From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Jun  1 00:33:30 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 20:33:30 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <689C912CA7FD453E936E3D131DD8EB6E@miles>
References: <gvsh48+1086d@eGroups.com> <gvunhe+kruv@eGroups.com> <D01BCA5EAC1D45928195DA43FF93EAA6@FRODO> <689C912CA7FD453E936E3D131DD8EB6E@miles>
Message-ID: <0E5EC423D85A4734A44E1643F8BE0A26@FRODO>

| Lee Storm wrote:
| > As far as the Hand Of Glory, that's easy.  Harry probably mentioned
| > it to Ron since he had seen it; Draco probably went back to B&B when
| > he had some extra galleons and bought it for himself.
| 
| Miles
| I agree and disagree ;).
| On the one hand, there's no problem about things happening 
| offpage. It's 
| necessary to have most of the things happen offpage, unless you write 
| Ulysses and happen to be James Joyce. And Draco was 
| interested in the Hand 
| of Glory in CoS, and could easily have bought it in the 
| following years, or 
| got it as a birthday gift or whatever. And Harry could have 
| told Ron, and 
| Ron could remember when he sees it.
| 
| But on the other hand, why should Harry remember the hand, 
| Draco's interest 
| in it AND talk about it to Ron? Is there any indication that 
| the Trio would 
| talk about Draco's private life in their leisure-time?

[Lee]:
I could postulate that Ron might have asked Harry to tell him about B&Bs,
and harry would have no doubt told him what kinds of things he saw.  I also
postulate Harry's mentioning to Ron about what he witnessed while hiding in
the cabinet...Draco's interest, Lucius's refusal to get it, and they
probably figuring or predicting that Draco, if he really wanted it, would
get it one way or other.  Remember, they had an hour to talk about stuff
before meeting up with everyone at Florish & Blotts.

[Miles]:
| Is there any 
| probability that Draco would boast about having a "Dark 
| Object" for burglars 
| at home - at least if he is not among Slytherins?

[Lee]:
Probably not, though he might have been overheard talking about it.  Maybe,
Off-Page, he might have showed it to someone and Ron noticed...a more
unlikely scenario.  I go with my original thoughts.

[Miles]:
| While it is possible that Draco owns the hand and Ron knows 
| about it, it's 
| quite unlikely. It's not really a Flint, but if I had to bet, 
| I'd bed on a 
| JKR mistake.

[Lee]:
Probably, but this is one of those things that fall into the line of "could
be."  It's explinable, plausible, and no big deal. <Grin>

Now, Harry get's a new Sneakoscope in DH; but we never find out what
happened to his old one.  Did Uncle Vernon smash it? <Chuckle>

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Jun  1 02:03:13 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:03:13 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <0E5EC423D85A4734A44E1643F8BE0A26@FRODO>
References: <gvsh48+1086d@eGroups.com> <gvunhe+kruv@eGroups.com> <D01BCA5EAC1D45928195DA43FF93EAA6@FRODO> <689C912CA7FD453E936E3D131DD8EB6E@miles> <0E5EC423D85A4734A44E1643F8BE0A26@FRODO>
Message-ID: <000001c9e25d$1f6c0aa0$5e441fe0$@com>



-----Original Message-----


Now, Harry get's a new Sneakoscope in DH; but we never find out what
happened to his old one.  Did Uncle Vernon smash it? <Chuckle>

Cheers,

Lee :-)	
::::::::::::::::::::
I thought it was broken in his chest at one point.

md



------------------------------------




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 03:51:05 2009
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 20:51:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Birthdays for the second part of May!
Message-ID: <239030.79008.qm@web63404.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


*a slightly tipsy Elf staggers around the room, hanging streamers slightly askew and trying in vain to suspend the magical, glittery confetti above the dance floor*

Hic. 

Oops, I think I've had too much cough syrup! Please be excusing the slighty wonky decorations, good sirs and misses. 

Birthday honourees for the second part of May included:

May 13  Neil  flyingfordanglia at yahoo.co.uk
May 16  Minzzer  minzzer at hotmail.com
May 17  Megan(Rhiannon333)  rhiannon333 at hotmail.com
May 21  Mirzam Black  mirzamblack at yahoo.com
May 22  Jen Piersol  jenp_97 at yahoo.com
May 25  Charis Julia  fgroan at hotmail.com
May 29  Kaylee Tonks-Lupin  fuzzlebub85 at aol.com

Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to the addresses above.

An ever-replenish table of nibblies has been provided, as has a full bar and an incredible array of various sized cakes (with magical frosting that changes colours!). 

Can I get someone to take care of the music for this party? It's a wee bit late here and another round of cough syrup will surely put me to sleep. :D

I hope everyone had magical days and are enjoying good health and happiness.

Happy Birthday, Neil!
Happy Birthday, Minzzer!
Happy Birthday, Megan!
Happy Birthday, Mirzam!
Happy Birthday, Jen!
Happy Birthday, Charis Julia!
Happy Birthday, Kaylee!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf, who came home from a very nice vacation only to be met with a particularly vicious case of the flu :(
Join me at Sirens this fall!  http://www.sirensconference.org/


      __________________________________________________________________
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 04:53:55 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:53:55 -0000
Subject: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <000001c9e25d$1f6c0aa0$5e441fe0$@com>
Message-ID: <gvvmt3+mpg7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> > Original message:
> > Now, Harry get's a new Sneakoscope in DH; but we never find 
> > out what happened to his old one.


  
> I thought it was broken in his chest at one point.


zanooda:

You are right, the old Sneakoscope was mentioned in DH (ch.2), when Harry was emptying his trunk. It was all cracked, so I suppose Harry threw it away together with the rest of the useless junk :-).





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 16:40:20 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:40:20 -0000
Subject: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <D01BCA5EAC1D45928195DA43FF93EAA6@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h0109k+hvgf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> [Carol]:
> | For now, I'm just going to chalk it up to JKR's inability to 
> | remember what she's had her character do or say from one book 
> | to another, an inconsistency like Lily's letter to Sirius or 
> | Draco's Hand of Glory, which Ron should not have known about 
> | and Lucius refused to buy.
> 
> [Lee]:
> Where's the inconsistency with the letter to Sirius?  I'm missing something.
> 
> As far as the Hand Of Glory, that's easy.  Harry probably mentioned it to
> Ron since he had seen it; Draco probably went back to B&B when he had some
> extra galleons and bought it for himself.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lee :-)
>
Carol responds:

It's written right after Harry's first birthday (July 31), so the letter is probably written around August 1. At that point, according to the letter, the Potters are already in hiding and apparently under the Fidelius Charm, which according to PoA was placed a week before they died. (Since they were killed on October 31, the charm must have been placed on them around October 25, nearly three months after the letter was written.) DD already has James's Invisibility Cloak, which DD says in "King's Cross" that he had for only a week before James died. (He must have obtained it at the same time that he offered to become Secret Keeper and was refused; he can't have done so afterward because he would not have known the Secret once Peter became Secret Keeper.) And "Wormy" is acting troubled, as if he's already about to betray them, which he can't do yet because he's not the Secret Keeper (and they certainly wouldn't have made him Secret Keeper if he'd been acting strangely). Sirius is already in hiding separate from the Potters or he wouldn't be writing to them, and yet it's only about August 1. It's as if JKR somehow has Harry's birthday, July 31, confused with the Potters' death date, October 31.

Carol, who thinks that JKR is too young to have such "senior moments"!






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 17:19:12 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:19:12 -0000
Subject: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <689C912CA7FD453E936E3D131DD8EB6E@miles>
Message-ID: <h012ig+m7q2@eGroups.com>

Lee Storm wrote:
> > As far as the Hand Of Glory, that's easy.  Harry probably mentioned it to Ron since he had seen it; Draco probably went back to B&B when he had some extra galleons and bought it for himself.
> 
> Miles
> I agree and disagree ;).
> On the one hand, there's no problem about things happening offpage. It's necessary to have most of the things happen offpage <snip>. And Draco was interested in the Hand of Glory in CoS, and could easily have bought it in the following years, or got it as a birthday gift or whatever. And Harry could have told Ron, and Ron could remember when he sees it.
> 
> But on the other hand, why should Harry remember the hand, Draco's interest in it AND talk about it to Ron? Is there any indication that the Trio would talk about Draco's private life in their leisure-time? Is there any probability that Draco would boast about having a "Dark Object" for burglars at home - at least if he is not among Slytherins?
> 
> While it is possible that Draco owns the hand and Ron knows about it, it's quite unlikely. It's not really a Flint, but if I had to bet, I'd bed on a JKR mistake.
>
Carol responds:

I agree. Not to mention that Ron (twice) remembers the Hand of Glory as something that Draco already has in his possession as if he and Harry have actually seen it at Hogwarts. Needless to say, it wasn't in the Slytherin Common Room when Ron and Harry went there disguised as Crabbe and Goyle in CoS because Lucius had refused to buy it. And Draco had no actual need for it, no reason to bring it into the school, at least, until sixth year. Since Filch, who confiscated Crabbe's shrunken head, had a Dark Detector, he would also have detected a Hand of Glory, another Dark object from Borgin and Burke's. 

The only way Draco could have gotten it into the school during sixth year without its being detected was through the Vanishing Cabinet when he finally succeeded in fixing it. He could not have had it all along (he wouldn't have left it at school after buying it or receiving it as a gift some other year). And, as you say, Draco certainly didn't go around showing it off at school. Not only was the Hand of Glory intended, as you say, for use by robbers, his intended use was worse than robbery, and he was keeping his Vanishing Cabinet plan secret even from his helpers, Crabbe and Goyle.

So Ron could not have seen Draco's Hand of Glory at school, and he could not have seen it in Diagon Alley or on Platform 9 3/4 or the Hogwarts Express, either, because Draco could not have had it there and because we readers see all the interactions between Harry, Ron, and Draco in those places. The most Ron could have said is, "Remember that Hand of Glory thing you told me that you saw Malfoy looking at in Borgin and Burke's right before second year?"

But there's no evidence that Harry even told Ron about the Hand of Glory (as you say, why should he have done so?), and no reason for Ron to remember it. More important, he has no reason to act as if he's seen it himself and knows it to be in Draco's possession as he does twice in HBP. He can't possibly have seen it or know that Draco has it.

JKR has said herself that she doesn't read her own books once they've been published. That's unfortunate. If she reread them, or at least consulted the relevant chapters, she wouldn't make so many mistakes. As for the consistency editor, there might as well not be one given all the inconsistencies that get by her.

Carol, who hates moments like Ron's two remarks about the Hand of Glory that jerk her out of her willingly suspended disbelief




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Mon Jun  1 17:23:51 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:23:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <gvvmt3+mpg7@eGroups.com>
References: <000001c9e25d$1f6c0aa0$5e441fe0$@com> <gvvmt3+mpg7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <C55B3A5BA51C4130AE2C29FF29881BE5@FRODO>

[I had said]:
| > > Now, Harry get's a new Sneakoscope in DH; but we never find 
| > > out what happened to his old one.

[MD]:| > I thought it was broken in his chest at one point.

[zanooda]:
| You are right, the old Sneakoscope was mentioned in DH 
| (ch.2), when Harry was emptying his trunk. It was all 
| cracked, so I suppose Harry threw it away together with the 
| rest of the useless junk :-).

[lee]:
Yes, I get that, but how did it get damaged like that? Given that he
received it in his 3rd year, it's only 4 years old, so one wonders to what
evil it was exposed that would damage it so.  My thought, Uncle Vernon's
fist. <Smile.>

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Jun  1 17:31:52 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:31:52 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <h0109k+hvgf@eGroups.com>
References: <D01BCA5EAC1D45928195DA43FF93EAA6@FRODO> <h0109k+hvgf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002501c9e2de$da7975e0$8f6c61a0$@com>



-----Original Message-----


Carol, who thinks that JKR is too young to have such "senior moments"!





------------------------------------
She does plan to publish a timeline.

It's also notable that the publisher did not hire an editor to keep track of
logical order until after the third book. It's also possible that re-prints
could / will have corrections made.

Even Tolkien couldn't keep everything perfect in his stories, that's
partially why he edited them continuously for 50 years and his son continued
for long after and there are about 10 -15 different printed versions of
LOTR.

md




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  1 17:34:48 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:34:48 -0000
Subject: protective enchantments
In-Reply-To: <0E5EC423D85A4734A44E1643F8BE0A26@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h013fo+scug@eGroups.com>

Lee wrote:
<snip>
> Now, Harry get's a new Sneakoscope in DH; but we never find out what happened to his old one. Did Uncle Vernon smash it? <Chuckle>
>
Carol responds:
We're told from the beginning that the Sneakoscope that Ron gives Harry in PoA is a cheap one, and when Harry is going through his possessions in DH, they include a worn-out Sneakoscope. Obviously, Hermione knew that they needed a good one if they were going Horcrux-hunting and were on the run from Voldemort and the DEs. That's not an inconsistency. It's actually explained.

OTOH, Harry receives a magical razor from Fleur, yet he has a bit of stubble (and long hair) when he sees his reflection in Malfoy manor. Why, if he has a razor and, presumably, their magical tent has a bathroom, is he still unshaven? And Hermione, with all her magical talents, can't give the boys a magical haircut when they have nothing better to do than sit around and argue about Horcruxes? And even Harry takes a few books with him, but nobody uses them to while away the time. Hermione reads and rereads "The Tales of Beadle the Bard" and they read bits of "A History of Magic" and Rita Skeeter's biography of Dumbledore, but no one reads about bits of magic that might prove useful, maybe a way to restore that chunk of skin that was torn from Ron's arm when he was Splinched?

Little things, I know, and those don't bother me. I only mentioned them because you mentioned the Sneakoscope, which actually can be explained. (Still, though, why mention that magical razor if it's not going to play a part in the story?) But bigger things like Ron knowing about the Hand of Glory when that's not possible or the timing of Lily's letter to Sirius being three months off do bother me. Call me a perfectionist, but I think the books should be consistent with one another and it annoys me when I remember the facts of the story better than the author does.

Carol, noting that such details don't ruin the series for her but they do disturb the illusion of reality as she reads




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Jun  1 21:46:34 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:46:34 -0000
Subject: The time has come, the Walrus said.... (long)
Message-ID: <h01i7q+8jp6@eGroups.com>

"The time has come,' the Walrus said,
To talk of many things:
Of shoes -- and ships -- and sealing wax --
Of cabbages -- and kings." 
(Lewis Carroll: Through the Looking Glass)

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, 
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
(Hamlet: Act 1 Scene V)

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and 
certain of what we do not see 
(New Testament, Paul's letter to the Hebrews chapter 11 verse1)

I have wanted to comment at length on some of the issues which arose 
in the "Harry Potter and God" thread. Because of family circumstances, 
my time during the day is very limited so it has taken a considerable 
time for me to put together this post. It is long. If the thread doesn't 
interest you, please leave it
. If you do read, I hope it will provoke 
some thought.

No.Limberger wrote:
As a species, humans are highly inquisitive. Our minds seek to 
understand as much as possible. Our ancient ancestors could not 
explain life, death, their existence, why some people get sick and 
some don't, etc. Their minds then created the notion of deities
.

Now, as to specific religions, who's to say that one is better than 
another, or that a particular sect withinone religion is better than 
other sects within the same religion?
******
One important point is that Christianity is not based on ancient 
deities but on a person who lived on the earth at a specific time. 
Christians believe that he was God in human form.

No.Limberger also wrote:
Unlike science, no religion or religious sect can demonstrate the 
validity of its beliefs,..
******
There are many concepts which cannot be quantified:  faith, hope, 
conscience, love and so on. But that does not deny their existence. 
I quoted Paul's definition of faith at the heading of this post. 

Everyone, in same way, exercises faith if only in small ways. When 
I drive my car, I have faith that the engineer who assembled or 
serviced my car constructed the braking system correctly so that 
when I press the brake pedal, they work. I exercise faith when a 
close friend or relative promises to do something, it will be done 
and I go ahead working in that assumption. Christians hold faith 
in the promises of Jesus Christ that eternal life exists. Atheists hold 
faith that it doesn't. If, when I leave this life, I and millions of other 
Christians are wrong, we will not know. On the other hand, if 
atheists have backed the wrong horse, they may find themselves 
facing some probing questions at the pearly gates

:-)

And some time ago, in post 39349 md wrote:
I could of course argue that Christians have never been truly 
introduced to logic and reason because faith clouds their minds. I 
don't,
.
******
At the time, I missed the last two words and commented that there 
were leading scientists in the world who were logical and also people 
of faith. Although md responded that he had written "I don't", I feel 
on reflection that in writing that originally, he had in fact made that 
argument.

In the following quotes, I believe that part of them shows that 
although Science may demonstrate the validity of its beliefs, they do 
not encompass the entirety of knowledge and would like to offer the 
following three examples of noted scientists at the very top of their 
profession who hold to Christian faith:
******
Francis Collins is the director of the Human Genome Project. Formerly 
an atheist, he is now a Christian and explained in a recent interview 
how this came about:
"I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those 
world views. As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a 
consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human 
genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the 
information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the 
elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a 
reflection of God's plan.

I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in 
physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to 
postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics 
and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life 
and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of 
those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began 
searching for answers. I had to admit that the science I loved so much 
was powerless to answer questions such as "What is the meaning of life?" 
"Why am I here?" "Why does mathematics work, anyway?" "If the universe 
had a beginning, who created it?" "Why are the physical constants in the 
universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?" 
"Why do humans have a moral sense?" "What happens after we die?"

I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and 
irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the 
writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many 
other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility 
of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist's 
assertion that "I know there is no God" emerged as the least defensible. 
As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, "Atheism is the 
most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative."

To save space I have not quoted Francis Collins' full article. If you wish to 
read it in full, this link should take you to it:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
****** 
Sir John Polkinghorne (usually known as Dr.or Rev.) is one of the most 
noted of UK scientists. For 25 years, he was a theoretical physicist working 
on theories of elementary particles and played a significant role in the 
discovery of the quark.  From 1968 to 1979 he was Professor of 
Mathematical Physics at Cambridge University, and he was elected a 
Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 1974. In 1982, he stepped back 
from being at the cutting edge of science to train as a Christian minister 
and to spend time publishing books and articles on God and Science.

He suggests that God is the ultimate answer to Leibniz's great question 
"why is there something rather than nothing?" The atheist's "plain 
assertion of the world's existence" is a "grossly impoverished view of 
reality," he says, arguing that "theism explains more than a reductionist 
atheism can ever address."

He recently appeared on a BBC TV progamme in which he made the 
following observation: "Science is enormously successful in answering 
the questions that it chooses to address: how things happen but there 
are lots of other things happening in the world, lots of other ways of 
looking at things. There's a meaning, there's a value, there's a purpose 
going on and Science just brackets that out, doesn't pretend to answer 
those questions.

So, the kettle's boiling: the scientific answer is because the gas is 
burning and it heats the water. But there's also a possible answer `The 
kettle's boiling because I want to make a cup of tea and would you like 
to have one?' And we know that we can ask and answer both those 
questions ? the how and why if you like ? about the same thing but 
Science only answers one of them."
******
Dr.Owen Gingerich was at one time Research Professor of Astronomy 
and History of Science at Havard University and has several books on 
astronomy and its history to his credit. In the same programme, he 
said: "There are very interesting unanswered questions.  Science makes 
its great progress by very carefully  choosing questions that will have 
answers.

`Why is there something rather than nothing?' `Why is the universe c
omprehensible?' These are all metaphysical questions, literally `meta-` 
beyond, physics. I think these are important questions and worthy of 
philosophical reflection but they're just not the kind of questions that 
Science is capable of answering so we have to keep in mind that Science 
is very good at doing its own thing. That's not the totality of human 
thought or human appreciation."
******
Christian faith does not deny the existence of Science and there is a 
considerable body of scientific opinion which does not deny the 
existence of faith.

Each scientific step forward reveals more questions. I was highly 
amused last year when the Large Hadron Collider was started up in 
Switzerland . On the BBC news, one of the science reporters had been 
enthusing  how the machine would simulate conditions near the Big 
Bang and then rounded off the report by commenting "Even if we know 
all about the Big Bang, we may never unravel what caused it."

Yes, well
..






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  2 00:06:32 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:06:32 -0000
Subject: Hand of Glory and other Mysteries
In-Reply-To: <h012ig+m7q2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h01qe8+qmgb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Lee Storm wrote:
> > > As far as the Hand Of Glory, that's easy.  Harry probably mentioned it to Ron since he had seen it; Draco probably went back to B&B when he had some extra galleons and bought it for himself.
> > 
> > Miles
> > I agree and disagree ;).
> > On the one hand, there's no problem about things happening offpage. ...<snip>. And Draco was interested in the Hand of Glory in CoS, and could easily have bought it in the following years, .... It's not really a Flint, but if I had to bet, I'd bed on a JKR mistake.
> >
> Carol responds:
> 
> I agree. Not to mention that Ron (twice) remembers the Hand of Glory as something that Draco already has in his possession as if he and Harry have actually seen it at Hogwarts. ... Since Filch, who confiscated Crabbe's shrunken head, had a Dark Detector, he would also have detected a Hand of Glory, another Dark object from Borgin and Burke's. 
> 
> The only way Draco could have gotten it into the school during sixth year without its being detected was through the Vanishing Cabinet when he finally succeeded in fixing it. ...
> 
> So Ron could not have seen Draco's Hand of Glory at school, ...
> 
> Carol, who hates moments like Ron's two remarks about the Hand of Glory that jerk her out of her willingly suspended disbelief
>


bboyminn:

But we are assuming the Ron is not assuming facts not in evidence.
Does that make sense. Ron, having has an encounter with Draco in
which Draco could clearly see even though the hallway was filled
with Peruvian Darkness Power, may have simple lead Ron to 
remember back to Harry's account of Borgin and Burks, and to 
conclude that Draco had the Hand of Glory. 

Ron may be stating it as if it were a know fact, but it could
well be simply a conclusion he reached. He is, sort of, filling
in the blanks with supposition and then taking that supposition
as fact.

As to how Draco got the Hand, well I think he certainly felt he
was going to need it. And they certainly need some way to test
the Vanishing Cabinet. When Trelawney heard the 'Whoop', it might 
have been Draco successfully transferring the Hand to Hogwarts.
The Hand being an essential tool in what they were about to do.

Once the Hand moved through unscathed, it was then time to find
a volunteer to try it. I'm not sure who the volunteer was or
how he was picked, but likely he was not too pleased at the 
idea, but was even less pleased that the idea of his sure death
and/or torture for disobeying. 

Keep in mind that we don't even know for sure the Draco purchased
the Hand. They may have simply forced Borgin to send it through
under threat of punishment. I suspect a good 'punishment' might
have been to threaten to send him through instead. 

So, while Ron states himself with a certain certainty, he may
only have that certainty because he analyzed the evidence and
reached that conclusion. Draco had a way of seeing through the
Darkness Powder. Also, Ginny confirms that they saw Draco had
the 'shriveled arm' before Draco throws the Darkness Power. 
Also, Ron only says one line, "His Hand of Glory" as a way of
explaining Ginny's 'shriveled arm' remark. From then on, it
is pretty much Ginny talking. 

So, we know they saw the Hand, we know they knew what the Hand
was and what it did, but there doesn't seem to be any 
speculation about how or where Draco got it except among fans.

I think it likely that my scenario is correct, the confirmation
that the Cabinet worked was the arrival of the much needed
Hand of Glory, after that it was a single test with a human,
and they were ready to go. I mean, since Draco has a supply of
Darkness Power, logically he would need a way to see while 
under its effects, so he made sure he had the Hand. 

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  2 22:22:31 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:22:31 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
Message-ID: <h048n7+74l0@eGroups.com>

Here is another translation-related question on DH. Remember how Ginny invites Harry to her room on his birthday? She says that she wants to give him something (like what?! :-)) to remember her by, because he can meet some Veela during his travels, and he answers that there won't be many opportunities for dating. Then she says: "There's the silver lining I've been looking for"(pp.116 and 99 US and UK respectively). 

Ok, I know what "silver lining" means (something good in something bad, right?), but still, it's not very clear to me what she wants to say. Where exactly was she looking for that silver lining :-)? Does she mean it in general, like, you know, everything is so bad - LV is on the loose, people are dying, Harry is going away to fight LV and he may never come back etc., but at least he won't date Veelas :-)? Or is it something else? 

I really want to understand what she wants to say, because when people try to translate this sentence close the the original, something incomprehensible comes out, so I want them to change it completely, and for this, they need to know exactly what it means. Perhaps someone could rephrase this sentence, say it using different words? Any help would be appreciated :-).


zanooda




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jun  2 22:59:21 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:59:21 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h048n7+74l0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h04as9+f157@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:

zanooda
> Here is another translation-related question on DH. Remember how Ginny invites Harry to her room on his birthday? She says that she wants to give him something (like what?! :-)) to remember her by, because he can meet some Veela during his travels, and he answers that there won't be many opportunities for dating. Then she says: "There's the silver lining I've been looking for"(pp.116 and 99 US and UK respectively). 
> 
> Ok, I know what "silver lining" means (something good in something bad, right?), but still, it's not very clear to me what she wants to say. Where exactly was she looking for that silver lining :-)? Does she mean it in general, like, you know, everything is so bad - LV is on the loose, people are dying, Harry is going away to fight LV and he may never come back etc., but at least he won't date Veelas :-)? Or is it something else? 
> 
> I really want to understand what she wants to say, because when people try to translate this sentence close the the original, something incomprehensible comes out, so I want them to change it completely, and for this, they need to know exactly what it means. Perhaps someone could rephrase this sentence, say it using different words? Any help would be appreciated :-).


Geoff:
I'm not sure whether Yahoo just demolished my reply so I'll post 
again and if I'm wrong, I'll delete one of the posts.

I read into this scene that Ginny is concerned that Harry might 
meet another girl while he is away who might capture his affection 
which Ginny wants him to retain for her.

So, when Harry suggests that he is not going to have a lot of time 
for dating, this is a silver lining because although their separation 
is being effectively caused by a war,  it will have the effect of stopping 
Harry from forming an attachment to another girl which reduces any 
threat in that direction towards Ginny - which I think is what you 
implied as part of your second paragraph.






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  2 23:59:45 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:59:45 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h048n7+74l0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h04edh+34sg@eGroups.com>

> zanooda:
> Here is another translation-related question on DH. Remember how Ginny invites Harry to her room on his birthday? She says that she wants to give him something (like what?! :-)) to remember her by, because he can meet some Veela during his travels, and he answers that there won't be many opportunities for dating. Then she says: "There's the silver lining I've been looking for"(pp.116 and 99 US and UK respectively). 
> 
> Ok, I know what "silver lining" means (something good in something bad, right?), but still, it's not very clear to me what she wants to say. Where exactly was she looking for that silver lining :-)? Does she mean it in general, like, you know, everything is so bad - LV is on the loose, people are dying, Harry is going away to fight LV and he may never come back etc., but at least he won't date Veelas :-)? Or is it something else? 

Kemper now:
I don't think it's what Geoff suggests (concern about dating someone else) I think the dark cloud (which has a silver lining if the sun hits just right) is that Harry is going off to do something that could get him dead.  The silver lining in that real danger is that if he's has to do this dangerous thing, he won't be dating or one-night-standing any other girl.  I think she is saying this sarcastically.  She knows he's not going to dating anyone.  The veela comment was just a ruse to get him into her room for whatever it was they did.

That's my read, anyway.

Kemper




From d2dmiles at yahoo.de  Wed Jun  3 00:42:00 2009
From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 02:42:00 +0200
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
References: <h048n7+74l0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <10CE868DF00B43F6AD6822695517720D@miles>

zanooda2 wrote:
> Here is another translation-related question on DH. Remember how
> Ginny invites Harry to her room on his birthday? She says that she
> wants to give him something (like what?! :-)) to remember her by,
> because he can meet some Veela during his travels, and he answers
> that there won't be many opportunities for dating. Then she says:
> "There's the silver lining I've been looking for"(pp.116 and 99 US
> and UK respectively).
>
> Ok, I know what "silver lining" means (something good in something
> bad, right?), but still, it's not very clear to me what she wants to
> say. Where exactly was she looking for that silver lining :-)? Does
> she mean it in general, like, you know, everything is so bad - LV is
> on the loose, people are dying, Harry is going away to fight LV and
> he may never come back etc., but at least he won't date Veelas :-)?
> Or is it something else?

Martin
I looked this up when I first read the book (I usually don't look anything 
up while reading a book) because I was really not sure if the meaning I 
remembered would fit. And I found different possible  meanings of "silver 
lining" apart from the figure of speech I knew.

Ginny knows quite well that Harry won't forget her. But she fears he could 
forget what she IS for him or better, what she could be for him. So, what 
she was looking for was something special to not let him forget, by showing 
or giving him something she obviously didn't give him before. She "enhances" 
his memory by embroiding it with a special and precious lining fabric - of 
silver.

Another idea could be to understand "line" as a cord (like in fishing line 
or phone line) to establish or hold a connection - "silver" playing with the 
Veela hair.

The native speakers can tell us whether JKR could have thought about these 
or other meanings - my impression is, that there is not one answer to 
zanooda's question, but many.

Miles 





From swartell at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 04:03:14 2009
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h04edh+34sg@eGroups.com>
References: <h04edh+34sg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <898602.53309.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Zanooda2 asks about silver linings...


>Then she says: "There's the silver lining I've been looking for"(pp.116 and 99 US and UK respectively) . 
> 
> Ok, I know what "silver lining" means (something good in something
bad, right?), but still, it's not very clear to me what she wants to
say. Where exactly was she looking for that silver lining :-)? Does she
mean it in general, like, you know, everything is so bad - LV is on the
loose, people are dying, Harry is going away to fight LV and he may
never come back etc., but at least he won't date Veelas :-)? Or is it
something else? 

Kemper now:
I don't think it's what Geoff suggests (concern about dating someone
else) I think the dark cloud (which has a silver lining if the sun hits
just right) is that Harry is going off to do something that could get
him dead. The silver lining in that real danger is that if he's has to
do this dangerous thing, he won't be dating or one-night-standing any
other girl. I think she is saying this sarcastically. She knows he's
not going to dating anyone. The veela comment was just a ruse to get
him into her room for whatever it was they did.

That's my read, anyway.

Kemper


Sue now:
I'm with Geoff on this one, I think, since I really don't sense any sarcasm at all in Ginny's remark.  It's much more a case of saying something funny to try to keep from crying, in my opinion - a light, funny remark about something very, very frightening.  She wants to keep the tone light, to be positive, to give Harry good memories of being with her.  In that sense, it harks back to Harry's thoughts at the end of HBP, when he thinks about her reaction to his announcement that they can't be together - she doesn't cry, or lament, or try to talk him out of his plans. 

I think Zanooda2's got it right - the dark clouds have been gathering for some time - and are a combination of all the bad things happening, topped off by Harry heading off to fight LV, or die in the attempt.  And the silver lining is the fact that at least there won't be anyone competing with her for Harry's love.

And while I wouldn't presume to guess what things JKR had going on in her head while she was writing this, I do think that the silver lining was the kind to be seen in dark clouds struck by the sun, rather than the other kinds of silver lines Miles mentioned.  The allusion is so common in English as to almost preclude any other interpretation - but of course YMMV (your mileage may vary).

My opinion only, of course, and everyone else is quite entitled to their own...

Sue


________________________________


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Jun  3 06:40:59 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:40:59 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <10CE868DF00B43F6AD6822695517720D@miles>
Message-ID: <h055tr+2vpc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" <d2dmiles at ...> wrote:

Martin:
> I looked this up when I first read the book (I usually don't look anything 
> up while reading a book) because I was really not sure if the meaning I 
> remembered would fit. And I found different possible  meanings of "silver 
> lining" apart from the figure of speech I knew.
> 
> Ginny knows quite well that Harry won't forget her. But she fears he could 
> forget what she IS for him or better, what she could be for him. So, what 
> she was looking for was something special to not let him forget, by showing 
> or giving him something she obviously didn't give him before. She "enhances" 
> his memory by embroiding it with a special and precious lining fabric - of 
> silver.
> 
> Another idea could be to understand "line" as a cord (like in fishing line 
> or phone line) to establish or hold a connection - "silver" playing with the 
> Veela hair.
> 
> The native speakers can tell us whether JKR could have thought about these 
> or other meanings - my impression is, that there is not one answer to 
> zanooda's question, but many.


Geoff:
As a native UK English speaker, I would never use the expression 
other than as the figure of speech which in fact is derived from a 
proverb "Every cloud has a silver lining" which suggests that every 
difficult situation has a hopeful, if not always obvious, possibility.

Repeating myself, to me, Ginny sees the cloud as Harry being away. 
He has already distanced himself from her in HBP to protect her and 
her fear, expressed semi-jokingly, is that he will fall for another girl.

His observation that his task doesn't leave much room for dating is, 
for her, the silver lining... the hopeful possibility.




From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Wed Jun  3 19:15:04 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:15:04 -0300
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
Message-ID: <4A26CBB8.7080800@rescueddoggies.com>

Likewise, speaking as a native, the phrase "There's a silver lining to 
every cloud" OR "Every cloud has a silver lining" is so much a part of 
our culture that I cannot imagine JKR meaning any other type of 
metaphorical lining.

The bad thing  (the big black cloud)  -  they are going to be separated 
and Harry will being danger
The good thing  (the silver lining)  -  at least he won't find someone 
else and forget her

Brian



From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 20:13:58 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:13:58 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h048n7+74l0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h06li6+5tnj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> Here is another translation-related question on DH. Remember how Ginny invites Harry to her room on his birthday? She says that she wants to give him something (like what?! :-)) to remember her by, because he can meet some Veela during his travels, and he answers that there won't be many opportunities for dating. Then she says: "There's the silver lining I've been looking for"(pp.116 and 99 US and UK respectively). 
> 
> Ok, I know what "silver lining" means (something good in something bad, right?), but still, it's not very clear to me what she wants to say. ...
> 
> 
> zanooda
>


bboyminn:

Just a reminder that Ginny and Harry are not in a deep 
philosophical conversation here, it is light breathy flirty
banter.

In general, the reference is forst to the common idiom 'Every
cloud has a silver lining' which comes from John Milton's 
'Comus'in 1634 - 

"Was I deceiv'd, or did a sable cloud 
Turn forth her silver lining on the night?"
 
So, the simple most general definition is -

"A hopeful or comforting prospect in the midst of difficulty."

So, in the flow of conversation, in a surely teasing flirty
way, Ginny says that Harry might find a Veela while he is
traveling around. Harry respond that dating opportunities
are going to be few and far between on the road. And Ginny
response with 'that's the silver lining I was looking for'.

Just on that level, the darkness is that Harry will be on
the run from Voldemort doing work for Dumbledore, but the
good part of all that dark, is that Harry won't be dating
anyone. It is a lighthearted comment.

I don't think this is intended for deep analysis, I think it
is just casual somewhat flirty conversation between two 
people. 

Steve/bboyminn




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Jun  3 17:30:15 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:30:15 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <10CE868DF00B43F6AD6822695517720D@miles>
Message-ID: <h06bv7+v07j@eGroups.com>

> Martin
> I looked this up when I first read the book (I usually don't look anything 
> up while reading a book) because I was really not sure if the meaning I 
> remembered would fit. And I found different possible  meanings of "silver 
> lining" apart from the figure of speech I knew.
> 
> Ginny knows quite well that Harry won't forget her. But she fears he could 
> forget what she IS for him or better, what she could be for him. So, what 
> she was looking for was something special to not let him forget, by showing 
> or giving him something she obviously didn't give him before. She "enhances" 
> his memory by embroiding it with a special and precious lining fabric - of 
> silver.
> 
> Another idea could be to understand "line" as a cord (like in fishing line 
> or phone line) to establish or hold a connection - "silver" playing with the 
> Veela hair.
> 
> The native speakers can tell us whether JKR could have thought about these 
> or other meanings - my impression is, that there is not one answer to 
> zanooda's question, but many.

Magpie:
I doubt she would have thought of any of those things. "Silver lining" is a pretty common expression. She means what other people have said. Harry has said he won't have any time for dating while he's saving the world and she's calling that the silver lining in the dark cloud of his going away to be in danger.

-m




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 21:54:43 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:54:43 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h06li6+5tnj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h06rf3+8fkk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> I don't think this is intended for deep analysis


zanooda:

I don't intend to analyze it, I just need to translate it, LOL! Or rather, to help someone else to translate it :-). I can't think of the exact same idiom in my language, plus the "I was looking for" part is rather confusing, so I need to find a way to say it differently. What would it be: 1. "This is my only consolation". 2. "This is what I wanted to hear". 3. "I knew there must be something good in all this" or something else :-)? One more thing: do you guys also think she says it a little ironically, or is she dead serious :-)?




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Jun  3 22:51:28 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:51:28 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h06bv7+v07j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h06upg+dftr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:

Magpie:
> I doubt she would have thought of any of those things. "Silver lining" is a pretty common expression. She means what other people have said. Harry has said he won't have any time for dating while he's saving the world and she's calling that the silver lining in the dark cloud of his going away to be in danger.

Geoff:
I see the dark cloud as his going away and **leaving her**.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Jun  3 22:55:19 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:55:19 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h06rf3+8fkk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h06v0n+dsic@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:

Steve: 
> > I don't think this is intended for deep analysis

zanooda: 
> I can't think of the exact same idiom in my language, plus the "I was looking for" part is rather confusing, so I need to find a way to say it differently. What would it be: 1. "This is my only consolation". 2. "This is what I wanted to hear". 3. "I knew there must be something good in all this" or something else :-)? 

Geoff:
Ginny being a modern teenager and not a Jane Austen heroine, I think number (2).

zanooda: 
One more thing: do you guys also think she says it a little ironically, or is she dead serious :-)?

Geoff:
Dead serious in my estimation.....





From swartell at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  3 23:44:00 2009
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h06rf3+8fkk@eGroups.com>
References: <h06rf3+8fkk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5512.46171.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

zanooda:

I don't intend to analyze it, I just need to translate it, LOL! Or rather, to help someone else to translate it :-). I can't think of the exact same idiom in my language, plus the "I was looking for" part is rather confusing, so I need to find a way to say it differently. What would it be: 1. "This is my only consolation" . 2. "This is what I wanted to hear". 3. "I knew there must be something good in all this" or something else :-)? One more thing: do you guys also think she says it a little ironically, or is she dead serious :-)?

Sue:
I'd go with your 3rd choice; to my ear (in English, obviously) it conveys the same sense of  "making the best of a bad situation."    Irony is the tone you're looking for, I think.  

I continue to be really impressed by the sensitivity to tone you show to English; some of your questions have made me think hard about exactly what JKR wrote and why she chose the phrasing she did.  And your instincts about what was meant have often matched my reading (which doesn't make them correct, necessarily, but does mean that your interpretation matches that of a native English speaker.)




__._,_.__   


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 00:04:44 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:04:44 -0000
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
Message-ID: <h0732s+enha@eGroups.com>

Zanooda has made several inquires about various phrases and 
idioms the English Language. I just wanted to thank her 
(him?) for provoking what always turn out to be thoughtful and
fun discussions. 

It may seem trivial to you, but always find it engaging. 

So, thanks.

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 00:19:50 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:19:50 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h06rf3+8fkk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h073v6+7rs5@eGroups.com>

---  "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- "Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> 
> > I don't think this is intended for deep analysis
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> I don't intend to analyze it, I just need to translate it, LOL! Or rather, to help someone else to translate it :-). I can't think of the exact same idiom in my language, plus the "I was looking for" part is rather confusing, so I need to find a way to say it differently. What would it be: 1. "This is my only consolation". 2. "This is what I wanted to hear". 3. "I knew there must be something good in all this" or something else :-)? One more thing: do you guys also think she says it a little ironically, or is she dead serious :-)?
>

I agree with others, 2.) and 3.) sound best to me. Though 3.)
could also be written, 'I knew there must be some good in all
this'. Though whether that's better of not, I'm not sure. Still,
I think 3.) captures the tone and reads smoothly to my ears. 

Number 2.) seems almost too lighthearted, and 1.) seems a little to 
formal for the situation. 

But you seem to understand it well enough, to have come up 
with fair and reasonable alternatives. 

As to what Ginny's tone is, I think there is an underlying
element of seriousness to it. She serious is worried that at 
some point in the future, Harry will have moved on. 

But, within the conversation, they are being lighthearted in 
a serious way it that makes any sense. The undertone is 
serious, but the overtone is humorous. Again, if that makes
any sense.

As to alternative to what you have already suggested. You
could make some reference to the 'bright side' if that is
a commonly understood phrase in your native language. 
Something along the line of, -

"That's the bright spot I was looking for."

"That's the bright side I was looking for."

Still, I think you've already captured in nicely.

Thanks for the many provocative discussions of language, I
find them very entertaining as well as educational.

Steve/bboyminn




From bhobbs36 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 01:44:19 2009
From: bhobbs36 at gmail.com (Belinda)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 01:44:19 -0000
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
In-Reply-To: <h0732s+enha@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h078tj+ml27@eGroups.com>

I agree Steve... and I thank you too, Zanooda! I really enjoy your questions, that make me stop and think about our idioms and the challenges of translation. Please continue to share anything that you come across. =)


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Zanooda has made several inquires about various phrases and 
> idioms the English Language. I just wanted to thank her 
> (him?) for provoking what always turn out to be thoughtful and
> fun discussions. 
> 
> It may seem trivial to you, but always find it engaging. 
> 
> So, thanks.
> 
> Steve/bluewizard
>





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 03:57:51 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:57:51 -0000
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
In-Reply-To: <h0732s+enha@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h07gnv+ao3t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> Zanooda has made several inquires about various phrases and 
> idioms the English Language. I just wanted to thank her 
> (him?) for provoking what always turn out to be thoughtful and
> fun discussions.


zanooda:

And *I* want to thank you all for always giving thoughtful and interesting answers :-). Even when you don't agree (remember "that thing in his hand"?), just reading all the different opinions gives me a lot and really improves my English. Besides, if one day there is finally a normal HP translation, even if it's amateur and only a few people will read it, those who will should thank you for it too :-).




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 04:46:04 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:46:04 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <5512.46171.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h07jic+kknk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sue Wartell <swartell at ...> wrote:

> I continue to be really impressed by the sensitivity to tone 
> you show to English; 


zanooda:

Thanks :-)! I usually understand everything well, but sometimes I need to ask a native speaker to be sure :-).


> Steve wrote:

> But you seem to understand it well enough, to have come up
> with fair and reasonable alternatives.


zanooda:

Only the 3rd one is mine :-). The 1st one is from the official translation, although I must say that it doesn't sound that formal there, because they used a verb, not a noun - I just wasn't sure how to say it in English ("this is the only thing that comforts me"?).

The 2nd one was offered by the girl who translated this chapter, and I liked how it sounded, but I was hoping to find something  that conveys the meaning a little better, with the "silver lining" and with "I was looking for" :-).

I came up with the 3rd one, but it kind of seems too far from the original, so I thought I should ask here, because if I understood the meaning of the sentence better maybe I would think of a better version. Or maybe someone will suggest it to me, LOL.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Jun  4 06:42:01 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:42:01 -0000
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
In-Reply-To: <h07gnv+ao3t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h07qbp+dk08@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
 
zanooda:
> And *I* want to thank you all for always giving thoughtful and interesting answers :-). Even when you don't agree (remember "that thing in his hand"?), just reading all the different opinions gives me a lot and really improves my English. Besides, if one day there is finally a normal HP translation, even if it's amateur and only a few people will read it, those who will should thank you for it too :-).

Geoff:
As the great Dr. Joad would have said: "It all depends on what 
you mean by normal"

<exits giving a maniacal cackle!>





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 15:53:30 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:53:30 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h073v6+7rs5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h08qlq+ijnr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> "That's the bright side I was looking for."


zanooda:

I need to check, but I think we do have an expression "the bright side" (I forgot :-)), so maybe I can use it. "I was looking for" doesn't sound well in translation (in this particular case). Can I say "I knew we can find a bright side in anything"? Or "I knew there must be a bright side here"? Or something like that? Thanks for the suggestion :-)




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 15:56:54 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:56:54 -0000
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
In-Reply-To: <h07qbp+dk08@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h08qs6+evjn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> As the great Dr. Joad would have said: "It all depends on what 
> you mean by normal"
 
> <exits giving a maniacal cackle!>


zanooda:

LOL! "Normal" translation is the one where Lucius Malfoy *doesn't* use telephone, where Neville *doesn't* fire at Voldemort and where he *doesn't* become a potions teacher at the end :-).





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  4 16:17:25 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:17:25 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h08qlq+ijnr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h08s2l+6h5j@eGroups.com>

> zanooda:
> I need to check, but I think we do have an expression "the bright side" (I forgot :-)), so maybe I can use it. "I was looking for" doesn't sound well in translation (in this particular case). Can I say "I knew we can find a bright side in anything"? Or "I knew there must be a bright side here"? Or something like that? Thanks for the suggestion :-)


Kemper now:
If it translates well, what about:
"Oh. So that's the bright side in all of this."
I don't think 'I was looking for' is that important; I think it adds to the tone rather than the meaning.

To back track, I liked #3.  

Kemper





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Jun  4 18:12:13 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:12:13 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h08qlq+ijnr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h092pt+jv4c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:

Steve: 
> > "That's the bright side I was looking for."
 
> zanooda: 
> I need to check, but I think we do have an expression "the bright side" (I forgot :-)), so maybe I can use it. "I was looking for" doesn't sound well in translation (in this particular case). Can I say "I knew we can find a bright side in anything"? Or "I knew there must be a bright side here"? Or something like that? Thanks for the suggestion :-)
>

Geoff:
There is another UK expression "Always look on the bright side" which, in 
some ways, carries a subtly different nuance to the "silver lining" one.

I still tend to favour (2) of your list but, on reflection, I now feel led to put 
forward an alternative which  would be something like "Well, that's a 
relief to hear".





From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Thu Jun  4 20:28:48 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:28:48 -0300
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
Message-ID: <4A282E80.3080403@rescueddoggies.com>

Idioms are always difficult in a second language.  As a ntive Brit., I 
haven't even begun to understand Argentinian idioms. Just trying to 
understand the basics of their version of Spanish is hard enough.  But I 
do note that the translations on the DVD often do not convey the same 
meanings.

Brian



From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  5 04:40:47 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:40:47 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h08qlq+ijnr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0a7kf+1sfg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:

> I need to check, but I think we do have an expression 
> "the bright side" 


It turns out we don't have a "bright side", we have a "positive side" in Russian :-). Am I forgetting my own language :-)? Anyway, thank you very much, everyone, lots of great ideas, I'll put them to good use :-).


zanooda




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Jun  5 14:14:30 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:14:30 -0000
Subject: The time has come, the Walrus said.... (long)
In-Reply-To: <h01i7q+8jp6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0b986+uuk0@eGroups.com>

Geoff wrote:
> ******
> Christian faith does not deny the existence of Science and there is a 
> considerable body of scientific opinion which does not deny the 
> existence of faith.

Potioncat:
What a post! I snipped most of it because I'm really saying "me too.'

There is a large segment of people, or at least a visible one in the US who have made a mental split between science and faith. It's on both sides; that is, scientists who disdain faith and Christians who reject science. There is a controversy in some schools over science books and the theory of evolution. I don't know if it's true for other countries as well.

Americans like to decorate their cars with statements and symbols that say something about them. A very common decal for cars is the Christian symbol--the fish. Then there is a fish with feet with the word DARWIN on it. And another with one fish eating the other (at the moment I can't remember if Darwin was eating the faith fish, or if it was the other way around.)

Again, me too. And I really like the explanation for why the water is boiling.

Kettle's on. Who wants tea?




