From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 03:36:42 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:36:42 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
Message-ID: <h7ndka+7lii@eGroups.com>

When the Deathly Hallows sign is called "triangular sign" or "triangular rune" in the book, does it mean "shaped like a triangle" or does it mean "consisting of three elements/parts"? How common the second meaning is? Somehow I've never met it before, I only knew the "shape" meaning. Can anyone answer? Thanks :-).


zanooda




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Sep  3 05:02:11 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:02:11 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7ndka+7lii@eGroups.com>
References: <h7ndka+7lii@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <03D626239CDE40958D607AC52D430638@FRODO>

[Zanooda2]:
| When the Deathly Hallows sign is called "triangular sign" or 
| "triangular rune" in the book, does it mean "shaped like a 
| triangle" or does it mean "consisting of three 
| elements/parts"? How common the second meaning is? Somehow 
| I've never met it before, I only knew the "shape" meaning. 

[Lee]:
Triangular shape.  In fact, there was a puzzle on JKR's site which involved
assembling the sign of the Hallows; there was a triangle, a circle and a
line which had to be placed in the correct order.  The triangle stood for
the cloak, the circle for the stone and the line for the wand.  The basic
elemental shape of the sign is triangular, as I understand it.

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 06:40:57 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:40:57 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7ndka+7lii@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7nodp+m521@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:

zanooda:
> When the Deathly Hallows sign is called "triangular sign" or "triangular rune" in the book, does it mean "shaped like a triangle" or does it mean "consisting of three elements/parts"? How common the second meaning is? Somehow I've never met it before, I only knew the "shape" meaning. Can anyone answer? Thanks :-).

Geoff:
I've just done a bit of Googling....

Try the following link.
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Deathly_Hallows

You'll see that it's a vertical line within a circle within a triangle.





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 06:59:03 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:59:03 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7ndka+7lii@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7npfn+li1r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> When the Deathly Hallows sign is called "triangular sign" or "triangular rune" in the book, does it mean "shaped like a triangle" or does it mean "consisting of three elements/parts"? How common the second meaning is? Somehow I've never met it before, I only knew the "shape" meaning. Can anyone answer? Thanks :-).
> 
> 
> zanooda
>

The sign of the Deathly Hallows is actually on one of the book covers. I'm not sure which one, and I think it is only on the UK covers. But I remember we search the internet high and low trying to figure out what that symbol meant. We though it might be a rune, or it might be some old symbol with some historical significant. But many days of discussion and searching of the Internet turned up nothing even close. 

I'm not even sure what we were using as reference photo at the time. But I'm sure the symbol is on one of the books on the spine of the protective cover. 

Steve/bluewizard





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 15:31:56 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:31:56 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <03D626239CDE40958D607AC52D430638@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h7onhc+494v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:

> The basic elemental shape of the sign is triangular, as 
> I understand it.


zanooda:

Oh, yes, I know that it is triangular. I can see now from your responses guys (thanks, BTW :-)) that I didn't pose the question correctly, sorry about that. I meant to ask something like this: "Is such an interpretation (three-part object) possible at all?" I mean, regardless of the shape :-). If, theoretically speaking, the sign was a square, with a circle and a line inside, could it be called "triangular sign" because it consists of three elements? The question is about the meaning of the word and its use, mostly :-).

I came across this word in a translation and I was very surprised, because, as I said, I didn't even know such a meaning existed. Well, I corrected it to "triangular shaped" and sent it back, but it kept bothering me that I was unfamiliar with this meaning of the word while the translator obviously was :-). The examples in the dictionaries are mostly about relationships, something like "mother-father-child triangular relationship". The dictionaries say it can be used for objects as well, but there are no examples.

So I wanted to find out if the translator could be right in principle, if not in this particular case. Note that he used this meaning not in the description of the sign (there it's definitely about the shape), but in an expression "to find out the meaning of the triangular sign" or something like that. I know that the author meant the shape here as well, I just wanted to find out if it's even possible to interpret it another way or not at all. Sorry again that I confused you all earlier :-).





From swartell at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 16:17:28 2009
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7onhc+494v@eGroups.com>
References: <h7onhc+494v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <151188.34601.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

zanooda:
... I can see now from your responses guys (thanks, BTW :-)) that I didn't pose the question correctly, sorry about that. I meant to ask something like this: "Is such an interpretation (three-part object) possible at all?" I mean, regardless of the shape :-). If, theoretically speaking, the sign was a square, with a circle and a line inside, could it be called "triangular sign" because it consists of three elements? The question is about the meaning of the word and its use, mostly :-).

Sue:
No one I know would ever use the word triangular for anything that was not a 3-sided figure (which is another way of saying a 3-angled figure.)  "Tripartite" would work for your theoretical square-circle-line figure, but "triangular" would not. Informally, someone might call it a "triple sign" meaning (again) that it contains 3 parts, but that would not be the usual usage of triple.



      



From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 16:46:43 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:46:43 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <151188.34601.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h7ortj+m870@eGroups.com>

zanooda wrote:
> ... I can see now from your responses guys (thanks, BTW :-)) that I didn't pose the question correctly, sorry about that. I meant to ask something like this: "Is such an interpretation (three-part object) possible at all?" I mean, regardless of the shape :-). If, theoretically speaking, the sign was a square, with a circle and a line inside, could it be called "triangular sign" because it consists of three elements? The question is about the meaning of the word and its use, mostly :-).
> 
> Sue:
> No one I know would ever use the word triangular for anything that was not a 3-sided figure (which is another way of saying a 3-angled figure.)  "Tripartite" would work for your theoretical square-circle-line figure, but "triangular" would not. Informally, someone might call it a "triple sign" meaning (again) that it contains 3 parts, but that would not be the usual usage of triple.
>
Carol adds:
I agree with Sue. "Triangular" means "shaped like a triangle" (and "triangle," of course, literally means "three angle(s)"). The word in this context relates to shape and nothing else--it's literal, not metaphorical like a love triangle. (IIRC, I pictured the triangle inside the circle when I first read the description of the symbol, but it's clearly the other way around.) If it were composed of three elements, the outer one being a rectangle, it would be a rectangular sign, not a triangular one.

As for "triangular rune," that wording reflects Harry's (and the narrator's) ignorance. Harry doesn't know what the sign is or means; he thinks it must be a rune, so that's what the narrator calls it (reflecting Harry's point of view).

Carol, hoping her explanation is clear




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 18:19:17 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:19:17 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <151188.34601.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h7p1b5+60hv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sue Wartell <swartell at ...> wrote:

> No one I know would ever use the word triangular for anything 
> that was not a 3-sided figure 


zanooda:

Thanks, that's a relief :-). But I must say that dictionaries confuse people then. Most of them, in addition to "shaped like a triangle", give definitions like "relating to, or involving three elements", "involving three persons, factions, units, or parts", "comprising three parts or elements; triple" and such. There was also an example of "triangular agreement", iirc. Anyway, if I understand you guys correctly, this is not common use of this word at all. So I was right to correct it, right :-)?




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 18:47:15 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:47:15 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7ortj+m870@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7p2vj+lg2r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> IIRC, I pictured the triangle inside the circle when I first 
> read the description of the symbol, but it's clearly the other 
> way around.


zanooda:

I knew how it looked, because I've seen it on the cover of the Bloomsbury children edition when the cover art was released. I remember we even tried to guess what it was :-). Oh, this reminds me of how we were waiting for the last book, how we speculated about it, how we examined these cover art pictures practically through a magnifying glass, trying to find out what it was all about...  Ah, those were the times...:-).




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 20:20:04 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:20:04 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7p1b5+60hv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7p8dk+3n45@eGroups.com>

zanooda:
> 
> Thanks, that's a relief :-). But I must say that dictionaries confuse people then. Most of them, in addition to "shaped like a triangle", give definitions like "relating to, or involving three elements", "involving three persons, factions, units, or parts", "comprising three parts or elements; triple" and such. There was also an example of "triangular agreement", iirc. Anyway, if I understand you guys correctly, this is not common use of this word at all. So I was right to correct it, right :-)?
>
Carol responds:

Right. Those other meanings are figurative, as in a triangular (three-way) relationship. "Triangular sign" (or "rune") is a straightforward, literal description. The simplest meaning is usually the correct one.

IIRC, JKR is usually rather obvious when she uses metaphors or similes. I can't think of an instance off the top of my head where she's not either punning or exaggerating (feet as large as toboggans, for example).

Regarding dictionaries, you might want to go with the first meaning listed, which is usually the most common.

Carol, hoping she's not being repetitive




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 20:50:28 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:50:28 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7onhc+494v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7pa6k+hevc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc@> wrote:

Lee: 
> > The basic elemental shape of the sign is triangular, as 
> > I understand it.
 
zanooda:
> Oh, yes, I know that it is triangular. I can see now from your responses guys (thanks, BTW :-)) that I didn't pose the question correctly, sorry about that. I meant to ask something like this: "Is such an interpretation (three-part object) possible at all?" I mean, regardless of the shape :-). If, theoretically speaking, the sign was a square, with a circle and a line inside, could it be called "triangular sign" because it consists of three elements? The question is about the meaning of the word and its use, mostly :-).

Geoff:
I've just come back in on this thread and personally, I would have described 
what you were looking at as a "three part figure consisting of......" Perhaps a 
bit long-winded but it would be clear.

This I think would be in line with other suggestions made today.




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 21:11:42 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:11:42 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7pa6k+hevc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7pbee+knes@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:


> This I think would be in line with other suggestions made today.


zanooda:

OK, thanks :-). I don't want to start a new topic for a very small question, so here it goes: "pantomime horse" doesn't have any hidden figurative meanings, does it :-)? It is just that, a costume of a horse, nothing more, right? Just checking :-).






From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep  3 22:03:49 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:03:49 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7pbee+knes@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7peg5+ck5t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:

Geoff:
> > This I think would be in line with other suggestions made today.

zanooda: 
> OK, thanks :-). I don't want to start a new topic for a very small question, so here it goes: "pantomime horse" doesn't have any hidden figurative meanings, does it :-)? It is just that, a costume of a horse, nothing more, right? Just checking :-).

Geoff:
To my knowledge, yes.




From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 04:42:27 2009
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7pbee+knes@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <74973.95439.qm@web63707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Oh no! Pantomime Princess Margaret! VS. Pantomime Goose! Too much Monty Python!
?
?Burma! (I panicked!)
Alex Hogan

--- On Thu, 9/3/09, zanooda2 <zanooda2 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: zanooda2 <zanooda2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: DH sign +pantomime horse
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 4:11 PM


? 



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter@ yahoogroups. com, "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10@ ...> wrote:

> This I think would be in line with other suggestions made today.

zanooda:

OK, thanks :-). I don't want to start a new topic for a very small question, so here it goes: "pantomime horse" doesn't have any hidden figurative meanings, does it :-)? It is just that, a costume of a horse, nothing more, right? Just checking :-).

















      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 06:51:08 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 06:51:08 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7p1b5+60hv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7qdcs+1l4s@eGroups.com>

> zanooda:
> 
But I must say that dictionaries confuse people then. Most of them, in addition to "shaped like a triangle", give definitions like "relating to, or involving three elements", "involving three persons, factions, units, or parts", "comprising three parts or elements; triple" and such. There was also an example of "triangular agreement", iirc. Anyway, if I understand you guys correctly, this is not common use of this word at all. So I was right to correct it, right :-)?

Tonks:
Warning... this answer may cause mass hysteria, riot, even a bar brawl, (ah.. the old days).

Because Rowling has said that her Christian faith shaped the books, I will suggest that there is a deeper symbolism in the DH sign.
In the case of the triangle it represent the trinity, the three parts/persons of God. (Or the three parts of the human being, if you like = body, mind, spirit.) The circle also has the symbolism of completeness. The wand, power. I look at the DH as the cloak = Spirit, Stone = Christ, and the Wand = Creator or source of power. All are part of the whole which is within the triangle.

Let the battle begin.

Tonks_op
Full moon ... back to working on my polyjuice potion...





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 07:24:21 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 07:24:21 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7nodp+m521@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7qfb5+3nhk@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> I've just done a bit of Googling....
> 
> Try the following link.
> http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Deathly_Hallows
> 
> You'll see that it's a vertical line within a circle within a triangle.


Tonks_op
Oh my gosh!! Geoff... I followed the link, the picture I already knew, but ... the names of the three brothers!! I didn't pay that much attention when reading it, or even on the CD. But there is was. Jumped right out. The first brother (who gets the wand) is Antioch. How did we miss this? The people of the "Way", were first called by the name that they are know today, at Antioch. One more clue to what JKR is doing. Why won't anyone listen to me?? Surely that was no accident. (I can hear VT screaming now... "accident!".... just another "accident", means nothing!") 

Tonks_op
Sorry, have to get back to pickling my fluxweed, in the middle of the night.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 20:59:21 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 20:59:21 -0000
Subject: Bit of a scare
Message-ID: <h7rv39+7p0e@eGroups.com>

I got a bit of a scare last night. I happened to be watching a thunderstorm out the living room window, enjoying the downpour after a very disappointing monsoon season, when lightning struck a palm tree about a hundred yards from my apartment! I heard a loud boom and saw a huge red flash as the tree ignited. I called 911 because the tree was close to several apartments and a row of parked cars, and the fire department put out the fire. Fortunately, the flaming debris (burning tree bark) didn't do any damage, probably because the grass it landed on was soaked from the rain, but what a scary spectacle! To top everything off, the electricity went out this morning in the whole complex for an hour and a half. Don't know whether it had anything to do with the storm or not. Everything's fine now, thank goodness.

Carol, hoping for a dull, ordinary Labor Day weekend





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 21:06:43 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:06:43 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7peg5+ck5t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7rvh3+3863@eGroups.com>

zanooda: 
> > OK, thanks :-). I don't want to start a new topic for a very small question, so here it goes: "pantomime horse" doesn't have any hidden figurative meanings, does it :-)? It is just that, a costume of a horse, nothing more, right? Just checking :-).
> 
> Geoff:
> To my knowledge, yes.
>
Carol responds:
I'm not even sure that a costume is necessary unless British usage is different from American. "Pantomime" just means a wordless acting out, as in the game of Charades--in this case, pretending to be a horse. The context would help, but it's probably a simple comparison or simile.

Carol, who's sure there's no deeper meaning in this instance




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 01:45:39 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:45:39 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7rvh3+3863@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7sfs3+5g5e@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> "Pantomime" just means a wordless acting out, as in the 
> game of Charades--in this case, pretending to be a horse. 


zanooda:

But I thought it was "a pantomime" in the British sense, meaning a Christmas entertainment for children, a play based on fairy tales and such. It includes jokes and songs, so it's definitely not wordless :-). "A pantomime horse" is a costume of a horse used in such a play - you know, one actor plays the front part of the horse and the second one - the rear part, and they both share the same costume :-). "Pantomime horse" is an expression, I thought. Am I right about this, Geoff?

If you are interested in the context, it's when Harry and Hermione Apparate to Godric's Hollow, and the book says that Harry didn't want to enter the village "like a pantomime horse". I thought it was because Hermione offered go behind him under the Cloak and cover the tracks, and this made him think about this costume - you know, he is in the front, she is in the back and they are both covered by the Cloak :-). I'm not sure now that I understand it correctly...




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 01:51:40 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:51:40 -0000
Subject: Bit of a scare
In-Reply-To: <h7rv39+7p0e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7sg7c+430u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> I got a bit of a scare last night.


zanooda: 

This must have been very scary, Carol. You keep thinking "what if it had struck my house" and things like that. Sometimes nature makes you feel so helpless. I still can't forget last year's Ike :-).





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 06:16:26 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:16:26 -0000
Subject: Bit of a scare
In-Reply-To: <h7rv39+7p0e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7svnq+4a86@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> I got a bit of a scare last night. I happened to be watching a thunderstorm out the living room window, enjoying the downpour after a very disappointing monsoon season, when lightning struck a palm tree about a hundred yards from my apartment! I heard a loud boom and saw a huge red flash as the tree ignited. >

Tonks:
You know you have been reading/watching/listening to too much Harry Potter when the first thought that comes to you when reading this is "what kind of a spell makes a red light?".

Glad that everyone is alright. It was good that you were there and able to call the fire department.

I was in a car once, many years ago that was hit by lightening as we were going down the road. Thank God I wasn't driving. I just remember a big flash of white light and I was screaming "I can't see, I can't see". Somehow my husband kept the car on the road and calmed me down. I don't think he could see either. I know some will say "well THAT explains what is wrong with you!". lol.

I know a woman who was trying to "cast off a storm", whatever that means, and lightening hit her neighbors tree spliting it in half and it fell on the casting person's house. That was a spell gone bad for sure. And she is a Christian, so I don't know what she thought she was doing. 

Tonks_op






From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  5 06:19:12 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:19:12 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7qfb5+3nhk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7svt0+t9sa@eGroups.com>

Tonks_OP wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39909>:

<< the names of the three brothers!! I didn't pay that much attention when reading it <snip> The first brother (who gets the wand) is Antioch. How did we miss this? The people of the "Way", were first called by the name that they are know today, at Antioch. >>

Apparently you don't pay adequate attention to my posts on main list. Carol and I got into the names of the three brothers. I'm pretty sure that the brother who got the Wand was Cadmus, because 'he was a combative man' and the original Cadmus sowed the dragon's teeth, which instantly grew into armed men, who immediately fought each other (some say, because Cadmus tossed stone at them and each blamed his neighbor for throwing it at him) until only five were left alive. Very combative.

Meanwhile, Carol has often mentioned that Ignotus (which means a person who is unknown, as in not noticed) is a very appropriate name for the brother hiding under the Invisibility Cloak.

So I was not particularly able to come up with a good reason for the name 'Antioch' to go with the Resurrection Stone. I don't recall anyone being raised from the dead at Antioch...

My own particular obsession is my observation that Herself chose names where the shapes of the initial letters would add up to the shape of the Symbol. Ignotus - I - the line indicating the wand. Antioch - A - the triangle indicating the cloak. Cadmus - C - the circle indicating the stone.

That annoyed me because the name/initial/shape doesn't go with the object of that brother. I often invite the rest of the list to help me think up better names. Orpheus, O, for the circle indicating the stone and for the brother who wanted to bring back his dead beloved.

I for the wand. All I could think of was Invictus. It means 'unconquered', which is what the combative brother requested, and it is the title of a bragging poem. I love you listies so much that I took a break right here to look up baby name lists for names that start with I, and <http://www.behindthename.com/name/ildefonso> says Ildefenso means 'battle ready'.

The cloak can be A or V. Aidoneus, a title of Hades, means invisible or unseen. It is past my bedtime and I'm too tired to read lists of names that start with A and V.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 06:27:10 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:27:10 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
Message-ID: <h7t0bu+lat8@eGroups.com>

I know there was a long discussion about this a year ago. There is a section in our local grocery with things from different countries. I bought some stuff and looks at some other stuff that I remember hearing the name here. So what do I do with Lemon Curd? And how do you serve Treacle? It is in a can. And what is some strange thing that sounded like some sort of veg. spread. I didn't get any. Can't remember the name.. like Marmilte or something. What is that and why would you use it? It doesn't help that I don't cook. I hate cooking but thought I might be healthier if I forced myself to learn to do it well. Starting with something in a can, ya..  well one step at a time. Ugh... where IS that house-elf!! 

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 06:37:14 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:37:14 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7svt0+t9sa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7t0uq+msrt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at ...> wrote:
> 
> Apparently you don't pay adequate attention to my posts on main list. Carol and I got into the names of the three brothers. 

Tonks:
oops. Actually I haven't been reading the main list since the 7th book came out.

CatLady:
>I'm pretty sure that the brother who got the Wand was Cadmus, 
> because 'he was a combative man' (Snip> 

Tonks:
I just took the list from the webpage Geoff had sent. I guess they got the wrong person for the wand. Yours sounds right. Course I could look in the book, huh?

CatLady: 
> So I was not particularly able to come up with a good reason for the name 'Antioch' to go with the Resurrection Stone. I don't recall anyone being raised from the dead at Antioch...
> 

Tonks:
Resurrection stone would apply to Jesus. Antioch is where the followers of Jesus were first called "Christians". 

Tonks_op




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 06:50:35 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:50:35 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7sfs3+5g5e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7t1nr+d7rp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> 
> > "Pantomime" just means a wordless acting out, as in the 
> > game of Charades--in this case, pretending to be a horse. 
 
zanooda:
> But I thought it was "a pantomime" in the British sense, meaning a Christmas entertainment for children, a play based on fairy tales and such. It includes jokes and songs, so it's definitely not wordless :-). 

Geoff:
That's a good definition. Some stories are also traditional tales or based on 
historic figures. Commonly produced in the UK are "Cinderella", "Aladdin", 
"Jack and the Beanstalk", "Red Riding Hood" and, in the last category I 
mentioned, "Dick Whittington".

We occasionally will talk about someone making a pantomime of 
something meaning that they are not really taking things seriously. 
The idea of a charade is not commonly mentioned in modern culture.

zanooda:
> "A pantomime horse" is a costume of a horse used in such a play - you know, one actor plays the front part of the horse and the second one - the rear part, and they both share the same costume :-). "Pantomime horse" is an expression, I thought. Am I right about this, Geoff?
 
> If you are interested in the context, it's when Harry and Hermione Apparate to Godric's Hollow, and the book says that Harry didn't want to enter the village "like a pantomime horse". I thought it was because Hermione offered go behind him under the Cloak and cover the tracks, and this made him think about this costume - you know, he is in the front, she is in the back and they are both covered by the Cloak :-). I'm not sure now that I understand it correctly...

Geoff:
I'm glad you gave the context. I've been scratching my head wondering 
where the heck this question came from.
:-)

I believe that Harry's thought here was that they would be blundering 
along getting in each other's way. There is a phrase about being "the back 
end of a pantomime horse". A pantomime horse costume is usually rather 
garishly coloured and worn by two people where the person at the back has 
to be guided by the leader and also has to avoid treading on the leader's feet. 
Hence it is a rather clumsy way of getting around. they are usually employed 
in a pantomime as one form of comic activity.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 11:13:50 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:13:50 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h7t0bu+lat8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7th5e+bu12@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

Tonks_op
> I know there was a long discussion about this a year ago. There is a section in our local grocery with things from different countries. I bought some stuff and looks at some other stuff that I remember hearing the name here. So what do I do with Lemon Curd? And how do you serve Treacle? It is in a can. And what is some strange thing that sounded like some sort of veg. spread. I didn't get any. Can't remember the name.. like Marmilte or something. What is that and why would you use it? It doesn't help that I don't cook. I hate cooking but thought I might be healthier if I forced myself to learn to do it well. Starting with something in a can, ya..  well one step at a time. Ugh... where IS that house-elf!! 

Geoff:
Ah, now you're into the realm of spreads and things....

Lemon Curd is not a popular as it once was but it is a spread, like jam or 
marmalade. made from, surprise, lemons. I remember my mother making 
it not long after the war when families made a lot more things a home than 
nowadays.

Treacle is, I believe, known as molasses in the US. In the home, we would 
use it as an ingredient for such delicacies as treacle sponge pudding or 
treacle toffee.

Any self-respecting Brit will tell you what Marmite is; it is a British icon. It 
is a yeast extract used as a spread - or sometimes by folk as a drink. It's a 
great favourite with children. Our 2-year old granddaughter loves Marmite 
"soldiers" which are made by spreading it on a slice of bread or toast and 
cutting the slice into strips. I sometimes will have a couple of slices of toast 
and Marmite for supper. It's a very recognisable item on the shelves - a 
brown, glass, almost-spherical jar with a bright yellow top and an oval bright 
yellow label.

PS Tonks, keep an eye on your mail inbox.....




From phil at pcsgames.net  Sat Sep  5 14:52:27 2009
From: phil at pcsgames.net (Phil Vlasak)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:52:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h7th5e+bu12@eGroups.com>
References: <h7th5e+bu12@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <16D5B30CAFD6476CAA4F36F184AF6BEE@Phil>

Hi Nicol,
It wouldn't be fare to use the same puzzle as all the book readers can look up the solution instead of figuring it out.
Once you know the potion in the smallest bottle will take you forward, it is too easy.

I thought of this that I call the Rainbow bottle puzzle
  7 bottles of poison each a different color
  1 red, 2 orange, 3 yellow, 4 blue, 5 indigo, 6 violet, 7 black.
  Only one mixture of the bottles will cancel out the poison in each.
  You mix half of two bottles to make green,then mix half of two bottles to make purple and add that to the green.
  If you drink the mixture you will go forward.
  answer,  
  spoiler\
  space
  half of 4 plus half of 5 equals green
  half of 1 plus half of 5 equals purple
  mix those to get through the fire.

  This uses color theory as the answer and could be discovered easy using google.
  What do you think?




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: geoff_bannister 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 7:13 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited


    --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

  Tonks_op
  > I know there was a long discussion about this a year ago. There is a section in our local grocery with things from different countries. I bought some stuff and looks at some other stuff that I remember hearing the name here. So what do I do with Lemon Curd? And how do you serve Treacle? It is in a can. And what is some strange thing that sounded like some sort of veg. spread. I didn't get any. Can't remember the name.. like Marmilte or something. What is that and why would you use it? It doesn't help that I don't cook. I hate cooking but thought I might be healthier if I forced myself to learn to do it well. Starting with something in a can, ya.. well one step at a time. Ugh... where IS that house-elf!! 

  Geoff:
  Ah, now you're into the realm of spreads and things....

  Lemon Curd is not a popular as it once was but it is a spread, like jam or 
  marmalade. made from, surprise, lemons. I remember my mother making 
  it not long after the war when families made a lot more things a home than 
  nowadays.

  Treacle is, I believe, known as molasses in the US. In the home, we would 
  use it as an ingredient for such delicacies as treacle sponge pudding or 
  treacle toffee.

  Any self-respecting Brit will tell you what Marmite is; it is a British icon. It 
  is a yeast extract used as a spread - or sometimes by folk as a drink. It's a 
  great favourite with children. Our 2-year old granddaughter loves Marmite 
  "soldiers" which are made by spreading it on a slice of bread or toast and 
  cutting the slice into strips. I sometimes will have a couple of slices of toast 
  and Marmite for supper. It's a very recognisable item on the shelves - a 
  brown, glass, almost-spherical jar with a bright yellow top and an oval bright 
  yellow label.

  PS Tonks, keep an eye on your mail inbox.....



  


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 17:00:44 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:00:44 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7t1nr+d7rp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7u5fs+t874@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> A pantomime horse costume is usually rather garishly coloured 
> and worn by two people where the person at the back has 
> to be guided by the leader and also has to avoid treading 
> on the leader's feet. Hence it is a rather clumsy way of 
> getting around. they are usually employed 
> in a pantomime as one form of comic activity.



Oh yeah, I didn't think of that :-)! That's because the "rear end" actor can't see much, can he? I wonder if he has some holes in the costume to see at least under his feet :-).


zanooda, wondering if there are "pantomime cows"...





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 17:24:16 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:24:16 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h7th5e+bu12@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7u6s0+2165@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Lemon Curd is not a popular as it once was but it is a spread, like jam or 
> marmalade. Snip> 
> Treacle is, I believe, known as molasses in the US. In the home, we would 
> use it as an ingredient for such delicacies as treacle sponge pudding or 
> treacle toffee.

Tonks:

OK.. a spead on bread. I will try it. The Treacle is in a can and does say pudding. Do I just open and eat or warm it up or put something on it. How would you serve it? 

And thanks for the picture of the Marmite. Yes, that is it. It sounds a bit... well, forgive me, odd. Yeast and some kind of vegs? Is it any good? Is there a lot of yeast? Might trigger a migraine. I might pass on that one. Let you know how I like the rest. Thanks.

Geoff:
> Any self-respecting Brit will tell you what Marmite is; it is a British icon. It 
> is a yeast extract used as a spread - or sometimes by folk as a drink. 

Tonks:
As a drink?? Ah... huh???

Tonks_op




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  5 17:58:46 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:58:46 -0000
Subject: pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7u5fs+t874@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7u8sm+q6hk@eGroups.com>

Zanooda wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39921>:
  
> Oh yeah, I didn't think of that :-)! That's because the "rear end" 
> actor can't see much, can he? I wonder if he has some holes in the
> costume to see at least under his feet :-).
 
> zanooda, wondering if there are "pantomime cows"...

The "rear end of a pantomime horse" (or "of a horse costume") is a popular phrase because "horse's ass" is a popular insult. I've never heard anyone says "cow's ass" except in its literal meaning.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  5 18:04:58 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 18:04:58 -0000
Subject: The Peverell Brothers's names (was: DH sign question)
In-Reply-To: <h7t0uq+msrt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7u98a+arjq@eGroups.com>

Tonks_OP wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39917>:

> Resurrection stone would apply to Jesus. Antioch is where the
> followers of Jesus were first called "Christians". 

Cadmus (Elder Wand) Peverell and Antioch (Resurrection Stone) Peverell were both Bad Examples. The one was into unprovoked violence as a quest for power. The other's offense was either that he wasted his life by pining for a lost love instead of 'moving on' or that he troubled a dead person by forcing her to return to this world (necromancy). It seems strange to me that an author would wave the Christian flag by naming a Bad Example after Christ or Christians.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 19:31:57 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:31:57 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h7u6s0+2165@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h7uebd+72c9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote: 

Tonks: 
> OK.. a spead on bread. I will try it. The Treacle is in a can and does say pudding. Do I just open and eat or warm it up or put something on it. How would you serve it? 

Geoff:
Ah, if it says treacle *pudding*, then it is a prepared pudding. Are 
there instructions on the can? You would heat it, probably in a microwave. 

Serve it with custard or cream (single or whipped).




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  5 19:47:47 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:47:47 -0000
Subject: Dementors/Baby on doorstep discussion: missing day/Mrs FIgg/Snape;s soul
Message-ID: <h7uf93+pmm5@eGroups.com>

Zanooda wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187657>:

<< I thought ministry workers don't have to go to Azkaban if they need a Dementor. In GoF Fudge just summoned one to Hogwarts (the one that Kissed Crouch Jr.) when he thought he was in danger, why couldn't Umbridge do the same :-)? I don't know if Fudge summoned it from Azkaban or some other place, but either way he didn't have to go anywhere to get that Dementor, the Dementor came to him :-). >>

I expect that not all MoM workers have the same privileges or powers that the Minister (Fudge) had, but, yes, if any MoM worker besides the Minister had a ministerial power, it would be Fudge's Umbridge.

I believe that in GoF, Fudge was being escorted by Dementors as bodyguards to protect him and somehow not being affected by their Demention. DD required him to leave the Dementors waiting at the Hogwarts front gate, so Fudge summoned the Dementor from less than a mile away, not from Azkaban. Someone could check canon and see if I am wrong.

Powerbabe/Trianarose summarized PS/SS Chapter 1 in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187670> and asked discussion questions which got responses including the following:

JLyon asked in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187680>:

<< Why was McG there unless Bumbles told her? >>

And Zanooda abswered in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187684>:

<< According to McGonagall, it was Hagrid who told her that DD will come to the Privet Drive: "'Hagrid's late. I suppose it was he who told you I'd be here, by the way?' - 'Yes'". She was waiting not for hagrid, but for DD. She probably knew that Hagrid was also supposed to come, but she didn't even know why. She also only knew the address, not that Harry's relatives lived there, and she didn't seem to know when exactly to expect DD. This is all a little confusing to me, I must say :-). >>

It seems Hagrid hadn't told her AT ALL "when exactly to expect DD". I assume she 'heard' the commotion, went to DD's office to ask whether it was true that You Know Who was dead, found Hagrid leaving the office but DD not there, and then asked Hagrid if he knew where to find DD, and Hagrid replied: "I'm going to meet him in front of Lily's sister's house. Lily and James Potter were killed so Dumbledore asked me to take baby Harry to her sister. I'm just now off to get him."  Making it sound as if they would meet in 2 hours rather than 20 hours.

If he had told her that he was going to meet up with DD in about 23 hours, or at 2AM or 'tomorrow night, well I guess it's today by this time', she wouldn't have had to wait there all day long.

Hagrid must have told her that James and Lily were dead, baby Harry had survived, and somehow baby Harry's survival had killed Voldemort, because she asked DD for confirmation of all those things. How else would she have heard them? I can't imagine how he would tell her that without telling her that he was taking Harry to his aunt and uncle. 

I suppose McGonagall asking DD why he was here, and protesting 'you can't mean these people!' was part of her trying to persuade DD not to leave Harry with people whom she had observed all day to be unsuitable. Step one: pretend that the thing you want not to be true isn't true. Step two: pretend to be surprised as well as horrified when told the horrifying truth. 

Geoff wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187683>:

<< Seeing that Hagrid has just brought Harry straight in from Godric's Hollow, Madam Pomfrey hasn't had an opportunity to be anywhere near Harry. >>

As shown by the above discussion, it seems that Hagrid had not just brought Harry straight from Godric's Hollow. The famous 'missing day' was between the time Hagrid got Harry at Godric's Hollow and the time Hagrid left Harry at the Dursley house. Since Rowling's text mentions that McGonagall waited all day and skipped all the feasts and celebrations, it appears to me that Rowling knew there was a day-long gap between the two events. Unless she figured that DD figured it would take Hagrid that long to travel from Godric's Hollow to Little Whinging, she must have had some idea where they spent the day, and also where DD spent the day. Unless she figured that McG figured it would take Hagrid that long, it would not have been unreasonable, time-wise, for her to have McG ask Hagrid whether Madam Pomfrey had checked the baby. 

As it turned out not to be a big plot mystery where they had spent the missing day, Rowling could have told the readers by having McG ask Hagrid where they had been all day, and Hagrid could have answered, even if the answer was that it took him that long to fly that distance even on the flying motorcycle, and he could even throw in that DD was at the Ministry of Magic helping direct which leading Death Eaters to round up, or whatever.

Geoff wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187690>:

<< The need for Harry to go to the Dursleys wasn't something that was planned. It came out of the blue. Mrs.Figg, as a Squib, couldn't be installed in a suburban English road at such short notice. There wouldn't be a property available in the time frame. And you could hardly do a "Grimmauld Place" and insert a magical house into the scenery. >>

That suggests that DD had found out about Lily's Muggle relatives and placed Mrs Figg nearby to keep an eye on them long ago, including that she had told him what yucky people they were. If he hadn't been thinking of a need to place Lily's orphaned baby with someone other than the guardian chosen by his parents (who might have been killed in the same battle), why was he interested in Lily's Muggle relatives? Could the Death Eaters have used them to attack Lily, perhaps via the 'blood' shared by Lily and Petunia?

Carol wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187695>:

<< We know that he never killed anyone before DD. That's clear from his fear of splitting his soul and DD's question, "How many people have you watched die, Severus?" as opposed to "How many people have you killed?" >>

We do NOT *know* that he never killed anyone before DD. I read his question less as fear for his soul than as resentment that DD didn't care about his soul nearly as much as about Draco's. Maybe DD could have answered truthfully, but less persuasively, "oh, your ragged old soul is already torn to tatters, and young Malfoy's is still untorn."

I'm more inclined to believe that a torn soul, if not put in a Horcrux, can be mended, by repentance and trying to behave better, so Snape's concern could have been that his soul had already been torn and laboriously mended and maybe tearing it again in the same place couldn't be mended again.

And DD asked Ss 'How many men and women have you watched die?' instead of 'How many have you killed?' because the context was DD telling SS to tell HP information that would make HP die. DD was not telling SS to kill HP, so 'how many people have you killed' is not relevant. DD is telling SS that DD plans for HP to die, so 'watched die' is relevant.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Sep  5 20:52:06 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:52:06 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <16D5B30CAFD6476CAA4F36F184AF6BEE@Phil>
Message-ID: <h7uj1m+dusg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Phil Vlasak" <phil at ...> wrote:

Phil Vlasak:
> Hi Nicol,
> It wouldn't be fare to use the same puzzle as all the book readers can look up the solution instead of figuring it out.
> Once you know the potion in the smallest bottle will take you forward, it is too easy.
> 
> I thought of this that I call the Rainbow bottle puzzle
>   7 bottles of poison each a different color
>   1 red, 2 orange, 3 yellow, 4 blue, 5 indigo, 6 violet, 7 black.
>   Only one mixture of the bottles will cancel out the poison in each.
>   You mix half of two bottles to make green,then mix half of two bottles to make purple and add that to the green.
>   If you drink the mixture you will go forward.
>   answer,  
>   spoiler\
>   space
>   half of 4 plus half of 5 equals green
>   half of 1 plus half of 5 equals purple
>   mix those to get through the fire.
> 
>   This uses color theory as the answer and could be discovered easy using google.
>   What do you think?

Geoff:
Perhaps I have accidentally entered an alternate universe...

What has the above to do with Lemon Curd, treacle and Marmite?

Answers to be written on A4 paper, using one side only and brought 
to Professor McGonagall's room by 09:00 tomorrow.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep  6 16:16:15 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:16:15 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h7th5e+bu12@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h80n8f+f8nq@eGroups.com>

 
> Geoff:
 
> Any self-respecting Brit will tell you what Marmite is; it is a British icon. It 
> is a yeast extract used as a spread - or sometimes by folk as a drink. 

Potioncat:
Is marmite anything like vegemite? 

I was once a part of an international community at school in California. The Australian couple served vegemite at one of our international food tasting events. I think I was the only American who actually liked it. I was able to buy it in our supermarket--but I've never seen it anywhere else.

I don't know how I would describe the taste, but certainly, it was not a sweet spread. 

Potioncat




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep  6 17:42:01 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 6 Sep 2009 17:42:01 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/6/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1252258921.530.74056.m1@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
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1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
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From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 17:44:08 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:44:08 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h80n8f+f8nq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h80sd8+op51@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
  
Geoff:  
> > Any self-respecting Brit will tell you what Marmite is; it is a British 
> > icon. It  is a yeast extract used as a spread - or sometimes by folk 
> > as a drink. 

Potioncat:
> Is marmite anything like vegemite? 
 
> I was once a part of an international community at school in California. The Australian couple served vegemite at one of our international food tasting events. I think I was the only American who actually liked it. I was able to buy it in our supermarket--but I've never seen it anywhere else.
> 
> I don't know how I would describe the taste, but certainly, it was not a sweet spread. 

Geoff;
It certainly isn't sweet. Being based on yeast, it has what we would call a 
"hot" taste.

For your information, the nutritional data from a Marmite jar reads as follows:

Yeast extract.
Ingredients: Yeast extract, Salt, Vegetable Extract, Niacin, Thiamin,
Spice Extracts (Contains Celery), Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12

Draw your own conclusions.

It's one of those love it or hare it foods. You might get some amusing 
views about Marmite if you visit:
www.marmite.co.uk








From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Sep  6 18:03:43 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:03:43 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h80sd8+op51@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h80thv+5f3c@eGroups.com>

 
> Geoff;
> It certainly isn't sweet. Being based on yeast, it has what we would call a 
> "hot" taste.



Potioncat:
Hot indeed! Geoff, you've got some explaining to do. 

I went to Google hoping I could locate Marmite here. Not so good at coming up with keywords I was starting to type "marmite locations"and as I typed options appeared in the drop down box.

My fingers froze mid-stroke as one option was "marmite love potions."

So, Geoff, what do you have to say for yourself...




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep  6 19:57:02 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 19:57:02 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h80thv+5f3c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8146e+vh0i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Geoff;
> > It certainly isn't sweet. Being based on yeast, it has what we would call a 
> > "hot" taste.
> 
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> Hot indeed! Geoff, you've got some explaining to do. 
> 
> I went to Google hoping I could locate Marmite here. Not so good at coming up with keywords I was starting to type "marmite locations"and as I typed options appeared in the drop down box.
> 
> My fingers froze mid-stroke as one option was "marmite love potions."
> 
> So, Geoff, what do you have to say for yourself...

Geoff:
Nothing. There is nothing questionable, unsavoury, rude or 
fattening about what I have commented on - except that 
Marmite could be called savoury.

Refer back to my last post and I gave a URL

www.marmite.co.uk 

I've since discovered that

www.marmite.com is also valid.

I think you must be using an AU version of Google designed for aliens. :-)

Go to Google. Just type "marmite" in, don't worry about drop-down
 options, hit "Search" and you'll get a whole screenful of links including 
an article in Wikipedia.

Take a long deep breath, go and make some hot chocolate and 
Marmite soldiers. Good therapy.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 06:18:36 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:18:36 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h7uebd+72c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h828js+7o9i@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> Ah, if it says treacle *pudding*, then it is a prepared pudding. Are there instructions on the can? You would heat it, probably in a microwave. 
> 
> Serve it with custard or cream (single or whipped).


Tonks:
Whipped cream I understand. Ah... is there a translator in the house... I am having a flashback... wasn't there a discussion before about what "custard" is? And what does 'single' mean?

Geoff's advise to Potioncat:
Take a long deep breath, go and make some hot chocolate and
Marmite soldiers.

Tonks:
From the sound of Marmite, why, I ask, would a child eat them? And WITH hot chocolate??  Something sounds not quite right there. Maybe I should try it. But I don't understand why the main ingredient in anything would be yeast? And veggies? Uck.  But then I do like the stuff from the Middle East that is ground brown olives, on rye bread. If I get past the idea that everything on bread should be sweet, I might be OK. But yeast??? 

Custard is a milky pudding, not like the treacle type of 'pudding'. What is custard over the pond?

Maybe we should all have a party one night and bring something from each of our areas... I really like that chess pie they have down south. Can't think of what is exclusive to my area. But then I can't cook either...  Seems like that is how I started this conversation.

Tonks_op
recovering from a bad night at a smoke filled casino. Cough, cough.. Not going there again.





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Sep  7 13:01:09 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:01:09 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h828js+7o9i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8306l+e1p9@eGroups.com>

 
> Tonks:
> Whipped cream I understand. Ah... is there a translator in the house... I am having a flashback... wasn't there a discussion before about what "custard" is? And what does 'single' mean?

Potioncat:
Much to my surprise I found some British foods at my ordinary Giant supermarket--sort of tucked in with assorted other international items that I had never noticed before. So I have tasted Marmite. (Won't be bothering with the love potions.)

Marmite reminds me of beef bouillon in flavor. It's very intense. As Geoff "hot" is one description, but not hot as in a spice. But I warn you, it looks like thick chocolate syrup and you have to put that out of your mind before you taste it. I'm surprised that children like it, but then, we Americans start babies on sugar almost before they're born.


> 
> Tonks:
But I don't understand why the main ingredient in anything would be yeast? And veggies? Uck.  But then I do like the stuff from the Middle East that is ground brown olives, on rye bread. If I get past the idea that everything on bread should be sweet, I might be OK. But yeast??? 

Potioncat:
Looks like it would be a good source of Vitamin B. If I think of the non sweet spreads in the US, I can only come up with butter, peanut butter or some cheeses. And that's pretty much different forms of fat.

>Tonks: 
> Custard is a milky pudding, not like the treacle type of 'pudding'. What is custard over the pond?

Potionat:
My mom used to make custard she said that she used to make it for pediatric patients when she was a nurse. Back in the days when it was dangerous to be underweight, custard was considered health food. Very few of our (US) children are in danger of being underweight today.  It's made with eggs and milk, and it's like pudding. (I'm assuming here that her pudding was the type her British parents made.) 
Along that line, I saw custard powder in a can. I assume that's like our pudding mix? 

I also saw Spotted Dick in a can, by Heinz I think. I was wondering how good it is? Has anyon tried it? I ask because later in my shopping I found frozen "Southern style" biscuits. Well, I've yet to find any pre-packaged biscuit that comes close to the ones my aunt used to make. 





From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Mon Sep  7 13:15:38 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:15:38 -0300
Subject: TO THE MOD - Re:Weekly Chat, 9/6/2009, 1:00 pm
Message-ID: <4AA5077A.10608@rescueddoggies.com>

Any chance of setting this to give a reminder the day BEFORE?  I know 
you can set it to give two reminders
Anyone on "digest" gets this reminder on MONDAY morning

Brian




Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal>

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 6, 2009
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 
<http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574>

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep  7 18:57:14 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:57:14 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h828js+7o9i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h83l2a+7j04@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
> > Ah, if it says treacle *pudding*, then it is a prepared pudding. Are there instructions on the can? You would heat it, probably in a microwave. 

> > Serve it with custard or cream (single or whipped).
 
Tonks:
> Whipped cream I understand. Ah... is there a translator in the house... I am having a flashback... wasn't there a discussion before about what "custard" is? And what does 'single' mean?

Geoff:
If I make be technical for a moment....

Before milk is homogenised (if it is), the butterfat separates out at the 
top and, to make cream, that part of the milk is skimmed off to produce 
various grades of cream dependent on the percentage of butterfat 
included.

In the UK, the most common are:
Clotted cream - 55% This is a very thick cream with a paste-like consistency 
best known for use in West Country cream teas.

Double cream - 48% Used for whipping. Used with puddings, for cake toppings 
etc.

Whipping cream - 35% Used for whipping as the name suggests but is a lighter 
textured cream after being whipped. Uses similar to double cream.

Single cream - 18% A lighter liquid which cannot be whipped. Used for pouring 
over puddings and in drinks such as coffee etc.

<end of lecture on cream>

Geoff's advice to Potioncat:
> Take a long deep breath, go and make some hot chocolate and
> Marmite soldiers.
 
Tonks:
> From the sound of Marmite, why, I ask, would a child eat them? And WITH hot chocolate??  Something sounds not quite right there. 

Geoff:
Kid absolutely love it (or hate it). My 2 year-old granddaughter thrives 
on the stuff. 

I'm just odd. I have all sorts of combinations of light meals and drinks. 
Late every evening, I have a Cup-a-Soup (a dried packet soup reconstituted 
with boiling water) and a bowl of salad vegetables.

Tonks:
> Custard is a milky pudding, not like the treacle type of 'pudding'. What is custard over the pond?

Geoff:
Custard is made to pour over a pudding. It is basically milk with sugar 
added to taste brought to the boil and thickened using cornflour which 
also imparts a bright yellow colour to it. Thickness can be varied to taste. 
For use as a trifle topping, it is made very thick, poured over the other 
ingredients and then allowed to set.

In general, if you are ordering a pudding/sweet/dessert (any of these words 
are acceptable in UK English) you are often asked whether you would 
like custard, cream or ice cream with it - where that is appropriate to what 
you have ordered.  I invariably go for the cream. My wife and daughter always 
grumble because the male side of our family are all greyhounds and tend not 
to go pear-shaped....





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 04:24:21 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:24:21 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
Message-ID: <h84m9l+ipi1@eGroups.com>

One of the signs on the gate of Xeno Lovegood's house says "Pick Your Own Mistletoe". What the word "pick" means here? Is it like "pluck, gather" or is it like "select, choose" :-)? Thanks,


zanooda




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep  8 04:59:14 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:59:14 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h84m9l+ipi1@eGroups.com>
References: <h84m9l+ipi1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <0D85D59EC74F4395B03CF42543BCF18D@FRODO>

[Zanooda]:
| One of the signs on the gate of Xeno Lovegood's house says 
| "Pick Your Own Mistletoe". What the word "pick" means here? 
| Is it like "pluck, gather" or is it like "select, choose" :-)? Thanks,

[Lee]:
It could be both, first selecting and then plucking or gathering, especialy
if one believes as Xeno does that mistletoe has nargles. <Grin>  Probably
JKR means the plucking / gathering.

I know when we went with a friend of ours to bring in a Christmas tree one
year, he had a bunch of pines on his property.  So our "picking" was,
indeed, selecting and then cutting it down.  And it was cold out there on
that flatbed! :-)

Go for the plucking; that's probably the best rendering.

Peace,

Lee

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 05:47:05 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 05:47:05 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h84m9l+ipi1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h84r4p+jqqg@eGroups.com>

> zanooda:
> One of the signs on the gate of Xeno Lovegood's house says "Pick Your Own Mistletoe". What the word "pick" means here? Is it like "pluck, gather" or is it like "select, choose" :-)? 

Kemper now:
I don't remember that passage, but when I think of 'gate' I almost always think of an archway.  So, if there's an archway, then I'm guessing that Xeno or Luna or Luna's mom hang/hung mistletoe from it.  You don't write if there was mistletoe hanging or not and maybe it wasn't specified in the book, but my thought if it wasn't specified then it must not have been there.  And if it wasn't there, then somebody must have stolen it. 

So 'Pick Your Own Mistletoe' is a Lovegood euphemism for 'Get your own gd mistletoe you cheap bastard'.

Kemper




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 06:39:24 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:39:24 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h84m9l+ipi1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h84u6s+mbm6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:

zanooda:
> One of the signs on the gate of Xeno Lovegood's house says "Pick Your Own Mistletoe". What the word "pick" means here? Is it like "pluck, gather" or is it like "select, choose" :-)? Thanks,

Geoff:
Bearing in mind that this is written by an English author, it's the first.

It is very common for certain growers around the UK to open their land 
to visitors to choose their own produce to save the owner the trouble of 
doing it themselves.

You will often see signs along the roadside such as "Pick Your Own 
Strawberries" or "PYO apples" or even plain "PYO". It tends to be fruit 
more often than not but you can go and visit vegetable growers as well.

It's usually offered by smaller farmers and growers, the bigger producers 
being tied to supermarkets etc.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 07:08:51 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:08:51 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h84m9l+ipi1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h84vu3+rssv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> One of the signs on the gate of Xeno Lovegood's house says "Pick Your Own Mistletoe". What the word "pick" means here? Is it like "pluck, gather" or is it like "select, choose" :-)? Thanks,
> 
> 
> zanooda
>

Think of it as 'harvest'. 'Harvest your own Mistletoe', or apples, or sweet corn, or strawberries, or whatever. 

When you pick corn, you are harvesting the fruit of the corn plant. When you pick apples, you hare harvesting the fruit of the apple tree.

'Pick your own...' is also very popular in the USA. Pick your own sweet corn, means you walk out into the field and gather it yourself right off the corn stalk. Same with apples or strawberries, it means the consumer harvests the produce themselves directly from the field or orchard, and as a result they get a lower price than if the farmer has to do the harvesting. 

Steve/bboyminn





From blue_dragon_53 at yahoo.com.au  Tue Sep  8 10:01:00 2009
From: blue_dragon_53 at yahoo.com.au (Blue Dragon)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 03:01:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <544289.25999.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Potioncat:
Is marmite anything like vegemite? 

I was once a part of an international community at school in California. The Australian couple served vegemite at one of our international food tasting events. I think I was the only American who actually liked it. I was able to buy it in our supermarket- -but I've never seen it anywhere else.

I don't know how I would describe the taste, but certainly, it was not a sweet spread. 

Potioncat

....................................

I had to jump in and respond here!

Yes, Marmite is similar to Vegemite.? Being an Australian, and having eaten Vegemite all of my life, I have to say I prefer our local version.? The secret of eating this spread for?those unfamiliar with it is to spread it very, very thinly.? It has a very "sharp"?flavour - and it's rather?salty.

I was a very fussy eater as a child, and I've had relatives remind me of the occasion that I ate a Vegemite sandwich in preference to all the goodies on the table on Christmas Day!? It seems that I'll never live that one down!

I love it on toast - and not as?thinly spread as suggested for newcomers. :)
?Blue Dragon 


      __________________________________________________________________________________
Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From richard at sc.lug.org.uk  Tue Sep  8 13:59:49 2009
From: richard at sc.lug.org.uk (richard_smedley)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:59:49 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8306l+e1p9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h85o0l+8090@eGroups.com>

Potioncat said:
> Looks like it would be a good source of Vitamin B. If I think of
> the non sweet spreads in the US, I can only come up with butter,
> peanut butter or some cheeses. And that's pretty much different
> forms of fat.

Nothing wrong with different forms of fat ;-)
My favourite spreads are:

1. Marmite & Peanut Butter
   Both together, great on toast with a nice cuppa in the morning, or last thing at night.

   Incidentally Marmite is one of a dozen different forms of Yeast Extract available in the UK. Community Yeast Extract is my favourite. Vegemite is Australian (and virtually a national dish over there). UK branches of Walmart sell an own-brand version.

Peanut butter has to be crunchy. Smooth peanut butter (like thin-cut marmalade) is an idea (like alcahol-free wine) that doesn't bare thinking about. :-/

2. Guacomole
   Avocado pears, mashed with minced onion, olive oil, white wine vinegar, salt and pepper. Many spicy variants can be made with chilli, etc.

3. Hoummus
   Cooked chickpeas, mashed with olive oil, lemon juice, tahini, garlic, salt. You can use sprouted chick peas instead of cooked, which gives a fresher, different sort of spread :-)

4. Olive tapenade
   Simply olives mashed with a little oil, vinegar & seasoning.

5. Aubergine 
   Roast an aubergine (eggplant) until soft. mash & mix with olive oil & huge quantities of garlic :-)

My children have all loved Marmite (and other yeast extracts) virtually since birth.
Apart from a little home-made jam (it's plum season at the moment) and honey, I don't really like sweet spreads.

 - Richard
   (Looking at list after long time away as thinking of reading the books again)







From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 14:52:49 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:52:49 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h84r4p+jqqg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h85r41+obav@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kempermentor" <kempermentor at ...> wrote:

> I don't remember that passage, but when I think of 'gate' 
> I almost always think of an archway. So, if there's an archway, 
> then I'm guessing that Xeno or Luna or Luna's mom hang/hung 
> mistletoe from it.


zanooda:

I don't know for sure, but I thought it was a small gate, not the one that goes overhead :-). Anyway, there was no mistletoe hanging from the gate, but a couple of trees next to the house did have mistletoe growing on them.


> kempermentor:
  
> So 'Pick Your Own Mistletoe' is a Lovegood euphemism for 
> 'Get your own gd mistletoe you cheap bastard'.


zanooda:

That's the point, I don't understand if it means, as you say, "go get your own, don't touch mine" or on the contrary it means an invitation to take his, kind of "you are welcome to take my mistletoe, but pluck it yourself" :-).




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 15:25:35 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:25:35 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h84u6s+mbm6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h85t1f+au53@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:

> It is very common for certain growers around the UK to open 
> their land to visitors to choose their own produce to save 
> owner the trouble of doing it themselves.


zanooda:

I didn't know that :-). I can see from Steve's post that this is common to the US as well, but I've never even heard of it :-). So what, you mean Xeno is offering his mistletoe cheap or maybe even for free on the condition that people will gather it themselves? 

What about the second sign then, "Keep Off the Dirigible Plums" :-)? I thought that if this one advises to "keep off", maybe the one about the mistletoe was about the same thing. But if you say it is an invitation, then the whole thing must mean "by all means take the mistletoe, just don't touch my precious Dirigible Plums :-)! 

Of course, Xeno needs the Dirigible Plums for his thinking process - "to enhance the ability to accept the extraordinary", LOL.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep  8 16:06:03 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:06:03 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h85t1f+au53@eGroups.com>
References: <h84u6s+mbm6@eGroups.com> <h85t1f+au53@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9E2631D5C4DC4A36AD4B2CC168A76B38@FRODO>

[zanooda]:
| I didn't know that :-). I can see from Steve's post that this 
| is common to the US as well, but I've never even heard of it 
| :-).

[Lee]:
No?  Well it's sure common here in NJ.  Now that Autumn is approaching, the
Apple farms are going to be wide open for people to come and pick their own
apples and the farm charges for bagging them.  The owners also sell apple
cider, usually, and have other activities to make things interesting.  Also
there's pumpkin picking.  In the summer there are blueberry growers who let
folk come in and pick freely.  Oh, there's a lot of that here.

[Zanooda]:
| So what, you mean Xeno is offering his mistletoe cheap 
| or maybe even for free on the condition that people will 
| gather it themselves? 

[Lee]:
I would say that's the jist of the thing.

[Zanooda]:
| What about the second sign then, "Keep Off the Dirigible 
| Plums" :-)? I thought that if this one advises to "keep off", 
| maybe the one about the mistletoe was about the same thing. 
| But if you say it is an invitation, then the whole thing must 
| mean "by all means take the mistletoe, just don't touch my 
| precious Dirigible Plums :-)! 

[Lee]:
Correct.  I'd say that's how it works.

Going back to the berry picking, one must remember that the pickers often
eat while they pick, so not all of the pickings get taken home.  In fact, I
remember bringing back an extremely small bag because I was so busy eating.
:-)  That, of course, goes with the whole pick-your-own experience here. :-)

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 20:13:14 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:13:14 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h85t1f+au53@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h86dsq+mc3g@eGroups.com>

---  "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:
> 
> > It is very common for certain growers around the UK to open 
> > their land to visitors to choose their own produce to save 
> > owner the trouble of doing it themselves.
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> ... I can see from Steve's post that this is common to the US as well, but I've never even heard of it :-). So ... Xeno is offering his mistletoe cheap or maybe even for free on the condition that people will gather it themselves? 
> 
> What about the second sign then, "Keep Off the Dirigible Plums" :-)? ..., then the whole thing must mean "by all means take the mistletoe, just don't touch my precious Dirigible Plums :-)! 
> 
> Of course, Xeno needs the Dirigible Plums for his thinking process - "to enhance the ability to accept the extraordinary", LOL.
>

bboyminn:

I haven't been to any famous British gardens, but I suspect that some of the better ones have thousands of visitors a year. Now it is nice for people to walk through and observe, but you wouldn't want to have thousands of feet tramping through your lawns or flowerbeds. I suspect quite a bit of money is expended on keeping the lawns manicured to near carpet perfection ... so stick to the path and 'keep off the grass'. 

Despite the Dirigible Plums being plums, I didn't get the sense that they were a tree or bush, but rather a very low growing plant. As such, some people might mistake them for a weeds and feel free to walk through what they perceive as tall grass or weeds, thereby destroying the plants that Xeno has struggle so hard to cultivate. To preserve his plants and his hard work, please don't go walking among the Dirigible plants - 'Keep off the Dirigible Plums'. 

Mistletoe on the other hand typically grows in trees, and shrubs or bushes, and is therefore less likely to be stepped on. So, no real need to tell people to 'keep off the mistletoe'. 

Steve/bboyminn







From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 20:39:09 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:39:09 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7pbee+knes@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h86fdd+d1gn@eGroups.com>

--- "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10@> wrote:
> 
> 
> > This I think would be in line with other suggestions made today.
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> OK, thanks :-). I don't want to start a new topic for a very small question, so here it goes: "pantomime horse" doesn't have any hidden figurative meanings, does it :-)? It is just that, a costume of a horse, nothing more, right? Just checking :-).
>

bboyminn:

Off on a side note. While both stem from the tradition of 'Pantomime', 'Panto' and 'Mime' have each gone their distinct directions. 

Pantomime is actually musical comedy theater. The French school of 'mime' broke off into the white-face street performers.

Though it caught me by surprise, it is the British Panto that sticks closest to the original history of Pantomime, and indeed the French 'Mime' that broke with tradition. 

I suspect the 'mime' tradition occurred by accident. Some original artist somewhere got the idea that he could preform a theater piece and tell a complete story and convey emotions using nothing but body language and movement accompanied by music. This was just another way of telling a story. Likely people liked it and more performer tried it. Eventually, the 'Mime' performance became a style all its own.

I suspect we are all more familiar with Mimes because they broke with the standard tradition of Pantomime, though not really by much. We don't recognize or associate the classic British tradition of Pantomime as being that distinct or notable because it is not. It is just classic comedy musical theater for kids, with a bit of sexual innuendo for the adults. 

Dating back to ancient Greece, Pantomime has never been silent. It was often preformed poetry accompanied by music, usually flute. (see Wikipedia for history and details)

What we would now call Mime, is just another unique way to tell a story, and is a subset of the larger and greater Pantomime tradition.

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 21:03:16 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:03:16 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h85o0l+8090@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h86gqk+aim8@eGroups.com>

--- "richard_smedley" <richard at ...> wrote:
>
> Potioncat said:
> > Looks like it would be a good source of Vitamin B. If I think of
> > the non sweet spreads in the US, ...
> 
> Nothing wrong with different forms of fat ;-)
> My favourite spreads are:
> 
> 1. Marmite & Peanut Butter
>    ...
> 
>    ...
> 
> Peanut butter has to be crunchy. Smooth peanut butter ... doesn't bare thinking about. :-/
> 
> 2. Guacomole
>    ...
> 
> 3. Hoummus
>    ...
> 
> 4. Olive tapenade
>    ...
> 
> 5. Aubergine 
>    ...
> 
> My children have all loved Marmite ... virtually since birth.
> ...
>
>  - Richard
>    

bboyminn:

Would this be a good point to interject 'Nutella'? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutella

As most would know Nutella is Chocolate Hazelnut butter, similar to peanut butter. Yet, the single brand Nutella sells more product worldwide than all the brands of peanut butter combined. Though, not so much in the USA.

Fair warning, if you are a chocolate lover, stay away from Nutella. On occasion, I buy a jar thinking how wonderful it will be to have an occasional buttered toast and Nutella for a snack. 

Of course, not one drop ever touches toast. Typically, if I buy a some, I sit with a spoon eating it straight from the jar. One large jar typically will not make it thorough the weekend. 

Rather than pig out on Nutella, I'll stick with an occasional Hersey's bar. 

Steve/bboyminn





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 21:12:47 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:12:47 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h86dsq+mc3g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h86hcf+8262@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> Despite the Dirigible Plums being plums, I didn't get the 
> sense that they were a tree or bush, but rather a very low 
> growing plant. 


zanooda:

Well, the book does say that Xeno's Dirigible Plums grow on a bush, but it doesn't specify what size or height the bush is... :-). The Plums themselves are much smaller than regular plums though, so maybe it is a rather small bush, I don't know :-).




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep  8 21:41:16 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:41:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h86gqk+aim8@eGroups.com>
References: <h85o0l+8090@eGroups.com> <h86gqk+aim8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <25EDC6E9D73B4CF99EFEEC69F091D2AE@FRODO>

[bboyminn]:
| Fair warning, if you are a chocolate lover, stay away from 
| Nutella. On occasion, I buy a jar thinking how wonderful it 
| will be to have an occasional buttered toast and Nutella for a snack. 
| 
| Of course, not one drop ever touches toast. Typically, if I 
| buy a some, I sit with a spoon eating it straight from the 
| jar. One large jar typically will not make it thorough the weekend. 

[Lee]:
Ah--you, too?  It is great on waffles, also....that is, if it gets to the
waffles.  I sometimes pull a spoonful of Nutella, half the spoonful goes to
the waffle, half to me.

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Sep  8 23:23:41 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:23:41 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h85o0l+8090@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h86p1t+lvs4@eGroups.com>

, "richard_smedley" <richard at ...> wrote:

> 
>  - Richard
>    (Looking at list after long time away as thinking of reading the books again)
>


Potioncat:
Oh do! We've just started the chapter discussions all over again at the main site. Come and join us.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 19:56:19 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:56:19 -0000
Subject: DH sign question
In-Reply-To: <h7t0uq+msrt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h89193+egm5@eGroups.com>

CatLady wrote:
> >I'm pretty sure that the brother who got the Wand was Cadmus, 
> > because 'he was a combative man' (Snip> 
> 
> Tonks:
> I just took the list from the webpage Geoff had sent. I guess they got the wrong person for the wand. Yours sounds right. Course I could look in the book, huh? <snip>

Carol responds:
Logically, Cadmus *ought* to be the combative brother who received/created the Elder Wand, but I'm sure that the webpage is right, and that brother is Antiochus while the inventor of the Resurrection Stone (Voldemort's ancestor) was Cadmus. I just can't remember where to find that information in the book.

Carol, who has a chest cold and doesn't feel like hunting up misplaced quotes 




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 20:02:59 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:02:59 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h7t1nr+d7rp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h891lj+g84q@eGroups.com>

Geoff wrote:
> I believe that Harry's thought here was that they would be blundering  along getting in each other's way. There is a phrase about being "the back end of a pantomime horse". A pantomime horse costume is usually rather garishly coloured and worn by two people where the person at the back has to be guided by the leader and also has to avoid treading on the leader's feet. Hence it is a rather clumsy way of getting around. they are usually employed in a pantomime as one form of comic activity.

Carol:
That makes sense. Here I was thinking in terms of the imaginary horses ridden by King Arthur and his Knights in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." Appropriately or coincidentally, I just saw that film for the first time a few nights ago, about a day after I posted my first response, so imagine my surprise at seeing ^my* idea of a pantomime horse throughout that (silly) film.

Carol, who has been hounded to see the film for years and was expecting it to be much funnier

BTW, Yahoo keeps bumping me to the sign-in page for some reason so I hope this message posts





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 22:08:26 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:08:26 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h85r41+obav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8990q+jiau@eGroups.com>

zanooda:
> 
> I don't know for sure, but I thought it was a small gate, not the one that goes overhead :-). Anyway, there was no mistletoe hanging from the gate, but a couple of trees next to the house did have mistletoe growing on them.

> > kempermentor:
>   
> > So 'Pick Your Own Mistletoe' is a Lovegood euphemism for 'Get your own gd mistletoe you cheap bastard'.
> 
> 
zanooda:
> 
> That's the point, I don't understand if it means, as you say, "go get your own, don't touch mine" or on the contrary it means an invitation to take his, kind of "you are welcome to take my mistletoe, but pluck it yourself" :-).
>
Carol responds:
I'm sure Xeno means feel free to pick (pluck) pluck your own mistletoe. He also says (on a different sign on the same gate--BTW, I'm not picturing an archway but a door in a fence) something like, "Hands off the Dirigible Plums," so if he doesn't want people touching something, he's quite clear about it. Essentially, you can pick as much mistletoe as you want (the stuff has Nargles, or so he thinks), but he wants you to keep away from the Dirigible Plums, which he evidently has some use for or even considers valuable. For all we know, he enjoys eating along with Gulping Plimpies and Gurdyroot soup. Maybe the plums are the "pudding" (dessert).

Carol, who thinks that dinner with the Lovegoods is probably the Wizarding equivalent of tofu and bean sprouts





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 22:19:55 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:19:55 -0000
Subject: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h8990q+jiau@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h899mb+pe7i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Maybe the plums are the "pudding" (dessert).


zanooda:

LOL! But no, in the Lovegood family the Dirigible Plums are supposed to be not eaten, but worn somewhere close to the head (instead of earrings, for example), which Luna often does. According to Xeno, they give the wearer the ability to accept everything that is out of the ordinary... . I hope you feel better soon, Carol :-).





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 22:23:05 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:23:05 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h86fdd+d1gn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h899s9+gh6m@eGroups.com>

bboyminn:
<snip>
> Dating back to ancient Greece, Pantomime has never been silent. It was often preformed poetry accompanied by music, usually flute. (see Wikipedia for history and details)


Carol responds:

I believe that pantomime was roman rather than Greek, if it matters. The pantomime itself was a dance accompanied with music or narrative. Since the dancer himself didn't speak, I would disagree. The pantomime was silent even though the accompaniment wasn't. 

The word can and does sometimes apply, at least in the U.S., to a story told in mime, through movement and facial expression only. As I said, Charades as we played it when I was a kid was done entirely in pantomime.

Carol, still thinking about the pantomime horses (no horse costume involved) that she encountered in Monty Python





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 06:09:45 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:09:45 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h83l2a+7j04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8a579+jh0t@eGroups.com>

> Geoff:
> If I make be technical for a moment....
> 
SNIPPED very interesting information about cream> 
> <end of lecture on cream>

Tonks:

Thank you for the lession. I hope I can remember it the next time the exams come round.

As to Marmite. I took a friend grocery shopping tonight and told her about our discussions here. She is a world traveler, has been almost everywhere at least once. Not afraid of anything and open to all sorts of foods I would never consider. At the mention of the word "Marmite", she let out a blood curdling scream. So I guess that is my answer for "should I try it?" Did you hear her Geoff? I am sure that screem was heard all the way to your place.


bboyminn said:

> Would this be a good point to interject 'Nutella'?

> As most would know Nutella is Chocolate Hazelnut butter, similar to peanut butter. Yet, the single brand Nutella sells more product   > worldwide than all the brands of peanut butter combined. Though, >not so much in the USA.

Tonks:
I discovered Nutella last year. Once you get over the idea that you are going to put chocolate on bread, it is very good. I use it on cinnamon swirl bread. Very, very good!!

Tonight I got some more English food to try. Some sort of cookies. Also here is another question for Geoff. I did not get the ones that looked best. They were called "Digestives". I thought that they might really be some sort of medicine, like a laxative or something. (I say this because when I was a child my mother gave me a laxative that looked like and tasted like a small piece of chocolate.) Is "Digestives" just an odd name for a cookie or does it DO something to your digestive system when you eat it. I would like to try some if it is just normal food.

We have an International section in our Meijer's store. I figured out that "scotch" is really marmalade. And I love the stuff from Greece, the brown olive spread.

Tonks_op









From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 06:39:09 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:39:09 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8a579+jh0t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8a6ud+c3jq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

Tonks: 
 
> As to Marmite. I took a friend grocery shopping tonight and told her about our discussions here. She is a world traveler, has been almost everywhere at least once. Not afraid of anything and open to all sorts of foods I would never consider. At the mention of the word "Marmite", she let out a blood curdling scream. 

Geoff:
I did point out in a recent post the kids either love it or hate it....

That continues into adulthood. I don't go over the moon about it all 
the time but I have spells when I will be into Marmite for a few days.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 06:48:18 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:48:18 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h899s9+gh6m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8a7fi+d819@eGroups.com>

---  "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> bboyminn:
> <snip>
> > Dating back to ancient Greece, Pantomime has never been silent. It was often preformed poetry accompanied by music, usually flute. (see Wikipedia for history and details)
> 
> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> I believe that pantomime was Roman rather than Greek, if it matters. The pantomime itself was a dance accompanied with music or narrative. Since the dancer himself didn't speak, I would disagree. The pantomime was silent even though the accompaniment wasn't. 
> 
> The word can and does sometimes apply, at least in the U.S., to a story told in mime, through movement and facial expression only. As I said, Charades as we played it when I was a kid was done entirely in pantomime.
> 
> Carol, ...

bboyminn:

Quoting Wikipedia, which may not necessarily be the most accurate -

"A pantomimos in Greece was originally a group who 'imitated all' (panto- - all, mimos - mimic) accompanied by sung narrative and instrumental music, often played on the flute. The word later came to be applied to the performance itself.[2] The pantomime was a popular form of entertainment in ancient Greece and, later, Rome."

Likely it did originate in Greece though, since the Greek Empire predates the Roman.

However, you do have a good point, it was the narrator who spoke or sung, not necessarily the actors and dancers. Likely, as you indicate they remained silent. I confess, I had never thought about that. 

Still modern theatrical 'Mime' is usually just movement and music, no narration, though I confess it has been a long long time since I've seen true 'Mime' on the stage. 

I suspect in the context, when Harry says or thinks 'pantomime horse', he really just means a horse stage costume, which in turn means, as others have said, that doing so would be awkward.

Since they would be invisible, 'like a pantomime horse' can't mean appearance, but simply the awkwardness and a bit of silliness in traveling in such an inconvenient way. 

I think he made a reasonable argument when he convinced Hermione that there would be no need of the invisibility cloak, since they wouldn't look like themselves any way.

Just a few random thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Sep 10 08:00:48 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:00:48 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8a579+jh0t@eGroups.com>
References: <h83l2a+7j04@eGroups.com> <h8a579+jh0t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <DF9E9F38A5C442548947F1366B3D7395@FRODO>

[Tonks]:
| I did not 
| get the ones that looked best. They were called "Digestives". 
| I thought that they might really be some sort of medicine, 
| like a laxative or something. (I say this because when I was 
| a child my mother gave me a laxative that looked like and 
| tasted like a small piece of chocolate.)

[Lee]:
Ah--Yes, X-Lax!  I could tell you horrible stories about tricks played on
people with that stuff. <Huge Evil Grin, Maniacal Laughter!>

[Tonks]:
| Is "Digestives" just 
| an odd name for a cookie or does it DO something to your 
| digestive system when you eat it. I would like to try some if 
| it is just normal food.

[Lee]:
I found a whole bunch of mail I saved and a lot of it was food discussions.
I believe a "Digestive" is a cookie (or as the Britts would say, a
"Biscuit," made with oats or a more fibrous material than just plain white
flour.

Cheers,

Lee
(Still laughing about X-Lax!)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 19:40:43 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:40:43 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <DF9E9F38A5C442548947F1366B3D7395@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h8bknr+ce99@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:
 
[Lee]:
> Ah--Yes, X-Lax!  I could tell you horrible stories about tricks played on
> people with that stuff. <Huge Evil Grin, Maniacal Laughter!>

Geoff:
(Blushing slightly)
When I was in my mid-teens, I learnt a little bit of improper doggerel 
about the stuff which modesty prevents me from repeating in my years 
of decorum.
:-|
  
[Lee]:
> I found a whole bunch of mail I saved and a lot of it was food discussions.
> I believe a "Digestive" is a cookie (or as the Britts would say, a
> "Biscuit," made with oats or a more fibrous material than just plain white
> flour.

Geoff:
Yes, it is more fibrous and has a crumbly consistency. I'm not very fond 
of them except in the half-coated chocolate variety. They also usually 
tend to have a slightly larger diameter than most other circular biscuits.

The *Brits* would definitely say "biscuit".




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 20:19:02 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:19:02 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h8a7fi+d819@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8bmvm+gvjl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

> Since they would be invisible, 'like a pantomime horse' can't 
> mean appearance, but simply the awkwardness and a bit of 
> silliness in traveling in such an inconvenient way. 


zanooda:

Right, and also, I think that emotionally this moment was very important to Harry. He had waited for so long to be able to finally come back to Godric's Hollow, his birthplace. I guess he just wanted to enter the village in a more dignified manner, even if no one could see them. He didn't want the fact that Hermione is stuck to his back to ruin the importance of the moment for him :-).




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Sep 10 20:42:39 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:42:39 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8bknr+ce99@eGroups.com>
References: <DF9E9F38A5C442548947F1366B3D7395@FRODO> <h8bknr+ce99@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <74B9164261234BC18C517D03427B494E@FRODO>

| [Lee]:
| > Ah--Yes, X-Lax!  I could tell you horrible stories about 
| tricks played on
| > people with that stuff. <Huge Evil Grin, Maniacal Laughter!>
| 
| Geoff:
| (Blushing slightly)
| When I was in my mid-teens, I learnt a little bit of improper 
| doggerel 
| about the stuff which modesty prevents me from repeating in my years 
| of decorum.

[Lee]:
Oh, do tell!  Years of decorum, Suuuuure. :-)

Hmm--too bad no one thought to give X-Lax to the DEs; melt it over a cake
like a frosting and watch them have a most awful time.  <More wicked
laughter.>

Cheers,

Lee :-)




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 10 21:09:33 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:09:33 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <74B9164261234BC18C517D03427B494E@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h8bpud+ovl7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:

Geoff:
> | (Blushing slightly)
> | When I was in my mid-teens, I learnt a little bit of improper 
> | doggerel 
> | about the stuff which modesty prevents me from repeating in my years 
> | of decorum.
 
[Lee]:
> Oh, do tell!  Years of decorum, Suuuuure. :-)

Geoff:
No way, Jose.
:-)




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 00:32:00 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:32:00 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8bknr+ce99@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8c5q0+nps7@eGroups.com>

---  "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc@> wrote:
>  
...
>   
> [Lee]:
> > I found a whole bunch of mail I saved and a lot of it was 
> > food discussions. I believe a "Digestive" is a cookie (or 
> > as the Britts would say, a "Biscuit," made with oats or 
> > a more fibrous material than just plain white
> > flour.
> 
> Geoff:
> Yes, it is more fibrous and has a crumbly consistency. I'm 
> not very fond of them except in the half-coated chocolate 
> variety. They also usually tend to have a slightly larger 
> diameter than most other circular biscuits.
> 
> The *Brits* would definitely say "biscuit".
>


bboyminn:

Not that I actually know, but isn't a 'Digestive' a little
more like a cracker? Not sure what the Brits call a soup
cracker. A 'Digestive' is a little drier and less sweet,
though likely with a better texture than a common soup
cracker.

Whereas, a cookie or biscuit, is a little more sweet. With
something of a courser texture.  

How are 'Digestives' normally eaten. Are the topped with 
food like sliced meat and cheeze, as a cracker might be
eaten. Or, are they eaten straight out of the package, or
perhaps dunked in milk, tea, or coffee?

Did you know that 25 million people in the UK have been 
injured while eating a cookie/biscuit? Now that they've
outlawed Boy Scouts from having pen knives, I suspect 
cookies won't be far behind. 

Steve/bluewizard




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 06:07:16 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:07:16 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8c5q0+nps7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8cpek+k3dn@eGroups.com>

> > Geoff:
> > Yes, it is more fibrous and has a crumbly consistency. I'm 
> > not very fond of them except in the half-coated chocolate 
> > variety. They also usually tend to have a slightly larger 
> > diameter than most other circular biscuits.
> > 
> > The *Brits* would definitely say "biscuit".


Tonks:
Yes, these are chocolate covered. Maybe I will try some next time. This time I got a candy bar called "Yorkie". Very good. BUT.. there was a big sign on it that said "NOT FOR GIRLS", and an outline of a female with skirt and a circle with a line through it, meaning barred from use by GIRLS. What is this, Geoff!!!? Are the candy dealers in the UK discriminating against women?? These should NOT be sold in the US... we should give them a $500.00 fine and 5 years in Askaban for discrimination!! It was good chocolate, but I was a bit dizzy after.. maybe it has more theobromine than most chocolate. Migraine problem. But it doesn't keep me from eating chocolate, one of the main food groups. 


> bboyminn:
> 
> Did you know that 25 million people in the UK have been 
> injured while eating a cookie/biscuit? Now that they've
> outlawed Boy Scouts from having pen knives, I suspect 
> cookies won't be far behind. 

Tonks:
Huh?? How can that be??  

I also got some cookies that tasted much better than I thought they would. Had little currents in them. I don't even know what a current is. Very nice, too bad I was driving at the time and didn't have any hot tea. Ah... maybe that is how they have accidents, out driving while eating them perhaps?

Tonks_op




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 06:49:21 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:49:21 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8cpek+k3dn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8crth+lpsv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

Tonks:
> Yes, these are chocolate covered. Maybe I will try some next time. This time I got a candy bar called "Yorkie". Very good. BUT.. there was a big sign on it that said "NOT FOR GIRLS", and an outline of a female with skirt and a circle with a line through it, meaning barred from use by GIRLS. What is this, Geoff!!!? 

Geoff:
Not a candy bay. A straight forward very chunky, solid chocolate bar. 
Very scrumptious.

Th sign is an ongoing jokey advertising campaign. Yorkies were 
originally marketed years ago as being for "real" men - lorry drivers, 
weightlifters etc. - who could cope with these big, hefty bars.

The joke has continued and is part of Brit culture. If they really meant 
it, the sex discrimination people would have been down on their necks 
before you could say "sherbet lemon".
:-)

bboyminn:
> Not that I actually know, but isn't a 'Digestive' a little
> more like a cracker? 

Geoff:
Nope. they are a true blue British biscuit. Nothing like a 
cracker.

bboyminn:
> How are 'Digestives' normally eaten. Are the topped with
> food like sliced meat and cheeze, as a cracker might be
> eaten. Or, are they eaten straight out of the package, or
>perhaps dunked in milk, tea, or coffee?

Geoff:
As a biscuit. Straight out of the packet. You can dunk them, 
like any biscuit, if that floats your boat.
:-)




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 07:31:12 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (lizzie_snape)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:31:12 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8a579+jh0t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8cuc0+rbaf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

> 
> We have an International section in our Meijer's store. I figured out that "scotch" is really marmalade. And I love the stuff from Greece, the brown olive spread.
> 
> Tonks_op
>

I shop at Meijer's too!  That's where I bought my only-tasted-once jar of Marmite.  I think I'll try the Marmite and crunchy pb combination.


Lizzie




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Sep 11 12:09:51 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (geoff_bannister)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:09:51 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8a579+jh0t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8demf+6goo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
 
Tonks:

> We have an International section in our Meijer's store. I figured out that "scotch" is really marmalade. 

Geoff:
Scotch to us is whisky.

Why does your store call it by that name? Strange.




From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Fri Sep 11 13:23:52 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:23:52 -0300
Subject: English food revisited
Message-ID: <4AAA4F68.6010108@rescueddoggies.com>

 > bboyminn:

 > Not that I actually know, but isn't a 'Digestive' a little
more like a cracker? Not sure what the Brits call a soup
cracker. A 'Digestive' is a little drier and less sweet,
though likely with a better texture than a common soup
cracker.

DEFINITELY NOT.
A Digestive is thicker and if anything, probably sweeter than other 
plain biscuits, with a slightly malty(?) flavour, certainly not dry.
I'm in Argentina and a friend who is visiting the UK has a "English 
shopping list" of things I miss which she is going to try to bring back 
for me.
The half-coated with chocolate variety "McVities Milk Chocolate 
Digestive" is high on that list, as the king of British Bikkies.
Also on the list - real HP sauce (the nearest I can get here is the 
American A1 which is expensive, similar in taste to HP, but even their 
thick variety is watery by comparison), and salt and vinegar, prawn 
cocktail and bovril crisps (US = chips) .  (The crisps here come in very 
few flavours and the flavours aren't very strong either.)  Oh, and 
Scampi fries (I think that's what they're called - it's been a long time.)
Funny the things you miss when you're thousands of miles away from where 
you were born and brought up.

Brian




From wendydarling6402 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 16:26:34 2009
From: wendydarling6402 at yahoo.com (wendydarling6402)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:26:34 -0000
Subject: halloween costumes
Message-ID: <h8dtnq+nm73@eGroups.com>

Hey everybody
I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. My thirteen year old daughter has decided that for halloween she wants to be Arnold, yes the pigmy puff. I have absolutly no clue how to make her a costume for this. So I was wondering if any one had any ideas, I know there is no place I could buy one and my sewing is pretty rough. I do knit but I wouldnt even know where to start and I doubt I would have enough time to knit something. So that's it thanks for any tips.


Wendy




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sat Sep 12 00:07:07 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:07:07 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <h8dtnq+nm73@eGroups.com>
References: <h8dtnq+nm73@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <48B351A0056E4957AA18990BA834D59E@FRODO>

[WendyDarling]:
| Hey everybody
| I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. My thirteen 
| year old daughter has decided that for halloween she wants to 
| be Arnold, yes the pigmy puff. I have absolutly no clue how 
| to make her a costume for this. So I was wondering if any one 
| had any ideas, I know there is no place I could buy one and 
| my sewing is pretty rough. I do knit but I wouldnt even know 
| where to start and I doubt I would have enough time to knit 
| something. So that's it thanks for any tips.

[Lee]:
Ouch! That's about as rough as wanting to dress like a Tribble!  I'd say
you'll probably need to lay your hands on fake fur, but that can be a hot
costume depending on where you are.

In a pinch, I'd say try to find a custard-colored (that's in the general
description of Puffskeins) long dress that's too large for your daughter,
strap some pillow stuff in to make her look--uh--ball-shaped, and perhaps
contrive some fuzzy-furry mask of same-color stuff with a long, thin, pink
tongue.

I hope some of the more creative beings on the list can come up with
something more tangible. <Grin>

Cheers,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Sep 12 03:24:28 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 03:24:28 -0000
Subject: halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <h8dtnq+nm73@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8f49c+kctm@eGroups.com>

 "wendydarling6402" wrote:
>
> Hey everybody
> I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. My thirteen year old daughter has decided that for halloween she wants to be Arnold, yes the pigmy puff. 

Potioncat:
Have you suggested to her that it's unlikely any of the adults handing out treats are likely to know what she is? Could you prompt her toward being Ginny with Arnold on her shoulder?

Wendyarling...as in Peter Pan's Wendy?

Potioncat




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 03:59:17 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 03:59:17 -0000
Subject: halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <48B351A0056E4957AA18990BA834D59E@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h8f6al+ea0t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:


> I'd say try to find a custard-colored (that's in the general
> description of Puffskeins) long dress 


zanooda:

Arnold is purple though :-).




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 07:26:12 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:26:12 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8demf+6goo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8fiek+mqfp@eGroups.com>

>  
> Tonks:
> 
> > We have an International section in our Meijer's store. I figured out that "scotch" is really marmalade. 
> 
> Geoff:
> Scotch to us is whisky.
> 
> Why does your store call it by that name? Strange.
>


Tonks:
The store doesn't call it that. This is what it says on the label. And it is not the name of the makers. It is what they call what is in it. It is really orange marmalade.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 07:36:08 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:36:08 -0000
Subject: halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <h8f49c+kctm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8fj18+rmae@eGroups.com>

> 
> Potioncat:
> Have you suggested to her that it's unlikely any of the adults handing out treats are likely to know what she is? Could you prompt her toward being Ginny with Arnold on her shoulder?
> 

Tonks:
Excellent idea! I second it.

If all else fails, have her wear tights and then you only have to make something that would be like a fat tomato only purple, and fuzzy. It would fit like a one piece bathing suit, with elastic around the legs.
I think there are tomato costumes that you can use for a pattern. Good luck. Lets hope she goes with Potioncat's idea.

Tonks_op




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 12 21:38:08 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:38:08 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h899s9+gh6m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8h4c0+7vl3@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/39957>:

<< still thinking about the pantomime horses (no horse costume involved) that she encountered in Monty Python >>

To my surprise, and while looking for something else, I found that 'pantomime horse' is an entry in Wikipedia:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime_horse>





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 01:26:31 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 01:26:31 -0000
Subject: DH sign +pantomime horse
In-Reply-To: <h8h4c0+7vl3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8hho7+35km@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at ...> wrote:

> To my surprise, and while looking for something else, 
> I found that 'pantomime horse' is an entry in Wikipedia:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime_horse>


zanooda;

That's where I found out what "pantomime horse" was... :-). Before DH I had no idea, so I had to look it up because I didn't understand the sentence :-). And here is a good picture of a pantomime horse:

http://www.abfabdenmead.co.uk/Hire_Terms/File0021.jpg






From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 13 17:41:58 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 13 Sep 2009 17:41:58 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/13/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1252863718.656.31177.m7@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/cal

Weekly Chat
Sunday September 13, 2009
1:00 pm - 2:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes:
Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK




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From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Mon Sep 14 13:56:00 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:56:00 -0300
Subject: TO THE MODERATOR AGAIN    Re:Weekly Chat, 9/13/2009, 1:00 pm
Message-ID: <4AAE4B70.6080608@rescueddoggies.com>

PLEASE program this reminder to be sent 24 hours beforehand as well - 
Yahoo will send two reminders.
Those of us using Digest don't get this reminder until it's too late.

Thanks

Brian



From heidi8 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 14:38:18 2009
From: heidi8 at gmail.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:38:18 -0400
Subject: Infinitus 2010 Orlando - Pricing Update
Message-ID: <5913e6f80909140738w6c54038bgc781b1c11e95ac07@mail.gmail.com>

Tomorrow, Team Infinitus will be listening in - and then on-site - as
Universal Studios Orlando makes some exciting announcements about the
Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Follow the news on our Twitter-feed
at http://www.twitter.com/HPEF - and don't forget that we've extended
the early-bird rate for INFINITUS 2010 registrations ($165) through
11:59 PM Eastern time on September 17, in case you want to wait to
make your reservation after the announcements have been made, and
before the price goes up to $185.

Please note that your registration will include two meals and access
to our Ball as well as all Formal Programming except for the Keynote
Luncheons (which can be purchased at a later date). Information about
park tickets will be available soon.

The website and link to registrations is at
http://www.infinitus2010.org - Infinitus will take place in at
Universal Studios Orlando at the Royal Pacific Hotel from July 15 -
18, 2010, and is the seventh event put on by HP Education Fanon, the
501(c)(3) behind Nimbus - 2003, The Witching Hour, Lumos, Prophecy,
Portus and Azkatraz.

Hope to see you next summer!



From geraldine.stokes at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 01:30:56 2009
From: geraldine.stokes at gmail.com (elrondtoo)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:30:56 -0000
Subject: Layha music videos
Message-ID: <h8mqog+55nj@eGroups.com>

There's "Through With You" here - 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlPXfULR6TU

and "The Way Things Are" -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ62Fw5WYQw

Warning - both Harry/Darco...




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 04:30:00 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:30:00 -0000
Subject: halloween costumes
In-Reply-To: <h8dtnq+nm73@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8ppk8+h9s9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "wendydarling6402" <wendydarling6402 at ...> wrote:
>
> Hey everybody
> I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. My thirteen year old daughter has decided that for halloween she wants to be Arnold, yes the pigmy puff. I have absolutly no clue how to make her a costume for this. So I was wondering if any one had any ideas, I know there is no place I could buy one and my sewing is pretty rough. I do knit but I wouldnt even know where to start and I doubt I would have enough time to knit something. So that's it thanks for any tips.
> 
> 
> Wendy
>
Carol responds:
Google images has a few photos of various people's ideas of what Arnold the Pygmy Puff looks like. Here's one of a very little girl dressed as Arnold. (It may make your daughter change her mind about what she wants to be for Halloween, <eg>.):

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1122/979432761_156d1a00b2.jpg

Carol, who didn't imagine Arnold as having antennae like a butterfly




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 03:33:22 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:33:22 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8fiek+mqfp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8sam2+sg46@eGroups.com>

OK... went to the store again tonight. Got the Digestives and will try them tomorrow. Also got a Bounty bar. Sort of like an Almond Joy without the nuts. Was OK. Looking forward to trying the cookies... ah.. biscuts...  biscuts to me are fluffy things with butter... so tomorrow.. cookies and milk.

One curious thing. I looked at another package, which was gravy mix, which I will not get because I don't ... cook. But it said "Energy"... in the ingredients. Energy??  Then I realized that it meant calories. What a sneaky way to tell the calories. OH, it is only energy. Energy is good, right?  lol.

Tonks_op
who almost wrote her real name... oops.. where did I put my polyjuice potion??




From n2fgc at arrl.net  Thu Sep 17 03:56:57 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:56:57 -0400
Subject: Seeking Sherry
Message-ID: <8819BC6BC8B241848B7F511BC4702059@FRODO>

Hi,

I'm looking for Sherry Gomez.  Could you please write me off list at
"n2fgc at arrl.net"?

Thanks.

Lee


Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 17 06:38:56 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:38:56 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8sam2+sg46@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8sli0+sdnl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

Tonks_op
> OK... went to the store again tonight. Got the Digestives and will try them tomorrow. Also got a Bounty bar. Sort of like an Almond Joy without the nuts. 

Geoff:
Almond? Bountys are coconut bars. They are covered with either milk 
chocolate  or dark chocolate. I prefer the latter which are not sold in 
every confectioners.

Tonks_op
> One curious thing. I looked at another package, which was gravy mix, which I will not get because I don't ... cook. But it said "Energy"... in the ingredients. Energy??  Then I realized that it meant calories. What a sneaky way to tell the calories. 

Geoff:
Energy is the standard UK title used in the analysis of contents. Probably 
because a lot of products quote both kcals and kJs on the container.





From predigirl1 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 08:06:29 2009
From: predigirl1 at yahoo.com (Alex Hogan)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
In-Reply-To: <h86dsq+mc3g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <134984.71350.qm@web63708.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

In downtown Odessa, Texas, where I live, the local police office has a massive amount of live oak trees planted on the property. Every year I go into the office and ask if I can harvest the mistletoe from their trees. They not only say "yes" they will go lift me up to help me get the parasitic?growths away from their nice trees. I really should make some nice little ribbon-festooned bundles and sell them! I would make some nice Yule money!
Alex Hogan

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, bboyminn <bboyminn at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: bboyminn <bboyminn at yahoo.com>
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: "Pick your own mistletoe" question.
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 3:13 PM


? 



--- "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at .. .> wrote:
>
> --- "geoff_bannister" <gbannister10@ > wrote:
> 
> > It is very common for certain growers around the UK to open 
> > their land to visitors to choose their own produce to save 
> > owner the trouble of doing it themselves.
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> ... I can see from Steve's post that this is common to the US as well, but I've never even heard of it :-). So ... Xeno is offering his mistletoe cheap or maybe even for free on the condition that people will gather it themselves? 
> 
> What about the second sign then, "Keep Off the Dirigible Plums" :-)? ..., then the whole thing must mean "by all means take the mistletoe, just don't touch my precious Dirigible Plums :-)! 
> 
> Of course, Xeno needs the Dirigible Plums for his thinking process - "to enhance the ability to accept the extraordinary" , LOL.
>

bboyminn:

I haven't been to any famous British gardens, but I suspect that some of the better ones have thousands of visitors a year. Now it is nice for people to walk through and observe, but you wouldn't want to have thousands of feet tramping through your lawns or flowerbeds. I suspect quite a bit of money is expended on keeping the lawns manicured to near carpet perfection ... so stick to the path and 'keep off the grass'. 

Despite the Dirigible Plums being plums, I didn't get the sense that they were a tree or bush, but rather a very low growing plant. As such, some people might mistake them for a weeds and feel free to walk through what they perceive as tall grass or weeds, thereby destroying the plants that Xeno has struggle so hard to cultivate. To preserve his plants and his hard work, please don't go walking among the Dirigible plants - 'Keep off the Dirigible Plums'. 

Mistletoe on the other hand typically grows in trees, and shrubs or bushes, and is therefore less likely to be stepped on. So, no real need to tell people to 'keep off the mistletoe'. 

Steve/bboyminn

















      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Sep 17 11:13:11 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:13:11 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8sli0+sdnl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8t5k7+dh16@eGroups.com>

 
> 
> Geoff:
> Almond? Bountys are coconut bars. They are covered with either milk 
> chocolate  or dark chocolate. I prefer the latter which are not sold in 
> every confectioners.

Potioncat:
Sometimes you feel like a nut,
Sometimes you don't.

That's the beginning to my all time favorite jingle. The visual would be someone acting crazy, then behaving more dignified.
The rest of the jingle goes,

Almond Joy's gots nuts,
Mounds don't.

Mounds would be like Bountys, and Almond Joy would be a Mound with an almond on top of the coconut, under the chocolate covering--also either milk or dark.

Who makes Bountys? I think I've had one before, but I didn't realise it was British. I like it better than Mounds, but I don't remember why.

 
> Geoff:
> Energy is the standard UK title used in the analysis of contents. Probably 
> because a lot of products quote both kcals and kJs on the container.

Potioncat:
What are KJ's?

By the way, Tonks, I laughed at your reaction to energy instead of calories. Energy is good! But it reminded that a lot of our (US) "energy bars" are simply high calorie, high fat products. Great taste wtihout the guilt of eating a candy bar.
>





From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Sep 17 14:26:50 2009
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:26:50 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8t5k7+dh16@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8tgva+mco3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "potioncat" wrote:
[snip]
> > Geoff:
> > Energy is the standard UK title used in the analysis of
> > contents. Probably because a lot of products quote both
> > kcals and kJs on the container.
> 
> Potioncat:
> What are KJ's?

Kilojoule - joule is the SI derived unit for energy.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 17 17:23:29 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:23:29 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8t5k7+dh16@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8trah+53qv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

Potioncat:
> Who makes Bountys? I think I've had one before, but I didn't realise it was British. I like it better than Mounds, but I don't remember why.

Geoff:
Currently, they are marketed by Mars. I think they may have originally 
been introduced by Cadbury.

There have been a lot of mergers and takeovers within the UK confectionery 
industry over the last twenty years or more.




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 19:06:32 2009
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:06:32 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8trah+53qv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8u1bo+b5co@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom@> wrote:
> 
> Potioncat:
> > Who makes Bountys? I think I've had one before, but I didn't realise it was British. I like it better than Mounds, but I don't remember why.
> 
> Geoff:
> Currently, they are marketed by Mars. I think they may have originally 
> been introduced by Cadbury.
> 
> There have been a lot of mergers and takeovers within the UK confectionery 
> industry over the last twenty years or more.
>

Annemehr:

Interesting.  Our Mounds and Almond Joy belong to Mars's rival Hershey, but they still say "Peter Paul" on the wrapper.

I found this on Hershey's website:

-----------------------------------------------------
The first product of the Peter Paul Candy Manufacturing Company, established in 1919 in New Haven, Connecticut, was called "Konabar" and was a blend of coconut, fruits, nuts and chocolate. All products were made at night when air was coolest and sold fresh, door-to-door the following day. In 1920 the MOUNDS candy bar, sweetened coconut enrobed in dark chocolate, was introduced.

During World War II Peter Paul was faced with severe shortages of sugar and coconut which had been shipped from the Philippines before war broke out. Rather than sacrifice quality, the company discontinued some of its lesser selling brands and concentrated production on the MOUNDS candy bar. Over the years Peter Paul added several products to its line, including ALMOND JOY candy bar and YORK Peppermint Pattie.

Cadbury and Peter Paul merged in 1978, and Hershey Foods purchased the company's U.S. operations in 1988. 
------------------------------------------------------

http://www.hersheys.com/products/details/almondjoy.asp

Personally, I'm a Mounds girl.  Once you have coconut and dark chocolate, what else do you need?

Okay, simple caramel coated in salted peanuts is good, too.  That's a Payday.

Annemehr





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Sep 17 22:21:50 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:21:50 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8u1bo+b5co@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8ucpu+3329@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:

Annemehr:
> Personally, I'm a Mounds girl.  Once you have coconut and dark chocolate, what else do you need?

Geoff:
Er... more coconut and dark chocolate?
:-)




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 18 07:22:15 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:22:15 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8u1bo+b5co@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h8vcf7+dhh0@eGroups.com>

---  "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:

> 
> Annemehr:
> 
> Interesting.  Our Mounds and Almond Joy belong to Mars's rival Hershey, but they still say "Peter Paul" on the wrapper.
> 
> ...
> 
> http://www.hersheys.com/products/details/almondjoy.asp
> 
> Personally, I'm a Mounds girl.  Once you have coconut and 
> dark chocolate, what else do you need?
> 
> Okay, simple caramel coated in salted peanuts is good, too.  
> That's a Payday.
> 
> Annemehr
>


What can I say, I've always been a Almond Joy kind of guy. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond_Joy

If not Almond Joy, love that coconut, then always a Hersey 
with almonds as an alternative. 

Love Payday, but prefer a Pearson's Salted Nut Roll. Salty 
peanuts over gooey caramel, all wrapped around what I assume
is white nougat. Loved those as a kid. 

http://www.pearsonscandy.com/nutroll.aspx

One of the reason I never got into Mars bars, or at least, 
the American version...no nuts. I've always preferred Snickers
simply because they have peanuts in them. Got to have some
crunch along with all the gooey goodness.

Anyone tried a Jaffa Cake? Big controversy over whether these
are cake or cookies/biscuits. Apparently there is a significant
tax advantage if they are classified as cake. Though others 
think the are too small to be classifies as such, and think 
that they should have to pay the 'cookie tax'.

I think a big long court proceeding finally ruled them to be
Cake, so no 'cookie tax' on them.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes

Wouldn't mind trying a Jammie Dodgers either, but can't find them
around here. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammie_Dodgers

Steve/bboyminn




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 15:26:07 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:26:07 -0000
Subject: Chocolate Search
In-Reply-To: <8ee758b40801151211x23b4f481sf12dd5d8ea56c4d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h92t6f+dcgp@eGroups.com>

montims:
> 
> Sounds like a Crunchie Bar!
> http://www.cadbury.co.uk/en/ctb2003/product_info/crunchie.htm

Carol responds:
Speaking of Cadbury, appropriately enough, confection manufacturer and reformer George Cacbury (1839-1922) is today's New Oxford Dictionary of National Biography's Life of the Day> You can read about him here:

http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/1.html

Carol, noting that the article will only be online for a week, so if you're interested, you'll need to read it soon





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 18:04:58 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:04:58 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h8vcf7+dhh0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h936ga+ggke@eGroups.com>

> Steve wrote:
> 
> Anyone tried a Jaffa Cake? Big controversy over whether these
> are cake or cookies/biscuits. Apparently there is a significant
> tax advantage if they are classified as cake. Though others 
> think the are too small to be classifies as such, and think 
> that they should have to pay the 'cookie tax'.
> 

Tonks:
OK, I will try the Jaffa Cake next. I did not like the Digestives. I never thought that something with chocolate could ever be bad... but I might give the rest of these away. I think the reason I don't like them is that they are more like something you would find in a health food store. Uck. Made of whole wheat, instead of good old American, bad for you, white flour.

Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 18:50:16 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:50:16 -0000
Subject: Chocolate Search
In-Reply-To: <h92t6f+dcgp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h93958+efjb@eGroups.com>

> Carol responds:
> Speaking of Cadbury, appropriately enough, confection manufacturer and reformer George Cacbury (1839-1922) is today's New Oxford Dictionary of National Biography's Life of the Day> You can read about him here:
> 
> http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/1.html


Tonks:

Here is an interesting part of that article, talking about the mid-1800's.

"At a time when parliamentary attacks were being levelled at adulterated foodstuffs, Cocoa Essence benefited from the absence of additives traditionally used to counteract the taste of the excess oils, and the new product was effectively packaged, branded, and advertised."

Food additives were a problem even then? 

Frankly I don't think the Cadbruy we get here is all that good, as chocolate goes. You see it around Easter, and is very cheap.

While we are on the topic. What about the Harry Potter candies? The frogs here in the U.S. are only good for the collectore cards. The best chocolate frogs were in the UK. But the cards were not great. That chocolate was very good, however. And they had a bar made by Mars, I thing, that was called Honeydukes, that was good too. You guys don't have any HP candy in the UK anymore, do you? I use to get it on E-bay. We don't have much here anymore either, just the beans and those horrible frogs, there might be a new one too. The UK HP candies were the best. I think you use to be able to get the UK version in Canada too.

Tonks_op




From d2dmiles at yahoo.de  Sat Sep 19 21:59:18 2009
From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:59:18 +0200
Subject: English food revisited
References: <h8vcf7+dhh0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <021CAA92F69B42CD8C7204888C7D695E@miles>

I've been working through the mails of three weeks' time after being a bit 
lazy about this group. First I wanted to write "there are not so much 
English foodstuffs available here in Germany", but the latest two examples 
are very popular here and available in every supermarket: Bounty and Jaffa 
cakes. I like bounty because it's not so dry as other chocolate/candy bars 
are. I never realised it is British.
I love Jaffa cakes as well - and I like them best when they are nearly 
frozen! After I buy them I put them into the freezer for an hour or two. If 
they are not frozen, I peel the orange jelly off the biscuits and eat them 
seperately ;).

Another thing we have in all our stores is British Marmalade. I don't know 
if Chivers is popular in the UK as well, but there are several sorts of 
Marmalade, jellys ... from this brand available. My father loved the Ginger 
.... jam? Marmalade? jelly? - whatever, I thought it was disgusting. But the 
Orange Marmalade with thick cuts of peel - marvellous!

While there is no such thing as Marmite over here, I think we have something 
similar as treacle - Sugar beet syrup. It's molasses of sugar beets, and 
it's used both as a spread and for cooking. While it's basically sugar, it 
has a special flavour to it, and you can add it to sauces you serve with 
roast beef or pork, or as an ingredient for puddings of all sorts. I love it 
with potato pancakes (look it up on wikipedia if you don't know it), or as a 
spread on pumpernickel (the REAL pumpernickel, not the so-called 
pumpernickel you can buy all over the world...)

Miles, getting hungry at Midnight... 





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 20 17:42:38 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 20 Sep 2009 17:42:38 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/20/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1253468558.12.87064.m2@yahoogroups.com>

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From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 20 19:33:04 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:33:04 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <021CAA92F69B42CD8C7204888C7D695E@miles>
Message-ID: <h9601g+tgtq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" <d2dmiles at ...> wrote:

Miles:
> Another thing we have in all our stores is British Marmalade. I don't know 
> if Chivers is popular in the UK as well, but there are several sorts of 
> Marmalade, jellys ... from this brand available. My father loved the Ginger 
> .... jam? Marmalade? jelly? - whatever, I thought it was disgusting. But the 
> Orange Marmalade with thick cuts of peel - marvellous!

Geoff:
Chivers is a well known brand but there are many producers - some far better 
than others. A very familiar one is Robertson's Golden Shred. I love it and our 
family get through it at a prodigious rate. They do a Shredless version which, 
like your example is rather too much like jelly.

> Miles, getting hungry at Midnight...

Geoff:
Now, just think of your figure.....





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 20 21:02:03 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:02:03 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9601g+tgtq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9658b+4lgn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Miles" <d2dmiles@> wrote:
> 
> Miles:
> > Another thing we have in all our stores is British Marmalade. I don't know 
> > if Chivers is popular in the UK as well, but there are several sorts of 
> > Marmalade, jellys ... from this brand available. My father loved the Ginger 
> > .... jam? Marmalade? jelly? - whatever, I thought it was disgusting. But the 
> > Orange Marmalade with thick cuts of peel - marvellous!
> 
> Geoff:
> Chivers is a well known brand but there are many producers - some far better than others. A very familiar one is Robertson's Golden Shred. I love it and our family get through it at a prodigious rate. They do a Shredless version which, like your example is rather too much like jelly.
> 
> > Miles, getting hungry at Midnight...
> 
> Geoff:
> Now, just think of your figure.....
>

bboyminn:

Orange marmalade is common in the USA, I usually buy "Smucker's", which is probably the biggest brand of jams, preserves, and jellies. 

But, I'm under the impression that in the UK, there are other common types of marmalade - Lime? Lemon? Other? 

As to the Ginger Jam, that sound appealing. I really like ginger and am obsessed with Ginger Ale. Would dearly love to try some Fentimans. There is nothing like taking a hit off a bottle of ginger ale, and having it hit you back. (note: good ginger ale is fiery hot.)

In the USA, Blenheim's is certainly the best ginger ale by far.

For the record, I've had a couple of types of Ginger Ice Cream, actually tasted nice if you like ginger. But, though I've never found it, I would think Ginger Ale flavored ice cream would be fantastic.  

One thing that has always confused me is Chutney. What is it, and what do you do with it?

Also, it seems to come in a very odd range of flavors ranging from Mango to Chili, and sometimes odd blends of flavor like Mango-Chili. 

I occasionally see it in the stores, but can't bring myself to spend the money for one small taste. 

Steve/bluewizard






From d2dmiles at yahoo.de  Sun Sep 20 21:17:27 2009
From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:17:27 +0200
Subject: English food revisited
References: <h9658b+4lgn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <0829930CB7334F9DB5267AA0CBD9D945@miles>

bboyminn wrote:
> One thing that has always confused me is Chutney. What is it, and
> what do you do with it?
>
> Also, it seems to come in a very odd range of flavors ranging from
> Mango to Chili, and sometimes odd blends of flavor like Mango-Chili.

Miles:
Chutneys are sauces used in the Indian cuisine. They are quite often 
sweet/sour and fruity, with spices like ginger, chili, coriander, ginger and 
so on. The texture is similar to marmalades, and they are fine as an extra 
to curry dishes, to meat, or "asian style" vegetable dishes.

Just try one with ginger, you will like it ;).

Miles, again getting hungry just before midnight!






From n2fgc at arrl.net  Sun Sep 20 22:15:00 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:15:00 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <0829930CB7334F9DB5267AA0CBD9D945@miles>
References: <h9658b+4lgn@eGroups.com> <0829930CB7334F9DB5267AA0CBD9D945@miles>
Message-ID: <3A583ECDAC01462E8D17FE261820DFAF@FRODO>

| bboyminn wrote:
| > One thing that has always confused me is Chutney. What is it, and
| > what do you do with it?
| >
| > Also, it seems to come in a very odd range of flavors ranging from
| > Mango to Chili, and sometimes odd blends of flavor like Mango-Chili.
| 
| Miles:
| Chutneys are sauces used in the Indian cuisine. They are quite often 
| sweet/sour and fruity, with spices like ginger, chili, 
| coriander, ginger and 
| so on. The texture is similar to marmalades, and they are 
| fine as an extra 
| to curry dishes, to meat, or "asian style" vegetable dishes.

[Lee]:
I've been known to eat the stuff out of the container if it's good enough.
Sometimes it's mixed with tabula and makes a nice side dish or condiment.

Cheers,

Lee

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Sep 20 22:14:44 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:14:44 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9658b+4lgn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h969gk+66b0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

bboyminn:
> Orange marmalade is common in the USA, I usually buy "Smucker's", which is probably the biggest brand of jams, preserves, and jellies. 
> 
> But, I'm under the impression that in the UK, there are other common types of marmalade - Lime? Lemon? Other? 

Geoff:
Marmalade generally is made from oranges. However, there are a small 
number of brands of Lime Marmalade. Roses, who are very well-known 
for lime cordial, make the best-known version..

I haven't come across lemon marmalade. If lemons get into any preserves, 
it's most likely Lemon Curd which is a thickish spread.





From d2dmiles at yahoo.de  Sun Sep 20 22:49:04 2009
From: d2dmiles at yahoo.de (Miles)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:49:04 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
References: <h969gk+66b0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <68C471C196124982BB6EA64D9D982D82@miles>

Geoff wrote:
> Marmalade generally is made from oranges. ...
>
> I haven't come across lemon marmalade. If lemons get into any
> preserves,
> it's most likely Lemon Curd which is a thickish spread.

Miles:
Chivers sells Lemon Marmelade, at least over here. It's similar to the 
"fruity" orange Marmalade, the one with smaller bits of peel, that is it's 
half transparent.

What is the definition of a "Marmalade"? It's a bit confusing, because there 
are European "Marmalades" from all kind of fruits. So, the British 
definition of a Marmalade, are the slices of peel crucial, or what is the 
difference between a Marmalade and a, for example, jelly?

Miles, who just ate a toast with strawberry whateveryoucallit ;) 





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 20 23:13:58 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:13:58 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <68C471C196124982BB6EA64D9D982D82@miles>
Message-ID: <h96cvm+smai@eGroups.com>

> Miles, who just ate a toast with strawberry whateveryoucallit ;)
>
Carol:
I don't know what the British would call it, but if it has chunks of fruit in it, we Americans would call it either preserves (large chunks) or jam (small chunks). If it's transparent with no chunks, we'd call it jelly. No such thing as strawberry marmalade here.

Carol, for whom marmalade is made from oranges




From gav_fiji at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 04:16:24 2009
From: gav_fiji at yahoo.com (gav_fiji)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:16:24 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h96cvm+smai@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h96umo+q8o7@eGroups.com>

> Carol, for whom marmalade is made from oranges

Goddlefrood:

In English (UK) marmalade can be made from any citrus fruit, but 
is most commonly associated with oranges. Other types of marmalade 
are quite rare. Iirc, the word itslef is something to do with the 
peel of a citrus fruit, at least that's what I remember my grand 
mother telling me whilst encouraging me to eat the filthy stuff 
;-)




From brian at rescueddoggies.com  Mon Sep 21 13:24:23 2009
From: brian at rescueddoggies.com (Brian)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:24:23 -0300
Subject: English food revisited
Message-ID: <4AB77E87.8060303@rescueddoggies.com>

 >  I haven't come across lemon marmalade. If lemons get into any 
preserves, it's most likely Lemon Curd which is a thickish spread.

Never heard of Silver Shred?  That's lemon marmalade  Same makers as the 
famous Golden Shred.

Brian



From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 16:14:31 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:14:31 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <4AB77E87.8060303@rescueddoggies.com>
Message-ID: <h988p7+cb2v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Brian <brian at ...> wrote:

Brian:
>  >  I haven't come across lemon marmalade. If lemons get into any 
> preserves, it's most likely Lemon Curd which is a thickish spread.
> 
> Never heard of Silver Shred?  That's lemon marmalade  Same makers as the 
> famous Golden Shred.

Geoff:
So i have - and forgotten. I'm not into lemons.




From richard at sc.lug.org.uk  Mon Sep 21 16:59:23 2009
From: richard at sc.lug.org.uk (Richard Smedley)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:59:23 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9658b+4lgn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h98bdb+107f6@eGroups.com>

In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, bboyminn wrote: 
> But, I'm under the impression that in the UK, there are other 
> common types of marmalade - Lime? Lemon? Other? 

Marmalade originated as Marmelo, a Portugese paste made of Quinces.
You can boil up quince pulp at home with equal amounts of sugar 
to make a quince "cheese".

Although Lime & Orange are the two most popular flavours, any
citrus fruit can be used: lemon marmalade is available in the
shops, and I've had home-made grapefruit marmalade before.

> As to the Ginger Jam, that sound appealing. I really like
> ginger and am obsessed with Ginger Ale. Would dearly love to
> try some Fentimans. There is nothing like taking a hit off a
> bottle of ginger ale, and having it hit you back. (note: good
> ginger ale is fiery hot.)

In the UK, ginger ale is a mild, sweet, carbonated drink
occasionally added to whisky (but never, one hopes, to
single malt scotch).

 It sounds like you're describing traditional ginger beer.
My father-in-law gave up brewing ginger beer when once 
it exploded during fermentation, necessitating complete
redecoration of his dining room ;-)

> One thing that has always confused me is Chutney. What 
> is it, and what do you do with it?

Chutney is like pickles (the sort you get in rich, brown 
sauces, not the solo pickles like pickled onions). The
difference is that pickles contain vegetable, but chutneys
contain fruit (marrow, tomato, etc.). Indian chutneys can 
be quite spicy, but many are not - in fact some mango
chutneys are revoltingly sweet.

> I occasionally see it in the stores, but can't bring myself
> to spend the money for one small taste. 

Be brave ;-)

 - Richard

~~

http://twitter.com/RichardSmedley
- food & gardening tweets displacing occasional bits of techie talk.

http://twitter.com/hsNW
- #hackspace tweets for NW England & N Wales








From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 19:59:23 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:59:23 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h96cvm+smai@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h98lur+ovhk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Carol:
> I don't know what the British would call it, but if it has chunks of fruit in it, we Americans would call it either preserves (large chunks) or jam (small chunks). If it's transparent with no chunks, we'd call it jelly. No such thing as strawberry marmalade here.
> 
> Carol, for whom marmalade is made from oranges

Geoff:
Brian has reminded me that lemon marmalade exists but it remains true 
that the great majority of UK residents will use orange marmalade - and 
that probably comes first to mind if you ask folk.

Marmalades are usually made with bits in - often from the peel but, as I 
remarked in an earlier post, Robertsons, one of the major producers, 
market a "Golden Shredless" marmalade. One of my friends who has 
serious stomach problems which preclude him using jam or marmalade 
with bits in uses this brand. 

The word 'preserve' is usually used in the UK as a synonym for jam. Like 
marmalade, jams usually contain solid bits but you can buy seedless 
raspberry and strawberry jams.

I find the products without the bits too bland for my own taste.

With regard to jelly, the word is not used on the context you give but 
usually refers to the packet jellies which are made up with boiling water 
and used in trifles of combined with fruit such as peaches or pears as 
a pudding.





From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 20:18:55 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:18:55 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9658b+4lgn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h98n3f+uu0u@eGroups.com>


Steve/bluewizard said:
 
> Orange marmalade is common in the USA, I usually buy "Smucker's", which is probably the biggest brand of jams, preserves, and jellies. 
> 
> But, I'm under the impression that in the UK, there are other common types of marmalade - Lime? Lemon? Other? 
> 
> As to the Ginger Jam, that sound appealing. I really like ginger and am obsessed with Ginger Ale. Would dearly love to try some Fentimans. There is nothing like taking a hit off a bottle of ginger ale, and having it hit you back. (note: good ginger ale is fiery hot.)
> 
> In the USA, Blenheim's is certainly the best ginger ale by far.

Tonks:
This reminds me. When I went to the UK many years ago, they had the best Ginger Ale. Normally I don't like it, but I couldn't drink coke at the time, and that was the best I ever had. I liked it so much I actually tried to find it in Canada, but couldn't. And that is also when I got hooked on their orange marmalade. Much, much better than Smuckers! I don't know what brand it was, I can't find it here. I do buy the UK brand here. It is more tart tasting and I think made with real sugar. Trying to get away from the high fruitos corn syurp.

I just ate a Java bar. What is in that? I looked on the label. There is nothing there that should give me a migraine, but I feel very dizzy. I wonder it something in it has alcohol in it. Not that great anyway. I am looking forward to the Java cakes which I will have later tonight.  I really need to go on a diet, all of this sugar is probably killing me.

And Steve, why are you 'blue wizard'now. Are you depressed? Or freezing?
Tonks_op




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 21:23:30 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (tonks_op)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:23:30 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <4AB77E87.8060303@rescueddoggies.com>
Message-ID: <h98qsi+d51c@eGroups.com>

> Brian
>
> Never heard of Silver Shred?  That's lemon marmalade  Same makers as the famous Golden Shred.
> 

Tonks:
Not famous here. Never heard of either. Silver shred? is lemon? What is golden? Why don't they just call it what it is?

Tonks_op




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 21:30:23 2009
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:30:23 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h98qsi+d51c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h98r9f+hq3r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> > Brian
> >
> > Never heard of Silver Shred?  That's lemon marmalade  Same makers as the famous Golden Shred.
> > 
> 
> Tonks:
> Not famous here. Never heard of either. Silver shred? is lemon? What is golden? Why don't they just call it what it is?
> 
> Tonks_op
>

Annemehr:
Because it's more fun to give it a name. :)  Golden Shred would be the orange marmalade.




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 21:52:30 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:52:30 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h98lur+ovhk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h98siu+pamu@eGroups.com>

Tonks reporting in.
Just had a Java cake. Yum!!!  Very good. I see the first ingredient, however, is something that looks like it might be the UK equivlent of high fructose corn suyrp. Is that possible? But they are very good. Think I will have another.

Tonks_op




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Sep 21 22:41:31 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:41:31 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h98siu+pamu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h98ver+4oes@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:

Tonks_op
> Tonks reporting in.
> Just had a Java cake. Yum!!!  Very good. I see the first ingredient, however, is something that looks like it might be the UK equivlent of high fructose corn suyrp. Is that possible? But they are very good. Think I will have another.

Geoff:
Being picky, don't you mean a Jaffa Cake?





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 06:27:56 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:27:56 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h98qsi+d51c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h99qpc+68sb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "tonks_op" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> > Brian
> >
> > Never heard of Silver Shred?  That's lemon marmalade  Same makers as the famous Golden Shred.
> > 
> 
> Tonks:
> Not famous here. Never heard of either. Silver shred? is lemon? What is golden? Why don't they just call it what it is?

Geoff:
Golden Shred (and Shredless) are the orange maramlades - because 
they're a golden colour.

They use those names just as any manufacturer has a brand name.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 21:01:37 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:01:37 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h98lur+ovhk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9bdvh+r7cu@eGroups.com>

---  "Geoff" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
>...
> 
> Geoff:
> ...
> 
> With regard to jelly, the word is not used on the context you
> give but usually refers to the packet jellies which are made 
> up with boiling water and used in trifles of combined with 
> fruit such as peaches or pears as a pudding.
>

bboyminn:

You mean 'jelly' is Jell-o. I know Jell-o is a brand name, but 
at least where I am, it is the name used for all fruit flavored
horse hooves with a jelly-like consistency. 

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 22:24:20 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:24:20 -0000
Subject: English food revisited - Ginger Beverage
In-Reply-To: <h98n3f+uu0u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9biqk+deu8@eGroups.com>

---  "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> 
>...
>
> Tonks:
> This reminds me. When I went to the UK many years ago, they had the best Ginger Ale. ...
> 
> I just ate a Java bar. ... Not that great anyway. I am looking forward to the Java (Jaffa?) cakes which I will have later tonight.  I really need to go on a diet, all of this sugar is probably killing me.
> 
> And Steve, why are you 'blue wizard'now. Are you depressed? Or freezing?
> Tonks_op
>

bboyminn:

Responding to Tonks and to someone who made a related comment,
I've always felt that whether a ginger beverage was call Ginger
Ale, Ginger Brew, or Ginger Beer was purely up to the maker and
had no real significants. Though I could be wrong.

I've tried several Ginger beverages from around the world.

Bundaburg Ginger Beer from Australia is very good. Has not 
nice heat without being excessive.

http://www.liquorama.net/bundaberggingerbeernon-alcoholicbeverageaustralia4pack375ml.aspx

Probably the best all round Ginger Ale is Boylans, made with
pure cane sugar. Excellent well balanced ginger ale with 
just a hint of burn.

http://www.boylanbottling.com/

http://www.beveragesdirect.com/detail-215-Boylans_Bottleworks_Ginger_Ale_24_Pack.asp?aid=15

Of course, as I already said, Blenheim's is by far the best,
and they have several different types with different levels of
heat and sweetness. I prefer 'Old #3 Hot'. 

http://theacf.com/blenheim/

http://blenheimshrine.com/

Now there are several regional ginger brews. 

Reed's Ginger Brew, also in a variety of heats and sweetnesses,
is very good with a hint of pineapple. I uses Jamaican Ginger.

http://www.reedsgingerbrew.com/index.php

Reed's also makes ginger ice cream, which, if you like ginger,
is very good.

Locally the easiest to get is Sioux City beverages. 

http://siouxcitybeverages.com/SiouxCity.cfm

While they make a very good Ginger Beer, moderately hot; they
make a Cream Soda to die for, and a very good Saraparilla, as
well as a good Root Beer. 

Also, if you have a Target food store or Target Superstore
near you, try their house brand "Archer Farms" Ginger Ale, 
very good, and reasonably priced. 

Another local Wisconsin micro/craft brewery makes a fantastic
Ginger Ale is Sprecher's Brewery. They do make beer and ale,
but also brew several non-alchololic beverages. There are
true brewed, not just carbonated flavored water.

http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/soda.php

They come in large bottles lightly sweetened, and pleasantly
hot with a hint of vanilla. Because these are only lightly
sweetened, there can be a hint of slightly bitter aftertaste.
Though it has never stopped me from consuming bottle after
bottle of the stuff. 

Now, if you want some fire, the consider Stewart's Ginger Beer;
this, my friend, has some fire. This is a Jamacian style ginger
beer, which accounts for the heat. The drawback is that there is
so much hot ginger, that to balance it off, they need 50 grams
of sugar; about double that of a normal soda. Still, this is
fantastic stuff.

http://drinkstewarts.com/flavors.aspx

This is really fantastic stuff. I top notch Cream Soda, and 
a very good Key Lime soda, plus fantastic Root Beer. 

One of the very best Ginger Ales I've had, is Stirrings from
Nantucket. Served in a tiny 6.3 ounce bottles. This has a 
pleasant Ginger zestiness, blended with a hint of lime, with
ultra-fine champagne bubbles. 

http://stirrings.com/products/cocktail-sodas

The link shows Stirrings in cans, but I much prefer bottles. 

That is just the tip of the ginger iceberg.

Vernor's and Dr. Browns are both oak aged. I didn't fine them
particularly pleasing. They reminded me to much of common
commercial Ginger Ale.

Sarnac's is a recent addition to my Ginger Brew collection.
Nice burn with good balanced flavor, much like Boylan's but
with more burn. Not easy to find though. This is also a truly
brewed ginger beer, not flavored carbonated water. Brewed 
since 1888.

http://www.saranac.com/page/ginger-beer

As I've said, HEAT is the key to good ginger brew. If you take
a hit, and it doesn't hit you back, then its not worth
considering. 

Any of the Ginger Brews I've mentioned will make Canada Dry and
Schwepps seem like Kool-Aid by comparison.

Also, the many craft breweries are far more likely to sweeten 
with real sugar rather than the dreaded High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Now, there are two (at least) Ginger Brews that I want to try -

Fentiman's, described as "This goes a long way to explaining the wonderful Ginger "Burn" that each bottle contains.".

http://www.fentimans.com/range.php

As well as the many other Fentiman's beverages.

And, the Idris 'Fiery' Ginger Beer -

http://www.foodireland.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=524009&Category_Code=beverages&Product_Count=14

Of course worldwide, there are many many Ginger Brews I
would like to try. I would like to go to Jamaica and try some
of their local ginger brews. I suspect these are hot enough to 
light fires with. I suspect there are some Asian Ginger Brews
that are equally as hot. 

A few more in the UK to consider -

DG Old Jamaican Ginger Beer -
http://www.britishfoodshop.com/shopexd.asp?id=87

JCS Ginger Beer -
http://www.britishfoodshop.com/shopexd.asp?id=1572

Cock n Bull Ginger Beer -
http://www.britishfoodshop.com/shopexd.asp?id=69

Schweppes Ginger Beer -
http://www.britishfoodshop.com/shopexd.asp?id=676

I don't expect much form this, but it would be worth
a try. 

This one might be interesting Ginger and Chili -

Breckland Orchards -
http://www.realfooddirect.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=3_22&products_id=5213

Not sure about this, is it wine, ginger brew, ???? -

Original Drinks Company - Rochester Ginger - Dark -
http://www.realfooddirect.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=3_22&products_id=4784

Last but not least, Bollington Ginger Brew made in Cheshire -

http://www.bollingtonbrewing.co.uk/drinks_find_2.htm

This particular Ginger Beer happens to be 4% alcohol.

Like I said, I like Ginger Brew.

As a side note: "BlueWizard" is the name I use in many other
forums. And if I come to this forum after being in those, I
frequently inadvertently sign 'Bluewizard' instead of 'bboyminn'.

Steve/boyminn





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Sep 22 22:33:01 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:33:01 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9bdvh+r7cu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9bjat+530o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
 
Geoff:
> > With regard to jelly, the word is not used on the context you
> > give but usually refers to the packet jellies which are made 
> > up with boiling water and used in trifles of combined with 
> > fruit such as peaches or pears as a pudding.
 
> bboyminn: 
> You mean 'jelly' is Jell-o. I know Jell-o is a brand name, but 
> at least where I am, it is the name used for all fruit flavored
> horse hooves with a jelly-like consistency. 

Geoff:
I'm sorry, I don't understand your reference to "all fruit flavoured
horse hooves"?





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 22:45:12 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:45:12 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9bjat+530o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9bk1o+4uef@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn@> wrote:
>  
> Geoff:
> > > With regard to jelly, the word is not used on the context you
> > > give but usually refers to the packet jellies which are made 
> > > up with boiling water and used in trifles of combined with 
> > > fruit such as peaches or pears as a pudding.
>  
> > bboyminn: 
> > You mean 'jelly' is Jell-o. I know Jell-o is a brand name, but 
> > at least where I am, it is the name used for all fruit flavored
> > horse hooves with a jelly-like consistency. 
> 
> Geoff:
> I'm sorry, I don't understand your reference to "all fruit flavoured
> horse hooves"?
>

bboyminn:

It was my presumably humorous and slight sarcastic way of 
referencing anything made with Gelatine (gelatin). Jello, or as
you call it 'jelly', is made from -

***This is slightly painful if you like Jello, but - ***

Gel?a?tin also gel?a?tine n. 1.a. A colorless or slightly yellow, transparent, brittle protein formed by boiling the specially prepared skin, bones, and connective tissue of animals and used in foods, drugs, and photographic film. 

In other words, horse hooves (and other similar stuff). 

What we in the USA call Jelly, which is something you spread 
on toast, is 'gelled' with fruit pectin, as are most jams and
preservers. 

Sorry, it was just my idea of a joke.

Steve/bboyminn




From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 23:22:57 2009
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:22:57 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h98ver+4oes@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9bm8h+jhi9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op@> wrote:
> 
> Tonks_op
> > Tonks reporting in.
> > Just had a Java cake. Yum!!!  Very good. I see the first ingredient, however, is something that looks like it might be the UK equivlent of high fructose corn suyrp. Is that possible? But they are very good. Think I will have another.
> 
> Geoff:
> Being picky, don't you mean a Jaffa Cake?
>


Tonks_op

Opps. Yes. So much sugar overload... sorry. I ate the whole package yesterday. Now I am wondering if one could not make something like that, only even better, for Christmas. I am not much of a cook, but more of a baker.. but still.. not Julia, or Julie either. I wonder how a real baker would set about making one of those in their own kitchen??

Tonks_op





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Tue Sep 22 23:26:54 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:26:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9bjat+530o@eGroups.com>
References: <h9bdvh+r7cu@eGroups.com> <h9bjat+530o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <60349CCA4DFB4FA98B2AEE0BA6DCA5DA@FRODO>

| Geoff:
| > > With regard to jelly, the word is not used on the context you
| > > give but usually refers to the packet jellies which are made 
| > > up with boiling water and used in trifles of combined with 
| > > fruit such as peaches or pears as a pudding.
|  
| > bboyminn: 
| > You mean 'jelly' is Jell-o. I know Jell-o is a brand name, but 
| > at least where I am, it is the name used for all fruit flavored
| > horse hooves with a jelly-like consistency. 
| 
| Geoff:
| I'm sorry, I don't understand your reference to "all fruit flavoured
| horse hooves"?

[Lee]:
I know we've had this discussion before; I found lots of it in my saved
messages. <Grin>

Okay, "Jelly" is the transparent gelatinous-type stuff used as a spread for
toast, etc.; jelly doesn't have fruit bits or peels or anything one can chew
on.

"Jam" and "Preserve" spreads have fruit bits and/or peels.

What Geoff calls "Jelly" is what we call powdered gelatin which does, as
Steve stated, contain hoof stuff.  However, there are other ways of making
it, I believe, but I don't have a headful of info just now.  Jell-O is the
brand name, but there are other makes of the stuff.  With this gelatin
powder, much of which is fruit-flavored, one can make various desserts,
molded salads, etc.

Hope things start to jell with this explanation. <BEG>

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Sep 23 06:35:27 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:35:27 -0000
Subject: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <60349CCA4DFB4FA98B2AEE0BA6DCA5DA@FRODO>
Message-ID: <h9cfjf+83ds@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lee Storm \(God Is The Healing Force\)" <n2fgc at ...> wrote:

[Lee]:
> I know we've had this discussion before; I found lots of it in my saved
> messages. <Grin>
> 
> Okay, "Jelly" is the transparent gelatinous-type stuff used as a spread for
> toast, etc.; jelly doesn't have fruit bits or peels or anything one can chew
> on.

Geoff: 
Just to clarify...

jelly noun (pl.jellies) 1. chiefly Brit. a dessert consisting of a sweet fruit-flavoured 
liquid set with gelatin to form a semi-solid mass. 
2. A small sweet made with gelatin.
3. A similar preparation or a substance of a similar semi-solid 
consistency.
4. Brit. informal term for gelignite.

Lee:
> "Jam" and "Preserve" spreads have fruit bits and/or peels.

Geoff;
Yes, but as I remarked yesterday, you can get"seedless" jams.





From n2fgc at arrl.net  Wed Sep 23 15:05:55 2009
From: n2fgc at arrl.net (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:05:55 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: English food revisited
In-Reply-To: <h9cfjf+83ds@eGroups.com>
References: <60349CCA4DFB4FA98B2AEE0BA6DCA5DA@FRODO> <h9cfjf+83ds@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5DABFDB3367E43F1B2128BFD9F6F1D59@FRODO>

[Geoff]:
| 2. A small sweet made with gelatin.

[Lee]:
Yes, we have those things, too.  Jellied fruit pieces, usually covered with
crystalized sugar.

[Geoff]:
| Yes, but as I remarked yesterday, you can get"seedless" jams.

Yes, you can here, too, but they still have the fruit meat in them which
differentiates them from jelly here.

Happy eating!

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at arrl.net (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at optonline.net
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 00:35:48 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:35:48 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
Message-ID: <h9jnl4+btqe@eGroups.com>

'One upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious website of forgotten lore, ...'

I'm sure we are all familiar with Edgar Allan Poe's famous
poem "The Raven". I've been studying this recently with the
hope that I can know it well enough to be able to recite it
out loud with some level of proficiency.

As I was recently reading it, something odd struck me.

After the Raven enters the room -

"Though they crest be shorn and shaven thou," I said
"are surely no craven. Ghastly, grim and ancient raven, 
wandering form the nighly shore. Tell me what the lordly
name is on the Night's Plutonian shore."

The mystery is "...Night's Plutonian shore...". Now I 
know that is something of a reference to hell, or to the
edge or shores of hell, but why is it capitalize the way 
it is? 

Why not ... night's Plutonian Shore...?

Why not ... night's Plutonian shore...?

In all instances in the poem, this item is always referenced
as ....Night's Plutonian shore....

Just curious if anyone has ever given this any thought.

What is so special about Night that it is capitalized, 
and what is so insignificant about shore that it is not? 

A few other references that I've tacked down while pondering
this poem.

Nepenthe - is apparently a reference to Homer's Odyssey. It
is a drink the relieves sorrow.

"Quaff, o quaff this kind nepenthe, and forget this lost
Lenore!"

Balm of Gilead - I knew this one instinctively. He is asking
if there is any spiritual peace from the sorrow of his lost
Lenore, and of course the Raven replies - Nevermore. Impling
to the Sad main character that there is no relief from the
heartache.

"Tell this soul with sorrow laden, if, within the distant
Aidenn, I shall clasp a sainted maden, whom the angels 
named Lenore - "

Aidenn is paradise or Eden. I think in the context, it means
Heaven. When I get to Heaven will I be able to hold Lenore
again, and of course, the Raven says - Nevermore.

I suspect, in their day, many of these references we commonly
known. But today, in a world of such great wit and deep 
thinking as "C U L8R" and similar, few would have a clue.

Not real important on the "Night's Plutonian shore", just
wondering if anyone could speculate or knew of an explanation
of why it is capitalized as it is?

Steve/bboyminn





From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 00:51:47 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:51:47 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <h9jnl4+btqe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9joj3+fluk@eGroups.com>

Just wanted to add that there are two definitive versions of the
Raven on YouTube.

One by ...yes, that's right... Homer Simpson. There is something
about his voice that so clearly captures the feelings of the
moment. You should really listen, it is very good. Though, I 
think because of time constraints, they skip one or two middle
verses.

The second is, of course, James Earl Jones. Mostly the cadence
of his voice. He really captures the story in a way the flows
like natural language.

A few others that are worth a look -

Vincent Price gives a dramatic reading as part of his, now
long gone, TV show. He does other classics as well. The video
quality is not so good, and other than being a little overly
dramatic in spots, and having a tendency to excessively roll 
his 'R's. This is very good.

Christopher Walken also does a nice version, though they 
insisted on augmenting it with scary background music that 
just muddies the voice of Walken. It would have been great 
without the background music.

Finally, John Astin, while he is a reasonably good actor, in 
this case he just plows through it. Very little natural 
cadence to his voice. 

Worth a look.

Steve/bboyminn




From coriolan at att.net  Sat Sep 26 03:33:16 2009
From: coriolan at att.net (coriolan_cmc)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 03:33:16 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <h9joj3+fluk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9k21s+ihvu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> Just wanted to add that there are two definitive versions of the
> Raven on YouTube.
> 
And this is the absolute definitive HP-Raven parody, by Red Scharlach.  It was written shortly after Book Six was released.

The Rowling

Once upon a website nameless, where folks bickered, long and aimless,
Over many a controversial plot-point of Potterian lore,
I observed their fights and snapping, and at each fresh burst of yapping,
I could feel the tension sapping, sapping all my patience sore.
"Tis all balderdash!," I muttered, "sapping all my patience sore.
Fandom wank, and nothing more!"

Ah, each oldbie and newcomer bought the newest tome that summer;
Some had found Book Five a bummer, and its plot twists uncalled for.
Eagerly they all had waited - keenly they anticipated
That this volume venerated would improve what went before -
Make up for their disappointment o'er the book that came before -
Which they thought to be a bore.

But each tiresome, sad and silly posting by some halfwit filly
Chilled me - filled me with most tedious whinings never heard before:
Though some found the book quite nifty, for each one who loved it, fifty
Seemed to think it sordid, shifty, and upon it scorn did pour
And they all exclaimed in anger as they on it scorn did pour
"OMG - plot holes galore!"

As I read, their gist grew clearer: "Rowling SUX!" they'd taunt and jeer her
"Though we loathe her use of adverbs, it's the shipping we deplore!
Harry can't end up with Ginny - she's too ginger, she's too skinny
And her voice sounds like a whinny - she's a strumpet, she's a bore!
Yes, we all are sure Hermione is the girl he should adore -
Only she, and not some whore!"

How they bleated in confusion, "Our beliefs are no delusion!
Now we can't believe we ever liked her books in days of yore!
In Book Five she killed our Siri, now her sanity we query
Of these half-baked twists we weary - sex-god Snape exists no more!
As for heinous Tonks and Remus - that must be the final straw!
OOC, and nothing more!"

As I scrolled on through this ranting, all their anger left me panting;
These and something like a million other grievances they bore.
But the drama was unending, and their virulence unbending,
There was bitching and unfriending, legal threats and blood and gore
And it seemed that each new posting brought fresh horrors to abhor
As they cat-fought, tooth and claw!

As I read this drivel shocking, from outside there came a knocking.
"Bloody hell, it's J.K. Rowling! What's she doing at my door?"
As she stood in moonlight gleaming, I did wonder "Am I dreaming?"
And my mind with thoughts a-teeming tried to guess what she'd come for.
Since I had no better notions, I just stared and gaped and swore:
"It's Jo Rowling! Zut alors!"

Though this author blonde was grinning, and her charming manner winning,
I stood thunderstruck and gazed upon her countenance in awe.
"Do not say you were out strolling, for the midnight hour is tolling.
Why on earth would JK Rowling just walk up and bang my door?
You're one very scary lady!" She stood laughing at my door:
"Do I look like Voldemort?"

Much I marvelled, and I told her, "Please, permit me to be bolder,
Could you answer several queries? There are matters to explore
For your fans are disagreeing over what they think they're seeing
And right now your text is being combed for every tiny flaw.
Will you answer and resolve these tricky issues? I implore,
JK, tell us - what's the score?"

When Jo Rowling smiled, assenting, I began my lengthy venting:
"Far too many of your readers spend too much time hunting for
Hidden flints and plot-holes squatting in your convoluted plotting!
But those twists and tangles knotting seem to me quite hard to draw.
How do you prevent them clotting?" Rowling smiled and stroked her jaw.
"I've been watching 24!"

"Now I know the Half-Blood Prince is dearest Snapey, it convinces.
He may be an evil git - but did he murder Dumbledore?
Why did Albus trust a traitor? Will it all be cleared up later?
Or is Snape a Muggle-hater in the pay of Voldemort?
Did poor Albus trust a traitor in the pay of Voldemort?"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "Tragic flaw!"

"Now, Ms Rowling, I've heard leaking - I confess, I was not peeking -
But since you and I are speaking - what does R.A.B. stand for?
Tell me, who would dare to fiddle with the soul of Tom M. Riddle?
Does Mundungus have that locket? Is it stuffed inside a drawer?
Did the youngest Black purloin it? What's the crux and where's the hor?"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "Check the floor!"

"So will Wormtail learn some mercy? And what will become of Percy?
And will Tonks and Remus live to wed, or are they both done for?
Will Lord Voldy hang and quarter all the Weasley sons and daughter?
Is a wholesale good-guy slaughter what Book Seven holds in store?
Will it end up in a bloodbath? Will folks die that we care for?"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "S?, se?or!"

"Now my thoughts must turn to shipping - 'twas a subject most found gripping
But when Harry snogged with Ginny, ships were broken on the shore!
Since he met her in the second book has love with Ginny beckoned?
What about the crowd who reckoned that Ms Granger'd be his squaw?
Is the matter finished now, or is there truth in what they saw?"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "My word's law!"

"JK!" said I, "tell me plainly! - in this fandom, so ungainly,
Many speculate on Lily and the saintly guise she wore.
We know she was good at potions - did she also stir emotions?
Pray confirm my wildest notions - James was not her only score?
Were there other beaus that Lily had? - Lupin? Snape? Or Voldemort?"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "Can't say more!"

"JK!" said I, "tell me truly! - in this fandom, so unruly
When Book Seven arrives in bookstores or is pushed right through our door
Can you promise something trashy, something sexy, something slashy?
Will you pull out something flashy that these fangirls won't abhor?
All those strange, eccentric readers craving something more hard-core?"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "Goats galore!"

"How I've bored you with this madness - poor JK!" I sighed in sadness,
"Best get back to your computer and resume your final chore.
Just ignore the online prattle - let young Harry fight his battle
And we'll wait for something that'll end the tale and close the door!
Fight the fight and write what's right, and we will wait for one book more!"
Quoth Jo Rowling, "I withdraw!"

So Jo Rowling, never griping, still is typing, still is typing
In her modest Scottish palace filled with kids and cash galore,
And the fandom, far from thanking, still is wanking, still is wanking;
Though they all deserve a spanking, still they wage their flaming war.
And the book that ends the saga shall be published - less or more -
In June 2034....

   - CMC

HARRY POTTER FILKS
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm





From alexisnguyen at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 13:43:30 2009
From: alexisnguyen at gmail.com (P. Alexis Nguyen)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:43:30 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <h9jnl4+btqe@eGroups.com>
References: <h9jnl4+btqe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b6e131bf0909260643n3cdc127fma131fe193718b989@mail.gmail.com>

Steve/bboyminn
> The mystery is "...Night's Plutonian shore...". Now I
> know that is something of a reference to hell, or to the
> edge or shores of hell, but why is it capitalize the way
> it is?

Ali:
Pure speculation and having not used this particular portion of my
brain for a few years ...

I would suspect that the death reference is in both Night and
Plutonian, and both are referencing different ideas when it comes to
death.  Night, I would venture is the "person" in this, not Pluto, and
I would rephrase the words into something like "Hades' Styx shore,"
with Hades being the god and not the place  Does that make any sense?
I'm sure it probably doesn't make much.

I tried finding some support for this wild speculation of mine, but
nothing from Google to the Poe Decoder wanted to help me.  :)


Steve/bboyminn
> I suspect, in their day, many of these references we commonly
> known. But today, in a world of such great wit and deep
> thinking as "C U L8R" and similar, few would have a clue.

Ali:
First, took me 3 tries to figure out what "C U L8R" meant (and 3 tries
to type it ... correctly?).  And it may just be a function of the
types of people who I've had classes with all my life but more than a
few of them would be able to speculate on the nature of "Night's
Plutonium shore" much faster than figure out what "C U L8R" means.
(For the record, I'm 26, usually right around the age that people talk
about when they talk about "kids today are growing up ...")

Second, I would actually suspect that the references would not be
commonly known in Poe's days.  I have nothing to back up my suspicion
except that the poem specifically reference the narrator's many
"volumes of forgotten lore," which would imply that the narrator's
references in the poem should be somewhat obscure as well.

~Ali, who has felt older and older each day since she realized that
the new college freshmen were born in the '90s.



From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 20:19:05 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:19:05 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <h9jnl4+btqe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9lsvp+ogor@eGroups.com>

Steve (bboyminn wrote):
<snip>
> The mystery is "...Night's Plutonian shore...". Now I know that is something of a reference to hell, or to the edge or shores of hell, but why is it capitalize the way it is? 
> 
> Why not ... night's Plutonian Shore...?
> 
> Why not ... night's Plutonian shore...?
> 
<snip>
> 
> What is so special about Night that it is capitalized, and what is so insignificant about shore that it is not? 

Carol responds:
Normally, when Night is capitalized, it's a personification, almost a goddess or deity, but in "the Raven," Night is treated metaphorically as a *place* with an edge or shore that leads into or merges with Pluto's realm, Hades. "Plutonian" is a proper adjective, derived from the proper noun (name) Pluto; "shore" is just a common noun. There's no such place as the Plutonian Shore. The idea is that the night, which he personifies, is hellish and connected with death.

