Christianity in HP - coming across from Main

[Geoff Bannister]

I apologise that I have taken so long to reply to this. As I indicated 
in my original post, I was away in Cardiff over the weekend; I 
normally use my host's computer to keep up with the group but 
his machine decided to crash on  Saturday morning so I am only 
just catching up on the backlog.

Katie wrote:
I resent wholeheartedly your insinuation that sacrificial love, 
redemption, CHOICE, and other so-called "Christian" themes in 
Harry Potter are Christian at all. My objection is two-fold:
1 - There is an assumption by Christians that values that are in 
the Bible are somehow singularly Christian. Simply because you 
put it in the Bible does not mean it is owned by Christianity. The 
Bible may mean something to you, but it means nothing to me, 
and I believe in sacrificial love, redemption, spirituality, loving the 
Creator, and treating my fellow man with humanity. This doesn't 
mean that I am a Christian, nor does it mean that I am practicing
"Christian" values. These beliefs belong to all of humanity - why 
do Christians get to hijack all virtues and claim them as their own?

Geoff:
Your use of the word "resent" and "insinuation' seem to imply that 
I have hit a nerve. If I had been  replying to the post, I would have 
used "disagree" and "suggestion:
 It would have been less 
inflammatory. However
.

I feel that in your wish to express your views, you failed to read the 
last paragraph of my post where I wrote:

"I agree with you that there should be tolerance, respect and
understanding of other people's views but I do not accept that I
should be short changing my own belief when it is belittled or 
attacked. That said, I am suspicious of attempts made to block 
our enjoymentand free access to these books - even if those 
involved might claim to be fellow believers."

I think I am voicing a not dissimilar feeling to yours. arising from 
your first paragraph, I might also say that, arising from the same 
paragraph, I do not consider the Bible to be my primary source 
as to what Christian values are; God tells me that. 

Nerdie55, in post 168969, also echoed my point about the fact 
that the fundamental structure of modern society is based on 
Christian foundations:

"If I may add my 2c: I have never connected HP with religious
values and I don't think that JKR wrote HP with Christianity
in mind. However, our western civilization and our societies
are permeated by Christian values without people realising it.
Redemption is present in our judicial systems and in our schools,
"love thy neighbour" is part of the campaigns against bullying
in schools and the campaigns for equal rights etcetera. And as
JKR's private Potter society is a reflection of the one we all
live in, it is inevitable that one finds these values in the
Potter books as well."

Katie:
2 - I was part of that "groundswell" of other religions a few years 
back. I do not in any way believe that JK intentionally put Christian 
themes into thesebooks. Perhaps her religion inspired her in an 
unconscious way (although I disagree with this as well), but it is 
obvious to me that these books are not religious. If there is any 
overriding faith theme in HP - it is faith in ONESELF - not in God! 
The fact that there may be an afterlife in HP doesn't mean it's a
Christian heaven. Um...other religions believe in an afterlife. The 
fact that characters that we believed to be evil may redeem 
themselves in a sacrifical way

Geoff:
I wrote a year or so back that I believed that if a writer is a Christian, 
producing a book such as Harry Potter would indirectly reveal 
something of their faith. It would be unlikely that such a writer 
would deliberately write a book which ran counter to their own 
faith. JKR has spoken about her faith and involvement with the 
Church of Scotland so I doubt whether she would fly in the face 
of that position. She can use Christian themes without necessarily 
flourishing them in your face; Tolkien did likewise by placing his
action in a pre-Christian era.

Katie:
in the end, doesn't mean it's some metaphor about Jesus - it's 
just reallyfantastic plotting and storytelling. Not everything has 
to do with Christianity! Jesus' story is a story that had already 
been told repeatedly in mythology by the writing of the Bible. 
Why? Because sacrifice and suffering makes a good damn story.

Leslie41 wrote:
Not to completely hijack Geoff's response, but I'd like to answer
this, at least in part. Firstly, of course you're correct. Loving
thy neighbor isn't exclusively Christian. Nor is redemption,
sacrificial love, etc. But Christ's teachings, which now seem to us
seem generically "humanist" were absolutely *revolutionary* in his
own time. He saw an equality of all people. Not just "his" people,
but *all* people, regardless of gender and tribe and color.

Christians "hijack" these virtues and claim them as their own
because, in essence, Christ "invented" these virtues and made them
manifest in the world for the first time, in their completest sense.
And I don't speak here of Jesus Christ as savior--you don't need to
believe that at all. I speak of Jesus as a philosopher. 

Well, yes, other religions have an afterlife. But Harry Potter's
world clearly includes Christmas and Easter, and Harry himself was
christened (apparently that was very important to his parents) and
has a godfather. I don't necessarily think the books areovertly 
"religious" of course, not in a "Left Behind" sort of way, but a generic 
sort of Christianity permeates them, which I think goes beyond the 
merely decorative

Geoff:
I don't hijack these values either. The trouble is that there is confusion 
between so-called Christian values which can be the same as other 
groups hold as well but, as Leslie 41 remarks, there are certain values 
and beliefs which are unique to our faith.

What is important are not Christian values but Christian commitment. 
In the UK at least, there are thousands of people who claim to be 
Christian and when questioned, would point to these values. However, 
some years ago, George Carey, the then Archbishop of Canterbury was 
being interviewed on BBC Breakfast and in response to one comment 
made by the presenter said: "Ah but you are confusing Christianity 
with Church-ianity". 

I became a Christian when I was 21 and at college. Up to that point, I 
had only vague ideas about God and Christ and believed that I could 
label myself Christian. I didn't see any thing else to be done; I didn't 
particularly want any wider involvement; I felt I was doing all the right 
things. But, to use a cricketing term, God suddenly bowled a yorker at 
me and in one day, my beliefs were stood on their head and changed 
my view on life permanently. 

Hence I disagree with you over your suggestion that Jesus is a story 
figure and could take umbrage over what you wrote about Christ in 
those terms. As an evangelical, I believe that when I made a commitment 
to faith (not religion – that's a different thing altogether) Christ came 
into my life and his Spirit lives in me and guides me and that will guide 
anyone with true faith – including JKR.

Faith is not a matter of finding a set of rules you like and signing up 
like joining a painting class. It is coming into a personal relationship 
with God himself through Christ who was God in human form.

Katie:
Harry Potter is not about religion. It is about a boy who is on a journey 
of self-discovery, and he happens to have a wonderful cast of characters 
to help him through. Plus, he's a wizard, and that's dang fun.

Geoff:
It /is/ good fun but the journey of self-discovery has to include faith – 
even if it's humanism or atheism or a different world view. But I believe 
it still comes back to what the writer's personal belief is and the plan they 
have for their character.