coercion

[susanmcgee48176]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Susan:
> > Oh, goodness, Carol..do you really think that you can equate not
> being able to buy clothes to fit you with being thrown out of your
> family, fired from your job, beat up, murdered, and called names...
> (which happens to lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans gendered people)
> > 
> > I guess you are confusing being the Majority with being 
Dominant...
> > 
> > In the United States, I THOUGHT we had the moral ideal that the 
> > minority rights would be protected..am I wrong?
> > 
> > In terms of toleration of my "lifestyle"...I assume you mean my 
> orientation, which is that I'm a lesbian....Lifestyle is the idea 
> that I'm choosing a wild, romantic sex filled life...well, that 
would
>  be nice..but like most parents...I've chosen a humdrum, mostly 
> dealing with kids, not going out and partying life...that's what 
I've
> CHOSEN! I didn't CHOOSE to fall in love with my amazing 
partner...who
> happens to be a woman..that just happened...just as I imagine you 
> fell in love with your spouse...choice involved..
> > 
> > In terms of tolerance, there are many countries that are more 
> tolerant of lesbian orientation...
> > 
> > Full marriage for same gender couples is presently available to
> same-sex couples in seven jurisdictions. The Netherlands was the 
first
> country to allow same-sex marriage in 2001. Same-sex marriages are
> also recognized in Belgium, Canada, South Africa, Spain, and the 
U.S. 
> > state of Massachusetts.
> > 
> > And in many countries, especialy the Scandanvian ones..there is 
> tremendous tolerance of non-christian religion...and in fact, many 
of
> the cathedrals in Europe have dwindling numbers of worshippers 
> there...hence, much more tolerance of non-christians than here in 
the U.S.
> 
> >
>> But you seem to be ignoring my main point, which is that many
> countries treat Christians or Jews (or women) much worse than 
Wiccans
> are treated in the U.S, (being wished a Merry Christmas or denied a
> pentacle on their gravestones). No one I know is going to stone you 
to
> death or slash your face (as happens to women in certain Arab
> countries for unapproved sexual relationships on the one hand and
> wearing makeup on the other). Nor will you be forced to wear a 
burkha
> (I do need to look up the spelling of that word). I, for one, am 
happy
> to live in the U.S. (despite being annoyed by "happy holidays" and
> other linguistic trends). I greatly prefer it to, say, Afghanistan 
or
> Rwanda. Surely, you're not in danger of being beat up or murdered
> where you live and no one is denying you the right to live with your
> partner or practice Wicca in California, one of the most liberal
> states in the union. BTW, add New Hampshire to the list of states in
> which same-sex unions are legal as of yesterday.

Carol, I think violence in any context is wrong, just as wrong when 
it is being practiced against Christians. There is more political and 
social freedom and toleration here than in the two countries you 
mentioned but there is LESS than in some other countries in the world.

Lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgendered people ARE assaulted and 
murdered in CALIFORNIA. It doesn't happen as OFTEN It's one of the 
reasons we live here, instead of Florida. I agree things are getting 
better (although some would not agree with that) and I do count my 
own personal blessings.

We live with the risk of assault, murder. We are discriminated 
against socially - I could give specifics, but I'm tired and it's 
depressing. We ARE in danger of it -- daily. That's what oppression 
is about.

Although others on this list might be discriminated against for other 
reasons, it's incredibly rare for someone to be discriminated against 
for being heterosexual (note I said incredibly rare)

Heterosexuals, on the other hand, have more options of where to 
live...when they are choosing where to move, they don't have to 
consider the climate of toleration of heterosexuals.

In some states in the US, it's illegal for lesbians and gays to adopt 
children or to foster children (although that is not going to last 
because the foster care system is desperate for decent parents for 
the kids).

And frankly, I don't buy "that's the way it is" (this is not directed 
at you, Carol, but more generally)...these things are wrong and must 
be changed. They can be changed. We have seen tremendous social 
change and again, other countries do better than we do, in the U.S.

And, no, I don't want to move there (again not directed at you, 
Carol)..I was born here, I'm a citizen, and I would prefer to stay 
and work for safety and justice.

Susan