From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Feb  1 01:09:54 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:09:54 -0000
Subject: Education in the U.S.
In-Reply-To: <000801c8640c$721ae710$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fntrh2+e0o4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing 
Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> [Susan]:
> | Okay, here's trivia..who knows how to parse a sentence?
> 
> [Lee]:
> Sometimes a must if one is going to play editor. <Grin>  We used to 
have to
> do some parsing in our English classes.  It helped me to be able to
> understand the long sentences of "legalese," so to speak, being 
able to take
> the sentence apart and reconstruct it in my head into a more--uh--
coherent
> format.
> 

Potioncat:
I used to love to parse sentences when I was in high school! I'd make 
up really long ones just to parse for fun. A part of my past my kids 
perfer not to talk about.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 04:47:35 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:47:35 -0000
Subject: Education in the U.S.
In-Reply-To: <fntrh2+e0o4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fnu897+rf57@eGroups.com>

> > [Susan]:
> > | Okay, here's trivia..who knows how to parse a sentence?


Tonks:
I forgot what it is called. It this the same as diagramming a 
sentence? Where you tell what is the subject, verb, etc? We did that 
for hours in school.

What is really irking me at the moment is this. I had occasion to 
read someone???s essay and I corrected their grammar. (it was one of 
those "me and my friends think...", sort of thing, which really gets 
to me.) And they wrote back to me that they didn't care about 
grammar. That really p....'s me off! Not only do they want to be 
stupid, but that remark was rude. I would not be a teacher today for 
anything. Better to be homeless under the bride that to deal with 
the #@!(*&$) little twerps that are out there these days. What ever 
happened to respect for your elders, respect for your teachers, and 
others in authority!! 

Tonks_op
Maybe Filch was right! "God how I miss the screaming"... Ya, where 
is my wand! Better yet, is there a full moon? That will teach them!!




From dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb  1 12:07:37 2008
From: dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk (Tim Regn)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:07:37 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
Message-ID: <00ba01c864cb$09b20720$1d161560$@co.uk>

Hi All,

I just heard an interesting thing at work (I work at Microsoft's research
lab in Cambridge). Microsoft are proposing to acquire Yahoo! Perhaps I don't
need to feel guilty about spending too long on our Yahoo groups ;-)

Cheers,

Dumbledad





		
___________________________________________________________ 
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html



From mwood005 at comcast.net  Fri Feb  1 16:57:42 2008
From: mwood005 at comcast.net (ron wood)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:57:42 -0600
Subject: Education in the U.S.
Message-ID: <002801c864f3$8fca4ed0$6401a8c0@woodfamily>

melody

They wait to teach government and econimics until the 12th grade now. A semester is spent on each one. I remember doing alot of homework in those two classes.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mwood005 at comcast.net  Fri Feb  1 17:08:09 2008
From: mwood005 at comcast.net (melody_wood14)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:08:09 -0000
Subject: prayers are needed
In-Reply-To: <fkjj3s+t6ni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fnvjlp+kfvf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "melody_wood14" <mwood005 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. I know a little girl Angela she is about 9 years old. 
> Today at 10:00 a.m. she went into surgery for a liver transplant. I 
am 
> asking for everyones prayers for her and her family as well as the 
> donors family. They both have a long road ahead. Thank you, Melody
>

Melody 

I just wanted to let everyone know Angela is doing well and was able 
to go home last week. Thank you for you prayers.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 06:14:12 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:14:12 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <00ba01c864cb$09b20720$1d161560$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <fo11nk+e4k2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regn" <dumbledad at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> 
> I just heard an interesting thing at work (I work at Microsoft's 
research
> lab in Cambridge). Microsoft are proposing to acquire Yahoo! 
Perhaps I don't need to feel guilty about spending too long on our 
Yahoo groups ;-)
> 

Tonks:
I am sorry, I know that you work for them... the computer is great, 
but some of the other things, like programs.. well... I really hope 
that they don't buy Yahoo. Yahoo works fine, leave it alone. 

I am tired of all of these companies buying each other out. It won't 
be long and Gates will own it all.

Tonks_op
big brother is coming... 




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 06:19:27 2008
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 22:19:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo11nk+e4k2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <66270.17905.qm@web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Bill Gates shall own everything eventually. It is inevitable. Bow down to him as ruler now and you shall be among the favored when the New World arrives.
   
  Alex Hogan

Tonks <tonks_op at yahoo.com> wrote:
          --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regn" <dumbledad at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> 
> I just heard an interesting thing at work (I work at Microsoft's 
research
> lab in Cambridge). Microsoft are proposing to acquire Yahoo! 
Perhaps I don't need to feel guilty about spending too long on our 
Yahoo groups ;-)
> 

Tonks:
I am sorry, I know that you work for them... the computer is great, 
but some of the other things, like programs.. well... I really hope 
that they don't buy Yahoo. Yahoo works fine, leave it alone. 

I am tired of all of these companies buying each other out. It won't 
be long and Gates will own it all.

Tonks_op
big brother is coming... 



                         

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 06:35:07 2008
From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:35:07 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo11nk+e4k2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo12ur+iu84@eGroups.com>

>  "Tim Regn" <dumbledad@>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I just heard an interesting thing at work (I work at Microsoft's 
> research
> > lab in Cambridge). Microsoft are proposing to acquire Yahoo! 
> Perhaps I don't need to feel guilty about spending too long on our 
> Yahoo groups ;-)
> > 
> 
> Tonks:
> I am sorry, I know that you work for them... the computer is great, 
> but some of the other things, like programs.. well... I really hope 
> that they don't buy Yahoo. Yahoo works fine, leave it alone. 
> 
> I am tired of all of these companies buying each other out. It 
> won't be long and Gates will own it all.
> 
> Tonks_op
> big brother is coming...

Mike:
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once:
"We are Microsoft. Resisttance is Futile. You will be Assimilated."




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Feb  2 07:39:40 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:39:40 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo12ur+iu84@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo16ns+qp2f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
 
Tonks:

> > I am tired of all of these companies buying each other out. It 
> > won't be long and Gates will own it all.

Mike:
> Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once:
> "We are Microsoft. Resisttance is Futile. You will be Assimilated."

Geoff:
Ah but even the Borg can be stopped......

I shall retire to the woods with my trusty Mac Mini and join in with 
guerilla attacks on Microsoft convoys passing along the road.

We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the 
keyboards etc.

Aux armes, mes amis......





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Feb  2 16:35:32 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:35:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo11nk+e4k2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c865b9$a14814f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Tonks]:
| I am tired of all of these companies buying each other out. It won't 
| be long and Gates will own it all.

[Lee]:
That's scary, especially since they talk about how they're trying to ensure
all their stuff is accessible to the blind and yet there is so much that
isn't and no one seems to care.  Microsoft Narrator in Vista has been touted
for its accessibility and that its a good screen-reader; yeah--right--only
as far as getting around the computer and setting it up.  Don't try to read
a document or web page with it, or edit with it.  The results are *NOT*!

Windows Defender, approved by Microsoft, is totally unreadable with _Any_
screen-reader.

Ah--this is a bad topic...don't get me started!

I'm going back to bed where it's safe and listening to Stephen Fry and DH.

Bye-bye,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Feb  2 16:41:57 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:41:57 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <66270.17905.qm@web53004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000701c865ba$86e49970$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Alex H]:
| Bill Gates shall own everything eventually. It is inevitable. 
| Bow down to him as ruler now and you shall be among the 
| favored when the New World arrives.
|    
|   Alex Hogan

[Lee]
Okay, time to start the Order Of The Paper Airplane!  Who wants to join?

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Feb  2 16:50:12 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:50:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo12ur+iu84@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000801c865bb$adb773f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Mike:
| Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once:
| "We are Microsoft. Resistance is Futile. You will be Assimilated."

[Lee]:
Ah--definitely time for The Order Of The Paper Airplane!  Quick! Join our
cause!  We will do our best to resist.

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From annette9616 at bellsouth.net  Sat Feb  2 13:11:41 2008
From: annette9616 at bellsouth.net (Annette)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:11:41 -0000
Subject: Sorcerer's Stone American Edition
Message-ID: <fo1q6d+mm5d@eGroups.com>

My daughter pulled out one of our two copies of the Sorcerer's Stone
to read while she was home with a cold.

The problem with reading came when she got to page 184.  The next page
is 153 . . . repeating to 184.  Then a skip to 217.  I remember that
there was a "recall" on the books at the time, but I decided to keep
it and picked up a second copy (which she can't find for her to
read 185 - 216) and keep the misprinted copy. If I remember correctly,
there were quite a few of the error copies and a notice came out to
return the book to any store to exchange for the correct copy.

Does anyone have any information about this misprint.  Does it add
any value for a collector?  As my daughter has found, it definitely
does not add value for the reader!

Thanks!
Annette 




From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 20:04:00 2008
From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:04:00 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo16ns+qp2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo2ibg+2vog@eGroups.com>

> > Mike:
> > Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once:
> > "We are Microsoft. Resisttance is Futile. You will be
> >  Assimilated."
> 
> Geoff:
> Ah but even the Borg can be stopped......
> 
> I shall retire to the woods with my trusty Mac Mini and join in 
> with guerilla attacks on Microsoft convoys passing along the road.

Mike:
There was another bumper sticker on that same car, mind you this was 
a while ago, that said:

"OS/2 for PS/2 - half an operating system for half a computer"

Makes you wonder if this guy was a Microsoft employee, don't it?


> Geoff:
> 
> We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the 
> keyboards etc.
> 
> Aux armes, mes amis......

Mike:
We shall whimper futily and get stuck with whatever gruel they feed 
us.


[Lee]:
> Ah--definitely time for The Order Of The Paper Airplane! Quick!
> Join our cause! We will do our best to resist.

Mike:
I've got an Order for the other side;
Paper Airplanes Can't Incite Fighting In Short-sighted Techno-squibs.





From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  3 12:31:31 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (JAYNE SMITH)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:31:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Help
Message-ID: <47648.61847.qm@web86303.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Please can someone help me also with information.My 10
year old daughter wants to join a HP discussion site
for kids. Can anybody recommend a site for me?

Thank you

Jayne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb  3 16:42:43 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 3 Feb 2008 16:42:43 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/3/2008, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1202056963.10.91595.m42@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 3, 2008
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2008 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb  3 18:40:29 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 3 Feb 2008 18:40:29 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/3/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1202064029.59.79953.m44@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 3, 2008
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2008 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  3 12:43:11 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (JAYNE SMITH)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:43:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Rugby/ Hello
Message-ID: <632743.56420.qm@web86305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi
   
I am new to this site, but belong to HP for grown ups. I am really proud to be Welsh today (even though I live in England and am married to an English man) after their fantastic win in the rugby against England. It was unexpected by most people (not me) especially as 
it was at Twickenham and 20 years since Wales won there.

I am a great Rugby fan, and love Harry Potter and History.
   
Jayne



From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Sun Feb  3 21:33:40 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:33:40 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo2ibg+2vog@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo5bvk+96kc@eGroups.com>

> Mike:
>
> There was another bumper sticker on that same car, mind you this was  
a while ago, that said:
 
"OS/2 for PS/2 - half an operating system for half a computer"

Makes you wonder if this guy was a Microsoft employee, don't it?

Tiffany:

If he owns a PC with Vista on it, then I'd be ashamed of working for 
Bill Gates.  After only 2 weeks of headaches & troubles with Vista on 
my laptop, I went back to XP & haven't had any headaches or problems at 
all with it.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Feb  3 21:49:12 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:49:12 -0000
Subject: Help
In-Reply-To: <47648.61847.qm@web86303.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fo5cso+dcff@eGroups.com>


>
> Please can someone help me also with information.My 10
> year old daughter wants to join a HP discussion site
> for kids. Can anybody recommend a site for me?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Jayne


Potioncat:
Do the publishing companies have discussion groups? I know Scholastic 
has a Harry Potter site. If you find one, let me know. I'll see if my 
13 year old would like to join in.




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sun Feb  3 22:58:34 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:58:34 -0000
Subject: Help on quote
Message-ID: <fo5guq+tqai@eGroups.com>

Maybe someone HERE will know...

Is anyone familiar with this quotation..it's something like "If Satan 
were to take over heaven, he'd be forced to assume the attitributes of 
divinity." Does anyone know the actual quote? The source?

Google has failed me.

Susan




From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  3 21:53:33 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:53:33 -0000
Subject: Help
In-Reply-To: <fo5cso+dcff@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo5d4t+l5jg@eGroups.com>

> Potioncat:
> Do the publishing companies have discussion groups? I know
> Scholastic has a Harry Potter site. If you find one, let me
> know. I'll see if my 13 year old would like to join in.


Hi Potioncat

Thanks for that. I will try Scholastic and of course I will come
back to you if I find anything

Jayne



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Feb  3 23:21:09 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:21:09 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help on quote
In-Reply-To: <fo5guq+tqai@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c866bb$75ca2a40$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

The only thing that comes to mind is the quote from John Milton's "Paradise
Lost":
"... better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." 

Is that what you're looking for?

Cheers,

Lee :-)


| -----Original Message-----
| From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
| [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of susanmcgee48176
| Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 17:59
| To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
| Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help on quote
| 
| Maybe someone HERE will know...
| 
| Is anyone familiar with this quotation..it's something like "If Satan 
| were to take over heaven, he'd be forced to assume the 
| attitributes of 
| divinity." Does anyone know the actual quote? The source?
| 
| Google has failed me.
| 
| Susan
| 
| 
| 
| ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
| 
| The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them!
| http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2
| 
| Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary 
| material from posts to which you're replying!
|  
| Yahoo! Groups Links
| 
| 
| 
| 





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Feb  3 23:21:19 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:21:19 -0000
Subject: Rugby/ Hello
In-Reply-To: <632743.56420.qm@web86305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fo5i9f+t93l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, JAYNE SMITH <jaynesmith62 at ...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>    
> I am new to this site, but belong to HP for grown ups. I am really proud to be Welsh 
today (even though I live in England and am married to an English man) after their 
fantastic win in the rugby against England. It was unexpected by most people (not me) 
especially as 
> it was at Twickenham and 20 years since Wales won there.
> 
> I am a great Rugby fan, and love Harry Potter and History.
>    
> Jayne

Geoff:
Croeso y HPFGU!

Well. you're living in the right place anyway...
:-)

Whereabouts in England?







From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Feb  3 23:22:51 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:22:51 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo5bvk+96kc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo5icb+m075@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany B. Clark" <minnesotatiffany at ...> 
wrote:
>
> > Mike:
> >
> > There was another bumper sticker on that same car, mind you this was  
> a while ago, that said:
>  
> "OS/2 for PS/2 - half an operating system for half a computer"
> 
> Makes you wonder if this guy was a Microsoft employee, don't it?
> 
> Tiffany:
> 
> If he owns a PC with Vista on it, then I'd be ashamed of working for 
> Bill Gates.  After only 2 weeks of headaches & troubles with Vista on 
> my laptop, I went back to XP & haven't had any headaches or problems at 
> all with it.

Geoff:
Or do what I did after 6 years with a PC....

Go Mac.





From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  3 23:25:59 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:25:59 -0000
Subject: Rugby/ Hello
In-Reply-To: <fo5i9f+t93l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo5ii7+htsc@eGroups.com>

Jayne:
I am a great Rugby fan, and love Harry Potter and History.

> Geoff:
> Croeso y HPFGU!

> Well. you're living in the right place anyway...
> :-)

> Whereabouts in England?

Hi Geoff
I live in Bracknell, Berkshire. It is about 10 miles from Windsor
and 15 miles approx from Heathrow Airport

Jayne



From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 02:48:59 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:48:59 -0000
Subject: I HAD to share this HP-DH spoof, appologies to anyone this may offend
Message-ID: <fo5uer+h0vr@eGroups.com>

I just HAD to share this HP-DH spoof, appologies to anyone this
may offend...but thought this was clever way to look at how JKR
has become quite a controversial figure lately (you know with the
satan worshipping and homosexual wizards)


http://www.theonion.com/content/video/j_k_rowling_hints_at_harry_potter
?utm_source=EMTF_Onion

bdclark0423



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Feb  4 07:29:22 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:29:22 -0000
Subject: Rugby/ Hello
In-Reply-To: <fo5ii7+htsc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo6esi+8htp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jayne" <jaynesmith62 at ...> wrote:
>
> Jayne:
> I am a great Rugby fan, and love Harry Potter and History.
> 
> > Geoff:
> > Croeso y HPFGU!
> 
> > Well. you're living in the right place anyway...
> > :-)
> 
> > Whereabouts in England?
> 
> Hi Geoff
> I live in Bracknell, Berkshire. It is about 10 miles from Windsor
> and 15 miles approx from Heathrow Airport

Geoff:
Yes, I know Bracknell slightly. My younger son lives in Twickenham, 
also near Heathrow {for those whose UK Geography doesn't stretch 
that far:-))}

I now live in West Somerset but lived in the Wandsworth/Wimbledon 
area for 45 years. Pupils from my school used to be ballboys and 
ballgirls at Wimbledon tennis.




From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Feb  4 17:23:48 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:23:48 -0000
Subject: Help on quote
In-Reply-To: <001f01c866bb$75ca2a40$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fo7hn4+kqtd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing 
Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> The only thing that comes to mind is the quote from John 
Milton's "Paradise
> Lost":
> "... better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." 
> 
> Is that what you're looking for?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee :-)
> 
> 
>Thanks for trying...no  I know that one...Susan





From oakandbadger at rogers.com  Mon Feb  4 17:44:22 2008
From: oakandbadger at rogers.com (oakandbadger)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:44:22 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
Message-ID: <fo7itm+uv5f@eGroups.com>

See:  http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/Television/article/300045

In Canada, 10:00 pm Eastern

Sounds as if it will be really interesting!





From drdara at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 02:10:19 2008
From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:10:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: spew
Message-ID: <297465.70558.qm@web60722.mail.yahoo.com>

wonder if JKR knew the other meaning of SPEW:
Society for Promoting the Employment of Women (SPEW). 

found that when i was looking for something else on wikipedia


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 




From snapes_witch at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 04:27:19 2008
From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Snape)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:27:19 -0000
Subject: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo5icb+m075@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fo8oj7+nutf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" 
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> Geoff:
> Or do what I did after 6 years with a PC....
> 
> Go Mac.
>

Even though (or possibly because) I have Microsoft XP I absolutely 
adore the Apple commercials making fun of Microsoft!!  

Snape's Witch





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 20:03:28 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:03:28 -0000
Subject: Bueler...
Message-ID: <foafeg+r6vr@eGroups.com>

Just testing to see if the absence of posts on OTC and Main is
yahoomort related.

Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 20:05:56 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:05:56 -0000
Subject: Bueler...
In-Reply-To: <foafeg+r6vr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foafj4+8iro@eGroups.com>


> me earlier
> Just testing to see if the absence of posts on OTC and Main is
> yahoomort related.

Oops... I see people've been posting on Main.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Feb  5 21:53:27 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:53:27 -0000
Subject: Bueler...
In-Reply-To: <foafj4+8iro@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foalsn+a2rm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor" <kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > me earlier
> > Just testing to see if the absence of posts on OTC and Main is
> > yahoomort related.
> 
> Oops... I see people've been posting on Main.

Geoff:
Bueler....

Huh?

Erkl?re bitte!





From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 22:09:47 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:09:47 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Bueler...
In-Reply-To: <foalsn+a2rm@eGroups.com>
References: <foafj4+8iro@eGroups.com> <foalsn+a2rm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0802051409l42871d09x3f95e6858a1a6e7@mail.gmail.com>

> Geoff:
> Bueler....
>
> Huh?
>
> Erkl?re bitte!

Ali:
Bueler...Ferris?  I'm guessing Ferris.

Too many gummi bears make tummies go boom. :(



From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:56:48 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:56:48 -0000
Subject: Bueler...
In-Reply-To: <foalsn+a2rm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foat40+8nej@eGroups.com>

Kemper:
>  me earlier 
Just testing to see if the absence of posts on OTC and Main is
yahoomort related.
 
Oops... I see people've been posting on Main.

Tiffany:

There was a time in January for a week or so where OTC was more active 
than the Main List.  Yahoomort typically is known to have its 
unpredictable spells, but most major outages are announced, unless it's 
really sudden.  I recall Yahoomort going idle without warning a year or 
2 ago when the MyWife virus was clogging up emails at the groups.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Feb  6 00:09:01 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:09:01 -0000
Subject: Bueler...
In-Reply-To: <foat40+8nej@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foatqt+gnm9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany B. Clark" <minnesotatiffany at ...> wrote:
>
> Kemper:
> >  me earlier 
> Just testing to see if the absence of posts on OTC and Main is
> yahoomort related.
>  
> Oops... I see people've been posting on Main.
> 
> Tiffany:
> 
> There was a time in January for a week or so where OTC was more active 
> than the Main List.  

Geoff:
Probably cos Main was so boring.
:-(




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  6 07:22:01 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 07:22:01 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fo7itm+uv5f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fobn6p+pfb5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "oakandbadger" 
<oakandbadger at ...> wrote:
>
> See:  
http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/Television/article/300045
> 
> In Canada, 10:00 pm Eastern
> 
> Sounds as if it will be really interesting!


Tonks:
I lifted this from the story at the above link:
"The early years of Joanne Rowling are fraught with ephemeral 
incidents and enduring memories that would shape the Harry Potter 
narrative. From her mother's losing battle with multiple sclerosis 
to Rowling's eventual estrangement from her father, the series' 
aesthetic, spiritual and intellectual genesis is rooted in her own 
uneasy formation."

Well now this does explain a lot, doesn't it? I am talking about the 
part where she is estranged from her father. No wonder she has only 
one father figure in the book that she didn't kill off, but tired 
to. I bet it was her editor who suggested that maybe she shouldn't 
kill Arthur because he was the only good father figure in the 
books.  It also explains, I think, why DD is gay in her mind. Since 
DD is the closest thing to God in the series, especially early on, 
it would make sense for her to project on the DD the same sorts of 
things that a woman who did not have a good relationship with her 
own father might project onto God.

Tonks_op
who thinks that JKR is a great writer, who secretly wants to be a 
serial killer. This way she has the best of all possible worlds. 
Kills them all off and gets paid for it too. And no jail time. ;-)







From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  6 16:55:53 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:55:53 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fobn6p+pfb5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <focoqp+ipk7@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
> I lifted this from the story at the above link:
> "The early years of Joanne Rowling are fraught with ephemeral 
> incidents and enduring memories that would shape the Harry Potter 
> narrative. From her mother's losing battle with multiple sclerosis 
> to Rowling's eventual estrangement from her father, the series' 
> aesthetic, spiritual and intellectual genesis is rooted in her own 
> uneasy formation."
> 
> Well now this does explain a lot, doesn't it? I am talking about 
the 
> part where she is estranged from her father. No wonder she has 
only 
> one father figure in the book that she didn't kill off, but tired 
> to. I bet it was her editor who suggested that maybe she shouldn't 
> kill Arthur because he was the only good father figure in the 
> books.  It also explains, I think, why DD is gay in her mind. 
Since 
> DD is the closest thing to God in the series, especially early on, 
> it would make sense for her to project on the DD the same sorts of 
> things that a woman who did not have a good relationship with her 
> own father might project onto God.

Magpie:
What does anything to do with a bad relationship with a father have 
to do with DD (or anybody) being gay? A woman who had a bad 
relationship with her father would start imagining God as gay? How 
does that work?

-m (who thinks that although there are many things in canon about 
the Weasleys that would be more meaningful if she'd killed Arthur, 
can't help but worry about her trying to write Harry having to 
support someone else emotionally or deal with Ron suffering more 
than himself.)




From Schlobin at aol.com  Thu Feb  7 06:40:05 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:40:05 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fobn6p+pfb5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foe945+pd63@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "oakandbadger" 
> <oakandbadger@> wrote:
> >
> > See:  
> http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/Television/article/300045
> > 
> > In Canada, 10:00 pm Eastern
> > 
> > Sounds as if it will be really interesting!
> 
> 
> Tonks:
> I lifted this from the story at the above link:
> "The early years of Joanne Rowling are fraught with ephemeral 
> incidents and enduring memories that would shape the Harry Potter 
> narrative. From her mother's losing battle with multiple sclerosis 
> to Rowling's eventual estrangement from her father, the series' 
> aesthetic, spiritual and intellectual genesis is rooted in her own 
> uneasy formation."
> 
> Well now this does explain a lot, doesn't it? I am talking about 
the 
> part where she is estranged from her father. No wonder she has only 
> one father figure in the book that she didn't kill off, but tired 
> to. I bet it was her editor who suggested that maybe she shouldn't 
> kill Arthur because he was the only good father figure in the 
> books.  It also explains, I think, why DD is gay in her mind. Since 
> DD is the closest thing to God in the series, especially early on, 
> it would make sense for her to project on the DD the same sorts of 
> things that a woman who did not have a good relationship with her 
> own father might project onto God.
> 
>

So, you're saying that JKR thinks of DD as gay because she didn't 
have a good relationship with her father. 

She thinks therefore that a better father or a better God would be 
gay? She thinks that heterosexual men are more abusive than gay men? 
Or worse fathers?
I doubt very much that JKR has such a biased view of heterosexual men.

Or are you saying that being gay is bad...and therefore because JKR 
didn't have a good relationship with her father..she equated him with 
God the Father, Albus Dumbledore, and made DD gay because gay is bad?

Please explain.

Susan
(who adores DD, who always did even when I thought he was straight, 
and is delighted that he is NOT God, i.e. perfect but a heroic, 
strong, loving, powerful, and very flawed human being...just like 
every other great and beneficient leader)





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 07:07:06 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 07:07:06 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <foe945+pd63@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foeamq+mruj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" 
<Schlobin at ...> wrote:> >
> 
> So, you're saying that JKR thinks of DD as gay because she didn't 
> have a good relationship with her father. 
> 
> She thinks therefore that a better father or a better God would be 
> gay? She thinks that heterosexual men are more abusive than gay 
men?  Or worse fathers? I doubt very much that JKR has such a biased 
view of heterosexual men.
> 
> Or are you saying that being gay is bad...and therefore because 
JKR didn't have a good relationship with her father..she equated him 
with  God the Father, Albus Dumbledore, and made DD gay because gay 
is bad?
> 
> Please explain.

Tonks:
If God or DD is gay he is out of bounds for her psychologically. 
Since usually a young girl's father is a love object for her, if she 
had a bad relationship with her real father she has to make any 
substitute father figure out of bounds as far as 'falling in love' 
goes.  She can not therefor be 'in love' with God or with any other 
father image. It is a subconscious thing. It is not about sex, so 
her husband is a different story. Althought she may have had some 
difficulty in relationships with other men in her life before her 
current husband, because a girl's relationship with her father will 
have an effect on all other relationships with men after his.

Tonks_op




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Feb  7 12:58:47 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:58:47 -0000
Subject: tech question
Message-ID: <foeva7+h269@eGroups.com>

I've recently started using my teens' computer to check the list. Why
is it that on my clunker, once I've read a post, it changes color, but on 
their computer it doesn't? Does it have something to do with settings?

Potioncat




From elanor.isolda at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  7 14:41:02 2008
From: elanor.isolda at googlemail.com (Elanor Isolda)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:41:02 +0000
Subject: Sectus 2009 cancellation
Message-ID: <6493bc80802070641m32316379w55b3d76b6674b0c@mail.gmail.com>

I regret to announce that, for personal reasons, I am unable to continue as
Chair of Sectus 2009. I have tried very hard to find a way for the event to
go ahead without me, but unfortunately this has not proved possible. We have
therefore had to make the decision to cancel Sectus 2009.

Anyone already registered for the conference will receive a full refund
within the next few days.

Sectus 2007 was an amazing event, and it was an honour and a pleasure to
have the opportunity to organise it. I had high hopes for 2009, so this has
been a difficult decision and I am deeply saddened by this outcome.

Thank you for your past support, and I hope that you enjoy the numerous
other conferences being organised.

All the best,

Elanor Isolda
Chair, Sectus Ltd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  7 15:08:38 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:08:38 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <foeamq+mruj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fof6tm+o6oq@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
> If God or DD is gay he is out of bounds for her psychologically. 
> Since usually a young girl's father is a love object for her, if she 
> had a bad relationship with her real father she has to make any 
> substitute father figure out of bounds as far as 'falling in love' 
> goes.  She can not therefore be 'in love' with God or with any other 
> father image. It is a subconscious thing. It is not about sex, so 
> her husband is a different story. Althought she may have had some 
> difficulty in relationships with other men in her life before her 
> current husband, because a girl's relationship with her father will 
> have an effect on all other relationships with men after his.

Magpie:
That's a lot to assume about another person, isn't it? Is it really 
JKR doing the projecting? I'm not claiming to know what's going on in 
your head, but I remember after JKR's words about DD that *you* said 
that *you* equated DD being gay with his witholding love from you or 
rejecting you--iow, with being someone *you* could not be in love 
with, and this was a loss for you. But I don't think we can assume 
this is such a universal thing that JKR, too, must necessarily be 
using homosexuality as a symbol of DD being off-limits as a love 
object for her. It's just as possible that she just created a 
character and he seemed to be gay the same way Ron seemed like he'd 
make a lot of mistakes with women and Neville seemed like he'd like 
plants. Maybe while she was dreaming up the relationship with 
Grindelwald it just struck her that this was what the character was 
feeling for him, rather than a specific part of his personality that 
made him off limits to her. 

-m




From yahoo at watch.renals.co.uk  Thu Feb  7 15:10:19 2008
From: yahoo at watch.renals.co.uk (Olly)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:10:19 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] tech question
In-Reply-To: <foeva7+h269@eGroups.com>
References: <foeva7+h269@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47AB1F5B.9020808@watch.renals.co.uk>

First off you haven't provided   enough information to be able to answer
your question.  What software are you using to read the list (IE: Internet
Explorer / Firefox / Email client)?

Your computer has probably had some of the display settings changed.  If
you want to change the options on your computer we need to know what
software you are using, so that the right instructions can be given.

Olly
Nearing the end of his Computer Science degree, does that mean I need to
work soon!

potioncat wrote:
> I've recently started using my teens' computer to check the list. Why
> is it that on my clunker, once I've read a post, it changes color, but on
> their computer it doesn't? Does it have something to do with settings?
> 
> Potioncat




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 19:50:09 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:50:09 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fof6tm+o6oq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fofndh+e1e3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" 
<sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
> 
> Magpie:
> That's a lot to assume about another person, isn't it? Is it 
really JKR doing the projecting? I'm not claiming to know what's 
going on in your head, but I remember after JKR's words about DD 
that *you* said that *you* equated DD being gay with his witholding 
love from you or rejecting you--iow, with being someone *you* could 
not be in love 
> with, and this was a loss for you. But I don't think we can assume 
> this is such a universal thing that JKR, too, must necessarily be 
> using homosexuality as a symbol of DD being off-limits as a love 
> object for her. 

Tonks:
I am a Psychotherapist.  I am not making this up and it is universal 
for a woman who is not a lesbian. Since you are tying to make this 
personal, I will say for the record that I had a very good 
relationship with my own father. 

You can agree with me or not, but I am just telling you what it 
looks like from my professional POV. Of course, I can not know for 
sure since I have not discussed the matter with her personally.  I 
can not see her non-verbal messages regarding her father, hear what 
her view of God is, etc.  It is just a speculation at this point, a 
hypothesis.  

Tonks_op




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  7 21:15:09 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:15:09 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fofndh+e1e3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fofsct+hvoc@eGroups.com>

> > Magpie:
> > That's a lot to assume about another person, isn't it? Is it 
> really JKR doing the projecting? I'm not claiming to know what's 
> going on in your head, but I remember after JKR's words about DD 
> that *you* said that *you* equated DD being gay with his 
witholding 
> love from you or rejecting you--iow, with being someone *you* 
could 
> not be in love 
> > with, and this was a loss for you. But I don't think we can 
assume 
> > this is such a universal thing that JKR, too, must necessarily 
be 
> > using homosexuality as a symbol of DD being off-limits as a love 
> > object for her. 
> 
> Tonks:
> I am a Psychotherapist.  I am not making this up and it is 
universal 
> for a woman who is not a lesbian. Since you are tying to make this 
> personal, I will say for the record that I had a very good 
> relationship with my own father. 

Magpie:
I'm not trying to make it personal--your relationship to your own 
father never entered my head. I just remembered what you said, which 
is why I referenced it. You said that since DD was gay you felt 
you'd lost something that way, which was a perfectly valid way to 
feel for yourself, and this seemed to naturally connect to that. 

I'm not even questioning whatever the current ideas of psychotherapy 
are about women and their fathers, I'm just pointing out that all we 
know is that she always thought of DD as gay and that she's 
estranged from her father, and that it's not necessarily a 
straightforward line between the second and the first. 

If JKR had written about Dumbledore in a way that seemed to be 
playing out what you're saying I'd be more likely to see it, but as 
it is I can just see other reasons to make a character gay even if 
you're estranged from your father than this one. Speaking from what 
I see professionally as an author and an editor, I just don't come 
up with the same formula. It could be true, of course, for all I 
know. It's hard for me not to connect "I have a bad relationship to 
my father" with the litany of bad fathers in canon, so I understand 
making the connection. But since I don't make this connection 
myself, I naturally need more convincing.

-m




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 21:37:05 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:37:05 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <foeva7+h269@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foftm1+o80h@eGroups.com>

---  "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> I've recently started using my teens' computer to check the 
> list. Why is it that on my clunker, once I've read a post, 
> it changes color, but on their computer it doesn't? Does it
> have something to do with settings?
> 
> Potioncat
>

bboyminn:

Do you mean the color difference between Read and Unread links?
On my computer the text for Unread links is Blue. Once a link 
is Read, the color changes to Magenta/Maroon.

For newer browsers, the color change is immediate and automatic.
I use SeaMonkey which has tabbed browsing. I usually keep the 
list open in one tab, and open specific messages in other
tabs. However, if I move up or down a thread and access other
messages, those messages change to 'Read' in on the main list.

With my older browser, I had to reload the main page to get 
the Read links to update on the main list. 

Does this sound like what you are referring too?

If so, give us the browser names and versions. That would tell
us a lot.

Also, some it is possible in some browsers to prevent web
pages from changing your pre-set colors (and text and other
things). That usually doesn't work well as most websites
have a Style Sheet that dictactes the look of the site and
keeps it consistent from page to page. As I said, you can
override this but the results aren't always good.

That's about the best I can do with the limited information
I have.

Steve/bluewizard




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 19:43:08 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:43:08 -0000
Subject: eWizards everywhere celebrate
Message-ID: <fofn0c+c2b@eGroups.com>

eWizards everywhere celebrate:
Malefisoft finally challenged by Appleck's latest releases.

Malefisoft has dominated the technology field the past two
decades, but Margentosh van Appleck (aka Snow White in some
English cultures) refuses to pick the virus-infected Apple
from her basket. For the rest of wizarding world that's up
to speed with latest electronic trends, this is great news.
'A competitive market means whoever is fairest will provide
us with the best options of them all in the land' says
Mirror/Mirror Press. Obviously, the writing is on the wall:

We interviewed seven individuals (and ironically enough) all
were short providing the following comments:

The first said, 'problem I always had before when I had that
huge workstation that took up most my desk was "Who has been
sitting on my chair?" but with Margentosh I now find myself
asking "Who has been usng my laptop?"

The second, 'I hate people touching my things, it used to be
"Who has been eating off my plate?" but now it seems to be
"Who has been logging on using my ID?"

The third, says, 'yeah I'm greedy I want as much as I can get,
so I used to ask "Who has been taking some of my bread?" now
I  see people using up my disk space and I say "Who has been
downloading such large files?"

The fourth, comments on that he loves to grow things, whether
they are organic or just ideas, he used to say "Who has been
eating my vegetables?" but now the question is "Who has been
responding to all these posts?"

The fifth hates for his material things to be touched. He used
to notice things like "Who has been using my fork?" but this
no longer matters, with his wireless equipment he wants to
know "Who has been touching my mouse?"

The sixth, is similar to the fifth but has more of an incentive
to keep his things safe, he's a security expert and owns what
could be deadly tools. He used to ask "Who has been cutting
with my knife?" but now it's "Who has been changing my firewall
settings?"

The seventh, likes to live life and while doing that enjoy it.
He's pretty stingy and used to not want any ale to be wasted
except on himself. His problem was always "Who has been drinking
out of my mug?" now it's "Who has been copying needless files
onto all my blank CDs?"

For the rest of us, these seem to just dwarf what the biggest
issues of the day are: What is Margentosh van Appleck going to
do to compete with Malefisoft?

Their answer is simple, "we have found our Prince Charming:
Yelisei. He says it's just a matter of waking up by kissing
up to our goals, NOW!" This means Margentosh is planning to
immediately implement the following  five consumer products:

iPensieve = take notes in class with ease, record your favorite
moments at the Yule Ball, save and retrieve the most demanding
potions at the touch of your finger
all these features would
make Snape rethink that the powers of the dark arts would even
pale in comparison.

?l-Phone = instant-owl-text messaging to any of your fellow
house mates, submit instant e-scrolls to professors before
those nasty deadlines reach, galleon free nights and weekends
with friends and families, and cast e-spells wherever! Our
service coverage is backed up by Gringotts satisfaction
guaranteed
more wands than any other service.

hy-br?m is now economy friendly with less globally harming
spells

quidiX which is next generation in quiditch, adding the factors
of the X-games and is sponsored by Wiii (weasleys' wizard wheezes)

mahgoogle.com = search engine for wizards who are interested in
the very similar muggle's google

bdclark0423



From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 01:56:21 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:56:21 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <47AB1F5B.9020808@watch.renals.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fogcs5+onbe@eGroups.com>

> Olly
> First off you haven't provided  enough information to be able
> to answer your question.  What software are you using to read
> the list (IE: Internet Explorer / Firefox / Email client)?

> Your computer has probably had some of the display settings
> changed. If you want to change the options on your computer
> we need to know what software you are using, so that the right
> instructions can be given.


bdclark0423 says:
Olly is right, more info is needed in order to assess. Most
browser software keeps HTML information in temporary files
on your hard drive so that when you are accessing a site,
the program can process all the data on the page at quicker
speeds.

Most software allows the user to change the allocation settings
for these temporary files.  For example, Internet Explorer allows
you to select how long to keep this data in the temp files, where
to store the files, and to set the limit on capacity to be kept.
Some of this data is what is called 'cookies' and like Hansel &
Gretel, no matter where you navigate, you leave a trail of crumbs
so you can go back and nibble at places you've already been. At
any time, you can manually delete your cookies, delete the temp
files, and delete all history the software has stored. You can
choose the default font you would like to read web pages, have
font styles ignored, colors used in text, etc.

Another feature is to designate what colors you want URLs to
be when you haven't visited the site (more, appropriately where
there aren't any cookies that can be seen) and those site in
which you have visited. So for Internet Explorer 6.0, from the
Tools Menu-Internet Options..., when dialogue box opens you'll
see in the bottom left-hand corner you can change the default
colors for the links visited and unvisited.

Hope this helps....

bdclark0423



From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Feb  8 03:12:57 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:12:57 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <foeva7+h269@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foghbp+ip9f@eGroups.com>

Thanks Olly, Steve and bdclark0423.

Please don't take offense, but I didn't understand a word you said.
And what's worse, I had painful flashbacks of standing in a garage
trying to explain what was wrong with my car by making "ta-pok-ata"
noises while several mechanics exchanged amused glances.

But OK, on the kids' computer we use firefox  to get on-line. I've
always used explorer on mine. Is that software? It might be helpful to
add that the kids' computer was recently rebuilt by the high school
computer class. While there are several things it doesn't do at all,
before being rebuilt it did nothing.

It is very fast at what it does, and the screen is much easier to
read. I suspect I will just have to remember where I left off, rather
than skimming for the blue subject lines. Or could it be as simple as
using explorer? (Only, how would I get it?) Then again, maybe I should
go back to my trusty, comfortable contraption.

Potioncat





From Schlobin at aol.com  Fri Feb  8 05:26:34 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:26:34 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <foeamq+mruj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fogp6a+337m@eGroups.com>

> 
> Tonks:
> If God or DD is gay he is out of bounds for her psychologically. 
> Since usually a young girl's father is a love object for her, if 
she 
> had a bad relationship with her real father she has to make any 
> substitute father figure out of bounds as far as 'falling in love' 
> goes.  She can not therefor be 'in love' with God or with any other 
> father image. It is a subconscious thing. It is not about sex, so 
> her husband is a different story. Althought she may have had some 
> difficulty in relationships with other men in her life before her 
> current husband, because a girl's relationship with her father will 
> have an effect on all other relationships with men after his.
> 
> Tonks_op
>

Thanks for the explanation and I also read where you stated that this 
is universal for women except for lesbians.

Could you tell me what school of theory this is from? 

I must be misunderstanding it. When you say that 
"Since usually a young girl's father is a love object for her"
do you mean she has sexual feelings for him? Is this a Freudian 
analysis?
(wait can't be, you said later it's not about sex)
If she had a bad relationship with her real father, wouldn't it be 
more likely she would transfer feelings of love for another older man?
Why would a father substitute be "out of bounds?"

Then you say:
Althought she may have had some 
> difficulty in relationships with other men in her life before her 
> current husband, because a girl's relationship with her father will 
> have an effect on all other relationships with men after his.
> 

Well, my guess is a girl's relationship with her mother and her 
siblings will have an effect on all other relationships with men.

We all know that JKR's first marriage did not work out, but you seem 
to be contradicting yourself when you say it will have an effect 
on "all other relationships with men" after this. After all, her 
current relationship seems to be fine.

Still confused.

And how does this theory affect bisexual women?

Susan





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 07:18:59 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 07:18:59 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fogp6a+337m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fogvp3+beta@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" 
<Schlobin at ...> wrote:
> Thanks for the explanation and I also read where you stated that 
this is universal for women except for lesbians. 
> Could you tell me what school of theory this is from?  
> I must be misunderstanding it. When you say that 
> "Since usually a young girl's father is a love object for her"
> do you mean she has sexual feelings for him? Is this a Freudian 
> analysis?
> (wait can't be, you said later it's not about sex)
> If she had a bad relationship with her real father, wouldn't it be 
> more likely she would transfer feelings of love for another older 
man? Why would a father substitute be "out of bounds?"
> 
> Then you say:
> Althought she may have had some 
> > difficulty in relationships with other men in her life before 
her current husband, because a girl's relationship with her father 
will have an effect on all other relationships with men after his.
> >  
> Well, my guess is a girl's relationship with her mother and her 
> siblings will have an effect on all other relationships with men.
> 
> We all know that JKR's first marriage did not work out, but you 
seem to be contradicting yourself when you say it will have an 
effect on "all other relationships with men" after this. After all, 
her current relationship seems to be fine.
> 
> Still confused. 
> And how does this theory affect bisexual women?


Tonks:
Gosh.. I didn't mean to start all of this. Yes it is mostly 
Freudian. The  psycho-social-sexual phases of development. I don't 
know how it goes for bisexual women, we never studied that, or gays 
either for that matter.

First when I say that it isn't sexual, I mean the physical aspect, 
she is not lusting for her father, in other words. It is an Eros 
type of Love, not Venus, to use C.S. Lewis' word.

I was originally making reference to the Electra stage of 
psychological development, which is the female counterpart to the 
Oedipus phase in boys. Briefly, (in people who grow up to be 
heterosexual) both sexes start out having as their primary 
identification and love their mothers. Later the boy changes his 
identification to his father and keeps the mother as the love 
object. A girl keeps her identification with her mother, and changes 
her love object to her father.

How this translates in her adult live is that if a girl had a bad 
relationship with her father, saw him as distant and unloving, she 
might later see all men that way. She might also set up 
relationships to mimic the one that she had with her father. Not on 
a conscious level, but on an unconscious level.  If the father were 
physically abusive, she might marry an abusive man, for example.

It is not unusual for people who believe in a God figure to project 
onto that figure the experiences that they had with their parents. 
This is why people who had very strict parents often see God as 
strict and judgmental instead of kind and loving. Since in 
Christianity God is depicted as male, many women who have had a bad 
relationship with their fathers find it difficult to have a positive 
relationship with God because of the whole God/male thing. 

As to Rowling and her current husband, I would expect with all of 
the money that she made, she probably had some therapy, or maybe 
somehow just learned from the past. I don't know. And they haven't 
been married that long yet, so we really don't know do we? Or care, 
for that matter. ;-)

Tonks_op





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 07:44:54 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 07:44:54 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <foghbp+ip9f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foh19m+rmbl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" 
<willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Olly, Steve and bdclark0423.
> 
Potioncat:
> Please don't take offense, but I didn't understand a word you said.
> And what's worse, I had painful flashbacks of standing in a garage
> trying to explain what was wrong with my car by making "ta-pok-ata"
> noises while several mechanics exchanged amused glances.
> 
> But OK, on the kids' computer we use firefox  to get on-line. I've
> always used explorer on mine. Is that software? (Snip) I suspect I 
will just have to remember where I left off, rather than skimming 
for the blue subject lines. Or could it be as simple as
> using explorer? (Only, how would I get it?) Then again, maybe I 
should go back to my trusty, comfortable contraption.

Tonks:
Hi Potioncat. I think what they are saying is that the cookies are 
turned off on the kid's computer. Firefox and Internet Explorer are 
browsers. There should be a IE link somewhere on there, maybe just 
not on the desktop. I just pulled up Firefox (which I don't like) 
and tested it. I am seeing the same thing that you are. No visited 
link color changes. So it is in the Firefox browser. Maybe there is 
a way to get it to work, but I don't know how. I would go into the 
control panel and see if you can find IE on that machine. I will 
leave it to the guys to tell you how, I am not that much of a tec 
person.

Good luck.

Tonks_op




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 08:39:35 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:39:35 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <foh19m+rmbl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foh4g7+2c5b@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
> Hi Potioncat. I think what they are saying is that the cookies are 
> turned off on the kid's computer. Firefox and Internet Explorer 
are 
> browsers. There should be a IE link somewhere on there, maybe just 
> not on the desktop. I just pulled up Firefox (which I don't like) 
> and tested it. I am seeing the same thing that you are. No visited 
> link color changes. So it is in the Firefox browser. Maybe there 
is 
> a way to get it to work, but I don't know how. I would go into the 
> control panel and see if you can find IE on that machine. I will 
> leave it to the guys to tell you how, I am not that much of a tec 
> person.
> 

Well, when I saw you used the term 'clunker' and in your latest 
post 'contraption,' I figured it possible the most you knew would be 
where keyboard and mouse were, but at same time, i didn't want to 
insult you either, so I thought I had exlained fairly simple 
enough.  Of course, when you start using acronyms and terms others 
aren't familiar with, the whole explanation isn't worth a darn 
thing.  

