From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep  1 00:29:46 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:29:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] LOONs and those who love them.
In-Reply-To: <ch2v2t+rusi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOEEHPDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

Steve, thanks for the ansor...and, yeah, I can be a nitpicker. :-)

It's much easier for me to get a quick answer like this than to wade through
gobs and gobs of pages of info and try to remember it...Remembering the HP
books is easier. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 03:05:10 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:05:10 -0000
Subject: Ideas for Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezies?
In-Reply-To: <ch0udh+3a6g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch3e96+bbrs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer Piersol" 
<jenP_97 at y...> wrote:
> 
> -- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "(Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is 
The
> Healing Force)" <n2fgc at a...> wrote:

> > [Lee]:
> > If I recall from Barty Jr.'s tale, his mother took polyjuice 
until
> she died
> > so she would be Junior, and Junior had taken the stuff to be his 
mom
> so his
> > dad could get him out.
> 
> Ack!  Amy missed Barty Jr.'s mom being polyjuiced as Barty!  Sign 
Lee
> up for L.O.O.N. membership!!!
> 
> -Jen, who is also a L.O.O.N., but read the post so fast that she
> didn't remember Barty and his mom, either...

Gee, it seems that it has been centuries-- in HP fan years-- since 
the the old League has been mentioned. Lee's call on Polyjuice in 
Azkaban certainly qualifies, Especially if Amy, a card-carrying 
L.O.O.N.y, missed it.

Haggridd, also certifiably L.O.O.N.y




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 03:06:47 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:06:47 -0000
Subject: Ideas for Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezies?
In-Reply-To: <ch1cgn+jvj7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch3ec7+ah7m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "eskcindy" <esk at e...> wrote:

> see it anymore, but it's called the $100,000 Bar. I think it's
> Nestl? that produces it. 

Sure is (by Nestle).  I can still hear the entire commercial jingle 
from the mid 70's when it came out.  Maybe it is in fun size for 
Halloween packs?

A.J.




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 03:09:35 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:09:35 -0000
Subject: Is it too early to ask about Halloween?  (It IS next month, technically!)
Message-ID: <ch3ehf+tkj3@eGroups.com>

Are you going in HP related costume?

Curious:  if so, will you be using the 'old style' or 'new style' 
uniform, or none (e.g. nonstudent wizard)?

Anyone going to relevant events or planning them, in HP garb?

A.J.  (there were lots of Hogwarts students running around Greater 
Boston last year... all houses... I think I will choose 'old style' 
for wider recognition, though I have the new tie...)

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/ajl/hp.html




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep  1 03:35:15 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:35:15 -0400
Subject: Nestles and Memories
In-Reply-To: <ch3ec7+ah7m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOEEIADDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

[A.J. wrote]:

| Sure is (by Nestle).  I can still hear the entire commercial jingle
| from the mid 70's when it came out.  Maybe it is in fun size for
| Halloween packs?

[Lee]:
ROTFL! Just so happens I was listening to recordings of old commercials I
had gotten years ago from a studio which was donating tape to a radio
reading service at which my brother worked.  One of the recordings was the
"Nestles Hundred-Thousand-Dollar Bar" commercial, and I remember how I loved
the chords to it.  They gave it a slightly majestic feel...almost classical.
:-)

Ah--memories!  And I've got a whole MP3 CD of stuff I just got from a very
dear friend while on my vacation of radio jingles from the '60's that
brought tears of memory to my eyes. <Grinning Hugely!>

Cheers,

Lee :-)





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep  1 03:47:35 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:47:35 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Ideas for Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezies?
In-Reply-To: <ch3e96+bbrs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOOEIADDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

[Haggridd writes]:

| Gee, it seems that it has been centuries-- in HP fan years-- since
| the the old League has been mentioned. Lee's call on Polyjuice in
| Azkaban certainly qualifies, Especially if Amy, a card-carrying
| L.O.O.N.y, missed it.
|
| Haggridd, also certifiably L.O.O.N.y

[Lee, chuckling]:

I think the L.O.O.N. was Jen, not Amy. :-)

Ah--well, it's nice to be included into such an august league... <Lee bows
and curtseys.>  I only hope I do honor to the league of LOONs.

Now, shall we sit about the Common Room fire and share chocolate froggies?
:-)

Cheers,
Lee :-)
(Who finally got her friend's computer to behave!!)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep  1 03:55:04 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:55:04 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Is it too early to ask about Halloween?  (It IS
 next month, technically!)
In-Reply-To: <ch3ehf+tkj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOEEIBDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

Okay, along these lines...where can I find a good but not really expensive
authentic-type Hogwarts-type robe & hat?  I made a hat out of brown
naugahyde and used a black pull-over robe last year that was very cheap and
looked it.  I had to do the hemming and finishing myself.

Please, any suggestions welcome...even a decent pattern would do, but the
already-made thing preferred as I think I'll have a bit of sewing to do with
an upcoming Barbershop show.

Cheers,
Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From captain_suburbia at yahoo.com.au  Wed Sep  1 03:55:51 2004
From: captain_suburbia at yahoo.com.au (captain_suburbia)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:55:51 -0000
Subject: melbourne/tupperware/tom robbins PLUS  some HP stuff
In-Reply-To: <CGEKJJCJGOLNJLCPJCJJIELJCPAA.miss_megan@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <ch3h87+ge3j@eGroups.com>

Apologies for the delay in my reply; just moved house, so the home
computer's not up and running again as yet, and my damned boss seems
to want me to WORK while I'm here!  (What a fascist!)

HumanTupperware:
> Yes, I am indeed Australian, and find the aussie HPFGU list quite
slow.......

Captain Suburbia:
Yes, me too.  I hooked up there some time ago, but didn't really find
it too engaging.  But, I suppose, if I took part in it I'd help
alleviate that, wouldn't I? :)

HumanTupperware: 
> This thread is getting rather personal now, so sorry to those who
are finding 
> this boring, 

Captain Suburbia:
Yes, I was conscious of this, too, but it IS the Off-Topic site, I
suppose....

HumanTupperware:
>....but I wanted to let you know that right at this very moment I am 
> working on some paintings loosely based on Skinny Legs and All.........
> 
> aaaahhhhhh....synchronicity..........


Captain Suburbia:
Fabulous!  My series (12 years ago now) was based on Still Life with
Woodpecker - really enjoyed how he pulled apart the design of the
Camel cigarette packets, so I included a lot of those elements in the
paintings.  Good on you!  Paint on!

Storm:
storm, who is living in sydney, australia and just loves that joke despite
the fact that a. it's really really poxy, b. done to death and c. a total
one liner but is also loving the thread. Although I don't remember any
Tupperware parties I do remember the icy pole things and in fact my
g/f has
some which come out in summer .. and we still chew on the little stick.

Captain Suburbia:
"Poxy" is such a great word!  Ten points to (insert house of your
choice) for that one.  And another ten for chewing on the icy pole
stick.  One of the beauties of being an adult is that you can do these
things without having to answer to your mum. ;)


So, back ON to the main topic.  What do you get out of the HP books? 
Any particular favorite bits, characters, etc?  Favorite theories?  I
know these are broad questions, but I'm keen to get back into a bit of
HP theory - any takers?

Burbs




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 05:39:05 2004
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 3 More August Birthdays!
Message-ID: <20040901053905.67225.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, it's still August. No, not here, but somewhere.
:)

*turns around and finishes hanging the fairy lights*

If someone will help me bring in the sandwiches and
cakes, we can finish this month off with a wild party.
I'm sure the neighbours won't mind if we crank up the
music. ;-)

The last 3 August birthda honourees are Dee
(gypsycaine), James and Nina. Birthday owls can be
sent care of this list or directly to Dee at:
gypsycaine at neo.rr.com, to James at:
biggypaw at yahoo.com, and to Nina at: teencbis at yahoo.com

I hope you've all had magical days, filled with fun
and lots of HP goodness.

Happy Birthday, Dee!
Happy Birthday, James!
Happy Birthday, Nina!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf, making her last birthday
greeting post

=====
Convention Alley rocked! Were *you* there?
http://www.conventionalley.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/community/conventionalley/
http://www.cafeshops.com/conalley 





______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 05:46:41 2004
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:46:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Birthday Elf Retirement and New Birthday Elf
Message-ID: <20040901054641.66021.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

It is with great regret that I tell you all that I'm
retiring as the HPFGU Birthday Elf. I've had a lot of
fun decorating the room, baking cakes and wishing
everyone Happy Birthday. Other time commitments mean
that I have to hand the reins over to a new Birthday
Elf.

I want to thank everyone who made this job so much fun
and ask you all to please welcome Rynne, our new
Birthday Elf!

Sheryll

=====
Convention Alley rocked! Were *you* there?
http://www.conventionalley.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/community/conventionalley/
http://www.cafeshops.com/conalley 





______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Sep  1 11:52:25 2004
From: humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au (humantupperware1)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:52:25 -0000
Subject: JK's website(NOT about the door!)
Message-ID: <ch4d5p+cc86@eGroups.com>

hello there everyone.....

I was wondering if anyone else here is having trouble with the news and 
rumours section of JK's website....

For a while now, whenever I go to the news page or the rumours page, the 
information doesn't load up. I get the ads running down the bottom for brooms 
and wands etc but no info! ggggrrrrrrrrrr........

I know the news page has been updated with the Edinburgh Festival 
transcript, but I haven't been able to get it to load since the update.

any ideas? I've tried different windows, and typing the address in rather than 
going through the "favourites" option......no luck. 

can anyone help me on this? Or is is happening to everyone? 

cheers!


HumanTupperware

 




From asian_lovr2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 12:36:50 2004
From: asian_lovr2 at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:36:50 -0000
Subject: JK's website(NOT about the door!)
In-Reply-To: <ch4d5p+cc86@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch4fp2+9b32@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "humantupperware1"
<humantupperware1 at y...> wrote:
> hello there everyone.....
> 
> I was wondering if anyone else here is having trouble with the news and 
> rumours section of JK's website....
> 
>
> any ideas? I've tried different windows, and typing the address in
rather 
> than going through the "favourites" option......no luck. 
> 
> can anyone help me on this? Or is is happening to everyone? 
> 
> cheers!
> 
> 
> HumanTupperware


Asian_lovr2:

Try using the TextOnly version, it loads a lot faster, and with a few
small exceptions is the same as the FLASH/Shockwave site.

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/welcome.cfm

I use the 'test only' about 95% of the time, only checking the graphic
version when I hear there is something new like the Magic Door opening.

Steve/asian_lovr2





From sherriola at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  1 13:11:50 2004
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:11:50 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] JK's website(NOT about the door!)
In-Reply-To: <ch4d5p+cc86@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001601c49025$3f086140$0400a8c0@pensive>

Hi,

If you go to the text only site, it seems to be working just fine.  The
address is

www.jkr.com/textonly

sherry


-----Original Message-----
From: humantupperware1 [mailto:humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 5:52 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] JK's website(NOT about the door!)


hello there everyone.....

I was wondering if anyone else here is having trouble with the news and 
rumours section of JK's website....

For a while now, whenever I go to the news page or the rumours page, the 
information doesn't load up. I get the ads running down the bottom for
brooms 
and wands etc but no info! ggggrrrrrrrrrr........

I know the news page has been updated with the Edinburgh Festival 
transcript, but I haven't been able to get it to load since the update.

any ideas? I've tried different windows, and typing the address in rather
than 
going through the "favourites" option......no luck. 

can anyone help me on this? Or is is happening to everyone? 

cheers!


HumanTupperware

 




________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Sep  1 16:01:40 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:01:40 -0000
Subject: Sex from both sides (was Re: Ideas for Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezies?)
In-Reply-To: <cgvjcf+10bd9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch4rp4+euf4@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

Sorry I've arrived late at this thread and sorry for lowering the 
tone.

Kizor wrote:
>>> Were you in the position to come up with some enchanted novelty 
items, what'd you give to the wizarding community? [snip] some 
initial examples [snip] candy that makes the eater change gender for 
a few seconds <<<

I agree with Amy that a few seconds wouldn't be enough. Surely the 
thing that you'd want to try would be sex. What are the differences 
and similarities between the way men and women experience physical 
love at a physical, emotional, and intellectual level? I would so 
enjoy swapping minds with my partner for an evening, as long as I 
retained the ability to recall and reflect on the experience 
afterwards. Sex is such a big part of our emotional lives that 
experiencing it from both `sides' would be truly wonderful.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.

PS Perhaps a few seconds would be long enough for some ;-)




From firedancerflash at comcast.net  Wed Sep  1 18:43:12 2004
From: firedancerflash at comcast.net (Firedancer)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:43:12 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Nestles and Memories
References: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOEEIADDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <00ac01c49053$8945e100$e60b8f45@Voov>

Boy, wouldn't I love to hear those things again, and I'm still addicted to
those candy bars.  June
None but the piper keeps up with the dancer!
   Siempre revelde!!
June




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 22:04:19 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:04:19 -0000
Subject: Is it too early to ask about Halloween?  (It IS next month, technically!)
In-Reply-To: <ch3ehf+tkj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch5h13+7iie@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> 
wrote:
> Are you going in HP related costume?
> 
> Curious:  if so, will you be using the 'old style' or 'new style' 
> uniform, or none (e.g. nonstudent wizard)?
> 
> Anyone going to relevant events or planning them, in HP garb?
> 
> A.J.  (there were lots of Hogwarts students running around Greater 
> Boston last year... all houses... I think I will choose 'old 
style' for wider recognition, though I have the new tie...)
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/ajl/hp.html

*****\(@@)/*****

I found a catalogue that has some neat costumes and there is an HP 
costume for an adult. I am sure you get what you pay for but the 
pricing isn't too bad...

http://www.shindigz.com/catalog.cfm?caid=271447

There are also a lot of other really neat stuff here too.

Anyone who needs suggestions on costuming Madam Malkins group is 
also another very nice bunch of people who love to help out...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MadameMalkins/

Hope this helps anyone looking for some costuming stuff....

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 22:23:24 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:23:24 -0000
Subject: Is it too early to ask about Halloween?  (It IS next month, technically!)
In-Reply-To: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOEEIBDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <ch5i4s+51rl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "(Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The 
Healing Force)" <n2fgc at a...> wrote:
> Okay, along these lines...where can I find a good but not really 
expensive
> authentic-type Hogwarts-type robe & hat? 

Hm, I've seen them already at costume stores (from WB) and online (WB 
shop, Alivans) but I would just make a velvet cone, if you want 
something inexpensive-- hogwarts minipatches at patchpalace.com

A.J.

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/ajl/hp.html




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  1 22:34:03 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 22:34:03 -0000
Subject: Is it too early to ask about Halloween?  (It IS next month, technically!)
In-Reply-To: <ch5h13+7iie@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch5ior+l40r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dudemom_2000" 
<dudemom_2000 at y...> wrote:

> I found a catalogue that has some neat costumes and there is an HP 
> costume for an adult. I am sure you get what you pay for but the 
> pricing isn't too bad...

OK, maybe I too should share my knowledge.  (I hand made my first 
costume elements from scratch, but now it's really easy.)
(pic of Hufflepuff/Ravenclaw costumes I made last year on 
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/ajl/hp.html)

Excellent embroidered patches of every Hogwarts flavor imaginable:
www.patchpalace.com
Robes:  
Old style: alivans.com   
New style: http://wizardshack.com/hogwarts_school_robe.html
Custom Robes, scarves: http://www.garbtheworld.com/items/g0026.shtml
Wands, Ties, old and new style, and scarves, old style: alivans.com
Sweaters/vests/scarves/Quidditch old and new styles: 
http://www.wizardknits.com
Hogwarts book bag: http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?
LS=0&ITEM=139288&RN=1.#QNAN
Harry glasses: http://www.hollywood-costumes.com/cgi-
bin/store/perlshop.cgi?action=ENTER&thispage=hollywood-
potter.htm&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID! (item 2076)

Hope this helps us all look better when we meet in the future!  >:)

A.J.






From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu Sep  2 05:39:43 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:39:43 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
Message-ID: <ch6bmv+nqf9@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

In post 106761 over on HPfGU ( 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/106761 ) CDR 
speculated that the two eggs given to Hagrid (Norbert and Aragog) 
were linked. And I wondered in a follow-up post if the egg giver was 
Voldemort's prophesy informer from The Hogs Head, and if they might 
also be the Half Blood Prince.

Well here's a quiz for you. 

Let's call the mystery character Estel, since that is his name in 
Sindarin. Who is he? Here are some more clues.

1) He is a well travelled character who one first meets in a pub 
where the locals are very wary of him.
2) He is a character who is mainly human but is also part elf, thus 
he is a half-blood.
3) He is a character whose father was a king, thus he is a prince.
4) He is a character who has fought in many battles in lands near 
dragons and giant spiders, and would thus have access to eggs of 
either species.

The serious draw-back to my proposal that Estel is the Half Blood 
Prince is that he appears in the wrong book series: 
http://tinyurl.com/5cbua :-(

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From tigerlily_e at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  2 05:49:51 2004
From: tigerlily_e at hotmail.com (Kathryn)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:49:51 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch6bmv+nqf9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch6c9v+i4nr@eGroups.com>

I know! I know!

It's Elessar, the Dunedan! He who is called Telcontar, the head of 
that household! He who is Hope, where there is none left! *claps*

-TL, who apologizes for posting without introduction. Hiii!




From lists at heidi8.com  Thu Sep  2 10:07:19 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:07:19 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch6bmv+nqf9@eGroups.com>
References: <ch6bmv+nqf9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1094119643.329BFD73@w5.dngr.org>


On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 1:39am, Tim Regan wrote:
> Hi All,
In post 106761 over on HPfGU (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/106761 ) CDR
speculated that the two eggs given to Hagrid (Norbert and Aragog)
were linked. And I wondered in a follow-up post if the egg giver was
Voldemort's prophesy informer from The Hogs Head, and if they might
also be the Half Blood Prince.

But we know from Book 1 that the Norbert_egg came from quirrel, and we 
know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the Hog's Head 
informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth. And that unfortunately 
knocks two of your suppositions out - although, I guess it is possible 
that Albus & Aberforth are half-bloods, which would explain ssome of 
Riddle's resentment...



From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu Sep  2 10:45:59 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:45:59 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Estel is the Half Blood Prince
Message-ID: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15F48411@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com>

Hi All,

Heidi pointed out:
>>> we know from Book 1 that the Norbert_egg came from quirrel <<<
Do we? Harry and Hagrid certainly assume that it was Quirrellmort under
the hood, but could it have been someone who then reported the
information to Quirrellmort?

Heidi also pointed out:
>>> we know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the Hog's
Head informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth <<<
Wow. I'd missed that entirely. Thanks. There's so much new canon at the
moment <insert sound of Dumbledad's brain exploding>.

But, as TL pointed out, Estel does seem to collect names: Aragorn,
Estel, Strider, Thorongil, and Elessar, so perhaps Aberforth is his name
when he's in our lands. His mum, Gilraen, was anxious to keep his
identity a secret so that he wouldn't be killed as his father and
grandfather were. Perhaps she did an even better job of hiding his
brother Albus. She did such a good job that Albus is not mentioned in
any of Tolkien's works. Mind you, I always assumed Albus was older than
Aberforth, so Aberforth could not really claim to be king of Gondor. Do
the HP books say which Dumbledore brother is the eldest?

However, being trapped in the wrong book is a pretty insurmountable
hurdle. Have you heard the Monty Python sketch "Stake Your Claim"? I
feel like I'm in it.

Cheers,

Tim.

PS If I finish the analysis I'm working on in time to submit it as a
paper to Accio 2005, and if it is accepted, then you can hear Monty
Python's "Stake Your Claim" sketch as it forms part of my presentation
(at least it did when I gave a preliminary version of the talk at work).



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Sep  2 12:59:34 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 12:59:34 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <1094119643.329BFD73@w5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <ch75fm+129v@eGroups.com>

Heidi wrote:

> we 
> know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the Hog's 
Head 
> informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth. 

Que?  I have just been through the version on the text-only pages 
and I don't see that.  Am I being exceptionally unobservant?

Can someone provide me with a quote, please?

David




From swartell at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  2 13:12:02 2004
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:12:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15F48411@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20040902131202.21956.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tim Regan <timregan at microsoft.com> wrote:


> However, being trapped in the wrong book is a pretty
> insurmountable
> hurdle.

It's a job for Thursday Next!  If you haven't read any
of Jasper Fforde's series, and you want your mind bent
around corners, try them.  I hesitate to recommend
them, because they are quite strange, though I don't
think there is anything offensive in them (unless the
notion of Miss Haversham as a mentor and a dodo as a
pet and the erasure of characters really bothers
you...)

Sue 


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Sep  2 13:50:05 2004
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 13:50:05 -0000
Subject: Who was that masked man? wasRe: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <1094119643.329BFD73@w5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <ch78ed+d1d9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy 
<lists at h...> wrote:
.
> 
> But we know from Book 1 that the Norbert_egg came from 
quirrel, <

Pippin:
We know that it came from a card-playing stranger who kept his 
hood up. Has this person ever been positively identified as 
Quirrell? You'd think Hagrid would recognize Quirrell, even with a 
hood on. Especialy if he was wearing it over a turban!


Heidi:
and we  know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the 
Hog's Head informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth.

Pippin supplies the canon:
>>Ooh?you are getting good. Why do you think that it is 
Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of 
goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of 
that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, 
obviously. I like the goat clue?I sniggered to myself about that 
one.<<

Pippin





From SongBird3411 at aol.com  Thu Sep  2 13:51:14 2004
From: SongBird3411 at aol.com (SongBird3411 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 13:51:14 -0000
Subject: A major accomplishment
Message-ID: <ch78gi+bqpv@eGroups.com>

Hello all!  I just wanted to announce something truly amazing.  
Thanks to a few days worth of insomnia I am finally caught up on the 
main HPfGU list.  That is correct, you heard me.  I am caught up at 
the main list.  See, even insomnia has its bright side.

I also wanted to comment about JKR's site.  Someone previously 
remarked that the news and rumors sections weren't loading properly.  
This happened to me last week.  I just closed the site down entirely 
then went back.  It seemed to work the second time.  Shrug.  I have 
no idea what the problem is.  I would suggest exiting the site and 
then opening it again.  If that doesn't work, I too would say try the 
text only form.

Mindy
who is slightly reeling from reading a months worth of main list 
posts in 4 nights.




From spin01 at aol.com  Thu Sep  2 14:10:50 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:10:50 -0000
Subject: Who was that masked man? wasRe: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch78ed+d1d9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch79la+4ebn@eGroups.com>

Ok so I have read the Entire Edenurough thing and it does not 
say "Aberforth is the hogs head keeper" it says oh I liked that clue 
etc and I am proud of myself etc.  It does nto say that is who it 
is.  She is famous for giving out clues that really lead to a totally 
different place.  
sherry
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy 
> <lists at h...> wrote:
> .
> > 
> > But we know from Book 1 that the Norbert_egg came from 
> quirrel, <
> 
> Pippin:
> We know that it came from a card-playing stranger who kept his 
> hood up. Has this person ever been positively identified as 
> Quirrell? You'd think Hagrid would recognize Quirrell, even with a 
> hood on. Especialy if he was wearing it over a turban!
> 
> 
> Heidi:
> and we  know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the 
> Hog's Head informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth.
> 
> Pippin supplies the canon:
> >>Ooh?you are getting good. Why do you think that it is 
> Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of 
> goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of 
> that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well 
yes, 
> obviously. I like the goat clue?I sniggered to myself about that 
> one.<<
> 
> Pippin




From garybec at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  2 16:23:47 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:23:47 -0000
Subject: Who was that masked man? wasRe: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch79la+4ebn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch7hej+3g54@eGroups.com>


> > Heidi:
> > and we  know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that 
the 
> > Hog's Head informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth.
> > 
> > Pippin supplies the canon:
> > >>Ooh?you are getting good. Why do you think that it is 
> > Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of 
> > goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of 
> > that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well 
> yes, 
> > obviously. I like the goat clue?I sniggered to myself about that 
> > one.<<
> > 
> > Pippin

Becki here;

Actually the clue is for the barkeeper, not the informant that got 
thrown out.  Perhaps the barkeep is the one that did the throwing 
though.
Becki




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Sep  2 16:26:35 2004
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:26:35 -0000
Subject: Who was that masked man? wasRe: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch79la+4ebn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch7hjr+4lop@eGroups.com>

Sherry:
> Ok so I have read the Entire Edenurough thing and it does not 
> say "Aberforth is the hogs head keeper" it says oh I liked that 
clue  etc and I am proud of myself etc.  It does nto say that is who 
it  is.  She is famous for giving out clues that really lead to a 
totally  different place.  <

I am the last to deny that JKR gives tricky answers. But how do 
you interpret "Well yes, obviously." as tricky? 

You think she was saying, "Obviously, I am proud of the clue 
because it made you all think of Aberforth, when it's really a red 
herring?'  

For a clue to be a proper red herring, you should also be able 
to draw the correct but counter-intuitive conclusion from the text, 
which is why JKR was so apologetic about Mark Evans. 

If the resemblance to Aberforth is a red herring, she needs to put 
some indication in the text as to why Aberforth might not be the 
bartender in the Hogshead.  Otherwise, it's not a proper red 
herring and JKR has no reason to be proud of it.

Pippin






From asian_lovr2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  2 17:57:34 2004
From: asian_lovr2 at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 17:57:34 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch75fm+129v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch7mue+8f8q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley"
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Heidi wrote:
> 
> > we know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the Hog's
> > Head **informant** is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth. 

> David:
> 
> Que?  I have just been through the version on the text-only pages 
> and I don't see that.  Am I being exceptionally unobservant?
> 
> Can someone provide me with a quote, please?
> 
> David

Asian_lovr2:

Not quite....

Aberforth, Dumbledore's brother, is the /barman/, not the informant.

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80

Lindsey Fraser: Q: Why is the barman of the Hog's Head vaguely
familiar to Harry? Is he Dumbledore's brother?

JKR: A: Ooh?you are getting good. Why do you think that it is
Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he
looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is
all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like
the goat clue?I sniggered to myself about that one.

Not sure how much difference it make to the overal discussion, but
there you have it.

Steve/asian_lovr (was bboy_mn)







From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  2 19:08:13 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:08:13 -0000
Subject: Hurricane acoming again...
Message-ID: <ch7r2t+46hh@eGroups.com>

Hey guys and gals there is another Hurricane acoming
again and it is a category 4 hurricane. Her name is
Frances. All the projections from the weater
forcasters have her coming over us in Tampa but as a
category 1 by the time she gets here in Sundat at 8am.
I just hope she goes away from us like Charley did the
last time. Its frightening to see her out there so big
as a category 4. I been watching the news and see a
lot of people who went through Charley crying on the
tv because they are scared and dont want to go through
another one after weeks. A lot of people are going up
North so they dont have to ride out the storm. Im
thinking it the same thing. Hey Carmen can we come to
Indiana and stay with you? My dog and cat are sweet
and they wont fight with your animals. 
Well I gotta go now and get things ready for the storm
so I might not be online this weeked if it does come
our way. On Friday I might have to go to no mail which
I dont want to but probably will. Please pray for us
FLoridans here while we go through another storm.

Tasha




From michel56 at earthlink.net  Thu Sep  2 19:22:50 2004
From: michel56 at earthlink.net (Michele)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:22:50 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...
Message-ID: <00da01c49122$3cddc920$bb736e18@earthlink.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Tasha 
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:08 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...


Hey guys and gals there is another Hurricane acoming
again and it is a category 4 hurricane. Her name is
Frances. All the projections from the weater
forcasters have her coming over us in Tampa but as a
category 1 by the time she gets here in Sundat at 8am.
I just hope she goes away from us like Charley did the
last time. Its frightening to see her out there so big.......<snip>

Tasha


Michele now:

Hey, Tasha,
Well, I know how you feel, and at least you are on the far side this time.  I am on the east coast, and in line for a direct hit.  I have accepted the fact that I most likely will lose my house.  It is just that big of a storm, and that strong. Not much can survive 145 mph winds.

Que sera, sera... but heck, if it would please just pass me by, I'd be okay with that, too...  I do so like my home... ;o)

I've been packing up things I'd like to "try" to keep, and of course my Harry Potter books went into the box, first... gotta have Harry with me!

Stay safe!
Best,
Michele




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu Sep  2 21:12:01 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:12:01 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch7mue+8f8q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch82b1+i6as@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

Becki wrote:
>>> Actually the clue is for the barkeeper, not the informant that 
got thrown out. Perhaps the barkeep is the one that did the throwing 
though. <<<

Steve wrote:
>>> Aberforth, Dumbledore's brother, is the /barman/, not the 
informant. [snip] Not sure how much difference it makes to the 
overall discussion, but there you have it. <<<

It makes tons of difference. I can now reassert that Estel is the 
Half Blood Prince, Hagrid's egg supplier, and Volde's Hog's Head 
informant without also having to prove that he is Aberforth. Let's 
face it, that was a weak part of my argument. Having lots of names 
doesn't make you Albus' brother; if it did then Prince Charles must 
be Aberforth Dumbledore since he has got loads of names. Hang on 
though, *Prince* Charles, he's a prince. And his dad's Greek while 
his mum's English, which makes him a half-blood. Forget strider, I 
now assert that Prince Charles is the Half Blood Prince, supplier of 
Hagrid's dangerous eggs, and Volde's informant. Anyone know if they 
keep goats at Highgrove? If so, I'll throw in being Aberforth too, 
for good measure.

But seriously 
 no, sorry, I can't think of anything serious to add!

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From lysandrabellargus at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep  2 21:13:54 2004
From: lysandrabellargus at yahoo.co.uk (Sandra)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:13:54 -0000
Subject: 'magic' used in real life
Message-ID: <ch82ei+gvgk@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I just wanted to share some experience of 
`things learned from HP' used in real life.

Last Saturday I had kind of a bad day, and it seemed that my life 
just was not going well or to be more precise that I did not have the 
nerve to face things and take good choices. 

Anyway, I remembered HP and the dementors, and than I tried 
an `Expecto Patronum'.

Gosh, what a difficult spell, if you are NOT rehearsing it in a nice 
class-room with all your friends around. But hey, in the end it did 
work, although I did not produce a corporal one, I have to admit, but 
that's for my next attempt. The crucial thing, and, as far as I
know, psychologist and therapists would agree, is the really happy
thought


And after that I remembered Lupin and Madam Pomfrey and thought some 
chocolate would be good after this effort.
It took a bit of imagination to turn the `Duplo' (a German
sweet, looking like a very long praline) into a chocolate frog, but 
there was no better option around (and the serotonine did what its 
said to do).

I guess other people have similar experiences and I would be very 
interested to hear of more `magic' in RL.

I for one, was once more really thankful to JKR and HP!

Sandra





From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  2 21:49:48 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:49:48 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince/Thursday Next
In-Reply-To: <20040902131202.21956.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ch84hs+81tg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sue Wartell <swartell at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- Tim Regan <timregan at m...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > However, being trapped in the wrong book is a pretty
> > insurmountable hurdle.
> 
> It's a job for Thursday Next!  If you haven't read any
> of Jasper Fforde's series, and you want your mind bent
> around corners, try them.  I hesitate to recommend
> them, because they are quite strange, though I don't
> think there is anything offensive in them (unless the
> notion of Miss Haversham as a mentor and a dodo as a
> pet and the erasure of characters really bothers
> you...)
> 
> Sue 

*****\(@@)/*****

Hurray Sue! 

You are the first I have seen that has read the Thursday Next 
series. I just loved them! Sort of like Monty Python hits paper with 
puncutuation! For me it was also the Mamoth migrations and 
the 'Thals' that got me. They also have the Toast Board and the 
Goliath Corporation.....

May the Grammisites never get us and that we keep our toes out of 
the Text Sea!

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Sep  2 23:10:52 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 23:10:52 -0000
Subject: Aberforth the mole? (was Estel is the Half Blood Prince)
In-Reply-To: <ch7mue+8f8q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch899s+d10p@eGroups.com>

Heidi wrote:
> > 
> > > we know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the 
Hog's
> > > Head **informant** is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth. 

Steve:

> Not quite....
> 
> Aberforth, Dumbledore's brother, is the /barman/, not the 
informant.

(Quote from transcript snipped)

Thank you, Steve - as far as I'm concerned you confirmed my 
reading.  However, that doesn't quite put it to bed as Heidi has 
contacts (via LJ and TLC) who were actually present at the reading, 
and I just want to be sure that it's not something that's not in the 
transcript.

Heidi?

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep  3 00:05:10 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:05:10 -0000
Subject: Who was that masked man?
In-Reply-To: <ch78ed+d1d9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch8cfm+fds5@eGroups.com>

I feel my previous post covered this in essence, but just to be 
absolutely clear:

Heidi wrote:

> and we  know now from jkr's talk in Edinburgh last month that the 
> Hog's Head informant is Dumbledore's brother Aberforth.

Pippin supplies the canon:

> >>Ooh?you are getting good. Why do you think that it is 
> Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of 
> goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of 
> that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well 
yes, 
> obviously. I like the goat clue?I sniggered to myself about that 
> one.<<

Pippin, that is indeed canon, but it does not support Heidi's 
claim.  The Hog's Head informant (and, in the context of this 
thread, putative Acromantula egg salesman) is the person who told 
Voldemort part of the prophecy, and, while we can't be sure 
(Voldemort may have captured and interrogated an innocent), is 
presumably a DE or at least a sympathiser.  For Aberforth, a known 
Order member, to be revealed as such would be a major major 
revelation - fandom would be buzzing with it: "Dumbledore's brother 
a Death Eater - wow!"  It seems out of keeping with JKR's approach 
to pre-publication teasers, too.

Hence my desire to pin Heidi down on this one.

I think that the identification of Aberforth as the barman, however, 
is pretty well accepted by everyone by now.

David




From redina at silverbloom.net  Fri Sep  3 00:01:32 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:01:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...
In-Reply-To: <ch7r2t+46hh@eGroups.com>
References: <ch7r2t+46hh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <2340.4.12.232.16.1094169692.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Tasha said:

> Hey guys and gals there is another Hurricane acoming
> again and it is a category 4 hurricane. Her name is
> Frances. All the projections from the weater
> forcasters have her coming over us in Tampa but as a

Are you in a mobile home or some other easier to destroy place?  I've
resided in Florida for nearly twenty-five years, and depending on the
building, a cat-1 isn't that bad (not good but... )--though, some caution
is good.  However, I do have concern for folks who are getting it worse. 
Heidi (FA/TLC) is in south Florida and she just mentioned she was
evacuating.

History of some hurricane paths:
http://www.fpl.com/storm/contents/hurricane_history.shtml

Additional stats on hurricane history:
http://hurricane.weathercenter.com/guide/history.htm

The Tampa Bay area is usually spared many of the hurricanes--South Florida
isn't as fortunate.

As to getting ready for the storm, I'm not worried for myself.  Somewhere
between weeks of depression, cleaning out twenty years of junk (six
garbage bags full and I'm still not even half finished), bodily wear and
tear... I'd rather just sleep through this... and probably will based on
ETA for hitting this area.

Dina

--
"I swear he's got a pu**y, Orlando Bloom. Either that or he's a
hermaphrodite. It's one of the two! Who the hell wants to walk
around with someone who's prettier than you if you're a woman?"
- actor, Johnny Messner  (I wonder if he reads slash fic)




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  3 00:19:39 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:19:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...
In-Reply-To: <2340.4.12.232.16.1094169692.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <20040903001939.22452.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>

I live in a apartment complex and I think I might leave if it comes near us. Im more worried about my fiances mother since she lives near the beach on St. Pete.
 
Tasha

Dina Lerret <redina at silverbloom.net> wrote:
Tasha said:

> Hey guys and gals there is another Hurricane acoming
> again and it is a category 4 hurricane. Her name is
> Frances. All the projections from the weater
> forcasters have her coming over us in Tampa but as a

Are you in a mobile home or some other easier to destroy place?  I've
resided in Florida for nearly twenty-five years, and depending on the
building, a cat-1 isn't that bad (not good but... )--though, some caution
is good.  However, I do have concern for folks who are getting it worse. 
Heidi (FA/TLC) is in south Florida and she just mentioned she was
evacuating.

History of some hurricane paths:
http://www.fpl.com/storm/contents/hurricane_history.shtml

Additional stats on hurricane history:
http://hurricane.weathercenter.com/guide/history.htm

The Tampa Bay area is usually spared many of the hurricanes--South Florida
isn't as fortunate.

As to getting ready for the storm, I'm not worried for myself.  Somewhere
between weeks of depression, cleaning out twenty years of junk (six
garbage bags full and I'm still not even half finished), bodily wear and
tear... I'd rather just sleep through this... and probably will based on
ETA for hitting this area.

Dina

--
"I swear he's got a pu**y, Orlando Bloom. Either that or he's a
hermaphrodite. It's one of the two! Who the hell wants to walk
around with someone who's prettier than you if you're a woman?"
- actor, Johnny Messner  (I wonder if he reads slash fic)



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From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Fri Sep  3 02:08:14 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (rynne_lupin)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 02:08:14 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Meg Rose!
Message-ID: <ch8jme+7blp@eGroups.com>

*pops in with a puff of smoke, beaming*  Hello all!  I'm very happy 
and excited to be your new birthday elf--I've always loved a good 
party, and with the birthdays of all these wonderful people, there's 
bound to be some /great/ parties.

So, I'm here to start off the month of September with the birthday of 
Meg Rose!  Birthday wishes should be owled to her at 
megrose_13 at yahoo.com--make it a wonderful day for her!

Now, let's see where Sheryll put all the decorations...*rummages 
around cupboards* Ah, here they are!  Now let's just roll out these 
streamers...

*pops out and then quickly pops back in with a big cake*

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MEG ROSE!

May your day be filled with lots of HP goodness. :)

--Rynny the new Birthday Elf




From humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au  Fri Sep  3 11:20:34 2004
From: humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au (humantupperware1)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:20:34 -0000
Subject: hurricanes in Florida...
Message-ID: <ch9k22+qvfc@eGroups.com>

Hello there....

I just wanted to send my love to those who are packing thier belongings in the 
threat of hurricanes in florida.......

We have cyclones in australia and waiting for them to come is a scary thing 
indeed........

Good luck to everyone, and I hope you all return to the list with health and 
houses intact....

take care,
HumanTupperware




From lists at heidi8.com  Fri Sep  3 11:48:12 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 07:48:12 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
In-Reply-To: <ch9k22+qvfc@eGroups.com>
References: <ch9k22+qvfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1094212094.22F149B5@w5.dngr.org>


On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 7:43am, humantupperware1 wrote:
> I just wanted to send my love to those who are packing thier belongings 
> in the
threat of hurricanes in florida.......
We have cyclones in australia and waiting for them to come is a scary 
thing
indeed........
Good luck to everyone, and I hope you all return to the list with health 
and
houses intact....
take care,

Thanks for the good wishes. Yes, this is just a very long waiting thing 
- they thought we'd start to get winds about 10 hours from now - now, 
they're thinking 15-18 hours from now.

My husband is taking the kids to the park this am, before we evacuate.

I'll have my handheld so I'll give updates as long as it stays up...

Heidi

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From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  3 12:28:46 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 05:28:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
In-Reply-To: <1094212094.22F149B5@w5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <20040903122846.55536.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>



Heidi Tandy <lists at heidi8.com> wrote:

My husband is taking the kids to the park this am, before we evacuate.

 

 

I am not sure where all from Florida are planning on heading to, but on last night's news (I am just north of Atlanta) they said that Atlanta Motor Speedway - south of the city - is planning on opening up the speedway grounds for any that are heading up in campers and need a place to park them.  (It was just mentioned again on the news and not just for campers but tents too - they have hot showers and restrooms)  It is located on I-75 in Henry County - between Macon and Atlanta.  We are only expecting a lot of rain and not much wind by the time it reaches us on tuesday.  

Good luck

moonmyyst


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From spin01 at aol.com  Fri Sep  3 12:47:32 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 12:47:32 -0000
Subject: Who was that masked man? wasRe: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch7hjr+4lop@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch9p54+u313@eGroups.com>

Pippen,  I went and reread it again and again.  The way I read it was 
Yes she liked the clue and yes she liked it that it made us think of 
Aberforth.  So will have to just wait and see.  I can't wait.  
sehrry

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> Sherry:
> > Ok so I have read the Entire Edenurough thing and it does not 
> > say "Aberforth is the hogs head keeper" it says oh I liked that 
> clue  etc and I am proud of myself etc.  It does nto say that is 
who 
> it  is.  She is famous for giving out clues that really lead to a 
> totally  different place.  <
> 
> I am the last to deny that JKR gives tricky answers. But how do 
> you interpret "Well yes, obviously." as tricky? 
> 
> You think she was saying, "Obviously, I am proud of the clue 
> because it made you all think of Aberforth, when it's really a red 
> herring?'  
> 
> For a clue to be a proper red herring, you should also be able 
> to draw the correct but counter-intuitive conclusion from the text, 
> which is why JKR was so apologetic about Mark Evans. 
> 
> If the resemblance to Aberforth is a red herring, she needs to put 
> some indication in the text as to why Aberforth might not be the 
> bartender in the Hogshead.  Otherwise, it's not a proper red 
> herring and JKR has no reason to be proud of it.
> 
> Pippin




From dhorton3 at cfl.rr.com  Fri Sep  3 13:06:18 2004
From: dhorton3 at cfl.rr.com (D. Horton)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:06:18 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
References: <20040903122846.55536.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c491b6$cf034570$6401a8c0@mom>

All those who have evaced are the fortunate ones. Some of us have to stay
for one reason or aother. I am in Palm Bay, Just south of Melbourne. The
news is saying that we are going to have 115 mph winds for 12-24 hours. I
know our power will be out for a week or more. Sandbags are gone, so are all
outher supplies. Fortunately we got ours before the rush. I did send my
grandbabies and daughter to S. Carolina so I won't have to be concerned
about them. Pray for us , those of you that pray. We need all the help we
can get. Gotta go MaryDianne in Florida
----- Original Message -----
From: "K G" <moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...


>
>
> Heidi Tandy <lists at heidi8.com> wrote:
>
> My husband is taking the kids to the park this am, before we evacuate.
>
>
>
>
>
> I am not sure where all from Florida are planning on heading to, but on
last night's news (I am just north of Atlanta) they said that Atlanta Motor
Speedway - south of the city - is planning on opening up the speedway
grounds for any that are heading up in campers and need a place to park
them.  (It was just mentioned again on the news and not just for campers but
tents too - they have hot showers and restrooms)  It is located on I-75 in
Henry County - between Macon and Atlanta.  We are only expecting a lot of
rain and not much wind by the time it reaches us on tuesday.
>
> Good luck
>
> moonmyyst
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>




From greatelderone at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  3 14:29:27 2004
From: greatelderone at yahoo.com (greatelderone)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 14:29:27 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch6bmv+nqf9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ch9v47+u7ch@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> In post 106761 over on HPfGU ( 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/106761 ) CDR 
> speculated that the two eggs given to Hagrid (Norbert and Aragog) 
> were linked. And I wondered in a follow-up post if the egg giver 
was 
> Voldemort's prophesy informer from The Hogs Head, and if they 
might 
> also be the Half Blood Prince.
> 
> Well here's a quiz for you. 
> 
> Let's call the mystery character Estel, since that is his name in 
> Sindarin. Who is he? Here are some more clues.
> 
> 1) He is a well travelled character who one first meets in a pub 
> where the locals are very wary of him.
> 2) He is a character who is mainly human but is also part elf, 
thus 
> he is a half-blood.
> 3) He is a character whose father was a king, thus he is a prince.

GEO: Technically his father was a chieftain.

> 4) He is a character who has fought in many battles in lands near 
> dragons and giant spiders, and would thus have access to eggs of 
> either species.

GEO: There seems to be a slight problem in your theory seeing how
two or three ages of the Earth has already passed since LOTR and the 
dunedain don't live that long in respect to those ages.

Though this does bring up the interesting question of whether all 
the wizards and witches in HP are the descendents of the Numenoreans 
or the Dunedain and what the heck happened to the poor elves that 
got them turned into house elves.

> The serious draw-back to my proposal that Estel is the Half Blood 
> Prince is that he appears in the wrong book series: 
> http://tinyurl.com/5cbua :-(

GEO: Thats why we have fan fiction.




From michel56 at earthlink.net  Fri Sep  3 14:45:14 2004
From: michel56 at earthlink.net (Michele)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:45:14 -0400
Subject: Fw: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
Message-ID: <005601c491c4$9ff704c0$f5736e18@earthlink.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: humantupperware1 

Hello there....

I just wanted to send my love to those who are packing thier belongings in the 
threat of hurricanes in florida.......

We have cyclones in australia and waiting for them to come is a scary thing 
indeed........

Good luck to everyone, and I hope you all return to the list with health and 
houses intact....

take care,
HumanTupperware


Now Michele:

Ohh, thank you!  It is the excruciatingly long wait for the storm to begin that stresses me the most.  As Heidi mentioned, the time of arrival has changed, but that's to be expected.  I just want this over with, lol... I can't stand the thought of having no power and hence no computer connection! 

Michele

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Sep  3 15:43:53 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:43:53 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
In-Reply-To: <ch9k22+qvfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOCEINDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

[humantupperware wrote]:
|
| Hello there....
|
| I just wanted to send my love to those who are packing thier
| belongings in the
| threat of hurricanes in florida.......
|
| We have cyclones in australia and waiting for them to come is a
| scary thing
| indeed........
|
| Good luck to everyone, and I hope you all return to the list with
| health and
| houses intact....
|
| take care,
| HumanTupperware

[Lee]:
Yes, indeed!  Now is the time I wish we could really do something like a
bubble charm around the houses of our Floridian friends to protect them.
Or, how about a compacting charm so one could take the whole house,
belongings and all, safely away. :-)

Seriously, my prayers are with all Floridians on the list.  I'm making some
phone calls now to some people I know to see how they're doing.

Cheers and Hugs,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Sep  3 15:50:10 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:50:10 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
In-Reply-To: <005601c491c4$9ff704c0$f5736e18@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOOEINDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>



| -----Original Message-----
| From: Michele [mailto:michel56 at earthlink.net]
| Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:45
| To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
| Subject: Fw: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hurricanes in Florida...
|
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: humantupperware1
|
| Hello there....
|
| I just wanted to send my love to those who are packing thier
| belongings in the
| threat of hurricanes in florida.......
|
| We have cyclones in australia and waiting for them to come is a
| scary thing
| indeed........
|
| Good luck to everyone, and I hope you all return to the list with
| health and
| houses intact....
|
| take care,
| HumanTupperware
|
|
[Michele writes]:
|
| Ohh, thank you!  It is the excruciatingly long wait for the storm
| to begin that stresses me the most.  As Heidi mentioned, the time
| of arrival has changed, but that's to be expected.  I just want
| this over with, lol... I can't stand the thought of having no
| power and hence no computer connection!

[Lee]:
Ah--that's when laptops are so good...especially if one can run and get
either an extra battery or one of those large jell-cell twelve-volt things.

We have a generator, so that does give us a bit to work with if we were to
lose power here in NJ.

Good luck and good thoughts/prayers.

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Fri Sep  3 16:50:31 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:50:31 EDT
Subject: To those in Florida ...
Message-ID: <15b.3e574881.2e69fad7@aol.com>

I just wanted to say to those in Florida that you are all in my thoughts and 
prayers.  We've been watching the news and this storm is packing one 
incredible punch.  Be safe!!

"Luna"

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From armadillof at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  4 03:55:15 2004
From: armadillof at yahoo.com (armadillof)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 03:55:15 -0000
Subject: Lupin's class music
Message-ID: <chbeb3+m4es@eGroups.com>

Hi all....

I was just wondering if anyone here knew what the name/artist behind 
the jazzy style music Lupin had playing in the classroom on the 
grammophone while facing the boggart.  Any info would be greatly 
appreciated!  

Just another Lupin fan who digs his musical taste...

AF :)





From lists at heidi8.com  Sat Sep  4 04:34:03 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 00:34:03 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Lupin's class music
In-Reply-To: <chbeb3+m4es@eGroups.com>
References: <chbeb3+m4es@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1094272447.12DB3431@w37.dngr.org>

It's a rendition of Glen Miller's Sing, Sing, Sing (with a swing)

Heidi, where it's a bit windy
On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:05am, armadillof wrote:
> Hi all....
I was just wondering if anyone here knew what the name/artist behind
the jazzy style music Lupin had playing in the classroom on the
grammophone while facing the boggart.? Any info would be greatly
appreciated!?
Just another Lupin fan who digs his musical taste...
AF :)
________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
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From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  4 06:12:18 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 06:12:18 -0000
Subject: Lupin's class music
In-Reply-To: <1094272447.12DB3431@w37.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <chbmc2+26v0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <lists at h...> 
wrote:
> It's a rendition of Glen Miller's Sing, Sing, Sing (with a swing)


Right!  Thanks for reminding me of something I loved about the movie 
and totally forgot about!  I liked that Lupin knew his Muggle swing. 
>:)

A.J.




From timregan at microsoft.com  Sat Sep  4 08:54:31 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 08:54:31 -0000
Subject: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
Message-ID: <chbvs7+dup1@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

In a few minutes I'm off to the Hardwick Village Show 
http://tinyurl.com/5n5w3 to drop of my daughter Meg's and my 
entries. Meg is putting in a mosaic of a bridge over a river in the 
moonlight and a teddy-bear dressed in Japanese costume that she 
made. I'm showing a loaf of bread, a victoria sandwich, and a bottle 
of sloe gin. You get a rosette for gold, silver, or bronze and since 
there was only one entry in the sloe gin category last year I should 
be in with a chance there. Only I did mention that plan to loads of 
friends who felt spurred on to also make sloe gin this year :-(

The really tricky category will be the victoria sandwich. The show 
organisers stipulate the recipe so it's a bit like Formula One. 
There are apparently some very old ladies in the village who win 
that category year after year so the competition should be stiff.

Sadly I'm not much of a gardener so I couldn't enter any of the 
garden produce categories.

Anyway, wish me luck; I'll let you all know if I win anything.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.






From redina at silverbloom.net  Sat Sep  4 09:24:48 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:24:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...
In-Reply-To: <20040903001939.22452.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2340.4.12.232.16.1094169692.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
    <20040903001939.22452.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4096.4.47.27.253.1094289888.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Tasha said:
> I live in a apartment complex and I think I might leave if it comes near
> us. Im more worried about my fiances mother since she lives near the beach
> on St. Pete.

Ah, flooding.  Wind is no biggie, however, water is more damaging.  I'm
also a Pinellas county resident, so we're mostly surrounded by either
Tampa Bay or the Gulf of Mexico, not including the various rivers and
lakes.

Dina


--
"I swear he's got a pu**y, Orlando Bloom. Either that or he's a
hermaphrodite. It's one of the two! Who the hell wants to walk
around with someone who's prettier than you if you're a woman?"
- actor, Johnny Messner  (I wonder if he reads slash fic)





From firedancerflash at comcast.net  Sat Sep  4 12:59:10 2004
From: firedancerflash at comcast.net (Firedancer)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 08:59:10 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Lupin's class music
References: <chbmc2+26v0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <011101c4927e$f8bc4880$e60b8f45@Voov>

Well, this brings up another question.  What was the music that was playing
when Lupin was talking to Harry there at the end of the movie--I'm talking
about when he was packing his stuff to go, right about the time when he
returned the Marrauders' Map.  June
None but the piper keeps up with the dancer!
   Siempre revelde!!
June




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  4 16:13:18 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:13:18 -0000
Subject: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
In-Reply-To: <chbvs7+dup1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chcpiu+j8fa@eGroups.com>

Good luck!

True to HPfGU-OTChatter tradition, I must ask:  what's a victoria 
sandwich?

Amy Z




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Sat Sep  4 16:57:24 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:57:24 EDT
Subject: Our florida friends ...
Message-ID: <1e9.299a7c90.2e6b4df4@aol.com>

Continued good thoughts for our Floridian friends.  I was happy to hear the 
storm went from a catagory 4 to a category 2.  Hopefully this will mean less 
damage, and earlier arrival times back to your homes.  I pray all are well! 


"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From camilla at vaughan3.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Sep  4 17:33:31 2004
From: camilla at vaughan3.fsnet.co.uk (millimagus)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:33:31 -0000
Subject: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
In-Reply-To: <chcpiu+j8fa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chcu9b+aj54@eGroups.com>

I love these British-American translation issues!

A victoria sandwich is a light sponge cake sliced in two with jam 
(usually raspberry or strawberry) and butter cream spread between.

It's very nice.

And, goodluck Dumbledad!!

Milli.




--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> Good luck!
> 
> True to HPfGU-OTChatter tradition, I must ask:  what's a victoria 
> sandwich?
> 
> Amy Z




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  4 21:40:24 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 21:40:24 -0000
Subject: Going to NO MAIL......
Message-ID: <chdco8+nuk9@eGroups.com>

Hey guys and gals I will be going to no mail until the Hurricane has
passed us and that will be very late Sunday night if the lights are
not out. Please pray for us Floridans. Right now its 5:30pm and all
we are getting here in Lutz is a lot of wind and rain is coming so
but the wind is minimal about 25 mph. We already moved stuff in and
bought food and water and will put the tape on windows later.
Everyone else here in Florida stay safe and contact others when you
are able to get back online I will be doing the same thing.

Tasha




From spin01 at aol.com  Sun Sep  5 02:46:47 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:46:47 -0000
Subject: JKR's website,
Message-ID: <chdumn+5mfv@eGroups.com>

Has anyone been on the official website today?  I just went there and 
the pen/pencil holder is tipped over. It has a bunch more 
pens/pencils in it. I have not been able to get it to do anything but 
thought someone who is better at it than I am could check it out.
sherry




From spin01 at aol.com  Sun Sep  5 02:50:23 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:50:23 -0000
Subject: Jkr's website
Message-ID: <chdutf+3v2f@eGroups.com>

Ok so just went back after posting last note and the can is upright 
again.  So not sure what that is all about.
sherry




From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Sun Sep  5 02:51:20 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (rynne_lupin)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:51:20 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday x2!
Message-ID: <chduv8+pdjg@eGroups.com>

First of all, apologies to Athene, that I couldn't make her birthday 
yesterday.  My hands have been ironed, though they are at least well 
enough to type by now.

Anyway, we've got one birthday for yesterday, September 3rd, and 
another today for September 4th! *breaks out the party gear and music*

The first birthday is Athene, who can be reached for birthday owls at 
athene_51 at yahoo.ca.  Go wish her a happy belated birthday!  And our 
second birthday is Phil Boswell, who can be reached for birthday owls 
at phil_hp7 at yahoo.co.uk.  Wish him a happy birthday too!

*pops out briefly, and pops back in holding two enormous cakes* Who 
wants caaaake? *grins widely*

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ATHENE!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PHIL!

--Rynny the Birthday Elf  





From redina at silverbloom.net  Sun Sep  5 04:06:19 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 00:06:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mock the Weather Reporters
Message-ID: <1710.4.12.232.33.1094357179.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

I nuked some popcorn for a mini "hurricane party" (esp. Floridians know of
them)--yes, there's a disaster going on (when isn't there destruction and
death somewhere in the world - think of those kids recently killed in
Russia).  Anyway, you almost have to find some of these weather
reporters... 'comical'.  It's like you don't need to stand out in the
middle of a hurricane for viewers to get the idea the weather is *bad*.

Classic example of do as I say (find shelter) and not as I do (stand
outside).

{snort}

Dina




From LilDancinQT86 at aol.com  Sun Sep  5 01:20:06 2004
From: LilDancinQT86 at aol.com (theredshoes86)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 01:20:06 -0000
Subject: Wotcher???
Message-ID: <chdpk6+eula@eGroups.com>

On page 47 of the OotP, hardcover edition, Tonks says "wotcher harry."  I have never heard 
this word used before in my life.  I even entered it into the www.dictionary.com search, no 
results.  What does it mean???
~theredshoes86





From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  5 13:28:31 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:28:31 -0000
Subject: Wotcher???
In-Reply-To: <chdpk6+eula@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chf49v+lrot@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "theredshoes86" 
<LilDancinQT86 at a...> wrote:
> On page 47 of the OotP, hardcover edition, Tonks says "wotcher 
harry."  I have never heard 
> this word used before in my life.  I even entered it into the 
www.dictionary.com search, no 
> results.  What does it mean???
> ~theredshoes86

"Whassup?" Whatcha doin'?  How's it goin'?  Yo, hey, etc...

A.J.




From humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au  Sun Sep  5 13:55:15 2004
From: humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au (humantupperware1)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:55:15 -0000
Subject: Jkr's website
In-Reply-To: <chdutf+3v2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chf5s3+ocj6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" <spin01 at a...> 
wrote:
> Ok so just went back after posting last note and the can is upright 
> again.  So not sure what that is all about.
> sherry

Hey there sherry,

The pencil holder tips over when peeves does his little breezy mischief on the 
front page of the website......if you leave any page on the website unattended 
for long enough, he blows through and leaves a mess in his wake....

In this case, with the pencils, it's nothing too exciting, the pencils dont do 
anything (highly dissapointing)

Hoping I have helped your confusion,

HumanTupperware




From ryokas at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  5 14:38:26 2004
From: ryokas at hotmail.com (kizor0)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 14:38:26 -0000
Subject: Wotcher???
In-Reply-To: <chdpk6+eula@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chf8d2+mnek@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "theredshoes86"
<LilDancinQT86 at a...> wrote:
> On page 47 of the OotP, hardcover edition, Tonks says "wotcher
harry."  I have never heard 
> this word used before in my life.  I even entered it into the
www.dictionary.com search, no 
> results.  What does it mean???
> ~theredshoes86

A wotcher is a fan of The Wotch, one of the stranger webcomics out
there that rivals even the better-known El Goonish Shive in terms of
weirdness.

If you're looking for a sane answer, 'wotcher' seems like a fairly
casual greeting, probably some kind of slang. In the Finnish version
it's been translated as such.

- Kizor




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  5 15:02:42 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 5 Sep 2004 15:02:42 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1094396562.13.57404.m23@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, September 5, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 

Hope to see you there! 

 





From penmouse756 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  5 14:59:29 2004
From: penmouse756 at yahoo.com (penmouse756)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 14:59:29 -0000
Subject: wotcher
Message-ID: <chf9kh+lf2g@eGroups.com>

Hi all,
There is a great site that I use often whenever I want an English 
expression for one of my fics:

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang

It gives you all the slang words you could ever think of and the 
definitions for those of us who have no clue what they mean! It 
comes in very handy.  

I hope this will be of use to some of you.

Cheers mates!

Sevfan





From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 02:42:19 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
In-Reply-To: <chcu9b+aj54@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040906024219.98214.qmail@web53508.mail.yahoo.com>



millimagus <camilla at vaughan3.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
I love these British-American translation issues!

A victoria sandwich is a light sponge cake sliced in two with jam 
(usually raspberry or strawberry) and butter cream spread between.

It's very nice.

And, goodluck Dumbledad!!

Milli.


Good luck!!


That sounds yummy!!  Could someone send me a recipe?  That sounds like something I could include in our Thanksgiving Dinner!!

moonmyyst (and while we are wishing luck - wish us some luck - I am going to be showing my bi-black sheltie at a show this coming weekend - in Chattanooga)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 02:51:04 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...
In-Reply-To: <4096.4.47.27.253.1094289888.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <20040906025104.21576.qmail@web53505.mail.yahoo.com>



Dina Lerret <redina at silverbloom.net> wrote:

Ah, flooding.  Wind is no biggie, however, water is more damaging.  I'm also a Pinellas county resident, so we're mostly surrounded by either Tampa Bay or the Gulf of Mexico, not including the various rivers and lakes.

Dina


This hurricane is just now heading off into the Gulf and is going to come back on shore on the panhandle tomorrow and head up my way (we will just get a bit of rain) and they are talking about a 3rd hurricane!!  Ivan the terrible is what they are calling it and it is a cat 4 already.  It is still in the atlantic but is bearing down on Hispanola.  That is all they need - to get a third strike.  Let us all keep our fingers crossed that this keeps west and not head north - so that it goes into the Gulf and on into an unpopulated area.

moonmyyst


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

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From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Mon Sep  6 03:34:32 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (rynne_lupin)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:34:32 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Marina Javor!
Message-ID: <chgls8+m81n@eGroups.com>

*pops in* Ah, all the lovely birthdays, Rynny is having such fun 
throwing all these parties...*looks around, beaming*

Today's birthday honoree is Marina Javor, who can be reached for 
birthday owls at lipglossusa at yahoo.com.  Do be sure and send her 
birthday wishes--everyone loves getting happy things on their 
birthdays!

*starts looking through boxes for the party decorations* Where did 
they go...ah, here they are!  *brings out crepe paper and floating 
candles and more*

Now, all of you just wait here while I go get the cake...*pops out, 
and pops back in again a minute later with a large chocolate cake* 
Dig in, everyone!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MARINA!

--Rynne the Birthday Elf  




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 04:53:49 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 04:53:49 -0000
Subject: Quick update.....
Message-ID: <chgqgt+mokh@eGroups.com>

Quick update Number 2.
It is 12 midnight right now and we are getting more wind and rain and 
so far so good but knock on wood we havent lost power yet, though it 
is starting to get a little flooded out there but the drainage pipes 
are working quickly to get rid of the rain and we arent in the flood 
zone at all so we arent getting it to bad. Lights went out a few 
times but came back on in a instant. I wasnt able to go to bed last 
night until after 3am because it was to scary and my kitten was going 
crazy running around everywhere including climbing in the curtains 
and climbing on us and knocking things over. Then we get up at 10:30 
this morning with the sound of a lot of wind and rain hitting our 
windows and the stupid dog wanted to go outside and since I have a 
little bit more weight than my fiance I went out and took the dog out 
and was soaked in a second. One side of the building was lite wind 
and rain and on the other side of the building was really heavy wind 
and rain and of course I had to go on that side to the dog walk and I 
had to take a shower afterwards because I was really itchy from all 
the grass and wind blowing the rain everywhere. It started getting a 
little bit bad around 3pm when the front wind started blowing harder 
and the eye almost on top of us. The eye finally just came upon us at 
11pm and now we are getting the back wind and a lot of rain. That 
stupid dog made me go out with him 6 times today. I took 5 rolls of 
film of the storm. We had two trees blow over and some plywood on the 
ground from no where. I took pics of the debris as well. My fiance 
took pics of me when I came back inside with dog soakin wet and I 
dried myself and the dog with the blow dryer. No words can desribe 
what we went through today and it is still not over with and it wont 
go away until tomorrow night and by then when it goes into the Gulf 
of Mexico it will then go into Category 1 Hurricane once again and 
head right to Alabama or somewhere. I dont want to think about Ivan 
right now. This is to much for us. I just wish I had a video camera 
to show it to everyone. 
I am now going into Individual Email so I can talk to you people. I 
need to talk to someone because all I been doing is been listening to 
the tv and the radio about the hurricane and my honey going crazy by 
acting funny and weird and of course I dont mind that at all because 
that is how I am a lot if you get to know me. I just got to talk to 
other people. 
Ok I need to stop rammbling now so I can send this to before I go 
crazy.

Tasha




> Hey guys and gals Im not back in here yet but I had to come on for 
a quick second to update you guys about what is going on here. Right 
now it is 8pm and we went through a lot here in Lutz, Florida. Ok 
starting from last night when I went to no mail. We had a lot of wind 
but no rain until 10am this morning. Of course our dog needed to use 
the bathroom so I took him out. I live in a apartment complex and 
there is a tunnel to go to back or front and when I walked out the 
door you can feel the wind blowing from the back tunnel . I looked at 
the back it was raining and windy. I looked in the front it was 
lightly raining and light wind but I had to take the dog to the back 
where the dog walk is and I got soak in a second. I took a lot of 
pictures of the hurricane about 4 rolls of film. 4 times that stupid 
dog had to go out and I got soaked again. One tree fell over and it 
was an ugly tree and I was glad to see it go. Our electricity went 
off and on about 4 times. Its still on but I dont
>  know if it will stay on when winds are going to be picking it back 
it up later tonight when it gets on the Gulf of Mexico where it will 
be Hurricane again. Of course everyone keeps bringing up Hurricane 
Ivan out in the Atlantic near South America and we dont want to hear 
about that yet. If it comes to Florida I am going to drug my fiances 
mother and drag him up to Ohio to his brothers house and stay there. 
My fiances mother is stubborn when it comes to moving or going 
anywhere but we get along really good. 
> Oh crap I got to go now its getting winderer and the electrictity 
is flicking on and off so see ya later.
>  
> Tasha
> 
> 
> Jesus loves you Acts 3:16 He is the way and the truth Love one 
another even your enemies, Right Harry Potter?
http://www.JohnnyDeppisForLovers at y...://www.HarryPotterRocksatHogwarts
2 at y...://www.HarryPotterRocksatHogwarts at y...://www.I_Hate_Rita_Skeeter
@y...://www.Hogwarts_Common_Room at y...://www.Schoolofwitchcraftandwizar
dry at yahoogroups.com




From redina at silverbloom.net  Mon Sep  6 05:12:34 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 01:12:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hurricane acoming again...
In-Reply-To: <20040906025104.21576.qmail@web53505.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4096.4.47.27.253.1094289888.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
    <20040906025104.21576.qmail@web53505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1208.4.47.27.209.1094447554.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

K G said:

> still in the atlantic but is bearing down on Hispanola.  That is all they
> need - to get a third strike.  Let us all keep our fingers crossed that

Busy year, evidently.

I just got my power back after losing it this morning (~14hrs down). 
Cable TV's still out. :-\  Ah well, just glad to have electricity again
(indoor temperature was okay but fridge needed power).  The radio is
saying millions across the state are without power, so some Floridians may
not get back online for awhile.

Dina,
glad even for her sucky internet connection




From redina at silverbloom.net  Mon Sep  6 07:06:54 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 03:06:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Quick update.....
In-Reply-To: <chgqgt+mokh@eGroups.com>
References: <chgqgt+mokh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1263.4.47.27.209.1094454414.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Tasha said:

> dried myself and the dog with the blow dryer. No words can desribe
> what we went through today and it is still not over with and it wont

Um, I thought you were pretty articulate already. :-)

My summary: windy, wet, noisy, and messy.  Going to be a pain in the arse
to clean up tomorrow.

I tried sleeping through it because no power = boring.  However, the loud
wind gusts, bursts of heavy raining, windows 'cracking' (glass wasn't
breaking; instead, pressure against the entire window), transformers going
'pop' (brief green electrical glow at night was kinda cool and reminded me
of Avada Kedavra from the first HP movie), and the frequent sirens from
emergency vehicles outside kept waking me up.

>From the limited reports I've heard so far, thankfully, most folks found
proper shelter.  Now, they just want their power back on.

As appealing as magic is (e.g. 'accio remote control' or 'accio toilet
paper'--yeah, I'm one of those who forget to load up the roll, so I use
the tissue paper as 'back-up' - unlike guys, I can't 'shake the dew off
the lily'), I'm hooked on devices that use electricity.

Dina




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep  6 12:11:25 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:11:25 -0000
Subject: Storm stories
In-Reply-To: <1263.4.47.27.209.1094454414.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <chhk5d+hb8e@eGroups.com>

Dina wrote:

>--yeah, I'm one of those who forget to load up the roll, so I use
> the tissue paper as 'back-up' - unlike guys, I can't 'shake the 
dew off
> the lily')

At times of great crisis, it's these little personal details that 
keep morale up - come on everyone, share!

David, who also gets irritated by the sight of reporters made to 
stand somewhere unnecessary in the name of realism




From carmenharms at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 14:03:03 2004
From: carmenharms at yahoo.com (snazzzybird)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 14:03:03 -0000
Subject: Quick update.....
In-Reply-To: <chgqgt+mokh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chhqmn+lu2n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tasha" <bruney200 at y...> 
wrote:
>I wasnt able to go to bed last night until after 3am because it was 
>to scary and my kitten was going crazy running around everywhere
> including climbing in the curtains and climbing on us and knocking 
> things over. Then we get up at 10:30 this morning with the sound
> of a lot of wind and rain hitting our windows and the stupid dog
> wanted to go outside and since I have a little bit more weight 
> than my fiance I went out and took the dog out and was soaked in a 
> second. 
<snip>
> The eye finally just came upon us at 
> 11pm and now we are getting the back wind and a lot of rain. That 
> stupid dog made me go out with him 6 times today. 
> Tasha
> 
> 
So glad to hear you've made it through the hurricane!  Storms have a 
profound effect on animals, don't they?  I live in the Midwest 
in "tornado alley", and my cat Angel will go ripping through the 
house, up and down the stairs, whenever a storm is coming.

--snazzzybird




From redina at silverbloom.net  Mon Sep  6 14:16:59 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:16:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Storm stories
Message-ID: <1145.4.47.27.218.1094480219.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

davewitley said:

> David, who also gets irritated by the sight of reporters made to
> stand somewhere unnecessary in the name of realism

My internet connection is spotty.  The weather folk said it was suppose to
clear up this morning for Tampa Bay... Nope.  Weather is getting worse and
the new ETA for clearing up is tomorrow.  Figures, the storm fills up the
entire holiday weekend... and I miss my TV shows, Six Feet Under and Dead
Like Me. {quirks eyebrow}  Rather morbid in the middle of a storm but I
like them! {g}  Thank goodness for repeats.

Speaking of internet, I love how the radio aired a segment from a power
company saying folks should check *online* to monitor the status of
electricity coming back.

{snort}  *Really* helpful for those without power and internet, unless
they have a laptop and/or computer battery back-up with wireless internet.
 Although, there is some logic to this for the power company: less folk
can contact them this way. {chuckle}

Dina




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 14:35:10 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Quick update.....
In-Reply-To: <chhqmn+lu2n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040906143510.94120.qmail@web53502.mail.yahoo.com>




--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tasha" <bruney200 at y...> 
wrote:
>I wasnt able to go to bed last night until after 3am because it was to scary and my kitten was going crazy running around everywhere including climbing in the curtains and climbing on us and knocking things over. Then we get up at 10:30 this morning with the sound of a lot of wind and rain hitting our windows and the stupid dog wanted to go outside and since I have a little bit more weight than my fiance I went out and took the dog out and was soaked in a second. 
<snip> The eye finally just came upon us at 11pm and now we are getting the back wind and a lot of rain. That  stupid dog made me go out with him 6 times today. 
> Tasha
> 
> 
So glad to hear you've made it through the hurricane!  Storms have a profound effect on animals, don't they?  I live in the Midwest in "tornado alley", and my cat Angel will go ripping through the house, up and down the stairs, whenever a storm is coming.

--snazzzybird



Something that I tell people in my dog obedience classes is that dogs are only about a half step away from being wild.  They are affected by full moons, new moons, and strong weather fronts.  (I would definately place hurricanes and tornados in the strong weather front catagory)  

moonmyyst


		
---------------------------------
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From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Mon Sep  6 15:34:15 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:34:15 EDT
Subject: Time-turner discussion
Message-ID: <e4.5762412d.2e6ddd77@aol.com>

I was bike riding with my son yesterday and had an epiphany about the final 
two books.  Here goes ... since I'm new to the list, and have no idea of any of 
the previous discussions, I was wondering if there has been a thread of 
discussion/speculation that Harry would use the time-turner to prevent or avenge 
his parents death?  Would he go back that far in time and as the young adult 
Harry, duel with Voldemort to prevent his parents death, thus re-writing his own 
future?  There would be no Dursley's to contend with, Sirius wouldn't die, 
he'd grow up with his parents, etc.  I would imagine there has been some 
discussion about that idea previously, so if there has, and someone cares to share the 
condensed version of it with me, I'd appreciate it.   

Thanks,

"Luna"



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From plungy116 at aol.com  Mon Sep  6 18:54:33 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:54:33 -0000
Subject: Jkr's website
In-Reply-To: <chdutf+3v2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chibp9+e6ql@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
<spin01 at a...> wrote:
> Ok so just went back after posting last note and the can is upright 
> again.  So not sure what that is all about.
> sherry
It sounds as if Peeves has been through there and you didn't notice.  
He knocks the pen holder over, but if you go out and come back in 
it'll be back to its original place.  In the room with the door he 
writes on the mirror
Sarah




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 20:00:23 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:00:23 -0000
Subject: Time-turner discussion
In-Reply-To: <e4.5762412d.2e6ddd77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <chifkn+q0gb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> I was bike riding with my son yesterday and had an epiphany about 
the final two books.  Here goes ... since I'm new to the list, and 
have no idea of any of the previous discussions, I was wondering if 
there has been a thread of discussion/speculation that Harry would 
use the time-turner to prevent or avenge his parents death?  Would 
he go back that far in time and as the young adult Harry, duel with 
Voldemort to prevent his parents death, thus re-writing his own  
future?  There would be no Dursley's to contend with, Sirius 
wouldn't die, he'd grow up with his parents, etc.  I would imagine 
there has been some discussion about that idea previously, so if 
there has, and someone cares to share the condensed version of it 
with me, I'd appreciate it.   
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> "Luna"
> 
> *****\(@@)/*****

I am sure it has been discussed on the main list but when I tried 
the search, it just gives me the last couple of days so it isn't 
very helpful right now (though I will keep trying). I think the time 
turner will be back since so much emphasis was put on it in PoA and 
in OoP but I haven't a clue or a theory as to how it will be used. I 
would be a bit disappointed if Harry went back and changed things so 
much (aside from it being such a dangerous thing to do). It would 
sort of kill the whole point of the stories - kind of waking up and 
finding the last 6 books were just a dream! I think JKR has other 
interesting things up her sleeve for us!

If I can find some of the posts on this topic I will let you know.

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Sep  6 21:01:37 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:01:37 -0000
Subject: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
In-Reply-To: <20040906024219.98214.qmail@web53508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <chij7h+b03n@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

Milli wrote:
>>> A victoria sandwich is a light sponge cake sliced in two with 
jam (usually raspberry or strawberry) and butter cream spread 
between. It's very nice. And, goodluck Dumbledad!! <<<

moonmyyst wrote:
>>> That sounds yummy! Could someone send me a recipe? <<<

Well, this is the recipe we had to follow to enter the Hardwick 
Show: 

Victoria Sandwich Cake with raspberry jam filling, caster sugar 
topping

6 ozs butter
6ozs caster sugar
6 ozs self-raising flour
3 eggs (beaten) 

Grease and line 2 sponge tins Beat the butter and sugar until light 
and fluffy, whisk eggs well and beat into the mixture adding a 
little flour at any sign of curdling. Gently fold in the flour to 
soft consistency; add a little water if necessary. Divide the 
mixture equally between the 2 sponge tins and cook for 18 - 25 
minutes at 350 - 375F, gas mark 4 ? 5

If I hadn't been constrained by the show requirements I'd have added 
a little vanilla essence to the sponge.

But ... I won :-)

The three things I entered: victoria sandwich, bread, and sloe gin 
all won first place in their class. Next year I'm going to do so 
much baking that I'll try to win the cup for most points won in 
classes in the baking category.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.






From spin01 at aol.com  Mon Sep  6 22:56:41 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:56:41 -0000
Subject: as long as were talking goodies
In-Reply-To: <chij7h+b03n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chipv9+35nl@eGroups.com>

Hi all,
This is totally off the subject of Harry Potter but does anone have a 
quickbread recipe that I could add tomatos and garlic to?  I have so 
many fresh tomatoes that I will never use them all.  thought maybe a 
quick bread recipe would be good. someting  could lightly toast and 
put cream cheese on.
sherry

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Milli wrote:
> >>> A victoria sandwich is a light sponge cake sliced in two with 
> jam (usually raspberry or strawberry) and butter cream spread 
> between. It's very nice. And, goodluck Dumbledad!! <<<
> 
> moonmyyst wrote:
> >>> That sounds yummy! Could someone send me a recipe? <<<
> 
> Well, this is the recipe we had to follow to enter the Hardwick 
> Show: 
> 
> Victoria Sandwich Cake with raspberry jam filling, caster sugar 
> topping
> 
> 6 ozs butter
> 6ozs caster sugar
> 6 ozs self-raising flour
> 3 eggs (beaten) 
> 
> Grease and line 2 sponge tins Beat the butter and sugar until light 
> and fluffy, whisk eggs well and beat into the mixture adding a 
> little flour at any sign of curdling. Gently fold in the flour to 
> soft consistency; add a little water if necessary. Divide the 
> mixture equally between the 2 sponge tins and cook for 18 - 25 
> minutes at 350 - 375F, gas mark 4 ? 5
> 
> If I hadn't been constrained by the show requirements I'd have 
added 
> a little vanilla essence to the sponge.
> 
> But ... I won :-)
> 
> The three things I entered: victoria sandwich, bread, and sloe gin 
> all won first place in their class. Next year I'm going to do so 
> much baking that I'll try to win the cup for most points won in 
> classes in the baking category.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dumbledad.




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 23:00:41 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
In-Reply-To: <chij7h+b03n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040906230041.30049.qmail@web53510.mail.yahoo.com>



Tim Regan <timregan at microsoft.com> wrote:
Well, this is the recipe we had to follow to enter the Hardwick 
Show: 

Victoria Sandwich Cake with raspberry jam filling, caster sugar 
topping

6 ozs butter
6ozs caster sugar
6 ozs self-raising flour
3 eggs (beaten) 

Grease and line 2 sponge tins Beat the butter and sugar until light 
and fluffy, whisk eggs well and beat into the mixture adding a 
little flour at any sign of curdling. Gently fold in the flour to 
soft consistency; add a little water if necessary. Divide the 
mixture equally between the 2 sponge tins and cook for 18 - 25 
minutes at 350 - 375F, gas mark 4 ? 5

If I hadn't been constrained by the show requirements I'd have added 
a little vanilla essence to the sponge.

But ... I won :-)

The three things I entered: victoria sandwich, bread, and sloe gin 
all won first place in their class. Next year I'm going to do so 
much baking that I'll try to win the cup for most points won in 
classes in the baking category.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.



Congratulations and thank you!!  I cannot wait to make it!!  

moonmyyst (who's tummy is grumbling)


		
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kcawte at ntlworld.com  Mon Sep  6 23:04:53 2004
From: kcawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:04:53 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hardwick Village Show - wish me luck!
References: <chij7h+b03n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004701c49465$edbe83b0$69206bd5@kathryn>



If I hadn't been constrained by the show requirements I'd have added
a little vanilla essence to the sponge.

But ... I won :-)

The three things I entered: victoria sandwich, bread, and sloe gin
all won first place in their class. Next year I'm going to do so
much baking that I'll try to win the cup for most points won in
classes in the baking category.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





Congratulations!

The sponge recipe does sound like they've stripped it down to the very
basics though. Still I guess that doesn't matter too much since everyone's
creative flair is constrained by the same rules - vanilla essence does sound
like it would be a good addition though.

K





From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  7 00:51:53 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 00:51:53 -0000
Subject: at WorldCon
Message-ID: <chj0n9+jhom@eGroups.com>

I had to (or, say, got to) attend a scifi con in Boston to perform 
with my group.  I thought I'd bring along my robes just in case it 
seemed wise to change afterwards.  After our performance and having 
lunch, I felt out of place _not_ in robes, so I went to the ladies 
room and put on full Hufflepuff uniform.  (It went over well-- I even 
found enamel House pins for sale, and everyone thought I was Harry or 
wanted my photo.)

The funny thing was during the costume presentation, which I and 
friends watched (not participating).  One entry for Young Fans, Self 
Made was "Harry Potter and the Dementor."

A young boy came out (in standard-bought Gryff robe, an argyle vest, 
and a magician's wand) and stood midstage saying, "Gee, it's getting 
cold here."  That was cute and funny.  Then a very short Dementor 
entered from stage right, holding its arms out, unnoticed by the 
boy.  "What was that?" said the boy, and the audience laughed.  The 
boy turned, said, "Expecto Patronum," and the Dementor turned around 
and walked back offstage.

The people around me were nudging me and so forth.  It was terribly 
cute.  The kids sat down near us later, and I shook Harry's hand in 
solidarity.

A.J.




From ritz_bach at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 20:54:24 2004
From: ritz_bach at yahoo.com (Maurice Bodlund)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Possible New Director for OoP
In-Reply-To: <4ffdafbf0408310355314d00aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20040906205424.53526.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com>

 Why not PJ instead? Or Cuaron...?

Suzanne Chiles <suzchiles at gmail.com> wrote:On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:30:21 -0000, dudemom_2000 <dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Mira Nair has possibly been chosen to direct OoP. She has a lot of
> great credits to her name: Monsoon Wedding, Missippi Marsala, Salaam
> Bombay!, and the Kama Sutra. I have seen all of these films and have
> been continually impressed by her work. Salaam Bombay in particular -
> she used real street children and she captured their despair and the
> reality of their situations. She would be a magnificent director and
> certainly able to capture Harry as a teenager full of anger and
> confusion.....

I am very happy about this possibility as well. I have been impressed
with Monsoon Wedding and Mississippi Masala. I am also impressed with
the trend the producers are exhibiting in the choice of directors:
top-drawer people, like Cuaron and Newell,  who are not primarily
known for directing children's films, like Columbus. This gives me 
very high hopes for the future of the Harry Potter films.

Suzanne
-- 
Suzanne Chiles
suzchiles at pobox.com
suzchiles at gmail.com


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From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Tue Sep  7 05:35:03 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chncprmly)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 05:35:03 -0000
Subject: Jkr's website FAN SITES
In-Reply-To: <chibp9+e6ql@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chjha7+3b87@eGroups.com>

Just wondering if anyone else notice that on the Fan Sites Page, that 
the names on the trophy's are in the most part people who are dead? 
[Lily Evens, James..(last name coverd I assume it's Potter) Sirius 
Black... ]With the exception of "Percy Weasley" (silver cup behind 
the scrol), "Frank Longbottom" (top shelf), and a cup second from the 
middle (beside the one with Percy's name)that show's the letters "HA."
Could this be a clue as to who will die?  OH, and "Tom Riddle" has 2 
plaques with his name inscribed.  Does any one have a clue to what 
this means???  I figure the "HA" means either Harry(of course), or 
Hagrid.  What do you think?





From lists at heidi8.com  Tue Sep  7 10:54:31 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 06:54:31 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jkr's website FAN SITES
In-Reply-To: <chjha7+3b87@eGroups.com>
References: <chjha7+3b87@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1094554475.79A6DB4@r5.dngr.org>


On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 4:21am, chncprmly wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone else notice that on the Fan Sites Page, that
the names on the trophy's are in the most part people who are dead?
[Lily Evens, James..(last name coverd I assume it's Potter) Sirius
Black... ]With the exception of "Percy Weasley" (silver cup behind
the scrol), "Frank Longbottom" (top shelf), and a cup second from the
middle (beside the one with Percy's name)that show's the letters "HA."
Could this be a clue as to who will die?? OH, and "Tom Riddle" has 2
plaques with his name inscribed.? Does any one have a clue to what
this means????

In CoS, it's mentioned that they found his name on the special services 
trophy and on a listing of head boys. I'm just surprised the special 
services trophy wasn't stuffed into the bin when Dumbledore learned he'd 
lied to get it.

Heidi


________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
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From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Tue Sep  7 18:46:55 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chncprmly)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 18:46:55 -0000
Subject: Jkr's website FAN SITES
In-Reply-To: <1094554475.79A6DB4@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <chkvmv+65n5@eGroups.com>

> the names on the trophy's are in the most part people who are dead?
[snip]With the exception of "Percy Weasley" (silver cup behind
the scrol), "Frank Longbottom" (top shelf), and a cup second from the 
middle (beside the one with Percy's name)that show's the etters "HA." 
Could this be a clue as to who will die? OH, and "Tom Riddle" has 
plaques with his name inscribed. Does any one have a clue to what 
this means???
 
> In CoS, it's mentioned that they found his name on the special 
services trophy and on a listing of head boys. I'm just surprised the 
special services trophy wasn't stuffed into the bin when Dumbledore 
learned he'd lied to get it.
> 
> Heidi

Chancie:
Yes, I remember in COS the statement about Tom Riddle (I believe it 
was Ron who said so, because he spent his detention cleaning the 
trophy room with Filch).  I was more interested in the other names 
mentioned.  Does anyone have any ideas about those?  And I too had 
questions about why Riddles special awards to the school wasn't taken 
away.  I wonder if it was over looked?  Any thoughts?

Chancie




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Tue Sep  7 19:00:01 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chncprmly)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:00:01 -0000
Subject: Time-turner discussion
In-Reply-To: <chifkn+q0gb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chl0fh+dqj8@eGroups.com>

I would imagine 
there has been some discussion about that idea previously, so if 
there has, and someone cares to share the condensed version of it 
with me, I'd appreciate it.   
Thanks,
"Luna"
> > 

Chancie:
There was actually a discusion about this earlier today on the main 
list here is basicly what has been posted this far on it.
Chancie

******************************************************************
SSSusan asked:
Is it the general consensus that a person can TT 
to a moment *before* he was even born **and then perform some action 
which changes events**?  Not like in PoA, when H/H simply time-turn 
to a point w/in the same day?  Could Harry go back 25 years, to when 
he was "minus-10"??
 
PK responded: 
> Well, I don't see why, if you can go back in time at all, you'd be
> restricted to times you'd actually been to previously unless you 
> were actually stuck sharing your own consciousness at the time -- 
> which isn't the case.
> 

Chancie
It doesn't really make since to me that there would be time limits on 
the TT, but the only thing about not having limits is, why don't they 
just use it to kill Tom Riddle when he's a baby so that no one has to 
suffer from the things that he will do if given the chance.  It would 
seem like the easiest fix for the whole situation.  Harry's parent's 
would still be alive, Hagrid wouldn't have been framed, and 
expelled.  Cedric wouldn't have been Killed.  Neville's parent's 
would still be sane.  Sirius would still be alive....well I think 
I've made my point.  But then again if none of these things happened 
then there wouldn't be much of a story either huh....  The only thing 
I guess that can solve this is JKR answering it for us.  But then 
maybe something like this will happen in the end.  When asked in a 
chat if the TT will be back her answer was "NOT TELLING!"  
Just a thought
Chancie
**********************************************************************




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Sep  7 20:04:16 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 20:04:16 -0000
Subject: Time-turner discussion
In-Reply-To: <chl0fh+dqj8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chl480+vobn@eGroups.com>

Chancie wrote:

>  why don't they 
> just use it to kill Tom Riddle when he's a baby so that no one has 
to 
> suffer from the things that he will do if given the chance.  It 
would 
> seem like the easiest fix for the whole situation.  

Well, there is the small problem of the justice, not to mention the 
legality, of killing a child who has committed no crime.

David, who thinks even adult Voldemort should get to call his lawyer




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Tue Sep  7 20:27:18 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:27:18 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Time-turner discussion
Message-ID: <1a3.293d131a.2e6f73a6@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/7/2004 1:05:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
dfrankiswork at netscape.net writes:
Well, there is the small problem of the justice, not to mention the 
legality, of killing a child who has committed no crime.

David, who thinks even adult Voldemort should get to call his lawyer

Yes, that is true of course, but what of going back in time to where Tom 
frames Hagrid for opening the Chamber of Secrets??  Send him to Azkaban, or even 
dule him then before he can get out to get the support of the DE and the result 
would still be the same.  Without of course the guilty concence of being a 
baby murder.  Of course Voldemort didn't seem to botherd by it when he tried to 
do the same to Harry!  Regardless of how it was done.  You can bet there has 
GOT to be something more to the TT than we know as of yet!!!
Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  7 23:17:59 2004
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:17:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The Witching Hour seeks volunteers!
Message-ID: <20040907231759.13752.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello!

The planning team for The Witching Hour is seeking
applicants for several key positions to join an active
and enthusiastic team of volunteers. To apply for one
of these positions, please email organizers @
witchinghour.org with a cover letter and resume. (You
may delete any personally identifying material.) 

Please do not think that we won't give you one of
these positions simply because you don't have much
experience in that area. A good cover letter can make
up for a lack of experience, in some cases. Your
position within the fandom also has no place in our
decision-making process. Who your friends are, whether
you're a BNF, what you ship, etc. are irrelevant to
us.

One more note before we get to the positions: We have
very high standards for these positions, and that is
why you have to specifically apply to be on a couple
of our teams. If you apply and are not chosen for one
of these positions, please do not take it as a
reflection of your personal value; we're incredibly
demanding and have very specific ideas about what
we're looking for. We want each and every one of you
on our teams, in one way or another. Please feel free
to contact Emily, Hallie or Amy at any time if you
have
questions about the positions or concerns about this
process or its results.

There is no deadline for submission of a cover letter
or resume. Our selection process will be a combination
of first-come and outstanding qualifications. Thus,
earlier submission is better, so long as your
submission accurately reflects your qualifications and
talents.

Thanks again for your enthusiasm and eagerness. We
look forward to working with all of you.

Emily, Hallie, and Amy
Event Organizers
The Witching Hour




Beta Booth Coordinator 
The beta booth coordinator will assist in targeting
applicants for the beta booth, and will assist in
scheduling and communicating with beta readers who
will staff the booth at the symposium. 

Assistant Workshops Coordinator  
The assistant workshops coordinator will work with the
workshops coordinator on projects as needed.

Fundraising and Sponsorship Coordinator 
The fundraising and sponsorship coordinator will be a
point of contact for merchants who wish to sponsor
some aspect of The Witching Hour, and will lead
fundraising efforts. Candidates should have excellent
written and oral communication skills, and experience
with fundraising, accounting, or a related field. This
coordinator will be resposible for coordinating a
fundraising team in conjunction with existing
volunteer areas. 

Corporate and Fandom Sponsorship 
The corporate and fandom sponsorship volunteer(s) will
be web-connected, available volunteers with excellent
written and oral communication skills. Attention to
detail, familiarity with databases, and fandom 
knowledge are pluses.

Publishing Coordinator 
The publishing coordinator will be responsible for
compiling and publishing a compendium of The Witching
Hour's programming, including acquisition of copyright
licenses from authors, copyediting and publication.  

Public Relations
The Witching Hour continues to seek volunteers with
experience or a demonstrated interest in public
relations or marketing. In particular, this group is
in need of a Fandom Promotions coordinator, so a broad
knowledge of fandom sites, archives, and news outlets
is desirable, as is fandom participation on some
level.

Logistics 
The Witching Hour continues to seek volunteers for the
Logistics team. Proximity to Salem is a plus, but not
necessary. Most Logistics volunteers are assigned to
answer questions about a single venue or lodging
provider.

Legal
The Witching Hour seeks additional attorneys, law
clerks and paralegals. Experience or interest in
intellectual property law or non-profit tax law is
desireable.  Tasks may include monitoring conference
planning for legal issues and questions, drafting and
revising contracts, and preparing state tax filings. 
Please feel free to volunteer in only one area of
expertise or planning.

Art, Writing, and Music
The Witching Hour seeks an art professor, a
professional writer or writing professor, and
professor of music for its vetting team. 


Don't worry if you aren't interested in that kind of
responsibility or you only want to help out at the
conference. We have volunteer opportunities for folks
who cannot attend and we'll need people down the road
to be Salem Elves and work shifts at the conference 
information desk, security, Chasers, A/V personnel,
etc. If you are interested in that sort of volunteer
work, please feel free to e-mail volunteers @
witchinghour.org or join yahoogroup wh_volunteers,
and we'll find you a place on our team.

For more information about The Witching Hour, visit
http://www.witchinghour.org/


______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From shalimar07 at aol.com  Tue Sep  7 23:28:59 2004
From: shalimar07 at aol.com (shalimar07 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:28:59 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jkr's website FAN SITES
Message-ID: <7A77B8FD.01A6EEDA.0CA92480@aol.com>

Who did you want to know about.  Frank Longbottom is Neville Longbottoms dad (he is still alive).  Bellatrix Black (aka LeStrange) is Sirius cousin. (Bellatrix is still alive.)

Mary



From shalimar07 at aol.com  Tue Sep  7 23:33:32 2004
From: shalimar07 at aol.com (shalimar07 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:33:32 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Time-turner discussion
Message-ID: <57C8961C.2EDC7BD6.0CA92480@aol.com>

I personally think they should go back and tell Tom's Dad his wife is a witch before anything has a chance to happen.  That would end it all.

Mary



From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Tue Sep  7 23:52:21 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:52:21 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jkr's website FAN SITES
Message-ID: <12c.4b4a64c5.2e6fa3b5@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/7/2004 4:31:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
shalimar07 at aol.com writes:
Who did you want to know about.  Frank Longbottom is Neville Longbottoms dad 
(he is still alive).  Bellatrix Black (aka LeStrange) is Sirius cousin. 
(Bellatrix is still alive.)

Yes that was kind of my point.  The fact that they are on trophy's right 
along with those that are dead.  And Percy Weasly is on one and one that says "HA" 
and the rest of the name covered.  I was wondering if this is a clue as to 
who will die.  "HA" I figure means either Harry or Hagrid.  Does anyone have any 
other explinations as to why their names were on the trophy's.

Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Tue Sep  7 23:54:44 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:54:44 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Time-turner discussion
Message-ID: <c8.4c76cf23.2e6fa444@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/7/2004 4:47:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
shalimar07 at aol.com writes:
I personally think they should go back and tell Tom's Dad his wife is a witch 
before anything has a chance to happen.  That would end it all.

Mary

Yes that would solve it as well.  Then you don't have to even worry about 
killing him at all.  It kinda reminds me of the first Terminater movie.  Kill 
Sarah befor John has a chance to be born.  Interesting theory.  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Wed Sep  8 00:16:02 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:16:02 EDT
Subject: Suzanne - Mira Nair
Message-ID: <12e.4b29c2d0.2e6fa942@aol.com>

> "I am very happy about this possibility as well. I have been impressed
with Monsoon Wedding and Mississippi Masala. I am also impressed with
the trend the producers are exhibiting in the choice of directors:
top-drawer people, like Cuaron and Newell,  who are not primarily
known for directing children's films, like Columbus. This gives me 
very high hopes for the future of the Harry Potter films.

Suzanne" <

Suzanne,
Or anyone else for that matter .... have you seen Nair's "Vanity Fair" ?  I 
went this past week end and as I watched it, the entire time, all I could think 
of was how she might choose to shoot OoP!!  A bit distracting.  Oh, and then, 
the guy who plays the crazy flat-mate in Notting Hill was in it and played a 
complete gentleman!!  What a change from Notting Hill.  I would have to say he 
is quite versatile as an actor.  Oh, and by the way, I did enjoy VF very much 
and thought Nair did a good job.  :)

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Wed Sep  8 00:20:05 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:20:05 EDT
Subject: JKR's fansite page-awards
Message-ID: <127.4a737a58.2e6faa35@aol.com>

> "Just wondering if anyone else notice that on the Fan Sites Page, that 
the names on the trophy's are in the most part people who are dead? 
[Lily Evens, James..(last name coverd I assume it's Potter) Sirius 
Black... ]With the exception of "Percy Weasley" (silver cup behind 
the scrol), "Frank Longbottom" (top shelf), and a cup second from the 
middle (beside the one with Percy's name)that show's the letters "HA."
Could this be a clue as to who will die?  OH, and "Tom Riddle" has 2 
plaques with his name inscribed.  Does any one have a clue to what 
this means???  I figure the "HA" means either Harry(of course), or 
Hagrid.  What do you think?" <

I have noticed those awards at her site.  I do recall Harry and Ron receiving 
"special awards" from Dumbledore in one of the last scenes of CoS ... perhaps 
thats the "HA" one you see.  I don't recall Percy doing anything spectacular, 
so maybe that is yet to come!  Maybe he IS a spy for the Order after all???  
Hhhmmmmmmmmm  Something to contemplate.

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Wed Sep  8 00:21:52 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:21:52 EDT
Subject: tomato & garlic dilemma
Message-ID: <1e2.2a30f36c.2e6faaa0@aol.com>

Who ever asked for suggestions for the tomato and garlic, I always suggest 
people make some bruschetta with the tomato, garlic, olive oil and basil.   It's 
nice on toasted french bread slices.


"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Wed Sep  8 00:24:38 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:24:38 EDT
Subject: Time turner discussion - Dudemom
Message-ID: <15d.3ea763e0.2e6fab46@aol.com>

> "If I can find some of the posts on this topic I will let you know.
Dudemom_2000 " <


Thanks for your research efforts and for your input!  I agree that  the time 
turner will be of some importance in the following books.  I can hardly stand 
the wait anymore ... wish that 6th book would be released!


"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 01:26:04 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] tomato & garlic dilemma
In-Reply-To: <1e2.2a30f36c.2e6faaa0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040908012604.95164.qmail@web53501.mail.yahoo.com>



LunaLovesHarry at aol.com wrote:
Who ever asked for suggestions for the tomato and garlic, I always suggest 
people make some bruschetta with the tomato, garlic, olive oil and basil.   It's 
nice on toasted french bread slices.


"Luna"
-------------


I have a great dog treat recipe that uses tomato and garlic if anyone wants it (one of my 300+ that I have).

moonmyyst


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tigerlily.e at gmail.com  Wed Sep  8 03:59:00 2004
From: tigerlily.e at gmail.com (TL)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:59:00 -0700
Subject: Time-turner discussion
In-Reply-To: <1094549718.1654.509.m12@yahoogroups.com>
References: <1094549718.1654.509.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <d2d4ceb1040907205931c06b67@mail.gmail.com>

Hii! As I'm rather new myself, I'm not sure if there's been a
discussion concerning this already (if there has, someone feel free
shush me), but I'll take a stab at it.

There is a problem concerning time travel--that is, one cannot (if one
follows logical reasoning), actually change time. Supposedly there is
a "Grandfather Paradox"--if one goes back in time to kill one's
grandfather while he is young, then what happens?

Well, since that would negate you existing, thus you couldn't go back
in time, thus your grandfather would still be alive...it's just not
possible. Something would prevent you from achieving your goal.

Or you could open an alternate universe...but that's a whoooole
'nother cat to let out of the bag.

Basically, if one goes back in time one perpetuates events that've
happened (Such as Cuaron sticking the rock-throwing in PoA...and when
Harry can cast a patronus large enough to throw of the dementors
because "I'd already done it")

I hope I've not sent you all to sleep, XD.

-TL, the rather boring sci-fi fan. (El Goonish Shive! I *love* El
Goonish Shive!)



From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 04:48:54 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 04:48:54 -0000
Subject: The Symbols on the Fan-Site Award
Message-ID: <chm2vm+kbc5@eGroups.com>

While checking out the new FSA, I noticed that the award itself has
four symbols on its shield: a book, a heart, a crystal ball, and a
lightning bolt. JKR must have had someting to do with this -- does
anyone suppose they are clues, or just obvious symbols from the books?
Some of each, maybe?

Suppose they all relate to how Harry defeats Voldemort. There's the
lightning scar, of course -- the connection to LV. Naturally. The
crystal ball brings the prophecy to mind. The heart could be for
what's behind the locked door at the DoM. And the book -- I don't
know, Hogwarts, a History? Maybe Harry'll finally crack it open and
learn something! :D

Or they could, maybe, symbolise people. So, the lightning bolt for
Harry, the book for Hermione...  Hmmm. Ron, now -- well, if he's a
seer as some theorise, the crystal ball works for him.  Which leaves
the heart to symbolise, what? The bond between them, maybe?  But if
Ron's not a seer, could he be the heart, then? "Heart" as in "courage"
such as he showed during the chess match in PS/SS and in the Shrieking
Shack in PoA. Which would leave the crystal ball. Dumbledore, who
foresaw and arranged so much?

'Course, none of this seems to have anything in particular with
commending the best fan sites, does it? Ah, well...

Annemehr





From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Wed Sep  8 16:53:36 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:53:36 EDT
Subject: continued time-turner discussion
Message-ID: <8c.146c743e.2e709310@aol.com>

I'm enjoying the time-turner discussion and reading everyones thoughts on the 
possibilities.  I'm glad I brought it up.  :)  Whoever suggested someone go 
back far enough to tell Riddles father that his wife is a witch had a good 
idea.  :)  But like someone else said, going so far back and changing so much of 
history might actually make it all seem "like it was a dream", and lord knows 
we dont' need another "Bobby never died in Dallas" scenario.   Another thought 
... we don't know much about family backgrounds ... like where Snape came 
from, or any of the other professors, so changing history through TT travels might 
some affect them, or a greater number of people in the wake of one change!  
Speaking of Snape ... DO we know anything about his family?  I don't recall.


"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Wed Sep  8 16:56:16 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:56:16 EDT
Subject: my very own time turner!
Message-ID: <11.3306f2a5.2e7093b0@aol.com>

In case you're interested in getting your own time turner, here is the link.  
:)

http://www.noblecollection.com/catalog/catalog.cfm?catid=21

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenniferjold at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 17:50:56 2004
From: jenniferjold at yahoo.com (jenniferjold)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:50:56 -0000
Subject: Time-turner discussion
In-Reply-To: <e4.5762412d.2e6ddd77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <chngq0+ki9a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> I was wondering if there has been a thread of 
discussion/speculation that Harry would use the time-turner to 
prevent or avenge his parents death?  Would he go back that far in 
time and as the young adult Harry, duel with Voldemort to prevent his 
parents death, thus re-writing his own future?  There would be no 
Dursley's to contend with, Sirius wouldn't die, he'd grow up with his 
parents, etc.  I would imagine there has been some discussion about 
that idea previously, so if there has, and someone cares to share the 
condensed version of it with me, I'd appreciate it.   
Thanks, "Luna" <



I don't think that JKR would have Harry go back in time like this.  
She's pretty well established that messing with time is tricky 
business and you have to be very careful not to screw things up.  If 
Harry went back and saved his parents, his life growing up would have 
been COMPLETELY different.  He wouldn't have had chance to battle 
with evil so many times while growing up and get good at it.  And as 
a consequence, when he was old enough to go back in time and fight 
Voldemort, he wouldn't know how.  ~jenn




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Wed Sep  8 18:34:29 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chncprmly)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:34:29 -0000
Subject: Snape Vampire?
Message-ID: <chnjbl+l1ak@eGroups.com>

I know this has been discussed before, because I've seen references 
to it.  But I guess I am just missing the so called "clues" Snape 
being a Vampire.  Could someone please give me the info. used to make 
this theory?  Many Thanks!

Chancie




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 19:36:04 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:36:04 -0000
Subject: Reposted from Main List: The SNEAK Mark, Scarlet Letters, and Megan's Law
Message-ID: <chnmv4+6jg2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" 
<delwynmarch at y...> wrote:

> Del replies :
> First, the Red Letter was not an injustice according to a majority 
of
> the society at the time, or it wouldn't have existed to start with.
> People at the time thought it acceptable to mark adulterous women, 
but
> we don't anymore. Similarly, 15-year-old kids might think it's
> acceptable to disfigure a schoolmate who crossed them, but I, at the
> age of 30, disagree strongly.
> 
> Second, the Jinx is very much an injustice, for multiple reasons : 
> 
> 1. Nobody was warned about it. They agreed not to tell, but there 
was
> never any mention of what would happen if they did, and especially
> there was no mention of something so dreadful. Marrietta was not 
given
> a choice to avoid the Sneak Mark, because she didn't know she was at
> risk of getting it. If Hermione had told them what could happen, and
> yet Marrietta had told Umbridge, then I wouldn't find it unfair. But
> Hermione didn't warn them.
> 
> 2. But, you will tell me, Marrietta did agree not to tell. All 
right.
> But who gave Hermione the right to decide of the type and the length
> of the punishment ? Hermione wasn't commissioned to do that, she
> wasn't even the DA's leader. She took the matter in her own hands
> without any authorisation. In-justice.
> 
> 3. You say it was a war situation. I agree. A war against Umbridge
> (not LV). Only problem is : Hermione *forcefully* enrolled the DA
> *before* making sure which side they were on to start with. Had she
> checked, she would have realised that she'd better keep Marrietta 
out
> of it, because Marrietta was almost naturally on Umbridge's side, 
not
> the DAs. Hermione forced Marrietta to betray Umbridge long before
> Marrietta betrayed the DA. The situation Hermione *unnecessarily* 
put
> Marrietta in was unfair.
> 
> And even if Marrietta had truly deserved her punishment, the Trio
> still showed an incredible lack of compassion by letting her go 
around
> disfigured. Hermione lost it all when Snape ignored her rabbit 
teeth,
> she *knows* what it's like to be disfigured, she also knows how hard
> it is for Harry to have people gaping at his scar, and yet she lets
> Marrietta walk around with a balaclava on her head. I'm 
disappointed.
> 
> Del

I am going to copy this post on OTC, because it it is getting far 
afield, and I would like to ask your opinion on a current day examplw 
of the Scarlet Letter.  How do you feel about "Megan's Law" and other 
laws requiring sex offenders to register their presence in their 
community?  I will say no more on the main list.  Off to OTC

Haggridd




From delwynmarch at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 19:55:44 2004
From: delwynmarch at yahoo.com (delwynmarch)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:55:44 -0000
Subject: Reposted from Main List: The SNEAK Mark, Scarlet Letters, and Megan's Law
In-Reply-To: <chnmv4+6jg2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chno40+85sh@eGroups.com>

Haggridd asked :
" How do you feel about "Megan's Law" and other laws requiring sex
offenders to register their presence in their community? "

Del :
I don't know about Megan's Law, but I do have an opinion about
requiring sex offenders to register their presence. As a victim of
abuse myself, I know only too well the damage it can do to kids. On
the other hand, I strongly believe in forgiveness. So I'm drawing my
personal line at the recidive. Abuse once, I forget and assume you can
and will change. Abuse again after having been punished once, and I
won't ever trust you again. Simple. So I'm of the opinion that
*recidivists* should have to register their presence.

After all, we have a saying in France : jamais deux sans trois. Never
two without three. And I don't want my kid to be number three.

Del




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 22:29:16 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:29:16 -0000
Subject: Reposted from Main List: The SNEAK Mark, Scarlet Letters, and Megan's Law
In-Reply-To: <chno40+85sh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cho13s+ugi0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" 
<delwynmarch at y...> wrote:
> Haggridd asked :
> " How do you feel about "Megan's Law" and other laws requiring sex
> offenders to register their presence in their community? "
> 
> Del :
I strongly believe in forgiveness. So I'm drawing my
> personal line at the recidive. Abuse once, I forget and assume you 
can
> and will change. Abuse again after having been punished once, and I
> won't ever trust you again. Simple. So I'm of the opinion that
> *recidivists* should have to register their presence.

> Del

OTOH, current medical opinion is that this is incurable.  How do you 
then justify putting child number 2 at risk of molestation by a known 
incurable sex offender?

As for hermione's mark, I don't think it is analogous either to a 
scarlet letter or rto egistering sex offenders, but it doesn't bother 
me that Marietta will have to put up with a few pimples for her 
betrayal of trust.  Hermione didn't twist her arm to join the DA.  We 
the readers know, and the members of DA have come to realize, that 
they are in a war for survival here.  I think that Hermione is 
functioning as a chief of staff to Commander-in-Chief Harry, wth Ron 
as Adjutant.

Haggridd




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Sep  8 23:24:15 2004
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 23:24:15 -0000
Subject: Snape Vampire?
In-Reply-To: <chnjbl+l1ak@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cho4av+efsg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "chncprmly" 
<chnc1024 at A...> wrote:
> I know this has been discussed before, because I've seen 
references 
> to it.  But I guess I am just missing the so called "clues" Snape 
> being a Vampire.  Could someone please give me the info. 
used to make 
> this theory?  Many Thanks!
> 


In brief: the many comparisons of Snape to a bat, Lupin's 
vampire essay assigned out of order after Snape's werewolf 
essay, JKR's illustration of Snape which  bears a marked 
resemblance to Bela Lugosi as Dracula, Snape's photophobia, 
'Severus Snape' sounds like 'sever his nape', Hermione's tooth 
incident (showing that fangs can be concealed), the Marauder's 
secret hiding place behind a mirror and their use of mirror magic 
to communicate with each other, Snape's fascination with his 
image in the Foe Glass, Snape's refusal to eat at Grimmauld 
Place, JKR's assurance that the Hogwarts House Elves can 
accomodate special diets, references to Snape as pale and 
gaunt with black empty eyes, Quirrell stuffing his classroom with 
garlic, references to vampires in all five books so far but no 
actual appearances ...that's all I can think of off hand. I believe 
there was a list at the lexicon at one point, but Steve, bless him, 
considers the theory squashed, so it may have been removed.


Against  the clues,  of course, you have to put JKR's erm, I don't 
think so  when asked if there were any links between Snape and 
vampires. Erm, indeed.

Pippin






From meidbh at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  8 23:34:17 2004
From: meidbh at yahoo.com (meidbh)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 23:34:17 -0000
Subject: From main site OT: Christmas at Hogwarts
Message-ID: <cho4tp+jhb4@eGroups.com>

Message 112412
Geoff:
"...in the UK, we call our holidays "Christmas"
and "Easter" because that is what they celebrated.It is only in the 
last few years that they have become linked with some of the ethnic 
minorities who have come to the UK largely since WWII."


Meidbh:

With respect - I think you are wrong here. There is a long history 
of non christian midwinter and spring celebrations in what is now 
Britain. These celebrations were in place *long* before the concept 
of Christianity came to these shores (brought by it's own ethnic 
minorities!). Many people nowadays celebrate christmas and easter as 
secular festivals and why not? It's the perfect opportunity to 
gather with loved ones, share food and gifts, give to the needy and 
celebrate the birth of a new year and the return of spring. A spirit 
and feeling by no means exclusively christian.

I wouldn't read too much into the celebration of Christmas at 
Hogwarts. If JKR wanted to make a religious statement she'd have 
included school prayers, a school chaplain or a school church. The 
absence of any of these in a school the size, age and location of 
Hogwarts is significant. A major theme of the books is inclusiveness 
and tolerance, and as at all the best parties, the expression of 
strong opinions regarding RW sex, politics or religion would be 
inappropriate.

MHO

Meidbh




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Wed Sep  8 23:35:21 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:35:21 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Snape Vampire?
Message-ID: <53.1573135a.2e70f139@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/8/2004 4:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
foxmoth at qnet.com writes:
Pippin                                                                        
                                  Against  the clues,  of course, you have to 
put JKR's erm, I don't 
think so  when asked if there were any links between Snape and 
vampires. Erm, indeed.

Hmm... now that you mention it I see how that could be seen as Snape as a 
Vampire.  Do you know when or where I can find JKR's statement on Snape.   I 
searched Lexicon before I posted, but found nothing.    Again thanks for your info!

Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Sep  9 04:04:06 2004
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 04:04:06 -0000
Subject: Reposted from Main List: The SNEAK Mark, Scarlet Letters, and Megan's Law
In-Reply-To: <cho13s+ugi0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <choknm+538b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd" 
<jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> As for hermione's mark, I don't think it is analogous either to a 
> scarlet letter or rto egistering sex offenders, but it doesn't 
bother me that Marietta will have to put up with a few pimples for 
her betrayal of trust.  Hermione didn't twist her arm to join the 
DA.<

Pippin:
It is very likely that Cho did some arm-twisting though, and from 
what she says, she wouldn't have done it if she'd known that 
Marietta was risking such retaliation if she wavered. 

The kids weren't invited to the meeting with the idea that they 
were going to fight Voldemort, they were told they were going to 
practice for OWLs. Hermione should have let them know the real 
purpose of the group before she got them to the meeting. After 
all, what if Marietta had refused to sign? Was Hermione planning 
to obliviate her?

I don't think the scarlet letter is analogous to Megan's law at all 
though. My memory of the book is hazy, but wasn't the 
expectation that Hester would slink away to some place where 
she was unknown, leaving her past and her letter behind her? 

The purpose of Megan's law is the opposite--the ex-offender 
can't lose himself in another town.

Pippin




From SongBird3411 at aol.com  Thu Sep  9 06:39:48 2004
From: SongBird3411 at aol.com (SongBird3411 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 06:39:48 -0000
Subject: Snape Vampire?
In-Reply-To: <53.1573135a.2e70f139@aol.com>
Message-ID: <chotrk+16av@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, chnc1024 at A... wrote:

> 
> Hmm... now that you mention it I see how that could be seen as 
Snape as a 
> Vampire.  Do you know when or where I can find JKR's statement on 
Snape.   I 
> searched Lexicon before I posted, but found nothing.    Again 
thanks for your info!
> 
> Chancie

I believe it is in the March 4th online chat.  The transcript is 
available at the Lexicon in the sources section.  I could be wrong 
about the exact source.  But, I know I read it in one of the sources 
at the Lexicon.

Mindy




From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Thu Sep  9 10:26:14 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloise_herisson)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:26:14 -0000
Subject: From main site OT: Christmas at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <cho4tp+jhb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chpb46+624o@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> "...in the UK, we call our holidays "Christmas"
> and "Easter" because that is what they celebrated.It is only in the 
> last few years that they have become linked with some of the ethnic 
> minorities who have come to the UK largely since WWII."
 
> Meidbh:
> 
> With respect - I think you are wrong here. There is a long history 
> of non christian midwinter and spring celebrations in what is now 
> Britain. These celebrations were in place *long* before the concept 
> of Christianity came to these shores (brought by it's own ethnic 
> minorities!). 

Yes, of course there was and that's why Christmas was timed when it 
was. Easter, of course is calculated by some complicated means which 
I can't remember in the same way or approximately the same way as the 
Passover, with which it is historically linked.

But....
As Geoff says, we *call* them the Christmas and Easter Holidays 
because in more recent historical times, those are the festivals that 
were being celebrated at those times in a largely culturally 
homogenous society. 

The holiday (vacation) aspect, pertaining to school, university and 
legal term breaks is rooted in the practice of institutions which 
were at the time basically Christian foundations. Hence the naming. 
Hence the fact that the the Easter holidays are not fixed, but move 
in accordance with the timing of Easter as, in days gone by, did the 
Whitsun break.*

That historical fact has nothing to do whatsoever with the reality of 
belief patterns in the UK or at Hogwarts. Or with what happened 
before the foundation of the educational and legal bodies which 
shaped the patterns of terms and vacations.

As Geoff says, only in more recent years have many people here become 
aware of others celebrating their own religious festivals at these 
times. In addition to the greater cultural diversity itself, I think 
that awareness of it is greater and of longer standing in the US for 
various historical/sociological reasons. Hence "Happy Holidays" 
instead of "Happy Christmas".

~Eloise

*In fact, state schools in some areas are now fixing the spring break 
without reference to the Easter, though people still seem to be 
referring to it as the "Easter" break. 




From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Thu Sep  9 10:30:40 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloise_herisson)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:30:40 -0000
Subject: Snape Vampire?
In-Reply-To: <chotrk+16av@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chpbcg+6v72@eGroups.com>

Chancie:
> > Hmm... now that you mention it I see how that could be seen as 
> Snape as a 
> > Vampire.  Do you know when or where I can find JKR's statement on 
> Snape.   I 
> > searched Lexicon before I posted, but found nothing.    Again 
> thanks for your info!
> > 
> > 
Mindy:
> I believe it is in the March 4th online chat.  The transcript is 
> available at the Lexicon in the sources section.  I could be wrong 
> about the exact source.  But, I know I read it in one of the 
sources 
> at the Lexicon.




http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/2004/jkrowling_chat.html

>>Megan: Is there a link between Snape and vampires?
JK Rowling replies -> Erm... I don't think so.<<

Err, that's it. Make of it what you will.

~Eloise




From shalimar07 at aol.com  Thu Sep  9 12:22:40 2004
From: shalimar07 at aol.com (shalimar07 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:22:40 EDT
Subject: Speaking of Snape
Message-ID: <144.33205212.2e71a510@aol.com>



The only thing we know of Snape's pass was what we say in OOTP.  When Harry 
was in occlumency lessons - Chapter 25  "Snape staggered: his wand flew upward, 
away from Harry --- and suddenly Harry's mind was teeming with memories that 
were not his --- a hook nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a 
small dark haired boy cried in a corner.... A greasy - haired teenager sat alone 
in a dark bedroom, pointing his wand at the ceiling, shooting down flies... A 
girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a broomstick---"  
Then of course the penseive scene with Harry's Father, Sirius, Lupin and 
Peter..humiliating Snape at 15.

In a message dated 9/8/2004 11:55:36 AM Central Standard Time, 
LunaLovesHarry at aol.com writes:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From garybec at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  9 18:09:08 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:09:08 -0000
Subject: Jkr's website FAN SITES
In-Reply-To: <12c.4b4a64c5.2e6fa3b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <chq684+i6cl@eGroups.com>

, 
> shalimar07 at a... writes:
> Who did you want to know about.  Frank Longbottom is Neville 
Longbottoms dad 
> (he is still alive).  Bellatrix Black (aka LeStrange) is Sirius 
cousin. 
> (Bellatrix is still alive.)
> 
> Yes that was kind of my point.  The fact that they are on trophy's 
right 
> along with those that are dead.  And Percy Weasly is on one and 
one that says "HA" 
> and the rest of the name covered.  I was wondering if this is a 
clue as to 
> who will die.  "HA" I figure means either Harry or Hagrid.  Does 
anyone have any 
> other explinations as to why their names were on the trophy's.
> 
> Chancie
> 
> 
Becki:
I posted that idea a long time ago, but I missed the HA one and was 
horrified that I even thought that Harry could die.  But then I 
realized it could be Hagrid, but now, what about Half-Blood Prince?

I am afraid truthfully that we won't know if there is any hidden 
meaning to the trophy room on Jo's website until the end.

Becki




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Thu Sep  9 18:22:15 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:22:15 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jkr's website FAN SITES
Message-ID: <fa.a2b65a.2e71f957@aol.com>

> 
Becki:
I posted that idea a long time ago, but I missed the HA one and was 
horrified that I even thought that Harry could die.  But then I 
realized it could be Hagrid, but now, what about Half-Blood Prince?

I am afraid truthfully that we won't know if there is any hidden 
meaning to the trophy room on Jo's website until the end.

Becki
>>>>

Oh I'm sorry.  I didn't know that you posted this already.  It is very hard 
to look up previous posts, it just doesn't seem to work well for me.  You 
probably are right about not knowing until the end if a hidden meaning is there.  
JKR is DEFINATLY and expert at getting people to over analize the little things 
in order to miss the real clues.  I have a feeling the HBP will be a well 
known character.  Maybe Hagrid, or I even found that Lupin is half-blood as well 
(I found it in a chat script, I can find it if you need it, but I can't 
remember where I found it off hand.) but there are countless possiblities.  Your 
thoughts?

Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sydenmill at msn.com  Thu Sep  9 20:56:11 2004
From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:56:11 -0000
Subject: For Our Florida Friends
Message-ID: <chqg1b+lhec@eGroups.com>


This is an oldie but goodie. Hope the chuckle helps ease the tension.

"Hurricane Preparedness
(by Dave Barry)

No doubt you have been waiting to hear about my harrowing experiences 
during Hurricane Georges.

The worst moment came when my body was being tossed around violently, 
attacked by savage, uncontrollable forces of terrifying power. This 
happened in the supermarket two days before Georges arrived.

Going to the supermarket is a tradition for us hurricane veterans in 
the Miami area. When we hear that a hurricane is coming, we calmly 
and efficiently implement our Hurricane Preparation Plan, which is: 
(1) Panic; and (2) Buy random stuff.

One thing we always buy is bleach. Even if we already have - and many 
of us do - 25 bottles of bleach at home, we buy more. We have no idea 
why; we never actually use it.

Maybe we secretly believe that the hurricane is afraid of bleach. Or 
maybe Clorox hires actors to go to supermarkets, posing as hurricane 
veterans and loudly remarking, "After Hurricane Andrew, the thing 
that saved our lives was bleach!" Whatever the cause, there's
always 
a desperate, shoving mob in the bleach aisle, and if you're lucky 
enough to actually get a bottle, you must guard your shopping cart 
with firearms (which, in Miami, are sold in the firearms aisle).

Once you have your bleach, you race frantically around the 
supermarket buying a massive supply of Emergency Hurricane Food, 
defined as "food that you will never actually consume, even if the 
alternative is to eat your sofa." You find yourself fighting with 
people for the last dust-covered can of Del Monte Lima Beans With 
Prune Parts in Hearty Clam Broth.

During this phase, the supermarket employees often play pranks on the 
shoppers. (I put out a dozen cans labeled `Sheep Vomit,' and
they 
were gone in SECONDS!")

The supermarket frenzy is one of the most dangerous times in any 
hurricane. I was almost struck by an elderly woman pushing a shopping 
cart containing bleach and at least 7,000 pounds of cat food at a 
sustained velocity of 28 miles per hour (the National Weather Service 
defines this as a "category 4 Shopper").

Finally I made it home, where I implemented the next phase of the 
Hurricane Preparation Plan: watching the TV weather experts 
demonstrate, using meteorological science and state-of-the-art 
satellite and computer technology, that they have no idea what is 
going on.

They stand in front of their giant, complex weather maps and say 
things like: "....the path that the hurricane will take depends on 
whether this system here moves any closer to this system over here, 
which would cause this other system to become jealous of this system, 
which is secretly having an affair with this system, unaware that 
this system here is the illegitimate child of this system and the 
gardener, Raoul. On the other hand, if THIS system...."

The irony was, I knew exactly where the hurricane was going. It had 
nothing to do with so-called "meteorology": It had to do with my 
hurricane shutters. Hurricane shutters are metal panels that many 
residents of hurricane zones keep in their garages under a protective 
blanket of dead spiders.

These panels are scientifically engineered such that, if you fasten 
them correctly to all your windows, you will have long bleeding 
gashes on both hands. Also you will guarantee that the hurricane will 
not come. A hurricane can, using its eye, see whether you have your 
shutters up, and if you do, it will go somewhere else, emitting 
powerful gusting chuckles.

Ordinarily, I would have had my shutters up, thereby keeping Georges 
away, but as it happens, this year I ordered new shutters (the edges 
of the old ones were getting dull). As Georges was forming, workmen 
(1) took away all my old shutters and (2) Piled new shutters and 
hardware all around my house. This presented Georges with a rare 
opportunity: Not only could it destroy my house; it could destroy my 
house by whacking it to pieces with my new hurricane shutters. So 
Georges aimed straight for my house. If the weather experts had 
known, they could have just said, "Hurricane Georges is currently at 
latitude X and longitude Y, and is going to Dave Barry's house.

Fortunately, I happen to be a pretty handy "do-it-yourselfer," so 
rather than leave the new shutters lying on the ground, I was able, 
using my natural mechanical ability, to beg the workmen to put them 
up. So they did, and Georges immediately swerved away. (I sincerely 
apologize to the people it hit, but at that point, I was no longer 
steering.)

For the remainder of the hurricane, I watched the TV coverage, which 
consisted mainly of TV reporters in bright yellow rain slickers going 
into evacuation zones and asking the residents, in highly judgmental 
tones, why they did not evacuate. Just once, I wanted to hear a 
resident answer: "Hey, I'm here because I LIVE here. What's
YOUR 
excuse, Hairspray Boy?"

Anyway, I'm glad hurricane season is almost over. And I decided
that 
I'm not going to wait until the "last minute" to get ready for
the 
next season. That's right: I have already bleached my shutters!"

Prayers for all of us in Florida,
Bohcoo
Sarasota, Florida





From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  9 22:41:47 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:41:47 -0000
Subject: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <chqg1b+lhec@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chqm7b+ltpc@eGroups.com>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/24251

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bohcoo" <sydenmill at m...> 
wrote:
> 
> This is an oldie but goodie. Hope the chuckle helps ease the 
tension.
> 
> "Hurricane Preparedness
> (by Dave Barry)
> >Big Snip<<
> Anyway, I'm glad hurricane season is almost over. And I decided
> that I'm not going to wait until the "last minute" to get ready for
> the next season. That's right: I have already bleached my 
shutters!"
> 
> Prayers for all of us in Florida,
> Bohcoo
> Sarasota, Florida

*****\(@@)/*****

Great one! Seems like that is always true. If you are prepared, it 
will never happen! Maybe that is why I always watch wings on 
airplanes! *grin*

You all still have my prayers since it seems another one is on the 
way. Hopefully it won't hit Florida, though landing anywhere is 
going to be bad. May Ivan be not so terrible and the last one of the 
season.

We are still hoping to get to Marco Island next month if it hasn't 
blown away...

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep 10 00:01:58 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:01:58 -0000
Subject: From main site OT: Christmas at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <cho4tp+jhb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chqqtm+3b4d@eGroups.com>

Meidbh wrote:

> If JKR wanted to make a religious statement she'd have 
> included school prayers, a school chaplain or a school church. The 
> absence of any of these in a school the size, age and location of 
> Hogwarts is significant. A major theme of the books is 
inclusiveness 
> and tolerance, and as at all the best parties, the expression of 
> strong opinions regarding RW sex, politics or religion would be 
> inappropriate.

I'm still very much in two minds about whether there is - or will 
turn out to be - much of a religious message in Harry Potter.  I 
don't see a strong resemblance (even though others do) to CS Lewis 
and JRR Tolkien in that regard.  It's certainly possible to have a 
strong Christian message without reference to prayers and so forth, 
even in a school story, simply by expressing the message 
symbolically.

However, I don't feel that the expression of a strong opinion about 
religion (or sex or politics) is inappropriate because a major theme 
is inclusiveness and tolerance.  After all, IMO being strongly in 
favour of inclusiveness is in itself a strong political opinion, and 
one which is often based on a religious belief.

That religion, politics, and sex are not discussed at parties is 
surely merely a quirk of the late 20th and early 21st Century west, 
and our descendants will doubtless laugh at us for being so 
repressed.

David




From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Thu Sep  9 23:22:51 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (rynne_lupin)
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:22:51 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Vinnia!
Message-ID: <chqokb+pki4@eGroups.com>

*bounces into the room, beaming* Hello, all!  I'm having such a 
marvelous day, and isn't that a great time for a birthday? :D

Today's, September 9th's, honoree is Vinnia 
vinnia_chrysshallie at yahoo.co.nz, though now that I look at her email 
address, I see she's from New Zealand and so it's already the tenth 
there, so happy belated birthday!

*starts dragging out the boxes full of decorations* We really have 
some nice streamers today...*pulls out streamers and starts hanging 
them* Aren't they lovely?

And let's not forget the cake!  Excuse me while I go get it...*pops 
out, and soon pops back in with a large cake* Dig in, everyone!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, VINNIA!

--Rynny the birthday elf




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 04:36:44 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:36:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <chqm7b+ltpc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040910043644.99524.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>



dudemom_2000 <dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
You all still have my prayers since it seems another one is on the 
way. Hopefully it won't hit Florida, though landing anywhere is 
going to be bad. May Ivan be not so terrible and the last one of the 
season.

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****



I will keep my fingers crossed and light a candle for you guys.  I am just a bit north of yall so if anyone wants to stop by when evacuating and pet one of my dogs, get a drink of water, go to the bathroom, or even stay a while, let me know.  I am in Georgia but lived on Galveston Island for about 10 years so understand completely about watching for these monsters!!

moonmyyst


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From redina at silverbloom.net  Fri Sep 10 08:00:34 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:00:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <chqg1b+lhec@eGroups.com>
References: <chqg1b+lhec@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3249.4.12.232.10.1094803234.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

bohcoo said:

> defined as "food that you will never actually consume, even if the
> alternative is to eat your sofa." You find yourself fighting with
> people for the last dust-covered can of Del Monte Lima Beans With
> Prune Parts in Hearty Clam Broth.

There's actually a canned product called Potted Possum--I've seen it
during a visit to Virginia.  On the label, next to the 'electrocuted'
possum pic, it says roadkill from the Carolina highways is scraped off and
processed for your eating enjoyment.  Actually, if you look past the
'humour', it's canned chili sauce.  Although, I think there is 'potted
possum'... just not the roadkill kind, I hope.


> Finally I made it home, where I implemented the next phase of the
> Hurricane Preparation Plan: watching the TV weather experts

I was watching a fundraising commercial and they said it was to benefit
those heavily hit by Hurricane Charley and I thought 'they need to keep up
with the times - y'all should add on "*and* Hurricane Frances"'.

As to Ivan, personally, too early to comment.  I'm still feeling okay,
even though I did get hurricane damage and had to repair privacy fences.

Dina




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 11:16:52 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:16:52 -0000
Subject: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <20040910043644.99524.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <chs2f4+kgoq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
>lived on Galveston Island for about 10 years so understand 
completely about watching for these monsters!!

Wow.  Did you meet anybody who knew anything about the terrible flood?

A.J.




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 14:13:05 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:13:05 -0000
Subject: Florida's flowing with tears....
Message-ID: <chscph+l6r7@eGroups.com>

I cant believe there is another Hurricane heading towards us. We had 
enough. We are so worn out that a lot of people are crying and upset 
about this. I been watching the news and I cry when I see what 
people are going through. We were lucky over were we live but people 
still have water rising especially near the rivers and they say they 
dont think that there houses will survive the next hurricane at all 
because there is so much water. Cant we just get a break?
Now they are projecting the Hurricane to come to Tampa as a Category 
3 or 4 by Tuesday. If it comes to Florida I am packing up my fiance 
and his mother, my cat, and my dog and a few blongings and head to 
my future brother-In-laws house in Ohio and stay there until 
Hurricane season is over with. I lived here my whole life and I 
never seen so many Hurricanes come this way so many times. I 
remember maybe one or two come and they go the other way the other 
times to Texas or some other part of Gulf Coast or Atlantic. Can God 
gives us a break. We need time to catch our breaths and rebuild our 
hearts so we can get through another one. Especially cleaning up 
from Charley and Frances there is just way to much debris and water.
Ok Devil you had your fun its time to stop your not winning here.
Sorry guys and gals I had to get my frustrations out in the open and 
out of my head before I go crazy.

Tasha




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 16:04:17 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:04:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <chs2f4+kgoq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040910160418.48919.qmail@web53506.mail.yahoo.com>



"A.J." <ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
>lived on Galveston Island for about 10 years so understand 
completely about watching for these monsters!!

Wow.  Did you meet anybody who knew anything about the terrible flood?

A.J.


It is a really big deal there.  My son was even in a play about it.  The stories around it are really fascinating.  I am surprised a movie has not been made about it.  People hanging on to the statue on Broadway - about 4 stories up - and seeing things sweeping past.  Over 5000 people dead.  Trying to bury people at sea because there were too many and them washing back up.  Amazing stories.  And then how they elevated the island and every thing on it (yes, they put the houses on stilts and ran sidewalks while they hauled in sand from the gulf) about 10 feet and built the seawall so it would not happen again.  I was increadibly impressed and humbled by the people there.

moonmyyst


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

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From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 16:15:46 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Florida's flowing with tears....
In-Reply-To: <chscph+l6r7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040910161546.40716.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>



Tasha <bruney200 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Cant we just get a break?
Now they are projecting the Hurricane to come to Tampa as a Category 3 or 4 by Tuesday. If it comes to Florida I am packing up my fiance and his mother, my cat, and my dog and a few blongings and head to my future brother-In-laws house in Ohio and stay there until Hurricane season is over with. 

 

Tasha, 

You are in all of our thoughts.  You are going through a very trying time and we can all feel for you.  Leaving (even for a few days) is a tough decision to make.  Remember, things can be bought.  Houses can be built.  You just make sure you and your loved ones are safe.  Make sure that at least is not taken away from you.  If you do go to Ohio for a few weeks, see it as a chance to be with family and be loved on for a while.  Believe it or not (and with all that water you may be thinking not) Florida will be there when you get back.  Also, remember that years like this are usually only once in a generation or two.  That is why they are so unusual.  When you get back and life gets back to normal, you will be able to believe that.  Just stay safe!!!

moonmyyst


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Fri Sep 10 20:57:24 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:57:24 EDT
Subject: snapes background
Message-ID: <19b.29a8a1c9.2e736f34@aol.com>

> ..."occlumency lessons - Chapter 25  "Snape staggered: his wand flew 
upward, 
away from Harry --- and suddenly Harry's mind was teeming with memories that 
were not his --- a hook nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a 
small dark haired boy cried in a corner.... A greasy - haired teenager sat 
alone 
in a dark bedroom, pointing his wand at the ceiling, shooting down flies... A 

girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a broomstick---"  
Then of course the penseive scene with Harry's Father, Sirius, Lupin and 
Peter..humiliating Snape at 15." <


Yes, thats right.  I remembered the marauders tormenting him, but forgot 
about the discription of the father and mother.  I wonder if this negates the 
"vampire" theory, as Harry didn't describe the parents as vampires.  I suppose 
that could have come AFTER the childhood ..... who knows!!  I don't think he is a 
vampire, even though he is dark (looking) like one.  I think we will learn 
more about Snapes history in book 6 though ... he is very secretive about his 
comings and goings and duties for the order!!

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep 10 21:42:53 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:42:53 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter reference
Message-ID: <cht74t+7dhi@eGroups.com>

Any one see Green Wing tonight?

David




From fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 10 22:20:00 2004
From: fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com (Lady Martha)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:20:00 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter reference
In-Reply-To: <cht74t+7dhi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cht9ag+5dmr@eGroups.com>

David: 

> Any one see Green Wing tonight?

Well, I did (but then I could just be saying that. It could be a 
Slytherin trick). 

;-D

Martha




From meidbh at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 23:12:41 2004
From: meidbh at yahoo.com (meidbh)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:12:41 -0000
Subject: From main site OT: Christmas at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <chqqtm+3b4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chtcd9+p0cj@eGroups.com>

Davewitley:
"That religion, politics, and sex are not discussed at parties is 
surely merely a quirk of the late 20th and early 21st Century west, 
and our descendants will doubtless laugh at us for being so 
repressed."

Meidbh:
Oh dear, I most definitely did not mean to come out in support of 
repression or supression of opinions *shiver shiver*. What I was 
trying to get across was that it's not so much an issue of subject 
matter but of context of expression. There are some environments 
where it makes sense to avoid issues that can provoke strongly 
polarised opinions. Argument as intellectual debate can be great fun 
when you know the players, but when you don't (ie the party context) 
there is always a risk that your debate can cause offence, anger, 
upset, alienate people and generally be counterproductive. 

So how does this tie into HP and religious themes? Well one of the 
many reasons the HP books have had such mass appeal is that  
references to the RW are kept general enough that a reader from 
almost any background can "fill in the blanks" and make the book 
their own. Readers in Beijing or Mumbai or London could all imagine 
themselves at Hogwarts casting spells at Harry's side. It truly is 
an incredible thing to tell a story so well that people all over the 
world listen and are enthralled. IMVVHO an overt association with 
any specific religious or political belief system would break this 
spell. 

Meidbh :-)





From alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep 10 23:32:39 2004
From: alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk (alshainofthenorth)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:32:39 -0000
Subject: Prophecies and saviours
Message-ID: <chtdin+kkvq@eGroups.com>

Are there any fantasy geeks around who are up to a discussion about 
prophecy and destiny as fantasy plot devices?

It struck me when I was in another forum, reading a thread about 
Fantasy Clich?s We Can't Stand, that in the last fantasy wave (think 
Lucas, Eddings, Jordan, Rowling, Pullman and probably some more) it's 
been foretold that the Chosen One will be born to strike down the Bad 
Guy/bring balance to The Force/become the new Eve/whatever. The 
prophecy element has become such an over-used plot device that I'm 
going to scream if I see it written one more time. I prefer my heroes 
more like Frodo Baggins and Sam Gamgee -- people who haven't been 
selected by destiny, who could have chosen not to go but did it 
anyway.

I've been looking for the common root to this element, and even 
though I suspect that the deepest ones go back to the Messianic 
tradition of the Jewish and Christian religions, there may be newer 
roots in classical fantasy, but I can't seem to find them. Tolkien, 
if I remember correctly, used prophetic elements sparingly (Aragorn 
and the Paths of the Dead is a subplot), and I can't recall anything 
about King Arthur's birth being foretold by seers either.

When and why did this prophecy element become so important?

Alshain the Curious     




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 23:46:07 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:46:07 -0000
Subject: Hurricane Support Group.....
Message-ID: <chtebv+gs4m@eGroups.com>

Hey guys and gals I made a new group for people who want to get love 
and support that are going through a lot during Hurricane season. 
Please join it will help a lot to give each other love and comfort 
during these trying times.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hurricane_Support_Group/

Tasha





From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 10 23:52:27 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:52:27 -0000
Subject: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <20040910160418.48919.qmail@web53506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <chtenr+stcb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> 
wrote:
> >lived on Galveston Island for about 10 years so understand 
> completely about watching for these monsters!!
> 
> Wow.  Did you meet anybody who knew anything about the terrible 
flood?
> 
> A.J.
> 
> 
> It is a really big deal there.  My son was even in a play about 
it.  The stories around it are really fascinating.  I am surprised a 
movie has not been made about it.  People hanging on to the statue 
on Broadway - about 4 stories up - and seeing things sweeping past.  
Over 5000 people dead.  Trying to bury people at sea because there 
were too many and them washing back up.  Amazing stories.  And then 
how they elevated the island and every thing on it (yes, they put 
the houses on stilts and ran sidewalks while they hauled in sand 
from the gulf) about 10 feet and built the seawall so it would not 
happen again.  I was increadibly impressed and humbled by the people 
there.
> 
> moonmyyst
> 
> 
*****\(@@)/*****

You should read Isaac's Storm by Erik Larsen. A very good book about 
the storm and the aftermath and how the weather service (certainly 
unbelieveably primitive!) failed the populace...
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/isaacsstorm/

I was entranced by this book and could hardly put it down.

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****







From nrenka at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 11 02:15:52 2004
From: nrenka at yahoo.com (Nora Renka)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:15:52 -0000
Subject: From main site OT: Christmas at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <chqqtm+3b4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chtn4o+bkt2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

> That religion, politics, and sex are not discussed at parties is 
> surely merely a quirk of the late 20th and early 21st Century west, 
> and our descendants will doubtless laugh at us for being so 
> repressed.

Eh, sometimes it's a general rule for a damn good reason.  There was 
a departmental party at one professor's house where they made the 
mistake of letting *abortion* come up, with some very opinionated 
people, and the party ended up with people on opposite sides of the 
house and not talking.  Sure, the hostess could make jokes about that 
at the party the next year (having a singular inability to be 
tactful, which you just kinda have to know about and shrug off)--but 
no one repeated the mistake.

I've seen people get more exercised over sonata-deformational theory 
than they ever get over politics, though.

-Nora is procrastinating...with style!




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 11 03:17:38 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <chtenr+stcb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040911031739.6417.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com>



dudemom_2000 <dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> 
wrote:
> >lived on Galveston Island for about 10 years so understand 
> completely about watching for these monsters!!
> 
> Wow.  Did you meet anybody who knew anything about the terrible 
flood?
> 
> A.J.
> 
> 
> It is a really big deal there.  My son was even in a play about 
it.  The stories around it are really fascinating.  I am surprised a 
movie has not been made about it.  People hanging on to the statue 
on Broadway - about 4 stories up - and seeing things sweeping past.  
Over 5000 people dead.  Trying to bury people at sea because there 
were too many and them washing back up.  Amazing stories.  And then 
how they elevated the island and every thing on it (yes, they put 
the houses on stilts and ran sidewalks while they hauled in sand 
from the gulf) about 10 feet and built the seawall so it would not 
happen again.  I was increadibly impressed and humbled by the people 
there.
> 
> moonmyyst
> 
> 
*****\(@@)/*****

You should read Isaac's Storm by Erik Larsen. A very good book about 
the storm and the aftermath and how the weather service (certainly 
unbelieveably primitive!) failed the populace...
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/isaacsstorm/

I was entranced by this book and could hardly put it down.

Dudemom_2000



That's right.  I had forgotten about that book.  Thank you.  It is really wierd to walk around some of those places, to walk through the grave yards, and look at the pictures.  It gives you chills.  If you ever see a picture of what the island looks like now, the tallest building is an insurance company that I used to work for (they wrote the life insurance policy on Bonnie and Clyde and still have the origional policy on the wall there).  On the top floor is an observation deck that you can walk around.  They have pictures on the wall that correspond with what you are seeing out the window.  Most of the pictures are from right after the storm.  Some are before and some are from when the island was raised.  I used to love spending my lunches up there, especially with a storm blowing in.  (I guess I like scarry things!!)

moonmyyst


		
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 11 07:10:52 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:10:52 -0000
Subject: For Our Florida Friends
In-Reply-To: <20040910160418.48919.qmail@web53506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <chu8ds+nect@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> 
wrote:
> >lived on Galveston Island for about 10 years so understand 
> completely about watching for these monsters!!
> 
> Wow.  Did you meet anybody who knew anything about the terrible 
flood?
> 
> A.J.
> 
> 
> It is a really big deal there.  My son was even in a play about 
it.  The stories around it are really fascinating.  I am surprised a 
movie has not been made about it. 

I read some firsthand accounts and saw photographs-- to think that 
even if you were floating on debris, you had to duck flying timbers 
that could kill you anyway.

I'm surprised that no one has yet done a movie about the Molasses 
Flood here in Boston, either.

A.J.




From redina at silverbloom.net  Sat Sep 11 10:51:15 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:51:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Miami is not in Florida - hurricane humour
Message-ID: <4306.4.12.232.10.1094899875.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Jean shared some rather amusing tidbits...

From
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/weather/orl-frances-weblog,0,1416757.story?coll=orl-home-specialbreaking
[[
It's said there is no such thing as a dumb question. The folks answering
the Seminole County's citizen hotline might disagree. After a busy night
of fielding inquiries, they compiled their David Letterman-style Top 10
list:
# 10  Is the mall open?
# 9  What does mandatory mean?
# 8  Will the curfew let me go to the bar with my friends?
# 7  Do I leave the sand in the bags?
# 6  Due to the water, do you put holes in the sandbags?
# 5  Is Casselberry a county? I live in Seminole County, and it is
different there.
# 4  I heard there is a 9 p.m. curfew for all of Seminole County. Is it
different in Sanford?
# 3  Do the shelters have parking spaces?
# 2  I'm heading to Alabama and I am in Ocala. I am running out of gas.
Should I turn around and go home?
# 1  I heard the storm is going to Miami. Does that mean it will miss
Florida?
]]

LOL!


Another one came from a Reuters headline:
"Frances Delivers Long Pounding to Florida"

Thankfully, I wasn't the editor or I would've revised it to 'Long *Hard*
Pounding'. ;-)

Dina






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 11 15:35:41 2004
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:35:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Prophecies and saviours
In-Reply-To: <chtdin+kkvq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040911153541.97140.qmail@web41605.mail.yahoo.com>



alshainofthenorth <alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: 
 
Are there any fantasy geeks around who are up to a discussion about prophecy and destiny as fantasy plot devices?

It struck me when I was in another forum, reading a thread about Fantasy Clich?s We Can't Stand, that in the last fantasy wave (think Lucas, Eddings, Jordan, Rowling, Pullman and probably some more) it's been foretold that the Chosen One will be born to strike down the Bad Guy/bring balance to The Force/become the new Eve/whatever. The prophecy element has become such an over-used plot device that I'm going to scream if I see it written one more time. I prefer my heroes more like Frodo Baggins and Sam Gamgee -- people who haven't been selected by destiny, who could have chosen not to go but did it anyway.

I've been looking for the common root to this element, and even 
though I suspect that the deepest ones go back to the Messianic 
tradition of the Jewish and Christian religions, there may be newer roots in classical fantasy, but I can't seem to find them. Tolkien,if I remember correctly, used prophetic elements sparingly (Aragorn and the Paths of the Dead is a subplot), and I can't recall anything about King Arthur's birth being foretold by seers either.

When and why did this prophecy element become so important?

Kemper relpies:
I think prophecy also dates back to early Greek plays.  I see prophecy as a type of foreshadowing. 
Didn't Aragon know about his prophecy growing up?  Harry faces LV 5 times and is on the road to preparing others to fight the good battle before he knows and hears his (?) prophecy.  He is already in choice, like Frodo.  


		
---------------------------------
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Sat Sep 11 16:36:24 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloise_herisson)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:36:24 -0000
Subject: Question for fellow Brits re biscuits
Message-ID: <chv9i8+92j1@eGroups.com>

Has anyone else noticed the sudden disappearance of Cafe Noir 
biscuits from supermarket shelves? Does anyone know where they are 
still stocked? My local Sainsbury and Tesco stores no longer seem to 
sell them (just as all my kids have discovered them).

Many thanks,

~Eloise




From meidbh at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 11 21:06:03 2004
From: meidbh at yahoo.com (meidbh)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:06:03 -0000
Subject: Question for fellow Brits re biscuits
In-Reply-To: <chv9i8+92j1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <chvpbr+mnf9@eGroups.com>

<eloiseherisson at a...> wrote:
> Has anyone else noticed the sudden disappearance of Cafe Noir 
> biscuits from supermarket shelves? Does anyone know where they are 
> still stocked? My local Sainsbury and Tesco stores no longer seem 
to sell them (just as all my kids have discovered them).


Meidbh:
Eloise, you piqued my curiosity so I did what any selfrespecting 
21st century girl would do and Googled it.

And I found a site that may be the answer to many a biscuit lovers 
dreams 
www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com

I particularly enjoyed their Mission Statement, it goes like this:
"OUR MISSION STATEMENT: Well I think we should all sit down and have 
a nice cup of tea, and some biscuits, nice ones mind you. Oh and 
some cake would be nice as well. Lovely."

And they have a Missing in Action page...and the good news is a 
cursory search brought up no mention of Cafe Noir - yet...

I'll keep my eyes peeled. 

M :-)

 




From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Sun Sep 12 01:35:35 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (rynne_lupin)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:35:35 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Illyana Delorean!
Message-ID: <ci0957+uetr@eGroups.com>

*bursts into room, grinning* Hello, all!  Isn't a birthday such a 
good think to think of now?  Good thing we have one, then!

Today's honoree is illyana delorean, who can be owled birthday wishes 
at illyana at mindspring.com.  Do send something along!

Now let's break out the crepe paper! *starts digging in boxes for the 
streamers*  Anyone want to help me hang these up?  You'll get an 
extra big slice of cake...*grins*

And speaking of cake, it should be ready right about now!  Just wait 
a moment and I'll go get it.

*pops out, and pops back in a moment later with a large cake* Dig in!

Happy birthday, Illyana Delorean!

--Rynny the birthday elf




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 13:33:51 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:33:51 -0000
Subject: Question for fellow Brits re biscuits
In-Reply-To: <chvpbr+mnf9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci1j7v+8u5l@eGroups.com>

Meidbh wrote:

> Eloise, you piqued my curiosity so I did what any selfrespecting 
> 21st century girl would do and Googled it.
> 
> And I found a site that may be the answer to many a biscuit lovers 
> dreams 
> www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com
> 
> I particularly enjoyed their Mission Statement, it goes like this:
> "OUR MISSION STATEMENT: Well I think we should all sit down and 
have 
> a nice cup of tea, and some biscuits, nice ones mind you. Oh and 
> some cake would be nice as well. Lovely."

LMAO!

Eloise, I do hope you find your biscuits.  I fell in love with 
Chocolate Raspberry Swirl Ben & Jerry's one time and they yanked the 
flavor months later.  And then, just as I had discovered that 
Stonyfield Farms made a similar yogurt, they also stopped 
production, leaving me alone in a hollow world without chocolate-
raspberry frozen treats.  So I share your pain.

Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 13:38:03 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:38:03 -0000
Subject: Miami is not in Florida - hurricane humour
In-Reply-To: <4306.4.12.232.10.1094899875.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <ci1jfr+e0od@eGroups.com>

Dina wrote:

> Another one came from a Reuters headline:
> "Frances Delivers Long Pounding to Florida"

Florida is SUCH a whore.  First Charley, then Frances, now Ivan.  
Will you make up your minds?

*sigh*  Seriously, this is the worst hurricane season I remember.  
I'm thinking of you all & wishing you solid roofs and dry feet.

Amy Z




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 12 15:02:04 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 12 Sep 2004 15:02:04 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1095001324.22.97630.m8@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, September 12, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 

Hope to see you there! 

 





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 16:43:36 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:43:36 -0000
Subject: Question... Brits re biscuits - Death in a Bowl
In-Reply-To: <chvpbr+mnf9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci1ubo+iskq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "meidbh" <meidbh at y...> wrote:

> 
> 
> Meidbh:
> Eloise, you piqued my curiosity so I did what any selfrespecting 
> 21st century girl would do and Googled it.
> 
> And I found a site that may be the answer to many a biscuit lovers 
> dreams 
> www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> I'll keep my eyes peeled. 
> 
> M :-)

Bboyminn:

Thanks for the great link; a very fun site.

I especially like a 'Biscuit of the Week' reviews. As an American it's
difficult to get reliable information about British Biscuits. Always
wanted to try Jaffa Cake and Jammie Dodgers (Dan Radcliffe likes
Jammie Dodgers), although I suspect the these are 'kid foods' that are
just pure sugar in a variety of shapes and colors. Could anyone tell
me whether the (I'm told) extremely popular Jaffa Cake is actually
worth eating?

Another interesting feature on that website is the frequent travel
quest for Tea. One particular adventure was a trip to Cornwall for
'Cornish Tea' which I'm lead to believe is a very serious tea indeed.
It normally consists of Tea, of course, and scones with clotted cream
and strawberry jam. On this particular tea adventure the younger
members of the staff were impressed by the addition of clotted cream
to stawberry and chocolate ice cream. Good Lord! Can you spell FAT
overload. There were probably more calories in that ice cream than an
entire banquet. Do people really top their ice cream with clotted
cream? I'm sure it's good, but my arteries are clogging up just
thinking about it.

At any rate, along with the tea adventures, the Biscuit of the Week
reviews were very enjoyable. 

In addition... curious... has anyone ever tried any of the 'Duchy
Originals' products? These are organic baked and other goods produced
by Prince Charles; yes, THE Prince Charles. I'd like to try the Lemon
Curd Ice Cream as well as some of the jams and biscuits.

Just curious.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)





From boredbatty at comcast.net  Sun Sep 12 17:01:28 2004
From: boredbatty at comcast.net (Sunde)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:01:28 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
Message-ID: <ci1vd8+p82d@eGroups.com>

I'm sorry to bother the entire list with this, but I feel it's 
important. It has recently come to my attention that there is a bill 
in the house (Title HR163 /to view the bill go to: 
http://thomas.loc.gov/ and type in HR163) that requires mandatory 
military service for all people between the ages of 18-26. No matter 
the sex, health, or educational level of the persons between those 
ages. 

I beg everyone to please, read this bill, and then write to your 
local representative. This bill cannot be allowed to pass for more 
reasons than can be counted. 

Thank you for your time, and feel free to pass this on.

--Erin 





From spin01 at aol.com  Sun Sep 12 17:09:38 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:09:38 -0000
Subject: Time from paperback release....
Message-ID: <ci1vsi+pb1j@eGroups.com>

Does anyone remember the amount of time between Goblet of Fire being 
released in paperback and Order of Phoenix being released?  Our local 
Target has a huge display of Order of the Phoenix set up.  Was it 
just released in paperback or did I miss it first time around?  
Thanks.

sherry <<who had a chuckle this week when the local news radio made 
the special announcement that Harry Potter fans could go to the JKR 
website and thru a series of steps find a blurb from the new book.  
Amusing thing about this is that the door has been sealed shut again 
for at least 2 weeks lol>>




From maritajan at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 17:22:20 2004
From: maritajan at yahoo.com (Marita Jan)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Time from paperback release....
In-Reply-To: <ci1vsi+pb1j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040912172220.533.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>

I think OotP has been out in paperback for about a month now.  Maybe
longer, I'm not quite sure.

A little funny story.....I was in Waldonbooks a few weeks ago and they had
a big sign at the register to "Pre-order JKR's HALF-BLOOD PRINCE."  I got
all excited, thinking there was a release date now, but no....it was just
Waldonbooks, jumping the gun.  Bummer.  I asked how they could possibly
take pre-orders for a book that might take another year to come out, but
the clerk (not surprisingly) had no idea.  

I didn't pre-order, btw.  I figure I'll be one of those silly gits
standing in line at midnight, and giving my kids a good laugh for it.  

MJ


--- spinelli372003 <spin01 at aol.com> wrote:

> Does anyone remember the amount of time between Goblet of Fire being 
> released in paperback and Order of Phoenix being released?  Our local 
> Target has a huge display of Order of the Phoenix set up.  Was it 
> just released in paperback or did I miss it first time around?  
> Thanks.
> 
> sherry <<who had a chuckle this week when the local news radio made 
> the special announcement that Harry Potter fans could go to the JKR 
> website and thru a series of steps find a blurb from the new book.  
> Amusing thing about this is that the door has been sealed shut again 
> for at least 2 weeks lol>>
> 
> 


=====
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Need a real estate professional?  Visit my site at www.maritabush.com

With Marita, great service comes first.....and lasts!


		
_______________________________
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool



From sherriola at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 12 17:36:18 2004
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:36:18 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci1vd8+p82d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c498ef$0340ca80$0400a8c0@pensive>

Hello,

I looked this up on snopes.com.  they say it is probably not likely to
happen, but that there are bills in congress, that have been there since
January 2003, but they are not receiving much support.  I wouldn't worry
about it.  The part about health can't be true anyway.  I know too many
disabled people who would love to serve in the military but are not allowed
to do so.  If you read the information on the snopes.com site, it shows that
even the military doesn't support the idea of the draft being brought back.
Here'
s a link.



http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp

Sherry




-----Original Message-----
From: Sunde [mailto:boredbatty at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:01 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Off Topic (Important Legislation)


I'm sorry to bother the entire list with this, but I feel it's 
important. It has recently come to my attention that there is a bill 
in the house (Title HR163 /to view the bill go to: 
http://thomas.loc.gov/ and type in HR163) that requires mandatory 
military service for all people between the ages of 18-26. No matter 
the sex, health, or educational level of the persons between those 
ages. 

I beg everyone to please, read this bill, and then write to your 
local representative. This bill cannot be allowed to pass for more 
reasons than can be counted. 

Thank you for your time, and feel free to pass this on.

--Erin 





________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




From maritajan at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 17:44:36 2004
From: maritajan at yahoo.com (Marita Jan)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:44:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <000b01c498ef$0340ca80$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <20040912174436.3085.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>

I'll go with what may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think mandatory
military service is a bad idea.  I'd like to see men and women have to
serve 2 years at the age of 18, with deferments for health reasons but not
just for college.  Sorry, the military needs educated persons as well. 
There's a reason some people in this country feel like wars are fought on
the backs of the poor while wealthier kids skip off to the safety of
college, instead.  

I think the Israeli army as a great example of mandatory service that
works.  

MJ


--- Sherry Gomes <sherriola at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I looked this up on snopes.com.  they say it is probably not likely to
> happen, but that there are bills in congress, that have been there since
> January 2003, but they are not receiving much support.  I wouldn't worry
> about it.  The part about health can't be true anyway.  I know too many
> disabled people who would love to serve in the military but are not
> allowed
> to do so.  If you read the information on the snopes.com site, it shows
> that
> even the military doesn't support the idea of the draft being brought
> back.
> Here'
> s a link.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp
> 
> Sherry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sunde [mailto:boredbatty at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:01 AM
> To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Off Topic (Important Legislation)
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to bother the entire list with this, but I feel it's 
> important. It has recently come to my attention that there is a bill 
> in the house (Title HR163 /to view the bill go to: 
> http://thomas.loc.gov/ and type in HR163) that requires mandatory 
> military service for all people between the ages of 18-26. No matter 
> the sex, health, or educational level of the persons between those 
> ages. 
> 
> I beg everyone to please, read this bill, and then write to your 
> local representative. This bill cannot be allowed to pass for more 
> reasons than can be counted. 
> 
> Thank you for your time, and feel free to pass this on.
> 
> --Erin 
> 
> 



=====
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Need a real estate professional?  Visit my site at www.maritabush.com

With Marita, great service comes first.....and lasts!


		
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From lists at heidi8.com  Sun Sep 12 18:20:48 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:20:48 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <20040912174436.3085.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040912174436.3085.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1095013252.2CFB9630@r31.dngr.org>


On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 1:44pm, Marita Jan wrote:
> I'll go with what may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think 
> mandatory
military service is a bad idea.? I'd like to see men and women have to
serve 2 years at the age of 18, with deferments for health reasons but 
not
just for college.? Sorry, the military needs educated persons as well.
There's a reason some people in this country feel like wars are fought 
on
the backs of the poor while wealthier kids skip off to the safety of
college, instead.?
I think the Israeli army as a great example of mandatory service that
works.?


Well, Israel allows deferrments for college education. But besides that, 
the myriad of problems with the idea of a compulsory draft for all 18 
year olds are legion, some small, some larger:

1. Health insurers would have to add on two years in which they allow 
parents to insure their sons & daughters; now, that period generally 
ends at 23, but a compulsory service would push college starts to 20 or 
21, so it would only be fair to lengthen this period as well.

2. The education system in the us, on high school and college levels, 
would be impacted. Instead of looking to high school references and test 
scores by 16 and 17 year olds, they'd suddenly switch to 19 and 20, with 
the primary recommendation coming from one's commanding officer. And 
what about kids who graduate high school at 17, like I did? Would they 
be left to twiddle their thumbs for 4, 6 or 9 months until they're 18, 
and can start their army stint? Poor kids born in october or november - 
they'd either have to wait almost a year after finishing service to 
start college or colleges would have to change to allow more people to 
start in january. And school on trimester systems would be totally 
screwed up.

3. We don't have the same socialized social services structure as israel 
does; things like education and health care there are move 
state-involved than they are in the us. Would we move to a similar, more 
socialized structure in the us, or would teens and 20somethings be left 
without services?

4. We can't afford it. In Israel, the government structure, for over 55 
years, has been based around being able to fund the army. If we drafted 
every 18 year old, even the cost of food, hosuing and uniforms through 
basic training would bankrupt the US, especially because all those 
individuals would be pulled off the job market, and pretty much out of 
the taxpaying zone, for two years. And the minute we start back with the 
vietnam process of alowing some to not serve, we end up wiht the have- 
and have-nots situation again.

Just some thoughts on a complex situation.

Heidi



From katydid3500 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 19:36:27 2004
From: katydid3500 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Wolber)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci1vd8+p82d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040912193627.10776.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Sunde <boredbatty at comcast.net> wrote:

> I'm sorry to bother the entire list with this, but I
> feel it's 
> important. It has recently come to my attention that
> there is a bill 
> in the house (Title HR163 /to view the bill go to: 
> http://thomas.loc.gov/ and type in HR163) that
> requires mandatory 
> military service for all people between the ages of
> 18-26. No matter 
> the sex, health, or educational level of the persons
> between those 
> ages. 
> 
> I beg everyone to please, read this bill, and then
> write to your 
> local representative. This bill cannot be allowed to
> pass for more 
> reasons than can be counted. 
> 
> Thank you for your time, and feel free to pass this
> on.
> 
> --Erin 

I also agree that this isn't really something to worry
about. Many of the bills proposing reinstating the
draft were made by liberal members of Congress that
are against the war to remind their pro-war colleagues
how it feels to wonder if your child will be sent to
war. It's the mentality that it's easy to send
strangers to war but it's a harder decision when your
children could be called up. I will admit that if our
foreign involvement doesn't become more successful
there might not be any other choice, but none of the
proposed bills really lay out a working model so
there's nothing to worry about for now.

~Kathryn, who plans on moving to Canada before there's
any need for the draft 


		
_______________________________
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool



From spin01 at aol.com  Sun Sep 12 20:12:56 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:12:56 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <20040912193627.10776.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ci2ak8+vc7v@eGroups.com>

I have been reading the posts on this topic.  I can see the need for 
a mandatory draft as more and more young people are deciding that the 
army is not for them. I don't think an across the board draft is a 
good thing.  However I do see that it could be a good thing for those 
who are done with school and serving absolutly no good purpose except 
as a drain on their parents.  I thank god do not have a kid who has 
no goal.  However I have friends who have kids in there early to late 
20's doing nothing with there lives.  no jobs no input into society 
except to hang out at bars etc.  Why not put these young people to 
work.  And as far as the insurance thing goes the military offers 
insurance.  I no this as my son in law has been in the Illinois 
National Guard for the past 6 years.  Any member of the armed forces 
who is on active duty is covered by military insurance.  I have no 
answer for the problem with schools but I do know from my own 
personal experience that going to school a little later than 18 makes 
you appreciate it a little more. And if you yourself are responsible 
for getting there and paying your own way you do better.  It is easy 
to go to college at 18 with daddy footing the bill.  But going back 
at 25 or 30 and doing it yourself is a lot harder but a lot more 
rewarding.
sherry <<having said that let me say I have a 15yr old and a 16yr old 
boy that I don't want to give up to the army so it is a hard thing to 
face sigh.........>>
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Wolber 
<katydid3500 at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- Sunde <boredbatty at c...> wrote:
> 
> > I'm sorry to bother the entire list with this, but I
> > feel it's 
> > important. It has recently come to my attention that
> > there is a bill 
> > in the house (Title HR163 /to view the bill go to: 
> > http://thomas.loc.gov/ and type in HR163) that
> > requires mandatory 
> > military service for all people between the ages of
> > 18-26. No matter 
> > the sex, health, or educational level of the persons
> > between those 
> > ages. 
> > 
> > I beg everyone to please, read this bill, and then
> > write to your 
> > local representative. This bill cannot be allowed to
> > pass for more 
> > reasons than can be counted. 
> > 
> > Thank you for your time, and feel free to pass this
> > on.
> > 
> > --Erin 
> 
> I also agree that this isn't really something to worry
> about. Many of the bills proposing reinstating the
> draft were made by liberal members of Congress that
> are against the war to remind their pro-war colleagues
> how it feels to wonder if your child will be sent to
> war. It's the mentality that it's easy to send
> strangers to war but it's a harder decision when your
> children could be called up. I will admit that if our
> foreign involvement doesn't become more successful
> there might not be any other choice, but none of the
> proposed bills really lay out a working model so
> there's nothing to worry about for now.
> 
> ~Kathryn, who plans on moving to Canada before there's
> any need for the draft 
> 
> 
> 		
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool




From meidbh at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 20:34:36 2004
From: meidbh at yahoo.com (meidbh)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:34:36 -0000
Subject: Question... Brits re biscuits - Death in a Bowl
In-Reply-To: <ci1ubo+iskq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci2bss+rt6d@eGroups.com>

Steve wonders:
"Jaffa Cake and Jammie Dodgers (Dan Radcliffe likes Jammie Dodgers), 
although I suspect the these are 'kid foods' that are just pure 
sugar in a variety of shapes and colors. Could anyone tell me 
whether the (I'm told) extremely popular Jaffa Cake is actually 
worth eating?
...
"In addition... curious... has anyone ever tried any of the 'Duchy 
Originals' products?" 


Meidbh:
Jaffa cakes and toffee pops most definitely not just for kids. 
Though the jaffa cake is a little bit more grown up with it's layer 
of dark chocolate and slick packaging than the sweeter gooier 
gaudily packaged toffee pop. Both highly recommended.

Haven't tried the lemon curd ice cream but it sounds divine. The 
Duchy Original products are pretty good but to really appreciate the 
enormous range of deliciously high sugar high fat delights Britain 
has to offer you will really need to visit. An activity holiday of 
some kind (hiking/cycling/climbing etc) could be a good idea as an 
arterial damage limitation exercise ;-)

M 





From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 21:06:22 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:06:22 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <1095013252.2CFB9630@r31.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <ci2doe+p0v8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <lists at h...> 
wrote:

> 
> Just some thoughts on a complex situation.
> 
> Heidi

Wow.  Just reading your reasons demontrates to me how different the 
perceptions of this generation are from those of the last conscript 
era.  This current draft legislation ids the brainchild of Charlie 
Rangell (D- NY) who reasons that all the current votes to go to war 
would come out differently if the children of "normal" people would 
be at risk.  He was not advocating the return of the draft on its 
merits.  As for me, an old conscript, I think the nation would 
benefit from having a significant percentage of people in the armed 
forces who are not "lifers' and don't want to be there.

Heidi is right in that the military doesn't want to spend their money 
on conscripts, who aren't anywhere near as effective as professional 
troops-- but that is a completely different question.

Haggridd
Viet Nam 1971-1972




From lists at heidi8.com  Sun Sep 12 21:12:11 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:12:11 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci2doe+p0v8@eGroups.com>
References: <ci2doe+p0v8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1095023535.BB53B33@j28.dngr.org>


First, I wrote:
>
>  Just some thoughts on a complex situation.
>
>

Haggridd replied:
> Wow.? Just reading your reasons demontrates to me how different the
perceptions of this generation are from those of the last conscript
era.?

Well, part of the reason might be that in the vietnam era, there hadn't 
been a break in the draft-concept since at least 1941 - it might've been 
since WWI, but I don't actually know. Further, a larger percentage of 
the population, pre, say, 1975, didn't attend any college, compared to 
the percentages now, which also makes an impact. Pulling people away 
from starting a manufacturing, service or construction job for two or 
three years has a different (not less, not more, but different) impact 
on society than does obligating a certain percentage of the population 
to delay the start of college.

Further, the consistency issue has a major impact on any transition to a 
conscription situation; we're just not set up for it anymore. When 
people were conscripted into service in vietnam, the military was used 
to conscripting. A transition to it now would be monumental.

Heidi



From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 12 23:13:27 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:13:27 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <1095013252.2CFB9630@r31.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <ci2l6n+snk0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <lists at h...> wrote:
> ... the myriad of problems with the idea of a compulsory draft ...
are legion, some small, some larger:
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> 2. The education system in the us, on high school and college 
> levels, would be impacted. 
> 


bboyminn:

Let's give some thought to the impact on colleges and universities. In
the first year that the 'draft' is implimented, there will be a 25%
loss in all NEW college and university populations. The next year, we
will have two missing years of enrollment yeilding a 50% loss in new
college and Uni enrollment. For the remaining two years of the
standard four year college student career, we will again have a 25%
gap missing.

That only relates to new students coming into the university system.
Most, if not all, students in colleges and universities are within the
'Draft' eligible age range which in reality means that ALL colleges
and universities would be empty for several years before students
started flowing back into the systems. 

I don't think many colleges or universities could stand a financial
set back like that. I can only see many of them having to go out of
business, or at least shut down for two or three years until
enrollment increased again. That's a huge financial impact. Remember
there are thousands of secondary businesses that count on the college
enrollment; housing, fast food, coffe shops, cafes, grocers, petrol
stations, beer and liquor sales, clothes, sporting goods, etc....


> Hide continues:
> 
> 4. We can't afford it. ...edited.. If we drafted every 18 year old, 
> even the cost of food, housing and uniforms through basic training 
> would bankrupt the US, especially because all those individuals 
> would be pulled off the job market, and pretty much out of 
> the taxpaying zone, for two years. 
> 
> Heidi


bboyminn:

Well, on that front, it might give parents two years to save money for
their kids college fund. But, you are right, the cost would be
astronomical, especially when you consider all the secondary financial
loses, similar to those I pointed out regarding the desolate college
communities. 

And exactly what are all those new soldiers going to do? I can tell
you that I spend a substantial amount of my army career doing
absolutely nothing, and another substantial block of time was spent
pretending to do something (the army is very good at this). 

An additional note, the Military is notorious for paying next to
nothing to soldiers when a conscription is in force. Neither military
or civilian business has much incentive to pay high wages to slave
labor. A basic low rank soldier now might make $500 to %700 per month,
with conscription, that will drop to about $150 to $250 per month.
When I was in the army, we made about $120/month, and they always
found a few miscellaneous fees to deduct. That was third from the
bottom pay grade.

Noble as it may sound, it's completely unworkable. 

I also concur with other people who pointed out that war suddenly
loses substantial popularity when there is a chance the the son and
daughters of rich people have to go fight it.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)





From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Mon Sep 13 03:55:12 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (Rynne)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:55:12 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, John!
Message-ID: <ci35n0+pufd@eGroups.com>

Well, isn't today a lovely day (even if it's almost over :p)?  And an 
especially great day for a...(wait for it) birthday!  Don't you just 
love all the celebrations? :D

Today's birthday honoree is John Walton, who can be owled birthday 
wishes at john at queerasjohn.com.  Go and tell him happy birthday, all 
right?

Now, where did I put those decorations yesterday...ah, here they are! 
*drags out box of decorations* Now let's just put these streamers up, 
put on a little music, and we're all set.

And of course, we can't forget one of the most important parts of any 
birthday--the cake! *pops out, and pops back in with a large cake* 
Enjoy, everyone!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JOHN!

--Rynny the birthday elf  




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 13 09:45:51 2004
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:45:51 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <1095013252.2CFB9630@r31.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <ci3q8f+8cnl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <lists at h...> 
wrote:
>.??
> Well, Israel allows deferrments for college education. 

Not exactly. Generally, there is no deferrement. There is a special 
program (several, actually) where you go to university before your 
military service, and the army pays for it. However, you have to sign 
on to serve for a much longer time afterwards. 


> 2. The education system in the us, on high school and college 
levels, would be impacted. Instead of looking to high school 
references and test scores by 16 and 17 year olds, they'd suddenly 
switch to 19 and 20, with the primary recommendation coming from 
>one's commanding officer.

That is not the case in Israel. You are accepted to university based 
on your high school matriculation test scores and, most importantly, 
psychometric test results (similar, I think, to American SATs). Army 
evaluations have absolutely *no* influence on admittance.

> 
> 3. We don't have the same socialized social services structure as 
>israel does; things like education and health care there are move 
> state-involved than they are in the us. Would we move to a similar, 
>more socialized structure in the us, or would teens and 20somethings 
>be left without services?

I'm not sure it's true of Israel anymore. Within the last 30 years, 
Israel has gone from begin the most egalitarian western country, to 
being only second to the US in social inequality.

> 
> 4. We can't afford it. In Israel, the government structure, for 
>over 55 years, has been based around being able to fund the army. 

That's true. Sad, but true. A huge problem when you try to 
demilitarise a country - like all organizations, the army tends to 
swallow more and more resources, regardless of realistic needs. 
Although I think that most of the resources go towards technology, 
rather than payrols. 



Naama, Israeli




From julie_balfour at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 13 15:48:37 2004
From: julie_balfour at hotmail.com (Boolean)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:48:37 -0000
Subject: Question... Brits re biscuits - Death in a Bowl
In-Reply-To: <ci2bss+rt6d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci4fgl+dgdq@eGroups.com>

> Steve wonders:
> "Jaffa Cake and Jammie Dodgers (Dan Radcliffe likes Jammie 
Dodgers), 
> although I suspect the these are 'kid foods' that are just pure 
> sugar in a variety of shapes and colors. Could anyone tell me 
> whether the (I'm told) extremely popular Jaffa Cake is actually 
> worth eating?
> ...
> "In addition... curious... has anyone ever tried any of the 'Duchy 
> Originals' products?" 
> 
> 
> Meidbh:
> Jaffa cakes and toffee pops most definitely not just for kids. 
> Though the jaffa cake is a little bit more grown up with it's layer 
> of dark chocolate and slick packaging than the sweeter gooier 
> gaudily packaged toffee pop. Both highly recommended.
> 
> Haven't tried the lemon curd ice cream but it sounds divine. The 
> Duchy Original products are pretty good but to really appreciate 
the 
> enormous range of deliciously high sugar high fat delights Britain 
> has to offer you will really need to visit. An activity holiday of 
> some kind (hiking/cycling/climbing etc) could be a good idea as an 
> arterial damage limitation exercise ;-)

Julie:
I will tread carefully on the Jaffa cake discussion - they are a 
national institution and will be vehemently defended if in any way 
slagged off. Until you've marvelled at the extreme tangy-ness of the 
orange bit in the middle, and pondered why the sponge biscuit always 
tastes slightly off you cannot appreciate just how truly strange it 
is that we love the Jaffa cake so much. It is truly wonderful, but 
slightly rubbish at the same time. YUM.

As for the Duchy ice cream - steer clear of vanilla! It is watery and 
foul. It's like a low fat texture with all the fat content still 
there - pointless and distressing! Stick to a B&J's or Haagen-Dazs, 
or a good quality own-brand.




From carmenharms at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 13 16:39:20 2004
From: carmenharms at yahoo.com (snazzzybird)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:39:20 -0000
Subject: Army in Israel and US, was Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <20040912174436.3085.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ci4ifo+umaa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Marita Jan <maritajan at y...> 
wrote:
> I'll go with what may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think 
mandatory
> military service is a bad idea.  I'd like to see men and women have 
to
> serve 2 years at the age of 18, with deferments for health reasons 
but not
> just for college.  Sorry, the military needs educated persons as 
well. 
> There's a reason some people in this country feel like wars are 
fought on
> the backs of the poor while wealthier kids skip off to the safety of
> college, instead.  
> 
> I think the Israeli army as a great example of mandatory service 
that
> works.  
> 
> MJ
> 
> 
snazzzybird sez --

Yes, mandatory service in the Israeli army works, and it does provide 
many benefits to society beyond a strong military.  It gives all 
citizens a common frame of reference: for the most part, everyone has 
served, or is serving; everyone's parents served; everyone's children 
will serve.  It's a unifying factor.  And I totally agree that having 
educated persons in the military is beneficial all around.

However, there's one important difference between Israel and the 
United States.  Israel is such an embattled country, it literally 
would not survive without a strong and prepared army.  Everyone in 
the country knows this, and civilian support for the army is strong.  
My son moved to Israel three years ago, and he's currently serving in 
the Israeli Army.  He says when he's in uniform, perfect strangers 
will come up to him and thank him for what he's doing.  

The US's survival has not been at stake since World War II.  When it 
was at stake, our citizens supported the military as wholeheartedly 
and fervently as Israelis do today.  Everybody wanted to enlist, even 
those who were too old or had disqualifying physical conditions.  I 
don't think this is just because they were "the greatest generation"; 
I believe the same thing would happen today if those circumstances 
arose again.  

If the US had a policy of universal military service today, we'd have 
a whole lot of people "all dressed up with no place to go".  I fear 
that someone would then *find* them a place to go; that this would 
result in even more US military action for the wrong reasons -- such 
as for oil, or for trade interests, or so some politico won't 
appear "soft on Communism".  

Just my two cents.

--snazzzybird




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 13 17:01:40 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:01:40 -0000
Subject: Dodging and drafting
Message-ID: <ci4jpk+7rr1@eGroups.com>

So, let me get this straight.

The *liberals* favour the draft because they want to hold the 
conservatives' toes to the fire and, good little liberals that they 
are, are quite happy to sacrifice their own sons and daughters to 
that aim.

The *conservatives* favour the draft because, well, they're 
conservatives, you know... keep the lower orders out of mischief... 
make 'em learn respect... camaraderie... happiest days of my life... 
good horsewhipping never hurt anyone...  enjoy it myself at Madam 
Payne's... where was I?

Oh, yes.  So the only people against the draft are those who care 
about boring common-sense stuff like US military effectiveness, the 
viability of the US economy, and young people getting killed.

I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds to me as if the return of the 
draft is a foregone conclusion.

:D




From mdemeran at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 13 17:10:10 2004
From: mdemeran at hotmail.com (Meg Demeranville)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:10:10 -0000
Subject: Miami is not in Florida - hurricane humour
In-Reply-To: <4306.4.12.232.10.1094899875.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <ci4k9i+9nph@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dina Lerret" <redina at s...>  
> Another one came from a Reuters headline:
> "Frances Delivers Long Pounding to Florida"
> 
> Thankfully, I wasn't the editor or I would've revised it to 'Long 
*Hard*
> Pounding'. ;-)
> 
> Dina

I'm just glad I'm not the only one with my mind in the gutter when 
it comes to Hurricane sex.

-Meg

P.S. Yes, I'm still around, I've just fallen off the planet a bit.




From olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr  Mon Sep 13 20:43:06 2004
From: olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr (olivierfouquet2000)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:43:06 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <1095013252.2CFB9630@r31.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <ci50oq+1e62@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <lists at h...> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 1:44pm, Marita Jan wrote:
> > I'll go with what may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think 
> > mandatory
> military service is a bad idea.?? I'd like to see men and women have to
> serve 2 years at the age of 18, with deferments for health reasons but 
> not
> just for college.?? Sorry, the military needs educated persons as well.
> There's a reason some people in this country feel like wars are fought 
> on
> the backs of the poor while wealthier kids skip off to the safety of
> college, instead.??
> I think the Israeli army as a great example of mandatory service that
> works.??
> 
> 
> Well, Israel allows deferrments for college education. But besides that, =

> the myriad of problems with the idea of a compulsory draft for all 18 
> year olds are legion, some small, some larger:
> 
> 1. Health insurers would have to add on two years in which they allow 
> parents to insure their sons & daughters; now, that period generally 
> ends at 23, but a compulsory service would push college starts to 20 or 
> 21, so it would only be fair to lengthen this period as well.
> 
> 2. The education system in the us, on high school and college levels, 
> would be impacted. Instead of looking to high school references and test =

> scores by 16 and 17 year olds, they'd suddenly switch to 19 and 20, with =

> the primary recommendation coming from one's commanding officer. And 
> what about kids who graduate high school at 17, like I did? Would they 
> be left to twiddle their thumbs for 4, 6 or 9 months until they're 18, 
> and can start their army stint? Poor kids born in october or november - 
> they'd either have to wait almost a year after finishing service to 
> start college or colleges would have to change to allow more people to 
> start in january. And school on trimester systems would be totally 
> screwed up.
> 
> 3. We don't have the same socialized social services structure as israel =

> does; things like education and health care there are move 
> state-involved than they are in the us. Would we move to a similar, more =

> socialized structure in the us, or would teens and 20somethings be left 
> without services?
> 
> 4. We can't afford it. In Israel, the government structure, for over 55 
> years, has been based around being able to fund the army. If we drafted 
> every 18 year old, even the cost of food, hosuing and uniforms through 
> basic training would bankrupt the US, especially because all those 
> individuals would be pulled off the job market, and pretty much out of 
> the taxpaying zone, for two years. And the minute we start back with the =

> vietnam process of alowing some to not serve, we end up wiht the have- 
> and have-nots situation again.
> 
> Just some thoughts on a complex situation.
> 
> Heidi

Olivier:
I don't boast on being a military expert, quite the contrary actually, thou=
gh I have served 
for both the french and the US Army, but I for once think it is perfectly f=
easible to restore 
the draft in the US. Amongst the reasons stated by Heidi, I have the impres=
sion none really 
prevents conscription.

1) That sounds like a detail to me, but maybe I am not getting the larger p=
icture.

2) That's how it works or worked until very recently in Germany, and I see =
no particular 
problem with education or the economy there.

3) In fact, I am not even sure I understand that one. Usually, the Army pro=
vides health care 
for its employees. I guess that's the most sensible solution.

4) The question of affordability does not seem a serious problem at all, re=
ally. If Germany 
(or France until very recently) can afford to cloth and feed its conscript,=
 why couldn't the 
US? Besides, the cost of paying, clothing, housing and feeding conscript do=
es not strike 
me as particularly high in comparison to-say-the purchase of almost 300 F-2=
2 Raptor by 
the USAF. Let us introduce number quickly: I suppose there are approxiamtel=
y 2 million 
people aged 18 in the USA (based on US demographics). Suppose one soldier c=
osts 2000 
dollars a month. That's an excess of 24 billion dollars a year. Not immense=
 in comparison 
with the 400 billion dollars budget of the USA.

However, I am not saying I am in favor of this idea. On the contrary, as Ha=
ggrid pointed 
out, en masse warfare has no more military value nowadays. Besides, I am no=
t sure the 
social impact of this on the american society would be so positive. I would=
 be curious to 
know what young american would think about that.

Olivier




From meidbh at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 13 20:52:42 2004
From: meidbh at yahoo.com (meidbh)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:52:42 -0000
Subject: Question... Brits re biscuits - Death in a Bowl
In-Reply-To: <ci4fgl+dgdq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci51aq+nr0v@eGroups.com>

Julie:
"As for the Duchy ice cream - steer clear of vanilla! It is watery 
and foul. It's like a low fat texture with all the fat content still 
there - pointless and distressing! Stick to a B&J's or Haagen-Dazs, 
or a good quality own-brand."

Meidbh:
Thanks for the warning!

Feel kind of guilty sending out a oneliner...even though I know it's 
allowed on OT...filler filler filler. That's ok so three lines now!

M :-)




From sydenmill at msn.com  Mon Sep 13 21:51:37 2004
From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:51:37 -0000
Subject: Miami is not in Florida - hurricane humour
In-Reply-To: <ci4k9i+9nph@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci54p9+9f1g@eGroups.com>

--- 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dina Lerret" redina at s.... 
wrote:
  
>Another one came from a Reuters headline:
"Frances Delivers Long Pounding to Florida"
Thankfully, I wasn't the editor or I would've revised it to 'Long 
*Hard*Pounding'. ;-)
> Dina

 
>In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Meg Demeranville" mdemeran at h... 
wrote: I'm just glad I'm not the only one with my mind in the gutter 
when it comes to Hurricane sex.
> -Meg



Bohcoo adds:
Yep, when it comes to hurricanes, if you live in Florida, you're 
screwed. 

Couldn't resist, guys,
:)
B


 





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 13 23:14:00 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:14:00 -0000
Subject: From main site OT: Christmas at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <chtcd9+p0cj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci59jo+u2af@eGroups.com>

David:
> "That religion, politics, and sex are not discussed at parties is 
> surely merely a quirk of the late 20th and early 21st Century 
west, 
> and our descendants will doubtless laugh at us for being so 
> repressed."

> Meidbh:
> Oh dear, I most definitely did not mean to come out in support of 
> repression or supression of opinions *shiver shiver*. What I was 
> trying to get across was that it's not so much an issue of subject 
> matter but of context of expression. There are some environments 
> where it makes sense to avoid issues that can provoke strongly 
> polarised opinions. Argument as intellectual debate can be great 
fun 
> when you know the players, but when you don't (ie the party 
context) 
> there is always a risk that your debate can cause offence, anger, 
> upset, alienate people and generally be counterproductive. 

Sure, and I don't think you sounded as if you did.  Although I was a 
little tongue-in-cheek with my comment above, there are aspects of 
the way we behave in the face of controversial subjects that puzzle 
me.  Chief among these is the phenomenon whereby, when someone 
expresses their view on a controversial matter, people of the 
opposing view act as if they feel that they are being coerced into 
changing their minds, or are being marginalised or even put down in 
some way, or there rights are being infringed in some other way.  
(How often have you read the phrase "I have the right to say xyz" 
or "we have freedom of speech" in the middle of a debate where 
nobody had remotely suggested otherwise?)

I'd be interested to hear others' observations on this subject.

> So how does this tie into HP and religious themes? Well one of the 
> many reasons the HP books have had such mass appeal is that  
> references to the RW are kept general enough that a reader from 
> almost any background can "fill in the blanks" and make the book 
> their own. Readers in Beijing or Mumbai or London could all 
imagine 
> themselves at Hogwarts casting spells at Harry's side. It truly is 
> an incredible thing to tell a story so well that people all over 
the 
> world listen and are enthralled. IMVVHO an overt association with 
> any specific religious or political belief system would break this 
> spell. 

Yes - agreed, and so I agree (which was the original discussion) 
that one can't make much of the fact that Hogwarts celebrates 
Christmas and has an Easter holiday.  However that has IMO little 
bearing on the wider issues of Christian influence on JKR or 
deliberate introduction of Christian themes by her.

David




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 14 00:20:40 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:20:40 -0000
Subject: Question... Brits re biscuits - Death in a Bowl
In-Reply-To: <ci1ubo+iskq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci5dgo+56at@eGroups.com>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/24280

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
wrote:
<<Snip> > 
> > 
> 
> Bboyminn:
> 
> Thanks for the great link; a very fun site.
> 
> I especially like a 'Biscuit of the Week' reviews. As an American 
it's difficult to get reliable information about British Biscuits. 
Always wanted to try Jaffa Cake and Jammie Dodgers (Dan Radcliffe 
likes Jammie Dodgers), although I suspect the these are 'kid foods' 
that are just pure sugar in a variety of shapes and colors. Could 
anyone tell me whether the (I'm told) extremely popular Jaffa Cake 
is actually worth eating?
> 
<Snip> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)

*****\(@@)/*****

Ok, this prompted me to start searching. Here is a great site with a 
Jammie Dodgers recipe (also a a great site for Eddie Izzard):

http://www.auntiemomo.com/cakeordeath/biscuits.html

Jaffa cakes (not a recipe but a cute site) try:

http://homepages.force9.net/swamp/jaffanet/

or

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_612247.html?menu=news.quirkies

finally a recipe for Jaffa Cake:

http://www.cookingcache.com/chocolateorangecakejaffacake.shtml

Thats all for now....

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****







From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 14 01:59:42 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:59:42 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci50oq+1e62@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci5jae+tni0@eGroups.com>

One thing someone should point out is that today the Selective 
Service is much more selective than when they just needed bodies to 
send over there.  Getting accepted into the military is harder 
nowadays and requires passing various physical and mental tests and 
assessments.   Training includes some fields more sophisticated than 
when we last had a draft, as well. This new standard is a 
complication in figuring out how there could be a draft again.

--A.J.




From spin01 at aol.com  Tue Sep 14 13:05:04 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:05:04 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci5jae+tni0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci6qa0+jhlv@eGroups.com>

I agree with A.J.'s point.  Having to sign up for the draft is a lot 
like being picked to be called for jury duty.  they will call in 
about a hundred people to take 12 so its not like they are going to 
take all of the people who are signed up.  But I still hold firm to 
my belief that if a kid is 18 and has not clue where or what he wants 
to do giving up a couple years of his life to serve the country that 
he lives in is not a bad thing.
sherry
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> One thing someone should point out is that today the Selective 
> Service is much more selective than when they just needed bodies to 
> send over there.  Getting accepted into the military is harder 
> nowadays and requires passing various physical and mental tests and 
> assessments.   Training includes some fields more sophisticated 
than 
> when we last had a draft, as well. This new standard is a 
> complication in figuring out how there could be a draft again.
> 
> --A.J.




From caseylane at wideopenwest.com  Tue Sep 14 17:24:11 2004
From: caseylane at wideopenwest.com (Casey)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:24:11 -0000
Subject: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci6qa0+jhlv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci79fr+i95i@eGroups.com>

Well, I have mixed thoughts on this. I am a veteran of the U.S. 
Army. I served during the Viet Nam War, although I was never sent. 
(I'm a female that wasn't in the medical field).

Yes the Military will pay for your health insurance while you are 
in. What the poster meant was that, currently, parents can carry 
their children on their insurance for 4 years, while they are in 
college. (No college, no insurance after 19). That time will have to 
be expanded since college will be delayed.

Also, we currently do not allow gays in the service. Although I am 
in favor of changing that legislation, I don't see it happening if 
they can pull from a pool of women that they were not allowed to 
touch before. 

Add to that, most kids I know aren't a drain on their parents, 
sitting home all day. Most, if they aren't in school, are working 
full time. 

I loved the Army and thought that, for many, it had a lot to offer. 
If you aren't that kind of person though it can be horrible.  I saw 
otherwise great people get so frustrated by the organization that 
they ended up angry, bitter and often using drugs to excess because 
they were so unhappy. Not everyone flourishes in a structured living 
condition, some become absolutely claustrophobic.  Messing up 
though, because you aren't made that way, can have life long 
repercussions, including losing the right to vote.

Casey





From saitaina at frontiernet.net  Tue Sep 14 18:12:04 2004
From: saitaina at frontiernet.net (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:12:04 -0700
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
References: <ci79fr+i95i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <041701c49a86$58479d40$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>

Since many of us are avid readers and all of us
have read at least one book in our lives, I
thought I'd toss this question out:

If you were to read a book that combined past and
present (ie: Two characters current lives and
their pasts), how would you like to see it done?
Note: Both are important to the story so I can't
cut either out.

Alternating chapters between current time (now)
and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
actual dates)

Flashbacks to only the major issues.

The characters telling others of their own pasts
without actually seeing it (which leads to very
long monologues...)

Any other ideas?

Saitaina
****
"I do wonder why the artist gave Riddle pointy
ears in this doujinshi. I keep waiting for Elrond
to drop by."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on all this
and plow face-first into a tree because I was
looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll still be
having a better day than I am today."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From spin01 at aol.com  Tue Sep 14 19:04:38 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:04:38 -0000
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
In-Reply-To: <041701c49a86$58479d40$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <ci7fc6+solg@eGroups.com>

I personally like the flashback option.  I read a lot of different 
kinds of books.  Some of my favorites are the paranormal and also 
historical romance.  Time travels are great also.  
sherry
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Saitaina" <saitaina at f...> 
wrote:
> Since many of us are avid readers and all of us
> have read at least one book in our lives, I
> thought I'd toss this question out:
> 
> If you were to read a book that combined past and
> present (ie: Two characters current lives and
> their pasts), how would you like to see it done?
> Note: Both are important to the story so I can't
> cut either out.
> 
> Alternating chapters between current time (now)
> and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
> 2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
> actual dates)
> 
> Flashbacks to only the major issues.
> 
> The characters telling others of their own pasts
> without actually seeing it (which leads to very
> long monologues...)
> 
> Any other ideas?
> 
> Saitaina
> ****
> "I do wonder why the artist gave Riddle pointy
> ears in this doujinshi. I keep waiting for Elrond
> to drop by."
> 
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina
> 
> "No, one day I'm going to look back on all this
> and plow face-first into a tree because I was
> looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll still be
> having a better day than I am today."
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 14 19:35:17 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:35:17 -0000
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
In-Reply-To: <041701c49a86$58479d40$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <ci7h5l+138p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Saitaina" <saitaina at f...> 
wrote:

> and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
> 2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
> actual dates)

That sounds good!  You could get me now (NY) and my great-great-great-
great-great-great-grandparents in the flashback... >:D

--A.J.




From kelleythompson at gbronline.com  Tue Sep 14 21:01:33 2004
From: kelleythompson at gbronline.com (Kelley)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:01:33 -0000
Subject: ADMIN:  Help Wanted
Message-ID: <ci7m7d+fgll@eGroups.com>



IT technical help wanted for interesting HPfGU project. 

Basic skills required: PHP, Python or Java. Need to be able to 
create SQL queries and handle text processing. 

Project will probably take 6 months, possibly longer.  Alas, for 
legal reasons, we can only work with US-based developers, and 
involvement is on strictly voluntary basis. However, unlimited 
butterbeer and chocolate frogs to the chosen few. If you are 
interested in helping, please contact us at: 
developerapp@ hpfgu.org.uk

Thanks, everyone!

--Kelley, on behalf of the elves




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Tue Sep 14 22:40:33 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:40:33 EDT
Subject: DaveWitley - be very very careful
Message-ID: <159.3f5e7985.2e78cd61@aol.com>

> "So, let me get this straight.
The *liberals* favour the draft because they want to hold the conservatives' 
toes to the fire and, good little liberals that they are, are quite happy to 
sacrifice their own sons and daughters to that aim. " <

Careful making generalizations Dave ... THIS liberal does not favor the draft 
whatsoever.   I will NOT sacrifice my son.

Let's get back to discussing Harry Potter.

"Luna"

-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Tue Sep 14 22:48:02 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:48:02 EDT
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, teas, etc.
Message-ID: <55.6187ecf0.2e78cf22@aol.com>

Someone posted a link the other day for a site where you could shop for 
English teas, jammie dodgers, etc.  I wrote it down and lost the slip of paper I 
put it on somewhere on this over-piled desk!  

If you'd send the link again, I'd be ever grateful.  

Thanks.

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Sep 14 23:05:47 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:05:47 -0000
Subject: DaveWitley - be very very careful
In-Reply-To: <159.3f5e7985.2e78cd61@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ci7tgb+cdva@eGroups.com>

Luna wrote:

> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving 
safely in 
> a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, 
thoroughly 
> used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a 
Ride!" 

Precisely.

David




From boredbatty at comcast.net  Wed Sep 15 00:14:05 2004
From: boredbatty at comcast.net (boredbatty at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:14:05 -0400
Subject: To Serve or not to Serve? was RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Off Topic (Important Legislation)
In-Reply-To: <ci6qa0+jhlv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.65.1576049070.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

 ~snipped from sherry~But I still hold firm to 
my belief that if a kid is 18 and has not clue where or what he wants 
to do giving up a couple years of his life to serve the country that 
he lives in is not a bad thing.
 
I was the original poster of this thread. 
 
When I was 18, I had a full time job and went to school part time while
supporting my two younger brothers,and caring for my grandmother who had
terminal cancer. 
 
I am currently 22, have my own home, and work in childcare full time while
doing free lance graphic design. What I'm trying to say here is this--Just
because someone is around 18 does not mean they don't know what they want to
do, or that it would be right to take away their chosen life style. There
are people who want to serve, yes, I full heartedly agree. Let them be the
ones to do it.  If I were called today to serve, I would be put in a very
very tough position. 
 
Do I love my country? Of course. Do I support our troops? Yes. But, right
now, I'd rather fight for something real--Like my freedom to stay out of the
military, and know that the 4 year olds I teach will grow up to have that
choice as well. 
 
To Serve or not to serve? That is the question. Our ability to choose if we
want to or not is a freedom--and one that should not be taken away lightly.

 
--erin
 
Bless you and yours
As well as the cottage you live in.
May the roof overhead be well thatched
And those inside be well matched.
 

  _____  

From: spinelli372003 [mailto:spin01 at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:05 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Off Topic (Important Legislation)


I agree with A.J.'s point.  Having to sign up for the draft is a lot 
like being picked to be called for jury duty.  they will call in 
about a hundred people to take 12 so its not like they are going to 
take all of the people who are signed up.  But I still hold firm to 
my belief that if a kid is 18 and has not clue where or what he wants 
to do giving up a couple years of his life to serve the country that 
he lives in is not a bad thing.
sherry

  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 01:24:56 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:24:56 -0000
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
In-Reply-To: <041701c49a86$58479d40$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <ci85l8+ikhm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Saitaina" <saitaina at f...> wrote:

> Alternating chapters between current time (now)
> and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
> 2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
> actual dates)

Katherine Neville's _The Eight_ was written like this, and I liked
that style very much.  It worked for that book especially, because
each timeline was as important as the other.  I suggest this way if
you have more than just a little to tell about the past.

Annemehr





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 01:59:09 2004
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:59:09 -0000
Subject: Help, please.
Message-ID: <ci87ld+v6lt@eGroups.com>

Hi, guys! I know that the question I am about to ask will be rather 
difficult and if nobody can answer, I understand. :)


But I am pretty sure that the book, I am trying to remember was 
mentioned here, that is why I am trying. 

At the end of the story, two protagonists merge in one, by that act 
the soul of the evil one is saved.

Can anybody identify this book for me?


Thanks a lot and sorry that I cannot offer any more clues.


Alla






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Sep 15 08:55:20 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:55:20 -0000
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
In-Reply-To: <ci85l8+ikhm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci901o+i104@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Saitaina" <saitaina at f...> 
wrote:
> 
> > Alternating chapters between current time (now)
> > and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
> > 2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
> > actual dates)
> 
> Katherine Neville's _The Eight_ was written like this, and I liked
> that style very much.  It worked for that book especially, because
> each timeline was as important as the other.  I suggest this way if
> you have more than just a little to tell about the past.
> 
> Annemehr

Peg Kerr's book 'The Wild Swans' did the same thing. Personally, it 
didn't work for me, but mainly because I thought there wasn't much 
connection between the two stories (contemporary and medieval)that 
she was telling. There was just a tiny link up in the final chapter.

One book where the technique worked brilliantly IMO was 'Possession' 
by A S Byatt, unravelling a historical mystery but also a parallel 
bittersweet contemporary romance between the literary researchers.

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed Sep 15 11:21:41 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (arrowsmithbt)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:21:41 -0000
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
In-Reply-To: <041701c49a86$58479d40$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <ci98k5+6cck@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Saitaina" <saitaina at f...> wrote:
> Since many of us are avid readers and all of us
> have read at least one book in our lives, I
> thought I'd toss this question out:
> 
> If you were to read a book that combined past and
> present (ie: Two characters current lives and
> their pasts), how would you like to see it done?
> Note: Both are important to the story so I can't
> cut either out.
> 
> Alternating chapters between current time (now)
> and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
> 2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
> actual dates)
> 
> Flashbacks to only the major issues.
> 
> The characters telling others of their own pasts
> without actually seeing it (which leads to very
> long monologues...)
> 
> Any other ideas?

Personally I prefer 'the present' and 'the past' to be
shown in sections (multiple chapters) - it aids the
flow, helps the reader to keep track and to get
involved with the storyline. Too much or too frequent
to-ing and fro-ing can make a tale seem disjointed.
Maybe 5 or 6 such sections at most, preferably fewer.
All down to personal tastes. 

Some writers are very good at the expositional approach,
monologues that explain past actions, thoughts etc. One
of the best being George V. Higgins - he's got a
wonderful sense for speech rhythms too. Highly recommended
if you haven't read his stuff.

Kneasy




From garybec at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 11:56:38 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:56:38 -0000
Subject: Time from paperback release....
In-Reply-To: <ci1vsi+pb1j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ci9alm+2lls@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
<spin01 at a...> wrote:
> Does anyone remember the amount of time between Goblet of Fire 
being 
> released in paperback and Order of Phoenix being released?  Our 
local 
> Target has a huge display of Order of the Phoenix set up.  Was it 
> just released in paperback or did I miss it first time around?  
> Thanks.


Becki here;

The book was released in August, around the time of the Edinburgh 
book fair.  That is why Jo did her book talk then, timing it with 
the paperback release.  I don't know how much time between the GoF 
hardback and paperback releases but I am sure they timed the OoP so 
that the publishers can have some action while they wait for Half-
Blood Prince.

Becki (who is hoping Jo is at a fast pace trying to finish ahead of 
the birth of baby #3)




From theotokos_8679 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 15 14:46:34 2004
From: theotokos_8679 at sbcglobal.net (theotokos)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bella's accent
In-Reply-To: <ci95vf+ojj0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040915144634.55859.qmail@web80301.mail.yahoo.com>

Below is a repost from the main list (my question/comments follow):

lauren_silverwolf <laurens at leroc.net> wrote:
--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" 
<gbannister10 at a...> wrote:

> 'Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before; he flung 
> himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!"
> 
> Bellatrix screamed: the spell had kncoked her off her feet but she 
> did not writhe and shriek with pain as Neville had......
> 
> "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she 
yelled. 
> she had abandoned her baby voice now. "You need to mean them, 
Potter! 
> You need to really want to cause pain - to enjoy it - righteous 
anger 
> won't hurt me for long....."'
> 
> [OT: Why does Bellatrix's use of "boy" make me think she's Welsh, 
he 
> ponders]
> 
> (OOTP "The Only One He Ever Feared" p,.715 UK edition)

If Bellatrix were Welsh, surely she would have used "Boyo"? I hear 
her more in a clipped upper class English accent. This would suit the 
the position in WW society the Black family occupies. To me, the 
term "boy" is used in an almost derogatory way, or at least to 
challenge and denigrate Harry's attempt at an Unforgivable Curse.

 
I wasn't sure if this question was apropos for the main list.  My question refers to the audio books.  I have the Jim Dale version.  He has Bellatrix speaking in a very nerve-grating French (I think) accent.  I always wondered if there is a textual reason for this that I missed.  For those that have the BBritishversion of the audios, how does he (I forget his name) read Bellatrix?  BTW, I cringe every time he speaks in what is meant to be Bellatrix's baby voice.  How does the other guy do it?
 
Theotokos
 

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 14:50:05 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:50:05 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, teas, etc. - LINKS GALORE
In-Reply-To: <55.6187ecf0.2e78cf22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ci9kqt+6ic2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> Someone posted a link the other day for a site where you could shop for 
> English teas, jammie dodgers, etc.  I wrote it down and lost the slip
> of paper I put it on somewhere on this over-piled desk!  
> 
> If you'd send the link again, I'd be ever grateful.  
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> "Luna"

bboyminn:

Not sure what that link might have been, but if you are in the US or
Canada, here is a link to an old post about places to by British foods.

Date:  Fri Apr 4, 2003  3:08 am
Subject:  Re: Harry's sweets - source of Brit Candy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14733

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Other food related Discussions-

Date:  Sun Nov 23, 2003  6:11 pm
Subject:  Mulled Mead and Mulled Wine... MULLED, say what?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/20116

Date:  Sun Dec 7, 2003  1:57 am
Subject:  Brit. Food: Pancakes and Waffles
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/20389

Date:  Sat Apr 5, 2003  4:47 pm
Subject:  Toffee Sweets are like ....?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14753

Date:  Thu Jun 12, 2003  1:29 am
Subject:  Re: Treacle fudge Recipes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/15879


Harry's Sweets-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14729
Sugar Mice, Acid Pops, Peppermint Humbugs are real candy in the UK

Slang and HP- (eventual breaks into a thread about food)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14445

Pies, puddings, biscuits and tarts-((part of the above thread)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14527

Not all of these take you to the beginning of a thread, so be sure to
read both UP and DOWN the thread to get everyone's opinions on the
various subjects.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)







From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 15 15:10:27 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:10:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bella's accent
In-Reply-To: <20040915144634.55859.qmail@web80301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOIELPDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

I think Jim does it in a French-ized accent because of her last name.  It
does make the "baby-talk" work pretty  well, IMO.

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From theotokos_8679 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 15 15:30:03 2004
From: theotokos_8679 at sbcglobal.net (theotokos)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:30:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bella's accent
In-Reply-To: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOIELPDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20040915153003.2811.qmail@web80308.mail.yahoo.com>

"(Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)" <n2fgc at arrl.net> wrote:I think Jim does it in a French-ized accent because of her last name. It
does make the "baby-talk" work pretty well, IMO.

Of course LeStrange being her married name, I am not sure why she should sound French.  He reads the books, surely he listens to what he reads?  I listen to the CD often since I have a commute to work and they are the only audio books I own.  I love NPR but I do get tired of it sometimes.  Anyway, sometimes his inflection seems off.  For example, when Hermione thanks Harry for the book at Christmas and then Ron for the "um, interesting" perfume.  Dales says it so enthusiastically where as I am sure Hermione had her 'trying to be tactful' voice on. : ) 
 
Theotokos





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 18:10:53 2004
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:10:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <ci87ld+v6lt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040915181053.65530.qmail@web41604.mail.yahoo.com>

dumbledore11214 <dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
Hi, guys! I know that the question I am about to ask will be rather difficult and if nobody can answer, I understand. :)


But I am pretty sure that the book, I am trying to remember was 
mentioned here, that is why I am trying. 

At the end of the story, two protagonists merge in one, by that act the soul of the evil one is saved.

Can anybody identify this book for me?


Thanks a lot and sorry that I cannot offer any more clues.


Kemper Now:
That reminds me of the movie "The Dark Crystal."  A mid-80's, fantasy movie with muppets.  Sorry that doesn't help with the book title you're searching for.

 


 


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 15 20:15:28 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:15:28 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <20040915181053.65530.qmail@web41604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOCEMBDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

Where two protagonists merge...didn't the movie "Scanners" do that, sorta?

As far as books go, Hmm--don' know.

