From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 01:05:15 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:05:15 -0000
Subject: How to address mail to the UK
In-Reply-To: <fba7sq+sc1a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbadsb+rvf4@eGroups.com>

> > montims:
> > I write to lots of people in England, and I just write United 
> > Kingdom, without "England" first.  I wouldn't write Scotland, 
> > Northern Ireland or Wales either - the town, county and postcode 
> > if correctly and clearly written should get the mail there ok - 
> > the United Kingdom bit is just to make sure post physically gets 
> > onto the island, I think...

Goddlefrood:

Well, that wouldn't help anyone on the island of Ireland, 
particularly in Northern Ireland. There's hundreds of islands 
in the UK ;-)

Unless you meant Great Britain :-?

There really isn't any standard way of addressing post to the 
UK. As long as the person's name, rough address and general area 
are there then the postal service reckons they'd find the place.

The key word being "reckons".

Not that this will help the original questioner, however, there 
you are.
 
> Geoff:
> It's not necessary to give the county. Postcodes are 
> standardised throughout the entire UK. From overseas, 
> add UK.

Goddlfrood:

If you don't know the postcode there's no need to worry, it should 
still get there eventually.

Auf wiedersehen





From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 04:37:30 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Stardust, the movieRE, books before movies
In-Reply-To: <fb982q+51sh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <963412.97256.qm@web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I read "Perfume, the Story of a Murderer" before seeing the movie, and am very glad that I did! Some books just cannot be translated into a movie without the reading of said book first. Most Potter books are that way. I will see "Stardust" soon, then read the book, just because I live very far out of town, and will be watching it on Pay-For-View.
   
  Alex Hogan
  "Cats, despite being jerks, are the new Owls."

dumbledore11214 <dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com> wrote:
          > Alla:
> 
> So I only went to see Stardust yesterday and again for myself saw 
> again that it is much better for me to NOT read or reread the book 
> before seeing the movie.
> 
> 
> Let me explain. I AM a big fun of Neil Gaiman. <SNIP>

Alla:

I am such a big FAN of Neil Gaiman that I cannot even spell it 
properly. Sheesh. :)



                         

       
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From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 06:27:20 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:27:20 -0000
Subject: How to address mail to the UK
In-Reply-To: <fbadsb+rvf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbb0o8+varv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:
> > Geoff:
> > It's not necessary to give the county. Postcodes are 
> > standardised throughout the entire UK. From overseas, 
> > add UK.
 
> Goddlfrood:
> 
> If you don't know the postcode there's no need to worry, it should 
> still get there eventually.
> 
> Auf wiedersehen

Geoff:
True, But it's also the case that if you just write on en envelope the 
house number or house name plus the postcode, it will get there.

I've had mail like this and one of my sons did it to prove his point 
some years ago...




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 06:32:19 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:32:19 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fba4c0+65qh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbb11j+hhnk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "marion11111" <marion11111 at ...> wrote:


> I could say "That boy is Harry" and you would not know if I meant his name or his 
hairstyle.  

Geoff:
For pretty well all UK English speakers...

Harry rhymes with carry, marry, Barry, Larry

Hairy rhymes with dairy, fairy, Mary

In Brit terms, no contest.

marion11111:
> Back to poor old Sirius.  I can't find the post that shows the dictionary pronunciation 
with the 
> "r" in the second syllable (si ri us), but I've been trying for about ten minutes and 
CANNOT 
> make my mouth work that way.  It comes out all strange and choppy.

Geoff:
Well, if you can pronounce 'serious' you're only shifting 'see' to 'si'..... 




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 14:05:01 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:05:01 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fbb11j+hhnk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbbrie+47n4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
> marion11111:
> > Back to poor old Sirius.  I can't find the post that shows the dictionary pronunciation 
> with the 
> > "r" in the second syllable (si ri us), but I've been trying for about ten minutes and 
> CANNOT 
> > make my mouth work that way.  It comes out all strange and choppy.
> 
> Geoff:
> Well, if you can pronounce 'serious' you're only shifting 'see' to 'si'.....
>

marion11111:
But see, that's the tricky part.  I don't say see-re-us.  i say seer-ree-us.  There's not a clean 
break where the "r" is - it blurs the two syllables which I suppose is why the two words come 
out the same for me.  It must be a midwestern drawl thing.

Have we beaten this horse to death yet?  Or is it hoarse?




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 15:04:57 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] How to address mail to the UK
Message-ID: <230860.95971.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


 akh:


I'm trying to standardize a new database, and our mailing addresses to

 folks in the UK are - well - all over the map, as it were.  Since a

 fair number of you are either in the UK or likely mail to the UK,

 what's the standard Country listing?  Our system uses England,

 Ireland, and UK, seemingly in random order (some English addresses are

 UK; some are England.  Ireland seems pretty consistently Ireland; I'm

 presuming it would say Northern Ireland if it were supposed to be UK.)

 

 Does it matter?  Am I fretting over nothing?  Or, should I change

 England Scotland and Wales to UK?  (I don't think I have any N Ireland

 addresses right now.) Enquiring minds want to know!

 

Kemper now:
I think writing the country is more for postal workers of the mail-of-origin so they know which bin to throw the overseas mail in.

But I'm not a postal worker... just hazarding a guess.

Kemper




       
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From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 17:59:36 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:59:36 -0000
Subject: How to address mail to the UK
In-Reply-To: <230860.95971.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbc9a8+bthh@eGroups.com>

---  kemper mentor <kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> 
>  akh:
> 
> 
> I'm trying to standardize a new database, and our 
> mailing addresses to folks in the UK are - well - 
> all over the map, as it were.  Since a fair number 
> of you are either in the UK or likely mail to the UK,
>  what's the standard Country listing?  Our system 
> uses England, Ireland, and UK, seemingly in random 
> order ...
> 
>  
> 
> Kemper now:
> I think writing the country is more for postal workers
> of the mail-of-origin so they know which bin to throw
> the overseas mail in.
> 
> But I'm not a postal worker... just hazarding a guess.
> 
> Kemper

bboyminn;

It's probably not much of a problem within the bounds
of the UK+Ireland. But it is common to include country
for international mail.

So... 

London, England SW1A 0AA 

becomes ... 

London, England, UK, SW1A 0AA

>From a sample website address -
Hilton Hotel
22 Park Lane 
London, United Kingdom, W1K 1BE 

I think reasonably the actual country (England, Wales,
North Ireland) is probably optional. 'United Kingdom'
will get it into the country, and the postal code 
will take over from there. 

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 20:19:23 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:19:23 -0000
Subject: Stardust, the movie/ RE, books before movies
In-Reply-To: <963412.97256.qm@web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbchgb+511k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alex Hogan <predigirl1 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> I read "Perfume, the Story of a Murderer" before seeing the movie, 
and am very glad that I did! Some books just cannot be translated 
into a movie without the reading of said book first. Most Potter 
books are that way. I will see "Stardust" soon, then read the book, 
just because I live very far out of town, and will be watching it on 
Pay-For-View.
>    
>   Alex Hogan
>   "Cats, despite being jerks, are the new Owls."
>

Alla:

Right, whatever works obviously for everybody :) I know one thing - 
when I know books well, as I know all Potter books except OOP and DH 
(yet), it NEVER helps me to enjoy the movie. Why? Because what I am 
concentrating upon is what they left out of the movie and what was 
in the book.

Like take PoA for example, I did not hate the movie when I saw it 
first, but boy was I mad that they cut out Marauders story so much.

But when I forced myself to look at it as movie, not just 
illustration of the book, I decided that it was a rather strong 
piece of art ( for me obviously) even if filmmakers cut story so 
significantly.


It is not the first time for me, really. When I was a very young 
kiddo, like five or six, I saw russian version of "Three musketeers" 
for the first time. I loved it, I am in love with this movie ever 
since. I read the book for the first time probably when I was seven 
or eight ( do not remember for sure, I read it probably twenty times 
or more since then)


Filmakers definitely cut the story short, but it helped me that I 
have not read the book before I saw the movie, because I was anble 
to concentrate upon the spirit of the story, and I thought that they 
kept it.

Now, when I am watching american versions of three musketeers, I 
feel nothing but annoyance, because I cannot stonach the liberties 
they took with the story, you know?


The only book which I was absolutely , completely happy with being 
transferred to the movie was Lord of the Rings. I read it many times 
before I saw the movie and despite some changes, I thought story was 
there, period.

As to Perfume. I read the book. I will never, never see the movie, 
because I found the book while very very well done ( first time in 
my life I was reading a book with my nose), to be also incredibly 
gross :)

I do not want to see that story in cinema. I think I had enough of 
it.


Oh, oh I do not know if you saw the russian movie "Night watch". 
Some theaters in the US at least ( I do not know where you are) did 
show it. Was it last year?

I loved the story, I hated the movie. But I know list member who 
watched the movie before reading the book and did like it.

Alla.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 21:01:19 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:01:19 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fbb11j+hhnk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbcjuv+7icl@eGroups.com>


> Geoff:
> For pretty well all UK English speakers...
> 
> Harry rhymes with carry, marry, Barry, Larry
> 
> Hairy rhymes with dairy, fairy, Mary
> 
> In Brit terms, no contest.

Carol responds:

For this American, *all* of the words in both lists rhyme with each
other (or are homonyms). Every one of them rhymes with "merry," "very"
and "berry," as well.

Carol, trying and failing to remember how the actors pronounce "Harry"
in the films and supposing that it must sound like "HAH ree" rather
than "HEHR ee" (with "ah" representing the short "a" sound in "cat,"
not "ah" as in "bah, humbug!")




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 21:11:01 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:11:01 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fbbrie+47n4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbckh5+sb91@eGroups.com>

marion11111:
> But see, that's the tricky part.  I don't say see-re-us.  i say
seer-ree-us.  There's not a clean break where the "r" is - it blurs
the two syllables which I suppose is why the two words come out the
same for me.  It must be a midwestern drawl thing.
> 
> Have we beaten this horse to death yet?  Or is it hoarse?
>
Carol:
Would "SIHR ree us" /"SEER ree us" work to indicate the distinction?
I'm sure it's the r-modified accented vowel sound that's causing the
problem (which I share). (I use the first pronunciation for both.)

I don't think we've beaten the poor "hoarse" to death yet, in any
case. No one has explained to me yet how the pronunciation of "faint"
differs from that of "feint" in "Wronski feint"/"wonky faint."
(Obviously, I can tell "Wronski" from "wonky" without help. <smile>)

Carol, thinking that if Americans have this much trouble with the puns
in the HP books, readers of the translations must be *really* confused 




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  2 15:45:17 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 2 Sep 2007 15:45:17 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/2/2007, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1188747917.8.64516.m41@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 2, 2007
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



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From french_traceym at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  2 16:49:12 2007
From: french_traceym at hotmail.com (french_traceym)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:49:12 -0000
Subject: Recommended  reading linked to Harry Potter .
Message-ID: <fbepi8+gvas@eGroups.com>

  Can anyone recommend any books, poems or novels with character names
or similarities to the Harry Potter books?

  My question comes from a chance purchase at a garage sale of a novel
titled The Mayor Of Casterbridge by Thomas Hardy. As I was reading I
found a lot of similarities with the Harry Potter books.

  The town of Casterbridge and Hogesmeade are similar. Both have two
main bars. Hogesmeade has The Three Broomsticks and The Hogs Head.
Casterbridge has the Three Mariners and Peter's finger!

  In chapter twenty not five lines apart are two words (in the same
paragraph), dumbledores and hagrid. There are many more similarities
but it would take up too much space.

  By the way, this is not a knock against J.K.. I love her writing.
Even Chaucer and Shakespeare can have some of their works traced back
to other writers. It is how you tell the story that makes it so great.
Like Homer's Illiad.

french_traceym



From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  2 17:40:52 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 2 Sep 2007 17:40:52 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/2/2007, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1188754852.32.40701.m57@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 2, 2007
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
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 Yahoo! Inc.
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From kkersey at swbell.net  Sun Sep  2 17:51:41 2007
From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:51:41 -0000
Subject: Recommended  reading linked to Harry Potter .
In-Reply-To: <fbepi8+gvas@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbet7d+sja6@eGroups.com>

french_traceym wrote:
>
>   In chapter twenty not five lines apart are two words (in the same
> paragraph), dumbledores and hagrid. There are many more similarities
> but it would take up too much space.

Read down a bit, and you'll find Minerva too. :-)

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Mayor_of_Casterbridge/Chapter_20

Elisabet, who would not be at all surprised to find Thomas Hardy's
novels on JKR's bookshelf





From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep  2 18:35:47 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:35:47 -0000
Subject: Cats (was: Stardust, the movieRE, books before movies
In-Reply-To: <963412.97256.qm@web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbevq3+s6qs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alex Hogan <predigirl1 at ...> wrote:

>   "Cats, despite being jerks, are the new Owls."

Who said that? Does it mean that someone has met a cat who will rise
from his comfortably curled position on the cushiony chair, stretch,
take your letter in his mouth, and obligingly trot up to the addressee?

Taking this opportunity to chime in on pronunciations:

I pronounce very, vary, Mary, merry, hairy, berry the same. I
pronounce marry, Barry, Harry a different same. Bar is different from
both berry and Barry. Harry and Hairy are close enough for punning.
Hairy maybe has the same vowel as Care. Harry maybe has the same vowel
as Hat?

If all UK people pronounce Serious and Sirius differently, then when
the PM heard 'Sirius Black', how did he remember it as 'Serious Black'?




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sun Sep  2 19:36:55 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:36:55 -0000
Subject: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <fba6uf+glnp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbf3cn+7oda@eGroups.com>

Steve:
> Is it the difference between 'car' and 'air'?
> 
> Harr-ee and Hair-ee? 
> 
> Pehaps the problem is that we have reached the limits
> of the extent to which differences can be conveyed in
> printed words or phrases? 
> 
> Still, even though we haven't really resolved anything,
> it's been interesting to explore the cultural 
> differences in language.
> 
> I still say in the region I'm in, in common daily
> speech, virtually no one would make any distinction
> between any of the words discussed.

Magpie:
This is one of the most basic distinctions in regional accents in the 
US as well, isn't it? Where I'm from the distinction would be common.

The trouble is, it's hard to write out the difference because people 
who pronounce it "Hairy-y" pronounce most a's like that. There's not 
a word I could use as an example that you probably wouldn't pronounce 
differently to begin with. I remember trying to explain it to friends 
who pronounced me sister's name "Cair-a" instead of "Car-a" 
(the "car" in that case *not* pronounced like the word car). Harr-ee 
vs. Hair-ee is probably as close as you'll come writing it out.

-m (who also makes a distinction between merry, mary and marry--with 
only marry rhyming with Harry)




From stacygalore at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 02:18:55 2007
From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:18:55 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <fbfquf+krn8@eGroups.com>

I am trying to write a fic and was wondering about something.  Can the offspring and 
descendants of a squib be considered pure blood, if all said descendants are indeed wizards/
witches?  Is it possible for a squib to have wizard/witch offspring?

Is it a requirement for one to be a pure blood in order to be a student in the house of 
Slytherin?  

- Stacy




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 02:20:48 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:20:48 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fbckh5+sb91@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbfr20+rjb5@eGroups.com>


> Carol:
> Would "SIHR ree us" /"SEER ree us" work to indicate the distinction?
> I'm sure it's the r-modified accented vowel sound that's causing the
> problem (which I share). (I use the first pronunciation for both.)
> 

marion11111:
And I say the second for both.

> I don't think we've beaten the poor "hoarse" to death yet, in any
> case. No one has explained to me yet how the pronunciation of "faint"
> differs from that of "feint" in "Wronski feint"/"wonky faint."
> (Obviously, I can tell "Wronski" from "wonky" without help. <smile>)
> 

marion11111:
Feint and faint are identical for me too.  For me, the humor in the puns comes from seeing 
the different spelling and knowing that it means the character completely misunderstood 
the meaning.  I have no idea how this can seem funny to listeners of the tapes.  I suppose 
the reader "reads" them differently, but since I barely notice a pronounciation difference in 
the films I bet I wouldn't notice on the tapes.  To me, the British accent is the noticable 
part - the finer distinctions of words don't stand out.  I guess we really do hear what we 
expect to hear.  Since I don't expect two different vowel sounds, I don't hear them.

For what it's worth, I'm from Minnesota - always lived here, parents lived here - but there 
is a slight generational difference in people from the WWII generation who lived "up north."  
Kind of stereotypical Fargo-style accent that I hear in my older relatives.  I might have a 
touch of that.  




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Mon Sep  3 02:35:47 2007
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:35:47 -0000
Subject: Tom Swift and the Deathly Hallows
Message-ID: <fbfru3+rtig@eGroups.com>

"Who is it that I'm supposed to impersonate?" asked the House Ghoul 
ironically.

"I know how to make Dungy talk," Kreacher dead-panned.

"If we can't go back to Grimmauld Place, where will we sleep?" asked 
Harry intensely.

"I want to see where my parents are buried," said Harry hollowly.

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" quoted Harry 
appallingly.

"It doesn't mean defeating death in the way the Death Eaters mean 
it," said Hermione apologetically.

"Where was it that you found the Sword of Gryffindor?" asked Hermione 
ponderously.

"The sword must be taken under conditions of need and valor" said 
Dumbledore icily.

"You may know about the wand and the cloak, but what of the third 
Hallow?" asked Xenophilius stonily. 

"I think there's a chance that my son will inherit my affliction," 
inferred Lupin

"It must have been Fiendfyre!" said Hermione heatedly.

"Severus, what form does your Patronus take?" asked Dumbledore 
endearingly.

"You mean I have a Horcrux inside me!" cried Harry soulfully.

  -	CMC

For previous Swifties, check the HP4GU-OT archives:

http://tinyurl.com/33qdhg





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 03:06:54 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <576484.32944.qm@web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Stacy:
                              I am trying to write a fic and was wondering about something.  Can the offspring and 

 descendants of a squib be considered pure blood, if all said descendants are indeed wizards/

 witches?  Is it possible for a squib to have wizard/witch offspring?

 

 Is it a requirement for one to be a pure blood in order to be a student in the house of 

 Slytherin?  

 


Kemper now:
I'm not sure if you read the books, so I hope I'm not spoiling anything, but Voldemort who's real name is Tom Riddle was sorted into Slytherin as was Severus Snape, the Potions Master and ex-Headmaster of Hogwarts.  Both have dads who are Muggles which therefore makes their respective sons not pure-blood.  As both are sorted into Slytherin, it seems the House of Slytherin does not require pure-blood status.  

Now to your earlier question... Squibs are not considered pure-blood even though they may have pure-blood heritage because they cannot perform magic.  In fact, Squibs aren't really considered at all... but that's a different issue.  I believe it is possible for a Squib to have a child who is a witch/wizard, but that child will not be considered pure-blood if it is discovered that one of the parents is a Squib.

jmao,
Kemper




       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  



From drdara at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 03:05:26 2007
From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <591439.46618.qm@web60723.mail.yahoo.com>

Danielle here: 
I don't know about your first part, I would think so if they could prove like there wasn't any muggles that had been married into the family or if someone had married a muggleborn witch/wizard. As to the 2nd part, no, both Severus Snape Voldemort were half-blood, both had witch mothers and muggle fathers. Which is prolly why Voldie trusted Snape so much, cause Snape was like him. While half-bloods prolly get into Slytherin all the time, its probably something they don't brag it. The real question is, have a muggleborn witch/wizard ever gotten in Slytherin????



I am trying to write a fic and was wondering about something. Can the offspring and 
descendants of a squib be considered pure blood, if all said descendants are indeed wizards/
witches? Is it possible for a squib to have wizard/witch offspring?

Is it a requirement for one to be a pure blood in order to be a student in the house of 
Slytherin? 

- Stacy





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 05:48:58 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 22:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cats (was: Stardust, the movieRE, books before movies
In-Reply-To: <fbevq3+s6qs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <220738.61507.qm@web53012.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Actually, that was on "Adult Swim" on Cartoon Network. You know...30 is the new 20...Pink is the new Black...Owls are played out...Cats are the new Owls...
  Sorry, by that time of night, anything is hilarious!
  And, Rita, I don't know if you remember me...but my life has turned around, I'm happy, married with kids, and content. Thanks for your support when I was in Hell! You are a Goddess!
   
  Alex Hogan (was Alex Fox)
   
   
   
   
  
"Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at wicca.net> wrote:
          --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alex Hogan <predigirl1 at ...> wrote:

> "Cats, despite being jerks, are the new Owls."

Who said that? Does it mean that someone has met a cat who will rise
from his comfortably curled position on the cushiony chair, stretch,
take your letter in his mouth, and obligingly trot up to the addressee?

Taking this opportunity to chime in on pronunciations:

I pronounce very, vary, Mary, merry, hairy, berry the same. I
pronounce marry, Barry, Harry a different same. Bar is different from
both berry and Barry. Harry and Hairy are close enough for punning.
Hairy maybe has the same vowel as Care. Harry maybe has the same vowel
as Hat?

If all UK people pronounce Serious and Sirius differently, then when
the PM heard 'Sirius Black', how did he remember it as 'Serious Black'?



                         

       
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep  3 06:45:04 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 06:45:04 -0000
Subject: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <fba6uf+glnp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbgahg+f11o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Once again, since people, especially people in the UK,
> see a distinct difference between Harry and Hairy, I
> looked in my dictionary (Am. Heritage CD-ROM) for the
> difference. I found the difference is roughly the same
> as Sirius and Serious.
> 
> Hairy is h?r'ee. The second letter is a circumflex 'A'.
> As in 'pat'.
> 
> Harry is har'ee. The second letter is a standard Short
> 'A'. As in 'pay'. 

Geoff:
Pay is a long 'a' surely.... In general UK pronunciation, the 
'a' is shorter than that. As I wrote recently, 'Harry' rhymes 
with 'carry' and 'marry'. It's much more easily detectable 
audibly than the Sirius/serious difference.




From heidi8 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  3 14:56:49 2007
From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 10:56:49 -0400
Subject: SpellCast Looking for a Team of Writers for Podcast PLays
Message-ID: <5913e6f80709030756w23edfack2c808d4df59cd41@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all! I'm forwarding this on behalf of Tarie, the exec producer of
SpellCast's podcast plays. You can hear the podcast plays that
SpellCast has already released at spellcast.libsyn.com or
http://www.spell-cast.com .




Podcast plays typically run between 20-40 minutes. Up until now, the
plays have all been adaptations of existing fanfic.

I am looking to round up a team of writers who would be interested in
collaborating on an eight-part play. Ideally I am looking for people
who feel they 'specialize' in specific characters, types of
characters, or groups of characters (Death Eaters, Order of the
Phoenix, Aurors, Hogwarts Students, etc etc). However, if you are
rockin' at plot and characterization in general, I'm also looking for
you!

I will ALSO be needing writers to create two stories from The Tales of
Beedle the Bard for live plays at two upcoming conventions and
possibly a musical.

If you think you might be interested, please leave an initial comment
to this post with your name, anything you think I should know
regarding your writing strengths, where I can find your writing, and
your email address.

Conversely, if you think you know someone I might not have friended
who would be into something like this, please let me know.

To recap:

I am looking to form a team of writers for:
-an eight-part drama
-two plays from Tales from Beedle the Bard
-and possibly a musical about Hogwarts: The Next Generation (or something)


If you're interested in all OR just in one or two of these things,
PLEASE post a reply at
http://tarie.livejournal.com/763564.html?mode=reply or send an email
to spellcast at fictionalley.org.

If you're only interested in one or two, please include which things
you'd want to help out with when you comment.


Best,
Heidi for FictionAlley



From stacygalore at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 17:23:02 2007
From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:23:02 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <576484.32944.qm@web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbhftm+e4jj@eGroups.com>

 
> Stacy:
>                               I am trying to write a fic and was wondering about something.  Can 
the offspring and 
>  descendants of a squib be considered pure blood, if all said descendants are indeed 
wizards/ 
>  witches?  Is it possible for a squib to have wizard/witch offspring?
>  Is it a requirement for one to be a pure blood in order to be a student in the house of 
  Slytherin?  

> Kemper now:
> I'm not sure if you read the books, so I hope I'm not spoiling anything, but Voldemort 
who's real name is Tom Riddle was sorted into Slytherin as was Severus Snape, the Potions 
Master and ex-Headmaster of Hogwarts.  Both have dads who are Muggles which therefore 
makes their respective sons not pure-blood.  As both are sorted into Slytherin, it seems 
the House of Slytherin does not require pure-blood status.  
> 
> Now to your earlier question... Squibs are not considered pure-blood even though they 
may have pure-blood heritage because they cannot perform magic.  In fact, Squibs aren't 
really considered at all... but that's a different issue.  I believe it is possible for a Squib to 
have a child who is a witch/wizard, but that child will not be considered pure-blood if it is 
discovered that one of the parents is a Squib.
> 
> jmao,
> Kemper

Stacy again:
OMG! I feel sooooo stupid asking that question about Slytherin requiring pure blood 
status.  Half Blood Prince (Snape), Tom Riddle.  DUH!!!  Yes, I have read all the books.  
Though reading HP while trying to earn a second college degree and raise a daughter, 
sometimes I just breeze through them without processing everything.  

As to the blood status thing.  Would the grandchildren of a squib and a wizard be 
considered pure blood if their parents are witches/wizards?





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 17:54:35 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 10:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <876158.33613.qm@web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> Kemper now:

 > I'm not sure if you read the books, so I hope I'm not spoiling anything, but Voldemort 

 who's real name is Tom Riddle was sorted into Slytherin as was Severus Snape, the Potions 

 Master and ex-Headmaster of Hogwarts.  Both have dads who are Muggles which therefore 

 makes their respective sons not pure-blood.  As both are sorted into Slytherin, it seems 

 the House of Slytherin does not require pure-blood status.  

 > 

 > Now to your earlier question... Squibs are not considered pure-blood even though they 

 may have pure-blood heritage because they cannot perform magic.  In fact, Squibs aren't 

 really considered at all... but that's a different issue.  I believe it is possible for a Squib to 

 have a child who is a witch/wizard, but that child will not be considered pure-blood if it is 

 discovered that one of the parents is a Squib.


 

 Stacy again:

 OMG! I feel sooooo stupid asking that question about Slytherin requiring pure blood 

 status.  Half Blood Prince (Snape), Tom Riddle.  DUH!!!  Yes, I have read all the books.  

 Though reading HP while trying to earn a second college degree and raise a daughter, 

 sometimes I just breeze through them without processing everything.  

 

 As to the blood status thing.  Would the grandchildren of a squib and a wizard be 

 considered pure blood if their parents are witches/wizards?

 

 

Kemper again:
I don't think so as Harry is considered an Half-Blood even though both his parents are magical.  So he must be considered Half Blood because his mom's parents are Muggles.  I'm guessing that if even one of them was magical and the other a Muggle or Squib then Harry would still be considered an Half-Blood.

I'm also guessing that Harry's kids are considered Full Blood if not Pure Blood as all sets of grandparents are magical.  However, I don't recall Full Blood being used as a description in the books so my assumption is canon weak.

Kemper, who hearts Figgy




       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  



From medicpaige at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 20:30:36 2007
From: medicpaige at yahoo.com (Paige)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:30:36 -0000
Subject: Need a recomendation- Snape costume
Message-ID: <fbhqtc+r77g@eGroups.com>

Does anyone have any suggestions for where to purchase a high-quality
Snape costume? I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

Paige



From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Tue Sep  4 00:03:59 2007
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:03:59 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <favm2v+6tqr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbi7df+19qh@eGroups.com>

Steve:
> If you are ever in Texas, ask a native speaker to
> say these two words - ALL and OIL. They both sound
> the same to an outsider, but Texans can tell the
> difference. Next ask them to say - SEX and SAX, 
> again, the same to an outsider, but distinctly 
> different to a Texan. 
> 
> "Why don't you ALL come to Texan and we'll ALL each
> other up and have SAX while my friend watches and
> plays his SAX."
> 
> To a Texan, that makes sense.
> 
> I say technically there is a subtle difference between
> Serious and Sirius, but from the perspective of 
> common everyday speech, they are essentially the same.
> 
> British - glacier - glah-see-ear
> 
> American - glacier - glay-shear
> 
> Lots of talking...said nothing.


Jen: I realized no Texan has weighed in to dispute your claim. ;)  As 
usual, the relativity of accents depends on the area and personal 
influences.  I spent 18 years growing up in the 'all' town of Midland 
b/c my Dad was in the business, yet say the word 'oil' unless I'm 
putting on the sometimes thick accent of the area.  My Dad was from 
Florida and my Mom from N. Texas so neither spoke with a W. Texas 
accent.  We kids followed suit to a certain extent even though we 
have more of a drawl than either of my parents. 

Of course, I may be kidding myself and someone living in another area 
wouldn't be able to tell the difference between my 'oil' and 'all' 
even though they sound completely different when I say them in my 
head. <g>

Texas is a peculiar state in that accents are greatly influenced by 
neighboring areas as much as the rest of the state (most likely due 
to size).  For example, E. Texans tend to sound more Southern to my 
ear than other Texans, and when I lived in Corpus Christi on the Gulf 
coast, the accent is very much influenced by Spanish language in 
terms of phonology (think that's the correct term for how words sound 
as they're spoken: the pattern, rate, inflection, etc.)

Jen, who thinks mary, merry and marry sound exactly the same when she 
says them aloud.  




From medicpaige at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 02:04:14 2007
From: medicpaige at yahoo.com (Paige)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 02:04:14 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fbi7df+19qh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbieeu+ngvq@eGroups.com>

I am also a Texan, and I loath the 'southern' method of speaking. I
say 'oil' and I have to put out there that if you are going to visit
Dallas, Austin, Houston, San Antonio or any other major city in Texas,
you will be unlikely to encounter anyone who speaks in this manner. We
do say 'y'all' quite a bit in familiar settings, but thats about it.
If you travel to the small towns, only then will you find that more
than half of the population use 'All' for 'oil' and so on.

Paige



From anita_hillin at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 16:07:45 2007
From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (anita_hillin)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:07:45 -0000
Subject: Thanks to everyone who helped with the UK postal question
Message-ID: <fbjvsh+g8rm@eGroups.com>

Now that I'm back in the office and ready to work on my database,
thank you everyone who answered my query.  It sounds as though I
should make sure that I have a name of house/address,  town and postal
code, and the country should be UK.  Our alumni will be so impressed!

You're all great!

akh, who would like to figure out a way to visit each and every alum
in the UK....




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  4 18:51:55 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:51:55 -0000
Subject: Thanks to everyone who helped with the UK postal question
In-Reply-To: <fbjvsh+g8rm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbk9gb+npuo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anita_hillin" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
>
> Now that I'm back in the office and ready to work on my database,
> thank you everyone who answered my query.  It sounds as though I
> should make sure that I have a name of house/address,  town and postal
> code, and the country should be UK.  Our alumni will be so impressed!
> 
> You're all great!
> 
> akh, who would like to figure out a way to visit each and every alum
> in the UK....

Geoff:
With respect,  I think you mean alumnus. If you want to visit alum, a 
trip to the Chemistry department of your local school or college would 
suffice... :-)





From snapes_witch at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:03:53 2007
From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:03:53 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <876158.33613.qm@web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbka6p+a9dt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor 
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:
> 
> I'm also guessing that Harry's kids are considered Full Blood if 
not Pure Blood as all sets of grandparents are magical.  However, I 
don't recall Full Blood being used as a description in the books so 
my assumption is canon weak.
> 
> Kemper, who hearts Figgy
> 
>

There's no canon designation of full-blood; only pure-blood, half-
blood, and muggle-born (and Muggle, of course).  Some people say that 
Harry's and Ginny's kids would be pure-blood but I don't see how 
because Harry remains a half-blood.  Some fans confuse magical status 
with blood status, which isn't the same at all.  If two Muggle-borns 
marry, their children aren't going to be pure-blood even though both 
parents are magical.

Snape's Witch




From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:25:32 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:25:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 9-4=Dan R talks about H P #7 & NEW movie=December Boys !
Message-ID: <200709041925.l84JPWAI006964@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
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If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
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and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:32:07 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 5-7 H P Photo's
Message-ID: <200709041932.l84JW9CR009065@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.1kveeosf&x=1&h=1&y=-s3jsd4
If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. Once you've 
signed in, you'll be able to view this album whenever you want 
and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

Enjoy!
Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're
an existing member you'll be asked to sign in. If not, you can 
join the Gallery for free.
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------------------------------------------------------------
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:41:04 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:41:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry Potter Photo's
Message-ID: <200709041941.l84Jf5ej012419@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.9hpqfi1b&x=1&h=1&y=r6wj91
If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. Once you've 
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and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

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an existing member you'll be asked to sign in. If not, you can 
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:37:48 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 10 Photo's about H P
Message-ID: <200709041937.l84JboT8011083@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:45:27 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 27 more H P Photo's
Message-ID: <200709041945.l84JjR48013627@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
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If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. Once you've 
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and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

Enjoy!
Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:52:02 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 137 Photo's on H P
Message-ID: <200709041952.l84Jq2VA016422@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 19:48:27 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #5 H P Movie
Message-ID: <200709041948.l84JmRe3014590@upsa-web111.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 20:00:55 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:00:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 44 more H P Photo's
Message-ID: <200709042000.l84K0tfk023322@upsa-web107.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 20:04:39 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:04:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: J K R * Harry Potter *
Message-ID: <200709042004.l84K4dhZ024534@upsa-web107.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 20:07:42 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:07:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 22 more H P Photo's
Message-ID: <200709042007.l84K7hbR025372@upsa-web107.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.3plzkawv&x=1&h=1&y=-2ah9fc
If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
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From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 20:10:59 2007
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:10:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: only 2 photo's
Message-ID: <200709042010.l84KAx0E026033@upsa-web107.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK EASYSHARE Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.2nhapjuv&x=1&h=1&y=en137c
If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
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Enjoy!
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From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 05:17:50 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 05:17:50 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <fbka6p+a9dt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fble5u+7u6h@eGroups.com>

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor 
> <kempermentor@> wrote:
> > 
> > I'm also guessing that Harry's kids are considered Full Blood if 
> not Pure Blood as all sets of grandparents are magical.  However, 
I don't recall Full Blood being used as a description in the books 
so my assumption is canon weak.

Snape's witch said:
> There's no canon designation of full-blood; only pure-blood, half-
> blood, and muggle-born (and Muggle, of course).  Some people say 
that Harry's and Ginny's kids would be pure-blood but I don't see 
how because Harry remains a half-blood.  Some fans confuse magical 
status with blood status, which isn't the same at all.  If two 
Muggle-borns marry, their children aren't going to be pure-blood 
even though both parents are magical.

Tonks_op
I agree with Snape's Witch. Because Lily was a Muggle born her 
gradchildren would not be pure blood. I am not sure how long the 
blood line would have to go before they would forget about Lily. I 
am not sure that they ever forget about any Muggle born in a family 
line. I remember some reference to that in the books.. but forget 
where. It might have been Sirius when he was explaining the family 
tree to Harry. He said something to the effect that there had to be 
a few Muggles here and there or they would have all died out. But no 
one who values 'pure blood' would ever mention "those people" in 
their family line, I am sure.

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 05:23:37 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 05:23:37 -0000
Subject: Need a recomendation- Snape costume
In-Reply-To: <fbhqtc+r77g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fblegp+heca@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Paige" <medicpaige at ...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for where to purchase a high-quality
> Snape costume? I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
> 
> Paige
>

Tonks:

http://www.orderofmerlin.com  can make one for you.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Sep  5 12:37:03 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:37:03 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <576484.32944.qm@web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbm7tf+1050n@eGroups.com>

 
> Kemper now:
> I'm not sure if you read the books, so I hope I'm not spoiling 
anything, but Voldemort who's real name is Tom Riddle was sorted into 
Slytherin as was Severus Snape, the Potions Master and ex-Headmaster 
of Hogwarts.  Both have dads who are Muggles which therefore makes 
their respective sons not pure-blood.  As both are sorted into 
Slytherin, it seems the House of Slytherin does not require pure-
blood status.

Potioncat:
Which is very hard to understand, but is canon. I would think a Half-
blood would have to prove himself within the house. Snape seems very 
successful, but I'm sure he's said a few choice words about his 
Muggle father.


> Kemper:
> Now to your earlier question... Squibs are not considered pure-
blood even though they may have pure-blood heritage because they 
cannot perform magic.

Potioncat:
Just for fun I'm being contrary here, but is there canon for Squibs 
not being Pureblood? Yes, I know they are an embarassment to their 
families and certainly many would not want their child to marry a 
Squib.

But, I would think an offspring of a Squib and a Witch/Wizard could 
claim blood status. I would think there would be less stigma to 
having a Squib for a parent than a Muggle for a parent. The fanfic 
could be written either way---depending on how Stacy wanted to take 
it.

OK, so Stacy, you already know there will conflict whichever way you 
go with this. Hmmm--could be very interesting. Please let me know 
when you've posted the fic.

Potioncat

 
 






From anita_hillin at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 13:42:44 2007
From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (AnitaKH)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 06:42:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thanks to everyone who helped with the UK postal question
Message-ID: <546350.87945.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

 Geoff pointed out:
 With respect,  I think you mean alumnus. If you want to visit alum, a 
 trip to the Chemistry department of your local school or college would 
 suffice... :-)

akh explains (after smiling at the reply):

"Alum" in my industry is shorthand for alumnus/alumna, so we don't have to specify a gender (PC, anyone?).  As it happens, I could have said "alumna" because the school for which I work was a girls' college prep school through 1962 and didn't graduate a boy until 1968, so all the folks in the UK are women.  

My mother always had alum in the kitchen cabinets, since she was big on pickling vegetables.  I do think of that from time to time when I use the term...

akh, who does NOT have any alumni in her kitchen cabinets, although there may be a couple of kittens...
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep  5 19:34:32 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:34:32 -0000
Subject: Thanks to everyone who helped with the UK postal question
In-Reply-To: <546350.87945.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbn0c8+g6sg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, AnitaKH <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
>
>  Geoff pointed out:
>  With respect,  I think you mean alumnus. If you want to visit alum, a 
>  trip to the Chemistry department of your local school or college would 
>  suffice... :-)
> 
> akh explains (after smiling at the reply):
> 
> "Alum" in my industry is shorthand for alumnus/alumna, so we don't have to specify a 
gender (PC, anyone?).  As it happens, I could have said "alumna" because the school for 
which I work was a girls' college prep school through 1962 and didn't graduate a boy until 
1968, so all the folks in the UK are women.  
> 
> My mother always had alum in the kitchen cabinets, since she was big on pickling 
vegetables.  I do think of that from time to time when I use the term...
> 
> akh, who does NOT have any alumni in her kitchen cabinets, although there may be a 
couple of kittens...

Geoff:
Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut,  living on the nice side of the 'pond'  ;-)

Alumnus/alumni are words very rarely used in UK English.




From stacygalore at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 01:48:25 2007
From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:48:25 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <fble5u+7u6h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbnm99+o0j1@eGroups.com>


> > <kempermentor@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I'm also guessing that Harry's kids are considered Full Blood if 
> > not Pure Blood as all sets of grandparents are magical.  However, 
> I don't recall Full Blood being used as a description in the books 
> so my assumption is canon weak.
> 
> Snape's witch said:
> > There's no canon designation of full-blood; only pure-blood, half-
> > blood, and muggle-born (and Muggle, of course).  Some people say 
> that Harry's and Ginny's kids would be pure-blood but I don't see 
> how because Harry remains a half-blood.  Some fans confuse magical 
> status with blood status, which isn't the same at all.  If two 
> Muggle-borns marry, their children aren't going to be pure-blood 
> even though both parents are magical.
> 
> Tonks_op
> I agree with Snape's Witch. Because Lily was a Muggle born her 
> gradchildren would not be pure blood. I am not sure how long the 
> blood line would have to go before they would forget about Lily. I 
> am not sure that they ever forget about any Muggle born in a family 
> line. I remember some reference to that in the books.. but forget 
> where. It might have been Sirius when he was explaining the family 
> tree to Harry. He said something to the effect that there had to be 
> a few Muggles here and there or they would have all died out. But no 
> one who values 'pure blood' would ever mention "those people" in 
> their family line, I am sure.

Stacy here again:
OK so I did some digging in the HP Lexicon, which says little re: squib blood status.  The 
lexicon defines Pure Blood as follows:

pure-blood
A witch or wizard of 'pure' wizarding ancestry, without any Muggle ancestors whatsoever 
as far as can be determined.

The Lexicon then goes on to describe a sqib as follows:

A Squib is not a Muggle. Born to a wizarding family, a Squib has such a low level of 
magical power that he or she is essentially unable to do any magic at all. However, while a 
Squib cannot cast spells, he or she can apparently see magical beings such as poltergeists, 
though not dementors (JKR).

So this leads me to believe that if there is a squib in the lineage, it does not change the 
blood status of the descendants, so long as there are no muggles or muggle-borns in the 
family.

And just an aside, in ch.1 of DH, Voldemort mentions something about getting rid of 
everybody else so that only those of the "true blood" remain.  He never says "pure blood" 
because he is a half-blood himself.  He is so much like Hitler here.  

Thanks all for your thoughts on this issue.  The fic I'm going to write will tackle racism and 
prejudice in the wizarding world, and how a death eater is "made".  I will post on the 
HPFGU announcement board when the first chapters will be online, though I don't forsee it 
happening any time soon.  I have a lot of research to do.









From jeopardy18 at comcast.net  Thu Sep  6 03:21:48 2007
From: jeopardy18 at comcast.net (seanmulligan2000)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 03:21:48 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <fbnm99+o0j1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbnroc+oqa6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "stacygalore" 
<stacygalore at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > > <kempermentor@> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I'm also guessing that Harry's kids are considered Full Blood 
if 
> > > not Pure Blood as all sets of grandparents are magical.  
However, 
> > I don't recall Full Blood being used as a description in the 
books 
> > so my assumption is canon weak.
> > 
> > Snape's witch said:
> > > There's no canon designation of full-blood; only pure-blood, 
half-
> > > blood, and muggle-born (and Muggle, of course).  Some people 
say 
> > that Harry's and Ginny's kids would be pure-blood but I don't see 
> > how because Harry remains a half-blood.  Some fans confuse 
magical 
> > status with blood status, which isn't the same at all.  If two 
> > Muggle-borns marry, their children aren't going to be pure-blood 
> > even though both parents are magical.
> > 
> > Tonks_op
> > I agree with Snape's Witch. Because Lily was a Muggle born her 
> > gradchildren would not be pure blood. I am not sure how long the 
> > blood line would have to go before they would forget about Lily. 
I 
> > am not sure that they ever forget about any Muggle born in a 
family 
> > line. I remember some reference to that in the books.. but forget 
> > where. It might have been Sirius when he was explaining the 
family 
> > tree to Harry. He said something to the effect that there had to 
be 
> > a few Muggles here and there or they would have all died out. But 
no 
> > one who values 'pure blood' would ever mention "those people" in 
> > their family line, I am sure.
> 
> Stacy here again:
> OK so I did some digging in the HP Lexicon, which says little re: 
squib blood status.  The 
> lexicon defines Pure Blood as follows:
> 
> pure-blood
> A witch or wizard of 'pure' wizarding ancestry, without any Muggle 
ancestors whatsoever 
> as far as can be determined.
> 
> The Lexicon then goes on to describe a sqib as follows:
> 
> A Squib is not a Muggle. Born to a wizarding family, a Squib has 
such a low level of 
> magical power that he or she is essentially unable to do any magic 
at all. However, while a 
> Squib cannot cast spells, he or she can apparently see magical 
beings such as poltergeists, 
> though not dementors (JKR).
> 
> So this leads me to believe that if there is a squib in the 
lineage, it does not change the 
> blood status of the descendants, so long as there are no muggles or 
muggle-borns in the 
> .  
> 
> Thanks all for your thoughts on this issue.  The fic I'm going to 
write will tackle racism and 
> prejudice in the wizarding world, and how a death eater is "made".  
I will post on the 
> HPFGU announcement board when the first chapters will be online, 
though I don't forsee it 
> happening any time soon.  I have a lot of research to do.
>

That sounds like a great fic. 




From random832 at fastmail.us  Thu Sep  6 03:24:38 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:24:38 -0400
Subject: On phonetics, phonology, and homophones.
In-Reply-To: <fb1pj6+ag93@eGroups.com>
References: <fb1pj6+ag93@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46DF72F6.4070803@fastmail.us>

(If I seem to ramble, it's because i'm not good at organizing long posts)

potioncat wrote:
>> Carol:
>> Or how about "merry," "marry," and "Mary"? All homonyms for me, though
>> I realize that Easterners, Southerners, and possibly Midwesterners may
>> distinguish among them, or at least between one or two of the three.
>> As for Brits from various regions, I have no idea.
>>
> 
> 
> Potioncat;
> Well I "see" merry differently, but I think I hear them all the same. 
> Don't ask what I mean by that, but it makes sense to me. 
> 
> Our daughter's name is Sarah, a pretty name I think, but even I cringe 
> when we visit my relatives in Southern US where her name becomes Say-
> ruh. And of course, Kathleen is three syllables.
> 
> Back to Serious/Sirius. Must be my Southern ears. The i and e sound 
> alike, which is why I ask for a straight pin or an ink pen when I want 
> either, because otherwise how would you know which to give me?

Random832:
Well, it's not really the same "e" sound as in "pen" - it's actually a 
longer sound, like in "see" - which most people say in sirius, because 
of the two factors I've mentioned - sirius is an unfamiliar word so when 
guessing how to pronounce it people will go with serious, and also 
because it's an unfamiliar word, if people hear it pronounced property 
they'll put down the different vowel to the other person's accent

gah, I wish I could use IPA, or accented letters, or something to 
demonstrate this.

If anyone knows ASCII IPA or X-SAMPA notation: the vowel sound in 
"serious" is /i/, the vowel sound in "sirius" is /I/

in common dictionary notation, /i/ is an 'i' with a ^ over it (and only 
occurs before 'r' in english) - the same vowel as in "beer", and doesn't 
have the "glide" [y-ish ending] at the end like the one in "bee"

/I/ is a "short i" [i.e., 'i' with a rounded tihng opening upward over 
it, kind of like a tiny 'U', or really more shaped like '(' turned 
sideways to the left: the same vowel as "pin", (or, for you, "pen") and 
one not often seen before 'r'].

That is also the ONLY difference between the pronunciations of the two 
words - I'm not sure what the idea that -us is pronounced differently 
than -ous is coming from - having a "hint of 'o'" in any "-ous" ending 
would definitely come off as, well, pretentiOSS to my ears, and the 
historical record of how "-ou-" sounds have been behaved makes it 
extremely unlikely. (both words have a mere schwa /@/ in that position)

bboyminn:
 > The distinction made on the first part is the
 > difference between a standard short 'I' or 'I' marked
 > with a 'breve' (Sirius), and a 'circumflex' or a 'caret'
 > above the 'I' for the other(serious). Though for the
 > life of me, I can't find any pronunciation guide that
 > explains exactly how a letter modified by a 'circumflex'
 > should be pronounced.

Random832:
Well - the modifiers used in traditional english dictionaries have 
always been a bit haphazard. the circumflex normally refers to the short 
"proper" vowels:
a^ = /e/ as in 'bare'
i^ = /i/ as in 'beer'
o^ = /o/ as in 'bore'
u^r is occasionally used as a substitute for a stressed @r (@ = schwa)

of the three, "marry" is marked as a-breve, "merry" as e-breve, "mary" 
as a-circumflex

Geoff:
 >There has been a supposedly funny version of the
 > books in circulation, involving the adventures of "Hairy Potter
 > and the." but this is definitely NOT a homophone of Harry
 > in UK English.

Random832:
Gah - this is the point that irritates me the most about this thread, 
regardless of if you're talking about thickness, serious, or hairy - you 
don't need a homophone to have a pun!

...
Anyway, Like i said, it's a familiarity thing - if your first exposure 
to the name "Sirius" is through HP, and, well, they all have british 
accents, the difference in pronunciation might go right past you, and 
you'd maybe even subconsciously assume that they pronounce "Serious" the 
same way.

Carol:
 > The actors don't, however, seem to agree on the pronunciation of
 > "Cruciatus Curse." Neville pronounces "Cruciatus" as I do (krew shee A
 > tus, with an accented short "a"

Random832:
Is it a short "a" as in "cat", or as in "father"? (assuming these two 
are different)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_short_A 
for the gory details on these two 'short "a"'s - it's towards the end.

Carol:
 >), but Karkaroff has what I would
 > consider a more distinctively British pronunciation (krew shee AY
 > tus), with an accented long "a" rather than a short one. (Karkaroff
 > may have a Slavic name, but he seems to have attended Hogwarts, so he
 > qualifies as a Brit in my view. Of course, the nationality of the
 > actor may be the real deciding factor.)

Random832:
Not exactly "British" as such, I think. It's a much more English (as in 
the language itself, not any particular regional accent) pronunciation, 
as opposed to Neville's more Latin-ish rendition. To me, it suggests 
that Neville has a much better classical education (from his grandmother 
making him study such things at home, one assumes) than Karkaroff.

Carol:
 > Also Snape's pronunciation of "Veritaserum" as "VAIR ih tuh SEER um"
 > (secondary accent on "seer") caught me offguard the first time around.
 > I pronounce it "vuh RITE uh seer um." Very American of me,

Random832:
Again, more English vs Latin than American vs British.

(not bothering to quote anyone, all/oil)
Again, I would bet anything that the distinction that native texans can 
detect between these pronunciations is of the caught-cot variety, and 
can be heard by anyone who keeps that distinction even if they 
themselves would not pronounce oil as, what I'll ("I'll" itself being a 
word rather more likely to be completely merged with "all" in various 
dialects) call 'oll'.



From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 03:26:30 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 03:26:30 -0000
Subject: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <fbf3cn+7oda@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbns16+rtqv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" 
<sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
>
> Steve:
> > I still say in the region I'm in, in common daily
> > speech, virtually no one would make any distinction
> > between any of the words discussed.
> 
> Magpie:
> This is one of the most basic distinctions in regional accents in the 
US as well, isn't it? Where I'm from the distinction would be common.

Tonks:
I am SOooooo confused listening to all of this talk and the distinction 
in the U.K.. I tried to say that, but just couldn't get the sound 
right. I am with Steve... where I live Harry is Hairy and Sirius is 
Serious... all the same here. Midwest.




From random832 at fastmail.us  Thu Sep  6 03:24:27 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:24:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of
 Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <fbka6p+a9dt@eGroups.com>
References: <fbka6p+a9dt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46DF72EB.9040205@fastmail.us>

Elizabeth Snape wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, kemper mentor 
> <kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>> I'm also guessing that Harry's kids are considered Full Blood if 
> not Pure Blood as all sets of grandparents are magical.  However, I 
> don't recall Full Blood being used as a description in the books so 
> my assumption is canon weak.
>> Kemper, who hearts Figgy
>>
> 
> There's no canon designation of full-blood; only pure-blood, half-
> blood, and muggle-born (and Muggle, of course).  Some people say that 
> Harry's and Ginny's kids would be pure-blood but I don't see how 
> because Harry remains a half-blood.

Given that JKR said she discovered (to her horror) that the charts she 
had made lined up exactly with Nazi charts: based on that, they would 
still be considered halfblood* (as we're told several times that a 
muggleborn is considered the same as a muggle, so being magical doesn't 
matter for that), but their own children (if with a pureblood) would be 
considered pureblood.


see:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischling
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany
for the nasty details.


* While a distinction is drawn between two different "degrees" in the 
Nazi worldview, we're not given any term other than "halfblood" in canon 
for the wizarding world.



From random832 at fastmail.us  Thu Sep  6 03:48:25 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:48:25 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <fba6uf+glnp@eGroups.com>
References: <fba6uf+glnp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46DF7889.7030108@fastmail.us>

Steve wrote:
> Once again, since people, especially people in the UK,
> see a distinct difference between Harry and Hairy, I
> looked in my dictionary (Am. Heritage CD-ROM) for the
> difference. I found the difference is roughly the same
> as Sirius and Serious.

Random832:
I think you've got the "as in"'s backwards below:

Steve:
> Hairy is hr'ee. The second letter is a circumflex 'A'.
> As in 'pat'.

Not quite. The "circumflex 'a'" /e/ occurs almost (I can't tihnk of any 
counterexamples) before 'r', and the closest other sound is the "long e" 
/eI/ that occurs in 'pay'.

Steve.
> Harry is har'ee. The second letter is a standard Short
> 'A'. As in 'pay'. 

The vowel in "pay" is no kind of 'short'. The short 'a' (ascii-ipa 
notations differ; xsampa: /{/; erkipa /&/; in true IPA it's an "ae" 
ligature) occurs in "pat". Of course, in some forms of british english 
there may be a hint of the "broad 'a'" (sounds a bit like the vowel in 
"father", but is slightly different. occurs in places the short 'a' 
would occur in other dialects)

> Sirius is sir'ee-es. The second letter is a standard
> short 'I' as in 'pit'. The second to the last letter
> is an inverted 'E' as in 'itEm'. 

> 
> Sirious is sr'ee-es. Second letter circumfles 'I' as
> in 'peir'. Second to the last letter is an inverted
> 'E'.
> 
> Even with this pronunciation clarification. I still see
> the difference as subtle to nonexistent. 
> 
> Other seem to have indicated they said and heard a 
> distinct difference between 'harry' and 'hairy', though
> I simply can't imagine what it could be. 
> 
> Care to elaborate?
> 
> Is it the difference between 'car' and 'air'?

No, it's _exactly_ marry/mary - the distinction doesn't exist at all in 
most american dialects -- including my own, but with my (very limited) 
knowledge of phonology I can fake it and hear the difference.

Read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_r#Mary-marry-merry_merger

Now, "Hairy" rhymes with "Mary", "Harry" rhymes with "Marry".

/&/ ("ae ligature" in real ipa) is the same vowel as in "mat"
/E/ ("epsilon" in real ipa) is the same vowel as in "met"
that "historical /eI/" is the /e/ i've been talking about, the "normal" 
a-circumflex. Since the sounds are merged, the sounds we actually make 
for all three may be somewhere between the "proper" versions.

> Harr-ee and Hair-ee? 
> 
> Pehaps the problem is that we have reached the limits
> of the extent to which differences can be conveyed in
> printed words or phrases?
> 
> Still, even though we haven't really resolved anything,
> it's been interesting to explore the cultural 
> differences in language.
> 
> I still say in the region I'm in, in common daily
> speech, virtually no one would make any distinction
> between any of the words discussed.

The issue is _different_ with sirius/serious - in that case, it's just 
that sirius has a sound pair that occurs in virtually no other words (I 
challenge anyone to find another listed "short i"-"r" pair), so it's 
unfamiliar if you don't know the specific word, if you hear someone else 
say it you tend to put it down to accent differences (and assume they'd 
say "serious" the same way).

> Steve/bboyminn



From jnferr at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 04:44:45 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:44:45 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <46DF7889.7030108@fastmail.us>
References: <fba6uf+glnp@eGroups.com> <46DF7889.7030108@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709052144h1384b0ado9f861ac416509fb4@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Random832:
> The issue is _different_ with sirius/serious - in that case, it's just
> that sirius has a sound pair that occurs in virtually no other words (I
> challenge anyone to find another listed "short i"-"r" pair), so it's
> unfamiliar if you don't know the specific word, if you hear someone else
> say it you tend to put it down to accent differences (and assume they'd
> say "serious" the same way).


montims:
I've snipped most of an excellent post - apologies.  I just wanted to
respond to the challenge with "irritate"?  Pyramus?  (the lover of Thisbe in
Midsummer Night's Dream)  Also Sirius rhymes with Bilius (with the
"oriental" l/r confusion) - Ron's middle name.

Gosh - the poor horse should be buried by now, but I just can't leave off
flogging it...  I know it must be terribly exasperating for Americans who
can't hear the difference, but for a Brit it is equally frustrating that the
difference cannot be communicated.  You know if you have a child who
persists in saying widdle instead of little, or fink and fought instead of
think and thought - it doesn't matter how many times someone says let it go
- don't stifle his/her creativity, but you CAN'T?  You have to keep
interrupting with the right word - "it's not goed and speaked - it's went
and spoke - what's the MATTER with you?"

Oh - that's just me?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 07:16:33 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 00:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <524939.64893.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> Kemper earlier:

 > Now to your earlier question... Squibs are not considered pure-

 blood even though they may have pure-blood heritage because they 

 cannot perform magic.

 

 Potioncat challenged:

 Just for fun I'm being contrary here, but is there canon for Squibs 

 not being Pureblood? Yes, I know they are an embarassment to their 

 families and certainly many would not want their child to marry a 

 Squib.

 

 But, I would think an offspring of a Squib and a Witch/Wizard could 

 claim blood status. I would think there would be less stigma to 

 having a Squib for a parent than a Muggle for a parent. The fanfic 

 could be written either way---depending on how Stacy wanted to take 

 it.

 

Stacy found definition on Lexicon:

OK so I did some digging in the HP Lexicon, which says little re: squib blood status.  The 

lexicon defines Pure Blood as follows:



pure-blood

A witch or wizard of 'pure' wizarding ancestry, without any Muggle ancestors whatsoever 

as far as can be determined.



The Lexicon then goes on to describe a sqib as follows:



A Squib is not a Muggle. Born to a wizarding family, a Squib has such a low level of 

magical power that he or she is essentially unable to do any magic at all. However, while a 

Squib cannot cast spells, he or she can apparently see magical beings such as poltergeists, 

though not dementors (JKR).



So this leads me to believe that if there is a squib in the lineage, it does not change the 

blood status of the descendants, so long as there are no muggles or muggle-borns in the 

family.


Kemper now:
I take up the challenge, Potioncat!
Stacy, while the Lexicon may be accurate in with the facts, it is what the WW does with the facts, its culture, that is relevant to your question which I don't think the Lexicon answers.  

Canon from Chamber of Secrets:
Foot high words had been daubed on the wall between two windows....
THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS HAS BEEN OPENED.  ENEMIES OF THE HEIR, BEWARE.

Later, Mr. Filch blames Harry for the writing on the wall because Harry earlier had seen Mr. Filch's Kwickspell letter.  Canon:
"He did it, he did it! ... You saw what he [Harry] wrote on the wall!  He found -- in my office -- he knows I'm a -- I'm a -- He knows I'm a Squib!"

This suggests that Mr. Filch, a Squib who apparently grew up within the culture of the WW, believes himself to be one of the 'enemies of the heir' of Slytherin.  Slytherin who took students with 'ancestry purest'.  Slytherin who is made out to be the big Muggle and Muggleborn hater.  (Which seems evident by Muggleborns being petrified throughout the book... even though it was Little Lord Volderboy who was directing the petrifying.)

If Mr. Filch thought himself to be Pure Blood (or Half-Blood for that matter), he wouldn't care what was written on the wall, only that Mrs. Norris was petrified and hanging underneath the foot high words.

It's not his lineage that Mr. Filch cares about, it's his inability to perform magic which makes him like a Muggle, an enemy of the Heir.

Kemper

 





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 



From random832 at fastmail.us  Thu Sep  6 12:03:32 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:03:32 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of
 Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <524939.64893.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <524939.64893.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46DFEC94.40701@fastmail.us>

> Kemper now:
> This suggests that Mr. Filch, a Squib who apparently grew up within the culture of
> the WW, believes himself to be one of the 'enemies of the heir' of Slytherin.

Take "enemies of the heir" apart instead of analyzing it as a set 
phrase. He [reasonably, if incorrectly] believes the 'heir' to be 
someone who is currently a student. He [again, reasonably] believes that 
all the students at Hogwarts see him as their enemy (though he 
apparently believes this to be due to prejudice against him as a squib, 
rather than, say, his winning personality). And his cat has just been, 
so far as anyone knows, deliberately attacked.



From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Sep  6 12:38:09 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:38:09 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <524939.64893.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbosbh+3hq1@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote: 
> If Mr. Filch thought himself to be Pure Blood (or Half-Blood for 
that matter), he wouldn't care what was written on the wall, only 
that Mrs. Norris was petrified and hanging underneath the foot high 
words.
> 
> It's not his lineage that Mr. Filch cares about, it's his inability 
to perform magic which makes him like a Muggle, an enemy of the Heir.



Potioncat:
Canon fire starboard bow! Good shot.
<loading own can(n)on while bailing water>

DH, chapter 1. We have LV ranting at the very idea of Wizarding kind 
marryin Muggles. Yet, at LV's right hand sits an offspring of just 
such a union. 

I have no doubt that LV would not deal kindly with Eileen Snape, 
should he have reason to come in contact with her, yet he accepts her 
son. So I would think a child of a Squib/Wizarding union would be 
accepted.

On the other hand, if the child of either of those matches was in 
full support of his non-magical parent, it might be a different 
situation. Though, we don't have canon for how Snape describes his 
father to his Slytherin friends.











From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 16:45:08 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <71179.90699.qm@web90408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


>> Kemper wrote earlier: 

>> If Mr. Filch thought himself to be Pure Blood (or Half-Blood for 

 that matter), he wouldn't care what was written on the wall, only 

 that Mrs. Norris was petrified and hanging underneath the foot high 

 words.

 >> 

 >> It's not his lineage that Mr. Filch cares about, it's his inability 

 to perform magic which makes him like a Muggle, an enemy of the Heir.

 


> Potioncat:

 > Canon fire starboard bow! Good shot.

