From zanelupin at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 04:22:32 2007 From: zanelupin at yahoo.com (KathyK) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:22:32 -0000 Subject: STOP Posting Spoilers Here! Re: Harry and Hermione Wierdness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Everyone, While it may turn out that we completely lift the spoiler ban on OTC in the near future, this has not happened yet. So. Stop posting DH spoilers on this list! I am deleting this thread and any other message containing spoilers. If you want to post DH spoilers with abandon, go vote in the poll to let us know that. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=2548787 Thanks, KathyK / Zaney Elf From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 04:29:17 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:29:17 -0000 Subject: Agreeing with Zaney Elf Message-ID: SPOILER-FREE ZONE The OT-Chatter list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPfGU-OTChatter) has been designated as a spoiler-free zone, for the benefit of members of our community who will not have immediate access to DH. Any post to this list containing DH spoilers will be deleted and the poster will be placed on moderated status! Of course, discussion of release-night events and parties, and to announce that you've finished the book and are ready to chat (see below), is welcome on OTC. If you have any questions, contact the list elves at HPforGrownups- owner at yahoogroups.com or contact any one of us. A skeleton crew will be on hand to assist you. From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/32545 Marvin Elf From dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 1 13:19:30 2007 From: dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk (Tim Regan) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:19:30 +0100 Subject: Philosopher's Stone back covers: explanation from HBP? Message-ID: <007b01c7d43e$99451210$cbcf3630$@co.uk> Hi All, Like many of us I've gone back after reading Deathly Hallows to start again, at book one. A colleague at work has been doing the same and one of the first things that struck us was that the back cover of our UK Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone were different! Lorna's was clearly a picture of Dumbledore, sticking pretty closely to the description in that first book. Here's the picture in the Leaky Gallery: - mine http://gallery.the-leaky-cauldron.org/picture/124773 http://tinyurl.com/36p8ee - Lorna's http://gallery.the-leaky-cauldron.org/picture/1220 http://tinyurl.com/298k2t The obvious question is who is the magician on the reverse of my copy? The HP Lexicon has an answer: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/ps/rg-ps00.html http://tinyurl.com/38otu8 >>> The original Bloomsbury cover by Thomas Taylor includes a rather bizarre-looking figure on the back. The man in the picture really doesn't match any character in the book, although fans have speculated that it is supposed to represent either Dumbledore or Quirrell. After a few editions, the back cover was changed with a new image, this time clearly identifiable as Dumbledore, even holding a Put-Outer: <<< But there's an interesting thread on Leaky's forum started by "Pheonix-Fire" (http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showtopic=27821 http://tinyurl.com/2rnn6l ) that has a wonderful explanation: >>> Now, reading "Half Blood Prince" (Spoiler warnings ahead people), I was reading chapter 13, "The Secret Riddle", when Harry enters the pensive with Dumbledore. Here we are given s description of Dumbledore again, as a younger man: "This younger Albus Dumbledore's long hair and beard were auburn. Having reached the side of the pavement, drawing many curious glances due to the flamboyantly cut suit of plum velvet that he was wearing." To me, this seems like the description of the image that I have on my copy of "The Philosopher's Stone". but if it is, why would this be. An image of Dumbledore that would not appear until 5 books later puzzles me. Of course I may be just guessing randomly, the image may not be Dumbledore at all, but it stills seems pretty odd to me. And if it isn't Dumbledore, then who is it? <<< And Thestral_1508 speculates: >>> Maybe the 'Secret Riddle' chapter in book six was originally intended to be in book one but at the last minute, Jo or the editors didn't think it fitted with the book and therefore removed it, but obviously, the back cover art wasn't changed. It must have been really last minute though.....I could imagine the chapter being maybe the first chapter in book one, but it probably would have given too much away. <<< Intriguing huh? Cheers, Dumbledad. ___________________________________________________________ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From bboyminn at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 17:36:24 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:36:24 -0000 Subject: Vaguely - Dan and the Family Tree Message-ID: As many of you are aware, JKR hand wrote a section of the Black Family Tree on a piece of paper that was later auctioned off. Recently, there was a discussion about the accuracy of the HP Lexicon's Black Family Tree. In this discussion the person said a friend of his specifically went and viewed the piece of paper and copied it down for the HP Lexicon. So, they were highly confident of it's accuracy. However, in the discussion, they kept referring to the person who had bought the Black Family Tree at auction as 'Dan', and wondered whether 'Dan' would ever make it public. My first thought was Dan Radcliffe had bought it at auction, but I don't recall reading about this at the time, and I assume it would have been big news. Can anyone confirm or deny whether it actually was Dan Radcliffe who bought the Black Family Tree at auction? Steve/bboyminn From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 19:18:44 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:18:44 -0000 Subject: Vaguely - Dan and the Family Tree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > > As many of you are aware, JKR hand wrote a section of > the Black Family Tree on a piece of paper that was later > auctioned off. > > Recently, there was a discussion about the accuracy of > the HP Lexicon's Black Family Tree. In this discussion > the person said a friend of his specifically went and > viewed the piece of paper and copied it down for the > HP Lexicon. So, they were highly confident of it's > accuracy. > > > However, in the discussion, they kept referring to the > person who had bought the Black Family Tree at auction > as 'Dan', and wondered whether 'Dan' would ever make > it public. > > My first thought was Dan Radcliffe had bought it at > auction, but I don't recall reading about this at > the time, and I assume it would have been big news. > > Can anyone confirm or deny whether it actually was > Dan Radcliffe who bought the Black Family Tree at > auction? > > Steve/bboyminn > Alla: Yes, I cannot be 100% sure and cannot refer you to the link, but I am pretty sure I remember reading that Dan Radcliffe's mother bought it for him. From coriandra2002 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 21:27:16 2007 From: coriandra2002 at yahoo.com (coriandra2002) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 21:27:16 -0000 Subject: OT-but I believe that's what this group is for Message-ID: I don't understand the term Young Adult. To me, a young adult is someone between the age of eighteen and twenty-five. Why does the book industry put everyone over eight in that category? coriandra2002 From jillily3g at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 00:48:36 2007 From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 00:48:36 -0000 Subject: OT-but I believe that's what this group is for In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "coriandra2002" wrote: > > I don't understand the term Young Adult. To me, a young adult is > someone between the age of eighteen and twenty-five. Why does the > book industry put everyone over eight in that category? > > coriandra2002 I don't have a good answer for you, but I /knew/ this had been discussed once before. (I asked the question back then.) I found it here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/15702 I do know it's been frustrating sometimes as the parent of teens to see what is marketed to them. Beth From marion11111 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 02:52:00 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 02:52:00 -0000 Subject: OT-but I believe that's what this group is for In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > coriandra2002: > I don't understand the term Young Adult. To me, a young adult is > someone between the age of eighteen and twenty-five. Why does the > book industry put everyone over eight in that category? Because if you told a 13-year-old they were reading a children's book, they'd be horrified. I don't know why they don't say Teen books, but they don't. It *is* ironic since the group you describe don't read Young Adult books. They read adult books. Of course, saying Adult books sounds like porn . . . . marion11111 From Mhochberg at aol.com Thu Aug 2 03:51:18 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:51:18 EDT Subject: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Saddest - book 7 Message-ID: Mary: I'm moving this over before the list elves tell me to! S P O I L E R S P A C E S P O I L E R S P A C E billg wrote: My wife and I spent 7/21 and 7/22 listening to Jim Dale read DH. His reading of Harry's "Dobby, no, don't die, don't die" captured perfectly Harry's horror at Dobby's grave condition. The gentleness with which he described Dobby's death was very appropriate to the passing of a simple, innocent, loyal, and courageous soul. I'm glad that my first encounter with DH was through Jim Dale's reading, for he brilliantly communicated this moment and many others. ~~~ Oh, my YES! I did the same thing. Jim did a wonderful job with this book and Dobby's death was the more poignant because of Jim. The slowing of the sentences, the gentle emphasis of certain words, the pauses between Harry's thoughts, all made this scene so much more real, more shocking, to me. One of the wisest decisions I made with this book was to listen to it FIRST, then read it myself later. Now that I am reading it, after listening to it twice, I know that I made the right decision. ---Mary, who completed a twin-size afghan while listening to DH ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bboyminn at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 04:27:43 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 04:27:43 -0000 Subject: Song Vid: "Accio Deathly Hallows" by the Brotherhood Message-ID: Two brothers have abandon communication with each other by any means other than YouTube Video Blogs. One brother has composed a song about his anticipation of the release of "Deathly Hallows". It's actually pretty funny. Enjoy - VlogBrothers- "Accio Deathly Hallows" http://youtube.com/watch?v=CvvFiZyEyTA Steve/bboyminn From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Aug 2 06:18:01 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 02:18:01 -0400 Subject: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Saddest - book 7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JM400JMAUUD88W0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> No Spoilers Here!!! I will just say that listening to Jim read HP is always a supreme pleasure for me and my husband, Art. Book 7 was no exception to that rule. I viewed on the net today his hosting at the B&N New York City release and loved the way he interacted with his audience. I only hope I have half as much energy when I reach his age, 71. Talk about a live wire! And, as I have said in previous posts about Jim, he is truly a decent, nice man. It's interesting to me that Jim had never read an audiobook until he was asked to do HP-SS, and now look...he's done the whole Potter series, and has done some other wonderful works. So, just as many of us derived such pleasure from his HP work, he has also become a strong advocate of audiobooks, so it's a win-win thing. :-) Just my two knuts worth. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Thu Aug 2 08:30:59 2007 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 04:30:59 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Vaguely - Dan and the Family Tree Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2007 1:43:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bboyminn at yahoo.com writes: Can anyone confirm or deny whether it actually was Dan Radcliffe who bought the Black Family Tree at auction? Sandy: It was Dan Radcliffe who purchased the drawing. All the details are at The Leaky Cauldron. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sherriola at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 13:47:22 2007 From: sherriola at gmail.com (Sherry Gomes) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 06:47:22 -0700 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Saddest - book 7 In-Reply-To: <0JM400JMAUUD88W0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <46b1e06e.26588c0a.5b7f.749a@mx.google.com> Lee: No Spoilers Here!!! I will just say that listening to Jim read HP is always a supreme pleasure for me and my husband, Art. Book 7 was no exception to that rule. Sherry: Yes, I enjoyed it too. He's been the voice of Harry Potter to me for all seven books, though I will now have to set aside time in the next few weeks to start reading the braille version. However, I noticed some of his voices were a little different this time. Vernon started out being a bit different than his previous voice, and I think there were one or two others. But the other characters, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore, Snape and Lupin, were all instantly recognizable, even before the text told us who was speaking. Sherry From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Aug 2 17:07:46 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:07:46 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Saddest - book 7 In-Reply-To: <46b1e06e.26588c0a.5b7f.749a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0JM50029BOX94W80@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> | Sherry: | | Yes, I enjoyed it too. He's been the voice of Harry Potter | to me for all | seven books, though I will now have to set aside time in the | next few weeks | to start reading the braille version. However, I noticed | some of his voices | were a little different this time. Vernon started out being | a bit different | than his previous voice, and I think there were one or two | others. But the | other characters, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore, Snape and | Lupin, were | all instantly recognizable, even before the text told us who | was speaking. [Lee]: Yes, I noticed some of that, but I figure when one has done so many different voices it gets tough keeping up with which voice is which. He says he keeps notes on voices, but still, it must be tough. I'm going through COS again and noticed that some of his voices seemed strained and, the more I listened, I could hear a hoarseness and wonder if he had some problems with allergies. You can definitely hear when he does the howler...there's a definite strained quality. Whatever caused it, I have to applaud him for continuing, even if I want to shake him for straining his wonderful voice. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From Mhochberg at aol.com Thu Aug 2 19:13:50 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:13:50 EDT Subject: Philosopher's Stone back covers: explanation from HBP? Message-ID: Dumbledad & TLC: >>> The original Bloomsbury cover by Thomas Taylor includes a rather bizarre-looking figure on the back. The man in the picture really doesn't match any character in the book, although fans have speculated that it is supposed to represent either Dumbledore or Quirrell. ~~~ Mary: Thank you so much for posting this! I've wondered who the wizard on the back cover was supposed to be! Since so there are already so many differences between PS & SS, I just figured it was a "generic UK wizard" and left it at that. I was much more interested in the text differences between the two books. One of my favorite memories is of my then 12 year old niece, listening to Jim Dale read the US edition, while she followed along with the UK version. ---Mary ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mhochberg at aol.com Thu Aug 2 19:38:06 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:38:06 EDT Subject: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Saddest - book 7 Message-ID: Lee writes: It's interesting to me that Jim had never read an audiobook until he was asked to do HP-SS, and now look...he's done the whole Potter series, and has done some other wonderful works. So, just as many of us derived such pleasure from his HP work, he has also become a strong advocate of audiobooks, so it's a win-win thing. :-) ~~~~~ Mary: Jim IS inspirational. This is my favorite bit and I remember it when I am pushed to do something new. This is from an interview he did in 2003 with Rochelle O'Gorman. It's no longer on line but there is a similar one on Jim's website. _http://www.jim-dale.com/rochelle_o'gorman.htm_ (http://www.jim-dale.com/rochelle_o'gorman.htm) O?GORMAN: Right. That makes sense. How did you get the Harry Potter project in the first place? DALE: Well, obviously they were looking for somebody who could do voices. One guy in the office mentioned to Tim Ditlow that Jim Dale had been in a play on Broadway called ?Travels With my Aunt? and in it the three actors on stage were doing a total of 33 characters. And they said, ?Wow, that?s the sort of actor we need.? So I was hired for the job and asked if I would like to do it, and I said yes. And then it was only after I signed the contract they found out that the other two actors in the play did 31 characters and Jim Dale himself only did the nephew. In ?Travels With my Aunt? I only played the Maggie Smith role. That?s the nephew role, but by that time it was too late. ---Mary ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kempermentor at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 20:27:44 2007 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Best ISP for Skype Message-ID: <293140.66674.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, My brother inlaw recently hooked up Skype with our PC. Explorer hates it and frequently attempts to shut expecially after closing windows by hitting the 'x' button. Should I install firefox? I hear its a great isp, but have been to lazy in the past to do so. Thanks for any and all tech advise! Kemper ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Aug 2 21:53:09 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:53:09 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Best ISP for Skype In-Reply-To: <293140.66674.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0JM6001TB24XL8N0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> [Kemper]: | Hi all, | My brother inlaw recently hooked up Skype with our PC. | Explorer hates it and frequently attempts to shut | expecially after closing windows by hitting the 'x' | button. | | Should I install firefox? I hear its a great isp, but | have been to lazy in the past to do so. [Lee]: First of all, Explorer and Firefox are called "Browsers." An ISP is your "Internet Service Provider" such as AOL, Comcast, Verizon, etc. It's possible that you are having a windows glitch and the only way to fix it fast would be to reformat and re-install everything. Could you write me off list and give me a better, more detailed description of what is happening? Perhaps I can help you so you don't have to reformat. Give my e-mail address to your B-in-L and I'll be happy to talk to him, too. Normally, I don't put phone numbers on list, but I can put my skype-in number which is 973-786-1246. If you're using straight skype, my ID is lady-chocolee. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Fri Aug 3 06:32:38 2007 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 02:32:38 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Sad... Message-ID: In a message dated 8/2/2007 2:19:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, n2fgc at arrl.net writes: I viewed on the net today his hosting at the B&N New York City release and loved the way he interacted with his audience. I only hope I have half as much energy when I reach his age, 71. Talk about a live wire! And, as I have said in previous posts about Jim, he is truly a decent, nice man. Hi Lee, I would love to see this. Would you mind posting a link? Thanks, Sandy ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From n2fgc at arrl.net Fri Aug 3 14:27:13 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:27:13 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Jim Dale's reading; was Re: Whose Death Was The Sad... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JM700LLEC5VSU20@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Sandy, I don't have the link handy, but you can probably find it through www.jim-dale.com where there is a lot of interesting stuff to read and watch. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From nkafkafi at yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 00:33:15 2007 From: nkafkafi at yahoo.com (Neri) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:33:15 -0000 Subject: Best ISP for Skype In-Reply-To: <293140.66674.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor wrote: > > Hi all, > My brother inlaw recently hooked up Skype with our PC. > Explorer hates it and frequently attempts to shut > expecially after closing windows by hitting the 'x' > button. > > Should I install firefox? I hear its a great isp, but > have been to lazy in the past to do so. > > Thanks for any and all tech advise! > Neri: I'm a happy user of both Skype and Firefox for about two years now, and I've never encountered any problems between them. On the contrary, they work quite well together. You can even download a Firefox extension from Skype that highlights any phone number you see on the web, so that you can immediately call it through Skype just by clicking on it (but of course you'll need a "Skype-out" account in order to call usual phones. The cost is quite low, however, and calling other Skype users is free). Neri From infolove at verizon.net Sat Aug 4 11:55:10 2007 From: infolove at verizon.net (cal_corner) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 11:55:10 -0000 Subject: Hello Message-ID: I love reading books and am interested in discovering the Harry Potter books. Andrew http://www.haloink.com From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 16:49:10 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (kismit1496) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:49:10 -0000 Subject: Ques re DH and any fan lit books Message-ID: I was ok with DH but not thrilled. There were parts I was disappointed with but all in all was semi-satisfied. Then a friend of mine sent me a fan written seventh novel. Truly the best of both worlds would be to combine both taking the best of each. I'm wondering if anyone else has any links to more fan lit that is well written. From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 17:37:33 2007 From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: DH as wedding favor - broken spines? Message-ID: <512731.47104.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> A fellow HP fan and friend of mine was in a wedding party. For a wedding taking place on July 21st. She was not a happy camper but she is a trooper and did the grown-up thing: skipped her tradition of staying up all night to devour the newest canon in order to be up to the rigors of celebrating her friends' nuptials. In turn, the bride and groom gave copies of Deathly Hallows to some of their wedding party members and guests. Talk about a unique wedding favor - that heavy tome probably would have been easier to tote around by pink ribbons though, come to think of it. Maybe this is why JKR did not release her book on July 7th - it was an extremely popular day to get married! There is only one tiny glitch in this cute story: my friend and her husband both received copies and *both* their copies' spines have *broken* though neither of the books met with rough treatment. Has anyone heard of problems with the bindings on some of the US hardbacks of DH? I know my copy is fine but it would seem the quality control on some batches are not up to par. Petra a n :) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From catlady at wicca.net Sat Aug 4 19:17:43 2007 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 19:17:43 -0000 Subject: Bloomsbury's live chat - Monday 30 July, 2007 @ 2 - 3 p BST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Juli "jlnbtr" wrote in : << I forgot the chat... I had summited a few questions but none got picked... anyway, the transcript is available at The Leaky Cauldron and> it is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G... lots and lots of details http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/7/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat-transcript >> Thanks much for the link. She answered a ton of questions, but not why Peeves fears/obeys the Bloody Baron and no explanation of The Prank. From jlnbtr at yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 19:35:43 2007 From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 19:35:43 -0000 Subject: Bloomsbury's live chat - Monday 30 July, 2007 @ 2 - 3 p BST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > Juli "jlnbtr" wrote in > : > > << I forgot the chat... I had summited a few questions but none got > picked... anyway, the transcript is available at The Leaky Cauldron > and> it is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G... lots and lots of details > http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/7/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat- transcript > >> > > Thanks much for the link. She answered a ton of questions, but not why > Peeves fears/obeys the Bloody Baron and no explanation of The Prank. > Any time! You know, we may still get more cannon from her website From drdara at yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 22:18:53 2007 From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 15:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DH as wedding favor - broken spines? Message-ID: <945072.67260.qm@web60716.mail.yahoo.com> Mine has broken, happened right away, I debated taking it back and getting another one but decided if mine was like that then most of what the store would have would be like that as well. But I plan on getting paperbacks of the British ones soon so, doens't matter either way I guess. I just have to be careful with it. Danielle Petra: A fellow HP fan and friend of mine was in a wedding party. For a wedding taking place on July 21st. She was not a happy camper but she is a trooper and did the grown-up thing: skipped her tradition of staying up all night to devour the newest canon in order to be up to the rigors of celebrating her friends' nuptials. In turn, the bride and groom gave copies of Deathly Hallows to some of their wedding party members and guests. Talk about a unique wedding favor - that heavy tome probably would have been easier to tote around by pink ribbons though, come to think of it. Maybe this is why JKR did not release her book on July 7th - it was an extremely popular day to get married! There is only one tiny glitch in this cute story: my friend and her husband both received copies and *both* their copies' spines have *broken* though neither of the books met with rough treatment. Has anyone heard of problems with the bindings on some of the US hardbacks of DH? I know my copy is fine but it would seem the quality control on some batches are not up to par. Petra a n :) ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink. yahoo.com/ gmrs/yahoo_ panel_invite. asp?a=7 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From n2fgc at arrl.net Sun Aug 5 02:23:45 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 22:23:45 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DH as wedding favor - broken spines? In-Reply-To: <945072.67260.qm@web60716.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0JMA001UD40503E0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> If this is happening, someone should let scholastic know about it. Perhaps you can get another copy from them. It seems most unacceptable to me to pay a pretty galleon for a hardback book which should last for many years and have the spine break on first opening. Seriously, I would strongly encourage anyone having this problem to write to scholastic and, if possible, send a photo of the broken spine and a copy of the receipt (if applicable). Cheers, Lee (Who don't take "No" for an answer) :-) | -----Original Message----- | From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com | [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danielle dassero | Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 18:19 | To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com | Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DH as wedding favor - broken spines? | | Mine has broken, happened right away, I debated taking it | back and getting another one but decided if mine was like | that then most of what the store would have would be like | that as well. But I plan on getting paperbacks of the British | ones soon so, doens't matter either way I guess. I just have | to be careful with it. | Danielle | | | Petra: | | | A fellow HP fan and friend of mine was in a wedding party. | For a wedding taking place on July 21st. | | She was not a happy camper but she is a trooper and did the | grown-up thing: skipped her tradition of staying up all night | to devour the newest canon in order to be up to the rigors of | celebrating her friends' nuptials. In turn, the bride and | groom gave copies of Deathly Hallows to some of their wedding | party members and guests. Talk about a unique wedding favor - | that heavy tome probably would have been easier to tote | around by pink ribbons though, come to think of it. | Maybe this is why JKR did not release her book on July 7th - | it was an extremely popular day to get married! | | There is only one tiny glitch in this cute story: my friend | and her husband both received copies and *both* their copies' | spines have *broken* though neither of the books met with | rough treatment. | | Has anyone heard of problems with the bindings on some of the | US hardbacks of DH? I know my copy is fine but it would seem | the quality control on some batches are not up to par. | | Petra | a | n :) | | | | | ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ | Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join | Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink. | yahoo.com/ gmrs/yahoo_ panel_invite. asp?a=7 | | | | | | | ______________________________________________________________ | ______________________ | Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. | http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ | | [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | | | | ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ | | The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them! | http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2 | | Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary | material from posts to which you're replying! | | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 5 15:45:54 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 5 Aug 2007 15:45:54 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/5/2007, 11:00 am Message-ID: <1186328754.14.9719.m53@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 5, 2007 11:00 am - 12:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 5 17:41:43 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 5 Aug 2007 17:41:43 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/5/2007, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1186335703.115.65358.m50@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 5, 2007 1:00 pm - 1:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 23:19:46 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:19:46 -0000 Subject: STOP Posting Spoilers Here! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "KathyK" wrote: > While it may turn out that we completely lift the spoiler ban on OTC in the near future, this has not happened yet. > > So. Stop posting DH spoilers on this list! > > If you want to post DH spoilers with abandon, go vote in the poll to let us know that. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=2548787 Carol responds: I tried to vote in the poll, but it seems to be closed. I wanted to cast a vote for spoiler space because I want to discuss how to present a certain somewhat troubling aspect of the book to children, a topic not appropriate to the main list. (Anyone who's read the main list lately will have no trouble guessing what that topic is.) Carol, hoping that the policy will be lifted soon From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 23:37:27 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:37:27 -0000 Subject: Bloomsbury's live chat - Monday 30 July, 2007 @ 2 - 3 p BST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Catlady wrote: > Thanks much for the link. She answered a ton of questions, but not why Peeves fears/obeys the Bloody Baron and no explanation of The Prank. Carol responds: Oh, I think we can figure that first one out! ;-) Carol, suggesting that you check chapter 29 From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 02:47:51 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:47:51 -0000 Subject: Bloomsbury's live chat - Monday 30 July, 2007 @ 2 - 3 p BST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > Oh, I think we can figure that first one out! ;-) > > Carol, suggesting that you check chapter 29 > Carol again: Make that chapter 31. Sorry! Carol, hiding behind a suit of armor From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 05:54:41 2007 From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 05:54:41 -0000 Subject: STOP Posting Spoilers Here! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > "KathyK" wrote: > > > While it may turn out that we completely lift the spoiler ban on OTC in the near future, this has not happened yet. > > > > So. Stop posting DH spoilers on this list! > Carol responded: > I tried to vote in the poll, but it seems to be closed. I wanted to > cast a vote for spoiler space because I want to discuss how to present a certain somewhat troubling aspect of the book to children, a topic not appropriate to the main list. Carol, hoping that the policy will be lifted soon Doddie here: I agree with you Carol..and I understand your topic not appropriate to the main list...I tried posting on the main a couple of times..but my most pressing issues were not to be addressed there alone...so my e'mail is full of drafts of my responses to a number of subjects...which I did not post because I could pare down responses if I could post two posts on the two different message boards.. *heavy sigh* It's hard to wait..I oft wonder if they have a formula calculated to determine the time it took JKR to write said novel diveded my the recipricol of the emtionality of said novel multiplied by the number of copies sold LOL! Although I think it may take longer than most of the other books seeing as this is the last one and this is the last time a no spoiler zone can be enforced---therefore all the complaints they've had over lifting the no spoiler zone in the last decade can now be enforced to it's fullest...although I seem to remember a time when this was a spoiler zone..I could be wrong though. Doddiemoe, (who has read the final book three times, the last time after reading the prior six...and then read two additional (new)books this weekend..and now...in my reading list for the week...there is still a Potter novel involved...also a re=read of the Namesake which probably left me more at peace with any book(or nursery rhyme) I could ever read..or have ever done.(which was a long time coming believe you me.) From kkersey at swbell.net Mon Aug 6 14:31:30 2007 From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:31:30 -0000 Subject: DH as wedding favor - broken spines? In-Reply-To: <0JMA001UD40503E0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force" wrote: > > If this is happening, someone should let scholastic know about it. Perhaps > you can get another copy from them. Scholastic contact info: 1-800-SCHOLASTIC or custserv at scholastic.com Or, what the hell, you could send a howler to the printer: http://www.quebecorworldinc.com/main.aspx?id=668 (The Manufacturing Manager's email and phone is listed on that page.) For what it's worth my own copy of DH is securely bound and doesn't look like it is in any danger of breaking. But the glue does seem sloppy, oozing out in places. I just checked my other HP books and they seem much neater. The manufacturer (printer/binder) is listed on the very last page, the one with the typeset info and so on. One thing I noticed is that for HBP there was a disclaimer about the paper containing no fibers from ancient forests; for DH no mention of that. :( Of course, I really wish Scholastic had used recycled paper content for the HP books, like Bloomsbury does. Elisabet From emmayrosa at yahoo.com.mx Mon Aug 6 18:51:17 2007 From: emmayrosa at yahoo.com.mx (emmaiveth) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:51:17 -0000 Subject: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote: > > emmaiveth wrote: > > I must comment that although I am fluent in english and it?s > possible to buy the english /american version(and I do read it in > english). It is always very much spoiled for everyone who reads it in > another language: here in mexico they at least take 6 months sometimes > more in translating (sometimes with awful mistakes) > > Carol responds: > > When you've read the Mexican translation, assuming that the spoiler > policy has lifted, maybe you can entertain us with some of those awful > mistakes. Or how about some mistakes from earlier books? I know I'd be > entertained, and I know at least one other poster from this list who > would be, too. (Waves to Mila.) > > Carol, who thinks that some of us here could use a smile right now > Hi Carol, Well actually I?d have to re-read them in english and in spanish, sometimes you can?t catch them unless yu know what the exact words were in english and the ones that were obvious, well, I can?t remember just now were they are (which book)but I?ll post them later. on. From emmayrosa at yahoo.com.mx Mon Aug 6 18:57:25 2007 From: emmayrosa at yahoo.com.mx (emmaiveth) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:57:25 -0000 Subject: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jlnbtr" wrote: > Hi Emma, > You know a book like this is sold pretty much everywere (the english > version at first). I know you can get the book in Latin America (I > read it somewhere), so check your bookstore, since you're fluent in > English you shouldn't have any trouble reading it (I think), then you > wouldn't have to wait for months until it's translated into spanish. > Even if your local bookstore doesn't sell it, you could always order > it from a mayor bookstore in Mexico city or simply order it from the > internet. Mayor retailers like Amazon and Barnes and Nobles deliver > abroad, there's an extra cost of course, but what's 10 dollars > compared to reading the DH? > > Hope you get the book soon, it's worth every penny. > > Cheers, > Juli Hi Juli, Actually we do get it in almost every bookstore and mine I got on the 25th and finished it by the 27th but I?ve been in mourning for the series so I hadn?t answered any post. I?m planning to reread them all soon. Emma From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 02:24:44 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:24:44 -0000 Subject: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > > > When you've read the Mexican translation, assuming that the spoiler policy has lifted, maybe you can entertain us with some of those awful mistakes. Or how about some mistakes from earlier books? I know I'd be entertained, and I know at least one other poster from this list who would be, too. (Waves to Mila.) emmaiveth (hope I'm attributing this post correctly): > Hi Carol, > > Well actually I?d have to re-read them in english and in spanish, sometimes you can?t catch them unless yu know what the exact words were in english and the ones that were obvious, well, I can?t remember just now were they are (which book)but I?ll post them later. on. > Carol again: I was thinking in terms of obvious errors that result in hilarious images like the troll in SS/PS having a head the size of a cocoa bean (instead of a coconut) in the Chinese translation or errors that pose problems later, like giving Scabbers a feminine name in the Russian translation (oops!). Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here From n2fgc at arrl.net Tue Aug 7 03:23:08 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:23:08 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JMD00MGCW2TXFX0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> [Carol]: | Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived | failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here [Lee]: Technically, I'm subbed to the main list but haven't been reading as the traffic flow is something I just don't have time to deal with. So, there's disappointment about DH? Not on my end. :-) I only have three little burning questions and one slight disappointment, but, for me, the book did everything it should have done. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Tue Aug 7 03:42:40 2007 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:42:40 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DH as wedding favor - broken spines? In-Reply-To: <512731.47104.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <512731.47104.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9A6BC2380F324-F44-8A2D@webmail-de16.sysops.aol.com> Petra: Has anyone heard of problems with the bindings on some of the US hardbacks of DH? I know my copy is fine but it would seem the quality control on some batches are not up to par. Sandy: We sell the book where I work. None have been returned because of problems with the spines, but several have been returned because they are missing 30 pages at the end of the book. That must have been a real bite. No one I know personally has had any problems with their books but there are defective ones out there. Sandy . ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From stevejjen at earthlink.net Tue Aug 7 03:44:51 2007 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 03:44:51 -0000 Subject: Link to online book reviews for DH? Message-ID: Does anyone know a good site to read pro/con reviews of DH, from sources other than newspapers or magazines? I'm imagining a site that pulls reviews from literary publications and other specialized sources if someone has a recommendation. Thanks, Jen From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 18:21:57 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: <0JMD00MGCW2TXFX0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <638099.22882.qm@web60925.mail.yahoo.com> I left the main group because it was just a lil too intense for me! "Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force" wrote: [Carol]: | Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived | failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here [Lee]: Technically, I'm subbed to the main list but haven't been reading as the traffic flow is something I just don't have time to deal with. So, there's disappointment about DH? Not on my end. :-) I only have three little burning questions and one slight disappointment, but, for me, the book did everything it should have done. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From taguem at jmsearch.com Tue Aug 7 18:41:09 2007 From: taguem at jmsearch.com (Michelle Tague) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:41:09 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: <638099.22882.qm@web60925.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I?m still on it, but switched to digest?and omg, the traffic on that list is AMAZING! Have a great day! Michelle Tague _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Julie Borgmann Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 2:22 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH in other languages I left the main group because it was just a lil too intense for me! "Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force" wrote: [Carol]: | Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived | failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here [Lee]: Technically, I'm subbed to the main list but haven't been reading as the traffic flow is something I just don't have time to deal with. So, there's disappointment about DH? Not on my end. :-) I only have three little burning questions and one slight disappointment, but, for me, the book did everything it should have done. Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | HYPERLINK "mailto:n2fgc%40arrl.net"n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | HYPERLINK "mailto:n2fgc%40optonline.net"n2fgc at optonline.-net Walk beside me, and be my friend. Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 ------------------------------------ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 8/6/2007 4:53 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 8/6/2007 4:53 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 19:43:48 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:43:48 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy Message-ID: "Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here." I've already spoken about this with Carol off-line, but it might be something worth discussing in the group. I speculated, as I often do, that the reason some people are so vehemently outspoken and disappointed in the 7th book, is because they've had so many years of speculation about what they thought the book was going to be about, that no book could ever live up to it. I remember speculating about what the 6th book was going to be about. I was absolutely convinced that the central McGuffin was going to be a fight between Harry and Draco over the Black Family Estate, and elaborated on it in many long posts. Imagine my disappointment when Dumbledore (and JKR) glossed over the whole thing in a couple of short paragraphs. I think it is critically important to live in two separate and unrelated /modes/ with regard to reading these books or any other. Mode 1 is reader and only reader. When you read, you simply accept that what is...is. Let the flow of the story sweep you away and enjoy the ride. Mode 2 is analyzer. I keep my analysis of the books separate from my reading and enjoyment of the books, and I hope and pray when JKR sees some of the negative criticism of here last book, she understands that. Even though I my find things to criticize, that is completely separate from my immense enjoyment of reading the books. People who blend those two modes, people who are unable to separate them, are likely the one who were most disappointed. In their minds, after 2 or 3 years of constant obsession and analysis, they think they know what the books should be, and are disappointed when they are not. There are many plot lines I would like to have seen. I would like to see Harry and Petunia sit down and have a heart-to-heart. I would like to have seen what was in Dumbledore's letter to Petunia. ...and many many more subplots that never panned out. But, imagine what a mess the books would have been if JKR had tried to satisfy the obsessions of every fan? If she had tried to give every fan the plot lines they so desperately desired? It would have been a hopeless mess. The only thing an author can do is be true to themselves and to their story, and the fans will either like it or they won't. But if you try to please everyone, in the end, you end up pleasing no one. As a Reader, I was thrilled with the books. More than any other, I simply couldn't put this one down. There wasn't a single dull moment in it for me. I know some people complained about the endless Camping Trip, but I liked that section of the books and really didn't think it was all that long. I'm sure in Analysis, I will find things to complain about, but I hope I am able to keep my complaints in their proper perspective. And most of all, I hope JKR understands that I keep 'Reader' separate from 'Analyzer', and that even if I find something to complain about, as a Reader I still was thrilled with the last book. For what it's worth. Steve/bboyminn From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 19:58:05 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:58:05 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > I think it is critically important to live in two > separate and unrelated /modes/ with regard to > reading these books or any other. > > Mode 1 is reader and only reader. When you read, you > simply accept that what is...is. Let the flow of the > story sweep you away and enjoy the ride. > > Mode 2 is analyzer. I keep my analysis of the books > separate from my reading and enjoyment of the books, > and I hope and pray when JKR sees some of the > negative criticism of here last book, she understands > that. Even though I my find things to criticize, that > is completely separate from my immense enjoyment of > reading the books. > > People who blend those two modes, people who are > unable to separate them, are likely the one who were > most disappointed. In their minds, after 2 or 3 years > of constant obsession and analysis, they think they > know what the books should be, and are disappointed > when they are not. > > There are many plot lines I would like to have seen. > I would like to see Harry and Petunia sit down and > have a heart-to-heart. I would like to have seen what > was in Dumbledore's letter to Petunia. ...and many > many more subplots that never panned out. > > But, imagine what a mess the books would have been > if JKR had tried to satisfy the obsessions of every > fan? If she had tried to give every fan the plot > lines they so desperately desired? It would have been > a hopeless mess. The only thing an author can do is > be true to themselves and to their story, and the > fans will either like it or they won't. But if you > try to please everyone, in the end, you end up > pleasing no one. > > As a Reader, I was thrilled with the books. More than > any other, I simply couldn't put this one down. There > wasn't a single dull moment in it for me. I know some > people complained about the endless Camping Trip, but > I liked that section of the books and really didn't > think it was all that long. I'm sure in Analysis, I > will find things to complain about, but I hope I am > able to keep my complaints in their proper perspective. > > And most of all, I hope JKR understands that I keep > 'Reader' separate from 'Analyzer', and that even if > I find something to complain about, as a Reader I > still was thrilled with the last book. > Alla: I do not know if I would go for **critically important** - everybody reads differently, but for ME, for my experiences what you said is definitely true. It is true in a sense that my experience can be described in a sense that somebody told me offlist. "All the theories I hated are now canon, but she did it so well". I mean, not all theories, but certainly several big ones. I mean, absolutely, I am actually quite proud of myself that no matter how much I wanted some of my wishes to come true, I was still able to live in separate reader mode and enjoy the book immensely. I cannot guess, no, if I was still able to enjoy the book if my major wish would not have come true, BUT I also wanted several other things that did not come close and I still love it, love it, because I am of the opinion that good story is ALL that JKR owes us, nothing more and to me JKR delivered that good story. Opinions differ of course. Again, I fully accept everybody's right to criticise the story, each and every angle of it. After all people who are dissapointed spent many years as well analysing the books, awaiting with the baited breath how the story ends, I feel it is their right as readers to have their say and I certainly find some things to criticise, BUT am I changing my opinion of the worth of the book as a whole? Nope, I think it is a fascinating story, with all plot holes and awkwardness in it. JMO, Alla From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 20:08:13 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <945447.76804.qm@web60924.mail.yahoo.com> Very well put. However after reading DH and being simply a reader when it comes to fiction (why bother to analyze fiction? I just don't see how that could be productive or worthwhile) I discovered a fan based version which definately gave me another avenue to look at as far as resolution. The two were oddly similar - almost too similar in many aspects. However I found that the two intertwined gave me the most comfort in the end. As I was reading DH I kept waiting for a moment bigger than what JKR wrote between Harry and Ginny. But hey its her story so I can't argue with how she ended it either! Steve wrote: "Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here." I've already spoken about this with Carol off-line, but it might be something worth discussing in the group. I speculated, as I often do, that the reason some people are so vehemently outspoken and disappointed in the 7th book, is because they've had so many years of speculation about what they thought the book was going to be about, that no book could ever live up to it. I remember speculating about what the 6th book was going to be about. I was absolutely convinced that the central McGuffin was going to be a fight between Harry and Draco over the Black Family Estate, and elaborated on it in many long posts. Imagine my disappointment when Dumbledore (and JKR) glossed over the whole thing in a couple of short paragraphs. I think it is critically important to live in two separate and unrelated /modes/ with regard to reading these books or any other. Mode 1 is reader and only reader. When you read, you simply accept that what is...is. Let the flow of the story sweep you away and enjoy the ride. Mode 2 is analyzer. I keep my analysis of the books separate from my reading and enjoyment of the books, and I hope and pray when JKR sees some of the negative criticism of here last book, she understands that. Even though I my find things to criticize, that is completely separate from my immense enjoyment of reading the books. People who blend those two modes, people who are unable to separate them, are likely the one who were most disappointed. In their minds, after 2 or 3 years of constant obsession and analysis, they think they know what the books should be, and are disappointed when they are not. There are many plot lines I would like to have seen. I would like to see Harry and Petunia sit down and have a heart-to-heart. I would like to have seen what was in Dumbledore's letter to Petunia. ...and many many more subplots that never panned out. But, imagine what a mess the books would have been if JKR had tried to satisfy the obsessions of every fan? If she had tried to give every fan the plot lines they so desperately desired? It would have been a hopeless mess. The only thing an author can do is be true to themselves and to their story, and the fans will either like it or they won't. But if you try to please everyone, in the end, you end up pleasing no one. As a Reader, I was thrilled with the books. More than any other, I simply couldn't put this one down. There wasn't a single dull moment in it for me. I know some people complained about the endless Camping Trip, but I liked that section of the books and really didn't think it was all that long. I'm sure in Analysis, I will find things to complain about, but I hope I am able to keep my complaints in their proper perspective. And most of all, I hope JKR understands that I keep 'Reader' separate from 'Analyzer', and that even if I find something to complain about, as a Reader I still was thrilled with the last book. For what it's worth. Steve/bboyminn Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From n2fgc at arrl.net Tue Aug 7 20:17:44 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:17:44 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JMF000DJ71QIHF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> [Steve B]: | people complained about the endless Camping Trip, but | I liked that section of the books and really didn't | think it was all that long. [Lee]: Well, that's what happens when on the run; think of all the things Sirius had to go through when on the run. Good thing Dumbledore suggested that cave in Hogsmeade where he could stay, else he would have probably been doing a lot of camping, too. It's just a good thing Hermione is so organized and a good girl scout, so to speak. :-) Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 20:18:17 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:18:17 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: <945447.76804.qm@web60924.