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Jun  5 15:59:14 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:59:14 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The time has come, the Walrus said.... (long)
In-Reply-To: <h0b986+uuk0@eGroups.com>
References: <h01i7q+8jp6@eGroups.com> <h0b986+uuk0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001401c9e5f6$93518ac0$b9f4a040$@com>



-----Original Message-----

Geoff wrote:
> ******
> Christian faith does not deny the existence of Science and there is a 
> considerable body of scientific opinion which does not deny the 
> existence of faith.

Potioncat:
What a post! I snipped most of it because I'm really saying "me too.'
::::::::

There's a considerable body of "Christian scientific" opinion which does not
deny the existence of god.

And I'm really sure NO ONE denies the existence of "faith" :-D

md




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Jun  5 22:25:20 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:25:20 -0000
Subject: The time has come, the Walrus said.... (long)
In-Reply-To: <h0b986+uuk0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0c60g+ssh7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
> > Christian faith does not deny the existence of Science and there is a 
> > considerable body of scientific opinion which does not deny the 
> > existence of faith.
 
Potioncat:
> What a post! I snipped most of it because I'm really saying "me too.'
> 
> There is a large segment of people, or at least a visible one in the US who have made a mental split between science and faith. It's on both sides; that is, scientists who disdain faith and Christians who reject science. There is a controversy in some schools over science books and the theory of evolution. I don't know if it's true for other countries as well.

Geoff:
I'm in the middle of reading a very interesting book I came across at Spring 
Harvest. This is one of the biggest Christian conventions/celebrations in the 
UK, held around Eastertime, and one of the venues is Minehead, 7 miles from 
where we live.

The book is "The Selfless Gene: Living with God and Darwin" by Charles Foster, 
who is a noted Christian thinker. The name is a parody of "The Selfish Gene" the 
well-known pro-evolution by Richard Dawkins. In it, the author tackles the 
theories put forward by the Neo-Darwinists, of whom Dawkins is one of the 
most strident and patronising and, on the other side,  the Young Earth 
Creationists. In this book, he has written one of the best analyses of the first 
couple of chapters of Genesis I have read showing how they can be reconciled 
with the ideas of Darwin.

Potioncat:
> Americans like to decorate their cars with statements and symbols that say something about them. A very common decal for cars is the Christian symbol--the fish. Then there is a fish with feet with the word DARWIN on it. And another with one fish eating the other (at the moment I can't remember if Darwin was eating the faith fish, or if it was the other way around.)
> 
> Again, me too. And I really like the explanation for why the water is boiling.
> 
> Kettle's on. Who wants tea?

Geoff:
Fish badges are equally common here. My wife banned me from having one 
when I changed cars last year. She says my use of it would frighten off 
anyone!
:-(





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  6 19:58:29 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:58:29 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h06rf3+8fkk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0ehp5+kcs2@eGroups.com>

zanooda:
> 
> I don't intend to analyze it, I just need to translate it, LOL! Or rather, to help someone else to translate it :-). I can't think of the exact same idiom in my language, plus the "I was looking for" part is rather confusing, so I need to find a way to say it differently. What would it be: 1. "This is my only consolation". 2. "This is what I wanted to hear". 3. "I knew there must be something good in all this" or something else :-)? One more thing: do you guys also think she says it a little ironically, or is she dead serious :-)?
>
Carol responds:

Isn't there any equivalent Russian expression? The idea is that every bad thing (in this case, Harry's going off to fight Voldemort without her) has some good in it (in this case, at least he won't be dating any other girls). I agree with the people who think that she's trying to make a small joke, maybe to keep from crying (very British of her), but I think she also really does find consolation in the fact that he won't have many "dating opportunities." 

"I was looking for" means that she was trying to find something to be happy about or at least some form of consolation. I think we can take that statement at face value; she needed something to cheer her up and sustain her while he's away.

The present she gives him to remember her by is obviously that passionate kiss (interrupted by Ron and Hermione).

But you wanted an equivalent expression. I would just say, "That's the consolation I was looking for" (or "hoping for" if "looking for" doesn't make sense idiomatically).

Carol, wondering what we would do without these lovely proverbs and metaphors




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  6 20:04:15 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:04:15 -0000
Subject: Zanooda - Bringer of Thoughful Language
In-Reply-To: <h07gnv+ao3t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0ei3v+ukdp@eGroups.com>

"Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> 
> > Zanooda has made several inquires about various phrases and  idioms the English Language. I just wanted to thank her (him?) for provoking what always turn out to be thoughtful and fun discussions.
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> And *I* want to thank you all for always giving thoughtful and interesting answers :-). Even when you don't agree (remember "that thing in his hand"?), just reading all the different opinions gives me a lot and really improves my English. Besides, if one day there is finally a normal HP translation, even if it's amateur and only a few people will read it, those who will should thank you for it too :-).
>
Carol responds:
How does the "abnormal" (official) translation phrase it? Or isn't that translation out yet?

Carol, noting that zanooda is a she and seconding all the comments about what fun these threads are




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  6 20:12:31 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:12:31 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h07jic+kknk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0eijf+hk31@eGroups.com>

zanooda wrote:
> 
> Only the 3rd one is mine :-). The 1st one is from the official translation, although I must say that it doesn't sound that formal there, because they used a verb, not a noun - I just wasn't sure how to say it in English ("this is the only thing that comforts me"?).
> 
> The 2nd one was offered by the girl who translated this chapter, and I liked how it sounded, but I was hoping to find something  that conveys the meaning a little better, with the "silver lining" and with "I was looking for" :-).
> 
> I came up with the 3rd one, but it kind of seems too far from the original, so I thought I should ask here, because if I understood the meaning of the sentence better maybe I would think of a better version. Or maybe someone will suggest it to me, LOL.
>
Carol:

I'm having trouble posting, but third time's the charm! (Er, sorry; another idiomatic expression!)

Would "That's the comfort/consolation I was seeking?" work in Russian? It sounds a bit formal in English, but it does restate "looking for."

Carol, who was hoping that the official translation would be more amusing!




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  7 06:07:35 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:07:35 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h0ehp5+kcs2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0flf7+pe3b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Isn't there any equivalent Russian expression? 


zanooda:

There is one, something like "There is no bad without some good", but I'm a little reluctant to use it, because the word "bad" is in a rather archaic form that you can hear mostly in idioms and sayings, but not in normal modern speech. As a result this expression sounds "too Russian" for me to use in a text about England :-). Plus, it wasn't used in any of the translations that I saw, which seems suspicious - it's as if Russian translators find it unsuitable for some reason. I don't know if I'm right or wrong here, I'll offer this expression among other versions to my correspondents' consideration, it's for them to decide :-).


> Carol wrote:

> Would "That's the comfort/consolation I was seeking?" 
> work in Russian? It sounds a bit formal in English, but 
> it does restate "looking for."


zanooda:

All the versions with "looking for", "seeking" etc. don't sound good in Russian, that's why I had either to use "I should have known" or to change the sentence altogether :-).





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  7 17:27:00 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:27:00 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h0flf7+pe3b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0gt94+sc4a@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> 
> > Isn't there any equivalent Russian expression? 
 
> zanooda:
> 
> There is one, something like "There is no bad without some good", but I'm a little reluctant to use it, because the word "bad" is in a rather archaic form that you can hear mostly in idioms and sayings, but not in normal modern speech. As a result this expression sounds "too Russian" for me to use in a text about England :-). Plus, it wasn't used in any of the translations that I saw, which seems suspicious - it's as if Russian translators find it unsuitable for some reason. I don't know if I'm right or wrong here, I'll offer this expression among other versions to my correspondents' consideration, it's for them to decide :-).
> 
> 
> > Carol wrote:
> 
> > Would "That's the comfort/consolation I was seeking?" work in Russian? It sounds a bit formal in English, but it does restate "looking for."
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> All the versions with "looking for", "seeking" etc. don't sound good in Russian, that's why I had either to use "I should have known" or to change the sentence altogether :-).
>
Carol responds:
But "I should have known" changes the meaning altogether. How about "I was hoping for" or "I hoped for" or "I wanted"?

I just thought of an expression that might work, assuming that "crumb" works in Russian as it does in English: "That's the crumb of comfort I was hoping to find!"

Just out of curiosity, how would a Russian say, "I was looking for a job?" If you have a phrase for "looking for" in that expression, it might work for Ginny's words.

Carol, wishing she could be more help




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jun  7 17:42:44 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 7 Jun 2009 17:42:44 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 6/7/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1244396564.471.59002.m7@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
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Notes:
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From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jun  7 23:06:25 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:06:25 -0000
Subject: The time has come, the Walrus said.... (long)
In-Reply-To: <h0c60g+ssh7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0hh5h+ufa6@eGroups.com>

Geoff wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39487>:

> Fish badges are equally common here. My wife banned me from having
> one 
> when I changed cars last year. She says my use of it would frighten
> off 
> anyone!
> :-(
>

Does she mean that your driving could give Christians a bad reputation?






From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  8 03:39:27 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:39:27 -0000
Subject: Silver lining and where to find it.
In-Reply-To: <h0gt94+sc4a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0i15f+3m1r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> But "I should have known" changes the meaning altogether. 
> How about "I was hoping for" or "I hoped for" or "I wanted"?


zanooda:

Yeah, all this is quite acceptable, and we'll chose something now that we know better what the sentence in question means :-). As for my version ("I knew there must be something good in all this"), maybe I didn't translate it back right, but in Russian its meaning is: "I know there is something good in every bad thing, and I was looking for it (for anything good in this situation) and couldn't find it, but now I know what it is - Harry being unable to date while he is away" :-).


> Carol wrote:
 
> Just out of curiosity, how would a Russian say, "I was looking 
> for a job?" If you have a phrase for "looking for" in that 
> expression, it might work for Ginny's words.


zanooda:

Our "look for" is in one word, like your "search". It just doesn't sound well for some reason. Things like this differ from language to language, I guess. Something like "I was hoping to find" sounds way better.


> Carol, wishing she could be more help


zanooda:

Plenty of help, from all of you :-).






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Jun  8 06:42:33 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 06:42:33 -0000
Subject: The time has come, the Walrus said.... (long)
In-Reply-To: <h0hh5h+ufa6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0ibsp+2hkb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> wrote:

Geoff: 
> > Fish badges are equally common here. My wife banned me from having
> > one 
> > when I changed cars last year. She says my use of it would frighten
> > off 
> > anyone!
> > :-(

Catlady: 
> Does she mean that your driving could give Christians a bad reputation?

Geoff:
Spot on. It's one of those husband and wife things.
:-(





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  9 11:18:00 2009
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 04:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Birthdays x 4!
Message-ID: <602685.57493.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


*surveys the freshly decorated party room with satisfaction, having finally got the glittery confetti to stay in the air and not fall into the drinks*

It is being very bad weather where the Birthday Elf is. Grey and wet and gloomy. That is sounding like good days to stay indoors, eating and drinking and partying!

Birthday honourees for today's celebration are:

June 3  Mecki  meckelburg at foni.net
June 5  Angela Burgess  aburgess68 at comcast.net
June 9  Melody  malady679 at yahoo.com
June 9  Sheryll  s_ings at yahoo.com

See that over there? 

*points to the weird, slightly lopsided cake of the four on the table*

That is being my cake. Don't be eating it all before I is getting home from work to join the party! <vbg>

Nibblies are on the side the tables and, despite the early hour here, the bar is open for those living in more civilised time zones. :)

I hope everyone has had wonderful days, filled with good friends, good food and many, many good things.

Happy Birthday, Mecki!
Happy Birthday, Angela!
Happy Birthday, Melody!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf, very excited that the Amandageist is flying up to join my party at the end of the month!

Join me at Sirens this fall!  http://www.sirensconference.org/


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Jun 10 00:06:01 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:06:01 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthdays x 4!
In-Reply-To: <602685.57493.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <602685.57493.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D893E0650B594234B9728EF3B512A43A@FRODO>

[Our B-Day Elf wrote]:
| Birthday honourees for today's celebration are:
| 
| June 3  Mecki  meckelburg at foni.net
| June 5  Angela Burgess  aburgess68 at comcast.net
| June 9  Melody  malady679 at yahoo.com
| June 9  Sheryll  s_ings at yahoo.com


[Lee]:
Have a wonderful Birthday, you guys.  But someone should have stepped in for
Sheryll and taken over the party decore and munchies.  I mean, golly, she
shouldn't have to work for her own Birthday, huh? <Lee waves her wand and
produces a small cake just for Sheryl.>  (Psst...Tuck it in your pocket,
Sheryll, and take it home with you!) :-)

[Sheryll]:
| Sheryll the Birthday Elf, very excited that the Amandageist 
| is flying up to join my party at the end of the month!

[Lee]:
Cool! Enjoy!  And may you not be called in on emergency shifts, etc.

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 10 00:29:53 2009
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthdays x 4!
Message-ID: <766956.64222.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) <n2fgc at arrl.net> wrote:

> Have a wonderful Birthday, you guys.? But someone
> should have stepped in for
> Sheryll and taken over the party decore and munchies.?
> I mean, golly, she
> shouldn't have to work for her own Birthday, huh? <Lee
> waves her wand and
> produces a small cake just for Sheryl.>?
> (Psst...Tuck it in your pocket,
> Sheryll, and take it home with you!) :-)

Sheryll:
Thanks, Lee! I actually did our work schedule for this week and purposely gave myself an afternoon shift. It was a trade off so I could have tomorrow off before everyone from work arrives here for a BBQ. I wanted time to make the ice cream beforehand. I have an old, hand-crank ice cream freezer and it takes upwards of an hour for each batch of ice cream. I did the peanut butter fudge one yesterday and will make the raspberry tomorrow. 

*hides cake from husband so I can have it all to myself* :D
> 
> [Sheryll]:
> | Sheryll the Birthday Elf, very excited that the
> Amandageist 
> | is flying up to join my party at the end of the month!
> 
> [Lee]:
> Cool! Enjoy!? And may you not be called in on
> emergency shifts, etc.
> 
Sheryll again:

I've let them know at work that Amanda will be here and I think we'll be able to work something out so that I have most of the weekend off. I don't mind if they give me lots of hours during the week if can accommodate days off in row after that. :)

Sheryll, who had a customer offer to dance on the counter this afternoon (a longstanding joke between a regular customer and I)


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Jun 10 01:44:38 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:44:38 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthdays x 4!
In-Reply-To: <766956.64222.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <766956.64222.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FF5FD02EEA894D3D8F65ED5A14B371AB@FRODO>

Oh my, all that lovely homemade icecream sounds super!  Wish I was there to
play taste-tester!  One of my fave icecreams that Baskin & Robins used to
have in winter was a raspberry with dark chocolate truffle chunks in it.
I'd kill to find something like that again!

Enjoy the goodies, and may you and Amanda come up with an ultimate feast in
recipes together. :-)

Sending B-Day Hug,

Lee :-)




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 10 11:36:23 2009
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthdays x 4!
Message-ID: <27289.86182.qm@web63407.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force) <n2fgc at arrl.net> wrote:

> Oh my, all that lovely homemade
> icecream sounds super!? Wish I was there to
> play taste-tester!? One of my fave icecreams that
> Baskin & Robins used to
> have in winter was a raspberry with dark chocolate truffle
> chunks in it.
> I'd kill to find something like that again!
> 
> Enjoy the goodies, and may you and Amanda come up with an
> ultimate feast in
> recipes together. :-)
> 
> Sending B-Day Hug,
> 
Sheryll:

If you're ever up this way some summer, I'll make you raspberry with dark chocolate truffle chunks. Should be as easy as mixing in the chocolate once the raspberry ice cream starts to set. 

I'm all for experimenting with ice cream flavours. I ran across one last summer that I've sworn to Andy that I'll make this year, even though I suspect he's not going even taste it - candied bacon ice cream. I imagine I'll get to eat that one all by myself. 

The belated birthday dinner for when Amanda is here will be cooked by an old family friend and her husband. They always attend our family birthdays, especially when they find out I'm the one cooking. Last year Lynn asked who cooks for *my* birthdays. When she found out that I don't normally get a family birthday dinner, her and her husband said they'd do up a big bash for my 50th. I'm looking forward to it, her husband is an amazing cook!

Sheryll, hoping it warms up a bit today for the BBQ!


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/



From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Jun 12 14:19:46 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:19:46 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
Message-ID: <h0to62+n7v3@eGroups.com>

I happened to spot a "Star Fleet Academy" decal on the back of a car window the other day. I haven't seen on in a long time and it made me smile. Then it crossed my mind that I don't think I've ever seen a Hogwarts decal, or any other bumper stickers for Harry Potter. I've seen a vanity plate or two with Potterverse wording.

How about the rest of you, seen any interesting Potter stuff out there lately?

Potioncat 






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 16:01:16 2009
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:01:16 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0to62+n7v3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0tu4c+4vdp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> I happened to spot a "Star Fleet Academy" decal on the back of a car window the other day. I haven't seen on in a long time and it made me smile. Then it crossed my mind that I don't think I've ever seen a Hogwarts decal, or any other bumper stickers for Harry Potter. I've seen a vanity plate or two with Potterverse wording.
> 
> How about the rest of you, seen any interesting Potter stuff out there lately?
> 
> Potioncat
>


Nothing lately.  A couple of years ago, on a minivan, I saw a bumper sticker that said something like "My other car is a Firebolt."  Funny thing was, right next to it, the vanity plate said "MUGGLES".

Come to think of it, back before DH when Borders was handing out those Snape stickers, I never saw one of them stuck to a car.  Or anything else, either.  And I never stuck mine to anything.

Annemehr





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 16:43:47 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:43:47 -0000
Subject: Snape decals Was: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0tu4c+4vdp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0u0k3+umg8@eGroups.com>

Annemehr wrote:
> <snip> Come to think of it, back before DH when Borders was handing out those Snape stickers, I never saw one of them stuck to a car.  Or anything else, either.  And I never stuck mine to anything.

Carol responds:
I have two of the rectangular Snape stickers (the purple ones, of course) and one blob-shaped one that I suppose resembles spilled potion. I thought about sticking one to my clothing when I went to Borders to wait for the books to be available. After all, it would match my colored arm band for my place in line, which, coincidentally, was also purple, but I thought it would look silly because it was so big. I was also afraid that it wouldn't stick to my clothing and I'd have "unstickied" it for nothing. I ended up just keeping them all as collector's items. Occasionally, I'll use one as a bookmark or just put it on my desk to look at and remember the seemingly long wait for DH--the good old days when we didn't know what was going to happen to the characters.

Carol, who made the mistake of going to the release party alone and found it excruciatingly boring





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 16:50:47 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:50:47 -0000
Subject: DataVac
Message-ID: <h0u117+amon@eGroups.com>

Does anyone know anything about PC vacuums? I want to remove the dust inside my PC case without just blowing it around the room. I understand that DataVac makes a small, inexpensive vacuum cleaner that won't cause static or demagnetize any components. Does anyone have one and are they worth the price? (I can get online one for under twenty dollars before shipping; I haven't checked local stores yet.) Any other brand that's just as good?

Carol, who has one of those dust-remover (dust redistributer) cans for the keyboard but doesn't want to use it on the computer itself




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 17:50:11 2009
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:50:11 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DataVac
In-Reply-To: <h0u117+amon@eGroups.com>
References: <h0u117+amon@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0906121050g671e3ce3m47e556776ae64cd7@mail.gmail.com>

Carol:
> Does anyone know anything about PC vacuums? I want to remove the dust inside
> my PC case without just blowing it around the room. I understand that
> DataVac makes a small, inexpensive vacuum cleaner that won't cause static or
> demagnetize any components. Does anyone have one and are they worth the
> price? (I can get online one for under twenty dollars before shipping; I
> haven't checked local stores yet.) Any other brand that's just as good?

Ali:
I will say this (and elaborate more when I'm not taking a 5-min mental
health break at work):  I've done everything to my
laptops/harddrives/etc from using the air cans to PC vacs to actual
vacs.  The BEST (for me) has always been using the compressed air and
then vacuuming up the nasty dirt webs flying out.  I own a (or maybe
3) PC vacuum and they've always been left in various locales because
they were so useless that, in a rush, I only remember to grab the can
of air.  Your mileage may vary, but for serious cleaning, compressed
air may not be cheap (and ain't that a hoot that we're paying for
air), but it's worth the $6.  (Although maybe if I were more obsessed
about cleaning and do it more than once every few months, the PC vacs
might not seem so under-powered.)

Also, you can pick up good PC vacs for around $10/$15, too.  No need
to spend the $20 if you're willing to look around a bit.

~Ali, who is more than a little thankful that it's Friday at long,
long, long, long, long last



From janelekus at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 18:10:02 2009
From: janelekus at yahoo.com (janelekus)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:10:02 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0to62+n7v3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0u5lq+ui1g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> I happened to spot a "Star Fleet Academy" decal on the back of a car window the other day. I haven't seen on in a long time and it made me smile. Then it crossed my mind that I don't think I've ever seen a Hogwarts decal, or any other bumper stickers for Harry Potter. I've seen a vanity plate or two with Potterverse wording.
>
> How about the rest of you, seen any interesting Potter stuff out there lately?
>
> Potioncat


For the last year or so, I've had a "Republicans for Voldemort" bumpersticker on my car. Every one in a while I get a chuckle out of a passing pedestrian, but was asked by an aquaintance "But I thought you were a Democrat!"

Jane Lekus






From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 19:08:02 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:08:02 -0000
Subject: "Gernumbli gardensi".
Message-ID: <h0u92i+8cjs@eGroups.com>

Does anyone know if a word "gernumbli" can mean something in some language or did Xenophilius completely made up :-)?


zanooda




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 20:17:24 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:17:24 -0000
Subject: DataVac
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0906121050g671e3ce3m47e556776ae64cd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h0ud4k+g54j@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote:
> > Does anyone know anything about PC vacuums? I want to remove the dust inside my PC case without just blowing it around the room. I understand that DataVac makes a small, inexpensive vacuum cleaner that won't cause static or demagnetize any components. Does anyone have one and are they worth the price? (I can get online one for under twenty dollars before shipping; I haven't checked local stores yet.) Any other brand that's just as good?
> 
Ali responded:
> <snip> I've done everything to my laptops/harddrives/etc from using the air cans to PC vacs to actual vacs.  The BEST (for me) has always been using the compressed air and then vacuuming up the nasty dirt webs flying out.  I own a (or maybe 3) PC vacuum and they've always been left in various locales because they were so useless that, in a rush, I only remember to grab the can of air.  Your mileage may vary, but for serious cleaning, compressed air may not be cheap (and ain't that a hoot that we're paying for air), but it's worth the $6.  (Although maybe if I were more obsessed about cleaning and do it more than once every few months, the PC vacs might not seem so under-powered.)
> 
> Also, you can pick up good PC vacs for around $10/$15, too.  No need to spend the $20 if you're willing to look around a bit.
>
Carol responds:
Thanks, Ali. I'm tempted to take it outside and clean it there using the canned air, but then there's the hassle of hooking everything up again so that the cords aren't all tangled. Last time I did that, to take the PC in for a check-up (it was still under warranty), the speakers stopped working! Admittedly, they were old, but it had no trouble recognizing them before. I had to get new ones that I don't like as well, but they're sufficient for my needs. I suppose the alternative is to clean it in my room (with the keyboard covered) and hold up a vacuum cleaner at the same time. I'm afraid I have something like ten months worth of dust in there, so it won't be pretty!

Carol, also wondering if it would be worth the trouble to buy a computer cover for nights when I leave the windows open--as in November through April, emphatically not June!




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Jun 12 22:31:15 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:31:15 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0to62+n7v3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0ukvj+tpi0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

Potioncat:
> I happened to spot a "Star Fleet Academy" decal on the back of a car window the other day. I haven't seen on in a long time and it made me smile. Then it crossed my mind that I don't think I've ever seen a Hogwarts decal, or any other bumper stickers for Harry Potter. I've seen a vanity plate or two with Potterverse wording.

Geoff:
Somebody care to explain what a vanity plate is? I suspect 
we have a different word...




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 12 23:22:21 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:22:21 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0ukvj+tpi0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0unvd+rra3@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Somebody care to explain what a vanity plate is? I suspect 
> we have a different word...

Kemper now:
A car license plate with word/phrase that lets other drivers know how awesome or lame s/he is.  The driver of the vanity pays extra for the inscription (is that the right word?)

Kemper 




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Jun 13 04:26:01 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:26:01 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DataVac
In-Reply-To: <h0u117+amon@eGroups.com>
References: <h0u117+amon@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B25209A4ECFE4BA697F8AF50770AB091@FRODO>

Honestly, Compressed Air is the way to go.  It's not always wise to use a
vacuum on a computer as it might damage boards, etc. and I don't mean
necessarily magnetically!  In fact, I just bought four more cans of
compressed air or "Dust Destroyer" as it's called; I've got computers that
need cleaning and I ran out of air. <Grin>

Cheers,
Lee :-)




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Jun 13 04:33:39 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:33:39 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DataVac
In-Reply-To: <h0ud4k+g54j@eGroups.com>
References: <b6e131bf0906121050g671e3ce3m47e556776ae64cd7@mail.gmail.com> <h0ud4k+g54j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <C27CEE9CB7214D54A47152160F452167@FRODO>

| Carol, also wondering if it would be worth the trouble to buy 
| a computer cover for nights when I leave the windows open--as 
| in November through April, emphatically not June!

[Lee]:
Uh--don't laugh, but if you have some torn panty-hoes or something like
that, cut pieces to cover airholes and tape them down.  Then, when you feel
like it, you can take those pieces of hoes off and clean them or replace
them.  They do make good dust-catchers just like Air Conditioner filters.

Cheers,
Lee (Who got that tip off of CNET)




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Jun 13 04:38:19 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:38:19 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0unvd+rra3@eGroups.com>
References: <h0ukvj+tpi0@eGroups.com> <h0unvd+rra3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9CCC700F7BEF4CCD9885F6E216931421@FRODO>

| | > Geoff:
| > Somebody care to explain what a vanity plate is? I suspect 
| > we have a different word...
| 
| Kemper now:
| A car license plate with word/phrase that lets other drivers 
| know how awesome or lame s/he is.  The driver of the vanity 
| pays extra for the inscription (is that the right word?)

[Lee]:
Or the driver pays extra for the vanity. :-)  We have Art's ham call as
ours.  And it used to be that Amateur Radio (Ham) calls were given a bit of
a break because it's considered public service.  However, I think that break
is broke now.

Cheers,
Lee :-)




From bhobbs36 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 04:48:43 2009
From: bhobbs36 at gmail.com (Belinda)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 04:48:43 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0ukvj+tpi0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0vb3b+kmkj@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Somebody care to explain what a vanity plate is? I suspect 
> we have a different word...
>

It is the "official" term for a personalized plate number, at the request of the car owner.
BTW, my plate is PEEVES.
and my daughter's (on a little black Elantra) is PADFOOT
I also have a golden snitch antenna ball =)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Jun 13 08:13:20 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:13:20 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0vb3b+kmkj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h0vn30+a6rh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Belinda" <bhobbs36 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > Somebody care to explain what a vanity plate is? I suspect 
> > we have a different word...
> >

Belinda: 
> It is the "official" term for a personalized plate number, at the request of the car owner.
> BTW, my plate is PEEVES.
> and my daughter's (on a little black Elantra) is PADFOOT
> I also have a golden snitch antenna ball =)

Geoff:
Ah, A personalised number plate...

Car owners can do this to an extent in the UK - if 
the word or name fits the standard pattern.

You could not have PEEVES!

In the UK, it can fit either the pre-2001 system or 
the current system so there are some very convoluted 
examples around!!

The current system is  a straight 2 letter-2 number-3 
letter set up where the number is linked to the year, 
so an ordinary example would be WJ09ABC for March-August 
this year and WJ59ABC for September-February 2010 when 
the number becomes 10. (British bureaucracy at its 
finest!). So you have to play games with 51 representing 
SI for instance.

The older system "grew" from the very early days when 
you had letters followed by numbers or vice versa, 
the number element being up to three so if you were a 
Shakespeare fan, you could have a number plate like 
FOL 10.

The later plates were 3 letters-up to 3 numbers-single 
letter or vice versa. The single letter represented a 
year. so you might see personal plates like PAN 1 C or 
S 4 BEN.

I've always thought they are silly because if you make 
an idiot of yourself while driving or drive dangerously 
you are more obvious with a personal plate..






From bumbledor at ma.rr.com  Sat Jun 13 12:58:54 2009
From: bumbledor at ma.rr.com (Bumbledor)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:58:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DataVac
References: <h0u117+amon@eGroups.com> <B25209A4ECFE4BA697F8AF50770AB091@FRODO>
Message-ID: <000a01c9ec26$b583dcc0$6401a8c0@hogwarts>

While compressed air may work on many things, I smoke. I use a non static 
paint brush, 1 inch wide, and my vacume cleaner with its horsehair head on 
it, on drapery setting so that it is sucking very little air thru the actual 
end. I then brush the dust particles off into the suction. I also manualy 
remove the fans and clean them individualy.

As a smoker, it takes me a good hour or so once a month to give my system a 
good cleaning - and i have been doing it this way for the last 12 years. 
Static is the enemy, so I do it on an anti-static matt I bought just for 
doing it.




----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:26 AM
Subject: RE: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DataVac


> Honestly, Compressed Air is the way to go.  It's not always wise to use a
> vacuum on a computer as it might damage boards, etc. and I don't mean
> necessarily magnetically!  In fact, I just bought four more cans of
> compressed air or "Dust Destroyer" as it's called; I've got computers that
> need cleaning and I ran out of air. <Grin>
>
> Cheers,
> Lee :-)
>




From miamibarb at comcast.net  Sun Jun 14 01:23:44 2009
From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 01:23:44 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0vn30+a6rh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h11jf0+5qkj@eGroups.com>


> > > Geoff:
> > > Somebody care to explain what a vanity plate is? I suspect 
> > > we have a different word...
> > >
> 
> Belinda: 
> > It is the "official" term for a personalized plate number, at the request of the car owner.
> > BTW, my plate is PEEVES.
> > and my daughter's (on a little black Elantra) is PADFOOT
> > I also have a golden snitch antenna ball =)
> 
> Geoff:
> Ah, A personalised number plate...
> 
> 
> I've always thought they are silly because if you make 
> an idiot of yourself while driving or drive dangerously 
> you are more obvious with a personal plate..
>

Ivogun (Barbara):

And it starting to sound as if you drive a car the same way that beaters do in a quidditch match. :)




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 06:20:18 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:20:18 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h0u5lq+ui1g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h124r2+26gq@eGroups.com>

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom@> wrote:
> > How about the rest of you, seen any interesting Potter stuff out there lately?
> 
Jane Lekus said:
> For the last year or so, I've had a "Republicans for Voldemort" bumpersticker on my car. Every one in a while I get a chuckle out of a passing pedestrian, but was asked by an aquaintance "But I thought you were a Democrat!"

Tonks_op:
I have had a variety of bumper stickers. OrderofMerlin.com was giving "Harry for President" a couple of years ago. Then I had a "Voldemeort votes Republican", and last year I had a "Potter/Weasley '09".. I told every one that mean Ginney and Hermione! 

Some of the other ones I don't want to mess up so I didn't put them on the car. But I have many. They came in a tear off note pad type thing a few years ago. Only about 10 inches long. I have Hogwarts, and Quidditch, and other stuff which I can't remember. Some day I am going to make a Harry Potter room. I have tons of HP stuff.

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 06:29:55 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:29:55 -0000
Subject: Chat from Yahoo mail
Message-ID: <h125d3+od79@eGroups.com>

This is driving me crazy. Apparently there is some chat feature as part of the e-mail now. I have a whole list of people I never heard of popping up and I can't find how to turn this damn thing off. Anyone else having this problem? Anyone know what to do? I did see one of the elf's and I said OK to her. But I don't know any of the others and thought they were just spammers, or stalkers.

Tonks_op




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jun 14 07:09:31 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:09:31 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h11jf0+5qkj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h127nb+hthk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Barbara" <miamibarb at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
> > Ah, A personalised number plate...

> > I've always thought they are silly because if you make 
> > an idiot of yourself while driving or drive dangerously 
> > you are more obvious with a personal plate..

Ivogun (Barbara): 
> And it starting to sound as if you drive a car the same way that beaters do in a quidditch match. :)

Geoff:
I don't follow your line of reasoning. I think it is  
obvious from my comments that I'm not in favour of 
personalised plates - I'm not; but that doesn't mean 
that I therefore drive in a silly or dangerous way. I 
have more respect for my health and safety and for my 
car - and I don't want any points on my licence, thank 
you.
:-(




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 15:17:07 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:17:07 -0000
Subject: Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h127nb+hthk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1349j+9onm@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> > I've always thought they are silly because if you make 
> > an idiot of yourself while driving or drive dangerously 
> > you are more obvious with a personal plate..
 
> Ivogun (Barbara): 
> And it starting to sound as if you drive a car the same way that beaters do in a quidditch match. :)

> Geoff:
> I don't follow your line of reasoning. I think it is  
> obvious from my comments that I'm not in favour of 
> personalised plates 


Kemper now:
Not to speak for Ivogun, but I think you suggest that personal plates are silly because if you drive poorly while sporting one other drivers will more likely identify you because of the personal plate.  Thus, it's more clever to drive poorly with non-personalized plates so you're less identifiable.  So maybe, to be more anonymous with your (possible) 'beater' driving, you opt for the normal government issued plate because you are not silly.  You are clever. :)

Kemper





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 14 16:20:54 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:20:54 -0000
Subject: Chat from Yahoo mail
In-Reply-To: <h125d3+od79@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h13816+p33b@eGroups.com>

---  "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> This is driving me crazy. Apparently there is some chat feature as part of the e-mail now. ... I can't find how to turn this damn thing off. Anyone else having this problem? Anyone know what to do? ...
> 
> Tonks_op
>

I suspect you have switched from Yahoo Classic interface to the NEW Yahoo Mail interface -

http://us.mg1.mail.yahoo.com/dc/try_mail

which includes Instant Messenger as an on-line application, as well as text messaging, and checking mail by cell-phone. There must be come way in the settings to disable this feature. Though since I use Classic, I don't know what it is. 

Check these answers -

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqudC0LDtjB40qNGMZLRG7cjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20070708200304AAdsmNS

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqNzu0HVa_Y7sExCdin6unIjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20090609231631AAz9vYF

As well as a lot of answers on this page -

http://answers.yahoo.com/search/search_result;_ylt=AoXh1CW0nPoDZ8oYsuKO0r0jzKIX;_ylv=3?p=Mail+messenger+disable

Steve/bboyminn




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Jun 14 16:45:33 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:45:33 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h127nb+hthk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h139fd+4r6n@eGroups.com>

 
> Geoff:
> I don't follow your line of reasoning. I think it is  
> obvious from my comments that I'm not in favour of 
> personalised plates - I'm not; but that doesn't mean 
> that I therefore drive in a silly or dangerous way. I 
> have more respect for my health and safety and for my 
> car - and I don't want any points on my licence, thank 
> you.
> :-(
>

Potioncat:
Here, Geoff, have some tea.

Not too long ago you said your wife didn't want you to put a fish on your car, and I had the impression she thought your driving wouldn't reflect well on the meaning of the fish, and then you comment that a vanity plate would make you more identifiable....perhaps we all misunderstood.  :-)

Along that line, one year I taught Vacation Bible School---a sort of fun Christian camp churches put on during the summer. The day had continued on with errands. My own kids and I were still wearing our VBS T-Shirts which colorfully proclaimed our Christian association. 

Something unexpected went wrong and I lost my tempter and started to say something I shouldn't. Just as I started to speak I saw our shirts and realized the impression I would make, so I had to choke back the word and my temper and go on my way.

When I'm really mad I say to myself, act as if you were wearing a VBS shirt.











From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jun 14 17:41:56 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 14 Jun 2009 17:41:56 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 6/14/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1245001316.9.52078.m3@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday June 14, 2009
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




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From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jun 14 20:57:22 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:57:22 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h139fd+4r6n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h13o7i+fe4j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
> > I don't follow your line of reasoning. I think it is  
> > obvious from my comments that I'm not in favour of 
> > personalised plates - I'm not; but that doesn't mean 
> > that I therefore drive in a silly or dangerous way. I 
> > have more respect for my health and safety and for my 
> > car - and I don't want any points on my licence, thank 
> > you.
> > :-(

Potioncat:
> Here, Geoff, have some tea.

Geoff:
Thanks but I would prefer hot chocolate.
:-)

Potioncat:
> Not too long ago you said your wife didn't want you to put a fish on your car, and I had the impression she thought your driving wouldn't reflect well on the meaning of the fish, and then you comment that a vanity plate would make you more identifiable....perhaps we all misunderstood.  :-)

Geoff:
Actually, this is two different things in a way. Re the fish badge, my 
wife tends to think that I drive fairly briskly - I have a suspicion that 
we European drivers are a bit brisker than our North America cousins. 
But, I have to confess that, like the majority of UK drivers, I am a little 
cavalier about speed limits. My wife thinks this is mainly a man thing
although I think I could amass enough evidence to disprove the fact.

On the question of personalised plates, I think they're another way of 
showing off to impress somebody and, in my opinion, an expensive 
waste of money. My thoughts about their identification is that we all 
do the odd daft thing when we're driving - like a friend of mine who 
tried to change a CD while he was going and drove up a lamp post....

If I am going to make an idiot of myself I prefer to do so in a less 
recognisable way.
:-|










From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jun 14 22:07:41 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:07:41 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h13o7i+fe4j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h13sbd+m61b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> On the question of personalised plates, I think they're
> another way of showing off to impress somebody and, in 
> my opinion, an expensive waste of money. 

Not all that expensive, and the money goes to good causes.

I suppose some vanity plates are a way to show off how clever one is to squeeze certain words into license plate code: CNMONE (Sea Anemone) and 4SBWIU back in the days of six characters max.

But mostly it's just to be able to remember one's license plate number and find one's car in parking lots. 




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jun 14 22:31:51 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:31:51 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h13sbd+m61b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h13ton+1p0q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
> > On the question of personalised plates, I think they're
> > another way of showing off to impress somebody and, in 
> > my opinion, an expensive waste of money. 

Catlady: 
> Not all that expensive, and the money goes to good causes.

Geoff:
I'm talking in UK terms.

To transfer a "cherished" number plate from one car to another or to 
put one on initlally costs up to ?300 ($450 at a hypothetical $1.50 to 
the pound).

To obtain a cherished number, many people obtain them through 
dealers and will pay up to ?5000 ($7500 at the same exchange rate).

And nothing goes to good causes.








From miamibarb at comcast.net  Sun Jun 14 23:44:12 2009
From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:44:12 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h13o7i+fe4j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1420c+qind@eGroups.com>

 
> Geoff:
> Actually, this is two different things in a way. Re the fish badge, my 
> wife tends to think that I drive fairly briskly - I have a suspicion that 
> we European drivers are a bit brisker than our North America cousins... My wife thinks this is mainly a man thing
> although I think I could amass enough evidence to disprove the fact.

> On the question of personalised plates, I think they're another way of 
> showing off to impress somebody and, in my opinion, an expensive 
> waste of money. My thoughts about their identification is that we all 
> do the odd daft thing when we're driving - like a friend of mine who 
> tried to change a CD while he was going and drove up a lamp post....
>
> If I am going to make an idiot of myself I prefer to do so in a less 
> recognisable way.
> :-|
Ivogun (Barbara)

Peace. I tell people too that I will not put bumper stickers (or a fish) on my car because my driving sometimes upsets other drivers. OUCH It is so bad that my husband insisted recently on driving home after his hospitalization. But I agree with your wife in general about male drivers and speed, but it's young men who as a group who are the worst. (Insurance statistics bear that out.)  Having said that, I live in South Florida which in a recent poll was voted as having the rudest  drivers in the US. We also have the most dangerous intersection (by far) in the US too. Fast and aggressive driving is common here.






From Mhochberg at aol.com  Mon Jun 15 02:28:44 2009
From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:28:44 -0400
Subject: Bumper Stickers
Message-ID: <8CBBB78236F2693-1A68-2F98@WEBMAIL-MZ35.sysops.aol.com>

Last year I saw a "Potter/Weasley 08" bumper sticker and, while it made me laugh, I cringed at the idea of them as President/Vice-president. They would hate it!

I've also seen some of the very large stickers that came out with the first movie used a bumper stickers.

---Mary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Jun 15 06:44:10 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:44:10 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h1420c+qind@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h14qjq+stor@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Barbara" <miamibarb at ...> wrote:

Ivogun (Barbara)
 
> Peace. I tell people too that I will not put bumper stickers (or a fish) on my car because my driving sometimes upsets other drivers. OUCH It is so bad that my husband insisted recently on driving home after his hospitalization. But I agree with your wife in general about male drivers and speed, but it's young men who as a group who are the worst. (Insurance statistics bear that out.)  Having said that, I live in South Florida which in a recent poll was voted as having the rudest  drivers in the US. We also have the most dangerous intersection (by far) in the US too. Fast and aggressive driving is common here.

Geoff:
The insurance statistics over here probably agree but there is a growing 
core of younger women drivers -often business professionals - who take 
to driving around very aggressively in small sports saloons.

Again, I was driving home last night on my way back from Cardiff doing 
about 60 mph on a straight stretch of road a mile or so from home when 
I was cut up by a woman driver in a big Audi saloon driving at about 75 
who then had to slow down abruptly approaching a series of curves; she 
obviously didn't know the road.

I not being sexist but merely making the point that young male drivers are 
not the only "accidents looking for somewhere to happen"on the roads over 
here.
:-)

Where's my tin hat?




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Mon Jun 15 08:14:06 2009
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:14:06 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h14qjq+stor@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h14vse+juiq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> 
> Geoff:
> The insurance statistics over here probably agree but there is a growing 
> core of younger women drivers -often business professionals - who take 
> to driving around very aggressively in small sports saloons.
> 
> Again, I was driving home last night on my way back from Cardiff doing 
> about 60 mph on a straight stretch of road a mile or so from home when 
> I was cut up by a woman driver in a big Audi saloon driving at about 75 
> who then had to slow down abruptly approaching a series of curves; she 
> obviously didn't know the road.
> 
> I not being sexist but merely making the point that young male drivers are 
> not the only "accidents looking for somewhere to happen"on the roads over 
> here.
> :-)
> 
> Where's my tin hat?
>


Anne Squires:

My goodness, it is fascinating to me that there are so many differences between American English and British English.  Okay--- I have never ever heard a car referred to as a "saloon" before.  In fact I thought at first that you had mistyped "sedan" until I saw that you had actually written the word twice--- each time you were obviously referring to a type of car.  To me a "saloon" is an old fashioned word for bar.  It is a word I would expect to hear only in a Western, "I'm going to the saloon to find the man who shot my pa."

In the US drivers "cut you off" in traffic.  No one  "cuts you up"  unless that person is Jeffry Dahmer or Jack the Ripper. 

Also, what in the world do you mean when you say, "Where's my tin hat?"  I tried googling that expression, but I couldn't find the meaning.

BTW, I think young people (teenagers) of both sexes have the most car accidents.  I don't have any proof or stats; it's just an overall impression I have.  What is the driving age in the UK?  In the US I think it varies from state to state.  In GA. you can get a permit at 15 and a license at 16.  

If you want to see some crazy, aggressive drivers you should see how people drive in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area of North Carolina.  When they merge into traffic or change lanes a flashing signal doesn't mean, "Let me in please," it means, "Here I come, ready or not." Actually, strike that, you are lucky if the other driver even signals.  And I thought drivers in Atlanta (near where I live) were aggressive until I recently drove through NC.  Wow, what a difference imho.

Anne Squires




From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 13:49:54 2009
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:49:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Chat from Yahoo mail
In-Reply-To: <h125d3+od79@eGroups.com>
References: <h125d3+od79@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0906150649pb09953dx6bc03a3f90999769@mail.gmail.com>

Tonks_op:
> This is driving me crazy. Apparently there is some chat feature as part of
> the e-mail now. I have a whole list of people I never heard of popping up
> and I can't find how to turn this damn thing off. Anyone else having this
> problem? Anyone know what to do? I did see one of the elf's and I said OK to
> her. But I don't know any of the others and thought they were just spammers,
> or stalkers.

Ali:
Easy peasy!  :)

Towards the top left-hand corner of your Yahoo! mail window (might be
on all the Yahoo! windows but I'm in my mailbox now), right next to
where it says "Hi, tonks_op," will be a little dot (probably orange
for available since that's the default) and a word (either Available,
Busy, or Invisible).  Next to that word will be a tiny little
triangle.  Click on that, and you'll get a drop down menu where you'll
be able to select "Sign out of chat" (4th option down).  That'll won't
turn off the function, but it will turn off IM, which is effectively
the same thing.  :)

I can also provide screenshots if you want them.

Good luck!

~Ali



From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 15 15:46:05 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:46:05 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h14vse+juiq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h15qbt+pc9l@eGroups.com>

> Anne Squires:

> Also, what in the world do you mean when you say, "Where's my tin hat?"  I tried googling that expression, but I couldn't find the meaning.

Magpie:
I've no idea what it means in the post in quesion but "tinhat" in fandom refers to groups of fans obsessed with "secret" romances between actors. The word coming from the people who wear tinfoil hats to interfere with alien transmissions being beamed into their heads. Iow, crazy people picking up crazy secret transmissions.

-m




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 15 17:09:03 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:09:03 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h14vse+juiq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h15v7f+i0o5@eGroups.com>

Anne Squires wrote:
> If you want to see some crazy, aggressive drivers you should see how people drive in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area of North Carolina.  When they merge into traffic or change lanes a flashing signal doesn't mean, "Let me in please," it means, "Here I come, ready or not." Actually, strike that, you are lucky if the other driver even signals.  And I thought drivers in Atlanta (near where I live) were aggressive until I recently drove through NC.  Wow, what a difference imho.

Carol responds:
How things change! When I was in North Carolina ages ago (I was twenty or so at the time), North Carolina drivers signaled to indicate that the driver in front of them was about to make a right turn. It was a chain reaction. You, the driver, turned on your signal, too, so that everyone behind you knew to slow down. Then, when the driver or drivers had turned, you turned your own signal off (if you remembered). It was probably a dangerous practice, since discontinued(?), but it was intended as a courtesy. I also remember that my (then) husband got a warning but not a ticket for turning right on red; the policeman saw our Arizona plates and said that he knew right on red was legal in Arizona but it was illegal in NC. Maybe courtesy among both drivers and police has declined since then.

Anyway, the most aggressive drivers I know of are on the California freeways, which I will not drive under any circumstances. Fortunately, my sister and brother-in-law are used to them, so I have transportation when I go there.

Carol, guessing that Tucson drivers are about average in terms of courtesy





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Jun 15 20:51:55 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:51:55 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h14vse+juiq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h16c9b+g2vl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" <tfaucette6387 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > The insurance statistics over here probably agree but there is a growing 
> > core of younger women drivers -often business professionals - who take 
> > to driving around very aggressively in small sports saloons.
> > 
> > Again, I was driving home last night on my way back from Cardiff doing 
> > about 60 mph on a straight stretch of road a mile or so from home when 
> > I was cut up by a woman driver in a big Audi saloon driving at about 75 
> > who then had to slow down abruptly approaching a series of curves; she 
> > obviously didn't know the road.
> > 
> > I not being sexist but merely making the point that young male drivers are 
> > not the only "accidents looking for somewhere to happen"on the roads over 
> > here.
> > :-)
> > 
> > Where's my tin hat?
> >
> 
> 
> Anne Squires:
> 
> My goodness, it is fascinating to me that there are so many differences between American English and British English.  Okay--- I have never ever heard a car referred to as a "saloon" before.  In fact I thought at first that you had mistyped "sedan" until I saw that you had actually written the word twice--- each time you were obviously referring to a type of car.  To me a "saloon" is an old fashioned word for bar.  It is a word I would expect to hear only in a Western, "I'm going to the saloon to find the man who shot my pa."