> :: loading own can(n)on while bailing water ::
 

> DH, chapter 1. We have LV ranting at the very idea of Wizarding kind 

 marryin Muggles. Yet, at LV's right hand sits an offspring of just 

 such a union. 

 

> I have no doubt that LV would not deal kindly with Eileen Snape, 

 should he have reason to come in contact with her, yet he accepts her 

 son. So I would think a child of a Squib/Wizarding union would be 

 accepted.

 


Kemper now, loading can(n)on from PS/SS:
"Well, my gran brought me up and she's a witch," said [Pure Blood] Neville, "but the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages."

'All-Muggle' seems to be a euphemism for 'Squib'.  And that's being said by sweet Neville.  
If Neville were brought up in the Malfoy household, would they think Neville was 'all-Muggle' or 'all-Mudblood'?   

[loading more can(n)on fire, this time from HBP]:
Merope had dropped one of the pots.
"Pick it up!" Gaunt bellowed at her. "That's it, grub on the floor like some filthy Muggle, what's your wand for, you useless sack of muck?"
...Merope... lost her grip on the pot again, drew her wand..., and muttered ... inaudible spell that caused the pot to ... hit the opposite was, and crack in two.
...Gaunt screamed, "Mend it, you pointless lump, mend it!"
...but Ogden had lifted his own wand... [and repaired it].
[Gaunt] jeered at his daughter,'... Perhaps [Ogden]'ll take you off my hands, perhaps he doesn't mind dirty Squibs..."

Guant, who later glorifies his lineage (Generations of purebloods, wizards all), compares his pureblood daughter to a 'filthy Muggle' as well as to a 'dirty Squib'.  

The status of Muggle and Squib are equal for those who care about blood lineage.

Did I sink your battleship, Potioncat? :)

Kemper






       
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Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
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From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 16:53:39 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:53:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <333293.93881.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> Take "enemies of the heir" apart instead of analyzing it as a set 

 phrase. He [reasonably, if incorrectly] believes the 'heir' to be 

 someone who is currently a student. He [again, reasonably] believes that 

 all the students at Hogwarts see him as their enemy (though he 

 apparently believes this to be due to prejudice against him as a squib, 

 rather than, say, his winning personality) . And his cat has just been, 

 so far as anyone knows, deliberately attacked.


Kemper now:
But the phase suggests more than one, 'enemies', and there are not two or more Mr. Filches.  Unless you are saying that it is Mr. Filch and Mrs. Norris who are the 'enemies'... which honestly, doesn't sound very reasonable even for Filch.  Plus, the cat was already taken out, so the phrase would have to change to 'enemy' of the heir.

I think it is more reasonable for Mr. Filch to have heard of the Chamber of Secrets and what had happened 50 years earlier to a Muggleborn witch in the girl's bathroom.

Kemper
 





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ 



From kkersey at swbell.net  Thu Sep  6 17:24:42 2007
From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:24:42 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <333293.93881.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbpd4q+ri0e@eGroups.com>

Random wrote:
>
> > Take "enemies of the heir" apart instead of analyzing it as a set 
> 
>  phrase. He [reasonably, if incorrectly] believes the 'heir' to be 
> 
>  someone who is currently a student. He [again, reasonably] believes
that 
> 
>  all the students at Hogwarts see him as their enemy (though he 
> 
>  apparently believes this to be due to prejudice against him as a
squib, 
> 
>  rather than, say, his winning personality) . And his cat has just
been, 
> 
>  so far as anyone knows, deliberately attacked.


Kemper replied:
> But the phase suggests more than one, 'enemies', and there are not
> two or more Mr. Filches.  Unless you are saying that it is Mr. Filch
> and Mrs. Norris who are the 'enemies'... which honestly, doesn't 
> sound very reasonable even for Filch.  Plus, the cat was already 
> taken out, so the phrase would have to change to 'enemy' of the
> heir.

Elisabet jumps in:

Not necessarily - surely the heir can have a number of enemies who are
enemies for a variety of reasons. Filch, because he is bound to be on
every student (including the heir's) "enemies" list (that is how I
understood Random's point); muggle-borns, because they aren't
pure-blood; and who knows who else for who knows what reason.

In any case I think that Filch can be worried because he feels
targeted due to a number of factors, e.g. all the students (including
the heir) hate him, AND he is a squib who is at risk of being "pruned"
by pureblood purists if they get their way, AND he is generally
paranoid.  

Kemper again: 
> I think it is more reasonable for Mr. Filch to have heard of the
Chamber of Secrets and what had happened 50 years earlier to a
Muggleborn witch in the girl's bathroom.

Not to mention he lived through VoldyWar I and surely knows what it
means to squib for pureblood ideology to be on the loose. 

Elisabet




From stacygalore at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 19:34:09 2007
From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:34:09 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <71179.90699.qm@web90408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbpknh+h2f1@eGroups.com>


> >> Kemper wrote earlier: 
(snip) 
>  >> It's not his lineage that Mr. Filch cares about, it's his inability 
>  to perform magic which makes him like a Muggle, an enemy of the Heir.
 
> > Potioncat wrote:
(snip)
> > DH, chapter 1. We have LV ranting at the very idea of Wizarding kind 
>  marryin Muggles. Yet, at LV's right hand sits an offspring of just  
>  such a union. 
 
> > I have no doubt that LV would not deal kindly with Eileen Snape,  
>  should he have reason to come in contact with her, yet he accepts her 
>  son. So I would think a child of a Squib/Wizarding union would be 
>  accepted.
 
> Kemper now, loading can(n)on from PS/SS:
(snip)
> 'All-Muggle' seems to be a euphemism for 'Squib'.  And that's being said by sweet 
Neville.  
> If Neville were brought up in the Malfoy household, would they think Neville was 'all-
Muggle' or 'all-Mudblood'?   
(snip)
> Guant, who later glorifies his lineage (Generations of purebloods, wizards all), compares 
his pureblood daughter to a 'filthy Muggle' as well as to a 'dirty Squib'.  
> 
> The status of Muggle and Squib are equal for those who care about blood lineage.
(snip)

Stacy back again:

So for the purpose of my fic, I feel a bit conflicted about this because it would require a 
large alteration to the storyline.  A future Death Eater, while at Hogwarts, would probably 
hide the fact that she has a squib in her ancestry if wanting to impress somebody like 
Draco Malfoy.  Furthermore, she would hide the fact that somebody in her family practices 
"complimentary medicine" (wizard healing with a bit of muggle medicine, like the healer 
who put stitches in Arthur Weasley).  To a Death Eater, this type of healer would be a 
blood traitor, right? 





From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 19:55:29 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Lambert)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <fbpknh+h2f1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <371213.92939.qm@web52701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


stacygalore <stacygalore at yahoo.com> wrote:          Stacy back again:

So for the purpose of my fic, I feel a bit conflicted about this because it would require a large alteration to the storyline. A future Death Eater, while at Hogwarts, would probably hide the fact that she has a squib in her ancestry if wanting to impress somebody like Draco Malfoy. Furthermore, she would hide the fact that somebody in her family practices "complimentary medicine" (wizard healing with a bit of muggle medicine, like the healer 
who put stitches in Arthur Weasley). To a Death Eater, this type of healer would be a blood traitor, right? 
  ***Katie:
  Unquestionably. Since even Molly is appalled that Arthur allowed someone to put stitches in his body, and she's certainly no DE or pureblood crazy person...I would think that a future DE would be sickened by the idea of any sort of Muggle anything, especially something that affected a wizard's body. 
  Katie 



                         

       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep  6 21:51:56 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:51:56 -0000
Subject: On phonetics, phonology, and homophones.
In-Reply-To: <46DF72F6.4070803@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fbpsps+utho@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
>  >There has been a supposedly funny version of the
>  > books in circulation, involving the adventures of "Hairy Potter
>  > and the
." but this is definitely NOT a homophone of Harry
>  > in UK English.
> 
> Random832:
> Gah - this is the point that irritates me the most about this thread, 
> regardless of if you're talking about thickness, serious, or hairy - you 
> don't need a homophone to have a pun!

Geoff:
No, you've missed the point, possibly because you aren't familiar with 
this type of UK humour.

The whole point of the 'Hairy Potter and the....." parody is that it ISN'T 
a homophone. It's near enough for readers to recognise the similariity 
in pronunciation and sound but different enough for them to realise that 
it is not meant seriously.

To give a different example of this type of humour, there was a fashion 
at one time to send humorous Christmas cards showing a mouse 
wearing a Santa outfit and holding a glass of wine. The greeting on the 
inside page was "Merry Chris Mouse". 

Get it? :-)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep  6 21:54:49 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:54:49 -0000
Subject: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <46DF7889.7030108@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fbpsv9+mjqa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:

> The issue is _different_ with sirius/serious - in that case, it's just 
> that sirius has a sound pair that occurs in virtually no other words (I 
> challenge anyone to find another listed "short i"-"r" pair), 

Geoff:
Miriam?





From jnferr at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 22:59:08 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:59:08 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
In-Reply-To: <fbpsv9+mjqa@eGroups.com>
References: <46DF7889.7030108@fastmail.us> <fbpsv9+mjqa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709061559x6ee46a6fhc07d899beb81104a@mail.gmail.com>

>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:
>
> > The issue is _different_ with sirius/serious - in that case, it's just
> > that sirius has a sound pair that occurs in virtually no other words (I
> > challenge anyone to find another listed "short i"-"r" pair),
>
> Geoff:
> Miriam?


montims
and pyramid, though it's spelt differently...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bhobbs36 at verizon.net  Thu Sep  6 23:04:16 2007
From: bhobbs36 at verizon.net (Belinda)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:04:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.
References: <46DF7889.7030108@fastmail.us> <fbpsv9+mjqa@eGroups.com>
 <8ee758b40709061559x6ee46a6fhc07d899beb81104a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401c7f0da$4099b360$020a0a0a@ronaldruss1clq>

and irritate
irritating
irritated
irritation


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Janette 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 6:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.


  >
  > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:
  >
  > > The issue is _different_ with sirius/serious - in that case, it's just
  > > that sirius has a sound pair that occurs in virtually no other words (I
  > > challenge anyone to find another listed "short i"-"r" pair),
  >
  > Geoff:
  > Miriam?

  montims
  and pyramid, though it's spelt differently...

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 01:37:43 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:37:43 -0000
Subject: On phonetics, phonology, and homophones.
In-Reply-To: <46DF72F6.4070803@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fbqa17+i6rt@eGroups.com>


> 
> Carol:
>  > The actors don't, however, seem to agree on the pronunciation of
"Cruciatus Curse." Neville pronounces "Cruciatus" as I do (krew shee A
tus, with an accented short "a"
> 
> Random832:
> Is it a short "a" as in "cat", or as in "father"? (assuming these
two are different)

Carol:
Short "a" as in "cat," as I'm sure I said somewhere in my post. I
wouldn't call the "ah" sound in "father" a short "a" (more like a
short "o," but I'm one of those people who don't make a cot/caught
distinction and can only distinguish between the accented vowel of
"father" and the vowel in "fox" by placing my hand on my throat and/or
looking at my mouth in the mirror. There must be a difference, but I
quite literally don't *hear* it). 

Anyway, I don't think that the boy playing Neville uses "ah" for the
"a" in Cruciatus. I think it's a short "a" as in "cat" (unless I'm
misremembering. So I don't think that Latin (which I took in high
school) has anything to do with his pronunciation, but I could be
mistaken.

The same with Rickman's pronunciation of "veritaserum," which,
according to *my* Latin teacher, would start with a "w" sound for the
"v." The "a" would be more of an "ah" rather than the schwa that
Rickman makes it (IIRC). It sounds upperclass British to me, but what
do I know?

Carol, who loathes IPA and dropped phonetics halfway through the semester




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 02:00:47 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:00:47 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <333293.93881.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbqbcf+6el5@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote:
> But the phase suggests more than one, 'enemies', and there are not
two or more Mr. Filches.  Unless you are saying that it is Mr. Filch
and Mrs. Norris who are the 'enemies'... which honestly, doesn't sound
very reasonable even for Filch.  Plus, the cat was already taken out,
so the phrase would have to change to 'enemy' of the heir.
> 
> I think it is more reasonable for Mr. Filch to have heard of the
Chamber of Secrets and what had happened 50 years earlier to a
Muggleborn witch in the girl's bathroom.

Carol responds:
I think that canon supports this interpretation since Memory!Tom
himself says that Ginny "set the Serpent of Slytherin on four
Mudbloods and the Squib's cat: (SS Am. ed. 310). So Filch, who, as
Kemper has already pointed out, is upset that Harry has seen his
Kwikspell catalogue and thinks that Harry is the Heir of Slytherin,
thinks that he's an "enemy of the Heir" not because all the students
hate him but specifically because he's nonmagical and, in the eyes of
Slytherin's heir, an inferior being. Filch is lucky that his cat
rather than he himself was the first victim.

Carol, who thinks that "Enemies of the Heir" primarily means
Muggle-borns but would include Squibs as having no rightful place
within Hogwarts in Slytherin's view (or his heir's)




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 03:06:00 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:06:00 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <001401c7f0da$4099b360$020a0a0a@ronaldruss1clq>
Message-ID: <fbqf6o+7u66@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Belinda" <bhobbs36 at ...> wrote:
>
> and irritate
> irritating
> irritated
> irritation

Goddlefrood:

Irrigate, iridium, etc.

Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on 
earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.

I've wondered this for the past 16 years and seek enlightenment.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Sep  7 03:04:55 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:04:55 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <71179.90699.qm@web90408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbqf4n+6b3p@eGroups.com>

Kemper:  
> 
> The status of Muggle and Squib are equal for those who care about 
blood lineage.
> 
> Did I sink your battleship, Potioncat? :)


Potioncat:
No, because again, we have Snape who is friend to the Malfoys and who 
is honored (on occasion) by the Dark Lord. Bellatrix doesn't care for 
him, but I'm not sure if any of that has to do with his Blood status. 

Granted, Squib and Muggle seem to have equal status among those who 
discriminate against non-Magic persons. Of course, we don't see any 
Muggles working for DD. But I don't think it would be unthinkable for 
someone to speak of their connections to the magical family of 
__________ even if the connection was a Squib. Might not mention that 
detail, if it could be avoided.

Cannot get to my DH for canon, but Muriel speaks of families who 
arrange to have their Squib children educated in Muggle schools so they 
can move in the Muggle world. That's not a cold rejection of the child. 
I wonder what actually happened to Marius Black and who blasted his 
name off the family tree? 

Neville's description of his self as "almost all Muggle" makes me 
wonder if JKR just hadn't decided on Squib at that point, or if Alice 
was Mugggle-born.








From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 03:07:59 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:07:59 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbqf6o+7u66@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbqfaf+k4vb@eGroups.com>

> Goddlefrood:
> Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on 
> earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.

Goddlefrood:

Any Americans should also feel free to answer :-)




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Fri Sep  7 03:38:49 2007
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:38:49 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbqfaf+k4vb@eGroups.com>
References: <fbqf6o+7u66@eGroups.com> <fbqfaf+k4vb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0709062038q4821af12x49642e0678b4afeb@mail.gmail.com>

> > Goddlefrood:
> > Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on
> > earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.
>
> Goddlefrood:
>
> Any Americans should also feel free to answer :-)


The silent h, from someone whose first language wasn't English and
whose parents spoke French as their second language, wasn't unusual to
me.  What I want to know is why Herb, the name, doesn't have a silent
h.  Why the difference?  Do you know how confusing that is for a child
learning American English after she was first taught British English?

Anyway, as far as I can remember, the original pronunciation of herb,
being originally a French (Anglo-French according to Merriam-Webster?)
word, is actually sans h.  The English, in this case, added the h
letter when speaking and modified the original sound...somewhere in
the 19th Century, me thinks.

~Ali



From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 05:47:03 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:47:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <565178.6191.qm@web90401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> Kemper earlier:  

 > 

 > The status of Muggle and Squib are equal for those who care about 

 blood lineage.

 > 

 > Did I sink your battleship, Potioncat? :)

 

 Potioncat:

 No, because again, we have Snape who is friend to the Malfoys and who 

 is honored (on occasion) by the Dark Lord. Bellatrix doesn't care for 

 him, but I'm not sure if any of that has to do with his Blood status. 

 

Kemper now:
Maybe he's a friend of the Malfoys because he's lauded (on occasion) by the Dark Lord.
Bellatrix doesn't care for him, true, and its not because of his Blood status.  In fact, she seems to think him Pureblood.  From  HBP:
"[Snape] lives here?" asked Bella in a voice of contempt. "/Here/? In this Muggle dunghill?  He must be the first of our kind to set foot--"

It is reasonable that Bellatrix along with the Malfoys are unaware of Snape's Blood status.  Is there canon support that the Malfoys know Snape's lineage?


Potioncat:
Cannot get to my DH for canon, but Muriel speaks of families who 

 arrange to have their Squib children educated in Muggle schools so they 

 can move in the Muggle world. That's not a cold rejection of the child. 

 I wonder what actually happened to Marius Black and who blasted his 

 name off the family tree? 

 

Kemper now:
I would question why wizarding families feel compelled to send their children away.  It may not be cold rejection, but it doesn't scream warm acceptance.  


Potioncat:
 Neville's description of his self as "almost all Muggle" makes me 

 wonder if JKR just hadn't decided on Squib at that point, or if Alice 

 was Mugggle-born.

 

 
Kemper now:
Are you saying that JKR wasn't sure what she thought Neville's blood status to be in the first book?





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's 
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222



From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 05:51:47 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <308935.38036.qm@web90411.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> Kemper earlier, loading can(n)on from PS/SS:

 (snip)

 > 'All-Muggle' seems to be a euphemism for 'Squib'.  And that's being said by sweet 

 Neville.  

 > If Neville were brought up in the Malfoy household, would they think Neville was 'all-

 Muggle' or 'all-Mudblood' ?   

 (snip)

 > Guant, who later glorifies his lineage (Generations of purebloods, wizards all), compares 

 his pureblood daughter to a 'filthy Muggle' as well as to a 'dirty Squib'.  

 > 

 > The status of Muggle and Squib are equal for those who care about blood lineage.

 (snip)

 

 Stacy:

 
So for the purpose of my fic, I feel a bit conflicted about this because it would require a 

 large alteration to the storyline.  A future Death Eater, while at Hogwarts, would probably 

 hide the fact that she has a squib in her ancestry if wanting to impress somebody like 

 Draco Malfoy.  
 

 
Kemper now:
Unless the Squib was a parent or maybe a grandparent, I don't think the future DE would need to hide her lineage.

fwiw,
Kemper




       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 06:12:11 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:12:11 -0000
Subject: On phonetics, phonology, and homophones.
In-Reply-To: <fbqa17+i6rt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbqq3r+h6ls@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > 
> > Carol:
> >  > The actors don't, however, seem to agree on the pronunciation of
> "Cruciatus Curse." Neville pronounces "Cruciatus" as I do (krew shee A
> tus, with an accented short "a"
> > 
> > Random832:
> > Is it a short "a" as in "cat", or as in "father"? (assuming these
> two are different)
> 
> Carol:
> Short "a" as in "cat," as I'm sure I said somewhere in my post. I
> wouldn't call the "ah" sound in "father" a short "a" (more like a
> short "o," but I'm one of those people who don't make a cot/caught
> distinction and can only distinguish between the accented vowel of
> "father" and the vowel in "fox" by placing my hand on my throat and/or
> looking at my mouth in the mirror. There must be a difference, but I
> quite literally don't *hear* it). 
> 
> Anyway, I don't think that the boy playing Neville uses "ah" for the
> "a" in Cruciatus. I think it's a short "a" as in "cat" (unless I'm
> misremembering. So I don't think that Latin (which I took in high
> school) has anything to do with his pronunciation, but I could be
> mistaken.

Geoff:
Actually he does. I've just checked the DVD and Matthew Lewis 
pronounces the word as "croo-shi-ah-tus".

Interestingly, i've always pronounced it as "croo-si-ah-tus". I think I 
mentally linked it to 'cruciform' and 'crucifix' when I first saw the word.


Carol: 
> The same with Rickman's pronunciation of "veritaserum," which,
> according to *my* Latin teacher, would start with a "w" sound for the
> "v." The "a" would be more of an "ah" rather than the schwa that
> Rickman makes it (IIRC). It sounds upperclass British to me, but what
> do I know?

Geoff:
That brings back memories. Traditionally, English schools have always taught v=w and 
c=k  and j=y in Latin as opposed to "church" Latin. So I always pronounced Julius Caesar's 
name as 'Yoolius' Kaiser'.

That let's another red herring loose in the pronunciation pond!





From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 10:25:29 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:25:29 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0709062038q4821af12x49642e0678b4afeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbr8up+96eg@eGroups.com>

> > > Goddlefrood:
> > > Anyway, what I'd like to know from our American friends is 
> > > why on earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.

> Ali:
> What I want to know is why Herb, the name, doesn't have a silent
> h.  Why the difference?  

Goddlefrood:

In the same vein, why call anyone Herb at all?

> Ali:
> Anyway, as far as I can remember, the original pronunciation 
> of herb, being originally a French (Anglo-French according to 
> Merriam-Webster?) word, is actually sans h. 

Goddlefrood:

The exact source, if you please. It wouldn't explain why the 
French spell it herbe, at least they do in France itself. They 
may pronounce it otherwise, however the spelling is as in English 
with an extra e.

Goddlefrood, off to have lunch amongst the herbs.





From donnawonna at att.net  Fri Sep  7 10:34:29 2007
From: donnawonna at att.net (Donna)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 06:34:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
References: <fbqfaf+k4vb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46E12935.000008.03220@LIFESAVER>

Donna:
Here in Dayton, Ohio, we pronounce "herb" as:
    erb (no "h")  - spice/seasoning
    Herb ("h") - male name, short for Herbert (spelling?)
Spelling is NOT my strong point :-(

> Goddlefrood:
> Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on 
> earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.

Goddlefrood:

Any Americans should also feel free to answer :-)


 
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Sep  7 12:22:18 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:22:18 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <565178.6191.qm@web90401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbrfpq+urjv@eGroups.com>

Kemper:
 
> It is reasonable that Bellatrix along with the Malfoys are unaware 
of Snape's Blood status.  Is there canon support that the Malfoys 
know Snape's lineage?

Potioncat:
I don't see how he could have hidden it. With all the interest in 
purity of blood, someone would have had to ask who the heck the 
Snapes were. 

I think at least some of the Slytherin types are willing to overlook 
ancestry if the witch or wizard in question has the right attitude 
and abilities. It seems most wizards have a Muggle or two in their 
background; some are more careful at hiding it.

 
> Kemper now:
> I would question why wizarding families feel compelled to send 
their children away.  It may not be cold rejection, but it doesn't 
scream warm acceptance.

Potioncat:
For the same reason Muggle families send their magical children away? 
If the norm is to send your 11-year old off to school, then it would 
make sense to send your little Squib to a Muggle school. Depending on 
the family, that child would be just as welcomed home as his siblings-
--or not. And it would be a very different experience depending on 
the family.   
> 
> 
> Potioncat earlier:
>  Neville's description of his self as "almost all Muggle" makes me  
>  wonder if JKR just hadn't decided on Squib at that point, or if 
Alice was Mugggle-born.

Potioncat now:
Oops. Late night. We have canon that Neville is Pureblood. It's been 
asked among ourselves before why Neville says "all Muggle" rather 
than Squib. Perhaps JKR hadn't made up the word yet.
 
> Kemper now:
Unless the Squib was a parent or maybe a grandparent, I don't think 
the future DE would need to hide her lineage.

Potioncat:
Agreed. Between us we've shown the extremes. So, again, I think 
Stacey could make the fic work whichever way she went with it.





From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 13:25:44 2007
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:25:44 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <46E12935.000008.03220@LIFESAVER>
Message-ID: <fbrjgo+601m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Donna" <donnawonna at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Donna:
> Here in Dayton, Ohio, we pronounce "herb" as:
>     erb (no "h")  - spice/seasoning
>     Herb ("h") - male name, short for Herbert (spelling?)
> Spelling is NOT my strong point :-(
> 
> > Goddlefrood:
> > Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why 
on 
> > earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.
> 
> Goddlefrood:
> 
> Any Americans should also feel free to answer :-)


I am American, raised by parents from Canada and New York while 
living in South Carolina from the age of 6.  My accent is slightly 
southern, but heavily influenced by my parents.  I make a concerted 
effort NOT to use the typical southern drawl and teach my children 
the same.  I pronounce herb and Herb the same as Donna.  

Now I have a question for our British friends:  I have heard the 
word "disoriented" spoken by different people while watching 
BBCAmerica and the pronounciation baffles me.  It is said 
disorienTATed.  The caps are not stress, but to point out the 
apparent addition of letters.  Why is that?  Or is the word spelled 
differently in British English?  Aluminum is another case in which I 
have heard British people add,in this case only one extra 
letter...aluminIum.  

Just things I have been curious about...no offense intended.

Cyndi




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 15:40:06 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:40:06 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbrjgo+601m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbrrcm+814v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "thekrenz" <thekrenz at ...> wrote:

> I am American, raised by parents from Canada and New York while 
> living in South Carolina from the age of 6.  My accent is slightly 
> southern, but heavily influenced by my parents.  I make a concerted 
> effort NOT to use the typical southern drawl and teach my children 
> the same.  I pronounce herb and Herb the same as Donna.  
> 
> Now I have a question for our British friends:  I have heard the 
> word "disoriented" spoken by different people while watching 
> BBCAmerica and the pronounciation baffles me.  It is said 
> disorienTATed.  The caps are not stress, but to point out the 
> apparent addition of letters.  Why is that?  Or is the word spelled 
> differently in British English?  Aluminum is another case in which I 
> have heard British people add,in this case only one extra 
> letter...aluminIum.  
> 
> Just things I have been curious about...no offense intended.
> 
> Cyndi

Geoff:

It's a variation in UK/US spelling....

>From my dictionary:

Disorient > verb. Chiefly N.Amer. another term for disorientate.

Aluminium...  (US Aluminum)......

It's you lot the other side of the pond again..... 
You're always wanting to be different. :-))





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep  7 18:33:01 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:33:01 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbqf6o+7u66@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbs5gt+3rb9@eGroups.com>


> Goddlefrood:
> 
> Irrigate, iridium, etc.
> 
> Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on 
> earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.
> 
> I've wondered this for the past 16 years and seek enlightenment.

Magpie:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's for the same reason we have 
a lot of the pronounciations we do--because that's the way all of us 
used to say it--we still use it, y'all don't. It came from the French 
and used to be pronounced with the dropped 'h' in the UK too. Then you 
guys played around and added the h after we were stranded over here 
with our "gottens" and "Fall." :-D  

-m (who heard a great, similar explanation for the different ways in 
which we use forks--and hopes it's true.)





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 19:08:16 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:08:16 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fbrjgo+601m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbs7j0+3u7l@eGroups.com>

---  "thekrenz" <thekrenz at ...> wrote:
>
> ...
> 
> Now I have a question for our British friends:  I 
> have heard the word "disoriented" spoken by 
> different people while watching BBCAmerica and the
> pronounciation baffles me.  ...  Aluminum is another
> case in which I have heard British people add,in this
> case only one extra letter...aluminIum.  
> 
> Just things I have been curious about...no offense
> intended.
> 
> Cyndi
>

bboyminn:

Oddly enough, they pronounce it differently because
they spell it differently.

Concise Oxford Dictionary -11th Ed. -
aluminIum - al-you-min-ee-um

American Heritage -
aluminum - al-loo-min-um

American Heritage show that 'erb' and 'herb' are both 
correct pronunciations. 
 
Dan and Jay Leno discussed this last night on the 
Tonight Show, when they were talking about the 
differences between American and British versions of
the books.

How about -

Jaguar

British - jag-you-are

American - jag-warr

Though Dan said some people try to sound pretensions by
saying 'hag-you-are'. 'J' sounding like 'H' (or 'y') 
as in Spanish.

As to 'Herb' or 'erb', being good little boys and girls
we do what our parents and teachers tell us, and they
tell us 'erb', so who are we to argue, even though I'm
sure we would all readily admit, it never made sense to
us.

...ain't life strange.

Steve/bboyminn




From kkersey at swbell.net  Fri Sep  7 20:56:11 2007
From: kkersey at swbell.net (kkersey_austin)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:56:11 -0000
Subject: Madeleine L'Engle
Message-ID: <fbsdtb+j4sh@eGroups.com>

Sad news - Madeleine L'Engle died yesterday. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/books/07cnd-lengle.html?hp



Elisabet




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 00:55:57 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:55:57 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbqf6o+7u66@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbsrut+341d@eGroups.com>

Goddlefrood wrote:
<snip> > what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on 
earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.
> 
> I've wondered this for the past 16 years and seek enlightenment.

Carol responds:
Because we were taught that it's silent, just like the "k" in "know"
and "knowledge." (I don't pronounce the "h" in "Herbology" for the
same reason.) I did a little online research and came up with a few
other silent "h" words: chiefly, "hour," "honor," "honest," and
"heir." (I *think* the same is true for all these words in British
English. You spell "honor" as "honour," but I think the pronunciation
is the same.)

Most of these "h" words, maybe all of them (I didn't check, sorry),
originally came from French, which, as Fleur will tell you, 'as no "h"
sound.

According to an online article I found about silent "h" in *British*
English, the pronounced "h" in "herb" is only a recent development:

http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/wordfrom/aitches/?view=uk

I'm guessing that Americans retained the older pronunciation of "herb"
as "erb," which was current when, say, my Pilgrim ancestor and/or my
Salem witch ancestor arrived in America. (BTW, we *do* pronounce the
"h" in the *name* "Herb" and in its longer form, "Herbert." And, of
course, we pronounce the "h" in "Harry.")

Carol, 'oping that Goddlefrood now feels enlightened :-)






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 01:07:38 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:07:38 -0000
Subject: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
In-Reply-To: <fbqf4n+6b3p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbsskq+duq1@eGroups.com>

Potioncat wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> Neville's description of his self as "almost all Muggle" makes me 
wonder if JKR just hadn't decided on Squib at that point, or if Alice
was Mugggle-born.
>
Carol:
I don't want to chime in yet on the Squib question except to say that,
IMO, a nonmagical parent, whether Squib or Muggle, would result in an
"impure" bloodline for his own descendants but not for the rest of the
family (say, his nieces and nephews). Fear of Squib children would
certainly cause pure-blood supremacists like the Malfoys to avoid
marrying a Squib, in any case.

But I do want to mention that Alice Longbottom can't be a Muggle-born
or Neville would be a Half-Blood like Harry, who has a Pure-blood
father but a Muggle-born mother and is every bit as much a Half-Blood
in the Malfoys' view as Snape, whose father was a Muggle.

Remember, Dumbledore says in OoP that Voldemort, in interpreting the
Prophecy, chose the Half-Blood, Harry, over the Pure-Blood, Neville,
as posing the greater threat to himself?

Carol, who wants to talk to Potioncat about Snape's death but knows
it's not appropriate for this thread




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 01:18:32 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:18:32 -0000
Subject: On phonetics, phonology, and homophones.
In-Reply-To: <fbqq3r+h6ls@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbst98+320c@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier: 
> > The same with Rickman's pronunciation of "veritaserum," which,
according to *my* Latin teacher, would start with a "w" sound for the
> "v." The "a" would be more of an "ah" rather than the schwa that
Rickman makes it (IIRC). It sounds upperclass British to me, but what
do I know?
> 
> Geoff:
> That brings back memories. Traditionally, English schools have
always taught v=w and c=k  and j=y in Latin as opposed to "church"
Latin. So I always pronounced Julius Caesar's name as 'Yoolius' Kaiser'.
> 
> That let's another red herring loose in the pronunciation pond!
>
Carol again:
Or a common bond, to change the metaphor, since that's exactly the
same school of Latin that I learned in Flagstaff, Arizona, except that
we pronounced the second "a" in "Caesar" like the "a" in "car" rather
than as a schwa. But "Ave" was "AH way," for example.

Carol, to whom church Latin sounds like Italian, but thinks it sounds
prettier than our version would in choral music




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 01:28:47 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:28:47 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbr8up+96eg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbstsf+f1v9@eGroups.com>

 Goddlefrood:
> 
> In the same vein, why call anyone Herb at all?

Carol:
Oh, there are worse names. :-) Rupert, for example. I could see an
American history buff naming a son Herbert (Herb for short) after
Herbert Hoover, the thirty-first President of the U.S. And, of course,
the Herberts were an influential family in English history.

Carol, who once embarrassed herself by saying out loud in a literature
class that George Herbert was a one-trick poet




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 01:40:52 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:40:52 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fbs7j0+3u7l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbsuj4+ghfs@eGroups.com>

bboyminn:
<snip>
> As to 'Herb' or 'erb', being good little boys and girls we do what
our parents and teachers tell us, and they tell us 'erb', so who are
we to argue, even though I'm sure we would all readily admit, it never
made sense to us.

Carol:
Exactly. "'Oo are we to hargue wif our parents?" as Mundungus might say.

Carol, who thinks that the link between spelling and pronunciation is
mostly wishful thinking on both sides of the Atlantic




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 02:09:57 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 02:09:57 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbrrcm+814v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbt09l+381k@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
> 
> It's a variation in UK/US spelling....
> 
> From my dictionary:
> 
> Disorient > verb. Chiefly N.Amer. another term for disorientate.
> 
> Aluminium...  (US Aluminum)......
> 
> It's you lot the other side of the pond again..... 
> You're always wanting to be different. :-))

Carol:

And from mine:

Main Entry: dis?ori?ent
Pronunciation: (")dis-'or-E-"ent
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: French d?sorienter, from d?s- dis- + orienter to orient
1 a : to cause to lose bearings : displace from normal position or
relationship b : to cause to lose the sense of time, place, or identity
2 : CONFUSE

Main Entry: dis?ori?en?tate
Pronunciation: -E-&n-"tAt, -E-"en-
Function: transitive verb
: DISORIENT
- dis?ori?en?ta?tion /(")dis-"or-E-&n-'tA-sh&n, -E-"en-/ noun

So "disorient" is the main entry and "disorientate" the alternate. 

American editors (unless we're trying to retain British diction and
grammar) generally consider "disorientate" unnecessarily long and
awkward and would change it to "disorient" under most circumstances.
It appears to be a back formation from "disorientation."

It's not as bad as, say, "irregardless," but I would still correct it
in an American manuscript, just as I would correct "preventative" to
"preventive." 

Attempts to keep the language graceful and rational are probably
doomed to failure, but we keep trying.

Carol, on hold for a conference call and typing one-handed





From jnferr at gmail.com  Sat Sep  8 02:41:12 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:41:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbsrut+341d@eGroups.com>
References: <fbqf6o+7u66@eGroups.com> <fbsrut+341d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709071941y48f20f3cl1130d6b79e4c15f@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Carol responds:
> I'm guessing that Americans retained the older pronunciation of "herb"
> as "erb," which was current when, say, my Pilgrim ancestor and/or my
> Salem witch ancestor arrived in America. (BTW, we *do* pronounce the
> "h" in the *name* "Herb" and in its longer form, "Herbert." And, of
> course, we pronounce the "h" in "Harry.")


montims:
OK - why is the th in Anthony pronounced "th", where Thomas is pronounced
"t"?  You can't imagine how strange it is for a Brit to hear Americans
talking about AnTHony Hopkins...  Oh yes, and Bernard is prounced berNARD,
where Leonard is pronounced LEnnud, and leopard as LEpud.  In England, a St
Bernard dog is BERnud...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 02:46:27 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Question about Pure Bloods and House of Slytherin
Message-ID: <22772.59869.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Kemper earlier:

  
> It is reasonable that Bellatrix along with the Malfoys are unaware 

 of Snape's Blood status.  Is there canon support that the Malfoys 

 know Snape's lineage?

 

 Potioncat:

 I don't see how he could have hidden it. With all the interest in 

 purity of blood, someone would have had to ask who the heck the 

 Snapes were. 

 

Kemper now:
Here's how I see it after the sorting:
Slytherin table with other first years:
Snape: "Yeah... dad wanted me to go to Durmstrang, but mum wanted me at Hogwarts."

Snape's a crafty, cunning boy.  Dumbledore was wrong; the hat picked accurately.  This line implies both parents are magical.  It's beautiful in its simplicity.

Kemper





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/



From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 03:05:14 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:05:14 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709071941y48f20f3cl1130d6b79e4c15f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbt3ha+5spn@eGroups.com>

> montims:
> OK - why is the th in Anthony pronounced "th", where Thomas is
pronounced
> "t"?  You can't imagine how strange it is for a Brit to hear Americans
> talking about AnTHony Hopkins...  Oh yes, and Bernard is prounced
berNARD,
> where Leonard is pronounced LEnnud, and leopard as LEpud.  In
England, a St
> Bernard dog is BERnud...

Carol:
Dunno, but you forgot that we pronounce our "r's." So it's LEHN nerd
and LEH perd, at least here in Arizona.

Carol, whose last name (obtained from her ex-husband) also begins with
"Th" pronounced "t" and was once told that it was a Pennsylvania Dutch
name




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep  8 03:26:36 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:26:36 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbt3ha+5spn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbt4pc+dlhc@eGroups.com>

> > montims:
> > OK - why is the th in Anthony pronounced "th", where Thomas is
> pronounced
> > "t"?  You can't imagine how strange it is for a Brit to hear 
Americans
> > talking about AnTHony Hopkins...  Oh yes, and Bernard is prounced
> berNARD,
> > where Leonard is pronounced LEnnud, and leopard as LEpud.  In
> England, a St
> > Bernard dog is BERnud...
> 
> Carol:
> Dunno, but you forgot that we pronounce our "r's." So it's LEHN nerd
> and LEH perd, at least here in Arizona.
> 
> Carol, whose last name (obtained from her ex-husband) also begins 
with
> "Th" pronounced "t" and was once told that it was a Pennsylvania 
Dutch
> name

Magpie:
As an aside, I once saw an English actor talking about doing an 
American accent and they said the hardest word for them to pronounce 
was: murderer. Just far too many of those American R's I guess. (But 
it is easier to do Chaucer's Middle English with the US accent I 
learned in a class where I was the only one--shouldn't be surprised.)

-m (trying to think of what word would be most difficult to pronounce 
going US to UK accent...some versions of "no" are pretty hard.)




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 03:54:59 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:54:59 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbsrut+341d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbt6ej+lfk3@eGroups.com>

> Goddlefrood earlier:
> > <snip> what I'd like to know from our American friends is why 
> > on earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.
 
> > I've wondered this for the past 16 years and seek enlightenment.
> 
> Carol responds:
<SNIP>
> Most of these "h" words, maybe all of them (I didn't check, 
> sorry), originally came from French, which, as Fleur will tell 
> you, 'as no "h" sound.

Goddlefrood:

All the words in which the h is not pronounced did come from via 
French from Latin, according to the article linked. 

This all started when I was in Australia 16 years ago and had been 
lured to a training session for a company called Herbal Life. The 
owner of said company was an American who had made the training 
film himself. As soon as I heard the pronunciation of herb by this 
man I left the confines of the theatre.

My ears have cooled since that time and now I have, regretfully, 
become accustomed to the dropped h, while stil pronouncing it 
myself. 

Thanks for your response and the responses of others, I feel a 
good deal better now, let me assure you. :-)

> Carol:
 
> http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/wordfrom/aitches/?view=uk

Goddlefrood:

Well worth a look by anyone interested.

> Carol:

> I'm guessing that Americans retained the older pronunciation 
> of "herb" as "erb," which was current when, say, my Pilgrim 
> ancestor and/or my Salem witch ancestor arrived in America. 

Goddlefrood:

No doubt. The original colonists apparently retained an accent that 
is not all that far removed from the accent of the time in the Black 
Country (midlands-ish) of England. Or was that the Australians :-?

> Carol, 'oping that Goddlefrood now feels enlightened :-)

Goddlefrood:

I do and also point out that despite my recent lack of contributions 
to main I do still read the posts. Therefore, you might care to know 
that the eqivalent of "my two cents" would be a small two penn'orth.

Just a small two penn'orth.




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 13:31:59 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 06:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
Message-ID: <85594.33619.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> montims: 

 > OK - why is the th in Anthony pronounced "th", where Thomas is pronounced 

 "t"?  You can't imagine how strange it is for a Brit to hear Americans 

 talking about AnTHony Hopkins...  Oh yes, and Bernard is prounced berNARD, 

 where Leonard is pronounced LEnnud, and leopard as LEpud.  In England, a St 

 Bernard dog is BERnud... 

  

Kemper now:

How is 'leotard' pronounced?



Curiously Kemper







       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/



From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep  8 14:52:37 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 14:52:37 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <85594.33619.qm@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fbucvl+v1q0@eGroups.com>

> > montims: 
> 
>  > OK - why is the th in Anthony pronounced "th", where Thomas is 
pronounced 
> 
>  "t"?  You can't imagine how strange it is for a Brit to hear 
Americans 
> 
>  talking about AnTHony Hopkins...  Oh yes, and Bernard is prounced 
berNARD, 
> 
>  where Leonard is pronounced LEnnud, and leopard as LEpud.  In 
England, a St 
> 
>  Bernard dog is BERnud... 
> 
>   
> 
> Kemper now:
> 
> How is 'leotard' pronounced?

Magpie:
ber-NARD
LEN-nerd
LEP-erd
LEE-uh-tard

With Anthony, while it did first surprise me to hear An-tony with 
no "th" and then realize that was just standard appreciation, it also 
makes me think of the way it was pronounced by many kids in my high 
school, which was basically: ANT-n-nee. (Heavy on the nasal for 
that "A" in the first syllable. That's the closest way I could think 
to write it.)

I was also recently talking to somebody about the name Sebastian and 
how she didn't like the US pronounciation. I thought it was the same 
pronounciation, but in the US we generally don't pronounces "t's" in 
the middle of words and if we do pronounce the T as an actual T, we 
then can't open our mouth again for the rest of the word.

So instead of Seb-AS-ti-en it's pronounced Seb-AST-ch'n

-m




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  8 20:03:30 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:03:30 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbucvl+v1q0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbuv6i+nspp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:

> > Kemper now:
> > 
> > How is 'leotard' pronounced?
> 
> Magpie:
> ber-NARD
> LEN-nerd
> LEP-erd
> LEE-uh-tard

Geoff:
In my Brit experience, I pronounce it:

lee-oh-tard - the 'o' longer than Magpie's I think. And, for me, it would be Bern -ed.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  8 20:20:41 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:20:41 -0000
Subject: Squibs / Pronunciations of lots of words
Message-ID: <fbv06p+n0si@eGroups.com>

Stacey wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33033>:

<< I am trying to write a fic and was wondering about something. Can
the offspring and descendants of a squib be considered pure blood, if
all said descendants are indeed wizards/witches? >>

I think the descendents of a pureblood witch/wizard and a Squib from a
pureblood family would claim to be purebloods, if necessary by
claiming that the Squib was really a witch or wizard. First claim that
the census records are wrong, then pay someone to destroy or alter them.

 <<  Is it possible for a squib to have wizard/witch offspring? >>

It should be easier for Squibs to have wizarding children than for
Muggles to do so. I consider that Squibs are homozygous for the
recessive yes-Magic gene (that controls whether or not a person  has
magic, while many other genes influence how strong various aspects of
the magic are) but don't express the magic due to some kind of birth
defect. So the offspring of two Squibs should be as likely to be magic
as the offspring of a witch and wizard, and the offspring of a Squib
and a Muggle as likely to be magic as any Half-blood. 

I also have a theory that wizarding people only marry Muggles who are
heterozygous for the yes-Magic gene because the ones who are
homozygous no-magic just "smell" wrong. So the statistical change of a
half-and-half child to have magic would be 50%. I think this is
increased by other factors, such as I think almost all children born
to witches have magic for much the same reason that Rh- mothers
usually miscarry Rh+ fetusses.

Tonks wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33069>:

<< I am with Steve... where I live Harry is Hairy and Sirius is
Serious... all the same here. Midwest. >>

Midwesterners pronounce 'Harry' like 'Sirius'?

Montims wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33072>:

<< "irritate"? Pyramus? (the lover of Thisbe in Midsummer Night's
Dream) Also Sirius rhymes with Bilius (with the "o as riental" l/r
confusion) - Ron's middle name.  >>

I don't think Bilius starts with same vowel as Sirius or irritate.
Fleur's pronunciation, Beel, starts with the same vowel as Sirius and
irritate. And heal and heel and seal -- 'Seal-ius'? 

I think Bilius starts with the same vowel as silly and jealous and
gelatin and Melissa. Now I am mumbling to myself about sir and cirrus
and cygnet ... mermaid and meerkat ... 

I think 'irritate' starts with 'ear'. The same sound as 'Pyramus'
starts with peer/pier, and 'Sirius' and 'serious' start with
sear/seer. (Seer like Trelawney pronounced like sear,not like
sightsee-er). I've only seen 'sere' in writing so I don't know whether
it's pronounced the same as seer/sear (my guess) or like 'share' with
s instead of sh. 

Geoff wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33082>:

<< Miriam? >>

Miriam is also pronounced like 'ear'. And 'mere' as in 'a mere
scratch'. And 'mere' a dark scary isolated lake. 

Someone used the nomme d'Yahoo 'Mirzam Black'. That's a star in the
same constellation, but one I have never heard spoken. I thought I
assumed it was pronounced like Miriam with z instead of the second i,
but just now writing this post, I noticed I'm now pronouncing Mirzam
like Sir zam and mermaid.

montims wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33083>:

<< and pyramid  >>

I must confess that I thought you'd written 'pyramid' in your previous
post that I replied to, above. Since I pronounce the first syllable of
Pyramid and Pyramus the same (and Cyrano has the same vowel), I didn't
have to change my reply except the one word 'Pyramus'.

Goddlefrood wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33087>:

<< Irrigate, iridium >>

More vowels like Sirius.

<< Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on
earth do you not pronounce the h in herb. >>

Mew.

I didn't know until now that the British pronunciation was different. 

I started most words by pronouncing them by the sight of their written
form, so it never occurred to me that 'erb' was the correct
pronunciation until parents corrected me; I still pronounce the H
unless I am remembering to be careful with my pronunciation. I
pronounce the H in Herbology and herbiage (is that a word?) without a
second thought.

It has occured to that Spanish (Mexican Spanish anyway) for 'herb'
might be 'yerba' because spearmint is Yerba Buena, and I've read
representations of some rural British dialects saying 'yarb'.

Goddlefrood wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33112>:

<< you might care to know that the eqivalent of "my two cents" would
be a small two penn'orth. Just a small two penn'orth. >>

My recollection of happy old days on the mail list is that different
people (presumably from different parts of Britain) had different
sign-offs:

Just my 2p worth
just my tuppence worth
just my two-penn'orth

Maybe others that I don't recall. I have trouble imagining that the
phrase two cents worth originated before America split from Britain
(wasn't tuppence a day's wage for a common laborer then?). 

Otherwise, in which country did it start and then spread to the other?
And what did it mean? I don't know how to research my theory that it
started as price of a postage stamp, referring to someone writing a
letter to say their tuppence worth, because in-person, by letter, or
publishing printed matter, were the only means to have one's say.





From juli17 at aol.com  Sat Sep  8 23:27:44 2007
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:27:44 EDT
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
Message-ID: <d27.12349151.341489f0@aol.com>

 
Steve wrote:


How  about -

Jaguar

British - jag-you-are

American -  jag-warr

Though Dan said some people try to sound pretensions  by
saying 'hag-you-are'. 'J' sounding like 'H' (or 'y') 
as in  Spanish.





Julie:
I don't mind any of the above pronunciations. It's when people pronounce  the
word "jag-wire" that I go up the wall! 
 
Julie (apologizing if "jag-wire" is actually an accepted pronunciation  
somewhere
rather than merely atrocious articulation)



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 06:09:23 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 06:09:23 -0000
Subject: Squibs / Pronunciations of lots of words
In-Reply-To: <fbv06p+n0si@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc02mj+ieh0@eGroups.com>

> Goddlefrood wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33112>:
> 
> << you might care to know that the eqivalent of "my two cents" 
> would be a small two penn'orth. Just a small two penn'orth. >>

> Catlady:

> My recollection of happy old days on the mail list is that 
> different people (presumably from different parts of Britain) 
> had different sign-offs:

> Just my 2p worth
> just my tuppence worth
> just my two-penn'orth

Goddlefrood:

I did a quick search of main and it seems the latter was used by 
self, but no other poster, a total of 6 times in slightly differing 
variants. The other two usages would also be valid. It depends 
where in the benighted isles one is from. The first one is the 
decimalised format, for what it's worth.

> Catlady:
 
> Otherwise, in which country did it start and then spread to the 
> other? And what did it mean? I don't know how to research my 
> theory that it started as price of a postage stamp, referring 
> to someone writing a letter to say their tuppence worth, because 
> in-person, by letter, or publishing printed matter, were the only 
> means to have one's say.

Goddlefrood:

It had never previously occurred to me why this phrase came about. 
However, I did a quick google search and came up nothing at all.

It does seem that it merely relates to something of no real value, 
whether it has anything to do with the postal service is possible, 
although letters were always sent by size rather than length. A 
single sheet of paper, whether covered in writing or containing 
only a few words, would cost the same to send.

It's an interesting idea though.

Goddlefrood, saying le-oh-tard and bern-ud.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  9 06:40:31 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 06:40:31 -0000
Subject: Squibs / Pronunciations of lots of words
In-Reply-To: <fc02mj+ieh0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc04gv+qipq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:
 
> > Catlady:
> 
> > My recollection of happy old days on the mail list is that 
> > different people (presumably from different parts of Britain) 
> > had different sign-offs:
> 
> > Just my 2p worth
> > just my tuppence worth
> > just my two-penn'orth
> 
> Goddlefrood:
> 
> I did a quick search of main and it seems the latter was used by 
> self, but no other poster, a total of 6 times in slightly differing 
> variants. The other two usages would also be valid. It depends 
> where in the benighted isles one is from. The first one is the 
> decimalised format, for what it's worth.


> > Catlady:
>  
> > Otherwise, in which country did it start and then spread to the 
> > other? And what did it mean? I don't know how to research my 
> > theory that it started as price of a postage stamp, referring 
> > to someone writing a letter to say their tuppence worth, because 
> > in-person, by letter, or publishing printed matter, were the only 
> > means to have one's say.

Geoff:
It's case of the spelling we use.....

I've checked my personal archive of everything I've posted since I joined 
the group in July 2003 and I've used the word "twopennyworth" a total 
of 12 times during that period.

On this question of different spellings and pronunciation, 'herb' and 
'aluminium' came up a few days ago. By chance, I was browsing at 
www.danradcliffe.com last night and watched a few video clips, which 
I don't do very often.

In a very recent interview with Jay Leno on "TheTonight Show", Dan was 
actually asked inter alia about 'herb' and 'aluminium' and 'Jaguar'. I 
wondered whether that is where the impetus to raise them on this 
group came from...




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  9 06:50:26 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 06:50:26 -0000
Subject: Squibs / Pronunciations of lots of words
In-Reply-To: <fbv06p+n0si@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc053i+jv3c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> 
wrote:

> Montims wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33072>:
> 
> << "irritate"? Pyramus? (the lover of Thisbe in Midsummer Night's
> Dream) Also Sirius rhymes with Bilius (with the "o as riental" l/r
> confusion) - Ron's middle name.  >>
> 
> I don't think Bilius starts with same vowel as Sirius or irritate.
> Fleur's pronunciation, Beel, starts with the same vowel as Sirius and
> irritate. And heal and heel and seal -- 'Seal-ius'? 
> 
> I think Bilius starts with the same vowel as silly and jealous and
> gelatin and Melissa. Now I am mumbling to myself about sir and cirrus
> and cygnet ... mermaid and meerkat ... 
> 
> I think 'irritate' starts with 'ear'. The same sound as 'Pyramus'
> starts with peer/pier, and 'Sirius' and 'serious' start with
> sear/seer. (Seer like Trelawney pronounced like sear,not like
> sightsee-er). I've only seen 'sere' in writing so I don't know whether
> it's pronounced the same as seer/sear (my guess) or like 'share' with
> s instead of sh. 

Geoff:
This is another case of differing regional pronunciations. To me, for 
irritate/silly/jealous/gelatin/Melissa. I need two vowel sounds, silly 
and irritate forming the smaller gruop.

I would match the vowel sounds for silly and Bilius, because I expect 
Ron's name to rhyme with the real word 'bilious' - which is why, to my 
ears at least, it seems the last name to give to anyone!

Just in passing, I was watching a video clip of Dan Radcliffe being 
interviewed in the US last night. I didn't note the name of the female 
presenter but, underlining the same point, she certainly appeared 
to say "Hairy Potter".




From random832 at fastmail.us  Sun Sep  9 08:03:16 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:03:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <d27.12349151.341489f0@aol.com>
References: <d27.12349151.341489f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46E3A8C4.9060103@fastmail.us>

> Julie:
> I don't mind any of the above pronunciations. It's when people pronounce  the
> word "jag-wire" that I go up the wall! 
>  
> Julie (apologizing if "jag-wire" is actually an accepted pronunciation  
> somewhere
> rather than merely atrocious articulation)

Pure speculation follows -
I suspect it's not merely poor enunciation, but arises from an 
unfortunate interaction of dialects - since some dialects pronounce the 
long "i" itself as a simple "ah", it's not clear what words have which 
sound - the distinction between the two cannot be heard. One can see the 
same phenomenon with 'h' and 'r' in some british dialects, whereas the 
sound in question is often dropped, it will sometimes be inserted where 
it doesn't belong with no apparent reason.



From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 08:48:03 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 08:48:03 -0000
Subject: Pronunciations of lots of words
In-Reply-To: <fc04gv+qipq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc0c03+es3k@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> In a very recent interview with Jay Leno on "TheTonight Show", 
> Dan was actually asked inter alia about 'herb' and 'aluminium' 
> and 'Jaguar'. I wondered whether that is where the impetus to 
> raise them on this group came from...

Goddlefrood:

As I raised herb I can assure you this is simply coincidence.

Any similarity to the discussions of two people I never watch, 
excepting in the film version of the HP books in Dan's case, is 
just a bizarre concatenation of circumstances.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  9 14:37:12 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:37:12 -0000
Subject: Pronunciations of lots of words
In-Reply-To: <fc0c03+es3k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc10eo+mqrt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > In a very recent interview with Jay Leno on "TheTonight Show", 
> > Dan was actually asked inter alia about 'herb' and 'aluminium' 
> > and 'Jaguar'. I wondered whether that is where the impetus to 
> > raise them on this group came from...
> 
> Goddlefrood:
> 
> As I raised herb I can assure you this is simply coincidence.
> 
> Any similarity to the discussions of two people I never watch, 
> excepting in the film version of the HP books in Dan's case, is 
> just a bizarre concatenation of circumstances.

Geoff:
That was a lovely end to your last sentence but I feel that "a 
confusing and coincidental concatentation of circumstances" 
might have had an even grander ring to it. :-)





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  9 15:45:33 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 9 Sep 2007 15:45:33 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/9/2007, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1189352733.10.56100.m56@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 9, 2007
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
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From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  9 17:40:46 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 9 Sep 2007 17:40:46 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/9/2007, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1189359646.11.48163.m52@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 9, 2007
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2007 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

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From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 05:38:37 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 22:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fbieeu+ngvq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <733208.6316.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

    My stepchildren are being raised using proper grammar, and, if I hear too much of a "twang" I quash it immediatly. My husband (whom I love with all my heart, he is a wonderful husband and father) has a strong Texas accent, and rather hideous grammar.  He is too old (39!) and set in his ways to "fix". But the children are little girls (7 and 4), and I want to give them the best chance in life. He is fine with everything that I do as long as " they don't sound like Yankees"!  How funny is that? I was raised in West Texas and I refuse to sound like a hick. And, yes, I say "oy-il ", also. Fortunatly, I had family in Illinois and spent every  summer with them as a child and teenager. I now have rather a mixed accent.
      I truly don't understand embracing a pattern of speech that automaticly brands you as unintelligent! Right or wrong, that is what people think of the Southern accent. Well, not the accent itself, but it is usually associated with terrible grammar, therefore, people think "hick", "white trailer trash", "Jerry Springer rejects", etc... 
      It is sad when people perpetuate the stereotype.
   
  Alex Hogan
   
   
   
  
Paige <medicpaige at yahoo.com> wrote:
          I am also a Texan, and I loath the 'southern' method of speaking. I
say 'oil' and I have to put out there that if you are going to visit
Dallas, Austin, Houston, San Antonio or any other major city in Texas,
you will be unlikely to encounter anyone who speaks in this manner. We
do say 'y'all' quite a bit in familiar settings, but thats about it.
If you travel to the small towns, only then will you find that more
than half of the population use 'All' for 'oil' and so on. 

Paige


                         

       
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting  gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From miamibarb at comcast.net  Mon Sep 10 10:59:00 2007
From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara Roberts)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 06:59:00 -0400
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
Message-ID: <e35fdb08b0c73c5bb101ee0b7685e032@comcast.net>

  >I am also a Texan, and I loath the 'southern' method of speaking.

Not sure that I would equate " Texan" and "Southern" speech.  I always 
thought that certain  accents from the deep South to be refined.  Ever 
hear someone from Vicksburg, Miss?  It's quite different from a Texas 
Drawl.

Barbara Roberts
           		


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Sep 10 11:56:15 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:56:15 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <733208.6316.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc3bcv+h36k@eGroups.com>

Alex wrote:
 He is fine with everything that I do as long as " they don't sound 
like Yankees"!  How funny is that? I was raised in West Texas and I 
refuse to sound like a hick.

Potioncat:
You aren't a born Southerner are you?  ;-)  To a Southerner, the 
Yankee accent sounds harsh and even rude. 

Although, as Barbara pointed out in another post, there are many 
different Southern accents and I think the refined Southern accent is 
lovely. I can't stand the twangy one. Although I'm sure I must have 
spoken it myself at one time. (So I do agree with teaching children 
to speak more properly.)


Alex:
>       I truly don't understand embracing a pattern of speech that 
automaticly brands you as unintelligent! Right or wrong, that is what 
people think of the Southern accent. Well, not the accent itself, but 
it is usually associated with terrible grammar, therefore, people 
think "hick", "white trailer trash", "Jerry Springer rejects", etc... 
>       It is sad when people perpetuate the stereotype.

Potioncat:
So, is it wrong to hold to the accent or wrong to judge it? I think 
many people, whatever their regional dialect/accent cling to it out 
of pride. Just as many people in the US speak a different language at 
home. 


My husband is from NJ and I am from SC. Both of us have relatives who 
have very strong regional accents. I once heard one of my children 
say "yoose guys" and "ya'll" in the same conversation.

But of course, I would never!

Ya'll come back now. Heah?








 
    





From maritajan at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 12:56:42 2007
From: maritajan at yahoo.com (MJ)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:56:42 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <733208.6316.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc3eub+m3ci@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alex Hogan <predigirl1 at ...> 
wrote:
>
>     My stepchildren are being raised using proper grammar, and, if 
I hear too much of a "twang" I quash it immediatly. My husband (whom 
I love with all my heart, he is a wonderful husband and father) has a 
strong Texas accent, and rather hideous grammar.  He is too old (39!) 
and set in his ways to "fix". But the children are little girls (7 
and 4), and I want to give them the best chance in life. He is fine 
with everything that I do as long as " they don't sound like 
Yankees"!  How funny is that? I was raised in West Texas and I refuse 
to sound like a hick. And, yes, I say "oy-il ", also. Fortunatly, I 
had family in Illinois and spent every  summer with them as a child 
and teenager. I now have rather a mixed accent.
>       I truly don't understand embracing a pattern of speech that 
automaticly brands you as unintelligent! Right or wrong, that is what 
people think of the Southern accent. Well, not the accent itself, but 
it is usually associated with terrible grammar, therefore, people 
think "hick", "white trailer trash", "Jerry Springer rejects", etc... 
>       It is sad when people perpetuate the stereotype.
>    
>   Alex Hogan
>    
    

What is the point of this entire post, but perpetuating the 
stereotype?

As a 7th generation Kentuckian, now living in Tenneseee, I'm offended 
at even the suggestion that my drawl "brands me as unintelligent."  
Frankly, if someone is going to judge my intelligence or social worth 
(i.e., whether or not I'm a 'hick, white trailer trash or Jerry 
Springer reject') based on how I pronounce my vowels, that reflects 
more on their character than it does on mine.

As a southerner, I'm proud of my heritage.  I'm proud of my family 
history.  I love the way I talk, and the soft sound of the way I 
pronounce my words.  

And if that brands me as "unintelligent," so be it.  Frankly, I have 
more questions about the intelligence of the person who so brands me 
based on regional speech patterns.


MJ







From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 21:11:27 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:11:27 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <e35fdb08b0c73c5bb101ee0b7685e032@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <fc4btv+ki1s@eGroups.com>

---  Barbara Roberts <miamibarb at ...> wrote:
>
> >I am also a Texan, and I loath the 'southern' 
> >method of speaking.

> 
> Not sure that I would equate " Texan" and "Southern"
> speech.  I always thought that certain  accents from
> the deep South to be refined.  Ever hear someone from
> Vicksburg, Miss?  It's quite different from a Texas 
> Drawl.
> 
> Barbara Roberts

bboyminn:

Regional accents are a fascinating thing. Barbara is
right, a common deep southern twang is nothing like
a Texas drawl. I would say there are probably six
different distinctly 'southern' accents, some 'high'
and some 'low'. A high refined southern accent can
actually sound quite charming. On the other hand,
low southern common can be like listening to finger-
nails on a blackboard.

