Stonewall High (was RE: Question for British list members (school years))

[Geoff Bannister]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Geoff (earlier):
> > A UK joke is that Public schools are not public in its normal
> sense. They are fee-paying, private schools sometimes with `
> background of having been established by philanthropists or charitable
> bodies. Some have entrance exams which can award scholarships so that
> clever children from poorer backgrounds can gain access. They include
> schools such as Harrow, Eton and Rugby. There are also a fair number
> of private schools established independently in more recent years.

> Carol:
> So, essentially, you have only the same three public schools that
> existed in the early nineteenth century? (Byron attended Harrow and
> Shelley, Eton.) Do they admit girls now and are they still as
> prestigious as they once were? 

Geoff:
Oh dear, it seems that every time I try to clarify a point, it is 
misunderstood.
:-(

I wrote "They /include/ schools such as Harrow, Eton and 
Rugby." If I may quote from the Public Schools Guide:

"A public school, in common English and Welsh usage, is 
a (usually) prestigious school, for children usually between 
the ages of 11 or 13 and 18, which charges fees and is not 
financed by the state.

It is traditionally a single-sex boarding school, although 
many now accept day pupils and are coeducational. The 
majority date back to the 18th or 19th centuries, and 
several are over 400 years old."

The oldest public school I believe is Westminster, which 
was founded as early as 1179, while the three I mentioned 
above were founded in, respectively, 1572, 1440 and 1567. 
The list of public schools and independent schools is very 
long - possibly a couple of hundred- - but I repeat what I 
said earlier that they make up only a very small part of the 
UK school system.

Geoff (earlier):
> > As I described, prior to the 1960s Labour government initiatives,
> all children in state schools took the "11+" exam. If you were
> successful, you could go to a grammar school which would have a Sixth
> Form and would also put pupils through the Matric exams - GCE after
> 1951. <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> Is "grammar school" equivalent to public school? I know that in
> Shelley's day, they didn't teach *English* grammar at all. the boys
> were expected to know Latin already, and, IIRC, they began learning
> Greek on entering Eton. What else they studied, I don't recall. I'm
> sure that the modern curriculum is very different. 

Geoff:
No. A grammar school was a school which taught more subjects to 
pupils who had shown themselves to be competent enough to take 
the extra subjects. (I will refrain from saying cleverer because that 
might give the wrong impression cos I went to a grammar school!). 
They would teach to the Matric level (or GCE post-1951) and included 
languages in their curriculum.

Geoff (earlier):
> > The comprehensive school brought all children under one roof. They 
> were bigger and therefore had more facilities to deal with a wide
> range or educational needs and aspirations. <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> So they're "comprehensive" in that they take students of all ages, say
> five through eighteen, and all abilities (no entrance exam), with
> preparation for university-bound students along with vocational
> training for those who want a job straight out of school? If all state
> schools are comprehensive, where do the secondary schools fit in? Are
> they on the same grounds as the primary and elementary schools (if I
> have the terms right--I don't dare go upthread with a feeble modem
> that could go out at any moment) but in a separate building?

Geoff:
No. 

I thought I had made it clear that the comprehensive schools were 
intended to remove the selection - and possible stigma - attached to 
the "11+" exam which had to be passed to gain entry to a grammar (or 
technical) school. Hence, the word only applies to schools operating 
from either our Year 7 or 8 or 9 (dependant on transfer age) through 
to the Upper Sixth.

So the current set up is, in a traditional system:
First/Infant school Years 1-2
Junior school Years 3-6 These two are often combined or share a site
Secondary/High/Community College (comprehensive) Years 7-11 + Sixth

or a three-tier Middle school system
Primary/First school Years 1-4
Middle school Years 5-8
Secondary/High/Community College (comprehensive) Years 9-11 + Sixth

Just to be confusing  (I have a degree in that!!), some LEAs operate a Middle School system 
where the transfer age bands are Years 1-3/4-7/8+

I've taught in all three formats without changing school.

Some secondary schools may share a site with younger groups but will 
have separate buildings.