So.....let's try this again.

The links you have already visited change colors because your 
software (the programing that tells your computer what to do) knows 
you have already read it because all this data is actually stored on 
your computer itself rather than where you would think, on that 
realm of 'out-there' we call the internet.

Tonks says Firefox does have this option like Internet Explorer to 
let you know what links you've read, so you should be able to change 
the way Firefox is configured, it just a matter of knowing how to 
change your settings.

I'm currently downloading Firefox and will send you an e-mail with 
step by step instructions and screen shots explaining how to do 
this.  If this won't help, you'll have to either live with links 
displayed the way they are on your teens' machine or stop using that 
old hunk-a-junk as a foot rest. 




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Fri Feb  8 08:53:01 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:53:01 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fogvp3+beta@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foh59d+n7v6@eGroups.com>

 "Tonks"  wrote:

> As to Rowling and her current husband, I would expect with all of 
> the money that she made, she probably had some therapy, or maybe 
> somehow just learned from the past. I don't know. And they haven't 
> been married that long yet, so we really don't know do we? Or care, 
> for that matter. ;-)
> 
> Tonks_op
>
Anne T. Squires:

If her relationship with her husband has an affect on your
position/argument then we care.  I mean, we care in the sense that it
can help refute or validate what you are arguing; we care in a purely
academic sense of the word.  I would like to point out that JKR has
been married to her current husband since December 2001, so just over
six years then.  That seems like a fairly long time to me.  They have
two children together.  The marriage appears happy and healthy.  But,
who knows; appearances can be deceiving.

As far as Freudian psychoanalysis is concerned I'd like to point out
that although Freud's theories were influential, they came under
widespread criticism during his lifetime and afterward. I am certainly
not an expert. I have taken a few psych courses in my time.  I was
also in therapy for a while with a doctor who did not not use a
Freudian approach.  But, as I said I'm no expert when I comes to
psychiatry.  I would like to say this though.  Freud's theories are
highly controversial.  Many people do not buy into them; I am one of
those people.

Anne




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 12:29:51 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:29:51 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fogvp3+beta@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohhvv+e185@eGroups.com>

> 
> Tonks:
> Gosh.. I didn't mean to start all of this... 
> As to Rowling and her current husband, I would expect with all of 
> the money that she made, she probably had some therapy, or maybe 
> somehow just learned from the past. I don't know. And they haven't 
> been married that long yet, so we really don't know do we? Or 
care, 
> for that matter. ;-)
> 
> Tonks_op
>

Oh Tonks, Tonks Tonks, what are we going to do with you
..

You're right you shouldn't have started all this, especially when 
admitting to `we never studied that, or gays either for that 
matter."  Therefore you can't really base any analysis on how DD 
represents projected love and God like figure.

But I know, that your goal as a psychoanalyst is to provide a 
positive influence over the sometimes brutal machinations within the 
mind.

Let's just face it, human sexuality is complicated enough.  But to 
include emotional needs and desires, physical needs and desires, 
intellectual, spiritual, social
.you cannot, and I hope you do not, 
make such general assumptions on someone's psyche based on just one 
set of fictional characters, and what media has portrayed to the 
public.

Yes, for most Christians, god is a father figure, but that is all 
engrained into society and religion.  If you are spiritual you know 
that God does not take a gender because he does not need to.  He can 
be a father at times, as well as, a mother.  In fact, this is what 
my mother came to find out and eventually passed along to me.  She 
also says that it's through Jesus that her sexual desires are 
fulfilled.  Now, I'm not going to go and try to analyze that
.that's 
for sure.  I'm gay male and I just don't see how that would work but 
then again I really don't understand woman's need (like just about 
all men don't).  But this is what I do understand: my mother who 
being divorced for more than 15 years, without having physical 
contact with another man, and who could be considered very sexual in 
nature is very satisfied with this relationship she has found 
spiritually with her self, God and his son.  She doesn't put these 
things out of reach or consider it a physical impossibility because 
that's what God is doing to us
he reaches out to us because he does 
love us and wants us to love him.

It also was she you showed me that it is love that given 
unconditionally which is pure.  In our society today, when we seek 
love/sex/romance it is an abomination to what love truly is.  But we 
all have the idea that we all deserve to have the happy ending with 
the perfect person with the right home with the right
.whatever, and 
this message is completely wrong because it dwells on greed for 
oneself.  The message should be taught that we give love and not 
find it. Because it is what you project that will come back to you. 

bdclark0423
BTW, i just don't get why so many people are obsessed with the fact 
on all the money she's made....she never wanted to be this big, she 
just wanted to tell good children stories....and i remember one of 
her first interviews where she said she hopes they never come to her 
asking her to make a movie......
bdclark0423




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Feb  8 13:00:09 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:00:09 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <foh4g7+2c5b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohjop+26lu@eGroups.com>

 "bdclark0423" 
> 
> Well, when I saw you used the term 'clunker' and in your latest 
> post 'contraption,' I figured it possible the most you knew would be 
> where keyboard and mouse were, but at same time, i didn't want to 
> insult you either, so I thought I had exlained fairly simple 
> enough.  Of course, when you start using acronyms and terms others 
> aren't familiar with, the whole explanation isn't worth a darn 
> thing.  

Potioncat:
Yes, that's always a difficult path, speaking in appropriately simple
terms so to communicate without insulting. I run into it with my own
foreign language (medical speak) But you're right, keyboard and mouse
are about the only computer terms I understand. Although I can't
always find them, because they are wireless and sometimes walk away.

>bdclark0423 
> So.....let's try this again.

Potioncat:
Uh oh, now you're sounding like Professor Snape. At least I would know
where to find a bezoar.

> 
>bdclark0423
> I'm currently downloading Firefox and will send you an e-mail with 
> step by step instructions and screen shots explaining how to do 
> this.  If this won't help, you'll have to either live with links 
> displayed the way they are on your teens' machine or stop using that 
> old hunk-a-junk as a foot rest.

Potioncat:
It worked! It worked! The potion turned the most perfect shade of
magenta! 

BTW, you were right about the history setting ;-)

Thank you so much! 

And I just realized that I have spell check as I write the post. Is
that Firefox, or a setting on the computer? I don't have it on the
other one when I write posts.








From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 13:22:23 2008
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 07:22:23 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fogvp3+beta@eGroups.com>
References: <fogp6a+337m@eGroups.com> <fogvp3+beta@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40802080522u7f33a660p454e2e1af1d98e47@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Tonks:
> As to Rowling and her current husband, I would expect with all of
> the money that she made, she probably had some therapy, or maybe
> somehow just learned from the past. I don't know. And they haven't
> been married that long yet, so we really don't know do we? Or care,
> for that matter. ;-)


montims:

well, I have stayed out of this thread up to now, because I didn't know
where to begin to respond to most of the points that Tonks has made.  I am
astounded by the assertion "I am a Psychotherapist.  I am not making this up
and it is universal for a woman who is not a lesbian."  I hope Tonks does
not have too many clients - I feel for any vulnerable, damaged
person exposed to this kind of bigotry and half-baked ("I don't know how it
goes for bisexual women, we never studied that, or gays either for that
matter." Really?) theories.  Do you confirm their sexual orientation before
you decide to treat them?  Does your business card state that you have
studied only heterosexual psychology???  Do you really believe gays and
heterosexual people are different?

Anyway - I jumped in because of the above assertion, just to say that JKR is
British - I very very much doubt that she would have had therapy of any
kind.  I think realising she had money in the bank would have led her to buy
shoes if anything, not therapy...

And also - a question.  The OP mentioned and interview which I have not
seen, but evidently talks about "her mother's losing battle with multiple
sclerosis to Rowling's eventual estrangement from her father".  Now, I may
be wrong, without knowing what was actually said, but "eventual
estrangement" to me reads like something that happened after her mother's
death, in JKR's adult years.  If that is indeed the case, then all Tonks'
postulating about young girls' love affairs with their fathers, and making
God gay, and whatever else, is moot, as we are not speaking of a young
girl's feelings, but the rational, or otherwise, choice of an adult woman.

Oh yes, and one final thing -  "Since in Christianity God is depicted as
male, many women who have had a bad relationship with their fathers find it
difficult to have a positive relationship with God because of the whole
God/male thing."  That does not bear out with historical and biographical
testimony of Catholic women in Ireland, Italy, etc, or with the number of
women who have historically escaped bad families to become nuns, saints, and
other holy women, and embraced the love of God and/or Jesus with their
hearts and souls.

Freud was great because he demolished a few taboos of the time, and opened
the door for others to pass through, but he was hugely flawed, as were many
of his theories...  It is worth reading him in context, and understanding
why he believed as he did, but his ideas, while they strike lots of mental
bells and give rise to many aha moments for those who have previously led
sheltered or insular lives, do not actually stand up when applied in real
life situations...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 13:27:29 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:27:29 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fohjop+26lu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohlc1+k8go@eGroups.com>

> >bdclark0423 
> > So.....let's try this again.
> 
> Potioncat:
> Uh oh, now you're sounding like Professor Snape. At least I would 
know
> where to find a bezoar.
>

Really, this is like Snape?....(I guess if I really were a teacher 
at Hogwarts, I'd probably would end up most like him, sadly enough)

Anwyay...


 
> 
> Potioncat:
> It worked! It worked! The potion turned the most perfect shade of
> magenta! 
> 
> BTW, you were right about the history setting ;-)
> 
> Thank you so much! 
>

your welcome, I definitely consider my self someone who likes to 
teach others (hair's pretty greasy, too :-P)



 
> And I just realized that I have spell check as I write the post. Is
> that Firefox, or a setting on the computer? I don't have it on the
> other one when I write posts.
>


Yup, definitely part of Firefox, this is not part of Internet 
exxplorer....Explorar, Expolar....escpoil



yeah, I find myself having to pre-type my messages in Word first, 
then copy into Internet Explorer before posting....





From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 14:22:35 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:22:35 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802080522u7f33a660p454e2e1af1d98e47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fohojb+9pgk@eGroups.com>


bdclark0423:

Funny, but not sure if it's true about being English and the money being
spent on shoes rather than therapy, but you've just contradicted
yourself by making generalization about a group of people right after
admonishing  Tonks for doing the same thing.

I think Tonks realizes that (s)he really didn't mean for the
discussion to go in this direction, but (s)he obviously didn't do
anything to prevent it from happening either
.I mean come on....the
replies kept coming with even more sensitive topics just being added to
the pot:  abuse, abandonment, homosexuality, God, subconscious motifs to
kill, Freudian psycho-sexual theories, I mean Tonks really just keeps
pushing, huh?

But I too, have a degree which heavily included child psychology, and
everything Tons said, in my understanding of many psychological models,
is in line with those schools of thought.  And since Freudian is
considered to be beginning of modern psychology, it is hard to move away
from some of the fundamentals, whether you feel they're right or
not, because it's so hard not to just see the glaring and obvious
similarities in the way we humans still behave today.

As in my previous post, I truly feel Tonks has the intention of
providing a positive reinforcement to the complexities of the psyche. 
Considering the brain is still a huge unmapped region for us, this makes
it far from being an exact science.

What we have is basically built upon tendencies we see in human
behavior, which I believe Tonks is trying to explain.  Just because you
think strawberries should be more like apples, doesn't make them
grow on trees.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 14:32:13 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:32:13 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohojb+9pgk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohp5d+4ons@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bdclark0423" 
<bdclark0423 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> bdclark0423:
> 
> Funny, but not sure if it's true about being English and the money 
being
> spent on shoes rather than therapy, but you've just contradicted
> yourself by making generalization about a group of people right 
after
> admonishing  Tonks for doing the same thing.
><SNIP>


Alla:

It IS of course generalisation as well, but generalisation I can see 
much easier than another one.

Let me explain. I have no idea whether Janette meant the same thing, 
but for example if JKR were by ethnicity ukrainian jew as I am or 
actually person who was born and raised in the soviet union, I would 
probably made the same generalisation, while totally realising that 
it IS generalisation.

When I was growing up, people did not go to psychotherapist, people 
just did not. Why you ask me? First of all I am not even sure if such 
profession existed. I mean it probably did, just was not well known 
to general population and maybe some tiny numbers of people did use 
it.

Psychiatrists existed obviously, but you see it was a stigma that 
either only "crasy" people go to psychiatrist, or what's even worse 
people who were opposing communist regime and get caught, were 
declared crasy, given some antipsychotic medications sometimes. 
HORRIBLE.

One did not use psychotherapist to get something of one's chest. One 
used friends to talk things out, you know?

What I am trying to say is that if many people do not use the 
therapy, I think generalisation can be valid enough.

Alla 




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  8 15:01:42 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:01:42 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohp5d+4ons@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohqsm+rer8@eGroups.com>

> > bdclark0423:
> > 
> > Funny, but not sure if it's true about being English and the 
money 
> being
> > spent on shoes rather than therapy, but you've just contradicted
> > yourself by making generalization about a group of people right 
> after
> > admonishing  Tonks for doing the same thing.
> ><SNIP>
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> It IS of course generalisation as well, but generalisation I can 
see 
> much easier than another one.

Magpie:
I thought Janette's wasn't so much claiming that British people 
never went to therapy, but rejecting the idea that we could assume 
she'd been to therapy because she had money, because therapy wasn't 
as common in the UK as in the US. (Actually, if I were to think JKR 
went to a therapist ever it wouldn't be because she had money but 
because she's suffered from depression--but I've no idea if she ever 
did or not.)

-m




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 15:13:27 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:13:27 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohqsm+rer8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohrin+fm7u@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> I thought Janette's wasn't so much claiming that British people 
> never went to therapy, but rejecting the idea that we could assume 
> she'd been to therapy because she had money, because therapy wasn't 
> as common in the UK as in the US. (Actually, if I were to think JKR 
> went to a therapist ever it wouldn't be because she had money but 
> because she's suffered from depression--but I've no idea if she 
ever 
> did or not.)
> 


Alla:

Well, yes of course. I do not think somebody will go to therapy just 
because somebody has money.  I think somebody will go if somebody is 
depressed or has other things that he or she hopes therapy will help 
with.

What I am saying that the generalisation can be valid enough even in 
a sense that somebody will not go to therapy even if somebody is 
depressed or has other psychological problems.


Alla.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  8 15:26:25 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:26:25 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohrin+fm7u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohsb1+uqbl@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> 
> Well, yes of course. I do not think somebody will go to therapy just 
> because somebody has money.  I think somebody will go if somebody is 
> depressed or has other things that he or she hopes therapy will help 
> with.
> 
> What I am saying that the generalisation can be valid enough even in 
> a sense that somebody will not go to therapy even if somebody is 
> depressed or has other psychological problems.

Magpie:
Oh yes--I got that was what you meant. I was basically agreeing with 
you. 

-m




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 16:07:30 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:07:30 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohqsm+rer8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohuo2+9t4m@eGroups.com>


> Magpie:
> I thought Janette's wasn't so much claiming that British people
> never went to therapy, but rejecting the idea that we could assume
> she'd been to therapy because she had money, because therapy wasn't
> as common in the UK as in the US. (Actually, if I were to think JKR
> went to a therapist ever it wouldn't be because she had money but
> because she's suffered from depression--but I've no idea if she ever
> did or not.)
>
> -m
>


bdclark0423

Yes, my family is from US, but they were originally from Britain, so
what Janette said actually made me laugh, I could see my grandfather
doing the same thing because of the whole British attitude.  So, I saw
this somewhat as a slam on British culture and totally enjoyed her
comparison BUT you must admit using terminology such as bigotry and
half-baked theories does make what Jannett was trying to say a little
bit more on the offensive side.  But then she flat out wishes someone
ill fortune `I hope Tonks does not have too many clients'  well
this can be considered same as `I hope you loose your job because of
your beliefs'

So just as Tonks makes some generalizing remarks, so does Janett.  Now
do you understand the contradictory message?



So, um
..



What was this post about again
..?



Oh yeah, the interview with JKR.



Tonks, in a rather dry humoursly manner, submitted her thoughts on the
article and since the article only hints on psychological reasons why
Harry was born, and how all the other emotional pressures she was
experiencing at that time pretty much helped JKR deal with things and
work her why back into the light through the use of her literary
skills?and this is one of the best forms of therapy, so hopefully
for us, she won't go to therapy, but just write more books.

But article gives the reader barely a skeletal background, and so Tonks
is just providing her theories to some of the passages.  And the
signature alone tells you that this really is no big deal.

Tonks_op
who thinks that JKR is a great writer, who secretly wants to be a
serial killer. This way she has the best of all possible worlds.
Kills them all off and gets paid for it too. And no jail time. ;-)

Unfortunately, some of the terms used immediately cause emotional
responses in people automatically and now, here we are talking about how
US people are so neurotic that even their psychologists are neurotic,
but in UK, people don't care, just as long as they've got new
shoes on their feet <g>

bdclark0423

But seriously, it's funny....








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 16:22:46 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:22:46 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohuo2+9t4m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fohvkm+pjkm@eGroups.com>

> bdclark0423
> 
> Yes, my family is from US, but they were originally from Britain, so
> what Janette said actually made me laugh, I could see my grandfather
> doing the same thing because of the whole British attitude.  So, I 
saw
> this somewhat as a slam on British culture and totally enjoyed her
> comparison BUT you must admit using terminology such as bigotry and
> half-baked theories does make what Jannett was trying to say a 
little
> bit more on the offensive side.  But then she flat out wishes 
someone
> ill fortune `I hope Tonks does not have too many clients'  well
> this can be considered same as `I hope you loose your job because of
> your beliefs'
> 
> So just as Tonks makes some generalizing remarks, so does Janett.  
Now
> do you understand the contradictory message?
> 
><SNIP>


Alla:

Actually I still don't. I see from one side the remark about it is 
all universal for the woman unless she is  a lesbian.

And from another side the remark about British not likely to go to 
psychotherapist.

I guess what's missing for me here is how the remark that british 
person is not likely to go to psychotherapist is a slam on british 
culture. If you could extrapolate on that, I may see contradictory 
message, maybe.

Like as I said, I am taking the remark that the person of my culture 
is not likely to go to psychotherapist as a fact. I left Ukraine ten 
years ago, so maybe things changed, but when I left it was a fact.

And if I hear such remark, it is not an insult for me, it is a fact 
of life.

How is it different for british person I am not sure at all.

I mean, again, if you ( generic you) as a british person IS likely to 
go to therapist ( I mean if you wish to), then sure you can say it is 
a generalization, etc.

But still if another person knows that the majority of the population 
is NOT going to go, I think it is still Okay to say that.

JMO,

Alla




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 17:35:49 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:35:49 -0000
Subject: JK Rowling on CBC Newsworld tonight
In-Reply-To: <fohvkm+pjkm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foi3tl+6nba@eGroups.com>

bdclark0423

The remark Jannett makes could be considered slanderous because it's 
a sarcastic remark directed towards a specific group of people 
choosing to buy material goods to make you feel better (most likely 
just a short term effect) when perhaps in the long term it would be 
better to pay for therapy.  British are considered to have a dry 
sense of humor laiden with sarcasm, irony and witt.  They can come 
off as un-emotional on the surface, as any indication of loss of 
personal control is considered a weakness.  Yet, they seem to revel 
the fact if they can see someone esle suffering the same (the ironic 
twist), hence, her comment was apres pos.  My grandather came from 
an orphanage, but had worked hard, made decent living for his 
family, and when his father-in-law died, left him the family 
business, the telephone company for the small town they lived in.  
When Southern Bell merged with another telephone company (can't 
remember the name) this town was under the regional coverage of the 
merger, so they bought my grandfather out for millions of dollars.  
Now that he's a millionare, he's too stubborn to spend money on 
anything that would show that he is weak, hence once again the 
ironic twist.

modern psychology is said to have had it's birth with Austrian 
Sigmund Frued around 1900 or so, and he worked his way up the in the 
science world to finally consider himself a doctor of psychology 
amongst the elite of Vienna (this is all by memory, so not sure on 
exact facts but just trying to set the basis)  so really, it was 
only the noble classes of Europe that considered psychology a truly 
medical practice throughout the world until the mid-60s after birth-
control pill was evented and the american sexual revolution began.  
american youth rebelled against the straight laced, established 
institutions of the middle class.  psychodelic drugs, vagan diets, 
eastern philosphy, civil rights, and free love was the appettite of 
the day.  shortly afterwards, the youth of this era were no longer 
so, they started to settle down and raise families, but they still 
maintained there liberated ideas.  With families of their own, in 
their own ways wanted to still be consired the counterculture from 
the previous generation.  New ways of education, discipline,  
religion, medicine, and therapy were born out of this new society 
that advocated that a person shouldn't just be physically healthy, 
but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.  

It was no longer the status quo to have material goods, if you 
couldn't fully enjoy the time to have them.

Anyway, i don't know why I'm going on like this except you've asked 
me to explain how US culture thinks about therapy, i guess.  but if 
you want my own opinion, sure therapy can be helpful, but there's so 
many different ways to have therapy (like talk to your friends, play 
an intrument, post on the internet, etc)  Personally, I would buy 
the shoes too....

This is still not the point.  please read my previous post as I'm 
trying to explain that just because there were certain terms used, 
the flood of replies was response when (in my opinion) was 
unnecessary, and so you see this going back and forth, you said 
this, and I fell this way, and why do feel that blah blah blah.....

anyway, i've totally lost focus on why i'm replying now


I guess, just treat each other respect, and if you feel offended, it 
may not be the other person's fault, it all could just be simple 
misinterperation...

I'll be happy to answer any more questions you have, but it's 
probably better not to continue to add to this post as it's probably 
a dead topic by now

bdclark0423




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 18:07:14 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:07:14 -0000
Subject: Difficulty of communication on the Internet/ was JK Rowling on CBC News
In-Reply-To: <foi3tl+6nba@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foi5oi+cj6n@eGroups.com>

>
> bdclark0423
> 
> anyway, i've totally lost focus on why i'm replying now
> 
> 
> I guess, just treat each other respect, and if you feel offended, 
it 
> may not be the other person's fault, it all could just be simple 
> misinterperation...
> 

Tonks:
lol .. welcome to OT, where we even get so far OT that we get off 
the 'Off Topic' topic... and on and on. 

I have to confess that I do have that dry satirical humor that you 
mentioned, but I was born in the U.S. 

I have found that it doesn't matter what you say here someone will 
read into it and take it in a direction that you never meant to go. 
And if you say something such as "this doesn't apply to (this 
group)", because you know someone will say "that doesn't apply to 
(that group)" and you are trying to short circuit that before it 
starts, then someone else will say, "what do you have against (that 
group)"... because they think that just because you used a term it 
was a slur. And the fact that they perceived the term as a slur 
means that it is a bad word to them, not necessary to the person who 
used it.. and what does that really say in the end.. and then we go 
around and around and eventually we are all damned anyway we turn.

Isn???t it fun??

Tonks_op





From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 19:39:43 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:39:43 -0000
Subject: Difficulty of communication on the Internet/ was JK Rowling on CBC News
In-Reply-To: <foi5oi+cj6n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foib5v+5m1f@eGroups.com>


> Tonks:
> lol .. welcome to OT, where we even get so far OT that we get off
> the 'Off Topic' topic... and on and on.
>
> I have to confess that I do have that dry satirical humor that you
> mentioned, but I was born in the U.S.
>


bdclark0423

Hey, someone took off the old topic so we're no longer off-topic but off
the OT topic off oOtqOOfTOToFFF or whatever...

Anway, yes Tonks, i can tell your US born, and I noticed your humor
immediately, but I remember now why I wrote that last noveletta to ALLA

Americans and Brits are, of course, sister countries (although England
still things they're the mother country) and a comment like 'you bloody
wanka, you don'ave enough sense t' go t'a'shrink now do'ya? isn't
technically a slam since the British are known for avoiding psychologist
are what have you.  It's more of a friendly jib like pooking fun at a
friend for a characteristic he's known for.  I was able to find the
following to sort of desribe what a Brit is to be considered, it a post
card with pictures on it so I'll just copy this link: 
http://www.ac-nancy-metz.fr/enseign/anglais/Henry/perfect2.jpg
<http://www.ac-nancy-metz.fr/enseign/anglais/Henry/perfect2.jpg>

So while it's saying one thing, the picture is displaying not the quite
same, and so quite adequately is demonstrating the subtle wit that is
common with British humor.  You'll notice that there are jabs at their
fellow statesmen.  So it is with Americans and Canadians.  I work for
Global Company, so my co-workers are Candadian, Argentinean, Irish,
South African, Australian, etc.  and not sure how it is in other
language beside English and Spanish but it is common to tease the other
countries with stereotypes  i.e. I tell by canadian buds all the time,
why don't you go drink some molsen, eat some maple syrup, and knock your
teeth out by playing hockey.  Obviously not all canadians do this (like
the pregnant ones) but it's a generalization none-the-less and it's not
really politically correct to say.  In fact, it would be worse than
saying what Tonks said and that was  is all universal for the woman
unless she is a lesbian, because this comment is describing a
psychological model based on the psychosomatic school of thought in
which she uses as a tool in her line of work.

Tonks is not saying the has a problem with JKR because she is/ is not
lesbian, she's not saying all non-lesbian must follow this universal
model.  (S)he is not saying anything directly towards a specific group
with an intended social agenda.  The cultural comments I made in
previous paragraph and some of the things Jannett says are, though.

Once I again, this discussion was originally based on the interview
where JKR admits she's depressed and through her own therapy of
creating literature, we see a lot of Harry being created ? a phoenix
from the flame, if you will.  Tonks views were only to start a
discussion on theories and speculation, but others didn't recognize
that, but I will leave you with the following:

> Tonks_op

>You can agree with me or not, but I am just telling you what it
>looks like from my professional POV. Of course, I can not know for
>sure since I have not discussed the matter with her personally. I
>can not see her non-verbal messages regarding her father, hear what
>her view of God is, etc. It is just a speculation at this point, a
>hypothesis.
>
>Tonks_op





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Feb  9 13:43:45 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:43:45 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fohlc1+k8go@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fokamh+fl04@eGroups.com>


> bdclark0423
> Really, this is like Snape?....(I guess if I really were a teacher 
> at Hogwarts, I'd probably would end up most like him, sadly enough)
> 
> Anwyay...

Potioncat:
Well, that was a line from the first potions class...at least in 
TMTMNBN...Oh, I guess I can say movie at this site.
> 

>bdclark0423 
> your welcome, I definitely consider my self someone who likes to 
> teach others (hair's pretty greasy, too :-P)


Potioncat:
I think you must be a good teacher if you could get me through the 
process with Firefox without a screenshot. 

My daughter is applying for college--I've noticed a number of 
colleges require "either" 2 years of a foreign language or computer 
science. I didn't get it---how are those two comparable?---until I 
asked for help with this page and found out just how much of a 
language computer science is!

Thanks again!




From yahoo at watch.renals.co.uk  Sat Feb  9 13:57:37 2008
From: yahoo at watch.renals.co.uk (Olly)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:57:37 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fokamh+fl04@eGroups.com>
References: <fokamh+fl04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47ADB151.8000203@watch.renals.co.uk>

>> bdclark0423
>> Really, this is like Snape?....(I guess if I really were a teacher
>> at Hogwarts, I'd probably would end up most like him, sadly enough)
>>
>> Anwyay...
> 
> Potioncat:
> Well, that was a line from the first potions class...at least in
> TMTMNBN...Oh, I guess I can say movie at this site.
>>
> 
>>bdclark0423
>> your welcome, I definitely consider my self someone who likes to
>> teach others (hair's pretty greasy, too :-P)
> 
> Potioncat:
> I think you must be a good teacher if you could get me through the
> process with Firefox without a screenshot.
> 
> My daughter is applying for college--I've noticed a number of
> colleges require "either" 2 years of a foreign language or computer
> science. I didn't get it---how are those two comparable?---until I
> asked for help with this page and found out just how much of a
> language computer science is!
> 
> Thanks again!


Olly:
All of the stuff you've done is the easiest stuff you can do on a computer,
the challenging comes when your witting or debugging your programming; or
even worse someone else's code.  Which is written in a different style to
yours and possibly using obsolete or bad coding methods.

Olly
Who knows webapps are the worst to get right.




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 19:31:15 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:31:15 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fokamh+fl04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fokv23+toug@eGroups.com>

> Potioncat:
> I think you must be a good teacher if you could get me through the 
> process with Firefox without a screenshot. 
> 
> My daughter is applying for college--I've noticed a number of 
> colleges require "either" 2 years of a foreign language or 
computer 
> science. I didn't get it---how are those two comparable?---until I 
> asked for help with this page and found out just how much of a 
> language computer science is!
> 
> Thanks again!
>

Well, since this is the OT chatter forum, I fell it safe to respond 
since it's OT...

I consder myself sooo lucky...I earned a degree (let's say 10-15 
years ago, but this is all hypothetical, of course :) ) and it was a 
degree in Secondary Education in Spanish, but after putting this 
into practice, I knew that this was not really the career for me...

So, I now find myself in a global company in a position that 
does diagnostics on financial procedure integrated with technology.  
Ironically enough, a lot of the programmers in the company are 
hispanic, so I not only look at current problems, consult with the 
programs on those issues, but then provide solutions that are 
effective for the business.  When you had said you speak <medical> 
speak, it could easily be considered the exact same thing...so, 
really my suggestion is the more languages you speak, the more 
skills you end up owning as not only being additional skills, but as
an asset to who you are.

Anyway, bottom line is: I helped you.  For that, I have an ear-
to-ear perma-grin.

Thanks so much for allowing me to help you and to, basically, make 
my day.

Take Care,

BDClark0423




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 19:47:11 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:47:11 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fokamh+fl04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fokvvv+rjo3@eGroups.com>


> My daughter is applying for college--I've noticed a number of 
> colleges require "either" 2 years of a foreign language or 
computer 
> science. I didn't get it---how are those two comparable?---until I 
> asked for help with this page and found out just how much of a 
> language computer science is!
> 
> Thanks again!
>

One more thing, I also have a minor in French as well,   ...and this 
may have no correlation to Spanish or Computer Science, it all goes 
back to languages.  

It wasn't until I discovered how to look at other languages 
(basically how to commminicate to others) that I started considering 
my own language and starting to take dominance over it.  That was 
also when I realized how much I have the control over what I say, 
what I understand, and what I can express.  Truly a powerful force!

Thereforw, it's not necessarily what's in your hand, but how the 
mind looks at what it is that's in your hand.....




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 22:00:44 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:00:44 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fokamh+fl04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fol7qc+jd8u@eGroups.com>

--- In  "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Potioncat:
> I think you must be a good teacher if you could get me 
> through the process with Firefox without a screenshot. 
> 
> My daughter is applying for college--I've noticed a number
> of colleges require "either" 2 years of a foreign language 
> or computer science. I didn't get it---how are those two
> comparable?---until I asked for help with this page and 
> found out just how much of a language computer science is!
> 
> Thanks again!
>

bboyminn:

Just an anecdote from my past. When I was working for a 
large computer company one of the programmers was recounting
his college days. He said to get his degree there was a
foreign language requirement, something he hadn't bothered
to do. Again, this was back when computers were pretty new.

So, he went to the language department and told the head 
that he was fluent in PASCAL programming language and that
it was a true language because it had all the identifying
characteristics of any other language; form, style, syntax, 
structure, (in a sense) grammar, etc....

So, the Head told him to write her a paper explaining why
he thought PASCAL was a true language, give her a written
example of PASCAL communication, and to document the
language.

He wrote a paper that said essentailly what he had told her
in person, handed in a print out of one of the programs he
had written, and gave her a PASCAL language book.

He got his degree.

Though I must say it didn't take long for colleges to wise
up to that dodge. Uniformly colleges will NOT take a 
computer programming language as a foreign language 
requirement. 

Just passing it on.

Steve/bboyminn




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 22:51:47 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:51:47 -0000
Subject: tech question
In-Reply-To: <fol7qc+jd8u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <folaq3+cq3a@eGroups.com>

> bboyminn:
> 
> Just an anecdote from my past
>
> Though I must say it didn't take long for colleges to wise
> up to that dodge. Uniformly colleges will NOT take a 
> computer programming language as a foreign language 
> requirement. 
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
>

bdclark0423

Ha! great. thanks for that, Steve.

bdclark0423




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 10 07:32:43 2008
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 23:32:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Buying Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <fo16ns+qp2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <130247.28816.qm@web53002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Maybe he'll catch an Earth cold virus. It worked in War of the Worlds! Or maybe we should just bow down to our master now and beat the rush. We will be spared! 
   
  Alex Hogan

Geoff Bannister <gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
          --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:

Tonks:

> > I am tired of all of these companies buying each other out. It 
> > won't be long and Gates will own it all.

Mike:
> Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once:
> "We are Microsoft. Resisttance is Futile. You will be Assimilated."

Geoff:
Ah but even the Borg can be stopped......

I shall retire to the woods with my trusty Mac Mini and join in with 
guerilla attacks on Microsoft convoys passing along the road.

We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the 
keyboards etc.

Aux armes, mes amis......



                         

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb 10 16:43:07 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 10 Feb 2008 16:43:07 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/10/2008, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1202661787.12.18736.m49@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 10, 2008
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



All Rights Reserved
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From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb 10 18:40:34 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 10 Feb 2008 18:40:34 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/10/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1202668834.8.35434.m53@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 10, 2008
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2008 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms of Service:
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From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 03:21:53 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:21:53 -0000
Subject: Rowling Interview from Spanish magazine
Message-ID: <foof0h+d3un@eGroups.com>

This is apparently a translation from an interview in a Spanish 
magazine. Just came across it from another Yahoo group.

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/entire-spanish-j-k-
rowling-interview-54113/

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 03:24:03 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:24:03 -0000
Subject: Rowling Interview from Spanish magazine
In-Reply-To: <foof0h+d3un@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foof4j+avds@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> This is apparently a translation from an interview in a Spanish 
> magazine. Just came across it from another Yahoo group.
> 
> http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/entire-spanish-j-k-
> rowling-interview-54113/
> 
> Tonks_op
>

Tonks again:
You will have to cut and paste this I guess. The link above doesn't 
pick up the last line and therefor doesn't take you to the correct page.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 07:41:54 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:41:54 -0000
Subject: Rowling Interview from Spanish magazine
In-Reply-To: <foof4j+avds@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foou82+a528@eGroups.com>

--- "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Tonks" <tonks_op@> wrote:
> >
> > This is apparently a translation from an interview in a 
> > Spanish  magazine. Just came across it from another Yahoo
> > group.
> > 
> > ..
> > Tonks_op
> >
> 
> Tonks again:
> You will have to cut and paste this I guess. The link above 
> doesn't pick up the last line and therefor doesn't take you 
> to the correct page.
>

bboyminn:

Let me see if I can post a working version of the link.

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/entire-spanish-j-k-rowling-interview-54113/

That was one amazing interview, probably one of the best
she has ever done. All down to the fact that someone with
a brain was actually interviewing her. Too many reporters
go for the cheap and easy sound-bite and never seek any
substance.

Again, one very amazing interview.

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 08:10:26 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:10:26 -0000
Subject: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
Message-ID: <foovti+7gig@eGroups.com>

Here is a link to a Google Earth Photograph of Grimmauld
Square in London. I posted it in the Photo section of the
main group, but don't think it would be allowed for 
discussion there.

Anyway, here it is. 

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/photos/view/5f1c?b=55

This is within walking distance of King's Cross Station.

Steve/bboyminn

Actually, it is Lons Square just off Liverpool Road in Islington
in North Central London. 




From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Feb 11 08:42:31 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:42:31 -0000
Subject: Rowling Interview from Spanish magazine
In-Reply-To: <foou82+a528@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fop1pn+df89@eGroups.com>


The whole interview is on the leaky cauldron site




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 21:29:24 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:29:24 -0000
Subject: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
In-Reply-To: <foovti+7gig@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foqenk+2quk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Here is a link to a Google Earth Photograph of Grimmauld
> Square in London. I posted it in the Photo section of the
> main group, but don't think it would be allowed for 
> discussion there.
> 
> Anyway, here it is. 
> 
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/photos/view/5f1c?
b=55
> 
> This is within walking distance of King's Cross Station.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
> 
> Actually, it is Lons Square just off Liverpool Road in Islington
> in North Central London.
>

bdclark0423:
I'm curious how this speculation was made..... only because in my 
mind, for some reason Grimmauld Square was a semi-circular row of 
townhouses, a little off the beaten trail of some train tracks (I 
guess the association with King's Cross?) but, i was totally 
disappointed in how OOTF Movie doesn't portray anything I had 
imagined from the outside, wasn't this a decrepit  and almost 
abandoned neighborhood?  Instead it looks like a row of houses you'd 
see anywhere (I guess that was the point in the film, but that 
wasn't why this location was chosen by the OOTF)
bdclark0423




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 23:02:00 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:02:00 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
In-Reply-To: <foqenk+2quk@eGroups.com>
References: <foqenk+2quk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47B0D3E8.8050406@yahoo.com>

So it's an actual place? I thought JKR was just making a linguistic joke 
("Grim Old Place").

CJ




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Feb 11 23:15:06 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:15:06 -0000
Subject: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
In-Reply-To: <foovti+7gig@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foqktq+c74a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Here is a link to a Google Earth Photograph of Grimmauld
> Square in London. I posted it in the Photo section of the
> main group, but don't think it would be allowed for 
> discussion there.
> 
> Anyway, here it is. 
> 
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/photos/view/5f1c?b=55
> 
> This is within walking distance of King's Cross Station.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
> 
> Actually, it is Lons Square just off Liverpool Road in Islington
> in North Central London.

Geoff:
I can't find a Lons Square listed in my London ABC or on the 
map off Liverpool Road - I think you might mean Lonsdale 
Square....

I'm not quite sure why you chose this specific square as a 
speculative site for Grimmauld Place. There is also Cloudesley 
Square, just south of yours which has a very similar layout and, 
personally, I've always tended to argue for one of the various 
squares around the Mornington Crescent area, which are also 
within walking distance of Euston, St.Pancras and Kings Cross 
railway stations and would fit the required parameters just as well.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Feb 11 23:16:41 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:16:41 -0000
Subject: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
In-Reply-To: <47B0D3E8.8050406@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <foql0p+qm79@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Lee Kaiwen <leekaiwen at ...> wrote:
>
> So it's an actual place? I thought JKR was just making a linguistic joke 
> ("Grim Old Place").
> 
> CJ

Geoff:
She was.





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 12 01:15:04 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:15:04 -0000
Subject: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
In-Reply-To: <foqktq+c74a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foqruo+gbd9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> >
> > Here is a link to a Google Earth Photograph of Grimmauld
> > Square in London. I posted it in the Photo section of the
> > main group, but don't think it would be allowed for 
> > discussion there.
> > 
> > Anyway, here it is. 
> > 
> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/photos/view/5f1c?b=55
> > 
> > This is within walking distance of King's Cross Station.
> > 
> > Steve/bboyminn
> > 
> > Actually, it is Lons Square just off Liverpool Road in 
> > Islington in North Central London.
> 
> Geoff:
> I can't find a Lons Square listed in my London ABC or on the 
> map off Liverpool Road - I think you might mean Lonsdale 
> Square....
> 
> I'm not quite sure why you chose this specific square as a 
> speculative site for Grimmauld Place. There is also Cloudesley 
> Square, just south of yours which has a very similar layout and, 
> personally, I've always tended to argue for one of the various 
> squares around the Mornington Crescent area, which are also 
> within walking distance of Euston, St.Pancras and Kings Cross 
> railway stations and would fit the required parameters just as
> well.
>

bboyminn:

Right, Lonsdale...it's abbreviated on my map. 

Initially, I took a map of London and drew a circle of about
a 1 mile radius. I suspect it took 20 minutes to walk from
Grimmauld Square to King's Cross Station. Within that circle
I looked for anything that could pass as Grimmauld Square.

See Map -

"Where in the World is Grimmauld Place?"
http://bluemoonmarket.homestead.com/files/hogwarts/12grim.jpg

My conditions were that -

- it couldn't be on a main road or a through street. It
had to be somewhat secluded.
- it has to be reasonably small. 
- the houses must surround a public square. Some squares are
more like a closed off courtyards surrounded by houses. 

For those who prefer the semi-circle 'square', just ever
so slightly south and west of this square is Richmond Crest.

Likely this neighborhood is too ritzy, but I had to find
a place within that circle, within about a 20 minute walking
distance. 

To find the area we are talking about, go straight east from
Regents Park until you come to King's Cross Station, then
go north and east to Islington. Once you find Islington,
look for Thornhill Square which is easy to spot because it
looks like an oval race track, though slightly misshapen.

Just below Thornhill Square and to the right is Richmond
Crest or Crescent, just to the right of that and up slightly
is Lons Sq (Lonsdale Square). North of that you will find
Barnbury Square. Within the 1 mile radius circle these
struck me at the best places given my set of parameters. 

Though again, not being in London, I may have picked a
much fancier neighborhood than is logically correct. But,
the geography of the story limits the choices. (see Map)

Morning Crescent is just south of Camden Town and Northwest
of Euston station. 

Cloudesley Square is possible, but it has a huge building
of some type taking up most of the center of the square and
that doesn't quite seem consistent with the story. 
Cloudesley Square is straight south of and connected by
road to Lonsdale Square.

Personally, I always picture Grimmauld Square as vaguely
similar to a cul-de-sac, meaning that it was a square of 
houses with a small park-like area in the middle, and only
ONE entrances to the square. But I couldn't find anything
that exactly fit my vision. 

If you don't have Google Earth, it is a godsend when you
need to explore places that are very remote from you. I
typed in Geof's suggestion of Morning Crescent, and the 
map took me right to it. 

Your suggestion of Mornington Crescent, London, NW1 is near
Regents Park which would make it about a 5 or 10 minute walk
to the station. That seems too close based on my 
interpretation of how long it took in the book. 

Realistically, the place doesn't exist, but within the 
available geography, I think Lonsdale Square fits the
best.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 12 15:30:00 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:30:00 -0000
Subject: Fanfiction again
Message-ID: <fose1o+hrd5@eGroups.com>

So I love the books by Guy Gavriel Kay. I mean, I only read three 
books of his and till few days ago it was only two, but I loved them 
all dearly so far. I think he is amazing writer.

So I thought I would look for fanfiction in his universes. Mmmmm, 
nothing whatsoever on ff.net as far as I could see and only handful 
of stories, literally less than ten ( that is considering that they 
are all set in different books of his) on another site.

Now maybe there are other sites where there is plenty of stories set 
in his book universes, I cannot say, of course. Nevertheless I 
figured something is up, I know Kay is a very popular writer, cannot 
be that people just do not want to write fanfic about his books.

So I went to his authorized website and I am sure you guessed it. His 
stance on fanfiction is NO because of copyright problems it can 
create for him. Now of course that relates to publishing for profit, 
but he would not give express permission even for non profit 
publishing.

I mean I am sure he knows he cannot control if somebody wants to pub 
lish story not for profit on the internet and as I said above I found 
few stories on one site, but LOOK the writer's negative attitude 
about fanfiction seems to make HUGE difference, doesn't it?

Can we even calculate how many stories are written in HP universe? 
Hundreds of thousands on ff.net only? Say there are twenty or even 
thirty stories about Kay books elsewhere, still not comparable, right?


What I am trying to say is that I think JKR is being very generous 
with fanfic, much more than she could be.

JMO,

Alla




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 12 20:52:22 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:52:22 -0000
Subject: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London
In-Reply-To: <foqruo+gbd9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fot0u6+j3qp@eGroups.com>

> Realistically, the place doesn't exist, but within the 
> available geography, I think Lonsdale Square fits the
> best.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
>

bdclark0423:
Perhaps, it does exist:  we just don't know the Secret of its Keeper 
(in order to see through the Fidelus Charm)....

anyway, good job on your homework.  it's pretty compelleing argument :)

bdclark0423




From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 12 16:14:03 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:14:03 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
Message-ID: <fosgkb+lhmf@eGroups.com>


This made me smile a lot. Hope it does the same for you

Jayne


A man asked his wife what she'd like for her birthday.
'I'd love to be eight again' she replied.

On the morning of her birthday, he arose early and made her a bowl of 
Coco Pops and jammy toasties!
 
He took her to Alton Towers and put her on every ride in the park:
* The Death Slide
* The Wall of Fear
* The Screaming Monster Roller Coaster

Five hours later she staggered out of the theme park. 
  
Her head was reeling and her stomach felt upside down. Right away 
they went to a McDonalds where her loving husband ordered her a Happy 
Meal with extra fries and a refreshing chocolate milkshake.

Then it was off to the movies: the latest Kiddies three hour epic 
cartoon, a hot dog, popcorn, all the Coke she could drink, her 
favourite lolly and M&Ms!  

 

What a fabulous adventure!

Finally she wobbled home with her husband and collapsed onto the bed 
exhausted. He leaned over his precious wife with a big smile and 
lovingly asked 'Well dear, what was it like being eight again?'

Her eyes slowly opened and her expression changed to one of total 
realisation...'I meant my dress size, you twat !!!'

The moral of this story: Even when a man is listening, he's still 
gonna get it wrong.........

 






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Feb 12 22:13:31 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:13:31 -0000
Subject: 12 Grimmauld Place (was Re: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London)
In-Reply-To: <foqruo+gbd9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fot5mb+v6n1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
> <gbannister10@> wrote:
> >
> > ---  "Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Here is a link to a Google Earth Photograph of Grimmauld
> > > Square in London. I posted it in the Photo section of the
> > > main group, but don't think it would be allowed for 
> > > discussion there.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, here it is. 
> > > 
> > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/photos/view/5f1c?b=55
> > > 
> > > This is within walking distance of King's Cross Station.
> > > 
> > > Steve/bboyminn
> > > 
> > > Actually, it is Lons Square just off Liverpool Road in 
> > > Islington in North Central London.
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > I can't find a Lons Square listed in my London ABC or on the 
> > map off Liverpool Road - I think you might mean Lonsdale 
> > Square....
> > 
> > I'm not quite sure why you chose this specific square as a 
> > speculative site for Grimmauld Place. There is also Cloudesley 
> > Square, just south of yours which has a very similar layout and, 
> > personally, I've always tended to argue for one of the various 
> > squares around the Mornington Crescent area, which are also 
> > within walking distance of Euston, St.Pancras and Kings Cross 
> > railway stations and would fit the required parameters just as
> > well.
> >
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Right, Lonsdale...it's abbreviated on my map. 
> 
> Initially, I took a map of London and drew a circle of about
> a 1 mile radius. I suspect it took 20 minutes to walk from
> Grimmauld Square to King's Cross Station. Within that circle
> I looked for anything that could pass as Grimmauld Square.

