coercion

[susanmcgee48176]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "susanmcgee48176" <Schlobin@> wrote:
> >
> > What I object to about boycotts of stores that require their
> > employees to say happy holidays rather than Merry Christmas
> > (in an effort to be more inclusive....is that it's trying to
> > force people to participate in a religious holiday, (or any
> > kind of holiday).
> > 
> > Those employees who do not celebrate Christmas - they should
> > be forced to say "merry christmas?" People who do not 
> > celebrate should be forced to listen to "merry christmas" 
> > in the stores?
> > 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> You almost had me, but I think you took it one step too far.
> True, if you do not celebrate Christmas you should not be 
> force to extend a Christmas-specific greeting to people. But,
> the end of the calendar year is a general time of celebration
> for everyone. So, it is, the entire month of December a
> holiday season. Do you really think the non-Christians are
> going to refuse a week off work 'for the holidays' because
> the claim they don't celebrate the holidays? I don't think so.
>
Sorry, but this is a non-sequitur.....


 
> 
> As to the last part, which I object too, 'people who do not
> celebrate should be forced to listen to 'Merry Christmas' in
> the store?'. Well, yes, somebody, if fact a majority of people
> are celebrating Christmas and a Christmas greeting between
> then IS appropriate. Why should the entire country be forced
> to conform to the beliefs of a few? 

Because the idea is to honor diversity, to honor minority opinions 
and beliefs...not to force the majority celebration of a Christmas 
holiday down everyone's throats..


> 
> I mean if I go into a Chinese restaurant on Chinese New Year
> and they are celebrating, should I make them stop because I
> don't celebrate Chinese New Year? Should I refuse to pay the
> 'special' Chinese New Year prices that are part of the
> celebrations? Should I refuse the free eggroll and special
> Chinese New Year foods, not because I don't like them, but
> because I refuse to celebrate the holiday? I don't think so. 
> 

Steve, sorry, but I just don't get this. I have no objection to 
anyone celebrating Christmas, giving discounts on Christmas, selling 
Christmas foods, whatever...



> It is one thing for you to choose to not celebrate certain
> holidays, but you really don't have a right to force other
> people to stop, and you don't have a right to be immune
> or sheltered from knowing a celebrations in going on. That
> celebration is a vast vast majority of people exercising 
> their rights as member of a free and opened country.
>

But I'm not forcing people to stop. Celebrate away...please cite 
where I have suggested that people should not celebrate Christmas.
What I have been saying is that *I* would not wish someone a 
religious specific greeting unless I knew that they were of that 
religion. I think it's common courtesy, and I also think it's part of 
acknowledging that minorities have rights..that here in the U.S., the 
ideal is supposed to be that minorities have rights...AND that there 
is separation of church and state. NOT eradication of celebrations..

 
> As a minority, you are free not to celebrate, but you are
> not free to stop others from doing so. So, yes, you do have
> to endure the Christmas Carols, and wishes of Merry Christmas,
> because even if you aren't celebrating I am, and whether you
> like it or not, I do wish you the happiness and blessings of
> the season, even if you are unwilling to take them. 
> 
Steve, how can you POSSIBLY be wishing me well, when you are forcing 
me to acknowledge your religion and culture as dominant?
And WHERE have I said that I am unwilling to accept the happiness and 
blessings OF THE SEASON?
Please listen to yourself -- what if I said "Sorry, Steve, but you 
are going to have to listen to MY religious views and MY religious 
greetings whether you like it or not!"



> 
> > Susan continues:
> >
> > What we did in our shelter was similar to what they did in
> > a school mentioned...we had decorations and information 
> > about all holidays, and education about them posted as well.
> > We tried to provide support for those who were not 
> > celebrating any holidays...one of our commons areas  was 
> >"decoration free"...it was all about compromise and trying to
> > have respect for all peoples and all beliefs...
> > 
> > Susan
> >
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> This in my opinion is far far more sensible approach. I think
> as the USA becomes more diverse, we as the majority citizens
> need to make an effort to be more inclusive of the minority
> citizens. So, as a community we should make some effort to
> acknowledge, and to a certain extent celebrate, all religious
> and non-religious holidays of all represented cultures.
> 
> Plus, there is the educational aspect of it. Too many Americans
> see themselves as the center of the universe, which usually 
> gets them into trouble when they travel to foreign countries.
> We need to realize that we are part of a grand diversity,
> we piece just as valid and important as the other. 
> 
> The more we know, the more we grow.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
>