Sex! Love! Writing!

[dumbledore11214]

Susan:
> yes, Carol, I agree...
> 
> I have a master's in ancient history, with a specialization in 
Greek 
> history..
> 
> I think that for many years gay men (and lesbians) had so very few 
> positive depictions of same-gender love and attraction, so they 
> fastened on the Greek model as depicted in Plato. The problems 
with 
> it, of course, is that it portrayed the ideal love as between a 
man 
> (although probably a man of 25) and a boy of 16 to 18...and I 
would 
> have real trouble with that, as I think many would today....)
> 
> The other problem was that love between men was considered 
superior 
> by Plato and some others to love between men and women who were 
> considered inferior (in Athens, anyway...)
> 
> In Sparta, there was much more equality among men and women, and 
in 
> the islands, (Melos, Lesbos..now part of Turkey) women were MUCH 
> freeer and enjoyed greater status..
> 
> Aspasia was a courtesan (woman hired for sex)..hetaira. There is 
no 
> English word to accurately translate hetairai, but they were more 
> than courtesans. They were indeed sexual partners, but they were 
also 
> companions, better educated than other Greek women. They were 
> educated in philosophy, history, politics, science, art and 
> literature, so that they could converse intelligently with 
> sophisticated men. Aspasia was considered by many to be the most 
> beautiful and intelligent of the city's hetairai.
> 
> AND she became Pericles' (the most famous and tremendously 
successful 
> leaders of Greece during their golden age in the 5th century)
PARTNER 
> (although they could not marry) and wielded immense political 
power 
> as such.


Alla:

Yes Greek history was my love in university as well. Still love, 
love, love.

I first read about hetairas though in the novel by russian writer 
Ivan Efremov called "Tais Afinskaya" - have no clue if it is even 
translated, but if it is _ I highly recommend it to any lover of 
greek history.

Susan, have you read Mary Renault's novels? I wonder what you make 
of them? I found the depiction of the love between two men in them 
to be very touching, be it trilogy about Alexander or some other 
stories about Greece, but I wonder what you make of it from the 
position of the historical accuracy?

As I said, I studied Greek history for almost two years, but it was 
all an undegraduate course and I would imagine your expertise is 
more in depth.

Alla