Redemption of Anakin and other redemption stories (moved from Main)

[sistermagpie]

> > Carol:
> > > Carol, who suspects that pettiness in the classroom doesn't count in the afterlife, either, or not for much
> > 
> > Magpie:
> > As I said, I was just talking about Snape as a living person. But I don't know why pettiness in the classroom wouldn't count for much. If you spend your life making people unhappy in minor ways that's part of who you are. 
> 
> Carol:
> It wouldn't count for much because, as you said, it's minor. If he'd treated Harry as Marvolo gaunt treated Merope, it would be another matter. The chief person he made unhappy was himself.
> 
> And you're talking about redemption, which is why I brought in the afterlife.

Magpie:
That's probably where the difference lies, since I don't see redemption as having much to do with the afterlife. The fact that Snape continued to make himself miserable and reject connections he could have had, is what makes it not a redemption story for me. He might spend eternity sitting on a happy cloud, or find peace at last, sure. He's not in the final group around Harry (where Lily is) because he died hating on most of them.

Carol: 
> And there's always that last second of life. JKR says that he died hating Harry, but, if so, why care enough to show Harry, whom he thinks is also going to die, all those memories instead of just enough to show that he was Dumbledore's man? And, yes, he wanted to look into Harry's eyes to see Lily, but that also means that at last, instead of just seeing James in Harry, he saw Lily, too.

Magpie:
Because he wanted the truth about him known. I see nothing in that scene that indicates he didn't hate Harry like he always did. But he was dying and Harry had Lily's eyes at least. 

I know that redemption doesn't mean perfect and Snape does atone for the sin he himself thought was unforgivable--that of getting Lily killed. I just tend to think of redemption stories as a lot more than Snape.

Carol:
> Petty sarcasm and point-docking and continued resentment of the boys who humiliated him when he was also a boy are human traits, probably unavoidable in a man as unloved as Snape was.

Magpie:
And a lot of Snape's being unloved was due to his pettiness and continued resentment. It's human, of course. Everybody in the book is human.

Carol:> 
> Obviously, we're never going to agree here, but I think that Harry has it right.

Magpie:
That Snape was brave? Sure. I still think it's bizarre of him to name his child after Snape who hated him, but that's his business. Knowing Harry I tend to imagine that he's long since replaced the Snape he knew with a more palatable version by the time he has kids. But he certainly was brave.

-m