Moved from Main - the Dark is rising series and movie

[sistermagpie]

> Alla:
> 
> No, not tricked, and sure, I am sure he mentioned the possibility 
of 
> death, and Hawkin took it on.
> 
> But that is the thing - did he mention **all** the risks, did he 
> mentioned how **high** the possibility of death is AND did he 
mention 
> that as Merryman the Old One he does not give a d*mn whether 
Hawkin 
> dies or not, if it is needed to save the book?
> 
> I do not see that he said all that, because otherwise what you 
said 
> would not happen, no?
> 
> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the 
> sign that he was **told** before how high the chance of it?
> 
> Not that he **MAY** die, but he is almost certainly may die, you 
know?

Magpie:
I don't know how clear he could have made it. I mean, he doesn't 
die. He's not "most certainly" going to die. He'll die if Merriman 
has been tricked and the book is in danger. I think he told Hawkin 
that, because it's not like something happens in that moment for 
Hawkin to suddenly realize it. It's just that now that it's 
happening it's a reality, like he sees that what Merriman said he 
really meant. That's the part that I think wasn't really 
communicated to him--not because Merriman really kept anything from 
him, I don't think, but because he just told it to him like an Old 
One. Just the facts. He chose Hawkin, I think, because he trusted 
him, but he shouldn't have chosen him because it showed that he 
cared about the book more than anything else. That fact was kind of 
inherent in the whole set up, I think, but it wasn't real to Hawkin 
the way it was to Merriman until that moment. (And Merriman really 
didn't get it either--Will probably would have, because Will's 
closer to humans. I've actually wondered if that was partially 
because he was fated to live with them for so long on his own.)

At least that's the only thing that seems to be happening in the 
scene. If it was about Merriman underplaying the danger I think 
there would need to be more danger. I think you're absolutely right 
in that he did take the part under false pretenses, ones that 
Merriman didn't intend and maybe didn't understand himself until it 
was too late. Though I'm not sure Merriman's describing the task in 
more detail would really have helped either. 


> > Magpie:
> > But he doesn't make the Walker do that in anger to get back at 
him 
> > for hurting him personally. The Light is scary because they're 
> > judgments are carried out without emotion. "And the Doom that 
> Hawkin 
> > has brought upon himself by this act," Merriman said, without 
> > expression, "is a dread matter, which will make him many times 
wish 
> > that he might die." Merriman's described as being without 
> expression 
> > (until it softens). He's gone to the Dark and now Merriman is 
> coldly 
> > judging him as the traitor--coldly, not angrily. He's the enemy 
> now, 
> > and he's not going to treat him as anything else just because he 
> > likes him personally. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, I know, that Light judged Walker for the action he did, 
coldly 
> and emotionlessly, but really to me that does not make much 
> difference.
> 
> Merryman IS one of the Light, that is why the argument that he 
does 
> not hold Hawkin's betrayal against him is not working for me.
> 
> Because even if Merryman personally does not hold a grudge, the 
Light 
> does and IMO Merryman as part of the Light does that as well.

Magpie:
Yes, that's true--though I don't know if I'd call it a grudge 
because it seems like Cooper's point is that the Light is cold and 
that's why they can't be appealed to in matters like this. A human 
being would want Hawkin's sentence lessened. Even the human parts of 
the Old Ones do. But the parts of them that are of the Light only 
see what the Light--they need somebody to carry the Sign and now 
it's going to be Hawkin.

Alla:
>> If Hawkin just realised that he may be dying here, isn't that the
> sign that he was NOT told before how high the chance of it?
>
Magpie:
I don't think so, no. Because I don't think it's about the chance of 
death being high, but rather the chance of death being real. He's 
actually not in any danger in the scene because Will is the last Old 
One and the book is supposed to go to him. I would guess that the 
chance that the Old Ones had been tricked was actually fairly low. 
But any chance at all that he'd be killed to protect a book is I 
think too much for him once he sees it as Merriman sacrificing him. 
At least that's how I always read it, anyway.

-m