From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  2 18:25:36 2008
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:25:36 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
Message-ID: <g9k0f0+44ou@eGroups.com>

http://men.style.com/details/blogs/thegadabout/2008/09/daniel-
radcliff.html#more

Wow.  GREAT article on Dan Radcliffe!  Warning, though:  If you're fond 
of Dan for a sort of G-rated, or at most PG-rated, Harry Potter and 
don't want to have that image of him spoiled, you maybe will want to 
pass over this interview.  He's quite grown up and there's no denying 
it from the things he says and the topics covered.

I think the kid is great!

Siriusly Snapey Susan






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep  3 06:39:38 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:39:38 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9k0f0+44ou@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9lbfa+gciu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" <susiequsie23 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> http://men.style.com/details/blogs/thegadabout/2008/09/daniel-
> radcliff.html#more

Siriusly Snapey Susan
> Wow.  GREAT article on Dan Radcliffe!  Warning, though:  If you're fond 
> of Dan for a sort of G-rated, or at most PG-rated, Harry Potter and 
> don't want to have that image of him spoiled, you maybe will want to 
> pass over this interview.  He's quite grown up and there's no denying 
> it from the things he says and the topics covered.
 
> I think the kid is great!

Geoff:
I agree that Dan is a great young man but there are parts about 
this article which irritate me.

So we start with him practising an American accent. But is it 
necessary to emphasise the bad language? It is quoted twice. 
I don't claim to be a prude but the f-word annoys me - 
particularly  the form used in the article.

As a follow-up, why is he practising with the accent for "Equus"? 
This is an English play, set in England and about an English 
character.....

There is a lot of information about him which is already known - 
his literary tastes and such. There was a very good article in 
"The Observer" last year just before he debuted in London which 
was very revealing. This article, to English eyes is rather 
Americanised in places and I dislike the odd innuendo about, for 
example, how he celebrated his 16th birthday. OK, so he's 
growing up but give him a bit of private life.

Right. morning gripe over.  Have a good day guys.
:-)




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 13:57:20 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:57:20 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9lbfa+gciu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9m540+sa1a@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
<SNIP>
> There is a lot of information about him which is already known - 
> his literary tastes and such. There was a very good article in 
> "The Observer" last year just before he debuted in London which 
> was very revealing. This article, to English eyes is rather 
> Americanised in places and I dislike the odd innuendo about, for 
> example, how he celebrated his 16th birthday. OK, so he's 
> growing up but give him a bit of private life.
> 
> Right. morning gripe over.  Have a good day guys.
> :-)


Alla:

I loved the article. I confess to not reading or listening to too many 
of Dan's interviews before and I know that this one is not completely 
an interview, but still. I was always fond of Dan's acting and believe 
that his acting matures very nicely with every movie, but I never 
exactly had been a fan of his or any other actor.

I really like the guy now. OMG, he is intelligent and well read. That 
is actually a reason why I almost never listen to actors being 
interviewed.

See, after listening to some of them, I had an inexplicable urge to 
say, could you please shut up and just stay there and look pretty?

It seems to me that so many celebrities cannot put two words together 
and talk about something coherently. Books, what books.

Anyways, yes I loved the article and I was laughing my head off reading 
some comments about it on leaky. OMG, he seems too mature for his age. 
No, really?

I guess he should talk about parties, then it will be just fine and 
dandy.

Alla





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 14:01:51 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:01:51 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9lbfa+gciu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9m5cf+85f1@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
<SNIP>
This article, to English eyes is rather 
> Americanised in places and I dislike the odd innuendo about, for 
> example, how he celebrated his 16th birthday. OK, so he's 
> growing up but give him a bit of private life.
> 
> Right. morning gripe over.  Have a good day guys.
> :-)
>


Alla:

Ugh, should have combined two posts. Oh well. Geoff, why would the 
article written by american writer not been americanized? I mean, I 
see what you are saying about him practicing american accent for 
english play, that does sound wierd for me too, but this is not Dan's 
words, but writer's, yes. Maybe Dan is practicing because he wants to 
learn it, and writer wrote it the way it seems that he is practicing 
it for the play.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep  3 16:46:23 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:46:23 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9m5cf+85f1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9mf0v+flls@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> <SNIP>
> This article, to English eyes is rather 
> > Americanised in places and I dislike the odd innuendo about, for 
> > example, how he celebrated his 16th birthday. OK, so he's 
> > growing up but give him a bit of private life.
> > 
> > Right. morning gripe over.  Have a good day guys.
> > :-)
 
> Alla:
> 
> Ugh, should have combined two posts. Oh well. Geoff, why would the 
> article written by american writer not been americanized? I mean, I 
> see what you are saying about him practicing american accent for 
> english play, that does sound wierd for me too, but this is not Dan's 
> words, but writer's, yes. Maybe Dan is practicing because he wants to 
> learn it, and writer wrote it the way it seems that he is practicing 
> it for the play.

Geoff:
Sorry for not being too clear, Alla. I wasn't referring to American accents. 
If I had read the article without knowing its origins, I would have pegged 
it as American. It's very difficult to define, but there is something about 
the linguistic style of the article and the way in which material is chosen 
and assembled which screams "American" at me.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 16:53:23 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:53:23 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9mf0v+flls@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9mfe3+oeaq@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Sorry for not being too clear, Alla. I wasn't referring to American 
accents. 
> If I had read the article without knowing its origins, I would have 
pegged 
> it as American. It's very difficult to define, but there is 
something about 
> the linguistic style of the article and the way in which material 
is chosen 
> and assembled which screams "American" at me.
>


Alla:

Oh, I understood that point, I mean maybe I am confused about what 
you meant about the accents, but I understood that article in general 
seemed americanized to you.

It also seemed to me that this was one of your points of contention 
with the article was exactly that - that it was americanized.

I mean, of course you either like or dislike the article just as any 
written work, but if you dislike the article because it was 
americanized and not for any other reason, it just strange to me.

I mean, the writer is american, why it should not be americanized?






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep  3 21:06:01 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:06:01 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9mfe3+oeaq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9mu7p+p4f2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > Sorry for not being too clear, Alla. I wasn't referring to American 
> accents. 
> > If I had read the article without knowing its origins, I would have 
> pegged 
> > it as American. It's very difficult to define, but there is 
> something about 
> > the linguistic style of the article and the way in which material 
> is chosen 
> > and assembled which screams "American" at me.
> >
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Oh, I understood that point, I mean maybe I am confused about what 
> you meant about the accents, but I understood that article in general 
> seemed americanized to you.
 
> It also seemed to me that this was one of your points of contention 
> with the article was exactly that - that it was americanized.
 
> I mean, of course you either like or dislike the article just as any 
> written work, but if you dislike the article because it was 
> americanized and not for any other reason, it just strange to me.
 
> I mean, the writer is american, why it should not be americanized?

Geoff:
I think it may be a personal reaction to the article but I would not 
have expected a piece written in that  form in a UK magazine.

I fond it strange that there was an emphasis on Daniel having to 
learn to speak with a American accent for two reasons. Actors 
often have to adopt different accents - I believe he had to use 
an Australian accent in "December Boys". So, to an extent, there's 
no big deal in practising an American accent. But it was the fact that 
he was using bad language and that was repeated twice using 
language which I doubt would be printed in full in a decent 
UK magazine. There is a personal angle here because I never 
swear in public. I was famous for declaring my classroom a 
non-swearing zone - and the kids accepted it. I'm not above 
an occasional "bugger" if something goes wrong when I'm on 
my own but the f-word and the derivative used in the article 
absolutely infuriate me and I didn't see the relevance to Dan 
using an American accent. Similarly, as I said before, why is he 
practising when, in "Equus", he is an English youth in a play 
set in England and written by a Brit?

HP hasn't been dubbed in American has it?

There was also what I felt was a  intrusion on his privacy in the 
comments about his 16th birthday which, to me, seemed to be 
slanted to sound lewd.

I just felt that there was an underlying tone of wanting to get a 
snigger from the readers. Hey, guys, DR drinks, swears and 
has sex. So do a lot of people, but it doesn't define a person.

As I said, the best interview I've seen was in the Observer 18 
months ago just before "Equus" opened in the West End. It was 
titled "Dirty Harry" but in fact gave a far more rounded picture 
than the rather slanted one I felt "Details" gave.

If I have trodden on any toes, please allow me to apologise for 
my big feet. I don't often get on my soapbox but I really wasn't 
blown away by the article as some folk seem to have been.

Right. Hot chocolate, a soothing bath and some Hummel to 
calm me down. It's probably all  because the fifth One Day 
International Cricket match against South Africa was washed 
out by rain and ruined our chance of whitewashing them 5-0 
for the first time ever. I wonder how Andy Murray's doing in 
the US Open?

OK. where's the hot chocolate?







From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 23:59:07 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 23:59:07 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9mu7p+p4f2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9n8cb+rjhb@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> I think it may be a personal reaction to the article but I would 
not 
> have expected a piece written in that  form in a UK magazine.
< HUGE SNIP>

Alla:

Okay, I feel wierd because it is you Geoff, but the more you are 
explaining your position the more it makes me raise my eyebrows. UK 
magazines do not write sensationalistic articles about celebrities?

Like none of them? At all? Okay, if this is true, then my hat goes 
off to them, really.

Before I go further let me say it and now I see that maybe I was not 
clear enough in my previous posts, yes, I see what you mean about 
some points of the article, sensationalistic and all. I guess I was 
just dismissing them and loving it because it was a surprise for me 
to see Dan's intelligence and bookishness, no matter even if writer 
felt compelled to touch on something that will make audience think - 
Oh, yeah, he does at least do something that can make us relate him 
to some silly american celebrities, even if Dan is not really like 
that at all. So yes, sure, point taken.

But isn't it a bit stereotypical to say that it is, I don't know, 
americanized necessarily equals sensationalistic?

As I said in my previous posts, I have not read many articles about 
Dan, in fact if I read two, that is pretty much it, or maybe even one.

I thought this one was well done, because I seen much worse in yellow 
press magazines. That trash I do not read, actually no, I took couple 
of issues of US, Enquirer and something else from my colleagues and 
read from start to finish. I wanted to know what they are all about.

My education on that topic was completed. 

What I am trying to say is that when I first came to America, I was 
very surprised to see such celebrity based culture and intense desire 
to know OMG who married whom and who divorced whom and who married 
whom again and who had sex with whom at the party. I was thinking oh 
dear people, that is news for you? Why would you care?

And then, I started thinking and I realised that no intense desire to 
know all about the celebrities is NOT the specific feature of 
America, it is really not.

Back in Ukraine, or even when it was Soviet Union, people somehow 
managed to know what soviet actors did, who married whom and who 
divorced whom. Well, ok, I guess there was not much talk about sex 
during the the parties, because as we all know, we did not have sex 
in Soviet Union ( JOKE, infamous joke).

People talked and when press got more freedom, well yeah, yellow 
press developed back there too and when i went to visit this year, 
there was plenty of press like that, talking about celebrities and 
all.

I think it is everywhere. I applaud Brits if they do not have press 
like that.

So what I am trying to say is that I think that this writer managed 
to do ok, even if he did not avoid all stereotypes of writing about 
celebrities.

JMO,

Alla

 





From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Thu Sep  4 02:41:38 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 02:41:38 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9mu7p+p4f2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9nht2+ki77@eGroups.com>

?
> 
> Geoff:
> I think it may be a personal reaction to the article but I would not 
> have expected a piece written in that  form in a UK magazine.
> 
> I fond it strange that there was an emphasis on Daniel having to 
> learn to speak with a American accent for two reasons. Actors 
> often have to adopt different accents - I believe he had to use 
> an Australian accent in "December Boys". So, to an extent, there's 
> no big deal in practising an American accent. But it was the fact that 
> he was using bad language and that was repeated twice using 
> language which I doubt would be printed in full in a decent 
> UK magazine. 

Anne Squires:

Alla  and Geoff, I hope you don't mind if I jump in with my 2 cents.

Geoff, I saw Dan on The Ellen DeGeneres show recently.  It was a
summer rerun.  I forget what he was promoting, probably OotP.  At any
rate, he was asked to do an American accent.  I honestly can't
remember the exact context.  I believe that Ellen brought up the fact
that he had to do a different accent for "December Boys" and asked if
he could do any other accents.  I don't remember what he said in the
attempted American accent; but it certainly wasn't anything offensive.
 BTW, I didn't think he did a particularly good job.  My point is,
about the whole accent thing:

1.  Almost every single American I know is absolutely fascinated by
other accents, especially British and Aussie accents.  We think the
accent is "cool."  IMO, to many Americans, the  various British
accents sound better than our own.  It is almost always commented
upon.  In fact, now that I think about it, Jay Leno also talked to Dan
about his accent. 

In college I had a very good friend from New Zealand. I remember one
day bumping into him quite by accident.  We had a normal conversation
and as he was leaving he told me thanks for not talking about his
accent.  It seems that all day long he had been dealing with strangers
who would not shut up about his accent.  I remember that he was very
irritated about this.  I reminded him that I had known him for over
two years and that when we first met I had reacted similarly to his
accent. 

BTW, as an American southerner, I get a similar reaction when I travel
to the North.  Once I asked a policeman in New York how to get
somewhere.  He just smiled at me.  I repeated myself and I asked him
if he knew the answer.  He told me that he did know the answer and he
just wanted me to ask again so he could hear me talk.  Quite
frustrating, I assure you. 

The discussion of accents invariably and logically leads to--

2. Can you do an American accent? (Or in my case, Can you do a New
York accent? --No, I can't.)

When I read the article I had the impression that Dan was asked to try
an American accent for fun.  I did not get the impression that he was
doing it for the play.  I think perhaps you read that into the
article.  Just because Dan was asked to imitate an American does not
mean it was for any other reason than to see if he could.

About what he said.  About the language used.  I agree that I didn't
like it either;  but Dan is grown up enough to have told the reporter
that he would prefer to say something else in an American accent.  Dan
could have said whatever he pleased.  I am willing to bet that that
particular phrase was suggested by the reporter.  However, Dan
obviously went along with it.


Geoff again:
There is a personal angle here because I never 
> swear in public. I was famous for declaring my classroom a 
> non-swearing zone - and the kids accepted it. 

Anne:

Sorry, I could be misinterpreting here.  However,  this statement
implies that in other classrooms swearing was/is  allowed.  I teach at
a high school which  I believe is a rather typical American high
school.  Enrollment apx. 1350. Urban.    Swearing in all forms is
against the rules for the entire campus at all times.  Direct and
indirect swearing.  That means no one is allowed to swear. Not ever.
Period.  Anyone who does swear is suspended.  So, I ask you, is
swearing more or less tolerated in the US than in the UK?  What
happens in the "media" does not necessarily represent what happens
throughout society.  Does this aspect of the article(language) make it
more American?  I think it makes it more offensive; but I don't agree
that it makes it more American.  At least not main stream American.

Also, I don't swear either. Not ever. Not at work, obviously. Not even
when I'm away from work.  I don't like the way it sounds.  Further, I
think speech patterns can become a habit.  If you start saying a
certain word or phrase then it can easily become a habit and who knows
when you might slip without realizing it.

Geoff:
I'm not above 
> an occasional "bugger" if something goes wrong when I'm on 
> my own but the f-word and the derivative used in the article 
> absolutely infuriate me and I didn't see the relevance to Dan 
> using an American accent. Similarly, as I said before, why is he 
> practising when, in "Equus", he is an English youth in a play 
> set in England and written by a Brit?
> 
> HP hasn't been dubbed in American has it?

Anne:

Again, I don't think he's doing the accent for the play.  I think he's
doing the accent just to do the accent.  Maybe just because the
reporter asked him to. 

Geoff: 
> 
> There was also what I felt was a  intrusion on his privacy in the 
> comments about his 16th birthday which, to me, seemed to be 
> slanted to sound lewd.
> 
> I just felt that there was an underlying tone of wanting to get a 
> snigger from the readers. Hey, guys, DR drinks, swears and 
> has sex. So do a lot of people, but it doesn't define a person.

Anne:

I completely understand why the different drinking ages might be
mentioned.  To me it didn't say, "Hey, Dan drinks."  To me it said
that in the eyes of the UK Dan has had certain adult privileges which
he has had to forgo when he moved here.  To me the article said, "DR
has been living as a legal adult over there; yet over here he'll have
to deal with reverting to the status of minor."  One of the cultural
differences he'll encounter is that here one isn't a legal adult until
21. To me that was one of the points of the article.  DR is giving up
his adult status when he moves hear.  Very ironic.

Geoff:
Snip
> 
> If I have trodden on any toes, please allow me to apologise for 
> my big feet. I don't often get on my soapbox but I really wasn't 
> blown away by the article as some folk seem to have been.

Anne:

Likewise.  I hope I did not offend anyone. That certainly was not my
intention. 


>





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 06:26:56 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:26:56 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine - Accent
In-Reply-To: <g9m5cf+85f1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9nv3g+7al2@eGroups.com>

---  "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> <SNIP>
> > This article, to English eyes is rather 
> > Americanised in places and I dislike the odd innuendo about,
> > for example, how he celebrated his 16th birthday. OK, so 
> > he's  growing up but give him a bit of private life.
> > 
> > Right. morning gripe over.  Have a good day guys.
> > :-)
> >
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> ... I mean, I see what you are saying about him practicing
> american accent for english play, that does sound wierd for
>  me too, but this is not Dan's words, but writer's, yes. 
> Maybe Dan is practicing because he wants to learn it, and 
> writer wrote it the way it seems that he is practicing 
> it for the play.
>

bboyminn:

Regarding the American accent, I don't think this has anything
to do with the play. I think the interviewer simply asked him
about how good his American accent was, and gave him a 
script to read to test out his accent. Of course, what was
written on the script was a horrible parody of a typical
out of control bratty teen star. Dan, saw what was written,
and understanding that it was a parody, nicely played along.

Either way the interview got something to write about. If
Dan refused, then that becomes big news. If Dan accepts, then
like a 12 year old school boy, the interview and the audience
are titillated by having gotten squeaky clean Dan Radcliffe to
say something naughty. 

It is not that uncommon for interviews to ask stars about 
accents. When Dan was in Australia, interviewers asked to 
hear his Australian accent. When Dan was on 'Ellen' she 
also asked to hear his American accent. So, it's relatively
common thing to come up in an interview.

I'm just saying...

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 06:45:48 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:45:48 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9mu7p+p4f2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9o06s+j3jp@eGroups.com>

--- "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Geoff:
> I think it may be a personal reaction to the article but I 
> would not have expected a piece written in that form in a UK 
> magazine.
> 
> ...
> 
> There was also what I felt was a  intrusion on his privacy 
> in the comments about his 16th birthday which, to me, seemed
> to be slanted to sound lewd.
> 
> I just felt that there was an underlying tone of wanting to 
> get a snigger from the readers. Hey, guys, DR drinks, swears
> and has sex. So do a lot of people, but it doesn't define a 
> person.
> 
> ...
>

bboyminn:

I think that is absolutely IT. This was the interviewer trying
to put Dan in situations where he would give titillating 
answers to titillating question. When he could be manipulated
in to saying things that could be twisted into sexual 
innuendo. 

I mean, if there's no scandal, there's no story. It's dead
boring.

I think the 'accent' dialog was given to him by the interviewer.
Dan saw it for what it was, at once a parody and also an
attempt to get Dan to say something naughty.

The reference to his 16th birthday when he was officially
'legal' indeed was meant to be filled with innuendo and lots
of giggling and sniggering. It is trash journalism at it's
finest. And I agree in the UK, they probably would have done
a more dignified job of it. 

But I think we need to give some thought to how Dan handled it.
He was dead cool and calm. He reflected that British dignity
that can still be there even when things turn trashy.

In casually saying the 'trash talk' in an American accent. In
a sense he took the wind out of the interviewer. There is no
scandal if the person in question refuses to be scandalized.
Dan's attitude seemed to be, I'm an adult, sometimes adults
say things like this.

The same is true regarding his birthday. While the interview
and the interviewer tried to imply things that are best left
private, Dan was unfazed. It was like an adult (Dan) being
interviewed by a mischievous 12 year old. The interviewer
might have gotten some juvenile delight at what was said. But
Dan was calm, cool, casual, and fully adult through the whole
thing. 

To me, the whole interview came of as an immature scandal 
seeking journalist interviewing a mature adult who was so
far above all this petty stuff.

I was very impressed with Dan, and I think he handled himself
in a way that totally diffused the apparent 'scandalous' aspects
of the interview. He can off as very mature, with a 'so what?' 
attitude. 


steve/bluewizard




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 14:00:29 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:00:29 -0000
Subject: Migrant workers (moved from Movie)
Message-ID: <g9oplt+dgg5@eGroups.com>

> Nightbreed:
> Of course, in the U.S. wealthy
> people treat migrant workers from Mexico with much the same lack of
> humanity.

> Anne:
> Do you mean the way illegal immigrants are treated?  Immigrants who
> come from many countries not just Mexico.  

Kemper now:
I disagree with Nightbreed's statement.  It's black and white.  Not
all wealthy Americans are cruel.  I like to believe that most are not.

Many migrant workers are in America because there are businesses and
households that rather pay lower wages for a service than pay a living
wage to a fellow American.  I don't hear many stories of them
complaining about that their circumstances probably because they are
hard workers willing to endure in order to stay in this beautiful country.

But what I'm hearing you say, though I hope I'm wrong and would love
to be told so, is that it is justified for a business or a household
to treat their migrant workers inhumanely because they are or could be
illegals. 

Kemper




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Thu Sep  4 14:32:40 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:32:40 -0000
Subject: Migrant workers (moved from Movie)
In-Reply-To: <g9oplt+dgg5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9ori8+vr6l@eGroups.com>


>
> > Nightbreed:
> > Of course, in the U.S. wealthy
> > people treat migrant workers from Mexico with much the same lack of
> > humanity.
> 
> > Anne:
> > Do you mean the way illegal immigrants are treated?  Immigrants who
> > come from many countries not just Mexico.  
> 
> Kemper now:
> I disagree with Nightbreed's statement.  It's black and white.  Not
> all wealthy Americans are cruel.  I like to believe that most are not.
> 
> Many migrant workers are in America because there are businesses and
> households that rather pay lower wages for a service than pay a living
> wage to a fellow American.  I don't hear many stories of them
> complaining about that their circumstances probably because they are
> hard workers willing to endure in order to stay in this beautiful
country.
> 
> But what I'm hearing you say, though I hope I'm wrong and would love
> to be told so, is that it is justified for a business or a household
> to treat their migrant workers inhumanely because they are or could be
> illegals. 
> 
> Kemper

Anne:

No. I think the business and households who break the law should be
sanctioned to the fullest extent possible.  I think two things:  
1. Illegal immigrants should not be allowed to be here. Period. 
2.  The Americans who perpetrate the situation should not be allowed
to continue as they have been.  Americans contribute to the problem.
Yes, I do recognize that. Those who are part of the problem instead of
the solution are operating illegally. It is illegal to hire illegals.
 That needs to stop.  And I agree some of the people may treat their
employees wrongly while others may treat them well.  They are not
regulated because, as I said, they are operating illegally.  I doubt
they meet OSHA requirements.  They don't take out taxes.  They don't
provide insurance, retirement, etc. Which in turn creates even more
problems.  I understand all of that.  In an ideal world all criminal
activity would just cease.  Then I would be happy.  





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 14:45:24 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:45:24 -0000
Subject: Migrant workers (moved from Movie)
In-Reply-To: <g9ori8+vr6l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9osa4+dkbs@eGroups.com>

> Anne:
> ...  In an ideal world all criminal
> activity would just cease.  Then I would be happy.

Kemper now:
Me too... though I think I would be dead, if it happens the ideal
world follows this.   

Kemper




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Thu Sep  4 15:13:45 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:13:45 -0000
Subject: Migrant workers (moved from Movie)
In-Reply-To: <g9osa4+dkbs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9otv9+992k@eGroups.com>


>
> > Anne:
> > ...  In an ideal world all criminal
> > activity would just cease.  Then I would be happy.
> 
> Kemper now:
> Me too... though I think I would be dead, if it happens the ideal
> world follows this.   
> 
> Kemper
>

Anne:

I think I'll opt to remain in this imperfect world for a while longer
with it's warts and all.  Although it does give one something to look
forward to.  There will definitely be no illegal immigrants in an
after life.  (Just to be clear, I mean everyone gets in.)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep  4 22:12:04 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:12:04 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9n8cb+rjhb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9pmfk+tg23@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > I think it may be a personal reaction to the article but I would 
> not 
> > have expected a piece written in that  form in a UK magazine.
> < HUGE SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Okay, I feel wierd because it is you Geoff, but the more you are 
> explaining your position the more it makes me raise my eyebrows. UK 
> magazines do not write sensationalistic articles about celebrities?
> 
> Like none of them? At all? Okay, if this is true, then my hat goes 
> off to them, really.

<another huge snip!>

Geoff:
I am glad that Steve tended to agree with me because I was 
beginning to feel isolated in my opinion but I am coming to 
think this is one of those UK v US things.

In the UK, many people have the perception, rightly or wrongly, 
that young actors and actresses in the US are bratty because 
they are spoiled and given a false impression of their intelligence 
and fame with the result that many of them go into adulthood 
with problems ? sexual relationships, alcohol, drugs etc.

Here, in the UK, we are blessed to be provided with a large 
group of young thespians who have the reputation and public 
image of being modest, sensible people with their feet firmly 
on the ground who are not seduced by the glitz and pseudo-
glamour of the "high life". This list includes many HP actors 
such as Dan, Emma, Rupert, Tom Felton, Mathew Lewis and 
other actors such as Jamie Bell ? who is a couple of years 
older - and William Moseley. They are seen as excellent 
role models to their peers.

Now, Alla, there are indeed newspapers and magazines in 
the UK whose content is suspect. There are several tabloids 
which are not above trying to get scurrilous stories to print 
about these folk in order to increase their sales. Sensible 
people over here don't read them because they are aimed 
at the lower common denominator of those who enjoy sleaze, 
whether true or not.

Dan has given many excellent interviews both to the press 
and television and good media providers are always ready to 
acknowledge the positive sides of folk such as Dan and those 
others I named.

Which is why I winced when I read the beginning of the 
"Details" article. In hindsight, the latter part of the article is 
quite good and draws on well-known information about Dan's 
background. 

He must be a great guy because he and I (unknowingly) lived 
about three miles from each other for five years. :-)

However, it must be acknowledged that Dan is not without a 
sense of adventure. Back at the beginning of February last year, 
I admit there was a collective sharp intake of breath when the 
pre-opening "Equus" photographs were released and we had 
all the silliness about people going off the HP books because 
off the play and wringing their hands about the dreadful effect 
this would have on their offspring. Yet, about half of the views 
had Dan shirtless with jeans on and those where he was nude 
were so angled or cropped that the even the most prurient were 
unable to get wound up. There was the now notorious nude 
photo of Dan which still raises its head on the Net from time to 
time but that was admitted to be a manipulation very early on 
by its creator. 

I went up to London to see "Equus" because I wanted to see 
Dan on stage and felt that the nude scenes fitted seamlessly 
into the thread of the story and were not gratuitous. Mind, the 
furore went over my head because I must admit  that I have a 
very minimalist approach to dressing. My village considers me 
slightly eccentric because when I take my dogs out for a walk, 
I always try to go shirtless every day of the year and only carry a 
t-shirt for any emergency such as heavy rain or a gale. That will 
have the photographers swarming to Porlock with their telephoto l
enses ? not.

But, looking at what I have outlined above, perhaps you will 
appreciate why I reacted very negatively to the opening sentences 
of the article because I felt that they built a very distorted view of 
Dan from what I have seen and read about him over the years.

Changing topics, Anne Squires wrote:

Geoff again:
> There is a personal angle here because I never 
> > swear in public. I was famous for declaring my classroom a 
> > non-swearing zone - and the kids accepted it. 
 
> Anne:

> Sorry, I could be misinterpreting here.  However,  this statement
> implies that in other classrooms swearing was/is  allowed.  I teach at
> a high school which  I believe is a rather typical American high
> school.  Enrollment apx. 1350. Urban.    Swearing in all forms is
> against the rules for the entire campus at all times.  Direct and
> indirect swearing.  That means no one is allowed to swear. Not ever.
> Period.  Anyone who does swear is suspended.  So, I ask you, is
> swearing more or less tolerated in the US than in the UK? 

Geoff:
If I might enlarge on these comments. When I used to say this, I 
was thinking of pupils swearing at each other or out loud if something 
went wrong ? not at me. Generally, if a child swore at a teacher, he or 
she would be sent to their House Head, or the Deputy Head or the 
Head depending on the circumstances. In my case, I was only ever 
sworn at on a handful of occasions. There were two occasions involving 
physical assault on me but that is a different story.

The non-swearing thing arose towards the end of my teaching. I 
taught in the same school for my entire career ? 32 years. That was 
not an indicator of inertia but the school changed structure twice in 
that time ? from 11-16 boys to 13-18 mixed to 12-16 mixed ? and 
I held a number of senior posts, both teaching and administrative in 
those years. By the end, I was teaching the children of former pupils, 
which could be great fun(!), and I believe I was considered to be a 
teacher who was actually human. This is perhaps borne out by the fact 
that I am in contact with a couple of dozen old pupils via a website 
keeping school communities in touch.

That was when the no-swearing bit came in. I laid this down as a 
basic requirement in my room and it was accepted. If a pupil did 
swear, I usually only needed to raise one eyebrow and there would 
be an apology. So it was just one of the things "sir expected".

It was really part of a low-level disciple I exercised to keep the rapport 
between the class and myself, and the whole group in a degree of 
harmony with each other. As i have intimated, it seemed to work well.




From juli17 at aol.com  Fri Sep  5 00:36:38 2008
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:36:38 EDT
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
Message-ID: <cce.39d421f9.35f1d916@aol.com>

 
Alla wrote:

What I  am trying to say is that when I first came to America, I was 
very  surprised to see such celebrity based culture and intense desire 
to know  OMG who married whom and who divorced whom and who married 
whom again and  who had sex with whom at the party. I was thinking oh 
dear people, that is  news for you? Why would you care?

And then, I started thinking and I  realised that no intense desire to 
know all about the celebrities is NOT  the specific feature of 
America, it is really not.


Julie:
This is interesting because when I've been in England, I've definitely  had 
the impression
that England is equally as celebrity-obsessed as  America--and I include the 
members
of the Royal Family as celebrities, as they aren't really political  figures. 
I recall seeing
various papers at Tube stations and left behind on trains, and  they were 
invariably tabloid
in nature with screaming headlines about what is going on with the two  young 
Princes
(What was Harry doing at such-and-such club? Is William dating  so-and-so?) 
and others
in the Royal Family. I wondered if there were any REAL newspapers in  England 
(though
I do know of the existence of the London Times, I didn't really notice  
anyone reading it).
 
The real difference seems to what type of celebrity is the object of such  
intense scrutiny
and vicarious devotion. In America, it is actors, and in England it is  Royal 
personages 
(though both also elevate certain sport stars to celebrity status).  Large 
segments of
both populations seem to eat up sensationalistic journalism pertaining to  
their celebs,
but I wouldn't consider an intense desire to know all about those celebs as  
the defining
feature of either country.
 
 
Julie, who still hasn't read the Details magazine article
 



**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Sep  5 00:44:45 2008
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:44:45 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9pmfk+tg23@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9pvdt+hu92@eGroups.com>

 Geoff:
> I am glad that Steve tended to agree with me because I was 
> beginning to feel isolated in my opinion but I am coming to 
> think this is one of those UK v US things.
> 
> In the UK, many people have the perception, rightly or wrongly, 
> that young actors and actresses in the US are bratty because 
> they are spoiled and given a false impression of their intelligence 
> and fame with the result that many of them go into adulthood 
> with problems ? sexual relationships, alcohol, drugs.
> 
> Here, in the UK, we are blessed to be provided with a large 
> group of young thespians who have the reputation and public 
> image of being modest, sensible people with their feet firmly 
> on the ground who are not seduced by the glitz and pseudo-
> glamour of the "high life". 

Magpie:
I don't think it's that different. There are a lot of young actors in 
America. The ones who get into drugs etc. (and many young people do 
crash and burn for many reasons, can't handle their situation or the 
transition to adult acting etc.) get publicized as doing so. The many 
who don't simply don't get in the news that way since there's nothing 
for them to sensationalize. (Ironically, I've hard the 'swear like a 
sailor' stereotype go both ways.)

Daniel Radcliffe seems to be one of the latter. The boy who played 
Crabbe, otoh, was caught in something involving cocaine, iirc. If you 
truly have the impression that the young American thespian is the one 
who can't be modest, sensible or have their feet on the ground 
without being seduced by the glitz and pseudo-glamour of the high 
life there are hundreds who are doing and have done just that. Some 
go on to be impressive adult actors, or find other jobs in 
entertainment, or leave the business by the time they're adults. Off 
the top of my head, I'll match your Dan, Emma, Rupert, Tom Felton and 
Jamie Bell with Elijah, Jodie, Raven, David Krumholtz and Leonardo 
DiCaprio.

-m




From lilandriss at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 06:01:15 2008
From: lilandriss at yahoo.com (Alanna)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 23:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Wizards vs Sorcerers
In-Reply-To: <g7q3aa+sjcv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <224023.47324.qm@web53411.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello all.? I've been thinking a lot lately (cause I have way too
much time on my hands apparently) and I got to wondering about all the
various ways of describing magic users.? Witches, Wizards,
Warlocks, Sorcerers, Sorceresess.....What's the difference? *Is* there
a difference or are these just various ways of describing the exact
same thing? 



lanna :) 

 
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      __________________________________________________________________
Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 06:38:53 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:38:53 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9pvdt+hu92@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9qk5t+kqhm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
 
> Magpie:
> I don't think it's that different. There are a lot of young actors in 
> America. The ones who get into drugs etc. (and many young people do 
> crash and burn for many reasons, can't handle their situation or the 
> transition to adult acting etc.) get publicized as doing so. The many 
> who don't simply don't get in the news that way since there's nothing 
> for them to sensationalize. (Ironically, I've hard the 'swear like a 
> sailor' stereotype go both ways.)

Geoff:
Yes. I did say "perceived, rightly or wrongly". I must admit that I don't 
recognise all the names on your list but certainly Elijah Wood comes to 
mind as someone not unlike Dan - comparisons have actually been 
drawn in the past.

I think that where there is discussion about young actors who have 
gone off the rails, there are less names which spring to mind over 
here in the UK. 




From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Fri Sep  5 08:25:44 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:25:44 -0000
Subject: Adverts
Message-ID: <g9qqe8+dhhm@eGroups.com>

Have a good chuckle !!!
Jayne


Anesthesiologist business card:  
>   When you car e enough to sleep with the very best. 
>   **************************************  

>   Sign over a Gynecologist's Office:  
>   "Dr. Jones, at your cervix."
  
>   **************************  
>  In a Podiatrist's office:  
>   "Time wounds all heels."  

>   **************************  
>   On a Septic Tank Truck:
> Yesterday's Meals on Wheels 

> ************************** 
> At a Proctologist's door: 
> "To expedite your visit please back in."

> ************************** On a Plumber's truck:
> "We repair what your husband fixed"

> ************************** On another Plumber's truck:
> "Don't sleep with a drip. Call your plumber.."

> ************************** On a Church's Billboard:
> "7 days without God makes one weak."

> ************************** At a Tire Shop in Milwaukee :
> "Invite us to your next blowout."

> **************************  At a Towing company: "We
> don't charge an arm and a leg. We want tows."

> ************************** On an Electrician's truck:
> "Let us remove your shorts."

> ************************** In a Nonsmoking Area: "If we
> see smoke, we will assume you are on fire and take
> appropriate action." **************************

 On a Maternity Room door: "Push. Push. Push."
> **************************

 At an Optometrist's Office:
> "If you don't see what you're looking for,
> you've come to the right place."

> ************************** On a Taxidermist's window:
> "We really know our stuff"

> ************************** On a Fence: "Salesmen
> welcome! Dog food is expensive!"

> ************************** At a Car Dealership: "The
> best way to get back on your feet - miss a car
> payment." ************************** 

Outside a Muffler Shop:
 "No appointment necessary. We hear you coming." 
**************************
 In a Veterinarian's waiting room:
 "Be back in 5 minutes Sit! Stay!

" ************ At the Electric Company 
"We would be delighted if you send in your
> payment. However, if you don't, you will be."

> ************ In a Restaurant window:
> "Don't stand there and be hungry, Come on in and
> get fed up."