Further, it is not just accent but grammar, figures of
speech, and idioms. I've always been baffled by the
apparent need of some people to cultivate the dumb
country boy sound like it was the pinnacle of 
achievement; as if being an ignorant moron was a 
desirable thing. 

I also saw this in school. If you were in anyway 
considered smart or refined, you were practically
an outcast in grammar, junior, and high school. How
did we allow ourselves to reach such depth?

I think you will find many accent variations where 
every you go. In California, a valley boy doesn't 
sound anything like an Orange County boy. And a San
Diego boy doesn't sound like a typical LA boy. 

There are probably three or four distinct New England
accents. A Vermont or Maine farmer doesn't sound 
anything like a Boston businessman.

In the midwest, I think we have the most neutral
accents. The accents we do have tend not to be regional,
but more a reflection heritage. For example, while I am
college educated and moderately well read, on occasion
my Scandinavian heritage creeps in and I say 'ya'
instead of 'yeh' or yes. So, in the midwest, if 
there is an accent, it is probably a hint of 
Scandinavian, German, or Russian.

If you've seen the movie 'Fargo' then you have a 
hint of a Midwest accent, which originates from
Scandinavia. 

However, lacking a ancestral accent, the Midwest 
accent is considered the most neutral, and it most
desired in TV newsreaders. I think officially it
is an Iowa 'sound', but really anyone from the
Midwest that doesn't have a heritage accent would
be perfect. For the record, I do find some areas
of southern California that have a very neutral
accent.

I believe there is even a standard accent that is
preferred for British TV newsreaders, though I
don't know what it is called. 

I can understand regional accents in a country like
the USA that is very large and also a melting pot
of many cultures. But the Brits live all trapped
on one or two small islands, it seems odd that
so many regional and very distinct accents could 
evolve there. I would venture to say that even 
London has a range of distinct accents. 

Don't mind me, I'm just rambling.

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 21:27:54 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:27:54 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fc3eub+m3ci@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc4csq+hj15@eGroups.com>

---  "MJ" <maritajan at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  Alex Hogan <predigirl1@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > My stepchildren are being raised using proper 
> > grammar, and, if I hear too much of a "twang" I 
> > quash it immediatly. ... 
> > 
> > I truly don't understand embracing a pattern of 
> > speech that automaticly brands you as unintelligent!
> > ... Well, not the accent itself, but it is usually 
> > associated with terrible grammar, therefore, people 
> > think "hick", "white trailer trash", "Jerry Springer 
> > rejects", etc... 
> >  ...
> >    
> >   Alex Hogan
> >    
>     
> 
> What is the point of this entire post, but 
> perpetuating the stereotype?
> 
> As a 7th generation Kentuckian, now living in 
> Tenneseee, I'm offended at even the suggestion that 
> my drawl "brands me as unintelligent."  
> ...
> 
> As a southerner, I'm proud of my heritage. ...
> 
> And if that brands me as "unintelligent," so be 
> it....
> 
> 
> MJ
>

bboyminn:

I don't want to speak for Alex, but perhaps you missed
this little qualifier to Alex's statement -

"Well, not the accent itself, but it is usually 
associated with terrible grammar, therefore, people 
think "hick" ..."

This in not unique to the south, but I think fairly
the southern accent does accentuate both the sound
and the concept. That is, a hick bad grammar 'Jerry
Springer reject' from the Midwest sounds less 
annoying than a hick bad grammar 'Jerry Springer
reject' from the deep south.

I don't think anyone is denying that a refined
southern accent can sound...well...refined. But
without a doubt, a dead common southern accent
and associated grammar sounds...well...really really
dead common. 

Again, this isn't unique to the south, just more
noticable. Take Britain as an example, a Posh 
upper class British accent sounds refined to anyone
who hears it, but a dead common 'common' sound 
annoying to anyone who hears it. 

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn




From random832 at fastmail.us  Tue Sep 11 00:12:36 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:12:36 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation -
 All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fc4btv+ki1s@eGroups.com>
References: <fc4btv+ki1s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46E5DD74.4040609@fastmail.us>

> Steve/bboyminn:
> In the midwest, I think we have the most neutral
> accents. The accents we do have tend not to be regional,
> but more a reflection heritage. For example, while I am
> college educated and moderately well read, on occasion
> my Scandinavian heritage creeps in and I say 'ya'
> instead of 'yeh' or yes. So, in the midwest, if 
> there is an accent, it is probably a hint of 
> Scandinavian, German, or Russian.
> 
> If you've seen the movie 'Fargo' then you have a 
> hint of a Midwest accent, which originates from
> Scandinavia. 

Random832:
Well, that's actually called a north-central (or, more commonly, 
Minnesota) accent, and is distinct from a Midwestern one (precisely due 
to the sometimes quite heavy Scandinavian influence)

> Steve/bboyminn:
>  However, lacking a ancestral accent, the Midwest
> accent is considered the most neutral,  and it most
> desired in TV newsreaders. I think officially it
> is an Iowa 'sound',

Random832:
Iowa, eastern Nebraska, western Illinois.

> Steve/bboyminn:
> I can understand regional accents in a country like
> the USA that is very large and also a melting pot
> of many cultures. But the Brits live all trapped
> on one or two small islands, it seems odd that
> so many regional and very distinct accents could 
> evolve there. I would venture to say that even 
> London has a range of distinct accents. 

Random832:
Britain has had a lot more _time_ to develop multiple accents - 
America's only been colonized by english-speakers at all for the last 
400 years, and the vast majority, particularly early on, came from just 
a few parts of England, and the existence of trains put an end to the 
forces that would cause accents to become more diverse




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 02:13:41 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 02:13:41 -0000
Subject: Leotards and leopards (Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbuv6i+nspp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc4tkl+9imt@eGroups.com>

Kemper now:
> > > 
> > > How is 'leotard' pronounced?
> > 
> > Magpie:
<snip>
> > LEP-erd
> > LEE-uh-tard
> 
> Geoff:
> In my Brit experience, I pronounce it:
> 
> lee-oh-tard - the 'o' longer than Magpie's I think. <snip>

Carol:
I'm American, but it's LEE oh tard for me, too, though the long "o" is
only lightly accented. At any rate, "leotard" and "leopard" are sight
rhymes, but they don't rhyme when they're spoken. But I'm guessing
that "leopard" ("leo" meaning lion and "pard" meaning leopard) was
once pronounced as LEE oh pard).

Carol, for whom "leopard" rhymes with "shepherd" and "leotard" doesn't
rhyme with anything




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 02:22:42 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 02:22:42 -0000
Subject: Squibs / Pronunciations of lots of words
In-Reply-To: <fbv06p+n0si@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc4u5i+ibdq@eGroups.com>

Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:
<snip>
> 
> I think Bilius starts with the same vowel as silly and jealous and
gelatin and Melissa. <snip>

Carol:

"Jillous" and "jillatin" and "Milissa"? Or is "silly" "selly" in your
pronunciation?

Reminds me of Potioncat and her ballpoint "pin." <Gren. Erm, grin>

I'm not trying to be sneppy, erm, snippy, just noting that for me, a
short "i" and a short "e" are distinct sounds. 

I agree, though, that Bilius doesn't rhyme with Sirius not only
because of the "l" and "r" but because the "r" alters the short "i"
and moves it closer to the sound of a long "e."

Carol, glad that spelling is more standardized than pronunciation or
no one could communicate




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 11 02:35:38 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 02:35:38 -0000
Subject: Leotards and leopards (Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fc4tkl+9imt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc4utq+4cou@eGroups.com>


> Kemper now:
> > > > 
> > > > How is 'leotard' pronounced?
> > > 
> > > Magpie:
> <snip>
> > > LEP-erd
> > > LEE-uh-tard
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > In my Brit experience, I pronounce it:
> > 
> > lee-oh-tard - the 'o' longer than Magpie's I think. <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> I'm American, but it's LEE oh tard for me, too, though the long "o" 
is
> only lightly accented. At any rate, "leotard" and "leopard" are 
sight
> rhymes, but they don't rhyme when they're spoken. But I'm guessing
> that "leopard" ("leo" meaning lion and "pard" meaning leopard) was
> once pronounced as LEE oh pard).
> 
> Carol, for whom "leopard" rhymes with "shepherd" and "leotard" 
doesn't
> rhyme with anything


I actually almost wrote it as LEE-oh-tard and then I said it to 
myself over and over and went with the 'uh.' So LEE-oh-tard sounds 
right to me too.

-m






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 02:37:29 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 02:37:29 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <d27.12349151.341489f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fc4v19+oeif@eGroups.com>

Julie:
> I don't mind any of the above pronunciations. It's when people
pronounce  the word "jag-wire" that I go up the wall! 
>  
> Julie (apologizing if "jag-wire" is actually an accepted
pronunciation somewhere rather than merely atrocious articulation)

Carol:

Ah, a new direction for this thread! Some of the many
mispronunciations that grate on my nerves are "nucular" for "nuclear,"
"often" with the "t" pronounced (an affectation, IMO), and "sell" for
"sale."

I don't think any of the three except "sell" is a regional variation.
The other two are just mispronunciations that are, regrettably, common
enough to be included in dictionaries, which, these days, are
increasingly "descriptive" rather than "prescriptive."

Carol, who misses the "olden days" of her childhood when correctness
was considered a virtue






From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 03:01:46 2007
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:01:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Leotards and leopards (Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fc4utq+4cou@eGroups.com>
References: <fc4tkl+9imt@eGroups.com> <fc4utq+4cou@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0709102001l35ee8450o9e72d3ae072bc5a3@mail.gmail.com>

>  I actually almost wrote it as LEE-oh-tard and then I said it to
>  myself over and over and went with the 'uh.' So LEE-oh-tard sounds
>  right to me too.
>
>  -m

Hm. I also say LEI-oh-tard about half the time. Am I pronouncing it
wrong? I'd love to know, but as Carol has already mentioned,
dictionary are rarely helpful these days.

All this discussion makes me think of Chinese.  If you think regional
variations on English is big, you ought to try discerning the
different Chinese dialects and accents, all with similar, if not the
exact, same writing! Of course, the reason for this is somewhat
different from the way English developed, but that's a whole 'nother
kettle 'o fish. :)

~Ali



From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 04:27:20 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:27:20 -0000
Subject: Leotards and leopards (Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0709102001l35ee8450o9e72d3ae072bc5a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc55f8+ek95@eGroups.com>

> > Magpie:
> > I actually almost wrote it as LEE-oh-tard and then I said it 
> > to myself over and over and went with the 'uh.' So LEE-oh-tard 
> > sounds right to me too.

> Ali:
> Hm. I also say LEI-oh-tard about half the time. 

Goddlefrood:

You're not Hawaiian, are you?

> Ali:
> All this discussion makes me think of Chinese. If you think 
> regional variations on English is big, you ought to try 
> discerning the different Chinese dialects and accents, all 
> with similar, if not the exact, same writing! 

Goddlefrood:

Take Fiji (you're welcome to it). Here there are only about 
half a million indigenous people from a total population of 
close to nine hundred thousand. They have somewhere approaching 
330 distinct dialects, some more like completely different 
languages. Happily there is one lingua franca, that being 
the dialect of one particular region. Your average Fijian 
would speak both his own language, this dialect and English.

I won't even begin to get into cameleopards for now.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 04:53:18 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:53:18 -0000
Subject: Herb (Was Re: Harry and Hairy - The Difference.)
In-Reply-To: <fbqfaf+k4vb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc56vu+s29p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> 
wrote:
>
> > Goddlefrood:
> > Anyway, what I'd like to know from our Amewrican friends is why on 
> > earth do you not pronounce the h in herb.
> 
> Goddlefrood:
> 
> Any Americans should also feel free to answer :-)
>

Tonks:
I just do it because everyone else does it. ;-) I always wondered why 
herb isn't pronouced with the h too. 

As to Herb.. there is also Herbie when Herb is a kid. Had a neighbor 
with that name once and his mother called him Herbie as an adult. 
Rather simple minded fella... old Herbie.

Tonks_op





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep 11 06:39:19 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:39:19 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc4v19+oeif@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Julie:
> > I don't mind any of the above pronunciations. It's when people
> pronounce  the word "jag-wire" that I go up the wall! 
> >  
> > Julie (apologizing if "jag-wire" is actually an accepted
> pronunciation somewhere rather than merely atrocious articulation)
> 
> Carol:
> 
> Ah, a new direction for this thread! Some of the many
> mispronunciations that grate on my nerves are "nucular" for "nuclear,"
> "often" with the "t" pronounced (an affectation, IMO), and "sell" for
> "sale."

Geoff:
I'm not quite sure which pronunciation for 'nuclear' you mean...

The one which I don't like is 'noo-clear' which may be the one you 
are highlighting. As a Brit (gosh, are you? - what a surprise!) I say 
'new-clear'.

With 'often', many people do say 'offen' but I think I include the 't' 
but very lightly stressed.




From jnferr at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 11:42:40 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:42:40 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc4v19+oeif@eGroups.com>
References: <d27.12349151.341489f0@aol.com> <fc4v19+oeif@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709110442h14bbf067scadfffd66f1f9126@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Carol:
>
> Ah, a new direction for this thread! Some of the many
> mispronunciations that grate on my nerves are "nucular" for "nuclear,"
> "often" with the "t" pronounced (an affectation, IMO), and "sell" for
> "sale."
>
> I don't think any of the three except "sell" is a regional variation.
> The other two are just mispronunciations that are, regrettably, common
> enough to be included in dictionaries, which, these days, are
> increasingly "descriptive" rather than "prescriptive."
>
> Carol, who misses the "olden days" of her childhood when correctness
> was considered a virtue


montims:
and taking it wildly off topic, I hate with a passion the word "wellness"
that has sprung up evverywhere.  "Health" is a perfectly good word -
"wellness" is an abomination!  IMO of course...

Oh yes, and the hip abbreviations - dubvee for volksvagen, wamu for
Washington Mutual, soco for Southern Comfort, etc etc.  I grind my teeth so
badly these days if I watch television...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From random832 at fastmail.us  Tue Sep 11 11:59:39 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:59:39 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com>
References: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46E6832B.2060008@fastmail.us>

> Geoff:
> I'm not quite sure which pronunciation for 'nuclear' you mean...
> 
> The one which I don't like is 'noo-clear' which may be the one you 
> are highlighting.

No. There is a pronunciation, which is used by many americans (it's not 
a GWB invention, contrary to popular belief - for one thing, every 
president since Carter has pronounced it this way) that goes "nu-kyeh-luhr"



From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 19:20:43 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:20:43 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com>

---"Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Carol" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> > 
> > Carol:
> > 
> > Ah, a new direction for this thread! Some of the 
> > many mispronunciations that grate on my nerves are
> > "nucular" for "nuclear," "often" with the "t" 
> > pronounced (an affectation, IMO), and "sell" for
> > "sale."
> 
> Geoff:
> I'm not quite sure which pronunciation for 'nuclear'
> you mean...
> 
> The one which I don't like is 'noo-clear' which may be
> the one you  are highlighting. ... I say 
> 'new-clear'.
> 

bboyminn:

Geoff, regarding Random832's response, in case you 
didn't already know, GWB is George W. Bush our 'esteemed'
President, who clearly says 'nucular'. But then...he's
from Texas.

One that I find absolutely unnerving is liberry for
library. How did anyone even come up with that? I
could see it if you were 5 years old, but by the
time you are 8 years, you should have outgrown it. 

Another thing that chafes my shorts it the creation
of fake words to try and either make yourself sound
more intelligent, or to obscure a point. These words
typically are normal words with '-ize', '-isation',
'-ate', or other equally pointless suffixes added.

Just ranting.

Steve/bboyminn







From jnferr at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 01:14:33 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:14:33 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com>
References: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com> <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>

>
> bboyminn:
>
> One that I find absolutely unnerving is liberry for
> library. How did anyone even come up with that? I
> could see it if you were 5 years old, but by the
> time you are 8 years, you should have outgrown it.
>
> Another thing that chafes my shorts it the creation
> of fake words to try and either make yourself sound
> more intelligent, or to obscure a point. These words
> typically are normal words with '-ize', '-isation',
> '-ate', or other equally pointless suffixes added.
>
> Just ranting.


montims:
while we're ranting...
How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in America?  At
first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling error, like the
greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it pronounced as lounge in tv
programmes and furniture commercials.  It doesn't even make sense that
way...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From random832 at fastmail.us  Wed Sep 12 02:01:42 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:01:42 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com> <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com> <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46E74886.8070604@fastmail.us>

> montims:
> while we're ranting...
> How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in America?  At
> first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling error, like the
> greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it pronounced as lounge in tv
> programmes and furniture commercials.  It doesn't even make sense that
> way...


Spelling error + Never heard of it + Folk etymology.

Or even Never heard of it + Folk etymology + "that can't be right" 
(nucular is often said to be derived from a pseudo-etymology of "new 
killer")



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 12 06:36:24 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 06:36:24 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <46E74886.8070604@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fc81d8+k0bg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:
>
> > montims:
> > while we're ranting...
> > How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in America?  At
> > first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling error, like the
> > greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it pronounced as lounge in tv
> > programmes and furniture commercials.  It doesn't even make sense that
> > way...
> 
> 
> Spelling error + Never heard of it + Folk etymology.
> 
> Or even Never heard of it + Folk etymology + "that can't be right" 
> (nucular is often said to be derived from a pseudo-etymology of "new 
> killer")

Geoff:
That explains why I met "lounge" in an item by a US writer recently and 
wondered whether it was a printer's error.

Personally, I am quite happy with a plain "settee"!




From marti.lewis at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 08:40:43 2007
From: marti.lewis at gmail.com (Marti L.)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:40:43 -0000
Subject: Pronunciation of Sirius
Message-ID: <fc88mb+k1ss@eGroups.com>


Hi everyone.  I just joined this group yesterday and saw some notes
about Sirius and that it should have a short "i" sound after the first
letter S.  Someone here was going to watch HP Prisoner movie again to
check.

I was listening to Stephen Fry on the British audiobook (HPHBP #6) on
the way home from work last night, and he says it just the way we say
"serious" -- long e sound for both of the i's, as in C (cee), seek,
sleet, see.  It came up in an Chapter 4 when Harry meets Horace Slughorn
and HS brings up the fact that Sirius is dead.

I'm American (northeast) and had never heard of the short "i"
pronunciation, but when I read the posts here, I figured it was from one
of the English accents.  Now that I've heard Stephen Fry say Sirius with
the long ee sound, I don't think it is.

Marti





From marti.lewis at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 08:51:07 2007
From: marti.lewis at gmail.com (Marti L.)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:51:07 -0000
Subject: chaise longue and nuclear (new-kew-lar as our you-know-who says it)
In-Reply-To: <46E74886.8070604@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fc899r+lr0c@eGroups.com>

> > montims:
> > while we're ranting...
> > How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in 
> > America?

> > At first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling 
> > error, like the greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it 
> > pronounced as lounge in tv programmes and furniture commercials. 
> > It doesn't even make sense that way...


Chaise longue is French for long chair.   See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaise_longue
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaise_longue>

where it says that chaise lounge is used in the furniture business 
and it's in dictionaries.  Americans think of their long beach chairs 
as lounge chairs. This usage doesn't bother me.

However, GWB's "new-kew-lar" makes my skin crawl. Say it once, 
OK, but don't keep making the same error over and over again, 
Mr. President. A few presidents have said it that way, but it 
was a slip and they didn't consistently make the same mistake. 
Why make an easy-to-pronounce word difficult with such a manner 
of speaking?

Marti



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 12 16:47:51 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:47:51 -0000
Subject: Pronunciation of Sirius
In-Reply-To: <fc88mb+k1ss@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc957n+kv52@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marti L." <marti.lewis at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hi everyone.  I just joined this group yesterday and saw some notes
> about Sirius and that it should have a short "i" sound after the first
> letter S.  Someone here was going to watch HP Prisoner movie again to
> check.
> 
> I was listening to Stephen Fry on the British audiobook (HPHBP #6) on
> the way home from work last night, and he says it just the way we say
> "serious" -- long e sound for both of the i's, as in C (cee), seek,
> sleet, see.  It came up in an Chapter 4 when Harry meets Horace Slughorn
> and HS brings up the fact that Sirius is dead.
> 
> I'm American (northeast) and had never heard of the short "i"
> pronunciation, but when I read the posts here, I figured it was from one
> of the English accents.  Now that I've heard Stephen Fry say Sirius with
> the long ee sound, I don't think it is.

Geoff:
I think I was the member concerned with the POA check and I think that 
Daniel Radcliffe certainly uses a short 'i' - like I do.

Stephen Fry, bless him, speaks with what is usually called an 'Oxford' 
accent, i.e. a posh accent. ;-) You also need to remember that there is 
a wide range of English accents anyway. I've been told that I use an 
'educated' South-east accent whatever that may mean!




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 12 16:50:48 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:50:48 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] chaise longue and nuclear (new-kew-lar as our
 you-know-who says it)
In-Reply-To: <fc899r+lr0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c7f55d$1258c680$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Marty]:
| However, GWB's "new-kew-lar" makes my skin crawl. Say it once, 
| OK, but don't keep making the same error over and over again, 
| Mr. President. A few presidents have said it that way, but it 
| was a slip and they didn't consistently make the same mistake. 
| Why make an easy-to-pronounce word difficult with such a manner 
| of sp

[Lee]:
Ah--but that's the key, isn't it..."Easy to pronounce."  For some folk, I
think, the "CL" in the middle of a word is not necessarily something that
trips off the end of the tongue, not as easily as a "cul". soe "nuclear" is
something that the tongue has to learn because "nucular" comes out so
easily.  And it's not just our President who's done it...I've heard news
anchors do it a lot from time to time, especially if the word comes up
repeatedly.

I haven't been really reading this thread, so some of these may have popped
up:
"Lie-berry" for Library
"Febuary" for February (in fact, my speech synthesizer says "Febuary")
"Amboo-lance" for Ambulance (which most easterners, at least, pronounce with
a long U "Am-BU-Lance."
"Ruff" for Roof (with long U sound)
"Spaycial" for Special
And don't forget the "on-velope" "en-velope" thing.

...I could probably think of more if I had all day, which I don't.  It's
lovely out and beggs me to take a walk. :-)  And so I shall as I hate to
waste pretty days. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From jnferr at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 17:13:44 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:13:44 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] chaise longue and nuclear (new-kew-lar as our you-know-who says it)
In-Reply-To: <000c01c7f55d$1258c680$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
References: <fc899r+lr0c@eGroups.com> <000c01c7f55d$1258c680$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709121013m283326d1n2ecb2575dc1499c1@mail.gmail.com>

>
> [Lee]:
> Ah--but that's the key, isn't it..."Easy to pronounce."  For some folk, I
> think, the "CL" in the middle of a word is not necessarily something that
> trips off the end of the tongue, not as easily as a "cul". soe "nuclear"
> is
> something that the tongue has to learn because "nucular" comes out so
> easily.  And it's not just our President who's done it...I've heard news
> anchors do it a lot from time to time, especially if the word comes up
> repeatedly.


montims:
and of course the big one that used to irritate me a lot on the radio and tv
news in England - good old Laura Norder...  She was usually in trouble, and
needed propping up...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ladymela99 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 19:00:54 2007
From: ladymela99 at yahoo.com (Melanie)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:00:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Pronunciation of Sirius
In-Reply-To: <fc957n+kv52@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <709377.94692.qm@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

<<Geroff wrote:
I think I was the member concerned with the POA check and I think that 
Daniel Radcliffe certainly uses a short 'i' - like I do.

Stephen Fry, bless him, speaks with what is usually called an 'Oxford' 
accent, i.e. a posh accent. ;-) You also need to remember that there is 
a wide range of English accents anyway. I've been told that I use an 
'educated' South-east accent whatever that may mean!>>
   
  Melanie:
   
  I think it is actually pronounced Sir-ee-us.  The reason I say that is because in the chapter "The other Minister" the prime minister discusses a "Serious" Black.  My thought is that because of the different spelling that he must mispronounce the name.  He heard "Serious" when it was in actuality "Sir--ee-us.  But I must admit being from the midwest when I see the name I still say "serious."

  ~Melanie

   

       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 19:19:47 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Katie)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:19:47 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Theme Park
Message-ID: <fc9e4j+i1fe@eGroups.com>

I haven't seen much discussion of this. I am so psyched about it! I 
wasn't sure at first how I felt, but as the idea grew on me, I 
realized there was nothing more I wanted in the world than to walk 
down Diagon Alley, to walk into Honeyduke's or get a butterbeer at the 
Hog's Head...to buy robes at Madame Malkin's or stare with starry eyes 
at the latest brooms floating in the shop window. I want to get money 
at Gringotts (I hope I can change my "Muggle money" for knuts and 
galleons!), I want to just completely submerge myself in Potterverse. 
I might never come home...

I am almost so excited it's paralyzing... : )

So, what do you guys think about it?

What is the thing you most want to do there, if you want to go there 
at all?

What is the thing you hope they don't screw up, above all other things?

Katie




From stacygalore at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 03:03:59 2007
From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:03:59 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Theme Park
In-Reply-To: <fc9e4j+i1fe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fca9av+nd46@eGroups.com>

"Katie"  wrote:
>
> I haven't seen much discussion of this. I am so psyched about it! I 
> wasn't sure at first how I felt, but as the idea grew on me, I 
> realized there was nothing more I wanted in the world than to walk 
> down Diagon Alley, to walk into Honeyduke's or get a butterbeer at the 
> Hog's Head...to buy robes at Madame Malkin's or stare with starry eyes 
> at the latest brooms floating in the shop window. I want to get money 
> at Gringotts (I hope I can change my "Muggle money" for knuts and 
> galleons!), I want to just completely submerge myself in Potterverse. 
> I might never come home...
> 
> I am almost so excited it's paralyzing... : )
> 
> So, what do you guys think about it?
> 
> What is the thing you most want to do there, if you want to go there 
> at all?
> 
> What is the thing you hope they don't screw up, above all other things?

Stacy here:

I am a HUGE fan of Disney theme parks.  I am asuming, since many new theme parks are 
modeled after Disney World, that it would be somewhat like that: total emersion into the 
theme, as opposed to the Six Flags parks, which are all about the rides.  I don't think any 
theme park can do justice to the HP universe.  It would come off as cheesy.  Probably just 
a ploy to get people to buy poor quality merchandise.

Of course, I would visit this theme park in a heartbeat, but I would be very sceptical the 
entire time I was there, nit picking at the details.  

IMO, no theme park can be as good as the potterverse I visit in my head every time I read 
the books.

But anyway, here's what I would do in the hypothetical HP theme park:
I would have a drink of butter beer (which I have always imagined to taste like a slightly 
alcoholic cream soda), ride a Nimbus 2000, take a cheesy picture with Harry in front of the 
Hogwarts castle, get spooked out by dementors and death eaters, and buy Slytherin robes 
for Halloween.

Have you heard where it will be built?  Somewhere in the UK probably?




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Sep 13 03:29:29 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:29:29 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Theme Park
In-Reply-To: <fca9av+nd46@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcaaqp+h8e5@eGroups.com>


> 
> Stacy here:

> 
> Have you heard where it will be built?  Somewhere in the UK 
probably?


Potioncat:
Hold on to your Mouse-ears....Orlando. Actually, Universal Studios-
Orlando. I think it will be part of Island of Adventure. 

I will be there in 2008 when it opens. You'll know me because the 
teenager with me will have a grin from ear to ear and I'll be having 
a meltdown. I loathe amusement parks. 

When I first finished DH, the thought of a Harry Potter Theme Park 
made me ill. Later I saw JKR's interview and I realised that to her, 
the Potterverse is alive and well and carrying-on. So, I can start to 
appreciate the magic of it.

I hope to Merlin that Professor Dumbledore and Professor Snape won't 
be wandering around the park, posing for photos.





From random832 at fastmail.us  Thu Sep 13 04:01:31 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:01:31 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Pronunciation of Sirius
In-Reply-To: <fc88mb+k1ss@eGroups.com>
References: <fc88mb+k1ss@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46E8B61B.2020803@fastmail.us>

Marti L. wrote:
> I'm American (northeast) and had never heard of the short "i"
> pronunciation, but when I read the posts here, I figured it was from one
> of the English accents.  Now that I've heard Stephen Fry say Sirius with
> the long ee sound, I don't think it is.

Well, as is often the case with these things, it's not quite so simple. 
I earlier asserted that this was just a case of an unfamiliar word, 
rather than a phonic merge - I've since learned that is untrue. And, the 
thing about merged phonemes in particular is - if you don't make the 
distinction, 90%, you can't _hear_ the difference either, even from 
those who do.



From random832 at fastmail.us  Thu Sep 13 04:09:42 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:09:42 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] chaise longue and nuclear (new-kew-lar as our
 you-know-who says it)
In-Reply-To: <fc899r+lr0c@eGroups.com>
References: <fc899r+lr0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46E8B806.8080902@fastmail.us>

Marti L. wrote:
> However, GWB's "new-kew-lar" makes my skin crawl. Say it once, 
> OK, but don't keep making the same error over and over again, 
> Mr. President. A few presidents have said it that way, but it 
> was a slip and they didn't consistently make the same mistake. 

Actually, I think this is recall bias. Bush is the only one who gets 
attention for it, since he's the only president who's gotten significant 
attention, media play, etc, for his various actual malapropisms. But 
it's actually a common dialect variation. This kind of variation 
actually happens all the time - "Iron" used to be pronounced as it's 
spelled, and "ask" used to be pronounced "aks" (and is trending that way 
again in some dialects). Many people think nothing of of pronouncing 
"comfortable" as "comftorble", or "introduce" as "interduce" - I 
pronounce those last two that way, and so does everyone else I know. 
Long ago, "bird" was pronounced (and, spelled, such that spelling 
existed at the time) as "bryd". I don't like Bush, and he is an idiot, 
but this is simply NOT an example of his idiocy.

> Why make an easy-to-pronounce word difficult with such a manner 
> of speaking?



From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Sep 13 05:25:14 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:25:14 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
Message-ID: <fcahjq+nmhp@eGroups.com>

Carole wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33134>:

<< "Jillous" and "jillatin" and "Milissa"? Or is "silly" "selly" in
your pronunciation? Reminds me of Potioncat and her ballpoint "pin."
<Gren. Erm, grin> I'm not trying to be sneppy, erm, snippy, just
noting that for me, a short "i" and a short "e" are distinct sounds. >>

I can tell pin from pen, grin from gren, and snip from snep. But not
silly from selly or jilly from jelly or bilious from belious. Having
thought about it, I realised this is personal rather than a dialect,
because my late mother used to get on my case about it all the time,
insisting that I pronounce some words differently except her
demonstration of how to say them sounded exactly like the way I
already said them ...

Continuing on the subject of people frustrating me: I am certain that
when I say 'thin', the TH sounds a little bit like an F and when I say
'think', the TH sounds a little bit like an S. I could say words
starting with TH all day and all the 'unvoiced' (is that right?) ones
would sound like one of those two examples. My in-person friends are
driving me mad by insisting that they can't hear any difference in my
two different THs.

Steve bboyminn wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33143>:

<< One that I find absolutely unnerving is liberry for
library. How did anyone even come up with that? >>

It's just a missing R, so what's the big deal? R must be very slippery
because it falls out of words and sneaks into words and moves around
inside words. Modred, Moderd, Morded.

Marti wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33148>:

<< However, GWB's "new-kew-lar" makes my skin crawl. Say it once,
OK, but don't keep making the same error over and over again,
Mr. President. A few presidents have said it that way, but it
was a slip and they didn't consistently make the same mistake.
Why make an easy-to-pronounce word difficult with such a manner
of speaking? >>

Linguist Geoffrey Nunberg once said in a FRESH AIR commentary that the
pronunciation 'nucular' may have begun with people to whom it was an
unfamiliar word so it seemed a bit like 'molecular'. But, he went on
to say, nowdays 'nuclear' is not an unfamiliar word and people like
GWB pronounce it just fine when speaking of 'nuclear families'.
Nunberg suggested that [US] generals and presidents speak of 'nucular'
weapons in the spirit of "I've got them, I can use them, so I can
pronounce them any way I like."






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 13 06:40:26 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:40:26 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcahjq+nmhp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcam0q+moib@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Carole wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33134>:
> 
> << "Jillous" and "jillatin" and "Milissa"? Or is "silly" "selly" in
> your pronunciation? Reminds me of Potioncat and her ballpoint "pin."
> <Gren. Erm, grin> I'm not trying to be sneppy, erm, snippy, just
> noting that for me, a short "i" and a short "e" are distinct sounds. >>

> I can tell pin from pen, grin from gren, and snip from snep. But not
> silly from selly or jilly from jelly or bilious from belious. Having
> thought about it, I realised this is personal rather than a dialect,
> because my late mother used to get on my case about it all the time,
> insisting that I pronounce some words differently except her
> demonstration of how to say them sounded exactly like the way I
> already said them ...

Geoff:
I noticed this particularly with the LOTR DVDs. New Zealanders 
appear to turn 'e' into 'i'. I noticed this often with Peter Jackson 
and one occasion comes to mind when he used 'vigitebbles' for 
'vegetables' sevgeral times.

Catlady: 
> Continuing on the subject of people frustrating me: I am certain that
> when I say 'thin', the TH sounds a little bit like an F and when I say
> 'think', the TH sounds a little bit like an S. I could say words
> starting with TH all day and all the 'unvoiced' (is that right?) ones
> would sound like one of those two examples. My in-person friends are
> driving me mad by insisting that they can't hear any difference in my
> two different THs.


Geoff:
To a UK speaker, talking about 'fings', 'finking' and 'fahsends' -
meaning 'things', 'thinking' and 'thousands' immediately links 
with what my eldest son jokingly calls 'Sarf Lunnon'. It's very 
much a part of the London accents.

It is partly a question of a bad tongue position. I taught in South 
London for 32 years and one of my regular joking responses to 
pupils speaking like this was 'this is one time when you are 
allowed to  stick out your tongue at sir'!




From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 14:03:31 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Katie)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:03:31 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Theme Park - LINK
In-Reply-To: <fcaaqp+h8e5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbfvj+bmao@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> > 
> > Stacy here:
> 
> > 
> > Have you heard where it will be built?  Somewhere in the UK 
> probably?
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> Hold on to your Mouse-ears....Orlando. Actually, Universal Studios-
> Orlando. I think it will be part of Island of Adventure. 
> 
> I will be there in 2008 when it opens. You'll know me because the 
> teenager with me will have a grin from ear to ear and I'll be 
having 
> a meltdown. I loathe amusement parks. 
> 
> When I first finished DH, the thought of a Harry Potter Theme Park 
> made me ill. Later I saw JKR's interview and I realised that to 
her, 
> the Potterverse is alive and well and carrying-on. So, I can start 
to 
> appreciate the magic of it.
> 
> I hope to Merlin that Professor Dumbledore and Professor Snape 
won't 
> be wandering around the park, posing for photos.

***Katie:
Me, too. But, honestly, it looks pretty awesome. The guy who designed 
the sets for the films is in charge of the project. Here's the link 
to the website: http://www.universalorlando.com/harrypotter/

It looks pretty good to me! Katie
>





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 14:40:48 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:40:48 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
Message-ID: <fcbi5g+jjj8@eGroups.com>

> JP
>
> PS: Has anyone seen the previews for the new movie "The Seeker"?
Harry Potter, Jr anyone? I think the main character's name is Larry
Topper. hehe :P

Magpie:
Them's fightin' words. That is the movie of The Dark is Rising, a
book (and series) that came out well before Harry Potter. The main
character is Will Stanton, my fictional love since the age of 11. In
the book he's nothing like Harry, really (except for becoming a
wizard at 11 and being English, I guess) but the movie has
completely changed the story and Will. The Dark is Rising fandom has
been watching developments on it with growing horror. Imagine if the
HP movies had made Harry American, changed the Dursleys into nice
people, changed Ron and Hermione into one person and made Harry bff
with Snape. That's the kind of changes we're talking about.


Alla:

Oh dear, oh dear and oh dear again. See that is the kind of movie 
making that makes me so very angry sometimes at people who try to 
make the adaptations.

I actually want to tell them - stick to at least heart of the story, 
or do not do it at all.

If I want to see movie **based** on the book, I want to recognise 
the  book in it. Yes, I am wierd that way, sigh.

No, I am not talking about shortening the story - I understand the 
necessity of that, I may grumble about it, but I understand, but WTF -
 the changes that I just read about on Wiki.

I KNOW I am not seeing that movie, no matter how good in itself it 
can be.

I love Will Stanton as well and NO, he is not like Harry at all 
indeed besides being English and becoming a wizard at eleven. Not 
even close.


And he is NOT, he is NOT American, oh my goodness. Sorry, annoyed. 
But the whole story loses so much of sense. It is based on English 
folklor. On *English**. And I wonder is Bran still Pendragon? Is he 
even there?

Sorry, annoyed.

Alla






From jnferr at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 14:48:49 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:48:49 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcbi5g+jjj8@eGroups.com>
References: <fcbi5g+jjj8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709130748v4f34ac44j1246046ddd5ad509@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Magpie:
> Them's fightin' words. That is the movie of The Dark is Rising, a
> book (and series) that came out well before Harry Potter. The main
> character is Will Stanton, my fictional love since the age of 11. In
> the book he's nothing like Harry, really (except for becoming a
> wizard at 11 and being English, I guess) but the movie has
> completely changed the story and Will. The Dark is Rising fandom has
> been watching developments on it with growing horror. Imagine if the
> HP movies had made Harry American, changed the Dursleys into nice
> people, changed Ron and Hermione into one person and made Harry bff
> with Snape. That's the kind of changes we're talking about.
>
>
> Alla:
>
> Oh dear, oh dear and oh dear again. See that is the kind of movie
> making that makes me so very angry sometimes at people who try to
> make the adaptations.
>
> I actually want to tell them - stick to at least heart of the story,
> or do not do it at all.
>
> If I want to see movie **based** on the book, I want to recognise
> the  book in it. Yes, I am wierd that way, sigh.
>
> No, I am not talking about shortening the story - I understand the
> necessity of that, I may grumble about it, but I understand, but WTF -
> the changes that I just read about on Wiki.
>
> I KNOW I am not seeing that movie, no matter how good in itself it
> can be.
>
> I love Will Stanton as well and NO, he is not like Harry at all
> indeed besides being English and becoming a wizard at eleven. Not
> even close.
>
>
> And he is NOT, he is NOT American, oh my goodness. Sorry, annoyed.
> But the whole story loses so much of sense. It is based on English
> folklor. On *English**. And I wonder is Bran still Pendragon? Is he
> even there?


montims:
Heartily agree.  I went to see the last HP movie with my husband and a
couple of friends, none of whom have read the books, though they tolerate my
obsession...  Anyway, they were asking who the blonde girl (Luna) was, and
had she just started at Hogwarts cos they'd never seen her before?  And what
was the point in adding another new character, just to feed apples to the
thestrals???   Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 13 15:17:11 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:17:11 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcbi5g+jjj8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbk9n+ojb3@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> 
> Oh dear, oh dear and oh dear again. See that is the kind of movie 
> making that makes me so very angry sometimes at people who try to 
> make the adaptations.
> 
> I actually want to tell them - stick to at least heart of the 
story, 
> or do not do it at all.
> 
> If I want to see movie **based** on the book, I want to recognise 
> the  book in it. Yes, I am wierd that way, sigh.
> 
> No, I am not talking about shortening the story - I understand the 
> necessity of that, I may grumble about it, but I understand, but 
WTF -
>  the changes that I just read about on Wiki.
> 
> I KNOW I am not seeing that movie, no matter how good in itself it 
> can be.
> 
> I love Will Stanton as well and NO, he is not like Harry at all 
> indeed besides being English and becoming a wizard at eleven. Not 
> even close.
> 
> 
> And he is NOT, he is NOT American, oh my goodness. Sorry, annoyed. 
> But the whole story loses so much of sense. It is based on English 
> folklor. On *English**. And I wonder is Bran still Pendragon? Is 
he 
> even there?
> 
> Sorry, annoyed.

Magpie:
I so can't get over the changes to this movie. His family is 
American, and they bully him. There's fewer of them, he has a little 
sister, his parents are emotionally cold--so bye bye to my beloved 
Stantons I loved so much! He's also 13 now for some reason. I can't 
even begin to explain the horror I feel reading this.

Bran wouldn't be in The Dark is Rising anyway, since he doesn't show 
up until the Grey King. I can't imagine what they'd do to him. 
Will's American so that he can be even more isolated in a strange 
country (why? who knows?) so I almost wonder if they'd even see the 
difference between English and Welsh as important. 

-m





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 15:25:06 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:25:06 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcbk9n+ojb3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbkoi+omj2@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> I so can't get over the changes to this movie. His family is 
> American, and they bully him. There's fewer of them, he has a 
little 
> sister, his parents are emotionally cold--so bye bye to my beloved 
> Stantons I loved so much! He's also 13 now for some reason. I can't 
> even begin to explain the horror I feel reading this.
> 
> Bran wouldn't be in The Dark is Rising anyway, since he doesn't 
show 
> up until the Grey King. I can't imagine what they'd do to him. 
> Will's American so that he can be even more isolated in a strange 
> country (why? who knows?) so I almost wonder if they'd even see the 
> difference between English and Welsh as important. 
> 
> -m
>


Alla:

Shudders. They **bully** him? Will's parents bully him? Why? Why? Oh 
never mind me. Are they indeed obsessed to create Harry's clone and 
do not want unique character?

Right, for some reason I was thinking about series as whole, when I 
was talking about Bran's appearance, who knows, maybe they will 
remake him in american character?

Luke Skywalker Grand child or something like that?

And Will is not the old one, eh? He is a warrior now?

What "old one" title is not grand enough for movie makers?

I mean, there are only seven of them in the **whole world**.

Grrrrrrr.




From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 15:38:46 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Katie)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:38:46 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcbkoi+omj2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbli6+kjeg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Magpie:
> > I so can't get over the changes to this movie. His family is 
> > American, and they bully him. There's fewer of them, he has a 
> little 
> > sister, his parents are emotionally cold--so bye bye to my beloved 
> > Stantons I loved so much! He's also 13 now for some reason. I can't 
> > even begin to explain the horror I feel reading this.
<<SNIP>> 
> > -m

> Alla:
> 
> Shudders. They **bully** him? Will's parents bully him? Why? Why? Oh 
never mind me. Are they indeed obsessed to create Harry's clone and do 
not want unique character?
<<SNIP>>

***Katie:
Well, at least this seemingly horrible movie has done one positive 
thing - I've never heard of these books before, and now I very much 
want to read them. In fact, I am gathering up my kids at this very 
moment and we are off to the library to find them. I plan to begin 
devouring them this afternoon while the kids nap.

And once I read them, I am quite sure I won't want to see this movie at 
all, either! (Not that I wanted to see it before!)

On the sort of same topic - what does everyone think of the Golden 
Compass movie that's coming out? I personally am pretty scared about 
Nicole Kidman as Mrs. Coulter, although the rest of it seems basically 
true to the book. I like the guy who's playing Asriel, and Lyra is a 
good fit...but still, the books are so dense...I wonder if they can 
pull it off. 

Katie




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 16:58:39 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:58:39 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcbli6+kjeg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbq7v+114gb@eGroups.com>

> ***Katie:
> Well, at least this seemingly horrible movie has done one positive 
> thing - I've never heard of these books before, and now I very much 
> want to read them. In fact, I am gathering up my kids at this very 
> moment and we are off to the library to find them. I plan to begin 
> devouring them this afternoon while the kids nap.
> 
> And once I read them, I am quite sure I won't want to see this 
movie at 
> all, either! (Not that I wanted to see it before!)

Alla:

I love those books. I so hope you will love them too.



> 
> On the sort of same topic - what does everyone think of the Golden 
> Compass movie that's coming out? I personally am pretty scared 
about 
> Nicole Kidman as Mrs. Coulter, although the rest of it seems 
basically 
> true to the book. I like the guy who's playing Asriel, and Lyra is 
a 
> good fit...but still, the books are so dense...I wonder if they can 
> pull it off. 
> 
> Katie
>


Alla:

I do not know. I am planning on seeing the movie, since I did adore 
the first two books, hehe. I have not seen any trailers, so we shall 
see.





From stacygalore at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 20:36:24 2007
From: stacygalore at yahoo.com (stacygalore)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:36:24 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Theme Park - LINK
In-Reply-To: <fcbfvj+bmao@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcc708+e78l@eGroups.com>


> > > Stacy wrote earlier:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Have you heard where it will be built?  Somewhere in the UK 
> > probably?
> > 
> > 
> > Potioncat:
> > Hold on to your Mouse-ears....Orlando. Actually, Universal Studios-
> > Orlando. I think it will be part of Island of Adventure. 
> > 
> > I will be there in 2008 when it opens. You'll know me because the 
> > teenager with me will have a grin from ear to ear and I'll be 
> having 
> > a meltdown. I loathe amusement parks. 
> > 
> > When I first finished DH, the thought of a Harry Potter Theme Park 
> > made me ill. Later I saw JKR's interview and I realised that to 
> her, 
> > the Potterverse is alive and well and carrying-on. So, I can start 
> to 
> > appreciate the magic of it.
> > 
> > I hope to Merlin that Professor Dumbledore and Professor Snape 
> won't 
> > be wandering around the park, posing for photos.
> 
> ***Katie:
> Me, too. But, honestly, it looks pretty awesome. The guy who designed 
> the sets for the films is in charge of the project. Here's the link 
> to the website: http://www.universalorlando.com/harrypotter/
> 
> It looks pretty good to me! Katie

Stacy again:

OK, now that I've seen the little teaser on the Universal Studios website, and now that I 
know it will be just a 2 hour plane ride from New York, I am officially excited!  I LOVE 
Islands of Adventure, almost as much as I love Disney World.  I can't wait to take my little 
girl there.  She'll be too young to really appreciate it, but the kid in me will be squealing 
with joy. . . now all I have to do is convince my husband . . .hmm.  

- Stacy, wishing I could put my dear husband under the imperius curse to make him take 
us to Orlando in 2009.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 22:05:40 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:05:40 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccc7k+pvga@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > 
> > Ah, a new direction for this thread! Some of the many
mispronunciations that grate on my nerves are "nucular" for "nuclear,"
"often" with the "t" pronounced (an affectation, IMO), and "sell" for
"sale."
> 
> Geoff:
> I'm not quite sure which pronunciation for 'nuclear' you mean...
> 
> The one which I don't like is 'noo-clear' which may be the one you
are highlighting. As a Brit (gosh, are you? - what a surprise!) I say
 'new-clear'. ,snip>


Carol again:
I've never heard anyone say "new clear." I was referring to "new kew
ler," esentially, George Bush's pronunciation of "nuclear" (which I
pronounce "new klee er").

Carol, who had to turn on the subtitles to understand some of the
dialogue in "Love, Actually" when she watched it on DVD last night





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 22:22:33 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:22:33 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709110442h14bbf067scadfffd66f1f9126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fccd79+cke8@eGroups.com>

montims:
> and taking it wildly off topic, I hate with a passion the word
"wellness" that has sprung up evverywhere.  "Health" is a perfectly
good word - "wellness" is an abomination!  IMO of course...
> 
> Oh yes, and the hip abbreviations - dubvee for volksvagen, wamu for
Washington Mutual, soco for Southern Comfort, etc etc.  I grind my
teeth so badly these days if I watch television...

Carol:
I've already mentioned "issue" and "gender" as pet peeves of mine
(also "emergency situation" and "crisis situation"). I don't like
"prior to," either. What in the name of goodness is wrong with
"before"? People just like to sound pretentious, I suppose.

BTW, yesterday I saw/heard an ad on TV for "two pair of glasses."
Shouldn't that be "two pairs"? 

On a slightly different note, a local newscaster with a sign behind
her stating that 75% of noncitizens who live in Arizona come from
Mexico informed the viewers that *2/3* of such noncitizens come from
Mexico. I actually called the TV station to inform them that 75% =
3/4, not 2/3. Seems that JKR isn't the only one struggling with simple
math. I hope that no seventh-graders watching the program took the
newscaster at her word and messed up on their math homework as a result.

While I'm here, maybe someone can help me remember a word for a
grammatical error or other linguistic infelicity (e.g., "irregardless"
for "regardless"). I'm not thinking of malapropism (using a word that
sounds similar to the one you mean, often with comic effect). I hate
it when a word I should know just slips out of my consciousness, but
this particular word isn't used very often, so maybe I have some
excuse. Any takers?

Carol, who hasn't noticed the "hip abbreviations" but is annoyed by
affectation even more than by ignorance





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 22:35:07 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:35:07 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccdur+nuq9@eGroups.com>

bboyminn wrote:
<snip "liberry" comment>
> Another thing that chafes my shorts it the creation of fake words to
try and either make yourself sound more intelligent, or to obscure a
point. These words typically are normal words with '-ize', '-isation',
'-ate', or other equally pointless suffixes added.

Carol responds:
As in "commentate," one that JKR is guilty of using? I think it's a
back formation from "commentator," but whatever happened to "comment"
and how did "commenter" evolve into "commentator" in the first place?

I have a friend who thinks that "applicator" should be "applier"
because whatever substance is being applied is not being "applicated."
(Actually, I think the same thing, but he's the one who brought it up.)

Carol, who thinks fears that "liberry" will become as acceptable as
"Feb yu ary" in the next decade or two since most dictionaries list
the most common pronunciation first




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 22:39:31 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:39:31 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcce73+2rh6@eGroups.com>

montims:
> while we're ranting...
> How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in America?
 At first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling error,
like the greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it pronounced as
lounge in tv programmes and furniture commercials.  It doesn't even
make sense that way...

Carol responds:
Because you "lounge" on it? What does "longue" mean, anyway, and does
it rhyme with "tongue"?

I suppose "chaise lounge" strikes you the way "bedroom suit" for
"bedroom suite" strikes me, but I've never seen "chaise lounge"
spelled any other way.

Carol, who would have thought that "chaise longue" was the error!




From jnferr at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 22:50:17 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:50:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fcce73+2rh6@eGroups.com>
References: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <fcce73+2rh6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709131550l5638fe87pba6ad533a33d43a5@mail.gmail.com>

>
> montims:
> > while we're ranting...
> > How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in America?
> At first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling error,
> like the greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it pronounced as
> lounge in tv programmes and furniture commercials.  It doesn't even
> make sense that way...
>
> Carol responds:
> Because you "lounge" on it? What does "longue" mean, anyway, and does
> it rhyme with "tongue"?
>
> I suppose "chaise lounge" strikes you the way "bedroom suit" for
> "bedroom suite" strikes me, but I've never seen "chaise lounge"
> spelled any other way.
>
> Carol, who would have thought that "chaise longue" was the error!


montims:
chaise longue is quite simply French for long chair, and in Europe is
particularly used for the upholstered one that looks like an armchair at one
side, and stretches out, armless, to the other side...
Longue is pronounced long, and is the feminine form of the adjective, chaise
being the feminine word meaning chair...  So pronounced roughly "shezz
long".
Honestly, it's irritating to see or hear "lounge"...  You'll understand!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 13 22:55:36 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:55:36 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fccd79+cke8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccf58+3f6u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Carol:
> While I'm here, maybe someone can help me remember a word for a
> grammatical error or other linguistic infelicity (e.g., "irregardless"
> for "regardless"). I'm not thinking of malapropism (using a word that
> sounds similar to the one you mean, often with comic effect). 

Geoff:
Er... mistake?
:-)




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 23:02:35 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:02:35 -0000
Subject: chaise longue and nuclear (new-kew-lar as our you-know-who says it)
In-Reply-To: <000c01c7f55d$1258c680$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fccfib+i4lc@eGroups.com>

Lee wrote:
> I haven't been really reading this thread, so some of these may have
popped up:
> "Lie-berry" for Library
> "Febuary" for February (in fact, my speech synthesizer says "Febuary")
> "Amboo-lance" for Ambulance (which most easterners, at least,
pronounce with a long U "Am-BU-Lance."
> "Ruff" for Roof (with long U sound)
> "Spaycial" for Special
> And don't forget the "on-velope" "en-velope" thing.

Carol responds:
Yes, Steve brought up "liberry." I mentioned "Febuary" (no first "r")
as the preferred, or rather, first-listed pronunciation in my
dictionary, so it must be becoming standard. I can't tell whether
you're including a "y" sound before the "u" in "ambulance," which I
pronounce "AM byou lans" (that is, the "u" sounds like the word "you"
with a "y" before the long "u" and a soft final "s"--not quite "lance"
but the "a" isn't a schwa, either). I say "roof," not "rUf, but that's
purely regional. (I don't say "ruff," as in the thing NHN wears around
his neck.)

"Spaycial" is annoying, I agree, but, fortunately, not common. my
son-in-law says "RAY dee" for "ready"; no idea where that comes from,
but I try to ignore it. He also talks about driving "down to Phoenix,"
which is north of Tucson (where we live), but I try to ignore that,
too. (If he ever says "down to Flagstaff," which is not only 240 miles
to the north but something like 4,000 feet higher than Tucson, I'll
complain. It's "down to Mexico" and "up to Canada" because north is at
the top of the map!)

I'm not sure whether "onvelope" for "envelope" is an affectation or a
regionalism, but, presumably, it reflects the French origin of the word.

Carol, who would look up the "onvelope" thing but assumes that someone
who knows the answer will provide it




From kcrani01 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 13 22:52:02 2007
From: kcrani01 at hotmail.com (libscimaj)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:52:02 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fccd79+cke8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcceui+af9d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...>
wrote:

> While I'm here, maybe someone can help me remember a word
> for a grammatical error or other linguistic infelicity (e.g.,
> "irregardless" for "regardless"). I'm not thinking of malapropism
> (using a word that sounds similar to the one you mean, often with
> comic effect). I hate it when a word I should know just slips out
> of my consciousness, but this particular word isn't used very often,
> so maybe I have some excuse. Any takers?


Carol, is the word you're looking for "solecism"?

kcrani01




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 23:15:01 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:15:01 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Theme Park
In-Reply-To: <fc9e4j+i1fe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccg9l+8sq5@eGroups.com>

Katie wrote:
>
> I haven't seen much discussion of this. I am so psyched about it! I
wasn't sure at first how I felt, but as the idea grew on me, I 
realized there was nothing more I wanted in the world than to walk 
down Diagon Alley, to walk into Honeyduke's or get a butterbeer at the
Hog's Head...to buy robes at Madame Malkin's or stare with starry eyes
at the latest brooms floating in the shop window. I want to get money
at Gringotts (I hope I can change my "Muggle money" for knuts and 
galleons!), I want to just completely submerge myself in Potterverse. 
<snip>
> What is the thing you most want to do there, if you want to go there
at all?
> 
> What is the thing you hope they don't screw up, above all other things?

Carol responds:
Well, the Hog's Head isn't in Diagon Alley, but I'm sure you could get
a butterbeer at the Leaky Cauldron just as well, or maybe Hogsmeade
will be on the other side of the park.

If I go, which is slightly more likely than my going to the moon, I
would just hope not to see shrunken heads like the ones from the PoA
film all over the place. What I would really want and, of course,
would not get to see would be the "real" Severus Snape. I do hope that
the park is set in the first through fourth years, so that there's no
Umbridge in sight and no changes to Diagon Alley or Hogsmeade from the
way they appear in the early books, and I want Snape, not Slughorn, as
the Potions master if we see the teachers at all. I wonder who they'll
choose as DADA teacher, if they have to choose just one. 

The HP books, for me, are about Hogwarts, and that's what I would most
wish to see if I ever went there. I definitely don't care about any rides.

Carol, who hasn't read much about the theme park since it was first
announced and isn't exactly what will be included




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 23:36:10 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:36:10 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcahjq+nmhp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcchha+cvll@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33134>:
> 
> << "Jillous" and "jillatin" and "Milissa"? Or is "silly" "selly" in
> your pronunciation? Reminds me of Potioncat and her ballpoint "pin."
> <Gren. Erm, grin> I'm not trying to be sneppy, erm, snippy, just
> noting that for me, a short "i" and a short "e" are distinct sounds. >>
Catlady responded: 
> I can tell pin from pen, grin from gren, and snip from snep. But not
> silly from selly or jilly from jelly or bilious from belious. Having
> thought about it, I realised this is personal rather than a dialect,
> because my late mother used to get on my case about it all the time,
> insisting that I pronounce some words differently except her
> demonstration of how to say them sounded exactly like the way I
> already said them ...

Carol again:
It must be the "l" that's interfering with your hearing the
difference, just as the "r" interferes with my distinguishing "Sirius"
from "serious." (Note to Melanie: We've discussed this topic rather
thoroughly recently. There's no "sir" sound in "Sirius," if you're
thinking of "sir" as in, "Yes, sir.")

Catlady: 
> Continuing on the subject of people frustrating me: I am certain
that when I say 'thin', the TH sounds a little bit like an F and when
I say 'think', the TH sounds a little bit like an S. I could say words
starting with TH all day and all the 'unvoiced' (is that right?) ones
would sound like one of those two examples. My in-person friends are
driving me mad by insisting that they can't hear any difference in my
two different THs. <snip>

Carol:
Yes, "unvoiced" is right because the voicebox isn't involved in the
pronunciation of an unvoiced "th," only the lips and tongue. It's like
the difference between "t" (unvoiced) and "d" (voiced) or "s"
(unvoiced) and "z" (voiced). You should hear it clearly in "this"
(voiced "th") vs. "thin" (unvoiced "th"). There's no difference
between the "the sounds of "think" and "thin"--unvoiced in both cases.
But try saying "the" with an unvoiced "th" as in "thin." Can't be
done, or, at least, can't be done easily. (If you say the voiced "th"
alone and hold it for awhile, your tongue will vibrate a little.)

Carol, whose tongue is still tingling slightly from a voiced "th" and
is glad no one is around to hear her testing the sounds!




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 23:54:27 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:54:27 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fcceui+af9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccijj+1d8r@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote:
> 
> > While I'm here, maybe someone can help me remember a word for a
grammatical error or other linguistic infelicity (e.g.,"irregardless"
for "regardless"). I'm not thinking of malapropism (using a word that
sounds similar to the one you mean, often with comic effect). I hate
it when a word I should know just slips out of my consciousness, but
this particular word isn't used very often, so maybe I have some
excuse. Any takers?
> 
kcrani01 kindly responded: 

> Carol, is the word you're looking for "solecism"?

Carol again: 

(Slaps forehead.) Yes! Thank you very much.

Carol, now needing some sort of mnemonic device so she won't forget
"solecism" again




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 23:56:43 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:56:43 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fccdur+nuq9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccinr+s9jh@eGroups.com>

---  "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> bboyminn wrote:
> <snip "liberry" comment>
> > Another thing that chafes my shorts it the creation
> > of fake words to try and either make yourself sound
> > more intelligent, or to obscure a point. These words
> > typically are normal words with '-ize', '-isation',
> '-ate', or other equally pointless suffixes added.
> 
> Carol responds:
> ...
> 
> I have a friend who thinks that "applicator" should 
> be "applier" because whatever substance is being 
> applied is not being "applicated." (Actually, I 
> think the same thing, but he's the one who brought it up.)
> 

bboyminn:

I'm thinking of pseudo-words like - using your example -
'applicatorization or 'applierize'. People in business
are alway doing this. One place I worked used the term
'levelize' all the time, I never bothered to find out
what it means. 

In case you didn't know 'levelizing' is the process of
'levelization'. 

I can't really think of any common real-life examples,
I do make an effort to forget them when I hear them.

Steve/bbo




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 01:26:14 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 01:26:14 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcbli6+kjeg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccnvm+sn0c@eGroups.com>


> > > Magpie:
> > > I so can't get over the changes to this movie. His family is 
> > > American, and they bully him. There's fewer of them, he has a 
> > little 
> > > sister, his parents are emotionally cold--so bye bye to my beloved 
> > > Stantons I loved so much! He's also 13 now for some reason. I can't 
> > > even begin to explain the horror I feel reading this.
> <<SNIP>> 


marion11111:
I have looked and can't find the place where I read that one of the changes they're going to 
make is to remove the King Arthur focus.  Ummm.  Isn't that the whole point?  

I had to look on the website to figure out who the people on the poster were.  The babe is 
the plain frumpy servant girl who has a crush on Will's older brother.  And why is Will such 
a smart**s in the trailer?  "Can I fly?  You know, whoosh."  He seems completely unlikable.

I'm trying to be open-minded since this is the same studio that did Narnia and I thought 
that was a pretty decent adaptation, but this one really does look awful.

> 
> ***Katie:
> Well, at least this seemingly horrible movie has done one positive 
> thing - I've never heard of these books before, and now I very much 
> want to read them. In fact, I am gathering up my kids at this very 
> moment and we are off to the library to find them. I plan to begin 
> devouring them this afternoon while the kids nap.
> 
> And once I read them, I am quite sure I won't want to see this movie at 
> all, either! (Not that I wanted to see it before!)
> 

marion11111:
Even expecting this to be horrible, I went out and bought the movie poster and have it 
displayed in the shcool library and the books are flying off the shelves!!  Mission: 
accomplished.