Geoff:
Common car terms in UK/US which differ.

saloon... sedan
estate car...  station wagon
manual gear change...  stick shift
petrol...  gasoline
boot...  trunk
bonnet...  hood

I hope I've got the US equivalents right.

And if you really want fun have a look at the thread on nearside/offside 
we had a few months ago where we apparently have a completely opposite 
interpretation.
:-(

Anne Squires:
> In the US drivers "cut you off" in traffic.  No one  "cuts you up"  unless that person is Jeffry Dahmer or Jack the Ripper. 

> Also, what in the world do you mean when you say, "Where's my tin hat?"  I tried googling that expression, but I couldn't find the meaning.

Geoff:
A tin hat refers to a steel helmet as worn by UK troops in two World Wars 
to protect them from flak etc.

If you head someone say something like "Where's my tin hat?" or "I think I 
need a tin hat" they are suggesting that they have said or done something
 which will create "flak" in their direction.

Anne Squires
> BTW, I think young people (teenagers) of both sexes have the most car accidents.  I don't have any proof or stats; it's just an overall impression I have.  What is the driving age in the UK?  In the US I think it varies from state to state.  In GA. you can get a permit at 15 and a license at 16.  

Geoff:
In the UK:
A light motor cycle up to 50cc.. 16
A small car..  17
A medium sized car..  18




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 15 21:19:30 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:19:30 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h16c9b+g2vl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h16dt2+97ic@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Common car terms in UK/US which differ.
> ...
> petrol...  gasoline

Kemper now:
We just call it gas. :)


> Geoff:
> In the UK:
> A light motor cycle up to 50cc.. 16
> A small car..  17
> A medium sized car..  18

Kemper now:
What a great system!  We could benefit with adopting it.

Kemper





From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Tue Jun 16 01:33:30 2009
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:33:30 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h15v7f+i0o5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h16spa+b9n5@eGroups.com>



> 
> Carol responds:
> How things change! When I was in North Carolina ages ago (I was twenty or so at the time), North Carolina drivers signaled to indicate that the driver in front of them was about to make a right turn. It was a chain reaction. You, the driver, turned on your signal, too, so that everyone behind you knew to slow down. Then, when the driver or drivers had turned, you turned your own signal off (if you remembered). It was probably a dangerous practice, since discontinued(?), but it was intended as a courtesy. I also remember that my (then) husband got a warning but not a ticket for turning right on red; the policeman saw our Arizona plates and said that he knew right on red was legal in Arizona but it was illegal in NC. Maybe courtesy among both drivers and police has declined since then.
> 
> Anyway, the most aggressive drivers I know of are on the California freeways, which I will not drive under any circumstances. Fortunately, my sister and brother-in-law are used to them, so I have transportation when I go there.
> 
> Carol, guessing that Tucson drivers are about average in terms of courtesy
>
Anne Squires:

You are right about how things change.  My parents are originally from NC and they taught me to signal as you described.  Either the custom has been discontinued or people just don't do that in GA, although we were living in GA when they taught me to do that.  At any rate, I had not even thought about signaling like that in many many years until I saw your post.

I used to live in NC years ago (1981-1987).  I think the drivers in and around the RTP have become much more aggressive since the years I used to live and drive there.  In fact, I was quite surprised when I visited the area in March.  I didn't think it was possible to be more aggressive than Atlanta drivers.  I found out I was wrong.  I have never driven In CA.; it doesn't sound like something I would like to try.

Anne




From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Tue Jun 16 01:47:13 2009
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:47:13 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h16c9b+g2vl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h16tj1+6b5e@eGroups.com>


> 
> Geoff wrote:
> Common car terms in UK/US which differ.
> 
> saloon... sedan
> estate car...  station wagon
> manual gear change...  stick shift
> petrol...  gasoline
> boot...  trunk
> bonnet...  hood
> 
> I hope I've got the US equivalents right.

Anne Squires:

You got them right.  Usually though people just say "gas" and "stick."

I think I know another term which differs--

windscreen... windshield

Geoff:
> 
> And if you really want fun have a look at the thread on nearside/offside 
> we had a few months ago where we apparently have a completely opposite 
> interpretation.
> :-(

Anne:

I lurk a lot.  So, I do remember following that conversation at the time.  It was quite interesting. 


> 
> Geoff:
> A tin hat refers to a steel helmet as worn by UK troops in two World Wars 
> to protect them from flak etc.
> 
> If you head someone say something like "Where's my tin hat?" or "I think I 
> need a tin hat" they are suggesting that they have said or done something
>  which will create "flak" in their direction.

Anne Squires:

Ah ha.  That clears that up.   I understand now.  The only "tin hat" I could think of is the one worn by the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz

Thanks for all your answers.

Anne





From tfaucette6387 at charter.net  Tue Jun 16 02:06:08 2009
From: tfaucette6387 at charter.net (anne_t_squires)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:06:08 -0000
Subject: Tin Hat   was: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h15qbt+pc9l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h16umg+2qgq@eGroups.com>



> 
> Magpie wrote:

(Small snip)
"tinhat" in fandom refers to groups of fans obsessed with "secret" romances between actors. The word coming from the people who wear tinfoil hats to interfere with alien transmissions being beamed into their heads. Iow, crazy people picking up crazy secret transmissions.
> 
> -m
>

Anne Squires:

Thanks for that explanation.  I appreciate it.  I have never heard of that before.

AS




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jun 16 06:45:12 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:45:12 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h16tj1+6b5e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h17f1o+fktj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" <tfaucette6387 at ...> wrote:

Geoff: 
> > I hope I've got the US equivalents right.
 
Anne Squires: 
> You got them right.  Usually though people just say "gas" and "stick."
> 
> I think I know another term which differs--
> 
> windscreen... windshield

Geoff:
Yes, I have heard that one.

There are of course a number referring to the roads and 
their infrastructure. Ones which come easily to mind are:

Pavement=sidewalk
Roadway=pavement
Dual carriageway=divided highway?
Motorway=Interstate
Level crossing= grade crossing?
Tramway=street car/trolley car?

the last refers to a railway/road crossing. I'm not sure if I've 
got the US versions correct where I've put a question mark. 
Corrections welcome!

This thread could extend and go on for years!!

Over to you.
:-)




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Jun 16 13:31:19 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:31:19 -0000
Subject: Traffic (was Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h16spa+b9n5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h186r7+t7jo@eGroups.com>

Anne:
> 
> I used to live in NC years ago (1981-1987).  I think the drivers in and around the RTP have become much more aggressive since the years I used to live and drive there.  In fact, I was quite surprised when I visited the area in March.  I didn't think it was possible to be more aggressive than Atlanta drivers.  I found out I was wrong.  I have never driven In CA.; it doesn't sound like something I would like to try.


Potioncat:
I wonder if the farther up I-95 you go, the worse the drivers are?...to a point. Coming from VA, the more Southern drivers seem much more polite, less in a hurry. In SC no cars don't drive as close, or cut off other cars as they do around the DC area. When I'm the driver in SC my brother complains that I drive too close and cut off others, when I think I had lots of room.....maybe I should listen to him, he's a driving instructor. (Good thing there isn't a fish on my car.)

I remember a high school classmate in SC who had been taught to signal if the car in front of him was signaling. I thought it could give other drivers the idea that several cars were turning, and might cause someone to pull out not expecting any oncoming cars.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 16 20:27:34 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:27:34 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h17f1o+fktj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h18v7m+fao1@eGroups.com>

Geoff:

> Pavement=sidewalk
> Roadway=pavement
> Dual carriageway=divided highway?
> Motorway=Interstate
> Level crossing= grade crossing?
> Tramway=street car/trolley car?
> 
> the last refers to a railway/road crossing. I'm not sure if I've 
> got the US versions correct where I've put a question mark. 
> Corrections welcome!


Carol responds:

What is a "level crossing"? "Grade crossing" isn't a term I've heard, either. Maybe you mean "crosswalk" ("pedestrian crossing")?

A streetcar or trolley car or cable car is a train car operated by electricity coming through a wire on the top of the car. It provides cheap, short-distance transportation between fixed points within a city.(Phoenix and Tucson are reviving them; San Francisco is famous for them.)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/art/dict/strtcar.htm

A railroad crossing is just that--railroad crossing. (which reminds me of a silly riddle from my childhood: "Railroad crossing; look out for the cars. Can you spell that without any R's?" Answer: "T-h-a-t.")

Carol, who for some reason thought that trolley cars ran on a single rail but seems to be wrong on that count




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jun 16 21:09:40 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:09:40 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h18v7m+fao1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h191mk+hg6s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Geoff:
> 
> > Pavement=sidewalk
> > Roadway=pavement
> > Dual carriageway=divided highway?
> > Motorway=Interstate
> > Level crossing= grade crossing?
> > Tramway=street car/trolley car?
> > 
> > the last refers to a railway/road crossing. I'm not sure if I've 
> > got the US versions correct where I've put a question mark. 
> > Corrections welcome!
> 
> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> What is a "level crossing"? "Grade crossing" isn't a term I've heard, either. Maybe you mean "crosswalk" ("pedestrian crossing")?

Geoff:
I confused the issue because I wrote my last sentence and then added 
the tramway line as an afterthought.

I think you may have answered my question anyway because a level 
crossing in Britain is a road/railway crossing - on the level, hence its 
name. I thought I had heard the phrase grade crossing used but was
 obviously wrong.

Carol:
> A streetcar or trolley car or cable car is a train car operated by electricity coming through a wire on the top of the car. It provides cheap, short-distance transportation between fixed points within a city.(Phoenix and Tucson are reviving them; San Francisco is famous for them.)

Geoff:
Again, I was being unclear. I know what a streetcar is; its your word for 
our tram. I was querying "trolley car". 

The word tram has come back into fashion here because where we have 
a light rail system which includes street running, they tend to be referred 
to as modern tramways.




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Jun 16 23:00:57 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:00:57 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h191mk+hg6s@eGroups.com>
References: <h18v7m+fao1@eGroups.com> <h191mk+hg6s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <2F2D9A3643C949ECA0F22930C63E5D1C@FRODO>

[Geoff]:
| Again, I was being unclear. I know what a streetcar is; its 
| your word for 
| our tram. I was querying "trolley car". 
| 
| The word tram has come back into fashion here because where we have 
| a light rail system which includes street running, they tend 
| to be referred 
| to as modern tramways.

[Lee]:
I tend to think of "Trolley" as a street-level transport on a rail or track,
like "Street car" and a "Tram" or "Tramway" runs above street level on light
rail or cable.  In New York City, there's a tram that goes from City proper
to Roosevelt Island; it's a cable system, I believe.  It got stuck once and
really caused a to-do with rescuing passengers.

Cheers,
Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Tue Jun 16 23:36:39 2009
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:36:39 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h191mk+hg6s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h19aa7+793i@eGroups.com>


> Geoff:
> 
> I think you may have answered my question anyway because a level 
> crossing in Britain is a road/railway crossing - on the level, hence its  name. I thought I had heard the phrase grade crossing used but was obviously wrong.

Pippin:
You're not wrong. It's called a grade crossing or an at-grade crossing, meaning it's at the same level as the street and thus a danger to cars and pedestrian traffic. 

I've mostly heard "tramway" used as part of "aerial tramway", which is a tram that runs on suspension cables. There's one in Palm Springs, CA.
http://www.pstramway.com/ 

Pippin





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Jun 17 03:35:14 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:35:14 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h13sbd+m61b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h19o9i+ub8c@eGroups.com>

 "Catlady (wrote:
 
> 
> Not all that expensive, and the money goes to good causes.
> 

Potioncat:

Does it?

In VA there are specialised tags that support a cause or an institution. Those have a specific logo and maybe a slogan. I think if you choose one of those, $$ goes to that organization, but I'm not sure. But that is different from choosing the letters on the tag so that it says something personal.

Some tags use a combination of numbers and letters to work out the sound for a word. One day I'm going to rear-end someone while trying to read and work-out the tag.

I used to see a little black car with tags that read SIRIUS in our neighborhood.






From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 17 05:14:49 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (lizzie_snape)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:14:49 -0000
Subject: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h16spa+b9n5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h19u49+m865@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" <tfaucette6387 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> You are right about how things change.  My parents are originally from NC and they taught me to signal as you described.  Either the custom has been discontinued or people just don't do that in GA, although we were living in GA when they taught me to do that.  At any rate, I had not even thought about signaling like that in many many years until I saw your post.
> 
> 
> Anne
>

Not only has the practice been discontinued, but if I'm remembering my driver's exams in both IN and TN, signalling as you've described is illegal.

Lizzie




From md at exit-reality.com  Wed Jun 17 18:08:26 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:08:26 -0400
Subject: A one up, off-topic Post
In-Reply-To: <h19u49+m865@eGroups.com>
References: <h16spa+b9n5@eGroups.com> <h19u49+m865@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c9ef76$9c453350$d4cf99f0$@com>

For Fans of Clive Barker and his 1990 Film "NIGHTBREED":

http://www.gopetition.com/online/28698.html

Mark Miller: "One fan set out in search of the truth, armed only with a few
phone numbers and the power of a name...
"On one call I was transferred to a production executive. You already know
what I told him, so let me tell you what he told me: He Can Access The Lost
Nightbreed Footage At Any Time.
"My jaw dropped. Struggling to remember my already limited vocabulary, I
asked what had to happen in order for the footage to see the light of day.
He explained to me that someone, namely one of the higher ups, had to have a
good reason to pull it out of storage. I, having that good reason, nodded
and thanked him. He couldn't have been a nicer guy.
"Excited, I pictured myself walking through large dusty warehouses filled
from floor to ceiling with ancient reels of arcane footage. I'm sorry to
report, that's not what happened.
"Shortly after, one of said higher ups was gracious enough to give me a
moment of his time. I was shocked when he told me there wasn't a big enough
audience for the film and that the answer to my request must be no.
'Not even worth the cost to upgrade to Blu-ray,' he said.
"Ouch." 
Nightbreed
Correspondence from Mark Miller to Phil and Sarah Stokes at Revelations, 26
May 2009




...Mark pressed on, calling different people before finally receiving a
definitive studio 'no' to the expense of assembling an extended release.



Mark Miller: "So endeth my search, thus far. But this doesn't mean that all
hope is lost. What's important is that we've all learned two very essential
pieces of information:
"1. The footage is not lost; it's in waiting.
"2. The only thing standing between us and the director's cut of Nightbreed
is - good news - its already loyal audience...
"It ain't cheap to restore and release a movie. Let's show the
powers-that-be that it's worth their while, shall we?" 
Nightbreed
Correspondence from Mark Miller to Phil and Sarah Stokes at Revelations, 26
May 2009



...If there's a demonstrable audience for an extended Nightbreed then that
could well influence a release as a pure commercial decision, but we need to
figure out just how large that audience really is. A small but noisy group
will not make a difference here - we need to see just how many people would
actually put down their hard-earned money for this...
Remember, there isn't a Region 2 DVD release at all and the Region 1 release
is a bare bones version missing the 25 minutes of footage that Clive would
love to get back into the movie - a song, some violence, some structure...
There's also the prospect of a commentary and hours of potential bonus
content...

What do you think?

md





From jkoney65 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 17 22:45:41 2009
From: jkoney65 at yahoo.com (jkoney65)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:45:41 -0000
Subject: Traffic (was Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h186r7+t7jo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1brml+ipe4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> Anne:
> > 
> > I used to live in NC years ago (1981-1987).  I think the drivers in and around the RTP have become much more aggressive since the years I used to live and drive there.  In fact, I was quite surprised when I visited the area in March.  I didn't think it was possible to be more aggressive than Atlanta drivers.  I found out I was wrong.  I have never driven In CA.; it doesn't sound like something I would like to try.
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> I wonder if the farther up I-95 you go, the worse the drivers are?...to a point. Coming from VA, the more Southern drivers seem much more polite, less in a hurry. In SC no cars don't drive as close, or cut off other cars as they do around the DC area. When I'm the driver in SC my brother complains that I drive too close and cut off others, when I think I had lots of room.....maybe I should listen to him, he's a driving instructor. (Good thing there isn't a fish on my car.)
> 
> 
jkoney:
I don't know if anyone saw it but they released a survey of the most aggressive drivers in the U.S. on monday. New York city was number 1 and Miami was number 2.

In my own experience I've found the craziest drivers are in Los Angelos. They all feel entitled to try and slip into that half car space between you and the car in front of you. Also, the traffic signs don't apply to them.

Las Vegas drivers are all as aggressive as me (not counting the strip). You have to pay attention all the time.

Here in Cleveland, it seems like everyone just discovered that they could talk on their cell phones and drive. Of course no of them realize they are driving too slow and are weaving over the lines in the road. I won't even mention the first snowfall of the year (you'd think they'd remember from last year).






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Jun 18 06:40:20 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:40:20 -0000
Subject: Traffic (was Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h1brml+ipe4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1cngk+ordu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jkoney65" <jkoney65 at ...> wrote:

Jkoney:
> Here in Cleveland, it seems like everyone just discovered that they could talk on their cell phones and drive. Of course no of them realize they are driving too slow and are weaving over the lines in the road. I won't even mention the first snowfall of the year (you'd think they'd remember from last year).

Geoff:
Using mobiles over here was banned three or four years ago - apart 
from hands-free sets - following a series of high-profile serious 
accidents caused by the distraction of using them. Inevitably, some 
people still try to use mobiles on the move although if they're caught 
it can be a heavy fine or possibly a driving ban.





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 18 14:44:05 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:44:05 -0000
Subject: Traffic (was Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h1brml+ipe4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1djrl+uo0k@eGroups.com>

> jkoney:
> I don't know if anyone saw it but they released a survey of the most aggressive drivers in the U.S. on monday. New York city was number 1 and Miami was number 2.

Magpie:
Of course, many New Yorkers don't drive at all.:-) 

-m




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Jun 18 18:14:49 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:14:49 -0000
Subject: Traffic (was Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h1djrl+uo0k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1e06p+4evr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie" <sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
>
> > jkoney:
> > I don't know if anyone saw it but they released a survey of the most aggressive drivers in the U.S. on monday. New York city was number 1 and Miami was number 2.
> 
> Magpie:
> Of course, many New Yorkers don't drive at all.:-) 

Geoff:
I have been reminded of an occasion many, many years ago, when I 
was with an exchange group of pupils in Frankfurt and was staying 
with one of the school staff and her family.

I do not recall how it came about, but the husband was referring to 
his wife's driving and remarked: "Hannelore does not drive her Beetle 
- she aims it."





From miamibarb at comcast.net  Sat Jun 20 10:23:11 2009
From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:23:11 -0000
Subject: Traffic (was Re: Fishes and : Bumper Stickers
In-Reply-To: <h1djrl+uo0k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1idaf+9ru0@eGroups.com>

Ivogun (Barbara):

Yup...Miami. And many New Yorkers move to Miami:-), and we also many Latin Americans here too. I have a friend, who is normally sweet, but in a car is something else. Besides hitting several cars, she hit a building once. Wasn't drunk or anything like that, just doesn't pay attention to the road. The judge wasn't amused.


 
>
> > jkoney:
> > I don't know if anyone saw it but they released a survey of the most aggressive drivers in the U.S. on monday. New York city was number 1 and Miami was number 2.
> 
> Magpie:
> Of course, many New Yorkers don't drive at all.:-) 
> 
> -m
>





From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jun 21 03:08:11 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:08:11 -0000
Subject: Trams and Trolleys
In-Reply-To: <h17f1o+fktj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1k86r+i5sp@eGroups.com>

Geoff wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39541>:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "anne_t_squires" <tfaucette6387@> wrote:

> Tramway=street car/trolley car?

I once spent a day looking up the words 'trolley' and 'tram', and they basically mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean. It is widely said that some electric-powered vehicles are called trolleys as short for 'trolley car' (on rails) or 'trolley bus' (on rubber tires on the road), because 'trolley' is that long metal stick on top of them that draws electricity from that overhead wire mentioned by Carol.

There are other electric trains which draw their power from a 'third rail', a wire on the same level as the track rather than overhead. Unless they are called 'heavy rail' and the overhead ones are called 'light rail', I don't know terminology to distinguish them, but I thought 'light rail' means it runs on the streets with automobiles and 'heavy rail' means it is subway or elevated or on a dedicated railroad right-of-way. 

However, San Francisco's trademark cable cars, often called trolleys, are not electric trains. They are mechanically pulled by an underground metal cable (chain). They hook onto the chain at one end and unhook at the other end, where they re-hook onto the chain on other direction. I believe it is the same chain going both directions, because it is a loop/circle of chain.

And a million companies offer gas or diesel powered, rubber tires on the road, 'trolleys' that earned that name by being open-sided and having a paint job reminiscent of a San Francisco cable car. Other than the cable car paint job, I would call those 'trams', like the parking lot trams, a gas or diesel powered front end that pulls several open-sided passenger cars, all on rubber tires on the parking lot asphalt, that travel a loop route through the distant edges of the parking lot to the front gate of the attraction, so people who parked distantly don't have to walk the whole way.

But it seems roughly that Brits say 'tram' when I would say 'trolley' and say 'trolley' when I would say 'tram' (and also, which is canon related, when I would say 'grocery cart', 'baggage cart', or 'vending cart', which is human powered and not on rails).





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 21 16:55:31 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:55:31 -0000
Subject: Ignotus/Agnotus
Message-ID: <h1lom3+bve7@eGroups.com>

Catlady asked on the main list:

(Carol, would Agnotus been as suitable a name as Ignotus for the Invisibility Cloak Wearer?)

Carol responds:

I don't know whether "agnotus" is an actual word in Latin. The closest I can come is "agnomen -inis" n. [surname] and "agnosco -noscere -novi -nitum" [to know again , recognize; to know by inference or report, understand,; to express knowledge, admit, acknowledge].

Those words, especially the verb, seem to mean the opposite of what we're looking for (know, understand, acknowledge) as opposed to "unknown," "obscure" (the meaning of "ignotus," which is, IMO, perfect for the inventor of the Invisibility Cloak).

Are you thinking of "agnostic," which was invented in 1869 as a word for people who weren't sure whether God exists in contrast to atheists, who are sure that He doesn't? "Agnostic" derives from the Greek word "agnstos" meaning "unknown," "unknowable." I suppose it would work except that most names in the WW are Latin rather than Greek, and Ignotus means the same thing without the connotations of agnosticism.

Carol, wondering why Catlady asked the question






From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jun 21 17:42:23 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 21 Jun 2009 17:42:23 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 6/21/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1245606143.8.37925.m3@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday June 21, 2009
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

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7 pm UK




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From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jun 21 19:13:18 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:13:18 -0000
Subject: Trams, Light Rail and Trolleybuses
In-Reply-To: <h1k86r+i5sp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1m0oe+47mo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> wrote:
>
> Geoff wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39541>:

> > Tramway=street car/trolley car?

Geoff:
I debated whether to reply to a post on this a few days ago and it was a 
case of a long reply or no reply so, being short of time, the latter option 
won.

However, your reply shows so many divergences between UK and US usage  
that I feel I must enter the lists. Your examples show that the words 
"trolley" and "tram" are much more narrowly used in UK English than US.

I speak as a long time transport enthusiast, particularly road and rail, 
long enough to recall rising on first-generation London trams when I 
moved there eat the age of nine.

Catlady:
> I once spent a day looking up the words 'trolley' and 'tram', and they 
basically mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean. It is widely 
said that some electric-powered vehicles are called trolleys as short for 
'trolley car' (on rails) or 'trolley bus' (on rubber tires on the road), 
because 'trolley' is that long metal stick on top of them that draws 
electricity from that overhead wire mentioned by Carol.

Geoff:
The word "trolley" is never used on its own with reference to public 
transport. Most trams had trolley poles (or booms) which, as you say, 
connected them to the overhead wires. Most modern systems use what 
is called a "pantograph", a kind of bent arm which was developed from 
the full diamond shaped version used on older systems. London was an 
exception ? a difference it shared with Washington DC in that it had a 
conduit system ? a slot in the road which linked to underground electric 
rails. The other use of "trolley" was in "trolleybus".