 ******in the front yard of a Funeral Home:
 "Drive carefully. We'll wait."

************    At a Propane> Filling Station:
 "Thank heaven for little grills."

> And don't forget the sign at a Chicago Radiator Shop:
> "Best place in town to take a leak 
> 
> 





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 08:55:50 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:55:50 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine - The Fall Out.
In-Reply-To: <g9o06s+j3jp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9qs6m+m3ka@eGroups.com>

--- "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> --- "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > There was also what I felt was a  intrusion on his privacy 
> > in the comments about his 16th birthday which, to me, seemed
> > to be slanted to sound lewd.
> > 
> > I just felt that there was an underlying tone of wanting to 
> > get a snigger from the readers. Hey, guys, DR drinks, swears
> > and has sex. So do a lot of people, but it doesn't define a 
> > person.
> > 
> > ...
> >
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> I think that is absolutely IT. This was the interviewer trying
> to put Dan in situations where he would give titillating 
> answers to titillating question. When he could be manipulated
> in to saying things that could be twisted into sexual 
> innuendo. 
> 
> I mean, if there's no scandal, there's no story. It's dead
> boring.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> steve/bluewizard
>

bboyminn:

I was going to post this last night but it was getting late.

Look at any collective news source and search for Dan Radcliffe,
and what are the headlines resulting from that 'Details'
article.

The first is 'Dan Radcliffe wants to play a drag queen'. 
Something Dan did say, but in context, he only thought the
eye makeup was cool. There are several variations of this
headline, but they are all playing on the apparent 'scandal'
and all the implied innuendo that goes with it.

The other resulting headline, is that Dan lost his virginity
to an older woman, some even name the older woman, who is
some one that Dan was associated with at the time he turned
16. Again, filled with innuendo and /implied/ information.

First, Dan never said he lost is virginity on that night. It
may have been before or it may have been after. Nor did Dan
even say he had sex the night of his 16th birthday. He merely
said he spent it with an older woman (apparently age 23). 

But those news reporters are taking very small information 
and amplifying it all out of proportion. They are taking
what were originally no more than vague implications and
exaggerating them into highly speculative 'facts'. And I
really use the term 'facts' in the loosest possible way.

This is all clear indication, that if there is no scandal,
then their is no story. And if you don't have real scandal,
then you just make it up. Really kind of sad. 

Nothing in these headlines is true -

"Radcliffe's confession of losing virginity at 16"
-Oneindia, India 

Washington (ANI): "Harry Potter star Daniel Radcliffe has 
revealed that he lost his virginity at the age of 16 to a 
woman much older than him. ..."

"Daniel Radcliffe first used his magic wand with an older woman?"
 -Los Angeles Times

"Daniel Radcliffe lost virginity to Harry Potter hairdresser Amanda
..." -NEWS.com.au

"Radcliffe's virginity shock" -Scotsman

Typically, one source prints misinformation, and all the rest
just repeat it as fact. Dan didn't 'confess' to losing his
virginity on that night. Neither did he confess to having
sex that night. Neither did he name his alleged partner. All
pure speculation printed as shocking news. 

Like I said, the state of news in incredibly sad today. 

Just passing it along.

Steve/bluewizard




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 10:16:53 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:16:53 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine - The Fall Out.
In-Reply-To: <g9qs6m+m3ka@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9r0ul+uu2t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> bboyminn:
> 
> I was going to post this last night but it was getting late.

<snip>

> Nothing in these headlines is true -
> 
> "Radcliffe's confession of losing virginity at 16"
> -Oneindia, India 
> 
> Washington (ANI): "Harry Potter star Daniel Radcliffe has 
> revealed that he lost his virginity at the age of 16 to a 
> woman much older than him. ..."
> 
> "Daniel Radcliffe first used his magic wand with an older woman?"
>  -Los Angeles Times
> 
> "Daniel Radcliffe lost virginity to Harry Potter hairdresser Amanda
> ..." -NEWS.com.au
> 
> "Radcliffe's virginity shock" -Scotsman
> 
> Typically, one source prints misinformation, and all the rest
> just repeat it as fact. Dan didn't 'confess' to losing his
> virginity on that night. Neither did he confess to having
> sex that night. Neither did he name his alleged partner. All
> pure speculation printed as shocking news. 
> 
> Like I said, the state of news in incredibly sad today. 
> 
> Just passing it along.
> 
> Steve/bluewizard
>

Geoff:
Couldn't agree more.

The actual quote from the 'Details' article was:

"Also for the record, he celebrated reaching Britain's age of 
consent, 16, almost three years ago, in the customary manner, 
with an older girlfriend. The age difference "wasn't ridiculous," 
he says. "But it would freak some people out."

The press have interpreted "in the customary manner" with the 
innuendo that this meant sex - which ain't necessarily so.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 17:32:01 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:32:01 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9qk5t+kqhm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9rqeh+35mm@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
> Yes. I did say "perceived, rightly or wrongly". I must admit that I
don't recognise all the names on your list but certainly Elijah Wood
comes to mind as someone not unlike Dan - comparisons have actually
been drawn in the past.
> 
> I think that where there is discussion about young actors who have
gone off the rails, there are less names which spring to mind over
here in the UK.
>
Carol responds:

Possibly because the UK has no equivalent of Hollywood, a whole city
devoted to the show business industry? That accounts in part for the
celebrity-obsessed culture. The size of the country is probably
important, too. It's much easier for a kid to commute from, say,
Liverpool to London than from, say, Houston to Hollywood. The area of
the continental U.S. is more than 3.5 million square miles as opposed
to around 94,000 square miles for the UK. (California alone is  just
over 163,707 square miles.) For whatever reason I think it's harder
here for a young celebrity to live a normal life in the U.S.

BTW, Geoff, I share your dislike for the "Details" article. If Dan's
selection is any indication, the passages that he was supposed to
choose from to illustrate his American accent were in poor taste.
Someone said that the one he chose made him sound like a spoiled young
celebrity. I thought it made him sound like a foul-mouthed rapper
(minus the racial epithets often found in that genre). At any rate, it
was no representative sample of the kind of English used by the
average American.

Carol, who agrees with Magpie that it's the young celebrities who
abuse drugs (or develop anorexia or get pregnant out of wedlock) who
get the publicity, at least in the U.S.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 21:03:10 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:03:10 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9rqeh+35mm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9s6qe+pmee@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Geoff:
> > Yes. I did say "perceived, rightly or wrongly". I must admit that I
> don't recognise all the names on your list but certainly Elijah Wood
> comes to mind as someone not unlike Dan - comparisons have actually
> been drawn in the past.
> > 
> > I think that where there is discussion about young actors who have
> gone off the rails, there are less names which spring to mind over
> here in the UK.
> >
> Carol responds:
> 
> Possibly because the UK has no equivalent of Hollywood, a whole city
> devoted to the show business industry? That accounts in part for the
> celebrity-obsessed culture. The size of the country is probably
> important, too. It's much easier for a kid to commute from, say,
> Liverpool to London than from, say, Houston to Hollywood. The area of
> the continental U.S. is more than 3.5 million square miles as opposed
> to around 94,000 square miles for the UK. (California alone is  just
> over 163,707 square miles.) For whatever reason I think it's harder
> here for a young celebrity to live a normal life in the U.S.

Geoff:
I take your point. Certainly, many of the UK guys live at home. Dan 
still lives with his parents for example - when he isn't sleeping on a 
garret floor in NY while he appears in "Equus". 
:-)

His home is in Fulham, in South-west London, just on the north side 
of the river. For 45 years, I lived in Wandsworth, a mile or so on the 
other side; unknowingly, our lives in the area overlapped by about 
five years. My claim to fame!

Two of my other claims to fame is that, as a young man, I collided 
head on with Randolph churchill at the W.H.Smith's bookstall in 
Victoria railway station one day and I have a photograph of myself 
wearing a bow tie (oof!) standing near to Queen Elizabeth the 
Queen Mother when she visited my teaching college. Just don't ask 
for the date.
:-(




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 05:45:08 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:45:08 -0000
Subject: Wizards vs Sorcerers
In-Reply-To: <224023.47324.qm@web53411.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9t5d4+q3dc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Alanna <lilandriss at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello all.? I've been thinking a lot lately (cause I have way too
> much time on my hands apparently) and I got to wondering about all 
the various ways of describing magic users.? Witches, Wizards,
> Warlocks, Sorcerers, Sorceresess.....What's the difference? *Is* 
there a difference or are these just various ways of describing the 
exact same thing? 

Tonks:

I am not sure how Rowling uses the terms in her world. In our world 
as I understand it, a sorcerer is the lowest form, like a beginner 
and a Wizard is a Magus or Wise One and is the highest, most 
advanced. The Magi (plural of Magus) of the Christmas story were a 
group of Wizards, actually following the stars... 'Mars is Bright 
Tonight' sort of thing.

Also I think in Wicca a warlock is just a male witch. I am not an 
expert on this, so maybe someone else knows more.

Tonks_op






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 08:22:25 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 08:22:25 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
Message-ID: <g9tek1+9ue1@eGroups.com>

In a recent interview, Tom Felton said he would have no objection
to stripping off for a movie or stage role if it had artistic 
merit.

But in the quote, there is a word that has been censor and I 
suspect it is a British word for a private part of a man's
anatomy, but for the life of me, I can't imagine what the 
word could be.

Here is the quote -

"I would [get naked]" Felton told DS. "If getting my k**b out
came with some artistic merit and the role required it, 
I'd do it." 

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/a129010/potter-star-happy-to-do-naked-roles.html

So, "K**B"; starts with 'K' and ends with 'B', but not sure
how many letters in between. 

Could anyone tell me what the word is? Of course, I suspect
it is a word unique to the UK so it wouldn't be offensive in 
the USA. If it is offensive in the USA, or is too 'delicate'
to mention here, could you drop a hint or two???

Just curious.

Steve/bboyminn




From maritajan at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 13:56:28 2008
From: maritajan at yahoo.com (MJ)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 06:56:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9tek1+9ue1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <162135.69287.qm@web36801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

knob



MJ

--- On Sat, 9/6/08, Steve <bboyminn at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Steve <bboyminn at yahoo.com>
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 3:22 AM










    
            In a recent interview, Tom Felton said he would have no objection

to stripping off for a movie or stage role if it had artistic 

merit.



But in the quote, there is a word that has been censor and I 

suspect it is a British word for a private part of a man's

anatomy, but for the life of me, I can't imagine what the 

word could be.



Here is the quote -



"I would [get naked]" Felton told DS. "If getting my k**b out

came with some artistic merit and the role required it, 

I'd do it." 



http://www.digitals py.co.uk/ showbiz/a129010/ potter-star- happy-to- do-naked- roles.html



So, "K**B"; starts with 'K' and ends with 'B', but not sure

how many letters in between. 



Could anyone tell me what the word is? Of course, I suspect

it is a word unique to the UK so it wouldn't be offensive in 

the USA. If it is offensive in the USA, or is too 'delicate'

to mention here, could you drop a hint or two???



Just curious.



Steve/bboyminn




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  6 15:01:23 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:01:23 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9tek1+9ue1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9u603+gtn1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> In a recent interview, Tom Felton said he would have no objection
> to stripping off for a movie or stage role if it had artistic 
> merit.

<snip>
 
> Here is the quote -
> 
> "I would [get naked]" Felton told DS. "If getting my k**b out
> came with some artistic merit and the role required it, 
> I'd do it." 

<snip>

> Could anyone tell me what the word is? Of course, I suspect
> it is a word unique to the UK so it wouldn't be offensive in 
> the USA. If it is offensive in the USA, or is too 'delicate'
> to mention here, could you drop a hint or two???
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

Geoff:
As another poster has said, the answer is "knob". Funny, I 
always used to leave off the "k" as a teen. It's a very  old 
usage. I'm surprised that Tom didn't call it something else.

Someone was being very sensitive by using asterisks. 
There seems to be no worry about the use of "wand" 
in this context which in fact I had never heard used 
until one or two naughty connotations crept into the 
papers when the "Equus" connection was announced.

PS If you got message 37591 on email before I deleted 
it, don't worry - I hit the wrong button.
:-(




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 21:19:26 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:19:26 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9u603+gtn1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9us4u+kgke@eGroups.com>

---  "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> 
> <snip>
>  
> > Here is the quote -
> > 
> > "I would [get naked]" Felton told DS. "If getting my k**b
> > out came with some artistic merit and the role required it, 
> > I'd do it." 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Could anyone tell me what the word is? ...
> > 
> > Just curious.
> > 
> > Steve/bboyminn
> 
> Geoff:
> As another poster has said, the answer is "knob". ... I'm 
> surprised that Tom didn't call it something else.
> 
> ...

bboyminn:

A little searching of British Slang dictionaries and I figured
this out on my own eventually.

Still, is 'knob' or 'nob' such an offensive word in the
UK that it needs to be 'bleeped'? I mean, would they have
also bleeped 'Willie'? Or any other seemingly subtle and
gentle euphemisms?

And, this was on the Digital Spy website, not a site likely 
to be frequented by 10 year olds.

Just seems odd. Maybe the took a better safe than sorry 
approach.

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 21:26:32 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:26:32 -0000
Subject: Stephen King on Deathly Hallows and JKR
Message-ID: <g9usi8+5jdp@eGroups.com>

This is old news but here is an article written by Stephen Kind,
about Deathly Hallows and JKR in general. Certainly it contains
spoilers, but if you haven't read the book by now, you aren't
that much of a fan. 

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20044270_20044274_20050689,00.html

I've read other comments by Stephen King, but for some reason
this one escaped me until today when I stumbled across it
looking for reviews on the opening of Equus. 

As a side note, what little I could find, as the recent 
performance is still considered a rehersal, have been very 
positive, praising Dan's role, but rating Richard Griffith's 
performance as near perfection.

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  6 22:29:47 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:29:47 -0000
Subject: Dan in Details magazine
In-Reply-To: <g9rqeh+35mm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9v08r+abg2@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37586>:

<< Hollywood, a whole city devoted to the show business industry >>

No, no, no. Hollywood is not a city. It is one neighborhood in the
City of Los Angeles. 

And it is not devoted to The Industry. Its residential real estate is
pretty generic, houses for the kind of people who can afford to buy a
house (such as doctors, lawyers, engineers, who work in other parts of
town), apartments for the kind of people who can afford to rent
apartments, and quite a number of homeless people living on the
streets, or in public parks. To the extent that its commercial
districts are devoted to any one business, that would be selling
souvenirs to tourists. 

Depending on where one puts the boundaries of Hollywood, it contains
Paramount Studios, TV stations KTTV and KCET, the Pantages Theater
(live theater), the Directors' Guild building and theater (movie
theater) and a lot of agents and stuff have officies in its office
towers. 

The Music Center theaters, some offices, and a complex of rental sound
stages are Downtown. What used to be MGM Studios is in Culver City.
Most Industry players' offices (and homes) are in Beverly Hills. City
of Culver City and City of Beverly Hills are incorporated cities
separate from City of Los Angeles.

The highest concentration of studios (and of storefronts catering to
actors and scriptwriters) is in the near end of the San Fernando
Valley, Burbank and Glendale and North Hollywood and Studio City and
so on. Disney, Warner Bros, Univeral, NBC, and I feel sure I'm
forgetting someone.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  6 22:46:34 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:46:34 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9us4u+kgke@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9v18a+7rq8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:

Geoff:
> > As another poster has said, the answer is "knob". ... I'm 
> > surprised that Tom didn't call it something else.

bboyminn:
 
> A little searching of British Slang dictionaries and I figured
> this out on my own eventually.
 
> Still, is 'knob' or 'nob' such an offensive word in the
> UK that it needs to be 'bleeped'? I mean, would they have
> also bleeped 'Willie'? Or any other seemingly subtle and
> gentle euphemisms?

Geoff:
Most of the euphemisms for a gentleman's equipment are 
fairly harmless ones; they wouldn't make me blush and I'm 
not one for swearing. After all, if we can cope with a well-known 
West Country hill called Brown Willy without too much 
sniggering..... Curiously, the one which I find silly which I think
I have only seen in US English  is "manhood" which for some 
reason makes me chuckle.

No, the words which are normally bleeped and ones at which I 
personally take umbrage if I hear them are the f-word, the 
c-word and the s-word.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  6 22:59:28 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:59:28 -0000
Subject: Wizards vs Sorcerers
In-Reply-To: <224023.47324.qm@web53411.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9v20g+fkm7@eGroups.com>

Lanna wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37581>:

<< I got to wondering about all the various ways of describing magic
users.  Witches, Wizards, Warlocks, Sorcerers, sorceresess.....What's
the difference? *Is* there a difference or are these just various ways
of describing the exact same thing? >>

It's clear that one difference in Rowling's terminology is gender
(sex). Her word 'witch' applies only to *female* magic users, and is
the wizarding world's equivalent of 'woman'. Her word 'wizard' is much
the equivalent of our word 'man', as it can mean a male magic user or
any magic user. The difference between 'sorcerer' and 'sorceress' is
one is male and the other female.

Some listies have claimed that 'the real meaning' of wizard is a GOOD
magic user and of 'sorcerer/ess' is a WICKED magic user. It is clear
that that is not what Rowling meant, as 'Grand Sorcerer' is one of
Dumbledore's titles (see below) and Celestina Warbeck is 'The Singing
Soceress'. It seems to me that in the wizarding world, 'wizard' and
'witch' is that you were born with ability to do magic, and 'sorcerer'
and 'sorceress' is that you have learned skill at doing magic.

Listies have argued endlessly over the word 'warlock'. Statements like
Ernie Macmillan's claim in CoS that "you can trace my family back
through nine generations of witches and warlocks and my blood's as
pure as anyone's" imply that it simply means a male magic user. 

The word 'warlock' is much used in CoS. Besides Ernie's pedigree, Ron
says "Dad was going frantic - it's only him and an old warlock called
Perkins in the office", and one of the testimonials is from "Warlock
D. J. Prod of Didsbury [says] says: "My wife used to sneer at my
feeble charms, but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course and I
succeeded in turning her into a yak! Thank you, Kwikspell!"" 

The latter two examples could be interpreted to mean that 'warlock' is
a [male] magic user with weak magic power and/or limited intelligence,
but I don't believe that that is what it means. More below.

Tonks_op <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37588>

<< I am not sure how Rowling uses the terms in her world. In our world
as I understand it, a sorcerer is the lowest form, like a beginner and
a Wizard is a Magus or Wise One and is the highest, most advanced. >>

Which *our* world?

<< Also I think in Wicca a warlock is just a male witch. I am not an
expert on this, so maybe someone else knows more. >>

No, no, no. In Wicca, every initiate is a Witch, regardless of sex.
IIRC "witch' for the females and 'warlock' for the males was from the
old TV show 'Bewitched', and I don't know where they got it from. I
have always been told that 'warlock' comes from a Saxon word for
'oath-breaker', perhaps referring to someone who renounced their
Christian baptism, from the world view in which a witch has sold hiser
soul to The Devil in exchange for the ability to do magic.

ssgtkaras wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/108405 :

<< I'm probably overlooking this in the books. However, I am new to
the series and was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference
between a wizard and a warlock. >>

None of us know for sure (or if someone does, they haven't told).
Some threads on the subject begin with the following posts:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/106697
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/23351

In those threads, Steve b_boymn suggests that 'wizards' are Western
European and 'warlocks' are Eastern European. That doesn't explain why
Dumbledore's title as chairman of the Wizengamot is Chief Warlock, and
why Quidditch, a sport invented in England, is called 'the noble sport
of warlocks'.

My theory is that 'warlock' means a member of the wizarding parliament
(which might be the Wizengamot, named as it is after the Saxon
parliament, Witangemot). I assume that the word acquired additional
meaning: as being chosen by your neighbors to represent them is
something of an honor, 'warlock' came to mean a respected person, thus
'the noble sport of warlocks'; but public opinion of politicians being
what it is, 'warlock' also came to mean a person full of hot air,
which might explain the 'wild-looking' warlocks arguing over the
latest issue of Transfiguration Quarterly at the Leaky Cauldron.

There's a bit in OoP where Lupin says: "Dumbledore's 'been voted out
of the Chairmanship of the International Confederation of Wizards...
they've demoted him from chief Warlock on the Wizengamot... and
they're talking about taking away his Order of Merlin, First Class, too.'

If you remember Dumbledore's official Headmaster letterhead in PS/SS,
his name was followed by "Order of Merlin, First Class, Grand Sorc.,
Chf. Warlock, Supreme Mugwump, International Confed. of Wizards".
There has long been discussion of what those titles could possibly mean.

I think Order of Merlin, First Class, Grand Sorcerer is the highest
honor, perhaps given to people who have already been given the Order
of Merlin a couple of times:
Order of Merlin, third class
Order of Merlin, second class
Order of Merlin, first class
Order of Merlin, first class, Sorceror
Order of Merlin, first class, Grand Sorceror

I think Supreme Mugwump is the title of the 'chairman' of the
International [Con]federation of Wizards/Warlocks.

(I think all those names have appeared in canon, and I think they all
mean the same organization.) 
International Federation of Wizards, pages 90 and 120 of UK OoP 
International Federation of Warlocks, pages 30 and 128 of UK OoP 
International Confederation of Wizards, on DD's letterhead in SS and
GoF ch.17
International Confederation of Warlocks' Statute of Secrecy in Mafalda
Hopkirk's letter in CoS
International Warlock Convention of 1289, also in CoS
Fudge has been criticized by some members of the International
Federation of Warlocks for informing the Muggle Prime Minister of the
crisis. PoA

As for 'warlock', I long held that it was a title meaning an elective
representative to wizarding legislature council (so that the medieval
Wizards' Council, precursor to the Ministry of Magic as we were told
in the schoolbooks, could perfectly well be called the Warlocks'
Council). I said, the Saxon meaning of "warlock = oath breaker" would
apply quite well to the wizarding equivalent of a Congressman or M.P. 

While I was at it, I proposed that the Wizards' Council was earlier
named the Witchingameet, based on the name 'Witangamot' of the Saxon
parliament before the Norman Conquest. Wizengamot clearly is named
from the same source, so I patted myself on the back for an "almost
right" prediction.

So now I am proposing that Warlock means 'member of the Wizengamot'.
'Chief Warlock' should mean Chairman of the Wizengamot.

And Perkins is 'an old warlock' because he used to be an elected
representative to the wizarding legislative body, but was defeated for
re-election because his constituents found him useless, so friends who
had been re-elected got him a replacement job. And "Warlock D. J.
Prod" was elected to one term and has been using the title as a brag
ever since. I wish Ernie's pedigree was as easy to explain.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 03:15:34 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:15:34 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9u603+gtn1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <g9vh0m+bjt6@eGroups.com>

Geoff wrote:

<snip>
> Someone was being very sensitive by using asterisks. There seems to
be no worry about the use of "wand" in this context which in fact I
had never heard used until one or two naughty connotations crept into
the papers when the "Equus" connection was announced.

Carol responds:

Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I have a
feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR, who is a
bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up with,
"What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by straight-laced
Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in its primary
meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing adult could (or
would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.

Reviewers of "Equus," knowing that Dan routinely uses (or pretends to
use) a wand as Harry Potter, may have independently arrived at the
same "clever" metaphor or they may have read the books or seen the
film in which Emma Watson delivers that line. (PoA?)

I haven't read any reviews of "Equus" as I find the whole concept of
that play revolting, so I haven't actually encountered "wand" used in
this way. I'm only postulating a connection between Dan's use of a
wand in one role and his nakedness in another as the reason for this
particular word in connection with his anatomy. I would be surprised
to see it used in relation to another instance of male nudity in a
play or film.

Carol, not inclined to research this particular topic  




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep  7 12:01:24 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:01:24 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9vh0m+bjt6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga0fqk+gam4@eGroups.com>

 
> Carol responds:
> 
> Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I have a
> feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR, who is a
> bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up with,
> "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by straight-laced
> Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in its primary
> meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing adult could (or
> would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.


Potioncat:
Most adults would understand it, while not reacting to it. But when one 
of the Weasley twins said something similar about wands My young-teen 
almost bust a gut laughing. It took me a moment to understand why he 
was laughing. As I recall, it was fairly innocent and was one of the 
wizarding versions of a Muggle saying. 

BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any sub-meaning? I 
didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the characters, even if in 
some cases the use could be misconstrued.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  7 14:47:32 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:47:32 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga0fqk+gam4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga0pi4+6t03@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Carol responds:
> > 
> > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I have a
> > feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR, who is a
> > bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up with,
> > "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by straight-laced
> > Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in its primary
> > meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing adult could (or
> > would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> Most adults would understand it, while not reacting to it. But when one 
> of the Weasley twins said something similar about wands My young-teen 
> almost bust a gut laughing. It took me a moment to understand why he 
> was laughing. As I recall, it was fairly innocent and was one of the 
> wizarding versions of a Muggle saying. 
> 
> BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any sub-meaning? I 
> didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the characters, even if in 
> some cases the use could be misconstrued.

Geoff:
I would say not. If someone else sees a unintended double entendre 
in a statement, then that is their interpretation and not that of the 
speaker or writer.

Reminds me of the joking English saying: "He who laughs last has 
thought of the dirty meaning."

Sorry.
:-(




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 16:30:51 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: Equus WAS: Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <g9vh0m+bjt6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga0vjr+ujoq@eGroups.com>

> Carol responds:
<BIG SNIP>
>> I haven't read any reviews of "Equus" as I find the whole concept 
of
> that play revolting, so I haven't actually encountered "wand" used 
in
> this way. I'm only postulating a connection between Dan's use of a
> wand in one role and his nakedness in another as the reason for this
> particular word in connection with his anatomy. I would be surprised
> to see it used in relation to another instance of male nudity in a
> play or film.
> 
> Carol, not inclined to research this particular topic
>


Alla:

I love theater, but I was actually hesitating for quite some time 
whether to buy tickets or not. I do not mind subject matter at all, I 
just wanted to have at least some acknowledgement that acting is good 
and it seems to be very good in the reviews, so yes I am going in a 
few weeks. 




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  7 17:35:54 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:35:54 -0000
Subject: Equus WAS: Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga0vjr+ujoq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga13dq+slt5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Carol responds:
> <BIG SNIP>
> >> I haven't read any reviews of "Equus" as I find the whole concept 
> of
> > that play revolting, so I haven't actually encountered "wand" used 
> in
> > this way. I'm only postulating a connection between Dan's use of a
> > wand in one role and his nakedness in another as the reason for this
> > particular word in connection with his anatomy. I would be surprised
> > to see it used in relation to another instance of male nudity in a
> > play or film.
> > 
> > Carol, not inclined to research this particular topic
 
Alla:
> I love theater, but I was actually hesitating for quite some time 
> whether to buy tickets or not. I do not mind subject matter at all, I 
> just wanted to have at least some acknowledgement that acting is good 
> and it seems to be very good in the reviews, so yes I am going in a 
> few weeks.

Geoff:
Alla, I think you know that I saw the play in London last year. If the 
New York production is half as good as that one, go for it girl!






From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  7 17:41:21 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 7 Sep 2008 17:41:21 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/7/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1220809281.13.21263.m52@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 7, 2008
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
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Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

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From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 18:28:45 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:28:45 -0000
Subject: Equus WAS: Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga13dq+slt5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga16gt+to8v@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Alla, I think you know that I saw the play in London last year. If 
the 
> New York production is half as good as that one, go for it girl!
>


Alla:

I remember your review, yes and I kept that in mind, just wanted to 
check out a couple reviews from new york production before I decide. So 
I bought the tickets and am going three weeks from today :)




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 20:12:32 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:12:32 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga0fqk+gam4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga1cjg+uh4v@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > 
> > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I
have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR, who
is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up
with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by
straight-laced Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in its
primary meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing adult
could (or would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> Most adults would understand it, while not reacting to it. But when
one of the Weasley twins said something similar about wands My
young-teen almost bust a gut laughing. It took me a moment to
understand why he was laughing. As I recall, it was fairly innocent
and was one of the wizarding versions of a Muggle saying. 
> 
> BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any sub-meaning? I
didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the characters, even if in
some cases the use could be misconstrued.
>
Carol again:

I think it's innuendo by JKR for her (adult and teenage) readers but
not intended by the characters. Well, maybe the Twins intended it (I
don't remember the example you're citing), but Hermione probably
didn't. As for understanding but not reacting, I think we all react in
some way, if only by mentally rolling her eyes and wishing she'd
confine her wordplay to the clever puns we see elsewhere, my all-time
favorite being DD's griffin door (Gryffindor) knocker.

Carol, wishing she'd never been taught about Freudian implications and
symbolism




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 20:23:31 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:23:31 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga0pi4+6t03@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga1d83+2qht@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > > 
> > > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I
have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR, who
is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up
with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by
straight-laced Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in its
primary meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing adult
could (or would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.
> > 
Potioncat responded:
> > Most adults would understand it, while not reacting to it. But
when one of the Weasley twins said something similar about wands My
young-teen almost bust a gut laughing. It took me a moment to
understand why he was laughing. As I recall, it was fairly innocent
and was one of the wizarding versions of a Muggle saying. 
> > 
> > BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any sub-meaning?
I didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the characters, even if in
some cases the use could be misconstrued.
> 
Geoff:
> I would say not. If someone else sees a unintended double entendre
in a statement, then that is their interpretation and not that of the
speaker or writer. <snip>

>
Carol responds:
You don't think that JKR is doing it deliberately? I'm afraid that I
disagree, but I don't like the topic well enough to provide additional
examples. (The characters are another matter. I'm quite sure that
Hermione, at least, intends no double entendre--in contrast to Ron
with his "Uranus" puns, which are obviously deliberate on the part of
both writer and character.)

Carol, who thinks that double entendres are just another form of
wordplay for JKR, who evidently delights in that sort of thing




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 20:35:54 2008
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:35:54 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga0fqk+gam4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga1dva+ad38@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...>
wrote:

> BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any sub-meaning? I 
> didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the characters


zanooda:

Neither did I :-). I'm pretty sure that the characters don't mean
anything *like that* in the books, and any innuendo we may see there
is accidental :-). When Ron gives Harry a book about girls, which
explains how to make them like you, he says something like "it's not
all about the wandwork, you know". Certainly he can't mean it the way
I understand it, with my dirty mind :-). Those books are rather
innocent in this sense :-).






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  7 20:51:25 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:51:25 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga1d83+2qht@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga1esd+tee2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol earlier:
> > > > 
> > > > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I
> have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR, who
> is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up
> with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by
> straight-laced Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in its
> primary meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing adult
> could (or would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.
> > > 
> Potioncat responded:
> > > Most adults would understand it, while not reacting to it. But
> when one of the Weasley twins said something similar about wands My
> young-teen almost bust a gut laughing. It took me a moment to
> understand why he was laughing. As I recall, it was fairly innocent
> and was one of the wizarding versions of a Muggle saying. 
> > > 
> > > BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any sub-meaning?
> I didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the characters, even if in
> some cases the use could be misconstrued.
> > 
> Geoff:
> > I would say not. If someone else sees a unintended double entendre
> in a statement, then that is their interpretation and not that of the
> speaker or writer. <snip>
> 
> >
> Carol responds:
> You don't think that JKR is doing it deliberately? 

Geoff:
Did I say that?  I was actually answering Potioncat's musings. Because of 
that, may I point out that my sentence began with a conditional clause?




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 23:59:54 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:59:54 -0000
Subject: Snape's Other House
Message-ID: <ga1ptq+j381@eGroups.com>

Nothing really too serious. I was looking at some photo collections
of the UK as I checked the news, and stumbled across this -

Snape Castle in North Yorkshire -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/gallery/2008/sep/06/property.houseprices?picture=337330150

If it doesn't come up as Snape's Castle, go to photo #4.

Nice place on a Potion Master's salary.

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 00:24:22 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:24:22 -0000
Subject: Wand Work  (was Tom Felton: ...But What Word?)
In-Reply-To: <ga1dva+ad38@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga1rbm+u4it@eGroups.com>

---  "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "potioncat" <willsonkmom@>
> wrote:
> 
> > BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any 
> > sub-meaning? I didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by 
> > the characters
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Neither did I :-). I'm pretty sure that the characters don't
> mean anything *like that* in the books, and any innuendo we
> may see there is accidental :-). 
>
> When Ron gives Harry a book about girls, ..., he says 
> something like "it's not all about the wandwork, you know". 
> Certainly he can't mean it the way I understand it, with my
> dirty mind :-). Those books are rather innocent in this sense
> :-).
>

bboyminn:

But, I think that is exactly how it was intended. What could
Ron possibly mean? That catching girls is all about spell
casting? That doesn't make much moral, legal, or logical sense.

So, I think 'wand work' means exactly what you think it means.
But I also think that more /innocent/ minds will see more
innocent meanings in it. Though I have no doubt that there
were a lot of giggling and snickering junior high kids when
they read that. 

That makes it the perfect double entendre, it has innocent 
meaning to innocent minds, and not-so-innocent meaning to 
the more not-so-innocent minds. Either you get it or you
don't. 

Just a thought.

steve/bboyminn





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 00:51:28 2008
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:51:28 -0000
Subject: Wand Work  (was Tom Felton: ...But What Word?)
In-Reply-To: <ga1rbm+u4it@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga1sug+ogs9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> But, I think that is exactly how it was intended. What could
> Ron possibly mean? That catching girls is all about spell
> casting? That doesn't make much moral, legal, or logical sense.
> So, I think 'wand work' means exactly what you think it means.



You really think so? LOL! I guessed that maybe JKR was being a little
naughty here :-), but I thought she meant for Ron to say it innocently
:-).


zanooda, not sure what to think ...






From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 01:50:49 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:50:49 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
Message-ID: <ga20dp+47m5@eGroups.com>

Books Mayor Sarah Palin tried to remove from Wasilla library

*/_This information is taken from the official minutes of the
Wasilla Library Board.
_/When the librarian refused to ban the books, Palin tried to get
her fired.*
**
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher 
Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse- Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster
Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween
Symbols by Edna Barth





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 02:00:34 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:00:34 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga20dp+47m5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga2103+pgiq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" 
<Schlobin at ...> wrote:
>
> Books Mayor Sarah Palin tried to remove from Wasilla library
> 
> */_This information is taken from the official minutes of the
> Wasilla Library Board.
> _/When the librarian refused to ban the books, Palin tried to get
> her fired.*
> **
><SNIP>

Alla:

I disagree very strongly with her political views, but if this is 
correct information ( not saying that you are lying Susan, just there 
is so much made up stuff on the net, especially about politicians and 
it is hard to know for sure what is truth and what not), I have no 
respect for her as a person either.

People who try to ban knowledge get no respect from me, people who 
try to make kids NOT to read these books, books which are cherished 
for generations, UGH. That to me goes so much deeper than political 
party affiliation. 

Alla




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Mon Sep  8 02:41:41 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:41:41 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga20dp+47m5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga23d5+sv1f@eGroups.com>

 "susanmcgee48176" <Schlobin at ...> wrote:
>
> Books Mayor Sarah Palin tried to remove from Wasilla library
> 
> */_This information is taken from the official minutes of the
> Wasilla Library Board.
> _/When the librarian refused to ban the books, Palin tried to get
> her fired.*
Snip of list of books

Anne Squires:

I don't support Palin; however, I think (and I'll admit that I am not
an expert on this) that this is an instance where something has been
reported as "fact" and passed on and on, when the "fact" was not true
in the first place.  From what I gather the librarian was asked if she
would consider removing some books from the library shelves.  The
librarian said "no."  Pretty much end of discussion.

This is from a post on librarian.net

http://www.librarian.net/stax/2366/sarah-palin-vp-nominee/

As expected, the rumor is false:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13084_Page2.html

>From Politico:

`In 1996, according to the Frontiersman, Wasilla's library director
Mary Ellen Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with
censorship of library books. Emmons said, "This is different than a
normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy. 
 She was
asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the
library." Palin said in response, "Many issues were discussed, both
rhetorical and realistic in nature." [Frontiersman, 12/18/96]`

There was no threat, there were no banned books. Constituents
complained, she asked, and she was answered.

There's a list circulating on the Internet claiming to be the list of
books Palin asked to be banned. It's a fake; some of the books on the
list had not even been published in 1996 when this incident occurred.
The list is from http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html, and is a list
of all books that have ever been banned anywhere in America.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 02:51:39 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:51:39 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga23d5+sv1f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga23vr+d9iq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" 
<tfaucette6387 at ...> wrote:
> As expected, the rumor is false:
> http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13084_Page2.html
> 
> From Politico:
> 
> `In 1996, according to the Frontiersman, Wasilla's library director
> Mary Ellen Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live 
with
> censorship of library books. Emmons said, "This is different than a
> normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy. 
 She 
was
> asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the
> library." Palin said in response, "Many issues were discussed, both
> rhetorical and realistic in nature." [Frontiersman, 12/18/96]`
> 
> There was no threat, there were no banned books. Constituents
> complained, she asked, and she was answered.
> 
> There's a list circulating on the Internet claiming to be the list 
of
> books Palin asked to be banned. It's a fake; some of the books on 
the
> list had not even been published in 1996 when this incident 
occurred.
> The list is from http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html, and is a 
list
> of all books that have ever been banned anywhere in America.


