HP readalikes - Eragon

[Steve]

---  "kempermentor" <kempermentor at ...> wrote:

> > bboyminn continues:
> > Many people claim these books are 'predictable' and
> > 'derivative', but I found a fascinating captivating
> > story filled with very likable characters. ...
> 
> Kemper now:
> The nay-sayer agrees with 'predictable' and 
> 'derivative' as appropriate adjectives to Eragon.  
> This nay-sayer has not read Eldest.
> 

bboyminn:

But isn't it fair to say that any story that falls into
a genre is 'Predictable' and 'Derivative'. I means
Tolkien didn't invent elves and dwarfs, and the things
he did invent were based in legends that already
existed.

One could say that because JKR uses tried and true
mechanisms, that she too is 'predictable' and
'derivative'. But I see that as literary criticism,
but not necessarily story criticism. I mean every
TV Sitcom is essentially that same story told in 
a new framework with new characters. In fact, some
people say that Shakespeare wrote every story ever 
told, from Shakespeare on, people are just retelling
his tales in new frameworks.

So, my point is not related to literary criticism or
the book's 'derivative' nature, but to whether or not
the author told a rousing good story with characters
I care about and can relate to. 

In the sense of a storyteller's tale, both JKR and 
Paolini are excellent storytellers, though I would 
certainly rate JKR higher. Orson Scott Card and Eoin
Colfer are a few other rousing good storytellers. 
Their books may have 'literary' flaws, but the story
is so good, I simply don't care. I want substance over
style, and I find it in these books, though I suspect
other will say they are all style and no substance. 

To me the true test of a story is, do I care, and I
do care about Eragon and the many other characters in
his tale. I'm eager to see what happens to them and
how they react, and that aspect is irrelevant to the
fact that the author may have borrowed time travel,
space travel, country life, boarding school stories,
elves, dwarfs, epic battles, sea journeys, or dragons
from the storytelling pool of literary 'types'. 

I mean, does this label of 'derivative' mean that once
someone has used dragons in their story, all other 
authors should not use dragons for fear of being 
derivative? I don't think so, it's not the fact that
an author used a dragon, but what they did with the
dragon. Each author brings new ideas and new concepts
into the idea of a dragon in a story. 

Instead of a derivative 'character' can we then expand
this prohibition to true genres? If one author writes
a Mystery, should all other authors then cease to write
mysteries for fear of being derivative? Again, it's not
about the fact that an author wrote a mystery, but what
they actually did with the mystery they wrote. 

I think Paolini did a fantastic job with the characters 
and with the genre he wrote.


> 
> 
> > bboyminn continues:
> > ...
> > Deeper and more complex than Harry Potter, and 
> > probably not for young readers who are not 
> > sophisticated. 
> > ...
> > 
> 
> 
> Kemper now:
> I am honestly surprised with this discription.  I would
> agree that it is deeper than LotR ... but their 
> complexity seems about the same. I would say HP is as 
> deep as Eragon, but HP is definitely more complex than
> Eragon.
> 

bboyminn:

I guess it hinges on how we define 'deeper' and 'complex'.
I wasn't in any way trying to discredit Harry Potter which
I dearly love. I'm simply saying that the average young
under 12 reader might find 'Eragon' a difficult slog, 
whereas the same reader would probably find Harry Potter
a delight. Now for a sophisticated reader of say 12 and
over, I'm sure if the are fantasy fans, they will find
'Eragon' a delight in the same vein as Harry Potter. 
Though I personally think Harry is a better story, but 
none the less, Eragon is a very good story.


> > bboymins conludes:
> > Steve/bboyminn - feeling the need to defend 'Eragon'
> > where ever he goes.
> 
> Kemper finishing off:
> ...
> 
> I really want to like Eragon.  I think the story had 
> plenty of new spins to be fun, but it didn't play out 
> for me.  Maybe reading Eldest will help but it seems so
> long.  And DH is coming out soon.  I wasted a summer on
> LotR many years ago... I don't know if I have the time 
> for Eldest.
> 
> Kemper, 

bboyminn:

'Eldest' in someways reminds me of OotP and HBP, they were
good stories, but the author was coming to the end of the
series and certain things had to happen to set up the 
final book. That hampers the plot. Just as Harry had to
go certain places and do certain things, Eragon is the
same, since this is a trilogy. So, there are aspects of
Eragon that slow the plot slightly that are set ups for
the final book.

And yes there are aspects that are predictable, for 
example, I could see clearly what was happening to 
Murtagh and what it meant for the second book. But I
didn't care. I still found Murtagh an interesting 
character, not just interesting, but I cared about him
and I am eager to see how he escape what fate has dealt
him in the second book. Still I could see it coming a 
mile away as he moved into the second books, but I am
completely baffled by how he will turn out in the final
book. In some sense, he is the Snape of Eragon; is he
good or is he evil, is he acting of his own free will or
is he forced, will he live or will he die, if he lives
or dies will it be in heroic fashion or in infamy? 
Enquiring minds want to know.

My original point is that there are some slightly slow
points is 'Eldest', but the book is saved because it is
really two books in one. It is the continuing story of
Eragon - Shade Slayer, and as you will discover, Roran 
- Strong Hammer. It continually shifts between the two
stories eventually merging them at the end. Further
Eragon travels to some exciting new places and sees
some amazing things, and I found each half of the 
story as captivating as the other. 

But...alas...not every book is for everyone. Sometimes
you like a book and sometimes you don't, and there is
no explaining it; it just is. Many many of my friends
recommended 'Lord of the Rings' to me, but it was a 
miserable read. Perhaps now that I've seen the movie
and have a general idea of the story, I might be able
to follow it, but I'm not eager to try. I'm very picky
about books because, what will and will not captivate 
me is very unpredictable, and I don't feel I have the
financial reserves to buy books and not like them,
especially at today's book prices. Also note, we have
a very limited small town local library. So, I look 
long and hard before I make a purchase. I have no 
regrets at buying Eragon and Eldest, and I am eagerly 
waiting for the final book to come out. 

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn - who never starts out to write a long
post but it invariably ends up that way.