<snip>

> My conditions were that -
> 
> - it couldn't be on a main road or a through street. It
> had to be somewhat secluded.
> - it has to be reasonably small. 
> - the houses must surround a public square. Some squares are
> more like a closed off courtyards surrounded by houses. 

<snip>

> Morning Crescent is just south of Camden Town and Northwest
> of Euston station. 
> 
> Cloudesley Square is possible, but it has a huge building
> of some type taking up most of the center of the square and
> that doesn't quite seem consistent with the story. 
> Cloudesley Square is straight south of and connected by
> road to Lonsdale Square.
> 
> Personally, I always picture Grimmauld Square as vaguely
> similar to a cul-de-sac, meaning that it was a square of 
> houses with a small park-like area in the middle, and only
> ONE entrances to the square. But I couldn't find anything
> that exactly fit my vision. 

<snip>

> Your suggestion of Mornington Crescent, London, NW1 is near
> Regents Park which would make it about a 5 or 10 minute walk
> to the station. That seems too close based on my 
> interpretation of how long it took in the book. 
> 
> Realistically, the place doesn't exist, but within the 
> available geography, I think Lonsdale Square fits the
> best.

Geoff:
Fisrt, this topic has been discussed quite exhaustively on 
Main at least three times, so it might be worthwhile reading 
up these threads just to get up to speed.

The oldest thread I believe is "Tube clues to the whereabouts 
of Grimmauld Place" which started at post 83992 on 02/11/2003.

Then there was "New Maps added to 'Speculative Geography' 
LINKS" which Steve, in a different incarnation as asian_lovr2 
started and I picked up on the GP clues in particular at message 
108130 on 29/07/2004.

And the third was "Way OT: 12 Grimmauld Place Appearance" 
which started on 25/10/2005 at post 142096 - although this 
latter theme was more about what sort of house we were
dealing with....

Moving on, just for completeness, the centre of Cloudesley 
Square is occupied by a church. If GP conforms to the usual 
pattern of a London square, it isn't a cul-de-sac. It is likely 
to have a central section of some description with the road 
going round it with three or four entry points.

May I also point out that I have always referred to the 
Mornington Crescent AREA, not just the road itself. Regent's 
Park is a very large park and this area is a little way off on 
the north-east corner.

If I might refer to canon:
'Mr.Weasley kept his hand inside his jacket as they walked. 
Harry knew it was clenched around his wand. The run-down 
streets were almost deserted but when they arrived at the 
miserable little underground station they found it already 
full of early-morning commuters....

....Mr.Weasley kept anxiously checking and re-checking the 
Underground Map above the windows.
"Four more stops, Harry.... Three stops left now....  Two 
stops to go, Harry...."'
(OOTP "The Ministry of Magic" pp.114/15 UK edition)

and again:
'But the great black dog gave a joyful bark and gambolled 
around them, snapping at pigeons and chasing its own tail. 
Harry couldn't help laughing. Sirius had been trapped inside 
for a very long time. Mrs. Weasley pursed her lips in an 
almost Aunt Petunia-ish way.

It took them twenty minutes to reach Kings Cross on foot 
and nothing more eventful happened during that time than 
Sirius scaring a couple of cats for Harry's entertainment.'
(OOTP "Luna Lovegood" p.165 UK edition)

Why have I quoted these two extracts? First, because I 
suggested in one of the threads which I mentioned above 
that I have a theory that the Ministry of Magic  is situated 
in central London in the area where most of the Muggle 
ministry buildings are - in the area around Whitehall.

Mr. Weasley's comments  in the section above suggest that 
he began counting after the train had started. From Mornington 
Crescent - which was at one point in time a rather grotty station 
only open at rush-hours - six or seven stations on the Northern 
Line would bring you to either Charing Cross or Embankment 
stations, both well-placed for Whitehall.

The area from Mornington Crescent running southwards towards 
either Euston or Kings Cross railway stations is through a warren 
of run-down little streets between Eversholt Street and Pancras 
Road often with railway overbridges because of the network of 
railway lines here. They would be quiet and fairly empty on the 
way to go to the Hogwarts Express and would allow Sirius the 
freedom to run around.

>From the Lonsdale Square location, the nearest Tube station is 
Highbury & Islington to the north on the Victoria line which 
would take them towards Victoria and would then involve a 
long walk to where I think the MoM building might be - 
unless they changed lines which canon doesn't suggest. 
Alternatively, they could walk south to Angel station on the 
Northern but they would have to go in the wrong direction to 
Kings Cross for a southbound train to the central area, again 
not suggested in canon. Also, on the day they walked to Kings 
Cross, it would be difficult to get through using side streets 
quiet enough for Sirius to fool around in; they would most 
probably finish up walking down at least part of Pentonville 
Road from the Angel direction which is very busy and not 
particularly pleasant to walk along in the rush-hour.

Finally, to draw on personal experience. I have been for many 
years a rail enthusiast and, when I was younger, I frequently 
travelled north out of Euston and again when my eldest son 
was living in north-west London in the early 2000s. As you 
leave Euston, there are very obviously many roads on the 
east side of the line just outside the station which fit the 
description of Grimmauld Place; scruffy, three or four storey 
terrace houses which had once been genteel residences now 
reduced to apartments or bed-sits and not cared for.

I think it was Steve who remarked at one point that we can 
only speculate on the position of Grimmauld Place. I base 
my theories on having lived and travelled widely within 
London over a 45 year period prior to my moving to the 
West Country some years ago. We may all be totally wrong 
but analysing the clues and drawing our own conclusions 
and sharing them is great fun.... I hope!
:-)





From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 05:06:20 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (C John Edward Culver)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 05:06:20 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <fosgkb+lhmf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fottsc+fh66@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jayne" <jaynesmith62 at ...> wrote:

> This made me smile a lot. Hope it does the same for you

Yes, it did, even though I'm a man.

However, in defense of my own sex:

> The moral of this story: Even when a man is listening, he's still 
> gonna get it wrong.........

I think the moral of the story is men would get it right more if women
said what they meant:

> 'I'd love to be eight again' she replied.

I contend the man DID get it right. The woman should have said "AN eight".

I've only been married five years, but I learned very quickly never to
respond to the first sentence out of my wife's mouth; it rarely has
any discernible connection to what she's really thinking.

CJ

CJ




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 13 07:20:18 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:20:18 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <fosgkb+lhmf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fou5ni+e03g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jayne" <jaynesmith62 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> This made me smile a lot. Hope it does the same for you
> 
> Jayne
> 
> 
Gosh, sorry.no...didn't make me smile at all..do I feel like a 
spoilsport sometimes! But I don't appreciate characterizations of men 
or women as being stupid, or negative...

I don't buy into this idea that men and women are intrinsically 
different (other than a few obvious things), or are from different 
planets. I don't agree, for example, that men are by nature violent. 
I suggest that men and women make choices to be violent.

Most of the differences between men and women are (in my humble 
opinion) learned, and can be unlearned.

Prejudice makes me uncomfortable.

So, let the flames begin....

Susan




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 09:31:56 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:31:56 -0000
Subject: 12 Grimmauld Place (was Re: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London)
In-Reply-To: <fot5mb+v6n1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foudec+17mf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> 
> Geoff:
> ...
> 
> I think it was Steve who remarked at one point that we can 
> only speculate on the position of Grimmauld Place. I base 
> my theories on having lived and traveled widely within 
> London over a 45 year period prior to my moving to the 
> West Country some years ago. We may all be totally wrong 
> but analysing the clues and drawing our own conclusions 
> and sharing them is great fun.... I hope!
> :-)
>


bboyminn:

Well I certainly bow to your superior experience. Again, I'm
using paper maps and Google Earth. Initially, I shot down 
your Mornington idea because it seemed too close to King's
Cross, but upon looking at my maps again, it is right on the 
edge of my 1 mile circle just like Islington and Barnsbury. 
So, the walking time would be the same.

Now any speculation is going to be fraught with compromises.
Your area is a little more run down than mine, but I don't 
actually see any park-like squares in the area you suggest
that seem to fit the pattern. Again, I'm stuck with Google
Earth and paper maps. I did see some square, but the 
building didn't quite seem right. Again, I could only see
the roofs. 

I do agree with your general suggestion for how Grimmauld
Square looks. Which visually is much like Lonsdale Square. 
The flaw in my area is that it does seem somewhat ritzy.
There are a few mansions in that neighborhood, or appear
to be mansions when view from the roof. But still on 
Google Earth there is a picture of the intersection at the
south of Lonsdale Square and the building looks about right.

There are also some photos of nearby Pubs, and again they
look like they could be about right. Though, let's 
remember the books took place 10 year ago, and the photos
I saw are recent. 

I have speculated that the Square can't be on a busy street,
and that it must be somewhat isolated. 

Of all the places I've looked, Lonsdale Square fits best,
but then, again, I'm only looking at the roof, and can't 
take into consideration things like subway stops.

I do agree with you assessment of the likely location of 
the Ministry, though I think it is slightly off the main
area of Whitehall, but that still seems the right 
neighborhood. 

I really wish I could go to London and hire a driver to take
me around so I could explore all these places.

Still, all in all, it's fun to speculate.

Steve/bboyminn




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 09:57:40 2008
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:57:40 -0000
Subject: 12 Grimmauld Place (was Re: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London)
In-Reply-To: <fot5mb+v6n1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foueuk+7nm0@eGroups.com>

> > bboyminn (heavily snipped):

> > Grimmauld Square.

> Geoff (also heavily snipped):

> Grimmauld Place

Goddlefrood:

See, the problem with speculting about any Square in London is 
that what we are looking for is a Place. One might as well say 
that Gloucester Place could be equated to Grimmauld Place.

Personally I picture the Royal Crescent in Bath when I read the 
books, and yes, it's a fair old walk from Bath to King's Cross.

There are several pictures of said Crescent available on the net. 
Street names mean something, a Place is different from a Square, 
is dfferent from an Avenue, is different from a Crescent ...




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 13 12:06:15 2008
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:06:15 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <fottsc+fh66@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <foumfn+5vr9@eGroups.com>

Jane wrote:

> This made me smile a lot. Hope it does the same for you

Mary Ann:

Thanks, it gave me a good giggle.

CJ wrote:

> I contend the man DID get it right. The woman should have said "AN 
eight".

Yes, I agree.

CJ again:

> I've only been married five years, but I learned very quickly never to
> respond to the first sentence out of my wife's mouth; it rarely has
> any discernible connection to what she's really thinking.

Mary Ann:

*vbg*  In defense of *my* gender, I've been married for 12 years and am 
still waiting for the day when my husband stops expecting *me* to mind-
read.  I've improved over the years but I still can't always 
extrapolate the meaning of a rambling, complex thought from two 
seemingly unrelated words and an eyebrow gesture. :D

Mary Ann, a firm believer in the healing power of laughter and not 
taking life too seriously




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Feb 13 16:13:00 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:13:00 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <foumfn+5vr9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001801c86e5b$4e327cb0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Mary Ann:
| 
| *vbg*  In defense of *my* gender, I've been married for 12 
| years and am 
| still waiting for the day when my husband stops expecting 
| *me* to mind-
| read.  I've improved over the years but I still can't always 
| extrapolate the meaning of a rambling, complex thought from two 
| seemingly unrelated words and an eyebrow gesture. :D

[Lee]:
<ROTFL!>
Well, I've been married 22 years and still face that very same
dilemma...and, of course, being blind, I don't have the eye-brow thing as a
clue, so I have to discern intonation, length of pauses, and other even more
subtle clues.  But I, too, am improving. <VBG>

Here's to laughter, love, and all that is uplifting in an often "downer"
world.  Stay on the bright side!

Cheers and smiles,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 17:09:54 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:09:54 -0000
Subject: 12 Grimmauld Place (was Re: Photograph of Grimmauld Square, London)
In-Reply-To: <foueuk+7nm0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fov892+gueu@eGroups.com>

> Goddlefrood:
<snip>
> what we are looking for is a Place. 

<snip>

> There are several pictures of said Crescent available on the net. 
> Street names mean something, a Place is different from a Square, 
> is dfferent from an Avenue, is different from a Crescent ...
<snip>

bdclark0423:
Great point!  JKR has the house as 12 Grimmauld Place, so I went to 
wikipedie to look at street naming policies and found that any type 
of culs-de-sac can be named: Close, Court, Place, Cove....BUT the 
following are named by the shape:  Circle, Crescent, Square, Loop.

So while one can be the same or compare to the other, the vice versa 
may not be true.

So there, I'm sticking to my idea of the semi-circle...only reason 
why I think this, is because any image of London in my mind comes 
from Oliver! the musical....and please, no comments on this.... :)

bdclark0423





From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 13 17:52:13 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:52:13 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <001801c86e5b$4e327cb0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fovaod+92d6@eGroups.com>

> [Lee]:
>
> <ROTFL!>
> Well, I've been married 22 years and still face that very same
dilemma...and, of course, being blind, I don't have the eye-brow 
thing as a clue, so I have to discern intonation, length of pauses, 
and other even more subtle clues.  But I, too, am improving. <VBG>
 
Here's to laughter, love, and all that is uplifting in an 
often "downer" world.  Stay on the bright side!
 
Cheers and smiles,

Lee :-)

Tiffany:

I've had mixed results with males & subtle hints, some are good at 
reading body language & can pick up on subtle hints, then there's 
some that almost need me to tell what the hint itself is before they 
get the idea.




From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 21:08:15 2008
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ft Wayne, IND = NEWS
Message-ID: <200802132108.m1DL8FT1018205@upsa-web129.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.bv87ujjr&x=0&h=1&y=cpbpn
If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. Once you've 
signed in, you'll be able to view this album whenever you want 
and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

Enjoy!
Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're
an existing member you'll be asked to sign in. If not, you can 
join the Gallery for free.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/Register.jsp

Questions? Visit http://help.kodakgallery.com.




------------------------------------------------------------
The KODAK Gallery Customer Service Team
Phone: 800-360-9098 / 512-651-9770 Outside of the US and Canada

------------------------------------------------------------




If you cannot see the links above, copy and paste the
following URL directly into your browser:
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.bv87ujjr&x=0&h=1&y=cpbpn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 21:08:44 2008
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ft Wayne, IND = NEWS
Message-ID: <200802132108.m1DL8ikJ018309@upsa-web129.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


You're invited to view these photos online at KODAK Gallery!
Just click on View Photos to get started.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.8605c3g7&x=0&h=1&y=dbqa3
If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or
if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. Once you've 
signed in, you'll be able to view this album whenever you want 
and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

Enjoy!
Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're
an existing member you'll be asked to sign in. If not, you can 
join the Gallery for free.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/Register.jsp

Questions? Visit http://help.kodakgallery.com.




------------------------------------------------------------
The KODAK Gallery Customer Service Team
Phone: 800-360-9098 / 512-651-9770 Outside of the US and Canada

------------------------------------------------------------




If you cannot see the links above, copy and paste the
following URL directly into your browser:
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=brptja83.8605c3g7&x=0&h=1&y=dbqa3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 21:13:53 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:13:53 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <foumfn+5vr9@eGroups.com>
References: <foumfn+5vr9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47B35D91.80704@yahoo.com>

> Mary Ann:
> 
> *vbg* In defense of *my* gender, I've been married for 12 years and am
> still waiting for the day when my husband stops expecting *me* to mind-
> read.


To be honest, I think my wife sometimes feels the same way about me. 
Not, however, because I drop hints or rely on subtle bodily signals, but 
simply because my replies to questions general tend toward minimalist. 
She complains our conversations often run along these lines:

Her: What're you reading?
Me: A book.
Her: What kind of book?
Me: An English book.
Her: What *kind* of English book?
Me: A fantasy novel.
...

I'm not really *that* bad, but I can't say the above bears no 
resemblance to reality :-)

In my defense, however, my wife has also been known on occasion to lose 
patience in the middle of my longer answers.

Her: What're you reading.
Me: Well, it's a fantasy novel involving a people in a mythical land 
resembling Scandinavia whose existence is threatened by the presence of 
monstrous creatures--
Her <eyes glazing over>: Ah, a fantasy novel. I see. I'm going shopping 
now...

CJ




From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 13 23:30:41 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:30:41 -0000
Subject: Rowling Interview from Spanish magazine
In-Reply-To: <foof0h+d3un@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fovuj1+66bi@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> This is apparently a translation from an interview in a Spanish 
> magazine. Just came across it from another Yahoo group.
> 
> http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/entire-spanish-j-k-
> rowling-interview-54113/
> 
> Tonks_op
>

bdclark0423:
Thanks, Tonks.  Even though this may have been posted on another 
site, I am not a member there....so I just wanted to say that by the 
time I finished this article, I was literally in tears.  I, myself,  
have been diagnosed with a fatal disease, so I totally understand 
the issue of having to face death, yet still having to follow one's 
ideals.  

This article only supports my long standing impression of JKR's 
character: she never meant to do this to seek money, fame, fortune, 
or status she now finds herself in.  She had to conquer her own 
villians...it only makes me appreciate her that much more :)

bdclark0423




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 16:39:47 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:39:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
Message-ID: <19061.60956.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

*scurries about, frantically hanging streamers with
bandaged fingers*

I has missed a birthday! *shuffles feet and blushes*

I missed it by lots, too! 

Last Sunday's birthday honouree was Geoff. Belated
birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk

Let's see, there's lots of nibblies and beverages on
the table. A towering cake over to the side (make sure
to leave lots for Geoff!). What else to do we need? 

I hope your day was magical, filled with family, fun
and good times.

Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!

*turns up the music, throws confetti and backs quietly
out of the room*

Sheryll the forgetful Birthday Elf *sigh*

Join the fun at Convention Alley 2008



      Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 16:48:20 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:48:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Brandon!
Message-ID: <506603.41960.qm@web63403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

*surveys the freshly decorated room and adds just a
few more balloons*

There, I really can't do more or else there won't be
room to party. :)

Today's birthday honouree is Brandon. Birthday owls
can be sent care of this list or directly to:
bak42 at comcast.net

*pops out briefly and returns with another very tall
cake*

If that's not enough food, there's more on hand. I've
spelled the tables to refill as necessary. :)

I hope your day is magical and brings everything you
wished for.

Happy Birthday, Brandon!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

Join the fun at Convention Alley 2008



      Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 19:13:36 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:13:36 -0000
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <19061.60956.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fp23t0+37to@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at ...> 
wrote:
>
> *scurries about, frantically hanging streamers with
> bandaged fingers*
> 
> I has missed a birthday! *shuffles feet and blushes*
> 
> I missed it by lots, too! 
> 
> Last Sunday's birthday honouree was Geoff. Belated
> birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
> directly to: gbannister10 at ...
> 
> Let's see, there's lots of nibblies and beverages on
> the table. A towering cake over to the side (make sure
> to leave lots for Geoff!). What else to do we need? 
> 
> I hope your day was magical, filled with family, fun
> and good times.
> 
> Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
> 
> *turns up the music, throws confetti and backs quietly
> out of the room*
> 
> Sheryll the forgetful Birthday Elf *sigh*
> 
> Join the fun at Convention Alley 2008



Alla:

Geoff, I hope you had the most wonderful day ever. I told you that 
many times, but I just like and respect you so much. If you are the 
same in RL as your online persona, I would be truly honored to call 
myself your friend :-)


You never lose your temper, and you just KNOW so many things. I 
always like the person who knows a lot ( unrelated to Potter I mean), 
heheh.


Happy Birthday :)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 14 19:46:38 2008
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:46:38 -0000
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <19061.60956.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fp25qu+pcqe@eGroups.com>

Happy belated birthday, Geoff!  I hope you had a fantastic day.

Mary Ann, raising a butterbeer to Geoff and hiding the iron from 
Sheryll ;)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Feb 14 21:50:37 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:50:37 -0000
Subject: Thank you... thank you.
Message-ID: <fp2d3d+pivl@eGroups.com>

To those who have remembered my birthday both 
here and in emails, thank you.

I tried not to make a lot of this birthay. Unlike my 
wife, who had a birthday in January which was special 
in that it ended in a "0" and, in UK terms, evtitled her 
to a bus pass, free eye tests and free medicine prescriptions, 
mine was small beer - I passed those landmarks a couple 
of years or so back. Let's just say that my birthday this 
year falls in the 17-times table. One for the Maths experts 
among you.

Yes, it was a good day. It was a beautiful day weather-wise. 
We have just had an uncommon  run of about five days 
of blue skiesand temperatures around 12-13 C, whereas 
the norm for mid-February is usually about 7-8 C.

Apart from my usual two walks with the dogs totalling 
about 5 miles, my eldest son and his wife came over for 
two nights. they live away to the east, about 10 miles on 
the London side of Oxford. We went out for Sunday roast 
lunch at a local pub and they were with us for the afternoon 
walk before heading home on the Sunday evening. Quiet 
but good. If you've never had a meal in the homeliness of 
an English village pub, you ain't lived!
:-)

If you would like a taste of where we walked on Sunday - 
and also on Saturday, try:

www.geoffbannister.com/images/v196_heddons_mouth_1.jpg
(for Saturday)

and 
www.geoffbannister.com/images/v116_porlock_vale.jpg
(for Sunday - our house is actually in this view)

Thank yo ahgain for your good wishes.

and - Sheryll - keep away from the oven door!




From gwharrison53 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 23:31:42 2008
From: gwharrison53 at yahoo.com (gwharrison53 at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Happy Valentine's Day !
Message-ID: <200802142331.m1ENVlrj024460@upsa-web119.ofoto.com>

	 

You're invited to view my online photos at the Gallery. Enjoy!


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if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. Once you've 
signed in, you'll be able to view this album whenever you want 
and order Kodak prints of your favorite photos.

Enjoy!
Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're
an existing member you'll be asked to sign in. If not, you can 
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http://www.kodakgallery.com/Register.jsp

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 15 00:47:45 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:47:45 -0000
Subject: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <770735.61355.qm@web60719.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fp2nfh+9b03@eGroups.com>

danielle dassero wrote:
>
> I don't think I've read blubber, I read are there god in 7th grade
as part of english and the guys i walked home with  used to the i must
i must i must increase my bust exercise and just cracked me up.

Carol responds:
My apologies for the belated response, but I haven't had time to post
lately.

At any rate, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Is that
exercise depicted in "Are You there, God? It's Me, Margaret"? If so, I
must read that book because one of the more humiliating experiences of
my adolescence was Girls" PE. We wore horrible white uniforms (a
blouse and shorts) that had to be *ironed.* (Surely, the manufacturers
could have made them permanent press? It *had* been invented, even in
those days.

So imagine a tall, skinny blonde girl with glasses who's just learning
to shave her legs and sometimes has razor burn because she hasn't
quite got the hang of it yet having to hold out her arms, bent at the
elbow like chicken wings at shoulder height, and bring them to gether
and apart, all the time chanting along with twenty-four other
embarrassed girls, "We must! We must! We must develop our bust!" Not
only did we know there were boys watching us out the window of some
classroom, distracted from Algebra or Biology or whatever they were
supposed to be studying and whispering about us to each other, but I
hated the bad grammar. If we *must* recite ths stupid rhyme (and what
was the teacher *thinking* to make us do it?), at least "busts" should
be plural (and the heck with the rhyme) since we didn't share a
collective bust!

Carol, who had to recite that wretched rhyme in eighth, ninth, and
tenth grades and is now wondering why she can't remember doing it in
eleventh or twelfth (no PE in those years?)





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 15 03:09:17 2008
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:09:17 -0000
Subject: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <fp2nfh+9b03@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp2vot+70j3@eGroups.com>

 
> Carol wrote:
>[O]ne of the more humiliating experiences of
> my adolescence was Girls" PE. We wore horrible white uniforms (a
> blouse and shorts) that had to be *ironed.*

Annemehr:
Ugh!  What is it about uniform-designers?  Still, I think I would 
have preferred yours to our Jr. High model: an ugly double-knit one-
piece thingy that zipped up the back.  And anyway, I never iron 
anything. :P


Carol:
> So imagine a tall, skinny blonde girl with glasses who's just 
learning
> to shave her legs and sometimes has razor burn because she hasn't
> quite got the hang of it yet having to hold out her arms, bent at 
the
> elbow like chicken wings at shoulder height, and bring them to 
gether
> and apart, all the time chanting along with twenty-four other
> embarrassed girls, "We must! We must! We must develop our bust!" 

Annemehr:
Oh, my!  I can only imagine that the powers-that-were believed the 
rhyme would be *motivational.*  Unless... do you recall if they 
exhibited any other sadistic tendencies?

But you remind me of the entire summer I spent wearing knee socks.  
My mother was apparently one of the legion of mothers who view leg-
shaving as something inherently sexual, and seemed to have pegged the 
appropriate age to begin for approximately a year after I needed to.  
And I am NOT blonde, unfortunately.

At least, I think that must have been her line of thought.  The only 
answer she would give me when I asked was "because you're too 
young."  Sheesh.  Anyway, I gave my girls razors as soon as they 
wanted them.  So far, they have avoided falling into debauchery, so I 
feel vindicated.

Annemehr,
thinking it would be funny if there were an analogous exercise for 
boys...





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 15 03:22:25 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:22:25 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fnle8l+qu1a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp30hh+mbpn@eGroups.com>

Alla:
> 
> I would hope not, even I who was extremely happy to learn of Snape's 
> demise have no desire to watch Nagini eating her tasty snack.
> 
> But how do you think they can make it easy enough on the eye? I mean
they may opt to not show it at all, but if they decide to show it, how
do you think they may depict it?
>
Carol responds (belatedly, sorry!):
A minor point: Nagini doesn't eat Snape; she leaves with Voldemort,
still in her bubble. It would be impossible for him to give Harry
those crucial memories if he'd been eaten (or AK'd, for that matter).
So I think she'll strike once, drawing enough bolld for him to bleed
to death (though the audience may think it's the venom that kills
him). It doesn't have to be graphic, just effective. And snape, as I
said, has to have that last interaction with Harry after Nagini leaves.

I can't imagine them not showing Snape's death scene, which is crucial
to the plot. (It provides Harry's cue to sacrifice himself rather than
trying to kill Voldemort. And we know that Harry gets his death scene!
also, the Pensieve scene afterwards is important as a means of tying
up certain plot points--and revealing puppetmaster Dumbledore.)

The only character in DH whom we know for sure is eaten by Nagini is
Charity Burbage, and that will surely be off-screen, just as it was
off-page in the book.

Now Bathilda!Nagini will be pretty scary/icky if they leave it in
(Harry is also bitten), but that's a bit differeent since the scare is
from her transformation rather than from the blood.

Carol, who, of course, is *not* happy that Snape died but is glad that
Harry finally understood and forgave him, better late than never




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 15 04:53:48 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:53:48 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fp30hh+mbpn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp35ss+dbr7@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> > 
> > I would hope not, even I who was extremely happy to learn of 
Snape's 
> > demise have no desire to watch Nagini eating her tasty snack.
> > 
> > But how do you think they can make it easy enough on the eye? I 
mean
> they may opt to not show it at all, but if they decide to show it, 
how
> do you think they may depict it?
> >
> Carol responds (belatedly, sorry!):
> A minor point: Nagini doesn't eat Snape; she leaves with Voldemort,
> still in her bubble. It would be impossible for him to give Harry
> those crucial memories if he'd been eaten (or AK'd, for that 
matter).


Alla:

Well, yes of course she does not eat his whole body. I did not even 
know that I had to say that, it is way obvious I think. I just like 
the expression after I read it somewhere. She tastes him, is that 
better?

Although actually come to think of it, we do not know if she eats 
him or not, because Snape's body is left in the Shack and for all I 
know she may have come back and eat him whole, although this is a 
total speculation and not in the books of course.


Carol:
> So I think she'll strike once, drawing enough bolld for him to 
bleed
> to death (though the audience may think it's the venom that kills
> him). It doesn't have to be graphic, just effective. 

Alla:

And that was my point, how to make it easy on the eyes, which I 
agree most likely will be shown, although if we think of the huge 
IMO amount of the important scenes that were omitted, I am not so 
sure that the picture of Nagini striking will be there necessarily 
IMO.


Carol:
And snape, as I
> said, has to have that last interaction with Harry after Nagini 
leaves.

Alla:

Sure, unless they decide to cut it out, but if they do not, I think 
it is totally Okay for example if Trio comes upon Snape already 
bleeding and then he gives the memories. Not that I care one way or 
another, I mean, I do in a sense that I am easily scared LOL, but I 
can close my eyes if I wish.


My question was how they can show it to make it easier for those who 
are easily scared and actually I think Pippin's answer is very 
possible. If they show it as a shadow, I will be very happy and vou 
la then Snape can have his last interaction with  Harry.

CArol:
> I can't imagine them not showing Snape's death scene, which is 
crucial
> to the plot. <SNIP>

Alla:

And you are most likely right, but I am not sure at all that bite 
will be shown in all its glory necessarily.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Feb 15 06:08:38 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:08:38 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <fp23t0+37to@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000001c86f99$350ea210$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

Late Happy Birthday and slightly late Happy Valentine's Day, Professor
Banister!

May your butterbeer always warm your heart.

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Feb 15 07:36:09 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:36:09 -0000
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <000001c86f99$350ea210$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fp3fd9+8hal@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> Late Happy Birthday and slightly late Happy Valentine's Day, Professor
> Banister!
> 
> May your butterbeer always warm your heart.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee :-)
> 
> Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
> I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
> Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at ... (or)
> I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at ...
> Walk beside me, and be my friend.

Geoff:
Thank you, Professor Storm.

Just a minor point. You have spelt my name 
incorrectly; there are two 'n's in it. I am a basket 
maker (no rude comments from group members 
please) and not a stair rail (no further rude 
comments from you lot about that one either...).
:-))





From jnferr at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 14:09:43 2008
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:09:43 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <fp2vot+70j3@eGroups.com>
References: <fp2nfh+9b03@eGroups.com> <fp2vot+70j3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40802150609m5c360f44y3fab8a4b101062f4@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Annemehr:
> Oh, my!  I can only imagine that the powers-that-were believed the
> rhyme would be *motivational.*  Unless... do you recall if they
> exhibited any other sadistic tendencies?
>
> But you remind me of the entire summer I spent wearing knee socks.
> My mother was apparently one of the legion of mothers who view leg-
> shaving as something inherently sexual, and seemed to have pegged the
> appropriate age to begin for approximately a year after I needed to.
> And I am NOT blonde, unfortunately.
>
> At least, I think that must have been her line of thought.  The only
> answer she would give me when I asked was "because you're too
> young."  Sheesh.  Anyway, I gave my girls razors as soon as they
> wanted them.  So far, they have avoided falling into debauchery, so I
> feel vindicated.
>
> Annemehr,
> thinking it would be funny if there were an analogous exercise for
> boys...


montims:

Oh dear - not getting at you Annemehr, but this is one subject that really
annoys me.  Why the devil SHOULD females remove perfectly healthy hair from
their legs, underarms, eyebrows, or wherever, unless they are longdistance
swimmers or some such?  If it were something that all humans had to do for
health reasons, I would have no problem.  But for females (not males) to
feel obliged to shave or wax, and to feel ugly if they don't, is a
horrendous concept for me.

Luckily I took this feminist stance before I was too conditioned to do it,
then went to live in Italy where, at the time (I don't know about now) it
would never have occurred to women to get this done, and now I live in
America, my husband has no qualms about my being hairy.  (And I grow long,
dark, body hair).  And why should he?  Why should we try to recreate a
prepubescent look for women, young or old?  I can't believe that female body
baldness is required by men.  It is an artificial construct encouraged by
women for their daughters, IMO, just as (much more extremely) footbinding
was, and female circumcision is.

Oh, and what is it with the Americans (I stress Americans, not to be rude
about them, but I have never encountered this among Europeans) I have met
showering all the time, at least once a day?  I wash myself daily, and don't
smell, but this obsession with being CLEAN under all circumstances (my
coworkers confide that they shower before going to bed, get up again to
shower if they have "been intimate", and then shower again in the morning
before dressing...) leaves me astounded.  Water is a finite resource,
people...

Sorry - rant over.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Feb 15 16:14:09 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:14:09 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <fp3fd9+8hal@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c86fed$cef9f880$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Geoff:
| Thank you, Professor Storm.
| 
| Just a minor point. You have spelt my name 
| incorrectly; there are two 'n's in it.

[Lee]:
Uh--yeah...I'm using one of those rubber portable keyboards which always
makes some of my typing interesting, and I failed to spell-check...Naughty
Me!  Iron my fingers!

I use this rubber thing in lieu of my tiny laptop keyboard, but I do have to
proof after I type because it sometimes doesn't type a letter it's supposed
to and other times gives too many.  It likes to repeat commas and often
misses the second "l" in words like "well," and stuff like that.  But it is
good for portable work.

I shall iron my fingers for not properly assuring that Mr. Bannister's name
was spelled correctly. :-)

Cheers,
Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Feb 15 16:26:55 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:26:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802150609m5c360f44y3fab8a4b101062f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701c86fef$9767d390$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| montims:
| 
| Oh dear - not getting at you Annemehr, but this is one 
| subject that really
| annoys me.  Why the devil SHOULD females remove perfectly 
| healthy hair from
| their legs, underarms, eyebrows, or wherever, unless they are 
| longdistance
| swimmers or some such?  If it were something that all humans 
| had to do for
| health reasons, I would have no problem.  But for females 
| (not males) to
| feel obliged to shave or wax, and to feel ugly if they don't, is a
| horrendous concept for me.

[Lee]:
You know, I agree, and I am an American who was taught all that by my Mom.
Yet, I always thought it was silly.

I tend not to deal with the shaving thing during the winter; it's a waste of
time, I figure.  But I remember spending a night with my girl friend who
made a point of remarking how I hadn't shaved .  My response was something
like no, I hadn't, an so what.... :-)

I do admit that in the summer I do, especially under arms, but I'm not
fussed if I don't do it all the time.

I would like to know how the whole shaving for women got started here.

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Who often doesn't conform with convention.)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 15 17:14:11 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:14:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Birthday x 3!
Message-ID: <924269.92082.qm@web63413.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

*cleans up the mess from the last parties and starts
fresh with new balloons and streamers (some of which
are printed to look remarkably like filmstrips! -
winks at Dan)*

It wasn't too much of a mess, considering the partying
going on in here. Thanks for keeping it under control,
everyone!

We've got lots to celebrated today - three birthdays!

Our honourees today are Dan (darkthirty), Miss Norbert
von Ridgeback and Betty (aka SilverStag). Birthday
owls can be sent care of this list or directly to Dan:
lunalovegood at shaw.ca Miss von Ridgeback:
wim.fok at consunet.nl and Betty:
prongs at marauders-map.net

Okay, we need a few more things for this party to get
started.

*brings in trolleys of sandwiches and finger foods and
assorted beverages*

Yes, I know we need cake! Did you think I'd forget?
Look over on that table in the corner.

*points out a table along the back wall with 3 cakes
in various colours, all very tall and looking in
danger of toppling over*

Okay, folks, have fun. I won't be joining you today,
I've got to finish packing for my vacation.

I hope all of you have a magical days filled with good
friends, good food and lots of fun.

Happy Birthday, Dan!
Happy Birthday, Miss Norbert von Ridgeback!
Happy Birthday, Betty!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

Join the fun at Convention Alley 2008



      Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Feb 15 17:50:51 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:50:51 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday x 3!
In-Reply-To: <924269.92082.qm@web63413.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c86ffb$4dfe1230$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

Ah--there goes my waist-line...again!  Hmm---any chocolate there?  Save some
dark for me, please?

Happy Birthday, good peoples!!!

I think I'll grab that coffee cup instead of the butterbeer for now...too
much to do and must stay awake to do it. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From bdclark0423 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 15 21:35:28 2008
From: bdclark0423 at yahoo.com (bdclark0423)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:35:28 -0000
Subject: Golden Compass
In-Reply-To: <fn42du+sjtd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp50j0+4m2n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> Speaking of movies. Does anyone know what this movie means? I 
heard 
> that it was controversial, so naturally I had to see it. I sensed 
some 
> sort of religious theme, and maybe a slam against the RC church 
> structure, but other than that I just came away confused. What did 
it 
> all mean?? Why is it controversial? Someone told me that there 
were 
> post about it on the net from the same sorts of people who are 
opposed 
> to HP. Maybe I should start looking around the net. Has anyone 
here 
> seen the movie?
> 
> Tonks_op
>


bdclark0423:
I tried to read through the responses and intentionally avoided 
anything with spoilers since I haven't seen the film yet.  But I 
didn't see anywhere it being mentioned that other than PP being 
atheist being the conterversial issue.  My mom, however, said that 
this whole series of books was that the characters in the book 
wanted to kill God and she would never endorse such a theme.

I could see how a fight against oppression, especially religion, 
could be a theme that's contreversial, but to fight agains God, or 
to want him to die, seems like a ludicrous plot (I mean, how could a 
person kill a god....?)

anyway, I guess I should just see the movie and come to my own 
conclusions before I condemn anyone.  That was my advice to my mom, 
before passing judgement, see what message is being conveyed to you, 
and afterwards, whether you agree or not, it will only strengthen 
your own beleif.  

bdclark0423




From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Fri Feb 15 23:05:13 2008
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 09:05:13 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Golden Compass
In-Reply-To: <fp50j0+4m2n@eGroups.com>
References: <fn42du+sjtd@eGroups.com>,<fp50j0+4m2n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EBC8113FA09F449B6CC44C847E510911CDFC63323@QUTEXMBX02.qut.edu.au>

Tonks:
> Speaking of movies. Does anyone know what this movie means? I
heard
> that it was controversial, so naturally I had to see it. I sensed
some
> sort of religious theme, and maybe a slam against the RC church
> structure, but other than that I just came away confused. What did
it
> all mean?? Why is it controversial? Someone told me that there
were
> post about it on the net from the same sorts of people who are
opposed
> to HP. Maybe I should start looking around the net. Has anyone
here
> seen the movie?
>
> Tonks_op
>

bdclark0423:
I tried to read through the responses and intentionally avoided
anything with spoilers since I haven't seen the film yet. But I
didn't see anywhere it being mentioned that other than PP being
atheist being the conterversial issue. My mom, however, said that
this whole series of books was that the characters in the book
wanted to kill God and she would never endorse such a theme.

I could see how a fight against oppression, especially religion,
could be a theme that's contreversial, but to fight agains God, or
to want him to die, seems like a ludicrous plot (I mean, how could a
person kill a god....?)

anyway, I guess I should just see the movie and come to my own
conclusions before I condemn anyone. That was my advice to my mom,
before passing judgement, see what message is being conveyed to you,
and afterwards, whether you agree or not, it will only strengthen
your own beleif.

Sharon:
I saw the movie and thought it fairly harmless. It didn't appear anti-Christian at all to me, although I could see how you could liken the ruling organisation in it to the Catholic Church. They have similar characteristics such as similar hierarchy and loads of wealth and influence. The story (without spoilers) is basically about how a young girl goes off on an adventure to find truth.  Truth, you see, is a bit of a casualty as far as the ruling organisation is concerned (which might be why some Catholics are so up in arms about the movie!). There's a bit of intrigue, and some great digital effects, and also I say YAY for a female hero!



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Feb 15 23:23:08 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:23:08 -0000
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <000601c86fed$cef9f880$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fp56ss+iev1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> | Geoff:
> | Thank you, Professor Storm.
> | 
> | Just a minor point. You have spelt my name 
> | incorrectly; there are two 'n's in it.
> 
> [Lee]:
> Uh--yeah...I'm using one of those rubber portable keyboards which always
> makes some of my typing interesting, and I failed to spell-check...Naughty
> Me!  Iron my fingers!
> 
> I use this rubber thing in lieu of my tiny laptop keyboard, but I do have to
> proof after I type because it sometimes doesn't type a letter it's supposed
> to and other times gives too many.  It likes to repeat commas and often
> misses the second "l" in words like "well," and stuff like that.  But it is
> good for portable work.
> 
> I shall iron my fingers for not properly assuring that Mr. Bannister's name
> was spelled correctly. :-)

Geoff:
Heavens! Don't do that. As least you didn't indulge in any of the rude 
comments I proscribed......




From drdara at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 16 01:16:52 2008
From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:16:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"
Message-ID: <139807.18921.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

lol, in Are You there God its me Margaret, Margaret and her friends do an excercise that is supposed to help them incre3ase their breast size, the chant was we must, we must, we must increase our bust, saying that with 7th grade boys was just funny

Danielle


----- Original Message ----
From: Carol <justcarol67 at yahoo.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:47:45 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"

danielle dassero wrote:
>
> I don't think I've read blubber, I read are there god in 7th grade
as part of english and the guys i walked home with used to the i must
i must i must increase my bust exercise and just cracked me up.

Carol responds:
My apologies for the belated response, but I haven't had time to post
lately.

At any rate, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Is that
exercise depicted in "Are You there, God? It's Me, Margaret"? If so, I
must read that book because one of the more humiliating experiences of
my adolescence was Girls" PE. We wore horrible white uniforms (a
blouse and shorts) that had to be *ironed.* (Surely, the manufacturers
could have made them permanent press? It *had* been invented, even in
those days.

So imagine a tall, skinny blonde girl with glasses who's just learning
to shave her legs and sometimes has razor burn because she hasn't
quite got the hang of it yet having to hold out her arms, bent at the
elbow like chicken wings at shoulder height, and bring them to gether
and apart, all the time chanting along with twenty-four other
embarrassed girls, "We must! We must! We must develop our bust!" Not
only did we know there were boys watching us out the window of some
classroom, distracted from Algebra or Biology or whatever they were
supposed to be studying and whispering about us to each other, but I
hated the bad grammar. If we *must* recite ths stupid rhyme (and what
was the teacher *thinking* to make us do it?), at least "busts" should
be plural (and the heck with the rhyme) since we didn't share a
collective bust!

Carol, who had to recite that wretched rhyme in eighth, ninth, and
tenth grades and is now wondering why she can't remember doing it in
eleventh or twelfth (no PE in those years?)





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From drdara at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 16 01:22:54 2008
From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Golden Compass-Book Spoilers
Message-ID: <417377.44328.qm@web65504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

The 1st 2 books are tame religous wise, in the 3rd book the arthur kills god, well not really
he kills a woman who is pretending or thinks she is god, but she's not of course

Danielle


----- Original Message ----
From: Sharon Hayes <s.hayes at qut.edu.au>
To: "HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com" <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:05:13 PM
Subject: RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Golden Compass

Tonks:
> Speaking of movies. Does anyone know what this movie means? I
heard
> that it was controversial, so naturally I had to see it. I sensed
some
> sort of religious theme, and maybe a slam against the RC church
> structure, but other than that I just came away confused. What did
it
> all mean?? Why is it controversial? Someone told me that there
were
> post about it on the net from the same sorts of people who are
opposed
> to HP. Maybe I should start looking around the net. Has anyone
here
> seen the movie?
>
> Tonks_op
>

bdclark0423:
I tried to read through the responses and intentionally avoided
anything with spoilers since I haven't seen the film yet. But I
didn't see anywhere it being mentioned that other than PP being
atheist being the conterversial issue. My mom, however, said that
this whole series of books was that the characters in the book
wanted to kill God and she would never endorse such a theme.

I could see how a fight against oppression, especially religion,
could be a theme that's contreversial, but to fight agains God, or
to want him to die, seems like a ludicrous plot (I mean, how could a
person kill a god....?)

anyway, I guess I should just see the movie and come to my own
conclusions before I condemn anyone. That was my advice to my mom,
before passing judgement, see what message is being conveyed to you,
and afterwards, whether you agree or not, it will only strengthen
your own beleif.

Sharon:
I saw the movie and thought it fairly harmless. It didn't appear anti-Christian at all to me, although I could see how you could liken the ruling organisation in it to the Catholic Church. They have similar characteristics such as similar hierarchy and loads of wealth and influence. The story (without spoilers) is basically about how a young girl goes off on an adventure to find truth. Truth, you see, is a bit of a casualty as far as the ruling organisation is concerned (which might be why some Catholics are so up in arms about the movie!). There's a bit of intrigue, and some great digital effects, and also I say YAY for a female hero!




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From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 16 02:25:35 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 02:25:35 -0000
Subject: Extended Deadlines for Convention Alley 2008!
Message-ID: <fp5hiv+ipqo@eGroups.com>

Convention Alley 2008 will be extending the deadline for the Call for 
Papers until March 15, 2008. If you had an idea rolling around but 
never quite got around to getting a proposal together, now is the time! 
Please email proposals to convention_alley at yahoo.ca by March 15th.

In conjunction with the extended CFP deadline, we will also be 
extending our early registration deadline until midnight March 31, 
2008. 

Any questions relating to programming or the CFP can be addressed to 
convention_alley at yahoo.ca. General questions can be posed here to sent 
to hpottawa at yahoo.no

Hope to see you all soon!

Sheryll Townsend
Chair
Convention Alley 2008





From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Sat Feb 16 03:31:18 2008
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:31:18 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Extended Deadlines for Convention Alley 2008!
In-Reply-To: <fp5hiv+ipqo@eGroups.com>
References: <fp5hiv+ipqo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EBC8113FA09F449B6CC44C847E510911CDFC63332@QUTEXMBX02.qut.edu.au>



Sheryll:
Convention Alley 2008 will be extending the deadline for the Call for
Papers until March 15, 2008. If you had an idea rolling around but
never quite got around to getting a proposal together, now is the time!
Please email proposals to convention_alley at yahoo.ca<mailto:convention_alley%40yahoo.ca> by March 15th.

In conjunction with the extended CFP deadline, we will also be
extending our early registration deadline until midnight March 31,
2008.

Sharon
Does the convention have a website? Where can we get more info?
Thanks.



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Feb 16 06:13:10 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:13:10 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Golden Compass
In-Reply-To: <3EBC8113FA09F449B6CC44C847E510911CDFC63323@QUTEXMBX02.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <000001c87063$021e9110$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Sharon:
| I saw the movie and thought it fairly harmless. It didn't 
| appear anti-Christian at all to me, although I could see how 
| you could liken the ruling organisation in it to the Catholic 
| Church. They have similar characteristics such as similar 
| hierarchy and loads of wealth and influence. The story 
| (without spoilers) is basically about how a young girl goes 
| off on an adventure to find truth.

[Lee]:
That's only the first book/movie.  But as one gets deeper, one will see what
the brewhaha is about.

