[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Remember the Madness.- School Uniform Compulsion

[Shaun Hately]

On 5 Jun 2005 at 6:17, Steve wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...>
> wrote: > ...edited... > > Of course, I should also be upfront and
> confess that I am pretty > close to a fascist when it comes to school
> uniforms - when I was at > school, when I got disciplinary authority,
> going after kids who were > wearing their uniform in an inappropriate
> manner was a major > preoccupation of mine. To me, it's not a minor
> issue, though I can > understand why some people think it is, and a
> lot depends on the > school - some schools don't care - fair enough.
> But if your school > does care, you've no right to complain. > > >
> Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought > Shaun Hately 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> On this issue, you have to temper it with the knowledge that I'm from
> the USA, and the idea of being that obssessive about uniforms is
> complete ...er...well... foreign to me.
> 
> As long as we are on the subject what is your opion of the way the
> kids in the movies were their uniforms. I realize that this is not the
> movie forum, but I think if we stick to uniforms we should be OK.

Oh boy, you had to ask. My views on this have inspired some rather 
intense debates at certain places in the past 8-)

> Some male students for some reason have extremely short ties; like 6"
> down from their collar. Other have their shirts untucked. Other have
> long neckties very loosely knotted. Is what you see in the movies
> somewhat consistent with real life?

That depends on the school.

Some schools are very obsessive about uniforms. Mine was. And 
insisted on them being worn very neatly. Others don't see it as that 
important.

Generally speaking major schools in the British Public School 
tradition (both actual British Public Schools and those that have 
grown from that tradition) tend to take such things seriously - but 
there are exceptions.

When it comes to Hogwarts as shown in the movies, my major objection 
is the difference between how uniforms are worn in the first two 
films and how they were worn in the third.

In the first two films, they tended to be worn reasonably neatly - 
not perfectly all the time, but fairly neatly. Neat enough that even 
a uniform fascist like me would have let the occasional lapse slide.

It also seemed to me very obvious that the makers of the film had 
deliberately chosen to follow conventions of a school uniform as the 
foundation of the Hogwarts uniform. They didn't have to choose that - 
but as they had, I was glad to see them treating it respectfully.

The problem for me develops with the third film. In that film, the 
uniform is not worn properly most of the time (except by Percy, thank 
goodness). Now, this isn't inherently unrealistic - Hogwarts could be 
a school where the uniform just isn't taken that seriously.

But the fact that it changes so dramatically between the first two 
films and the third film - that really does irritate me a lot.

If a real school's wearing of its uniform disintegrated that badly, 
that quickly, it'd be a sign that the school had very serious 
problems.

For Hogwarts to go from a school where the uniform is worn fairly 
neatly most of the time, to one where it is worn very poorly most of 
the time (and sometimes, absolutely appallingly) just doesn't work 
for me - but in the sense of the continuity of a series of films.

Basically I want to see Hogwarts as a realistic school.

Hogwarts as seen in the first two films fits my view of a realistic 
school, and one I would have been very comfortable in.

Hogwarts as seen in the third film still fits my view of a realistic 
school, though one I would have some concerns about.

But when I try to see the two together (1/2 vs 3) - they just don't 
mesh for me.

Leaving aside the realism, I have to say I was, at times, utterly 
appalled with the uniform standards in the third film.

I could accept Ron wearing the uniform in a somewhat sloppy manner - 
Harry too, as well. But HERMIONE!?!? Her clothing in the first 
hippogriff scene was so bad, it had to be deliberate. It looked like 
she'd been dragged through the undergrowth backwards by one foot.

I can see Ron and Harry not worrying about wearing uniform properly - 
but Hermione doesn't seem the type. I don't know that she'd be 
obsessive about it (unlike Percy, who would be) but she'd try pretty 
hard.

And the scene where Snape takes Lupin's class - Ron wearing his 
uniform poorly in that scene grated as well. Even if you think you 
can get away with it most of the time - not with Snape. No, not with 
Snape.

> I know from a little research into the matter of school uniforms that
> back in the 'good old days' students and administration used to be at
> constant war over school caps. The school would even send teacher out
> to prowl the neighborhoods to keep watch for any student in uniform
> who wasn't wearing his cap. No cap, even if you were standing in front
> of your own house was a punishable offense. 
> 
> Again, being from the US, I find it impossible to fathom that level of
> obssession with school caps.

How about school socks. Socks were always my big target (-8 (my 
school had abolished hats). Ties too, but most boys wore their ties 
properly. Their summer socks, though...

And, yes, we were obsessive - but for a reason at my school. We had a 
very, very good public reputation that meant a huge amount to us - 
and whether it makes sense or not, a large segment of the public do 
see a school where the uniform isn't worn properly as a school in 
crisis (in fact, I've given some hint of that attitude myself above - 
and I admit it - although my concern would be the suddeness of the 
drop in standards, not the standards themselves). It really can harm 
a schools reputation, whether it should do so or not.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia