[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas

[random832 at fastmail.us]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:17:51 -0000, "Steve" <bboyminn at yahoo.com> said:
> --- I "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
> ...
> > 
> > Carol, who would agrees with a previous poster that
> > an American pronouncing "serious" as "SEE ree us" 
> > would sound affected and doesn't know anyone who 
> > would do so..
> >
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> I'm surprised this conversation is still going on since
> the answer seems obvious.
> 
> The original question, How do you pronounce 'Thicknesse',
> as been answered from a variety of sources including
> JKR and from Jim Dale and Stephen Fry.
> 
> As to Sirius vs Serious, I think we are running into
> a conflict between Common pronunciation, or pronunciation
> in the vernacular, and technically correct pronunciation.
> 
> In common speech, they are virtually the same. I think
> most people would pronounce then exactly the same, and
> make no distinction at all.
> 
> However, I do think there is a very minor and subtle
> technical difference, that is difficult to explain. 
> 
> The best I can show is -
> 
> sear-ee-us (Sirius)
> 
> and
> 
> sear-ee-os (serious)
> 
> There is a microscopic hint of the 'O' in Serious,
> that would technically not be present in 'Sirius'.
> 
> Diverging off onto a tangent- 
> 
> If you are ever in Texas, ask a native speaker to
> say these two words - ALL and OIL. They both sound
> the same to an outsider,

I suspect, based on no evidence (other than the fact that if there _is_
a real difference not detectable to everyone, this is overwhelmingly
likely to be it), that they only sound the same to an outsider who has
the caught-cot merger (though clearly that's not the only thing going
on) for more details on the caught-cot merger, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_the_low_back_vowels

As for sirius/serious - the "technical" difference that the rest of us
have been talking about is the vowel in the first syllable: This is
actually shown as different in dictionary pronunciation keys, whereas
the final syllable is shown as identical. I don't think it's actually a
phonological matter like these other things people have been bringing
up, but rather of "sirius" being an uncommon word, and people thinking
"this looks like it could be pronounced the same as 'serious'"
-- 
Random832