The other common use of the word is a small wheeled vehicle such as 
an airport trolley, a baggage trolley or platform trolley (at a railway 
station) or a shopping trolley.

Moving on to "tram", there is an old usage in that small four wheeled 
trucks used in mines to shift coal for example were sometimes given 
this name. 

However, as far as the UK is concerned, a tram in the public transport 
sense has only ever been called that ? horse tram, steam tram, cable 
tram and electric tram. Trolley car - no. Street car -no. The last first 
generation system to close was Glasgow in 1962. The coastal route 
at Blackpool on the North-west coast of England never closed and is 
the only system which has run all the time.

Aerial systems have never been known as tramways, usually cable 
car system is the phrase used ? or chair lift in the case of an open 
car.

The UK systems were closed for various reasons including: political 
interference, taking their profits to reduce local taxation and hence 
leaving nothing for renewal and the fact that they were often seen 
as lower class transport, a hangover from the resistance of the 
"carriage folk" in early days who often blocked cars coming into town 
centres, especially in London and Birmingham.

Catlady:
> There are other electric trains which draw their power from a 'third 
rail', a wire on the same level as the track rather than overhead. Unless 
they are called 'heavy rail' and the overhead ones are called 'light rail', 
I don't know terminology to distinguish them, but I thought 'light rail' 
means it runs on the streets with automobiles and 'heavy rail' means 
it is subway or elevated or on a dedicated railroad right-of-way. 

Geoff:
Clarifying a little, light rail is what it says. the vehicles are lighter in 
construction,they are able to climb steeper gradients and go round 
sharper bends and often do not have a full signaling system but work 
on line-of-sight except in tunnels. the Docklands (mentioned below) 
is a good example of where to see this. 

Also in passing, third rail is not a wire - it is a full size rail. Most lines in 
the UK south and east of a line from London to Weymouth on the South 
coast are third rail because they belonged to the former Southern Railway.
Interestingly, the London Underground system runs on fourth rail, one at 
the side and one in the centre.

However, more recently, modern systems have opened, originally known 
as Light Rail Transit (LRT), a name which I believe originated in North 
America because many were fully segregated unlike systems in Europe 
where some tramways ran in reservations in the middle of dual carriageways 
(median strips in the US?). However, where a mix of segregation and 
street running has returned, we, with our usual bluntness, have started 
to refer to them as trams again as in Manchester and Sheffield! The best 
known fully-segregated line is the Docklands Light Railway in central and 
east London which serves the Canary Wharf financial centre and London 
City Airport while a very good example of  a system including street running 
is the London Tramlink (formerly Croydon Tramlink) which is a very popular 
and heavily used group of lines in South London.

"Tram" has become a very fashionable word.

Catlady:
> However, San Francisco's trademark cable cars, often called trolleys, are 
not electric trains. They are mechanically pulled by an underground metal 
cable (chain). 

Geoff:
Edinburgh had a cable system at one point and Melbourne in Australia had 
them until as late as 1940. There is still a cable system in North Wales which 
operates from Llandudno to the top of the Great Orme ? a local mountain. 
This uses a metal rope but the cars cannot detach themselves and are fixed.

Hope that clarifies things a bit!

PS If I haven't bored the pants off you, you might be interested to see some 
of my photos of first and second generation trams in the UK and also London 
trolleybuses. Visit www.geoffbannister.com and go to the Transport of 
Delight section.






From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jun 21 20:23:05 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:23:05 -0000
Subject: Ignotus/Agnotus
In-Reply-To: <h1lom3+bve7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1m4r9+ck9l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
> 
> Carol, wondering why Catlady asked the question
>
Ever since I noticed that the initials of the Peverell brothers make up the Master of Death icon, I've felt that each brother's name should have the initial as well as the meaning of his gift. Thus I have suggested Invictus for the quarrelsome brother and Orpheus for the bereaved brother. In this plan, the hidden brother should have a name that starts with A or V, and I have suggested Aidoneus, but I am impressed by Carol's explanation of why Ignotus is such a perfect name for him.




From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Sun Jun 21 22:35:13 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:35:13 -0300
Subject: Trams, Light Rail and Trolleybuses
Message-ID: <4A3EB5A1.6080609@rescueddoggies.com>

Nice site and explanation Geoff.

To cut Geoff's explanation short and stick to modern useage only.
Light rail in the UK ALWAYS has dedicated tracks, if it runs on rails 
but shares tracks with road traffic for some or all of its route, it's a 
tram.
Trolleybuses were road buses powered by overhead electric wires but did 
not usually run on tracks.

To slightly complicate matters there is now (very recent) yet another 
option guided buses - road buses which are guided by kerbs for some of 
their route (or so I understand, I've never seen them) - example the new 
routes from Dartford to Gravesend connecting with the station for the 
HighSpeedOne line carrying High Speed Trains from London to Kent and 
Eurostar trains to the continent.

In the 1990s (Harry Potter era), you can mostly forget trams, trolleys 
and light rail.  Public transport was buses or trains or underground 
train (what Americans would call a subway - in the UK a subway is a way 
for pedestrians to cross the street through a tunnel (or subway) under 
the street).


For general US/UK differences (and errors authors commonl make with an 
emphasis on HP, schools and food), see my page 
www.thesiteofbrian.com/cultural/

Brian



From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 22 00:32:13 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:32:13 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
Message-ID: <h1mjed+jgpl@eGroups.com>

In the 'Trams and Tolleys' sub-thread, Brian gave a link to his
website where he explains differences between US and UK language.

On the subject of Education, he points out that students do not
graduate. They simply take their GCSEs (OWLs or O-Levels) at 
roughly age 16 and that is it. 

In the USA, as you know, they try to get all students to pass
the public education standards to assume at least a minimum
level of education when the student enters the world. Though, I
must point out, that legally beyond a certain age, a student can
not be compelled to go to school. In many places that age is 16.
Keep in mind that US students are usually 17 when they graduate.

So, my question is, what are the options for students who don't
do well on their GCSEs, yet still want to do well in life? Are
they allowed to take them over? Are they forced to go back to 
School as they are in the USA? Can they continue on in public
(government sponsored) school, or if they need tutors and so 
forth, do they have to pay themselves? 

Within limits, in the USA, you are forced to keep going to 
school until you get it right; until you make the minimum grade.

In the UK, what are the options?

Thanks.

Steve/bboyminn




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Jun 22 01:57:47 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:57:47 -0000
Subject: Trams, Light Rail and Trolleybuses
In-Reply-To: <h1m0oe+47mo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1moer+8ai6@eGroups.com>

I don't know much about transport even though I work for transport.

I work for LA Metro (Los Angeles Country Metropolitan Transportation Authority). I support some computer systems, primarily those which support the Material department supplying material for the maintenance shops. 

Occasionally I am assigned to work on something for the Rail people, especially one time I had a project about computerizing an inventory of the assets (pre-requisite: pry this inventory out of the brains and pencilled notes on scratch paper where it resided, apparently to the satisfaction of the Federal Railroad Commission and the California Public Utility Commission) for which the three disciplines (Signals. Track. Traction Power, which would be easier to understand if it were called just Power or Electricity) of what was then called Maintenance of Way (now merged into Rail Wayside Systems, along with Rail Facilities Maintenance, Rail Custodial, and Rail Comm) were responsible.

On the one hand, it's cool to go to meetings with the Rail men, because they all spent years at Southern Pacific before coming to Metro, and have anecdotes. On the other hand, I was constantly on One-Look Dictionary or Google trying to figure out what they said, and any number of glossaries of rail terms are blocked by our nannyware because they are classified in the categories of Hobby or Social.

Anyway, at that time, only two of our rail lines were in business. The oldest is the Blue Line, Los Angeles to Long Beach, which was called Light Rail even though parts of its route are street-running. Second oldest is the Red Line, our true underground Heavy Rail subway, with Third Rail power. The Green Line was about to go live at that time, and it was called Automated Guideway, but the plan of driverless trains was scrapped and the Green Line shares Blue Line cars. We have more lines since then, all of which would be called Light Rail except that the terms Light Rail and Heavy Rail were officially abolished when new management had a re-branding campaign.





From joeydebs at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 22 08:53:22 2009
From: joeydebs at yahoo.com (Debi)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:53:22 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1mjed+jgpl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1ngq2+rniu@eGroups.com>

bboyminn:
> So, my question is, what are the options for students who don't
> do well on their GCSEs, yet still want to do well in life? Are
> they allowed to take them over? Are they forced to go back to 
> School as they are in the USA? Can they continue on in public
> (government sponsored) school, or if they need tutors and so 
> forth, do they have to pay themselves? 
> 
> Within limits, in the USA, you are forced to keep going to 
> school until you get it right; until you make the minimum grade.
> 
> In the UK, what are the options?

Joeydebs:
No, you don't carry in school and you aren't forced even if you get no GCSEs at all but there are options. Not having been in that situation - I did well at GCSE and carried on to do my A Levels - it's difficult to state though I've heard of some options:

1. Just going straight into full-time work
2. I think you can re-take GCSEs at any point in life but they cost though I'm not sure about under 19s (anyone know?)

If you get SOME GCSEs there are apprenticeships that only ask four or more GCSEs at grade C (that's the minimum pass).

Obviously, that's not definitive but I think it might be the limit of options...though it's also possible to get on some degrees I've seen with just English, Maths and Science at C (they're the *really* important ones because a lot of jobs demand at the least the former two).




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 22 18:30:01 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:30:01 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1mjed+jgpl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1oij9+j8uj@eGroups.com>

Steve bboyminn wrote:
><snip>
> Keep in mind that US students are usually 17 when they graduate.
><snip>

Carol responds:

That was true when I was young and students who entered kindergarten had to be five years old before December 31 of the year they entered school, meaning that kids whose birthdays were in September through December entered kindergarten at four and only those whose birthdays were in January through May were 18 when they graduated. 

Now, however, at least in Arizona, kids have to be five years old when they *enter* kindergarten. I think the cut-off date is August 31, just as it is in the HP books (only, of course, the age is 11, not five). In consequence, only one quarter of the students, those with summer birthdays (June through August) are still 17 when they graduate. The majority are 18. (I was born in April, so I'd have been 18 regardless of the cut-off date.)

(In the HP books, since the summer holidays are just two months long, 5/6 of the students would be 18 when they finished Hogwarts--took their NEWTs if they don't actually graduate! Only those like Harry and Ginny with July or August birthdays would still be 17. Even Draco, with his June birthday, would have turned 18 before he finished school. James, born in May, Remus, born in March, and Severus and Lily, both born in January, would all have been 18. [Hermione was already 18 in September of what would have been her seventh year if she'd stayed at Hogwarts and must have been 19 when she finally took her NEWTs!] I think that JKR's own summer birthday, the same as Harry's, sometimes causes her to forget that most students don't remain the same age during a given school year. Why she persists in thinking that Fred and Dumbledore died in 1997, not 1998, I don't know. Maybe she forgets that the year itself also changes--the seventh year starts out as 1997, true, but it doesn't stay there.)

Carol, just picking up on this one point and aware that other states may have different laws from Arizona (or the WW)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Jun 22 20:02:26 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:02:26 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1oij9+j8uj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1oo0i+d7l1@eGroups.com>

Geoff:
I thought the best way to answer the questions which have arisen in 
this thread would be to give a general overview of school exam 
development since the 1950s.

I feel qualified to do this having gone through the system at that time 
and also having been the Examinations Secretary for fifteen years at 
the school where I taught. This meant that I was responsible for 
dealing with every student who was being entered for a national exam 
at either Fifth Year (current Year 11) or Sixth Form level.

May I say first that there is no such thing as graduation from a secondary 
school in the UK. Graduation is a word reserved for obtaining a degree 
either at a university or a college authorised to grant them.

In the years after the Second World War, in England and Wales,there was 
effectively a two-level education system. At 11, pupils sat an exam; if 
they passed, they went to a grammar school, if not then a Secondary 
Modern school.

Pupils at this time could leave school at the end of the term in which they 
reached 15, so they could leave at the end of the Autumn, Spring or 
Summer terms. This was rationalised gradually until they could only leave 
in the summer by the late 1960s.

Until 1951, pupils considered able enough sat for the Matriculation, where 
a Certificate was only issued if the pupil was successful in Maths, English 
and Science; I think these were the necessary passes.

In 1951. the General Certificate of Education (GCE) was introduced which 
gave pupils individual passes. It ran at two levels:  Ordinary (O) Level, for 
pupils in the Fifth Year and Advanced (A) Level for pupils at the end of their 
Upper Sixth Year.

Durign  the 1960s, moves began towards combining grammar and modern 
schools into comprehensive schools under the 1964 Labour Government 
and, in parallel with this, the Certificate of Secondary Education (CSE) was 
introduced as a slightly lower qualification for middle ability pupils.

The school leaving age was raised to 16 in 1974. During the 1980s, the 
GCE and CSE were combined to create the General Certificate of Secondary 
Education (GCSE), in which exam Grades A, B and C were considered passes.
A Level continued, being generally known by this name. This is the basic 
situation today.

If a pupil fails GCSE, they can retake them if they stay into the SIxth Form 
or can resit again at a college dealing with 16-18 students. Leaving age 
remains at 16 although the Government has been giving thought to making 
18 the mandatory age; so far, nothing has occurred.

In our area, many students are electing to stay on, either at their own 
Community College or at a 16-18 college in Taunton, 30 miles away to take
 A Levels or vocational subjects partly because of the lack of jobs. This is 
echoed throughout the country. Some financial incentives are offered by the 
Government to stay on.

Hope this answers questions raised.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 22 21:07:28 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:07:28 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1oo0i+d7l1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1orqg+gf2c@eGroups.com>

---  "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> Geoff:
> I thought the best way to answer the questions which have 
> arisen in this thread would be to give a general overview of 
> school exam development since the 1950s.
> 
> I feel qualified to do this having gone through the system at
> that time and also having been the Examinations Secretary for
> fifteen years at the school where I taught. ...


Thanks, I've got the general understanding of the system, but
still unclear what a students options are. 

In the USA, the way it is /suppose/ to be, is that the state
sets educational standards that are reflected in local community
grade schools, junior high schools, and high school. To pass to 
the next grade level, your performance has to be up to certain
standards, but these standards are verified by the school, not
by standardized tests. 

We do have standardized testing now, but it is purely for the 
government, to help the bureaucrats pretend they are making a
difference, and of course to put an excess uncompensated burden
on the local schools. 

Local schools individually certify that you have achieved at
standards and are qualified to pass to the next grade level. Of
course, the local schools base their standards on state standards.

At least that is how it is suppose to work. If you don't meet 
standards, you are held back a grade to repeat a year, and
hopefully the second time on the same material, you get it right.
Theoretically, this can happen to the point of infinity. That is
you can keep getting held back forever. Though, once you reach
the legal age beyond which you can not be compelled to go to 
school, the school tends to want to get rid of you.

But in practice, especially in the last decade or so, they have
fallen into a touchy-feely phase of education where no one 
should ever feel bad and no one should ever fail. So, students
with poor performance keep getting promoted. Meanwhile the
teacher are getting more and more pressure to meet standards,
and are spending more and more time on bureaucratic tasks, and
are give less time and fewer resources to do their actual job.

So, students are passed to the next grade no matter how poorly 
they perform. Though it is improving now, we have had students
who 'graduated' from high school who are functionally illiterate. 
The can only read and write at the most basic level, and can't find any country including their own on a map. 

But, they are suppose to repeat any grade they fail. Yet, we
wouldn't want them to feel bad, because, after all, in real life
no one ever has to feel bad do they (sarcasm)?

So, this is the USA method of dealing with poor performing 
students. If they fail, they repeat. 

I repeated second grade (girl problems). 

But I'm wondering about the UK mechanism, both theoretical 
(meaning what is suppose to happen) and real-world (meaning
what actually does happen). 

If there are no on-going year-to-year standards, a student 
could make it all the way to his/her GCSEs and discover they
were ill-equipped to deal with any of the tests. What safe-
guards are there to assure that when a student gets to GCSE
level test, that they are prepared to take them and pass? 

That's what puzzles me about standardized qualification tests.
In the USA, you supposedly have to make the grade every single
year in order to continue on, or advance. But in the UK and
at Hogwarts, while on-going and yearly marks are given, they
don't seem to carry any weight. Harry and Ron must have been
failing History of Magic since day one. What was done about 
it? What should have been done about it? What could have been 
done about it? 

So, on this one narrow issue, what is done year to year to
assure that when a student sits their qualifying tests, they
are ready for them? And if they are not functionally ready
to sit those tests, if they themselves and the educational
system have failed, what becomes of the student?

Keep in mind that in his local school, Albert Einstien was
failing at math and considered ineducable by his teachers.
Obviously something or some one in the German education
system was failing. 

Just curious.

Steve/bluewizard  





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Jun 22 21:58:03 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:58:03 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1orqg+gf2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1oupb+o62g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:
> >
> > Geoff:
> > I thought the best way to answer the questions which have 
> > arisen in this thread would be to give a general overview of 
> > school exam development since the 1950s.
> > 
> > I feel qualified to do this having gone through the system at
> > that time and also having been the Examinations Secretary for
> > fifteen years at the school where I taught. .

Steve: 
> Thanks, I've got the general understanding of the system, but
> still unclear what a students options are. 
> 
> In the USA, the way it is /suppose/ to be, is that the state
> sets educational standards that are reflected in local community
> grade schools, junior high schools, and high school. To pass to 
> the next grade level, your performance has to be up to certain
> standards, but these standards are verified by the school, not
> by standardized tests. 

Geoff:
Answering very briefly. Obviously exam curricula dictate programmes 
of learning to an extent and nowadays, there are Standardised 
Assessments Tests (SATs) at regular intervals in English and Welsh 
schools although this has been scaled back a little recently.

What is different to your structure is that a pupil does not repeat a 
year other than in **very** exceptional circumstances. they progress 
steadily through the system regardless of their qualifications so that 
they all arrive at the GCSEs at the same age and time.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Jun 23 02:48:20 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:48:20 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1orqg+gf2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1pfpk+tu9b@eGroups.com>

 "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
 
> 
> In the USA, the way it is /suppose/ to be, is that the state
> sets educational standards that are reflected in local community
> grade schools, junior high schools, and high school. To pass to 
> the next grade level, your performance has to be up to certain
> standards, but these standards are verified by the school, not
> by standardized tests. 

Potioncat:
That may depend on the state. In VA students have to take SOLs (Standards of Learning)from grade school on. From 8th grade up, the SOLs determine whether the student can take the next level course. You wouldn't fail a whole grade, but may need to take a course over. You have to pass a certain number of SOLs in each topic (math, science, history, English) in order to graduate with a high school diploma. 

Students in VA can fail a whole year, even at the middle school or high school level (7th--12th grade)

Students with special needs are able to continue in school until 21, I think.






 






From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Tue Jun 23 04:23:33 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:23:33 -0300
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
Message-ID: <4A4058C5.7000803@rescueddoggies.com>

After the age of sixteen (GCSEs or O-levels) many students stay on to 
take A-levels at age 18, in fact by 2015 the minimum school leaving age 
will be raised from 16 to 18.

As for options if you don't do well.
There are further education colleges and adult education colleges which 
aren't usually free, but not expensive.
I passed my O-levels, but left school rather than stay on for A-levels.
Years later, I took some A-level equivalent exams at a local college 
(studying part time) to enable me to take a law degree at university.
So there are always options

Brian



From wgsilvester at shaw.ca  Tue Jun 23 03:22:21 2009
From: wgsilvester at shaw.ca (Bill)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:22:21 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1oo0i+d7l1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1phpd+uo7s@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> <snip> Until 1951, pupils considered able enough sat for
> the Matriculation, where a Certificate was only issued if
> the pupil was successful in Maths, English and Science; I
> think these were the necessary passes.
>
> In 1951 the General Certificate of Education (GCE) was
> introduced which gave pupils individual passes. It ran at
> two levels:  Ordinary (O) Level, for pupils in the Fifth
> Year and Advanced (A) Level for pupils at the end of their
> Upper Sixth Year.
>
> Durign  the 1960s, moves began towards combining grammar
> and modern schools into comprehensive schools under the
> 1964 Labour Government and, in parallel with this, the
> Certificate of Secondary Education (CSE) was introduced as
> a slightly lower qualification for middle ability pupils.
>
> The school leaving age was raised to 16 in 1974. During the
> 1980s, the GCE and CSE were combined to create the General
> Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE), in which exam
> Grades A, B and C were considered passes. A Level continued,
> being generally known by this name. This is the basic
> situation today. <snip>


Does that mean that OWLS are the equivalent of O levels and
NEWTS the same as GCSE?

Bill




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 23 06:08:38 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:08:38 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1phpd+uo7s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1prh6+69ff@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wgsilvester at ...> wrote:
>
> > Geoff:
> > <snip> ...
> >
> > In 1951 the General Certificate of Education (GCE) was
> > introduced which gave pupils individual passes. It ran at
> > two levels:  Ordinary (O) Level, for pupils in the Fifth
> > Year and Advanced (A) Level for pupils at the end of their
> > Upper Sixth Year.
> >
> > 
> > The school leaving age was raised to 16 in 1974. During the
> > 1980s, the GCE and CSE were combined to create the General
> > Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE), in which exam
> > Grades A, B and C were considered passes. A Level continued,
> > being generally known by this name. This is the basic
> > situation today. <snip>
> 
> 
> Does that mean that OWLS are the equivalent of O levels and
> NEWTS the same as GCSE?
> 
> Bill
>


I'm sure Geoff will correct me if I'm wrong, but OWLs, O-levels,
and GCSE are the equivalent. O-Level is the old name for what
is now called GCSE. The 'O' in O-Level is for 'ordinary' level,
hence OWL = Ordinary Wizarding Level. The 'A' in A-level is
for 'Advanced' as in advanced levels of study. 

A-level or 6th Form is the equivalent of NEWTs. 

Did I get it right?

Steve/bboyminn




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jun 23 07:01:24 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:01:24 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1prh6+69ff@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1puk4+uvo5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wgsilvester@> wrote:
> >
> > > Geoff:
> > > <snip> ...
> > >
> > > In 1951 the General Certificate of Education (GCE) was
> > > introduced which gave pupils individual passes. It ran at
> > > two levels:  Ordinary (O) Level, for pupils in the Fifth
> > > Year and Advanced (A) Level for pupils at the end of their
> > > Upper Sixth Year.
> > >
> > > 
> > > The school leaving age was raised to 16 in 1974. During the
> > > 1980s, the GCE and CSE were combined to create the General
> > > Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE), in which exam
> > > Grades A, B and C were considered passes. A Level continued,
> > > being generally known by this name. This is the basic
> > > situation today. <snip>
> > 
> > 
> > Does that mean that OWLS are the equivalent of O levels and
> > NEWTS the same as GCSE?
> > 
> > Bill

Steve:
> I'm sure Geoff will correct me if I'm wrong, but OWLs, O-levels,
> and GCSE are the equivalent. O-Level is the old name for what
> is now called GCSE. The 'O' in O-Level is for 'ordinary' level,
> hence OWL = Ordinary Wizarding Level. The 'A' in A-level is
> for 'Advanced' as in advanced levels of study. 
> 
> A-level or 6th Form is the equivalent of NEWTs. 
> 
> Did I get it right?

Geoff:
Almost.

GCSE was a merging of GCE O Level and CSE - so the old O Level could 
be considered to be the top half of the current GCSE.

I'm pretty certain JKR had this structure in mind when she introduced 
OWLs and NEWTs.





From miamibarb at comcast.net  Tue Jun 23 08:59:19 2009
From: miamibarb at comcast.net (Barbara)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:59:19 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1orqg+gf2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h1q5h7+6u55@eGroups.com>

Actually, the real reason my local school system doesn't want to hold back students because is that they fear it would cost them more money. Students would be in school longer, upping the enrollment. While some educators rationalize not failing students because of "touchy-feely issues," in the end its economics that causes school boards to make the policies they do. 

