From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 1 18:43:13 2009 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 1 Mar 2009 18:43:13 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/1/2009, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1235932993.26.1558.m42@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 1, 2009 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2009 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catlady at wicca.net Sun Mar 1 20:53:42 2009 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:53:42 -0000 Subject: Space Time and Magic (from Main List) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tonks_op wrote in : << what about the travel that is done by Shamen and by real people like St. Padre Pio during WWII. It is called Bi-location. Does anyone know about this and theories about how it happens. >> I am not a scientist either. My theory on bi-location is that the person's body is really in one place, and what is seen and heard and felt in the other place is a very complete kind of illusion, and as for the 'person' in the other place moving stuff around etc, that is telekinesis. From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 2 18:55:37 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:55:37 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: zanooda: > > Guys, please tell me what the word "fresh" means in a sentence like that: "'Where are we?' he asked, peering around at a fresh mass of trees ...". It's right after Harry and Hermione Apparated to the Forest of Dean (ch.19, "The Silver Doe", p.364 Am.ed.). Does it mean something like "new", "another", or is it some characteristic of the trees, like "green" (in winter??) or whatever else. I would appreciate any advice :-). Carol responds: Maybe JKR was thinking, consciously or unconsciously, of Milton's "Lycidas," which ends with the famous line, "Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new." So, yes, "fresh" in the context you've given almost certainly means a new group of trees, or, rather, a group of trees in a "fresh" (new) forest that they haven't seen before. The Forest of Dean must be recognizably different from their unnamed previous location. Maybe Geoff can tell us its distinctive characteristics. Carol, who always sees familiar passages with fresh eyes after zanooda's posts From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 2 20:15:37 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:15:37 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff wrote: > As I said, it is one of the old "Forests" so named because they were royal hunting areas which are often more heathland and open grassland than woodland, especially land which can support deer. Carol responds: First, my apologies for not reading the whole thread before I suggested that we ask Geoff for information! You anticipated my request. Geoff: > The ones which spring most readily to mind for me are the New Forest, which lies just north-west of Southampton, famous because William II the second Norman king was killed by an arrow when hunting here; this is commemorated by the Rufus Stone Carol: Oh, yes: William II, aka William Rufus, so-called for his ruddy complexion, IIRC. I was thinking that he died from eating "a surfeit of eels" (food poisoning after eating his favorite dish) but I guess that was his younger brother, Henry I. Maybe Rufus Scrimgeour was named after William Rufus (the original Red King?). Geoff: > The Forest of Dean is a quite sparsely populated area, unusually for English areas lying on the West (Welsh) side of the River Severn between Gloucester on to the east and the Welsh toen of Monmouth on its west. Then there are Royal Forests on the edge of London such as Epping and Waltham in the North-east. But, if you investigate, you will find that tere was a list as long as your arm of places so designated. Carol responds: Wasn't poaching in the royal forests a crime punishable by death? I know that at one time or another, some of them were "disafforested," but whether that meant that others could hunt on those lands without the king's permission or the land could be enclosed and trees cut down, I'm not quites sure. ("Disafforest" only means "to return the land to nonforest uses," which doesn't help much.) To return to the Forest of Dean, I found this lovely shot online: http://www.cinderfordbrassband.co.uk/Royal%20Forest%20Of%20Dean.jpg I can picture the silver doe there, only in winter with snow on the ground and bare branches. It would have been darker, too, IIRC. Carol, who would love to get sidetracked on this topic but needs to finish an editing project! From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Mar 2 23:29:51 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:29:51 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: Carol: > Oh, yes: William II, aka William Rufus, so-called for his ruddy > complexion, IIRC. I was thinking that he died from eating "a surfeit > of eels" (food poisoning after eating his favorite dish) but I guess > that was his younger brother, Henry I. Geoff: Twas indeed. December 1135 while visiting his family in Normandy. Carol: > Maybe Rufus Scrimgeour was > named after William Rufus (the original Red King?). Geoff: I've had that thought myself in the past, though nothing to do with alchemical connections with which I don't agree - but that's for another post at some point. Geoff (earlier): > > The Forest of Dean is a quite sparsely populated area, unusually for > English areas lying on the West (Welsh) side of the River Severn > between Gloucester on to the east and the Welsh toen of Monmouth on > its west. Then there are Royal Forests on the edge of London > such as Epping and Waltham in the North-east. But, if you investigate, > you will find that tere was a list as long as your arm of places so > designated. Carol: > Wasn't poaching in the royal forests a crime punishable by death? Geoff: Doing anything in the royal forests was very risky if you weren't on t he staff" so to speak. Carol: > To return to the Forest of Dean, I found this lovely shot online: > > http://www.cinderfordbrassband.co.uk/Royal%20Forest%20Of%20Dean.jpg > > I can picture the silver doe there, only in winter with snow on the > ground and bare branches. It would have been darker, too, IIRC. Geoff: One of the best known spots is Symonds Yat which is high above the Wye Valley, on the north-west edge of the Forest of Dean and a few miles north of Tintern Abbey. I've only ever visited once when there was about 3" of snow on the ground and the views down the valley were stunningly beautiful. From tonks_op at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 05:25:30 2009 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:25:30 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" wrote: > Geoff: > I would read it as "new" or "different". For example: "He picked up a fresh file from the pile on the desk" or even"We had a fresh teacher for DADA today". > ;-) > Tonks: And if I heard "we had a fresh teacher" I might take it to mean that the teacher was sexually flirtatious, or worse, with someone. Tonks_op From kempermentor at yahoo.com Tue Mar 3 06:40:52 2009 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:40:52 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > I would read it as "new" or "different". For example: "He picked up a > fresh file from the pile on the desk" or even"We had a fresh teacher > for DADA today". > Tonks: > And if I heard "we had a fresh teacher" I might take it to mean that > the teacher was sexually flirtatious, or worse, with someone. Kemper now: Unless it was the US circa 1984/5, when having a fresh teacher could denote a stylish or cool one. :) Any b-boys or b-girls out there? wurd. Kemper From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Tue Mar 3 07:29:54 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:29:54 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" > wrote: > > > Geoff: > > I would read it as "new" or "different". For example: "He picked up a > fresh file from the pile on the desk" or even"We had a fresh teacher > for DADA today". > > ;-) > > > > Tonks: > > And if I heard "we had a fresh teacher" I might take it to mean that > the teacher was sexually flirtatious, or worse, with someone. > > Tonks_op Geoff: Yes, but it needs to be in context..... You've just got a naughty mind. :-))) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 6 16:23:32 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:23:32 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff wrote: > One of the best known spots is Symonds Yat which is high above the Wye Valley, on the north-west edge of the Forest of Dean and a few miles north of Tintern Abbey. > > I've only ever visited once when there was about 3" of snow on the ground and the views down the valley were stunningly beautiful. Carol responds: Aha! A chance for me to quote more English Romantic poetry for Steve. Here's a bit of a poem by William Wordsworth (1770-1850), actually called "Composed A Few Miles Above Tintern Abbey, On Revisiting The Banks Of The Wye During A Tour. July 13, 1798" but familiarly known as "Tintern Abbey." Five years have past; five summers, with the length Of five long winters! and again I hear These waters, rolling from their mountain-springs With a soft inland murmur. -- Once again Do I behold these steep and lofty cliffs, That on a wild secluded scene impress Thoughts of more deep seclusion; and connect The landscape with the quiet of the sky. These beauteous forms, Through a long absence, have not been to me As is a landscape to a blind man's eye: But oft, in lonely rooms, and 'mid the din Of towns and cities, I have owed to them In hours of weariness, sensations sweet, Felt in the blood, and felt along the heart; And passing even into my purer mind, With tranquil restoration: -- feelings too Of unremembered pleasure: such, perhaps, As have no slight or trivial influence On that best portion of a good man's life, His little, nameless, unremembered, acts Of kindness and of love. Nor less, I trust, To them I may have owed another gift, Of aspect more sublime; that blessed mood, In which the burthen of the mystery, In which the heavy and the weary weight Of all this unintelligible world, Is lightened: -- that serene and blessed mood, In which the affections gently lead us on, -- Until, the breath of this corporeal frame And even the motion of our human blood Almost suspended, we are laid asleep In body, and become a living soul: While with an eye made quiet by the power Of harmony, and the deep power of joy, We see into the life of things. If this Be but a vain belief, yet, oh! how oft -- In darkness and amid the many shapes Of joyless daylight; when the fretful stir Unprofitable, and the fever of the world, Have hung upon the beatings of my heart -- How oft, in spirit, have I turned to thee, O sylvan Wye! thou wanderer thro' the woods, How often has my spirit turned to thee! And so I dare to hope, Though changed, no doubt, from what I was when first I came among these hills; when like a roe I bounded o'er the mountains, by the sides Of the deep rivers, and the lonely streams, Wherever nature led: more like a man Flying from something that he dreads, than one Who sought the thing he loved. For nature then (The coarser pleasures of my boyish days, And their glad animal movements all gone by) To me was all in all. -- I cannot paint What then I was. The sounding cataract Haunted me like a passion: the tall rock, The mountain, and the deep and gloomy wood, Their colours and their forms, were then to me An appetite; a feeling and a love, That had no need of a remoter charm, By thought supplied, nor any interest Unborrowed from the eye. -- That time is past, And all its aching joys are now no more, And all its dizzy raptures. Not for this Faint I, nor mourn nor murmur, other gifts Have followed; for such loss, I would believe, Abundant recompence. For I have learned To look on nature, not as in the hour Of thoughtless youth; but hearing oftentimes The still, sad music of humanity, Nor harsh nor grating, though of ample power To chasten and subdue. And I have felt A presence that disturbs me with the joy Of elevated thoughts; a sense sublime Of something far more deeply interfused, Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns, And the round ocean and the living air, And the blue sky, and in the mind of man; A motion and a spirit, that impels All thinking things, all objects of all thought, And rolls through all things. Therefore am I still A lover of the meadows and the woods, And mountains; and of all that we behold >From this green earth; of all the mighty world Of eye, and ear, -- both what they half create, And what perceive; well pleased to recognise In nature and the language of the sense, The anchor of my purest thoughts, the nurse, The guide, the guardian of my heart, and soul Of all my moral being. Sorry to quote such a long extract, but the poem contains some great and memorable lines that I couldn't bring myself to snip. (Steve should like it because it's blank verse (unrhymed iambic pentameter)--no rhymes or end-stopped lines to distract him from the imagery and ideas. Wordsworth was influential in spreading the idea that people should live in harmony with nature, which is not the same thing, of course, as giving up houses and gardens and picturesque architecture like Tintern Abbey altogether. Here's a link to the whole poem if anyone wants to read it: http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Poetry/WordsworthTinternAbbey.htm The last few lines are addressed to his younger sister, Dorothy, who (according to his theory of human development) is at an earlier stage in her relationship with nature than he is and still not wholly separated from it. And here's a link to the Tintern Abbey website. (The webcam doesn't seem to be working, but there are lots of other photos. The abbey was already a ruin in Wordsworth's time thanks to Henry VIII's dissolution of the abbeys in 1536. The fact that it was a ruin made it "picturesque" and attractive to people like Jane Austen's fictional Marianne Dashwood in "Sense and Sensibility." Carol, having trouble getting the old English teacher impulse out of her blood From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Mar 6 22:02:32 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:02:32 -0000 Subject: "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > Geoff wrote: > > One of the best known spots is Symonds Yat which is high above the Wye Valley, on the north-west edge of the Forest of Dean and a few miles north of Tintern Abbey. > > > > I've only ever visited once when there was about 3" of snow on the ground and the views down the valley were stunningly beautiful. > > Carol: > > Aha! A chance for me to quote more English Romantic poetry for Steve. > > Here's a bit of a poem by William Wordsworth (1770-1850), actually called "Composed A Few Miles Above Tintern Abbey, On Revisiting The Banks Of The Wye During A Tour. July 13, 1798" but familiarly known as "Tintern Abbey." > Sorry to quote such a long extract, but the poem contains some great and memorable lines that I couldn't bring myself to snip. (Steve should like it because it's blank verse (unrhymed iambic pentameter)--no rhymes or end-stopped lines to distract him from the imagery and ideas. > > Wordsworth was influential in spreading the idea that people should live in harmony with nature, which is not the same thing, of course, as giving up houses and gardens and picturesque architecture like Tintern Abbey altogether. > And here's a link to the Tintern Abbey website. Geoff: Er, where? There are several websites referring to the Abbey. If you Google "Tintern Abbey" you can look at several. I have visited the Abbey area several times - unlike Symonds Yat. We have walked along the river and into the woods and also followed part of the alignment of the old railway. The railway station is still in situ and used as a small information site about the line. Just as an aside, the Abbey is in a stunning location. This is true of so many old abbeys up and down the country. One of my personal favourites is Rievaulx in Yorkshire. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Mar 7 22:34:45 2009 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:34:45 -0000 Subject: Rufus, was "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol wrote in : << Maybe Rufus Scrimgeour was named after William Rufus >> Rowling seems to think that first names -u-us sound good with last name Scrimgeour, because she made Brutus Scrimgeour the author of The Beater's Bible. From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 8 17:40:27 2009 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 8 Mar 2009 17:40:27 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/8/2009, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1236534027.615.2416.m1@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 8, 2009 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2009 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 15:28:34 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:28:34 -0000 Subject: Rufus, was "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol wrote in : > > << Maybe Rufus Scrimgeour was named after William Rufus >> > > Rowling seems to think that first names -u-us sound good with last name Scrimgeour, because she made Brutus Scrimgeour the author of The Beater's Bible. > Carol responds: Maybe they're another old Pure-Blood family that uses Latin first names, at least for the sons. Carol, who thinks that Rufus sounds like a dog's name From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 15:33:47 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:33:47 -0000 Subject: Rufus, was "Fresh" Forest of Dean. P.S. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry. I forgot to credit the person I was responding to in the previous post regarding Rufus Scrimgeour's first name. It was Catlady, as you can probably tell from her unique posting style. Carol, with apologies for the missing attribution and the wasted post From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Mar 9 21:01:25 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:01:25 -0000 Subject: Rufus, was "Fresh" Forest of Dean. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: > > > Carol wrote in : > > > > << Maybe Rufus Scrimgeour was named after William Rufus >> > > > > Rowling seems to think that first names -u-us sound good with last name Scrimgeour, because she made Brutus Scrimgeour the author of The Beater's Bible. > > > Carol responds: > > Maybe they're another old Pure-Blood family that uses Latin first names, at least for the sons. > > Carol, who thinks that Rufus sounds like a dog's name Geoff: Well, interestingly enough, a very common name in the UK for a dog is Merlin. There are at least two I meet who regularly take their owners for walks on Porlock Marsh. My dog's name is Dan - but he dates back to well before any of my association with Harry or his media representatives. :-) From tonks_op at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 04:58:00 2009 From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:58:00 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Conventions Message-ID: I know about Azkatraz and Leaky Con. Any others? What is happening in the UK? I thought there was one and then it was canceled or what?? Anyone know?? What about you folks up it Canada? Are you doing one this year?? Tonks_op From ladyofwesttower at yahoo.com Thu Mar 12 15:32:30 2009 From: ladyofwesttower at yahoo.com (Kassandra Ward) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:32:30 -0000 Subject: A Harry Potter RPG Message-ID: Hi, I was looking at your group and saw that it was for adults as well as things Off Topic for your main group. I am looking for some RPG members for a Next Generation Harry Potter RPG so I was hoping you wouldn't mind letting me post this to see if anyone here is interested. Right now is a great time to join us as we just jumped a few months ahead and people are socializing in Hogsmeade and the 1st and 2nd years are mingling in the castle. It takes place using the children of our beloved Harry Potter characters: Albus Potter, Rose Weasley, and all the others. There is drama and new plots are always welcome. There are cannons still available and we are always accepting Madeups. If you are interested, please go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HogwartsTheNextGeneration/ ***NOTE*** For some reason, Yahoo screwed up and put us in Adults even though the site originated in the Role Playing section. I can't get it to change back, but this is a Role Playing group and while we do allow NC-17 posts (this is not forced, these are voluntary only with warnings if you do not wish to read such posts), we're not a porn group. I hope to see you there! Sincerely, Lady of West Tower From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Mar 14 22:36:36 2009 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:36:36 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience Message-ID: There are 7 HP books and 3 companian books written by JKR; there are short pieces done for charity; there is the JKR web site. We will have 8 Horcruxes, erm, I mean movies. Many books have been published about HP. There are discusion boards, news boards, fan-fic sites, RPGs and video games. There are conventions, bookstore events, library events and Bible studies. Fans have written papers, writen fiction, created art, organized events, and managed web sites. Is there more? With all this HP stuff out there, what is your Harry Potter experience? Is your base canon or movies? What have you participated in or looked at? What defines the HP experience for you? Do your friends and family have the same experience? Do they tolerate your interest, or do you hide it? And how are you managing now that the books are done? Potioncat From kempermentor at yahoo.com Sat Mar 14 23:20:24 2009 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:20:24 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Potioncat: > There are 7 HP books and 3 companian books written by JKR; there are short pieces done for charity; there is the JKR web site. ... Fans have written papers, writen fiction, created art, organized events, and managed web sites. Is there more? Kemper now: There are podcasts. > With all this HP stuff out there, what is your Harry Potter experience? ...What have you participated in or looked at? What defines the HP experience for you? Do your friends and family have the same experience? Do they tolerate your interest, or do you hide it? And how are you managing now that the books are done? Kemper now: I participate/lurk on Main and Movie. When I discuss HP in RL it is only canon. I treat the movies as visual fanfic and so don't refer to it. I have used the books therapeutically with some youth fans whom I've come across in work. But that was some time ago. My family, mom, sibs, wife, and inlaws have all read the books. They are passive, quiet fans. Some of my friends have read the series, they too are free from fandom. I do not hide my nerd, my geek. I make it look risickulously bad ass. And that endears them and strangers to me. The books, as fun as they are, are only books. Yet they are books that I'm grateful for, as they were the gateway drug into other fandoms. Kemper From n2fgc at arrl.net Sun Mar 15 04:51:10 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:51:10 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D88CFFE4036495C8A8562AECAD8F283@FRODO> [Potioncat]: | There are 7 HP books and 3 companian books written by JKR; | there are short pieces done for charity; there is the JKR web | site. We will have 8 Horcruxes, erm, I mean movies. Many | books have been published about HP. There are discusion | boards, news boards, fan-fic sites, RPGs and video games. | There are conventions, bookstore events, library events and | Bible studies. Fans have written papers, writen fiction, | created art, organized events, and managed web sites. Is there more? [Lee]: Hmm--don't forget that theme park that's supposed to be opening up sometime...sounds like it will be fun! And maybe I'll get there. [Potioncat]: | With all this HP stuff out there, what is your Harry Potter | experience? Is your base canon or movies? What have you | participated in or looked at? What defines the HP experience | for you? Do your friends and family have the same experience? | Do they tolerate your interest, or do you hide it? And how | are you managing now that the books are done? [Lee]: My base is definitely the books! They were here first; the movies, to me, are but pale shadows, some more pale than others. I suppose if I had started with the movies first, I might feel differently...I don't know. But it's the books! I've been to a couple of bookstore opening but no conventions. Too far away, especially now that Art doesn't drive more than about town. Fortunately, Art is a fan...probably not as crazy as I am in that I did dress in a robe and such for the OOTP movie, but he doesn't discourage me. I suppose that out of all of us I'm the most HP fan-type. Art loves the audiobooks, sometimes enjoys the movies, and doesn't discourage my buying things like wands and pins, etc. He's almost as good at quoting the books as I am, even if he might not think so. As far as the rest of my family, well, some may think I'm nutters, but that's okay. And now that the books are over, I've settled back in the Pendragon books by D.J. MacHale and back to Diane Duane's "Young Wizard" books. I have no problem moving from fandom to fandom; it keeps things interesting. But I would like to see, perhaps a couple years after the last movie, a really *Good* miniseries for each book that excludes nothing from the books and doesn't ad what I call "silliness" like the shrunken head on the Knight bus in the POA movie and the badly done first task in the GOF movie. Cheers, Lee :-) From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 15 17:40:17 2009 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 15 Mar 2009 17:40:17 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/15/2009, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1237138817.537.54263.m1@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 15, 2009 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2009 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Mar 17 05:46:41 2009 From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 05:46:41 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? Message-ID: Here are mine: Tied for first place J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling 2 - C. S. Lewis 3 - Robert Heinlein 4 - Marian Zimmer Bradly 5 - Mercedes Lacky 6 - Robin McKinley 7 - Madeleine L'Engle 8 - Susan Cooper and here are some others in no particular order, Poul Anderson, Isaac Asmiov, T.H. White, Sheri Tepper, Octavia Butler, Andre Norton, Charles de Lint, Orson Scott Card, Ursula LeGuin, E.E. Smith, Lord Dunsany, Yours? From n2fgc at arrl.net Tue Mar 17 15:53:50 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:53:50 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <542E74A2904143DDA1AEE337A96FDBAF@FRODO> Top Picks: C. S. Lewis J. R. R. Tolkien J. K. Rowling Diane Duane Ursula K. LeGuin No particular order: Anne McCaffrey Madeleine L'Engle D. J. MacHale Lloyd Alexander Andre Norton (Time Traders) Isaac Asimov I only really like one Heinlein book - "The Door Into Summer." What can I tell ya...I'm tough to please. I want no over-done sex, gratuitous violence or bad language. Cheers, and a Happy St. Patty's Day. Lee :-) Do not walk behind me, | Lee Storm I may not care to lead; | N2FGC Do not walk before me, | n2fgc at arrl.net (or) I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net Walk beside me, and be my friend. From d2dmiles at yahoo.de Tue Mar 17 21:09:36 2009 From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:09:36 +0100 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? References: <542E74A2904143DDA1AEE337A96FDBAF@FRODO> Message-ID: <1DE8C95F80A2402DB78BFF7028EEF1C7@miles> I don't like to rank them, not least because a ranking of that kind always changes. So instead, some names with short comments: J.R.R. Tolkien - the standard of epic fantasy literature. J.K. Rowling - the most entertaining books I read in the past years. Ray Bradbury - if you ever forget or never knew how boys on the threshold of puberty think and feel, read him. Stanislaw Lem - the most intelligent Science Fiction I know, with a fine sense of humour. Howard P. Lovecraft - love him or hate him. He is not really a good author, but his stories are absorbing. Stephen King - does "horror" count? For me, King is one of the best contemporary writers of our time (and would be