Is LV modeled on Crowley?

[Goddlefrood]

> Alferian

> I don't consider Crowley to be a "flake."  I don't personally 
consider him to be a prophet either, but he is quite along the 
lines of prophets generally.  Some strong similarities, for 
example, in Joseph Smith, the prophet and founder of Mormonism, 
if you know that story.

Goddlefrood:

I'm glad this has come up again, it will allow for a little 
expansion on the sentiments in my previous. I always make sure
that my enemy, in this case Crowley, is known to me before I
comment.

Aleister Crowley had an extremely warped viewpoint. If he was or
ever has been considered a prophet then the chances are he 
considered himself such and potentially some weak-willed and
ill-advised followers of his did too. 

The similarity suggested to Joseph Smith and the Mormons is 
hardly prescient. Without wishing to offend that church, it has 
been considered at times a little unconventional, but it did 
not start out from an atheist perspective as Crowley did. His 
whole dogma can be summed up in a single quote from him, that 
being:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

The system espoused by him hardly involved a recognisable form
of any religion, what it did resemble more than most, and if 
you know it, is the film "The Devil Rides Out". IMDB could
advise you if you're unfamiliar with it ;)

> Alferian:

> You raise an interesting point, though, because Crowley was 
really the founder of a religion that employed traditional 
magical arts and theories.

Goddlefrood:

It was not a religion in the normal understanding of that term. 
It was more of a philosophy and the distinction between the two 
is important if one is to try to understand more about this man, 
which I couldn't advise, but which I had to do due to it having 
come up in a legal argument in which I was once involved. I won 
that btw ;), and was arguing against the basic philosophy, so 
come at this now from a position of some authority.

I also, unfortunately, had to read certain of Crowley's writings, 
which are tawdry and dreadfully written IMO, as part of that 
process. This is why when I see any mention of this twisted 
individual I feel compelled to intervene. He does not deserve
to be remembered as far as I'm concerned.

> Alferian:

> L. Ron Hubbard was a Thelemite?  That's news to me.  However, 
the statement that Voldemort makes about power and will is much 
closer to the philosopher Nietzsche than to Crowley. For Crowley 
the Will is all about self-mastery, not domination of other 
people.

Goddlefrood:

It was to me also, one reason I did not address it before. L. 
Ron Hubbard is credited with being the founder of the Church of 
Scientology, which, while it has been criticised in some circles,
is still recognisably monotheistic and does not try to subvert
amnything, as Crowley did, particularly morals.

If Crowley's writing was tongue-in-cheek I'd appreciate an 
expansion on that, preferrably off list as I strongly disagree.

IMO he was incapable of anything subtle whatsoever and as I 
pointed out in my previous fled to Sicily to escape arrest 
and imprisonment for some terrible crimes.

What is apparent is that Alferian's piece appears to itself be 
rather tongue-in-cheek ;).

> Alferian:

> How about Rasputin for a model?

Goddlefrood:

He may have more possibilities but it would be hard to fit LV to
the pattern of Rasputin having been the power behind the throne 
of Russia, or so it is widely believed, wrongly in my opinion, 
but there it is. Rasputin was, of course, rather a tricky customer
to kill, as will LV be :)

All the best

The site you were thinking of is probably this one:

http://www.lashtal.com

I wouldn't advise too thorough a study of it, mind you ;)

Goddlefrood