Writers and other artists of 20 century which in your opinion will be remembered

[dumbledore11214]

.> Geoff:
> I'm coming to this thread late. Having flipped through OTC regularly and 
> thought "Oh dear, nothing new", I came today after a couple of days gap 
> and looked, gobsmacked, at the number of new posts.

Alla:

I am glad my question reenergized OTC a little bit then :)

Geoff: 
> Alla, I fear that I shall disagree with you over this.  JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis 
> and JK Rowling all share something in common in that they are all writing 
> from a Christian point of view.

Alla:

I do not think we do disagree on this point, I am in complete agreement with you that all these three writers write from Christian point of view, what we do (probably) disagree on, although considering your next sentence I again not sure how much is that I consider C.S.Lewis the least accomplished *artist* from these three writers, I am going to put a disclaimer one more time, but this would be the last time, I have only read Narnia, so I only judge him as the artist who wrote those works.

I know you are aware that I am not a Christian (neither do I follow traditional Judaism while being Jewish), in fact I do not follow any traditional religion, but I most definitely believe in God. Amusingly enough for me (and this is not something I am prepared to debate, so could we please not?), a lot of ideas of Christianity I am drawn to and share, most significantly the love to each other and one God. But there are quite a few ideas and messages of Christianity which I most definitely do not share and not drawn to. I am rambling, but please bear with me. My point is that for me (and not only for me), while I of course see *very* significant influence of Christianity in the works of JKR and Tolkien, I can relate to them, while I do not feel that Narnia is anything else but simple allegory of Christianity. I feel that Tolkien created the whole complex new world, which is while of course influenced by Christianity is *his* creation and Narnia, well, basically for me it comes down to "Yes, I get who the lion is, can we please see something more interesting and original". Not to mention of course that several things in Narnia books to me represent the ideas I most vehemently not drawn to and make me quite angry. Anyway, my main point is that I do know that these three are influenced by Christianity, I just feel that Lewis is the least succesful writer of them all.

Geoff:
I agree that CS Lewis is probably the most 
> overt in his presentation of Christian themes.

Alla:

For me this is an understatement, I would say very in your face and with very little presentation of his ideas in Narnia.

Geoff:
However, if you read JRRT, 
> especially in "The Silmarillion" he placed Middle Earth well inside the 
> ideas of Christianity. The sections dealing with the creation of the world 
> by Eru and the Ainur, who are given oversight of mortal races, deliberately 
> parallel the real world; we have a fallen "Angel", Melkor who becomes 
> Morgoth and who is comparable with Lucifer whose fall leads to him 
> becoming Satan. JKR has also made many nods in the direction of 
> Christian belief in the Harry Potter canon. 

Alla:

Yes, I know and that is why I was barely able to finish Cilmarion once and reread LOTR every year. But I would still place Cilmarion higher than Narnia, even as companion to LOTR. 


Geoff:
> As has been pointed out, CS Lewis (and for that matter JRR Tolkien) were 
> not a priori fiction writers. They were both University lecturers and also 
> close friends. CS Lewis, after his conversion, became a great apologist 
> and wrote many, many devotional  and teaching books; I recall having 
> been deeply influenced by his writings as a young Christian in the 1960s. 
> The Screwtape Letters and their sequel, were specifically written as a 
> warning, albeit couched in humorous terms, to believers of the way 
> in which their faith could be undermined and their witness weakened. 
> 
> In addition to these and the Narnia books, he also wrote the Ransom 
> trilogy of science-fiction books (Out of the Silent Planet, Voyage to 
> Venus and That Hideous Strength) which again also referenced Christian 
> faith within their story.
> 
> There is a truth in that these books can be appreciated by folk who are 
> not Christian believers because there is some element of God in all of 
> us whether we have connected with it or not.

Alla:

And thats my point I guess, I feel that Tolkien is telling us universal truths and whatever truths Lewis is telling us when he is talking about "other" people, who are portrayed so horribly because they don't believe in Aslan and only one of them (do not remember if those are the same people as portrayed in earlier book and the one who is portrayed in the last book) is allowed to enter to new Narnia, I want no part of. 



Geoff:
> If I might digress to the question of the 20th century, I believe that 
> much of our appreciation of lasting art, in its widest interpretation, 
> has been progressively shaped and reshaped by the changing face of 
> the media, probably greater in the 20th century than in any other. 
> 
> Consider that in 1901, films and sound recording were in their very 
> infancy. Seeing a photograph or going to a concert; making a film 
> or even reading a book was for varying sections of the population 
> beyond their reach or considered as esoteric scientific exercises which 
> would "never come to anything". 
> 
> I think that many of the books which have been mentioned have 
> reached the lists because they have initially been successful and have 
> been expanded by their creators until their characters have been so 
> well delineated that we feel we know them as friends and even family. 
> Isn't that the case with Harry,  with Frodo and with some of the earlier 
> writers? And doesn't it become even more so when those "friends" are 
> brought to visual life in TV and film adaptations?  My wife is a huge 
> fan of the Forsyte Saga and Galsworthy's world has been  made even 
> more vivd by the brilliant TV adaptations of some decades ago. And 
> I have to confess that, in the Potterverse, although my love is first for 
> the books and second for the films, I see the characters as I read, in 
> the personae of the films, Dan as Harry, Tom as Draco and so on.
> 
> I won't go on much further (sigh of relief) but how much has music in 
> the last century been increasingly produced for films or stage 
> performance rather than the concert platform?. What do I think of 
> when John Williams' name or Howard Shore's is mentioned? Film 
> scores. The number of 20th and 21st century composers who 
> produce full works for, say, concert performance in the tradition of 
> Beethoven, Brahms or Mendelssohn, is becoming increasingly limited 
> as we look at music as a part of a whole emotional and aesthetic 
> experience.
> 
> As has been suggested, we probably need to be another 25-30 years 
> down the line before we can see what pattern the changing likes of 
> readers and listeners and the ever-changing technical developments 
> of artistic media will have shaped.
>


Alla:

Oh I do not have anything to argue with what you said here, I think I just have to think more about it.