Alla:

I agree that it is not completely correct. I do disagree from your 
links though that it is completely false either.

She asked to have some books banned, or am I misunderstanding? It is 
just that librarian appeared to be strong enough to say no to a mayor 
and mayor decided not to push. I mean, what else her question could 
mean?


The fact that she asked, is enough for me, frankly. Unless as I said 
I am misunderstanding your link to politico.




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Mon Sep  8 03:27:00 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:27:00 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga23vr+d9iq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga2624+8etq@eGroups.com>


> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I agree that it is not completely correct. I do disagree from your 
> links though that it is completely false either.
> 
> She asked to have some books banned, or am I misunderstanding? It is 
> just that librarian appeared to be strong enough to say no to a mayor 
> and mayor decided not to push. I mean, what else her question could 
> mean?
> 
> 
> The fact that she asked, is enough for me, frankly. Unless as I said 
> I am misunderstanding your link to politico.
>
Anne Squires:

Let me reiterate that I am not a Palin supporter.  I just don't think
this story is correct.  I think the proverbial mountain has been made
out of a mole hill.  As noted, the incident was in 1996.  We all know
that the HP books which are on the list had not even been published in
1996. That fact in and of itself puts the entire story in a very
questionable light, IMHO.  Someone, somewhere did not check their facts.

>From what I understand (and I admit I could be wrong about this)
citizens have the right to challenge/question what is in a public
library since their tax dollars support the library.  Apparently some
citizens had complained about some of the books.  As mayor, Palin had
to ask about the matter.  She had to ask the librarian about her
position.  She was looking into the matter on behalf of some citizens.
>From the article, it looks like the discussion was at a town meeting
or a city council meeting. I know that in my city all kinds of matters
are brought before the mayor and the council.  I can easily envision a
similar discussion taking place here.  At which point it would behoove
the mayor to ask the librarian about it as a matter of course as part
of investigating the matter.  If the mayor asked the librarian to
clarify his/her position and then gave hypothetical examples of
potential books I would not be overly alarmed, especially if the books
were not removed from the library.  It's the mayor's job to look out
for the interests of all the citizens, not just the politically
correct ones.

>From what I understand the librarian in question was later asked to
resign by Palin; but that was totally unrelated to this issue. 
Apparently the two incidents have been connected on the internet. But,
as I said, supposedly the two are unrelated.

Anne Squires (who really does not know very much about the issue-- who
just thinks it's something that has been overly exaggerated)




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 03:47:00 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:47:00 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga2624+8etq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga277k+k8m9@eGroups.com>

> Anne Squires:
<HUGE SNIP>
 If the mayor asked the librarian to
> clarify his/her position and then gave hypothetical examples of
> potential books I would not be overly alarmed, especially if the books
> were not removed from the library.  It's the mayor's job to look out
> for the interests of all the citizens, not just the politically
> correct ones.

Alla:

And we have to agree to disagree here, because I will be extremely 
alarmed. I do not believe that it is a mayor's job to limit what other 
people who did not complain about the books can or cannot read. 
 
> From what I understand the librarian in question was later asked to
> resign by Palin; but that was totally unrelated to this issue. 
> Apparently the two incidents have been connected on the internet. But,
> as I said, supposedly the two are unrelated.


Alla:

Call me extremely cynical, but if this discussion did occur, and 
librarian decided to stand up for what she believed in, I do not buy 
for one second that the fact that she was asked to resign was not 
connected to that issue. Obviously my opinion.


> Anne Squires (who really does not know very much about the issue-- who
> just thinks it's something that has been overly exaggerated)

Alla:

Yes, exaggerated, maybe, but since something like that happened, I 
believe more and more that there is a grain of truth in there. maybe 
not all books reported were on the list - as you said, HP books not 
published, etc, but if **some of those** were, if such list existed, 
not cool, really not cool as far as I am concerned.

And believe me again, this has nothing to do with my political 
affiliation.

I do not like people who want to promote ignorance, that's all. To me 
banning books from library, means just that. And had it been democratic 
candidate, who would have wanted to take out books that republicans 
like I would have reacted the same way.

Honestly, I do respect the rights of parents to limit what their child 
read, even though this is something that my parents never did to me, I 
was never limited in what I could read and I think I turned out ok. But 
for somebody to tell me that **my child** (or right now children in my 
family to be precise) would not be able to read certain things, because 
those people find them inappropriate?

I want for them to decide for themselves, not for "concerned citizen" 
to decide for them.

JMO,

Alla





From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Mon Sep  8 04:06:25 2008
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:06:25 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga277k+k8m9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga28c1+bflu@eGroups.com>

Anne Squires:

Okay imagine this.  A city council meeting with the mayor presiding.

Bob Taxpayer goes up to the mic.

Bob:  Some fellow citizens and I don't like some of the books on the
library shelves.  We have made a list.

Mayor:  May I see your list?

Bob submits list for the mayor's consideration.

Mayor: May I ask why you object to these particular books?

Bob:  These books contain ideas.

Mayor:  Ms.  Librarian what is your position?

Ms. Librarian:  No.  I will not remove books from the library shelves.

Mayor: (looks at list) What about________________, or ______________?

Ms. Librarian:  No.

Mayor: Oh, okay then.  (Turns to Bob Taxpayer)  I have looked into the
matter for you.



I think that this is very likely how the whole thing pretty much went
down.  I could be wrong, of course.  At any rate, I see no problem
with the mayor's actions.  And, as for Mr. Bob Taxpayerr, he is within
his rights as well.  The mayor was just doing her job, imho.  She
couldn't very well say:  Mr. Taxpayer I refuse to take any action on
your behalf.

JMO, 

Anne





From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 04:24:34 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:24:34 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga2624+8etq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga29e2+p3ol@eGroups.com>

My information was that this was from minutes of the Library..

I will check further, and get back to you all..

My apologies if this information was incorrect.....

Again, I will double check..

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 04:27:22 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:27:22 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga2624+8etq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga29ja+hi5v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" 
<tfaucette6387 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > I agree that it is not completely correct. I do disagree from 
your 
> > links though that it is completely false either.
> > 
> > She asked to have some books banned, or am I misunderstanding? It 
is 
> > just that librarian appeared to be strong enough to say no to a 
mayor 
> > and mayor decided not to push. I mean, what else her question 
could 
> > mean?
> > 
> > 
> > The fact that she asked, is enough for me, frankly. Unless as I 
said 
> > I am misunderstanding your link to politico.
> >
> Anne Squires:
> 
> Let me reiterate that I am not a Palin supporter.  I just don't 
think
> this story is correct.  I think the proverbial mountain has been 
made
> out of a mole hill.  As noted, the incident was in 1996.  We all 
know
> that the HP books which are on the list had not even been published 
in
> 1996. That fact in and of itself puts the entire story in a very
> questionable light, IMHO.  Someone, somewhere did not check their 
facts.
> 
> From what I understand (and I admit I could be wrong about this)
> citizens have the right to challenge/question what is in a public
> library since their tax dollars support the library.  Apparently 
some
> citizens had complained about some of the books.  As mayor, Palin 
had
> to ask about the matter.  She had to ask the librarian about her
> position.  She was looking into the matter on behalf of some 
citizens.
> From the article, it looks like the discussion was at a town meeting
> or a city council meeting. I know that in my city all kinds of 
matters
> are brought before the mayor and the council.  I can easily 
envision a
> similar discussion taking place here.  At which point it would 
behoove
> the mayor to ask the librarian about it as a matter of course as 
part
> of investigating the matter.  If the mayor asked the librarian to
> clarify his/her position and then gave hypothetical examples of
> potential books I would not be overly alarmed, especially if the 
books
> were not removed from the library.  It's the mayor's job to look out
> for the interests of all the citizens, not just the politically
> correct ones.
> 
> From what I understand the librarian in question was later asked to
> resign by Palin; but that was totally unrelated to this issue. 
> Apparently the two incidents have been connected on the internet. 
But,
> as I said, supposedly the two are unrelated.
> 
> Anne Squires (who really does not know very much about the issue-- 
who
> just thinks it's something that has been overly exaggerated)
>


Anne, I do have accurate information that Gov. Palin asked that books 
be removed, that when they were not she tried to get the librarian 
fired, and that because of citizen uproar, she was not able to get 
the librarian fired. I'm confident of that information. I will post 
sources soon.

I will have to check again about the sources for the books that she 
asked to be removed, and I will get back to you. 

Susan




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 05:57:41 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:57:41 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga2624+8etq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga2esl+4ohf@eGroups.com>

> Anne Squires:
> Let me reiterate that I am not a Palin supporter.  I just don't 
> think this story is correct.  I think the proverbial mountain has
> been made out of a mole hill.  

Kemper now:
I'm concerned how deep the hole under the mole hill goes.


> Anne Squires:
> As noted, the incident was in 1996.  We all know
> that the HP books which are on the list had not even been published in
> 1996. That fact in and of itself puts the entire story in a very
> questionable light, IMHO.  Someone, somewhere did not check their facts.

Kemper now:
I agree.


> Anne Squires:
> From what I understand (and I admit I could be wrong about this)
> citizens have the right to challenge/question what is in a public
> library since their tax dollars support the library.  Apparently
> some citizens had complained about some of the books.  As mayor,
> Palin had to ask about the matter.  She had to ask the librarian
> about her position.  She was looking into the matter on behalf of
some citizens.

Kemper now:
That could be true.  And if it is, it's troubling.
What concerns me is why would she be looking into the matter unless
she felt similarly.  Would Mayor Palin speak to the director of the
local health clinic and inquire about the process of terminating a
pregnancy because some of her constituents wanted safe abortions? I
don't think so as she has no intention of helping those constituents
because their belief system differs from hers.

Librarians fought against the (un)PATRIOT ACT.  They are our
protectors defending us against those who would deny us our first
amendment rights... them and the ACLU.

The Frontiersman reposted a news article regarding the situation from
12 years ago.  You can find it here:
http://tinyurl.com/6adxhj


Kemper




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Sep  8 06:04:36 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 02:04:36 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Wand Work  (was Tom Felton: ...But What Word?)
In-Reply-To: <ga1sug+ogs9@eGroups.com>
References: <ga1rbm+u4it@eGroups.com> <ga1sug+ogs9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <7B27D88C8D98442BB2FDD3059869D92B@FRODO>

| --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
| 
| > But, I think that is exactly how it was intended. What could
| > Ron possibly mean? That catching girls is all about spell
| > casting? That doesn't make much moral, legal, or logical sense.
| > So, I think 'wand work' means exactly what you think it means.

| [zanooda]:

| You really think so? LOL! I guessed that maybe JKR was being a little
| naughty here :-), but I thought she meant for Ron to say it innocently

[Lee]:
Just a personal opinion, but so often I have seen things said simply with no
innuendo or anything intended and people so many times jump to the worst
interpretation.  It's happened to me where I'd say something and it's
completely warped by my listener to something dirty or whatever, much to my
disgust and dismay.  I don't know why that is and it saddens me.

Cheers,

Lee

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Sep  8 05:18:48 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 01:18:48 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga28c1+bflu@eGroups.com>
References: <ga277k+k8m9@eGroups.com> <ga28c1+bflu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005b01c91172$641c4cd0$2c54e670$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anne_t_squires
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:06 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from
the library - sigh



I think that this is very likely how the whole thing pretty much went
down.  I could be wrong, of course.  At any rate, I see no problem
with the mayor's actions.  And, as for Mr. Bob Taxpayerr, he is within
his rights as well.  The mayor was just doing her job, imho.  She
couldn't very well say:  Mr. Taxpayer I refuse to take any action on
your behalf.

JMO, 

Anne



------------------------------------
They tell Mr. Taxpayer they refuse to take action all the time.

As mayor you say, sorry, first amendment. Next.

As mayor you say, "this isn't Nazi Germany"

As mayor you say, "Unless some law prohibits sales to minors, there's
nothing to discuss."

That's what the Mayor does.

If Mr. Taxpayer says "Mayor, I think the breast of my sons teacher are too
large, and though covered, too distracting for him to learn." 
Does Mayor have to look into the "big breast" issue just because Mr.
Taxpayer said so?

md




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Sep  8 06:36:03 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 02:36:03 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga28c1+bflu@eGroups.com>
References: <ga277k+k8m9@eGroups.com> <ga28c1+bflu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4FE398CDBFED4910A566931A5D6A46E2@FRODO>

| Anne Squires:
| 
| Okay imagine this.  A city council meeting with the mayor presiding.
| 
| Bob Taxpayer goes up to the mic.
| 
| Bob:  Some fellow citizens and I don't like some of the books on the
| library shelves.  We have made a list.
| 
| Mayor:  May I see your list?
| 
| Bob submits list for the mayor's consideration.
| 
| Mayor: May I ask why you object to these particular books?
| 
| Bob:  These books contain ideas.
| 
| Mayor:  Ms.  Librarian what is your position?
| 
| Ms. Librarian:  No.  I will not remove books from the library shelves.
| 
| Mayor: (looks at list) What about________________, or ______________?
| 
| Ms. Librarian:  No.
| 
| Mayor: Oh, okay then.  (Turns to Bob Taxpayer)  I have looked into the
| matter for you.
| 
| 
| 
| I think that this is very likely how the whole thing pretty much went
| down.  I could be wrong, of course.  At any rate, I see no problem
| with the mayor's actions.  And, as for Mr. Bob Taxpayerr, he is within
| his rights as well.  The mayor was just doing her job, imho.  She
| couldn't very well say:  Mr. Taxpayer I refuse to take any action on
| your behalf.

[Lee]:
Well, I don't know about that.  She could have said to Bob Taxpayer that his
complaint has been noted, but Librarian reports that Lee Taxpayer and at
least 75% of the Taxpayer family regularly check out these books.  The mayor
could then proclaim that to make one Bob Taxpayer happy at the expense of
the rest of the Taxpayer family would not be in the best interest of the
city.  Furthermore, if Bob Taxpayer has such a loathing for Yada-Yada books,
he should remember that the books he likes may be just as revolting to the
rest of the Taxpayer family.  Since they're not complaining and demanding
his fave books be ousted, it would be far more neighborly of him to act in
kind.

JMHO

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Sep  8 11:51:48 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:51:48 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga29e2+p3ol@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga33kk+76lo@eGroups.com>

 "susanmcgee48176" wrote:
>
> My information was that this was from minutes of the Library..
> 
> I will check further, and get back to you all..

Potioncat:
I'm glad you posted. We are a curious, questioning bunch. If we will 
discuss at great length the meaning of DD's gleam  then we'll really 
chew on something of more importance.

> Kemper now:
 
> The Frontiersman reposted a news article regarding the situation 
from
> 12 years ago.  You can find it here:
> http://tinyurl.com/6adxhj


Potioncat (undecided about the election at this point, so not yet 
supporting either side)

Having read the article, I don't know how Pallin stands on banning 
books. I can picture these questions being asked in this way to test 
the librarian's resolve. So this article doesn't tell me enough to 
decide. It does tell me that some sources have combined stories into 
an inaccurate one. 

As to the list itself. "My Brother Sam is Dead" was required reading 
in my son's 6th grade. It is a miserable, demoralizing book. Took all 
the glory out of war, and brought our deified Revolutionary ancestors 
back to human earth. I recommend it. (But I was glad my younger one 
didn't read it in 6th grade, because I didn't want to go through it 
again.)





From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 14:17:14 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:17:14 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library -hoax
In-Reply-To: <ga33kk+76lo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3c5a+oma6@eGroups.com>

humble and profound apologies to all. Susan




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 14:17:31 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:17:31 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga2esl+4ohf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3c5r+6k5q@eGroups.com>


> > Anne Squires:
> > As noted, the incident was in 1996.  We all know
> > that the HP books which are on the list had not even been published in
> > 1996. That fact in and of itself puts the entire story in a very
> > questionable light, IMHO.  Someone, somewhere did not check their
facts.
 
> Kemper then:
> I agree.

Kemper now:
I still agree.  I checked the City of Wasilla website.  Apparently,
they've been quite inundated with questions from the media.

They have a link to their policy in regards to the 'reconsidering' a
book as opposed to 'banning/censuring' one. On the same link is a list
of books that were publicly brought before the library for
reconsideration that date back pre-1986 to present.  There are only
four books, none of which were considered under Palin's term.

Going off topic sort of... One of the books was America (the book):A
Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction by Jon Steward (and friends). 
This book is hilarious!  If you haven't read it, I encourage you to
reconsider that personal decision. 

Here's a link to the city's link's regarding library (and other Palin
topics):
http://tinyurl.com/5f4qwf

Kemper




From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 14:37:15 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:37:15 -0000
Subject: banned books in the U.S.
In-Reply-To: <ga3c5r+6k5q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3dar+pu8o@eGroups.com>

It actually 
comes from _http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html_ 
(http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html) . It's a compendium of all 
books banned anywhere in the United 
States." 





From Schlobin at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 14:40:40 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <4FE398CDBFED4910A566931A5D6A46E2@FRODO>
Message-ID: <ga3dh8+smj3@eGroups.com>

>From what I understand, the librarian refused to take books off the 
shelf, Ms. Palin tried to fire her, and there had to be a big brouhaha 
so that the librarian could stay. 

I will be more careful about checking my sources.

Anyway, the problem with banning books is that it's a slippery slope.

The only reason, for example, that A Wind in the Door, would be banned 
is that it mentions witches. That one is kind a strange since they are 
Christian based books...but then, of course, so is Harry Potter.....

So......

Susan




From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Sep  8 14:53:23 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:53:23 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library - sigh
In-Reply-To: <ga3c5r+6k5q@eGroups.com>
References: <ga2esl+4ohf@eGroups.com> <ga3c5r+6k5q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004801c911c2$a4afebd0$ee0fc370$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kempermentor
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:18 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from
the library - sigh

Going off topic sort of... One of the books was America (the book):A
Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction by Jon Steward (and friends). 
This book is hilarious!  If you haven't read it, I encourage you to
reconsider that personal decision. 

Here's a link to the city's link's regarding library (and other Palin
topics):
http://tinyurl.com/5f4qwf

Kemper

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

That book contained an explicit photo-shopped photo of the supreme court
justices naked. Understandably, because it's not a "work of art" it may be
considered, legally, unsuitable for minors.

md




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 15:16:54 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:16:54 -0000
Subject: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <004801c911c2$a4afebd0$ee0fc370$@com>
Message-ID: <ga3fl6+j2o5@eGroups.com>


> Kemper:
> Going off topic sort of... One of the books was America (the book):A
> Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction by Jon Steward (and friends). 
> This book is hilarious!  If you haven't read it, I encourage you to
> reconsider that personal decision. 


> md:
> That book contained an explicit photo-shopped photo of the supreme court
> justices naked. Understandably, because it's not a "work of art" it
may be
> considered, legally, unsuitable for minors.

Kemper now:
But there are robes you can use to cover them up.  
As for 'work of art', if a crucifix in piss is considered art, then so
can photos(c)hop.  Also, none of the male justices are at 12 o'clock.
 And besides... what self-respecting minor would be interested in
seeing the happy parts of old-people unless it's for a chuckle?  

Kemper




From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Sep  8 16:28:51 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:28:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <ga3fl6+j2o5@eGroups.com>
References: <004801c911c2$a4afebd0$ee0fc370$@com> <ga3fl6+j2o5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <009001c911cf$fadd9d60$f098d820$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kempermentor
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:17 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] America (The Book) was: list of books ...

Kemper now:
But there are robes you can use to cover them up.  
As for 'work of art', if a crucifix in piss is considered art, then so
can photos(c)hop.  Also, none of the male justices are at 12 o'clock.
 And besides... what self-respecting minor would be interested in
seeing the happy parts of old-people unless it's for a chuckle?  

Kemper

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

First of all, I own and love the book.
Second, I barely censor anything for my own kids.
Third, I find all instances of Christ on a cross disgusting, first because I
don't believe in Christ as anything more than a man, and second because
displaying a tortured, dying person in agony is sadistic.(with the exception
of my "tortured souls" figures, but they don't hang over my fireplace, and I
never pray to them).
Forth, I don't think Jon Stuart, the author, considers that photo art, and
since he owns it, it's his call.
Finally, I was only speaking to the legality, Hustler contains humor and
satire and it's not distributed to minors.

I don't think photo-shops of naked old people for the purpose of satire is
the same as censoring words and ideas. I know my 6 and 9 year old girls are
ready for Harry Potter, but not photos of old, naked men. They would just
find it confusing as to why people would showcase such a thing. Maybe if the
school glued the robes on before putting the book out! I think middle and
high-school might be an okay place to have such material.

Still, if they can't put out "Playboy" then I guess the line is drawn at
non-sexual, air-brushed nudity.

md




From jkoney65 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 17:08:10 2008
From: jkoney65 at yahoo.com (jkoney65)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:08:10 -0000
Subject: WSJ
Message-ID: <ga3m5q+ln14@eGroups.com>

Does it strike anyone else as odd that one of the front page articles 
on the Wall Street Journal is about Harry Potter Fans being upset that 
they moved the release date of the movie? Especially when two of the 
others are about the government taking over Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae.






From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Sep  8 17:53:02 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:53:02 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WSJ
In-Reply-To: <ga3m5q+ln14@eGroups.com>
References: <ga3m5q+ln14@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c911db$bd489390$37d9bab0$@com>


-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jkoney65
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:08 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WSJ

Does it strike anyone else as odd that one of the front page articles 
on the Wall Street Journal is about Harry Potter Fans being upset that 
they moved the release date of the movie? Especially when two of the 
others are about the government taking over Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Well, since it was a move intended entirely for financial reasons, no, it
doesn't. I'd like though, to read the article.

Besides Rowling has more cash on hand than Freddie or Fannie (what idiot
named those places?) What's truly ironic is that when founded they where
government run, part of Regan / Bush /Bush policy is to close down or
privatize all government institutions. You can see with Fanny and Freddie
how well that works! What's great is they claim that government is going to
f-everything up, but when it gets's f-up government steps in and takes it
over to fix it. Talk about talking out both sides?

Ahhh! Politics.

md






From kenadams705 at btinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 17:38:47 2008
From: kenadams705 at btinternet.com (KEN ADAMS)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:38:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
Message-ID: <657769.98180.qm@web87008.mail.ird.yahoo.com>








Sorry Geoff.
I sent the wrong one I had meant to send this one:



----- Original Message ----
From: KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at btinternet.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 8 September, 2008 6:27:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????


While here in Dorset (UK) our major river is the river Piddle. 
Numerous villages are named after it such as Piddletrenhyde 
and even Much Piddle. Tolpuddle of martyrs fame is a changed
?name, doctored after the martyrs went to the High Court, where 
it was considered inappropriate. The villages name was changed 
from Tolpiddle??
Geoff

Most of the euphemisms for a gentleman's equipment are 
fairly harmless ones; they wouldn't make me blush and I'm 
not one for swearing. After all, if we can cope with a well-known 
West Country hill called Brown Willy without too much 
sniggering.. ... Curiously, the one which I find silly which I think
I have only seen in US English is "manhood" which for some 
reason makes me chuckle.

No, the words which are normally bleeped and ones at which I 
personally take umbrage if I hear them are the f-word, the 
c-word and the s-word.

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 18:11:52 2008
From: jaynesmith62 at btinternet.com (Jayne)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: Maxine on border control
Message-ID: <ga3pt8+fleh@eGroups.com>


I loved this. Tickled my weird Sense of Humour

Jayne
UK 



Subject: Maxine on border control ( U.S.)- Ya gotta luv Maxine 
Sometimes I think Maxine should run for president.  

   
Everyone concentrates on the problems we're having in this country 
lately:  illegal immigration, hurricane recovery, alligators 
attacking people in Florida ...  
 


Not me.  I concentrate on solutions for the problems.  It's a win-win 
situation. 

+ Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. 

+ Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levies. 

+ Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border. 

Any other problems you would like for me to solve today ?  Yes! 

Think about this one : 

1. Cows 
2..The Constitution 
3. The Ten Commandments   



C O W S   

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that during the 
mad cow epidemic our government could track a single cow, born in 
Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she slept in 
the state of Washington?  And, they tracked her calves to their 
stalls. But they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens 
wandering around our country.  Maybe we should give each one of them 
a cow!.   



T H E    C O N S T I T U T I O N   

They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq   .... Why 
don't we just give them ours?  It was written by a lot of really 
smart guys,  it has worked for over 200 years,  and we're not using 
it anymore.   



T H E   1 0    C O M M A N D M E N T S   

The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments posted in a 
courthouse is this: 
You cannot post 'Thou Shalt Not Steal,' 'Thou Shalt Not Commit 
Adultery,' and 'Thou Shall Not Lie' in a building full of lawyers, 
judges and politicians...It creates a hostile work environment. 

PART OF THE PROBLEM 


Also, Think about this: If you don't want to forward this for fear of 
offending 
someone-- YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!     

Yep, I passed it on! 

  
 
 
 





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Mon Sep  8 18:18:25 2008
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:18:25 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga3m5q+ln14@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3q9h+3fmp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jkoney65" <jkoney65 at ...> wrote:
>
> Does it strike anyone else as odd that one of the front page articles 
> on the Wall Street Journal is about Harry Potter Fans being upset
that they moved the release date of the movie? 

Pippin:
The WSJ always includes a "human interest" story on its front page.
Here's a link to the article, you'll have to cut and paste it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122083361232508617.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 But it looks like the biggest Potter story today is that the judge
has ruled for JKR in her lawsuit. No details yet.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hIGNIcztySvpGhm95iGPhNL7ov1AD932M4P00

Pippin




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 18:30:51 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:30:51 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga3q9h+3fmp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3r0r+fdn6@eGroups.com>

> Pippin:
<SNIP>
>>  But it looks like the biggest Potter story today is that the judge
> has ruled for JKR in her lawsuit. No details yet.
> 
> 
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hIGNIcztySvpGhm95iGPhNL7ov1AD932M4P00
> 
> Pippin


Alla:

OOOOO, am very pleased and would love to read complete decision. Thank 
you Pippin.





From nrenka at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 19:33:32 2008
From: nrenka at yahoo.com (nrenka)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:33:32 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga3r0r+fdn6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3umc+muft@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:

> Alla:
> 
> OOOOO, am very pleased and would love to read complete decision. Thank 
> you Pippin.

Complete decision:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/potterdecision.pdf

Those of us who had noted the sheer amount of material and the
closeness of the paraphrase, as well as the other failures of academic
apparatus seem to be vindicated in this judgment.  The actual
conclusions start on page 29 of the pdf.

-n




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 19:37:25 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:37:25 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga3umc+muft@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga3utl+i9lo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "nrenka" <nrenka at ...> wrote:
> Complete decision:
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/potterdecision.pdf
> 
> Those of us who had noted the sheer amount of material and the
> closeness of the paraphrase, as well as the other failures of academic
> apparatus seem to be vindicated in this judgment.  The actual
> conclusions start on page 29 of the pdf.
> 
> -n
>


Alla:

I just started reading, so cannot comment yet much, but yes am feeling 
very smug on several arguments already. But honestly and truly, first 
and foremost without any irony or sarcasm I believe that this is the 
situation when justice is served.

And boy can this man ( and/or his law clerks) write. 






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 20:48:08 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 20:48:08 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga1esd+tee2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga4328+4gds@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but
I have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR,
who is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up
with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" ,snip>.
> > > > 
> > Potioncat responded:
<snip>
> > > > BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any
sub-meaning? I didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the
characters, even if in some cases the use could be misconstrued.
> > > 
> > Geoff:
> > > I would say not. If someone else sees a unintended double
entendre in a statement, then that is their interpretation and not
that of the speaker or writer. <snip>
> > 
> > Carol responds:
> > You don't think that JKR is doing it deliberately? 
> 
> Geoff:
> Did I say that?  I was actually answering Potioncat's musings.
Because of that, may I point out that my sentence began with a
conditional clause?
>
Carol responds:
Forgive me for misreading you. I did, of course, see the conditional
clause, but it relates to what the reader sees, which, I agree does
not *necesssarily* reflect the writer's intentions. However, you
seemed to imply that JKR (and the speakers) intended no double
entendre. I hope you can understand why I read it as I did. I
certainly intended no offense.

Carol, who only wants to know whether Geoff thinks, as she does, that
JKR is intentionally setting up double entendres not necessarily
intended by the speaker




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 21:01:46 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:01:46 -0000
Subject: Wand Work  (was Tom Felton: ...But What Word?)
In-Reply-To: <ga1sug+ogs9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga43rq+qor8@eGroups.com>

"Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> 
> > But, I think that is exactly how it was intended. What could Ron
possibly mean? That catching girls is all about spell casting? That
doesn't make much moral, legal, or logical sense. So, I think 'wand
work' means exactly what you think it means.
> 
> 
zanooda responded: 
> You really think so? LOL! I guessed that maybe JKR was being a
little naughty here :-), but I thought she meant for Ron to say it
innocently
> :-).

Carol adds:

I agree with zanooda--Ron, for whom wands are a fact of life and are
used by Wizards and Witches alike, seems to mean that impressing girls
involves more than being a powerful or skillful spell caster. (After
all, the girl might be just as good or better at that sort of "wand
work" than the boy, which happens to be the case with Ron and
Hermione.) The book title itself, IIRC, contains some sort of pun on
charm (a character trait) and Charm (a category of spell). IMO, it's
JKR who's being naughty here, not Ron (though of the Trio, he's
certainly the most likely to make an off-color joke).

I think that JKR is writing on two levels here, for kids who won't get
the pun and for adults and older teens who will (whether they
appreciate it or not is another matter).

Carol, wishing that JKR would refrain from jokes relating to body
parts and bodily functions




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 21:46:10 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:46:10 -0000
Subject: list of books Sarah Palin wanted removed from the library -hoax
In-Reply-To: <ga3c5a+oma6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga46f2+6ce9@eGroups.com>

"susanmcgee48176" wrote:
>
> humble and profound apologies to all. Susan

Carol responds:

Thanks, Susan. I'm deleting my response to your original post as it's
no longer relevant.

Carol, who thinks we'll all need to be very careful which Internet
sources we cite or believe during the upcoming campaign!




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 21:59:30 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:59:30 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga4328+4gds@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga4782+9dmi@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol earlier:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but
> I have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR,
> who is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up
> with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" ,snip>.
> > > > > 
> > > Potioncat responded:
> <snip>
> > > > > BTW, is it innuendo if the speaker didn't intend any
> sub-meaning? I didn't pick up on any sly use of wands by the
> characters, even if in some cases the use could be misconstrued.
> > > > 
> > > Geoff:
> > > > I would say not. If someone else sees a unintended double
> entendre in a statement, then that is their interpretation and not
> that of the speaker or writer. <snip>
> > > 
> > > Carol responds:
> > > You don't think that JKR is doing it deliberately? 
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > Did I say that?  I was actually answering Potioncat's musings.
> Because of that, may I point out that my sentence began with a
> conditional clause?
> >
> Carol responds:
> Forgive me for misreading you. I did, of course, see the conditional
> clause, but it relates to what the reader sees, which, I agree does
> not *necesssarily* reflect the writer's intentions. However, you
> seemed to imply that JKR (and the speakers) intended no double
> entendre. I hope you can understand why I read it as I did. I
> certainly intended no offense.

Geoff:
Potioncat posed a general question. My reply was a general one; I 
don't think that either of us were focussing on the specific case of 
JKR.

I note your comment about bodily parts but I wonder whether JKR 
would be sufficiently conversant with all the varied words for male 
equipment that there are, especially as you yourself suggested that 
"wand" hasn't usually been one of them, and also speaking from my
informed position as someone who grew up in a teenage male 
environment....
:-)




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 22:11:42 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:11:42 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga3q9h+3fmp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga47uu+ga30@eGroups.com>

Pippin wrote:
> The WSJ always includes a "human interest" story on its front page.
Here's a link to the article, you'll have to cut and paste it.
> 
>
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122083361232508617.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
> 
>  But it looks like the biggest Potter story today is that the judge
has ruled for JKR in her lawsuit. No details yet.
> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hIGNIcztySvpGhm95iGPhNL7ov1AD932M4P00

Carol responds:

I hope JKR and WB are happy with the outcome of the lawsuit. I think
the idea that the Lexicon would "irreparably harm her" is rubbish. As
for the fuss being made about the release date, IMO, some of Harry
Potter's ostensibly grown-up fans should learn to act like grown ups
and take delay and disappointment in stride as an inevitable part of
life. Sending venomous e-mails (misspelled into the bargain) just sets
a bad example for the younger generation.

Carol, expecting the majority of posters here to (politely) disagree
with her on all counts 




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 22:23:28 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:23:28 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga47uu+ga30@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga48l0+el2g@eGroups.com>

> Carol, expecting the majority of posters here to (politely) disagree
> with her on all counts <SNIP of the post>

Alla:

Yes indeed. On all counts except the misspelled e-mails. ;)






From lwilliams15209 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 22:24:10 2008
From: lwilliams15209 at yahoo.com (lwilliams15209)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:24:10 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga47uu+ga30@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga48ma+jrnt@eGroups.com>



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:


> Carol responds:
>
> I hope JKR and WB are happy with the outcome of the lawsuit. I think
> the idea that the Lexicon would "irreparably harm her" is rubbish. As
> for the fuss being made about the release date, IMO, some of Harry
> Potter's ostensibly grown-up fans should learn to act like grown ups
> and take delay and disappointment in stride as an inevitable part of
> life. Sending venomous e-mails (misspelled into the bargain) just sets
> a bad example for the younger generation.
>
> Carol, expecting the majority of posters here to (politely) disagree
> with her on all counts

   Linda adds:

   I agree with you on all counts. Just wanted to add that in there. Your
thoughtful and well-reasoned/researched posts are one of the few things
that has kept me hanging around on the fringes of the Potter world.
Thank you for all the effort you put into your posts. Your insights and
opinions have been well-received (and agreed with) by some of the silent
ones here.

   As for irreparable damage, JK did that herself with what was in my
humble opinion shoddy writing. I won't ever read anything else she
writes. As for the films, at this point, I really don't care anymore. It
isn't something I look forward to at all.







From foxmoth at qnet.com  Mon Sep  8 22:42:29 2008
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:42:29 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <ga1d83+2qht@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga49ol+nbkr@eGroups.com>


Carol:
> > > > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British slang, but I
> have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until JKR,
who is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, came up
> with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" as a line spoken by
> straight-laced Hermione to Ron, one that a child can understand in
its primary meaning (intended by Hermione) but for which a knowing
adult could (or would naturally) supply the phallic innuendo.
> > > 

Pippin:
JKR may have made the  innuendo popular, but she certainly didn't make
it up.

A little googling produced the information that Hitachi has been
selling a personal massager called a Magic Wand for at least
twenty-five years. 

Pippin




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 23:08:13 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:08:13 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga48ma+jrnt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga4b8t+q4t2@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> >
> > I hope JKR and WB are happy with the outcome of the lawsuit. I
think the idea that the Lexicon would "irreparably harm her" is
rubbish. As for the fuss being made about the release date, IMO, some
of Harry Potter's ostensibly grown-up fans should learn to act like
grown ups and take delay and disappointment in stride as an inevitable
part of life. Sending venomous e-mails (misspelled into the bargain)
just sets a bad example for the younger generation.
> >
> > Carol, expecting the majority of posters here to (politely)
disagree with her on all counts
> 
Linda added:
> 
>    I agree with you on all counts. Just wanted to add that in there.
Your thoughtful and well-reasoned/researched posts are one of the few
things that has kept me hanging around on the fringes of the Potter
world. Thank you for all the effort you put into your posts. Your
insights and opinions have been well-received (and agreed with) by
some of the silent ones here. <snip>

Carol responds:

Thank you very much and you're welcome. It's some consolation that the
judge ruled against the plaintiffs on some points (for example, they
stated that the Lexicon does serve a transformative *purpose* (despite
too many quotations and close paraphrases) and is unlikely to harm JKR
by serving as a substitute for reading the novels (though they thought
it might harm sales of FB and QTTA, which I find doubtful given the
humorous and specialized nature of those works). I agree, and have
always stated, that the songs and poems should not have been
reproduced without permission. That much clearly was not fair use. But
to argue that publication of the Lexicon will irreparably harm JKr and
pervent her from writing her own encyclopedia is just stupid. The
existence of the Lexicon online, freely available to everybody, didn't
prevent her. Why would the existence of the Lexicon in book form,
which only ardent JKR fans would buy, make any difference? Those same
fans and many others would be at least as willing and probably more so
to buy JKR's own "definitive" encyclopedia, which would include new
material in a completely different arrangement. That argument, as the
kids would say, is "just bogus." And at least the judge assigned the
smallest possible award to the plaintiffs (JKR and WB), $750 per book,
for a grand total of $6,750. That'll buy JKR a new dress and pay the
salary of one or two WB employees for a month. (To me, it would be a
substantial sum. To JKR and WB, it's pocket change. At least, given
his contract with his would-be publisher, Steve Vander Ark won't have
to pay it himself; the publisher will. And, of course, they'll be
denied whatever small profits they would have made from the
"infringing" book.)