Cheers,

Lee :-)
<Snip>
Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From zanelupin at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 16 06:31:19 2008
From: zanelupin at yahoo.com (KathyK)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:31:19 -0000
Subject: Extended Deadlines for Convention Alley 2008!
In-Reply-To: <3EBC8113FA09F449B6CC44C847E510911CDFC63332@QUTEXMBX02.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <fp5vvn+hsru@eGroups.com>

> Sharon
> Does the convention have a website? Where can we get more info?
> Thanks.

KathyK:

The website is here:

http://www.conventionalley2008.org/





From s.hayes at qut.edu.au  Sat Feb 16 06:36:20 2008
From: s.hayes at qut.edu.au (Sharon Hayes)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:36:20 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Extended Deadlines for Convention Alley
 2008!
In-Reply-To: <fp5vvn+hsru@eGroups.com>
References: <3EBC8113FA09F449B6CC44C847E510911CDFC63332@QUTEXMBX02.qut.edu.au>,<fp5vvn+hsru@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EBC8113FA09F449B6CC44C847E510911CDFC63337@QUTEXMBX02.qut.edu.au>



KathyK:

The website is here:

http://www.conventionalley2008.org/

Sharon:
Oh, it's in Canada! I've always wanted to go there!  Who else is going from the group?




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Feb 16 20:42:23 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:42:23 -0000
Subject: Golden Compass
In-Reply-To: <000001c87063$021e9110$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fp7hrf+hp73@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing
Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> That's only the first book/movie.  But as one gets deeper, one will 
> see what the brewhaha is about.

They provided the first movie with a happy ending by ending it 3/4 of
the way through the first book.





From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Feb 16 20:53:25 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:53:25 -0000
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Geoff!
In-Reply-To: <19061.60956.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fp7ig5+f894@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at ...>
wrote:
> I has missed a birthday! *shuffles feet and blushes*
> I missed it by lots, too! 

I missed it by even more. 

Hey. Geoff, look what the wizard friends gave you! A giant model steam
train set (looks like one inch to one foot scale) that you have to
keep putting water in the boiler and fuel in the burner for it to run.
Not coal -- I think it might be propane.




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sun Feb 17 07:06:43 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 07:06:43 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
Message-ID: <fp8me3+m1jf@eGroups.com>

Is anyone familiar with the television series Freaks and Geeks?

I guess it got good reviews.

I was in a video store with my children today and it was playing.
After hearing profanity five times, I asked one of the workers to 
turn it off. She mumbled at me.
It continued and five minutes later it featured a screaming match 
between a teenager and her stepfather, they were screaming 
profanities, and she was calling him a big fat loser. 
Before THAT, they were discussing menstruating during intercourse, 
and "walking in on someone."
I asked (again) that it be turned off. The manager responded "well, 
it's on television." And an obviously impaired teenager said "yeah, 
it's on tv."
As if that made it okay.
I repeated my request loudly (but courteously) several times, and 
eventually the manager turned it off. 
He seemed unable to understand my objections (there were children 
down to age four in the store).
Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of stuff is 
unsuitable for children?
Unfortunately, my children have heard profanity at school quite a 
bit, and the occasional DAMN from me and my partner (whereupon we 
have to put a quarter in the jar). 
But we eschew the words "stupid", "dumb" and "retarded" in our house, 
and we do NOT watch commercial television.

Steamed,

Susan




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 17 08:48:07 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:48:07 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8me3+m1jf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp8sc7+k57c@eGroups.com>


> Susan:
> Is anyone familiar with the television series Freaks and Geeks?

Kemper now:
Yes.  It is a series worth watching.  When my kid is in middle school,
I will make him watch with me.  The show had commercials, but it was
not commercial.  It was smart.  Unfortunately, only smart people
watched it.  As we all know, we are not legion.

> Susan:
> I asked (again) that it be turned off. The manager responded "well, 
> it's on television." And an obviously impaired teenager said "yeah, 
> it's on tv."

Kemper now:
It's unfortunate that 'it's on television' was the response.  S/He
should have been excited to talk to you about such an awesome show and
attempted to persuade you in renting it sometime.  I know you are very
passionate in with GLBT issues.  GLAAD Media Awards nominated the
episode, 'The Little Things', for Outstanding TV Individual Episode
(In a Series Without a Regular Gay Character)

> Susan:
> I repeated my request loudly (but courteously) several times, and 
> eventually the manager turned it off. 
> He seemed unable to understand my objections (there were children 
> down to age four in the store).
> Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of stuff is 
> unsuitable for children?

Kemper now:
I'm not sure if you had the four year old, but it seems unreasonable
to bring in the kid to a video store and expect only kid appropriate
shows on the tv.  

If I was there and there turned it off, I would ask courteously that
it be turned back on.

> Susan:
> Unfortunately, my children have heard profanity at school quite a 
> bit, and the occasional DAMN from me and my partner (whereupon we 
> have to put a quarter in the jar). 
> But we eschew the words "stupid", "dumb" and "retarded" in our
house, ...

Kemper now:
Your children have heard profanity, how do you know that they do not
experiment with the language as well?  I ask that with all respect.  I
did not swear in my house until I was a late teen, but I started
swearing during recess in grade school.  Never near the teachers, just
with my friends.  My mom would have been shocked if she found out, but
I loved my mom (still do) and would never dream about swearing within
earshot of her back then.  Similarly, maybe your children love and
respect you enough not to swear in your presence.  

> Susan: ...and we do NOT watch commercial television.

Kemper now:
There are good shows on commercial television, they're just rare.

Kemper




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Feb 17 13:28:53 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:28:53 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8sc7+k57c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp9cql+3esk@eGroups.com>

 
> Kemper now:
> It's unfortunate that 'it's on television' was the response.  S/He
> should have been excited to talk to you about such an awesome show 
and
> attempted to persuade you in renting it sometime.  I know you are 
very
> passionate in with GLBT issues.  GLAAD Media Awards nominated the
> episode, 'The Little Things', for Outstanding TV Individual Episode
> (In a Series Without a Regular Gay Character)

Potioncat:
What is GLBT and GLAAD?

> > Susan:
> > I repeated my request loudly (but courteously) several times, and 
> > eventually the manager turned it off. 
> > He seemed unable to understand my objections (there were children 
> > down to age four in the store).
> > Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of 
stuff is 
> > unsuitable for children?

Potioncat:
I'm with Susan on this one. I feel that anything that is broadcast in 
an area should be appropriate for everyone who would reasonably be 
there. That is, child friendly if families would be expected. I don't 
know anything about the show itself. When you go to the movies, the 
previews are supposed to be rated "for everyone." You would think a 
video store would do the same.

I've asked for the ubiquitous waiting room TV to be changed on 
occasion when there were children present. But waiting room TVs are a 
different matter. I'd like to have them banned completely!

 




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Feb 17 14:51:25 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:51:25 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp9cql+3esk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp9hld+7bn2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Kemper now:
> > It's unfortunate that 'it's on television' was the response.  S/He
> > should have been excited to talk to you about such an awesome show 
> and
> > attempted to persuade you in renting it sometime.  I know you are 
> very
> > passionate in with GLBT issues.  GLAAD Media Awards nominated the
> > episode, 'The Little Things', for Outstanding TV Individual Episode
> > (In a Series Without a Regular Gay Character)
> 
> Potioncat:
> What is GLBT and GLAAD?
> 

Geoff:
GLBT = Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender
GLAAD = Gay and Lesbian Alliance against Defamation




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 17 15:51:19 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:51:19 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8sc7+k57c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fp9l5n+q18v@eGroups.com>

 > Susan:
> > I asked (again) that it be turned off. The manager 
responded "well, 
> > it's on television." And an obviously impaired teenager 
said "yeah, 
> > it's on tv."
> 
> Kemper now:
> It's unfortunate that 'it's on television' was the response.  S/He
> should have been excited to talk to you about such an awesome show 
and
> attempted to persuade you in renting it sometime.  I know you are 
very
> passionate in with GLBT issues.  GLAAD Media Awards nominated the
> episode, 'The Little Things', for Outstanding TV Individual Episode
> (In a Series Without a Regular Gay Character)
> 

Magpie:
The store probably has a policy about what they can show. At least 
that would be my guess. Network TV has limited profanity (words like 
stupid of course would not be considered such), so the store is 
probably allowed by policy to show that in ways they wouldn't be 
allowed to run an R-rated movie or The Sopranos. 

My roommate worked in a laid-back store and their policy was they 
couldn't play anything R-rated and were iffy on PG-13--and they 
usually chose things based on soundtrack because they couldn't really 
see the screens themselves--F&G probably has a pretty good soundtrack 
(did it only recently come out on DVD? That could be another reason 
to show that one). 

She also said they had to start being careful because they were in a 
shopping center and people would just park their kids in the store in 
front of their TVs as a babysitter!

So yeah, I'm sure the store has a policy of nothing R-rated at least, 
and quite possibly nothing PG-13 rated, but they're not going to be 
cutting out something like Freaks and Geeks because it includes 
teenagers fighting within network TV guidelines. Which was maybe what 
the inarticulate "Yeah, it's on television!" meant, that since it 
wasn't even a cable show or a movie, it was okay by what they 
considered reasonable standards.

I really should check out this show. Everybody always tells me it's 
great--plus I think it covers years when I was in school so it's kind 
of crazy for me to not even check it out. I wouldn't have 4-year-olds 
watching it, of course--they'd probably be bored with it anyway.

-m






From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Feb 17 16:15:15 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:15:15 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8me3+m1jf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c87180$48735650$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Susan]:
| I was in a video store with my children today and it was playing.
| After hearing profanity five times, I asked one of the workers to 
| turn it off. She mumbled at me.
| It continued and five minutes later it featured a screaming match 
| between a teenager and her stepfather, they were screaming 
| profanities, and she was calling him a big fat loser. 
| Before THAT, they were discussing menstruating during intercourse, 
| and "walking in on someone."

[Lee]:
And that's the state of most of the programming out there, I'm
afraid...Totally Disgusting!  Whatever happened to "Honor Your Father And
Your Mother..."?

[Susan Again]:
| I asked (again) that it be turned off. The manager responded "well, 
| it's on television." And an obviously impaired teenager said "yeah, 
| it's on tv."
| As if that made it okay.
| I repeated my request loudly (but courteously) several times, and 
| eventually the manager turned it off. 
| He seemed unable to understand my objections (there were children 
| down to age four in the store).

[Lee]:
Yeah, and some of what is called "Children's Programming" leaves much to be
desired, too.  It's amazing what the PTB in the networks deem acceptable
viewing.  If it's not laced or profused with profanity and disrespect and
dysfunctional characters, it's dumbed down to plots which require no
engagement of complex thought processes...or even non-complex ones.
Violence and swearing and misuse of normal English vocabulary seem to be the
order of the day.

I feel very sorry for conscientious parents who try to find age-appropriate,
wholesome things for their children to watch!  Glad I'm not a parent!

[Susan]:
| Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of stuff is 
| unsuitable for children?
| Unfortunately, my children have heard profanity at school quite a 
| bit, and the occasional DAMN from me and my partner (whereupon we 
| have to put a quarter in the jar). 
| But we eschew the words "stupid", "dumb" and "retarded" in our house, 
| and we do NOT watch commercial television.
| 
| Steamed,
| 
| Susan

[Lee]:
I sympathize and empathize with you!!!!  I have no children, but find myself
in the same position for myself.  What's really sad is when I find
something, movie or whatever, that has good story potential and is suddenly
ruined by an onslaught of profanity and/or violence and/or gratuitous sex
which do absolutely nothing to enhance the story and, for me, detract
majorly from it.

Well, Susan, My Friend, if you're out of step, I shall step beside you and
we can both be out of step together.  Shall we dance? (OOPS! Watch your
toes...didn't mean to trod upon them!) :-)

Seriously, I'm as out of step as you are in this regard, and proud of it!
The only reason I keep my cable TV is because Art likes having the History
Channel, we both appreciate having the Weather Channel, and there are times
when DSC and TLC show interesting things when they're not swamping us with
"What Not To Wear" and other things which should be on another network...

Which brings up another thought:
Have the minds of writers and network execs dried up so that real
programming has gone by the wayside, only to be replaced with things like
"BrideZillas," "Rich Bride, Poor Bride," and other such ghastliness?

Never mind...I'll stop here as this is a topic which really brings my BP up
as well as my hackles.

Lee (Who's Out Of Step And Proud Of It!!!)





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Feb 17 16:31:32 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8sc7+k57c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000401c87182$8e519ea0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Kemper now:
| I'm not sure if you had the four year old, but it seems unreasonable
| to bring in the kid to a video store and expect only kid appropriate
| shows on the tv.  

[Lee]:
Excuse me?  Why is that unreasonable?  If a parent brings in a child to rend
a Disney flick, I think it's a slap in the parent's face to show things in a
video store where families come that are not rated at least a PG.  And some
of what's on TV today I'd rate an R for the use of strong language.  Video
stores are public places inhabited by people of all ages, and managers
should be sensitive to this by playing family-appropriate material, IMHO.
Cheers,

Lee, The Old-Fashioned Girl :)





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb 17 16:43:22 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 17 Feb 2008 16:43:22 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/17/2008, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1203266602.9.98683.m35@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 17, 2008
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2008 
 Yahoo! Inc.
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From random832 at fastmail.us  Sun Feb 17 17:29:42 2008
From: random832 at fastmail.us (Random832)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:29:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Blubber and "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802150609m5c360f44y3fab8a4b101062f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fp2nfh+9b03@eGroups.com> <fp2vot+70j3@eGroups.com> <8ee758b40802150609m5c360f44y3fab8a4b101062f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B86F06.5050303@fastmail.us>

> montims:
> Oh, and what is it with the Americans (I stress Americans, not to be rude
> about them, but I have never encountered this among Europeans) I have met
> showering all the time, at least once a day?  I wash myself daily, and don't
> smell, but this obsession with being CLEAN under all circumstances (my
> coworkers confide that they shower before going to bed, get up again to
> shower if they have "been intimate", and then shower again in the morning
> before dressing...) leaves me astounded.  Water is a finite resource,
> people...

Random832:
Water may be a finite resource, but it is not, in fact, consumed by any 
activity except for cracking it into separate hydrogen and oxygen molecules.



From specialcritters at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 17 17:47:50 2008
From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:47:50 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <47B86F06.5050303@fastmail.us>
References: <fp2nfh+9b03@eGroups.com> <fp2vot+70j3@eGroups.com>
 <8ee758b40802150609m5c360f44y3fab8a4b101062f4@mail.gmail.com>
 <47B86F06.5050303@fastmail.us>
Message-ID: <BAY138-W29FF011DA8A214D724DE29B2200@phx.gbl>


I saw this today and had to laugh--perfect timing for this discussion!  http://health.msn.com/fitness/fit-zone/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100187698&GT1=10914
_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb 17 18:40:24 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 17 Feb 2008 18:40:24 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/17/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1203273624.10.13828.m53@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 17, 2008
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2008 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

Privacy Policy:
 http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 17 19:58:05 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:58:05 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp9cql+3esk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpa3kd+388i@eGroups.com>


> > Susan:
> > I repeated my request loudly (but courteously) several times, and 
> > eventually the manager turned it off. 
> > He seemed unable to understand my objections (there were children 
> > down to age four in the store).
> > Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of 
> > stuff is unsuitable for children?
> 
> Potioncat:
> I'm with Susan on this one. I feel that anything that is broadcast in 
> an area should be appropriate for everyone who would reasonably be 
> there. That is, child friendly if families would be expected. I don't 
> know anything about the show itself. When you go to the movies, the 
> previews are supposed to be rated "for everyone." You would think a 
> video store would do the same.

Kemper now:
Anybody can go into a video store, so should the only thing being
played be rated TV-Y, TV-G or G?

I'm not saying that 'Sex in the City' or 'New Jack City' should be
allowed to play.  

Where is the line?  

And if somethings are allowed at TV-Y7 or TV-PG, why would 'Fairly Odd
Parents', which is rated TV-Y and seems to set parents as morons, or
'Kid Nation', which is rated TV-PG and exploits children for
advertising dollars, be ok to watch?

Maybe shows should be played based on moral enrichment, like 'Freaks
and Geeks'.  ... I think my problem is that the situation as presented
seems to embrace ignorance though censorship before seeking knowledge:
guilty until proven innocent.  

Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 17 20:11:24 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:11:24 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp9l5n+q18v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpa4dc+ut58@eGroups.com>


> > Susan:
> > I asked (again) that it be turned off. The manager 
> > responded "well, 
> > it's on television." And an obviously impaired teenager 
> > said "yeah, 
> > it's on tv."

> Magpie:
> My roommate worked in a laid-back store and their policy was they 
> couldn't play anything R-rated and were iffy on PG-13--and they 
> usually chose things based on soundtrack because they couldn't 
> really 
> see the screens themselves--F&G probably has a pretty good 
> soundtrack 
> (did it only recently come out on DVD? That could be another reason 
> to show that one). 

Kemper now:
That makes a lot of sense.  Freaks and Geeks does have a good
soundtrack, in fact the producers didn't want to put it out on DVD
until they had the go from such artists as: Van Halen, Cheap Trick,
The Who, The Dead, Billy Joel, etc.
...The DVD came out 4 years ago.

> Magpie 
> I really should check out this show. Everybody always tells me it's 
> great--plus I think it covers years when I was in school so it's 
> kind of crazy for me to not even check it out. 

Kemper:
They are right!  I was on the petition list to get the show on DVD and
bought the Yearbook Edition.  I dropped a pretty dime, but it was
worth it.
The show takes place in the 1980-81 school year, so if you were in jr.
high or high school it may be more nostalgic.  I was in jr. high until
a couple of years later.  

Kemper, identified with the Geeks much more than the Freaks




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 17 20:15:41 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:15:41 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <000301c87180$48735650$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fpa4ld+383f@eGroups.com>


> [Susan]:
> | I was in a video store with my children today and it was playing.
> | After hearing profanity five times, I asked one of the workers to 
> | turn it off. She mumbled at me.
> | It continued and five minutes later it featured a screaming match 
> | between a teenager and her stepfather, they were screaming 
> | profanities, and she was calling him a big fat loser. 
> | Before THAT, they were discussing menstruating during intercourse, 
> | and "walking in on someone."
> 
> [Lee]:
> And that's the state of most of the programming out there, I'm
> afraid...Totally Disgusting!  Whatever happened to "Honor Your Father
> And Your Mother..."?

Kemper now:
The scene in which Susan is describing seems to come from an episode
in which the lead Freak character (as opposed the lead Freak) is at a
 girl friends house.  You get the idea that there is a lot of verbal,
emotional abuse and perhaps neglect at the house.  It's hard to honor
those who hurt you.

Kemper




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Feb 17 21:37:24 2008
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:37:24 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8me3+m1jf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpa9ek+39dg@eGroups.com>

Susan wrote:

> Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of stuff is 
> unsuitable for children?

Mary Ann:

How old is your child?  My girl and older boy are almost 11 and 10, and 
they would not be adversely affected by such language; they hear it in 
other places and I trust them to use their judgement.  Truth be told, 
they wouldn't be interested in such a show anyway; they're not 
interested in teenage dramas.  My 7-year-old has Autistic Spectrum 
Disorder and wouldn't be able to understand it anyway, and his severe 
speech impediment means that, even if he did pick up a few of those 
words, no one could understand them (I believe in looking at the bright 
side of life :D ).

I haven't heard of this show, much less watched it (I'm in the UK) but 
I doubt that the video store would show any show or movie above PG-13.  
We need to get Sheryll's attention ***whips out a photo of Alan Rickman 
and a bottle of Dr. Pepper*** and ask what the Canadian Blockbuster 
policy is.  IMO, provided the rating is not above PG-13 I see no reason 
to turn the TV off.  Despite having 3 kids and working with children I 
do not believe that the shops are obligated to cater entirely at a 
child's level.  The majority of the video shop customers are, I assume, 
adults, and therefore the shop's advertising would be geared towards 
them.  If something in a shop offends me I vote with my feet and my 
wallet, and go elsewhere.

Susan:
 
> Unfortunately, my children have heard profanity at school quite a 
> bit

Mary Ann:

Hee, "quite a bit"? :D  I'm a Rainbow Guider (5 to 7-year-olds) for two 
units and work in a primary school, mostly with Key Stage One kids 
(ages 4 to 7).  I'm 39, and in the playground words that I've never 
heard before waft into my ears, and while the Offenders get a right 
good rollicking none of the adults are usually shocked by the language 
(the only word that left me speechless was the N-word, because it's so 
rare to hear that word nowadays; young kids here often don't know that 
word and we did NOT want it to spread).  Here it's common for younger 
kids to watch Coronation Street and Eastenders with their parents and 
the language in these shows can be, by some people's standards, 
profane.  Mind you, the British are more relaxed about language use; 
what is considered acceptable by many British parents may be considered 
profane by parents in other countries, especially the US and Canada.

Susan:

> But we eschew the words "stupid", "dumb" and "retarded" in our house

Mary Ann:

Oh, same here, if the words are used as an insult.  But it's not 
uncommon to hear me say that "I'm having a stupid moment" if I do 
something daft and am having a laugh at myself, which the kids do as 
well.  It's not the word; it's the context.

Susan:
 
> and we do NOT watch commercial television.

Mary Ann:

***schnoogles the BBC***

Mary Ann, off to see what's on BBC4, one of the very few channels which 
doesn't induce nausea




From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 18 03:12:00 2008
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:12:00 -0000
Subject: "We must develop our bust"
In-Reply-To: <BAY138-W29FF011DA8A214D724DE29B2200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fpat20+ogea@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Lee Truslow <specialcritters at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> I saw this today and had to laugh--perfect timing for this discussion!  
http://health.msn.com/fitness/fit-zone/articlepage.aspx?cp-
documentid=100187698&GT1=10914
> _________________________________________________________________

Our gym teacher called these exercises "wing stretchers."  Uh, yeah, THAT"S what we were 
stretching!  We, of course, chanted the funny words "We must, we must, we must increase 
our bust.  The bigger the better. The tighter the sweater, the boys are depending on us!"  We 
got into trouble if she caught us saying this.




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 18 13:51:05 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:51:05 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: "The Hobbit" to be produced after all
In-Reply-To: <fl6gbg+go12@eGroups.com>
References: <fl6gbg+go12@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47B98D49.2060207@yahoo.com>

Carol:
> Peter Jackson and New Line have finally come to terms and he'll be
> making "the Hobbit" after all!

Or maybe not. The Tolkien Estate is suing New Line for a cut of the pie, 
and veto power over any future Tolkien projects. The Hobbit projects are 
on hold until the (new) legal issues are resolved.

CJ



From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 18 16:30:20 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:30:20 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpa4dc+ut58@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpcbqs+86lr@eGroups.com>

 > Magpie 
> > I really should check out this show. Everybody always tells me it's 
> > great--plus I think it covers years when I was in school so it's 
> > kind of crazy for me to not even check it out. 
> 
> Kemper:
> They are right!  I was on the petition list to get the show on DVD and
> bought the Yearbook Edition.  I dropped a pretty dime, but it was
> worth it.
> The show takes place in the 1980-81 school year, so if you were in jr.
> high or high school it may be more nostalgic.  I was in jr. high until
> a couple of years later.  

Magpie:
Thanks! I think I would have either been almost starting jr. high or 
just starting jr. high that year, so it would be fun for me.:-)

-m




From specialcritters at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 18 16:37:14 2008
From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:37:14 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpcbqs+86lr@eGroups.com>
References: <fpa4dc+ut58@eGroups.com> <fpcbqs+86lr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY138-W13C90049A71FB11326B97EB2210@phx.gbl>


That's my era, too, but I've never, ever seen it. I'm arranging to get it from the library now. Thanks! 
 
PS--What if you were a Freak AND a Geek?!!
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb 18 17:04:49 2008
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:04:49 -0000
Subject: Happy Belated Birthday, Riet!
Message-ID: <fpcdrh+psv2@eGroups.com>

Ahem.  

*cough, cough*  

Announcements, announcements, an-NOUNCE-ments!

Shorty Elf is here to do a little fixing up, she is.  Shorty is 
distressed to have to tell you that Rylly Elf has caused a right little 
mess with the birthday announcements.  

Shorty figures Miss Betty probably does not mind that her birthday 
announcement was made a day early... no, probably not.  But Master 
Riet?  Master Riet was left off altogether, and Rylly Elf is most 
agrieved.

Rylly Elf has been banished to a Greyhound bus, she has, as punishment 
for her deeds.

But she has left Shorty to fix things up, and Shorty is most happy to 
do so.  

*Shorty opens the door and hollers*

Mack, back that van up now, okay?  Slowly... be careful!  This is 
precious cargo, it is!  Okay, that's good... careful down the ramp, 
now.  Yes, Shorty knows the cake is heavy, Mack, but Shorty ordered a 
half-ton cake on purpose!

*The table in the corner wobbles a bit under the load of the oh-so-
lovely, humongous chocolate cake covered with mini replicas of Weasley 
fireworks*

There.  Now isn't that lovely?  Does that make up for things, Riet?  
Shorty figures this cake will feed all of Hogwarts and all of HPfGU and 
all of Riet's friends, too!

Now, everyone, please send your belated birthday greetings to Riet at 
riet.strijker at web.de
and enjoy the party!  

*Scatters confetti and party hats and streamers*

Rylly Elf will be back soon!  Everybody have fun until then!

*toots on noisemaker on the way out the door*

Shorty Elf





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Feb 18 17:41:36 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:41:36 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Belated Birthday, Riet!
In-Reply-To: <fpcdrh+psv2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001901c87255$829a3530$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Shorty Elf]:
| *The table in the corner wobbles a bit under the load of the oh-so-
| lovely, humongous chocolate cake covered with mini replicas 
| of Weasley 
| fireworks*
| 
| There.  Now isn't that lovely?  Does that make up for things, Riet?  
| Shorty figures this cake will feed all of Hogwarts and all of 
| HPfGU and 
| all of Riet's friends, too!
| 
| Now, everyone, please send your belated birthday greetings to Riet at 
| riet.strijker at web.de
| and enjoy the party!  
| 
| *Scatters confetti and party hats and streamers*
| 
| Rylly Elf will be back soon!  Everybody have fun until then!
| 

[Lee]:
OOPS!!! Drinks... no bevs! Ghastly!
*Lee hunts in her basement and finally finds the cases of butterbeer she's
been saving for something special and defrosts some pumpkin juice she's been
hording in the freezer with a wave of her wand.* (I'll send my bill to the
elves for these drinks!)

We can't have a party without something to wet our whistles and wash down
that lovely cake, true?

Happy Birthday and many more! *Lee cracks open a butterbeer.*

Cheers!  Nice cake!

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 19 22:20:56 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:20:56 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <fou5ni+e03g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpfko8+s96o@eGroups.com>

Susan wrote:
> I don't buy into this idea that men and women are intrinsically 
different (other than a few obvious things), or are from different 
planets. I don't agree, for example, that men are by nature violent. 
I suggest that men and women make choices to be violent.
> 
> Most of the differences between men and women are (in my humble 
opinion) learned, and can be unlearned.
> 
> Prejudice makes me uncomfortable.
> 
> So, let the flames begin....

Carol responds:

No flames, but I don't think that the view of men and women as
instrinsically different (in general--there are always exceptions) is
prejudice. I used to believe (in the Seventies!) that unisex clothing,
names, education, and, especially, toys, would eradicate the
differences between boys and girls and they would all just be
children, free to be themselves. IOW, I thought that all the
differences in behavior and attitude that we generally see between
boys and girls (for example, a preference in girls for dolls, clothes,
and make-up and in boys for cars, guns, and, these days, violent video
games) were *all* the product of cultural conditioning.

And, certainly, cultural conditioning does play a role. Just walk into
any toy store or watch commercials geared to girls as opposed to those
geared to boys. But my exposure to both boys and girls from infancy
through the teenage years, and to men, has changed my mind. I don't
mean that a girl *has* to like clothes and make-up. I almost never
wear make-up, I wear my hair straight and long (it's almost as long as
Dumbledore's; I'll give in and get a haircut soon since I'm tired of
being strangled by my own hair in my sleep), and I wouldn't be caught
dead in spike heels or pointed-toe shoes. But I don't like violence or
obscenity or sports. I like quiet activities--reading, writing,
conversation, trivia games, etc. The men I know, even the
intellectuals, have different tastes and a different sense of humor
(cruder, more appreciative of violence). There's something about that
Y chromosome (a broken X!!--no offense intended, but that's how the
mutation arose) that makes men and boys different. Boys (in general)
mature later than girls both physically and emotionally. 

That's not to say that we shouldn't do what we can to, say, avoid
creating or feeding an appetite for violence in boys and at the same
time, discouraging girls from focusing too much on their looks.
(Anorexia seldom occurs in boys, though bulimia does. Henry VIII and
his grandfather Edward IV were both bulimic, IIRC.)

But it isn't prejudice to see boys and girls as different. I don't
know any teenage boys who take an hour to put on their make-up in the
morning or any teenage girls who are obsessed with Doom 3 or whatever
the latest violent video game is. And their tastes in TV and movies
vary as well.

For that reason, books like the Harry Potter series, by a female
author but with a male protagonist and therefore likely to be read by
children and adolescents of both sexes are a good thing.
Fundamentally, and I think that you and I agree here, Susan, boys and
girls are people first, male or female second.

I do believe in encouraging children to be individuals, whether it's a
boy who wants to read "Little Women" or a girl who wants to play with
cars. And I do believe in discouraging violence, consumerism,
selfishness, and whatever else can lead kids down the wrong path. But
it's not easy. JKR is right, IMO, in depicting boys as hexing each
other in the hallways and girls as contenting themselves with snide
remarks (like Pansy Parkinson's comments on Hermione's looks).

Boys *are* different from girls and men from women, and sometimes it's
hard to relate to the opposite sex. Part of that results from cultural
conditioning, a different set of values for boys and girls (still true
today just as it was in medieval times or the nineteenth century), but
some of it is genetic. And, once the child hits puberty, you have
hormones as well as chromosomes to contend with.

I think that even if we could somehow remove false conceptions of
masculinity and femininity (which might involve moving to North
Labrador), most of them would still develop "masculine" or "feminine"
interests on their own because their brains are programmed differently.

Carol, asking people please not to flame her for holding opinions
based on her personal experience with people of both sexes




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 19 22:52:41 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:52:41 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fp35ss+dbr7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpfmjp+kdcv@eGroups.com>

-
> Although actually come to think of it, we do not know if she eats 
him or not, because Snape's body is left in the Shack and for all I 
know she may have come back and eat him whole, although this is a 
total speculation and not in the books of course.
> 
Carol:
Fortunately not. Neville kills Nagini, remember? She never reenters
the Shrieking Shack or anywhere else, thank goodness!
> 

Carol:
> > So I think she'll strike once, drawing enough bolld [erm, blood.
Why can't I type that word?]for him to bleed to death (though the
audience may think it's the venom that kills him). It doesn't have to
be graphic, just effective. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> And that was my point, how to make it easy on the eyes, which I 
agree most likely will be shown, although if we think of the huge IMO
amount of the important scenes that were omitted, I am not so sure
that the picture of Nagini striking will be there necessarily IMO.
> 
Carol:
Well, they'll need to make it clear that he's killed by the snake and
not by a spell, and he has to release the memories and ask Harry to
look into his eyes, so I don't see how they'll avoid showing the
blood. It will be a scary and horrifying scene even if they treat it
like Nagini's biting Mr. Weasley in the OoP film. (Not as horrific as
Bathilda!Nagini, though. I wonder if they'll show that?)
> 
> Carol:
> And snape, as I said, has to have that last interaction with Harry
after Nagini 
> leaves.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Sure, unless they decide to cut it out, but if they do not, I think
it is totally Okay for example if Trio comes upon Snape already 
bleeding and then he gives the memories. Not that I care one way or 
another, I mean, I do in a sense that I am easily scared LOL, but I
can close my eyes if I wish.

Carol responds:
I don't see how they can cut that scene, if only because it leads to
the Pensieve scene, which is Harry's reason for sacrificing himself
rather than trying to kill Voldemort. I also think that the whole
atonement/remorse/forgiveness/forswearing vengeance theme is crucial
and without Snape's death and Harry's forgiveness of him, that crucial
element is missing.

But, yeah. You can close your eyes, and I expect you'll want to more
than once. Even in HBP, there's the scene with the Inferi. And imagine
if they depict Regulus's death in the DH film. The Inferi actually
pull him into the water. Poor Regulus! At least his brother got an
easy death.
> 
> 
> My question was how they can show it to make it easier for those who 
> are easily scared and actually I think Pippin's answer is very 
> possible. If they show it as a shadow, I will be very happy and vou 
> la then Snape can have his last interaction with  Harry.

Carol:
Yes. Voile! And, speaking of easily scared, I wonder how they can make
these films, especially DH, suitable for viewers under nine or so
without ruining them for adults. (BTW, I didn't find the OoP Dementors
scary at all. The ones in PoA, with their scabby hands, were much
scarier.)
> 
> CArol:
> > I can't imagine them not showing Snape's death scene, which is
crucial to the plot. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> And you are most likely right, but I am not sure at all that bite 
> will be shown in all its glory necessarily.
>
Carol:
Then we agree. I think Snape's head being pulled into the bubble will
be scary enough, thank you!

Carol, imagining herself screaming like a little kid in the theater
and embarrassing everybody




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 19 23:03:45 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:03:45 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fpfmjp+kdcv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpfn8h+fbrt@eGroups.com>

Alla:
> > Although actually come to think of it, we do not know if she eats 
> him or not, because Snape's body is left in the Shack and for all I 
> know she may have come back and eat him whole, although this is a 
> total speculation and not in the books of course.
> > 
> Carol:
> Fortunately not. Neville kills Nagini, remember? She never reenters
> the Shrieking Shack or anywhere else, thank goodness! <SNIP>

Alla:

Yeah. I was speculating before her death. Short amount of time, but 
maybe she liked Snape so much that she was eager to taste him one 
more time.

Unlikely I know, but IMO not impossible. Unless Nagini's death 
occurred the very moment she left the Shack, I think theoretically 
she could return even within next hour or half an hour.

 
Carol:
<SNIP>
> But, yeah. You can close your eyes, and I expect you'll want to more
> than once. Even in HBP, there's the scene with the Inferi. And 
imagine
> if they depict Regulus's death in the DH film. The Inferi actually
> pull him into the water. Poor Regulus! At least his brother got an
> easy death.

Alla:

Yes, poor Regulus indeed.


> > Carol:
<SNIP>
> > > I can't imagine them not showing Snape's death scene, which is
> crucial to the plot. <SNIP>
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > And you are most likely right, but I am not sure at all that bite 
> > will be shown in all its glory necessarily.
> >
> Carol:
> Then we agree. I think Snape's head being pulled into the bubble 
will
> be scary enough, thank you!

Alla:

Well, yes about bite being scary and toned down somehow we do agree.

 
> Carol, imagining herself screaming like a little kid in the theater
> and embarrassing everybody
>

Alla:

Screaming, probably not, but closing my eyes - for sure.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 19 23:45:57 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:45:57 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fpfn8h+fbrt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpfpnl+d570@eGroups.com>


> Alla:
> > > Although actually come to think of it, we do not know if she eats 
> > him or not, because Snape's body is left in the Shack and for all I 
> > know she may have come back and eat him whole, although this is a 
> > total speculation and not in the books of course.
> > > 
> > Carol:
> > Fortunately not. Neville kills Nagini, remember? She never reenters
> > the Shrieking Shack or anywhere else, thank goodness! <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yeah. I was speculating before her death. Short amount of time, but 
> maybe she liked Snape so much that she was eager to taste him one 
> more time.
> 
> Unlikely I know, but IMO not impossible. Unless Nagini's death 
> occurred the very moment she left the Shack, I think theoretically 
> she could return even within next hour or half an hour.
> 

Carol responds:
She was in the bubble, remember? Voldemort was keeping her beside him
for protection. He only lets her out after Harry has been "killed," at
which point, he releases her and puts her around his shoulders (DH Am.
ed. 729). Voldemort proclaims himself the victor and tells his lie
about Harry's cowardly death. Almost immediately, Neville charges
forward and is Disarmed, LV summons the Sorting Hat and sets it on
fire, and everyone from Centaurs to Grawp comes charging forward.
Neville breaks free of the Body Bind curse and kills Nagini. It's not
clear whether she's still around Voldemort's shoulders or beside him,
but she hasn't gone anywhere. So, nope. She doesn't eat Snape or
anybody on the day of the Battle of Hogwarts. <snip>

Carol, hoping that Snape got a well-deserved hero's funeral as
headmaster of Hogwarts and that Lupin, Tonks, and Fred had moving
private funerals even though we didn't see any of them on page





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 01:39:21 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:39:21 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fpfmjp+kdcv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpg0c9+rhvs@eGroups.com>

> > Alla:
 
> > ... I am not so sure
> > that the picture of Nagini striking will be there necessarily IMO.

> Carol:
> Well, they'll need to make it clear 
> that he's killed by the snake and
> not by a spell, and he has to release the memories and ask Harry to
> look into his eyes, so I don't see how they'll avoid showing the
> blood. 

Kemper now:
I wish the movies were accurate to the books. As they aren't, I think 
there will be a spliced, mutated version to give the audience the 
relevant info.  Here's how I see it happening:
Snape is given mortal wound either on/off screen.
Harry rolls up on him as he lays dieing.
Snape Legilimens Harry who then sees the relevent memories of Snape 

Yes, I realize that is not how the spell works but since when are the 
movies canon?  Something like the above would happen to save time in 
the movie while also moving the plot along relatively smoothly.  
Besides, Movie!Snape is more smarmy and much less vile to Movie!Harry 
for there to be a need for much forgiveness.  Sure, Movie!DD will die 
by Movie!Snape's wand, but a quick little memory of,
DD: I only have a year to live, it's okay to kill me if it has to 
happen.
Snape: I don't really want to.
DD:  I'm not asking, I'm telling

and, abrakadabra, movie magic transfiguration.

The power of the scene will be lost.  But that's par for the course.

Kemper, who looks forward to the HP movie remake in 2022 (25th 
anniversary of SS)  








From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:20:05 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:20:05 -0000
Subject: Mensa
Message-ID: <fpgda5+a0a7@eGroups.com>


In case you missed it, this is the Washington Post's Mensa 
Invitational
which once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, 
alter
it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new
definition.  The winners are:

1.  Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the 
subject
financially impotent for an indefinite period of time.

2. Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an asshole.

3. Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until 
you
realize it was your money to start with.

4. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.

5. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops 
bright
ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little 
sign
of breaking down in the near future.

6. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of 
getting
laid.

7. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high.

8. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the 
person who
doesn't get it.

9. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.

10. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.

11. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.)

12. Karmageddon: It's when everybody is sending off all these really 
bad
vibes, and then the Earth explodes, and it's a serious bummer.

13. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day 
consuming
only things that are good for you.

14. Glibido: All talk and no action.

15. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when 
they
come at you rapidly.

16. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after 
you've
accidentally walked through a spider web.

17. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into 
your
bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.

18. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a worm in 
the
fruit you're eating.

The Washington Post has also published the winning submissions to its 
yearly
contest, in which readers are asked to supply alternate meanings for 
common
words.

And the winners are:

1. coffee, n. the person upon whom one coughs.

2. flabbergasted, adj. appalled by discovering how much weight one has
gained.

3. abdicate, v. to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach.

4. esplanade, v. to attempt an explanation while drunk.

5. willy-nilly, adj. impotent.

6. negligent, adj. absentmindedly answering the door when wearing 
only a
nightgown.

7. lymph, v. to walk with a lisp.

8. gargoyle, n. olive-flavored mouthwash.

9. flatulence, n. emergency vehicle that picks up someone who has 
been run
over by a steamroller.

10. balderdash, n. a rapidly receding hairline.

11. testicle, n. a humorous question on an exam.

12. rectitude, n. the formal, dignified bearing adopted by 
proctologists.

13. pokemon, n. a Rastafarian proctologist.

14. oyster, n. a person who sprinkles his conversation with 
Yiddishisms.

15. Frisbeetarianism, n. the belief that, after death, the soul flies 
up
onto the roof and gets stuck there.

16. circumvent, n. an opening in the front of boxer shorts worn by 
Jewish
men




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:23:05 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:23:05 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8sc7+k57c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpgdfp+hdph@eGroups.com>

> Kemper now:
> Your children have heard profanity, how do you know that they do not
> experiment with the language as well?  I ask that with all respect.  I
> did not swear in my house until I was a late teen, but I started
> swearing during recess in grade school.  Never near the teachers, just
> with my friends.  My mom would have been shocked if she found out, but
> I loved my mom (still do) and would never dream about swearing within
> earshot of her back then.  Similarly, maybe your children love and
> respect you enough not to swear in your presence.  
> 

They may experiment with profanity. But the fact is that they DO 
respect me too much to do it in my presence, and guess what....then 
they have the ABILITY to turn it OFF..unlike some young people I have 
seen lately who have lost jobs because they cannot seem to turn off 
their gutter mouths in a job interview or on the job.

Susan






From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:25:44 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:25:44 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpa3kd+388i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpgdko+g4km@eGroups.com>

> Maybe shows should be played based on moral enrichment, like 'Freaks
> and Geeks'.  ... I think my problem is that the situation as presented
> seems to embrace ignorance though censorship before seeking knowledge:
> guilty until proven innocent.  
> 
> Kemper
>


No, I don't think I was "embracing ignorance through censorship before 
seeking knowledge"..I was responding SPECIFICALLY to the language and 
dialogue on the screen while I was in the store.

And, actually, I have been in several different video stores every 
other month for about 8 years...AND, I have NEVER seen such language or 
scenes on the screen. Most video stores are very careful just to show 
family friendly videos.

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:27:21 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:27:21 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp9l5n+q18v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpgdnp+rvsb@eGroups.com>

> 
> So yeah, I'm sure the store has a policy of nothing R-rated at 
least, 
> and quite possibly nothing PG-13 rated, but they're not going to be 
> cutting out something like Freaks and Geeks because it includes 
> teenagers fighting within network TV guidelines. Which was maybe 
what 
> the inarticulate "Yeah, it's on television!" meant, that since it 
> wasn't even a cable show or a movie, it was okay by what they 
> considered reasonable standards.
> 
> I really should check out this show. Everybody always tells me it's 
> great--plus I think it covers years when I was in school so it's 
kind 
> of crazy for me to not even check it out. I wouldn't have 4-year-
olds 
> watching it, of course--they'd probably be bored with it anyway.
> 
> -m
>
sorry, wasn't I specific....the characters said "fuck" twice...shit, 
motherfucker, 

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:37:38 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:37:38 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <000301c87180$48735650$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fpgeb2+f58g@eGroups.com>

> 
> Seriously, I'm as out of step as you are in this regard, and proud 
of it!
>

In fact, I know several other sets of parents, some of whom don't let 
their kids watch dvds, videos, OR commercial television, and many of 
whom (lesbian, gay and straight parents) don't allow profanity, 
vulgarity or disrespectful language.

It's interesting to hear people's responses, but I'm going to go 
right on being "out of step" on these issues.

I'm tired of walking down the street and hearing teenagers swear at 
the top of their voices. I never fail to say "please stop! there are 
children around!", and frankly, I must look like a formidable little 
round mom because they never fail to look abashed, and apologize.

We also insist on civility, too. 

And frankly, we get amazed comments "your children are SO polite", "I 
can't believe how well-behaved your children are!" constantly..which 
frankly worries me. My kids are just kids. What are other kids' 
behavior like if our children's conduct elicits such amazement?

We do enforce and reinforce courtesy, and model it constantly in our 
behavior with each other....I think our children would faint if they 
heard my partner or I say something like "you're a big fat 
loser"...we just don't do name calling, and we suppress it when we 
hear it..not just with our children, but with any children or young 
people who are in our house.

And in regards to GLBT and GLAAD issues...I'm happy if the series 
portrays lgbt people in a positive light, but if there's profanity, 
disrespect, cynicism, name-calling and/or discourtesy rampant, it's 
not going to be shown in our house.

So continue on with the flames....I'm getting toasty warm.

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:40:18 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:40:18 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpa4ld+383f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpgeg2+2r8m@eGroups.com>

> Kemper now:
> The scene in which Susan is describing seems to come from an episode
> in which the lead Freak character (as opposed the lead Freak) is at 
a
>  girl friends house.  You get the idea that there is a lot of 
verbal,
> emotional abuse and perhaps neglect at the house.  It's hard to 
honor
> those who hurt you.
> 
> Kemper
>

And I would have had NO problem had the girl said "You are wrong. You 
are evil. You are despicable. You have hurt me, and abused me."

It's not that I'm condemning a girl who might use intemperate or 
disrespectful language towards an adult who was abusive or neglectful 
to her. I understand that she might do so.

But I want my kids to be empowered to confront someone clearly and 
energetically and not resort to name-calling.

Besides, there's no context in 5 minutes in a video store.

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 05:48:00 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:48:00 -0000
Subject: Being an eight
In-Reply-To: <fpfko8+s96o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpgeug+ppa8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
>
>> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> No flames, but I don't think that the view of men and women as
> instrinsically different (in general--there are always exceptions) 
is
> prejudice. I used to believe (in the Seventies!) that unisex 
clothing,
> names, education, and, especially, toys, would eradicate the
> differences between boys and girls and they would all just be
> children, free to be themselves. IOW, I thought that all the
> differences in behavior and attitude that we generally see between
> boys and girls (for example, a preference in girls for dolls, 
clothes,
> and make-up and in boys for cars, guns, and, these days, violent 
video
> games) were *all* the product of cultural conditioning.

I maintain that most of them are the result of cultural conditioning.
Those very few people who gave their children all the options could 
not protect their children from every other influence which 
reinforced rigid gender roles.
For example, all little girls you know, like pink? Right? And all the 
little boys want grey and brown and black? 
Is that culturally conditioned?
If it isn't, why is it that 100 years ago, it was boys wore pink and 
girls blue? And that men in other times and cultures had beautifully 
gorgeous and colorful clothing?



> 
> And, certainly, cultural conditioning does play a role. Just walk 
into
> any toy store or watch commercials geared to girls as opposed to 
those
> geared to boys. But my exposure to both boys and girls from infancy
> through the teenage years, and to men, has changed my mind. I don't
> mean that a girl *has* to like clothes and make-up. I almost never
> wear make-up, I wear my hair straight and long (it's almost as long 
as
> Dumbledore's; I'll give in and get a haircut soon since I'm tired of
> being strangled by my own hair in my sleep), and I wouldn't be 
caught
> dead in spike heels or pointed-toe shoes. But I don't like violence 
or
> obscenity or sports. I like quiet activities--reading, writing,
> conversation, trivia games, etc. The men I know, even the
> intellectuals, have different tastes and a different sense of humor
> (cruder, more appreciative of violence). There's something about 
that
> Y chromosome (a broken X!!--no offense intended, but that's how the
> mutation arose) that makes men and boys different. 