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Julie Borgmann wrote: > > Very well put. However after reading DH and being simply a reader when it comes to fiction (why bother to analyze fiction? I just don't see how that could be productive or worthwhile) I discovered a fan based version which definately gave me another avenue to look at as far as resolution. Alla: Heeee, because analysing fiction is fun. That's why I do it anyways :) From taguem at jmsearch.com Tue Aug 7 20:26:31 2007 From: taguem at jmsearch.com (Michelle Tague) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amazingly well said!!! I too would have loved for the Harry Petunia thing to have happened?that was really the one thing I wanted some closure on. Michelle Tague _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:44 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Agony and the Ecstacy "Carol, who thinks that the main list is taking the book's perceived failings too seriously and is hoping for some levity here." I've already spoken about this with Carol off-line, but it might be something worth discussing in the group. I speculated, as I often do, that the reason some people are so vehemently outspoken and disappointed in the 7th book, is because they've had so many years of speculation about what they thought the book was going to be about, that no book could ever live up to it. I remember speculating about what the 6th book was going to be about. I was absolutely convinced that the central McGuffin was going to be a fight between Harry and Draco over the Black Family Estate, and elaborated on it in many long posts. Imagine my disappointment when Dumbledore (and JKR) glossed over the whole thing in a couple of short paragraphs. I think it is critically important to live in two separate and unrelated /modes/ with regard to reading these books or any other. Mode 1 is reader and only reader. When you read, you simply accept that what is...is. Let the flow of the story sweep you away and enjoy the ride. Mode 2 is analyzer. I keep my analysis of the books separate from my reading and enjoyment of the books, and I hope and pray when JKR sees some of the negative criticism of here last book, she understands that. Even though I my find things to criticize, that is completely separate from my immense enjoyment of reading the books. People who blend those two modes, people who are unable to separate them, are likely the one who were most disappointed. In their minds, after 2 or 3 years of constant obsession and analysis, they think they know what the books should be, and are disappointed when they are not. There are many plot lines I would like to have seen. I would like to see Harry and Petunia sit down and have a heart-to-heart. I would like to have seen what was in Dumbledore's letter to Petunia. ...and many many more subplots that never panned out. But, imagine what a mess the books would have been if JKR had tried to satisfy the obsessions of every fan? If she had tried to give every fan the plot lines they so desperately desired? It would have been a hopeless mess. The only thing an author can do is be true to themselves and to their story, and the fans will either like it or they won't. But if you try to please everyone, in the end, you end up pleasing no one. As a Reader, I was thrilled with the books. More than any other, I simply couldn't put this one down. There wasn't a single dull moment in it for me. I know some people complained about the endless Camping Trip, but I liked that section of the books and really didn't think it was all that long. I'm sure in Analysis, I will find things to complain about, but I hope I am able to keep my complaints in their proper perspective. And most of all, I hope JKR understands that I keep 'Reader' separate from 'Analyzer', and that even if I find something to complain about, as a Reader I still was thrilled with the last book. For what it's worth. Steve/bboyminn No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 8/6/2007 4:53 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 8/6/2007 4:53 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 00:46:53 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:46:53 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alla wrote: > It is true in a sense that my experience can be described in a sense that somebody told me offlist. > > "All the theories I hated are now canon, but she did it so well". > I mean, not all theories, but certainly several big ones. Carol responds: My sentiments exactly. > Alla: > BUT I also wanted several other things that did not come close and I still love it, love it, because I am of the opinion that good story is ALL that JKR owes us, nothing more and to me JKR delivered that good story. Carol: Exactly. She never owed us the story we wanted, nor could she have been expected to write it. How many million readers are there, each with his or her own expectations? It's her book; she made me laugh and cry; she made me furious; she made me yell with triumph and glee. Good heavens; if anyone had seen me reading this book, they'd have hauled me to the insane asylum. (I do wonder what the upstairs neighbors thought of the anguished sobs at one point; I don't even know whether it was day or night, but fortunately, no one came running downstairs to investigate.) A good story! I have never experienced such pain and joy and, I confess, disappointment from one book. And I have never been so compelled to read straight through and do nothing else--little food, no sleep, no shower--until I had finished. Maybe it's because I never expected JKR's political or philosophical views to conform to mine. I just wanted an exciting ride and a satisfactory resolution to the main plot threads. So what if Auntie Muriel is 107 (not a spoiler, folks, and not yet one of the plot holes the main list is complaining about!) and supposedly a contemporary of Albus Dumbledore, approximately 157 if he hadn't been killed in HBP. Maybe what she said offlist (twice) about his age was wrong. My reaction is simply to shrug it off and think, "Someone send JKR a calculator. Evidently, she can't afford one." Alla: > Again, I fully accept everybody's right to criticise the story, each > and every angle of it. Carol: Sigh. There's constructive criticism and there's unrealistic, persistent carping and complaining, unsupported by a single instance of canon support. And there's also an adversarial or defensive tone among some posters that makes the place much less inviting than it used to be. I keep wanting to say, instead of talking about what's not in the book, can we please look at what *is* there, at what she actually wrote? I thought that was what the main list is for?? (Okay, I actually *have* said it a couple of times, for all the difference it makes. And I keep citing canon because that's what I do--canon-based textual analysis. But I confess to having got caught up in a couple of the tennis-ball matches. Mea culpa. Should have known the response would be to have my counterarguments snipped and be told "you're wrong." My goodness. I didn't mean to vent, especially when I agree with you that JKR's sole responsibility is to entertain us, not to reinforce our preconceived opinions of what she was going to do. So what if she's inconsistent. Let the person who's written a seven-book series with no plot holes or inconsistencies cast the first stone. She's human, and I wouldn't want to be in her no-doubt expensive shoes right now. What a beating she's taking for not meeting someone else's ideas of perfection! > Alla: > After all people who are dissapointed spent many years as well analysing the books, awaiting with the baited breath how the story ends, I feel it is their right as readers to have their say and I certainly find some things to criticise, BUT am I changing my opinion of the worth of the book as a whole? Carol: Well, you're the List Elf. But I'm as tired of all the bickering as Harry is when Ron and Hermione are fussing about--oops. If you haven't read the book, you'll just have to find out, won't you? > Alla: > Nope, I think it is a fascinating story, with all plot holes and awkwardness in it. Carol: And all those predicitions she "failed" to fulfill. I think future fans will be lucky, actually, because they can read the books in sequence at their own pace without agonizing over what she "has" to do to make DH the book it "should" have been. Sorry about that. Not exactly the touch of levity I was requesting. But my complaint about what's going on at the main list (which isn't what I want it to be, nyah!) should give you some idea of how certain posters are reacting (repeatedly and without canon support) to the book's perceived faults. Carol, feeling a bit hypocritical and promising to lighten up in her next post :-) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 00:54:20 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:54:20 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Julie Borgmann wrote: > > > > Very well put. However after reading DH and being simply a reader when it comes to fiction (why bother to analyze fiction? I just don't see how that could be productive or worthwhile) I discovered a fan based version which definately gave me another avenue to look at as far as resolution. > > > Alla: > > Heeee, because analysing fiction is fun. That's why I do it anyways :) > Carol: And I earned a PhD through doing it. (Good thing Julie wasn't in any of my second-semester freshman composition classes. Analyze "Jane Eyere" and "Tess of the D'Urbervilles"? You're making us do "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"!!!! How can I write a documented argument on that???) Some of us do see analysis as both entertaining and productive. That's why we have the main list. Maybe once the chapter discussions get under way, the list can get back on track. Carol, betting that Alla can guess in a millisecond which chapter discussion I volunteered to lead From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 01:00:05 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 01:00:05 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > And I earned a PhD through doing it. (Good thing Julie wasn't in any > of my second-semester freshman composition classes. Analyze "Jane > Eyere" and "Tess of the D'Urbervilles"? You're making us do "Alice's > Adventures in Wonderland"!!!! Carol: I did, however, spell "Jane Eyre" correctly on the syllabus. Carol, blushing deeply From jlnbtr at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 02:09:47 2007 From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 02:09:47 -0000 Subject: DH in other languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > > > When you've read the Mexican translation, assuming that the > spoiler policy has lifted, maybe you can entertain us with some of > those awful mistakes. Or how about some mistakes from earlier books? I > know I'd be entertained, and I know at least one other poster from > this list who would be, too. (Waves to Mila.) Juli: I've read the books in spanish, there's one HUGE mistake that comes to my mind right now. In OoP when Harry is being updated at 12GP, Sirius says that if the MoM accepts that LV is back then they would have to deal with problems they hadn't dealt in 14 years (paraphrasing from memory). Anyway, the spanish version says cuarenta, that's fourty. If I hadn't read the books in english first I wouldn't have understand, I was thinking of Grindewald! Then, I checked my english book and realized it was 14. Juli - I'll let you know if I come across another mistake From jlnbtr at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 02:19:07 2007 From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 02:19:07 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol, Alla, Steve, I agree with you 100% Here're my two knuts... I loved the book, LOVED IT!!! So what if everything I thought would happen didn't? I'm not JKR, all I did was guess, and I was wrong in many things, does it mean I didn't enjoy the book? No. I enjoyed being wrong. If everything I wanted to happend had happened, what would have been the point of the book? I loved making up theories, some were true, most weren't, but still I had a great time at it. There are still many questions, that's for sure, but that's for us, super-fans, I think the average fan is quite happy. The big questions were answered, there aren't many lose ends. I bet we will find details every now and then from her website or from interviews, but it will never be enough, and that's good. If all questions were answered what would we discuss? Juli From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 04:29:43 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <612969.44327.qm@web60924.mail.yahoo.com> You almost made me get out my red pen and my school year hasn't yet begun! Us historians prefer to debate fact rather than fiction I suppose. Its just my nature. justcarol67 wrote: Carol earlier: > And I earned a PhD through doing it. (Good thing Julie wasn't in any > of my second-semester freshman composition classes. Analyze "Jane > Eyere" and "Tess of the D'Urbervilles"? You're making us do "Alice's > Adventures in Wonderland"!!!! Carol: I did, however, spell "Jane Eyre" correctly on the syllabus. Carol, blushing deeply Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 04:30:48 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:30:48 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Alla: > > After all people who are dissapointed spent many years as well > analysing the books, awaiting with the baited breath how the story > ends, I feel it is their right as readers to have their say and I > certainly find some things to criticise, BUT am I changing my opinion > of the worth of the book as a whole? > > Carol: > Well, you're the List Elf. But I'm as tired of all the bickering as > Harry is when Ron and Hermione are fussing about--oops. If you haven't > read the book, you'll just have to find out, won't you? > > > Alla: > > Nope, I think it is a fascinating story, with all plot holes and > awkwardness in it. > Alla: Cutting pretty much everything else to reiterate one point - I am posting as a **list member** not an elf and stating my position as a list member. And my position would be that everybody has a right to criticise any aspect of the book in **any** tone, as long as this tone is not directed at the other list member. I do not agree with you Carol on that aspect at all. I was talking about **my** positive experiences only. Alla. From zanelupin at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 05:04:45 2007 From: zanelupin at yahoo.com (KathyK) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 05:04:45 -0000 Subject: Admin: Lifting the Spoiler Ban Message-ID: Hi folks, The Deathly Hallows spoiler ban is now lifted. We are employing the same RAYOR (Read At Your Own Risk) policy we have on the Main list. We would like to thank everyone for doing their best to keep OTC spoiler-free for the first few weeks after DH was released. Sorry to those who didn't get a chance to vote in the poll before I closed it. The numbers were the same for several days and there was a clear preference for RAYOR among those who did vote and we wanted to reach a decision for you ASAP. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to email me at zanelupin@ yahoo.com or, if you prefer, all the elves at hpforgrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com). Thank You! KathyK/Zaney Elf, for the List Elves From rkelley at blazingisp.net Wed Aug 8 13:13:37 2007 From: rkelley at blazingisp.net (Ricky & LeAnn) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:13:37 -0500 Subject: Confound it, Storgi! Message-ID: <008a01c7d9bd$f065acb0$3a0ef504@yourat5qgaac3z> Everyone keeps saying that some of us aren't happy with the book because the plots weren't resolved to our liking. First, let me say that I love, love, loved the book, even in its fictionalized, and wildly embroidered account of Harry's life. Second, although it is regrettable, I am not angry that Jo didn't resolve the plots truthfully. She is not to be blamed because the dark wizard Storgi broke into Jo's study while she was working and put a confundus charm on her to prevent her from telling the truth to the muggle world. So, in spite of the story being WONDERFUL, I know in my heart of hearts that Trevor the toad was a transfigured human, Albus Dumbledore still lives, and Stubby Boardman is Regulus Black in disguise. I have this on authority from Rita Skeeter who is writing a new book, _Storgi and the Pillar of Harry Potter_ in which she reveals all. Pass the word along to all who are blaming Jo for a story which didn't end to their liking. I'm sure they'll find all the threads tied up as they expected in Rita's version. Anders From sistermagpie at earthlink.net Wed Aug 8 15:24:45 2007 From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:24:45 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve: > People who blend those two modes, people who are > unable to separate them, are likely the one who were > most disappointed. In their minds, after 2 or 3 years > of constant obsession and analysis, they think they > know what the books should be, and are disappointed > when they are not. Magpie: LOL! Honestly, have you never read a book you didn't like? Did you consider it a failure on your part? Did you scold yourself for wanting something different? Of course not! You can dislike a book for some other reason than you didn't get your pet theory coming true. There are plenty of books I didn't like that I've read without having years of analysis in between, and I talked about why I didn't like them too. Sure there are individuals who are going to be unreasonable or have some quirky thing that keeps them from enjoying something or makes them enjoy something. But I don't see how making up demeaning psychoanalytical reasons why people didn't like a book is any better than them coming up with demeaning reasons that you did like it. Because it isn't any better. -m From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 15:49:59 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:49:59 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Magpie: > LOL! Honestly, have you never read a book you didn't like? Did you > consider it a failure on your part? Did you scold yourself for > wanting something different? > > Of course not! You can dislike a book for some other reason than you > didn't get your pet theory coming true. There are plenty of books I > didn't like that I've read without having years of analysis in > between, and I talked about why I didn't like them too. Sure there > are individuals who are going to be unreasonable or have some quirky > thing that keeps them from enjoying something or makes them enjoy > something. But I don't see how making up demeaning psychoanalytical > reasons why people didn't like a book is any better than them coming > up with demeaning reasons that you did like it. Because it isn't any > better. Alla: Actually, I cannot remember ever disliking the book because I wanted something different and again I am talking about **my** experiences only, nobody else's. Because for me as somebody who analysed the books for years as well as I mentioned what Steve said initially ring true for my experiences as a reader - as in how I was consciously or unconsciously separating my desire to have my theories be true or not. Actually I should phrase first paragraph differently. Of course I read plenty of books where I wanted something different, but as far as I remenber it never entered my mind, to how to put it - to dislike the book on the intellectual level, even if I will not want to reread it again. Again, that is **me**, I believe I have a right to talk about my experiences, just as anybody else has a right to talk about theirs. The good example would be Pullman's "His Dark Materials". I loved the first book and second and hated third and especially ending. But was it my fault for hating the third book? Um, yeah, TOTALLY. I mean, not **fault**, but my views if that make sense. Third book was not any worse written or anything like that, it is just I did not get what I wanted out of it. So, I absolutely think that the books are fantastically written, great story, etc, but I will NOT reread them again. That does not mean that I will ever claim that Pullman is a bad writer, that his story does not flow, etc. It is just he took the story in the direction I disliked immensely, but it is my problem, NOT his. Again, there is no implied comparison with what people who hated seventh book think of Rowling, it is a description of how I think of the books. There are plenty of reasons to dislike the books and they are all **valid** as far as I am concerned. But if I did not get out of story something that I wanted, it is never a reason for me to dislike the story on the intellectual level. Like if Harry would have died, sure, whether it would be well written or not, I would be upset. But if it was well done, I would still respect the books, just not reread them or at least I hope so. Alla. From sistermagpie at earthlink.net Wed Aug 8 16:11:50 2007 From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:11:50 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All: > The good example would be Pullman's "His Dark Materials". I loved the > first book and second and hated third and especially ending. > > But was it my fault for hating the third book? Um, yeah, TOTALLY. I > mean, not **fault**, but my views if that make sense. > > Third book was not any worse written or anything like that, it is > just I did not get what I wanted out of it. > So, I absolutely think that the books are fantastically written, > great story, etc, but I will NOT reread them again. That does not > mean that I will ever claim that Pullman is a bad writer, that his > story does not flow, etc. > > It is just he took the story in the direction I disliked immensely, > but it is my problem, NOT his. > > Again, there is no implied comparison with what people who hated > seventh book think of Rowling, it is a description of how I think of > the books. Magpie: I guess for me I think it would be perfectly valid to also think it was Pullman's problem. I mean, not to the point where he's at fault for not writing any specific story that you wanted, but for instance, I know somebody who got to the end and thought the books were crazy in a similar way as some people feel about the ending of DH. Shehe read what Pullman wrote and said, "I didn't like this and here's why." She had no alternate version she thought he should have written, she just reacted to the story she was given. Likewise, JKR says she didn't like in Narnia how Susan doesn't go to Narnia because she likes nylons and lipsticks. Is that her problem? I don't think so. I mean, CSLewis wrote what he wanted, and JKR disagreed with the idea he put forth about Susan. CS Lewis wasn't wrong to write the books the way he wanted, but I don't think JKR was wrong to say she reacted negatively to Susan's ending and why. (And of course Pullman has his own criticisms of what he doesn't like in Narnia.) For me this is all a normal part of reacting to books and talking about them. (Obviously I don't agree with the poster who thinks there's no point in analyzing fiction--I think there's a very good point!) Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how you're using the phrases "my problem" though--we both agree an author is going to write what he or she wants to write and don't think we're entitled to every book ending the way we like it in any detailed way. -m From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 16:23:50 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:23:50 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Magpie: > I guess for me I think it would be perfectly valid to also think it > was Pullman's problem. I mean, not to the point where he's at fault > for not writing any specific story that you wanted, but for > instance, I know somebody who got to the end and thought the books > were crazy in a similar way as some people feel about the ending of > DH. Shehe read what Pullman wrote and said, "I didn't like this and > here's why." She had no alternate version she thought he should have > written, she just reacted to the story she was given. > > Likewise, JKR says she didn't like in Narnia how Susan doesn't go to > Narnia because she likes nylons and lipsticks. Is that her problem? > I don't think so. I mean, CSLewis wrote what he wanted, and JKR > disagreed with the idea he put forth about Susan. CS Lewis wasn't > wrong to write the books the way he wanted, but I don't think JKR > was wrong to say she reacted negatively to Susan's ending and why. > (And of course Pullman has his own criticisms of what he doesn't > like in Narnia.) For me this is all a normal part of reacting to > books and talking about them. (Obviously I don't agree with the > poster who thinks there's no point in analyzing fiction--I think > there's a very good point!) > > Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how you're using the phrases "my > problem" though--we both agree an author is going to write what he > or she wants to write and don't think we're entitled to every book > ending the way we like it in any detailed way. > > -m > Alla: I did not say it is invalid to think that it is Pullman's problem. I said for me it is not a good reason to criticise the book, does not mean that for everybody else it should not be. I guess for me plot going to the different direction that I wanted OR writer sending the message that can clash with what I would like if RW metaphors are possible, is just not the kind of criticism I would be able to understand. As to any writer, not just JKR. Does not mean that this is the invalid criticism, you know? Like what you said about JKR critique of Narnia. Yeah, I think it is her imposing her expectations as a reader upon the text and not the kind of criticism I would be able to understand. And I am not a fan of Narnia as a whole, like at all. Does it make sense? I am all for engaging my emotions when I read the book, but when I am asked if it is a good book or not, if I was not happy with the plot development or messages that writer sends, I will mention that of course, but that is never my criteria to decide whether this book is good or not. Like every time I read *War and Peace* I am angry at Tolstoy that prince Andrew dies and that doofus Pier gets the girl. It never enters my mind to say that because of that the book is bad. I mean, with War and Peace it is a little different for me, because I found plenty of satisfaction on emotional level too, just not on that point. Alla. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 16:33:52 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:33:52 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy/ His Dark Materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" wrote: > > All: > > The good example would be Pullman's "His Dark Materials". I loved > the > > first book and second and hated third and especially ending. > > > > But was it my fault for hating the third book? Um, yeah, TOTALLY. > I > > mean, not **fault**, but my views if that make sense. > > > > Third book was not any worse written or anything like that, it is > > just I did not get what I wanted out of it. > > > > So, I absolutely think that the books are fantastically written, > > great story, etc, but I will NOT reread them again. That does not > > mean that I will ever claim that Pullman is a bad writer, that his > > story does not flow, etc. > > > > It is just he took the story in the direction I disliked > immensely, > > but it is my problem, NOT his. > > > > Again, there is no implied comparison with what people who hated > > seventh book think of Rowling, it is a description of how I think > of > > the books. > > Magpie: > I guess for me I think it would be perfectly valid to also think it > was Pullman's problem. I mean, not to the point where he's at fault > for not writing any specific story that you wanted, but for > instance, I know somebody who got to the end and thought the books > were crazy in a similar way as some people feel about the ending of > DH. Shehe read what Pullman wrote and said, "I didn't like this and > here's why." She had no alternate version she thought he should have > written, she just reacted to the story she was given. > Alla: Okay, Alla think first press send later. Oh well. So, Pullman. I did not have alternative version either, or maybe I did in a sense that I wanted ending to have some hope, you know? I think it is me imposing my expectations on the text and Pullman as we agree just wanting to say something different. Like I know people who had some problems with Lira's character in book 3. I did not, but I think the critique of those people was actually easier for me to understand and to accept, you know? That the character changes did not work for them, etc. Alla. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 18:23:47 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:23:47 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "sistermagpie" wrote: > > Steve: > > People who blend those two modes, people who are > > unable to separate them, are likely the one who were > > most disappointed. In their minds, after 2 or 3 years > > of constant obsession and analysis, they think they > > know what the books should be, and are disappointed > > when they are not. > > Magpie: > LOL! Honestly, have you never read a book you didn't > like? Did you consider it a failure on your part? Did > you scold yourself for wanting something different? > > Of course not! You can dislike a book for some other > reason than you didn't get your pet theory coming > true. ... bboyminn: Of course, there are books I simply don't like. I didn't like Lord of the Rings. I found it meandering, confusing, dull, and slow. But there is quite a difference between not liking a book in a broad and general context, and picking nit with a fiery vehement vitriol. For example, one person compared the Houses to the Nazis and the Jews, only Gryffindors were the Nazis and Slytherins were the Jews. [Acknowledging that I am removing this statement from its context.] Oh really? Nasty evil vile Gryffindors are the Nazis and poor sweet innocent Slytherins are the Jew? Apparently, the other Houses conspired to put upon and oppress the poor innocent Slytherins. It is one thing to be disappointed that Slytherins didn't play a larger part, or that their 'some degree' of redemption wasn't made more clear. But to go to the extreme of paint Slytherin as poor victims, and the other Houses as oppressors is slightly beyond the pale for me. Slytherin, themselves, by their own behavior, created the animosity that is felt by the other Houses. If Slytherin want to fix that, then they have to behave in a way that reduces the animosity. It is not up to the other Houses to change their attitude toward Slytherin, it is up to Slytherin to /behave in a way/ the changes the attitudes of the other Houses. Again, that is an example of someone who is so emotionally invested in a subplot that doesn't advance the story that they have become slightly irrational. Again, I readily acknowledge that I have removed the statement from the context, so it really stands more as an illustration than an example. This was a long and detail discussion, so I admit there may have been some valid context for the comparison. So, apologies to the person who posted this idea; again, it serves as an illustration, not as an example. In fact, there is a thread that does exactly as you suggest. This person simply says... 'eh... the books simply didn't do it for me'. I don't agree with that but they didn't like it, so they didn't like it; that's life. Even if I can't understand it, I can easily accept that this person simply didn't like the book. But that is quite different from being vehemently incensed over some minor point, or because your favorite plot line wasn't resolved the way you wanted. Annoyed-OK, but vehemently incensed is over the top. I still say that a lot of the negative criticism is because of unfulfilled expectations, and not an actual failing of the book itself or by the author. Fearing a firestorm for my 'Nazi' illustration. Steve/bboyminn From sistermagpie at earthlink.net Wed Aug 8 19:19:09 2007 From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:19:09 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > bboyminn: > > Of course, there are books I simply don't like. I didn't > like Lord of the Rings. I found it meandering, confusing, > dull, and slow. But there is quite a difference between > not liking a book in a broad and general context, and > picking nit with a fiery vehement vitriol. Magpie: You hated LOTR because it was slow, but if you hate a book because you thought it said something ugly you tend to sound more passionate about it because you're disagreeing with the idea. Especially if the book is still fresh in your mind. I've ranted far more about books I probably barely remember now than I have about DH, which is in a universe I had put more effort into to begin with. bboyminn: > For example, one person compared the Houses to the Nazis > and the Jews, only Gryffindors were the Nazis and > Slytherins were the Jews. [Acknowledging that I am > removing this statement from its context.] Oh really? > Nasty evil vile Gryffindors are the Nazis and poor > sweet innocent Slytherins are the Jew? Apparently, the > other Houses conspired to put upon and oppress the poor > innocent Slytherins. > > It is one thing to be disappointed that Slytherins didn't > play a larger part, or that their 'some degree' of > redemption wasn't made more clear. But to go to the > extreme of paint Slytherin as poor victims, and the other > Houses as oppressors is slightly beyond the pale for me. Magpie: No, she did not do that. That's a total distortion of what she said-- and tried to re-explain a number of times that she was *not* saying that the Gryffindors were the Nazis and Slytherins were the Jews. She also acknowledged all the explicit parallels in the text to the Slytherins being Nazis and Muggle-borns being Jews. I thought in context she made herself clear, but apparently the concept just could not be gotten across, and she regretted trying to even explain it. Okay, she didn't get her point across, but don't put words in her mouth and say she was claiming the Nazi Gryffindors were persecuting the Jewish Slytherins. If you really thought she was painting the Slytherins as victims in that way, rest assured that is not what she said. bboyminn: > > Slytherin, themselves, by their own behavior, created > the animosity that is felt by the other Houses. If > Slytherin want to fix that, then they have to behave in > a way that reduces the animosity. It is not up to > the other Houses to change their attitude toward > Slytherin, it is up to Slytherin to /behave in a way/ > the changes the attitudes of the other Houses. Magpie: Yes, and that's actually what she said--she did not compare them to actual Jewish people. She agreed that Slytherins by their own behavior created the animosity. The animosity was deserved and Slytherin lived down to everyone's expectations. bboyminn: > > Again, that is an example of someone who is so > emotionally invested in a subplot that doesn't advance > the story that they have become slightly irrational. Magpie: No, just an example of someone trying to say something and being completely misunderstood in ways that offended people, I think. bboyminn: > > Again, I readily acknowledge that I have removed the > statement from the context, so it really stands more > as an illustration than an example. This was a long > and detail discussion, so I admit there may have been > some valid context for the comparison. So, apologies > to the person who posted this idea; again, it serves > as an illustration, not as an example. Magpie: I'm afraid I don't understand what it stands as an example of. She was discussing how uncomfortable she felt reading a story that worked out the way this one did and tried to explain why having a group that was "othered" this way wasn't a pleasant read for her. I don't see what the big deal is. If books leave you with an unpleasant feeling you described what you found so unpleasant about it. She wasn't the only one who came away with that unpleasant feeling. I don't find it irrational (it was closer to my own response)--I think it's actually trying to understand one's own negative response to a book and explain it to others. bboyminn: > > In fact, there is a thread that does exactly as you > suggest. This person simply says... 'eh... the books > simply didn't do it for me'. I don't agree with that > but they didn't like it, so they didn't like it; that's > life. Even if I can't understand it, I can easily > accept that this person simply didn't like the book. > > But that is quite different from being vehemently > incensed over some minor point, or because your > favorite plot line wasn't resolved the way you > wanted. Annoyed-OK, but vehemently incensed is over > the top. Magpie: Isn't that what we do in fandom, nit-pick over different points? I've ignored tons of threads that nitpicked over the years trying to cover plot-holes I didn't need covered. (For instance, I don't mind how the letter got to Sirius' place, but it seems like an expected fandom thing to argue about how it doesn't work.) I mean, it seems to me that it also might be that the person who's saying "eh, it didn't do it for me" is okay because they're not challenging anybody else. A person who hated the book might be equally okay with a thread saying, "I really liked it!" but be more likely to engage with somebody saying "The book was brilliant and here's why..." That's when you tend to get into back and forth arguments. -m From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 19:51:33 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:51:33 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > bboyminn: > > > > In fact, there is a thread that does exactly as you > > suggest. This person simply says... 'eh... the books > > simply didn't do it for me'. I don't agree with that > > but they didn't like it, so they didn't like it; that's > > life. Even if I can't understand it, I can easily > > accept that this person simply didn't like the book. > > > > But that is quite different from being vehemently > > incensed over some minor point, or because your > > favorite plot line wasn't resolved the way you > > wanted. Annoyed-OK, but vehemently incensed is over > > the top. > > Magpie: > Isn't that what we do in fandom, nit-pick over different points? > I've ignored tons of threads that nitpicked over the years trying to > cover plot-holes I didn't need covered. (For instance, I don't mind > how the letter got to Sirius' place, but it seems like an expected > fandom thing to argue about how it doesn't work.) I mean, it seems > to me that it also might be that the person who's saying "eh, it > didn't do it for me" is okay because they're not challenging anybody > else. A person who hated the book might be equally okay with a > thread saying, "I really liked it!" but be more likely to engage > with somebody saying "The book was brilliant and here's why..." > That's when you tend to get into back and forth arguments. Alla: Right on this point I agree with Magpie. I mean, Steve does it matter whether criticism is on small points or major ones? We do nitpick all the time and like for example if we were on LOTR discussion group, you bet I would ask you to explain in more details what did you find so dull and confusing about LOTR. :) From anopcfox1 at verizon.net Wed Aug 8 19:38:50 2007 From: anopcfox1 at verizon.net (anopcfox) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:38:50 -0000 Subject: You are not going to believe this! Message-ID: I attended a local church during my vacation, and while there heard the name of a family that recently became members. Want to know the name of the family? Scroll down > > > > > > > > The TOM RIDDLE Family I am told he is taking it all well. No, I am not joking--I have met him at the church before. anopcfox From n2fgc at arrl.net Wed Aug 8 20:35:54 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:35:54 -0400 Subject: Sit Back And Breathe (was Re: The Agony and the Ecstacy) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JMH00IWZ2K2N970@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Okay, I'm putting my two knuts in here. IMHO, it's a book; for some it was a good book, for some it was not; for some everything worked out fine, for some there were disappointments and some may have been disgusted. But, in the scheme of all things, it's a book...the end of a series of books...the culmination of an author's efforts to tell the story she wanted to tell. And it's hard work to write even one book, let alone seven in series. Those of you who write fanfic can no doubt agree with me, especially because you are writing other people's characters and not your own, and creating characters that successfully blend in with the established ones can be awfully challenging...been there, done that...it's a challenge. There will be those of us who will analyze it to the endth degree and nit-pick every possible nuance and seek things where none exist. There are those of us who will probably analyze the story as a whole and how it completes the series as a whole, who will maybe have a niggling question or two but are generally satisfied and will go back to read the whole series now that we have all the pieces of the puzzle. There are those of us who could care less about analysis and just want a really good read. And, whichever category you find yourself in, it's okay; there are other folk in that category, too. But it's really important, IMHO, to respect those who are in different categories, appreciate the differences and, possibly, see something you didn't see before. Maybe some might think I'm weird, but as much as I love the HP books, as much as I might love any book or series, I can't get so emotionally tied up that I'm consumed by them. Sure, I love being in costume, feeling a part of something neat and different, escaping from reality for a bit, and I'm not beyond analyzing the details to some degree. But I have my fun and move on to something else, be it another book or series or something in RL which requires my attention. If some of the energy used to debate, argue and/or vehemently fight for our points and positions on the list could be harnessed to get kids off the streets and out of gangs, interest them in reading and furthering their lives, and other positive things, this world would be a "magical" place. I'll probably have my ears closed in the oven door and other dire things, but that's okay. I just want to see people agree to disagree respectfully and move on to some constructive topics...like, do you think you could be as good a scout as Hermione and have everything so well organized for a rapid departure? :-) Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 21:18:23 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:18:23 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "dumbledore11214" wrote: > > > bboyminn: > >> > >> ... > >> > >> But that is quite different from being vehemently > >> incensed over some minor point, or because your > >> favorite plot line wasn't resolved the way you > >> wanted. Annoyed-OK, but vehemently incensed is over > >> the top. > > > > Magpie: > > Isn't that what we do in fandom, nit-pick over > > different points? I've ignored tons of threads that > > nitpicked over the years trying to cover plot-holes > > I didn't need covered. ... > > > Alla: > > Right, on this point I agree with Magpie. I mean, > Steve does it matter whether criticism is on small points or major ones? > > We do nitpick all the time and like for example if > we were on LOTR discussion group, you bet I would > ask you to explain in more details what did you > find so dull and confusing about LOTR. :) > bboyminn: You've both either missed or ignored my point, though you have made some other points that are valid. I never said, you couldn't or shouldn't criticize points; major or minor. I said, when a person becomes so /vehmently incense/ as to border on irrational, it's time to dial it back a notch or two. When Harry is being vilified and Slytherins are being cannonized; I THINK the discussion has gone too far. I further acknowledge that exaggeration was a common way of making a point stand out. You do it, I do it, we all do it. But there is a limit to how much you can exaggerate something before it become unresonably extreme. As to my ILLUSTRATION, it is not an example of anything; a point a clearly and repeatedly made. It is an isolated removed-from-context illustration of a point I was trying to make, and I noted the removal from context several times. But like it or not this person literally said '...Gryffindor are Nazis...' and '...Sltherins are Jews...'. As a stand alone statement that is pretty extreme. But I also acknowledge this was part of a larger discussion and that some context might have existed for the comparison. Further, in what I assume is that same discussion, or at least on that same topic, I thought a recent exchange between Magpie and Sydney was very well reasoned, and found it a fascinating exchange, even though I disagreed with parts of it. It was the moderating of overblown rhetoric that made it a brilliant well-reasoned discussion. So, it is not discussion that I am trying to squelch, it is the 'overblown rhetoric'. But then that's just my opinion. Steve/bboyminn From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 22:06:16 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sit Back And Breathe (was Re: The Agony and the Ecstacy) In-Reply-To: <0JMH00IWZ2K2N970@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <348925.19999.qm@web60911.mail.yahoo.com> I could be like Hermoine only with magical help!!! And dang it I wish I were! "Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force" wrote: Okay, I'm putting my two knuts in here. IMHO, it's a book; for some it was a good book, for some it was not; for some everything worked out fine, for some there were disappointments and some may have been disgusted. But, in the scheme of all things, it's a book...the end of a series of books...the culmination of an author's efforts to tell the story she wanted to tell. And it's hard work to write even one book, let alone seven in series. Those of you who write fanfic can no doubt agree with me, especially because you are writing other people's characters and not your own, and creating characters that successfully blend in with the established ones can be awfully challenging...been there, done that...it's a challenge. There will be those of us who will analyze it to the endth degree and nit-pick every possible nuance and seek things where none exist. There are those of us who will probably analyze the story as a whole and how it completes the series as a whole, who will maybe have a niggling question or two but are generally satisfied and will go back to read the whole series now that we have all the pieces of the puzzle. There are those of us who could care less about analysis and just want a really good read. And, whichever category you find yourself in, it's okay; there are other folk in that category, too. But it's really important, IMHO, to respect those who are in different categories, appreciate the differences and, possibly, see something you didn't see before. Maybe some might think I'm weird, but as much as I love the HP books, as much as I might love any book or series, I can't get so emotionally tied up that I'm consumed by them. Sure, I love being in costume, feeling a part of something neat and different, escaping from reality for a bit, and I'm not beyond analyzing the details to some degree. But I have my fun and move on to something else, be it another book or series or something in RL which requires my attention. If some of the energy used to debate, argue and/or vehemently fight for our points and positions on the list could be harnessed to get kids off the streets and out of gangs, interest them in reading and furthering their lives, and other positive things, this world would be a "magical" place. I'll probably have my ears closed in the oven door and other dire things, but that's okay. I just want to see people agree to disagree respectfully and move on to some constructive topics...like, do you think you could be as good a scout as Hermione and have everything so well organized for a rapid departure? :-) Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 01:05:17 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:05:17 -0000 Subject: Admin: Lifting the Spoiler Ban In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi folks, > > The Deathly Hallows spoiler ban is now lifted. We are employing the > same RAYOR (Read At Your Own Risk) policy we have on the Main list. > > We would like to thank everyone for doing their best to keep OTC > spoiler-free for the first few weeks after DH was released. > > > KathyK/Zaney Elf, for the List Elves > Carol responds: Only one question, which I'd like to have answered onlist as I think others share it. Do we need to use spoiler space and (Spoiler) in the subject line or can we safely assume that others have read the books? Carol, wanting to get it right the first time without stepping on any toes From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 01:09:28 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:09:28 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alla: > > Cutting pretty much everything else to reiterate one point - I am posting as a **list member** not an elf and stating my position as a list member. > > And my position would be that everybody has a right to criticise any aspect of the book in **any** tone, as long as this tone is not directed at the other list member. > > I do not agree with you Carol on that aspect at all. > > I was talking about **my** positive experiences only. Carol responding: Sorry, Alla. I was agreeing with your reactions to the book and expressing *my own* views about the rancor on the main list. I didn't mean to imply that you shared my views on that, nor did I intend any offense with the List Elf reference. My apologies. Carol, who prefers butterbeer to sour grapes and just wants people to lighten up a little From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 01:21:16 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:21:16 -0000 Subject: You are not going to believe this! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anopcfox" wrote: > > I attended a local church during my vacation, and while there heard > the name of a family that recently became members. Want to know the > name of the family? > > Scroll down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The TOM RIDDLE Family > > I am told he is taking it all well. > > No, I am not joking--I have met him at the church before. > > anopcfox > Carol: Let me know if you meet Severus Snape. BTW, I once knew a man named Tom Collins whose girlfriend wouldn't marry him unless he took her last name because she associated his name with a cocktail. If he's shared a name with a diabolical villain, she probably wouldn't have married him at all. (This incident happened before the Potter books came out and they've since divorced--wonder why.) Carol, thinking that your acquaintance would have changed his name years ago if he were bothered by it From stacygalore at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 03:23:15 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:23:15 -0000 Subject: Afraid to sleep with the lights off. Message-ID: After reading chapter 17 of DH, I was too afraid to sleep with the lights off. For some reason, after reading this, I had a vivid image of this in my head, and it greatly disturbed me. That image of Nagini emerging from Bathilda Bagshot's dead body is so deliciously horrific! There is also something so freaky about an old lady with cloudy eyes who doesn't speak . . . and even more freaky that "she" later speaks in parseltongue. Anybody else feel this way? What was your sleep-with-the-lights-on moment in any of the HP books? Stacy Galore Grew up reading Stephen King, and loving the horror elements of HP From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 03:48:14 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:48:14 -0000 Subject: Admin: Lifting the Spoiler Ban In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > Only one question, which I'd like to have answered onlist as I think > others share it. > Do we need to use spoiler space and (Spoiler) in the subject line or > can we safely assume that others have read the books Goddlefrood: No, the policy is now the same as on main. OK? From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 04:09:31 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Afraid to sleep with the lights off. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <878086.88596.qm@web60919.mail.yahoo.com> No but I found many moments when I had to put the book down and walk away in order to avoid such things. I found this book much more intense and perhaps it was my fear of losing one of my beloved characters that added some intensity. Overall DH was my longest read due to my need for breaks1 stacygalore wrote: After reading chapter 17 of DH, I was too afraid to sleep with the lights off. For some reason, after reading this, I had a vivid image of this in my head, and it greatly disturbed me. That image of Nagini emerging from Bathilda Bagshot's dead body is so deliciously horrific! There is also something so freaky about an old lady with cloudy eyes who doesn't speak . . . and even more freaky that "she" later speaks in parseltongue. Anybody else feel this way? What was your sleep-with-the-lights-on moment in any of the HP books? Stacy Galore Grew up reading Stephen King, and loving the horror elements of HP Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Thu Aug 9 07:01:53 2007 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:01:53 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C9A86A4CD12B2A-998-F15@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Steve: I still say that a lot of the negative criticism is because of unfulfilled expectations, and not an actual failing of the book itself or by the author. Sandy: I only had three expectations for this book: 1. Voldemort would be defeated 2. Harry would live 3. Harry and Ginny would reunite All three of these expectations were met, yet I have a great deal of negative criticism for the book. The world, and the characters in it, that I thought I knew so well were turned inside-out and upside-down to the point that I no longer know who's on first. She introduced plots and theories that, even after a second read, I still don't understand, and not understanding makes me feel stupid and I don't like that. She has made so many statements prior to the release of the book that turned out to be false, or that she managed to find a way to worm around. One example: Even in the wizarding world people don't come back from the dead, but then we get King' Cross. I felt like I was watching Dallas again. For many it is a matter of unfulfilled expectations. That is not the case for me. Sandy ?? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From taguem at jmsearch.com Thu Aug 9 13:38:51 2007 From: taguem at jmsearch.com (Michelle Tague) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:38:51 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Afraid to sleep with the lights off. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That was it for me? it reminded me of the scene in Salem?s Lot with the white eyes of the vampires coming out of the cellar? *SHUDDERS with a fright!* oh that scene just got me for years? Have a great day! Michelle Tague Office Manager JM & Company 1045 First Avenue, Ste. 110 King of Prussia, PA 19406 (610) 964-0200 (610) 964-8596 fax HYPERLINK "http://www.jmsearch.com"www.jmsearch.com (484) 367-7223 direct _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stacygalore Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:23 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Afraid to sleep with the lights off. After reading chapter 17 of DH, I was too afraid to sleep with the lights off. For some reason, after reading this, I had a vivid image of this in my head, and it greatly disturbed me. That image of Nagini emerging from Bathilda Bagshot's dead body is so deliciously horrific! There is also something so freaky about an old lady with cloudy eyes who doesn't speak . . . and even more freaky that "she" later speaks in parseltongue. Anybody else feel this way? What was your sleep-with-the--lights-on moment in any of the HP books? Stacy Galore Grew up reading Stephen King, and loving the horror elements of HP No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.10/943 - Release Date: 8/8/2007 5:38 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Aug 9 16:54:00 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:54:00 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: <8C9A86A4CD12B2A-998-F15@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0JMI00JURMY80R31@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> [Sandy]: (Re JKR) | She | has made so many statements prior to the release of the book | that turned out to be false, or that she managed to find a | way to worm around. One example: Even in the wizarding world | people don't come back from the dead, but then we get King' | Cross. I felt like I was watching Dallas again. [Lee]: The way I see it, she may have made a lot of statements, but I feel that she was trying to keep her readers off the track and guessing. If I were an author, I would hesitate to give truthful statements about what's going to happen in my upcoming material because, IMO, I would be giving it away and I would feel that, if the readers have answers to their questions, why bother writing the book...it's already been told, so to speak. This is, of course, just my opinion. As far as the Kings Cross, no dead people were brought back; remember that Dumbledore inferred that it was indeed in Harry's head. We don't know what goes through the minds of coma victims or some of those having Near-Death experiences, but in these things they're given the choice to live in this world or go on. So, what Harry was experiencing in his Kings Cross thing was that "Between-Place" as I call it. Again, no one was brought back from the dead, as I read it. Smiles, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 18:26:24 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:26:24 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate Message-ID: Were any other non-British readers confused by "kissing gate"? I found a detailed definition, complete with a photo, which I found very helpful at answers.com: http://www.answers.com/topic/kissing-gate In short, a kissing gate is "a type of gate mostly used between fields which allows people to cross but prevents animals from crossing." According to the little article, "The normal construction is a half round or rectangular or trapezial [sic for "trapezoidal"] or V-shaped enclosure with a hinged gate which can be pushed against the enclosure in either direction. When the gate is parked at either end of the enclosure, there is no gap to pass through. However, the gate can be pushed open so that a gap is made between the gate and the enclosure wall allowing people to pass through." The article provides a folk etymology followed by a guess at the actual etymology: "Some say that the name 'kissing gate' derives from the custom and practice of the first person through the gate demanding a kiss from the following person in order to be allowed through. Sadly it is more likely to be a reference to the touching of the parts when opened fully either way, a function commonly referred to in engineering as 'kissing'." At any rate, I had no idea what a kissing gate was and thought it was ironic that Harry and Hermione, whom JKR is at pains to show are like a sister and brother and not interested in each other romantically, have to pass through one. The photograph was more helpful than anything else in clarifying the concept. Carol, who has never seen a kissing gate in the U.S. and never encountered the term before DH From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 18:48:41 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:48:41 -0000 Subject: Admin: Lifting the Spoiler Ban In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > > Only one question, which I'd like to have answered onlist as I think others share it. > > > Do we need to use spoiler space and (Spoiler) in the subject line or can we safely assume that others have read the books? > > Goddlefrood: > > No, the policy is now the same as on main. > > OK? > Carol: Yes. Thank you! Expect spoilers galore in any future post from me. C. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 18:51:54 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:51:54 -0000 Subject: Afraid to sleep with the lights off. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: stacygalore wrote: > > After reading chapter 17 of DH, I was too afraid to sleep with the lights off. For some reason, after reading this, I had a vivid image of this in my head, and it greatly disturbed me. That image of Nagini emerging from Bathilda Bagshot's dead body is so deliciously horrific! There is also something so freaky about an old lady with cloudy eyes who doesn't speak . . . and even more freaky that "she" later speaks in parseltongue. Anybody else feel this way? What > was your sleep-with-the-lights-on moment in any of the HP books? > > Stacy Galore > Grew up reading Stephen King, and loving the horror elements of HP > Carol: I know that we don't need to use spoiler space now, but just in case, there's more to come in my response. Enter, poster, but take heed Of what awaits you when you read. I wasn't afraid to sleep with the lights off, but that moment was definitely the most horrific in the book for me and left me with a hatred and loathing of Nagini that I never felt for Voldemort himself. (not that I have any liking for Voldemort, but except for what he did to Snape, I never felt the horror or terror that he's supposed to inspire. But Nagini!Bathilda made me jump out of my skin and scream. Imagine that moment on screen for people who haven't read the book! BTW, Nagini is a "she"--Voldemort's mother substitute whose venom helps to provide him with a fetal form and serves as the "milk" that sustains him until Wormtail provides the resurrection potion with its flesh of a servant, blood of an enemy, and bone of the father. JKR may not be able to count, but she has a vivid imagination that rivals Stephen King's and the power to render what she imagines in words that horrify or terrify the reader--or, at least, this reader. If she wanted me to think that Horcruxes, especially the locket and Nagini, were indeed Dark magic, she succeeded admirably. I hate Nagini. I hated her even before she killed Snape (on the orders of his actual murderer, Voldemort). She may be a snake and not a human being, but she's pure evil (in contrast to that poor boa constrictor in SS/PS). Carol, who punched the air and cheered when brave Neville chopped off the monster's head From jnferr at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 18:42:28 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:42:28 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Kissing gate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708091142x487ab023kf532f4aaa91cf810@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/07, justcarol67 wrote: > > Were any other non-British readers confused by "kissing gate"? I found > a detailed definition, complete with a photo, which I found very > helpful at answers.com: > > http://www.answers.com/topic/kissing-gate montims: I'm more used to the wooden version as shown in http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk/footpaths.html - that is what I had in mind when I read that passage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kkersey at swbell.net Thu Aug 9 18:57:03 2007 From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:57:03 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: justcarol67" wrote: > > Were any other non-British readers confused by "kissing gate"? I found > a detailed definition, complete with a photo, which I found very > helpful at answers.com: > > http://www.answers.com/topic/kissing-gate > Aha! Carol, thank you! I wasn't familiar with the term and thought maybe it was a gate short enough to give a kiss over (like the kind often found in front of houses). But the real thing is much more interesting - JKR put it at the entrance to the Graveyard. IMO it forshadows the King's Cross chapter, where Hary is in a transition point *between* life and death (my own reading, and as JKR interpreted it in the post DH interview or webchat). Take a look at the picture in the link above; as a person passes through the gate they find themselves in a sort of enclosure that is neither on one side nor the other (especially when the gate is in mid-swing). That detail makes so much sense now. I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not HH have a "kissing" relationship. Elisabet From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 19:04:34 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:04:34 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: <8C9A86A4CD12B2A-998-F15@webmail-dd06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Sandy wrote: > > I only had three expectations for this book: > 1. Voldemort would be defeated > 2. Harry would live > 3. Harry and Ginny would reunite > > All three of these expectations were met, yet I have a great deal of negative criticism for the book. The world, and the characters in it, that I thought I knew so well were turned inside-out and upside-down to the point that I no longer know who's on first. She introduced plots and theories that, even after a second read, I still don't understand, and not understanding makes me feel stupid and I don't like that. She has made so many statements prior to the release of the book that turned out to be false, or that she managed to find a way to worm around. One example: Even in the wizarding world people don't come back from the dead, but then we get King' Cross. I felt like I was watching Dallas again. > > For many it is a matter of unfulfilled expectations. That is not the case for me. > > Sandy > Carol responds: If it helps, Dumbledore didn't come back from the dead. He's not in the world of the living. it's the other way around. Harry has, in essence, gone beyond the Veil but he can't die as long as Voldemort has a remaining Horcrux. So it's a near-death experience in which DD is dead (and healed of the curse on his hand as an indication that the afterlife is a better place than our world) but Harry is still alive. He can "go on" to join his loved ones if he chooses or he can return and face Voldemort a second time. Harry learns, among other things, that death is not to be feared unless you're evil and unrepentant. He sees what the eternal state of Voldemort's mangled soul will be unless he experiences remorse, which, of course, he doesn't. JKR did, however, contradict herself in places, for example stating that Grindelwald died in 1945, but maybe the final scene between Grindelwald and Voldemort wasn't part of her original plan. (I wonder, BTW, whether Grindelwald's last act of defying Voldemort gives him some chance for redemption or at least a fate less horrible than Voldemort's.) Carol, wishing that JKR had been less willing to consent to chats and off-the-cuff interviews but trying to judge the book on its own terms From jeopardy18 at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 02:41:49 2007 From: jeopardy18 at comcast.net (seanmulligan2000) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:41:49 -0000 Subject: Age statement Message-ID: Does anyone here know how to put an age statement on my yahoo profile? From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 02:44:37 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:44:37 -0000 Subject: Of human errors Message-ID: Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable of error. I can't remember exactly how old her youngest children are now, but I believe that Mackenzie (sp?) is about a year old and David about two, and she also has an older daughter, Jessica, about ten (?), as well as a husband and the usual family obligations like paying bills and so forth. All that plus the pressures of being a celebrity and producing a much-anticipated work on a deadline. Really, we shouldn't be surprised that it's flawed. We should be surprised that it moved (some of) us so profoundly and that we are still so caught up in her world. Carol, pleading a Confundus Charm (actually distraction) for her stupid blunder and publicly apologizing to Hickengruendler for misreading his(?) post From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 03:59:06 2007 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DH as wedding favor - broken spines? In-Reply-To: <8C9A6BC2380F324-F44-8A2D@webmail-de16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <843605.28442.qm@web52404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My copy of "The Half-Blood Prince" broke within days of starting it. DH is holding up well, but I havent re-read it yet. Alex Hogan OctobersChild48 at aol.com wrote: Petra: Has anyone heard of problems with the bindings on some of the US hardbacks of DH? I know my copy is fine but it would seem the quality control on some batches are not up to par. Sandy: We sell the book where I work. None have been returned because of problems with the spines, but several have been returned because they are missing 30 pages at the end of the book. That must have been a real bite. No one I know personally has had any problems with their books but there are defective ones out there. Sandy . __________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Fri Aug 10 04:17:50 2007 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:17:50 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Of human errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> Carol: Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable of error. I can't remember exactly how old her youngest children are now, but I believe that Mackenzie (sp?) is about a year old and David about two, and she also has an older daughter, Jessica, about ten (?), as well as a husband and the usual family obligations like paying bills and so forth. All that plus the pressures of being a celebrity and producing a much-anticipated work on a deadline. Really, we shouldn't be surprised that it's flawed. Sandy: It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since when is having family responsibilities a free pass for doing a crappy job? My company's policy is: You leave your personal problems and life at the door when you walk in. I have family responsibilities and have to pay the bills, and with very little money I might add, but that does not give me a free pass at work. I make a mistake I face disciplinary action for it, and they don't care what my personal problems are. She chose to get married and have a family, and she chose her career. If she can't handle both she needs to give one of them up. What makes it all so different for her? Grrrrr. And, btw, Mackenzie is almost 3, David is 5 and Jessica just turned 14 last month. Sandy, who cuts JKR no slack because she has "obligations" family or otherwise. - ? . ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 06:01:06 2007 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:01:06 -0000 Subject: Way Off Topic: Johnny Depp as Barnabas Collins! Message-ID: Oh My God! Johnny Depp is going to play Barnabas Collins in the "Dark Shadows" movie! I grew up watching that soap, and he will be perfect! Any other fans of DS out there? My little friends and I used to fight over who got to be Barnabas when we were running around in our neighborhood at night playing vampire. Ahhh...the innocent days when kids could do that. (Run around the neighborhood at night by ourselves, not play vampire! ;/ ) Alex Hogan From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 05:59:48 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:59:48 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > > Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable of error. > > Really, we shouldn't be surprised that it's flawed. > > Sandy: > It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since when is having family responsibilities a free pass for doing a crappy job? My company's policy is: You leave your personal problems and life at the door when you walk in. I have family responsibilities and have to pay the bills, and with very little money I might add, but that does not give me a free pass at work. I make a mistake I face disciplinary action for it, and they don't care what my personal problems are. She chose to get married and have a family, and she chose her career. If she can't handle both she needs to give one of them up. What makes it all so different for her? Grrrrr. And, btw, Mackenzie is almost 3, David is 5 and Jessica just turned 14 last month. > > Sandy, who cuts JKR no slack because she has "obligations" family or otherwise. Carol responds: Not exactly the response I expected to my apology for my own onlist blunder! BTW, I know from experience that three- and five-year-olds are no easier to care for than babies, and fourteen is a difficult age. I wasn't making excuses for JKR, I was empathizing with her human capacity for error, which I share. Carol, not knowing what to say but thinking that I'll keep my apologies offlist in future From lwilliams15209 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 06:45:41 2007 From: lwilliams15209 at yahoo.com (lwilliams15209) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:45:41 -0000 Subject: Way Off Topic: Johnny Depp as Barnabas Collins! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Alex Hogan" wrote: > > Oh My God! Johnny Depp is going to play Barnabas Collins in the "Dark > Shadows" movie! I grew up watching that soap, and he will be perfect! > Any other fans of DS out there? Really? I love Dark Shadows! I hadn't known there was a film version coming out. I agree that Johnny Depp will do a wonderful job as Barnabas Collins. I can't wait to see it. Linda From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 07:46:54 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:46:54 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Elisabet: > But the real thing is much more interesting - JKR put it at the > entrance to the Graveyard. IMO it forshadows the King's Cross > chapter, where Harry is in a transition point *between* life and > death (my own reading, and as JKR interpreted it in the post DH > interview or webchat). > > Take a look at the picture in the link above; as a person passes > through the gate they find themselves in a sort of enclosure that > is neither on one side nor the other (especially when the gate is > in mid-swing). Goddlefrood: Bear in mind that kissing gates were, and in some places still are, a common feature of an entrance into a graveyard. In my grandparents 'village there was one, as indeed there were and are several around the west country of England where both Godric's Hollow and the Forest of Dean are located. I'm all for reading more into the Potter books than is there but in this instance I think it's just a common graveyard accoutrement. For anyone who has not seen the picturtes supplied in this thread, or might be unable to see them, a kissing gate is typically a wooden structure with two upright structures meeting in a v shape. >From the middle of the v shape there is then a further upright structure with a gate affixed to it on hinges. To enter one pushes the gate away, steps into the gap, and then swings the gate so that one can exit from the other side. At no time have any such kissing gates felt to me like I was in any kind of enclosure, but then that may just be me. Hopefully this description might help, I do recognise it could not. Goddlefrood From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 07:57:15 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:57:15 -0000 Subject: Age statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "seanmulligan2000" wrote: > Does anyone here know how to put an age statement on my yahoo profile? Goddlefrood: Yes, open your profile page and towards the top you will see: Home | View My Profiles | Edit Profile Information | Edit Picture | Edit Voice Click on "Edit Profile Information". There is a field in the resulting window to fill in pretty much whatever you want. Towards the bottom there is a funcrtion to have your profile available to adults only, check the box if you want to be shown only to those certifying themselves to be over 18. If you get stuck at all click on any of the "More Info" links you would see when editing your profile. Hope that helps. Goddlefrood From leekaiwen at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 15:49:08 2007 From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 23:49:08 +0800 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Way Off Topic: Johnny Depp as Barnabas Collins! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46BC88F4.3020304@yahoo.com> lwilliams15209 blessed us with this gem On 10/08/2007 14:45: > Really? I love Dark Shadows! I hadn't known there was a film version > coming out. I agree that Johnny Depp will do a wonderful job as Barnabas > Collins. I can't wait to see it. I remember as a child treasuring those few afternoons when I wasn't in school because it meant being able to watch DS (who knows? I may even have feigned sickness a time or two just to catch it). Later, when I was in college with much more sophisticated tastes, a local station ran reruns, and I couldn't believe how bad it was. As a full-on adult, now, I appreciate it for the camp. And Johnny Depp is one of my top three favorite actors, so I can't wait. I still recall a scene in which Jonathan Frid attempting to act (a Herculean effort for him under the best of circumstances) while trying desparately to ignore a fly that kept buzzing him until it landed on his nose! I hadn't realized until then that they actually broadcast live. So unfortunate I can't get it here in Taiwan. Lee Kaiwen, Taiwan From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 16:49:12 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Of human errors In-Reply-To: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <119285.18208.qm@web60918.mail.yahoo.com> I forgive all people of errors based on the fact they're human. I feel its more the job of the editor to find these errors than it is the author. Its hard to be critical of ones creative work. I didn't chose what I have at this point in my life - to be a single mom who's daughter has a life threatening illness and myself with cancer so I guess I get forgiveness for lack of perfection! OctobersChild48 at aol.com wrote: Carol: Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable of error. I can't remember exactly how old her youngest children are now, but I believe that Mackenzie (sp?) is about a year old and David about two, and she also has an older daughter, Jessica, about ten (?), as well as a husband and the usual family obligations like paying bills and so forth. All that plus the pressures of being a celebrity and producing a much-anticipated work on a deadline. Really, we shouldn't be surprised that it's flawed. Sandy: It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since when is having family responsibilities a free pass for doing a crappy job? My company's policy is: You leave your personal problems and life at the door when you walk in. I have family responsibilities and have to pay the bills, and with very little money I might add, but that does not give me a free pass at work. I make a mistake I face disciplinary action for it, and they don't care what my personal problems are. She chose to get married and have a family, and she chose her career. If she can't handle both she needs to give one of them up. What makes it all so different for her? Grrrrr. And, btw, Mackenzie is almost 3, David is 5 and Jessica just turned 14 last month. Sandy, who cuts JKR no slack because she has "obligations" family or otherwise. - ? . __________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monicaboukhalfa at tmail.com Fri Aug 10 16:14:55 2007 From: monicaboukhalfa at tmail.com (Monica Boukhalfa) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:14:55 -0600 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Of human errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1186762499.1D5B120B@dj11.dngr.org> Booo! Her response to you was rude. I completely agree with you. In the words of Hermione, 'ignore it!' On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:03 am, justcarol67 wrote: > Carol earlier: >> >> >> Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking > comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to > Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the > post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable > of error. >> >> Really, we shouldn't be surprised that it's flawed. >> >> Sandy: >> It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since when is > having family responsibilities a free pass for doing a crappy job? My > company's policy is: You leave your personal problems and life at the > door when you walk in. I have family responsibilities and have to pay > the bills, and with very little money I might add, but that does not > give me a free pass at work. I make a mistake I face disciplinary > action for it, and they don't care what my personal problems are. She > chose to get married and have a family, and she chose her career. If > she can't handle both she needs to give one of them up. What makes it > all so different for her? Grrrrr. And, btw, Mackenzie is almost 3, > David is 5 and Jessica just turned 14 last month. >> >> Sandy, who cuts JKR no slack because she has "obligations" family or > otherwise. > > Carol responds: > > Not exactly the response I expected to my apology for my own onlist > blunder! > > BTW, I know from experience that three- and five-year-olds are no > easier to care for than babies, and fourteen is a difficult age. I > wasn't making excuses for JKR, I was empathizing with her human > capacity for error, which I share. > > Carol, not knowing what to say but thinking that I'll keep my > apologies offlist in future > > --Monica M. Boukhalfa The power of accurate oberservation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. -George Bernard Shaw (1865-1950) From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 18:28:42 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:28:42 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > Goddlefrood: > > Bear in mind that kissing gates were, and in some > places still are, a common feature of an entrance > into a graveyard. In my grandparents 'village there > was one, as indeed there were and are several around > the west country of England where both Godric's > Hollow and the Forest of Dean are located. > > I'm all for reading more into the Potter books than > is there but in this instance I think it's just a > common graveyard accoutrement. > bboyminn: OK, now I understand what a Kissing Gate IS, but I don't understand why you would have one in a graveyard. Is it to keep the ghost from getting out ;)? The only thing I can think of, is that rather than mow the grass in the graveyard, they let sheep graze there, and need the gate to keep the sheep in. The only problem with sheep though is Sheep Dung. Do you really want to visit a graveyard littered in sheep dung? What I pictured when I read that was a wrought iron trellis; two tall fancy iron arches joined together by benches on each side where young couples could sit and kiss, somewhat hidden by the ivy covered trellis arch. Since we don't graze sheep in our graveyards, and we do drive cars into them, the wrought iron entrance to graveyards is pretty common. Though admittedly I've never seen one like I describe at the entrance to a graveyard, I have seen 'kissing trellises' in private gardens. Steve/bboyminn From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 18:17:29 2007 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:17:29 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <1186762499.1D5B120B@dj11.dngr.org> References: <1186762499.1D5B120B@dj11.dngr.org> Message-ID: Monica Boukhalfa: > Booo! Her response to you was rude. > I completely agree with you. > In the words of Hermione, 'ignore it!' The response may have been a bit rude, but I don't think that's reason to ignore the very valid point behind it. As Julie implied, personal errors are one thing, and professional errors are another, and Sandy, in her response, was talking about errors of the professional sort [or so I thought]. I have to say that agree with Sandy. Like it or not, people are held to a very high standard of almost perfection when it comes to their professional lives, which is probably why so many are willing to forgive blunders in their personal lives. I mean, my company is doing our annual audit right now, and I can tell you that if our files were rife with errors like JKR's plot is full of holes, many jobs would be on the line, including mine. Our auditors don't forgive errors; they want perfection. That's the sort of thing that I expect of JRK and her slew of editors. No, I wouldn't be like the auditors and expect perfection, but frankly, when an error gets to the point when even I, error-ignorer extraordinaire, get tripped up on it on the first read, it's a problem that should've been caught by someone more intimately involved with the publishing process. The fact that it's JKR's story makes it mostly her responsibility to catch it - catching errors is something done objectively and doesn't require one to pass any critical judgment on it, so the argument that it isn't JKR's problem because she's too attached to things doesn't hold too much water. (I will concede, however, that is isn't all JKR's fault. A good deal of the errors that made it into the books should've been caught somewhere along the line before the books went to press. Moreover, some errors are just going to be inevitable - the Lupin transformation and moon cycle thing was something that, unless she were a different type of writer, I just never expect that JKR would get right, and she didn't.) Therefore, Carol, your blunder may have been excusable, but using that as a benchmark to excuse JKR's much larger ones is much like comparing apples to pineapples - the names are similar, but they aren't too much alike. ~Ali, recognizing that her points probably aren't going to end up being as clear as she would've liked but she's already used up much work time writing this email From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 18:54:30 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:54:30 -0000 Subject: The Agony and the Ecstacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "justcarol67" wrote: > > Sandy wrote: > > > > I only had three expectations for this book: > > 1. Voldemort would be defeated > > 2. Harry would live > > 3. Harry and Ginny would reunite > > > > All three of these expectations were met, yet I > > have a great deal of negative criticism for the > > book.... One example: Even in the wizarding world > > people don't come back from the dead, but then we > > get King' Cross. I felt like I was watching Dallas > > again. > > > > For many it is a matter of unfulfilled expectations. > > That is not the case for me. > > > > Sandy > > > Carol responds: > If it helps, Dumbledore didn't come back from the dead. > ... Harry has, in essence, gone beyond the Veil but he > can't die as long as Voldemort has a remaining Horcrux. > So it's a **near-death experience** in which DD is dead > ... but Harry is still alive. > ... > bboyminn: Well, there are a couple of factual points I might argue with, but Harry experience is a near perfect model of a Near Death Experience. When people have this experience the typically move down a long tunnel of white light, and as they near the end, they are met by a loved one who either guides them on, or explains that it is not their time and they they should go back. Harry doesn't have 'white light', but he does have an other worldly white fog. A loved one, Dumbledore, mets his and explains what is happened, and that Harry should go back, but has the choice to go 'ON'. So, JKR remains true to her model of the wizard world, no living person every truly crosses back from the dead. The loved ones that Harry meets as he goes into the forest to met Dumbledore, are more like apparitions than bodies returned from the dead. They are more than ghosts, but less the fully physically formed. Steve/bboyminn From n2fgc at arrl.net Fri Aug 10 18:56:17 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:56:17 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Of human errors In-Reply-To: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0JMK003DFNA5AT40@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> | Sandy: | It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since | when is having family responsibilities a free pass for doing | a crappy job? My company's policy is: You leave your personal | problems and life at the door when you walk in. I have family | responsibilities and have to pay the bills, and with very | little money I might add, but that does not give me a free | pass at work. I make a mistake I face disciplinary action for | it, and they don't care what my personal problems are. She | chose to get married and have a family, and she chose her | career. If she can't handle both she needs to give one of | them up. What makes it all so different for her? Grrrrr. And, | btw, Mackenzie is almost 3, David is 5 and Jessica just | turned 14 last month. | | Sandy, who cuts JKR no slack because she has "obligations" [Lee]: Such company policies as you mention are okay on paper and in theory, but let's face reality, here...we're human beings, not robots, and turning off our personal lives when we enter the office can't always be done. I agree that if one makes mistakes at work, one must be held accountable. Too bad those in the highest positions don't always see it that way and pass the blame to those beneath them. :) Another thing...JK could live on the royalties she gets from even one of the HP books, let alone seven. She didn't have to complete the series if she didn't want to do so. She isn't working for us, she's doing it for the love of the story and the ardent wish to complete it. She's gone from struggling for subsistence to being an idol, and that can flummox the most balanced person. Again, JK isn't trying to please an employer; she's creating a work of art. And if an artist or anyone isn't supposed to make mistakes, then we're all in trouble. Let he or she who has never made a mistake or been inconsistent cast the first cauldron cake. :) Lee From jnferr at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 19:09:03 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:09:03 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708101209l685d141l2b4405c056c64e22@mail.gmail.com> > > bboyminn: > > Since we don't graze sheep in our graveyards, and we > do drive cars into them, the wrought iron entrance > to graveyards is pretty common. montims: the kind of graveyard I was envisaging: http://www.123rf.com/photo_701946.html I don't think Godric's Hollow has the kind of graveyard you would drive cars into... Surely even America has little villages with carfree graveyards? :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From n2fgc at arrl.net Fri Aug 10 19:08:49 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:08:49 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JMK005IONV0GM50@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> [Goddlefrood]: | For anyone who has not seen the picturtes supplied in this thread, | or might be unable to see them, a kissing gate is typically a | wooden structure with two upright structures meeting in a v shape. | From the middle of the v shape there is then a further upright | structure with a gate affixed to it on hinges. To enter one pushes | the gate away, steps into the gap, and then swings the gate so that | one can exit from the other side. At no time have any such kissing | gates felt to me like I was in any kind of enclosure, but then that | may just be me. | | Hopefully this description might help, I do recognise it could not. [Lee]: And I thank you for recognizing and accommodating those of us who can't use pictures. :-) Extra Butterbeer for you and a virtual hug from New Jersey! Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From kkersey at swbell.net Fri Aug 10 19:09:55 2007 From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:09:55 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Goddlefrood: > > I'm all for reading more into the Potter books than is there but > in this instance I think it's just a common graveyard accoutrement. It still works as foreshadowing even if it is a common graveyard accoutrement, IMO. If it was *not* something that would normally be found at a graveyard it would be, well, I don't know, bad writing. JKR calls attention to this detail especially in the last sentence of chapter 16. In the next chapter, where they actually go through the gate, it is just called a "gate". The mood is completely different at that point in the narrative. If kissing gate as foreshadowing is a stretch for you, you probably won't like this bit either: in Greek mythology, one of Hermes jobs is to lead dead souls into the underworld. Hermione not only accompanies Harry into (and out of!) the graveyard, but is the one who pushes open the gate. Well, stuff like that, as a reader you can take it or leave it, as you like. Elisabet From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 19:07:27 2007 From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Katie) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:07:27 -0000 Subject: Stephen King's Review of HP Message-ID: I found this link at Mugglenet, and I really enjoyed the article. It's maybe not as literary as I expected from such a prolific author, but it's good and I agree with most of it. http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20044270_20044274_20050689,00.html I was especially excited to hear King enjoyed the "Not my daughter, you BITCH!" Since I enjoyed that alot, too, and so many did not. : ) Katie From kkersey at swbell.net Fri Aug 10 19:29:36 2007 From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:29:36 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <0JMK003DFNA5AT40@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Mrs. Lee Storm wrote: > Again, JK isn't trying to please an employer; she's creating a work of art. > And if an artist or anyone isn't supposed to make mistakes, then we're all > in trouble. Let he or she who has never made a mistake or been inconsistent > cast the first cauldron cake. :) ...or be tasked with reconciling the timelines in Anna Karenina. You think JKR has trouble with maths, take a look at Tolstoy! I wish that she put the manuscript in the freezer for six months and then pulled it out and reread it before sending it to publication. IMO her editorial team let her down (as they did in OotP) in not being more critical with some of the confusing or excess parts. I thought some parts of DH were really well done and other parts didn't seem like finished work. Scholastic does have a continuity editor for the HP books - I heard or read an interview with her recently and she is credited on the last page. It would be interesting to see just how much editing / correcting was done on this manuscript. Still, I can imagine that JKR was ready to move on with her life and let the secrets go. That was a long time to not talk freely about one of the most important things in her life. Elisabet From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 19:42:50 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:42:50 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: --- OctobersChild48 at ... wrote: > > > Carol: > > > ... I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human > being capable of error. ... the usual family > obligations like paying ...bills and so forth. All > that plus the pressures of being a celebrity and > producing a much-anticipated work on a deadline. > > Really, we shouldn't be surprised that it's flawed. > > Sandy: > It is statements like this that make me so furious. > Since when is having family responsibilities a free > pass for doing a crappy job? ... > > Sandy, who cuts JKR no slack because she has > "obligations" family or otherwise. > bboyminn: First, 'crappy job' is your opinion and not a fact. Certainly a vast majority of us are satisfied and even please with the book. So, let's not let hyperbole runs away with us. Next, I question whether JKR's final work is any more flawed than any other book out there. If I pick at the obsessive level that we are using to judge JKR, I'm sure I can find flaws and errors in nearly every written work. Many authors, when they need the moon to be full, the moon is full, even if in the real world the moon was not or could not be full on the particular night. If they need an impossible to highly unlikely bit of science to exist, then it exists. It is call 'artistic license'. You are allowed to fudge reality a bit to tell a story. You are even allowed to die and come back again, /a la/ - Sherlock Holms. It is the story and it's flow that counts, not the picky little details. I think this story flowed very smoothly from beginning to end with only the slightest little bumps in the road. I still say many of the more extreme negative feeling toward the book are not so much that you (the general 'you') didn't like what you got, but that you didn't get what you wanted or expected. But, to fully deliver the 'wants' and 'expectation' of her fan base would have been totally impossible not to mention a disaster of a book. If you don't like the story you got, fine, find some fan fiction alternative versions, but don't complain because the author didn't tell the story you (the general 'you') wanted to hear. The author first and foremost obligation is to tell the story she has to tell. For that, I applaud her. There were plenty of story lines that I wanted and expected, but I accepted and thoroughly enjoyed the story I got. But then...that's just my opinion. Steve/bboyminn From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 20:06:16 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Stephen King's Review of HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <11072.74871.qm@web60912.mail.yahoo.com> OMG that line made me giggle which was good because it was so intense at that point! her say it when I read it! Katie wrote: I found this link at Mugglenet, and I really enjoyed the article. It's maybe not as literary as I expected from such a prolific author, but it's good and I agree with most of it. http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20044270_20044274_20050689,00.html I was especially excited to hear King enjoyed the "Not my daughter, you BITCH!" Since I enjoyed that alot, too, and so many did not. : ) Katie Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jnoyl at aim.com Fri Aug 10 20:57:49 2007 From: jnoyl at aim.com (JLyon) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:57:49 -0700 Subject: DH as wedding favor - broken spines? Message-ID: <5A21C36B-4DD9-4D32-A02C-7B987A65FEF2@aim.com> My copy of DH has the middle half of the book practically unbonded from the spine. Poor quality book, in more ways than one. noylj From zanooda2 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 22:59:55 2007 From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:59:55 -0000 Subject: "Your Holeyness" Message-ID: I noticed that in chapter 8 ("The Wedding")Fred teases George differently in American and British editions. In Am.ed. it's "Your Holeyness", but in Br.ed. it's "Lugless". I'm not a native English speaker, and I was wondering why would Scholastic editors change this. Does "lugless" mean simply "earless" or is it something more? Thanks! zanooda From drdara at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 00:26:41 2007 From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Way Off Topic: Johnny Depp as Barnabas Collins! Message-ID: <888091.43390.qm@web60724.mail.yahoo.com> I saw the remake of the series they had on in the 90's, I loved it. Could never quite get into the original series though. I love Johnny Depp too and thinks he would make a good Barnabas too. Danielle lwilliams15209 blessed us with this gem On 10/08/2007 14:45: > Really? I love Dark Shadows! I hadn't known there was a film version > coming out. I agree that Johnny Depp will do a wonderful job as Barnabas > Collins. I can't wait to see it. I remember as a child treasuring those few afternoons when I wasn't in school because it meant being able to watch DS (who knows? I may even have feigned sickness a time or two just to catch it). Later, when I was in college with much more sophisticated tastes, a local station ran reruns, and I couldn't believe how bad it was. As a full-on adult, now, I appreciate it for the camp. And Johnny Depp is one of my top three favorite actors, so I can't wait. I still recall a scene in which Jonathan Frid attempting to act (a Herculean effort for him under the best of circumstances) while trying desparately to ignore a fly that kept buzzing him until it landed on his nose! I hadn't realized until then that they actually broadcast live. So unfortunate I can't get it here in Taiwan. Lee Kaiwen, Taiwan ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tfaucette6387 at charter.net Sat Aug 11 01:10:24 2007 From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 01:10:24 -0000 Subject: DH was the last thing they ever read... Message-ID: Anne Squires: I admit that I don't know why; but, the story of the violent home invasion and subsequent murder of three members the Petit family in Conneticut has really affected me. In a day and age in which one hears of truly horrendous and inhuman acts on a nearly daily basis this story, for some reason, has really stood out for me. It made me cry; it sickened me; and it especially made me afraid. It literally gave me nightmares for several nights. As a single woman who lives alone this story made me afraid in my own home and I have never felt that way before. As you may know, the home invasion occurred at 3:00 am on July 23rd. Today I read an article that mentioned that the two young girls spent the evening of the 22nd reading Deathly Hallows. Well, that information struck me even more because I also spent the evening of the 22nd rereading parts of DH. Just think, the very last thing these girls read in their lives was Harry Potter. Probably that's what was on their minds as they went to sleep that night. Maybe that's what they were dreaming of when they were suddenly awakened to a living nightmare. I think it is worth noting that there is evil in the world that rivals anything the DEs could ever get up to. Anne From tk-listmail at tsukata.org Sat Aug 11 01:37:22 2007 From: tk-listmail at tsukata.org (JC/TsuKata) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 20:37:22 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Of human errors In-Reply-To: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9A91C8CA4B631-8BC-27D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46BD12D2.9030608@tsukata.org> > > Carol: > > Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking > comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to > Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the > post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable > of error. I can't remember exactly how old her youngest children are > now, but I believe that Mackenzie (sp?) is about a year old and David > about two, and she also has an older daughter, Jessica, about ten (?), > as well as a husband and the usual family obligations like paying > bills and so forth. All that plus the pressures of being a celebrity > and producing a much-anticipated work on a deadline. > > Sandy: > It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since when is having family responsibilities a free pass for doing a crappy job? My company's policy is: You leave your personal problems and life at the door when you walk in. I have family responsibilities and have to pay the bills, and with very little money I might add, but that does not give me a free pass at work. TsuKata: I'm with Sandy here. For starters, I'm sure that JKR can hire a nanny, as well as an accountant to take care of her bills. But even going on the assumption that with all those muggle-ish things taken care of by the scads of money she has, she has stress in her life, it's no excuse. As someone else pointed out in a subthread, I think Carol (OP) may have felt some humility but is also unfairly comparing a personal mistake with a professional error. Now, I have no problems with gaping plot holes. I'm a Star Trek fan after all, and it has its share! What I have trouble with is that JKR seems very arrogant about her gaping plot holes in interviews. She blames them on prying fans. She says that she carefully worded the prophecy, and it's bloody incoherent when put up against the plot of DH. I'd be much happier if she just said "Hey, I've written seven incredibly long books in a short period of time, and if you saw the plot holes we caught at the last moment, you'd be thankful that we only left in the ones that we did." Instead, it's like she's angry we have the audacity to query her work. I think it's natural that with a work this large, there will be gaps. There were gaps in LotR, and Tolkien had years to edit, plus a mind like a steel trap. I don't think it's natural to treat those gaps with the flippancy that JKR has. --TsuKata From jeopardy18 at comcast.net Sat Aug 11 02:28:12 2007 From: jeopardy18 at comcast.net (seanmulligan2000) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:28:12 -0000 Subject: Age statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "seanmulligan2000" > wrote: > > > Does anyone here know how to put an age statement on my yahoo > profile? > > Goddlefrood: > > Yes, open your profile page and towards the top you will see: > > Home | View My Profiles | Edit Profile Information | Edit Picture | > Edit Voice > > Click on "Edit Profile Information". There is a field in the > resulting window to fill in pretty much whatever you want. > Towards the bottom there is a funcrtion to have your profile > available to adults only, check the box if you want to be shown > only to those certifying themselves to be over 18. > > If you get stuck at all click on any of the "More Info" links you > would see when editing your profile. > > Hope that helps. > > Goddlefrood > What is my profile page? I just see an edit membership at the top of the screen. From stacygalore at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 03:21:52 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:21:52 -0000 Subject: NY Times article: Memo to the Dept. of Magical Copyright Enforcement Message-ID: I read this article in the New York Times and thougt I would share it with you all. My fake Prada bag from Chinatown looks better than these fakes. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/opinion/10potter.html? ex=1187409600&en=9c128077d9ef4074&ei=5070&emc=eta1 From leekaiwen at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 03:49:49 2007 From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:49:49 +0800 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] NY Times article: Memo to the Dept. of Magical Copyright Enforcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46BD31DD.1030707@yahoo.com> stacygalore blessed us with this gem On 11/08/2007 11:21: > I read this article in the New York Times and thougt I would share it > with you all. My fake Prada bag from Chinatown looks better than these fakes. OK, from my vantage point here in Taiwan, I'll make two comments. First, I don't think anybody is expected to believe these are "real" Harry Potters; just some folks trying to make a quick yuan churning out hacks. The fanfic community does the same thing, except that these guys are in it for the money, and they don't necessarily care about quality. As to the strange plotline and stranger names ("Big Spinach"? "Naughty Bubble"?), trust me, they sound much better in the original language and cultural milieu. And even in the few excerpts the NYT printed I recognize borrowings from several traditional Chinese mythologies. As to the unauthorized Chinese translations, well, what do you expect? The *authorized* Chinese translations have usually taken upwards of six months to hit the stores, and no true Harry Potter fan could be expected to wait that long. These pirates are just meeting market demand. The smart thing to do would have been for Bloomsbury/Scholastic to have the Chinese translation nearly ready to go the day the English edition hit the streets. Get the authorized translation out sooner and you undercut the market for knock-offs. Lee Kaiwen, Taiwan From stacygalore at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 04:12:12 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:12:12 -0000 Subject: NY Times article: Memo to the Dept. of Magical Copyright Enforcement In-Reply-To: <46BD31DD.1030707@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lee Kaiwen wrote: > I don't think anybody is expected to believe these are "real" Harry > Potters; just some folks trying to make a quick yuan churning out hacks. ITA. It is like my fake Prada bag. Nobody is expected to believe that a real Prada bag is being sold on the streets of Chinatown. > As to the strange plotline and stranger names ("Big Spinach"? "Naughty > Bubble"?), trust me, they sound much better in the original language and > cultural milieu. As an Asian-American, I can understand this. Some things are lost in translation and just sound odd in English. > recognize borrowings from several traditional Chinese mythologies. That's what's kind of cool about the knock-offs. They have a Chinese flavor to them. > As to the unauthorized Chinese translations, well, what do you expect? > The *authorized* Chinese translations have usually taken upwards of six > months to hit the stores, and no true Harry Potter fan could be expected > to wait that long. These pirates are just meeting market demand. Yes, I agree. I went to Manila two years ago just as the big crackdown on pirate dvd sales was happening, yet there were still guys on the street offering them. If those guys were risking fines and possibly jail time, they must be making big money from the demand for dvds. People just can't wait for the latest Hollywood releases to make their way to Asia. Stacy (Secretly wishing Harry ended up with Cho Chang, for all the Asian fans out there) From raymonddavenport at btinternet.com Sat Aug 11 04:24:40 2007 From: raymonddavenport at btinternet.com (raymond300659) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:24:40 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <46BD12D2.9030608@tsukata.org> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, JC/TsuKata wrote: > > > > > Carol: > > > > Having just made a pretty big blunder on the main list, mistaking > > comments relating to Eileen and Tobias Snape for comments relating to > > Andromeda and Ted Tonks, mentioned in the previous paragraph of the > > post, I now have increased sympathy for JKR as a human being capable > > of error. I can't remember exactly how old her youngest children are > > now, but I believe that Mackenzie (sp?) is about a year old and David > > about two, and she also has an older daughter, Jessica, about ten (?), > > as well as a husband and the usual family obligations like paying > > bills and so forth. All that plus the pressures of being a celebrity > > and producing a much-anticipated work on a deadline. > > > > Sandy: > > It is statements like this that make me so furious. Since when is having family responsibilities a free pass for doing a crappy job? My company's policy is: You leave your personal problems and life at the door when you walk in. I have family responsibilities and have to pay the bills, and with very little money I might add, but that does not give me a free pass at work. > TsuKata: > > I'm with Sandy here. For starters, I'm sure that JKR can hire a nanny, > as well as an accountant to take care of her bills. But even going on > the assumption that with all those muggle-ish things taken care of by > the scads of money she has, she has stress in her life, it's no excuse. > As someone else pointed out in a subthread, I think Carol (OP) may have > felt some humility but is also unfairly comparing a personal mistake > with a professional error. > > Now, I have no problems with gaping plot holes. I'm a Star Trek fan > after all, and it has its share! What I have trouble with is that JKR > seems very arrogant about her gaping plot holes in interviews. She > blames them on prying fans. She says that she carefully worded the > prophecy, and it's bloody incoherent when put up against the plot of > DH. I'd be much happier if she just said "Hey, I've written seven > incredibly long books in a short period of time, and if you saw the plot > holes we caught at the last moment, you'd be thankful that we only left > in the ones that we did." Instead, it's like she's angry we have the > audacity to query her work. > > I think it's natural that with a work this large, there will be gaps. > There were gaps in LotR, and Tolkien had years to edit, plus a mind like > a steel trap. I don't think it's natural to treat those gaps with the > flippancy that JKR has. > > --TsuKata > re plot holes just because you do not get the book you wanted or the one you think you deserve you have the right to pull it apart maybe the u.k books are not the same as u.s.a but read the books forget the story that you want and enjoy them. raydav From zanelupin at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 04:39:35 2007 From: zanelupin at yahoo.com (KathyK) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:39:35 -0000 Subject: Age statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "seanmulligan2000" wrote: > > What is my profile page? I just see an edit membership at the top > of the screen. > If you click on your Yahoo ID in one of your posts or click on 'my account' at the top of the Yahoo page and enter your password, you can get to your profile to edit it. Or, your profile is here: http://profiles.yahoo.com/seanmulligan2000 I hope that's helpful. KathyK From leekaiwen at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 11:51:17 2007 From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:51:17 +0800 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: NY Times article: Memo to the Dept. of Magical Copyright Enforcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46BDA2B5.4080701@yahoo.com> stacygalore blessed us with this gem On 11/08/2007 12:12: > ITA. It is like my fake Prada bag. Nobody is expected to believe > that a real Prada bag is being sold on the streets of Chinatown. Well, since I don't know "Prada" from "Pravda", I'll take your word on that. In Asia it's easy to find knock-offs of all calibers, from the $1 DVDs on the streets to high end electronics. I've seen JVC and Sony knock-offs in Hong Kong that you couldn't (and aren't supposed to) tell from the real thing; then again, I've seen $US10 knocck-offs in night markets that people buy BECAUSE they're fake. > Yes, I agree. I went to Manila two years ago just as the big > crackdown on pirate dvd sales was happening, yet there were still > guys on the street offering them. Without meaning to be cynical, WHICH "big crackdown" was that? If the Phllipines is anything like China, every year or so the governent will make a big show, capture and destroy a few million DVDs, then it's back to business as usual. The problem is, knock-offs and pirated DVDs are a big part of the economic equation -- there are entire towns in China whose sole product is pirated DVDs. Put the pirates out of business, and you destroy the local economy. Of course, it doesn't help when a genuine copy of Windows Vista sells for the equivalent of three months' wages in Beijing. I don't know what your income is, but what American would pay 6 to 8 thousand dollars for Vista when you can pick it up on the street for a buck? Lee Kaiwen, Taiwan From ceridwennight at hotmail.com Sat Aug 11 12:15:47 2007 From: ceridwennight at hotmail.com (Ceridwen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:15:47 -0000 Subject: Way Off Topic: Johnny Depp as Barnabas Collins! In-Reply-To: <888091.43390.qm@web60724.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, danielle dassero wrote: > > I saw the remake of the series they had on in the 90's, I loved it. Could never quite get into the original series though. I love Johnny Depp too and thinks he would make a good Barnabas too. > Danielle > > > lwilliams15209 blessed us with this gem On 10/08/2007 14:45: > > > Really? I love Dark Shadows! I hadn't known there was a film version > > coming out. I agree that Johnny Depp will do a wonderful job as Barnabas > > Collins. I can't wait to see it. Lee K: > I remember as a child treasuring those few afternoons when I wasn't in > school because it meant being able to watch DS (who knows? I may even > have feigned sickness a time or two just to catch it). Ceridwen: I hadn't heard this. I'm really looking forward to the movie now. I watched the original, complete with wiggling walls and sticking doors. LOVED Barnabas. I tried to get into the new version, but between working half the nights it was on, and the oddity of slick sets and scripts, I just couldn't. Interesting, though, that the new version had Maggie having an affair with Roger. I liked that. On one of those reunion get-togethers, Lara Parker, who played Angelique, said that her first appearance as a vampire was with press- on nails for fangs. DS was the king of low-budget. Ceridwen. From muellem at bc.edu Sat Aug 11 14:26:35 2007 From: muellem at bc.edu (colebiancardi) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:26:35 -0000 Subject: You may already know this - but a new Star Trek movie is coming in 12/2008 Message-ID: kewl! It will be focused on the "younger years" of the original Star Trek series. It will still have Leonard Nimoy playing an older Spock, but the young Spock will be played by Heroes' Zachary Quinto - oh my, a hottie Spock. I always thought Spock was someone to drool over (yeah, I am weird), but oh mama, I gotta hold onto my boots here with Zach!! colebiancardi.... From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 14:36:16 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: NY Times article: Memo to the Dept. of Magical Copyright Enforcement In-Reply-To: <46BDA2B5.4080701@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <126079.9733.qm@web60911.mail.yahoo.com> My knockoff coach bag/wallet and louis vuitton sunglasses all look authentic (gifts from my mom). I work with people who love these kinds of things (why on earth would someone spend 500 on a purse to only carry 20 bucks in?) not that I'd ever buy any of this myself mind you - I'm more of a target clearance shopper. I wonder how lack of knock offs would affect prices of the real thing - would the real thing be less valuable (because no one's trying to copy it) or more so because its more rare? Lee Kaiwen wrote: stacygalore blessed us with this gem On 11/08/2007 12:12: > ITA. It is like my fake Prada bag. Nobody is expected to believe > that a real Prada bag is being sold on the streets of Chinatown. Well, since I don't know "Prada" from "Pravda", I'll take your word on that. In Asia it's easy to find knock-offs of all calibers, from the $1 DVDs on the streets to high end electronics. I've seen JVC and Sony knock-offs in Hong Kong that you couldn't (and aren't supposed to) tell from the real thing; then again, I've seen $US10 knocck-offs in night markets that people buy BECAUSE they're fake. > Yes, I agree. I went to Manila two years ago just as the big > crackdown on pirate dvd sales was happening, yet there were still > guys on the street offering them. Without meaning to be cynical, WHICH "big crackdown" was that? If the Phllipines is anything like China, every year or so the governent will make a big show, capture and destroy a few million DVDs, then it's back to business as usual. The problem is, knock-offs and pirated DVDs are a big part of the economic equation -- there are entire towns in China whose sole product is pirated DVDs. Put the pirates out of business, and you destroy the local economy. Of course, it doesn't help when a genuine copy of Windows Vista sells for the equivalent of three months' wages in Beijing. I don't know what your income is, but what American would pay 6 to 8 thousand dollars for Vista when you can pick it up on the street for a buck? Lee Kaiwen, Taiwan Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 15:42:04 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: USA vs UK versions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <872508.5906.qm@web60913.mail.yahoo.com> I had no idea until this group that the UK versions are different from the ones here in the US. Can someone tell me how they compare? Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Sat Aug 11 15:35:03 2007 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:35:03 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "Your Holeyness" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: zanooda: > I noticed that in chapter 8 ("The Wedding")Fred teases George > differently in American and British editions. In Am.ed. it's "Your > Holeyness", but in Br.ed. it's "Lugless". I'm not a native English > speaker, and I was wondering why would Scholastic editors change this. > Does "lugless" mean simply "earless" or is it something more? Thanks! Lug is British slang for ear. See here: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/l.htm By the way, for those who actually is in the UK, what would you call a [mechanical] lug, then? Or do you not use a different term for that bicycle part? ~Ali From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 16:06:36 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "Your Holeyness" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <437152.58630.qm@web60925.mail.yahoo.com> Which part of the bike are you speaking of? The only mechanical lug I think of are lug nuts which are the nuts that hold a motor vehicles wheels on. I'm assuming you mean the sprocket of the bicycle the gear like item that the chain is attached to! Amazing how its all "English" yet we still need translations! Then again here in the US we need translations from coast to coast and north the south! "P. Alexis Nguyen" wrote: zanooda: > I noticed that in chapter 8 ("The Wedding")Fred teases George > differently in American and British editions. In Am.ed. it's "Your > Holeyness", but in Br.ed. it's "Lugless". I'm not a native English > speaker, and I was wondering why would Scholastic editors change this. > Does "lugless" mean simply "earless" or is it something more? Thanks! Lug is British slang for ear. See here: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/l.htm By the way, for those who actually is in the UK, what would you call a [mechanical] lug, then? Or do you not use a different term for that bicycle part? ~Ali Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 18:42:14 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:42:14 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Goddlefrood wrote: > > For anyone who has not seen the picturtes supplied in this thread, or might be unable to see them, a kissing gate is typically a wooden structure with two upright structures meeting in a v shape. From the middle of the v shape there is then a further upright structure with a gate affixed to it on hinges. To enter one pushes the gate away, steps into the gap, and then swings the gate so that one can exit from the other side. At no time have any such kissing gates felt to me like I was in any kind of enclosure, but then that may just be me. Carol responds: What I don't understand, and I realize that this is not an important question with regard to the story, is how the v-shape (or circular shape in the photo I linked to) could keep out animals (presumably large hoofed ones, not squirrels or rabbits) any better than a regular gate, which still requires a human hand to slide the latch. Carol, thinking that a stile, or even what we in the U.S. call a cattle guard, would work just as well or better to keep sheep and cattle out of a graveyard From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 19:46:25 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:46:25 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <119285.18208.qm@web60918.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Julie Borgmann wrote: > > I forgive all people of errors based on the fact they're human. I feel its more the job of the editor to find these errors than it is the author. Its hard to be critical of ones creative work. ,snip> > Carol responds: Thanks, Julie. You're absolutely right that it's hard to see the errors in our own creative work because we're so close to it, which is why editors have jobs. But I think it's important to realize that editors are just as human as authors and working to a tight deadline and that the content of a book is ultimately the author's responsibility. Speaking as a copyeditor, one of the primary considerations of an editor at any level is to respect the substance of an author's work. A copyeditor has to retain the author's voice to the extent possible while, for example, eliminating mechanical errors, changing passive voice to active voice, and editing out wordiness and awkwardness--maybe not so much with an established author like JKR as he or she might have done with an unknown author, in part because the wording of the American and British editions has to match as closely as possible. Typos and other errors have to be corrected (I spotted one, "here" for "there" in a bit of dialogue spoken by Ron, which should have been caught by the proofreader if the copyeditor missed it, but no one is perfect.) The American copyeditor would Americanize the punctuation and spelling. The continuity editor creates a style sheet to make sure that spells and names are spelled and capitalized consistently, probably specifying, at least in the Scholastic edition, that that incantations should be italicized (e.g., "Avada Kedavra") while the actual names of the curses (e.g., "Killing Curse") are not. It appears that Scholastic at one point spotted the change of Moaning Myrtle's, er, home from a U-bend to an S-bend, investigated British plumbing, and decided that the Hogwarts "bathroom" should have both. Personally, I would have suggested changing "S-bend" to "U-bend" to match CoS and queried JKR as the final authority. It is not, however, the continuity editor's job to point out the improbability of a letter written to Sirius Black at another address showing up at 12 GP. *If* an editor spotted that (and I doubt that the same copyeditor has been used for all the books, and the current Scholastic continuity editor only started working on the HP books with OoP), he or she would query JKR. It is the author's responsibility to read the edited manuscript and accept or reject corrections, as well as to act on or ignore queries. A senior editor like Arthur Levine looks at the book as a whole, not the individual words or sentences or scenes, and makes suggestions which the author acts on--or not. I don't know what his working relationship is with Bloomsbury, the primary editor. In any case, Levine was too busy reacting emotionally to the book to make productive suggestions, as I would have been. I could *not* have edited this book on any level, especially with a deadline to meet. Only a non-HP fan who didn't care about the fates of the characters could have copyedited it. And such a person would not have spotted inconsistencies like the letter (which serves other purposes in the plot besides having its signature torn off by Snape) or Muggles on Platform 9 3/4 in "The Prince's Tale." The American continuity editor seems to be in charge of which Briticisms to retain and which to change. I would question her use of "bathroom" in earlier books for what the British call a "toilet" since no one bathes in a "restroom" (U.S. usage). "Lavatory" (washroom) might have been better. I would have changed "S-bend" (in HBP?) to "U-bend" with a query. And I would not have changed "pants" (or whatever the British original was) to "underpants" for Ron's underwear in an early chapter (possibly "The Ghoul in the Attic"). "Boxers," "briefs," or even "underwear" would have been better. But those are minor matters, related to readability. (Well, I take readability seriously, but it's my job!) The story itself is the author's responsibility. (*I* would have queried Harry's use of a Crucio with "But aren't the Unforgiveable Curses unforgiveable?" It's quite possible that an editor did as well. But whether anyone did so or not, the decision to have Harry use that curse, and the existence of any plotholes or other inconsistencies other than, say, the effects of a particular spell) is JKR's. I used to think that I'd like to have been JKR's editor. Now I'm thankful that she's never heard of me. I could have eliminated some of her misplaced modifiers and awkward repetitions and changed "due to the fact that" to "because," but only after a cooling-off period to recover from my emotional reactions to the books. And by the time I could point out some of the consistency errors (those apparent on a second reading focused on matters of style and Americanization), it would probably be too late. The book was on a set production schedule that a mere copyeditor had no authority to alter, and JKR would have been focused on the big picture, not on continuity errors that only she could fix. BTW, did anyone read Stephen Kings's review, pointing out the continuity error in "Robinson Cruseoe," who swims out naked and comes back with supplies in his pockets? Oops. Happens to the best of us. And Shakespeare is notorious for certain anachronisms, such as clocks and bound books in ancient Rome. Carol, who thinks it's remarkable that JKR has brought everything from Gringotts and Griphook to Hagrid and Harry full circle and would rather see the diamond than its flaws From drdara at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 20:02:41 2007 From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Driving Lessons Message-ID: <281625.29579.qm@web60720.mail.yahoo.com> I know someone's given a review of Grint in Driving Lessons, but I just saw the movie and it was an awesome movie. Grint was just a wonderful actor in this movie and I can see him going on to better things when he has finished with the Potter movies. And he is being smart doing other movies now, he won't get stuck in the role of Ron. He will have other movies on his resume. Danielle ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 20:29:04 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:29:04 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ali wrote: > Therefore, Carol, your blunder may have been excusable, but using that as a benchmark to excuse JKR's much larger ones is much like comparing apples to pineapples - the names are similar, but they aren't too much alike. Carol responds: "May have been excusable"? That's very generous of you! Maybe you've never misread a post or misremembered canon, but I think most of us have done something similar and realize that we and our fellow posters are all fallible. And I had hoped that my public apology for a blunder would be accepted as well-intentioned rather than greeted by flames. (I do know that Sandy was angry with JKR and misdirected her anger at me. I forgive you, Sandy, and understand that you're human, too. And you, too, Ali, even though I still find the assertion that my blunder "*may* have been excusable" a bit much.) As for authors and editors, I've already talked about where an editor's responsibility begins and ends, so I won't repeat my points. I was *trying* to bring a cheerful, magnanimous, and forgiving tone to my post, pointing out that human beings, whether authors or editors or readers, are fallible. To err is human; to forgive divine. Let him (or her) who has never made an error cast the first stone. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, even those who think our onlist blunders *may* be excusable. I realize that you didn't mean to be supercilious, only to disagree with me regarding JKR (whom *I* was trying to forgive for her human errors and to empathize with because of my own). I forgive the unintended insult and respect your right to disagree with me. However, I think we're all making too much of the continuity errors and forgetting to look at the series as a whole. It's time, IMO, for posters on the main list to stop complaining and examine the themes and character development and so forth calmly and objectively. I'm trying, not very successfully, it appears, to get past the bickering and bring back the enjoyment we used to feel in discussing the books. As for this list, I think a cool butterbeer is in order, perhaps accompanied with one of Professor McGonagall's ginger newts. Carol, thinking that we should all forgive each other's blunders and extend the same courtesy to JKR, who is, after all, the creator of the books we're discussing and the reason that these groups exist From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 20:46:42 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:46:42 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Elisabet wrote: It would be interesting to see just how much editing / correcting was done on this manuscript. Carol responds: Almost certainly the manuscript received what is referred to in the publishing business as a "light edit": Grammar, punctuation, spelling, minor consistency matters that can be corrected by referring to a style sheet, and in the U.S., Americanization of spelling, punctuation, and a few terms that might be misinterpreted by readers. Here's one company's definitions of "light edit," "medium edit, and "heavy edit," which are consistent with those of the various publishers I've worked with: http://www.pubserv.com/Pubserv/EditLevels.html (The part about figures and tables does not, of course, apply to a fiction manuscript, but the U.S. copyeditor probably included typecodes for the illustrations at the head of each chapter.) If the editor in charge tells the copyeditor to do a light edit and he or she does a medium edit, the copyeditor will get a reprimand or even a warning. (Do this again and you'll lose your job.) If he or she is told to do a light edit and does a heavy edit, he or she will almost certainly be fired. Like Snape following Dumbledore's orders, you do what you're instructed even if you don't like it. Carol, who prefers medium edits but understands why JKR wasn't given one From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 21:01:41 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:01:41 -0000 Subject: USA vs UK versions In-Reply-To: <872508.5906.qm@web60913.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Julie Borgmann wrote: > I had no idea until this group that the UK versions are different from the ones here in the US. Can someone tell me how they compare? Carol responds: Most of the differences are minor. The Scholastic edition of HBP contains lines spoken by DD to Draco ("They cannot kill you if you are already dead") that don't appear in the Bloomsbury edition and were removed from the Scholastic paperback. The Lexicon discusses the matter and lists most of the differences. (I don't think they've done DH yet). Start here http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/differences.html and follow the links to the other books. Carol, noting that this matter has been discussed on the main list if you're interested From zanooda2 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 22:35:04 2007 From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:35:04 -0000 Subject: "Your Holeyness" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "P. Alexis Nguyen" wrote: > Lug is British slang for ear. Thank you for answering! I know that "lug" can mean "ear", I just thought there may be more to it. All previous twins' "ear" jokes were based on a word play: Holey/Holy, 'ear, 'ear. I wondered if "lugless" had a second meaning in Britain, otherwise the joke is just straightforward, without any pun. And I still don't understand why they had to replace "lugless" with another word in Am. edition. "Lug/ear" is easily found in ordinary dictionaries :-). From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sat Aug 11 22:50:03 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:50:03 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kkersey_austin" wrote: > > > > Goddlefrood: > > > > I'm all for reading more into the Potter books than is there but > > in this instance I think it's just a common graveyard accoutrement. Elisabet: > It still works as foreshadowing even if it is a common graveyard > accoutrement, IMO. If it was *not* something that would normally be > found at a graveyard it would be, well, I don't know, bad writing. JKR > calls attention to this detail especially in the last sentence of > chapter 16. In the next chapter, where they actually go through the > gate, it is just called a "gate". The mood is completely different at > that point in the narrative. > > If kissing gate as foreshadowing is a stretch for you, you probably > won't like this bit either: in Greek mythology, one of Hermes jobs is > to lead dead souls into the underworld. Hermione not only accompanies > Harry into (and out of!) the graveyard, but is the one who pushes open > the gate. > > Well, stuff like that, as a reader you can take it or leave it, as you > like. Geoff: i don't think it has any foreshadowing. JKR just mentions a kissing gate because they are so common. The wooden version is by far the most numerous; the area where I live is littered with them and certainly the National Trust has a current policy of replacing stiles with them. The general idea of a kssing gate is that, unlike a field gate, they cannot be left open and therefore stock cannot stray. In some villages, stock is sometimes found wandering loose and hence, a gate at the church would preclude them from getting into the graveyard. From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 23:29:56 2007 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:29:56 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > What I don't understand, is how the v-shape could keep out > animals (presumably large hoofed ones) any better than a regular > gate, which still requires a human hand to slide the latch. Mike: As you know, I'm not from the isles, so I may be wrong in my assumption here. But in a seperate link, I saw a wooden gate that had no latch, it was just free to swing. Any large animal could not negotiate the gate because it cannot get itself far enough into the point of the "V" to allow the gate to swing behind it. > Carol, thinking that a stile, or even what we in the U.S. call a > cattle guard, would work just as well or better to keep sheep and > cattle out of a graveyard Mike: Ah, but cattle guards are not as near infallible and cost much more to make and to install. As long as these gates are kept up, it's a perfectly fine method for precluding the large animals from traversing to unwanted areas. And costs only a couple of hinges more than the rest of the fence. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Sun Aug 12 06:12:09 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:12:09 -0000 Subject: Driving Lessons In-Reply-To: <281625.29579.qm@web60720.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- danielle dassero wrote: > > I know someone's given a review of Grint in Driving >Lessons, but I just saw the movie and it was an awesome > movie. Grint was just a wonderful actor in this movie > and I can see him going on to better things when he > has finished with the Potter movies. And he is being > smart doing other movies now, he won't get stuck in > the role of Ron. He will have other movies on his > resume. > > Danielle bboyminn: I really enjoyed the moive too. I think Rupert did a good job. The only complaints I do have about the movie are related to writing and directing. I did read some reviews that said Rupert's apart was a little 'wooden' meaning, I assume, unexpressive, but he is playing a very wooden inhibited character so that would make his performance right-on. I especially liked the development as they practiced Shakespeare's plays. Rupert is stiff as a board in the earlier scenes, but is dead on once his character gets the hang of it. I would have loved to have seen 'Thunder Pants', even though I know it was a stupid movie. I've seen several video clips of it, and I think Rupert really develops an amazingly well realized character as Alan A. Alan. Steve/bboyminn From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 12 06:31:58 2007 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Stephen King's Review of HP In-Reply-To: <11072.74871.qm@web60912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <919545.97306.qm@web52403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> That was an amazing article! I adore Stephen King and knew he was after JKR to keep Harry alive, but didn't expect such an in-depth, heartfelt review. God/dess Bless You, Mr. King! Alex Hogan Julie Borgmann wrote: OMG that line made me giggle which was good because it was so intense at that point! her say it when I read it! Katie wrote: I found this link at Mugglenet, and I really enjoyed the article. It's maybe not as literary as I expected from such a prolific author, but it's good and I agree with most of it. http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20044270_20044274_20050689,00.html I was especially excited to hear King enjoyed the "Not my daughter, you BITCH!" Since I enjoyed that alot, too, and so many did not. : ) Katie Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Aug 12 06:34:32 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:34:32 -0000 Subject: Kissing gate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote: > > Goddlefrood wrote: > > > > > For anyone who has not seen the picturtes supplied in this thread, > or might be unable to see them, a kissing gate is typically a wooden > structure with two upright structures meeting in a v shape. From the > middle of the v shape there is then a further upright structure with a > gate affixed to it on hinges. To enter one pushes the gate away, steps > into the gap, and then swings the gate so that one can exit from the > other side. At no time have any such kissing gates felt to me like I > was in any kind of enclosure, but then that may just be me. > > Carol responds: > > What I don't understand, and I realize that this is not an important > question with regard to the story, is how the v-shape (or circular > shape in the photo I linked to) could keep out animals (presumably > large hoofed ones, not squirrels or rabbits) any better than a regular > gate, which still requires a human hand to slide the latch. > > Carol, thinking that a stile, or even what we in the U.S. call a > cattle guard, would work just as well or better to keep sheep and > cattle out of a graveyard Geoff: Possibly because you haven't realised the size of a kissing gate from the pictures. An average gate will only be about 3-4 feet across and the gap as you go throug the "v" maybe as little as 18". As Mike has also ommented, cattle grids are expensive and I have seen sheep jumping them. They are usually only installed on roads. From plantladywithcfids at yahoo.ca Sun Aug 12 07:49:24 2007 From: plantladywithcfids at yahoo.ca (ANGIE) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:49:24 -0000 Subject: Goblet of fire game help Message-ID: Hello Has anyone in this group got the Goblet of Fire game. I have the PC version and am stuck on the second task. I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the shields. The mermaids keep getting the gilliweed. I can't get Harry to hold still to cast jinxes. It takes for ever to get through the grindylow and the trusses. It is driving me nuts. Can any one help? Hints, walk throughs, anything. You can email me off list if you like. thanks Angie From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Aug 12 14:10:44 2007 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:10:44 -0000 Subject: That pesky letter again! Was:Re: Of human errors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol wrote: > It is not, however, the continuity editor's job to point out the > improbability of a letter written to Sirius Black at another address > showing up at 12 GP. Annemehr: I found the long thread in Main on this question highly amusing, first of all because it seemed to me such an unimportant detail to generate so much consternation. But really, why *shouldn't* the letter be there? If Sirius was going to set up residence at 12 GP, why would he NOT want to have a bunch of his stuff -- clothes, books, and yes, letters -- from the place he got with his inheritance from Uncle Alphard? Granted, he may not have wanted to pick them up himself, in case the Ministry was monitoring the place, but Lupin would have gone -- and known what to take, as well. Of course, the other part of the letter question, being when and how Snape got to it, involves the whole (shaky?) plot question of who can get into 12GP and how. I suspect it all could have been greatly simplified, but that's one of the things I need to finish my reread to decide. Annemehr being too on-topic for OTC From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 14:28:31 2007 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:28:31 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Of human errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carol responds: > "May have been excusable"? That's very generous of you! Maybe you've > never misread a post or misremembered canon, but I think most of us > have done something similar and realize that we and our fellow posters > are all fallible. And I had hoped that my public apology for a blunder > would be accepted as well-intentioned rather than greeted by flames. > (I do know that Sandy was angry with JKR and misdirected her anger at > me. I forgive you, Sandy, and understand that you're human, too. And > you, too, Ali, even though I still find the assertion that my blunder > "*may* have been excusable" a bit much.) And you've just perfectly demonstrated why emotions are running so high on the main list right now. "May have" is something I use in daily speech all the time, and in an essay/press release/whatever, I would rephrase that sentence to "your blunder is perfectly excusable but..." or something akin to that. I did not here and now regret that because apparently, even on OTChatter, emotions are running high enough to where I should watch my phrasing since common speech won't be clear across emails. I guess I apologize for my unclear phrasing, but since I also thought that spending the entire email differentiating between professional & personal errors was clarification enough, you can take my apologies as you will. And I guess while I'm at it, I may as well just make apologies for any snarky undercurrents that may be detectable here; please just take my words as they are written. I just woke up, and I'm a grumpy morning person, even on a Sunday morning and with the promise of brunch on the way. ~Ali From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 12 15:44:46 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 12 Aug 2007 15:44:46 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/12/2007, 11:00 am Message-ID: <1186933486.13.2551.m50@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 12, 2007 11:00 am - 12:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Mhochberg at aol.com Sun Aug 12 17:20:20 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:20:20 EDT Subject: Of human errors Message-ID: Carol writes: Almost certainly the manuscript received what is referred to in the publishing business as a "light edit": Grammar, punctuation, spelling, minor consistency matters that can be corrected by referring to a style sheet, and in the U.S., Americanization of spelling, punctuation, and a few terms that might be misinterpreted by readers. ~~~ Mary writes: Whenever I read about copyediting, I think of a newsletter that I once edited. When I thought it was ready for printing, I would fax copies to 3 other people for to proof read. Inevitably, they each came back with one or more changes. The funny thing was: they almost never had the same changes! With 3 people and 2 changes each, that usually meant 6 changes for me. They almost never found the same error. ---Mary ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 12 17:41:08 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 12 Aug 2007 17:41:08 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/12/2007, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1186940468.53.85887.m53@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 12, 2007 1:00 pm - 1:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 12 18:16:10 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:16:10 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > "May have been excusable"? That's very generous of you! Maybe you've never misread a post or misremembered canon, but I think most of us have done something similar and realize that we and our fellow posters are all fallible. And I had hoped that my public apology for a blunder would be accepted as well-intentioned rather than greeted by flames. Ali responded: > And you've just perfectly demonstrated why emotions are running so high on the main list right now. > > "May have" is something I use in daily speech all the time, and in an essay/press release/whatever, I would rephrase that sentence to "your blunder is perfectly excusable but..." or something akin to that. I guess I apologize for my unclear phrasing, but since I also thought that spending the entire email differentiating between professional & personal errors was clarification enough, you can take my apologies as you will. > > And I guess while I'm at it, I may as well just make apologies for any snarky undercurrents that may be detectable here; please just take my words as they are written. I just woke up, and I'm a grumpy morning person, even on a Sunday morning and with the promise of brunch on the way. Carol responds: Here. Have a ginger newt. Carol, who really was trying to get the list to lighten up and still wants us to do so From catlady at wicca.net Sun Aug 12 20:40:58 2007 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:40:58 -0000 Subject: Bloody Baron/Silver/Tom Collins/Unmet Expectations/Kissing Gate/Cho Chang Message-ID: Hey, Carol, did I miss something in Chapter 31? Just because the Bloody Baron has a bad temper and a sword does not explain to me why he was the only being, alive or dead, of whom Peeves was afraid. Can a ghost sword (or being struck or stangled by a ghost hand) hurt or harm Peeves? If yes, is the Baron the only ghost who has a sword? I'd think ghosts could get swords wherever new members of the Headless Horsemen get their horses. I trust that now that Wormtail's silver hand has served its plot purpose, no one still insists that its purpose is to kill Lupin or Greyback. I fear that the underlying notion remains, that werewolves can be killed only by silver, even tho' I think that JKR was trying to show that that doesn't apply to Potterverse werewolves by specifying that the goblet that Lupin was holding at the first dinner at 12 Grimmauld Place in OoP was solid silver. Could Herself have specified in DH when Harry saw Lupin's corpse, that he had been killed by AK or whatever, not silver? Carol wrote in : << BTW, I once knew a man named Tom Collins whose girlfriend wouldn't marry him unless he took her last name because she associated his name with a cocktail. >> Refusing to marry a man because he shares his name with a cocktail, a fictional character, or a celebrity strikes me as irrational. It's not as if she refused to marry him and take his last name because it turned her name into something with which she was uncomfortable (quick example: she was Betty Osaka and he was Jimmy Boop) or if the names he wanted to give their hypothetical future children bothered her. Sandy wrote in : << All three of these expectations were met, yet I have a great deal of negative criticism for the book. The world, and the characters in it, that I thought I knew so well were turned inside-out and upside-down to the point that I no longer know who's on first. >> I am NOT trying to get personal, but it seems to me that some of your complaints ARE unfulfilled expectations. You could be more speciic about how the world and the characters were 'turned inside-out', but I think part of what you mean is that characters acted out-of-character. I think that indicates an unfillfulled expectation that the characters would act 'in character' according to your understanding of their characters. << She introduced plots and theories that, even after a second read, I still don't understand, and not understanding makes me feel stupid and I don't like that. >> I allow as how the plots and theories that are hard to understand are NOT an unfilled expectation, because I don't think I am playing games with words. If I were just playing word games, I could have said "You expected the plot to make sense". << She has made so many statements prior to the release of the book that turned out to be false, or that she managed to find a way to worm around. One example: Even in the wizarding world people don't come back from the dead, but then we get King' Cross. I felt like I was watching Dallas again. For many it is a matter of unfulfilled expectations. That is not the case for me. >> I think that complaining that it's the book's fault that it contradicts thing that Rowling said in RL indicates an expectation that the book will go according to those statements. I think that's a flaw in the statements rather than in the book -- probably many readers don't bother with groups like this or Mugglenet or The Leaky Cauldron or the Lexicon, they just read the books when they're released. I those readers experience only the books (and maybe later the movies) and therefore it doesn't bother them at all if the book contradicts something Rowling said in RL, and therefore the flaw is not IN the book. Carol wrote in : << Were any other non-British readers confused by "kissing gate"? I found a detailed definition, complete with a photo, which I founed very helpful at answers.com: .>> Your quotes from that article suggest that it is the same as the Kissing Gate article in Wikipedia that my friend printed out for me. While I was reading the chapter, I enountered the word 'kissing gate' and I didn't know what it meant, but by the time I stopped reading, I didn't remember that it was one of the things that I meant to look up. However, the word 'kissing gate' did remind me of the Kissing Bridge at Ren Faire (the toll is a kiss), which I have never understood: is there something in the historical Elizabethan period that inspired the Kissing Bridge? I looked it up and found only 18th-19th century covered bridges that were called kissing bridges because of the moment of privacy inside. Stacy wrote in : << (Secretly wishing Harry ended up with Cho Chang, for all the Asian fans out there) >> I'm not at all Asisan, but I always was a Harry/Cho, Ron/Susan Bones, Hermione/Ginny shipper ... I used to think Ginny would be helpful for Hermione's career in politics, that would begin in the opposition, an activist for non-humans' and part-humans' right, but culminate in Hermione becoming the first Muggle-born Minister of Magic. Then we found that Ginny hexes people in the halls for no particular reason and deliberately drove her broom into Zacharias Smith just because of his biased play-by-play of a match that Gryffindor *won*, which should have made the victorious players feel magnanimous. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 01:56:03 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:56:03 -0000 Subject: Bloody Baron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > Hey, Carol, did I miss something in Chapter 31? Just because the Bloody Baron has a bad temper and a sword does not explain to me why he was the only being, alive or dead, of whom Peeves was afraid. Can a ghost sword (or being struck or stangled by a ghost hand) hurt or harm Peeves? If yes, is the Baron the only ghost who has a sword? I'd think ghosts could get swords wherever new members of the Headless Horsemen get their horses. Carol: First, though this has nothing to do with your question, I saw the Baron primarily as a foil to Snape, who tried to save the woman he loved in contrast to the Baron, who murdered his beloved (and then killed himself)--contrasting Slytherins; contrasting reactions to obsessive love. As for Peeves, I think he was afraid of the Baron for exactly that reason; the Baron is the only ghost in the castle who had committed murder--rather like Bill Sikes, whom Fagin calls "a violent man, a very violent man." Even the students in the Baron's own House seem to be afraid of him, judging from Draco's initial reaciton in SS/PS. And evidently, he goes around groaning and clanking his chains like an apparition out of "A Christmas Carol." Altogether, he's the closest thing we get to a scary ghost in the HP books. I have no idea whether the Bloody Baron could actually hurt Peeves (who, after all, is just a spirit of mischief), but sometimes fear isn't related to logic, and logic isn't Peeves's strong point. Carol, who agrees that an immortal spirit of mischief probably wouldn't be afraid of anyone, living or dead, but thinks the Baron's being a murderer is all the explanation we're likely to get From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Aug 13 03:34:15 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 03:34:15 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread Message-ID: I know, this probably belongs at the other list, but I recognise more names over here. I just saw the OoP movie. It has to change the experience to see it for the first time after reading DH. I was teary-eyed every time the twins were on screen. The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- attractive. So much that I cried when he died. And I do not like Sirius Black one bit! Makes me wonder about the Rickman/Snape appeal that I've always denied influenced me. (Well, I've denied it influenced me very much.) My 13 year old son asked how I liked the movie. I said, "Not too much, but Sirius Black was hot." From his reaction, I don't think I should have said that. Lily's letter I was part of that thread. I think I took both sides, but no one seemed to read any previous posts so I wasn't caught. I came up with a very detailed explanation, that I actually liked for the letter and Snape's search for it. But the main reason I kept posting was that people would post that it was a stupid thing to have a thread about(or something along that line.) Not having enough time to read every post myself, I couldn't imagine why anyone would bother posting to a thread they didn't enjoy. Potioncat From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 04:54:39 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <611364.28638.qm@web60913.mail.yahoo.com> oooh I always found Sirius - hot but snape not a fan. Actually I've not liked that actor in any movie - well not in that manner. He's a very good character actor. Oldman I fell for in Dracula! Kinda helps no matter what character he plays ;) potioncat wrote: I know, this probably belongs at the other list, but I recognise more names over here. I just saw the OoP movie. It has to change the experience to see it for the first time after reading DH. I was teary-eyed every time the twins were on screen. The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- attractive. So much that I cried when he died. And I do not like Sirius Black one bit! Makes me wonder about the Rickman/Snape appeal that I've always denied influenced me. (Well, I've denied it influenced me very much.) My 13 year old son asked how I liked the movie. I said, "Not too much, but Sirius Black was hot." From his reaction, I don't think I should have said that. Lily's letter I was part of that thread. I think I took both sides, but no one seemed to read any previous posts so I wasn't caught. I came up with a very detailed explanation, that I actually liked for the letter and Snape's search for it. But the main reason I kept posting was that people would post that it was a stupid thing to have a thread about(or something along that line.) Not having enough time to read every post myself, I couldn't imagine why anyone would bother posting to a thread they didn't enjoy. Potioncat Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anita_hillin at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 17:39:14 2007 From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (anita_hillin) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:39:14 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie Message-ID: I will begin by saying I have not read any Neil Gaiman novels (due to inertia rather than lack of interest), so I went to see "Stardust" without any preconceived notions. We all loved the movie, and I'm now ready to read the source material. I hear that the movie contains several major departures, which is even more intriguing to me. If anyone who has read the book has also seen the movie, I'd be interested to hear your views. akh, who found Mark Williams howlingly funny as Billy (does that appear in the book?), and who was informed by her comic-book obsessed SO that Neil Gaiman started as a comic book writer From retired153 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 20:28:29 2007 From: retired153 at yahoo.com (retired153 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: From newyorker.com Message-ID: <17002404.1187036909647.JavaMail.websphere@scntdear02> (retired153 at yahoo.com) saw this on newyorker.com and thought you?d like to see it. An Inconvenient Documentary Click here: http://www.newyorker.com/services/referral?messageKey=f3daf9ea98f66830b91d74bf08b021a5 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mhochberg at aol.com Mon Aug 13 23:05:17 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:05:17 EDT Subject: That pesky letter again! Was:Re: Of human errors Message-ID: Annemehr writes: If Sirius was going to set up residence at 12 GP, why would he NOT want to have a bunch of his stuff -- clothes, books, and yes, letters -- from the place he got with his inheritance from Uncle Alphard? Granted, he may not have wanted to pick them up himself, in case the Ministry was monitoring the place, but Lupin would have gone -- and known what to take, as well. Of course, the other part of the letter question, being when and how Snape got to it, involves the whole (shaky?) plot question of who can get into 12GP and how. I suspect it all could have been greatly simplified, but that's one of the things I need to finish my reread to decide. ~~~~ This brings up a pet peeve of mine, not just from HP but from other books and movies also. When Sirius is sent to Azakaban, why doesn't ANYONE (Lupin, Dumbledore, anyone in the Order) contact him to get his side of the story? Let's see, I know, the all-knowing, all-wise, never erring, MOM got it right when they sent him there without a trial. Sarcasm aside, this is a plot device that I do not understand. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks. ---Mary ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From swartell at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 02:02:38 2007 From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:That pesky letter again! Was:Re: Of human errors Message-ID: <477058.50796.qm@web53207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: "Mhochberg at aol.com" ~~~~ This brings up a pet peeve of mine, not just from HP but from other books and movies also. When Sirius is sent to Azakaban, why doesn't ANYONE (Lupin, Dumbledore, anyone in the Order) contact him to get his side of the story? Let's see, I know, the all-knowing, all-wise, never erring, MOM got it right when they sent him there without a trial. Sarcasm aside, this is a plot device that I do not understand. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks. ---Mary I'm not at all sure my explanation will convince you, but here goes... Sirius was "obviously" guilty, not only to the MOM, but also to the Order and the wider wizarding world. He is from a very dark-wizard background. His brother was a known deatheater. His parents were pure-blood bigots. He was always in trouble, always causing trouble, always living on the edge. He was arrogant, and thought he was better than everyone else; rules didn't apply to him. There was a lot of hysteria, even after the night that Harry survived the first attack. One of the older characters says "You don't understand what it was like. Everyone was afraid." And frightened people are generally easy to fool - they want a simple answer, even if the question is quite complex. (My own observations of the world suggest to me that the more complex the situation, the more there is a craving for simple answers.) There were witnesses - many witnesses, and all agreed on what they saw - Sirius killed Peter and blasted another 13 people to death in the process. The Order knew there was a traitor in their midst. They were sure that Sirius had been the Secret Keeper. Even if they couldn't explain how he could have betrayed his best friend, neither could they explain away all the evidence. He was the only one who could have given the Potter's location away. He had killed a lot of people then laughed. He was clearly mad. Why look any deeper? Lupin says that he had suspected Sirius might be the traitor; Sirius says that he suspected Lupin. They might have been suspicious of Peter, but he had died bravely (the remaining members of the Order thought), confronting the traitor. Sirius knew better, but no one else knew that James had changed the secret keeper. And even if Sirius had been able to shout his story from the rooftops, who would have believed him. Lupin was willing to listen only because he had evidence that Peter was NOT dead. Dumbledore is not infallible, as he is quick to admit. Basically, I guess I don't find it improbable. Reprehensible, but not improbable. In a war, civil liberties are often among the casualties. Imprisonment without a trial... Ask Japanese-Americans from the 1940's. Sue ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From hecowan at islandnet.com Tue Aug 14 04:18:08 2007 From: hecowan at islandnet.com (hecowan) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 04:18:08 -0000 Subject: version differences - canadian vs us Message-ID: hello, i have just treated myself to book 7. recently i discovered that there appears to be a large difference in total pages - 176 - between the canadian version (mine) and the one i see listed on amazon.com. why might this be and how does it change the story. thank you for any information. hec From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 06:51:19 2007 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 06:51:19 -0000 Subject: version differences - canadian vs us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "hecowan" wrote: > > hello, > > i have just treated myself to book 7. > > recently i discovered that there appears to be a large difference in > total pages - 176 - between the canadian version (mine) and the one i > see listed on amazon.com. why might this be and how does it change > the story. > > thank you for any information. > hec > Tonks: I don't really know, but maybe it is just the size of the type. Is the type on your smaller maybe? Tonks_op From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 07:01:36 2007 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:01:36 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: <611364.28638.qm@web60913.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > potioncat wrote: > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- attractive. So much that I cried when he died. And I do not like Sirius Black one bit! Makes me wonder about the Rickman/Snape appeal that I've always denied influenced me. (Well, I've denied it influenced me very > much.) > Tonks: I noticed that about the actor who plays Black in this film too. When I saw him, I though, oh great now that they have made him really hot, they are going to kill him off! But I have seen this sort of thing happen in other films. It is something that Hollywood does to make the actor really sexy. I think they decide that it has to be this guy or another and they do something with the makeup and the lighting and the backgrond music to really appeal to that part of us that responds to the sex appeal of the opposite sex. Hollywood has that down to a science. I have been drawn to men in films that I would never find handsome on the street. It is all it the 'magic' of Hollywood. Tonks_op From heidi8 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 11:45:20 2007 From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:45:20 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1187091921.2ED0342D@bd12.dngr.org> >> potioncat wrote: > The real kicker was > that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- attractive. So > much that I cried when he died. And I do not like Sirius Black one > bit! > Tonks: > I noticed that about the actor who plays Black in this film too. > When I saw him, I though, oh great now that they have made him > really hot, they are going to kill him off! But I have seen this > sort of thing happen in other films. It is something that Hollywood > does to make the actor really sexy. Actually, as re Sirius, they were just looking to canon. Back in the archives of the Main List you can do a search for "dead sexy" and find a listee's summer, 2000 report of going to the launch for Book 4 and King's Cross, where said listee asked JkR if Sirius Black was meant to be "dead sexy", and jkr said yes. Heidi Http://www.fictionalley.org Where Creativity Is Magic From ladymela99 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 14:17:24 2007 From: ladymela99 at yahoo.com (Melanie) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <612883.79554.qm@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tonks wrote: Tonks: I noticed that about the actor who plays Black in this film too. When I saw him, I though, oh great now that they have made him really hot, they are going to kill him off! But I have seen this sort of thing happen in other films. It is something that Hollywood does to make the actor really sexy. I think they decide that it has to be this guy or another and they do something with the makeup and the lighting and the backgrond music to really appeal to that part of us that responds to the sex appeal of the opposite sex. Hollywood has that down to a science. I have been drawn to men in films that I would never find handsome on the street. It is all it the 'magic' of Hollywood. My reply: Am I the only straight woman on the planet that didn't think Gary Oldman was very attractive? At least, not in Harry Potter. ~Melanie --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 14:40:21 2007 From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Lambert) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: <612883.79554.qm@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <209378.10921.qm@web52711.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Melanie wrote: Am I the only straight woman on the planet that didn't think Gary Oldman was very attractive? At least, not in Harry Potter. ~Melanie ***Katie: Yep, I think you are. Man, those tattoos on the chest and those tortured eyes, the touseled hair and his lovely paternal attitude toward Harry...yeah, I liked that. Good stuff. : ) Of course, I like Gary Oldman usually, so not a big stretch for me. Katie . --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ladymela99 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 14:58:33 2007 From: ladymela99 at yahoo.com (Melanie) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: <209378.10921.qm@web52711.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <357681.73214.qm@web30011.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Melanie ***Katie: Yep, I think you are. Man, those tattoos on the chest and those tortured eyes, the touseled hair and his lovely paternal attitude toward Harry...yeah, I liked that. Good stuff. : ) Of course, I like Gary Oldman usually, so not a big stretch for me. Katie >> I loved him in the part. I mean I loved his paternal match with Harry and I love the bond that he created. Maybe I found him somewhat attractive. But the whole, unkempt part I was keen on. However, he looked so much better in Order than in Azkaban. ~Melanie --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From swartell at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 15:33:34 2007 From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: <612883.79554.qm@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85991.37202.qm@web53206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Melanie wrote: > > My reply: Am I the only straight woman on the > planet that didn't think Gary Oldman was very > attractive? At least, not in Harry Potter. > > ~Melanie Nope, you are not! I didn't find Sirius/Oldman remotely attractive, at least in any physical sense. His emotional connection to Harry was moving, but he was clearly a very damaged human being, and (to me) not at all appealing. I felt sympathy verging on pity for him, but that's a major turn-off to me. I don't find Gary Olman particularly good looking in the first place, and the grubbieness and general unkepmtness of Sirius makes him even less attractive in my eyes. In my mind's eye (compared to the screen), Sirius was much more "once handsome" but ravaged by Azkaban and his life on the run - I've never been able to see that in Oldman. (Note that I am not criticizing his acting - just commenting that I didn't find him attractive.) Sue ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 From bhobbs36 at verizon.net Tue Aug 14 16:08:37 2007 From: bhobbs36 at verizon.net (Belinda) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:08:37 -0000 Subject: version differences - canadian vs us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is not a huge difference in the text. As a matter of fact, we're finding very few differences at all! There were not many US/UK changes. The difference comes in the type size and spacing on the pages. The UK(and Canadian) versions have very small margins, and the US version has chapter artwork added, which accounts for the amount of words per page, and thus page count. BTW, the Canadian and UK versions are identical. Lexicon-Bel~ --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "hecowan" wrote: > > hello, > > i have just treated myself to book 7. > > recently i discovered that there appears to be a large difference in > total pages - 176 - between the canadian version (mine) and the one i > see listed on amazon.com. why might this be and how does it change > the story. > > thank you for any information. > hec > From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 18:34:00 2007 From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Katie) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:34:00 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) Message-ID: I really wanted to post this to the main list, but of course I would have been skewered by the List Elves, so here I am. I don't know about anyone else, but I am sooooo tired of some posts that are so hateful and so negative. Why are these people still here? Someone posted that they had been hating the Trio since OotP...why did you (general) keep reading?? I particularly do not comprehend why on earth you would spend time posting and arguing about a book/books you profess to loathe. And the posting has gone beyond, "JKR ain't the greatest writer." or "I really took exception to Harry using Crucio." Some of it has gotten quite mean and unpleasant. People seem to just be taking potshots at each other and the books/characters. And, it seems that often when someone tries to voice a positive opinion of the books, they are basically accused of "doing what JKR wanted them to do" or "thinking what you're supposed to think". I feel this overwhelming pressure to think exactly the opposite (of how they are presented) about every character. Like, Harry and Hermione are actually awful people...while the Malfoys are lovely people whom I'd like to holiday with. I just don't feel that way, and I feel like my opinion is really in the minority right now. If you (again, general) think JKR is a terrible writer, if you think Harry is a vile, ungrateful, indulged brat, and Hermione an evil mind- controlling wicked witch...if you think Dumbledore is a malicious and cold-hearted old crackpot, if you think the story doesn't work or has a nasty moral message...if you cannot find anything positive or enjoyable in these books...Why, oh why, are you still here??? I am IN NO WAY saying these books are beyond reproach. I find plenty of small stuff...and occasionally larger stuff...to criticize, and I enjoy debating those issues. But by and large, I love, love, love these books and these characters. I would not be here if I didn't love them, and if I didn't want to discuss them in depth. But there is a hugemungeous difference between discussion/debate, and just spewing victrol at each other and the books. I just am finding the main group less and less fun, and it's because the threads seem to be getting really negative and unpleasant. And I know that if I hated something, I sure wouldn't waste my time and effort writing about it. Like, I hate brussel sprouts, and I don't belong to a brussel sprouts discussion group. :) By the way, Potioncat's new thread about "One Moment" is a lovely breath of fresh air, and I thank her for that. Does anyone else feel as frustrated, or am I cracking up? Cheers, Katie From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 19:18:31 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:18:31 -0000 Subject: version differences - canadian vs us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Tonks" wrote: > > --- "hecowan" > wrote: > > > > hello, > > > > i have just treated myself to book 7. > > > > recently i discovered that there appears to be a > > large difference in total pages - 176 - between > > the canadian version (mine) and the one i see > > listed on amazon.com. > > > > Tonks: > > I don't really know, but maybe it is just the size > of the type. Is the type on your smaller maybe? > > Tonks_op > bboyminn: The USA versions use larger pages with wider margins and a larger font. Conversely, UK/Canada version use smaller pages with narrower margins and a font that is not only smaller vertically, but more compressed (letters closer together) on the horizontal. The Canadian publisher (Raincoast?) also proudly uses recycled and environmentally friendly paper. Just passing it along. Steve/BlueWizard From taguem at jmsearch.com Tue Aug 14 19:52:33 2007 From: taguem at jmsearch.com (Michelle Tague) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:52:33 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I feel frustrated as well?..I normally only read there? and am ALWAYS behind?but find that I?m deleting more and more posts because of people being SO negative there? This has been one of my favorite things in the last 6 years of my life ? I?m the most passionate of my friends regarding Potter?but don?t hold a candle to others? it?s amazing to me how fights are breaking out over fictional characters! Ones that I love very very much! Michelle Tague _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:34 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) I really wanted to post this to the main list, but of course I would have been skewered by the List Elves, so here I am. I don't know about anyone else, but I am sooooo tired of some posts that are so hateful and so negative. Why are these people still here? Someone posted that they had been hating the Trio since OotP...why did you (general) keep reading?? I particularly do not comprehend why on earth you would spend time posting and arguing about a book/books you profess to loathe. And the posting has gone beyond, "JKR ain't the greatest writer." or "I really took exception to Harry using Crucio." Some of it has gotten quite mean and unpleasant. People seem to just be taking potshots at each other and the books/characters. And, it seems that often when someone tries to voice a positive opinion of the books, they are basically accused of "doing what JKR wanted them to do" or "thinking what you're supposed to think". I feel this overwhelming pressure to think exactly the opposite (of how they are presented) about every character. Like, Harry and Hermione are actually awful people...while the Malfoys are lovely people whom I'd like to holiday with. I just don't feel that way, and I feel like my opinion is really in the minority right now. If you (again, general) think JKR is a terrible writer, if you think Harry is a vile, ungrateful, indulged brat, and Hermione an evil mind- controlling wicked witch...if you think Dumbledore is a malicious and cold-hearted old crackpot, if you think the story doesn't work or has a nasty moral message...if you cannot find anything positive or enjoyable in these books...Why, oh why, are you still here??? I am IN NO WAY saying these books are beyond reproach. I find plenty of small stuff...and occasionally larger stuff...to criticize, and I enjoy debating those issues. But by and large, I love, love, love these books and these characters. I would not be here if I didn't love them, and if I didn't want to discuss them in depth. But there is a hugemungeous difference between discussion/debate, and just spewing victrol at each other and the books. I just am finding the main group less and less fun, and it's because the threads seem to be getting really negative and unpleasant. And I know that if I hated something, I sure wouldn't waste my time and effort writing about it. Like, I hate brussel sprouts, and I don't belong to a brussel sprouts discussion group. :) By the way, Potioncat's new thread about "One Moment" is a lovely breath of fresh air, and I thank her for that. Does anyone else feel as frustrated, or am I cracking up? Cheers, Katie No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date: 8/13/2007 10:15 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date: 8/13/2007 10:15 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From n2fgc at arrl.net Tue Aug 14 20:29:04 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:29:04 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JMS00CD668WAMK0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Katie, Don't think you're cracking up...you're not the first to notice the--uh--tense atmosphere of the Main list. Technically, I am subbed there, but had a bad feeling about the traffic wash so I haven't read anything and just stayed here where the air is a bit clearer. :-) Cheers, Lee :-) (Who refuses to wear full armor in this heat!) :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From plantladywithcfids at yahoo.ca Wed Aug 15 00:06:04 2007 From: plantladywithcfids at yahoo.ca (ANGIE) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:06:04 -0000 Subject: version differences - canadian vs us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "hecowan" wrote: > > hello, > > i have just treated myself to book 7. > > recently i discovered that there appears to be a large difference in > total pages - 176 - between the canadian version (mine) and the one i > see listed on amazon.com. why might this be and how does it change > the story. > > thank you for any information. > hec > response from Angie: Actually it is not a difference from Canada and the USA there is 3 different books on the market. 1- the childrens version has no pictures and smaller type set, 607 pages, cheaper version running about $20.00 2- the adult version which has larger type set and pictures at the beginning of the chapters, 759 pages, middle priced at about $35.00 3- the deluxe version which has the larger type set and colored illustrations. 784 pages, most expensive at about $80.00 From jeopardy18 at comcast.net Wed Aug 15 02:00:54 2007 From: jeopardy18 at comcast.net (seanmulligan2000) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:00:54 -0000 Subject: Age statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "KathyK" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "seanmulligan2000" > wrote: > > > > What is my profile page? I just see an edit membership at the top > > of the screen. > > > > If you click on your Yahoo ID in one of your posts or click on 'my > account' at the top of the Yahoo page and enter your password, you can > get to your profile to edit it. Or, your profile is here: > http://profiles.yahoo.com/seanmulligan2000 > > I hope that's helpful. > > KathyK > Thanks From drdara at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 02:12:48 2007 From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: No subject Message-ID: <231383.83491.qm@web60713.mail.yahoo.com> I was just checking out this website to see when this author's latest book was coming out http://www.shannaswendson.com/ i thought the HP reference was cute, especially the plug for her own books lol ____________________________________________________________________________________ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From hpfgu.elves at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 02:30:01 2007 From: hpfgu.elves at gmail.com (hpfgu_elves) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:30:01 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Keeping OTC 'friendly and welcoming' Message-ID: Greetings From Hexquaters! As noted on the homepage of OTChatter, "we wish this area of the club to remain friendly and welcoming and so will step in if any thread appears to be veering in a contentious direction." Several recent threads at OTC offer opinions about the main list and groups of members posting on main. Insulting or attacking individual members or groups of members isn't permitted on any of our lists. If members wish to comment, ask questions, offer suggestions or discuss matters of list administration in a friendly and constructive manner, please join and post at our Feedback group, found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Feedback/ Or send a message to the owner mailbox here: HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com As always, this ADMIN can be discussed at the Feedback group or by dropping a note to the owner mailbox. Thanks, The List Elves From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Aug 15 02:30:48 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:30:48 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Katie" wrote: > I just am finding the main group less and less fun, and it's because > the threads seem to be getting really negative and unpleasant. And I > know that if I hated something, I sure wouldn't waste my time and > effort writing about it. Like, I hate brussel sprouts, and I don't > belong to a brussel sprouts discussion group. :) Potioncat: I like brussel sprouts and I wouldn't join a brussel sprouts discussion group! ;-) Well, I feel your pain. I see two things going on, but I haven't been reading all the posts or following all the threads. There are some long time members who are honestly disillusioned by DH. For whatever reason, it did not meet expectations. These are members who have spent a deal of time and thought on the series over the years; they are people who have written incredible posts, done research, debated carefully. So it saddens me to hear their disappointment. But in most cases, I'd rather they stay and make their case, than leave. I even agree with some of them--or to some extent. The other thing I've seen, that I don't recall seeing like this before (I've been a member of the main list for several years.) is members telling each other that they shouldn't be posting. Or that an thread shouldn't be continued. I think that as long as someone wants to discuss it, a topic is viable. It wouldn't make much sense to post if no one posted back. I've quickly stopped reading many current threads because of the negativity or because they've become repetitive. I generally read only those posts written by folk I know, unless I'm enjoying the thread. I can barely keep up doing that! There have always been trolls. (A troll is someone who comes to the list just to stir up trouble.) There have been some HP-fans who like to make mischief and will play devil's advocate for the fun of it. But now I think there's also a feeling of sadness in general that the last book has been written. I think it's coming out in how we respond to things. So, I'm trying to encourage you (collective you or is it impersonal you?) to stick with the main list. Even if it's just to dart in and out. > Katie: > By the way, Potioncat's new thread about "One Moment" is a lovely > breath of fresh air, and I thank her for that. Potioncat: oh, I think I'll come here more often! Thanks, I'm enjoying the way that one's playing out, too. From stacygalore at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 03:51:24 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:51:24 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: anita_hillin wrote: > > I will begin by saying I have not read any Neil Gaiman novels (due to > inertia rather than lack of interest), so I went to see "Stardust" > without any preconceived notions. > > We all loved the movie, and I'm now ready to read the source material. > I hear that the movie contains several major departures, which is > even more intriguing to me. > > If anyone who has read the book has also seen the movie, I'd be > interested to hear your views. > > akh, who found Mark Williams howlingly funny as Billy (does that > appear in the book?), and who was informed by her comic-book obsessed > SO that Neil Gaiman started as a comic book writer > Oh I LOVE Neil Gaiman!!! I'm dying to go see Stardust. I have an autographed hardcopy of the book. I highly recommend reading some of his graphic novels, especialy Sandman and Death. He also wrote a graphic novel called "Books of Magic" about a boy that has magical powers who remarkably resembles HP. I read the first issue a long time ago, before I caught on to the HP books. One of my best friends refused to read any of the HP books because he is convinced JKR ripped-off Neil Gaiman. I must say, the resemblance is striking. Check out this picture: http://www.chromewaves.net/images/interface/booksOfMagic.jpg Stacy From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 04:07:42 2007 From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:07:42 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Katie wrote: *major snip* > I just am finding the main group less and less fun, and it's because > the threads seem to be getting really negative and unpleasant. And I > know that if I hated something, I sure wouldn't waste my time and > effort writing about it. Like, I hate brussel sprouts, and I don't > belong to a brussel sprouts discussion group. :) > > By the way, Potioncat's new thread about "One Moment" is a lovely > breath of fresh air, and I thank her for that. > > Does anyone else feel as frustrated, or am I cracking up? Cheers, > Katie > Doddie here: I'm not frustrated--I've been one who has posted her anger in the past (Post HBP snape rants *blush*)... I think one of the reasons why so many posts are the way they are is because of grief.(remember the five stages of grief?) Denial (this isn't happening to me!) Anger (why is this happening to me?) Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...) Depression (I don't care anymore) Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes) and you can list examples of your own--but one of my lists ran like this.. Denial: sheesh I cannot believe Snape was in Harry's corner all this time...Another, response Pansy parkinson---typical Slytherin... Anger: What's with the long camping trip when so much was going on in the WW...or How dare Snape rifle through Harry's belongings and Grimauld place. Depression: Fred, NO! not dear Fred--when will George laugh again? Acceptance: I'm not quite there yet...while I know WHY Harry named his second son Albus Severus...I'd never name my kid Severus there must be some mistake..JKR must have been torn between Horace and Draco. LOL It's the end of many characters as well as the end of the series--none of us are at our best while grieving.. After the grief--wow, look out at this group--look at the post OOP commentary after the death of Sirius, or even after GOF after the death of Cedric, or even after the death of DD in HBP? With so many deaths in this book combined with the end of the series I'd imagine feelings of grief to be at an all time high. Anyhoo, I try to look at it this way so I don't get too caught up in heartfelt threads and when I do I write--but simply save my post to my drafts folder(and don't post until later or not at all)..I like to hear discussion/analysis/theories/predictions even a healthy debate is great..but I don't think we'll get the better debates until folks get through the stages..this entire series is so personal to many of us. BTW thanx potioncat for your thread..I had so many moments...just bought back so many great memories from the entire series not just DH. And thank you Katie for yours I think I may actually have an answer to your question. I hope it helps your understanding why and I could be wrong but I hope not. Doddiemoe, (who still gets teary eyed when she thinks of Dobby, but then remembers Kreacher--and wishes Kreacher had shown up with his copper pot, but is glad he bought a cleaver/knife! LOL) From stacygalore at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 04:07:59 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:07:59 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 05:13:50 2007 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <151111.80042.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Oooof! Trent Reznor! Never thought of him as Sirius, but now I will when I read! Thanks for the visual! He's quite the dark, sexy man. Looking forward to seeing Oldman as a handsome Sirius, though. Loved him in "Sid and Nancy", and especially sexy in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Found him rather drop dead in that one. Alex Hogan stacygalore wrote: potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 05:21:10 2007 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <778392.75754.qm@web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> HUGE Neil Gaiman fan here! I collected his graphic novels "Sandman" forever! Wonderful books about the Endless Family...Dream, Desire, Death (DiDi, my fave), Delerium,Destruction, etc, as a family with family dynamics. I was thrilled to find out "Stardust" was his! And HP has nothing to do with anything that Gaiman has ever done as far as I can tell. Alex Hogan stacygalore wrote: anita_hillin wrote: > > I will begin by saying I have not read any Neil Gaiman novels (due to > inertia rather than lack of interest), so I went to see "Stardust" > without any preconceived notions. > > We all loved the movie, and I'm now ready to read the source material. > I hear that the movie contains several major departures, which is > even more intriguing to me. > > If anyone who has read the book has also seen the movie, I'd be > interested to hear your views. > > akh, who found Mark Williams howlingly funny as Billy (does that > appear in the book?), and who was informed by her comic-book obsessed > SO that Neil Gaiman started as a comic book writer > Oh I LOVE Neil Gaiman!!! I'm dying to go see Stardust. I have an autographed hardcopy of the book. I highly recommend reading some of his graphic novels, especialy Sandman and Death. He also wrote a graphic novel called "Books of Magic" about a boy that has magical powers who remarkably resembles HP. I read the first issue a long time ago, before I caught on to the HP books. One of my best friends refused to read any of the HP books because he is convinced JKR ripped-off Neil Gaiman. I must say, the resemblance is striking. Check out this picture: http://www.chromewaves.net/images/interface/booksOfMagic.jpg Stacy --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi8 at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 11:22:27 2007 From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:22:27 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1187176946.C0E4DE8@fd9.dngr.org> > anita_hillin wrote: >> >> akh, who found Mark Williams howlingly funny as Billy (does that >> appear in the book?), and who was informed by her comic-book obsessed >> SO that Neil Gaiman started as a comic book writer Actually, he started as a journalist - and wrote a bio of Doug Adams & the Hitch-Hiker's Guide series back in 1986 or 1987. I have a copy of it that I used in a school paper circa 1987 and it's one of my prized books! I've been a fan of his ever since and it's one of the reasons my husband of 11 years wanted to date me when we first met - because I owned Gaiman's novel with Pratchett, Good Omens. From anita_hillin at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 13:40:08 2007 From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (anita_hillin) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:40:08 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: <778392.75754.qm@web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alex Hogan raved (in a good way): > > HUGE Neil Gaiman fan here! I collected his graphic novels "Sandman" forever! Wonderful books about the Endless Family...Dream, Desire, Death (DiDi, my fave), Delerium,Destruction, etc, as a family with family dynamics. [Chopped the rest of the interesting post] akh responds: These were the ones Bob (SO) knew about. I wouldn't be surprised if he owns them, since he's an obsessive comic book collector, and he includes graphic novels in that maniacal collecting. Of course, he has them stored in acid-free boxes, carefully placed in archive-approved plastic wrappers with rigid backers... > stacygalore gushed (as akh would about Jane Austen): > > Oh I LOVE Neil Gaiman!!! I'm dying to go see Stardust. I have an autographed hardcopy of the book. [snipped rest of post] akh, who has some gift credit on Amazon.com wonders: I was looking at the electronic copy of the book on Amazon.com, and the artwork looks lovely. I'm thinking about getting it, not least because of its art. There's also a paperback edition there, but I can't tell if it includes the same artwork. I should probably stick with the hard back edition. Did you meet Neil at a convention? I was looking on his website, and I noticed that he now lives in Minnesota. I was ruminating on how a Brit ends up in Minnesota, not that I have anything against it. I'm from the Midwest myself. akh, who can see how a Scot might not have problems with Minnesota winters, but thinks it could be a bit of a shock for a Londoner From taguem at jmsearch.com Wed Aug 15 14:34:09 2007 From: taguem at jmsearch.com (Michelle Tague) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:34:09 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fluer definitely for me? the way I imagined her was with hair more like Luna has in the movie? not the darker blond? and not that the actress isn?t pretty?but from the books, you expect the veela?s to be stunningly gorgeous. Have a great day! Michelle Tague _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stacygalore Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:08 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From taguem at jmsearch.com Wed Aug 15 14:35:27 2007 From: taguem at jmsearch.com (Michelle Tague) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:35:27 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: <151111.80042.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perfect casting!!! That?s more of how I pictured Sirius as well!!!! Have a great day! Michelle _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hogan Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:14 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread Oooof! Trent Reznor! Never thought of him as Sirius, but now I will when I read! Thanks for the visual! He's quite the dark, sexy man. Looking forward to seeing Oldman as a handsome Sirius, though. Loved him in "Sid and Nancy", and especially sexy in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Found him rather drop dead in that one. Alex Hogan stacygalore wrote: potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy ------------------------------------ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From maritajan at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 14:43:12 2007 From: maritajan at yahoo.com (MJ) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: casting Sirius In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <475510.36082.qm@web36808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Before PoA was cast, I always pictured Sirius as Christian Bale. He's also English, btw, although I think he's lived in the states for a long time. To me, he could completely capture how good looking Sirius was, and how wasted he became in Azkaban. If you ever saw him in "The Machineist," you'll know what I mean. Anyway...that's my Sirius. I love Gary Oldman and I especially liked him in Phoenix, but he wasn't my picture of Sirius. MJ Michelle Tague wrote: Perfect casting!!! That?s more of how I pictured Sirius as well!!!! Have a great day! Michelle _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hogan Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:14 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread Oooof! Trent Reznor! Never thought of him as Sirius, but now I will when I read! Thanks for the visual! He's quite the dark, sexy man. Looking forward to seeing Oldman as a handsome Sirius, though. Loved him in "Sid and Nancy", and especially sexy in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Found him rather drop dead in that one. Alex Hogan stacygalore "mailto:stacygalore%40yahoo.com"stacygalore at -yahoo.com> wrote: potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy ------------------------------------ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them! http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2 Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/maritajan --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From maritajan at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 14:44:23 2007 From: maritajan at yahoo.com (MJ) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <710570.14212.qm@web36806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> But, the movie didn't even mention the Veela connection. It will be intersting to see what they do with some of these characters for HBP and DH, you know? Fleur and Bill are fairly important, if minor, roles in both. MJ Michelle Tague wrote: Fluer definitely for me the way I imagined her was with hair more like Luna has in the movie not the darker blond and not that the actress isn?t pretty but from the books, you expect the veela?s to be stunningly gorgeous. Have a great day! Michelle Tague _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stacygalore Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:08 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them! http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2 Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/maritajan --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 15:36:32 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: casting Sirius In-Reply-To: <475510.36082.qm@web36808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <118125.12826.qm@web60925.mail.yahoo.com> Christian Bale isn't old enough - tho definately HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay gotta go watch Batman Begins!!! MJ wrote: Before PoA was cast, I always pictured Sirius as Christian Bale. He's also English, btw, although I think he's lived in the states for a long time. To me, he could completely capture how good looking Sirius was, and how wasted he became in Azkaban. If you ever saw him in "The Machineist," you'll know what I mean. Anyway...that's my Sirius. I love Gary Oldman and I especially liked him in Phoenix, but he wasn't my picture of Sirius. MJ Michelle Tague wrote: Perfect casting!!! That?s more of how I pictured Sirius as well!!!! Have a great day! Michelle _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hogan Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:14 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread Oooof! Trent Reznor! Never thought of him as Sirius, but now I will when I read! Thanks for the visual! He's quite the dark, sexy man. Looking forward to seeing Oldman as a handsome Sirius, though. Loved him in "Sid and Nancy", and especially sexy in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Found him rather drop dead in that one. Alex Hogan stacygalore "mailto:stacygalore%40yahoo.com"stacygalore at -yahoo.com> wrote: potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy ------------------------------------ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them! http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2 Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/maritajan --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From maritajan at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 15:50:09 2007 From: maritajan at yahoo.com (MJ) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: casting Sirius In-Reply-To: <118125.12826.qm@web60925.