[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Disasters

[Bamajenny]

Judy said:
Primary responsiblity for coastline and seaport protection lives
with the Federal government.  For the past several years, the Army
Corp of Engineers has said more money was deperately needed for the
levees and other protections around New Orleans; Lousiana officials
also asked for money.  They didn't get it.  As for how bad the levee 
breech was -- 80% of the city is under water; the only reason the 
rest isn't is that it was above lake & sea level to begin with. 

Jenny here:
Judy, part of your and my 'communication problem' :-) is that I think we
differ in what we mean when we say "New Orleans". I mean Greater New
Orleans, which includes Kenner, River Ridge, Metarie, and several other
cities. I think that way because my family lives in "New Orleans", but
not in the "City of New Orleans". When the mayor says that 80% of
the city is under water, he is correct. But he is refering to just the
city limits of New Orleans itself. Only about 25% of Greater New
Orleans was flooded, which is why I think that the levee system did a
fairly good job.

Judy said:
As for saying that FEMA couldn't be expected to know that people in 
New Orleans were desperate and dying -- virtually everyone in the US 
knew that.  If FEMA was the last to know, then that's a serious 
problem.

Jenny here:
Judy, I never said that FEMA couldn't be expected to know that people in New
Orleans were desperate and dying. What I said was that FEMA did not know
that thousands of people had gathered at the convention center. The convention
center was never officially opened as a shelter, not even before the storm, and
there were no relief workers there at all. The first people there broke in, and
more and more people followed.

Judy said:
In *any* hurricane, let alone one striking a city that is below
sea level, the large majority of deaths are the result of various
forms of flooding, rather than wind damage. Any hurricane plan
that doesn't count on severe flooding is no plan at all.<snip>

Jenny here:
I agree. In fact, I said that the New Orleans plan obviously
didn't work.

Judy said:
The fact that police communications failed shows that the New
Orleans police either had poor training or poor equipment, or both.
<snip> if the New Orleans police lacked emergency communications, the 
State Police or National Guard should have provided it. <snip>

Jenny here:
I believe that this is still the result of a flood plan that was
not based on the worse-case scenario. I think (just my opinion)
that the plan was based on the worse that had ever happened,
rather than the worse that could possibly happen.

Judy said:
No, a mandatory evacuation for everyone in New Orleans was ordered 
*before* the storm

Jenny here:
Again, the differece in what you and I think of as "New Orleans".
This evacuation was for the city of New Orleans, not greater New
Orleans. Everything Ray Nagin says/does applies ONLY to the city
of New Orleans. Greater New Orleans includes Orleans Parish, St.
Tamany Parish, St. Charles Parish, St. Bernard Parish, and
Jefferson Parish. There may be more, but that is all that I can
think of right now.

Judy said:
I am not trying to blame New Orleans; I think the biggest failure
here was the Federal government. However, you seem to be saying that
the government can not be expected to prevent disasters, and can not
be expected to help people when a disaster strikes.  I say that
preventing disasters and helping people when they occur is the *main*
thing a government is expected to do.

Jenny here:
So... you think that the federal government could have prevented
Katrina? Or you think they could have prevented the flooding?
Personally, I don't think that the federal government could have
PREVENTED either one. Yes, I think that federal government should
have responded faster, but I believe that the brunt of the blame
should be laid at the feet the governor of Louisiana. She is the
one who (very nonchantly) told police to ignore looters because
they should be trying to save lives. She is the one who did not
activate the Louisiana national guard and/or request additional
guard assistance from other states or the federal government
until waaaayyyyyyy too late. Nagin tried, but again, all he can
do is just within the city limits of New Orleans. The governor
waited until Thursday, when the situation had gotten too out of
hand, and she still hasn't actually declared martial law. Contrast
this with the governor of Mississippi who declared martial law
on Tuesday, the day after the storm.

Judy, I think that you and I agree more than disagree. I do
think that the federal government could have responded faster.
I do think that more could have been done a head of time, but
I think that would have been aimed at hurricane preparations,
rather than flooding.

I truly hope that the chaos in New Orleans will lead to a lot
of reevaluation at the local, state and federal level. What has
happened there should never have happened any where in the
world. I can only pray that it will never happen again.

Jenny 


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