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From firedancerflash at comcast.net  Wed Sep 15 21:27:10 2004
From: firedancerflash at comcast.net (Firedancer)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:27:10 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bella's accent
References: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOIELPDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <024b01c49b6a$c2d4c860$e60b8f45@Voov>

Yes, but she isn't French.  She married a Frenchman.  I think her accent
should be British.  June
None but the piper keeps up with the dancer!
   Siempre revelde!!
June




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 21:59:17 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:59:17 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, teas, etc. - LINKS GALORE
In-Reply-To: <ci9kqt+6ic2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciadvl+sa9t@eGroups.com>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/24321

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> > Someone posted a link the other day for a site where you could 
shop for English teas, jammie dodgers, etc.  I wrote it down and 
lost the slip of paper I put it on somewhere on this over-piled 
desk!  
> > 
> > If you'd send the link again, I'd be ever grateful.  
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > "Luna"
> 
>>Snip<<

*****\(@@)/*****

I got lucky. Where I live we have the "North Market" and there are 
all kinds of specialty food places there. One sells only British 
foods and products. He has meat pasties and all kinds of wonderful 
things. I went there today and asked about Jammie Dodgers but he 
said they don't sell that well but he could put in an order for me. 
I was able to get Jaffa cakes and have them at work. Tomorrow we are 
going to have some tea and eat our cakes too!

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From mariaalena at purdue.edu  Wed Sep 15 22:46:11 2004
From: mariaalena at purdue.edu (Maria)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:46:11 -0000
Subject: Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <ci87ld+v6lt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciagnj+l4ac@eGroups.com>

Alla wrote:
> Hi, guys! I know that the question I am about to ask will be rather 
> difficult and if nobody can answer, I understand. :)
> 
> 
> But I am pretty sure that the book, I am trying to remember was 
> mentioned here, that is why I am trying. 
> 
> At the end of the story, two protagonists merge in one, by that act 
> the soul of the evil one is saved.

I read something like it once, but I can't for the life of remember
the name... Oh yes, "Transformation" by Carol Berg. 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451457951/qid=1095288243/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-0142576-6165575?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

At least, I think they merged in one. Might be a false memory. <g>

Maria




From jmmears at comcast.net  Thu Sep 16 00:26:10 2004
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:26:10 -0000
Subject: Bella's accent
In-Reply-To: <20040915144634.55859.qmail@web80301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ciamj2+o0l6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, theotokos 
<theotokos_8679 at s...> wrote:

 
> I wasn't sure if this question was apropos for the main list.  My 
question refers to the audio books.  I have the Jim Dale version.  
He has Bellatrix speaking in a very nerve-grating French (I think) 
accent.  I always wondered if there is a textual reason for this 
that I missed.  For those that have the BBritishversion of the 
audios, how does he (I forget his name) read Bellatrix?  BTW, I 
cringe every time he speaks in what is meant to be Bellatrix's baby 
voice.  How does the other guy do it?


The other guy (Stephen Fry), does not use the very annoying French 
accent.  In fact, it makes no sense whatsoever for Dale to have used 
the accent in OOP because I don't think he used it for Bellatrix in 
GoF.  I can't double-check my Jim Dale GoF cds (I've loaned them 
out), but I was so bothered by it in OOP, I'm sure I'd have 
remembered it in the earlier book.

This is one more reason that I think I'll wait to get Fry's version 
of HBP, rather than get Dale's right away, be frustrated with it and 
end up ordering the UK one on Amazon.

JMHO

Jo S.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 02:10:33 2004
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:10:33 -0000
Subject: Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <ciagnj+l4ac@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciasmp+qf3l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <mariaalena at p...> 
wrote:
> I read something like it once, but I can't for the life of remember
> the name... Oh yes, "Transformation" by Carol Berg. 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0451457951/qid=1095288243/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-
0142576-6165575?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
> 
> At least, I think they merged in one. Might be a false memory. <g>
> 
> Maria.


Alla:

Thank you and thanks to everybody who replied. If someone knows 
another book with definitely same ending , please feel free.

Thank you very much again




From spin01 at aol.com  Thu Sep 16 02:46:23 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:46:23 -0000
Subject: Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <ciasmp+qf3l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciaupv+lklf@eGroups.com>

Not sure if this is what your looking for but I read the "So you want 
to be a wizard" books a while ago.  The second book Deep Wizardry has 
a scene sort of like that at the end.  The wizard had to turn into 
whales and there had to be a sacrifice that would be accepted is that 
the one your talking about?  the evil one was a shark.  that is the 
only book coming to mind for me.  It is by Diane Duane.  
sherry
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Maria" <mariaalena at p...> 
> wrote:
> > I read something like it once, but I can't for the life of 
remember
> > the name... Oh yes, "Transformation" by Carol Berg. 
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
> /0451457951/qid=1095288243/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-
> 0142576-6165575?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
> > 
> > At least, I think they merged in one. Might be a false memory. <g>
> > 
> > Maria.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Thank you and thanks to everybody who replied. If someone knows 
> another book with definitely same ending , please feel free.
> 
> Thank you very much again




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 02:51:43 2004
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:51:43 -0000
Subject: Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <ciaupv+lklf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciav3v+tn25@eGroups.com>

Thanks so much, unfortunately that book is definitely not the one, 
because I did read "So you want to be a wizard" and remember it 
quite well.






From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Sep 16 03:09:53 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:09:53 -0400
Subject: Program on Galveston Hurricane
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOCEMDDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

If you get this tonight...as in the next few minutes, the History Channel is
having a program on the Galveston Hurricane.  Since it was brought up here,
thought someone might be interested.

Lee :-)


Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Sep 16 03:25:31 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:25:31 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Program on Galveston Hurricane
In-Reply-To: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOCEMDDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOIEMDDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

[I had written]:
|
| If you get this tonight...as in the next few minutes, the History
| Channel is
| having a program on the Galveston Hurricane.  Since it was
| brought up here,
| thought someone might be interested.

[Lee adds]:
It's a program on Cat 5 storms; turns out the Galveston thing was the first
15-ish minutes; now they're into Florida.

Cheers,
Lee (Hoping Ivan weakens down!)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From miss_megan at bigpond.com  Thu Sep 16 10:54:36 2004
From: miss_megan at bigpond.com (storm)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:54:36 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <20040915181053.65530.qmail@web41604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PPEOKMGBLEMHDCHHGOLPMEBFCAAA.miss_megan@bigpond.com>

In the first of the Wizard of EarthSea books Ged sets evil free in the world
in an act of pride. He tracks the evil down and is joined with it,
overcoming it.

Does this sound like your memory? Maybe not but I guess it's not an uncommon
theme.

cheers

storm, off to toilet a possum. the excitement wildlife rehab offers!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.764 / Virus Database: 511 - Release Date: 15/09/2004




From staceymateo at gmail.com  Thu Sep 16 12:39:28 2004
From: staceymateo at gmail.com (staceymateo)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:39:28 -0000
Subject: Time from paperback release....
In-Reply-To: <ci9alm+2lls@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cic1i0+5c02@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "garybec" <garybec at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
> <spin01 at a...> wrote:
> > Does anyone remember the amount of time between Goblet of Fire 
> being 
> > released in paperback and Order of Phoenix being released?  Our 
> local 
> > Target has a huge display of Order of the Phoenix set up.  Was it 
> > just released in paperback or did I miss it first time around?  
> > Thanks.
> 
> 
> Becki here;
> 
> The book was released in August, around the time of the Edinburgh 
> book fair.  That is why Jo did her book talk then, timing it with 
> the paperback release.  I don't know how much time between the GoF 
> hardback and paperback releases but I am sure they timed the OoP so 
> that the publishers can have some action while they wait for Half-
> Blood Prince.
> 
>

Stacey here: *quick wave*

Decided to de-lurk for a minute and see if my memory is not as fuzzy 
as I think it is.  GoF came out in paperback about 10 months prior to 
OotP being released.  That, in actual calendar time, means it hit the 
stores in August 2003.  So, if the pattern stays the same *crossing 
my fingers* then we should see HBP around this time next June.  That 
makes sense, seeing as how GoF, the movie, is currently scheduled for 
a November 2005 release.  Something new always hits every 6 months to 
1 year.  It keeps the franchise alive, and 6 months-1 year is 
industry standard for "new" things.




From marty.larson at verizon.net  Thu Sep 16 15:10:06 2004
From: marty.larson at verizon.net (Marty Larson)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:10:06 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site
Message-ID: <cicace+avq8@eGroups.com>

Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned 
another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook 
items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I haven't 
missed some.
Marty




From mail at chartfield.net  Thu Sep 16 15:47:07 2004
From: mail at chartfield.net (queen_astrofiammante)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:47:07 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site
In-Reply-To: <cicace+avq8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cicchr+mehf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson" 
<marty.larson at v...> wrote:
> Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned 
> another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook 
> items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I haven't 
> missed some.
> Marty

There are two new scrapbook items available. Which page did you 
access yours from?




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Thu Sep 16 16:32:47 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:32:47 EDT
Subject: JK's baby
Message-ID: <fe.1631ddf.2e7b1a2f@aol.com>

>Becki (who is hoping Jo is at a fast pace trying to finish ahead of 
the birth of baby #3)<


Speaking of baby number three ... does anyone know when EXACTLY she is due?

"Luna"

-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 16:36:20 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:36:20 -0000
Subject: Links-Jammie Dodgers, teas, .... - Really - LINKS GALORE
In-Reply-To: <ci9kqt+6ic2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cicfe4+njin@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> > Someone posted a link the other day for a site where you could
> > shop for  English teas, jammie dodgers, etc.  ...
> >
> > If you'd send the link again, I'd be ever grateful.  
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > "Luna"
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Not sure what that link might have been, but if you are in the US or
> Canada, here is a link to an old post about places to by British foods.
> 
> Date:  Fri Apr 4, 2003  3:08 am
> Subject:  Re: Harry's sweets - source of Brit Candy
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14733
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 

bboyminn:

Pardon me for repeating myself but...

In the link above is another link shown below-

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
http://www.britsinthestates.com/Food.htm

This list link is in two section this is the link to 'Food A-D'. You
will find another link at the top for 'Food E-Z' and at the bottom you
will find a link to a Brit Webring.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

This is an important link because it is really a Directory of all the
British themed Stores, Pubs, and Cafes in the USA and Canada. There
are hundreds of links here to British food stores located all across
the USA.

The first link (listed above) takes you to "Food A-D", to see other
links, look at the link list menu at the bottom of that webpage.


> Other food related Discussions-
> ...edited...
> 
> Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)

bboyminn:

Won't bore you by posting the links again, but the previous food
threads and thread on Slang were VERY interesting. I spent most of
yesterday afternoon re-reading the 'Pancakes and Waflles' threads and
the 'Pies, puddings, biscuits and tarts' which is actually an
off-shoot of the 'Slang and HP' thread. These are all very long
in-depth threads with tons of info about life, food, and language in
Britian.

I know some people don't like to go back and read old threads, but
these were all great discussions. I loved participating in them, and I
loved re-reading them. You'd be surprised by how much there is to say
about 'pancakes'. Did you know there is a 'Pancake Tuesday' when
nearly everybody eats pancakes?

TIP:
Some posts to these threads 'break' the thread. That is, they were
made as independant posts to a subject, rather than a Reply to a
specific post, and therefore are not part of the Thread list. The best
way to make sure you got all the posts on a given subject is to
periodically select [Message Index] from the colored menu bar found at
the top of every post. That will bring you to the "Messages" list with
your current message listed at the top of the page. That allows you to
see a list of all the other messages that were made on that same date. 


I had so much fun, just thought I would give others some additional
encouragement.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 18:32:06 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:32:06 -0000
Subject: JKR's rubbish bin?
Message-ID: <cicm76+710s@eGroups.com>

Has anyone seen a new article about JKR's husband on her official
site, supposedly to be found in her rubbish bin? Not that I care about
her personal life, which is her business, but I haven't seen any such
object on her site. In fact, I'd swear from the state of her desk that
she doesn't own (or has misplaced) what we Americans would call a
waste basket. Anyway, here's the link to the short article, ostensibly
by JKR and appearing on her site:

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0505971/

Comments, anybody? Thanks,

Carol, who has one new scrapbook item and is searching for the second
but doesn't want any clues yet--unless the rubbish bin *is* the clue
or connected with it




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 18:43:26 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:43:26 -0000
Subject: Statute of Secrecy of 1692
In-Reply-To: <cgtloq+h4p6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cicmse+2u2c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> wrote:
> Sara wrote:
> 
> > I just thought it was an all-girls school. I'm sure it
> > isn't related to an American wizarding government in
> > any way, so what else would it be? I'm not familiar
> > with the Women's Institute. Besides, it's possible JK
> > used the name with several intentions in mind.
> 
> Yes, as she often does.  There is a joke to its being akin to the 
> Women's Institute, though, so it's nice to know what it is and be 
> let in on the joke.
> 
> Amy Z

Carol:
But to return to the original question, does anyone think that the
Statute of Secrecy of 1692 is related to the Salem witch Trials of the
same year?

Carol, whose post started the thread but was erased early in the
discussion




From marty.larson at verizon.net  Thu Sep 16 18:43:54 2004
From: marty.larson at verizon.net (Marty Larson)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:43:54 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site
In-Reply-To: <cicchr+mehf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "queen_astrofiammante" 
<mail at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson" 
> <marty.larson at v...> wrote:
> > Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned 
> > another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook 
> > items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I 
haven't 
> > missed some.
> > Marty
> 
> There are two new scrapbook items available. Which page did you 
> access yours from?

I found the eggshell, toothpicks, and bubbles, connecting through 
the rubbish bin.  Is there another one?

Marty





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 18:54:42 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:54:42 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site
In-Reply-To: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cicnhi+3l4j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson"
<marty.larson at v...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "queen_astrofiammante" 
> <mail at c...> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson" 
> > <marty.larson at v...> wrote:
> > > Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned 
> > > another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook 
> > > items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I 
> haven't 
> > > missed some.
> > > Marty
> > 
> > There are two new scrapbook items available. Which page did you 
> > access yours from?
> 
> I found the eggshell, toothpicks, and bubbles, connecting through 
> the rubbish bin.  Is there another one?
> 
> Marty

Yes, one more. All necessary info is posted at the Leaky: 
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/

Annemehr





From lists at heidi8.com  Thu Sep 16 18:53:56 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:53:56 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
In-Reply-To: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com>
References: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1095360839.12CC0685@h28.dngr.org>


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 2:52pm, Marty Larson and "queen_astrofiammante" 
asked about scrapbook items. Http://www.potterskeys.com is the best 
resource for information about anything on jkr's site but be warned - it 
is spoiler-filled!

Heidi
Http://www.fictionalley.org



From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 19:22:15 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:22:15 -0000
Subject: Statute of Secrecy of 1692
In-Reply-To: <20040824223730.5428.qmail@web53503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cicp57+7thj@eGroups.com>

I (Carol) wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone considered the possibility of a connection between the
Statute of Secrecy of 1692 and the Salem Witch Trials in the same
year? I realize that the trials took place in America, but
Massachusetts was a British colony at the time. (My ancestor, Martha
Carrier, was hanged there.)
> 
Sara Lanthiriel responded kindly:
> Wow. This may not be allowed on list, but I would love
> to hear more about your ancestor and how you found out
> about her.
> 
 

Hi, Sara. Since this is an OT chatter list, I see no reason why the
List Elves would object to my answering your question. I first found
out about Martha Carrier (not knowing that she was my ancestor) when I
read about her in high school in connection with Nathaniel Hawthorne's
story "Young Goodman Brown." The narrator, who is actually
paraphrasing one of the judges in the trial (Cotton Mather? I can't
remember) rather unkindly says of Martha "a rampant hag was she" and
states that she's "the promised bride of Satan" who intends to make
her the Queen of Hell (in the original trial transcriptions, it's
Queen of the Hebrews," but that was apparently politically incorrect
even in Hawthorne's day so he changed it). The quotes are from memory
and may be slightly inaccurate, but you get the idea.

Anyway, of course I didn't believe that the accusations were true--the
Salem witches" were victims of mass hysteria--but imagine my surprise
when my aunt (my father's sister), who's interested in genealogy,
showed me a family tree in which one of our ancestors was Martha
Carrier, died 1692! Later the same aunt sent me some additional
materials, unquestionably authentic and obtained from the Mayflower
Society and similar sources (we also have a much less interesting
Mayflower ancestor), about other ancestors who were descended from
Martha, including Revolutionary War heroes with names like Stallworthy
Waters and Consider Law. It turns out that Martha's husband, a
gigantic Welshman who lived into his nineties, was rumored to be the
executioner of Charles I. In other words, he did the dirty work for
the Puritans but was probably a Catholic himself. No wonder the
Puritans were willing to accept charges of witchcraft against his
wife, who was in her fifties and still having children.

So I have this theory that I'm not a true Muggle because there's a
gene for witch blood some nine generations back (I haven't counted: it
may be even further back). Some day when I have the time and money
I'll write a biography of her, possibly fictionalized. Or a book of
short biographies of all the Salem "witches," though Martha is the
only one I really care about since her blood flows in my veins.
(Martha's maiden name was Ingalls, by the way, so for all I know I may
also be related to Laura Ingalls Wilder. Ho hum.)

Hope you found this interesting!

Carol, with apologies for the late response but I've been trying to
catch up with the main list and have somewhat neglected this one 




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 19:24:55 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:24:55 -0000
Subject: Statute of Secrecy of 1692
In-Reply-To: <cgi36b+nnus@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cicpa7+nmrl@eGroups.com>

> > Wow. This may not be allowed on list, but I would love
> > to hear more about your ancestor [Martha Carrier] and how you
found out
> > about her.
> > 
> > Sara Lanthiriel
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, me, too!  Me, too!  I think that is fascinating about the witch 
> trials and the statute.  This is off topic chatter, right?  I'll be 
> waiting!
> 
> Alora :)

Hi, Alora. See my previous post regarding Martha. Sorry to keep you
waiting so long.

Carol




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 21:30:25 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:30:25 -0000
Subject: Jaffa cakes/Jammie Dodgers etc....
Message-ID: <cid0lh+pci2@eGroups.com>

I had my Jaffa cakes this morning around 10 am and now I am addicted 
to them. I let several people have one and ate all the rest myself 
throughout the day! Very tasty *smacks lips*
Now I am on a search to obtain Jammie Dodgers to see what they are 
all about. Time to go see the man at the specialty store....

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From dzny72 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 16 21:56:13 2004
From: dzny72 at yahoo.com (dzny72)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:56:13 -0000
Subject: JKR website
Message-ID: <cid25t+5b9q@eGroups.com>

I have found the "Rubbish Bin" and discovered the new potion 
ingredients--does anyone have any idea what the first one is supposed 
to be?  Any hints (without giving it all away) would be appreciated!






From valy1x2 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 16 21:42:20 2004
From: valy1x2 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Val=E9rie_Brabon?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:42:20 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
References: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com> <1095360839.12CC0685@h28.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <BAY17-DAV980pshGfs60000ed75@hotmail.com>

About the round marble on the desk, wait for Peeves to pass by, and when he's around, click quickly on the marble, you'll get a new present! =)

Now, it makes 6 stuff saved in my scarpbook. =)

Hope it does help.

Valy.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 03:09:47 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (Jenny H)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:09:47 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
References: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com> <1095360839.12CC0685@h28.dngr.org> <BAY17-DAV980pshGfs60000ed75@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <01d901c49c63$e3e75320$0201a8c0@ROLLTIDE>

Okay. I have 5 things in my scrap book, and I thought I had everything.
Ancient Drawings (Page 1)
Early page of PS
Typed Manufscript of PS
Page of Doodlings (Page 2)
Ancient Drawings (Page 4)

What am I missing and how do I get it? Please!!!!!
Jenny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Val?rie Brabon 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


  About the round marble on the desk, wait for Peeves to pass by, and when he's around, click quickly on the marble, you'll get a new present! =)

  Now, it makes 6 stuff saved in my scarpbook. =)

  Hope it does help.

  Valy.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From bugeyedmonster2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 01:05:15 2004
From: bugeyedmonster2 at yahoo.com (Barbara Miller)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The many cliches of smut fanfics...
Message-ID: <20040917010515.70668.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com>

       Go here if you want to check out the overused 
cliches of smut stories. Good for a laugh, but be
warned... it's very, very naughty! (Like that will
stop most of you!)

http://www.modemac.com/cliches.html  

And this might help some aspiring smut fanfic writers.
Now you'll know for sure which cliches to avoid!

(^_^)/
BEM 



		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com




From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 04:19:55 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (Jenny H)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:19:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
References: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <027801c49c6d$f61c88d0$0201a8c0@ROLLTIDE>

Where did you find the toothpicks? I found the egg shells and bubbles.
Jenny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marty Larson 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:43 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "queen_astrofiammante" 
  <mail at c...> wrote:
  > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson" 
  > <marty.larson at v...> wrote:
  > > Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned 
  > > another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook 
  > > items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I 
  haven't 
  > > missed some.
  > > Marty
  > 
  > There are two new scrapbook items available. Which page did you 
  > access yours from?

  I found the eggshell, toothpicks, and bubbles, connecting through 
  the rubbish bin.  Is there another one?

  Marty




  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
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  Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!



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From valy1x2 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 17 05:02:22 2004
From: valy1x2 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Val=E9rie_Brabon?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:02:22 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
References: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com> <027801c49c6d$f61c88d0$0201a8c0@ROLLTIDE>
Message-ID: <BAY17-DAV15JxArGvnC000d7b82@hotmail.com>

The toothpicks are where the teacup leads. behind a picture or the paper you
must use the ereaser on, look at closely, you'll see some picks. :)

Hope it helps!

Valy.

PS: Sorry about my bad english...

----- Original Message -----
From: Jenny H
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


Where did you find the toothpicks? I found the egg shells and bubbles.
Jenny
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Marty Larson
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:43 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "queen_astrofiammante"
  <mail at c...> wrote:
  > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson"
  > <marty.larson at v...> wrote:
  > > Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned
  > > another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook
  > > items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I
  haven't
  > > missed some.
  > > Marty
  >
  > There are two new scrapbook items available. Which page did you
  > access yours from?

  I found the eggshell, toothpicks, and bubbles, connecting through
  the rubbish bin.  Is there another one?

  Marty




  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

  Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!



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From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 05:56:19 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (Jenny H)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:56:19 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
References: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com> <027801c49c6d$f61c88d0$0201a8c0@ROLLTIDE> <BAY17-DAV15JxArGvnC000d7b82@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <030601c49c7b$1edd0c10$0201a8c0@ROLLTIDE>

Thanks!!! Found them right away.
Jenny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Val?rie Brabon 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 12:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


  The toothpicks are where the teacup leads. behind a picture or the paper you
  must use the ereaser on, look at closely, you'll see some picks. :)

  Hope it helps!

  Valy.

  PS: Sorry about my bad english...

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jenny H
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


  Where did you find the toothpicks? I found the egg shells and bubbles.
  Jenny
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Marty Larson
    To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:43 PM
    Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


    --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "queen_astrofiammante"
    <mail at c...> wrote:
    > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marty Larson"
    > <marty.larson at v...> wrote:
    > > Since there are some new things on the website, and I've earned
    > > another scrapbook item, I've been wondering - How many scrapbook
    > > items are there?  I have five, but now I'm wondering if I
    haven't
    > > missed some.
    > > Marty
    >
    > There are two new scrapbook items available. Which page did you
    > access yours from?

    I found the eggshell, toothpicks, and bubbles, connecting through
    the rubbish bin.  Is there another one?

    Marty




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From lavaluvn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 07:21:28 2004
From: lavaluvn at yahoo.com (lavaluvn)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:21:28 -0000
Subject: Novel help: Intermixing past and present
In-Reply-To: <ci901o+i104@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cie39o+gciq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Saitaina" 
<saitaina at f...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > > Alternating chapters between current time (now)
> > > and the past.  Such as, Chapter One: New York,
> > > 2004, Chapter Two: Romania, 1756 (examples, not
> > > actual dates)
> > 
> > Katherine Neville's _The Eight_ was written like this, and I 
liked
> > that style very much.  It worked for that book especially, 
because
> > each timeline was as important as the other.  I suggest this way 
if
> > you have more than just a little to tell about the past.
> > 
> > Annemehr
> 
> Peg Kerr's book 'The Wild Swans' did the same thing. Personally, 
it 
> didn't work for me, but mainly because I thought there wasn't much 
> connection between the two stories (contemporary and medieval)that 
> she was telling. There was just a tiny link up in the final 
chapter.
> 
> One book where the technique worked brilliantly IMO 
was 'Possession' 
> by A S Byatt, unravelling a historical mystery but also a parallel 
> bittersweet contemporary romance between the literary researchers.
> 
> Carolyn

Yes, that was a great example (Possession).  One very interesting 
(if occasionally hard to follow) combination of alternating time 
with chapter and time travel is "The TIme Traveller's Wife"

-Andromeda




From lavaluvn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 07:27:14 2004
From: lavaluvn at yahoo.com (lavaluvn)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:27:14 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, teas, etc. - LINKS GALORE
In-Reply-To: <ci9kqt+6ic2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cie3ki+7unp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> > Someone posted a link the other day for a site where you could 
shop for 
> > English teas, jammie dodgers, etc.  I wrote it down and lost the 
slip
> > of paper I put it on somewhere on this over-piled desk!  
> > 
> > If you'd send the link again, I'd be ever grateful.  
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > "Luna"
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Not sure what that link might have been, but if you are in the US 
or
> Canada, here is a link to an old post about places to by British 
foods.
> 
> Date:  Fri Apr 4, 2003  3:08 am
> Subject:  Re: Harry's sweets - source of Brit Candy
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14733
> 

ALong these lines, I had to ask a burning question to the Brits out 
there - when living in the UK fell in love with "Hobnobs" (an oat-y 
biscuit/cookie), particularly the chocolate-covered kind.  Are they 
still around?  For some reason we don't get them over here on the 
other side of the planet.

Thanks,
Andromeda




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep 17 08:44:45 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:44:45 -0000
Subject: Statute of Secrecy of 1692
In-Reply-To: <cicp57+7thj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cie85t+5eff@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote, of Martha Carrier:

> "Queen of the Hebrews," 

> It turns out that Martha's husband, a
> gigantic Welshman who lived into his nineties

> in her fifties and still having children.

Sounds like her kids were half-blood princes, then

David




From mail at chartfield.net  Fri Sep 17 10:17:47 2004
From: mail at chartfield.net (queen_astrofiammante)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:17:47 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site
In-Reply-To: <cicmta+d3uu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciedkb+jrfq@eGroups.com>

> I found the eggshell, toothpicks, and bubbles, connecting through 
> the rubbish bin.  Is there another one?
> 
> Marty

My advice for finding it below

DON'T READ ON IF YOU WOULD RATHER FIND IT YOURSELF

Watch the front page (the desktop) and see what changes when Peeves 
comes through... Click on an item that glows...




From cquinn at mn.rr.com  Fri Sep 17 13:21:22 2004
From: cquinn at mn.rr.com (twobeaglesgirl)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:21:22 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <01d901c49c63$e3e75320$0201a8c0@ROLLTIDE>
Message-ID: <cieoci+1qcv@eGroups.com>

You are missing 1) the drawing of Nearly Headless Nick and, 2) the 
drawing of peeves.
Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....

S
P
O
I
L
E
R


B
E
L
O
W


733837
that will get the drawing of peeves

Then you have to collect the three new items throughout the 
website.  Hint-break the pen in the new Rubbish room and the ink 
will leak and reveal the items.


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jenny H" <BamaJenny12 at y...> 
wrote:
> Okay. I have 5 things in my scrap book, and I thought I had 
everything.
> Ancient Drawings (Page 1)
> Early page of PS
> Typed Manufscript of PS
> Page of Doodlings (Page 2)
> Ancient Drawings (Page 4)
> 
> What am I missing and how do I get it? Please!!!!!
> Jenny
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Val?rie Brabon 
>   To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:42 PM
>   Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
> 
> 
>   About the round marble on the desk, wait for Peeves to pass by, 
and when he's around, click quickly on the marble, you'll get a new 
present! =)
> 
>   Now, it makes 6 stuff saved in my scarpbook. =)
> 
>   Hope it does help.
> 
>   Valy.
> 
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
> 
>   Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's 
Admin Files!
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
> 
>   Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary 
material from posts to which you're replying!
> 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>              
>        
>        
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of Service. 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 15:35:19 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:35:19 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
References: <cieoci+1qcv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <011201c49ccb$f443e180$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>

Thanks!!! I 'think' I have everything now. At least I have
everything that has been discovered so far. It is really no
telling what all JKR could have hidden in the website. Is there
anything special/extra with the spinning top on the Rubbish
Bin page? All I have been able to do is get it to spin, and I
can't tell that it makes any difference with anything else
on the page.
Jenny

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: twobeaglesgirl 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:21 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)


  You are missing 1) the drawing of Nearly Headless Nick and, 2) the 
  drawing of peeves.
  Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....

  S
  P
  O
  I
  L
  E
  R


  B
  E
  L
  O
  W


  733837
  that will get the drawing of peeves

  Then you have to collect the three new items throughout the 
  website.  Hint-break the pen in the new Rubbish room and the ink 
  will leak and reveal the items.


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jenny H" <BamaJenny12 at y...> 
  wrote:
  > Okay. I have 5 things in my scrap book, and I thought I had 
  everything.
  > Ancient Drawings (Page 1)
  > Early page of PS
  > Typed Manufscript of PS
  > Page of Doodlings (Page 2)
  > Ancient Drawings (Page 4)
  > 
  > What am I missing and how do I get it? Please!!!!!
  > Jenny
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Val?rie Brabon 
  >   To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  >   Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:42 PM
  >   Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
  > 
  > 
  >   About the round marble on the desk, wait for Peeves to pass by, 
  and when he's around, click quickly on the marble, you'll get a new 
  present! =)
  > 
  >   Now, it makes 6 stuff saved in my scarpbook. =)
  > 
  >   Hope it does help.
  > 
  >   Valy.
  > 
  >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >   ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
  > 
  >   Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's 
  Admin Files!
  >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
  > 
  >   Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary 
  material from posts to which you're replying!
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
  >               ADVERTISEMENT
  >              
  >        
  >        
  > 
  > 
  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
  -----------
  >   Yahoo! Groups Links
  > 
  >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
  >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/
  >       
  >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  >     HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
  >       
  >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
  of Service. 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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From ms-tamany at rcn.com  Fri Sep 17 15:38:19 2004
From: ms-tamany at rcn.com (Tammy Rizzo)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:38:19 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <011201c49ccb$f443e180$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>
Message-ID: <E1C8KoZ-00057A-00@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net>

You mean the Sneak-O-Scope?  Hmmmm . . . it does seem to go off when you
mouse over it.  I wonder who's being sneaky, us or Jo?

 

 

***

Tammy Rizzo

 <mailto:ms-tamany at rcn.com> ms-tamany at rcn.com

 

  _____  

From: bamajenny12 [mailto:BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:35 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)

 

Thanks!!! I 'think' I have everything now. At least I have
everything that has been discovered so far. It is really no
telling what all JKR could have hidden in the website. Is there
anything special/extra with the spinning top on the Rubbish
Bin page? All I have been able to do is get it to spin, and I
can't tell that it makes any difference with anything else
on the page.
Jenny





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Fri Sep 17 16:55:46 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:55:46 EDT
Subject: STACEY - HBP estimate
Message-ID: <79.342a9f35.2e7c7112@aol.com>

> "Stacey here: *quick wave*

Decided to de-lurk for a minute and see if my memory is not as fuzzy 
as I think it is.  GoF came out in paperback about 10 months prior to 
OotP being released.  That, in actual calendar time, means it hit the 
stores in August 2003.  So, if the pattern stays the same *crossing 
my fingers* then we should see HBP around this time next June.  That 
makes sense, seeing as how GoF, the movie, is currently scheduled for 
a November 2005 release.  Something new always hits every 6 months to 
1 year.  It keeps the franchise alive, and 6 months-1 year is 
industry standard for "new" things." <


Thanks for de-lurking Stacey.  :)  I agree with you.  I do marketing and 
promotions by profession and completely agree with your estimate.  I also think 
that since kids will get out of school in June, this would be a good time to 
release a new book so that they can all read it this summer.  :)

"Luna"

-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Fri Sep 17 16:59:36 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:59:36 EDT
Subject: Steve/bboyminn
Message-ID: <13c.17f98de.2e7c71f8@aol.com>

http://www.britsinthestates.com/Food.htm


Thanks for the link!  I found a place not too far from where I live that I 
will have to plan a time to go and visit.  :)

"Luna"

-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Fri Sep 17 17:34:11 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:34:11 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
Message-ID: <1c2.1e7a731e.2e7c7a13@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/17/2004 8:46:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com writes:
You are missing 1) the drawing of Nearly Headless Nick and, 2) the 
  drawing of peeves.
  Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....

  S
  P
  O
  I
  L
  E
  R


  B
  E
  L
  O
  W


  733837
  that will get the drawing of peeves
I tried this 4 times and couldn't make it work.   HELP!!
Thanks,
Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sad1199 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 13:55:02 2004
From: sad1199 at yahoo.com (sad1199)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:55:02 -0000
Subject: Peeves? Help!
Message-ID: <cieqbm+3qrd@eGroups.com>

sad1199 asks: 

When you are on JKR site how do you know when Peeves comes through? 
How long do you have to wait? This is the only piece I am missing 
from my scrapbook so far (the one with the marble and Peeves). 

Thank you. sad1199





From Botbyl at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 17 18:28:02 2004
From: Botbyl at hotmail.com (Kara Botbyl)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:28:02 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
Message-ID: <BAY13-F34NrygVVSmSb0001ae14@hotmail.com>

Valy:
> About the round marble on the desk, wait for Peeves to pass by, and when 
> he's around, click quickly on the marble, you'll get a new present! =)
>
> Now, it makes 6 stuff saved in my scarpbook. =)



I cant find the bubbles!!!! Where are the bubbles!?!

Kara





From garybec at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 19:05:30 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:05:30 -0000
Subject: Peeves? Help!
In-Reply-To: <cieqbm+3qrd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cifchq+8vpl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sad1199" <sad1199 at y...> 
wrote:
> sad1199 asks: 
> 
> When you are on JKR site how do you know when Peeves comes 
through? 
> How long do you have to wait? This is the only piece I am missing 
> from my scrapbook so far (the one with the marble and Peeves). 
> 
> Thank you. sad1199
.
I can help, I can help!!!

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
.
.
.
.


You have to sit there and watch, don't leave because you have to 
click the marble when it glows, and it only glows when peeves is 
there, not after he is gone and he is only there for a few seconds.  
I had to sit and wait for him three times before I got it.  
You can tell he is coming when you hear blowing wind first, then (I 
think) is when the marble glows.  It takes about 5 minutes (I am 
guessing here) of just sitting there watching, and don't touch 
anything, mouse or keyboard.  Peeves will only come if he thinks 
noone is there.

Good Luck, Becki




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Fri Sep 17 19:07:58 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:07:58 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Peeves? Help!
Message-ID: <bd.45ad0058.2e7c900e@aol.com>

sad1199 asked:
When you are on JKR site how do you know when Peeves comes through? 


Chancie replies:
I'mt not sure how long it takes for peeves to come thru, but you will know 
because you will hear a gush of wind, the watch will flash, and the pencil 
holder will start to shake then fall over.  Hope that helps.  Good Luck!!

Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 19:08:43 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:08:43 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
References: <1c2.1e7a731e.2e7c7a13@aol.com>
Message-ID: <07d801c49ce9$c94a0180$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 12:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)


  In a message dated 9/17/2004 8:46:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
  BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com writes:
  You are missing 1) the drawing of Nearly Headless Nick and, 2) the 
    drawing of peeves.
    Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....

    S
    P
    O
    I
    L
    E
    R


    B
    E
    L
    O
    W


    733837
    that will get the drawing of peeves
  I tried this 4 times and couldn't make it work.   HELP!!
  Thanks,
  Chancie

  Jenny here:
  Dial the phone, by clicking on each number. Be sure you hear
  the tone for each button. Then click on the send button (the
  green button with the outline of the phone).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From abbid at carterassoc.com  Fri Sep 17 19:14:44 2004
From: abbid at carterassoc.com (amdorn)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:14:44 -0000
Subject: JKRowling Website questions
Message-ID: <cifd34+pjmo@eGroups.com>

I now have six pieces in my scrapbook.  I must say the 
toothpicks/hairs/grasses were rather well hidden.  My questions are 
regarding three things that have stood out at me while I was at the 
website.

1.  The sneak-o-scope in the "rubbish bin" area.  When I hit the tab 
button while the mouse is over the sneak-o-scope it stops moving but 
still makes noise.  Is there more than meets the eye with this?  Or 
am I being paranoid?

2.  When peeves went by the main desk page and changed the marble he 
also did something to the watch.  It added 11 more hands for a total 
of 12 hands and also what looks like the phases of the moon instead 
of numbers.  Does anyone think this has any significance?

3.  How are people who use the text only version able to get the 
extras for their scrapbook?  

Just was wondering if anyone else out there was curious about these 
things too.

Amdorn




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Fri Sep 17 19:35:37 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:35:37 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] JKRowling Website questions
Message-ID: <25.4d83bd83.2e7c9689@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/17/2004 12:17:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
abbid at carterassoc.com writes:
2.  When peeves went by the main desk page and changed the marble he 
also did something to the watch.  It added 11 more hands for a total 
of 12 hands and also what looks like the phases of the moon instead 
of numbers.  Does anyone think this has any significance?
    

I actualy thought the watch resembled a dart board. (maybe that's just me) I 
also wonderd if this was significant because the last time the door was open 
you had to throw DARTS to get past the cork board.  The watch also reminded me 
of the Weasley's clock, with all the hands.  
Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 19:36:17 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:36:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site
References: <BAY13-F34NrygVVSmSb0001ae14@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c49ced$bdfa5ba0$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kara Botbyl 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site


  Valy:
  > About the round marble on the desk, wait for Peeves to pass by, and when 
  > he's around, click quickly on the marble, you'll get a new present! =)
  >
  > Now, it makes 6 stuff saved in my scarpbook. =)



  I cant find the bubbles!!!! Where are the bubbles!?!

  Kara

  Kara, go to the Fan Sites page and move the empty medal
  box (top shelf).
  Jenny



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Fri Sep 17 19:54:38 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:54:38 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
Message-ID: <8.57a0c197.2e7c9afe@aol.com>

Drawing of peeves.
  Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....

  S
  P
  O
  I
  L
  E
  R


  B
  E
  L
  O
  W


  733837
  that will get the drawing of peeves


Chancie:
I have tried this over and over.  I dont' know what's going on or why it 
won't work!  I've made the cell work before by punching in "M-A-G-I-C" but this 
number comes up with the triangle and "!" in it.  I know I'm doing it right but 
it won't work!  Do you have any clue as to why it won't work???

Thanks,
Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:21:09 2004
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:21:09 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
Message-ID: <cifgvl+6qhs@eGroups.com>

I saw the oddest thing yesterday...It was a bumper sticker that 
looked like a standard US political banner.  It read "Republicans for 
Voldemort".  It took me by surprise, but I wondered where you would 
find something like that...any thoughts from the group?  (I don't 
really WANT one of them...just looking for some comments.)
:D




From entropymail at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 20:33:05 2004
From: entropymail at yahoo.com (entropymail)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:33:05 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <8.57a0c197.2e7c9afe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cifhm1+gtp6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, chnc1024 at A... wrote:
> Drawing of peeves.
>   Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....
> 
>   S
>   P
>   O
>   I
>   L
>   E
>   R
> 
> 
>   B
>   E
>   L
>   O
>   W
> 
> 
>   733837
>   that will get the drawing of peeves


Just wanted to mention that the new number spells "PEEVES".  That is
all...


:: Entropy ::




From cunning_spirit at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 21:34:54 2004
From: cunning_spirit at yahoo.com (cunning_spirit)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:34:54 -0000
Subject: Is it too early to ask about Halloween?  (It IS next month, technically!)
In-Reply-To: <ch3ehf+tkj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cifl9u+eean@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> Are you going in HP related costume?
> 
> Curious:  if so, will you be using the 'old style' or 'new style' 
> uniform, or none (e.g. nonstudent wizard)?
> 
> Anyone going to relevant events or planning them, in HP garb?
> 
> A.J.  (there were lots of Hogwarts students running around Greater 
> Boston last year... all houses... I think I will choose 'old style' 
> for wider recognition, though I have the new tie...)
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/ajl/hp.html


Aha!! I must have seen you at Noreascon 4 over Labor Day!!  You came out of a door going 
into the Concourse area. My husband and I were enjoying an exhibit of some Terry 
Pratchett (the guest of honor) memorabilia, when you swept by, and I did a double-take.  
That is an excellent outfit! First rate!!





From cunning_spirit at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 21:58:06 2004
From: cunning_spirit at yahoo.com (cunning_spirit)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:58:06 -0000
Subject: Estel is the Half Blood Prince
In-Reply-To: <ch9v47+u7ch@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cifmle+q5ps@eGroups.com>


> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
> wrote:
 and what the heck happened to the poor elves that 
> got them turned into house elves.

Well, Tolkien did point out that the elves who remained behind would "dwindle".... Though 
that's an AWFUL lot of dwindling to go from Legolas to Dobby.....eek!

cunning spirit
 





From valy1x2 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 17 21:55:50 2004
From: valy1x2 at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Val=E9rie_Brabon?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:55:50 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
References: <E1C8KoZ-00057A-00@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <BAY17-DAV12tJLtosJ300009464@hotmail.com>

Sneak-o-scope?

Maybe it's a anagram... (we know JKR... witty evil woman she is.)
I mean... Snape-E-Cooks?
"Cooks"? Potions???

Now this is being stupid from my part... lol. Wank theory... lol.

Sorry about this. =D

Valy.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tammy Rizzo 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 5:38 PM
  Subject: RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)


  You mean the Sneak-O-Scope?  Hmmmm . . . it does seem to go off when you
  mouse over it.  I wonder who's being sneaky, us or Jo?





  ***

  Tammy Rizzo

  <mailto:ms-tamany at rcn.com> ms-tamany at rcn.com



    _____  

  From: bamajenny12 [mailto:BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com] 
  Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:35 AM
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)



  Thanks!!! I 'think' I have everything now. At least I have
  everything that has been discovered so far. It is really no
  telling what all JKR could have hidden in the website. Is there
  anything special/extra with the spinning top on the Rubbish
  Bin page? All I have been able to do is get it to spin, and I
  can't tell that it makes any difference with anything else
  on the page.
  Jenny





  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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From ziggyfan32 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 17 15:18:11 2004
From: ziggyfan32 at yahoo.com (Amy Miller)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <cieoci+1qcv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040917151811.95252.qmail@web61310.mail.yahoo.com>

twobeaglesgirl <cquinn at mn.rr.com> wrote:
> You are missing 1) the drawing of Nearly Headless Nick and, 2) the 
> drawing of Peeves.
> Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....

S
P
O
I
L
E
R


B
E
L
O
W
>
> 733837
> that will get the drawing of Peeves
>
> Then you have to collect the three new items throughout the 
> website.  Hint-break the pen in the new Rubbish room and the 
> ink will leak and reveal the items.


What are some of the other numbers that you can dial on the cell phone?
Please help me out here!

Amy  Ziggyfan




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 01:26:52 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sugar Quill "Honey"
In-Reply-To: <BAY17-DAV12tJLtosJ300009464@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20040918012652.37115.qmail@web53505.mail.yahoo.com>

I just wanted to do a little brag.  My new baby "Southcrest Sugar Quill" also known as "Honey" (after Honeydukes) showed in her first match tonight.  She took best puppy bitch in her breed (sheltie).  She is 16 weeks old.  She is a pistol!!  She did really well.  I had a judge and a couple of professional handlers talking about her ring presence and her really nice conformation.  
 
We try again tomorrow.  I will let you guys know how she did.
 
moonmyyst

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lists at heidi8.com  Sat Sep 18 01:40:27 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:40:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <cifgvl+6qhs@eGroups.com>
References: <cifgvl+6qhs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1095471631.13B9D183@j28.dngr.org>


On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 5:20pm, thekrenz wrote:
> I saw the oddest thing yesterday...It was a bumper sticker that
looked like a standard US political banner.? It read "Republicans for
Voldemort".? It took me by surprise, but I wondered where you would
find something like that...any thoughts from the group?? (I don't
really WANT one of them...just looking for some comments.)

It's on Goats.com but I seem to be having a problem with pulling it up 
on their site...

Heidi
Http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums
ADVERTISEMENT

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From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 15:49:54 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:49:54 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <1095471631.13B9D183@j28.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <cihlf2+6sfg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <lists at h...> 
wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 5:20pm, thekrenz wrote:
> > I saw the oddest thing yesterday...It was a bumper sticker that
> looked like a standard US political banner.?? It read "Republicans 
for
> Voldemort".?? It took me by surprise, but I wondered where you would
> find something like that...any thoughts from the group??? (I don't
> really WANT one of them...just looking for some comments.)

I remember the very real hooro sxpressed in a chatroom when the 
word "Mudblood" was used.  It apparantly had assumed all the 
emotional force of th "N-word".  I think that, analogously, 
a "Republicans for Voldemort bumper sticker is a clever but cruel  
item, much as a "Republicans for Hitler" would be.

I believe in free speech.  We Americans have indulged in political 
vituperation since the time of Hamilton and Jefferson.  I think that 
vile attacks will rebound back on the perpetrators, in a backlash of 
the inherently fair American citizen.  I do believe, however, that 
the maker of this sticker is not merely being clever.  You might just 
as well have a bumpersticker, "Percy flip flops too-- vote Kerry" 
or "They said Pettigrew was a hero too-- vote Kerry".  Do these not 
raise sronger feelings in you, the HP fan, than you would otherwise 
expect?

Haggridd 




From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 16:25:14 2004
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:25:14 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <cihlf2+6sfg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cihnha+k6a3@eGroups.com>

<<<SNIP MY ORIGINAL POST>>>

> I remember the very real hooro sxpressed in a chatroom when the 
> word "Mudblood" was used.  It apparantly had assumed all the 
> emotional force of th "N-word".  I think that, analogously, 
> a "Republicans for Voldemort bumper sticker is a clever but cruel  
> item, much as a "Republicans for Hitler" would be.
> 
> I believe in free speech.  We Americans have indulged in political 
> vituperation since the time of Hamilton and Jefferson.  I think 
that 
> vile attacks will rebound back on the perpetrators, in a backlash 
of 
> the inherently fair American citizen.  I do believe, however, that 
> the maker of this sticker is not merely being clever.  You might 
just 
> as well have a bumpersticker, "Percy flip flops too-- vote Kerry" 
> or "They said Pettigrew was a hero too-- vote Kerry".  Do these not 
> raise sronger feelings in you, the HP fan, than you would otherwise 
> expect?
> 
> Haggridd

Yes, Haggridd, it does "raise stronger feelings...than you 
would..expect".  I was a taken aback and had to read it several time 
to make sure I read it correctly.  I have to admit, I really don't 
like the idea of HP being used in such a twisted manner.  Please 
don't misinterpret that as me being against free speech.  I totally 
support that concept.  Honestly, the bumper sticker made me 
uncomfortable...weird, huh?




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Sat Sep 18 17:41:42 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:41:42 EDT
Subject: "Thekrenz" - bumper sticker
Message-ID: <ee.18fcc6f.2e7dcd56@aol.com>

"I saw the oddest thing yesterday...It was a bumper sticker that 
looked like a standard US political banner.  It read "Republicans for 
Voldemort".  It took me by surprise, but I wondered where you would 
find something like that...any thoughts from the group?  (I don't 
really WANT one of them...just looking for some comments.)
:D"

 If anyone knows where to get one, I want one!!!!!!!!!!!!  That is hilarious! 
 You know, come to think of it, there is a site called www.stampandshout.com 
... they may have it.  Think I'll check it out.

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Sat Sep 18 17:43:30 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:43:30 EDT
Subject: bumper sticker
Message-ID: <e8.18fbbd5.2e7dcdc2@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/18/2004 2:14:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> It's on Goats.com but I seem to be having a problem with pulling it up 
> on their site...
> 
> Heidi
> 

Thanks Heidi!  LOL

"Luna"
-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From maidne at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 18:32:20 2004
From: maidne at yahoo.com (maidne)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:32:20 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please!
Message-ID: <cihuvk+b5h3@eGroups.com>

I've looked on that darn bulletin board a dozen times, and there are 
no toothpicks there!  I've even emptied my cache and deleted my 
cookies so I'm starting completely from scratch, but still no 
toothpicks!  What is going on?
Thanks,
Susan




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 18:37:24 2004
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <cihlf2+6sfg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040918183724.93965.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com>

Haggrid wrote:
I remember the very real hooro sxpressed in a chatroom when the 
word "Mudblood" was used.  It apparantly had assumed all the 
emotional force of th "N-word".  I think that, analogously, 
a "Republicans for Voldemort bumper sticker is a clever but cruel item, much as a "Republicans for Hitler" would be.


Kemper writes:  It is nothing like "Republicans for Hitler."  Voldemorte is character in fantasy fiction.  Voldemorte did not saction the destruction of Jewish Europe.  To say it is the same is to say "Holocaust never happened" or "Aushwitz was a spa."  That is cruel.  


Haggrid continues:  I believe in free speech.  We Americans have indulged in political vituperation since the time of Hamilton and Jefferson.  I think that vile attacks will rebound back on the perpetrators, in a backlash of the inherently fair American citizen.  I do believe, however, that the maker of this sticker is not merely being clever.  You might just as well have a bumpersticker, "Percy flip flops too-- vote Kerry" or "They said Pettigrew was a hero too-- vote Kerry".  Do these not raise sronger feelings in you, the HP fan, than you would otherwise 
expect?

Kemper writes:
"Republicans for Voldemort" is funny.  And so is your "Pettigrew flipped-flopped."  Seriously, you should put that on a bumpersticker or t-shirt.  I like "Dumbledore votes Green" (not particularly funny, but...) as well as "Quiditch moms for Democrats."  
 
 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 18:48:36 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:48:36 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs)
In-Reply-To: <cie3ki+7unp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cihvu4+cd97@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "lavaluvn" <lavaluvn at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> > > Someone posted a link the other day for a site where you could
> > shop for English teas, jammie dodgers, etc. ...
> > > 
> > > If you'd send the link again, I'd be ever grateful.  
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > 
> > > "Luna"
 

> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > Not sure what that link might have been, but if you are in the US
> > or Canada, here is a link to an old post about places to by 
> > British  foods.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14733
> > 

> Andromeda:
> 
> ALong these lines, I ... fell in love with "Hobnobs" (an oat-y 
> biscuit/cookie), particularly the chocolate-covered kind.  Are they 
> still around?  For some reason we don't get them over here on the 
> other side of the planet.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andromeda

bboyminn:

I just bought a tin yesterday at a local British Pub (keep in mind
that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (?3.34). I know, an
astronomical price, but I was curious. (Actually, I was hoping for
Jaffa Cake, but no luck)

I could take or leave the chocolate coating, but I love the oat
biscuit part. (The Tin expired on 4/12/04, but they were still good.)

Later that day, I found out I could get a gormet copy of Hob Nobs
(that is, not the real brand, but still good quality) for $2.50 at the
local grocery story. Such is life.

On another note; just curious, do they have Nabisco or Keebler Vanilla
Wafers (which are small biscuits, not a wafer) in the UK. Does anybody
there eat them? Does anybody there like them? Enquiring minds want to
know.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 19:08:13 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:08:13 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs)
In-Reply-To: <cihvu4+cd97@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cii12t+mqp3@eGroups.com>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/24389

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
wrote:
>>Big Snip<<

> bboyminn:
> 
> I just bought a tin yesterday (Hob Nobs) at a local British Pub 
(keep in mind
> that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (?3.34). I know, an
> astronomical price, but I was curious. (Actually, I was hoping for
> Jaffa Cake, but no luck)
> 
> I could take or leave the chocolate coating, but I love the oat
> biscuit part. (The Tin expired on 4/12/04, but they were still 
good.)
> 
> Later that day, I found out I could get a gormet copy of Hob Nobs
> (that is, not the real brand, but still good quality) for $2.50 at 
the local grocery story. Such is life.
> 
> On another note; just curious, do they have Nabisco or Keebler 
Vanilla Wafers (which are small biscuits, not a wafer) in the UK. 
Does anybody there eat them? Does anybody there like them? Enquiring 
minds want to know.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)

*****\(@@)/*****

Yummie! Something else for me to try! I know the guy at the British 
Specialty store has the Hob Nobs so on my next trip I will look for 
them. I stopped by Friday and got some more Jaffa cakes - the first 
ones were McVities in a tube and he was out of those so I got the 
Jacob's. He said he liked them better. Also I picked up a package of 
Ashbourne Hazelnut All Butter Biscuits to try. I will probably munch 
on those during chat tomorrow....

I thought the "cake" part of the Jaffa cakes looked more like the 
Nabisco Vanilla wafer with the dollop of orangy jelly on what looks 
like the bottom of the cookie which is then coated in chocolate. The 
cookie part was a bit softer (but not exactly cakelike in 
consistancy) than the vanilla wafers which tend to be crisp. As I am 
pretty open in what I will eat, I must say I was suprised at how 
good this was! A great combination of flavors. One lady at work 
didn't care for them when I gave her one. The other one just loved 
them, so I guess they are an acquired taste. Other than figuring out 
how to make the jelly part, I would think these could be very easy 
to make at home.

The specialty store had some meat and potato pasties that I am going 
to try next also... When Book 6 comes out I plan to make up 
a "lunchbox" of British stuff from that place to eat while I am 
reading!

Dudemom_2000 (who is looking longingly at her box of Jaffa cakes)

*****\(@@)/*****






From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 19:27:58 2004
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:27:58 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040918183724.93965.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cii27u+7eu0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor 
<kempermentor at y...> wrote:
> Haggrid wrote:
> I remember the very real hooro sxpressed in a chatroom when the 
> word "Mudblood" was used.  It apparantly had assumed all the 
> emotional force of th "N-word".  I think that, analogously, 
> a "Republicans for Voldemort bumper sticker is a clever but cruel 
item, much as a "Republicans for Hitler" would be.
> 
> 
> Kemper writes:  It is nothing like "Republicans for Hitler."  
Voldemorte is character in fantasy fiction.  Voldemorte did not 
saction the destruction of Jewish Europe.  To say it is the same is 
to say "Holocaust never happened" or "Aushwitz was a spa."  That is 
cruel.  
> 
> 
> Haggrid continues:  I believe in free speech.  We Americans have 
indulged in political vituperation since the time of Hamilton and 
Jefferson.  I think that vile attacks will rebound back on the 
perpetrators, in a backlash of the inherently fair American citizen.  
I do believe, however, that the maker of this sticker is not merely 
being clever.  You might just as well have a bumpersticker, "Percy 
flip flops too-- vote Kerry" or "They said Pettigrew was a hero too-- 
vote Kerry".  Do these not raise sronger feelings in you, the HP fan, 
than you would otherwise 
> expect?
> 
> Kemper writes:
> "Republicans for Voldemort" is funny.  And so is your "Pettigrew 
flipped-flopped."  Seriously, you should put that on a bumpersticker 
or t-shirt.  I like "Dumbledore votes Green" (not particularly funny, 
but...) as well as "Quiditch moms for Democrats."  
>   > 
>

 		
"Quiditch moms for Democrats" Now that is funny!! I would gladly slap 
one of those on my car.  Something about supporting Voldemort in any 
fashion is just to scary for me!  :D




From gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx  Sat Sep 18 19:36:26 2004
From: gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx (Gabriela)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:36:26 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs)
In-Reply-To: <cihvu4+cd97@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cii2nq+klte@eGroups.com>


 
> bboyminn:
> 
> I could take or leave the chocolate coating, but I love the oat
> biscuit part. (The Tin expired on 4/12/04, but they were still 
good.)
> 

Hi Steve,

 In Mexico that expiring date would be the 4th of December; I 
remember a boss I had some years ago told me he wrote dates that 
way: day/month/year, he is from Germany. I don't know if this is the 
same for other countries in Europe, I'm curious. Maybe the biscuits 
you ate were not past the expiration date at all.  :)

Gabriela




From isilvalacirca at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 20:15:15 2004
From: isilvalacirca at yahoo.com (Lanthiriel S)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOCEMBDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20040918201515.48915.qmail@web53501.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "(Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)"
<n2fgc at arrl.net> wrote:

> Where two protagonists merge...didn't the movie
> "Scanners" do that, sorta?

It reminds me of "The Dark Crystal". 

Sara


		
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From isilvalacirca at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 20:26:50 2004
From: isilvalacirca at yahoo.com (Lanthiriel S)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help, please.
In-Reply-To: <20040918201515.48915.qmail@web53501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040918202650.36030.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Lanthiriel S <isilvalacirca at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Where two protagonists merge...didn't the movie
> > "Scanners" do that, sorta?
> 
> It reminds me of "The Dark Crystal". 
> 
> Sara

Oops, just saw that someone else made this same
comment. Forgive me. But this is an interesting
possibility. I do believe that there is still some
chance for "Voldemort" and "Tom" to be separated in
the end, destroying the former and bringing some kind
of peace (through death, I would guess) to the latter.
This would explain why Dumbledore called Voldemort Tom
during their fight in OotP - he recognizes that they
are actually two different entities that must be
sundered eventually. 

How this would all work - and how it might affect
Harry - is still beyond me, though.

Sara 


		
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 21:20:17 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:20:17 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040918183724.93965.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cii8qh+gul9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor 
<kempermentor at y...> wrote:
>> Kemper writes: It is nothing like "Republicans for Hitler."
Voldemorte is character in fantasy fiction. Voldemorte did not
saction the destruction of Jewish Europe. To say it is the same is
to say "Holocaust never happened" or "Aushwitz was a spa." That is
cruel.
>

I must disagree.  The analogy is precise.  It is the fact that 
Voldemort is a fantasy fiction character and yet the bumpersticker 
has an effect that is the point of this thread. Voldemort did and 
does sanction the destruction of Muggle-Blood Wizarding World.  I 
never said that it was the same as saying the Holocaust never 
happened, nor do I personally say that.  The Holocaust was the 
absolute worst, the most evil thing done by humans.  Unfortunately, 
there are far too many competitors for this title, but the Holocaust 
wins hands down.  Please do not put words in my mouth.

> 
> Kemper writes:
> "Republicans for Voldemort" is funny.  And so is your "Pettigrew 
flipped-flopped."  Seriously, you should put that on a bumpersticker 
or t-shirt.  I like "Dumbledore votes Green" (not particularly funny, 
but...) as well as "Quiditch moms for Democrats."  
>  


I do notice that you did not include the "Pettigrew was a hero, too, 
Vote for Kerry" in your last post.  Does this mean that this 
particular sentiment-- in best Umbridge-fashion-- got under your skin?

I think the "Dumbledore votes Green" bumper sticker isn't 
particularly funny because it isn't a cutting remark.  Such is our 
sense of humor.  Besides, everybody knows Dumbledore is a Tory.  :-)

The closest JKR comes to this sort of thing is er campaign by 
Hermione on behalf of the House-Elves, which conjures up image of 
self-congratulatory do-gooders in RL.


Haggridd





From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Sat Sep 18 21:21:31 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (Rynne)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:21:31 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday x2!
Message-ID: <cii8sr+j681@eGroups.com>

Hello, all!  Today we have /two/ birthdays to celebrate, so let's get 
started!

Today's birthday honorees are Niff, who can be owled birthday 
greetings at NiffMarie at cs.com, and Trina, who didn't provide an owl 
address, but wish her a happy birthday anyway!

Since we have two people to party for, let's get started! *starts 
hanging shimmery streamers* And where did those balloons go...ah, 
there they are! *lets the balloons loose*

And of course, no party is ever complete without the cake and ice 
cream, so just wait a minute while I go get them... *pops out, and 
soon pops back in with a large cake and a few quarts of ice cream 
floating behind*  Dig in, everyone!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, NIFF!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, TRINA!

--Rynny the birthday elf  





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 22:36:49 2004
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:36:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <cii8qh+gul9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040918223649.62034.qmail@web41604.mail.yahoo.com>

Haggridd wrote:
I must disagree.  The analogy is precise.  It is the fact that 
Voldemort is a fantasy fiction character and yet the bumpersticker has an effect that is the point of this thread. Voldemort did and does sanction the destruction of Muggle-Blood Wizarding World.  I never said that it was the same as saying the Holocaust never happened, nor do I personally say that.  The Holocaust was the absolute worst, the most evil thing done by humans.  Unfortunately, there are far too many competitors for this title, but the Holocaust wins hands down.  Please do not put words in my mouth.


Kemper writes back:The analogy is wrong because you're equating real-world, life tragedy with imagination. I put no words in your mouth.  I put into context what you were saying.
 
Haggridd wrote some more:
I do notice that you did not include the "Pettigrew was a hero, too, Vote for Kerry" in your last post.  Does this mean that this particular sentiment-- in best Umbridge-fashion-- got under your skin?

Kemper writes back some more:
I didn't include "Pettigrew....Kerry" because it's not particularly funny.  It needs work.  It couldn't get under anyone's skin because it's too dull.  What about "Democrats for Pettigrew" or "Pettigrew lost a finger... where's his purple heart?"  Obviously, Peter is a Brit so wouldn't have earned one, but you get the point.  I'm sure once you work on it some more it will be funny.    I would be interested in reading it, so please keep me posted.  
 
Haggridd wrote as well:
I think the "Dumbledore votes Green" bumper sticker isn't 
particularly funny because it isn't a cutting remark.  Such is our sense of humor.  Besides, everybody knows Dumbledore is a Tory.  :-)

Kemper laughs:
That's funny!
 
 
Haggridd finished:
The closest JKR comes to this sort of thing is er campaign by 
Hermione on behalf of the House-Elves, which conjures up image of self-congratulatory do-gooders in RL.

Kemper doesn't get it:
I don't know what you're saying here.  Is this like Kathy Lee's clothing line was made in sweatshops by House Elves?  Please clarify.



		
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

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From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 18 23:57:10 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:57:10 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040918223649.62034.qmail@web41604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ciii0m+rkgi@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor 
<kempermentor at y...> wrote:
> Haggridd wrote:
> I must disagree.  The analogy is precise.  It is the fact that 
> Voldemort is a fantasy fiction character and yet the bumpersticker 
has an effect that is the point of this thread. Voldemort did and 
does sanction the destruction of Muggle-Blood Wizarding World.  I 
never said that it was the same as saying the Holocaust never 
happened, nor do I personally say that.  The Holocaust was the 
absolute worst, the most evil thing done by humans.  Unfortunately, 
there are far too many competitors for this title, but the Holocaust 
wins hands down.  Please do not put words in my mouth.
> 
> 
> Kemper writes back:The analogy is wrong because you're equating 
real-world, life tragedy with imagination. I put no words in your 
mouth.  I put into context what you were saying.

I'm afraid that on this we must continue to agree to disagree.
>  
> Haggridd wrote some more:
> I do notice that you did not include the "Pettigrew was a hero, 
too, Vote for Kerry" in your last post.  Does this mean that this 
particular sentiment-- in best Umbridge-fashion-- got under your skin?
> 
> Kemper writes back some more:
> I didn't include "Pettigrew....Kerry" because it's not particularly 
funny.  It needs work.  It couldn't get under anyone's skin because 
it's too dull.  What about "Democrats for Pettigrew" or "Pettigrew 
lost a finger... where's his purple heart?"  Obviously, Peter is a 
Brit so wouldn't have earned one, but you get the point.  I'm sure 
once you work on it some more it will be funny.    I would be 
interested in reading it, so please keep me posted.  
>  

I like the purple heart bumpersticker; that is good.  If I come up 
witha good one I reply.

 
>  
> Haggridd finished:
> The closest JKR comes to this sort of thing is er campaign by 
> Hermione on behalf of the House-Elves, which conjures up image of 
self-congratulatory do-gooders in RL.
> 
> Kemper doesn't get it:
> I don't know what you're saying here.  Is this like Kathy Lee's 
clothing line was made in sweatshops by House Elves?  Please clarify.
> 
>
No, when I was reading the episodes in GoF, it reminded me of those 
condescending busybodies who keep trying to "help" those less 
fortunate creatures than themselves, while the creatures in question 
feel that they don't particularly need any help. Kathie Lee was 
actively doing wrong.  The sin here is that of pride, like that of 
the Pharisee praying in the Temple how good he was and all the good 
he had done.  I do not accuse hermione pf this, but these people see 
thoe objcts of their campigns more as causes than as real persons.  
Does this help to clarify things at all?

Haggridd
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 19 02:55:29 2004
From: moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com (K G)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sugar Quill "Honey"
In-Reply-To: <20040918012652.37115.qmail@web53505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040919025529.3115.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com>



K G <moonmyyst13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
I just wanted to do a little brag.  My new baby "Southcrest Sugar Quill" also known as "Honey" (after Honeydukes) showed in her first match tonight.  She took best puppy bitch in her breed (sheltie).  She is 16 weeks old.  She is a pistol!!  She did really well.  I had a judge and a couple of professional handlers talking about her ring presence and her really nice conformation.  

We try again tomorrow.  I will let you guys know how she did.

moonmyyst



 

Well, Honey showed again tonight and she won best bitch, best sheltie and took 4th in Herding Group (or Pastoral Group depending on which side of the mud hole you live on!!).  We had several judges go out of their way to tell us what a nice pup she is and how they cannot wait for her to show in regular class and not just in b-match.  she will be able to when she turns 6 months old. (another one of my shelties took 2nd in her class and a third took 2nd in rally obedience)

thanks for letting me brag!!

moonmyyst


		
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From sinfulsnape at cox.net  Sun Sep 19 02:01:56 2004
From: sinfulsnape at cox.net (SinfulSnape)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:01:56 -0400
Subject: Question about JKR Website
Message-ID: <000a01c49dec$a4d60a70$6401a8c0@nhcd>

Can anyone tell me how to get into this rubbish room?

Rhonda Gelinas
VW Leads Manager, Burgundy Team
National Health Care Discount
1-877-480-8538 *EST 
1-401-737-7481 *EST
9:00am - 9:00pm M-F (*EST)
11:00am - 7:00pm Sat-Sun (*EST)
Please note new email address:
r.gelinas at cox.net
Yahoo IM screenname: rhonda_gelinas
 
Genia Hahn
Assistant VW Manager, Burgundy Team 
(573) 796-0284 *CST (Must use access code)
9:00am - 8:00pm M-F (*CST)
9:00am - 5:00pm Sat-Sun (*CST)
 
Burgundy Team Chats
Monday @ 9PM EST & Wednesday @ 1PM EST
(800)576-0439, access code 9299352



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





From chnc1024 at AOL.COM  Sun Sep 19 03:57:14 2004
From: chnc1024 at AOL.COM (chnc1024 at AOL.COM)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:57:14 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question about JKR Website
Message-ID: <9a.150d0ed0.2e7e5d9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/18/2004 8:42:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
sinfulsnape at cox.net writes:
Can anyone tell me how to get into this rubbish room


All you have to do is click on the gum wrapper right next to the tea cup, and 
it will take you there.  
Chancie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sad1199 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 19 05:21:50 2004
From: sad1199 at yahoo.com (sad1199)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:21:50 -0000
Subject: Sugar Quill "Honey"
In-Reply-To: <20040919025529.3115.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cij51e+jttj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> K G <moonmyyst13 at y...> wrote:
> I just wanted to do a little brag.  My new baby "Southcrest Sugar 
Quill" also known as "Honey" (after Honeydukes) showed in her first 
match tonight.  She took best puppy bitch in her breed (sheltie).  
She is 16 weeks old.  She is a pistol!!  She did really well.  I had 
a judge and a couple of professional handlers talking about her ring 
presence and her really nice conformation.  
> 
> We try again tomorrow.  I will let you guys know how she did.
> 
> moonmyyst
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Well, Honey showed again tonight and she won best bitch, best 
sheltie and took 4th in Herding Group (or Pastoral Group depending 
on which side of the mud hole you live on!!).  We had several judges 
go out of their way to tell us what a nice pup she is and how they 
cannot wait for her to show in regular class and not just in b-
match.  she will be able to when she turns 6 months old. (another 
one of my shelties took 2nd in her class and a third took 2nd in 
rally obedience)
> 
> thanks for letting me brag!!
> 
> moonmyyst


Congratulations! That is wonderful! My dad raised and trained 
Weimaraners for Field Trialing for 27 years and we went to a few 
shows with friends. A good dog in their sport is very important to 
each breed. Good luck in the future with all of your dogs.