> On the sort of same topic - what does everyone think of the Golden 
> Compass movie that's coming out? I personally am pretty scared about 
> Nicole Kidman as Mrs. Coulter, although the rest of it seems basically 
> true to the book. I like the guy who's playing Asriel, and Lyra is a 
> good fit...but still, the books are so dense...I wonder if they can 
> pull it off. 
> 
> Katie
>

marion11111:
I think this one looks OK.  The bears look great and I like the casting of Nicole Kidman.  I 
haven't seen any daemons in any trailer and wonder how they'll do that.  I would think CGI 
animals sitting around all the time would be visually distracting, but they're a pretty 
important part of the story.

Also out in February - Spiderwick.  Again, the trailer looks pretty good.  





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 01:45:01 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 01:45:01 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fccnvm+sn0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccp2t+gh0u@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> I have looked and can't find the place where I read that one of 
the changes they're going to 
> make is to remove the King Arthur focus.  Ummm.  Isn't that the 
whole point?  



Alla:

Oh how erm wonderful NOT, so  my joke still may turn out to be true. 
Bran Pendragon will become hmmmmm Indiana Jones?

Oy and oy and oy. I remember when I read those books few years ago 
for the first time, how much I fell in love with the language with 
the story, with the music of it, with the **story** and characters.

Oh dear.

 
> I had to look on the website to figure out who the people on the 
poster were.  The babe is 
> the plain frumpy servant girl who has a crush on Will's older 
brother.  And why is Will such 
> a smart**s in the trailer?  "Can I fly?  You know, whoosh."  He 
seems completely unlikable.
> 
> I'm trying to be open-minded since this is the same studio that 
did Narnia and I thought 
> that was a pretty decent adaptation, but this one really does look 
awful.


Alla:

No, Dark is rising with the Arthurian focus, no thanks, no being 
open minded for me. Although they had me on Will being american and 
thirteen and his parents bullying him. 

 
> marion11111:
> Even expecting this to be horrible, I went out and bought the 
movie poster and have it 
> displayed in the shcool library and the books are flying off the 
shelves!!  Mission: 
> accomplished.


Alla:

Heeeee, good for you.

 
> marion11111:
> I think this one looks OK.  The bears look great and I like the 
casting of Nicole Kidman.  I 
> haven't seen any daemons in any trailer and wonder how they'll do 
that.  I would think CGI 
> animals sitting around all the time would be visually distracting, 
but they're a pretty 
> important part of the story.
> 
> Also out in February - Spiderwick.  Again, the trailer looks 
pretty good.
>


Alla:

I will go to see if nothing else for James Bond eye candy, LOL.




From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 01:49:27 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:49:27 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcchha+cvll@eGroups.com>
References: <fcahjq+nmhp@eGroups.com> <fcchha+cvll@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709131849le1d44a2j240f94771b28d4a9@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Carol:
> Yes, "unvoiced" is right because the voicebox isn't involved in the
> pronunciation of an unvoiced "th," only the lips and tongue. It's like
> the difference between "t" (unvoiced) and "d" (voiced) or "s"
> (unvoiced) and "z" (voiced). You should hear it clearly in "this"
> (voiced "th") vs. "thin" (unvoiced "th"). There's no difference
> between the "the sounds of "think" and "thin"--unvoiced in both cases.
> But try saying "the" with an unvoiced "th" as in "thin." Can't be
> done, or, at least, can't be done easily. (If you say the voiced "th"
> alone and hold it for awhile, your tongue will vibrate a little.)
>
> montims:


thermometer?  thermostat?  Hiawatha?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 01:51:01 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:51:01 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fccinr+s9jh@eGroups.com>
References: <fccdur+nuq9@eGroups.com> <fccinr+s9jh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709131851v1f4d0ecct959df217405db9a6@mail.gmail.com>

>
> bboyminn:
>
> I'm thinking of pseudo-words like - using your example -
> 'applicatorization or 'applierize'. People in business
> are alway doing this. One place I worked used the term
> 'levelize' all the time, I never bothered to find out
> what it means.
>
> In case you didn't know 'levelizing' is the process of
> 'levelization'.
>
> I can't really think of any common real-life examples,
> I do make an effort to forget them when I hear them.
>
> Steve/bbo


montims:
burglarize... hospitalize...  in my office they diarize appointments...
Ick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 02:27:00 2007
From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:27:00 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fc81d8+k0bg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccrhk+pnp9@eGroups.com>

> > montims:
> > while we're ranting...
> > How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in 
> > America?
> >
> > but I've heard it pronounced as lounge in tv
> > programmes and furniture commercials.  It doesn't even make 
> > sense that way...

Mike:
This American has never seen it spelled "longue". I didn't know it 
wasn't supposed to be pronounced the same as "lounge". Hmm, a 
Midwesterner's ignorance perhaps? Or was I programmed by American 
TV "programs"? ;)


 
> Geoff:
> That explains why I met "lounge" in an item by a US writer recently 
> and wondered whether it was a printer's error.

Mike:
Now a question for any of our British compratriots. I served in the 
US "Mili TARRY". However, I've noticed that British Armed Forces 
serve in the "Mili TREE". I haven't noticed a difference in spelling, 
both of us use "military", right? 

So why the silent "a"? And are there any other words that have a 
silent vowel sandwiched between two consonants?




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 14 03:08:25 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 03:08:25 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fccp2t+gh0u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcctv9+deag@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> 
> No, Dark is rising with the Arthurian focus, no thanks, no being 
> open minded for me. Although they had me on Will being american and 
> thirteen and his parents bullying him. 

Magpie:
Iirc (even trying to forget it!) his parents are just emotionally 
distant (and are now both college professors) while his brothers bully 
him. And he has a little sister. So much for Will being the youngest of 
9 and the 7th son of a 7th son. And each of those brothers sounds like 
a different Hollywood cliche.

Of course he'll use his magical powers to get back at them--even though 
that's totally against his entire nature as an Old One. Oh, and I think 
the Walker is now young and attractive and falls in love with Maggie. 
There's also a scene at a mall. Um, yeah. A mall.

-m





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 03:10:47 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 03:10:47 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcctv9+deag@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fccu3n+ppp0@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
<SNIP>
 Oh, and I think 
> the Walker is now young and attractive and falls in love with 
Maggie. 
> There's also a scene at a mall. Um, yeah. A mall.


Alla:

HAHAHAHAHHAH. Keep them coming - the changes I mean. I thought it 
cannot be topped, but this is the funniest one in the most idiotic way.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 14 06:42:26 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:42:26 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709131849le1d44a2j240f94771b28d4a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcdagi+o7i7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette <jnferr at ...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Carol:
> > Yes, "unvoiced" is right because the voicebox isn't involved in the
> > pronunciation of an unvoiced "th," only the lips and tongue. It's like
> > the difference between "t" (unvoiced) and "d" (voiced) or "s"
> > (unvoiced) and "z" (voiced). You should hear it clearly in "this"
> > (voiced "th") vs. "thin" (unvoiced "th"). There's no difference
> > between the "the sounds of "think" and "thin"--unvoiced in both cases.
> > But try saying "the" with an unvoiced "th" as in "thin." Can't be
> > done, or, at least, can't be done easily. (If you say the voiced "th"
> > alone and hold it for awhile, your tongue will vibrate a little.)
> >
> > montims:
> 
> 
> thermometer?  thermostat?  Hiawatha?

Geoff:
I think the difference between the voiced and unvoiced 'th' is a tiny 
difference between the tongue positions. The unvoiced 'th' has the 
tongue slightly further forward .

Referring back to my comments on teaching the other day, you'll 
particularly hear sloppy speakers with Cockney  or other similar 
London accents pronounce 'thousand' or 'thirty' with the 'f' sound 
- 'fahsend' or 'firty' - but 'this' or 'that' will be correct....




From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 12:19:06 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:19:06 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcdagi+o7i7@eGroups.com>
References: <8ee758b40709131849le1d44a2j240f94771b28d4a9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <fcdagi+o7i7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709140519w76a2d980raf481c30d6ff0199@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Geoff:
> I think the difference between the voiced and unvoiced 'th' is a tiny
> difference between the tongue positions. The unvoiced 'th' has the
> tongue slightly further forward .
>
> Referring back to my comments on teaching the other day, you'll
> particularly hear sloppy speakers with Cockney  or other similar
> London accents pronounce 'thousand' or 'thirty' with the 'f' sound
> - 'fahsend' or 'firty' - but 'this' or 'that' will be correct....


montims:
Really?  When I worked in the City, and lived in Whitechapel, I had a lot of
cockneys in my office, and spoke to others while shopping and so on, and
they would say Viss and Vatt if they said fahsend...  Beigels of course were
pronounced BYEgels.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From random832 at fastmail.us  Fri Sep 14 12:14:46 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:14:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcdagi+o7i7@eGroups.com>
References: <fcdagi+o7i7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46EA7B36.3030809@fastmail.us>

> Geoff:
> I think the difference between the voiced and unvoiced 'th' is a tiny 
> difference between the tongue positions. The unvoiced 'th' has the 
> tongue slightly further forward .

No, the difference is in whether your vocal cords are vibrating. when 
you're whispering, the difference is that the "unvoiced" [both are 
actually unvoiced] one uses more air (in "th"'s case, the tongue may be 
slightly further forward to let more air through - I'll take a guess and 
say you probably arrived at a conclusion by repeating the two sounds and 
analyzing where your mouth was, but did it at a whisper to avoid 
sounding like an idiot to those around you). this is true for all such 
consonant pairs [p/b, t/d, s/z, k/g]



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 14 13:08:16 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:08:16 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709140519w76a2d980raf481c30d6ff0199@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fce140+j54c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette <jnferr at ...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Geoff:
> > I think the difference between the voiced and unvoiced 'th' is a tiny
> > difference between the tongue positions. The unvoiced 'th' has the
> > tongue slightly further forward .
> >
> > Referring back to my comments on teaching the other day, you'll
> > particularly hear sloppy speakers with Cockney  or other similar
> > London accents pronounce 'thousand' or 'thirty' with the 'f' sound
> > - 'fahsend' or 'firty' - but 'this' or 'that' will be correct....
> 
> 
> montims:
> Really?  When I worked in the City, and lived in Whitechapel, I had a lot of
> cockneys in my office, and spoke to others while shopping and so on, and
> they would say Viss and Vatt if they said fahsend...  Beigels of course were
> pronounced BYEgels.

Geoff:
That was never the case in Wandsworth where I lived for over 40 years- or 
Morden where I taught. Perhaps my examples fall in my "other similar 
London accents" category.

Your speakers sound as if they might also belong to the Jewish community 
which is fairly strong on that side of the city. Also, my dictionary tells me 
that 'beigel' is a Yiddish word; the spelling I usually see is 'bagel'.




From specialcritters at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 14 13:31:21 2007
From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:31:21 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: the Dark is Rising series and more
In-Reply-To: <fccnvm+sn0c@eGroups.com>
References: <fcbli6+kjeg@eGroups.com> <fccnvm+sn0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY138-W381AA7CEE89D88BF50AA47B2BC0@phx.gbl>


I just wanted to thank everybody who mentioned "The Dark is Rising." I hadn't heard of it before, thought it sounded interesting, and found the boxed set for under $20 at Amazon. I'm looking forward to getting it!!
 
The previous discussions convinced me to give "His Dark Materials" another chance, too; I just couldn't get going with it last time.
 
Thanks all!!
 
Oh, and if I might throw in another richly drawn, detailed series, one I enjoy even though it's very different from HP, is Brian Jacques' "Redwall" series.
  


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 13:36:04 2007
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:36:04 -0000
Subject: the Dark is Rising series and more
In-Reply-To: <BAY138-W381AA7CEE89D88BF50AA47B2BC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fce2o4+gduu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Lee Truslow 
<specialcritters at ...> wrote:
  
> Oh, and if I might throw in another richly drawn, detailed series, 
one I enjoy even though it's very different from HP, is Brian 
Jacques' "Redwall" series.

Well, maybe the first few...

The series is endless, and my daughter's friend kept lending her book 
after book after book.  Daughter refused them after a while, saying 
they were all the same, though she loved them at first.

Annemehr





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 14 13:35:09 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:35:09 -0000
Subject: the Dark is Rising series and more
In-Reply-To: <BAY138-W381AA7CEE89D88BF50AA47B2BC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fce2md+ota8@eGroups.com>

Lee:
> I just wanted to thank everybody who mentioned "The Dark is 
Rising." I hadn't heard of it before, thought it sounded 
interesting, and found the boxed set for under $20 at Amazon. I'm 
looking forward to getting it!!
>  
> The previous discussions convinced me to give "His Dark Materials" 
another chance, too; I just couldn't get going with it last time.
>  
> Thanks all!!
>  
> Oh, and if I might throw in another richly drawn, detailed series, 
one I enjoy even though it's very different from HP, is Brian 
Jacques' "Redwall" series.

Magpie:
Yay! Always happy to hear somebody reading TDiR. The first book, 
Over Sea, Under Stone, was written years before the second, so 
you'll notice a change in tone between the two. I read the second 
book first, myself, but the first two can really be read like that.

I ought to read the next two Dark Materials too. I've only read the 
first one. Love Brian Jacques, though.:-)

-m





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 14:10:52 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:10:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: the Dark is Rising series and more
Message-ID: <203974.73007.qm@web90412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> > Lee:

 > > I just wanted to thank everybody who mentioned "The Dark is 

 Rising." I hadn't heard of it before, thought it sounded 

 interesting, and found the boxed set for under $20 at Amazon. I'm 

 looking forward to getting it!!

 >  
>
 > >The previous discussions convinced me to give "His Dark Materials" 

 another chance, too; I just couldn't get going with it last time.


> Magpie:

> Yay! Always happy to hear somebody reading TDiR. The first book, 

 Over Sea, Under Stone, was written years before the second, so 

 you'll notice a change in tone between the two. I read the second 

 book first, myself, but the first two can really be read like that.

 
>
> I ought to read the next two Dark Materials too. I've only read the 

 first one. Love Brian Jacques, though.:-)


Kemper now:
I went to the library last night to start the Sequence because so many people recommended it as well.  I was surprised to find it was published over 40 years ago.  

I enjoyed His Dark Materials.  Though, I was disappointed in Lyra's character.  In the first book, she is strong and independent.  Then she meets a boy.  And becomes less strong, less independent.  Or so it seems to me.  I look forward to the movie (Nicole Kidman looks wicked!) and hope the script keeps Lyra more bad ass than the series.
 

     
Kemper




       
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From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 14 14:09:54 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:09:54 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcdagi+o7i7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fce4ni+m503@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> I think the difference between the voiced and unvoiced 'th' is a 
tiny 
> difference between the tongue positions. The unvoiced 'th' has the 
> tongue slightly further forward .
> 
> Referring back to my comments on teaching the other day, you'll 
> particularly hear sloppy speakers with Cockney  or other similar 
> London accents pronounce 'thousand' or 'thirty' with the 'f' sound 
> - 'fahsend' or 'firty' - but 'this' or 'that' will be correct....

Magpie:
Now I have this thread on the brain. I was just watching a clip of 
Harry Enfield and realized--hey, apparently in Britain they 
pronounce urinal "yer-EYE-nul" instead of "YER-in-ul." Which is 
interesting because in the UK Dynasty is "DIN-as-tee" and in the US 
it's "DIE-nas-tee."

This probably would not have been half so interesting to me if I had 
not been reading this thread.

-m (who's always sort of loved the South London accent--I always 
thought of it as the one that sounds like you've got marbles in your 
mouth.:-D)




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 18:55:02 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:55:02 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcele6+4nfu@eGroups.com>

---  Janette <jnferr at ...> wrote:

> 
> 
> montims:
> while we're ranting...
> How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise 
> lounge" in America?  At first, I thought it was just
> a common seller's spelling error, ... It doesn't even
> make sense that way...

bboyminn:

Well, it is a 'chaise', from the French meaning Chair,
that you lounge in. Also known as a 'lounge chair'.

Also, note that 'longue' doesn't seem to be a word, at
least it's not in the two dictionaries I consulted.

**In addition, I just consulted my 4 inch thick Library
dictionary and Dictionary.com, neither lists 'longue' 
as a word. 

Silly as it may be, I think most Americans assumed
that 'longue' was a misspelling and that 'lounge' was
the only alternate word that made sense. Plus, when it
comes to grammer and such, we can be a little lazy.

I think most Americas, though it could just be me, 
say 'chase lougue' (chays lounj) rather than 'shaaz
long'. 

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 19:30:29 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:30:29 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
Message-ID: <fcengl+1ufa@eGroups.com>

Since people are discussing the "Dark is Rising' Series,
and some seem to view it favorably, I would like those
in the group who are familiar with it, to give me an
honest assessment of it.

Bad as you think the movie might be, the previews have
aroused my interest in the books, but my budget it
very tight, and I can't afford books that I don't like.
Though I will say I am somewhat easy to please.

I check Amazon.com and what I see seems very favorable.
The Series has a solid 5-Star rating. Here is a quote
from a fan review -

""Susan Cooper's books are the sort that immediately 
cause people to say "But aren't those for kids?"

Technically, yes. So is "The Hobbit," for that matter.
And Susan Cooper's "Dark is Rising Sequence" has 
joined the elite shelf of timeless books that are 
technically for kids, but not necessarily JUST for kids.
With her use of myth and folklore, rich language, and a
time-spanning battle between good and evil, Cooper 
spins up a rare tale in her majestic prose. ""

And it goes on like that for many paragraphs.

Book do like -

"Harry Potter" (who knew)
"The Inheritance Trilogy" (Eragon/Eldest/?next)
"The Bartimaeus Trilogy"
"Artimus Fowl" (first 5=excellent, 6th=good)
"Enders Game" (brilliant story and very good follow 
up series. Three additional books to complete the
series)
"Ender Shadow" (equally good story, and equally good
series. Three additional books to complete the series.)
"The Book of Lost Things" (excellent but confusing 
book. Difficult to describe. A blend of light 
childhood fairytale and grim adult reality. Still
highly recommended.)
"The Giver/Gathering Blue/ Messenger" (very much kids
books, and to some extent written /down/ to kids.
Simple but actually very intriguing series.)
"The Boy from the Basement" (again a grim but 
fascinating tale written for kids. Still worth a 
casual read.)


I notice I can by the FIVE book 'The Dark is Rising'
series in a boxed paperback set for only $20 at
Amazon. I'm tempted to buy a copy for myself and my
nephew, but again, can't afford to waste money on
my limited income.

Any thoughts or comments.

Steve/bboyminn




From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 19:54:17 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:54:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fcele6+4nfu@eGroups.com>
References: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <fcele6+4nfu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709141254t3f969045ud14fa4616174b51b@mail.gmail.com>

>
> bboyminn:
>
> Well, it is a 'chaise', from the French meaning Chair,
> that you lounge in. Also known as a 'lounge chair'.
>
> Also, note that 'longue' doesn't seem to be a word, at
> least it's not in the two dictionaries I consulted.
>
> **In addition, I just consulted my 4 inch thick Library
> dictionary and Dictionary.com, neither lists 'longue'
> as a word.
>

montims:
ah - see, that's why French words should be looked up in French
dictionaries, not American ones!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 20:27:05 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:27:05 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcengl+1ufa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fceqqp+3g3i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Since people are discussing the "Dark is Rising' Series,
> and some seem to view it favorably, I would like those
> in the group who are familiar with it, to give me an
> honest assessment of it.
> 
> Bad as you think the movie might be, the previews have
> aroused my interest in the books, but my budget it
> very tight, and I can't afford books that I don't like.
> Though I will say I am somewhat easy to please.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Hee, not sure what you mean by honest assesment of it. To me, unless 
we are in realm of bad fanfiction, it is hard to evaluate the good 
quality writing objectively.

I love those books, I adore Will and so many others, even though he 
is indeed as Magpie mentioned different from Harry Potter.

When I started to read those books, I could not put them down till I 
stopped.

Come to think of it though, I am not sure if you will like them, 
since you found Lord of the Rings to be boring book.

NO, it is not LOTR like book at all, if that makes sense, it has a 
lot of action in it, but to me ( and maybe other people who read the 
series will disagree with it), the books, the language of it had a 
**feel** of LOTR.

When I read both books ( or series) I had a feeling that I can sing 
the books out loud sometimes, so poetic I found the language in them.

Alla




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 14 21:35:33 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:35:33 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fceqqp+3g3i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fceur5+kc12@eGroups.com>

> > Since people are discussing the "Dark is Rising' Series,
> > and some seem to view it favorably, I would like those
> > in the group who are familiar with it, to give me an
> > honest assessment of it.
> > 
> > Bad as you think the movie might be, the previews have
> > aroused my interest in the books, but my budget it
> > very tight, and I can't afford books that I don't like.
> > Though I will say I am somewhat easy to please.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hee, not sure what you mean by honest assesment of it. To me, 
unless 
> we are in realm of bad fanfiction, it is hard to evaluate the good 
> quality writing objectively.
> 
> I love those books, I adore Will and so many others, even though 
he 
> is indeed as Magpie mentioned different from Harry Potter.
> 
> When I started to read those books, I could not put them down till 
I 
> stopped.
> 
> Come to think of it though, I am not sure if you will like them, 
> since you found Lord of the Rings to be boring book.
> 
> NO, it is not LOTR like book at all, if that makes sense, it has a 
> lot of action in it, but to me ( and maybe other people who read 
the 
> series will disagree with it), the books, the language of it had a 
> **feel** of LOTR.
> 
> When I read both books ( or series) I had a feeling that I can 
sing 
> the books out loud sometimes, so poetic I found the language in 
them.

Magpie:
Yes, I agree with Alla. I was 11 when I first discovered them, so I 
can only say I adored them then and continued to do so--I still 
reread them and have them all in one book.

But 5 books is a big investment to make straight off. I'd try to 
read The Dark Is Rising (the second book) and see how you like it 
before shelling out for the whole series for yourself. 

-m





From krussell98 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 14 22:25:43 2007
From: krussell98 at comcast.net (Kathi)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:25:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcengl+1ufa@eGroups.com>
References: <fcengl+1ufa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <0bc601c7f71e$3084af30$6501a8c0@Dude>

 
 
  _____  

From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 3:30 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
 
Since people are discussing the "Dark is Rising' Series,
and some seem to view it favorably, I would like those
in the group who are familiar with it, to give me an
honest assessment of it.

Bad as you think the movie might be, the previews have
aroused my interest in the books, but my budget it
very tight, and I can't afford books that I don't like.
Though I will say I am somewhat easy to please.

<snip>

I notice I can by the FIVE book 'The Dark is Rising'
series in a boxed paperback set for only $20 at
Amazon. I'm tempted to buy a copy for myself and my
nephew, but again, can't afford to waste money on
my limited income.

Any thoughts or comments.

Steve/bboyminn
Kathi Now:
Steve, why don't you borrow them from the library? That way you'll know if
you want to add them to your permanent library or not :-). We love the
library - it's free, and free is always good :-)
Kathi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jlnbtr at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 00:22:06 2007
From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:22:06 -0000
Subject: HP Lexicon
Message-ID: <fcf8je+n49e@eGroups.com>

Does anyone know if there's something wrong with The Lexicon? I've been 
trying to access it and I get error messages

Juli




From bhobbs36 at verizon.net  Sat Sep 15 00:51:34 2007
From: bhobbs36 at verizon.net (Belinda)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:51:34 -0000
Subject: HP Lexicon
In-Reply-To: <fcf8je+n49e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcfaam+8ko6@eGroups.com>

Yes, we're having server troubles at the moment.
We're frantic about it, and hope it won't last much longer!
Belinda
HP Lexicon editor


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jlnbtr" <jlnbtr at ...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there's something wrong with The Lexicon? I've 
been 
> trying to access it and I get error messages
> 
> Juli
>





From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 04:51:13 2007
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:51:13 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fccijj+1d8r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcfoc1+3a3s@eGroups.com>

Carol:
> Carol, now needing some sort of mnemonic device so she won't forget
> "solecism" again

Petra:
Nah...just use the reverse dictionary at 

http://onelook.com/reverse-dictionary.shtml

Inputting "grammar error" as concept would bring up "solecism" 
as #1 among hundreds of other possibilities for the word you 
were trying to find.

Hmm...the older I get, the more I use this site!

Petra
a
n  :)




From zanelupin at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 05:11:45 2007
From: zanelupin at yahoo.com (KathyK)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:11:45 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcfoc1+3a3s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcfpih+bq7e@eGroups.com>

Petra:
> Nah...just use the reverse dictionary at 
> 
> http://onelook.com/reverse-dictionary.shtml

KathyK:

Haha!  I found out OneLook had this feature five minutes before
reading your post, Petra.  I am so very excited about the reverse
dictionary. 

Also, thanks to everyone posting to the pronunciation thread.  It's
all very interesting!




From lavaluvn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 06:45:05 2007
From: lavaluvn at yahoo.com (Andromeda)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:45:05 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <0bc601c7f71e$3084af30$6501a8c0@Dude>
Message-ID: <fcfv1h+kq8m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathi" <krussell98 at ...> 
wrote:
>
>  
>
> 
> > [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 3:30 PM
> To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment 
Required
>  
> Since people are discussing the "Dark is Rising' Series,
> and some seem to view it favorably, I would like those
> in the group who are familiar with it, to give me an
> honest assessment of it.
> 
> Bad as you think the movie might be, the previews have
> aroused my interest in the books, but my budget it
> very tight, and I can't afford books that I don't like.
> Though I will say I am somewhat easy to please.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I notice I can by the FIVE book 'The Dark is Rising'
> series in a boxed paperback set for only $20 at
> Amazon. I'm tempted to buy a copy for myself and my
> nephew, but again, can't afford to waste money on
> my limited income.
> 
> Any thoughts or comments.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
> Kathi :
> Steve, why don't you borrow them from the library? That way you'll 
know if
> you want to add them to your permanent library or not :-). We love 
the
> library - it's free, and free is always good :-)
> Kathi
> 
Andromeda now:
 They are wonderful books!  I would get them out of the library and 
read them every Christmas starting when I was 10 or so.  Now I've 
bought them all for my own children to read.  And I do still read 
them myself now and then. You can find them used, too.  

But this is terrible news about the film. To have a movie version of 
one of my all-time childhood favorites and have them completely 
destroy it...  better not to do it all.  American? Cold, bullying 
family? Ack! I mean, the whole reason I'd read it at Christmas.... 
oooo!
 I suppose if it gets folks interested in the books, I shouldn't 
complain too much.  I had heard a while back that the film company 
that bought the rights to "Dark is Rising" leans evangelical 
Christian, and the book does not.  Maybe they're wrecking it 
deliberately.  Or maybe it's just crass commercialism.  OK, I'm a 
little bitter.  I would've thought that HP and Narnia showed that 
American audiences will (gasp) go see a movie starring British people.


But thanks for the warning, everyone.  Maybe I'll give "Golden 
Compass" a try instead. Liked the book.

Sigh,
Andromeda






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 07:18:10 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 07:18:10 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcfv1h+kq8m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcg0vi+h64v@eGroups.com>

---  "Andromeda" <lavaluvn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Kathi" <krussell98@> wrote:
> 
> > Kathi :
> > Steve, why don't you borrow them from the library?
> > That way you'll know if you want to add them to 
> > your permanent library or not :-). We love 
> > the library - it's free, and free is always good :-)
> > Kathi
> > 
> Andromeda now:
> They are wonderful books!  I would get them out of 
> the library and read them every Christmas starting 
> when I was 10 or so.  Now I've bought them all for 
> my own children to read.  And I do still read 
> them myself now and then. You can find them used, too.  
> 
> ...
> 
> Sigh,
> Andromeda
>


bboyminn:

Thanks to everyone. I decided I will try to find
'Dark Is Rising' in the Library, though our local
library is very small. Still they have lending 
agreements with other libraries, so maybe I can
get it that way.

Just one note of curiosity. Do I understand correctly
that this series has a chronological order, but that
they were not written in that order? Do you see 
what I mean here?

It is always difficult to tell how good true
children's books are going to be. Sometime they
are so written 'down' that you really can't 
stand them. Other times they are just simple
books that may be interesting but not necessarily
challenging to adults. Other times you find a
real gem; a treasure of a books. 

'Children of the Lamp' was that way for me. The
books were so overly simplified and kid-ified, 
that I really couldn't get into them. It was 
interesting enough that I read through the one
book I have, but have little interest in reading
the rest of the series or re-reading that one book. 

I read one of the 'Alex Rider' Series, and found it
terribly predictable and cliche. It held my attention
but no interest in reading more of them.

Now Artimus Fowl, on the other hand, while an easy
uncomplicated read, is still a brilliant mystery
that I can't stop reading. It is an odd combination
of childish sillyness (though delightful) and 
suspenseful mystery. 

'The Thief Lord' is also a very good book, an easy
read, but still an interesting story and a well
realized world. It is a somewhat simple book, but
captivating and charming none the less. 

The best part of a lot of these books is that they
are out in paperback and can be had for $6 or $7.
If you find a good book, you simply can't find
better entertainment value for your money. Hours
of fun for the price of a trip to McDonalds. 

Still, I'm in a small town, so source of a range
of books is limited, but occasionally I do find
a gem.

For those interested, I highly recommend 'Enders
Game' and 'Enders Shadow' as well as 'Artimus
Fowl' to anyone and everyone.

Steve/bboyminn





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 11:44:49 2007
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:44:49 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcfoc1+3a3s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcggjh+k25l@eGroups.com>


> Petra:
> Nah...just use the reverse dictionary at 
> 
> http://onelook.com/reverse-dictionary.shtml
[...]
> 
> Hmm...the older I get, the more I use this site!
> 
> Petra
> a
> n  :)
>

Woot!  *sends flowers, chocolates, teddy bears, whatever*

It's like having literary alzheimer's; I *know* I know the word, but 
danged if I can bring it to mind!

Annemehr





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Sep 15 13:18:27 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:18:27 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcfoc1+3a3s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcgm33+683q@eGroups.com>

 
> Petra:
> Nah...just use the reverse dictionary at 
> 
> http://onelook.com/reverse-dictionary.shtml
> 


Potioncat:
Uh oh. This could be bad. I read over the examples and clicked a few 
of the samples. Over a hundred words for each and some of them had me 
scratching my head and saying something like, "What the heck does 
Hellshound have to do with Barrel maker?"

I thought Francis Beaufort must have been the Prince who was drowned 
in a barrel of ale, but rather he was involved with the Navy. (Didn't 
find the connection.)

It's the sort of thing that could keep me occupied for hours! 

Most certainly there's a HP connection to the site. The first word I 
looked at from the samples was barrel maker---and of course hogshead 
was one the 100 words. The second word was museum guide and 
Bloomsbury came up.

I've bookmarked the site. It's going to be useful and entertaining.




From jlnbtr at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 16:25:48 2007
From: jlnbtr at yahoo.com (jlnbtr)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:25:48 -0000
Subject: HP Lexicon
In-Reply-To: <fcfaam+8ko6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fch12c+7n1p@eGroups.com>

Thanks Belinda!! I hope your server revives sometime soon. The Lexicon 
is the best HP site, ever

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Belinda" <bhobbs36 at ...> wrote:
>
> Yes, we're having server troubles at the moment.
> We're frantic about it, and hope it won't last much longer!
> Belinda
> HP Lexicon editor
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jlnbtr" <jlnbtr@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know if there's something wrong with The Lexicon? I've 
> been 
> > trying to access it and I get error messages
> > 
> > Juli
> >
>





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 15 18:16:34 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:16:34 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcg0vi+h64v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fch7i2+fgdt@eGroups.com>

> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Thanks to everyone. I decided I will try to find
> 'Dark Is Rising' in the Library, though our local
> library is very small. Still they have lending 
> agreements with other libraries, so maybe I can
> get it that way.
> 
> Just one note of curiosity. Do I understand correctly
> that this series has a chronological order, but that
> they were not written in that order? Do you see 
> what I mean here?

Magpie:
These were written in the same order they take place. The first book 
was written much earlier and has a different tone than the next four. 
In order they go:

Over Sea, Under Stone
The Dark Is Rising (this is the one getting mauled by the movies)
Greenwitch
The Grey King
Silver on the Tree

OSUS takes place before TDiR but you can read either one first 
because they introduce different groups of people with one character 
appearing in both). 

-m




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 15 18:24:47 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:24:47 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709131851v1f4d0ecct959df217405db9a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fch81f+aklb@eGroups.com>

> > bboyminn:
> >
> > I'm thinking of pseudo-words like - using your example -
> > 'applicatorization or 'applierize'. People in business
> > are alway doing this. One place I worked used the term
> > 'levelize' all the time, I never bothered to find out
> > what it means.
> >
> > In case you didn't know 'levelizing' is the process of
> > 'levelization'.
> >
> > I can't really think of any common real-life examples,
> > I do make an effort to forget them when I hear them.

> montims:
> burglarize... hospitalize...  in my office they diarize 
appointments...
> Ick.

Magpie:
I've never heard "diarize" but burglarize and hospitalize are both 
words I've heard my whole life and sound completely normal to me. (As 
does "hospitalization" though I've never heard burglarization.) And 
of course the 40s classic "moiderize" as in "I'll moiderize ya!"

-m





From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 19:15:36 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:15:36 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fccu3n+ppp0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchb0o+4gge@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Magpie:
> <SNIP>
>  Oh, and I think 
> > the Walker is now young and attractive and falls in love with 
> Maggie. 
> > There's also a scene at a mall. Um, yeah. A mall.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> HAHAHAHAHHAH. Keep them coming - the changes I mean. I thought it 
> cannot be topped, but this is the funniest one in the most idiotic 
way.
>

marion11111:
You obviously haven't seen the trailer yet.  Well first, go mix 
yourself a good stiff drink.  Drink it.  Now mix and drink another.  
Now, with third drink in hand, go and watch the trailer.  Yes, they 
are descending an escalator in a mall.  His brother is teasing him 
about puberty. He is next in a grey cell with uniformed men accusing 
him of shoplifting.  Whaa-aaa-aaat?

I saw this at OotP and didn't guess the movie until they showed the 
title at the end.





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sat Sep 15 19:50:58 2007
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:50:58 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcg0vi+h64v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchd32+6k0j@eGroups.com>


> bboyminn:
> 
> Thanks to everyone. I decided I will try to find
> 'Dark Is Rising' in the Library, though our local
> library is very small. Still they have lending 
> agreements with other libraries, so maybe I can
> get it that way.

Pippin:
Happy reading! I just wanted to add my endorsement
as someone who first read these books as an adult,
lo these many years ago, and couldn't wait for the next 
ones to come out.

The Grey King won a Newberry Award, so I don't
think you'll have  trouble finding them  at
the library. 

Pippin




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 19:52:03 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:52:03 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcg0vi+h64v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchd53+amjk@eGroups.com>

> bboyminn:
> Just one note of curiosity. Do I understand correctly
> that this series has a chronological order, but that
> they were not written in that order? Do you see 
> what I mean here?
> 
> It is always difficult to tell how good true
> children's books are going to be. Sometime they
> are so written 'down' that you really can't 
> stand them. 

> Now Artimus Fowl, on the other hand, while an easy
> uncomplicated read, is still a brilliant mystery
> that I can't stop reading. It is an odd combination
> of childish sillyness (though delightful) and 
> suspenseful mystery. 
> 


marion11111:
These were written chronologically.  It's not like Narnia which I 
think should be read as written, but is now numbered differently. 
Magpie listed the correct order and she's right in saying book 
number one is really not representative of the series.  In fact, I 
would recommend starting with Dark is Rising. Over sea, Under Stone 
is a little less appealing to most readers. There are two separate 
storylines that come together later on, so the order of the first 
two books don't matter. 

I first read these as a teen-ager and couldn't even find Over Sea 
Under Stone at any library.  It was published ten years earlier and 
didn't do well in the U.S.  When I finally found it as an adult I 
loved the way it introduced the story in such an old-
fashioned "Famous Five" style.  It's got such a deep, dark theme and 
to have it buried in a seaside adventure for three kids and a dog 
was amazing.  But, having said that, it might not work so well as a 
first read.

Steve - I also love Artemus Fowl! For awhile I was concerned about 
the story bogging down, but the last one has me on the edge of my 
seat waiting for the next. When these first came out there were 
rumors of a movie, but nothing ever came of it.  Just as well.

Another kid fantasy series I recommend is Gregor the Overlander.  
The Underland world is richly drawn and unexpected in so many ways.  
The main character is only twelve which makes it impossible to get 
anybody to read these.  Kids won't read "down." Yet, the story is 
really high fantasy with complex characters and should appeal to 
much older teens.  I don't know what authors are thinking sometimes.

Finally, my new favorite series.  Percy Jackson.  Our hero's father 
left when he was a baby.  His mother raised him on her own.  He 
seems "different," has trouble in school and starts to notice odd 
people around him at school.  Well, dad was Poseidon and yes, the 
gods are still coming to earth and having babies with mortals.  All 
the children of gods and goddesses are brought together when they 
are young teens and told the truth and our hero and his friends (and 
enemies) end up on various dangerous quests during the summer and 
winter holidays.  This is a fun series with references to mythology 
and yet completely modern and believable teens.

OK, this librarian is done booktalking now.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 21:15:50 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:15:50 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fchb0o+4gge@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchi26+ddbh@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> You obviously haven't seen the trailer yet.  Well first, go mix 
> yourself a good stiff drink.  Drink it.  Now mix and drink another.  
> Now, with third drink in hand, go and watch the trailer.  Yes, they 
> are descending an escalator in a mall.  His brother is teasing him 
> about puberty. He is next in a grey cell with uniformed men accusing 
> him of shoplifting.  Whaa-aaa-aaat?
> 
> I saw this at OotP and didn't guess the movie until they showed the 
> title at the end.
>


Alla:

:: Faints::

I still cannot get over Walker being young and attractive and falling 
in love with Maggie.

And apparently it is indeed true, since he is being played by Jonathan 
Jackson.

Will in the mall... I only have one rhetorical question left. Why is 
he still being called Will Stanton?

And yeah, I would not have guessed the book either  :(




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 21:36:49 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:36:49 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fchi26+ddbh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchj9h+b4nq@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> 
> Will in the mall... I only have one rhetorical question left. Why is 
> he still being called Will Stanton?
> 
> And yeah, I would not have guessed the book either  :(
>

marion11111:
This makes me think of I Know What you Did Last Summer.  The author, 
Lois Duncan, wrote a long letter on her website stating her 
frustration with the movie version.  It seems that when she signed 
away the movie rights, she *really* signed them away.

The only thing that stayed the same in that movie is the title and the 
names of the four main characters.  They changed locations, ages, time 
of year, who got killed, how they got killed, why they got killed, how 
people reacted, and what happened after.  Oh, and they added a 
fisherman in foul weather gear with a hook.  I love to tell my 
students that I've both read the book and seen the movie and I will 
know by their book report whether they read or watched.

Let's hope there are no hook-handed fishermen in Dark is Rising.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 21:58:02 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:58:02 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fcfv1h+kq8m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchkha+h4bo@eGroups.com>

> Andromeda now:
>  They are wonderful books!  I would get them out of the library 
and 
> read them every Christmas starting when I was 10 or so.  Now I've 
> bought them all for my own children to read.  And I do still read 
> them myself now and then. You can find them used, too.  
> 
> But this is terrible news about the film. To have a movie version 
of 
> one of my all-time childhood favorites and have them completely 
> destroy it...  better not to do it all.  American? Cold, bullying 
> family? Ack! I mean, the whole reason I'd read it at Christmas.... 
> oooo!
>  I suppose if it gets folks interested in the books, I shouldn't 
> complain too much.  I had heard a while back that the film company 
> that bought the rights to "Dark is Rising" leans evangelical 
> Christian, and the book does not.  Maybe they're wrecking it 
> deliberately.  Or maybe it's just crass commercialism.  OK, I'm a 
> little bitter.  I would've thought that HP and Narnia showed that 
> American audiences will (gasp) go see a movie starring British 
people.
> 
> 
> But thanks for the warning, everyone.  Maybe I'll give "Golden 
> Compass" a try instead. Liked the book.
> 
> Sigh,
> Andromeda
>


Alla:

I **hope** not. I hope that they would not deliberately destroy a 
story that is not christian allegory, because that I would find just 
despicable.


And, and, and those are such loving books, I mean they are. I 
shudder to think that somebody could think that the books as they 
written would not carry christian message or something.

So, yeah, I prefer to think that it is just commercialism, not that 
it makes me feel much better, but somehow it makes me just bitter, 
not disgusted.

As to making folks interested in the books with the help of movie, 
well SURE plenty of folks got interested in HP after they saw movies.

But the thing is what if folks will find the movie so horrible that 
they won't even bother.

Nah, I am afraid even that reason would not make me less upset.

I guess if folks will be entertained by a movie on its own merits, 
maybe they will pick up the books, but oh boy will they be surprised.

And I am sure the movie **COULD** be entertaining on its own, it is 
just not the story of the Dark is rising to me, not even close  :(




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 22:18:38 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:18:38 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fchd53+amjk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fchlnu+ugoh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "marion11111"
<marion11111 at ...> wrote:
>
> > bboyminn:
> > ...
> 
> > Now Artimus Fowl, on the other hand, while an easy
> > uncomplicated read, is still a brilliant mystery
> > that I can't stop reading. It is an odd combination
> > of childish sillyness (though delightful) and 
> > suspenseful mystery. 
> > 
> 
> 
> marion11111:
> ...
> 
> Steve - I also love Artemus Fowl! For awhile I was 
> concerned about the story bogging down, but the last
> one has me on the edge of my seat waiting for the 
> next. When these first came out there were rumors of
> a movie, but nothing ever came of it.  Just as well.
> 
> ...

bboyminn:

Marion, thanks for the other book suggestions, I'll
check them out.

I DID love the last Artemus Fowl book 'The Lost Colony'
but I think the author is running into a problem, 
Artemus is getting too old. Being an obnoxious genius
is cute when you are 12 but not so much when you are
18. I got the sense that the author had to compromise
some of the details to keep Artemus from getting too
old to fast. But beyond those subtle little details
'The Lost Colony' is a fantastic adventure; right up 
there with the other books. Though, I find 'Arctic
Incident' and 'The Eternity Cube' to be at the top of
my list.

One problem I have is describing these books to 
people in an attempt to get them to read them. How
do I describe the silly whimsy of characters like
Holly Short and Mulch Diggums but at the same time
convey what wonderful mysterious adventures these
stories are? Also, while the reader may view 
characters like Holly, Mulch, and Foaly as whimsical,
they take themselves dead serious. 

The Artemus Fowl books are an easy read, so in that
sense they are children's books, but again they have
wonderful characters, a fully realized world, and
a great adventurous story, plus a wonderful 
playfulness and silliness that are bound to make
anyone smile.

Another book by the same Author - Eoin Colfer - is
also a wonderful story that is a combination
of whimsy and adventure; the book 'Half-Moon
Investigations'. This is a gritty detective novel
that revolves around a real mystery that hides an
even deep and greater mystery. The problem is that
the gritty detective is Fletcher Moon, age 12, the
world's youngest certified detective.

I like the Artemus Fowl books better, but 'Half-Moon'
is still a great fun book to read. 

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn




From lavaluvn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 04:04:50 2007
From: lavaluvn at yahoo.com (Andromeda)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:04:50 -0000
Subject: "The Dark is Rising" - Honest Assessment Required
In-Reply-To: <fchkha+h4bo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcia12+538b@eGroups.com>

> 
> Alla despaired:
> 
> I **hope** not. I hope that they would not deliberately destroy a 
> story that is not christian allegory, because that I would find 
just 
> despicable.
> 
> 
> And, and, and those are such loving books, I mean they are. I 
> shudder to think that somebody could think that the books as they 
> written would not carry christian message or something.
> 
> So, yeah, I prefer to think that it is just commercialism, not that 
> it makes me feel much better, but somehow it makes me just bitter, 
> not disgusted.
> 
> As to making folks interested in the books with the help of movie, 
> well SURE plenty of folks got interested in HP after they saw 
movies.
> 
> But the thing is what if folks will find the movie so horrible that 
> they won't even bother.
> 
> Nah, I am afraid even that reason would not make me less upset.
> 
> I guess if folks will be entertained by a movie on its own merits, 
> maybe they will pick up the books, but oh boy will they be 
surprised.
> 
> And I am sure the movie **COULD** be entertaining on its own, it is 
> just not the story of the Dark is rising to me, not even close  :(
>

Andromeda now:

 I'm with you.  I tried watching the TV adaptation of Ursula 
LeGuin's "Earthsea" books (another book series everyone should read), 
which seemed so promising.  I think it was the same group (SciFi 
channel?) that did great versions of "Dune" and "Children of Dune".  
But I couldn't even finish watching it... by the end I kept wondering 
what the heck books they were trying to adapt.  Sounds like this 
could be even worse.

NOte to Steve:  The Dark is Rising books are timeless, don't worry, 
but I recommend starting with "The Dark is Rising", then "Over Sea 
Under Stone." The rest need to be read in order.  OSUS is a simpler 
book than the rest and not really representative of the main story 
arc. But definitely a classic.  The only problem with these books is 
they are over too quickly and you feel a little sense of loss when 
they're done.

Enjoy!







From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 04:10:58 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:10:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Pronunciation of Sirius
In-Reply-To: <fc88mb+k1ss@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <453228.52286.qm@web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I don't know, but we named out new Lab puppy Sirius Black and we pronounce it more like Seh-rius, with the "i" as in "hit". It is the way I have always pronounced the Dog Star's name. Who knows.
   
  Alex Hogan

"Marti L." <marti.lewis at gmail.com> wrote:
          
Hi everyone. I just joined this group yesterday and saw some notes
about Sirius and that it should have a short "i" sound after the first
letter S. Someone here was going to watch HP Prisoner movie again to
check.

I was listening to Stephen Fry on the British audiobook (HPHBP #6) on
the way home from work last night, and he says it just the way we say
"serious" -- long e sound for both of the i's, as in C (cee), seek,
sleet, see. It came up in an Chapter 4 when Harry meets Horace Slughorn
and HS brings up the fact that Sirius is dead.

I'm American (northeast) and had never heard of the short "i"
pronunciation, but when I read the posts here, I figured it was from one
of the English accents. Now that I've heard Stephen Fry say Sirius with
the long ee sound, I don't think it is.

Marti



         

       
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 04:19:22 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:19:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fc3bcv+h36k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <445616.54021.qm@web53009.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The lovely Southern speech patterns of Julia from "Desiging Women"...now That is how a classy Southern Belle should sound. 
  I was born in West Texas and have lived in Texas most of my life. It boggles the mind how many different types of "twang" one can hear just in Odessa! And the difference between West Texas and East Texas is amazing!
   
  Alex Hogan

potioncat <willsonkmom at msn.com> wrote:
          Alex wrote:
He is fine with everything that I do as long as " they don't sound 
like Yankees"! How funny is that? I was raised in West Texas and I 
refuse to sound like a hick.

Potioncat:
You aren't a born Southerner are you? ;-) To a Southerner, the 
Yankee accent sounds harsh and even rude. 

Although, as Barbara pointed out in another post, there are many 
different Southern accents and I think the refined Southern accent is 
lovely. I can't stand the twangy one. Although I'm sure I must have 
spoken it myself at one time. (So I do agree with teaching children 
to speak more properly.)

Alex:
> I truly don't understand embracing a pattern of speech that 
automaticly brands you as unintelligent! Right or wrong, that is what 
people think of the Southern accent. Well, not the accent itself, but 
it is usually associated with terrible grammar, therefore, people 
think "hick", "white trailer trash", "Jerry Springer rejects", etc... 
> It is sad when people perpetuate the stereotype.

Potioncat:
So, is it wrong to hold to the accent or wrong to judge it? I think 
many people, whatever their regional dialect/accent cling to it out 
of pride. Just as many people in the US speak a different language at 
home. 

My husband is from NJ and I am from SC. Both of us have relatives who 
have very strong regional accents. I once heard one of my children 
say "yoose guys" and "ya'll" in the same conversation.

But of course, I would never!

Ya'll come back now. Heah?



                         

       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 08:44:59 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:44:59 -0000
Subject: Pronunciation of Sirius
In-Reply-To: <453228.52286.qm@web53010.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fciqeb+bvrl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alex Hogan <predigirl1 at ...> wrote:
>
> I don't know, but we named out new Lab puppy Sirius Black and we pronounce it more like 
Seh-rius, with the "i" as in "hit". It is the way I have always pronounced the Dog Star's name. 
Who knows.
>    
>   Alex Hogan

Geoff:
But you wouldn't pronounce a short 'i' as in 'hit' like 'eh' surely? To me, 
that indicates a sound like the vowel in 'day'.....

By the by, I nearly didn't see your message and thought someone had 
sent a duplicate because the '<' chevrons were missing from the earlier 
post and your message was top-posted. Have you got a quirky mail 
messenger?




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 08:48:09 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:48:09 -0000
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fch81f+aklb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fciqk9+sdr5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:

> Magpie:
> I've never heard "diarize" but burglarize and hospitalize are both 
> words I've heard my whole life and sound completely normal to me. (As 
> does "hospitalization" though I've never heard burglarization.) And 
> of course the 40s classic "moiderize" as in "I'll moiderize ya!"

Geoff:
The only word in this lot which is famliiar to me as a UK English 
speaker is 'hospitalise' which has been around a long time.

I am surprised by 'burglarise'. What's the matter with the good old
 verb 'burgle'? It's much easier to write and to say....




From editor at texas.net  Sun Sep 16 14:48:17 2007
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:48:17 -0500
Subject: Southern dialect in Texas
In-Reply-To: <e35fdb08b0c73c5bb101ee0b7685e032@comcast.net>
References: <e35fdb08b0c73c5bb101ee0b7685e032@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B47FB5DA983B4B22AC2511BA829E8D87@AmandaPC>

I've been following this thread sporadically.  I am chiming in on whether
Texan = Southern, and technically, it doesn't, although it used to in east
Texas.

 

Personally, I'm a south Texan (San Antonio), which means I have really no
outstanding discernible accent from the standard stuff you hear from
newscasters (Midwest, largely, if I recall my linguistics correctly).  You
can tell I'm Texan because I say "y'all" and use the double modal (maybe
should, might oughta). And (to my shame) "probly"-I elide the middle "bab"
from the word. I hate that I do that.  You can tell I'm from San Antonio
because I have the usage "ice house," which if you don't understand I won't
waste the bandwidth, but it's a usage peculiar to San Antonio.

 

My point: my honors paper in undergrad English was a phonological survey of
east Texas. I had been intrigued, because all my dialect maps showed the
Southern dialect extending into East Texas.  Now, my grandmother (born in
1900) was from east Texas and was "r-less," and had a wonderful accent, but
other younger people I knew from that area had none. (r-less means "sugar" =
/shugah/, "pepper" = /pepa/, etc.)

 

A friend and I went to four towns arranged east-to-west across the Texas
area that the dialect maps said should be Southern (i.e., r-lessness was the
aspect we were measuring), and interviewed people at grocery stores, saying
we were doing a demographic survey.  And we found almost *no* native
r-lessness. One would assume the associated aspects of the Southern dialect
were also missing, since r-lessness is a characteristic. 

 

I later talked to a linguist who had studied Texas dialects (Guy Bailey),
who told me that the Southern dialect had been dying out in east Texas-dying
out in general, but retreating from there-for years.  He said the dialect
maps were made from interviews conducted in the 50s and 60s, when a large
proportion of people who were contemporaries of my grandmother were still
around; but subsequent generations do not have the dialect. My grandmother's
generation was the last to have it in any significant proportion.  The
dialect maps are a picture of an earlier time.

 

So, there is no significant presence of the Southern dialect in Texas-what
my undergrad project suggested, and confirmed by Dr. Bailey. The dialect
that West Texans have-largely popularized by "Dallas"-isn't Southern per se,
but its own entity with its own characteristics.

 

For what it's worth.

 

~Amanda

 

  _____  

From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Roberts
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:59 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SPAM] [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation
- All and Oil in Texas

 

>I am also a Texan, and I loath the 'southern' method of speaking.

Not sure that I would equate " Texan" and "Southern" speech. I always 
thought that certain accents from the deep South to be refined. Ever 
hear someone from Vicksburg, Miss? It's quite different from a Texas 
Drawl.

Barbara Roberts


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From editor at texas.net  Sun Sep 16 15:00:34 2007
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:00:34 -0500
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com>
References: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com> <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B21D1651B2A54167BACF9C04DE254FDE@AmandaPC>

My least favorites (behind "nu-kyu-lar," which I HATE and lay at Carter's
door)-the ones that make me yell at TV screens and correct total strangers:

 

Real-a-tor. Even *realtors* use this one. READ THE DAMN WORD.

 

HAIR-assment, not ha-RASS-ment. Brits use this one, and increasing numbers
of Americans since it was so often mispronounced during all the Clarence
Thomas hoo-hah.

 

Mildly irritating: JOOL-uh-ree, rather than JEW-el-ree.

 

~Amanda, whose inner editor has been provoked by this thread

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From editor at texas.net  Sun Sep 16 15:03:59 2007
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:03:59 -0500
Subject: Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com> <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com> <8ee758b40709111814t6870c51cxe917b482dd4f11b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7BC207ACAA424C04B84D327388F8BC32@AmandaPC>

montims:
while we're ranting...
How on earth did "chaise longue" become "chaise lounge" in America? At
first, I thought it was just a common seller's spelling error, like the
greengrocer's apostrophe, but I've heard it pronounced as lounge in tv
programmes and furniture commercials. It doesn't even make sense that
way...

Amanda now:

It's a standard linguistic process (I think it's "back formation"?), and
it's what happens when a word is imported from another language. Users don't
recognize the import, so they substitute a word they do know. In this case,
"lounge" made sense-you sit on the thing, after all-so it went through the
linguistic change. It's not to the point where that's the accepted spelling,
but I think it is a common accepted pronunciation.

Similar: the English word "burgle" is a back-formation from the import
"burglar."  English speakers thought it sounded like the words they form
with "-er" as the doer of an activity, and so they figured what burglars
must do is burgle. We say it facetiously with "buttle" for butlers, too.

~Amanda



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From editor at texas.net  Sun Sep 16 15:12:21 2007
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:12:21 -0500
Subject: Fake words--Herb - Now Aluminum
In-Reply-To: <fccinr+s9jh@eGroups.com>
References: <fccdur+nuq9@eGroups.com> <fccinr+s9jh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <02E9D81B0B8B4A16BD6E67B1ABCD9524@AmandaPC>

Can everyone tell I'm cleaning out my inbox?

: )

 

bboyminn:

I'm thinking of pseudo-words like - using your example -
'applicatorization or 'applierize'. People in business
are alway doing this. One place I worked used the term
'levelize' all the time, I never bothered to find out
what it means. 

In case you didn't know 'levelizing' is the process of
'levelization'. 

I can't really think of any common real-life examples,
I do make an effort to forget them when I hear them.

Amanda:

I work for a government contractor, so we have things "impacting" others
(noun as verb) and lots of -ize (my current favorite is "operationalize").

I've noticed one in the Stephen Fry audiobooks, so it must be a British
usage; I can't remember what it was, but it's on the order of "commentate"
for "comment" or "orientate" for "orient." It's insidious-this is what
linguistic change is all about, small usages accumulating over time.

~A



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 16 15:52:19 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:52:19 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <B21D1651B2A54167BACF9C04DE254FDE@AmandaPC>
Message-ID: <fcjjfj+3kfe@eGroups.com>


Geoff:
The only word in this lot which is famliiar to me as a UK English
speaker is 'hospitalise' which has been around a long time.

I am surprised by 'burglarise'. What's the matter with the good old
verb 'burgle'? It's much easier to write and to say....

Magpie:
I couldn't say why that happened, but can only offer that "He's been 
burgled" sounds like like a joke--like something out of a comedy 
sketch where people are pretending to be faux-Dickensian.:-) "His 
house was burglarized" is just, you know, a construction I've always 
heard, though I acknowledge "burgled" as being valid too.

Amanda: 
> HAIR-assment, not ha-RASS-ment. Brits use this one, and increasing 
numbers
> of Americans since it was so often mispronounced during all the 
Clarence
> Thomas hoo-hah.

Magpie:
::shrug:: I've used them both, but am fine with the newer version 
(har-RASS-ment). That one comes more naturally to me, actually, and I 
don't consider it a mispronounciation. According to the dictionary 
Har-RASS-ment is a newer version now more common in America. However, 
if I'm using the older form, I definitely don't say HAIR-assment. 
It's HAR-ass-ment. The "har" being the same "har" as in "Harry," 
which does not rhyme with "hairy" for me.

-m




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 16 16:13:11 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 16 Sep 2007 16:13:11 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/16/2007, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1189959191.22.26262.m48@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 16, 2007
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
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7 pm UK



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From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 16:21:51 2007
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
Message-ID: <703469.8774.qm@web90415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


>> Amanda: 

 >> 
HAIR-assment, not ha-RASS-ment. Brits use this one, and increasing numbers

of Americans since it was so often mispronounced during all the Clarence

Thomas hoo-hah.

> Magpie:

> ::shrug:: I've used them both, but am fine with the newer version 

 (har-RASS-ment) . That one comes more naturally to me, actually, and I 

 don't consider it a mispronounciation. According to the dictionary 

 Har-RASS-ment is a newer version now more common in America. However, 

 if I'm using the older form, I definitely don't say HAIR-assment. 

 It's HAR-ass-ment. The "har" being the same "har" as in "Harry," 

 which does not rhyme with "hairy" for me.

 

Kemper now:
Perhaps the word was mispronounced intentionally to avoid other mispronunciation by the press.
"Harassment, more then Clarence Thomas bargained for."

Could be read and misinterpreted aloud as:
"Her ass meant more then Clarence Thomas bargained for."

Whereas the intentional misreading aloud:
"HAIR-assment, more ..."
Leaves out sexual innuendo.  

Kemper





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
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From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 17:00:29 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:00:29 -0000
Subject: Fake words-- Grandilizated
In-Reply-To: <02E9D81B0B8B4A16BD6E67B1ABCD9524@AmandaPC>
Message-ID: <fcjnfd+cuju@eGroups.com>

---  "Amanda Geist" <editor at ...> wrote:
  
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> I'm thinking of pseudo-words like - using your example
> - 'applicatorization or 'applierize'. People in 
> business are alway doing this.
> 
> Amanda:
> 
> I work for a government contractor, so we have things
> "impacting" others (noun as verb) and lots of -ize 
> (my current favorite is "operationalize").
> 
> ...

bboyminn:

I was listening to testimony before the 9-11 commission
and a committee member asked about the 
'potentialization' of something, when what he really
meant was simply 'potential'. 

This is sort of a form of 'word inflation'. When a
simple word doesn't sound grand enough, you simply
make it more complicated.

So, it's not really word inflation, it's word
inflationalization. 

Ain't life grand, or perhaps, I should say,
ain't life grandilizated. 

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 17:16:49 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:16:49 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <703469.8774.qm@web90415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fcjoe1+5hiq@eGroups.com>

---  kemper mentor <kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> >> Amanda: 
> 
>  >> 
> HAIR-assment, not ha-RASS-ment. Brits use this one,
> and increasing numbers of Americans since it was so
> often mispronounced during all the Clarence
> 
> Thomas hoo-hah.
> 

> 
> Kemper now:
> Perhaps the word was mispronounced intentionally to
> avoid other mispronunciation by the press.
> "Harassment, more then Clarence Thomas bargained for."
> 
> Could be read and misinterpreted aloud as:
> "Her ass meant more then Clarence Thomas bargained for."
> 
> ..
> 
> Kemper

bboyminn:

Hate to be the Grammer Nazi, but I think what you said
is really -

"Harassement, more through the passage of time, Clarence
Thomas bargained for"

First this occurred THEN that occurred.

Rather this item THAN that item.

'Then' always refers to time.

'Than' always refers to objects.

Sorry, it's so rare that I get to play this role that
I just couldn't restrain myself. ;)

Steve/bboyminn




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 16 17:55:04 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 16 Sep 2007 17:55:04 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/16/2007, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1189965304.20.19471.m46@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 16, 2007
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
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Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

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From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 18:34:39 2007
From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:34:39 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fc3bcv+h36k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcjsvv+di1e@eGroups.com>

> Potioncat:

> Ya'll come back now. Heah?

Mike:

Hey PC,

I first heard that phrase on the Beverly Hillbillies theme song. I've 
always assumed it replaced "hear". After this thread, I'm wondering if 
it could have been "here" or if folks didn't really care which way it 
was taken. I've only used the phrase it in jest. Do you know which way 
people that use it for real mean it?

Mike, hear at his keyboard and can't here the difference, so often 
types the wrong word when not paying attention, even though I no there 
is know difference in pronounciation. ;)




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 16 19:16:19 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:16:19 -0000
Subject: Ize (was: Re: Herb - Now Aluminum)
In-Reply-To: <fciqk9+sdr5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcjve3+iq04@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>

> The only word in this lot which is famliiar to me as a UK English 
> speaker is 'hospitalise' which has been around a long time.

And bowdlerize.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 19:32:11 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:32:11 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fcjjfj+3kfe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fck0br+8usa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Geoff:
> The only word in this lot which is famliiar to me as a UK English
> speaker is 'hospitalise' which has been around a long time.
> 
> I am surprised by 'burglarise'. What's the matter with the good old
> verb 'burgle'? It's much easier to write and to say....
> 
> Magpie:
> I couldn't say why that happened, but can only offer that "He's been 
> burgled" sounds like like a joke--like something out of a comedy 
> sketch where people are pretending to be faux-Dickensian.:-) "His 
> house was burglarized" is just, you know, a construction I've always 
> heard, though I acknowledge "burgled" as being valid too.