We must know different men and boys. I know a bunch of boys and men --
 gay and straight and everything between - who don't have different 
tastes or senses of humor



Boys (in general)
> mature later than girls both physically and emotionally. 

Agree...


> 
> That's not to say that we shouldn't do what we can to, say, avoid
> creating or feeding an appetite for violence in boys and at the same
> time, discouraging girls from focusing too much on their looks.
> (Anorexia seldom occurs in boys, though bulimia does. Henry VIII and
> his grandfather Edward IV were both bulimic, IIRC.)
> 
> But it isn't prejudice to see boys and girls as different. I don't
> know any teenage boys who take an hour to put on their make-up in 
the
> morning or any teenage girls who are obsessed with Doom 3 or 
whatever
> the latest violent video game is. And their tastes in TV and movies
> vary as well.

Well, of course, there are some girls who do love Doom and boys who 
WOULD like to wear makeup. But most of them find out very quickly..if 
they are boys, and want to do nails or anything girlish, that they 
will be taunted, ridiculed, teased, and ostracized. There are studies 
that show that there are physical assaults on boys who are perceived 
to be "gay" because they don't like sterotypically male stuff..so of 
course all the kids try to behave in the way that will get them 
accepted by their friends.....and not teased, ridiculed, assaulted, 
etc.


> 
> For that reason, books like the Harry Potter series, by a female
> author but with a male protagonist and therefore likely to be read 
by
> children and adolescents of both sexes are a good thing.
> Fundamentally, and I think that you and I agree here, Susan, boys 
and
> girls are people first, male or female second.
> 
> I do believe in encouraging children to be individuals, whether 
it's a
> boy who wants to read "Little Women" or a girl who wants to play 
with
> cars. And I do believe in discouraging violence, consumerism,
> selfishness, and whatever else can lead kids down the wrong path. 
But
> it's not easy. JKR is right, IMO, in depicting boys as hexing each
> other in the hallways and girls as contenting themselves with snide
> remarks (like Pansy Parkinson's comments on Hermione's looks).
> 
> Boys *are* different from girls and men from women, and sometimes 
it's
> hard to relate to the opposite sex. Part of that results from 
cultural
> conditioning, a different set of values for boys and girls (still 
true
> today just as it was in medieval times or the nineteenth century), 
but
> some of it is genetic. And, once the child hits puberty, you have
> hormones as well as chromosomes to contend with.
> 
> I think that even if we could somehow remove false conceptions of
> masculinity and femininity (which might involve moving to North
> Labrador), most of them would still develop "masculine" 
or "feminine"
> interests on their own because their brains are programmed 
differently.
> 
> Carol, asking people please not to flame her for holding opinions
> based on her personal experience with people of both sexes
>


But my original objection to the joke was that it put men down..I 
object to all jokes that are disparaging towards men or women....

Susan




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Feb 20 06:37:42 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:37:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgdko+g4km@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8738b$18ce70d0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

Hi,

I can't believe Kemper wrote:
| > Maybe shows should be played based on moral enrichment, like 'Freaks
| > and Geeks'.

<Snip>

You responded:
| No, I don't think I was "embracing ignorance through 
| censorship before 
| seeking knowledge"..I was responding SPECIFICALLY to the language and 
| dialogue on the screen while I was in the store.

Good for you!  I seriously am at a loss to see how a show with unacceptable
language and treatment of parental figures can be called a show with "moral
enrichment".  Gimmee a break!  Maybe I'm just getting old.  I can't even
understand half of the terminology young people use nowadays.

Hon, we may not agree on everything, but we do agree on what language is
acceptable and what is not.  Stick to your guns!

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Going back to her little "square" world.)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Feb 20 06:49:34 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:49:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <000001c8738b$18ce70d0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <000101c8738c$c10560f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

OOOOOOOOPPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was supposed to be a private message to susan....my apologies.

But, since it ended up here, I will say to Kemper that you are welcome to
your opinion, friend.  I know you're a decent person.  But I truly can't see
how a show which is supposed to be "morally enriching" can have language
which is, IMO, immoral.

On that note, I will now bury my head under the pillow where it belongs and
listen to Old Time Radio dramas.

Cheers,

Lee 





From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 07:07:37 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:07:37 -0000
Subject: radical message about gender roles
Message-ID: <fpgjjq+vuki@eGroups.com>

I have specific and explict permission to post this article here...

hocker of the Day: Boys Are People, Too
Posted by: Jill in Feminism, Gender, Sex 
A new study shows that most teenage boys view teenage girls as actual 
human beings, not simple sex toys:

The stereotype of the 16-year-old boy is that he has sex on the 
brain. But a fascinating new report suggests that boys are motivated 
more by love and a desire to form real relationships with the girls 
they date.

The report, published in this month's Journal of Adolescence, paints 
a far different picture of teen boys than the stereotype of 
testosterone-fueled youth. Psychology researchers from the State 
University of New York at Oswego surveyed 105 10th-grade boys whose 
average age was about 16. The boys, most of whom said they were 
heterosexual, were given surveys asking them to select various 
reasons why they asked girls out, dated and pursued physical 
relationships. Most of the boys had dating experience, and about 40 
percent were sexually active.

The boys were asked their reasons for dating and were allowed to mark 
more than one answer. Notably, being physically attracted to someone 
wasn't the primary motivation they gave for dating. More than 80 
percent of the boys noted "I really liked the person.'' Physical 
attraction and wanting to get to know someone better were the second 
most popular answers.

Among the boys who had been sexually active, physical desire and 
wanting to know what sex feels like were among the top three reasons 
they pursued sex. However, the boys were equally likely to say they 
pursued sex because they loved their partner. Interestingly, only 14 
percent said they sought sex because they wanted to lose their 
virginity, and 9 percent did so to fit in with friends.

The New York Times headline-writers, unfortunately, aren't quite as 
evolved as the 16-year-olds in the study ? they titled the 
piece "Inside the Mind of the Boy Dating Your Daughter." Perhaps I'm 
being nitpicky, but this kind of language about dating always creeps 
me out. "The Boy" is an individual person who is encroaching on your 
property; the whole thing rubs me the wrong way. But that aside, the 
article is an interesting read, and I'm with this guy:

"Let's give boys more credit,'' said study author Andrew Smiler, an 
assistant professor of psychology at the university. "Although some 
of them are just looking for sex, most boys are looking for a 
relationship. The kids we know mostly aren't like this horrible 
stereotype. They are generally interested in dating and getting to 
know their partners.'' 

And this is another "thank feminism" moment. The idea that boys just 
want sex (and girls don't) is at its heart conservative and 
essentialist ? and it's a stereotype that lays the groundwork for 
requirements of "femininity" that inevitably involve refusing sex 
until a big fat diamond enters the picture, and bartering virginity 
for financial and social security. It's not feminists who argue that 
boys are mindless animals only interested in sex; no, that argument 
comes from your anti-feminist social conservatives, who manage to 
inject it into abstinence-only sex education:

One curriculum teaches that men are sexually aggressive and lack deep 
emotions. In a chart of the top five women's and men's basic needs, 
the curriculum lists "sexual fulfillment" and "physical 
attractiveness" as two of the top five "needs" in the men's 
section. "Affection," "Conversation," "Honesty and Openness," 
and "Family Commitment" are listed only as women's needs.

The curriculum teaches: "A male is usually less discriminating about 
those to whom he is sexually attracted. . . . Women usually have 
greater intuitive awareness of how to develop a loving relationship."

The same curriculum tells participants: "While a man needs little or 
no preparation for sex, a woman often needs hours of emotional and 
mental preparation.

(Source: The Waxman Report on abstinence-only sex education). 

In the conservative heyday that never actually was, women had to 
trick those over-sexed, brutish men into marriage by withholding sex. 
Fathers had to "protect" their daughters from boys who might disgrace 
them. And women who gave it up too easily were shameful sluts, while 
the boys they did it with were just, well, boys. 

Now, boys are expected ? and perhaps more importantly, allowed ? to 
have feelings. That certainly isn't universal, and there's still a 
whole lot of poisonous rhetoric around masculinity, but feminism has 
created a slightly larger space for boys and men to be people instead 
of masculine charicatures. I think that's a good thing. The right-
wing Culture Warriors aren't so much on board. In the conservative 
Golden Age, men didn't have many choices. As the primary bread-
winners, they were forced into jobs that paid the bills and sustained 
their families; now that two-earner families are extremely common, 
men have more career opportunities and greater job flexibility. 
Further, marriage can be acceptably delayed until both partners are 
done with school and have their careers established, meaning that men 
don't have to take the first paying gig that comes along. Oh, and in 
those Golden '50s, one in four families lived in poverty. 

In her book How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America, Cristina Page 
details the many ways that feminism has helped fathers. This passage 
in particular seems relevant:

Fathers' increased involvement starts at the very beginning of their 
children's lives: 90 percent of dads are present in the delivery room 
(compared to 10 percent in 1970). 
 Dads today are even more 
affectionate with their children: 60 percent hug their school-age 
kids every day, and 79 percent tell their children they love them 
several times a week. 


All of this seems to have created a revolution in how men see 
themselves. Seventy percent of dads feel they would be just as 
effective staying home and raising children as their wives. The 
Gallup organization found that one in four men would actually like to 
stay home and take care of the house and family. Spike TV, the TV 
network for men, surveyed 1,300 men and found that the number 
considering staying home is even higher; the poll found that 56 
percent of men would consider becoming stay-at-home dads. As the 
Spike TV pollsters explain, "This is the first generation of men to 
feel the full effect of women entering the workforce. As women have 
become partners in the workplace, men are now adjusting to a more 
equal status at home." And record numbers of men are choosing to stay 
at home too. Today, statistics show that roughly 2.5 million dads 
nationwide stay at home to be their children's primary caretaker. 

The unheralded result of women entering the workforce has been the 
rise of the real family man and the making of the more devoted 
father. It is to the point that hte vast majority of men today, 72 
percent, say they would sacrifice pay and job opportunities for more 
time with their families. Spike TV found that most men would choose 
attending their kids' sporting event over an important work 
obligation. The Spike TV pollsters explain, "There's been a paradigm 
shift. Men want involvement with kids. Even with infants, they get up 
at night. It was NEVER like this before. They're taking parenting 
seriously. New responsibilities with kids and in homes are enriching 
men's lives. They're excited by it, and proud."

Is it any shock that dads like these are raising sons who see women 
and girls as human beings instead of sex objects or servants? 

There is still lots of feminist work to be done with men and boys. 
Masculine stereotypes still do all kinds of harm to men and women and 
girls and boys alike, and there's a good argument to be made for the 
idea that men are much further behind women when it comes to 
embracing feminist ideals. But feminism has had some successes, and 
it's been good for all involved ? this is just one example of that. 
There's still a long way to go, but hopefully studies like this will 
serve as reminders of who actually has the interests of human beings 
in mind, and who is solely dedicated to a dogma that doesn't fit into 
most peoples' realities or ideals.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, February





From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 07:14:04 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:14:04 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <000101c8738c$c10560f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fpgjvs+4ljo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing 
Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> OOOOOOOOPPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This was supposed to be a private message to susan....my apologies.
> 
> But, since it ended up here, I will say to Kemper that you are 
welcome to
> your opinion, friend.  I know you're a decent person.  But I truly 
can't see
> how a show which is supposed to be "morally enriching" can have 
language
> which is, IMO, immoral.
> 
> On that note, I will now bury my head under the pillow where it 
belongs and
> listen to Old Time Radio dramas.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee
>


For those of us old, old, Harry Potter for Grownups fans, let me 
recommend mymusicmaker.com....it has music from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 
60s, and 70s...you can pick songs and add them to a cd for a charge...

I ordered a cd with songs from my childhood (50s in the U.S.)...
beep beep (the little nash rambler song), yakety yak, the little blue 
man, the witch doctor, the purple people eater, the itsy bitsy teeny 
weeny yellow polka dot bikini, tell laura I love her, teen angel, 
calendar girl, and more totally silly stuff...

My kids just love them.....

So, I've totally dated myself, who else remembers these songs?

Susan




From drdara at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 13:12:05 2008
From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:12:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
Message-ID: <628042.2066.qm@web65501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I love those songs, Tell Laura I love her is soooo sweet, I listened to alot of different music growing up.
Danielle


----- Original Message ----
From: susanmcgee48176 <Schlobin at aol.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:14:04 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter@ yahoogroups. com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing 
Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> OOOOOOOOPPS! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!
> 
> This was supposed to be a private message to susan....my apologies.
> 
> But, since it ended up here, I will say to Kemper that you are 
welcome to
> your opinion, friend. I know you're a decent person. But I truly 
can't see
> how a show which is supposed to be "morally enriching" can have 
language
> which is, IMO, immoral.
> 
> On that note, I will now bury my head under the pillow where it 
belongs and
> listen to Old Time Radio dramas.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee
>

For those of us old, old, Harry Potter for Grownups fans, let me 
recommend mymusicmaker. com....it has music from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 
60s, and 70s...you can pick songs and add them to a cd for a charge...

I ordered a cd with songs from my childhood (50s in the U.S.)...
beep beep (the little nash rambler song), yakety yak, the little blue 
man, the witch doctor, the purple people eater, the itsy bitsy teeny 
weeny yellow polka dot bikini, tell laura I love her, teen angel, 
calendar girl, and more totally silly stuff...

My kids just love them.....

So, I've totally dated myself, who else remembers these songs?

Susan





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jnferr at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 13:35:16 2008
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:35:16 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgeb2+f58g@eGroups.com>
References: <000301c87180$48735650$67a4a8c0@FRODO> <fpgeb2+f58g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40802200535k6c98d808jb3cf273caa709918@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/19/08, susanmcgee48176 <Schlobin at aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Seriously, I'm as out of step as you are in this regard, and proud
> of it!
> >
>
> In fact, I know several other sets of parents, some of whom don't let
> their kids watch dvds, videos, OR commercial television, and many of
> whom (lesbian, gay and straight parents) don't allow profanity,
> vulgarity or disrespectful language.
>
> It's interesting to hear people's responses, but I'm going to go
> right on being "out of step" on these issues.
>
> I'm tired of walking down the street and hearing teenagers swear at
> the top of their voices. I never fail to say "please stop! there are
> children around!", and frankly, I must look like a formidable little
> round mom because they never fail to look abashed, and apologize.
>
> We also insist on civility, too.
>
> And frankly, we get amazed comments "your children are SO polite", "I
> can't believe how well-behaved your children are!" constantly..which
> frankly worries me. My kids are just kids. What are other kids'
> behavior like if our children's conduct elicits such amazement?
>
> We do enforce and reinforce courtesy, and model it constantly in our
> behavior with each other....I think our children would faint if they
> heard my partner or I say something like "you're a big fat
> loser"...we just don't do name calling, and we suppress it when we
> hear it..not just with our children, but with any children or young
> people who are in our house.
>
> And in regards to GLBT and GLAAD issues...I'm happy if the series
> portrays lgbt people in a positive light, but if there's profanity,
> disrespect, cynicism, name-calling and/or discourtesy rampant, it's
> not going to be shown in our house.
>
> So continue on with the flames....I'm getting toasty warm.


montims:

I'm not flaming, and I'm not judging, and I admire people who make a stand
on something and stick to it, but I can't really understand this particular
stand (though I will, of course, defend your right to have it!)  Does it
really matter what words they hear, or are used in the household, as long as
the general impression is one of love and harmony?  Does hearing unpleasant
characters in a tv programme swear automatically make a child swear?  Does
watching a child shoot up a school make all children shoot up schools?  I
would have thought the moral grounding would lead the child to be disgusted
by certain behaviour, and not want to emulate it...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 20 15:41:34 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:41:34 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <000101c8738c$c10560f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fphhne+c5bg@eGroups.com>

Lee Storm
> OOOOOOOOPPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This was supposed to be a private message to susan....my apologies.
> 
> But, since it ended up here, I will say to Kemper that you are 
welcome to
> your opinion, friend.  I know you're a decent person.  But I truly 
can't see
> how a show which is supposed to be "morally enriching" can have 
language
> which is, IMO, immoral.

Magpie:
Gee, I can. Easily. I completely agree that there's certain language 
that's appropriate around children, and that children should be spoken 
to respectfully and learn that's the way to speak to others. Many 
children today would still be considered very polite. I'm frankly 
confused at the idea of the word "motherfucker" or "shit" appearing in 
a network TV show, since that word isn't allowed on network TV (well, 
shit is in certain contexts but only rarely). Are we sure the store 
clerk wasn't just wrong about what was playing? Because the whole 
point of "it was on (network) TV" is that it can't contain that kind 
of language. Stupid yes--motherfucker, no.

However, I completely disagree that if a movie happens to contain bad 
language, probably because that kind of language is what a certain 
character would use, or because it's the language the writer thinks is 
most appropriate for the story, then the story can't be morally 
enriching or just enriching because it's good art. Why shouldn't it 
be? There were many words I never heard in my house growing up, and 
still wouldn't use in many situations, but as an adult I don't 
consider a story worthless just because it contains that kind of 
language. Great writing can integrate bad language--sometimes the bad 
word is part of what makes a line just right or really funny.

Ironically, I was watching a Law & Order the other night and found 
myself giggling because a character said some expression--I can't 
remember what it was--but it substituted "freakin'" for "fuckin'" in 
ways just never would have been in real life. It took me out of the 
show for a second because the language just sounded unnatural. 

But then, network TV for years now has been embracing their 
limitations and coming up with fun meta substitutions. Sometimes they 
just bleep things, and as an audience member it reads as whatever word 
it would be without pulling me out of the story because I know I'm 
watching network TV. That said, I also remember Schindler's List being 
on network TV and they must have gotten special permission to run it 
as it was made because it had swears in it. I think many people 
consider Schindler's List to be morally enriching despite it including 
immoral things.

And while I'm rambling, it's kind of interesting that F&G is a Judd 
Apatow production, because I was recently listening to the commentary 
track on Superbad. Judd brought his 9 year old daughter to the 
commentary and so ordered all the people there to keep their comments 
clean. He also seemed to be covering his daughter's eyes and ears when 
anything inappropriate on screen--which was a lot! Anyway, Jonah Hill 
slipped up and swore, and was scolded, and it ended up in rather a big 
fight (if it wasn't staged). Basically, Hill told him that he had come 
here to do a commentary for a raunchy comedy that was inappropriate 
for children, and their commentary was going to reflect that, and why 
on earth did he decide to bring his daughter? Apatow shot back that 
Hill needed to figure out a different way of being funny and learn not 
to swear when it wasn't appropriate. Hill's position was that he could 
do that, but that the commentary of this movie was obviously not a 
place where it wasn't appropriate.

Apatow ended up just leaving, and I have to say I was relieved. 
Although of course I do think adults need to be able to control 
themselves and wouldn't have trouble doing it myself, and I didn't 
particularly need swearing in the commentary, I did think it was 
completely out of line and unfair to me as a consumer for this guy to 
bring his daughter to a movie she wasn't old enough to see and then 
try to direct the commentary towards 9-year-olds. Even if nobody used 
bad language, the commentary was about inappropriate things anyway, 
because that's what was going on in the movie. I can't help but think 
Apatow would have been telling them to be quiet over and over and it 
was just nerve-wracking. It's an R-rated movie, I accepted that when I 
rented it, stop making me nervous about what your daughter is or isn't 
seeing. 

Susan:
And I would have had NO problem had the girl said "You are wrong. You
are evil. You are despicable. You have hurt me, and abused me."

Magpie:
I would have had a huge problem with that. My problem would have been 
that that was completely unnatural language for the character. Drama 
isn't always going to be about teaching people to respond 
energetically and clearly. Sometimes it's going to just show 
inarticulate rage or reflect the certain aspects of life. (And a child 
growing up in an abusive home would of course have probably learned 
name-calling at the knee of the person they're angry at.) The thing 
about all those old clean movies is that allowing stronger language 
came along with allowing all sorts of other things that were 
considered morally objectionable about life according to some people.

Susan:
So continue on with the flames....I'm getting toasty warm.

Magpie:
I think this conversation definitely still shows people responding 
clearly and energetically rather than resorting to name-calling. I 
haven't seen any flaming.

-m









From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Feb 20 18:02:52 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:02:52 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgjvs+4ljo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c873ea$cfcfe930$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

{Susan wrote]:
| ... the little blue man, ...

[Lee]:
<ROTFL!>  Well, I grew up with 1960's music, but I dearly love the music of
the 30s and 40s and some of the non-duop stuff of the 50s.  The Little Blue
Man was one I was only introduced to last year and I totally fell in love
with it and others that Betty did.  I have an ever-growing music collection,
very eclectic in nature, and was glad to add Little Blue Man to it. :-)

Thanks for making my day! "I Wuv You! :-)

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 20 18:56:32 2008
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:56:32 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802200535k6c98d808jb3cf273caa709918@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fpht50+p204@eGroups.com>

Susan wrote:

And frankly, we get amazed comments "your children are SO polite", "I
can't believe how well-behaved your children are!" constantly..which
frankly worries me. My kids are just kids. What are other kids'
behavior like if our children's conduct elicits such amazement?

Mary Ann:

You go, girl. :)  I also get comments from complete stangers about my 
well-behaved and polite children, including the ASD 7-year-old who 
has the patience, frustration level and tact of a really annoyed 2-
year-old.  Seeing as we differ on language-around-children 
situations, and, based on observations of children in different 
situations, I believe that children who behave well in public do so 
because they know what is expected of them in different situations.  
I have a friend who has young children and swears regularly.  Her 
kids pick up her language BUT they NEVER use such language outside 
their own home; they know that people other than their immediate 
family members may be offended by such language and they respect 
that.  At my place of work it's not unusual for the football-playing 
boys (soccer to plebs ;) ) on the school playground to shout 
out "bloody hell, good shot!" or some such, realise that a staff 
member is within hearing range, and apologise.  We gently remind the 
boys to mind their language and then praise them highly for 
correcting themselves.  IMO the fact that the boys identify their 
improper behaviour and correct themselves without adult intervention 
is far more important than the occasional swear word they let loose.

Different parenting methods; same results.  This is one of the many 
reasons why little people fascinate me so, and why I love working 
with them. 

As for the behaviour of other children...aargh.  I work mostly with 
reception-year students (4 and 5 year olds) and some of these kids 
have had little or even no discipline before setting foot in school.  
The trick?  Firmness and consistency.  The kids soon learn not to 
mess with Mrs. Jennings, but these same kids who need the most 
disciplining often come up to me and give me hugs.  Go figure.

Mary Ann, another formidable little round mom, and a card-carrying 
member of Tabouli's Sinister Social Scientist Club





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 19:16:20 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:16:20 -0000
Subject: Snape's death scene WAS Re: Sweeney Todd?  Bloody Hell!
In-Reply-To: <fpg0c9+rhvs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fphua4+9qvh@eGroups.com>

Carol:
> > Well, they'll need to make it clear that he's killed by the snake
and not by a spell, and he has to release the memories and ask Harry
to look into his eyes, so I don't see how they'll avoid showing the
blood. 
> 
> Kemper now:
> I wish the movies were accurate to the books. As they aren't, I
think there will be a spliced, mutated version to give the audience
the relevant info.  Here's how I see it happening:
> Snape is given mortal wound either on/off screen.
> Harry rolls up on him as he lays dieing.
> Snape Legilimens Harry who then sees the relevent memories of Snape 
> Yes, I realize that is not how the spell works but since when are the 
> movies canon?  Something like the above would happen to save time in 
> the movie while also moving the plot along relatively smoothly.  
> Besides, Movie!Snape is more smarmy and much less vile to Movie!Harry 
> for there to be a need for much forgiveness.  Sure, Movie!DD will die 
> by Movie!Snape's wand, but a quick little memory of,
> DD: I only have a year to live, it's okay to kill me if it has to 
> happen.
> Snape: I don't really want to.
> DD:  I'm not asking, I'm telling
> 
> and, abrakadabra, movie magic transfiguration.
> 
> The power of the scene will be lost.  But that's par for the course.
> 
> Kemper, who looks forward to the HP movie remake in 2022 (25th 
> anniversary of SS)
>
Carol responds:
I really hope that you're wrong, if only because we also need to
discover Snape's motivation, see Snape trapping the curse in DD's
hand, get an explanation for the doe Patronus, and, most important,
have Harry understand that he has to sacrifice himself. Anyway, I
doubt they'd sacrifice something as cinematically powerful as the
dying Snape releasing his memories. No doubt they'll condense the
Pensieve scenes as they did in GoF, but I think they'll have them. At
least, I think it would be a serious mistake if they didn't.

And it would be much easier to show memories coming out of Snape's
head and being collected in a conjured vial (CGI) than to show Snape
Legilimensing Harry, which wouldn't work, anyway, since it's *Snape's*
memories that need to be revealed and Harry is no Legilimens.

BTW, I'm also looking forward to a remake of the whole series ca.
2022, but I may be too old to enjoy them!

Carol, who thinks that Steve Kloves has always been a DDM!Snape
believer and will make sure that Snape is redeemed onscreen




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 19:24:01 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:24:01 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgdko+g4km@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fphuoh+q6nc@eGroups.com>

Susan wrote:
> No, I don't think I was "embracing ignorance through censorship
before seeking knowledge"..I was responding SPECIFICALLY to the
language and dialogue on the screen while I was in the store.
> 
> And, actually, I have been in several different video stores every
other month for about 8 years...AND, I have NEVER seen such language
or scenes on the screen. Most video stores are very careful just to
show family friendly videos.

Carol responds:
Hi, Susan. I agree with you. I think that any video store that shows
potentially offensive material and then treats a customer
discourteously is asking to go out of buisiness. I've never been in a
video store that showed anything beyond PG-13 (or a TV program as
opposed to a movie, for that matter). I'd write to the management,
politely, of course, and if I didn't receive a polite apology in
return, I'd boycott the store--and inform the management that they had
lost my business permanently.

Not censorship, Kemper, just respect for customers with children and
common sense.

Carol, fearing that common courtesy is a lost art, along with
conversation, penmanship, and balancing your checkbook without a
calculator




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 19:58:52 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:58:52 -0000
Subject: Messages in the wrong place (Was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <000101c8738c$c10560f0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fpi0ps+emke@eGroups.com>

Lee wrote:
>
> OOOOOOOOPPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This was supposed to be a private message to susan....my apologies.
> 
> But, since it ended up here, <snip rest of sentence with apologies
for the resulting incoherence>

Carol responds:

Funny thing, but I've had the opposite problem lately, and a whole
thread on whether we still need to use <spoiler> in discussing DH,
along with a post on Remus Lupin in relation to Valentine's Day and
one on Harry and "Hermonie" were somehow sent to my Yahoo e-mail
address instead of posting at HPfGu. I've mentioned the problem to the
List Elves, but I'm curious to see whether anyone else has had similar
problems.

Carol, who has sent messages to the wrong address a time or two and
knows how Lee feels





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 20:14:37 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:14:37 -0000
Subject: Silly old songs (Was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpgjvs+4ljo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpi1nd+ilkv@eGroups.com>

Susan: 
> For those of us old, old, Harry Potter for Grownups fans, let me 
> recommend mymusicmaker.com....it has music from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 
> 60s, and 70s...you can pick songs and add them to a cd for a charge...
> 
> I ordered a cd with songs from my childhood (50s in the U.S.)...
beep beep (the little nash rambler song), yakety yak, the little blue
man, the witch doctor, the purple people eater, the itsy bitsy teeny
weeny yellow polka dot bikini, tell laura I love her, teen angel, 
calendar girl, and more totally silly stuff...
> 
> My kids just love them.....
> 
> So, I've totally dated myself, who else remembers these songs?

Carol responds:

Oh, yes. I remember those songs (except "The Little Blue Man").
Do you also remember that "Teen Angel" was banned in Britain for being
too violent or some such thing? (And, certainly, it's a disturbing
song, about as different from "My friend, the witch doctor, he told me
what to say . . . he said say 'ooh ee ooh ah ah, ting tang walla walla
bing bang'" as possible). BTW, I think you should add "Love Potion
Number Nine" to your list. It fits right in with "the witch
Doctor"--and Harry Potter.

Carol, now trying to get "Tell Laura I lo-ove her, tell Laura I
nee-eed her, tell Laura not to cry, my love for her will never die"
out of her head




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Feb 20 20:41:53 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:41:53 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802200535k6c98d808jb3cf273caa709918@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fpi3ah+tp6b@eGroups.com>

> montims:
> 
> I'm not flaming, and I'm not judging, and I admire people who make 
a stand
> on something and stick to it, but I can't really understand this 
particular
> stand (though I will, of course, defend your right to have it!)  
Does it
> really matter what words they hear, or are used in the household, 
as long as
> the general impression is one of love and harmony?  Does hearing 
unpleasant
> characters in a tv programme swear automatically make a child 
swear?  Does
> watching a child shoot up a school make all children shoot up 
schools?  I
> would have thought the moral grounding would lead the child to be 
disgusted
> by certain behaviour, and not want to emulate it...
> 
> 
I don't feel flamed or judged.

The first issue for me -- why we don't have commercial television...
it's the dailyness of it. Some parents have a filter, or rigidly 
monitor what their kids are watching. This is not a value thing, but 
I'd just as soon do without it. Otherwise, the kids are cheating, and 
we're police officers all the time. I feel that most of what is on 
television, and most of the commercials, promote values that I don't 
like. Yes, violence, yes constant explicit sexual references, but 
also banality, cynicism, blase-ness, lack of enthusiasm, boredom, 
etc. etc. Or the only way you can enjoy life is to party all the time.
It seeps into kids' imagination.

Re: profanity..it's a thin line between "gosh, look at the fucking 
mess I made" and "fuck you." 

I don't want to hear it from my children; I don't want them using it 
to each other, and I don't want ANYONE wincing when my child opens 
his or her mouth.

As you say, we all have different parenting values.

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Thu Feb 21 04:39:07 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:39:07 -0000
Subject: Poul Anderson
Message-ID: <fpiv9b+ojs9@eGroups.com>

Has anyone else read his work?

I've always been a fan of the Queen of Air and Darkness, and just 
read "House Rule".....thought about the Leaky Cauldron...anyone else 
read this work?

Susan




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Feb 21 12:23:25 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:23:25 -0000
Subject: Poul Anderson
In-Reply-To: <fpiv9b+ojs9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpjqft+llf2@eGroups.com>

 "susanmcgee48176" <Schlobin at ...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone else read his work?
> 
> I've always been a fan of the Queen of Air and Darkness, and just 
> read "House Rule".....thought about the Leaky Cauldron...anyone 
else 
> read this work?


Potioncat:
I used to read his books all the time. I hate to admit it was decades 
ago!---waited eagerly for the next one, but didn't have a group to 
discuss them with. I did have a companion who was just as bookish. We 
used to discuss them all the time. The books were full of puns, JKR 
reminds me of him a bit.

I remember one that involves a boy who doesn't seem to have any 
magic. They think he's a "Mundane". 

Potioncat....who knows she read Poul Anderson, but is now wondering 
if she's mixed him up with a different author.




From drdara at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 01:07:22 2008
From: drdara at yahoo.com (danielle dassero)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trelawney
Message-ID: <108842.46452.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I was listening to GOF and it was the 1st divination lesson of the year. And while listening I had a thought. Trelawney thought Harry was born midwinter, we all know he wasn't, but we know who was. Tom Riddle was born in midwinter.  I wonder if everytime Trelawney was reading Harry she was actually reading voldie's soul.
Well it was just a thought lol

Danielle


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping



From Schlobin at aol.com  Fri Feb 22 05:33:42 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:33:42 -0000
Subject: Poul Anderson
In-Reply-To: <fpjqft+llf2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fplmrm+1f74@eGroups.com>

> 
> Potioncat:
> I used to read his books all the time. I hate to admit it was decades 
> ago!---waited eagerly for the next one, but didn't have a group to 
> discuss them with. I did have a companion who was just as bookish. We 
> used to discuss them all the time. The books were full of puns, JKR 
> reminds me of him a bit.
> 
> I remember one that involves a boy who doesn't seem to have any 
> magic. They think he's a "Mundane". 
> 
> Potioncat....who knows she read Poul Anderson, but is now wondering 
> if she's mixed him up with a different author.
>
Well, we have about ten boxes of books in storage, and we exhume one of 
thme now and then...this one had my Poul Anderson books, but also 
several from my partner..and I hadn't read some of them....it is an 
incredibly wonderful thing (at my age) to find some very magical, very 
brilliant writing that one has not read before!

Maybe there's a list serve where I can go and discuss him...right now 
we're watching Robin Hood Men in Tights...

Susan






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 16:00:49 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:00:49 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgdfp+hdph@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpmrjh+lkrs@eGroups.com>


>> Kemper now:
>> Your children have heard profanity, how do you know that they do
>> not experiment with the language as well? 
>> I ask that with all respect.  ...
>> I loved my mom (still do) and would never dream about swearing within
>> earshot of her back then.  Similarly, maybe your children love and
>> respect you enough not to swear in your presence.  

> Susan:
> They may experiment with profanity. But the fact is that they DO 
> respect me too much to do it in my presence, and guess what....then 
> they have the ABILITY to turn it OFF..unlike some young people I have 
> seen lately who have lost jobs because they cannot seem to turn off 
> their gutter mouths in a job interview or on the job.

Kemper now:
I could have guessed that and am not arguing their ability to turn it
off and on.
Older people are also fired for their gutter mouths.  Lack of tact is
found throughout the life spectrum and is not restricted to youth.

Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:06:06 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:06:06 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgdko+g4km@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn2ue+gl25@eGroups.com>


> > Kemper
> > ... I think my problem is that the situation as presented
> > seems to embrace ignorance though censorship before seeking
> > knowledge: guilty until proven innocent.  

> Susan: 
> No, I don't think I was "embracing ignorance through censorship before 
> seeking knowledge"..I was responding SPECIFICALLY to the language 
> and dialogue on the screen while I was in the store.
> 
> And, actually, I have been in several different video stores every 
> other month for about 8 years...
> AND, I have NEVER seen such language or 
> scenes on the screen. Most video stores are very careful just to  
> show family friendly videos.

Kemper now:
It's a family show. I question whether you actually watched it.  Did
the clerk give you the name?  Perhaps they lied to you or you misheard
the name.  

Still, it sounds as though you reacted, responding would be seeking
knowledge (of course, perhaps the clerks weren't very eloquent). 
Censoring is a knee jerk reaction... which I'm all for if porn was
being shown in the area of young kids, same goes for rated R or M
movie/shows. 

Kemper




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:18:45 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:18:45 -0000
Subject: Trelawney
In-Reply-To: <108842.46452.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fpn3m5+8j5f@eGroups.com>

danielle dassero wrote:
>
> I was listening to GOF and it was the 1st divination lesson of the
year. And while listening I had a thought. Trelawney thought Harry was
born midwinter, we all know he wasn't, but we know who was. Tom Riddle
was born in midwinter.  I wonder if everytime Trelawney was reading
Harry she was actually reading voldie's soul.
> Well it was just a thought lol

Carol responds:
Well, technically December 31 isn't midwinter (winter begins December
21), but I think you're right. Saturn is the ruling planet for
Capricorn (December 22 to January 19).  The diminutive stature and
dark hair fit Harry himself, as does the misfortune early in life, but
the birth date fits Tom Riddle, who also has dark hair and misfortune
early in life.

Interestingly, the description also fits the young Severus Snape, who
was born January 9 (again, not midwinter but fitting the dates for
Capricorn), had dark hair, was small and scrawny as a boy, and had
misfortune early in life (not being orphaned like the other two but
living in relative poverty with an abusive father).

So, I agree, sort of. Trelawney often "sees" things but misinterprets
them. In this case, however, she was applying her knowledge of
astrology to Harry and getting it wrong. It wasn't that she was seeing
the Voldie soul bit, just that what she knew of Harry seemed to fit
with Capricorn, not with Leo.

I don't know much about astrology, but it would be interesting to see
how having Saturn as a ruling planet might (theoretically) have
affected the lives of Severus and Tom. (There's a superstition about
being born on December 31 being associated with bad luck or evil,
IIRC--no offense to anyone with that birth date!) If anyone wants to
follow up on this topic, I'd be interested--not that I believe in
astrology, but I think that JKR may have researched it, along with
alchemy and Tarot, for the HBP books.

Carol, who has yet to figure out why people refer to Christmas and New
Year's as occurring in midwinter when winter has barely begun




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:18:58 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:18:58 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgdnp+rvsb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn3mi+gstl@eGroups.com>


> > Magpie
> > So yeah, I'm sure the store has a policy of nothing R-rated at 
> > least, 
> > and quite possibly nothing PG-13 rated, but they're not going to be 
> > cutting out something like Freaks and Geeks because it includes 
> > teenagers fighting within network TV guidelines. Which was maybe 
> > what 
> > the inarticulate "Yeah, it's on television!" meant, that since it 
> > wasn't even a cable show or a movie, it was okay by what they 
> > considered reasonable standards.

> Susan:
> sorry, wasn't I specific....the characters said "fuck" twice...shit, 
> motherfucker, 

Kemper now:
You weren't watching Freaks and Geeks.  
FaG was a network show.  I know you don't choose to watch tv, but
networks do not allow that language.  HBO and SHO, however, do, but
those are subscription cable   stations.
 
Here's a link about FaG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freaks_and_geeks
and another that has better pictures of the actors:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0193676/

If after checking the links you still believe that it was the show you
were watching, then... 

Kemper





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:26:08 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:26:08 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn3mi+gstl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn440+rab3@eGroups.com>

Susan wrote:
> > sorry, wasn't I specific....the characters said "fuck"
twice...shit, motherfucker, 
> 
> Kemper now:
> You weren't watching Freaks and Geeks.  
> FaG was a network show.  I know you don't choose to watch tv, but
networks do not allow that language.  HBO and SHO, however, do, but
those are subscription cable stations.
<snip>
> If after checking the links you still believe that it was the show
you were watching, then... 

Carol responds:
Regardless of the name of the show, you agree that Susan had the right
to complain that a program with such language was being aired in a
video store, right? And that "It's on television" was hardly an
adequate response to Susan's request to change the channel. (Whatever
happened to "the customer is always right"?)

Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of the
show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate content




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Feb 22 18:36:59 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:36:59 -0500
Subject: Clean Language ( was Re: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpmrjh+lkrs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c87581$e916ddc0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

| Kemper now:
| I could have guessed that and am not arguing their ability to turn it
| off and on.
| Older people are also fired for their gutter mouths.  Lack of tact is
| found throughout the life spectrum and is not restricted to youth.

[Lee]:
Yes, I can accept that, but I can also say that if they were trained from a
young age as to the acceptability or lack of acceptability when it comes to
language, they would be more likely to know how to "turn it on and off".

What really distresses me is that such language is considered acceptable and
used liberally in the military training.  Even when I witnessed a Civil Air
Patrol drill, the sergeant used an expletive practically every other word
and liberal use of the "f" word.  If I were a parent with a child in CAP, I
would not hesitate to have words with the sergeant about such language.

It doesn't make men out of boys, as some would say it does.  It doesn't
sound cool, macho, intimidating or any of that twaddle.  It says to me that
such sergeants and trainers need to learn proper use of the English language
and teach such usage to others.  The whole "raw" language approach doesn't
fly for me.

Smile,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:38:29 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:38:29 -0000
Subject: Youth today was Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgeb2+f58g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn4r5+lkff@eGroups.com>


> Susan:
> ...
> I'm tired of walking down the street and hearing teenagers swear at 
> the top of their voices. I never fail to say "please stop! there are 
> children around!", and frankly, I must look like a formidable little 
> round mom because they never fail to look abashed, and apologize.

Kemper now:
I work with youth.  You might be surprised to know that many youth are
not aware of their surroundings, of who may be listening.  Sometimes
I'll unintentionally hear conversations that I shouldn't hear as they
would get in trouble.  I just look at them until they feel their being
watched.  When they look at me, they know their busted. 

The youth you come across (and by the way, where do you live that this
happens all the time?!) are prolly every bit as oblivious.  Which is
why when you call them on it (yeah you! it takes a village!!!) they
are humbled.  


> Susan:
> And in regards to GLBT and GLAAD issues...I'm happy if the series 
> portrays lgbt people in a positive light, but if there's profanity, 
> disrespect, cynicism, name-calling and/or discourtesy rampant, it's 
> not going to be shown in our house.

Kemper now:
Then you should show it as none of your concerns are rampant.  (If you
kids are below the 7th grade, they may not appreciate it)

> Susan:
> So continue on with the flames....I'm getting toasty warm.

Kemper now:
Who's flaming? 




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:39:37 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:39:37 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpn2ue+gl25@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn4t9+71gp@eGroups.com>

> Kemper now:
> It's a family show. I question whether you actually watched it.  Did
> the clerk give you the name?  Perhaps they lied to you or you 
misheard
> the name.  
> 
> Still, it sounds as though you reacted, responding would be seeking
> knowledge (of course, perhaps the clerks weren't very eloquent). 
> Censoring is a knee jerk reaction... which I'm all for if porn was
> being shown in the area of young kids, same goes for rated R or M
> movie/shows. 
> 
> Kemper
>


Alla:

I had been wanting to buy or rent this show for the long time and I 
think I definitely will now.

Now, do not get me wrong, I am a very not appropriate person to ask 
about this.

The idea of not being allowed to watch or read anything I would want 
to 
when I was a kid is, how to put it, very alien to me.

I was allowed to read, well everything I could get my hands on. Now, 
of 
course when I was a young teen, soviet union society just started to 
uncensor itself, so many books or movies which could have been 
objectionable to my parents in one way or another were not on the 
market anyways.

But when I was in my later teens I was greedily swallowing all the 
masterpieces and not masterpieces that were not easily available 
before.

I think I turned out okay LOL.

Ever since every time I read that I have not seen or read the book or 
movie, but I condemn it, I keep remembering reading about campaign 
against "Doctor Shivago" in the soviet press, which could be 
summarised 
in one sentence.

" I did not read the book, but I condemn it". I am sure many know 
that 
this torture in the press caused Pasternak to give up Noble prise.

And by the way, this is a general rambling and does not relate to 
Susan's reaction.

I think that she stated specifically that she reacted to ONE aspect 
of 
the show - the excessive use of profanity. I do not think she touched 
any other aspects at all, I think she reacted to what she SAW herself.

I disagree, but I can respect that.
 
But when for example I read multiple reviews on different sites of 
the "Golden compass", which in essense stated that I have not read 
the 
book or watched the movie, but I condemn it as antireligious, I think 
those reviews to be beyond silly.

Oh I totally respect your right to condemn the book if you read it, 
uncomfortable as I am with condemning ANY written word, I respect 
written word way too much.

Moreover, if you say that you will not read it or watch it because 
you 
think it may hurt your religious feelings or something like that, I 
may 
even respect that. I mean, I also can pick the book or movie or not 
pick book or movie based on the theme of this book or movie if I know 
it.


But one cannot CRITIQUE  the work of art, if one did not read or see 
it.

IMO.

I mean, I guess I can understand the idea of not showing horror 
movies 
or very sexual movies or movies with a lot of profanity to young 
kids, 
to VERY young kids, simply because they are going to repeat in one 
way 
or another whatever they hear or see on screen. I had recently heard 
stories about 2.5 year old, who swears basically non stop simply 
because his mom swears all the time. JOY. My niece's vocabulary is 
expanding every day as well, and while it does not include profanity, 
it absolutely includes ALL expressions she hears from us. And I mean 
ALL 
expressions. So I suppose we would not want her watching a movie 
where she hears profanity in every sentence, but that is because she 
is not even THREE years old yet. In a few years the situation would 
be totally different.

 But when kids enter their early teen years, my position would be to 
watch with them, to talk with them, because I think that it is much 
better they talk about it with me rather than they see it somewhere 
else and just accomodated in their daily living.

I do not believe that by not allowing them to watch or read something 
I 
can shelter them from it permanently.

JMO.




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:46:42 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:46:42 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpgeg2+2r8m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn5ai+9kr5@eGroups.com>


> > Kemper now:
> > The scene in which Susan is describing seems 
> > to come from an episode
> > in which the lead Freak character (as opposed the lead Freak) is 
> > at a
> > girl friends house.  You get the idea that there is a lot of 
> > verbal,
> > emotional abuse and perhaps neglect at the house.  It's hard to 
> > honor
> > those who hurt you.

> Susan:
> And I would have had NO problem had the girl said "You are wrong. You 
> are evil. You are despicable. You have hurt me, and abused me."

Kemper now:
Then the scene would have been laughable as that is not an authentic
expression of anger from an abused teenage girl without any therapy.

> Susan:
> But I want my kids to be empowered to confront someone clearly and 
> energetically and not resort to name-calling.

Kemper now:
I want that for all youth.  But that 5 minutes scene would not have
disrupted the values you are instilling in your kids.

> Susan:
> Besides, there's no context in 5 minutes in a video store.

Kemper now:
Which is why a dialogue with the clerk (clearly and energetically
confronting) would have been a great opportunity for everyone in the
store to see instead of a request/demand that it be turned off.

Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:54:51 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:54:51 -0000
Subject: Profanity was Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpi3ah+tp6b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn5pr+ln70@eGroups.com>


> Susan:
> Re: profanity..it's a thin line between "gosh, look at the fucking 
> mess I made" and "fuck you." 

Kemper now:
'Fuck' is such a powerful word, so the line seems thin even though it
exists.  And I definitely don't want my kid saying it in either of the
examples you listed.

But... If my kid says 'shit' when expresses disappointment, the
consequence would be less than if he said 'shut up' (which I see as
verbal abuse).

Kemper




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 18:56:00 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:56:00 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn440+rab3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn5s0+s860@eGroups.com>

> Carol responds:
> Regardless of the name of the show, you agree that Susan had the 
right
> to complain that a program with such language was being aired in a
> video store, right? And that "It's on television" was hardly an
> adequate response to Susan's request to change the channel. 
(Whatever
> happened to "the customer is always right"?)

Alla:

I absolutely agree that Susan had a right to complain, but do think 
that customer is not always right.

I had observed some very obnoxious customers treating retail workers 
like crap and NO, I do not think that this is right at all. ( NO, 
this does not relate to Susan, just a general observation) and I 
absolutely observed some very rude retail workers as well no question 
about it.

