Catholic newspaper publishes debate about HP - what do people think?

[Geoff Bannister]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > Sorry, but I'm going to disagree with you.
> > 
> > As a Christian, I have argued on many occasions that Harry is a 
> Everyman. He is like a Christian on his or her journey through life. 
> > I believe as an evangelical that no mortal person can be Christ or 
> a Christ figure. Jesus is God in human form. He alone is immortal 
> and can forgive sin. We, as believers, can be Christ-like as we try 
> to live according to what Jesus taught. We will be transformed only 
> when we leave his life.
> 
> 
> Tonks:
> That is part of what I am saying. Harry is Everyman on his journey, 
> yes. And the journey for each Christian is to "become Christ". That 
> is not the same as the Gnostic ideas. Christian Monasticism has 
> always had as the goal for the individual to become so united to God 
> as to become like Christ. Some call that “becoming Christ�. 
> 
> If you read very careful in the last part of DH, you will see that 
> happening to Harry. Harry makes the choice to die. (The Christian 
> monk is told to die to self, the ego.)If you read on in DH you see 
> Hagrid carrying Harry as if the scene were a Pieta. And later Hagrid 
> (the Keeper of the Keys) is the one who says "where is Harry?" (Like 
> the people at the tomb) and later everyone screams "He's alive!" 
> This is a death and resurrection scene. And throughout the books we 
> see the step by step way in which Harry is transformed 
> (transfigured) into Christ. Harry is not THE Christ. (Jesus is THE 
> Christ, and only Jesus.) Harry is what every Christian is to become. 
> The classic progression in the spiritual life is to go through 
> different stages until ones comes to what is called the mystical 
> marriage. (No, this is not Gnosticism.) At this point the person is 
> one with God and their behavior looks a lot like that of Jesus. The 
> Saints of the church were the ones who arrived at this point in this 
> life. The progress in the spiritual life is not completed in this 
> life, even for them. This is what is meant by becoming Christ. Call 
> it being like Christ if you wish, means the same to most of us. 

Geoff:
I still feel that I have to disagree with you. I think that it stems from 
two sources, the first perhaps being the form of words in which we 
couch our own personal perspective of faith and the other being that 
I get the impression that you are possibly approaching the Christian 
faith from a Catholic point of view whereas I am coming from an 
evangelical, Non-conformist standpoint.

Some time ago, on one of the groups, either here or on Main, I used 
the picture of faith being like a car. Let's say that a car, basically, has 
to have an engine, four wheels and a steering wheels. Now, that will 
satisfy some people. Others feel that they need some extras – power 
steering, air-conditioning, automatic gearbox and so on. However, 
even with these additions, the basic car is still as defined above.

As an evangelical Christian, and basing it on my own personal 
experience of becoming a Christian while in my last term at teacher 
training college at the age of twenty one, I believe that the heart of 
being a believer rests on accepting that Jesus was God in human form, 
that he died for our sins and rose again. If we place our belief in him, 
then we receive salvation and the Holy Spirit lives in us to guide us 
through our lives.  This is where I believe the form of words comes 
into play. I do not believe that we can "become" Christ. He is immortal; 
he is God and he can save anyone who asks for redemption. We can 
never be perfect here on earth. What we can do is strive to reach the 
ideals of Christian living and, by being in contact with the Spirit of 
God, live in love with one another and with creation. This is to 
"become like" Christ.

On the second source of disagreement, because I come from the 
background I have mentioned, I cannot accept the concept of Marian 
worship and the idea of the Pieta. In terms of DH, I do not believe 
that Harry died and was brought back; Dumbledore twice makes it 
clear that Harry has not died. He is not transformed into Christ. In 
his letter to the Roman church (chapter 2, verse 2), Paul writes "Do 
not conform any longer to the pattern of this world but be transformed 
by the renewing of your mind." Gnosticism was, as you know, a heresy 
which claimed that, to be a believer, you had to have special knowledge 
denied to the ordinary person. Although you say that the arrival at the 
mystical marriage is not Gnosticism, it sounds very much like some of 
the ideas involving the alchemical progression which dominated our 
discussions on spirituality in the Potterverse two or three years back. 
Again, speaking personally, I do not believe that we can take the events 
in the Great Hall at Hogwarts as being analogous to the events in the 
garden or in the upper room at the first Easter.

Tonks, let me stress at this point that what I am saying is not meant in 
any way to be attacking your belief but I believe that the first requirement 
in Christian faith, using my metaphor is to get hold of the basic car first; 
you can always change to a model with power steering etc. later if you 
want to. If you make belief appear too complicated or esoteric, then the 
seeker will be confused or deterred from looking further. If he or she can 
latch on to what Jesus said to Nicodemus - "God so loved the world that 
he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish 
but have eternal life" – then if they want to enlarge what they see as 
necessary to belief, that is their choice.