Geoff:
I don't see why that phrase should sound odd... I had my house broken 
into two years ago and when I said to people, "We came back from 
holiday to find that we had been burgled", no one treated it as funny. 
It's used as a standard word on radio and TV.

'Burglarised' is one of those American words which make me cringe. 
It sounds awkward and cumbersome.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 19:37:45 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:37:45 -0000
Subject: Ize (was: Re: Herb - Now Aluminum)
In-Reply-To: <fcjve3+iq04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fck0m9+97s6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
> <gbannister10@> wrote:
> >
> 
> > The only word in this lot which is famliiar to me as a UK English 
> > speaker is 'hospitalise' which has been around a long time.
> 
> And bowdlerize.

Geoff:
Granted, 'bowdlerise' has been around for a while but it wasn't in the 
list quoted in the post I was reading. 

Don't forget that that is an unusual one because it is formed from 
someone's name, so the ending is probably a requirement. It can go 
in the miscellaneous box along with 'boycott', 'maverick'. 'gerrymander' 
et al.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 19:43:07 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:43:07 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fcjoe1+5hiq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fck10b+uoio@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
 
> > Kemper now:
> > Perhaps the word was mispronounced intentionally to
> > avoid other mispronunciation by the press.
> > "Harassment, more then Clarence Thomas bargained for."
> > 
> > Could be read and misinterpreted aloud as:
> > "Her ass meant more then Clarence Thomas bargained for."
> > 
> > ..
> > 
> > Kemper
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Hate to be the Grammer Nazi, but I think what you said
> is really -
> 
> "Harassement, more through the passage of time, Clarence
> Thomas bargained for"
> 
> First this occurred THEN that occurred.
> 
> Rather this item THAN that item.
> 
> 'Then' always refers to time.
> 
> 'Than' always refers to objects.
> 
> Sorry, it's so rare that I get to play this role that
> I just couldn't restrain myself. ;)
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

Geoff:
On the other hand, the reason why 'then' appeared instead 
of 'than' may be the same as that which caused your 
'Grammer Nazi'.

This was an unfortunate disease I discovered a few years 
ago called 'Tangle Finger Syndrome' (TFS). I suffer from 
frequent attacks.

:-)))





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 16 19:43:39 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:43:39 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fck0br+8usa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fck11b+drru@eGroups.com>

> > Geoff:
> > The only word in this lot which is famliiar to me as a UK English
> > speaker is 'hospitalise' which has been around a long time.
> > 
> > I am surprised by 'burglarise'. What's the matter with the good 
old
> > verb 'burgle'? It's much easier to write and to say....
> > 
> > Magpie:
> > I couldn't say why that happened, but can only offer that "He's 
been 
> > burgled" sounds like like a joke--like something out of a comedy 
> > sketch where people are pretending to be faux-Dickensian.:-) "His 
> > house was burglarized" is just, you know, a construction I've 
always 
> > heard, though I acknowledge "burgled" as being valid too.
> 
> Geoff:
> I don't see why that phrase should sound odd... I had my house 
broken 
> into two years ago and when I said to people, "We came back from 
> holiday to find that we had been burgled", no one treated it as 
funny. 
> It's used as a standard word on radio and TV.
> 
> 'Burglarised' is one of those American words which make me cringe. 
> It sounds awkward and cumbersome.

Magpie:
Of course--that's why it's regional. One said completely normal to 
you, while the other is cumbersome. One sounds normal to me while the 
other seems funny or twee or something. I've never heard the 
word "burgled" on US TV or radio that I came remember. In that 
situation I'd probably say, "Our house was broken into while we were 
on vacation."

Most more importantly--I'm sorry to hear you *were* burgled. That's 
terrible!

-m






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep 16 20:54:17 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:54:17 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fcjsvv+di1e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fck55p+j00a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Potioncat:
> 
> > Ya'll come back now. Heah?
> 
> Mike:
> 
> Hey PC,
> 
> I first heard that phrase on the Beverly Hillbillies theme song. I've 
> always assumed it replaced "hear". 

Hi Mike,
You're right, it's hear. We didn't used to say our 'r's" but after 
reading Amandageits's posts, I'm wondering if that's still true. I do 
hear a difference in the speech when I go home.

I used to have to translate for my children. They couldn't understand 
their Southern grandparents who couldn't understand them either. Of 
course, the kids became teenagers and now no one understands them!




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 16 21:30:05 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:30:05 -0000
Subject: Southern dialect in Texas
In-Reply-To: <B47FB5DA983B4B22AC2511BA829E8D87@AmandaPC>
Message-ID: <fck78t+fd1q@eGroups.com>

"Amanda Geist" <editor at ...> wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/33226>:

<<  I later talked to a linguist who had studied Texas dialects (Guy
Bailey), who told me that the Southern dialect had been dying out in
east Texas - dying out in general, but retreating from there - for
years.  He said the dialect maps were made from interviews conducted
in the 50s and 60s, when a large proportion of people who were
contemporaries of my grandmother were still around; but subsequent
generations do not have the dialect. My grandmother's generation was
the last to have it in any significant proportion.  The dialect maps
are a picture of an earlier time. >>

Are there theories of why the Southern dialect faded from East Texas?
   I suppose all fading of regional dialects is encouraged by
television spreading one dialect nationwide and by people moving from
place to place a lot, but is there a more specific reason for this
more specific fading? Is it connected to the rise of Houston as an
economic and cultural center as New Orleans and Galveston faded as
economic centers?  






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 03:31:55 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 03:31:55 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fck10b+uoio@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcksfb+e4hc@eGroups.com>

--- , "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
>  
> >> Kemper now:
> >> Perhaps the word was mispronounced intentionally
> >> to avoid other mispronunciation by the press.
> >> "Harassment, more then Clarence Thomas bargained
> >> for."
> >> 
> >> Could be read and misinterpreted aloud as:
> >> "Her ass meant more then Clarence Thomas bargained
> >> for."
> > > 
> > > ..
> > > 
> > > Kemper
> > 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > Hate to be the Grammer Nazi, but I think what you
> > said is really -
> > 
> > "Harassement, more through the passage of time, 
> > Clarence Thomas bargained for"
> > 
> > First this occurred THEN that occurred.
> > 
> > Rather this item THAN that item.
> > 
> > 'Then' always refers to time.
> > 
> > 'Than' always refers to objects.
> > 
> > Sorry, it's so rare that I get to play this role
> > that I just couldn't restrain myself. ;)
> > 
> > Steve/bboyminn
> 
> Geoff:
> On the other hand, the reason why 'then' appeared 
> instead of 'than' may be the same as that which 
> caused your 'Grammer Nazi'.
> 
> This was an unfortunate disease I discovered a few
> years ago called 'Tangle Finger Syndrome' (TFS). 
> I suffer from frequent attacks.
> 
> :-)))
>

bboyminn:

Funny, I always called it 'FFS'; Flying Fingers
Syndrome. Fingers flying across the keyboard
in a hurry to get that thought out there before
it fades from my mind.

I to suffer frequent and severe attacks.

Steve/bboyminn




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Sep 17 04:30:08 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:30:08 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <B21D1651B2A54167BACF9C04DE254FDE@AmandaPC>
Message-ID: <000601c7f8e3$6de7a230$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

Okay, here's how to drive me nutses:

Worsh (rather than wash)...unless someone's changed the spelling and I don'
know about it. :-)

Equally bad:
Hightth (instead of Height)

A-crost (rather than Across)

Onced and Twiced (rather than once and twice)

My preacher has some really good ones:
Infirmnity (instead of infirmity)
Conformnity (for conformity)
Pro-pitchiation (rather than propitiation).

An interesting one is how some pronounce the word "parents."  You've got
your choice..."Pah-rents" or "Pair-ents." :-)

I'd better scram before I inadvertently insult someone. :)

Lee (Hiding in the broom cupboard.)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From shagufta_naazpk2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 06:04:35 2007
From: shagufta_naazpk2000 at yahoo.com (shagufta_naazpk2000)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:04:35 -0000
Subject: Letter from JK Rowling
Message-ID: <fcl5dj+lc2f@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone

I'm from Karachi, Pakistan. Harry Potter has many devoted fans in 
this city and like many of them I had pre-booked a copy of the 
Deathly Hallows.

The bookstore I had booked from organized a launch party, 
unfortunatley the event got cancelled at the last mnute due to a 
bomb scare (fact of life if you live in Karachi)

So why am I rambling about it? Because last week the bookshop called 
and told me to collect my letter from JK Rowling.

Apparently she heard about the misfortune and wrote to the Public 
Relations manager of the store - and they gave all the prebookers a 
copy of the letter. 

Pakistan is a very small market for English books, in all of Karachi 
there may be a few thousand Harry Potter fans - out which fewer 
still pre-ordered the book. Out of the millions of fans we don't 
really count for much. 

But still she took the time to write a note and express her sympathy 
and her thanks. I thought that was amazingly sweet of her. I'm 
impressed.

cheers
Shagufta




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 17 06:37:50 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:37:50 -0000
Subject: Thicknesse: Question on Pronunciation - All and Oil in Texas
In-Reply-To: <fck55p+j00a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcl7bu+5shs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78@> wrote:
> >
> > > Potioncat:
> > 
> > > Ya'll come back now. Heah?
> > 
> > Mike:
> > 
> > Hey PC,
> > 
> > I first heard that phrase on the Beverly Hillbillies theme song. I've 
> > always assumed it replaced "hear". 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> You're right, it's hear. We didn't used to say our 'r's" but after 
> reading Amandageits's posts, I'm wondering if that's still true. I do 
> hear a difference in the speech when I go home.
 
> I used to have to translate for my children. They couldn't understand 
> their Southern grandparents who couldn't understand them either. Of 
> course, the kids became teenagers and now no one understands them!

Geoff:
I remember when I first moved to South London from Lancashire at the 
tender age of 9. I had a strong Lancashire accent and several of the 
pupils in the Junior School I went to had Cockney accents,

We talked 'at' eah other for two or three weeks before real communication 
was established!!




From marti.lewis at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 06:23:17 2007
From: marti.lewis at gmail.com (Marti L.)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:23:17 -0000
Subject: Burglarize
Message-ID: <fcl6gl+m6kl@eGroups.com>


Burglarize is a word, and I have used it, because my apartment was
broken into twice during the early 1980s.

See:  http://tinyurl.com/2pvosg <http://tinyurl.com/2pvosg>

It has definitions from different dictionaries.  The first one says that
its origin was American 1870-1875.  This is not new.  I wonder why it is
annoying to anyone (was the original poster about this British,
perhaps?).  The dictionaries include the British spelling:  burglarise.

There are new words out there that were developed recently that I abhor
and strike me as being newspeak to fool the public and/or make an act of
government sound less harmful.

Speaking of accents, I hate hearing the spread of the valley girl
dialect and upspeak.  I heard a lot of upspeak (a statement becomes a
question) years ago when I was going to a university in Greensboro, NC. 
Now I hear the valley girl dialect on the streets of NYC by
20-somethings from all over the country.  Some people outgrow the use of
it.

Marti,
who understands that sometimes people get annoyed by everybody.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 17 06:40:20 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:40:20 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fcksfb+e4hc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcl7gk+203v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> > Geoff:
> > On the other hand, the reason why 'then' appeared 
> > instead of 'than' may be the same as that which 
> > caused your 'Grammer Nazi'.
> > 
> > This was an unfortunate disease I discovered a few
> > years ago called 'Tangle Finger Syndrome' (TFS). 
> > I suffer from frequent attacks.
> > 
> > :-)))
 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Funny, I always called it 'FFS'; Flying Fingers
> Syndrome. Fingers flying across the keyboard
> in a hurry to get that thought out there before
> it fades from my mind.
> 
> I to suffer frequent and severe attacks.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

Geoff:

They come in different strains, like varieties of flu viruses.

Fortunately, they are not usually life-threatening.
:-)





From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 08:51:03 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:51:03 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <000601c7f8e3$6de7a230$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fclf5n+if9q@eGroups.com>

> Lee wrote:

> Okay, here's how to drive me nutses:
<SNIP> 
> Equally bad:
> Hightth (instead of Height)

Goddlefrood:

Best avoid Paradise Lost by Milton then. Heighth is used throughout.

What did they know about spelling in the 17th century though?





From jnferr at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 11:38:27 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:38:27 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Burglarize
In-Reply-To: <fcl6gl+m6kl@eGroups.com>
References: <fcl6gl+m6kl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709170438i32fdc09dk455e298d760b32fc@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/17/07, Marti L. <marti.lewis at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Burglarize is a word, and I have used it, because my apartment was
> broken into twice during the early 1980s.
>
> See:  http://tinyurl.com/2pvosg <http://tinyurl.com/2pvosg>
>
> It has definitions from different dictionaries.  The first one says that
> its origin was American 1870-1875.  This is not new.  I wonder why it is
> annoying to anyone (was the original poster about this British,
> perhaps?).  The dictionaries include the British spelling:  burglarise.


montims:
but again you are looking in an American dictionary.  If a Brit says a word
isn't used in England, it's more useful to consult an English (vs American
English) dictionary.

For example, Chambers shows:
burgle verb (*burgled*, *burgling*) *1* to enter (a building, etc) illegally
and steal from it; to steal from someone or something. *2* *intrans* to
commit burglary. *US equivalent* *burglarize*.
ETYMOLOGY: 19c: a back-formation from
burglar<http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?xref=21C05469&title=21st&query=burglar>
.
burglarize verb (*burglarized*, *burglarizing*) *tr & intr*, *US* to burgle.

ETYMOLOGY: 19c.
Sorry, no entries for *burglarise* were found.

NOBODY in England would say burglarize, unless they were trying to be
mock-American.

Oh and while I'm posting - someone had said that Stephen Fry (bless him) had
pronounced Sirius differently than Brits were saying it is pronounced, and
it was mentioned that he is posh.  I haven't heard the tapes, as I can't
afford them, so cannot confirm or deny his pronunciation, but posh has its
own separate pronunciation - this is not standard, and it is not a way a
normal person can speak, but by and large it is understandable.  For example
the royal family pronouncing ow as eye - hice, trisers, etc...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 17 16:31:18 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:31:18 -0000
Subject: Burglarize
In-Reply-To: <fcl6gl+m6kl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcma4m+fvsl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Marti L." <marti.lewis at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Burglarize is a word, and I have used it, because my apartment was
> broken into twice during the early 1980s.
> 
> See:  http://tinyurl.com/2pvosg <http://tinyurl.com/2pvosg>
> 
> It has definitions from different dictionaries.  The first one says that
> its origin was American 1870-1875.  This is not new.  I wonder why it is
> annoying to anyone (was the original poster about this British,
> perhaps?).  The dictionaries include the British spelling:  burglarise.

Geoff:
My original point, picking up on a list in a previous post, was that I 
had never come across 'burglarise' in UK English. I never implied that it 
wasn't a word. I merely felt that the verb 'burgle' sounds better.....

...to UK ears at least.




From dk59us at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 19:33:42 2007
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:33:42 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fccnvm+sn0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcmkqm+jour@eGroups.com>

<marion11111 at ...> wrote:

> I'm trying to be open-minded since this is the same studio that did 
> Narnia and I thought that was a pretty decent adaptation, but this 
> one really does look awful.

Now Eustace_Scrubb:

I think a lot of people were banking on the fact that Walden Media was
involved and that they had done a pretty decent job with The Lion the
Witch and the Wardrobe.  

Alas for those of us who didn't understand the complexities of movie
production (I sure didn't).  The Narnia movies are being done by
Walden with Walt Disney Pictures as the production company and
distributor, The Movie Formerly Known as The Dark is Rising was
parcelled out to Marc Platt Productions with distribution by 20th
Century Fox.  While Walt Disney (for better or worse) is a known
quantity, Marc Platt Productions is not.  Their most recent previous
credit is the political hatchet-job TV movie "The Path to 9-11" and
they've also got the Legally Blonde movies and the live action version
of "Josie and the Pussycats" to their "credit."  Suffice it to say
that Walden didn't vette their potential for adapting The Dark is
Rising well enough (maybe not at all).  I suppose who Walden decides
to work with on a film depends on their judgement about the financial
potential--I'm sure Marc Platt Productions isn't as expensive to work
with as Disney. And of course a lot of the built-in marketing
potential of Narnia (its Christian content) is not only lacking in the
Dark is Rising, the pre-Christian elements of the books could affront
that part of the audience (not justifiably, in my view, but there you
go...).

As others have pointed out, the casting directors seem to have an
unfortunate obsession with former child stars of American TV (Jonathan
Jackson as the Walker? I don't know who would have worked...Andy
Serkis?...but not Jonathan Jackson! Canadian Gregory Smith of Everwood
as Max...furthermore as a Max who apparently gets in league with the
Dark and follows Will through time?  Yikes.  And I get the feeling
that they want the twins (Paul and Robin) to take their cue from Gred
and Forge, but maybe I'm wrong.

The real shame is that Susan Cooper has an impressive resume as a
screenwriter and unlike Rowling probably could have adapted her own
book with the needs of the screen in mind quite well.  Instead, they
went with the screenwriter who did Trainspotting.  Oh, well.

Surprisingly, I think my 12-year old son, who finished the sequence
over the summer and says OoTP was the worst HP movie because they cut
so much out, still wants to see The Seeker (without any illusions of
its being an "adaptation" of the Dark is Rising).  I'll probably go
to,remembering the old horror-movie tagline as we go in: "Keep
repeating...It's Only a Movie...It's Only a Movie."

Sorry, didn't mean to rant so long.  At least this will make me more
tolerant of Steve Kloves and the various directors of the HP movies.

Cheers,

Eustace_Scrubb




 





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 20:04:56 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:04:56 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcmkqm+jour@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcmml8+kh8e@eGroups.com>

> Now Eustace_Scrubb:
<SNIP of the interesting movie making details>
>> As others have pointed out, the casting directors seem to have an
> unfortunate obsession with former child stars of American TV 
(Jonathan
> Jackson as the Walker? I don't know who would have worked...Andy
> Serkis?...but not Jonathan Jackson! Canadian Gregory Smith of 
Everwood
> as Max...furthermore as a Max who apparently gets in league with the
> Dark and follows Will through time?  Yikes.  And I get the feeling
> that they want the twins (Paul and Robin) to take their cue from 
Gred
> and Forge, but maybe I'm wrong.

Alla:

I already did my fainting over Jonathan Jackson as Walker, but Max as 
in Will's brother Max? He is going to get in league with the Dark? 
One of the Stantons? Sob. I guess it is a short distance to travel 
from brothers who bully Will to traitor brother. Sob, sob.

I want to call this movie "Destruction of the Stantons family"


 
> The real shame is that Susan Cooper has an impressive resume as a
> screenwriter and unlike Rowling probably could have adapted her own
> book with the needs of the screen in mind quite well.  Instead, they
> went with the screenwriter who did Trainspotting.  Oh, well.

Alla:

Shame indeed.

 
> Surprisingly, I think my 12-year old son, who finished the sequence
> over the summer and says OoTP was the worst HP movie because they 
cut
> so much out, still wants to see The Seeker (without any illusions of
> its being an "adaptation" of the Dark is Rising).  I'll probably go
> to,remembering the old horror-movie tagline as we go in: "Keep
> repeating...It's Only a Movie...It's Only a Movie."


Alla:

Good luck to you :)

 
> Sorry, didn't mean to rant so long.  At least this will make me more
> tolerant of Steve Kloves and the various directors of the HP movies.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Eustace_Scrubb
>


Alla:

Oh yeah, I want to call HP movies great adaptations now and I want to 
bow to Peter Jackson for LOTR, I really do.

After all he could, you know, change so many things to make story 
unrecognisable.

And I had a nerve to be annoyed over no Shire at the end.  I mean, I 
loved the movie, but thought it should be there.

Thank you Peter Jackson for not making the movie formerly known as 
LOTR.




From random832 at fastmail.us  Tue Sep 18 00:01:23 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:01:23 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <B21D1651B2A54167BACF9C04DE254FDE@AmandaPC>
References: <fc5d6n+dga1@eGroups.com> <fc6pqb+6vmv@eGroups.com> <B21D1651B2A54167BACF9C04DE254FDE@AmandaPC>
Message-ID: <46EF1553.3070708@fastmail.us>

Amanda Geist wrote:
> My least favorites (behind "nu-kyu-lar," which I HATE and lay at Carter's
> door)-the ones that make me yell at TV screens and correct total strangers:
> 
> Real-a-tor. Even *realtors* use this one. READ THE DAMN WORD.

I-ern for "Iron" - READ THE DAMN WORD. Or don't. It is English, after
all, the language with the most screwed-up spelling system ever. This
kind of change happens in languages ALL THE TIME (most languages apart
from English eventually adapt the spelling to the new pronunciation).
It's not "wrong".




From marti.lewis at gmail.com  Tue Sep 18 01:47:38 2007
From: marti.lewis at gmail.com (Marti L.)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:47:38 -0000
Subject: words
Message-ID: <fcnanq+jd2o@eGroups.com>


Random wrote:

"I-ern for "Iron" - READ THE DAMN WORD. Or don't. It is English, after
all, the language with the most screwed-up spelling system ever. This
kind of change happens in languages ALL THE TIME (most languages apart
from English eventually adapt the spelling to the new pronunciation).
It's not "wrong"."

Marti:

Thank you very much!  Exactly what I've been thinking in better words --
it's not wrong.

Getting back to the izes and ises for burglar, you do know from those
definitions that burgle is a back definition (or whatever someone here
and the dictionaries called it) from the word burglar -- in British
English.

I say to each his own if it's correct.  To each country its own.

What's good enough for Stephen Fry ("posh" English?) is good enough for
me.  It's not cockney or hayseed.

Now I will have to look up posh English.

I never buy the audio books either (too expensive) for the Harry Potter
books, but I've discovered a good internet source for them for free.  I
wouldn't have been able to buy the British version here in the USA.  I
also have some of the Jim Dale version (didn't buy those either) and
could take a listen to how he pronounces Sirius, but since I heard
Stephen Fry's and have never heard Sirius prounced "sir - ee - us" by
anyone except in this group, I'm satisfied with the long e sound for the
first syllable and don't feel the need to.

I recall in grade school when we had something called "phonetics" (many
people call them phonics) and some i's that sounded like ee's to me were
brought up by the teacher for some "i" words.  Then I would say them
with the short i, but if an r followed it sounded like ee anyway.

Marti




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 18 02:52:32 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:52:32 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcmml8+kh8e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcnehg+nreg@eGroups.com>

Alla:

Magpie, shout out to you especially. Read on and you will understand
why. I mean first and foremost because you like Dark and Rising
obviously :)

For example, does anybody who read the series was reminded of
Dumbledore's treatment of Snape in Merriman treatment of Walker.

Magpie:
Actually my answer to this question and the Obliviate question are 
the same--the Light isn't forgiving at all, but that's the point. 
They're not human, they're inhuman and they're kind of fanatics (and 
they're called out as such in the book). What's done to the Walker is 
supposed to be inhuman (I think it's more some sort of Law than 
specifically Merriman).

In TDiR it's an important part of the story that ultimately Dark and 
Light are almost the same, but at the center of one is a pit of 
darkness and at the center of the other is a cold, white flame--
Cooper said she thought it might be in her mind a bit connected to 
the white explosion of the atom bomb. They don't treat people the way 
people should be treated--even when they want to. They have an agenda 
and even if it's ultimately the right one/a good one, that doesn't 
mean they're on peoples' side the way we'd think of the term. 

That's what I loved about it the first time I read it as a kid. That 
whole Walker storyline is totally scary. Although at the same time, 
you know they're only like that when dealing with their own stuff. 
Most of the time dealing with them as people they're like people. I 
mean, they don't use magic on people regularly. But the people they 
do deal with magically are often wary of that side of them.

-m





From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 02:54:02 2007
From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 02:54:02 -0000
Subject: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <46EF1553.3070708@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fcneka+iopk@eGroups.com>


> Amanda Geist wrote:
About double modal

Mike adds:
How about "I'm fixin to get ready to ...". There's one I heard alot 
in my time in the Lone Star state. Double modal with a colloquialism.

> Random832 wrote:
> 
> I-ern for "Iron" - READ THE DAMN WORD. Or don't. It is English, 
> after all, the language with the most screwed-up spelling system
> ever. 
>
> It's not "wrong".

Mike:
>From the on-line American Heritage? Dictionary:
i?ern ---- that's a long "I" and an upside down "e"

No other pronunciation offered. What other way did you have in mind, 
Random?




From random832 at fastmail.us  Tue Sep 18 03:00:16 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:00:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Realators--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fcneka+iopk@eGroups.com>
References: <fcneka+iopk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46EF3F40.1060700@fastmail.us>

>> Random832 wrote:>>
>> I-ern for "Iron" - READ THE DAMN WORD. Or don't. It is English, 
>> after all, the language with the most screwed-up spelling system
>> ever. 
>>
>> It's not "wrong".
> 
> Mike:
> From the on-line American Heritage Dictionary:
> iern ---- that's a long "I" and an upside down "e"
> 
> No other pronunciation offered. What other way did you have in mind, 
> Random?

Random832:

how about i-ron?

My point was, rather, words change. That one did long ago. Some (most of 
them complained about in this thread) are changing today. Who knows what 
words will change tomorrow?



From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 03:14:24 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 03:14:24 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcnehg+nreg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcnfqg+56ar@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> Magpie, shout out to you especially. Read on and you will 
understand
> why. I mean first and foremost because you like Dark and Rising
> obviously :)
> 
> For example, does anybody who read the series was reminded of
> Dumbledore's treatment of Snape in Merriman treatment of Walker.
> 
> Magpie:
> Actually my answer to this question and the Obliviate question are 
> the same--the Light isn't forgiving at all, but that's the point. 
> They're not human, they're inhuman and they're kind of fanatics 
(and 
> they're called out as such in the book). What's done to the Walker 
is 
> supposed to be inhuman (I think it's more some sort of Law than 
> specifically Merriman).
> 
> In TDiR it's an important part of the story that ultimately Dark 
and 
> Light are almost the same, but at the center of one is a pit of 
> darkness and at the center of the other is a cold, white flame--
> Cooper said she thought it might be in her mind a bit connected to 
> the white explosion of the atom bomb. They don't treat people the 
way 
> people should be treated--even when they want to. They have an 
agenda 
> and even if it's ultimately the right one/a good one, that doesn't 
> mean they're on peoples' side the way we'd think of the term. 
> 
> That's what I loved about it the first time I read it as a kid. 
That 
> whole Walker storyline is totally scary. Although at the same 
time, 
> you know they're only like that when dealing with their own stuff. 
> Most of the time dealing with them as people they're like people. 
I 
> mean, they don't use magic on people regularly. But the people 
they 
> do deal with magically are often wary of that side of them.


Alla:

Oh. Very interesting. Do you think though that this was what Susan 
Cooper intended? Meaning, do you think she intended to portray Dark 
and Light as almost the same? Or just as two forces matched in 
strength?

That's what I am wondering indeed, because you see today I finished 
rereading the Dark is rising ( the second book only I mean) and I 
totally get the impression that what was done to Walker was supposed 
to be looked as deserving somehow. I mean, it is, but you get the 
drift - I find it scary.

Isn't the light struggle portrayed as the just one?

Interesting in the wierd way.

Where do you get that was done to Walker was a law? I mean Merryman 
says we did, I guess, so they probably decided together. I do not 
know.

Somehow last time I read the series ( I read them only twice) couple 
years ago, I was more impressed by Merryman supposedly giving Walker 
a choice to rest or something.

I still adore these books, but my mental picture of them is changing.

We shall see what I think when I finish reread.

Alla




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 04:32:12 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:32:12 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40709131849le1d44a2j240f94771b28d4a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcnkcc+bat0@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > Yes, "unvoiced" is right because the voicebox isn't involved in
the pronunciation of an unvoiced "th," only the lips and tongue. It's
like the difference between "t" (unvoiced) and "d" (voiced) or "s"
(unvoiced) and "z" (voiced). You should hear it clearly in "this"
(voiced "th") vs. "thin" (unvoiced "th"). There's no difference
between the "the sounds of "think" and "thin"--unvoiced in both cases.
> > But try saying "the" with an unvoiced "th" as in "thin." Can't be
done, or, at least, can't be done easily. (If you say the voiced "th"
 alone and hold it for awhile, your tongue will vibrate a little.)

> > montims:
 
> thermometer?  thermostat?  Hiawatha?

Carol again:

All unvoiced. A voiced "th" as in "the" would sound absurd in those
words, wouldn't it? Again, it's like the difference between a soft "s"
as in "see" and a "z" as in "zebra." the "s" is unvoiced; the "z" is
voiced.

Carol, wishing that English had maintained the Anglo-Saxon distinction
between "eth" (voiced) and "thorn" (unvoiced)




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 04:47:52 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:47:52 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcfoc1+3a3s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcnl9o+q6q0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Petra Pan" <ms_petra_pan at ...>
wrote:
>
Carol earlier:
> > Carol, now needing some sort of mnemonic device so she won't
forget "solecism" again
> 
> Petra:
> Nah...just use the reverse dictionary at 
> 
> http://onelook.com/reverse-dictionary.shtml
> 
> Inputting "grammar error" as concept would bring up "solecism"  as
#1 among hundreds of other possibilities for the word you were trying
to find.
> 
> Hmm...the older I get, the more I use this site!

Carol again:
Wow! Thank you! Considering how frequently I forget words,
particularly nouns, I know I'll get a lot of use out of this site!

Carol, now hoping to forget a word so she'll have a reason to use the site




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 04:56:27 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:56:27 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcgm33+683q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcnlpr+4l3p@eGroups.com>

Potioncat wrote:
<snip> 
> I thought Francis Beaufort must have been the Prince who was drowned
in a barrel of ale, but rather he was involved with the Navy. (Didn't
find the connection.) <snip>

Carol responds:

Are you thinking of George, Duke of Clarence, brother of Edward IV and
Richard III? (Richard was Duke of Gloucester when George was
executed.) Supposedly, Clarence was drowned in a butt of malmsey, his
favorite wine. I won't go into the details, but his brother Edward
declared him guilty of treason.

Carol, who thinks that George was also guilty of knowing too much
about Edward's love life




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep 18 06:44:39 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:44:39 -0000
Subject: Realtors--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <46EF3F40.1060700@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fcns4n+mi2t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:
>
> >> Random832 wrote:>>
> >> I-ern for "Iron" - READ THE DAMN WORD. Or don't. It is English, 
> >> after all, the language with the most screwed-up spelling system
> >> ever. 
> >>
> >> It's not "wrong".
> > 
> > Mike:
> > From the on-line American Heritage? Dictionary:
> > i?ern ---- that's a long "I" and an upside down "e"
> > 
> > No other pronunciation offered. What other way did you have in mind, 
> > Random?
> 
> Random832:
> 
> how about i-ron?
> 
> My point was, rather, words change. That one did long ago. Some (most of 
> them complained about in this thread) are changing today. Who knows what 
> words will change tomorrow?

Geoff:
Most English folk will pronounce 'iron' so that the 'r' is fairly weak as in 'fire' 
or 'shire'. Many people with a strong Scots accent will roll the 'r' so it comes 
out as 'irrr-on'  if you can interpret that spelling.

On the question of 'realtor', in the UK, we get round the problem by 
pronouncing the word as 'estate agent'.
:-))




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 18 13:44:31 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:44:31 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcnfqg+56ar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcoknv+ap62@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> Oh. Very interesting. Do you think though that this was what Susan 
> Cooper intended? Meaning, do you think she intended to portray 
Dark 
> and Light as almost the same? Or just as two forces matched in 
> strength?
> 
> That's what I am wondering indeed, because you see today I 
finished 
> rereading the Dark is rising ( the second book only I mean) and I 
> totally get the impression that what was done to Walker was 
supposed 
> to be looked as deserving somehow. I mean, it is, but you get the 
> drift - I find it scary.
> 
> Isn't the light struggle portrayed as the just one?
> 
> Interesting in the wierd way.
> 
> Where do you get that was done to Walker was a law? I mean 
Merryman 
> says we did, I guess, so they probably decided together. I do not 
> know.
> 
> Somehow last time I read the series ( I read them only twice) 
couple 
> years ago, I was more impressed by Merryman supposedly giving 
Walker 
> a choice to rest or something.
> 
> I still adore these books, but my mental picture of them is 
changing.
> 
> We shall see what I think when I finish reread.

Magpie:
I definitely think that's what Susan Cooper intended, that the Light 
and the Dark are in some ways the same. I'm sure that opinion is 
voiced more than once in the series. The Light's answer is that they 
get that perspective, but that people can't understand their 
perspective because they're not human. They're fighting so that 
human beings can live freely, not for themselves. But that's all 
their concentrated on--if some people die along the way, or get 
hurt, they accept that. That's why ultimately the most important 
decisions that turn the tide are by human beings and not by Old 
Ones, because it's humans who can make these choices more freely. 
This is also why it's so annoying to me that the movie appears to 
show Will acting like a teenaged boy with his powers, using them for 
vengeance and stuff like that, because the point is he's not human. 
He's not tempted to do that; it's not in his nature. 

With the Walker, iirc, there's a sort of "Council" or whatever of 
the Light, and since the Walker betrayed them to the Dark he's 
punished by having to carry the sign. In the end Merriman doesn't 
give him a choice, he just points out to him that now that his 
punishment is over he has one. He could have died as soon as he 
handed over the Sign of Bronze. I think the point is more that the 
Light do care for people, they just always put the Light ahead of 
everything. Though Will and Merriman seem like they're supposed to 
be very different in that Will is far closer to people and can think 
much more like them. That's why Merriman makes such a huge mistake 
in giving the Walker the job he does. The Walker considers it a 
betrayal that Merriman is willing to let him die over a book. Will, 
otoh, realizes the Light gave him hepititas and thinks that's a 
perfectly good thing to do. Or, like, when he tries to comfort Bran 
over the death of Cafall he can't help himself from speaking as an 
Old One, even though he knows that's the last thing a human wants to 
hear in that moment. The Light definitely have ethics in the way the 
Dark does not, but it's still pretty cold. They seem to realize that 
the best thing they can do for people is not get involved with them 
as Old Ones. 

-m




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 15:00:06 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:00:06 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcoknv+ap62@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcop5m+al4c@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> I definitely think that's what Susan Cooper intended, that the 
Light 
> and the Dark are in some ways the same. I'm sure that opinion is 
> voiced more than once in the series. The Light's answer is that 
they 
> get that perspective, but that people can't understand their 
> perspective because they're not human. They're fighting so that 
> human beings can live freely, not for themselves. But that's all 
> their concentrated on--if some people die along the way, or get 
> hurt, they accept that. That's why ultimately the most important 
> decisions that turn the tide are by human beings and not by Old 
> Ones, because it's humans who can make these choices more freely. 
> This is also why it's so annoying to me that the movie appears to 
> show Will acting like a teenaged boy with his powers, using them 
for 
> vengeance and stuff like that, because the point is he's not human. 
> He's not tempted to do that; it's not in his nature. 
> 
> With the Walker, iirc, there's a sort of "Council" or whatever of 
> the Light, and since the Walker betrayed them to the Dark he's 
> punished by having to carry the sign. In the end Merriman doesn't 
> give him a choice, he just points out to him that now that his 
> punishment is over he has one. He could have died as soon as he 
> handed over the Sign of Bronze. I think the point is more that the 
> Light do care for people, they just always put the Light ahead of 
> everything. Though Will and Merriman seem like they're supposed to 
> be very different in that Will is far closer to people and can 
think 
> much more like them. That's why Merriman makes such a huge mistake 
> in giving the Walker the job he does. The Walker considers it a 
> betrayal that Merriman is willing to let him die over a book. Will, 
> otoh, realizes the Light gave him hepititas and thinks that's a 
> perfectly good thing to do. Or, like, when he tries to comfort Bran 
> over the death of Cafall he can't help himself from speaking as an 
> Old One, even though he knows that's the last thing a human wants 
to 
> hear in that moment. The Light definitely have ethics in the way 
the 
> Dark does not, but it's still pretty cold. They seem to realize 
that 
> the best thing they can do for people is not get involved with them 
> as Old Ones. 
> 
> -m



Alla:

Oh yeah, of course when you phrase it like that I agree :)

By the way, do you know any good Dark is Rising discussion groups? 
Could you offlist me if you do? ;)


I thought that you were saying that Light and Dark are indeed the 
same in a sense that their ideas, their goals are the same.

While to me it was indeed obvious that they do care about people, 
etc, while at the same time they are not very how to put it? 
Forgiving?

Like what you said - they fight for human beings to live freely, they 
just do not care for those who fall along the way **because** they 
are human, like Walker.

And yeah, I do feel that parallels with Dumbledore planning are 
pretty strong too. After all, he also fought for WW to be free of 
Voldemort and if some fall along the way, oh well.

Cold ethics, I agree, just it seems to me that Dark in the Cooper's 
books has no ethics.

And again, I cannot but be amused how much memory obliviation 
resonates of similarity to me.

I am sorry for mentioning examples from one book only, but it is the 
freshest in my mind, since as I said I reread it only yesterday.

Like in church when Will makes Paul and reverend forget. Heee, he 
says that he does not want for his two worlds to meet too closely or 
something. In this, I feel it is exactly what JKR intended to use 
memory charms in HP. Just to keep two worlds separated, so no ethical 
problems arise for me at all, even though in the different books it 
could be.


Walker, well, as I said when I was reading series last time, I was 
left with the impression that Merriman was giving him a choice, that 
is why it did not leave such a bitter taste in my mouth that it does 
now.

I mean, after he was carrying the signs for centuries, of course, if 
one call it a choice.

Like when he tells him to come back to Light before he calls Dark to 
them.

And even when he tells Will about the spell, I was thinking that 
Walker consent was needed to do it.

But oy, harsh, very very harsh.

I have to say though - OMG those books are so very beatiful. I still 
feel the music of the language, that certainly did not change.

And Will, as mixture of old one and eleven year old - wonderful 
character.

Oh, oh I looked up Susan Cooper Interviews and was wondering if this 
is the one you had in mind when you were talking about her intentions.


http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/intrvws/cooper.htm

SC: No, he's my character, not the Merlin of tradition. Merriman is 
an Old One in my books, a figure of the Light that opposes the Dark, 
which is my rather obvious classification of good and evil. He 
doesn't have the ambiguous dark qualities of Merlin in Arthurian 
legend. The sinister side of Merriman Lyon, and indeed all the Old 
Ones, is that absolute good, like absolute evil, is fanatical. As one 
of my characters points out, there is no room for human ambiguity. 
Absolute good is like a blinding light, which can be very cruel, and 
to that extent Merriman is not a sympathetic character. He represents 
something, but what he represents is to do with those books and not 
to do with Arthurian legend.


Alla





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Sep 18 16:47:02 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:47:02 -0000
Subject: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcnlpr+4l3p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcove6+6k9v@eGroups.com>

 
> Carol responds:
> 
> Are you thinking of George, Duke of Clarence, brother of Edward IV and
> Richard III? (Richard was Duke of Gloucester when George was
> executed.) 

PotioncatL
Yeah, that's the one! I guess the Beauforts came later--from the line 
of Duke of Lancaster. Though none of this has anything to do with the 
entry in the reverse dictionary.


Potioncat, who will tie this to HP by adding that Lancaster's name was 
also Gaunt.




From snapes_witch at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 21:14:43 2007
From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:14:43 -0000
Subject: Realtors--meet on in FeBOOary in the Liberry
In-Reply-To: <fcns4n+mi2t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcpf43+56ue@eGroups.com>

 Geoff:
> 
> On the question of 'realtor', in the UK, we get round the problem by 
> pronouncing the word as 'estate agent'.
> :-))
>

Of course you do!  

Most Americans don't realize that 'Realtor' is a registered trademark 
(note the capitalization) and is only to be used by  real estate agents 
who belong to the National Association of Realtors.

Snape's Witch  





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 00:03:36 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 00:03:36 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcove6+6k9v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcpp0o+it0q@eGroups.com>

Carol responds:
> > 
> > Are you thinking of George, Duke of Clarence, brother of Edward IV
and Richard III? (Richard was Duke of Gloucester when George was
executed.) 
> 
> PotioncatL
> Yeah, that's the one! I guess the Beauforts came later--from the
line  of Duke of Lancaster. <snip> 
> 
> Potioncat, who will tie this to HP by adding that Lancaster's name
was also Gaunt.


Carol responds:

I did think of John of Gaunt when I first read the chapter title
"House of Gaunt," and given the depiction of the Gaunt family, I got
the idea that JKR is no Lancastrian! (Which is good; neither am I. I
wear my roses white, meaning, I'm a Yorkist.)

Anyway, the Beauforts came earlier, not later. I don't want to go into
too much detail (even though this is the OT list!) because I'm not
sure that many people will be interested, but the Beauforts were
"extinct in the male line" at the time of George of Clarence's death
in 1478, the heir being Margaret Beaufort, who married Edmund Tudor
and was the mother of Richard III's successor, Henry VII, my least
favorite English king. (I don't like his mother, either. But, then,
I'm a Ricardian, and her scheming was largely responsible for
Richard's fall.)

Carol, who has a theory that Lewis Carroll was also a Yorkist but
won't go into it here




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 01:30:14 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:30:14 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcnehg+nreg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcpu36+3687@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> For example, does anybody who read the series was reminded of
> Dumbledore's treatment of Snape in Merriman treatment of Walker.
> 
> Magpie:
> Actually my answer to this question and the Obliviate question are 
> the same--the Light isn't forgiving at all, but that's the point. 
> They're not human, they're inhuman and they're kind of fanatics (and 
> they're called out as such in the book). What's done to the Walker is 
> supposed to be inhuman (I think it's more some sort of Law than 
> specifically Merriman).
> 

marion11111:
I just finished a very fast reread of these for the first time in probably twenty-five years.  It 
was very interesting to do this following all the discussion about right and wrong and 
good and evil in the Harry Potter books.  

I know in earlier readings I felt terrible about the Walker's betrayal, but I never really 
considered the depth of Merriman's coldness.  To know that someone is gambling with 
your life, not their own, but yours.  How could Merriman even think that the Walker would 
remain loyal?  It's so much darker than anything JKR wrote about Dumbledore and Snape 
and I wonder if it's just beyond the comprehension of most kids.  I certainly was so caught 
up in the idea of kindly, protective Gumerry that I didn't see the real motivation behind the 
Walker's switch.  

And Bran - arrogant, self-centered snot.  Again, as a kid I just saw an unlikable character, 
but now realize that the Pendragon couldn't be anything but arrogant.

Referencing other posts by you two, I was very surprised that Susan Cooper said she didn't 
intend to write an Arthur story.  I always thought that was the whole point!

And regarding Will's character in the upcoming movie, Will is not just an average teen once 
he becomes an Old One.  The trio notice this and so does his family. You're right - he 
would not joke around about his powers.   Several people - teachers and kids at school 
who all know what a HP fan I am - have mentioned seeing the trailer and have called it a 
"Harry Potter rip-off" or Harry Potter Lite.  How very frustrating that it's going to come 
across that way and not as the earlier and potentially deeper story that it is.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 02:06:07 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:06:07 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcpu36+3687@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcq06f+qimf@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> I just finished a very fast reread of these for the first time in 
probably twenty-five years.  It 
> was very interesting to do this following all the discussion about 
right and wrong and 
> good and evil in the Harry Potter books.  
> 
> I know in earlier readings I felt terrible about the Walker's 
betrayal, but I never really 
> considered the depth of Merriman's coldness.  To know that someone 
is gambling with 
> your life, not their own, but yours.  How could Merriman even 
think that the Walker would 
> remain loyal?  It's so much darker than anything JKR wrote about 
Dumbledore and Snape 
> and I wonder if it's just beyond the comprehension of most kids.  
I certainly was so caught 
> up in the idea of kindly, protective Gumerry that I didn't see the 
real motivation behind the 
> Walker's switch.  

Alla:

Agreed. Dumbledore is a baby in comparison, me thinks :)

And when Merriman for all his sadness does not even flinch when he 
tells Will that I was prepared to let him die...

Just like that. Although again, maybe Dumbledore is a worthy student 
if he was indeed okay with Harry's death for greater good. I prefer 
to think that he highly suspected that Harry will survive.

But I mean for all Dumbledore ordering Snape around, Snape **came to 
him** and offered.

Walker was as far as I concerned just used and abused over and over 
and over.

And love Will as I am, I wanted to slap him badly when he showed the 
signs in the Walker's face.

Did you still like Will after the reread? I am rereading Greenwitch 
now and so far am liking Will still, we shall see how I feel after 
the end.

But as I said, even if I will end up dissapointed in the characters, 
the language OMG the language. LOVE. This is one area so far where I 
think Susan Cooper beats JKR and beats her **good**. It flows soooo 
effortlessly.

I thoroughly enjoy JKR powers of storytelling, but her language 
sometimes I do find not a bit clumsy. But listen, this is someone 
for whom English is a second language talking, so if I could ever 
write even one eighth as well as JKR does, I will be jumping with 
joy.

Just as a reader, I like Cooper style better.



marion11111: 
<SNIP>
 Several people - teachers and kids at school 
> who all know what a HP fan I am - have mentioned seeing the 
trailer and have called it a 
> "Harry Potter rip-off" or Harry Potter Lite.  How very frustrating 
that it's going to come 
> across that way and not as the earlier and potentially deeper 
story that it is.
>


Alla:

If somebody tells me that this is HP rip off one more time, I will 
just say READ the books - now, now now :)




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 03:15:14 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:15:14 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq06f+qimf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcq482+aeuc@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> Agreed. Dumbledore is a baby in comparison, me thinks :)
> 
> And when Merriman for all his sadness does not even flinch when he 
> tells Will that I was prepared to let him die...
> 
> Just like that. Although again, maybe Dumbledore is a worthy student 
> if he was indeed okay with Harry's death for greater good. I prefer 
> to think that he highly suspected that Harry will survive.
> 
> But I mean for all Dumbledore ordering Snape around, Snape **came to 
> him** and offered.

marion11111:
Well, this was the odd thing for me.  DD certainly never betrayed Snape's love.  They had 
no relationship prior to the "deal."  Snape never knew he was being set up to take the fall 
for the wand, while the Walker always knew his life was at risk.  All Dumbledore did is to 
promise something that he could never have expected to deliver. How could he plan to 
keep Lily safe? And really he didn't try very hard IMO.  DD was horrible, again IMO, 
because he used Snape's grief to his own advantage.  But, as you say, Snape asked for it 
and chose to stay on and complete the task.  He could have left at any time.  Snape really 
set his own punishment. 

On the other hand, Merriman abused the Walker's love - the ultimate betrayal. So, why 
then do I dislike DD so much more?  I don't know.  

> 
> 
> Did you still like Will after the reread? I am rereading Greenwitch 
> now and so far am liking Will still, we shall see how I feel after 
> the end.
> 

I did.  I think by removing the Old Ones from normal humanity, it is easier to forgive cold 
single-mindedness.  And being the youngest Old One, he still retains a strong sense of 
decency to people.  I did hate the memory erasure though.  WHY can't the Drews keep 
these memories? 


> But as I said, even if I will end up dissapointed in the characters, 
> the language OMG the language. LOVE. This is one area so far where I 
> think Susan Cooper beats JKR and beats her **good**. It flows soooo 
> effortlessly.
> 
> I thoroughly enjoy JKR powers of storytelling, but her language 
> sometimes I do find not a bit clumsy. But listen, this is someone 
> for whom English is a second language talking, so if I could ever 
> write even one eighth as well as JKR does, I will be jumping with 
> joy.
> 
> Just as a reader, I like Cooper style better.
> 

marion11111:
JKR is not a good writer.  I know that's practically forbidden to say, but it's true.  Susan 
Cooper is masterful.  




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 03:32:16 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:32:16 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq482+aeuc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcq580+tc5t@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> Well, this was the odd thing for me.  DD certainly never betrayed 
Snape's love.  They had 
> no relationship prior to the "deal."  Snape never knew he was 
being set up to take the fall 
> for the wand, while the Walker always knew his life was at risk.  
All Dumbledore did is to 
> promise something that he could never have expected to deliver. 
How could he plan to 
> keep Lily safe? And really he didn't try very hard IMO.  DD was 
horrible, again IMO, 
> because he used Snape's grief to his own advantage.  But, as you 
say, Snape asked for it 
> and chose to stay on and complete the task.  He could have left at 
any time.  Snape really 
> set his own punishment. 
> 
> On the other hand, Merriman abused the Walker's love - the 
ultimate betrayal. So, why 
> then do I dislike DD so much more?  I don't know.  


Alla:

You know, it is funny. What you just wrote convinced me even more 
that any attempt to categorise why we would like the characters 
based on what they do or not do may fall flat. And we will often 
dislike one character and like the other even if they would do the 
thing we may find bad in one, but not in another, if that makes 
sense.

Reminds me of what Magpie wrote once on main about perfect 
characters.

It is what you said, I obviously think that Dumbledore is much less 
guilty of treating Snape like a jerk in comparison to how Merryman 
treated Walker and you agree, but you have different emotional 
reaction to it, yes?

I mean, it is just how writing makes you react, right?

Because even though I think that Merryman was objectively worse, I 
totally know that Dumbledore was being a manipulative jerk towards 
Snape, but to me different reasons come to play.

The first is of course Snape came and asked, second is that for what 
he did, he in my mind deserved it, third is that I just think he 
deserved it period :) As I mentioned before, I was just pleased to 
see Snape being ordered around - to me nice change from seeing Snape 
doing that to Harry.

And of course I just absolutely bought Dumbledore having centuries 
grief over Ariana's death, Harry broking through his coldness, etc.

In short, I bought Dumbledore's humanity and grief.

Merriman, even when Walker dies, still claims that his choices had 
been his own.

Oh dear, NO, they really were not, me thinks.






 
> > 
> > Alla:
> > Did you still like Will after the reread? I am rereading 
Greenwitch 
> > now and so far am liking Will still, we shall see how I feel 
after 
> > the end.
> > 
> Marion1111:
> I did.  I think by removing the Old Ones from normal humanity, it 
is easier to forgive cold 
> single-mindedness.  And being the youngest Old One, he still 
retains a strong sense of 
> decency to people.  I did hate the memory erasure though.  WHY 
can't the Drews keep 
> these memories? 


Alla:

Yeah, agree completely.

 
> marion11111:
> JKR is not a good writer.  I know that's practically forbidden to 
say, but it's true.  Susan 
> Cooper is masterful.
>


Alla:

NO, it is not a forbidden thing to say ;) Like at all. Many people 
will disagree with you of course, myself included, but since when 
the critique of JKR's writing became a forbidden thing to say?

As I said, I find it clumsy sometimes, but often enough I will find 
it charming and fun.

But I definitely would not call JKR Tolkien, Shakespeare or my all 
time favorite writers of my childhood and adolescence - Tolstoy and 
Dostoevsky.

And you are right - writing wise I would not call her Cooper either.

Alla.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 03:44:23 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:44:23 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq06f+qimf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcq5un+n66p@eGroups.com>

> > marion11111:
> > I just finished a very fast reread of these for the first time in 
> probably twenty-five years.  It 
> > was very interesting to do this following all the discussion 
about 
> right and wrong and 
> > good and evil in the Harry Potter books.  
> > 
> > I know in earlier readings I felt terrible about the Walker's 
> betrayal, but I never really 
> > considered the depth of Merriman's coldness.  To know that 
someone 
> is gambling with 
> > your life, not their own, but yours.  How could Merriman even 
> think that the Walker would 
> > remain loyal?  It's so much darker than anything JKR wrote about 
> Dumbledore and Snape 
> > and I wonder if it's just beyond the comprehension of most kids.  
> I certainly was so caught 
> > up in the idea of kindly, protective Gumerry that I didn't see 
the 
> real motivation behind the 
> > Walker's switch.  
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Agreed. Dumbledore is a baby in comparison, me thinks :)
> 
> And when Merriman for all his sadness does not even flinch when he 
> tells Will that I was prepared to let him die...

Magpie:
I would say that you have to also take into account the different 
relationships--and again that Merriman isn't supposed to be a human 
being (so someone we should aspire to be). He's like a god.

The Walker's weakness really wasn't just that Merriman betrayed his 
love, because Merriman didn't, iirc, lie to the Walker. He told him 
exactly what he was being asked--and being asked to take on a mission 
that was potentially deadly isn't unheard of, really. The problem 
wasn't that Merriman betrayed him, since Merriman laid out exactly 
what Hawkin was doing. Hawkin made the choice--Merriman didn't force 
him, iirc. That's the thing the Light doesn't do.

The trouble was the Walker in the moment where he could have died, 
couldn't help but make it a test of love--even though Merriman had 
told him the truth, Hawkin couldn't really understand the depth of 
what he was being asked until that moment. In that moment the Walker 
needed exactly what Merriman was unable to give--he needed him to put 
his love for Hawkin the Man above the Light, and he couldn't. He 
would let him die, because otherwise the book might be harmed. 
Merriman and the Light also gave Will a really horrible illness, one 
where, as Bran says, the doctor didn't even realize how bad it was. 
The Light did it to protect the prophecy temporarily. Will, when he 
realizes this, has no problem.

One reason Hawkin agreed to what he was doing, though, was because he 
basically wanted to be an Old One. That's part of why he went to the 
Dark as well. He wanted to be Will, because Will was really in the 
circle. Agreeing to be part of things got Hawkin as close as he was 
going to get--but it also put him under the same law that Old Ones 
like Will live under, and those Laws are harsh. (Doesn't Will also 
risk Mary's life when the Rider tries to use her against him?)

So, the thing is, Dumbledore's the one crying and saying how he got 
to love Harry--he loved him like a person, and he needs/wants Harry 
to love him back (Merriman and Will are prepared to accept the hatred 
and mistrust of people). Merriman considers what happened to Hawkin a 
serious mistake of his own (Merriman's--not Hawkin's). He doesn't 
hold Hawkin's betrayal of him against him.

Alla:
> 
> And love Will as I am, I wanted to slap him badly when he showed 
the 
> signs in the Walker's face.
> 
> Did you still like Will after the reread? I am rereading Greenwitch 
> now and so far am liking Will still, we shall see how I feel after 
> the end.

Magpie:
I've never not liked Will.:-) I don't remember exactly what scene you 
mean when you say Will shoved the signs in the Walker's face--but I 
do remember that ultimately Will feels sorry for the Walker, 
specifically thinks about respecting him and understanding the 
cruelty that was done to him. If it's the scene I'm thinking of it 
seems like again it's laid out along the same lines--Will knows he's 
doing something cruel, and he's choosing to do it because he thinks 
it's important for the Light. In general he treats him 
compassionately and thinks of him with compassion even though he's 
tried to do some serious things to him. He thinks sadly of the short 
time they were like friends.

-m





From random832 at fastmail.us  Wed Sep 19 03:44:04 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:44:04 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] re: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcahjq+nmhp@eGroups.com>
References: <fcahjq+nmhp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46F09B04.8090604@fastmail.us>

Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:
> Carole wrote in
> Continuing on the subject of people frustrating me: I am certain that
> when I say 'thin', the TH sounds a little bit like an F and when I say
> 'think', the TH sounds a little bit like an S. I could say words
> starting with TH all day and all the 'unvoiced' (is that right?) ones
> would sound like one of those two examples. My in-person friends are
> driving me mad by insisting that they can't hear any difference in my
> two different THs.

Can you think of any two words that are pronounced _exactly_ the same, 
except for these two sounds?



From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 04:01:37 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:01:37 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq5un+n66p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcq6v1+sov1@eGroups.com>

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Agreed. Dumbledore is a baby in comparison, me thinks :)
> > 
> > And when Merriman for all his sadness does not even flinch when 
he 
> > tells Will that I was prepared to let him die...
> 
> Magpie:
> I would say that you have to also take into account the different 
> relationships--and again that Merriman isn't supposed to be a 
human 
> being (so someone we should aspire to be). He's like a god.
>

Alla:

Well, yeah, but it is hard not to for me anyways. 

Magpie: 
> The Walker's weakness really wasn't just that Merriman betrayed 
his 
> love, because Merriman didn't, iirc, lie to the Walker. He told 
him 
> exactly what he was being asked--and being asked to take on a 
mission 
> that was potentially deadly isn't unheard of, really. The problem 
> wasn't that Merriman betrayed him, since Merriman laid out exactly 
> what Hawkin was doing. Hawkin made the choice--Merriman didn't 
force 
> him, iirc. That's the thing the Light doesn't do.

Alla:

Hmmm, right. He was not forced, but I was not sure that Merriman 
told him exactly what was asked, because isn't he saying to Will 
that He(Merriman) should have make sure that Hawkin knew exactly 
what the risk was?

 
> The trouble was the Walker in the moment where he could have died, 
> couldn't help but make it a test of love--even though Merriman had 
> told him the truth, Hawkin couldn't really understand the depth of 
> what he was being asked until that moment. In that moment the 
Walker 
> needed exactly what Merriman was unable to give--he needed him to 
put 
> his love for Hawkin the Man above the Light, and he couldn't. He 
> would let him die, because otherwise the book might be harmed.

Alla:

Precisely, yes and objectively I totally understand it and know that 
Light has to fight, just feel very sorry for Walker and as I said 
not sure that Merryman told him everything. I was under impression 
that the fact that he could die was sort of a surprise for him.

 
> Merriman and the Light also gave Will a really horrible illness, 
one 
> where, as Bran says, the doctor didn't even realize how bad it 
was. 
> The Light did it to protect the prophecy temporarily. Will, when 
he 
> realizes this, has no problem.

Alla:

Hepatitis you mean? Well, yeah, Will IS an Old one, hehe. 

 
Magpie:
<SNIP>
> So, the thing is, Dumbledore's the one crying and saying how he 
got 
> to love Harry--he loved him like a person, and he needs/wants 
Harry 
> to love him back (Merriman and Will are prepared to accept the 
hatred 
> and mistrust of people). Merriman considers what happened to 
Hawkin a 
> serious mistake of his own (Merriman's--not Hawkin's). He doesn't 
> hold Hawkin's betrayal of him against him.

Alla:

I am comparing Dumbledore and Snape v Merryman and Walker. I do not 
remember Dumbledore asking Snape to love him, no?

Yes, Merriman says it was his mistake, I know. But I am not sure I 
agree that he does not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him. It is as 
I said was an impression I was left with when I read the books few 
years ago. Merryman says great words, but making Walker walk the 
earh for many centuries does not look like not holding his betrayal 
against him. IMO of course, but I thought his actions speak louder 
than words.

If he would not hold his betrayal against him, why didn't he just 
let him go back to his century?

Oh man, this is fun, I now want to talk about these books more and 
more :)


 
> Alla:
> > 
> > And love Will as I am, I wanted to slap him badly when he showed 
> the 
> > signs in the Walker's face.
> > 
> > Did you still like Will after the reread? I am rereading 
Greenwitch 
> > now and so far am liking Will still, we shall see how I feel 
after 
> > the end.
> 
> Magpie:
> I've never not liked Will.:-) I don't remember exactly what scene 
you 
> mean when you say Will shoved the signs in the Walker's face--but 
I 
> do remember that ultimately Will feels sorry for the Walker, 
> specifically thinks about respecting him and understanding the 
> cruelty that was done to him. If it's the scene I'm thinking of it 
> seems like again it's laid out along the same lines--Will knows 
he's 
> doing something cruel, and he's choosing to do it because he 
thinks 
> it's important for the Light. In general he treats him 
> compassionately and thinks of him with compassion even though he's 
> tried to do some serious things to him. He thinks sadly of the 
short 
> time they were like friends.


Alla:

Well, as I said so far I like him well enough still, yeah, he feels 
sorry for Walker sometimes.

The scene I am thinking about is when Walker is in his house and 
Will tells him to say that he needs a doctor to move his family and 
Walker refuses and Will shoves the signs in his face knowing that it 
would make Walker scream in pain?

Wanted to slap him badly, but yes, he feels sorry, I like that :)

Just not that moment.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 04:26:56 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:26:56 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq6v1+sov1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcq8eg+cium@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> 
> Well, yeah, but it is hard not to for me anyways. 
> 
> Magpie: 
> > The Walker's weakness really wasn't just that Merriman betrayed 
> his 
> > love, because Merriman didn't, iirc, lie to the Walker. He told 
> him 
> > exactly what he was being asked--and being asked to take on a 
> mission 
> > that was potentially deadly isn't unheard of, really. The problem 
> > wasn't that Merriman betrayed him, since Merriman laid out 
exactly 
> > what Hawkin was doing. Hawkin made the choice--Merriman didn't 
> force 
> > him, iirc. That's the thing the Light doesn't do.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hmmm, right. He was not forced, but I was not sure that Merriman 
> told him exactly what was asked, because isn't he saying to Will 
> that He(Merriman) should have make sure that Hawkin knew exactly 
> what the risk was?

Magpie:
Yes, he did tell him. If he hadn't told him, Hawkin would not have 
had any reason to feel betrayed. I think what he means by "making 
sure Hawkin knew the risk" is not that he should have told him, but 
that he should have made sure he really understood that if he took 
this on, he might die. Instead he was focused more on doing something 
important and it was only in the moment that Merriman touched his 
shoulder and went for the book that Hawkin suddenly realized--wait, 
could I be dying right here? And Merriman's giving him no assurance. 
He's all Old One going for the book.

I mean, there's no indication that Merriman tricked him in terms of 
not telling him something--if that were the case Hawkin would have no 
reason to be afraid in that moment.