> 
> Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of 
the
> show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate content

Alla:

Inappropriate content for whom? For young kiddos? Maybe, cannot say.

For the story as well told story, I have a feeling it is very 
appropriate, but I can only judge after I see it.




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 19:06:33 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:06:33 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn440+rab3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn6fp+2vkl@eGroups.com>

 
> 
> Carol responded:
> Regardless of the name of the show, you agree that Susan had the right
> to complain that a program with such language was being aired in a
> video store, right? And that "It's on television" was hardly an
> adequate response to Susan's request to change the channel. (Whatever
> happened to "the customer is always right"?)

Kemper now:
I agree.  
No it wasn't adequate, which is what I had said up-thread.
It's a black and white statement.  The customer is sometimes wrong :) 

Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 19:09:55 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:09:55 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn5s0+s860@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn6m3+qkg5@eGroups.com>



> > Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of 
> the
> > show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate content

> Alla:
> Inappropriate content for whom? For young kiddos? Maybe, cannot say.

Kemper now:
I think Carol is saying that what was being shown at the store had the
inappropriate content and not that FaG has the inappropriate content.

Right, Carol?

Kemper







From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 19:28:55 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:28:55 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpn4t9+71gp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn7pn+oi2e@eGroups.com>


> > Kemper now:
> > It's a family show. 

> Alla:
> 
> I had been wanting to buy or rent this show for the long time and I 
> think I definitely will now.

Kemper now:
Yeah!  NYPL has 19 copies of it... unfortunately there are 72 holds.
I'm a fan of library holds.  When it comes in, it's like whatever
holiday it is that you get presents!


> Alla:
> ... HUGE SNIP ...

Kemper now:
Have you read Fahrenheit 451?  If not, I think you might appreciate it
even more growing up in Russia.

One of the local libraries here is giving away the book to promote
reading and discussion.  One of the activities asks: "What book would
you burn?"  You write your answer on the provided paper and state why.  

My answer would have to be Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire because it
was the most poorly written book I've ever read.  Thinking about the
time I'll never get back... steams me.  It is prolly why I don't
attempt to read fanfiction.

Kemper, who believes some books should be burned





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 19:34:13 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:34:13 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpn7pn+oi2e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpn83l+ohtr@eGroups.com>

> > Alla:
> > 
> > I had been wanting to buy or rent this show for the long time and 
I 
> > think I definitely will now.
> 
> Kemper now:
> Yeah!  NYPL has 19 copies of it... unfortunately there are 72 holds.
> I'm a fan of library holds.  When it comes in, it's like whatever
> holiday it is that you get presents!

Alla:

Ah. Good deal :) I am usually less patient with waiting for something 
I really want, but I think I will try :)

 
> 
> > Alla:
> > ... HUGE SNIP ...
> 
> Kemper now:
> Have you read Fahrenheit 451?  If not, I think you might appreciate 
it
> even more growing up in Russia.

Alla:

I did :)

 
> One of the local libraries here is giving away the book to promote
> reading and discussion.  One of the activities asks: "What book 
would
> you burn?"  You write your answer on the provided paper and state 
why.  
> 
> My answer would have to be Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire because 
it
> was the most poorly written book I've ever read.  Thinking about the
> time I'll never get back... steams me.  It is prolly why I don't
> attempt to read fanfiction.
> 
> Kemper, who believes some books should be burned
>


Alla:

Kemper, I do not read Star wars books, accordingly I cannot comment 
on their quality. But shhhhhh, the reason I do not read them is 
because I do not think of them as the books of high quality all 
together :)

No, I am not judging them, I am just not wasting my time on them.


Actually, wait, no I am lying, I just realised. I forgot that I did 
read couple of books in Star wars universe by Timothy Zann. A friend 
dearly loves this writer, so he convinced me. It was okay, I guess.

I still think movie is the best though.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 22 20:20:27 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:20:27 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn440+rab3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpnaqb+iqvp@eGroups.com>

> Carol responds:
> Regardless of the name of the show, you agree that Susan had the 
right
> to complain that a program with such language was being aired in a
> video store, right? And that "It's on television" was hardly an
> adequate response to Susan's request to change the channel. (Whatever
> happened to "the customer is always right"?)
> 
> Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of 
the
> show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate content

Magpie:
I do think she has the right to complain about that kind of language--
though in this case I don't think the name of the show was the issue, 
but that if you know the show, there's a disconnect. Because is 
already free of language like "shit" or "fuck." "It's on television" 
actually is a very valid (if probably inarticulate) response, because 
it means that it falls well within the guidelines of what they can 
show on the screens. Primetime network television already has family 
limits on violence, nudity and language. Some of it still might not be 
appropriate for children, but that's not something you can get from 5 
minutes. If the store actually was showing FAG and somebody came up 
and said, "Take that off, it's using X-rated language" someone might 
respond by just saying, "No it's not, you misheard. It's a network TV 
show. It doesn't contain those words."

But since she mentioned the title of the show they were supposedly 
showing, people who knew the show were just arguing whether or not 
there was anything in that particular show that shouldn't be shown in 
a video store. Like I said, I think most video stores have a policy 
that the employees already have to follow about what's considered 
appropriate to show. Not just kid stuff, but nothing above a certain 
rating. If they show something outside of those guidelines a customer 
ceratinly has a right to complain. (Well, they have a right to 
complain regardless, of course!)

-m




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 22 20:23:00 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:23:00 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpn7pn+oi2e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpnav4+q61r@eGroups.com>

> > > Kemper now:
> > > It's a family show. 
> 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > I had been wanting to buy or rent this show for the long time and 
I 
> > think I definitely will now.
> 
> Kemper now:
> Yeah!  NYPL has 19 copies of it... unfortunately there are 72 holds.
> I'm a fan of library holds.  When it comes in, it's like whatever
> holiday it is that you get presents!

Magpie:
Okay, I just got some episodes from Netflix. I'll be watching this 
weekend.:-)

-m




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 20:25:13 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:25:13 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpnav4+q61r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpnb39+oq44@eGroups.com>

> > Kemper now:
> > Yeah!  NYPL has 19 copies of it... unfortunately there are 72 holds.
> > I'm a fan of library holds.  When it comes in, it's like whatever
> > holiday it is that you get presents!
> 
> Magpie:
> Okay, I just got some episodes from Netflix. I'll be watching this 
> weekend.:-)
> 
> -m
>

Alla:

Oh. Even better. I am finishing up my trial subscription for netflix 
and will continue it. YAY. I will add this show.





From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 22 22:49:11 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:49:11 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpn83l+ohtr@eGroups.com>
References: <fpn83l+ohtr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47BF5167.3000307@yahoo.com>

Kemper:
> My answer would have to be Star Wars: Shadow of the 
 > Empire because it was the most poorly written book

Worse than DaVinci Code? Wow!

Though I won't say DC is the worst book I've *ever* read (Sword of 
Shanarra wins that honor), it's certainly the worst I've read in the 
last quarter century. Two hours of *my* life I'd love to have back.

> Kemper, who believes some books should be burned

As an act of mercy, yes.

Alla:
 > still think movie is the best though.

So in this case the book did not live up to the movie? :-)

CJ, whose only experience with Star Wars literature was the novelization 
of the original movie.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 02:21:32 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:21:32 -0000
Subject: Mensa
Message-ID: <fpnvvc+rvd0@eGroups.com>

Speaking of Mensa, did you all see the 10 top TV shows of all time 
list? 

Here it is:
 
Frasier
The West Wing
Boston Legal
Jeopardy
Cosmos, Carl Sagan
House
CSI
All in the Family
Mad About You
Mash

I am SOOOO happy to see some of my favorite shows in this list. 
Frasier, West Wing, Jeopardy, CSI, All in the Family, Mad About You, 
and Mash!!  Gosh... maybe I am smarter than I think. I will bask in 
that thought for now. ;-)

Tonks_op
Who is bummed out because I missed seeing Sweeney Todd after all. 
The day we were going to go there was a blizzard and by the time the 
weather got better, the movie was gone. ;-(  I don't have a DVD 
player either. so :-(  :-(  ...thats a double :-(




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 02:34:34 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:34:34 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent  ramble
In-Reply-To: <47BF5167.3000307@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fpo0nq+h54k@eGroups.com>


> > Kemper:
> > My answer would have to be Star Wars: Shadow of the 
> > Empire because it was the most poorly written book...

> CJ:
> Worse than DaVinci Code? Wow!

Kemper now:
As I was typing the above, it originally was The Da Vinci Code!
While Da Vinci was an easier read than Shadow, it was painfully
predictable.  I kept thinking it would get better, the premise had
such potential but the author wrote as though his audience was stupid.
 As for Shadow, I threw it across the room when I was done.  I think I
was more mad at myself than the book.  I learned than that you don't
have to finish a book if you don't like it.  Also, that anybody with
pen and paper could be published.

Similarly, Cool World was the movie I learned I could walk out on.


> > Kemper, who believes some books should be burned

> CJ: As an act of mercy, yes.

Kemper now:
And as an act of vengeance.


> CJ, whose only experience with Star Wars literature was the
novelization 
> of the original movie.

Kemper now:
Recommending the Dark Horse comic "Legacy" that is a Star Wars story
taking place 100 or so years after Return, but only if you come to it
easily.  No need to hunt it.

Kemper





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 05:05:02 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 05:05:02 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
Message-ID: <fpo9hv+3i7l@eGroups.com>

*scurries about, hanging black streamers and strategically placing 
smoking black cauldrons around the room*

There, does that look sufficiently Snape-y? :D

Today's birthday honouree is SSSusan. Birthday owls can be sent care 
of this list or directly to: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net

Snacks, beverages and a lovely chocolate cake can be found on the 
side table. Feel free to move the tables back for dancing when the 
food is gone. 

Oh, wait! I nearly forgot!

*puts out two cauldrons, one marked "Potion for Youth" and one 
marked "Potion for Wealth"*

Snape said to let you know you can only pick one. If you try to drink 
them both they'll cancel each other out. <vbeg>

Hope you have a wonderful, magical day that includes peace and quiet 
and time for yourself.

Happy Birthday, SSSusan!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf (vacationing with Amandageist and up to no 
good)!




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 09:50:25 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:50:25 +0800
Subject: Worst books ever read (was: Re: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent
  ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpo0nq+h54k@eGroups.com>
References: <fpo0nq+h54k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47BFEC61.7020009@yahoo.com>

Kemper now:
> Da Vinci ... was painfully predictable. ... the author wrote 
 > as though his audience was stupid.

Correct on both counts. Not to mention insipid writing, paint-by-number 
character development (let's see, Sophie's ("'Sophie'? Please!") 
mysterious back-story  needs, umm, sex ... check ... murder .. got it 
.... intrigue ... working on that now), and "impeccable" research that 
was wrong more often than not (any first-year art student could tell you 
  The Last Supper is *not* a fresco).

I once wrote a review of DC that ran something like this: "The book hits 
you with what is undoubtedly it's greatest blunder before you've even 
opened it. The man's named is Leonardo, please. Vinci was his hometown. 
How can you take seriously a piece of historical fiction whose very 
title screams out 'Penned by an historical ignoramus!'?"

About two-thirds of the puzzles Langdon encountered I had figured out 
before he did (and, like you, even many of the puzzles themselves I saw 
coming well in advance), which left me spending most of the book waiting 
for the idiot main character to get a clue. What was the device he 
carried around for half the book before discovering it was actually a 
key? The first time I read its description I said (actually out loud), 
"It's a key." And it took Langdon in excess of another hundred pages to 
figure that out.

As for insipid writing, the scene where Teabing "reels back in shock" on 
his crutches in seeing Silas on his patio springs to mind as one of the 
more egregious examples. Please! When have you *ever* seen anyone "reel 
back" for any reason? The whole book had the feel of B movie full of 
high school acting.

> As for Shadow, I threw it across the room when I was done.

A la Dorothy Parker, yes? "This is not a book to be set down lightly. It 
should be thrown with great force."

> Similarly, Cool World was the movie I learned I could walk out on.

Well, that was one I couldn't walk out on, as I watched it at home.

> Kemper, who believes some books should be burned

> CJ: As an act of mercy, yes.

> Kemper now:
> And as an act of vengeance.

I was thinking of saving the next poor soul the torture. Though I did 
actually once shred a book a mail it back to the author :-)


CJ




From a_svirn at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 12:14:36 2008
From: a_svirn at yahoo.com (a_svirn)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:14:36 -0000
Subject: Worst books ever read (was: Re: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent ramble
In-Reply-To: <47BFEC61.7020009@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fpp2nc+hqu0@eGroups.com>

 > CJ 
> 
> I once wrote a review of DC that ran something like this: "The book 
hits 
> you with what is undoubtedly it's greatest blunder before you've even 
> opened it. The man's named is Leonardo, please. Vinci was his 
hometown. 
> How can you take seriously a piece of historical fiction whose very 
> title screams out 'Penned by an historical ignoramus!'?"

I was pretty incensed that the man made an ignoramus out of an Oxford 
professor. Teabing managed to confuse Qumran scrolls with Nag Hammadi 
codices, and prattle away on the meanings of Aramean words all the 
while being perfectly oblivious to the fact that Gnostic gospels are 
written in Coptic. Of course, Langdon himself is a Harvard professor, 
and he teaches something like "symbology". Which gives me a poor 
opinion on the Harvard curriculum. 
a_svirn.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 17:52:21 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:52:21 -0000
Subject: Profanity and wasting water (was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpn5pr+ln70@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppmgl+8jt7@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote:
> 'Fuck' is such a powerful word, so the line seems thin even though it
> exists. <snip>

Carol responds:
Is it? Maybe it used to be, but so did "damn" once upon a time. Both
of them have, IMO, lost all their power and effectiveness through
overuse. It's rather like explicit sex scenes in a novel. After the
first one, they lose all their shock value and hence their
effectiveness. At any rate, when I hear obscenity, vulgarity, and
scatology, I'm completely unimpressed. What hist language needs is
some creative curses. Remember the old song, "May the Bird of Paradise
Fly up Your Nose"? Well, maybe you're too young. IMO, all the use of
four-letter words does is reflect the poverty of the user's
imagination and vocabulary. It shows me that he or she is angry, but
it doesn't make me angry in return, and it certainly doesn't impress
or scare me.

BTW, you said something in another post about water being a renewable
resource. Maybe you haven't been to the desert Southwest, where our
rivers seldom have water in them and our artesian wells are drying out
and collapsing and have to be supplemented with Colorado River water.
Wastewater can be "reclaimed," though much of it goes to waste, and
the water that is "reclaimed" can only be used for irrigation, not for
drinking and bathing. Remember the "hose pipe" ban in OoP? In severe
droughts (as opposed to the normal drought that we're always
suffering), people are fined for watering their lawns and encouraged
to take showers only about twice a week. (No one is fined for breaking
that "rule," of course, but water is a precious resource, and it's
getting scarcer here as the population grows. Too bad Arizona doesn't
have a coastline; maybe we could build a desalinization plant.

Carol, sorry to disagree with Kemper on two points in one post!




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 17:58:12 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:58:12 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn5s0+s860@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppmrk+ftm3@eGroups.com>

> > Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of
 the show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate content
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Inappropriate content for whom? For young kiddos? Maybe, cannot say.
> 
> For the story as well told story, I have a feeling it is very 
appropriate, but I can only judge after I see it.

Carol responds:
I'm not talking about the content of FAG, which I've never seen (and
it's possible that Susan is mistaken regarding the title of the show
that she objected to). I'm talking about the specific obscenities that
Susan listed, which, IMO, are inappropriate for airing in a video
store, regardless of whether the show was FAG or something else. I
don't want to list the obscenities, but you can read them upthread. I
don't see how those particular words could be considered "very
appropriate" unless the audience is a bunch of adults in a bar.

Carol, apologizing for being unclear




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 18:06:03 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:06:03 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn6fp+2vkl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppnab+mg0p@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > Regardless of the name of the show, you agree that Susan had the right
> > to complain that a program with such language was being aired in a
> > video store, right? And that "It's on television" was hardly an
> > adequate response to Susan's request to change the channel. (Whatever
> > happened to "the customer is always right"?)
> 
> Kemper now:
> I agree.  
> No it wasn't adequate, which is what I had said up-thread.
> It's a black and white statement.  The customer is sometimes wrong :) 

Carol again:

So we agree that "It's on television" was an inadequate response. I
can't tell whether you also agree that Susan had a right to complain
about those particular obscenities, regardless of the name of the show
that was airing. Do we agree there, too?

As for "The customer is always right," all it means is that employees
are obliged to treat a customer, even an angry one, with courtesy and
respect, and to listen to their complaint, and to treat it as
legitimate unless they can courteously prove that the customer has
misunderstood the warranty or the product is not damaged or whatever.
Unless, of course, the customer starts using the sort of language that
Susan was complaining about, or harassing and threatening the
employees, in which case the customer is in the wrong.

Carol, who thinks there's a place for almost every kind of language,
but that place is not a video store




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 18:08:32 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:08:32 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn6m3+qkg5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppnf0+ju57@eGroups.com>

Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of 
the show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate content
> 
> > Alla:
> > Inappropriate content for whom? For young kiddos? Maybe, cannot say.
> 
> Kemper now:
> I think Carol is saying that what was being shown at the store had
the inappropriate content and not that FaG has the inappropriate content.
> 
> Right, Carol?

Carol:
Right! Thanks, Kemper.

Carol, still not sure whether we agree on that point but glad that you
understood what I was saying




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 18:20:10 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:20:10 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
In-Reply-To: <fpo9hv+3i7l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppo4q+lju0@eGroups.com>

Sheryll Townsend *scurries about, hanging black streamers and
strategically placing smoking black cauldrons around the room*
> 
> There, does that look sufficiently Snape-y? :D
> 
> Today's birthday honouree is SSSusan. Birthday owls can be sent care 
> of this list or directly to: susiequsie23 at ...
<snip>
> *puts out two cauldrons, one marked "Potion for Youth" and one 
> marked "Potion for Wealth"*
> 
> Snape said to let you know you can only pick one. If you try to
drink them both they'll cancel each other out. <vbeg> <snip>

Carol responds:
Happy belated birthday, SSS! Which potion are you choosing? I choose
the wealth potion as I don't care to relive my youth, especially under
today's conditions. Semi-old age has its advantages. 'Course, it would
be nice to have a better memory and better eyesight, but, nah. I've
had youth once and never had wealth, so that's my choice.

Carol, who somehow missed the birthday wishes yesterday--*and* missed
yesterday's "Monk" finale to boot! (at least it's on again tonight, so
please, no spoilers from anyone who's seen it!)





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 18:32:34 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:32:34 -0000
Subject: Worst books ever read (was: Re: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent ramble
In-Reply-To: <47BFEC61.7020009@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fppos2+g0h6@eGroups.com>

> > Kemper, who believes some books should be burned
> 
> > CJ: As an act of mercy, yes.
> 
> > Kemper now:
> > And as an act of vengeance.
> 
> I was thinking of saving the next poor soul the torture. Though I did 
> actually once shred a book a mail it back to the author :-)

Carol responds:
It's a wonder that some books get published. However, as a copyeditor
who sometimes edits the work of first-time authors who will probably
never be published even with my help, I can say that anyone who
doesn't edit for a living probably has not seen really bad writing
(unless they read bad fanfic).

I wish I could share some of the bad writing with you, but that would
be unethical. Suffice it to say that I've seen everything from porn to
religious children's novels, every possible error from dangling
modifiers and mixed metaphors to second-language errors and
semi-illiteracy. I have to edit the darn things, usually using Word,
but you've given me an idea. Next time I just can't stand the
stupidity (wordiness, awkwardness, inconsistency, predictability,
graphic details, too much exposition, or whatever), I'll just print
out a chapter and shred it. 

There! The "author" will never know, and I'll feel better. And I'll
still get paid for my pain, erm, work.

Carol, who has no way to actually burn a book or manuscript, as it
would smoulder in the fireplace and make an awful mess, and doesn't
think that tossing it in the recycle bin would provide sufficient
satisfaction




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 23 19:03:56 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:56 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fppmrk+ftm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppqms+sv8a@eGroups.com>

> > > Carol, who has never seen FAG, either, but thinks that the name of
>  the show is beside the point--what matters is the inappropriate 
content

Magpie:
Just to stick this in somewhere, there definitely must have been some 
mistake as to what they were showing in the store. I've now watched 
three episodes and I don't think I've even heard the word "damn." (I 
can remember one suggestive use of an inoccuous word that a little 
child wouldn't get.) The central family of the show actually are 
respectful of each other--the kids roll their eyes and have gone behind 
their parents backs etc., but they all obviously care about each other 
and if they hurt each other (so far by accident) they apologize and 
talk to each other. 

I'm a little iffy on the whole "Freaks" group, because while the geeks 
are very realistic (probably reflecting the writers' own experience) 
the freaks seem to want to be both the popular crew and the dirtbags, 
and that just doesn't really jibe with me. Their characters would 
certainly fit perfectly well making them rich and popular, at least so 
far. (They might as well call them the movie star group as they are all 
very attractive compared to mostly everyone else--and now all more 
famous.) 

So in general, so far this is definitely a show I'd feel comfortable 
running in a video store in case little kids walked in. Much better 
than whatever was playing in the store Susan walked into!

-m (now wishing Susan remembered it more clearly because I'm curious as 
to what it was!)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 23 19:10:23 2008
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann Jennings)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:10:23 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
Message-ID: <744839.61276.qm@web25803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Yay, it's SSSusan's birthday!  ***huge schnoogle*** 
29 again, eh? ;)

SSSusan, I hope you're having a wonderful day and that
all things good and Snapey come your way.

Mary Ann, who's been 29 quite a lot of times and waves
to Sheryll and Amanda




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 19:37:45 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:37:45 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fppnab+mg0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fppsm9+9d29@eGroups.com>

---  "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol earlier:
> >> Regardless of the name of the show, you agree that Susan
> >> had the right to complain that a program with such 
> >>language was being aired in a video store, right? And that
> >> "It's on television" was hardly an adequate response...
> > 
> > Kemper now:
> > I agree.  
> > No it wasn't adequate, which is what I had said up-thread.
> > It's a black and white statement. The customer is sometimes
> > wrong :) 
> 
> Carol again:
> 
> So we agree that "It's on television" was an inadequate 
> response. I can't tell whether you also agree that Susan had
> a right to complain about those particular obscenities, 
> regardless of the name of the show that was airing. Do we 
> agree there, too?
> 

bboyminn:

I think "It's on television" was an adequate response.  

I also think we are probably dealing with an overly strict
standard for 'profanity'. This was, after all, a prime time 
network television show, it can have had that much profanity 
in it or it would have never made it on the air. 

However, once the customer insisted that she didn't want
her children exposed to that kind of language, especially in
a public family friendly place, the store clerk should have
immediately complied. At bare minimum, he should have turn
the sound down until the customer left or it became clear 
that the characters in the show were no longer using 
objectionable language.

And I think this is what we really have - objectionable
language that by network standards did not rise to the level
of profanity. If it had, they would have censored it before
it ever hit the air. 

However, just because it didn't reach the common standard
of profanity, does not mean it did not meet this person's
standard for 'objectionable'. This person found it 
sufficiently objectionable to approach the clerk and protest. 
That alone is enough for the clerk to show consideration.

We all have to compromise to live in a world filled with
other people. To some extent that means accepting that
objectionable language exists in the world and you can't
insulate yourself from it. But it also mean you show 
consideration for the sensitivities of other people, people
who object to this kind of language in what is being promoted
as a 'family friendly' environment.

This person was perfectly within her rights to object, to 
demand action, and to expect that action to occur.

Steve/bboyminn




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 23:14:24 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:14:24 -0000
Subject: 'Harry Potter' Is Addictive, Study Concludes
Message-ID: <fpq9cg+ktp6@eGroups.com>

As if WE didn't know, a team of psychologist have a term for what some 
of us have experienced, 'post-Potter depression'. Here is the article.

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1582149/20080222/story.jhtml?
rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawler

For those of us on this list, we already know this, of course. Long ago 
we started a group simular to AA. But now there is scientific proof. 
lol. I love the story about the Dr.'s teenage daugther.

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 23 23:34:21 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:34:21 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fp8me3+m1jf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpqaht+m4q5@eGroups.com>

> Susan said:
> Is anyone familiar with the television series Freaks and Geeks?
> I guess it got good reviews.
> 
> I was in a video store with my children today and it was playing.
> After hearing profanity five times, I asked one of the workers to 
> turn it off. She mumbled at me.
> It continued and five minutes later it featured a screaming match 
> between a teenager and her stepfather, they were screaming 
> profanities, and she was calling him a big fat loser. 
> Before THAT, they were discussing menstruating during intercourse, 
> and "walking in on someone."
> I asked (again) that it be turned off. The manager 
responded "well, it's on television." And an obviously impaired 
teenager said "yeah, it's on tv."
> As if that made it okay.
> I repeated my request loudly (but courteously) several times, and 
> eventually the manager turned it off. 
> He seemed unable to understand my objections (there were children 
> down to age four in the store).
> Am I out of step? Wrong? Does anyone else think this kind of stuff 
is unsuitable for children?

Tonks:
I am late in reading this, but wondered what all of these post were 
about so I took time to read a few. 

I have never seen this show. I don't know what profanity was used. 
HOWEVER, talking about 'menstrating during intercourse'?, GIVE ME A 
BREAK!! What kind of a show is this?? That has no place on TV, 
especially prime time, as someone said it was. And I agree that it 
has no place in a "family" store. And Kemper would be out of place 
if he came in behind you and told the man to turn it back on. As out 
of place as he is in suggesting that people who don't like the show 
are less than 'intellegent'!!  Personally, I don't think that they 
need to play anything in a store, it is all too loud anyway. I just 
want to shop in peace. 

Tonks_op
wondering what has happened to the level of morality in our country!!




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 00:03:07 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:03:07 -0000
Subject: Clean Language ( was Re: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <000601c87581$e916ddc0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>
Message-ID: <fpqc7r+pcp8@eGroups.com>

> [Lee]:> 
> What really distresses me is that such language is considered 
acceptable and used liberally in the military training.  Even when I 
witnessed a Civil Air Patrol drill, the sergeant used an expletive 
practically every other word and liberal use of the "f" word.  If I 
were a parent with a child in CAP, I would not hesitate to have 
words with the sergeant about such language.
> 
> It doesn't make men out of boys, as some would say it does.  It 
doesn't sound cool, macho, intimidating or any of that twaddle.  It 
says to me that such sergeants and trainers need to learn proper use 
of the English language and teach such usage to others.  The 
whole "raw" language approach doesn't fly for me.

Tonks:
I am afraid that is true of the military in general. I also noticed 
it a number of years ago when I saw and heard a group of policemen 
on duty at a local station as they talked amoung themselves. I was 
surprised at their language. At the time I thought to myself that 
since they dealt with criminals all day they started to take on the 
same sort of speech as what they heard. 

I wonder if the fowl language in the military is for a purpose. Not 
to 'make a boy into a man', but to teach hated of the enemy. I 
suspect there is some psychological reason for doing it. But with 
women in the military these days, I think it would be more out of 
place. But then I don't think that women should be in the military, 
but that is another story. (I can see the e-mails coming now. By 
this I mean, a women should not be in a combat zone, on the front 
lines or not. War is a man's job. And no, I don't think that women 
should stay home and have babies, either. We should let men do the 
dirty work. That is what they were made for.. to take out the 
trash... and, oh ya, don't forget to change my flat tire while you 
are at it.  ;-)

Tonks_op





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 00:24:14 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:24:14 -0000
Subject: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpqaht+m4q5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpqdfe+r4ur@eGroups.com>

 
> Tonks:
> I am late in reading this, but wondered what all of these post were 
> about so I took time to read a few. 
> 
> I have never seen this show. I don't know what profanity was used. 
> HOWEVER, talking about 'menstrating during intercourse'?, GIVE ME A 
> BREAK!! What kind of a show is this?? That has no place on TV, 
> especially prime time, as someone said it was. And I agree that it 
> has no place in a "family" store. And Kemper would be out of place 
> if he came in behind you and told the man to turn it back on. As out 
> of place as he is in suggesting that people who don't like the show 
> are less than 'intellegent'!!  Personally, I don't think that they 
> need to play anything in a store, it is all too loud anyway. I just 
> want to shop in peace. 

Kemper now:
It would not be out of place if the show was Freaks and Geeks which,
if you've read the thread, it doesn't seem to be.

Can you direct me to the post number where I supposedly suggested
those who don't like the show are less 'intellegent'.  And are you
saying I spelled 'intelligent' wrong?

Super.
Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 00:45:20 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:45:20 -0000
Subject: Profanity and wasting water (was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fppmgl+8jt7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpqen0+ke0c@eGroups.com>


> Kemper wrote:
> > 'Fuck' is such a powerful word, so the line seems thin even though it
> > exists. <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> Is it? Maybe it used to be, but so did "damn" once upon a time. Both
> of them have, IMO, lost all their power and effectiveness through
> overuse. 

Kemper now:
As many people are still offended by it, I think the power exists.
I encourage youth who overuse it, to use it like salt: a little bit
for taste, but too much takes away from the meat of their story,
conversation, requests, or any other bland/juicy discourse.


> Carol:
> BTW, you said something in another post about water being a renewable
> resource. Maybe you haven't been to the desert Southwest, where our
> rivers seldom have water in them and our artesian wells are drying out
> and collapsing and have to be supplemented with Colorado River water.

Kemper now:
I think you are confusing me with someone else.
Montims said water was finite resource, than Random replied with
something random that I didn't quite get.

I spent my jr high and high school years in ugly Las Vegas, NV.

Kemper, who takes 2.5 minute showers and thinks we only disagree on
the one thing :)




From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 24 01:48:13 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:48:13 -0000
Subject: 'Harry Potter' Is Addictive, Study Concludes
In-Reply-To: <fpq9cg+ktp6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpqict+i8n9@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
>
> As if WE didn't know, a team of psychologist have a term for what 
some of us have experienced, 'post-Potter depression'. Here is the 
article.

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1582149/20080222/story.jhtml?
rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawler

For those of us on this list, we already know this, of course. Long ago 
we started a group simular to AA. But now there is scientific proof. 
lol. I love the story about the Dr.'s teenage daugther.

Tonks_op

Tiffany:

I never really got all that hooked into the series to truly be addicted 
to it, but I did dress as a Potter character several times for 
Halloween, have some costumes, trading cards, & action figures, in 
addition to the books & movies themselves.  I have some friends of mine 
in college who have their dorm rooms decorated in Potter related 
stuff.  I can easily relate, as I've seen a whole lot of rooms like it, 
but that's not my cup of tea to get that hooked into it.  I have a 
cousin who's really big into Trek, so I know all about addiction & the 
lengths of addiction that some fans get to.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Feb 24 02:00:42 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:00:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Clean Language ( was Re: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpqc7r+pcp8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c87689$0fe0d890$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Tonks]:
| I wonder if the fowl language in the military is for a purpose. Not 
| to 'make a boy into a man', but to teach hated of the enemy. I 
| suspect there is some psychological reason for doing it.

Well, if there is, I can't see it.  Using such language to teach hatred of
the enemy?  I don't see how that should/would work, and if that is the
reason, it seems ludicrous.

[Tonks]:
| But with 
| women in the military these days, I think it would be more out of 
| place.

[Lee]:
Double standard, my girl?  Naughty, naughty!  That's definitely a big
annoyance for me...the double standard principle...it's okay for a man but
not for a woman, or visa versa.  Not, IMHO.

[Tonks]:
| But then I don't think that women should be in the military, 
| but that is another story. (I can see the e-mails coming now. By 
| this I mean, a women should not be in a combat zone, on the front 
| lines or not. War is a man's job. And no, I don't think that women 
| should stay home and have babies, either. We should let men do the 
| dirty work. That is what they were made for.. to take out the 
| trash... and, oh ya, don't forget to change my flat tire while you 
| are at it.  ;-)

[Lee]:
<Shaking head vigorously!>

Are you kidding?  I hope you are!!  Being somewhat of a grease-monkey, I
find the idea of changing flats just fine; I'd rather be able to change my
own flat tire than have to call and wait for someone to do it for me.

And as far as being on the front lines, again, that double standard thing.
When one signs up to serve, one takes whatever position he or she does best.
Assigning a hot woman pilot to a desk job for which she is unsuited or some
other position to which her temperament and qualifications might create
problems not only for her but for those around her is a complete waste in
many ways.

Normally a conservative, this is one area where I am not and believe in
using all people for the potential for which they were created in whatever
positions will best utilize their capabilities.

Let me flop off my soap box now and dive into the shower, hoping it will
drown my rather annoying head-ouch, a gift left behind from all the pressure
and humidity changes.

Cheers,

Lee





From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 24 04:08:12 2008
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:08:12 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
In-Reply-To: <fpo9hv+3i7l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpqqjc+onkj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Sheryll Townsend" <s_ings at ...> 
wrote:
>
> *scurries about, hanging black streamers and strategically placing 
> smoking black cauldrons around the room*
> 
> There, does that look sufficiently Snape-y? :D
<snip>
> Oh, wait! I nearly forgot!
> 
> *puts out two cauldrons, one marked "Potion for Youth" and one 
> marked "Potion for Wealth"*
> 
> Snape said to let you know you can only pick one. If you try to drink 
> them both they'll cancel each other out. <vbeg>
> 

SSSusan:
Heh, loooove the Snape-y decorations, Sheryll!  Thanks to you & Amanda, 
who I'm sure helped with that theme!

Hmmm. That is a very tough choice indeed.  Carol (who wasn't late at 
all!) just about convinced me to go for wealth... but I have to say, 
hitting 46 as I just did, that youth is very tempting indeed.  Wealth, 
though, would buy me more time for hanging out at the gym, so maybe I 
could fool the old age gods a little by that method, huh?  :)  So go 
ahead & tell ol' Snape for me that I'll take the wealth, I guess.

'Twasn't a peaceful, quiet kind of day, but it was a good one.  Lots 
and lots of sports, intermingled with Mexican food, a margarita and 
some coffee ice cream (yum!).  One of my favorite ways to spend a day.

Siriusly Snapey Susan,
with a nod to Mary Ann for her 29th birthday suggestion :)










From lilollu at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 04:06:09 2008
From: lilollu at yahoo.com (lilollu)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:06:09 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
Message-ID: <fpqqfh+3seb@eGroups.com>

Hello, I'm new here and actually I've never been to a
convention of any kind. I really want to go this year
either to Portus or Terminus 2008. I'm pretty sure I
wouldn't be able to go to two so can I elicit your
advice about which I should look into? I don't really
know what's what when it comes to fan stuff. I'm
worried about the total cost, but I just want to get
the most out of my experience. Thanks for any advice
you guys might offer.
-Lilo






From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 04:27:36 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:27:36 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Worst books ever read (was: Re: Freaks and
 Geeks LONG and uncoherent ramble
In-Reply-To: <fpp2nc+hqu0@eGroups.com>
References: <fpp2nc+hqu0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47C0F238.4090105@yahoo.com>

a_svirn blessed us with this gem On 23/02/2008 20:14:
> Teabing managed to confuse Qumran scrolls with Nag Hammadi
> codices, and prattle away on the meanings of Aramean words all the
> while being perfectly oblivious to the fact that Gnostic gospels are
> written in Coptic.

Hey, good catch! That blew right past me, and I used to consider myself 
something of a student of the Qumran scrolls. Must of been one of those 
(frequent) times my mind had wandered onto more enjoyable things -- like 
cleaning out the eaves.

Carol responds:

 > It's a wonder that some books get published.

Sword of Shannara, IMO, was one. I'm still amazed neither Brooks nor his 
publishing company was ever sued by the Tolkien estate for plagiarism; 
Brooks himself admits he pretty much lifted not just the plot but most 
of his characters straight out of LotR. Still, that was back in the day 
when LotR was just coming into its own popularity-wise, there just 
wasn't any other fantasy out there, and people wer clamoring for 
anything publishers could give them. So I suppose it's understandable 
(even if not forgivable) that Shannara was published. Though I 
understand Brooks has developed into quite a competent author now. I 
just haven't had the courage to read anything else of his.

Carol:
 > I wish I could share some of the bad writing with you

And yet, there's nothing like reading the bad stuff to help you 
understand what makes the good stuff good stuff.

Carol:
 > The "author" will never know, and I'll feel better.

As I recall, it took me a couple of days to shred that book; all I had 
was a pair of kitchen shears. But what a catharsis it was! (And I can't 
even remember what the book was anymore.)

CJ




From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 24 04:48:29 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:48:29 -0000
Subject: Worst books ever read (was: Re: Freaks and Geeks LONG and uncoherent ramble
In-Reply-To: <47C0F238.4090105@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fpqsut+ev8b@eGroups.com>

> Carol:
>
> I wish I could share some of the bad writing with you

And yet, there's nothing like reading the bad stuff to help you 
understand what makes the good stuff good stuff.

Carol:
The "author" will never know, and I'll feel better.

> CJ:
>
> As I recall, it took me a couple of days to shred that book; all I 
had was a pair of kitchen shears. But what a catharsis it was! (And I 
can't even remember what the book was anymore.)
CJ

Tifany:

Some of Brooks stuff can be difficult to read, but easily the worst 
was the book for the movie "The Last Boy Scout".  It was one of the 
few times that the movie was better than the book was, I didn't even 
keep the book for more than a few months & was glad to get it off my 
shelf for good.




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 05:15:07 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:15:07 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] 'Harry Potter' Is Addictive, Study Concludes
In-Reply-To: <fpq9cg+ktp6@eGroups.com>
References: <fpq9cg+ktp6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47C0FD5B.2020005@yahoo.com>

Tonks blessed us with this gem On 24/02/2008 07:14:

> As if WE didn't know, a team of psychologist have a term 
 > for what some of us have experienced, 'post-Potter depression'.
 > ... now there is scientific proof.

Hmm, I dunno. Reads like a pretty typical piece of journalism. Take 
something rather pedestrian and try, by reversing cause and effect, to 
turn it into man-bites-dog. The implication of the reporting is that 
these people are addicted to Harry Potter because Harry Potter is 
addictive, when I strongly suspect the truth is the study is simply 
rediscovering what we already know -- some people are easily addicted. 
Today, Harry Potter (not coincidentally making for timely news); 
tomorrow the next trendy fashion coming down the pike. Harry Potter is 
not, in fact, the cause of their addiction, it's simply the trigger.

CJ




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 05:41:17 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:41:17 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpqaht+m4q5@eGroups.com>
References: <fpqaht+m4q5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47C1037D.3010009@yahoo.com>

Hey, Tonks.

I'm with you (almost) all the way on this one.

Personally, I have no idea what's "on TV these (or any other) days", as 
I've never owned one; I stopped watching the thing when I was a 
teenager. Bored me then, bores me worse now.

Just wanted to make one comment:

> wondering what has happened to the level of morality in our country!!

I'm not sure if "morality" is the right word here. I don't think there's 
anything inherently immoral about talking about menstruating during 
intercourse. I'd offer "modesty" in place of "morality" here, I think.

Have you read CS Lewis' "The Abolition of Man"?

CJ






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 06:36:03 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 06:36:03 -0000
Subject: Better movie than book: was Worst books ever read
In-Reply-To: <fpqsut+ev8b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpr38j+oir5@eGroups.com>

 
> Tifany:
> Some of Brooks stuff can be difficult to read, but easily the worst 
> was the book for the movie "The Last Boy Scout".  It was one of the 
> few times that the movie was better than the book was...


Kemper now:
For me, 'About a Boy' was a way better movie than a book.  
So was 'V for Vendetta'.  


Kemper, who imagines 'Watchmen' will also be better movie than a book
::fingers crossed::




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sun Feb 24 08:37:41 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:37:41 -0000
Subject: Profanity and wasting water (was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fppmgl+8jt7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpracl+k8a6@eGroups.com>

> BTW, you said something in another post about water being a 
renewable
> resource. Maybe you haven't been to the desert Southwest, where our
> rivers seldom have water in them and our artesian wells are drying 
out
> and collapsing and have to be supplemented with Colorado River 
water.
> Wastewater can be "reclaimed," though much of it goes to waste, and
> the water that is "reclaimed" can only be used for irrigation, not 
for
> drinking and bathing. Remember the "hose pipe" ban in OoP? In severe
> droughts (as opposed to the normal drought that we're always
> suffering), people are fined for watering their lawns and encouraged
> to take showers only about twice a week. (No one is fined for 
breaking
> that "rule," of course, but water is a precious resource, and it's
> getting scarcer here as the population grows. Too bad Arizona 
doesn't
> have a coastline; maybe we could build a desalinization plant.
> 
> Carol, sorry to disagree with Kemper on two points in one post!
>


In fact, there is a worldwide focus on water crisis and water shortage
The availability of drinking water is not adequate to the world 
population and is shrinking. Water is now an important element in 
many political conflicts.

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sun Feb 24 08:42:22 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:42:22 -0000
Subject: WAS freaks and geeks Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fppnab+mg0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fprale+8rga@eGroups.com>

So, to update you all, I did in fact write a very detailed (and very 
polite) letter to the owner.

He called me yesterday. He apologized. He agreed that the content was 
not appropriate for broadcoast in any video store, and was specifically 
contrary to his policy.  He said he had already spoken to the manager 
of the store, and to the female employee (who he said was brand new.) 

He said among other things that even if he disagreed with me (about the 
content being inappropriate, and in fact he did agree with me,) he 
would have hoped that his employees would have honored my request, and 
listened to my concerns.

I thanked him for his prompt and courteous response, and accepted his 
apology. 

Susan





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Feb 24 16:18:35 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:18:35 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WAS freaks and geeks Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fprale+8rga@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c87700$ea47f9b0$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[susanmcgee]:
| So, to update you all, I did in fact write a very detailed (and very 
| polite) letter to the owner.
| 
| He called me yesterday. He apologized. He agreed that the content was 
| not appropriate for broadcoast in any video store, and was 
| specifically 
| contrary to his policy.  He said he had already spoken to the manager 
| of the store, and to the female employee (who he said was brand new.) 
| 
| He said among other things that even if he disagreed with me 
| (about the 
| content being inappropriate, and in fact he did agree with me,) he 
| would have hoped that his employees would have honored my 
| request, and 
| listened to my concerns.
| 
| I thanked him for his prompt and courteous response, and accepted his 
| apology. 

[Lee]:
*Applauds Wildly!  Hugs Susan!*

Good goin'!  And it speaks well for the video store when you get not only a
prompt response, but a courteous one. :-)

Thank you for sharing this.  Made my day!

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Finally through with her head-ouch....so maybe I can finally get some
snoozles???)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb 24 16:40:18 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 24 Feb 2008 16:40:18 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/24/2008, 11:00 am 
Message-ID: <1203871218.15.83734.m47@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 24, 2008
11:00 am - 12:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK



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From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 24 18:12:55 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:12:55 -0000
Subject: Better movie than book: was Worst books ever read
In-Reply-To: <fpr38j+oir5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpsc37+omjr@eGroups.com>

> Kemper now:
>
> For me, 'About a Boy' was a way better movie than a book.  
So was 'V for Vendetta'.  


Kemper, who imagines 'Watchmen' will also be better movie than a book
::fingers crossed::

Tiffany:

I've not read the book for it, but the word is the book for "Watcher in 
the Woods" is vastly inferior to the Disney movie in 1981.  It was one 
of the few times Disney tried its hand into the ghost story & suspense 
market, as the typical family friendly live-action (ie. non-animated) 
movie was not en vogue.  The 1979-1985 era for Disney saw them going 
into a lot of dark fantasies & more suspensful flicks as a whole.




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Feb 24 18:40:11 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 24 Feb 2008 18:40:11 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 2/24/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1203878411.10.49997.m57@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday February 24, 2008
1:00 pm - 1:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
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From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Feb 24 21:37:18 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:37:18 -0000
Subject: Poul Anthony / Winter Solstsice
Message-ID: <fpso2e+jr5e@eGroups.com>

Susan wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/35515>:

<< I've always been a fan of the Queen of Air and Darkness, and just
read "House Rule".....thought about the Leaky Cauldron...anyone else
read this work?  >>

Potioncat replied in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/35516>:

<< I remember one that involves a boy who doesn't seem to have any
magic. They think he's a "Mundane".

Potioncat....who knows she read Poul Anderson, but is now wondering
if she's mixed him up with a different author. >>

Yes, Potioncat, you're thinking of Piers Anthony's Xanth series.

I don't recall 'House Rule' by name, but I suppose it's one of the
short stories about The Old Phoenix Inn, which appears wherever and
whenever it wants to, and people from different universes meet inside.
In one story, an Abelard whose Heloise had died in childbirth met an
Heloise whose Abelard had been killed (rather than merely castrated)
by her uncle Foulke.

OPERATION CHAOS is probably the most Potter-ish Anderson novel because
it's set in our normal world except with magic; it also includes a
trip to Hell. I liked it very much when I was young. I also liked the
Norse saga stuff -- HROLF KRAKI'S SAGA, THE BROKEN SWORD, the one
about Harald Hardraada ... I'm giving the wrong impression by not
mentioning any of his very many science-fiction (no magic) books ...

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/35521>:

<< Carol, who has yet to figure out why people refer to Christmas and
New Year's as occurring in midwinter when winter has barely begun >>

Because the theory that seasons BEGIN on the Solstice or Equinox is a
big modern hoax. If the season is defined by length of day, with
winter having short days and long nights, then whatever length is
defined as  'short', there are an equal number of short days before
the Winter Solstice and after it. And there are an equal number of
long days before the Summer Solstice as after it, which is why
Mid-Summer Day approximates the Summer Solstice -- or do you complain
that the play "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is set when Summer has
barely begun?

The above is something I have always believed, but (unlike my
conviction that putting the sentence's period inside the word's
quotation marks is a LIE and mis-attribution because the period is not
being quoted) it's not just my unimportant opinion -- a professional
astronomer has the same opinion:
<http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/badseasons.html>.





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Feb 24 22:21:02 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:21:02 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
In-Reply-To: <fpo9hv+3i7l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpsqke+77gn@eGroups.com>

 "Sheryll Townsend" <s_ings at ...> wrote:

> 
> Oh, wait! I nearly forgot!
> 
> *puts out two cauldrons, one marked "Potion for Youth" and one 
> marked "Potion for Wealth"*

Potioncat stumbles in, just back from a clown convention and way 
behind on news. She looks at the remains of the snapey decorations, 
cosiders the crumbs of chocolate cake and nibbles (chocolate never 
goes bad!)

