Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie

[dumbledore11214]

> Magpie:
> I definitely think that's what Susan Cooper intended, that the 
Light 
> and the Dark are in some ways the same. I'm sure that opinion is 
> voiced more than once in the series. The Light's answer is that 
they 
> get that perspective, but that people can't understand their 
> perspective because they're not human. They're fighting so that 
> human beings can live freely, not for themselves. But that's all 
> their concentrated on--if some people die along the way, or get 
> hurt, they accept that. That's why ultimately the most important 
> decisions that turn the tide are by human beings and not by Old 
> Ones, because it's humans who can make these choices more freely. 
> This is also why it's so annoying to me that the movie appears to 
> show Will acting like a teenaged boy with his powers, using them 
for 
> vengeance and stuff like that, because the point is he's not human. 
> He's not tempted to do that; it's not in his nature. 
> 
> With the Walker, iirc, there's a sort of "Council" or whatever of 
> the Light, and since the Walker betrayed them to the Dark he's 
> punished by having to carry the sign. In the end Merriman doesn't 
> give him a choice, he just points out to him that now that his 
> punishment is over he has one. He could have died as soon as he 
> handed over the Sign of Bronze. I think the point is more that the 
> Light do care for people, they just always put the Light ahead of 
> everything. Though Will and Merriman seem like they're supposed to 
> be very different in that Will is far closer to people and can 
think 
> much more like them. That's why Merriman makes such a huge mistake 
> in giving the Walker the job he does. The Walker considers it a 
> betrayal that Merriman is willing to let him die over a book. Will, 
> otoh, realizes the Light gave him hepititas and thinks that's a 
> perfectly good thing to do. Or, like, when he tries to comfort Bran 
> over the death of Cafall he can't help himself from speaking as an 
> Old One, even though he knows that's the last thing a human wants 
to 
> hear in that moment. The Light definitely have ethics in the way 
the 
> Dark does not, but it's still pretty cold. They seem to realize 
that 
> the best thing they can do for people is not get involved with them 
> as Old Ones. 
> 
> -m



Alla:

Oh yeah, of course when you phrase it like that I agree :)

By the way, do you know any good Dark is Rising discussion groups? 
Could you offlist me if you do? ;)


I thought that you were saying that Light and Dark are indeed the 
same in a sense that their ideas, their goals are the same.

While to me it was indeed obvious that they do care about people, 
etc, while at the same time they are not very how to put it? 
Forgiving?

Like what you said - they fight for human beings to live freely, they 
just do not care for those who fall along the way **because** they 
are human, like Walker.

And yeah, I do feel that parallels with Dumbledore planning are 
pretty strong too. After all, he also fought for WW to be free of 
Voldemort and if some fall along the way, oh well.

Cold ethics, I agree, just it seems to me that Dark in the Cooper's 
books has no ethics.

And again, I cannot but be amused how much memory obliviation 
resonates of similarity to me.

I am sorry for mentioning examples from one book only, but it is the 
freshest in my mind, since as I said I reread it only yesterday.

Like in church when Will makes Paul and reverend forget. Heee, he 
says that he does not want for his two worlds to meet too closely or 
something. In this, I feel it is exactly what JKR intended to use 
memory charms in HP. Just to keep two worlds separated, so no ethical 
problems arise for me at all, even though in the different books it 
could be.


Walker, well, as I said when I was reading series last time, I was 
left with the impression that Merriman was giving him a choice, that 
is why it did not leave such a bitter taste in my mouth that it does 
now.

I mean, after he was carrying the signs for centuries, of course, if 
one call it a choice.

Like when he tells him to come back to Light before he calls Dark to 
them.

And even when he tells Will about the spell, I was thinking that 
Walker consent was needed to do it.

But oy, harsh, very very harsh.

I have to say though - OMG those books are so very beatiful. I still 
feel the music of the language, that certainly did not change.

And Will, as mixture of old one and eleven year old - wonderful 
character.

Oh, oh I looked up Susan Cooper Interviews and was wondering if this 
is the one you had in mind when you were talking about her intentions.


http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/intrvws/cooper.htm

SC: No, he's my character, not the Merlin of tradition. Merriman is 
an Old One in my books, a figure of the Light that opposes the Dark, 
which is my rather obvious classification of good and evil. He 
doesn't have the ambiguous dark qualities of Merlin in Arthurian 
legend. The sinister side of Merriman Lyon, and indeed all the Old 
Ones, is that absolute good, like absolute evil, is fanatical. As one 
of my characters points out, there is no room for human ambiguity. 
Absolute good is like a blinding light, which can be very cruel, and 
to that extent Merriman is not a sympathetic character. He represents 
something, but what he represents is to do with those books and not 
to do with Arthurian legend.


Alla