Lord Voldemort, the nature of evil, and politics

[sistermagpie]

> Tonks:

> I wasn't too keen on the way that Obama jokes about the woman 
> running against him. He gave Hillary the finger. See video. 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoOFp-RDpvM&feature=related

Magpie:
I'm not convinced that his scratching the side of his face with his 
middle finger is giving Hillary Clinton the finger. But if he was I 
don't know if I'd immediately read it as sexist as opposed to just 
childish. She made fun of him in her speeches too.

Tonks:
> And he called Sarah a pig with lipstick, and don't tell me that was 
> something else. 

Magpie:
Why can't I tell you it was something else? He used a common 
expression to describe McCain's economic plan. It had nothing to do 
with her. As he himself even pointed out, if he had even been 
referring to SP at all in that comment she would have been the 
lipstick, not the pig. He and SP both happened to use expressions 
with the word lipstick in them. That does not add up to Obama calling 
Sarah Palin a pig. To use that statement as an example of Obama 
insulting a woman in a sexist way makes me doubt your claims about 
the alleged problem of his sexism. And from my own perspectives about 
sexism it's hard to imagine getting stuck on these remarks while 
brushing aside Sarah Palin's actual stands on things like a woman's 
control over her own body as just coming with the package. It seems 
more anti-Obama than concern over a threat to feminism.  

Tonks:
 Also it was a slap 
> in the face to Hillary when he chose the woman that she fired to be 
> the VP's secretary before we knew who that would be. Little things 
> add up after awhile. Just you wait and see...  He has a pattern of 
> joking about women... the Republicans are all up in arms about his 
> saying he didn't do a Nancy Reagan thing and try to channel Ronald. 
> I think he hadn't slept in a few days when he said that, but 
> still... just watch what he does and says and tell me again in 6 
> months that you don't think he is a sexist.

Magpie:
So far the only things you've come up with for his "pattern" is him 
scratching his face and him making a comment that had nothing to do 
with any woman whatsoever--while having platforms that imo are far 
better for women than McCain's. Nor is his Nancy Reagan comment 
sexist. He referred to the well-known story of Nancy Reagan using 
astrologists. I don't see how that's sexist just because she's a 
woman. It was inappropriate and he apologized (Hillary's made 
inappropriate comments too, as has Bill and McCain and Palin), but I 
don't see how it's sexist to make a joke about seances by referencing 
a famous woman known for using psychics in the White House. (Frankly, 
my feminist radar was more confused by McCain's saying he was "proud 
of" Palin as if he were her father in a debate.)


> Susan said: 
> > 
> > Palin said he was "palling around with terrorists."
> 
> Tonk:
> "Palling around with" is not the same as being one. So again, I say 
> that she and the McCain campaign never called Obama a terrorist. It 
> only meant to show that Obama is open to the idea of the far left 
> wing folks in Chicago. 

Magpie:
"Palling around with" means "endorsing what they do." Being open to 
terrorist ideas, iow. If you want to say somebody is open to far left-
wing ideas (which they also certainly said in calling him a Marxist 
and a Socialist) you say that, you don't say they're palling around 
with terrorists. Terrorist isn't a synonym for far left wing folks in 
Chicago. It's a buzz word for people who are coming to kill you.

  
> Tonks:
> I lived during that time and remember it. Who is Jeff? All I know 
is 
> William. They were here in Michigan. Ann Arbor. Bernadette Dhorn, 
> who later became his wife, was far worse than him. Some say that 
> Michelle is good friends with her since they once worked together, 
> but I don't know about that, could just be more of those ugly 
> election lies. I do know the connection between Obama and Ayers was 
> not as casual as Obama wants us to believe. The concern about the 
> connection is not about bombs, it is about political philosophy. 
All 
> Obama really had to say was "yes when I was younger I was smitten 
by 
> Marxist ideas, but I have grown since then and will govern from the 
> center." But for some reason he didn't say that, and it gave fuel 
to 
> the other side to point out that he seems to be hiding something 
> there. 

Magpie:
Maybe he's not saying that because it isn't true that he was ever 
particularly smitten with Marxist ideas and doesn't pal around with 
terrorists. I didn't live during that time. I lived during the time 
where ex-60s radicals were not uncommon teaching in academia. 

-m