Happy birthday Susan! I hope you chose youth..that is if you can be 
younger in body without having to relive the experiences.Well, 
whatever you chose, I hope you had the happiest of days!

Potioncat









From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Feb 24 22:28:58 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:28:58 -0000
Subject: 'Harry Potter' Is Addictive, Study Concludes
In-Reply-To: <47C0FD5B.2020005@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fpsr3a+tpon@eGroups.com>

 Lee Kaiwen  
 The implication of the reporting is that 
> these people are addicted to Harry Potter because Harry Potter is 
> addictive, when I strongly suspect the truth is the study is simply 
> rediscovering what we already know -- some people are easily 
addicted. 


> Tiffany:
> 
> I never really got all that hooked into the series to truly be 
addicted 
> to it, but I did dress as a Potter character several times for 
> Halloween, have some costumes, trading cards, & action figures, in 
> addition to the books & movies themselves.  I have some friends of 
mine 
> in college who have their dorm rooms decorated in Potter related 
> stuff.  I can easily relate, as I've seen a whole lot of rooms like 
it, 
> but that's not my cup of tea to get that hooked into it.  I have a 
> cousin who's really big into Trek, so I know all about addiction & 
the 
> lengths of addiction that some fans get to.


Potioncat:
Not responding to the article, which I didn't read, but to the posts 
about the article:

Ahem. 

Let's see, how can I say this in the kindest possible terms?

Forget the "they." If you're still reading HP boards and particularly 
if you're still posting...you're addicted.

That is, we are addicted.

Potioncat--who knows there are worse addictions out there, and glad 
she picked this one.






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Feb 24 22:54:54 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:54:54 -0000
Subject: Poul Anthony / Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fpso2e+jr5e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpssju+5upk@eGroups.com>

 "Catlady: 
> 
> Yes, Potioncat, you're thinking of Piers Anthony's Xanth series.

(Anthony) I also liked the
> Norse saga stuff -- HROLF KRAKI'S SAGA, THE BROKEN SWORD, the one
> about Harald Hardraada ... I'm giving the wrong impression by not
> mentioning any of his very many science-fiction (no magic) books ...

Potioncat:
Xanth! Yes. That's it. I've read and enjoyed both authors. I'll have 
to go back and re-read. 

 
> << Carol, who has yet to figure out why people refer to Christmas 
and
> New Year's as occurring in midwinter when winter has barely begun >>

> Catlady
> Because the theory that seasons BEGIN on the Solstice or Equinox is 
a
> big modern hoax. 

Potioncat:
I will add, that in many places, no matter what the calendar may say, 
by Christmas, and certainly by Jan it's already been winter for a 
long time!




From kat7555 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 24 23:25:36 2008
From: kat7555 at yahoo.com (kat7555)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:25:36 -0000
Subject: Better movie than book: was Worst books ever read
In-Reply-To: <fpr38j+oir5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpsudg+fc4e@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor" 
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Tifany:
> > Some of Brooks stuff can be difficult to read, but easily the worst 
> > was the book for the movie "The Last Boy Scout".  It was one of the 
> > few times that the movie was better than the book was...
> 
> 
> Kemper now:
> For me, 'About a Boy' was a way better movie than a book.  
> So was 'V for Vendetta'.  
> 
> 
I loved the movie Forrest Gump but I hated the book by Winston Groom. 
The book had none of the sweetness of the movie. My best friend and I 
saw the movie before buying the book. I'm glad we did because if I had 
read the book first I wouldn't have wanted to see the film. Kathy 
Kulesza
> 





From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Feb 25 00:11:41 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:11:41 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
In-Reply-To: <fpo9hv+3i7l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpt13t+rvn9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Sheryll Townsend"
<s_ings at ...> wrote:
>
> *puts out two cauldrons, one marked "Potion for Youth" and one 
> marked "Potion for Wealth"*
> 
> Snape said to let you know you can only pick one. If you try to drink 
> them both they'll cancel each other out. <vbeg>
>

My birthday is in November, so maybe it's okay for me to hint? Both of
those sound good, but a No More Backache Ever Potion sounds better. 

(Humpty Dumpty would surely suggest that goal could easily be achieved
by dying or by becoming incurably numb of the whole body, but that's
not what I have in mind.)





From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Feb 25 00:26:35 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:26:35 -0000
Subject: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fpssju+5upk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpt1vr+4vpd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...>
wrote:
>
> I will add, that in many places, no matter what the calendar may say, 
> by Christmas, and certainly by Jan it's already been winter for a 
> long time!
>

I figured that Carol in Arizona and I in Southern California are not
well suited to decide based on weather when mysterious seasons like
Winter and Summer begin. Even the familiar seasons like Rain and Fire
are acting crazy lately - Fire Season is supposed to run July through
October, not all year long!

But if a person living in a more conventional climate wanted to
proclaim that Autumn begins with the first frost, Autumn would begin
at different times in different places, which is not useful for
calendars that will be distributed all over a continent.

I don't know how to define the weather of the beginning of other
seasons. First Flower could be Spring, except that my New York memory
is that fairly often there's a warm spell in February, and the redbud
trees put out their red buds, and then there's another cold snap that
kills all the buds... and in April, when the sun has definitely come
out and melted the snow, and the grass has grown back, with flowers,
there's always a surprise blizzard in April.





From zgirnius at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 25 02:30:47 2008
From: zgirnius at yahoo.com (Zara)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 02:30:47 -0000
Subject: 'Harry Potter' Is Addictive, Study Concludes
In-Reply-To: <fpsr3a+tpon@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpt98n+b8pq@eGroups.com>

> Potioncat:
> Ahem. 
> 
> Let's see, how can I say this in the kindest possible terms?
> 
> Forget the "they." If you're still reading HP boards and particularly 
> if you're still posting...you're addicted.

zgirnius:
I'm a bit leery of using the term 'addiction', which I think may be 
overused nowadays. Though by your definition, I surely am. <g> 

Would the term be used of an offline hobby everyone considers "normal" 
that consumed equivalent amounts of time? Perhaps I was "addicted" to 
Judo, back in the days when I was serious about competing at the 
national level. Between practices (2 hours each) 4-7 days a week, some 
in locations 1+ hours from home, weightlifting most days, running most 
days, and the occasional tournament, clinic, or social activities with 
my Judo clubs, I probably spent MORE time on that. I had dreams about 
it. I gave up other things I liked to accommodate it. I've never seen 
an analysis of addiction to sports, though. (And no, HP did not drag me 
away from this obsession - becoming a mother did. HP is a hobby far 
more compatible with my new lifestyle. <g>)

Also, I feel the effect of participating in fandom on my life had been, 
if anything, positive. I write better and more easily than before, 
something I notice even at work. I have met interesting new people from 
around the world, some even in person. 




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 25 06:06:57 2008
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:06:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpn2ue+gl25@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <681842.57308.qm@web53003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

"Freaks and Geeks" was the greatest show in a every long time. The best since "Square Pegs" . Quit teasing me.
   
  Alex Hogan

kempermentor <kempermentor at yahoo.com> wrote:
          
> > Kemper
> > ... I think my problem is that the situation as presented
> > seems to embrace ignorance though censorship before seeking
> > knowledge: guilty until proven innocent. 

> Susan: 
> No, I don't think I was "embracing ignorance through censorship before 
> seeking knowledge"..I was responding SPECIFICALLY to the language 
> and dialogue on the screen while I was in the store.
> 
> And, actually, I have been in several different video stores every 
> other month for about 8 years...
> AND, I have NEVER seen such language or 
> scenes on the screen. Most video stores are very careful just to 
> show family friendly videos.

Kemper now:
It's a family show. I question whether you actually watched it. Did
the clerk give you the name? Perhaps they lied to you or you misheard
the name. 

Still, it sounds as though you reacted, responding would be seeking
knowledge (of course, perhaps the clerks weren't very eloquent). 
Censoring is a knee jerk reaction... which I'm all for if porn was
being shown in the area of young kids, same goes for rated R or M
movie/shows. 

Kemper



                         

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 25 06:13:51 2008
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:13:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Silly old songs (Was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpi1nd+ilkv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <804549.62753.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

For me, it's nothing but 80's music.
   
  Alex Hogan

Carol <justcarol67 at yahoo.com> wrote:
          Susan: 
> For those of us old, old, Harry Potter for Grownups fans, let me 
> recommend mymusicmaker.com....it has music from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 
> 60s, and 70s...you can pick songs and add them to a cd for a charge...
> 
> I ordered a cd with songs from my childhood (50s in the U.S.)...
beep beep (the little nash rambler song), yakety yak, the little blue
man, the witch doctor, the purple people eater, the itsy bitsy teeny
weeny yellow polka dot bikini, tell laura I love her, teen angel, 
calendar girl, and more totally silly stuff...
> 
> My kids just love them.....
> 
> So, I've totally dated myself, who else remembers these songs?

Carol responds:

Oh, yes. I remember those songs (except "The Little Blue Man").
Do you also remember that "Teen Angel" was banned in Britain for being
too violent or some such thing? (And, certainly, it's a disturbing
song, about as different from "My friend, the witch doctor, he told me
what to say . . . he said say 'ooh ee ooh ah ah, ting tang walla walla
bing bang'" as possible). BTW, I think you should add "Love Potion
Number Nine" to your list. It fits right in with "the witch
Doctor"--and Harry Potter.

Carol, now trying to get "Tell Laura I lo-ove her, tell Laura I
nee-eed her, tell Laura not to cry, my love for her will never die"
out of her head



                         

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 25 15:06:26 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:06:26 -0000
Subject: Stand by Me (was Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpgjvs+4ljo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpulhi+g7c8@eGroups.com>

 
> Susan:
> For those of us old, old, Harry Potter for Grownups fans, let me 
> recommend mymusicmaker.com....it has music from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 
> 60s, and 70s...you can pick songs and add them to a cd for a charge...
> 
> I ordered a cd with songs from my childhood (50s in the U.S.)...
> beep beep (the little nash rambler song), yakety yak, the little blue 
> man, the witch doctor, the purple people eater, the itsy bitsy teeny 
> weeny yellow polka dot bikini, tell laura I love her, teen angel, 
> calendar girl, and more totally silly stuff...
> 
> My kids just love them.....
> 
> So, I've totally dated myself, who else remembers these songs?


Kemper now:
While I wasn't around when those songs were hits, I was around for the
movie, 'Stand by Me'.  It's a great coming-of-age movie, which I
recommend to all.  

The soundtrack, which I had on cassette and was stolen out of my '74
Plymouth Valiant parked at my high school as I marched around a field
playing Shehrazad (sp?), contained some fun but apparently 'silly old
songs': Yakety Yak, Lollipop, Great Balls of Fire, Everyday, Mr. Lee
(Mr. Lee, Hey!, Mr. Lee), and of course Stand by Me... though I would
not label that one as 'silly'.

Kemper




From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb 25 15:30:40 2008
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:30:40 -0000
Subject: More birthday treats!
Message-ID: <fpumv0+obtd@eGroups.com>

*Shorty tumbles into the room, snaps her fingers and watches as the 
remnants of her own party vanish, then dashes about putting up 
brightly colored balloons & streamers, tossing confetti and double-
checking the cases of Butterbeer*

There, that ought to do!  

Shorty Elf hopes Marlo will forgive her for being a day late clearing 
out the last party's remnants and bringing in the new.  But Shorty 
was a little birthday-partied out, she was... needed a little 
recovery time herself, she did, oh yes.  

But it is fun to celebrate with another, isn't it, Marlo?  You and 
Finwitch can have your party together!  *bats eyelashes*

I've brought enough treats for both parties!  Cake, eclairs, and a 
sampling of Honeydukes' finest... with Butterbeer, ginger beer and 
gillywater from Rosmerta's!

Be sure to send birthday greetings to Marlo at dzny72 at yahoo.com
and to Finwitch at finwitch at yahoo.com

And now... dig in, everyone!

Shorty Elf





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Feb 25 20:34:32 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:34:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] More birthday treats!
In-Reply-To: <fpumv0+obtd@eGroups.com>
References: <fpumv0+obtd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c877ed$d4101f40$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Shorty Elf]:
| I've brought enough treats for both parties!  Cake, eclairs, and a 
| sampling of Honeydukes' finest... with Butterbeer, ginger beer and 
| gillywater from Rosmerta's!

[Lee]:
Ah--all that lovely chocolate!!!  I do like double birthdays!  Happy
Birthday, Ladies.

Smile,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From hrtbkr_babylove at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 25 21:44:57 2008
From: hrtbkr_babylove at yahoo.com (Sabella Raevyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:44:57 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Cards
Message-ID: <fpvcsp+rtdl@eGroups.com>

Does anyone have any extra Harry Potter Cards? Please
let me know.
Thank you.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 02:40:24 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:40:24 -0000
Subject: Profanity and wasting water (was: Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpqen0+ke0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpvu6o+sja1@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote:
> > > 'Fuck' is such a powerful word, so the line seems thin even
though it exists. <snip>
> > 
> > Carol responded:
> > Is it? Maybe it used to be, but so did "damn" once upon a time. Both
> > of them have, IMO, lost all their power and effectiveness through
> > overuse. 
> 
Kemper again:
> As many people are still offended by it, I think the power exists. I
encourage youth who overuse it, to use it like salt: a little bit for
taste, but too much takes away from the meat of their story,
conversation, requests, or any other bland/juicy discourse.
> 
Carol earlier:
> > BTW, you said something in another post about water being a
renewable resource. Maybe you haven't been to the desert Southwest,
where our rivers seldom have water in them and our artesian wells are
drying out and collapsing and have to be supplemented with Colorado
River water.
> 
> Kemper now:
> I think you are confusing me with someone else. Montims said water
was finite resource, than Random replied with something random that I
didn't quite get.
> 
> I spent my jr high and high school years in ugly Las Vegas, NV.
> 
> Kemper, who takes 2.5 minute showers and thinks we only disagree on
the one thing :)
>
Carol again:
Good. Sorry about the misattribution. And since you agree with me that
too much profanity or obscenity in conversation or a work of fiction
quickly loses its effect, we don't disagree all that strongly on the
first point, either.

Carol, who still thinks that the use of that sort of language is a
sign of impotence, not strength, and reflects either a lack of
originality or temporary brain paralysis resulting from intemperate
anger (yeah, I've been there on occasion and am not proud of it)




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 02:51:12 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:51:12 -0000
Subject: WAS freaks and geeks Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fprale+8rga@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fpvur0+i6uv@eGroups.com>

susanmcgee wrote:
>
> So, to update you all, I did in fact write a very detailed (and very 
> polite) letter to the owner.
> 
> He called me yesterday. He apologized. He agreed that the content
was not appropriate for broadcoast in any video store, and was
specifically contrary to his policy.  He said he had already spoken to
the manager of the store, and to the female employee (who he said was
brand new.) 
> 
> He said among other things that even if he disagreed with me (about
the content being inappropriate, and in fact he did agree with me,) he
would have hoped that his employees would have honored my request, and
listened to my concerns.
> 
> I thanked him for his prompt and courteous response, and accepted
his apology. 
> 
> Susan
>
Carol responds:
Way to go, Susan! Sounds like you handled the situation perfectly--and
so did the store owner.

Carol, cheering courtesy and common sense




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 03:13:04 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:13:04 -0000
Subject: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fpso2e+jr5e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq0040+63oo@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/35521>:
> 
> << Carol, who has yet to figure out why people refer to Christmas
and New Year's as occurring in midwinter when winter has barely begun >>
> 
> Because the theory that seasons BEGIN on the Solstice or Equinox is
a big modern hoax. If the season is defined by length of day, with
winter having short days and long nights, then whatever length is
defined as  'short', there are an equal number of short days before
the Winter Solstice and after it. And there are an equal number of
long days before the Summer Solstice as after it, which is why
Mid-Summer Day approximates the Summer Solstice -- or do you complain
that the play "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is set when Summer has
barely begun?
> 
> The above is something I have always believed, but (unlike my
> conviction that putting the sentence's period inside the word's
> quotation marks is a LIE and mis-attribution because the period is not
> being quoted) it's not just my unimportant opinion -- a professional
> astronomer has the same opinion:
> <http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/badseasons.html>.
>
Carol responds:
Hi, Catlady. I'd say "big modern hoax" is stretching the point a bit,
but I see your argument and that of the person whose site you
recommended. However, as he conceded, people need a way to mark the
beginning rather than the middle of the season, and if we look at
weather (which I do, even in Tucson, where "winter" is as cold as fall
elsewhere), winter really does begin around the 21 o2 22 of December
(depending on whether it's a Leap Year). I remember in Flagstaff when
I was a child, we sometimes had a white Christmas but almost always
had a white New Year's Day. Why? Because winter had gotten into full
swing and was not just beginning. By the same token, the flowers in
northern latitudes start blooming in mid-to-late March (earlier here
in Tucson, of course, but that's a matter of elevation and latitude
combined), right around the time of the Vernal Equinox, and that's why
we celebrate the begining of spring, not Mid-Spring Day (no such
animal) at that point. I understand that the ancient Romans and Celts
were celebrating the lengthening days with Yule and Saturnalia, but
that doesn't make that time of year midwinter. If we look at weather,
as well as considering December 22 as the beginning of winter, I'd say
it's midwinter now, and those people (I'm not one of them) who are
driving on snow to work probably agree with me.

I see the logic of your position, but I don't agree with it.

Carol, who vaguely recalls wondering about the date of "Midsummer
Night" with regard to Shakespeare's play when she first read it, just
as she wondered about Christina Rossetti's "In the Deep Midwinter," a
Christmas hymn




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 03:32:50 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:32:50 -0000
Subject: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fpt1vr+4vpd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq0192+56sv@eGroups.com>

Catlady:
> I figured that Carol in Arizona and I in Southern California are not
> well suited to decide based on weather when mysterious seasons like
> Winter and Summer begin. Even the familiar seasons like Rain and Fire
> are acting crazy lately - Fire Season is supposed to run July through
> October, not all year long!
> 
> But if a person living in a more conventional climate wanted to
> proclaim that Autumn begins with the first frost, Autumn would begin
> at different times in different places, which is not useful for
> calendars that will be distributed all over a continent.
> 
> I don't know how to define the weather of the beginning of other
> seasons. First Flower could be Spring, except that my New York
memory is that fairly often there's a warm spell in February, and the
redbud trees put out their red buds, and then there's another cold
snap that kills all the buds... and in April, when the sun has
definitely come out and melted the snow, and the grass has grown back,
with flowers, there's always a surprise blizzard in April.
>
Carol:
Since this list is an offshoot of HPfGu, we can always go by the
seasons in Britain. <grin!> It's midwinter there, I think, meaning
that the calendar is right (for them).

All of this brings to mind a children's song I used to have on a
little yellow (or was it red?) 78 rpm record (showing my age, I
know--it wasn't a 45):

January brings the snow,
February brings the rain,
March brings breezes that will blow
April showers once again.
May brings cherry blossoms, wine,
June brings tulips, roses sweet.
Hot July brings sunshine bright, 
August brings the corn and wheat. 
Warm September brings the sheaves, 
Bright October, fruit is here
Cold November swirling leaves, 
Then December, Christmas* cheer.

Not universal, maybe (for Northern latitudes, I mean), but close
enough (though I don't recall tulips in June; I think of them as
blooming in May). But it fits the traditional seasonal pattern as most
people (other than those in California, Florida, or Southern Arizona
experience them).

Carol, who thought that "sheaves" was "sheep" when she learned the
song around age five or six

*The song dates from the 1950s or earlier, long before political
correctness




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 03:48:07 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:48:07 -0000
Subject: Stand by Me (was Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fpulhi+g7c8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq025n+gglp@eGroups.com>

Kemper now:
> While I wasn't around when those songs were hits, I was around for the
> movie, 'Stand by Me'.  It's a great coming-of-age movie, which I
> recommend to all.  
> 
> The soundtrack, which I had on cassette and was stolen out of my '74
> Plymouth Valiant parked at my high school as I marched around a
field playing Shehrazad (sp?), contained some fun but apparently
'silly old songs': Yakety Yak, Lollipop, Great Balls of Fire,
Everyday, Mr. Lee (Mr. Lee, Hey!, Mr. Lee), and of course Stand by
Me... though I would not label that one as 'silly'.
> 
> Kemper


Carol responds:
"Scheherazade" by Rimsky-Korsakov, do you mean? It's based, of course,
on the Arabian Nights stories that Scheherazade told to her husband to
keep herself alive or 1,001 nights. My parents used to have the whole
suite on an LP album (38 rpm, IIRC).

Yes, "Stand by Me" is a great little coming-of-age movie. I also
recommend the old "Crime Story" series, made in the 80s but set in the
very early sixties (when men still wore hats), if you like music from
that era. "Stand by Me" was used very effectively in the pilot for
that series. And Ted Levine as Frank Holman, a crook turned rockabilly
singer, is hilarious singing duets with a defecting MIG pilot in one
of the Las Vegas episodes.

Anyway, anyone nostalgic for music, cars, clothes, and hairstyles from
that era should see the whole series, which unfortunately lasted only
two seasons. (Lots of violence, of course, but lots of comedy as well.)

Carol, who used to post on a now (probably) defunct "Crime Story"
messageboard before switching to HPfGu





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 05:29:21 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:29:21 -0000
Subject: Stand by Me (was Freaks and Geeks)
In-Reply-To: <fq025n+gglp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq083h+k8ms@eGroups.com>


> Carol responds:
> "Scheherazade" by Rimsky-Korsakov, do you mean? It's based, of course,
> on the Arabian Nights stories that Scheherazade told to her husband to
> keep herself alive or 1,001 nights. 

Kemper now:
That's the one. Obviously, it was an abridgment or maybe it was just
the first movement.  We also played Ben-Hur... I think my band teacher
was on a mid-eastern kick.  

Kemper, who hasn't played in an age and wants to rent a euphonium so
he can play in Tubachristmas




From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 06:35:21 2008
From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:35:21 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, SSSusan!
In-Reply-To: <fpt13t+rvn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq0bv9+m71n@eGroups.com>

> > Sheryll wrote:
> >
> > *puts out two cauldrons, one marked "Potion for Youth" and one
> > marked "Potion for Wealth"*
> > 
> > Snape said to let you know you can only pick one. If you try to 
> > drink them both they'll cancel each other out. <vbeg>

Mike:
I say Snape was lying, go ahead Suse, drink 'em both. Oh yeah, Happy 
B-day m'dear, a couple of days late.


> Catlady:
> Both of those sound good, but a No More Backache Ever Potion
> sounds better. 
> 
> (Humpty Dumpty would surely suggest that goal could easily be
> achieved by dying or by becoming incurably numb of the whole 
> body, but that's not what I have in mind.)

Mike:
I would have thought Humpty Dumpty would opt for over easy, sunny 
side up not treating the whole pain, as it were. <bg>




From bekkio at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 09:01:32 2008
From: bekkio at gmail.com (Bekkio)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:01:32 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fpqqfh+3seb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq0khc+jucg@eGroups.com>

Hi Lilo,

In choosing between Portus and Terminus, a lot of it comes down to convenience and personal 
preference. Many people have gone to both HPEF's events and Narrate's event and had an equally 
good time.

HPEF has a longer track record and greater resources to bring to bear on its conferences. HPEF is also 
building a broader network of organizing talent, mainly because it does not rely on the same team of 
people who are directly responsible for the conference each time. This provides us with more 
diversity of ideas and less risk of burnout, while simultaneously providing the organizers with the 
benefit of our experience and a continuity of purpose from year to year. We have learned many things 
from our experiences with our conferences to date (Nimbus - 2003, The Witching Hour, Lumos, and 
Prophecy).

I believe the average attendee could reasonably have a good time at either conference. Portus - 2008 
is uniquely positioned among HPEF conferences because its team is so well-balanced between 
experienced HPEF organizers and new and talented staff. 

In addition, one of the things HPEF strives to do for its conferences is to provide our attendees with a 
luxury experience at an affordable price. The Hilton Anatole is a prime example of how HPEF brings a 
little "resort" vacationing into its mix. As with Nimbus - 2003 and Lumos, Portus - 2008 is being held 
at a highly respected and very sumptuous venue, which we are able to offer to our attendees at prices 
below the usual available discounts and promotional fees. This allows our registrants to experience a 
little pampering along with their predilections for Potter.

Ultimately, any conference is what you, the attendee, make of your experience. Portus offers its 
attendees a wonderful selection of special guests, including Dr. Henry Jenkins of MIT, Ms. Monique 
Trottier, formerly of Raincoast Books, and Dr. Edmund Kern, who presented "Snape's Eyes" at Lumos 
2008. 

You can find more information about Portus' schedule on our website - www.portus2008.org.  Please 
don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions about Portus.

Regards,
Bekki Olivieri
Minister of Magic, Portus 2008

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "lilollu" <lilollu at ...> wrote:
>
> Hello, I'm new here and actually I've never been to a
> convention of any kind. I really want to go this year
> either to Portus or Terminus 2008. I'm pretty sure I
> wouldn't be able to go to two so can I elicit your
> advice about which I should look into? I don't really
> know what's what when it comes to fan stuff. I'm
> worried about the total cost, but I just want to get
> the most out of my experience. Thanks for any advice
> you guys might offer.
> -Lilo
>




From jnferr at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 13:10:29 2008
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:10:29 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fq0040+63oo@eGroups.com>
References: <fpso2e+jr5e@eGroups.com> <fq0040+63oo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40802260510u6442ca93sadebc85d0f0a0f00@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Carol responds:
> Hi, Catlady. I'd say "big modern hoax" is stretching the point a bit,
> but I see your argument and that of the person whose site you
> recommended. However, as he conceded, people need a way to mark the
> beginning rather than the middle of the season, and if we look at
> weather (which I do, even in Tucson, where "winter" is as cold as fall
> elsewhere), winter really does begin around the 21 o2 22 of December
> (depending on whether it's a Leap Year). I remember in Flagstaff when
> I was a child, we sometimes had a white Christmas but almost always
> had a white New Year's Day. Why? Because winter had gotten into full
> swing and was not just beginning. By the same token, the flowers in
> northern latitudes start blooming in mid-to-late March (earlier here
> in Tucson, of course, but that's a matter of elevation and latitude
> combined), right around the time of the Vernal Equinox, and that's why
> we celebrate the begining of spring, not Mid-Spring Day (no such
> animal) at that point. I understand that the ancient Romans and Celts
> were celebrating the lengthening days with Yule and Saturnalia, but
> that doesn't make that time of year midwinter. If we look at weather,
> as well as considering December 22 as the beginning of winter, I'd say
> it's midwinter now, and those people (I'm not one of them) who are
> driving on snow to work probably agree with me.


montims:
Well, as a pagan, I celebrate the crossquarters as well as the solstices,
and I celebrate the winter solstice as the shortest day by bringing back the
sun, and summer solstice is celebrated as the longest day.  At the vernal
equinox and the autumnal equinox, the days and nights are exactly the same
length.  That is a good enough indication of the wheel of the year to me,
and something I hang on to really strongly, now I live in Minnesota, where
the winter seems to last until May...  I would say the solstices could be
described as midsummer and midwinter for the very reason that, despite the
temperature, the days would start to get shorter and longer respectively
thereafter, and the season would therefore inexorably change accordingly...

In England when I lived there, the temperature did not really vary by more
than 20 or so degrees all year round, except for the "cold snap" in winter,
lasting a couple of days, and the "phew, what a scorcher", in summer, ditto,
though it seemed to last longer, and is reflected in the hosepipe ban
mention in OotP...

As for dear Christina Rossetti, I adore that song, especially when sung to
its original tune, but it suffers from the assumption that a) Jesus was born
at Yule (which I am not disputing here, as we have all discussed this) and
b) Yule in Bethlehem was under the same weather conditions as Northern
Europe...  I find this endearing, as I do Renaissance paintings of the
Assumption, for example, where the Angel Gabriel appears to Mary in a Tuscan
villa, with a chequered marble floor, and Florence to be seen from the
windows...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 18:31:21 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:31:21 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fq0khc+jucg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq1ltp+omvb@eGroups.com>

Bekkio wrote:

> In choosing between Portus and Terminus, a lot of it comes down to
convenience and personal preference. Many people have gone to both
HPEF's events and Narrate's event and had an equally good time.

<snip>

> Ultimately, any conference is what you, the attendee, make of your
experience. Portus offers its attendees a wonderful selection of
special guests, including <snip> Dr. Edmund Kern, who presented
"Snape's Eyes" at Lumos 2008. <snip>

Carol responds:
Forgive me for responding since I'm not the original questioner and
have no plans to attend any conference, but your post, while
informative, leaves several questions unanswered.

What are HBEF and Narrate? When and where are the two conferences
(Portus and Terminus) and what's the difference in cost?

Also, the paper on "Snape's Eyes" sounds interesting. Is it posted on
the Internet anywhere? If so, Id appreciate a link.

Carol, whose only experience with conventions relates to the MLA
(Modern Language Association)





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Feb 26 19:31:08 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:31:08 -0000
Subject: Seasons
Message-ID: <fq1pds+fl3d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)"
<catlady at ...>
wrote:

Carol:
> who has yet to figure out why people refer to Christmas and
> New Year's as occurring in midwinter when winter has barely begun >>

Catlady:
> Because the theory that seasons BEGIN on the Solstice or Equinox is a
> big modern hoax. If the season is defined by length of day, with
> winter having short days and long nights, then whatever length is
> defined as 'short', there are an equal number of short days before
> the Winter Solstice and after it. And there are an equal number of
> long days before the Summer Solstice as after it, which is why
> Mid-Summer Day approximates the Summer Solstice -- or do you complain
> that the play "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is set when Summer has
> barely begun?

Geoff:
I see where you're coming from, but here in England at least, we look
upon the season changes as starting round about the times of the
Solstices.

Personally, I always visualise the length of days as approximating to
a sine curve in Maths where the dips and troughs correspond to the
relevant Solstice. As we approach the Winter Solstice, for example,
the length of the day changes almost imperceptibly in the last few days
leading up to 21st December and then afterwards, the change is
equally gradual until you get to, say, yesterday, when I suddenly
realsed it was still fairly light until about 5.45.

But this isn't the case with the weather. Here, certainly, we usually
expect the coldest spells of weather and possibly the wettest in
January and February which are more disliked by us than October
or November.

Similarly, although April and May are the same distance from the
June Solstice temporally speaking, July and August always see
better, more settled and hotter weather; hence, we do look upon
the Solstices as being the beginning of the season changes - or
at least nearer to the beginning than the midpoint.




From sabrina at narrateconferences.org  Tue Feb 26 19:39:44 2008
From: sabrina at narrateconferences.org (Sabrina)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:39:44 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fq1ltp+omvb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq1pu0+egjr@eGroups.com>

Hi Carol (and everyone else)!

My name is Sabrina and I think I can shed some light on the 
subject.  I'm the Chief Technology Officer for Narrate Conferences, 
Inc., a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, and I've been heavily 
involved in their last two Harry Potter conferences.  I don't check 
in regularly around here, so if you have any questions, feel free to 
e-mail me at sabrina[AT]narrateconferences[DOT]org or check out our 
current Potter conference, Terminus, which will be held this August 
in Chicago, at www[DOT]terminus2008[DOT]org.

Narrate Conferences, Inc. and HPEF are both organizations that 
present conferences.  I'm sure Bekki can speak more completely to 
HPEF's mission and goals, so I'll leave that to her, but Narrate was 
formed to create amazing conferences for teen and adult scholars, 
educators, librarians, artists, writers and fans on a variety of 
topics, including Harry Potter. We like to create weekend events 
that draw a variety of people in to celebrate not only the topic ? 
in this case, Harry Potter ? but the community around the topic.  
Almost all of our team has been in the fandom for years and years ? 
I came in during 2001! ? and it's given so much to us that we want 
to give back to it.

Our current event is Terminus, which is a Harry Potter conference 
that will take place August 7-11, 2008, in downtown Chicago, 
Illinois, at the absolutely fantastic, historic Hilton Chicago 
Hotel.  The cost for five days of conference is currently $160, 
which includes two full meals, admission to almost all programming 
and events, and an attendee-only t-shirt.  (Keynote presentations, 
professional Quidditch and our Trivia Tournament bear an additional 
fee to cover the participants' meals or team t-shirts.)  If you're a 
fan of wizard rock, you can also add an option sixth day of 
conference for only $20; on August 6, we're putting on a 25-band, 
three-stage wizard rock festival that we're pretty sure is the 
largest wizard rock ever held.

The conference itself will be a mix of the sorts of programming you 
generally find at traditional academic conferences (papers, 
presentations, panels) and more informal events, such as a ball and 
a night focused entirely on fandom creativity (podcasting, 
fanfiction, fanart, etc.).  (We just finished our vetting process, 
and we'll start releasing our accepted proposals on our website in 
the next couple weeks.  I've seen the acceptances, though, and the 
programming will be an amazing mix of traditional literary analysis, 
fan studies, educational topics and even legal and professional 
presentations, all related to Harry Potter.)

These conferences tend to be a wonderful opportunity to interact 
with other fans of Harry Potter in person, to listen to theories, to 
debate analyses, to play a bit of Quidditch and perhaps take in some 
wizard rock.  Most importantly, though, is the chance to be with 
other fans.  There's truly nothing like a thousand Harry Potter fans 
in one place for one weekend.

Again, if you have questions, please check out our website or e-mail 
me. We're always happy to help.

Cheers,
Sabrina





From dzny72 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 26 22:30:37 2008
From: dzny72 at yahoo.com (Marlo Abernathy)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:30:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More birthday treats!
Message-ID: <965266.68456.qm@web51701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the birthday wishes!  It was a perfect day--my husband cleaned the entire house for me the day before; I didn't have to cook all weekend; and we had an HP movie marathon on Sunday!  I am not sure who enjoyed the day more--me or my 9 year old!
   
  Dzny72
  aka Marlo

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 27 01:09:49 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 01:09:49 -0000
Subject: Celeb Gossip: Dan buys Another $4Mil NY Flat
Message-ID: <fq2d8t+pj7i@eGroups.com>

Yes, I know this is hardly more than gossip, but apparently Dan
has purchased a second +$4 million condo in NY. Though it is 
not clear why he needs two. Maybe these are just real estate
investments, or perhaps he plans to sell the first. This second
one is in or near the West Village with a ocean/river front view.

If you would like to take a tour of his new place, it's pretty
nice. 2,450 sq ft in the corner of the building with three
bedrooms and, I think, 3.5 baths. Not as classy as his other 
apartment, but still nice.

Here is a link to photos -
http://radaronline.com/photos/2008/02/daniel_radcliffe_four_million_apartment_harry_potter_equus_s.php

Step through a series of photos by clicking on 'Next'.

It is not clear if this is literally his apartment or if it
is simply a current real estate listing for a similar apartment
in the same building. 

Still, nice place, but holy crappoly, nearly $5 million for
2450 sq ft. You can buy a large mansion with grounds for that
in Minnesota.

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 27 01:36:33 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 01:36:33 -0000
Subject: Celeb Gossip: Dan buys Another $4Mil NY Flat
In-Reply-To: <fq2d8t+pj7i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq2er1+fhcq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I know this is hardly more than gossip, but apparently Dan
> has purchased a second +$4 million condo in NY. ...

bboyminn:

For quick reference, here is a link to Dan's first apartment -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/34589

Steve




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 01:59:40 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:59:40 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Celeb Gossip: Dan buys Another $4Mil NY Flat
In-Reply-To: <fq2d8t+pj7i@eGroups.com>
References: <fq2d8t+pj7i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0802261759k755a87dcqac854d1eac30acbc@mail.gmail.com>

Steve:
>  If you would like to take a tour of his new place, it's pretty
>  nice. 2,450 sq ft in the corner of the building with three
>  bedrooms and, I think, 3.5 baths. Not as classy as his other
>  apartment, but still nice.
>
>  Still, nice place, but holy crappoly, nearly $5 million for
>  2450 sq ft. You can buy a large mansion with grounds for that
>  in Minnesota.

Oh sure.  You can buy a mansion pretty much anywhere in the Midwest
for those prices (and don't think I didn't consider things like that
when I accepted my first job out of college and my parents wanted to
know why I didn't want to move back home).  However, seeing as the
tiny studio near me (in Philadelphia) is going for a "mere" $750K and
this city's cost of living is lower than NYC's, I'd say that a $5M 3
BR, 3.5 BA flat isn't unreasonable in, oh, any sense of the word
(except in the sense of the word that conveys the obscenely high cost
of living in cities like NYC).

NYC flats (especially those pesky UWS ones): a good investment since
it doesn't look like there's going to be a mass exodus out of the city
soon.

~Ali, who is considering a move to NYC and is terrified of costs



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 27 02:45:00 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:45:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Freaks and Geeks
In-Reply-To: <fpa9ek+39dg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <120210.72258.qm@web63404.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> Mary Ann:
> 
> 
> I haven't heard of this show, much less watched it
> (I'm in the UK) but 
> I doubt that the video store would show any show or
> movie above PG-13.  
> We need to get Sheryll's attention ***whips out a
> photo of Alan Rickman 
> and a bottle of Dr. Pepper*** and ask what the
> Canadian Blockbuster 
> policy is.  IMO, provided the rating is not above
> PG-13 I see no reason 
> to turn the TV off.  Despite having 3 kids and
> working with children I 
> do not believe that the shops are obligated to cater
> entirely at a 
> child's level.  The majority of the video shop
> customers are, I assume, 
> adults, and therefore the shop's advertising would
> be geared towards 
> them.  If something in a shop offends me I vote with
> my feet and my 
> wallet, and go elsewhere.
> 
Sheryll:

Yeah, the Alan Rickman photo and a Dr. Pepper might
have done the trick sooner if I'd actually been
inclined to poke about on Amanda's computer instead of
enjoying her company and the delightful sunshine of
San Antonio. Now that I'm home, however, you have my
full attention. Unless you're the one who arranged for
it to snow for my return home! 

*open the Dr. Pepper, slides the photo of Alan Rickman
under the keyboard for safekeeping* :D

Okay, on to Blockbuster's stance on what to watch.
Now, Canada doesn't have the same ratings as the US.
Our ratings are:
G - all ages
PG - Parental Guidance
14A - can't be rented to anyone under 14 (or, as a
theatre rating, under 14 must be accompanied by an
adult)
18A - can't be rented to anyone under 18 (or, as a
theatre rating, under 18 must be accompanied by an
adult)
R - No one under 18 admitted to the theatre. Not sure
why they sometimes use this on DVDs, but they do. 

Canadian Blockbuster stores only play G or PG rated
films before 9 p.m. After 9 we can venture into the
14A territory, but with restrictions. No nudity,
nothing sexual and as little profanity as possible.
The F word is not allowed, but the occasional mild
profanity is okay. One would presume that small
children wouldn't be in the store late in the evening,
though I've seen some parents drag children under the
age about 10 in around closing time on a weeknight (11
pm for our store, midnight for busier locations).

That said, the same rules would not necessarily apply
at all US locations. All Canadian stores are owned by
Blockbuster but some US locations are independently
owned franchises, so not sure how strictly they follow
these guidelines. 

I can't remember now who mentioned the playing of DVDs
strictly for the soundtrack, but we do that a lot.
It's not that we can't see the TV screens from our
cashes, either. It's just that we're generally too
busy to watch anything. I keep my personal copy of The
Last Waltz at work because a few of us love to sing
along while we work (preferably when there are no
customers around - singing on key is not my forte!).
One of my fellow shift leads even got caught dancing
along to a DVD once when she thought she was alone in
the store. :D

Btw, we also have a DVD of trailers for the new
releases for the month. That gets played every evening
from 6-9.

Sheryll, imparting more than you probably cared to
know 

Join the fun at Convention Alley 2008



      Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 27 06:29:08 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:29:08 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fpqqfh+3seb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq2vvk+lli7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "lilollu" <lilollu at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello, I'm new here and actually I've never been to a
> convention of any kind. I really want to go this year
> either to Portus or Terminus 2008. I'm pretty sure I
> wouldn't be able to go to two so can I elicit your
> advice about which I should look into? I don't really
> know what's what when it comes to fan stuff. I'm
> worried about the total cost, but I just want to get
> the most out of my experience. Thanks for any advice
> you guys might offer.

Tonks_op

I have been to 4 conferences. I loved them all. Be sure to make or 
have someone make a Wizard/Witch outfit for you. Some of the college 
age folks dress as Hogwarts students, us older ones as other 
characters, or one of the Professors. The conferences can be rather 
expensive with the transportation, but worth every penny. The 
presentation are great, and there is so much going on, something for 
everyone. 

Some of the things I have enjoyed from the past ones are:
1. a reenactment of the grave yard scene from GOF. I understand the 
the Wizard Rock concert following that was invaded by a band of 
Death Eaters. I can't handle loud music so I missed that.

2. Seeing Mrs. Black in person with her picture frame. She stopped 
every few yards to yell at the people walking by. So funny!

3. Seeing all of the great costumes that people were wearing to the 
Ball. I even meant Rowena Ravenclaw. 

4. Taking over the town of Salem, MA and adding to the charm of the 
city. The regular tourist loved seeing us all there. It just 
seemed 'right' to see all of these witches and wizards taking over 
the town. 

I missed seeing Tom Felton, who had come to Salem to see a 'real' 
Quidditch match. It was raining so hard I didn't go out to see it, 
but they played anyway and he was there. The Quidditch team got 
their pictures taken with him!! (Reminds me of the time that Mother 
Teresa walked right past me early one morning while I was fiddling 
with my camera on a trip to Rome and I missed seeing her. If only I 
had looked up... Story of my life!)

5. The Room of Requirement that was made into a memorial for each of 
those who had died. And I brought a sock to place on Dobby's grave. 
Other had left items too at each of the shrines. Very touching.

6. There are different contest. I enjoyed watching the Wizard Duel. 
And there is always Quidditch, of course. 

7. The presentation are very good and thought provoking. Some of the 
speaker are people like John Granger and Steve VanderArk. 

You will love it. Find a way to go, even if you have to save all 
year to do it. You will never regret it. You will meet many 
wonderful people too who share your passion for Harry Potter. We 
love Professor Snape! I even heard of a young couple who met at a 
convention and later married. At their wedding they gave each guest 
a Harry Potter chocolate frog. ;-)

Tonks_op




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Feb 27 07:31:29 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:31:29 -0000
Subject: Celeb Gossip: Dan buys Another $4Mil NY Flat
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0802261759k755a87dcqac854d1eac30acbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fq33kh+n6l4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "P. Alexis Nguyen" <alexisnguyen at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Steve:
> >  If you would like to take a tour of his new place, it's pretty
> >  nice. 2,450 sq ft in the corner of the building with three
> >  bedrooms and, I think, 3.5 baths. Not as classy as his other
> >  apartment, but still nice.
> >
> >  Still, nice place, but holy crappoly, nearly $5 million for
> >  2450 sq ft. You can buy a large mansion with grounds for that
> >  in Minnesota.
> 
> Oh sure.  You can buy a mansion pretty much anywhere in the Midwest
> for those prices (and don't think I didn't consider things like that
> when I accepted my first job out of college and my parents wanted to
> know why I didn't want to move back home).  However, seeing as the
> tiny studio near me (in Philadelphia) is going for a "mere" $750K and
> this city's cost of living is lower than NYC's, I'd say that a $5M 3
> BR, 3.5 BA flat isn't unreasonable in, oh, any sense of the word
> (except in the sense of the word that conveys the obscenely high cost
> of living in cities like NYC).
> 
> NYC flats (especially those pesky UWS ones): a good investment since
> it doesn't look like there's going to be a mass exodus out of the city
> soon.

Geoff:
Try taking a look at London prices for similar results.......




From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 27 10:59:09 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:59:09 +0800
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq0040+63oo@eGroups.com>
References: <fq0040+63oo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47C5427D.6080201@yahoo.com>

Carol blessed us with this gem On 26/02/2008 11:13:

> Because the theory that seasons BEGIN on the Solstice or Equinox is
> a big modern hoax. If the season is defined by length of day,

[Sorry, the ">"s were a bit scrambled so I'm not sure who the above 
quote belongs to.]

I think we're simply talking about different definitions, here. Of 
course, any amateur astronomer can tell you about solstices, equinoxes, 
polar tilts, and so forth -- and the astronomer that was linked to is 
certainly correct, astronomically speaking -- but all that just brushes 
right over the heads of your average layman, for whom it's all 
pragmatically useless. How many of us notice, in a way that impacts our 
lives, that December 15 had less daylight than December 1? Now, how many 
of us noticed that December 15 was colder?

"Don't forget to take an extra jacket, dear. There's 11 and a half fewer 
minutes of daylight now."

Now, I *am* an amateur astronomer, and this kind of thing fascinates me; 
I've read entire books on the subject. But even at that, I have to admit 
it has little practical value. I plan my wardrobe, after all, with a 
thermometer, not a stopwatch. And most days I have no idea what time the 
sun rises. Who cares? I'm still sleeping.

And the fact is, where I grew up, wintered started in early November, 
and stretched straight on through mid-April. Now I live in a subtropical 
clime, where spring is beginning right about the time my hometown is 
nestled under a deep blanket of snow and some of the coldest 
temperatures of the year.

Now if you're simply arguing for symmetry, as that astronomer was, there 
is certainly merit to the argument. There's just very little *value* in it.

To drag this subject back to its roots, of greater interest to the 
amateur astronomer in me is how astrologers could get such astronomical 
basics as the position of the sun so grossly wrong. If I wanted to read 
my astrological forecast (which I don't, silly thing that it is) I have 
to look under Sagittarius. Yet, on the day I was born (Dec. 2nd), I 
looked up at the sky and saw the sun firmly ensconced in Ophiucus -- one 
full constellation to the right -- where it was to remain for another 
two and a half weeks before finally entering Sagittarius just two days 
before astrologers claim it was scheduled to leave.

Now, if astrologers believe the positions of the stars control our 
destinies, don't you think it'd behoove them to, like, you know, walk 
outside and *look* at them?

Things that make you go hmmm....

CJ, Ophiucan and proud of it.




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 14:07:21 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:07:21 -0500
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <47C5427D.6080201@yahoo.com>
References: <fq0040+63oo@eGroups.com> <47C5427D.6080201@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0802270607v32496c52q7db6989144b37642@mail.gmail.com>

CJ:
> Now, I *am* an amateur astronomer, and this kind of thing fascinates me;
> I've read entire books on the subject. But even at that, I have to admit
> it has little practical value. I plan my wardrobe, after all, with a
> thermometer, not a stopwatch. And most days I have no idea what time the
> sun rises. Who cares? I'm still sleeping.