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <337625.87948.qm@web36802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> But really....he is. Harry's parents and Sirius and Lupin as written are much younger than Gary Oldman is. They'd be early 30s when Harry goes to Hogwarts. That was actually one problem I had with the casting of Lupin and Sirius. They're just too old. I guess I have to grudgingly throw in Rickman, too, but I cannot see anyone else as Snape, so age is irrelevant in that case. (IMO) MJ Julie Borgmann wrote: Christian Bale isn't old enough - tho definately HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay gotta go watch Batman Begins!!! MJ wrote: Before PoA was cast, I always pictured Sirius as Christian Bale. He's also English, btw, although I think he's lived in the states for a long time. To me, he could completely capture how good looking Sirius was, and how wasted he became in Azkaban. If you ever saw him in "The Machineist," you'll know what I mean. Anyway...that's my Sirius. I love Gary Oldman and I especially liked him in Phoenix, but he wasn't my picture of Sirius. MJ Michelle Tague wrote: Perfect casting!!! That?s more of how I pictured Sirius as well!!!! Have a great day! Michelle _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hogan Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:14 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Just saw the movie and the letter thread Oooof! Trent Reznor! Never thought of him as Sirius, but now I will when I read! Thanks for the visual! He's quite the dark, sexy man. Looking forward to seeing Oldman as a handsome Sirius, though. Loved him in "Sid and Nancy", and especially sexy in "Bram Stoker's Dracula". Found him rather drop dead in that one. Alex Hogan stacygalore "mailto:stacygalore%40yahoo.com"stacygalore at -yahoo.com> wrote: potioncat wrote: > snip > The real kicker was that I found this movie's Oldman/Black very--very-- > attractive. snip I always imagined Sirius to be sexy in a dark, tortured way. Before the films (and even now), I would read the book and picture Sirius as Trent Reznor (singer of Nine Inch Nails). When I saw Oldman in PoA, I was disappointed in the way he looked and the direction he took the character. I have always found Gary Oldman to be a very good-looking man (ever since "Sid and Nancy"), but didn't really think so in the HP films. Maybe because I was hoping they would cast somebody who looked like Trent Reznor, who I find much more attractive than Oldman. I also was disappointed by Ginny, Fleur, and Cho - the actresses who play them are very beautiful in real life, but in the films, they look very plain. Stacy ------------------------------------ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them! http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2 Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/maritajan --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/maritajan --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From stacygalore at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 03:38:38 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:38:38 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter Message-ID: The thread about Stardust got me thinking about Neil Gaiman and his graphic novel "Books of Magic". I haven't read it in a long time, several years before reading Harry Potter. A good friend of mine refused to read Harry Potter because he was convinced JKR ripped off Neil Gaiman. Has anybody heard of this theory? I think it is just a coincidence. But I'm curious to know what other people think about the similarities: young boy who does magic, has dark hair and glasses, owns an owl. To be honest, I can't even remember any of the plotlines of "Books of Magic" since it has been so long since I read it. I don't know if there are other similarities. From stacygalore at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 03:44:19 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:44:19 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: snip > Did you meet Neil at a convention? I was looking on his website, and > I noticed that he now lives in Minnesota. I was ruminating on how a > Brit ends up in Minnesota, not that I have anything against it. I'm > from the Midwest myself. snip I met Neil Gaiman at a reading and book signing in New York City several years back. Not sure how he ended up in Minnesota, but my guess is that it has to do with his girlfriend or wife. Stacy From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 03:48:55 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:48:55 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: <612883.79554.qm@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Melanie wrote: Am I the only straight woman on the planet that didn't think Gary Oldman was very attractive? At least, not in Harry Potter. Carol responds: I'm not sure whether it's fair for me to chime in here since I'm not a Sirius fan, but I don't think that Gary Oldman is sexy, either. Dapper in this film, and much more attractive without the bad teeth they gave him in PoA, but not handsome, Imo, and without whatever it is about Rickman!Snape that's so appealing. I did like him as a character better than I do in the books, though. He was more supportive of Harry and less arrogant and self-obsessed. So Harry's grief (also played down?) was more understandable to a movie goer than it might have been if they'd shown him as JKR depicted him, but the death scene also lost some of its impact without the cousins taunting each other. Or maybe I just need to see it a second time as I could have missed a few details. Anyway, give me Snape in any shape or form and Rickman over Oldman, but that's just me. Carol, letting you know that you're not the only one From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 03:57:39 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:57:39 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michelle Tague wrote: > > I feel frustrated as well ..I normally only read there and am ALWAYS behind but find that I'm deleting more and more posts because of people being SO negative there This has been one of my favorite things in the last 6 years of my life I'm the most passionate of my friends regarding Potter but don't hold a candle to others it's amazing to me how fights are breaking out over fictional characters! Ones that I love very very much! Carol responds: Just a suggestion. if you read from the main site rather than your e-mail, you can skip the posters who annoy you without having to delete anything. Keeps the mailbox uncluttered, too. Carol, hoping that JKR has the courage and self-confidence to ignore all the venom being spewed at her for writing her own book and not what some readers wanted her to produce From bboyminn at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 07:16:52 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:16:52 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "stacygalore" wrote: > > The thread about Stardust got me thinking about Neil > Gaiman and his graphic novel "Books of Magic". ... > A good friend of mine refused to read Harry Potter > because he was convinced JKR ripped off Neil Gaiman. > Has anybody heard of this theory? ... > bboyminn: Well, let's see. Harry Potter has magic; Lord of the Rings (LotR) has magic. Harry Potter has wizards, LotR has wizards. Harry Potter has elves, LotR has elves. Harry Potter goes on a quest, Frodo goes on a quest. So, Harry Potter must have ripped off LotR? Believe me there are thousands who believe this is true. But then there are hundreds of books that use those same themes. In fact, those themes go back many hundreds of years. Perhaps even a 1,000 years or more. So exactly who ripped off who? The point is that Tolkien did not invent Elves or wizards any more than JKR or Gaiman did. Further, there are some things that you are allowed to steal. Most authors steal to some extent from others. But there is a difference between using the same concept, and actually stealing the story and characters. So, I guess my point is that there are some things that can be legally 'stolen'. Since there hasn't been a lawsuit by Gaiman, I suspect he doesn't feel like he was ripped off. If the author doesn't think so, I don't see why your friend should think so. For what it's worth. Steve/bboyminn From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Aug 16 09:36:23 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 05:36:23 -0400 Subject: Movie 5 Soundtrack Message-ID: <0JMV000HA1CSBE41@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> How many of you raised your eyebrows at the track titled "Ministry Of Music?" Duh--is there a serious misprint here? Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From miamibarb at comcast.net Thu Aug 16 11:02:54 2007 From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara Roberts) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:02:54 -0400 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) Message-ID: <48b23e64fc142fbe6094416a8ab95299@comcast.net> I noticed that the tone of the list changed (in different ways) after the last two books. (After the last book especially, I felt the quality of posts went down). Snape "may be a gift of a character," but the many, many posts about him were redundant. And perhaps as the series was nearing completion, it was harder for posters to be creative and speculative. We knew too many of the answers. There was corresponding need too for posters to be more analytical and fair then before. Apparently this is as difficult for muggles as it is for wizards. Also the floods of posts from new people. A few of theses were good, but many were uniformed. From jnferr at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 12:29:00 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 07:29:00 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: References: <778392.75754.qm@web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8ee758b40708160529v766b193au37df25ea17ea1538@mail.gmail.com> > > Did you meet Neil at a convention? I was looking on his website, and > I noticed that he now lives in Minnesota. I was ruminating on how a > Brit ends up in Minnesota, not that I have anything against it. I'm > from the Midwest myself. > > akh, who can see how a Scot might not have problems with Minnesota > winters, but thinks it could be a bit of a shock for a Londoner montims: actually, as a Brit (ex-Londoner) who lives in Minnesota and works in Minneapolis, I am happy to say there is a large expat British community here, and they all love the area. What's not to love? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From marion11111 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 13:58:46 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:58:46 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > > --- "stacygalore" wrote: > > > > The thread about Stardust got me thinking about Neil > > Gaiman and his graphic novel "Books of Magic". ... > > A good friend of mine refused to read Harry Potter > > because he was convinced JKR ripped off Neil Gaiman. > > Has anybody heard of this theory? ... > > > > bboyminn: > > Well, let's see. Harry Potter has magic; Lord of the > Rings (LotR) has magic. Harry Potter has wizards, > LotR has wizards. Harry Potter has elves, LotR has > elves. Harry Potter goes on a quest, Frodo goes on a > quest. So, Harry Potter must have ripped off LotR? (SNIP) > So, I guess my point is that there are some things > that can be legally 'stolen'. Since there hasn't > been a lawsuit by Gaiman, I suspect he doesn't feel > like he was ripped off. If the author doesn't think > so, I don't see why your friend should think so. > marion11111: Well, to be fair, Stacy's friend is allowed an opinion and it's a reasonable point of discussion to look for an author's influences. I've been looking for and can't find the review of DH that stated JKR "steals from the best" and then complimented her on putting it all together in interesting ways. I've noticed a number of places in the series where I "see" images from movies. Many have commented on "Dirty Harry" facing off Voldemort and of course, Molly doing a bit from Aliens. In HBP, I kept picturing several scenes from the LOTR movies in the cave scene. And if anyone has ever seen the old (early-mid1980's) BBC production of Worst Witch, Diane Keaton is a female Snape, Tim Curry does a Lockhart and there is even a little girl Draco to torment our heroine. The comparison is too close to be coincidence. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that an author has seen or read things throughout her life and those images sneak out when she's writing. I would imagine that the creators of the originals don't bother to cry theft for the very reasons you mention (who "owns" the idea of elves, dragons or magic rings?) and because they themselves are successful and content. From anita_hillin at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 15:16:07 2007 From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (AnitaKH) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Stardust, the movie Message-ID: <561709.53351.qm@web55112.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Stacy, that sounds even better than a convention. I imagine you're right; Neil probably went to Minnesota for personal reasons and has just stayed. One certainly doesn't have to live on either coast to write. Thanks for the extra information, Heidi. I think Bob's actual words were, "He was a comic book writer first," which I took to mean his first job. I'm sure Bob would deny giving me wrong information! We talked yesterday (he's been deported back to Canada - long story) and he does, indeed, have the Sandman series, along with another collection, the name of which escapes me, but it was compiled into a book. While we were on the phone, he talked me into ordering "Stardust," so I should be getting it the week of August 27. Yea! He had the audacity to say, "This'll get you into something else, so you won't read Harry Potter for the 20th time." As if... akh, who didn't need much convincing to order the book (and kept trying to say Bob was "exported") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From annemehr at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 15:33:38 2007 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:33:38 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Melanie wrote: > > Am I the only straight woman on the planet that didn't think Gary > Oldman was very attractive? At least, not in Harry Potter. > Carol responds: > I'm not sure whether it's fair for me to chime in here since I'm not a > Sirius fan, but I don't think that Gary Oldman is sexy, either. > Anyway, give me Snape in any shape or form and Rickman over Oldman, > but that's just me. Annemehr: J.a.s.o.n. I.s.a.a.c.s. Which is why I was *seriously* disappointed that in the big fight scene they spent most of their time as vapor. Oldman and Sirius do nothing for me. I did like Rickman in the first movie, but since then he's just looked doughey and has had no intensity. Annemehr, who thinks Lucius Malfoy is slime but would take Jason in his wig and leather any day From snapes_witch at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 18:32:01 2007 From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:32:01 -0000 Subject: Movie 5 Soundtrack In-Reply-To: <0JMV000HA1CSBE41@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force" wrote: > > How many of you raised your eyebrows at the track titled "Ministry Of > Music?" Duh--is there a serious misprint here? > > Cheers, > > Lee :-) > ??? Mine says 'Ministry of Magic." Snape's witch From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 21:29:59 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:29:59 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: <48b23e64fc142fbe6094416a8ab95299@comcast.net> Message-ID: Barbara Roberts wrote: > > I noticed that the tone of the list changed (in different ways) after the last two books. (After the last book especially, I felt the quality of posts went down). Snape "may be a gift of a character," but the many, many posts about him were redundant. Carol responds: Ah, well. Snape is the character who aroused the strongest emotions in the series and whose loyalties were the longest-standing mystery. The main plot and chief subplot of HBP involve him (he's the eponymous character of the subtitle) and the first chapter of DH focuses on him as well. Harry's epiphany involving Snape is central to the self-sacrifice Harry has to make. It's really no mystery why so many posts still focus on him and why so many readers are still fascinated by him, either before or after DH. If you don't like Snape or aren't interested in him, you can always skip those threads. (Unfortunately, we posters keep forgetting to change the subject line when the topic shifts, so a post with Snape in the title may not be about Snape at all and vice versa.) I personally think that the quality of the posts "went down" after DH, when most of us were too overwhelmed by our emotional reactions to look at the books analytically, but perhaps that's least evident in the Snape threads. (I saw it most in the threads expressing disappointment in JKR's handling of Slytherin House and the supposed broken promise of "House unity.") A lot of posters were and remain bitterly disappointed with the books. Others of us are trying to discuss them with a reasonable degree of objectivity and to present canon-based arguments. I'll never get tired of Snape, but I'm certainly tired of whining generalizations with no canon support. All I really want is for those who are lambasting JKR and DH to sit back, take a deep breath, and reread DH for what she wrote rather than what she "failed" to write. Carol, who would find HPfGu a less interesting place without the frequent discussions of Snape From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 21:36:11 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:36:11 -0000 Subject: Baba Yaga question Message-ID: I caught a reference to Baba Yaga in one of Alla's posts to the main list, and it reminded me of a question I had regarding "The Tales of Beedle the Bard." Did anyone else think that possibly "Babbitty Rabbitty and the Cackling Stump" was a kind of parodic allusion to the Baba Yaga stories of Russian folklore? Carol, just curious to see whether anyone else had the same reaction From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Aug 17 03:23:48 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:23:48 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Carol responds: > > I'm not sure whether it's fair for me to chime in here since I'm not a > > Sirius fan, but I don't think that Gary Oldman is sexy, either. > > > > Anyway, give me Snape in any shape or form and Rickman over Oldman, > > but that's just me. Potioncat: I agree! (and I'm the one who started this thread.) It was Sirius's hair. I loved his hair. > > > Annemehr: > J.a.s.o.n. I.s.a.a.c.s. Which is why I was *seriously* disappointed > that in the big fight scene they spent most of their time as vapor. > > Oldman and Sirius do nothing for me. I did like Rickman in the first > movie, but since then he's just looked doughey and has had no intensity. > > Annemehr, > who thinks Lucius Malfoy is slime but would take Jason in his wig and > leather any day Potioncat: Yes, yes and yes. Isaacs was serious eye-candy. I'm sorry he'll have to be such a cringing character in DH---unless of course they re- write his scenes for the movie. It's really odd about Rickman!Snape, because Rickman doesn't look bad in his other movies. From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 05:22:56 2007 From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:22:56 -0000 Subject: "High School Musical" In-Reply-To: <787729.83595.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Channel surfing tonight I landed on a re-run of "High School Musical" and it reminded me that I never did get back to the thread I started here a few months back. So...better late than never? Based partly on y'all's encouragement, I did get my hands on the DVD and found the musical to be pretty easy to enjoy. I didn't enjoy it the way that I enjoyed the latest musical I saw on DVD (that'd be "Moulin Rouge!") but I am planning on watching the debut of "High School Musical 2" tomorrow night. I have no idea who's on crew yet so I've no idea if I'll get offered a job working on my community theater's production but if you live in the Bay Area (San Francisco) and want to know more, drop me a line at PenapartElf AT aol.com before the show is scheduled to open third week of September. I'm curious to know: if you liked this musical but never liked other musicals, what made the difference for you? Petra a n :) From jeanico2000 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 13:25:45 2007 From: jeanico2000 at yahoo.com (jeanico2000) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:25:45 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Katie: actually, I totally feel the same way you do. I'm no longer visiting the main list for those very reasons. The negative threads are choking out all the positive ones... and there is just too much negative (a bit like devil's snare gone rampant). it's no longer fun to go there, IMHO. Best, Nicole --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Katie" wrote: > > I really wanted to post this to the main list, but of course I would > have been skewered by the List Elves, so here I am. > > I don't know about anyone else, but I am sooooo tired of some posts > that are so hateful and so negative. Why are these people still here? > Someone posted that they had been hating the Trio since OotP...why > did you (general) keep reading?? > > I particularly do not comprehend why on earth you would spend time > posting and arguing about a book/books you profess to loathe. > > And the posting has gone beyond, "JKR ain't the greatest writer." > or "I really took exception to Harry using Crucio." Some of it has > gotten quite mean and unpleasant. People seem to just be taking > potshots at each other and the books/characters. > > And, it seems that often when someone tries to voice a positive > opinion of the books, they are basically accused of "doing what JKR > wanted them to do" or "thinking what you're supposed to think". I > feel this overwhelming pressure to think exactly the opposite (of how > they are presented) about every character. Like, Harry and Hermione > are actually awful people...while the Malfoys are lovely people whom > I'd like to holiday with. I just don't feel that way, and I feel like > my opinion is really in the minority right now. > > If you (again, general) think JKR is a terrible writer, if you think > Harry is a vile, ungrateful, indulged brat, and Hermione an evil mind- > controlling wicked witch...if you think Dumbledore is a malicious and > cold-hearted old crackpot, if you think the story doesn't work or has > a nasty moral message...if you cannot find anything positive or > enjoyable in these books...Why, oh why, are you still here??? > > I am IN NO WAY saying these books are beyond reproach. I find plenty > of small stuff...and occasionally larger stuff...to criticize, and I > enjoy debating those issues. But by and large, I love, love, love > these books and these characters. I would not be here if I didn't > love them, and if I didn't want to discuss them in depth. But there > is a hugemungeous difference between discussion/debate, and just > spewing victrol at each other and the books. > > I just am finding the main group less and less fun, and it's because > the threads seem to be getting really negative and unpleasant. And I > know that if I hated something, I sure wouldn't waste my time and > effort writing about it. Like, I hate brussel sprouts, and I don't > belong to a brussel sprouts discussion group. :) > > By the way, Potioncat's new thread about "One Moment" is a lovely > breath of fresh air, and I thank her for that. > > Does anyone else feel as frustrated, or am I cracking up? Cheers, > Katie > From maritajan at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 14:25:15 2007 From: maritajan at yahoo.com (MJ) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <231275.35772.qm@web36801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I read the main list in daily digest form, and I'm behind (as usual), but I've noticed the same thing even from where I am (somewhere in the first week of August). I solve the problem by skipping the posts from the people who are so negative. The incredibly sad thing for me personally is that several of the ones I no longer read were also the posters I used to enjoy so much. It's hard to reconcile the abrupt 180 in tone, but . . . there you have it. This policy does have an unintended benefit of making my reading move faster, but I'd rather slow down if it meant a return to the previous attitude. Everyone is entitled to share their opinions. I choose to no longer read those that focus on what they see as major moral flaws and nothing else. It still saddens me, though. MJ ------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/maritajan --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anita_hillin at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 16:23:35 2007 From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (anita_hillin) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:23:35 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708160529v766b193au37df25ea17ea1538@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette wrote, in response to my ponderings about Brits loving Minnesota: > >> actually, as a Brit (ex-Londoner) who lives in Minnesota and works in > Minneapolis, I am happy to say there is a large expat British community > here, and they all love the area. What's not to love? > akh explains: I personally like Minneapolis a lot, but then I'm from Kansas originally, so the culture (and the cold weather) is pretty familiar. I was just thinking about the weather adjustment, based on my SO's reaction to Chicago, having come from Edmonton. I couldn't believe the first time he complained about the winters; how could Chicago possibly be worse than Edmonton?!? However, he wasn't used to the comparatively high humidity, which bothered him much more than temps and snow. Thinking about the relatively moderate climate in London, I thought it might be a bit of an adjustment to get used to large amounts of snow and sub-zero temps. At any rate, I can fully see that Minneapolis could be a very intellectually stimulating community with the educational institutions and the vibrant arts community. akh, who realizes that she may have sounded disparaging of Minneapolis, but couldn't possibly dislike the home of the largest shopping mall in the United States! From jnferr at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 17:49:54 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:49:54 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: References: <8ee758b40708160529v766b193au37df25ea17ea1538@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8ee758b40708171049v521a7826g3d7ad8b68e1b833b@mail.gmail.com> > > akh explains: > > I personally like Minneapolis a lot, but then I'm from Kansas > originally, so the culture (and the cold weather) is pretty familiar. > I was just thinking about the weather adjustment, based on my SO's > reaction to Chicago, having come from Edmonton. I couldn't believe > the first time he complained about the winters; how could Chicago > possibly be worse than Edmonton?!? However, he wasn't used to the > comparatively high humidity, which bothered him much more than temps > and snow. > > Thinking about the relatively moderate climate in London, I thought it > might be a bit of an adjustment to get used to large amounts of snow > and sub-zero temps. > > At any rate, I can fully see that Minneapolis could be a very > intellectually stimulating community with the educational institutions > and the vibrant arts community. > > akh, who realizes that she may have sounded disparaging of > Minneapolis, but couldn't possibly dislike the home of the largest > shopping mall in the United States! montims: I was probably too brusque earlier, logging in from work then (as now...). As far as climate goes, I love it... even when there are feet of snow, the sky is blue and clear... I spent 10 years in Tuscany, and adored it, then returned to England for 5 years (South Yorkshire) before moving to America, and I hated the English climate - too grey, too samey, etc. I found the constant low clouds very oppressive, and I actually became quite depressed by the weather as well as other facets of living in Yorkshire where I did, and couldn't wait to leave England for good. Here, the colours are brighter, you have all 4 seasons, and the sky is frequently blue. Add that to the arts (and yes the MoA!) and it is almost perfect... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jlnbtr at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 22:59:17 2007 From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:59:17 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ever since PoA came out (the book) I fell in LOVE with Sirius, I absolutely adore him flawed as he is. When the PoA movie came out, I was hugely disapointed with Gary Oldman, his acting skills are great, but he is no Sirius. In OoP Sirius is supposed to be around 35, Oldman looks 50. I guess Azkaban made Sirius age a bit, but not 15 extra years. Then there was the GoF movie, I was expecting to see a better looking Sirius, in the book he's described as looking better (when talking to Harry via-floo), but all we got were some weird images. Then cmae OoP, and there was a slight shadow of the 'right' Sirius, didn't like the moustache though, but he was sexy enough, not Sirius-sexy, but a dab better. Someone mentioned earlier Christan Bale, when Batman Begins came out, I thought he could make a great Sirius, make up could have added a few years. As for Alan Rickman, he IS Snape. When I picture Snape in my head I see Rickman. Nothing like that happens to any other characters, they all look different in my head. A few years ago there was a thread on Sexy Snape, I posted, I think, about a zillion times, he is dead sexy, and so is Rickman. Juli - wandering where she could find a real life Sirius From snapes_witch at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 23:58:49 2007 From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:58:49 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie and the letter thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > > It's really odd about Rickman!Snape, because Rickman doesn't look bad > in his other movies. > Just my personal opinion of course, but I suspect he was so yummy in the first movie that he's been deliberately uglified (if there is such a word) in the later ones. Snape's Witch From stacygalore at yahoo.com Sat Aug 18 05:05:51 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:05:51 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > > --- "stacygalore" wrote: > > > > The thread about Stardust got me thinking about Neil > > Gaiman and his graphic novel "Books of Magic". ... > > A good friend of mine refused to read Harry Potter > > because he was convinced JKR ripped off Neil Gaiman. > > Has anybody heard of this theory? ... > > > > bboyminn: > > Well, let's see. Harry Potter has magic; Lord of the > Rings (LotR) has magic. Harry Potter has wizards, > LotR has wizards. Harry Potter has elves, LotR has > elves. Harry Potter goes on a quest, Frodo goes on a > quest. So, Harry Potter must have ripped off LotR? > Believe me there are thousands who believe this is > true. > > But then there are hundreds of books that use those > same themes. In fact, those themes go back many > hundreds of years. Perhaps even a 1,000 years or more. > So exactly who ripped off who? > > The point is that Tolkien did not invent Elves or > wizards any more than JKR or Gaiman did. Further, > there are some things that you are allowed to steal. > Most authors steal to some extent from others. But > there is a difference between using the same concept, > and actually stealing the story and characters. > > So, I guess my point is that there are some things > that can be legally 'stolen'. Since there hasn't > been a lawsuit by Gaiman, I suspect he doesn't feel > like he was ripped off. If the author doesn't think > so, I don't see why your friend should think so. > > For what it's worth. > Steve/bboyminn Stacy here: I should forward this to my friend. Maybe your words will convince him that he's being silly, and coax him to read the books. I keep telling him he's really missing out on some wonderful stuff. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Aug 18 18:40:25 2007 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:40:25 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jlnbtr" wrote: > > Juli - wandering where she could find a real life Sirius > Meaning his personality? I would imagine that extreme-sports atheletes have the same thrill-seeking-ness; you could search among them for one is as super-loyal to his friends, and protective of his godson. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Sat Aug 18 19:30:04 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:30:04 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "stacygalore" wrote: > > --- "Steve" wrote: > > > > --- "stacygalore" wrote: > >> > >> The thread about Stardust got me thinking about > >> Neil Gaiman and his graphic novel "Books of > >> Magic". ... A good friend of mine refused to > >> read Harry Potter because he was convinced JKR > >> ripped off Neil Gaiman. Has anybody heard of > >> this theory? ... > > > > > > > bboyminn: > > > > Well, let's see. Harry Potter has magic; Lord of the > > Rings (LotR) has magic. Harry Potter has wizards, > > LotR has wizards. Harry Potter has elves, LotR has > > elves. Harry Potter goes on a quest, Frodo goes on a > > quest. So, Harry Potter must have ripped off LotR? > > Believe me there are thousands who believe this is > > true. > > > > ... Since there hasn't > > been a lawsuit by Gaiman, I suspect he doesn't feel > > like he was ripped off. If the author doesn't think > > so, I don't see why your friend should think so. > > > > For what it's worth. > > Steve/bboyminn > > Stacy here: > I should forward this to my friend. Maybe your > words will convince him that he's being silly, and > coax him to read the books. I keep telling him > he's really missing out on some wonderful stuff. > bboyminn: It's odd isn't it, that people can be so fiercely loyal to books and authors. I know many LotR fans who absolutely will not touch a Harry Potter book because the are convinced JKR betrayed their favorite author by using what in reality are universal themes. Your friend seems to be the same, he will not betray his favorite author and his favorite story regardless of the cost. In a way, I admire that books can inspire such loyalty. That books can have this wonderful power over people. But, really, why deny yourself the fun and adventure of a great book out of loyalty to another book. I'm guessing the author would say READ!, read anything and everything. Allow yourself, mind, body, and soul, to be immersed in the great adventure of stories. And you will like what you like and not like what you don't like; that's just life. But don't deny yourself the adventure. I recently discovered that my sister and her son are big Eragon fans, yet, they resist reading Harry Potter. I think partly because they think it is just a shallow trendy fad of a book. That it can't possible have the substance that Ergaon does. But I encouraged them to read the first book anyway. You can buy the first HP book in paperback for about $6 or $7, and pointed out that you will never get better entertainment value for your money. What else could possibly provide you with hours of fun and adventure for only $7? The absolute worst that could happen is you'll only be mildly amused for several hours. Is that such a bad thing? Just a thought. Steve/bboyminn From jlnbtr at yahoo.com Sat Aug 18 22:24:21 2007 From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:24:21 -0000 Subject: Just saw the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jlnbtr" wrote: > > > > Juli - wandering where she could find a real life Sirius > > > Meaning his personality? I would imagine that extreme-sports atheletes > have the same thrill-seeking-ness; you could search among them for one > is as super-loyal to his friends, and protective of his godson. > Juli again: I think that if Sirius was a 'real' person, he would be a musician, perhaps a drummer or a bass or guitar player, he would have tatoos... Plus his english accent... And his sexiness. Very yummy. From donnawonna at att.net Sun Aug 19 01:43:19 2007 From: donnawonna at att.net (Donna) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:43:19 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: J K Rowlin gWriting Again Message-ID: <46C7A037.000005.03616@LIFESAVER> I just saw this on the Internet: Report: J.K. Rowling Writing Crime Novel, AP News Summary: LONDON (AP) - J.K. Rowling has been spotted at cafes in Scotland working on a detective novel, a British newspaper reported Saturday. http://dailynews.att net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070818&cat=news&st=newsd8r3pc381&src=ap Note: This article expires on: 08.22.2007 at 12:00 am Donna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 02:05:34 2007 From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:05:34 -0000 Subject: J K Rowling Writing Again In-Reply-To: <46C7A037.000005.03616@LIFESAVER> Message-ID: Donna pointed to: > Report: J.K. Rowling Writing Crime Novel, AP News > Summary: LONDON (AP) - J.K. Rowling has been spotted at cafes in > Scotland working on a detective novel, a British newspaper reported > Saturday. > > http://dailynews.att > net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070818&cat=news&st=newsd8r3pc381&src=ap Petra: There's a missing dot in the URL above, between att and net, besides the usual annoyance of truncated hyperlink. Maybe the below will work: http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070818&cat=news&st=newsd8r3pc381&src=ap From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Aug 19 06:44:07 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:44:07 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > bboyminn: > > It's odd isn't it, that people can be so fiercely > loyal to books and authors. I know many LotR fans > who absolutely will not touch a Harry Potter book > because the are convinced JKR betrayed their > favorite author by using what in reality are > universal themes. Geoff: To me, it certainly seems odd. I am a great fan of both HP and LOTR and, in my own personal imagined universe, they fit quite happily because they occupy completely different time zones. LOTR is in a period of incredibly remote history whereas Harry and friends occupy an almost contemporaneous period to today. There are bound to be overlapping themes in this sort of book because authors draw from similar source material. For example, If you read Alan Garner's "Weirdstone of Brisingamen" and "Moon of Gomrath" there are sections in which I see parallels with LOTR and Narnia and I do not feel that the author is plagiarising in any way. From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 07:32:23 2007 From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 07:32:23 -0000 Subject: Books of Magic vs Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > Doddie here: *big snip of bboyminn* who didn't even address said post because a gaiman and rowling debate had nothing to do with the response. > > Geoff: > To me, it certainly seems odd. > doddie here: big snip yet again...for the reason posted above I'm not snipping to be mean, because I haven't read all of Gaiman's works either....(I collect other comic book works which have nothing to do with magic world of pottervers, but do cover magical worlds, and some do cover the scientific worlds which seem magic)..So I cannot give you a meaningful analysis. I've read snippets of Sandman, Stardust and a few of his other works, but I've also read a great many artists' works... Truth is...is doesn't matter if plots are similar...as long as characters of unique and memorable...and in the HP series characters are unique and memorable(they are both)....I'll not delve into comparisons into the LOTR series and the legend of Morte D'Arthur, or Morte D'Arthur and the Illiad... All great works, worthy of their own analysis... I just love that so many cultures(not all western)...don't understand snape either..LMAO These are cultures who get/understand, Harry, Hermione, Ron, Neville, Dumbledore, Lupin, Ginny, Luna, Fred &George, and yes, they even get Percy...but none of them get Snape.. so perhaps harry naming his son may have had more to deal with international audiences than it did with snape? I'm waiting for translations to appear.. DD From queen_amidalachic at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 07:50:43 2007 From: queen_amidalachic at yahoo.com (Maria) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 07:50:43 -0000 Subject: Deathly Hallows art! Message-ID: Title:The Forest Again * * * * * * * * * Harry walking through the forest to his death accompanied by his parents and mentors Rating: G Link: http://frizzyhermione.deviantart.com/art/DH-The-forest-again- 62594673 From valanys at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 19 10:20:17 2007 From: valanys at yahoo.co.uk (valanys) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:20:17 -0000 Subject: Exciting stuff for Harry Potter fans ! Message-ID: Exciting stuff for Harry Potter fans ! If you enjoy Harry, Emma and Ron as well as fantasy worlds like the Lord of the Rings, legendary heroes like Eragon, magic, spells and fiction in general, then you cannot miss Valanys, the new rising star in medieval fantasy / dragons / orcs and magic legends. See her dedicated website at www.valanys.com. Fantasy & Fiction Worlds, new web editor, publishes exclusively on the web and will be pleased welcome you there with Valanys. Come along with friends ! From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Aug 19 12:31:05 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:31:05 -0000 Subject: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jeanico2000" wrote: > > Katie: actually, I totally feel the same way you do. I'm no longer > visiting the main list for those very reasons. The negative threads > are choking out all the positive ones... and there is just too much > negative (a bit like devil's snare gone rampant). it's no longer fun > to go there, IMHO. > Best, > Nicole Geoff: I would respond by saying, don't give up on Main. There are many of us who think positively about the books who are still around. I have been a member of the group since July 2003. I used to post a good deal more frequently than I now do. I keep an archive of all the posts I have sent and over that period, I have written just over 2200 messages - some long, some brief. In the last couple of years, my posting rate has dropped noticeably and it is to do partly with the "feel" of the group. I think some of the present problems date back to the publication of HBP in 2005. At that time, there seemed to be a sea change on the group and instead of a wide swathe of threads running in parallel - often short and sometimes humorous, we began to get long, deep threads about Snape, Horcruxes and the manner of Dumbledore's death. One recurring problem is what I have been credited with defining as the "tennis match" exchange where the thread runs along the lines "Oh yes it is", "Oh no it isn't " with the same arguments being reiterated ad infinitum. I have suggested that this is perhaps a development of Basil Fawlty's theory about foreign visitors in "Fawlty Towers", namely, that if you speak slowly enough in English and repeat the phrase again and again, they will understand. There are from time to time, members arrive who give us their views and seem to expect that we have to conform to their theories and interpretation of the books. We all need to accept that everyone on the group has their own take on the story and will not necessarily agree but that, while some contributors are saying that the result has spoiled the story for them, others are quite happy. That is everyone's right. Remember that our view of JKR's conclusion is subjective; we cannot force other readers to agree if they don't. So I believe that those of us who feel positively about the events should be prepared to hang in and add our ideas to the mix. As far as I am concerned, after my first read of DH, I felt that I had got very mixed feelings. A second read has left me feeling much more positive. But ti's a matter of choice what you read or write on the group. At the risk of being excommunicated by everybody, I will state that I had never had any deep concerns or feelings about Snape, either negative or positive, so I tend to skip over threads about him. There are other threads for whichI do the same.I read the books to enjoy them, and use the "willing suspension of disbelief". I'm sufficiently dense to overlook flints or contradictions until someone points them out. I hope, as I said at the beginning, that the naysayers will not drive away those with a more positive view. I have enjoyed being on the group over the years. I have made a number of friends and I would be saddened if members felt unwilling to put in their twopennyworth (or more) for fear of being rubbished or patronised by contributors holding opposite opinions. Let's make it fun again, Nicole. :-)_ From krussell98 at comcast.net Sun Aug 19 13:54:24 2007 From: krussell98 at comcast.net (Kathi) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:54:24 -0400 Subject: fanfiction? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> I've noticed quite a few references to fanfiction on the main list, and am interested in reading some. The problem I am having is that much of what I've found through general searches is not, um (I hate to say this). of very good quality. Does anyone have some suggestions of where I can find some really good, substantial fanfiction that doesn't read like it is written by a 10 year old? Thanks! LK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 15:11:11 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:11:11 -0000 Subject: fanfiction? In-Reply-To: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathi" wrote: > > I've noticed quite a few references to fanfiction on the main list, and am > interested in reading some. The problem I am having is that much of what > I've found through general searches is not, um (I hate to say this). of very > good quality. Does anyone have some suggestions of where I can find some > really good, substantial fanfiction that doesn't read like it is written by > a 10 year old? > Thanks! > LK Alla: I agree with you that it is hard to find good stories, very hard, but it is possible. Plenty on ff.net is indeed crap, but there are other sites,which I am sure others will point out. I do not know what genres you like, but just to get you started here are couple of my favorites: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1480438/1/ - the only one of two Harry in Azkabane stories I love http://www.fanfiction.net/s/750576/1/Never_Alone_Never_Again - pre OOP, but phenomenal writing IMO. The only prerequisite for reading these two stories is that you have to like Harry :) If you do, I am pretty sure you will like those. Alla From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 19 15:44:12 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 19 Aug 2007 15:44:12 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/19/2007, 11:00 am Message-ID: <1187538252.8.55946.m52@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 19, 2007 11:00 am - 12:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 19 17:41:14 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 19 Aug 2007 17:41:14 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/19/2007, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1187545274.8.90785.m56@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 19, 2007 1:00 pm - 1:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Aug 19 17:36:08 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:36:08 -0000 Subject: The old days (was Re: Why are Potter-Haters Still Here? (Ranting) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > I would respond by saying, don't give up on Main. There are many of > us who think positively about the books who are still around. Potioncat: I second that. Geoff: > I think some of the present problems date back to the publication of > HBP in 2005. At that time, there seemed to be a sea change on the > group and instead of a wide swathe of threads running in parallel - > often short and sometimes humorous, we began to get long, deep > threads about Snape, Horcruxes and the manner of Dumbledore's > death. One recurring problem is what I have been credited with > defining as the "tennis match" exchange where the thread runs > along the lines "Oh yes it is", "Oh no it isn't " with the same arguments > being reiterated ad infinitum. Potioncat: Was that also about the time that the list-elves and membership decided (after discussion) to go to a 5 post a day limit, and to more carefully avoid one-liners? We used to have running gags all the time. If you're checking in fairly often, those runnging gags can be lots of fun. If you're reading everything posted at the end of the day/week---those short posts aren't very interesting and take up a lot of time. (But I do miss them.) > Geoff: > So I believe that those of us who feel positively about the events > should be prepared to hang in and add our ideas to the mix. As > far as I am concerned, after my first read of DH, I felt that I had > got very mixed feelings. A second read has left me feeling much > more positive. Potioncat: That's been my experience too. Except that I haven't re-read the whole book yet. I did re-read the last 1/3 of it. > Geoff: > I hope, as I said at the beginning, that the naysayers will not drive > away those with a more positive view. I have enjoyed being on the > group over the years. I have made a number of friends and I would > be saddened if members felt unwilling to put in their twopennyworth > (or more) for fear of being rubbished or patronised by contributors > holding opposite opinions. Potioncat: I agree. I would like to see the board friendly to both the happy and unhappy. So that both groups respect the views of the others. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Aug 19 17:44:19 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:44:19 -0000 Subject: fanfiction? In-Reply-To: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> Message-ID: Kathi wrote: > > I've noticed quite a few references to fanfiction on the main list, and am > interested in reading some. The problem I am having is that much of what > I've found through general searches is not, um (I hate to say this). of very > good quality. Does anyone have some suggestions of where I can find some > really good, substantial fanfiction that doesn't read like it is written by > a 10 year old? Potioncat: The problem is, that just like HPfGU, fanfiction draws a large crowd of widely different skills and ideas. Many sites have standards of style, and most allow you to search by which characters you would like to read about. The site I most often visit is Fiction Alley. SugarQuill is also very good. Sycophant Hex is abosutely for an older crowd, and can be very-- -erm---adult, but has good fics and a rating that allows you to filter for theme. I'd be glad to discuss this more off list if you'd like. Happy reading. Potioncat (Kathy) From heidi8 at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 01:59:35 2007 From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:59:35 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fanfiction? In-Reply-To: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> References: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> Message-ID: <5913e6f80708191859o11bacc91ndbd5b7ed276ace3f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/07, Kathi wrote: > I've noticed quite a few references to fanfiction on the main list, and am > interested in reading some. The problem I am having is that much of what > I've found through general searches is not, um (I hate to say this). of very > good quality. Does anyone have some suggestions of where I can find some > really good, substantial fanfiction that doesn't read like it is written by > a 10 year old? We have pushing 70,000 fics and chapters on FictionAlley and while they're uniformly good in terms of grammar and spelling, over the last five years, our FicNifflers have specifically recommended just over 800. You can find them at http://forums.fictionalley.org/park/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=106 Obviously, it's almost entirely pre-DH, although they've started recommending post-DH fics recently, too. In fact, the recs go back to stories that predate Goblet of Fire, like WolfieTwins' Remus-centric Call of the Wild (http://www.fictionalley.org/authors/wolfietwins/) and Lori's Paradigm of Uncertainty (http://www.fictionalley.org/authors/lori/). And nearly five years ago, I updated the list of fanfic by then-members of HPfGU (well, some are still around) on the hpfgu.org.uk FAQ section - you can see it here: http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/fanfiction.html Somewhere among the 900 or so fics on those two lists, you'll find a lot of great reading material. And if you're looking for something specific by ship, character or era, you can try our advanced fic search page at http://forums.fictionalley.org/fics/search.php - Heidi CREATIVITY IS MAGIC! From jeopardy18 at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 03:12:59 2007 From: jeopardy18 at comcast.net (seanmulligan2000) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:12:59 -0000 Subject: fanfiction? In-Reply-To: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathi" wrote: > > I've noticed quite a few references to fanfiction on the main list, and am > interested in reading some. The problem I am having is that much of what > I've found through general searches is not, um (I hate to say this). of very > good quality. Does anyone have some suggestions of where I can find some > really good, substantial fanfiction that doesn't read like it is written by > a 10 year old? > Thanks! > LK > > > Some good fanfiction sites that have not been mentioned yet include Sink Into Your Eyes, Portkey.org, Witchfics, fanficauthors.net and Twisting the Hellmouth which has many Harry Potter/BTVS crossover stories. Some fics that I can recommend include the Slytherin Rising series by J.L. Matthews which is on ffn and Fiction Alley, the Psychic Serpent Trilogy by Barb also on ffn and Fiction Alley. Realizations on ffn http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1260679/1/Realizations, Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Futures Past on ffn, http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2636963/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Nightmares _of_Futures_Past, Beyond the Place of Wrath and Tears by Talriga on ffn a Snape time travel fic http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2778868/1/Beyond_This_Place_of_Wrath_and_ Tears, A very funny crossover between the adventures of Grim and Evil and Harry Potter http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2666277/1/Something_Grim_This_Way_Comes Who is the real Hermione Granger? http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2439980/1/The_Girl_Nobody_KnowsA_Soliloqu y, An au for book three where Harry finds out the truth about Sirius earlier. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2052919/1/Midnight_Guardian, The story of how Tome Riddle fell to Darkness, http://www.fanfiction.net/s/505654/1/The_Broken_Victory, The story of Uric the Odball http://www.fanfiction.net/s/378519/1/Uric_the_Oddball_and_the_Wild_Hu nt, A very good marriage law fic that has not been updated in a while. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2367597/1/The_Power_Of_The_Quill From uyulalah at hotpop.com Mon Aug 20 05:05:58 2007 From: uyulalah at hotpop.com (orionis13) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:05:58 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? Message-ID: Good night! Just 30 minutes ago -as of 20/08/07 at 12.50 am (ET) - most of my Harry Potter-related YahooGroups disappeared! I was a member of more than 10 HP Y!G, and now I have only 4. It's weird that the groups that disappeared were about Harry Potter! Anyone knows something? I apologized in advance, if this has happened or has been addressed before but it just caught me by surprise since I was browsing through one of them and got an error code (9997) and when I went to "my groups" found only 11 groups out of the 27 I was a member of! I'm seriously freaking out. HG From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 11:24:54 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:24:54 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > HG: > Anyone knows something? > I apologized in advance, if this has happened or has been > addressed before but it just caught me by surprise since I > was browsing through one of them and got an error code (9997) > and when I went to "my groups" found only 11 groups out of the > 27 I was a member of! Goddlefrood: It seems Yahoo had some problems, but happily they appear to have been resolved now. Hopefully that'll include yours HG :-) From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 19:31:49 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: fanfiction? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <954959.53706.qm@web60912.mail.yahoo.com> A friend of mine found a fan written DH (prior to the release of the actual DH) its very good. I'd love to pass it along! dumbledore11214 wrote: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathi" wrote: > > I've noticed quite a few references to fanfiction on the main list, and am > interested in reading some. The problem I am having is that much of what > I've found through general searches is not, um (I hate to say this). of very > good quality. Does anyone have some suggestions of where I can find some > really good, substantial fanfiction that doesn't read like it is written by > a 10 year old? > Thanks! > LK Alla: I agree with you that it is hard to find good stories, very hard, but it is possible. Plenty on ff.net is indeed crap, but there are other sites,which I am sure others will point out. I do not know what genres you like, but just to get you started here are couple of my favorites: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1480438/1/ - the only one of two Harry in Azkabane stories I love http://www.fanfiction.net/s/750576/1/Never_Alone_Never_Again - pre OOP, but phenomenal writing IMO. The only prerequisite for reading these two stories is that you have to like Harry :) If you do, I am pretty sure you will like those. Alla Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ladymela99 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 14:30:41 2007 From: ladymela99 at yahoo.com (Melanie) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fanfiction? In-Reply-To: <011a01c7e268$73d16f50$6501a8c0@Dude> Message-ID: <186631.16100.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <> The one that I read is by a woman named Lori (that's the author I believe). The fanfic located at schnoogle.com and is called Paradigm of Uncertainty. It's very long and is almost an entire series. I'm actually looking for new fanfic to indulge in as well if anyone has some. ~Melanie --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eggplant107 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 20:39:52 2007 From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:39:52 -0000 Subject: Lori's fanfiction (was fanfiction). In-Reply-To: <186631.16100.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Melanie wrote: > The one that I read is by a > woman named Lori (that's the > author I believe). The fanfic > located at schnoogle.com and is > called Paradigm of Uncertainty. Yes I've read Lori's trilogy, and parts of it are pretty good or I wouldn't have stuck with it, but Lori is no JKR. At one point Harry and Hermione (Harry's love interest in Lori's universe) are in deep sickly saccharin embarrassingly obvious love when all of a suddenly out of the blue they have this HUGE apocalyptic fight over an entirely trivial matter, and then just when you think they are about to slit each other's throats the fight is over even more suddenly than it started; and now they are deeply in love each other again! What the hell was that all about? Still, parts of it were OK. Lori never finished it and I doubt she ever will. She started writing it after book 3 and her view of Harry's future and JKR's have diverged radically since then. Eggplant Gellert Grindelwald From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Aug 21 02:31:53 2007 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:31:53 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation Message-ID: How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three (thick- nes-sy). - CMC (yes, it's for a filk) From uyulalah at hotpop.com Tue Aug 21 04:07:19 2007 From: uyulalah at hotpop.com (orionis13) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:07:19 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes.. it was fixed.. I got my groups back :s HG --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > It seems Yahoo had some problems, but happily they appear to have > been resolved now. Hopefully that'll include yours HG :-) > From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 09:30:33 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:30:33 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > CMC: > How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three > (thick-nes-sy). Goddlefrood: I pronounced it as the former. As in largesse, if that helps. From specialcritters at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 11:39:05 2007 From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:39:05 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim Dale pronounces it "Thickness." > > > CMC: > > > How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three > > (thick-nes-sy). _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From heidi8 at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 12:47:46 2007 From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:47:46 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1187700468.2B8E27AD@fc5.dngr.org> >> CMC: > >> How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three >> (thick-nes-sy). I pronounce it Thick-Nose, even though I know that's totally inaccurate, because I've watched far too much of The Land Before Time. Momishly, Heidi From n2fgc at arrl.net Tue Aug 21 15:19:52 2007 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:19:52 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0JN400LILQLJKTM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> [CMC] | How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or | three (thick- | nes-sy). [Lee]: Well, in the Jim Dale Audio, it's pronounced "thickness," and in the Stephen Fry UK version it's pronounced "Thick Ness," like "Loch Ness?" :-) Cheers, Lee :-) From plantladywithcfids at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 21 17:31:29 2007 From: plantladywithcfids at yahoo.ca (ANGIE) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:31:29 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > > HG: > > > Anyone knows something? > > > I apologized in advance, if this has happened or has been > > addressed before but it just caught me by surprise since I > > was browsing through one of them and got an error code (9997) > > and when I went to "my groups" found only 11 groups out of the > > 27 I was a member of! > Angie's answer: Yes, Yahoo had a ton of trouble over the weekend and was bombarded with emails. There was trouble all across the Yahoo groups in anything with more than about 70 members. Here is the response I got from yahoo: "Please be assured that we are currently aware of the following issues: - Unable to view the Members List of your Yahoo! Group - Inability to view all or several of your groups in your My Groupspage - Receiving "9997 errors" when attempting to access your Yahoo! Group - Delays in message delivery At this time we would like to reassure you that we are doing everything in our power to resolve the issue as quickly as possible and we certainly apologize for any inconvenience these issues are causing you. For the latest update on these issues please visit: - http://blog.360.yahoo.com/y_groups_team From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 19:29:27 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:29:27 -0000 Subject: A Name, A Name, My Kingdom for a Name Message-ID: Orginally I sent this to a friend off line, but upon giving it some thought, I realized it might be valuable information for everyone. If you have a Yahoo username, that DOES NOT include something in the 'Real Name' section, you are asking for trouble, and here is why. - - - - - - - - - - - - - This is a completely minor point off every conceivable topic. I noticed you don't have a 'Real Name' in your Yahoo profile. Let me explain why that isn't a good idea. I used to belong to the 'HP for Grownups' group under the username 'boyblue', I posted for a couple years under that name until some Spammers got hold of it and started sending out email using my username. I just a few days Yahoo canceled the username and wouldn't bring it back. Well, joining under a new username seems like a simple enough solution, and for that part it was. But EVERY POST I had made to the group also disappeared. With out a 'Real Name' to reference the posts by...well they couldn't reference them at all, that they vanished. If your profile has a 'Real Name' even if it is not actually a /real name/, your post will remain in the group, if by some chance your username is canceled, but without something to reference the post against, the post vanish. If you think your username can't or is unlikely to disappear, keep in mind that I'm on my 5th or 6th username in this group. One of them lasted a month before Yahoo canceled with no explanation, and another lasted less than 2 weeks. So, now I keep a back up name, I'm a member of all my favorite groups under a rarely used name. If the first one goes I can still post unmoderated while I wait for unmoderated status on my new username to kick in. Don't let one of Yahoo's mood swings cancel all your hard work; add a name to your profile. For what it's worth. Steve/bboyminn From Mhochberg at aol.com Tue Aug 21 22:45:27 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:45:27 EDT Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation Message-ID: > CMC: > How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three > (thick-nes-sy) Goddlefrood: I pronounced it as the former. As in largesse, if that helps. Mary: That is how Jim Dale pronounces it in the audiobook. ---Mary "The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it." -- General H. Norman Schwarzkopf ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 05:17:48 2007 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:17:48 -0000 Subject: siamese cats and bad vision Message-ID: I have noticed that my Siamese cat cannot see the laser pointer that the other cats enjoy so very much. Is it the inherent bad Siamese cat eyes, or the fact that Siamese cats eyes reflect red instead of green, like other cats? I mean, Mr. Pointy doesn't see it at all, and looks at the other cats like they are tripping! Curious, Alex Hogan From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Wed Aug 22 06:37:58 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:37:58 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Mhochberg at ... wrote: > > > CMC: > > How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three > > (thick-nes-sy) > > Goddlefrood: > I pronounced it as the former. As in largesse, if that helps. > > Mary: > That is how Jim Dale pronounces it in the audiobook. Geoff: I think this is another of JKR's marvellous wordplays - in the Diagon Alley/Umbridge/Disillusion tradition. I would see Pius Thicknesse = pious thickness which would give two syllables to his surname. My dictionary gives a second meaning to "pious" which is "making a hypocritical display of virtue". It immediately made me think of Charles Dickens' Uriah Heep who was a singularly unpleasant character. Thickness(e) speaks for itself. :-) From specialcritters at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 12:22:41 2007 From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:22:41 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] siamese cats and bad vision In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My Meezer is severely disabled due to cerebellar hypoplasia (kitty CP), so I hesitate to generalize. You could join http://www.vetpetpartners.org/ and ask; the vets might know. >From: "Alex Hogan" >I have noticed that my Siamese cat cannot see the laser pointer that >the other cats enjoy so very much. Is it the inherent bad Siamese cat >eyes, or the fact that Siamese cats eyes reflect red instead of green, >like other cats? I mean, Mr. Pointy doesn't see it at all, and looks at >the other cats like they are tripping! > >Curious, >Alex Hogan > _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From Mhochberg at aol.com Thu Aug 23 02:20:14 2007 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:20:14 EDT Subject: Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter? Message-ID: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and the Return of the King are the names of the three books in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. "The Chronicles of Narnia" is a set of 7 books. Both series names are very impressive and comprehensive. So what is the name of the seven Harry Potter books? Just plain "Harry Potter"? ---Mary "The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it." -- General H. Norman Schwarzkopf ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 02:34:05 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:34:05 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Angie quoted the following message from Yahoo: > "Please be assured that we are currently aware of the following > issues: > - Unable to view the Members List of your Yahoo! Group > - Inability to view all or several of your groups in your My > Groupspage > - Receiving "9997 errors" when attempting to access your Yahoo! > Group > - Delays in message delivery > > At this time we would like to reassure you that we are doing > everything in our power to resolve the issue as quickly as possible > and we certainly apologize for any inconvenience these issues are > causing you. > > For the latest update on these issues please visit: > > - http://blog.360.yahoo.com/y_groups_team > Carol responds: "Issues"? Whatever happened to "problems"? Carol, who has "issues" with "issues" and wonders whatever happened to English From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 02:56:17 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:56:17 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: CMC: > > How is Thicknesse pronounced? Two syllable (thick-ness) or three (thick-nes-sy) > > Goddlefrood: > I pronounced it as the former. As in largesse, if that helps. > > Mary: > That is how Jim Dale pronounces it in the audiobook. Carol: FWIW, although I immediately recognized the pun on "thickness," I pronounced it "thick NESS" because of the -"esse" suffix. I can think of only two English words ("largesse" and "politesse") containing that suffix, but the "e" in both is a short e, not a schwa, as in "thickness." At any rate, it's certainly two syllables, not three. Carol, hoping that someone else will come up with another "-esse" word to help her out From bhobbs36 at verizon.net Thu Aug 23 05:25:25 2007 From: bhobbs36 at verizon.net (Belinda) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:25:25 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jo pronounces it Thick NESS (like thick nest without the T). You can listen to her live reading of DH chapter1 on the Bloomsbury site. There's both a video and audio-only versions. Here's a link: http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/bloomsbury/bl01.html From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 05:35:52 2007 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:35:52 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > "Issues"? Whatever happened to "problems"? > > Carol, who has "issues" with "issues" and wonders whatever happened to > English Tonks: Yes, as a former Psychotherapist an "issue" is one thing and a problem is another. I think that Yahoo is buying into the custom in business that one can never have a "problem" ... it is a negative word and must never happen in their company. Problems only occur to the other people. Sometimes all of this political correctness, which isn't really correct, drives me crazy! Tonks_op From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 05:46:58 2007 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:46:58 -0000 Subject: A Name, A Name, My Kingdom for a Name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > > Orginally I sent this to a friend off line, but upon > giving it some thought, I realized it might be valuable > information for everyone. > > If you have a Yahoo username, that DOES NOT include > something in the 'Real Name' section, you are asking > for trouble, and here is why. Tonks: Huh??? Sorry, I don't think I understood a word of that, but it was interesting. Why would Yahoo remove you if you hadn't done something wrong somehow, somewhere? Tonks_op who always thought that bboy meant bad boy in minn. it means blue boy? From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 06:27:34 2007 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:27:34 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > I think this is another of JKR's marvellous wordplays - in the Diagon > Alley/Umbridge/Disillusion tradition. > > I would see Pius Thicknesse = pious thickness which would give two > syllables to his surname. > > My dictionary gives a second meaning to "pious" which is "making a > hypocritical display of virtue". It immediately made me think of > Charles Dickens' Uriah Heep who was a singularly unpleasant > character. Thickness(e) speaks for itself. :-) > Tonks_op I thought of it as a way of putting down the Roman Catholic church and the methods of government in the church. Pius being a name often associated with one of the Popes. Tonks_op From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 07:28:36 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:28:36 -0000 Subject: Something wrong with Y!Groups about HP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Carol, who has "issues" with "issues" and wonders whatever > > happened to English > Tonks: > I think that Yahoo is buying into the custom in business that > one can never have a "problem" Goddlefrood: This kind of thing has been going on for years, look at Rolls Royce motor cars, they never break down, they merely fail to proceed. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Aug 23 19:37:26 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:37:26 -0000 Subject: Daniel Radcliffe - My Boy Jack Message-ID: When I bought my copy of next week's "Radio Times" - one of the weekly UK magazines which list and discuss all TV and radio, I was interested to find a picture of Dan in Army uniform in the front cover drawing attention to an article inside looking at forthcoming programmes and films etc. during the autumn. This is for the Ecosse Films production of "My Boy Jack". I then found an article with the same photo plus one other on line. If you are interested the URL is: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html? in_article_id=472469&in_page_id=1773 Geoff From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Aug 23 19:49:33 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:49:33 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > > Geoff: > > I think this is another of JKR's marvellous wordplays - in the Diagon > > Alley/Umbridge/Disillusion tradition. > > I would see Pius Thicknesse = pious thickness which would give two > > syllables to his surname. > > My dictionary gives a second meaning to "pious" which is "making a > > hypocritical display of virtue". It immediately made me think of > > Charles Dickens' Uriah Heep who was a singularly unpleasant > > character. Thickness(e) speaks for itself. :-) > Carol: > FWIW, although I immediately recognized the pun on "thickness," I > pronounced it "thick NESS" because of the -"esse" suffix. I can think > of only two English words ("largesse" and "politesse") containing that > suffix, but the "e" in both is a short e, not a schwa, as in > "thickness." At any rate, it's certainly two syllables, not three. Geoff: Two points. "Largesse" and "politesse" are pronounced differently, the former having a soft `s' sound and the latter hard. I pronounce all these words with the same `e' sound. > Tonks_op > I thought of it as a way of putting down the Roman Catholic church and > the methods of government in the church. Pius being a name often > associated with one of the Popes. Geoff: Just for the record, there were twelve of them . The last was Pius XII who was Pope from 1939-58. From zeldazamboni at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 21:58:08 2007 From: zeldazamboni at yahoo.com (Zelda Zunk) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:58:08 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Monster Book of Monsters Plush at ThinkGeek Message-ID: Just sort of stumbled over this while I was looking at geek stuff. Cute gift for the young Potter fan. Harry Potter Monster Book of Monsters Plush. Care of Magical Creatures - Year Three http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/9359/ Zelda Zunk Corsets & Capes. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 22:34:34 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:34:34 -0000 Subject: Of "issues" and "gender" and "holiday trees" (Was: Something wrong...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Carol, who has "issues" with "issues" and wonders whatever happened to English > > > Tonks: > > I think that Yahoo is buying into the custom in business that one can never have a "problem" > > Goddlefrood: > > This kind of thing has been going on for years, look at Rolls Royce motor cars, they never break down, they merely fail to proceed. > Carol: LOL! These days, at least in the U.S., a store can't even have a sale. It's either a "sales event" or just an "event." "Join us for our August clearance event!" Sheesh. And I'm sure I've already complained here about "holiday trees" and "holiday cards." Or how about "precipitation in the form of rain" when "rain" will do just fine, or "crisis situation" for "crisis"? Another thing that gets to me is being asked for my "gender" on a form. I always want to respond that, not being a noun or pronoun, I don't have one. I do, however, have a sex: female. Carol, who values linguistic precision but fears that it's a lost cause From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 22:50:10 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:50:10 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Carol: > > > FWIW, although I immediately recognized the pun on "thickness," I > > pronounced it "thick NESS" because of the -"esse" suffix. I can think of only two English words ("largesse" and "politesse") containing that suffix, but the "e" in both is a short e, not a schwa, as in "thickness." At any rate, it's certainly two syllables, not three. > > Geoff: > Two points. > > "Largesse" and "politesse" are pronounced differently, the former having a soft `s' sound and the latter hard. > > I pronounce all these words with the same `e' sound. Carol: Not according to Merriam-Webster Online, which has an audio link so that you can hear the pronunciation. (I checked. The ESS sound is the same in both words.) http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/largesse http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politesse Admittedly, however, it's an American dictionary. "Finesse" is another one: http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/finesse (Still can't think of any others, but all three have the same sound according to my source.) In any case, with regard to Pius Thicknesse, I'd say that JKR's reading of the first chapter (in which she uses the pronunciation I suggested, "thick NESS") settles the matter. (Thanks to whoever posted that comment.) Speaking of dear Pius, did anyone find it troubling that he's treated as a bad guy during the battle even though he was Imperiused? Essentially, he's Yaxley's puppet from the first chapter, not a DE. Carol, hoping that CMC has settled on a pronunciation that suits the FILK From annemehr at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 00:57:31 2007 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:57:31 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > > Geoff: > > I think this is another of JKR's marvellous wordplays - in the Diagon > > Alley/Umbridge/Disillusion tradition. > > > > I would see Pius Thicknesse = pious thickness which would give two > > syllables to his surname. > > > > My dictionary gives a second meaning to "pious" which is "making a > > hypocritical display of virtue". It immediately made me think of > > Charles Dickens' Uriah Heep who was a singularly unpleasant > > character. Thickness(e) speaks for itself. :-) > > > > Tonks_op > I thought of it as a way of putting down the Roman Catholic church and > the methods of government in the church. Pius being a name often > associated with one of the Popes. > > Tonks_op > Well, she meant to put down *somebody* (probably meant Pius = pious, and not popes in particular), but I can't help thinking it applies just as well to herself since I've read DH. Annemehr From annemehr at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 01:05:13 2007 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:05:13 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote: > Speaking of dear Pius, did anyone find it troubling that he's treated > as a bad guy during the battle even though he was Imperiused? > Essentially, he's Yaxley's puppet from the first chapter, not a DE. > I did, yes, but I think his name was supposed to be a signal that he was not one of the "good guys" in any case, so we weren't meant to be concerned. Annemehr obviously feeling snarky today...watch out! From swartell at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 01:16:07 2007 From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation Message-ID: <828925.95280.qm@web53204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Annemehr who responded to someone who had said:Speaking of dear Pius, did anyone find it troubling that he's treated > as a bad guy during the battle even though he was Imperiused? > Essentially, he's Yaxley's puppet from the first chapter, not a DE. > I did, yes, but I think his name was supposed to be a signal that he was not one of the "good guys" in any case, so we weren't meant to be concerned. Now Sue: I assumed it was a demonstration that unlike Harry, most were not concerned about the motivations of the people trying to kill them. They were acting on the principal that if you are trying to kill me and /or my friends, I am going to try to kill you first. _ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Aug 24 06:49:59 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 06:49:59 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote: > > > > > Carol: > > > > > FWIW, although I immediately recognized the pun on "thickness," I > > > pronounced it "thick NESS" because of the -"esse" suffix. I can > think of only two English words ("largesse" and "politesse") > containing that suffix, but the "e" in both is a short e, not a schwa, > as in "thickness." At any rate, it's certainly two syllables, not three. > > > > Geoff: > > Two points. > > > > "Largesse" and "politesse" are pronounced differently, the former > having a soft `s' sound and the latter hard. > > > > I pronounce all these words with the same `e' sound. > > Carol: > Not according to Merriam-Webster Online, which has an audio link so > that you can hear the pronunciation. (I checked. The ESS sound is the > same in both words.) > > http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/largesse > http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politesse > > Admittedly, however, it's an American dictionary. "Finesse" is another > one: > > http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/finesse > > (Still can't think of any others, but all three have the same sound > according to my source.) Geoff: Yes, but what benchmark are they using for their standard? I'm speaking as a UK native speaker who has been considered as accentless by some acquaintances. That comes of growing up for nine years in the north of England with a Lancashire accent with much more open vowels than the South, then adding to that the effect of living in London for 45 years in, I suppose, a middle-class environment and also being a teacher. Merriam-Webster, with respect, cannot legislate or dictate for regional or national pronunciations. In addition to the two areas I mentioned above, I now live in the West Country which has a much broader, rural dialect. For example, we have had discussions on this group over examples like Sirius/serious where US speakers, apparently, use the same pronunciation whereas native UK speakers can distinguish between the two. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 18:22:06 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:22:06 -0000 Subject: A Name, A Name, My Kingdom for a Name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Tonks" wrote: > > --- "Steve" wrote: > > > > Orginally I sent this to a friend off line, but upon > > giving it some thought, I realized it might be > > valuable information for everyone. > > > > If you have a Yahoo username, that DOES NOT include > > something in the 'Real Name' section, you are asking > > for trouble, and here is why. > > Tonks: > > Huh??? Sorry, I don't think I understood a word of > that, but it was interesting. Why would Yahoo remove > you if you hadn't done something wrong somehow, > somewhere? > > Tonks_op > who always thought that bboy meant bad boy in minn. > it means blue boy? > bboyminn: If you look along side your posts, you will see that you have a 'real name', it's 'Tonks'. Your username is 'tonks_op' and your personal name is listed as 'Tonks'. So, you email address in your posts looks like this- "Tonks" tonks_op at ..." So, you are protected. Losing your username is arbitrary. Pardon the expression but 'piss' someone off in one of your discussion groups, and they can complain and have your username canceled. That is really all it takes. Also, if Spammers get your username, they can start sending Spam under that name, and that will get your account canceled. If by chance, though a computer virus or whatever, they get your password, they can not only send email under your name, they can use your Yahoo account and Yahoo's email server to send it. Again, you are canceled with no explanation. The real problem is the 'no explanation' part. One day your account is gone and that's it. At best you /might/ get an email telling you your account is canceled, but that is not likely since they would have to send it to the account that is being canceled. So, the question to others is, how valuable do you think your posts are? Do you think your contribute something to the discussion? If you do, then enter your profile and put 'something' in the 'Real Name' section. Without something to reference your post by, they just disappear. Now, Yahoo may have improved things since I lost my 'boyblue' account, so perhaps it is no longer an issue. But if you make substantial posts in discussions then you certainly want to protect that. So, add /anything/ to the 'Real Name' section of your Profile and you will be safe. Losing your Yahoo account can come out of the blue without you actually having violated terms of service. It comes without explanation and without appeal. Better safe than sorry. Steve/bboyminn From random832 at fastmail.us Sat Aug 25 03:29:38 2007 From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:29:38 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Of human errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CFA222.6090304@fastmail.us> I know, stale topic. I've fallen behind on OTChatter. justcarol67 wrote: > http://www.pubserv.com/Pubserv/EditLevels.html > > If the editor in charge tells the copyeditor to do a light edit and he > or she does a medium edit, the copyeditor will get a reprimand or even > a warning. (Do this again and you'll lose your job.) If he or she is > told to do a light edit and does a heavy edit, he or she will almost > certainly be fired. The list at your URL gives not a list of what is _done_ for a heavy edit, but what factors, if present, make one necessary. That seems to tell me that there is a process in place for saying "OK, this, this, and this, really look kind of messed up, and we might need a heavy edit, what should I do?" - the part about medium edits specifically talks about reporting to management, describing problems if they think a medium edit may be necessary. And I cannot see why this was not done, or, if it was done, why it was rejected. From random832 at fastmail.us Sat Aug 25 04:08:47 2007 From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:08:47 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CFAB4F.5020605@fastmail.us> >>> Geoff: >>> Two points. >>> >>> "Largesse" and "politesse" are pronounced differently, the former >> having a soft `s' sound and the latter hard. >>> I pronounce all these words with the same `e' sound. > Merriam-Webster, with respect, cannot legislate or dictate for > regional or national pronunciations. In addition to the two areas > I mentioned above, I now live in the West Country which has a much > broader, rural dialect. "hard 's' sound" has no consistent meaning. Most commonly in google results, one is /s/ and the other is /z/, but there's no consistency on which is which, and it's roughly evenly split. More rarely, the 'ss'/B thing in german is referred to as a hard s (with normal s being soft), 'sh' is referred to as soft (with normal s being hard). So, which do you mean here? > For example, we have had discussions on this group over examples > like Sirius/serious where US speakers, apparently, use the same > pronunciation whereas native UK speakers can distinguish between > the two. Despite the comparatively narrow range of dialectal variation in the US as compared to the UK (I rather doubt that ALL "native UK speakers" distinguish them), there are at least some US dialects that keep the distinction. (for me, "serious" has a slightly longer sound for the first vowel). It is close enough for a pun, though. > > > ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ > > The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them! > http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2 > > Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > From random832 at fastmail.us Sat Aug 25 04:09:58 2007 From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:09:58 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CFAB96.3050509@fastmail.us> justcarol67 wrote: > Carol, hoping that someone else will come up with another "-esse" word > to help her out finesse. From marion11111 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 12:44:07 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 12:44:07 -0000 Subject: Of human errors In-Reply-To: <46CFA222.6090304@fastmail.us> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 wrote: > > I know, stale topic. I've fallen behind on OTChatter. > > justcarol67 wrote: > > http://www.pubserv.com/Pubserv/EditLevels.html > > > > If the editor in charge tells the copyeditor to do a light edit and he > > or she does a medium edit, the copyeditor will get a reprimand or even > > a warning. (Do this again and you'll lose your job.) If he or she is > > told to do a light edit and does a heavy edit, he or she will almost > > certainly be fired. > > The list at your URL gives not a list of what is _done_ for a heavy > edit, but what factors, if present, make one necessary. That seems to > tell me that there is a process in place for saying "OK, this, this, and > this, really look kind of messed up, and we might need a heavy edit, > what should I do?" - the part about medium edits specifically talks > about reporting to management, describing problems if they think a > medium edit may be necessary. And I cannot see why this was not done, > or, if it was done, why it was rejected. > These guidelines seem to be primarliy for factual works since they discuss checking facts, etc. I wonder how a publisher decides that a fiction work needs editing to keep the story consistent. Scholastic has done that type of editing before when they messed up the wand order in GoF and when they added that strange line on the tower about Draco pretending to be dead in HBP. I suppose because they're editing to change British expressions to American, they sneak in some other edits. I would imagine that after the above mentioned editing errors, they've been told to leave the story alone. I also think that since these books will sell like hotcakes no matter how many plotholes there are, why should anyone spend the money on a heavy edit. And. . . I suspect that no one wants to offend JKR's ego which seems to be very strong. From jnferr at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 13:18:35 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:18:35 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <46CFAB4F.5020605@fastmail.us> References: <46CFAB4F.5020605@fastmail.us> Message-ID: <8ee758b40708250618y95aa8cbx2fa7e0a2db4b2e44@mail.gmail.com> On 8/24/07, Random832 wrote: > > >>> Geoff: > > > Despite the comparatively narrow range of dialectal variation in the US > as compared to the UK (I rather doubt that ALL "native UK speakers" > distinguish them), there are at least some US dialects that keep the > distinction. (for me, "serious" has a slightly longer sound for the > first vowel). It is close enough for a pun, though. montims: speaking as a native UK speaker, I cannot think of any part of the UK that would not distinguish easily between Sirius and serious. It is not that close. As always, I am ready to be corrected, but IME where the pronunciation would differ from county to county would be in the r, NOT in the vowel... Pit and peat, bit and beat, Sirius and serious - the vowels are discrete. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sat Aug 25 17:42:30 2007 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:42:30 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote: > > Speaking of dear Pius, did anyone find it troubling that he's treated > as a bad guy during the battle even though he was Imperiused? > Essentially, he's Yaxley's puppet from the first chapter, not a DE. I think I was somehow spoiled about that, in which case I don't know how I would have felt if not spoiled. Two possiblities sprang to mind. First, that he was a bad guy because he had been so very gullible about trusting Yaxley. Second, that the Imperius simply freed him to do what he really wanted to do, ally with LV and the Death Eaters. I reject -- it is NOT POSSIBLE that that JKR could *approve* of Percy getting revenge for how much he's suffered in the Ministry by taking vengeance on someone who is basically 'innocent by reason of insanity: if Thicknesse was no more aware of what he was doing to Percy than if he'd been asleep at the time, that counts as innocent by reason of insanity. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Aug 25 17:52:33 2007 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:52:33 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708250618y95aa8cbx2fa7e0a2db4b2e44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette wrote: << speaking as a native UK speaker, I cannot think of any part of the UK that would not distinguish easily between Sirius and serious. It is not that close. As always, I am ready to be corrected, but IME where the pronunciation would differ from county to county would be in the r, NOT in the vowel... Pit and peat, bit and beat, Sirius and serious - the vowels are discrete. >> I am a native of Los Angelenos. I believe I have no accent, except American. I pronounce the first syllables if Sirius and serious the same as I pronounce the one-syllable words seer and sear. Which I do not pronounce 'see - er' (one who sees), nor do I pronunce any of them with a truly long 'e' like see. From marion11111 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 20:39:07 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:39:07 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette wrote: > > << speaking as a native UK speaker, I cannot think of any part of the > UK that would not distinguish easily between Sirius and serious. It > is not that close. As always, I am ready to be corrected, but IME > where the pronunciation would differ from county to county would be in > the r, NOT in the vowel... Pit and peat, bit and beat, Sirius and > serious - the vowels are discrete. >> > > I am a native of Los Angelenos. I believe I have no accent, except > American. I pronounce the first syllables if Sirius and serious the > same as I pronounce the one-syllable words seer and sear. Which I do > not pronounce 'see - er' (one who sees), nor do I pronunce any of them > with a truly long 'e' like see. > In Minnesota, "seer" is a two syllable word while sear is one. Pit and Peat, bit and beat have VERY different vowel sounds, but serious and Sirius are identical unless someone is trying to sound affected (no offense, but it would sound affected here) and pronounce the first syllable of Sirius as "Sir" as in To Sir with Love. I can always tell which of my students have not read the books, but have only watched the movie when they turn in a book report and mention Serious Black. From random832 at fastmail.us Sat Aug 25 21:09:29 2007 From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:09:29 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D09A89.6050107@fastmail.us> Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote: > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette wrote: > > << speaking as a native UK speaker, I cannot think of any part of the > UK that would not distinguish easily between Sirius and serious. It > is not that close. As always, I am ready to be corrected, but IME > where the pronunciation would differ from county to county would be in > the r, NOT in the vowel... Pit and peat, bit and beat, Sirius and > serious - the vowels are discrete. >> > > I am a native of Los Angelenos. I believe I have no accent, except > American. There is no "American" accent, and the most "generic" one (by consensus) is native to eastern Nebraska, not to southern california. Though, to be fair, the differences between american accents are subtle: - details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_English#Phonology > I pronounce the first syllables if Sirius and serious the > same as I pronounce the one-syllable words seer and sear. Which I do > not pronounce 'see - er' (one who sees), nor do I pronunce any of them > with a truly long 'e' like see. The one in "sirius" should be shorter, like the other person said, like the 'i' in 'pit'. I think that maybe it's not so much that you don't make the distinction between the sounds as you'd never heard "sirius" pronounced properly, and constructed your own pronunciation by analogy to 'serious'. It is, though, a very subtle distinction, and close enough for a pun, so it might be that you are in fact able to make the distinction but just not describing it correctly. From random832 at fastmail.us Sat Aug 25 21:14:24 2007 From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:14:24 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D09BB0.6050305@fastmail.us> marion11111 wrote: > In Minnesota, "seer" is a two syllable word while sear is one. Pit and Peat, bit and beat > have VERY different vowel sounds, but serious and Sirius are identical unless someone is > trying to sound affected (no offense, but it would sound affected here) and pronounce the > first syllable of Sirius as "Sir" as in To Sir with Love. That's not only affected, it's incorrect. The symbol shown in the dictionary is a short 'i' (the same vowel as "sit"), not a "schwa" (upside-down 'e' symbol). The main problem with "Sirius" is _not_ whether it's identical to "Serious" in any dialect, but the fact that it's an uncommon word, which means it's not in the usual vocabulary so people will make their own pronunciation for it (whether by analogy to "serious", or an affected one incorrectly deriving from "sir") that aren't necessarily related to anything in their dialect. From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 26 15:46:03 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 26 Aug 2007 15:46:03 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/26/2007, 11:00 am Message-ID: <1188143163.9.6452.m56@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 26, 2007 11:00 am - 12:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 26 17:44:47 2007 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 26 Aug 2007 17:44:47 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 8/26/2007, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1188150287.22.9612.m45@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday August 26, 2007 1:00 pm - 1:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2007 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From snapes_witch at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 22:30:05 2007 From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:30:05 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <46D09BB0.6050305@fastmail.us> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 wrote: > > That's not only affected, it's incorrect. The symbol shown in the > dictionary is a short 'i' (the same vowel as "sit"), not a "schwa" > (upside-down 'e' symbol). > > The main problem with "Sirius" is _not_ whether it's identical to > "Serious" in any dialect, but the fact that it's an uncommon word, which > means it's not in the usual vocabulary so people will make their own > pronunciation for it (whether by analogy to "serious", or an affected > one incorrectly deriving from "sir") that aren't necessarily related to > anything in their dialect. > Since I've never made a distinction between 'Sirius' and 'serious' I thought I'd look them up in the American Heritage Dictionary. Guess what? The proper pronunciation of the 'i' in Sirius *is* the same as pit/sit. Who knew? I'll be danged if this Hoosier can get it right though. As I seldom, if ever, pronounce Sirius out loud, I don't think I'll worry about it! LOL Snape's Witch From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 23:43:10 2007 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:43:10 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Catlady: > I reject -- it is NOT POSSIBLE that that JKR could *approve* of > Percy getting revenge for how much he's suffered in the Ministry > by taking vengeance on someone who is basically 'innocent by > reason of insanity: if Thicknesse was no more aware of what he > was doing to Percy than if he'd been asleep at the time, that > counts as innocent by reason of insanity. Goddlefrood: The expression you are perhaps looking for is automatism. This, in the real legal world, would be the equivalent of being placed under an Imperius curse. The curse supposedly puts him or her cursed in the total control of the person casting the curse, thus losing any conscious control whatsoever. That's automatism, non-insane automatism possibly ;-). I wonder, in respect of the other posts on this thread, whether the word sere has been considered. Sirius and serious are so different in the way they would be pronounced by myself, another native English speaker, that there really is no confusion at all, but then as an esteemed former tennis champion from New York once said: "You cannot be Sirius", when addressing an umpire whose name was indeed something else. Chin chin Goddlefrood From sweetophelia4u at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 00:31:40 2007 From: sweetophelia4u at yahoo.com (Dondee Gorski) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:31:40 -0000 Subject: Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Mhochberg at ... wrote: > So what is the name of the seven Harry Potter books? Just plain "Harry > Potter"? > > ---Mary I always just say "The Potter books." No one has ever not known what I meant. Cheers, Dondee From retired153 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 00:47:46 2007 From: retired153 at yahoo.com (j15300) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:47:46 -0000 Subject: Jack Sarfatti tonight (Sunday) on "Coast" Message-ID: First hour tonight on "Coast" radio, a rare interview with a rare individual: Jack Sarfatti, whose books are described as "Harry Potter for adults." "Super Cosmos" is his latest. As a child, JS received unusual phone calls (which his mother likewise listened in on), described future events in Jack's life--which were proven correct. He has been connected with mysterious sponsors and interesting government programs. A fascinating CV and a highly intelligent, controversial individual, whose physics continues to confound, amaze, and illuminate. http://www.coasttocoastam.com click on "Affiliates" button for local broadcast time. Http://www.stardrive.org/title.shtml is a JS webpage. From ekrdg at verizon.net Mon Aug 27 00:50:14 2007 From: ekrdg at verizon.net (Kimberly) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:50:14 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter? References: Message-ID: <056001c7e844$3cff1a40$2d01a8c0@MainComputer> > So what is the name of the seven Harry Potter books? Just plain "Harry > Potter"? > > ---Mary >I always just say "The Potter books." No one has ever not known what I >meant. >Cheers, Dondee Kimberly: When I refer to them I also say "The Harry Potter books" or I'll say, "I'm a HUGE Potter fan". Most people know what I'm talking about. The NY Times has it listed as "Harry Potter". The #2 best selling series is called "Twilight Saga", which I am also a big fan of. I was surprised to see how fast DH was bumped out of the #1 spot when replaced by Twilight's Eclipse. I can't find DH on any of the best-seller lists now except for the Potter series ? Is that right ? Kimberly From marion11111 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 01:46:58 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 01:46:58 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Snape" wrote: > > Since I've never made a distinction between 'Sirius' and 'serious' I > thought I'd look them up in the American Heritage Dictionary. > > Guess what? The proper pronunciation of the 'i' in Sirius *is* the > same as pit/sit. Who knew? I'll be danged if this Hoosier can get it > right though. As I seldom, if ever, pronounce Sirius out loud, I don't > think I'll worry about it! LOL > > Snape's Witch > So, I tried this with sirius/serious (same for me) and if I stop right at the vowel sound, my mouth is making the shape of the "i" in "pit," but as soon as I add the "r" the vowel gets longer. I took a linguisitics class in college as a fluff-general-elective. I can't remember what it's called, but the 'r' makes a change in the vowel pronounciation. And it varies from region to region. Hey, there you go - are "very" and "vary" the same for you? They are for me. From kismit1496 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 02:28:59 2007 From: kismit1496 at yahoo.com (Julie Borgmann) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67497.69772.qm@web60921.mail.yahoo.com> Its called an R controlled vowel! marion11111 wrote: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Snape" wrote: > > Since I've never made a distinction between 'Sirius' and 'serious' I > thought I'd look them up in the American Heritage Dictionary. > > Guess what? The proper pronunciation of the 'i' in Sirius *is* the > same as pit/sit. Who knew? I'll be danged if this Hoosier can get it > right though. As I seldom, if ever, pronounce Sirius out loud, I don't > think I'll worry about it! LOL > > Snape's Witch > So, I tried this with sirius/serious (same for me) and if I stop right at the vowel sound, my mouth is making the shape of the "i" in "pit," but as soon as I add the "r" the vowel gets longer. I took a linguisitics class in college as a fluff-general-elective. I can't remember what it's called, but the 'r' makes a change in the vowel pronounciation. And it varies from region to region. Hey, there you go - are "very" and "vary" the same for you? They are for me. Have you donated blood lately? A child like mine may need it! Mom to Kaleigh age 6 in remission for aplastic anemia 1 year!!! www.aamds.org Also proud mama to two very active healthy boys: Ryan almost 9 and Tyler pushin 3 --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jnferr at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 02:55:00 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:55:00 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708261955g917ec19xa8dd4dd512577fb0@mail.gmail.com> marion11111 wrote: > > > Hey, there you go - are "very" and "vary" the same for you? They are for > me. montims: no - for me, they are quite different, differing like heaven and haven. The r does not change