Lit. major (Was: Carol's thread ...)

[ginnysthe1]

Kim wrote:
Is this a private conversation or can anyone join in...? ;-)  This 
was an interesting thread and instead of just lurking, I thought I'd 
add my two cents in case anyone was still listening...

Carol responded:
I don't know who named this thread after me, but it isn't a private 
conversation and anyone is welcome to join. I've retitled the thread 
to fit the topic.

Kim right now:
I didn't mean to be taken literally there, about joining in the 
conversation.  I tend to joke when I write and that was an 
opportunity to reword an old expression that I like.  Not everyone 
knows that expression perhaps, but those who do might be able to 
guess my ethnic background.  Anyhow thanks for the retitling, 
although the thread is still named after you, isn't it...?

Carol wrote earlier (to Luna):
A Marketing major with a Lit minor might not be bad--one for the job 
opportunities and the other for cultural and intellectual 
enrichment. . . .

Luna replied:
Yes, excellent idea ... Marketing major with a Lit minor.  I just did 
it all wrong when I went to school ... I let life interfere rather 
than staying focused on finishing my education. <snip>  I wonder if I 
could get my Masters in Lit?  Hhhmmmmmm ... I could get serious about 
that!  I love to write, but think I'm lousy at it, so further 
education would definitely be in order  :)

[After which Kim should have sandwiched in:
No, no, not a Marketing major!! What a way to kill your creativity... 
just kidding, sort of]

Carol replied (to Luna):
I think you need at least a minor in English to get into a masters 
lit program. But if your interest is in creative writing, you *might* 
get into a masters program by submitting a piece of creative writing 
that the faculty member in charge considered promising, but that's a 
long shot. A better bet might be an adult education program in 
creative writing--a lot more fun, a lot less pressure, and a whole 
lot cheaper.  Just a thought, as Steve says.

At last Kim added her own 22 cents:
After reading Luna's replies and already knowing Carol's posts from 
the HP canon discussion list, I'd venture to say that, college degree 
or not, writers show themselves, whether they realize it or not! As a 
reader, poster, and sometimes "critic" on the HP list, I'd say Luna 
already knows how to put sentences together pretty well.

Carol responded:
Yes, she does, but that's not what a creative writing program or a 
masters lit. program is about. The one teaches you specific 
techniques for writing fiction or poetry; the other focuses on 
literary criticism (analyzing literary works--modern or classic--that 
have already been written). Both types of programs *assume* that the 
student already knows how to put sentences (and paragraphs) together 
effectively.

Kim now:
I didn't mean to imply that putting sentences (and paragraphs) 
together well was all it took to be a writer, if that's what it 
seemed like I was saying, though it is a big part of being a good 
writer.  But neither is a good writer made by going through a 
creative writing or masters lit. program.  If you're really 
determined to write well, you don't *have* to attend such programs, 
do you?  Not everyone can afford them to start off with.  Not in this 
country (the U.S.) anyway.  I thought that's why you suggested Luna 
try adult ed. classes.  What if she could never afford more than 
that, should she just give up?

Kim wrote (to Luna):
So even if you decide to go back to school for a degree in 
literature, if you already love the idea of becoming a writer, 
whatever kind of writer you may become, by all means, go for it now, 
whenever you find the time.  That's what I do, anyway.  It's a great 
creative outlet if nothing else, and you never know where creative 
outlets can lead...  Besides, just think of JKR's website or read 
about her or other writers' habits -- you could try something like 
keeping a little notepad and pen in your pocket whenever you can.  If 
you see something that catches your fancy, if an interesting idea 
comes to mind, jot it down.  Come back to it later, read it again, 
add a little here and there, etc.  Pull out your pocket Roget's 
thesaurus to look up different words, pull out your pocket dictionary 
to look up meanings, whatever it takes.  Don't expect too much right 
away -- it's a little bit like planting a seed -- you wouldn't expect 
it to grow into a tree right away, would you.  Your creativity is 
like a seed.

