Sex! Love! Writing! and Dumbledore and Snape

[susanmcgee48176]

.
> 
> Del:  If she thought of DD as gay from 
> back before she even started writing the books, how 
> come she didn't actually write him AS gay?
> 
> Amanda now:
> 
> I have to ask--what would "writing him as gay" have looked like? I 
mean, if
> she always thought of him as gay, and she wrote him, then she 
*did* "write
> him as gay" because that was part of his character for her.  She 
could not
> have written him as anything else.  Quite possibly she doesn't 
think being
> gay has standard characteristics; quite possibly she thinks it's 
one of many
> facets of character and personality. 


Yes, this has puzzled me throughout this discussion and many others.
Does "writing him as gay" mean that he would swish or be effeminate, 
or have multiple sex partners, or have any kind of sex? This seems to 
me to be playing into (usually derogatory) stereotypes of gay men in 
particular.

It seems that many people have real difficulty in distinguishing 
orientation from sexual contact or activity (hence the many people 
decrying JKR for suddenly putting "sexuality" into the books, which I 
don't understand because she didn't change the books at all)...It's 
like saying she put sexuality in the books because she revealed that 
Snape was in love with Lily. By revealing Snape to be heterosexual, 
is she putting sex into the books? It's like saying -- well, why 
didn't she write Snape as hetersexual if she thought of him that 
way...

IF she had in fact included that DD was in love with GG in the books 
that still wouldn't have introduced sexuality into the books anymore 
than Snape being in love with Lily introduced it.

Orientation means IF you were to become romantically/intimately 
involved with someone it would be someone of the opposite gender or 
someone of the same gender. It does not mean you have ANY sexual 
contact, nor does it mean you have multiple parters, or one committed 
relationship (or serial monogamy which seems, at least in the U.S. to 
be more of the pattern than "mating for life," going back to your 
discusion earlier, Amanda...)

In fact, I see some parallels between the two men. When I think about 
DD, here's a 17 year old in the midst of hormonal uproar who falls in 
love...with someone brilliant, and (sounds like) beatiful. DD becomes 
inflamed with his ideas, and flirts with evil.

As a result of his falling in love, he neglects his family. Aberforth 
reproaches him, there's a fight, GG puts the cruciatus curse on 
Aberforth...and DD's sister lies dead. Does GG stick around? No, he 
flees. This is a tragedy that shapes and mars DD's whole life.
He fell in love with the wrong person, who turned out to be evil, and 
who abandoned him. He became complicit in the death of his sister.
We know from what he said when he drank the poison in the cave that 
that experience haunted him throughout his entire life.

>From someone who plotted muggle overthrow, he becomes a lifelong 
defender of muggles, elves, giants, werewolves, and anyone who is 
being discriminated against. From someone who wanted to be the 
glorious leader of the revolution, he becomes a teacher and refuses 
(how many times?) to become the Minister of Magic...

This is not a great way to start out one's romantic/intimate life.
I wonder if DD didn't also renounce personal intimacy and romance? 
It's possible he found some solace later in life with some adult 
relationships, but I dunno......

Then we move to Snape...he falls in love as a boy with a wonderful 
girl, and desperately wants to be involved with her. Snape decides to 
follow Voldemort and become a Death Eater, she is a Gryffindor who 
becomes a member of the Order of the Phoenix. Their paths 
irretrievably part. Snape then overhears the prophecy, tells Lord 
Voldemort and BECAUSE OF HIS ACTION Lily is murdered by Lord 
Voldemort. Not a great way to start out one's romantic/intimate life.

I seriously doubt that Snape was ever involved with anyone else -- he 
was so angry and embittered..but like DD, he dedicated his life to a 
different goal because of this tragic love.

The two men had something in common after all.

Susan