Carol, noting that the statement does encourage similar projects and
admit that reference guides serve the public interest, so fair use is
not harmed as substantially as I had feared it would be






From utkari02 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 22:49:02 2008
From: utkari02 at yahoo.com (Kari)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:49:02 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga48ma+jrnt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga4a4u+h8aj@eGroups.com>

> Linda:
> As for irreparable damage, JK did that herself with what was in my
> humble opinion shoddy writing. I won't ever read anything else she
> writes. As for the films, at this point, I really don't care anymore.
> It isn't something I look forward to at all.

Kari adds:

I second that.





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 00:41:56 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:41:56 -0000
Subject: WSJ also JKR lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <ga47uu+ga30@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga4gok+lhv3@eGroups.com>

> Carol:
> ... As
> for the fuss being made about the release date, IMO, some of Harry
> Potter's ostensibly grown-up fans should learn to act like grown ups
> and take delay and disappointment in stride as an inevitable part of
> life. Sending venomous e-mails (misspelled into the bargain) just sets
> a bad example for the younger generation.

Kemper now:
I thinking sending emails is a great example for our youth.  The
wording, however, could be different.  Also, the article only showed
the kooky angry.  It also compared howlers to hate mail.  Not quite
accurate.  The reporter obviously has not read the books.  The email I
sent on the other hand, was not used as example of a disappointed fan
even though it was rational.

Delays and disappointments are a part of life.  But they don't always
need to be.  

I prefer youth to use their voice.  I also prefer more elders to set
better examples. Our culture is apathetic enough and could use a bit
of passion (though compassion would be better).  

kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 01:48:57 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:48:57 -0000
Subject: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <009001c911cf$fadd9d60$f098d820$@com>
Message-ID: <ga4km9+k8f2@eGroups.com>

> Kemper earlier:
> But there are robes you can use to cover them up.  
> As for 'work of art', if a crucifix in piss is considered art, then 
> so can photos(c)hop.  Also, none of the male justices are at 12 o'clock.
>  And besides... what self-respecting minor would be interested in
> seeing the happy parts of old-people unless it's for a chuckle?  

> md:
> First of all, I own and love the book.
> Second, I barely censor anything for my own kids.
> Third, I find all instances of Christ on a cross disgusting, first
because I don't believe in Christ as anything more than a man, and
second because displaying a tortured, dying person in agony is
sadistic.(with the exception of my "tortured souls" figures, but they
don't hang over my fireplace, and I never pray to them).
> Forth, I don't think Jon Stuart, the author, considers that photo
art, and since he owns it, it's his call.
> Finally, I was only speaking to the legality, Hustler contains humor
and satire and it's not distributed to minors.

Kemper now:
Fifty-seventh, I thought you were jesting about the legal issue.  

Four hundred twentieth (werd), I think calling people who have
crucifixes 'sadistic' is a bit harsh.  Who cares what they have or who
they pray to, it's their actions and interactions that matter.  I know
not all Christian are good people, but that could be said with any
group of people from atheists to zen Buddhists. 

twelfth (what an odd combination of consonants), the Wasilla library
thought no there was no legal issue


> md:
> I don't think photo-shops of naked old people for the purpose of
satire is the same as censoring words and ideas. 

Kemper now:
I don't know... people were heated at Swift's 'Modest Proposal'. 
People were (some maybe still are) looking to ban Twain's 'Huckleberry
Finn.'  Both are satirical works.  Why should a photo get special
consideration over words and ideas?  


> md:
> I know my 6 and 9 year old girls are ready for Harry Potter, but not
photos of old, naked men. They would just find it confusing as to why
people would showcase such a thing.

Kemper now:
Well, at 6 and 9 you could have a conversation about it.  But I'm sure
they would never see the naked old men (and women)... then again,
maybe they already have, it is in the house.  When I was 9, I went
through stuff of the adults in my life, more out of curiosity than
anything.  I found stuff and never told them.  I'm sure the Library
didn't code 'America: The Book' into the children's section.  It's
prolly in the Dewey system somewhere.

> md:
> Maybe if the school glued the robes on before putting the book out! 

Kemper now:
That's so hilarious, and it would be so awesome! :)






From md at exit-reality.com  Tue Sep  9 02:18:39 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:18:39 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <ga4km9+k8f2@eGroups.com>
References: <009001c911cf$fadd9d60$f098d820$@com> <ga4km9+k8f2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <02bb01c91222$5fafbaf0$1f0f30d0$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kempermentor
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: America (The Book) was: list of books ...

Kemper now:
Fifty-seventh, I thought you were jesting about the legal issue.  
> md:
> Maybe if the school glued the robes on before putting the book out! 

Kemper now:
That's so hilarious, and it would be so awesome! :)




------------------------------------
I was trying to be realistic and light at the same time. Don't want it too
serious.

md




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 06:45:41 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 06:45:41 -0000
Subject: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <009001c911cf$fadd9d60$f098d820$@com>
Message-ID: <ga562l+ajhq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> First of all, I own and love the book.
> Second, I barely censor anything for my own kids.
> Third, I find all instances of Christ on a cross disgusting,......

Geoff:

Speaking as an evangelical Christian, although I wouldn't quite use 
your terminology, I would agree that I dislike a crucifix which is an 
opinion also held by a majority of Christians other than Catholics and 
high Anglicans because it presents the wrong view of our faith.

Christians believe that Jesus was God in human form and that, after 
the crucifixion, he rose from the grave to demonstrate his power over 
death and to offer salvation to men and women.

Hence, the crucifix marks an event now over and done with, which is why 
most churches (and those Christians who choose to wear one) display 
a plain cross without any adornment or representation of Christ.







From kenadams705 at btinternet.com  Tue Sep  9 11:10:31 2008
From: kenadams705 at btinternet.com (KEN ADAMS)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:10:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
Message-ID: <196856.28613.qm@web87007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message ----
From: KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at btinternet.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 8 September, 2008 6:31:57 PM
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????


Sorry Geoff.
I had understood that HPGU Chatter was unmoderated, I sent my reply and nothing happened, so, frustrated,?I sent it again, and again nothing happened,?thoroughly frustrated,?I tried again ?but bungled on the paste button, went off to dinner. Then I got a message from an elf, who probably because this is my first posting to this group; I prefer to lie in the background and find out what everybody else thinks; thuoght I was a spammer and had held up my posts to check. She recognised that all three were the same lead and decided to only send one of them, the wrong one together with a message to say that I had been demodded which doesn't seem to be too painful.
My apologies I had no intention of trying to imply that you were obsessed with this subject.?
I had meant to send this one:



----- Original Message ----
From: KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at btinternet.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 8 September, 2008 6:27:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????


While here in Dorset (UK) our major river is the river Piddle. 
Numerous villages are named after it such as Piddletrenhyde 
and even Much Piddle. Tolpuddle of martyrs fame is a changed
?name, doctored after the martyrs went to the High Court, where 
it was considered inappropriate. The villages name was changed 
from Tolpiddle??
Geoff

Most of the euphemisms for a gentleman's equipment are 
fairly harmless ones; they wouldn't make me blush and I'm 
not one for swearing. After all, if we can cope with a well-known 
West Country hill called Brown Willy without too much 
sniggering.. ... Curiously, the one which I find silly which I think
I have only seen in US English is "manhood" which for some 
reason makes me chuckle.

No, the words which are normally bleeped and ones at which I 
personally take umbrage if I hear them are the f-word, the 
c-word and the s-word.

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Sep  9 12:14:20 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:14:20 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <ga4782+9dmi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga5pas+3u2r@eGroups.com>

> > Carol earlier:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Obviously, I'm no expert on up-and-coming British 
slang, but
> > I have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until 
JKR,
> > who is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, 
came up
> > with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" ,snip>.

Potioncat:
The use of wand in the Equus article was that author's innuendo 
cleverly (or so he thought) combining Potter with Equus.

Do you remember where Hermione said "wand in a knot"? Isn't "don't 
get your knickers in a knot" British slang for "don't get so upset"? 

The example I gave---my son laughing at a wand comment--was his own 
13-year-old sense of humor. At that age just about anything can 
become innuendo. I went back to find it to provide canon. 

**In DH, "The Seven Potters" Moody speaks to Fred who replies,

"I'm George," said the twin to whom Moody was pointing. "Can't you 
even tell us apart when we're Harry?"

"Sorry George--"

"I'm only yanking your wand. I'm Fred really--"  ***

While it could be innuendo, clearly it isn't meant to be. "Yanking 
your wand" sounds a lot like "pulling your leg", "pushing your 
buttons" or "jerking your chain." Are those used in England? I 
thought her several uses of wands in a phrase was similar to "cat 
among the pixies" or whatever it was Mrs. Fig said.

 

> > > > Geoff:
> > > > > I would say not. If someone else sees a unintended double
> > entendre in a statement, then that is their interpretation and not
> > that of the speaker or writer. <snip>

Potioncat:
So is there a counterpart, like infer is to imply? 


Carol, I see your point, that the author can intend something, even 
if the character doesn't. But it seems that would seriously impede 
the flow of the plot. I mean, if she set it up for kids to go beserk 
over the wording when it had nothing to do with the situation, then 
it's going to change how the scene is felt.

Granted, JKR has placed little gems throughout the books, that the 
reader can get or not. (Other than double entendres) Given JKR's 
interviews about Aberforth's goats, you could be right about the 
other examples. There were some lines connected to the book Ron gave 
Harry---I think that was mentioned upthread---that may have been 
intentional. But I really think that sometimes a wand is just a wand.











From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 14:36:36 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:36:36 -0000
Subject: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What Word????
In-Reply-To: <196856.28613.qm@web87007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ga61lk+ebrv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at ...>
> To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 8 September, 2008 6:31:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What 
Word????
> 
> 
> Sorry Geoff.
> I had understood that HPGU Chatter was unmoderated, I sent my reply and nothing 
happened, so, frustrated,??I sent it again, and again nothing happened,??thoroughly 
frustrated,??I tried again ??but bungled on the paste button, went off to dinner. Then I got 
a message from an elf, who probably because this is my first posting to this group; I 
prefer to lie in the background and find out what everybody else thinks; thuoght I was a 
spammer and had held up my posts to check. She recognised that all three were the same 
lead and decided to only send one of them, the wrong one together with a message to say 
that I had been demodded which doesn't seem to be too painful.
> My apologies I had no intention of trying to imply that you were obsessed with this 
subject.??
> I had meant to send this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at ...>
> To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 8 September, 2008 6:27:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What 
Word????
> 
> 
> While here in Dorset (UK) our major river is the river Piddle. 
> Numerous villages are named after it such as Piddletrenhyde 
> and even Much Piddle. Tolpuddle of martyrs fame is a changed
> ??name, doctored after the martyrs went to the High Court, where 
> it was considered inappropriate. The villages name was changed 
> from Tolpiddle????
> Geoff
> 
> Most of the euphemisms for a gentleman's equipment are 
> fairly harmless ones; they wouldn't make me blush and I'm 
> not one for swearing. After all, if we can cope with a well-known 
> West Country hill called Brown Willy without too much 
> sniggering.. ... Curiously, the one which I find silly which I think
> I have only seen in US English is "manhood" which for some 
> reason makes me chuckle.
> 
> No, the words which are normally bleeped and ones at which I 
> personally take umbrage if I hear them are the f-word, the 
> c-word and the s-word.

Geoff:
Well, I only got one message - basically the one above.

So, if I might misquote Mark Twain,  reports of your obsession 
(or mine) have been greatly exaggerated.
:-)






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 14:46:19 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:46:19 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <ga621s+53g7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga627r+c8ej@eGroups.com>

Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

Potioncat:
> The use of wand in the Equus article was that author's innuendo
> cleverly (or so he thought) combining Potter with Equus.
>
> Do you remember where Hermione said "wand in a knot"? Isn't "don't
> get your knickers in a knot" British slang for "don't get so upset"?

Geoff:
Almost. It's correctly, "don't get your knickers in a twist."

Potioncat:
> **In DH, "The Seven Potters" Moody speaks to Fred who replies,
>
> "I'm George," said the twin to whom Moody was pointing. "Can't you
> even tell us apart when we're Harry?"
>
> "Sorry George--"
>
> "I'm only yanking your wand. I'm Fred really--"
>
> While it could be innuendo, clearly it isn't meant to be. "Yanking
> your wand" sounds a lot like "pulling your leg", "pushing your
> buttons" or "jerking your chain." Are those used in England?

Geoff:
Again, in addition to "pulling your leg" an increasingly used phrase 
would be "Who's rattling your cage?" or "Just rattling your cage".

Potioncat:
>I thought her several uses of wands in a phrase was similar to "cat
> among the pixies" or whatever it was Mrs. Fig said.

Geoff:
That is a Wizarding World version of "putting the cat among the pigeons".

> Potioncat:
But I really think that sometimes a wand is just a wand.

Geoff:
You mean like as in "I wandered lonely as a cloud"?
:-))






From md at exit-reality.com  Tue Sep  9 15:37:56 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:37:56 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <ga562l+ajhq@eGroups.com>
References: <009001c911cf$fadd9d60$f098d820$@com> <ga562l+ajhq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <03bc01c91292$08593900$190bab00$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geoff Bannister
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:46 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: America (The Book) was: list of books ...

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> First of all, I own and love the book.
> Second, I barely censor anything for my own kids.
> Third, I find all instances of Christ on a cross disgusting,......

Geoff:

Speaking as an evangelical Christian, although I wouldn't quite use 
your terminology, I would agree that I dislike a crucifix which is an 
opinion also held by a majority of Christians other than Catholics and 
high Anglicans because it presents the wrong view of our faith.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Personally, I prefer the "Buddy Christ" as seen in the film "Dogma" and
available for purchase at viewaskew.com and other fine, only retail outlets!

md





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 16:26:44 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:26:44 -0000
Subject: Another big birthday bash!
Message-ID: <ga6844+m67g@eGroups.com>

*pauses among a pile of streamers and uninflated balloons to listen 
to the noise outside the door*

Stop that pounding, I'm decorating as fast as I can! Sheesh, how many 
sets of hands to you think I have? What? Use magic? ...

Well, why didn't *I* think of that!

*waves a hand and watches the decorations float into place*

Wow, that was easy! And look how wonderful it looks! Thanks everyone.

Birthday honourees for the past couple weeks have been:

Aug 29 - Dee/gyspycaine - gypsycaine at yahoo.com
Sept 2 - Meg Rose - megrose_13 at yahoo.com
Sept 4 - Phil Boswell - phil_hp7 at yahoo.co.uk
Sept 7 - colebiancardi - muellem at bc.edu
Sept 7 - Melody_wood14 (Melody) - mwood005 at comcast.net and 
Sept 9 - Vinnia - vinnia_chrysshallie at yahoo.co.nz

Wow, that's quite a list. Maybe I should hold parties just a little 
more often. Yes, I know the saying 'The more, the merrier', but you 
guys don't have to bake all the cakes!

Speaking of cakes, they're all over there on the table, along with an 
assortment of sandwiches and other nibblies. The bar is open, but 
those of you still at work, please watch your consumption. We don't 
want to be responsible for drunken memos to the boss and the like!

I hope all of our honourees had lovely, magical, wonderful days that 
brought them much joy.

Happy Birthday, Dee!
Happy Birthday, Meg Rose!
Happy Birthday, Phil!
Happy Birthday, colebiancardi!
Happy Birthday, Melody!
Happy Birthday, Vinnia!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf, enjoying a rare day off




From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 17:13:18 2008
From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:13:18 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
Message-ID: <ga6are+qqdp@eGroups.com>

  Well, really it's not about the lawsuit, but, I have to say, after 
all is said and done...I'd love to read a tell-all about SVA's trials 
and tribulations regarding the entire ordeal.

  I also wonder, given the actual wording of the ruling, if the 
publishing company will consider a re-edit of said material and 
publish the Lexicon anyway?(After all, I don't believe there is 
a "readers guide" for the entire series yet.)

Doddie,
Who thinks the "tell all" would sell more than any Lexicon/reader's 
guide/encyclopedia ever would.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 17:40:53 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:40:53 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <ga5pas+3u2r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga6cf5+hkjk@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > > > > > > > 
<snip> I have a feeling that "wand" wasn't used in that context until 
> JKR, who is a bit too fond of Freudian insinuations in my opinion, 
came up with, "What's got *your* wand in a knot?" <snip>.
> 
> Potioncat:
> The use of wand in the Equus article was that author's innuendo
cleverly (or so he thought) combining Potter with Equus.
> 
> Do you remember where Hermione said "wand in a knot"? Isn't "don't
get your knickers in a knot" British slang for "don't get so upset"?

Carol again:

Oops. It seems that it was only in the Film version of GoF (the Yule
Ball scene). But JKR does similar things elsewhere, for example,
trolls comparing the size of their clubs (which is, IIRC, a comment by
the narrator). I'm quite sure that she knows exactly what she's doing
and expects it to go over the heads of the child readers but not
adults. In most cases, the speakers (unless they're the Weasley Twins)
probably intend no double entendre, but JKR, who is amused that Dan
Radcliffe will have to appear nude in the "King's Cross" scene, surely
an allusion to "Equus," seems to find such innuendo humorous.

But, yes. She does alter ordinary British sayings to fit the WW, and
in the case of Arabella Figg, the alterations are suited to a batty
old woman. (Well, old by Harry's standards, anyway. She's probably
about fifty!) In other cases, like the Uranus jokes, they're suited to
teenage boys (in the case of Ron in the DoM, under the influence of
some spell that makes him giddy). Anyway, I've felt uncomfortable on
several occasions with the implied anatomical or sexual humor in books
whose primary readers are children. Your son is just the right age to
catch some if not all of those jokes and find them funny. Me, I'm an
old prude who'd rather they weren't there. I don't even like the bogey
and vomit humor, which ostensibly appeals to slightly younger kids in
the gross-out humor stage. At least, I don't recall any flatulence
jokes. I still remember my disgust on first encountering that sort of
humor in "Lion King."

Potioncat: 
> The example I gave---my son laughing at a wand comment--was his own
13-year-old sense of humor. At that age just about anything can 
become innuendo. I went back to find it to provide canon. 
> 
> **In DH, "The Seven Potters" <snip>
> 
> "I'm only yanking your wand. I'm Fred really--"  ***
> 
> While it could be innuendo, clearly it isn't meant to be. "Yanking 
> your wand" sounds a lot like "pulling your leg", "pushing your 
> buttons" or "jerking your chain." Are those used in England? I 
> thought her several uses of wands in a phrase was similar to "cat 
> among the pixies" or whatever it was Mrs. Fig said.

Carol responds:
Oh, I think that JKR intended it, and she expected thirteen- and
fourteen-year-old boys, at least, to see it and find it funny. They're
exposed to a lot of so-called humor relating to both the male and
female anatomy. I even saw an ad for "male enlargement" on TV last
night (admittedly, it was eleven o'clock at night--the kind of thing
that routinely appears in my Yahoo spam e-mail box). I'm not talking
about ads for Viagra, which are at least tastefully done. I'm talking
about feeding the myth that masculinity is based on the size of a
man's sex organ (the "manhood" concept that Geoff was talking about).
It's as sick and sad as ten-year-old girls wanting to look like
Barbie. IMO--maybe someone here thinks all this is normal and
desirable, in which case, there's no way of reaching an agreement.

Potioncat:
> So is there a counterpart, like infer is to imply? 

Carol:
I think it's implied but the reader is free to draw the inference or
not--rather like the relatioship between the young DD and GG, which
can be read as a close intellectual friendship, a romantic friendship
(platonic love between friends of the same sex), or a
boyfriend/boyfriend relationship, depending on the reader. Not so much
as a kiss is implied, but strong feeling, love of some sort is
implied, at least on DD's side (and we know where JKR stands on this
point so the implications are put there deliberately, but *Rita
Skeeter's* insinuations can be taken with a grain of salt). So,
anyway, I think that the innuendo is deliberate on JKR's part, but the
reader can miss it, ignore it, enjoy it, or be annoyed by it depending
on his or her age and taste.
> 
> 
> Carol, I see your point, that the author can intend something, even
if the character doesn't. But it seems that would seriously impede the
flow of the plot. I mean, if she set it up for kids to go beserk over
the wording when it had nothing to do with the situation, then it's
going to change how the scene is felt.

Carol:

I don't understand your objection. Why would insinuation or innuendo
"impede the flow of the plot"? What kids is she setting up to "go
berserk"? If you mean the characters, most of the characters miss the
innuendo (unless it's on the level of the Uranus jokes). If you mean
the readers, young readers, if they catch the jokes, will merely
laugh, possibly for a rather long time (as you and I do in other
places) and go on with the story. I remember laughing for a good
minute at Fred's reference to Percy as "Weatherby" (even though I felt
sorry for Percy, it was still funny), but the laugh didn't interfere
with the story line. I doubt whether your son's laugh over "yanking
your wand" (we can imagine the image it created in his mind) took him
out of the storyline for more than the few minutes it took to get the
laugh out of his system. IMO, the jokes about body parts (or bogeys or
vomit) don't interfere with the storyline, exactly, but they don't
contribute to it, either (I was getting very tired of the Twins taking
turns demonstrating the Puking Pastilles by projectile vomiting in
OoP). I think that the double entendres serve a similar purpose. JKR
thinks they're funny (she also thinks that the Ton-Tongue Toffee
incident is funny; I don't) so she includes them to regale like-minded
readers. As for "how the scene is felt," it will certainly be felt
differently by different readers.

Potioncat: 
> Granted, JKR has placed little gems throughout the books, that the 
reader can get or not. 

Carol:
Exactly.

Potioncat:
(Other than double entendres) Given JKR's interviews about Aberforth's
goats, you could be right about the other examples. There were some
lines connected to the book Ron gave Harry---I think that was
mentioned upthread---that may have been intentional. But I really
think that sometimes a wand is just a wand.

Carol:
And that's the great thing about interpretation. We're not slaves of
the author's intention. We don't need to share her sense of humor. If
we're not fans of Freud, we can ignore all Freudian implications.
(Have you ever read a Freudian critic's views of the cave scene in
"The Hobbit"? Bilbo is returning to the womb, to be reborn and emerge
as a "man!" Or, at any rate, an adult male. Similar critiques could be
made about the HP books, almost all of which have a scene in which
Harry goes underground. But if we think Freud is nonsense--sometimes a
cave is just a cave and a wand is just a wand--we can read it that way.)

Carol, who doesn't want to spoil Potioncat's enjoyment and wishes that
her own were not diminished by an awareness of Freudian implications





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 18:32:06 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:32:06 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6are+qqdp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga6ff6+s1l1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "doddiemoemoe" 
<doddiemoemoe at ...> wrote:
>
>   Well, really it's not about the lawsuit, but, I have to say, after 
> all is said and done...I'd love to read a tell-all about SVA's trials 
> and tribulations regarding the entire ordeal.
> 
>   I also wonder, given the actual wording of the ruling, if the 
> publishing company will consider a re-edit of said material and 
> publish the Lexicon anyway?(After all, I don't believe there is 
> a "readers guide" for the entire series yet.)
> 
> Doddie,
> Who thinks the "tell all" would sell more than any Lexicon/reader's 
> guide/encyclopedia ever would.
>


Alla:

Hmm, my opinion, but no I do not think they will consider reediting and 
trying to publish. Permanent injunction is issued after all. If they 
decide to appeal, different story of course.




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 19:13:10 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 12:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6ff6+s1l1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <466613.72995.qm@web63401.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> <doddiemoemoe at ...> wrote:
> >
> >   Well, really it's not about the lawsuit, but, I
> have to say, after 
> > all is said and done...I'd love to read a tell-all
> about SVA's trials 
> > and tribulations regarding the entire ordeal.
> > 
> >   I also wonder, given the actual wording of the
> ruling, if the 
> > publishing company will consider a re-edit of said
> material and 
> > publish the Lexicon anyway?(After all, I don't
> believe there is 
> > a "readers guide" for the entire series
> yet.)
> > 
> > Doddie,
> > Who thinks the "tell all" would sell more
> than any Lexicon/reader's 
> > guide/encyclopedia ever would.
> >
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hmm, my opinion, but no I do not think they will consider
> reediting and 
> trying to publish. Permanent injunction is issued after
> all. If they 
> decide to appeal, different story of course.
> 
Sheryll:

I didn't see anything in the ruling that prohibits them from appealing and presenting a revised edition of the Lexicon book. Of course, they'd have to remove the reference to the schoolbooks and change the instances where they've used JKR's own words to describe the entries. Other than that, doesn't the conclusion say that this type of work is permissible?

Sheryll


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From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 19:18:40 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:18:40 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <466613.72995.qm@web63401.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ga6i6g+sro8@eGroups.com>

> Sheryll:
> 
> I didn't see anything in the ruling that prohibits them from 
appealing and presenting a revised edition of the Lexicon book. Of 
course, they'd have to remove the reference to the schoolbooks and 
change the instances where they've used JKR's own words to describe 
the entries. Other than that, doesn't the conclusion say that this 
type of work is permissible?
> 


Alla:

Nothing prevents them from appealing definitely, but what my 
understanding they cannot do is to go over the permanent injunction, 
which is the remedy in equity and just say oh yes, we removed 
offensive references, we are not taking as much of protected creative 
expression and now the book is ready for publication.

They have to IMO if they decide to do so appeal first.

Judge said this type of guides is permissive, but this particular 
book is not, not this particular book can be okay if revised.

JMO and I can be wrong of course.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 20:10:29 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:10:29 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6are+qqdp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga6l7l+tib5@eGroups.com>

---  "doddiemoemoe" <doddiemoemoe at ...> wrote:
>
>   Well, really it's not about the lawsuit, but, I have to say,
> after all is said and done...I'd love to read a tell-all about
> SVA's trials and tribulations regarding the entire ordeal.
> 
>   I also wonder, given the actual wording of the ruling, if
> the publishing company will consider a re-edit of said material
> and publish the Lexicon anyway?(After all, I don't believe there
> is  a "readers guide" for the entire series yet.)
> 
> Doddie,
> Who thinks the "tell all" would sell more than 
> any Lexicon/reader's guide/encyclopedia ever would.
>

bboyminn:

I've very sympathetic to Steve Vander Ark, I think he was pulled
into a deal that assured him his actions were legal. Then when
the lawsuit began, he was trapped by a signed contract with
confidentiality clauses, that prevented him from withdrawing 
the book or speaking his mind. 

Next, while it seemed reasonable that this is how it would all
turn out. I'm still not sure I agree with the ruling. There
are only so many reasonable ways to describe something before
the definition become so obtuse as to lose all meaning at all.

The Judge quoted JKR and Steve's description of a Fireball 
Dragon. It is called a 'fireball' because it shoots 
mushroom shaped balls of fire. Well, how many ways are there
to make that statement in a clear and concise manner? Is
anyone defining a Fireball Dragon forbidden from using the
word 'mushroom' or 'ball' or 'fire'?

I though Steve did the best he could, the best anyone could,
to give clear definitions that had relevance to the books
without directly quoting JKR. But, really, there is a limit.
We have limited definitions of 'things', and it is hard to 
restate those limited definitions without using similar 
words. The alternative is to use word that are so obscure
and convoluted, that the relevance to the books and the 
underlying meaning are lost.

I still hold Steve Vander Ark in high regard, and am 
disappointed that certain segments of the fan community have
shunned him.

Just my opinion.

Steve/bboyminn




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep  9 20:27:44 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:27:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6l7l+tib5@eGroups.com>
References: <ga6are+qqdp@eGroups.com> <ga6l7l+tib5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAB751A7F8C3474CB68803EB478E2864@FRODO>

[Steve B]:
| I still hold Steve Vander Ark in high regard, and am 
| disappointed that certain segments of the fan community have
| shunned him.
| 
| Just my opinion.
| 
| Steve/bboyminn

[Lee]:
HERE! HERE!  Right on, Steve. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Sep  9 20:52:49 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:52:49 -0000
Subject: Lexicon? wasRe: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <CAB751A7F8C3474CB68803EB478E2864@FRODO>
Message-ID: <ga6nn1+fdsm@eGroups.com>


> [Steve B]:
> | I still hold Steve Vander Ark in high regard, and am 
> | disappointed that certain segments of the fan community have
> | shunned him.
> | 
> | Just my opinion.
> | 
> | Steve/bboyminn
> 
> [Lee]:
> HERE! HERE!  Right on, Steve. :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee :-)
>
Potioncat:
Also raising a glass to Steve. 

BTW, can someone re-post the url for the Lexicon? You can't get there 
from the Main HPfGU site. (Can that be fixed?)





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 21:16:22 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6i6g+sro8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <404258.91997.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> > Sheryll:
> > 
> > I didn't see anything in the ruling that prohibits
> them from 
> appealing and presenting a revised edition of the Lexicon
> book. Of 
> course, they'd have to remove the reference to the
> schoolbooks and 
> change the instances where they've used JKR's own
> words to describe 
> the entries. Other than that, doesn't the conclusion
> say that this 
> type of work is permissible?
> > 
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Nothing prevents them from appealing definitely, but what
> my 
> understanding they cannot do is to go over the permanent
> injunction, 
> which is the remedy in equity and just say oh yes, we
> removed 
> offensive references, we are not taking as much of
> protected creative 
> expression and now the book is ready for publication.
> 
> They have to IMO if they decide to do so appeal first.
> 
> Judge said this type of guides is permissive, but this
> particular 
> book is not, not this particular book can be okay if
> revised.
> 
> JMO and I can be wrong of course.
> 
Sheryll:

I'm pretty sure you're more educated about the law than I am, that's for sure! 

Okay, so they can't just come back with a revised book and try to publish. But they can revise and try to appeal. Would that be correct?

Sheryll


      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.



From md at exit-reality.com  Tue Sep  9 21:57:36 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:57:36 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <404258.91997.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <ga6i6g+sro8@eGroups.com> <404258.91997.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <015801c912c7$11e8ef80$35bace80$@com>

The book that was going to press was stopped, and it was because the author
had not written most of the content, it was J.K. Rowling's words.

The idea of the book is not an issue, you can write about Harry Potter books
to your heart's content and publish away, but it has to be your own words,
fair-use will only allow for so much.

So yeah, he could actually write the book and publish it without going
through the courts. After all, the judge didn't uphold the Rowling had sole
right to write about the HP world, only that the Lexicon book too heavily
relied on quotes from the books.

md

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sheryll Townsend
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:16 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: About the lawsuit...

> > Sheryll:
> > 
> > I didn't see anything in the ruling that prohibits
> them from 
> appealing and presenting a revised edition of the Lexicon
> book. Of 
> course, they'd have to remove the reference to the
> schoolbooks and 
> change the instances where they've used JKR's own
> words to describe 
> the entries. Other than that, doesn't the conclusion
> say that this 
> type of work is permissible?
> > 
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Nothing prevents them from appealing definitely, but what
> my 
> understanding they cannot do is to go over the permanent
> injunction, 
> which is the remedy in equity and just say oh yes, we
> removed 
> offensive references, we are not taking as much of
> protected creative 
> expression and now the book is ready for publication.
> 
> They have to IMO if they decide to do so appeal first.
> 
> Judge said this type of guides is permissive, but this
> particular 
> book is not, not this particular book can be okay if
> revised.
> 
> JMO and I can be wrong of course.
> 
Sheryll:

I'm pretty sure you're more educated about the law than I am, that's for
sure! 

Okay, so they can't just come back with a revised book and try to publish.
But they can revise and try to appeal. Would that be correct?

Sheryll


      __________________________________________________________________
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favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

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From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 22:05:10 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:05:10 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <404258.91997.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ga6rum+s7ar@eGroups.com>

> Sheryll:
> 
> I'm pretty sure you're more educated about the law than I am, 
that's for sure! 
> 
> Okay, so they can't just come back with a revised book and try to 
publish. But they can revise and try to appeal. Would that be correct?


Alla:


I believe that it is not revise and appeal, it is appeal first and if 
you win, then do whatever with the book.

I mean, what I am trying to say is that if you receive unfavorable 
decision, you cannot do anything that goes against the decision 
unless you win an appeal, it is indeed very basic staff and that I 
know.

If they win an appeal, they do not need to revise anything, they can 
just publish this book, unless the other side will appeal in turn to 
higher court and the wheels go round and round.

Does it make sense?






From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 22:07:28 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:07:28 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <015801c912c7$11e8ef80$35bace80$@com>
Message-ID: <ga6s30+odai@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cabal" <md at ...> wrote:
>
> The book that was going to press was stopped, and it was because 
the author
> had not written most of the content, it was J.K. Rowling's words.
> 
> The idea of the book is not an issue, you can write about Harry 
Potter books
> to your heart's content and publish away, but it has to be your own 
words,
> fair-use will only allow for so much.
> 
> So yeah, he could actually write the book and publish it without 
going
> through the courts. After all, the judge didn't uphold the Rowling 
had sole
> right to write about the HP world, only that the Lexicon book too 
heavily
> relied on quotes from the books.
> 


Alla:

Absolutely, he can write **different book**, I agree without going 
through courts, different book about HP.

But how different will be different, that is an interesting question.

I mean judge is not stupid and if plaintiffs come to court again and 
say that defendants are in violation of the injunction since this 
book is basically same stuff, I think it will all depend on the 
content.

JMO.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 22:13:32 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:13:32 -0000
Subject: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
In-Reply-To: <03bc01c91292$08593900$190bab00$@com>
Message-ID: <ga6sec+aqsj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cabal" <md at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geoff Bannister
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:46 AM
> To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: America (The Book) was: list of books ...
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md@> wrote:
> 
> > First of all, I own and love the book.
> > Second, I barely censor anything for my own kids.
> > Third, I find all instances of Christ on a cross disgusting,......
> 
> Geoff:
> 
> Speaking as an evangelical Christian, although I wouldn't quite use 
> your terminology, I would agree that I dislike a crucifix which is an 
> opinion also held by a majority of Christians other than Catholics and 
> high Anglicans because it presents the wrong view of our faith.

md:
> Personally, I prefer the "Buddy Christ" as seen in the film "Dogma" and
> available for purchase at viewaskew.com and other fine, only retail outlets!

Geoff:
Doubt whether he'd fit into first century Galilee. The only thing which I 
noticed about the trailer - apart from the fact that I couldn't hear the 
dialogue over the music - was the presence of Alan Rickman; took 
me a few seconds to recognise him!




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 22:25:12 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6rum+s7ar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <719379.57261.qm@web63407.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> 
> Alla:
> 
> 
> I believe that it is not revise and appeal, it is appeal
> first and if 
> you win, then do whatever with the book.
> 
> I mean, what I am trying to say is that if you receive
> unfavorable 
> decision, you cannot do anything that goes against the
> decision 
> unless you win an appeal, it is indeed very basic staff and
> that I 
> know.
> 
> If they win an appeal, they do not need to revise anything,
> they can 
> just publish this book, unless the other side will appeal
> in turn to 
> higher court and the wheels go round and round.
> 
> Does it make sense?
> 
> 
Sheryll:

Makes perfect sense. I appreciate the clarification!

Sheryll


      __________________________________________________________________
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From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 22:25:48 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:25:48 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <ga6cf5+hkjk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga6t5c+jajm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
 
Carol:
>  I'm talking about feeding the myth that masculinity is based on the size 
> of a man's sex organ (the "manhood" concept that Geoff was talking about).

Geoff:
You've done it again - missed the point of what I said.! 

My comment had nothing to do with concept of penis size. What I wrote was 
merely that "manhood" is one euphonism I've seen for male equipment which, 
for some reason, made me chuckle. It merely goes alongside other terms for 
which I observed  "most of the euphemisms for a gentleman's equipment 
are fairly harmless ones; they wouldn't make me blush and I'm not one for 
swearing."




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep  9 23:34:17 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:34:17 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Lexicon? wasRe: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6nn1+fdsm@eGroups.com>
References: <CAB751A7F8C3474CB68803EB478E2864@FRODO> <ga6nn1+fdsm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <164C3AE963274ED4B9493B65B37A0368@FRODO>

| Potioncat:
| Also raising a glass to Steve. 
| 
| BTW, can someone re-post the url for the Lexicon? You can't get there 
| from the Main HPfGU site. (Can that be fixed?)

