Stonewall High (was RE: Question for British list members (school years))

[Geoff Bannister]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Lee wrote:
> > > If, at the age of 11, kids in the UK are going into the 6th grade,
> how can Harry be going to Stonewall High?  Does High School start at
> 6th grade?
>  
> > Geoff:
> > No. Pupils in the UK will reach 11 while they are in Year 6.
> > 
> > Harry is eleven on 31/07/91. Since his birthday is before the cutoff
> date of 31/08/91, he is i the "11+" category by 01/09/91 so is
> eligible to go into the First Year at both Stonewall and Hogwarts. In
> modern terms, that is Year 7.
> >
> Carol responds:
> Lee, as I understand it, Year 7 is the same as our sixth grade because
>  the UK's Year 1 is the same as our kindergarten (only with a full day
> rather than a half day of school).
> 
> So a UK high school would be like a combined middle school and high
> school in the U.S.--their sixth through eleventh years, which equates
> to our fifth through tenth grades. 

Geoff:
"High school" became rather fashionable as a title when the comprehensive 
programme was launched by the Wilson government back in the sixties as 
I outlined in a recent post. A more modern game is to call the top school in 
your structure a "Community College".

I think the best thing I can do to try to anchor dates and ages etc. for 
comparison with the US arrangement is to stick to the "11+" point in time. 
Under old system, this year was when a pupil transferred to a Secondary 
school and went into First Year - the First year as Harry knows it at Hogwarts. 
This year is now known as Year 7 in schools in England and Wales. I think 
this is also true of Scottish schools but please remember that the Scottish 
education system operates independently of Wales and England.

To define it again, a pupil enters Year 7, in the September which follows 
the academic year in which they became 11. In other words, a pupil entering 
Year 7 this year, technically from 01/09/08 must have reached the age of 11 
between 01/09/07 and 31/08/08.

If you step this back or forward a year at a time, you can see how this relates 
to earlier or later years.

In some cases, a school's structure will be the same as the US setup. It
depends what the LEA has put in place. As I have said previously, all state 
schools transferred pupils to Secondary schools at 11+ until the late 1960s. 
At that point in time, a large number of LEAs opted to go for a three-tier 
"middle school" structure with transfer to the most senior school being at 
13+ so that those schools operating like this today (as they do in my area) 
have a Year 9, 10 and 11 followed usually by a Sixth Form, unless they have 
a centralised Sixth Form College arrangement.

In recent years there has been some backtracking towards the 11+ structure 
again. In the area where I used to teach I started in 1961 in an 11+ (entry at 
Year 7) setup until 1969 when we changed to a Middle school/High  school 
system at 13+ with High schools carrying Years 9-11 plus Sixth Form. then 
in 1990, we changed to a High school with Year 8-11 and pupils going to a 
Sixth Form College after that. The latest I headr is that they are now moving 
back to a transfer at Year 7. Help. It ain't easy to follow.

Carol:
> Geoff, please correct me if I'm wrong, but a high school (as opposed
> to a "public" school like Eton) wouldn't have the last two years (the
> upper and lower sixth form), which correspond to our eleventh and
> twelfth grades (junior and senior years). Is that correct? I get the
> idea that state schools provide free education but the students who
> attend them are generally either working class students or those who
> for some reasons did poorly on exams and don't plan to attend a
> university.

Geoff:
You need to realise that the private sector, i.e. Public schools and other 
private schools make up a very small percentage of  UK schools. Pupils go 
to these because parents /choose/ them for their offspring and pay for the 
privilege.  And some fee-paying schools also operate an entrance exam 
scheme, The great majority of UK pupils are in the state system. Unless an 
LEA has opted for a Sixth Form College, then they will have a High school/
Community College/secondary school (call it what you will!) with a Sixth 
Form. All state schooling is free. The divisions between grammar schools, 
where you had to pass the 11+ exam to get in, and secondary moderns 
which were for the rest have largely been removed by the introduction of 
comprehensive schools.