Banned Books Week - question

[spinelli372003]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I do not 
agree with books being banned.  At all in any way shape or form.  I 
do however think that a parent is ultimately responsible for a childs 
reading material.  Whether he signs the form at the library saying 
yes he may have acess to the whole library or whether he says only 
the childrens section.  It is the parents choice.  I think it is 
important that the world not take a parents rights away.  and leaving 
everything out there for the child to choose at such a young age is 
for me not appropriate.  I don't care how advance a child is there 
are some things that he/she does not need access to.  Being on a 
restricted shelf does not mean a child can not have them.  it means a 
child needs the parents permission to have them.  on a seperate 
note.  something that also came up for me in your post about being a 
bigot because i think a parent should be involved in a childs choices 
I found to be insulting.  I am not a racist or a bigot because I 
beleive that a child should have a parent involved in his her 
learning process.  I do think all children should be able to learn at 
the level of there ability. Not sure mayber your library system in 
Austrailia is different in the US.  Just because we have a restricted 
section does not mean a child can not use those books it merely means 
a child must have a parents permission to use that area.  Again,  I 
need to point out my stand on banning books is that it is not 
acceptable.  If you reread my very first post on this you will find 
that.  It is merely that I as a parent and also as a caregiver to 
young children feel it is my right and my responsibility to see that 
children receive that which is age appropriate.  sherry

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> On 27 Sep 2004 at 13:13, spinelli372003 wrote:
> 
> > I understand all of your points.  However I still hold firm to my 
> > belief that just because something is out there it shouldn't be 
> > accessable to all. Again it is up to the parent to give a child 
> > something that he/she feels is appropriate.  my son at 9 could 
read a 
> > porn magazine.  Does that mean it is something acceptable?  NO.  
My 
> > son at 9 could read a college text book.  again is it something 
that 
> > he needs to see or read at that age?  Children are capable of 
doing 
> > many things but that does not mean they are good for them.  Going 
by 
> > your belief it would follow that your also would agree that 
having 
> > sex at 12 and procreating was ok because biologically they were 
> > able?  
> 
> No, it wouldn't.
> 
> Because it is exceptionally unlikely (probably impossible) that a 
> child of 12, no matter how intelligent that child was, is 
> emotionally ready for the responsibilities inherent in a sexual 
> relationship, and even more unlikely that they are ready in terms 
> of emotional maturity for the responsibilities of parenthood.
> 
> But emotional factors, while important, are only one part of the 
> equation in any decision. Intellectual factors are important as 
> well.
> 
> The kids I work with have the fundamental need to have access to 
> material they are intellectually ready for. If they do not have 
> this access, they tend to be very prone to developing high levels 
> of depressive illness, and they incur a serious danger of 
> significant educational underachievement, along with a host of 
> other potential educational, social, and emotional problems.
> 
> It is not OK to deprive these children of the opportunities they 
> need access to to be emotionally and educationally healthy.
> 
> If a book is taken off a library shelf nobody is able to use that 
> library to access the book. Everybody's rights are restricted.
> 
> If the book is on the shelf, nobody is forced to borrow it, nobody 
> is forced to read it, and nobody is forced to allow their child to 
> read it if in their judgement their child is not ready to read it.
> 
> > I still think it is up to a childs parent to decide if they 
> > were old enough.  Not up to the librarian to decide.  and rules 
are 
> > there for the health and safety of the population at large.  I 
have a 
> > hard time with the few parents who have the super bright children 
> > demanding that the rest of the world meet their demands.  
> I ahve a 
> > hard time with 11 yr old kids in college.   Yes there should be 
> > material and processes in place for them but it doesn't mean that 
the 
> > world should drop all of the tried and working plans.
> 
> All children should be entitled to an education that meets their 
> educational needs.
> 
> Attitudes like those you express here, killed friends of mine - 
> driven to suicide because the education system refused to work to 
> meet their needs. Across the western world each year, literally 
> thosuands of these children develop serious depressive illness 
> because they are denied the education they need to have the same 
> chance as any other child to be happy and healthy.