[Lee]:
This should get you there:

http://hp-lexicon.org

Haven't checked, so let us know if that still works.

Cheers,

Lee
(With ice pack on face to keep painful eye quiet!)




From dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 23:44:50 2008
From: dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk (Tim Regan)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:44:50 -0000
Subject: Lexicon URL
In-Reply-To: <ga6nn1+fdsm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga71pi+f1su@eGroups.com>

Hi All,
Potioncat asked
>>> BTW, can someone re-post the url for the Lexicon? You can't get 
there from the Main HPfGU site. <<<

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/ 

I think it's gone. I believe it was hosted by the people who do TLC, 
and they didn't want to change anything during the trial. Now the 
trial is over I guess they are free to cease hosting.

You could try The Wayback Machine 
http://web.archive.org/web/20071221054930/http://www.hp-lexicon.org/ 
but it is hit and miss.

Otherwise we could wait to see if Steve has plans to rehost it.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.

PS Steve BB. SVA came along to Accio 2008, and though most of the 
fandom has turned against him it was heartwarming to see how well he 
was received. I couldn't make his talk but by all accounts it was 
wonderfully civilised: no-one asked trial related questions but 
enthusiasticaly discussed his upcoming projects.




From dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 23:57:04 2008
From: dumbledad at yahoo.co.uk (Tim Regan)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:57:04 -0000
Subject: Lexicon URL
In-Reply-To: <ga71pi+f1su@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga72gg+js8n@eGroups.com>

I said:
>>> http://www.hp-lexicon.org/ I think it's gone <<<

I think I was wrong there, only the name is changed the site still 
seems to be up at http://69.61.53.28/ 

Cheers,

Dumbledad. 




From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 02:04:58 2008
From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:04:58 -0000
Subject: About the lawsuit...
In-Reply-To: <ga6l7l+tib5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga7a0a+rri1@eGroups.com>

Bboy,

  I'm sympathetic to SVA too. I don't agree with the ruling either 
and found myself thinking in circles with the Fireball Dragon 
description as well.

  I just think with writing the book, the court battle, the shunning 
by so many peers/fans, his own personal story would be very 
interesting to read.

  I look forward to reading his next book. (which hopefully will be 
published) It's supposed to be about the "real life"/real world 
sites tied to the Potter Series.

Doddie

> bboyminn:
> 
> I've very sympathetic to Steve Vander Ark, I think he was pulled
> into a deal that assured him his actions were legal. Then when
> the lawsuit began, he was trapped by a signed contract with
> confidentiality clauses, that prevented him from withdrawing 
> the book or speaking his mind. 
> 
> Next, while it seemed reasonable that this is how it would all
> turn out. I'm still not sure I agree with the ruling. There
> are only so many reasonable ways to describe something before
> the definition become so obtuse as to lose all meaning at all.
> 
> The Judge quoted JKR and Steve's description of a Fireball 
> Dragon. It is called a 'fireball' because it shoots 
> mushroom shaped balls of fire. Well, how many ways are there
> to make that statement in a clear and concise manner? Is
> anyone defining a Fireball Dragon forbidden from using the
> word 'mushroom' or 'ball' or 'fire'?
> 
> I though Steve did the best he could, the best anyone could,
> to give clear definitions that had relevance to the books
> without directly quoting JKR. But, really, there is a limit.
> We have limited definitions of 'things', and it is hard to 
> restate those limited definitions without using similar 
> words. The alternative is to use word that are so obscure
> and convoluted, that the relevance to the books and the 
> underlying meaning are lost.
> 
> I still hold Steve Vander Ark in high regard, and am 
> disappointed that certain segments of the fan community have
> shunned him.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
>





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 07:32:24 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:32:24 -0000
Subject: Lexicon? Now... http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html
In-Reply-To: <164C3AE963274ED4B9493B65B37A0368@FRODO>
Message-ID: <ga7t68+ssj0@eGroups.com>

---  "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> | Potioncat:
> | Also raising a glass to Steve. 
> | 
> | BTW, can someone re-post the url for the Lexicon? You can't get there 
> | from the Main HPfGU site. (Can that be fixed?)
> 
> [Lee]:
> This should get you there:
> 
> http://hp-lexicon.org
> 
> Haven't checked, so let us know if that still works.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee

bboyminn;

the Lexicon has moved to a new domain and for the most part, 
it seems to be working. Though a few links still need to be
reprogrammed.

http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html

I can understand the need to change hosts, but I'm not sure
why he changed domain names. Surely he owned the HP-Lexicon.org
domain name.

Still, the new site seems to be working.

steve/bluewizard




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Wed Sep 10 15:39:28 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:39:28 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Lexicon? Now... http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html
In-Reply-To: <ga7t68+ssj0@eGroups.com>
References: <164C3AE963274ED4B9493B65B37A0368@FRODO> <ga7t68+ssj0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0809100839h7289d4c4r8954f265e89f762c@mail.gmail.com>

bboyminn;
> the Lexicon has moved to a new domain and for the most part,
> it seems to be working. Though a few links still need to be
> reprogrammed.


Not true.  Pulled the following from the update blog at the Lexicon:
------
And we're back?
September 5, 2008
Posted by Steve at 11:18 am

As you might have noticed, the Lexicon has had some technical problems
over the past week or so. We're in the process of updating and
upgrading everything. Part of the process involved transferring some
domains around, and along the way an error resulted in the
www.hp-lexicon.info domain losing its DNS settings. We can't reset
them until the transfer is complete. So in the meantime, you can
access the site at www.hplex.org and www.hplex.info. I'm so sorry for
the inconvenience.
------
Looks like he's anticipating the .com address to be working within the
next week or two, but it's down for the mean time.  Website problems,
you gotta love them.

~Ali



From md at exit-reality.com  Wed Sep 10 17:04:54 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:04:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Lexicon? Now... http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0809100839h7289d4c4r8954f265e89f762c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <164C3AE963274ED4B9493B65B37A0368@FRODO> <ga7t68+ssj0@eGroups.com> <b6e131bf0809100839h7289d4c4r8954f265e89f762c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010a01c91367$58e8a290$0ab9e7b0$@com>


-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P. Alexis Nguyen
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:39 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Lexicon? Now...
http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html

bboyminn;
> the Lexicon has moved to a new domain and for the most part,
> it seems to be working. Though a few links still need to be
> reprogrammed.


Not true.  Pulled the following from the update blog at the Lexicon:
------ 

Not that it really matters but it is true from the perspective that the site
exist at differ URL's, including the .info site. Actually went there for a
moment out of curiosity following the ruling. The site is there and working.
Nothing stated was incorrect, just not all the information. 

md




From utkari02 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 13:11:23 2008
From: utkari02 at yahoo.com (Kari)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:11:23 -0000
Subject: Lexicon? Now... http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html
In-Reply-To: <ga7t68+ssj0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ga8h1r+acd2@eGroups.com>


> bboyminn;
>
> the Lexicon has moved to a new domain and for the most part,
> it seems to be working. Though a few links still need to be
> reprogrammed.
>
> http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html
>
> I can understand the need to change hosts, but I'm not sure
> why he changed domain names. Surely he owned the HP-Lexicon.org
> domain name.
>
> Still, the new site seems to be working.
>
> steve/bluewizard

Kari adds:

I believe TLC owns the domain name.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 03:49:59 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 03:49:59 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <ga6t5c+jajm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gacot7+oek4@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> >  I'm talking about feeding the myth that masculinity is based on
the size  of a man's sex organ (the "manhood" concept that Geoff was
talking about).
> 
> Geoff:
> You've done it again - missed the point of what I said.! 
> 
> My comment had nothing to do with concept of penis size. What I
wrote was merely that "manhood" is one euphonism I've seen for male
equipment which, for some reason, made me chuckle. It merely goes
alongside other terms for which I observed  "most of the euphemisms
for a gentleman's equipment are fairly harmless ones; they wouldn't
make me blush and I'm not one for swearing."
>
Carol responds:
Honestly, Geoff, I feel as if we live on different planets! You're
misreading what I said, too. I'm not saying that you subscribe to that
concept, only that the euphemism "manhood" (which you mentioned) has
the implications that I was talking about. You find it amusing; I find
it sad that some people (for example, the authors of certain sultry
romance novels that I've edited) seem to associate the size of a man's
sex organ with his masculinity, as neatly summed up in that particular
euphemism. I was in no way suggesting that you hold that particular view.

I suppose I should have said "the 'manhood' euphemism that Geoff
mentioned."

Carol, who was making her own point, not responding to Geoff's post
except with regard to the euphemism "manhood" and its implications




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 04:24:03 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 04:24:03 -0000
Subject: Lexicon? Now... http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0809100839h7289d4c4r8954f265e89f762c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gacqt3+hu75@eGroups.com>

Ali wrote:
> <snip quote>
> Looks like he's anticipating the .com address to be working within
the next week or two, but it's down for the mean time.  Website
problems, you gotta love them.

Carol responds:

All I know is that the old http://hp-lexicon.org/ address isn't
working at the moment. It takes you to some stupid listing of
"sponsored listings." (I thought at first that the Lexicon had been
taken down because Steve had lost or anticipated losing the lawsuit!)

However, you can get to the Lexicon using the alternate URLs given by
members of this group, http://69.61.53.28/ and
http://www.hp-lexicon.info/index-2.html (Just bookmark them and you
won't have to remember them.) You can also get there from the home
page of HPfGu (Potioncat's method), but instead of clicking the Enter
button, which will take you to "the Lexicon has moved" and from there
to the "sponsored listings," click the blue "Text Menu" link beneath
the button. That will take you to (surprise) the menu page in text
format. Click any of those links and you're in a not-quite text-only
version of the Lexicon, minus a lot of fancy formatting but still usable.

If anyone would actually prefer a Text Only version of the Lexicon,
you can get to that page directly with this link:

http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/index-2-text.html

Carol, who loves website problems almost as much as she loves problems
with her own computer (tongue firmly in cheek and knocking on wood
that I haven't jinxed myself!)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 06:41:13 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 06:41:13 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <gacot7+oek4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gad2u9+g2d7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Carol:
> Honestly, Geoff, I feel as if we live on different planets! You're
> misreading what I said, too. I'm not saying that you subscribe to that
> concept, only that the euphemism "manhood" (which you mentioned) has
> the implications that I was talking about. You find it amusing; I find
> it sad that some people (for example, the authors of certain sultry
> romance novels that I've edited) seem to associate the size of a man's
> sex organ with his masculinity, as neatly summed up in that particular
> euphemism. I was in no way suggesting that you hold that particular view.

Geoff:
It's not that we live on different planets - we just read different books 
and move in different circles.

Perhaps the sultry romance novels are in the Mills and Boon category 
which are definitely NOT on the reading list of males in the UK; discussion 
among guys I know has rarely considered the size of male organs since 
I was in my teens.




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 11:25:56 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 04:25:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slightly belated birthday wishes X 2!
Message-ID: <747966.41688.qm@web63403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

*runs around in pyjamas and slippers, dragging a large box of decorations and flinging streamers every which-way*

Yes, I know I'm not dressed yet. Sorry, I fell asleep on the couch last night and totally forgot to bake cakes!

Yesterday's birthday honourees, who probably think I forgot all about them, were illyana delorean and zgirnius. Somewhat belated birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to illyana at: illyanadmc at thegiant.org or to zgirnius at zgirnius at yahoo.com

Okay, breakfast goodies are on the tables to the left, cakes on the table to the right. Yes, there's cake for breakfast. After all, this is a birthday party! Did you really think I'd make our honourees forego cake just because it's a morning party? We will, however, have to wait a few hours before the fizzy drinks and such are available. Except for those in appropriate time zones. In other words, no alcohol at the crack of dawn. At least wait until noon. <vbg>

I hope you both had marvelous days yesterday, filled with magic, the company of family and good friends, and lots of lovely presents.

Happy Birthday, illyana!
Happy Birthday, zgirnius!

Sheryll the sleepy Birthday Elf


      __________________________________________________________________
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 19:29:27 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:29:27 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
Message-ID: <gaefun+5gju@eGroups.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/palin_librarian

Alla:

Please beware, source is exactly what it says - news article on Yahoo 
home page, nothing more, nothing less. If something is incorrect in 
that article, I would not know and I did not cross check any other 
sources today.






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 20:14:43 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:14:43 -0000
Subject: Doube Entendres (wasRe: Tom Felton: Off Color Word Censored, ...But What
In-Reply-To: <gad2u9+g2d7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaeijj+c9ll@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
> It's not that we live on different planets - we just read different
books and move in different circles.
> 
> Perhaps the sultry romance novels are in the Mills and Boon category
which are definitely NOT on the reading list of males in the UK;
discussion among guys I know has rarely considered the size of male
organs since I was in my teens.
>
Carol:
Ah. That makes sense. Perhaps you also don't get the kind of spam that
I receive in my Yahoo e-mail (deleted unread, of course), and I was
disturbed to see a TV commercial to the same effect on one of the
movie channels the other night. (I was watching "Alexander" to see if
there was any historical truth in it. Wish I hadn't.) Please note that
I don't read sultry romances by choice. In this economy, I edit
whatever I'm assigned (short of actual porn). I'm trying to find a
company to work with that will offer me more enjoyable and more
professional manuscripts at a higher rate per page. Meantime, I get
novels in which the black heroine strives to get her husband back by
having her "European" figure surgically enhanced, not only her breasts
but her backside enlarged for his pleasure. Ugh! The antithesis of
bulimia and anorexia in white heroines who aren't "skinny" enough.
Anyway, it's enough to make me wish I'd gone into--I don't
know--engineering, maybe? Not that I have any aptitude for that field,
but I can't believe the things I read these days. (Apropos of nothing,
I came across a blog today that blamed *Israel* for 9/11. As if it
weren't absurd enough to blame the U.S. government for "bombing" its
own people.)

Carol, wishing for an editing project about Australopithecines 




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 20:32:13 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:32:13 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <gaefun+5gju@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaejkd+9vpq@eGroups.com>

Alla wrote:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/palin_librarian
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Please beware, source is exactly what it says - news article on
Yahoo home page, nothing more, nothing less. If something is incorrect
in  that article, I would not know and I did not cross check any other
 sources today.
>
Carol responds:

Since the writer is a reporter for the Associated Press, I'm pretty
sure that it's as reliable as journalism gets. At least, it's not a
hoax giving us a list of all the books ever banned in the U.S.! The
page contains a number of links to other stories about Palin,
including snippets from her interview with Charles Gibson. I think
that's the best way to determine where Palin stands. Look at each
author's credentials and the newspaper or agency from which each
article came. If it's the National Inquirer, run the other way! If
it's a blogger, ignore it. If it's a national news magazine or
newspaper, there may be a slight liberal or conservative bias, but it
will be generally reliable. AP is probably the most objective source,
at least their mission is to provide reliable, unbiased news coverage.

http://www.ap.org/pages/about/about.html

In short, just because this article appeared on Yahoo doesn't mean it
originated there.

Carol, who once wanted to be a journalist but hated interviewing people!




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 21:22:49 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:22:49 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <gaejkd+9vpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaemj9+103l8@eGroups.com>

> Carol responds:
> 
> Since the writer is a reporter for the Associated Press, I'm pretty
> sure that it's as reliable as journalism gets. At least, it's not a
> hoax giving us a list of all the books ever banned in the U.S.! The
> page contains a number of links to other stories about Palin,
> including snippets from her interview with Charles Gibson. I think
> that's the best way to determine where Palin stands. Look at each
> author's credentials and the newspaper or agency from which each
> article came. If it's the National Inquirer, run the other way! If
> it's a blogger, ignore it. If it's a national news magazine or
> newspaper, there may be a slight liberal or conservative bias, but 
it
> will be generally reliable. AP is probably the most objective 
source,
> at least their mission is to provide reliable, unbiased news 
coverage.
> 
> http://www.ap.org/pages/about/about.html
> 
> In short, just because this article appeared on Yahoo doesn't mean 
it
> originated there.
> 
> Carol, who once wanted to be a journalist but hated interviewing 
people!
>


Alla:

Well, yes, Enquirer is not the way to go LOL, but I am just thinking 
that if New york times can print articles sometimes with false 
information in it, I mean without writer properly checking the 
sources, etc, then anybody on the Internet can, even if it is a 
reliable press agency.

Very funny - I wanted to be journalist too, I so wanted it. I could 
not do it (in Russian of course) because even when perestroyka 
started that road was closed for jews period, the college was way too 
prestigious.




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 22:23:13 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:23:13 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <gaejkd+9vpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaeq4h+5crb@eGroups.com>


> Carol responds:
> Look at each
> author's credentials and the newspaper or agency from which each
> article came. If it's the National Inquirer, run the other way! 

Kemper:
I don't know... they were spot on with Edwards' affair when 
more 'legit' newsources were poopooing the idea.
I hope they look into Palin as well (I'm sure they checked Obama, 
Biden, and McCain a while ago).

Kemper, at a computer while afk... is that possible?  is there an 
implied 'm' for 'my' between the 'f' and 'k'?  I will go ahead and 
infer one whether it's implied or not.




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Sep 12 23:47:12 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:47:12 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <gaejkd+9vpq@eGroups.com>
References: <gaefun+5gju@eGroups.com> <gaejkd+9vpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <032401c91531$e0f58f60$a2e0ae20$@com>

CNN was discussing this morning and said the article was in the NYT.

md

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 4:32 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Palin and book banning again

Alla wrote:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/palin_librarian
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Please beware, source is exactly what it says - news article on
Yahoo home page, nothing more, nothing less. If something is incorrect
in  that article, I would not know and I did not cross check any other
 sources today.
>
Carol responds:

Since the writer is a reporter for the Associated Press, I'm pretty
sure that it's as reliable as journalism gets. At least, it's not a
hoax giving us a list of all the books ever banned in the U.S.! The
page contains a number of links to other stories about Palin,
including snippets from her interview with Charles Gibson. I think
that's the best way to determine where Palin stands. Look at each
author's credentials and the newspaper or agency from which each
article came. If it's the National Inquirer, run the other way! If
it's a blogger, ignore it. If it's a national news magazine or
newspaper, there may be a slight liberal or conservative bias, but it
will be generally reliable. AP is probably the most objective source,
at least their mission is to provide reliable, unbiased news coverage.

http://www.ap.org/pages/about/about.html

In short, just because this article appeared on Yahoo doesn't mean it
originated there.

Carol, who once wanted to be a journalist but hated interviewing people!


------------------------------------

________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them!
http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
Yahoo! Groups Links







From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Sep 13 00:09:47 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:09:47 -0400
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
Message-ID: <EE2F759D48E64C689406EAE59CBEC2A6@FRODO>

Okay guys and gals,

I've got a sched for eye surgery on Monday and can't wait as I have been in
non-stop distress for about a month and painkillers aren't helping.

I ran into problems after undergoing the pre-op stuff last week; the doctor
I saw this past Wednesday for clearance found my blood pressure to be too
high and pulse too fast.  I informed her that I was stressed to the max with
all the pain and wasn't surprised my BP was hitting the ceiling.  Well, doc
decided that since she also found some "non-specific changes" in my EKG, she
wanted an echo cardiogram which I had done yesterday.  She also slapped me
on Toporol (SP?) for lowering my pressure.  Fortunately, the echo was fine;
she told me that when she saw me today.

She also noticed an elevation of white cells so I asked her about a
preventative antibiotic.  Suffice it to say she gave me a super-dose stuff
to take for the next three days.

Just send me all the prayers and good thoughts you can, good people, as I
truly gotta have this surgery on Monday and want no ill effects.  Anyone
wanting specifics feel free to haunt me off list.  It's a most unusual
problem. :-)

Thanks for the shoulders to cry on. ;)

Cheers,

Lee ;)
(Too much pain to give a real smile.)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep 13 06:34:22 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:34:22 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <EE2F759D48E64C689406EAE59CBEC2A6@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gafmte+kr7o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:
Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)"
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:

Lee:
> Just send me all the prayers and good thoughts you can, good people, as I
> truly gotta have this surgery on Monday and want no ill effects. Anyone
> wanting specifics feel free to haunt me off list. It's a most unusual
> problem. :-)
>
> Thanks for the shoulders to cry on. ;)

Geoff:
May I offer:
"The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face shine
upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face towards
you and give you peace."

(Numbers 6:26)

Prayers will be offered.




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 13 13:14:25 2008
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:14:25 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <EE2F759D48E64C689406EAE59CBEC2A6@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gagebh+6sa9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing 
Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> Okay guys and gals,
> 
> I've got a sched for eye surgery on Monday and can't wait as I have 
been in
> non-stop distress for about a month and painkillers aren't helping.
>

Annemehr:

Oh, my.  I certainly hope everything goes well for you on Monday!

And, don't forget to replenish those good bacteria when you're off the 
antibiotics -- with acidophilus milk, and live culture yogurt, and such.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 14 04:00:35 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:00:35 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <gaejkd+9vpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gai293+61u6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...>
wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37692>: 

> At least, it's not a
> hoax giving us a list of all the books ever banned in the U.S.! 

The original problem list is not a list of all the books ever banned
in the US, because it does not include Ulysses, which won a lawsuit to
be unbanned.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 14 04:02:45 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:02:45 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <EE2F759D48E64C689406EAE59CBEC2A6@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gai2d5+phue@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The
Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> Okay guys and gals,
> 
> I've got a sched for eye surgery on Monday and can't wait as I have
> been in
> non-stop distress for about a month and painkillers aren't helping.

Oh, you've been brave to have restrained yourself from complaining
about it on list. As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and complain on
list if that makes you feel better. I join with all listies in sending
good wishes for the success of your operation.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 14 04:21:39 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:21:39 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gai2d5+phue@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gai3gj+qp8k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" 
<catlady at ...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Oh, you've been brave to have restrained yourself from complaining
> about it on list. As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and complain on
> list if that makes you feel better. I join with all listies in sending
> good wishes for the success of your operation.


Alla:

Oh yes, me too Lee, me too. Sending good thoughts your way.





From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 14 06:15:13 2008
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:15:13 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gai3gj+qp8k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaia5h+655s@eGroups.com>

> Catlady:
> I join with all listies in sending good wishes for the success 
> of your operation.

> Alla:
> Oh yes, me too Lee, me too. Sending good thoughts your way.

Goddlefrood:

I hear these medical johnnies know what they're doing these days. 
Good luck with the operation Lee.

BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 14 06:24:10 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:24:10 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gaia5h+655s@eGroups.com>
References: <gai3gj+qp8k@eGroups.com> <gaia5h+655s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <7C44CF3546E04821A7E582FFD7C89D1A@FRODO>

 

| -----Original Message-----
| From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
| [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Goddlefrood
| Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 02:15
| To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
| Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
| 
| > Catlady:
| > I join with all listies in sending good wishes for the success 
| > of your operation.
| 
| > Alla:
| > Oh yes, me too Lee, me too. Sending good thoughts your way.
| 
| Goddlefrood:
| BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.

[Lee]:

Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)

Lee :-)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 14 06:33:53 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:33:53 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <7C44CF3546E04821A7E582FFD7C89D1A@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gaib8h+i3hh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:

> | Goddlefrood:
> | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.
> 
> [Lee]:
> 
> Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)
> 
> Lee :-)

Geoff:
He's lost me too....
:-(




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 14 06:38:11 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:38:11 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gai3gj+qp8k@eGroups.com>
References: <gai2d5+phue@eGroups.com> <gai3gj+qp8k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <544CF10EAB13463A9D3F6CE1BAB7DA78@FRODO>

| <catlady at ...> wrote:
| <SNIP>
| > Oh, you've been brave to have restrained yourself from complaining
| > about it on list. As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and complain on
| > list if that makes you feel better. I join with all listies 
| in sending
| > good wishes for the success of your operation.
| 
| 
| Alla:
| 
| Oh yes, me too Lee, me too. Sending good thoughts your way.

[Lee]:

Ah--tankya! Tankya! :-)

Figure I'll just give you all the general idea of what's happening.

Unlike regular cataract surgery, my lense is literally detached and floating
free within my eye, banging up against the cornea, creating a lot of pain
and inflammation.  No way to reattach it, either, as the moorings have
deteriorated to nothing.  So, on Monday, this free-floating missile has got
to be removed.  See, told y'all it was a most unusual condition and I'm the
first surgery of this type my surgeon has ever done.  It will probably take
close to an hour, give or take.

My biggest problem right now is my blood pressure due to stress.  Of course,
that's gonna worry the surgeons and all that stuff, so, not only am I
grateful for positive thoughts and prayers, but anyone know any food that is
good at lowering pressure besides the great "anti-vampire" substance? :-)

Gonna sign for now, but will write and let y'all know I survived. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 14 06:40:51 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:40:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gaib8h+i3hh@eGroups.com>
References: <7C44CF3546E04821A7E582FFD7C89D1A@FRODO> <gaib8h+i3hh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <123D849B06F94EDF807DAD4F2D6F6CFF@FRODO>

| > | Goddlefrood:
| > | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.
| > 
| > [Lee]:
| > 
| > Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)
| > 
| > Lee :-)
| 
| Geoff:
| He's lost me too....

[Lee]:
<Sigh>
Goodie!  Makes me feel better to not be the only lost one.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 14 06:41:58 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:41:58 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <7C44CF3546E04821A7E582FFD7C89D1A@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gaibnm+7tsq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The
Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> | Goddlefrood:
> | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.
> 
> [Lee]:
> Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)\

>From context, surely BoBL is Best of British Luck and BoAL is Best of
American Luck. How did such phrases come into existence?




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 14 07:18:48 2008
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:18:48 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gaibnm+7tsq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaidso+9lpv@eGroups.com>

> > | Goddlefrood:
> > | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.

> > [Lee]:
> > Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)\

> Catlady:
> From context, surely BoBL is Best of British Luck and BoAL is 
> Best of American Luck. How did such phrases come into existence?

Goddlefrood:

Take ten points for the house of your choice. May I refer you to 
this:

http://www.effingpot.com/slang.shtml

for a run down of several slang terms, including Best of British. 
And this:

http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/sayingsb.htm

Neither of which help a great deal with the origin. That latter 
one suggests it came about during WWII, and was originally meant 
ironically. It was something that we all used to write on plaster 
casts of those who had broken bones when at school, meaning we 
hoped that person would get better.

Um, so all the very best with the operation.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 14 07:38:31 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:38:31 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gaidso+9lpv@eGroups.com>
References: <gaibnm+7tsq@eGroups.com> <gaidso+9lpv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <52AAA715F1BF4D19AB567B2D63FC9C29@FRODO>

[Goddlefrood]:
| ironically. It was something that we all used to write on plaster 
| casts of those who had broken bones when at school, meaning we 
| hoped that person would get better.
| 
| Um, so all the very best with the operation.

[Lee]:

Thanks.  Well, we can write it on my eye patch??? :-)

Cheers,

Lee (With cold pack on face again.)




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 14 11:52:44 2008
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:52:44 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <544CF10EAB13463A9D3F6CE1BAB7DA78@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gaituc+pcur@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing 
Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:

> My biggest problem right now is my blood pressure due to stress.  Of 
course,
> that's gonna worry the surgeons and all that stuff, so, not only am I
> grateful for positive thoughts and prayers, but anyone know any food 
that is
> good at lowering pressure besides the great "anti-vampire" 
substance? :-)

Well, if you're signing off, I don't know if you'll see this, but my 
dad swears by an ounce of dark chocolate and a glass of wine or bit of 
brandy every evening.  This is on top of avoiding salt pretty much 
completely.

Annemehr





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep 14 12:48:55 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:48:55 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <544CF10EAB13463A9D3F6CE1BAB7DA78@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gaj17n+h1jp@eGroups.com>


> [Lee]:

> 
> My biggest problem right now is my blood pressure due to stress.  
Of course,
> that's gonna worry the surgeons and all that stuff, so, not only am 
I
> grateful for positive thoughts and prayers, but anyone know any 
food that is
> good at lowering pressure besides the great "anti-vampire" 
substance? :-)
> 
> Gonna sign for now, but will write and let y'all know I survived. :-
)

Potioncat:

I've said a prayer or two for you. Hope everything has gone well.

The DASH diet is a good "take action" way of controlling blood 
presure. Here's a Mayo Clinic link that describes it. There is 
another link at that site for tons of recipes that I just stumbled 
upon, but haven't read.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dash-diet/HI00047










From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 14 13:01:47 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:01:47 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gaituc+pcur@eGroups.com>
References: <544CF10EAB13463A9D3F6CE1BAB7DA78@FRODO> <gaituc+pcur@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <35FD1D5A69D74EAEA072CF26FDFAAC4F@FRODO>

[Annemehr]:
| Well, if you're signing off, I don't know if you'll see this, but my 
| dad swears by an ounce of dark chocolate and a glass of wine 
| or bit of 
| brandy every evening.  This is on top of avoiding salt pretty much 
| completely.

[Lee]:

Ah--Dark Chocolate...Food of the Gods! :-)  I don't know about the wine or
brandy; those super-horse-pill antibiotics warn against that.  So, I'll
substitute with a bit more dark chocolate. :-)

Yes, for the next few days, it's no sun, no alcohol, etc., and fortunately,
I'm not one who adds salt as I figure there's already way too much in the
food we eat anyway. :-)

Thanks, and cheers for chocolate!

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 14 16:35:58 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:35:58 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gaibnm+7tsq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gajehe+48u5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The
> Healing Force\)" <n2fgc@> wrote:
> >
> > | Goddlefrood:
> > | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.
> > 
> > [Lee]:
> > Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)\
> 
> From context, surely BoBL is Best of British Luck and BoAL is Best of
> American Luck. 

Geoff:
The context wasn't very clear, however.

Our side often truncates it to "Best of British" - often ironically.




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 14 17:19:46 2008
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 17:19:46 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <35FD1D5A69D74EAEA072CF26FDFAAC4F@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gajh3i+gmd8@eGroups.com>


> [Lee]:
> 
> Ah--Dark Chocolate...Food of the Gods! :-)  I don't know about the 
wine or
> brandy; those super-horse-pill antibiotics warn against that.  So, 
I'll
> substitute with a bit more dark chocolate. :-)

I'm pretty sure it's not just the alcohol that's effective.  You might 
want to try purple grape juice, as it has basically the same healthy 
chemicals that the fermented drinks do.

But by all means, double up on the chocolate! ;)

Annemehr





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 14 17:41:28 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 14 Sep 2008 17:41:28 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/14/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1221414088.19.42352.m43@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 14, 2008
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2008 
 Yahoo! Inc.
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From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Sun Sep 14 19:12:13 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:12:13 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gajh3i+gmd8@eGroups.com>
References: <35FD1D5A69D74EAEA072CF26FDFAAC4F@FRODO> <gajh3i+gmd8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0809141212v23f12c67xd477fb83187981d2@mail.gmail.com>

Annemehr
> I'm pretty sure it's not just the alcohol that's effective. You might
> want to try purple grape juice, as it has basically the same healthy
> chemicals that the fermented drinks do.
>
> But by all means, double up on the chocolate! ;)

I believe it's the phenols that's heart-healthy (doesn't balance out
the detriment of the alcohol, though) - it's also good for
antioxidants but no one talks about that.  Really, grapes and other
fruits/veggies will render similar results (and you get the other
goodness of fruits/veggies as well).

But yes, doubling up on the dark chocolate can't hurt.  :)

Good luck, Lee!  I'm sending thoughts of the best NYC chocolatiers to you.

~Ali



From md at exit-reality.com  Sun Sep 14 19:54:15 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:54:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0809141212v23f12c67xd477fb83187981d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <35FD1D5A69D74EAEA072CF26FDFAAC4F@FRODO> <gajh3i+gmd8@eGroups.com> <b6e131bf0809141212v23f12c67xd477fb83187981d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e101c916a3$ab3b7290$01b257b0$@com>

But there is no detriment in small quantities of alcohol. Studies have shown
that the alcohol itself is only harmful in large doses, in excessive amounts
over time and in people with issues such as liver disease.

mf

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of P. Alexis Nguyen
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:12 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?

Annemehr
> I'm pretty sure it's not just the alcohol that's effective. You might
> want to try purple grape juice, as it has basically the same healthy
> chemicals that the fermented drinks do.
>
> But by all means, double up on the chocolate! ;)

I believe it's the phenols that's heart-healthy (doesn't balance out
the detriment of the alcohol, though) - it's also good for
antioxidants but no one talks about that.  Really, grapes and other
fruits/veggies will render similar results (and you get the other
goodness of fruits/veggies as well).

But yes, doubling up on the dark chocolate can't hurt.  :)

Good luck, Lee!  I'm sending thoughts of the best NYC chocolatiers to you.

~Ali

------------------------------------

________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
Ave 
The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them!
http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
Yahoo! Groups Links







From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 09:55:31 2008
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:55:31 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <gajehe+48u5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <galbej+q88l@eGroups.com>

> > > | Goddlefrood:
> > > | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.

> > > [Lee]:
> > > Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)\

> > Catlady:
> > From context, surely BoBL is Best of British Luck and BoAL is 
> > Best of American Luck. 

> Geoff:
> Our side often truncates it to "Best of British" - often 
> ironically.

Goddlefrood, belatedly realising that he should remember to switch 
identities before posting #-o:

If something's worth saying, it's worth repeating, hmm? I pointed 
out that BoBL, Best of British, Best of British Luck, or what you 
will can have an ironic meaning. I'm presuming that by 'our side' 
you mean the other side of the Pennines, but clarification always 
helps ;-)

Putting the B in British, this has been Goddlefrood from the 
middle of the second pond over, whichever way you might travel.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 13:29:06 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:29:06 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <galbej+q88l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <galnv2+pa5f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:
>
> > > > | Goddlefrood:
> > > > | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.
> 
> > > > [Lee]:
> > > > Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)\
> 
> > > Catlady:
> > > From context, surely BoBL is Best of British Luck and BoAL is 
> > > Best of American Luck. 
> 
> > Geoff:
> > Our side often truncates it to "Best of British" - often 
> > ironically.

Goddlefrood:
> If something's worth saying, it's worth repeating, hmm? I pointed 
> out that BoBL, Best of British, Best of British Luck, or what you 
> will can have an ironic meaning. 

Geoff:
Sorry, I must have missed that in your post.

Goddlefrood:
> I'm presuming that by 'our side' you mean the other side of 
> the Pennines, but clarification always helps ;-)
 
> Putting the B in British, this has been Goddlefrood from the 
> middle of the second pond over, whichever way you might travel.

Geoff:
Just put your wooden spoon away.... You know perfectly well that
I meant our side of the "pond" - the Atlantic "pond" in case you're
planning another stir.

As it happens, I have family connections on both sides of the 
Pennines so there isn't an "our side" for me in that situation.






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 14:27:21 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:27:21 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <032401c91531$e0f58f60$a2e0ae20$@com>
Message-ID: <galrc9+4hru@eGroups.com>

> Carol earlier:
> 
> Since the writer is a reporter for the Associated Press, I'm pretty
> sure that it's as reliable as journalism gets. <snip> AP is probably
the most objective source, at least their mission is to provide
reliable, unbiased news coverage.
> 
> http://www.ap.org/pages/about/about.html
> 
> In short, just because this article appeared on Yahoo doesn't mean
it originated there.
>
Cabal responded:
>
> CNN was discussing this morning and said the article was in the NYT.

Carol again:
Not surprising. The AP is a news source for many reputable papers, the
NYT among them. But the article didn't originate in the NYT. It only
appeared there.

Carol, not quite sure what Cabal's point was




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 14:30:14 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:30:14 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <EE2F759D48E64C689406EAE59CBEC2A6@FRODO>
Message-ID: <galrhm+co5l@eGroups.com>

Lee wrote:
<snip> 
> I've got a sched for eye surgery on Monday and can't wait as I have
been in non-stop distress for about a month and painkillers aren't
helping.
> 
> I ran into problems after undergoing the pre-op stuff last week; the
doctor I saw this past Wednesday for clearance found my blood pressure
to be too high and pulse too fast.  I informed her that I was stressed
to the max with all the pain and wasn't surprised my BP was hitting
the ceiling.  Well, doc decided that since she also found some
"non-specific changes" in my EKG, she wanted an echo cardiogram which
I had done yesterday.  She also slapped me on Toporol (SP?) for
lowering my pressure.  Fortunately, the echo was fine; she told me
that when she saw me today.
> 
> She also noticed an elevation of white cells so I asked her about a
preventative antibiotic.  Suffice it to say she gave me a super-dose
stuff to take for the next three days.
> 
> Just send me all the prayers and good thoughts you can, good people,
as I truly gotta have this surgery on Monday and want no ill effects.
 Anyone wanting specifics feel free to haunt me off list.  It's a most
unusual problem. :-)
> 
> Thanks for the shoulders to cry on. ;)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee ;)

Carol responds:

Hang in there, lee. It will be better after the surgery. You're in my
thoughts and prayers.