seen as one, if he wouldn't write in such dirty genres). His stories can be so frightening, because he can really make his characters alive. Diane Duane - her Young Wizard series is well-written, and for me her "magic" works better than Rowling's. Frank Herbert - his Dune novels might be a bit lengthy and pseudo-philosophical, but even the first Dune novel alone secures Herbert's place on Fantasy's olympus. Miles From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 17 22:22:53 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:22:53 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yahoomort appears to have snacked on my post, but I am still hopeful that it will turn out, but I forgot to add one of my all time favorite fantasy authors Guy Gavriel Kay. I am still to read the book of his that I did not like and I soooo appreciate that he appears to prefer quality of the books over quantity. Alla From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Tue Mar 17 23:19:40 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:19:40 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: > > Here are mine: > > Tied for first place J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling > 2 - C. S. Lewis > 3 - Robert Heinlein > 4 - Marian Zimmer Bradly > 5 - Mercedes Lacky > 6 - Robin McKinley > 7 - Madeleine L'Engle > 8 - Susan Cooper > > and here are some others in no particular order, Poul Anderson, > Isaac Asmiov, T.H. White, Sheri Tepper, Octavia Butler, Andre Norton, Charles de Lint, Orson Scott Card, Ursula LeGuin, E.E. Smith, > Lord Dunsany, > > Yours? Geoff: I think like another contributor, I will not put them in rank order but, in some cases, will give a specific book which has been of particular enjoyment for me. J R R Tolkien - LOTR has been a favourite read for over 50 years. Silmarillion harder work. J K Rowling - say no more :-)) C S Lewis - The Narnia books (except The Horse and His Boy) and the first of the Perelandra books (Out of the Silent Planet) Alan Garner - Weirdstone of Brisingamen, Moon of Gomrath John Wyndham - The Kraken wakes Arthur C Clarke - The city and the stars James Blish - Cities in flight There are others but those are the ones which spring immediately to mind. From jkoney65 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 17 23:49:27 2009 From: jkoney65 at yahoo.com (jkoney65) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:49:27 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: > > Here are mine: > > Tied for first place J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling > 2 - C. S. Lewis > 3 - Robert Heinlein > 4 - Marian Zimmer Bradly > 5 - Mercedes Lacky > 6 - Robin McKinley > 7 - Madeleine L'Engle > 8 - Susan Cooper > > and here are some others in no particular order, Poul Anderson, > Isaac Asmiov, T.H. White, Sheri Tepper, Octavia Butler, Andre Norton, Charles de Lint, Orson Scott Card, Ursula LeGuin, E.E. Smith, > Lord Dunsany, > > Yours? > jkoney: I couldn't possibly rank them since they change so frequently. J.R.R. Tolkien Eddings: One of the most detailed fantasy worlds after Tolkien Eric Flint: The 1632 world and also the Bellisarius series David Webber David Drake John Ringo If Mercedes Lackey could end a story in more than two pages I would like her alot more. From jkoney65 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 00:01:26 2009 From: jkoney65 at yahoo.com (jkoney65) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:01:26 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > There are 7 HP books and 3 companian books written by JKR; there are short pieces done for charity; there is the JKR web site. We will have 8 Horcruxes, erm, I mean movies. Many books have been published about HP. There are discusion boards, news boards, fan-fic sites, RPGs and video games. There are conventions, bookstore events, library events and Bible studies. Fans have written papers, writen fiction, created art, organized events, and managed web sites. Is there more? > > With all this HP stuff out there, what is your Harry Potter experience? Is your base canon or movies? What have you participated in or looked at? What defines the HP experience for you? Do your friends and family have the same experience? Do they tolerate your interest, or do you hide it? And how are you managing now that the books are done? > > Potioncat > jkoney I joined in late (after OotP) but immediately got hooked on the books. While searching for more (I didn't have the patience to wait for HBP) I found fanfiction. The variety of fan fiction kept me involved and led me to joining various groups and allowed further discussion. Although it wasn't until I found this group(s) that I actually found people who actually had reasons and real arguments. Discussing with adults is much more enjoyable than arguing with a young teen. I've never really cared for the movies. Their interpretations were never as good as the ones I got when I read the book. I can barely watch them anymore and the farther we go in the series the less I like the movies. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 01:29:05 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:29:05 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Geoff: > I think like another contributor, I will not put them in rank order > but, in some cases, will give a specific book which has been of > particular enjoyment for me. > > J R R Tolkien - LOTR has been a favourite read for over 50 years. > Silmarillion harder work. > J K Rowling - say no more :-)) > C S Lewis - The Narnia books (except The Horse and His Boy) > and the first of the Perelandra books (Out of the Silent Planet) > Alan Garner - Weirdstone of Brisingamen, Moon of Gomrath > John Wyndham - The Kraken wakes > Arthur C Clarke - The city and the stars > James Blish - Cities in flight > > There are others but those are the ones which spring immediately > to mind. > Alla: So it appears that Yahoo indeed had a yummy dinner with my post. Oh well, let me try to list the books/or authors that I already did. Since the question asked for favorites and not necessarily for most recognised and skilled ones, I would put as one of my favorites the book by Alfred Bester "The demolished man". I think this author's play with words is amazing if nothing else attracts you in his works, but this one had been one of my favorites for years. I love many already named, but I am definitely limiting myself to Mercedes Lackey's earlier books, as I vented here before I think her latest works declined in quality significantly. "Herald Mage"? LOVE. Her early retelling of Firebird - absolutely love. I actually love vast majority of earlier Valdemar books of hers. I do love Tolkien, I do, although as I am sure I also mentioned I love his book as a whole package, but do not find his characters except for Boromir to be particularly interesting or attractive to me. But book is musical. Miles mentioned Lem, funnily I used to read him, Bradbery, Heinlaine much more when I was younger and I read them all in russian translation. I suppose that means that in my younger years science fiction attracted me much more than fantasy, then when I came here I read more of fantasy and now, I think I am going back to real fiction, heh, not that I am abandoning this genre. I do not care for Lewis at all, although I acknowledge his talent. I usually prefer my books less, well, direct. Jim Butcher will be on the very top definitely with Dresden files. I surely would not put his skill level with Tolkien or Lewis LOL, but I think he writes smart books, with great characters and it feels as if every book only adds layers of depth to his world and characters. Alla From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 01:37:34 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:37:34 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jkoney65" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > > > There are 7 HP books and 3 companian books written by JKR; there are short pieces done for charity; there is the JKR web site. We will have 8 Horcruxes, erm, I mean movies. Many books have been published about HP. There are discusion boards, news boards, fan-fic sites, RPGs and video games. There are conventions, bookstore events, library events and Bible studies. Fans have written papers, writen fiction, created art, organized events, and managed web sites. Is there more? > > > > With all this HP stuff out there, what is your Harry Potter experience? Is your base canon or movies? What have you participated in or looked at? What defines the HP experience for you? Do your friends and family have the same experience? Do they tolerate your interest, or do you hide it? And how are you managing now that the books are done? > > > > Potioncat Alla: I started reading books right before GoF came out. LOVED it, also looked for fanfiction while waiting for OOP, joined this group somewhere in 2002, am here ever since :-) Family and people around me does not quite get it, or should I say not gets it at all. Oh they are avid readers, they just do not get the level of you know erm... passion devoted to one series, in short they do not get what fandom is. I do have couple friends at works who are fans, but still they do not discuss on Internet, heh. I like movies as illustrations to the books, but I certainly prefer books. Managing just fine when books are done LOL, am very happy that we went through waiting periods, discussions, waitings, guessings, it was FUN. I am still here, so you can guess I will happily talk about Harry, but there are so so many books in the world that I still have not read, I cannot be fixated on one series forever, I found several new ones to enjoy as much as I enjoyed Harry. From swartell at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 02:57:52 2009 From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <239315.47211.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Favorites - I'm glad someone started listing without ordering; I'm going to follow suit. In no particular order: J.K. Rowling Lois McMaster Bujold - she writes both sf and fantasy. I think Paladin of Souls is my favorite of hers, though it changes, and I love everything she's written. The Vorkosigan series is wonderful, character-driven SF/space opera. Janet Kagan - she didn't write many books, but they were very imaginative, with vivid characters I wanted to meet in the real world. Highly, highly recommended Connie Willis - especially To Say Nothing of the Dog Arthur C. Clarke - for many, many years he was my very favorite author Roger Zelazny Christopher Stasheff (guilty pleasure) Sharon Lee and Steve Miller (though I find them somewhat uneven) I've enjoyed the first couple of Michael Scott's series "The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel" but I can't name him a favorite on the basis of two books. He may join the group above by the end of the 6 planned books, though. There are other authors who have some books I like, and some I don't care for as much - McCaffrey is in that category and so is Lackey. I used to like Heinlein and Asimov, but their books haven't aged well for me. Alan Dean Foster has a few that I really like. I've not quite decided about Michelle Sagara West - I don't exactly love the "Cast in..." series, but I keep reading it and looking forward to the next book. Sue in balmy Columbus OH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 03:00:46 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:00:46 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: <239315.47211.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sue Wartell wrote: > Lois McMaster Bujold - she writes both sf and fantasy. I think Paladin of Souls is my favorite of hers, though it changes, and I love everything she's written. The Vorkosigan series is wonderful, character-driven SF/space opera. Alla: Oh God, how could I forget these series? Excellent, and highly recommended, just one of the few great recs I received on this list :) I love Miles and his family and some of his friends even :) From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 17 20:54:37 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:54:37 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: > > Here are mine: > > Tied for first place J.R.R. Tolkien and J.K. Rowling > 2 - C. S. Lewis > 3 - Robert Heinlein > 4 - Marian Zimmer Bradly > 5 - Mercedes Lacky > 6 - Robin McKinley > 7 - Madeleine L'Engle > 8 - Susan Cooper > > and here are some others in no particular order, Poul Anderson, > Isaac Asmiov, T.H. White, Sheri Tepper, Octavia Butler, Andre Norton, Charles de Lint, Orson Scott Card, Ursula LeGuin, E.E. Smith, > Lord Dunsany, > > Yours? > Alla: Hm, I think the only one I would cross out from your top picks list is Mercedes Lackey or at least limit myself to her earlier books - goodness love Herald Mage trilogy, I vented more than once here as to how much in my opinion her books went down in quality since she started publishing several books a year in great details. Everybody else you listed I love, I mean no wait, I have not read McKinley. Whom would I put on top? Very tough question, but since the question says your favorites, not the ones I consider most skilled, I would do something like that: 1. Alfred Bester (The demolished man is one of my favorite books of all time, period) 2. Jim Butcher (Hey you asked for favorites, I am not claiming that his skills are near on the level of Tolkien or Susan Cooper, but I think he writes intelligent books, cool stories and created great characters) 3. J.K. Rowling. (Yes, I do believe that books will stand the test of time). 4. Tolkien (I love the books, but just cannot love the characters on the same level as I love the others, but I certainly give him the first place of the most skilled one, wait no I think Bester is close) 5. OMG I used to love Heinlein when I was younger, have not read anything of his recently. 6. Susan Cooper I love the Dark is rising. 7. There are several russian fantasts I adore, but see no point in listing them, I am not even sure if they are translated. From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Wed Mar 18 23:35:37 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:35:37 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" wrote: Alla: > I started reading books right before GoF came out. LOVED it, also looked for fanfiction while waiting for OOP, joined this group somewhere in 2002, am here ever since :-) > Family and people around me does not quite get it, or should I say not gets it at all. Oh they are avid readers, they just do not get the level of you know erm... passion devoted to one series, in short they do not get what fandom is. > I do have couple friends at works who are fans, but still they do not discuss on Internet, heh. > I like movies as illustrations to the books, but I certainly prefer books. > Managing just fine when books are done LOL, am very happy that we went through waiting periods, discussions, waitings, guessings, it was FUN. > I am still here, so you can guess I will happily talk about Harry, but there are so so many books in the world that I still have not read, I cannot be fixated on one series forever, I found several new ones to enjoy as much as I enjoyed Harry. Geoff: Unlike some people, I came to Harry via the films. Although I have been a fan of young people's fiction all my life - I first discovered Narnia when I was 23(!) - Harry didn't register on my radar in the early days. The first time I noticed the phenomenon was when "Philosopher's Stone' hit the cinemas in 2001, largely because a number of folk in my church were campaigning against it. Rather stupidly, I took the view that Harry Potter was "a Bad Thing" without really looking at it myself. It was when "Chamber of Secrets" was released that things changed. We were in Cardiff and the friend with whom we stayed often liked to see a film when the evening was quiet TV-wise. On this occasion, he asked if we wanted to go to the cinema in Barry which was showing CoS. My wife looked at me to see and I said something like "Well OK". We went and I was very impressed; later that week Sky Box Office was showing PS so I saw that too. Returning home, I rapidly got the books plus "Prisoner of Azkaban" and "Goblet of Fire" and I was into the Wizarding World with a vengeance. As an evangelical Christian, I personally see nothing which I find disquieting. I believe there is a lot of Christian subtext there and a lot of Christian writers have seen this also, although I find I cannot agree with John Granger's mixing of alchemical ideas with the Gospel. I have enjoyed both books and films. I feel that the films do suffer a little because they have had to have some plot lines cut because of length and I feel that to appreciate the films, the books are mandatory reading. I would disagree with one recent poster who felt that the films got worse. With hindsight, i would say that the first two films are a trifle Disney-esque in places but OOTP for me was pretty much the best so far. Quite how the filmmakers will handle the last two books will be intriguing. Of all the books, I possibly have the most mixed feelings over "Deathly Hallows" After all, who doesn't? :-) I found the middle of the book, with the "camping" sections, dragged. I still have the same feeling about the Frodo/Sam sections of "The Two Towers" despite it being a long time favourite book but I have noted on several occasions that the last few chaptersof DH (excluding the epilogue) are, for me, JKR's finest piece of story telling. But it all boils down to "each to his own" when it comes to our feelings about the Wizarding World and no matter how much some contributors to this group like to range their big guns to try to persuade us otherwise, we all hold - and will continue to hold - our own interpretation of the events. From sherriola at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 00:39:07 2009 From: sherriola at gmail.com (Sherry Gomes) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:07 -0700 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: <239315.47211.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <239315.47211.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd have to say my favorite fantasy author, after Tolkien and JKR would be guy Gavriel Kay. love to pieces all of his books, but particularly Tigana. In fact, that book is in my top ten favorite books of all time. I also like George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. marvelous complex characters and plot, though sometimes almost too dark. But the characters keep me coming back for more! I love fantasy, but somehow, I can't seem to think of more authors that I like, even though I know there are many! Sherry From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Mar 19 01:29:39 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:29:39 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: References: <239315.47211.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0E9D7AA5A1774DFC9986F4A0C7FB414B@FRODO> [Sherry]: | I love fantasy, but somehow, I can't seem to think of more | authors that I | like, even though I know there are many! [Lee]: I can't find what I posted on this subject, but did I include Lloyd Alexander? If not, I should have...a really nice series in the Prydane Chronicles. Cheers, Lee :-) From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 15:45:26 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:45:26 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Going back to the original question stated in the subject line, What are your favorite science fiction/fantasy authors, I'd have to say none except LOTR (which I reread annually from the time I was fifteen till I was about thirty-five and still return to occasionally) and, of course, the harry Potter books. I've tried other scifi or fantasy authors and just can't get caught up in their worlds or their writing, possibly because I don't care to think about the future and am intrigued by the real past (historical and prehistoric). For me the great mystery of all time is how and when we became human (how could something like homo habilis evolve into *us*?) So let me turn the tables a bit and ask the rest of you: Why read scifi or fantasy or both? What's the attraction of those genres, and do you prefer one over the other? Carol, who is back on a nonfiction kick and trying (futilely) to read all the books she owns and figure out which ones to sell for a bit of extra cash From n2fgc at arrl.net Thu Mar 19 17:17:58 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:17:58 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95DB6C97ABA54CA8A74ECABBD6228173@FRODO> [Carol]: | I've tried other scifi or fantasy authors and | just can't get caught up in their worlds or their writing, | possibly because I don't care to think about the future and | am intrigued by the real past (historical and prehistoric). | For me the great mystery of all time is how and when we | became human (how could something like homo habilis evolve into *us*?) [Lee]: But not all SciFi and Fantasy deals with the future. Look at things like Diane Duane's Young Wizard series; it's in the present or nearly present time with everyday-like people who do, as part of their covert work, interact with beings from other worlds. Personally, I never got turned on by history; perhaps it was because I had dull teachers, I don't know. But, to me, the past is the past and I let those who are historian-types try to unravel it. | [Carol]: | So let me turn the tables a bit and ask the rest of you: Why | read scifi or fantasy or both? What's the attraction of those | genres, and do you prefer one over the other? [Lee]: That depends. SciFi doesn't have to be about the future; I enjoy the type that takes me to other worlds, but I don't like the really dark kind. I appreciate hope and seek books with characters that bring kindness and hope in some way to the story. In Fantasy, we can look at a world that is and yet is not our own. In the HP books, we have our known world, but there's a whole lot more happening in it than the average Muggle realizes. Same with the Young Wizard books. In the Lloyd Alexander and LOTR books, the world we see may or may not be part of ours, hidden by magic from the rest of the world, etc. In the Narnia books, we have our world interfacing with another completely different one, with doorways between the two. I read to escape the bad news of the present, so to speak. I want my books to transport me to places that are different and may be better, and they may be worse, but there's some character to make things better. I want my books to stimulate my imagination, entertain me, and show me different ways of thinking, trying to see us humans through the eyes of someone from another world, or a dragon, or whatever. That's my two knuts' worth. Some may think I'm weird, but I know I am. Cheers, Lee :-) From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 21:29:43 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:29:43 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol]: | So let me turn the tables a bit and ask the rest of you: Why | read sci-fi or fantasy or both? What's the attraction of those | genres, and do you prefer one over the other? Alla: Interesting question and the answer will be long. I am the person who will read practically any genre as long as it engages me. The only criteria is that I have to find it interesting, really; therefore I never read any particular genre for any particular purpose besides enjoying the book. Ah, I guess I would not read pure horror story. Note I do not mean *violent story*, I mean staff like Steven King's, that I would not read period, no matter how well it is written, simply because I know myself to be very very easily scared. I do not watch horror movies either. Everything else I will read as long as I like it. But it is certainly an interesting question to reflect on. I had always read a lot of sci fi even back home, but I should say I have not read any fantasy before I came here. I think there were simply not many books available, for some reason traditionally Russian writers did not do a whole lot of fantasy (they certainly do now), and not too many translations were available either (it definitely changed). But I have certainly read a lot of sci fi in translations and done by Russian writers. Lem. Heinlein, Bradbery, Asimov, you name them I had read them. I had read sci fi because I am certainly interested in the scenarios of how the future society can develop, but there was another very significant reason. Sometimes sci fi writers could get past censorship just a bit more than the writer of regular fiction would be able to, during soviet times. I mean, it was also not a guarantee, but see it is one thing to write a book about the nowadays soviet society which oppresses your freedoms in different ways, but it is a different thing to write a book about imaginary society in the future that may looks awfully like soviet society, but you can never be sure what writer really meant. So that was a reason that played out too, sometimes sci fi writers did better with using Aesop language and writing a better story, more multilayered in many ways. Because too much of the fiction available was you know, praising the regime in many different varieties, of course I was growing up in the perestroika times so all the stories were slowly made available to the public eventually, but still those were interesting times. I had started reading fantasy for the most part when I came here. I mean, no I read part of LOTR in Russian translation back home, could not finish and thought it was too boring lol. When I read it in the original, I realized it was just a very bad translation. I guess escapism definitely explains part of the reason of why I got interested in fantasy. My first years of adjusting to new life here had been extremely stressful for many reasons and what can I say, I was looking for a lighter reading than I would usually go to. The thing is, while I got into it, I had seen a lot of wonderfully complex books with great characters and while yeah, they usually have a resolution contrary to the books I used to read and love, and often a positive one, the journey to get there is often wonderful. Now I am also a student of history, I majored in history in college and loved it all my life and read a lot of historical sources, but I had always been interested in the alternate history, specifically what would happen, how the history of any given country will go if one or several key events will go differently. There is a famous saying that the History does not like the word IF. Well, I always had been interested in that and fantasy is a good genre to see it. For example Naomi Novick in her Temeraire books explores what would have happened in the Napoleonic wars if from very old times everything in our world would have been the same except the dragons being the part of armies of many countries for centuries. I found those series to be fascinating. Does it answer your question? From d2dmiles at yahoo.de Thu Mar 19 21:34:12 2009 From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:34:12 +0100 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? References: Message-ID: <9BDCA8D335D14486A05633C52F49107B@miles> Carol wrote: > Going back to the original question stated in the subject line, What > are your favorite science fiction/fantasy authors, I'd have to say > none except LOTR (which I reread annually from the time I was fifteen > till I was about thirty-five and still return to occasionally) and, > of course, the harry Potter books. I've tried other scifi or fantasy > authors and just can't get caught up in their worlds or their > writing, possibly because I don't care to think about the future and > am intrigued by the real past (historical and prehistoric). For me > the great mystery of all time is how and when we became human (how > could something like homo habilis evolve into *us*?) Miles But that's what good fantasy and science fiction deals with - IMO. But it leads to an interesting question - what is "good" fantasy and science fiction? While personal taste can't be defined properly, for me there are some characteristics of good literature in general. First of all, a good book must be written in good language. I recognise good German easily, good English is a bit more difficult. But in both languages that I can read I can't endure bad metaphors, overblown style, sloppy grammar, or - horribile dictu - bad spelling in a book. Good language needs rhythm, a rich vocabulary, and maybe some small surprises. The second important issue of good literature are the characters. In "normal" literature those characters are human - no surprise so far. A good author creates his characters in a way the readers can "feel" them. We are reminded of people we know in real life, maybe we see parts of ourselves in them. We feel with them, sometimes care for them (Harry ;) ), and in good books we can learn something about human beings from books. Therefore I do not like "wrong" characters. Flawless heroes, purely bad villains, stereotypes in general. While good or bad language is not a question of the genre of a book, in science fiction and fantasy books many characters are not human at all. But that doesn't mean that it's not possible to have "living" characters in that kind of books. Many interesting "humans" in fantasy are Elves, Hobbits, Merepeople, or Vulcans, Klingons and Martians in science fiction. To put them outside our world sometimes makes it possible to show their human characteristics more clearly. (I would be interested how racists who read Harry Potter think about pureblood supremancy in Potterworld?) What I need in a good book, and this is the third and last issue, is a believable "world". I don't need a world full of myths and languages like in Tolkien, I like Rowling's potterverse good enough, though I sometimes shake my head about all it's flaws. Even those books that use our time and world, without fantasy elements ("normal" fiction) set a fictional picture of our world. This picture can be believable - or not. "Bad" literature does not care for reality or internal logic - and to have a non-authentic version of 21st century London or an illogical 33rd century Vulcan is both frustrating for a reader who sometimes thinks about what s/he's reading. Miles From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 20 00:52:11 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:52:11 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alla: > > Interesting question and the answer will be long. > I guess escapism definitely explains part of the reason of why I got interested in fantasy. There is a famous saying that the History does not like the word IF. Well, I always had been interested in that and fantasy is a good genre to see it. > Does it answer your question? Yes. Thank you. I snipped most of your response because these two are the reasons that most appeal to me--escapism and "what if?" Futuristic societies, OTOH, don't interest me at all. We're too dependent on technology already. Anyone else want to explore the topic? Carol, wishing everyone a happy first day of Spring tomorrow (it's like May in Tucson already) From kempermentor at yahoo.com Fri Mar 20 03:43:58 2009 From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:43:58 -0000 Subject: Why? SciFi or Fantastical? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carol: > So let me turn the tables a bit and ask the rest of you: Why read scifi or fantasy or both? What's the attraction of those genres, and do you prefer one over the other? Kemper now: Why scifi/fantasy? 'Real' fiction is too real. I require a bit more escape. As to which I favor more... hmm... I prefer to read Fantastical fiction (fantasy/horror), but I prefer to watch Sci/Fi. There are exceptions. I love reading me some vampires, witches, demons, zombies, angels, werewolves, dragons, gods and goddesses. YUM! Though Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card are well worth reading. I love watching me some lasers, aliens, hybrids, robots, spaceships, wormholes, clones, gadgets and gizmos. Scrupt! But... Avatar: The Last Airbender is worth buying the DVDs to watch the series over and over, great by yourself but better with young ones in your life. Speaking of Avatar: The Last Airbender... they are making a movie out of it. Unfortunately, I won't pay to see it. If you hate racism, I encourage all of you to check out this website: racebending.com If you feel so moved, please sign the petition. Thanks! If you feel even more moved, please pass it on to your family/friends. If you have any questions, I would be glad answer/dialogue on or off list. Kemper From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Fri Mar 20 22:39:26 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:39:26 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote: Carol: > For me the great mystery of all time is how and when we became human (how could something like homo habilis evolve into *us*?) Geoff: Of course, speaking as a committed Christian, I could suggest possible answers. :-) From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sat Mar 21 18:17:56 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:17:56 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: <9BDCA8D335D14486A05633C52F49107B@miles> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" wrote: > > Carol wrote: > > Going back to the original question stated in the subject line, > > What are your favorite science fiction/fantasy authors, I'd have > > none except LOTR (which I reread annually from the time I was > > till I was about thirty-five and still return to occasionally) > > and, of course, the harry Potter books. I've tried other scifi or > > fantasy authors and just can't get caught up in their worlds or > > their writing, possibly because I don't care to think about the > > future and am intrigued by the real past (historical and > > prehistoric). For me the great mystery of all time is how and > > when we became human (how could something like homo habilis > > evolve into *us*?) > Miles > But that's what good fantasy and science fiction deals with - IMO. > But it leads to an interesting question - what is "good" fantasy > and science fiction? > What I need in a good book, and this is the third and last issue, > is a believable "world". I don't need a world full of myths and > languages like in Tolkien, I like Rowling's potterverse good > enough, though I sometimes shake my head about all it's flaws. Even > those books that use our time and world, without fantasy elements > ("normal" fiction) set a fictional picture of our world. This > picture can be believable - or not. "Bad" literature does not > care for reality or internal logic - and to have a non-authentic > version of 21st century London or an illogical 33rd century Vulcan > is both frustrating for a reader who sometimes thinks about what > s/he's reading. > Miles Geoff: Now here I would agree and disagree with you. ("Go not to the Elves for advcie for they say both 'Yea' and 'Nay' - Tolkien)!. I like a book which is good and easy to read with a world which allows me to exercise my "willing suspension of disbelief". Like Carol, I am a great fan of Tolkien. I 'met' the books when I was 15 or 16, a year or so after ROTK was published and read them nesrly every year until my young family was growing up and there wasn't really time. You may be patronising about his myths and languages but he meets your criterion of having internal logic and he went to great lengths to ensure that that aim was met. With regard to your non-authentic version of 21st century London I think but this can be your reality if the time scale of what is written is set in a later time frame than our own real position. Curiously, your grumble about internal logic follows your comment about liking JKR's universe - flaws and all. Perhaps my suspension of belief leads me to be naive. I have to admit that I like to take what I read at face value and I also enjoy a lot of young people's fiction. I probably would miss some of the finer nitpickable points of Harry's world if I didn't belong to OTC and Main where I can be re-educated in discussing the finer points of logic. :-) Geoff PS If you're talking Star Trek, don't you mean 23rd century? From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Mar 22 04:14:34 2009 From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:14:34 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > C S Lewis - The Narnia books (except The Horse and His Boy) > and the first of the Perelandra books (Out of the Silent Planet) Interesting...in my opinion, the Silver Chair and the Last Battle are his worst books.... I still like Perelandra, but as an adult I can't appreciate That Hideous Strength anymore Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Mar 22 04:19:09 2009 From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:19:09 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > jkoney: > I couldn't possibly rank them since they change so frequently. > J.R.R. Tolkien > Eddings: One of the most detailed fantasy worlds after Tolkien > Eric Flint: The 1632 world and also the Bellisarius series > David Webber > David Drake > John Ringo > > If Mercedes Lackey could end a story in more than two pages I would like her alot more. > Oh goodness, how could I have forgotten David Weber...? Although the brand new Honor Harrington book is a huge disappointment. (Although I had NOT known that he planned to kill HH off...I DID notice the similarities to Nelson -- particularly lost eye and arm..but I didn't make the logical conclusion that that meant she would die in the arms of her flag captain...anyway, he's changed his mind)... Susaqn From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Mar 22 04:21:37 2009 From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:21:37 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Alla: > > Hm, I think the only one I would cross out from your top picks list is Mercedes Lackey or at least limit myself to her earlier books - goodness love Herald Mage trilogy, I vented more than once here as to how much in my opinion her books went down in quality since she started publishing several books a year in great details. Everybody else you listed I love, I mean no wait, I have not read McKinley. ****** McKinley's writing is for juveniles, but they are good for totally hopeless, simple romantics like me...my spouse and I had not only BOTH read The Blue Sword but liked the SAME PASSAGE in it...(discovered in our early courtship; the rest is history).. > > Whom would I put on top? Very tough question, but since the question says your favorites, not the ones I consider most skilled, I would do something like that: EXACTLY...I did NOT ask for best written! > > 1. Alfred Bester (The demolished man is one of my favorite books of all time, period) > > 2. Jim Butcher (Hey you asked for favorites, I am not claiming that his skills are near on the level of Tolkien or Susan Cooper, but I think he writes intelligent books, cool stories and created great characters) > > 3. J.K. Rowling. (Yes, I do believe that books will stand the test of time). > > 4. Tolkien (I love the books, but just cannot love the characters on the same level as I love the others, but I certainly give him the first place of the most skilled one, wait no I think Bester is close) > > 5. OMG I used to love Heinlein when I was younger, have not read anything of his recently. > > 6. Susan Cooper I love the Dark is rising. > > 7. There are several russian fantasts I adore, but see no point in listing them, I am not even sure if they are translated. > From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Mar 22 04:31:14 2009 From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:31:14 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" wrote: > > Carol]: > | So let me turn the tables a bit and ask the rest of you: Why > | read sci-fi or fantasy or both? What's the attraction of those > | genres, and do you prefer one over the other? > > > Alla: > > Interesting question and the answer will be long. I am the person who will read practically any genre as long as it engages me. The only criteria is that I have to find it interesting, really; therefore I never read any particular genre for any particular purpose besides enjoying the book. Ah, I guess I would not read pure horror story. Note I do not mean *violent story*, I mean staff like Steven King's, that I would not read period, no matter how well it is written, simply because I know myself to be very very easily scared. I do not watch horror movies either. I'm with you, Alla...I read one Stephen King novel and I vowed never to read another...I agree his is a highly skilled author (and he sounds like a really great guy) but I do not like fear! (One exception is Dracula by Bram Stoker....scary, but an incredibly well done novel that I have enjoyed)... *************** My answer is similar to Alla's. I don't think science fiction/fantasy is about the future -- that's a limited vein of the genre...but I DO think it's about alternative realities...it IS a way to stretch our thinking and stereotypes and hidebound prejudices without as much risk... So, I think, for example, that lots of progressive ideas have been put forward in science fiction/fantasy terms by such authors as Ursula LeGuin, Octovia Butler, James Tiptree, Jr., J.K. Rowling, John Varley, Marian Zimmer Bradley, etc... I was thrilled at age 20 to read The Shattered Chain with its "Oath of the Free Amazons..." However, there are very conservative writers who I enjoy, too! -- how much more conservative could Falkenberg's Legions be? But of course, it's about right and fighting for justice, and I've always loved those kinds of novels. I think it's about being fascinating by a different -- and perhaps better - world. Susan From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Sun Mar 22 12:47:23 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:47:23 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: Susan: > > C S Lewis - The Narnia books (except The Horse and His Boy) > > and the first of the Perelandra books (Out of the Silent Planet) > > > Interesting...in my opinion, the Silver Chair and the Last Battle are his worst books.... Geoff; Interesting how different people see the books. I think that "The Horse and his Boy" is dreadful. It just doesn't seem to chime with the rest of the series at all. "The Last Battle" is one of my favourites because of the fascinating Narnian view of trhe afterlife... Susan: > I still like Perelandra, but as an adult I can't appreciate That Hideous Strength anymore Geoff: Agreed. It has been suggested that when he came to write the last novel, he had been influenced by Charles Williams. I think "Out of the Silent Planet" is the best. The second is a bit wordy in places. Lots of talk and no action. From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 22 18:05:34 2009 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 22 Mar 2009 18:05:34 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/22/2009, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1237745134.147.78304.m5@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 22, 2009 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2009 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catlady at wicca.net Mon Mar 23 00:01:38 2009 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:01:38 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alla wrote in : << I read part of LOTR in Russian translation back home, could not finish and thought it was too boring lol. When I read it in the original, I realized it was just a very bad translation. >> Yes, books are at the mercy of their translators. But I wonder if the translation of LOTR was only allowed because of perestroika? God and archangels and kings and vassals and noble knights and respectful peasants and a dislike of any technology more complicated than one blacksmith can do with a couple of hammers and tongs and one anvil, and a deep hatred of mass production ... it seems to me that Tolkien's ideology is totally antithetical to Soviet ideology; even the parts they agreed on (peasants should respectfully obey their betters) were not things that the Soviet Union wanted to verbally praise. Tell me how wrong I am. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 23 00:19:38 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:19:38 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Alla wrote in : > > << I read part of LOTR in Russian translation back home, could not finish and thought it was too boring lol. When I read it in the original, I realized it was just a very bad translation. >> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > > Yes, books are at the mercy of their translators. But I wonder if the translation of LOTR was only allowed because of perestroika? God and archangels and kings and vassals and noble knights and respectful peasants and a dislike of any technology more complicated than one blacksmith can do with a couple of hammers and tongs and one anvil, and a deep hatred of mass production ... it seems to me that Tolkien's ideology is totally antithetical to Soviet ideology; even the parts they agreed on (peasants should respectfully obey their betters) were not things that the Soviet Union wanted to verbally praise. Tell me how wrong I am. Alla: I had no idea on whether you are right or wrong, so I figured I will take a look on Wiki as to when first russian translation appeared and even if they are off a few years, it may give a general idea. Turns out in general you are absolutely correct. I mean, samizdat versions were circulating since early times, and official **abridged* version appeared in print in 1982, this was about it (and abridged I am sure meant LOTS of stuff was taken out), but this was about it. I am pretty sure mine was complete translation though and I read it in the early 1990s, just not very good one and I have read better one, but I was already here when I did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translations_of_The_Lord_of_the_Rings From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 23 06:01:33 2009 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <716767.63784.qm@web63703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I'm more into the comedy fantasy, i.e., Robert Asprin and Piers Anthony. There is a lovely book about some one named Thraxas that is a hoot, also. ? Alex Hogan --- On Sat, 3/21/09, Geoff Bannister wrote: From: Geoff Bannister Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 1:17 PM --- In HPFGU-OTChatter@ yahoogroups. com, "Miles" wrote: > > Carol wrote: > > Going back to the original question stated in the subject line, > > What are your favorite science fiction/fantasy authors, I'd have > > none except LOTR (which I reread annually from the time I was > > till I was about thirty-five and still return to occasionally) > > and, of course, the harry Potter books. I've tried other scifi or > > fantasy authors and just can't get caught up in their worlds or > > their writing, possibly because I don't care to think about the > > future and am intrigued by the real past (historical and > > prehistoric) . For me the great mystery of all time is how and > > when we became human (how could something like homo habilis > > evolve into *us*?) > Miles > But that's what good fantasy and science fiction deals with - IMO. > But it leads to an interesting question - what is "good" fantasy > and science fiction? > What I need in a good book, and this is the third and last issue, > is a believable "world". I don't need a world full of myths and > languages like in Tolkien, I like Rowling's potterverse good > enough, though I sometimes shake my head about all it's flaws. Even > those books that use our time and world, without fantasy elements > ("normal" fiction) set a fictional picture of our world. This > picture can be believable - or not. "Bad" literature does not > care for reality or internal logic - and to have a non-authentic > version of 21st century London or an illogical 33rd century Vulcan > is both frustrating for a reader who sometimes thinks about what > s/he's reading. > Miles Geoff: Now here I would agree and disagree with you. ("Go not to the Elves for advcie for they say both 'Yea' and 'Nay' - Tolkien)!. I like a book which is good and easy to read with a world which allows me to exercise my "willing suspension of disbelief". Like Carol, I am a great fan of Tolkien. I 'met' the books when I was 15 or 16, a year or so after ROTK was published and read them nesrly every year until my young family was growing up and there wasn't really time. You may be patronising about his myths and languages but he meets your criterion of having internal logic and he went to great lengths to ensure that that aim was met. With regard to your non-authentic version of 21st century London I think but this can be your reality if the time scale of what is written is set in a later time frame than our own real position. Curiously, your grumble about internal logic follows your comment about liking JKR's universe - flaws and all. Perhaps my suspension of belief leads me to be naive. I have to admit that I like to take what I read at face value and I also enjoy a lot of young people's fiction. I probably would miss some of the finer nitpickable points of Harry's world if I didn't belong to OTC and Main where I can be re-educated in discussing the finer points of logic. :-) Geoff PS If you're talking Star Trek, don't you mean 23rd century? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lavaluvn at yahoo.com Mon Mar 23 08:07:55 2009 From: lavaluvn at yahoo.com (Andromeda) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:07:55 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/ffantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: > > > Alla: > > > > Hm, I think the only one I would cross out from your top picks list is Mercedes Lackey or at least limit myself to her earlier books - goodness love Herald Mage trilogy, I vented more than once here as to how much in my opinion her books went down in quality since she started publishing several books a year in great details. Everybody else you listed I love, I mean no wait, I have not read McKinley. > ****** > McKinley's writing is for juveniles, but they are good for totally hopeless, simple romantics like me...my spouse and I had not only BOTH read The Blue Sword but liked the SAME PASSAGE in it...(discovered in our early courtship; the rest is history).. > > Oooh, which passage? The Blue Sword is definitely one of my all time favorites. I have to disagree a little though - McKinley's writing isn't just for juveniles. More like Rowling in being for all ages. She also has truly adult novels. But Blue Sword is definitely for romantics at heart. I don't think anyone has mentioned Juliet Marillier yet, she's very good. Sort of historical fantasy (Celtic, Gaelic or Pictish with a twist of magic & Faerie). Patricia McKillip's books are classics. Gorgeous language. I love the Riddlemaster series. Otherwise, I second most of the other recs! Oh, and Katherine Kerr - I love her Deverry books. Cheers, Cheryl From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Mar 23 13:45:31 2009 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:45:31 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat: Thanks Jkoney, Alla and Geoff for your replies. It seems we've all gravitated to HP4GU for the quality of discussion found here. > Geoff: > But it all boils down to "each to his own" when it comes to our feelings > about the Wizarding World and no matter how much some contributors > to this group like to range their big guns to try to persuade us otherwise, > we all hold - and will continue to hold - our own interpretation of the > events. > Potioncat: True. Some of us just want to discuss the stories, some want to debate the nuances, or propose theories. At the end of the day we probably leave with our opinions unchanged, yet enriched by the process. What is it, though, that has made intelligent adults spend so many hours on HP? At the minimum, those of us here have taken time to write posts and talk about the books. But some are spending more time, moderating, maintaining web sites, updating information--all sorts of unseen, unpaid work. Are other fandoms like this? Has anyone here been to the conventions? What are they like? From n2fgc at arrl.net Mon Mar 23 17:47:32 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:47:32 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FF2C5D42C4E4DE39D9462AC5142686A@FRODO> | Potioncat: | True. | | Some of us just want to discuss the stories, some want to | debate the nuances, or propose theories. At the end of the | day we probably leave with our opinions unchanged, yet | enriched by the process. | | What is it, though, that has made intelligent adults spend so | many hours on HP? At the minimum, those of us here have taken | time to write posts and talk about the books. But some are | spending more time, moderating, maintaining web sites, | updating information--all sorts of unseen, unpaid work. Are | other fandoms like this? [Lee]: That, my dear friend, *Is* fandom. Look at Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica (The original), LOTR, and any other series you can think of. Star Trek is a huge example: Newsgroups, conventions, websites, fanfic, etc. I've written a fanfic for Galactica--1980 (Part of the original Battlestar stuff), and there's a whole fic site and several other sites devoted to that. LOTR has name lists, sites, and other stuff. Fandom is what one makes it to be. Smiles, Lee :-) From d2dmiles at yahoo.de Mon Mar 23 19:38:52 2009 From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:38:52 +0100 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? References: Message-ID: Geoff Bannister wrote: > You may be patronising about (Tolkien's) myths and languages but > he meets your criterion of having internal logic and he > went to great lengths to ensure that that aim was met. Miles: I'm far from patronising, I'm impressed. The only problem is, he set a standard no other author can ever meet, but that's not a problem for Tolkien's work. Geoff: > With regard to your non-authentic version of 21st century > London I think but this can be your reality if the time > scale of what is written is set in a later time frame than > our own real position. Miles: Sure, but I wrote (or meant to write) of fiction taking place "today", not in 20 years. Geoff > Curiously, your grumble about internal logic follows your > comment about liking JKR's universe - flaws and all. > > Perhaps my suspension of belief leads me to be naive. I > have to admit that I like to take what I read at face > value and I also enjoy a lot of young people's fiction. Miles: Same here. But I'm sure you have your own limits of naivety. For example, if in a book playing in London, Clapham Junction would be described as near Big Ben, you wouldn't like it. I had to read a bit in wikipedia to find this example, so you can be sure I would never recognise such a mistake. I usually do not analyse the books I read, but my personal limits of naivety are - well, individual, as yours are. As a social scientist with some knowledge of statistics, I recognise inconsistencies in numbers. So I grumble about Rowling's mistakes in that area. Geoff: > PS If you're talking Star Trek, don't you mean 23rd century? Miles: Sure, typo. By the way, if you (or anyone reading this) like Star Trek - Diane Duane: Spock's World - provides a deep historical, ethnological and cultural background for the Vulcans in the Star Trek universe. And I forgot one author: Tad Williams, one of the best fantasy authors I know. Miles From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk Mon Mar 23 22:08:28 2009 From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:08:28 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" wrote: Geoff > > Curiously, your grumble about internal logic follows your > > comment about liking JKR's universe - flaws and all. > > > > Perhaps my suspension of belief leads me to be naive. I > > have to admit that I like to take what I read at face > > value and I also enjoy a lot of young people's fiction. Miles: > Same here. But I'm sure you have your own limits of naivety. For example, if > in a book playing in London, Clapham Junction would be described as near Big > Ben, you wouldn't like it. Geoff: It depends on what you mean by "near". Clapham Junction is about 4 miles from Big Ben. Within the grander view of Greater London - a basic circle about 25-30 miles in diameter, this could be classed as near. BTW, to validate my London geographic credentials, I lived within a couple of miles of Clapham Junction for 40 years. I remember being amused when I first moved to the Exmoor area 15 years ago and was doing some supply teaching in one of the local schools. When I commented that I had lived in London for many years, a pupil told me that he was going to London that weekend. I asked where and got the reply "Reading". A town which happens to be 40 miles west of the capital!! Perhaps he grew up to be the writer of the book you mention.... :-)) But I must admit that I find the geography and towns of the UK as interpreted by some writers across the "pond" be lacking. Probably younger writers who haven't spent time with reference material. Das ist Leben, nicht war? From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Mar 24 11:19:11 2009 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:19:11 