Barbara (Ivogun)


 Steve" <bboyminn> wrote:


> 
> But in practice, especially in the last decade or so, they have
> fallen into a touchy-feely phase of education where no one 
> should ever feel bad and no one should ever fail...
> 
> So, students are passed to the next grade no matter how poorly 
> they perform. 






From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 23 13:53:00 2009
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:53:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Birthdays for mid-June!
Message-ID: <2472.26104.qm@web63401.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


*a hot and sweaty Birthday Elf staggers around the party room, hanging streamers, blowing up balloons and sipping water*

Hey, it's hot here today. Are Elvses allowed to wear skimpy pillowcases when it's hot? <vbg>

Birthday greetings for the middle of June honourees can be sent care of this list or directly to the email addresses provided below. The birthday honourees for the middle of this month are:

June 10  Sara  zorb47 at yahoo.com
June 12  Jim Flanagan  jflanagan1 at nc.rr.com
June 17  Samantha  potionsgurl at theburrow.org
June 21  Carolina  dama.silmariel at gmail.com
June 21  Amanda  oodaday at yahoo.co.uk

I hope everyone had magical days the brought good health, good friends and lots of fun!

Don't forget the nibblies on the corner table, but make sure there's cake left for our birthday people. Drinks are on the house and music is ready to go!

Happy Birthday, Sara!
Happy Birthday, Jim!
Happy Birthday, Samantha!
Happy Birthday, Carolina!
Happy Birthday, Amanda!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf
Join me at Sirens this fall!  http://www.sirensconference.org/


      __________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/



From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Jun 24 05:39:51 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:39:51 -0400
Subject: In Search Of A Song
Message-ID: <3BB46F1255D6452BA640DDCFD8B7AEE3@FRODO>

Hi guys and galzies,

I'm looking for a very old melody that might have been part of a musical,
but I'm not sure of it's origins.  It has the words "Beautiful Music" in the
title and lyrics.  I've tried to do a google search but am only coming up
with stuff that is rather new.

I don't know the lyrics; the version I heard was done on a theatre organ,
and Art can't remember the lyrics, either.

I would guess the song was done in the 40's or 50's bracket, but I can't be
definite on that.

If anyone has a noodle on it, let me know.  For some reason, it's been
driving me batty, but that's not hard to do. <Grin>

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 24 19:33:44 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:33:44 -0000
Subject: In Search Of A Song
In-Reply-To: <3BB46F1255D6452BA640DDCFD8B7AEE3@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h1tv2o+9a2f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys and galzies,
> 
> I'm looking for a very old melody that might have been part of a musical,
> but I'm not sure of it's origins.  It has the words "Beautiful Music" in the
> title and lyrics.  I've tried to do a google search but am only coming up
> with stuff that is rather new.
> 
> I don't know the lyrics; the version I heard was done on a theatre organ,
> and Art can't remember the lyrics, either.
> 
> I would guess the song was done in the 40's or 50's bracket, but I can't be
> definite on that.

Magpie:
Okay, those two words are hard to come up with! The only thing that came to me was maybe "We could make such beautiful music together?"

-m




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Jun 24 19:42:59 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:42:59 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: In Search Of A Song
In-Reply-To: <h1tv2o+9a2f@eGroups.com>
References: <3BB46F1255D6452BA640DDCFD8B7AEE3@FRODO> <h1tv2o+9a2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <A273F3AFDC6C445F8C4017235AC527EA@FRODO>

| Magpie:
| Okay, those two words are hard to come up with! The only 
| thing that came to me was maybe "We could make such beautiful 
| music together?"

[Lee]:
I've checked it out on Amazon, but the melody's not the one I'm looking for.

Thanks,

Lee :-)




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 25 19:23:55 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:23:55 -0000
Subject: In Search Of A Song
In-Reply-To: <A273F3AFDC6C445F8C4017235AC527EA@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h20isb+h3vb@eGroups.com>

> | Magpie:
> | Okay, those two words are hard to come up with! The only 
> | thing that came to me was maybe "We could make such beautiful 
> | music together?"
> 
> [Lee]:
> I've checked it out on Amazon, but the melody's not the one I'm looking for.

Magpie:
If only we could hum a few bars through the internet!

-m




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 25 22:20:17 2009
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (Annemehr)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:20:17 -0000
Subject: In Search Of A Song
In-Reply-To: <h20isb+h3vb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h20t71+600f@eGroups.com>

 
> Magpie:
> If only we could hum a few bars through the internet!
> 
> -m
>

*smacks forehead*

Of course!  Lee could upload it in a .wav file, into the Files section of this group.

Annemehr





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 25 22:36:56 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:36:56 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
Message-ID: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>

I've just heard that Michael Jackson died ;-(. I've never been his fan, but his death shocked me, because I was born the same day and the same year that he was. Kind of makes you think about things... ;-(.

zanooda




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 25 22:47:39 2009
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:47:39 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h20uqb+p2cr@eGroups.com>

> Zanooda:
> I've just heard that Michael Jackson died ;-(. I've never been 
> his fan, but his death shocked me, because I was born the same 
> day and the same year that he was. Kind of makes you think about 
> things... ;-(.

Goddlefrood:

The BBC reports that he suffered a heart attack:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/i/int/news/world/1/-/news/1/hi/world/americas/8119951.stm

but also states that rumours of his death are unconfirmed.

Mark Twain may have had a thing or two to say about this matter ...




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 25 22:55:57 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:55:57 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h20uqb+p2cr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h20v9t+d2h7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:

> rumours of his death are unconfirmed.


They show it on the news here as a confirmed fact, but OK, let's hope for the best... :-).

 
> Mark Twain may have had a thing or two to say about this matter ...


Funny, that :-)! Exaggerated, eh?


zanooda





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 25 23:47:08 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:47:08 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h2129s+m4sm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> I've just heard that Michael Jackson died ;-(. I've never been his fan, but his death shocked me, because I was born the same day and the same year that he was. Kind of makes you think about things... ;-(.
> 
> zanooda
>

I've always had a degree of sympathy for Michael Jackson. I was not as quick as some to judge when certain allegations were made against him. I found very little substance in those allegations, to the extent that it was in my limited ability to know.

I suspect Michael lead a very troubled and lonely life. A life in which every person he meet was out to get something from him, that is, except the innocent children whose company he kept. 

One of the boys who made accusations against Michael, eventually published a book, accompanied by a great deal of media hype. I never bought the book, but I looked it over in the store several times, and it seemed to be all innuendo and no substance. So, I give Michael the benefit of the doubt. 

Now, I worry about his children. Michael had severe outstanding debts. Likely creditors are going to swoop in like vultures and lay claim to everything Michael owns. But where does that leave his children? Who cares for them? Where does the money to support them come from? 

I see plenty of people fighting to get control of the children, because he who controls the children, control what remaining wealth there is. So, the kids become pawns in a money game. Yet, I ask again who really cares for them. Who care independent of the money, glory, and fame? 

I really don't know, and so...I worry.

Steve/bboyminn




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 25 23:56:24 2009
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (Goddlefrood)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:56:24 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h20v9t+d2h7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h212r8+493o@eGroups.com>

> > Goddlefrood wrote:
> > rumours of his death are unconfirmed.

> Zanooda:
> They show it on the news here as a confirmed fact, but OK, 
> let's hope for the best... :-).

Goddlefrood:

Always hope for the best whilst expecting the worst. The latest 
BBC update says he did die despite surviving the initial attack.

Let's actually hope that he is remembered more for his music 
than the sad aspersions cast on him in the last several years. 
With any luck there'll be some Jackson Five tunes played on the 
radio as a tribute; the Five always being a favourite of mine.





From celticfury22 at aol.com  Thu Jun 25 22:45:10 2009
From: celticfury22 at aol.com (celticfury22 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:45:10 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>
References: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <8CBC3FDBB15C181-C00-AC6@FWM-M36.sysops.aol.com>

It's been just a horrible week.? McMahon, Fawcett, and now Jackson.?? Wow.... just awful.??
I really didn't care for Michael Jackson but you have to respect how talented he was.? Terrible losses all around .

==celticfury

-----Original Message-----
From: zanooda2 <zanooda2 at yahoo.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 3:36 pm
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Michael Jackson.








I've just heard that Michael Jackson died ;-(. I've never been his fan, but his death shocked me, because I was born the same day and the same year that he was. Kind of makes you think about things... ;-(.

zanooda








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 26 02:40:34 2009
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:40:34 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h212r8+493o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h21cf2+298l@eGroups.com>

> Goddlefrood:

> Let's actually hope that he is remembered more for his music 
> than the sad aspersions cast on him in the last several years. 
> With any luck there'll be some Jackson Five tunes played on the 
> radio as a tribute; the Five always being a favourite of mine.


Jen:  Hopefully remembered for his dancing too; Jackson really changed the expectations for the video industry with "Thriller".  What a shocker to hear the news this evening. 




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 26 04:26:19 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:26:19 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h212r8+493o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h21ilb+hstj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Goddlefrood" <gav_fiji at ...> wrote:

> With any luck there'll be some Jackson Five tunes played on the 
> radio as a tribute; the Five always being a favourite of mine.


zanooda:

I love Jackson Five too. I hope there will be a DVD - I like to watch little Michael as much as I like to listen :-).





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 26 04:36:00 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:36:00 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h21ilb+hstj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h21j7g+n5q7@eGroups.com>

'Thriller' was my first album.
When Weird Al heard of Michael Jackson's death, he had a fart attack.



Too soon?
Kemper




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Jun 26 05:06:54 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:06:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h21j7g+n5q7@eGroups.com>
References: <h21ilb+hstj@eGroups.com> <h21j7g+n5q7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c9f61b$ec378060$c4a68120$@com>

Wow, I knew there were there young people on here, but I had no idea first
graders were hanging out.

md

-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kempermentor
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:36 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson.

'Thriller' was my first album.
When Weird Al heard of Michael Jackson's death, he had a fart attack.



Too soon?
Kemper



------------------------------------

________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

The main list rules also apply here, so make sure you read them!
http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/hbfile.html#2

Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
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Yahoo! Groups Links






From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 26 07:04:51 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:04:51 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <000301c9f61b$ec378060$c4a68120$@com>
Message-ID: <h21ruj+siem@eGroups.com>

> md:
> Wow, I knew there were there young people on here, but I had no idea first graders were hanging out.

Kemper:
Wow, I know, huh! The way they thoughtfully bottom post is so cute!!!

Kemper






From sassykat1121963 at aol.com  Fri Jun 26 07:04:19 2009
From: sassykat1121963 at aol.com (Kathi)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:04:19 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <000301c9f61b$ec378060$c4a68120$@com>
Message-ID: <h21rtj+losk@eGroups.com>

I've been following this all day.  No, I'm not obsessed.  But there are some things that are incorrect on some of the stories.  Michael didn't suffer a heart attack.  Micheal went into cardiac arrest.  They are two different things.  A heart attack involves the cardiac arteries, which are blocked, so the blood is not going to the heart.  
A cardiac arrest is when the heart actually stops.  The victim collapses, has labored breathing, or isn't breathing at all.  From what I have been able to gather through reading some of the stories, Michael collapsed in his home.  Someone (no reports on who) started giving Michael CPR. When the paramedics arrived, there was no pulse.  They continued CPR until they arrived in the ER, and from what has been reported, never restarted his pulse.  Once in the ER, the medical team worked on him for over an hour, but they could not get a pulse either.   I have to tell you something, it took 10 minutes from his home to the hospital.  I don't know how long it took the paramedics to arrive at his home, but I'm assuming it's a low number, like 5 or 6 minutes.  Now at this point, there has not been a pulse for 11-12 minutes.  Then the hospital's efforts add on another 60 minutes.  At this point, Michael's brain would have been deprived of oxygen for over an hour.  Brain damage starts to occur approximately 10 minutes after a cardiac arrest.  So in a way, it's a blessing that Michael passed away.  Because if they were able to revive him in the ER, I can almost guarantee he would have been in a permanant vegetative state.  In other words, all of the things that made Michael, Michael, would have been completely gone.  No music, he wouldn't know his children, or his other family.  He would be an empty shell.  So even though it's trajic that he passed away, it's also a blessing in disguise.  It could have been so much worse.




From no.limberger at gmail.com  Fri Jun 26 13:34:00 2009
From: no.limberger at gmail.com (No Limberger)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:34:00 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <8CBC3FDBB15C181-C00-AC6@FWM-M36.sysops.aol.com>
References: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>
	 <8CBC3FDBB15C181-C00-AC6@FWM-M36.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <7ef72f90906260634y562f96f5u8c22132e253364a9@mail.gmail.com>

>celticfury wrote:
>It's been just a horrible week.? McMahon, Fawcett, and now
>Jackson.?? Wow.... just awful.?? I really didn't care for Michael
>Jackson but you have to respect how talented he was.? Terrible
>losses all around .

No.Limberger responds:
Michael Jackson's death certainly came as a surprise.  Ed McMahon
was rather old, so his death was not that shocking, nor was
Farrah Fawcett's death given that she had been fighting terminal
cancer for a long time.

It will be interesting to see results of the autopsy on Jackson.  I didn't
much care for him either.

-- 
"Why don't you dance with me, I'm not no limberger!"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 26 15:47:38 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:47:38 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h21j7g+n5q7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h22qiq+bslp@eGroups.com>

Kemper:
> 'Thriller' was my first album.
> When Weird Al heard of Michael Jackson's death, he had a fart attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Too soon?

Magpie:
Apparently not because after the moment it took me to get it, I laughed.

-m (first grader)




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Jun 26 17:20:08 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:20:08 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h21ruj+siem@eGroups.com>
References: <000301c9f61b$ec378060$c4a68120$@com> <h21ruj+siem@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c9f682$5b1c4310$1154c930$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kempermentor

> md:
> Wow, I knew there were there young people on here, but I had no idea first
graders were hanging out.

Kemper:
Wow, I know, huh! The way they thoughtfully bottom post is so cute!!!

Kemper

------------------------------------
I'm on five list, this ONE demands bottom posting, I confer 99% of the time
and you make a big deal out of 1%.

md




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Jun 26 17:24:27 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:24:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h21rtj+losk@eGroups.com>
References: <000301c9f61b$ec378060$c4a68120$@com> <h21rtj+losk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c9f682$f55c0640$e01412c0$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathi
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:04 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson.

I've been following this all day.  No, I'm not obsessed.  But there are some
things that are incorrect on some of the stories.  Michael didn't suffer a
heart attack.  Micheal went into cardiac arrest.  They are two different
things.  A heart attack involves the cardiac arteries, which are blocked, so
the blood is not going to the heart
:::::::::::::::::::::
My limited medical education in biology referred to a heart attack term used
by laymen not having meaning to doctors. He had a cardiac event, which
resulted in cardiac arrest.

md





From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Jun 26 17:25:56 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:25:56 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <7ef72f90906260634y562f96f5u8c22132e253364a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <h20u68+10g4t@eGroups.com>	 <8CBC3FDBB15C181-C00-AC6@FWM-M36.sysops.aol.com> <7ef72f90906260634y562f96f5u8c22132e253364a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c9f683$2a8b9830$7fa2c890$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of No Limberger


It will be interesting to see results of the autopsy on Jackson.  I didn't
much care for him either.

-- 
I just want gender and species identification for clarification purposes
when referring to him as a pop-culture icon in writing.

md




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 26 23:29:38 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:29:38 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson.
In-Reply-To: <h21rtj+losk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h23ll2+72ev@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathi" <sassykat1121963 at ...> wrote:
>
> I've been following this all day.  ... Michael collapsed in his home.  Someone (no reports on who) started giving Michael CPR. When the paramedics arrived, there was no pulse.  They continued CPR until they arrived in the ER, and from what has been reported, never restarted his pulse.  ...  So in a way, it's a blessing that Michael passed away.  Because if they were able to revive him in the ER, I can almost guarantee he would have been in a permanant vegetative state.  ...
>

Not necessarily. The person on the scene who started CPR was Michael's personal physician. The Ambulance continued CPR until they reached the hospital. Michael's brains was never truly without oxygen because of the CPR, though, while not without oxygen, it was probably, to a limited degree, oxygen deprived or oxygen diminished.

Manual CPR is not a substitute for a hospital, but it can extend the time a person can go without a self-beating heart before damage occurs.

But, I actually don't dispute your final point. Likely Michael would have been damaged in some way as a result; brain damaged, heart damaged, soul damaged, whatever. 

Steve/bboyminn





From secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun 27 00:12:55 2009
From: secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net (maria)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Michael Jackson.
Message-ID: <569010.85474.qm@web83008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,Guys,I am jumping in here and hope you don't mind my thoughts on MJ and his death.

First of all this was very unexpected, when I logged in this morning is when I first found out and it just came too close to home for me. First Farrah, I even bought her shampoo growing up! Then MJ, I had 2-3 of his Lp's, bought Thriller on cassette and must of seen the Thriller video in school a thousand times! I even remember him being at Madison Square Garden! I mean I heard the screaming outside Madison Square Garden!!

Anyways I was not an all out fan, never attended his concerts or bought all his music..I remember have 45's of the Jacksons and loved the song BEN, I even remember watching the Jackson 5 cartoon after school!

So yes it has hit me! At noon today I decided to find out more, and backed and forthed between CNN and MSNBC and these are the questions that immediatly comes to mind. Who was the person who called in the 911 call? No one even considered to question that.. Apprently his doctor was not the only one with MJ because he made the call while the doctor was doing CPR. Being that he had a personal doctor, wouldn't the doctor know to lie MJ on the floor to administer CPR as the paramedic told him to do? Also apparantly the police know where the doctor is and because the doctor already spoke with them, why are they waiting to requestion him again? To me it seems they are giving him the option to go and talk with them, when it should be them getting on with talking to him immediatly since he was there with him! I also think they are thinking something otherwise why tow the car? It was also stated that the doctor and MJ met up in Las Vegas, so I am assuming this doctor knew MJ's history quite well. There is also the question of him leaving, why would he do that? For how long? They did say?they were trying to keep him alive all they way to the hospital, but there was no confirmation that his own doctor rode there with him, or was there giving him CPR. According to the corroner there was no one there to sign the death certificate and the time they announced his death in the ER will stand as is. I believe he died at his home.

I also wonder about this confidentiality clause that everyone has to sign when?meeting MJ and his family. When they spoke with Deepak Chapra(sorry for the spelling) he quite opened up about alot! He even said he would give names but will do so later after the police has a chance to investigate! That is being very Bold!!!?I kept wondering if he signed a contract. The corroner said the cause was being deferred, they did not even mention a heart attack anymore, does that mean that wasn't the cause as they initially thought?

And his children......I think this is all about the money here. I mean Rowe didn't want her kids and was paid off, so I am thinking if she thinks they will get some kind of money there will be a fight for custody. But my biggest shock is that MJ is not their real father! This could be ugly! I hope he cared enough to make a will because that might be the only way, he has a chance being that he wasn't the kids real dad.

Also his fortune...Is there anything left? I imagine he is so much in debt that if there were anything left it would go on owed debt/taxes! leaving the kids/family with nothing. So many questions, MJ has inner tormoil, he did not like his self. I truly think he wanted out and just didn't know how to go about it or know what to do but entertain since it was embedded in him at an early age. I have a feeling its going to get quite ugly surrounding his death, either way he is gone, something should've been done long ago, why didn't anyone care to help him then? Money is not the answer. It is very sad and shocking. Hope he finds peace now.

Maria



From juli17 at aol.com  Sun Jun 28 01:19:51 2009
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:19:51 EDT
Subject: Michael Jackson
Message-ID: <c18.5acf72bf.37781f37@aol.com>

There was an article in the L.A. Times today by a columnist who has  
interviewed 
Michael Jackson numerous times from his childhood. One part of this article 
 stood
out to me. The columnist mentioned going through old photos once with  
Michael
and coming across one of Michael in his late teens. Michael called the  
photo horrible
and noted how he had so much acne and really hated his big nose. He also  
recalled
how around that time people would come to his parents' house (where he was  
still
living) and look him right in the face as ask where that cute little boy  
Michael was,
not even realizing that this teenager with acne and the "big nose" in front 
 of them
was that little boy Michael all grown up.
 
I've never had any desire to be famous (rich is another matter!), and I  
can't help but 
feel sorry for so many famous people who simply cannot handle the pressure  
and 
the constant scrutiny and judgment that goes along with it. No matter how  
much 
money or fame Michael Jackson had, I have a feeling that the great majority 
 of us
on this list have had (and are having) much happier lives, whatever trial  
and burdens
we must each deal with as human beings, than poor Michael did.
 
It's very sad. 
 
Julie 
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
eExcfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidi8 at gmail.com  Sun Jun 28 16:00:50 2009
From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:00:50 -0400
Subject: Quidditch & the Masters of Potter Administration at Azkatraz
Message-ID: <5913e6f80906280900pf63c7adta3b79468ba875f77@mail.gmail.com>

The feasts are sellouts. HBP is a sellout. The Art Dungeons are pretty
much full. The tables at the Craft Faire will be fully stocked. We
have tickets still remaining for Wrock Around the Rock, which benefits
the HP Alliance and Amnesty Intl., - http://www.tinyurl.com/WrockAz -
but it's selling pretty well. We've
filled - and overfilled - the schedule with amazing programming
sessions, Wrock bands, fanfic readings, author signings and more.

But there are two aspects of Azkatraz that are surprisingly
under-booked: Quidditch and the Masters of Potter Administration.

Our Quidditch tournament takes place from about 10 AM until around 3
PM at Golden Gate Park (with a lunch break from noon til about 1:30,
and there's still space on seven of the Fog Bowl Tournament teams -
but only people who sign up before 11:59 PM on Monday, June 29 will be
able to get personalized t-shirts. So head over to the website at
https://guest.cvent.com/EVENTS/Register/IdentityConfirmation.aspx?e=f819871c-99ce-45a7-9c71-28234ff6a033
and modify your registration to join the Alcatraz Birdmen, Chinatown
Dragons, Embarcadero Earthquakes, Folsom Falcons, Lombard Street
Zig-Zags, Presidio Pelicans or Sea Cliff Serpents. You can check out
each team's logo here [http://www.hp2009.org/?q=node/99#logos] or
learn more about the Fog Bowl here [http://www.hp2009.org/?q=node/99].

Then, on Monday, the Masters of Potter Administration programming
track [http://www.hp2009.org/?q=node/13] will be taking place over at
ZEUM a few blocks from the Parc55 Hotel. The MPA track includes
breakfast, a lunchtime Q&A with the MPA speaker of your choice, a
cocktail reception, and six hours of specialty programming focused on
business and legal issues related to the Harry Potter industry and
fandom.

The MPA - including the meals - will cost $130 without a
registration, $100 with a regular registration, and $75 for Merlin
Circle sponsors.

Among the presenters will be Time Magazine's book
critic Lev Grossman, Robin Burgener, creator of the 20Q and the 20Q
Snitch, Fred von Lohmann and Corynne McSherry of the Electronic
Freedom Foundation (eff.org), Elizabeth Bland, Exhibition Coordinator
at the National Library of Medicine, Denise Paolucci & Mark Smith,
founders of Dreamwidth, and Dr. Henry Jenkins, who starts with
U.S.C.'s Annenberg School in the fall. Check out the MPA schedule here
[http://www.hp2009.org/?q=node/13#schedule]

And don't forget that you only have a few days left to register
online, or modify your registration to include tickets to Wrock Around
the Rock, Rupert Grint's new film Cherrybomb, Dessert with Chris
Rankin, or an Azkatraz t-shirt at pre-event prices.

We'll see you next month in San Francisco!

Gwen & Heidi on behalf of
Team Azkatraz
http://www.hp2009.org
http://www.hpef.net



From secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jun 28 14:46:05 2009
From: secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net (maria)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:46:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson
Message-ID: <769285.81088.qm@web83003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Julie:
There was an article in the L.A. Times today by a columnist 
who has interviewed Michael Jackson numerous times from his 
childhood. One part of this article stood out to me. The 
columnist mentioned going through old photos once with 
Michael and coming across one of Michael in his late teens. 
Michael called the photo horrible and noted how he had so 
much acne and really hated his big nose. He also recalled
how around that time people would come to his parents' house 
(where he was still living) and look him right in the face 
as ask where that cute little boy Michael was, not even 
realizing that this teenager with acne and the "big nose" in 
front of them was that little boy Michael all grown up.