Carol




From YasminOaks at aol.com  Mon Sep 15 14:32:22 2008
From: YasminOaks at aol.com (YasminOaks at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:32:22 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
Message-ID: <c58.2b891548.35ffcbf6@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 9/15/2008 10:30:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
justcarol67 at yahoo.com writes:

 
 
 
Lee wrote:
<snip> 
> I've got a sched for eye surgery on  Monday and can't wait as I have
been in non-stop distress for about a month  and painkillers aren't
helping.
> 
> I ran into problems after  undergoing the pre-op stuff last week; the
doctor I saw this past Wednesday  for clearance found my blood pressure
to be too high and pulse too fast. I  informed her that I was stressed
to the max with all the pain and wasn't  surprised my BP was hitting
the ceiling. Well, doc decided that since she  also found some
"non-specific changes" in my EKG, she wanted an echo  cardiogram which
I had done yesterday. She also slapped me on Toporol (SP?)  for
lowering my pressure. Fortunately, the echo was fine; she told  me
that when she saw me today.
> 
> She also noticed an  elevation of white cells so I asked her about a
preventative antibiotic.  Suffice it to say she gave me a super-dose
stuff to take for the next three  days.
> 
> Just send me all the prayers and good thoughts you can,  good people,
as I truly gotta have this surgery on Monday and want no ill  effects.
Anyone wanting specifics feel free to haunt me off list. It's a  most
unusual problem. :-)
> 
> Thanks for the shoulders to cry  on. ;)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee ;)

Carol  responds:

Hang in there, lee. It will be better after the surgery.  You're in my
thoughts and  prayers.

Carol






You are in my thoughts and prayers too, Lee.
 
Hugs,
Cathy



**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, 
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.      
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 14:34:14 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:34:14 -0000
Subject: RDR is expected to file an appeal
Message-ID: <galrp6+cn8v@eGroups.com>

It is reported on Leaky that Detroit paper reported an interview with 
rappaport that he expects his attorneys to file notice of appeal this 
week.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/9/15/jkr-wb-vs-rdr-books-trial-
an-appeal-to-be-filed


So, appeal is not filed yet, but I am assuming that since he said it 
out loud, it will be. Now in the less high profile case the fact that 
they will file notice of appeal would not necessarily mean that the 
appeal would be perfected, since notice of appeal just preserves your 
right to file an appellate brief later on.

However, I would expect that in such high profile case if they stated 
their intentions publicly, it will be filed, brief and all.

Wonderful attorney whom I admire and respect often tells us when you 
are thinking about taking case for appeal always consider the 
implications of making a bad law for everybody else if you loose the 
case.

I hope RDR's attorneys did consider those implications well. I mean, 
of course they can win which will be good for them, but if they 
loose, they will create a precedent, which other judges will be more 
obligated to follow than Judge Patterson's decision, since it will no 
longer be just a lower court's decision.

Alla




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 14:35:33 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:35:33 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts For Me, Please?
In-Reply-To: <123D849B06F94EDF807DAD4F2D6F6CFF@FRODO>
Message-ID: <galrrl+jubb@eGroups.com>

Goddlefrood:
> | > | BoBL, perhaps inappropriately ;-). BoAL might be better.
> | > 
> | > [Lee]:
> | > 
> | > Not sure what those acronyms are, but... :-)
> | > 
> | > Lee :-)
> | 
> | Geoff:
> | He's lost me too....
> 
> [Lee]:
> <Sigh>
> Goodie!  Makes me feel better to not be the only lost one.

Carol responds:
You have plenty of company!

Carol, guessing that "Bo" is "better off" but probably wrong and at a
total loss for the rest
>





From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Sep 15 18:24:11 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:24:11 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <galrc9+4hru@eGroups.com>
References: <032401c91531$e0f58f60$a2e0ae20$@com> <galrc9+4hru@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <050901c91760$4313a530$c93aef90$@com>



-----Original Message-----

>
Cabal responded:
>
> CNN was discussing this morning and said the article was in the NYT.

Carol again:
Not surprising. The AP is a news source for many reputable papers, the
NYT among them. But the article didn't originate in the NYT. It only
appeared there.

Carol, not quite sure what Cabal's point was

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

My point was, that online sources could be coming from almost anywhere, but
a source such as the NYT has filters and standards in place, they don't want
to be caught reporting on something completely erroneous, so they are more
reliable / believable than "Yahoo" or some other online source that picks up
stories unfiltered. Quite often the NYT and other such papers will actually
report when the AP or Reuters miss-reports, unlike Yahoo which simply shows
the AP or Reuters story.

That was Cabal's point.






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 20:07:08 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:07:08 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <050901c91760$4313a530$c93aef90$@com>
Message-ID: <gamf9c+88me@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cabal" <md at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> >
> Cabal responded:
> >
> > CNN was discussing this morning and said the article was 
> > in the NYT.
> 
> Carol again:
> ...
> 
> Carol, not quite sure what Cabal's point was
> 
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> 
> My point was, that online sources could be coming from 
> almost anywhere, but a source such as the NYT has filters 
> and standards in place... ...
> 
> That was Cabal's point.
>


bboyminn:

I think there is also a degree of prestige in referencing
the NY Times. If a report starts with 'according to an 
article in the NY Times' that adds credibility to the 
statement even if the article in question originated in
the AP or other wire services. 

Just passing it along.

steve/bluewizard




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 20:58:32 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:58:32 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
Message-ID: <gami9o+d4ib@eGroups.com>

I'm editing a manuscript by a non-native English speaker who wants to
use British English but is making lots of errors, one of which is
referring to an unmarried teacher as Mrs Somebody. (Sctually she
spells it the American way, "Mrs."). I'm wondering whether British
English uses "Ms" or whether unmarried women are always referred to as
"Miss," as they were in the U.S. before feminism came along.

Carol, who should have posted her request this morning and hopes to
get some quick, authoritative answers!




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 21:12:27 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:12:27 -0000
Subject: Palin and book banning again
In-Reply-To: <050901c91760$4313a530$c93aef90$@com>
Message-ID: <gamj3r+kpf6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cabal" <md at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> >
> Cabal responded:
> >
> > CNN was discussing this morning and said the article was in the NYT.
> 
> Carol again:
> Not surprising. The AP is a news source for many reputable papers,
the NYT among them. But the article didn't originate in the NYT. It
only appeared there.
> 
> Carol, not quite sure what Cabal's point was
> 
>
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> 
> My point was, that online sources could be coming from almost
anywhere, but a source such as the NYT has filters and standards in
place, they don't want to be caught reporting on something completely
erroneous, so they are more reliable / believable than "Yahoo" or some
other online source that picks up stories unfiltered. Quite often the
NYT and other such papers will actually report when the AP or Reuters
miss-reports, unlike Yahoo which simply shows the AP or Reuters story.
> 
> That was Cabal's point.
>
Carol:
Thanks for the clarification. It looks like your point about the Times
was the same as mine about AP, the source of the article. Reputable
either way. That Yahoo picked it up is really not relevant. What
counts is the source of the article and the reputable sources that
print it. I wasn't aware that the New York Times corrected AP
articles, but I'll take you at your word.

Anyway, I wasn't sure why you were mentioning the New York Times when
I'd already mentioned the source of the article, a named AP reporter,
as being reputable. Now I understand the implications of your post.

Carol, noting that facts don't always speak for themselves, so it
never hurts to state the reason for posting them :-)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 22:59:16 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:59:16 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gami9o+d4ib@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gampc4+35jh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> I'm editing a manuscript by a non-native English speaker who wants to
> use British English but is making lots of errors, one of which is
> referring to an unmarried teacher as Mrs Somebody. (Sctually she
> spells it the American way, "Mrs."). I'm wondering whether British
> English uses "Ms" or whether unmarried women are always referred to as
> "Miss," as they were in the U.S. before feminism came along.
> 
> Carol, who should have posted her request this morning and hopes to
> get some quick, authoritative answers!

Geoff:
First, I don't quite see your point about spelling "Mrs.' with the full stop; 
that IS the UK way. I thought that "Mrs" and "Mr" were US variants.

UK English uses "Ms" but, in a school situation,almost all pupils would 
probably say "Miss" unless they knew that the teacher was married - and 
the teacher would still be addressed as "Miss" if her name was not 
included. "Ms" has never widely caught on in casual conversation as 
much as I believe it might have in the US. 






From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Sep 15 23:47:43 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:47:43 -0400
Subject: Positive Thoughts--Keep 'em coming
Message-ID: <9EAC4F0D8ACC4C608642D6EE24E3377F@FRODO>

I Survived! :-)

The surgery went fine, I look like a white-patch pirate, I now itch which is
better than hurting.  Tomorrow, Tuesday, 9:45 ET, I go for my follow-up
which means I go from patch and stuff to shield if all is well, which I
firmly believe it will be.  I even got a lovely call just now from my
surgeon expressing her hope of my comfort and wanting to know if I had any
problems or questions.  I told her that when I came for my follow-up, she
had better leave the hair *on* my head when pulling off the tape which
impinges on my hair line. :-)

Keep those prayers & positive thoughts coming for the next couple weeks;
that should be the end of all the hurtles.  Believe me, they're appreciated,
and the thoughts of NYC Chocolatiers are always welcome, especially those of
the darkest chocolate! <Drool!>

I send you all many thanks and love!

Lee (aka Lady Pirate) :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Sep 16 01:22:02 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:22:02 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts--Keep 'em coming
In-Reply-To: <9EAC4F0D8ACC4C608642D6EE24E3377F@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gan1nq+iuu7@eGroups.com>


>Lee:
> I Survived! :-)
> 
> The surgery went fine, I look like a white-patch pirate, I now itch 
which is
> better than hurting.  

Potioncat:
Ahoy matey! Shiver me timbers, and thanks for the update. I've been 
thinking about you all day!




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 01:26:17 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:26:17 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts--Keep 'em coming
In-Reply-To: <9EAC4F0D8ACC4C608642D6EE24E3377F@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gan1vp+j5r3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing 
Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> I Survived! :-)
> 
Alla:

Lee, I am so so glad and yes, dark chocolate is so so wonderful :-)




From hells456 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 22:45:36 2008
From: hells456 at yahoo.co.uk (hells)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:45:36 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gami9o+d4ib@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <379375.75404.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

From: Carol <justcarol67 at yahoo.com>

I'm editing a manuscript by a non-native English speaker who wants to
use British English but is making lots of errors, one of which is
referring to an unmarried teacher as Mrs Somebody. (Sctually she
spells it the American way, "Mrs."). I'm wondering whether
British English uses "Ms" or whether unmarried women are always referred to as "Miss," as they were in the U.S. before feminism came along.

Carol, who should have posted her request this morning and hopes to
get some quick, authoritative answers!

Hells:

It depends on the woman herself. In my experience, I have rarely come across someone who calls themself 'Ms'. Usually it is just 'Miss'. However, my daughter has a teacher at the moment who goes by 'Ms' but she lets the children call her 'Miss'. 'Mrs' is only used when they are actually married. The 'Ms' is so underused round here that all the parents call her 'Mzzzzz Whatshername' and find it a bit weird and secretly mutter about whether she is embarrassed she couldn't find a bloke, or if she gets on the other bus.

Hope that helps.
Hells



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep 16 16:44:18 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:44:18 -0400
Subject: Whoopy! All's Well!
Message-ID: <10C9914A45964F3E9F112AD67B0154F7@FRODO>

Need I say more?  The follow-up went fine and it's so nice to be tapeless.
<Grin>  Fortunately, I still have my hair, eyelashes and face...they let me
keep those after removing the tape. :-)

Next follow-up next week which, if everything goes like the last time, will
be a ho-hum, I get to drop off one of the presently three drops I'm taking,
and, as of now, my life can go back to whatever "normal" is for it. :-)

Thanks again for all the good thoughts and prayers...and chocolate! :-)  I
should add that we stopped off at our fave breakfast stop on the way home
and had a celebratory breakfast...Yum!

Talk to y'all later, and I pray you all will find an extra smile this week.

Lee :-)


Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 17:09:54 2008
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Party for Lee!
Message-ID: <11352.62913.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

*finishes hanging paper ships around the room and grabs a bag of balloons decorated with skull and cross bones*

Heck, why not have a pirate party to help Lee celebrate coming through surgery successfully? C'mon me hearties, don your pirate gear and join the fun.

Nibblies and fizzy drinks are in abundance, as is a mountain of the finest dark chocolate.

Lee, I'm so glad things went well for you!

Sheryll, being a non-Birthday Elf :D


      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep 16 18:09:23 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:09:23 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Party for Lee!
In-Reply-To: <11352.62913.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <11352.62913.qm@web63405.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6E816DFFE57E47FF9C9882C5F776C810@FRODO>

OOOO! I wuv parties!!  <Swishes out pirate sword to chop off a hunk of Dark
Chocolate> Aaaarrrr! Now we're talking serious good stuff. :-)

Thanks, Sheryll, for the un-birthday party.  Let the singing, dancing and
*Eating* begin!  I raise my tankard of Butterbeer to you all.

Now, who's that skulking at the door...come in! Come in!  Plenty for all!

Cheers,

Lee :-) (Hacking off another piece of chocolate)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep 16 21:58:02 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:58:02 -0000
Subject: Party for Lee!
In-Reply-To: <6E816DFFE57E47FF9C9882C5F776C810@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gapa5a+h7cf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> OOOO! I wuv parties!!  <Swishes out pirate sword to chop off a hunk of Dark
> Chocolate> Aaaarrrr! Now we're talking serious good stuff. :-)
> 
> Thanks, Sheryll, for the un-birthday party.  Let the singing, dancing and
> *Eating* begin!  I raise my tankard of Butterbeer to you all.
> 
> Now, who's that skulking at the door...come in! Come in!  Plenty for all!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee :-) (Hacking off another piece of chocolate)

Geoff:
<enters bearng a virtual tray of mugs of hot chocolate, eclairs 
and several  bars of Tesco's Smooth Dark Chocolate>

Soory I can't stop, guys, it's nearing bedtime here and I have a 
lot to do between now and midnight.

Have a great party - glad all went well, Lee. Don't do anything 
I wouldn't do....

<wiggles eyebrows>

...which gives you plenty of scope.
:-)))
<exits stage left>




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 15:31:46 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:31:46 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gampc4+35jh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gar7t2+ap4i@eGroups.com>

carol earlier:
> >
> > I'm editing a manuscript by a non-native English speaker who wants
to use British English but is making lots of errors, one of which is
referring to an unmarried teacher as Mrs Somebody. (Actually she
spells it the American way, "Mrs."). I'm wondering whether British
English uses "Ms" or whether unmarried women are always referred to as
"Miss," as they were in the U.S. before feminism came along.
> > 
> > Carol, who should have posted her request this morning and hopes
to get some quick, authoritative answers!
> 
> Geoff:
> First, I don't quite see your point about spelling "Mrs.' with the
full stop; that IS the UK way. I thought that "Mrs" and "Mr" were US
variants.

Carol:

Nope, not American! Both words are spelled with a period in U.S.
English. However, the British style guides I've encountered in my
editing projects now consider "Mr" and "Mrs" (no full stop) and
similar terms to be contractions because they end with the same letter
as the original word. I'm not making this up. Other apostropheless
"contractions" include "Dr" and "St". (whether that stands for "Saint"
or "Street" or both, I'm not sure.)

"Fowler's Modern English Usage," the best authority for British usage
that I have on hand, has the following entry: "Mr, Mrs  Now usually
spelled without the points." (I guess I should have said "point"
instead of "full stop" for a period other than one ending a sentence.
In the U.S., both are called periods.)

Fowler's (which I forgot to consult before posting my request) does
list "Ms" (with or without the "full point"--shouldn't that just be
"point"?) as an American invention "artificially introduced" in the
1950s and states that "when Ms is used the style to be followed is:
(on the envelope) Ms Fiona Jones: (at the beginning of a formal
letter) Dear Ms Jones."

So the British style is without the period, point, full point, or
whatever you want to call it, but Fowler's seems to regard "Ms" as an
invasive and artificial Americanism.

Geoff: 
> UK English uses "Ms" but, in a school situation,almost all pupils
would  probably say "Miss" unless they knew that the teacher was
married - and the teacher would still be addressed as "Miss" if her
name was not included. "Ms" has never widely caught on in casual
conversation as much as I believe it might have in the US.

Carol:
Thanks. That's the impression that I got from Fowler's, too. I pointed
out to the client that the teacher was unmarried, so "Mrs" (with or
without a period) is incorrect and suggested "Miss" instead.

Carol, who never cared for "Ms." either, except that it's handy when I
don't know a woman's marital status





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 15:37:22 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:37:22 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts--Keep 'em coming
In-Reply-To: <gan1nq+iuu7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gar87i+umu8@eGroups.com>

Lee:
> > I Survived! :-)
> > 
> > The surgery went fine, I look like a white-patch pirate, I now
itch  which is better than hurting.  
> 
> Potioncat:
> Ahoy matey! Shiver me timbers, and thanks for the update. I've been 
> thinking about you all day!
>
Carol:
You beat me to the silly pirate talk, so I'll just add, Aargh! We knew
ye could do it! (Can anything be done about the itching? I know you
can't put anything *on* the eye, but maybe Benadryl would help?)

Carol, who has worn eye patches on occasion, but mine were flesh-colored




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 15:46:48 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:46:48 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <379375.75404.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gar8p8+j9uo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, hells <hells456 at ...> wrote:
>
> From: Carol <justcarol67 at ...>
> 
> I'm editing a manuscript by a non-native English speaker who wants to
> use British English but is making lots of errors, one of which is
> referring to an unmarried teacher as Mrs Somebody. (Sctually she
> spells it the American way, "Mrs."). I'm wondering whether
> British English uses "Ms" or whether unmarried women are always
referred to as "Miss," as they were in the U.S. before feminism came
along.
> 
> Carol, who should have posted her request this morning and hopes to
> get some quick, authoritative answers!
> 
> Hells:
> 
> It depends on the woman herself. In my experience, I have rarely
come across someone who calls themself 'Ms'. Usually it is just
'Miss'. However, my daughter has a teacher at the moment who goes by
'Ms' but she lets the children call her 'Miss'. 'Mrs' is only used
when they are actually married. The 'Ms' is so underused round here
that all the parents call her 'Mzzzzz Whatshername' and find it a bit
weird and secretly mutter about whether she is embarrassed she
couldn't find a bloke, or if she gets on the other bus.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Hells
>
Carol:
Thanks. "Ms." is, of course, pronounced "Miz," exactly as "Mrs." is
pronounced in the American South (right, Potioncat?), but I can see
why people unfamiliar with it (me, when I first heard of it!) would
think it was pronounced "Mz." Some women who use it consider their
marital status to be nobody's business. Others use it because they're
divorced and are neither "Miss" nor "Mrs." As I noted earlier, it's
convenient for letter writers who don't know the marital status of the
woman they're writing to. And there's always the feminist argument
that if a man's marital status doesn't matter, why should a woman's?
But for an unmarried woman, I agree that "Miss" sounds better.

I don't understand the "gets on the other bus" reference. Can you
explain it for me?

Thanks,
Carol, surprised to find herself almost defending a usage that she
considers ugly!




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Wed Sep 17 15:56:15 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:56:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gar8p8+j9uo@eGroups.com>
References: <379375.75404.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	 <gar8p8+j9uo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0809170856x7cf99db6j4a2a1c94563737ec@mail.gmail.com>

Carol:
> I don't understand the "gets on the other bus" reference. Can you
> explain it for me?

Ali:
Betting it means the same as the US "bats for the other team" reference.



> Carol, surprised to find herself almost defending a usage that she
> considers ugly!

Ali:
While I'm not a personal fan of the term, I don't understand the
complete dislike of it.  It's entirely convenient.  When I have to
write to a client, I use Ms. all the time.  It's convenient and
inoffensive (whereas I've had miss and mrs raise more than a few
hackles when I've accidentally used it wrong), albeit a little too
politically correct for my tastes (then again, my work insists on the
use of "his/her" in all our documents).


~Ali, not understanding the vitriol some (no one in this group that I
can tell) has for ms



From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 15:57:06 2008
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann Jennings)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:57:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Party for Lee!
Message-ID: <990300.23112.qm@web25806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Great idea, Sheryll!  Lee, I'm glad to hear you're on the mend and that everything will be back to normal soon, which may mean anything on this list. ;)

Oooh, dark chocolate!  I brought some brownies and sponge cake as well.

Mary Ann, who loves any reason for a get-together



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 17 16:26:27 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:26:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Positive Thoughts--Keep 'em coming
In-Reply-To: <gar87i+umu8@eGroups.com>
References: <gan1nq+iuu7@eGroups.com> <gar87i+umu8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <E1BB6168A99D4D27BFDB8F2D06D921CB@FRODO>

| Carol:
| You beat me to the silly pirate talk, so I'll just add, Aargh! We knew
| ye could do it! (Can anything be done about the itching? I know you
| can't put anything *on* the eye, but maybe Benadryl would help?)

[Lee]:
Well, that doesn't work for me, but Monica gave me a lubricant which I can
use if the itching becomes intolerable.  It's not to bad, not where I can't
deal, and if I blink my eye the right way, I can usually get the eyelashes
(primary itch source) out of the way. :-)  My luck...I've got really long,
thick lashes; the mascara people don't like me because I'm naturally
endowed. :-)

Smiles,

Lee :-)
(Who just left a huge "THANK YOU!" message for her Doc this a.m.)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 20:50:09 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:50:09 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gar7t2+ap4i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <garqi1+v0de@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
 
Carol:  
> "Fowler's Modern English Usage," the best authority for British usage
> that I have on hand, has the following entry: "Mr, Mrs  Now usually
> spelled without the points." (I guess I should have said "point"
> instead of "full stop" for a period other than one ending a sentence.
> In the U.S., both are called periods.)

Geoff:
Likewise, they are both full stops to us.

Carol:
> So the British style is without the period, point, full point, or
> whatever you want to call it, but Fowler's seems to regard "Ms" as an
> invasive and artificial Americanism.
 
Geoff: 
Possibly the UK English commercial/office/official style but very many 
people, including myself, stick with the full stops for personal usage. 
The only place I tend to drop full stops out is in initials - NEWT instead 
of N.E.W.T. for example.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 20:53:50 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:53:50 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gar8p8+j9uo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <garqou+pg4n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Carol:
 > I don't understand the "gets on the other bus" reference. Can you
> explain it for me?

Geoff:
This, I believe is what we in the UK might politely refer to as "batting/
playing for the other team" or "swinging the other way", i.e. a comment 
on possible gay inclinations.

Correct me if I'm wrong.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Sep 18 01:39:51 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:39:51 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gar7t2+ap4i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gasbh7+ng1v@eGroups.com>


> Carol, who never cared for "Ms." either, except that it's handy when I
> don't know a woman's marital status


Potioncat:
My mother (a nurse) had Ms. on her uniform name-pin. She was divorced 
and didn't like Miss or Mrs. as an option. It was a small town and by 
then there was another Mrs. Sanders.

When I graduated from the school of nursing, I stayed in the city where 
I had gone to university. I also used Ms. on my pin. I didn't 
particularly want to advertise my marital status to patients. My mother 
was horrified. She was afraid it would send the wrong message---that 
people would think I was divorced. (gasp!)

Didn't matter. Within the year I had exchanged Ms.for ENS (Ensign, USN).





From Schlobin at aol.com  Thu Sep 18 03:05:21 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:05:21 -0000
Subject: Positive Thoughts--Keep 'em coming
In-Reply-To: <9EAC4F0D8ACC4C608642D6EE24E3377F@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gasghh+lfm6@eGroups.com>

Glad the surgery went well, Lee, and best wishes, Susan




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 05:58:48 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 05:58:48 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
Message-ID: <gasqmo+e3kp@eGroups.com>

You learn something new everyday. I was reading an interview 
with Dan Radcliffe, -

http://www.redorbit.com/news/entertainment/1556679/radcliffe_grows_up_quite_nicely/

and in the lead in, the reporter said of Dan -

"He has a */catholic array/* of deeply held opinions - on sloppy 
diction, on whining actors, on male competitiveness, on the 
changing-of-the-guard ceremony at Buckingham Palace, on the 
spelling of "aluminum" - and in several conversations over the 
summer he was more than happy to disseminate them."

In all honesty I had never heard the word 'catholic' used in 
this context and wasn't aware that the word had any meaning 
beyond the Catholic faith. 

Apparently, 'catholic' means comprehensive or universal. 

Who knew?

Just passing it along.

Steve/bluewizard






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 06:36:06 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:36:06 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gasqmo+e3kp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gasssm+8is9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> You learn something new everyday. I was reading an interview 
> with Dan Radcliffe, -

<snip>
 
> In all honesty I had never heard the word 'catholic' used in 
> this context and wasn't aware that the word had any meaning 
> beyond the Catholic faith. 
> 
> Apparently, 'catholic' means comprehensive or universal. 
> 
> Who knew?

Geoff:
I did. 

As probably do a large number of Brits; "catholic" with a small "c" 
is frequently used with that meaning.





From kenadams705 at btinternet.com  Thu Sep 18 10:01:22 2008
From: kenadams705 at btinternet.com (KEN ADAMS)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:01:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
Message-ID: <756794.11624.qm@web87005.mail.ird.yahoo.com>


Ken 
In support of Geoff: So did I it refers to a broad array.




--- In HPFGU-OTChatter@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve" <bboyminn at .. .> wrote:
>
> You learn something new everyday. I was reading an interview 
> with Dan Radcliffe, -

<snip>

> In all honesty I had never heard the word 'catholic' used in 
> this context and wasn't aware that the word had any meaning 
> beyond the Catholic faith. 
> 
> Apparently, 'catholic' means comprehensive or universal. 
> 
> Who knew?

Geoff:
I did. 

As probably do a large number of Brits; "catholic" with a small "c" 
is frequently used with that meaning.

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From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 10:45:12 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (Kai Wen Lee)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gasqmo+e3kp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <446874.10006.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Thu, 9/18/08, Steve <bboyminn at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Steve <bboyminn at yahoo.com>

"He has a */catholic array/* of deeply held opinions...."


Apparently, 'catholic' means comprehensive or universal. 



Who knew?

 





Me (CJ) now:

Yes, catholic? (from Latin kata "according to" and holos "the whole") means universal, and has been used by the Catholic Church to describe itself since Ignatius in the second century as the universal church.

However, I think the reporter misspoke. She/he/it probably didn't mean to say either that Daniel's opinions were universal, or that he's expounded opinions on every possible subject. I guess a better word would have been "eclectic".

CJ


	 
	
	








	


	
	

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Sep 18 11:58:29 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:58:29 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gasssm+8is9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gatfp5+p3ts@eGroups.com>

 
> Geoff:
> I did. 
> 
> As probably do a large number of Brits; "catholic" with a small "c" 
> is frequently used with that meaning.
>
Potioncat:
So that's why I believe in the the "holy catholic church."  

I understood the meaning, but never realised it had any secular use. 
And to be honest, I've never noticed the c is lower case. All these 
years I've been saying the Apostle's Creed incorrectly.   ;-)

Oh, by the way, Geoff---it took me a while, but I got the "wandered" 
bit in an earlier post. Cute.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 20:45:26 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:45:26 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gatfp5+p3ts@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gauel6+jd0a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Geoff:
> > I did. 
> > 
> > As probably do a large number of Brits; "catholic" with a small "c" 
> > is frequently used with that meaning.
> >
> Potioncat:
> So that's why I believe in the the "holy catholic church."  

Geoff:
Curiously, I nearly quoted the Apostles Creed but decided not to. We 
do occasionally say it, even in the Non-conformist churches.






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 20:47:16 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:47:16 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <446874.10006.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gaueok+8b56@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kai Wen Lee <leekaiwen at ...> wrote:

CJ:

> Yes, catholic? (from Latin kata "according to" and holos "the whole") means universal, and 
has been used by the Catholic Church to describe itself since Ignatius in the second century 
as the universal church.
> 
> However, I think the reporter misspoke. She/he/it probably didn't mean to say either that 
Daniel's opinions were universal, or that he's expounded opinions on every possible subject. 
I guess a better word would have been "eclectic".

Geoff:
Isn't that a word used by Arthur Weasley to describe things like plugs?
:-)))




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 19:43:10 2008
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (lizzie_snape)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:43:10 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <garqou+pg4n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gaub0e+3g8h@eGroups.com>

Contrary to popular belief, 'Ms' isn't an invention of the 
American 'Women's Lib' movement. In the 1950s it was used in business 
correspondence when the marital status of the woman was unknown.  It 
may have been earlier, but this is my personal experience.

I don't hear any difference in pronouncing it mz or miz.

Lizzie     




From jenn at phynn-phamily.us  Thu Sep 18 22:27:41 2008
From: jenn at phynn-phamily.us (Jennifer D. Phynn)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:27:41 -0400
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
Message-ID: <DC0AD149-D5E2-40EA-8690-2CD84936321A@phynn-phamily.us>

I knew too!
When I was looking at colleges more than a few years ago, (feels like  
an age ago, but we're only coming up on to our 15th reunion) my Dad  
objected to my first choice (and my eventual alma mater, Georgetown)  
because it was too "catholic" and not "Catholic" enough.  (One of the  
reasons I went there, by the way).  He was just upset daddy's little  
girl didn't want his school,  Boston College.  I told him that is  
what grandkids are for :-)

Poppy/Jenn



From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 23:52:59 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:52:59 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <446874.10006.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gaupkr+6v74@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kai Wen Lee <leekaiwen at ...> wrote:
>
> --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Steve <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
> From: Steve <bboyminn at ...>
> 
> "He has a */catholic array/* of deeply held opinions...."
> 
> 
> Apparently, 'catholic' means comprehensive or universal. 
> 
> 
> 
> Who knew?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me (CJ) now:
> 
> Yes, catholic  (from Latin kata "according to" and holos "the
whole") means universal, and has been used by the Catholic Church to
describe itself since Ignatius in the second century as the universal
church.
> 
> However, I think the reporter misspoke. She/he/it probably didn't
mean to say either that Daniel's opinions were universal, or that he's
expounded opinions on every possible subject. I guess a better word
would have been "eclectic".
> 
> CJ


I think in this context, it mean comprehensive, as in wide and
diversified array of opinions. 

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 00:06:14 2008
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:06:14 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list - Ms.
In-Reply-To: <gami9o+d4ib@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gauqdm+rj6g@eGroups.com>

--- "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> I'm editing a manuscript ...use British English but is making
> lots of errors, one of which is referring to an unmarried 
> teacher as Mrs Somebody. ... I'm wondering whether British
> English uses "Ms" or whether unmarried women are always 
> referred to as "Miss," ...
> 
> Carol, 

bboyminn:

Once again, on the origins of "Ms.", Wikipedia is your friend.

According to Wikipedia the use of 'Ms.' as a /marriage status/
neutral honorific for women dates back to the 1700's.

It became recognized by a couple of manuals of style in the 
1950's as being acceptable.

steve/bboyminn




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Sep 19 01:22:54 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:22:54 -0400
Subject: D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
Message-ID: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO>

Hi Friends,

First of all, I'm feeling great!  In fact, got a date in NYC with my brother
on Friday for an interesting expo on accessible tech and stuff, so I've
gotta polish my walking shoes and, BRRR, actually find a jacket to wear as
it's going to be a might chilly.  It should be a fun time...and a *Long*
day! :-)

I just got one of these TV converters, a Magnavox TB100MW9.  I installed the
thing and tried to do a set-up and get the words, "No Signal."  Duh--why?
I'm running cable so there's most definitely a signal.  Everything is
definitely hooked up correctly.  Has anyone else here had experience with
this particular model?  Is it one that can only be fixed by taking a hammer
to it? :-)

Thanks for any ideas y'all might have; I welcome any and every.  Meantime,
methinks me should quell the growling of my stomach. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Still licking her lips from all the pirate party left-overs.)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From donnawonna at att.net  Fri Sep 19 03:30:00 2008
From: donnawonna at att.net (Donna)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:30:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
References: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO>
Message-ID: <48D31CB8.000024.03444@LIFESAVER>


Donna Says:
Lee, I may be mistaken but I believe the TV converters are meant to be used
with televisions still connected to the old fashioned, on-the-roof antennas
or rabbit ears, not with cable, satellite, or laser TV.  I'm planning to get
one for "just in case" for times like now when we've lost cable because of
remnants of hurricane Ike blowing through Ohio.  

Lee:  
Hi Friends,

First of all, I'm feeling great! In fact, got a date in NYC with my brother
on Friday for an interesting expo on accessible tech and stuff, so I've
gotta polish my walking shoes and, BRRR, actually find a jacket to wear as
it's going to be a might chilly. It should be a fun time...and a *Long*
day! :-)

I just got one of these TV converters, a Magnavox TB100MW9. I installed the
thing and tried to do a set-up and get the words, "No Signal." Duh--why?
I'm running cable so there's most definitely a signal. Everything is
definitely hooked up correctly. Has anyone else here had experience with
this particular model? Is it one that can only be fixed by taking a hammer
to it? :-)

Thanks for any ideas y'all might have; I welcome any and every. Meantime,
methinks me should quell the growling of my stomach. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Still licking her lips from all the pirate party left-overs.)

Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead; | N2FGC
Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.


 
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Fri Sep 19 04:58:55 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:58:55 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
In-Reply-To: <48D31CB8.000024.03444@LIFESAVER>
References: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO> <48D31CB8.000024.03444@LIFESAVER>
Message-ID: <BA075AC468314E088E5823758A3FABF1@FRODO>

| Donna Says:
| Lee, I may be mistaken but I believe the TV converters are 
| meant to be used
| with televisions still connected to the old fashioned, 
| on-the-roof antennas
| or rabbit ears, not with cable, satellite, or laser TV.

[Lee]:
They need to be used with cable if the TV is analog and one is not using the
cable company's converter box.

But I now know what my problem is!  How's this for a waste of my time: Our
American Wal-Mart sold us boxes for *Canada*!  Scream!  Now we've got to go
back and return them and let them know that these Magnavox things are not
for American frequencies and demand to know why by Merlin's Pants they're
selling these, and hope we can get what we want/need on the American band.

That's the story so far.  I probably won't get a chance to hit Wal-Mart
until Saturday or Monday.

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 05:11:07 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:11:07 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gauel6+jd0a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gavc9b+7a85@eGroups.com>

> > Potioncat:
> > So that's why I believe in the the "holy catholic church."  
> 
> Geoff:
> Curiously, I nearly quoted the Apostles Creed but decided not to. We
do occasionally say it, even in the Non-conformist churches.
>
Carol:
I was also thinking of the Apostle's Creed. That's how I learned the
meaning of the word "catholic," too. I remember as a kid asking our
(Episcopal) priest why we Episcopalians were praying for the Catholics
and not for the "holy Episcopal church"! Then, of course, I wanted to
know why the Catholic church considered itself universal. (I suppose
it goes back to the time when Roman Catholic and Christian were
virtually anonymous, if you didn't count Greek Orthodox, which
probably didn't have that name yet.)

For anyone not familiar with the Apostle's Creed, here it is, in the
old-fashioned form that I prefer:

"I Believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And
in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy
Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary: Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was
crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he
rose again from the dead: He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the
right hand of God the Father Almighty: From thence he shall come to
judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost: The holy
Catholic Church; The Communion of Saints: The Forgiveness of sins: The
Resurrection of the body: And the Life everlasting. Amen."

The capitalization is as it appears in The Book of Common Prayer. The
text (and capitalization) may vary slightly in other denominations.
There's also the Nicene Creed, which refers to "the holy Catholic and
Apostolic Church," but I won't go into that.

Carol, who used to know the whole morning prayer service by heart 




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 05:15:13 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:15:13 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gaub0e+3g8h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gavch1+fvd0@eGroups.com>

lizzie_snape wrote:
>
> Contrary to popular belief, 'Ms' isn't an invention of the 
> American 'Women's Lib' movement. In the 1950s it was used in business 
> correspondence when the marital status of the woman was unknown.  It 
> may have been earlier, but this is my personal experience.
> 
> I don't hear any difference in pronouncing it mz or miz.
> 
> Lizzie
>
Carol responds:
"Miz" has a vowel. "Mz" doesn't. Make an "m" sound and a "z" without
an "ih" (short i) sound and you'll hear the difference. "Mz" more or
less rhymes with "buzz."

Carol, noting that Fowler's mentioned the 1950s in the quotation I
cited though I may have snipped that part




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Sep 19 05:29:23 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:29:23 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
In-Reply-To: <BA075AC468314E088E5823758A3FABF1@FRODO>
References: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO> <48D31CB8.000024.03444@LIFESAVER> <BA075AC468314E088E5823758A3FABF1@FRODO>
Message-ID: <008601c91a18$acc070c0$06415240$@com>

I have two tv's connected directly to cable, they get analog channels, but
since Comcast has digital only channels too, the set-top digital converter
gives me extra channels on those sets and better picture and sound. My main
set has a digital DVR so it gets everything.

The best part is, if you go to the website the government set up you can get
two $40 vouchers, and at Target the boxes are $49.99 so you can pick up to
digital boxes with remotes for $19.98.

Good deal.

md

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Storm (God Is The
Healing Force)
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:59 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question

| Donna Says:
| Lee, I may be mistaken but I believe the TV converters are 
| meant to be used
| with televisions still connected to the old fashioned, 
| on-the-roof antennas
| or rabbit ears, not with cable, satellite, or laser TV.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 19 06:34:18 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:34:18 -0000
Subject: Another question for the Brits on the list
In-Reply-To: <gavch1+fvd0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gavh5a+c751@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Carol:
>  "Mz" more or less rhymes with "buzz."

Geoff:
Pretend you're a bee seeking pollen and humming at the same time.
:-)







From specialcritters at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 14:04:45 2008
From: specialcritters at hotmail.com (Lee Truslow)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:04:45 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
In-Reply-To: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO>
References: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO>
Message-ID: <BAY138-W64E77800133753266B623B24E0@phx.gbl>


According to the Feds you don't need a box with cable. http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html 
http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq29
Does the DTV transition affect TV sets that are connected to cable services?
No. If you subscribe to cable service, the DTV transition should not affect any TV sets that are connected to your cable services. The DTV transition applies only to full-power broadcast television stations ? stations that use the public airwaves to transmit their programming to viewers through a broadcast antenna.



 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me

To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.comFrom: n2fgc at arrl.netDate


I just got one of these TV converters, a Magnavox TB100MW9. I installed thething and tried to do a set-up and get the words, "No Signal." Duh--why?I'm running cable so there's most definitely a signal. Everything isdefinitely hooked up correctly. Has anyone else here had experience withthis particular model? Is it one that can only be fixed by taking a hammerto it? :-)Thanks for any ideas y'all might have; I welcome any and every. Meantime,methinks me should quell the growling of my stomach. :-)Cheers,Lee :-)(Still licking her lips from all the pirate party left-overs.)Do not walk behind me, | Lee StormI may not care to lead; | N2FGCDo not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.netWalk beside me, and be my friend. 







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Sep 19 17:11:07 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:11:07 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
In-Reply-To: <BAY138-W64E77800133753266B623B24E0@phx.gbl>
References: <A4589263042B427FA6BB87AEBBF5CE70@FRODO> <BAY138-W64E77800133753266B623B24E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <02d201c91a7a$b561d630$20258290$@com>

You don't need a box, no. However, if your cable service broadcast any
unscrambled digital-only stations as Comcast does in my area, you need a
digital tuner to see those. 

My analog set gets about 61 channels, but my digital gets at least 120 and
that's just a wire directly to the TV. The other 300 + channels are
scrambled and not part of the basic package, you need a Comcast / Moterola
box and subscription to tiers for that.

So need, no -- help, maybe.

md

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Truslow
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:05 AM
To: hpfgu-otchatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question


According to the Feds you don't need a box with cable.
http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html 
http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq29
Does the DTV transition affect TV sets that are connected to cable services?
No. If you subscribe to cable service, the DTV transition should not affect
any TV sets that are connected to your cable services. The DTV transition
applies only to full-power broadcast television stations - stations that use
the public airwaves to transmit their programming to viewers through a
broadcast antenna.



 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me

To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.comFrom: n2fgc at arrl.netDate


I just got one of these TV converters, a Magnavox TB100MW9. I installed
thething and tried to do a set-up and get the words, "No Signal."
Duh--why?I'm running cable so there's most definitely a signal. Everything
isdefinitely hooked up correctly. Has anyone else here had experience
withthis particular model? Is it one that can only be fixed by taking a
hammerto it? :-)Thanks for any ideas y'all might have; I welcome any and
every. Meantime,methinks me should quell the growling of my stomach.
:-)Cheers,Lee :-)(Still licking her lips from all the pirate party
left-overs.)Do not walk behind me, | Lee StormI may not care to lead; |
N2FGCDo not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)I may not care to follow; |
n2fgc at optonline.netWalk beside me, and be my friend. 







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------

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Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
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Yahoo! Groups Links







From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 17:41:46 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:41:46 -0000
Subject: D2A TV Converters Again--Technical Question
In-Reply-To: <02d201c91a7a$b561d630$20258290$@com>
Message-ID: <gb0o8q+k3s3@eGroups.com>

Cabal wrote:
>
> You don't need a box, no. However, if your cable service broadcast
any unscrambled digital-only stations as Comcast does in my area, you
need a digital tuner to see those. 
> 
> My analog set gets about 61 channels, but my digital gets at least
120 and that's just a wire directly to the TV. The other 300 +
channels are scrambled and not part of the basic package, you need a
Comcast / Moterola box and subscription to tiers for that.
> 
> So need, no -- help, maybe.

Carol responds:

I don't know about Lee, but I don't know what you mean by "tiers." (By
"Moterola," do you mean "Motorola"?)

In my case, I subscribe to Comcast Basic Cable and don't want any
extra channels. Sixty is more than enough for someone who grew up with
five or six! I have a cable box, so I'm assuming that I don't need a
cable box even though I have an analog TV (which is odd since I bought
in new in 2007!).

Anyway, I'm assuming that I don't need to do anything and that there's
no advantage to me in buying a converter box. (Ditto for Lee if she
already has a cable box rather than cable directly connected to the TV.)

Carol, wishing that technology didn't rule her life




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 17:46:44 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:46:44 -0000
Subject: "Rafe" Fiennes question for Brits
Message-ID: <gb0oi4+nk4s@eGroups.com>

Just out of curiosity, is "Rafe" a nickname for Ralph (used by Ralph
Fiennes and others) or is it the normal pronunciation of the name
Ralph in England/Britain? (I seem to recall the spelling "Rafe" in use
by historical persons in fifteenth-century England but can't recall
specific examples at the moment.)

Carol, who just saw a preview for "The Duchess" with Ralph Fiennes and
Kiera Knightley and is looking forward to seeing it




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 19 21:07:31 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:07:31 -0000
Subject: "Rafe" Fiennes question for Brits
In-Reply-To: <gb0oi4+nk4s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb14aj+94nr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity, is "Rafe" a nickname for Ralph (used by Ralph
> Fiennes and others) or is it the normal pronunciation of the name
> Ralph in England/Britain? 

Geoff:
It is one of two ways in which it is pronounced and, yes, it is the
one used by Ralph Fiennes. Another well known "Rafe" was Ralph
Vaughan-Williams, the famous English composer.

The other way in which it is pronounced is as it is spelt - ie "Ralf".





From leekaiwen at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 01:32:31 2008
From: leekaiwen at yahoo.com (C John Edward Culver)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:32:31 -0000
Subject: Caltholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gavc9b+7a85@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb1jrf+p5f5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>I wanted to
> know why the Catholic church considered itself universal. (I suppose
> it goes back to the time when Roman Catholic and Christian were
> virtually anonymous, if you didn't count Greek Orthodox, which
> probably didn't have that name yet.)

Exactly. The term itself, "catholic" (from Greek "kata" and "holos" --
"according to the whole", or "universal") dates to a letter from
Ignatius in the second century, predating even the Apostles' Creed. So
yes, it comes from a time when the Catholic Church was truly catholic,
and the term was a theological point, not a name.

CJ




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 03:00:30 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:00:30 -0000
Subject: "Rafe" Fiennes question for Brits
In-Reply-To: <gb14aj+94nr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb1p0e+10tbf@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, is "Rafe" a nickname for Ralph (used by
Ralph Fiennes and others) or is it the normal pronunciation of the
name Ralph in England/Britain? 
> 
> Geoff:
> It is one of two ways in which it is pronounced and, yes, it is the
one used by Ralph Fiennes. Another well known "Rafe" was Ralph
Vaughan-Williams, the famous English composer.
> 
> The other way in which it is pronounced is as it is spelt - ie "Ralf".
>
Carol:
Thanks, Geoff. I do know that Ralph Fiennes pronounces his name as
"Rafe." That's why I asked the question. Just to be clear, you're
saying that "Rafe" is not a nickname for Ralph but an alternative
pronunciation, just as the name Stephen can be pronounced as "Steven"
or "Steffen"? (And, for all I know, "Geoffrey" may be pronounced as
"Jeffrey" or "Joffrey" <smile>.)

Which is the more common pronunciation of Ralph, and is it regional,
do you think? (Ralph is pronounced only as "Ralf" in the U.S. to my
knowledge, but there may be exceptions that I'm not aware of, not
counting Rafer Johnson, who is not a Ralph.)

Thanks,
Carol, curious as always about British/American differences




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 03:04:58 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:04:58 -0000
Subject: Catholic Array of Deeply Held Opinions ...
In-Reply-To: <gb1jrf+p5f5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb1p8q+oofa@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier wrote:
> >I wanted to know why the Catholic church considered itself
universal. (I suppose it goes back to the time when Roman Catholic and
Christian were virtually anonymous, if you didn't count Greek
Orthodox, which probably didn't have that name yet.)

CJ responded: 
> Exactly. The term itself, "catholic" (from Greek "kata" and "holos"
-- "according to the whole", or "universal") dates to a letter from
Ignatius in the second century, predating even the Apostles' Creed. So
yes, it comes from a time when the Catholic Church was truly catholic,
and the term was a theological point, not a name.

Carol again:

Thanks. that's more or less what I thought, only I didn't know about
Ignatius.

"Virtually anonymous"? Did I really write that? Sheesh! I meant
"virtually synonymous," of course.

Carol, thanking CJ for politely ignoring my typo or senior moment or
whatever it was




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Sep 20 05:50:25 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:50:25 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "Rafe" Fiennes question for Brits
In-Reply-To: <gb0oi4+nk4s@eGroups.com>
References: <gb0oi4+nk4s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1123E6C9CD4A403CA048F4AB4439FAA9@FRODO>

[Carol]:
| Just out of curiosity, is "Rafe" a nickname for Ralph (used by Ralph
| Fiennes and others) or is it the normal pronunciation of the name

[Lee]:
I would have thought it's for Rafiel, as in the Angel Rafiel.

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep 20 06:40:50 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:40:50 -0000
Subject: "Rafe" Fiennes question for Brits
In-Reply-To: <gb1p0e+10tbf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb25ti+eg28@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol earlier:
> > >
> > > Just out of curiosity, is "Rafe" a nickname for Ralph (used by
> Ralph Fiennes and others) or is it the normal pronunciation of the
> name Ralph in England/Britain? 
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > It is one of two ways in which it is pronounced and, yes, it is the
> one used by Ralph Fiennes. Another well known "Rafe" was Ralph
> Vaughan-Williams, the famous English composer.
> > 
> > The other way in which it is pronounced is as it is spelt - ie "Ralf".
> >
> Carol:
> Thanks, Geoff. I do know that Ralph Fiennes pronounces his name as
> "Rafe." That's why I asked the question. Just to be clear, you're
> saying that "Rafe" is not a nickname for Ralph but an alternative
> pronunciation, just as the name Stephen can be pronounced as "Steven"
> or "Steffen"? (And, for all I know, "Geoffrey" may be pronounced as
> "Jeffrey" or "Joffrey" <smile>.)
> 
> Which is the more common pronunciation of Ralph, and is it regional,
> do you think? (Ralph is pronounced only as "Ralf" in the U.S. to my
> knowledge, but there may be exceptions that I'm not aware of, not
> counting Rafer Johnson, who is not a Ralph.)

Geoff:
Referring to Ralph, I have a feeling that it may be a class difference.  I 
think "Rafe" is a more middle- or upper-class pronunciation from the 
times I've met up with the name.

Stephen, in the UK, is always pronounced "Steven". "Steffen" is always 
used with the mainland European version - often often spelt as "Stefan".

Geoffrey and Jeffrey are pronounced the same way - Jeffrey is seen as 
the American form. Knowing me as a rather high-powered and possibly 
loquacious person, close friends are always highly amused when I tell 
them that my name is another form of Godfrey which is derived from 
the German "Gottfried" = "God's peace". As one of them put it: "I've 
never met a more incorrectly named person".
:-(






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep 20 08:25:29 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:25:29 -0000
Subject: JKR gives political donation
Message-ID: <gb2c1p+7o1k@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
BBC Breakfast reported this morning that JKR has given a donation of 
?1m to the Labour Party, praising their work with eliminating child 
poverty.

More information is available at www.bbc.co.uk




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Sep 20 12:42:20 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:42:20 -0000
Subject: "Rafe" Fiennes question for Brits
In-Reply-To: <gb1p0e+10tbf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb2r3c+4fvf@eGroups.com>


> Carol: 
> Which is the more common pronunciation of Ralph, and is it regional,
> do you think? (Ralph is pronounced only as "Ralf" in the U.S. to my
> knowledge, but there may be exceptions that I'm not aware of, not
> counting Rafer Johnson, who is not a Ralph.)
> 
> Thanks,
> Carol, curious as always about British/American differences


Potioncat:
I'll throw a spanner in the works---or a monkey wrench if you prefer--
 I have a cousin Ralph who goes by Rafe. In fact, that's what he 
called. Any reference to him would go something like this, "Our 
cousin Rafe, well his name was Ralph but we called him Rafe..."

I always thought 'Rafe' must be a Southern/county/regional version. 
Now I think it's it more closely tied to our British roots. Which may 
really be the same thing. (Most Southerners think they are British.)

I'm not sure if I ever met Cousin 'Rafe' his name is 'Ralf' but we 
called him 'Rafe'. I think he was/is of my father's generation which 
would put him at 80 at the youngest.









From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 20 20:07:41 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:07:41 -0000
Subject: Buzz
Message-ID: <gb3l6d+dbnh@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37765>:

<< "Miz" has a vowel. "Mz" doesn't. Make an "m" sound and a "z"
without an "ih" (short i) sound and you'll hear the difference. "Mz"
more or less rhymes with "buzz." >>

"Mrs" and "Mr' don't have vowels in their spelling either. More
exciting, Mrs doesn't have a R in its pronunciation ("Mississ", like
Mississippi).

The small sound represented by "i" could be "short i" or it could be
schwa. Like the second syllable of the word 'postman' is often
pronounced with schwa, and back in the late 60s-early 70s several
feminist lexicographers wanted to spell it 'phonetically' as POSTMUN.
To me, the small sound represented by "u", "uh", is always "short u"
and never schwa, so looking at POSTMUN is to me just weird. If I were
asked to write 'postman' 'phonetically', I would write 'postmin'.

As for the word 'buzz', it doesn't sound like the noise that bees
make, zzzzz, a kind of whirring sound, resembling a purr in its
vowel-less-ness. I can't pronounce either of them.

Geoff replied to Carol in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37767>:

<< Pretend you're a bee seeking pollen and humming at the same time.
:-) >>

Like Dumbledore?

Actually, the bee seeks nectar and gets pollen by accident.






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep 20 20:31:42 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:31:42 -0000
Subject: Buzz
In-Reply-To: <gb3l6d+dbnh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb3mje+hil8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> 
wrote:

> Geoff replied to Carol in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37767>:
> 
> << Pretend you're a bee seeking pollen and humming at the same time.
> :-) >>

Catlady: 
> Like Dumbledore?

> Actually, the bee seeks nectar and gets pollen by accident.

Geoff:
I hope you're not getting waspish with me.... all these stinging remarks.
:-(




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 05:58:11 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 05:58:11 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
Message-ID: <gb4npj+plip@eGroups.com>

Since Main, Movies and OT are pretty quiet, I thought I'd talk about
an issue that's been gnawing at me.

Recently, I went to Oregon's Shakespeare Festival where I saw Othello
along with the best Midsummer's I've seen (five total) as well as a
horrible contemporary play.  

I have never seen nor read Othello prior my most recent trip to the
Festival nor did I ever hear anyone discuss its plot or its ending. 
Sometime in the first two acts of Othello, I got the distinct
impression that Iago had a thing for Othello.  

The following passage's general interpretation is that Iago thinks
Othello has slept with his (Iago's) wife, Emilia:
Iago: '... I hate the Moor:
And it is thought abroad, that 'twixt my sheets
He has done my office: I know not if't be true;
But I, for mere suspicion in that kind,
Will do as if for surety. He holds me well;'

Instead of 'office' I heard 'orifice'.  I know.  It's a stretch.  But
Shakespeare is a tricky willie when it comes to language. So that
changed the meaning. 

I hate the Moor:
I'll come back to this.

'And it is thought abroad,'
This could be paranoia on Iago's part, fearing that others will
know/suspect his sexuality, that twixt his sheets Othello has done his
orifice:.

'I know not if't be true;'
I conjecture that this refers back to 'I hate the Moor:'

'But I, for mere suspicion in that kind,
Will do as if for surety.'
Iago suspects that he loves Othello (and perhaps hates himself for it)

'He holds me well;'
I think it could be easily inferred that Iago enjoys being cuddled by
Othello.  Though it also means, Othello holds Iago in high regard. 
That Shakespeare and his double meanings!

Later on in the middle of the play, Iago implies to Othello that his
(Othello's) wife may be cheating on him.  Iago seeing that Othello is
hurt by this, he says:
... but I am much to blame;
I humbly do beseech you of your pardon
For too much loving you.

Othello replies:
I am bound to thee for ever.

Gay marriage!!! Yeah!!!  Who knew Shakespeare celebrated Pride?

While I suspect Iago is gay (and hates that part of himself), I don't
think Othello is.  Rather, Othello had sex with Iago because there was
a lack of women on the battlefield and can therefore separate that
part of his sexuality.  

Poor Iago thought himself a villain, but he was just a victim of
suppressed sexuality.  Emilia was a beard!

just thinking,
Kemper







From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 21 11:00:30 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:00:30 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb4npj+plip@eGroups.com>
References: <gb4npj+plip@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4713285A94E54CF39CDE64BFD555DCFA@FRODO>

I hope your whole interpretation thing is a joke, Kemper.  I'm afraid I
don't see the homosexual trend of which you speak.  Phrases like loving
someone well is more like a brotherly love, IMO, or a truly deep
friendship...perhaps one-sided but very deep on the part of the giver.

Peace,

Lee (Scratching head and wondering why people always take the worst line of
interpretation, IMHO.)
[Kemper, Originally]:
| Since Main, Movies and OT are pretty quiet, I thought I'd talk about
| an issue that's been gnawing at me.
| 
| Recently, I went to Oregon's Shakespeare Festival where I saw Othello
| along with the best Midsummer's I've seen (five total) as well as a
| horrible contemporary play.  
| 
| I have never seen nor read Othello prior my most recent trip to the
| Festival nor did I ever hear anyone discuss its plot or its ending. 
| Sometime in the first two acts of Othello, I got the distinct
| impression that Iago had a thing for Othello.  
| 
| The following passage's general interpretation is that Iago thinks
| Othello has slept with his (Iago's) wife, Emilia:
| Iago: '... I hate the Moor:
| And it is thought abroad, that 'twixt my sheets
| He has done my office: I know not if't be true;
| But I, for mere suspicion in that kind,
| Will do as if for surety. He holds me well;'
| 
| Instead of 'office' I heard 'orifice'.  I know.  It's a stretch.  But
| Shakespeare is a tricky willie when it comes to language. So that
| changed the meaning. 
| 
| I hate the Moor:
| I'll come back to this.
| 
| 'And it is thought abroad,'
| This could be paranoia on Iago's part, fearing that others will
| know/suspect his sexuality, that twixt his sheets Othello has done his
| orifice:.
| 
| 'I know not if't be true;'
| I conjecture that this refers back to 'I hate the Moor:'
| 
| 'But I, for mere suspicion in that kind,
| Will do as if for surety.'
| Iago suspects that he loves Othello (and perhaps hates himself for it)
| 
| 'He holds me well;'
| I think it could be easily inferred that Iago enjoys being cuddled by
| Othello.  Though it also means, Othello holds Iago in high regard. 
| That Shakespeare and his double meanings!
| 
| Later on in the middle of the play, Iago implies to Othello that his
| (Othello's) wife may be cheating on him.  Iago seeing that Othello is
| hurt by this, he says:
| ... but I am much to blame;
| I humbly do beseech you of your pardon
| For too much loving you.
| 
| Othello replies:
| I am bound to thee for ever.
| 
| Gay marriage!!! Yeah!!!  Who knew Shakespeare celebrated Pride?
| 
| While I suspect Iago is gay (and hates that part of himself), I don't
| think Othello is.  Rather, Othello had sex with Iago because there was
| a lack of women on the battlefield and can therefore separate that
| part of his sexuality.  
| 
| Poor Iago thought himself a villain, but he was just a victim of
| suppressed sexuality.  Emilia was a beard!
| 
| just thinking,
| Kemper




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 14:10:34 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:10:34 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <4713285A94E54CF39CDE64BFD555DCFA@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gb5kkq+ucm3@eGroups.com>

> Lee:
> I hope your whole interpretation thing is a joke, Kemper.  I'm afraid 
> I don't see the homosexual trend
> of which you speak.  Phrases like loving
> someone well is more like a brotherly love, IMO, or a truly deep
> friendship...perhaps one-sided but very deep on the part of the giver.
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Lee (Scratching head and wondering why people always take the worst
line of interpretation, IMHO.)

Kemper:
Well... though I may be wrong, I'm not joking.  It was my initial,
clean (never hearing or reading ways to interpret the play) hit on the
the play.  I believe that deep loving friendships exist without
suggestion of homosexuality (Samwise Gamgee and Frodo Baggins).  

I do think Othello thinks Iago a deep fried rather than a lover.  And
this in part or perhaps whole is what I think drives Iago into
villainy though he blames it on being passed for a promotion which is
self deception on Iago's part.

Again, I may be wrong.  But then, on Main I suggested that DD could be
gay a year before DH came out.  So I think my gaydar in literature can
pick up a blip from a soliloquy or a flamboyantly cut suit of plum
velvet. 

pax,
Kemper




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 21 15:51:53 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:51:53 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb5kkq+ucm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb5qip+sbfq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor" <kempermentor at ...> wrote:

Kemper: 
> I do think Othello thinks Iago a deep fried rather than a lover.  And
> this in part or perhaps whole is what I think drives Iago into
> villainy though he blames it on being passed for a promotion which is
> self deception on Iago's part.

Geoff:
A deep fried what?.....    Moor?

Or could you mean a dear friend and you've had an attack of 
the Nargles on your keyboard?






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 16:11:10 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:11:10 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb5qip+sbfq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb5rmu+dl5h@eGroups.com>


> Kemper (apparently up too early to write) wrote: 
> I do think Othello thinks Iago a deep fried rather than a lover.  
 
> Geoff:
> A deep fried what?.....    Moor?
> 
> Or could you mean a dear friend and you've had an attack of 
> the Nargles on your keyboard?

Kemper:
Could be the Nargles, but I blame the kid.  He wanted to be up at
5:30.  I asked for one more hour, but he would have it.  

So, yes, 'deep friend' though who wouldn't enjoy a deep fried Moor
with a side of couscous?

Kemper




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 16:32:06 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:32:06 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb4npj+plip@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb5su6+dj3b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor" 
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> Since Main, Movies and OT are pretty quiet, I thought I'd talk about
> an issue that's been gnawing at me.
> 
> Recently, I went to Oregon's Shakespeare Festival where I saw 
Othello
> along with the best Midsummer's I've seen (five total) as well as a
> horrible contemporary play.  
> 
> I have never seen nor read Othello prior my most recent trip to the
> Festival nor did I ever hear anyone discuss its plot or its ending. 
> Sometime in the first two acts of Othello, I got the distinct
> impression that Iago had a thing for Othello.  
<SNIP>
> 
>> Poor Iago thought himself a villain, but he was just a victim of
> suppressed sexuality.  Emilia was a beard!


Alla:

Heee, interesting. I did not get the impression, but I like your 
interpretation. I take it you did enjoy the festival?




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 21 17:41:49 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 21 Sep 2008 17:41:49 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/21/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1222018909.19.12633.m44@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 21, 2008
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
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To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
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From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep 21 17:46:45 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:46:45 -0000
Subject: DD's clothing ( was Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb5kkq+ucm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb61a5+1046q@eGroups.com>

 
> Kemper:
 
> Again, I may be wrong.  But then, on Main I suggested that DD could be
> gay a year before DH came out.  So I think my gaydar in literature can
> pick up a blip from a soliloquy or a flamboyantly cut suit of plum
> velvet. 


Potioncat:
The plum velvet suit drove me crazy. You thought "gay" I 
thought "pimp." I couldn't decide if JKR was telling us something about 
Dumbledore with that outfit, or if it was an example of wizards not 
understanding how Muggles dress. Plum (DD), bottle green (Harry), and 
burgandy(Ron) seem normal colors for wizards. But WW clothing isn't 
very consistent in the books and the movies confused it even more.

But anyway, congrats on your correct DD prediction.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 21 18:41:44 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:41:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb5kkq+ucm3@eGroups.com>
References: <4713285A94E54CF39CDE64BFD555DCFA@FRODO> <gb5kkq+ucm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <E49DBDDD0D81425D92F60E3B54D74D5F@FRODO>

[Kemper]:
| Again, I may be wrong.  But then, on Main I suggested that DD could be
| gay a year before DH came out.  So I think my gaydar in literature can
| pick up a blip from a soliloquy or a flamboyantly cut suit of plum
| velvet. 

[Lee]:
Well, there are a lot of "metro" types who wear flamboyant clothing and are
not homosexual.  As far as the whole DD being homosexual, I still can't see
it anywhere and if that's JKR's view of her character I have to live with
it.  However, in my personal mind, I probably will never see it so, just as
I can't see it in the Othello play.  Perhaps I'm just too conservative and
old-fashioned. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)
(Planning to take a nice little walk to celebrate the last gasp of summer.)
:-)




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 18:43:33 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:43:33 -0000
Subject: DD's clothing ( was Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb61a5+1046q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb64kl+e7hs@eGroups.com>


> Potioncat:
> The plum velvet suit drove me crazy. You thought "gay" I 
> thought "pimp." 

Kemper:
I may have thought 'pimp' to if the scene took place in the US circa
1973.  But 1950's London didn't fit the era to me.  I always thought
that DD could play a Muggle easily.  

:)

Kemper 




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 18:50:46 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:50:46 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb4npj+plip@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb6526+f0if@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote:
>
> Since Main, Movies and OT are pretty quiet, I thought I'd talk about
an issue that's been gnawing at me.
> 
> Recently, I went to Oregon's Shakespeare Festival where I saw
Othello along with the best Midsummer's I've seen (five total) as well
as a horrible contemporary play.  
> 
> I have never seen nor read Othello prior my most recent trip to the
> Festival nor did I ever hear anyone discuss its plot or its ending. 
> Sometime in the first two acts of Othello, I got the distinct
> impression that Iago had a thing for Othello.  
> 
> The following passage's general interpretation is that Iago thinks
> Othello has slept with his (Iago's) wife, Emilia:
> Iago: '... I hate the Moor:
> And it is thought abroad, that 'twixt my sheets
> He has done my office: I know not if't be true;
> But I, for mere suspicion in that kind,
> Will do as if for surety. He holds me well;'
> 
> Instead of 'office' I heard 'orifice'.  I know.  It's a stretch. 
But Shakespeare is a tricky willie when it comes to language. So that
changed the meaning. <snip>

Carol responds:

I saw "Othello" at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival in 1999 and didn't
get any such impression. It could, of course, have been another actor
playing the role, but I didn't hear "office" as "orifice" or any other
hints of homosexuality. Then, again, I'd read the play more than once,
and I have no "gaydar" whatever (unless, of course, I'm reading
Shakespeare's sonnets, where the competing attractions to the
beautiful young man and the Dark Lady are spelled out for me). One
critic (I can't rememeber which one at the moment, but it was decades
ago) referred to Iago as "a motiveless malignancy," and that's how I
think of him. Unlike Shakespeare's (completely unhistorical) Richard
III who is "determined to be a villain" because he's so foully
deformed or Macbeth, who's willing to commit murder because of his
ambition to be king, or Edmund in "King Lear" who is a bastard and
consequently has no rights of inheritance, or Shylock ("Hath not a Jew
eyes? . . . . If you prick us, do we not bleed?"), Iago has no clearly
identifiable motive (except jealousy and possible racial prejudice).
He's been passed over for a promotion, and he refers to Othello as
"the old black ram" in connection with Othello's beautiful young wife,
Desdemona, suggesting that Desdemona will soon grow tired of her and
look for someone younger. Iago is married, and he seems sexually
attracted to Desdemona rather than Othello, whose friend he pretends
to be. (Or maybe he once was a shallow sort of friend; it's been a
long time since I read or saw the play.)

BTW, I recommend reading the play, preferably an annotated edition by
critics *not* of the "queer theory" school of criticism. Please don't
attack me for the term: it's used by its own proponents. But you need
an ideologically neutral edition by a respected scholarly publisher. A
Norton Anthology of English Literature will do if you took any
university literature classes and kept your textbooks!

Carol, who thinks that Iago is a villain without justification and
that the "love" Othello feels for him and Iago pretends to feel in
return has no sexual component




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 18:55:59 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:55:59 -0000
Subject: DD's clothing ( was Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb61a5+1046q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb65bv+ivmm@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote:
>  
<snip> on Main I suggested that DD could be gay a year before DH came
out.  So I think my gaydar in literature can pick up a blip from a
soliloquy or a flamboyantly cut suit of plum velvet. 
> 
Potioncat responded:
> The plum velvet suit drove me crazy. You thought "gay" I thought
"pimp." <snip>

Carol adds:

I thought "flamboyant" and "eccentric." It seemed perfectly in keeping
with this taste in Wizard's robes, purple with gold stars and the
like. I always thought that JKR's model for the original descriptions
of DD was a kind of Disneyfied Merlin.

Carol, who would have liked to see the plum velvet suit in the film
version of HBP





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 19:09:03 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:09:03 -0000
Subject: DD's clothing ( was Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb64kl+e7hs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb664f+3ct3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor"
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Potioncat:
> > The plum velvet suit drove me crazy. You thought "gay" I 
> > thought "pimp." 
> 
> Kemper:
> I may have thought 'pimp' to if the scene took place in the US circa
1973.  But 1950's London didn't fit the era to me.  I always thought
that DD could play a Muggle easily.  
> 
> :)
> 
> Kemper
>
Carol responds:

It wouldn't be 1950s London. Tom Riddle left Hogwarts at eighteen in
1945, remember, so he would have been born December 31, 1926, and
would have turned eleven on December 31, 1937. Dumbledore's visit must
have taken place in the summer of 1938. During the Depression era,
that suit would really have stood out!

BTW, I agree that DD could have played a Muggle easily even without
resorting to Polyjuice Potion or Transfiguration beyond a temporary
shaving spell and haircut that could be magically reversed. Why did he
choose to stand out? i guess he figured that, with his long hair and
beard, he might as well wear a flamboyant suit to match. He was stared
at, but not as much as he would have been if he'd worn Wizard's robes
or an outfit like Bob Ogden's striped bathing suit and spats.

Carol, fearing that the movie version has moved the scene to the 1950s
and made Severus Snape, Lucius Malfoy, and Regulus black
contemporaries of Tom Riddle




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 19:11:57 2008
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:11:57 -0000
Subject: DD's clothing ( was Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb64kl+e7hs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb669t+q7io@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor"
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:

> I may have thought 'pimp' to if the scene took place in the US circa
> 1973.  But 1950's London didn't fit the era to me.


zanooda:  

Didn't this scene take place in the 30's :-)?







From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 21 20:49:56 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:49:56 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb6526+f0if@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb6c1k+v0v9@eGroups.com>

Carol:
<SNIP>
Then, again, I'd read the play more than once,
and I have no "gaydar" whatever (unless, of course, I'm reading
Shakespeare's sonnets, where the competing attractions to the
beautiful young man and the Dark Lady are spelled out for me). 
<SNIP>


Alla:

Hee, funny. I saw a play yesterday where this theme was played out very 
nicely. Although author made this beautiful young man Marlow's lover 
too.





From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 21 22:44:39 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:44:39 -0000
Subject: Iago
Message-ID: <gb6ion+5bk0@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37782>:

<< I got the distinct impression that Iago had a thing for Othello.
The following passage's general interpretation is that Iago thinks
Othello has slept with his (Iago's) wife, Emilia:
Iago: '... I hate the Moor:
And it is thought abroad, that 'twixt my sheets
He has done my office: '(snip)

Instead of 'office' I heard 'orifice'. I know. It's a stretch. But
Shakespeare is a tricky willie when it comes to language. >>

To me, it seems that more important to know the usage of the word
'orifice' in that turn of 16th to 17th century era. Did any people
besides anatomists use the term 'bodily orifices', and was it well
enough known to the common theater-goers that hearing the word
'orifice' would have rung that bell for them? Not to mention the usage
of the word 'done'.

<http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=orifice> says:
<< 1541, from M.Fr. orifice "the opening of a wound" (14c.), from L.
orificium "an opening," lit. "mouth-making," from os (gen. oris)
"mouth" + facere "make" >> 

Lee Storm replied to Kemper in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37783>:

<< Phrases like loving someone well is more like a brotherly love,
IMO, or a truly deep friendship... (snip) wondering why people always
take the worst line of interpretation, IMHO.) >>

Lee, why is Kemper's suggestion that << Poor Iago thought himself a
villain, but he was just a victim of suppressed sexuality. Emilia was
a beard! >> a *worse* line of interpretation than the one Carol quoted
in the post I reference next, "a motiveless malignancy"?

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37792>: 

<< he refers to Othello as "the old black ram" in connection with
Othello's beautiful young wife, Desdemona, suggesting that Desdemona
will soon grow tired of her and look for someone younger. Iago is
married, and he seems sexually attracted to Desdemona rather than
Othello >>

It is difficult for me to understand motiveless evil. I've never
understood why Efnysien threw his nephew Gwern into the fire. I
haven't read Othello since high school and I don't remember it, so I
don't know what I think Shakespeare meant for Iago. 

Just in general, possible motives for conspiring against a person
include feeling that one has been insulted by that person and racial
prejudice, as you mentioned, but also a whole zoo of love-gone-wrong
scenarios: the person I love cheated on me, the person I love broke up
with me, the person I love rejected me... 

So if Mr A murdered Mr and Mrs B, it could be that Mr A was infatuated
with Mrs B, thus hated her for rejecting him and hated Mr B for having
her, and it also could be that Mr A was infatuated with Mr B and felt
the same hatred for the inamorato who had rejected him and the person
preferred by the inamorato.

It gets more complicated if self-directed homophobia is thrown into
the mix. Mr A doesn't want to admit to himself that he fancies Mr B,
so he hates Mr B for making him feel feelings he doesn't want to feel,
but he doesn't even want to admit to himself why he hates Mr B so he
makes up some other reason ... in our culture, a man might hate a
woman because he's attracted to her, but he wouldn't so need to
conceal the reason from himself unless  he were kind of obsessive
about celibacy.





From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 21 22:49:52 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:49:52 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <E49DBDDD0D81425D92F60E3B54D74D5F@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gb6j2g+9tk4@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37784>:

<< on Main I suggested that DD could be gay a year before DH came out.
So I think my gaydar in literature can pick up a blip from a soliloquy
or a flamboyantly cut suit of plum velvet. >>

And Lee Storm replied in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37790>:

<< Well, there are a lot of "metro" types who wear flamboyant clothing
and are not homosexual. >>

Before Beau Brummel in the early 19th century, it was at least as
normal for men to dress flamboyantly as for women. Think of a king
wearing a shining golden crown and a bright red velvet robe trimmed
with ermine fur and gold embroidery. It's not exactly a gray business
suit.

For one thing, flamboyant clothing showed off their wealth. Most
people then couldn't afford to dress flamboyantly -- before synthetic
dyes were invented, colorful clothing was very expensive, and in those
days all the cloth was hand-spun and hand-woven. Thinking of the
modern prices of hand-spun and hand-woven cloth, people on a budget
wouldn't want too many features, like dagged sleeves, that use up
cloth just for decoration. 

It also was supposed to attract people's attention. If power is that
people do what you tell them, the first step is to get their attention
so that they notice that you are giving them a command. Attracting a
person's attention is also helpful for seducing that person, as in the
traditional explanation of the lion's main, the peacock's tail, and so
many species of birds where the males have bright colors and the
females are dirt colored.

