from Main List. Re: Christ figure - forgiveness

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

Pippin wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/186254>:

<< What Harry brings back is Voldemort's last chance and forgiveness for Snape and Dumbledore. Speaking as a Jew, it doesn't quite mesh with the values of Judaism. According to Jewish teaching, remorse is not restitution, and forgiveness cannot be granted unless restitution is made. I'm perfectly happy to appreciate HP on its own terms. I just don't see them as universal. >>

All the Christians can explain what I get wrong, but it seems to me that what you are leaving out is Original Sin. Jewish doctrine doesn't believe in Original Sin, only the wrongdoing of each individual person. (For which Snape definitely made restitution, and Dumbledore tried to, so it is only that Voldemort's remorse might improve the state of his soul to which the principle of no forgiveness without restitution would apply. If Voldemort's remorse meant his next great adventure would be as something with a bit more ability than a flayed baby, perhaps his next stop after King's Cross would be eons of trying to make restitution: beyond King's Cross, JKR sayeth not.)

Christian doctrine believes that every individual is innately guilty of Original Sin and that no amount of human restitution can make up for Original Sin, and neither can repentance (remorse) without Christ. Thus, all humans are doomed unless they are forgiven without restitution, or they are forgiven because Christ made restitution on their behalf. (At this point, the phrase 'vicarious suffering' floats up in my memory -- as you know, 'vicarious' is like 'proxy', so IIRC this phrase means Christ was punished as humans' proxy, with the punishment that humans deserved.) But my point was, when restitution is impossible, the only remaining possibilities are forgiveness without restitution or no forgiveness.