Carol responds:
Sure, anyone can write fanfic, or a novel, for that matter, but not 
just anyone can get published. A creative writing course taught by a 
published writer would help you learn what works and what doesn't. 
You'd get feedback not only from the teacher but from your fellow 
students. Writers groups also provide feedback, and there are lots of 
online discussion groups as well.

Kim now:
Well, no, not anyone can write fanfic or a novel.  Or let me be 
specific, not anyone can write *good* fanfics or novels (of course, 
there's disagreement among various circles as to what's *good* and 
what's not).  I've written neither fanfic nor novel, not yet anyway.  
I was only trying to encourage Luna to go ahead and write, just take 
the plunge, for now.  I don't know what she wants for the future.  To 
publish a novel, write online fanfic, write cookbooks?  Or maybe to 
teach literature classes of her own?  In the few literature classes 
I've taken over the years (not to mention art and dance classes), 
it's sad to say that I received more discouragement than 
encouragement from people who probably shouldn't have been teaching 
in the first place.  So, buyer beware!  But, yes, if adult ed. or 
other sources offer affordable creative writing courses and she can 
find a writers group or online discussion group, go for it!  

Kim had written (to Luna):
Also you might want to consider some of the *great* writers of all 
times.  Abraham Lincoln, for example (no, I'm not kidding).  He never 
even went to college!  If you can find the Gettysburg Address online, 
you might want to read it as an example of beautiful writing (and 
it's short too).  Maybe not perfect, but very beautiful, IMO. You 
might look upon Old Abe as an inspiration.

Carol responded:
"Old Abe" was an autodidact who read the classics and picked up 
certain rhetorical devices, for example parallel structure ("of the 
people, by the people, for the people"), that he was able to apply in 
his own writing.  Not everyone has an ear for rhythm and alliteration.

Kim now:
Your point being...?  Yes, Lincoln was self-taught and so were a lot 
of other great writers (Charles Dickens, anyone?)  BTW, Carol, do you 
lean more toward criticism in your own writing?  Am I wrong to assume 
you don't like Abraham Lincoln or the way he writes?  If so, there 
are lots of people who would disagree.  But that's not the point 
either.   

Carol continued:
And to my knowledge, he didn't write fiction, which has different 
conventions altogether.

Kim again now:
I didn't say Lincoln did write fiction and that wasn't my point in 
using him as an example.  But those could be stumbling blocks for an 
aspiring creative writer, those old conventions...  (Off topic 
slightly, where do those conventions come from anyway?  I mean, who 
says!?  And have you ever read Jose Saramago, Bruno Schulz, James 
Joyce, to name a few?  They seem rather unconventional to me, but the 
way they write blows me away.  But what do I know, I wasn't a lit. 
major ;-))

Kim wrote:
Of course there are practical aspects to almost any pursuit, so going 
for a degree isn't a bad idea at all, and Carol's suggestion to try 
adult ed. classes is a good one.  You can learn a lot in them.  But 
til you do, why not use the intervening time to "practice"?   My 
guess is that Carol already had a natural talent for writing even 
before she went to university and got her degrees.

Carol responded:
Thank you! I did get A's in all my English classes and secretly wrote 
novels, which I kept under my pillow, when I was supposedly doing my  
math homework. But, um, we won't talk about that, as they're not 
exactly publishable!

Kim now:
OK, then I won't ask what you wrote about and why they aren't 
publishable...

Kim wrote:
If Luna hasn't been on the HP canon list and read Carol's posts there 
yet, she's missing something (and hey, I'm not buttering anyone up -- 
this post is essentially anonymous -- I've got nothing to gain or 
lose).

Carol responded:
Again, thank you! BTW, I've been away for four days and am trying to 
get caught up here. I don't suppose I'll ever get caught up on the 
main list.
[signed]
Carol, who should be editing a novel manuscript but has three weeks 
till her deadline

Kim finishes (to Carol):
I wish I could catch up on the main list too, but I gave up on that 
long ago [sigh].   And I'm glad you're taking time out from editing 
to do some creative online conversing!  

Kim (who thinks Carol should go back to writing her own novels, if 
for no other reason than pure pleasure... or spite)