> Alla:
> 
> Precisely, yes and objectively I totally understand it and know 
that 
> Light has to fight, just feel very sorry for Walker and as I said 
> not sure that Merryman told him everything. I was under impression 
> that the fact that he could die was sort of a surprise for him.

Magpie:
But how would he have known he could die if Merriman hadn't told him? 
There's nothing that happens in the scene that tells Hawkin that he 
might die--Will has no idea why he looks pale or what Merriman means 
when he says it was "too much to ask." If Merrriman hadn't told 
Hawkin what he was doing, all Hawkin would have known was that 
Merriman had to be touching him to take out the book, and he would 
have probably done that happily enough, perhaps assuming that if he 
wasn't there Merriman wouldn't be able to pull it out or something.
> 
>  
> > Merriman and the Light also gave Will a really horrible illness, 
> one 
> > where, as Bran says, the doctor didn't even realize how bad it 
> was. 
> > The Light did it to protect the prophecy temporarily. Will, when 
> he 
> > realizes this, has no problem.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hepatitis you mean? Well, yeah, Will IS an Old one, hehe. 

Magpie:
Right--he doesn't feel hurt that people made him suffer pretty 
horribly just to keep a prophecy safe for a relatively short time. 
He's got the same priorities.
> 
>  
> Magpie:
> <SNIP>
> > So, the thing is, Dumbledore's the one crying and saying how he 
> got 
> > to love Harry--he loved him like a person, and he needs/wants 
> Harry 
> > to love him back (Merriman and Will are prepared to accept the 
> hatred 
> > and mistrust of people). Merriman considers what happened to 
> Hawkin a 
> > serious mistake of his own (Merriman's--not Hawkin's). He doesn't 
> > hold Hawkin's betrayal of him against him.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I am comparing Dumbledore and Snape v Merryman and Walker. I do not 
> remember Dumbledore asking Snape to love him, no?

Magpie:
Oh--Snape. Then no. But even there there's a lot of differences. But 
I don't have a problem with the way Dumbledore treats Snape. 

Alla:
> 
> Yes, Merriman says it was his mistake, I know. But I am not sure I 
> agree that he does not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him. It is as 
> I said was an impression I was left with when I read the books few 
> years ago. Merryman says great words, but making Walker walk the 
> earh for many centuries does not look like not holding his betrayal 
> against him. IMO of course, but I thought his actions speak louder 
> than words.

Magpie:
But he doesn't make the Walker do that in anger to get back at him 
for hurting him personally. The Light is scary because they're 
judgments are carried out without emotion. "And the Doom that Hawkin 
has brought upon himself by this act," Merriman said, without 
expression, "is a dread matter, which will make him many times wish 
that he might die." Merriman's described as being without expression 
(until it softens). He's gone to the Dark and now Merriman is coldly 
judging him as the traitor--coldly, not angrily. He's the enemy now, 
and he's not going to treat him as anything else just because he 
likes him personally. 

Alla:
> 
> If he would not hold his betrayal against him, why didn't he just 
> let him go back to his century?

Magpie:
Because that's the punishment for betraying the Light to the Dark. 
They're fanatics to their cause and really harsh judges. The bad 
thing about betraying the Light isn't that they're going to be 
furious and go off on you--that's what the Dark does. The Light just 
looks at you with completely cold judgment and gives you the 
punishment for whatever you've done. (In Hawkin's case it's a 
biggie.) 

In a way, it's doubly sad for Hawkin, because he's the one with all 
this emotion--he feels so betrayed and he's so heavily punished for 
an understandable moment of weakness. But he's the only one wrapped 
up in his emotions about it. If Merriman were human he might feel 
personally betrayed by Hawkin and want to lash out at him because of 
it. Since he's an Old One he's just waiting out the end of his 
punishment. The more significant Hawkin wants to be to these people 
the more insignificant he is. 

-m
 




From elfundeb at comcast.net  Wed Sep 19 13:00:11 2007
From: elfundeb at comcast.net (elfundeb2)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:00:11 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcpp0o+it0q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcr6gr+tq7h@eGroups.com>

Carol:
> I did think of John of Gaunt when I first read the chapter title
> "House of Gaunt," and given the depiction of the Gaunt family, I got
> the idea that JKR is no Lancastrian! (Which is good; neither am I. I
> wear my roses white, meaning, I'm a Yorkist.)

Debbie:
I had the same reaction.

Carol:
> Anyway, the Beauforts came earlier, not later. 

Debbie:
But not earlier than John of Gaunt, because the first Beauforts were 
his children.

Carol:
> Carol, who has a theory that Lewis Carroll was also a Yorkist but
> won't go into it here

Debbie:
This sounds spot on!  The White Knight was himself, wasn't he?

Debbie
who would like to hear more about Carol's Lewis Carroll theory





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 19 16:47:43 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:47:43 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcpp0o+it0q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcrjrf+t1va@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol responds:
> > > 
> > > Are you thinking of George, Duke of Clarence, brother of Edward IV
> and Richard III? (Richard was Duke of Gloucester when George was
> executed.) 
> > 
> > PotioncatL
> > Yeah, that's the one! I guess the Beauforts came later--from the
> line  of Duke of Lancaster. <snip> 
> > 
> > Potioncat, who will tie this to HP by adding that Lancaster's name
> was also Gaunt.
> 
> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> I did think of John of Gaunt when I first read the chapter title
> "House of Gaunt," and given the depiction of the Gaunt family, I got
> the idea that JKR is no Lancastrian! (Which is good; neither am I. I
> wear my roses white, meaning, I'm a Yorkist.)
> 
> Anyway, the Beauforts came earlier, not later. I don't want to go into
> too much detail (even though this is the OT list!) because I'm not
> sure that many people will be interested, but the Beauforts were
> "extinct in the male line" at the time of George of Clarence's death
> in 1478, the heir being Margaret Beaufort, who married Edmund Tudor
> and was the mother of Richard III's successor, Henry VII, my least
> favorite English king. (I don't like his mother, either. But, then,
> I'm a Ricardian, and her scheming was largely responsible for
> Richard's fall.)
> 
> Carol, who has a theory that Lewis Carroll was also a Yorkist but
> won't go into it here

Geoff:
Watch it!

I grew up in Lancashire, my mother and maternal grandparents
being from good Lancastrian stock. However I could claim to be 
a Tudor because my father was a Yorkshireman.

Be careful I don't force feed you a diet of black pudding and Eccles 
cakes for making derogatory remarks about a great county...
:-))

Lewis Carroll does have Yorkshire connections. He was born in a 
village in Cheshire, which is the county immediately outh of Lancashire 
but at the age of 11 teh family moved to near Richmond in North 
Yorkshire so he may have cultivated white roses. 







From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 20:36:13 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:36:13 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq8eg+cium@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcs17t+a8br@eGroups.com>

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Hmmm, right. He was not forced, but I was not sure that Merriman 
> > told him exactly what was asked, because isn't he saying to Will 
> > that He(Merriman) should have make sure that Hawkin knew exactly 
> > what the risk was?
> 
> Magpie:
> Yes, he did tell him. If he hadn't told him, Hawkin would not have 
> had any reason to feel betrayed. I think what he means by "making 
> sure Hawkin knew the risk" is not that he should have told him, but 
> that he should have made sure he really understood that if he took 
> this on, he might die. Instead he was focused more on doing 
something 
> important and it was only in the moment that Merriman touched his 
> shoulder and went for the book that Hawkin suddenly realized--wait, 
> could I be dying right here? And Merriman's giving him no 
assurance. 
> He's all Old One going for the book.
> 
> I mean, there's no indication that Merriman tricked him in terms of 
> not telling him something--if that were the case Hawkin would have 
no 
> reason to be afraid in that moment.

Alla:

No, not tricked, and sure, I am sure he mentioned the possibility of 
death, and Hawkin took it on.

But that is the thing - did he mention **all** the risks, did he 
mentioned how **high** the possibility of death is AND did he mention 
that as Merryman the Old One he does not give a d*mn whether Hawkin 
dies or not, if it is needed to save the book?

I do not see that he said all that, because otherwise what you said 
would not happen, no?

If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the 
sign that he was **told** before how high the chance of it?

Not that he **MAY** die, but he is almost certainly may die, you know?

Sooo, I do not know, I am sure Merryman told him that he may die and 
I am sure he took the task, but I still believe that he took the task 
at least partially under false pretenses, which likely were not even 
intentional on Merryman's part.  But who knows, maybe he 
subsconsciously thought that it is better not to describe task in 
great details. IMO.


 
> Magpie:
> But how would he have known he could die if Merriman hadn't told 
him? 
> There's nothing that happens in the scene that tells Hawkin that he 
> might die--Will has no idea why he looks pale or what Merriman 
means 
> when he says it was "too much to ask." If Merrriman hadn't told 
> Hawkin what he was doing, all Hawkin would have known was that 
> Merriman had to be touching him to take out the book, and he would 
> have probably done that happily enough, perhaps assuming that if he 
> wasn't there Merriman wouldn't be able to pull it out or something.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Right, see above.

 
> Alla:
> > 
> > Yes, Merriman says it was his mistake, I know. But I am not sure 
I 
> > agree that he does not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him. It is 
as 
> > I said was an impression I was left with when I read the books 
few 
> > years ago. Merryman says great words, but making Walker walk the 
> > earh for many centuries does not look like not holding his 
betrayal 
> > against him. IMO of course, but I thought his actions speak 
louder 
> > than words.
> 
> Magpie:
> But he doesn't make the Walker do that in anger to get back at him 
> for hurting him personally. The Light is scary because they're 
> judgments are carried out without emotion. "And the Doom that 
Hawkin 
> has brought upon himself by this act," Merriman said, without 
> expression, "is a dread matter, which will make him many times wish 
> that he might die." Merriman's described as being without 
expression 
> (until it softens). He's gone to the Dark and now Merriman is 
coldly 
> judging him as the traitor--coldly, not angrily. He's the enemy 
now, 
> and he's not going to treat him as anything else just because he 
> likes him personally. 

Alla:

Yes, I know, that Light judged Walker for the action he did, coldly 
and emotionlessly, but really to me that does not make much 
difference.

Merryman IS one of the Light, that is why the argument that he does 
not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him is not working for me.

Because even if Merryman personally does not hold a grudge, the Light 
does and IMO Merryman as part of the Light does that as well.


 





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 20:40:30 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:40:30 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcs17t+a8br@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcs1fu+9cbc@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> <SNIP>
>> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the 
> sign that he was **told** before how high the chance of it?
> 
> Not that he **MAY** die, but he is almost certainly may die, you know?
<SNIP>

Alla:

Oy, meant to say

>> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the 
> sign that he was NOT told before how high the chance of it?
> 





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 21:07:02 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:07:02 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcs17t+a8br@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcs31m+nep2@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> No, not tricked, and sure, I am sure he mentioned the possibility 
of 
> death, and Hawkin took it on.
> 
> But that is the thing - did he mention **all** the risks, did he 
> mentioned how **high** the possibility of death is AND did he 
mention 
> that as Merryman the Old One he does not give a d*mn whether 
Hawkin 
> dies or not, if it is needed to save the book?
> 
> I do not see that he said all that, because otherwise what you 
said 
> would not happen, no?
> 
> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the 
> sign that he was **told** before how high the chance of it?
> 
> Not that he **MAY** die, but he is almost certainly may die, you 
know?

Magpie:
I don't know how clear he could have made it. I mean, he doesn't 
die. He's not "most certainly" going to die. He'll die if Merriman 
has been tricked and the book is in danger. I think he told Hawkin 
that, because it's not like something happens in that moment for 
Hawkin to suddenly realize it. It's just that now that it's 
happening it's a reality, like he sees that what Merriman said he 
really meant. That's the part that I think wasn't really 
communicated to him--not because Merriman really kept anything from 
him, I don't think, but because he just told it to him like an Old 
One. Just the facts. He chose Hawkin, I think, because he trusted 
him, but he shouldn't have chosen him because it showed that he 
cared about the book more than anything else. That fact was kind of 
inherent in the whole set up, I think, but it wasn't real to Hawkin 
the way it was to Merriman until that moment. (And Merriman really 
didn't get it either--Will probably would have, because Will's 
closer to humans. I've actually wondered if that was partially 
because he was fated to live with them for so long on his own.)

At least that's the only thing that seems to be happening in the 
scene. If it was about Merriman underplaying the danger I think 
there would need to be more danger. I think you're absolutely right 
in that he did take the part under false pretenses, ones that 
Merriman didn't intend and maybe didn't understand himself until it 
was too late. Though I'm not sure Merriman's describing the task in 
more detail would really have helped either. 


> > Magpie:
> > But he doesn't make the Walker do that in anger to get back at 
him 
> > for hurting him personally. The Light is scary because they're 
> > judgments are carried out without emotion. "And the Doom that 
> Hawkin 
> > has brought upon himself by this act," Merriman said, without 
> > expression, "is a dread matter, which will make him many times 
wish 
> > that he might die." Merriman's described as being without 
> expression 
> > (until it softens). He's gone to the Dark and now Merriman is 
> coldly 
> > judging him as the traitor--coldly, not angrily. He's the enemy 
> now, 
> > and he's not going to treat him as anything else just because he 
> > likes him personally. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, I know, that Light judged Walker for the action he did, 
coldly 
> and emotionlessly, but really to me that does not make much 
> difference.
> 
> Merryman IS one of the Light, that is why the argument that he 
does 
> not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him is not working for me.
> 
> Because even if Merryman personally does not hold a grudge, the 
Light 
> does and IMO Merryman as part of the Light does that as well.

Magpie:
Yes, that's true--though I don't know if I'd call it a grudge 
because it seems like Cooper's point is that the Light is cold and 
that's why they can't be appealed to in matters like this. A human 
being would want Hawkin's sentence lessened. Even the human parts of 
the Old Ones do. But the parts of them that are of the Light only 
see what the Light--they need somebody to carry the Sign and now 
it's going to be Hawkin.

Alla:
>> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the
> sign that he was NOT told before how high the chance of it?
>
Magpie:
I don't think so, no. Because I don't think it's about the chance of 
death being high, but rather the chance of death being real. He's 
actually not in any danger in the scene because Will is the last Old 
One and the book is supposed to go to him. I would guess that the 
chance that the Old Ones had been tricked was actually fairly low. 
But any chance at all that he'd be killed to protect a book is I 
think too much for him once he sees it as Merriman sacrificing him. 
At least that's how I always read it, anyway.

-m




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 20 01:11:26 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 01:11:26 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcs1fu+9cbc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcshbu+k7bu@eGroups.com>


> > Alla:
> > <SNIP>
> >> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that 
the 
> > sign that he was **told** before how high the chance of it?
> > 
> > Not that he **MAY** die, but he is almost certainly may die, you 
know?
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Oy, meant to say
> 
> >> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that 
the 
> > sign that he was NOT told before how high the chance of it?

Magpie:
OT, but dear God I just saw my first commercial. I was like, "What's 
this stupid looking movie...OMG IT'S THE DARK IS RISING AND IT'S EVEN 
WORSE THAN I IMAGINED!!"

-m




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 01:52:31 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 01:52:31 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcshbu+k7bu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsjov+dese@eGroups.com>


> 
> Magpie:
> OT, but dear God I just saw my first commercial. I was like, "What's 
> this stupid looking movie...OMG IT'S THE DARK IS RISING AND IT'S EVEN 
> WORSE THAN I IMAGINED!!"
> 
> -m
>

marion11111:
See, you weren't listening when I told Alla to have a couple drinks before watching the trailer.  
*shaking finger* It's jaw-dropping, isn't it?  




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 20 02:02:55 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:02:55 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcsjov+dese@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcskcf+9pu9@eGroups.com>


> > Magpie:
> > OT, but dear God I just saw my first commercial. I was 
like, "What's 
> > this stupid looking movie...OMG IT'S THE DARK IS RISING AND IT'S 
EVEN 
> > WORSE THAN I IMAGINED!!"
> > 


> marion11111:
> See, you weren't listening when I told Alla to have a couple drinks 
before watching the trailer.  
> *shaking finger* It's jaw-dropping, isn't it?

Magpie:
I didn't know! And when I started to suspect I started to reach for the 
remote to mute it...and by then I was like a deer in the headlights. I 
think the worst, just because I hadn't imagined this horror, was the 
goofy magical music for Will's wacky quest. He can do magic--he doesn't 
even know how to talk to girls!

-m





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 02:10:59 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:10:59 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcskcf+9pu9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcskrj+aeu6@eGroups.com>


> > marion11111:
> > See, you weren't listening when I told Alla to have a couple 
drinks 
> before watching the trailer.  
> > *shaking finger* It's jaw-dropping, isn't it?
> 
> Magpie:
> I didn't know! And when I started to suspect I started to reach 
for the 
> remote to mute it...and by then I was like a deer in the 
headlights. I 
> think the worst, just because I hadn't imagined this horror, was 
the 
> goofy magical music for Will's wacky quest. He can do magic--he 
doesn't 
> even know how to talk to girls!
>

Alla:

Oh dear, I managed to think about the books more and temporarily 
forget about stupid movie, I should keep my drinks ready and am 
typing book post heheh.

SCARY movie.




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 02:48:38 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:48:38 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcq8eg+cium@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsn26+10kgu@eGroups.com>


> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > I am comparing Dumbledore and Snape v Merryman and Walker. I do not 
> > remember Dumbledore asking Snape to love him, no?
> 
> Magpie:
> Oh--Snape. Then no. But even there there's a lot of differences. But 
> I don't have a problem with the way Dumbledore treats Snape. 
> 


marion11111:
You two stay up much later than I do, I'm having trouble keeping up. :-)  

Magpie, I DO have a problem with how Dumbledore treated Snape.  Snape was not a good 
man - he worked for Voldemort, he was willing to watch James and Harry die just to keep 
Lily alive and he was mean to kids, BUT Dumbledore made a trade.  Snape's protection of 
Harry and loyalty to "the cause" in return for keeping Lily safe.  Dumbledore took minimal 
measures to do this and must have known it was a lost cause yet held Snape to his word 
as long as was needed for Dumbledore's plan and then set him up to die.  And I won't even 
get started on his use of Harry.

Merriman, I believe, did spell it all out.  His mistake was in not understanding the 
complexities of human emotion.  He needed to sit Hawkins down and say "You understand 
you could die and I wouldn't be able to save you.  No matter how much I love you, I would 
have to let you die" or something like that.  But Hawkins seems very young in his own time 
when he would have agreed to this and he loved Merriman.  None of us would believe that 
someone we loved would let us die no matter what the cause.

And Hawkins is so much more tragic a character than Snape. To pay such a price for 
simply being human and perhaps not intelligent enough to grasp what was being asked.  
Again, as a kid, I couldn't even begin to get all this.  I just thought "Too bad, he shouldn't 
have switched sides."

So, I'm back to trying to figure out why I can't stand Dumbledore and yet have no problem 
with Merriman.  I guess I felt betrayed by Dumbledore.  He was so cuddly in the first books 
and gave the impression of protecting people - Hagrid, Trelawney, Harry.  To suddenly 
discover that he was coldly using some people was hard to take.

Merriman was never all that cuddly.  On my first reading, I started with DiR and was 
introduced to him as a wise, powerful,yet cold Old One.  Even after seeing him through the 
Drew children's eyes, he was never overly warm and fuzzy.  I think Jane even says at one 
point that he's not that kind of Uncle.  So, when he treated the Walker with such coldness, 
it didn't seem that unexpected.   

And whichever of you pointed out that Will is OK with everything Merriman does because 
he is also an Old One had never occurred to me.  But of course that's it.  









From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 02:56:35 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:56:35 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcskcf+9pu9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsnh3+7nd2@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> OT, but dear God I just saw my first commercial. I was 
like, "What's 
> this stupid looking movie...OMG IT'S THE DARK IS RISING AND IT'S 
EVEN 
> WORSE THAN I IMAGINED!!"
> 
> -m


Alla:

I feel your pain dear, I really do :)

I on the other hand finished rereading Grey King today and now a bit 
more confident with referencing the scenes not just in Dark is 
Rising but in all the books but Under the sea :). Rambling to follow.


I like Will still which is good ?? I doubt I will be able to dislike 
him with only one book left, hehehe. I mean he was feeling 
compassion for that guy who shot Bren??s dog. I was impressed, truly.

I finally reread that conversation between John Roland and Will 
about similar nature of dark and light that you mentioned.


See, I am still not sure whether Susan Cooper is speaking with John 
Roland??s voice in that conversation or Will??s.  And not that I mind 
if she is speaking with Will??s voice, you know? I think it is harsh 
but necessary, sort of. Because indeed as Will says we are fighting 
a war not for ourselves, but for you ?V because we cannot die.

They truly do seem to have the best interests of the mankind at 
heart, no? They just do not care if few of that same mankind will 
fall along the way. 

Scary, but oh so reminds me of Dumbledore again, it really does.

In any even as I said, I am pleased with Will??s character, he has 
the coldness of the old one that I do not like, but he also seems to 
have compassion a plenty, just hope it will not go away later in his 
life.

I am also now not sure if we can so easily judge Old ones as not 
humans only, doesn??t Will say in that very conversation that we are 
not so different from you, just our masters are?

I would imagine that the human parts of old ones do feel human 
desires, right? Whom does he mean as his masters by the way? I mean, 
Merriman is one of the Old ones, master? Other old ones too?
And oh dear I hate how casually they use Drew??s kids. The Light 
needed them in Greenwitch and they still make them forget at every 
possibility? Like when they see Will and Merryman fly. Oh dear,. I 
am so much happier with  memory charms in HP probably because I can 
see that the purpose is to keep two worlds separate, nothing more, 
but here to make marionettes of someone you brought in the heat of 
the moment? Hate it, hate it.


What else to ramble about? Love Bran with all his arrogance. 
Reminded me of Harry in OOP so much. Do wish he would slap Will, 
just for the sake of it.

Oh, oh  even now rereading it, I realize that really it is much 
better not to think to much about some plot points and just accept 
them if I want to enjoy the story, be it JKR or Susan Cooper.

Eh, Merryman is one of the three Lords that watches Harp, is he not? 
Tell me again, what was the whole point of Will??s quest to get it 
for the light? Couldn??t Merriman take it and give it to Will? I find 
it very silly.

Alla.







From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 02:55:53 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:55:53 -0000
Subject: Thar awful trailer was: the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcskrj+aeu6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsnfp+ircd@eGroups.com>

> > Magpie:
> > I didn't know! And when I started to suspect I started to reach 
> for the 
> > remote to mute it...and by then I was like a deer in the 
> headlights. I 
> > think the worst, just because I hadn't imagined this horror, was 
> the 
> > goofy magical music for Will's wacky quest. He can do magic--he 
> doesn't 
> > even know how to talk to girls!
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Oh dear, I managed to think about the books more and temporarily 
> forget about stupid movie, I should keep my drinks ready and am 
> typing book post heheh.
> 

marion11111:
Oh, my favorite part is when Will says "So I can fly?  You know, Whoosh."  aaaack.   The 
thing is, I will see this.  I'm too curious now.  

Goodnight.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 02:59:12 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:59:12 -0000
Subject: Thar awful trailer was: the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcsnfp+ircd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsnm0+km0c@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> Oh, my favorite part is when Will says "So I can fly?  You know, 
Whoosh."  aaaack.   The 
> thing is, I will see this.  I'm too curious now.  
> 
> Goodnight.
>


Alla:

Oh dear, night. :) You know what, I think  I will too, I guess do have 
masohist tendencies after all.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 20 03:00:59 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:00:59 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcsn26+10kgu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsnpb+if5e@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> So, I'm back to trying to figure out why I can't stand Dumbledore 
and yet have no problem 
> with Merriman.  I guess I felt betrayed by Dumbledore.  He was so 
cuddly in the first books 
> and gave the impression of protecting people - Hagrid, Trelawney, 
Harry.  To suddenly 
> discover that he was coldly using some people was hard to take.
> 
> Merriman was never all that cuddly.  On my first reading, I started 
with DiR and was 
> introduced to him as a wise, powerful,yet cold Old One.  Even after 
seeing him through the 
> Drew children's eyes, he was never overly warm and fuzzy.  I think 
Jane even says at one 
> point that he's not that kind of Uncle.  So, when he treated the 
Walker with such coldness, 
> it didn't seem that unexpected.   

Magpie:
I think so too--Merriman is consistent. Dumbledore's tearfully 
telling Harry how much he really loved him and wanted him to be 
happy. Maybe I'd just prefer Merriman because I'd pretty much know 
where I stood and how far his love could go and couldn't go. 

Look at the way Merriman is to Will as well--even more than the 
Drews. He's more patient with them. but in DiR there are times where 
he's really harsh to Will, like when he tells him that yes, it's his 
fault the Lady disappeared. Will's been an Old One for all of half a 
day and he was also a young boy who was tricked, and Merriman snaps 
at him anyway. Even if he apologizes, that's quite a big thing to put 
on Will's shoulders. And he's always very sharp about Will's 
shortcomings, calling him "stupid boy" when he's made a mistake.

All of this still leads to an interesting relationship that I like, 
but there's no confusing Merriman for Dumbledore here. He's treating 
Will as an almost-equal before he's really ready for it, and 
sometimes even sounds a bit Snape-like. With Hawkins he was probably 
sort of an awe-inspiring liege.

-m





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 20 03:17:17 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:17:17 -0000
Subject: Thar awful trailer was: the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcsnfp+ircd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsont+4eoo@eGroups.com>


> marion11111:
> Oh, my favorite part is when Will says "So I can fly?  You know, 
Whoosh."  aaaack.   The 
> thing is, I will see this.  I'm too curious now.  

Magpie:
Especially because the idiot CAN fly in canon. If he'd just read his 
damn book of Gramayre he wouldn't have to ask!

-m




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 20 03:38:57 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:38:57 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcsnh3+7nd2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsq0h+ada5@eGroups.com>

> Alla:

> I like Will still which is good ?? I doubt I will be able to 
dislike 
> him with only one book left, hehehe. I mean he was feeling 
> compassion for that guy who shot Bren??s dog. I was impressed, 
truly.
> 
> I finally reread that conversation between John Roland and Will 
> about similar nature of dark and light that you mentioned.
> 
> 
> See, I am still not sure whether Susan Cooper is speaking with John 
> Roland??s voice in that conversation or Will??s.  And not that I 
mind 
> if she is speaking with Will??s voice, you know? I think it is 
harsh 
> but necessary, sort of. Because indeed as Will says we are fighting 
> a war not for ourselves, but for you ?V because we cannot die.
> 
> They truly do seem to have the best interests of the mankind at 
> heart, no? They just do not care if few of that same mankind will 
> fall along the way. 
> 
> Scary, but oh so reminds me of Dumbledore again, it really does.

Magpie:
I would guess that she's speaking with both their voices. Will is 
speaking for the side of Light, so he's the side that says evil 
*must* be vanquished because he, as an Immortal, can see the real 
danger if that doesn't happen. If the Dark wins, all this stuff is 
moot because men will be enslaved, so Will's got to concentrate on 
that. Cooper I think once said that she probably had that in her head 
from her childhood growing up in WWII. At a really formative age she 
was living in a situation where there was this enemy that *had* to be 
stopped. (The fear Will feels the night before his 11th birthday was 
based on fears she used to have as a kid that a Nazi was hiding in 
her closet...even though the real danger for her was bombings.)

But I think she's also speaking with John's voice because he's 
representing the human side, the guy who's instinctively fearful of 
fanatics. I mean, John is on Will's side. He'll do what Will tells 
him to--in SotT Simon has the same impression. John says he just 
doesn't really like mixing with magic things like Will and Simon says 
yes, he feels uncomfortable with it too. But at the same time both of 
them trust Will's motives. They know he's got their best interests at 
heart in the long term. I think Susan Cooper sees both sides, so she 
knows the Light is right ...but she also sees fanaticism as a bad 
thing even when it's good.

Alla:
> 
> In any even as I said, I am pleased with Will??s character, he has 
> the coldness of the old one that I do not like, but he also seems 
to 
> have compassion a plenty, just hope it will not go away later in 
his 
> life.
> 
> I am also now not sure if we can so easily judge Old ones as not 
> humans only, doesn??t Will say in that very conversation that we 
are 
> not so different from you, just our masters are?

Magpie:
I would say Will's naturally compassionate given his family--it's 
only when he's dealing specifically with matters of the Light when 
he's cold--at least that's how he seems to me. Sometimes he doesn't 
even remember he's an Old One. Cooper seems to suggest something like 
that for most of them, the way people can almost tell when they're 
acting as an Old One because their whole demeanor is different.

I would hope Will didn't change too much either. Like I said, I like 
to think he's always more human because he's the one fated to watch 
over the world ALL BY HIMSELF FOR ALL ETERNITY. Though I know not 
everybody agrees on how that would work--like, will he be different 
when he's been alive for hundreds of years?

Alla:
> 
> I would imagine that the human parts of old ones do feel human 
> desires, right? Whom does he mean as his masters by the way? I 
mean, 
> Merriman is one of the Old ones, master? Other old ones too?
> And oh dear I hate how casually they use Drew??s kids. The Light 
> needed them in Greenwitch and they still make them forget at every 
> possibility? Like when they see Will and Merryman fly. Oh dear,. I 
> am so much happier with  memory charms in HP probably because I can 
> see that the purpose is to keep two worlds separate, nothing more, 
> but here to make marionettes of someone you brought in the heat of 
> the moment? Hate it, hate it.

Magpie:
I have no idea who the Masters are--it's one of the mysteries of the 
Old Ones! I hate it when they make the Drews forget even seeing Will 
and Merriman fly. Why is that even necessary? The kids are already 
knee deep in the magic--it's ridiculously condescending to act like 
they can't handle the fact that these guys can fly. Of course, I 
think the forgetting at the end is the worst thing in the series. 
Why? Why do they forget? Do they lose the development they got 
through the series? Does Bran think Owen's his father again? Do the 
kids think Will's just normal now? (I love when Jane notices Will 
being not like other people.)

Alla:
> 
> What else to ramble about? Love Bran with all his arrogance. 
> Reminded me of Harry in OOP so much. Do wish he would slap Will, 
> just for the sake of it.

Magpie:
LOL. Slap Will for what? Maybe he was holding back because he didn't 
have any other friends.;-)

Alla:
> 
> Eh, Merryman is one of the three Lords that watches Harp, is he 
not? 
> Tell me again, what was the whole point of Will??s quest to get it 
> for the light? Couldn??t Merriman take it and give it to Will? I 
find 
> it very silly.

Magpie:
See, now you're back to all those rules of High Magic that everybody 
has to follow. Prophecy mutter mutter Old Speech mumble mumble.

-m




From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Sep 20 04:11:25 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:11:25 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcpp0o+it0q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsrtd+10342@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> I wear my roses white, meaning, I'm a Yorkist.)

Can someone give me a mnemonic device to remember which is red and
which is white? I keep being confused being York and red are the
shorter words and Lancaster and white are the longer words.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 04:27:44 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:27:44 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <46F09B04.8090604@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fcsss0+rqpq@eGroups.com>

Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:
> > Carole wrote in
> > Continuing on the subject of people frustrating me: I am certain
that  when I say 'thin', the TH sounds a little bit like an F and when
I say  'think', the TH sounds a little bit like an S. I could say
words starting with TH all day and all the 'unvoiced' (is that right?)
ones would sound like one of those two examples. <snip>

Random832 replied: 
> Can you think of any two words that are pronounced _exactly_ the
same, except for these two sounds?

Carol responds:

Not sure how "Carole" got in here: Catlady was quoting me and you're
quoting her. I'm the one who clarified the voiced/voiceless
distinction for "th." (See upthread.)

At any rate, I can't think of any *exact* matches, but how about
"bath" and "bathe"? The a changes from short to long, true, but the
"th" changes along with it from unvoiced in "bath" to voiced in
"bathe." If anyone can say both words with the same "th" sound,
they're speaking some dialect I'm unfamiliar with.

Carol, wondering where the "e" added to her name came from




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 04:47:55 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:47:55 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcr6gr+tq7h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsu1r+d3sc@eGroups.com>

Carol:
> > I did think of John of Gaunt when I first read the chapter title
"House of Gaunt," and given the depiction of the Gaunt family, I got
the idea that JKR is no Lancastrian! (Which is good; neither am I. I
wear my roses white, meaning, I'm a Yorkist.)
> 
> Debbie:
> I had the same reaction.

Carol:
Good. BTW, I think that Jane Austen wrote an amateurish defense of
Richard III when she was young. Mayber JKR read it. (?)
> 
> Carol:
> > Anyway, the Beauforts came earlier, not later. 
> 
> Debbie:
> But not earlier than John of Gaunt, because the first Beauforts were
his children.

Carol:
True. But I was thinking of Richard III's generation. He was only
about four years older than Margaret Beaufort's son, Henry Tudor. She
was a member of the second or third (and last!) generation. The male
line died out rather quickly (at Tewkesbury in 1471, I think.)
> 
> Carol:
> > Carol, who has a theory that Lewis Carroll was also a Yorkist but
> won't go into it here
> 
> Debbie:
> This sounds spot on!  The White Knight was himself, wasn't he?
> 
> Debbie
> who would like to hear more about Carol's Lewis Carroll theory
>
Carol:
Well, simply put, "painting the roses red" suggests changing white
(Yorkist) roses to red (technically, the Tudor symbol but taken to be
Lancastrian as well) to placate a bloody-minded queen. (I had in mind
Margaret of Anjou, wife of the feeble-minded Henry VI.) "Off with her
head!" suggests "Off with his head! So much for Buckingham!" a line
added by Colley Cibber to Shakespeare's "Richard III," which Lewis
Carroll (or rather, Charles Dodgson, had recently seen performed (with
little girls in the role of the Princes in the Tower, to make them
seem more innocent and defenseless). If Dodgson/Carroll was a
Ricardian, he might have wanted to give that line to a Lancastrian
stand-in, the Red Queen. I don't remember reading that Carroll viewed
the White Knight as himself, but if you're right. . . .

Anyway, I haven't explored the theory (if it can be called that) or
checked his diaries to see whether the RIII performance was before or
after he wrote the Red Queen scenes in "Alice." (Margaret of Anjou
does have a role as a kind of Greek chorus in the play even though,
like much else in Shakespeare's so-called history plays, her presence
is historically inaccurate. Shakespeare also has Richard and his
brother George fight in a battle that occurred when they were eight
and eleven respectively and had been sent to Burgundy to keep them safe.)

Carol, glad that someone thinks her theory isn't completely off the wall!




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 04:57:34 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:57:34 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcrjrf+t1va@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcsuju+8onb@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
> Watch it!
> 
> I grew up in Lancashire, my mother and maternal grandparents being
from good Lancastrian stock. However I could claim to be a Tudor
because my father was a Yorkshireman.
> 
> Be careful I don't force feed you a diet of black pudding and Eccles
cakes for making derogatory remarks about a great county...
> :-))
> 
> Lewis Carroll does have Yorkshire connections. He was born in a
village in Cheshire, which is the county immediately outh of
Lancashire but at the age of 11 teh family moved to near Richmond in
North  Yorkshire so he may have cultivated white roses.
>
Carol:

Aargh! Black pudding! Save me!

Thanks for the info on Carroll. I'm not sure that being born or reared
in a particular county would necessitate identifying with the Yorkist
or Lancastrian factions, though. It's more a matter of reading the
history, wading through the biases of the chroniclers to find
something resembling the truth, and choosing a side.

In any case, Henry Tudor's father, Edmund Tudor, was the Earl of
Richmond, so that's a Lancastrian connection in Yorkshire. (The City
of York, however, was solidly for Richard, and his white boar ("bore")
emblem was an anagram for Ebor, short for Eboracum, the Roman name for
York. He chose it when he was just a boy, about twelve, IIRC.

Carol, who recommends Sharon Kay Penman's "The Sunne in Splendour" for
anyone interested in Ricardian fiction (the Wars of the Roses from the
Yorkist pov)

Carol, who doesn't know what Eccles cakes are and isn't sure she wants
to know




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 06:03:50 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 06:03:50 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcsrtd+10342@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fct2g6+7fsu@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote:
> 
> > I wear my roses white, meaning, I'm a Yorkist.)

Catlady replied: 
> Can someone give me a mnemonic device to remember which is red and
which is white? I keep being confused being York and red are the
shorter words and Lancaster and white are the longer words.
>
Carol:
No mnemonic, but Richard's symbols were the white rose of York and the
white boar, which I already explained stands for Ebor(acum) = York. 

Here's a link to the Richard III Society's brief introduction to the
Wars of the Roses:

http://www.richardiii.net/ (I hate that portrait of Richard but I
don't want to confuse you with an irrelevant link to a better one.)

Maybe this link to the flag of Yorkshire will help by creating a
visual memory:

http://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/images/g/gb-en-ys.gif

Carol, who hopes to visit York some day




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 20 06:33:56 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 06:33:56 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcsuju+8onb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fct48k+63u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:


> Carol, who doesn't know what Eccles cakes are and isn't sure she wants
> to know
>

Geoff:
Actually, if you can't stand black pudding these are much more more-ish.

Theye are a small cake made with flaky containing raisins. My mother's had 
to be eaten to be believed....





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 20 06:39:15 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 06:39:15 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fct2g6+7fsu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fct4ij+93ut@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Carol, who hopes to visit York some day

Geoff:
You'll love it. 

Seriously.

I personally believe it is the most beautiful city in the UK. As a 
teenager, I used to visit an aunt and her family who lived six miles 
outside York.

I would take the early bus into the city and spend the entire day 
just wandering around.

If you do visit, make sure you take two or three hours out just to 
walk round the city walls. you won't regret it.

Then, there's the Castle Museum. the National Railway Museum,
the Minster and the Jorvik exhibition just for starters.....

Geoff
who always gets carried away talking about York.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 14:53:36 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:53:36 -0000
Subject: Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie
In-Reply-To: <fcsq0h+ada5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcu1hg+2u3v@eGroups.com>


> 
> Alla:
> > 
> > I would imagine that the human parts of old ones do feel human 
> > desires, right? Whom does he mean as his masters by the way? I 
> mean, 
> > Merriman is one of the Old ones, master? Other old ones too?
<SNIP>
> Magpie:
> I have no idea who the Masters are--it's one of the mysteries of 
the 
> Old Ones! <SNIP>

Alla:

Oh. I see. Because I was confused. I thought there is some sort of 
gradation and the Older Old ones are Will's masters or something, but 
I guess there is some unknown to us entity, like higher master of 
Light or something, yes?


> Alla:
> > 
> > What else to ramble about? Love Bran with all his arrogance. 
> > Reminded me of Harry in OOP so much. Do wish he would slap Will, 
> > just for the sake of it.
> 
> Magpie:
> LOL. Slap Will for what? Maybe he was holding back because he 
didn't 
> have any other friends.;-)

Alla:

Just for the sake of it of being an old one :) I mean, dog would not 
have been killed had Will not come, no?

I mean, you right Bran got human friend though because Will came, and 
it is not Will's fault, but I thought slap will not hurt. I like 
slapping characters, you know me.
 
> Alla:
> > 
> > Eh, Merryman is one of the three Lords that watches Harp, is he 
> not? 
> > Tell me again, what was the whole point of Will??s quest to get 
it 
> > for the light? Couldn??t Merriman take it and give it to Will? I 
> find 
> > it very silly.
> 
> Magpie:
> See, now you're back to all those rules of High Magic that 
everybody 
> has to follow. Prophecy mutter mutter Old Speech mumble mumble.


Alla:

Oh. Ooops. My bad :)

May I ask another question of the same variety though? Light had the 
sign before it was given to Walker, no?

They or Merriman could not just give it to Will? They had to give it 
to somebody else to give it to Will? And I am not just talking about 
Walker's punishment, I am mainly wondering why the third person was 
needed for that, ANY third person, Walker or somebody else.

I do find it silly too, but as I said, I realise better not to think 
of those things, as I learned.

But maybe text indeed offers some reasoning and I missed it? 




From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Fri Sep 21 00:08:17 2007
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:08:17 -0000
Subject: HP fan Fiction
Message-ID: <fcv21h+jkkt@eGroups.com>

Hi all,

I just joined this group so I am not sure whether this topic has been
discussed - -if so please point me to the posts!

I am very curious about HP fanfiction and wondered if many others out
there were into it. It's interesting that people want to fill in the
blanks by creating their own fics, or that they change parts of the
plot (or create entirely new plots) or add bits to suit their own
tastes (and fantasies). Some of the fic I have read is really very
well written and some of the authors appear to be very talented at
plots. But a lot of it is awful...

So just wondering what people's views are of fanfic and if anyone out
there writes it, what is your motivation?

I should disclose here that I am doing some academic research on the
impact of Harry Potter fiction on moral development in children and
teens, and if anyone says anything interesting I may ask them if I can
quote them anonymously.

Thanks,
Sharon




From swartell at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 01:19:36 2007
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:19:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] York (was: The Beauforts...)
Message-ID: <133153.97802.qm@web53208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter@ yahoogroups. com, "Carol" <justcarol67@ ...> wrote:

 

 > Carol, who hopes to visit York some day

 

 Geoff Bannister replied:

 You'll love it.

<snipped a bunch of great recommendations>



now me:

I visited York for the first time last summer and heartily endorse everything that Geoff said.  I was awe-struck.  I'd never even thought about visiting York (chalk that up to American ignorance), but we took a tour that included it, and it is now at the very top of my list of places to return to.  I want days to spend there! 



York Minster is perhaps the loveliest building I have ever been in.  It took my breath away.  I could have spent an entire day there, and several more poking around in the Shambles, and hours more in the exhibits and displays at Jorvik, and that's not to mention that I only saw a tiny fraction of the city walls... 



Sue, wandering off to look at her photos from York again

















      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html



From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 01:33:14 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:33:14 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fct48k+63u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcv70q+f13d@eGroups.com>

-> > Carol, who doesn't know what Eccles cakes are and isn't sure she
wants to know
> >
> 
> Geoff:
> Actually, if you can't stand black pudding these are much more more-ish.
> 
> Theye are a small cake made with flaky containing raisins. My
mother's had to be eaten to be believed....
>
Carol:
But do they contain pig's blood? I thought that's what black pudding
was: blood sausage, and not a pudding in either the American sense (a
creamy, custardy kind of dessert) or the British sense (a general term
for dessert).

A small cake with raisins sounds okay, as long as the cake is made of
flour, sugar, shortening, eggs, and other standard ingredients.

Carol, who can't tell from Geoff's description whether the cakes are
delicious or barely edible




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 01:41:33 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:41:33 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fct4ij+93ut@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcv7gd+bcni@eGroups.com>

> > Carol, who hopes to visit York some day
> 
> Geoff:
> You'll love it. 
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> I personally believe it is the most beautiful city in the UK. <snip>
> 
> If you do visit, make sure you take two or three hours out just to
walk round the city walls. you won't regret it.
> 
> Then, there's the Castle Museum. the National Railway Museum, the
Minster and the Jorvik exhibition just for starters.....
> 
> Geoff
> who always gets carried away talking about York.

Carol responds:
Isn't there a big river with sturgeon in it? And the people speak with
heavy Northern accents?

That's the way I picture it. The Londoners of Richard's time thought
that the Northerners were uncouth, but IMO they were mistaken.

I've heard of York Minster, but what is the Jorvik exhibition?

Carol, who wishes that American cities were as steeped in history as
British ones, but even Salem dates only to the seventeenth century





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 01:52:52 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:52:52 -0000
Subject: HP fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <fcv21h+jkkt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcv85k+93tp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <s.hayes at ...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> I just joined this group so I am not sure whether this topic has 
been
> discussed - -if so please point me to the posts!
> 
> I am very curious about HP fanfiction and wondered if many others 
out
> there were into it. It's interesting that people want to fill in 
the
> blanks by creating their own fics, or that they change parts of the
> plot (or create entirely new plots) or add bits to suit their own
> tastes (and fantasies). Some of the fic I have read is really very
> well written and some of the authors appear to be very talented at
> plots. But a lot of it is awful...
> 
> So just wondering what people's views are of fanfic and if anyone 
out
> there writes it, what is your motivation?
> 
> I should disclose here that I am doing some academic research on 
the
> impact of Harry Potter fiction on moral development in children and
> teens, and if anyone says anything interesting I may ask them if I 
can
> quote them anonymously.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sharon
>


Alla:

Hi Sharon :) Welcome to OTC. It is totally a place to ask about 
fanfic, we talk about it here and about many other things. Anything 
completely unrelated to HP, or anything related but not completely 
canon :)

Heee, so yes, anything.

I came to fanfic world (as a reader, not a writer) for two reasons. 
The first one is probably very common for many people - I could not 
stand the long wait between GoF and OOP ( I read first four books 
somewhere in 2001) and started to look for stories to read. Second 
one is more specific - I wanted to read Snape/Sirius slash which I 
knew I will never get in canon.

I mean, I love story with no romance at all, as long as it is well 
written, but oh how I loved some of the stories with this pairing.

I still remember the first fanfic story I ever read - it was a 
really really good slash by Avocado and it was called "Quite good 
enough to be going with". Loved.

I found many gems during the years. Some superb writers, and for me 
the older they are the better - their life experience shines through 
and some of them write so well.

Ozma, Jelsemium, Bored Beyond Belief, Krtshadow, those are writers 
whose stories I will read at any given time.

Fabula Rasa one of my all time favorite Snape/Black writers, but at  
the same time, percentage wise, the good authors IMO are indeed not 
that easy to find.

I agree with you - a lot of it is awful. When I randomly search for 
the story on ff.net and see a lot of stories that I want to scream 
at the authors for - GO and study English more, that is not a good 
thing, you know?

Because I am not a native speaker, and I can write run on sentences 
and make grammar mistakes, etc, etc. And when I cringe starting to 
read the story, well, trust me, the story is really bad then.

Because I am really really prepared to disregard lots of stuff, as 
long as I do not cringe grammar wise :)

And of course there are plenty of stories with awful, just awful 
plots and characterisations. Why do authors are so intent on writing 
so many Mary Sues, eh? I have no answer.

JMO,

Alla




From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Fri Sep 21 02:01:49 2007
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:01:49 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HP fan Fiction
Message-ID: <20070921120149.CUF08199@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>

Alla said:
I came to fanfic world (as a reader, not a writer)
for two reasons.
The first one is probably very common for many
people - I could not
stand the long wait between GoF and OOP ( I read
first four books
somewhere in 2001) and started to look for stories
to read. Second
one is more specific - I wanted to read
Snape/Sirius slash which I
knew I will never get in canon.
<SNIP>

And of course there are plenty of stories with
awful, just awful
plots and characterisations. Why do authors are so
intent on writing
so many Mary Sues, eh? I have no answer.

Sharon:

Thanks for your reply. I thought Slash referred to
homoerotic ff, so I guess I had the wrong end of
the stick there, thanks for clearing that up. I
will check out those authors you suggest. I am
still not sure though, just what a Mary Sue is --
from what I can gather, it's a perfect character,
right? Like someone who's the perfect hero with no
flaws?  Sorry for my ignorance.

Personally I am drawn (surprise, surprise) to the
Draco/Hermione ff, simply because I yearned to see
Draco redeemed in the books and there is lots of
fic where Hermione helps him redeem himself. Mind
you, I haven't read all that much ff as yet. But I
am working on it!  Some of the authors, as you
say, are so completely inept at writing complete
sentences, grammar, syntax, and many of them don't
get the "feel" of the character well enough so
they're completely unbelievable.

Sharon, who is from Oz and can't wait to visit
London and Edinburgh next year.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 02:12:56 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:12:56 -0000
Subject: HP fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <20070921120149.CUF08199@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <fcv9b8+p84m@eGroups.com>

> Sharon:
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I thought Slash referred to
> homoerotic ff, so I guess I had the wrong end of
> the stick there, thanks for clearing that up. I
> will check out those authors you suggest. I am
> still not sure though, just what a Mary Sue is --
> from what I can gather, it's a perfect character,
> right? Like someone who's the perfect hero with no
> flaws?  Sorry for my ignorance.


Alla:

Oh NO NO NO. I am afraid I confused you, LOL. Slash IS homoerotic 
fanfic. It can be graphic or not. I will read graphic slash, but 
only if it is within the story, interesting story, I do not care 
much for PWP stories ( just sex scenes, basically, no other plot).

It is just slash stories are only one genre I like and the names I 
gave you, all but two are the writers who write general stories.

OMG, do check out Ozma, she had one of the most UNIQUE character 
development ever, but soooo believable. Too bad she does not post on 
ff.net anymore.

She narrated from Filch POV and her stories had such amasing 
POtterverse feel. And the character development - perfect. Her 
Filtch changed so much from her first story to the last. I adore her 
writings.

Mary Sue is a perfect character and author self insertion often - go 
to ff.net, see the summary of girls or boys coming to Potterverse, 
with you know - knowledge of all magic ever, beatiful, brilliant, 
saving the world, blah blah blah.


> Personally I am drawn (surprise, surprise) to the
> Draco/Hermione ff, simply because I yearned to see
> Draco redeemed in the books and there is lots of
> fic where Hermione helps him redeem himself. Mind
> you, I haven't read all that much ff as yet. But I
> am working on it!  Some of the authors, as you
> say, are so completely inept at writing complete
> sentences, grammar, syntax, and many of them don't
> get the "feel" of the character well enough so
> they're completely unbelievable.
> 
> Sharon, who is from Oz and can't wait to visit
> London and Edinburgh next year.


Alla:

Heee sorry Draco/ Hermione are one of the few pairings I just refuse 
to read no matter how well they are written.






From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 02:15:07 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:15:07 -0000
Subject: HP fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <fcv9b8+p84m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcv9fb+7fif@eGroups.com>


Alla:
<SNIP>
> It is just slash stories are only one genre I like and the names I 
> gave you, all but two are the writers who write general stories.
<SNIP>

Alla:

And I cannot type. Slash stories are NOT the only genre I like.




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 02:22:54 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:22:54 -0000
Subject: Eccles Cakes and York
In-Reply-To: <fcv7gd+bcni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcv9tu+fug8@eGroups.com>

> > > Carol, who hopes to visit York some day
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > You'll love it. 
> > 
> > Seriously.
> > 
> > I personally believe it is the most beautiful city in the UK. 
<snip>

Goddlefrood:

It is rather picturesque. My brother was at the University there 
and my paternal forebears are from nearby. One of my Aunts runs 
a pub in York. It really is a worthwhile stop on any tour of the 
UK. Personally I prefer Chester, but's that may just be me.

> Carol responds:
> Isn't there a big river with sturgeon in it? And the people 
> speak with heavy Northern accents?

Goddlefrood:

No, no sturgeon any more, alas. The River Ouse, I beleive it is. 
The York accent has been a little diluted due to the gentrification 
of the city, however it might still be unfathomable to many of our 
American friends.

> Carol:
> I've heard of York Minster, but what is the Jorvik exhibition?

Goddlefrood:

York was a viking centre and the Jorvik exhibition recreates that 
time and has all things Viking contained in it. Iird it's near the 
Minster, but then York city centre is quite small and contained.

As to the query on Eccles cakes, which I respond to here, they are 
basically a pastry filled with raisins that originated in Eccles in 
Lancashire. If you want a real treat though, track down a Bakewell 
Pudding. If you could do this in Bakewell itself you couldn't go far 
wrong, they are delicious and no unusual ingredients would be found 
in them.

Goddlefrood, who loves black pudding and is saddened by its 
unavailability in Fiji.




From jeopardy18 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 21 02:35:50 2007
From: jeopardy18 at comcast.net (seanmulligan2000)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:35:50 -0000
Subject: HP fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <fcv21h+jkkt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcvam6+qcg8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <s.hayes at ...> wrote:

> 
> > 

Sean Mulligan

> So just wondering what people's views are of fanfic 
Its one of my favorite types of fanfiction and I read it all the time. 





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 21 06:32:42 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:32:42 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcv70q+f13d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcvoia+p5p3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> -> > Carol, who doesn't know what Eccles cakes are and isn't sure she
> wants to know
> > >
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > Actually, if you can't stand black pudding these are much more more-ish.
> > 
> > Theye are a small cake made with flaky containing raisins. My
> mother's had to be eaten to be believed....
> >
> Carol:
> But do they contain pig's blood? I thought that's what black pudding
> was: blood sausage, and not a pudding in either the American sense (a
> creamy, custardy kind of dessert) or the British sense (a general term
> for dessert).
> 
> A small cake with raisins sounds okay, as long as the cake is made of
> flour, sugar, shortening, eggs, and other standard ingredients.
> 
> Carol, who can't tell from Geoff's description whether the cakes are
> delicious or barely edible

Geoff:
Sorry, the word 'pastry' should have followed 'flaky".

The fact I said they are 'more-ish' answers your last question. Perhaps 
you haven't met the term - it's an English colloquialism for absolutely 
scrumptious.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 21 06:37:11 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:37:11 -0000
Subject: The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcv7gd+bcni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcvoqn+tpv8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> > > Carol, who hopes to visit York some day
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > You'll love it. 
> > 
> > Seriously.
> > 
> > I personally believe it is the most beautiful city in the UK. <snip>
> > 
> > If you do visit, make sure you take two or three hours out just to
> walk round the city walls. you won't regret it.
> > 
> > Then, there's the Castle Museum. the National Railway Museum, the
> Minster and the Jorvik exhibition just for starters.....
> > 
> > Geoff
> > who always gets carried away talking about York.
> 
> Carol responds:
> Isn't there a big river with sturgeon in it? And the people speak with
> heavy Northern accents?

Geoff:
There are two rivers, the Ouse and the Foss, which meet in the centre of 
the city  - the Ouse being the main one. 

The Yorkshire accent, like most regional accents, varies. In the rural areas, 
it is heavy but lighter in the towns.

Carol: 
> I've heard of York Minster, but what is the Jorvik exhibition?

Geoff:
It is the big exhibition based on the Viking remains, unearthed in 
the city about 30 years ago. Jorvik is the name from which York came.





From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Fri Sep 21 09:23:27 2007
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:23:27 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Beauforts Re: reverse
 dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
Message-ID: <20070921192327.CUF58948@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>


Geoff said:
>   The fact I said they are 'more-ish' answers your
>   last question. Perhaps
>   you haven't met the term - it's an English
>   colloquialism for absolutely
>   scrumptious.

Sharon:
We use the same term here in Oz (Australia). I take 'more-ish' to mean that it's so 
good you want more and more! Those who live across the pond, however, probably 
think it means something to do with prairies or fields (moors) LOL.



From anita_hillin at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 13:00:51 2007
From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (anita_hillin)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:00:51 -0000
Subject: Planification? (Speaking of invented words...)
Message-ID: <fd0fa3+4ggg@eGroups.com>

I've enjoyed reading the thread about language, and I think it's
attuned my ear to aberrations, which is why this latest one jumped out
at me from the car radio on my way to work this morning.

I was listening to NPR (National Public Radio, if you're not from the
US), and they were interviewing Bernard Kouchner, who is the Foreign
Minister for France, I think?  He's meeting with Condoleeza Rice later
this morning, at any rate.  The interviewer was asking about France's
policy on Iran, and I could SWEAR he said, "We have no plan and no
planification for invading Iran."  

I will say, I was a little distracted from driving when I heard that
one.  (His English was otherwise excellent.)  I have never studied
French, so could he have made a literal translation of a legitimate
French word?  

Hmm, I'm going to have to find a place to use "planification," just
for fun.

akh, who is grateful that her boss is something of a language purist




From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 14:23:21 2007
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:23:21 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Beauforts Re: reverse dictionary (was: "Herb - Now Aluminum")
In-Reply-To: <fcv70q+f13d@eGroups.com>
References: <fct48k+63u@eGroups.com> <fcv70q+f13d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40709210723j42faca63s327e029f515f6866@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Carol:
> But do they contain pig's blood? I thought that's what black pudding
> was: blood sausage, and not a pudding in either the American sense (a
> creamy, custardy kind of dessert) or the British sense (a general term
> for dessert).
>
> A small cake with raisins sounds okay, as long as the cake is made of
> flour, sugar, shortening, eggs, and other standard ingredients.
>
> Carol, who can't tell from Geoff's description whether the cakes are
> delicious or barely edible


montims:
jumping in on Geoff's territory, though he is doing very well by himself,
and doesn't need me pushing my way in:

black pudding is indeed a delicious (IMO!) savoury sausage which can be
eaten hot or cold - I personally love it sliced cold, with the little hard
bits of fat in it...  but it is also very good fried...   I think it is
called pudding despite the fact that it is not sweet, because it is boiled
or steamed in its skin to cook it (Geoff?  Would that make sense?)  as in
England, anything that is steamed in a pudding bowl can be called pudding
(or pudden) - including my other favourite - steak and kidney pudding.  I
yearn for that in the states, as I do for real fish and chips.  Ah well...
Actually, yorkshire pudding is neither sweet nor steamed, so the definition
of "pudding" is arbitrary, it seems.

As for eccles cakes, don't be confused by the term cake - it is not what
Americans know as cake.  (And by the way - any Americans visiting Britain -
be aware that "coffee cake" means cake that tastes of coffee.  I love that
too, and was so disappointed in America the first time I had coffee cake and
it tasted of cinnamon, which I hate.  Brits - in America, "coffee cake" is
cake to be eaten while drinking coffee...)  Anyway - eccles cakes are flaky,
as Geoff said, and rich and delicious.  Please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccles_cake and
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/870/845359.JPG and
http://www.salford.gov.uk/living/yourcom/salfordlife/aboutsalford/salfordlocalhistory/localhistory-eccles/ecclescakes.htm

The Jorvic centre http://www.jorvik-viking-centre.co.uk/index2.htm is a
wonderful recreation of York in the Viking Age.
http://www.ukattraction.com/yorkshire/jorvik-centre.htm  And Geoff never
mentioned the Shambles - http://www.yorkshambles.com/  - squint a little,
and it could be Hogsmeade...  And of course, you must visit the Moors, and
nearby Sherwood Forest, and so much more.

I lived in South Yorkshire for 5 years before coming to America - loved the
architecture and the landscape, as did my (American) husband,  But while I
assumed the Yorkshire, Derbyshire or Nottinghamshire dialects of whomever I
was talking to, my husband hated to hear it - to him it sounded clashing,
and lazy...  He particularly hated to hear children speaking it.  I place
Snape firmly in the terraced streets of oop north, and superimpose Spinners
End over D H Lawrence's Nottingham streets.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 17:09:35 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:09:35 -0000
Subject: Movie Recommendation - The Lookout
Message-ID: <fd0tsf+drlh@eGroups.com>

Last weekend I saw what I think was an outstanding movie.

The Lookout

Starring Joseph Gordon-Levitt (Tommy - 'Third Rock').

I've been a big Joseph Gordon-Levitt fan since I saw
his outstanding dramatic performance in 'Sweet Jane'
where he plays a boy dying of AIDS who is befriended
by an HIV-positive heroin addict played by Samantha
Mathis. Both did a truly outstanding job in this
movie and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that
Joseph Gordon-Levitt truly has the 'chops' to play a
serious dramatic role. 

Since then I have been following his career which has
consisted of serious independent films of outstanding
quality.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt's IMDB filmography listing -
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330687/

Here is a brief synopsis of the movie 'The Lookout'
also starring Jeff Daniels, Mathew Goode, and 
Isla Fisher.

"An admired high school hockey player (Joseph Gordon-
Levitt) with a bright future foolishly takes a drive 
in the night with his girl friend and two other friends
with his headlights off with devastating results. The 
former athlete is left with a brain injury that prevents
him from remembering many things for extended periods 
of time. To compensate, he keeps notes in a small 
notebook to aid him in remembering what he is to do."

"Thus he works as a night cleaning man in a bank. It is
there he comes under the scrutiny of a gang planning to
rob the bank. The leader (Matthew Goode) befriends him 
and gets him involved with a young woman (Isla Fisher) 
who further reels him in."

"After realizing he is being used, he attempts to stop
the robbery, which of course immediately goes awry."

This is a very suspenseful dramatic movie with 
engaging characters and a captivating story. Unlike
other Hollywood stories, this one comes off as very 
believable. As the end of the story played out I
found myself, heart pounding, on the edge of my 
seat. Despite the action and suspense, the story
is also very touching.

For those who love independent films, and grow weary
of the standard Hollywood fair, I whole heartedly
recommend this movie which is currently available in
video stores.

For true fans of independent film, I also highly 
recommend these Joseph Gordon-Levitt films -

Brick (2005)- an excellent story that won the Sundance
Special Jury Prize for Originality of Vision. To
some extent this is a concept film. They have written
a gritty detective story that plays out at a high
school. Again, you can find a synopsis at IMDB

Mysterious Skin (2004) - the story of two boys who 
were abused by their baseball coach and how that 
still impacts their lives many years later.

Manic (2001) - the story of a trouble boy who is 
sent to an mental institution for attacking another
boy at school. 

Sweet Jane (1998) - as mentioned above.

These are the finest in independent films, and are 
certainly far and away above the standard Hollywood
fair that you typically see in the theaters. 

Normally, I would bother to mention this, and just
keep my personal taste in movies to myself, but the
character of Chris Pratt was so engaging and 
sympathetic, and the story rang so true, I just 
couldn't help myself. 

Considering that I now live in a small town I consider
myself luck to have stumbled across a gem like this.

Steve/bboyminn




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Sep 21 19:01:46 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:01:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Planification? (Speaking of invented words...)
In-Reply-To: <fd0fa3+4ggg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c7fc81$dbb4d2f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

I just saw something in a package tracking update that totally cracked me
up.  It was a USPS (United States Postal Service) tracking update and it
noted that my package "Arrived at Sortation Center."  Uh--yeah--how about
just "sorting center?"  Nooooo...a new word is born: "Sortation!"

Smiles,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 22:33:47 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:33:47 -0000
Subject: "More-ish" (Was: The Beauforts Was: reverse dictionary )
In-Reply-To: <20070921192327.CUF58948@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <fd1gsb+quv7@eGroups.com>

Geoff wrote:
> >   The fact I said they are 'more-ish' answers your last question.
Perhaps you haven't met the term - it's an English colloquialism for
absolutely scrumptious.
> 
 addedSharon:
> We use the same term here in Oz (Australia). I take 'more-ish' to
mean that it's so good you want more and more! Those who live across
the pond, however, probably think it means something to do with
prairies or fields (moors) LOL.
>
Carol responds:

Thanks, both of you. I thought it meant "somewhat more" in relation to
some adjective in the quoted post, only there was no such adjective,
only "somewhat more-ish" than black pudding, which I still find to be
revolting based solely on its contents. I certainly didn't expect it
to mean "scrumptious," though Sharon's definition/etymology makes
sense of that meaning.

I did think of "moors" even though "more" and "moor" aren't homonyms
for me (neither are "pore" and "poor"). I also thought (with distaste)
of Sir Thomas More, More-ish being a quality of which I'd like to see
less-ish. <g>

Also "noonish" and "elevenish," even though there's no connection:
"around noon" or "around eleven" makes perfect sense, but "around
more" just confused me.

Carol, still wondering whether Geoff places black pudding in the
"more-ish" category along with Eccles cakes




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 22:53:14 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:53:14 -0000
Subject: Planification? (Speaking of invented words...)
In-Reply-To: <fd0fa3+4ggg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd1i0q+8plp@eGroups.com>

anita_hillin wrote:
<snip>
> 
> I was listening to NPR (National Public Radio, if you're not from
the US), and they were interviewing Bernard Kouchner, <snip> and I
could SWEAR he said, "We have no plan and no planification for
invading Iran."  
> 
<snip>
> Hmm, I'm going to have to find a place to use "planification," just
for fun.

Carol responds:

"Planification?" I love it. I wonder whether the verb form is
"planify" (analoguous to "stratify"/"stratification") or "planificate"
(a direct back formation). And would it mean "plan to plan"?

As for "Sortation Center" (Lee's response, which I didn't quote here),
we'll just have to write to the postal service and tell them it's
"Sortification Center," where they "sortify" (or is it "sortificate"?)
the mail. Right, Lee?

Carol, who is, of course, joking and hopes this doesn't post twice
because she may have hit "Send" prematurely when the phone rang




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Sep 22 00:27:18 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:27:18 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Planification? (Speaking of invented
 words...)
In-Reply-To: <fd1i0q+8plp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c7fcaf$55aebda0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Carol (more than "JustCarol") wrote]: :-)
| As for "Sortation Center" (Lee's response, which I didn't 
| quote here), we'll just have to write to the postal service 
| and tell them it's "Sortification Center," where they 
| "sortify" (or is it "sortificate"?) the mail. Right, Lee?

[Lee]:
Oh, Absitively Posolutely!  <LOL!>

Now, Carol, which one of us will write the new dictionary of inventionized
and patentificated words? <Evil Grin>

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Sep 22 01:44:24 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 01:44:24 -0000
Subject: "More-ish" (Was: The Beauforts Was: reverse dictionary )
In-Reply-To: <fd1gsb+quv7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd1s1o+a36r@eGroups.com>


> 
> Carol, still wondering whether Geoff places black pudding in the
> "more-ish" category along with Eccles cakes


Potioncat:
I'm adding more-ish to my vocabulary!

As for black pudding---well, it can't be any worse than the fatback I 
used to eat in South Carolina or the scrapple my husband used to eat in 
New Jersey.

Neither of us eat either of those now.





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 02:29:54 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:29:54 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
Message-ID: <fd1un2+bdfp@eGroups.com>

Yeah, I know I just cannot stop talking about these books, but I 
promise, I will stop soon, I just need to let it it all out :)

So, I finished over under. I love the books, I really do and Will's 
character is still sympathetic and fascinating for me, but OMG I 
cannot stand Merryman and I realised what is the main reason - I see 
no remorse, none.

Yes, yes, I know he is like God, but as I said all those references 
to human parts of the old ones, make me think that it is not totally 
unfair to think of them as humans, since they at least have some 
human parts in them and often live like humans and interact with 
them, etc.

But even if it is totally unfair, I cannot help myself.

To go back to Dumbledore for a second, I think that he behaved 
coldly and manipulatively towards Snape and towards Harry.

Of course I saw no remorse about Dumbledore's treatment towards 
Snape, but that's the thing, it does not put me off Dumbledore 
because I think Snape totally asked for and deserved how Dumbledore 
treated him.

I think Dumbledore also behaved coldly and manipulatively towards 
Harry, but I bought into his struggle between his love for Harry and 
plan and what is more important, I bought his remorse, since Harry 
contrary to Snape in my view totally did not deserve to be treated 
as weapon and if Dumbledore was not remorseful, I would hate him.

I realised something else which I think Merriman did deliberately 
and if I am correct, all more reasons for me to hate him.

I mean, again, I totally do not think he is like Voldemort or 
anything, I think he has best interests of humans in mind, it is 
just the means I hate.

So, to back track for a second - I totally love Cooper's take on 
Arthur/ Guinnevere/ Lancelot thing. I loved that she so absolutely 
unambigious on Guinnevere betraying Arthur, betraying his great 
trust and all that. That was always been my take on it. Not that I 
did not pity her, but I certainly had always little pity to spare 
for Lancellot.

Anyways, so here is my thing. Did Merriman choose the time for Gwen 
to bring Bran out of time deliberately, **knowing** that the boy 
would have destiny to play and battle to fight?

Did he even manipulate Gwen ( in Cooper take on the myth of course) 
that  she needs to hide Bran?

Um, as far as I remember variation of myth that I read, didn't 
Arthur forgive them both eventually?

What the heck would give her the idea that he would cast out the 
child if he would even think the boy is not his?

Did Merryman by any chance put it in her mind? HATE if he did and 
forced Bran to grow up there instead of with his real father.

I mean, his adopted father loves him, but seems like Arthur loves 
him very much too, no?


Oh yeah cannot stand memory loss of Drews and Bran of course.


LOVE how Cooper beatifully, beatifully waves antibigotry message in 
Stephen defending immigrant boy and taking a stand against the 
father of the offender.

LOVE.

Alla  





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 22 16:15:42 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:15:42 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd1un2+bdfp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd3f3e+jqvt@eGroups.com>

Alla:
> Um, as far as I remember variation of myth that I read, didn't 
> Arthur forgive them both eventually?
> 
> What the heck would give her the idea that he would cast out the 
> child if he would even think the boy is not his?
> 
> Did Merryman by any chance put it in her mind? HATE if he did and 
> forced Bran to grow up there instead of with his real father.
> 
> I mean, his adopted father loves him, but seems like Arthur loves 
> him very much too, no?
> 
> 
> Oh yeah cannot stand memory loss of Drews and Bran of course.

Magpie:
I feel like he must have put Bran in the time he chose for a reason. 
Maybe not to fight...or maybe for that reason. I thought of him sort 
of putting him with Will on purpose, at least. Bran is a little older 
than Will--maybe less than a year, maybe a year, but it would make 
sense for Merriman to know the time Will would be born. Or maybe he 
just went to the time that seemed "right" to his Light senses. But it 
doesn't seem like a coincidence, at least. 

I can't picture him manipulating Gwen to actually think Bran would be 
rejected, just because, I don't know, that seems a bit too humanly 
manipulative. Will is wonderfully manipulative sometimes, but not in 
a mean way--he just knows his family well and so knows how they'll 
react to things. It's normal stuff for the smallest kid in a big 
family, I just love it when he does it. But I can't imagine him 
causing strife between people--that seems like stuff that the Dark 
does. I can see Merriman just agreeing to do what Gwen asks knowing 
it suits his purposes.

It's funny that for me I like Merriman more because he has no remorse-
-not because I have a problem wtih remorse, but because it seems like 
he does things because he thinks they're right, and since he thought 
they were right he can't regret them. He might regret hurting people, 
but he would still stand by his decision. Dumbledore bugs me because 
of exactly the stuff you seem to like about him. He seems to kind of 
want to be cuddly and at the same time do these coldly manipulative 
things, and get the support of Harry and be all tearful about it. 

Alla:
> 
> 
> LOVE how Cooper beatifully, beatifully waves antibigotry message in 
> Stephen defending immigrant boy and taking a stand against the 
> father of the offender.

Magpie:
I love that whole afternoon with the Stantons and how she shows them 
as just basically good people in the way they care about other people 
and each other--without being soppy or humorless. Like just Gwen 
giving Will a plate of something because she can see he was upset by 
the racist neighbor, even if it's because she's mistaken about just 
how he feels. This is of course why I'm so angry at the kind of 
conflict they seem to be putting into the family in the movie.

-m





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 16:37:38 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:37:38 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd3f3e+jqvt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd3gci+97sl@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> > 
> > 
> > LOVE how Cooper beatifully, beatifully waves antibigotry message 
in 
> > Stephen defending immigrant boy and taking a stand against the 
> > father of the offender.
> 
> Magpie:
> I love that whole afternoon with the Stantons and how she shows 
them 
> as just basically good people in the way they care about other 
people 
> and each other--without being soppy or humorless. Like just Gwen 
> giving Will a plate of something because she can see he was upset 
by 
> the racist neighbor, even if it's because she's mistaken about 
just 
> how he feels. This is of course why I'm so angry at the kind of 
> conflict they seem to be putting into the family in the movie.
> 
> -m


Alla:

Oh yeah, I want to cry, LOL when I think that instead of that 
wonderful supporting family fol;ks who will see the movie will think 
that Will has bullies brothers and emotionally cold parents. 
Stantons, emotionally cold. Grrrrrrr

And is it confirmed that Max will be a traitor in the movie, or was 
it a bad joke? ( Somehow I think it is true, sigh)

Alla





From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 17:17:59 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:17:59 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd1un2+bdfp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd3io7+n1on@eGroups.com>

>Alla said:
 I love the books, I really do and Will's 
> character is still sympathetic and fascinating for me, but OMG I 
> cannot stand Merryman and I realised what is the main reason - I 
see 
> no remorse, none.
> (SNIP)
> To go back to Dumbledore for a second, I think that he behaved 
> coldly and manipulatively towards Snape and towards Harry.
> 
> Of course I saw no remorse about Dumbledore's treatment towards 
> Snape, but that's the thing, it does not put me off Dumbledore 
> because I think Snape totally asked for and deserved how 
Dumbledore 
> treated him.
> 
> I think Dumbledore also behaved coldly and manipulatively towards 
> Harry, but I bought into his struggle between his love for Harry 
and 
> plan and what is more important, I bought his remorse, since Harry 
> contrary to Snape in my view totally did not deserve to be treated 
> as weapon and if Dumbledore was not remorseful, I would hate him.
> 

marion11111:
I still go back to my argument that Merriman is less offensive to me 
because he is that way -  always - to everyone.  What you see is 
what you get.  Dumbledore is full of * as far as I'm concerned.  
Now, of course, I only came to this decision after HBP when it was 
clear as day to me that he set up the whole death scene and was 
hiding so much from Harry. I didn't buy the "I did it for love" 
story because he STILL didn't tell him the truth.  

> 
> Anyways, so here is my thing. Did Merriman choose the time for 
Gwen 
> to bring Bran out of time deliberately, **knowing** that the boy 
> would have destiny to play and battle to fight?

marion11111:
I'm sure he did.  It's about the battle and you're right, the people 
take a backseat.

> 
> Did he even manipulate Gwen ( in Cooper take on the myth of 
course) 
> that  she needs to hide Bran?

marion11111: 
I don't think he needed to.  Now, I've forgotten the details, but 
didn't she think Bran might be someone else's son?  Or did she think 
that Arthur would think that?  In any case, it was most likely not 
safe for him in his own time.  

> 
> What the heck would give her the idea that he would cast out the 
> child if he would even think the boy is not his?

marion11111:
I think at that time in history and when dealing with royal blood 
and the concept that it is a God-given birthright, a child not of 
his blood would be unacceptable as an heir.

> 
> Did Merryman by any chance put it in her mind? HATE if he did and 
> forced Bran to grow up there instead of with his real father.
> 
> I mean, his adopted father loves him, but seems like Arthur loves 
> him very much too, no?

marion11111:
I have to say that this notion in books that people LOVE someone 
they have never met is odd to me.  I love my adoptive parents.  They 
raised me, nutured me, have known me all my life. I have absolutely 
no love for my birth mother.  Never met her. If I met her I 
certainly wouldn't expect to love her.  Why would I?  DNA does not 
cause love.  If it did, there would be no abused children. I think 
some people love the idea of a blood offspring.  Arthur most likely 
loves that he has an heir.  He can't possibly love Bran yet.  Owen, 
however, does.

> 
> 
> Oh yeah cannot stand memory loss of Drews and Bran of course.

marion11111:
Yeah, agreed on this one.  And really, why was it necessary?

So, I looked at my schedule the weekend this movie mess comes out 
and I'm working all weekend.  Boo.  I'll have to wait until a 
weeknight to go.  If you see it first, so ahead and post.  I don't 
imagine spoilers will matter. :-)






From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 20:09:23 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:09:23 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd3io7+n1on@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd3spj+ehjh@eGroups.com>

marion11111:
> I still go back to my argument that Merriman is less offensive to 
me 
> because he is that way -  always - to everyone.  What you see is 
> what you get.  Dumbledore is full of * as far as I'm concerned.  
> Now, of course, I only came to this decision after HBP when it was 
> clear as day to me that he set up the whole death scene and was 
> hiding so much from Harry. I didn't buy the "I did it for love" 
> story because he STILL didn't tell him the truth.  
<SNIP>
>
magpie:
<SNIP>
It's funny that for me I like Merriman more because he has no 
remorse-
-not because I have a problem with remorse, but because it seems like
he does things because he thinks they're right, and since he thought
they were right he can't regret them. He might regret hurting people,
but he would still stand by his decision. Dumbledore bugs me because
of exactly the stuff you seem to like about him. He seems to kind of
want to be cuddly and at the same time do these coldly manipulative
things, and get the support of Harry and be all tearful about it.


Alla:

Right, I of course agree with you both that Merryman is consistent 
and that way to everybody.

The point I am wondering about, Magpie, is why would you find him 
more likable if he does not regret the things he thinks is right?

What I am trying to say is that I understand that his consistency 
makes it easier to deal with him in RL, or someone behaving like him 
at least, since he is a higher being or something and does not exist 
in RL, lol.

But if he does not regret the things that he done, because he thinks 
they are right, that makes him more sympathetic?

I mean, I am not asking you of course to defend perception of him as 
more likable, since it is personal taste.

What I AM asking you though is do you think that Merryman is a 
better "person" than Dumbledore is, you know?

As far as you could evaluate Merryman's human part of course.

I mean, Voldemort also does not regret things he did and thinks they 
are right, no?

It does not mean that I will like him for that.

Just as despite the fact that Merryman thinks he did everything 
right or almost everything right towards Walker, I do not buy it at 
all OR ( since I am not sure of that part) if he deliberately 
brought Bran in this time for him to fight the battle, I do not 
think it is right OR despite the fact when he erases kids memories 
because it is the only right thing to do ( paraphrase), I do not 
think that it is right at all.

Does that make sense? Dumbledore I see struggle, oh yes, I do, but 
it is the fact that he **knows** that he did so many wrong things 
even though for good purpose, in essence same as Merryman's purpose, 
that is what makes me feel for him.

That he KNOWS he did wrong. Merryman is arrogantly sure that he is 
right in everything in my opinion.

So, again, I totally get why it is easier to deal with someone like 
Merryman in RL than with someone like Dumbledore. I mean, one second 
he will be telling you how much he loves you and then he would tell 
you you have to die. OOOOPS.

It is just while I would know what to expect from Merryman, I would 
not call those things good ones either.

> marion11111:
> Yeah, agreed on this one.  And really, why was it necessary?
> 
> So, I looked at my schedule the weekend this movie mess comes out 
> and I'm working all weekend.  Boo.  I'll have to wait until a 
> weeknight to go.  If you see it first, so ahead and post.  I don't 
> imagine spoilers will matter. :-)
>


Alla:

Too bad they do not sell alcoholic beverages there. ;)

And I do not drink, basically. It is like glass of red whine once a 
month, "maybe"

Should tell you a lot that I want to drink something while watching 
this movie :)

I promise to post me crying, yes.




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 21:01:56 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:01:56 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd3spj+ehjh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd3vs4+6rfk@eGroups.com>

about it.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Right, I of course agree with you both that Merryman is consistent 
> and that way to everybody.
> 
> The point I am wondering about, Magpie, is why would you find him 
> more likable if he does not regret the things he thinks is right?
> 
> What I am trying to say is that I understand that his consistency 
> makes it easier to deal with him in RL, or someone behaving like 
him 
> at least, since he is a higher being or something and does not 
exist 
> in RL, lol.
> 
> But if he does not regret the things that he done, because he 
thinks 
> they are right, that makes him more sympathetic?
> 
> I mean, I am not asking you of course to defend perception of him 
as 
> more likable, since it is personal taste.
> 
> What I AM asking you though is do you think that Merryman is a 
> better "person" than Dumbledore is, you know?
> 
> As far as you could evaluate Merryman's human part of course.
> 

marion11111: 
I'm not magpie, but I am bored at work so if it's OK, I'll jump on 
this one too. :-)

I don't know that I'd especially like either one as a person.  I 
don't buy DD's remorse because after he says he feels bad he turns 
around and does something dishonest again. 

I would be terrified of Merriman but then I don't completely 
consider him human.  Will is initially frightened of him but when he 
himself becomes an Old One he isn't anymore.  We don't see many of 
his close personal relationships with normal people - just Hawkins 
and the Drew children.  To have some stranger snap at you or treat 
you impersonally isn't so awful  It's when it's someone you care 
about that it hurts.  What he did to Hawkins is horrible, he knows 
it is but as far as we know he has never betrayed someone like that 
before and may never have to again. And the Light paid a price for 
Merriman's mistreatment of Hawkins.  Of course, Hawkins paid a 
bigger price.

On a lesser scale, I see him also making use of the Drew children. 
They weren't endangered or betrayed the way Hawkins was , but I 
don't know if that's because Merriman learned from his mistake, 
learned not to get so close to people, protected them because they 
were young or if the opportunity just didn't come up. 

In my boredom, I just read another article about the upcoming movie 
and the director said that among the changes we have a "greater 
story arc" about Hawkins losing his soul.  Did I totally misread the 
book?  I didn't think Hawkins lost his soul.  He was punished, but I 
didn't think souls entered into it.  Of course, we will also have a 
fight in a church involving snakes.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 21:11:36 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:11:36 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd3vs4+6rfk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd40e8+48v8@eGroups.com>

> marion11111: 
> I'm not magpie, but I am bored at work so if it's OK, I'll jump on 
> this one too. :-)

Alla:

Cool :)

 
> I don't know that I'd especially like either one as a person.  I 
> don't buy DD's remorse because after he says he feels bad he turns 
> around and does something dishonest again. 

Alla:

Not trying to argue about DD, but just wondering when did he do 
wrong again after he asked for Harry's forgiveness at Kings Cross?

But really if you do not like **either** of them as a person, that 
POV I completely, completely get.

It is just to me they are so very similar in what they fight for and 
what they do in order to achieve their goals, you know?


They are all fighting a war in order to get rid of huge evil, right?

And they both seem willing to hurt some individual people as long as 
it helps them to achieve their goals. IMO anyways.

To me Dumbledore is more likeable, because he at least feels bad 
about hurting Harry, you know?

MArion:
> I would be terrified of Merriman but then I don't completely 
> consider him human.  Will is initially frightened of him but when 
he 
> himself becomes an Old One he isn't anymore.  We don't see many of 
> his close personal relationships with normal people - just Hawkins 
> and the Drew children.  To have some stranger snap at you or treat 
> you impersonally isn't so awful  It's when it's someone you care 
> about that it hurts.  What he did to Hawkins is horrible, he knows 
> it is but as far as we know he has never betrayed someone like 
that 
> before and may never have to again. And the Light paid a price for 
> Merriman's mistreatment of Hawkins.  Of course, Hawkins paid a 
> bigger price.
> 
> On a lesser scale, I see him also making use of the Drew children. 
> They weren't endangered or betrayed the way Hawkins was , but I 
> don't know if that's because Merriman learned from his mistake, 
> learned not to get so close to people, protected them because they 
> were young or if the opportunity just didn't come up. 

Alla:

Totally agree, totally.

 
> In my boredom, I just read another article about the upcoming 
movie 
> and the director said that among the changes we have a "greater 
> story arc" about Hawkins losing his soul.  Did I totally misread 
the 
> book?  I didn't think Hawkins lost his soul.  He was punished, but 
I 
> didn't think souls entered into it.  Of course, we will also have 
a 
> fight in a church involving snakes.
>


Alla:

OH dear, oh dear. Oh DEAR. It is getting worse now. Where where in 
the books is he losing his soul, Walker I mean?

Do I REALLY want to subject myself to this movie? Do I?




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 22 21:20:27 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:20:27 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd3spj+ehjh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd40ur+9f1v@eGroups.com>

> magpie:
> <SNIP>
> It's funny that for me I like Merriman more because he has no 
> remorse-
> -not because I have a problem with remorse, but because it seems 
like
> he does things because he thinks they're right, and since he thought
> they were right he can't regret them. He might regret hurting 
people,
> but he would still stand by his decision. Dumbledore bugs me because
> of exactly the stuff you seem to like about him. He seems to kind of
> want to be cuddly and at the same time do these coldly manipulative
> things, and get the support of Harry and be all tearful about it.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Right, I of course agree with you both that Merryman is consistent 
> and that way to everybody.
> 
> The point I am wondering about, Magpie, is why would you find him 
> more likable if he does not regret the things he thinks is right?

Magpie:
It's probably hard for me to think of it really being a rule of 
consistency or anything--it's probably just many things about both 
characters.

But I guess what bugs me more about Dumbledore is what seems to me 
sentimentality on top of what he's doing. Merriman is ready to be 
hated while Dumbledore feels bad and tells people he feels badly. Or, 
like in OotP you know I just think his whole speech reads 
like, "Okay, I'm going to tell you how everything is my fault. By 
which I mean I'm going to show what everbody else did wrong and so 
let me down and hopefully you'll feel sympathy for me." 

It's probably just a personal preference, but maybe it's that I don't 
look at the two and see Merriman not knowing he did wrong and 
Dumbledore knowing. On the contrary, it seems like Merriman knows he 
did what he had to do based on his fanatical principles--he knows how 
people might feel about what he did, but his loyalty isn't to 
individual people. Where as Dumbledore defends himself personally, 
seems to want to be sympathetic at the same time. It's like his 
ridiculous "...you were a little thinner than I'd like, but you 
weren't a pampered prince!" and then he shows up the Dursleys for one 
last showy display of playing Santa. Merriman seems like he is what 
he is--you can completely trust him as far as you can trust him, he's 
not messing with you. Dumbledore seems a lot more about his own 
personal shifting ideas about right and wrong. Merriman a creature of 
the Light. Dumbledore's his own Light.

-m




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep 22 21:50:39 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:50:39 -0000
Subject: "More-ish" (Was: The Beauforts Was: reverse dictionary )
In-Reply-To: <fd1gsb+quv7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd42nf+a9as@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Geoff wrote:
> > >   The fact I said they are 'more-ish' answers your last 
question.
> Perhaps you haven't met the term - it's an English colloquialism 
for
> absolutely scrumptious.
> > 
>  addedSharon:
> > We use the same term here in Oz (Australia). I take 'more-ish' to
> mean that it's so good you want more and more! Those who live 
across
> the pond, however, probably think it means something to do with
> prairies or fields (moors) LOL.
> >
> Carol responds:
> 
> Thanks, both of you. I thought it meant "somewhat more" in 
relation to
> some adjective in the quoted post, only there was no such 
adjective,
> only "somewhat more-ish" than black pudding, which I still find to 
be
> revolting based solely on its contents. I certainly didn't expect 
it
> to mean "scrumptious," though Sharon's definition/etymology makes
> sense of that meaning.
> 
> I did think of "moors" even though "more" and "moor" aren't 
homonyms
> for me (neither are "pore" and "poor"). I also thought (with 
distaste)
> of Sir Thomas More, More-ish being a quality of which I'd like to 
see
> less-ish. <g>
> 
> Also "noonish" and "elevenish," even though there's no connection:
> "around noon" or "around eleven" makes perfect sense, but "around
> more" just confused me.
> 
> Carol, still wondering whether Geoff places black pudding in the
> "more-ish" category along with Eccles cakes

Geoff:
Personally, having been brought up as a Northerner before being 
brainwashed when I later went to school in London, I like black 
pudding. It used to be very much a Northern 'thing' but nowadays 
often appears all over the country as part of that menu curiosity, 
the all-day breakfast.

I was however, suggesting it as a punishment, with the Eccles cake 
to take away the taste and lessen the severity...... kind and 
compassionate person that I am. Also modest.
:-))





From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 22:19:15 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:19:15 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd40e8+48v8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd44d3+tt0c@eGroups.com>


> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not trying to argue about DD, but just wondering when did he do 
> wrong again after he asked for Harry's forgiveness at Kings Cross?
> 


marion11111:
*grins* Well, nothing after that because Harry's busy fighting the 
forces of evil and then the book ends.  

I just found the whole "I don't tell you the truth Harry because I 
love you" then "Oh, I didn't tell the truth again"  then "Oh, I 
thought you and Snape would be Ok working together - my bad" and "I 
thought Voldemort was going to get into your head - I guess I should 
have told you earlier"  and "Ok, after I'm dead and it's too late 
for him to do anything about it, tell him he needs to die"  "But 
don't mention that he probably doesn't have to - I'm just 
manipulting him because we need a sacrifice"  "And by the way, 
Severus, when you pretended to kill me, it looks to the people who 
follow this kind of thing like you won this important wand - oh 
didn't I mention my special wand - so every power-hungry bad guy 
around will be after you.  Except of course Voldemort will get there 
first and kill you for it" to be a little too often a convenient 
excuse.

I was fine with him at first - lovable old guy - but then he just 
seemed a little too fond of controlling the outcome without telling 
people what he was doing. I have friends who were saying he was 
manipulating the whole show very early on, but I didn't see it until 
HBP.  





From dk59us at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 23 01:27:44 2007
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:27:44 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd3vs4+6rfk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd4feg+ppqi@eGroups.com>

marion11111wrote:
>
<much snipping>
> In my boredom, I just read another article about the upcoming movie 
> and the director said that among the changes we have a "greater 
> story arc" about Hawkins losing his soul.  Did I totally misread the 
> book?  I didn't think Hawkins lost his soul.  He was punished, but I 
> didn't think souls entered into it.  Of course, we will also have a 
> fight in a church involving snakes.
>

Maybe between now and next week they can change the title again--maybe
The Seeker: Snakes in a Church. (lol)  That would drop the pretense
that  it has any serious relation to Cooper's work.

I think it was Alla asked whether Max's treachery had been confirmed.
 I'm not sure we'll really know until next week--maybe he does an
"Edmund" and turns out OK in the end.

Cheers,

Eustace_Scrubb





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 23 02:09:58 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 02:09:58 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd4feg+ppqi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd4htm+8al3@eGroups.com>

> marion11111wrote:
> >
> <much snipping>
> > In my boredom, I just read another article about the upcoming 
movie 
> > and the director said that among the changes we have a "greater 
> > story arc" about Hawkins losing his soul.  Did I totally misread 
the 
> > book?  I didn't think Hawkins lost his soul.  He was punished, 
but I 
> > didn't think souls entered into it.  Of course, we will also 
have a 
> > fight in a church involving snakes.
> >
Eustace Scrubb:
> Maybe between now and next week they can change the title again--
maybe
> The Seeker: Snakes in a Church. (lol)  That would drop the pretense
> that  it has any serious relation to Cooper's work.
> 
> I think it was Alla asked whether Max's treachery had been 
confirmed.
>  I'm not sure we'll really know until next week--maybe he does an
> "Edmund" and turns out OK in the end.
> 
><SNIP>


Alla:

Hee, that would be appropriate title it seems. But I actually was 
wondering whether the fact that Max would do something that look 
like a traitorous is confirmed, you know? Not how it will turn out 
in the end even AND voula, at least from this synopsis it seems that 
it is confirmed.

I think I will go finish my red wine now:

http://wb.imdb.com/title/tt0484562/synopsis.



Now I have another question to ask, the answer to which scares me 
already.

Is it confirmed that Walker falls in love with Maggie?

Because OF COURSE we cannot just leave his treachery be as a result 
of dissapointment in beloved father figure, aren't we?

That's not exciting enough, not Hollywood like, me thinks.

NAH, him falling in love with the agent of dark AND losing his soul 
too would be so much COOLER.

Wine awaits me.

Alla





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 23 02:55:56 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 02:55:56 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd40ur+9f1v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd4kjs+pc0h@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> It's probably hard for me to think of it really being a rule of 
> consistency or anything--it's probably just many things about both 
> characters.
> 
> But I guess what bugs me more about Dumbledore is what seems to me 
> sentimentality on top of what he's doing. Merriman is ready to be 
> hated while Dumbledore feels bad and tells people he feels badly. 
Or, 
> like in OotP you know I just think his whole speech reads 
> like, "Okay, I'm going to tell you how everything is my fault. By 
> which I mean I'm going to show what everbody else did wrong and so 
> let me down and hopefully you'll feel sympathy for me." 
> 
> It's probably just a personal preference, but maybe it's that I 
don't 
> look at the two and see Merriman not knowing he did wrong and 
> Dumbledore knowing. On the contrary, it seems like Merriman knows 
he 
> did what he had to do based on his fanatical principles--he knows 
how 
> people might feel about what he did, but his loyalty isn't to 
> individual people. Where as Dumbledore defends himself personally, 
> seems to want to be sympathetic at the same time. It's like his 
> ridiculous "...you were a little thinner than I'd like, but you 
> weren't a pampered prince!" and then he shows up the Dursleys for 
one 
> last showy display of playing Santa. 

Alla:

Right, if it is a matter of personal preference, that is not 
possible to categorise, etc. If you say you just like Merryman 
better than Dumbledore just because you do, that is obviously 
completely valid response.

But I am still curious and almost seeing your POV, but not quite 
yet, IF we can categorise, of course.

You are saying that Merryman's loyalty is not to individual people 
and I agree, his loyalty is to humankind in general and light.

But did you got an impression that DD's loyalty IS to individual 
people? Because I totally did not, I felt that Harry is probably the 
first person ever he had gotten to love after his tragic fall out 
with his family and that pretty much became a conflict over what 
Dumbledore felt was his duty to do well by WW versus caring for well 
being of one boy.

Magpie:

Merriman seems like he is what 
> he is--you can completely trust him as far as you can trust him, 
he's 
> not messing with you. Dumbledore seems a lot more about his own 
> personal shifting ideas about right and wrong. Merriman a creature 
of 
> the Light. Dumbledore's his own Light.



Alla:

OOOOOO, I think I am getting closer to understanding, maybe. Would 
it be fair to say that you like Merryman better ( among other 
reasons) because he is accountable to **somebody** in his actions, 
probably to his mysterious Masters, while Dumbledore is a law in 
itself, basically?





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 23 15:51:11 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 23 Sep 2007 15:51:11 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/23/2007, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1190562671.8.82780.m54@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 23, 2007
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



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From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 23 17:44:34 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 23 Sep 2007 17:44:34 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/23/2007, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1190569474.303.44755.m2@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 23, 2007
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2007 
 Yahoo! Inc.
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From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 23 20:08:06 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:08:06 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd4htm+8al3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd6h36+mhas@eGroups.com>

> Eustace Scrubb:
> > Maybe between now and next week they can change the title again--
> maybe
> > The Seeker: Snakes in a Church. (lol)  That would drop the 
pretense
> > that  it has any serious relation to Cooper's work.
> > 
> > I think it was Alla asked whether Max's treachery had been 
> confirmed.
> >  I'm not sure we'll really know until next week--maybe he does an
> > "Edmund" and turns out OK in the end.
> > 
> ><SNIP>
> 
> 

marion11111:
Love it! Snakes in a church.  And maybe it will be an Edmund-style 
plot - I hope we get Turkish Delight and Father Christmas.


> Alla:
> 
> Now I have another question to ask, the answer to which scares me 
> already.
> 
> Is it confirmed that Walker falls in love with Maggie?
> 
> Because OF COURSE we cannot just leave his treachery be as a 
result 
> of dissapointment in beloved father figure, aren't we?
> 
> That's not exciting enough, not Hollywood like, me thinks.
> 
> NAH, him falling in love with the agent of dark AND losing his 
soul 
> too would be so much COOLER.
> 


marion11111:
Oh, Alla, I think we're way past wine by now.  I thinking 
hallucinogenics are needed.

I read another interview where the director/screenwriter chose to 
make Will American to emphasize his status as an "outsider."  I 
would guess that's also why we see mean siblings and parents.  But 
really, the part that was so interesting about Will is that he is 
perfectly happy as Will.  It's not like Harry Potter where going to 
Hogwarts is the only bright spot in his life.  Will doesn't need to 
be an Old One.  But he has no choice.  He will need to leave his 
family someday and see everyone he loves die.

I suppose they took the storyline where Hawkins is talking to Maggie 
just before he turns to the Dark and made it into a romance.  Blech.

I have no idea why Max needs to be bad.  Double blech.






From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 24 01:40:39 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:40:39 -0000
Subject: Dark is rising again - final post reread impression
In-Reply-To: <fd6h36+mhas@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd74in+g3a0@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> Oh, Alla, I think we're way past wine by now.  I thinking 
> hallucinogenics are needed.
> 
> I read another interview where the director/screenwriter chose to 
> make Will American to emphasize his status as an "outsider."  I 
> would guess that's also why we see mean siblings and parents.  But 
> really, the part that was so interesting about Will is that he is 
> perfectly happy as Will.  It's not like Harry Potter where going 
to 
> Hogwarts is the only bright spot in his life.  Will doesn't need 
to 
> be an Old One.  But he has no choice.  He will need to leave his 
> family someday and see everyone he loves die.

Alla:

So true that is.


> I suppose they took the storyline where Hawkins is talking to 
Maggie 
> just before he turns to the Dark and made it into a romance.  
Blech.
> 
> I have no idea why Max needs to be bad.  Double blech.
>


Alla:

But but but that was one conversation and am I dreaming or now 
Magpie became the girl at Will's school?

Is it the same one? And Walker will fall in love with her?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA




From random832 at fastmail.us  Tue Sep 25 03:55:15 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:55:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fcsss0+rqpq@eGroups.com>
References: <fcsss0+rqpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <46F886A3.5030806@fastmail.us>

Carol wrote:
> Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:
>>> Continuing on the subject of people frustrating me: I am certain
> that  when I say 'thin', the TH sounds a little bit like an F and when
> I say  'think', the TH sounds a little bit like an S. I could say
> words starting with TH all day and all the 'unvoiced' (is that right?)
> ones would sound like one of those two examples. <snip>
> 
> Random832 replied: 
>> Can you think of any two words that are pronounced _exactly_ the
> same, except for these two sounds?
> 
> Carol responds:
> At any rate, I can't think of any *exact* matches, but how about
> "bath" and "bathe"? The a changes from short to long, true, but the
> "th" changes along with it from unvoiced in "bath" to voiced in
> "bathe." If anyone can say both words with the same "th" sound,
> they're speaking some dialect I'm unfamiliar with.
> 
> Carol, wondering where the "e" added to her name came from

Random832:
No idea - but, I can think of plenty of exact pairs for voiced/voiceless 
"th" - "mouth" as noun vs verb is one. I was asking if there were any 
for her two different voiceless ones.



From random832 at fastmail.us  Tue Sep 25 04:09:33 2007
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:09:33 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] How to address mail to the UK
In-Reply-To: <230860.95971.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <230860.95971.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F889FD.9070807@fastmail.us>

kemper mentor wrote:
>  akh:
> 
> 
> I'm trying to standardize a new database, and our mailing addresses to
> 
>  folks in the UK are - well - all over the map, as it were.  Since a
> 
>  fair number of you are either in the UK or likely mail to the UK,
> 
>  what's the standard Country listing?  Our system uses England,
> 
>  Ireland, and UK, seemingly in random order (some English addresses are
> 
>  UK; some are England.  Ireland seems pretty consistently Ireland; I'm
> 
>  presuming it would say Northern Ireland if it were supposed to be UK.)
> 
>  
> 
>  Does it matter?  Am I fretting over nothing?  Or, should I change
> 
>  England Scotland and Wales to UK?  (I don't think I have any N Ireland
> 
>  addresses right now.) Enquiring minds want to know!

Apparently, you can leave them as-is, or write "United Kingdom" - NEVER 
write "UK" when addressing mail from the united states to britain, at 
least according to this site:
http://bitboost.com/ref/international-address-formats.html
WARNING: "UK" doesn't mean "United Kingdom" to the United States Postal 
Service!  Don't mark your mail "UK" or pick "UK" in most computerized 
postage/addressing systems if you want to send mail to Great Britain. 
The United States Postal Service has computer systems that use UK as an 
abbreviation for "Ukraine".

The universal postal union recommends "UNITED KINGDOM" or "ROYAUME-UNI". 
countries are always written in all uppercase.

The USPS, http://www.usps.com/international/addressingintlmail.htm
gives examples including "ENGLAND".

"ENGLAND" has worked for me in the past.

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/postal.html#uk is another useful 
resource. It recommends using the specific country name.

If sending from Canada, you apparently must use GREAT BRITAIN according 
to this site.

> 
> Kemper now:
> I think writing the country is more for postal workers of the mail-of-origin so they know which bin to throw the overseas mail in.
> 
> But I'm not a postal worker... just hazarding a guess.
> 
> Kemper
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> 
> 
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
> 
> The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them!
> http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2
> 
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 04:58:45 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 04:58:45 -0000
Subject: How to address mail to the UK
In-Reply-To: <46F889FD.9070807@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fda4i5+h7ok@eGroups.com>

> Random:

> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/postal.html#uk is another useful 
> resource. It recommends using the specific country name.
 
> If sending from Canada, you apparently must use GREAT BRITAIN 
> according to this site.

Goddlefrood:

Lucky the Canadians know what they're talking about, The Royal Mail 
might not. Great Britain is not a country, it's an island. Hopefully 
those in the frozen north are aware of that, particularly the ones 
working for its postal service.





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 14:44:35 2007
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:44:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: How to address mail to the UK
In-Reply-To: <fda4i5+h7ok@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <195780.74345.qm@web63402.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> > Random:
> 
> > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/postal.html#uk is
> another useful 
> > resource. It recommends using the specific country
> name.
>  
> > If sending from Canada, you apparently must use
> GREAT BRITAIN 
> > according to this site.
> 
> Goddlefrood:
> 
> Lucky the Canadians know what they're talking about,
> The Royal Mail 
> might not. Great Britain is not a country, it's an
> island. Hopefully 
> those in the frozen north are aware of that,
> particularly the ones 
> working for its postal service.

Sheryll:

I'm in Canada and have never put Great Britain on a
parcel or envelope going to the UK. I always just put
UK at the bottom and everything has arrived just fine.


Sheryll


      Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca




From dzny72 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 18:59:25 2007
From: dzny72 at yahoo.com (dzny72)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:59:25 -0000
Subject: Confused--help???
Message-ID: <fdblqd+6fli@eGroups.com>

Okay--I am basically putting this out there and hoping someone can 
explain better than what I have seen so far.  I just reread DH and am 
still not getting how Draco ended up being the "rightful master" of 
the Elder Wand, and how it recognized that Harry had taken Draco's 
original wand.  I have tried to read posts (only of OTC) and I am 
still confused.  Can someone either explain by pointing out specific 
parts in canon or direct me to a post that does so??
Thanks!!

Dzny




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep 25 20:01:46 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:01:46 -0000
Subject: Confused--help???
In-Reply-To: <fdblqd+6fli@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdbpfa+av4g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dzny72" <dzny72 at ...> wrote:
>
> Okay--I am basically putting this out there and hoping someone can 
> explain better than what I have seen so far.  I just reread DH and am 
> still not getting how Draco ended up being the "rightful master" of 
> the Elder Wand, and how it recognized that Harry had taken Draco's 
> original wand.  I have tried to read posts (only of OTC) and I am 
> still confused.  Can someone either explain by pointing out specific 
> parts in canon or direct me to a post that does so??
> Thanks!!
> 
> Dzny
>

Geoff:
Harry explains why Draco became the new master...

'"You still don't get it, Riddle. do you? Possessing the wand isn't 
enough! Holding it, using it, doesn't make it really yours. Didn't you 
listen to Ollivander? The wand chooses the wizard... the Elder Wand 
recognised  a new master before Dumbledore died, some one who 
never even laid a hand on it. The new master removed the wand 
from Dumbledore against his will, never realising exactly what he 
had done or that the world's most dangerous wand had given him 
its allegiance..."

Voldemort's chest rose and fell rapidly and Harry could feel the 
curse coming, feel it building in the wand pointed at his face.

"The true master of the Elder Wand was Draco Malfoy."'
(DH "The Flaw in the Plan" pp.594/95 UK edition)

The reference to never laying a hand on it points back to:

'The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and 
shouted: "Expelliarmus".

Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile...

...He could not understand how it had happened - 
Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -

Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand 
flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... 
Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilised Harry and the second 
he had taken to perform the spell had cost him the chance of 
defending himself.

Standing against the ramparts,very white in the face, Dumbledore 
still showed no sign of panic or distress. He merely looked across 
at his disarmer and siad "Good evening, Draco."'
(HBP "The LIghtning-Struck Tower" pp.545/46 UK edition)

That covers how Draco became the master; I can't recall any 
reference being made to who recovered the wand but we know that 
it was in Dumbledore's tomb until Voldemort breaks in and takes it:

'Had the old fool imagined that marble or death would protect the 
wand? Had he thought that the Dark Lord would be scared to violate 
his tomb? The spider-like hand swooped and pulled the wand from 
Dumbledore's grasp...'
(DH "The Wandmaker" p.405 UK edition)

I'm not sure how the elder wand recognised a change of allegiance 
to Harry. Ollivander explains that Draco's own wand would now obey 
Harry:

'"Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. 
This was the wand of Draco Malfoy."
"Was?" repeated Harry. "Isn't it still his?"
"Perhaps not. If you took it -"
"- I did -"
"- then it may be yours. Of course, the manner of taking matters. 
Much also depends on the wand itself. in general, however, where a 
wand has been won, its allegiance will change."....

...." I took this wand from Draco Malfoy by force,": said Harry."can I 
use it safely?"
"I tihkn so. Subtle laws govern wand ownership but the conquered 
wand will usually bend its will to its new master."'
(DH "The Wandmaker" from p.399 UK edition)

It seems that the change of allegiance by Draco's wand also affects 
the Elder Wand. It is on this fact that Harry risks the final 
confrontation with Voldemort:

'"...and after I have killed you, I can attend to Draco Malfoy..."
"But you're too late," said Harry."You've missed your chance. I got 
there first. I overpowered Draco weeks ago. I took this wand from 
him."

Harry twitched the hawthorn wand and he felt the eyes of everyone 
in the Hall upon it.

"So it all comes down to this, doesn't it?" whispered Harry. "Does 
the wand in your hand know its last master was Disarmed? Because 
if it does... I am the true master of the Elder Wand."....

....Harry heard the high voice shriek as he, too, yelled his best hope 
to the heavens, pointing Draco's wand:

"Avada Kedavra"
"Expelliarmus"'

(DH "The Flaw in the Plan" pp.595 UK edition)

The rest is history.

Hope this helps.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 20:56:52 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:56:52 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
Message-ID: <fdbsmk+15eu@eGroups.com>

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=20581

Interview with Christopher Eccleston

I was especially "intrigued" by this paragraph

"ComingSoon.net: Can you tell us a bit about the character you play 
in the movie?
Christopher Eccleston: The character of the Rider is the antagonist, 
the nemesis, the villain of the piece. He differs somewhat from the 
book. There's been some poetic license taken and there's an ability 
that the Rider has which he doesn't have in the book which would be 
slightly spoilerish but he's got a few surprises up his sleeve in how 
he manifests himself. I'm teasing, but I want that kind of thing to 
be an element of surprise for the audience."


Alla:

So let me guess. Maybe he can polyjuice himself into Will or Merryman?

And surprise everybody around?

Oh yeah, I am going to see this movie. My curiosity got the best of 
me.








From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 23:16:28 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:16:28 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdbsmk+15eu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdc4sc+hffl@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> 
> So let me guess. Maybe he can polyjuice himself into Will or Merryman?
> 
> And surprise everybody around?
> 
> Oh yeah, I am going to see this movie. My curiosity got the best of 
> me.
>

marion11111:
 Knowing how much they are changing in this film make it impossible to even guess.  
Something about how he "manifests himself."  I'm looking at his costume with feathers on 
the sleeves and I'll guess he turns into a rook.  I'll bet he flaps his arms and says Kaa Kaa.

This quote is also interesting:

"CS: What was it about him that appealed to you?
Eccleston: The spoiler thing actually. Yeah. When you see it, you'll understand. There's an 
opportunity with the Rider for humor and subversion and satire that I've not seen before in 
these kind of films, and it was that most of all. 99.9 percent of the dramas I've made have 
been for adults, and this was a real opportunity to try something new. I've had some 
experience with "Doctor Who" of making drama for children. I think it's a real important 
area if we can provide them complexity and gray area rather than just a fun fair ride. 
That's what appeals to me."

Humor and satire?  Did I read this correctly?   So what could they do with the Rider that's 
funny?  Yep - must be polyjuice. He becomes Max.  Or better yet - Maggie!  And then he 
seduces the Walker.  Heck, I could write a screenplay.

It just gets curioser and curiouser.





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 00:44:52 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:44:52 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdc4sc+hffl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdca24+g5b9@eGroups.com>


> > Alla:
> > 
> > So let me guess. Maybe he can polyjuice himself into Will or 
Merryman?
> > 
> > And surprise everybody around?
> > 
> > Oh yeah, I am going to see this movie. My curiosity got the best 
of 
> > me.
> >
> 
> marion11111:
>  Knowing how much they are changing in this film make it 
impossible to even guess.  
> Something about how he "manifests himself."  I'm looking at his 
costume with feathers on 
> the sleeves and I'll guess he turns into a rook.  I'll bet he 
flaps his arms and says Kaa Kaa.


Alla:

I spit my juice when I read it :) You are hilarious indeed.

BUT SHHHHHHH. Your guess maybe closer to the truth than you think ;)

Remember that awful trailer? I finally watched it and saw that scene 
in the mall where two guards catch Will supposedly for shoplifting.

Have you read the interview with the director where he says that 
those two men turn into rooks?

Well, if they can, I think Rider may do it too ;)

Just imagine during the Wild Hunt, they run after him and WHOOOSH, 
Walker is on the ground, and the big ROOOK is on the horse.  OH DEAR.



 
> This quote is also interesting:
> 
> "CS: What was it about him that appealed to you?
> Eccleston: The spoiler thing actually. Yeah. When you see it, 
you'll understand. There's an 
> opportunity with the Rider for humor and subversion and satire 
that I've not seen before in 
> these kind of films, and it was that most of all. 99.9 percent of 
the dramas I've made have 
> been for adults, and this was a real opportunity to try something 
new. I've had some 
> experience with "Doctor Who" of making drama for children. I think 
it's a real important 
> area if we can provide them complexity and gray area rather than 
just a fun fair ride. 
> That's what appeals to me."
> 
> Humor and satire?  Did I read this correctly?   So what could they 
do with the Rider that's 
> funny?  Yep - must be polyjuice. He becomes Max.  Or better yet - 
Maggie!  And then he 
> seduces the Walker.  Heck, I could write a screenplay.
> 
> It just gets curioser and curiouser.
>



Alla:

Well, Rook on the Horse could be pretty funny I suppose. I mean, 
let's forget the teensy fact that there is nothing funny about canon 
Rider - ZERO, NADA. I mean, even when I reread the books when I read 
the scenes with him, it is not really scary I won't read the book 
scary, but certainly has genuine scary feel.

Good and Evil evenly matched, isn't that one of the points? Not to 
make a mockery of Evil?


So, yeah, forget that teensy fact that he is not funny and then 
polyjuice does sound pretty good. I vote for him turning into Walker 
and seducing Merriman.

YAY me.




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 03:37:21 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:37:21 -0000
Subject: Way off, Buffy fans unite!
Message-ID: <fdck5h+rhof@eGroups.com>

FX has stopped showing Buffy in the mornings. We are not happy. Please, 
as fans of different fiction, sign the petition!

http://www.petitionspot.com/members/...petition=11591

If that doesn't work, please go to "The Petition Spot,Buffy"

Love, and thanks much! 
Alex Hogan




From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 04:22:18 2007
From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:22:18 -0000
Subject: I cannot believe this...
Message-ID: <fdcmpq+4k8j@eGroups.com>

Finally my youngest an read GOF and OOP actually she could read it 
for quite some time but was consumed with other works...

and the educators explatation as to why they cannot read it for or 
obtain any credit for it was, "because of the moveis"...NOW, We all 
know that most of both said books are not in any movie...so why 
remove them from the list?!?!?  MY kid can still read the entire 
bond series, Narnia series, Pullman series, Sherlock Holmses series 
etc.....

Now normally I wouldn't care...but definitely why keep all the books 
aside from those two? Is it becase they think the kids would cheat 
on their tests? Come on...we know movies four and five contain the 
least of the content of the previous books..(are you kidding 
me...Neville and Dobby are suddenly interchangeable?)

I'm sorry but given the text/vs. the movies...why take those two 
books off the list and let all other's remain???

I dunno, I think it's more about educators reading the same tired 
thing ...I could understand educator's limiting one HP book per year 
per student (as long as writings include three to five aspects not 
in the movies...none to hard for GOF and OOP....(the only two books 
they eliminated...OMG--could it be that the teachers are watching 
the movies and NOT reading the books--probably)..because we know 
it's not because of a movie...especially when they recommended "A 
Tree Grows in Brooklyn" and a movie has been made and King's Dream 
Catcher, movie again, and Jaws, Cujo,Carrie, movies again, and 
theres deeper, "Who's afraid of Virginia Woolfe", Charly, Christmas 
Carole/Scrooged, Hunchback of Notre Dame etc..etc. etc.....at the 
least have the kids submit a ballot....and have a drawing for the 
entire school to pick one HP book...I'm just upset that my kids 
teacher was up there preaching to us about humnanities and how we 
should let our honors lit kids read what they want but all of a 
sudden remove a set of books...just because of a "movie" which we 
all know that movie 3, 4 and 5 and less, and less and, less of the 
books w/in them...

Doddie




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 26 06:25:46 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:25:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I cannot believe this...
In-Reply-To: <fdcmpq+4k8j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c80006$1894fc40$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[doddiemoemoe]:
| ... should let our honors lit kids read what they want but all of a 
| sudden remove a set of books...just because of a "movie" which we 
| all know that movie 3, 4 and 5 and less, and less and, less of the 
| books w/in them...

[Lee]:
Well, IMHO, Movie 5 had a heck of a lot more of the book than 3 and 4!
Okay, I did miss Dobby, but they sure got Umbridge right and, even though
there were consolidations and changes, the spirit of the story was, again
IMHO, a lot truer than 3 and 4.

I am convinced that there are educators out there who need as much education
as those they're supposed to teach.  I'm glad I am not a kid in school
today...at least, in our public school system.

If I've stepped on toes with that last remark, I apologize, but it's just
the way I feel.

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 18:50:32 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:50:32 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdc4sc+hffl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fde9lo+ghcb@eGroups.com>

Marion1111:

<SNIP of the whole post>
 Heck, I could write a screenplay.
> 
> It just gets curioser and curiouser.


Alla:

Here dear, more help for your screen writing efforts:


http://movies.ign.com/articles/788/788993p1.html


"Names like Christopher Eccleston (Doctor Who) and Ian McShane 
(Deadwood) populate the cast list, but Cunningham cites the character 
of the Walker, as played by Jonathan Jackson (Riding the Bullet), as 
an example of how he hopes to appeal to a younger crowd.

"Even in the books, Walker was a young man who had aged and he'd gone 
back in time so long, so it was a matter of what was our emphasis 
going to be?" says the director. "The tragedy of a young man or the 
history of an old man? And we chose to focus on the previous and 
really make it about this guy who had this love for this girl and was 
completely screwed over, and had given his soul up for it. And so 
when he comes back, which we're shooting right now, he's back himself 
as a young man. [We're trying] to get into his head, his experience, 
and again, it's trying to reach out to the audience that we're going 
after, which is today's younger audience.""


Alla:

So THAT was what the story of Walker is all about?

NOW I know. 






From dk59us at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 19:23:55 2007
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:23:55 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdca24+g5b9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdebkb+4ngk@eGroups.com>

marion11111 wrote:
> >  Knowing how much they are changing in this film make it 
> >  impossible to even guess.   Something about how he "manifests 
> >  himself."  I'm looking at his costume with feathers on 
> >  the sleeves and I'll guess he turns into a rook.  I'll bet he 
> >  flaps his arms and says Kaa Kaa.

Next Alla:
> I spit my juice when I read it :) You are hilarious indeed.
> BUT SHHHHHHH. Your guess maybe closer to the truth than you think ;)
> Remember that awful trailer? I finally watched it and saw that scene 
> in the mall where two guards catch Will supposedly for shoplifting. 
> Have you read the interview with the director where he says that 
> those two men turn into rooks?
> 
> Well, if they can, I think Rider may do it too ;)
> 
> Just imagine during the Wild Hunt, they run after him and WHOOOSH, 
> Walker is on the ground, and the big ROOOK is on the horse. OH DEAR.
> 
<snip>
> Well, Rook on the Horse could be pretty funny I suppose. I mean, 
> let's forget the teensy fact that there is nothing funny about canon 
> Rider - ZERO, NADA. 

Now Eustace Scrubb:
No, I think he'll leave the rooks to his minions.  I think he'll
transform into a really big snake...Snake on a Horse.

And we'll hear Will shouting from the crypt into which he falls (and
I'm not making that part up), "Snakes!  I hate snakes!"

"Nagini tells me that the Old Ones' caretaker is standing just outside
the door. Step aside Hawkin so I can give our guest a proper greeting."

Pass the psychedelic mushrooms, please...

Cheers,

Eustace_Scrubb




From dzny72 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 21:48:36 2007
From: dzny72 at yahoo.com (dzny72)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:48:36 -0000
Subject: Confused--help???
In-Reply-To: <fdbpfa+av4g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdek3k+2g8g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" 
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>SNIP (my original post)
> Geoff:
> Harry explains why Draco became the new master...
> 
> '"You still don't get it, Riddle. do you? Possessing the wand 
isn't 
> enough! Holding it, using it, doesn't make it really yours. Didn't 
you 
> listen to Ollivander? The wand chooses the wizard... the Elder 
Wand 
> recognised  a new master before Dumbledore died, some one who 
> never even laid a hand on it. The new master removed the wand 
> from Dumbledore against his will, never realising exactly what he 
> had done or that the world's most dangerous wand had given him 
> its allegiance..."
> 
> Voldemort's chest rose and fell rapidly and Harry could feel the 
> curse coming, feel it building in the wand pointed at his face.
> 
> "The true master of the Elder Wand was Draco Malfoy."'
> (DH "The Flaw in the Plan" pp.594/95 UK edition)
> 
> The reference to never laying a hand on it points back to:
> 
> 'The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and 
> shouted: "Expelliarmus".
> 
> Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile...
> 
> ...He could not understand how it had happened - 
> Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -
> 
> Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand 
> flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... 
> Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilised Harry and the second 
> he had taken to perform the spell had cost him the chance of 
> defending himself.
> 
> Standing against the ramparts,very white in the face, Dumbledore 
> still showed no sign of panic or distress. He merely looked across 
> at his disarmer and siad "Good evening, Draco."'
> (HBP "The LIghtning-Struck Tower" pp.545/46 UK edition)
> 
> That covers how Draco became the master; I can't recall any 
> reference being made to who recovered the wand but we know that 
> it was in Dumbledore's tomb until Voldemort breaks in and takes it:
> 
> 'Had the old fool imagined that marble or death would protect the 
> wand? Had he thought that the Dark Lord would be scared to violate 
> his tomb? The spider-like hand swooped and pulled the wand from 
> Dumbledore's grasp...'
> (DH "The Wandmaker" p.405 UK edition)
> 
> I'm not sure how the elder wand recognised a change of allegiance 
> to Harry. Ollivander explains that Draco's own wand would now obey 
> Harry:
> 
> '"Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably 
springy. 
> This was the wand of Draco Malfoy."
> "Was?" repeated Harry. "Isn't it still his?"
> "Perhaps not. If you took it -"
> "- I did -"
> "- then it may be yours. Of course, the manner of taking matters. 
> Much also depends on the wand itself. in general, however, where a 
> wand has been won, its allegiance will change."....
> 
> ...." I took this wand from Draco Malfoy by force,": said 
Harry."can I 
> use it safely?"
> "I tihkn so. Subtle laws govern wand ownership but the conquered 
> wand will usually bend its will to its new master."'
> (DH "The Wandmaker" from p.399 UK edition)
> 
> It seems that the change of allegiance by Draco's wand also 
affects 
> the Elder Wand. It is on this fact that Harry risks the final 
> confrontation with Voldemort:
> 
> '"...and after I have killed you, I can attend to Draco Malfoy..."
> "But you're too late," said Harry."You've missed your chance. I 
got 
> there first. I overpowered Draco weeks ago. I took this wand from 
> him."
> 
> Harry twitched the hawthorn wand and he felt the eyes of everyone 
> in the Hall upon it.
> 
> "So it all comes down to this, doesn't it?" whispered Harry. "Does 
> the wand in your hand know its last master was Disarmed? Because 
> if it does... I am the true master of the Elder Wand."....
> 
> ....Harry heard the high voice shriek as he, too, yelled his best 
hope 
> to the heavens, pointing Draco's wand:
> 
> "Avada Kedavra"
> "Expelliarmus"'
> 
> (DH "The Flaw in the Plan" pp.595 UK edition)
> 
> The rest is history.
> 
> Hope this helps.
>
Thank you SO much--this explains everything--I completely for got 
about the Expelliarmus in HBP.  No wonder I was so confused.

Thanks again!

Dzny




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 02:14:50 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:14:50 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdca24+g5b9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdf3mq+8nug@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> BUT SHHHHHHH. Your guess maybe closer to the truth than you think ;)
> 
> Remember that awful trailer? I finally watched it and saw that scene 
> in the mall where two guards catch Will supposedly for shoplifting.
> 
> Have you read the interview with the director where he says that 
> those two men turn into rooks?
> 
> Well, if they can, I think Rider may do it too ;)
> 


marion11111:
No, I hadn't read that one.  The guards in the mall turn into rooks?!?  Okey Dokey, why 
not?

 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> So, yeah, forget that teensy fact that he is not funny and then 
> polyjuice does sound pretty good. I vote for him turning into Walker 
> and seducing Merriman.
> 
> YAY me.
>

marion11111:
yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven knows, we're getting everything 
else.





From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 02:27:51 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:27:51 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdebkb+4ngk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdf4f7+mvg8@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> Here dear, more help for your screen writing efforts:
> 
> http://movies.ign.com/articles/788/788993p1.html
> 
> "Names like Christopher Eccleston (Doctor Who) and Ian McShane 
> (Deadwood) populate the cast list, but Cunningham cites the character 
> of the Walker, as played by Jonathan Jackson (Riding the Bullet), as 
> an example of how he hopes to appeal to a younger crowd.
> 
> "Even in the books, Walker was a young man who had aged and he'd gone 
> back in time so long, so it was a matter of what was our emphasis 
> going to be?" says the director. "The tragedy of a young man or the 
> history of an old man? And we chose to focus on the previous and 
> really make it about this guy who had this love for this girl and was 
> completely screwed over, and had given his soul up for it. And so 
> when he comes back, which we're shooting right now, he's back himself 
> as a young man. [We're trying] to get into his head, his experience, 
> and again, it's trying to reach out to the audience that we're going 
> after, which is today's younger audience.""
> 
> So THAT was what the story of Walker is all about?
>  NOW I know.
>
 

marion11111:
Why yes, so that whole business with Merriman and the clock was just a cover-up for his 
hopeless infatuation with Maggie Barnes.  I'm getting this all confused with Gossip Girl 
now.


> Now Eustace Scrubb:
> No, I think he'll leave the rooks to his minions.  I think he'll
> transform into a really big snake...Snake on a Horse.
> 
> And we'll hear Will shouting from the crypt into which he falls (and
> I'm not making that part up), "Snakes!  I hate snakes!"
> 
> "Nagini tells me that the Old Ones' caretaker is standing just outside
> the door. Step aside Hawkin so I can give our guest a proper greeting."
> 
> Pass the psychedelic mushrooms, please...
> 

marion11111:
And then Merriman will arrive  in a black leather jacket waving a gun and shouting  
"Enough is enough! I have had it with these m************ snakes in this m************ 
church!" 

I think we should start a movement to turn this film into a Rocky Horror Picture Show type 
of thing.  We bring plastic snakes and bags of black feathers to throw.  We shout lines out 
at the screen and maybe come up with a catchy dance number.  




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 27 02:44:57 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:44:57 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fde9lo+ghcb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdf5f9+bkfv@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> Here dear, more help for your screen writing efforts:
> 
> 
> http://movies.ign.com/articles/788/788993p1.html
> 
> 
> "Names like Christopher Eccleston (Doctor Who) and Ian McShane 
> (Deadwood) populate the cast list, but Cunningham cites the 
character 
> of the Walker, as played by Jonathan Jackson (Riding the Bullet), 
as 
> an example of how he hopes to appeal to a younger crowd.
> 
> "Even in the books, Walker was a young man who had aged and he'd 
gone 
> back in time so long, so it was a matter of what was our emphasis 
> going to be?" says the director. "The tragedy of a young man or the 
> history of an old man? And we chose to focus on the previous and 
> really make it about this guy who had this love for this girl and 
was 
> completely screwed over, and had given his soul up for it. And so 
> when he comes back, which we're shooting right now, he's back 
himself 
> as a young man. [We're trying] to get into his head, his 
experience, 
> and again, it's trying to reach out to the audience that we're 
going 
> after, which is today's younger audience.""

Magpie:
Today's younger audience. As opposed to all the senior citizens the 
book was originally written for. In my day, when I was 11, good 
stories hadn't been invented yet. Today's young people know that 
children's story really need to be about sex. The idea of a guy 
feeling let down by a father figure raelly has nothing to do with 
kids.

Btw, I remember one interview where the screenwriter or someone said 
that in order to modernize the movie for today's audience, they had 
to make Will American. 

Because as we all know, the United Kingdom ceased to exist somewhere 
around 1987. Modern audiences can't do Great Britain.

-m





From dk59us at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 16:11:15 2007
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:11:15 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdf5f9+bkfv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdgkn3+qfjq@eGroups.com>

<sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
> Btw, I remember one interview where the screenwriter or someone said 
> that in order to modernize the movie for today's audience, they had 
> to make Will American. 
> 
> Because as we all know, the United Kingdom ceased to exist somewhere 
> around 1987. Modern audiences can't do Great Britain.

Eustace_Scrubb:
Or as the authors of _1066 and All That:  A Memorable History of
England, comprising all the parts you can remember, including 103 Good
Things, 5 Bad Kings and 2 Genuine Dates_ (from which I initially got
my warped views of history and things British) write:  at the end of the
Great War, "America became Top Nation, and history came to a ."

Cheers,

Eustace_Scrubb




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 19:39:43 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:39:43 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdf3mq+8nug@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdh0tv+rucu@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> No, I hadn't read that one.  The guards in the mall turn into 
rooks?!?  Okey Dokey, why 
> not?


Alla:

Yeppy, they do according to the interview I cannot find now. And I 
guess Will demonstrates his powers in fighting them, sort of like 
Harry Potter's uncontrolable magic or something.
 
>  
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > So, yeah, forget that teensy fact that he is not funny and then 
> > polyjuice does sound pretty good. I vote for him turning into 
Walker 
> > and seducing Merriman.
> > 
> > YAY me.
> >
> 
> marion11111:
> yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven knows, 
we're getting everything 
> else.
>


Alla:

Of course we do, just imagine Lord of the Dark and Lord of Light 
having a steamy sex scene in front of the today younger audience.

MAHAHAAHHAHHAHA.  


http://www.movieweb.com/news/23/20723.php

More news of what Maggie is in the movie sort of, if you wanna know ;)




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 19:49:42 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:49:42 -0000
Subject: "More-ish" (Was: The Beauforts Was: reverse dictionary )
In-Reply-To: <fd42nf+a9as@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdh1gm+msrc@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
> Personally, having been brought up as a Northerner before being 
brainwashed when I later went to school in London, I like black 
pudding. It used to be very much a Northern 'thing' but nowadays 
often appears all over the country as part of that menu curiosity, 
the all-day breakfast.
> 
> I was however, suggesting it as a punishment, with the Eccles cake 
to take away the taste and lessen the severity...... kind and
compassionate person that I am. Also modest.
> :-))
>
Carol responds:

A punishment for favoring York over Lancaster in the Wars of the
Roses? :-p!!

At the very worst, make me eat *Yorkshire* pudding (which doesn't
sound too bad; my mother used to fry eggs and American-style pancakes
in bacon grease before she became health conscious). If you want to
punish me appropriately, surround me with yipping Yorkshire terriers.

Never mind. I'd rather eat black pudding. Heck, I'd rather eat tripe,
and that's saying a lot.

On a side note, many American restaurants also feature the all-day
breakfast, heavy on eggs, bacon, and pancakes. (Our bacon is also
rather different from yours; less gristly than the bacon I had in
London, anyway. I did enjoy the Best Bacon Baguette in the Turk's Head
Inn in Oxford, if I'm recalling the name correctly. It was within
walking distance of the Bodleian and was one of the few
air-conditioned places I could find in Oxford during the July 1995
heatwave. Imagine being in England for a month and only having to use
an umbrella once!)

Carol, retaining her Yorkist and Ricardian views in the face of any
punishment :-)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 27 20:22:04 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:22:04 -0000
Subject: "More-ish" (Was: The Beauforts Was: reverse dictionary )
In-Reply-To: <fdh1gm+msrc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdh3dc+bd7u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Geoff:
> > Personally, having been brought up as a Northerner before being 
> brainwashed when I later went to school in London, I like black 
> pudding. It used to be very much a Northern 'thing' but nowadays 
> often appears all over the country as part of that menu curiosity, 
> the all-day breakfast.
> > 
> > I was however, suggesting it as a punishment, with the Eccles cake 
> to take away the taste and lessen the severity...... kind and
> compassionate person that I am. Also modest.
> > :-))

Carol:
> A punishment for favoring York over Lancaster in the Wars of the
> Roses? :-p!!

Geoff:
Oh. most definitely.

Carol:
> At the very worst, make me eat *Yorkshire* pudding (which doesn't
> sound too bad; my mother used to fry eggs and American-style pancakes
> in bacon grease before she became health conscious). If you want to
> punish me appropriately, surround me with yipping Yorkshire terriers.
> 
> Never mind. I'd rather eat black pudding. Heck, I'd rather eat tripe,
> and that's saying a lot.

Geoff:
In passing, tripe's a Northern delicacy which it's hard to get hold of in the 
South.

Interestingly, Yorkshire pudding and black pudding are both unusual in that 
they are not puddings in the normal British sense which describes a savoury 
or dessert to follow the main meal, also sometimes known as 'afters'.

For those who are uncivilised enough <g> not to know of the delights of 
Yorkshire pudding, it is basically a round 'cake' of almost plain batter (in 
the pancake sense, not the fried fish type). In Yorkshire itself, it is 
traditionally served on its own as a starter with gravy but most Brits will 
have it with roast beef and vegetables.

Very more-ish....




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 27 21:01:40 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:01:40 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdh0tv+rucu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdh5nk+m1mv@eGroups.com>

> > marion11111:
> > yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven knows, 
> we're getting everything 
> > else.

Magpie:
What do you call Will/Bran?

Okay, maybe I'm biased because of all the fanfiction...

-m 




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 21:04:53 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:04:53 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdh5nk+m1mv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdh5tl+ma31@eGroups.com>

> > > marion11111:
> > > yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven knows, 
> > we're getting everything 
> > > else.
> 
> Magpie:
> What do you call Will/Bran?
> 
> Okay, maybe I'm biased because of all the fanfiction...
> 
>

Alla:

I call them Remus/Sirius.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 23:21:26 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:21:26 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: (was:  "More-ish" ..._
In-Reply-To: <fdh3dc+bd7u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdhdtm+g9oe@eGroups.com>

---  "Geoff Bannister" 
> Geoff:
> ...
> 
> Interestingly, Yorkshire pudding and black pudding 
> are both unusual in that they are not puddings in 
> the normal British sense ...
> 
> For those who are uncivilized enough <g> not to know
> of the delights of Yorkshire pudding, it is basically
> a round 'cake' of almost plain batter (in the pancake
> sense,...). In Yorkshire itself, it is traditionally 
> served on its own as a starter with gravy but most 
> Brits will have it with roast beef and vegetables.
> 
> Very more-ish....
>

bboyminn:

Just seeking clarification. I've never had the honor
of testing or tasting the delights of Yorkshire
Pudding, but I thought I had a sense of what it was.
Though, my impression doesn't seem to fit your
description.

I've been under the impression that Yorkshire
Pudding was bread or biscuit (in the American sense)
dough that was placed around a joint of meat while
it was roasting in the oven. As the meat roasted,
the bread rose and soaked up the juices of the meat
and made a mighty taste addition to the meal. I had
been looking forward to giving it a try. But now it
sounds, if I interpret what you said correctly, that
is is basically pancakes with gravy.

Could you explain further?

Steve/bboyminn




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 28 00:28:10 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:28:10 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdh5tl+ma31@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdhhqq+v05i@eGroups.com>

> > > > marion11111:
> > > > yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven 
knows, 
> > > we're getting everything 
> > > > else.
> > 
> > Magpie:
> > What do you call Will/Bran?
> > 
> > Okay, maybe I'm biased because of all the fanfiction...
> > 
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I call them Remus/Sirius.

Magpie:
Yeah, baby!

-m






From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 01:13:07 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:13:07 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdh5nk+m1mv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdhkf3+moid@eGroups.com>


>
> > > marion11111:
> > > yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven knows, 
> > we're getting everything 
> > > else.
> 
> Magpie:
> What do you call Will/Bran?
> 

marion11111:
I call it a very strange relationship.  Will being all serious and old and talking in his head to 
Merriman, while Bran just goes around being creepy and intense.  "Why are you always 
staring blankly into space?"  "Yeah, well, why don't you ever take off those sunglasses?"  "No 
wonder we don't get invited to parties."

See, this is why I don't read much fanfiction - it makes me giggle.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 28 01:35:40 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:35:40 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdhkf3+moid@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdhlpc+aa3e@eGroups.com>

> > > > marion11111:
> > > > yes, we need a slash storyline in Dark is Rising.  Heaven 
knows, 
> > > we're getting everything 
> > > > else.
> > 
> > Magpie:
> > What do you call Will/Bran?
> > 
> 
> marion11111:
> I call it a very strange relationship.  Will being all serious and 
old and talking in his head to 
> Merriman, while Bran just goes around being creepy and 
intense.  "Why are you always 
> staring blankly into space?"  "Yeah, well, why don't you ever take 
off those sunglasses?"  "No 
> wonder we don't get invited to parties."
> 
> See, this is why I don't read much fanfiction - it makes me giggle.

Magpie:
In much DiR fanfic it's more like they'd be having really stilted 
small talk, make bad puns and slap at each other's arms. They would 
drink much tea while they had stilted small talk about tea. Bran 
would say 'cariad' a lot and they would both make references to where 
they grew up. Then they would have sex (Bran would take off his 
glasses so Will could get lost in his tawny eyes, but he would still 
saw cariad a lot--and also Duw) and the orgasm would bring back 
Bran's memories.

Will would cry.

-m







From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Fri Sep 28 01:48:19 2007
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:48:19 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HAHA. The Dark
 is rising movie again
Message-ID: <20070928114819.CUK78173@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>

Magpie:
In much DiR fanfic it's more like they'd be having
really stilted small talk, make bad puns and slap at
each other's arms. They would drink much tea while
they had stilted small talk about tea. Bran would
say 'cariad' a lot and they would both make
references to where they grew up. Then they would
have sex (Bran would take off his glasses so Will
could get lost in his tawny eyes, but he would still
saw cariad a lot--and also Duw) and the orgasm would
bring back Bran's memories.

Will would cry.

Sharon:
LOL, I've never read DiR and therefore none of it's
fanfic, but I also find a lot of HP SLASH similar to
your discription. Severes takes Sirius out to
dinner, Sirius drinks too much and reproaches
Severes for not paying enough attention to him,
Severes says something cutting. They head of down
the street with Sirius staggering a bit and holding
Severes' arm. Sirius says "how can you speak so
loathefully to me when we've just had sex not two
hours ago." Severes walks ahead and says nothing. 
Then they go off and have sex again. Sirius cries.
Severes says nothing.

I have found some good fanfic too, but none of it is
SLASH I'm afraid. Oh, I take that back, if I can
count one about Hermione/Ginny -- being new to
fanfic I am not sure if girl on girl is still called
SLASH. LOL.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 02:01:38 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:01:38 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdhlpc+aa3e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdhna2+caav@eGroups.com>


> > marion11111:
> > 
> > See, this is why I don't read much fanfiction - it makes me giggle.
> 
> Magpie:
> In much DiR fanfic it's more like they'd be having really stilted 
> small talk, make bad puns and slap at each other's arms. They would 
> drink much tea while they had stilted small talk about tea. Bran 
> would say 'cariad' a lot and they would both make references to where 
> they grew up. Then they would have sex (Bran would take off his 
> glasses so Will could get lost in his tawny eyes, but he would still 
> saw cariad a lot--and also Duw) and the orgasm would bring back 
> Bran's memories.
> 
> Will would cry.
> 

marion11111:
See, I'm giggling again.  He says "Duw" in bed?!?  Actually, I'm fascinated that DiR fanfiction 
exists.  It's hardly pop culture literature.  Now I'm going to go and look some up.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 02:39:35 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:39:35 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <fdhna2+caav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdhph7+4m2e@eGroups.com>

> marion11111:
> See, I'm giggling again.  He says "Duw" in bed?!?  Actually, I'm 
fascinated that DiR fanfiction 
> exists.  It's hardly pop culture literature.  Now I'm going to go 
and look some up.
>


Alla:

You are FUNNY. 

I bought Persy Jackson by the way. Totally love, thank you :)




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 03:29:39 2007
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:29:39 -0000
Subject: HAHA. The Dark is rising movie again
In-Reply-To: <20070928114819.CUK78173@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <fdhsf3+ne5l@eGroups.com>

> Sharon:
> LOL, I've never read DiR and therefore none of it's
> fanfic, but I also find a lot of HP SLASH similar to
> your discription. Severes takes Sirius out to
> dinner, Sirius drinks too much and reproaches
> Severes for not paying enough attention to him,
> Severes says something cutting. They head of down
> the street with Sirius staggering a bit and holding
> Severes' arm. Sirius says "how can you speak so
> loathefully to me when we've just had sex not two
> hours ago." Severes walks ahead and says nothing. 
> Then they go off and have sex again. Sirius cries.
> Severes says nothing.
> 
> I have found some good fanfic too, but none of it is
> SLASH I'm afraid. Oh, I take that back, if I can
> count one about Hermione/Ginny -- being new to
> fanfic I am not sure if girl on girl is still called
> SLASH. LOL.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Alla:

Sob. 

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1240811/1/Hermitage

Try Fabula Rasa and if you do not like Snape/Sirius after her 
stories, then I admit defeat :)

Alla




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 06:42:26 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:42:26 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: (was:  "More-ish" ..._
In-Reply-To: <fdhdtm+g9oe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdi7oi+7pks@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Geoff Bannister" 
> > Geoff:
> > ...
> > 
> > Interestingly, Yorkshire pudding and black pudding 
> > are both unusual in that they are not puddings in 
> > the normal British sense ...
> > 
> > For those who are uncivilized enough <g> not to know
> > of the delights of Yorkshire pudding, it is basically
> > a round 'cake' of almost plain batter (in the pancake
> > sense,...). In Yorkshire itself, it is traditionally 
> > served on its own as a starter with gravy but most 
> > Brits will have it with roast beef and vegetables.
> > 
> > Very more-ish....

boyminn:
> 
> Just seeking clarification. I've never had the honor
> of testing or tasting the delights of Yorkshire
> Pudding, but I thought I had a sense of what it was.
> Though, my impression doesn't seem to fit your
> description.
> 
> I've been under the impression that Yorkshire
> Pudding was bread or biscuit (in the American sense)
> dough that was placed around a joint of meat while
> it was roasting in the oven. As the meat roasted,
> the bread rose and soaked up the juices of the meat
> and made a mighty taste addition to the meal. I had
> been looking forward to giving it a try. But now it
> sounds, if I interpret what you said correctly, that
> is is basically pancakes with gravy.
> 
> Could you explain further?
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

Geoff:
May I direct you to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_pudding

...which will give you a much more in-depth look than I can.

My only disagreement with item is that it is rarely used as a 
pudding/dessert/sweet course.




From lavaluvn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 18:58:29 2007
From: lavaluvn at yahoo.com (Andromeda)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:29 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: (was:  "More-ish" ..._
In-Reply-To: <fdi7oi+7pks@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdjisl+keq7@eGroups.com>


> boyminn:
> > 
> > Just seeking clarification. I've never had the honor
> > of testing or tasting the delights of Yorkshire
> > Pudding, but I thought I had a sense of what it was.
> > Though, my impression doesn't seem to fit your
> > description.
> > 
> > I've been under the impression that Yorkshire
> > Pudding was bread or biscuit (in the American sense)
> > dough that was placed around a joint of meat while
> > it was roasting in the oven. As the meat roasted,
> > the bread rose and soaked up the juices of the meat
> > and made a mighty taste addition to the meal. I had
> > been looking forward to giving it a try. But now it
> > sounds, if I interpret what you said correctly, that
> > is is basically pancakes with gravy.
> > 
> > Could you explain further?
> > 
> > Steve/bboyminn
> 
> Geoff:
> May I direct you to:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_pudding
> 
> ...which will give you a much more in-depth look than I can.
> 
> My only disagreement with item is that it is rarely used as a 
> pudding/dessert/sweet course.
>


Andromeda:

  OH, Yorkshire pudding, yummmmm.  Back in the Cretaceous when I was 
an exchange student at Sheffield, we used to get one every Sunday 
with roast beef.  Since I was vegetarian at the time I would beg them 
to give me two Yorkshire puddings instead.  They're like light 
popovers, mostly hollow inside, a more eggy texture than any American 
bread product I can think of.  Definitely not a dessert. I adored 
them, but haven't managed to find anything like them since.  Sigh. 

Which immediately makes me think of my other English culinary true 
love: the chocolate Hob Nob.  Do HobNobs still exist?




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 19:28:24 2007
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:28:24 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjisl+keq7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdjkko+v4gq@eGroups.com>

---  "Andromeda" <lavaluvn at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > boyminn:
> > > 
> > > Just seeking clarification. I've never had the honor
> > > of testing or tasting the delights of Yorkshire
> > > Pudding, but I thought I had a sense of what it was.
> > > Though, my impression doesn't seem to fit your
> > > description.
> > > 
> > > I've been under the impression that Yorkshire
> > > Pudding was bread or biscuit (in the American sense)
> > > dough that was placed around a joint of meat while
> > > it was roasting in the oven. As the meat roasted,
> > > the bread rose and soaked up the juices of the meat
> > > and made a mighty taste addition to the meal. I had
> > > been looking forward to giving it a try. But now it
> > > sounds, if I interpret what you said correctly, that
> > > is is basically pancakes with gravy.
> > > 
> > > Could you explain further?
> > > 
> > > Steve/bboyminn
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > May I direct you to:
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_pudding
> > 
> > ...which will give you a much more in-depth look
> >  than I can.
> > 

> 
> 
> Andromeda:
> 
> OH, Yorkshire pudding, yummmmm. Back in the Cretaceous
> when I was an exchange student at Sheffield, we used 
> to get one every Sunday with roast beef.  ... They're
> like light popovers, mostly hollow inside, a more 
> eggy texture than any American bread product I can 
> think of.  ... 
> 
> Which immediately makes me think of my other English
> culinary true love: the chocolate Hob Nob. Do HobNobs
> still exist?
>

bboyminn:

Aren't Hob Nobs an oatie biscuit (cookie in the USA)
that have chocolate drizzled across the top? I'm sure 
I've seen them in stores in the USA, and even bought
a box once.

What I would like to try are 'Jammy Dodgers', they
sound good.

Also, Jaffa Cake...is it a cake or is it a cookie;
inquiring minds want to know? I think the government
got involved and officially ruled Jaffa Cake to be
cake. I'm under the impression that they are very
popular amoung kids.

Also, 'Squash'; isn't that a soft drink made from
currants? Sounds like something I might like.

Of course, who wouldn't like to sample a tracle tart?
Still I wonder if Tracle Tarts are as common as
HP books make them seem? Could I walk into most
bakeries and find one?

Also, 'Spotted Dick' which I understand is a desert.
Though I don't think I want to try the 'dick' that
comes in a can (Heinz Canned Spotted Dick). The only
thing that bothers me, is that, unless I am mistaken,
it is made with suet (a type of hard beef fat).

Finally, the British seem to appreciate a good Ginger
Ale or Ginger Beer. Something Americans definitely 
don't do. I would especially like to try Fentiman's
Ginger Beer as well as their Shandy. Idris Fiery
Ginger Beer sound appealing too. There is a third
brand of really fiery ginger beer/ale but I can't
seem to track down the name at the moment. They
were suppose to sell it in 'Whole Foods' stores in
the USA but I've never found it there. 

Christmas Pudding might be interesting too. It's come
up in the books. I would be willing to give it a try
as long as it doesn't turn out to be an overblown
variation of Christmas 'Fruit Cake'. 

Sorry, just rambling.

Steve/bboyminn






From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 19:55:55 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Katie)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:55:55 -0000
Subject: Plus-Fours?
Message-ID: <fdjm8b+qsus@eGroups.com>

Hey all, I am just rereading GoF again, and I came across the "wizard 
in plus-fours" that obliviates the campground guy, Mr. Roberts. 

What are plus-fours? 

Thanks, Katie




From orphan_ann at hotmail.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 20:54:00 2007
From: orphan_ann at hotmail.co.uk (or.phan_ann)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:54:00 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjkko+v4gq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdjpl8+dfe6@eGroups.com>

> bboyminn:
> 
> Aren't Hob Nobs an oatie biscuit (cookie in the USA)
> that have chocolate drizzled across the top? I'm sure 
> I've seen them in stores in the USA, and even bought
> a box once.
> 
> What I would like to try are 'Jammy Dodgers', they
> sound good.
> 
> Also, Jaffa Cake...is it a cake or is it a cookie;
> inquiring minds want to know? I think the government
> got involved and officially ruled Jaffa Cake to be
> cake. I'm under the impression that they are very
> popular amoung kids.
> 
> Also, 'Squash'; isn't that a soft drink made from
> currants? Sounds like something I might like.
> 
> Of course, who wouldn't like to sample a tracle tart?
> Still I wonder if Tracle Tarts are as common as
> HP books make them seem? Could I walk into most
> bakeries and find one?
> 
> Also, 'Spotted Dick' which I understand is a desert.
> Though I don't think I want to try the 'dick' that
> comes in a can (Heinz Canned Spotted Dick). The only
> thing that bothers me, is that, unless I am mistaken,
> it is made with suet (a type of hard beef fat).
> 
> Finally, the British seem to appreciate a good Ginger
> Ale or Ginger Beer. Something Americans definitely 
> don't do. I would especially like to try Fentiman's
> Ginger Beer as well as their Shandy. Idris Fiery
> Ginger Beer sound appealing too. There is a third
> brand of really fiery ginger beer/ale but I can't
> seem to track down the name at the moment. They
> were suppose to sell it in 'Whole Foods' stores in
> the USA but I've never found it there. 
> 
> Christmas Pudding might be interesting too. It's come
> up in the books. I would be willing to give it a try
> as long as it doesn't turn out to be an overblown
> variation of Christmas 'Fruit Cake'. 
> 
> Sorry, just rambling.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

Ann:
Hob Nobs are oat biscuits, but they don't always have
chocolate on them. Jammie Dodgers I'm not too fond of. 
They're two round biscuits with a sort of sugary jamlike 
goo in between. The top biscuit has a heart-shaped hole 
in the middle. I'm not too fond of these because the 
biscuit's very dry and crumbly, and they're too big to 
fit in my mouth all in one go :)

Jaffa cakes, now, they're more like it. They are indeed
biscuits, a nice thin cakey bottom with very thick 
orange-derived something (I think gelatine's involved) 
on top (but not covering all of the top), all covered 
with chocolate. Excellent stuff! The proper way to eat 
them is to eat around the edges, then peel the chocolate 
off the orange bit, then peel the cake off and eat that
and only then go for the orange.

Squash is concentrated fruit juice, watered down quite
heavily to serve. Can be of any flavour. Ribena is a
popular brand. Really, you're not missing anything.

Treacle tart is delicious and fairly common. Highly
recommended! Ditto Spotted (not "spotty") Dick, which
is suet pudding with currants, and served with custard.
Suet pudding by itself is also very nice, and I can't
remember offhand if bread-and-butter puddings are 
mentioned in HP, but they're good, too, and are just 
what they sound like. Ginger beer I don't like, and 
curse Enid Blyton's eyeballs for popularising the stuff.

Christmas pudding is plum pudding. I think it's called
figgy pudding in the US. Before being eaten it's doused
in brandy and set alight - it burns all over with a 
lovely blue flame, and we're never allowed to serve it
before all the flames have died down, alas. A silver
sixpence (Percy breaks a tooth on one in PS, I think)
is baked into it and considered lucky for him that finds
it, presumably because he avoided choking on it.

Yorkshire pudding - when I was at University one of my
American friends encountering it for the first time 
was lost for words and called it a "bread shell" on the
assumption that it was related to bread somehow. He was
much mocked for this, and started a small trend (OK, just
me) of calling apples "redrounds".

Also: here's an old Mugglenet editorial on English food
I found, which has a couple of other food types, though
the Mars bar doesn't look quite right...

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-FischerR03.shtml

Ann
P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken? 





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 21:10:16 2007
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:10:16 -0000
Subject: Plus-Fours?
In-Reply-To: <fdjm8b+qsus@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdjqjo+nomi@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <anigrrrl2 at ...> wrote:
>
> Hey all, I am just rereading GoF again, and I came across the "wizard 
> in plus-fours" that obliviates the campground guy, Mr. Roberts. 
> 
> What are plus-fours? 


Oh, I remember I had to look this one up as well! I wanted to give you 
a link to a very good picture, but the link didn't work, so I'll try 
this instead:

https://www.spencers-trousers.com/plus_fours.php

Hope it'll work this time :-)!

zanooda




From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 21:17:13 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Lambert)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Plus-Fours?
In-Reply-To: <fdjqjo+nomi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <740585.33286.qm@web52710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks! I thought they were overalls or something! LOL. Katie

zanooda2 <zanooda2 at yahoo.com> wrote:          --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <anigrrrl2 at ...> wrote:
>
> Hey all, I am just rereading GoF again, and I came across the "wizard 
> in plus-fours" that obliviates the campground guy, Mr. Roberts. 
> 
> What are plus-fours? 

Oh, I remember I had to look this one up as well! I wanted to give you 
a link to a very good picture, but the link didn't work, so I'll try 
this instead:

https://www.spencers-trousers.com/plus_fours.php

Hope it'll work this time :-)!

zanooda



                         

       
---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.    

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 22:14:42 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:14:42 -0000
Subject: Plus-Fours?
In-Reply-To: <740585.33286.qm@web52710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fdjuci+kbf0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Lambert <anigrrrl2 at ...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I thought they were overalls or something! LOL. Katie
> 
> zanooda2 <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:          --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, 
"Katie" <anigrrrl2@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey all, I am just rereading GoF again, and I came across the "wizard 
> > in plus-fours" that obliviates the campground guy, Mr. Roberts. 
> > 
> > What are plus-fours? 
> 
> Oh, I remember I had to look this one up as well! I wanted to give you 
> a link to a very good picture, but the link didn't work, so I'll try 
> this instead:
> 
> https://www.spencers-trousers.com/plus_fours.php
> 
> Hope it'll work this time :-)!
> 
> zanooda

Geoff:
They are extremely old-fashioned nowadays; you might only find someone quite elderly 
and quite "proper" wearing them. They are very much associated with golf and I think the 
idea is that the wearer tucks them into his socks just below the knee so that the trouser 
bottoms don't catch in anything - bushes or similar.




From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Fri Sep 28 23:04:11 2007
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:04:11 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yorkshire Pudding:
 and other Brit Food
Message-ID: <20070929090411.CUL49846@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>

>   Ann
>   P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken?

Sharon:
I don't know about Americcans in general but my Hubby comes from the South 
(New Orleans) and they never did it at his house.  Now we live in Australia and we 
certainly break the wishbone here, for luck.

Yum, all those lovely sounding British desserts! Still, you haven't tried anything 
until you've had a Tim Tam. They are chocolate covered biscuits with layers of 
chocolate in them and are totally scrumptious - -almost an Australian icon. I have 
friend in the US who get them sent over regularly. The best way to eat them is with 
a cup of coffe and you bit a bit off each end and suck the coffee through the 
biscuit. Sounds weird, but honestly it's heaven.



From anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 23:20:28 2007
From: anigrrrl2 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Lambert)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <20070929090411.CUL49846@mail-msgstore01.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <398620.37339.qm@web52703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

My family always did - we are from Maryland in the Mid-Atlantic and we always broke the wishbone. Of course, my family is all of British heritage...so maybe that had something to do with the tradition? Katie

Sharon Hayes <s.hayes at qut.edu.au> wrote:          > Ann
> P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken?

Sharon:
I don't know about Americcans in general but my Hubby comes from the South 
(New Orleans) and they never did it at his house. Now we live in Australia and we 
certainly break the wishbone here, for luck.

Yum, all those lovely sounding British desserts! Still, you haven't tried anything 
until you've had a Tim Tam. They are chocolate covered biscuits with layers of 
chocolate in them and are totally scrumptious - -almost an Australian icon. I have 
friend in the US who get them sent over regularly. The best way to eat them is with 
a cup of coffe and you bit a bit off each end and suck the coffee through the 
biscuit. Sounds weird, but honestly it's heaven.


                         

       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Sep 29 02:08:45 2007
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:08:45 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <398620.37339.qm@web52703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fdkc3d+eekl@eGroups.com>

 Kathryn Lambert <anigrrrl2 at ...> wrote:
>
> My family always did - we are from Maryland in the Mid-Atlantic and 
we always broke the wishbone. Of course, my family is all of British 
heritage...so maybe that had something to do with the tradition? Katie
> 
> Sharon Hayes <s.hayes at ...> wrote:          > Ann
> > P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken?

Potioncat:
We did too. Particularly of the Christmas or Thanksgiving turkey, but 
any Sunday chicken would do. I think chicken is cut up differently now, 
and I'm not sure my children have ever experienced the tradition.

>From South Carolina, where everyone had British roots.
Kathy
 





From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 02:41:27 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:41:27 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjpl8+dfe6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdke0n+t2hc@eGroups.com>

> Ann:
> Squash is concentrated fruit juice, watered down quite
> heavily to serve. Can be of any flavour. Ribena is a
> popular brand. Really, you're not missing anything.
> 
> P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken?
>

marion11111:
In the Midwest we pull wishbones.  Or I should say, we did.  Now that you mention it, I 
haven't seen a wishbone for a long time.

About Ribena. Ahem. . .  My first sip made me choke and gag.  It never occurred to me 
that Black Currant flavor is basically raisin.  In America, so many things are flavored with 
Wild Cherry - cough drops, Coke, candy.  When I was in London many many years ago, 
everything was Black Currant.  That took some getting used to.  

And what is that yeast spread that people put on toast?  It was black and shiny and i can't 
recall the name.

I loved custard cream biscuits - much better than ours.  And vinegar flavored crisps.  We 
didn't have flavored potato chips at that time.  And Cadbury Roses - best filled chocolates 
ever.  And lemonade - it's like a soda pop, but thinner and sweeter and not fizzy.  Not like 
lemonade from lemons.  And the treat I miss most - a chocolate flake stuck in my ice 
cream cone!





From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 03:54:05 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 03:54:05 -0000
Subject: Plus-Fours?
In-Reply-To: <fdjuci+kbf0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdki8t+hg2j@eGroups.com>

> Katie wrote:
> > > What are plus-fours? 

> Geoff:
> They are extremely old-fashioned nowadays; you might only find 
> someone quite elderly and quite "proper" wearing them. They are 
> very much associated with golf 

Goddlefrood:

For those still wondering and unable to get to the link provided 
earlier, plus fours are trusers cut off 4 inches below the knee.

The name is due to that fact, that is that they are knees plus 4.

There used to be plus 6s and even plus 2s I believe. As Geoff said 
they are often associated with golfers, but are also popular with 
the County set, especially when a shooting party is in the offing.






From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 29 04:20:50 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:20:50 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjkko+v4gq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdkjr2+ql0a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, just rambling.

No, returning to the roots of OT. IIRC, this list was invented because
main list got tired of people asking for explanations of British food
and needed someplace to exile us to.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 29 04:32:38 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:32:38 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjpl8+dfe6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdkkh6+hvhm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "or.phan_ann" <orphan_ann at ...>
wrote:
>
> Treacle tart is delicious and fairly common. 

Long ago, recipes for treacle tart were posted here, which led to more
questions, such as "What is golden syrup"? Some people eventually
concluded that it resembles shoo-fly pie, which I've never had either.

> P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken?
>
Of course! Why else would they be called wishbones?




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 07:18:12 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:18:12 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjpl8+dfe6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdku7k+9c6m@eGroups.com>

Steve said:

> > Finally, the British seem to appreciate a good Ginger
> > Ale or Ginger Beer. Something Americans definitely 
> > don't do. I would especially like to try Fentiman's
> > Ginger Beer as well as their Shandy. Idris Fiery
> > Ginger Beer sound appealing too. There is a third
> > brand of really fiery ginger beer/ale but I can't
> > seem to track down the name at the moment. They
> > were suppose to sell it in 'Whole Foods' stores in
> > the USA but I've never found it there. 


Tonks:
Oh, now I remember that about England. I couldn't drink coke for a 
while a number of years ago when I was in Europe and I drank that 
alful orange pop everywhere until I got to England. They had this 
wonder ginger beer. I hate ginger ale in the U.S., but this was 
really great. I rememeber trying to find some in the U.S. later and 
couldn't. Maybe it can be had it Canada, I don't know. But I haven't 
thought of it in years till you just reminded me. It was very 
good!!! Cheers.

I agree with someone else who said the Yorkshire Pudding is some 
sort of bread. I expected a pudding. If I remember correctly, it 
isn't even sweet. Why is it called 'pudding', when it isn't sweet?

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 07:28:28 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:28:28 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdkkh6+hvhm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdkuqs+sr0p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" 
<catlady at ...> wrote:

> Long ago, recipes for treacle tart were posted here, which led to more
> questions, such as "What is golden syrup"? Some people eventually
> concluded that it resembles shoo-fly pie, which I've never had either.

Tonks:
Well Shoo-fly pie is another one of those things that isn't quite what 
the name implies. I made one once from a book and it is weird. It is 
not really a pie. If I remember correctly, it has a pie crust with a 
cake like inside, instead of a 'pie' like inside. Just rather odd.

Now something I did discover recently is 'Chess Pie'. Someone from the 
South came up and brought one to our church picnic. Very nice, sort of 
a cross between a pecan pie without the nuts and a not quite done cake. 
I can't really describe it, but it was good.

Tonks_op




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep 29 13:21:48 2007
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:21:48 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdku7k+9c6m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdljhc+rb4v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
Tonks:
> I agree with someone else who said the Yorkshire Pudding is some 
> sort of bread. I expected a pudding. If I remember correctly, it 
> isn't even sweet. Why is it called 'pudding', when it isn't sweet?

Geoff:
Well, it's certainly nothing like bread....

But, when eaten in conjunction with beef and vegetables etc. it's very nice. 

Why pudding? Dunno. It's a bit like some types of pastry you use to top a 
dessert pudding.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 29 19:23:18 2007
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:23:18 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdljhc+rb4v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdm8n6+2luo@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
> > I agree with someone else who said the Yorkshire Pudding is some 
> > sort of bread. I expected a pudding. If I remember correctly, it 
> > isn't even sweet. Why is it called 'pudding', when it isn't sweet?
> 
> Geoff:
> Well, it's certainly nothing like bread....
> 
> But, when eaten in conjunction with beef and vegetables etc. it's 
very nice. 
> 
> Why pudding? Dunno. It's a bit like some types of pastry you use to 
top a 
> dessert pudding.

Magpie:
I'm trying to think of how I'd describe it--my mother always made it 
when I was growing up. It never seemed odd to me that it was called 
pudding, I guess because I was used to the name, but no, it's not like 
bread. It's kind of eggy in my mind.

-m





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 30 00:55:30 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:55:30 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdjpl8+dfe6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c802fc$99a9b7f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Ann]:
| P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken? 

[Lee]:
Absolutely!  And it gets really fun when you break it with someone and the
top goes flying off and you're both left with two shortish pieces.  So,
you've got to measure to see who really has the longer one.  I had one
instance where the top part flew away and my friend and I had
identical-length pieces...so, does that mean we both got a wish or neither
got one?

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 02:03:27 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:03:27 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdkc3d+eekl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdn05f+9bgu@eGroups.com>

Ann
> > > P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken?
> 
> Potioncat:
> We did too. Particularly of the Christmas or Thanksgiving turkey,
but any Sunday chicken would do. I think chicken is cut up differently
now,  and I'm not sure my children have ever experienced the tradition.
> 
> From South Carolina, where everyone had British roots.
> Kathy
>

Carol adds:

I think that's one British tradition that has become an American
tradition, too. At any rate, my family broke the wishbone when I was a
kid (chicken or turkey). I remember trying it once as an adult and the
bone broke into three pieces, meaning, I suppose, that neither of us
got our wish. My family has British (mostly English, some Irish) roots
but far back. I have a Mayflower ancestor and another who was hanged
at the Salem witch trials on my father's side. I'm not sure when my
mother's ancestors came over from Britain, but certainly no later than
the nineteenth century. American through and through, as I realized
when I went to England and found it to be a "foreign country" (though,
of course, I was the foreigner). :-)

Carol, who usually buys chicken at KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) these
days and consequently seldom encounters a wishbone






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 02:14:26 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:14:26 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdm8n6+2luo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdn0q2+dgpt@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> I'm trying to think of how I'd describe it--my mother always made it 
> when I was growing up. It never seemed odd to me that it was called 
> pudding, I guess because I was used to the name, but no, it's not like 
> bread. It's kind of eggy in my mind.

Carol:

Speaking of pudding that isn't what we Americans call pudding, my
grandmother, whose maiden name was O'Neil (but she was born in the
US--don't know when her ancestors came over from Ireland), used to
bake persimmon pudding, which was rather like a puffy gingerbread,
about the consistency of a chewy brownie. Anyone ever hear of such a
thing, or could it have been her invention, like the guava/banana
milkshakes she used to make in her blender in the days when no one but
her owned a blender (to my knowledge) and no one had ever heard of
health food?

Carol, for whom those days now seem like once upon a time




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 03:09:17 2007
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:09:17 -0000
Subject: Biggest Loser (was  Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food)
In-Reply-To: <fdn0q2+dgpt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdn40t+3cav@eGroups.com>

Gosh... all of this talk of food. I have been on the Biggest Losers 
diet since the night the show started again this fall. 9-11. Seemed 
like the right date to start a diet and exercise program. I love that 
show. It is such an inspiration. I have lost 6 lbs. so far. I don't 
weight again till Tue. Haven't been able to do the exercises because I 
had a headache for the first 2 weeks. But anyway.. anyone else doing 
it? Or watching the show?

Tonks_op
Who is hoping to 'really' look like my namesake.... ah... I can take 
about 35 years off too, can't I?




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 30 04:01:51 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 04:01:51 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdljhc+rb4v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdn73f+cgh4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> Well, it's certainly nothing like bread....

What counts as being 'like bread'? To me, cake is something like bread
(with banana nut bread being more like cake than like bread and
cinnamon raisin bread being on the border) and muffins are something
like bread and biscuits (in the American sense -- what do Brits call
them?) and rolls are something like bread. 

The pastry part of pastry is something like bread, altho' the whipped
cream and jam and chocolate syrup are not like bread. Actually, I
think meringues (the ones I've had, which may not have been very good
specimens of the breed) are a little like bread even tho' they're made
entirely of whipped egg white and sugar and lots of heat, enough to
make them solid and crisp all the way through, not of bread stuff. 

And cookies (what Brits call biscuits) range from something like bread
to pieces of fudge with no batter-stuff involved. 

And waffles and pancakes are a little like bread, and French toast,
which is bread dipped in stirred up broken eggs and then fried, is
definitely eggy but nonetheless a little bit like bread... 

However, I can't think of the stuffing of the Thanksgiving turkey as
being like bread, even though torn-up scraps of bread are a
significant ingredient.

I think the bread dough wrapped beef roast of which Steve bboyminn was
thinking may have been a beef Wellington. Altho' I think the one I had
once was wrapped in mashed potatoes instead.

And the Yorkshire pudding I had once was a lot like other rich hot-air
balloons of bread, such as paratha, and I can't remember the name of
the Mexican one (which is a dessert sweet). Like Steve, I was
surprised that it was beside the roast rather than around it. 

In both cases, the restaurant may have served food items that were not
the item whose name they masqueraded under.

And the name 'Yorkshire pudding', is it like 'Welsh rabbit' -- did
Yorkshiremen have the reputation of being poor or stingy, so that the
only thing they could afford for 'pudding' ('afters') was more of the
side dish of the main meal?





From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 04:05:42 2007
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:05:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I cannot believe this...
In-Reply-To: <fdcmpq+4k8j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <526559.34407.qm@web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That makes me want to scream! Those movies are NOTHING like the books, unlike the other books/adaptions you mentioned! If you hadn't read most of the HP books you would have know idea what was going on in the movies. this is ridiculous.
   
  Alex Hogan
  

doddiemoemoe <doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com> wrote:
          Finally my youngest an read GOF and OOP actually she could read it 
for quite some time but was consumed with other works...

and the educators explatation as to why they cannot read it for or 
obtain any credit for it was, "because of the moveis"...NOW, We all 
know that most of both said books are not in any movie...so why 
remove them from the list?!?!? MY kid can still read the entire 
bond series, Narnia series, Pullman series, Sherlock Holmses series 
etc.....

Now normally I wouldn't care...but definitely why keep all the books 
aside from those two? Is it becase they think the kids would cheat 
on their tests? Come on...we know movies four and five contain the 
least of the content of the previous books..(are you kidding 
me...Neville and Dobby are suddenly interchangeable?)

I'm sorry but given the text/vs. the movies...why take those two 
books off the list and let all other's remain???

I dunno, I think it's more about educators reading the same tired 
thing ...I could understand educator's limiting one HP book per year 
per student (as long as writings include three to five aspects not 
in the movies...none to hard for GOF and OOP....(the only two books 
they eliminated...OMG--could it be that the teachers are watching 
the movies and NOT reading the books--probably)..because we know 
it's not because of a movie...especially when they recommended "A 
Tree Grows in Brooklyn" and a movie has been made and King's Dream 
Catcher, movie again, and Jaws, Cujo,Carrie, movies again, and 
theres deeper, "Who's afraid of Virginia Woolfe", Charly, Christmas 
Carole/Scrooged, Hunchback of Notre Dame etc..etc. etc.....at the 
least have the kids submit a ballot....and have a drawing for the 
entire school to pick one HP book...I'm just upset that my kids 
teacher was up there preaching to us about humnanities and how we 
should let our honors lit kids read what they want but all of a 
sudden remove a set of books...just because of a "movie" which we 
all know that movie 3, 4 and 5 and less, and less and, less of the 
books w/in them...

Doddie



                         

       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 30 05:00:45 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:00:45 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <46F886A3.5030806@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <fdnaht+i5f8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Random832 <random832 at ...> wrote:

> No idea - but, I can think of plenty of exact pairs for voiced/ 
> voiceless "th" - "mouth" as noun vs verb is one. I was asking if
> there were any for her two different voiceless ones.
>

"Mouth" as verb is pronounced differently than "mouth" as noun?

My friend Lee told me that "the minimum meaningful difference test"
for voiced/unvoiced "th" is met by "either/ether".

My two different unvoiced "th" pronunciations don't change the
meanings of any words because they are, I believe, a matter of dialect
pronunciation. I'd understand what Tweetybird meant if he said: "I
fink I saw a puddytat on Fursday" instead of "I sink I saw a puddytat
on Fursday". Characters in old gangster films said: "De boss" and "dem
bums" and someone faking a French accent says "Ze bozz" and "zem
boomz" and both are understood.

It's just that in MY dialect, saying "eevver/eeffer" is natural and
saying "eezzer/eesser" is weird, while saying "I sink" is natural and
"I fink" is weird. 

I suppose I also perceive two pronunciations of voiced "th", as "De
brovver and de movver". When people say 'mudder' or 'muzzer' (or, for
that matter, 'in times when a man can't speak aloud, a man's best
friend is his mutter'), I recognise what they mean, but it's not how
I'd pronounce it myself. Dem and dose, zem and zose, but not vem and
vose, anyone?







From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 06:48:27 2007
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 06:48:27 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdn73f+cgh4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdngrr+pqs8@eGroups.com>

> Geoff wrote:

> > Well, it's certainly nothing like bread....

Goddlefrood:

Here's one to really confuse you, all that is except possibly 
Geoff. If one were to follow a Bakewell Pudding recipe, but not 
use sugar, one would have something akin to a Yorkshire Pudding.

It's nothing like bread at all, probably because no yeast is used. 
Of course, that wouldn't explain unlevened bread, but there we are.

> Catlady
> Biscuits (in the American sense -- what do Brits call them?) 

Goddlefrood:

Crackers or cabin bread depending where you're from.

By the way, generally what you describe are examples of the baker's 
trade. They are akin to bread but not really like it, if you ask me.

> Catlady:

> And the Yorkshire pudding I had once was a lot like other rich 
> hot-air balloons of bread, such as paratha, and I can't remember 
> the name of the Mexican one (which is a dessert sweet). 

Goddlefrood:

The main difference would be in how they are cooked. Yokshire 
puddings are baked in an oven whereas many Indian breads are 
baked in a tandoor and have a different, smoky taste. Some 
Indian breads are also fried.

Enchilladas?

> Catlady:

> Like Steve, I was surprised that it was beside the roast rather 
> than around it. 

Goddlefrood:

Yorkshire puddings can be either on the side or the container for 
the food itself, depends on the size really. Many pubs around where 
I originate from serve meals inside a Yorkshire pudding shaped like 
a soup bowl. Personally I prefer small ones on the side the way my 
mother, who's from Leeds in Yorkshire, makes them.

> Catlady:
> And the name 'Yorkshire pudding', is it like 'Welsh rabbit' -- 
> did Yorkshiremen have the reputation of being poor or stingy, 
> so that the only thing they could afford for 'pudding' ('afters') 
> was more of the side dish of the main meal?

Goddlefrood:

It's rarebit, not rabbit, a common misconception. That's cheese on 

toast to anyone interested.

The Yorkshire pudding was used originally as bread was used, that 
is as a plate. It has nothing to do with the generosity of those 
from Yorkshire. Should anyone ever need to extract a 50 pence piece 
from a Yorkshireman make sure you have a spanner.

There are also many other types of savoury pudding, a pudding in 
places is no more than a wholly enclosed and steamed pastry dish. 
There are also black puddings, that have come up before, it's 
relative the white pudding and several others. The use of the 
word pudding in the context has nothing to do with where in the 
meal it is eaten.

Goddlefrood, who loves Yorkshiremen really, after all most of my 
relatives are from there although my parents migrated across the 
Pennines.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 30 07:04:50 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:04:50 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdn05f+9bgu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002501c80330$31bea3b0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Carol, who usually buys chicken at KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) these
| days and consequently seldom encounters a wishbone

[Lee]:
<LOL>
Well, I usually use boneless cutlets and such, so my wishbones are similarly
limited.

I should add here that I have very German and Austrian sroots, so I don't
know how the wishbone thing got into our family, but I learned it from my
Mom for sure. <Grin>

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 30 07:20:33 2007
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Mrs. Lee Storm)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:20:33 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdngrr+pqs8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002601c80332$63c2ad50$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

>From what I can gather with the various descriptions, Yorkshire pudding
might be something like the consistency of what we call a "pop-over", though
our pop-overs do use yeast.  But they're very light and not really bready in
consistency.  Personally, I love pop-overs fresh out of the oven with lots
of drippy butter.  Beef drippings are not good for me as meant and I have a
mutual non-admiration society. <Grin>

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Who's starting to get hungry and thinking about a croissant with nutella on
it.)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 30 15:47:30 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 Sep 2007 15:47:30 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/30/2007, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1191167250.14.11933.m54@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 30, 2007
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2007 
 Yahoo! Inc.
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From french_traceym at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 30 16:24:22 2007
From: french_traceym at hotmail.com (french_traceym)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:24:22 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <fdkuqs+sr0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdoijm+sqha@eGroups.com>

<catlady@> wrote:
> 
> > Long ago, recipes for treacle tart were posted here, which led to 
more
> > questions, such as "What is golden syrup"? Some people eventually
> > concluded that it resembles shoo-fly pie, which I've never had 
either.
> 
Treacle is another word for molasses. I love puddings. My mothers 
family are origionally from England and still use a lot of the 
recipies. You can boil puddings(traditional)or bake them like muffins.
My favourite is molasses pudding. 

Puddings are easy to make. About five minutes to mix together. If you 
bake them it takes 20-40 minutes. If you boil them 2 hours.

If anyone wants a recipe for molasses or vanilla pudding you can email 
me at french_traceym at hotmail.com . 




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 30 17:44:02 2007
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 Sep 2007 17:44:02 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/30/2007, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1191174242.17.91717.m47@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 30, 2007
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2007 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

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 http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

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From orphan_ann at hotmail.co.uk  Sun Sep 30 18:28:26 2007
From: orphan_ann at hotmail.co.uk (or.phan_ann)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:28:26 -0000
Subject: Yorkshire Pudding: and other Brit Food
In-Reply-To: <001f01c802fc$99a9b7f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fdopsa+103nh@eGroups.com>

> Mrs. Lee Storm wrote:
> [Ann]:
> | P.S.: Do Americans break the wishbone in a chicken? 
> 
> [Lee]:
> Absolutely!  And it gets really fun when you break it with 
someone   > and the top goes flying off and you're both left with two 
shortish   > pieces.  So, you've got to measure to see who really has 
the longer  > one. 

Ann:
Really? I hadn't heard that one; to the best of my knowledge, both 
parties get a wish over here. (Thanks to everyone for answering, btw!)

> Carol:
> My family has British (mostly English, some Irish) roots
> but far back. I have a Mayflower ancestor and another who was hanged
> at the Salem witch trials on my father's side. I'm not sure when my
> mother's ancestors came over from Britain, but certainly no later  
> than the nineteenth century. American through and through, as I    
> realized when I went to England and found it to be a "foreign      
> country" (though, of course, I was the foreigner). :-)

Ann:
Well, the past is a different country, you see... we do things 
differently here (unless it's wishbones.)

Ann





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 22:06:32 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:06:32 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fdnaht+i5f8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdp6l8+ed1g@eGroups.com>

Random832 <random832@> wrote:
> 
> > No idea - but, I can think of plenty of exact pairs for voiced/ 
voiceless "th" - "mouth" as noun vs verb is one. <snip>
> >
Catlady: 
> "Mouth" as verb is pronounced differently than "mouth" as noun?
> 
> My friend Lee told me that "the minimum meaningful difference test"
for voiced/unvoiced "th" is met by "either/ether".
> 
> My two different unvoiced "th" pronunciations don't change the
meanings of any words because they are, I believe, a matter of dialect
pronunciation. <snip> Characters in old gangster films said: "De boss"
and "dem bums" and someone faking a French accent says "Ze bozz" and
"zem boomz" and both are understood.
> 
> It's just that in MY dialect, saying "eevver/eeffer" is natural and
> saying "eezzer/eesser" is weird, while saying "I sink" is natural and
> "I fink" is weird. 
> 
> I suppose I also perceive two pronunciations of voiced "th", as "De
> brovver and de movver". When people say 'mudder' or 'muzzer' (or, for
> that matter, 'in times when a man can't speak aloud, a man's best
> friend is his mutter'), I recognise what they mean, but it's not how
> I'd pronounce it myself. Dem and dose, zem and zose, but not vem and
> vose, anyone?
>

Carol responds:

I don't understand at all. Are you saying that you pronounce voiced
"th" ("either") as "v" or "f" and unvoiced "th" ("ether") as "s"?

And, yes, to your first question: "Mouth" as a noun has an unvoiced
"th" and "mouth/mouthed" as a verb has a voiced "th." Perfect
illustration of the difference. "Either/ether" is good, too.

I *think* you're saying that you speak with a bit of a lisp, or maybe
a reverse lisp, like a child who says "thip" for "sip," only you say
"sink" for "think"?

Neither form of "th" is normally pronounced vv/ff or zz/ss, AFAIK, so
your examples are confusing for me. ("D" for voiced "th" is, I
thought, strictly Brooklyn. That one I do at least recognize.)

Silly question: If you pronounce the voiced "th" of "the" without the
schwa (unaccented vowel) and prolong the sound, does the tip of your
tongue stick out a little and vibrate? That's a voiced "th."

Carol, thoroughly confused by this post




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 22:50:12 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:50:12 -0000
Subject: Tortillas and enchiladas and other nonBrit Food (Was: Yorkshire pudding)
In-Reply-To: <fdngrr+pqs8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdp974+4dne@eGroups.com>

Goddlefrood:
> 
> Crackers or cabin bread depending where you're from.

Carol:

"Crackers" for "biscuit" as "biscuit" is used by Americans? Really?

Crackers for Americans are flat and crispy; biscuits are fluffy and
use baking powder rather than yeast to make them rise. They're
generally served with butter or margarine, sometimes with honey or
jam. Crackers are generally salty and served as snacks, not as part of
a meal. Graham crackers are sweet and sometimes served with peanut butter.

Goddlefrood:
> 
> The main difference would be in how they are cooked. Yokshire 
puddings are baked in an oven whereas many Indian breads are  baked in
a tandoor and have a different, smoky taste. Some Indian breads are
also fried.
> 
> Enchilladas?

Carol:
Possibly you're thinking of tortillas, a round, flat unleavened bread
that can be made from either wheat flour (usually bleached, at least
the ones sold in American grocery stores) or corn meal. The corn
tortillas are used to make enchiladas, which are corn tortillas dipped
in hot oil to soften them and covered with enchilada sauce (made from
red or green chiles and ranging from mild to spicy-hot) and grated
cheese (I use Cheddar or Colby, and, yes, I know those are English
cheeses) with onions or green onions (scallions) as garnish.

What we call Indian fry bread is made by local Native American tribes
and is puffier and greasier than tortillas, which are completely flat
and about as thick as the cardboard backing of a stenographer's
notebook, but flexible. (Well, corn tortillas can be baked to a crispy
 curved shell for tacos, but I don't want to confuse anybody.)

Here's a lovely pic of white and whole wheat flour tortillas:

http://www.sacatomato.com/tortilla%20stack.jpg

and a yummy-looking enchilada combination plate, which means that the
enchilada is served with so-called Spanish rice and refried beans:

http://hedonia.seantimberlake.com/hedonia/images/2007/06/06/cantinalaredo1.jpg

The enchilada is the cheese-covered thing in the middle and the green
stuff is guacomale, made from avocados. There's also a rolled-up flour
tortilla on the side.

Carol, now hungry for Mexican food as Yorkshire pudding is probably
not available in Tucson




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 23:06:22 2007
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:06:22 -0000
Subject: American biscuits (Was:Tortillas and enchiladas)
In-Reply-To: <fdp974+4dne@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdpa5e+5uj7@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> 
> "Crackers" for "biscuit" as "biscuit" is used by Americans? Really?
> 
> Crackers for Americans are flat and crispy; biscuits are fluffy and
use baking powder rather than yeast to make them rise. They're
generally served with butter or margarine, sometimes with honey or
jam. Crackers are generally salty and served as snacks, not as part of
a meal. Graham crackers are sweet and sometimes served with peanut butter.
> 
Carol again:
Oops! I knew I forgot something. Here's a pic of  American-style
biscuits, some of them whole and some sliced in half with butter or jam:

http://www.somekindofwonderfulrestaurants.com/Biscuit%20Butter%20Jam%2001%20(Custom)%20(2).jpg

In contrast, these are various crackers:

http://www.kfspromos.com/rewards/images/cracker_up.jpg

I imagine that we Americans use that word the same way Brits do, but I
could easily be mistaken. No doubt I've forgotten something else (I
didn't look up graham crackers, for example), but I'm not sure whether
I need to. Oh, yeah. "Cabin bread," mentioned by Goddlefrood. I came
up with this photo:

http://www.pacificdaughters.org.nz/images_lh/cabinbread.jpg

Looks like some sort of cracker to me and not at all what Americans
mean by a biscuit. (You really need to try one, Goddlefrood, but
somehow I don't think I could send one all fresh and hot from the oven
all the way to Fiji.)

Carol, who usually cheats and makes her biscuits from a mix






From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 23:18:03 2007
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:18:03 -0000
Subject: Tortillas and enchiladas and other nonBrit Food (Was: Yorkshire pudding)
In-Reply-To: <fdp974+4dne@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdparb+lvke@eGroups.com>

> Goddlefrood:
> > 
> > Enchilladas?
> 
> Carol:
> Possibly you're thinking of tortillas, a round, flat unleavened bread
> that can be made from either wheat flour (usually bleached, at least
> the ones sold in American grocery stores) or corn meal. The corn
> tortillas are used to make enchiladas, which are corn tortillas dipped
> in hot oil to soften them and covered with enchilada sauce (made from
> red or green chiles and ranging from mild to spicy-hot) and grated
> cheese (I use Cheddar or Colby, and, yes, I know those are English
> cheeses) with onions or green onions (scallions) as garnish.
> 


marion11111:
In Minnesota, we eat lefse.  This is a tortilla made from potatoes and milk and I don't know 
what else.  I certaily don't make them.  Even with butter, sugar and cinnamon, they are not 
my favorite ethnic treat.  Popular with some people, though.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 30 23:23:05 2007
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:23:05 -0000
Subject: pronunciation
In-Reply-To: <fdp6l8+ed1g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdpb4p+of84@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> I don't understand at all. Are you saying that you pronounce voiced
> "th" ("either") as "v" or "f" and unvoiced "th" ("ether") as "s"?

I currently pronounce 'th' as 'th'. I learned how to pronounce it when
I was seven or eight years old. Before that, I was subjected to
endless sneering from classmates and endless nagging from my mother
about my mispronunciation. (Thus I feel vindicated whenever I find
that some language does say Feodor for Theodore or Moder for Mother.)

In those days, I used very similar sounds in its place. A great deal
of "vv" for voiced th (either, brother, mother, bother = eevver,
bruvver, muvver, bovver). A great deal of 'ff' for unvoiced th (ether,
Thursday, thirsty, thin = eeffer, Fursday, firsty, fin). I learned how
to turn the F sound into TH sound by carefully touching my tongue to
the bottom of my two front teeth, so I can't imagine how anyone could
say TH before their two front teeth came in.

> I *think* you're saying that you [spoke] with a bit of a lisp, or 
> maybe
> a reverse lisp, like a child who says "thip" for "sip," only you say
> "sink" for "think"?

Reverse lisp, yes.  I don't understand why lisping is so common a
speech defect that it has a name, when th is so difficult to say that
I can't understand why a child able to pronounce th would have trouble
with easier sounds, but reverse lisping is not common enough to have a
name.

"I sink" for "I think", yes. I think both "thin" and "think" are
unvoiced TH, right? And I put my same tongue on the same cutting edge
of my same teeth (teef) when saying them. But they sound different to
me! Different such that "think thin" doesn't sound alliterative to me!
Because the 'th' in 'thin' sounds more like an 'f' than like anything
(any sing) else and the 'th' in 'think' sounds more like an 's' than
like anything else, and I Do Not Appreciate my DH (not meaning a book)
replying "They both sound more like TH to me".

> Neither form of "th" is normally pronounced vv/ff or zz/ss, AFAIK, 
> so your examples are confusing for me. ("D" for voiced "th" is, I
> thought, strictly Brooklyn. That one I do at least recognize.)

Yeah, intense New York accents are consistent about it, saying Dem
Brudders rather than Dem Bruvvers. But little child me would have said
Dem Bruvvers, because the two unvoiced THs sound that different to me.
But I would have to think up more examples to know if that is just
because one is the beginning and the other is the middle of a word.

VV for voiced TH is supposed to be a normal part of working-class
London dialect, which Toad told me not to call Cockney because that is
at closest only one flavor of many available. (Toad is a middle class
Londoner from working class parents, and Americans often think his
accent is Australian.) Gang kids supposedly called beating someone up
'bovvering' them. Or knocking out their teef. Maybe Geoff can tell us
how the gang kids pronounced 'them' and 'their'. I can't imagine
anyone pronouncing them Vem and Veir.

(By de way, 'thin' alliterates wivv 'thick'.)





From ekrdg at verizon.net  Sun Sep 30 23:50:16 2007
From: ekrdg at verizon.net (Kimberly)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:50:16 -0400
Subject: HP Book trunk set
Message-ID: <001f01c803bc$a8531010$2d01a8c0@MainComputer>

Hey,
    Is anyone else going to buy the Harry Potter series in the trunk ?   It's all 7 books in what looks like a nice trunk.   I'd love to add it to my, uh, "collection" but am hung up on spending more $ on this series !    I have several of each book already, plus the audio books.   
    Anyone else have this dilema ?  

Kimberly

"Don't bother me, I'm reading..."
7/21/07

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