[HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette

[Silverthorne]

{Laura}
I hardly think you would get thrown in jail for telling a 17 year old
to watch his mouth.  In fact, I can think of very little that would get
you in trouble with anyone (aside from physical violence, that is).


{Silverthorne}
All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it was 'abused' for an
adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. Even parents can be
penalized legally for giving their child a quick smack on the butt in public
if someone else sees it, and decides that they're witnessing 'child abuse'.
Hell, you can even be the 'wrong' (read: Wiccan for a friend of mine),
religion...and if the other locals around you decide 'that just ain't
right', at the very least they can call Child Services on you and have your
child(ren) removed from your home until an investigation is complete.

Not to mention the trouble you can get into with the parents for even
'daring' to look at thier child cross-eyed, no matter how obnoxious said
child is being. Having worked retail, picking up after kids whose parents do
not say so much as 'boo' to the 'adorable little tyke' that just pulled down
say, half a towel display and strewn it all over the place, believe
me--there's been times I've wanted to take matters into my own hands--both
with child AND careless parent. However, I can actually be taken in for
harassmen for it, thanks to how the newer laws are written...

{Laura}
Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were you?  'Cause,
gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?


{Silverthorne}
You know, sometimes, people NEED a good smack to set them straight--talking
just doesn't do it, and if you let them go on about thier business it only
gets worse. I doubt that's what Bumbledore was getting at here though--as
stated above, it's more likely frustration at knowing that chances are
ANYTHING s/he had tried would have resulted in more of an upheaval--the
usual problem with trying to deal with 'other people' and thier 'rights' as
they see them today.

{Laura}

I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own
generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously doubt
that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint their
parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the
model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get to be
the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.


{Silverthorne}

*sigh* You know, this accusation has been leveled between generations for
centuries. My question is this--if you are NOT one of the kids who would
have dreamed of being so rude, why are you getting so upset from an
observation that does not apply to you? Really, getting upset at the 'older
folks' won't solve anything...and actaully only gives fuel to add to the
fire...

As for the point being made, I have to agree that the standards in the world
for how people should treat each other is sadly deteriorating. MOst peopel
in the yougner generations really have no use for 'old fashioned' and 'out
of date' rituals and polite ways of dealing with people--No formal "Hello,
Mr./Mrs/Ms Jones, no gentleman holding doors for woman (and doing otehr
things that, quite frankly, did more than just 'put a woman in her
place'---such gestrues were actaully a wsign of respect for woman--a respect
in the way of "I respect you enough to take the time to take care of you),
even something so simple as 'what fork to use first' on a set table. We've
losta ll that...and the rituals that went with it, baout the time I was in
highschool.

NOw we have people who are independant, but rarely think of others unless it
directly affects them and thier immedaite surroundings. No one has patience
for anything, because, by god, they should be allowed to have it all RIGHT
NOW. NO one else has the right to say anything 'negative' to anyone else,
even if that 'negative' thing is actaully correct, because, Oh My GOD!
You;ve just been put down. And, one of the most immediate results of this
is...for example...."young kids who chatter on incessantly during live
performances, interrupting everything around them  because, hey, what's the
big deal, I;m just talking, right?"

Granted, there are 'kids' (AND adults) whoi do this every generation...but
it';s becoming more and more common place as we get furtehr and further form
the old societal rituals that used to govern such behaivior. Way back then,
you did that, you could EXPECT someone to come down on you (and rightfully
so). Now-adays, someone 'dares' to put you in your place, and you cna sue
them for harassment. Don't laugh--it's been done.


{Laura}
 You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  What
about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for homosexual
people tooth and claw?

What about a time when racism and sexism were still written into our
laws?  What about the society in which only middle and upper class
white boys had access to decent educations and jobs?  What about the
culture that thought it was perfectly okay to call homosexuality a
"disease"?


{Silverthorne}

Okay, first point on Homosexuality--that is more of an over all social
problem--it is effected, not so much by generational age (Although in older
generations, gays had thier own, hidden society that rarely saw the light of
day in order to protect their 'members' from the harsh laws and reaction
abcks then), but by RELIGIOUS ideas. It has been 'out of vogue'  since the
days of Sodom and Gamorra in the bible, and since Rome turned Christian in
reality. This is not a recent event...in fact, the 'awareness' for gay
rights started in the late 1800's or so, and became 'visible' sometime
during the 60's, if I remember correctly. It;s been a social AND religiousd
taboo for sop long, using it as an example for the 'sins' of the older
genrations is unfair. Not to mention, I hear justa s many 'kids' bemoaning
(and condemning) homosexuality, marriages for them, the mere fact that they
are 'In sight' as much as any older generation. That has not changed...it
probably won't for some time to come, simply because 'social norm' is STILL
very firmly entrenched in monogamous, heterosexual relationships.

Secondly, you're discounting that my generation, and my father's (I doubt
there's many people on this list older than my dad, who was born in 1945),
were the generations that started climbing out of racism, homo-hate and "the
Glass Ceiling". Thise laws are being written out--slowly but surely--but
we're the ones who started it, not the current crop of 10-25 year olds.

As for the homosexual 'disease'--sorry, but you cannot condemn a genration
who did not understand about genetics, DNA, predispositon, brain shape, and
the gene code that makes you tend towards a specific sexual orientation. All
of these bits of information are only a decade or so old at best, and some
have not even been conclusively proven yet. You might as well get mad at the
Greeks for not knowing about all the planets in the sky, or any number of
folk loric healers throughout the ages who based thier cures on superstation
because they did not have scientific fact to go on. Hell, we're only NOW
coming to grips with the idea that life can and DOES exist on some other
plaanet than ours--and doesn't that just blow the centuries old,
'mainstream' ideas of our place in the universe VIA the various holy texts
(you know, where this is the 'only' world, created by God...and we are the
only intelligent beings, made in his image, the chosen ones etc)...?


{Laura}
 (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand scheme of
things, thankyouverymuch.)

{Silverthorne}

Yes, you are, as a whole, doing well...for the most part...but you're stull
missing a lot of things that should have never been forgotten or shoved to
the wayside, including the ability to debate something like this discussion
without getting pissed off about it and taking it personally...^^

{Laura}

P.S. I hate talking in the theater too, in case anyone was wondering.

{Silverthorne}

Most polite people, broiught up with some idea of ettiquite do...including
myself. ^^.