<snip>

It's very sad. 


Maria:
Michael said his father (which I have no regard for-sorry) 
made fun of him commenting on what big nose he had,hence the 
8 nose jobs he had and therefore breaking the cartrilege and 
resulting in not being able to breath through his nose anymore.

Since his death, there have been 4 people very angry who has 
commented about how all this could of and should of been 
prevented. (His nanny, His family lawyer, Dupack Chopra (close 
friend)and his Spiritual advisor.) People all around him knew 
what was going on,celebrities who know pay their respects, 
also knew. He was in great pain emotionally, he didn't like his 
self, this has been going on for years. His family also knew 
this but let it go on. I do not care how famous you are, how 
much money you have, you are still a person and someone should 
have cared then and done something. This is what makes me so 
angry that no one cared enough to be blunt, to do whatever it 
took to say "Michael you're going to die if you continue like 
this". Michael was looking for help in his songs, in the 
plastic surgeries and his drug use, it's amazing what power 
does and how it keeps people quiet. These people who spoke up 
must have signed the confidentiality clauses but yet chose to 
speak out, for that I choose to admire them but I also wonder 
if he was still alive if they too would of done anything 
different. It takes a death.........and that's sad.

"Have you seen my childhood
I'm searching for the world that I come from
'Cause I've been looking around
In the lost and found of my heart
No one understands me"~quote by MJ(RIP 6/25/09)~Maria



From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jun 28 17:42:32 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 28 Jun 2009 17:42:32 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 6/28/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1246210952.11.1601.m1@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday June 28, 2009
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




All Rights Reserved
 Copyright  2009 
 Yahoo! Inc.
 http://www.yahoo.com

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 http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms of Service:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From YasminOaks at aol.com  Sun Jun 28 17:43:28 2009
From: YasminOaks at aol.com (YasminOaks at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:43:28 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson
In-Reply-To: <c18.5acf72bf.37781f37@aol.com>
References: <c18.5acf72bf.37781f37@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CBC62F14ADDBC3-5A84-B38@webmail-stg-m01.sysops.aol.com>

I feel that famous people really give up their lives to please the public. I think Michael Jackson was the most famous of all and from such a very young age. He was gifted more than any person could ever be and he gave his life making people happy with his music and dance. He will be greatly missed. My heart breaks with this loss.? 

I sure wouldn't want to be famous. I remember when John Travolta's son, Jett, died, the press wouldn't give him any privacy to mourn.? I would be driving past his house and there were cars and the media all around the entrance to Jumbolair for days all trying to take photos or talk to John Travolta or Kelly Preston. On the day of the private funeral service there were cameras raised up over the trees trying to film what was going on at the service. Helicopters were flying over. No one seemed to respect that this was a family who suffered a great loss and needed their privacy and time to mourn. It made me feel so awful for them-- not only did they suffer a tragic loss of a beloved son, but the media wouldn't let up.? How cruel they can be.

It made me fully realize that being famous is actually a really tough life. I am grateful I don't have any special talents.

Michael Jackson was a legend in his own time. He was the first pop star I ever loved. I remember growing up loving the Jackson Five and then as a young teen Michael Jackson was so much a part of my life. The first poster I ever bought was of Michael Jackson. I played Thriller over and over again. I tried and tried to do the Moonwalk-- and never could. :) I watched his videos. I loved him through the years. 

When my daughters wanted a hamster I found notes taped on every door asking me to get my girls a hamster and they were all signed by Michael Jackson. :)? I had bought a greatest hits cd around this time and my daughters loved all of his songs too.

Less than a year ago I actually went to Youtube-- which I had never used before, to find some of Michael Jackson's videos. It was a treat to see their expressions the first time they ever saw him dance. He was one of a kind. There will never be another Michael Jackson.
He thrilled us all for years and gave us everything he had.? He will be greatly missed.

Hugs,
Cathy

-----Original Message-----
From: juli17 at aol.com
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:19 pm
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Michael Jackson








There was an article in the L.A. Times today by a columnist who has 
interviewed 
Michael Jackson numerous times from his childhood. One part of this article 
stood
out to me. The columnist mentioned going through old photos once with 
Michael
and coming across one of Michael in his late teens. Michael called the 
photo horrible
and noted how he had so much acne and really hated his big nose. He also 
recalled
how around that time people would come to his parents' house (where he was 
still
living) and look him right in the face as ask where that cute little boy 
Michael was,
not even realizing that this teenager with acne and the "big nose" in front 
of them
was that little boy Michael all grown up.

I've never had any desire to be famous (rich is another matter!), and I 
can't help but 
feel sorry for so many famous people who simply cannot handle the pressure 
and 
the constant scrutiny and judgment that goes along with it. No matter how 
much 
money or fame Michael Jackson had, I have a feeling that the great majority 
of us
on this list have had (and are having) much happier lives, whatever trial 
and burdens
we must each deal with as human beings, than poor Michael did.

It's very sad. 

Julie 
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
eExcfooterNO62)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jun 28 20:49:04 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:49:04 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h1orqg+gf2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h28l00+codk@eGroups.com>

Steve bboyminn wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39566>:

<< If you don't meet standards, you are held back a grade to repeat a year, and hopefully the second time on the same material, you get it right. >>

Because elementary school students have to take all their subjects in the same group of people in the same room all day long, if a student did really well in Math and English and Spanish and Science but failed American History, they have to repeat the same Math and English and Spanish and Science in which they already did well. That doesn't make sense to me. Better they should advance a grade in those subjects and only repeat American History, even though it means they have to go to a different room for that subject.

<< In the USA, you supposedly have to make the grade every single
year in order to continue on, or advance. But in the UK and
at Hogwarts, while on-going and yearly marks are given, they
don't seem to carry any weight. >>

Alas, there is some canon that they do. In PS/SS, when Hermione nagged the boys to study for the end of year exams, she said they need to pass those exams to get into second year. I can't remember in which book the Trio hoped that Goyle would be held back a year.






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jun 28 22:12:51 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:12:51 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h28l00+codk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h28pt3+4duq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> wrote:

Steve: 
> << In the USA, you supposedly have to make the grade every single
> year in order to continue on, or advance. But in the UK and
> at Hogwarts, while on-going and yearly marks are given, they
> don't seem to carry any weight. >>

Catlady: 
> Alas, there is some canon that they do. In PS/SS, when Hermione nagged the boys to study for the end of year exams, she said they need to pass those exams to get into second year. I can't remember in which book the Trio hoped that Goyle would be held back a year.

Geoff:
To say that they carry no weight is misleading. At GCSE Level. main 
subjects such as Maths and English have various entry levels which 
depend on how a student has performed in Fourth Year/early Fifth 
Year (Years 10 and 11 in modern parlance). The entry levels have 
cut-offs as to the highest grade within the exam that you can get.

It is extremely unusual for students to be held back in an English 
or Welsh school. The interesting point arising out of Catlady's 
comment is what happens in Scotland because JKR currently lives 
there and her daughter must be attending school up there.

Friends over the pond may not know that, even before the Scottish 
Assembly was set up, the country had jurisdiction over its own 
education system (and also court system). so it may be a feature 
of Scottish schools.




From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Sun Jun 28 22:26:25 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:26:25 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson
In-Reply-To: <769285.81088.qm@web83003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h28qmh+vh87@eGroups.com>


> Maria:
 
> Since his death, there have been 4 people very angry who has 
> commented about how all this could of and should of been 
> prevented. (His nanny, His family lawyer, Dupack Chopra (close 
> friend)and his Spiritual advisor.) People all around him knew 
> what was going on,celebrities who know pay their respects, 
> also knew. He was in great pain emotionally, he didn't like his 
> self, this has been going on for years. His family also knew 
> this but let it go on. I do not care how famous you are, how 
> much money you have, you are still a person and someone should 
> have cared then and done something. This is what makes me so 
> angry that no one cared enough to be blunt, to do whatever it 
> took to say "Michael you're going to die if you continue like 
> this". 


Magpie:
Not knowing any of these people, I think it's still a lot easier to say people shouldn't have let something go on or should have done all it took to stop it--sometimes there is no thing you can do. Non-famous people watch friends and families destroy themselves all the time, often looking for help even more desperately than the person in question, but in the end they can't. Looking for help in songs is not necessarily the same as seeking practical help and having the ability to take it. (I don't think confidentiality clauses necessarily apply in this case, since speaking to the press doesn't really apply to helping the person. MJ's breakdown was pretty public already.)


-m




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 28 22:09:42 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:09:42 -0000
Subject: No Graduation in the UK?
In-Reply-To: <h28l00+codk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h28pn6+vkru@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> wrote:
>
> Steve bboyminn wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39566>:
> 
> << If you don't meet standards, you are held back a grade to repeat a year, and hopefully the second time on the same material, you get it right. >>
> 
> Because elementary school students... student did really well in Math and English and Spanish and Science but failed American History, they have to repeat the same Math and English and Spanish and Science in which they already did well. ...
> 
> << In the USA, you supposedly have to make the grade every single
> year in order to continue on, or advance. But in the UK and
> at Hogwarts, while on-going and yearly marks are given, they
> don't seem to carry any weight. >>
> 
> Alas, there is some canon that they do. In PS/SS, when Hermione nagged the boys to study for the end of year exams, she said they need to pass those exams to get into second year. I can't remember in which book the Trio hoped that Goyle would be held back a year.
>

bboyminn:

I think, now days, if you are doing poorly in one subject, you might be able to make it up in summer school. Usually, though it varies, a year failure is usually based on your average marks for the year. This would include daily marks on homework assignments as well as midterm and final exams. 

As to the other issue of Hermione saying you need to do well in the final exams to advance to the next year, we don't know for sure if that is Hermione's paranoia, or if it is a fact. Grab and Goyle seem to advance every year except when it comes to OWL test. They fail those tests to an extent that the must make up classes before they can move to NEWTS. If the couldn't scrape a pass in their OWLs, I can't believe they were doing the well in their end of year exams, yet they still advanced.

Of course, I can't really know for sure.

Steve/bboyminn





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 29 04:38:35 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:38:35 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson
In-Reply-To: <769285.81088.qm@web83003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h29ggb+gqeg@eGroups.com>

Re: Michael Jackson 


> Julie:
> There was an article in the L.A. Times today by a columnist
> who has interviewed Michael Jackson numerous times from his
> childhood. One part of this article stood out to me. The
> columnist mentioned going through old photos once with
> Michael and coming across one of Michael in his late teens.
> Michael called the photo horrible and noted how he had so
> much acne and really hated his big nose. He also recalled
> how around that time people would come to his parents' house
> (where he was still living) and look him right in the face
> as ask where that cute little boy Michael was, not even
> realizing that this teenager with acne and the "big nose" in
> front of them was that little boy Michael all grown up.

> Maria:
> Michael said his father (which I have no regard for-sorry)
> made fun of him commenting on what big nose he had,hence the
> 8 nose jobs he had and therefore breaking the cartrilege and
> resulting in not being able to breath through his nose anymore.
>
> Since his death, there have been 4 people very angry who has
> commented about how all this could of and should of been
> prevented. (snip)I do not care how famous you are, how
> much money you have, you are still a person and someone should
> have cared then and done something. This is what makes me so
> angry that no one cared enough to be blunt, to do whatever it
> took to say "Michael you're going to die if you continue like
> this".

Tonks:
It is sad. I saw the videos of him on TV showing him as a child and as a young man. It makes you wonder what happened that such a talented and good look child and man took such a turn later. With all of that money, what he really needed was a good therapist. Even a real friend might have helped him. I wonder if he ever had a real friend who loved him for him and not for what he could do for
them. There is such unhealty presure on those in the public eye. Sometimes I wonder it some of it was for PR as a way to give him an extra edge in the press and it got out of hand. We may never know. May he rest, now at last, in peace.

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 29 04:41:37 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:41:37 -0000
Subject: Snape's buttons
Message-ID: <h29gm1+nog5@eGroups.com>

Does anyone know exactly how many buttons Snape has on the front of his frock coat and on the sleeves?  Sewing elves wants to know. Thanks.

Tonks_op




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Jun 29 12:10:48 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:10:48 -0000
Subject: Snape's buttons
In-Reply-To: <h29gm1+nog5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h2ab08+m21j@eGroups.com>

 "Tonks"  wrote:
>
> Does anyone know exactly how many buttons Snape has on the front of his frock coat and on the sleeves?  Sewing elves wants to know. Thanks.
> 
>

Potioncat:
The costume department knew what it was doing with that frock coat! The buttons have been the subject of many a fanfic.

My best suggestion would be to search a Snape gallary for CoS scenes and see if you can get a good look at them in the dueling scene. That's one time he didn't have the cloak on.






From sistermagpie at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 29 14:37:45 2009
From: sistermagpie at earthlink.net (sistermagpie)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:37:45 -0000
Subject: Michael Jackson
In-Reply-To: <h29ggb+gqeg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h2ajjp+ku36@eGroups.com>

> Tonks:
> It is sad. I saw the videos of him on TV showing him as a child and as a young man. It makes you wonder what happened that such a talented and good look child and man took such a turn later. With all of that money, what he really needed was a good therapist. Even a real friend might have helped him. I wonder if he ever had a real friend who loved him for him and not for what he could do for
> them. There is such unhealty presure on those in the public eye. Sometimes I wonder it some of it was for PR as a way to give him an extra edge in the press and it got out of hand. We may never know. May he rest, now at last, in peace.

Magpie:
Not that I know anything about this personally, but he was friends with Elizabeth Taylor. I mention that just because she had a reputation for being a really really good friend (I mean in general, not just that she was close to him).

-m




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 29 16:18:40 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:18:40 -0000
Subject: Snape's buttons
In-Reply-To: <h29gm1+nog5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h2aph0+jv7e@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know exactly how many buttons Snape has on the front of his frock coat and on the sleeves?  Sewing elves wants to know. Thanks.
> 
> Tonks_op
>
Carol responds:

This is about the best image I can find showing the buttons, which end at the waist, according to other images I've seen. (It's not great of Snape himself, but, oh, well!)

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1900000/Severus-Snape-severus-snape-1972318-359-481.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/n47rqv

The Unbreakable Vow photo shows eight buttons on the sleeve (plus a button hole):

http://snapecast.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/uvbig1.jpg

Granted, that may be a different coat--it looks blue--but it seems to be the same style as the black one.

Carol, who found the photos through a Google image search and recommends that Tonks try the same thing






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 29 16:40:15 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:40:15 -0000
Subject: Snape's buttons
In-Reply-To: <h2aph0+jv7e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h2aqpf+ipon@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> 
> This is about the best image I can find showing the buttons, which end at the waist, according to other images I've seen. (It's not great of Snape himself, but, oh, well!)
> 
> http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1900000/Severus-Snape-severus-snape-1972318-359-481.jpg
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/n47rqv
> 
> The Unbreakable Vow photo shows eight buttons on the sleeve (plus a button hole):
> 
> http://snapecast.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/uvbig1.jpg

Carol again:

Here you go--the photo of Snape protecting the kids from the werewolf shows all the buttons on the front of his costume:

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/harry-potter-alan-rickman-400a012907.jpg

That oughta do it!

Carol, admiring anyone with the ability to sew




From secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 29 13:05:34 2009
From: secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net (secretwindow-jd1 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:05:34 -0000
Subject: ANYONE CATCH THE BET AWARDS LAST NIGHT?
Message-ID: <h2ae6u+n6nc@eGroups.com>


OK, Last night confirmed my thoughts on MJ's father....I do not
like Joe Jackson. He was the man accused by MJ of being abusive
to him, made fun of him etc...this is the man you saw outside
the family compound talking on the cell phone, talking to Rev.
Jackson and saying something to make him smile/laugh. But last
night confirmed my thoughts that this man just doesn't care. I
think he was solely there for buissness. He continually had his
back to the camera when trying to interview him for CNN, but
made sure he faced the camera when he promoted his new record
label comming out! When asked about MJ, he acted like he didn't
even know who Michael was..responding "what? Michael oh.."
Then saying that his lawyer was there and he could not answer
anything relating to MJ. I wonder why they can't and have a
lawyer to speak for them.... Then he was dancing and clapping
inside...I mean to me it was so rude and unappropriate. I
thought he was there scouting out new talent. Janet showed up
and she was clearly upset and I felt more feelings from her
then from their own dad. I know people has always said Mr.
Jackson is all about working..but good grief, this is his own
son, business can wait, there is a time and place for that. It
also is suprizing that most of all the family has been grieving
/in hiding and Joe seems to be the only one that people see,
besides Janet for the first time last night. I just do not like
this man....

The show its self IMO was thrown together, when Jamie Fox came
out in two of MJ's outfits, I felt that was rude and was making
fun of him. Two MJ songs were sung and I was really impressed
by the young man who sung "The Lady Of My life". He done it very
well.  I hope if they decide to have another show dedicated to
MJ that it will be in good taste and well planned, he does
deserve that much.





From md at exit-reality.com  Mon Jun 29 22:51:41 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:51:41 -0400
Subject: The Lord Of The Rings In Blu
In-Reply-To: <h2ajjp+ku36@eGroups.com>
References: <h29ggb+gqeg@eGroups.com> <h2ajjp+ku36@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c9f90c$2b593480$820b9d80$@com>

It's official, the LOTR's trilogy will be coming, most likely this fall, in
a blu-ray trilogy collection. Sounds great, right? Wrong. The box will
contain only the inferior theatrical cuts with an extended cut to follow
after some undisclosed period of time. Because, you know, they haven't
tripled dipped on DVD, we have to try to milk extra sales on blu-ray. Of
course the ultimate release would be a single collection with both cuts
(like the third DVD release) but what they want is for us to all buy the
theatrical so we can finally experience it in hi-def, then the extended when
they release it as if they were doing us a favor. They same thing just
happened with the first two Star Trek films, of course you know Star Wars
will come out on blu-ray, then, later they will release the theatrical cuts
on special editions. I strongly recommend not buying any cut of films like
these when a better release has already been released and we all know the
blu-ray will be inevitable. 

I'm already saving for the deluxe, extended cut of Harry Potter the complete
films in 2 - 3 years.

md




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jun 30 06:29:11 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:29:11 -0000
Subject: The Lord Of The Rings In Blu
In-Reply-To: <000301c9f90c$2b593480$820b9d80$@com>
Message-ID: <h2cbbn+anae@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Child of Midian" <md at ...> wrote:

md:
> It's official, the LOTR's trilogy will be coming, most likely this fall, in
> a blu-ray trilogy collection. Sounds great, right? Wrong. The box will
> contain only the inferior theatrical cuts with an extended cut to follow
> after some undisclosed period of time.....

Geoff:
Sadly for them, I shan't be tempted. I'm quite happy with my extended 
version DVDs.
:-)




From no.limberger at gmail.com  Tue Jun 30 14:13:17 2009
From: no.limberger at gmail.com (No Limberger)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:13:17 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Lord Of The Rings In Blu
In-Reply-To: <000301c9f90c$2b593480$820b9d80$@com>
References: <h29ggb+gqeg@eGroups.com> <h2ajjp+ku36@eGroups.com>
	 <000301c9f90c$2b593480$820b9d80$@com>
Message-ID: <7ef72f90906300713n3c90fd36s39db57fc742fc2c5@mail.gmail.com>

>md wrote:
>It's official, the LOTR's trilogy will be coming, most likely this fall, in
>a blu-ray trilogy collection. Sounds great, right? Wrong. The box will
>contain only the inferior theatrical cuts with an extended cut to follow
>after some undisclosed period of time. Because, you know, they haven't
>tripled dipped on DVD, we have to try to milk extra sales on blu-ray.

No.Limberger responds:
I haven't wanted to get a blu-ray player yet.  I've been waiting for the
right movies to be released on DVD.  I wouldn't waste my money on
the theatrical releases of LOTR.  I'd wait until the extended versions
are out.  Maybe then I'll get a blu-ray player.  I do want to get the
entire Harry Potter set of movies on blu-ray.

-- 
"Why don't you dance with me, I'm not no limberger!"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From md at exit-reality.com  Tue Jun 30 16:39:08 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Child of Midian)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:39:08 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Lord Of The Rings In Blu
In-Reply-To: <7ef72f90906300713n3c90fd36s39db57fc742fc2c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <h29ggb+gqeg@eGroups.com> <h2ajjp+ku36@eGroups.com>	 <000301c9f90c$2b593480$820b9d80$@com> <7ef72f90906300713n3c90fd36s39db57fc742fc2c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007b01c9f9a1$4c30d790$e49286b0$@com>



-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of No Limberger


No.Limberger responds:
I haven't wanted to get a blu-ray player yet.  I've been waiting for the
right movies to be released on DVD.  I wouldn't waste my money on
the theatrical releases of LOTR.  I'd wait until the extended versions
are out.  Maybe then I'll get a blu-ray player.  I do want to get the
entire Harry Potter set of movies on blu-ray.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

When I upgraded from a 27" 4:3 to a 42" 16:9 I thought how great it will be
to finally see my DVD collection on a big screen, then my heart sank when I
realized that a DVD on a big-screen is like going back to VHS quality. I
immediately decided that Sony's track record (betamax, minidisk, SACD) meant
that blu-ray would surely die and the more versatile, cheaper, HD-DVD would
quickly take over, so I bought an HD-DVD player (still have it, best
DVD-upscaler I ever used) and of course, blu-ray won. So I, feeling a strong
need to play Final Fantasy 13 (been playing them since the first game for
the NES came out) I broke down and got the PS3, which is, BTW, the best
blu-ray player out there. I don't know about now, but as of last year the
PS3 was the only player that could take 100% advantage of everything the
blu-ray disk can do, it was also the only player that could output all
available audio channels via HDMI. 

I just sold my HP HD-DVD's and bout all blu-rays (most for under $15 on
Amazon Marketplace -- but had to get the Philosophers Stone from Amazon.ca)
and they are spectacular. I thought about waiting until all 7 films where in
a nice box set, but wanted to watch them now with my oldest daughter before
HPB comes out in couple weeks (I'll be seeing it the second week, twice,
once with my wife and then we take the kids to avoid missing parts with the
constant bathroom breaks the 7 yr old will demand as she get's board).

md 




From no.limberger at gmail.com  Tue Jun 30 17:28:26 2009
From: no.limberger at gmail.com (No Limberger)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:28:26 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Lord Of The Rings In Blu
In-Reply-To: <007b01c9f9a1$4c30d790$e49286b0$@com>
References: <h29ggb+gqeg@eGroups.com> <h2ajjp+ku36@eGroups.com>
	 <000301c9f90c$2b593480$820b9d80$@com>
	 <7ef72f90906300713n3c90fd36s39db57fc742fc2c5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <007b01c9f9a1$4c30d790$e49286b0$@com>
Message-ID: <7ef72f90906301028o20ed5a1auf31d4c170c19b88f@mail.gmail.com>

>md wrote:
>When I upgraded from a 27" 4:3 to a 42" 16:9 I thought how great it will be
>to finally see my DVD collection on a big screen, then my heart sank when I
>realized that a DVD on a big-screen is like going back to VHS quality. I
>immediately decided that Sony's track record (betamax, minidisk, SACD)
meant
>that blu-ray would surely die and the more versatile, cheaper, HD-DVD would
>quickly take over, so I bought an HD-DVD player (still have it, best
>DVD-upscaler I ever used) and of course, blu-ray won.

No.Limberger responds:
I did something similar and got an HD-DVD player.  Then, not long
thereafter,
Sony had convinced WB to go blu-ray exclusive and HD-DVD died.  At that
point, my interest in switching to the more expensive blu-ray format
was not that important.  I only have a few HD-DVD's and still have the
HD-DVD
player, which I use primarily to watch standard DVD's.

Maybe in another year I'll decide to get a blu-ray player.

-- 
"Why don't you dance with me, I'm not no limberger!"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]