[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry Potter and God

[No Limberger]

>No.Limberger wrote:
>I am occasionally in situations in which someone with strong
>religious convictions takes over a conversation in an effort to
>quote from the bible and/or proselytize. I, and others that I know
>who have been in similar situations, often want to avoid an
>argument and either say nothing, walk away to end the
>conversation or attempt to change the subject.

>Carol responds:
>You don't attempt to argue with them? I'm surprised. (I've never
>had that happen, BTW--only the occasional door-to-door
>evangelist, and a polite answer turneth away proselytism,
>or whatever the word is.)

No.Limberger responds:
I have done so on a few occasions, but rarely.  In most cases,
I do as I previously indicated.  It has happened to me on more
than one occasion in a work-place.

>No.Limberger wote:
> Unfortunately, followers of exclusive religions (such as
>Christianity) can come to view themselves as being superior
>to everyone else and can sometimes take it upon themselves
>to proselytize and/or criticize others' beliefs that are different
>from theirs

>Carol responds:
>But isn't that exactly what you're doing in saying that Saint Paul
>never experienced his conversion as depicted in the Epistles
>and similar criticisms of Christian beliefs?

No.Limberger responds:
To believe in any of the mythology described in the bible is
based solely upon faith.  If anyone claims to have seen or
heard a ghost, unless there are other witnesses and/or
sources to demonstrate the validity of the claim, then, no,
I find no reason to believe it.  My earlier statement that
the claim is unsubstantiated is based upon available
evidence and the likelihood that such an event could
actually occur.

>Carol wrote:
>No one was ever dissuaded from their beliefs by having
>them ridiculed, criticized, or insulted or having another
>person's belief or disbelief shoved in their faces. ("I'm right;
>you're wrong" is just as offensive whether the person saying
>it believes that God is on his or her side or that God doesn't
>exist.) In fact, that sort of behavior is likely to make them
>cling more tightly to their own beliefs (or doubts).

No.Limberger responds:
Yes, I agree with your point.  It can be difficult to find the right
words that express a counterpoint without causing an insult
to the other side in these types of discussions.  Some
people will be offended regardless of how something is said.

>Carol wrote:
>As far as I can see, you're doing exactly what the people you
>criticize are doing--evangelical atheism. I happen to believe that
>Jesus was a historical person and that some of the stories told
>about him are true while others were intended for a particular
>audience (either Jews or Greeks) to convince them that Jesus
>was divine. But I'm not about to say that I'm right and someone
>else is wrong or that the Gospels are a form of plagiarism (propaganda,
>possibly, but the parts depicting Jesus' adult life are probably as
>accurate as most ancient or medieval historical records written
>before modern standards of accuracy had been developed.

No.Limberger responds:
If I (or anyone else) states that there is actually no evidence that
Jesus ever existed, that is simply stating a fact as the bible alone
is not historical evidence.  While I don't dismiss the possibility
that he may have existed, I find the various miracles and claims
about his birth and resurrection to be highly unlikely and too
similar to tales about Pagan deities that existed long before Jesus
may have lived.  If someone is insulted when presented with the
available evidence as compared with their personal beliefs, then
they will no doubt dismiss the available evidence in favor of the
beliefs.

-- 
"Why don't you dance with me, I'm not no limberger!"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]