At any rate, Night is an entity with identifiable properties whereas "shore" is just an ordinary noun. I can't imagine a deity with that name.

Think of Night as a terrifying, hellish into which you can sail, leaving the safety of light and land behind. It seems to be for Poe and his narrator) a place or state of nightmares and demons (like the raven).

Just my interpretation. My (very old) Norton Anthology of American Literature merely says, "The infernal regions were ruled by Pluto," a very inadequate explanation, I agree. (The Heath Anthology of North American Literature has a similar explanation equating Pluto with hell, no reference to Night or "shore.")

Steve:
> 
> Nepenthe - is apparently a reference to Homer's Odyssey. It is a drink the relieves sorrow.

Carol:
Yes, sort of. Nepenthe was a plant that came from Egypt and was mixed with wine to induce forgetfulness.

Steve: 
> Balm of Gilead - I knew this one instinctively. He is asking
> if there is any spiritual peace from the sorrow of his lost
> Lenore, and of course the Raven replies - Nevermore. Impling
> to the Sad main character that there is no relief from the
> heartache.

Carol:
It's a biblical allusion: "Is there no balm in Gilead?" (Jeremiah 6:22). Balm (a healing salve) from the land of Gilead is also mentioned in the story of Joseph: "[B]ehold, a company of Ishmeelites [sic] came from Gilead with their camels bearing spicery and balm and myrrh, going to carry it down to Egypt" (Genesis 37:25).

Steve: 
> "Tell this soul with sorrow laden, if, within the distant Aidenn, I shall clasp a sainted maiden, whom the angels named Lenore - "
> 
> Aidenn is paradise or Eden. I think in the context, it means Heaven. When I get to Heaven will I be able to hold Lenore again, and of course, the Raven says - Nevermore.

Carol:
That sounds right to me. It seems to be an alternate spelling of Eden chosen to rhyme with "maiden."

Steve: 
> I suspect, in their day, many of these references we commonly known. 
<snip>

Carol:
Yes. Poe expected his readers to be familiar with both Greco-Roman mythology and the Bible. I think he would have been shocked that even mid-twentieth-century readers required footnotes or glosses to understand his poetry.

Carol, glad that Steve is still on his poetry binge and recommending Coleridge's "Ancient Mariner" if you like "The Raven"




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 22:30:59 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:30:59 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <b6e131bf0909260643n3cdc127fma131fe193718b989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h9m4n3+rhep@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "P. Alexis Nguyen" <alexisnguyen at ...> wrote:
>
> Steve/bboyminn
> > The mystery is "...Night's Plutonian shore...". Now I
> > know that is something of a reference to hell, or to the
> > edge or shores of hell, but why is it capitalize the way
> > it is?
> 
> Ali:
> Pure speculation and having not used this particular portion
> of my brain for a few years ...
> 
> I would suspect that the death reference is in both Night
> and Plutonian, and both are referencing different ideas when
> it comes to death.  Night, I would venture is the "person" 
> in this, not Pluto, and I would rephrase the words into 
> something like "Hades' Styx shore," with Hades being the god
> and not the place  Does that make any sense?
> I'm sure it probably doesn't make much.
> 
> ...
> 

bboyminn:

I've read both your and Carol's explanations, and I'm still
not clear on the 'Night' part. 

How is 'night' any different than 'shore'. Sure 'night' has
symbolism, but in this case, so does 'shore'. 

Let me quote the instances again, so we are all on the same
page -

"Though thy crest be shorn and shave thou," I said, "art
sure no craven, ghastly, grim, and ancient raven, wandering
from the nightly shore. Tell me what the lordly name is on
the Night's Plutonian shore." (Verse 8)

Notice here in one sentence, he says 'nightly shore', and in
the next he says "Night's Plutonian shore'. 

Also notice that it is 'what THE lordly name is on THE
Night's Plutonian shore'. Not what YOUR name is but what
THE name is. Is he asking the name of the Raven. The
rest of the poem seems to imply that. 

Or, is he asking the Raven, greatly paraphrased, what is the
name of the God the dwells on the edges of hell? 

Finally, as the narrator grows more angry, in Verse 17, he
says -

"Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!" I shrieked,
upstarting - 
"Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian 
shore! Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul
hath spoken!"

Again, "Night's" is possessive, am I safe in assuming that?

Could we substitute 'Dark' or 'Darkness' for 'Night'?

Get they back into Dark's Plutonian shore. Has the author 
simple personified Darkenss and Night? And, since he is
treating concept of 'night' and 'darkness' as a named person,
does that explain the capitalization?

Is it, get the back into the Plutonian shore belonging to 
Night? Or get thee back into the domain belonging to 
Darkness or Night? 

One last very unlikely point; could this be a reference to 
another piece of literature? Could there be an author named
Night, who wrote something about the Plutonian shore? And so,
Poe would expect contemporary readers of the time to be 
familiar with this literary reference? 

Making the quotation, paraphrased, get thee back to the
Plutonian shore so aptly described by Night in his writings?

> 
> Steve/bboyminn
> > I suspect, in their day, many of these references we 
> > commonly known. But today, in a world of such great wit and
> > deep thinking as "C U L8R" and similar, few would have a 
> > clue.
> 
> Ali:
> First, took me 3 tries to figure out what "C U L8R" meant 
> ....  And it may just be a function of the types of people who
> I've had classes with all my life but more than a few of them
> would be able to speculate on the nature of "Night's Plutonium
> shore" much faster than figure out what "C U L8R" means.
> (For the record, I'm 26, ....
> ... 
>
> ~Ali, ...
>

bboyminn:

Ali, it is nice to know that there are a few young people in
the world that are capable of thoughts longer and deeper than
140 characters. 

Just curious, did anyone check out Homer Simpson's "The Raven"?
I think it was from one of their Holloween shows. I'm still
amazed at how well Homer does this. You would think his voice
was all wrong for such a serious poem, but, in my opinion,
he nails it. 

Still, no one beats James Earl Jones.

Steve/bluewizard




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 22:42:43 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:42:43 -0000
Subject: The Cremation of Sam McGee
Message-ID: <h9m5d3+t9li@eGroups.com>

I meant to tack this onto my last post, but I forgot. 

It is hard to say why some poems grab me, and other don't, but
I certainly found this one enjoyable. 

"The Cremation of Sam McGee"
Robert Service (1874-1958)

There are strange things done in the midnight sun
by men who moil for gold; the Arctic trails have
their tales that would make your blood run cold;
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
but the queerest they ever did see
was that night on the marge of Lake Labarge
I cremated Sam McGee.

Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee,
where the cotton blooms and blows.
Why he left his home in the South to roam
'round the Pole, God only knows.
... ... ...

15 verses, but it tells a very vivid and chilling, plus a
slighly fanciful, tale. 

Marge = edge. That night on the edge of Lake Labarge. 

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/2640/?letter=C&spage=26

Steve/bboyminn




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 23:16:54 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:16:54 -0000
Subject: The Cremation of Sam McGee
In-Reply-To: <h9m5d3+t9li@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9m7d6+6c00@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> I meant to tack this onto my last post, but I forgot. 
> 
> It is hard to say why some poems grab me, and other don't, but
> I certainly found this one enjoyable. 
> 
> "The Cremation of Sam McGee"
> Robert Service (1874-1958)
> 
> 

If you don't feel like reading, Hank Snow, the country and western singer, does a very nice recitation of 'Sam McGee' -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIqwyR1ays

Here is another rendition of the poem, I kind of like this narrators presentation -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lBkuz1TlVc&feature=related

Enjoy.

Robert Service also has his own website with several of his more popular poems -

http://www.robertwservice.com/

Steve/bboyminn




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 03:38:44 2009
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:38:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Cremation of Sam McGee
In-Reply-To: <h9m7d6+6c00@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <703643.49433.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
> >
> > I meant to tack this onto my last post, but I forgot.
> 
> > 
> > It is hard to say why some poems grab me, and other
> don't, but
> > I certainly found this one enjoyable. 
> > 
> > "The Cremation of Sam McGee"
> > Robert Service (1874-1958)
> > 
> > 
> 

Sheryll:

I've been a huge fan of Robert Service since I was about 16. No surprise that my discovery of his poetry coincided with a trip to the Yukon. :) When I got home I realised my father had a copy of The Collected Poems of Robert Service. I pretty much wore the covers off his copy and the year I moved away from home after high school he gave me my own copy for Christmas. 

I used to be able to recite The Cremation of Sam McGee off by heart. These days I'm lucky to remember the first couple verses. 

Steve/bboyminn:
<snip> 
> Robert Service also has his own website with several of his
> more popular poems -
> 
> http://www.robertwservice.com/
> 

Sheryll:

Most of my favourites are found on the website. Poetry is under the "Archives" link and is listed by book. In the style of The Cremation of Sam McGee, I also like The Ballad of the Ice-Worm Cocktail (found in Bar-Room Ballads) and The Shooting of Dan McGrew (found in The Spell of the Yukon, along with Sam McGee). 

I'm somewhat partial to some of his more sentimental works as well. Good-Bye, Little Cabin (from Rhymes of a Rolling Stone) and Spell of the Yukon (from the book of the same name). I don't think anyone who's stood in the wild open spaces of the Yukon can read Spell of the Yukon and not be moved by it. He captures it so perfectly, IMO, especially in the last few lines of that poem.

"It's the great, big, broad land 'way up yonder,
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace."

It's been almost 35 years since I was in the Yukon (yes, I was an impressionable teenager <g>) and this poem still moves me when I read it. 

Sheryll, who still thanks the Girl Guides for sending her up there


      __________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 04:51:37 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 04:51:37 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <h9m4n3+rhep@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9mr0p+slea@eGroups.com>


Steve:
> Again, "Night's" is possessive, am I safe in assuming that?

Carol:
Yes on that one.
> 
> Could we substitute 'Dark' or 'Darkness' for 'Night'?

Carol:
Yes and no. Night has been personified as almost a being, whereas I don't think darkness has. Night is more than darkness; it's the absence of the sun and the time of sleep--or sleepless terror if you're a Poe character--and nightmares or real terrors that strike in the dark of night. 

Steve: 
> <snip> Has the author simple personified Darkenss and Night? And, since he is treating concept of 'night' and 'darkness' as a named person, does that explain the capitalization?

Carol:
As I said, a capital letter usually signifies personification in poetry, but I don't see how it could be personification here since beings don't have shores, figurative or literal. It's almost as if Night is some hellish realm for our not exactly sane narrator, who wants the raven to go back to that place/state and leave him, literally, alone. 

Steve.
> Is it, get the back into the Plutonian shore belonging to Night? Or get thee back into the domain belonging to Darkness or Night? 

Carol:
The Plutonian (hellish) shore belongs to Night. Think of Night as a *place* or state of being.

Steve: 
> One last very unlikely point; could this be a reference to another piece of literature? Could there be an author named Night, who wrote something about the Plutonian shore? <snip>

Carol:
Definitely not. You're making it harder than it needs to be. Basically, he's telling the raven to go back to the hellish darkness that it came from, but Night is capitalized because it has reality and substance for him as an abstraction in a way that "shore" (which is not scary or associated with darkness and nightmares) does not.

Think of Voldemort's fear of darkness and its association in his mind with death. Add to that an association with terror and madness and you have this (mad) narrator's view of Night.

Carol, just giving her own interpretation




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 06:22:11 2009
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 06:22:11 -0000
Subject: The Cremation of Sam McGee
In-Reply-To: <703643.49433.qm@web63406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <h9n0aj+k5jp@eGroups.com>

--- Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at ...> wrote:
>
> > "bboyminn" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I meant to tack this onto my last post, but I forgot.
> > 
> > > 
> > > It is hard to say why some poems grab me, and other
> > don't, but I certainly found this one enjoyable. 
> > > 
> > > "The Cremation of Sam McGee"
> > > Robert Service (1874-1958)
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> Sheryll:
> 
> I've been a huge fan of Robert Service since I was about 16. 
< ...
> 
> I used to be able to recite The Cremation of Sam McGee off
> by heart. These days I'm lucky to remember the first couple verses. 
> 
> Steve/bboyminn:
> <snip> 
> > Robert Service also has his own website with several of his
> > more popular poems -
> > 
> > http://www.robertwservice.com/
> > 
> 
> Sheryll:
> 
> Most of my favourites are found on the website. Poetry is under the "Archives" link and is listed by book. In the style of The Cremation of Sam McGee, I also like The Ballad of the Ice-Worm Cocktail (found in Bar-Room Ballads) and The Shooting of Dan McGrew (found in The Spell of the Yukon, along with Sam McGee). 
> ...
> 

bboyminn:

Previously, I linked to a version of Sam McGee by Hank Snow,
but I've discovered that Hank Snow did an entire album of
Robert Service poems. I'd like to have that album, but short
of that, many of the are on YouTube.

I read a couple other poems by Robert Service and they have
the same life and whimsy as Sam McGee.

Also, off on another subject, I found another very good
version of The Raven -

http://www.livevideo.com/video/mejpye/FBF41FD110D04DA6925482A19C49C2D3/the-raven.aspx

Rather than a tale in Horror, this version is more a character
study study of the painfully depressed main character. Worth
a listen. 

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Sep 27 17:41:45 2009
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 27 Sep 2009 17:41:45 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/27/2009, 1:00 pm 
Message-ID: <1254073305.8.84772.m5@yahoogroups.com>

Reminder from: HPFGU-OTChatter Yahoo! Group
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From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 18:44:23 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:44:23 -0000
Subject: The Night's Plutonian Shore
In-Reply-To: <h9m4n3+rhep@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9obq7+j8ns@eGroups.com>

> bboyminn:
> How is 'night' any different than 'shore'. Sure 'night' has
> symbolism, but in this case, so does 'shore'. 
> 
> Let me quote the instances again, so we are all on the same
> page -
> 
> "Though thy crest be shorn and shave thou," I said, "art
> sure no craven, ghastly, grim, and ancient raven, wandering
> from the nightly shore. Tell me what the lordly name is on
> the Night's Plutonian shore." (Verse 8)
> 
> Notice here in one sentence, he says 'nightly shore', and in
> the next he says "Night's Plutonian shore'. 
> 
> Also notice that it is 'what THE lordly name is on THE
> Night's Plutonian shore'. Not what YOUR name is but what
> THE name is. Is he asking the name of the Raven. The
> rest of the poem seems to imply that. 

Kemper now:
If your version of the text says 'what THE lordly name is', then you are reading a sad reprinting.  The original reads/asks/demands 'Tell me what THY lordly name is on the Nights Plutonian shore!' To which the Raven answers that his name is Nevermore, or at least that what the narrator believes the name to be.  He also later assigns the Raven the sex of male (which is why I typed 'his' name): 'on the morrow /he/ will leave me...' referencing the Raven, emphasis is Poe's. 

It is midnight when the narrator hears a taping.  I assume the narrator is near a shoreline as he tells his story, the Raven comes in from the shore at night or nightly shore.

So the narrator believes that the Raven is from some place else beyond the shore he is near and across the ocean to the Night's Plutonian shore, where the ocean meets Plutopia (I kid!) 

I think Poe used 'the' in order to meet the cadence/rhythm of the line.  To misquote Freud: sometimes a the is just a the.


> Steve:
> Again, "Night's" is possessive, am I safe in assuming that?

Kemper now:
Yes

> Steve:
> Could we substitute 'Dark' or 'Darkness' for 'Night'?

Kemper now:
Yes, or Death or Shadow.

> Steve:
> Get they back into Dark's Plutonian shore. Has the author 
> simple personified Darkenss and Night? And, since he is
> treating concept of 'night' and 'darkness' as a named person,
> does that explain the capitalization?

Kemper now:
Yes.

> Steve:
> Is it, get the back into the Plutonian shore belonging to 
> Night? Or get thee back into the domain belonging to 
> Darkness or Night? 

Kemper now:
Into the domain.

 
> bboyminn:
> Just curious, did anyone check out Homer Simpson's "The Raven"?
> I think it was from one of their Holloween shows. I'm still
> amazed at how well Homer does this. You would think his voice
> was all wrong for such a serious poem, but, in my opinion,
> he nails it. 

Kemper now:
He doesn't nail it until the end, imo.
I have memorized The Raven... more out of boredom than any intellectual pursuit.  I had quit smoking so instead of going outside to hurt my lungs during my breaks, I would head into the basement of my place of work where there was a little work out room.  There was also little radio reception, so as I found exercise boring without music or anything stimulating, I found a book of poetry and recited the longest poem with an easy story and rhythm.  It took me a month and about 10 lbs which I've kept off as well as 20 other pounds.  But I did it. I entertain youth with it in the fall at work. It's not really a poem for the sunshine.

Have fun with it!  I sometimes recite the narrators voiced parts in the poem in a whiny tone.  Because, really... the narrator is a bit emo-ie and sees death in everything, even an effing bird.  
What a crybaby!

Kemper






From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 27 19:38:20 2009
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:38:20 -0000
Subject: Plutonian (Nygian?) Marmalade
Message-ID: <h9oevc+nnh9@eGroups.com>

Steve bboyminn wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/40001>:

<< Orange marmalade is common in the USA, I usually buy "Smucker's", which is probably the biggest brand of jams, preserves, and jellies. But, I'm under the impression that in the UK, there are other common types of marmalade - Lime? Lemon? Other? >>

There's Peach Marmalade in the USA. I think it's available in more stores than just that little place in Tribeca that I used to go when Tribeca was still an 'industrial' rather than fashionable area. That little place also had Apricot Marmalade. I was under the impression that any orange colored fruit can be made into marmalade. Kumquat Marmalade. Maybe Mango Marmalade?

Steve bboyminn wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/40026>:

<< The mystery is "...Night's Plutonian shore...". Now I know that is something of a reference to hell, or to the edge or shores of hell, but why is it capitalize the way it is? >>

Maybe "Plutonian" is capitalized only because of being named after Pluto, and maybe he meant 'plutonian shore', whose synonyms would not be capitalized, like hellish (as you said) or profoundly dark or secret...


Maybe by "Night", he means the Greek goddess Nyx (I am told that her name means "Night" in Greek) who was said (IIRC by Hesiod) to have been the first being when she arose spontaneously from primordial chaos. She gave birth without a partner to Eros, who set all that chaos into order by causing attraction of like to like, so that all the earth gathered together at the bottom, all the water gathered together in an ocean around the earth, all the fire gathered together at the top as the sky, and all the air gathered together in between the earth and the sky.

If we allow that Eros is the forces of attraction and repulsion, not just attraction, and that the elements are photons, electrons, quarks, gluons rather than fire, air, water, earth, then the the above story is, by current knowledge, true: the attractive force of gravity and the attractive/repulsive forces of electromagnetism and the weak force (one entity called "electroweak") and the strong force set all those elements in order.





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 22:05:10 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (justcarol67)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:05:10 -0000
Subject: Night again
In-Reply-To: <h9oevc+nnh9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9onim+6omg@eGroups.com>

Catlady:> 
> Maybe "Plutonian" is capitalized only because of being named after Pluto, and maybe he meant 'plutonian shore', whose synonyms would not be capitalized, like hellish (as you said) or profoundly dark or secret...

Carol:
As I said upthread, it's a proper adjective and therefore capitalized, just as "American," derived from the proper noun "America," is capitalized, whether it's used as an adjective or a noun.
> 
I don't think that "Night" is a personification unless a being can have (literal or figurative) shores. However, I looked up Nyx (or maybe we should call her Nox, since Poe uses the Roman names) in Wikipedia (I know, I know; find a more authoritative source!) and found that Nyx/Night leaves Tartarus (the part of the underworld reserved for punishment; roughly, hell) at the same moment her daughter, Hemera (Day) enters it (and, presumably, vice versa). So *maybe* the Plutonian shore is the edge of Tartarus that belongs to Night or is used by her to enter or leave Tartarus, and our mad narrator imagines the bird as dwelling there. (What's your name on the Plutonian shore, you ungainly, ghastly, gaunt, and ominous bird of yore?) Maybe it should be Stygian shore, as in the shore of the River Styx? Of course, Tartarus is an abyss and wouldn't border the River Styx, so maybe Poe is thinking of Hades (or whatever the Romans called the realm of Pluto) in general, or rather, the part bordering the Styx, which would be its "shore."

Or he's thoroughly mixing his images and metaphors so that Night is both a place and a being, not to mention a time of darkness, inseparable in his unstable brain from Tartarus, the part of Pluto's realm where the evil dead are punished (for our purposes, hell), or from Hades/the Underworld/the realm of Pluto in general, which he's not conceiving as a happy place.

Carol, who thinks that perhaps we shouldn't try to be too rational in our analysis given Poe's own mental instability