Lord Voldemort, the nature of evil, and politics

[Tonks]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" 
<sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
> Magpie:
> I don't understand what this thread is about. If you have some dark 
> rumor about Axelrod or whoever, just say it instead of hinting darkly 
> about information the rest of us don't know. (Not that saying it will 
> necessarily make it true, of course. This election has certainly been 
> full of dark hints of evil that nobody knows about.) 

Tonks:
I posted a question about evil in general. I didn't really want to get 
into specifics about the election and who did what to whom or to disect 
the process of the 'making of a President". I am sick of all of it at 
this point. What I am referring to is the dirty nature of 'politics as 
usual'. And I will admit that Obama's campaign was the best organized 
ever. They did not miss a beat. Ever trick in the book and then some. 
Every trick in the political book and the community org. book and 
Psychology too. I could write a book on what they did and how. In fact 
Saul Alinksy wrote at least one of their play books, in "Rules for 
Radicals". These tactics is what I have objected too. When will we step 
forward and say "enough!" Or in HP terms, can a Death Eater ever "speak 
truth to power"? Sadly, I know the answer to that. LV does not forgive. 

As I said I really want to have a more philosophical discussion about 
evil and when, if ever, is it OK. Do the ends justify the means, as 
Saul Alinsky teaches?  His methods include humiliating the opposition 
which was done in this election mostly by Obama. McCain tired it once, 
but he didn't do it well, perhaps because he is not the sort of man who 
could do those kinds of things, and I admire him for that. (and I am a 
Democrat)

Alinsky says "Power is the very essence, the dynamo of life... It is a 
world not of angels but of angles, where men speak of moral principles 
but act on power principles." Sounds a bit Voldemortist to me.

I think I said what I wanted to discuss best in my first post. Are 
those of us, the majority of people able to live our day to day lives 
in relative peace BECAUSE the people like Lord Voldemort are at the 
head of our country? When 9-11 happened I remember thinking to myself, 
even when I hated Bush, that 'thank God there are people in charge of 
this country that can make the hard decisions to do real evil to 
others. We could not really have Gandhi or even Jesus as our 
President". At the same time I wondered, as I often do, why the human 
race can not do better. Can we not rise above all of this? We were made 
to be more than savages. And when it comes to politics, even savages 
are superior to us. 

What I am pondering is the sort of things that people ponder when they 
wonder if there is such a thing as a 'just war' or if those who plotted 
the murder of Hitler were evil or heroes. That is what I am wondering. 
If you want me to be more specific... let me put it this way..

If a group of people do things that are unethical, amoral, perhaps even 
illegal, but the end result is for the common good, is that evil or 
good? I tend to think that ethics is important, and that common human 
decency of one person to another is also the right thing to do. But if 
you degrade and destroy others to rise to the top, if you lie, cheat, 
etc.,  and your being at the top benefits the majority of people, is 
that right in the end? I really do not know the answer, because I do 
not think it is a simple answer for any truly moral person. I am 
looking forward to a serious discussion of the nature of evil and of  
power...  Of course, DD would say that the greatest power is Love... 
but perhaps, as my political friend said (see first post), DD is an 
idealist.