the vowel for me, whatever the vowel is, but then I do not sound the r as strongly as most Americans I hear. I use the schwah a lot - moth*, fath*, calend*, etc, etc, where * stands for the upside down e, and sounds a bit (but not very much) like uh... Americans seem to say motherr, fatherr, etc... And Sirius rhymes with "sit with us", where serious rhymes with "she me us". [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 18:23:46 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:23:46 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <46D09A89.6050107@fastmail.us> Message-ID: Random832 wrote: > There is no "American" accent, and the most "generic" one (by consensus) is native to eastern Nebraska, not to southern california. > > Though, to be fair, the differences between american accents are subtle: > - details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_English#Phonology > > > I pronounce the first syllables if Sirius and serious the same as I pronounce the one-syllable words seer and sear. Which I do not pronounce 'see - er' (one who sees), nor do I pronunce any of them with a truly long 'e' like see. > > The one in "sirius" should be shorter, like the other person said, like the 'i' in 'pit'. I think that maybe it's not so much that you don't make the distinction between the sounds as you'd never heard "sirius" pronounced properly, and constructed your own pronunciation by analogy to 'serious'. It is, though, a very subtle distinction, and close enough for a pun, so it might be that you are in fact able to make the distinction but just not describing it correctly. Carol responds: Speaking only for myself as an American from Arizona with no identifiable regional accent (but a few personal idiosyncracies such as "puh JAH muhs" rather than "puh JAM muhs" for "pajamas"), I pronounce both "Sirius" and "serious" exactly as "Sirius" is pronounced in the films (SIH ree us). IOW, I see no difference. Or, rather, I see the difference in writing, but I hear no difference. So it's still hard for me to imagine the Muggle prime minister in HBP mispronouncing the name as "Serious Black." For that matter, "feint" and "faint" sound the same to me, so "Wonky Faint" for "Wronski Feint" loses half of its humor when I hear it in my head. Carol, who would agrees with a previous poster that an American pronouncing "serious" as "SEE ree us" would sound affected and doesn't know anyone who would do so From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 18:33:50 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:33:50 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Marion1111 wrote: > > So, I tried this with sirius/serious (same for me) and if I stop right at the vowel sound, my mouth is making the shape of the "i" in "pit," but as soon as I add the "r" the vowel gets longer. I took a linguisitics class in college as a fluff-general-elective. I can't remember what it's called, but the 'r' makes a change in the vowel pronounciation. And it varies from region to region. Hey, there you go - are "very" and "vary" the same for you? They are for me. > Carol: Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. As for Brits from various regions, I have no idea. Carol, who also took a linguistics class and had to *feel* the difference between the "ah" sounds in "father" and "hot" in her mouth and throat because she can't *hear* any difference From snapes_witch at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 19:29:15 2007 From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:29:15 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "marion11111" wrote: > > Hey, there you go - are "very" and "vary" the same for you? They are for > me. > Yes, they are. I tried Sirius once more and *finally* got it! LOL Seems to me the word divides more like 'si-ri-us' instead of 'sir-i-us' as it is in the dictionary. That takes care of my difficulty with the 'r' sound. Snape's Witch From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Aug 27 21:15:51 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:15:51 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Marion1111 wrote: > > > > So, I tried this with sirius/serious (same for me) and if I stop > right at the vowel sound, my mouth is making the shape of the "i" in > "pit," but as soon as I add the "r" the vowel gets longer. I took a > linguisitics class in college as a fluff-general-elective. I can't > remember what it's called, but the 'r' makes a change in the vowel > pronounciation. And it varies from region to region. Hey, there you > go - are "very" and "vary" the same for you? They are for me. > > > > Carol: > Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though > I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may > distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. > As for Brits from various regions, I have no idea. > > Carol, who also took a linguistics class and had to *feel* the > difference between the "ah" sounds in "father" and "hot" in her mouth > and throat because she can't *hear* any difference Geoff: Thise three would certainly not be anything like homonyms to the majority of native UK English speakers. Going off at a tangent, another interesting topic is UK/US spelling. It struck me that all the -or/-our variants such as honor/honour and so on, I would never spell without the 'u' because I include the two vowels in my pronunciation. Mark you, I'm venturing onto dangerous ground with variant spelling. I think a tin hat is needed. :-) From marion11111 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 23:11:48 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:11:48 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though > I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may > distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. marion11111: All identical for me, too. I'm Minnesotan and we are Midwestern geographically, but not linguistically, I think. Speaking of US/UK pronounciations. When in London, my *very* broad American vowels caused confusion every single time I asked someone to recommend a shop (for shoes, sweaters, etc.) It took me awhile to realize that I pronounce "shop" in a way that sounds like I'm describing the edge of a knife! From bboyminn at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 23:17:51 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:17:51 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- I "Carol" wrote: ... > > Carol, who would agrees with a previous poster that > an American pronouncing "serious" as "SEE ree us" > would sound affected and doesn't know anyone who > would do so.. > bboyminn: I'm surprised this conversation is still going on since the answer seems obvious. The original question, How do you pronounce 'Thicknesse', as been answered from a variety of sources including JKR and from Jim Dale and Stephen Fry. As to Sirius vs Serious, I think we are running into a conflict between Common pronunciation, or pronunciation in the vernacular, and technically correct pronunciation. In common speech, they are virtually the same. I think most people would pronounce then exactly the same, and make no distinction at all. However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle technical difference, that is difficult to explain. The best I can show is - sear-ee-us (Sirius) and sear-ee-os (serious) There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious, that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'. Diverging off onto a tangent- If you are ever in Texas, ask a native speaker to say these two words - ALL and OIL. They both sound the same to an outsider, but Texans can tell the difference. Next ask them to say - SEX and SAX, again, the same to an outsider, but distinctly different to a Texan. "Why don't you ALL come to Texan and we'll ALL each other up and have SAX while my friend watches and plays his SAX." To a Texan, that makes sense. I say technically there is a subtle difference between Serious and Sirius, but from the perspective of common everyday speech, they are essentially the same. British - glacier - glah-see-ear American - glacier - glay-shear Lots of talking...said nothing. Steve/bboyminn From marion11111 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 23:25:37 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:25:37 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > bboyminn: > > Lots of talking...said nothing. > > Steve/bboyminn That's why it's called "Chatter." Pretend we've all had a few beers - this would all seem incredibly important. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 23:31:45 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:31:45 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "marion11111" wrote: > > > > > bboyminn: > > > > Lots of talking...said nothing. > > > > Steve/bboyminn > marion: > > That's why it's called "Chatter." Pretend we've > all had a few beers - this would all seem > incredibly important. > bboyminn: Just so we are clear "Lots of talking...said nothing" was a reference to my own post. Could I have Gin and Tonic instead of Beer? Steve/bboyminn From marion11111 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 23:38:48 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:38:48 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > > --- "marion11111" wrote: > > > > > > > > bboyminn: > > > > > > Lots of talking...said nothing. > > > > > > Steve/bboyminn > > > > marion: > > > > That's why it's called "Chatter." Pretend we've > > all had a few beers - this would all seem > > incredibly important. > > > > bboyminn: > > Just so we are clear "Lots of talking...said nothing" > was a reference to my own post. > > Could I have Gin and Tonic instead of Beer? > > Steve/bboyminn > Don't worry - I knew what you meant. And as long as we're switching orders, I might just have a big piece of chocolate cake instead of that beer! marion From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 00:18:37 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:18:37 -0000 Subject: Art Imitates Life Message-ID: On a fresh re-read of DH, and, reading at a casual pace, has opened my eyes to little things I didn't see before. Like- "Potterwatch" A bunch of guy rambling on about Harry Potter on the Wizard's Wireless. "Pottercast" A bunch of guys rambling on about Harry Potter on the Internet. Coincidence? I don't think so. Dan gets a nude scene. Coincidence? I don't think so. Anything I missed? Steve/bboyminn From jnferr at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 01:00:45 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:00:45 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708271800wc687464gae36f9eda63e6ead@mail.gmail.com> > > > Carol: > > Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though > > I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may > > distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. montims: but surely... is it the r that causes this problem? Because the vowel sounds are the same as heaven, haven't, haven. What about Harry and hairy? Do they sound the same? Truly, they are all enunciated very differently (as opposed to variedly...) by this Brit... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jnferr at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 01:43:46 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:43:46 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708271843m115d1b10kdba31670c3fe1060@mail.gmail.com> > > bboyminn: > > I'm surprised this conversation is still going on since > the answer seems obvious. > > As to Sirius vs Serious, I think we are running into > a conflict between Common pronunciation, or pronunciation > in the vernacular, and technically correct pronunciation. > > In common speech, they are virtually the same. I think > most people would pronounce then exactly the same, and > make no distinction at all. > > However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle > technical difference, that is difficult to explain. > > The best I can show is - > > sear-ee-us (Sirius) > > and > > sear-ee-os (serious) > > There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious, > that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'. I say technically there is a subtle difference between Serious and Sirius, but from the perspective of common everyday speech, they are essentially the same. British - glacier - glah-see-ear American - glacier - glay-shear montims: and Steve - I'm so sorry to keep thrashing a dead horse, but what you have said may apply to an American accent, but is not correct from a British point of view. They are NOT the same in Brit speak. As I have said before, they are as discrete as sit and seat, hip and heap... The difference is in the first syllable - the second and third syllables of both Sirius and serious sound identical to us. Whether speaking "properly" or in the vernacular... And glacier would be glay-see-ah for most Brits from the Midlands down. Probably, though I am no expert, glay-see-err in the north. (An aside - I would have loved to have heard both Petunia and Snape speaking in the northern accent that is assumed from Spinners End - she would have sounded beautifully "posh", and his sarcasm would have sounded wonderful). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From stacygalore at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 03:13:31 2007 From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:13:31 -0000 Subject: Art Imitates Life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Steve" wrote: > On a fresh re-read of DH, and, reading at a casual > pace, has opened my eyes to little things I didn't > see before. Like- > > "Potterwatch" > > A bunch of guy rambling on about Harry Potter on the > Wizard's Wireless. > > "Pottercast" > > A bunch of guys rambling on about Harry Potter on > the Internet. > > Coincidence? I don't think so. > > Dan gets a nude scene. Coincidence? I don't think so. > > > Anything I missed? > > Steve/bboyminn Stacy here: I was thinking the same thing, Re: the nude scene. In fact, reading that chapter reminded me about Equus, which I only heard about briefly a while back. I was curious, so I Googled photos of Daniel Radcliffe. I found the racy advertisement poster and thought, "So that's what Harry looks like naked and without glasses." But do you think JKR already had book 7 finished by the time Dan Rad performed in Equus? From pbarhug at earthlink.net Tue Aug 28 14:51:04 2007 From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:51:04 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Mary? Merry? Marry? (WAS: Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708271800wc687464gae36f9eda63e6ead@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001801c7e982$dbe5f6d0$0401000a@owner47xh2c046> _____ From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janette Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:01 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation > > > Carol: > > Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though > > I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may > > distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. Where I am from (Maryland aka Mur-land), all those words would be pronounced like "murray." With my mother being born and raised in this area and my father from the Midwest, there was much confusion as to the pronunciation of many words (at least among us kids). I guess I picked up a more Midwestern (?) pronunciation and would clearly articulate each of those words differently. montims: but surely... is it the r that causes this problem? Because the vowel sounds are the same as heaven, haven't, haven. What about Harry and hairy? Do they sound the same? Truly, they are all enunciated very differently (as opposed to variedly...) by this Brit... Yes, the r does have a great deal to do with it, but there are (to me at least) differences in the vowel sounds as well with Mary and marry having a more broad flat a sound than the soft e of merry. The pronunciation of Harry can vary greatly as well. My youngest son is Harry and we frequently hear people pronounce his name as "Hear-ry" or with a very nasal a that sounds very much like the word "hairy." It makes him crazy-he frequently corrects his friends on the pronunciation of his name. pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From random832 at fastmail.us Tue Aug 28 15:50:47 2007 From: random832 at fastmail.us (random832 at fastmail.us) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:50:47 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1188316247.18655.1207690387@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:17:51 -0000, "Steve" said: > --- I "Carol" wrote: > ... > > > > Carol, who would agrees with a previous poster that > > an American pronouncing "serious" as "SEE ree us" > > would sound affected and doesn't know anyone who > > would do so.. > > > > bboyminn: > > I'm surprised this conversation is still going on since > the answer seems obvious. > > The original question, How do you pronounce 'Thicknesse', > as been answered from a variety of sources including > JKR and from Jim Dale and Stephen Fry. > > As to Sirius vs Serious, I think we are running into > a conflict between Common pronunciation, or pronunciation > in the vernacular, and technically correct pronunciation. > > In common speech, they are virtually the same. I think > most people would pronounce then exactly the same, and > make no distinction at all. > > However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle > technical difference, that is difficult to explain. > > The best I can show is - > > sear-ee-us (Sirius) > > and > > sear-ee-os (serious) > > There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious, > that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'. > > Diverging off onto a tangent- > > If you are ever in Texas, ask a native speaker to > say these two words - ALL and OIL. They both sound > the same to an outsider, I suspect, based on no evidence (other than the fact that if there _is_ a real difference not detectable to everyone, this is overwhelmingly likely to be it), that they only sound the same to an outsider who has the caught-cot merger (though clearly that's not the only thing going on) for more details on the caught-cot merger, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_the_low_back_vowels As for sirius/serious - the "technical" difference that the rest of us have been talking about is the vowel in the first syllable: This is actually shown as different in dictionary pronunciation keys, whereas the final syllable is shown as identical. I don't think it's actually a phonological matter like these other things people have been bringing up, but rather of "sirius" being an uncommon word, and people thinking "this looks like it could be pronounced the same as 'serious'" -- Random832 From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Aug 28 18:29:58 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:29:58 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though > I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may > distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. > As for Brits from various regions, I have no idea. > Potioncat; Well I "see" merry differently, but I think I hear them all the same. Don't ask what I mean by that, but it makes sense to me. Our daughter's name is Sarah, a pretty name I think, but even I cringe when we visit my relatives in Southern US where her name becomes Say- ruh. And of course, Kathleen is three syllables. Back to Serious/Sirius. Must be my Southern ears. The i and e sound alike, which is why I ask for a straight pin or an ink pen when I want either, because otherwise how would you know which to give me? From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 22:48:05 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:48:05 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff: > > Going off at a tangent, another interesting topic is UK/US spelling. It struck me that all the -or/-our variants such as honor/honour and so on, I would never spell without the 'u' because I include the two vowels in my pronunciation. > > Mark you, I'm venturing onto dangerous ground with variant spelling. I think a tin hat is needed. :-) > Carol responds: For the record, Noah Webster is responsible for eliminating the "u" for "colour," "honour," etc. I assume that for him as for me, the unaccented vowel is a schwa, so any vowel will do to represent it. I certainly don't hear an "ou" sound as in "our"/"hour." More like "er" as in "erm"! Speaking of which, I think he also originated the transposition of the "e" and "r" in "center" and "theater." Carol, wondering whether Noah was also responsible for substituting "ize" for "ise" but too lazy to do the research From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 23:17:01 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:17:01 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn: > > I'm surprised this conversation is still going on since > the answer seems obvious. > > The original question, How do you pronounce 'Thicknesse', > as been answered from a variety of sources including > JKR and from Jim Dale and Stephen Fry. > > As to Sirius vs Serious, I think we are running into > a conflict between Common pronunciation, or pronunciation > in the vernacular, and technically correct pronunciation. > > In common speech, they are virtually the same. I think > most people would pronounce then exactly the same, and > make no distinction at all. > > However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle > technical difference, that is difficult to explain. > > The best I can show is - > > sear-ee-us (Sirius) > > and > > sear-ee-os (serious) > > There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious, > that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'. > > Diverging off onto a tangent- > > If you are ever in Texas, ask a native speaker to > say these two words - ALL and OIL. They both sound > the same to an outsider, but Texans can tell the > difference. Next ask them to say - SEX and SAX, > again, the same to an outsider, but distinctly > different to a Texan. > > "Why don't you ALL come to Texan and we'll ALL each > other up and have SAX while my friend watches and > plays his SAX." > > To a Texan, that makes sense. > > I say technically there is a subtle difference between > Serious and Sirius, but from the perspective of > common everyday speech, they are essentially the same. > > British - glacier - glah-see-ear > > American - glacier - glay-shear > > Lots of talking...said nothing. > > Steve/bboyminn > Carol responds: I don't know any American who pronounces the "-ous" in "serious" with any kind of "o" sound. It's just a schwa. And I think the Brits distinguish between the accented vowels in the first syllables of "serious" and "Sirius," not the unaccented final syllable. (I'm not sure about the middle syllable, which for me is a long "e" sound, ee, with a secondary accent in both words.) There's a shade of difference in the pronunciation of the two words at Merriam-Webster Online, but, for the life of me, I can't put my finger (or ear) on it. As for "glacier," that's also a schwa for me--GLAY shur. No recognizable vowel sound in the second syllable, just a kind of space-holder vowel. (BTW, part of the confusion we're experiencing is misinterpretation of the pronunciation keys in various dictionaries. What Merriam-Webster, for example, renders as "sir" (for the first syllable of both "serious" and "Sirius") is roughly "sihr" has no relationship to the word "sir," in which the "i" is a schwa. The effect of the "r" isn't accounted for in the symbols used, either.) Speaking of U.S. Southern dialects (if Texas counts as Southern), I spent about fifteen months many years ago in No'Ca'lina, where they change tires with "tahr ahrns," so I'm familiar with "all" in a car engine. While I was there, I encountered a little girl from Tennessee who told me that her name was "Tur." When I asked her how to spell that, she said "T-e-r-r-y." I said, "Oh, Terry! What a pretty name." Carol, still shaking her head after all these years over poor little "Tur" From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 23:29:24 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:29:24 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708271800wc687464gae36f9eda63e6ead@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > > Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three. > > > montims: > but surely... is it the r that causes this problem? Because the vowel sounds are the same as heaven, haven't, haven. What about Harry and hairy? > Do they sound the same? Truly, they are all enunciated very differently (as opposed to variedly...) by this Brit... Carol: Nope. The vowel sounds (for me and Americans like me) are all a short e (altered by the "r," true, but in the same way for all three words), so I think they would all rhyme with your pronunciation of "very"). And, yes, "hairy" and "Harry" sound the same to me. So, "Have a very merry Christmas, Harry," involves three rhyming words and could be spelled "Have a vary marry Christmas, Hairy," with great harm to the sense and grammar but none at all to the sound of the sentence. "Harry" and "Mary" also rhyme (for me). BTW, when I was in London and asked the cost of overseas postage, I was immediately asked, "To America?" Pretty clearly, I don't sound anything like an Englishwoman. Carol, who did rather enjoy being addressed as "love" (or is it "luv"?) by the bus drivers From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Wed Aug 29 22:28:07 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:28:07 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: > bboyminn: > As to Sirius vs Serious, I think we are running into > a conflict between Common pronunciation, or pronunciation > in the vernacular, and technically correct pronunciation. > > In common speech, they are virtually the same. I think > most people would pronounce then exactly the same, and > make no distinction at all. > > However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle > technical difference, that is difficult to explain. > > The best I can show is - > > sear-ee-us (Sirius) > > and > > sear-ee-os (serious) > > There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious, > that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'. Geoff: In UK terms, the pronuncaiton would be approximately: Sirius = si-ri-us Serious = see-ri-us The stress would be identical. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Thu Aug 30 17:55:27 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:55:27 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > > --- "Steve" wrote: > > > bboyminn: > > > ... > > > > In common speech, they are virtually the same. ... > > > > However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle > > technical difference, that is difficult to explain. > > > > The best I can show is - > > > > sear-ee-us (Sirius) > > > > and > > > > sear-ee-os (serious) > > > > There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious, > > that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'. > > Geoff: > In UK terms, the pronunciation would be approximately: > > Sirius = si-ri-us > > Serious = see-ri-us > > The stress would be identical. > bboyminn: Trick business, this pronunciation thing. I do think we can all agree that the difference between Sirius and Serious is extremely subtle, and as I said, nearly to completely non-existent in common speech. A quick look in American Heritage CD-ROM dictionary, indicates that the last part of both words is identical, though I still have my personal doubts. The distinction made on the first part is the difference between a standard short 'I' or 'I' marked with a 'breve' (Sirius), and a 'circumflex' or a 'caret' above the 'I' for the other(serious). Though for the life of me, I can't find any pronunciation guide that explains exactly how a letter modified by a 'circumflex' should be pronounced. Perhaps the difference, as best as I can describe, is similar to this - sear-ee-us sir-ee-us (or alternately sur-ee-us) Though more subtle than I can indicate here in plain text. Still, I personally think if I were going to make a distinction between the two, it would be on the last part not the first part, as I indicated before - sear-ee-us sear-ee-os (but very subtle) But then I always was a little odd. I think even in proper speech, the difference is so very very subtle as to be /nearly/ non-existent. Still amazed that we could spend so much time and so many electron discussing this, but then here I am still discussing it. As I said though, I always was a little odd ;) . Steve/bboyminn From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 30 19:23:02 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:23:02 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn wrote: > > Trick business, this pronunciation thing. I do think > we can all agree that the difference between Sirius > and Serious is extremely subtle, and as I said, nearly > to completely non-existent in common speech. > > A quick look in American Heritage CD-ROM dictionary, > indicates that the last part of both words is identical, > though I still have my personal doubts. > > The distinction made on the first part is the > difference between a standard short 'I' or 'I' marked > with a 'breve' (Sirius), and a 'circumflex' or a 'caret' > above the 'I' for the other(serious). Though for the > life of me, I can't find any pronunciation guide that > explains exactly how a letter modified by a 'circumflex' > should be pronounced. Carol responds: I'm attempting this post in HTML Beta and who knows how it will appear onlist. However, regardless of the dictionary you're citing, "sir" with a breve above the "i" would be a short "i" as in "pit." Try "SIH" "ree us," moving the "r" sound to the second syllable. (The name would *not* be prounounced "SUH ree us" or "SUR ee us" under any circumstances.) "Serious," OTOH, seems to be pronounced (according to American Heritage) with the "r" in the first syllable. The "r" modifies the sound of the short "i" (ih), making it almost a long "e" (ee). If you want a pronunciation key, American Heritage does provide one: http://www.bartleby.com/61/12.html I can't insert the key where I want it or get rid of unwanted elements, but essentially, American Heritage is putting the "r" in the first syllable for "serious," making it equivalent to the "ier" in "pier," but putting the "r" in the second syllable for "Sirius," making the "i" equivalent to the short "i" in "pit." Carol, at last getting the (slight) distinction between "SIH ree us" and "SEER ee us" but not making it herself pit yes y pie, by zebra, xylem z pier ?r [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 30 19:31:37 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:31:37 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol's attempt at copying the pronunciation key: > > pit yes y pie, by zebra, xylem z pier ?r Carol again: So much for HTML Beta! I should have known beta, erm, better. To see the actual pronunciation key, particularly the "pit"/"pier" (breve vs. circumflex) distinction, go to http://www.bartleby.com/61/12.html and scroll down. Carol, who hates pronunciation keys and is not sure whose pronunciation they're supposed to reflect From jnferr at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 20:43:41 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:43:41 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708301343y41480d52y22284b12acbaf053@mail.gmail.com> > > bboyminn wrote: > > > > Trick business, this pronunciation thing. I do think > > we can all agree that the difference between Sirius > > and Serious is extremely subtle, and as I said, nearly > > to completely non-existent in common speech. > > > > A quick look in American Heritage CD-ROM dictionary, > > indicates that the last part of both words is identical, > > though I still have my personal doubts. > > montims: ack, and as we are repeating ourselves - in Britain the difference is as subtle as a sledgehammer, and it is totally existent (is that a word? it is now...) in common speech. Maybe if it had been a book by an American author about American children (a Huck Finn, if you will), the names used would have been different, to reflect local accents. But there is no way that an English speaker (to differentiate from other Brits here), however sloppily s/he spoke, could pronounce Si-rius to sound like se-rious, or be unable to hear the difference... I used to have this problem in Italy, though, when my students could not hear the difference between ship and sheep, lip and leap, sit and seat, etc. Hungry and angry was another case where they couldn't say the vowel difference, though interestingly, they could hear it... But Carol, I have never heard of Hairy rhyming with Harry - interesting... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Aug 30 21:03:58 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:03:58 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation (was Re: Thicknesse) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff: Having read through the thread on pronunciation, I am coming to the conclusion that the problems seem to be mainly arising in local varieties of US English. Just to present my credentials, I am a native UK English speaker and have personally spoken with two accents in my life and now live in the West Country which has its own set of dialects. As a child, I lived in the North of England and grew up using a Lancashire accent. At the age of 9, I moved to London where I came in contact with, first of all, Cockney. Some of the guys in my Junior school and myself spoke `at' each other for the first two weeks or so until translation powers developed. :-) Later, at grammar school, I tried to resist the attempts of one of the English teachers who tried to make me speak "proper" and get rid of my Northern accent. I resented his interference but, ultimately, the result of living in the south and going to a grammar school is that I acquired and still speak with (probably) a middle class southern accent. I asked someone the other day "What accent do you think I have?" and I got the reply "South- eastern, I would say". People who know me well can still pick up residual traces of the north but I suppose I speak what has more recently been tagged as "Estuary English" which is now used to define the accent which has developed around London and along the Thames Valley. I do not know of any English accent which would pronounce "merry", "marry" and "Mary" to sound the same. Likewise "oil" and "all". There has been a supposedly funny version of the books in circulation, involving the adventures of "Hairy Potter and the ." but this is definitely NOT a homophone of Harry in UK English. Returning to dear old serious Sirius, one interesting fact is that, when I talk to the young folk at church and some of the grown ups who are also readers, "Sirius" is always pronounced as I have suggested ? with a short "i" rhyming with "sit" or "pit". This may be partly explained by it being the pronunciation used by the actors in the films. There is also a possible further explanation in that Sirius is a star and there is a long running BBC programme "The Stars at Night" which has always been watched by a surprisingly large audience who will have picked up the pronunciation of the star's name over the years and it has been disseminated by viewers to other interested folk so it is not such an unusual name as might be first thought by folk outside the UK. From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Aug 31 03:50:17 2007 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:50:17 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation (was Re: Thicknesse) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff: > Returning to dear old serious Sirius, one interesting fact is > that, when I talk to the young folk at church and some of the > grown ups who are also readers, "Sirius" is always pronounced > as I have suggested ? with a short "i" rhyming with "sit" or "pit". > This may be partly explained by it being the pronunciation used > by the actors in the films. Potioncat: So, are the actors in the films pronouncing Sirius the way you think it should be? Do they all pronounce it the same? I'm trying to remember who may use his name...I'll have to go watch PoA again. All of us Yanks (and you don't know how it pains me to call myself that) should go listen, and see if we think Sirius still sounds serious. How about Jim Dale? Have any Brits heard his version of PoA to have an opinion? From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Aug 31 06:43:38 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:43:38 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation (was Re: Thicknesse) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > Geoff: > > Returning to dear old serious Sirius, one interesting fact is > > that, when I talk to the young folk at church and some of the > > grown ups who are also readers, "Sirius" is always pronounced > > as I have suggested ? with a short "i" rhyming with "sit" or "pit". > > This may be partly explained by it being the pronunciation used > > by the actors in the films. > > Potioncat: > So, are the actors in the films pronouncing Sirius the way you think it > should be? Do they all pronounce it the same? I'm trying to remember > who may use his name...I'll have to go watch PoA again. > > All of us Yanks (and you don't know how it pains me to call myself > that) should go listen, and see if we think Sirius still sounds > serious. How about Jim Dale? Have any Brits heard his version of PoA to > have an opinion? Geoff: I checked my GOF DVD last night which I just happen to be watching again at the moment and Dan Radcliffe and Emma Watson certainly seem to be using that pronunciation. I've just checked POA this morning and the actors playing Stan Shunpike, Arthur Weasley, Snape, Dumbledore, McGonagall, Fudge and Madam Rosmerta also seem to follow the "UK" pattern. From donnawonna at att.net Fri Aug 31 12:06:50 2007 From: donnawonna at att.net (Donna) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:06:50 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Pronunciation (was Re: Thicknesse) References: Message-ID: <46D8045A.000003.02840@LIFESAVER> For what it's worth, I'm in Dayton, Ohio, born in Kentucky, and I pronounce Sirius the same as Geoff, with a short "i". I definitely do make a difference, slight but different, in the pronunciation of the two words, serious and Sirius. Donna --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > Geoff: > > Returning to dear old serious Sirius, one interesting fact is > > that, when I talk to the young folk at church and some of the > > grown ups who are also readers, "Sirius" is always pronounced > > as I have suggested ? with a short "i" rhyming with "sit" or "pit". > > This may be partly explained by it being the pronunciation used > > by the actors in the films. > > Potioncat: > So, are the actors in the films pronouncing Sirius the way you think it > should be? Do they all pronounce it the same? I'm trying to remember > who may use his name...I'll have to go watch PoA again. > > All of us Yanks (and you don't know how it pains me to call myself > that) should go listen, and see if we think Sirius still sounds > serious. How about Jim Dale? Have any Brits heard his version of PoA to > have an opinion? Geoff: I checked my GOF DVD last night which I just happen to be watching again at the moment and Dan Radcliffe and Emma Watson certainly seem to be using that pronunciation. I've just checked POA this morning and the actors playing Stan Shunpike, Arthur Weasley, Snape, Dumbledore, McGonagall, Fudge and Madam Rosmerta also seem to follow the "UK" pattern. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 14:13:17 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:13:17 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anita_hillin" wrote: > > I will begin by saying I have not read any Neil Gaiman novels (due to > inertia rather than lack of interest), so I went to see "Stardust" > without any preconceived notions. > > We all loved the movie, and I'm now ready to read the source material. > I hear that the movie contains several major departures, which is > even more intriguing to me. > > If anyone who has read the book has also seen the movie, I'd be > interested to hear your views. > > akh, who found Mark Williams howlingly funny as Billy (does that > appear in the book?), and who was informed by her comic-book obsessed > SO that Neil Gaiman started as a comic book writer > Alla: So I only went to see Stardust yesterday and again for myself saw again that it is much better for me to NOT read or reread the book before seeing the movie. Let me explain. I AM a big fun of Neil Gaiman. I pick up Neverwhere at least once a year to reread, I read Good Omens god knows how many times, I am in love with Ananci Boys from his more or less recent books. I not only adore the man as a writer, but he has my deepest respect for not writing several books in short periods of time, you know? ;) So, having said all that I read Stardust LONG time ago, I mean it long time ago and was not very impressed in a sense that I did not want to reread the book. Not that I hated it or anything, I consider several of his books to be extraordinary, this one seemed just Okay, whatever from what I remembered. I pretty much did not remember anything except main premise, ANYTHING. Goodness, I loved, loved the movie. I found it to be fast pacing, exciting, chemistry between Tristan and Iveine to be fascinating, etc, Michelle Pfaifer - so deliciously evil and De Niro - oh so very cute. But heeeee, plot does indeed contains some departures and I already know that had I reread the ending, I would have be annoyed at movie makers for Hollywoodising it too much in my view, but since I did not have a book in my mind to compare - LOVED. Alla From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 14:20:10 2007 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:20:10 -0000 Subject: Stardust, the movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Alla: > > So I only went to see Stardust yesterday and again for myself saw > again that it is much better for me to NOT read or reread the book > before seeing the movie. > > > Let me explain. I AM a big fun of Neil Gaiman. Alla: I am such a big FAN of Neil Gaiman that I cannot even spell it properly. Sheesh. :) From anita_hillin at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 16:37:54 2007 From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (anita_hillin) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:37:54 -0000 Subject: How to address mail to the UK Message-ID: You want off-topic? I got yer off-topic right here! I'm trying to standardize a new database, and our mailing addresses to folks in the UK are - well - all over the map, as it were. Since a fair number of you are either in the UK or likely mail to the UK, what's the standard Country listing? Our system uses England, Ireland, and UK, seemingly in random order (some English addresses are UK; some are England. Ireland seems pretty consistently Ireland; I'm presuming it would say Northern Ireland if it were supposed to be UK.) Does it matter? Am I fretting over nothing? Or, should I change England Scotland and Wales to UK? (I don't think I have any N Ireland addresses right now.) Enquiring minds want to know! akh, who's grimly determined to whip this database into shape! From jnferr at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 17:42:42 2007 From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:42:42 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] How to address mail to the UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ee758b40708311042n511bd7f7w3ec9465477116eda@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/07, anita_hillin wrote: > You want off-topic? I got yer off-topic right here! > > I'm trying to standardize a new database, and our mailing addresses to > folks in the UK are - well - all over the map, as it were. Since a > fair number of you are either in the UK or likely mail to the UK, > what's the standard Country listing? Our system uses England, > Ireland, and UK, seemingly in random order (some English addresses are > UK; some are England. Ireland seems pretty consistently Ireland; I'm > presuming it would say Northern Ireland if it were supposed to be UK.) > > Does it matter? Am I fretting over nothing? Or, should I change > England Scotland and Wales to UK? (I don't think I have any N Ireland > addresses right now.) Enquiring minds want to know! > > akh, who's grimly determined to whip this database into shape! montims: I write to lots of people in England, and I just write United Kingdom, without "England" first. I wouldn't write Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales either - the town, county and postcode if correctly and clearly written should get the mail there ok - the United Kingdom bit is just to make sure post physically gets onto the island, I think... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 21:58:09 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:58:09 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation (was Re: Thicknesse) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff wrote: > I checked my GOF DVD last night which I just happen to be watching again at the moment and Dan Radcliffe and Emma Watson certainly seem to be using that pronunciation. > > I've just checked POA this morning and the actors playing Stan Shunpike, Arthur Weasley, Snape, Dumbledore, McGonagall, Fudge and Madam Rosmerta also seem to follow the "UK" pattern. > Carol responds: The actors don't, however, seem to agree on the pronunciation of "Cruciatus Curse." Neville pronounces "Cruciatus" as I do (krew shee A tus, with an accented short "a"), but Karkaroff has what I would consider a more distinctively British pronunciation (krew shee AY tus), with an accented long "a" rather than a short one. (Karkaroff may have a Slavic name, but he seems to have attended Hogwarts, so he qualifies as a Brit in my view. Of course, the nationality of the actor may be the real deciding factor.) Also Snape's pronunciation of "Veritaserum" as "VAIR ih tuh SEER um" (secondary accent on "seer") caught me offguard the first time around. I pronounce it "vuh RITE uh seer um." Very American of me, I suppose, and not reflective of the long-ago Latin classes I took in my high-school days. BTW, I pronounce "Sirius" exactly as the actors do. It's "serious" that I seem to pronounce differently. Carol, wondering if anyone has listened to the first chapter of HBP on CD recently as that chapter includes the "Serious Black" pun From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 22:07:29 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:07:29 -0000 Subject: How to address mail to the UK In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708311042n511bd7f7w3ec9465477116eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: anita_hillin wrote: > > > You want off-topic? I got yer off-topic right here! > > > > I'm trying to standardize a new database, and our mailing addresses to folks in the UK are - well - all over the map, as it were. Since a fair number of you are either in the UK or likely mail to the UK, what's the standard Country listing? > > montims: > I write to lots of people in England, and I just write United Kingdom, without "England" first. I wouldn't write Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales either - the town, county and postcode if correctly and clearly written should get the mail there ok - the United Kingdom bit is just to make sure post physically gets onto the island, I think... Carol responds: I just ran across a box that I used to mail a few souvenirs that I bought in England to my home address so I wouldn't have to take them on the plane. The return address has London followed by the postal code followed by U.K. That was the address that I used to receive mail as well--no "England" needed. I don't know about other UK countries, but I'm sure montims knows whereof she speaks. Carol, who recommends that Brits writing to the U.S. include the city, state, zip code (postal code), *and* USA From marion11111 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 22:22:56 2007 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:22:56 -0000 Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708301343y41480d52y22284b12acbaf053@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > it... But Carol, I have never heard of Hairy rhyming with Harry - > interesting... > I could say "That boy is Harry" and you would not know if I meant his name or his hairstyle. Back to poor old Sirius. I can't find the post that shows the dictionary pronunciation with the "r" in the second syllable (si ri us), but I've been trying for about ten minutes and CANNOT make my mouth work that way. It comes out all strange and choppy. marion11111 From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 22:45:47 2007 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:45:47 -0000 Subject: High-Definition DVD question Message-ID: I asked this question on the movie list but no one answered it, so I'm repeating it here: Does anyone know whether the OoP film will come out in standard DVD format before it comes out as a high-definition DVD? Also, can you play a high-definition DVD on a standard DVD player, or will viewers be forced to follow along with the new technology as they had to do when DVDs replaced VHS tapes? Carol, who hates being forced to buy new equipment every time technology is "improved" From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 23:06:55 2007 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:06:55 -0000 Subject: Harry and Hairy - The Difference. Message-ID: Once again, since people, especially people in the UK, see a distinct difference between Harry and Hairy, I looked in my dictionary (Am. Heritage CD-ROM) for the difference. I found the difference is roughly the same as Sirius and Serious. Hairy is h?r'ee. The second letter is a circumflex 'A'. As in 'pat'. Harry is har'ee. The second letter is a standard Short 'A'. As in 'pay'. Sirius is sir'ee-es. The second letter is a standard short 'I' as in 'pit'. The second to the last letter is an inverted 'E' as in 'itEm'. Sirious is s?r'ee-es. Second letter circumfles 'I' as in 'peir'. Second to the last letter is an inverted 'E'. Even with this pronunciation clarification. I still see the difference as subtle to nonexistent. Other seem to have indicated they said and heard a distinct difference between 'harry' and 'hairy', though I simply can't imagine what it could be. Care to elaborate? Is it the difference between 'car' and 'air'? Harr-ee and Hair-ee? Pehaps the problem is that we have reached the limits of the extent to which differences can be conveyed in printed words or phrases? Still, even though we haven't really resolved anything, it's been interesting to explore the cultural differences in language. I still say in the region I'm in, in common daily speech, virtually no one would make any distinction between any of the words discussed. Steve/bboyminn From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Aug 31 23:23:06 2007 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:23:06 -0000 Subject: How to address mail to the UK In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40708311042n511bd7f7w3ec9465477116eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette wrote: > montims: > I write to lots of people in England, and I just write United Kingdom, > without "England" first. I wouldn't write Scotland, Northern Ireland or > Wales either - the town, county and postcode if correctly and clearly > written should get the mail there ok - the United Kingdom bit is just to > make sure post physically gets onto the island, I think... Geoff: It's not necessary to give the county. Postcodes are standardised throughout the entire UK. From overseas, add UK. From olly at olly86.co.uk Fri Aug 31 23:04:50 2007 From: olly at olly86.co.uk (Olly) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:04:50 +0100 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] High-Definition DVD question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D89E92.1040303@olly86.co.uk> Carol wrote: > I asked this question on the movie list but no one answered it, so I'm > repeating it here: > > Does anyone know whether the OoP film will come out in standard DVD > format before it comes out as a high-definition DVD? Also, can you > play a high-definition DVD on a standard DVD player, or will viewers be > forced to follow along with the new technology as they had to do when > DVDs replaced VHS tapes? > > Carol, who hates being forced to buy new equipment every time > technology is "improved" Olly now: Because of the change of technology playing a new HD (read HD as HD-DVD or Blue Ray) disk on a current DVD player will not be possible, as the disk structure has changed to accommodate an improvement to video and audio quality. However, you will probably be able to play current DVD disks in new HD players, just check to see if they support DVD disks. Hopefully OoP will be released on DVD; as I am not yet prepared to buy a new player while there is no clear high-definition disk standard. Olly Who hopes this is simplified enough for non-technical people to understand.