[HPFGU-OTChatter] The Snape question (Was: Helping Muggle children) (SPOILERS!!)

[Sherry Gomes]

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Carol,

Though I disagree with you on the matter of Snape, your ideas are pretty
good.  If i had kids who were questioning the things we adults are all
questioning, I might use some of your suggestions.  On the other hand, due
to my very strong feelings about the absolute wrongness of what happened, I
don't think i could ever go that far, but then I don't have kids.  One of
the reasons I'm in the Snape is evil camp, is that it troubles me deeply to
send a message to kids that there could *ever* be an acceptable reason to
take the life of another person.  I want Snape to be evil because I can't
justify the deliberate killing of another for any reason that has yet been
proposed by people who think Snape is still a good guy.  Even in war time,
when soldiers must kill, it is a serious crime if a soldier kills its own
men, and especially the general, maybe in our terms, the secretary of
defense.  My best friends have three boys who read the Potter books, ages
11, 13 and 15.  they seem to take the events in the book in stride, just
something that happens in a book, part of the story.  But then, neither of
them is particularly sensitive.  I think that in many ways, the question of
how to deal with Snape is probably harder than how to deal with the death of
Dumbledore.  Some kids might actually find comfort in deciding that an evil
abusive teacher was really evil all along, so they don't have the issues of
trying to understand how he can be so incredibly cruel but still be a good
guy.  When I was a child, i would easily have accepted Snape as bad.  He
killed. He's bad.  i guess i haven't changed much in some ways since
childhood!  LOL.  I was a definite fence sitter about Snape before HBP.  I
despised him, and if I was a witch with children at Hogwarts, I'd have been
screaming about his treatment of non Slytherin kids.  But I believed
Dumbledore knew best.  Now, I'm firmly on the side of the fence that says
Snape is bad, evil right to the center of his being, all because of the
murder of Dumbledore.  The only way I'll probably ever change my mind is if
it turns out that Dumbledore isn't really dead at all, and the whole thing
was an elaborate hoax.  I'd be furious at that, but relieved too.  However,
if he's really dead, then it's just simple murder to me, not brave, not
honorable.  I think that's how I'd present it to kids, that some people are
bad and do terrible things that we can't understand.  But that it isn't the
way most people are.  Just thinking off the cuff of what I'd say to my
friends' boys or to my nieces and nephews if the question ever comes up.
Almost anything else Snape could have done could have been justified in my
mind, but not the killing.  Sigh.  

As we've been discussing this, several have said that it wouldn't be good to
remind the kids that it is just a book and the characters aren't real.
While I agree that the genuine emotions the book brings out shouldn't be
squashed by such statements, i also don't see a problem with talking about
their feelings and then reminding them that it is just a book, that
Dumbledore isn't actually real.  After all, if kids were scared by a
nightmare about vampires, we would certainly tell them that vampires aren't
real, even while still acknowledging the fear from the nightmare.

This subject really does make me think and bring some difficult questions to
my mind.  I'm going to have to email my friends' oldest son and find out how
he felt about the book's shocking climax.

Sherry




-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of justcarol67
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:33 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Snape question (Was: Helping Muggle children)
(SPOILERS!!)


Don't read this post if you haven't read HBP!

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Joe Bento wrote:
><snip>
> I am curious at how you explain Snape to a child troubled by DD's 
> apparent death?  People on this board have already expressed the 
> thought that you don't simply dismiss a child's questions because 
> Harry Potter is just an imaginary story.  Do you tell the child that 
> DD was murdered, and explain that Snape is likely a very bad man?  
> How could you explain that Snape may have been following DD's 
> wishes, justifying an apparent murder?
> 
> While I certainly don't want to doubt the intelligence of a child, 
> can they discern the difference between:  
> 1) The thought that Snape may have been fulfilling DD's wishes.
> 2) Snape may in fact have committed an unforgivable crime.
> 3) A violent gang murder on the evening news.
> 
> It seems to me that explaining DD's death might be a bit more 
> complicated than explaining the passing of someone from natural 
> causes.  A child is most certainly going to pick up on the AK 
> incantation as well as the detailed hatred in Snape's expression. <snip>

Carol responds:
Hi, Joe. I attempted to answer this post offlist because I was unsure
of the spoiler policy (thank you, List Elves!) but I don't think I did
a very good job. I was too concerned with defending Snape rather than
answering the very important question that you raised.

As earlier posts in this thread imply, a grown-up's first concern is
helping children deal with the loss of Dumbledore (whose death is not
apparent but real within the contxt of the books), but there's also
the question of how to help them deal with Snape (who unquestionably
killed him). Here are my thoughts:

Sophisticated older children who had deduced from earlier books that
Snape may be a "horrible teacher" but Dumbledore was right to trust
him may be devastated by Snape's close links to the DEs and in
particular by his killing of Dumbledore. These older children, who are
clearly skilled readers, should be encouraged to reread the book,
examining the text for clues that they may be right and Harry wrong
about Snape's motives. (Are there, or were there, any Snapefans under
the age of seventeen?)

For most children, however, especially those between nine and fourteen
or so, thoughtful parents and teachers can raise a few questions.

1)What would have happened if Snape had broken the Unbreakable Vow? 
(Answer: He would have died.)
2)Would his death have saved Dumbledore? (Answer: No. Dumbledore would
have been killed by the Death Eaters, including the horrible Fenrir
Grayback.)
3)What does keeping his vow allow Snape to do that he could not have
done if he'd died breaking it? (Answer: Keep his promise to help and
protect Draco.)
4) Could Snape's expression of hatred and revulsion, which seems to
mean that he hates Dumbledore, mean something else? (Answer: It
*could* mean that he hates having to kill him. This one may require a
rewording of the question to elicit the right answer.)
5) Is it possible that Snape isn't evil? Why do you think so? (Correct
answer for the child, as opposed to the adult asking the question, is
whatever the child thinks it is.)

If the child is still convinced that Snape is evil (So what if he
saved Draco? Draco's evil, too!), the parent or teacher could ask

1) Why do you think JKR has evil characters in her books? 
2) Why does it matter that Dumbledore is killed by Snape and not by
another Death Eater?
3) What do you think should happen when Harry meets Snape?
4) Is it all right for Harry to kill Snape with an Avada Kedavra or is
Snape right that Harry should not use Unforgiveable Curses? Why do you
think so?

And if all else fails, the parent or teacher could ask the child to
write an essay called "Why I Hate Severus Snape." At least that would
allow the child to espress his or her ideas and at the same time find
an outlet for outraged feelings.)

What do you think, Joe? Anybody? Would these ideas work? If not, how
would you help a child deal with hatred of a fictional character?
("Don't worry about it. Snape's not real" is not going to solve the
problem.)

Carol, who really needs some answers to this question








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