What's wrong with "Merry Christmas"?

[dumbledore11214]

> Alla:
> <snip>
> > I keep asking this question and I did not see the answer yet, so 
> > maybe you could answer. Where, oh where is this war on Christmas 
> > happening in the USA? Any links of schools being frightened and 
not 
> > putting Christmas trees? People afraid to say Merry Christmas 
and 
> > staff like that?
> >
> Carol responds:
> 
> Here's one example. In 2005, Wal-Mart ordered its employees to wish
> customers, the majority of whom celebrated Christmas, "Happy
> Holidays." After customers objected to the tactic as a war on
> Christmas, Wal-mart brought back the "Merry Christmas" greeting.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15639425
> 
> However, I was wished "Happy Holidays," not "Merry Christmas," at
> every store I shopped at this December, including Safeway, JC 
Penneys,
> Borders Books, Toys R Us, and Radio Shack. I don't know how many of
> these stores have actual policies on the subject, but the trend is
> unmistakeable.
><SNIP>


Alla:

This is war on Christmas? Those clerks are ordered or do it of their 
own volition? That they wish happy holidays instead of merry 
Christmas?

I guess when I think of war on Christmas I think of people's 
ornaments being vandalized regularly, I think of people being put to 
jail for celebrating Christmas, etc.

Not of store employees doing what I perceive respecting minorities.

IMO of course.


Magpie:
By "War on Christmas" I was referring to the imo completely bogus
campaign to claim that anybody's trying to get rid of Christmas or
any Christians are being kept from openly celebrating it.
Christianity isn't being eradicated bit by bit imo--there is no war
on it. What you describe as "Christians seeing where it's leading" is
imo mistaken. It just seems ironic to on the one hand reminisce about
the days when non-Christians allegedly didn't exist and then in the
next breath claim that Christianity is being eradicated bit by bit.
Those other people weren't eradicated back then and they were getting
less acknowledgement than Christianity is getting.

Alla:

Me too. I guess when my friend who has a solid background in science 
complains of some schools teaching intelligent design instead of 
theory of evolution, he should name it war on science.

And frankly I see more signs of that war in some places in the US, 
but not in NY either I have to say.

Tonks:
The ones on the other side of the fence, such as Alla are younger
and live in big cities like New York. New York city and a town with
the population of 3,000 (or even 36,000 where I live now.) in Mid-
American are too very different worlds. So to some extent, we are
not even fighting the same battle here. IMO.

Magpie:
Right--and what's the battle, exactly? Because it seems like your
point is that you're used to total Christmas world where no one else
exists and don't like having less privilege that way. I just don't
think this indicates your religion is actually in any danger any more
than a Jewish person's personal religion or ability to celebrate
Passover was in danger back when your small town always said Merry
Christmas. As you say, you don't want to lose the culture you know
and love, but you yourself admit that that culture is based on the
privileging of your religion over others. I can understand not liking
the change, but think it's unfair to claim its the same as being
persecuted or forbidden to practice your religion or celebrate
Christmas openly.


Alla:

Magpie I should just stop posting and make you speak for me, LOL. I 
only want to add that I am actually not fighting any battles 
whatsoever, I just argue that I do not see any signs of war on 
Christmas here. I do see the separation of church and state ( and I 
would not want it any other way) and I also see other religions 
getting more and more acknowledged.

BUT as you know as well NY celebrates Christmas very merrily IMO and 
I do not see how it is being changed.

I would not want religion interfering with the state business ever. 
The judge who put ten commandments in the court room made me very 
angry. But I would not want Christmas disappearing as a holiday at 
all, and what's the most important – I do not SEE it disappearing.

Carol:
I'm not going to wish you a happy holiday today, Alla. That, to me,
would insult the holiday you hold dear. I wish you a Happy New Year's
Eve tonight and a Happy New Year tomorrow and all year through. It's 
a
specific holiday you care about, and I'm sure you don't want it to 
get
lost in the mishmash that makes every day from Thanksgiving to New
Year's Day "the holidays" in the U.S. I haven't decided whether the
desire of merchants to make a profit or political correctness is 
more.

to blame, but the loss of specific holidays, each with their own
identity and significance, is, to me, a sad loss.

Alla:

And I am not asking you to wish me Happy holidays, that is my choice 
of what to wish people I do not know what they celebrate, but if you 
know what I celebrate and wish me that, I am very happy.

And yes, if I would have agreed with you that Christmas is being 
lost, I would say it would have been a sad loss for me too. I just 
do not see it at all.

Carol:
Carol, who does not have time to search for links because she's
supposed to be working but for now will provide this link to an
article on a similar topic on Ben Stein's website:

http://www.benstein.com/121805xmas.html

Alla:

LOL. He does not see it in the constitution? But I do agree with him 
about celebrities. The tremendous interest in the life of the 
celebrities among the general population is something that I will 
never be able to grasp.

Carol:
<SNIP>
In Flagstaff, Arizona, where I grew up, the city used to put up a
beautiful Nativity scene beside the train depot every year. It was
vandalized in the 1970s by people who objected to a religious display
and has not been put up since. And how long has it been since you've
seen a Nativity scene in a mall or store (other than the small ones
being sold to put up inside people's houses--I've very few in 
people's
yards in the last twenty years).


Alla:

City is an official institution and I am very happy that they do not 
do it any more. As to when I last saw nativity scene in the store, 
um, come to Manhattan and take a look in the windows of Lord and 
Taylor. There were some beautiful ones. I am sure next year it will 
appear again. I saw it four days ago.