Brummel got the idea that he could attract people's attention, stand
out against the colorful kaleidoscope crowd of rich people at the
upper class parties  he attended, by dressing entirely in plain black,
simple but perfectly tailored. It was so effective that the other men
started to copy him.

It was in the air around then. IIRC synthetic coal-tar dyes were
invented in the 18th century. Then the French Revolution and Napoleon
swept in a new fashion that was supposed to look like Greek and Roman
statues. Women wore pure white dresses to look like marble statues
(and to demonstrate their wealth by implying how many laundresses they
employed) and got rid of most of their whalebone and steel
undergarments so their draperies would flow rather than being held
rigid. Men wore tight buff-colored breeches to look nude. A first
effort stop being colorful.

That the established rule took hold, of men wearing black and grey,
and indigo in clothes intended for physical labor, while women wear
colors, has something to do with the social order of the Industrial
Revolution. Before the Industrial Revolution, ordinary men and women
were farmers and artisans. They both worked, they worked at home, the
home was a unit of production as well as a unit of consumption. With
the Industrial Revolution, the Victorians came up with this ideology
in which men worked outside the home and got money, while women were
supposed to stay in the home and be too "pure" to deal with money. 

Therefore, men no longer had to try to attract women's attention, no
longer needed to seem handsome or charismatic or physically strong;
they just had to sit there and choose among all the young women trying
desperately to attract a man, any man, as long as he had a job.





From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 21 23:28:56 2008
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:28:56 -0000
Subject: Plum Velvet Suit
Message-ID: <gb6lbo+q9nq@eGroups.com>

Kemper wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37784>:

<< on Main I suggested that DD could be gay a year before DH came out.
So I think my gaydar in literature can pick up a blip from a soliloquy
or a flamboyantly cut suit of plum velvet. >>

To which Potioncat replied in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37789>:

<< I couldn't decide if JKR was telling us something about
Dumbledore with that outfit, or if it was an example of wizards not
understanding how Muggles dress. Plum (DD), bottle green (Harry), and
burgandy (Ron) seem normal colors for wizards. >>

And Kemper replied in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37791>:

<< I always thought that DD could play a Muggle easily. >>

To which, Carol replied in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/37794>:

<< I agree that DD could have played a Muggle easily even without
resorting to Polyjuice Potion or Transfiguration beyond a temporary
shaving spell and haircut that could be magically reversed. Why did he
choose to stand out? i guess he figured that, with his long hair and
beard, he might as well wear a flamboyant suit to match. He was stared
at, but not as much as he would have been if he'd worn Wizard's robes
or an outfit like Bob Ogden's striped bathing suit and spats. >>

Potioncat, maybe it was both. Maybe DD knew a lot more about Muggle
clothing than did  Bob Ogden, but didn't know as much as he thought he
did, so he filled in the gaps in his knowledge with his
wizard-culture-influenced idea of what would look normal to Muggles,
so that he created what Harry recognized as a suit, but one flamboyant
in cut, color, and fabric.

(I have been told (but don't know if it's true: where's Pip!Squeak
when I need her?) that costume designers for period movies and plays
have a similar problem: they want some amount of accuracy in the
period costumes, but not so much that the modern audience's response
to the sight of the beautiful actress is "What an ugly dress!")

Perhaps he could be excused for gaps in his knowledge of Muggle
fashions because he's so old and Muggle fashions change so fast. Maybe
some of the cut of his suit was not intended as flamboyance, but came
from his memory of Muggle clothing he wore in the first decade of the
20th century.  I can't make up an excuse like that for plum velvet,
unless he was confusing adult men's clothing with young boys's Little
Lord  Fauntleroy suits.

On another hand, Carol, maybe it's related to that QWC remark about
wizards being unable to resist showing off to each other when they
gather together. Maybe DD was such a Muggle-lover that he even wanted
to show off to Muggles. After all, whether or not he had intended to
attract attention, once he noticed that he was drawing stares, he
could have gone away and changed his clothes if he didn't want stares.

By the way, Carol, do we know that there is a temporary and reversible
beard-removal and hair-shortening spell? Is there canon that wizards'
hair is not just as resistant to magic as the misshapen lenses (and
corneas?) of wizards' eyes.

Kemper! Are you suggesting that that was a suit he already owned, for
purposes of hanging out in Muggle gay bars?





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 01:10:06 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:10:06 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb6j2g+9tk4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb6r9e+c37p@eGroups.com>

Catlady wrote:
<snip> 
> Before Beau Brummel in the early 19th century, it was at least as
normal for men to dress flamboyantly as for women. <snip>
> 
> Brummel got the idea that he could attract people's attention, stand
out against the colorful kaleidoscope crowd of rich people at the
upper class parties  he attended, by dressing entirely in plain black,
simple but perfectly tailored. It was so effective that the other men
started to copy him. <snip>

Carol responds:
Interesting. I was under the impression that the black suit was an
innovation of Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's consort). (the formal
black frock coat was certainly Prince Albert's idea; it was named
after him.) British soldiers wore red coats until 1885 when someone
finally figured out that a less conspicuous uniform would be advantageous!

Speaking of black, between men's tuxedos and women's "little black
dresses," formal parties and even the Emmy awards look more like
funerals than celebrations. And this year's junior fashions, designed
for high school and college girls (I was shopping for a gift the other
day) were all drab green and brown. There was nothing I'd have been
caught dead in at eighteen or twenty. 

Carol, hoping that someone will bring back color, please!






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 01:27:36 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:27:36 -0000
Subject: Plum Velvet Suit
In-Reply-To: <gb6lbo+q9nq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb6sa8+rmfm@eGroups.com>

Catlady wrote: 
> By the way, Carol, do we know that there is a temporary and reversible
> beard-removal and hair-shortening spell? Is there canon that wizards'
> hair is not just as resistant to magic as the misshapen lenses (and
> corneas?) of wizards' eyes.

Carol responds:
Well, Harry restored his cut hair to its normal length as a child with
accidental magic, so I assume that there's some comparable controlled
spell. We also have aging potions that can, when combined with some
spell of Dumbledore's relating to an age line, instantly create a
beard. I also assume (though there's no proof of it) that most male
wizards routinely use a spell rather than a razor like the one harry
got for his seventeenth birthday (and never used, to my knowledge) to
shave every morning. It seems more likely that Witches and Wizards who
peel potatoes (and satsumas) using magic would cut their hair with
magic rather than using scissors or a razor of some sort (speculation,
I realize). And appearance can certainly be changed using magic, not
just through Polyjuice (or Metamorphmgic) but through Transfiguration
such as Hermione used on Ron in DH to disguise him as "Dragomir
Sespard." She makes his hair long and wavy; gives him a thick brown
beard, mustache, and eyebrows; removes his freckles; and shortens and
broadens his nose (DH Am. ed. 523). If Hermione can do that, DD can
certainly vanish his beard, shorten his hair, and magically restore
his appearance to normal when he's finished.

Carol, who suspects that Snape magically keeps his hair the same
length and never visits a barber





From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Mon Sep 22 03:31:03 2008
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:31:03 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <E49DBDDD0D81425D92F60E3B54D74D5F@FRODO>
References: <4713285A94E54CF39CDE64BFD555DCFA@FRODO> <gb5kkq+ucm3@eGroups.com>
	 <E49DBDDD0D81425D92F60E3B54D74D5F@FRODO>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0809212031x75c805co5872c2c2160aec81@mail.gmail.com>

Lee:
> Perhaps I'm just too conservative and
> old-fashioned. :-)

No worries, Lee.  No one is going to call me "too conservative and
old-fashioned" and I still have never seen the homosexual Othella-Iago
angle.  I'm pretty enamoured with Iago as villain - find him
interesting in his own way - and have never seen this angle.
Different ...

~Ali, hoping everyone enjoys the last vestiges of summer tomorrow
(onward we march to the dying leaves of autumn and the impending
depression of winter)



From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 05:18:04 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:18:04 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb4npj+plip@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb79qc+n2tg@eGroups.com>

> Carol responds:
> ... I'd read the play more than once, and I have no "gaydar"
whatever (unless, of course, I'm reading Shakespeare' s sonnets, where
the competing attractions to the beautiful young man and the Dark Lady
are spelled out for me). ... Iago has no clearly identifiable motive
(except jealousy and possible racial prejudice). He's been passed over
for a promotion, and he refers to Othello as "the old black ram" in
connection with Othello's beautiful young wife, Desdemona, suggesting
that Desdemona will soon grow tired of her and look for someone
younger. Iago is married, and he seems sexually attracted to Desdemona
rather than Othello, whose friend he pretends to be. 

Kemper now:
I checked out a couple of sonnets and the fair youth is compared to a
rose and has the face of a woman.  He also has the best
characteristics of a women: gentle heart, non-fickle, bright eyes that
don't roll.  It is odd to me that he would compare a male friend in
such a way.  Shakespeare also says that a) he can't be with the youth
because the youth has a penis; or b) the youth is interested in women
and doesn't find Shakespeare attractive.

After reading Othello, I think it's b.  I don't think the youth had an
interest in Shakespeare.  I think Shakespeare had an eye for the youth
and treated the loss of plucking that rose as sour grapes.
Shakespeare does not want to experience these feelings.

Iago is Shakespeare's Jungian shadow. 


> Carol:
> BTW, I recommend reading the play, preferably an annotated edition
by critics *not* of the "queer theory" school of criticism. Please
don't attack me for the term: it's used by its own proponents. But you
need an ideologically neutral edition by a respected scholarly
publisher. A Norton Anthology of English Literature will do if you
took any university literature classes and kept your textbooks!

Kemper now:
I took Shakespeare in college.  We only read the plays and of the
tragedies only Macbeth (at OSF next year!!!) and King Lear. 
There was no talk that I recall about his sexuality, of course that
was nearly 20 years ago.  My text book was stolen (along with other of
my literature books! A pox on their house!!) some college summer.  I
do have a HUGE Shakespeare book, but it's not really handy and reading
it is physically tedious.


> Carol responds:
> It wouldn't be 1950s London. ... Dumbledore's visit must
have taken place in the summer of 1938. During the Depression era,
that suit would really have stood out!

Kemper now:
I knew that sounded wrong, but again, I blame the kid for waking up at
an ungodly hour.


> Carol:
> BTW, I agree that DD could have played a Muggle easily .... Why did
he choose to stand out? i guess he figured that, with his long hair
and beard, he might as well wear a flamboyant suit to match.

> Catlady:
> Kemper! Are you suggesting that that was a suit he already owned,
for purposes of hanging out in Muggle gay bars?

Kemper now:
I have an internal fanfic on the day DD went to the orphanage.  After
his meeting he went to a gay bar, but I imagine it more of a speakeasy
of sorts.  He meets a Muggle man.  They have a great conversation and
plan to meet up in a week.  DD leaves the bar and disapparates back to
Hogsmeade.  A week passes and he returns to the bar, but it is burned.
 He inquires about the Muggle only to discover that the man was
tortured and murdered.  DD goes to a newstand and asks for a paper. 
Not sure if that could've happened in London at the time, but I like
how it adds depth to DD's love (or lack of) life.  Tragic. Like Iago,
only different.


> Kemper earlier: 
> Instead of 'office' I heard 'orifice'. I know. It's a stretch. But
Shakespeare is a tricky willie when it comes to language.

> Catlady:
> To me, it seems that more important to know the usage of the word
'orifice' in that turn of 16th to 17th century era.

Kemper now:
I agree.  If this was a thesis, I'd research more.  But for now, I'm
just going with what I know.  I check out the online etymology of
orifice and office.  It wasn't very helpful.  Though both entries
suggest I '(see factitious)'.  Not super helpful either, but with
further research it might lead to 'office' being a nice play on 'orifice'.

Kemper




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 06:01:08 2008
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:01:08 -0000
Subject: Plum Velvet Suit
In-Reply-To: <gb6sa8+rmfm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gb7cb4+10v3n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> It seems more likely that Witches and Wizards who
> peel potatoes (and satsumas) using magic would cut their hair with
> magic rather than using scissors or a razor of some sort 
>(speculation,I realize).


zanooda:

Well, when Molly Weasley wanted to cut Bill's long hair in GoF, she
offered to do it "fingering her wand lovingly" :-). As she didn't
"finger lovingly" some scissors :-), I assumed that she intended to
shorten Bill's hair using magic. BTW, Molly has a thing about cutting
her sons' hair. In DH, she gives Charlie a haircut (with her wand
again :-)) right after he arrives from Romania for the wedding. HRH
heard some noise later that night and Ron suggested it was Charlie
sneaking off to regrow his hair :-).

 






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 17:05:20 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:05:20 -0000
Subject: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0809212031x75c805co5872c2c2160aec81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gb8j8g+5b8m@eGroups.com>

<snip>
> ~Ali, hoping everyone enjoys the last vestiges of summer tomorrow
(onward we march to the dying leaves of autumn and the impending
depression of winter)
>
Carol:
Or, if we're in southern Arizona, onward we march to cool nights when
we can turn off the air conditioner and the refreshing crispness of
winter! It's still in the 90s in the afternoons here and will push 100
tomorrow. A few leaves around here will change to yellow and fall off,
and fewer still will turn orange. We might get a powdering of snow in
February if we're lucky. (I treasure the memory of our single white
Christmas in 1989.) I do remember, though, that putting on tire chains
(which were legal in Flagstaff in the 1960s--don't know if they still
are) was no fun at all.

Carol, envying New Englanders and other northern types the beauty of
their autumn leaves and wishing everyone a happy fall!




From madammilliemarsh at yahoo.com.au  Tue Sep 23 06:21:44 2008
From: madammilliemarsh at yahoo.com.au (Alison)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:21:44 -0000
Subject: Bananas in Pyjamas - from Movies( Re: The Boy in the Striped Pajamas/Pyjamas)
Message-ID: <gba1to+mmce@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:


By the way, speaking of pyjamas---what was with 'Bananas in Pyjamas'? 
Was that British or Australian?

Alison :

Attempting to reply to this here since it doesn't relate to movies, and 
as this is the first time I've tried to move a topic across from 
somewhere else, if I've done it wrong, any and all advice would be 
appreciated.

For a bit of trivia : Bananas in Pyjamas was an Australian TV series 
aimed at the very young : we're talking babies to toddlers. Two men 
dressed up as bananas, wearing blue & white striped pyjamas and known 
respectively as B1 and B2. There was a catchy song that was always good 
to sing to babies and the merchandising always handy for presents.






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Sep 24 01:37:24 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:37:24 -0000
Subject: Another convertor box tech question
Message-ID: <gbc5kk+70io@eGroups.com>

Has anyone set up a converter box yet? Is there a way to control the TV 
and box with one (very simple) remote control?

My 92 year old aunt has problems learning new technology. Right now it 
takes 2 controllers to work the box and TV. Any ideas?

Potioncat




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 24 18:42:43 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:42:43 -0400
Subject: Second Follow-Up
Message-ID: <0AE5FECF27CD473FB8572049D855C0FE@FRODO>

And the smiles continue, there is no pain and the Doc is well-pleased.  I
got to drop one of my drops and cut back on another, so now it's one
3-times-a-day and one 4-times-a-day.  I hate that kind of scheduling!  Well,
next week, the 4-banger is reduced to three and that will be fine.

Rah-Rah!!  More Chocolate!  Another visit in three weeks and then I am done!
:-)

And since I don't have my pirate sword handy, <Lee Waves Wand>,  ACCIO DARK
CHOCOLATE!

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 20:09:42 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:09:42 -0000
Subject: Second Follow-Up
In-Reply-To: <0AE5FECF27CD473FB8572049D855C0FE@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gbe6q6+bd2g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm(God Is The Healing Force)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:

Lee :
> And the smiles continue, there is no pain and the Doc is well-pleased.  I
> got to drop one of my drops and cut back on another, so now it's one
> 3-times-a-day and one 4-times-a-day.  I hate that kind of scheduling!  Well,
> next week, the 4-banger is reduced to three and that will be fine.
> 
> Rah-Rah!!  More Chocolate!  Another visit in three weeks and then I am done!
> :-)
> 
> And since I don't have my pirate sword handy, <Lee Waves Wand>,  ACCIO DARK
> CHOCOLATE!
> 
> Cheers,

Geoff:
All sounds very good - especially the dark chocolate.

BTW, you know that in vernacular UK English, One meaning of "banger" 
is a sausage?  It almost sounds as if you are wrecking your diet (in its 
broadest term) rather than attacking the medicine!




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 24 21:04:20 2008
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:04:20 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Second Follow-Up
In-Reply-To: <gbe6q6+bd2g@eGroups.com>
References: <0AE5FECF27CD473FB8572049D855C0FE@FRODO> <gbe6q6+bd2g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <30FEFB90B64E489B9594A97EDD75DFA3@FRODO>

| Geoff:
| BTW, you know that in vernacular UK English, One meaning of "banger" 
| is a sausage?  It almost sounds as if you are wrecking your 
| diet (in its 
| broadest term) rather than attacking the medicine!

[Lee]:
<LOL>  Yes, I know about that meaning for "banger".  An American meaning can
be "Cylinder" in an engine, I believe.  Also, the basic calculator with the
four basic functions is sometimes referred to as a "4-banger."

Smile, and think chocolate!

Lee :-)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 06:34:25 2008
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:34:25 -0000
Subject: Second Follow-Up
In-Reply-To: <30FEFB90B64E489B9594A97EDD75DFA3@FRODO>
Message-ID: <gbfbdh+f1e9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" 
<n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> | Geoff:
> | BTW, you know that in vernacular UK English, One meaning of "banger" 
> | is a sausage?  It almost sounds as if you are wrecking your 
> | diet (in its 
> | broadest term) rather than attacking the medicine!
> 
> [Lee]:
> <LOL>  Yes, I know about that meaning for "banger".  An American meaning can
> be "Cylinder" in an engine, I believe.  Also, the basic calculator with the
> four basic functions is sometimes referred to as a "4-banger."
> 
> Smile, and think chocolate!

Geoff:
Seconded. Especaily at 07:35 in the morning.
:-)

With a machine link in mind, another meaning of "banger" in UK 
English is to refer to an old (and probably unreliable) car as "an 
old banger".

Over here, a basic calculator is usually just referred to as a "four-
function".




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 27 14:03:47 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:03:47 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter in the Hood
Message-ID: <gbleg3+i6oj@eGroups.com>

Has anyone seen this yet. I am not into rap music, but it is 
interesting...  I guess. (Seems a little R rated. But then I am an old 
lady.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkxpq8_eCM

Tonks




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 00:20:55 2008
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:20:55 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter in the Hood
In-Reply-To: <gbleg3+i6oj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbmil7+qegm@eGroups.com>

Tonks wrote:
>
> Has anyone seen this yet. I am not into rap music, but it is 
interesting...  I guess. (Seems a little R rated. But then I am an old
lady.)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkxpq8_eCM

Carol responds:

If you like You Tube HP videos (in this case, only slightly
suggestive), you may like "Snape's on a Plane":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDddgbGz3_4

(I don't think that Alec Hopkins, the kid who plays Young Severus
Snape, realized that his interview joke about "Snapes on a Plane" had
already been done, the difference being that his title uses "Snapes"
plural, whereas the You Tube video-really stills with a voiceover,
uses the contraction "Snape's" for "Snape is.")

Anyway, the video was done sometime before August 18, 2006, when
HBP!Snape looked like a pretty sinister figure, but there's still a
lot of mean teacher!Snape in the characterization. We didn't know then
that Snape didn't need a broom (much less a plane) to fly!

Carol, getting ready to watch the last installment of the cancelled
ABC series, "Wonderland," downloaded free from a German website






From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 04:07:46 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:07:46 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
Message-ID: <gbmvui+sk95@eGroups.com>

I know we can not talk about politics on here. But I am so happy 
tonight that I just had to share my day with you all.

Hillary came to Michigan today and I got a VIP pass to see her. I got 
to shake her hand too. She is great. TV doesn't do her justice. She is 
slim and trim. And what I just LOVE... she is short like me!! She is my 
age. She was wearing black pants and top and a yellow jacket with brown 
shoes with a slight heal. Her speech was great. I was very inspired by 
her to be a better person myself and to get in shape too!! 

I haven't been this excited about a political figure since Ted Kennedy 
came here 4 years ago. I had a ringside seat for him too, but didn't 
get to shake his hand because I didn't move fast enough.

Tonks_op
One very happy Auror!




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 06:07:07 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 06:07:07 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbmvui+sk95@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbn6ub+hfck@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
> I know we can not talk about politics on here. But I am so happy 
> tonight that I just had to share my day with you all.

Kemper now:
Who said we can't talk politics?  We just can't be b-holes about it. 
Glad to hear your excitement about seeing Hillary.  

Kemper, who's looking forward to the vp debate




From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 09:21:30 2008
From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:21:30 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbn6ub+hfck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbniaq+10ob8@eGroups.com>

  Tonks,

   Not talking politics, but glad to hear your excitement about 
meeting someone you admire so much.

  I know that excited feeling and I'm jealous of the handshake..  I 
don't know if many folks get it.. I've meet a few politicians that ran 
for "big offices" over the years (and atleast been really close to a 
number of them at events etc..)..and they simply have this type 
of "aura"--just some sort of magnetism that draws folks to them.(Hard 
to label it perhaps "charismatic" only begins to describe.. whether 
you agree, or disagree with their policy folks just relate or at least 
want to listen to and be around them irregardless of their political 
views...

  Few "celebrities" seem to have this trait...but it seems like most, 
if not all politicans do..uncanny!

DD
(who would just like to add that not all of the politicians I met were 
from the u.s.)







From doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 09:59:31 2008
From: doddiemoemoe at yahoo.com (doddiemoemoe)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:59:31 -0000
Subject: DD's clothing ( was Re: Othello (possible spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <gb664f+3ct3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbnki3+gj39@eGroups.com>

 DD responds:

  See there you were thinking 1930's or there abouts...and after 
reading about that suit all I could think about was what sort of 
time travel DD may have been involved in...  Especially since he 
appeared to be so nonchalant about time travel in POA; yet specific 
in his instructions towards Harry and Hermione...

   It may well give a great deal explanation to the "DD puppet 
master theory"...or it may not..and at the very least it does add to 
the entire purple suit mystery....LOL I had never had such an urge 
to write fan fic until now..(Albus Dumbledor and the Purple suit)..

  Sheesh...perhaps he time traveled just to be openly gay at some 
point in time...perhaps he played some sort of "pimp-daddy" that 
saved his "ho's"...or perhaps he time traveled and ended up on a 
197_ set of Starsky and Hutch and costumed himself as "Huggy Bear" 
and then suddenly realized he had an appointment in his own time 
line and went to meet the young Tom Riddle.(Although, more likely 
than not, he probably just went to the '60's and saw a Beetle's 
concert!) LOL

I dunno..but the more I go back and reread the series with a 
particular character in mind...the more I dread doing my "Dumbledore 
read through" because when I'm done, I'm not entirely sure I can 
leave time travel out of it when it comes to DD! (The least of it 
calls into question all the memories of DD that he allowed Harry to 
be exposed to..)

DD
(Who is not entirely sure that ALL the time turners were destroyed 
in OOP cannon given what we know of the battle scenes, but is 
entirely sure that time travel-DD would have ensured they were so 
Harry could succeed..Can you imagine if Voly's Moldys had access to 
a time turner, let alone D.Umbrige for example.)

 Carol posted:
> 
> It wouldn't be 1950s London. Tom Riddle left Hogwarts at eighteen 
in
> 1945, remember, so he would have been born December 31, 1926, and
> would have turned eleven on December 31, 1937. Dumbledore's visit 
must
> have taken place in the summer of 1938. During the Depression era,
> that suit would really have stood out!
> 
> BTW, I agree that DD could have played a Muggle easily even without
> resorting to Polyjuice Potion or Transfiguration beyond a temporary
> shaving spell and haircut that could be magically reversed. Why 
did he
> choose to stand out? i guess he figured that, with his long hair 
and
> beard, he might as well wear a flamboyant suit to match. He was 
stared
> at, but not as much as he would have been if he'd worn Wizard's 
robes
> or an outfit like Bob Ogden's striped bathing suit and spats.
> 
> Carol, fearing that the movie version has moved the scene to the 
1950s
> and made Severus Snape, Lucius Malfoy, and Regulus black
> contemporaries of Tom Riddle
>





From md at exit-reality.com  Sun Sep 28 14:30:15 2008
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:30:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbniaq+10ob8@eGroups.com>
References: <gbn6ub+hfck@eGroups.com> <gbniaq+10ob8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <017c01c92176$ba00c540$2e024fc0$@com>

We saw Bill last spring at our local high-school. We took the kids out of
class early so they would have the opportunity to see a living president and
know that these are real people (since they are 6 & 9) not just talking
heads on the TV and far from perfect (as I had an allusion to believe as a
child) although I was born under Nixon, my first memories are of Carter, but
more of Regan (I was actually surprised at 17 to find myself registering
democrat!)

Anyway, it's one of those rare moments (in a high school gym everyone is
only feet away) that you have to seize when the opportunity arises. I had
already jumped ship to Obama, so I felt a bit hypocritical, but Bill was the
first person I ever voted for and I believe the best president (easily) of
my lifetime (yes, I know, that's debatable) so I wasn't missing the chance.

Unfortunately all the candidates let us down. Hillary got too negative and
came across to me as if she felt "entitled" to the nomination. Now Obama is
unable to translate big ideas into small sentences (Gore and Kerry had the
same issue) although he's doing better than any Democrat except for Bill
Clinton, in over 30 years.

Of course everytime I hear Bill Clinton speak (when he's not flustered over
his wife losing a primary) he just reminds me why I voted for him and why I
think if every Democrat nominee studied him closely and emulated how he
communicates, we'd still have the one seated in the White House.

On to the VP debates, it's Gaff V Pit Bull.

md

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of doddiemoemoe
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:22 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hillary Clinton visit

  Tonks,

   Not talking politics, but glad to hear your excitement about 
meeting someone you admire so much.

  I know that excited feeling and I'm jealous of the handshake..  I 
don't know if many folks get it.. I've meet a few politicians that ran 
for "big offices" over the years (and atleast been really close to a 
number of them at events etc..)..and they simply have this type 
of "aura"--just some sort of magnetism that draws folks to them.(Hard 
to label it perhaps "charismatic" only begins to describe.. whether 
you agree, or disagree with their policy folks just relate or at least 
want to listen to and be around them irregardless of their political 
views...

  Few "celebrities" seem to have this trait...but it seems like most, 
if not all politicans do..uncanny!

DD
(who would just like to add that not all of the politicians I met were 
from the u.s.)





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From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 28 17:41:20 2008
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 28 Sep 2008 17:41:20 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/28/2008, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1222623680.10.70583.m53@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 28, 2008
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
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Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
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From juli17 at aol.com  Sun Sep 28 18:47:06 2008
From: juli17 at aol.com (julie)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:47:06 -0000
Subject: The most incredible personal library ever...
Message-ID: <gbojfa+g8bk@eGroups.com>

I just had to share this link I got from another list,
for those of us who love books in general (which is most
of us I think!)...

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-10/ff_walker?
currentPage=1


Julie, wondering when I can move in ;-)




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 20:36:43 2008
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:36:43 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <017c01c92176$ba00c540$2e024fc0$@com>
Message-ID: <gbopsr+ugac@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cabal" <md at ...> wrote:

> 
> Of course everytime I hear Bill Clinton speak (when he's not 
flustered over his wife losing a primary) he just reminds me why I 
voted for him and why I think if every Democrat nominee studied him 
closely and emulated how he communicates, we'd still have the one 
seated in the White House.


Tonks:

I watched Bill on Letterman last week and he was great. And soooo 
sexy looking, IMO. I have looked to Bill Clinton as a role model on 
how to speak. I tend to be blunt and to the point. Bill is so slick 
and smooth. He can say what needs to be said without insulting 
anyone and when necessary evading the question without it being 
obvious. I just love him!! I watched his body language very 
carefully. The one time he mentioned Obama he said with his hand on 
his heart "I am for Obama", but he looked away from the camera .. as 
if he could not say it and look the people in the eye. It's OK Bill, 
we understand... and some of us agree with you.

My new goal... to dance with Bill at Hillary inaugural ball! First I 
have to get really rich. What does it take to get an invite to 
something like that I wonder?? I've got 4 years to work on this.

Tonks




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep 28 22:10:37 2008
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:10:37 -0000
Subject: Civics Re: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbn6ub+hfck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbovct+5r7v@eGroups.com>

 
> Kemper now:
> Who said we can't talk politics?  We just can't be b-holes about it. 
> Glad to hear your excitement about seeing Hillary.  
> 
> Kemper, who's looking forward to the vp debate


Potioncat:
Both of my older kids helped at the inaugural parade 4 years ago. Our 
Boy Scout troop and Girl Scout troop (Cadet, Senior) provide service 
for the events. My daughter (18) is very excited about voting and has 
been carefully completing forms so she can vote while at college.

My youngest (14) is really looking forward to being a Boy Scout at the 
Inaugural celebration this year. He's been following the campaigns and 
is probably better informed than I am.




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 23:48:10 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:48:10 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbn6ub+hfck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbp53q+8fov@eGroups.com>

> Kemper now:
> Who said we can't talk politics?  We just can't be b-holes about it. 
> Glad to hear your excitement about seeing Hillary.  
> 
> Kemper, who's looking forward to the vp debate
>


Alla:

LOL, Kemper I am looking forward to the vp debate, but mainly because I 
am expecting to laugh a lot.

Did you enjoy presidential debate? I actually did more than I expected.




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 29 04:08:54 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 04:08:54 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbp53q+8fov@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbpkcm+8q3n@eGroups.com>

> Alla:
> LOL, Kemper I am looking forward to the vp debate, but mainly because 
> I am expecting to laugh a lot.

Kemper now:
Yeah... did you see her interview with Katie Couric? 
If yes, then you'll find this hilarious:
http://tiny.cc/NsvtY


> Alla:
> Did you enjoy presidential debate? I actually did more than I expected.

Kemper now:
I did.  I though Obama won, but that it was close.  The talking heads
were making a big deal that McCain didn't have much if any eye contact
with Obama, saying that it was disrespectful and such.  But I think
McCain's intention was to stay calm and that he's been coached to
avoid eye contact as it's a trigger to his temper.  I thought McCain
did a great job maintaining composure.

Kemper 




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 29 04:18:46 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 04:18:46 -0000
Subject: Civics Re: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbovct+5r7v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbpkv6+hlun@eGroups.com>

> Potioncat:
> Both of my older kids helped at the inaugural parade 4 years ago. Our 
> Boy Scout troop and Girl Scout troop (Cadet, Senior) provide service 
> for the events. My daughter (18) is very excited about voting and has 
> been carefully completing forms so she can vote while at college.

Kemper now:
That's wonderful!!!
I work with older youth and encourage all of my 18 - 22 year olds to
become informed and to vote... even if its against the person/measure
that I'm for!  To me, it's more important to get youth politically
engaged.

I hope your daughter's experience will be good one.

In my state, Oregon, we get our ballots a couple of weeks before
election day.  That way everyone gets the opportunity to vote without
losing a day of work or standing in lines that stretch forever.

I'm surprised other states don't adopt our awesome system!

Kemper




From donnawonna at att.net  Mon Sep 29 20:37:48 2008
From: donnawonna at att.net (Donna)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:37:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: Computer Question
Message-ID: <48E13C99.00001B.03940@LIFESAVER>

Donna:
I'm running Windows XP Home on a Dell laptop.  Is there an "F" key I can use
to take my machine out of hibernation?  Is there a way I can set the monster
so that it doesn't go into hibernation?  I admit to being computer
illiterate.
Thanx.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 29 23:56:23 2008
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:56:23 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbpkcm+8q3n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbrpv7+avu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor" 
<kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> > Alla:
> > LOL, Kemper I am looking forward to the vp debate, but mainly 
because 
> > I am expecting to laugh a lot.
> 
> Kemper now:
> Yeah... did you see her interview with Katie Couric? 
> If yes, then you'll find this hilarious:
> http://tiny.cc/NsvtY
> 

Alla:

Well, you know, bailout is all about the healthcare and you know, 
Alaskans do keep an eye on those russians. Thank you, I laughed a 
lot, but it also makes me so very scared that she is indeed can be 
one step from presidency if she is elected.

And dear god, this skit is almost exactly what she said, with some 
funny additions. Oy.






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 30 00:31:49 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:31:49 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbrpv7+avu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbrs1l+p42j@eGroups.com>

> Alla: 
> Well, you know, bailout is all about the healthcare and you know, 
> Alaskans do keep an eye on those russians. Thank you, I laughed a 
> lot, but it also makes me so very scared that she is indeed can be 
> one step from presidency if she is elected.

Kemper now:
I know, right?
I'm not super concerned of a McCain presidency, but I am way afraid of
a Palin one.

::shivers::
Kemper




From Schlobin at aol.com  Tue Sep 30 01:36:27 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:36:27 -0000
Subject: Hillary Clinton visit
In-Reply-To: <gbpkcm+8q3n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbrvqr+qopr@eGroups.com>

Well, I'm terribly passionate about politics (did you guess?), but 
MOSTLY putting that aside for a moment......

The first president I met was Gerald Ford. I was on a panel with him 
when I was getting my B.A. He and I totally disagreed (even then), 
but when I made a point about the constitution permitting freedom of 
speech (at that time this was about anti-war Vietnam), he 
said "you're absolutely right." I was very affected by his ability to 
listen and see me as a human being (even if we disagreed). I've 
always had respect for him as a real gentleman...On the other hand, 
Charles Percy (a Democrat Senator was there) and all he obviously 
wanted was to have his picture taken with college students (ychhh)...
he was basically disgusting...with a limp handshake..and obviously 
false persona

I shook hands with President Nixon..and he was a plastic, hollow 
man...

In October of 1992, then Gov. Clinton spoke at the University of 
Michigan. Through some chicanery (bogus press credentials), a dear 
friend of mine and I  managed to infilitrate into the back of the 
place where he was scheduled to speak. We were immediately approached 
by Secret Service who told us we had to leave...while we were 
bullshitting a little...first Bill came by, and then Hillary...I was 
so dumbfounded that all I could say (harking back to my middle class 
training at my mother's hands) was "How do you do, Mr. President?"
Since he was not yet president, this caused him to break into a major 
grin. (I had the opportunity another time of shaking hands with him).
So, y'all know that I'm a lesbian, but he is/was an incredibly sexy 
and charismatic man..he exuded charisma.....it oozed out of him...

I was wearing a button that said "Hillary's Husband for President" 
and that evinced a smile from now Senator Clinton when I had the 
opportunity to shake hands with her....I remember that she had 
lavendar leather gloves on....and was very pleasant...

I voted for Senator Clinton in the primary, but will be very happy 
when Senator Obama wins.....

Susan






From Schlobin at aol.com  Tue Sep 30 01:47:50 2008
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:47:50 -0000
Subject: Plum Velvet Suit
In-Reply-To: <gb6lbo+q9nq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbs0g6+7pvo@eGroups.com>

Well, JKR says she always thought of DD as gay...so I think it was one 
of her amusing tongue in cheek things that DD had a flamboyant plum 
suit... gay men have lately associated with flamboyant outfits (but of 
course if you look at all the aides to the Republicans in Congress who 
are gay, they are all in Brooks Brothers suits)

And look at those absolutely gorgeous outfits that Richard Harris wore 
in the first two films, and the wonderful drawing on the back of HP and 
the PS.....the filmmakers in the first two movies had no clue he was 
gay, but went ahead with the outfits anyway (they remind me of the 
outfits for Olivia de Havilland in the Adventures of Robin Hood.)

But, gorgeous costumes do not necessarily mean gay. Look at Sir Percy 
Blakeney......(sink me) who is totally heterosexual, but in the film 
with Anthony Andrews as the most incredible outfits....

And so, lots of men in the HP universe dress is bright colors...which 
has really no bearing on orientation...

My son, who is now 11, will only wear gray, brown, dark blue, dark 
green,and black to school - to mirror all the other 11 year old boys. 
He said "Mommy, don't blame me! It's what all the other kids wear!" On 
weekends, he dresses in bright colors for me (he's a real sweetheart).

Susan






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 30 05:07:34 2008
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:07:34 -0000
Subject: Plum Velvet Suit
In-Reply-To: <gbs0g6+7pvo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gbsc6m+7ng8@eGroups.com>


> Susan:
> And so, lots of men in the HP universe dress is bright colors...which 
> has really no bearing on orientation...

Kemper now:
By HP universe, I'm assume you mean the Magic world.  So, yes, that's
true. But the Muggle world circa 193? with DD wearing plum can easily
be associated with orientation.  My impression was that DD was
intentionally flamboyant... but not for his meeting at the orphanage,
for the meeting afterwards (in my personal fanfic).

Kemper