From leekaiwen at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 02:00:27 2008 From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Lee Kaiwen) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:00:27 +0800 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48698FBB.7090301@yahoo.com> Carol: I want to add that Goddlefrood *may* be confusing "and" with "or." CJ: My own intuitions are in agreement with Geoff's -- of the three, "Neither he nor I are" is the only one that doesn't raise the metaphorical hackles of my native intuition, and would be my preference in cases where a rewrite were infeasible. If I might be so bold as to impose my own intuitions on the general populace, I suspect "are" would be the preference of a majority -- or at least a plurality -- of English speakers. As you have suggested, the reason is almost certainly cognitive interference from the "He and I" pattern. Since expressions such as "Neither he nor I" are less common in English, we tend to "fill in the blanks" based on familiar or similar experiences. But it doesn't really matter *why* "are" is the preferred choice. One might argue that most English speakers are wrong because the rule is right (or, as Geoff and I are wont, argue that the rule is wrong because English speakers are right). But in these sorts of tugs-of-war between the grammatical authorities and the linguistic proletariat, it is always the authorities who lose. The disappearance of case morphology itself is but one example: shifting English stress patterns had robbed case markers of their stress and, hence, their aural distinctiveness. No doubt the grammatical authorities of the day -- had they existed -- would have railed against every case of case abuse, but the "unwashed masses" (per Potioncat) couldn't be induced to much care about inflectional endings, with the result that they passed from widespread misuse into widespread disuse, and eventually fell out of the language. A development which Samuel Johnson, had he been alive at the time, would no doubt have rued as a sign of approaching linguistic Armageddon. Other battles grammatical authorities have lost -- or have failed to win -- have been the abuse of the objective who (which, a generation ago, my English teachers were still trying to drill out of my head with their vituperations against expressions such as "Who'd he give that to?", as much for its dangling preposition as for its misuse of "who"); the split infinitive; alternative spellings such as "alright" (which even the OED, the vaunted successor to Johnson's tome as the guardian of English, now accepts with only a note that "some people" don't think it should be used formally); and the aforementioned dangling preposition ("Nonsense," as Churchill famously remarked, "up with which I will not put"). In the battle between the charismatic and the institutional, I'll bet on the charismatic every time. And in the quest for "standard" English, the people define, the authorities describe. If the people want to say, "None of them are going", then that's standard English, S-V disagreement notwithstanding. Carol: we would all be using our own spelling and grammar (which, alas, appears to be the case among many young Americans today who have not been taught grammar (standard usage), spelling, punctuation, or even penmanship. CJ: A sentiment I heard a generation ago and which, no doubt, has been echoed in every generation since 1755. I'm not sure it's so much a case of youth not being taught "standard" grammar so much as youth not finding much use for it. But it is youth culture, with its chatspeak and disdain for "standard" grammar, that provides so much of the dynamism that drives English forward. Words like "manga", "chill pill", "ragazine" "tweener", "Goth" and "bludge" (all of which were added to the OED recently) were coined by twenty-somethings whose avowed purpose is often explicitly driven by an aversion to the "rules". Carol: Carol, who can think of no better way of determining a standard than a consensus of the informed and educated. CJ (ignoring the elitism implicit in the above): Depending on how you choose to define "informed" and "educated", not to mention "standard". One wonders whether, say, Shakespeare, with his grammar school education (not to mention his contemporaries' derisive opionions vis-a-vis his use of English) would make the cut. Certainly the youth whose linguistic innovations you bemoan above are (assuming they finished high school) better educated than many of history's literary giants. Standards exist to facilitate communication, it is true. But effective communication requires speaking your target audience's language. Where one wishes to communicate across the English-speaking world, or with academicians, then a mastery of "standard" English would be requisite. But if one wishes to dialogue with the chatspeak generation, insistence on the "standard" rules of English could actually be detrimental, and a well-placed "c u l8er" might communicate far more effectively than a bookful of Shakespearian citations. Myself, I'd agree with you right up to the "consensus" part. But I'd wonder why the great "unwashed masses" were being excluded from defining the very language they speak. "Standard" is fine so long as, as Geoff said, the "informed and educated" are prepared to accept rather than arbitrate. BTW, did you get a chance to look at the Haskell and MacDonald study I linked to? One of the intriguing results it found was that English speakers *do* exhibit a preference in disjunctives for nearer-noun agreement, but that the preference is significantly more pronounced when the plural noun is the nearer of the two. But the same "proximity effect" results as often in ungrammatical constructs as it does in grammatical -- such as the tendency toward agreeing with interposed objects of prepositions (e.g., "The pair of shoes are missing.") potioncat: You're going to let the unwashed masses decide? Oh, dear. ....Grammar and pronunciation will go out the window--erm winder. CJ: As far as the unwashed masses are concerned, it never *came in* the window. The masses have been speaking non-standard English -- and driving the evolution of the language -- since the days of Chancery English at least, notwithstanding (or much noticing) the disdain of grammatical authorities. --CJ (who really is leaving for the States in a few hours and who will be unable to continue this fascinating discussion. Maybe.) From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jul 1 12:09:40 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:09:40 -0000 Subject: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > They don't have to be unwashed to speak UK English. As for the others, well...... > > Anyway, what's York got to do with it? Potioncat: Isn't York one the regions with its own strong accent/dialect? No, wait, that's "New" York--on this side of the pond. ;-) As interesting as this thread is, a good deal of it is over my head. In another post CJ was talking about teachers trying to unlearn* bad speaking patterns in their students. I can remember as well that school English was almost like a foreign language. Never mind that my mother had been trying to correct many of the same errors. I think she had picked up many of the local speech patterns so she would fit in better. She had come from New York to the rural South. *learn for teach was a common switch of words, as I recall. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Tue Jul 1 18:25:38 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:25:38 -0000 Subject: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > > > Geoff: > > They don't have to be unwashed to speak UK English. As for the > others, well...... > > > > Anyway, what's York got to do with it? > > > Potioncat: > > Isn't York one the regions with its own strong accent/dialect? No, > wait, that's "New" York--on this side of the pond. ;-) Geoff: Ah, you mean YorkSHIRE. York is the main city in the district. Yorkshire is not the only strong regional accent. I can quote Lancashire, Northumberland, Cumbrian, various Welsh accents, ditto Scots, then a range of West Country accents without even touching the East and South-east... From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 21:53:27 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:53:27 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs Message-ID: Ok, if I'm talking about shelves the way is clear Singular = Shelf Plural = Shelves. Even if I talking about those big racks along the wall where we store our books, the way is clear Singular = bookshelf Plural = bookshelves But now is where it gets complicated. I was discussing the nature of and preference for Bookshelf Speakers vs Floor Standing Speakers. But in casual conversation, 'Floor Standing' becomes Floorstander or Floorstanders, even though the word should more correctly be separate. But the even more complicated matter is Bookshelf Speakers. The singular is obviously 'bookshelf' but what is the plural? It is not really 'bookshelf' that is plural, it is 'speakers'. We are not talking about two bookshelves, we are talking about two bookshelf speakers, which are referred to in short as "Bookshelfs". Which of course bring up the very problem at hand, in this context, is 'Bookshelfs' correct when referring to more than one Bookshelf Speaker? Inquiring minds want to know. Keep in mind that bookshelf vs bookshelves is easy, but bookshelf speaker vs bookshelf speakers, when referred to in shorthand is where the complication comes in. steve/bboyminn From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 23:59:48 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:59:48 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > Ah, you mean YorkSHIRE. York is the main city in the district. > > Yorkshire is not the only strong regional accent. I can quote > Lancashire, Northumberland, Cumbrian, various Welsh accents, > ditto Scots, then a range of West Country accents without even > touching the East and South-east... Goddlefrood: You also do a good line in cockney, dontcha guv'nor? There are some who claim to be able to distinguish between accents to such an extent that the very street one grew up in is discernible. Any who are familiar with Jimmy White the snooker player would know his accent to be quite distinctive. I met a man some years ago who sounded like the vocal twin of Mr. White and he informed me I had the wrong street as he lived a few streets away from Jimmy. In terms of Cheshire, where I'm ostensibly from, I can distinguish between towns. Chester varies from Warrington (a distance of perhaps 15 miles) quite noticeably and other towns in the centre, east, south or north of Cheshire differ from those two very distinctly. My town has given the world - well, the immediate world of said town anyway - the word chudder, but I doubt if that would be found in any dictionary. Having been to the States several times, I can also discern a large difference in accents from city to city and state to state. Those on a micro level will, I have no doubt, tell us that from Mukwanago to Troy or from Albany to Buffalo there is a difference in accent. Hoots man Goddlefrood From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jul 2 11:59:32 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:59:32 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Goddlefrood: > Having been to the States several times, I can also discern > a large difference in accents from city to city and state to > state. Those on a micro level will, I have no doubt, tell us > that from Mukwanago to Troy or from Albany to Buffalo there > is a difference in accent. Potioncat: I can vouch for Southern accents. That is, there isn't just one Southern accent, there are several. My Mom and I made a trip from Upstate South Carolina to Charlestown, SC when I was a teenager. We asked a question about Charlestown and the person actually corrected our pronuciation! (There's no such thing as an 'r' in Lowland accents.) I have to say, I like the genteel Southern (sometimes Lowland) accent very much, although that's not the one I grew up with. Rickman come close, but not quite, in 'Something the Lord Made.' From n2fgc at arrl.net Wed Jul 2 16:41:19 2008 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:41:19 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [Steve B]: | But the even more complicated matter is Bookshelf Speakers. | | The singular is obviously 'bookshelf' but what is the plural? | | It is not really 'bookshelf' that is plural, it is 'speakers'. | | We are not talking about two bookshelves, we are talking about | two bookshelf speakers, which are referred to in short as | "Bookshelfs". | | Which of course bring up the very problem at hand, in this | context, is 'Bookshelfs' correct when referring to more than | one Bookshelf Speaker? | | Inquirin [Lee]: You're still talking about more than one speaker, however, you're using the style type "bookshelf" rather than the number of speakers. Since the style type is in the singular "Bookshelf," you are expressing a desire for more than one speaker of the same style, so, IMHO, since the style name is a singular, the fact that you want more than one still doesn't change it's name. saying you want two bookshelfs when referring to the speakers in actuality seems correct to me. Cheers, Lee :-) (Who would probably skip the shortening and say that she wanted two bookshelf speakers.) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Wed Jul 2 20:33:31 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:33:31 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" wrote: > > [Steve B]: > | But the even more complicated matter is Bookshelf Speakers. > | > | The singular is obviously 'bookshelf' but what is the plural? > | > | It is not really 'bookshelf' that is plural, it is 'speakers'. > | > | We are not talking about two bookshelves, we are talking about > | two bookshelf speakers, which are referred to in short as > | "Bookshelfs". > | > | Which of course bring up the very problem at hand, in this > | context, is 'Bookshelfs' correct when referring to more than > | one Bookshelf Speaker? > | > | Inquirin > > [Lee]: > You're still talking about more than one speaker, however, you're using the > style type "bookshelf" rather than the number of speakers. Since the style > type is in the singular "Bookshelf," you are expressing a desire for more > than one speaker of the same style, so, IMHO, since the style name is a > singular, the fact that you want more than one still doesn't change it's > name. saying you want two bookshelfs when referring to the speakers in > actuality seems correct to me. Geoff: I think the point is that, in this instance, "Bookshelf" is functioning as an adjective to "Shelf" or "shelves" and since adjectives are no longer inflected in English, "Bookshelf speakers" would be the correct form. Other peculiarities which sometimes arise and are wrongly handled in English are words which are hyphenated or have the noun at the beginning. Examples which spring immediately to mind are: aide-de-camp, aide- memoire, master-at-arms and auto-da-f? for which the plurals are aides-de-camp, aides-memoire, masters-at-arms and autos-da-f?. Looking at the ones which spring to mind straight away, perhaps I ought to lie down quietly in a darkened room. :-) Seriously, you can probably provide further examples. This also harks back to sonething Carol wrote on Main a day or so ago when she asked whether the plural of "deus ex machina" was "Dei ex machinae" and my answer would be 'no'; it should be "dei ex machina" because in the context there should only be one machine. From Mhochberg at aol.com Wed Jul 2 22:29:24 2008 From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:29:24 EDT Subject: HP related computer classes for elementary school Message-ID: Hi! A few weeks ago I asked for suggestions about activities for elementary school students in a computer lab. Since it would be the last day of computer lab classes before the year ended, I wanted to have fun with it. My original plan called for me to dress in costume (a visiting professor) and take the students to different websites. I did this at two different schools for a total of 10 classes. It was a great success, especially at the second school, where I also told the students that I would not be returning next year (true) as I would be returning to my home school (also true). However, being careful about my phrasing, some students thought I meant Hogwarts, not a school across town. For the first grade students, we went to the Scholastic website. _http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/_ (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/) There, we skipped the game section, which did not work well, and spent most of our time with the pronunciation guide. The 2/3 grade classes went to the Bloomsbury site. _http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/_ (http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/) We looked at cover art, especially those from different countries. The students were fascinated by the different looks for Harry and found the clothing intriguing. We also looked at website created by a 5th grade team for the Thinkquest contest. _http://library.thinkquest.org/J001738F/_ (http://library.thinkquest.org/J001738F/) Finally the 4/5 grade classes went to JK own site. _http://www.jkrowling.com/_ (http://www.jkrowling.com/) I wanted them to see a website that had many languages as well as text-only versions. After a bit of exploring there, we went to a website created by high school students that had many different languages. _http://library.thinkquest.org/C006090/index_e.html_ (http://library.thinkquest.org/C006090/index_e.html) This site was in English, German, Turkish, Danish, Polish, French, Russian, Gaelic, Hungarian, and Latin. Finally, we went back to the Pronunciation Guide in the Scholastic site and began looking at the word roots, puns, and derivations. Several of them were delighted or surprised when we looked at the word "Grimauld." It was a lot of fun, for both me and the students. I am very glad that I did it. ---Mary "Live now, procrastinate later." **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (www.tourtracker.com ?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jenn at phynn-phamily.us Wed Jul 2 23:06:21 2008 From: jenn at phynn-phamily.us (Jenn) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:06:21 -0000 Subject: question... Message-ID: Does HPfGU OT no longer do birthdays, or is the birthday elf on vacation? I was just wondering... Poppy, whose birthday came and went without salutations. Oh well.... From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 23:16:33 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:16:33 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Potioncat: > I can vouch for Southern accents. That is, there isn't just > one Southern accent, there are several. > (There's no such thing as an 'r' in Lowland accents.) Mike: It seems that accents in the US are slowly fading away. Sure, regional accents still exist, but not to the degree they used to. I often notice a large difference in accents between generations even when both generational individuals have remained within the same region. They may retain those peculiarities like you point out PC, but the overall accent keeps getting less pronounced. I remember visiting southern Alabama back in the 70s and being almost unable to understand a young lady with a syrupy southern accent. But talk to someone from there today, someone that has still lived there all her life and it won't be near that degree. What I notice more today is cadence instead of accents. I remember my time in west Texas where people there thought "y'all" had three syllables. ;-) > Potioncat: > Rickman came close, > but not quite, in 'Something the Lord Made.' Mike: I watched a little bit of December Boys last night. Sorry Geoff, Dan Radcliffe wasn't even close with his attempt at an Aussie accent. His pronounciation and cadence was markedly different than his other young-boy costars. He was not very believable as an Australian orphan, or did I miss something and he wasn't supposed to be an Aussie-born? From bboyminn at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 23:40:01 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:40:01 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > > --- "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" > wrote: > > > > [Steve B]: > > | But the even more complicated matter is Bookshelf Speakers. > > | > > | ... > > | We are not talking about two bookshelves, we are talking about > > | two bookshelf speakers, which are referred to in short as > > | "Bookshelfs". > > | > > | Which of course bring up the very problem at hand, in this > > | context, is 'Bookshelfs' correct when referring to more > > | than one Bookshelf Speaker? > > | > > | Inquirin > > > > [Lee]: > > You're still talking about more than one speaker, however, > > you're using the style type "bookshelf" rather than the > > number of speakers. Since the style type is in the singular > > "Bookshelf," ... the fact that you want more than one still > > doesn't change it's name. saying you want two bookshelfs > > ... seems correct to me. > > Geoff: > I think the point is that, in this instance, "Bookshelf" is > functioning as an adjective to "Shelf" or "shelves" and since > adjectives are no longer inflected in English, "Bookshelf > speakers" would be the correct form. > > bboyminn: Of course, 'Bookshelf Speakers' is correct, but in casual conversation we refer to the singular as bookshelf and floorstander, and the plural as bookshelfs and floorstanders. With the word 'speakers' in, the answer is clear, but what about without the word 'speaker', yet still referring to multiple speakers? So, is anyone going to go for the contraction bookshelf's where the "'s" indicates that the word 'speaker' has been left out of the phrase? (just kidding) Steve/bboyminn From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com Thu Jul 3 02:59:00 2008 From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:59:00 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Mike: > > It seems that accents in the US are slowly fading away. > Sure, regional accents still exist, but not to the degree > they used to. I often notice a large difference in accents > between generations even when both generational individuals > have remained within the same region. They may retain those > peculiarities like you point out PC, but the overall accent > keeps getting less pronounced. > > I remember visiting southern Alabama back in the 70s and being > almost unable to understand a young lady with a syrupy southern > accent. But talk to someone from there today, someone that has > still lived there all her life and it won't be near that degree. > > What I notice more today is cadence instead of accents. I > remember my time in west Texas where people there thought > "y'all" had three syllables. ;-) Tiffany: The slang is what really I think is tough to pick up on, esp. if not used to the local dialects & ways of saying words. I was in Philadelphia last year & some of the slang there was almost hearing a foreign language. Wooder is water, Fluffia is Philadelphia, just to name a few of them there. I know of a lot of foregin students in classes that say learning the different forms of slang here in the US was tough for them. From willsonkmom at msn.com Thu Jul 3 03:41:50 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:41:50 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany B. Clark" wrote: > > > Mike: > > > > It seems that accents in the US are slowly fading away. > > Sure, regional accents still exist, but not to the degree > > they used to. I often notice a large difference in accents > > between generations even when both generational individuals > > have remained within the same region. They may retain those > > peculiarities like you point out PC, but the overall accent > > keeps getting less pronounced. Potioncat: I've noticed that too, especially when I go back home. Now it's more a surprise when I do hear the old sounds than when I don't. The other change is food. Restaurants are generally national chains and regional differences are fading away. No longer do you walk into a mom-and-pop restaurant. I don't I'll ever forget how surprised my northern cousins were to dicover mayonaise on hamburgers, or how surprised I was to discover northern iced tea was made without sugar. > > Tiffany: > > The slang is what really I think is tough to pick up on, esp. if not > used to the local dialects & ways of saying words. I was in > Philadelphia last year & some of the slang there was almost hearing a > foreign language. Wooder is water, Fluffia is Philadelphia, just to > name a few of them there. I know of a lot of foregin students in > classes that say learning the different forms of slang here in the US > was tough for them. Potioncat: Wooder! That's it! My husband grew up in the NJ suburbs of Philly. To this day he always pauses and says "water" very slowly and distinctly because so many people have not understood him. Southerners use (or used to use) the word 'carry' to mean to give a ride to someone who wants to go somewhere. "I'll carry you to the doctor." while 'take' means to force someone to go, "I'll take you to the doctor." From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Jul 3 06:32:55 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:32:55 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote: > Mike: > I watched a little bit of December Boys last night. Sorry > Geoff, Dan Radcliffe wasn't even close with his attempt at > an Aussie accent. His pronounciation and cadence was markedly > different than his other young-boy costars. He was not very > believable as an Australian orphan, or did I miss something > and he wasn't supposed to be an Aussie-born? Geoff: Dunno why you apologised... Have I ever commented on Dan's Australian accent? Don't recall doing so. I haven't managed to see "December Boys". It had a very limited distribution in the UK and I haven't acquired the DVD so far. It seems to have slipped below my radar. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Jul 3 06:36:32 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:36:32 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" wrote: [Lee]: > > > You're still talking about more than one speaker, however, > > > you're using the style type "bookshelf" rather than the > > > number of speakers. Since the style type is in the singular > > > "Bookshelf," ... the fact that you want more than one still > > > doesn't change it's name. saying you want two bookshelfs > > > ... seems correct to me. Geoff: > > I think the point is that, in this instance, "Bookshelf" is > > functioning as an adjective to "Shelf" or "shelves" and since > > adjectives are no longer inflected in English, "Bookshelf > > speakers" would be the correct form. bboyminn: > Of course, 'Bookshelf Speakers' is correct, but in casual > conversation we refer to the singular as bookshelf and > floorstander, and the plural as bookshelfs and floorstanders. > > With the word 'speakers' in, the answer is clear, but what > about without the word 'speaker', yet still referring to > multiple speakers? > > So, is anyone going to go for the contraction bookshelf's > where the "'s" indicates that the word 'speaker' has been left > out of the phrase? (just kidding) Geoff: For me, this conversation is a bit esoteric because until the phrase surfaced here a day or so ago, I'd never heard of bookshelf speakers! Obviously another of those UK/US divides. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 20:31:40 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:31:40 -0000 Subject: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol, who can think of no better way of determining a standard than a > > consensus of the informed and educated > > Geoff: > Provided that the "informed and educated" - whoever they may be - are > prepared to accept a consensus and not argue that they and they alone > are the arbiters of the language. Carol again: That's the whole idea. Carol, apologizing for the short post From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 22:01:04 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:01:04 -0000 Subject: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects In-Reply-To: <48698FBB.7090301@yahoo.com> Message-ID: CJ: > My own intuitions are in agreement with Geoff's -- of the three, "Neither he nor I are" is the only one that doesn't raise the metaphorical hackles of my native intuition, and would be my reference in cases where a rewrite were infeasible. If I might be so bold as to impose my own intuitions on the general populace, I suspect "are" would be the preference of a majority -- or at least a plurality -- of English speakers. Carol responds: i think that the preference of most English speakers would be to avoid such awkward constructions altogether. I also notice that the rest of this paragraph (and your post in general) conforms perfectly to standard English, so that your "intuition" and the consensus agreed upon by authorities in the field are identical. Your instinct, in other words, is to speak (well, write, in this instance) "good English." (A great many people share this instinct. However, not all of them have been taught standard English, and so they'll come up with solecisms, such as "May I help who's next?" (where did that miserable phrase come from and how did it spread so quickly?) or "John and myself need to lay down" (okay, I made that one up by combining two errors, or, if you prefer, two constructions that are considered to be nonstandard). So, should we start saying, "I need to lay down" if it turns out that a plurality of English speakers use it, or should we continue to preserve the distinction between "lay" and "lie"? I, of course, favor preserving the distinction, but I don't claim to be unbiased. Copyeditors must, after all, have something to do, and correcting (or standardizing) the grammar, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization for the sake of clarity and consistency throughout a given manuscript and all the works published by a given publisher (most American publishers use "The Chicago Manual of Style" and Merriam-Webster as their authorities) is a large part of our work. > CJ: > I'm not sure it's so much a case of youth not being taught "standard" grammar so much as youth not finding much use for it. But it is youth culture, with its chatspeak and disdain for "standard" grammar, that provides so much of the dynamism that drives English forward. Words like "manga", "chill pill", "ragazine" "tweener", "Goth" and "bludge" (all of which were added to the OED recently) were coined by twenty-somethings whose avowed purpose is often explicitly driven by an aversion to the "rules". > Carol: Slang is generally ephemeral. One of two things will happen to those words: either they'll be incorporated into standard English or they'll go the way of "the cat's pajamas." Since slang is generally invented by young people, who will inevitably (if they survive) become the next "older generation," they'll see their slang disappear just as my generation did. ("Groovy, man!") Not that slang has much to do with standard usage (which is not the same as "correct" grammar). I suspect that you and I agree that "ragazine," whatever its meaning, is a singular, third-person neuter noun and therefore requires a singular verb (third-person singular if the verb is a form of "to be," the gender of the noun making no difference to the verb form in English. Carol, not ready to yield to the tyranny of the masses (however well-washed they may be in soap- and deodorant-loving America), in the matter of standard usage (or spelling) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 22:23:22 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:23:22 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > I can vouch for Southern accents. That is, there isn't just one Southern accent, there are several. My Mom and I made a trip from Upstate South Carolina to Charlestown, SC when I was a teenager. We asked a question about Charlestown and the person actually corrected our pronuciation! (There's no such thing as an 'r' in Lowland accents.) > > I have to say, I like the genteel Southern (sometimes Lowland) accent very much, although that's not the one I grew up with. Rickman come close, but not quite, in 'Something the Lord Made.' Carol responds: Right. The distinctions in Southern accents appear to be partly regional and partly cultural. (Dare I mention the educational level of the speakers without being called elitist? Not by you, of course. :-) ) Robert E. Lee's cultivated Virginia dialect was quite different from that spoken by, say, Aunt Polly in "Tom Sawyer." And, of course, it's not just accent but vocabulary that distinguishes "Southern" from the more standard Middle American. I remember being asked when I lived (briefly) in North Carolina what kind of "co-cola" I wanted. As far as I was concerned, there was only one kind of Coca Cola. I think I asked the person whether she meant Coke vs. Pepsi (or RC, which, IIRC, was the cola of choice in NC at that time), and she explained that she was asking whether I wanted an orange "co-cola" or a grape. I ended up with a "rootbeer cocola." I also discovered that "bobacue" was "poke." No barbecued chicken or beef on the menu. And then there's Southern food that doesn't even exist in other regions, such as grits and "chitlins." 'Scuse me. I need to borra some fatback from a neighbor so we all can have some chitlins and punkin' pah. (Sorry, Potioncat. I'm probably remembering it all inaccurately. I do clearly remember, though, my bank manager boss, Miz (Mrs.) Page, informing me that "we all lives within hollerin'distance of the old homeplace." Carol, who felt throughout her year in NC that she had somehow stepped inside the pages of "to Kill a Mockingbird" From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 22:43:17 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:43:17 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff: > I think the point is that, in this instance, "Bookshelf" is functioning as an adjective to "Shelf" or "shelves" and since adjectives are no longer inflected in English, "Bookshelf speakers" would be the correct form. Carol responds: I agree. However, I suspect that "bookshelfs" (an invented regular plural for the adjective transformed into a noun) also provides a useful distinction between bookshelf speakers and bookshelves in a request addressed to a clerk at Office Depot or a similar store that might sell both. ("Bookshelves" is, of course, an irregular plural.) Speaking of which, does anyone know the correct (or accepted) plural for "mouse" (computer mouse)? Is it "mice" or "mouses" or something else? Geoff: > Other peculiarities which sometimes arise and are wrongly handled in English Carol: Sorry to interrupt, but I see that you're advocating correctness, not whatever the masses decide to write or say. Good for you! Geoff resumed: are words which are hyphenated or have the noun at the beginning. Examples which spring immediately to mind are: aide-de-camp, aide- memoire, master-at-arms and auto-da-f? for which the plurals are aides-de-camp, aides-memoire, masters-at-arms and autos-da-f?. Looking at the ones which spring to mind straight away, perhaps I ought to lie down quietly in a darkened room. > :-) > > Seriously, you can probably provide further examples. Carol: How about mothers-in-law and passers-by? Geoff: > This also harks back to sonething Carol wrote on Main a day or so ago when she asked whether the plural of "deus ex machina" was "Dei ex machinae" and my answer would be 'no'; it should be "dei ex machina" because in the context there should only be one machine. Carol responds: Thanks, Geoff. I hadn't thought about there being only one machine, but that makes perfect sense. I should simply have pluralized the English translation (gods from the machine) and then translated it back. Ah. Logic and grammar working together. Wish it were always that simple. BTW, logic is the basis of many of the rules of grammar that CJ finds so objectionable. For example, in math(s), two negatives make a positive, so, logically, a double negative is a positive: "I don't want none" means "I want some." Of course, the restriction on double negatives deprives us of such gems as "Nor this is not my nose, neither," one of my favorite Shakespearean lines. Carol, afraid that the topic of this post has bounced around like a basketball From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 22:51:30 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:51:30 -0000 Subject: question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Poppy wrote: > > Does HPfGU OT no longer do birthdays, or is the birthday elf on vacation? I was just wondering... > Poppy, whose birthday came and went without salutations. Oh well.... Carol responds: Don't worry. The trend began as early as April. Alla and I were both left without cake or balloons. I thought that maybe our birthday elf was busy with her taxes, but I haven't seen any birthday greetings on the list at all since February or March. I hope that our birthday elf is just busy and that everything is going well in her life. Maybe keeping up with all the birthdays in such a large group was too much to manage or she has other, more important, obligations. Carol, just wanting Poppy to know that she's not alone From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Jul 3 23:00:04 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:00:04 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: Geoff: > > Other peculiarities which sometimes arise and are wrongly handled in > English > Carol: > Sorry to interrupt, but I see that you're advocating correctness, not > whatever the masses decide to write or say. Good for you! Geoff resumed: > are words which are hyphenated or have the noun at the beginning. > Examples which spring immediately to mind are: aide-de-camp, aide- > memoire, master-at-arms and auto-da-f? for which the plurals are > aides-de-camp, aides-memoire, masters-at-arms and autos-da-f?. > Looking at the ones which spring to mind straight away, perhaps I > ought to lie down quietly in a darkened room. > > :-) > > > > Seriously, you can probably provide further examples. > > Carol: > How about mothers-in-law and passers-by? Geoff: Precisely. Thank you. Carol: > BTW, logic is the basis of many of the rules of grammar that CJ finds > so objectionable. For example, in math(s), two negatives make a > positive, so, logically, a double negative is a positive: "I don't > want none" means "I want some." Of course, the restriction on double > negatives deprives us of such gems as "Nor this is not my nose, > neither," one of my favorite Shakespearean lines. Geoff: I recall teaching that "I don't want none" is bad grammar and is a double negative, but there are occasions - as I pointed out not so long ago - that double negatives are used in English to produce certain nuances of meaning. Consider as an example "I am happy with the outcome" with "I am not unhappy with the outcome". there is a subtle difference between them. The first can be read at face value while the second implies a neutrality of feeling. The speaker is not unhappy but isn't necessarily happy. Thinking about this the other day, I appreciated that this construction, which is a permissible double negative, is used more often than I realised. Geoff Who is not dissatisfied with the interesting way this thread has moved. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 23:01:26 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:01:26 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > Southerners use (or used to use) the word 'carry' to mean to give a ride to someone who wants to go somewhere. "I'll carry you to the doctor." while 'take' means to force someone to go, "I'll take you to the doctor." Carol responds: That reminds me of a public service announcement that used to appear on TV and radio in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The version I was familiar with (Arizona English) said, "Don't take your children to church. Bring them" (meaning, of course, don't take your children to church; go to church with them). The NC version was, "Don't take your children to church. Carry them"! Carol, feeling sorry for parents with large families, especially if those families contain teenagers, "carrying" their children to church! From willsonkmom at msn.com Thu Jul 3 23:42:05 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:42:05 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: I ended up with a "rootbeer cocola." I also discovered that > "bobacue" was "poke." No barbecued chicken or beef on the menu. And > then there's Southern food that doesn't even exist in other regions, > such as grits and "chitlins." Potioncat: What a stroll down memory lane! Yep, I remember when coca-cola meant any soda pop (sort of like Kleenex for any tissue) Of course, I wouldn't have had any idea at that time what soda pop was. Poke for barbie-Q must be strictly NC. In SC a poke was a bag. >Carol: > 'Scuse me. I need to borra some fatback from a neighbor so we all can > have some chitlins and punkin' pah. (Sorry, Potioncat. I'm probably > remembering it all inaccurately. I do clearly remember, though, my > bank manager boss, Miz (Mrs.) Page, informing me that "we all lives > within hollerin'distance of the old homeplace." Potioncat: Fatback! Haven't had it in years. My arteries couldn't take it now, nor my taste buds. Just for laughs I pointed it out to my kids the last time we were in a SC grocery store. Good thing the rest rooms were nearby. Chitlins--never had, nor tripe (the fancier version) pumpkin pie-- I make that several times every fall. My aunts referred to the homeplace all the time. No mansion, mind you. Something of a rural version of Spinners End. My grandparents were tennant farmers prior to WWII, but I don't know the difference between that and share croppers. > Carol: > BTW, logic is the basis of many of the rules of grammar that CJ finds > so objectionable. For example, in math(s), two negatives make a > positive, so, logically, a double negative is a positive: "I don't > want none" means "I want some." Of course, the restriction on double > negatives deprives us of such gems as "Nor this is not my nose, > neither," one of my favorite Shakespearean lines. Potioncat: Erm...I don't think so. If I said, "No, thank you ma'am, I don't want none," It would mean I did not want any. Of course, any Southern hostess worth her salt would dish out another serving or two anyway. Double negatives may translate differently out west or up north. Ya'll come back now, heah? From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 01:08:03 2008 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:08:03 -0000 Subject: question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > Don't worry. The trend began as early as April. Alla and I were both > left without cake or balloons. I thought that maybe our birthday elf > was busy with her taxes, but I haven't seen any birthday greetings on > the list at all since February or March. I hope that our birthday elf > is just busy and that everything is going well in her life. Maybe > keeping up with all the birthdays in such a large group was too much > to manage or she has other, more important, obligations. > > Carol, just wanting Poppy to know that she's not alone > Alla: Birthday elf did not ask me to post this, but I am posting this anyways. Yes, she is extremely busy in RL right now. Happy 4th of July to american list members :) From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 01:54:17 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:54:17 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Carol: > > For example, in math(s), two negatives make a > > positive, so, logically, a double negative is a positive: > > "I don't want none" means "I want some." > > Potioncat: > Erm...I don't think so. If I said, "No, thank you ma'am, I don't > want none," It would mean I did not want any. > > Double negatives may translate differently out west or up north. > > Ya'll come back now, heah? Mike: How would y'all translate a triple negative? I recently overheard a woman on a cell phone telling someone: "I ain't never not told him ..." So, did she tell him or not? This was "up north" PC. ;-) From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jul 4 02:52:36 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:52:36 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Mike: > How would y'all translate a triple negative? > > I recently overheard a woman on a cell phone telling someone: > "I ain't never not told him ..." > So, did she tell him or not? > > This was "up north" PC. ;-) Potioncat: Isn't it obvious? (Potioncat wonders if Mike is just teasing, and of course it's obvious to him.) She has never "not told him" as in " I've never not told him the truth when he asked me how he looked." Ain't never is the same as haven't ever (or have never). ...Just because, that's why. On the other hand, does anyone else say something along the line of "Why don't we buy a new rug?" Doesn't that mean the speaker wants to buy one? I get teased for talking like this all the time. English isn't logical. After all, a fat chance and a slim chance are the same thing. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Jul 4 06:45:24 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:45:24 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: Potioncat: > English isn't logical. After all, a fat chance and a slim chance are > the same thing. Geoff: Depends on your metabolism. With me, it's a slim chance - much to my wife's annoyance. :-) From marion11111 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 13:52:06 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:52:06 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Potioncat: > > English isn't logical. After all, a fat chance and a slim chance are > > the same thing. > > Geoff: > Depends on your metabolism. > > With me, it's a slim chance - much to my wife's annoyance. > :-) > Hmmm - my chances all seem to be fat. Speaking of confusing meanings - does anyone else remember when signs read "Inflammable?' Many have changed to say "Flammable" because people thought that inflammable meant fireproof. And clinics no longer send out letters telling you your test results are negative because people were having panic fits. Now the letter says "your test results are entirely normal." And up here in the north woods, double and triple negatives are just as common as down south. The following is a typical classroom exchange - I've had this one myself. Small child: Nah, I don't want none. Teacher (correcting gently): No, I don't want any. Small child (surprised): Oh, don't you want none neither? From bgrugin at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 14:14:57 2008 From: bgrugin at yahoo.com (bgrugin) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:14:57 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: I remember being > asked when I lived (briefly) in North Carolina what kind of "co-cola" > I wanted. As far as I was concerned, there was only one kind of Coca > Cola. I think I asked the person whether she meant Coke vs. Pepsi (or > RC, which, IIRC, was the cola of choice in NC at that time), and she > explained that she was asking whether I wanted an orange "co-cola" or > a grape. I ended up with a "rootbeer cocola." I also discovered that > "bobacue" was "poke." No barbecued chicken or beef on the menu. And > then there's Southern food that doesn't even exist in other regions, > such as grits and "chitlins." > > Carol, who felt throughout her year in NC that she had somehow stepped > inside the pages of "to Kill a Mockingbird" > MusicalBetsy here: Oh my gosh, I'm reliving my youth!! I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia with many relatives in Florida, and in Atlanta, everything is a Coke! Of course, Coca Cola is headquarted in Atlanta, so it's understandable, but I grew up with these type of conversations at restaurants: Me: I'd like a coke. Waitress: What type of coke? Me: Hmm, I guess a Sprite. When I moved to Michigan 17 years ago, I taught at a school where there was a sign over the doors to the gym that read "No pop in gym." I had NO idea what that meant!! I found it hilarious when I discovered that it meant soda - the other word of course for "coke." I thought "pop" referred to a father! I still can't bring myself to order a "pop." MusicalBetsy, with her laugh for the day at her lovely southern roots (and who misses grits tremendously, because she still can't find them in the UP of Michigan...) From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 18:01:39 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:01:39 -0000 Subject: English grammar and such: On the Nature of Bookshelfs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > > Carol: > > ... For example, in math(s), two negatives make a > > positive, so, logically, a double negative is a positive: > > "I don't want none" means "I want some." ... > > Geoff: > I recall teaching that "I don't want none" is bad grammar and > ..., but there are occasions - ... - that double negatives are > used in English to produce certain nuances of meaning. > > Consider as an example "I am happy with the outcome" with "I > am not unhappy with the outcome". there is a subtle difference > between them. ... Thinking about this the other day, I > appreciated that this construction, which is a permissible > double negative, is used more often than I realised. > > Geoff > Who is not dissatisfied with the interesting way this thread > has moved. > bboyminn: I'm reminded of a regional vaguely double negative that I suspect is attributable to the sedate nature of local Scandinavians. It is the method of paying a Cook a compliment by taking a bite and saying 'Mmmmm....not bad'. Now is the context that Geoff suggests, the underlying meaning is neutral; implying "it's OK, but nothing special". But in the regional context where I live, it is the equivalent of saying 'this food is very good'. But as I said, a sedate and civil Scandinavian would never make such a bold statement as 'this is good', so rather he says, 'this is not bad'. Really every Cook I know takes 'not bad' as meaning 'very good'. For whatever little logic that contains. Steve/bluewizard From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 18:08:38 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:08:38 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Carol" wrote: > >... > Carol responds: > > ... > > 'Scuse me. I need to borra some fatback from a neighbor so we > all can have some chitlins and punkin' pah. ... > > Carol, who felt throughout her year in NC that she had > somehow stepped inside the pages of "to Kill a Mockingbird" > bboyminn: 'punkin pah'???? Don't you mean 'Sweet Pertater Pah'? Just curious. Steve/blueminn From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 19:13:52 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:13:52 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > BTW, logic is the basis of many of the rules of grammar that CJ finds so objectionable. For example, in math(s), two negatives make a positive, so, logically, a double negative is a positive: "I don't want none" means "I want some." Of course, the restriction on double negatives deprives us of such gems as "Nor this is not my nose, neither," one of my favorite Shakespearean lines. > Potioncat responded: > Erm...I don't think so. If I said, "No, thank you ma'am, I don't want none," It would mean I did not want any. > Double negatives may translate differently out west or up north. Carol responds: I didn't mean that the person using a double negative intends it to indicate a positive. (Sheesh, that sounds pompous!) IOW, a person who says "I don't want none" really means "I don't want *any*" even though he's saying that he doesn't want "none." I'm just saying that the prescriptive grammarians banned double negatives in the first place (with the possible exception of the kind Geoff was talking about, as in "not unhappy," in which case the speaker or writer is perfectly aware that "not" and "un-" cancel each other) because they were trying to make English logical. If I don't want *none*, I must want *some*--at least if my words are taken literally. Shakespeare and his contemporaries, like a Southerner speaking in dialect rather than standard English, used multiple negatives for emphasis, as in my example, "Nor this is not my nose, neither." We would say, "And this isn't my nose, either." (The idea is that the other person is denying an obvious truth.) The Shakespearean version is more colorful and emphatic, but the modern version is clearer and more logical. (IMO.) Anyway, the reason English teachers tell students not to use double negatives (aside from being "incorrect" according to the rules of prescriptive grammar) is that they logically mean the opposite of their intended meaning. Of course, double negatives are often combined with other errors (actual errors, as in a singular subject with a plural verb): "He don't want none," for example. The listener knows perfectly well that the speaker means, "He doesn't want any," but the speaker sounds, to many people, uneducated or, at the very least, careless. (Sorry to sound elitist, but many people do judge others on their educational level, whether we like it or not. In fact, there would be little point in getting an education if they didn't.) But I'm the first to admit that Southernisms are colorful, much more so than the jargon-tinged attempts at formal English that we hear from a wide range of people as the result of pop psychology. The sample edit I just finished has a husband asking his wife how they can schedule "quality time together on a regular basis"!!!! Whatever happened to, "We need more time together, babe"? To get back to "speaking Southern," "it don't make *me* no never mind" can't be made grammatical ("It doesn't make *me* any never mind" doesnt work) and is delicious and memorable in itself (I still recall the circumstances in which I heard it and who said it even though it happened in 1970). Our standard English version, "It doesn't matter to *me*" ("me" has to be emphasized to achieve the effect of the original sentence) is clear but boring and "I don't give a damn" is clear and emphatic but trite (and leaves out "me"). If only we could combine the colorful and imaginative language used by unselfconscious rural people like Reggie (a Southerner living in "Fetvull, No-Cahlina" in the early seventies) and the precision of educated speakers who have been taught grammar and rhetoric. These days, Americans can't even curse imaginatively. (Isn't it the Arabs who make that a speciality?) Carol, who used to teach the Six C's to her composition classes: Clarity, Conciseness, Concreteness, Coherence, Correctness, and Color and still believes that good writing blends all six elements From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 19:17:44 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:17:44 -0000 Subject: question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alla wrote: > > Birthday elf did not ask me to post this, but I am posting this anyways. Yes, she is extremely busy in RL right now. > > Happy 4th of July to american list members :) > Carol responds: Thanks, Alla. I thought that might be the case. Carol, joining Alla in her wishes for a happy Fourth of July to all Americans and noting that celebrating independence from the British doesn't mean that we don't love our British friends and allies! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 19:32:06 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:32:06 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike wrote: > How would y'all translate a triple negative? > > I recently overheard a woman on a cell phone telling someone: > "I ain't never not told him ..." > So, did she tell him or not? > > This was "up north" PC. ;-) > Carol responds: Well, *logically* (or mathematically), three negatives (or any odd number of negatives) result in a negative, just as two negatives (or any even number of negatives) result in a positive (-1 x 1 = -1; -1 x -1 = 1; -1 x -1 x -1 = -1). Correcting the "ain't" to standard English, we have, "I haven't never not told him," which is the opposite of "I haven't ever not told him" or "I have never not told him," both of which, logically, would mean "I have told him." So her sentence, whatever her intended meaning, means, logically, "I have never told him." Carol, who thinks that Mike's experience nicely illustrates the rationale for banning multiple negatives--they can often result in confusion for the listener From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 19:42:35 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:42:35 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > > English isn't logical. After all, a fat chance and a slim chance are the same thing. Carol responds: True, English isn't logical, but the attempt to make it logical at least makes sense. We can eliminate at least some of the obstacles for non-native speakers, for example. Idiomatic expressions like the ones you've cited are a bit different from rules of grammar (or the elements of standard usage). "Fat chance," of course, is used ironically, whereas "slim chance" is straightforward. How about "same difference," which is absurd, if you think about it? I'm trying to think of another expression that I first heard when I was about twelve years old. I recall that it grated on my nerves because, taken literally, it meant the opposite of the intended meaning. Carol, hoping that the expression she has in mind will emerge from the depths of her unconscious or that someone else will come up with it From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 20:06:47 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:06:47 -0000 Subject: Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > 'Scuse me. I need to borra some fatback from a neighbor so we all can have some chitlins and punkin' pah. ... > > > > Carol, who felt throughout her year in NC that she had somehow stepped inside the pages of "to Kill a Mockingbird" > > > > bboyminn: > > 'punkin pah'???? Don't you mean 'Sweet Pertater Pah'? > > Just curious. Carol responds: Nope. I never encountered sweet potato pie in North Carolina. Actually, I never encountered pumpkin pie, either, except as an expression. I remember a radio broadcast (why I was listening to gospel music at the time, I have no idea) ending with "Ya'll is jis' as sweet as a punkin' pah." Of course, pumpkin pie is a traditional Thanksgiving and Christmas treat even in Arizona, but the expression was memorable. I can still hear the accent as I remember the words. I also remember being served squirrel and dumplings when my then-husband and I visited an Air Force friend of his in Virginia (his wife saved March snow water as a cure for warts and they both believed that putting a toy truck or a doll under the bed would determine the sex of the child they were conceiving). Carol, now remembering our drive through the Appalachians (or was it the Alleghenies?) with nothing to listen to on the radio but the "Obituary of the Air column" (someone reading obituaries from the local paper) From n2fgc at arrl.net Sat Jul 5 08:28:27 2008 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 04:28:27 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dialects & Accents (Was Re: Subject-Verb agreement with compound subjects) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D264A36DD2F435791AACE0D047F15AF@FRODO> | --- "Carol" wrote: | > 'Scuse me. I need to borra some fatback from a neighbor so we | > all can have some chitlins and punkin' pah. ... | > | > Carol, who felt throughout her year in NC that she had | > somehow stepped inside the pages of "to Kill a Mockingbird" | > | | bboyminn: | | 'punkin pah'???? Don't you mean 'Sweet Pertater Pah'? [Lee]: No, No, No! That's "sweet tater pah, hun." :-) Smahls, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From s_ings at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 13:50:44 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 06:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <725941.55071.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Alla wrote: > > > > Birthday elf did not ask me to post this, but I am > posting this > anyways. Yes, she is extremely busy in RL right now. > > > > Happy 4th of July to american list members :) > > > Carol responds: > > Thanks, Alla. I thought that might be the case. > > Carol, joining Alla in her wishes for a happy Fourth of > July to all > Americans and noting that celebrating independence from the > British > doesn't mean that we don't love our British friends > and allies! Sheryll (aka the absent Birthday Elf): Yes, Alla is correct, busy is indeed my excuse for neglecting birthdays. Some of you know that I was working on the HP event Convention Alley 2008 that took place a couple weeks ago. That was a major part of my absence from the list. That and a very busy and erratic work schedule. That said, Convention Alley is over and I have a bit more time on my hands, so I see no reason why I can't resume birthday greetings. My apologies to everyone who went without a greeting - which includes my best friend! Will pick up with a huge party for those who've already celebrated in July! Just give me a moment to find the decorations. :) Oh, and Carol, I have a copy of a presentation to send you! It's on my list of 'things to do'. Sheryll __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From s_ings at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 14:32:21 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:32:21 -0000 Subject: Some belated birthdays! Message-ID: *scurries around the room, mumbling to herself, overturning furniture in a search for the boxes of decorations* I know they're here somewhere. I mean, really, it's not like anyone has used them in ages... no, not there... hmm... no, not under that, either... A-ha! Okay, who's the wiseguy that stuffed the decorations in the refrigerator?! I mean, really, just because I was lax in my duties doesn't mean you can mess the stuff. *puts on mittens and hangs frozen streamers* I think we're going to have to pass on the balloons for this party. :D We are gather here today to unite... Oh, wrong speech! What we're here to do today is have a gigantic, humungous, loud, rowdy party in celebration of all the birthdays missed while I was off being a bad Birthday Elf and neglecting everyone. So help yourself to something from the open bar, tuck into the nibblies and crank up the music. *helps herself to a smoking glass of something bright pink from the bar* Among the most recent birthdays missed were Poppy on June 28th, Amanda (HPFGU's first list geist and my bestest friend) on July 2nd, Debbie (one of our hardworking List Elves) and Rebecca on the 3rd. Belated birthday wishes can be sent care of this list - just come on in and join the party. Offlist birthday owls can be sent to Poppy at: jenn at phynn-phamily.us, to Amanda at: editor at texas.net, Debbie at: elfundeb at comcast.net and Rebecca at: GypseeLynn at yahoo.com Okay, folks, there's cake and goodies on the table, and ever- replenishing bar and a whole weekend ahead of us... let's PARTY! Sheryll the Birthday Elf, who didn't get a party last month either From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jul 5 19:29:14 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 19:29:14 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage Message-ID: Carol wrote in : << so they'll come up with solecisms, such as "May I help who's next?" (where did that miserable phrase come from and how did it spread so quickly?) >> I can't recall having heard that phrase before, but it doesn't seem particularly miserable to me. It sounds more friendly than "Next in line!". Carol wrote in : << there's Southern food that doesn't even exist in other regions, such as grits and "chitlins." >> "Chitlins" is a very historical English food named "chitterlings". Considering such famous English pronunciations as Wooster for Worcestershire and Bedlam for (St Mary of) Bethlehem, I supposed chitterlings was pronounced 'chitlins' for hundreds of years before the spelling changed. Potioncat wrote in : << My grandparents were tennant farmers prior to WWII, but I don't know the difference between that and share croppers. >> As far as I know, share croppers are a subset of tenant farmers, who pay their rent as a fraction of the crop rather than in money. Carol wrote in : << I'm trying to think of another expression that I first heard when I was about twelve years old. I recall that it grated on my nerves because, taken literally, it meant the opposite of the intended meaning. >> "I could care less." That phrase still irritates me, altho' not as much as people saying 'flaunt' when they mean 'flout'. It's gotten to the point where I was noticeably surprised last Tuesday to hear a radio reporter correctly say 'flout' on a newscast. From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Sun Jul 6 03:33:11 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:33:11 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Catlady: > Considering such famous English pronunciations as Wooster for > Worcestershire Goddlefrood: Just a minor point the city of Worcester is pronounced as you say, whereas the county of Worcestershire has that extra shire, pronounced shuh by many, Geoff notwithstanding ;-). From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Sun Jul 6 03:36:46 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:36:46 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Catlady: > > Considering such famous English pronunciations as Wooster for > > Worcestershire > Goddlefrood: > Just a minor point the city of Worcester is pronounced as you > say, whereas the county of Worcestershire has that extra shire, > pronounced shuh by many, Geoff notwithstanding ;-). Once more: Missed a dash, apologies. Here it is - Goddlefrood From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 6 08:10:52 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:10:52 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: Carol: << there's Southern food that doesn't even exist in other regions, > such as grits and "chitlins." >> Catlady: > "Chitlins" is a very historical English food named "chitterlings". > Considering such famous English pronunciations as Wooster for > Worcestershire and Bedlam for (St Mary of) Bethlehem, I supposed > chitterlings was pronounced 'chitlins' for hundreds of years before > the spelling changed. Geoff: Your phonetic representation of the pronunciation of Worcester isn't quite right. "Wusster" would be nearer the mark. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 6 08:16:05 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:16:05 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > > Catlady: > > > Considering such famous English pronunciations as Wooster for > > Worcestershire > > Goddlefrood: > > Just a minor point the city of Worcester is pronounced as you > say, whereas the county of Worcestershire has that extra shire, > pronounced shuh by many, Geoff notwithstanding ;-). Geoff: I wouldn't disagree on the ending although I might write it as "sheh". It's very common... For example: Wusster-sheh, Oxfedd-sheh, Warrick-sheh, Lesster-sheh (for Worcestershire, Oxfordshire, Warwickshire and Leicestershire in case you are with the baffled). From n2fgc at arrl.net Sun Jul 6 16:49:22 2008 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:49:22 -0400 Subject: An Idea For The Birthday Elf Message-ID: Hmm--that RL stuff...we all know it too well, don't we? Perhaps, to give our beloved Birthday Elf a break and yet still be sure of a whopper of a party, perhaps a scheduled monthly B-Day Bash with a list of the list celebs for the month might be more workable? Something to consider. :-) Cheers, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 6 17:40:50 2008 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 6 Jul 2008 17:40:50 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 7/6/2008, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1215366050.9.22410.m57@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday July 6, 2008 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2008 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Sun Jul 6 22:30:10 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:30:10 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > I wouldn't disagree on the ending although I might > write it as "sheh". It's very common... Goddlefrood: Can you clarify which sense of common you are using? Could be this is just a north / south thing. Pronuciation wise it sounds like shuh where I came from ... It's very common up North, Liverpool excepted, where sheh would be a closer approximation From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 6 22:49:58 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:49:58 -0000 Subject: question... In-Reply-To: <725941.55071.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sheryll (aka the absent Birthday Elf): > > Yes, Alla is correct, busy is indeed my excuse for neglecting birthdays. Some of you know that I was working on the HP event Convention Alley 2008 that took place a couple weeks ago. That was a major part of my absence from the list. That and a very busy and erratic work schedule. > > That said, Convention Alley is over and I have a bit more time on my hands, so I see no reason why I can't resume birthday greetings. My apologies to everyone who went without a greeting - which includes my best friend! Will pick up with a huge party for those who've already celebrated in July! Just give me a moment to find the decorations. :) > > Oh, and Carol, I have a copy of a presentation to send you! It's on my list of 'things to do'. > > Sheryll Carol responds: Thanks very much. That will more than make up for the missed birthday greeting! You can send some virtual streamers and trust Snape banners and maybe some lemon meringue pie in lieu of birthday cake along with it if you like. :-) Carol, welcoming Sheryll back and hoping for ice cream as part of the July celebrations (monsoon storms or not, it's hot here in Tucson!) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 6 23:26:52 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:26:52 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > Carol wrote in > : > > << so they'll come up with solecisms, such as "May I help who's next?" > (where did that miserable phrase come from and how did it spread so > quickly?) >> > > I can't recall having heard that phrase before, but it doesn't seem > particularly miserable to me. It sounds more friendly than "Next in > line!". Carol responds: If the next person in line can't be readily determined, the expression should be "May I help whoever is next?" ("whoever," meaning "whatever person," is used when the identity is not readily determinable) or "May I help the next person?" "May I help you?" is used when the identity of the next person in line is obvious. "May I help who's next" appears to be a jarring blend of "May I help you?" and "Who's next?" either of which is grammatical by itself, but the second sounds a bit brusque and the first implies that the bank teller or whoever can readily determine the identity of the next person. At any rate, I first started hearing "May I help who's next?" about ten years ago" and now I hear it almost every time I stand in a line ("queue" to our British friends), whether I'm buying a movie ticket or Kentucky Fried Chicken or even depositing a check (if, for some reason, I'm not using the ATM). I'm expecting to hear it when I check my luggage at the airport for a quick trip to San Diego on the tenth. Of course, if the airline clerks are harried, I may just hear a brisk "Next!" or "Next, please!" I almost hope they are because "May I help who's next?" grates on my ears and is spreading all too rapidly as it is. > Carol wrote in > : > > << I'm trying to think of another expression that I first heard when I was about twelve years old. I recall that it grated on my nerves because, taken literally, it meant the opposite of the intended meaning. >> > Catlady: > "I could care less." That phrase still irritates me, Carol responds: Yes! That's the very one. If you could care less, then what are you complaining about? It should be, "I *couldn't* care less." Carol, thanking Catlady for the etymology lesson on "chitlins"/"chitterlings," which sound revolting regardless of the spelling From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 6 23:40:50 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:40:50 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Catlady: > > "Considering such famous English pronunciations as Wooster for Worcestershire and Bedlam for (St Mary of) Bethlehem, I supposed chitterlings was pronounced 'chitlins' for hundreds of years before the spelling changed. > > Geoff: > Your phonetic representation of the pronunciation of Worcester isn't quite right. > > "Wusster" would be nearer the mark. Carol responds: Then, again, "oo" can be long, as in "too," or short, as in "wood." I took Catlady's pronunciation to indicate the short "oo" of "wood." At any rate, that's how I pronounce it. Your "Wusster" I take to rhyme with "buster" or "fluster," neither of which rhymes with Worcester if I'm correct. I think the problem here is a lack of agreed upon symbols to represent particular sounds. (Some people like the IPA. I hate it, and it can't be reproduced with a standard keyboard in Yahoo to my knowledge.) If you don't know what the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) is, click here http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/ipa/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf or just check the pronunciation symbols used in most standard dictionaries. I'll bet anything that your "Wusster" and Catlady's "Wooster" sound exactly the same. Carol, noting that in American English, "roof" can be pronounced with either sound and wondering whether that's true in England as well From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 04:02:43 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:02:43 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Jen! Message-ID: *straightens the streamers, blows up a bunch of now unfrozen balloons and sweeps the last debris from yesterday's party under the edge of the carpet* ...er... you didn't see that, did you? ;) Hey, you, turn down the music for just a second! I know the party is still going full tilt, but I have another announcement to make and just seconds to make it. Today's birthday honouree is Jen. Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to: Foxydoxy1 at yahoo.com *checks the state of the food tables, replenishes drinks and adds a towering multi-cake to the goodies* There, all set. I hope your day has been magical and filled with fun. Happy Birthday, Jen! Sheryll the Birthday Elf, trying to sneak in under the wire :) From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 04:15:00 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 21:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] An Idea For The Birthday Elf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <276187.80866.qm@web63409.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force) wrote: > > Perhaps, to give our beloved Birthday Elf a break and yet > still be sure of a > whopper of a party, perhaps a scheduled monthly B-Day Bash > with a list of > the list celebs for the month might be more workable? > Something to > consider. :-) > > Cheers, > Sheryll: It's an idea I'll keep in mind. While things are quieter now, I can manage the days. When I go away next month for Terminus, I'll definitely have to do a week-long party to cover everyone who'll celebrate while I'm gone. If RL goes all wonky on me again, I'd definitely consider doing weekly or monthly announcements. Thanks for the idea, Lee! Sheryll __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 04:22:29 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 21:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: question.../ice cream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <722365.57280.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Sheryll (aka the absent Birthday Elf): > > > > > Oh, and Carol, I have a copy of a presentation to send > you! It's on > my list of 'things to do'. > > > > Sheryll > > Carol responds: > > Thanks very much. That will more than make up for the > missed birthday > greeting! You can send some virtual streamers and trust > Snape banners > and maybe some lemon meringue pie in lieu of birthday cake > along with > it if you like. :-) > > Carol, welcoming Sheryll back and hoping for ice cream as > part of the > July celebrations (monsoon storms or not, it's hot here > in Tucson!) > Sheryll: Well, I didn't mention them with the email I sent, but I hope the streamers, banner and pie weren't lost or diverted by Yahoo!Mort. I figured if I said anything about the pie being enclosed it would a sure thing that someone would eat it before it got to you. ;) Funny you should mention ice cream, since I just made batch on Thursday. I'm blessed with ownership of an antique ice cream freezer and have made good use of it in the last couple weeks. Made some peanut butter fudge ice cream while Amanda and her family were here and then a batch of orange ice cream for my father (belated Father's Day gift). Got my hands on a recipe that should duplicate Ben & Jerry's Peanut Butter Tracks fairly well, os that's next on my list. I also found a recipe for Candied Bacon Ice Cream that has me curious and the rest of my family questioning my sanity. Hubby has offered to assist with the making of a batch of Salted Caramel Ice Cream at some point, too. Any particular flavours wanted for our birthday celebrations this summer? Sheryll __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 04:39:19 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 21:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <283392.8403.qm@web63401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > > Carol responds: > > If the next person in line can't be readily determined, > the expression > should be "May I help whoever is next?" > ("whoever," meaning "whatever > person," is used when the identity is not readily > determinable) or > "May I help the next person?" "May I help > you?" is used when the > identity of the next person in line is obvious. > > "May I help who's next" appears to be a > jarring blend of "May I help > you?" and "Who's next?" either of which > is grammatical by itself, but > the second sounds a bit brusque and the first implies that > the bank > teller or whoever can readily determine the identity of the > next person. > > At any rate, I first started hearing "May I help > who's next?" about > ten years ago" and now I hear it almost every time I > stand in a line > ("queue" to our British friends), whether I'm > buying a movie ticket or > Kentucky Fried Chicken or even depositing a check (if, for > some > reason, I'm not using the ATM). I'm expecting to > hear it when I check > my luggage at the airport for a quick trip to San Diego on > the tenth. > Of course, if the airline clerks are harried, I may just > hear a brisk > "Next!" or "Next, please!" I almost > hope they are because "May I help > who's next?" grates on my ears and is spreading > all too rapidly as it is. > Sheryll: As someone who has to call the next person in line up to her cash all time, what I say varies depending on how crowded the store is (how loudly I have to speak), and who the next person in line. Busy nights will have me alternately between "Can I help whoever's next?" and "I can help the next person in line". Quiet days and regular customers make me much more relaxed. More often than not it'll be a single person waiting to check out their movies, in which case I generally just smile and ask, "What are you taking home today?". I've also been known to tell customers that if I don't like their choices I"ll make them put them back and pick new movies. That's reserved for customers I at least every week and whose tastes I know. You know, I was just reminded of my grandmother when typing this. We lived in Labrador for 3 years when I was very young and I picked up quite a bit of the Newfie accent and expressions while I was there. When we left there we spent some time with my mother's parents. My grandmother was born in England and was a stickler for, as my mother says, speaking the Queen's English. I was in the backyard one day and my grandmother came out to ask if I'd like a cookie. Apparently I responded with, "Stay where ya be, I'll come where yer at" with a thick Newfie accent, prompting my grandmother to moan that I'd been able to speak proper English when I'd left there. :D Sheryll, who rarely steers customers wrong in selecting movies and tries to use proper English all the time but has been known to occasionally come out with a 'Laaard tunderin' Jaysus' when provoked ;) __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Jul 7 06:49:40 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 06:49:40 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: Geoff: Just trying to tie up on a few loose ends .. Carol wrote in message 37073: << I'm trying to think of another expression that I first heard when I was about twelve years old. I recall that it grated on my nerves because, taken literally, it meant the opposite of the intended meaning. >> Catlady: > "I could care less." That phrase still irritates me, Carol: Yes! That's the very one. If you could care less, then what are you complaining about? It should be, "I *couldn't* care less." Geoff: Which it is, in UK English. I've never heard Catlady's version over here. ******* Goodlefrood wrote in message 37085: Geoff: > I wouldn't disagree on the ending although I might > write it as "sheh". It's very common... Goddlefrood: Can you clarify which sense of common you are using? Could be this is just a north / south thing. Pronuciation wise it sounds like shuh where I came from ... It's very common up North, Liverpool excepted, where sheh would be a closer approximation Geoff: I think this is more a problem of how you write your version phonetically. To me "shuh" would be akin to the sound of "shove". Having grown up with a North Country accent, then lived in London for 45 years and now being surrounded with West Country accents, I have a fairly wide experience of UK accents and I'd stick to "sheh" ? or possibly "sher" ******* Carol wrote in message 37088: Geoff: > Your phonetic representation of the pronunciation of Worcester isn't quite right. > > "Wusster" would be nearer the mark. Carol: Then, again, "oo" can be long, as in "too," or short, as in "wood." I took Catlady's pronunciation to indicate the short "oo" of "wood." At any rate, that's how I pronounce it. Your "Wusster" I take to rhyme with "buster" or "fluster," neither of which rhymes with Worcester if I'm correct. Geoff: In UK English, they all rhyme. I think the problem with "Wooster" is that many English people would associate this with Bertie Wooster in P.G.Wodehouse's `Jeeves' series of books and that is pronounced Woo-ster, the "Woo" in that case being the same pronunciation as the word used for courting your lady love. From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 21:05:42 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:05:42 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Goddlefrood: > Can you clarify which sense of common you are using? Leaving that in, because it remains unamswered. > Could be this is just a north / south thing. Pronuciation > wise it sounds like shuh where I came from ... It's very > common up North, Liverpool excepted, where sheh would be > a closer approximation > Geoff: > I think this is more a problem of how you write your version > phonetically. To me "shuh" would be akin to the sound of > "shove". Goddlefrood: OK, cast your mind back (and I appreciate it needs casting further back than many ;-)) to how you pronounced the sounds of letters when learning the alphabet. The sound of e is very different from the sound of u, which again is different from the sound of o. I stand by shuh for shire, which is exactly how it sounds to me and the denizens of Cheshire, which accent I retain, albeit adjusted so that Fijians can understand me. Are you really trying to say that you pronounce shove as shuve? > Geoff: > Having grown up with a North Country accent, then lived > in London for 45 years and now being surrounded with West > Country accents, I have a fairly wide experience of UK > accents and I'd stick to "sheh" ? or possibly "sher" Goddlefrood: A brief look at the Godlefrood biography would show a wide, possibly even wider variety of domiciles with England. Briefly: Bristol - until age 8 Cheshire - sporadically until 28 Shropshire - at school Oxford - ditto London - University and after Relatives on father's and mother's sides all from Yorkshire and Northumberland. IOW, I've heard just about every accent you might care to think of, and I have to say that sheh is not how I pronounce it, nor is it how people I've heard pronounce it, excepting the south and Liverpool. Your position remains unchanged and I'm not for turning it, but you fully appreciate with your wide experience that there are differing pronunciations throughout the benighted isles, so here I am stating how I pronounce shire and I leave you to say it how you will. Somerset dropped it years ago, I understand, possibly due to phonetics being argued in the Saracen's head or whereever back in the day. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Jul 7 22:29:03 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:29:03 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: Goddlefrood: > OK, cast your mind back (and I appreciate it needs casting further > back than many ;-)) Geoff: Oi, watch it. Or you might meet a (virtual) bunch of fives..... Goddlefrood: > to how you pronounced the sounds of letters > when learning the alphabet. The sound of e is very different from > the sound of u, which again is different from the sound of o. I > stand by shuh for shire, which is exactly how it sounds to me and > the denizens of Cheshire, which accent I retain, albeit adjusted > so that Fijians can understand me. > > Are you really trying to say that you pronounce shove as shuve? Geoff: I would write it fanatically - er phonetically - as shuv. That ought to make it clearer I hope. Goddlefrood: > A brief look at the Godlefrood biography would show a wide, > possibly even wider variety of domiciles with England. Briefly: > > Bristol - until age 8 > Cheshire - sporadically until 28 > Shropshire - at school > Oxford - ditto > London - University and after > > Relatives on father's and mother's sides all from Yorkshire and > Northumberland. > > IOW, I've heard just about every accent you might care to think > of, and I have to say that sheh is not how I pronounce it, nor is > it how people I've heard pronounce it, excepting the south and > Liverpool. Your position remains unchanged and I'm not for turning > it, but you fully appreciate with your wide experience that there > are differing pronunciations throughout the benighted isles, so > here I am stating how I pronounce shire and I leave you to say > it how you will. Somerset dropped it years ago, I understand, > possibly due to phonetics being argued in the Saracen's head or > whereever back in the day. Geoff: Well, zur, us be zenzible down yur. It be all the coider we as to drink. :-) Seriously, I take your point about a Cheshire accent. Another thing I notice about Cheshire - and possibly Derbyshire accents is the strong emphasis on a final "g" in a word like "walking". As I said before, it's also very difficult to bring home nuances of pronunciation with ordinary letters. Look at the fun we had with Sirius/Serious not so long ago. From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 23:38:49 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:38:49 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > Seriously, I take your point about a Cheshire accent. Another > thing I notice about Cheshire - and possibly Derbyshire accents > is the strong emphasis on a final "g" in a word like "walking". Goddlefrood: That's true, we do pronounce gs prominently. The real oddity is the letter h. In Cheshire we add an extra h to how it's said, thus haitch. > Geoff: > As I said before, it's also very difficult to bring home nuances > of pronunciation with ordinary letters. Goddlefrood: It is, agreed, glad the point is well taken. > Geoff: > Look Goddlefrood: Pronounced Luke in the plains of Cheshire, also we have bukes, brukes and many more. From s_ings at yahoo.com Thu Jul 10 14:24:40 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:24:40 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, mohammedi! Message-ID: *putters around the party room, hanging streamers and blowing up balloons* I know, you're all still recovering from the massive amount of food and drink provided last weekend. You can consider this a lead-in to the party weekend coming up! Today's honouree is mohammedi. Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to: violettaprimrose at hotmail.com *ducks out quickly and returns with trolleys of food, drink and a lovely cake* Okay, I think that's all we need to get started. I hope your day is magical and all your wishes are granted. Happy Birthday, mohammedi! *turns up the music, grabs a fizzy drink and heads for a comfy chair to await the party guests* Sheryll the Birthday Elf From sydenmill at msn.com Thu Jul 10 21:01:03 2008 From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:01:03 -0000 Subject: Curiosity Message-ID: For Steve - bboyminn I've been gone a while and when I come back I see "blue" for you everywhere: "blueminn" and "bluewizard." Hoping the "blue" means the fun interpretation and not the sad one. Adoringly yours, bohcoo From sydenmill at msn.com Thu Jul 10 21:27:09 2008 From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:27:09 -0000 Subject: Him and I Message-ID: Since we have wandered into grammar, I would like everyone's opinion about this example. I was taught that the following is correct: "It did not matter to him and me." However, lately I keep hearing, "It did not matter to him and I," or worse, "It did not matter to he and I," both of which make me cringe. Did the rules change? And, on a related topic, does it seem that in the Harry Potter movies the English actors frequently put verbal emphasis in the wrong places? The only example of this that I can come up with at the moment is from Sorcerer's Stone when Dumbledore is about to eat the Bertie Botts bean and he says that in his youth he came across a "Vomit FLAVORED one and since then have lost my liking FOR them." I think an American actor would have said it thus, "VOMIT flavored one and have lost my LIKING for them." Do English people really put their emphasis on their words so differently from us Americans? Thanks for your opinions bohcoo From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jul 11 00:08:06 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:08:06 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Since we have wandered into grammar, I would like everyone's opinion > about this example. I was taught that the following is correct: "It > did not matter to him and me." However, lately I keep hearing, "It did > not matter to him and I," or worse, "It did not matter to he and I," > both of which make me cringe. Potioncat: I think "him and me" are correct, but I don't remember why. > > bohcoo > And, on a related topic, does it seem that in the Harry Potter movies > the English actors frequently put verbal emphasis in the wrong places? Potioncat: Well, the English actors are playing Brits, so I think they're doing a fine job. Had they been portraying Americans, I'd say they were making mistakes. bohcoo Do English people really put their emphasis on their words > so differently from us Americans? > Potioncat: I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the speech. You may not understand a word of it, but it's pure pleasure. On that note, is Geoff around? My local library has a TV/movie version of "To Serve Them All my Days." Do you know if it's any good? (I'm assuming there's only one version.) From geraldine.stokes at gmail.com Fri Jul 11 00:28:41 2008 From: geraldine.stokes at gmail.com (Chance) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:28:41 -0000 Subject: Two HP/CSI:miami stories Message-ID: I've added 2 new stories to http://chance.popullus.net/csislash/index.html which will intertest Harry Potter fans as well :) They are Harry Potter and the Lost Son - http://chance.popullus.net/csislash/stories/son.html - and Harry Potter Returns Home - http://chance.popullus.net/csislash/stories/harry.html . Thanks :) Michael https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=chance% 2emichael%40gmail%2ecom&item_name=Medical% 20Bills&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=NZ&bn=PP% 2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8 From marion11111 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 11 03:29:02 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 03:29:02 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > Potioncat: > I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the > speech. You may not understand a word of it, but it's pure pleasure. > > > On that note, is Geoff around? My local library has a TV/movie > version of "To Serve Them All my Days." Do you know if it's any good? > > (I'm assuming there's only one version.) > marion11111: I saw this a long time ago on PBS and liked it. I don't remember why, but I think I thought the actor was good-looking and maybe parts of it seemed risque to me. :-) So, there's a recommendation for you! From sydenmill at msn.com Fri Jul 11 04:48:52 2008 From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:48:52 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Potioncat: > I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the > speech. You may not understand a word of it, but it's pure pleasure. bohcoo What a thoughtful suggestion, Potioncat. Thank you. I truly do enjoy listening to British accents - so elegant. However, I had never noticed the differences in the emphasis placed on words within a sentence before the Harry Potter movies and was just curious as to whether it was a British thing or a regional thing. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 11 07:03:40 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:03:40 -0000 Subject: Curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "bohcoo" wrote: > > For Steve - bboyminn > > I've been gone a while and when I come back I see "blue" for > you everywhere: "blueminn" and "bluewizard." Hoping the > "blue" means the fun interpretation and not the sad one. > > Adoringly yours, > bohcoo > bboyminn: No, I just like the color blue. In some other groups I'm known as 'BlueWizard'. If I've been posting in those groups, then come here, I might actually use the wrong signature. If I signed BlueMinn, it was probably because I was confused. My mind half in this group and half in another. So, no, not sad, just like the color blue. Steve/bboyminn From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 11 07:13:47 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:13:47 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "bohcoo" wrote: > > Since we have wandered into grammar, I would like everyone's > opinion about this example. I was taught that the following > is correct: "It did not matter to him and me." However, > lately I keep hearing, "It did not matter to him and I," or > worse, "It did not matter to he and I," both of which make > me cringe. > > Did the rules change? > bboyminn: Well, I vaguely recall that the rule is you say it in the same manner as you would if you were only referring to one person. "It did not matter to him." "It did not matter to me." Compare that to - "It did not matter to he." "It did not matter to I." Or, "He and I went to the store." "He went to the store." "I went to the store." Rather than the obviously wrong but frequently used - "Him and me went to the story." Seems simple enough. Steve/bboyminn From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jul 11 12:28:48 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:28:48 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Potioncat: > > I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the > > speech. You may not understand a word of it, but it's pure pleasure. > > bohcoo > What a thoughtful suggestion, Potioncat. Thank you. I truly do enjoy > listening to British accents - so elegant. However, I had never noticed > the differences in the emphasis placed on words within a sentence > before the Harry Potter movies and was just curious as to whether it > was a British thing or a regional thing. > Potioncat: I hope the "you" in my comment didn't sound like a personal you. One of the British shows I enjoy watching is 'All Things Great and Small' but I don't get to see it very often, for some reason. I miss about half the dialogue and could use captions from time to time. On the other hand, 'As Time Goes By' is perfectly clear. Back to SS/PS..do you think it was several actors or just one? From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com Sat Jul 12 20:12:37 2008 From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:12:37 -0000 Subject: Other Yahoo groups and Dorothy Dunnett Message-ID: I hope the list elves won;t mind me putting this out Apologies if this is breaking any rules For those of you who enjoyed as much as I did the comparison that was made on our other HP site made about Harry Potter and Lymond from Queens Play by Dorothy Dunnett, there are at least 4 Dorothy Dunnett discussion groups on Yahoo If you wish futher information then please email me offline as i belong to them as well as the HP ones Jayne From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jul 12 20:32:32 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:32:32 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "bohcoo" wrote in : > > I truly do enjoy > listening to British accents - so elegant. Whether a British accent is elegant depends on WHICH British accent it is. Cockney isn't SUPPOSED to sound elegant. I don't know the name of the related accent spoken by Londoners who didn't leave school until they were 18 or over, but to me it sounds adorable rather than elegant. Geoff, what is its name? The accent that Americans often mistake for Australian? From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 13 10:44:03 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:44:03 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > > > > > Since we have wandered into grammar, I would like everyone's > opinion > > about this example. I was taught that the following is > correct: "It > > did not matter to him and me." However, lately I keep hearing, "It > did > > not matter to him and I," or worse, "It did not matter to he and > I," > > both of which make me cringe. > > Potioncat: > I think "him and me" are correct, but I don't remember why. Geoff: The way to test it is to say "It did not matter to I" and "It did njot matter to me". Which sounds right? Technically, the second. Because "to" is followed by a dative (or an objective, if you agree with Carol) bohcoo > Do English people really put their emphasis on their words > > so differently from us Americans? Geoff: Don't Americans from different areas use different stress patterns? True also of Brits. A Welshman, for example, emphasises in a differetn way to a Cornishman. Potioncat: > I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the > On that note, is Geoff around? My local library has a TV/movie > version of "To Serve Them All my Days." Do you know if it's any good? TheTV version was released originally around 1980/1 and was pretty good. It finally came out in DVD in 1006. I've got that. From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 13 17:40:59 2008 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 13 Jul 2008 17:40:59 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 7/13/2008, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1215970859.10.69371.m47@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday July 13, 2008 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2008 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jul 13 19:29:25 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:29:25 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > > The TV version was released originally around 1980/1 and was > pretty good. It finally came out in DVD in 1006. I've got that. > 1006, soon after Hogwarts was founded. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Jul 13 20:22:10 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:22:10 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Geoff Bannister" > wrote: > > > > The TV version was released originally around 1980/1 and was > > pretty good. It finally came out in DVD in 1006. I've got that. > > > Catlady noticed: > 1006, soon after Hogwarts was founded. > Potioncat adds: Must be a different version. It appears to have been written/performed by an Hogwarts House-Elf. From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 14 03:03:22 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:03:22 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Geoff Bannister wrote: > > > > > The TV version was released originally around 1980/1 and was > > > pretty good. It finally came out in DVD in 1006. I've got that. > > > > > > > Catlady noticed: > > 1006, soon after Hogwarts was founded. > > > > > Potioncat adds: > Must be a different version. It appears to have been > written/performed by an Hogwarts House-Elf. Mike: What? You've never heard of Druidian Version Drama (DVD)? I knew what Geoff meant. ;-) From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 14 03:32:45 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:32:45 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Catlady: > > "I could care less." That phrase still irritates me, > > Carol responds: > > Yes! That's the very one. If you could care less, then what are you > complaining about? Mike adds: I used to respond to someone using that phrase: "Really? How much less?" Of course, they'd look at me dumbfoundedly, as they didn't understand the faux pas, so they didn't understand the inquiry. Nowadays, I let it grate on me silently, just as I don't respond to "irregardless" anymore. Gawd, that one still bothers me. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Jul 14 09:07:36 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:07:36 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" > wrote: > > > > The TV version was released originally around 1980/1 and was > > pretty good. It finally came out in DVD in 1006. I've got that. > > > > 1006, soon after Hogwarts was founded. Geoff: If I may explain how I managed to place the DVD as part of the Anglo-Saxon's world equipment.... Some of you will know that I am on holiday on the Isles of Scilly and keeping in touch using public computers. I had nearly finished my reply to Potioncat yesterday when I realised that I was down to about a minute of time in which to complete my reply and send it. As a result, I missed the typo on a quick read through. It obviously should have read 2006. The DVD keeps fairly close to the original book and I found it very enjoyable, having waited 25 years for it to come out! From sistermagpie at earthlink.net Mon Jul 14 14:21:08 2008 From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:21:08 -0000 Subject: the ongoing English usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Catlady: > > > "I could care less." That phrase still irritates me, > > > > Carol responds: > > > > Yes! That's the very one. If you could care less, then what are you > > complaining about? > > Mike adds: > I used to respond to someone using that phrase: "Really? How much > less?" Of course, they'd look at me dumbfoundedly, as they didn't > understand the faux pas, so they didn't understand the inquiry. > > Nowadays, I let it grate on me silently, just as I don't respond > to "irregardless" anymore. Gawd, that one still bothers me. Magpie: I'll have to remember that one! I don't know why that phrase bugs me so much too, but it does. I remember somebody trying to explain how they both work equally well. Um...they both say exactly the same thing. I think some people assume that there's supposed to be some sort of implied "as if" in there. Like, "AS IF I could care less about this!" But that's not the way people say it. -m From sydenmill at msn.com Mon Jul 14 19:37:14 2008 From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:37:14 -0000 Subject: Curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > bboyminn: > > No, I just like the color blue. In some other groups I'm > known as 'BlueWizard'. If I've been posting in those groups, > then come here, I might actually use the wrong signature. > > If I signed BlueMinn, it was probably because I was confused. > My mind half in this group and half in another. > > So, no, not sad, just like the color blue. > > Steve/bboyminn Bohcoo: Ah, yes - the *aesthetic* blue. The best one. I am happy to hear that. A couple of years ago you, along with many others, were most kind and supportive to Shaun, who was going through a rough spell. That stayed with me - and I wanted to extend the same to you, if needed. It is amazing to me how small gestures, simple gestures, whether from a friend or stranger, can make such a difference in our lives. bohcoo From sydenmill at msn.com Mon Jul 14 20:04:06 2008 From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:04:06 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > "bohcoo" wrote in > : > > > > I truly do enjoy > > listening to British accents - so elegant. > > Whether a British accent is elegant depends on WHICH British accent it > is. Cockney isn't SUPPOSED to sound elegant. I don't know the name of > the related accent spoken by Londoners who didn't leave school until > they were 18 or over, but to me it sounds adorable rather than > elegant. Geoff, what is its name? The accent that Americans often > mistake for Australian? Bohcoo: Well, hello Rita! Long time... hope all is well with you these days. I thrill to words the same way others do to music, whether the words are written or spoken. True, *elegant* might not be an accurate description of the Cockney accent, but I still find the cadence and word choices interesting. Here in Florida we have "Crackers" whose most distinctive way of speaking is pure poetry of expression. I could listen all day. From the beauty of the language in the old timey movies to the unique grammatical stylings of rappers, all are intriguing to me. I think that was one of the main attractions of the Harry Potter series to me: JKR could describe things in surprisingly few words that somehow gave most of us the same mental picture. That is the magic of words. Verbosely yours, bohcoo :) > From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 15:42:51 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Belated Birthday Greetings! Message-ID: <840429.8143.