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Experience In-Reply-To: <2D88CFFE4036495C8A8562AECAD8F283@FRODO> Message-ID: Potioncat takes a deep gulp of PepperUp Potion and gives her computer a swift kick. Between a head cold and a slow modem, she missed the posts by Kemper and Lee. Hoping biological viruses can't surf the net, she continues. Kemper wrote: > My family, mom, sibs, wife, and inlaws have all read the books. They are passive, quiet fans. Some of my friends have read the series, they too are free from fandom. I do not hide my nerd, my geek. I make it look risickulously bad ass. And that endears them and strangers to me. Potioncat: The one adult I know who was a HP fan, is the one who encouraged me to read the books. But she stopped reading a PoA. It was too dark for her tastes, but then, her life was sort of dark then too. For the most part, my family tolerate my interest in HP. I snipped the part about using the books with teens, how did that work? > > [Lee]: > Hmm--don't forget that theme park that's supposed to be opening up > sometime...sounds like it will be fun! And maybe I'll get there. Potioncat: I visited Islands of Adventure last fall. That part of the park looks good--and based on the other sections--I have high hopes for it. Keep in mind, I am not an amusement park fan. Actually it was sort of funny, because of time I had urged my son and husband to hurry on the ride they wanted. I was following behind and took a wrong turn. Found myself at a wall looking at a Ministry of Magic poster. It was a while before I caught up to them. > > [Lee]: > > I've been to a couple of bookstore opening but no conventions. Too far > away, especially now that Art doesn't drive more than about town. Potioncat: I was asked if I was going to the bookstore event, but I had a feeling my answer might be the determining factor in committment papers. Lee: > But I would like to see, perhaps a couple years after the last movie, a > really *Good* miniseries for each book that excludes nothing from the books > and doesn't ad what I call "silliness" like the shrunken head on the Knight > bus in the POA movie and the badly done first task in the GOF movie. > Potioncat: Me too! I think the books would lend themselves very well to that. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 01:07:39 2009 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:07:39 -0000 Subject: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: > I'm with you, Alla...I read one Stephen King novel and I vowed never to read another...I agree his is a highly skilled author (and he sounds like a really great guy) but I do not like fear! (One exception is Dracula by Bram Stoker....scary, but an incredibly well done novel that I have enjoyed)... > > > *************** > > My answer is similar to Alla's. I don't think science fiction/fantasy is about the future -- that's a limited vein of the genre...but I DO think it's about alternative realities...it IS a way to stretch our thinking and stereotypes and hidebound prejudices without as much risk... Alla: Right and What ifs do not have to be only the type of some key event at some point went differently than in our universe. Guy Kay's novels for example all based on the cultures of different countries in different times (late, early medieval, etc) with very very recognizable patterns, but he adds some magic, adds some VERY interesting made up religions and here we go, new world arises, which is to me a joy to explore almost always. Like for example Tigana is based on medieval Italy, if one is A LITTLE bit familiar with it, one would recognize it, but then we have IMO fascinating religion, interesting use of magic and the different world action takes place in. From alexisnguyen at gmail.com Wed Mar 25 19:18:18 2009 From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:18:18 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lee: > I read to escape the bad news of the present, so to speak. I want my books > to transport me to places that are different and may be better, and they may > be worse, but there's some character to make things better. I want my books > to stimulate my imagination, entertain me, and show me different ways of > thinking, trying to see us humans through the eyes of someone from another > world, or a dragon, or whatever. Ali: I agree with this somewhat. For me, my reading falls into two distinct, unequal portions, the bigger being escapist fiction/fantasy (the other being the more "literature-worthy" books that some of my college friends thinks is the only acceptable form of reading - something about the college environment must bring out the snob within certain people). It's about escaping from the real world, not having to deal with the news and all it's terrible scenes for a little while. Oh sure. The Twilight series is never, ever, EVER going to win any important awards for writing, story, or anything else (I hope), but it's ridiculously fun to read, and I'd much prefer it over a Faulkner or a Hemingway or even a history book (and that includes art history, a personal love of mine). And the supernatural kick I've been on as of late hasn't seen anything that's going to be remembered as literature - at best, some will be remembered as fondly as a Dumas (pere, not fils) work. There are already too many terrible things happening and that people do to each other already; I don't want that in my reading. I want fantasy, and I also want that my fantasy remain fantastical - I want the hero to win, good to triumph, and villains to perish (and I realize very much that even this is somewhat subjective since, for example, I think Lancelot of the Arthurian legends was a terrible person who never got what should've been coming to him and many, many, many people think that Lancelot and Guinevere is the great love story). I don't want to have to remember that we're in a recession, that there are wars all over the world, or even something minor like the Korean civil war is technically still going out. None of that in my light reading, thank you very much. Carol: > Yes. Thank you. I snipped most of your response because these two are the > reasons that most appeal to me--escapism and "what if?" Futuristic > societies, OTOH, don't interest me at all. We're too dependent on technology > already. Ali: Funny story. Many summers ago, at the U. of Pennsylvania, a little mouse got into the system, chewed through some wires, and shut down the entire university for the rest of the day. We had electricity, the computers worked, and all of that, but the network was very, very much incapacited (couldn't even print from your desk), thereby rendering the whole university unable to do much work. And yet I still can't quite agree about being too dependent on technology ... must be the fact that, as I am often reminded, I've never known life before the Internet (but I'll also remind everyone that the Internet was born many, many years ago, not in the 90s when it became popular). ~Ali, who lives in terror at the thought of life without computers From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 22:56:39 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:56:39 -0000 Subject: Too much technology? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ali: > Funny story. Many summers ago, at the U. of Pennsylvania, a little > mouse got into the system, chewed through some wires, and shut down > the entire university for the rest of the day. We had electricity, > the computers worked, and all of that, but the network was very, very > much incapacited (couldn't even print from your desk), thereby > rendering the whole university unable to do much work. And yet I > still can't quite agree about being too dependent on technology ... > must be the fact that, as I am often reminded, I've never known life > before the Internet (but I'll also remind everyone that the Internet > was born many, many years ago, not in the 90s when it became popular). > > ~Ali, who lives in terror at the thought of life without computers > Carol responds: If only I could go back to a time when high-tech was an IBM Selectric and an eight-track stereo! True, I had to use ditto masters to create tests and assignments for my students, so I was grateful for Xerox machines (excuse me, I mean photocopiers--my generation likes to use brand names generically). We didn't need computers. We typed our business letters and hand wrote our correspondence to our friends and relatives (we still wrote thank you letters in those days, for one). We didn't just rush off an e-mail response (there wasn't any e-mail); we sat down and thoroughly enjoyed the letter and then wrote a thoughtful response to it. (I've saved all my letters from those days. Most of them were worth saving.) We didn't have cell phones annoying people in malls and restaurants and endangering drivers and passengers. We didn't even have pagers until the 1990s. We didn't "meet" other people online or "text" our friends. We knew our neighbors, and we drove to activities (church, school, clubs and organizations) to have real (as opposed to "virtual") fun, or we played board games at home with people we knew rather than online video games with strangers. We didn't need computers to entertain us. We had books and magazines. (Yes, we had television, but I think we had about six channels, not sixty--or three hundred--and we knew its dangers and limitations.) I'm glad to know that some younger people, including you, still read. I know teenagers and children who would rather play video games than read a book or play a board game. I miss those days. I really, really miss those days. You could safely walk or ride a bike around the neighborhood then, and children could safely play outside. Carol, who couldn't be a freelance copyeditor without a computer but still considers herself a slave to technology (and its constant upgrades and "improvements") From predigirl1 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 26 03:23:57 2009 From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <455393.7877.qm@web63704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Humor! Piers Anthony, Robert Asprin. Many of the "Star Trek" series (mostly by?Peter David).? The "Thraxas" books! ? Alex Hogan --- On Tue, 3/24/09, dumbledore11214 wrote: From: dumbledore11214 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: favorite science fiction/fantasy authors - what are yours? To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 8:07 PM --- In HPFGU-OTChatter@ yahoogroups. com, "susanmcgee48176" wrote: > I'm with you, Alla...I read one Stephen King novel and I vowed never to read another...I agree his is a highly skilled author (and he sounds like a really great guy) but I do not like fear! (One exception is Dracula by Bram Stoker....scary, but an incredibly well done novel that I have enjoyed)... > > > ************ *** > > My answer is similar to Alla's. I don't think science fiction/fantasy is about the future -- that's a limited vein of the genre...but I DO think it's about alternative realities... it IS a way to stretch our thinking and stereotypes and hidebound prejudices without as much risk... Alla: Right and What ifs do not have to be only the type of some key event at some point went differently than in our universe. Guy Kay's novels for example all based on the cultures of different countries in different times (late, early medieval, etc) with very very recognizable patterns, but he adds some magic, adds some VERY interesting made up religions and here we go, new world arises, which is to me a joy to explore almost always. Like for example Tigana is based on medieval Italy, if one is A LITTLE bit familiar with it, one would recognize it, but then we have IMO fascinating religion, interesting use of magic and the different world action takes place in. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bboyminn at yahoo.com Sat Mar 28 18:41:35 2009 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:41:35 -0000 Subject: Life, Death, Politics - CDO, CDS, AIG, and Government Corruption. Message-ID: This is highly political, so I'm not really sure I should post it. If you blood pressure goes up easily, best not read this. I was so infuriated, it took me three sittings to get through the 8 pages. If you really want to know what destroy, or seriously harmed, the work economy, and the level of corruption in both business and government that is behind it, read this Rolling Stone article. But again, only if you think your blood pressure can stand it. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover Like I said, I read until I was too infuriated to keep reading. Then came back and did the same three times to make my way through it. The worst part is, we as citizens of the world are powerless to do anything about it. The rich preserve their wealth at the expense of future generations of the poor and middle class. Steve/bluewizard From bboyminn at yahoo.com Sat Mar 28 18:52:25 2009 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:52:25 -0000 Subject: Life, Death, Politics - CDO, CDS, AIG, and Government Corruption. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ahhhh! I need to learn to proofread before I post - --- "Steve" wrote: > > ... > > If you really want to know what destroy, or seriously harmed, > the work economy, ... That should be... "...what destroyED, or seriously harmed, the WORLD economy..." Steve/bluewizard From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 29 02:18:35 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:18:35 -0000 Subject: Earth Hour Message-ID: Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any create ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without going insane? (I assume it's okay to talk on the phone in the dark!) Thanks, Carol, who's starting to wonder whether she's really going to go through with it! From md at exit-reality.com Sun Mar 29 03:37:12 2009 From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:37:12 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Earth Hour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c9b01f$a577dae0$f06790a0$@com> I totally forgot, but I adopted a shelter dog today, so I did something good. (and that's why I've been distracted) md -----Original Message----- From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 10:19 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-OTChatter Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Earth Hour Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any create ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without going insane? (I assume it's okay to talk on the phone in the dark!) Thanks, Carol, who's starting to wonder whether she's really going to go through with it! From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Mar 29 13:16:44 2009 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 13:16:44 -0000 Subject: Earth Hour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Carol" wrote: > > Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any create ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without going insane? (I assume it's okay to talk on the phone in the dark!) Potioncat: What and when is Earth Hour? The only thing I can think of, is to use an I-Pod or a battery powered radio to listen to music--or an MP3 player with a book downloaded. I don't have an IPod, but I do have a hand-crank powered emergency radio. From n2fgc at arrl.net Sun Mar 29 16:21:23 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:21:23 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Earth Hour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [Carol]: | Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any | create ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the | lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without | going [Lee]: Ah, that's when good audiobooks come in handy. Sit back and listen to a good book. Or pray and meditate, have a good phone conversation, go out and take an evening walk and enjoy the stars (if the weather's good). Those would be some of my suggestions. Cheers, Lee :-) (Who generally keeps her lights off unless Art needs them.) From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 29 17:41:05 2009 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 29 Mar 2009 17:41:05 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/29/2009, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1238348465.22.21458.m1@yahoogroups.com> Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 29, 2009 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2009 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 29 18:17:56 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:17:56 -0000 Subject: Earth Hour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Carol" wrote: > > > > Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any create ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without going insane? (I assume it's okay to talk on the phone in the dark!) > > Potioncat: > What and when is Earth Hour? > > The only thing I can think of, is to use an I-Pod or a battery powered radio to listen to music--or an MP3 player with a book downloaded. > > I don't have an IPod, but I do have a hand-crank powered emergency radio. Carol responds: Earth Hour was 8:30 to 9:30 p.m. last night (Saturday, March 28). The idea was for everyone to turn off their lights at that time so that, like New Year's Eve, it passed over the globe from one time zone to the next. You can find all sorts of stuff about it on You Tube (and, ostensibly, on Twitter, Facebook, My Space, and all those other virtual places that I never go). I don't know how much energy it really saved, if any, since many people didn't even know about it and, of course, security lights and street lights remained on. Anyone who turned off their lights and drove somewhere or watched TV in the dark more or less defeated the (symbolic) purpose. I don't have an IPod, either. I ended up taking a short walk to look at the stars. Given that the security lights in my complex were still on (as were many apartment lights), the only constellations I could recognize were Orion and the Big Dipper. The crescent moon was oddly bright considering how little of it was lit. After that I went back inside, changed to my pajamas i and brushed my teeth in the semidarkness (light came in through the closed blinds and I used a battery-powered reading light in the bathroom). After that, I set a timer for the remaining time till 9:30 and read with the aid of a flashlight, feeling rather like Movie!Harry reading under the covers with the aid of his wand. (Somehow, "Lumos!" and a wand-shaped object like a pencil doesn't work for me. ) It was an interesting little miniadventure. Twice I accidentally turned on a light (an automatic reflex) and quickly switched it off again. I managed to live without electric lights, a TV, or my computer for an hour, but I didn't turn off the digital clocks or the digital modem to my computer with its tiny green lights, so it wasn't like a power outage. I knew that I *could* turn the lights on if I wanted to, and I wasn't in any danger or even discomfort. Of course, if I'd been *completely* in the dark without even a flashlight to read with, I don't know what I would have done. Sit in the dark and do exercises or sing or just think? Go to bed at 8:30? I was going to light candles, but I could only find one scented candle and two tea candles, and with the light coming in from the security lights, I didn't need them. Carol, now thinking that she should have shut off the breakers to inconvenience herself more seriously From justcarol67 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 29 18:34:37 2009 From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:34:37 -0000 Subject: Earth Hour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carol earlier: > | Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any creative ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without going [insane]? > > [Lee]: > Ah, that's when good audiobooks come in handy. Sit back and listen to a good book. Or pray and meditate, have a good phone conversation, go out and take an evening walk and enjoy the stars (if the weather's good). Those would be some of my suggestions. Carol: But an audiobook requires electricity, doesn't it? Or does it use batteries like a flashlight. And I thought about using the phone to share my experience with somebody who was doing the same thing, but a phone requires electricity (doesn't it?) and it (like an audiobook) involves modern technology. I was going to play Abe Lincoln and read by firelight, but it was too warm to light a fire even if I had any wood other than kindling! As I said earlier, I did take a walk, and I have no idea how to meditate (I would end up thinking about the same things I think about at night when I'm trying to go to sleep, generally whatever is happening in my own life or whatever I'm reading about). Reading by flashlight worked pretty well, actually, but next time (if there is a next time) I'll try to be better prepared and have enough candles (without digging out the Advent candles!) to read by candlelight instead. Carol, wondering if anyone else on the list participated in Earth Hour From catlady at wicca.net Sun Mar 29 21:08:10 2009 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:08:10 -0000 Subject: computers, modernity, earth hour, new dog Message-ID: Ali wrote in : << who lives in terror at the thought of life without computers >> Read STORM, which was a best seller in like 1940. I enjoyed it very much. In addition to having people and events and a happy ending, it is to me an alternate world, because people somehow do stuff even tho' they don't even know that they don't have computers, weather satellites, television... Carol wrote in : << I know teenagers and children who would rather play video games than read a book or play a board game. >> Even in those days (I'm assuming 1960s, the earliest I remember), there were endless complaints about children and teenagers who didn't like to read and would rather watch television (despite only 6 channels, some of them useless), play pinball (which required going someplace with pinball machines), or just hang out. Even in those days, there were endless complaints that television was making children sedentary and overweight, not like that self-named 'greatest generation' who was doing the complaining. (Tom Brokaw didn't invent that name; he picked it up because it was already in use.) << I miss those days. I really, really miss those days. You could safely walk or ride a bike around the neighborhood then, and children could safely play outside. >> It's just as safe to walk, bike, or play outside in nice suburban neighborhoods as it was then. It's just that modern parents are paranoid, partly due to intense news coverage of the same amount of child abductions as occurred in those days, and part of it is the psychology that the mom in the house was 'looking after' the child playing a couple of blocks away, so it felt safe, but the mom at a job an hour's commute away is not 'looking after' the child. [It is the only the gang infested neighborhoods where there is significant danger of being hit by a stray bullet. Those neighborhoods were were already gang infested in those days, but the gang members didn't have firearms then, only knives, razors, and baseball bats, so there were no drive-by shootings and fewer innocent bystanders accidentally killed. *** On the other hand, there was a lot more drunk driving in those days and fewer seat belts, so a lot more deaths in traffic accidents and pedestrians (children) hit by cars.] Another thing the modern people are paranoid about is measles. Steve bboyminn wrote in : << Ahhhh! I need to learn to proofread before I post - > If you really want to know what destroy, or seriously harmed, > the work economy, ... That should be... "...what destroyED, or seriously harmed, the WORLD economy..." >> In one of those two changes, your fingers were right the first time: "the WORK economy". That's the big new discovery that Adam Smith reported in THE WEALTH OF NATIONS in 1776, that a nation's wealth is not the amount of gold and silver locked up in the royal treasury, but the amount of useful and productive work done by its people. Two-hundred-some years after that was discovered, politicians hypocritically invoking the name of Adam Smith decided that a nation's wealth consists not of useful and productive work (and natural resources, which I don't recall Smith having mentioned) but of imaginary financial transactions. Carol wrote in : << Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have any create ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without going insane? (I assume it's okay to talk on the phone in the dark!) >> I don't observe Earth Hour because I think that deprivation in the name of conservation is like observing the Yom Kippur fast in the name of healthy eating habits. However, I heard on the news that many restaurants were offering candlelight dinner specials. I was at an frp game with some friends. We *could* have turned the lights off and played by candlelight (the Golds have ample supplies of candles and flashlights), or possibly by the light of the people across the street, who were playing a very loud basketball game in their driveway by FLOODLIGHTS. md wrote in : << I adopted a shelter dog today >> Congratulations! May you-uns have a long, happy, healthy life together! From n2fgc at arrl.net Sun Mar 29 23:18:40 2009 From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:18:40 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Earth Hour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | Carol earlier: | > | Did anyone celebrate Earth Hour and, if so, do you have | any creative ideas for how to spend an hour by yourself with | the lights out (except for a candle and a flashlight) without | going [insane]? | > | > [Lee]: | > Ah, that's when good audiobooks come in handy. Sit back | and listen to a good book. Or pray and meditate, have a good | phone conversation, go out and take an evening walk and enjoy | the stars (if the weather's good). Those would be some of my | suggestions. | | Carol: | But an audiobook requires electricity, doesn't it? Or does it | use batteries like a flashlight. And I thought about using | the phone to share my experience with somebody who was doing | the same thing, but a phone requires electricity (doesn't | it?) and it (like an audiobook) involves modern technology. [Lee]: Well, you can run audiobooks on battery-powered players or computers, or they have them on these "Play-Away" devices which are sort of dedicated battery-powered MP3 players. Our library has them; they're cute. However, if you really want to not use technology, I guess the phone and stuff are out, but I wasn't so strict. Like I say, an evening walk, or a gathering with friends and telling of stories or playing games, etc. If you're with a church, a candle-light prayer vigil might work. Those are some of the things I could suggest if there is a next time for this. Cheers, Lee :-) From catlady at wicca.net Mon Mar 30 00:06:14 2009 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:06:14 -0000 Subject: Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell Message-ID: I recently got around to reading JONATHAN STRANGE AND MR NORRELL. I enjoyed it. If JS&MR spoilers are allowed on this list, I would like to discuss the alternate history in which it is set. As a clueless nerd with no sense of humor, I find it unlikely that a history which diverged from RL history during the reign of King Henry I of England would lead to exactly the same Britain, America, France, King George III, Prince Regent, and Napoleon I that RL had. Specifically, even with my ignorance of English history, it seems to me that it would have messed up Carol's Wars of the Roses. Such as, would there be a House of Lancaster if the city of Lancaster had been burnt to bare ground in 1110? From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com Mon Mar 30 05:09:41 2009 From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:09:41 -0000 Subject: Just dropped by Message-ID: I haven't been on any of the HPFGUs groups for a long time. Probably not since the end of 2004 maybe. I'm shocked at the names I'm still recognizing on here, who are currently posting. I was never one to post much, but I lurked somewhat on HPFGU until it got too busy-around the time of GOF, then I lurked on here quite a bit. I just looked at my letter from my elf and I first joined back in Nov. 2001- I can't believe how much time has passed. Amy S (who, after reading from Jan 09 to present, remembers why I always feel compelled to add a line in parenthesis after my name even if I'm not in a HPFGU group) :)