Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation

[Geoff Bannister]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > > Carol:
> > 
> > > FWIW, although I immediately recognized the pun on "thickness," I
> > > pronounced it "thick NESS" because of the -"esse" suffix. I can
> think of only two English words ("largesse" and "politesse")
> containing that suffix, but the "e" in both is a short e, not a schwa,
> as in "thickness." At any rate, it's certainly two syllables, not three.
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > Two points.
> > 
> > "Largesse" and "politesse" are pronounced differently, the former
> having a soft `s' sound  and the latter hard.
> > 
> > I pronounce all these words with the same `e' sound.
> 
> Carol:
> Not according to Merriam-Webster Online, which has an audio link so
> that you can hear the pronunciation. (I checked. The ESS sound is the
> same in both words.) 
> 
> http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/largesse
> http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politesse
> 
> Admittedly, however, it's an American dictionary. "Finesse" is another
> one:
> 
> http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/finesse
> 
> (Still can't think of any others, but all three have the same sound
> according to my source.)

Geoff:
Yes, but what benchmark are they using for their standard?

I'm speaking as a UK native speaker who has been considered as 
accentless by some acquaintances. That comes of growing up for 
nine years in the north of England with a Lancashire accent with 
much more open vowels than the South, then adding to that the 
effect of living in London for 45 years in, I suppose, a middle-class 
environment and also being a teacher.

Merriam-Webster, with respect, cannot legislate or dictate for 
regional or national pronunciations. In addition to the two areas
I mentioned above, I now live in the West Country which has a much 
broader, rural dialect.

For example, we have had discussions on this group over examples 
like Sirius/serious where US speakers, apparently, use the same 
pronunciation whereas native UK speakers can distinguish between 
the two.