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com> *scurries about sweeping crumbs under the carpet...* Hey, you didn't see that, did you? *sheepish grin* Okay, so you all partied without me even announcing the birthdays. That's a good thing. But you could at least tidy up just a wee bit, couldn't you? What? That's the Birthday Elf's job?... Okay, you got me there. Missed birthdays were Anne Urbanski on the 12th and Sarah on the 13th. Belated birthday owls (for those who didn't party in my absence) can be sent care of this list or directly to Anne: anneu53714 at yahoo.com and Sarah: haraheart at yahoo.co.uk I hope both of you had marvelous days, filled with good food, good friends and lots of fun! *darts out to bring back nibblies, drinks and a couple of large purple cakes* If you guys are going to keep partying, you need sustenance! Happy Birthday, Anne! Happy Birthday, Sarah! Sheryll the Birthday Elf, who must remember to check the database before going offline for a couple days! __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 20:12:57 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:12:57 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks Message-ID: Doing a little family research here??? What do we know about Andromeda Black-Tonks? I understand that she looks like Bella rather than Narcissa. Read that at Lexicon. What house was she in? Is there any canon for that? I would presume that she was in Slytherin and it wasn???t until she married a Muggle that she was disowned. I would think that she would have been shunned by her family if she had been in Gryffindor, maybe not so much if in Ravenclaw. Sirius was in Gryffindor, I can???t remember at what point he was burned off the map and shunned by his family. Any information?? Any ideas? And as an adult if she had been a Slytherin how would she feel about Slytherins now. Would she still like green as her color? Also what does anyone know about the stars associated with her. I am trying to make a costume of her and don???t know what colors or anything to use. Trying to get some ideas. Especially on what house she was in, and I don???t remember what if anything was in the books about her. Thanks. Tonks_op From n2fgc at arrl.net Wed Jul 16 01:35:30 2008 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:35:30 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63B99EEC1B7648DB8E5E83956A737544@FRODO> Hi there, :-) There's nothing in the books to say which house she was in, but I'm going to posit that she was not in Slytherin. Reason, Sirius liked her and I don't think he liked true Slytherins much because of their--uh--pureblood ideas, etc. Perhaps I can hazard a guess that Andromeda met Ted at Hogwarts; they were probably in the same house. And we are 99.9% sure that Ted would no way have been in Slytherin! Like I say, it's just trying to reason the whole thing out. Hugs, Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 01:56:06 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:56:06 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: <63B99EEC1B7648DB8E5E83956A737544@FRODO> Message-ID: > Lee: > There's nothing in the books to say which house she was in, > but I'm going to posit that she was not in Slytherin. Goddlefrood: You're correct that it is not specifically stated, however it is implicit that she was in Slytherin due to Sirius's statement that he was the first Black not to be in Slytherin. Andromeda was a Black, ergo she was in Slytherin, unless she's younger than Sirius, which is not the case iirc. She looks like Bellatrix, a fact that can be found in the books and not only at the Lexicon, When Harry first sees her his reaction is one of revulsion due to her striking likeness to Bellatrix. It is only when she steps into a little more light that Harry sees that she is not completely like Bella. There's really not a lot to go on in the books regarding Andromeda, excepting she was liked by Sirius and her sisters were Narcissa and Bella. Sirius's name could have been blasted off the family tapestry either when he was sorted into Gryffindor or when he left home. From tonks_op at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 03:39:42 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:39:42 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Goddlefrood: > > You're correct that it is not specifically stated, however it > is implicit that she was in Slytherin due to Sirius's statement > that he was the first Black not to be in Slytherin. Andromeda > was a Black, ergo she was in Slytherin, unless she's younger > than Sirius, which is not the case iirc. Tonks: Thank you so much for remembering that little detail about Sirius. Now the question is for you or anyone listening, how would Andromeda feel about Slytherin house now? Would she still like the color green? She might not carry any Slytherin stuff or wear a snake ring, but do you think that she might like to dress in green or would she be totally turned off by it. Like I said, I am trying to dress like her for the upcoming convention in Chicago. Thanks. Tonks_op From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jul 16 03:47:12 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:47:12 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Goddlefrood: > > You're correct that it is not specifically stated, however it > is implicit that she was in Slytherin due to Sirius's statement > that he was the first Black not to be in Slytherin. Andromeda > was a Black, ergo she was in Slytherin, unless she's younger > than Sirius, which is not the case iirc. Potioncat: Yes, in DH young Sirius says, "My whole family have been in Slytherin." So I'd have to agree with Goddlefrood. I don't think Andromeda has been blasted off the tapestry at this point, and Sirius would be including her in his family. Later Draco will make a similar comment. But I doubt if he knows about his cousin Tonks who was in Hufflepuff. Or if he did know, he didn't consider her to be his family. Would Andromeda like green? Maybe, but I don't think the adult wizards and witches wear house colors like they did at school. McGonagall frequently wears green robes and sometimes tartan. From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 04:27:51 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:27:51 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks: > Now the question is for you or anyone listening, how would > Andromeda feel about Slytherin house now? Would she still > like the color green? Goddlefrood: I think, based on other character's views of Slytherin - thinking particularly of Phineas Nigellus and Slughorn - that she wouldn't be averse to her old house. The characters in canon have a quite different view of Slytherins from those in the HPfGU lists. When Andromeda is compared to Bellatrix, as far as I remember, her dress style was similar to her sister, so some kind of silky black or rich purple number would probably be in order. A little green trimming or maybe even a satin kind of lining would offset it perfectly. A report on the event in due course would be a little fum too. Perhaps with a photo or two for the photo section? From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 04:54:23 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:54:23 -0000 Subject: Curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > bboyminn: > > No, I just like the color blue. In some other groups I'm known as 'BlueWizard'. If I've been posting in those groups, then come here, I might actually use the wrong signature. > > If I signed BlueMinn, it was probably because I was confused. My mind half in this group and half in another. > > So, no, not sad, just like the color blue. > > Steve/bboyminn > Carol: And here I thought "bluewizard" was a reference to the mysterious duo of Blue Wizards mentioned in the Appendices to LOTR. Carol, who also likes the color blue, especially blue eyes From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 04:58:09 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:58:09 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -"bohcoo" wrote: > > Since we have wandered into grammar, I would like everyone's opinion > about this example. I was taught that the following is correct: "It > did not matter to him and me." However, lately I keep hearing, "It did > not matter to him and I," or worse, "It did not matter to he and I," > both of which make me cringe. > > Did the rules change? Carol responds: Nope. The rules haven't changed. "To him and me" is correct; objective case for the objects of the preposition. (See our recent discussion of the objective case.) Carol, who thinks that "to him and I" is even worse than "to he and I" because it mixes objective with subjective/nominative case From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 05:05:00 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:05:00 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bohcoo" wrote: > > > Potioncat: > > I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the > > speech. You may not understand a word of it, but it's pure pleasure. > > bohcoo wrote: > What a thoughtful suggestion, Potioncat. Thank you. I truly do enjoy listening to British accents - so elegant. However, I had never noticed the differences in the emphasis placed on words within a sentence before the Harry Potter movies and was just curious as to whether it was a British thing or a regional thing. > Carol responds: I've noticed the same thing, especially in the earlier films. For example, Rupert Grint (Ron) says in SS/PS, "*She* needs to get her priorities straight," whereas I would say, "She needs to get her *priorities* straight." I seem to recall similar instances from other actors, but that one always sounds wrong to me, an indication that the actor is an amateur (and, of course, a child). Rupert has improved considerably since then. Carol, glad to know that someone besides me has noticed the odd emphases! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 05:11:53 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:11:53 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn: > > Well, I vaguely recall that the rule is you say it in the same manner as you would if you were only referring to one person. > > "It did not matter to him." > > "It did not matter to me." > > Compare that to - > > "It did not matter to he." > > "It did not matter to I." > > Or, > > "He and I went to the store." > > "He went to the store." > > "I went to the store." > > Rather than the obviously wrong but frequently used - > > "Him and me went to the story." > > Seems simple enough. > > Steve/bboyminn > Carol responds: Not exactly a rule, Steve, but certainly a good test of correctness. In fact, it's one I used to recommend to my students and still recommend to my editing clients. Again, we're back to case: subjective (or nominative) case for subjects and objective case for objects. All that's needed is to recognize the subject of a sentence or clause and the object of a preposition (or a direct or indirect object) when you see it and supply the correct case--and, while we're at it, the verb agrees with the subject and not the nearest noun. Carol, noting that the object of a preposition can never be the subject of a sentence From zanooda2 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 05:33:40 2008 From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:33:40 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > Thank you so much for remembering that little detail about Sirius. zanooda: Not only Sirius, but also Slughorn said to Harry in HBP: "The whole Black family had been in my house, but Sirius ended up in Gryffindor". > Tonks wrote: > Now the question is for you or anyone listening, how > would Andromeda feel about Slytherin house now? Would she > still like the color green? zanooda: Wizards don't seem to be prejudiced against the green color - for instance, Molly bought green dress robes for Harry in GoF, just because she thought they would go well with his green eyes. I think Andromeda would wear any color that suits her. What colors are suitable for her I don't know - she has light brown hair, but her eyes are probably still dark, like Bellatrix's. So choose whatever color you believe will go well with that :-). Or just choose something that will go well with *your* eyes :-)! There is one more thing - Tonks hints in OotP that Andromeda is very good at household spells (which is fortunate, considering that her daughter always drops and spills stuff, and her husband is "a right old slob" :-)). If this is true, you can think of Andromeda as of one of those women who also love crafts - sewing, knitting, embroidery and other things like that, and you can show some of this home-made stuff in your costume. This is of course a pure speculation - Molly Weasley, for example, is good at household spells, but she doesn't seem to be good at sewing :-). Besides, your costume is probably home-made anyway, so it is really not much of an advice :-). I just thought we know so little about Andromeda, that maybe we need a little imagination to add some details to her character :-). And BTW, Ted Tonks was not a Muggle, but a Muggle-born wizard. I believe he was in Hufflepuff, and Tonks took after him. I wonder what was his occupation. We know almost nothing about his abilities, except that he can heal people. He *would* need a job though, because Andromeda was probably disinherited by her parents. I think they lived rather modestly, so your costume must not look too rich :-)! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 05:37:05 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:37:05 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks wrote: > > Doing a little family research here??? What do we know about Andromeda Black-Tonks? > Also what does anyone know about the stars associated with her. I am > trying to make a costume of her and don???t know what colors or anything > to use. Trying to get some ideas. Especially on what house she was in, > and I don???t remember what if anything was in the books about her. Carol responds: Just to add a bit to what others have said, you can get an idea of what Andromeda is like from "Fallen Warrior," the only chapter in which she actually appears. Her daughter says in OoP that it was Andromeda who chose her name, Nymphadora (literally, gift of the nymphs). She also says that her mother is good at "householdy" spells and can fold socks with a flick of her wand, yet her husband, Tonks's father, is "a right old slob." Andromeda seems to have lived with Tonks and Lupin while her husband was on the run from the Snatchers and continued to do so after Ted was killed and Teddy was born. Tonks left Teddy with her when she followed Lupin to the Battle of Hogwarts. Apparently, she raised the orphaned Teddy, who seems to have turned out just fine. Also, she was Sirius's favorite relative, which may have been mentioned already. That's all I can think of that hasn't been said, but she seems to be the closest thing we have to "the good Slytherin," as far as it goes. I like her, anyway. BTW, she's young for a grandmother, about forty-one at the end of DH. (IIRC, the Black Family Tree says that Narcissa was born in 1959 and Bellatrix in 1955. Andromeda would be somewhere between them, possibly 1957, which would make her just three years older than Snape, Lily, and MWPP.) Carol, who has no idea whether Andromeda would still like green but doubts that she's fond of snakes these days From sydenmill at msn.com Wed Jul 16 21:44:37 2008 From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:44:37 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (Big snip) > Carol, glad to know that someone besides me has noticed the odd emphases! Bohcoo: Thank you, Carol - it wasn't just me then! And thanks as well to you - and Geoff and Steve and Rita for all your input on the *him and I* question. I have heard the misused *him and I* so much that I was starting to wonder if I had missed some change somewhere. I must say, too, how nice it is to sign in and find so many of the folks I have come to be so fond of still here in OT Chatter. You guys feel like old friends. Thanks. Bohcoo, probably now happily back to lurking From zanooda2 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 23:18:18 2008 From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:18:18 -0000 Subject: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > Apparently, she raised the orphaned > Teddy, who seems to have turned out just fine. zanooda: Yeah, the best thing for someone dressed as Andromeda would be to go to the convention together with some kid dressed as Teddy Lupin (which would involve wearing a turquoise wig :-). Everyone would know at once who those two are :-). From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 09:01:01 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:01:01 -0000 Subject: Convention fun. /was Re: Need Information about Andromeda Black-Tonks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have to tell you something funny that happened at Portus. I except worse if I go as Andromeda. I was in the elevator with 2 others strange witches and one witch says to me.. "what house are you?", and before I answered I said "why, are you a Slytherin?" She said "no, I am Hufflepuff".. "oh, OK, I am Gryffindor"... and just then the elevator door opened and she wipped out her wand running out the door shouting "well then you are fair game!" and showed her death eater mark on her arm... as she AKed me and missed.. Oh... those Slytherins are everywere!! That was really funny. Tonks From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Thu Jul 17 09:43:06 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:43:06 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bohcoo" wrote: > > > > > Potioncat: > > > I'd suggest renting some British movies or TV shows and enjoy the > > > speech. You may not understand a word of it, but it's pure pleasure. > > > > bohcoo wrote: > > What a thoughtful suggestion, Potioncat. Thank you. I truly do enjoy > listening to British accents - so elegant. However, I had never > noticed the differences in the emphasis placed on words within a > sentence before the Harry Potter movies and was just curious as to > whether it was a British thing or a regional thing. > > > Carol responds: > > I've noticed the same thing, especially in the earlier films. For > example, Rupert Grint (Ron) says in SS/PS, "*She* needs to get her > priorities straight," whereas I would say, "She needs to get her > *priorities* straight." I seem to recall similar instances from other > actors, but that one always sounds wrong to me, an indication that the > actor is an amateur (and, of course, a child). Rupert has improved > considerably since then. > > Carol, glad to know that someone besides me has noticed the odd emphases! Geoff: I think this is a question of what you are trying to emphasise. The way Ron is saying it is that it is Hermione who needs to get her priorities right - and no one else. Your emphasis would be that Hermione needs to get her priorities right - not her plans for dinner... if you see what I am getting at. As a further example, some of us in the church I attend have a joke to while away the time. It is to take a sentence and say it several times, each time emphassing a different word which can completely change the drift of what we are saying. One of our favourites is "This is a very serious occasion". Try saying this as I emphaisise it and see what difference it makes: *This* is a very serious occasion. This *is* a very serious occasion This is a *very* serious occasion This is a very *serious* occasion Each one carries a slightly different nuance. So to imply that there is only one way of emphasising a sentence is not correct - at least in UK English. Geoff Who is *still* writing from a public computer in the Isles of Scilly. :-) From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 19 02:34:32 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:34:32 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol Message-ID: I've been to "back to school sales" and came across a big bag of A- shirts on sale. So, I got to wondering, did you ever hear from the romance writer about her male lead and his black beater? Potioncat From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 04:41:39 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:41:39 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > I've been to "back to school sales" and came across a big bag of A- > shirts on sale. So, I got to wondering, did you ever hear from the > romance writer about her male lead and his black beater? > > Potioncat > Tonks... intercepting strange message meant for Carol. Wonder what an A shirt is and beater for Carol. ??? Hummmm..... Tonks_op From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 19 04:51:54 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:51:54 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks... intercepting strange message meant for Carol. Wonder what an > A shirt is and beater for Carol. ??? Hummmm..... > > Tonks_op Potioncat: Didn't you get the memo? The only approved dress code while posting to HPfGU sites is blue jeans and beaters? Oops. I mean A-Shirts. ;-) From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 05:01:17 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:01:17 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? Message-ID: This is going to be as OT as anything can be... unless you consider a possible invasion by Death Eaters... I know that the government has told home-builder that they should put a 'safe room' in the basement of every new home they build. I expect that this has not been well publicized so as not to alarm the public. As I understand it is is for a "high wind event". But it sounds like a fall-out shelter to me. Here is what I want to know from some of your really smart folks out there. Or maybe a boy or girl scout or two. Or a shaman if any are here. Maybe a scientist? I was thinking about what one would keep in such a place if I was ever able to have one. I live on the second floor of an apartment building so I hope the bombs don't start falling any too soon. But if I ever was able to afford to build a house.. maybe I have too much time on my hands here.. just musing tonight.. I know that the Mormons keep a years supply of food and water on hand as part of their way of living. That sounds like a smart idea.. but I probably will never do that.. but maybe 3 months would be rational. I do that anyway in the fall since you never know when we might be snowed in and I don't like to have to carry a lot of cans in the snow and ice. But this is what I am wondering... I think those rooms have some sort of air filtration system. I only know one person who has one, but I have never seen it. He loves to tell people about it, it is up off the basement floor in case of flooding and it has a vault like door he says. What I wonder is how would you keep enough air in there for say 60 days or longer. If you did not have a filtration system or if did not work. Is this a biosphere or something that I am thinking about? I don't understand these things. But if you had enough food and water, how in a small space of say 14x14 with 2 to 4 people would you be able to supply enough oxygen for everyone??? What do you think folks?? What steps would you take to maintain life if we were attacked and the government were not able to care for us and we had to fend for ourselves.. what should we do?? Tonks_op From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 05:09:48 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:09:48 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Potioncat: > Didn't you get the memo? The only approved dress code while posting to > HPfGU sites is blue jeans and beaters? Oops. I mean A-Shirts. > ;-) > Tonks: No.. I have been out.. did not get the memo. Beaters as in old clothes?? What is an A shirt?? I am usually in my nighty. From tfaucette6387 at charter.net Sat Jul 19 05:34:33 2008 From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:34:33 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks wrote: > > This is going to be as OT as anything can be... unless you consider > a possible invasion by Death Eaters... > > I know that the government has told home-builder that they should > put a 'safe room' in the basement of every new home they build. I > expect that this has not been well publicized so as not to alarm the > public. As I understand it is is for a "high wind event". Huge snip > Tonks_op > Anne Squires When you say "the government" whose government do you mean? Do you mean the US Federal government? The government of some other nation? Also, can you link to somewhere to back up your claims that this "government" has in fact done this. Not that I don't believe you; but... Also, the government "has told.... that they should..." Just how forceful is this requirement? "Told" vs. "should." You see, if someone tells me to do something I feel like I have to, if they have that authority. If they say I "should" do something I feel it is optional. Very curious about this. Anne Squuires From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 06:07:38 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:07:38 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Anne Squires > > When you say "the government" whose government do you mean? Do you mean the US Federal government? The government of some other nation? Also, can you link to somewhere to back up your claims that this "government" has in fact done this. Not that I don't believe you; but... > > Also, the government "has told.... that they should..." Just how > forceful is this requirement? "Told" vs. "should." You see, if > someone tells me to do something I feel like I have to, if they have that authority. If they say I "should" do something I feel it is optional. Tonks: I went to a Real Estate update last fall in late October. The U.S. Federal Government put out a notice to all home builders. I don't have the papers with me here but if I look around I can probably find them. It is a strong 'recomendation' to all home builders, for homeland security and for a 'high wind event'. The man who is the local expert on Real Estate law, etc. is the one who has one himself. It was the newest update at that time that we were suppose to be aware of. I have not been to the one for this year yet. But if I build a house, I will put the room in. If I remember correctly there were specific details as to how it should be built. Any homebuilder in your area would know about it. Tonks_op From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 07:04:43 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:04:43 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > > Anne Squires > > > > When you say "the government" whose government do you mean? Do > you mean the US Federal government? Tonks: It is FEMA. I remember that much, but I can't find it online. I will look around for the information. I remember that there was some discussion that while it was not a law yet that it might be in a year or so. It was a recommendation to all builders for new home construction. From s_ings at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 11:35:44 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Weekend Birthday Party! Message-ID: <331697.92546.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com> *quickly hangs multi-coloured streamers, blows up balloons and plumps up the cushions on the comfy chairs* I know you guys started the party last night, but it really does look better in here if all the decorations are up. :) *brings in the nibblies and drinks* We've got 3 birthdays this weekend. Yesterday was Marita, today is Cristina and tomorrow is Aggie. Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to Marita: maritajan at yahoo.com, Cristina: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com and Aggie: aggie at raggie.freeserve.co.uk I wish all of you a very special birthday weekend that sees all your wishes come true! Oh, wait, nearly forgot! *scurries out and returns juggling 3 towering cakes* There, *now* we're ready to party. :) Happy Birthday, Marita! Happy Birthday, Cristina! Happy Birthday, Aggie! Sheryll the Birthday Elf, heading off to work __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 19 11:50:04 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:50:04 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Tonks" wrote: > > This is going to be as OT as anything can be... unless you consider > a possible invasion by Death Eaters... > > I know that the government has told home-builder that they should > put a 'safe room' in the basement of every new home they build. I > expect that this has not been well publicized so as not to alarm the > public. As I understand it is is for a "high wind event". But it > sounds like a fall-out shelter to me. Here is what I want to know > from some of your really smart folks out there. Or maybe a boy or > girl scout or two. Or a shaman if any are here. Maybe a scientist? Potioncat: Actually, this sounds like someone has distorted a government statement in order to sell new home buyers some extras to their new home. There were/are guidelines for emergency preparedness. Many came out after 9/11. One that I found particularly amusing involved lining a room with plastic and sealing it with duct tape. I recall wondering whether I would perfer to die from whatever I might be breathing or from slow afixiation in an airtight room with 4 other people and no bathroom. (because the room in my house that best met the guidelines does not have a toilet.) I don't know "who" had put out that advice, but it sold a lot of duct tape and plastic before the papers retracted it. There were some other ideas as well. Some were pretty close to "have a code word in case your loved one is being impersonated by a polyjuiced wizard." Since then, several booklets have come out with advice on what sort of supplies one should have on hand, what sort of shelter one should seek, etc. These are for general emergencies, of whatever sort one's imagination could come up with. Yes, the US government has published several. If I have a chance, I'll see what I can find. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 19 13:09:16 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:09:16 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks: > It is FEMA. I remember that much, but I can't find it online. I will > look around for the information. I remember that there was some > discussion that while it was not a law yet that it might be in a year > or so. It was a recommendation to all builders for new home > construction. > Potioncat: Here it is: http://www.fema.gov/areyouready/index.shtm I havent' read throuh it yet. I recall something about having 3 days supply of food and water for each family member. Also something about back packs in case you need to evacuate. At the time my kids were fairly young and I wondered how we'd be able to carry that much gear. Water is heavy! There are some cool wind-up flashlights and radios available now. They don't need batteries. We have a couple. We also have a supply of water. I have a feelig the kids may have eaten the emergency food. It's been a while since I looked. From n2fgc at arrl.net Sat Jul 19 13:28:54 2008 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:28:54 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <157FC9C1114E403ABDDB692DAC52C113@FRODO> [Tonks]: | It is FEMA. I remember that much, but I can't find it online. I will | look around for the information. I remember that there was some | discussion that while it was not a law yet that it might be in a year [Lee]: I doubt they would make such a law. I'm sure there would be a noise made about that. A suggestion, yes; recommendation, yes; law, no. And if such a law *was* made, I would be writing to my congress-person and senator stating that inforcing such a law would be a waste of my tax dollar which should be spent bringing health care to some poor senior who can't afford it. Cheers, Lee Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no Sat Jul 19 22:50:41 2008 From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian_Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:50:41 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Tonks" wrote: > > Potioncat: > > Didn't you get the memo? The only approved dress code > > while posting to HPfGU sites is blue jeans and beaters? > > Oops. I mean A-Shirts. > > ;-) > > Tonks: > > No.. I have been out.. did not get the memo. Beaters as in > old clothes?? What is an A shirt?? I am usually in my > nighty. It's referring to that debate taking place on OTC in April, about what words to use for various types of sleveless shirts. It started in message 36281, in the topic Closets and Wardrobes, where Carol was appalled by the use of the word "wifebeater" for a specific type of shirt. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/36281 Wikipedia, for what it's worth, says A-shirt/athletic shirt is a type of sleeveless shirt that also is known as "wifebeater", "guinea tee", "vest" (the latter in British English), or "semmit" (in Scotland). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeveless_shirt Best regards Christian Stub? who doesn't use A-shirts, wifebeaters, guinea tees, vests or semmits From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 00:17:43 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:17:43 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "potioncat" wrote: > > I've been to "back to school sales" and came across a big bag of A- > shirts on sale. So, I got to wondering, did you ever hear from the > romance writer about her male lead and his black beater? > > Potioncat > Carol responds: She loved my editing of the ms. and accepted most of the edits and suggestions, but she said that some of my comments, including the one about "wifebeaters," made her laugh. I assume that she kept "wifebeater" in. After all, her genre is borderline "chick-lit" and her intended audience is not old fuddy-duddies like me! I also wrote a query letter and synopsis for her, which she's very happy with. She's not confidently submitting them to agents. If she finds a publisher and passes on the good news to me, I'll let you know. Carol, whose current client needs to be informed that Hawaii is not "a few hundred miles off the east coast of the United States"!!! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 00:33:34 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:33:34 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -Carol earlier: She's not confidently submitting them to agents. Carol again: don't you love typos that alter your meaning completely or make nonsense of your post? That should be, "She's *now* submitting them [the query letter and synopsis] to [literary] agents." Or, in some cases, the query letter and first three chapters. (The complete manuscript is only submitted on request.) Carol, who has only twenty pages to go on the first edit of the current manuscript but still has to go through it a second time and then write a critique From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 20 06:33:57 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:33:57 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > > > Tonks... intercepting strange message meant for Carol. Wonder what > an > > A shirt is and beater for Carol. ??? Hummmm..... > > > > Tonks_op > > > Potioncat: > Didn't you get the memo? The only approved dress code while posting to > HPfGU sites is blue jeans and beaters? Oops. I mean A-Shirts. > ;-) Geoff: Oh dear. I spend much of my time reading and posting to the sites in just shorts and no shirt. But I do very frequently go out like that with my dogs. The locals are quite used to it.... From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 20 17:40:58 2008 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 20 Jul 2008 17:40:58 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 7/20/2008, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1216575658.11.94434.m56@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday July 20, 2008 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2008 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jul 20 18:42:30 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:42:30 -0000 Subject: accents / Andromeda T. / Safe rooms Message-ID: Bohcoo wrote in : << Here in Florida we have "Crackers" whose most distinctive way of speaking is pure poetry of expression. I could listen all day. >> I know someone originally from rural north Florida. It has been said of him that in his accent, there is nothing that rhymes with "thing" (thaang), not even "anything" (annythaang) rhymes with "thing" (thaang). It's a gorgeous accent. Tonks_op wrote in : << how would Andromeda feel about Slytherin house now? Would she still like the color green? >> Others have already mentioned that the adults don't seem obsessed with their old House colors (with the possible of exception of Phineas Nigellus's portrait in green and silver dress robes). It seems to me that the canonical Hogwarts students care less about House colors than we do, and only for sporting events do they make a point of wearing their House Colors. At the Yule Ball in GoF, Pansy wrote a pink dress robe and Hermione wore blue (not lavender as in the movie). Tonks_op wrote in : << I know that the government has told home-builder that they should put a 'safe room' in the basement of every new home they build. I expect that this has not been well publicized so as not to alarm the public. As I understand it is is for a "high wind event". But it sounds like a fall-out shelter to me. >> A 'safe room' for a 'high wind event' sounds like a storm cellar to me. A concept I first encountered as a child watching The Wizard of Oz movie. It's not the same kind of 'safe room' as for floods. While I currently live in a 'tsunami danger zone', it's much more important to prepare for earthquakes. I dunno if underground is the best place to put a 'safe room' for earthquakes ... people are killed when they're working underground (e.g. on the electric grid) and the earth moves and buries them. Potioncat wrote in : << One that I found particularly amusing involved lining a room with plastic and sealing it with duct tape. >> While I never had any intention of following that advice, it may not be as silly as everyone thought, because I recall that in Bush I's Gulf War, the Israelis all used plastic and duct tape to prepare air-tight rooms in their homes in case of chemical weapon attack, and it seems to me that the Israelis are usually pretty realistic about those things. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 23:57:27 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:57:27 -0000 Subject: accents / Andromeda T. / Safe rooms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Catlady wrote: > I know someone originally from rural north Florida. It has been said of him that in his accent, there is nothing that rhymes with "thing" (thaang), not even "anything" (annythaang) rhymes with "thing" (thaang). It's a gorgeous accent. > Carol responds: so I suppose that "sing" and "ring" would be "saang" and "raang," resptectively though I'm not quite sure what sound you're representing by "aa." But what about "rang" and "sang"? Any difference in sound between the last words in "I gave her a 'raang'" and "The phone rang"? Or is the whole "ring, rang, rung" (and "sing, sang, sung") distinction lost? Catlady: > > A 'safe room' for a 'high wind event' sounds like a storm cellar to > me. A concept I first encountered as a child watching The Wizard of Oz movie. It's not the same kind of 'safe room' as for floods. Carol responds: "High wind event"? Can't they just say "hurricane or tornado"? In any case, a requirement for storm cellars or fallout shelters or anything of the sort would never catch on in Arizona because the caliche is too hard to dig through. Houses are built on cement slabs. When a "high wind event" (say a microburst) occurs here, all we can do is stay inside and hope that a tree isn't blown over. (A pine tree did fall on and crush my covered parking space a couple of years ago. Lucky I wasn't parked there at the time!) Carol, pretty sure that Grawp's American cousin was responsible for that uprooted tree From miamibarb at comcast.net Mon Jul 21 01:52:04 2008 From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:52:04 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: <157FC9C1114E403ABDDB692DAC52C113@FRODO> Message-ID: I think it's only a recommendation that people have a three-day supply of food and water. What is scarier (than being a law) is that the government doesn't make promises of getting help to us any sooner than three days. Honestly, I don't know how people in small apartments are able to keep a three-day hoard for the entire five or so months that is hurricane season. Storing all that water (a gallon a day per person) is not easy even in a house. Do they expect people to store water under the coffee tables and canned food under chairs for months? This leads to is a last minute *panic* in the stores. Everyone knows that they should have supplies, so everyone who doesn't have a three-day supply (apparently a lot of people) is shopping. It's really scary to witness. Ivogun From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jul 21 02:08:00 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:08:00 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Barbara" wrote: > > > I think it's only a recommendation that people have a three-day supply > of food and water. What is scarier (than being a law) is that the > government doesn't make promises of getting help to us any sooner than > three days. > > Honestly, I don't know how people in small apartments are able to keep > a three-day hoard for the entire five or so months that is hurricane > season. Potioncat: When I lived in California, I looked over the recommendations for preparomg for earthquakes. They even suggested keeping your supplies in a rolling trash can so you could move with it. I'm in Virginia now. Sometimes we'll have summer storms that knock out electricity---often for several days! In that case, it's very good to have water on hand. Because once the emergency is underway, it's hard to find water, batteries, etc. Of course, we get snowed in sometimes too. (doesn't take much, here.) Most people go out at the first weather forecast and buy bread, milk and toilet paper. (No, I don't know why.) I used to rush out for milk, eggs and sugar so we could make snow cream. Several years ago our area was expecting to be hit by the tail end of a hurricane. On a friend's recommendation, I filled the tub with water. My family humored me. The next day the water supply failed completely. All our neighbors were trekking to the creek to haul water in buckets so they could flush the toilets. I was a hero in my house! Potioncat, who thinks she'd better take inventory of her household emergency supplies. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jul 21 02:23:07 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:23:07 -0000 Subject: accents / In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > so I suppose that "sing" and "ring" would be "saang" and "raang," > resptectively though I'm not quite sure what sound you're > representing by "aa." But what about "rang" and "sang"? > > Any difference in sound between the last words in "I gave her a > 'raang'" and "The phone rang"? Or is the whole "ring, rang, rung" (and > "sing, sang, sung") distinction lost? Potioncat: I'm not sure if the rural northern Florida accent and the rural SC accent are exactly the same. I can clearly hear 'rang' for the piece of jewelry worn on the fanger. Seems to me that 'thang' would rhyme with 'rang'. But that could be the difference between the two regions. What I caint git to, is how "He rang the bell" would sound. I thank it would be "He rung the bell." So that rang, as we use it, wouldn't exist. I can still remember a visit back home, and hearing one lady ask another if they were going to ride the elevator, or take the stay- ups. How can anyone teach phonics in a land where the word 'steps' is two syllables? > From leekaiwen at yahoo.com Mon Jul 21 07:53:04 2008 From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (C John Edward Culver) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:53:04 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol: > Rupert Grint (Ron) says in SS/PS, "*She* needs to get her > priorities straight," CJ: I took it as an example of contrastive stress, much along the lines of "HE needs to get a haircut" when a shaggy-hair teen walks by -- HE in particular, more than anyone else, is in need of a good trim. But while American English rhythm and intonation patterns are a special hobby of mine, I haven't attempted any cross-pond comparisons, so I may be presumptuous in assuming British intonation works the same way. Carol earlier: > BTW, logic is the basis of many of the rules of grammar that CJ > finds so objectionable. CJ: Little old me? I LOVE grammar rules. Oh, except that that silly thing that insists on atrocities such as "Neither they nor I am going". Did I object to anything else? Carol: >the speaker sounds, to many people, uneducated or, at the >very least, careless. (Sorry to sound elitist, but many people >do judge others on their educational level, whether we like it or >not. CJ: Elitist, indeed. This certainly tells us a lot about the biases of those "many people", but nothing about the speaker. In any case, saying, "Double negatives make one sound uneducated" (a bias) is not the same as saying "Double negatives are grammatically incorrect" (also a bias, but a different one). Myself, I think saying "Neither they nor I am going" makes one sound uneducated. But that's just me :-) Carol: >the expression should be "May I help whoever is next?" CJ: If we assume grammar rules are descriptive, then "May I help whoever is next?" can't be a rule if nobody ever says it. I presume what you have in mind here is consistency: because this is the way it's said in other cases (e.g., "Give it to whoever's behind you.") then we need to be consistent and do the same here. I can't find your Six Cs post, and I only remember three of them: clarity, conciseness and consistency. This is probably where we differ: I attach a great deal of importance to clarity; language is, after all, a *communication* medium. Consistency and conciseness are largely important only insofar as they affect clarity. They are important in certain settings -- e.g., academia, professional writing, journalism -- because the implied erudition helps establish the credibility and authority of the writer/speaker. But for the vast masses (unwashed or otherwise) they are not in and of themselves a matter of great concern. Whether I say, "He doesn't have any," or "He don't got none." is not an issue of clarity. And the lack of consistency is only important to those who value it. Trying to correct an uptown Chicago teen's "He don't got none" tells us a lot about what the corrector values -- consistency, "standard" English, high education -- but it also presumes the teen values the same things. The first presumption, that non-standard English is a mark of low education, is often unfounded. My own brother, raised in Texas, liberally pepper their speaking with "all y'alls", "fixin' tos" and "ain'ts", yet he has a college degree. The second presumption, that the speaker desires (or should desire) to conform to the standard of the corrector is both paternalistic and inconsiderate. In the case of the Chicago teen, in fact, insisting on "He hasn't got any" does him a disservice in a community where "standard" English carries a strong negative stigma. Ultimately, it's the community that defines the standard. This means, for example, that I don't try to convince my brother that "y'all" is non-standard (which, in Texas, is not at all the case). Nor do I tell a Chicago teen "He don't got nothin'" makes him sound uneducated when, within his linguistic community, it does not. Now, should the teen desire to pursue academics, he must learn the "language" of academia, which includes conformity to "standard" English. But I wouldn't presume to jump his case when, from the comfort of his college dorm room, he calls home and slips back into the English of his youth. CJ, who thinks academia should be slow to impose its own linguistic standards on communities which may well have different priorities. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jul 21 12:39:53 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:39:53 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > Oh dear. > > I spend much of my time reading and posting to the sites in just shorts and > no shirt. But I do very frequently go out like that with my dogs. The locals > are quite used to it.... Potioncat: I suppose that would do for casual Fridays. OK everyone, A-shirts are not required on Fridays. From mwood005 at comcast.net Mon Jul 21 17:02:21 2008 From: mwood005 at comcast.net (melody_wood14) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:02:21 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > "Barbara" wrote: > > > > > > I think it's only a recommendation that people have a three-day > supply > > of food and water. What is scarier (than being a law) is that the > > government doesn't make promises of getting help to us any sooner > than > > three days. > > > > Honestly, I don't know how people in small apartments are able to > keep > > a three-day hoard for the entire five or so months that is hurricane > > season. > > Potioncat: > When I lived in California, I looked over the recommendations for > preparomg for earthquakes. They even suggested keeping your supplies > in a rolling trash can so you could move with it. > > I'm in Virginia now. Sometimes we'll have summer storms that knock > out electricity---often for several days! In that case, it's very > good to have water on hand. Because once the emergency is underway, > it's hard to find water, batteries, etc. Of course, we get snowed in > sometimes too. (doesn't take much, here.) Most people go out at the > first weather forecast and buy bread, milk and toilet paper. (No, I > don't know why.) I used to rush out for milk, eggs and sugar so we > could make snow cream. > > Several years ago our area was expecting to be hit by the tail end of > a hurricane. On a friend's recommendation, I filled the tub with > water. My family humored me. The next day the water supply failed > completely. All our neighbors were trekking to the creek to haul > water in buckets so they could flush the toilets. I was a hero in my > house! > > Potioncat, who thinks she'd better take inventory of her household > emergency supplies. > > melody_wood14 > >After living through hurricane Rita and with Dolly coming into the >Gulf. I thought I'd share some advice. As far as Fema goes it took >them 3 days to arrive and 1 to 2 more days to find a place for the >to set up. Several parking lots that were large enough for them the >owners didn't want the trunks to park in them. And to this day I >still don't know where the food trunks parked. I could only find >the ice and water trunks. They do not bring pet food, baby food,or >formula. So make sure that you have enough on hand. Bug spray was >needed as well. I guess the storm made them very hungry. Freeze a 2 >or 3 litter soda bottle ,after you empty it and rinse it,with water >and put it in you freezer. This will help it stay cooler longer. As >far as water goes if you go to walmart in the camping department >they have 3 kinds of water bottles I have the blue one and a few >collapsible kind. I just fill them when a storm starts to head my >way. I store them and a box of food on top of the freezer so they >are out of the way. Also very important keep your cars full or gas. >When I get down to 2/3 a tank I fill up. That also keeps me from >paying 100 to fill up. Rember no electricity means no gas pumps. Oh >one more thing put your photo albums and photos in a plastic box to >keep them safe I have to many to take with me. Also any items that >you have in your ice box put the in ziploc bags other wise you may >not like the smell latter on. and yes fill you bath tub with water >you will need it latter to flush. Hopes this helps I live in the >hurricane zone so it is all that I know how to prepare for. There is >more to do but these are things people don't think about. Please >don't get me wrong I loved seeing the FEMA truck just don't count on >them they can't be every where at once after a big storm. They are >only human after all. So don't forget to let them know they are >wanted and needed by saying thanks. >Melody_Wood14 From bboyminn at yahoo.com Mon Jul 21 22:23:35 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:23:35 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Message-ID: I stumbled across these articles on Google News UK - -200,000 TV licence evaders caught- "A total of 209,000 people have been caught during the past six months for watching television without a license in the UK." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7517143.stm -City's TV license shame poll rise- "Belfast has moved up to number seven in the TV licensing "league of shame", which shows towns and cities in the UK with the highest rates of evasion." -TV license fees around the world- "The UK is not the only country which has a TV licence fee - about two-thirds of European countries have one, or use an indirect charge to fund their public TV stations." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6241013.stm It seems you are required to pay a ?139 ($279) annual fee for the privilege of watching Television in the UK. And, all that money goes to non-profit 'public' television. Sound more like a tax scam than any actual legitimate need. If we assume a population of 60million and further assume that represents $15million households, we have substantially over ?2 billion in revenue collected. Sorry, but does public television in the UK really need TWO BILLION POUNDS a year? (over US$4 Billion) I think if I were a citizen, I would want to know where that $4 billion was going. How much was administrative cost, and how much was dedicated to actual programming. I mean this is $279 for a few public channels when I can get a few hundred cable channels for $480/yr. Maybe I'm wrong, but that amount, the TV license, seem completely out of balance. Further the idea that if you have a TV, you pay whether you watch or not. Can someone enlighten me? Steve/bboyminn From yahoo at watch.renals.co.uk Mon Jul 21 23:41:26 2008 From: yahoo at watch.renals.co.uk (Olly) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:41:26 +0100 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48851EA6.9060704@watch.renals.co.uk> I think your figures might be a bit off. It is the property with a telly that requires a licence, so it doesn't matter if the property has one or five people you only need one licence. There are approximately 25 million homes in the UK so assuming they all have a licence that equates to 3,475,000,000 per annum. The idea behind TV licensing is to fund an independent media network, and therefore not affected by the requirements of any corporate owners. The other main advantage is that while watching the BBC you can enjoy ad free telly, as the licence pays for their running costs completely. You are also can buy more telly services on top of the "free" channels available via terrestrial or freeview services. Olly Steve wrote: > [SNIP] > > It seems you are required to pay a 139 ($279) annual fee for the > privilege of watching Television in the UK. And, all that money goes > to non-profit 'public' television. > > Sound more like a tax scam than any actual legitimate need. > > If we assume a population of 60million and further assume that > represents $15million households, we have substantially over 2 > billion in revenue collected. > > Sorry, but does public television in the UK really need TWO > BILLION POUNDS a year? (over US$4 Billion) > > I think if I were a citizen, I would want to know where that $4 > billion was going. How much was administrative cost, and how much was > dedicated to actual programming. > > I mean this is $279 for a few public channels when I can get a few > hundred cable channels for $480/yr. Maybe I'm wrong, but that amount, > the TV license, seem completely out of balance. > > Further the idea that if you have a TV, you pay whether you watch or not. > > Can someone enlighten me? > > Steve/bboyminn From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Mon Jul 21 23:48:57 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:48:57 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Steve: > It seems you are required to pay a ?139 ($279) annual fee for > the privilege of watching Television in the UK. And, all that > money goes to non-profit 'public' television. Goddlefrood: It goes to the BBC, which also makes money on other projects. It means there are NO advertisements on the channel. Many in the UK grumble about the licence fee, but it's a small price to pay for what is a quality service (BBC). Or rather was a quality service. There are no doubt sites that show how much revenue is collected and to what use it is put. There has been a licence fee for a very long time. Without it, the TV in the UK would be more useless than it is, and possibly as bad as commercial TV. > Steve: > Sound more like a tax scam than any actual legitimate need. Goddlefrood: You like advertisements interrupting your programming every 10 minutes? The BBC is not strictly a Government institution, thus the licence fee is not a tax. The BBC has to account for the spending of the revenue collected. Look around the net to find such accounts if interested. > Steve: > Sorry, but does public television in the UK really need TWO > BILLION POUNDS a year? (over US$4 Billion) Goddlefrood: It also funds the radio services provided by the BBC. > Steve: > Further the idea that if you have a TV, you pay whether you > watch or not. Goddlefrood: You could always switch it off when the detector vans are around (they have to now tell the local area where they will be when they would be there). The majority of the population has no real problem with the licence fee and needs little indignation from other nations on its behalf. I'll bet you've watched a great many programmes funded by the UK licence payers, so why complain? From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 00:47:13 2008 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:47:13 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > > Steve: > > It seems you are required to pay a ?139 ($279) annual fee for > > the privilege of watching Television in the UK. And, all that > > money goes to non-profit 'public' television. > > Goddlefrood: > > It goes to the BBC, which also makes money on other projects. > It means there are NO advertisements on the channel. Many in > the UK grumble about the licence fee, but it's a small price > to pay for what is a quality service (BBC). Or rather was a > quality service. Alla: I am sorry, that's it? $279 dollars a year ( sorry typing in dollars since I cannot find pound site on my keyboard) is all that is required? Or is it in addition to cable TV fee? But even if it is in addition to cable service, myself I would soooo pay it in order not to see stupid advertisement, honestly. Alla, dreams of no ads on TV. From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 01:57:04 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:57:04 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Steve: > > > It seems you are required to pay a ?139 ($279) annual fee for > > > the privilege of watching Television in the UK. > > > > Goddlefrood: > > It means there are NO advertisements on the channel. Many in > > the UK grumble about the licence fee, but it's a small price > > to pay for what is a quality service (BBC). Or rather was a > > quality service. > > Alla: > I am sorry, that's it? $279 dollars a year ( sorry typing in > dollars since I cannot find pound site on my keyboard) is all > that is required? Goddlefrood: Any cable fee would be in addition to the above. The licence fee entitles one to watch 5 free-to-air channels (three of which are commercial and do not benefit from the licence fee). It's really no big deal to those in the UK, it only seems to upset certain foreigners ;-) To type pounds on your keyboard you'd need to set it to UK style, and then the dollar sign becomes a pound sign :-) From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jul 22 04:17:18 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:17:18 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Goddlefrood: > > Any cable fee would be in addition to the above. The licence fee > entitles one to watch 5 free-to-air channels (three of which are > commercial and do not benefit from the licence fee). It's really > no big deal to those in the UK, it only seems to upset certain > foreigners ;-) Potioncat: I am more than happy that Brits pay a fee for TV since it means that in a few years, I get to see the same shows for free. Well, not really. I have to pay incredible cable fees which still has commercials. And as much as I like PBS--I have to put up with periodic pledge breaks. But I do enjoy the British shows! Kathy From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 06:11:45 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:11:45 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > > > > Steve: > > > > It seems you are required to pay a ?139 ($279) annual fee ... > > > Alla: > > I am sorry, that's it? $279 dollars a year ( sorry typing in > > dollars since I cannot find pound site on my keyboard) is all > > that is required? > > Goddlefrood: > > ... > > To type pounds on your keyboard you'd need to set it to UK style, > and then the dollar sign becomes a pound sign :-) > bboyminn: For your convenience- To type the '?' Pound sign, hold down the ALT key and press 0163 on the numeric keypad. For the EURO '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0128. For the CENT '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0162. For the Japanese Yen '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0165. This has been a FREE Public Service Announcement. Steve/bboyminn From dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 22 08:30:23 2008 From: dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk (Tim Regan) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:30:23 -0000 Subject: Any other HRfGU folk going to Accio 2008? Message-ID: Hi All, I'm getting excited now as the conference starts on Friday. I've got tshirts printed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dumbledad/sets/72157606248267306/ http://tinyurl.com/5tn6rg ) and Fudge feast costume planned. Anyone else going from HPfGU? 'Twould be good to meet-up. Cheers, Dumbledad (Tim) From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 19:02:27 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Happy Birthday, Anne! Message-ID: <524876.63288.qm@web63414.mail.re1.yahoo.com> *quickly hangs streamers, blows up balloons and generally tidies the party room* Yes, indeed, another party today! *runs out and returns pushing trolleys of assorted beverages, nibblies and towering purple cake* Today's birthday honouree is Anne(Silverthorne). Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net I hope your day is magical and filled with fun. Happy Birthday, Anne! *turns up the music and heads off to work* Sheryll the Birthday Elf __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 22 19:56:04 2008 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:56:04 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Goddlefrood: > > Any cable fee would be in addition to the above. The licence fee > entitles one to watch 5 free-to-air channels (three of which are > commercial and do not benefit from the licence fee). It's really > no big deal to those in the UK, it only seems to upset certain > foreigners ;-) Mary Ann: Even better, with a one-off purchase of a Freeview box, or the purchase of a new television set which includes an internal Freeview decoder, UK watchers have digital telly and about 40 telly channels and 30 digital radio stations to hand with only the yearly TV licence fees to be paid. If you're like me and only watch about 8 channels, 5 of which are BBC ones, you hand over your money quite happily to the BBC safe in the knowledge that you can watch decent stuff and not be stuck with gawdawful commercial television. It's just what a Documentary Snob like me needs to be content. Mary Ann, who is ignoring the fact that her kids are watching Police! Camera! Action! on an ITV channel From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 20:48:18 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:18 -0000 Subject: Him and I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: CJ wrote: > I can't find your Six Cs post, and I only remember three of them: clarity, conciseness and consistency. This is probably where we > differ: I attach a great deal of importance to clarity; language is, > after all, a *communication* medium. Consistency and conciseness are > largely important only insofar as they affect clarity. They are > important in certain settings -- e.g., academia, professional writing, > journalism -- because the implied erudition helps establish the > credibility and authority of the writer/speaker. But for the vast > masses (unwashed or otherwise) they are not in and of themselves a > matter of great concern. Whether I say, "He doesn't have any," or "He > don't got none." is not an issue of clarity. And the lack of > consistency is only important to those who value it. Carol responds: First, consistency isn't one of my Six C's, which are Clarity, Conciseness, Concreteness, Coherence, Correctness, and Color, all of which *generally* contribute to effective writing but are guidelines rather than hard-and-fast rules. And, of course, we looked at writing samples that illustrated or failed to illustrate the Six C's so that my students knew what they meant. "Precipitation in the form of rain" fails the conciseness guideline, for example. I generally used actual sentences from my students, some typical and others laugh-out-loud funny, to illustrate the concepts. I still have my collection somewhere. As for consistency, that's a standard I never thought to suggest to my students, but as an editor, I'm expected to impose it on a manuscript. For example, if a writer, discussing the planet Earth (not "earth" as the ground we walk on or "earth" meaning soil) capitalizes "Earth" in some places and not in others, I have to decide whether to capitalize or lowercase the word throughout the manuscript. (It helps to have "the Chicago Manual of Style" aka CMS to provide guidelines for such situations.) Similarly, if the writer spells out some numbers and uses figures for others, I have to make the pattern consistent, following some "rule" or guideline. The social sciences (represented by the American Psychological Association, APA) generally spell out numbers under ten; the humanities (represented by CMS generally spell out numbers below one hundred and large round numbers). I have to be familiar with exceptions to these rules, such as time of day or dates, and format them consistently. So consistency isn't so much a "rule" of good writing as an expectation of the publisher and a courtesy to the reader. I also have to decide whether or not to use serial commas. Normally I do, but in a manuscript that uses British punctuation, I don't. Words and names have to be spelled the same way each time. If a writer refers to World War II two times out of three as "the Second World War" but once as "World War II," I have to decide whether to change "World War II" to match what appears to be the writer's style or to change "the Second World War" to "World War II" because that name is more familiar to most readers. So what I'm looking at is consistency within a given manuscript, as well as consistency with a given publisher's "house style." Footnote or endnote format is another example, but you get the picture by now. CJ: > Trying to correct an uptown Chicago teen's "He don't got none" tells us a lot about what the corrector values -- consistency, "standard" English, high education -- but it also presumes the teen values the same things. The first presumption, that non-standard English is a mark of low education, is often unfounded. My own brother, raised in Texas, liberally pepper their speaking with "all y'alls", "fixin' tos" and "ain'ts", yet he has a college degree. Carol responds: The "uptown teen" needs to know why he's being taught standard English, which is or should be to expand his options so that he's not limited to blue-collar jobs for the rest of his life. (If he doesn't want to go to college or even finish high school, he can always drop out and see where it gets him.) If he's exposed to literature at the same time, he can judge for himself the relative effectiveness of standard English and his own familiar idiom and the uses to which both can be put. (It's rather like exposing English-speaking students to a second language, which will expand their understanding and cultural sensibility even if they never use that language in later life.) As for your brother, I suspect that he restricts his "fixin' to's" and "ain'ts" to conversation, not written work, and that his college essays were written in standard English just as an educated Mexican-American may speak Spanish at home but English at work. The language or idiom used depends on the context. (Try submitting an article peppered with "ain'ts" and "fixin' to's" to a magazine or a scholarly journal and see whether it gets published.) CJ: > The second presumption, that the speaker desires (or should desire) to conform to the standard of the corrector is both paternalistic and inconsiderate. In the case of the Chicago teen, in fact, insisting on "He hasn't got any" does him a disservice in a community where "standard" English carries a strong negative stigma. Carol: As I said, it depends on context. If he can use both standard English and his local dialect, he can speak (or write) whichever is appropriate under the circumstances, giving him an advantage over those who speak only the local dialect, who may have difficulty communicating outside their restricted circle. And the stigma outside that circle will be equally strong if the local dialect is associated with crime, poverty, and gang activity. (I don't know about Chicago, but Detroit has something like a thirty percent high school graduation rate. Education, including standard English, is the way out, the only way out, of that trap.) When I was in England, to change the subject a little, I tried to ask a local Londoner for directions. I couldn't understand a word that he spoke. I said, "I'm sorry. Could you speak a bit more slowly? I'm American, and I'm having trouble understanding you." At that point, he switched to perfect BBC English, enabling him to communicate clearly to another speaker of standard English. Despite a few differences in accent and vocabulary, we understood each other perfectly because standard English provided a shared medium of communication, whereas his "Lunnon" dialect (which might have been Cockney but probably wasn't because I couldn't understand it at all) was only intelligible to Londoners with a similar background. CJ: > Ultimately, it's the community that defines the standard. ,snip> Carol: In the case of standard English, that's a very large community--the entire United States for standard American English and the entire English-speaking world for the features of standard English shared by the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, and all the other members of that community. Without a shared language with a large number of shared conventions (setting aside minor matters of whether "color" is spelled with a "u" or not), that communication would not be possible. You can be Humpty Dumpty and decide that a word means whatever you want it to mean, but you'll have great difficulty in making your intended meaning intelligible to anyone else. *that's* the point of standard English--shared features accepted by and intelligible to a large community and demonstrated most clearly in the written language of published works, which are the primary instrument of standardization. CJ: Now, should the teen desire to pursue academics, he must learn the "language" of academia, which includes conformity to "standard" English. Carol: Exactly. CJ: But I wouldn't presume to jump his case when, from the comfort of his college dorm room, he calls home and slips back into the English of his youth. Carol: Nor would I. I would never presume to take away something so familiar and personal. For that matter, I have the right to call margarine "butter" and tissues "Kleenex" in my own home, however much I may be criticized for doing so on this list or in another public context. But what is appropriate in a domestic setting can't be called *standard* because "standard" implies the usage agreed upon by a large segment of the population. We no longer say "thee" or "thou" because the plurality of the population that determines such things has allowed them to go by the wayside. If my hypothetical neighbor decided to teach her children Shakespearean English and no other language, they might speak beautifully and poetically, but she'd have to home-school them using nothing but the works of Shakespeare and the King James Bible (which is Jacobean English, but close enough) since all the textbooks published in the US and UK today are written in standard modern English. Not to know that variety of English is to be severely restricted and handicapped. OTOH, if the neighbor wanted to teach her children Shakespearean English *in addition to* standard modern English so that her children would enjoy Shakespeare's plays and the King James Bible, I'd say more power to her. BTW, when I was a child, the Episcopal church service used the language of Cranmer's Book of Common Prayer and the King James Bible. I had no difficulty understanding that language or appreciating its beauty, and I'm grateful for the exposure to it, lost to younger generations for whom the church service has been presented in modern English to make it "relevant." The form of English in those books is no longer standard, but that doesn't take away its value. Nor is English that was never standard, such as a local dialect, without value. Often it's just as expressive and at least as colorful as standard English. But we can't impose "Southern" or Chicago street language on the population as a whole. The standard English taught in schools must reflect a wider segment of the population. And that segment is primarily determined by published works, whether those books are best-selling novels or high school textbooks. > CJ, who thinks academia should be slow to impose its own linguistic > standards on communities which may well have different priorities. Carol: Who thinks that you've just shown the case to be otherwise with your hypothetical teenager, who will be disadvantaged if he limits himself to his local dialect instead of learning standard English *in addition to* his native speech patterns, understanding that each is appropriate in particular contexts From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 20:55:09 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:55:09 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > I suppose that would do for casual Fridays. OK everyone, A-shirts are not required on Fridays. > Carol: In Arizona, we don't have casual Fridays because every day is casual day. Hardly any man or woman who's not a lawyer wears a suit. I remember my students commenting among themselves on those rare occasions when I wore a dress (rather than slacks and a sweater or pullover top) to class. Now that I work at home, I sometimes don't change out of my nightie until noon. Or I can wear short shorts and a tank top if I'm so inclined. Carol, who remembers when Friday was "dress-up day" in high school, a very short-lived phenomenon even though girls were still required to wear skirts and boys to cut their hair so that it didn't touch their collar From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 21:24:35 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:24:35 -0000 Subject: A-shirt,/beater for Carol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Geoff: > Oh dear. > > I spend much of my time reading and posting to the sites in just shorts and > no shirt. But I do very frequently go out like that with my dogs. The locals > are quite used to it.... Tonks_op lol. I guess some night we should take a poll as to who is wearing what. As long as you don't breath heavy into the phone and say 'what are you wearing my dear?'. Come to think of it I can't say what I am wearing right now without embarrasing myself. Tonks From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 21:26:11 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:26:11 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn wrote: > > For your convenience- > > To type the '?' Pound sign, hold down the ALT key and press 0163 on the numeric keypad. > > For the EURO '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0128. > > For the CENT '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0162. > > For the Japanese Yen '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0165. > > This has been a FREE Public Service Announcement. Carol responds: Interesting! Just out of curiosity, how did you learn all this and do you keep a list of these codes, or whatever they're called, beside your keyboard? If I needed to type a pound sign, I would probably just cut and paste it from the Internet, like so: ? (I'm seeing if this works!) I tried to do it from Word but couldn't figure out what the Help menu was talking about, not to mention that a link I tried to follow didn't work because some ActiveX control ostensibly wasn't installed properly. (You'd think that the pound and Euro symbols would be included in the Insert menu's symbols section. Maybe they are in Word 2007, but I have Word 2000.) BTW, Yahoo won't let me use your method. I tried to do a cent sign, which would be useful to me as an American, and all I got was a Plink! Plink! Plink! sound warning me that what I was trying to do was either impossible or prohibited. I tried it in Word and got no results at all--no Plink! but nothing on the screen, either. Just wondering what program you're using that will allow these macros or whatever they are. Maybe they're preset on your particular computer? Carol, who has only a vague idea what a macro is and no idea how to set one up From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 21:39:52 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:39:52 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Honestly, I don't know how people in small apartments are able to keep > a three-day hoard for the entire five or so months that is hurricane > season. Storing all that water (a gallon a day per person) is not > easy even in a house. Do they expect people to store water under the > coffee tables and canned food under chairs for months? This leads to > is a last minute *panic* in the stores. Everyone knows that they > should have supplies, so everyone who doesn't have a three-day supply > (apparently a lot of people) is shopping. It's really scary to witness. Tonks: Actually I live in an appartment and I keep a 3 month supply on hand in my pantry. I don't have the water, but do have water bottles that I can fill quickly. I use to keep the water, but it expired and I didn't get more. And I do have the new shower curtain for plastic and duck tape. We have had 3 days without electricy here and I learned the importantance of having a gas water heater. At least you can take a hot shower. No one answered my real question. I was never a girl scout, but I do feel the need to be prepared as I get older and it is not as easy for me to get out and about. SO... I really do want to know how to have a safe room and AIR at the same time. Should I have plants? Is is called a biosphear? If not what is a biosphear? I see that FEMA suggest different things for different areas of the country. But I am not going to depend on the government when the government might be gone in a real war. So.. back to my question.. how can a person, or a person and 3 friends live underground for 6 months and have AIR. Thanks. Tonks_op who has a house plan that I designed with the safe room and a bath, murphy beds and storage room too. But doesn't know how to get clean and safe air.. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 22:18:05 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:18:05 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Carol" wrote: > > bboyminn wrote: > > > > For your convenience- > > > > To type the '?' Pound sign, hold down the ALT key and > > press 0163 on the numeric keypad. > > > > For the EURO '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0128. > > > > For the CENT '?' hold down the ALT key and press 0162. > > > > For the Japanese Yen '?' hold down the ALT key and press > > 0165. > > > > This has been a FREE Public Service Announcement. > > Carol responds: > > Interesting! Just out of curiosity, how did you learn all > this and do you keep a list of these codes, or whatever > they're called, beside your keyboard? > bboyminn: They are the numeric equivalent for the standard ANSI character set. I have a programmer's text editor that has a list of the codes, though long ago I had a list on paper. For example the ANSI code for the letter 'A' is 65, so ALT 0065. Let's see if it works... 'A' ...boom, there it is. The Left single quote mark is 0096 .... ` ...see, it works. > Carol: > > If I needed to type a pound sign, I would probably just > cut and paste it from the Internet, like so: ? (I'm seeing > if this works!) > bboyminn: And...that's easier than ALT 0163. I have a couple of small pieces of paper taped to my monitor that have the ALT codes for characters I frequently need, so it is only from repetition that I remember them at all. I frequently post in various UK groups, usually UK Audio/Stereo/Home Cinema groups. So, I need the Pound sign pretty often, and since much of the discussion involves continental Europe, the EURO sign come up often too. > Carol: > I tried to do it from Word but couldn't figure out what the > Help menu was talking about, .... (You'd think that the > pound and Euro symbols would be included in the Insert menu's > symbols section. Maybe they are in Word 2007, but I have >Word 2000.) > bboyminn: This is more difficult in Word because it depends on the current font or typeface having those symbols, which they might not. Though, you are right, you should at least be able to find the Pound sign in the INSERT list. I've got an old version of Word too. Though, when the Insert List comes up, you have to pick the right font again. It likely comes up with Symbols, but those 'symbols' might not translate directly to the Internet. Also, if your Character Encoding View is set to Unicode instead of Western, even the codes I've entered here won't view right. There are a lot of complicating factors here. > Carol: > > BTW, Yahoo won't let me use your method. ... bboyminn: I always post on-line, in the actual Yahoo Group, and it lets me enter these codes all the time, as this post here clearly attests. Also, I quickly opened MS-Word (ver 2000; 9.0.2720) and had no problem entering ALT 0163 and ALT 0128 to get the British Pound mark and the EURO sign. The only explanation I have is that you must have bad Karma. (Its' a joke) Steve/bboyminn From tonks_op at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 04:13:38 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:13:38 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. Message-ID: OK.. let me try this again. The President and the Congress has secret underground bunkers or something that they go into in the event of an attack on the country. In fact they used them during 9/11. Also submarines manage somehow to go under the sea and stay for a long time before coming back up. I am not a scientific person and I don't understand about oxygen, etc. But I know that we need it and there is a balance between the plants and us. On an smaller scale than the government has, how would a person live underground as far as oxygen is concerned if you had to concerned about poison in the air. And other than food and water, is that all they would need if they had to stay there for 6 months? Maybe I should ask the Slytherins since they spend a lot of time in the dungeons. Tonks_op I may be a bit crazy, but you have to admire my persistence. From mwood005 at comcast.net Wed Jul 23 09:57:52 2008 From: mwood005 at comcast.net (melody_wood14) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:57:52 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > OK.. let me try this again. > > The President and the Congress has secret underground bunkers or > something that they go into in the event of an attack on the country. > In fact they used them during 9/11. Also submarines manage somehow to > go under the sea and stay for a long time before coming back up. I am > not a scientific person and I don't understand about oxygen, etc. But I > know that we need it and there is a balance between the plants and us. > On an smaller scale than the government has, how would a person live > underground as far as oxygen is concerned if you had to concerned about > poison in the air. And other than food and water, is that all they > would need if they had to stay there for 6 months? > > Maybe I should ask the Slytherins since they spend a lot of time in the > dungeons. > > Tonks_op > I may be a bit crazy, but you have to admire my persistence. > >I don't have an answer but do have a question. Did you read The Host >by Stephenie Meyer? Your comment reminds me of the book. Gotta go I >Dolly must be huge because I'm in Houston and can see the lightning >comming. Hope these outer band are not to bad. We just moved here 2 >years ago and have not been it this house during high winds before. >Melody_Wood14 From annemehr at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 12:26:07 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:26:07 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > OK.. let me try this again. > > The President and the Congress has secret underground bunkers or > something that they go into in the event of an attack on the country. > In fact they used them during 9/11. Also submarines manage somehow to > go under the sea and stay for a long time before coming back up. I am > not a scientific person and I don't understand about oxygen, etc. But I > know that we need it and there is a balance between the plants and us. > On an smaller scale than the government has, how would a person live > underground as far as oxygen is concerned if you had to concerned about > poison in the air. And other than food and water, is that all they > would need if they had to stay there for 6 months? > > Maybe I should ask the Slytherins since they spend a lot of time in the > dungeons. > > Tonks_op > I may be a bit crazy, but you have to admire my persistence. > Well, apparently no one here has any expertise on the subject; hence the silence. I simply googled: safe room ventilation, and came upon this page: http://www.americansaferoom.com/Safe-Cell-automatic-ventilation-kit.htm It discusses a ventilator meant to keep your safe room free of stale air, odors, mold and mildew while you're not using it, but also has links to a page featuring their Safe Cell, which keeps the air breathable while the room is in use: http://www.americansaferoom.com/Safe-Cell-NBC-air-filtration-systems.htm I haven't read up on the technology or anything. And I don't know how you would keep it powered up for *months* if you had to -- but you can continue the research on your own. Annemehr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From miamibarb at comcast.net Wed Jul 23 23:41:22 2008 From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:41:22 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ...SO... I really do want to know how to have a safe room and AIR at the > same time. Should I have plants? ... People that have safe rooms or storm cellars in tornado alley don't stay in them long enough to have issues with air. I'm not even sure that these cellars are airtight anyway. Remember the storm cellar in "The Wizard of Oz?" Conversely basements are rare In Florida ("hurricane alley?") The water table is often too close to the surface to build them. Drowning is the bigest risk with hurricanes anyway. There is a house in my neighborhood with a bomb shelter. It built by an ex-military man. The best he could do is an above-ground basement (had windows.) Why did he bother? From minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com Thu Jul 24 01:58:26 2008 From: minnesotatiffany at hotmail.com (Tiffany B. Clark) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:58:26 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > OK.. let me try this again. > > The President and the Congress has secret underground bunkers or > something that they go into in the event of an attack on the country. > In fact they used them during 9/11. Also submarines manage somehow to > go under the sea and stay for a long time before coming back up. I am > not a scientific person and I don't understand about oxygen, etc. But I > know that we need it and there is a balance between the plants and us. > On an smaller scale than the government has, how would a person live > underground as far as oxygen is concerned if you had to concerned about > poison in the air. And other than food and water, is that all they > would need if they had to stay there for 6 months? > > Maybe I should ask the Slytherins since they spend a lot of time in the > dungeons. > > Tonks_op > > I may be a bit crazy, but you have to admire my persistence. Tiffany: The Greenbrier Hotel in White Sulphur Springs, WV was a secret bunker place in case of nuclear war in the Cold War era. The east wing of the White House is rumored to have a place that can withstand nuclear bombs & was mentioned in Richard Clarke's book "Against All Enemies". Links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Emergency_Operations_Center http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greenbrier From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 03:54:18 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:54:18 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does this mean that all TV in the UK has to pay the license?? Don't you have any free TV that does have commercials? I see all of the cool UK sitcoms free on PBS. But I don't get cable and can only get about 7 stations with my rabbit ears sort of reception. That will be gone come Feb. 2009 unless I get a converter box or a new TV. When I want to enjoy lots of good movies and cable TV I have to wait till a friend goes on vacation and I house-sit for her. That is only once or twice a year. Then I enjoy doing all of my laundry in her machines and watch her TV all day and half the night. Best that I don't have cable at home, I would never get anything done. Tonks_op From willsonkmom at msn.com Thu Jul 24 11:09:01 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:09:01 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Tonks" wrote: > On an smaller scale than the government has, how would a person live > underground as far as oxygen is concerned if you had to concerned about > poison in the air. And other than food and water, is that all they > would need if they had to stay there for 6 months? > > Maybe I should ask the Slytherins since they spend a lot of time in the > dungeons. Tonks: Don't ask Slytherins, they wouldn't tell you. And even if they did, you don't have a wand. You don't, do you? On a smaller scale than the government, or big business, or a very rich person I don't think you could live under ground for very long. I googled bomb shelters and looked at two sites. One addressed how spacious and pleasant the shelter was, while the photo gave me the creeps. Did not look spacious or pleasant to me. I didn't get so far as to how long a person could stay inside. It also mentioned an underground power source, but it didn't say what the power source used for power. I don't know what the space station does for water and air. I'm sure a portion of the water is recycled, but they have to bring up and replace the water supply. They must have brought up oxygen or air and that must be filtered to remove carbon dioxide. My resident expert tells me that ships at sea and submarines make their own water from sea water. Ships at sea, subs and the space station are manned with engineers and technicians. They have access to experts on earth. A family wouldn't have that. So once a generator broke, or the air went bad, that would be it. But, what would you need? Food and water per day per person for how many days(and a place to store it). An air purifying system. A sewage system. A garbage/trash storage system. Medical supplies. Radio. Batteries. A power source. A deck of cards. A really good sense of humor. It wouldn't hurt to invite an engineer to join you. Neither have anything to do with underground shelters, but you could read, "Alas, Babylon" or watch. "On the Beach." My high schooler had to read the book. It's ok, but it aint literature. It's about a small group of people who manage to survive after nuclear war. Lucky for them they were in Florida. Year round food supply. The movie is about a similar theme, and is amazing only because Anthony Perkins plays a nice young man. The movie is very depressing. From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 15:38:01 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:38:01 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > Don't ask Slytherins, they wouldn't tell you. And even if they did, you don't have a wand. > > > You don't, do you? Tonks here: Actually, my dead, I have many, many wands. And a couple of Muggle guns too. Potioncat said: It wouldn't hurt to invite an engineer to join you. Tonks: OH!!! Well as a matter of fact, one of those friends IS an engineer. She makes cars. Don't know how helpful that will be, but she use to be in the Navy too. And her Uncle is a retired engineer... duh.. Don't say it... ;-) Of course I would have a complete copy of the HP books too. Potioncat: > Neither have anything to do with underground shelters, but you could read, "Alas, Babylon" or watch. "On the Beach." My high schooler had to read the book. It's ok, but it aint literature. It's about a small group of people who manage to survive after nuclear war. Tonks: I saw that movie when it first came out.. I won't tell you the year. Tonks_op From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 19:21:24 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:21:24 -0000 Subject: Emergency Plan - What would you do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks wrote: > SO... I really do want to know how to have a safe room and AIR at the same time. Should I have plants? Is is called a biosphear? If not what is a biosphear? Carol responds: I can't answer the main question, but I can tell you what a biosphere (bio = life = sphere) is. Biosphere 1 is the earth itself. Biosphere 2 is an enclosed, self-sustaining ecosystem twenty miles down Oracle Road from my apartment. Here's a link: http://www.b2science.org/ Carol, who doubts that a person living in an apartment could create her own biosphere! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 19:30:09 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:30:09 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn wrote: > > > Also, if your Character Encoding View is set to Unicode instead > of Western, even the codes I've entered here won't view > right. There are a lot of complicating factors here. Carol again: Mine is set to Western unless I'm reading Tonks's posts, which require me to set it to Unicode so the quotation marks and apostrophes won't show up as gibberish. > Carol earlier: > > > > BTW, Yahoo won't let me use your method. ... > > bboyminn: > > I always post on-line, in the actual Yahoo Group, and it lets me enter these codes all the time, as this post here clearly attests. > > Also, I quickly opened MS-Word (ver 2000; 9.0.2720) and had no problem entering ALT 0163 and ALT 0128 to get the British Pound mark and the EURO sign. > > The only explanation I have is that you must have bad Karma. > (Its' a joke) Carol: Bad karma! I'm doomed! So it's not Yahoo or Word 2000. It must be some setting on my keyboard, which plinks at me if I try to type Alt anything! Really, it does. Come to Tucson and try it. :-) Carol, who has heard enough about karma and Huna and "spirit guides" in her current 2012-related editing project to last a lifetime! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 19:41:26 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:41:26 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks wrote: > > OK.. let me try this again. > On an smaller scale than the government has, how would a person live underground as far as oxygen is concerned if you had to concerned about poison in the air. And other than food and water, is that all they would need if they had to stay there for 6 months? carol responds: I can't answer your technical questions, but it wouldn't hurt to have plants because they require carbon dioxide and produce oxygen, the opposite of animals and humans. However, plants need light and water to stay alive, and I have no idea how much oxygen a plant produces. (Maybe you could grow hydroponic tomatoes, as they do in Antarctica.) I'll tell you one thing, though. The people who stock up on toilet paper as well as staple foods are being sensible. I'd stock up on Kleenex (sorry, tissues), too, and anything else you might need, for example, a first-aid kit, several flashlights, a solar power generator if feasible (probably not in an apartment), some sort of battery operated radio (maybe a two-way radio), and a stock of books, puzzles, games and other forms of entertainment because, believe me, if you're going to stay in an underground shelter for very long, you're going to be bored! I'd bring writing tablets or notebooks and a journal, but that's just me. Carol, sorry that she can't provide you with any practical advice in building the survival shelter itself (especially if your building, like mine, has no basement) From bboyminn at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 22:42:13 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:42:13 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "dumbledore11214" wrote: > > --- "Goddlefrood" > wrote: > > > > > Steve: > > > It seems you are required to pay a ?139 ($279) annual fee for > > > the privilege of watching Television in the UK. And, all that > > > money goes to non-profit 'public' television. > > > > Goddlefrood: > > > > It goes to the BBC, which also makes money on other projects. > > It means there are NO advertisements on the channel. Many in > > the UK grumble about the licence fee, but it's a small price > > to pay for what is a quality service (BBC). Or rather was a > > quality service. > > > > Alla: > > I am sorry, that's it? $279 dollars a year ( sorry typing in dollars > since I cannot find pound site on my keyboard) is all that is > required? > > Or is it in addition to cable TV fee? But even if it is in addition > to cable service, myself I would soooo pay it in order not to see > stupid advertisement, honestly. > > Alla, dreams of no ads on TV. > bboyminn: As someone else pointed out this $279/yr pays for 5 channels, some radio, and a few other things, but 3 of those 5 channels are commercial, so really it's only two channels. That's what I get for free here in the USA, meaning two commercial free channels (PBS), though today's PBS can hardly be called commerial free. They do have short, mostly unobtrusive, commercials for organization who make extremely generous donations to PBS and would like the world to know. So, that's $279 if you have a TV, even if you don't watch it. This is unrelated to Cable, satellite, or video from other sources. You pay for those source independently. As someone also pointed out my estimate of 15,000,000 UK households was a bit conservative. They estimated 25,000,000 households which comes to 6,975 Billion dollars per year. And as Goddlefrood pointed out, BBC generates revenue from other source. That seems a lot of money for what is essentially 2 commercial free channels. Is this a tax? Well, it is mandated by law, and there are people with police authority roaming the streets searching for TV Scofflaws, there are penalties for non-compliance, so yes, I would say it is a tax. My next and most important concern is that it is a mandatory tax that burdens the poor. If you are middle class or rich, $279 is nothing. But if you are down on the bottom of the economic ladder, that is a substantial outlay of money. Especially when it is for channels that you may not even watch. Though even I will admit that most likely you do. And even more so in an economy where housing prices are already through the roof, gas is insanely expensive and always has been, food I suspect is not cheap, utilities are outrageous, even garbage service has turned near draconian with penalties and fines. Over all, on top of the routine expenses of living, these poor people must now pay $279 a year when they are scraping by week to week. That just doesn't seem right. Still, if that is how the do it, then that is how they do it. But I can't help wonder whether the cost of enforcing the law is generating enough revenue to pay for that enforcement. If seems like a system that is ripe for a huge bureaucracy. A bureaucracy to collect and account for the money. A bureaucracy to enforce collection and catch scofflaws. Some on to collect those non-compliance penalties. Some one to keep track of it all, and keep track of all the people, and people to watch the people who watch the people. I just strikes me more as a system that consumes money rather than a system that collects money with some assurance that the money actually goes to the necessary cause. Still, if that's the way it is, then that's the way it is. It doesn't seem fair to the economically disadvantaged though. For what it's worth. Steve/bluewizard From bboyminn at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 22:46:42 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:46:42 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Carol" wrote: > Carol: > > Bad karma! I'm doomed! So it's not Yahoo or Word 2000. It must be > some setting on my keyboard, which plinks at me if I try to type Alt > anything! Really, it does. Come to Tucson and try it. :-) > > Carol, who has heard enough about karma and Huna and "spirit guides" > in her current 2012-related editing project to last a lifetime! > bboyminn; Just so we are clear this ONLY WORKS with the numeric keypad on the right hand side of your keyboard. The number keys across the top up there above the letter keys, they won't work at all. Steve/bboyminn From bboyminn at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 22:49:58 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:49:58 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? CORRECTION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It won't matter to any one in Europe because it will still read correctly to them, but just so we are clear here in the USA - "...which comes to 6,975 Billion dollars per year. " That should be - 6.975 Billion per year. Steve From tonks_op at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 04:08:00 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:08:00 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > Carol again: > Mine is set to Western unless I'm reading Tonks's posts, which require me to set it to Unicode so the quotation marks and apostrophes won't show up as gibberish. > > Tonks here: Hey... wait a minute. I stopped proofing it is Word first, I have been using Yahoo mail to check my spelling and then cuting and pasteing back from there. Are you STILL getting giberish?? boo.. hoo... Say it isn't so.. I just typed this straight into the group, but I can't spell and need a spell check. I am getting spoiled at Yahoo Answers because you can post there and check your spelling and even go back and fix any boo- boos that you made after you posted it. Tonks_OP Who thinks that Carol's biosphear is really cool. From tonks_op at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 04:21:19 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:21:19 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > carol responds: > I'll tell you one thing, though. The people who stock up on toilet > paper as well as staple foods are being sensible. I'd stock up on > Kleenex (sorry, tissues), too, and anything else you might need, for example, a first-aid kit, several flashlights, a solar power generator if feasible (probably not in an apartment), some sort of battery operated radio (maybe a two-way radio), and a stock of books, puzzles, games and other forms of entertainment because, believe me, if you're going to stay in an underground shelter for very long, you're going to be bored! I'd bring writing tablets or notebooks and a journal, but that's just me. Tonks: I plan to build a house, but my apartment does have a basement, but I would not want to go down there, it is full of bats. Long story. And I have a list with TP being the first item. Kleenex the second. Water third. I always keep 3 months of T.P. and Kleenex on hand anyway. As you get older it is too hard to get out to the stores just before a blizzard comes and every fool in 10 countries is trying to get to the stores. Also you never know when you might be ill and can't get out. So I have a lot of stuff year around, best especally in the winter. I remember a few years ago when the whole electrical grid went out for the East and part of the Midwest. Everyone's first thought was a terrorist attack. I had been prepared with water, and supplies, radio, flashlites, batteries, etc. But my friend was not. So here I am doing the very thing that I carefully had prepared not to do.. and that was going to the store.. the only one that had its own generator and getting supplies for her. Every year at Christmas I buy her another flashlight. She must have 20 of them by now, but can she ever find one!! When we go to a movie she can not see and tries to grab at me.. and I say.. where is your FLASHLITE?? Now she has one in her purse, but she still grabs at me. You never know when you might need a flashlite. I was in a big store once during a storm and all the lights went out. Not good. And their backup lights came on and went out twice. Be prepared.. a good auror is always prepared!! Tonks_op From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 07:20:03 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 07:20:03 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Tonks" wrote: > > --- "Carol" wrote: > > Carol again: > > Mine is set to Western unless I'm reading Tonks's posts, which > require me to set it to Unicode so the quotation marks and apostrophes > won't show up as gibberish. > > > > > > Tonks here: > > Hey... wait a minute. I stopped proofing it is Word first, I have been > using Yahoo mail to check my spelling and then cuting and pasteing back > from there. Are you STILL getting giberish?? boo.. hoo... Say it isn't > so.. I just typed this straight into the group, but I can't spell and > need a spell check. I am getting spoiled at Yahoo Answers because you > can post there and check your spelling and even go back and fix any boo- > boos that you made after you posted it. > > Tonks_OP > Who thinks that Carol's biosphear is really cool. > bboyminn: Well, if you just used FireFox or SeaMonkey they come with built-in spell check. Even now as I type, SeaMonkey is spell checking your post. Giberish/Gibberish, cuting/cutting, pasteing/pasting, biosphear/biosphere were all marked with a red underline indicating a spelling error. I concede, I had to check the correct spelling myself for Gibberish and biosphere. I like SeaMonkey, it is closest to the old Mozilla/Netscape browsers from day of old, but much more advanced, and best of all, it's free. I also use FireFox 2, but I like SeaMonkey better. Steve/bluewizard From annemehr at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 10:27:08 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:27:08 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Tonks here: > > > > I just typed this straight into the group, but I can't spell and > > need a spell check. I am getting spoiled at Yahoo Answers because you > > can post there and check your spelling and even go back and fix any boo- > > boos that you made after you posted it. > > > > Tonks_OP > > Who thinks that Carol's biosphear is really cool. > > > > > bboyminn: > > Well, if you just used FireFox or SeaMonkey they come with built-in > spell check. Annemehr: I just use IE, but it has a Google toolbar with a spellcheck button that works when you type into any web form, including posting here on webview. From donnawonna at att.net Fri Jul 25 12:20:22 2008 From: donnawonna at att.net (Donna) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:20:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: Film locations Message-ID: <4889C506.000006.02244@LIFESAVER> Donna: Are the HP movies filmed on a set or at a real castle? If so, where? Seems like many years ago I read somewhere that the first film, at least, was filmed on location at a real castle but my memory isn't as good as it once was. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 14:28:27 2008 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:28:27 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Film locations In-Reply-To: <4889C506.000006.02244@LIFESAVER> References: <4889C506.000006.02244@LIFESAVER> Message-ID: Donna: > Are the HP movies filmed on a set or at a real castle? If so, where? Seems > like many years ago I read somewhere that the first film, at least, was > filmed on location at a real castle but my memory isn't as good as it once > was. Thank you. IMDB will give you a fairly comprehensive list of the filming locations. There are castles listed in all the location lists, I do believe. PS/SS: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0241527/locations CoS: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0295297/locations PoA: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0304141/locations GoF: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0330373/locations OotP: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0373889/locations HBP: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0417741/locations ~Ali From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 25 15:00:09 2008 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:00:09 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve wrote: > As someone else pointed out this $279/yr pays for 5 channels, some > radio, and a few other things, but 3 of those 5 channels are > commercial, so really it's only two channels. Mary Ann: With Freeview, as I explained earlier, it's 5 BBC channels, a few dozen commercial channels (mostly crap IMO, but that's neither here nor there) and a good number of radio stations. Granted, not everyone has Freeview yet, but, as I also mentioned earlier, the entire country's changing to digital within the next few years. If one's telly set doesn't support Freeview, and practically any purchased within the past few years will, then boxes can be picked up for about ?20. The government has mentioned giving free boxes to senior citizens as pension money is tight and many of these people still have older sets. Steve: > That's what I get for free here in the USA, meaning two commercial > free channels (PBS), though today's PBS can hardly be called commerial > free. They do have short, mostly unobtrusive, commercials for > organization who make extremely generous donations to PBS and would > like the world to know. Mary Ann: And let's not forget what is lovingly called the BegFests. In Toronto cable TV gets you the Buffalo PBS channel. Goldie and Susan still haunt my dreams ("Send us yer dah-lers!"). Steve: > So, that's $279 if you have a TV, even if you don't watch it. This is > unrelated to Cable, satellite, or video from other sources. You pay > for those source independently. Mary Ann: If you don't own a telly then you don't have to pay, obviously. If you're visually impaired you pay a substantially reduced rate. When I first moved to the UK in '95 there was also a reduced rate for black and white telly sets, though those must be rare nowadays. If you don't watch the BBC then you may be out of luck, to be blunt, but if you prefer stuff like Coronation Street, Big Brother and Dog the Bounty Hunter then you're probably more interested in satellite channels anyway, and would be willing to pay for that. See more on that below. Steve: > As someone also pointed out my estimate of 15,000,000 UK households > was a bit conservative. They estimated 25,000,000 households which > comes to 6,975 Billion dollars per year. And as Goddlefrood pointed > out, BBC generates revenue from other source. That seems a lot of > money for what is essentially 2 commercial free channels. Mary Ann: I defy anyone to come up with the documentaries which the BBC produces on just the profits of the TV licences. Have you ever watched any David Attenborough specials, for example? Now I'll happily admit that I have an extreme bias towards the BBC, which is why I happily pay my TV licence. Pulling the TV licence would mean the BBC becoming a commercial station and, therefore, being completely dumbed down. Personally I'd chuck my set through my front window if that ever happened. I know what absolute crap (IMO) the vast, vast majority of Canadian and US television shows, and no way do I want that to happen to the BBC. I can't give you statistics, but I know that I'm by no means the only person who feels this way. BBC snobs abound in the UK, and outside the UK, too. :) Steve: > Is this a tax? Well, it is mandated by law, and there are people with > police authority roaming the streets searching for TV Scofflaws, there > are penalties for non-compliance, so yes, I would say it is a tax. Mary Ann: So would I, even though it's not called a tax by the official boffins. Steve: > My next and most important concern is that it is a mandatory tax that > burdens the poor. If you are middle class or rich, $279 is nothing. > But if you are down on the bottom of the economic ladder, that is a > substantial outlay of money. Especially when it is for channels that > you may not even watch. Though even I will admit that most likely you do. Mary Ann: This will sound like prejudice and stereotyping, but I defend my statement by pointing to my Honours Bachelor degree with a double major in sociology and anthropology, so my informal observation skills are strong. Have a pootle around a UK council estate, be it populated by family homes or high-rise flats, and count the number of satellite dishes. Yes, the TV licence is dear, as the British saying goes, but OTOH a good handful poorer people are willing to pay extra for satellite telly on top of the licence free. It's a question of priorities, and for such people TV watching is a very high priority indeed. This may be linked to what social scientists call the "benefits culture", referring to those families where two, or in some cases three generations of the same family have only lived off benefits and none have ever held a job. I haven't studied this in detail myself, so I'm certainly no expert on the subject. Steve: > And even more so in an economy where housing prices are already > through the roof, gas is insanely expensive and always has been, food > I suspect is not cheap, utilities are outrageous, even garbage service > has turned near draconian with penalties and fines. Over all, on top > of the routine expenses of living, these poor people must now pay $279 > a year when they are scraping by week to week. That just doesn't seem > right. Mary Ann: See above. Also, I think that the licence can be paid in installments rather than in one go. A few years ago you could go to the local post office and by TV Licence stamps, which you'd stick in a book and, when the yearly bill came, you used your stamps towards the payment. My husband and I used to pay practically the entire licence fee that way, and that was with one pretty modest income and three small children. I know the stamp system is no longer in existence, which is annoying. Yes, this is an expensive place to live. Like everyone else we need to budget for the necessities, and, for telly-owning Brits, the licence is a necessity. The majority of us suck it up and get on with life. Steve: > Still, if that is how the do it, then that is how they do it. But I > can't help wonder whether the cost of enforcing the law is generating > enough revenue to pay for that enforcement. If seems like a system > that is ripe for a huge bureaucracy. A bureaucracy to collect and > account for the money. A bureaucracy to enforce collection and catch > scofflaws. Some on to collect those non-compliance penalties. Some one > to keep track of it all, and keep track of all the people, and people > to watch the people who watch the people. Mary Ann: I'm sure you're right and that the bureaucracy is a joke, but then it usually is, isn't it? :) I hope you'll excuse the link to the BBC! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7517143.stm The story doesn't say anything about the total amount collected in fines and how much the venture costs, but licence fraud detection is a regular part of daily life for Brits. My guess is that it's at least somewhat profitable, or they wouldn't bother with it. Steve: > I just strikes me more as a system that consumes money rather than a > system that collects money with some assurance that the money actually > goes to the necessary cause. Mary Ann: Out of curiousity, what exactly do you mean by "the necessary cause"? Steve: > Still, if that's the way it is, then that's the way it is. It doesn't > seem fair to the economically disadvantaged though. Mary Ann: The UK government is pretty good with helping the economically disadvantaged via housing benefits, tax benefits, council tax exemptions, etc, provided you know your entitlements (that another rant for another day). This is a country which allows my young son with Autistic Spectrum Disorder, who is high-functioning enough to cope in a mainstream school with a full-time one-to-one helper, to qualify for middle-range Disability Living Allowance (which is not means-tested) and, therefore, for me to currently qualify for (means- tested) Carer's Allowance. Of course the system isn't perfect, but darned if I'm going to gripe about having to pay for what I think is top-quality TV viewing while the government gives families such as mine such extra financial support. Mary Ann, who thinks that life without the BBC's version of Mr. Darcy isn't worth living From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Jul 25 15:11:25 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:11:25 -0000 Subject: Film locations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "P. Alexis Nguyen" wrote: > > Donna: > > Are the HP movies filmed on a set or at a real castle? If so, where? Seems > > like many years ago I read somewhere that the first film, at least, was > > filmed on location at a real castle but my memory isn't as good as it once > > was. Thank you. > > IMDB will give you a fairly comprehensive list of the filming > locations. There are castles listed in all the location lists, I do > believe. Geoff: IMDB is wrong on at least two counts with the information for the "Philosopher's Stone" locations. The pedestrian bridge listed as York is at King's Cross. As the scene opens, you can see down to the terminal buffers with the glass screens above. York is famously built on a long curve and is a through railway station. The second misinformation is that the exterior view (using St. Pancras Station) does not occur in this film, it occurs in "Chamber of Secrets". It is always a source of amusement in the UK that the film correctly uses the interior of KX but the outside of St.Pancras. The two railway stations are literally about 150 yards apart; perhaps they feel that the Gothic exterior of the latter suits the mood of the stories? From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 16:10:15 2008 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:10:15 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Film locations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Geoff: > IMDB is wrong on at least two counts with the information for the > "Philosopher's Stone" locations. :) IMDB suffers from the same problems as Wikipedia. While IMDB *seems* to try to clarify their sources (somehow), I still read it with the same critical eye as Wikipedia. Regardless, though, it's a good place to start for stuff like this, I think. And yes, I do think they felt that the Gothic exterior fit the feel of the movie better, not that the first two movies were so very Gothic-feeling. Why else would they pay to use two places instead of one? That clearly costs money. ~Ali From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Jul 25 17:01:45 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:01:45 -0000 Subject: Film locations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "P. Alexis Nguyen" wrote: > > Geoff: > > IMDB is wrong on at least two counts with the information for the > > "Philosopher's Stone" locations. Ali: > :) IMDB suffers from the same problems as Wikipedia. While IMDB > *seems* to try to clarify their sources (somehow), I still read it > with the same critical eye as Wikipedia. Regardless, though, it's a > good place to start for stuff like this, I think. > > And yes, I do think they felt that the Gothic exterior fit the feel of > the movie better, not that the first two movies were so very > Gothic-feeling. Why else would they pay to use two places instead of > one? That clearly costs money. Geoff: They could sneak up the approach road at St.Pancras with a small camera crew, grab a couple of quick shots of cars parking and then scarper..... Not quite so easy at KX. :-) From bboyminn at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 18:05:37 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:05:37 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Mary Ann" wrote: > > ... > > Steve: > > > I just strikes me more as a system that consumes money > > rather than a system that collects money with some > > assurance that the money actually goes to the necessary > > cause. > > Mary Ann: > > Out of curiousity, what exactly do you mean by > "the necessary cause"? > > ... bboyminn: Excellent response and very enlightening. What I mean by 'the necessary cause' is actual TV programs of all sorts. How much of the money collected goes to bureaucratic excess and excess Bureaucracy, and how much actually produces something of value. By way of illustration, there are more people working in the US Dept of Agriculture than there are farmers. Or, why does the USA government collect money from the State only to turn around and dole it back to them. For every hand the money passes through, the total value of that money shrinks. Our governement spend millions, probably billions if not trillions, simply taking money out of its left pocket and putting it in its right. Classic examples of both 'bureaucratic excess and excess Bureaucracy'. Bureaucratic excess is simply wasteful spending. What do we care if the ashtrays cost $600 or we are paying $50 for a box of Oreo cookies; it's not our money? Excess bureacracy is simply bloated middle management filled with people who consume money but add no value to the system in return for that money. Governments are famous for both these. Sorry, got off on a bit of a rant there. Steve/bboyminn From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 19:19:51 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:19:51 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn: > > As someone else pointed out this $279/yr pays for 5 channels, some radio, and a few other things, but 3 of those 5 channels are commercial, so really it's only two channels. > > That's what I get for free here in the USA, meaning two commercial free channels (PBS), though today's PBS can hardly be called commerial free. Carol responds: Not for long. On February 19, 2009 (if I have the date right), you'll no longer be able to view TV free using rabbit ears. That's the date when all the stations will change from analog to digital. I've been told that I won't need a converter because the cable company will convert the signal through my cable box. I hope that's the case because I certainly don't want to buy a converter--or a new TV. Carol, remembering the old days when (almost) every house had a TV antenna From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 19:28:31 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:28:31 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn; > > Just so we are clear this ONLY WORKS with the numeric keypad on the right hand side of your keyboard. > > The number keys across the top up there above the letter keys, they won't work at all. Carol responds: Aha! I never use that keypad except for "end," "home," and the arrow keys. I keep NumLock turned off. I type numbers as I would on a regular typewriter (though I have to look at the keyboard to type the numbers). So here goes (turning NumLock on temporarily): ? ? Okay, it works, sort of. That first character was intended to be a pound sign. I guess I forgot the code. Thanks, Steve. I love this list. I'm always learning something new! Is there a website that lists these codes in case I ever need a pound sign or a cent sign? Carol, whose business is slowing down because people consider copyediting to be a luxury in a tight economy From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 19:40:56 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:40:56 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Carol again: > > Mine is set to Western unless I'm reading Tonks's posts, which > require me to set it to Unicode so the quotation marks and apostrophes > won't show up as gibberish. > > > > > > Tonks here: > > Hey... wait a minute. I stopped proofing it is Word first, I have been using Yahoo mail to check my spelling and then cuting and pasteing back from there. Are you STILL getting giberish?? boo.. hoo... Say it isn't so.. I just typed this straight into the group, but I can't spell and need a spell check. I am getting spoiled at Yahoo Answers because you can post there and check your spelling and even go back and fix any boo-boos that you made after you posted it. > > Tonks_OP > Who thinks that Carol's biosphear is really cool. > Carol responds: Glad you liked Biosphere 2 (though if you look it up on Google, you'll want to spell "sphere" with two e's and no a). If you ever come to Tucson (which should *not* be in summer!), it's definitely worth a visit. If I recall correctly, a group of people actually lived there for awhile, rather like living on the space shuttle but less cramped (and less dangerous). Back to the gibberish in posts, this particular post came out fine, even the apostrophe. Maybe it's only quotation marks that cause the problem. If so, turning off "Smart quotes" in Word might solve the problem. What do you have the character encoding set to? (Look under "Character encoding" in the View menu at the top of the page in your Web browser--IE or Firefox or Netscape if you're obstinate like me.) Carol, who doesn't trust spell checks but finds some of their suggestions amusing (*grammar* checks are next to worthless!) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 19:48:33 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:48:33 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Annemehr: > I just use IE, but it has a Google toolbar with a spellcheck button that works when you type into any web form, including posting here on webview. Carol responds: I hate IE, partly because it's needlessly complicated, partly because it's owned by Microsoft, and partly because you can't cut-and-paste a URL into the address bar as you can in Netscape. Anyone know how to get past that last problem without resulting to function keys? (I always hit control P and get print instead of paste! Carol, who isn't planning to switch to IE but sometimes has to use it on other people's computers From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 20:05:59 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:05:59 -0000 Subject: Film locations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff: > IMDB is wrong on at least two counts with the information for the "Philosopher's Stone" locations. The pedestrian bridge listed as York is at King's Cross. As the scene opens, you can see down to the terminal buffers with the glass screens above. York is famously built on a long curve and is a through railway station. > > The second misinformation is that the exterior view (using St. Pancras Station) does not occur in this film, it occurs in "Chamber of Secrets". > > It is always a source of amusement in the UK that the film correctly uses the interior of KX but the outside of St.Pancras. The two railway stations are literally about 150 yards apart; perhaps they feel that the Gothic exterior of the latter suits the mood of the stories? Carol responds: Fascinating! I'm sure your'e right on the last point. As for the errors, have you considered submitting the corrections to the IMDb? Speaking of errors, or rather, problems with the IMDb, their character analysis for Snape has a link that's supposed to protect against spoiler warnings (click it only if you don't mind spoilers, rather like the Dark Marks in JKR's FAQ). Unfortunately, the death date isn't concealed beneath the link. Talk about a spoiler! (I don't know whether that's true for the other characters who died in the series; I assume that it is.) Carol, who had to figure out what "KX" meant and for some reason read "St. Pancras" (whoever he was) as "St. Pancreas"! From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 25 20:07:19 2008 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:07:19 -0000 Subject: Bureaucracy (was Yearly TV Licence? ...Really?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve wrote: > I just strikes me more as a system that consumes money > rather than a system that collects money with some > assurance that the money actually goes to the necessary > cause. I, Mary Ann, asked: > Out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by > "the necessary cause"? Steve answered: > Excellent response and very enlightening. Mary Ann: Thanks. :) I enjoy these types of discussions. Learn something new every day and all that. Steve: > What I mean by 'the necessary cause' is actual TV programs of > all sorts. > > How much of the money collected goes to bureaucratic excess > and excess Bureaucracy, and how much actually produces something > of value. Mary Ann: Gah, who knows? If I did some deep research I may come up with an answer but, to be perfectly honest, I'm not too sure if I want to know the answer! Steve: > Excess bureacracy is simply bloated middle management filled > with people who consume money but add no value to the system > in return for that money. Mary Ann: Oh, that is so, so true. Bureaucracy also has a habit of giving the wrong people responsibilities for skill-specific tasks which these people do not possess. Some months ago a friend of mine, who works in the magistrate's office in a southwest UK city, was, for some unknown reason, given the task of familiarising magistrate judges with their new laptop computer software despite my friend hardly being able to use the software herself. And no, she does not, nor has she ever, work in tech support. Stereotypically these men and women of law are pretty much clueless when it comes to anything more technical than adjusting their funny wigs so my poor friend was forever being bombarded with problems these magistrates were having. One of the main problems was the judges locking themselves out of their own computers because they couldn't remember their passwords, which makes the matter of them taking the future of members of the public into their "capable" hands pretty scary. Anyway, my friend constantly had to pass these computer problems on to tech support, where they should have gone to in the first place. Instead of tech support working directly with the judges, though, they had to go back through my friend. This, of course, slowed the entire process down, infuriating the judges who were stranded without their laptops and caused my friend vast amounts of stress. It's an insane situation which never should have happened, but that's local government for you. Don't get me started on bureaucracy in the education system or we'll be here for days and I'll burst a few blood vessels in the process. Mary Ann, who has every intention of keeping her nose clean and never, ever ending up in a magistrate's court From annemehr at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 20:08:01 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:08:01 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > > bboyminn: > > > > As someone else pointed out this $279/yr pays for 5 channels, some > radio, and a few other things, but 3 of those 5 channels are > commercial, so really it's only two channels. > > > > That's what I get for free here in the USA, meaning two commercial > free channels (PBS), though today's PBS can hardly be called commerial > free. > > Carol responds: > > Not for long. On February 19, 2009 (if I have the date right), you'll > no longer be able to view TV free using rabbit ears. That's the date > when all the stations will change from analog to digital. > > I've been told that I won't need a converter because the cable company > will convert the signal through my cable box. I hope that's the case > because I certainly don't want to buy a converter--or a new TV. > > Carol, remembering the old days when (almost) every house had a TV antenna > My parents don't have cable, and they got a converter free with the coupon the government was sending out (but there was a limited supply of those coupons -- they're probably all gone by now). In any case, the converter is much, much cheaper than cable, and my mom and dad tell me they pull in more local channels than they ever did with regular analog -- and the reception is absolutely perfect for each of them. Of course, what channels anyone would get would depend on where they live. Annemehr From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 20:15:43 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:15:43 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Annemehr: > My parents don't have cable, and they got a converter free with the coupon the government was sending out (but there was a limited supply of those coupons -- they're probably all gone by now). > > In any case, the converter is much, much cheaper than cable, and my mom and dad tell me they pull in more local channels than they ever did with regular analog -- and the reception is absolutely perfect for each of them. > > Of course, what channels anyone would get would depend on where they live. Carol responds: In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) Carol, more confused than ever about the switchover From annemehr at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 20:17:49 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:17:49 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Annemehr: > > I just use IE, but it has a Google toolbar with a spellcheck button > that works when you type into any web form, including posting here on > webview. > > Carol responds: > I hate IE, partly because it's needlessly complicated, partly because > it's owned by Microsoft, and partly because you can't cut-and-paste a > URL into the address bar as you can in Netscape. Anyone know how to > get past that last problem without resulting to function keys? (I > always hit control P and get print instead of paste! > > Carol, who isn't planning to switch to IE but sometimes has to use it > on other people's computers > Annemehr, again: I used to use Netscape all the time, until I kept running into problems on different sites I wanted to use -- particularly Yahoo mail. The (one?) advantage of IE is that everything works in it. To copy and paste, I use the mouse (just seems easier to me). I highlight what I want to copy, and right click on it, and select "copy" from the pop-up menu. Then, to paste, click the cursor where you want it, and right click there, and select "paste." Since I'm using the mouse to do the selection, it always seemed silly to switch to the keyboard to c&p. Annemehr, whose husband thinks it's silly to use the mouse to c&p From annemehr at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 20:27:19 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:27:19 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Annemehr: > > My parents don't have cable, and they got a converter free with the > coupon the government was sending out (but there was a limited supply > of those coupons -- they're probably all gone by now). > > > > In any case, the converter is much, much cheaper than cable, and my > mom and dad tell me they pull in more local channels than they ever > did with regular analog -- and the reception is absolutely perfect for > each of them. > > > > Of course, what channels anyone would get would depend on where they > live. > > Carol responds: > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons > for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. > Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to > Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot > of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? > > And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) > > Carol, more confused than ever about the switchover > Annemehr: Yep, we're in the US (in the Pittsburgh TV market). Lots of questions answered here: http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#converter The first question regarding converter boxes tells you where to go to get your coupons. (The bit about the free coupons running out may turn out to be a false rumor -- it was something my husband heard somewhere. But this site says every household gets two). From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 20:47:37 2008 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:47:37 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carol responds: > I hate IE, partly because it's needlessly complicated, partly because > it's owned by Microsoft, and partly because you can't cut-and-paste a > URL into the address bar as you can in Netscape. Anyone know how to > get past that last problem without resulting to function keys? (I > always hit control P and get print instead of paste! I use Firefox, though I rather like IE - between the two, I can pretty much guarantee any websites I design will work for the vast majority. But then, I've never had your problems. Here are the shortcuts you're looking for. The following shortcuts work in the Windows environment (and work on a Mac if you replace the control key with the command key): Cut: Ctrl + X Copy: Ctrl + C Paste: Ctrl + V And I detest Netscape - I have 5 browsers installed on my computer, and firing up Netscape is my least favourite one to launch of the 5. To each her own, I suppose. ~Ali From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 21:00:46 2008 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:00:46 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carol responds: > I've been told that I won't need a converter because the cable company > will convert the signal through my cable box. I hope that's the case > because I certainly don't want to buy a converter--or a new TV. If you have cable that uses a cable box, there is no need for you to run out to get a converter. You're very correct in that the cable company will be converting the signals for you. (I honestly don't know how it works for folks whose cable doesn't require the use of a box, but even my parents in KS can't get that kind of cable anymore, not that they're in any place particularly rural.) On the other hand, if you're thinking of getting rid of cable (giving up my Project Runway, Psych, My Boys, etc. shows that come only on cable TV just isn't an option for me), I have a friend who adores the channels she's getting via just antennae. By the way, as an aside, anyone who wants to have spell check in their browsers without installing the Google toolbar (or switching to a different program) can use an open-source software called Aspell (http://aspell.net/). I found out about via it being part of Pidgin, my IM client, but it can be installed as a standalone. I've got English & French installed so haven't tried out the other languages, but there's a ton, including some obscure ones (though Chinese & Japanese are not available so I'm thinking it's roman alphabet only). ~Ali From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Jul 25 21:01:11 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:01:11 -0000 Subject: Film locations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Geoff: > > IMDB is wrong on at least two counts with the information for the > "Philosopher's Stone" locations. The pedestrian bridge listed as York > is at King's Cross. As the scene opens, you can see down to the > terminal buffers with the glass screens above. York is famously built > on a long curve and is a through railway station. > > > > The second misinformation is that the exterior view (using St. > Pancras Station) does not occur in this film, it occurs in "Chamber of > Secrets". > > > > It is always a source of amusement in the UK that the film correctly > uses the interior of KX but the outside of St.Pancras. The two railway > stations are literally about 150 yards apart; perhaps they feel that > the Gothic exterior of the latter suits the mood of the stories? > > Carol responds: Fascinating! I'm sure your'e right on the last point. > As for the errors, have you considered submitting the corrections to > the IMDb? Geoff: I hadn't realised that the list existed until Ali drew our attention to it. Carol, who had to figure out what "KX" meant and for some reason read > "St. Pancras" (whoever he was) as "St. Pancreas"! Geoff: KX is a fairly frequent abbreviation in London speak - especially when referring to the railway station. St.Pancras was a young 4th century Christian martyr. I must admit, I've made jokes similar to what you read before now! From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 26 02:31:20 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:31:20 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks here: > > Hey... wait a minute. I stopped proofing it is Word first, I have been > using Yahoo mail to check my spelling and then cuting and pasteing back > from there. Are you STILL getting giberish?? boo.. hoo... Potioncat: First: If you want an easier way to proof your posts, use firefox instead of EI. I found out when I used by son's computer, that in that (I don't know the word for what firefox or explorer are) spell check is available. I keep wondering why I don't use firefox---habit I guess. So I still have multiple errors that I never catch until after I post. Second: (someone correct me if I'm wrong) what you see when you send and what someone sees when they open can be different depending on settings. Settings of what, I don't know. Place settings of china I understand. This, I don't. Potioncat, who has had a long confusing day at work and 1 1/2 glasses of wine. So, pleash ignore any errorsh. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 26 02:42:31 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:42:31 -0000 Subject: Film Locations, for movie buffs Message-ID: I started watching "Lassie, Come Home" a little while ago. I made it to the first tear-jerking scene, and had to bail. The introduction describes the area as Yorkshire. Between activity on this list and other reading interests, I was very interested in seeing the lovely countryside. Only...Yorkshire seemed a bit familiar. Thanks to another thread on this site, I went to IMDB and discovered "why" Yorkshire seemed so familiar! I used to live there when my husband and I were stationed in California. So, all you Brits out there. If we really want to see English country, can you recommend some movies/websites? Potioncat---who's going to check out "The Quiet Man" which I always thought looked like Salinas and Big Sur. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 26 02:49:40 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:49:40 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Annemehr: > > I just use IE, but it has a Google toolbar with a spellcheck button > that works when you type into any web form, including posting here on > webview. > Potioncat: Well, my earlier post looks pretty stupid now. I hadn't seen that IE/Firefox had been brought up. (I'll blame it on the wine.) But, how do you get the Google toolbar that lets you spell check in IE? From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jul 26 03:25:35 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:25:35 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks: > I plan to build a house, but my apartment does have a basement, but I > would not want to go down there, it is full of bats. Long story. Potioncat: Well, there's preparing for short-term natural disasters and there's preparing for man-made disasters. It sounds like you're thinking of the latter. From my point of view, which could be wrong, a safe room would be a place in your home that would be safest in the case of an emergency. A bomb shelter would a place built to protect the residents from hostile action. Did the FEMA web site address bomb shelters? "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is an old joke, but I'd want to know exactly what I wanted before I trusted a builder to tell me what I needed. I wonder how you would know when to come out of a personal bomb shelter? What if the bomb shelter was in your basement and the house fell down on top of it. How would you get out? Not making a point, just curious. Also thinking, that based on what members have suggested, is it possible the pyramids were safe rooms? They had the sorts of items we've considered--food, companionship, security. Potioncat From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 03:34:52 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:34:52 -0000 Subject: Spell check and IE / Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Back to the gibberish in posts, this particular post came out fine, > even the apostrophe. Maybe it's only quotation marks that cause the > problem. If so, turning off "Smart quotes" in Word might solve the > problem. > > What do you have the character encoding set to? (Look under "Character > encoding" in the View menu at the top of the page in your Web > browser--IE or Firefox or Netscape if you're obstinate like me.) > Tonks: Someone, as in a tec person, I think somewhere in India, or maybe it was the nice man in Iceland, told me awhile back to set it for Unicode. I forgot why, but there was some important reason at the time. I use IE, 6. I don't like change. (that might be a clue to my politics this year too.) I know half the programs I have now don't like IE6, but the other half don't like IE7. And Firefox is just.. well.. too much like CHANGE. Tonks_op who only like to change her hair color.. From n2fgc at arrl.net Sat Jul 26 03:36:23 2008 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:36:23 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77FB0B0B0DCA4F18B91E4B16F38FF942@FRODO> | [> Carol]: | > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about | coupons | > for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, | either. | > Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to | > Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot | > of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? [Lee]: There are still places where one needs a dish or something because there's no cable and antennas won't work, but, for the rest, it depends on what they will be happy with. Cable will still have tings the regular broadcast bands won't. Of course, with the state of TV programs nowadays, it's probably no great loss. [Carrol]: | > And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) [Lee]: Uh--Walmart, actually. :-) The coupons are for $40.00 each and there are converter boxes that run at the same price which means all you may have to pay is tax. | Annemehr: | Yep, we're in the US (in the Pittsburgh TV market). | | Lots of questions answered here: | | http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#converter | | The first question regarding converter boxes tells you where to go to | get your coupons. | | (The bit about the free coupons running out may turn out to be a | false rumor -- it was something my husband heard somewhere. But this | site says every household gets two). [Lee]: Amazingly, there are still a lot of people who are unaware of the whole change-over thing. I've seen commercials for it on some channels, mostly the broadcast band ones. The Cable Only channels don't carry much on the subject, probably because the cable people will do to the others what they did to me...send me a note that says I'm going to lose channels as of such-and-such date and need to contact them for a new digital box which I can have free for a year and then pay through the teeth for. I'm now in possession of their box and will hurry and get mine when my coupons come in. In this way, I can have my cable without paying for their I/O and digital box. Cheers, Lee :-) From annemehr at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 03:46:44 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:46:44 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > > > Annemehr: > > > I just use IE, but it has a Google toolbar with a spellcheck button > > that works when you type into any web form, including posting here on > > webview. > > > Potioncat: > Well, my earlier post looks pretty stupid now. I hadn't seen that > IE/Firefox had been brought up. (I'll blame it on the wine.) > > But, how do you get the Google toolbar that lets you spell check in IE? > Annemehr: Speaking of looking stupid, I really can't remember how I wound up with a Google toolbar -- it might have simply appeared when I chose Google as my main search engine (and I don't even know why I did that!). But anyway, if you go here: http://www.google.com/intl/en/options/ and scroll down to nearly the bottom, on the left-hand side there is a link to add the toolbar to your browser. I didn't click it, because I didn't want to risk changing anything on the toolbar I already have. The thing I like best on it is the highlighter -- when you've done a search, it lets you highlight all your search terms on the page, in different colors. This is handy when they are buried in a huge long page of text. Annemehr From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 03:48:41 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:48:41 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Carol responds: > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons > for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. > Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to > Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot > of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? > > And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) > Tonks: I got a coupon and one for a friend who really didn't need it because she has cable. But I lost mine and she gave me her's and it is expired. I think you can still get them, but they expire within 90 days of the time you apply. I hope I can still get a free one. I am happy to hear that we might be able to get a few more stations. But it is not the same as cable. It only lets those of us with rabbit ears to still use our old TV's after the switchover. By the way, as to cutting and pasting with IE. You copy with Control C and paste with Control V. But my IE6 goes all wacky when I type anything into the address bar so I have to do it the sneeky way and make it a search and find it that way. Also I have not cleared my cookies in some time so I can just get most places I want from the drop down box. Oh, great... now I am looking for the spell check, like at YA. I wrote to Yahoo and said why isn't there one like someone said there was on the Google toolbar and they told me I can use the one in the e-mail.. like I didn't know that.. Tonks_op From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 03:58:30 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:58:30 -0000 Subject: Terminus in Chicago Message-ID: Anyone here going to Terminus? I know that our birthday elf is going. Anyone else? Tonks_op From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 04:16:19 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:16:19 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > Potioncat: > Well, there's preparing for short-term natural disasters and there's preparing for man-made disasters. It sounds like you're thinking of the latter. From my point of view, which could be wrong, a safe room would be a place in your home that would be safest in the case of an emergency. A bomb shelter would a place built to protect the residents from hostile action. > > Did the FEMA web site address bomb shelters? "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is an old joke, but I'd want to know exactly what I wanted before I trusted a builder to tell me what I needed. > > I wonder how you would know when to come out of a personal bomb > shelter? What if the bomb shelter was in your basement and the house fell down on top of it. How would you get out? > > Not making a point, just curious. > > Also thinking, that based on what members have suggested, is it > possible the pyramids were safe rooms? They had the sorts of items > we've considered--food, companionship, security. Tonks: Pyramids as safe rooms is a very interesting point. I have always wondered about the idea of going into the basement for a tornado too. I would like to know what you would do if the house fell in and you were trapped there. I have had that concern too. What I am talking about when I say a 'safe room' is what FEMA is advising builders to put in all new houses, at least in Michigan. (And, no it was not a builder who told me.) After listening to people on this list, I now realize that it might not be the same advice in all parts of the country. I have been trying to avoid saying how I came to have this information. There has been a lot of discussion about what to do in the event of a dirty bomb or some other terroist attack. And there are people in my area, richer than me, who have these room in their basements. I have not seen one yet, but I understand that they have a special air filtration system and a vault like, air tight door. The people who have them are planning to use them for a nuke attack. Personally I don't want to go into a basement unless I have some other people with me. If I am going to die, I want to be with friends. And I do NOT want to be in some government community shelter!! We all saw what a nightmare that was with Katrina. Tonks_op From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Sat Jul 26 06:34:08 2008 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:34:08 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/25/2008 5:01:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alexisnguyen @gmail.com writes: If you have cable that uses a cable box, there is no need for you to run out to get a converter. You're very correct in that the cable company will be converting the signals for you. (I honestly don't know how it works for folks whose cable doesn't require the use of a box, but even my parents in KS can't get that kind of cable anymore, not that they're in any place particularly rural.) Sandy: I live in a small township within the city of Cincinnati, OH and I have cable but do not have a box. My cable is literally that; a cable coming in from outside that runs, in my case, into the VCR. I am not willing to bite the expense to upgrade to digital cable which requires the box. According to Time Warner I will receive a digital signal through the cable once the conversion takes place next year despite the fact that I don't have digital cable. I want to believe this, but I have my doubts, so it's a wait and see situation. But I have it covered because I bought a digital television back in December. They brought them in for the holidays where I work and gave employees a discount, so I got it for a very good price. I put the analog only television back in the bedroom with the DVD player hooked into it. I don't think I will ever understand the analog/digital thing. I'm too old to deal with these kinds of changes. But one way or the other I have it covered. Sandy **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Sat Jul 26 07:01:05 2008 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:01:05 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/25/2008 4:16:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, justcarol67 at yahoo.com writes: Carol responds: In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) Carol, more confused than ever about the switchover Sandy: I found out about the converters and free coupons after I bought a digital television, but that's okay because I wanted a second television and I sure don't need yet another piece of electronic equipment cluttering things up. My friend got the request form for the converter coupon from HH Gregg, and that is where he got the converter after he got the coupon. You can get the converter just about anywhere they sell electronics. Since you have a cable box you won't need it. Cable isn't going anywhere. The digital format will increase the number of channels you can get locally but cable channels will remain cable channels that you can only get through a cable or satellite provider. Channels like A&E, HGTV, History, Lifetime, etc. I am thoroughly confused by it all too. What really irks me is that this is government mandated. Doesn't the government have better things to attend to than how we get our television reception? Sandy **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tfaucette6387 at charter.net Sat Jul 26 08:11:31 2008 From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:11:31 -0000 Subject: Film Locations, for movie buffs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "potioncat" wrote: > Potioncat---who's going to check out "The Quiet Man" which I always > thought looked like Salinas and Big Sur. > Anne Squires: According to the Extras section of "The Quiet Man" DVD it was filmed in and around the village of Cong, County Mayo and on the grounds of Cong's Ashford Castle. There is an interview with one of John Wayne's children who talks about going on the shoot to Ireland with his dad. There is also mention of the fact that the village got electricity for the first time during the shoot. Everyone was celebrating until they discovered they had to pay for it; then they wanted it taken out. About "Lassie, Come Home." I don't know, but I wonder if it had to be filmed in the US because it was made at the height of WWII in 1943. I mean I don't know if that was an issue or not; but, maybe? From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jul 26 12:18:19 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:18:19 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks_op wrote in : << Personally I don't want to go into a basement unless I have some other people with me. If I am going to die, I want to be with friends. And I do NOT want to be in some government community shelter!! We all saw what a nightmare that was with Katrina. >> A basement is the LAST place you want to be during Katrina. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jul 26 12:20:48 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:20:48 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sandy wrote in : << Doesn't the government have better things to attend to than how we get our television reception? >> It's because the government allocates the wavelengths for electromagnetic spectrum broadcasting - When I first saw a chart of which wavelengths are allocated for which type of broadcast, the only types were AM radio, FM radio, Television, Police Radio, and CB radio. Ham radio must have been in there somewhere. But I saw one of those charts about ten years ago and it was divided into so many little pieces that I couldn't even read them all, like for cell phones and for satellite-to-earth communication and for wireless LANs and so on. That was a digression. My point is that the government allocated frequencies to all the TV broadcast stations for free on the theory that they broadcast 'in the public interest'. Then they allocated all those stations more frequencies, for free, so they could start digital broadcasting without having to stop analog broadcasting first. Now the government wants its frequencies (the ones allocated to analog TV) back, so it can auction them off for those kinds of uses that didn't exist back in the 1970s and get some money. From marion11111 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 14:36:11 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:36:11 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did somebody say their parents are already using the convertor box? My mom has two that I bought her with the coupons, but I thought we had to wait until next February to hook them up. If they really are working now, I'll stop over to her place this week and set her up. And Carol, I can't beleive you missed all those ads on TV. They showed them nearly every hour on network television. They generally showed a senior citizen talking about how next February the government will convert all signals to digital, etc. etc. I bet you can still get the coupons - just do a Google search for TV convertor box. You sign up and can have up to two coupons sent to your address, then pick up the box at Radio Shack or Best Buy. --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Annemehr: > > My parents don't have cable, and they got a converter free with the > coupon the government was sending out (but there was a limited supply > of those coupons -- they're probably all gone by now). > > > > In any case, the converter is much, much cheaper than cable, and my > mom and dad tell me they pull in more local channels than they ever > did with regular analog -- and the reception is absolutely perfect for > each of them. > > > > Of course, what channels anyone would get would depend on where they > live. > > Carol responds: > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons > for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. > Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to > Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot > of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? > > And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) > > Carol, more confused than ever about the switchover > From kempermentor at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 14:39:47 2008 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:39:47 -0000 Subject: Digital converters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons > for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. > Do you mean that the cable companies will all go broke or change to > Internet providers because no one will need their services and a lot > of people spent money on satellite dishes for nothing? > > And where can I buy a converter box? (Radio Shack?) Kemper now: My understanding of the switch is to free up some analog channels to first responders. It's a fix after the communication inadequacies of 9/11. My area had ads about the coupons earlier this year. Here's a link: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/ Kemper From specialcritters at hotmail.com Sat Jul 26 14:48:53 2008 From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:48:53 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just ordered 2 coupons yesterday, so they definitely still have them. A friend was telling me today that she went back to her old system because her area has only a couple of digital channels, so you might want to check before you leave if you're hooking up somebody who's technologically challenged. EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.comFrom: marion11111 at yahoo.comDate: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:36:11 +0000Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Did somebody say their parents are already using the convertor box? My mom has two that I bought her with the coupons, but I thought we had to wait until next February to hook them up. If they really are working now, I'll stop over to her place this week and set her up.| Unsubscribe Recent Activity 3 New MembersVisit Your Group Only on Yahoo! World of Star Wars Meet fans, watch videos & more. Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Popular Y! Groups Is your group one? Check it out and see. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bboyminn at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 16:10:48 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:10:48 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Carol" wrote: > > bboyminn; > > > > Just so we are clear this ONLY WORKS with the numeric > > keypad on the right hand side of your keyboard. > > > > ... > > Carol responds: > ... > > So here goes (turning NumLock on temporarily): > > ? ? Okay, it works, sort of. That first character was intended > to be a pound sign. I guess I forgot the code. > > ... Is there a website that lists these codes in case I ever > need a pound sign or a cent sign? > > Carol, whose business is slowing down because people consider > copyediting to be a luxury in a tight economy > bboyminn: The Internet is your friend. ANSI Character Table http://www.handheld-basic.com/documentation/text/page_599.html Use the decimal number for the 'ALT' codes. Also - ANSI Symbol Fonts- http://cloford.com/resources/charcodes/symbols.htm I only use a few of them, so as I said, I printed them in a small font and taped it to the edge of my monitor. Cent - Alt 0162 Pound - Alt 0163 Euro - Alt 0128 and if you think you might need it - Yen - Alt 0165 The simple programmer's text editor I have is called - TextPad Ver 4.7.3 http://www.textpad.com/ It is an excellent text editor, and has side tables for ANSI coded, DOS code (which are similar to ANSI but slightly different), HTML Character Codes, HTML Tags, and SMS texting codes (LOL laugh out loud, HAND have a nice day, etc...) As to Copyediting falling out of fashion in hard economic times...REALLY? So, crappy books are going to sell better than well edited books? I don't think so. Steve/bboyminn ? From bboyminn at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 16:28:15 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:28:15 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Carol" wrote: > > > bboyminn: > > > > ..., so really it's only two channels. > > > > That's what I get for free here in the USA, meaning two > > commercial free channels (PBS), though today's PBS can > > hardly be called commerial free. > > Carol responds: > > Not for long. On February 19, 2009 ..., you'll no longer be > able to view TV free using rabbit ears. That's the date > when all the stations will change from analog to digital. > > I've been told that I won't need a converter because the > cable company will convert the signal through my cable box. > I hope that's the case because I certainly don't want to > buy a converter--or a new TV. > > Carol, remembering the old days when (almost) every house > had a TV antenna > bboyminn: Your cable company will convert the signal for you, but think what that means. It means that the cable company is not, and probably will not until forced to, sending digital quality signals through it's cable. My brother just quit cable and switch to digital quality satellite and the difference is amazing. We watched 'Hairspray' on his !BIG! screen TV and it was fantastic. The community my brother lives in foolishly signed a 25 year exclusive contract with the local cable company, so there is no incentive for them to innovate because they have the market locked up for 25 years. Steve/bluewizard From tonks_op at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 18:07:39 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:07:39 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just have to have a place to bitch about the converter box thing. Leave it to the government!! What a stupid way to administer a program. Who are they working for anyway? Walmart?? Here is how it works. I heard about it back the early part of the year. I sent for it. I signed a friend up too. I lost mine somewhere in my apartment. She didn't need hers. The #@!%(**&# things EXPIRE 90 days TO THE DAY after they are issued. Not at the end of a month, but some date exactly 90 days after you call or push the button on the Internet. Back in March when her's was expiring she gave it to me and told me to go get it before the end of the month. BUT the thing expired, not at the end of the month but one day before the end. I was busy.. I missed the date by one day. WalMart would not take it. I can not get another one. I just tried on the net. The government knows who I am and told me "two have already been issued for your household". *(&(&^$#@^(*(#$!!!!!!!!!!! Now I will have to BUY a #$@$%%##@@^^&$$@@!!!!!! box. And they say it can not be extented if your expired. Why I ask can't the govenment just make them all expire on the same day, at the end of January, 2009. or even the end of 2008? No.. they spend all of this money on advertising on the TV, printing the plastic cards.. and for what??? SO half of us can throw them away and pay $40.00 for the box anyway. Screw them... I just will not watch TV anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF you want something to be screwed up, just put a government agency in charge of it!!! You would think that by now the goverment would understand the people. We all wait till April 15th to do our taxes. We will all wait till the last day to get our boxes, just before we need them. How come they can't figure that out? I know, I know.. they don't want a run on the stores... but still... they should know us by now. Tonks_op From kempermentor at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 18:50:44 2008 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:50:44 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks: > I just have to have a place to bitch about the converter box thing. > Leave it to the government!! What a stupid way to administer a > program. Who are they working for anyway? Walmart?? > > ...I missed the date by one day. WalMart would not > take it. I can not get another one. I just tried on the net. The > government knows who I am and told me "two have already been issued > for your household". *(&(&^$#@^(*(#$!!!!!!!!!!! Now I will have to > BUY a #$@$%%##@@^^&$$@@!!!!!! box. And they say it can not be > extented if your expired. Kemper now: WalMart is horrible. Support someone local. Ask a neighbor if they need they'll need their converter box (you don't need one if you have an up to date tv). If they don't need it or if you have family/friends that don't need it, ask if you can use their name/mailing address to order one/two. It isn't immoral nor unethical. Imao. > Tonks: > ...You would think that by now the goverment would > understand the people. ... > We will all wait till the last day to get our boxes, just before we > need them. How come they can't figure that out? I know, I know.. > they don't want a run on the stores... but still... they should know > us by now. Kemper now: We should change from a reactionary society to one of reflection and response. That is not the governments job. Again, jmao :) Kemper From tfaucette6387 at charter.net Sat Jul 26 19:11:39 2008 From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:11:39 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Tonks wrote: > > IF you want something to be screwed up, just put a government agency > in charge of it!!! You would think that by now the goverment would > understand the people. We all wait till April 15th to do our taxes. > We will all wait till the last day to get our boxes, just before we > need them. How come they can't figure that out? I know, I know.. > they don't want a run on the stores... but still... they should know > us by now. > > Tonks_op > Anne Squires: Sister, I feel your pain. In the county where I live you have to pay your ad valorem (tag sticker) on your car on or before your birthday. They mail out your bill about six weeks before your birthday. You are not allowed to pay before you get your statement because...? Well, I'm not sure why. I think they want the money to come in at a steady pace or something. Anyhow, until last year I thought the deadline was the end of the month of your birth, not your precise birthday. I, like you indicated that most people do, waited until the last minute. My birthday is August 29th and I was thinking that I had until August 31st to pay my tax. I didn't have time on the 29th; so I went by on the 30th. They charged me a thirty dollar late fee!!!! I was 24 hours late!!!! And, of course, they would not waive the fee or reduce it or anything when I explained that I had thought that I had until the end of the month. I bet some people are really late paying this. But no, there is a flat late fee for everyone. Nothing graduated or pro rated or whatever. This year I paid as soon as the bill came. Anne Squires From bumbledor at comcast.net Sat Jul 26 19:51:07 2008 From: bumbledor at comcast.net (bumbledor) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:51:07 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable References: Message-ID: <000801c8ef58$f1ff2590$6401a8c0@hogwarts> From: "Tonks" >I just have to have a place to bitch about the converter box thing. > Leave it to the government!! What a stupid way to administer a > program. Who are they working for anyway? Walmart?? > > Here is how it works. I heard about it back the early part of the > year. I sent for it. I signed a friend up too. I lost mine somewhere > in my apartment. She didn't need hers. The #@!%(**&# things EXPIRE > 90 days TO THE DAY after they are issued. Not at the end of a month, > but some date exactly 90 days after you call or push the button on > the Internet. Back in March when her's was expiring she gave it to > me and told me to go get it before the end of the month. BUT the > thing expired, not at the end of the month but one day before the > end. I was busy.. I missed the date by one day. WalMart would not > take it. I can not get another one. I just tried on the net. The > government knows who I am and told me "two have already been issued > for your household". *(&(&^$#@^(*(#$!!!!!!!!!!! Now I will have to > BUY a #$@$%%##@@^^&$$@@!!!!!! box. And they say it can not be > extented if your expired. > > Why I ask can't the govenment just make them all expire on the same > day, at the end of January, 2009. or even the end of 2008? No.. they > spend all of this money on advertising on the TV, printing the > plastic cards.. and for what??? SO half of us can throw them away > and pay $40.00 for the box anyway. Screw them... I just will not > watch TV anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > IF you want something to be screwed up, just put a government agency > in charge of it!!! You would think that by now the goverment would > understand the people. We all wait till April 15th to do our taxes. > We will all wait till the last day to get our boxes, just before we > need them. How come they can't figure that out? I know, I know.. > they don't want a run on the stores... but still... they should know > us by now. > > Tonks_op Got a better idea for you. Forget the stupid thing, stop watching TV for a few months and let your brain cells relax for a bit. 3 months after the switch over, the prices will drop dramaticaly. Heck, I got rid of my old tube tv, and haven't had one for months. I won't pay 1,000 for a good sized Flat screen (I need 42 inches or bigger). So I'm going to wait untill the prices drop after the change over, when there is a glut of systems for sale. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jul 27 00:53:52 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:53:52 -0000 Subject: Go v't Stupidity /was: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "anne_t_squires" wrote in : << In the county where I live you have to pay your ad valorem (tag sticker) on your car on or before your birthday. They mail out your bill about six weeks before your birthday. You are not allowed to pay before you get your statement because...? Well, I'm not sure why. I think they want the money to come in at a steady pace or something. >> I sympathize with everyone about weird due dates. I speculate that the reason they won't you pay before you get your bill is that they have a stupid computer system with no ability to query a customer record by anything except Customer ID, an arbitrary number which is printed on the bill. So they can't data-enter your payment without your Customer ID, which either they get from you sending back your bill with your payment or they keep a hardcopy of in a physical file by birthday and hand-search all the documents for the customer's birthday until they find one that matches the customer' name and address, and searching a whole month of hard copies would take 30 times as long as searching one days' worth. One upon a time in the early 1980s, a friend of mine had a painfully stupid job in the New York City government's payroll department. He was part of a group that hand-copied numbers from a green-bar report onto keypunch entry sheets to be given to keypunchers to punch into IBM cards that would be entered into the next fortnight's payroll run. I suppose they were the Year To Date totals. Over two dozen jobs (data entry clerks and key punch operators) could have been eliminated if the computer system sent that report to a mag tape insted of a printer and read that input from a mag tape instead of cards. Besides changing the JCL cards that specify the devices, the output program would need a small change to remove all that program logic to count lines on a page, print page headers at page breaks, and so on. My friend explained to me that the above had been the original plan, but the project ran out of money just before making that improvement. This same friend had previously worked as an interviewer for Social Security. All his colleagues interviewed applicants without taking notes and wrote up the interviews from memory at home at night and had enough errors in the write-ups that the applicants had to be called back for a new interview at least once, often more. My friend took notes while interviewing and used the notes while writing up the interviews at home at night and all his write-ups were accurate and complete enough that none of the people he interviewed had to be called back for another interview. So his supervisor ordered him to stop wasting time taking notes so he could complete as MANY interviews a day as his colleagues. He objected that his interviews might take longer but they were better interviews that never required calling the applicant back for another interview. The supervisor shouted at him, approximately: "You idiot! Don't you understand that I want this office to be rated the most efficient office in the agency, and they rate efficiency based on the NUMBER of interviews we do every month, not the number of applicants that have to be called back." My friend was soon thereafter fired for insubordination. He had written a sarcastic song about that supervisor which his colleagues liked. But that particular piece of idiocy is not just the government. I've heard of publically-traded corporations making a similar mistake, judging their workers on the wrong criteria. Perhaps the most famous is Tech Support or other call centers that rate workers on how few seconds they spend on each phone call rather than how few seconds they spend on each *problem* as the customers keep calling back with the same problem and ever more frustration. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Jul 27 15:11:08 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:11:08 -0000 Subject: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks: > What I am talking about when I say a 'safe room' is what FEMA is > advising builders to put in all new houses, at least in Michigan. > (And, no it was not a builder who told me.) After listening to > people on this list, I now realize that it might not be the same > advice in all parts of the country. Potioncat: I looked on the FEMA website which does address saferooms. I scanned over the material on the site, but did not go the links to the more detailed information. So it does look like FEMA is suggesting saferooms in new construction. Again, the purpose of the safe room is short term to protect against the house falling in. There are structural guidelines and also other evironmental considerations. Such as flooding. There is also some generic information about protecting against radiation, but it doesn't involve a bomb shelter. Tonks: There has been a lot of > discussion about what to do in the event of a dirty bomb or some > other terroist attack. And there are people in my area, richer than > me, who have these room in their basements. I have not seen one yet, > but I understand that they have a special air filtration system and > a vault like, air tight door. The people who have them are planning > to use them for a nuke attack. Personally I don't want to go into a > basement unless I have some other people with me. If I am going to > die, I want to be with friends. And I do NOT want to be in some > government community shelter!! We all saw what a nightmare that was > with Katrina. Potioncat: Yeah, but eventually the nightmare was over. I would rather take my chances with a group, than hope I had everthing right by myself. Besides, what's going to happen when it's time to come out of the shelter? There will still be the issue of getting safe food/water and avoiding contamination. I think each of us should be as prepared as we reasonably can be. That's probably more for some than others. Potioncat From s_ings at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 15:15:48 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Terminus in Chicago In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <708288.72162.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Tonks wrote: > Anyone here going to Terminus? I know that our birthday elf > is going. > Anyone else? > Sheryll: Excellent question! Would love to find out if more HPFGU people will be there. Always up for meeting fellow list members and putting faces to names. Maybe we could organise a meal together or something. I'm really looking forward to this conference. It's put on by the same people who did Phoenix Rising and I had a blast there. Sheryll __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From s_ings at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 15:45:49 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Belated Happy Birthdays, Meg and pgr! Message-ID: <322683.91364.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com> *dashes around the party room, dragging the boxes of decorations and hastily hanging streamers and blowing up balloons* I'm late, I'm late! Yeah, like that's a surprise to anyone. *sheepish grin* Birthday honourees for Friday were pgr and Meg. Belated birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to Meg: mdemeran at hotmail.com and pgr: azakitpgr at yahoo.co.uk We need a few things to make this party happen, so excuse me for just a moment. Here we go! *produces an abundance of nibblies, a well-stocked bar and two towering cakes* Does someone what to take charge of the music? I'd do it myself but I'm actually heading out to a RL birthday celebration. My daughter and a friend share a birthday and we're celebrating a couple days early. I hope you both had marvelous days, filled with good friends, good food and many happy memories! Happy Birthday, Meg! Happy Birthday, pgr! Sheryll the Birthday Elf __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 27 17:40:57 2008 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 27 Jul 2008 17:40:57 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 7/27/2008, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1217180457.10.93663.m44@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday July 27, 2008 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2008 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 19:26:38 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:26:38 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Annemehr wrote: > I used to use Netscape all the time, until I kept running into problems on different sites I wanted to use -- particularly Yahoo mail. The (one?) advantage of IE is that everything works in it. > > To copy and paste, I use the mouse (just seems easier to me). Carol: Thanks. I do know how to cut/copy and paste using a mouse. I do it all the time in editing. But you can't cut-and-paste a URL into the address block in IE as you can in Netscape without using some sort of function key. Or, at any rate, *I* can't because of the way IE is set up. Okay, I tried it just now and realized that it *can* be done using the cut-and-paste icons (rather than the edit menu, which I use in Netscape). I had to add those buttons to the menu and delete some that I didn't want. But now the toolbars themselves keep disappearing from the page, just rolling out of sight instead of staying put as they do in Netscape. I even clicked "Lock Toolbars" and they still slipped away. Just one more reason that I hate IE. As you say, the *one* advantage of IE is that sites designed to work with IE sometimes don't work in other browsers, especially the older Netscape versions. If I need to use an application requiring the latest version of Java or Flash (which I do have installed but which won't work in Netscape 7.2), I just go to Netscape 9 (though I still prefer 7.2 for most things because of the way the toolbars are set up). Occasionally, even Netscape 9 won't work. If, for example, if I need an upgrade to Word or Windows, I have no choice but to use IE. But when I'm through with the download, I go right back to my default browser, netscape 7.2. I don't have any problems with Yahoo mail in Netscape because I've turned off all the fancy features and just use plain text. (I have a "real" e-mail address for business e-mail.) Carol, who has never encountered the rolling toolbar before and finds it frustrating From marion11111 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 19:39:31 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:39:31 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: marion11111 trying to grasp all this: Well, my mother is most certainly techniologically challenged and now I'm beginning to think I might be too. So, some areas are already broadcasting digital signals over the air and these can be picked up with the box, but if most channels are still analog then the box will screw them up? Did I understand correctly? Arrgh. Like someone said - leave it to the government to make it REALLY complicated. Of course, I bought the boxes already due to the (false) scare that they might run out and then with the 90 day expiration, etc. My mother, being of the Depression Era generation, was actaully concerned about my buying these boxes already in case she dies before February!!!! No, she does not have a terminal illness. Really, this is the generation that is going to get caught in this whole mess since they are too frugal to pay for cable or buy a fancy new TV when the old one works just fine. In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Lee Truslow wrote: > > > I just ordered 2 coupons yesterday, so they definitely still have them. A friend was telling me today that she went back to her old system because her area has only a couple of digital channels, so you might want to check before you leave if you're hooking up somebody who's technologically challenged. > > > marion11111 at ...: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:36:11 +0000Subject: [HPFGU- OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? > > > > > Did somebody say their parents are already using the convertor box? My mom has two that I bought her with the coupons, but I thought we had to wait until next February to hook them up. If they really are working now, I'll stop over to her place this week and set her up.| Unsubscribe > > > From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 19:42:44 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:42:44 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about coupons for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, either. Annemehr responded: > Yep, we're in the US (in the Pittsburgh TV market). > > Lots of questions answered here: > > http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#converter > > The first question regarding converter boxes tells you where to go to get your coupons. > > (The bit about the free coupons running out may turn out to be a > false rumor -- it was something my husband heard somewhere. But this > site says every household gets two). > Carol again: I followed the links on the site you mentioned and discovered that it's not a false rumor--it's just too early to get the coupons. Here's the info" "How do I request a coupon? Between January 1, 2008 and March 31, 2009, you can request a coupon while supplies last in one of four ways: " * Apply online * Call the Coupon Program 24-hour hotline 1-888-DTV-2009 (1-888-388-2009). * Mail a coupon application to: PO BOX 2000, Portland, OR 97208-2000. Download a Coupon Application here. * Fax a coupon application to 1-877-DTV-4ME2 (1-877-388-4632) * Deaf or hard of hearing callers may dial 1-877-530-2634 (English/TTY) or 1-866-495-1161 (Spanish/TTY). TTY Service is available from 9 AM - 9 PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday." >From https://www.dtv2009.gov/Options.aspx Other information is provided on the first page of the site, https://www.dtv2009.gov/AboutProgram.aspx A third page allows you to apply for the coupons online or download an application to mail or fax. Apparently, people who currently subscribe to cable or another subscription service are eligible for the coupons. People with rabbit ears definitely are. Carol, glad to know about this program and wishing it were better publicized! From marion11111 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 21:39:45 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:39:45 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think you misread - it started in January of 2008 and goes until March of next year. I already used the coupons so I know they work. --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Carol earlier: > > > In the U.S., do you mean? Wonder why no one ever told me about > coupons for free converters! No one else of my acquaintance has them, > either. > > Annemehr responded: > > Yep, we're in the US (in the Pittsburgh TV market). > > > > Lots of questions answered here: > > > > http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#converter > > > > The first question regarding converter boxes tells you where to go > to get your coupons. > > > > (The bit about the free coupons running out may turn out to be a > > false rumor -- it was something my husband heard somewhere. But this > > site says every household gets two). > > > Carol again: > > I followed the links on the site you mentioned and discovered that > it's not a false rumor--it's just too early to get the coupons. Here's > the info" > > "How do I request a coupon? > Between January 1, 2008 and March 31, 2009, you can request a coupon > while supplies last in one of four ways: > > " * Apply online > * Call the Coupon Program 24-hour hotline 1-888-DTV-2009 > (1-888-388-2009). > * Mail a coupon application to: PO BOX 2000, Portland, OR > 97208-2000. Download a Coupon Application here. > * Fax a coupon application to 1-877-DTV-4ME2 (1-877-388-4632) > * Deaf or hard of hearing callers may dial 1-877-530-2634 > (English/TTY) or 1-866-495-1161 (Spanish/TTY). TTY Service is > available from 9 AM - 9 PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday." > > From https://www.dtv2009.gov/Options.aspx > > Other information is provided on the first page of the site, > > https://www.dtv2009.gov/AboutProgram.aspx > > A third page allows you to apply for the coupons online or download an > application to mail or fax. > > Apparently, people who currently subscribe to cable or another > subscription service are eligible for the coupons. People with rabbit > ears definitely are. > > Carol, glad to know about this program and wishing it were better > publicized! > From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Sun Jul 27 21:41:59 2008 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:41:59 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Carol, glad to know about this program and wishing it were better > publicized! Ali: Interesting... at least with where I live (Philadelphia), I used to see mentions of this program everywhere. I used to get up early enough to watch some of the morning shows before work, and there was always a small segment on this program, which means there were segments of this very often since I can only tolerate 15 minutes or so of any morning program (something about extremely perky people who have been up since 5am bothers me that early in the morning). Is this not true in other parts of the country? marion11111: > Well, my mother is most certainly techniologically challenged and > now I'm beginning to think I might be too. So, some areas are > already broadcasting digital signals over the air and these can be > picked up with the box, but if most channels are still analog then > the box will screw them up? Did I understand correctly? Arrgh. > Like someone said - leave it to the government to make it REALLY > complicated. Ali: Just pretend you didn't hear anything. :) Trust me, chances are good (though not 100%) that your box will work as built and that you'll be able to pick up all the requisite channels just fine. Besides, it's not like we're all going to be 2/8 and wake up on 2/9 with the world totally different - a load of experts are predicting the change to be fairly gradual. And let me throw out the seemingly unpopular opinion that I'm in full support of this move towards digital signals and opening up a new playing field. (Frankly, I'd be happier had Google and not Verizon won [sort of] the bid for the bands that the government auctioned off, but at least C Block is forcing open networks the chance to become reality instead of a complete pipe dream.) I've got a lot of criticism for the US government, but in this one instance, I support the move (just like I'd be one of the few who would support the move to the metric system - still don't understand the imperial system, personally). I'm crazy, I know. Besides, it's not like the change is a complete surprise. The government auction was huge news, for one. More importantly, for anyone who has bought a TV in the past few years (like me), they very likely came with stickers that makes it difficult to ignore the fact that the move to digital program was happening. Sometimes, there isn't a choice and you have to be forced into change instead of being eased - though I do understand how that can cause anger in many people, as constantly reminded to me by work's recent change to a new DMS. ~Ali, who is fighting a migraine (with the help of medicine) at the moment so hopes that folks will forgive any glaring errors left in her email PS As far as I understand it, there is much rumblings about how there's going to be changes to that 90 days expiration thing. I don't know that anything will come of it before we come much closer to the due dates, but the officials that I've seen [that has been sent on TV] have all mentioned the 90 days expiration and that there is talks of making easier for people somehow. From marion11111 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 21:54:30 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:54:30 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "P. Alexis Nguyen" wrote: > > Besides, it's not like the change is a complete surprise. The > government auction was huge news, for one. More importantly, for > anyone who has bought a TV in the past few years (like me), they very > likely came with stickers that makes it difficult to ignore the fact > that the move to digital program was happening. Well I suppose so, but I haven't bought a new TV for years and certainly my frugal senior citizen mother hasn't. I don't need bigger or flatter and, honestly, TV sets never seem to break. DVD players break, but never TVs. I think the change is complicated for people on very fixed incomes who have no desire (or means)to go to cable or to buy a new TV and I guess I wonder how necessary it is to have "better" Tv over the air when anybody who cares about "better" Tv is already getting it through cable. From kempermentor at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 23:29:53 2008 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:29:53 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Marrion: > ...I think the change is complicated for people on > very fixed incomes who have no desire (or means)to go to cable or to > buy a new TV and I guess I wonder how necessary it is to have "better" > Tv over the air when anybody who cares about "better" Tv is already > getting it through cable. Kemper now: The government could care less about you or me receiving 'better' tv. Again, the US government is using it to free up the (radio?) spectrum in order to make communication easier for first responders (for public safety). Of course, the switch is being done across the world which makes the conspiratorist in me wary. But the rationalist in me is relaxed. Kemper From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jul 28 01:20:09 2008 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 01:20:09 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "marion11111" wrote in : > honestly, TV sets never seem to break. DVD players break, > but never TVs. I can't agree that TV sets seem never to break. The only times in my life when I've bought a new TV was because the old one broke. Unless you count buying a used tiny TV at a yard sale because the price was so good. The tiny TV (which also plays radio) is on a shelf in the kitchen so Tim can't use 'but my TV show is on!' as an excuse not to wash the dishes. It will need to be replaced or something after this digitalization thing occurs. I have yet to play a DVD player, so I don't know how often they break. Lee has a radio that plays just the sound, not the picture, of TV. Does anyone know whether that will be changed by the digitalization? From annemehr at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 01:26:50 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 01:26:50 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > Thanks. I do know how to cut/copy and paste using a mouse. I do it all > the time in editing. But you can't cut-and-paste a URL into the > address block in IE as you can in Netscape without using some sort of > function key. Or, at any rate, *I* can't because of the way IE is set up. > > Okay, I tried it just now and realized that it *can* be done using the > cut-and-paste icons (rather than the edit menu, which I use in > Netscape). I had to add those buttons to the menu and delete some that > I didn't want. But now the toolbars themselves keep disappearing from > the page, just rolling out of sight instead of staying put as they do > in Netscape. I even clicked "Lock Toolbars" and they still slipped > away. Just one more reason that I hate IE. Annemehr: I'm not sure what you mean by cut-and-paste "icons." Just to be clear, after I highlight something I want to copy, I click on the highlighted section with the right mouse button, and a menu pops up right there. I choose "copy" from it. To paste, I click the cursor (with the left mouse button) wherever I want to paste the selection (which might be the address bar), and then click with the right mouse button again to bring up the menu, and choose "paste." But there are no icons involved, nor toolbars or function keys. I'm using IE7, and I've never had any trouble with toolbars rolling away (nor in any of the previous versions), so I can't help you there. Carol: > I don't have any problems with Yahoo mail in Netscape because I've > turned off all the fancy features and just use plain text. (I have a > "real" e-mail address for business e-mail.) There, see -- I like lots of the fancy features, when I'm playing, or when I'm carrying on an intricate conversation with someone (color- coding comes in handy then). Besides, some people would send me mail with smileys in it sometimes, and Netscape just stripped them all out -- I never even knew there was anything missing until I happened to look at one in IE one day. Annemehr, who still, for some reason, can't be bothered to post to groups using Rich-Text Editor, unless there is a long link to be kept whole. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 04:16:08 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:16:08 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges Message-ID: Hi, Rita! I tried to send this message offlist, and I don't want to post it to the main list for reasons expressed in the sig line, so I'll post it here: "Carol" wrote in : << To provide an obvious example, eventually orrected in later editions, Ron's red and gold Prefect badge is described as "identical" to Percy's silver one. Obviously, the badges are *not* identical and the description of one or the other must be changed to make it true. >> Catlady responded: > It was corrected in later editions? Which description was decided to be the real one? Carol again: See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html Apparently that applies only to the British Bloomsbury edition and any translations based on it, not to the American Scholastic edition. Carol, answering offlist because it's a small point and I think I've used up my quota [on the main list] for the day From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 04:21:18 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:21:18 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ali wrote: > Here are the shortcuts you're looking for. The following shortcuts work in the Windows environment (and work on a Mac if you replace the control key with the command > key): > Cut: Ctrl + X > Copy: Ctrl + C > Paste: Ctrl + V Carol responds: Thanks, Ali, but I've found a way I'm more comfortable with (the icons plus the mouse) to cut and past on IE if I have to use it. (I have a PC not a Mac--Macs, laptops, and IE are all qwkward and uncomfortable for me.) Carol, for whom function keys are a reminder of her dissertation-writing days in 1997-98 when we used WordPerfect 4.1! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 04:37:10 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:37:10 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ali wrote: > If you have cable that uses a cable box, there is no need for you to run out to get a converter. You're very correct in that the cable company will be converting the signals for you. > > On the other hand, if you're thinking of getting rid of cable (giving up my Project Runway, Psych, My Boys, etc. shows that come only on cable TV just isn't an option for me), I have a friend who adores the channels she's getting via just antennae. Carol: I was thinking of getting rid of cable to save money if I could get the same channels using rabbit ears (which I'd have to buy) and a converter box, but only if I could get the same channels. If it meant getting only the same channels that people in the same area now get with an antenna, I'll keep the cable box. Sigh! (However, I do know people who don't have cable and will have to switch over, so I'm glad to know about the coupons for their sakes even if it won't help me. Ali: > By the way, as an aside, anyone who wants to have spell check in their browsers without installing the Google toolbar (or switching to a different program) can use an open-source software called Aspell (http://aspell.net/). Carol: Thanks for the info, but I only use spell checks to catch accidental typos in my editing projects (by accidental typos, I mean my own that occur accidentally when I'm editing, not those of my client, for which I'll use a dictionary if I'm in any doubt. For me, a spell check is chiefly useful as a source of amusement when it gives ridiculous suggestions for the word you're trying to spell. (I remember a student of mine writing about "marriages" in the desert when he meant "mirages"!) Carol, who generally knows how to spell the words she uses though her fingers don't always remember how to type them! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 04:47:17 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:47:17 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > First: If you want an easier way to proof your posts, use firefox > instead of EI. I found out when I used by son's computer, that in > that (I don't know the word for what firefox or explorer are) spell > check is available. Carol: Firefox, Netscape, IE, etc. are browsers. > Potioncat: > Second: (someone correct me if I'm wrong) what you see when you send and what someone sees when they open can be different depending on settings. Settings of what, I don't know. Place settings of china I understand. This, I don't. Carol: I think you're talking about text encoding, which I mentioned in another post. I don't know how to check them in IE, but Firefox is just like Netscape in that respect. Click View, then click Character Encoding. A little black ball will mark your current setting. If it's set on Unicode, I suggest changing it to Western. Carol, hoping that's as simple as a five-piece place setting of china From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 05:11:46 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:11:46 -0000 Subject: Historical "safe rooms" Was: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > Also thinking, that based on what members have suggested, is it possible the pyramids were safe rooms? They had the sorts of items we've considered--food, companionship, security. Carol responds: All of which reminds me of Francis, Viscount Lovell. Potioncat knows who he was, but for those of you who don't, he was a supporter and friend of Richard III who (unlike Richard) survived the Battle of Bosworth Field. Two years later (1487), he survived the Battle of Stoke (associated with the Lambert Simnel rebellion against Henry Tudor), only to disappear. (People thought that he had drowned crossing I forget which river.) Many years later, in 1708, the skeleton of a man was found in a secret room at Minster Lovell. Apparently, Francis, twice declared a traitor by Henry VII (whom he obviously had no desire to serve), starved to death in his own basement "safe room" hiding from "the Tydder" (Tudor)! Carol, who expected the Malfoys' secret room to be a "safe room" to hide from the Aurors in, rather safer than Francis Lovell's From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 05:28:50 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:28:50 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Marion wrote: > > And Carol, I can't beleive you missed all those ads on TV. They showed them nearly every hour on network television. They generally showed a senior citizen talking about how next February the government will convert all signals to digital, etc. etc. > > I bet you can still get the coupons - just do a Google search for TV convertor box. You sign up and can have up to two coupons sent to your address, then pick up the box at Radio Shack or Best Buy. > Carol responds: I knew about the ads (the ones I've seen show a cartoon of an old rabbit-ear TV with sweat rolling down its face--er, screen), so I knew about the switchover. It's only the coupons I didn't know about. but then, I only watch certain shows and certain channels, not nearly as much as the average American. I think I use my TV as a DVD player more often than as a TV. I've found out how to get the coupons, but evidently I'm better off just keeping cable (unless I really, really need to cut expenses, in which case, a converter box will be a lot cheaper than a cable bill!) One more question: I have a new TV (bought less than a year ago) but it's an inexpensive model (I didn't need a built-in DVD player and all that). How can I tell whether it's analog or digital? Carol, who really wishes that bureaucracy and technology didn't make slaves of us all! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 05:50:52 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:50:52 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -bboyminn: > > The Internet is your friend. > > ANSI Character Table > http://www.handheld-basic.com/documentation/text/page_599.html > > Use the decimal number for the 'ALT' codes. Carol responds: Or it would be if I knew what ANSI meant. It's hard to look up something whose existence you're unaware of. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by using the decimal number for the ALT codes. Do I type a period before the number as in a decimal fraction? bboyminn: > As to Copyediting falling out of fashion in hard economic times...REALLY? So, crappy books are going to sell better than well edited books? I don't think so. Carol: I'm not talking about copyediting at the major publishers, who have their inhouse copyeditors. I'm talking about freelance copyediting with private clients who work directly through me or through an editing service, which takes a 40 % cut to handle the business expenses and correspondence (raw deal for me, but saves me work I'd rather not have to do). These private clients need their work copyedited *before* they submit it to an agent or publisher (who would otherwise take one look and throw it in the slush pile (or stuff it in the provided SASE if the client is that savvy). Copyediting *is* a luxury if you're a first-time novelist or self-help author or whatever with no contacts, no experience, and no prospect of being published unless you pay someone to edit your work. Those are the people I work with most of the time. Consequently, in this economy, business is slow. My last two prospective clients liked my sample edits (first five pages edited free with a free minicritique for the first fifteen) but are waiting to request a full edit until they feel they can afford it. So all the work I put into the sample edits has, so far, gone for nothing. Carol, planning to get her Dumbledore-length hair cut and attend to other things she's been putting off while she waits for a new project to come in From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Jul 28 06:43:24 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:43:24 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: To Catlady re Prefect badges --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: Carol: > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html Geoff: Carol, the above link is wrong. It should be: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 06:45:38 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:45:38 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -Annemehr: > I'm not sure what you mean by cut-and-paste "icons." Carol: The icons are little pictures of scissors and paper and paste up on the toolbar. In Netscape, I use the Edit menu, but in IE it won't let me paste in material copied from Netscape. But I *can* do it using the icons, which I'm *very* happy to know. Annemehr: > Just to be clear, after I highlight something I want to copy, I click on the highlighted section with the right mouse button, and a menu pops up right there. I choose "copy" from it. Carol: Thanks, that's good to know if I want to copy and paste *from* IE *to* IE. But I'm talking about URLs that I've copied from Netscape and want to put it in the address bar on IE because that site doesn't work on Netscape. I'm *only* talking about copying and pasting URLs into the address bar (and possibly the Search bar. (And the icons solved the problem, in any case.) In fact, I'm not sure that I could copy *anything* from Netscape to IE without the icons. Now I can. Carol earlier: Well, I found the icons with a bit of searching, and they work for me. Granted, they weren't there in the first place--only print, which I would use, and Feed and IM and so forth, which I wouldn't use. Again, I'm typing from mem > > I'm using IE7, and I've never had any trouble with toolbars rolling > away (nor in any of the previous versions), so I can't help you there. Carol responds: Neither have I, till today. I think I must have clicked Maximize (which I always use in Netscape) or some such thing. They rolled clear off the page, making it look naked. Well, topless. And since I use all the buttons, include the blessed X that lets me escape from IE, I *need* the tool bar. And on top of that, it wasn't even a complete toolbar with all the menus and buttons that I needed. But now, somehow, I've retrieved the full menu and managed to keep it from slipping away. My cute little icons are there if I need them. So if I have to use IE I can use it now without cursing, weeping, or screaming. I still prefer Netscape for its simplicity and familiarity, but my biggest IE headache has been solved. If you still don't know which icons I'm talking about, I'll bet that your toolbar has a little house for "Home," a printer for "Print," a gear for "Tools," and a question mark in a circle for "Help," among others. You can add two pieces of paper for "Copy," a bottle of paste for "Paste," and a pair of scissors for "Cut." I haven't used "cut" yet, but I copied a URL from Netscape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lovell,_Viscount_Lovell) clicked the address box where I wanted the URL, clicked my little paste bottle and voile!--just like pasting from the Edit menu on Netscape. Carol, recommending that anybody who uses IE get those cute little icons, which, I confess, are "cooler" than the similar icons in Netscape 9 > > Carol: > > I don't have any problems with Yahoo mail in Netscape because I've > > turned off all the fancy features and just use plain text. (I have a > > "real" e-mail address for business e-mail.) > > There, see -- I like lots of the fancy features, when I'm playing, or > when I'm carrying on an intricate conversation with someone (color- > coding comes in handy then). Besides, some people would send me mail > with smileys in it sometimes, and Netscape just stripped them all > out -- I never even knew there was anything missing until I happened > to look at one in IE one day. > > Annemehr, > who still, for some reason, can't be bothered to post to groups using > Rich-Text Editor, unless there is a long link to be kept whole. > From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 06:55:04 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:55:04 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > > Re: To Catlady re Prefect badges > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Carol: > > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > Geoff: > Carol, the above link is wrong. > > It should be: > http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html Carol responds: They both work for me. They take me to the exact same page. And I copied and pasted the URL rather than typing it, so I don't see how it could be "wrong." I just went there again and copied the URL as a test. Here's what I got: http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html Evidently, the page has two URLs. Maybe you've bookmarked one, but I found the other when I was searching for the info to help Catlady. Carol, thanking Geoff anyway and hoping that Catlady found the right page From annemehr at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 12:19:37 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:19:37 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? (Side Track) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Annemehr, earlier: > > Just to be clear, after I highlight something I want to copy, I > click on the highlighted section with the right mouse button, and a > menu pops up right there. I choose "copy" from it. > > Carol: > Thanks, that's good to know if I want to copy and paste *from* IE *to* > IE. But I'm talking about URLs that I've copied from Netscape and want > to put it in the address bar on IE because that site doesn't work on > Netscape. I'm *only* talking about copying and pasting URLs into the > address bar (and possibly the Search bar. (And the icons solved the > problem, in any case.) In fact, I'm not sure that I could copy > *anything* from Netscape to IE without the icons. Now I can. > Annemehr: My method doesn't work between Netscape and IE? I'm really surprised, because I thought your clipboard was an independent thing on your computer. I mean, I've used my method to c&p between IE and Word, and IE and Notepad, and Word and Notepad, among other things, and never had a problem. Though I can't recall if I've ever copied a URL from a non-IE source to paste into the IE address bar. Let's see... Yep, just tried to c&p a URL from Notepad to IE and it worked fine. Now I'm all curious, and when I get onto a computer that has both Netscape and IE, I'm going to play with it, just for my own satisfaction. > Carol: > If you still don't know which icons I'm talking about, I'll bet that > your toolbar has a little house for "Home," a printer for "Print," a > gear for "Tools," and a question mark in a circle for "Help," among > others. You can add two pieces of paper for "Copy," a bottle of paste > for "Paste," and a pair of scissors for "Cut." Annemehr: Now I know what you mean! They do sound cute. But using them would involve moving the mouse to a certain spot before the second click, and I'm too lazy to do that! From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jul 28 12:50:09 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:50:09 -0000 Subject: Computer 101 (was Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > If you still don't know which icons I'm talking about, I'll bet that > your toolbar has a little house for "Home," a printer for "Print," a > gear for "Tools," and a question mark in a circle for "Help," among > others. You can add two pieces of paper for "Copy," a bottle of paste > for "Paste," and a pair of scissors for "Cut." Potioncat: Do you get the paper, paste and scissors at Staples or will K-Mart do? But seriously, where do you find them to add to the tool bar. Or, does it depend on the browser? Why would you have two browers open at the same time? My own computer question, sort of. I just went into internet options and made a change that sped up the computer. (Oh, the wonder of me!) But my options aren't the same as they are at work. At work I can delete cookies and temporary files. That doesn't seem to be case here. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? BTW Carol, being a copyeditor sounds a lot like being a matchmaker Carol wrote: > Copyediting *is* a luxury if you're a first-time novelist or self- help > author or whatever with no contacts, no experience, and no prospect of > being published unless you pay someone to edit your work. Potioncat: which reminded me of a line from the Matchmaker song from "Fiddler on the Roof": "With no dowery, no money no family background, be glad you've got a man!" Potioncat, who has a young fan of Broadway and hears lots of showtunes everyday. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jul 28 14:00:56 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:00:56 -0000 Subject: Historical "safe rooms" Was: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > All of which reminds me of Francis, Viscount Lovell. snip Many years later, in 1708, the > skeleton of a man was found in a secret room at Minster Lovell. > Apparently, Francis, twice declared a traitor by Henry VII (whom he > obviously had no desire to serve), starved to death in his own > basement "safe room" hiding from "the Tydder" (Tudor)! Potioncat: I rather like the historical-fiction!Lovell. I thought drowning in his armor in a river was bad enough. Are they sure the skeleton was Lovell's? Is there connection between Francis and the Lovell telescope? (No, I don't think he designed it.) > > Carol, who expected the Malfoys' secret room to be a "safe room" to > hide from the Aurors in, rather safer than Francis Lovell's > Potioncat: I wouldn't have thought it would be so close to the main floor that you could hear noises from it. Potioncat, wearing a pink rose, because she has been influenced by Carol and now can't decide beteen York or Lancaster--and feels that puts her into the same mix as some rather unsavory historical characters. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 16:44:22 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:44:22 -0000 Subject: Computer 101 (icons) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > If you still don't know which icons I'm talking about, I'll bet that your toolbar has a little house for "Home," a printer for "Print," a gear for "Tools," and a question mark in a circle for "Help," among others. You can add two pieces of paper for "Copy," a bottle of paste for "Paste," and a pair of scissors for "Cut." > > Potioncat: > Do you get the paper, paste and scissors at Staples or will K-Mart do? But seriously, where do you find them to add to the tool bar. Or, does it depend on the browser? Carol responds: Oh, get them at a browser! They're free. Seriously, it does depend on the browser. Netscape 7.2 doesn't have icons for cut/copy and paste; I just use the Edit menu. Netscape 9 has icons, but except for Cut (scissors), they don't obviously represent their functions lie the IE ones do. (Copy and Paste both have what is probably the corner or a piece of paper with an arrow pointing to or away from the paper. If I forget which is which because my brain is in a fog, I have to use the mouse pointer to see the labels.) But in IE, you click Tools (the one with the gear icon beside it, not the one in the Menu Bar that says File, Edit, View, Favorites, Tools, Help) then go to Toolbars, then to Customize. You'll see two sets of icons, those you already have and those you can add. Click Add or Remove or Move Up or Move Down to arrange them the way you like. In Netscape 9, you click View, then Toolbars, then Customize, and drop-and-drag the icons you want to the toolbar using your mouse pointer. I can't get Firefox to work (it's stuck in safe mode and won't let me customize), but try clicking Customize and see what happens. Potioncat: Why would you have two browers open at the same time? Carol: because I always use Netscape and am comfortable using it, but when I find a site that won't work because it's owned by Microsoft or requires newer versions of Flash or Java that are incompatible with Netscape 7.2 (because it's an old browser), I have to go to IE or Netscape 9. And rather than typing in the URL for the page I need or finding it in Favorites (if it's there), I need to be able to copy and paste the URL. Before, I had to use the function key shortcuts (Alt-X or whatever) which I could never remember or type in the URL. Now, finally, I can paste them in easily thanks to the little icons. Then, when I'm through with that site, I go back to Netscape, where I'm at home and comfortable. It's like changing out of your high heels into your fuzzy old slippers. Potioncat: > My own computer question, sort of. > > I just went into internet options and made a change that sped up the computer. (Oh, the wonder of me!) But my options aren't the same as they are at work. At work I can delete cookies and temporary files. That doesn't seem to be case here. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Carol: What change did you make and which browser were you using? > Potioncat: > BTW Carol, being a copyeditor sounds a lot like being a matchmaker Carol: Actually, it's the agent who's the matchmaker, finding the right publisher for a particular manuscript after the copyeditor, the beautician, has cleaned and prettied it up (not to mention corrected any factual errors, like Hawaii being east of the continental United States!). Many manuscripts, of course, remain "unmatched" and never see print because every agent and publisher they're presented to rejects the poor ugly ducklings. Carol, who will now have "Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match" going through her head all day From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 17:08:11 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:08:11 -0000 Subject: Historical "safe rooms" Was: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol responds: > > > > All of which reminds me of Francis, Viscount Lovell. > Many years later, in 1708, the skeleton of a man was found in a secret room at Minster Lovell. Apparently, Francis, twice declared a traitor by Henry VII (whom he obviously had no desire to serve), starved to death in his own basement "safe room" hiding from "the Tydder" (Tudor)! > > Potioncat: > I rather like the historical-fiction!Lovell. I thought drowning in his armor in a river was bad enough. Are they sure the skeleton was Lovell's? Carol: No, they're not sure, but who else's could it be? I don't think there were any other mysterious disappearances in the Lovell family (or whoever inherited Minster Lovell after Francis was attainted. Could Tudor supporters who acquired it from Henry have found Francis and locked him in? For all we know, his wife might have retained her family's Lancastrian sympathies and transferred them to Tudor, though of course, it's unfair of me to suspect her with no evidence.) I don't know what happened to the bones or whether there's any Lovell DNA that could be used to determine their identity. > > Carol, who expected the Malfoys' secret room to be a "safe room" to hide from the Aurors in, rather safer than Francis Lovell's > > > Potioncat: > I wouldn't have thought it would be so close to the main floor that you could hear noises from it. Carol: I was surprised by that, too. > > Potioncat, wearing a pink rose, because she has been influenced by Carol and now can't decide beteen York or Lancaster--and feels that puts her into the same mix as some rather unsavory historical characters. Carol: Just out of curiosity, which unsavory characters wore their roses pink? If you're thinking of the Tudors, they wore their roses "damask'd white and red," to borrow Shakespeare's description of an actual rose, although Elizabeth of York is depicted holding a white rose. BTW, I recommend a little book called "The Mystery of the Princes" by Audrey Williamson, not to be confused with "The Princes in the Tower" by Alison Weir, which takes for granted Richard's guilt. (It talks about Richard and the former princes, of course, not about Francis Lovell. I don't agree with all her conclusions and inferences, particularly that Richard was "asexual"!!!), but she has some interesting background on Sir James Tyrrell, Perkin Warbeck, and others that really ought to be brought into the debate. I'm now torn between Buckingham did it and the sons of Edward IV survived Richard III, with the older dying of natural causes and the younger living to be executed horribly by Henry VII as Perkin Warbeck. At any rate, I've always thought it likely, given their position ten feet beneath the foundations of a staircase, that the bones of the "princes" date from a much earlier era, probably Roman times. Carol, why historians so often allow their preconceptions to color their interpretations instead of using the scientific method as far as possible From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 17:15:55 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:15:55 -0000 Subject: Historical "safe rooms" Was: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > BTW, I recommend a little book called "The Mystery of the Princes" by Audrey Williamson, not to be confused with "The Princes in the Tower" by Alison Weir, which takes for granted Richard's guilt. (It talks about Richard and the former princes, of course, not about Francis Lovell. Carol "It" refers to Williamson's book, the one I'm recommending despite that one odd assumption (does being faithful to his wife and not wanting to be forced into remarriage after her death make a man asexual?), not to Weir's, which takes its thesis for granted rather than trying to explore the evidence objectively. BTW, I just found an opening for what would be the perfect job for me if only I were English--a subeditor for the National Archives! If only I were British and twenty years younger, I'd apply in a second. Carol, going back to her editing project to try to trim the several hundred comments and queries to a more reasonable number From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Jul 28 19:19:39 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:19:39 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" > wrote: > > > > Re: To Catlady re Prefect badges > > > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > > > Carol: > > > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > > > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > > > > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > > > Geoff: > > Carol, the above link is wrong. > > > > It should be: > > http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > Carol responds: > They both work for me. They take me to the exact same page. And I > copied and pasted the URL rather than typing it, so I don't see how it > could be "wrong." > > I just went there again and copied the URL as a test. Here's what I got: > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > Evidently, the page has two URLs. Maybe you've bookmarked one, but I > found the other when I was searching for the info to help Catlady. > > Carol, thanking Geoff anyway and hoping that Catlady found the right page Geoff: Well, I've tried it on two different browsers - Safari (my default) and Firefox and they both report that they cannot find the URL http://www.hp-lexicon.info Change .info to .org and Bingo! Which is what I expected as .info is not a standard suffix. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Jul 28 19:27:39 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" > > wrote: > > > > > > Re: To Catlady re Prefect badges > > > > > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > > > > > Carol: > > > > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > > > > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > > > > > > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > > > > > Geoff: > > > Carol, the above link is wrong. > > > > > > It should be: > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > > > Carol responds: > > They both work for me. They take me to the exact same page. And I > > copied and pasted the URL rather than typing it, so I don't see how it > > could be "wrong." > > > > I just went there again and copied the URL as a test. Here's what I got: > > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > > > Evidently, the page has two URLs. Maybe you've bookmarked one, but I > > found the other when I was searching for the info to help Catlady. > > > > Carol, thanking Geoff anyway and hoping that Catlady found the right page > > Geoff: > Well, I've tried it on two different browsers - Safari (my default) and > Firefox and they both report that they cannot find the URL > http://www.hp-lexicon.info > > Change .info to .org and Bingo! Which is what I expected as .info is > not a standard suffix. Geoff (10 minutes later): Now that is decidedly odd. Just a few minutes ago, I couldn't get the link from your two messages (37253/63) to work and was getting error messages on both my browsers. Now, they're working. Someone has removed a spanner from the works. From tonks_op at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 21:01:56 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:01:56 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" wrote: > My birthday is August 29th and I was thinking that I had until August > 31st to pay my tax. I didn't have time on the 29th; so I went by on > the 30th. They charged me a thirty dollar late fee!!!! I was 24 > hours late!!!! And, of course, they would not waive the fee or reduce > it or anything when I explained that I had thought that I had until > the end of the month. I bet some people are really late paying this. > But no, there is a flat late fee for everyone. Nothing graduated or > pro rated or whatever. This year I paid as soon as the bill came. Tonks: They make our license plates tags due on our birthdays too here in Michigan. But as long as we pay by the end of the month, I think we are OK. Which reminds me... oops... I was going to get up early today.. I hate to do it on my actually Birthday.. what a bummer... Tonks_op the answer is: 61. but don't tell. ;-) Is the Birthday fairy around?? Can't wait for my party tomorrow. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jul 28 21:43:14 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:43:14 -0000 Subject: Historical "safe rooms" Was: Science question about underground survival. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > No, they're not sure, but who else's could it be? I don't think there > were any other mysterious disappearances in the Lovell family (or > whoever inherited Minster Lovell after Francis was attainted. Potioncat: But there's a lot of time between the 1400s and 1708. This is one for historical CSI. > > Carol: > Just out of curiosity, which unsavory characters wore their roses > pink? If you're thinking of the Tudors, they wore their roses > "damask'd white and red," to borrow Shakespeare's description of an > actual rose, although Elizabeth of York is depicted holding a white rose. Potioncat: No, I mean, I used to rally behind the red rose, and now I'm taken by the Yorkist white, so that makes my rose pink. Because I'm not fully decided. The unsavory lot I was talking about, would include Warwick and Clarence and others who switched their support every time the wind changed. I don't know that any of them had flowers. I just realised, we celebrate Mothers' Day and Fathers' Day at our church by wearing either white or red roses. White in memory of and red in honor of. (wondering if it's officially Mother's Day or Mothers' Day?) From bboyminn at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 23:44:53 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:44:53 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > -bboyminn: > > > > The Internet is your friend. > > > > ANSI Character Table > > http://www.handheld-basic.com/documentation/text/page_599.html > > > > Use the decimal number for the 'ALT' codes. > > Carol responds: > > Or it would be if I knew what ANSI meant. It's hard to look up > something whose existence you're unaware of. Also, I'm not sure what > you mean by using the decimal number for the ALT codes. Do I type a > period before the number as in a decimal fraction? > bboyminn: Some of the ANSI charts have both HEXadecimal (base 16) and decimal (base 10) numbers. For example, the capital letter 'A' is 41 hexadecimal and 65 decimal, so to get the letter 'A' using the ALT key, you need to enter ALT 0065 You need to use a 4-digit version of the Decimal number, not the HEXadecimal number. That's all I'm saying. Steve/bluewizard From bboyminn at yahoo.com Mon Jul 28 23:47:15 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:47:15 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: oh and ANSI - American National Standards Institute From gav_fiji at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 01:33:24 2008 From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:33:24 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For anyone interested I have uploaded a file to the relevant section of this site. It's a quite long assessment on various aspects of King Richard III by Horace Walpole. It is something that is in the public domain so there's no worry about any copyright infringement. I obtained it originally from www.munseys.com and it is very interesting. As there are a good number of members who appear to have a liking for all things Richard III I thought it would be good to share this. Here's the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/files/Horace Walpole on King Richard the Third.pdf Goddlefrood From zanooda2 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 01:49:07 2008 From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:49:07 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > Apparently that applies only to the British Bloomsbury edition and any > translations based on it, not to the American Scholastic edition. zanooda: In my Bloomsbury PS book Percy's badge is still silver (the book is printed in 2004) :-). From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 04:47:08 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:47:08 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Digital and Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Tonks: > They make our license plates tags due on our birthdays too here in > Michigan. But as long as we pay by the end of the month, I think we > are OK. Mike: Don't wait, Tonks. They do nail you for a late charge in Michigan if you don't renew by your birthday. I think it is 10% of your renewal fee. I got nailed by it twice. They won't get you for expired tags before the end of the month. But then how would they know by looking at your sticker what day of the month your birthday is? From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 05:15:32 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:15:32 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > Well, I've tried it on two different browsers - Safari (my default) and > Firefox and they both report that they cannot find the URL > http://www.hp-lexicon.info > > Change .info to .org and Bingo! Which is what I expected as .info is > not a standard suffix. > Carol: Ah, well. It works for me in Netscape, IE, and Firefox (which I uninstalled and reinstalled to get around the Safe mode glitch). Since I don't have Safari, I can't test that. As for info not being a standard suffix (is that the right term?), apparently it's a fairly recent addition to the standard ones we're familiar with (.com, .org., .edu, etc.). A site called InterNIC?Public Information Regarding Internet Domain Name Registration Services says on its InterNIC FAQs on New Top-Level Domains page: ".info is also fully operational and accepting live registrations. More info on .info registration is availble at the website of the .info registry operator, Afilias Limited, at ." You can find more information at http://www.internic.net/faqs/new-tlds.html and on the main page, http://www.internic.net/index.html which is mostly links to FAQs and all sorts of other information that's over my head. Carol, assuming that these links will work for you because of the .net suffix From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 05:17:13 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:17:13 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff (10 minutes later): > Now that is decidedly odd. > > Just a few minutes ago, I couldn't get the link from your two messages (37253/63) to work and was getting error messages on both my browsers. Now, they're working. Someone has removed a spanner from the works. Carol: Just like my rolling toolbar at IE yesterday (and safe mode at Firefox). Carol, looking around for Peeves From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 05:39:30 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:39:30 -0000 Subject: Copyediting ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > Carol: > I'm not talking about copyediting at the major publishers, who have > their inhouse copyeditors. I'm talking about freelance copyediting > with private clients who work directly through me or through an > editing service, which takes a 40 % cut to handle the business > expenses and correspondence (raw deal for me, but saves me work I'd > rather not have to do). These private clients need their work > copyedited *before* they submit it to an agent or publisher (who would otherwise take one look and throw it in the slush pile (or stuff it in the provided SASE if the client is that savvy). > > Copyediting *is* a luxury if you're a first-time novelist or self- help author or whatever with no contacts, no experience, and no prospect of being published unless you pay someone to edit your work. Those are the people I work with most of the time. Consequently, in this economy, business is slow. Tonks: I am rather curious as to exactly what a copyeditor does? It is just proof reading to catch mistakes in grammar, puntuation, and spelling? Helping to make the subject clear to the reader or ???? Tonks_op who knows this is not spelled correctly and too lazy to open another window to put it into compose at my Yahoo mail. Computer is too slow. Mabye one of the computer people will teach us how to make the computer go faster when there is too much stuff on it. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 05:51:18 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:51:18 -0000 Subject: Wearing her roses pink Was: Historical "safe rooms" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol: > > No, they're not sure, but who else's could it be? I don't think there were any other mysterious disappearances in the Lovell family (or whoever inherited Minster Lovell after Francis was attainted. > > Potioncat: > But there's a lot of time between the 1400s and 1708. This is one for historical CSI. Carol: You're right. All sorts of obscure crimes from thirty years ago get investigated, but people forget or don't realize that there are mysteries from earlier centuries. I wonder if anyone has ever done a biography of Francis? I think somebody did one of John, Earl of Lincoln (Richard's nephew and heir who for some reason fought in support of the imposter, Lambert Simnel--as did Francis--even though John was Richard's rightful heir and Lambert was a kitchen boy). Even Henry VII lamented that John had died because he desperately wanted to question him (before giving him an execution befitting his noble rank, given all the other executions of Yorkist heirs. > > Carol earlier: > > Just out of curiosity, which unsavory characters wore their roses pink? If you're thinking of the Tudors, they wore their roses "damask'd white and red," to borrow Shakespeare's description of an actual rose, although Elizabeth of York is depicted holding a white rose. > > Potioncat: > No, I mean, I used to rally behind the red rose, and now I'm taken by the Yorkist white, so that makes my rose pink. Because I'm not fully decided. Carol: That's very nice. I hope it stays that way. I don't have any Lancastrian sympathies, but I do feel sorry for poor, simple Henry VI, who would much rather have been a monk than a king ("Royalty is only care.") Potioncat: > The unsavory lot I was talking about, would include Warwick and Clarence and others who switched their support every time the wind changed. I don't know that any of them had flowers. Carol: I wouldn't say that Warwick switched his support every time the wind changed. He changed allegiance only once, after a lifetime of being a Yorkist, after Edward IV made a fool of his marriage negotiations with Bona of Savoy by secretly marrying Elizabeth Woodville. (Imagine if he'd known about Eleanor Butler!) There was more to it, of course, but finally even his brother John, who was a loyal Yorkist in his heart, had had enough. "False, fleeting, perjured Clarence" is another matter. I think he was mentally unstable, as evidenced, for example, by his executing his wife's servant, Ankarette Twynyho, without a trial for supposedly poisoning his wife when she was obviously tubercular. BTW, I suppose someone should dig up George of Clarence to see if it can be determined whether he really met his end by drowning in a butt of malmsey. I have a theory on that. Suppose that George's body was laid out for public viewing like Henry VI's. Everyone knows that he was executed for very vaguely described treasons, but since the corpse still has its head, someone says jokingly, "Wonder how he died? Did they drown him in a butt of malmsey? Everyone knows he loved the wretched stuff." Someone overhears him and says to his neighbor, "Is it true that the Duke was drowned in a butt of malmsey?" >From there it becomes, "Have you heard what happened? The Duke of Clarence was drowned in a butt of malmsey!" Rumor becomes legend becomes "fact" as quickly as it takes to play a game of Telephone. But, anyway, both of George's children were executed by the Henrys for the crime of having Yorkist blood, jsut one of many reasons that I don't like the Tudors, at least the Henrys. I prefer even poor, unstable, treacherous, deluded George to any of the Tudors (except possibly Edward VI, who didn't live long enough to, say, restore the abbeys). At least he (Geeorge) had only one wife and didn't behead her! Potioncat: > I just realised, we celebrate Mothers' Day and Fathers' Day at our church by wearing either white or red roses. White in memory of and red in honor of. Carpl: I thought that, Yorkists and Lancastrians aside, "the red rose tells her of his passion, the white rose his love so true." :-) Potioncat: > (wondering if it's officially Mother's Day or Mothers' Day?) Carol: Mother's Day, singular possessive. I guess it's because we each celebrate or honor our own mother, not mothers in general. (Well, grandmas and aunts and even daughters with babies, too, but mostly out own mother.) Carol, having fun with Potioncat even if no one else is following this thread From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 05:54:58 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:54:58 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bboyminn: > > Some of the ANSI charts have both HEXadecimal (base 16) and decimal (base 10) numbers. > > For example, the capital letter 'A' is 41 hexadecimal and 65 decimal, so to get the letter 'A' using the ALT key, you need to enter ALT 0065 > > You need to use a 4-digit version of the Decimal number, not the HEXadecimal number. > > That's all I'm saying. > > Steve/bluewizard > Carol responds: Aaaaaaaaaah! Save me! @&^%*$#(*#@!!!!!!!! Me no understand. Me no want understand. Me stay ignorant. Carol, who obviously was not cut out to become a programmer (though I do know what a base ten number is) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 06:00:03 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 06:00:03 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve wrote: > > oh and ANSI - American National Standards Institute > Carol: Standards! Now there's a concept I understand. Standards for what, though? And for whom? american computer programmers? No detailed or technical responses, please, or I'll be sorry I asked. Carol, surprised that the standards aren't international From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 06:11:12 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 06:11:12 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > For anyone interested I have uploaded a file to the relevant > section of this site. It's a quite long assessment on various > aspects of King Richard III by Horace Walpole. It is something > that is in the public domain so there's no worry about any > copyright infringement. > > I obtained it originally from www.munseys.com and it is very > interesting. As there are a good number of members who appear > to have a liking for all things Richard III I thought it would > be good to share this. Here's the link: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/files/Horace Walpole on King Richard the Third.pdf > > Goddlefrood > Carol: Thanks very much. I know about Walpole (and Buck/Buc and Cornwallis and other early defenders or Richard), but I haven't read his "Historic Doubts" in a long time, and I appreciate the link. Walpole, of course, had only reason and common sense to go on to oppose Tudor myth. Since his time a huge number of documents (not to mention chronicles with biases of every description) have come to light. If you're seriously interested, the Richard III Society has a list of recommended reading. Or you can offlist me, and I can recommend some for you depending on what you know and what you've already read. Carol, off to visit Horace Walpole From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Tue Jul 29 06:35:35 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 06:35:35 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > > Apparently that applies only to the British Bloomsbury edition and any > > translations based on it, not to the American Scholastic edition. > > > zanooda: > > In my Bloomsbury PS book Percy's badge is still silver (the book is > printed in 2004) :-). Geoff: Ditto my hardback De Luxe copy, dating from 2003. From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com Tue Jul 29 08:10:13 2008 From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:10:13 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" wrote: > > For anyone interested I have uploaded a file to the relevant > section of this site. It's a quite long assessment on various > aspects of King Richard III by Horace Walpole. It is something > that is in the public domain so there's no worry about any > copyright infringement. > > I obtained it originally from www.munseys.com and it is very > interesting. As there are a good number of members who appear > to have a liking for all things Richard III I thought it would > be good to share this. Here's the link: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/files/Horace Walpole on > King Richard the Third.pdf > > Goddlefrood As a great Richard 111 lover I would have liked to have seen this, but could not access the link on this server Never Mind Jayne Who is going to Yorkshire on holiday and plans to visit Midleham, Richards child hood home From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 17:23:19 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:23:19 -0000 Subject: To Catlady re Prefect badges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > See the Lexicon's page on changes and edits to the books. Percy's > badge in Book 1 had been changed to match Ron's in OoP: > > > http://www.hp-lexicon.info/about/books/ps/changes_ps.html > > > Apparently that applies only to the British Bloomsbury edition and any translations based on it, not to the American Scholastic edition. > zanooda responded: > > In my Bloomsbury PS book Percy's badge is still silver (the book is printed in 2004) :-). > Carol: That's interesting. What about the other changes? And why on earth would JKR or her editors decide to delete "1 wand" from the equipment list? Offhand, I'd say it's the most important item on the list! I didn't check my Scholastic edition to see whether it has the same errors (not counting the wand, which is not an error, or the Prefect badge, which I remembered and recognized as an inconsistency when I first read OoP) because the page numbering is different. I'm pretty sure that I would have noticed a stray apostrophe at the beginning of a line, I assume that it was a single quote ("inverted comma") caught and deleted by the American copyeditor, one of whose tasks would be to Americanize the punctuation. I notice, though, that nobody caught and corrected the spelling "miniscule" for "minuscule" somewhere in Book 1 (the American edition, at least--maybe it was corrected early on in the British edition, which would explain why it doesn't appear on that list. I've noticed that "minuscule" is spelled correctly in the later books. (JKR seems to like the word--it appears in most if not all the books.) Carol, wishing she had the time to examine the books for differences and discrepancies in preparation for a revised American edition--or how about "The Annotated Harry Potter"?--for which, of course, permission which would never be granted From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 18:54:20 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:54:20 -0000 Subject: Copyediting ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks wrote: > > I am rather curious as to exactly what a copyeditor does? It is just proof reading to catch mistakes in grammar, puntuation, and spelling? Helping to make the subject clear to the reader or ???? > Carol responds: First, let me make a quick distinction between proofreading and editing of any kind. "Page proofs" are test copies of the type-set text, IOW, loose pages that look exactly like the pages in the printed book but with wider margins so that the proofreader can mark any mistakes. Editors, in contrast, work with the author's manuscript before it's set in type. Here's a comparison of a manuscript page and a page proof of the same page: https://authornet.cambridge.org/images/XML_workflow_manuscript.gif https://authornet.cambridge.org/images/XML_workflow_typescript.gif (Most page proofs don't have all that gunk in the margins, but I can't find a decent image online.) Manuscripts used to be hand written, as the etymology ("manu" = "by hand"; ""scriptus" = "writtten") indicates, then typewritten. These days, they're mostly composed on a computer and can either be printed out and edited by hand or edited on a computer using Word or a similar program--far and away the best method for detecting "accidental" plagiarism (as in passages cut-and-pasted from the Internet with no attribution, a growing problem because a lot of people think that Internet sites are in the public domain--wrong!). The copyeditor *does* correct the author's grammar, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization, as well as misused words ("infer" for "imply," for example), but also checks for consistency in everything from endnote format to the spelling out of numbers. (Copyeditors generally follow style guides, such as "The Chicago Manual of Style," in matters of hyphenation, comma use, capitalization, endnote format, and so on.) Unless the publisher requests a "light edit," the copyeditor also improves the sentence structure, for example, eliminating dangling modifiers and changing passive voice to active voice (unless there's a good reason not to do so). The copyeditor also queries apparent factual errors and contradictions and points out confusing passages, "accidental" plagiarism, etc. The copyedited manuscript is returned to the author, who is supposed to accept or reject the edits (much easier with a manuscript edited on a computer) before giving it to the publisher to be set in type (or sending it to an agent, if it hasn't been accepted for publication). Once the author's corrections are in place, the proofreader checks the proofs against the manuscript to make sure that all needed corrections have been made and to correct or query any new problems that have been created during the process of editing or typesetting, such as new typos, extra spacing between words, two words that have been jammed together, words accidentally left out, etc., as well as any mistakes in the manuscript (such as "miniscule" for "minuscule") that the copyeditor missed. Proofreaders use a special set of marks on the printed pages, such as a caret to insert a word or letter and # to indicate a needed space. http://www.brookwood.edu/dodgeWritingCenter/images/proofing.gif Copyeditors who work by hand use a similar but not identical set of marks (usually in red pencil or pen, as this site doesn't indicate). http://www.press.umich.edu/press/authinfo/editing.gif Carol, who hopes that she hasn't confused you further! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 19:14:53 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:14:53 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jayne wrote: > As a great Richard 111 lover I would have liked to have seen this, but could not access the link on this server > Never Mind > > Jayne > Who is going to Yorkshire on holiday and plans to visit Midleham, Richards child hood home > Carol responds: The link didn't go through completely. I'm copying it, hoping that it will link this time. If not, cut and paste the part that doesn't link into the address box. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/files/Horace Walpole According to the RIII Society, Middleham is now graced (I hope you read the irony in that word) by a statue of Richard created by an artist who couldn't make up her mind whether Richard was man or monster. http://www.richardiii.net/images/richard_middlehamstatue.jpg Better no statue at all than that one, IMO! I much prefer the statue at Bosworth, even though Richard was unlikely to hold the coronet in his hand that way. It was firmly attached to his helmet: http://www.richardiii.net/images/Leicester_statue_trans.gif Carol, who would have liked to see Middleham when she was in England even though it's fallen into ruin From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 19:20:34 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:20:34 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > The link didn't go through completely. I'm copying it, hoping that it will link this time. If not, cut and paste the part that doesn't link into the address box of your browser. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/files/Horace Walpole Carol replying to herself: Oops. Still doesn't link. You'll need to add the last word, either by typing it in or copying and pasting. Don't forget the space. Carol, who did access the file but only managed to read half of it before bedtime (there are some odd typos in it, BTW!) From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jul 29 19:33:26 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:33:26 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > The link didn't go through completely. I'm copying it, hoping that it > will link this time. If not, cut and paste the part that doesn't link > into the address box. Potioncat: Instead, look to the left side of this page and click on "files". Scroll down to Walpole and click on it. That will take you to the site. > Carol: > > http://www.richardiii.net/images/richard_middlehamstatue.jpg > > Better no statue at all than that one, IMO! Potioncat: As usual, I can't see it on my screen. On a slightly different note, I like the little in-joke in Sunne in Splendour. Richard's broken shoulder never quite heals and he has his armor ajusted for a better fit. One shoulder is slightly higher than the other although the difference isn't apparant to others. > > From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Tue Jul 29 20:10:16 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:10:16 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > Carol, who would have liked to see Middleham when she was in England > even though it's fallen into ruin Geoff: I haven't been there for several years but Middleham Castle is one of our "better" ruins. i.e. there's a reasonable amount of it still about. :-) From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 21:11:03 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is everyone ready to party? Birthdays X 3! Message-ID: <210234.72204.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com> *hangs the last streamer, surveys the room with satisfaction and tucks the decorations box back in the cupboard* Okay, that looks like it'll hold up during a wild party. I'm assuming everyone's ready for some fun. What? Yes, I know it's a workday tomorrow. So what? Today's birthday honourees are Stacey Mateo, Tonks_op and Scarlet (moonriversc). Birthday greetings can be sent care of this list or directly to Stacey at: staceymateo at gmail.com, to Tonks at: tonks_op at yahoo.com and to Scarlet at: violetldy at mindspring.com What's that you say? I forgot the food? Not in your wildest dreams would I forget food! I was just waiting for people to start arriving before bringing it out. Sheesh. Me, forget food. You guys really have lost it. :D Oh, leave some of those cakes for those celebrating, will you? And don't make me come back here too early to restock the bar! I hope all those celebrating are having magical days. May all your wishes come true. Happy Birthday, Stacey! Happy Birthday, Tonks! Happy Birthday, Scarlet! Sheryll the Birthday Elf, looking forward to seeing Tonks in person very soon :) __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From marion11111 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 21:27:49 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:27:49 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > One more question: I have a new TV (bought less than a year ago) but > it's an inexpensive model (I didn't need a built-in DVD player and all > that). How can I tell whether it's analog or digital? > > Carol, who really wishes that bureaucracy and technology didn't make > slaves of us all! > marion laughing: I think if it was digital it wouldn't have been inexpensive! I know they are coming down, but TVs are so doggone expensive anyway and these are more so. I can't remember who replied to me that they know their TVs break because that's the only time they buy a new one. Well, me too but it happens about once every 10-15 years. I remember when my city finally got cable in the early 80's and we looked at the back of our TV set to hook it up - no cable-type plug. In fact, no plug in at all! Just an AC cord coming out and some screws to wrap the rabbit ear wires around. The cable guy laughed and laughed. From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 01:48:02 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:48:02 -0000 Subject: Cable TV & Digital Broadcasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > marion11111 wrote: > > Well I suppose so, but I haven't bought a new TV for years and > certainly my frugal senior citizen mother hasn't. I don't need > bigger or flatter and, honestly, TV sets never seem to break. Mike: Heh, my folks are 80 & 78 and they went out and got a 42" hi-def TV after their 50" analog set broke. Me? I'm still watching my 19" analog TV that's 20+ years old. ;-) I've read this whole thread and I'm still confused about something. I have cable and one cable box to get the premium channels. But I have a couple more analog TVs that are connected directly to the cable, i.e. no box for those. Will I still be able to receive the signal on those analog sets without any box? Does it make any difference if those sets have a "cable/tv" switch? Mike "Thank you for your support." <-- Bonus points: Whose tag line was that? What was their product? From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jul 30 03:31:20 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:31:20 -0000 Subject: Old movies Message-ID: I've had a few days to myself and have used the opportunity to order movies just for me. I just saw "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie." All I can say is that I wish I'd seen it when I was younger and less conservative. But there's some fantastic scenes, great acting. It's hard not to think Harry Potter when you're watching a movie about a school with Maggie Smith. Wait, I wasn't watching it with Maggie Smith. It's hard not to compare the two movies that have Maggie Smith portraying a teacher. (OK, that's better.) This one also takes place in Scotland. I tell you, it was sort of like watching a young Minerva. The voice, the accent, the sharpness. Jean's 'behavior' doesn't comparte to Minerva's---but there were moments that were pure McGonagall. I did truely lose it when one character announced that Miss Brodie made him believe in witches. Sorry, just some late night rambling. Potioncat who also rented "Chocolat." From stevejjen at earthlink.net Wed Jul 30 03:41:37 2008 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:41:37 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer Message-ID: Whoo-hoo!! The HBP teaser trailer is out: http://www.moviefone.com/movie/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood- prince/27063/main Also, TLC has links on their homepage in case the above doesn't work: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/ Jen From annemehr at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 04:35:13 2008 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:35:13 -0000 Subject: Old movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > I've had a few days to myself and have used the opportunity to order > movies just for me. I just saw "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie." All I > can say is that I wish I'd seen it when I was younger and less > conservative. Annemehr: Can't you be younger and less conservative now? I do everything backwards -- I was pretty much all conservative when I was young, and I'm pretty much all liberal now. Never saw "Brodie" before -- thanks for the tip! > Potioncat who also rented "Chocolat." I loved "Chocolat" -- and someone told me it was an even better book! Annemehr, who watched the original Pirates of the Caribbean last night From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 05:19:07 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:19:07 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > > > The link didn't go through completely. I'm copying it, hoping that it will link this time. If not, cut and paste the part that doesn't link into the address box. > > Potioncat: > Instead, look to the left side of this page and click on "files". Scroll down to Walpole and click on it. That will take you to the site. > > Carol responds: Of course! Considering that I'm the moderator of another Yahoo group (on Ted Levine, if anybody cares), I should have known that. Of course, when I upload a file I always check the box that automatically announces the new file to the groupm and since goddlefrood didn't do it that way, i wasn't thinking of it as a file in the Files. Does that make sense? No? I didn't thinks so. Also, I wasn't thinking of it as an OT topic for an HPfGu group. It certainly qualifies as OT! Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, Potioncat. Now I can find it any time I like, and I trust that Jayne found it, too. > Carol: > > > > http://www.richardiii.net/images/richard_middlehamstatue.jpg > > > > Better no statue at all than that one, IMO! > > Potioncat: > As usual, I can't see it on my screen. Carol? You can't? Why not? If I give you the URL for the actual site will you be able to see it, or won't your computer show images at all? Maybe you just need a better video card? Potioncat: On a slightly different note, > I like the little in-joke in Sunne in Splendour. Richard's broken shoulder never quite heals and he has his armor ajusted for a better fit. One shoulder is slightly higher than the other although the difference isn't apparant to others. Carol responds: It's funny, though, how no one, even the most virulent anti-Richards, believes that he was deformed, the withered arm and hunchback being Sir Thomas More's invention and the limp Shakespeare's, but even Ricardians like Penman cling to the raised shoulder. (I read somewhere that Sir Thomas himself had one shoulder higher than the other--wish I soulc recall where.) Besides, Richard's raised shoulder (admittedly a minor disfiguration and no handicap in battle, if it was real) is first mentioned by the timeserver Rous, along with the likely story that he was two years in his mother's womb and born with teeth and hair streaming to his shoulders. Naturally, the monstrous child must have had some deformity, so Rous adds the raised shoulder that no one mentioned during Richard's lifetime. (Oddly, giving that lengthy and unprecedented pregnancy, not to mention a very dangerous childbirth that would have killed a lesser woman, Richard's mother managed to survive to outlive all her sons and most of her daughters, dying in Henry VII's reign at age eighty.) Anyway, I think that the raised shoulder is as much as part of the myth as all the rest, but it could also have been the foundation on which the myth was built. I doubt it, though. Deformity was supposed to indicate evil in those days. (I don't think More intended his account to be believed, though. I think it was a humanist's idea of a joke to be shared with Erasmus and maybe Polydore Vergil, who as the official historian had to add his share to the infamies and deformities. I don't have time to explore that thesis, but Alison Hanham, of all people, has apparently suggested something of the sort.) Anyway, Mad-eye Moody would have been hanged on the spot (once he'd AK'd a few people and proved himself guilty of sorcery) if he'd dared to enter fifteenth- or sixteenth-century England. Actually, I'm not sure what form of death he'd have suffered under the Yorkists or the Tudors. I rather think the Lancastrians would have burned him, as they did Joan of Arc. Anybody know the penalty for sorcery in that era? Carol, deciding to add a touch of HP-related material for those who don't care about Richard Plantagenet From tonks_op at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 05:41:37 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:41:37 -0000 Subject: Is everyone ready to party? Birthdays X 3! In-Reply-To: <210234.72204.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend wrote: > > *hangs the last streamer, surveys the room with satisfaction and tucks the decorations box back in the cupboard* > > Okay, that looks like it'll hold up during a wild party. I'm assuming everyone's ready for some fun. > > What? Yes, I know it's a workday tomorrow. So what? Snip> > I hope all those celebrating are having magical days. May all your wishes come true. > > Happy Birthday, Stacey! > Happy Birthday, Tonks! > Happy Birthday, Scarlet! > > Sheryll the Birthday Elf, looking forward to seeing Tonks in person very soon :) Tonks: Hey.. thanks Sheryll. Isn't she a great elf!?? I enjoyed the party. I had a great day. Out to dinner. Went to a movie... bad choice. will explain in a different post. Thanks again. Tonks_op who is really old enough to be Neville's gram. Or old enough to be a good friend of Prof. Marchbanks, who, by the way, will be at Terminus too. From tonks_op at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 05:58:52 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:58:52 -0000 Subject: Movies - Ain't like they use to be - 'Step Brothers' Message-ID: I saw a movie today that was just horrible. They should give us our money back. I did not see the R rating on it. But still R is not all that bad and some are very funny. But not this one. Not only was it poorly written, not at all funny, but I don't know how they got away with showing what I don't think they can show even in an X rated movie. (Admittedly it has been many, many years since I have seen an X rated movie, so maybe things have changed.) This movie was probably written by a 13 year old boy for other 13 year old boys. It was beyond vulgar!! It was not at all funny. Violence. Sex. And a vocabulary where ever other word is F... I wanted to see a comedy. I don't know what this was, but is was not a comedy, unless you are a pre-teen boy watching it in the locker- room. I don't know how they got away with such a thing in a movie for a regular audience. (And I wonder if that was really the actor's 'body part' (or should I say pair of parts) or a good imitation.) I felt sorry for the actors. They must have all been desperate for work to take this film. What has happened to Hollywood? Where have all the good writers gone?? Aren't they paying them more now? For what!!??? So don't waste your money on this one. I think I will go see Kung-Fu Panda tomorrow. I hope that one isn't as disappointing as Wall-e was. That is my other peeve... I don't want movies to give me a message about global warming, etc. I want to be entertained!! Save the messages for TV. Tonks_op From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Wed Jul 30 07:46:47 2008 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:46:47 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" wrote: > > Whoo-hoo!! The HBP teaser trailer is out: > > http://www.moviefone.com/movie/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood- > prince/27063/main > > Also, TLC has links on their homepage in case the above doesn't work: > http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/ > > > Jen Geoff: It is now 08:45 BST here and I have just been finishing my breakfast while BBC Breakfast - the main morning news and events programme on BBC1 has screened the entire trailer and discussed it. First impression - it looks good. From OctobersChild48 at aol.com Wed Jul 30 08:12:06 2008 From: OctobersChild48 at aol.com (OctobersChild48 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:12:06 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? Message-ID: Carol: One more question: I have a new TV (bought less than a year ago) but > it's an inexpensive model (I didn't need a built-in DVD player and all > that). How can I tell whether it's analog or digital? > > Carol, who really wishes that bureaucracy and technology didn't make > slaves of us all! > marion laughing: I think if it was digital it wouldn't have been inexpensive! I know they are coming down, but TVs are so doggone expensive anyway and these are more so. Sandy: I bought my television in December, 20 inch, flat screen - not to be confused with flat panel, it is definitely digital and it cost $130. Carol, look at your remote. Are the letters DTV anywhere on it, or do you have a small button with DTV/TV above or below it? If so it is a digital TV. The letters DTV should also be on the television somewhere on the front. And if you still have your manual it will definitely tell you in it if it is digital. It would have also been on the box it came in but I doubt you still have that. Just look for the letters DTV on the remote, TV and/or in the manual. Sandy **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 30 09:28:16 2008 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann Jennings) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:28:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: HBP Trailer Message-ID: <685915.40308.qm@web25802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Jen wrote: >>>Whoo-hoo!! The HBP teaser trailer is out: http://www.moviefon e.com/movie/ harry-potter- and-the-half- blood- prince/27063/ main Also, TLC has links on their homepage in case the above doesn't work: http://www.the- leaky-cauldron. org/<<< Mary Ann: Thanks for the link! I agree with Geoff; it looks to be good. I'm so pleased that my daughter is now enough of an Hp fan and old enough to see the movie with me. My husband has no interest in HP and I don't know of any other fans in this area. For various reasons I had to wait 'til the last few HP movies were out on DVD before I could see them. Mary Ann, who's trying to get her two younger children into HP without much success From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jul 30 11:41:52 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:41:52 -0000 Subject: Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Potioncat: > > As usual, I can't see it on my screen. > > Carol? You can't? Why not? If I give you the URL for the actual site > will you be able to see it, or won't your computer show images at all? > Maybe you just need a better video card? Potioncat: For some reason the screen is very dark. It's not the monitor, it's the computer. Perhaps it could be fixed, I don't know. I can see the picture of Richard holding the crown well enough to know what it is. Those that are bright are OK, anything that is dim or dark is very difficult to see. > > Carol responds: > It's funny, though, how no one, even the most virulent anti- Richards, > believes that he was deformed, the withered arm and hunchback being > Sir Thomas More's invention and the limp Shakespeare's, but even > Ricardians like Penman cling to the raised shoulder. Potioncat: Have you ever seen "The Good-bye Girl"? One of the chacactors is performing in Richard III and is made to add all sorts of abnormalities to Richard. He isn't very happy about it, but it works out. Once upon a time, the list was discussing the possible connections between HP and York/Lancaster. I remember saying that if Snape was supposed to be Richard, we'd better hope he didn't take Neville and Harry to the tower. Turns out Snape had his "tower murder" afterall. From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jul 30 11:48:27 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:48:27 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > marion laughing: > > I think if it was digital it wouldn't have been inexpensive! I know > they are coming down, but TVs are so doggone expensive anyway and > these are more so. Potioncat: We foolishly told my daughter we'd get her a TV for college, then discovered how expensive they've gotten. My goodness, they even have color now. We had no idea! I'm ready to 'go back' on our offer and take a second look at the TV she insists doesn't work. Back to converter boxes. If you've gotten one, hook it up. My brother tells me that the stations are already broadcasting in both digital and analog. In his area it means your regular station has more programming. He says instead of just channel 7, there's a 7a, 7b, etc. We're just hoping our 90-year-old aunt can handle the new remote. She's losing the ability to adjust to changes in technology. From marion11111 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 13:56:32 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:56:32 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Potioncat: > We foolishly told my daughter we'd get her a TV for college, then > discovered how expensive they've gotten. My goodness, they even have > color now. We had no idea! I'm ready to 'go back' on our offer and > take a second look at the TV she insists doesn't work. > > Back to converter boxes. If you've gotten one, hook it up. My brother > tells me that the stations are already broadcasting in both digital > and analog. In his area it means your regular station has more > programming. He says instead of just channel 7, there's a 7a, 7b, etc. > > We're just hoping our 90-year-old aunt can handle the new remote. > She's losing the ability to adjust to changes in technology. > marion again: Maybe they are coming down in price? When I looked last year, I couldn't find anything digital for under $300, but someone on this list just bought one for $130. Of course, now my TV is only a few years old and it irks me to go buy a new one just to go digital. I think I'll trust the cable company to convert for me. When I went to college - back with the dinosaurs - we all brought various "luxury" items to the dorms. I provided a stereo (with tape deck!!!) and a hot pot (stop it - not that kind of pot). My roommate brought a TV (which made our room very popular), a popcorn popper, and also a hot pot. The TV was her family's old one - black and white with the knobs broken off so you had to change the channels and adjust the volume with a needle- nose pliers. But, hey, it was TV and we could watch Three's Company and Saturday Night Live. We went in together and rented a little bitty fridge. There was a microwave which no one ever used and a big color TV in the dorm common room. There was a phone in every room which was a big improvement over the previous year when the phone was down the hall and shared by the whole floor. I don't know how anyone affords college now. Not only is tuition out of control, but the expectations for student life are so much higher. Laptops, printers, TVs with cable (or is that included in the dorm fee along with wireless?), iPods, docking stations, microwaves. Oh and cell phones with billions of minutes. And, really, I'm sure the professors expect that the kids will have these things - certainly they assume a computer and printer and probably an iPod for some lessons. Also, the phone for instant communication. Its not just the kids that expect these things. Society does. From bboyminn at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 19:14:15 2008 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:14:15 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Steve wrote: > > > > oh and ANSI - American National Standards Institute > > > Carol: > Standards! Now there's a concept I understand. Standards for what, > though? And for whom? american computer programmers? No detailed or > technical responses, please, or I'll be sorry I asked. > > Carol, surprised that the standards aren't international > bboyminn: Wikipedia is your friend. ANSI was formed in 1918 when five engineering societies and three government agencies founded the American Engineering Standards Committee (AESC). The AESC became the American Standards Association (ASA) in 1928. In 1966, the ASA was reorganized and became the United States of America Standards Institute (USASI). The present name was adopted in 1969. ANSI's membership comprises government agencies, organizations, corporations, academic and international bodies, and individuals. In total, the Institute represents the interests of more than 125,000 companies and 3.5 million professionals. Though ANSI itself does not develop standards, the Institute facilitates the development of American National Standards, also known as ANS, by accrediting the procedures of standards developing organizations. ANSI accreditation signifies that the procedures used by standards setting organizations meet the Institute's requirements for openness, balance, consensus, and due process. Voluntary consensus standards quicken the market acceptance of products while making clear how to improve the safety of those products for the protection of consumers. There are approximately 10,500 American National Standards that carry the ANSI designation. American National Standards include: * A standard for the set of values used to represent characters in digital computers. The ANSI code standard extended the previously created ASCII seven bit code standard with additional codes for European alphabets (see also Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code or EBCDIC). In Microsoft Windows, the phrase "ANSI" refers to the Windows ANSI code pages (even though they are not ANSI standards[1]). Most of these are fixed width, though some characters for ideographic languages are variable width. Since these characters are based on a draft of the ISO-8859 series, some of Microsoft's symbols are visually very similar to the ISO symbols, leading many to falsely assume that they are identical. Aren't you glad you asked. :) Steve/bluewizard From stevejjen at earthlink.net Wed Jul 30 19:47:44 2008 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:47:44 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: <685915.40308.qm@web25802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Geoff: > It is now 08:45 BST here and I have just been finishing my > breakfast while BBC Breakfast - the main morning news and events > programme on BBC1 has screened the entire trailer and discussed it. > First impression - it looks good. > Mary Ann: > > Thanks for the link! I agree with Geoff; it looks to be good. > > I'm so pleased that my daughter is now enough of an Hp fan and old > enough to see the movie with me. My husband has no interest in HP > and I don't know of any other fans in this area. For various > reasons I had to wait 'til the last few HP movies were out on DVD > before I could see them. > > Mary Ann, who's trying to get her two younger children into HP > without much success Jen: I have high hopes for this one, my favorite book. I drag my husband to every HP movie once & my son goes willingly a couple of times (with offers of snacks). Then I have to see each movie a couple of times alone....I know, so much $$! I love movies though, will gladly spend any extra on them. BTW, here's my first ever attempt at a tinyurl link since the moviefone link didn't work. This worked OK in my own browser: http://tinyurl.com/6h2hd3 Hope that works. S P O I L E R I S H Don't know if we need spoiler space since everyone knows the story..... I'm pretty sure that's Harry running through the tall grass b/c I spotted glasses (on the 10th plus viewing). Looks like the battle will take place in tall waving grass?!? At least that guy looks like he could be a DE & Ginny appears to be fighting. At first I thought the dark-haired guy might be teen LV, but he appears to be in the same tall grass as Harry. Looks like there's going to be a scene with DD putting on the ring, which means Snape healing him too, I hope. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 20:02:34 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:02:34 -0000 Subject: Cable TV & Digital Broadcasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike wrote: > > I've read this whole thread and I'm still confused about something. I > have cable and one cable box to get the premium channels. But I have > a couple more analog TVs that are connected directly to the cable, > i.e. no box for those. > > Will I still be able to receive the signal on those analog sets > without any box? Does it make any difference if those sets have > a "cable/tv" switch? Carol responds; I wrote to the coupon people using a "contact us" link on the site I posted a link to earlier asking a similar question. Apparently, your analog TVS will work if you have an antenna (indoor or outdoor) plus the converter. Your cable TV will work as it always did and won't need a converter (unless you want to give up cable and just use it as you do those other TVs). It makes no difference, AFAIK, whether they have a cable TV switch (though you'll probably need a place to plug the converter box into those TVs). In short, you need *either* a cable box *or* an antenna plus a converter box. Here's the response I got to my queries, one of which was whether people with cable TVs are eligible for the coupons. (I forget what else I asked.): "There are 22.25 million coupons available to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used, there are an additional 11.25 million coupons available only to households that receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air using an antenna. Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite or other pay TV service are not eligible for this second batch of coupons. Consumers can apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or until the funds are exhausted. "If you currently use an antenna to receive your over-the-air programming, you will still need it after you install a converter box. In some cases, TV viewers may need a new antenna. For help choosing an antenna in order to receive your free, local broadcast TV channels, visit http://www.antennaweb.org. "Sincerely, MELISSA CARLSON Consumer Support TV Converter Box Coupon Program" Apparently, people with cable TVs are elibible until the first 22.25 coupons are issued, but they need the coupons only if they plan to switch over to antenna plus converter. In your case, you'd be eligible even after those coupons are issued because two of your TVs use an antenna. What I don't know is whether you'd need more than one converter box for those TVs (I expect that each would need its own) and whether you can plug in a converter to an old TV that isn't set up for cable. Check out the site at https://www.dtv2009.gov/ If you still have questions, go to the contact page, https://www.dtv2009.gov/EmailUs.aspx where you can email them by filling out a form. They respond in only a few days. Or copy and paste this address into your own email if you prefer: WebSupport @ dtv. 2009.gov (close up the spaces: I only put them there to trick Yahoo so it won't hide the address). Good luck! Carol, who intends to apply for a coupon and buy a converter box just in case cable becomes an unaffordable luxury From kempermentor at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 20:50:37 2008 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:50:37 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Jen: > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > I > S > H > > Don't know if we need spoiler space since everyone knows the > story..... > > I'm pretty sure that's Harry running through the tall grass b/c I > spotted glasses (on the 10th plus viewing). Looks like the battle > will take place in tall waving grass?!? At least that guy looks like > he could be a DE & Ginny appears to be fighting. At first I thought > the dark-haired guy might be teen LV, but he appears to be in the > same tall grass as Harry. > > Looks like there's going to be a scene with DD putting on the ring, > which means Snape healing him too, I hope. Kemper now: I think the DE looking person might be Fenrir as he is unmasked and seems to be watching/stalking prey. I hope the fight scene isn't in the tall grass. That would be hella lame. What the hell is Ginny doing?! It would be cool if DD was putting on the ring, but it might be Hogwart's Tom taking possession of it from whatshisname. HBP is my fav as well. Kemper From mwood005 at comcast.net Wed Jul 30 21:02:46 2008 From: mwood005 at comcast.net (melody_wood14) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:02:46 -0000 Subject: Is it a hippogriph Message-ID: I thought this is interesting. It was on my road runner home page. http://www.comcast.net/data/fan/html/popup.html?v=808117925 melody_wood14 From mwood005 at comcast.net Wed Jul 30 21:04:57 2008 From: mwood005 at comcast.net (melody_wood14) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:04:57 -0000 Subject: Is it a hippogriph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "melody_wood14" wrote: > > I thought this is interesting. It was on my road runner home page. > > http://www.comcast.net/data/fan/html/popup.html?v=808117925 > It is called the montauk monster. > melody_wood14 > From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 21:14:27 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:14:27 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sandy: > > I bought my television in December, 20 inch, flat screen - not to be > confused with flat panel, it is definitely digital and it cost $130. > > Carol, look at your remote. Are the letters DTV anywhere on it, or do you have a small button with DTV/TV above or below it? If so it is a digital TV. > The letters DTV should also be on the television somewhere on the front. And if you still have your manual it will definitely tell you in it if it is digital. It would have also been on the box it came in but I doubt you still have that. Just look for the letters DTV on the remote, TV and/or in the manual. Carol responds: Oh, dear. I got taken, then. Mine was about the same price and is a flat-screen with a good picture, but neither the TV itself nor the remote nor the box (I keep everything!) says anything about DTV or digital. (I can't find the owner's manual, oddly, but I'm sure it's in the drawer with all the others, FWIW. Oh, well. I'll apply for the coupon just n case I decide to buying the converter box and an indoor antenna and give up cable. If only I'd known what I was doing when I bought that TV! Carol, thanking Sandy very much for the information From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 21:28:21 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:28:21 -0000 Subject: Potioncat's TV screen Was:Richard III - An Assessment by Horace Walpole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Potioncat: > For some reason the screen is very dark. It's not the monitor, it's > the computer. Perhaps it could be fixed, I don't know. > > I can see the picture of Richard holding the crown well enough to > know what it is. Those that are bright are OK, anything that is dim > or dark is very difficult to see. Carol responds: It sounds like a problem with your settings. Are you sure it's not the monitor? Check the buttons on the front. If there's not one for Contrast or something similar, or if there are just little icons whose meaning you don't know, just push them to see what they do. On mine, you push "Enter" to get to the settings. Strange, I know, but tech people don't seem to think like ordinary mortals. (Which reminds me of Audrey Williamson's remark about male historians, who think that Elizabeth Woodville could have come to terms with the murderer of her sons.) BTW, I found that description by Erasmus of Sir Thomas More's having one shoulder higher than the other if you're interested: "The right shoulder is a little higher than the left, especially when he walks. This is not a defect of birth, but the result of habit, such as we often contract. In the rest of his person there is nothing to offend. His hands are the least refined part of his body." http://home.netcom.com/~rjs474/thomasmore/1519lett.html Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Carol, who is pretty sure that your problem with dark images can be easily solved From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 21:43:01 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Is everyone ready to party? Birthdays X 3! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <882330.49174.qm@web63402.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Tonks: > Hey.. thanks Sheryll. Isn't she a great elf!?? I > enjoyed the party. > I had a great day. Out to dinner. Went to a movie... bad > choice. > will explain in a different post. Thanks again. > > Tonks_op > who is really old enough to be Neville's gram. Or old > enough to be a > good friend of Prof. Marchbanks, who, by the way, will be > at > Terminus too. > Sheryll: I'm guessing I'm old enough to be Neville's gram, too, considering my daughter turns 25 today! Glad you had a great time at the party. I'm guessing the dinner was better than the movie. Since I'm all about food, it sounds better than a good movie with a bad meal. :) Sheryll __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 21:52:44 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:52:44 -0000 Subject: Yearly TV Licence? ...Really? - ANSI Character Codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve wrote: > > > > > > oh and ANSI - American National Standards Institute > > > Carol earlier: > > Standards! Now there's a concept I understand. Standards for what, though? And for whom? american computer programmers? No detailed or technical responses, please, or I'll be sorry I asked. > > > > Carol, surprised that the standards aren't international > > > > bboyminn: > > Wikipedia is your friend. > > << ANSI was formed in 1918 << ANSI's membership comprises government agencies, organizations, corporations, academic and international bodies, and individuals. In total, the Institute represents the interests of more than 125,000 companies and 3.5 million professionals. > << Though ANSI itself does not develop standards, the Institute facilitates the development of American National Standards, also known as ANS, by accrediting the procedures of standards developing organizations. ANSI accreditation signifies that the procedures used by standards setting organizations meet the Institute's requirements for openness, balance, consensus, and due process. > << Voluntary consensus standards quicken the market acceptance of products while making clear how to improve the safety of those products for the protection of consumers. There are approximately 10,500 American National Standards that carry the ANSI designation. > << American National Standards include: > << * A standard for the set of values used to represent characters in digital computers. The ANSI code standard extended the previously created ASCII seven bit code standard with additional codes for European alphabets (see also Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code or EBCDIC). In Microsoft Windows, the phrase "ANSI" refers to the Windows ANSI code pages (even though they are not ANSI standards[1]). Most of these are fixed width, though some characters for ideographic languages are variable width. Since these characters are based on a draft of the ISO-8859 series, some of Microsoft's symbols are visually very similar to the ISO symbols, leading many to falsely assume that they are identical.>> > > Aren't you glad you asked. :) > > Steve/bluewizard > Carol: Erm, well, I'd rather you had paraphrased the article in ordinary English than quoting these snippets. That last paragraph is untelligible. Also, I wouldn't call Wiki my friend; the articles vary greatly in readability and reliability. (I wouldn't cite one as a source for a scholarly book or article!) Anyway, I understand enough for my purposes. Thank you for trying. Carol, who knows just enough about computers to use one for work and recreation and fix a few minor problems From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 21:59:18 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:59:18 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jen wrote: > BTW, here's my first ever attempt at a tinyurl link since the > moviefone link didn't work. This worked OK in my own browser: > > http://tinyurl.com/6h2hd3 > Hope that works. Carol responds: How did you do that? It works beautifully. Jen: > S P O I L E R I S H > > Don't know if we need spoiler space since everyone knows the > story..... > > I'm pretty sure that's Harry running through the tall grass b/c I spotted glasses (on the 10th plus viewing). Looks like the battle will take place in tall waving grass?!? At least that guy looks like he could be a DE & Ginny appears to be fighting. At first I thought the dark-haired guy might be teen LV, but he appears to be in the same tall grass as Harry. > > Looks like there's going to be a scene with DD putting on the ring, which means Snape healing him too, I hope. > Carol: That's odd. The teaser trailer I saw just showed Harry's excursion into the Pensieve to see Tom Riddle at the orphanage. Is there more than one? I didn't see any tall grass or any battle or DD putting on the ring. Carol, going back to the page you "tiny-urled" to see what I missed From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 22:25:49 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:25:49 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: S P O I L E R S P A C E Jen: > > Don't know if we need spoiler space since everyone knows the story..... Carol: Neither do I, but I'm keeping it in case some people don't want the movie spoiled. BTW, shouldn't we be discussing this over on the movie site? Jen: > > I'm pretty sure that's Harry running through the tall grass b/c I spotted glasses (on the 10th plus viewing). Looks like the battle will take place in tall waving grass?!? At least that guy looks like he could be a DE & Ginny appears to be fighting. At first I thought the dark-haired guy might be teen LV, but he appears to be in the same tall grass as Harry. > > > > Looks like there's going to be a scene with DD putting on the ring, which means Snape healing him too, I hope. Carol: I went back and rewatched the trailer using stop action (thank you, QuickTime!), pausing on those scenes that I'd thought (except for adult Voldemort and DD in the cave) were directly related to what Child!Tom was saying. I hadn't realized that it was Harry running through the tall grass or that the girl in the bathrobe was Ginny (she's gotten prettier and looks much more grown up--in fact, I wondered who she was). Nor did I realize that the person lying on the carpet was Ron after he's poisoned. He looks dead! > > Kemper now: > I think the DE looking person might be Fenrir as he is unmasked and > seems to be watching/stalking prey. I hope the fight scene isn't in > the tall grass. That would be hella lame. Carol responds: It can't be the fight scene, which takes place in the Great Hall (and Fenrir, I hope, will be Petrified. (Will the voice casting the spell give us a clue as to who saved Harry, or will they be "lame" and have Harry cast it?) I suspect that the tall grass is from the chase scene where Harry runs after Snape and Draco, pursued by the Carrows and Thorfinn and Rowle. (I can't wait to see the duel with Snape, but probably they didn't want to spoil that scene.) Kemper: > What the hell is Ginny doing?! Carol: Waiting for Draco to come out of the RoR/ Not sure. I need to watch it again. Kemper: > It would be cool if DD was putting on the ring, but it might be Hogwart's Tom taking possession of it from whatshisname. Carol: It has to be DD putting on the ring. The Gaunts (whathisname is Morfin) are apparently being left out. Carol, who can't believe how unobservant she is when it comes to trailers! From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 22:52:00 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:52:00 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: S P O I L E R S P A C E Kemper: > > What the hell is Ginny doing?! > Carol earlier: > Waiting for Draco to come out of the RoR/ Not sure. I need to watch it again. Carol again: Look closely at her wand at the beginning of the snippet--some sort of spell is coming out of it. Oddly, it's pointing downwards. She doesn't seem to be dueling. I guess I'll just reiterate Kemper's question. > Kemper: > > It would be cool if DD was putting on the ring, but it might be > Hogwart's Tom taking possession of it from whatshisname. > Carol earlier: > It has to be DD putting on the ring. The Gaunts (whathisname is > Morfin) are apparently being left out. Carol again: Take a look at those gnarled old hands. They can't be Tom's. Also, the hand is wearing several other rings, and DD in the Pensieve scene is wearing at least one, the large gold one that the gnarled hand is also wearing. There seems to be a pinkie ring, too, but from the position of the fingers, it's barely visible. (oho! On yet another viewing, I see that it *is* Dumbledore. You just have to stop it in the right place, immediately after Voldemort flashes onto the screen. (BTW, DD is putting the ring Horcrux on his ring finger, which is already wearing that big cross-shaped ring. What the? I'd have chosen another finger or the other hand!) Carol, who thinks that he bearded DE does look like Greyback, who shouldn't be in that scene Also, can anyone help me with Mrs. Cole's words? I can understand "Since he's been here, he's never had a visitor," but not what comes before that. From willsonkmom at msn.com Thu Jul 31 00:34:01 2008 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:34:01 -0000 Subject: Old movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Annemehr: > > I do everything backwards -- I was pretty much all conservative when > I was young, and I'm pretty much all liberal now. Potioncat: I tend to be more consevative than librals and more libral than conservatives. I guess I'm a dyed in the wool moderate. At any rate, I think I'm more tolerant than I was in my youth. Back then I "knew" so much more and was always right. > >Annemehr: > I loved "Chocolat" -- and someone told me it was an even better book! Potioncat: Good movie, and yes, even better book. The movie has blended some characters, omited some sub-plots. Think HP books to movies and you'll get the idea. Joanna Barnes (I'm not sure that's right) is one of my favorite authors. (You'd think I'd know her name!) From s_ings at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 02:39:43 2008 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:39:43 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Christian! Message-ID: *sweeps confetti from the last party under the carpet and starts blowing up balloons and hanging streamers* *stops and stares at the clock and tells the marching band to stop playing* Well spit, as my mother would say. Should never have sat down on the couch after dinner. Christian's probably asleep by now, what with the difference in time zones. *sigh* Today's birthday honouree is Christian. Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to Christian at: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no The food and drinks are here. Don't touch the cake until Christian gets his piece, okay? Okay? Hey, are you listening??? I hope your day was filled with good friends, good food and all things wonderful. Happy Birthday, Christian! Sheryll the Birthday Elf, delighted to count Christian among the people she's met in RL through this list :D From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 02:55:21 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:55:21 -0000 Subject: Is everyone ready to party? Birthdays X 3! In-Reply-To: <882330.49174.qm@web63402.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > Tonks_op > > who is really old enough to be Neville's gran. Or old > > enough to be a good friend of Prof. Marchbanks, who, by > > the way, will be at Terminus too. > > > Sheryll: > > I'm guessing I'm old enough to be Neville's gran, too, > considering my daughter turns 25 today! Mike: Oh you are not, Sheryll. Neville turned 28 today, July 30, 2008. Happy birthday to the Nagini slayer. That's three years *older* than your daughter, let alone any granchillins you may have. I'm older than you and I have one granchillin, and I'm only 4 years older than James and Lily. Mike, who's not sure about Tonks_op, but knows she was once *AU* married to Dumbledore, so who knows ;-) From mcrudele78 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 03:41:51 2008 From: mcrudele78 at yahoo.com (Mike) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:41:51 -0000 Subject: Cable TV & Digital Broadcasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol, who intends to apply for a coupon and buy a converter box > just in case cable becomes an unaffordable luxury Mike: Well, I braved the phone and called my cable provider. The nice lady explained that though the over-the-air broadcasts *must* switch to digital broadcast, there's no such restriction on the signal sent through the cable. So they will continue to transmit the analog signal as well as the digital signal, just like they're doing now. Which makes sense for them. So, if you have cable, then you're good to go whether or not you use a cable box. BTW, I used to have just the cable internet and was using the Dish for my TV. When I packaged my ISP, TV, and phone together, I got cable TV with more channels than I was getting with the Dish and got unlimited phone calling (land line) for the same cost as I was paying for just my internet and the Dish. So essentially I got unlimited calling for free. Then I negotiated with cable and got HBO and Cinemax thrown in for free. I highly recommend this. Get on the phone and haggle with them and they'll usually throw something in for you for free. So for me, cable is the most affordable luxury and my lifeline to the internet. I can't think what I'd do for an ISP if I didn't have it. Kemper, the over-the-air signal is in the electro-magnetic spectrum. "Radio waves" isn't really a designation, but I s'pose they would be the part of that spectrum that the radio uses. Radio and TV frequencies overlap just a bit. When I was a kid and there weren't near as many signals out there, we could tune in a local radio station on our TV. And when I used to drive across Canada, not so long ago, I could pick up the audio of what I think is called TV-2 on the lower end of my FM band. It was rather fun to listen to the audio and try to picture the action the TV watchers were seeing. Mike, who had tapes of the old "Shadow" radio program for long drives that feuled my imagination as well as reading books and can easily understand the mystique that surrounded those programs. They were wonderful mind candy and I listened to them over and over like I reread my HP books From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 03:41:49 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:41:49 -0000 Subject: Old movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: > I tend to be more consevative than librals and more libral than conservatives. I guess I'm a dyed in the wool moderate. At any rate, I think I'm more tolerant than I was in my youth. Back then I "knew" so much more and was always right. Carol responds: So you had your Hermione phase, too? I don't have anything to add to this picture except that I identify with it completely--and it's very hard to choose a Presidential candidate when there's nobody in the middle! I do remember being told in eighth grade by a student whose views were even more liberal than mine were at the time, "The middle of the road is a good place to get run over." I didn't have any response to this witticism and still don't, except maybe the wisdom of Aristotle: moderation in all things. Carol, who found out that she wasn't always right by getting married at age twenty From stevejjen at earthlink.net Thu Jul 31 03:50:19 2008 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:50:19 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol: > Also, can anyone help me with Mrs. Cole's words? I can understand > "Since he's been here, he's never had a visitor," but not what comes > before that. Jen: Wah. I wrote a long message with snipped comments, etc., and lost it when my computer shut down. :( Mrs. Cole: "In all the years Tom's been here, he's never once had a visitor..." I agree that's Greyback, Kemper, because there's a throaty growl when the guy comes on-screen. And Carol, I looked at a cast list and only see the Carrows & Yaxley from the DEs we met in HBP. Guess that means they'll take liberties. Oh! One interesting thing is Regulus is in this movie, something about appearing in a photo in Slughorn's office and some other scene the actor can't reveal. (Tom Moorcroft is the actor). Anyway, you're probably right this is best on the movie list, Carol. Although I think anything is OK here IIRC from my elf days. Jen, hoping this one makes it through. From marion11111 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 13:43:36 2008 From: marion11111 at yahoo.com (marion11111) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:43:36 -0000 Subject: Cable TV & Digital Broadcasts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Mike: > Well, I braved the phone and called my cable provider. The nice lady > explained that though the over-the-air broadcasts *must* switch to > digital broadcast, there's no such restriction on the signal sent > through the cable. So they will continue to transmit the analog > signal as well as the digital signal, just like they're doing now. > Which makes sense for them. > > So, if you have cable, then you're good to go whether or not you use > a cable box. > > BTW, I used to have just the cable internet and was using the Dish > for my TV. When I packaged my ISP, TV, and phone together, I got > cable TV with more channels than I was getting with the Dish and got > unlimited phone calling (land line) for the same cost as I was paying > for just my internet and the Dish. So essentially I got unlimited > calling for free. > > Then I negotiated with cable and got HBO and Cinemax thrown in for > free. I highly recommend this. Get on the phone and haggle with them > and they'll usually throw something in for you for free. > > So for me, cable is the most affordable luxury and my lifeline to the > internet. I can't think what I'd do for an ISP if I didn't have it. > marion: I have a mixed relationship with my cable provider. I love the unlimited long-distance on my land-line and the very fast internet. I'm not so crazy about the customer service or the pricing schemes. I have Comcast and we went through two years in my area with service being down a couple times a month. To call them (with the phone down no less) and find out the problem was enough to make you insane. Such a run-around. With enough complaining and questions about "How do I get out of this contract," they would lower the price for a few months, but then up it right back as soon as they could. The "introductory rates" are not available to exisitng customers and the penalty for leaving the contract early would negate the savings of quitting and then starting up again. When I asked one service rep why they would sometimes offer to lower the monthly fee, she told me that they've been given permission to lower the fees for a few months if it sounds like the customer is planning to leave. Well, I don't have time to call in every couple months and make threats. So. . . . while they have said over and over "Don't worryabout the switch, we've got you covered at no extra cost," I don't believe them. We just lost another channel last week off the Basic Plus package and would have to pay for the Digital package to get it. I have no doubt there will be *something* available for the cheap users, but I'd bet that it will be minimal compared to what we get now. I'm preparing to have to switch to the higher priced package to get most of the standard cable channels. The government *might* be doing this to save lives in the event of a crisis (taking this rationale with a grain of salt), but the businesses will exploit this opportunity as far as they can. And why not? It's capitalism. I'm reminded of the OLD version of the Dick and Jane movie where the couple tries to become robbers and they go in to hold up the phone company. All the people standing in line to pay their bills and get their service restored give them a round of applause. I feel the same lack of love for cable providers. From kempermentor at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 15:24:53 2008 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:24:53 -0000 Subject: Old movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol responds: > > I do remember being told in eighth grade by a student whose views were > even more liberal than mine were at the time, "The middle of the road > is a good place to get run over." I didn't have any response to this > witticism and still don't, except maybe the wisdom of Aristotle: > moderation in all things. Kemper now: I guess there's some truth in the kid's statement, but there is a liberal/libertarian slant to Aristotle's advise which gets you out of the middle of the road. You're safe from getting hit. Kemper From tonks_op at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 17:08:02 2008 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:08:02 -0000 Subject: Is everyone ready to party? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote: > > Mike, who's not sure about Tonks_op, but knows she was once *AU* > married to Dumbledore, so who knows ;-) Tonks: I was in love with Dumbledore. I have always liked older men. Course now as I am older myself... the older men are all dead.. Today is July 31st... Happy Birthday HARRY POTTER!!!!!!!!! Tonks_op From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 20:29:07 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:29:07 -0000 Subject: HBP Trailer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > > Also, can anyone help me with Mrs. Cole's words? I can understand "Since he's been here, he's never had a visitor," but not what comes before that. > > Jen: Wah. I wrote a long message with snipped comments, etc., and lost it when my computer shut down. :( Carol again: I hope your computer problem is fixed! That happened to me several times last year--turned out to be a faulty power supply, which, fortunately, was covered by warranty. I can't tell you how many times I've lost message on various Yahoo groups for various reasons thar I won't go into here. Anyway, I sympathize and empathize. Jen: > Mrs. Cole: "In all the years Tom's been here, he's never once had a visitor..." Carol responds: Thanks. That's what the shot-by-shot analysis that I linked to in the movie group said as well, so it must be right. Also, now that I know what she's saying, I can "hear" (understand, interpret) her words. I don't know whether it's my ears, the sound quality (does HD relate only to the video or to the audio as well?) or just my relative lack of exposure to British accents other than "received pronunciation." (I have no trouble understanding Hagrid, though.) Anyway, did anyone else find Mrs. Cole difficult to understand? Jen: > I agree that's Greyback, Kemper, because there's a throaty growl when the guy comes on-screen. Carol: Yes. so do I, just from the look of him. And Ginny, on closer examination, has been hit by an Expelliarmus--her wand flies out of her hand. I'm afraid that's the added scene, which suggests, unfortunately, that thy'll leave out "The Flight of the Prince." I hope I'm wrong! Jen: And Carol, I looked at a cast list and only see the Carrows & Yaxley from the DEs we met in HBP. Guess that means they'll take liberties. Carol responds: I agree that they;'' take liberties, but I imagine there will be some unnamed DEs in the fight with the Order members and the DA (Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna, Neville). The DEs in OoP aren't all named, either. Interesting, though, that the named DEs (plus Greyback) are the ones on the tower. That scene will probably be by the book, but, obviously, the long conversation between DD and Draco will be shortened. They always cut the exposition (too much, in OoP, IMO). I expect that the hospital scene will be cut, too, since Bill isn't in the cast. Jen: > Oh! One interesting thing is Regulus is in this movie, something about appearing in a photo in Slughorn's office and some other scene the actor can't reveal. (Tom Moorcroft is the actor). Carol: Yeah, I know. We talked about that on the other list. I guess they realized that Regulus, who'd been omitted from the OoP film, had a small but important role to play in DH and had better be introduced somehow! Carol, noting that Narcissa, Slughorn, and the actors who play them have also been discussed on the Movie list, along with various photos that have appeared online, if anyone wants to check it out From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 20:35:07 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:35:07 -0000 Subject: Is everyone ready to party? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks wrote: > Today is July 31st... Happy Birthday HARRY POTTER!!!!!!!!! Carol responds: And, lest we forget, JKR herself. And happy belated birthday to Neville. Carol, wondering if we could (virtually) sing "Happy Birthday, dear Harry" in this forum without violating copyright laws From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 31 21:29:22 2008 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:29:22 -0000 Subject: Film Locations, for movie buffs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: potioncat wrote: > > I started watching "Lassie, Come Home" a little while ago. I made it to the first tear-jerking scene, and had to bail. > > The introduction describes the area as Yorkshire. Between activity on this list and other reading interests, I was very interested in seeing the lovely countryside. Only...Yorkshire seemed a bit familiar. > > Thanks to another thread on this site, I went to IMDB and discovered "why" Yorkshire seemed so familiar! I used to live there when my husband and I were stationed in California. > > So, all you Brits out there. If we really want to see English country, can you recommend some movies/websites? Carol responds: Sorry for the belated response. Obviously, I'm not a Brit, but I do know that one of the most famous books set in Yorkshire is "Wuthering Heights. I finally got around to checking out the IMDb, and, sure enough, the most recent film version (1992) is set there: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0104181/locations You can click on the links to find other films that use the same locations. Carol, wondering whether anyone has seen this version of WH, which stars Ralph Fiennes (yes, Voldemort himself) as Heathcliff, and whether it's any good