...happy, caring, loving...   sad1199
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From plungy116 at aol.com  Sun Sep 19 13:52:56 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:52:56 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs)
In-Reply-To: <cii12t+mqp3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cik2vo+2n21@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dudemom_2000" 
<dudemom_2000 at y...> wrote:
> (The Tin expired on 4/12/04, but they were still 
> good.)

In Britain this would be 4th December, so if they were from a British 
shop they probably weren't out of date at all.
Other British biscuits (not cookies) you might like are the 
aforementioned hobnobs (not one of my favourites), jammie dodgers 
which are like shortbread with a blob of jam sandwiching 2 biscuits 
together (some varietes also have a bit of fondant cream with the 
jam).
Others are digestives and (much more yummy) chocolate digestives 
(milk or dark chocolate), ginger nuts (good for dunking in coffee), 
rich tea (good for dunking if you're quick, otherwise they land in 
your brew with a splosh), custard creams, bourbons (no alcohol just 
chocolate biscuit sandwiched with chocolate fondant), fig rolls (good 
for the bowels!)I could go on...
Sarah xx
British born and bred




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 19 15:02:25 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 19 Sep 2004 15:02:25 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1095606145.14.54547.m24@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, September 19, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 

Hope to see you there! 

 





From ryokas at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 19 21:29:25 2004
From: ryokas at hotmail.com (kizor0)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:29:25 -0000
Subject: The Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes discussion strikes back!
Message-ID: <ciktnl+vkvs@eGroups.com>

Hi! You'll remember my recent thread, asking for ideas for joke items
in the Wizarding World? Well, to help us better store, add and find
them, I made this:

http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=6746&doc=Potter%20weirdness

A bit basic still, but functional. So:

- What do you think of the concept? Is it workable? As you can gather
from the wording of the page, I'm hoping that this'll accumulate quite
a bit of stuff. Not knowing whether this'll fly or crash, I'm pretty
nervous. If it does fly, we could add a link to it somewhere on HPFGU
or such..

- Any suggestions on what the page needs or could use?

- If you suggested any in the mentioned previous thread, can it be
added to the new page?

Thanks.

- Kizor




From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Sun Sep 19 21:47:46 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (Rynne)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:47:46 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday x2
Message-ID: <cikuq2+2eq9@eGroups.com>

Today we have two more birthdays!  And one of them belongs to one of 
our favorite witches, Hermione Granger!  Hermione turns 24 today (we 
think?  Possibly 25), so everyone wish her a happy birthday!

And then there's our listee honoree, Suzanne!  Reach Suzanne for 
birthday wishes at suzchiles at yahoo.com; I'm sure she'd love to have 
them!

And now for the decorations...floating candles, anyone? *starts 
flying candles up to float above everyone's heads*  And of course, 
we mustn't forget the balloons and streamers... *breaks out the 
balloons and streamers and flies them all over*

And now the best part...the cake!  We've got two today for you to 
enjoy, so... *pops out, and quickly pops back in with two cakes 
floating behind* Dig in!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SUZANNE!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HERMIONE!

--Rynny the birthday elf  




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Sep 20 00:38:21 2004
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:38:21 -0000
Subject: DEEP WIZARDRY (spoiler)
In-Reply-To: <ciaupv+lklf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cil8pt+ckp7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" <spin01 at a...>
wrote:
<< Not sure if this is what your looking for but I read the "So you
want to be a wizard" books a while ago.  The second book Deep Wizardry
has a scene sort of like that at the end.  The wizard had to turn into 
whales and there had to be a sacrifice that would be accepted is that 
the one your talking about?  the evil one was a shark.  that is the 
only book coming to mind for me.  It is by Diane Duane.  >>

The shark was NOT evil, 'merely' a deadly predator. Predators are
simply natural -- us humans are predators, does eating meat make us
evil? Unlike me, who eats from agriculture, wild animal predators
serve to pick off the sick or weak members of other species, and are
therefore the force that caused those species to become strong and
fast or well-armored or well-camouflaged or whatever that species's
defense mechanism is.

In this spirit, I found the 'happy ending' of that book very
irritating and not very happy.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e

Someone had to die, and the girl protagonist had gotten herself into
the situation where it would be her. Suddenly and surprisingly, her
life was saved when the Shark voluntarily died instead. I found it
tragic that a twenty million year old force of nature died and is gone
from our world -- I found it absurd that all those non-human marine
beings, such as the whales, would find the life of one human child so
much more valuable than the life of one of their fellow marine beings,
a very important one at that.




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Sep 20 00:40:59 2004
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:40:59 -0000
Subject: JKRowling Website questions
In-Reply-To: <cifd34+pjmo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cil8ur+108or@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "amdorn" <abbid at c...> wrote:

> 2.  When peeves went by the main desk page and changed the marble he 
> also did something to the watch.  It added 11 more hands for a total 
> of 12 hands and also what looks like the phases of the moon instead 
> of numbers.  Does anyone think this has any significance?

To me, it is Dumbledore's watch, and www.potterskeys.com agrees:
http://www.potterskeys.com/faq-6-JKRowling.com%3A+The+Watch.html#27




From cquinn at mn.rr.com  Mon Sep 20 14:29:12 2004
From: cquinn at mn.rr.com (twobeaglesgirl)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:29:12 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <20040917151811.95252.qmail@web61310.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cimpfo+ut3q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Amy Miller <ziggyfan32 at y...> 
wrote:
> twobeaglesgirl <cquinn at m...> wrote:
> > You are missing 1) the drawing of Nearly Headless Nick and, 2) 
the 
> > drawing of Peeves.
> > Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It is.....
> 
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
> 
> 
> B
> E
> L
> O
> W
> >
> > 733837
> > that will get the drawing of Peeves
> >
> > Then you have to collect the three new items throughout the 
> > website.  Hint-break the pen in the new Rubbish room and the 
> > ink will leak and reveal the items.
> 
> 
> What are some of the other numbers that you can dial on the cell 
phone?
> Please help me out here!
> 
> Amy  Ziggyfan


The only other one I am aware of is the MAGIC number (62442).

--2beagles





From barbfulton at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 15:54:18 2004
From: barbfulton at yahoo.com (Barb Fulton)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:54:18 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs)
In-Reply-To: <cihvu4+cd97@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cimufa+jkhs@eGroups.com>

I've been lurking for a few weeks, but this is my first post-hope 
it's ok! (waves to everyone)
 
bboyminn wrote: 
I just bought a tin yesterday at a local British Pub (keep in mind
that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (?3.34). I know, an
astronomical price, but I was curious. (Actually, I was hoping for
Jaffa Cake, but no luck)

Barb now:
Steve, could you tell me where you got the Hobnobs? (I'm in MN, too-
in the Cities.) They sound yummy! Also, what are the knock-off ones 
called that you found at the grocery store? Is this too off-topic 
for the OT group? If so, feel free to email me off-list. Thanks!

-Barb (who hasn't come up with a cute name yet, but wanted to use 
parentheses-you know, to try to fit in)





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 17:47:31 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:47:31 -0000
Subject: Fantastic Hob Nobs in Minnesota and Where to Find Them
In-Reply-To: <cimufa+jkhs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cin53j+i3sl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Barb Fulton"
<barbfulton at y...> wrote:
> I've been lurking for a few weeks, but this is my first post-hope 
> it's ok! (waves to everyone)
>  
> bboyminn wrote: 
> I just bought a tin yesterday at a local British Pub (keep in mind
> that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (?3.34). I know, an
> astronomical price, but I was curious. (Actually, I was hoping for
> Jaffa Cake, but no luck)


> Barb now:
> Steve, could you tell me where you got the Hobnobs? (I'm in MN, too-
> in the Cities.) They sound yummy! Also, what are the knock-off ones 
> called that you found at the grocery store? Is this too off-topic 
> for the OT group? If so, feel free to email me off-list. Thanks!
> 
> -Barb (who hasn't come up with a cute name yet, but wanted to use 
> parentheses-you know, to try to fit in)


bboyminn:

I should probably reply off-line, but just on the off chance that
there are other people who might be from Minnesota, I'll reply here.

At the corner of 9th and south Nicollet (on the Mall) diagonally
across the street from the WCCO-TV building and right across the
street from Orchestra Hall is "Brit's Pub". Just inside the front door
they have a tiny glass front cabinet by the cash register with an
assortment of candy bars and other food. I didn't recognise any of the
candy bars.

As a side note, one interesting aspect of Brit's Pub, is that they
have a rooftop garden with a grass bowling green.

I found Hob Nobs (two words; brand name is one word) in the Lagoon St.
Rainbow Foods, (Uptown area just east of Lake and Hennepin). They also
had 'PIMS" which appear to be a very close knock off of Jaffa Cake
(soft shortbread biscuit, orange filling, chocolate covering). These
were in the cookie/cracker aisle with the specialty and imported
cookies. (Look for Walker brand and the others will be nearby.)

In addition, in my wanderings, I found 'Duchy Originals' Ginger, and
Lemon Biscuits at the Wedge Coop just south of Franklin on Lyndale.
They were out of Ginger, but I read a review that said the Lemon were
very good. I think I'll try them both. Unfortunately, at the moment
I'm trying to drop 10 pounds, so cookie fantasies will have to wait a
while.

To anyone not in or from Minnesota, that was probably immensely
boring. Sorry.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)





From garybec at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 18:13:07 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:13:07 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <cimpfo+ut3q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cin6jj+m6if@eGroups.com>

.
> > > Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It 
is.....
> > 
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> > 
> > 
> > B
> > E
> > L
> > O
> > W
> > >
> > > 733837
> > > that will get the drawing of Peeves


By the way, anyone know the significance of the new number?

Just curious.
Becki




From garybec at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 18:13:37 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:13:37 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please!
In-Reply-To: <cihuvk+b5h3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cin6kh+9k39@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "maidne" <maidne at y...> wrote:
> I've looked on that darn bulletin board a dozen times, and there 
are 
> no toothpicks there!  I've even emptied my cache and deleted my 
> cookies so I'm starting completely from scratch, but still no 
> toothpicks!  What is going on?
> Thanks,
> Susan

Did you try potterskeys.com yet?  That might be of help.  Also, do 
you have the other things yet?  When I was in the rubbish room, I 
clicked the eggs right away and forgot I did, started finding other 
clues, came back to find the eggs, but no eggs.  And when I  found 
everything else it just the reward just appeared.  Perhaps you 
already have them?  If not, try the potterskeys.com

Good Luck
Becki




From ziggyfan32 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 17:39:15 2004
From: ziggyfan32 at yahoo.com (Amy Miller)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <cimpfo+ut3q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040920173915.71706.qmail@web61309.mail.yahoo.com>



> What are some of the other numbers that you can dial on the cell 
phone?
> Please help me out here!
> 
> Amy  Ziggyfan


The only other one I am aware of is the MAGIC number (62442).

--2beagles

 

Thank you soooo very much! If anyone else knows of any more let me know...please!

 

Amy  Ziggyfan 



________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 18:49:54 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:49:54 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
References: <cin6jj+m6if@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007401c49f42$a8f06040$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>


Becki asked:

By the way, anyone know the significance of the new number?

Just curious.

Jenny says:
It spells 'Peeves'. :-))



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Mon Sep 20 20:36:33 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:36:33 EDT
Subject: fondants and digestives??
Message-ID: <1f0.2b5c0f1f.2e809951@aol.com>

"Others are digestives and (much more yummy) chocolate digestives 
(milk or dark chocolate), ginger nuts (good for dunking in coffee), 
rich tea (good for dunking if you're quick, otherwise they land in 
your brew with a splosh), custard creams, bourbons (no alcohol just 
chocolate biscuit sandwiched with chocolate fondant), fig rolls (good 
for the bowels!)I could go on...
Sarah xx
British born and bred"


Sarah,
Do tell ... what is a "fondant" and a "digestive?"   Inquiring American minds 
want to know.  :)

"Luna"


-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 20 21:02:51 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:02:51 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <cin6jj+m6if@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cinghr+o02h@eGroups.com>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/24412

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "garybec" <garybec at y...> 
wrote:
> > > > Did you dial the new phone number on the cell phone?  It 
> is.....
> > > 
> > > S
> > > P
> > > O
> > > I
> > > L
> > > E
> > > R
> > > 
> > > 
> > > B
> > > E
> > > L
> > > O
> > > W
> > > >
> > > > 733837
> > > > that will get the drawing of Peeves
> 
> 
> By the way, anyone know the significance of the new number?
> 
> Just curious.
> Becki

*****\(@@)/*****

BIG HINT

Look at your phone and see what letters the numbers spell they are:
>>
S
>
P
>
O
>
I
>
L
>
E
>
R
>

PEEVES!

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From maidne at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 21 00:23:26 2004
From: maidne at yahoo.com (maidne)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:23:26 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please!
In-Reply-To: <cin6kh+9k39@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cins9u+mkp8@eGroups.com>

I did look there, thanks.  I saw where they're supposed to be, but I 
don't have any.  :C  I found the eggs and the bubbles, but no 
toothpicks.  
Thanks,
Susan

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "garybec" <garybec at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "maidne" <maidne at y...> 
wrote:
> > I've looked on that darn bulletin board a dozen times, and there 
> are 
> > no toothpicks there!  I've even emptied my cache and deleted my 
> > cookies so I'm starting completely from scratch, but still no 
> > toothpicks!  What is going on?
> > Thanks,
> > Susan
> 
> Did you try potterskeys.com yet?  That might be of help.  Also, do 
> you have the other things yet?  When I was in the rubbish room, I 
> clicked the eggs right away and forgot I did, started finding other 
> clues, came back to find the eggs, but no eggs.  And when I  found 
> everything else it just the reward just appeared.  Perhaps you 
> already have them?  If not, try the potterskeys.com
> 
> Good Luck
> Becki




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep 21 01:13:16 2004
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:13:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Fantastic Hob Nobs in Minnesota and Where to
 Find Them
In-Reply-To: <cin53j+i3sl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <KPELJFOAIOMBHOEFLMFOEENJDDAA.n2fgc@optonline.net>

[Steve wrote]
| To anyone not in or from Minnesota, that was probably immensely
| boring. Sorry.

[Lee]:
Not at all.  :-) I'd say that info is probably very helpful to anyone who
might be wanting to visit MN.

Now, if anyone has any NJ information....Please???

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me;    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From redina at silverbloom.net  Tue Sep 21 03:56:46 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:56:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When authors respond to readers RE: Anne Rice Strikes Back
Message-ID: <3398.4.47.27.247.1095739006.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/515245.html

This cracks me up.

I'm almost kinda glad JKR doesn't do in-depth responses to negative
readers.  Yeah, I can get annoyed by her 'c*cktease' method and peculiar
responses to fans' preferences on certain characters, but so far, nothing
that makes me go *facepalm*.

For better or for worse, the Vampire Chronicles introduced me to online
fandom in 1996, though this was on usenet.  I don't remember her being
this wanky back then.

Dina




From shalimar07 at aol.com  Tue Sep 21 11:44:55 2004
From: shalimar07 at aol.com (shalimar07 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:44:55 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JKR site update -- help please!
Message-ID: <8.57fb6708.2e816e37@aol.com>

I had the same problem....When I spotted them it didn't look like 
toothpicks..more like lines under the picture or paper (i forget) on the bulletin board.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From plungy116 at aol.com  Tue Sep 21 13:34:10 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:34:10 -0000
Subject: fondants and digestives??
In-Reply-To: <1f0.2b5c0f1f.2e809951@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cipaki+ktho@eGroups.com>


> 
> Sarah,
> Do tell ... what is a "fondant" and a "digestive?"   Inquiring 
American minds 
> want to know.

erm...well fondant I suppose in a bourbon context is like sickly 
sweet chocolate cream, like in oreos (I think its oreos I'm thinking 
of).  a digestive biscuit is like an oaty crisp biscuit, not as well 
defined oaty as HobNobs, but more wholemealy.  Its difficult to 
describe - they're just such an ordinary part of life here, everyday 
kind of biscuits - the chocolate digestives are a bit more special.
Jaffa cake biscuit isn't a biscuit by the way its more like a sponge -
 they aren't supposed to crunch.
Anything else I can give a very poor explanation for?
Sarah xx




From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 21 16:06:09 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:06:09 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please!
In-Reply-To: <cin6kh+9k39@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cipjhh+hhac@eGroups.com>

Where is the rubbish room?
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "garybec" <garybec at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "maidne" <maidne at y...> 
wrote:
> > I've looked on that darn bulletin board a dozen times, and there 
> are 
> > no toothpicks there!  I've even emptied my cache and deleted my 
> > cookies so I'm starting completely from scratch, but still no 
> > toothpicks!  What is going on?
> > Thanks,
> > Susan
> 
> Did you try potterskeys.com yet?  That might be of help.  Also, do 
> you have the other things yet?  When I was in the rubbish room, I 
> clicked the eggs right away and forgot I did, started finding other 
> clues, came back to find the eggs, but no eggs.  And when I  found 
> everything else it just the reward just appeared.  Perhaps you 
> already have them?  If not, try the potterskeys.com
> 
> Good Luck
> Becki





From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 21 16:44:19 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:44:19 -0000
Subject: bubbles
Message-ID: <ciplp3+m0us@eGroups.com>

Where do you find the bubbles?

"animalspussycat" 




From shalimar07 at aol.com  Tue Sep 21 17:48:21 2004
From: shalimar07 at aol.com (shalimar07 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:48:21 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] bubbles
Message-ID: <7C62806E.1BF95FF7.0CA92480@aol.com>

On the top shelf of the books....behind the empty medal box.



From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 21 21:08:35 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:08:35 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please! Note spoiler at end!
In-Reply-To: <cipjhh+hhac@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciq58j+u1go@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "animalspussycat" 
<animalspussycat at y...> wrote:
> Where is the rubbish room?
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "garybec" <garybec at y...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "maidne" <maidne at y...> 
> wrote:
> > > I've looked on that darn bulletin board a dozen times, and 
there are no toothpicks there!  I've even emptied my cache and 
deleted my cookies so I'm starting completely from scratch, but 
still no toothpicks!  What is going on?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Susan
> > 
> > Did you try potterskeys.com yet?  That might be of help.  Also, 
do you have the other things yet?  When I was in the rubbish room, I 
> > clicked the eggs right away and forgot I did, started finding 
other clues, came back to find the eggs, but no eggs.  And when I  
found everything else it just the reward just appeared.  Perhaps you 
> > already have them?  If not, try the potterskeys.com
> > 
> > Good Luck
> > Becki

*****\(@@)/*****

Here is a big clue to the "toothpicks" - Maybe they aren't 
toothpickbs but dog *coughbigcluecough* hair. Now look on the 
bulletin board.

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****




From jbenne27 at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Sep 21 22:23:59 2004
From: jbenne27 at tampabay.rr.com (jbenne27 at tampabay.rr.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:23:59 -0400
Subject: bubbles
In-Reply-To: <7C62806E.1BF95FF7.0CA92480@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003001c4a029$b13ffac0$6501a8c0@JAMES>

From: shalimar07 at aol.com  
> On the top shelf of the books....behind the empty medal box.


I found them but what do they do?

jbenne27




From shalimar07 at aol.com  Wed Sep 22 01:56:26 2004
From: shalimar07 at aol.com (shalimar07 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:56:26 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE:  bubbles
Message-ID: <7d.5912338b.2e8235ca@aol.com>

When you have found all of the new items you get a new item to put in your 
scrapebook.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Botbyl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 21 23:37:03 2004
From: Botbyl at hotmail.com (Kara Botbyl)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:37:03 +0000
Subject: bubbles
Message-ID: <BAY13-F18pdZoGFM1j8000554c0@hotmail.com>

jbenne27:
>I found them but what do they do?


You have to go in the rubbish bin when and

SPOILER

Break open the pen, find all the clues (one is the bubbles) and then you get 
a prize!


"Kara"




From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 03:12:35 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:12:35 -0000
Subject: bubbles
In-Reply-To: <003001c4a029$b13ffac0$6501a8c0@JAMES>
Message-ID: <ciqqj3+2hcn@eGroups.com>

jbenne27:
> I found them but what do they do?
 
 
-I got a picture of Nearly Headless Nick, after I got the other stuff.

"animalspussycat"




From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 03:14:03 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:14:03 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please! Note spoiler at end!
In-Reply-To: <ciq58j+u1go@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciqqlr+tjpd@eGroups.com>


> Dudemom_2000:
> Here is a big clue to the "toothpicks" - Maybe they aren't 
> toothpickbs but dog *coughbigcluecough* hair. Now look on the 
> bulletin board.


-I found them all. Thanks to you all!  =)

"animalspussycat" 




From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 03:15:22 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:15:22 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat
In-Reply-To: <1095606145.14.54547.m24@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <ciqqoa+ukjn@eGroups.com>

---when is the next chat?

 In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
> 
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
> 
> Weekly Chat 
> 
> Date: Sunday, September 19, 2004 
> Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 
> 
> Hi everyone! 
> 
> Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
> pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
> Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
> long as people want it to last.
> 
> Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 
> 
> Hope to see you there!





From garybec at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 12:41:05 2004
From: garybec at yahoo.com (garybec)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:41:05 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat
In-Reply-To: <ciqqoa+ukjn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cirrt1+uac6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "animalspussycat" 
<animalspussycat at y...> wrote:
> ---when is the next chat?
> 
>  In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, HPFGU-
OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
> wrote:
> > 
> > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
> > 
> > Weekly Chat 
> > 
> > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2004 
> > Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 
> > 
> > Hi everyone! 
> > 
> > Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
> > pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
> > Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
> > long as people want it to last.
> > 
> > Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 
> > 
> > Hope to see you there!

They are on Sundays at the posted time.  




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 15:49:36 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:49:36 -0000
Subject: When authors respond to readers RE: Anne Rice Strikes Back
In-Reply-To: <3398.4.47.27.247.1095739006.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <cis6ug+7pht@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dina Lerret" <redina at s...> 
wrote:
> 
> I'm almost kinda glad JKR doesn't do in-depth responses to negative
> readers.  Yeah, I can get annoyed by her 'c*cktease' method and 
peculiar
> responses to fans' preferences on certain characters, but so far, 
nothing
> that makes me go *facepalm*.

> 
> Dina

Kudos to you, Dina, for the courage to use a perfectly appropriate 
word that does indeed describe JKR's method with some fans, thereby 
braving the wrath of the PC police.  I wonder if I as a male, could 
do the same.

Anne Rice/Rampling/I forget her third "nom de plume" is not in JKR's 
league.  She lost me as a reader with The Vampire Lestat.  I wonder 
if her interaction with online fandom hurt her later writing. 

Haggridd




From barbfulton at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 19:56:01 2004
From: barbfulton at yahoo.com (Barb Fulton)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:56:01 -0000
Subject: Fantastic Hob Nobs in Minnesota and Where to Find Them
In-Reply-To: <cin53j+i3sl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cislch+n95h@eGroups.com>

bboyminn wrote: 

At the corner of 9th and south Nicollet (on the Mall) diagonally
across the street from the WCCO-TV building and right across the
street from Orchestra Hall is "Brit's Pub". Just inside the front 
door they have a tiny glass front cabinet by the cash register with 
an assortment of candy bars and other food. I didn't recognise any 
of the candy bars.

I found Hob Nobs (two words; brand name is one word) in the Lagoon 
St. Rainbow Foods, (Uptown area just east of Lake and Hennepin). 
They also had 'PIMS" which appear to be a very close knock off of 
Jaffa Cake (soft shortbread biscuit, orange filling, chocolate 
covering). These were in the cookie/cracker aisle with the specialty 
and imported cookies. (Look for Walker brand and the others will be 
nearby.)

In addition, in my wanderings, I found 'Duchy Originals' Ginger, and
Lemon Biscuits at the Wedge Coop just south of Franklin on Lyndale.
They were out of Ginger, but I read a review that said the Lemon were
very good. I think I'll try them both. Unfortunately, at the moment
I'm trying to drop 10 pounds, so cookie fantasies will have to wait a
while.

Barb now:
Thanks for the info, Steve! I've been to Brits-should've thought of 
that right away. I'll be checking out the stuff at Rainbow and the 
Wedge, too. (Better before winter comes and I can't exercise outside 
as much!)
-Barb




From spin01 at aol.com  Thu Sep 23 14:04:33 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:04:33 -0000
Subject: doxie / spider help!!!
Message-ID: <ciul5h+3iv9@eGroups.com>

I have been to the JKR site so often it is now in my favorite 
places.  I have 5 things in my scrap book but can't seem to catch the 
spider and my marble does not ever glow so am not able to do that 
part either.  I read that someone had the watch change to show 12 
hands.  Is that the wrist watch in the bottom of the site?  I have 
not had that happen either.  I have the following things in the scrap 
book   
ancient drawings pg 2, 3, and 4
page of doodlings page 2 and very early page of philosopher's stone

so what am I missing and how do I get it?  I have went to potters key 
site but it didn't help.  thanks for anyone who can help.  If you 
want to email me seperate from the list that is fine.  thanks
sherry




From bhobbs at midmaine.com  Thu Sep 23 16:18:20 2004
From: bhobbs at midmaine.com (Belinda)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:18:20 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week
Message-ID: <ciut0c+as26@eGroups.com>

Sept. 25 ? Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week
Tomorrow (Friday) marks the beginning of Banned Books Week. Since 
1982, the last week of September has been celebrated as BBW to remind 
everyone to protect our most basic and fundamental freedom: the right 
to free speech and access to it.

I'm sure the members of this forum are not the folks who need 
educating on this issue, but I thought it a good idea to mention it 
anyway.  Especially given that our beloved author tops many lists of 
challenged and banned books/ authors.  

I'm also sure that most of you know that this issue exists... but do 
you realize how serious it has become?

2003 was the first time in four years that Jo was NOT the most 
challenged author according to the American Library Association, when 
she was edged to number 2.  She ranked 48th on the top 100 challenged 
books list from 1990 to 1999, she now ranks 7th!   Another scary 
point is that her ranking there is for the entire series.  Challenges 
are counted by title, so individually she would likely hold several 
spots.  

Here is a link to the ALA Banned and Challenged books page.
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/challengedbanned/challenged
banned.htm

Scroll down and peruse the lists of most challenged authors and 
books.  Jo is in good company, don't you think?  How many of you 
recognize titles or authors there?  How many of you were changed by 
reading their works?  As a pre-teen girl Judy Blume's book "Are You 
There, God? It's Me, Margaret" made a difference in my life, and has 
for countless others.  Imagine if you were denied the chance to know 
about these books?

As a librarian (more exactly, a school librarian) I understand first 
hand the issues involved with challenging and banning books.  I have 
been fortunate in my career not to have had any serious situations.  
I'm lucky!  Many librarians must deal with challenges regularly.  

 Just ask Steve Vander Ark. (I hope he doesn't mind me saying this.)
Steve is a school librarian at a private school in Michigan.  His BOD 
have forbidden him to teach Harry Potter.  Steve Vander Ark, author 
of the Lexicon, foremost authority on everything Potter, and he can't 
so much as read aloud a passage from the book!  I think he has 
managed to keep copies on his shelves, but he has had a terrible 
struggle.

I hope that I piqued your curiosity to look at the lists, and 
further, encouraged you to care about this issue.  I can't imagine 
our world without Harry in it, and wish that all people would see it 
that way.  It is such an irony that JKR's stories- filled with 
messages of tolerance, cooperation, and the triumph of love over evil-
 should be the most targeted by censors.  
Lumos,
Belinda







From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 22 18:51:41 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:51:41 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat
In-Reply-To: <cirrt1+uac6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cishjt+pujr@eGroups.com>


"animalspussycat" <animalspussycat at y...> wrote:
> > ---when is the next chat?

> garybec" <garybec at y...> wrote:
> They are on Sundays at the posted time.


---thank you!

"animalspussycat" 




From bhobbs at midmaine.com  Thu Sep 23 17:32:51 2004
From: bhobbs at midmaine.com (Belinda)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:32:51 -0000
Subject: JKR site hints
In-Reply-To: <ciul5h+3iv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <civ1c3+98bs@eGroups.com>

Sherrie, I'm not surprised that potterskeys wasn't helpful.... a 
really nice site but missing a few things.

I have compiled a list of everything on the site.
I posted my offer to share it a long time ago (before the updates) 
and got a huge response.  So here it is again!

If anyone would like my new and improved list, please email me at the 
link on my name :-)

Lumos,
Belinda




From spin01 at aol.com  Thu Sep 23 18:14:53 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:14:53 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week
In-Reply-To: <ciut0c+as26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <civ3qt+v78q@eGroups.com>

Ok so color me stupid but what could anyone find to complain about 
the Where's Waldo book?  and come on what is wrong with Shel 
Silverstein.  Your right there are dozens that I have read and have 
read for my kids also.  I just don't get the whole banned book 
thing.  for me its a lot like TV.  if you feel your kids is not old 
enough then it is the parents responsibility to keep it away fromt he 
kid.  not the rest of the worlds.  I fight this on a daily basis.  
from my kids lol.  There are things I won't let them  do/have that I 
hear the "well everyone else's mom lets them"  I am not everyone 
elses mom.  I don't like them playing video games that are blood and 
guts and war and violence.  But I don't expect the store to take care 
of that.  I do it myself.  
sherry
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Belinda" <bhobbs at m...> wrote:
> Sept. 25 ? Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week
> Tomorrow (Friday) marks the beginning of Banned Books Week. Since 
> 1982, the last week of September has been celebrated as BBW to 
remind 
> everyone to protect our most basic and fundamental freedom: the 
right 
> to free speech and access to it.
> 
> I'm sure the members of this forum are not the folks who need 
> educating on this issue, but I thought it a good idea to mention it 
> anyway.  Especially given that our beloved author tops many lists 
of 
> challenged and banned books/ authors.  
> 
> I'm also sure that most of you know that this issue exists... but 
do 
> you realize how serious it has become?
> 
> 2003 was the first time in four years that Jo was NOT the most 
> challenged author according to the American Library Association, 
when 
> she was edged to number 2.  She ranked 48th on the top 100 
challenged 
> books list from 1990 to 1999, she now ranks 7th!   Another scary 
> point is that her ranking there is for the entire series.  
Challenges 
> are counted by title, so individually she would likely hold several 
> spots.  
> 
> Here is a link to the ALA Banned and Challenged books page.
> 
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/challengedbanned/challenged
> banned.htm
> 
> Scroll down and peruse the lists of most challenged authors and 
> books.  Jo is in good company, don't you think?  How many of you 
> recognize titles or authors there?  How many of you were changed by 
> reading their works?  As a pre-teen girl Judy Blume's book "Are You 
> There, God? It's Me, Margaret" made a difference in my life, and 
has 
> for countless others.  Imagine if you were denied the chance to 
know 
> about these books?
> 
> As a librarian (more exactly, a school librarian) I understand 
first 
> hand the issues involved with challenging and banning books.  I 
have 
> been fortunate in my career not to have had any serious 
situations.  
> I'm lucky!  Many librarians must deal with challenges regularly.  
> 
>  Just ask Steve Vander Ark. (I hope he doesn't mind me saying this.)
> Steve is a school librarian at a private school in Michigan.  His 
BOD 
> have forbidden him to teach Harry Potter.  Steve Vander Ark, author 
> of the Lexicon, foremost authority on everything Potter, and he 
can't 
> so much as read aloud a passage from the book!  I think he has 
> managed to keep copies on his shelves, but he has had a terrible 
> struggle.
> 
> I hope that I piqued your curiosity to look at the lists, and 
> further, encouraged you to care about this issue.  I can't imagine 
> our world without Harry in it, and wish that all people would see 
it 
> that way.  It is such an irony that JKR's stories- filled with 
> messages of tolerance, cooperation, and the triumph of love over 
evil-
>  should be the most targeted by censors.  
> Lumos,
> Belinda




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 23 19:17:46 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:17:46 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.
Message-ID: <civ7gq+r4tu@eGroups.com>

I was searching through the Archieves for something and discovered
that /text searching/ the archive was a 100 times easier than using
the worthless Yahoo Group Search tool.

Then I thought about downloading the entire contents of the archives.

Then I wonder if anyone else would be inclined to do the same.

Then I wonder if anyone would like the entire 'Harry Potter for
Grownups Archive' on CD-ROM.

You REALLY can search for terms and phrase much much faster than using
the Yahoo groups search.

I haven't downloaded everything, but I have 30,000 posts and they take
up 25Mb of space on my hard drive. That means the entire archive would
fit on a single CD with room left over for some freeware tools for
extracting and searching the data.

SO...

This is a preliminary inquiry, if I put the archive on CD-ROM with
tools to extact, view, and search, would anyone be willing to pay me
$2 or maybe $3 for my time plus postage? 

Remember, this isn't free for me, I have to buy the CD's, burn them,
buy a CD storage envelope, buy a CD shipping enevelope then haul it
all down to the post office and put postage on it. I don't have to
make money, but I absolutely can NOT afford to lose money on the deal.

It should be noted that the current archives extend from the EGroups
version of HP4GU to 68,000 posts in the current group. The most recent
post is 113,681. If the demand is strong enough, maybe we can
encourage them to update the archives. 

Since I burn my CD/R-ROMs as 'multi-session' you could add to the disk
as the archives are updated. Or, I would be willing to sell new full
CD's or just the update CD too.

At this time, this is just a thought; ...so, anyone interested?

Steve/bboyminn







From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 23 19:25:54 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:25:54 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.
References: <civ7gq+r4tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00f601c4a1a3$88423cc0$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>

  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.
  Steve/bboyminn said:
  This is a preliminary inquiry, if I put the archive on CD-ROM with
  tools to extact, view, and search, would anyone be willing to pay me
  $2 or maybe $3 for my time plus postage? 

  Jenny here:
  Well, Steve, since I just recently joined the list and missed a lot,
  I would LOVE to have one of your CDs. And yes, I would be willing
  to pay for it.
  Jenny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From plungy116 at aol.com  Thu Sep 23 19:48:32 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:48:32 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week (bit of a rant)
In-Reply-To: <ciut0c+as26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <civ9ag+g6bb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Belinda" <bhobbs at m...> wrote:
> Sept. 25 ? Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week
> Tomorrow (Friday) marks the beginning of Banned Books Week.

I can't believe that the books of my adolescence are here on the 
list.  I'm British, but found Judy Blume just about the only author I 
read by choice as a teenager.  "Forever" got passed round and giggled 
over, and maybe our parents wouldn't have liked all the content, but 
its part of growing up isn't it?  I have bought my son books 
like "Living with a willy" and sex information stuff - would they be 
banned too?
I studied Lord of the Flies at school - what's wrong with that great 
literary classic?
I'm not a huge reader, my scope is limited and I'm trying to make an 
effort to read more, but I like to be able make the choices myself.  
My son is 14 and if he's reading something, I'm happy.  If he's 
getting useful information from it all the better, if it prompts an 
enquiring mind to ask questions and find answers then what is the 
problem?  We want our children to be well informed, making decisions 
based on fact and knowledge - for God's sake lets make that knowledge 
as great as possible.  Its hard enough living in this world as it is 
without denying information, limiting imagination and censoring the 
little darlings from everything that's bad until the moment they come 
of age and it all hits them simultaneously.
Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant
Sarah xx
Whose son is exposed to life's harsh cautionary tales on a daily 
basis just by living with me and his father.




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 23 20:03:14 2004
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:03:14 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week (bit of a rant)
In-Reply-To: <civ9ag+g6bb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <006901c4a1a8$5d5362a0$0400a8c0@pensive>

Isn't that a list of books that have been banned in the past, not
necessarily books that are banned now/  I don't believe any book should ever
be banned.  On the other hand, I think parents can exercise their own bans
if they want.  My folks let me read well ahead of my age and most of it was
ok.  But I was an extremely sensitive kid.  I read lord of the Flies in high
school, in the early 70's, and it disturbed me profoundly and deeply.  I
suppose the violence.  I've never read it again to see what I'd think of it
all these years later.  Funny, I read books with far more violence and am an
avid mystery reader.  Yet, to this day, books with violence toward children
or animals get to me to the point where I may have to stop reading a book if
it's too graphic.  if I had a child as sensitive as I am, I might be
inclined to try to guide her reading a little till she was an adult.  But
knowing how much I loved reading, I probably wouldn't, especially once she
was a teenager.  Hopefully, Judy Blume and lord of the Flies are no longer
banned books!

Sherry


-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah [mailto:plungy116 at aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:49 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week (bit of a rant)


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Belinda" <bhobbs at m...> wrote:
> Sept. 25 - Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week
> Tomorrow (Friday) marks the beginning of Banned Books Week.

I can't believe that the books of my adolescence are here on the 
list.  I'm British, but found Judy Blume just about the only author I 
read by choice as a teenager.  "Forever" got passed round and giggled 
over, and maybe our parents wouldn't have liked all the content, but 
its part of growing up isn't it?  I have bought my son books 
like "Living with a willy" and sex information stuff - would they be 
banned too?
I studied Lord of the Flies at school - what's wrong with that great 
literary classic?
I'm not a huge reader, my scope is limited and I'm trying to make an 
effort to read more, but I like to be able make the choices myself.  
My son is 14 and if he's reading something, I'm happy.  If he's 
getting useful information from it all the better, if it prompts an 
enquiring mind to ask questions and find answers then what is the 
problem?  We want our children to be well informed, making decisions 
based on fact and knowledge - for God's sake lets make that knowledge 
as great as possible.  Its hard enough living in this world as it is 
without denying information, limiting imagination and censoring the 
little darlings from everything that's bad until the moment they come 
of age and it all hits them simultaneously.
Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant
Sarah xx
Whose son is exposed to life's harsh cautionary tales on a daily 
basis just by living with me and his father.




________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 23 20:52:50 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:52:50 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Banned Books Week
References: <ciut0c+as26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <018701c4a1af$92a74140$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Belinda 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:18 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Banned Books Week


  Sept. 25 - Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week

  Here is a link to the ALA Banned and Challenged books page.
  http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/challengedbanned/challenged
  banned.htm

  Scroll down and peruse the lists of most challenged authors and 
  books.  Jo is in good company, don't you think?  How many of you 
  recognize titles or authors there?  How many of you were changed by 
  reading their works?  As a pre-teen girl Judy Blume's book "Are You 
  There, God? It's Me, Margaret" made a difference in my life, and has 
  for countless others.  Imagine if you were denied the chance to know 
  about these books?


  To Kill A Mockingbird?!?!?!? What could any one possibly find
  wrong with that book? And the movie still makes me cry every
  time I watch it.
  Jenny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 23 21:40:51 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:40:51 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week
In-Reply-To: <018701c4a1af$92a74140$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>
Message-ID: <civft3+ahln@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bamajenny12" 
<BamaJenny12 at y...> wrote:
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Belinda 
>   To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:18 AM
>   Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Banned Books Week
> 
> 
>   Sept. 25 - Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week
> 
>   Here is a link to the ALA Banned and Challenged books page.
>   
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/challengedbanned/challenge
dbanned.htm
> 
>   Scroll down and peruse the lists of most challenged authors and 
>   books.  Jo is in good company, don't you think?  How many of you 
>   recognize titles or authors there?  How many of you were changed 
by reading their works?  As a pre-teen girl Judy Blume's book "Are 
You There, God? It's Me, Margaret" made a difference in my life, and 
has for countless others.  Imagine if you were denied the chance to 
know about these books?
> 
>   To Kill A Mockingbird?!?!?!? What could any one possibly find
>   wrong with that book? And the movie still makes me cry every
>   time I watch it.
>   Jenny
> 
*****\(@@)/*****

Frightening that people are ignorant enough to want to force others 
to do their will - sort of an American Taliban don't you think?  If 
you don't want your children or yourselves to read those books then 
don't! - it is all a matter of choice. But for the rest of us who DO 
want to read them I say to these people: Mind Your Own Business!

For me, many of those books were great stories and the rest, well, I 
guess I have just increased my must read list!

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****

They let me out of the barn and I ain't going back!




From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Thu Sep 23 23:19:52 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (Rynne)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:19:52 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Melissa!
Message-ID: <civlmo+fd2p@eGroups.com>

Ah, such a beautiful day for another birthday, isn't it? *grins* 
Good thing we have one, then!

Today's birthday honoree is Melissa McCarthy, who can be owled 
birthday greetings at risako at nexusanime.com.  Do drop her a line and 
wish her a happy birthday!

Now...*levitates a bunch of streamers and starts directing them to 
hang themselves* And here are the decorations!  Does anyone want a 
party hat? *grins*

And of course, we mustn't forget the cake and ice cream.  Come on 
out, cake and ice cream! *beckons with a finger, and a cake and 
quart of chocolate ice cream float out* Enjoy, everyone!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MELISSA!

--Rynny the birthday elf




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 06:17:36 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:17:36 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week
In-Reply-To: <018701c4a1af$92a74140$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>
Message-ID: <cj0e60+el01@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bamajenny12"
<BamaJenny12 at y...> wrote:
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Belinda 
>   To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:18 AM
>   Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Banned Books Week
> 
> 
>   Sept. 25 - Oct. 1 is Banned Books Week
> 
>   Here is a link to the ALA Banned and Challenged books page.
>   http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/challengedbanned/challenged
>   banned.htm
> 
>   Scroll down and peruse the lists of most challenged authors and 
>   books.  Jo is in good company, don't you think?

Just wanted to point out that this is a list of the most frequently
*challenged* books, i.e. people wanted them banned. It doesn't
actually tell you whether or not they actually were banned, or from
how many places.

Oddly enough, my kids seem to be limiting themselves where I wouldn't.
 One daughter avoided a manga for nearly a year because Yugi swears in
it. Granted, that does seem OOC to someone who has seen him on TV...

Does anyone know how widespread the banning of books acutally is?  At
least in our society, if a kid can't get a book from the school
library, at least we can get it for him or her from the public
library, bookstore, or the internet.

A funny (yet sad) thought: more good literature is undoubtedly kept
away from us because publishing companies didn't believe in its
marketablility than was ever banned from library shelves.  To be sure,
there is more self- and electronic- publishing of books these days,
but it is still not very widespread. I've never got a book that way.

Just a few thoughts to mark the week (a week for thinking if there
ever was one).

Annemehr
hoping JKR is more proud of sticking to her guns than upset by the few
detractors





From sad1199 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 06:41:37 2004
From: sad1199 at yahoo.com (sad1199)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:41:37 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.
In-Reply-To: <civ7gq+r4tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj0fj1+9num@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
wrote:
> I was searching through the Archieves for something and discovered
> that /text searching/ the archive was a 100 times easier than using
> the worthless Yahoo Group Search tool.
> 
> Then I thought about downloading the entire contents of the 
archives.
> 
> Then I wonder if anyone else would be inclined to do the same.
> 
> Then I wonder if anyone would like the entire 'Harry Potter for
> Grownups Archive' on CD-ROM.
> 
> You REALLY can search for terms and phrase much much faster than 
using
> the Yahoo groups search.
> 
> I haven't downloaded everything, but I have 30,000 posts and they 
take
> up 25Mb of space on my hard drive. That means the entire archive 
would
> fit on a single CD with room left over for some freeware tools for
> extracting and searching the data.
> 
> SO...
> 
> This is a preliminary inquiry, if I put the archive on CD-ROM with
> tools to extact, view, and search, would anyone be willing to pay 
me
> $2 or maybe $3 for my time plus postage? 
> 
> Remember, this isn't free for me, I have to buy the CD's, burn 
them,
> buy a CD storage envelope, buy a CD shipping enevelope then haul it
> all down to the post office and put postage on it. I don't have to
> make money, but I absolutely can NOT afford to lose money on the 
deal.
> 
> It should be noted that the current archives extend from the 
EGroups
> version of HP4GU to 68,000 posts in the current group. The most 
recent
> post is 113,681. If the demand is strong enough, maybe we can
> encourage them to update the archives. 
> 
> Since I burn my CD/R-ROMs as 'multi-session' you could add to the 
disk
> as the archives are updated. Or, I would be willing to sell new 
full
> CD's or just the update CD too.
> 
> At this time, this is just a thought; ...so, anyone interested?
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

sad1199 here: 

     Since my biggest fear is posting something someone else has 
already written I search the archives often. If I had a CD I'm sure 
it would be that much easier. What address would you like me to mail 
the money to?

A grateful Harry Potter reader.  sad1199 




From humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au  Fri Sep 24 06:42:10 2004
From: humantupperware1 at yahoo.com.au (humantupperware1)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:42:10 -0000
Subject: banned books week.
In-Reply-To: <cj0e60+el01@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj0fk2+aqh5@eGroups.com>

HumanTupperware here:

Just wanted to chuck in my two cents on the banned books thing......

I was so impressed by the reaction of the members here about this issue. The 
idea that it is our responsibilty to monitor and guide the reading and exposure 
to information of our children is a noble thing. For me, knowledge is power. I 
once tried to give up reading for a while and I lasted three days. My life has 
been enrinched and enlightened by many of the books on the list. 
I was given a copy of To Kill a Mockingbird when I was eleven years old and I 
have read it once a year ever since (I am now 25). Even though eleven was 
young to be reading about such subject matter as racism, rape and the legal 
system in southern America, that book taught me more about the human soul 
that anything else ever. More than religion ever did. 

The Judy Blume books helped me through a difficult adolescence and helped 
me realise that being a teenager is a universal experience, and always a little 
difficult, no matter who you are. Lord of the Flies, though disturbing, tells us 
much about human nature and the primal being that resides in all of us when 
we are stripped down to our essential selves. 

And of course, all of us will agree that Harry Potter has enriched all of our 
lives, and I would venture, helps children maintain thier belief in magic (not 
necessarily witchcraft, but magic) and the power of love, courage, friendship 
and imagination. 

I guess I just wanted to share my love of books and knowledge with you all, 
and to say that I suspect that when a book is challenged or banned, it 
probably strikes at a part of ourselves that many people would rather ignore 
or deny. The very bits that I am most interested in, and believe it would do us 
all a lot of good to examine all aspects of human experience, not just the ones 
that fit into a certain moral framework. I am profoundly distubed by the thought 
that someone I don't know has the power to decide what I can and cannot 
read/watch/listen to. 

Cheers everyone,

HumanTupperware (who apologises for the length...one I started I found it 
difficult to stop....)




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 13:15:21 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:15:21 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week
In-Reply-To: <cj0e60+el01@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj16l9+atui@eGroups.com>

Replying to my own message because I just had another thought --
Earlier I wrote:
> A funny (yet sad) thought: more good literature is undoubtedly kept
> away from us because publishing companies didn't believe in its
> marketablility than was ever banned from library shelves.

For this reason, even if Scholastic decided to publish the final HP
books word for word the same as the UK editions, I'd still order
Bloomsbury editions for myself even though I get Scholastic's on
release day. Because, man, do I *owe* them for taking a chance on Jo!

Annemehr





From talisman22457 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 16:12:18 2004
From: talisman22457 at yahoo.com (Talisman)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:12:18 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.
In-Reply-To: <civ7gq+r4tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj1h12+8rfa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
wrote:
> > This is a preliminary inquiry, if I put the archive on CD-ROM 
>with tools to extact, view, and search, would anyone be willing to 
>pay me $2 or maybe $3 for my time plus postage? 
<SNIP>
> At this time, this is just a thought; ...so, anyone interested?
> 
> Steve/bboyminn


Steve, darling,

I'd be willing to send you a stack of CD's, a postage-applied-self-
addressed-media-envelope, cash, and a chocolate chip cookie.

This is a lovely service and folks should take advantage of it.
Offline text searching would do many posters a world of good; and 
let's not forget, there is nothing as ethereal as a website.

You, of course, are a maniac/sweetheart to offer to do this for
everyone(and Snape is a vampire).

-x x-
v---v

Talisman





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 16:25:54 2004
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:25:54 -0000
Subject: Thanks
Message-ID: <cj1hqi+pk6a@eGroups.com>

I want to thank you to the poster (I don't remember the name 
unfortunately), who couple of weeks ago recommended "Jonathan Strange 
and Mr. Norrell" by Susanna Clarke.

It IS a great read indeed.

Thank you.




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 18:36:15 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:36:15 -0000
Subject: Link for Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs)
In-Reply-To: <cihvu4+cd97@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj1pev+q1u5@eGroups.com>

Steve (bboy) wrote:

> I just bought a tin yesterday at a local British Pub (keep in mind
> that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (?3.34).

?!!!

How big a "tin" are we talking?  Whenever I've found them they've 
been small plastic-wrapped packages, or occasionally paper 
cylinders, in either case with about 12 biscuits.  These are 
McVitie's.  Carr's makes the plain ones, though I think they are a 
poor second to the chocolate-coated ones.  Chacun a son gout.

They cost about $3.50 at a chi-chi market around here.  Whither the 
inexpensive Midwest?  I could ship you a case and you'd still save 
money.  But then you'd have an entire case, and shortly afterwards, 
a ballooning waistline.

The food conversations here are very dangerous.  I have been buying 
100 Grand bars ever since talking about them a few weeks ago.  I 
wonder if anyone sells mini-ones in bags for Halloween.  After all, 
it's a civic obligation to buy candy for trick-or-treaters, and it's 
very important to buy more than you think you need so you don't run 
out.

Amy Z




From BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 19:17:12 2004
From: BamaJenny12 at yahoo.com (bamajenny12)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:17:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.
References: <cj1e2p+oi24@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00f601c4a26b$1c005240$6101a8c0@launchmodem.com>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Talisman 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:22 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: All The Wisdom in the World, ...or at least, Our World.


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> 
  wrote:
  > >> 
  > This is a preliminary inquiry, if I put the archive on CD-ROM with
  > tools to extact, view, and search, would anyone be willing to pay 
  me
  > $2 or maybe $3 for my time plus postage? 
  <snip> 
  > At this time, this is just a thought; ...so, anyone interested?
  > 
  > Steve/bboyminn

  Steve, darling,

  I'd be willing to send you a stack of CD's, a postage-applied-self- 
  addressed-media-envelope, cash, and a chocolate chip cookie.

  This is a lovely service and folks should take advantage of it.  
  Offline searching would do many posters a world of good.  And let's 
  not forget, there is nothing as etheral as a website. 

  You, of course, are a maniac/sweetheart to offer to do this for 
  everyone(and Snape is a vampire)  x x
                                   v---v 

  Talisman

  Boy, Talisman, Yahoo! Groups wants to make sure that Steve
  gets your message. :-)) This is now the third time in about
  three hours that I have received this same message. Hey Steve.
  Does getting the same message three times count as three votes
  for the CD? If it does, then I guess I'll have to go start a
  Yahoo 'malfunction' of my own. LOL
  Jenny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 19:36:20 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:36:20 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...Retraction of Offer
In-Reply-To: <civ7gq+r4tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj1svk+3266@eGroups.com>

I receive a very polite note from the List Elves informing me that if
any money is involved in the dissemination of this information then
the transaction is in violation of the many author's Copyrights.

Technically, when you post here, you are putting your original
thoughts into a printed form and making it available to the public,
that constitutes 'publication' and establishes each author's
Copyrights to those original thoughts. Therefore, by some stretch, we
are all published authors... Woo Hoo!

To some extent, I question whether distributing freely published
information to its intended audience, the members of the group, in a
non-profit way is truly a Copyright violation, it is, in the end, not
my call to make. The Moderators have asked me to withdraw the offer,
and so I must.

I think I will continue to download the Archives mostly because I am
curious about how big it will be. Keep in mind, the current archives
only go to post 68,000 (July 2003) while current posts are around
114,000. (Might be time for another update.)

Thanks to all who were interested, but I guess I have to retract the
offer from this forum.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 20:12:49 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:12:49 -0000
Subject: ...Jammie Dodgers, ..- LINKS (Hobnobs) & Coffee
In-Reply-To: <cj1pev+q1u5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj1v41+2vac@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> wrote:
> Steve (bboy) wrote:
> 
> > I just bought a tin yesterday at a local British Pub (keep in mind
> > that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (?3.34).


> ?!!!
> 
> How big a "tin" are we talking?  Whenever I've found them they've 
> been small plastic-wrapped packages, or occasionally paper 
> cylinders, in either case with about 12 biscuits.  
> 
> Amy Z

Hi Amy,

Remember that I bought a 'tin' of British cookies in a bar/pub in the
middle of the frozen tundra of the great white north, so I certainly
paid a premium price. 

This 'tin' was more like a foil lined paper can, maybe 6 inches tall
at the most, and yes, had about 12 cookies in it. I ate all but three
before I had walked a block, and left the last three for the local
bums to eat. 

I like the chocolate, but at the moment, since I'm trying lose weight,
the chocolate didn't really apeal to me. (Overal, I love chocolate,
and it was reasonably good chocolate.)

To show you how well my diet is going, Monday I went for a bike ride,
and went through the 'little Asian' neighborhood (south of Franklin on
Nicollet) and decide to wander through some of the Asian grocery
stores. Sadly but enjoyably, I bought a box of Parrot brand 'Coffee
Milk' biscuits. These are thin sweet cracker-like biscuits with a
wonderful coffee flavor and seemed to have a slight hint of maple to
them; really excellent. Usually, I buy the Parrot brand Coconut
biscuits which are also excellent. Sadly, I finished the whole pack
before I had ridden 5 blocks. 

As long as we are on the subject of Asian Grocery stores I found the
best coffee I've ever had. I like milk in my coffee, so I tried some
'Gold Kili' brand (it's the best) '3in1 Instant Coffee Milk'. Great
instant coffee, milk, and a hint of sugar all in single serving foil
packs; 30 for about US$3 or $4. 

One of the things I like about the 'Gold Kili' brand is that it has
the least sugar of any of the '3in1 coffee milk' brands.

A distant side note: Did you know that Asians frequently add just a
bit of sugar to their (uncooked) coffee so it retains is flavor and
aroma while it is stored? It works! I add about 1/4 of a teaspoon (I
don't measure, I just put in a bit) to a 4 ounce jar of instant coffee
and it seems to stay fresh longer. Just add a pinch of
powered/bakers/confectioners sugar to the jar and shake it up so all
the coffee is coated with sugar. Don't know why it works but it works. 

Keep in mind, you are not trying to sweeten the coffee, you are just
adding a trace of sugar, enough to add a very light dusty coating to
the coffee granules. (works with instant or fresh ground coffee)

Sorry, just rambling.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)
 




From hphgrwlca at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 20:26:42 2004
From: hphgrwlca at yahoo.com (Christine Acker)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:26:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Banned Books Week
In-Reply-To: <1096019808.675.995.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040924202642.25909.qmail@web51701.mail.yahoo.com>


Hey all.  I actually wrote a paper for my Rhetoric class (I attend the University of Texas at Austin) about the banning of Harry Potter, and used some of the same ALA statistics.  I got an A, so I thought I'd share my take on the situation.  Any comments would be appreciated.

https://webspace.utexas.edu/lca55/Rhe%20309S/new%20hp.doc

Best,

Christine

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 21:02:17 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:02:17 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week -Excellent Essay
In-Reply-To: <20040924202642.25909.qmail@web51701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cj220p+37fs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Christine Acker
<hphgrwlca at y...> wrote:
> 
> Hey all.  I actually wrote a paper for my Rhetoric class (I attend
the University of Texas at Austin) about the banning of Harry Potter,
and used some of the same ALA statistics.  I got an A, so I thought
I'd share my take on the situation.  Any comments would be appreciated.
> 
> https://webspace.utexas.edu/lca55/Rhe%20309S/new%20hp.doc
> 
> Best,
> 
> Christine

bboyminn:

Very good! I especially was glad to see that you had quoted or
referenced the opinion of mainstream religious leaders like Billy
Graham. Every major religion (Jewish, Catholic, Church of England,
etc...) has endorsed these books as reasonable and morally sound
books. I think it is important for people who are concerned about this
issue to be aware of this. 

Too many people are making their judgements based on something they
heard from some one who heard something from some one who knows a guy
who has a cousin who heard something some where. There are soooooo
many people in this world who are so desperate for other people to do
their thinking for them.

I think a majority of people who are protesting Harry Potter are
people who are or are being influenced by radical people who enjoy
seeing their name in the paper and on the news just a little too much.

As I have said in past discussions, the Bible warns us of many many
things, but one of the most critical things, in my  opinion, the Bible
warns us about it paying any attention to people who speak the name of
the Lord just a little too often, and just a little too loudly, and
with just a little too much conviction. Follow these people and you
are more likely to be following the devil than God.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)








From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Fri Sep 24 22:56:13 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:56:13 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: All The Wisdom in the World, ...Retraction of Offer
In-Reply-To: <cj1svk+3266@eGroups.com>
References: <civ7gq+r4tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <415532AD.16161.5F2B70@localhost>

On 24 Sep 2004 at 19:36, Steve wrote:

> To some extent, I question whether distributing freely published
> information to its intended audience, the members of the group, in a
> non-profit way is truly a Copyright violation, it is, in the end, not
> my call to make. The Moderators have asked me to withdraw the offer,
> and so I must.

There are other issues as well.

I'd be rather uncomfortable if some of the things I've written 
about on the various list were being distributed on CD ROMS. I 
don't have a problem with them being in the list archives, because 
if need be I can always delete that record myself. And I understand 
that people will have their own personal records that I can't 
touch.

But when people start talking about distributing CDs of the 
messages, I get a little bit concerned. A lot of people share some 
quite personal information at times on these lists, and many would 
do so only with certain expectations of how that information is 
stored.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 24 23:18:35 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:18:35 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...Retraction of Offer
In-Reply-To: <415532AD.16161.5F2B70@localhost>
Message-ID: <cj2a0b+1s48@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...>
wrote:

> ...edited...
> 
> But when people start talking about distributing CDs of the 
> messages, I get a little bit concerned. A lot of people share some 
> quite personal information at times on these lists, and many would 
> do so only with certain expectations of how that information is 
> stored.
> 
> Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
> Shaun Hately 


bboyminn:

Good point Shaun, something I hadn't considered. 

I would like to point out that the information regarding the
availability would have been confined to this group, meaning people
who were not members would not be likely to have access to it.

Also, the archives are in .ZIP files each of which contains a text
file, and each text file contains 1,000 posts. To search them, you
have to load the file in a text editor and search for terms and
phrases, but unlike Yahoo, you can't search for multiple terms or
phrases. Not a very good format of data mining.

None the less, with Shaun's comments and at the request of the
Moderators, it's not such a good idea afteral. People can individually
download the files, just as I am doing. If it uses too much disk
space, you can burn them to CD and erase them from your hard drive.

It was just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn 




From lists at heidi8.com  Sat Sep 25 09:30:30 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 05:30:30 -0400
Subject: More on banned books week
Message-ID: <1096104633.3816F2A2@g29.dngr.org>

We posted an article I did on TLC (it'll be up on fictionalley at 
http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums today) - it's at 
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/week_2004_09_19.html - 
please feel free to share your experiences there, too!

Heidi



From joseph at kirtland.com  Sat Sep 25 03:04:00 2004
From: joseph at kirtland.com (Joe Bento)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:04:00 -0000
Subject: British and US Editions
Message-ID: <cj2n70+oouf@eGroups.com>

I'm happy to say that my Harry Potter collection is now complete.

For the English speaking world anyway, I now own both the UK and 
American editions.

The UK books just arrived at my home in Utah a couple days ago from 
an easy order on amazon.co.uk.  Now I'm rereading the series in 
its "native" language.

I still don't completely understand why JKR's American editor saw 
fit to change the text at all, regardless at how minor those changes 
are.  As you all probably know, the changes are pretty 
insignificant - colloquialisms primarily that are different between 
the UK and US, though not unheard of in either country. The US is a 
large enough country that some words may be common in both the UK 
and a particular US region, but perhaps not in a different US 
region. Nonetheless, the American editor should give their readers 
more credit and leave the books as written in British English.

Well, I'm not so much a fanatic to collect different covers - in the 
UK editions, I just bought the "adult" cover editions.  Speaking of 
which - anyone notice the photo on P/S is from West Virginia, USA?  
I thought that was rather ironic to portray the Hogwarts Express.

Joe







From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Sat Sep 25 10:25:53 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloise_herisson)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:25:53 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...Retraction of Offer
In-Reply-To: <cj2a0b+1s48@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj3h3h+uss6@eGroups.com>

Steve:
> None the less, with Shaun's comments and at the request of the
> Moderators, it's not such a good idea afteral. People can 
individually
> download the files, just as I am doing. If it uses too much disk
> space, you can burn them to CD and erase them from your hard drive.
> 
> It was just a thought.


Can I just say as an individual member of the admin team how much I 
appreciate Steve's thoughtfulness in offering to do this. I know 
others on the team feel the same way. We are all as frustrated as any 
of you at the difficulty of searching the archives and it was a very 
*good* thought, Steve, in more ways than one.

~Eloise

P.S. For a helpful explanation of copyright law in relation to the 
internet (I'm not a lawyer so I can't comment on its accuracy) see

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html




From ryokas at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 25 10:31:24 2004
From: ryokas at hotmail.com (kizor0)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:31:24 -0000
Subject: All The Wisdom in the World, ...Retraction of Offer
In-Reply-To: <cj1svk+3266@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj3hds+rpat@eGroups.com>

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Being a tech geek I have to inquire,
though: How do/did you add stuff to the archives? While I'm no
stranger to the brute force 'firing off several thousand get commands'
method of collecting massive amounts of stuff, the scale of HPfGU
rather defeats the option.

- Kizor




From spin01 at aol.com  Sat Sep 25 13:31:06 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:31:06 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week
In-Reply-To: <20040924202642.25909.qmail@web51701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cj3ruq+u6ns@eGroups.com>

I thought you paper was great.  It covered all the bases and I may 
quote from it.
sherry 

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Christine Acker 
<hphgrwlca at y...> wrote:
> 
> Hey all.  I actually wrote a paper for my Rhetoric class (I attend 
the University of Texas at Austin) about the banning of Harry Potter, 
and used some of the same ALA statistics.  I got an A, so I thought 
I'd share my take on the situation.  Any comments would be 
appreciated.
> 
> https://webspace.utexas.edu/lca55/Rhe%20309S/new%20hp.doc
> 
> Best,
> 
> Christine
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 25 16:55:43 2004
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Brirish yum-yums (Was Re: Link for Jammie Dodgers)
In-Reply-To: <1096103861.1777.72059.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040925165543.12826.qmail@web51709.mail.yahoo.com>

I wasn't paying attention and missed most of the
discussion here about Jammie Dodgers (and honestly
still don't know what they are), but after seeing
McVitie's and Chinese groceries mentioned just a
couple of posts apart, I thought I'd share something:

I recently discovered that Chinese groceries often
stock McVitie's biscuits. The wrapper is bilingual, in
English and Chinese, but the biscuits inside are made
in Great Britain and are identical to the ones I had
there and coulden't find anywhere in the States. In
other words, yummy! and cheap, too. I paid $1.99 for a
package with about 25 biscuits in it, much cheaper
than the $4-6 I've seen smaller packages go for
online. I'm in Chinatown pretty often, so they've
become a staple in our house.

Tyler
Who now wishes he could find Alpen cereal in the
states. The British Alpen-not the inferior Canadian
version with identical packaging that suckered him
into buying FOUR boxes at Whole Foods last summer



RE:
> I just bought a tin yesterday at a local British Pub
(keep in mind
> that I'm in Minnesota). Cost me US$6.00 (3.34).

?!!!

How big a "tin" are we talking?  Whenever I've found
them they've 
been small plastic-wrapped packages, or occasionally
paper 
cylinders, in either case with about 12 biscuits. 
These are 
McVitie's.  Carr's makes the plain ones, though I
think they are a 
poor second to the chocolate-coated ones.  Chacun a
son gout.



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 25 17:54:33 2004
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:54:33 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <ciut0c+as26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj4bcp+1tu3@eGroups.com>

Last year(?) TLC posted a link to a Bennington, VT paper that had an
editorial about Banned Books Week (thank you, Heidi!) and I wrote to
the editor the letter I'll post below. I looked into the ALA's website
because I had a concern about a book being used in my daughter's class
and wanted to talk to the teacher about it, ironically, during Banned
Books Week. I know I've asked this question before, I'm just curious
about those of you who are parents and/or are involved with children:
Do you think children should have unlimited access to all literature?
Why or why not?

Beth
p.s. I did let my daughter read the book in question, I just wanted to
know how discussion would be handled. And I still think it's important
for parents to know as often as possible what their children are
reading and to try to read it, too, to be ready to discuss it in the
context of their own moral beliefs.

Dear Editor,

Please understand that I do /not/ advocate banning books. I simply
wish to point out that the statistics quoted: "There have already been
6,364 challenges posed to the American Library Association, and that
was only between the years of 1990 and 2000," do not take into account
the reasons behind a challenge. In researching the ALA's website last
year, I found that the ALA lumps a parent requesting a book be moved
from the children's to the adult section of a library in the same
category as those wanting to burn Harry Potter. In response to the
question from the media, "What if a child wants to check out Playboy
magazine?" librarians were told to answer that very few children would
want to check out material that was inappropriate for them. I think
that response is naive, at best.  Just as a movie theater owner would
not allow a six year old to buy his own ticket to a Restricted movie,
some literature best put "on the top shelf" until children are more
mature. I think the ALA does readers a disservice by thinking they can
not understand the difference. 




From joseph at kirtland.com  Sat Sep 25 18:52:27 2004
From: joseph at kirtland.com (Joe Bento)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:52:27 -0000
Subject: JKRowling site (spoilers!!)
In-Reply-To: <cinghr+o02h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj4epb+lo1v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dudemom_2000" > > > > B
> 
> BIG HINT
> 
> Look at your phone and see what letters the numbers spell they are:

I was curious about this...

Do telephones in the UK now have the alpha characters assigned to 
each number as American phones do?

With the world-wide usage of cell phones, perhaps dialing is pretty 
standard now, but back in the days of rotary dials, I dont *think* 
UK telephones had letter combinations assigned to the numbers.

Joe






From meidbh at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 25 19:15:44 2004
From: meidbh at yahoo.com (meidbh)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:15:44 -0000
Subject: doxie / spider help!!!
In-Reply-To: <ciul5h+3iv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj4g50+90ol@eGroups.com>

Sherry writes;
"I have the following things in the scrap book   
ancient drawings pg 2, 3, and 4
page of doodlings page 2 and very early page of philosopher's stone
 
so what am I missing and how do I get it?"

Meidbh replies:
You have yet to find
'Ancient Drawings page 1' ('Dragon Breeding for Pleasure and Profit' 
page)
and
'First Typed Manuscript of Philosopher's Stone'

I can't remember where I found these but if you do some detective 
work through this list I'm sure you'll find all the clues!

good luck,
Meidbh :-)




From spin01 at aol.com  Sat Sep 25 20:05:44 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:05:44 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj4bcp+1tu3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj4j2o+419s@eGroups.com>

Beth,  I do not agree with Banning Books.  I do however think it is a 
parents responsibility to make sure a child has what is age 
appropriate.  Harry Potter is a wonderful series.  However I do not 
think it is appropriate for children under perhaps the age of 7 or 
8.  That is the age when most children could follow the chapter type 
books.  My kids love video games.  I have an endless struggle with 
the 9 yr old who wants to play video games with an M (mature) rating 
on them.  I have tried to explain to my older boys and my husband 
that the rating is not just for language or just for violence but a 
combination of things.  The same goes for books.  I think children 
should be exposed to all forms of literature but I will not let mine 
have what is not appropriate for there level.  I think it is 
perfectly acceptable for a library to have playboys etc on a 
restricted shelf.  After all at least in the US you have to be 18 to 
purchase those types of magazines.  It might even be 21 now.  so why 
should a library be any different right?
sherry
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> wrote:
> Last year(?) TLC posted a link to a Bennington, VT paper that had an
> editorial about Banned Books Week (thank you, Heidi!) and I wrote to
> the editor the letter I'll post below. I looked into the ALA's 
website
> because I had a concern about a book being used in my daughter's 
class
> and wanted to talk to the teacher about it, ironically, during 
Banned
> Books Week. I know I've asked this question before, I'm just curious
> about those of you who are parents and/or are involved with 
children:
> Do you think children should have unlimited access to all 
literature?
> Why or why not?
> 
> Beth
> p.s. I did let my daughter read the book in question, I just wanted 
to
> know how discussion would be handled. And I still think it's 
important
> for parents to know as often as possible what their children are
> reading and to try to read it, too, to be ready to discuss it in the
> context of their own moral beliefs.
> 
> Dear Editor,
> 
> Please understand that I do /not/ advocate banning books. I simply
> wish to point out that the statistics quoted: "There have already 
been
> 6,364 challenges posed to the American Library Association, and that
> was only between the years of 1990 and 2000," do not take into 
account
> the reasons behind a challenge. In researching the ALA's website 
last
> year, I found that the ALA lumps a parent requesting a book be moved
> from the children's to the adult section of a library in the same
> category as those wanting to burn Harry Potter. In response to the
> question from the media, "What if a child wants to check out Playboy
> magazine?" librarians were told to answer that very few children 
would
> want to check out material that was inappropriate for them. I think
> that response is naive, at best.  Just as a movie theater owner 
would
> not allow a six year old to buy his own ticket to a Restricted 
movie,
> some literature best put "on the top shelf" until children are more
> mature. I think the ALA does readers a disservice by thinking they 
can
> not understand the difference.




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sat Sep 25 22:01:07 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 08:01:07 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj4j2o+419s@eGroups.com>
References: <cj4bcp+1tu3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <41567743.13637.35F4726@localhost>

On 25 Sep 2004 at 20:05, spinelli372003 wrote:

> Beth,  I do not agree with Banning Books.  I do however think it is a 
> parents responsibility to make sure a child has what is age 
> appropriate.  Harry Potter is a wonderful series.  However I do not 
> think it is appropriate for children under perhaps the age of 7 or 
> 8.  That is the age when most children could follow the chapter type 
> books.  My kids love video games.  I have an endless struggle with 
> the 9 yr old who wants to play video games with an M (mature) rating 
> on them.  I have tried to explain to my older boys and my husband 
> that the rating is not just for language or just for violence but a 
> combination of things.  The same goes for books.  I think children 
> should be exposed to all forms of literature but I will not let mine 
> have what is not appropriate for there level.  I think it is 
> perfectly acceptable for a library to have playboys etc on a 
> restricted shelf.  After all at least in the US you have to be 18 to 
> purchase those types of magazines.  It might even be 21 now.  so why 
> should a library be any different right?
> sherry

The thing is Sherry, I know kids who have read the Harry Potter 
books before the age of 5 - I even know of a couple who've read the 
first two books before they were three years old. Now these are 
fairly unusual kids - they are exceptionally and profoundly gifted 
- but I know a lot of moderately gifted kids - and there's one of 
those, on average, in every two classrooms - who could easily 
handle the Harry Potter books before they were seven.

If books are restricted because 'most' children aren't ready for 
them, it is extremely unfair to these children. A society where 
decisions are made based soley on what is best for the majority, is 
always going to be an extremely inequitable society.

Now, I agree entirely with your right as a parent to decide what 
your child reads, what computer games your child plays, etc. 
Because you know your child, and you are basing your decisions on 
that specific child and what that specific child is ready for. But 
there's a huge difference between a parent doing that as an 
individual looking at individual children, and their individual 
needs, and a public library making those decisions based on a 
hypothetical average child, without regards to the fact that 
there's a huge amount of deviation from that average around.

I grew up reading whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted - at least 
for the most part. I remember starting a new school at 7, and being 
told that I couldn't leave the picture book section of the school 
library until I was 8 - I'd been reading chapter books for about 4 
years at that stage, and I was horribly upset by this restriction 
(fortunately the librarian lifted it a week or so later), but that 
was my only experience with any restrictions. Throughout my entire 
childhood, on only one occasions, did I encounter a books that I 
have any reason for regretting encountering at that stage - and I 
was 15 at that time - and I did approach our school librarian and 
tell her about the book, because I knew she was recommending it (or 
rather the author) to students and obviously had no idea of its 
content. From then on, she started warning students who were 
borrowing it that it wasn't like the authors other books in the 
library - but it wasn't removed from the shelves.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From przepla at gmail.com  Sat Sep 25 22:51:13 2004
From: przepla at gmail.com (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:51:13 +0200
Subject: Another way to quickly search archives: gmail
Message-ID: <687a220904092515511ad52184@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

After a long hiatus I again have time to read HPfGU groups. And now I
use another solution to quickly search through the archives: Google.
I obtained gmail account and uploaded all mails I received in my
Thunderbird (mail client) using Gmail Loader program. Now I can use
famous Google search to search through HPfGU archives.

Such solution has some problems though.
I could upload only those mails which I already personally received.
Gmail account is only limited to 1 GB, and I already used over 47% of it ;-)
Nevertheless, if you can obtain Gmail account (it's still in beta,
thus invite only), and wish to have good searching capability, I would
recommend it.

Regards,
-- 
Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki



From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Sun Sep 26 02:19:34 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:19:34 EDT
Subject: Sarah
Message-ID: <1a6.2964be91.2e878136@aol.com>

>"erm...well fondant I suppose in a bourbon context is like sickly 
sweet chocolate cream, like in oreos (I think its oreos I'm thinking 
of).  a digestive biscuit is like an oaty crisp biscuit, not as well 
defined oaty as HobNobs, but more wholemealy.  Its difficult to 
describe - they're just such an ordinary part of life here, everyday 
kind of biscuits - the chocolate digestives are a bit more special.
Jaffa cake biscuit isn't a biscuit by the way its more like a sponge -
they aren't supposed to crunch.
Anything else I can give a very poor explanation for?
Sarah xx"<

Hi Sarah,
Couldn't remember if I thanked you for the above explanation.  :)  When you 
say "digetives" I think of things like Maalox that is a med taken to help with 
indigestion.  LOL  I had no idea what you meant, so thanks for explaining it 
to me.  :)  I'm still hunting for Jaffa Cakes ... met a friend for tea today 
and no one at the tea house knew what I was talking about when I inquired there! 
 Imagine!  Will continue with my quest to find jammie dodgers, jaffa cakes, 
and now, HobNobs.  :)


"Luna"


-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sad1199 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 26 05:35:26 2004
From: sad1199 at yahoo.com (sad1199)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 05:35:26 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj4bcp+1tu3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj5keu+4im1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> 
wrote:
> Last year(?) TLC posted a link to a Bennington, VT paper that had 
an
> editorial about Banned Books Week (thank you, Heidi!) and I wrote 
to
> the editor the letter I'll post below. I looked into the ALA's 
website
> because I had a concern about a book being used in my daughter's 
class
> and wanted to talk to the teacher about it, ironically, during 
Banned
> Books Week. I know I've asked this question before, I'm just 
curious
> about those of you who are parents and/or are involved with 
children:
> Do you think children should have unlimited access to all 
literature?
> Why or why not?
> 
> Beth
> p.s. I did let my daughter read the book in question, I just 
wanted to
> know how discussion would be handled. And I still think it's 
important
> for parents to know as often as possible what their children are
> reading and to try to read it, too, to be ready to discuss it in 
the
> context of their own moral beliefs.
> 
> Dear Editor,
> 
> Please understand that I do /not/ advocate banning books. I simply
> wish to point out that the statistics quoted: "There have already 
been
> 6,364 challenges posed to the American Library Association, and 
that
> was only between the years of 1990 and 2000," do not take into 
account
> the reasons behind a challenge. In researching the ALA's website 
last
> year, I found that the ALA lumps a parent requesting a book be 
moved
> from the children's to the adult section of a library in the same
> category as those wanting to burn Harry Potter. In response to the
> question from the media, "What if a child wants to check out 
Playboy
> magazine?" librarians were told to answer that very few children 
would
> want to check out material that was inappropriate for them. I think
> that response is naive, at best.  Just as a movie theater owner 
would
> not allow a six year old to buy his own ticket to a Restricted 
movie,
> some literature best put "on the top shelf" until children are more
> mature. I think the ALA does readers a disservice by thinking they 
can
> not understand the difference.

sad1199 here: 

    The problems I have with book banning are:

1.) It goes against my constitutional rights.

2.) It takes away MY RESPONSIBILITY as a parent! I just don't get 
the parents who want books banned so their children won't read them. 
If you don't want your children to read something it is your 
responsibility as a parent to tell them why they are not allowed to 
read it. Now, I know parents are going to say but, they'll just read 
it somewhere else. Again, it is the parents responsibility to parent 
their children. If these parents are doing their job sufficiently 
then they should have no worries that their children would read the 
books elsewhere. My children have very rigid rules and I have 
witnessed them (unknown to them) decide not to break those rules 
when a friend suggests something they are not allowed to do. 

    I do edit my children's reading lists BUT!!!! There is not one 
book on the banned books list from 1990 - 2000 that I would not 
allow my children to read! Of course, my six year old would not 
read 'The Outsiders' but only because he wouldn't be able to 
comprehend the words or the story line. So, I as a parent buy him 
books that he can read and understand and enjoy. There is a very 
funny series called Captain Underpants that my two boys love. I was 
actually surprised that it was not on the list because its quite 
disgusting and gross but that does not mean it should be banned. 

   I already own quite a few books on the recent top 100 list and I 
have this idea to buy every book on it. Just for personal spite, you 
know...

"When an old man dies a library burns to the ground."   sad1199
 




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 26 14:44:34 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:44:34 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj5keu+4im1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj6kki+pub2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sad1199" <sad1199 at y...> wrote:

> Of course, my six year old would not 
> read 'The Outsiders' but only because he wouldn't be able to 
> comprehend the words or the story line. So, I as a parent buy him 
> books that he can read and understand and enjoy.

As a practical matter, this approach seems to work very well.  By the
time my children have the skill to read a book, they also have the
ability to understand and evaluate the concepts it contains, at least
partially (and really, there is no one who can analyse every book they
read *completely*).

Anyway, I bet plenty of you will agree with me, that reading a certain
amount of material that's "not good for you" is good for you.  Yes?

Annemehr





From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 26 15:01:22 2004
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:01:22 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj6kki+pub2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj6lk2+4t3r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> As a practical matter, this approach seems to work very well.  By 
the
> time my children have the skill to read a book, they also have the
> ability to understand and evaluate the concepts it contains, at 
least
> partially (and really, there is no one who can analyse every book 
they
> read *completely*).
> 
> Anyway, I bet plenty of you will agree with me, that reading a 
certain
> amount of material that's "not good for you" is good for you.  Yes?


Jen: Yes! And reading things that bother you, challenge your 
worldview and make you uncomfortable, too. I've read certain books 
and seen certain movies that I wouldn't re-visit, but sometimes 
those are the ones that stay with me the longest, because it takes 
so much effort to get past fear of the unknown and find a way to 
reconcile new information with my own belief system. I hope the 
message I'm getting through to my son with both books and TV shows 
is that the important part is *critical thinking* about any 
information you take in, whatever the source. 




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 26 15:02:43 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 26 Sep 2004 15:02:43 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1096210963.18.9031.m23@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 

Hope to see you there! 

 





From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 26 18:25:19 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:25:19 -0000
Subject: Fondant and digestives WAS Re: Sarah
In-Reply-To: <1a6.2964be91.2e878136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cj71if+k6qe@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, LunaLovesHarry at a... wrote:
> >"erm...well fondant I suppose in a bourbon context is like sickly 
> sweet chocolate cream, like in oreos (I think its oreos I'm 
thinking 
> of).  a digestive biscuit is like an oaty crisp biscuit, not as 
well 
> defined oaty as HobNobs, but more wholemealy.  Its difficult to 
> describe - they're just such an ordinary part of life here, 
everyday 
> kind of biscuits - the chocolate digestives are a bit more special.
> Jaffa cake biscuit isn't a biscuit by the way its more like a 
sponge -
> they aren't supposed to crunch.
> Anything else I can give a very poor explanation for?
> Sarah xx"<
> 

As luck would have it, I was wtching the cookingchannel, where they 
were discussing the making of chocolate candies.  "Fondant" is an 
extra fine-grain, extra smooth sugar used to make those candy creams. 
Score one for Sarah.

I have a definition for digestives that is completely different from 
the "digestive biscuit" yhou have been discussin.  Certain herbs aid 
in the digestive process, either by popular opinion or in actual 
medical fact, theough it is the opinion that is the more important.  
At the beginning, diners simply chewed the herb in question.  Such 
herbs are peppermint, spearmint, flat parsely, liquorice, and local 
secrets.  It is an easy leap from here to the after-dinner int, and 
now we have an explanation other than fresh breath, and even to the 
after-dinner cordials: creme de menthe, pernod, Benedictine-- even 
the vile Chartreuse.

To this day it is a normal dish on the Russian dining table that 
contains fresh herbs ("trava" or "grass" in Russian) for its 
digestive properties, and for its vitamin content.

Haggridd, who is fonder of stingers (two parts brandy, one part creme 
de menthe) than he is of fondant.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 26 18:28:55 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:28:55 -0000
Subject: ... quickly search archives: gmail +GOOGLE
In-Reply-To: <687a220904092515511ad52184@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cj71p7+tshd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Przemyslaw Plaskowicki
<przepla at g...> wrote:
> Hello,
> ...
> I obtained gmail account and uploaded all mails I received in my
> Thunderbird (mail client) using Gmail Loader program. Now I can use
> famous Google search to search through HPfGU archives.
> 
> Such solution has some problems though.
> I could upload only those mails which I already personally received.
> Gmail account is only limited to 1 GB, and I already used over 47%
of it ;-)
>
> Regards,
> -- 
> Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki

bboyminn:

That's odd, I just added up the archives that I've downloaded, and in
un-ZIPped format, post 0->59,000 only add up to 140Mb. I'm confident
that the entire archive up to the current 68,000 will come in at under
200Mb. You must have tons of old emails stored there too.

Although, your suggestion of Google brings up an interesting thought.
It is possible to add Google search to your own personal website so
that when you instigate a search, Google just searchs that personal site.
 
I'm under the impression that this is a free service offered by
Google. I think the idea is that if Google is on the page and you want
to expand the search to the web in general, you are more likely to use
their search engine. Also, I suspect the results page has the same
advertising as any Google results page. 

Too bad, we don't have a webspace that would automatically post the
Digest format of this group. It wouldn't have to post the full text
file, just a list of links to the text files. That is, the main screen
wouldn't be hundreds of megabytes of text, but a list of the Digest
files. Then you could use Google to search, which will allow quite
complex search parameters to search out which Digest contained the
info you were looking for. I think the Digests are one weeks worth of
post, aren't they? 

Trouble is, for a webspace with that much storage and bandwidth, you
would probably have to pay, and that would be about $100/year, plus,
someone to maintain it. Although, it wouldn't have to be anything
fancy. Just a plain screen with a file list and a Google search box.

I think there are other services that have this feature too, 'Quick
Quote Quill' uses the ATOMZ search engine.

It's a thought; perhaps a project for some rich ambitious person.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 27 00:04:44 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:04:44 -0000
Subject: Banned books - another question
Message-ID: <cj7les+ehva@eGroups.com>

I share most people's bemusement at the titles that have been 
challenged (Tom Sawyer?  What could be more all-American than 
that?).  I also support the arguments that have been put forward 
about children and their parents normally being the arbiters, rather 
than others.

However, I'm a little puzzled (perhaps because, as an un-American, I 
get by without a constitution and we don't seem to have 
this 'challenging' phenomenon here in the UK) as to what the aim of 
the ALA is on this issue.

As I understand it, it is not the government, or some official body, 
that tries to get books removed from library shelves - this is 
ordinary citizens making a challenge to their (local?) libraries.

So what does ALA want?  To take away the right to challenge the 
material on library shelves?  Or just to educate the population so 
that they use that right in a different way?  What is the purpose of 
the right existing at all?  If (as someone suggested) having a 
book 'banned' (from libraries, of course, not shops or homes) is a 
breach of constitutional rights, how can the right to challenge be 
contitutional?

Given that the USA has a population of over 300 million, and there 
are perhaps a few thousand (mostly failed) challenges a year, yes, 
the ALA may be right that there are too many of them, but the 
overwhelming impression left is that the USA does indeed do what it 
says on the tin - support freedom of speech and the freedom to read.

David




From jmmears at comcast.net  Mon Sep 27 03:23:29 2004
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:23:29 -0000
Subject: Banned books - another question
In-Reply-To: <cj7les+ehva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj813h+mvar@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

<snip> 
> However, I'm a little puzzled (perhaps because, as an un-American, 
I 
> get by without a constitution and we don't seem to have 
> this 'challenging' phenomenon here in the UK) as to what the aim 
of 
> the ALA is on this issue.
> 
> As I understand it, it is not the government, or some official 
body, 
> that tries to get books removed from library shelves - this is 
> ordinary citizens making a challenge to their (local?) libraries.
> 
> So what does ALA want?  To take away the right to challenge the 
> material on library shelves?  Or just to educate the population so 
> that they use that right in a different way?  What is the purpose 
of 
> the right existing at all?  If (as someone suggested) having a 
> book 'banned' (from libraries, of course, not shops or homes) is a 
> breach of constitutional rights, how can the right to challenge be 
> contitutional?
> 
> Given that the USA has a population of over 300 million, and there 
> are perhaps a few thousand (mostly failed) challenges a year, yes, 
> the ALA may be right that there are too many of them, but the 
> overwhelming impression left is that the USA does indeed do what 
it 
> says on the tin - support freedom of speech and the freedom to 
read.


Thanks David, I had the same thoughts myself.  The list of books on 
the "banned" list haven't been banned at all, for the most part.  As 
I understand it, they are ones who have been challenged most 
frequently, but very few (if any) have actually been removed from 
any library shelves anywhere in the US.

The mere suggestion of books being banned is sure to excite the 
passions of anyone who loves books and reading.  However, the notion 
that any citizen, even a total crackpot, has the right to file a 
challenge and the opportunity to make his case supporting the 
challenge, doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me (particularly 
since it rarely results in any meaningful action). It just seems 
like the usual, noisy democracy in action.  I can't help but wonder 
what the ALA is trying to accomplish in having a "Banned Books Week" 
at all.  It seems slightly misleading to me.

Is there any mechanism in the UK, or any other countries outside the 
US, for citizens to register a complaint about materials available 
in public or school libraries?  If so, I wonder if any records are 
kept for the purpose of tracking which books receive the most 
challenges.  It would be interesting to see how this sort of thing 
is handled else where.  My suspicion is that there is either no 
formal process for these sorts of challenges, or that other 
countries simply don't bother with tracking and reporting the 
results to the public, but of course, I have no evidence to support 
this.

Jo Serenadust, curious




From annegirl11 at juno.com  Mon Sep 27 03:40:54 2004
From: annegirl11 at juno.com (annegirl11 at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:40:54 -0400
Subject: FF REC: "The Incident at 12 Grimmauld Place" by Kate Bolin
Message-ID: <20040926.234055.184.1.annegirl11@juno.com>

A few weeks ago on the main list, we were talking about how not one of us
would step a toe in 12 Grimmauld Place for all the galleons in Gringots
-- but that it would make a great haunted house for Halloween. Kate Bolin
agrees. Check this story out - it scared the hell out of me.

"The Incident at 12 Grimmauld Place" by Kate Bolin
http://www.dymphna.net/fanfic/grimmauld.html

Aura

~*~
"I'm a werewolf."
"Are you fucking serious?!"
"Yes. That too."
- someone's lj icon        
Fanfic and original stuff at www.homepage-host.uni.cc/w/ofnone




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 27 04:26:55 2004
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:26:55 -0600
Subject: fan fic
In-Reply-To: <cj813h+mvar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c4a44a$39204d90$0400a8c0@pensive>

Hi all,

i've been wanting to start reading some HP fan fiction.  Can people here
recommend several different places to find some?  I would be interested in
all types, ... deep, intense, funny, mushy, adult content ... whatever.  I'd
just like to be able to browse the sites and find some things.  Thanks for
any ideas.

Sherry
email and MSN messenger:
sherriola at earthlink.net 




From redina at silverbloom.net  Mon Sep 27 07:20:45 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic
In-Reply-To: <001f01c4a44a$39204d90$0400a8c0@pensive>
References: <cj813h+mvar@eGroups.com>
    <001f01c4a44a$39204d90$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <1630.4.47.27.203.1096269645.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Still having some internet problems but power is back up!  This time it
was only down for ten hours for a cat1 hurricane (last time was fourteen
hours).  Kudos to FL power employees.

Sherry Gomes said:

> i've been wanting to start reading some HP fan fiction.  Can people here
> recommend several different places to find some?  I would be interested in
> all types, ... deep, intense, funny, mushy, adult content ... whatever.
> I'd
> just like to be able to browse the sites and find some things.  Thanks for
> any ideas.

Heterosexual or homosexual (AKA slash) preferences?  One place you can
start is fictionalley.org.

The adult-rated content is on restrictedsection.org.

Dina




From elrond at paradise.net.nz  Mon Sep 27 07:48:15 2004
From: elrond at paradise.net.nz (Michael Chance)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:48:15 +1200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic
References: <001f01c4a44a$39204d90$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <002201c4a466$5f451980$f15f4fcb@locxvcym>

From: "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at earthlink.net>


> Hi all,
>
> i've been wanting to start reading some HP fan fiction.  Can people here
> recommend several different places to find some?  I would be interested in
> all types, ... deep, intense, funny, mushy, adult content ... whatever.
I'd
> just like to be able to browse the sites and find some things.  Thanks for
> any ideas.
>
If you don't mind/like slash you could try the recs in the HP section of my
site at http://chance.slashcity.net/ The pairings are rather unconventional
though :) I do highly recommend the story "Poppet", despite the Snape/Hagrid
pairing it is a wonderful & amusing story... (There is also the Snape/Lupin
fuh-q-fest at http://chance.slashcity.net/masterandthewolf/ which has a
large number of stories, by different authors).

Michael




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 27 13:02:00 2004
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 07:02:00 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic
In-Reply-To: <1630.4.47.27.203.1096269645.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c4a492$2dbd07c0$0400a8c0@pensive>

Thanks.  I don't care at this point about content, just wanting to browse.
I didn't mean to say that I wanted to read only adult content stuff, but
that I didn't not want to read anything with adult content.  Oh my, did I
just write that sentence?  My English professors will take back my grade.
anyway, I just want to check out all styles to see what's out there and if I
like any of it.  i've never read too much fan fiction of any sort.  thanks
for the recommendations.

Sherry


-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Lerret [mailto:redina at silverbloom.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 1:21 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic


Still having some internet problems but power is back up!  This time it
was only down for ten hours for a cat1 hurricane (last time was fourteen
hours).  Kudos to FL power employees.

Sherry Gomes said:

> i've been wanting to start reading some HP fan fiction.  Can people here
> recommend several different places to find some?  I would be interested in
> all types, ... deep, intense, funny, mushy, adult content ... whatever.
> I'd
> just like to be able to browse the sites and find some things.  Thanks for
> any ideas.

Heterosexual or homosexual (AKA slash) preferences?  One place you can
start is fictionalley.org.

The adult-rated content is on restrictedsection.org.

Dina




________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




From spin01 at aol.com  Mon Sep 27 13:13:03 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:13:03 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <41567743.13637.35F4726@localhost>
Message-ID: <cj93kv+pme8@eGroups.com>

I understand all of your points.  However I still hold firm to my 
belief that just because something is out there it shouldn't be 
accessable to all. Again it is up to the parent to give a child 
something that he/she feels is appropriate.  my son at 9 could read a 
porn magazine.  Does that mean it is something acceptable?  NO.  My 
son at 9 could read a college text book.  again is it something that 
he needs to see or read at that age?  Children are capable of doing 
many things but that does not mean they are good for them.  Going by 
your belief it would follow that your also would agree that having 
sex at 12 and procreating was ok because biologically they were 
able?  I still think it is up to a childs parent to decide if they 
were old enough.  Not up to the librarian to decide.  and rules are 
there for the health and safety of the population at large.  I have a 
hard time with the few parents who have the super bright children 
demanding that the rest of the world meet their demands.  I ahve a 
hard time with 11 yr old kids in college.   Yes there should be 
material and processes in place for them but it doesn't mean that the 
world should drop all of the tried and working plans.  The world is 
as my grandmother would say "going to hell in a handbasket" because 
so many restrictions and rules that we used to live by have dropped 
by the wayside.  I think if more parents were involved in what there 
child were doing rather than just giving a blanket "ITS OK TO DO WHAT 
YOU WANT" any time any place we would not have as many problems.  
sherry <<who will now wait for the computer to blow up from the 
outrage over this post lol>>
 --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2004 at 20:05, spinelli372003 wrote:
> 
> > Beth,  I do not agree with Banning Books.  I do however think it 
is a 
> > parents responsibility to make sure a child has what is age 
> > appropriate.  Harry Potter is a wonderful series.  However I do 
not 
> > think it is appropriate for children under perhaps the age of 7 
or 
> > 8.  That is the age when most children could follow the chapter 
type 
> > books.  My kids love video games.  I have an endless struggle 
with 
> > the 9 yr old who wants to play video games with an M (mature) 
rating 
> > on them.  I have tried to explain to my older boys and my husband 
> > that the rating is not just for language or just for violence but 
a 
> > combination of things.  The same goes for books.  I think 
children 
> > should be exposed to all forms of literature but I will not let 
mine 
> > have what is not appropriate for there level.  I think it is 
> > perfectly acceptable for a library to have playboys etc on a 
> > restricted shelf.  After all at least in the US you have to be 18 
to 
> > purchase those types of magazines.  It might even be 21 now.  so 
why 
> > should a library be any different right?
> > sherry
> 
> The thing is Sherry, I know kids who have read the Harry Potter 
> books before the age of 5 - I even know of a couple who've read the 
> first two books before they were three years old. Now these are 
> fairly unusual kids - they are exceptionally and profoundly gifted 
> - but I know a lot of moderately gifted kids - and there's one of 
> those, on average, in every two classrooms - who could easily 
> handle the Harry Potter books before they were seven.
> 
> If books are restricted because 'most' children aren't ready for 
> them, it is extremely unfair to these children. A society where 
> decisions are made based soley on what is best for the majority, is 
> always going to be an extremely inequitable society.
> 
> Now, I agree entirely with your right as a parent to decide what 
> your child reads, what computer games your child plays, etc. 
> Because you know your child, and you are basing your decisions on 
> that specific child and what that specific child is ready for. But 
> there's a huge difference between a parent doing that as an 
> individual looking at individual children, and their individual 
> needs, and a public library making those decisions based on a 
> hypothetical average child, without regards to the fact that 
> there's a huge amount of deviation from that average around.
> 
> I grew up reading whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted - at least 
> for the most part. I remember starting a new school at 7, and being 
> told that I couldn't leave the picture book section of the school 
> library until I was 8 - I'd been reading chapter books for about 4 
> years at that stage, and I was horribly upset by this restriction 
> (fortunately the librarian lifted it a week or so later), but that 
> was my only experience with any restrictions. Throughout my entire 
> childhood, on only one occasions, did I encounter a books that I 
> have any reason for regretting encountering at that stage - and I 
> was 15 at that time - and I did approach our school librarian and 
> tell her about the book, because I knew she was recommending it (or 
> rather the author) to students and obviously had no idea of its 
> content. From then on, she started warning students who were 
> borrowing it that it wasn't like the authors other books in the 
> library - but it wasn't removed from the shelves.
> 
> 
> Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
> Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
> (ISTJ)       | drednort at a... | ICQ: 6898200 
> "You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
> thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
> facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
> uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
> need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
> Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From redina at silverbloom.net  Mon Sep 27 14:03:26 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:03:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: And 28 Days Later RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic
Message-ID: <2063.4.47.27.203.1096293806.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Sherry Gomes said:

> Thanks.  I don't care at this point about content, just wanting to browse.
> I didn't mean to say that I wanted to read only adult content stuff, but
> that I didn't not want to read anything with adult content.  Oh my, did I

No prob.  FictionAlley has G through R-ratings (or general to mature
audience) with no pairings to more [relation]ships than port.  In other
words, a fairly good starting point.

Although, the largest HP fanfic site is fanfiction.net (AKA the Pit of
Voles - phonetic play on 'pitifuls').


> like any of it.  i've never read too much fan fiction of any sort.  thanks

Hm, my fandom progression was movies, fan fiction, and then audio books. 
One of these days, I may actually read the books.

Anyway, just some suggestions that are neither heterosexual nor
homosexual/slash specific since you requested a variety.  Once you decide
on preferences, you can narrow your request down because there are
*hundreds* of HP fanfic sites and pretty much every pairing has been done.


To combine posts...

The internet is nifty in making you wonder if some things exist.

For example, I was recently watching 28 Days Later, and aside from the
blood and gore of 'Killer Zombies Gone Wild' (tm) in the UK, there was an
underlying homoerotic vibe between Jim (Cillian Murphy) and Major Henry
West (Christopher Eccleston).  Being a slasher and thinking I couldn't be
the only one to miss such an *obvious* aspect, I went on the search for 28
Days Later slash and actually found a couple slash fics.

As much as I love watching Alan Rickman, Eccleston could've also rawked as
Snape.  I think I have Othello (2002 - modern version) somewhere on tape
since I dig Eamonn Walker.  Anyway, Eccleston was also in Othello and he
did this wickedly cool Iago.

And yep, Brendan Gleeson would be the one from 28 Days Later to land an HP
role as Moody.  Although, Eccleston and Ralph Fiennes do have a bit of a
resemblence to each other based on IMDB's current pics up:

Eccleston - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001172/
Fiennes - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000146/

Dina





From saitaina at frontiernet.net  Mon Sep 27 14:05:22 2004
From: saitaina at frontiernet.net (Saitaina)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 07:05:22 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic
References: <000b01c4a492$2dbd07c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <029601c4a49b$08f3d460$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>

As Dina said, the best place to find a
ton of fanfiction is, FictionAlley.org.
But as you're new to the fanfiction
world, I thought I'd make searching FA
a little easier.

The fastest way to find fics on the
side is the following links, where most
of the stories are broken down to find
exactly what you're looking for--

'Crusing--where fics are separated by
'ship or pairing (or lack there of).
Here you can find your favorite
pairings, and some you might have never
thought
about.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fic
tionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s
=&forumid=14

The Lead--This is where you can find
the lead you want for your story, be it
Neville Longbottom, Harry Potter or
Peter
Pettigrew.--http://www.fictionalley.org
/fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.p
hp?s=&forumid=15

What's Coming Will Come--Interested in
a particular era?  Want to read more
about the Founders, the Marauders or
even AU's?  This is your
thread.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fi
ctionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?
s=&forumid=16

The Tremendous List of Completed,
Novel-Length Fics--This is where the
nice long finished fic links live.
Excellent for when you REALLY don't
want a work in
progress.--http://www.fictionalley.org/
fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.ph
p?s=&forumid=85

Location, Location, Location--Fics
sorted by WHERE they take
place.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fic
tionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s
=&forumid=139

Back in Giles' Day...--Where the Harry
Potter Crossover links
live.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fict
ionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=
&forumid=98

You can also use the Point Me page to
search for certain terms amongst fics,
read author summaries in the review
boards, or just randomly click as I do
when bored (found some intrusting fics
that way...).

Many authors have fics in more then one
house.  Remember, each house is given
to a different category of what you'll
find.  Riddikulas is for humor, Astro
Tower for Romance, Schnoogle for novel
length (ie: really long) and The Dark
Arts for pretty much everything else
(though they still hold favor to the
dark, dramatic, angst we all
occasionally love).

I'm going to take a quick moment and
shamelessly say that I have over thirty
fics in all our houses so if you want,
check me out.  Usually people find
something they like under my name.

But most of all, just enjoy it.
There's something for everyone out
there and you'll eventually find what
you like/love.

Saitaina
****
"You don't know my father," Malfoy
said. "He'd still kill me. He'd kill me
and he'd stuff me, and he'd say, 'Yes,
this is Draco. He's my only heir. He's
a bit quiet recently, I don't think he
likes living in this glass case.'"

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on
all this and plow face-first into a
tree because I was looking the wrong
bloody way. And I'll still be having a
better day than I am today."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Mon Sep 27 14:16:43 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:16:43 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj93kv+pme8@eGroups.com>
References: <41567743.13637.35F4726@localhost>
Message-ID: <4158AD6B.5377.2FDD8F@localhost>

On 27 Sep 2004 at 13:13, spinelli372003 wrote:

> I understand all of your points.  However I still hold firm to my 
> belief that just because something is out there it shouldn't be 
> accessable to all. Again it is up to the parent to give a child 
> something that he/she feels is appropriate.  my son at 9 could read a 
> porn magazine.  Does that mean it is something acceptable?  NO.  My 
> son at 9 could read a college text book.  again is it something that 
> he needs to see or read at that age?  Children are capable of doing 
> many things but that does not mean they are good for them.  Going by 
> your belief it would follow that your also would agree that having 
> sex at 12 and procreating was ok because biologically they were 
> able?  

No, it wouldn't.

Because it is exceptionally unlikely (probably impossible) that a 
child of 12, no matter how intelligent that child was, is 
emotionally ready for the responsibilities inherent in a sexual 
relationship, and even more unlikely that they are ready in terms 
of emotional maturity for the responsibilities of parenthood.

But emotional factors, while important, are only one part of the 
equation in any decision. Intellectual factors are important as 
well.

The kids I work with have the fundamental need to have access to 
material they are intellectually ready for. If they do not have 
this access, they tend to be very prone to developing high levels 
of depressive illness, and they incur a serious danger of 
significant educational underachievement, along with a host of 
other potential educational, social, and emotional problems.

It is not OK to deprive these children of the opportunities they 
need access to to be emotionally and educationally healthy.

If a book is taken off a library shelf nobody is able to use that 
library to access the book. Everybody's rights are restricted.

If the book is on the shelf, nobody is forced to borrow it, nobody 
is forced to read it, and nobody is forced to allow their child to 
read it if in their judgement their child is not ready to read it.

> I still think it is up to a childs parent to decide if they 
> were old enough.  Not up to the librarian to decide.  and rules are 
> there for the health and safety of the population at large.  I have a 
> hard time with the few parents who have the super bright children 
> demanding that the rest of the world meet their demands.  
I ahve a 
> hard time with 11 yr old kids in college.   Yes there should be 
> material and processes in place for them but it doesn't mean that the 
> world should drop all of the tried and working plans.

All children should be entitled to an education that meets their 
educational needs.

Attitudes like those you express here, killed friends of mine - 
driven to suicide because the education system refused to work to 
meet their needs. Across the western world each year, literally 
thosuands of these children develop serious depressive illness 
because they are denied the education they need to have the same 
chance as any other child to be happy and healthy.

If anyone suggested that black parents were wrong to demand 
appropriate education for their children, that person would be 
labelled a racist bigot. If anyone suggested the parents of 
disabled children were wrong to demand appropriate education to 
meet their children'd educational needs, they would be labelled a 
bigot. You have a problem with 11 year old children in college - 
well, I have a problem with 11 year old children who are reading 
Tolstoy being told they have to spend 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, 
40 or more weeks a year having to 'learn' how to spell the word 
'squirrel' - something many of them could do at the age of 5 or 
younger.

Yes, there are limits to what can be done for these children. The 
real world imposes real financial restraints that means there is 
competition for resources, and often after more pressing needs are 
dealt with, there may not be enough money left to give these kids 
what they need. If prioritising means that other needs need to be 
put first, that's fine.

But allowing kids access to appropriate books for their reading 
level, and their level of understanding, and their level of 
maturity doesn't cost any extra than deciding they should only have 
access to books aimed at the theoretical 'average' child of their 
age.

Every child is entitled to the same dignity and respect of having 
their individual educational needs met wherever it is possible to 
do so. You may have a problem with that - but it's a matter of 
basic human justice.

I agree that it is up to the child's parents to decide whether a 
child should have access to a particular book or not. But guess 
what - parents can only make that decision if the books are 
available. If there are books on your libraries shelf that you do 
not want your children to read it is your responsibility as a 
parent to tell your children that, and it is your responsibility as 
a parent to work to raise children who will respect and obey your 
instructions and wishes.

As you say, it is *not* up to the librarian to make these decisions 
- but if a librarian chooses not to put a particular book on a 
shelf, they *are* making these decisions. If it is truly the 
parents job to decide, then the books need to be there so the 
parents can exercise that judgement.

If a parent judges that their seven year old child is ready for 
'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix' and the librarian has 
decided that book should not be available to children under ten, 
the librarian is impinging on the parents rights and prerogatives.

Would I let a 9 year old in my care read pornography? No, I 
wouldn't - or rather, there hasn't been a single 9 year old of my 
acquaintance including some who are at college level education who 
I think would be ready emotionally to deal with that material. But 
would I let a 9 year old in my care read a college level textbook? 
Yes, I would - and I have if that is something they want to do - 
and some of these kids do. Their parents could overrule me, of 
course - but in as far as it's my decision, with their knowledge 
and approval, I most certainly would let a child that age read 
adult level books quite freely unless there was specific content 
they were unlikely to be emotionally ready for.

Does a 9 year old *need* to read a college level textbook? It 
depends on how you define need. It's unlikely he or she is going to 
need access to the specific information in any given book - but if 
you have a profoundly gifted child who craves the chance to engage 
their mind with material that they find intellectually challenging, 
then that can be a real need, and if that need is not met, these 
kids can - and often do - switch off from learning. They lose 
interest in education - at any level.

>  The world is 
> as my grandmother would say "going to hell in a handbasket" because 
> so many restrictions and rules that we used to live by have dropped 
> by the wayside.  I think if more parents were involved in what there 
> child were doing rather than just giving a blanket "ITS OK TO DO WHAT 
> YOU WANT" any time any place we would not have as many problems.  
> sherry <<who will now wait for the computer to blow up from the 
> outrage over this post lol>>

The point is Sherry, I completely support your right as a parent to 
impose any rules and restrictions you want to on your children. I 
fully support your right to be highly involved in what your 
children do. I fully agree that more parents *should* be involved 
in what their child is doing - and that is what I want to happen 
here.

I want parents to be guiding what their children read.

I want parents to be telling their children what rules they expect 
their child to live by.

I want parents to be the ones who take responsibility for what 
*their* child is reading, and I want the parents to be the ones who 
make the decisions about what their individual child has access to.

I don't want these decisions placed in the hands of librarians. And 
when people say a library should restrict access to particular 
books, that is purely and simply passing the buck away from parents 
to another body.

It's giving parents an excuse not to do their job.




Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 27 14:41:04 2004
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:41:04 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic
In-Reply-To: <029601c4a49b$08f3d460$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <002001c4a4a0$0575def0$0400a8c0@pensive>

Oh, thank you.  This is great.  Gives me some great starting places.  I
really appreciate it.

I will definitely check out your stories, as I always enjoy reading your
posts.

Sherry
email and MSN messenger:
sherriola at earthlink.net 

-----Original Message-----
From: Saitaina [mailto:saitaina at frontiernet.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:05 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fan fic


As Dina said, the best place to find a
ton of fanfiction is, FictionAlley.org.
But as you're new to the fanfiction
world, I thought I'd make searching FA
a little easier.

The fastest way to find fics on the
side is the following links, where most
of the stories are broken down to find
exactly what you're looking for--

'Crusing--where fics are separated by
'ship or pairing (or lack there of).
Here you can find your favorite
pairings, and some you might have never
thought
about.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fic
tionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s
=&forumid=14

The Lead--This is where you can find
the lead you want for your story, be it
Neville Longbottom, Harry Potter or
Peter
Pettigrew.--http://www.fictionalley.org
/fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.p
hp?s=&forumid=15

What's Coming Will Come--Interested in
a particular era?  Want to read more
about the Founders, the Marauders or
even AU's?  This is your
thread.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fi
ctionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?
s=&forumid=16

The Tremendous List of Completed,
Novel-Length Fics--This is where the
nice long finished fic links live.
Excellent for when you REALLY don't
want a work in
progress.--http://www.fictionalley.org/
fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.ph
p?s=&forumid=85

Location, Location, Location--Fics
sorted by WHERE they take
place.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fic
tionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s
=&forumid=139

Back in Giles' Day...--Where the Harry
Potter Crossover links
live.--http://www.fictionalley.org/fict
ionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=
&forumid=98

You can also use the Point Me page to
search for certain terms amongst fics,
read author summaries in the review
boards, or just randomly click as I do
when bored (found some intrusting fics
that way...).

Many authors have fics in more then one
house.  Remember, each house is given
to a different category of what you'll
find.  Riddikulas is for humor, Astro
Tower for Romance, Schnoogle for novel
length (ie: really long) and The Dark
Arts for pretty much everything else
(though they still hold favor to the
dark, dramatic, angst we all
occasionally love).

I'm going to take a quick moment and
shamelessly say that I have over thirty
fics in all our houses so if you want,
check me out.  Usually people find
something they like under my name.

But most of all, just enjoy it.
There's something for everyone out
there and you'll eventually find what
you like/love.

Saitaina
****
"You don't know my father," Malfoy
said. "He'd still kill me. He'd kill me
and he'd stuff me, and he'd say, 'Yes,
this is Draco. He's my only heir. He's
a bit quiet recently, I don't think he
likes living in this glass case.'"

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on
all this and plow face-first into a
tree because I was looking the wrong
bloody way. And I'll still be having a
better day than I am today."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Mon Sep 27 14:41:10 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:41:10 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <4158AD6B.5377.2FDD8F@localhost>
References: <cj93kv+pme8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4158B326.10696.46402E@localhost>

On 28 Sep 2004 at 0:16, Shaun Hately wrote:

> well, I have a problem with 11 year old children who are reading 
> Tolstoy being told they have to spend 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, 
> 40 or more weeks a year having to 'learn' how to spell the word 
> 'squirrel' - something many of them could do at the age of 5 or 
> younger.

The following article probably won't be up for much longer but is 
worth reading for anyone who wants to understand what life can be 
like for gifted children in schools and why we need to deal with 
these issues, and how we can:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040927-699423-
1,00.html

(The URL will need to be cut and pasted).

It's based on a very new report, and it's quite a significant 
article about what is going on, and why neglecting these kids needs 
is a very bad idea.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From spin01 at aol.com  Mon Sep 27 16:23:14 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:23:14 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <4158AD6B.5377.2FDD8F@localhost>
Message-ID: <cj9epi+un0p@eGroups.com>

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I do not 
agree with books being banned.  At all in any way shape or form.  I 
do however think that a parent is ultimately responsible for a childs 
reading material.  Whether he signs the form at the library saying 
yes he may have acess to the whole library or whether he says only 
the childrens section.  It is the parents choice.  I think it is 
important that the world not take a parents rights away.  and leaving 
everything out there for the child to choose at such a young age is 
for me not appropriate.  I don't care how advance a child is there 
are some things that he/she does not need access to.  Being on a 
restricted shelf does not mean a child can not have them.  it means a 
child needs the parents permission to have them.  on a seperate 
note.  something that also came up for me in your post about being a 
bigot because i think a parent should be involved in a childs choices 
I found to be insulting.  I am not a racist or a bigot because I 
beleive that a child should have a parent involved in his her 
learning process.  I do think all children should be able to learn at 
the level of there ability. Not sure mayber your library system in 
Austrailia is different in the US.  Just because we have a restricted 
section does not mean a child can not use those books it merely means 
a child must have a parents permission to use that area.  Again,  I 
need to point out my stand on banning books is that it is not 
acceptable.  If you reread my very first post on this you will find 
that.  It is merely that I as a parent and also as a caregiver to 
young children feel it is my right and my responsibility to see that 
children receive that which is age appropriate.  sherry

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> On 27 Sep 2004 at 13:13, spinelli372003 wrote:
> 
> > I understand all of your points.  However I still hold firm to my 
> > belief that just because something is out there it shouldn't be 
> > accessable to all. Again it is up to the parent to give a child 
> > something that he/she feels is appropriate.  my son at 9 could 
read a 
> > porn magazine.  Does that mean it is something acceptable?  NO.  
My 
> > son at 9 could read a college text book.  again is it something 
that 
> > he needs to see or read at that age?  Children are capable of 
doing 
> > many things but that does not mean they are good for them.  Going 
by 
> > your belief it would follow that your also would agree that 
having 
> > sex at 12 and procreating was ok because biologically they were 
> > able?  
> 
> No, it wouldn't.
> 
> Because it is exceptionally unlikely (probably impossible) that a 
> child of 12, no matter how intelligent that child was, is 
> emotionally ready for the responsibilities inherent in a sexual 
> relationship, and even more unlikely that they are ready in terms 
> of emotional maturity for the responsibilities of parenthood.
> 
> But emotional factors, while important, are only one part of the 
> equation in any decision. Intellectual factors are important as 
> well.
> 
> The kids I work with have the fundamental need to have access to 
> material they are intellectually ready for. If they do not have 
> this access, they tend to be very prone to developing high levels 
> of depressive illness, and they incur a serious danger of 
> significant educational underachievement, along with a host of 
> other potential educational, social, and emotional problems.
> 
> It is not OK to deprive these children of the opportunities they 
> need access to to be emotionally and educationally healthy.
> 
> If a book is taken off a library shelf nobody is able to use that 
> library to access the book. Everybody's rights are restricted.
> 
> If the book is on the shelf, nobody is forced to borrow it, nobody 
> is forced to read it, and nobody is forced to allow their child to 
> read it if in their judgement their child is not ready to read it.
> 
> > I still think it is up to a childs parent to decide if they 
> > were old enough.  Not up to the librarian to decide.  and rules 
are 
> > there for the health and safety of the population at large.  I 
have a 
> > hard time with the few parents who have the super bright children 
> > demanding that the rest of the world meet their demands.  
> I ahve a 
> > hard time with 11 yr old kids in college.   Yes there should be 
> > material and processes in place for them but it doesn't mean that 
the 
> > world should drop all of the tried and working plans.
> 
> All children should be entitled to an education that meets their 
> educational needs.
> 
> Attitudes like those you express here, killed friends of mine - 
> driven to suicide because the education system refused to work to 
> meet their needs. Across the western world each year, literally 
> thosuands of these children develop serious depressive illness 
> because they are denied the education they need to have the same 
> chance as any other child to be happy and healthy.
> 
> If anyone suggested that black parents were wrong to demand 
> appropriate education for their children, that person would be 
> labelled a racist bigot. If anyone suggested the parents of 
> disabled children were wrong to demand appropriate education to 
> meet their children'd educational needs, they would be labelled a 
> bigot. You have a problem with 11 year old children in college - 
> well, I have a problem with 11 year old children who are reading 
> Tolstoy being told they have to spend 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, 
> 40 or more weeks a year having to 'learn' how to spell the word 
> 'squirrel' - something many of them could do at the age of 5 or 
> younger.
> 
> Yes, there are limits to what can be done for these children. The 
> real world imposes real financial restraints that means there is 
> competition for resources, and often after more pressing needs are 
> dealt with, there may not be enough money left to give these kids 
> what they need. If prioritising means that other needs need to be 
> put first, that's fine.
> 
> But allowing kids access to appropriate books for their reading 
> level, and their level of understanding, and their level of 
> maturity doesn't cost any extra than deciding they should only have 
> access to books aimed at the theoretical 'average' child of their 
> age.
> 
> Every child is entitled to the same dignity and respect of having 
> their individual educational needs met wherever it is possible to 
> do so. You may have a problem with that - but it's a matter of 
> basic human justice.
> 
> I agree that it is up to the child's parents to decide whether a 
> child should have access to a particular book or not. But guess 
> what - parents can only make that decision if the books are 
> available. If there are books on your libraries shelf that you do 
> not want your children to read it is your responsibility as a 
> parent to tell your children that, and it is your responsibility as 
> a parent to work to raise children who will respect and obey your 
> instructions and wishes.
> 
> As you say, it is *not* up to the librarian to make these decisions 
> - but if a librarian chooses not to put a particular book on a 
> shelf, they *are* making these decisions. If it is truly the 
> parents job to decide, then the books need to be there so the 
> parents can exercise that judgement.
> 
> If a parent judges that their seven year old child is ready for 
> 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix' and the librarian has 
> decided that book should not be available to children under ten, 
> the librarian is impinging on the parents rights and prerogatives.
> 
> Would I let a 9 year old in my care read pornography? No, I 
> wouldn't - or rather, there hasn't been a single 9 year old of my 
> acquaintance including some who are at college level education who 
> I think would be ready emotionally to deal with that material. But 
> would I let a 9 year old in my care read a college level textbook? 
> Yes, I would - and I have if that is something they want to do - 
> and some of these kids do. Their parents could overrule me, of 
> course - but in as far as it's my decision, with their knowledge 
> and approval, I most certainly would let a child that age read 
> adult level books quite freely unless there was specific content 
> they were unlikely to be emotionally ready for.
> 
> Does a 9 year old *need* to read a college level textbook? It 
> depends on how you define need. It's unlikely he or she is going to 
> need access to the specific information in any given book - but if 
> you have a profoundly gifted child who craves the chance to engage 
> their mind with material that they find intellectually challenging, 
> then that can be a real need, and if that need is not met, these 
> kids can - and often do - switch off from learning. They lose 
> interest in education - at any level.
> 
> >  The world is 
> > as my grandmother would say "going to hell in a handbasket" 
because 
> > so many restrictions and rules that we used to live by have 
dropped 
> > by the wayside.  I think if more parents were involved in what 
there 
> > child were doing rather than just giving a blanket "ITS OK TO DO 
WHAT 
> > YOU WANT" any time any place we would not have as many problems.  
> > sherry <<who will now wait for the computer to blow up from the 
> > outrage over this post lol>>
> 
> The point is Sherry, I completely support your right as a parent to 
> impose any rules and restrictions you want to on your children. I 
> fully support your right to be highly involved in what your 
> children do. I fully agree that more parents *should* be involved 
> in what their child is doing - and that is what I want to happen 
> here.
> 
> I want parents to be guiding what their children read.
> 
> I want parents to be telling their children what rules they expect 
> their child to live by.
> 
> I want parents to be the ones who take responsibility for what 
> *their* child is reading, and I want the parents to be the ones who 
> make the decisions about what their individual child has access to.
> 
> I don't want these decisions placed in the hands of librarians. And 
> when people say a library should restrict access to particular 
> books, that is purely and simply passing the buck away from parents 
> to another body.
> 
> It's giving parents an excuse not to do their job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
> Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
> (ISTJ)       | drednort at a... | ICQ: 6898200 
> "You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
> thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
> facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
> uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
> need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
> Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From lists at heidi8.com  Mon Sep 27 17:12:37 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (heiditandy)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:12:37 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9epi+un0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj9hm5+u804@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
<spin01 at a...> wrote:
> I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I do 
not 
> agree with books being banned.  At all in any way shape or form.  
I 
> do however think that a parent is ultimately responsible for a 
childs 
> reading material.


Sherry - what age group are you defining as a child? Are you 
thinking of 8 year olds? 12 year olds? 16 year olds? They're all 
children, as a matter of law and as a matter of policy in every 
single school in the US (unless they've been emancipated, which is 
very rare), but should a parent have the same ability to restrict 
the reading material of a 16 year old as of an 8 year old? 

I'm speaking here, btw, as a mom of a 5 year old who's "read" via 
audiotape the first three Harry Potter books, as well as Charlotte's 
Web and every Magic Treehouse and Magic Schoolhouse book - he 
prefers me to read to him, but if he wanted to read on his own, 
there is not one book that I would hold off limits to him. But then 
again, I know there is evidence to support the argument I have made, 
that words have a different type of impact on a reader than images 
do - there are certainly many, many types of images I would not let 
him see!

And I'm also speaking as someone who's been a manic bibliophile 
since I was four - by the time I was six, I'd read Little Women and 
at eight, I'd read some Shakespeare - I read Mein Kampf in class 
when I was ten, but I'd known about the Holocaust since I was 
probably six, if not before. 

I think it is *very* important for a parent to know what his or her 
child (read: under 11) is reading, and to accompany one's child to 
the library and/or bookstore, and yes, I think it's appropriate for 
parents to guide their younger children to age-appropriate books, 
but by that, I mean things like theme rather than the complexity of 
language. But I also think that abrogating that responsibility to 
the school, to allow books to be removed from the shelves in a 
library like the one in my son's school, which has to cater to kids 
from four to coming on thirteen, is a cruel, harsh and censorious 
way of controlling the community. 

The ALA agrees that children should not be required to read books 
that the parent considers inapropriate; they say as much on their 
website. Why should one parent, or a dozen parents, be able to say 
that no child in a school should read *any* book? Who gives them the 
right?

Heidi




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 27 17:48:07 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:48:07 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9epi+un0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj9jon+69tl@eGroups.com>

Sherry wrote:

> I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Actually, as far as I can tell, Sherry, Shaun and Heidi are all in 
agreement on the principles.

As so often is the case, it is the practice that is problematic and 
it is here, frankly, that I find the ALA's website somewhat 
frustrating.

As I understand it, Sherry's position is that the outcome of a 
successful 'challenge' is to *reinforce* parental rights, because 
the book is still available to children, but only via parental 
permission; that of most other list members seems to be that it 
*denies* parental (and children's) rights because the book is no 
longer available to children.

Who is right depends not on abstract principles, but on the 
realities on the ground.

It seems to me that the ALA is rather useless in telling us what 
actually happens. (One might think as librarians they might be 
rather good at making relevant information readily and clearly 
accessible.)  Their rather loose language of 'banning' doesn't 
help.  But until we have an authoritative explanation of the actual 
process and some feel for the balance of outcomes, most of this 
debate is IMO moot and, ill-informed.

I think the key questions are:

 - is 'challenge' a formal process sanctioned by law?
 - does it refer only to complete removal from shelves, or moving 
from children's to adult's sections as well?
 - is a challenge asking for complete removal leads only to a move 
to an adult section, how is that counted in terms of banning?
 - how many books are, in fact, removed from libraries annually as a 
result of this process?

David




From spin01 at aol.com  Mon Sep 27 18:08:01 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:08:01 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9hm5+u804@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj9ku1+sjn2@eGroups.com>

Heidi,  I think maybe we are at cross purposes here.  I am speaking 
of a public library.  not a school library.  In a public library it 
is open to all not just certain ages.  My sons have had to have much 
older material for class work.  They are in private schools and have 
not had things removed from their shelves.  however they have had to 
ask for them.  I guess I just don't see the problem with children 
asking for what they want/need.  
sherry

In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" <lists at h...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
> <spin01 at a...> wrote:
> > I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I do 
> not 
> > agree with books being banned.  At all in any way shape or form.  
> I 
> > do however think that a parent is ultimately responsible for a 
> childs 
> > reading material.
> 
> 
> Sherry - what age group are you defining as a child? Are you 
> thinking of 8 year olds? 12 year olds? 16 year olds? They're all 
> children, as a matter of law and as a matter of policy in every 
> single school in the US (unless they've been emancipated, which is 
> very rare), but should a parent have the same ability to restrict 
> the reading material of a 16 year old as of an 8 year old? 
> 
> I'm speaking here, btw, as a mom of a 5 year old who's "read" via 
> audiotape the first three Harry Potter books, as well as 
Charlotte's 
> Web and every Magic Treehouse and Magic Schoolhouse book - he 
> prefers me to read to him, but if he wanted to read on his own, 
> there is not one book that I would hold off limits to him. But then 
> again, I know there is evidence to support the argument I have 
made, 
> that words have a different type of impact on a reader than images 
> do - there are certainly many, many types of images I would not let 
> him see!
> 
> And I'm also speaking as someone who's been a manic bibliophile 
> since I was four - by the time I was six, I'd read Little Women and 
> at eight, I'd read some Shakespeare - I read Mein Kampf in class 
> when I was ten, but I'd known about the Holocaust since I was 
> probably six, if not before. 
> 
> I think it is *very* important for a parent to know what his or her 
> child (read: under 11) is reading, and to accompany one's child to 
> the library and/or bookstore, and yes, I think it's appropriate for 
> parents to guide their younger children to age-appropriate books, 
> but by that, I mean things like theme rather than the complexity of 
> language. But I also think that abrogating that responsibility to 
> the school, to allow books to be removed from the shelves in a 
> library like the one in my son's school, which has to cater to kids 
> from four to coming on thirteen, is a cruel, harsh and censorious 
> way of controlling the community. 
> 
> The ALA agrees that children should not be required to read books 
> that the parent considers inapropriate; they say as much on their 
> website. Why should one parent, or a dozen parents, be able to say 
> that no child in a school should read *any* book? Who gives them 
the 
> right?
> 
> Heidi




From lists at heidi8.com  Mon Sep 27 18:28:25 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (heiditandy)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:28:25 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9ku1+sjn2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj9m49+1ova@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> 
> I think the key questions are:
> 
>  - is 'challenge' a formal process sanctioned by law?
>  - does it refer only to complete removal from shelves, or moving 
> from children's to adult's sections as well?
>  - is a challenge asking for complete removal leads only to a move 
> to an adult section, how is that counted in terms of banning?
>  - how many books are, in fact, removed from libraries annually as 
a 
> result of this process?
> 

David, I respectfully disagree that these are the only key 
questions, as you imply - challenges aren't a formal process, nor 
are they sanctioned by law, but what sort of difference does that 
make? If the end result of the challenge process is to have books 
removed from being accessable by hundreds or thousands, or even 
dozens, of students, does it really need a court order to back it 
up? 

Your second question covers two things - in the ALA's language, it 
refers to both complete removal from shelves, and from moving things 
from kids' sections to adult sections, depending on the 
circumstances. My city's policy is to allow any child with a library 
card the ability to check out books from the whole library, but a 
child under 16 needs parental permission to get the card in the 
first place. But in other libraries, kids cannot check out books 
from the adult section, no matter what - and, as I said in my last 
post, there's a question of what age do you define a "child" as. If 
it's 13 or 14, that's very different from a definition that stops at 
ten. 

The third question is something nobody knows - and it also seems to 
ignore one of the most insidious things, which I mentioned in my TLC 
article - sometimes, a complaint isn't made about a specific book, 
but rather, about a type of book, or about a series, because of 
restrictions that are incorporated in an acquisitions policy. A book 
is banned before it's even purchased if it isn't "allowed" because 
of the policy. There's a chilling effect that occurs in a school or 
a town that's gone through the bookbanning process. I read an 
amazing set of presentations by teens who were arguing against the 
banning of certain books from their schools, and I'm going to try 
and find it tonight - we're not talking here about 8 year olds not 
being allowed to read The Color Purple; we're talking about 15 and 
16 year olds not being allowed to read To Kill A Mockingbird and 
Catcher in the Rye. They're not being given a chance to explore and 
learn and grow, and *that* is a big problem. 


Sherry wrote: <spin01 at a...> wrote:
> Heidi,  I think maybe we are at cross purposes here.  I am 
speaking 
> of a public library.  not a school library.  

You never said that. I just went through your posts, and you never 
said that. But my argument is still the same - what age stops being 
considered "children"? How old does one have to be before the 
responsibility of the parents for shielding and barring changes, or 
ends? 
> They are in private schools and have 
> not had things removed from their shelves. 

Are you very sure? What hasn't been purchased because of acquisition 
policies that restrict access to 'controversial' books? 

 > however they have had to 
> ask for them.  I guess I just don't see the problem with children 
> asking for what they want/need.  


Because it presumes that they will know what they need without 
knowing that it exists. Browsing gives access to many more 
opportunities than having to walk to a librarian and ask for 
something specifically. And if you pull something from the shelves, 
then the chance of coming accross it while browsing is gone. It's 
just completely gone.


Heidi




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 27 20:05:19 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:05:19 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9m49+1ova@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj9rpv+h776@eGroups.com>

Heidi:

> David, I respectfully disagree that these are the only key 
> questions, as you imply

Sorry - didn't mean to imply they are the only key questions, just 
that it's not clear which of the *next* key questions to ask until 
we have answers to those ones.

 - challenges aren't a formal process, nor 
> are they sanctioned by law, but what sort of difference does that 
> make? If the end result of the challenge process is to have books 
> removed from being accessable by hundreds or thousands, or even 
> dozens, of students, does it really need a court order to back it 
> up? 

OK, this is why I think this issue is helpful to resolve.  It goes 
to the point of my earlier question: what is the desired outcome 
here.

My point is that if there is some sort of law that lends weight to 
the banners - e.g. something that says that librarians have to 
comply or state their reasons for refusing a request or something of 
that sort, then the ALA can reasonably ask to have the law altered 
so that the balance is more in favour of freedom of speech - eg that 
the complainant has to provide some kind of evidence of actual harm 
or some such.

If on the other hand it's just that libraries have a process for 
dealing with written requests by the public, by which librarians 
dutifully consider them and then make a decision, well, what exactly 
do you or the ALA want to change?  You won't stop some people 
complaining and trying to ban books they don't like.  What is a 
tolerable number of challenges per year?  How does the kind of 
campaigning the ALA does reduce this number? 

> Your second question covers two things - in the ALA's language, it 
> refers to both complete removal from shelves, and from moving 
things 
> from kids' sections to adult sections, depending on the 
> circumstances. My city's policy is to allow any child with a 
library 
> card the ability to check out books from the whole library, but a 
> child under 16 needs parental permission to get the card in the 
> first place. But in other libraries, kids cannot check out books 
> from the adult section, no matter what - and, as I said in my last 
> post, there's a question of what age do you define a "child" as. 
If 
> it's 13 or 14, that's very different from a definition that stops 
at 
> ten. 

Thank you - this is the kind of information that perhaps is obvious 
to US citizens, but the rest of us don't necessarily understand.  I 
take your point, that to force a 13-14yo to ask their parent(s) 
permission to read books of their choice is not the same as doing 
the same for a 6yo or removing a book from adult access (which of 
course may be locally complete if the book is out of print or very 
expensive).  In a sense that's my point: I'd rather see a reasoned 
analysis of different specific cases leading to concrete proposals 
for improvement, rather than blanket "restriction of free speech is 
terrible, what awful people" statements.
> 
> The third question is something nobody knows - and it also seems 
to 
> ignore one of the most insidious things, which I mentioned in my 
TLC 
> article - sometimes, a complaint isn't made about a specific book, 
> but rather, about a type of book, or about a series, because of 
> restrictions that are incorporated in an acquisitions policy. A 
book 
> is banned before it's even purchased if it isn't "allowed" because 
> of the policy.

I think this 'third' question was the one about how many challenges 
are successful.  (There's also the related question of how long for: 
in the comments on TLC one person mentioned that a book was quietly 
reinstated a year after being banned.)  I do agree that any ban, 
however short, is serious and destructive of childrens education - 
and adults too - but I still think it helpful, to say the least, to 
have some feel for the real scale of the problem.

I understand your point about 

I think it very odd that, as you say 'nobody knows' - why not?  If 
the ALA collect statistics on challenges, why not on their outcomes?

 There's a chilling effect that occurs in a school or 
> a town that's gone through the bookbanning process.

Why is it chilling?  Why, exactly, do challenges sometimes succeed?  
What is to prevent librarians (are librarians automatically ALA 
members?  Do librarians ever share the mindset of those who want to 
ban some books?) from simply turning down challenges?

 I read an 
> amazing set of presentations by teens who were arguing against the 
> banning of certain books from their schools, and I'm going to try 
> and find it tonight - we're not talking here about 8 year olds not 
> being allowed to read The Color Purple; we're talking about 15 and 
> 16 year olds not being allowed to read To Kill A Mockingbird and 
> Catcher in the Rye. They're not being given a chance to explore 
and 
> learn and grow, and *that* is a big problem.

Yes - that is a big problem, but (apart from the TLC reference to 
a 'midwestern school librarian') this is the first time I have seen 
some evidence that the banners get what they want.  But I'd still 
like to know whether such cases are common, or exceptional.

I'm still having trouble shaking the feeling of a storm in a teacup 
here.  Individuals with a variety of agendas - but still, 
approximately, about a thousandth of one percent of your population 
in a year - write to their library or school asking for a book or 
books to be banned.  Librarians, in the main, refuse these 
challenges.  Yes, it would be nice if this *never* happened, but in 
the overall scale of the things that threaten the education of young 
Americans, where does this rank?  To what extent are the ALA merely 
dignifying the views of nutcase Waldo-banners by collating their 
laughable efforts and presenting them to the world as an infection 
at the root of democratic culture?

There is, of course, the argument that all things start small, and 
that these challenges could be the beginning of an ever-increasing 
invasion of the lives of ordinary people (but by whom? Not, in this 
case, it seems, the state) and suppression of freedom of thought.  
However, this seems very unconvincing to me: the ALA have been doing 
this for years.  It feels less like the seeds of a new Orwellianism 
than the rehashing of an old stalemate.

So, to re-put my original question: what is the desired outcome here 
and how is it to be achieved?

David




From plungy116 at aol.com  Mon Sep 27 20:49:39 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:49:39 -0000
Subject: UK phones
In-Reply-To: <cj4epb+lo1v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cj9ud3+60jh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Joe Bento" <joseph at k...> 
wrote:
> --
> 
> Do telephones in the UK now have the alpha characters assigned to 
> each number as American phones do?
> 
 I dont *think* 
> UK telephones had letter combinations assigned to the numbers.
> 
> Joe

They did actually, and as a child growing up I could never understand 
why there were letters with the numbers.  Nobody has rotary phones 
anymore (although when we first moved to this house 7 years ago we 
did have one), all modern "touch-tone" phones and mobiles have the 
letters too - texting is very big over here so spelling the words on 
the JKR site was no problem (once we knew what words we needed to 
spell!!)
Sarah xx




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Mon Sep 27 21:06:58 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:06:58 EDT
Subject: chat reminder
Message-ID: <1c0.1f0b62a0.2e89daf2@aol.com>

Message: 3      
  Date: 26 Sep 2004 15:02:43 -0000
  From: HPFGU-OTChatter
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM CDT (GMT-05:00) 


I get this reminder 3-4 hours after the chat has been scheduled to begin.  I 
wish it could be posted on SATURDAY, or very early Sunday (PST/US).  I'd love 
to participate, but the reminders always come way too late.   :(

"Luna"


-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Mon Sep 27 23:23:06 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:23:06 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9epi+un0p@eGroups.com>
References: <4158AD6B.5377.2FDD8F@localhost>
Message-ID: <41592D7A.13093.2242CD1@localhost>

On 27 Sep 2004 at 16:23, spinelli372003 wrote:

> I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I do not 
> agree with books being banned.  At all in any way shape or form.  I 
> do however think that a parent is ultimately responsible for a childs 
> reading material.  

I don't disagree with this at all. I believe extremely stongly that 
the parent is ultimately responsible for their child's reading 
material.

What I want is for parents to accept that responsibility, and not 
expect a library to do it for them. If it is the parents 
responsibility, then they should be the ones looking at what their 
kids is reading deciding if they want to do that or not. They 
should not be leaving such an important decision up to a librarian, 
and they certainly shouldn't be seeking to have rules imposed that 
will take the right to decide away from other parents when it comes 
to their child.

When a book is aged restricted, it becomes less accessible to 
*every* child, including those whose parents have no objection to 
their child reading the book. These parents are having their right 
to decide what their children read restricted.

That is not your call. You have the right to make decisions for 
your child. You do not have the right to have those decisions 
imposed on other people's children.

If you believe it is your responsibility to decide what your 
children read, then exercise that responsibility. Don't put those 
decisions in the hands of other people.

If I wanted to, in three years time, I could be a children's 
librarian (and I have actually considered it a couple of times, 
though I don't think I'll take that path). Would you like me to be 
the person at your local library who is making the decisions as to 
what is on the shelf and what isn't? Are you confident enough that 
what I think is appropriate for your child to read, is going to 
match what you think your child should be reading?

If this is something that really concerns you, you should be 
fighting for the right to decide for yourself what your children 
read - not supporting the right of other people to limit that 
decision.

You also have to realise that very, very, often librarians do not 
have enough information to make these decisions. Librarians have 
generall not read every single book on a libraries shelf, and often 
only have a very limited idea of their contents. They often don't 
know what to restrict and what not to restrict. I'll just give a 
couple of examples.

When I was 14 or so, I was really into science fiction and fantasy 
books (I still am, actually). One of the more popular series in our 
school library were Piers Anthony's Xanth novels, and these were 
pretty appropriate for kids (I stopped reading them after a while, 
so I don't know if that continued to be the case). Our librarian 
knew this was a popular author, and so ordered other Piers Anthony 
books, assuming they'd be popular as well. One of those series was 
'Bio of a Space Tyrant', which I read. And in one of the books in 
that series - I think either the first or the second one, but I'm 
not sure anymore, the 'hero' of the book rapes a woman, and the 
scene is fairly graphic.

The thing is our school librarian based her decision on what books 
to get on fairly sensible grounds. She went and bought other books 
by the same author who had proven popular and appropriate. And it 
didn't work.

Librarians cannot and do not read every book in their library. They 
cannot know the contents in many cases.

Another example - one of my favourite series of science fiction 
books today is 'The Seafort Saga' by David Feintuch. Brilliant sci 
fi (in my opinion, of course) and it's a series I *strongly* 
recommend to profoundly gifted children over the age of 10 or so - 
mainly because the fifth book in the series has a highly accurate 
portrayal of a PG child as one of its major characters.

The thing is this series is currently... seven books long (unless 
he's put out another one without me looking).

I would have no problems with putting the first three books in the 
series into the hands of an emotionally stable PG 10 year old 
(there's some material that means I wouldn't think it'd be wise for 
kids with certain emotional issues, or experiences to read them). 
But in the middle of the fourth book is a section about 10 pages 
long that I *really* wouldn't want most ten year olds to read, no 
matter how gifted. Then the rest of the fourth book, and the fifth, 
sixth, and seventh go back to being pretty much like the earlier 
books in the series.

The odds of a librarian being aware of a ten page sequence in 
probably something like 2500-3000 pages of the series is pretty 
remote. A librarian who read the first three books wouldn't have a 
clue of what comes later.

Then there's also the same authors first Fantasy novel - 'The 
Still'. I wouldn't put that book in the hands of any child under 
16, and I'd probably advise them not to read it if I saw them with 
it (actually, I'd advise anyone not to read it, just because I 
think, in addition to its content, I think it's just a really, 
really, really bad book).

The thing is, you can't leave these decisions up to librarians, 
because they often will not be aware of what is in a particular 
book, or a particular series, even if they make real efforts to be 
informed. Unlike movies which have ratings that can give you a 
quick burst of information about the likely suitability of a 
particular movie, books are extremely difficult to classify.

I have a children's picture book sitting on my book shelf that 
contains full frontal male nudity - something most people wouldn't 
expect to find in such a book.

My favourite story of book censorship involved a book either 
challenged or actually removed from a library (I can't remember the 
precise details because I read about it a long time ago - I think 
it's a case that often comes up in examples though). The book was 
called 'Making It With Mademoiselle', and it's probably really 
obvious why that book was attacked.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a book of sewing 
patterns from Mademoiselle magazine, but...

> Whether he signs the form at the library saying 
> yes he may have acess to the whole library or whether he says only 
> the childrens section.  It is the parents choice.  I think it is 
> important that the world not take a parents rights away.  and leaving 
> everything out there for the child to choose at such a young age is 
> for me not appropriate.  

It's not appropriate 'for you'. Well, I'm sorry, but that is *your* 
issue, not mine.

You do not have the right to decide what other people's children 
get to see.

If you do not like what is displayed in a particular public 
library, then make the choice not to take your children to that 
library. Don't expect the rights of every other parent and every 
other child to be restricted so the library matches your comfort 
zone.

There are people out there, remember, who don't think it's 
appropriate for their children to see books that show black and 
white kids playing together.

There are people out there, remember, who don't think it's 
appropriate for their children to see books that show women with 
occupations working outside the home.

> I don't care how advance a child is there 
> are some things that he/she does not need access to.  Being on a 
> restricted shelf does not mean a child can not have them.  it means a 
> child needs the parents permission to have them.  on a seperate 
> note.  something that also came up for me in your post about being a 
> bigot because i think a parent should be involved in a childs choices 
> I found to be insulting.  

Well, I'm afraid I can't help it if you read something into my 
posts that wasn't there. I made it 100% abundantly clear that I 
believe a parent SHOULD be involved in a child's choices. I 
absolutely, completely, one hundred percent, manifestly SUPPORT 
parents doing that, so I find it rather ridiculous to find that you 
think I am suggesting that a person who does that is a bigot.

> I am not a racist or a bigot because I 
> beleive that a child should have a parent involved in his her 
> learning process.  I do think all children should be able to learn at 
> the level of there ability. Not sure mayber your library system in 
> Austrailia is different in the US.  Just because we have a restricted 
> section does not mean a child can not use those books it merely means 
> a child must have a parents permission to use that area. 

Actually, in the thirteen public libraries I am fairly familiar 
with (having used them in recent years), I don't recall ever having 
seen a restricted section. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find 
there are some libraries around here that probably have them - but 
it certainly doesn't seem at all common.

The only age restrictions I have ever encountered in a public 
library have related to the borrowing of video cassettes (and 
probably now DVDs, but I haven't checked).

> Again,  I 
> need to point out my stand on banning books is that it is not 
> acceptable.  If you reread my very first post on this you will find 
> that.  It is merely that I as a parent and also as a caregiver to 
> young children feel it is my right and my responsibility to see that 
> children receive that which is age appropriate.  sherry

Sure. So exercise that responsibility for your children - and leave 
the decision as to how to exercise it for other parent's children 
up to their parents.

Don't abrogate your responsibilities to a library system. Don't let 
a library system limit your choices.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 27 23:26:32 2004
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:26:32 -0000
Subject: Animal Farm (spoilers to those who have not read it)
Message-ID: <cja7j8+ltb1@eGroups.com>

Now, this is way off topic from HP, but at least it is a book.  :)

I never read "Animal Farm" in high school or college, but I always
wanted to.  So this weekend my brother gave me his copy to read, and I
must agree it is quite a good book.  

Brief.  
To the point.  
Pessimistic.

I can see how things can get so bad that they turn out the way they
did in the book and can be manipulated into being that way, but I
can't help think in the end when the pigs are like humans, that the
farm animals can just as easily rebel against the pigs.  Granted the
point of the story seems to be the circle of a hard life is constant
no matter how you perceive it, hence the line from the donkey
Benjamin.  I don't know if I am just eternally optimistic or I just am
stubbornly determined to see the good in man to rise above.  Now I am
getting into the "Lord of the Flies" argument.

I guess I just don't see how the animals are stuck "forever" in
misery.  I mean England and America got out of the slums of
Industrialization and cleaned up their faults.  Is the story more
about distracting reality by believing you are free?  Is the story
saying you are controlled by your fears?  Or is the story about how
the smartest can always find ways to arrange things to his favor?

What I do wonder is what happens after the pig Napoleon dies.  That is
what saves many a tyrant's rule.  His inheritor is not as "smart" or
as "clever" as him to spread so much misery.  The question of who
would reign after Hitler died.  Would the whole thing fall because he
or she could not carry the weight of it?  Has totalitarianism ever
lasted over 100 years?  There is so little I know about it and world
events.  I know fear can create a situation for a moment, but
eventually the people revolt.  

That seems to be all over history.  And those succeeding get to feel
freedom for once.  And even though this book presents it as fleeting
or a prop, isn't it more than they had before?  Where does reality
lie, in the head or in the eye?

Ok, I will stop.  I just had to wonder.  Damn books I read.  :)


Melody




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue Sep 28 00:12:00 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:12:00 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cj9jon+69tl@eGroups.com>
References: <cj9epi+un0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <415938F0.26253.250F2FC@localhost>

On 27 Sep 2004 at 17:48, davewitley wrote:

> Sherry wrote:
> 
> > I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.
> 
> Actually, as far as I can tell, Sherry, Shaun and Heidi are all in 
> agreement on the principles.
> 
> As so often is the case, it is the practice that is problematic and 
> it is here, frankly, that I find the ALA's website somewhat 
> frustrating.
> 
> As I understand it, Sherry's position is that the outcome of a 
> successful 'challenge' is to *reinforce* parental rights, because 
> the book is still available to children, but only via parental 
> permission; that of most other list members seems to be that it 
> *denies* parental (and children's) rights because the book is no 
> longer available to children.

Not quite in my case.

The book may well still be available to children, even if it is 
restricted - it depends on the form of restriction. It may be 
absolute (no child may borrow or read this book), or it may be far 
less absolute (this book may not be displayed to children, or 
shelved where children can see it, but is available if a child asks 
for it, or this book is displayed or shelved in an area that is 
restricted to children unless parents have given permission for 
their child to enter that area, for example). 

There are a lot of different potential ways of restricting a book, 
and some I find more acceptable than others - but there are none 
that I find as acceptable as having the books freely available.

In some cases, the issue is that of parental and child rights, in 
other cases, my objections are primarily based on logistics.

In my view, completely restricting a book so children cannot read 
it in a public library is a violation of the rights of both parents 
and children. Full stop.

Having the book available if children ask for it, is also a 
restriction of the child's rights - though a lesser one. This is 
because children, especially, tend to select books by looking at 
them. If the book is not available for them to see, they are 
extremely unlikely to ask for it.

Now whether this is a major problem or not for me, depends on how 
far it goes. It's a slippery slope argument really. 

Why are the books being restricted? I'd have little problem, 
personally with, say, Alex Comfort's "The Joy of Sex" being kept 
under a counter and only available on request. I would have serious 
issues if Robbie Harris' and Michael Emberley's "It's Perfectly 
Normal" was handled in that way.

And the problem is, if this is done, then frankly, I think in 90% 
of libraries, "It's Perfectly Normal" will wind up under the 
counter.

Now, the thing is, these are my *personal* views. There are some 
people who would think "The Joy Of Sex" is something that should be 
out in the open. There's some people who think "It's Perfectly 
Normal" should be sealed in a lead lined box and dropped into the 
Marianas Trench.

And people with all three of those views could well wind up being 
the person at your local library who is deciding what should and 
should not be restricted.

Restriction in this way, will only seem a good idea to people, in 
my view, if their local libraries decisions match their own 
personal views. That's just as true for me as anyone else.

A separate restricted shelf, or a separate restricted area - my 
concern about that is primarily logistical. I don't see how anyone 
can reasonably decide what books will wind up in that area, and 
which books won't. There would be some fairly 'easy' calls, 
probably. But a great many hard ones.

The books I mentioned in a previous post - any librarian who has 
read the first three books in the Hope Nation series, and shelved 
them publically, suddenly gets book 4 (Fisherman's Hope) and is 
likely to simply assume that it belongs in the same place as the 
other books. Or if the librarian does read it, you could wind up 
with a series where Books 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 are available to all - 
and Book 4 isn't.

If there's a restricted section, then it becomes fairly likely that 
any book that is even remotely suspect, will be placed in that 
section simply to play it safe. Gradually you are likely to end up 
with a restricted section that contains mostly books that shouldn't 
be restricted.

If people could guarantee this wouldn't happen - I'd have less 
problems with the ideas. But nobody, I think, can make such 
guarantees.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Tue Sep 28 03:28:39 2004
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:28:39 -0000
Subject: Banned books - another question
In-Reply-To: <cj7les+ehva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjalp7+its@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> I share most people's bemusement at the titles that have been 
> challenged (Tom Sawyer?  What could be more all-American than 
> that?).  I also support the arguments that have been put forward 
> about children and their parents normally being the arbiters, 
rather 
> than others.
> 
> However, I'm a little puzzled (perhaps because, as an un-American, 
I 
> get by without a constitution and we don't seem to have 
> this 'challenging' phenomenon here in the UK) as to what the aim of 
> the ALA is on this issue.
> 
> As I understand it, it is not the government, or some official 
body, 
> that tries to get books removed from library shelves - this is 
> ordinary citizens making a challenge to their (local?) libraries.
> 
> So what does ALA want?  To take away the right to challenge the 
> material on library shelves?  Or just to educate the population so 
> that they use that right in a different way?  What is the purpose 
of 
> the right existing at all?  If (as someone suggested) having a 
> book 'banned' (from libraries, of course, not shops or homes) is a 
> breach of constitutional rights, how can the right to challenge be 
> contitutional?
>

The GOP has come under fire in recent weeks for distributing campaign 
literature in West Virginia stating that if the Democrats win the 
election, than the Bible will be "banned."

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_09_21.shtml

>From the context of the article, I don't know whether the article was 
claiming that the Bible would be "banned" in the Stalinist sense that 
having a Bible in one's possession would subject one to criminal 
prosecution and penalties, or merely that Bibles were banned from the 
public school ciriculumn. I suspect the author was trying to play 
upon the credulity of his more trusting readers, and blur the 
distincton between the two.

But isn't that the case with most of the "HP is a banned book" crowd. 
Now surely, JKR's books are the 800-lb gorilla of modern literature - 
they're so popular and so widely available in so many languages that 
it's difficult to imagine that anyone wanting to read them will be 
unable to obtain access to them (so, you're 10 years old, Mom won't 
let you buy one, and the school library doesn't carry it - so, slip 
out to the local Wal-Mart, plunk down 6.95 for a copy of Sorcerer's 
STone, and hide it under your pillow).

Does the fact that Bible-study is prohibited in virtually all public 
schools these days outrage on the same scale that some schools are 
not stocking the five HP novels? Of course not - but how much sense 
does that make?  If one doesn't know JKR, one is missing a ripping 
great story - but if one is missing Scripture - and I'm keeping this 
on a purely secular plane - there are gigantic chunks of Western 
culture which cannot be understood at all without some knowlege of 
Scripture - even the militant athiest Nietzsche wrote that "compared 
to the Bible, everything else is merely literature." With all due 
respect to the authors of To Kill A Mockingbird and The Color Purple, 
I would suggest that a individual unfamiliar with those novels who 
was yet in possession of a working knowledge of the Gospels and the 
book of Genesis would be somewhat better equipped to understand what 
she was viewing when visiting her local Museum of Art.

I remember reading the astonished reaction of a Civil War scholar who 
suddenly realized that his students had no idea what the newly-
liberated black citizens of Richmond Virginia meant (on April 11, 
1865) when they hailed the visiting President of the United States 
as "Father Abraham" (wow - antebellum black slaves better educated 
than late 20th Century white college kids - whatta concept!)

Similarly, there are writers throughout the world whose works are 
being "banned" in the old-fashioned sense that "the writer will go to 
jail, & the readers will have the book confiscated, for starters." It 
would be nice if the ALA would focus a little attention on guys like 
Russian author Vladimir Sorokin and his 1999 novel Blue Fat. 

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/07/25/russian.author/

http://www.litencyc.com/php/speople.php?rec=true&UID=5508

   - CMC 





From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 04:08:20 2004
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 04:08:20 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <415938F0.26253.250F2FC@localhost>
Message-ID: <cjao3k+mt97@eGroups.com>

I have really enjoyed reading the opinions expressed in this thread! I
am still hopelessly inept at addressing multiple threads (anyone
interested in giving me a tutorial? :-)), so I just picked one to add
to... sorry!

In my city's library, there is a children's section (with a connected
"teen" section) and an adult section, but as far as I know, there is
no restriction on children checking out a book from the adult
section--it is just a way of organizing the books. What I am trying to
understand is, the way I read the ALA's website, if I ask that a book
be moved to the adult section, I am "challenging" that book. If that
book is still accessible to any child who seeks it out--say it's one
of the science fiction books Shaun mentionned and that's how s/he
searches for and finds it--why should I be lumped in the same category
as the parents who want Harry Potter removed from the library? I'm not
asking for it to be removed, restricted or burned. I read a story
recently in _The Hiding Place_ by Corrie ten Boom in which her father
made the analogy that, just like a certain suitcase was too heavy for
her to carry /at that moment/, so too was certain information too much
for her to handle. I really liked that mental picture!

It does appear, though, that some within the ALA would consider even
having a children's section as a form of restriction. I can reason
through some of the rationale behind it, but I'm not sure I can truly
understand why we should allow children we don't find rational enough
to vote to find The Sleeping Beauty Trilogy next to their Disney
illustrated version (okay, dumb example, but I can't think of another
one right now). 

I accept that it is my responsibility to decide what is and isn't
appropriate for my child, and to that end, I probably read more
children's literature than the "grown up" kind. (Which explains a lot,
but that's a different thread entirely.) I /don't/ want the
responsibility for deciding what is appropriate for other people's
children, nor do I want other parents deciding what is right for
mine.  
I see the danger in banning books one doesn't agree with, and I don't
ask for that. But is it really wrong to ask that certain books be
moved so that children (like the ones for whom Shaun advocates so well
or are just a little older) prove by their tenacity in searching them
out that they are ready for them? Isn't it just like making sure they
can handle the Samsonite before handing them the steamer trunk?

Beth
 




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue Sep 28 04:27:56 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:27:56 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cjao3k+mt97@eGroups.com>
References: <415938F0.26253.250F2FC@localhost>
Message-ID: <415974EC.13232.89B126@localhost>

On 28 Sep 2004 at 4:08, Beth wrote:

> I have really enjoyed reading the opinions expressed in this thread! I
> am still hopelessly inept at addressing multiple threads (anyone
> interested in giving me a tutorial? :-)), so I just picked one to add
> to... sorry!
> 
> In my city's library, there is a children's section (with a connected
> "teen" section) and an adult section, but as far as I know, there is
> no restriction on children checking out a book from the adult
> section--it is just a way of organizing the books. What I am trying to
> understand is, the way I read the ALA's website, if I ask that a book
> be moved to the adult section, I am "challenging" that book. 

Generally speaking, no, that would not be regarded as a challenge 
in itself.

For a challenge to occur there must "an attempt to remove or 
restrict materials, based upon the objections of a person or group. 
A banning is the removal of those materials. Challenges do not 
simply involve a person expressing a point of view; rather, they 
are an attempt to remove material from the curriculum or library, 
thereby restricting the access of others."

Whether moving a book from a children's section of a library to an 
adult section is a challenge or not would depend on whether or not 
children have full access to the adult sections of the library.

In many public libraries, while there are separate adults and 
childrens sections, children are fully entitled to peruse the adult 
shelves and borrow books from the adult shelves. In that situation, 
simply asking for a book to be moved from one section to another is 
not a challenge.

It becomes a challenge if moving the books serves to restrict 
access to them.

> If that
> book is still accessible to any child who seeks it out--say it's one
> of the science fiction books Shaun mentionned and that's how s/he
> searches for and finds it--why should I be lumped in the same category
> as the parents who want Harry Potter removed from the library? I'm not
> asking for it to be removed, restricted or burned. 

Well, I wouldn't place you in that category. There's absolutely 
nothing wrong in my view with having separate sections for adult 
and children's books - provided these divisions are not used to 
deny access to the books.

The main public library I grew up with had separate sections for 
children and adults - but children were perfectly at liberty to 
browse the adult shelves and borrow. Very few young children did so 
- but as kids got older they certainly started to.

I read a story
> recently in _The Hiding Place_ by Corrie ten Boom in which her father
> made the analogy that, just like a certain suitcase was too heavy for
> her to carry /at that moment/, so too was certain information too much
> for her to handle. I really liked that mental picture!
> 
> It does appear, though, that some within the ALA would consider even
> having a children's section as a form of restriction. I can reason
> through some of the rationale behind it, but I'm not sure I can truly
> understand why we should allow children we don't find rational enough
> to vote to find The Sleeping Beauty Trilogy next to their Disney
> illustrated version (okay, dumb example, but I can't think of another
> one right now). 

As far as I am aware the ALA would not consider having a children's 
section to be a form of restriction, provided children still had 
access to the adults sections of the library.

> I accept that it is my responsibility to decide what is and isn't
> appropriate for my child, and to that end, I probably read more
> children's literature than the "grown up" kind. (Which explains a lot,
> but that's a different thread entirely.) I /don't/ want the
> responsibility for deciding what is appropriate for other people's
> children, nor do I want other parents deciding what is right for
> mine.  
> I see the danger in banning books one doesn't agree with, and I don't
> ask for that. But is it really wrong to ask that certain books be
> moved so that children (like the ones for whom Shaun advocates so well
> or are just a little older) prove by their tenacity in searching them
> out that they are ready for them? Isn't it just like making sure they
> can handle the Samsonite before handing them the steamer trunk?

As long as the kids aren't blocked from seeing the books and 
borrowing the books, I have no problem with certain books being in 
an adult section of a library, and with there being a children's 
section.

But the books must be available for the children to see them and 
borrow them in the same basic way as they are found in the 
children's section.




Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From kelleythompson at gbronline.com  Tue Sep 28 04:45:42 2004
From: kelleythompson at gbronline.com (Kelley)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 04:45:42 -0000
Subject: chat reminder / Sunday chat
In-Reply-To: <1c0.1f0b62a0.2e89daf2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cjaq9m+mgik@eGroups.com>

Luna:
> I get this reminder 3-4 hours after the chat has been scheduled to 
> begin.  I wish it could be posted on SATURDAY, or very early Sunday 
> (PST/US).  I'd love to participate, but the reminders always come 
> way too late.   :(


Hi, Luna!

The way it's set right now, the reminder is posted three hours before 
chat is scheduled to begin; thing is, it's only going to arrive that 
way to folks who are set to receive individual emails.  (It's set 
exactly the same way on the main list, too.)  I'll see if I can 
figure something out...

Fwiw, Sunday chat begins at 11 am Pacific, noon Mountain, 1 pm 
Central, 2 pm Atlantic, and 7 pm UK time.  I've not worked out the 
start times for elsewhere around the globe, but if someone would like 
to supply that info, it'd be great...

--Kelley




From plungy116 at aol.com  Tue Sep 28 10:36:19 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:36:19 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <41592D7A.13093.2242CD1@localhost>
Message-ID: <cjber3+jrn6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:


> 
> Actually, in the thirteen public libraries I am fairly familiar 
> with (having used them in recent years), I don't recall ever having 
> seen a restricted section. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find 
> there are some libraries around here that probably have them - but 
> it certainly doesn't seem at all common.
> 
Joining this debate a little late, but getting back to Harry and JKR -
 the wizarding world obviously feel there is a need for certain 
literature to be restricted - I want to know who decides on the 
content of the restricted section in the Hogwarts Library?  Would it 
just be Dumbledore, all the teachers or the Governors?  Surely 
someone like Lucius Malfoy would want his children to learn about the 
dark arts as part of a full education.
Just my 2p (and sorry if its been said before)
Sarah xx




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue Sep 28 10:42:25 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:42:25 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cjber3+jrn6@eGroups.com>
References: <41592D7A.13093.2242CD1@localhost>
Message-ID: <4159CCB1.6233.1E09502@localhost>

On 28 Sep 2004 at 10:36, Sarah wrote:

> Joining this debate a little late, but getting back to Harry and JKR -
>  the wizarding world obviously feel there is a need for certain 
> literature to be restricted - I want to know who decides on the 
> content of the restricted section in the Hogwarts Library?  Would it 
> just be Dumbledore, all the teachers or the Governors?  Surely 
> someone like Lucius Malfoy would want his children to learn about the 
> dark arts as part of a full education.
> Just my 2p (and sorry if its been said before)
> Sarah xx

Yes, I also noticed that Hogwarts Library does indeed have a 
restricted section. I would guess the decision as to whether or not 
a given book should be restricted or not there is probably made by 
the teachers about books in their own subject area. They seem to be 
the experts in each particular subject. I would also suspect that 
many of the books may have been restricted years ago by previous 
teachers - once a book is in there, perhaps it stays there forever.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From przepla at gmail.com  Tue Sep 28 12:13:33 2004
From: przepla at gmail.com (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:13:33 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Animal Farm (spoilers to those who have not read it)
In-Reply-To: <cja7j8+ltb1@eGroups.com>
References: <cja7j8+ltb1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <687a2209040928051348743077@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:26:32 -0000, Melody <malady579 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now, this is way off topic from HP, but at least it is a book.  :)
> 
> [...]
> I guess I just don't see how the animals are stuck "forever" in
> misery.  I mean England and America got out of the slums of
> Industrialization and cleaned up their faults.  Is the story more
> about distracting reality by believing you are free?  Is the story
> saying you are controlled by your fears?  Or is the story about how
> the smartest can always find ways to arrange things to his favor?

Well, this is a story about Soviet Russia, which was at that time
viewed by some deluged western people as heaven on Earth.
Most major characters are based on real people: Napoleon on Stalin,
Major on Lenin, Snowball on Trotsky.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm). As such it was banned in
Poland and all countries under Soviet influence till 1989. For
acquainted with the Soviet system of oppressions at that time, it is a
very bitter satire about corruption of high ideas of socialism.

I never consider it conveying some high thoughts. But perhaps I am wrong.

-- 
Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki



From hermionesmum at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 12:26:08 2004
From: hermionesmum at yahoo.com (Sam Edwards)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 05:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] chat reminder
In-Reply-To: <1c0.1f0b62a0.2e89daf2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040928122608.45633.qmail@web61006.mail.yahoo.com>



LunaLovesHarry at aol.com wrote:
I get this reminder 3-4 hours after the chat has been scheduled to begin.  I 
wish it could be posted on SATURDAY, or very early Sunday (PST/US).  I'd love 
to participate, but the reminders always come way too late.   :(

"Luna"


Hi Luna,

        It might help to get the reminder a bit earlier. Don't be put off popping over to the chat room late though. I'm far too often still there three, four, even five hours after it began, (as are a few others, you know who you are:)

Sam


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 17:03:45 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:03:45 -0000
Subject: Animal Farm (spoilers to those who have not read it)
In-Reply-To: <cja7j8+ltb1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjc5hh+7hva@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <Malady579 at h...> 
wrote:
Pessimistic.
> 
> I can see how things can get so bad that they turn out the way they
> did in the book and can be manipulated into being that way, but I
> can't help think in the end when the pigs are like humans, that the
> farm animals can just as easily rebel against the pigs.  Granted the
> point of the story seems to be the circle of a hard life is constant
> no matter how you perceive it, hence the line from the donkey
> Benjamin.  I don't know if I am just eternally optimistic or I just 
am
> stubbornly determined to see the good in man to rise above.  Now I 
am
> getting into the "Lord of the Flies" argument.
> 
> I guess I just don't see how the animals are stuck "forever" in
> misery.  I mean England and America got out of the slums of
> Industrialization and cleaned up their faults.  Is the story more
> about distracting reality by believing you are free?  Is the story
> saying you are controlled by your fears?  Or is the story about how
> the smartest can always find ways to arrange things to his favor?
> 
> What I do wonder is what happens after the pig Napoleon dies.  That 
is
> what saves many a tyrant's rule.  His inheritor is not as "smart" or
> as "clever" as him to spread so much misery.  The question of who
> would reign after Hitler died.  Would the whole thing fall because 
he
> or she could not carry the weight of it?  Has totalitarianism ever
> lasted over 100 years?  There is so little I know about it and world
> events.  I know fear can create a situation for a moment, but
> eventually the people revolt.  

> Ok, I will stop.  I just had to wonder.  Damn books I read.  :)
> 
> 
> Melody

Melody, "Eventually" can be a long time for those stuck in the 
horrors of such a system.  Orville's thesis is that the Communists 
had set out to achieve brutal power consciously, with malice 
aforethought, and planned each step of the way.  To paraphrase from 
his negative utopia "1984": the only way you know-- really know-- 
that you have power is your ability to make others suffer.

The Communists lasted seventy years, less than your century, but a 
full biblical "three score and ten".  During that time they caused 
the death of perhaps fifty million people.  Not enemies, not the 
Nazis in World War II, but their own people:  men, women, children, 
dead by an "arranged" famine; dead by working them to death in the 
frozen north, building canals that didn't work, or hydroelectric 
plants so inefficient that a new wave of oppression was started to 
hide the embarassment over this failure; dead by visits in the middle 
of the night to kidnap unsuspecting citizens; engineers, officers, 
other parties which had been allies, dead.  

Perhaps instead of taking comfort that totalitarianism hasn't lasted 
over 100 years, (Not true; in so-called "water supply" economies, the 
controlling powers can last for generations, unless destroyed from 
outside.)the question should be why it took seventy years of this 
horrror and misery for the people to do whatever was necessary to 
throw off this yoke.  And coountries such as the People's Republic of 
China are far better at this than the Soviets ever were.  Of course, 
they've only been in power fifty-five years.  We have fifteen years 
yet.

Haggridd




From dzny72 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 18:59:13 2004
From: dzny72 at yahoo.com (dzny72)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:59:13 -0000
Subject: Halloween costumes
Message-ID: <cjcca1+3fm7@eGroups.com>

I have seen online Hedwig costumes for toddlers (they actually call 
it "Harry Potter owl", but I am looking for one to fit my 7 month old 
(he actually wears a 12-18mts).  My 6 year old son is going to be 
Harry for Halloween and his brother as Hedwig is too hard for me to 
resist!!!  If any one knows where I can find anything like this, I 
would greatly appreciate the help!  You may also email me offline at 
dzny72 at yahoo.com

Thanks!!!! 




From kelleythompson at gbronline.com  Tue Sep 28 20:00:44 2004
From: kelleythompson at gbronline.com (Kelley)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:00:44 -0000
Subject: chat reminder
In-Reply-To: <20040928122608.45633.qmail@web61006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjcftc+agqp@eGroups.com>

Sam:
>         It might help to get the reminder a bit earlier. Don't be 
> put off popping over to the chat room late though. I'm far too 
> often still there three, four, even five hours after it began, 
> (as are a few others, you know who you are:)

Heh!  Yep, I'm often surprised to hear how late some folks are still 
going at it over there. ;-)

You think it would help to get it earlier?  I'm happy to set it at 
whatever time people like; ideally, it'd be the best time for the 
most people.  I was thinking that a day ahead would be too far, that 
people would forget about it by the time chat actually rolled around; 
not so?

Or, another thing -- I could set two reminders to go.  One a day 
ahead, twelve hours ahead, whatever, and the second to come either at 
the time it's set for now (three hours before) or even closer to chat 
time.  What do y'all think?

--Kelley




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 20:17:47 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:17:47 -0000
Subject: JKRowling Website questions
In-Reply-To: <25.4d83bd83.2e7c9689@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cjcgtb+tjff@eGroups.com>

abbid at c wrote:
> 2.  When peeves went by the main desk page and changed the marble he 
> also did something to the watch.  It added 11 more hands for a total 
> of 12 hands and also what looks like the phases of the moon instead 
> of numbers.  Does anyone think this has any significance?
>     
> 
Chancie responded:
> I actualy thought the watch resembled a dart board. (maybe that's
just me) I also wonderd if this was significant because the last time
the door was open you had to throw DARTS to get past the cork board. 
The watch also reminded me of the Weasley's clock, with all the hands.  
> 

Carol:
The Weasleys' clock would have only ten hands (one for each member of
the Weasley family), not twelve like the watch when it turns gold. The
suggestion has been made that it's transformed into Dumbledore's watch
(see SS/PS chapter one), which also has twelve hands. While I doubt
that Dumbledore would wear a Muggle wristwatch, especially not one
that seems to be a woman's (JKR's own), I wouldn't be surprised if the
watch*face* resembles the face of his pocketwatch (which DD, being
old-fashioned, would surely prefer to a wristwatch) when Peeves comes
by. (BTW, I think the ugly, insectlike creature that flies over the
desk is a Doxy, but I could be wrong.)

Note that some scrapbook items can only be found after Peeves appears
or while he's there, but not all of Peeves's appearances are
significant. They're mostly for fun. (Watch what he does on the page
with the locked door, for example.)

You don't have to remain on the page. You can open another window and
go to another site, such as this one or HPfGU, and just listen to
JKR's site as background white noise. When you hear the wind blowing,
quickly open the page for her site and you'll catch Peeves in action
(and hear his wicked cackle), though you won't see him.

You can also answer JKR's phone if it rings and hear what I'm sure is
her voice if the main page is open in another window.

Carol




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 20:54:50 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:54:50 -0000
Subject: HP related bumper sticker
In-Reply-To: <cihnha+k6a3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjcj2q+puf4@eGroups.com>

Thekrenz (I think) wrote:

[The "Republicans for Voldemort" sticker] does "raise stronger
feelings...than you would..expect".  I was a taken aback and had to
read it several time 
> to make sure I read it correctly. I have to admit, I really don't 
> like the idea of HP being used in such a twisted manner.  Please 
> don't misinterpret that as me being against free speech.  I totally 
> support that concept.  Honestly, the bumper sticker made me 
> uncomfortable...weird, huh?


Carol responds:
To me it's sort of like saying "Republicans for the Devil" except that
a different audience is being appealed to. Or maybe, since more
Republicans than Democrats are fundamentalist Christians who actually
believe in the Devil, maybe "Democrats for the Devil" would be an apt
response to "Republicans for Voldemort" since the clear intention of
the Voldemort slogan is to injure or insult any Republicans who know
who Voldemort is (and perhaps amuse a few unthinking Democrats).
Yes, it's free speech, but it's mean-spirited, and IMO in bad taste.
(Think "Tories for Sauron" if you happen to be British.)

Carol






From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 21:13:35 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:13:35 -0000
Subject: Halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <cjcca1+3fm7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjck5v+hpfd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dzny72" <dzny72 at y...> wrote:
> I have seen online Hedwig costumes for toddlers (they actually 
call it "Harry Potter owl", but I am looking for one to fit my 7 
month old (he actually wears a 12-18mts).  My 6 year old son is 
going to be Harry for Halloween and his brother as Hedwig is too 
hard for me to resist!!!  If any one knows where I can find anything 
like this, I would greatly appreciate the help!  You may also email 
me offline at 
> dzny72 at y...
> 
> Thanks!!!!

*****\(@@)/*****

I took a look at the infants section of www.Buycostumes.com and they 
had a really cute infant witch see:

http://www.buycostumes.com/ProductDetail.aspx?
ProductID=18102&PCatID=childcostumes&ccatid=childbaby

or a baby dragon (Norbert!)

http://www.buycostumes.com/ProductDetail.aspx?
ProductID=11557&PCatID=childcostumes&ccatid=childbaby

or my favorite:

http://www.buycostumes.com/ProductDetail.aspx?
ProductID=18098&PCatID=childcostumes&ccatid=childbaby

a vampire!

Sorry no baby owls.... If you sew, possibly you could find a pattern 
you could adapt from the picture of the Hedwig child costume. All it 
would need to be was in plush and use felt for trimming.

Good luck and post us some pictures!

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****






From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 28 22:11:03 2004
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:11:03 -0000
Subject: chat reminder
In-Reply-To: <cjcftc+agqp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjcnhn+kivg@eGroups.com>

Kelley:
> Or, another thing -- I could set two reminders to go.  One a day 
> ahead, twelve hours ahead, whatever, and the second to come either 
at 
> the time it's set for now (three hours before) or even closer to 
chat 
> time.  What do y'all think?


Jen: 

That sounds like a good idea. 

I actually made it into the chat room the other day, but then didn't 
know what to do. This sounds silly but I've never been in a chat 
before--do you just start typing? Wait for a comment to come up on 
screen? I exited out after about a minute because I felt foolish. 

Any hints, veteran chatters?

Jen, who has no problem writing if she can edit but doesn't know if 
she can hack the chat room.




From kennymod at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 22:21:47 2004
From: kennymod at yahoo.com (kennymod)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:21:47 -0000
Subject: T - Rex and JKR
Message-ID: <cjco5r+qlqf@eGroups.com>

 Has anyone ever heard JKR talk about or get asked about T Rex (Marc 
Bolan)?  (70s English pop glam mod superstar).  I was reading a bio 
of Marc Bolan and it stated he had a close friend or relative (could 
have also been David Bowie's girlfriend at the time) who was named 
Hermione and on an early T Rex lp (cd) there is a song 
called "Trelawney Lawn".  His first single was called "The Wizard" 
and had a book of poetry, The Warlock of Love.  (see Allmusic.com 
bio).  His folk boogie music and wobbly voice is what I'd expect 
from the Wierd Sisters.  Any mentions of "White Swans" in the HP 
books, it was T Rex's firsr big hit?
 
K





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 28 22:34:40 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:34:40 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cjao3k+mt97@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjcou0+ivbf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> wrote:

> ...edited...
> 
> I accept that it is my responsibility to decide what is and isn't
> appropriate for my child,.... But is it really wrong to ask that 
> certain books be moved so that children prove by their tenacity in 
> searching them out that they are ready for them? ...
> 
> Beth

bboyminn:

"But is it really wrong to ask that certain books be moved...?"
Answer, that depends. If you express your opinion to the librarian,
then you are well within you right, it's called 'freedom of speech'.
But if you bang your fist on the counter and say, 'move that book or
you'll hear from my lawyer' then you are attempting censorship. Of
course, I know they you intended nothing that extreme, I'm just
contrasting the two approaches. 

If the former case, you express your opinion which is added to the
opinions of others and if enough opinons are expressed the librarian
will probably review the book and make a judgement call. In the later
case, you 'challenge' is likely to be tallied by the ALA. Unless I am
mistaken, 'challenges' are under-reported, so anyone who things the
ALA is totaling up every little comment are probably wrong.
Substantial challenges that require action on the part of the library
are the one that are counted.

In a sense, I suspect that, in general, the problem is self-limiting.
A book that is too deep or extreme for a child is probably a book that
the child will quickly grow bored of or have no interest in in the
first place. In rare cases a book may be very captivating but have
dark, scary, or adult themes, in this case, the parent should have
reviewed the book and told the child that as a parent they didn't
think it was appropriate. It's called good parenting. 

Sadly, too many parents raise their kids on autopilot; just close you
eyes, grit your teeth, and hope the survive childhood. Too many
parents assume their children know what are appropriate limits, but
they never have the courage to sit down and clearly draw that line in
the sand. Frequently, we hear, 'well, if we tell the NO, it will just
make them want to do it more', which in my opinion is the sadest
excuse in existance for abidcating your parental responsibility. Like
it or not, it's your just from the day they are born to set and
enforce the limits. Then when the time comes for you teen to make a
decision, while they may choose to go against your standard and
limits, you have at least given them reference point; they are least
know where you stand. Without those clearly defined limits, no only
don't they know where you, the parent stands, the don't really know
where they, the teen, stand because, as I said, they would have no
reference points.

If, as a parent, you have done and are doing your job, then your child
will know reasonable limits and will try to work within them. If you
clearly state that it's not appropraite for them at their age to read
about adult intimate romantic situations, then they really are likely
to stear clear of the subject. At least, until that limit becomes
unreasonable for their maturity level. 

Research has shown, as much as kids hate restrictions placed on them
by their parents, they really do appreciate it, and respect their
parents for their efforts.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)






From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 28 22:51:40 2004
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:51:40 -0000
Subject: Animal Farm (spoilers to those who have not read it)
In-Reply-To: <cjc5hh+7hva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjcpts+f0cu@eGroups.com>

First, Przemyslaw Plaskowicki.  Thank you for the link.  It was a nice
quick overview to all those bits I did not know.  When the book
introduction does not illude to it and you do not read the book in a
class with a professor to tell you what the author meant, you are left
to your own knowledge.  And unfortunately, my knowledge and love of
history has focused on Britian and America all my life, so I have
missed that chunk.  


Haggridd wrote:
> Melody, "Eventually" can be a long time for those stuck in the 
> horrors of such a system.  

Yes.  I am sorry if I spoke lightly of it.  It was not my intent. 
Often when you are glazing through history and looking at it from
above, you can forget that people suffer day by day in it and the life
they lived was not humane.  If you look over the whole of history, you
really cannot find a single bit of it where all humans were treated
well and had hope.  So to me, every system had horrors for someone. 
It just seems totalitarianism manages to lump more in that misery
category than say fuedalism.  


Haggridd:
> Orville's thesis is that the Communists 
> had set out to achieve brutal power consciously, with malice 
> aforethought, and planned each step of the way.  To paraphrase from 
> his negative utopia "1984": the only way you know-- really know-- 
> that you have power is your ability to make others suffer.

Is that really true?  From the beginning, the whole goal of those
seeking Russian power or in this book "the pigs" was in full knowledge
that it will drive the quality of life down for those they stood on? 
They purposefully engaged in practices to see how far they can drive
the people down?  I thought all they wanted was power and the
appearance of glory, so they did all they could to keep those two
myths alive to those in and outside their reign.  

I never knew if Communism started in Russia with idealism truely in
mind, or if those seeking its coming saw the evil innate in the system
and exploited it.  

I just thought, and remember I was in elementary school when the USSR
fell, that Russia became corrupt not because it started that way, but
because it did not account for the greed in people.  


> The Communists lasted seventy years, less than your century, but a 
> full biblical "three score and ten".  

Well, I said century because I do know the Czar was overthrown around
the turn of the century.  But if I had thought harder I would have
remembered the princesses in 1910's clothing and that USSR came down
in the 80's.  


> During that time they caused 
> the death of perhaps fifty million people.  Not enemies, not the 
> Nazis in World War II, but their own people:  men, women, children, 
> dead by an "arranged" famine; dead by working them to death in the 
> frozen north, building canals that didn't work, or hydroelectric 
> plants so inefficient that a new wave of oppression was started to 
> hide the embarassment over this failure; dead by visits in the 
> middle of the night to kidnap unsuspecting citizens; engineers, 
> officers, other parties which had been allies, dead.  

And did the world do anything?  Did the UN?  I never knew it was that
bad.  It is sad that public and even college courses get to the last
century of world history in the last weeks of class, and thus skim
over them.  What we should know best is our recent history.  It is so
important and so tender still.

 
> Perhaps instead of taking comfort that totalitarianism hasn't lasted 
> over 100 years, 

Everyone tries to take comfort in evil not lasting.  That is the
essence of fairy tales and even Harry Potter.  Evil will happen. 
People will suffer.  I try to find comfort in the fact that it will
not last forever.  I guess that the pendulum will swing the other way.
 Maybe that is because that is the only comfort I can find, because I
*know* evil things will happen.  Maybe because I have never lived
under a regime, I don't understand, and cannot understand, what it is
I am trying to comprehend.


> ...the question should be why it took seventy years of this 
> horrror and misery for the people to do whatever was necessary to 
> throw off this yoke.  And coountries such as the People's Republic 
> of China are far better at this than the Soviets ever were.  Of 
> course, they've only been in power fifty-five years.  We have 
> fifteen years yet.

And why does the world do nothing?  Why hasn't the UN done anything? 
Because China says they are shifting into an "UN approved" government,
or because they are so big and their army can crush anyone that tries?


Melody
who has always asked too many questions and been overly curious




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Tue Sep 28 22:51:46 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:51:46 EDT
Subject: Kelley - chat
Message-ID: <e4.58f52062.2e8b4502@aol.com>

>>"Hi, Luna!

The way it's set right now, the reminder is posted three hours before 
chat is scheduled to begin; thing is, it's only going to arrive that 
way to folks who are set to receive individual emails.  (It's set 
exactly the same way on the main list, too.)  I'll see if I can 
figure something out...

Fwiw, Sunday chat begins at 11 am Pacific, noon Mountain, 1 pm 
Central, 2 pm Atlantic, and 7 pm UK time.  I've not worked out the 
start times for elsewhere around the globe, but if someone would like 
to supply that info, it'd be great...

--Kelley"<<


Hi Kelley, thanks for the information.  I try to remember each week, but by 
11am on Sundays I'm usually doing something with my son.  I'll put a bunch of 
post-it note reminders around the house for this weekend.  Hopefully that will 
help!  LOL  

"Luna"


-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From LunaLovesHarry at aol.com  Tue Sep 28 22:56:42 2004
From: LunaLovesHarry at aol.com (LunaLovesHarry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:56:42 EDT
Subject: BBC question
Message-ID: <1e5.2b71096c.2e8b462a@aol.com>

Hi,

I used to work with someone about 12 years ago, who moved to the UK and went 
to work for the BBC.  I have no idea if shes still even there, but I'd love to 
try and find her.  Does anyone on this list know anyone at the BBC?  Or know 
how to go about contacting them?  Maybe I should google "BBC" and find a 
website.  Hhhmmmmm ... geez, now I'm thinking aloud.  I'll go ahead and post this 
note to the list on the off-chance someone knows something.  I'll also go the 
google-route.  :)


"Luna"


-------------
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in 
a pretty and well preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly 
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW! What a Ride!" 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From redina at silverbloom.net  Wed Sep 29 03:49:33 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:49:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Politics, using fandom, and The Leaky Cauldron site
Message-ID: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

I visited HPANA recently and noticed this entry:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/005106.html

My initial reaction was... disappointment.  I think it's from seeing some
rather nasty arguments already in other forums to see a fandom news site
do this... {shakes head}

I know the upcoming elections are important but I'm of the mindset you
shouldn't mix politics at fandom-specific sites.  I've seen Journalfen do
this too and I was also disappointed then.  Personal sites are fine and
all but... The Leaky Cauldron? :-\

If I see a 'if you don't vote, you'll make baby Harry cry' icon--I've seen
the 'your stupidity makes baby Harry cry' icon already--all I can think of
is how Bush manipulates his contingent through 'bleeding hearts'.

I suspect this is where part of my feelings come from is this sense these
sites are using... Bush-like tactics.  I saw the RNC weeks ago and it
somewhat sickened me in a way because of the bashing and riding on the
backs of the dead.  Although, I think charities are fine at fandom sites
because I don't have this stigma of bickering and backstabbing often
associated with politics.

If a person is going to vote, they'll do so.  If they aren't sure about
the process, they can research... no, scratch that.  I've seen enough
instances in the HP fandom alone where folks can't figure out how to use
Google--I'm using Google as an example since website advertising implies
the viewers have internet access.

Dina





From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 04:16:14 2004
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 04:16:14 -0000
Subject: All is well from Tampa Florida
Message-ID: <cjdcue+levc@eGroups.com>

Hey guys and gals all is well from Lutz, Florida. What a rush from
Hurricane Jeanne. After my first post saying everything was ok
everything went crazy. First there was a lot of wind and rain and the
wind got crazier that we had tree branches fall. Then the fire alarm
at our apartment went off and at least someone who works there lives
in the apartment had made a call to see if he can turn it off and he
finally got it off in 15 minutes and then 2 hours later our
electricity wen off and didnt come back on until the next morning.
Then my fiance called his mom yesturday and found out that his mother
got mugged in broad daylight at a grocery store and stole her wallet
and he beat her up pretty bad but he got it worse from her. We went to
see her and we think she might have a concession because she keeps
forgetting what is going on so I made her go to the hospital today and
we are going to check on her again tomorrow. We made her day today by
getting her pink carnations which is her favorite. Just pray for her
while she is going through this please.
Oh more about the hurricane we have a pond near at the back of the
apartment complex and it man it look like a ocean. It had waves up to
2 feet or so.
I wont be online Saturday and Sunday because I will be Gainsville
visiting my sweeties alma matter at Univeristy of Florida boo Gators.
I hate Gators only when they are playing Seminoles. I love FSU. So I
will be going to NO Mail on Friday since we are leaving early in the
morning on Saturday and wont be back until late Sunday.
Well got to go now I am tired I need sleep since I didnt get that much
since Friday. I think I slept a little but not during the coming of
the hurricane and after we heard about my sweeties mom.
Talk to you guys tomorrow.

Tasha

http://www.Hurricane_Support_Group at yahoogroups.com 




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 05:58:39 2004
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:58:39 -0000
Subject: Animal Farm (spoilers to those who have not read it)
In-Reply-To: <cjcpts+f0cu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjdiuf+dejk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <Malady579 at h...> 
wrote:
 
> 
> Haggridd wrote:
> > Melody, "Eventually" can be a long time for those stuck in the 
> > horrors of such a system.  
> 
> Yes.  I am sorry if I spoke lightly of it.  It was not my intent. 
 I know that, dear.  But the abstract nver does justice to the 
reality of these things.
> 
> Haggridd:
> > Orville's thesis is that the Communists 
> > had set out to achieve brutal power consciously, with malice 
> > aforethought, and planned each step of the way.  To paraphrase 
from 
> > his negative utopia "1984": the only way you know-- really know-- 
> > that you have power is your ability to make others suffer.
> 
> Is that really true?  From the beginning, the whole goal of those
> seeking Russian power or in this book "the pigs" was in full 
knowledge
> that it will drive the quality of life down for those they stood 
on? 
> They purposefully engaged in practices to see how far they can drive
> the people down?  I thought all they wanted was power and the
> appearance of glory, so they did all they could to keep those two
> myths alive to those in and outside their reign.  
> 
> I never knew if Communism started in Russia with idealism truely in
> mind, or if those seeking its coming saw the evil innate in the 
system
> and exploited it.  
> 

Unfortunately, it was really true.  Lenin's revolution was not 
idealistic, but a cynical putsch.  Read Solzhenitsyn for his views on 
the October Revolution.


> I just thought, and remember I was in elementary school when the 
USSR
> fell, that Russia became corrupt not because it started that way, 
but
> because it did not account for the greed in people.  
> 
Corruption is the almost inevitble result of the prohibition of 
private property in favor of the National ownership of the means of 
production.  It is no longer important what one does, but who one 
knows in the bureaucracy.  One is compelled to beg or bribe what they 
had previously earned by right.  The system carried the seeds of its 
corruption.



> > During that time they caused 
> > the death of perhaps fifty million people.  Not enemies, not the 
> > Nazis in World War II, but their own people:  men, women, 
children, 
> > dead by an "arranged" famine; dead by working them to death in 
the 
> > frozen north, building canals that didn't work, or hydroelectric 
> > plants so inefficient that a new wave of oppression was started 
to 
> > hide the embarassment over this failure; dead by visits in the 
> > middle of the night to kidnap unsuspecting citizens; engineers, 
> > officers, other parties which had been allies, dead.  
> 
> And did the world do anything?  

No. The world had the unenviable choice of Nazi Germany vesus 
Communist Russia.  In the short run, it was more important to defeat 
National Socialism-- but what a choice to have to make.

Did the UN?  
 
There was no UN until 1945, and by virtue of the Soviet Union being a 
permanent member of the Security Council with the veto, the UN was 
organizationally unable to act against the USSR.

I never knew it was that
> bad.  It is sad that public and even college courses get to the last
> century of world history in the last weeks of class, and thus skim
> over them.  What we should know best is our recent history.  It is 
so
> important and so tender still.
> 
> 
I agree with you.  I think that starting the course at the beginning 
of the cnetury of wars (the 20th) would be far more eductional.


> > Perhaps instead of taking comfort that totalitarianism hasn't 
lasted 
> > over 100 years, 
> 
> Everyone tries to take comfort in evil not lasting.  That is the
> essence of fairy tales and even Harry Potter.  Evil will happen. 
> People will suffer.  I try to find comfort in the fact that it will
> not last forever.  I guess that the pendulum will swing the other 
way.
>  Maybe that is because that is the only comfort I can find, because 
I
> *know* evil things will happen.  Maybe because I have never lived
> under a regime, I don't understand, and cannot understand, what it 
is
> I am trying to comprehend.
Things change only when individual persons act.  There is no cockwork 
mechanism that chnges the blance every so many years.  People will 
always have to pledge "their lives, their fortunes and their sacred 
honors" to achieve change.
> 
> 
> > ...the question should be why it took seventy years of this 
> > horrror and misery for the people to do whatever was necessary to 
> > throw off this yoke.  And countries such as the People's Republic 
> > of China are far better at this than the Soviets ever were.  Of 
> > course, they've only been in power fifty-five years.  We have 
> > fifteen years yet.
> 
> And why does the world do nothing?  Why hasn't the UN done 
anything? 
> Because China says they are shifting into an "UN approved" 
government,
> or because they are so big and their army can crush anyone that 
tries?
> 
China is also a permanent member of the Security council with veto 
power.
> 
> Melody
> who has always asked too many questions and been overly curious

Haggridd, who is still optimistic for humanity




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 29 08:46:31 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:46:31 -0000
Subject: UN intervention (was Animal Farm)
In-Reply-To: <cjcpts+f0cu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjdsp7+islb@eGroups.com>

Melody wrote (about China):

> And why does the world do nothing?  Why hasn't the UN done 
anything? 
> Because China says they are shifting into an "UN approved" 
government,
> or because they are so big and their army can crush anyone that 
tries?

Haggridd has already addressed the immediate issue that China is a 
permanent Security Council member.

However, merely trying to 'do something' about Iraq (a much smaller 
and more clear cut case - I'm not sure the China of today is 
communist in any sense that Mao would recognise) has stretched 
western unity to the breaking point, and it remains to be seen 
whether the USA can really afford to maintain its level of 
engagement, as the US public deficit is steadily increasing 
(remember the discussion of conscription a few days ago?).  Not to 
mention the long term fall-out for international relations as every 
small nation gets jumpy about US intentions towards them.  

I think it's a pretty fine judgement whether the world as a whole 
will be better off in, say, two or five years time than it would 
have been, as a result of the invasion of Iraq.  (It's interesting 
to note, though, that if Bush had gone along with the French at the 
time, we would probably all have invaded anyway six months later, 
and we would have had a *real* test case for the value of 
intervention.)

In general the track record of countries who optimistically try to 
sort out the problems of other countries without their consent is 
dire - even when it may be supposed that the mass of ordinary people 
would support the solution proposed, against the wishes of their own 
government.

Finally, as a historical footnote, western powers *did* interfere 
militarily in the Russian civil war that followed the revolution of 
1917, with little effect.

David




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed Sep 29 09:00:03 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:00:03 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] UN intervention (was Animal Farm)
In-Reply-To: <cjdsp7+islb@eGroups.com>
References: <cjcpts+f0cu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <415B0633.26925.27938FE@localhost>

On 29 Sep 2004 at 8:46, davewitley wrote:

> I think it's a pretty fine judgement whether the world as a whole 
> will be better off in, say, two or five years time than it would 
> have been, as a result of the invasion of Iraq.  (It's interesting 
> to note, though, that if Bush had gone along with the French at the 
> time, we would probably all have invaded anyway six months later, 
> and we would have had a *real* test case for the value of 
> intervention.)

Ah, no, we wouldn't have.

France probably would have done what it's done for the last decade. 
Continued to delay action. That's not certain of course - but when 
the Security Council had failed to act militarily over the course 
of 12 years, and through 16 Security Council Resolutions, there's 
really very little reason to suppose the Security Council would 
have finally decided to go to war.

The UN Security Council is a body that is virtually incapable of 
acting in cases involving any of its members.

Whether intervention was a good idea or not is something that will 
be debated for decades. But it is not at all likely that France 
would have come on board after six months - unless Weapons of Mass 
Destruction had been found (or worse used). And as we haven't been 
able to find them even after invading, it seems unlikely 
inspections would have found anything.

If France (and France is the key, because it's a permanent member 
with veto power, but it's not the only country that was opposed to 
action, of course) had been willing to commit troops to sit in the 
desert for six months alongside US, UK, and Australian troops, then 
there might have been a hope for some other resolution. Because 
that would have convinced people that France would eventually 
support action if needed, and also *might* have convinced the Iraqi 
government that this time things were going to go beyond rhetoric 
at the UN.

But, basically, there is no reason to suppose France would ever 
have supported action unless WMDs were used or found.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 29 09:59:24 2004
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:59:24 -0000
Subject: Invasion to Iraq (was Re: UN intervention (was Animal Farm)
In-Reply-To: <415B0633.26925.27938FE@localhost>
Message-ID: <cje11s+amm0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> 
> Whether intervention was a good idea or not is something that will 
> be debated for decades. But it is not at all likely that France 
> would have come on board after six months - unless Weapons of Mass 
> Destruction had been found (or worse used). And as we haven't been 
> able to find them even after invading, it seems unlikely 
> inspections would have found anything.

Which seems to show that there were never any WMDs at all . I don't 
know whether I'm reading you correctly, but do you think that Iraq 
should have been invaded *regardless* of the WMD issue? 

Naama







From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed Sep 29 10:43:33 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:43:33 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Invasion to Iraq (was Re: UN intervention (was Animal Farm)
In-Reply-To: <cje11s+amm0@eGroups.com>
References: <415B0633.26925.27938FE@localhost>
Message-ID: <415B1E75.26348.2D7FB99@localhost>

On 29 Sep 2004 at 9:59, naamagatus wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
> <drednort at a...> wrote:
> > 
> > Whether intervention was a good idea or not is something that will 
> > be debated for decades. But it is not at all likely that France 
> > would have come on board after six months - unless Weapons of Mass 
> > Destruction had been found (or worse used). And as we haven't been 
> > able to find them even after invading, it seems unlikely 
> > inspections would have found anything.
> 
> Which seems to show that there were never any WMDs at all . I don't 
> know whether I'm reading you correctly, but do you think that Iraq 
> should have been invaded *regardless* of the WMD issue? 

Well, personally I'm not convinced that there were no WMDs. Please 
understand that this something I have had to study, so my opinion 
isn't just coming from nowhere on this. I haven't just read 
newspaper reports, I have read the full published reports of bodies 
such as UNSCOM.

I think it's unlikely there were any very large stockpiles. However 
there were certainly small amounts of some substances (because they 
have been found) and there may well have been small stockpiles that 
were moved out of Iraq (most likely to Syria, with or without the 
cooperation of the Syrian government - hopefully with, as I'm much 
more comfortable with this material in the Syrian governments hands 
than I am in the hands of certain other groups). But these 
stockpiles, if they existed, were almost certainly moved prior to 
the time that any inspectors would have found them.

There could also still be stockpiles in Iraq - weapons caches from 
World War II are still being found in Germany today. For that 
matter, there are pesistant rumours of World War II chemical 
weapons stored somewhere under Melbourne, Australia (where I live) 
- finding every trace, every cache is difficult. Large scale caches 
in Iraq are fairly unlikely - but I wouldn't be astounded if 
something was found.

Part of the problem is that Iraq has admitted to having had certain 
stockpiles of weapons in the past - and the amounts of certain 
chemical agents that they admitted having would leave clear 
evidence of their destruction if they'd been destroyed. The weapons 
inspectors were not just tasked with finding weapons, but also 
evidence of destruction - and so far, as well as having found no 
large stockpiles of weapons they also found anywhere near enough 
evidence of destruction to indicate the weapons are destroyed. You 
can't just pour most of this stuff down a drain, and in some case, 
Iraq had tonnes of the material.

But to get to your question, I think Saddam Hussein needed to be 
removed from office. It is clear that even if Iraq didn't have any 
current stores of weapons of mass destruction, it maintained plans 
to begin development again if it ever got the opportunity, and Iraq 
therefore still posed a real potential threat (even if it was not 
an actual threat). Saddam Hussein was also a brutal dictator who 
murdered many thousands of his own citizens, and as a matter of 
principle I believe such pople should be removed from power.

Yes, there have been worse dictators than Saddam Hussein in Iraq, 
and the world has sat back and watched them. But in the case of 
Iraq there was a clear difference. And that clear difference is 
that the UN Security Council had taken some action. I am entirely 
in favour of the United Nations Security Council working to avoid 
war. I am absolutely in favour of the UN Security Council trying to 
resolve these issues through diplomatic means, and I wish the 
Security Council would do so more often. But there are limits.

The Security Council tried for twelve years to resolve this matter 
with measures short of total war. It tried diplomatic pressure, it 
tried offering incentives, it tried sanctions of various forms, and 
it sanctioned limited surgical strikes.

In this case, none of those methods worked - in others they might 
have done. Iraq actually represents one of the rare occasions that 
the UN Security Council functioned as it was designed to do - up 
until 2002. But it was always clearly envisaged that if the 
measures short of war failed, the UN Security Council would 
sanction war to remove a government or to deal with a potential 
threat.

The whole system is based on the understanding that, in the final 
analysis, the Security Council will back military action if all 
else failed. When the Security Council fails to act on that 
understanding, it greatly reduces its effectiveness. Nothing is 
less effective than a threat that will not be carried out.

The fundamental problem is the veto system. Now there are reasons 
why the veto system exists. It was necessary to get the USSR (and 
to a lesser extent the US) to sign onto the UN Charter - and it was 
critical to ensure both those nations were involved, as the League 
of Nations failed partly because of the absence of a major power. 
But what it means is that the Security Council - a body of 15 
members, with 5 permanent members - can be crippled by one nation. 
A vote of 14-1 in favour of something will fail - if the one is the 
US, Russia, France, China or the UK.

Unanimity in world affairs if extremely unusual.

Because the interim steps had been tried over the 12 years, if the 
state of affairs in Iraq had been allowed to continue, it would 
have sent a clear message to the world that in the final analysis, 
the UN Security Council would not take action. And nobody else 
would either.

I would have preferred the UN Security Council to have discharged 
its duties. But it didn't.

And I would have preferred, if possible, another way had been found 
to remove Saddam Hussein - but it's difficult to see any way that 
might have worked at this point, short of assasination - and 
historically, that has virtually never worked well. And in his 
case, it's rather likely his successor would have been just as bad.

If this ever happens again, I think the United Nations Security 
Council will probably work - because its members now understand 
that failure to act, means being rendered irrelevant (and the 
Security Council was virtually rendered irrelevant and impotent - 
it wouldn't sanction war but it was incapable of condemning it 
either).

But it's also now clearly understood that even if the UN Security 
Council is impotent, nations cannot assume that that means they 
will be allowed to do what they like within their own borders, with 
impunity.

I believed there were large stockpiles of WMDs in Iraq. It appears 
I was wrong. I find that fact slightly embarassing - I don't like 
being fooled anymore than anyone else does - but in the end, I 
think the removal of Saddam Hussein was a massive positive.

My opinion on that may change as events unfold in Iraq. The 
security situation needs to be brought under control - and it isn't 
brought under control to a much greater extent over the next year, 
that will be a massive indictment of the invasion.

But personally I think it will be brought under control.

War should always be a last resort - but when you've tried 
mesasures short of war for 12 years, there's a time when somebody 
has to admit that what is being tried isn't working.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 29 11:41:17 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:41:17 -0000
Subject: chat reminder / Sunday chat
In-Reply-To: <cjaq9m+mgik@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cje70t+6frh@eGroups.com>

Kelley wrote:

> Fwiw, Sunday chat begins at 11 am Pacific, noon Mountain, 1 pm 
> Central, 2 pm Atlantic, and 7 pm UK time.  I've not worked out the 
> start times for elsewhere around the globe, but if someone would 
like 
> to supply that info, it'd be great...

I've been meaning (in an idle sort of way, since it's not a time I 
can usually make anyway) what the statement about not changing for 
daylight saving means.  Do you mean that we keep the same clock time 
(in which case there is a slight issue as we don't always all change 
on the same day), or that we keep constant solar time, so that the 
clock time is an hour different in the summer?

It probably doesn't matter, as I think chat just starts when people 
turn up - there's no formal opening - but I find that sentence 
confusing.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 29 12:01:47 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:01:47 -0000
Subject: Banned Books Week - question
In-Reply-To: <cjber3+jrn6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cje87b+u3u2@eGroups.com>

Sarah wrote:

> Joining this debate a little late, but getting back to Harry and 
JKR -
>  the wizarding world obviously feel there is a need for certain 
> literature to be restricted - I want to know who decides on the 
> content of the restricted section in the Hogwarts Library?  Would 
it 
> just be Dumbledore, all the teachers or the Governors?  Surely 
> someone like Lucius Malfoy would want his children to learn about 
the 
> dark arts as part of a full education.

I guess that for the wizarding world, there are other considerations 
than the effect of reading a book.  Tom Riddle's diary and the 
Monster Book of Monsters show that their books don't only act on the 
mind.

This does suggest an idea for an icon for your blog or 
website: "Don't burn books... stab them with a basilisk fang".

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 29 12:36:56 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:36:56 -0000
Subject: Pigs have wings (was Animal Farm)
In-Reply-To: <cjc5hh+7hva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjea98+d464@eGroups.com>

Haggridd wrote:

>  Orville's thesis is that the Communists 
> had set out to achieve brutal power consciously, with malice 
> aforethought, and planned each step of the way.  

and even Wilbur couldn't make communism fly.

:D




From przepla at gmail.com  Wed Sep 29 12:50:40 2004
From: przepla at gmail.com (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:50:40 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Invasion to Iraq (was Re: UN intervention (was Animal Farm)
In-Reply-To: <cje11s+amm0@eGroups.com>
References: <415B0633.26925.27938FE@localhost> <cje11s+amm0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <687a22090409290550a05d578@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:59:24 -0000, naamagatus <naama_gat at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Which seems to show that there were never any WMDs at all . I don't
> know whether I'm reading you correctly, but do you think that Iraq
> should have been invaded *regardless* of the WMD issue?
> 

My views at that matter are very radical. I believe that Iraq should
be invaded. At least Iraqi people get rid of Sadam Hussain. But later
North Korea should be invaded too. And Belarus, Cuba and many poverty
and civil war stricken African countries should be invaded as well. In
many countries people are suffering and civilised world does nothing.
Only solution to save those people is to install (by force if
necessary) everywhere in the world democratic governments based on
local customs and local people.

Unfortunately in case of Iraq invasion, there is better chance that
Iraq was invaded because Dubya felt that he must be better than his
daddy, than WMDs and Hussain's attrocities combined.

I can not share my belief that deaths in Iraq are thanks to serious
mismanagement and misunderstandings on behalf of US commands. There is
Polish saying: "to behave like an elephant in the china shop" -- i.e.
very clumsy and breaking many things.  It looks like US troops are
behaving like that, and in the effect there is spiral of violence
similar to that in the Israel/Palestine. To show the values of
democracy Iraqi people should be treated with more kindler. Even after
bombings and killings, to show that US troops came in peace every
Iraqi should be treated as US president himself. In short they should
be nice despite the not-niceness of some Iraqis.

I am a Pole and my country actively participate with Iraq occupation.
There is even a Polish occupational zone.

-- 
Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki



From olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org  Wed Sep 29 14:56:25 2004
From: olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org (olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:56:25 +0200
Subject: UN and Iraq
Message-ID: <BC218FC1-1227-11D9-8E01-000A95665DE8@m4x.org>

Many issues have been raised by Shaun's post.

One is whether or not the invasion of Iraq was desirable.
Another is whether or not it was legal in terms of international law.
Yet another one is whether or not it would be desirable to modify 
international law to allow operation of this kind.

About these three issues, only the second one has a clear cut answer in 
my opinion. The invasion of Iraq was illegal. Only the Security Council 
has the authority to allow the use of force. In that case, it did not. 
The only other options is self-defense. As far as we knew then (and now 
incidentally), Iraq had no military plans against other countries nor 
weapons of mass destruction aimed at its neighbors. The case for 
self-defense being close, the invasion was and remains illegal, as the 
UN Secretary General reminded a few days ago.

Would it be desirable to modify the UN so that this kind of 
intervention becomes legal? Maybe, it depends on what modifications are 
proposed I guess. In Shaun's text, the veto system is pointed out as a 
big problem. I agree enthusiastically.

However, I would like to remind that France did not veto any resolution 
on Iraq. The United States (nor any member of the coalition) did not 
bother to suggest one. US officials at that time have argued that they 
couldn't see the point as France was going to veto it anyway. We will 
never know what would have happened, but my guess is France would never 
have had to veto it for the reason the resolution would have been 
rejected the standard way (more people voting against than in favor). 
This may have been different at another time (with more pro-war nations 
in the Security Council) but at the time of the vote, the diplomatic 
way did not look too good for the US. According to 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UN_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_war 
only 4 countries out of the nine needed declared unambiguously their 
intention to vote in favor of a resolution calling for the use of 
force.

So veto has not been a problem in this particularly case. As a side 
note, I would like to remind that in the past 30 years (since 1976 to 
be accurate), US has used its veto right 67 times, UK 19 times, France 
12 times, USSR/Russia 9 times and China twice. If we are to consider a 
reform of the veto system, I dare say we can expect more opposition 
from the US than from any other country.

Last but not least, the more moral question of whether or not war in 
Iraq was desirable. My belief is that it is a good thing to get rid of 
a harsh dictator and mass-murderer, as was Saddam Hussein, but that 
international laws are the only thing we have to ensure peace, so that 
they should be followed. Indeed, if invading the country of a harsh 
dictator is ok, then Saddam was right to invade Kuwait in 1991, as 
Kuwait was far from being a democracy then (nor now by the way). Do we 
want a world like that? I personally don't. Besides, I am quite sure 
that if the member of the Security Council really wanted to overthrew 
dictators around the world, they could easily find regimes deemed 
horrible by human rights association that they nonetheless happily 
supports. Maybe cutting off their support until free elections were 
organized would be a better idea than direct invasion.

I feel a bit uncomfortable in defending in this post a position so 
close to the one defended by my country last year. I can assure you 
that I have no problem openly criticizing my country and its government 
on any issue, domestic on international. However, on that particularly 
point, I happen to agree with its official stand.

Regards,

Olivier




From przepla at gmail.com  Wed Sep 29 15:22:58 2004
From: przepla at gmail.com (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:22:58 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom, and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
References: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:49:33 -0400 (EDT), Dina Lerret
<redina at silverbloom.net> wrote:
> 
> I know the upcoming elections are important but I'm of the mindset you
> shouldn't mix politics at fandom-specific sites.  I've seen Journalfen do
> this too and I was also disappointed then.  Personal sites are fine and
> all but... The Leaky Cauldron? :-\

For us Europeans the real question is: Will they put similar
announcement when there will be elections for European Parliament? ;-)

-- 
Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki



From lists at heidi8.com  Wed Sep 29 15:35:02 2004
From: lists at heidi8.com (Heidi)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:35:02 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom, and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
	 <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5913e6f804092908353ba53d77@mail.gmail.com>

Przemyslaw Plaskowicki asked:
<<For us Europeans the real question is: Will they put similar
announcement when there will be elections for European Parliament? ;-)>>


Well, it depends. Do you have to register to vote more than a month
before the actual elections? If you do, then yes, we'd happily do a
reminder a few days before registration closes, as it does next week
in much of the US. A lot of people outside the US may not realise that
if you don't register to vote at least a month before an election, you
cannot vote in the election. California, Massachusetts, Alabama and
other states allow registration up until two weeks before the
election, though, and Maine, being sensible, allows same-day
registration.

Heidi



From libtax10375 at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 29 15:45:15 2004
From: libtax10375 at earthlink.net (Leeann McCullough)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:45:15 -0400
Subject: GOF script
References: <1096402567.1823.7504.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c4a63b$51829490$9d18ef04@CPQ16151965929>

I just finished reading this and thought you all might find it interesting:
http://www.pensieve.net/gofscript1.htm
It is a first task excerpt from the GOF script. A few things flew (no pun
intended) out at me.
Let me know what you think!
Leeann





From redina at silverbloom.net  Wed Sep 29 18:12:42 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:12:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom,
      and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
    <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3932.4.47.27.222.1096481562.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Przemyslaw Plaskowicki said:

> For us Europeans the real question is: Will they put similar
> announcement when there will be elections for European Parliament? ;-)

{chuckle}

Personally, I'm not voting because my mom isn't.

My mom is pro-Bush (my parents are Republicans, I'm registered as a
Republican) and I'm pro-Kerry, and we got into a rather *long* argument
that spiraled beyond politics.  In the end, if we're going to cancel each
other out, then why bother and it created a temporary 'peace'.

Some days, I'm curious what it could've been like to be in a family that
didn't constantly fight. {g}

Dina





From plungy116 at aol.com  Wed Sep 29 18:33:00 2004
From: plungy116 at aol.com (Sarah)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:33:00 -0000
Subject: T - Rex and JKR
In-Reply-To: <cjco5r+qlqf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjev4s+qlqa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kennymod" <kennymod at y...> 
wrote:
>  Has anyone ever heard JKR talk about or get asked about T Rex 
(Marc 
> Bolan)?  (70s English pop glam mod superstar).  I was reading a bio 
> of Marc Bolan and it stated he had a close friend or relative 
(could 
> have also been David Bowie's girlfriend at the time) who was named 
> Hermione and on an early T Rex lp (cd) there is a song 
> called "Trelawney Lawn".  His first single was called "The Wizard" 
> and had a book of poetry, The Warlock of Love.  (see Allmusic.com 
> bio).  His folk boogie music and wobbly voice is what I'd expect 
> from the Wierd Sisters.  Any mentions of "White Swans" in the HP 
> books, it was T Rex's firsr big hit?
>  
> K
I'm a big Marc Bolan fan (he would have been 57 tomorrow )and have 
often thought that he would have fitted right into JKR's wizarding 
world "He was a wizard, he was, he was my friend he'll be yours 
too".  T-Rex's first hit was *Ride* a white swan - which is even more 
in keeping with the magical creatures Harry encounters (and rides).  
Most of their early "folky" music is based around Tolkeinesque ideas 
of fantasy and myth, and he was often refered to as a pixie.
Sorry I'm rambling now, but Marc Bolan and Harry Potter are 2 of my 
favourite things...but in answer to the question I have never heard 
of JKR mentioning him or his music.
Sarah xx




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 19:19:40 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:19:40 -0000
Subject: My witch ancestor (Martha Carrier)
In-Reply-To: <cie85t+5eff@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjf1sc+106r3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley"
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Carol wrote, of Martha Carrier:
> 
> > "Queen of the Hebrews," 
> 
> > It turns out that Martha's husband, a
> > gigantic Welshman who lived into his nineties
> 
> > in her fifties and still having children.
> 
> Sounds like her kids were half-blood princes, then
> 
> David

Not exactly. They testified against her and "admitted" that they were
witches themselves (though they got off in exchange for their
testimony and their mother didn't). I hope they were properly ashamed
of themselves in later life!

I can't find anything with the "Queen of the Hebrews" phrase, though I
know I didn't make it up, but here's a link to a summary of the
testimony, complete with "rampant hag" and "Queen of Hell," if
anyone's interested:

http://www.hawthorneinsalem.org/Literature/Quakers&Witches/YoungGoodmanBrown/MMD826.html

Martha's son Richard, mentioned in item IV, is the one I'm descended
from. Voldemort would envy them their supposed powers!

Carol, who swears she's never struck anyone deaf by looking at them or
attended a "Diabolical Sacrament"




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 19:27:19 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:27:19 -0000
Subject: JKR site update -- help please! (spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cin6kh+9k39@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjf2an+i46a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "garybec" <garybec at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "maidne" <maidne at y...> wrote:
> > I've looked on that darn bulletin board a dozen times, and there 
> are 
> > no toothpicks there!  I've even emptied my cache and deleted my 
> > cookies so I'm starting completely from scratch, but still no 
> > toothpicks!  What is going on?
> > Thanks,
> > Susan
> 
> Did you try potterskeys.com yet?  That might be of help.  Also, do 
> you have the other things yet?  When I was in the rubbish room, I 
> clicked the eggs right away and forgot I did, started finding other 
> clues, came back to find the eggs, but no eggs.  And when I  found 
> everything else it just the reward just appeared.  Perhaps you 
> already have them?  If not, try the potterskeys.com
> 
> Good Luck
> Becki

Carol adds:

Don't read this post if you don't want to know about the clues, though
I think the secret has been given away already.
* 
*
*
* 
*
* 
* 
*
*
*
* 
*
* 
If you carefully watch the Extra Stuff page as it loads, you'll see
where the toothpicks or sticks or whatever they are are hidden. I
can't remember whether you have to wait for Peeves to come and blow
something away or whether you can click on them right away. I think
the latter.

Carol




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 19:37:51 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:37:51 -0000
Subject: bubbles (Spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <ciqqj3+2hcn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjf2uf+h38r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "animalspussycat"
<animalspussycat at y...> wrote:
> jbenne27:
> > I found them but what do they do?
>  
>  
> -I got a picture of Nearly Headless Nick, after I got the other stuff.
> 
> "animalspussycat"

Carol adds:
* (spoiler space)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

They're one of three potion ingredients, the others being toothpicks
(or twigs or hair) and the egg shells in the rubbish room. When you
have all three, the sketch of the supposedly Elizabethan nearly
Headless Nick will appear--though how someone who died in 1492 could
be Elizabethan is beyond my feeble comprehension.

Carol




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 19:45:48 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:45:48 -0000
Subject: Halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <cjck5v+hpfd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjf3dc+j1ea@eGroups.com>

Yes, my three year old housemate is wearing the dragon costume, so we 
(one Hufflepuff, one Ravenclaw, and two Hermiones) must take a 
picture with him!

For the owl, I'd recommend what I did for animal costumes in the 
past: find white craft fur at a fabric store, trace and cut out a 
front/back outline that fits your baby (leave slits in the lower side 
of the wings for his hands) and sew the edges together on the wrong 
sides, then turning it inside out.  You can have a white hood for the 
head with the baby's face underneath, and affi a stuffed orange beak 
and big eyes just above.  Use stuffed orange beak material for the 
talons at the bottom above baby's feet too.

Well, that's what I'd to.  >:)

A.J.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 19:56:54 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:56:54 -0000
Subject: doxie / spider help!!! (Spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <ciul5h+3iv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjf426+cevq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" <spin01 at a...>
wrote:
> I have been to the JKR site so often it is now in my favorite 
> places.  I have 5 things in my scrap book but can't seem to catch the 
> spider and my marble does not ever glow so am not able to do that 
> part either.  I read that someone had the watch change to show 12 
> hands.  Is that the wrist watch in the bottom of the site?  I have 
> not had that happen either.  I have the following things in the scrap 
> book   
> ancient drawings pg 2, 3, and 4
> page of doodlings page 2 and very early page of philosopher's stone
> 
> so what am I missing and how do I get it?  I have went to potters key 
> site but it didn't help.  thanks for anyone who can help.  If you 
> want to email me seperate from the list that is fine.  thanks
> sherry


Carol responds:

If you don't want scrapbook hints, please skip this message!
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*


To get the marble, just wait for Peeves to come. You'll hear the wind
blowing and the watchface will turn gold and show twelve hands instead
of two. You'll also see the doxy. The marble will glow blue and you
can click on it then. When you do, the scrapbook item will appear.
(BTW, Peeves comes to all the pages and knocks things over or blows
them away or writes on the mirror. Just be patient and wait ten
minutes or so. It will happen.)

As for the doxy being the spider, potterskey.com is simply wrong. The
doxy appears when Peeves comes but does nothing except fly across the
page. Like the fly and the moth, he can't be caught. The spider crawls
over the Daily News until you catch him and then he disappears. If you
already have the other three potion ingredients, your scrapbook item
will appear when you click on him. (That's the tricky part--if you
click on him at the wrong time, you'll just get the newspaper to open
up. Wait till he's holding still, make sure there's no word bubble
with "News" in it, and click. You've got him.)

Good luck.

Carol




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 20:01:29 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:01:29 -0000
Subject: bubbles (Spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjf2uf+h38r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjf4ap+hpma@eGroups.com>


> Carol adds:
> * (spoiler space)
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> 
> They're one of three potion ingredients, the others being toothpicks
> (or twigs or hair) and the egg shells in the rubbish room. When you
> have all three, the sketch of the supposedly Elizabethan nearly
> Headless Nick will appear--though how someone who died in 1492 could
> be Elizabethan is beyond my feeble comprehension.
> 
> Carol

Well, there is a bit of uncertainty about the date of his death, since
in PS/SS he mentions not having eaten in 400 years. That would put his
demise in about 1592; is that Elizabethan? I suppose I ought to have
looked it up, but it seems that you may already know (I'm being lazy).

Annemehr





From Roolover93 at comcast.net  Wed Sep 29 20:55:09 2004
From: Roolover93 at comcast.net (lillibug93)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:55:09 -0000
Subject: The Dark Mark Site
Message-ID: <cjf7fd+edk0@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone! Happy Wednesday. I am curious.... Has anyone here been
having trouble getting on the Dark Mark website? I haven't been able
to get on it for over 2 weeks. Every time I try it says that the
operation timed out. Plus, I haven't gotten any email from them about
new topics on their forum boards. If anyone has any info about this I
would appreciate it. Thanks! 


Lillian





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 22:26:10 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:26:10 -0000
Subject: chat reminder
In-Reply-To: <cjcnhn+kivg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfcq2+7e6b@eGroups.com>

Jen wrote: 
> I actually made it into the chat room the other day, but then didn't 
> know what to do. This sounds silly but I've never been in a chat 
> before--do you just start typing? Wait for a comment to come up on 
> screen? I exited out after about a minute because I felt foolish. 
> 
> Any hints, veteran chatters?
> 
> Jen, who has no problem writing if she can edit but doesn't know if 
> she can hack the chat room.

Hi, Jen. I have essentially the same problem and have only braved the
chat room a few times, usually to find no one there because no one is
in my time zone (Arizona, which is on Mountain Standard Time when the
rest of the Rocky Mountain states are on Mountain Daylight Time--and
England is, what? eight or more hours ahead of us). Anyway, the one
time I found people there, I dared to type in something brilliant like
"Is anybody home?" and actually did get responses. But I had a hard
time keeping up with the chat for three reasons: I have a 56K modem
(boo!); I have trouble making short, pithy comments under a paragraph
long; and I compulsively edit my remarks as if they were posts to a
group like this one. I may give it another shot if I'm ever home alone
on a Sunday and actually remember the chat before it's over, but it
isn't easy for those of us who can't bear to make a typo or word a
sentence awkwardly. (I know, I know. Typos and unclear sentences
sometimes escape me, but they're painful for me when I see them posted!)

Just letting you know that you're not alone in having chatophobia.

Carol




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed Sep 29 23:01:07 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:01:07 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re : UN and Iraq
In-Reply-To: <BC218FC1-1227-11D9-8E01-000A95665DE8@m4x.org>
Message-ID: <415BCB53.9287.57B5AFE@localhost>

On 29 Sep 2004 at 16:56, olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org wrote:

> Many issues have been raised by Shaun's post.
> 
> One is whether or not the invasion of Iraq was desirable.
> Another is whether or not it was legal in terms of international law.
> Yet another one is whether or not it would be desirable to modify 
> international law to allow operation of this kind.
> 
> About these three issues, only the second one has a clear cut answer in 
> my opinion. The invasion of Iraq was illegal. Only the Security Council 
> has the authority to allow the use of force. In that case, it did not. 
> The only other options is self-defense. As far as we knew then (and now 
> incidentally), Iraq had no military plans against other countries nor 
> weapons of mass destruction aimed at its neighbors. The case for 
> self-defense being close, the invasion was and remains illegal, as the 
> UN Secretary General reminded a few days ago.

Sorry, it's not a clear cut answer at all - and I note that the 
Secretary General shortly after saying the war was illegal, 
'clarified' his statements to say that that wasn't what he meant to 
say (probably after he actually spoke to some international 
lawyers).

Under international law, it is, in fact, very likely that the 
invasion of Iraq was legal - whether it should have been or not is 
another question. But the 1990/91 law ended in a cease fire that 
was contingent on Iraq acceding to certain demands. Iraq failed to 
accede to those demands and under international laws relating to 
cease fires, that means the war can continue. Further US and other 
nations aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones were fired upon on 
numerous occasions by Iraqi troops. In international law, 
deliberately targeting the military assets of a nation is a clear 
casus belli.

The major issue in international law is Iraq's repeated violation 
of the cease fire agreement which was put in place in 1991. It 
wasn't just one violation, it was numerous violations, and the 
requirement for Iraq to comply was stated and restated by the 
Security Council on several occasions, so it wasn't a dead issue.

The WMD issue created another casus belli, which might now be 
considered invalid - but it wasn't the only one.

The Security Council could have made the war illegal, by passing a 
resolution - but it couldn't do that either, again because of the 
veto power.

> However, I would like to remind that France did not veto any resolution 
> on Iraq. The United States (nor any member of the coalition) did not 
> bother to suggest one. US officials at that time have argued that they 
> couldn't see the point as France was going to veto it anyway. We will 
> never know what would have happened, but my guess is France would never 
> have had to veto it for the reason the resolution would have been 
> rejected the standard way (more people voting against than in favor). 
> This may have been different at another time (with more pro-war nations 
> in the Security Council) but at the time of the vote, the diplomatic 
> way did not look too good for the US. According to 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UN_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_war 
> only 4 countries out of the nine needed declared unambiguously their 
> intention to vote in favor of a resolution calling for the use of 
> force.

That is correct - but if France hadn't been willing to veto, it is 
likely that at least 9 of the 15 nations involved, possibly more, 
would have supported the UN Resolution. A significant number were 
not willing to support it unless France was, because a situation in 
which the Security Council rendered a majority vote, only to have 
it vetoed by France, could have damaged the Security Council almost 
beyond repair. And that was not worth risking.

The US and the UK did draft resolutions - but didn't present them 
for exactly the same reason. Because if they'd presented them and 
they'd been blocked by France, that would have more or less 
destroyed all credibility that the Security Council has.

The Security Council is important - too important to risk 
destroying it over a fairly minor issue like Iraq (minor being a 
relative term - but the Security Council has been instrumental in 
stopping at least one nuclear war from happening - compared to 
that, Iraq is a minor issue).

The US *might* have been willing to push matters and risk the 
Security Council - I doubt it, but it's not impossible. The UK most 
certainly was not.

It's by no means certain that a majority would have passed in the 
Security Council - but it is quite possible.
 
> So veto has not been a problem in this particularly case. As a side 
> note, I would like to remind that in the past 30 years (since 1976 to 
> be accurate), US has used its veto right 67 times, UK 19 times, France 
> 12 times, USSR/Russia 9 times and China twice. If we are to consider a 
> reform of the veto system, I dare say we can expect more opposition 
> from the US than from any other country.

I agree that the US is likely to resist - all the countries are 
likely to resist. That's the problem. Getting rid of the veto power 
is not in the interests of any of the veto nations.

But the thing is part of the reason for those figures is that since 
the 1970s, the US, UK, and France rarely raised issues in the 
Security Council when they knew that Russia or China would veto. 
There was no point, and doing so simply risked the Security 
Councils credibility. On the other hand, resolutions aimed 
specifically at Israel (the vast majority of those vetoed by the 
United States) became common - the Security Council really became a 
forum to bash Israel (I'm not saying Israel is never in the wrong - 
but equally problematic actions by other nations of the same power 
level as Israel virtually *never* attract Security Council 
attention).

Prior to 1976, vetoes ran as 113 by the Soviet Union, 12 by the 
United States, 13 by the United Kingdom, 6 by France, and 3 by 
China (1 by Nationalist China, 2 by Communist China).

The 113 vetoes (out of 147) by the Soviet Union were seriously 
harming the integrity and reputation of the Security Council - so 
the western powers stopped presenting issues they knew Russia was 
likely to veto, because they were trying to protect the Security 
Council. That's the reason why since 1976, Russia has rarely vetoed 
anything - because most things they would have vetoed, never 
reached it.
 
> Last but not least, the more moral question of whether or not war in 
> Iraq was desirable. My belief is that it is a good thing to get rid of 
> a harsh dictator and mass-murderer, as was Saddam Hussein, but that 
> international laws are the only thing we have to ensure peace, so that 
> they should be followed. Indeed, if invading the country of a harsh 
> dictator is ok, then Saddam was right to invade Kuwait in 1991, as 
> Kuwait was far from being a democracy then (nor now by the way). Do we 
> want a world like that? I personally don't. Besides, I am quite sure 
> that if the member of the Security Council really wanted to overthrew 
> dictators around the world, they could easily find regimes deemed 
> horrible by human rights association that they nonetheless happily 
> supports. Maybe cutting off their support until free elections were 
> organized would be a better idea than direct invasion.

The problem is it doesn't work very often.

Iraq was under sanctions for over a decade. These sanctions were 
largely intended to force his removal from office. They didn't 
succeed.

There's nothing wrong with trying those methods - because there are 
rare occasions, where they are successful. But when you've tried 
them for 12 years, and they haven't done any good, it's time to do 
something else.

International law does not ensure peace.  In fact the number of 
wars increased every decade between the 1940s and the 1990s.    

The duration of the average war has increased over time, as well.  

War should never be engaged in lightly - but history shows us that 
often refusal to fight a war, simply means fighting a worse war in 
a few years time.  

The clearest example of this is World War II - where Germany was 
allowed to ignore the conditions of the peace treaty that ended 
World War I and build up its armies, and then when it started to 
occupy its neighbours, the world was so desperate to avoid war - 
that to begin with, it let Hitler get away with it. Thus ensuring a 
worse war).

And while Kuwait is certainly no bastion of freedom, it has never 
compared to Iraq under Saddam Hussein - Iraq used chemical weapons 
on its own citizens in acts of deliberate genocide. There are 
plenty of other dictatorships in the world - but relatively few 
have been as brutal as Saddam Hussein's.  


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 23:23:36 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:23:36 -0000
Subject: UN and Iraq
In-Reply-To: <415BCB53.9287.57B5AFE@localhost>
Message-ID: <cjfg5o+ir5b@eGroups.com>

Ah! A whole (polite) thread debating the UN and Iraq, with nobody from
the US in it. It's so refreshing to hear it all from these points of
view -- I've heard it all over and over again over here.  Thanks,
guys; I'll just sit back and read...

Annemehr





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 23:34:41 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:34:41 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <004d01c4a63b$51829490$9d18ef04@CPQ16151965929>
Message-ID: <cjfgqh+u8qj@eGroups.com>

Leeann wrote:
> I just finished reading this and thought you all might find it
interesting:
> http://www.pensieve.net/gofscript1.htm
> It is a first task excerpt from the GOF script. A few things flew
(no pun
> intended) out at me.
> Let me know what you think!


Carol responds (after spoiler space):
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Sounds as if they're making some odd changes. I've heard they're
omitting Percy (How could they? He needs to be there for the Second
Task to prove he's not all git!). Now it looks as if they've
eliminated Ludo Bagman, too--and turned the twins into junior Ludos.
And why does Fred say "Ow!" when Hermione punches *George* on the arm?

Okay, I appreciate the link, but I'd have written the scene differently!

Carol





From spin01 at aol.com  Wed Sep 29 23:46:48 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:46:48 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjfgqh+u8qj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfhh8+9ojr@eGroups.com>

Ok so this is a spoiler question
>>>>>>>
>
>
>
>



>
>
>
>
>
Is this where they are going to start the movie?  waht about the 
whole world cup and omg they can't skip mr weazley in the dursleys 
living room can they?  
sherry <who will be so disappointed if they do>--- In HPFGU-
OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> Leeann wrote:
> > I just finished reading this and thought you all might find it
> interesting:
> > http://www.pensieve.net/gofscript1.htm
> > It is a first task excerpt from the GOF script. A few things flew
> (no pun
> > intended) out at me.
> > Let me know what you think!
> 
> 
> Carol responds (after spoiler space):
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> Sounds as if they're making some odd changes. I've heard they're
> omitting Percy (How could they? He needs to be there for the Second
> Task to prove he's not all git!). Now it looks as if they've
> eliminated Ludo Bagman, too--and turned the twins into junior Ludos.
> And why does Fred say "Ow!" when Hermione punches *George* on the 
arm?
> 
> Okay, I appreciate the link, but I'd have written the scene 
differently!
> 
> Carol




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 00:01:09 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:01:09 -0000
Subject: Scrapbook item (Spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjf4ap+hpma@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfic5+g2q9@eGroups.com>

I (Carol) wrote:
> > * (spoiler space)
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
*
*
*


> > The [bubbles are] one of three potion ingredients, the others
being toothpicks (or twigs or hair) and the egg shells in the rubbish
room. When you have all three, the sketch of the supposedly
Elizabethan nearly Headless Nick will appear--though how someone who
died in 1492 could be Elizabethan is beyond my feeble comprehension.
> > 
> > Carol
> 
Annemehr responded: 
> Well, there is a bit of uncertainty about the date of his death,
since in PS/SS he mentions not having eaten in 400 years. That would
put his demise in about 1592; is that Elizabethan? I suppose I ought
to have looked it up, but it seems that you may already know (I'm
being lazy).


Carol again:
I posted about this on the main site and mentioned the death date
discrepancy there. Yes, 1592 is Elizabethan: Elizabeth I reigned from
1558 to 1603. Her grandfather, Henry Tudor (aka Henry VII even though
his claim to the throne was exceedingly shaky) was king in 1492 and is
noted for refusing to fund Columbus's expedition and for executing a
large number of Yorkist heirs whose claims were better than his. He'd
be a likely candidate for the person ordering Sir Nick's execution if
JKR hadn't come up with a different (and quite silly) story that's
posted on her website as something the editor (quite rightly) thought
should be cut. Anyway, she calls him "Elizabethan" on her website,
suggesting that 400 years (1592) is the date she originally had in
mind, but that would spoil the 500th deathday party in CoS, which
requires a death date of 1492. 

According to a poster at HPFGU, the new Canadian edition of PS removes
the discrepancy by having Sir Nick state that he hasn't eaten in *500*
years. Whether that's the Canadian editor's doing or JKR is slowly
cleaning up the minor Flints, I don't know. But she still has Nick
wearing an Elizabethan-style ruff, which hadn't been invented yet in
1492. (Oh, dear, Maths! Oh, dear! History!)

Carol




From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 30 00:04:56 2004
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:04:56 -0000
Subject: UN and Iraq
In-Reply-To: <cjfg5o+ir5b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfij8+klpi@eGroups.com>

Annemehr wrote:
> Ah! A whole (polite) thread debating the UN and Iraq, with nobody from
> the US in it. It's so refreshing to hear it all from these points of
> view -- I've heard it all over and over again over here.  Thanks,
> guys; I'll just sit back and read...


May I just second this sentiment.  It is so refreshing to see a
intelligent, calm debate for once.  When I brought up "Animal Farm", I
honestly had no intention for this to become about Iraq and the UN,
but I am glad I did now purely for the educational value.  I am
learning a lot.  

With elections here in the US in 35 days and the start of the debates
tomorrow, things are getting at a pitch that makes it hard to listen
and believe anyone.  I think all Americans wish the candidates would
talk as calmly, intelligently, and freely as this short discussion
here has been.  Each side has points.  If they would just present them
so we can decide which we think would be better, we *could* make an
intelligent choice rather than what they seems to want us to decide on
which is candidate is more athletic or charming.


Melody
who now has moved on to "War of the Worlds" and probably will be back
with 100 questions about it too to pose to my wonderful HP professors
of Muggle affairs.   ::big grin::




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 00:17:03 2004
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:17:03 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjfhh8+9ojr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfj9v+bjtt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" <spin01 at a...>
wrote:
> Ok so this is a spoiler question
> >>>>>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Is this where they are going to start the movie?  waht about the 
> whole world cup and omg they can't skip mr weazley in the dursleys 
> living room can they?  
> sherry <who will be so disappointed if they do>

Carol responds:
I don't think they'll start with this scene. The First Task is well
into the school year--November 24 in the book, IIRC. We have to see
Mr. Crouch as his normal self at the QWC and Viktor Krum will need to
be introduced there, too--not to mention all the Dark Mark stuff and
Winky. In fact, I've seen behind-the-scenes photos of the Weasley kids
and Harry and Hermione on their way to the QWC. And Amos Diggory has
been cast, so almost certainly the boot portkey and the interrogation
of Winky will be kept.

I did read somewhere that they've cut out the Dursleys from the GoF
film altogether, meaning that we won't get to see the ton-tongue
toffee scene. But evidently the Weasley twins will be in it quite a
bit despite that cut, even if (as the script excerpt indicates)
they're given Ludo Bagman's lines! OTOH, the Yule Ball *will* be
filmed after all (Parvati and Padma Patil have been cast)--and Rita
Skeeter is definitely in (given lines that aren't in the book). And,
of course, Ralph Fiennes is going to play Voldemort (though he'll have
to be wholly unrecognizable behind snake makeup), but I don't think
Jason Isaacs will show up as Lucius Malfoy. (They'd better not cut him
from OoP, though!)

Carol, wishing they'd eliminate S.P.E.W. and keep everything else, and
hoping there's lots of Snape




From rynnewrites at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 00:18:14 2004
From: rynnewrites at gmail.com (Rynne)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:18:14 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday x3!
Message-ID: <cjfjc6+9rmd@eGroups.com>

Actually, it's only one person's birthday, but poor Rynny has been 
sick and sleeping when she didn't have other responsibilities, and 
so has not been able to wish two people happy birthday on the 27th! 
*ears droop* Rynny is very, very sorry, and promises to shut her 
ears in the oven door once the cake is out of it.

The birthday honorees for September 27th were Dumbledad, who can be 
owled birthday greetings at dumbledad at gmail.com, and Holly Simpson 
(HOLLYDAZE!!!), who can be reached at hollydaze at btinternet.com.  
Many apologies to both of you for the delay!  And then today's 
honoree is Kirstini, who you can owl at kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk.  Do 
send all of them something nice!

Decoration time, and I'm make it extra-special to make up for the 
delay! *pulls out silver flute and starts playing streamers and 
balloons to their places* Ah, aren't they pretty? *grins*

And...now for the cake!  I'll be right back, so everyone just wait 
here... *pops out, and pops back in a moment later with a gigantic 
cake following her* There's enough her for everyone and then some, 
so just dig in!

HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, DUMBLEDAD!
HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, HOLLY!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KIRSTINI!

--Rynny the apologetic birthday elf  





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 00:45:14 2004
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:45:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy birthday x3!
In-Reply-To: <cjfjc6+9rmd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040930004514.99057.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com>

> Decoration time, and I'm make it extra-special to
> make up for the 
> delay! *pulls out silver flute and starts playing
> streamers and 
> balloons to their places* Ah, aren't they pretty?
> *grins*
> 
> And...now for the cake!  I'll be right back, so
> everyone just wait 
> here... *pops out, and pops back in a moment later
> with a gigantic 
> cake following her* There's enough her for everyone
> and then some, 
> so just dig in!
> 
> HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, DUMBLEDAD!
> HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, HOLLY!
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KIRSTINI!
> 

Did I hear music? Hey, there's a party going on! 

*heads for the cake*

Oh, wait, if there's cake, then there are birthdays.
Happy Birthday to all!!!!

Sheryll

=====
Convention Alley rocked! Were *you* there?
http://www.conventionalley.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/community/conventionalley/
http://www.cafeshops.com/conalley 





______________________________________________________________________ 
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From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 03:48:08 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:48:08 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjfgqh+u8qj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfvlo+mre@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> And why does Fred say "Ow!" when Hermione punches *George* on the 
arm?

Corsican Twins?  >:)

A.J.




From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 03:49:25 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:49:25 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjfhh8+9ojr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjfvo5+a9aj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
<spin01 at a...> wrote:
> Ok so this is a spoiler question
> >>>>>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Is this where they are going to start the movie?  waht about the 
> whole world cup and omg they can't skip mr weazley in the dursleys 
> living room can they? 

No and yes.

There are photos up already of the scene where the group in muggle 
clothes goes up the hill to the portkey to the world cup.

The Dursleys aren't in it.

A.J.




From redina at silverbloom.net  Thu Sep 30 04:09:54 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:09:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Jon Stewart on the Charlie Rose show now
Message-ID: <4170.4.47.27.222.1096517394.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

FYI, PBS is airing Jon Stewart (The Daily Show) on the Charlie Rose show
now... which is 12am EST.

After, I want to catch Nova.

Dina




From hp_lexicon at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 04:43:41 2004
From: hp_lexicon at yahoo.com (hp_lexicon)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 04:43:41 -0000
Subject: Brit-Speak: Vernon Dursley is a /Director/.
In-Reply-To: <20040819212031.10942.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjg2tt+vvqh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sam Edwards 
> 
> 
> Hello Steve,
> 
>             First my appologies to you (and Steve Van Der Aark), 
for crediting you with creating the Lexicon in an earlier post. I 
tried posting an appology earlier but it seems to have gone astray.
> 

Apologies are hardly necessary. At least to me.


> Whether or not Vernon is a or THE sales director will really 
depend on how big a company Grunnings is. The term could be used for 
both. 

Well, the building has at least nine floors, assuming that Grunnings 
isn't sharing it with other firms. Vernon's office is on the ninth 
floor. Sounds like a large company to me.


> 
> Based on the home he owns and his likely salary:
> 
> Surrey is one of the expensive counties in the UK, parts of it 
being an easy, (1hr), commute from London while being fairly leafy, 
suburban and a "nice" place to raise a family. 

If you're curious where Privet Drive is located in Surrey, you can 
find a detailed map on the Lexicon. Privet Drive is located to the 
north and west of Staines, since the nearest rail station is 
Paddington. 

> Anyway. A four bedroomed, detached house in Surrey, similar to 
Privet Drive used in the movies would be priced at roughly  ?285, 
000.

The house as described in the books is a bit less modern than the 
one on the film, however. They did zero in on the right part of 
Surrey, from what I understand, but not the right "era" of home. My 
guess is that the price you mention isn't far off, though. 

I have been wondering as well what position Vernon holds at 
Grunnings. I think a lot of people were assuming that he owned the 
place, but the books don't say that, am I right? Can you 
define "director" for me in one nice sentence that I can add to the 
Strictly British section of the Lexicon?

Thanks
Steve (the OTHER Steve)




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Thu Sep 30 10:11:51 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:11:51 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Re : UN and Iraq
In-Reply-To: <cjfg5o+ir5b@eGroups.com>
References: <415BCB53.9287.57B5AFE@localhost>
Message-ID: <415C6887.21704.7E18569@localhost>

On 29 Sep 2004 at 23:23, annemehr wrote:

> Ah! A whole (polite) thread debating the UN and Iraq, with nobody from
> the US in it. It's so refreshing to hear it all from these points of
> view -- I've heard it all over and over again over here.  Thanks,
> guys; I'll just sit back and read...

I have never seen the point of being impolite in such discussions. 
I want people to take my views seriously and to treat them with 
respect. Of course, that doesn't mean I expect them to necessarily 
agree with me.

Being impolite simply means people are less likely to listen to 
you. Now, I'm not perfect - I do get annoyed sometimes, and 
sometimes that can lead to less than perfect manners. But if people 
want to be taken seriously, it's really in their interests to treat 
others respectfully.




Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From lwilliams15209 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 29 23:45:40 2004
From: lwilliams15209 at yahoo.com (linda williams)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:45:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom,      and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <3932.4.47.27.222.1096481562.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <20040929234540.90873.qmail@web50702.mail.yahoo.com>

Dina Lerret <redina at silverbloom.net> wrote:

Some days, I'm curious what it could've been like to be in a family that
didn't constantly fight. {g}



  Dina,
  
   They have families like that somewhere??  LOL
 
  Linda
  Lurker & lover of all things Slytherin






From olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org  Thu Sep 30 10:51:56 2004
From: olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org (olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:51:56 +0200
Subject: UN and Iraq
Message-ID: <BF0F3B44-12CE-11D9-88A2-000A95665DE8@m4x.org>

Shaun
 > Under international law, it is, in fact, very likely that the
 > invasion of Iraq was legal - whether it should have been or not is
 > another question. But the 1990/91 law ended in a cease fire that
 > was contingent on Iraq acceding to certain demands. Iraq failed to
 > accede to those demands and under international laws relating to
 > cease fires, that means the war can continue. Further US and other
 > nations aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones were fired upon on
 > numerous occasions by Iraqi troops. In international law,
 > deliberately targeting the military assets of a nation is a clear
 > casus belli.
 >
 > The major issue in international law is Iraq's repeated violation
 > of the cease fire agreement which was put in place in 1991. It
 > wasn't just one violation, it was numerous violations, and the
 > requirement for Iraq to comply was stated and restated by the
 > Security Council on several occasions, so it wasn't a dead issue.

I am not an expert in international law, so I formed my opinion by 
referring to scholarly resources. On that particular point, I quoted 
from Phyllis Bennis, a researcher at the Institute for Policy Studies. 
You can hear her whole statement on the controversy on 
www.fair.org/counterspin
According to her, the resolutions condemning Iraq explicitly stated 
what should happen if Iraq violated them, and, still according to her, 
in that case, the Security Council had to decide what consequences 
would follow. This did not happen. The US decided alone that they would 
go to war.

Mrs. Bennis also addresses the claim about the no-fly zones. According 
to her, they are not explicitly part of the resolution, so they cannot 
be used as a reason for military intervention. I would rather believe 
her on that one, as I personally worked for the US Air Force in Saudi 
Arabia during the no-fly zone period and I do remember legal issues 
were raised from times to times.

At any rate, and without entering a subtle discussion on international 
law, it is clear that violation of a UN resolution is not a sufficient 
reason to make an invasion legal. If it were, I am afraid Israel could 
be invaded any time.

 > That is correct - but if France hadn't been willing to veto, it is
 > likely that at least 9 of the 15 nations involved, possibly more,
 > would have supported the UN Resolution. A significant number were
 > not willing to support it unless France was, because a situation in
 > which the Security Council rendered a majority vote, only to have
 > it vetoed by France, could have damaged the Security Council almost
 > beyond repair. And that was not worth risking.

Surely you cannot believe that Shaun. There has been instance of an 
unanimous Security Council resolution vetoed by only one member. The 
only damage it would have done would have been to France. I would have 
been the first to call it a shame, had France vetoed an otherwise 
unanimous resolution. Indeed, I suspect it has happened during the war 
in Algeria, and it was one of the most shameful time in french history. 
Anyway, it is hard to know what would have happened. We know what did 
happen. And on the basis of what did happen, I don't see any reason to 
blame any country for blocking the diplomatic process.

 > Iraq was under sanctions for over a decade. These sanctions were
 > largely intended to force his removal from office. They didn't
 > succeed.

I was rather referring to cutting support from dictators we support. 
Not enemies. I, for one, would be glad to see France ending its support 
to the current tunisian regime. It is possible that some americans feel 
it would be sensible to stop supporting the Saudi monarchy.

 >
 > There's nothing wrong with trying those methods - because there are
 > rare occasions, where they are successful. But when you've tried
 > them for 12 years, and they haven't done any good, it's time to do
 > something else.
 >

But the UN did something else. Inspectors were working in Iraq just 
prior the war. And they were quite satisfied with their working 
condition (largely because of military threat, but still). Was it worth 
it to engage in a war which killed one thousand Americans and more than 
12,000 iraqi civilians?


 > International law does not ensure peace.  In fact the number of
 > wars increased every decade between the 1940s and the 1990s.

They don't, but it's the only thing we have. So I would be in favor of 
following them.

 > And while Kuwait is certainly no bastion of freedom, it has never
 > compared to Iraq under Saddam Hussein - Iraq used chemical weapons
 > on its own citizens in acts of deliberate genocide. There are
 > plenty of other dictatorships in the world - but relatively few
 > have been as brutal as Saddam Hussein's.

I didn't mean to draw a parallel between Kuwait and Iraq. All I wanted 
to say is that if it becomes legal to invade a dictatorship, many 
countries would be in jeopardy. I picked Kuwait, but could have chosen 
dozens of other countries.

Regards,

Olivier





From przepla at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 11:43:06 2004
From: przepla at gmail.com (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:43:06 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom, and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <5913e6f804092908353ba53d77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
	 <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>
	 <5913e6f804092908353ba53d77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <687a2209040930044348bbc012@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:35:02 -0400, Heidi <lists at heidi8.com> wrote:
> Przemyslaw Plaskowicki asked:
> <<For us Europeans the real question is: Will they put similar
> announcement when there will be elections for European Parliament? ;-)>>
> 
> 
> Well, it depends. Do you have to register to vote more than a month
> before the actual elections? If you do, then yes, we'd happily do a
> reminder a few days before registration closes, as it does next week
> in much of the US. A lot of people outside the US may not realise that
> if you don't register to vote at least a month before an election, you
> cannot vote in the election. California, Massachusetts, Alabama and
> other states allow registration up until two weeks before the
> election, though, and Maine, being sensible, allows same-day
> registration.

I can not vouch for every country in the EU, but at least in Poland
(and I believe in other EU members with compulsory national ID cards)
you need to register only when you are living in the place different
than specified on your ID card.  Nevertheless, maybe people need to
register in the UK, since UK does not have compulsory ID cards.


-- 
Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki



From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Thu Sep 30 12:00:16 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:00:16 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: UN and Iraq
In-Reply-To: <BF0F3B44-12CE-11D9-88A2-000A95665DE8@m4x.org>
Message-ID: <415C81F0.24338.844CBC8@localhost>

On 30 Sep 2004 at 12:51, olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org wrote:

> Shaun
>  > Under international law, it is, in fact, very likely that the
>  > invasion of Iraq was legal - whether it should have been or not is
>  > another question. But the 1990/91 law ended in a cease fire that
>  > was contingent on Iraq acceding to certain demands. Iraq failed to
>  > accede to those demands and under international laws relating to
>  > cease fires, that means the war can continue. Further US and other
>  > nations aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones were fired upon on
>  > numerous occasions by Iraqi troops. In international law,
>  > deliberately targeting the military assets of a nation is a clear
>  > casus belli.
>  >
>  > The major issue in international law is Iraq's repeated violation
>  > of the cease fire agreement which was put in place in 1991. It
>  > wasn't just one violation, it was numerous violations, and the
>  > requirement for Iraq to comply was stated and restated by the
>  > Security Council on several occasions, so it wasn't a dead issue.
> 
> I am not an expert in international law, so I formed my opinion by 
> referring to scholarly resources. On that particular point, I quoted 
> from Phyllis Bennis, a researcher at the Institute for Policy Studies. 
> You can hear her whole statement on the controversy on 
> www.fair.org/counterspin

Yes, I am aware of her work and I am also aware that a great many 
experts in international law consider it to be incorrect. Others 
agree with her.

> According to her, the resolutions condemning Iraq explicitly stated 
> what should happen if Iraq violated them, and, still according to her, 
> in that case, the Security Council had to decide what consequences 
> would follow. This did not happen. The US decided alone that they would 
> go to war.

First of all, the United States did not decide alone that it would 
go to war. The decision was taken by the United States, the United 
Kingdom, and the Commonwealth of Australia in the form of a 
Coalition of the Willing, which is a model specifically recognised 
in international law to be used in cases when the United Nations is 
unable, or unwilling to authorise a specific UN force. The Security 
Council may choose to authorise such a coalition, but doesn't need 
to.

Now, the Security Council had the power to decide what *additional* 
consequences or *alternative* consequences could be applied to Iraq 
in the event of failure to comply with the ceasefire.

But unless the Security Council agreed on alternatives, the normal 
consequences in international law of breaching a ceasefire - the 
resumption of hostilities apply.

To agree on alternatives, the Security Council would have had to 
specifically pass a resolution forbidding military action - it 
never did so (and if it had, it would probably have been vetoed).

The thing is international law is incredibly complex. There's no 
clear agreement on what it means and what it doesn't mean in many 
areas.

Basically it comes down to which expert you want to believe.

There's also the issue in international law that a body that cannot 
enforce its rulings has no authority. The Security Council cannot 
enforce its rulings against the Permanent Members, because they can 
veto anything it does.
 
> Mrs. Bennis also addresses the claim about the no-fly zones. According 
> to her, they are not explicitly part of the resolution, so they cannot 
> be used as a reason for military intervention. I would rather believe 
> her on that one, as I personally worked for the US Air Force in Saudi 
> Arabia during the no-fly zone period and I do remember legal issues 
> were raised from times to times.

She's probably correct that the no-fly zones cannot be used as a 
reason for war in and of themselves. However, the fact that Iraq 
fired on US and other aircraft enforcing those zones is a casus 
belli. An attack on a nations military assets is virtually always a 
casus belli. There are no exceptions to that in international law - 
all that can sometimes be argued is that the country fired upon 
might have itself initiated a casus belli.

When Iraq fired on a US aircraft, it committed an act of war. That 
is part of a very simple part of international law.

The only real 'defence' Iraq could have offered is that the 
enforcement of the no-fly zones were acts of war on the part of the 
nations policing them. But that would have required the Security 
Council to decide.

The basic problem in international law is that the US, UK, and 
France set up the no-fly zones to enforce Resolution 688. 

While Resolution 688 does not specifically authorise the no-fly 
zones, it does authorise member states to take unspecified action 
based on that resolution.

De facto, a case can be made that it therefore authorises the no-
fly zones. The Security Council could have, at some stage, ruled 
that they shouldn't be authorised - but never has. China and Russia 
have raised some objections - but chose not to raise the issue in a 
Resolution - and France withdrew from enforcement after a while.

Regardless though of whether or not the No-Fly zones are 
authorised, firing on an aircraft is an act of war.

The problem is there's no clear international law on most of these 
issues except that international law is what the Security Council 
says it is.

There's hundreds of opinions about what other principles of 
international law say.

And that comes back to the veto problem.

> At any rate, and without entering a subtle discussion on international 
> law, it is clear that violation of a UN resolution is not a sufficient 
> reason to make an invasion legal. If it were, I am afraid Israel could 
> be invaded any time.

No, but the difference is the case of Iraq there are 'ceasefire' 
resolutions - there was no peace treaty.  

Not all Security Resolutions resolutions are identical, or have 
identical effects.  

A ceasefire only holds while the ceasefire conditions remain 
intact. It is a special case.  

>  > That is correct - but if France hadn't been willing to veto, it is
>  > likely that at least 9 of the 15 nations involved, possibly more,
>  > would have supported the UN Resolution. A significant number were
>  > not willing to support it unless France was, because a situation in
>  > which the Security Council rendered a majority vote, only to have
>  > it vetoed by France, could have damaged the Security Council almost
>  > beyond repair. And that was not worth risking.
> 
> Surely you cannot believe that Shaun. There has been instance of an 
> unanimous Security Council resolution vetoed by only one member. The 
> only damage it would have done would have been to France. I would have 
> been the first to call it a shame, had France vetoed an otherwise 
> unanimous resolution. 

Please note that I did not claim that there would be a unanimous 
vote (14-1). I don't think there would have been.  

But I do believe a simple majority might well have been achieved 
(not definitely would have been but might have been) if France had 
been willing to make a commitment not to veto. And a quorum is 
possible.

The 15 members of the Security Council at the time were the United 
States, the United Kingdom, Russia, China, France (all permanent 
members) Bulgaria, Cameroon, Guinea, Mexico, Syrian Arab Republic, 
Angola, Chile, Germany, Pakistan and Spain.

The US and UK would have definitely voted to support the 
resolution.

France was opposed - and also very likely to use its veto power.

Russia, China, Germany and Syria, were less opposed than France and 
Germany - but still unlikely to move - although Russia and China 
were unlikely to actually veto, even if they didn't vote for the 
resolution.

Spain and Bulgaria were highly likely to support any resolution.

Chile wanted Iraq to be given one more chance, but was willing to 
support military action if that failed.

Angola, Cameroon, Guinea, Mexico, and Pakistan were the 'swing 
voters' that could have gone either way.

So there were 4 in favour (with a 5th broadly in favour but wanting 
Iraq to be given one more chance), 5 opposed, and 5 swinging.

Unanimity wasn't going to happen - but a 10-5 or a 9-6 vote were 
distinct possibilities.

But if France was going to veto, there was no point the 5 swingers 
committing one way or the other.

> Indeed, I suspect it has happened during the war 
> in Algeria, and it was one of the most shameful time in french history. 
> Anyway, it is hard to know what would have happened. We know what did 
> happen. And on the basis of what did happen, I don't see any reason to 
> blame any country for blocking the diplomatic process.

I don't exactly blame France - France was acting in France's 
interests, and any nation should do that. What I blame is the veto 
system for rendering the Security Council virtually impotent - 
because virtually any major decision is likely to be against the 
interests of at least one veto power.
 
>  > Iraq was under sanctions for over a decade. These sanctions were
>  > largely intended to force his removal from office. They didn't
>  > succeed.
> 
> I was rather referring to cutting support from dictators we support. 
> Not enemies. I, for one, would be glad to see France ending its support 
> to the current tunisian regime. It is possible that some americans feel 
> it would be sensible to stop supporting the Saudi monarchy.

Yes, very possible. 
 
>  > There's nothing wrong with trying those methods - because there are
>  > rare occasions, where they are successful. But when you've tried
>  > them for 12 years, and they haven't done any good, it's time to do
>  > something else.
> 
> But the UN did something else. Inspectors were working in Iraq just 
> prior the war. And they were quite satisfied with their working 
> condition (largely because of military threat, but still). Was it worth 
> it to engage in a war which killed one thousand Americans and more than 
> 12,000 iraqi civilians?

Sorry, the inspectors were *not* satisfied with their working 
conditions. I have spoken personally with Richard Butler, who 
headed the international inspections for several years. Iraq was 
showing more compliance in late 2002 and early 2003 than it had 
before. But it wasn't enough. The inspectors were relatively happy 
with its improved compliance - but that was relative to virtually 
no compliance for four years.

Inspecting the whole country under the conditions they were working 
under would have taken at least a decade - and that was if Iraq 
didn't kick them out again.

It's also now known that the inspectors missed quite a few things.

It's possible that a more rigorous inspection plan might have been 
worthwhile - but that would almost certainly have not got through 
the security council.

The weapons inspectors did a lot of good in the mid 1990s - but 
they'd found all they were likely to find by 1998.
 
>  > International law does not ensure peace.  In fact the number of
>  > wars increased every decade between the 1940s and the 1990s.
> 
> They don't, but it's the only thing we have. So I would be in favor of 
> following them.

International law only works in cases where both sides comply or if 
there is some form of enforcement. Iraq did not comply. It would 
not comply. And in the case of Iraq, there was no ambiguity - it's 
violations were absolutely clear, based on written, published UN 
Security Council Resolutions.

Following international law requires taking action when a nation 
refuses to comply. Iraq refused to comply for over a decade.  

If you want to complain about someone not following international 
law, that person was Saddam Hussein. And the world sat back and let 
him get away with it, for 12 years.

If international law has any value, it must be enforced.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From spin01 at aol.com  Thu Sep 30 12:39:26 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:39:26 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjfvo5+a9aj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjgupu+1i2q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "A.J." <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
> <spin01 at a...> wrote:
> > Ok so this is a spoiler question
> > >>>>>>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Is this where they are going to start the movie?  waht about the 
> > whole world cup and omg they can't skip mr weazley in the 
dursleys 
> > living room can they? 
> 
> No and yes.
> 
> There are photos up already of the scene where the group in muggle 
> clothes goes up the hill to the portkey to the world cup.
> 
> The Dursleys aren't in it.
> 
> A.J.

Well no.  I wouldn't expect them to be.  They would be in little 
whinging.  However remember at the biginning of the book when Harry 
is getting picked up at the Dursleys and the Weasleys come to the 
house in the fireplace.  that is the scene i was hoping for.  That 
and the ton tongue toffee lol.
sherry




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 13:01:36 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:01:36 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjgupu+1i2q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjh03g+cleo@eGroups.com>

 
> > There are photos up already of the scene where the group in muggle 
> > clothes goes up the hill to the portkey to the world cup.
> > 
> > The Dursleys aren't in it.
> > 
> > A.J.
> 
> Well no.  I wouldn't expect them to be.  They would be in little 
> whinging.  However remember at the biginning of the book when Harry 
> is getting picked up at the Dursleys and the Weasleys come to the 
> house in the fireplace.  that is the scene i was hoping for.  That 
> and the ton tongue toffee lol.
> sherry

Sadly, when A.J. said "The Dursleys aren't in it," "it" means the
movie, not the portkey scene.  The Ton-Tongue Toffee scene is one I
would have loved to have seen, too.  Mercilessly cut, it was.

I can understand the need to cut it -- just as long as there isn't the
usual time-wasting going on elswhere, as for example in CoS with the
overly-long flying to Hogwarts and quidditch scenes.

Annemehr






From ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 13:05:34 2004
From: ajhuflpuf at yahoo.com (A.J.)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:05:34 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjh03g+cleo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjh0au+e3kf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
>  
> > > There are photos up already of the scene where the group in 
muggle 
> > > clothes goes up the hill to the portkey to the world cup.
> > > 
> > > The Dursleys aren't in it.
> > > 
> > > A.J.
> > 
> > Well no.  I wouldn't expect them to be.  They would be in little 
> > whinging. 

> Sadly, when A.J. said "The Dursleys aren't in it," "it" means the
> movie, not the portkey scene. 

Right!  Sorry about that!   I just read the response post and 
realized... A.J.




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu Sep 30 13:49:48 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:49:48 -0000
Subject: Politics, using fandom, and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <687a2209040930044348bbc012@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cjh2ts+mgcv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Przemyslaw Plaskowicki 
<przepla at g...> wrote:

> I can not vouch for every country in the EU, but at least in Poland
> (and I believe in other EU members with compulsory national ID 
cards)
> you need to register only when you are living in the place different
> than specified on your ID card.  Nevertheless, maybe people need to
> register in the UK, since UK does not have compulsory ID cards.
> 

Carolyn:
As we do not (yet) have ID cards, you have to be on an Electoral 
Register to be entitled to vote in the UK. These are maintained by 
local authorities and are normally updated annually by contacting 
people at their last known address. However, you can also apply to go 
on the Electoral Register at any time (eg if you move house). When 
you receive the forms, you are also obliged by law to report any 
changes to the people living in your house from last time.

Essentially, to be accepted on the Electoral Register you have to be:
- a British citizen, resident at a UK address
- over 16 (although you cannot actually vote at any election until 
you are 18)

Famously, the three most well-known groups of people excluded by law 
from the Electoral Register, and thus from voting are:
- criminals
- the mentally incapacitated
- members of the House of Lords

There are numerous additional rules to cover the voting rights of 
other groups, such as the homeless, the illiterate, British citizens 
living overseas, and nationals in the Irish Republic and EU, all of 
which are detailed at this website:

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/your-
vote/yourvotefaqs.cfm/faqs/53




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Sep 30 16:43:33 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:43:33 -0000
Subject: Brit-Speak: Vernon Dursley is a /Director/.
In-Reply-To: <cjg2tt+vvqh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjhd3l+h5c9@eGroups.com>

Steve (the Great Lexicographer) wrote:

> I have been wondering as well what position Vernon holds at 
> Grunnings. I think a lot of people were assuming that he owned the 
> place, but the books don't say that, am I right? Can you 
> define "director" for me in one nice sentence that I can add to 
the 
> Strictly British section of the Lexicon?

I had a look at PS when this came up in the summer, and note that 
Vernon Dursley is described as 'the' director of Grunnings.  What 
that means depends a little on what Grunnings is.

If it is a limited company, with shareholders and a board of 
directors, that would imply to me that he is the Managing Director 
(also sometimes now known as the Chief Executive) of the company.  
He is in effect the person who runs the company, but he might own 
anything from nothing through a small stake to a majority of the 
shares.  I'm sure there must be a rough US equivalent - Senior Vice-
President?  He is not the Chairman of the board (I think this may be 
called the President in the US), which is a non-executive position.

I'm not quite sure what other forms of corporate governance might 
apply - I think even quite small businesses have limited liability 
('Ltd' after their name) but I'm not sure how they are owned and run.

I'd say the likelihood, given the general feel of the size (he 
shouts at several people IRC), it would be a private company (ie not 
listed on the Stock Exchange, so not 'plc' after its name) and he is 
the MD.  It's very common, though, not to occupy the whole of a 
building.

If you want a single sentence, something like 'As director, Vernon 
Dursley likely runs Grunnings but does not necessarily own it'.  
Second opinion, anyone?

David




From kcawte at ntlworld.com  Thu Sep 30 17:35:29 2004
From: kcawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:35:29 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Brit-Speak: Vernon Dursley is a /Director/.
References: <cjhd3l+h5c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <010f01c4a713$e38e7d80$69206bd5@kathryn>

David
> I'm not quite sure what other forms of corporate governance might
> apply - I think even quite small businesses have limited liability
> ('Ltd' after their name) but I'm not sure how they are owned and run.
>

K

Not that this is relevant to Grunings from its apparent size, but ... for a
small limited company the rules are pretty much the same as for a huge
Limited company. You need one or more shareholders, one or more directors
and a company secretary (nb you can actually hire a company to do this for
you, there are companies which specialise in being company secretaries for
other companies). You have to produce a set of Accounts every year which
need to be submitted to Companies House alone with an Annual Return and also
need to be submitted to the Inland Revenue with your Company Tax Return. The
Accounts have to provide an accurate picture of the financial position of
the company and its assets/liabilities, alone with listing the shareholders.
They have to be signed by the Secretary and the Director. I believe that
anyone can access the Accounts and Return once they're lodged with Companies
House. The act of becoming Limited is not related to the Size of the Company
or it's financial situation. I work for an accountant and we have clients
with huge turnovers and quite a few staff who are just simple partnerships
and clients who work alone and make barely anything who are Limited
Companies. The main thing about a Limited Company is that it is an entity in
its own right in the eyes of the law. It can own property and take legal
action (or be the subject of legal action) whereas if a company isn't
limited the owner/partners have to act in their own names rather than in the
name of the company. Having limited liability is a *big* advantage because
if your company loses a law suit only the assets held in its name can be
seized, not everything owned by the partners (i.e. their houses, cars etc).
You do however have more responsibilities (filing the Returns and Accounts
etc) so it's a matter of weighing up if the benefits outweigh the  extra
work.

And that's way more than you or anyone else ever wanted to know - I work for
an accountant btw and know far more of this rubbish than I ever wanted to.

K





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 17:59:45 2004
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:59:45 -0000
Subject: Brit-Speak: Vernon Dursley is a /Director/.
In-Reply-To: <cjhd3l+h5c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjhhih+edee@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley"
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

> ...edited...
> 
> If you want a single sentence, something like 'As director, Vernon 
> Dursley likely runs Grunnings but does not necessarily own it'.  
> Second opinion, anyone?
> 
> David


Hi, this is Steve, no not that Steve, the other Steve, the one who
asked the original question.

My impression fits with David's. I see (my vague and general
impression) Vernon very near the top, but still just a worker.

In USA corporate structure, the Board of Directors which includes all
the 'Chiefs' (CEO, CFO, etc...) don't sully themselves with such
mudane things as the day-to-day operation of a company. They are more
interested in broad trends, guiding the general direction of the
company, and coming up with policy and strategy. The next level down
is the President who has broad and general responsibility in
supervising the routine operation of the company. In a sense, he/she
is like a go-between between the Board and those people responsible
for day-to-day operation. Beneath the President are Vice Presidents
who usually have specific areas of responsibility and do have to take
an active supervisory role in daily operation. They are the highest
level managers. Beneath the V.P.'s are various level department and
division managers.

I don't think Grunnings has the full corporate structure outlined
here. My impression is that Vernon is a hands-on guy, rather than a
Board Room policy maker. Based on this, I don't put Vernon at the top
of the company. My impression is that he handles the daily routine
operation at or near the highest level at his location. That would
make him a very high level manager in a large company or possible a
Vice President at a small to medium company. Perhaps we could call him
the 'General Manager' which may or may not be the same as 'Managing
Director'.

I was hoping, in asking the original question, that 'Director' would
be a very common and specific term in British business culture, and
would therefore help us narrow down Vernon's role in the company.

To the person who posted an example of housing prices in Surrey, here
is a handy conversion for us internationally-challenged people in the
USA. A ?300,000 house would cost US$540,000 at current exchange rates.
Not a mansion, but certainly a nice house. 

There are various places on the 'net where you can go to investigate
housing prices in London and other places in England. It's very
enlightening for someone from the USA, you can gain some real
perspective. In a $500,000 house, you can count on a very tiny yard
and a house with very tiny rooms (by USA standards), and a house that
is very close to the house next door.

As a broad generalization, one reason USA house are larger, is that in
the USA we usually build houses with the intent that they last about
100 years, in Europe they build houses with the intent that they last
more like 500 years. 

Side Note: for anyone needing to do any kind of conversion including
weights and measures, currency, and time zones, I highly recommend...

http://www.convertit.com/

Thanks to all who responded.

Steve (not the Lexicon Steve, the other one)






From redina at silverbloom.net  Thu Sep 30 18:19:21 2004
From: redina at silverbloom.net (Dina Lerret)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:19:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: And HP families Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom,
      and The Leaky Cauldron site
In-Reply-To: <687a2209040930044348bbc012@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2888.4.47.27.222.1096429773.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
    <687a220904092908227cb7a8d4@mail.gmail.com>
    <5913e6f804092908353ba53d77@mail.gmail.com>
    <687a2209040930044348bbc012@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4881.4.47.27.222.1096568361.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>

Combining three posts.

Przemyslaw Plaskowicki said:
[snip]
> I can not vouch for every country in the EU, but at least in Poland
> (and I believe in other EU members with compulsory national ID cards)
> you need to register only when you are living in the place different
> than specified on your ID card.  Nevertheless, maybe people need to
> register in the UK, since UK does not have compulsory ID cards.

Hm, last I was aware in Florida/US voting, you needed your signed voter ID
and photo ID with your signature on it (e.g. drivers license) and your
residence must match what's on your card or you'll need to apply for a new
card.  I pulled up my recently revised (change in school board districts)
voter ID:
http://archive.nu/bunniqula/images/flvoteid.jpg

...Because of those saying they couldn't vote at seventeen.  My date of
registration was the day after my 17th birthday and then I remembered
there was a 'pre-registration' before the legal age of eighteen.


carolynwhite2 said:
[snip]
> Essentially, to be accepted on the Electoral Register you have to be:
> - a British citizen, resident at a UK address
> - over 16 (although you cannot actually vote at any election until
> you are 18)

I find it interesting that folks in the UK finalize mandatory education at
sixteen, yet still can't vote until they're eighteen.


linda williams said:
>
> >Dina Lerret <redina at silverbloom.net> wrote:
> >Some days, I'm curious what it could've been like to be in a family that
> >didn't constantly fight. {g}

>    They have families like that somewhere??  LOL

Hm, it's an ideal. {chuckle}

The Grangers, maybe?  Possibly the Potters and Longbottoms, although one
is 'pushing up the daisies' and the other is a 'few French fries short of
a Happy Meal'.

It seems the HP books have varying degrees of dysfunctional families:
Dursley, Black, Riddle, Crouch, Weasley... just to name some--it's
possible to include DE families

Going back to the Grangers, both have professions that can fund vacations
and their child's education, not divorced, they're accepting of a witch as
a daughter, allow their child to stay in the care of others and the family
seems to generally have good communication (e.g. Hermione writing to say
she made prefect).  As much as Hermione is an over-achiever, she
essentially displays a good nature.  Plus, she didn't have sibling
rivalry.

Color me envious. {g}

Dina




From olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org  Thu Sep 30 19:19:29 2004
From: olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org (olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:19:29 +0200
Subject: UN and Iraq
Message-ID: <A6A8C454-1315-11D9-88A2-000A95665DE8@m4x.org>

I think Shaun and I have now stated our respective arguments with 
enough clarity. For the sake of completeness, I will simply restate my 
position.

Contrary to Shaun, I keep thinking that the war as it unfold was 
illegal. I acknowledge Shaun's rationale that shooting at aircrafts in 
the no-fly zone is technically a casus belli. I am in the opinion that 
the US, UK and France, as the aggressors, had to prove first that 
flying aircrafts above Iraq was legal. If casus belli they was, I think 
an argument can be made that it was on their side.

It is certainly true that inspectors were not happy about their working 
condition. However, Richard Butler, whom Shaun mentioned, Hans Blix, 
Scott Ritter and Mohammed El Baradei all opposed the war and stressed 
that though not perfect, the inspection regime was working. Indeed, no 
weapons of mass destruction of any significant efficiency have been 
found since.

I would like to outline one last time what my ideal situation would 
have been. I would have liked the inspectors to be asked clearly if 
they were in favor of invasion, limited strike (? la Desert Fox) or 
simply continued inspections. In the case where they would have said 
they were in favor of invasion, I would have liked the US and UK to 
present a resolution clearly outlining what they were going to do, 
including post-war situation. If France had vetoed such a resolution 
(supported by the inspectors and voted by a majority of the Security 
Council that is), I would have been the first to call it a shame.

However, what happened is so far away from my ideal world, that I must 
confess I have some doubts about the real motivations of the invading 
forces. Doubts I think many people share and that render the whole 
discussion about whether the war was or wasn't legal a bit surreal.

But it is always a pleasure to listen to educated arguments. If only 
for that reason, I would like to thank Shaun for this discussion.

Regards,
Olivier



From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 19:38:49 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:38:49 -0000
Subject: And HP families Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Politics, using fandom, and The Leaky Caul
In-Reply-To: <4881.4.47.27.222.1096568361.squirrel@www.silverbloom.net>
Message-ID: <cjhnc9+h1qi@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dina Lerret" <redina at s...> wrote:

> Hm, last I was aware in Florida/US voting, you needed your signed
voter ID
> and photo ID with your signature on it (e.g. drivers license) and your
> residence must match what's on your card or you'll need to apply for
a new
> card.

Wow. In Pennsylvania, you just have to show up and tell them your
name.  Then they check for your name in the voter rolls to see whether
such a voter exists and whether or not they'd already voted that day.
They don't check any ID at all, but they do have you sign a card. You
think they analyse all the signatures afterwards?  They apparently
have no idea whether you've moved away or not, or even if you're dead...

I didn't know any state required ID to vote, and I'm surprised because
of all the furor that arises when someone suggests making it mandatory
nationally.  Some nonsense about "disenfranchisement"...

Annemehr







From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Sep 30 20:34:46 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:34:46 -0000
Subject: Brit-Speak: Vernon Dursley is a /Director/.
In-Reply-To: <cjhhih+edee@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjhql6+qk2l@eGroups.com>

Steve - the Minnesota one, not the Michigan one - wrote:
 
> My impression fits with David's. I see (my vague and general
> impression) Vernon very near the top, but still just a worker.
> 
> In USA corporate structure, the Board of Directors which includes 
all
> the 'Chiefs' (CEO, CFO, etc...) don't sully themselves with such
> mudane things as the day-to-day operation of a company.

No, I meant that he *is* the CEO (I wasn't clear you have that term 
in the US), who is on the board of directors.  In the UK I think it 
is the rule that the CEO is responsible for the performance of the 
company - the share price, ultimately, but more directly the bottom 
line - via the board to the shareholders.  The word 'executive' in 
there means the person who actually runs the business.  The board 
members who don't involve themselves with the operation of the 
company are usually called 'non-executive directors', or non-execs 
for short.

 They are more
> interested in broad trends, guiding the general direction of the
> company, and coming up with policy and strategy. The next level 
down
> is the President who has broad and general responsibility in
> supervising the routine operation of the company. In a sense, 
he/she
> is like a go-between between the Board and those people responsible
> for day-to-day operation. Beneath the President are Vice Presidents
> who usually have specific areas of responsibility and do have to 
take
> an active supervisory role in daily operation.

I was wrong, then, in my understanding of US equivalents.

> Perhaps we could call him
> the 'General Manager' which may or may not be the same as 'Managing
> Director'.

It would not be the same, IMO.

> I was hoping, in asking the original question, that 'Director' 
would
> be a very common and specific term in British business culture, and
> would therefore help us narrow down Vernon's role in the company.

It is common, but it is not *quite* specific enough, depending on 
circumstances.  If PS had said, e.g., that VD was *a* director, that 
might have meant he was a board member with some operational 
responsibilities (we had that in my previous company - several board 
members were also involved in the business of the company, which had 
over 1000 employees).  But calling him *the* director means he is 
the CEO, IMO.

David




From animalspussycat at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 21:39:38 2004
From: animalspussycat at yahoo.com (animalspussycat)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:39:38 -0000
Subject: GOF script (minor spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <cjh0au+e3kf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cjhueq+lj0j@eGroups.com>

A.J. <ajhuflpuf at y...> wrote:
> There are photos up already of the scene where the group in 
> muggle clothes goes up the hill to the portkey to the world cup.
> 
> The Dursleys aren't in it.
 

Where can you see the scene?

................animalspussycat