Ali:
Yuppers!  Personally, I've always thought the terms midsummer and
midwinter originated from a time when the two main season were the
growing season and the, uh, cold season.  Having no science or history
to back up my "claims," I only say that I thought so because the
dates, well, fit.  Logical?  Eh.  Reasonable?  A little. :)


CJ:
> Now, if astrologers believe the positions of the stars control our
> destinies, don't you think it'd behoove them to, like, you know, walk
> outside and *look* at them?

Ali:
Oh I think astrologers believe plenty.  I think they just don't care
about the pesky details - for example, why are there 13 constellations
within the band of stars used but only 12 astrological signs?  Or why
don't they consider that the stars today aren't where they were when
these systems were put in place?  Silly questions, I know, but oh
well.  I have friends who believe, and who am I to say they're wrong,
really?


Immensely enjoying reading OTChatter these days,
Ali



From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 27 15:26:01 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:26:01 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <47C5427D.6080201@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fq3ve9+hic9@eGroups.com>

CJ:
> I think we're simply talking about different definitions, here. Of 
> course, any amateur astronomer can tell you about solstices, 
equinoxes, 
> polar tilts, and so forth -- and the astronomer that was linked to 
is 
> certainly correct, astronomically speaking -- but all that just 
brushes 
> right over the heads of your average layman, for whom it's all 
> pragmatically useless. How many of us notice, in a way that 
impacts our 
> lives, that December 15 had less daylight than December 1? Now, 
how many 
> of us noticed that December 15 was colder?

Magpie:
Actually, I notice the daylight issue far more than the coldness. I 
notice if a day is particularly cold or warm, but that can vary. I 
mark the seasons very much by how light it is when I am leaving 
work, or how the sun looks coming through my office window at 
different times of the year. So I actually do mark the year by the 
solstices and equinoxes--it's one of the things that makes me feel 
aware and connected to the natural seasons.

-m





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 27 15:30:54 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:30:54 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq3ve9+hic9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq3vne+2f1f@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
> Actually, I notice the daylight issue far more than the coldness. I 
> notice if a day is particularly cold or warm, but that can vary. I 
> mark the seasons very much by how light it is when I am leaving 
> work, or how the sun looks coming through my office window at 
> different times of the year. 

p.s. Oh, and also the time the sunrises. I notice the days when I'm 
asleep when the sun rises and when I'm not, depending on the time of 
year.

-m




From YasminOaks at aol.com  Wed Feb 27 22:21:57 2008
From: YasminOaks at aol.com (YasminOaks at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:21:57 EST
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Winter Solstsice)
Message-ID: <c8e.1ffb773c.34f73c85@aol.com>

Hi. Ok this is a bit off the topic, but reading about astrologers 
going out to look at the stars reminded me of helping my daughter 
study for her science test. It is about stars and constellations 
and such. I couldn't stop smiling when I read about Draco, Regulus, 
and Sirius. I had to laugh out loud when I read what my daughter 
had written all over the pages. "I love Draco". Don't worry, she 
owns the book. I did enjoy seeing those wonderful and familiar 
names in her school book.  It really did make me smile.
 
Hugs,
Cathy who must be a child at heart still and is as bad as her 
daughter in the studying department



From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 00:46:58 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:46:58 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fq1pu0+egjr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq50a2+10ag8@eGroups.com>

Sabrina wrote:
>
> Hi Carol (and everyone else)!
> 
> My name is Sabrina and I think I can shed some light on the 
> subject.  I'm the Chief Technology Officer for Narrate Conferences, 
> Inc., a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, and I've been heavily 
> involved in their last two Harry Potter conferences. <snip>
> 
> Narrate Conferences, Inc. and HPEF are both organizations that 
> present conferences.  I'm sure Bekki can speak more completely to 
> HPEF's mission and goals, so I'll leave that to her, but Narrate was 
> formed to create amazing conferences for teen and adult scholars, 
> educators, librarians, artists, writers and fans on a variety of 
> topics, including Harry Potter. We like to create weekend events 
> that draw a variety of people in to celebrate not only the topic ? 
> in this case, Harry Potter ? but the community around the topic.  
> Almost all of our team has been in the fandom for years and years ? 
> I came in during 2001! ? and it's given so much to us that we want 
> to give back to it.
> 
> Our current event is Terminus, which is a Harry Potter conference 
> that will take place August 7-11, 2008, in downtown Chicago, 
> Illinois, at the absolutely fantastic, historic Hilton Chicago 
> Hotel.  The cost for five days of conference is currently $160, 
> which includes two full meals, admission to almost all programming 
> and events, and an attendee-only t-shirt. <snip>

> These conferences tend to be a wonderful opportunity to interact 
> with other fans of Harry Potter in person, to listen to theories, to 
> debate analyses, to play a bit of Quidditch and perhaps take in some 
> wizard rock.  Most importantly, though, is the chance to be with 
> other fans.  There's truly nothing like a thousand Harry Potter fans 
> in one place for one weekend. <snip>

Carol responds:
Thanks very much, Sabrina. If I were actually planning to attend a
conference, that's exactly the sort of information I'd be looking for.
Now if Bekki will just answer the same questions for Portus and tell
me where to find that "Snape's Eyes" paper, I'll be happy. :-)

Carol, sorry to snip any of Sabrina's post, which can be found
upthread by anyone interested





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 01:05:15 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:05:15 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <47C5427D.6080201@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fq51cb+bbk8@eGroups.com>

> Carol blessed us with this gem On 26/02/2008 11:13:
> 
> > Because the theory that seasons BEGIN on the Solstice or Equinox
is a big modern hoax. If the season is defined by length of day,
> 
> [Sorry, the ">"s were a bit scrambled so I'm not sure who the above
quote belongs to.]

Carol responds:
Actually, the "gem" isn't mine; it's Catlady's response to me. I'm the
one who raised the question of why people refer to Christmas and New
Year's as being in midwinter in the first place. I also said that "a
big modern hoax" is a bit strong and defended the modern definitions
(which aren't all that modern, actually, as I'm pretty sure they date
to the Middle Ages--though not, evidently, to pagan times).

Carol, hoping that if you read a little further into the thread,
you'll know who said what






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 01:12:39 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:12:39 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq3ve9+hic9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq51q7+mvtu@eGroups.com>

Magpie:
> Actually, I notice the daylight issue far more than the coldness. I 
> notice if a day is particularly cold or warm, but that can vary. I 
> mark the seasons very much by how light it is when I am leaving 
> work, or how the sun looks coming through my office window at 
> different times of the year. So I actually do mark the year by the 
> solstices and equinoxes--it's one of the things that makes me feel 
> aware and connected to the natural seasons.

carol responds:
Though no doubt Daylight Savings time interferes with the
"naturalness" a bit.

BTW, I've noticed that dawn is now corresponding pretty closely with
the time I naturally get up in the morning. (I work at home, so I
don't have to drive to work on someone else's schedule.) which makes
it, erm, midwinter--right between the winter solstice and the vernal
Equinox.

Carol, arguing that it's midwinter now even though the high in Tucson
was 80 degrees, I have my bedroom window open to get a breeze, and the
ceiling fan is running full blast





From marion11111 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 01:16:48 2008
From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:16:48 -0000
Subject: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fq0192+56sv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq5220+e07a@eGroups.com>


> Warm September brings the sheaves, 
> Bright October, fruit is here
> Cold November swirling leaves, 
> Then December, Christmas* cheer.
> 
> Not universal, maybe (for Northern latitudes, I mean), but close
> enough (though I don't recall tulips in June; I think of them as
> blooming in May). But it fits the traditional seasonal pattern as most
> people (other than those in California, Florida, or Southern Arizona
> experience them).
> 
> Carol, who thought that "sheaves" was "sheep" when she learned the
> song around age five or six
> 

Ha!  For years I thought my grandmother was singing about "bringing in the CHEESE, 
bringing in the cheese, we shall come rejoicing bringing in the cheese."

marion








From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 01:40:23 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:40:23 +0800
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq3ve9+hic9@eGroups.com>
References: <fq3ve9+hic9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47C61107.6070601@yahoo.com>

sistermagpie blessed us with this gem On 27/02/2008 23:26:

CJ:
> How many of us notice, in a way that impacts our
> lives, that December 15 had less daylight than 
 > December 1?

Magpie:
> Actually, I notice the daylight issue far more 
 > than the coldness ....

Hello! Thanks for the comments.

Sure, we all notice the extra daylight -- or lack thereof (I was being a 
bit self-deprecatory with my "I'm still sleeping" remark). I still 
remember the summer I studied at the University of North Dakota, which 
is further west than, but still in the same timezone as, my hometown. I 
was constantly struck by the fact that it was still light at 8:30 at night.

But I was really getting at the *practical* effect it has on us. Aside 
from a couple of times a year, when our clocks need to be adjusted (for 
those living in such places), it really makes very little pragmatic 
difference in most peoples' lives. How often do we site around making 
small talk about daylight savings time? Or listen to our grandfathers 
regale us with stories of how early the sun used to rise when they were 
boys? Some of my own precious childhood memories include snowfalls in 
October (and once in May!), sledding parties on my birthday, and, yes, 
white Christmases. But nothing about sunrises or sunsets (at least, 
wherein the time was significant).

There was a period in my life where sunrise was of great daily 
significance. As a Cistercian monk living in a monastery, I used to rise 
daily at three for vigils, followed by two- to two-and-a-half hours of 
private meditation, ending with sunrise; hence, my meditation periods 
were longer in winter. But monastic life is hardly part of most folks' 
experience.

Having said all that, however, I'd say that at least in those parts of 
the world (viz., northern Europe) that are the source of so many of our 
cultural traditions about winter and Christmas, culture is much more in 
step with the idea of December 22nd being mid-winter than the first day 
of the season. Where I grew up, while January and February were the 
coldest months, December wasn't far behind, and we usually thought of 
winter as beginning in mid-November. So in that sense, I'd agree with 
the astronomer's rant. Seeing "first day of winter" and "first day of 
summer" on the calendar was never more than a source of occasional 
bemusement for me, however; something to smile at, but nothing to make a 
fuss about.

Magpie:
 > -it' s one of the things that
 > makes me feel aware and connected to the natural seasons.

Just out of curiosity, are you saying it makes you feel more connected 
to the natural seasons than the weather?

CJ





From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 01:48:06 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:48:06 +0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fq5220+e07a@eGroups.com>
References: <fq5220+e07a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <47C612D6.5020402@yahoo.com>

marion11111 blessed us with this gem On 28/02/2008 09:16:

> Ha! For years I thought my grandmother was singing 
 > about "bringing in the CHEESE,..."

I was never sure what a "harold" was, or the precise means by which one 
went about "harking" them, but I knew it was something you were supposed 
to do whenever angels sang. It wasn't until I was much older that I 
realized there was no comma in the sentence.

CJ




From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 28 02:20:24 2008
From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:20:24 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fq2vvk+lli7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq55p8+vtbd@eGroups.com>

> Tonks_op:
> 
> I have been to 4 conferences. I loved them all. Be sure to make or 
have someone make a Wizard/Witch outfit for you. Some of the college 
age folks dress as Hogwarts students, us older ones as other 
characters, or one of the Professors. The conferences can be rather 
expensive with the transportation, but worth every penny. The 
presentation are great, and there is so much going on, something for 
everyone.

Tiffany:

I've never been to a Portus or Terminus convention, but have been to 3 
HP conventions; all here in the Twin Cities area.  I dressed up as a 
character every single time & have always worn a costume to each one I 
went to.  I don't recall the prices, but they can be a bit on the 
expensive side.  I found some wonderful stuff there also, like rare HP 
toys & posters, as well as several copies of the canonical books 
themselves.  Most books were fan fiction, but saw a lot of HP books in 
foreign languages, some in Braille or Audio CD also.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 28 02:39:55 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:39:55 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <47C61107.6070601@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fq56tr+bakk@eGroups.com>

> Magpie:
>  > -it' s one of the things that
>  > makes me feel aware and connected to the natural seasons.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, are you saying it makes you feel more 
connected 
> to the natural seasons than the weather?

Magpie:
I'm tempted to say that lately it has because summer now lasts until 
practically November.:-( 

But mostly they go together--it's true you're more likely to talk 
about how much snow one used to get than what time the sun used to 
rise because it's regular. You don't get freak early sunrises but you 
do get freak snowstorms that you'll remember for a long time. But, 
like, when I think of summer the weather is connected to how the 
light goes--which includes daylight savings for me (I mean, the clock 
moving is just a number; it's more just when you wake up, when you do 
what and when you go to sleep). 

So basically it's that the two things go together. I can't imagine 
crisp Fall days with late sunsets, for instance. But when I think of 
the things I notice most about different seasons it's probably a toss 
between what twilight looks like/when it comes and the smell of the 
air. 

-m




From lilollu at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 06:11:25 2008
From: lilollu at yahoo.com (lilollu)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:11:25 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fpqqfh+3seb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq5jad+ant6@eGroups.com>

Thanks for your suggestions guys!  I'm happy to see that this group is 
very active. Mostly I was thinking that I don't know anyone who might 
be there and my friends who like HP would probably not dish out the 
cash and I would feel bad asking them so I was thinking along the lines 
of what would make more sense when one is alone and pretty clueless. I 
have recently come to discover more about wizard rock and I'm a fan of 
Leaky and Mugglenet's podcasts. Out of curiosity, are there a lot of 
people here going to one or both of these? Maybe some other con? 
-Lilo  




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Feb 28 06:44:48 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:44:48 -0500
Subject: A Thought (was Re: Conventions??)
In-Reply-To: <fq5jad+ant6@eGroups.com>
References: <fpqqfh+3seb@eGroups.com> <fq5jad+ant6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c879d5$69c39740$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

Here's a thought to throw around and put into the hands of an artistic
someone.

When I was moderating the Battlestar Galactica Theme list and there was a
convention scheduled (which was the 20-Yahren Reunion in Universal City) one
of our members made these cool badges which he gave to all of us on the list
who were planning to attend.  So we all wore these special badges and it was
great because we could then be identified by other list members and get to
meet those we had come to know and love through our computers.

We had a real blast!  I still have that badge, too. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From bekkio at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 14:08:18 2008
From: bekkio at gmail.com (Bekkio)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:08:18 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fq1ltp+omvb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq6f8i+iu0g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

*snip*

> Forgive me for responding since I'm not the original questioner and
> have no plans to attend any conference, but your post, while
> informative, leaves several questions unanswered.
> 
> What are HBEF and Narrate? When and where are the two conferences
> (Portus and Terminus) and what's the difference in cost?



HP Education Fanon, Inc. (HPEF) is a U.S. based educational non-profit 501(c)(3) 
organization founded in 2002 that is committed to producing academic symposia on the 
Harry Potter books and cultural phenomenon. We strive to distinguish our conferences by 
the premiere quality of the programming we offer, particularly the caliber of our featured 
speakers and guests. Our volunteer planners aim to bring scholars and fans professional-
quality, creative, premium experiences for affordable prices. HPEF also promotes the 
benefits of reading for both children and adults by offering Library Science and Education 
tracks in our conference programs. We also support our host communities by donating a 
portion of our auction proceeds to a local charity.  

Portus is the fifth HPEF event, and it will take place July 10-13 at the luxurious Hilton 
Anatole in Dallas, Texas.  Registration is currently $220, which includes four days of both 
formal and informal programming, participation in Quidditch, and daily Wizard Rock 
performances.  Hotel rooms at the Anatole are $155/night plus taxes for up to four 
attendees.  We're also proud to present a Portus exclusive: the Portus Podcast Palooza, 
which includes live appearances by MuggleCast, SnapeCast, AlleyCast, and a whole lot 
more! 
  
> Also, the paper on "Snape's Eyes" sounds interesting. Is it posted on
> the Internet anywhere? If so, Id appreciate a link.

You can find Snape's Eyes on the Harry Potter Lexicon here: http://www.hp-
lexicon.org/essays/essay-snapes-eyes.html


Best Regards,
Bekki Olivieri






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 19:20:24 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:20:24 -0000
Subject: "The Noughties"?
Message-ID: <fq71ho+385g@eGroups.com>

I see that Julie Walters has referred in a recent interview to the
years 2000-2009 as "the Noughties," an expression I've never
encountered before.

Geoff, or any other Brit on the list, how would you pronounce
"noughties" (or "noughty," if you prefor the singular form, which I
can't imagine being used)? Is "noughty" a homonym of "naughty" (which,
to me, sounds exactly like "knotty") or is it more like "nowty"?

Carol, for whom British spelling, pronunciation, and vocabulary are
endlessly fascinating





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 19:24:12 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:24:12 -0000
Subject: Winter Solstsice
In-Reply-To: <fq5220+e07a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq71os+ol13@eGroups.com>

> > Carol, who thought that "sheaves" was "sheep" when she learned the
song around age five or six
> > 
Marion" 
> Ha!  For years I thought my grandmother was singing about "bringing
in the CHEESE, bringing in the cheese, we shall come rejoicing
bringing in the cheese."

Carol again:
How funny! Of course, mid-to-late-twentieth-century children (and now,
those born in the twenty-first century) have no clue as to what a
sheaf is.

Carol, imagining trying to explain that concept to a child who's never
seen a field of wheat





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 19:45:37 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:45:37 -0000
Subject: "Harold" angels (Was: Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <47C612D6.5020402@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fq7311+hg7t@eGroups.com>

CJ/Lee wrote:
> I was never sure what a "harold" was, or the precise means by which
one went about "harking" them, but I knew it was something you were
supposed to do whenever angels sang. It wasn't until I was much older
that I realized there was no comma in the sentence.
> 
> CJ
>
Carol responds:
Not Harold, which is a name, but "herald," as in a bringer of news or
ambassador. And "hark," of course, means "listen," so "Hark! The
herald angels sing" means, essentially, "Listen to the messenger
angels singing." Think of a medieval herald in livery delivering
messages between two armies. (It was a crime to kill a herald.)
Richard III founded the College of Arms or Herald's College in 1484
for the regulation of heraldry and granting of coats of arms (though
that has nothing to do with "herald angels," I realize).

Carol, whose sources show an exclamation point after "Hark"




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 20:09:26 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:09:26 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq56tr+bakk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq74dm+7lgr@eGroups.com>

Magpie wrote:
> <snip> I can't imagine crisp Fall days with late sunsets, for
instance. But when I think of the things I notice most about different
seasons it's probably a toss between what twilight looks like/when it
comes and the smell of the air. 

Carol responds:
Whereas, for me (prosaically), winter equals snow, spring equals
flowers (especially bulbs and fruit tree blossoms), summer equals
sunshine (June) and thunderstorms (July and August), and fall equals
brightly colored leaves turning brown and *fall*ing. I guess that
comes from growing up in Flagstaff, which would have a New-Englandlike
climate if it weren't for the relative scarcity of rain (and humidity).

I happen to have a tissue box (I'd say Kleenex box, but it's a
different brand) that shows the four seasons with corresponding
pictures and captions: Einter: "Snow days" (picture of a snowman);
Spring "planting" (picture of a watering can and flowers; Summer "by
the pool" (picture of a pool, a beach ball, and flipflops; Autumn
"raking leaves" (picture of a leaf rake, autumn leaves, and a
pumpkin). Yep, those are the four traditional seasons, defined by
weather and activities, not by the length of the day, which really
doesn't correlate all that well with the weather. (You'd think that
longer days would automatically mean warmer weather and shorter days,
cooler weather, but it doesn't work that way).

Doesn't matter that I now live in Tucson, where summerlike weather can
start in April and last through September and our seasons are Warm
(September and October), Cool (November through March) Warm again
(April), Baking (May and June), and Monsoon (July and August). Well, I
just made up those "seasons," except for Monsoon season. Catlady, I
think, mentioned Fire Season, which, in Arizona, is pretty much May
through September or october, overlapping with Monsoon Season because
of lightning-caused fires.

Carol, betting that most people on the list (not counting Catlady and
me) are still enjoying/suffering through winter weather





From jnferr at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 20:33:08 2008
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:33:08 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "The Noughties"?
In-Reply-To: <fq71ho+385g@eGroups.com>
References: <fq71ho+385g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40802281233x1a2f174ct4dda759ad3ba7e1a@mail.gmail.com>

Carol :

> I see that Julie Walters has referred in a recent interview to the
> years 2000-2009 as "the Noughties," an expression I've never
> encountered before.
>
> Geoff, or any other Brit on the list, how would you pronounce
> "noughties" (or "noughty," if you prefor the singular form, which I
> can't imagine being used)? Is "noughty" a homonym of "naughty" (which,
> to me, sounds exactly like "knotty") or is it more like "nowty"?
>
> Carol, for whom British spelling, pronunciation, and vocabulary are
> endlessly fascinating


montims:

My two pennorth: Noughty IS a homonym of naughty, which is the punning
aspect of it, but it is pronounced norty in both cases (well, fellow Brits -
not quite, but good enough for the purposes of this discussion...)  Just
don't stress the r...    It is, of course, derived from "nought", meaning
nothing, and now I have it - that rhymes with thought.  For example, how
would you pronounce Dreadnought?  In Yorkshire where I lived for a few
years, the word would be pronounced, and spelt, nowt...

Back to an old hairy/harry pronunciation controversy - How do you say Bill
Haley, and Halle Berry?  I heard both these names spoken on tv recently, and
had the aha moment - change the l for an r (like those old bad Chinese
impersonations) and you have the pronunciation of Hairy and Harry.  Dadah!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 20:45:23 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:45:23 -0000
Subject: Conventions??
In-Reply-To: <fq6f8i+iu0g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq76h3+3tap@eGroups.com>

Bekki wrote:
> <snip> You can find Snape's Eyes on the Harry Potter Lexicon here:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-snapes-eyes.html

Carol responds:

Thanks very much for the information and especially for the link (it
didn't work, but I went to the Lexicon and pasted in the last part). I
seem to recall having read that essay before, probably before DH came
out. I wonder whether the writer has considered revising it in light
of events in that book.

Carol, wishing that the encounter with Snape in DH had happened as Dr.
Kern (sp? I've lost the page and can't check) predicted and that Snape
had survived





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 20:57:07 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:57:07 -0000
Subject: "The Noughties"?
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802281233x1a2f174ct4dda759ad3ba7e1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fq7773+gjg6@eGroups.com>

montims wrote:
> 
> My two pennorth: Noughty IS a homonym of naughty, which is the
punning aspect of it, but it is pronounced norty in both cases (well,
fellow Brits - not quite, but good enough for the purposes of this
discussion...)  Just don't stress the r...    It is, of course,
derived from "nought", meaning nothing, and now I have it - that
rhymes with thought.  For example, how would you pronounce
Dreadnought?  In Yorkshire where I lived for a few years, the word
would be pronounced, and spelt, nowt...
> 
Carol:
Well, as an American, I seldom use either "nought" (zero or nothing)
oar "naught" (nothing), but I would pronounce both of them exactly as
I pronounce "not" and "knot." (and, yes, they rhyme with
"thought"--and "hot," for that matter). Simplicity, you know. The
fewer pronunciations, the better. <grin>

montims:
> Back to an old hairy/harry pronunciation controversy - How do you
say Bill Haley, and Halle Berry?  I heard both these names spoken on
tv recently, and had the aha moment - change the l for an r (like
those old bad Chinese impersonations) and you have the pronunciation
of Hairy and Harry.  Dadah!

Carol:
"Haley" has a long "a" (as in "Kate" )and "Halle" a short "a" as in
"cat." Neither of them has quite the same sound as an "a" preceding an
"r" (setting aside words like "car," in which the "a" has more of an 
"ah" sound). For me, "hairy" and Harry" are homonyms and rhyme with
"Berry." ("Merry," "marry," and "Mary" are also all homonyms.)

Carol, who associates "nowt" with the Gaffer in LOTR
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





From jnferr at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 21:37:00 2008
From: jnferr at gmail.com (Janette)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:37:00 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: "The Noughties"?
In-Reply-To: <fq7773+gjg6@eGroups.com>
References: <8ee758b40802281233x1a2f174ct4dda759ad3ba7e1a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <fq7773+gjg6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ee758b40802281337w41fbfa2eu382eb065f56a69fa@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Carol:
> "Haley" has a long "a" (as in "Kate" )and "Halle" a short "a" as in
> "cat." Neither of them has quite the same sound as an "a" preceding an
> "r" (setting aside words like "car," in which the "a" has more of an
> "ah" sound).
>

montims:

and there you have it - for a Brit, hairy has the long vowel of Kate, and
Harry has the cat vowel.  And if you practice really hard, you, too,
(generic you) can sound like a true Brit!

Say flied lice enough times, thinking "fried rice", then say Halle enough
times, thinking "Harry"...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Feb 28 21:37:45 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:37:45 -0000
Subject: "The Noughties"?
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40802281233x1a2f174ct4dda759ad3ba7e1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fq79j9+pndj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Janette <jnferr at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol :
> 
> > I see that Julie Walters has referred in a recent interview to the
> > years 2000-2009 as "the Noughties," an expression I've never
> > encountered before.
> >
> > Geoff, or any other Brit on the list, how would you pronounce
> > "noughties" (or "noughty," if you prefor the singular form, which I
> > can't imagine being used)? Is "noughty" a homonym of "naughty" (which,
> > to me, sounds exactly like "knotty") or is it more like "nowty"?
> >
> > Carol, for whom British spelling, pronunciation, and vocabulary are
> > endlessly fascinating
> 
> 
> montims:
> 
> My two pennorth: Noughty IS a homonym of naughty, which is the punning
> aspect of it, but it is pronounced norty in both cases (well, fellow Brits -
> not quite, but good enough for the purposes of this discussion...)  Just
> don't stress the r...    It is, of course, derived from "nought", meaning
> nothing, and now I have it - that rhymes with thought.  For example, how
> would you pronounce Dreadnought?  In Yorkshire where I lived for a few
> years, the word would be pronounced, and spelt, nowt...
> 
> Back to an old hairy/harry pronunciation controversy - How do you say Bill
> Haley, and Halle Berry?  I heard both these names spoken on tv recently, and
> had the aha moment - change the l for an r (like those old bad Chinese
> impersonations) and you have the pronunciation of Hairy and Harry.  Dadah!

Geoff:
"Nowt" would be pronounced to rhyme with"out" - according to my 
father, who was a Yorkshireman.

I would pronounce "Dreadnought'"as "Dreadnort".

I am reminded of the old Yorkshire verse:

Eat all, drink all, pay nowt,
See all, hear all, say nowt.

And what about the traditional Yorkshire song "On Ilkla' Moor baht 'at" 
- which for the benefit of totally flummoxed non-Brit group members 
translates as "On Ilkley Moor without a hat".

Continuing to rabbit on, readers may be interested to know that there 
is a BBC presenter called James Naughtie, who is a Scot. His surname 
is pronounced Noch-ti, the "ch"  being the guttural form found in 
Scots "loch", Welsh "bach" or German "nacht".

Returning to Harry/Hairy, a British person would normally go for the 
'Harry' version, The standard pronunciation in UK English is that a 
doubled consonant is preceded by a short vowel.

This is why, for example, the past tense of "travel" is "travelled", 
otherwise it would be pronounced 'tray-veld" or something akin to 
that. Sssh - don't tell our American friends, they've been spelling it 
the wrong way for years.
:-)))

If I don't reply to this thread again today, have a good Leap Year Day 
and, guys, if you're not hooked already, watch out for low-flying 
maidens of the non-cricket variety.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 28 21:58:18 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:58:18 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq74dm+7lgr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq7apq+3g3l@eGroups.com>

> Magpie wrote:
> > <snip> I can't imagine crisp Fall days with late sunsets, for
> instance. But when I think of the things I notice most about 
different
> seasons it's probably a toss between what twilight looks like/when 
it
> comes and the smell of the air. 
> 
> Carol responds:
> Whereas, for me (prosaically), winter equals snow, spring equals
> flowers (especially bulbs and fruit tree blossoms), summer equals
> sunshine (June) and thunderstorms (July and August), and fall 
equals
> brightly colored leaves turning brown and *fall*ing. I guess that
> comes from growing up in Flagstaff, which would have a New-
Englandlike
> climate if it weren't for the relative scarcity of rain (and 
humidity).

Magpie:
I've always lived in a New England climate as well. But the length 
of the days isn't just an afterthought for me, it all goes together. 
Fall=the right smell+earlier sunsets+falling leaves+chill. (Lately, 
the light is the only thing behaving properly since summer keeps 
dragging itself off longer and longer.) When you're inside (as I 
usually in) the light is just as obvious as the weather outside.

I grew up with the same standard pictures for winter, spring, summer 
and fall, but when it got dark was always important too. There are 
practical considerations to it as well--people didn't always just 
switch on the light when it got dark, after all. You had to work 
around the sun as much as you did around the weather.

-m (freezing today, but still can tell it's getting nearer to spring 
because it's not dark in here like it would be in December. February 
freezing is different than December freezing. Yule vs. Imbolc--there 
is a difference!)




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 23:03:53 2008
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:03:53 -0000
Subject: Ilkley Moor Murder Case (Was Re: "The Noughties"?)
In-Reply-To: <fq79j9+pndj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq7ekp+6592@eGroups.com>

> > Carol :
<SNIP>
> > "the Noughties," an expression I've never encountered before.

> > montims:
<SNIPPED> 
> > My two pennorth: Noughty IS a homonym of naughty, which is 
> > the punning aspect of it, but it is pronounced norty in both 
> > cases 

> Geoff:
<SNIPPED>
> "Nowt" would be pronounced to rhyme with"out" - according to my 
> father, who was a Yorkshireman.

> And what about the traditional Yorkshire song "On Ilkla' Moor 
> baht 'at" - which for the benefit of totally flummoxed non-Brit 
> group members translates as "On Ilkley Moor without a hat".

Goddlefrood:

We've thus left the Naughty Nineties and presumably entered the 
Nothing Noughties, they've been quite uneventful so far ;-)

I agree with momtims that both naughty and noughty - not that 
noughty is really a word - would be pronounced norty more or 
less. How James Nauchtie pronounces his name I'll leave for 
your imagination.

Wasn't it the Hovis ads that claimed that there was nowt taken 
out of their (bread?) products at one time? Owt is also a synonym 
for nowt in Yorkshire, btw.

The Ilkley moor song is about a famous murder that was unusual 
because the murderer was not wearing a hat. This fact was so 
remarkable for the time (the lack of headwear), that the song 
came about. This has been one of the probably quite useless 
pieces of trivia I've picked up in my life and I now pass it 
on.

Goddlefrood, whose parents are both Yorkshire through and through.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Feb 28 23:44:42 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:44:42 -0000
Subject: Ilkley Moor Murder Case (Was Re: "The Noughties"?)
In-Reply-To: <fq7ekp+6592@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq7h1a+lbsa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:

> This has been one of the probably quite useless pieces of trivia I've picked up
> in my life and I now pass it  on.
 
> Goddlefrood, whose parents are both Yorkshire through and through.

Geoff:
Yes but quite useless pieces of trivia make marvellous 
conversation starters (or stoppers) don't they?

In the past, I have been likened to Autolycus in "The Two 
Gentlemen of Verona" who described himself as "a snapper 
up of unconsidered trifles" - obvously good at finishing off 
unwanted puddings. :-)

I could describe myself as a Tudor - Lancashire mother and 
Yorkshire father.





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 29 00:30:10 2008
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:30:10 -0000
Subject: Silly astrologers (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Winter Solstsice)
In-Reply-To: <fq7apq+3g3l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq7jmi+g5g0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" 
<sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
>
> -m (freezing today, but still can tell it's getting nearer to 
spring 
> because it's not dark in here like it would be in December. 
February 
> freezing is different than December freezing. Yule vs. Imbolc--
there 
> is a difference!)
>

Oh, yay!  Imbolc turned out to be a nice word to google on -- and it 
also was a lovely lead-in to Brigid.  I was having trouble googling 
for her before, because I kept coming up with links to "St." Bridget 
for page after page.

I'm with you on noticing the changes in the light.  It seems just a 
little while ago when I'd be driving home at 6:00 in full dark, and 
today it was nice and bright.

Annemehr,
glad that it didn't rain or snow at all today for once






From finwitch at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 29 12:15:10 2008
From: finwitch at yahoo.com (finwitch)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:15:10 -0000
Subject: Silly ideas?
Message-ID: <fq8t0e+7tnm@eGroups.com>

A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how the 
characters would react if (say) Harry...

a) was blind/deaf/mute
b) had Tourette's
c) had some mental disease for real

As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT 
develop a mental disorder of any kind.

Finwitch




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Feb 29 14:10:45 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:10:45 -0000
Subject: Silly ideas?
In-Reply-To: <fq8t0e+7tnm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq93p5+5d0o@eGroups.com>

 "finwitch" 

> A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how the 
> characters would react if (say) Harry...
> 
> a) was blind/deaf/mute
> b) had Tourette's
> c) had some mental disease for real
> 
> As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT 
> develop a mental disorder of any kind.
> 
> Finwitch

Potioncat:

This seems like a very important issue to you. 

If you afflict Harry with any of these conditions, you have a 
completely different character. His name might be Harry Potter, but he 
would not be "Harry Potter".

I understand what you mean. The first time I started reading SS/PS, I 
coudln't get past the unrealistic nature of the Dursleys treatment and 
Harry being the boy he is. Several years later, I accepted it as a 
Dickens-like approach and moved on.

I've seen fanfics in which Harry is a cutter. And I've seen some where 
he is much needier than canon Harry. Usually it's Severus who steps 
forward and adopts him. (A subset of fanfics based on a line that went 
something like "Snape was more likely to adopt Harry than..."

The only effort at meeting a student's special needs that we see in 
canon is DD's accomodations for Lupin's lycanthropy. You might be able 
to Google Harry Potter and a few keywords to find what you're looking 
for. Google connects to fanfics. Or you might write the fanfic yourself.

Best,
Potioncat




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 29 14:53:40 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:53:40 -0000
Subject: Silly ideas?
In-Reply-To: <fq8t0e+7tnm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq969k+603l@eGroups.com>

Finwitch:
> A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how 
the 
> characters would react if (say) Harry...
> 
> a) was blind/deaf/mute
> b) had Tourette's
> c) had some mental disease for real
> 
> As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT 
> develop a mental disorder of any kind.

Magpie:
There's a community on lj called "Wizard Trauma" that essentially 
has people write stories about HP characters with all sorts of real 
world stuff like this. These are exactly the kinds of stories that 
would belong there, at least, so maybe if you search it you will 
find something like you're looking for?

http://community.livejournal.com/wizard_trauma/

-m




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Feb 29 15:24:48 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:24:48 -0000
Subject: Silly ideas?
In-Reply-To: <fq8t0e+7tnm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9840+3al2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "finwitch" <finwitch at ...> wrote:
>
> A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how the 
> characters would react if (say) Harry...
> 
> a) was blind/deaf/mute
> b) had Tourette's
> c) had some mental disease for real
> 
> As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT 
> develop a mental disorder of any kind.
> 
> Finwitch

Geoff:
What again??
:-))

Perhaps third time lucky......





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Feb 29 18:23:52 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:23:52 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Silly ideas?
In-Reply-To: <fq8t0e+7tnm@eGroups.com>
References: <fq8t0e+7tnm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004301c87b00$3d357870$67a4a8c0@FRODO>

[Finwitch]:
| A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how the 
| characters would react if (say) Harry...
| 
| a) was blind/deaf/mute
| b) had Tourette's
| c) had some mental disease for real

[Lee]:
You'd have to look for some "Alternate Universe" fic for that.  I think it
would change the character too much, though it would be an interesting take.

[Finwitch]:
| As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT 
| develop a mental disorder of any kind.

[Lee]:
Not everyone who lives in a bad environment will end up with a mental
disorder.  However, remember that Harry's temper became more and more
explosive as the books progressed.  IMO, that was not only due to Voldy
inside his head and burgeoning hormones but to the repressiveness and
isolation of the Dursley house.  He had no one he could share with and had
to deal with everything like Ced's death, etc., on his own.

I used to teach inner-city boy scouts years ago.  One of the most stable,
reliable, polite boys came from an environment where his mother's boy-friend
was mostly hopped up on drugs and could be very abusive.  This young man was
really special and grew up to be a lawyer and a youth minister.

Some people are just too strong-willed to succumb. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 29 20:13:25 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:13:25 -0000
Subject: "The Noughties"?
In-Reply-To: <fq79j9+pndj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9p15+smjb@eGroups.com>


> Geoff:
><snip>
> Returning to Harry/Hairy, a British person would normally go for the 
> 'Harry' version, The standard pronunciation in UK English is that a 
> doubled consonant is preceded by a short vowel.

Carol:
Interesting! That rule applies generally in American English, too,
except that (in my dialect, at least), it doesn't apply to "r," which
alters the sound if the vowel (which brings us back to Sirius/serious,
sshich doesn't quite fit your rule if the in "Sirius" "i" is short).
At any rate, the "a" in "rabbit" is short (followed by a double
consonang) and the "a" in "rabies" is long, followed by a single
consonant, so, yes, the rule generally applies. I'm sure we can think
of many other examples, but they don't necessarily apply to the letter.  

Geoff: 
> This is why, for example, the past tense of "travel" is "travelled",
otherwise it would be pronounced 'tray-veld" or something akin to 
that. Sssh - don't tell our American friends, they've been spelling it
the wrong way for years.

Carol:
Well, no. The "e" in "travel" isn't short. It's an unaccented vowel (a
schwa), which isn't affected by consonant doubling. The short vowel is
the "a," which, according to our rule, ought to be
doubled--"travvel"--to indicate that it's short, or the word should be
pronounced "trayvel." The double "l" in "travelling" doesn't follow
any rule that I'm aware of. (We drop a silent "e" before adding a
suffix, such as -"ing" or "-ed," but I don't recall a "double the
final consonant" rule before adding those suffixes except in
one-syllable words such as "run," in which the "short vowel before a
double consonant rule" would apply. (It doesn't apply to one-syllable
verbs or we'd have "runn" and "jogg" and "digg." It doesn't seem to
apply to "x," either, or we'd have "hexxed" and "hexxing.")

Geoff: 
> If I don't reply to this thread again today, have a good Leap Year
Day and, guys, if you're not hooked already, watch out for low-flying
maidens of the non-cricket variety.

Carol:
"Low-flying maidens"?

Carol, picturing thirteen-year-old witches on broomsticks (which
ought, actually, to be brooms, the broomstick being just the handle
without the bristles or twigs)





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 29 20:24:52 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:24:52 -0000
Subject: Ilkley Moor Murder Case (Was Re: "The Noughties"?)
In-Reply-To: <fq7h1a+lbsa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9pmk+mnaf@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
<snip> 
> I could describe myself as a Tudor - Lancashire mother and Yorkshire
father.
>
Carol:
I guess you're thinking of Henry VIII, whose father, Henry VII, was
half-English, one-quarter Welsh, and one quarter French, with
Lancastrian connections through his French grandmother, and whose
mother, Elizabeth of York, was, of course, pure Yorkist (and
all-English), the daughter of Edward IV. 

Carol, for whom York and Yorkshire are associated with Edward's
brother, Richard III, and his Northern supporters




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 29 20:42:33 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:42:33 -0000
Subject: Silly ideas?
In-Reply-To: <fq9840+3al2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9qnp+fgon@eGroups.com>

"finwitch" wrote:
> >
> > A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how
the  characters would react if (say) Harry...
> > 
> > a) was blind/deaf/mute
> > b) had Tourette's
> > c) had some mental disease for real
> > 
> > As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT
develop a mental disorder of any kind.
> > 
> > Finwitch
> 
> Geoff:
> What again??
> :-))
> 
> Perhaps third time lucky......
>
Carol responds:
While I'm with Geoff in not understanding your fascinatiion with this
noncanonical approach to Harry, at least I now understand that you
think Harry's (relative) normalcy was unnatural under the
circumstances. Possibly, you think that he should have become a
psychopath like Tom Riddle (who actually received better treatment, in
some ways, but had other problems, such as bad genes and no mother
love, countering the decent care at the orphanage). Or you think that,
like Snape, he should have turned out bitter, sarcastic, and verbally
abusive.

However, I'd like to point out that Harry's upbringing resembles that
of many children in earlier eras, who would not necessarily have a
spoiled, bullying stepbrother or -sister (a Dudley counterpart), but
would have had sleeping conditions similar to Harry's and have been
subjected not only to verbal but to physical abuse (by today's
standards). Even when I was a child, parents routinely spanked their
children or sent them to bed without supper, and some used hairbrushes
   or belts in place of hands for spanking. (In my mother's day, the
parents used switches from a pepper tree, which must have really
stung.) And yet, despite corporal punishment and what today would be
considered abuse and neglect, most kids turned out just fine.

The Dursleys apply a double standard, an old-fashioned spare-the-rod,
spoil-the-child approach for Harry, and an indulgent "loving" approach
to Dudley (giving in to his tantrums and spoiling him from the time he
was a toddler, mistaking fear of saying no to their child and hurting
his ickle feelings for love). It's much more of a miracle, I'd say,
that *Dudley* seems to have overcome his upbringing. Harry's (no
credit to the Dursleys, who were trying to stamp out his magic) seems
to have strengthened him. He can endure hardship and deprivation (and
spiders) much better than Ron, who was brought up in a loving home
(though his mother yells a lot) in what he considers poverty (it's
more like penury) but never had to go hungry till DH.

Carol, who probably hasn't helped at all but just wanted to have her say




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Feb 29 21:38:53 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:38:53 -0000
Subject: "The Noughties"?
In-Reply-To: <fq9p15+smjb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9u1d+4jd2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Geoff: 
> > This is why, for example, the past tense of "travel" is "travelled",
> otherwise it would be pronounced 'tray-veld" or something akin to 
> that. Sssh - don't tell our American friends, they've been spelling it
> the wrong way for years.
> 
> Carol:
> Well, no. The "e" in "travel" isn't short. It's an unaccented vowel (a
> schwa), which isn't affected by consonant doubling. 

Geoff (today):
Sorry. I made a pig's ear of that one; it was completely the wrong 
example, I should have quoted examples such as "mat/matted",  
"pat/patted", "clip/clipping" and so on.

> Geoff: 
> > If I don't reply to this thread again today, have a good Leap Year
> Day and, guys, if you're not hooked already, watch out for low-flying
> maidens of the non-cricket variety.
> 
> Carol:
> "Low-flying maidens"?

Geoff:
Forget the "low flying". Today's the day when maidens can pop the
question to their possible beaux being the day it is. Mark you, they 
might be low-flying because they're trying a Rugby tackle on their 
prey to stop them getting away. We have had at least two live 
on-screen proposals on TV over here today.....
:-)






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Feb 29 21:43:14 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:43:14 -0000
Subject: Ilkley Moor Murder Case (Was Re: "The Noughties"?)
In-Reply-To: <fq9pmk+mnaf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9u9i+6o4b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> <snip> 
> > I could describe myself as a Tudor - Lancashire mother and Yorkshire
> father.
> >
> Carol:
> I guess you're thinking of Henry VIII, whose father, Henry VII, was
> half-English, one-quarter Welsh, and one quarter French, with
> Lancastrian connections through his French grandmother, and whose
> mother, Elizabeth of York, was, of course, pure Yorkist (and
> all-English), the daughter of Edward IV. 
> 
> Carol, for whom York and Yorkshire are associated with Edward's
> brother, Richard III, and his Northern supporters

Geoff:
Well... no... rather that the House of Tudor was a result of the  
Houses of York and Lancaster being linked through Elizabeth of 
York marriage connection. Though I personally support the
wearing of a red rose, having been brought up until the age of 9 
on the west side of the Pennines.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Feb 29 21:57:50 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:57:50 -0000
Subject: Silly ideas?
In-Reply-To: <fq9qnp+fgon@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fq9v4u+b5nb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> "finwitch" wrote:
> > >
> > > A little speculation (if you know a fanfic, please tell) on how
> the  characters would react if (say) Harry...
> > > 
> > > a) was blind/deaf/mute
> > > b) had Tourette's
> > > c) had some mental disease for real
> > > 
> > > As it is, I find it odd Harry made it trough Dursleys and did NOT
> develop a mental disorder of any kind.
> > > 
> > > Finwitch
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > What again??
> > :-))
> > 
> > Perhaps third time lucky......
> >
> Carol responds:
> While I'm with Geoff in not understanding your fascinatiion with this
> noncanonical approach to Harry, at least I now understand that you
> think Harry's (relative) normalcy was unnatural under the
> circumstances. Possibly, you think that he should have become a
> psychopath like Tom Riddle (who actually received better treatment, in
> some ways, but had other problems, such as bad genes and no mother
> love, countering the decent care at the orphanage). Or you think that,
> like Snape, he should have turned out bitter, sarcastic, and verbally
> abusive.

Geoff:
Thank you, Carol, because I am trying to make points along that 
sort of line. I agree that, under some circumstances, a  child might 
develop some sort of psychiatric problem (for want of a better 
phrase) but to introduce physical problems which might have 
been there from birth would, as you say, produce a different 
"Harry".

Children can be very resilient under difficult circumstances and
emerge the stronger for it at the end. We know a guy - who is 
now in his mid-40s who lost both parents by the age of 11. We
looked after him for a while until his relatives stopped arguing 
(in front of him) as to who was going to draw the short straw 
and take him in {shades of Little Whinging!!!). He was then 
shifted into residemtial care because the aujnt and uncle who 
did take him had only had a daughter who was then grown-up 
and had no idea how to deal with a male teen. He has remained 
amazingly stable and balanced despite all that in his early teens.


Carol:
> However, I'd like to point out that Harry's upbringing resembles that
> of many children in earlier eras, who would not necessarily have a
> spoiled, bullying stepbrother or -sister (a Dudley counterpart), but
> would have had sleeping conditions similar to Harry's and have been
> subjected not only to verbal but to physical abuse (by today's
> standards). Even when I was a child, parents routinely spanked their
> children or sent them to bed without supper, and some used hairbrushes
>    or belts in place of hands for spanking. (In my mother's day, the
> parents used switches from a pepper tree, which must have really
> stung.) And yet, despite corporal punishment and what today would be
> considered abuse and neglect, most kids turned out just fine.

Geoff:
I consider my parents to have been good and loving. My father would 
threaten to use his belt but I don't think he ever did; reaching for it 
was enough to get me as much into line as he wanted.

But this was in a time when we were expected to behave; we didn't 
come of age until we were 21 and some parents could be quite 
restricitve on their offspring even when they were 19 or 20; a financial 
argument often prevailed there as well. The risk of losing spending 
money probably carried more weight than a thump.
:-)