pronunciation

[Carol]

Random832 <random832@> wrote:
> 
> > No idea - but, I can think of plenty of exact pairs for voiced/ 
voiceless "th" - "mouth" as noun vs verb is one. <snip>
> >
Catlady: 
> "Mouth" as verb is pronounced differently than "mouth" as noun?
> 
> My friend Lee told me that "the minimum meaningful difference test"
for voiced/unvoiced "th" is met by "either/ether".
> 
> My two different unvoiced "th" pronunciations don't change the
meanings of any words because they are, I believe, a matter of dialect
pronunciation. <snip> Characters in old gangster films said: "De boss"
and "dem bums" and someone faking a French accent says "Ze bozz" and
"zem boomz" and both are understood.
> 
> It's just that in MY dialect, saying "eevver/eeffer" is natural and
> saying "eezzer/eesser" is weird, while saying "I sink" is natural and
> "I fink" is weird. 
> 
> I suppose I also perceive two pronunciations of voiced "th", as "De
> brovver and de movver". When people say 'mudder' or 'muzzer' (or, for
> that matter, 'in times when a man can't speak aloud, a man's best
> friend is his mutter'), I recognise what they mean, but it's not how
> I'd pronounce it myself. Dem and dose, zem and zose, but not vem and
> vose, anyone?
>

Carol responds:

I don't understand at all. Are you saying that you pronounce voiced
"th" ("either") as "v" or "f" and unvoiced "th" ("ether") as "s"?

And, yes, to your first question: "Mouth" as a noun has an unvoiced
"th" and "mouth/mouthed" as a verb has a voiced "th." Perfect
illustration of the difference. "Either/ether" is good, too.

I *think* you're saying that you speak with a bit of a lisp, or maybe
a reverse lisp, like a child who says "thip" for "sip," only you say
"sink" for "think"?

Neither form of "th" is normally pronounced vv/ff or zz/ss, AFAIK, so
your examples are confusing for me. ("D" for voiced "th" is, I
thought, strictly Brooklyn. That one I do at least recognize.)

Silly question: If you pronounce the voiced "th" of "the" without the
schwa (unaccented vowel) and prolong the sound, does the tip of your
tongue stick out a little and vibrate? That's a voiced "th."

Carol, thoroughly confused by this post