What can/can't a wizard or witch conjour up?

[Steve]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dungrollin"
<spotthedungbeetle at h...> wrote:
>
> > bboyminn:
> <snipped>
> > Another rule related to 'conjuring'. Things that are created from
> > nothing are not premanent, they are created from nothing and in 
> time return to their original state - nothing. 
> > 
> > So, you could create food using conjuring, but before you had time 
> to digest it, ... you would starve. ...
> > 
> > ...<snipped>...
> 
> Dungrollin:
> Questions questions questions, and I know you like thinking about 
> this stuff, Steve, so I'm asking you. Could I smoke as many conjured 
> cigarettes as I liked with no ill-effects? Or, since the damage done 
> is far more immediate would it be just as bad as smoking real 
> cigarettes? ...
> 

bboyminn:

No, it wouldn't be as bad as regular tobacco. If you smoke a cigarette
you don't instantly get cancer. The affect is accumulative. It's
chronic use that causes the problems, and the problem is far more than
the addictive effect of nicotine. In fact, actually in opinion, I
would say that nicotine is the least harmful aspect of tobacco. I
think a residue of tar and other particulate matter in your lungs
would cause the greatest problems because that substance lingers in
the lungs long after the cigarette is out. That and the fact that
American cigarette are fortified with an unbelievable assortment of
chemicals. In fact, at one time 'Kent with the Micronite filter' was
on the market, and it turned out that 'Micronite' was Ad-Speak for
asbestos. So, it's the lingering residue in your lungs that causes
long term irritation and damage.

> Dungrollin:
>
> Would conjured smoke make someone sitting next to me cough, or bring 
> on an athsma attack? Would I get hayfever from conjured hay? I 
> assume so.
> 

bboyminn:

In my studied opinion, while it exists, conjured objects are just as
real as the real thing, so yes, hayfever, athsma, etc... are all very
real possibilities.

> bboyminn:
> > As a side note; keep in mind that not everything that appears to
> > appear from nowhere is conjure. For example, when Dumbledore made 
> > the squashy purple sleeping bags appear; we don't know if he 
> > created them from /nothing/ or if he just transferred them from 
> > their storage location in the castle. ...
> > 
> 
> Dungrollin:
> Except that if DD had simply transferred the sleeping bags from 
> elsewhere, that's a kind of remote apparation. Far more powerful 
> that a summoning charm like accio since they disappeared in one 
> place and reappeared in another immediately. You could then bring 
> anything from anywhere - why bother with the Hogwarts express? The 
> Teachers could simply summon each student at the beginning of term, 
> and avoid complications such as the Flying Ford Anglia.
> 

bboyminn:

First, it is LIKE apparation, but it's not. There is a big difference
in the level of difficulty and risk between moving a chair from one
location to another and moving yourself. If the chair doesn't make it,
no harm - no foul, but if a human doesn't make it, big harm - big foul.

As far as your Hogwart Express comment, first and formost, I think you
need to know where something is in order to transfer it to your
location. That greatly complicates moving students to Hogwarts. Plus
there is the matter of time. Estimating probably 100 students in each
house that's a lot of time tranferring them one by one. I don't think
teachers want to waste their time with that.

Second, the Hogwarts Express serves other more traditional purposes.
I've always thought it provided a transition time for students. It
gave them time to shift their minds from the many distractions of
summer, and get themselves back into a 'school' mode. 

I also think it has the advantage of transporting students all at
once, so they aren't straggling into the school one by one over a long
period of time. And let's not forget their luggage, that is an
additional transport and again I don't think the teachers would want
to waste all that time only to have students arrive so slowly. 


> Dungrolling:
>
> What about the refilling charm Harry used at Hagrid's hut to get 
> Slughorn and Hagrid sloshed? Was that conjured booze or kosher stuff 
> nicked from Hagrid's cupboard? If it was conjured, did they have 
> hangovers or not? 
> 

bboyminn:

It's difficult to say, I suspect Harry was drawing on Hogwarts stock
of wine to refill the bottles. The implication really is that he is
refilling them, not creating new fake wine. I suspect, Slughorn and
Hagrid's personal stocks were limited, but I also suspect Hogwarts has
a nice large wine cellar as yet undiscovered by students.

However, if Harry was conjuring the wine, the effect would be the same
on the drinkers, but it wouldn't last as long. Keep in mind they
already drank two bottle (at least) of wine, so they were a bit
snockered to start with. Harry's wine just help them along in the
moment. Once Harry had what he wanted, it didn't matter any more if
the wine was real or not.

> Dungrollin:
>
> I suppose it all depends on how long these conjured objects actually 
> last - something which could be supposed to vary with the skill 
> and/or power of the witch/wizard in question. Which would allow DD 
> to conjure a thousand squashy, purple sleeping bags at the drop of a 
> hat and have them last for a week if necessary. ...
> 

bboyminn:

I suspect that Dumbledore is capable of conjuring the sleeping bags
and making them last at least overnight. That's not my read of the
story, but it is very much possible. I think the key is we don't
really know and probably never will. I personally suspect a transfer
from storage, others can think conjured.

> bboyminn:
> > Transfiguration becomes more complicated, ... if you transfigure 
> > a living thing to an inanimate object, what happens to its life 
> > force? ...
> > 
> 
> Dungrollin:
> Complications indeed. More to the point, is transfiguration 
> permanent in a way that conjuring isn't? If it is, then what's to 
> stop the Weasleys transfiguring pebbles into Galleons?  
> 
> Curious, but lazy,
> Dungrollin

bboyminn:

Now I'm stumped, so I'll fudge a bit. I suspect some tranfiguration is
temporary and some is permanent. JKR has said that if a person is
transfigure into an animal, they take on the brain of the animal and
like aren't smart enough to bring themselves back. That implies a
certain permanence. 

But your pebbles to Galleons is a classic contradiction. If JKR is
true to here rules of magic, pebbles to Galleons wouldn't be
permanent. Also, it's a bit alchemic, you might be able to make
pebbles LOOK like gold coins, but would it really be gold? Seriously,
I don't know, but again, JKR set limits on her world, and those limits
are in place to prevent the very thing you suggest, so for now I will
say NO, you can't do that.

Keep in mind, that I just make this stuff up.

Steve/bboyminn