> 
> If anyone suggested that black parents were wrong to demand 
> appropriate education for their children, that person would be 
> labelled a racist bigot. If anyone suggested the parents of 
> disabled children were wrong to demand appropriate education to 
> meet their children'd educational needs, they would be labelled a 
> bigot. You have a problem with 11 year old children in college - 
> well, I have a problem with 11 year old children who are reading 
> Tolstoy being told they have to spend 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, 
> 40 or more weeks a year having to 'learn' how to spell the word 
> 'squirrel' - something many of them could do at the age of 5 or 
> younger.
> 
> Yes, there are limits to what can be done for these children. The 
> real world imposes real financial restraints that means there is 
> competition for resources, and often after more pressing needs are 
> dealt with, there may not be enough money left to give these kids 
> what they need. If prioritising means that other needs need to be 
> put first, that's fine.
> 
> But allowing kids access to appropriate books for their reading 
> level, and their level of understanding, and their level of 
> maturity doesn't cost any extra than deciding they should only have 
> access to books aimed at the theoretical 'average' child of their 
> age.
> 
> Every child is entitled to the same dignity and respect of having 
> their individual educational needs met wherever it is possible to 
> do so. You may have a problem with that - but it's a matter of 
> basic human justice.
> 
> I agree that it is up to the child's parents to decide whether a 
> child should have access to a particular book or not. But guess 
> what - parents can only make that decision if the books are 
> available. If there are books on your libraries shelf that you do 
> not want your children to read it is your responsibility as a 
> parent to tell your children that, and it is your responsibility as 
> a parent to work to raise children who will respect and obey your 
> instructions and wishes.
> 
> As you say, it is *not* up to the librarian to make these decisions 
> - but if a librarian chooses not to put a particular book on a 
> shelf, they *are* making these decisions. If it is truly the 
> parents job to decide, then the books need to be there so the 
> parents can exercise that judgement.
> 
> If a parent judges that their seven year old child is ready for 
> 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix' and the librarian has 
> decided that book should not be available to children under ten, 
> the librarian is impinging on the parents rights and prerogatives.
> 
> Would I let a 9 year old in my care read pornography? No, I 
> wouldn't - or rather, there hasn't been a single 9 year old of my 
> acquaintance including some who are at college level education who 
> I think would be ready emotionally to deal with that material. But 
> would I let a 9 year old in my care read a college level textbook? 
> Yes, I would - and I have if that is something they want to do - 
> and some of these kids do. Their parents could overrule me, of 
> course - but in as far as it's my decision, with their knowledge 
> and approval, I most certainly would let a child that age read 
> adult level books quite freely unless there was specific content 
> they were unlikely to be emotionally ready for.
> 
> Does a 9 year old *need* to read a college level textbook? It 
> depends on how you define need. It's unlikely he or she is going to 
> need access to the specific information in any given book - but if 
> you have a profoundly gifted child who craves the chance to engage 
> their mind with material that they find intellectually challenging, 
> then that can be a real need, and if that need is not met, these 
> kids can - and often do - switch off from learning. They lose 
> interest in education - at any level.
> 
> >  The world is 
> > as my grandmother would say "going to hell in a handbasket" 
because 
> > so many restrictions and rules that we used to live by have 
dropped 
> > by the wayside.  I think if more parents were involved in what 
there 
> > child were doing rather than just giving a blanket "ITS OK TO DO 
WHAT 
> > YOU WANT" any time any place we would not have as many problems.  
> > sherry <<who will now wait for the computer to blow up from the 
> > outrage over this post lol>>
> 
> The point is Sherry, I completely support your right as a parent to 
> impose any rules and restrictions you want to on your children. I 
> fully support your right to be highly involved in what your 
> children do. I fully agree that more parents *should* be involved 
> in what their child is doing - and that is what I want to happen 
> here.
> 
> I want parents to be guiding what their children read.
> 
> I want parents to be telling their children what rules they expect 
> their child to live by.
> 
> I want parents to be the ones who take responsibility for what 
> *their* child is reading, and I want the parents to be the ones who 
> make the decisions about what their individual child has access to.
> 
> I don't want these decisions placed in the hands of librarians. And 
> when people say a library should restrict access to particular 
> books, that is purely and simply passing the buck away from parents 
> to another body.
> 
> It's giving parents an excuse not to do their job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
> Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
> (ISTJ)       | drednort at a... | ICQ: 6898200 
> "You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
> thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
> facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
> uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
> need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
> Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia