From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 1 01:35:01 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 01:35:01 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter and the missing courtyard? Message-ID: <906v85+o2o3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6253 Ok here is a mystery for you... "...The day before Harry's first Quidditch match the three of them were out in the freezing courtyard during break and she had conjured them up a bright blue fire that could be carried around in a jam jar. There were standing there with their backs to it, getting warm, when Snape crossed the yard. Harry noticed at once that Snape was limping..." Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (US ed.) Chapter 11, page 181 Now the mystery is- Where is this courtyard, and why is this the only time we hear of it??? Ok I know it's not a big deal but I am really curious about this. In all the artistic interpretations I've seen very few that have a courtyard. So where is this place, and what happened to it in books 2,3, and 4???? Now there's a mystery for you. Scott From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Dec 1 00:57:43 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:57:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The wand order mystery... References: <90633m+49uv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A26F787.C5F2BBEF@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6254 Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > During our discussion on the editorial change relating to the figures > emerging from Voldemort's wand, I dropped a note to Bloomsbury. Here > is the reply: > > "Thank you for your e-mail. It is indeed an error which was spotted > by our editorial team in July and corrected in subsequent editions. > The difference in timing of corrections between editions, both our > own and US, is down to reprint timings. Hope this helps. > > Best wishes > Bloomsbury.com" > > Neil Very interesting. I note that they say it was spotted by their editorial team, not by the author. And no, speaking from personal experience, it doesn't surprise me a bit. My copyeditor did spot some doozies that I'd missed during all my rewrites. I haven't spotted any really egregious errors in my two books as published(I've been lucky) but I think I have the temperament that would make me likely to bang my head against the wall a lot if an error snuck in and I'd failed to catch it. Hope Jo is more self-forgiving. It's all the more embarrassing since there were MILLIONS of copies of the book with the error, not just a measly few thousand. Peg From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Fri Dec 1 02:15:36 2000 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:15:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter and the missing courtyard? References: <906v85+o2o3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2709C7.CA200CB2@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6255 Scott wrote: > Ok here is a mystery for you... > > "...The day before Harry's first Quidditch match the three of them > were out in the freezing courtyard during break and she had conjured > them up a bright blue fire that could be carried around in a jam > jar. There were standing there with their backs to it, getting warm, > when Snape crossed the yard. Harry noticed at once that Snape was > limping..." > > Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (US ed.) Chapter 11, page 181 > > Now the mystery is- Where is this courtyard, and why is this the only > time we hear of it??? > > > So where is this place, and what happened to it in books 2,3, and > 4???? > I think we do here about the courtyard in the second book. Something about Harry trying to duck out on Colin Creevey? Maybe I'm making this up... off to scan CoS to see if I'm right. drpam From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Fri Dec 1 02:30:44 2000 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:30:44 -0500 Subject: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw References: <906mrh+su2f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A270D54.1069E3A8@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6256 "Brandgwen G." wrote: > I'm not sure she does see this in herself, particularly toward the > start of the books. During the beginning of the PS, she is described > as a notorious goody-two-shoes. However, it is said that after the > incident with the Troll, she becomes far more relaxed about rule > breaking. I think that, deep down, she would always have liked to > have been a reckless rule breaker - someone who stands up for what > she believes in, in spite of the establishment. However, this isn't > in her nature. Recklessness scares her, as is seen by her reaction > to most of Harry and Ron's stupid ideas. However, having defeated > the Troll and lied about it, she realised that neither God nor > Dumbledore was going to strike her down, so she let up a bit. > But this is exactly my point as well. Deep down, she sees herself as a reckless rule breaker, etc., defender of the helpless (e.g. houseelves). Even her being a know-it-all is in some ways her attempts to provide the information, correction of errors etc. that she believes to be beneficial to her friends and classmates. Part of the issue in Hermione's magical education is for her to learn to loosen up a bit, to learn how to make her Gryffindor heart, if you will, work for the good of herself and others in a less abrasive way. A while back there was a thread about why the teachers would let Hermione take so many courses in her third year and I weighed in with the opinion that it was to teach her about her limits, so that she could learn to curb her tendency to overdo it. Maybe it also served to help her let her guard down a bit and to loosen up some. I think Hermione has done a remarkable amount of maturing over the series so far. More than Ron has. drpam From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 1 03:41:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:41:27 -0600 Subject: Movie Gaak Message-ID: <3A271DE6.D6F6594A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6257 Greeting to the list. More trivia from Amanda. A lady named Gail from Toronto posted this on the Alan Rickman Guestbook, and I lifted it for the Harry Potter info: My souvenir from a trip to the UK is always a cold, and a wet weekend there when we never really had a chance to get dry let alone warm has let it get well set in. However, just to add to Georgiana's note on Harry Potter locations, it appears that whatever else the movie offers, it will be a dream travelogue of the UK. As G has mentioned, Castle Combe is to be used (voted for many years the prettiest village in England and used, for those with very long memories, for the Rex Harrison 'Dr. Doolittle' movie). In addition, the teashop lady who finally took pity on the damp collection of us and gave us a lovely tea when all others were closing up - at four o'clock, teatime! - pointed out the house in Lacock which is also to be used. Lacock is a medieval village totally owned by the National Trust. --Amanda From atelecky at mit.edu Fri Dec 1 04:26:33 2000 From: atelecky at mit.edu (atelecky at mit.edu) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 04:26:33 -0000 Subject: The Muggle World (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90799p+kmob@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6258 What if the Muggle world really starts > > interacting with > > the Wizarding world? > > This is exactly what I was thinking. We already know that the Wizarding > world is divided. Manpower will be limited and Ministry workers (those not > on the Dark Side) are going to have their hands full fighting evil. There is > going to be little time for memory charms on Muggles. > > Going off on this....Muggle technology, the equivalent of magic, may have > some solutions that the Wizarding world could use -- and vise versa. Maybe > Muggles have something that could deflect the Avada Kedavra curse. A united > front could be a possibility. I really like the idea that the wizarding world may finally at least begin to come together with the Muggle world. I imagine that in three books JKR could only begin the process of bringing the two worlds together; it would be a bit much to ask that in only three more books none of which are to be as long as GoF she entirely restructure the "real" world as well as the wizarding world, and defeat Voldemort into the bargain. But it seems that the wizards miss a lot by segregating themselves from the Muggles; I cannot imagine that magic entirely takes the place of math, at least, and maybe even some of science. Who knows; if Muggle scientists and wizards got together they might even find out that magic actually ties in with science somewhere. And "magic" and "science" might not be so far different from one another. Hermione advised Harry in GoF that he might "get" the Summoning Charm if he understood the "theory" behind it. Snape had his students coming up with their own recipes for antidotes, so there must be some sort of rules and formulas to follow in potion making; you don't simply read the recipe and blindly follow it because you can't explain why it works. It seems that magic is no more mysterious or illogical to wizards than physics or chemistry is to us. And it actually makes some sense that it would be: after all, from the little I've studied so far of Newton's Laws and the laws of Thermodynamics etc., and unless I'm grossly mistaken, they aren't and can't really be "proven"; they simply are statements of things that people have observed to be consistently true in the world around them. They are something like axioms in math--they're given to be true, and given that they are true, you can prove that various theories follow from them. The best that you can do as far as proof goes is just endlessly testing them; this is no more effective a "proof" than trying to prove a mathematical theorem by putting millions of different specific cases/numbers into your formula/theorem with a computer--there are infintely many more to be proven no matter how many millions you have already proved. And its not like you can ever say WHY these things are true. They are just true based on your experience of the world that you live in. They seem intuitively reasonable; if you'd grown up watching your parents cook dinner in three minutes with a wand or apparate home from work every day, different things would of course seem entirely normal and sensible to you than if you'd grown up with a Muggle family. I really wonder what Arithmancy is like- I don't imagine that wizards can simply tap a theorem or math problem with their wand and so automatically prove it or solve it. Perhaps wands and magic serve the same sort of function as calculators and computers; they have certain limitations but can be useful tools. (I'm imagining Arithmancy tests where the "graph" and "integrate" spells are not allowed, or you may only use your standard four-function spells. TI-92 or above spells are not allowed. And your wand's memory must be erased before the test :). Then again, maybe they only did that at my high school. Does that sound familiar to anyone else?) There are plenty of problems that magic doesn't solve or apply to in any way. But perhaps wizards have some entirely different math that they need to solve equations in Potions or Transfiguration; I believe that Calculus came from a practical need to understand concepts like instantaneous velocity in Physics--maybe there are similar problems which arose in wizarding disciplines and led to some similarly revolutionary solutions? Perhaps magic does come into solving at least these sort of math problems in some curious manner? One of the things I notice in the Harry Potter books is that JKR makes you fairly comfortable with all of the spells that play a major role in the plot, rather than trying to pull some spell that will suddenly solve everything or explain everything out of a hat at the last minute. We encountered Polyjuice Potion before Crouch jr. ever used it, so that when we did, it seemed familiar and reasonable almost as it might to a wizard used to the limitations of magic as well as the possible solutions to any problem that magic might provide. Well, I am off to do some Muggle Physics and Calculus problem sets. Alexandra From kathleen at carr.org Fri Dec 1 04:47:29 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:47:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter and the missing courtyard? Message-ID: <200012010511.eB15BYU18968@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 6259 >Now the mystery is- Where is this courtyard, and why is this the only >time we hear of it??? Actually, this isn't the last we hear of it: Harry, Ron, and Hermione are in the courtyard in CoS when Colin Creevey begs to take Harry's picture and Malfoy and Lockhart come along. From CoS American edition, p. 96: "They finished lunch and went outside into the overcast courtyard. Hermione sat down on a stone step and buried her nose in Voyages with Vampires again..." Still don't know where it is though... Kathy From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 05:39:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 05:39:19 -0000 Subject: Ok, I'll bite (really stupid OT question) In-Reply-To: <3A248549.84AF4CC7@texas.net> Message-ID: <907di7+7945@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6260 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I have Netscape and have not figured out if it'll do [sig lines] > yet. Netscape Messenger. Edit on the tool bar. Preferences on the Edit drop-down menu. Click on the plus sign + of Mail & Newsgroups to see its subtopics. Click on Identity. One of the options is Signature File. You-uns hardly ever see *my* sig because I usually post and reply from the egroups Web site. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 05:55:52 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 05:55:52 -0000 Subject: A Hogwarts education In-Reply-To: <902bit+vehf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <907eh8+segg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6261 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, atelecky at m... wrote: > Incidentally, I haven't ever seen any evidence of any education in > music or art at Hogwarts--nothing like a band or an orchestra. I bet that art and music are taught in the form of clubs. We haven't heard anything about clubs at Hogwarts except Lockhart's dreadful attempt to start a dueling club. The dueling club began a notice was put on the bulletin board in the Great Hall, announcing time and place of its first meeting, and people from all different Houses attended that meeting. I bet that anyone, or anyone who got a staff member as adult sponsor, can put up a sign and thus start a club. I bet there are many different clubs, which is one way that students from different Houses get to know each other. Us readers don't see these clubs because Harry is too busy with Quidditch practise, classes, and saving the world to join clubs, but for all I know, Ron is a star at the chess club. Okay, now let's speculate if the kids in the Symphony Orchestra club have to teach themselves to play their instruments and to conduct, or have to make do with whatever staff member had a hobby of conducting orchestras, or are they allowed to have a volunteer music teacher from Hogsmeade and/or to raise money to hire what they need in the way of music teachers, conductors, soloists? > >There are probably all sorts of interesting possibilities in the > arts opened up by magic. Architects could completely disregard > worries about structural stability; one simple charm and you could > have any kind of crazy building stand up. The Burrow!!! > Not much of a thread, but can anyone think of some other things > Hogwarts might be lacking in? Right now its a bit of a > one-dimensional school--there's no philosophy or literature-- It seems to me that there was a time in Muggle history when 'education' was only about Latin and Greek language, literature, and philosophy, and all other subjects were learned on one's own or by apprenticeships. > I wonder if there is much if any overlap between the > Muggle world and the wizarding world. There IS enough overlap that enough Muggles and Magics meet and marry to have a number of 'half-and-half' students. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 06:02:49 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:02:49 -0000 Subject: Wormatail (was: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw In-Reply-To: <903eio+3h1n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <907eu9+cju6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6262 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Maureen L" wrote: > I was thinking about Wormtail for instance. Perhaps he will > surprise everyone and do something brave - after all he does owe a > life-debt to Harry. I'm thinking that Peter must have been pretty brave as a boy, contrary to so many fanfics that show him as a cowardly child. McGonagall said he was fat and little and not particularly clever (smart, in USAn), but none of that rules out jumping off the highest tower on a dare, or getting into a physical fight with two guys bigger than you (Neville vs Crabbe and Goyle), or asking the most feared teacher for extra help with a difficult subject.... He *couldn't* have been all that cowardly and become an Animagus, since they've all had their brains filled with warnings of how dangrously wrong the Animagic spell can go. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 06:05:38 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:05:38 -0000 Subject: Transportation (Was: Wizard Schools and Transportation In-Reply-To: <20001129224208.17185.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <907f3i+caa3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6263 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > Portkey = Taxi. It gives the same benefit as apparation, except it > has to be arranged beforehand, as far as I can tell. As a resident of a civilised country, I would not do business with a taxi that grabbed me violently by a string inside my stomach and pulled or flung me through (outer/inner space) so that I landed with a thud that knocked me off my feet. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 06:11:14 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:11:14 -0000 Subject: Separation from Muggles (was: A Hogwarts education In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <907fe2+t5lk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6264 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > Magical education almost seems like a sneaky way to keep wizards > and witches segregated from Muggle society. Not segregated enough to prevent intermarriage. > have no valid driver's license, be unable to provide previous work > references or school records, etc etc etc... > Essentially unemployable in the Muggle communities. Wizardry makes forging documents, AND their reflection in distant files or computer databases, trivially easy. Maybe it also provides ways to learn Muggle skills, such as driving a car or speaking nother language or doing Calculus, instantaneously or overnight. Suppose there were a Potion that would give truth to the old school child theory that if you went to sleep with your head on an open textbook instead of a pillow, you would wake in the morning knowing everything in that textbook? From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 06:17:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:17:19 -0000 Subject: The wand order mystery... In-Reply-To: <90633m+49uv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <907fpf+thev@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6265 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Here is the reply: > > "Thank you for your e-mail. It is indeed an error which was > spotted by our editorial team in July and corrected in subsequent > editions. "An error spotted by their editorial team in July" ... but did JKR agree that it was an error? "and corrected in subsequent editions" ... but did JKR approve the correction? From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 1 08:15:20 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 08:15:20 -0000 Subject: GoF: why didn't Sirius know about Snape? Message-ID: <907mmo+ua01@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6266 (IIRC) While Sirius was in Azkaban, he heard plenty from the convicted Death Eaters crying out in their nightmares. He heard enough to say that Peter was hiding from his former colleagues, who harbored unkindly feelings toward him for having led their Dark Lord to destruction. He heard enough to say that they were not happy that Karkaroff had gained his release by incriminating others. But he said that he had no idea whether Snape had been a Death Eater, only that he used to hang out with people who became Death Eaters. Karkaroff knew that Snape had been a Death Eater so surely other prisoners would have known it, too. Dumbledore said in open court that Snape had turned against the Dark Side and been a spy for Our Side, how come none of the convicts knew that and mentioned it along with Peter and Karkaroff? From morine10 at aol.com Fri Dec 1 13:24:26 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 08:24:26 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Separation from Muggles (was: A Hogwarts education Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6267 In a message dated Fri, 1 Dec 2000 1:42:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Rita Winston" writes: << --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: >Not segregated enough to prevent intermarriage. I agree. However, I don't think it's all that common. Just enough to keep the wizards from dying out. And those Muggles that do know of the Wizarding community seem to keep it pretty quiet. On one side you have the Dursleys who don't want anyone to know about their relationship with that world because of it being odd and different. Then you have those that keep it quiet I would think just to protect themselves and their loved ones. >Wizardry makes forging documents, AND their reflection >in distant >files or computer databases, trivially easy. Maybe it >also provides >ways to learn Muggle skills, such as driving a car or >speaking >nother language or doing Calculus, instantaneously or >overnight. >Suppose there were a Potion that would give truth to >the old school >child theory that if you went to sleep with your head >on an open >textbook instead of a pillow, you would wake in the >morning knowing >everything in that textbook? Magic can't solve everything, I think we have learned that. I don't know how easy it would be to charm computers and Muggle technology since we know that they tend not to work all that well in the presence of magic. I would also like to think that you would need to know a little something about how the technology works before you can cast a spell to manipulate it. Look at Arthur's car. Sure he made it fly, but it still couldn't handle the long trip to Hogwarts. We Muggles can forge documents and cheat on tests just as easily, but most people don't. People have ethics and morals that keep them from doing wrong - in both worlds. -Mo *************************************************** "Isn't there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?" -Charlie Brown From morine10 at aol.com Fri Dec 1 13:26:59 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 08:26:59 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Transportation (Was: Wizard Schools and Transportation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6268 In a message dated Fri, 1 Dec 2000 1:06:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Rita Winston" writes: << --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > Portkey = Taxi. It gives the same benefit as apparation, except it > has to be arranged beforehand, as far as I can tell. As a resident of a civilised country, I would not do business with a taxi that grabbed me violently by a string inside my stomach and pulled or flung me through (outer/inner space) so that I landed with a thud that knocked me off my feet. I don't know. My experiences in taxi cabs haven't been much better than that -actually I would say worse. At least a Portkey ride would be over and done with in a few seconds. -Mo "Isn't there anyone that can tell me what Christmas is all about?" - Charlie Brown -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------- -> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com >> From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 1 13:57:41 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:57:41 -0000 Subject: Remus Lupin (song) Message-ID: <908aol+b2it@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6269 Remus Lupin (to the tune of Feelin' Groovy) When it comes to fightin' Dark Arts Here's a guy who's a virtual Mozart Whenever Boggarts begin a-swoopin' You can direct a call to Remus Lupin The wizard world is not too philanthropic When it comes to matters lycanthropic But despite Slytherin and Snape's a-snoopin' They'll never get the best of Remus Lupin If he can just avoid that silver bullet He has a destiny, and he'll fulfill it He may be gone for now, but he's regroupin' We have not seen the last of Remus Lupin - CMC (putting the Tin Pan back in Diagon) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Dec 1 16:01:54 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:01:54 -0000 Subject: The wand order mystery... In-Reply-To: <3A26F787.C5F2BBEF@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <908i1i+jbfl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6270 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > It's all the more embarrassing since there were MILLIONS of copies of the > book with the error, not just a measly few thousand. I'm with Peg on this - and I cannot BELIEVE that there hasn't been ANY press on this issue as yet. I mean, there was an article on Reuters about the release of the book in france & the fact that JKR's writing book 5 - but since the France version just came out, can anyone why reads French get a copy of it & let us know who comes out first in that version? (and whether they have any "dialect" for Fleur or Maxime - on that, I'm also curious!). I also went back & checked my Limited Edition copy of GoF - I have a first edition of that (it's the purple thing with the gold-edged pages) and it has James first, then Lily (i.e. the original order) - I wonder why they didn't do it "correctly" in that - they should've been able to (or at least it sounds like they knew about it well before the Limited Edition was released in October - why didn't they just destroy all the copies they'd printed of the Limited Edition & do it "right"? From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 1 16:44:52 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:44:52 +0000 Subject: Film locations... Cotswolds Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001201164452.00729024@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 6271 Over on HPTour Rita the Catlady reproduced Amanda's recent post and asked: >Can anyone tell me where are Castle Combe and Lacock? (They are >mentioned in the following reprint from HPfG.) Here's some more info:- The villages of Castle Coombe and Laycock are east of Bath, located in the Cotswolds. According to my deep knowledge of English villagery (yeah, right) Laycock is indeed a National Trust village and played the role of Meryton in a recent BBC version of "Pride and Prejudice" to rave reviews. Nearby Castle Coombe is often described as a 'biscuit tin' village, which is, I assume, a variant of 'chocolate box' and not at all similar to 'cookie jar'. It looks lovely - here's a picture:- http://community.webshots.com/photo/3325935/3326172fCSuUWYfrG Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From amaryllis05 at web.de Fri Dec 1 16:55:41 2000 From: amaryllis05 at web.de (amaryllis05 at web.de) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:55:41 -0000 Subject: GoF: why didn't Sirius know about Snape? In-Reply-To: <907mmo+ua01@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <908l6d+6on4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6272 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > (IIRC) While Sirius was in Azkaban, he heard plenty from the convicted > Death Eaters crying out in their nightmares. He heard enough to say > that Peter was hiding from his former colleagues, who harbored > unkindly feelings toward him for having led their Dark Lord to > destruction. He heard enough to say that they were not happy that > Karkaroff had gained his release by incriminating others. But he said that he had no idea whether Snape had been a Death Eater, only > that he used to hang out with people who became Death Eaters. > Karkaroff knew that Snape had been a Death Eater so surely other > prisoners would have known it, too. That`s possible but we cannot know for sure that the prisoners who knew about Snape were the ones in the cells neighbouring Sirius`. I don`t think that the prisoners in Azkaban are allowed to move a lot, not to mention to visit other cells. Sirius only heard the people crying out in their sleep. So they must have been near him. Other people in other cells very possibly knew about Snape, but Sirius couldn`t hear them if they talked about him. Dumbledore said in open court > that Snape had turned against the Dark Side and been a spy for > Our Side, how come none of the convicts knew that and mentioned > it along with Peter and Karkaroff? I understand that these trials were held when Voldemort was already destroyed. Dumbledore had to know about Snapes true identity, but not any of the others. Otherwise Snape would have been assasinated long before. I guess that the mentioned trial happened at a time when the other convicts (and Sirius) already were in Azkaban. As for Peter, we can guess that he went into hiding just after Voldemorts fall and probably didn`t follow every trial or the "Daily Prophet". Maybe it wasn`t even mentioned in the newspaper because none ever heard of Severus Snape before or, more likely, the court wanted to keep it secret to protect Snape from revenge of some Death Eaters still in freedom. Cheers, Susanne From joym999 at aol.com Fri Dec 1 17:10:27 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 17:10:27 -0000 Subject: Transportation (Was: Wizard Schools and Transportation In-Reply-To: <907f3i+caa3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <908m23+vtj2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6273 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? > wrote: > > > Portkey = Taxi. It gives the same benefit as apparation, except it > > has to be arranged beforehand, as far as I can tell. > > As a resident of a civilised country, I would not do business with a > taxi that grabbed me violently by a string inside my stomach and > pulled or flung me through (outer/inner space) so that I landed with > a thud that knocked me off my feet. I guess I dont live in a civilized country, because I have had lots of taxi rides that could be described pretty much by Ritas above description. While the taxis in my current locale (DC) are pretty sedate, in my city of origin (NYC) they can be pretty wild. And I can remember a few rides in Rio de Janiero, Rome and Mexico City which make a portkey seem tame by comparison. I guess New York City, Brazil, Italy and Mexico are all uncivilized countries, as I have long suspected. --Joywitch From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Fri Dec 1 18:37:58 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:37:58 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The wand order mystery... References: <908i1i+jbfl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004501c05bcc$c26db6c0$a008063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6274 can anyone why reads French get a copy of it & let us know who comes out first in that version? (and whether they have any "dialect" for Fleur or Maxime - on that, I'm also curious!). Yes, it's on its way to me. Will let you know as and when. Michelle From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 1 20:47:24 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 20:47:24 -0000 Subject: Transportation (Was: Wizard Schools and Transportation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9092os+srgg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6275 *Somebody wrote- " Portkey = Taxi. It gives the same benefit as apparation, except it has to be arranged beforehand, as far as I can tell." *Rita wrote- "As a resident of a civilised country, I would not do business with a taxi that grabbed me violently by a string inside my stomach and pulled or flung me through (outer/inner space) so that I landed with a thud that knocked me off my feet." *Mo wrote- "I don't know. My experiences in taxi cabs haven't been much better than that -actually I would say worse. At least a Portkey ride would be over and done with in a few seconds. I agree! I can distinctly remember a taxi in Paris that made me feel considerably worse than the effects of a portkey. Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 1 20:58:50 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 14:58:50 -0600 Subject: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw References: <906mrh+su2f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A28110A.EFA671C0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6276 Hi - "Brandgwen G." wrote: > This, however, doesn't necessarily mean that cleverness and knowledge > is what she values most. Certainly, she studies a great deal, but I > think that is an easy way for her to distinguish herself. Goodness > knows, she shows off about it enough (as much as I love her, > sometimes I wish Ron would just go to the library, borrow "Hogwart's: > a History", and hit her over the head with it). And, there I was agreeing with all your points up until here, Gwen! I guess I'm just being obtuse, but I don't see why having the right answers and using those answers to help solve problems is "showing off." Yes, she does mention "Hogwarts: A History" alot, but I don't think she'd be displeased if Ron or Harry suddenly referenced that book when they were thinking about doing something. She'd be thrilled that they'd read it, not upset that they'd upstaged her moment of glory. IMO anyway. I liked all your other points Gwen! I don't think I ever said welcome -- I know you joined up relatively recently, and I always enjoy your posts. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 1 21:03:35 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:03:35 -0600 Subject: The wand order mystery... References: <908i1i+jbfl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A281227.EEAFCEE6@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6277 Hi -- heidi tandy wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > It's all the more embarrassing since there were MILLIONS of copies > of the > > book with the error, not just a measly few thousand. > > I'm with Peg on this - and I cannot BELIEVE that there hasn't been > ANY press on this issue as yet. I know -- the original mystery/error merited CNN coverage, but yet noone in the media has picked up on this? I'm with whoever asked if JKR had *approved* these editorial changes -- it *still* just doesn't look like the way she'd have rewritten that scene to me. If *I* were her, I'd have opted to come up with some creative explanation for the reversed order in a later book rather than have that change go through as they've done it. > I also went back & checked my Limited Edition copy of GoF - I have a > first edition of that (it's the purple thing with the gold-edged > pages) and it has James first, then Lily (i.e. the original order) - > I wonder why they didn't do it "correctly" in that - they should've > been able to (or at least it sounds like they knew about it well > before the Limited Edition was released in October - why didn't they > just destroy all the copies they'd printed of the Limited Edition & > do it "right"? I suspect the Limited Edition was already set at the same time as the original 3.8 printing of GoF -- it just took longer to produce because of the cover, page quality, binding, etc. Just a guess. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From andrea at noembromation.com.br Fri Dec 1 21:34:39 2000 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea Bonfanti) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:34:39 -0000 Subject: The Creevey brothers Message-ID: <9095hg+i0pg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6278 Hi, everyone! I've been lurking here for a couple of months now, and I really enjoy the discussions. I've just come up with something, I don't know if you've talked about it before, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive. Was it just me, or did anyone else found it strange that Colin Creevey had a brother who also turned out to be a wizard? I mean, what are the odds? They come from a Muggle family, so, wouldn't it be rare enough for ONE of the kids to be a wizard to start with? Or is it like a recessive gene or something? Do you have any thoughts about this? Regards from Brazil, Andrea From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:00:09 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:00:09 -0000 Subject: Movie Gaak Message-ID: <007a01c05bed$0bcaf100$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6279 Hi all In case you missed me... I am still around, just not getting much time to read the mail! >Castle Combe is to be used >house in Lacock which is also to be used. Don't suppose there are any more details than that are there? I fancy a trip down to the area with my camera... then you can all see what the area is like. Would be nice to have a picture of 'the house' but a little impractical to take a picture of every house in the village. I wonder which teashop they went to! Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:02:43 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:02:43 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The wand order mystery... Message-ID: <007b01c05bed$12471900$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6280 >> "Thank you for your e-mail. It is indeed an error which was spotted >> by our editorial team in July and corrected in subsequent editions. >> The difference in timing of corrections between editions, both our >> own and US, is down to reprint timings. Hope this helps. >> Best wishes >> Bloomsbury.com" No Blommsbury it does not help very much. I think we really need to ask Jo for an official comment on this one. After all, she is the only person who knows the real wand order. Only problem is... I've lost her fax number. It's annoying me... I could get a quick response with a fax - a letter will just sit and wait to be opened for ages. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:05:10 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:05:10 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry Potter on the Radio Message-ID: <007c01c05bed$143d1ca0$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6281 >IMO I like Stephen Fry better, and now all I need >to do is actually order the tapes... Would it help if there was something (or someone) which compliled a list of outlets which could supply the tapes at the best possible price? Maybe even... if enough people wanted them... we could secure our own batch from the manufacturer direct. Anyone fancy setting up a HPforgrownups Shop? Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:10:44 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:10:44 -0000 Subject: Not quite Hogwarts but... Message-ID: <007d01c05bed$152818e0$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6282 >"So, what do we think about boarding schools, people? Personally, I >am fascinated by them, and part of the appeal of the HP books to me >is the same as the appeal that Tom Browns Schools Day and other books >about English boarding schools have always had for me." I love them... at the moment I visit a boarding school once a week, it's in Windsor - just below the Queens castle. The school has both boarders and day pupils... which is quite common in the UK these days - though there must be some boarding only schools around still. One thing I notice about the school is the very friendly attitude. Everyone knows everyone else... regardless if they are in the class or not. All the teachers know all the pupils... and they even seem to know the best place to find a pupil who is late finishing a class. That's another thing about boarding schools - although they work to a timetable... it is more flexiable than an average schools - Jack is supposed to finish school at 4pm on a Wednesday (he's a day pupil) yet I have never known him to finish class at 4pm... often it's 4.30 by the time he comes out. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:16:36 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:16:36 -0000 Subject: HP on the radio Message-ID: <007e01c05bed$15e85ba0$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6283 >As it is the BBC there will be no adverts, except for ones advertising other >programmes of theirs. I would guess that they will do an nearly >uninterrupted, if not totally uninterrupted, broadcast. Now all I have to do >is arrange to be in that day! According to what the BBC printed on their website... Christopher is insisting that it is to be unabridged, and read in one go. Thus, I don't think the BBC will even be able to run any ads for their own programes. >Dee wrote: "On another subject, I heard about Andrew in Kent. I hope no one >who's there is being floated away!" >I must have missed this. It keeps raining here, but the river is quite a bit >lower than it was a few weeks ago. Minor flooding on one of the roads I take to work this morning... but nothing serious. Even Surrey has had it's fair share of rain recently. Nick (PS. I've got some pics of Privet drive, without the camera crew and crane, if anyone is interested.) From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Dec 1 23:23:29 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:23:29 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Creevey brothers References: <9095hg+i0pg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000a01c05bed$b934dcc0$558e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 6284 ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrea Bonfanti To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:34 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Creevey brothers > Hi, everyone! > > I've been lurking here for a couple of months now, and I really enjoy > the discussions. I've just come up with something, I don't know if > you've talked about it before, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive. > > Was it just me, or did anyone else found it strange that Colin > Creevey had a brother who also turned out to be a wizard? I mean, > what are the odds? They come from a Muggle family, so, wouldn't it be > rare enough for ONE of the kids to be a wizard to start with? Or is > it like a recessive gene or something? Do you have any thoughts about > this? > > Regards from Brazil, > > Andrea Hello, Yes, I also thought it was a bit weird for a Muggle family to produce two wizard kids. I mean, one is common enough, but two is stretching it. Hence my theory. Mr. Creevey the milkman is Muggle, but his wife's a witch. Or rather, was. After all, Colin says his father was surprised to find his son was a wizard. So maybe Mrs. Creevey either died or left her husband before she could tell him she was a witch. I would suggest she was killed by Voldemort but given Dennis's age that's unlikely. Death Eater who wasn't tracked down until after Voldy's demise? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not, actually, DEs don't tend to go for Muggles as spouses. Jinx From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:25:05 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:25:05 -0000 Subject: Philosophers Stone - Audio Tape Message-ID: <008001c05bed$f2c2bfc0$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6285 Todays best prices on Philosophers Stone Audio Cassette read by Stephen Fry are as follows: Shops are listed only if they have stock available Internet Bookshop - 14.29 plus postage www.bookshop.co.uk Student Book World - 17.58 plus postage www.studentbookworld.com Alphabet Street - 19.78 - www.alphabetstreet.infront.co.uk Depending on where you are of coups... will depend on the final price you pay. For UK Mainland residents... Internet Bookshop are the cheapest including postage (16.78 total) Nick. From terzarima at earthlink.net Fri Dec 1 23:27:13 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:27:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP on the radio References: <007e01c05bed$15e85ba0$33997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A2833D1.AA53DF49@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6286 Can we listen to this on RealAudio??? Will it be available later for people to download? Hoping, Suzanne From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 1 23:29:21 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:29:21 -0000 Subject: HP on the radio Message-ID: <00a401c05bee$8a576020$33997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6287 >Can we listen to this on RealAudio??? Will it be available later for people to >download? >Hoping, >Suzanne I've asked the BBC about this... no reply as yet. I very much doubt if it will be available to download, as Cover To Cover http://www.covertocover.co.uk will still want to be selling the tapes for years to come. Nick From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Dec 2 00:05:40 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:05:40 -0000 Subject: The wand order mystery... In-Reply-To: <3A281227.EEAFCEE6@swbell.net> Message-ID: <909eck+ofph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6288 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: "If *I* were her, I'd have opted to come up with some creative explanation for the reversed order in a later book rather than have that change go through as they've done it." My thoughts exactly, Penny! I was rather disappointed with the rewrite when I read it a couple of weeks ago. I wish JKR had written her way out of the mistake instead of changing it afterwards. (That is if she did do the rewrite) However, I have decided to stick with my personal belief that Harry's inherent magic somehow changed his mum's and dad's order out of the wand. To me, after 4 months of reading James then Lily, reading the "correct" version seemed wrong. Trina From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 02:44:21 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:44:21 -0000 Subject: Movie Gaak In-Reply-To: <007a01c05bed$0bcaf100$33997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <909nm5+f5n9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6289 > >Castle Combe is to be used > >house in Lacock which is also to be used. > > Don't suppose there are any more details than that are there? I fancy a > trip down to the area with my camera... then you can all see what the area > is like. Would be nice to have a picture of 'the house' but a little > impractical to take a picture of every house in the village. I wonder > which teashop they went to! Hmmm, did I miss something or is everyone else wondering what they might use this for too? I was thinking Hogsmeade but we won't se that until PoA...unless if there is a scene where hagrid wins the dragon egg. Is that in the Three Broomsticks or The Leaky Cauldron? Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 03:03:00 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 03:03:00 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter and the missing courtyard? In-Reply-To: <200012010511.eB15BYU18968@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <909op4+9jgi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6290 > >Now the mystery is- Where is this courtyard, and why is this the only > >time we hear of it??? > > > Actually, this isn't the last we hear of it: Harry, Ron, and Hermione are in > the courtyard in CoS when Colin Creevey begs to take Harry's picture and > Malfoy and Lockhart come along. From CoS American edition, p. 96: "They > finished lunch and went outside into the overcast courtyard. Hermione sat > down on a stone step and buried her nose in Voyages with Vampires again..." > Still don't know where it is though... > Ok, Alright, so I messed up. But hearing about it twice still isn't enough for me. (I guess I'm just being difficult.) The fact that there is a courtyard at Hogwarts does remain though. Only now I want to know- is Hogwarts built around a central courtyard or is it not a major feature of the building. My guess is not since it isn't mentioned that much. Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 03:03:35 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 03:03:35 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter and the missing courtyard? In-Reply-To: <200012010511.eB15BYU18968@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <909oq7+c4jh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6291 > >Now the mystery is- Where is this courtyard, and why is this the only > >time we hear of it??? > > > Actually, this isn't the last we hear of it: Harry, Ron, and Hermione are in > the courtyard in CoS when Colin Creevey begs to take Harry's picture and > Malfoy and Lockhart come along. From CoS American edition, p. 96: "They > finished lunch and went outside into the overcast courtyard. Hermione sat > down on a stone step and buried her nose in Voyages with Vampires again..." > Still don't know where it is though... > Ok, Alright, so I messed up. But hearing about it twice still isn't enough for me. (I guess I'm just being difficult.) The fact that there is a courtyard at Hogwarts does remain though. Only now I want to know- is Hogwarts built around a central courtyard or is it not a major feature of the building. My guess is not since it isn't mentioned that much. Scott From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 2 05:09:20 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:09:20 -0000 Subject: Movie Gaak In-Reply-To: <909nm5+f5n9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90a060+6pbi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6292 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > > > >Castle Combe is to be used > > >house in Lacock which is also to be used. > > > > Don't suppose there are any more details than that are there? I > fancy a > > trip down to the area with my camera... then you can all see what > the area > > is like. Would be nice to have a picture of 'the house' but a > little > > impractical to take a picture of every house in the village. I > wonder > > which teashop they went to! > > > Hmmm, did I miss something or is everyone else wondering what they > might use this for too Diagon Alley? From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 2 05:39:48 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 23:39:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Separation from Muggles (was: A Hogwarts education References: <907fe2+t5lk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A288B24.E59264BD@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6293 Rita Winston wrote: > Suppose there were a Potion that would give truth to the old school > child theory that if you went to sleep with your head on an open > textbook instead of a pillow, you would wake in the morning knowing > everything in that textbook? Well, in THAT case, what's the point of Hogwarts? Peg From recla at magick.net Sat Dec 2 05:43:05 2000 From: recla at magick.net (Prof. Dumbledore) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:43:05 -0000 Subject: More Harry Potter "Collectables?" Message-ID: <90a259+blro@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6294 Well, I was off traveling again, this time up in the Philadelphia area. I wandered around one of the larger shopping Malls (Deptford Mall in Deptford NJ) and found a whole bunch of HP goodies. One store had all the new HP Christmas Ornaments, from Kurt S. Adler company, plus another had all these interesting figures and from another company called Enesco. They have some little picture viewers built into the figures. B.Dalton Books had some wizard hats that are being put out by Elope. (www.elopehats.com). Also found a students planner that had 52 pages of artwork of various HP topics. Got one for Diann.. Watch for "Collectors Value Guide" of "Harry Potter Collectables". It has photos of much of the various items you can get, as well as book covers, names of companies who have agreements with WB, etc. It has some pages on names, history of HP, and various receipes for Rock Cakes, Spotted Dog, Treacle Tarts, and Trifles. They have a web page and message board on HP. (www.collectorsquest.com) Check your local shopping Mall.. Found most stuff at Store of Knowledge, and B. Dalton Book sellers. Good luck on finding some of this stuff. Dennis From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 2 05:46:23 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 23:46:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Technology/Magic (was Re: The Muggle World (long)) References: <90799p+kmob@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A288CAF.D2A12E55@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6295 atelecky at mit.edu wrote: > Hermione advised Harry in GoF that he might "get" the Summoning Charm > if he understood the "theory" behind it. Snape had his students coming > up with their own recipes for antidotes, so there must be some sort of > rules and formulas to follow in potion making; you don't simply read > the recipe and blindly follow it because you can't explain why it > works. It seems that magic is no more mysterious or illogical to > wizards than physics or chemistry is to us. And it actually makes some > sense that it would be: after all, from the little I've studied so far > of Newton's Laws and the laws of Thermodynamics etc., and unless I'm > grossly mistaken, they aren't and can't really be "proven"; they > simply are statements of things that people have observed to be > consistently true in the world around them. They are something like > axioms in math--they're given to be true, and given that they are > true, you can prove that various theories follow from them. I've mentioned this essay umpteen times before, but once again it's germaine to this discussion so I'm mentioning it again, for the benefit of new people to the list: http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html This discusses magic as an alternative technology to the technology we know (and the author of the essay points out that not too long ago, magic and technology were considered to be more closely linked than they are today). Peg From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 2 06:47:16 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 06:47:16 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Movie Gaak Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001202064716.007236c8@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 6296 Further to my earlier post on Castle Coombe and Laycock (or Lacock) Village, I've found the following info on Lacock Abbey. Perhaps parts of this will be used for Hogwarts' scenes? http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/scripts/nthandbook.dll?ACTION=PROPERTY&Prope rtyId=319 Perhaps Castle Coombe will serve as Little Whinging during the early scenes... Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 2 07:13:11 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:13:11 +0000 Subject: More on Lacock Village/Abbey Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001202071311.00718e68@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 6297 Just been surfing around, as you do... Lacock Village sounds like an amazing place and on the site below there's a picture of the Abbey. IMO, this place would make a great Hogwarts (exterior shot). It also has a Medieval garden, which might serve as a location for Professor Sprout's lessons. http://www.yourguide.org.uk/lacock/ Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 2 07:30:12 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 07:30:12 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie Gaak Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001202073012.0071ebd8@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 6298 Okay. One more thing on these village locations for the film. Here's a news item on Castle Combe (or Coombe, it's hard to tell which is correct), which seems to confirm that filming has taken place there: http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/archive/2000/10/19/chip_news_local7ZM.html Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 2 11:33:17 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:33:17 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo Message-ID: <90amlt+2s2d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6299 Hi all Just to let you know... I'm sending a Christmast card to Jo & Jessica. I've added that it's from us all - so Jo knows we care about her! If you want to send her a card yourself... send it to: J.K. Rowling PO Box 27036 Edinburgh EH10 5WB SCOTLAND To get there in time... it will need to be in International Air Post by 12th December at the latest. Some countries may have an earlier date than this, so check with your postal service. Nick. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Dec 1 18:13:14 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:13:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Film locations... Cotswolds/Catswold References: <1.5.4.32.20001201164452.00729024@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <005a01c05bc2$60947920$9fdd5d18@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6300 Neil, you posted the below, but I couldn't help to see the similarities between the two worlds (the latter the book by Shirley which I recommended some time ago). What does -wold mean as an ending for all those linguist folks on the list? The coincidence is a bit unusual, so I am assuming that they both are derived from the same source. (if you need more information about the book, email me--don't want to spoil the book for folks; it's a great book!) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Ward" To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:44 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Film locations... Cotswolds > Over on HPTour Rita the Catlady reproduced Amanda's recent post and asked: > > >Can anyone tell me where are Castle Combe and Lacock? (They are > >mentioned in the following reprint from HPfG.) > > Here's some more info:- > > The villages of Castle Coombe and Laycock are east of Bath, located in the > Cotswolds. > > According to my deep knowledge of English villagery (yeah, right) Laycock is > indeed a National Trust village and played the role of Meryton in a recent > BBC version of "Pride and Prejudice" to rave reviews. Nearby Castle Coombe > is often described as a 'biscuit tin' village, which is, I assume, a variant > of 'chocolate box' and not at all similar to 'cookie jar'. It looks lovely > - here's a picture:- > > http://community.webshots.com/photo/3325935/3326172fCSuUWYfrG > > Neil > > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > ***************************************** > > "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, > the car rumbled off into the darkness, > its rear lights blazing angrily" > > [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] > > ***************************************** > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From terzarima at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 13:36:31 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 08:36:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Movie Gaak References: <90a060+6pbi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A28FADF.64144E2C@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6301 Hogesmeade-- Remember Hagrid goes off there in the evenings to play cards at some tavern, where he meets the unknown person with a dragon's egg.... Also what about flashback scenes with his parents? Godric's Hollow perhaps? --Suzanne Joywitch wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " > wrote: > > > > > > > >Castle Combe is to be used > > > >house in Lacock which is also to be used. > > > > > > Don't suppose there are any more details than that are there? I > > fancy a > > > trip down to the area with my camera... then you can all see what > > the area > > > is like. Would be nice to have a picture of 'the house' but a > > little > > > impractical to take a picture of every house in the village. I > > wonder > > > which teashop they went to! > > > > > > Hmmm, did I miss something or is everyone else wondering what they > > might use this for too > > Diagon Alley? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 2 13:43:00 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:43:00 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Movie Gaak References: <90a060+6pbi@eGroups.com> <3A28FADF.64144E2C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000e01c05c65$ca76a7c0$c6078cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6302 > Hogesmeade-- Remember Hagrid goes off there in the evenings to play cards at > some tavern, where he meets the unknown person with a dragon's egg.... > > Also what about flashback scenes with his parents? Godric's Hollow perhaps? > Actually, this brings up another question that's been floating aroud my head ( please forgive me if this has already been discussed ) but what if anything could be cut out from the book to make the movie fit into the two hour, long enough for kids to sit still for category ? Michelle From atelecky at mit.edu Sat Dec 2 15:57:27 2000 From: atelecky at mit.edu (atelecky at mit.edu) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 15:57:27 -0000 Subject: Technology/Magic (was Re: The Muggle World (long)) In-Reply-To: <3A288CAF.D2A12E55@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <90b657+drfi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6303 > > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html > > This discusses magic as an alternative technology to the technology we know > (and the author of the essay points out that not too long ago, magic and > technology were considered to be more closely linked than they are today). > > Peg Thanks for posting that link--it's a neat essay. Aside from the discussions of the book on lists such as this one, I haven't seen many, or really any, written about the Potter books. (that is, other than those which simply deal with the fact of their considerable commercial success or some one of the various controversies about them) Alexandra From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 16:27:42 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:27:42 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo In-Reply-To: <90amlt+2s2d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90b7tu+ddop@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6304 > Just to let you know... I'm sending a Christmast card to Jo & > Jessica. I've added that it's from us all - so Jo knows we care > about her! > If you want to send her a card yourself... send it to: I would love to send her a card, but will she actually get it? I mean is this a public address such as her office where she may get thousands upon thousands of cards that she will never read or a personal address which not everyone knows about and therefore my card would actually get to her? Does this make sense? Scott From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 2 17:09:49 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:09:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Movie Gaak References: <90a060+6pbi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A292CDC.5DC8721@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6305 Joywitch wrote: > > Hmmm, did I miss something or is everyone else wondering what they > > might use this for too > > Diagon Alley? That had been my thought, just offhand. But I was clearly off on my mental "atmosphere" about Hagrid's house, so who knows? --Amanda From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 2 18:39:04 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:39:04 -0800 Subject: FW: St. Chad - King's X Message-ID: <3A2941C8.268D294F@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6306 Relevance to HP is the last paragraph of the first article: "An ancient well dedicated to St. Chad in London -- the waters of which were said to cure indigestion and hangovers -- was destroyed to build King's Cross rail way station." Along with Queen Boadicea's grave? I received this on another list > From another list: >> Forwarded from another list: >>>>> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=185132&a=1430535&p=34475807 You simply won't believe it. I thought it was a joke, until I did some digging in Northernlight and came across this and many other references: http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintc24.htm It's true. The Catholic patron saint of disputed elections is St. Chad!!! Ahhhhahahhahahahaha! >>>>> -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 2 20:40:18 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:40:18 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo Message-ID: <000a01c05ca0$162dd8c0$5d997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6307 Hi >> If you want to send her a card yourself... send it to: >I would love to send her a card, but will she actually get it? Yes she should do. Fiddy (Jo's PA) opens all mail sent to the address, and passes relevant things on. The card will probably be displayed in the office, along with the many others she is likely to get. > I mean is this a public address such as her office where she may get thousands upon thousands of cards that she will never read or a personal address which not everyone knows about and therefore my card would actually get to her? I can't give you her personal address. Her personal address however is not ex-directory however, so those in the UK can get it if so wish - though Jo does have more than one house these days. The address is her office address. Most mail still goes via the publishers, so not so much goes directly to the office. If you enclose a letter, you will probably get a reply... though it will probably be quiet a standard reply, as Fiddy does most of the replying these days - though she assures me Jo does get to see all the letters, eventually. >Does this make sense? Yes it makes sense... but how many people will really send her a card? Many might think about it... but in reality, how many actually get round to it - and get it sent to Jo's correct address - rather than to a publisher, how may or may not forward it. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 2 20:43:06 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:43:06 -0000 Subject: Movie Gaak Message-ID: <001501c05ca0$7a8da5c0$5d997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6308 >Actually, this brings up another question that's been floating aroud my >head ( please forgive me if this has already been discussed ) but what >if anything could be cut out from the book to make the movie fit into >the two hour, long enough for kids to sit still for category ? >Michelle I don't think Jo would allow anything to be cut out... but in a book, a lot of time is spent describing locations, and objects - especially Food in Jo's case. A picture is worth a 1000 words... thus, a good set is all that is needed to skip large chunks of the book. At least... that's my view of how things go in the movie industry. Do we have any insiders who can say more about the movie making process - and how they manage to compress a book to movie length? Nick From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 2 20:45:29 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:45:29 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo Message-ID: <001e01c05ca0$cf9bf080$5d997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6309 Note to self... must proof read, must proof read! That last message was terrible... hope you understood it, even with my mixed up words! Nick From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 21:11:00 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:11:00 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo In-Reply-To: <001e01c05ca0$cf9bf080$5d997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <90boh4+nsl0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6310 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Note to self... must proof read, must proof read! > > That last message was terrible... hope you understood it, even with my mixed > up words! > I was a little confused but I understood it. I will send her a card, and try to mail it in the next few days. Now I just have to decide what to write in it... Scott From terzarima at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 21:18:17 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:18:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Card for Jo References: <90boh4+nsl0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A296718.F407B28C@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6311 Oh get her one that will sing very loadly unless she weighs it down with a book! LOL Scott wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > > Note to self... must proof read, must proof read! > > > > That last message was terrible... hope you understood it, even with > my mixed > > up words! > > > I was a little confused but I understood it. I will send her a card, > and try to mail it in the next few days. Now I just have to decide > what to write in it... > > Scott > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From terzarima at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 21:19:44 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:19:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Card for Jo References: <90boh4+nsl0@eGroups.com> <3A296718.F407B28C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A296770.6AA593F0@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6312 Errr...loudly.... *blush* Suzanne Burns wrote: > Oh get her one that will sing very loadly unless she weighs it down with a > book! > > LOL > > Scott wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > > > Note to self... must proof read, must proof read! > > > > > > That last message was terrible... hope you understood it, even with > > my mixed > > > up words! > > > > > I was a little confused but I understood it. I will send her a card, > > and try to mail it in the next few days. Now I just have to decide > > what to write in it... > > > > Scott > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 2 23:05:16 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:05:16 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Movie Gaak References: <001501c05ca0$7a8da5c0$5d997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002e01c05cb4$5a64d480$0d098cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6313 > I don't think Jo would allow anything to be cut out... but in a book, a lot > of time is spent describing locations, and objects - especially Food in Jo's > case. A picture is worth a 1000 words... thus, a good set is all that is > needed to skip large chunks of the book. Yes , I get that. But reading the French version of PS, I KNOW that there are bits that haven't been translated out of that ( lots of them ). And, while I'm at it, does Jo know about this ? I personally am quite cross. because I think that if someone is going to translate something, they are duty bound to translate everything and paraprase anything complicated. That's what got me thinking about the moviebecause we don't really know if there are bits of dialogue in the book that might be major plot points for the whole story arc. That's more my point. Michelle > At least... that's my view of how things go in the movie industry. Do we > have any insiders who can say more about the movie making process - and how > they manage to compress a book to movie length? > > Nick > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> > eGroups eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/975789781/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 3 00:04:44 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 16:04:44 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] portkey conundrum In-Reply-To: <905nkv+arf1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202155502.03443370@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6314 At 02:19 PM 11/30/00 +0000, naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: >There is a point that is very puzzling to me in the Goblet of Fire >plot, and its to do with >the trophy cup being made into a portkey by the fake Mad Eye Moody: >Harry being manipulated into the contest, being secretly helped by >Moody - all this is to >make Harry the winner of the triwizard contest, thereby making him >the first to touch the >trophy cup, thereby whisking him away to Voldemort. My question is >this - why couldn't >Moody turn any object into a portkey and then give it to Harry to >touch? why was the whole >long and involved process of the contest necessary? Is there a point >in the story that I've >missed? I've wondered this too, and I came up with a theory: We know that Hogwarts is enchanted to disallow transport by apparation or floo powder, so creating portkeys is probably impossible too. However, a special dispensation was made for the Triwizard Cup because they wanted a quick way to get the winner out of the maze. Crouch couldn't make a portkey from scratch, but he could "reprogram" the Cup-portkey to take Harry to V instead of to outside the maze. So how did Harry get back to Hogwarts? Perhaps a portkey destination cannot be erased once it has been "programmed" in, so the best Crouch could do was insert V's graveyard into the portkey's "message queue", but it was still enchanted to bring Harry back to outside the maze when he touched it a second time. -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 3 01:20:37 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:20:37 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cuses lesson In-Reply-To: <8vr9bm+li24@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6315 At 03:13 PM 11/26/00 +0000, amaryllis05 at web.de wrote: >I`m new in this group and like to greet everybody. After finishing >the great fourth book I came up with two questions I hope someone can >answer me. I asked myself why Moody aka Barty Crouch would teach >Harry how to fight the Imperius curse. Is he just malicious and >anticipatimg the moment Harry has to confront it ? He has to behave exactly as the real Moody would, or else Dumbledore might get suspicious. However, I've been wondering if Crouch may have tested Harry with an artificially weak version of the Imperius Curse to give him a false sense of security. >And second I like >to know if Wormtail used Voldmort`s wand when he cursed Cedric, since >he came out of his wand. Thanks for your answers ! It must have been... But I can't figure out why V. killed Frank himself but had W. kill Cedric. -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 3 01:41:18 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:41:18 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "Mad-Eye Moody" - Character Sketch (long) In-Reply-To: <8vst9j+6bvk@eGroups.com> References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEED80@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202172731.03439ec0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6316 At 06:00 AM 11/27/00 +0000, atelecky at mit.edu wrote: >"When he did Avada Kedavra, the way that spider just DIED, just >snuffed it right there--", in a way that clearly suggests that he is >impressed in spite of himself, though he is checked by the look on >Harry's face. I think Ron's just going through adolescence, part of which means being a bit insenisitve. Also, he probably is quite keen on the idea of *spiders* getting killed. -- Dave From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 3 03:21:43 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 03:21:43 -0000 Subject: Perceptions In-Reply-To: <3A292CDC.5DC8721@texas.net> Message-ID: <90ce88+pjha@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6317 > That had been my thought, just offhand. But I was clearly off on my mental > "atmosphere" about Hagrid's house, so who knows? Not exactly. I have seen all the pictures from the movie sets and I'd say less than half coincide with my mental pictures. However I do not think that the movie images will change my own perceptions of the Harry Potter settings/characters. These books are all about imagination, and if there are any good arguments against the movie one is that it could replace some people's imaginations. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have clear pictures of most Characters and settings from the books. The movie will be a totally different medium and therefore I will try hard not to mix it with the books. After all that's the best (and sometimes worst) part about books- everyone takes what they want from them. Not that I wouldn't change my perceptions/ideas about the books. Such as the pronouncement of Hermione, which for books one through three was her-AH-mean. Where I got that from I still don't know! Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 3 03:29:16 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 03:29:16 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo In-Reply-To: <3A296718.F407B28C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <90cemc+jj64@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6318 Suzanne Burns wrote: > Oh get her one that will sing very loudly unless she weighs it down with a > book! > > LOL > A Howler maybe? Hmmm, that could probably be arranged (g). Imagine poor Fiddy's face when she opens it... Scott From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Sun Dec 3 03:32:29 2000 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:32:29 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Perceptions Message-ID: <55.e197db7.275b18cd@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6319 I read the first 4 books with the pronounciation 'Her MOIN' until we got a tape from the library. Now, as I'm re-reading the books, its hard to say it right, but I try. ~shahara << Such as the pronouncement of Hermione, which for books one through three was her-AH-mean. Where I got that from I still don't know! >> From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 3 04:31:39 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 04:31:39 -0000 Subject: The flying car (was Separation from Muggles) (was: A Hogwarts education In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90cibb+4i32@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6320 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated Fri, 1 Dec 2000 1:42:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Rita Winston" writes: > > > Magic can't solve everything, I think we have learned that. I don't know how easy it would be to charm computers and Muggle technology since we know that they tend not to work all that well in the presence of magic. I would also like to think that you would need to know a little something about how the technology works before you can cast a spell to manipulate it. Look at Arthur's car. Sure he made it fly, but it still couldn't handle the long trip to Hogwarts. > It's also possible that the effectiveness of certain spells on objects depends on the physical health of that object. The Weasleys' car was between 25-39 years old when Harry and Ron flew it (depending on when in that model's 8-year production run it was made, and whether you accept the Deathday Party Timetable or go by release dates); I wouldn't attempt a 200-mile-plus trip in a car that age without a thorough mechanical inspection first! Given Arthur Weasley's total lack of mechanical knowledge and the fact that most of his income is otherwise spoken for, it's safe to assume that the Anglia was at best an MoT failure (did I get the British right? I mean it failed inspection), and probably more likely had been sitting in a field for a while. And of course Arthur didn't whip out a MIG welder and socket set to get it to factory spec before spelling it to fly; he "fixed" it by magical means, too. Result; the core physics weren't up to the trip. The spirit was willing but the Lucas electrics were weak. As for why the Burrow doesn't likewise fall apart, I'd assume that wizards have been magicking houses for ages, and Arthur was blazing new territory with that car. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 3 04:39:58 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 22:39:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Technology/Magic (was Re: The Muggle World (long)) References: <90b657+drfi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A29CE9E.E1375978@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6321 atelecky at mit.edu wrote: > > > > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html > > > > This discusses magic as an alternative technology to the technology > we know > > (and the author of the essay points out that not too long ago, magic > and > > technology were considered to be more closely linked than they are > today). > > > > Peg > > Thanks for posting that link--it's a neat essay. Aside from the > discussions of the book on lists such as this one, I haven't seen > many, or really any, written about the Potter books. (that is, other > than those which simply deal with the fact of their considerable > commercial success or some one of the various controversies about > them) > > Alexandra If you search the archives for message #459, I posted a whole bunch of interesting and useful links back in August. One was: http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/hpreview.htm which is a bunch of critical articles gathered together by the University of Wisconsin. Here's another rather interesting article, which appeared in the New Republic: http://www.tnr.com/112299/siegel112299.html Anyway, go to message #459, as I said. You'll find enough there to keep you out of trouble for a good long while. Cheers, Peg >>> Currently reading: The Art and Craft of the Short Story by Rick DeMarinis (my agent recommended it) Current reigning CD: To Drive the Cold Winter Away by Loreena McKennitt The CD I want somebody to give me for Christmas: either Attainable Love by Christine Lavin, or anything by Eva Cassidy Last movie seen: How the Grinch Stole Christmas From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 3 04:56:07 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr ) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 04:56:07 -0000 Subject: Magic/Technology/Susan Cooper [somewhat OT] (was: Separation from Muggles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90cjp7+7uvo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6322 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated Fri, 1 Dec 2000 1:42:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Rita Winston" writes: > Magic can't solve everything, I think we have learned that. I >don't know how easy it would be to charm computers and Muggle >technology since we know that they tend not to work all that well in >the presence of magic. This is somewhat OT: I took my girls to the library today and while there picked a copy of Susan Cooper's _The Boggart_. What I've gathered from the jacket flap is that it's about a family who picks up a boggart (by which Cooper seems to mean a prankster spririt, a sort of Robin Good character) but the family has mistakenly taken it back across the Atlantic. So now the boggart is in the States and trying to figure out (and use for its pranks) electricity and computers. Anybody read this? I have not read Cooper's work although I understand her to be well respected--She's won the Newbery Award. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 3 05:19:33 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 05:19:33 -0000 Subject: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw In-Reply-To: <3A28110A.EFA671C0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <90cl55+ljlt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6323 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi - > > "Brandgwen G." wrote: > > > This, however, doesn't necessarily mean that cleverness and knowledge > > is what she values most. Certainly, she studies a great deal, but I > > think that is an easy way for her to distinguish herself. Goodness > > knows, she shows off about it enough (as much as I love her, > > sometimes I wish Ron would just go to the library, borrow "Hogwart's: > > a History", and hit her over the head with it). > > And, there I was agreeing with all your points up until here, Gwen! > I guess I'm just being obtuse, but I don't see why having the right > answers and using those answers to help solve problems is "showing > off." Yes, she does mention "Hogwarts: A History" alot, but I don't > think she'd be displeased if Ron or Harry suddenly referenced that book > when they were thinking about doing something. She'd be thrilled that they'd read it, not upset that they'd upstaged her moment of glory. IMO > anyway. > > Penny > > I think she'd be delighted if Ron and Harry would read Hogwarts: A History....and I can't believe that they HAVEN'T read it, given all the lovely information about the Heir of Slytherin, and the charms that keep it hidden, and the Chamber of Secrets, and the night sky in the banquet room....it MUST be aggravating to keep reminding Ron/Harry that you can't apparate/disapparate within Hogwarts grounds...in fact, I would very much like to read it...perhaps JKR will write it...MUCH more interesting than Quidditch through the ages (she said dodging the bludger and the beaters) Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 3 05:21:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 05:21:47 -0000 Subject: Parseltongue question In-Reply-To: <3A249789.77D5166D@texas.net> Message-ID: <90cl9b+t74b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6324 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Has anyone (but me) wondered why Harry didn't try to *talk* to the > basilisk in the Chamber? Why he didn't yell at it to attack Riddle, or > go away, or anything? Perhaps he knew instinctively that it would be fruitless to try to discuss things with the Basilisk...Riddle already had established control as the Heir of Slytherin.... From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 3 08:07:35 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 08:07:35 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts, a History (was: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw In-Reply-To: <90cl55+ljlt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90cv07+8ub0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6325 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > I think she'd be delighted if Ron and Harry would read Hogwarts: > A History....and I can't believe that they HAVEN'T read it, (snip) > ...in fact, I would very much like to read it...perhaps JKR will > write it...MUCH more interesting than Quidditch through the ages Yes, but probably much longer and much more laborious to write. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Dec 3 10:27:33 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 10:27:33 -0000 Subject: Cuses lesson In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <90d76l+8jj5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6326 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 03:13 PM 11/26/00 +0000, amaryllis05 at w... wrote: > >I`m new in this group and like to greet everybody. After finishing > >the great fourth book I came up with two questions I hope someone can > >answer me. I asked myself why Moody aka Barty Crouch would teach > >Harry how to fight the Imperius curse. Is he just malicious and > >anticipatimg the moment Harry has to confront it ? > > He has to behave exactly as the real Moody would, or else Dumbledore > might get suspicious. > > However, I've been wondering if Crouch may have tested Harry with > an artificially weak version of the Imperius Curse to give him a false > sense of security. > > >And second I like > >to know if Wormtail used Voldmort`s wand when he cursed Cedric, since > >he came out of his wand. Thanks for your answers ! > > It must have been... But I can't figure out why V. killed Frank himself > but had W. kill Cedric. > I have an idea about your last question - I think that Wormtail himself doesn't have a wand (? - I'm not sure about this). Voldemort needed Wormtail to bind Harry and then do a lot of stuff that needs a wand, so it was Wormtail who had his (Voldemort's) wand at that time. Naama > > > -- Dave From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Sun Dec 3 12:28:27 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 12:28:27 -0000 Subject: Susan Cooper (OT) In-Reply-To: <90cjp7+7uvo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90de9b+g1dt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6327 Peg wrote: > This is somewhat OT: I took my girls to the library today and > while there picked a copy of Susan Cooper's _The Boggart_. What I've > gathered from the jacket flap is that it's about a family who picks > up a boggart (by which Cooper seems to mean a prankster spririt, a > sort of Robin Good character) but the family has mistakenly taken it > back across the Atlantic. So now the boggart is in the States and > trying to figure out (and use for its pranks) electricity and > computers. > > Anybody read this? I have not read Cooper's work although I > understand her to be well respected--She's won the Newbery Award. > > Peg Yes, I certainly have read this and loved it. The Boggart is, as you noted, not at all like the Boggart Lupin teaches the 3rd years to fight (see, this is on topic really!), but is a Puck-like figure which gradually learns to deal with modern technology. She manages the clash between magic and technology very well. It's a good book, and I do recommend it strongly, as I do Cooper's other books, esp. 'The Dark Is Rising' sequence. I hope you enjoy it! -Blaise, pleased that the Christmas holidays have begun. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Dec 3 12:29:00 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 07:29:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cuses lesson References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A2A3C8C.C578D4AB@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6328 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > >And second I like > >to know if Wormtail used Voldmort`s wand when he cursed Cedric, since > >he came out of his wand. Thanks for your answers ! > > It must have been... But I can't figure out why V. killed Frank himself > but had W. kill Cedric. > Here's my new theory on this: It happened this way because Voldemort only expected one person (Harry) to come through the Portkey, and since he (Voldemort) was just waiting, wrapped in blankets, for the Placing In The Cauldron Process to begin,a nd since the two of them had planned it that Wormtail would need Voldemort's wand to tie harry up & set the fire for the potion, etc., wormtail was using the wand (since he didn't have one of his own) and therefore, Voldemort was in no position to use his wand to kill The Unexpected Cedric, because he'd let wormtail hold/use it. From terzarima at earthlink.net Sun Dec 3 15:28:59 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (terzarima at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 10:28:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cuses lesson Message-ID: <200012031028524.SM02324@m2w027> No: HPFGUIDX 6329 I still want to know how Voldey could have had his wand at all, considering that he did not have a body for so long. Original Message: ----------------- From: naama_gat at hotmail.com Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 10:27:33 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cuses lesson --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 03:13 PM 11/26/00 +0000, amaryllis05 at w... wrote: > >I`m new in this group and like to greet everybody. After finishing > >the great fourth book I came up with two questions I hope someone can > >answer me. I asked myself why Moody aka Barty Crouch would teach > >Harry how to fight the Imperius curse. Is he just malicious and > >anticipatimg the moment Harry has to confront it ? > > He has to behave exactly as the real Moody would, or else Dumbledore > might get suspicious. > > However, I've been wondering if Crouch may have tested Harry with > an artificially weak version of the Imperius Curse to give him a false > sense of security. > > >And second I like > >to know if Wormtail used Voldmort`s wand when he cursed Cedric, since > >he came out of his wand. Thanks for your answers ! > > It must have been... But I can't figure out why V. killed Frank himself > but had W. kill Cedric. > I have an idea about your last question - I think that Wormtail himself doesn't have a wand (? - I'm not sure about this). Voldemort needed Wormtail to bind Harry and then do a lot of stuff that needs a wand, so it was Wormtail who had his (Voldemort's) wand at that time. Naama > > > -- Dave To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From lildreamer842 at aol.com Sun Dec 3 16:30:56 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:30:56 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] portkey conundrum Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6330 In a message dated 12/2/00 7:00:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, DaveH47 at mindspring.com writes: << So how did Harry get back to Hogwarts? Perhaps a portkey destination cannot be erased once it has been "programmed" in, so the best Crouch could do was insert V's graveyard into the portkey's "message queue", but it was still enchanted to bring Harry back to outside the maze when he touched it a second time. >> Hi ... I've been kinda lurking but this was really bugging me .... In the very beginning of the book when they go to the Quidditch world cup the portkey had a timer thing on it because Mr. Weasley said "They're objects that are used to transport wizards from one spot to another at a prearranged time." Then when they are leaving the World Cup The portkey keeper Basil has to arrange a portkey home for them. So.... how did Harry get back? Im sure Moody wouldnt have been as thick to have it timed to take someone back ... Harry couldve gotten away .. which he did. Then I thought well maybe the portkey was supposed to take Voldemort back to Hogwarts or something ... but that doesn't make sense because they can all apparate.... which brings up another point that if Hogwarts has wards for apparation into and out of Hogwarts how come Harry was able to use the portkey to get back in ... You would think it would be blocked by a similar ward so that terrorists weren't trying to portkey into Hogwarts every five minutes lol ... so i think the big question is why wasn't the portkey blocked from returning? shouldn't there have been high security with the Triwizard tournament going on? It doesn't make much sense .. well at least in my head its very confusing.. Well I don't wanna waste anymore of your time with my ramblings Rachel "The girl who skulked" From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 3 19:27:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 13:27:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Card for Jo References: <90boh4+nsl0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2A9EA7.C110D2EF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6331 Scott wrote: > I was a little confused but I understood it. I will send her a card, > and try to mail it in the next few days. Now I just have to decide > what to write in it... How about "Happy Christmas, and did you know about/approve the wand order correction that (fill in the publisher) just did?" It still seems so cut-and-paste, I'm dying for some confirmation that she authorized it. Even if the wand order was wrong, the fix doesn't seem up to her style. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 3 19:38:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 13:38:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Curses lesson References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> <3A2A3C8C.C578D4AB@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A2AA118.588E2809@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6332 heidi wrote: > Here's my new theory on this: It happened this way because Voldemort only > expected one person (Harry) to come through the Portkey, and since he > (Voldemort) was just waiting, wrapped in blankets, for the Placing In The > Cauldron Process to begin,a nd since the two of them had planned it that > Wormtail would need Voldemort's wand to tie harry up & set the fire for the > potion, etc., wormtail was using the wand (since he didn't have one of his > own) and therefore, Voldemort was in no position to use his wand to kill The > Unexpected Cedric, because he'd let wormtail hold/use it. A couple of ideas: 1. Voldemort killed Frank because he was not dangerous at all. An old Muggle. Wormtail killed Cedric because Cedric was in a position to defend himself, thus a danger to Voldemort in his (then) iffy state. 2. Wormtail happened to be holding the wand, and they wanted the potentially dangerous "spare" dealt with immediately before he could react. Cedric did qualify for the tournament and was tied for the lead, after all; he was a genuine threat. 3. Wormtail had met Harry before, and Voldemort hadn't seen him since infancy. Granted, Harry looks loads like James, but we only know one certain instance where Voldemort was face-to-face with James. Wormtail killed Cedric because he knew for certain, then, which boy was the "spare" and which was Harry. Okay, that's all I could think of. Probably the answer according to Jo: Because. No biggie, he happened to be holding the wand. --Amanda From mzettl at freenet.de Sun Dec 3 19:47:47 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:47:47 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Curses lesson References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> <3A2A3C8C.C578D4AB@alumni.upenn.edu> <3A2AA118.588E2809@texas.net> Message-ID: <008001c05d61$ea29e940$262a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6333 > 3. Wormtail had met Harry before, and Voldemort hadn't seen him since infancy. But wasn't it Voldemort *in person* who shared the body of Quirrell in TPT? Then he had seen Harry only 3 years ago and knew exactly how he looked! Dinah From joym999 at aol.com Sun Dec 3 19:52:36 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 19:52:36 -0000 Subject: Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) In-Reply-To: <90de9b+g1dt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90e8a4+ths3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6334 In reference to the discussion below, does anyone know if boggarts appear in literature other than in the HP books and the Cooper book? If so, what characteristics do they generally have? Are they more like JKRs boggarts or more like Coopers? Clearly, they are not well- defined mythological beasts like dragons and ghosts and unicorns. --Joywitch --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Blaise " wrote: > Peg wrote: > > > This is somewhat OT: I took my girls to the library today and > > while there picked a copy of Susan Cooper's _The Boggart_. What > I've > > gathered from the jacket flap is that it's about a family who picks > > up a boggart (by which Cooper seems to mean a prankster spririt, a > > sort of Robin Good character) but the family has mistakenly taken > it > > back across the Atlantic. So now the boggart is in the States and > > trying to figure out (and use for its pranks) electricity and > > computers. > > > > Anybody read this? I have not read Cooper's work although I > > understand her to be well respected--She's won the Newbery Award. > > > > Peg > > Yes, I certainly have read this and loved it. The Boggart is, as you > noted, not at all like the Boggart Lupin teaches the 3rd years to > fight (see, this is on topic really!), but is a Puck-like figure > which gradually learns to deal with modern technology. She manages > the clash between magic and technology very well. It's a good book, > and I do recommend it strongly, as I do Cooper's other books, > esp. 'The Dark Is Rising' sequence. I hope you enjoy it! > > -Blaise, pleased that the Christmas holidays have begun. From mzettl at freenet.de Sun Dec 3 19:57:50 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:57:50 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) References: <90e8a4+ths3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008801c05d63$51451040$262a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6335 I haven't read Susan Cooper's book. But that's what I found out about Boggarts: Boggart Mistreated brownies that have turned evil. They often ravage the house, and the only way to surely rid oneself of them is to evacuate the residence, taking care that the Boggart does not follow along with the household belongings. It also seems to be a certain frog species. But I don't know how accurate the definition is. Dinah From Vivienne at caersidi.net Sun Dec 3 20:28:40 2000 From: Vivienne at caersidi.net (Vivienne O'Regan) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:28:40 -0000 Subject: Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) In-Reply-To: <008801c05d63$51451040$262a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <90eado+5nnl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6336 Interestingly was just looking up Boggarts entry in Katherine Briggs, 'Abbey Lubbers, Banshees and Boggarts' and discovered in the section on brownies that their description almost perfectly matches that of the 'house-elf' including the gift of clothing being the key to driving them away. I had thought the description of 'house elf' had been more brownie than elf-like. Vivienne --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > I haven't read Susan Cooper's book. But that's what I found out about > Boggarts: > > Boggart > > Mistreated brownies that have turned evil. They often ravage the house, and > the only way to surely rid oneself of them is to evacuate the residence, > taking care that the Boggart does not follow along with the household > belongings. > > It also seems to be a certain frog species. > > But I don't know how accurate the definition is. > > Dinah From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 3 21:05:45 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:05:45 -0000 Subject: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw In-Reply-To: <004201c05af0$b791a400$a836073e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <90ecj9+ui82@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6337 "Alix Petty" wrote: >Remus tells Hermione that she is the cleverest witch of her age >that he's ever met, which suggests that she is special, it's more >than just putting more effort in than the others (although it >doesn't hurt), and that she is more academically able than Ron and >Harry. I agree, she is naturally brilliant but she's not in Ravenclaw because intelligence is not the quality she personally values the most. In the first book when Harry is about to risk his life Hermione hugs him and says "Harry you're a great wizard, you know." Harry says "I'm not as good as you" and then Hermione responds with incredulity "Me! Books! And cleverness! There are more important things- friendship and bravery and- oh Harry- be careful!" From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Mon Dec 4 00:04:17 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:04:17 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw References: <90ecj9+ui82@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003501c05d85$fc12d4e0$f1af7ad5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6340 That's kind of what I meant to be saying, although I didn't put it as succinctly as Eggplant here - that she is brilliant, and that she is more naturally gifted in that area than Harry and Ron - but I didn't mean to insinuate that she should be in Ravenclaw - quite the opposite in fact, that one can be the brightest academic in the year, but that it doesn't have to be one's overiding modus operandi, hence putting Hermione, as Eggplant supports with the quote, in Gryffindor. Alix ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:05 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw > "Alix Petty" wrote: > > >Remus tells Hermione that she is the cleverest witch of her age > >that he's ever met, which suggests that she is special, it's more > >than just putting more effort in than the others (although it > >doesn't hurt), and that she is more academically able than Ron and > >Harry. > > I agree, she is naturally brilliant but she's not in Ravenclaw > because intelligence is not the quality she personally values the > most. In the first book when Harry is about to risk his life Hermione > hugs him and says "Harry you're a great wizard, you know." Harry > says "I'm not as good as you" and then Hermione responds with > incredulity "Me! Books! And cleverness! There are more important > things- friendship and bravery and- oh Harry- be careful!" > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 00:21:06 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:21:06 -0000 Subject: Character Development (was Re: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw) In-Reply-To: <90ecj9+ui82@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90eo1i+9g5k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6341 Eggplant wrote: Hermione hugs him and says "Harry you're a great wizard, you know." Harry says "I'm not as good as you" and then Hermione responds with incredulity "Me! Books! And cleverness! There are more important things- friendship and bravery and- oh Harry- be careful!" Yes, that's true but I think that we'd all be kidding ourselves if we didn't admit that at least one reason for Hermione's being in Gryffindor is to forward the plot. It's not the most interesting explanation but then if the trio was made up of three brave risk takers and no one to check them, the books themselves wouldn't be to intersesting. This brings me to a question about character development. Basically would Jo have written the story to fit the characters, or would she have written the characters to fit the story? In my own experience with writing they both seem to help each other along. As I write I find out new things about the characters and therefore the story can branch off into different directions than I originally thought. While I would guess JKR is much the same, I thought maybe Peg, as a published author, or anyone else for that matter could shed some light on this subject. When JKR was writing is it more likely that she started out with the exact plan that Hermione would be very bookish, and in Gryffindor, and rather bossy, and bent on trying to follow rules, and...or were these things by products of the writing. An example of this might be that Jo said she enjoyed writing Moody (Crouch Jr.) far more than she had expected. Scott From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 4 00:30:11 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:30:11 -0000 Subject: portkey conundrum In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202155502.03443370@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <90eoij+v8et@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6342 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > > I've wondered this too, and I came up with a theory: > We know that Hogwarts is enchanted to disallow transport by > apparation or floo powder, so creating portkeys is probably > impossible too. However, a special dispensation was made for the > Triwizard Cup because they wanted a quick way to get the winner out > of the maze. Crouch couldn't make a portkey from scratch, but he > could "reprogram" the Cup-portkey to take Harry to V instead of > to outside the maze. This makes sense to me - and also bear in mind that, like all revolutionaries, Voldy wants to mock and degrade the legitimate sources of authority: snatching Harry when he was alone and defenseless, like a thief in the night, would seem a cowardly and despicable act: seizing him at the very moment when Harry had triumphed in the third task of the venerable Triwizards Tournament would serve to make a hollow mockery of the Tournament, and would also re-establish Voldy as a destructive and demonic force who could fleer the "Permanent Things" of the Wizarding World at will. We know from Chap. 1 of GoF that any anti-Voldy wizard would have sufficed to restore Voldy to a corporeal format: Voldy, as alert as any spin doctor to the symbolic implications of his actions, insists that he will accept Harry Potter and Harry Potter only as the sacrificial lamb. -CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 4 00:50:07 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:50:07 -0000 Subject: Character Development (was Re: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw) In-Reply-To: <90eo1i+9g5k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90epnv+l2tt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6343 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > > This brings me to a question about character development. Basically > would Jo have written the story to fit the characters, or would she > have written the characters to fit the story? In my own experience > with writing they both seem to help each other along. As I write I > find out new things about the characters and therefore the story can > branch off into different directions than I originally thought. One classic example of this is Miguel de Cervantes' Don Quixote. One can see that in its first few chapters, Cervantes is intent on creating nothing more elaborate than a trivial satire on the extremely popular "swords-and-sorcery" of his time (i.e, the early 17th century versions of Harry Potter) - see part one, chapter 6 of DQ to see how comprehensive was Cervantes' reading of the pop culture of his time. But when Sancho Panza joins Don Quixote in Chap. 7, it's as if the narrative suddenly changes from black-and-white to full technicolor and THX-sound: Cervantes becomes gradually aware of the full range of the comic and tragic implications of a man who tries to attack the injustices of this ambiguous and flawed universe with the moral certitudes of the copybook headings. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 4 01:06:53 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:06:53 -0000 Subject: Perceptions In-Reply-To: <90ce88+pjha@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90eqnd+hgon@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6344 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > > These books are all about imagination, and if there are any good > arguments against the movie one is that it could replace some > people's imaginations. Just check out any of the numerous "fan art" sites: while a good chunk of it is just "refrigerator art" (i.e., stuff only a parent could find merit with), there's a lot of it that shows incredible imagination and variety - and since none of us "knows" what Hogwarts or Hagrid or Harry or Snape or Privet Drive or Peeves or et al really looks like, we can let our imaginations run rampant. That was - at one time - the whole point of reading. It would be tragically ironic if JKR's HP series, which seemed at one point to herald a resurrection of print culture in the age of the televised image, would drown itself in the electronic noise of the times. Once Hollywood interjects its dictatorial decrees, all alternate forms of imagining Harry Potter will be abolished. Let's hope the movie is awful and perishes at the boxoffice: because the better the movie, the more omnipotent the cultural imperialism (Can anyone read Baum's Oz series without falling back on Garland/Fleming imagery?). We will no longer be permitted to imagine Snape as we please - we will be compelled to fantasize about Alan Rickman, and draw irrelevant comparisons to Pride and Prejudice and Die Hard. - CMC ("I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. Columbus.") From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Dec 4 01:47:25 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:47:25 -0000 Subject: portkey conundrum In-Reply-To: <90eoij+v8et@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90et3d+vah3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6345 I don't deny that V is a publicity-seeking psychopath; however, it seems that V needed Harry's blood *in particular* to nullify the protection provided by his mother's death. In Book 1 it was the residue of that protection which caused Quirrell's intense pain when he touched Harry. Once that protection was gone, Voldemort could touch Harry, and by implication, kill him. However, Dumbledore's reaction to this information was an immediate look of triumph. Apparently, more than one barrier was overcome when V shared Harry's blood. I expect that JKR will, in her own time, let us know what this was. -JF > We know from Chap. 1 of GoF that any anti-Voldy wizard would have > sufficed to restore Voldy to a corporeal format: Voldy, as alert as > any spin doctor to the symbolic implications of his actions, > insists that he will accept Harry Potter and Harry Potter only as > the sacrificial lamb. > > -CMC From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 4 01:51:42 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 19:51:42 -0600 Subject: Capes/Cloaks; HP Merchandise Message-ID: <3A2AF8AE.6D70C276@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6346 Hi -- I was at the "Dickens on the Strand" event in Galveston this weekend, and ran into a great manufacturer of capes & cloaks who had a street stall set up. My husband refused to buy me one as (a) I have a fleece HP-ish cape coat with hood that I just bought this season for $30 and (b) we don't need coats here all that many days in the winter. I'm still hoping to persuade him as a long-term investment but .... anyway. I did find their website when I got home, and since their prices are I think somewhat lower than the company that Peg recommended earlier this year, I thought I'd pass the info along to you guys. The prices for unlined coats seems very reasonable, and I'm unsure why lining the coat should jack up the price as much as it seems to do. Seems to me it might be worthwhile to buy it unlined & find a local seamstress to slap some lining into it .... For those who might be inclined to care about such things, it is also a woman-owned business. I liked the Stewart cape coat myself ... very dramatic. http://www.bodyhangings.com/main.html HP Merchandise -- I saw a perfectly lovely & outrageously over-priced new set of glass HP ornaments at my Hallmark the other day. It's a set of 3 glass hand-painted ornaments: Harry, Hermione & Ron .... and can be yours for only $180. They're beautiful but .... I'm guessing Santa is not going to leave them for me. It's hard to justify too since they're Christmas ornaments ... if there was a way to display them year-round, it might make more sense. I did get the painted glass Harry with Hedwig from Wireless for my birthday, and it looks great on our tree. In fact, I think it looks better than the Hallmark pewter ornaments. The pewter ornaments are very attractive, but do tend to get lost on the tree. Amusing side-story -- We put up our tree last weekend. After we put all the ornaments on, I was walking around the tree & looking at them. I suddenly asked my husband where he'd moved our gold filigree heart ornament, and he pointed to a place where he said had been a bit bare before. I said, "But, I placed that heart specifically between my Harry and Hermione ornaments for a reason." He was *literally* rolling on the floor laughing his head off at me. The heart *was* moved back though. Penny From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 4 02:13:14 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 02:13:14 -0000 Subject: My Favorite Curse (not another song!) Message-ID: <90eujq+cd63@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6348 My Favorite Curse (to the tune of The Longest Time) (Enter VOLDEMORT, LUCIUS MALFOY and WORMTAIL, in black leather jackets) ALL: Oh, oh, oh, It's our favorite curse Oh, oh, oh, Inspires us to verse W: The Imperius Curse robs you of your will LM: The Cruciatus makes your blood run chill V: But I so love killin' Cause I'm such a super-villain ALL: That's why Kedavra is my/his favorite curse LM: The Imperius Curse puts me in control W: The Cruciatus stirs my very soul V: But the greatest harm's with The hex that you must buy the farm with ALL: That's why Kedavra is our favorite curse V: Some say these curses they won't forgive But they'll never outlive Me, they can't see their error W: Nothing's finer than these hexes three LM: They so effectively ALL: Create a grand reign of terror V: So, bring on that Potter kid to me We will make it best two out of three We will yank our wands out ALL: And this time there will be no doubt Why the Kedavra is my/his favorite curse. ALL: Oh, oh, oh, It's our favorite curse Oh, oh, oh, Inspires us to verse Oh, oh, oh (fade-out) - CMC From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 4 03:28:34 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:28:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Perceptions References: <90eqnd+hgon@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2B0F61.4F0CAFF2@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6349 coriolan at worldnet.att.net wrote: > Let's hope the > movie is awful and perishes at the boxoffice: because the better the > movie, the more omnipotent the cultural imperialism (Can anyone read > Baum's Oz series without falling back on Garland/Fleming imagery?). Well, maybe, but I'm still a kid at heart, and I'm waiting hopefully for a GOOD movie. Maybe even a great one. Ya gotta be an optimist, sometimes. > We will no longer be permitted to imagine Snape as we please - we > will be compelled to fantasize about Alan Rickman, and draw > irrelevant comparisons to Pride and Prejudice and Die Hard. Ah, I think that's Sense and Sensibility and Die Hard. If you don't mind my niggling. Cheers, Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 4 03:47:12 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:47:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Development (was Re: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw) References: <90eo1i+9g5k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2B13BF.87D97EC6@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6350 Scott wrote: > This brings me to a question about character development. Basically > would Jo have written the story to fit the characters, or would she > have written the characters to fit the story? In my own experience > with writing they both seem to help each other along. As I write I > find out new things about the characters and therefore the story can > branch off into different directions than I originally thought. > While I would guess JKR is much the same, I thought maybe Peg, as a > published author, or anyone else for that matter could shed some > light on this subject. This, I imagine, is very idiosyncratic for each writer. I dreamed up an entire political structure for my first book based on an elaborate metaphor about gems--the seven political houses were called "the Diadem" and each house was named after a gem, and so jewelry making was a big part of the culture--a political house allying itself with another political house (say a wedding) would commemorate the occasion by commissioning a piece of jewelry using both gems). And the ENTIRE reason I used this metaphor was that my heroine was a gemcutter, and I asked myself, "how can I put a gemcutter at the epicenter of the political action? In my second book, one of the main characters was an Irish musician, and I wove Irish music and legend throughout the book. And the entire reason I did that was that when I saw a man reading in a public library and thought, "Aha, he looks just like the way I imagine my character, Sean, should look," he happened to be wearing an Irish sweater. Imagine how different the book might have been if had been wearing a Hawaiin shirt. So, for me, as for Scott, plot drives character and character, in turn, drives plot. Books that are failures for me are the ones where the characters and plot don't seem to have much to do with each other. I imagine an example of this in Rowling's work might be the fact that Harry is a great Quidditch player. She has talked about how she thought about one of the ways that cultures come together is with sports, and so she dreamed up Quidditch. And she made Harry a great Quidditch player. Now does he have great reflexes because she made up Quidditch, or is because she made up Quidditch the reason why he has great reflexes? Once she made up Quidditch, of course, she had a possibility for bringing many characters together and starting lots of plot lines, at the Quidditch World Cup. And how are those great Quidditch reflexes of Harry's going to be a plot turning point later in the series? Peg From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 4 06:10:22 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:10:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Perceptions References: <90eqnd+hgon@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2B354E.9D8D2B1B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6351 coriolan at worldnet.att.net wrote: > We will no longer be permitted to imagine Snape as we please - we > will be compelled to fantasize about Alan Rickman, and draw > irrelevant comparisons to Pride and Prejudice and Die Hard. Caius, Caius, Caius. Clearly you are no hormonally motivated idol chaser. "Sense and Sensibility," not "Pride and Prejudice." I agree that forced imaginings are unfortunate--one reason I won't watch any music videos--but I think the casting, at least, has been done well. Snape as I pictured him already "felt" like Alan Rickman (more like the Sherriff of Nottingham than your selections, I might add), and McGonagall already "felt" like Maggie Smith. So perhaps it will not be so terrible as you think, this prison of the mind a hit movie will lock us in...? (she hopes, because she knows damn well she's going to have to go see the movie) --Amanda, ambivalent From machenback at hotmail.com Mon Dec 4 06:44:32 2000 From: machenback at hotmail.com (machenback at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 06:44:32 -0000 Subject: Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) In-Reply-To: <90eado+5nnl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90fegg+r3v7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6352 Hi,I'm delurking for a moment to add that according to the Oxford Dictionary of English Folklore, a "Dobby" is an alternative name for a Brownie in parts of Yorkshire and Lancashire.The same book also has the "House Elf" description of Brownies although it specifies that in some versions of folklore they will disappear if given new clothes rather than any old thing. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vivienne O'Regan" wrote: > Interestingly was just looking up Boggarts entry in Katherine > Briggs, 'Abbey Lubbers, Banshees and Boggarts' and discovered in the > section on brownies that their description almost perfectly matches > that of the 'house-elf' including the gift of clothing being the key > to driving them away. I had thought the description of 'house elf' > had been more brownie than elf-like. > > > Vivienne > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > > I haven't read Susan Cooper's book. But that's what I found out > about > > Boggarts: > > > > Boggart > > > > Mistreated brownies that have turned evil. They often ravage the > house, and > > the only way to surely rid oneself of them is to evacuate the > residence, > > taking care that the Boggart does not follow along with the > household > > belongings. > > > > It also seems to be a certain frog species. > > > > But I don't know how accurate the definition is. > > > > Dinah From anglinsbees at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 10:07:57 2000 From: anglinsbees at yahoo.com (Ellen Anglin) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:07:57 -0000 Subject: Capes/Cloaks In-Reply-To: <3A2AF8AE.6D70C276@swbell.net> Message-ID: <90fqdt+sjco@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6353 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I did find their website when I got home, and since their prices are I > think somewhat lower than the company that Peg recommended earlier this > year, I thought I'd pass the info along to you guys. The prices for > unlined coats seems very reasonable, and I'm unsure why lining the coat > should jack up the price as much as it seems to do. Seems to me it > might be worthwhile to buy it unlined & find a local seamstress to slap > some lining into it .... I looked at it, and Imust admit, promptly got sticker shock! Ouch! I am a seamstress and I have made, or helped to make many cloaks of various styles. Labor is fairly cheap- they are easy to make, but with good quality wools and velvets running upwards of $20 a yard, unless you find a really good sale, the average cost of constructiong a cloak is easily around $100 In the historic Reinactment group I am in, cloaks sell for from $50 to $200, on average, for a cloak- price varies depending on material and the length and fullness of the cloak. Lining a cloak properly is tricky- the slippery stuff moves all over the place, and has to be cut just to have it hang right. You are basically cutting and sewing a second whole cloak, and then joining it together with the first. Lining an already assembled garment is no picnic either- Most local tailors and seamstresses don't like to mess with relining garments, let alone drafting a pattern and creating a lining for one that doesn't have a lining to copy. If you find someone willing to do it, it will probably cost a lot. I recommend the following seamstress highly- I own several dresses made by her, and my sister and nephew own cloaks made by her- Very nicely done! (And this from a seamstress who is never happy with her own work...) Her prices are so reasonable- I don't know how she does it! I compared cloak prices all over the SCA, and she had the best combination of quality and price. She has been doing this for at least three years- it is not a fly-by night operation. http://www.theboredhousewife.com/ Her 100% wool circle cloaks sell for $100 to $120, and her 44 inch (Knee length) lined velveteen cloak is only $95. If you wanted some changes, or lining, talk to her, last time I talked to her she was quite willing to accomodate special requests. Ellen Anglin anglinsbees at yahoo.com From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 10:11:25 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:11:25 -0000 Subject: Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) In-Reply-To: <90e8a4+ths3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90fqkd+v2ek@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6354 http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/00features/417.html Should take you to Boggart Hole Clough in Manchester. Pam From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 10:16:53 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:16:53 -0000 Subject: Perceptions In-Reply-To: <90eqnd+hgon@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90fqul+v4kq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6355 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, coriolan at w... wrote: > We will no longer be permitted to imagine Snape as we please - we > will be compelled to fantasize about Alan Rickman, and draw > irrelevant comparisons to Pride and Prejudice and Die Hard. Was Alan Rickman in Pride and Prejudice? I remember him in Sense and Sensibility but I can't bring him to mind in P&P at all. Pam From sinead at bu.edu Mon Dec 4 15:28:36 2000 From: sinead at bu.edu (Sinead Siobhan Clements) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 11:28:36 -0400 Subject: Twin Cities Reviews: Dayton's Shows References: <975924495.25382@egroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2BB820.2CD1E80E@bu.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6356 *Delurks* Hullo I JUST had to post this... can you believe these people? They gave the Dayton's Show zero stars because.. Oh I'll let you read it to see your opinion. (Remember Rowling said that they were INSANE to think that her books promoted Satanism) From FelixonSpringLk on Thursday November 30, 2000 at 06:12 PM: Harry Potter is another of Satan's methods of enticing & hooking our children into his evil world of sourcery, wizardry & Satanic worship due to the naivite of parents & children. Christmas is the birth of Jesus, our Savior & praise God for His victory over Satan. We need to open our eyes & be more discerning to the spiritual war taking place for the hearts & minds of our children. Dayton's, you missed the boat on this one!!! From RPCALLEN on Saturday November 25, 2000 at 11:23 AM: Encouraging your child to explore witchcraft is asking for trouble. This isn't a Christmas theme, what is Dayton's thinking? this was at AOL message boards.. I'm guessing you can e-mail those people at AOL.com but I wouldn't advise on doing that but to slam Daytons like that is uncalled for.. It was a WONDERFUL exhibit! To take Rowling's words into my own: Those people are insane to say that! Sinead *lurks back* From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 4 15:54:41 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:54:41 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) References: <90fegg+r3v7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2BBE41.389E4144@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6357 machenback at hotmail.com wrote: > Hi,I'm delurking for a moment to add that according to the Oxford > Dictionary of English Folklore, a "Dobby" is an alternative name for > a Brownie in parts of Yorkshire and Lancashire.The same book also has > the "House Elf" description of Brownies although it specifies that in > some versions of folklore they will disappear if given new clothes > rather than any old thing. I *knew* I'd heard Dobby before. Thanks. The obvious echoes of the shoemaker and the elves haven't been mentioned (that I've seen) so I will...the little hardworking elves, who are apparently freed (in their own estimation) by the gift of clothes.... And brownies weren't all nice; didn't you have to set out "sweet milk" for them and other such propitiation, lest they do unkind things (like make the cows go dry, tangle up the horses' manes, etc.)....? Just rambling, been up late with a sick little one. --Amanda From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Dec 4 16:40:46 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:40:46 -0000 Subject: See ya in the funny papers Message-ID: <90ghee+qa4p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6358 Welcome new adult fan Dagwood Bumstead of the Blondie comic strip, age 70+ years and counting, who is studying philosophy this morning with the aid of HP. Pippin From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 16:51:22 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:51:22 -0000 Subject: A thought about Floo Powder Message-ID: <90gi2a+3cb2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6359 There is something about floo powder that has been bothering me lately. Namely how exactly do they "step" into the fire. A normal fireplace would certainly not be big enough to just walk into. Some of the fireplaces at Hogwarts might be, but surely not the Dursely's, or the Weasely's. Do they simply stick a foot in and then the rest of their bodies are sucked away, or do they crawl, or...? Are fireplaces different in the UK? From my experience with the UK, a lot of Brit. houses are built on a smaller scale than those in the US. Is that basically a true statement? I know that I could never fit into MY fireplace, but then this IS magic... Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 16:56:40 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:56:40 -0000 Subject: Sorry... In-Reply-To: <90gi2a+3cb2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90gic8+68e3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6360 In my last message I said... "A normal fireplace would certainly not be big enough to just walk into." NEVER END A SENTENCE IN A PERPOSITION!!! I'm now banging my head and squealing "Bad Scott! Bad Scott!" in a very Dobby-like fashion! Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 17:35:35 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 17:35:35 -0000 Subject: Sorry... In-Reply-To: <90gic8+68e3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90gkl7+caua@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6361 > > NEVER END A SENTENCE IN A PERPOSITION!!! > Or is it preposition. Argh! I think I'll stop before drive myself crazy! Wouldn't Hermione be ashamed of me?!?! Scott From klaatu at primenet.com Mon Dec 4 17:51:34 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:51:34 -0700 Subject: Senior Convert!! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6362 Just had to share the news... Last week, my Dad (77 years old) asked to borrow my copy of the first Harry Potter book, since he'd seen it so much in the news, and I had raved about it. He finished it today and gave it back to me, and I said, "Do you want to see the next one?" His eyes lit up and he said "YEAH! That was really fun to read!" Yay! Another convert!! His usual reading consists of westerns, world war II stories, and historical non-fiction. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 18:31:33 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:31:33 -0000 Subject: Sorry... (OT) In-Reply-To: <90gic8+68e3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90gnu5+ckbl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6363 Scott wrote: > In my last message I said... > "A normal fireplace would certainly not be big enough to just walk > into." > > NEVER END A SENTENCE IN A PERPOSITION!!! > > I'm now banging my head and squealing "Bad Scott! Bad Scott!" in a > very Dobby-like fashion! > > Scott *** I think there was a split infinitive in there too, but I won't boldly go there. Winston Churchill famously put down a government official who corrected his placement of prepositions at the end of sentences. He commented, in red ink: "This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put." Neil From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 4 19:36:49 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 19:36:49 -0000 Subject: Cuses lesson In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <90groh+rmht@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6364 >why Moody aka Barty Crouch would teach Harry how to fight the >Imperius curse. He didn't, he couldn't, because Barty Crouch didn't know how to fight the Imperius curse. Harry defeated it useing his natural ability. From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 4 19:42:03 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 19:42:03 -0000 Subject: Cuses lesson In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001202171641.03442a60@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <90gs2b+d5qk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6365 Dave Hardenbrook >I've been wondering if Crouch may have tested Harry with >an artificially weak version of the Imperius Curse to give him a >false sense of security. The security wasn't false because Voldmort tried the Imperius Curse on Harry too and it didn't work that time either. Harry was just too strong for it. From ABoyko at starchoice.com Mon Dec 4 22:22:15 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:22:15 -0400 Subject: Picture of Bill Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEED9C@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6366 Hi, I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I have another nitpick - or a challenge to figure out the reason, like the Marauder's Map. You be the judge. :-) In PoA, Harry sees a picture of all the Weasleys in Egypt, from the newspaper clipping. In GoF, he is surprised by Bill's appearance, because he thinks Bill would resemble the prissy Percy. Instead, Bill is cool. (Bill is cool! I was so pleased when he and Molly showed up as Harry's "family" for the final challenge). Why didn't Harry notice what Bill looked like in Egypt? Angela From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 4 22:51:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:51:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Picture of Bill References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEED9C@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A2C1FE2.A222515D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6367 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > In PoA, Harry sees a picture of all the Weasleys in Egypt, from the > newspaper clipping. In GoF, he is surprised by Bill's appearance, because he > thinks Bill would resemble the prissy Percy. Instead, Bill is cool. (Bill is > cool! I was so pleased when he and Molly showed up as Harry's "family" for > the final challenge). > > Why didn't Harry notice what Bill looked like in Egypt? An excellent question, considering the picture was detailed enough for Sirius to notice Scabbers was missing a toe. Perhaps the twins were up to their usual stuff, and Bill was obscured to a degree or something....? Or maybe Jo forgot. She's got a lot to deal with these days. Success and all. Thank heavens I've never had to deal with the pressures of success.... sigh Amanda From terzarima at earthlink.net Mon Dec 4 23:02:33 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:02:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Picture of Bill References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEED9C@lincoln.starchoice.com> <3A2C1FE2.A222515D@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A2C2289.2157C02E@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6368 Well, there is a year's difference in time, and I think, judging by Mrs. Weasley's reaction her son, that the earring and the long hair are rather new. Just a thought.... I remember what may parents said when I suddenly showed up at Thanksgiving sporting a new piercing. *grinz* --Suzanne Amanda Lewanski wrote: > ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > > > In PoA, Harry sees a picture of all the Weasleys in Egypt, from the > > newspaper clipping. In GoF, he is surprised by Bill's appearance, because he > > thinks Bill would resemble the prissy Percy. Instead, Bill is cool. (Bill is > > cool! I was so pleased when he and Molly showed up as Harry's "family" for > > the final challenge). > > > > Why didn't Harry notice what Bill looked like in Egypt? > > An excellent question, considering the picture was detailed enough for Sirius to > notice Scabbers was missing a toe. Perhaps the twins were up to their usual > stuff, and Bill was obscured to a degree or something....? > > Or maybe Jo forgot. She's got a lot to deal with these days. Success and all. > Thank heavens I've never had to deal with the pressures of success.... > > sigh > Amanda > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 4 23:54:13 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 23:54:13 -0000 Subject: Picture of Bill In-Reply-To: <3A2C1FE2.A222515D@texas.net> Message-ID: <90har5+u9uk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6369 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > ABoyko at s... wrote: > > > In PoA, Harry sees a picture of all the Weasleys in Egypt, from the > > newspaper clipping. In GoF, he is surprised by Bill's appearance, because he > > thinks Bill would resemble the prissy Percy. Instead, Bill is cool. (Bill is > > cool! I was so pleased when he and Molly showed up as Harry's "family" for > > the final challenge). > > > > Why didn't Harry notice what Bill looked like in Egypt? > > An excellent question, considering the picture was detailed enough for Sirius to > notice Scabbers was missing a toe. Perhaps the twins were up to their usual > stuff, and Bill was obscured to a degree or something....? > > Or maybe Jo forgot. She's got a lot to deal with these days. Success and all. > Thank heavens I've never had to deal with the pressures of success.... Or maybe it was just an unflattering picture of Bill, which presumably even professional wizard photographers must take now and again. BTW, the concept of wizard photography is interesting - did the Wizards develop the art of photography simultaneously with Muggles, did they "plagarize" it from them, or did they develop photography on their own at some earlier date? - CMC ("Cheese!") From john at walton.to Tue Dec 5 00:44:15 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 00:44:15 +0000 Subject: OT: FFN issues? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6370 Quick question for those of you using FFN. Have your "favorite author" lists just disappeared? Mine have, and I'm wondering if it's me or if everyone else has suffered too. --John ****************************************** Crazy Ivan john at walton.to Fiction @ fanfiction.net: "Potter II: The Curse of Slytherin" "Harry Potter and the Song of Time" http://www.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=Directory-AuthorProfile&UserID=1 0323 Novel of the moment: "The Wild Swans": Peg Kerr What I'm humming: "Walking in Memphis: Cher Remember: A Reviewing day is a Happy day. ****************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 5 01:30:29 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 01:30:29 -0000 Subject: Picture of Bill In-Reply-To: <3A2C2289.2157C02E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <90hgfl+9g65@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6371 Suzanne Burns wrote: > Well, there is a year's difference in time, and I think, judging by Mrs. Weasley's > reaction her son, that the earring and the long hair are rather new. That's entirely possible isn't it. I mean just b/c he looks "cool" both times doesn't mean he looked the same, and after all who wouldn't look cool next to Percy? Amanda wrote: > > Or maybe Jo forgot. She's got a lot to deal with these days. Success and all. Yes this too is a possiblity, and my first thought. After all, she's writing (almost) every day and even though she's is emersed in Harry's world she can't remember EVERYTHING. Heck, I can't even recall what I did on Saturday, and I actually did it. Let alone what a fictional character looked like in a pretend newspaper clipping a year or so ago! Besides Jo's still writing and not thinking about, discussing, and nit picking what's already been written like we do... Scott From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Dec 5 02:31:10 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 5 Dec 2000 02:31:10 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <975983470.99514@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6372 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /blondie and hp 12-04-00.jpg Uploaded by : gypsycaine at yahoo.com Description : Today's Blondie Comic Strip You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/blondie+and+hp+12-04-00%2Ejpg To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, gypsycaine at yahoo.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 5 03:50:24 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 03:50:24 -0000 Subject: A Harry Potter Movie - in 1986! Message-ID: <90hom0+uegt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6373 A search through the Internet Movie Database (one of the crown jewels of the WWW) revealed that there has already been a Harry Potter movie, appropriately enough on an occult theme. Troll (1986) features both a Harry Potter Sr. (as performed by no less an actor than Michael Moriarity) and a Harry Potter Jr. (played by one Noah Hathaway, then 15 years old). The IMDB provides the following plot synopsis, which interestingly enough seems to hint at Ginny Weasley's actions in CoS: [begin quote] An evil troll, Torok, the transformed state of the ex- husband of an old friendly witch named Eunice St. Clair, has chosen her apartment building to be the heart of the restoration of the world he once knew. To do this he uses an Emerald ring, and takes possession of a little girl named Wendy, whose brother Harry immediately suspects something wrong. Torok, often in the form of the little girl, goes into each occupant's apartment, hideously transforming people (beginning with Peter Dickinson, named after the author/protagonist of _The Flight of Dragons_, which explores similar themes) into plant pods. (Summary written by Scott Hutchins ) I have not seen this film, and I don't know whether its readily available for rental. Troll, despite (or because of?) a cast featuring Sonny Bono and Julia Louis-Dreyfus received a terrible rating on the IMDB (but hey, I somehow don't think that miserable hack Chris Columbus is gonna really do any better!) - CMC The Internet Movie Database is at http://www.imdb.com From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 5 05:45:27 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:45:27 -0800 Subject: PG-13 rated joke Message-ID: <3A2C80F6.BA84B0BA@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6374 Remember those double entendre bumper stickers from the 1980s, like SCUBA DIVERS DO IT DEEPER GLIDER PILOTS KEEP IT UP LONGER ACCOUNTANTS DO IT DOUBLE ENTRY (by the way, why did those bumper stickers stop?) So it occurred to me that there should be one for each position on the Quidditch team, and here are my pathetic efforts: BEATERS HAVE BIG BATS SEEKERS DO AMAZING THINGS WITH THEIR BROOMSTICKS CHASERS KNOW HOW TO PUT IT IN KEEPERS TAKE CARE OF THREE HOLES AT ONCE -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From machenback at hotmail.com Tue Dec 5 06:22:45 2000 From: machenback at hotmail.com (machenback at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 06:22:45 -0000 Subject: Boggarts, was Re: Susan Cooper (OT) In-Reply-To: <3A2BBE41.389E4144@texas.net> Message-ID: <90i1jl+23so@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6375 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > machenback at h... wrote: > > I *knew* I'd heard Dobby before. Thanks. The obvious echoes of the shoemaker > and the elves haven't been mentioned (that I've seen) so I will...the little > hardworking elves, who are apparently freed (in their own estimation) by the > gift of clothes.... > > And brownies weren't all nice; didn't you have to set out "sweet milk" for > them and other such propitiation, lest they do unkind things (like make the > cows go dry, tangle up the horses' manes, etc.)....? > > Just rambling, been up late with a sick little one. > > --Amanda According to the same source, Brownies are faithful servants, quite happy to work hard all night although it is good manners to leave them a bowl of cream or porridge as a reward.They only really get annoyed (apart from the clothes thing) if they are spied on, laughed at or criticised.At that point they either storm out in a huff or transform into troublesome Boggarts and start causing real problems.I associate actual traditional elves with tangling up horses manes and so on; the so called "elf locks". From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 5 06:25:42 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 06:25:42 -0000 Subject: The Limits on Magic (kinda long) Message-ID: <90i1p6+i62n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6376 We all know the amazing things that magic is capable of in JKR's narrative: I'd like to look at some of the things that magic is apparently unable to do in the JKR universe (as opposed to say, the Unforgivable Curses, things that wizards can do in defiance of legal and societal norms): (1) Magic can forestall death, but it cannot resurrect the dead. Wizards are able to extend the normal human lifespan; the Elixir of Life, a byproduct of the Philosopher's Stone, can make its drinker "immortal". . But even Nicholas Flemel can't live forever: when the Philosopher's Stone is destroyed, Flamel surrenders to his mortality. We know that the dead can materialize as ghosts ? e.g., Voldemort's victims at the climax of GoF ?, but "No spell can reawaken the dead" Dumbledore tells Harry (in GoF, Ch. 36). How much of Voldemort's evil sprung from his hubristic desire to transcend death? "You know my goal ? to conquer death" Voldemort tells his Death Eaters (in GoF , Ch. 33) Though Voldemort was "less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost," he did not actually die. Could he have physically returned to his body had he actually died? (2) As we all know from our frequent visits to Madame Pomfrey's infirmary, magic can treat a variety of ailments and injuries in a manner far beyond our medical technology. Perhaps her most amazing intervention was to regenerate the bones of Harry's arm after Lockhart inadvertently made them vanish. But there are limits on what medical magic can effect: The case of Mad-Eye Moody is perhaps the best example: he is hideously scarred from his many battles with Dark Wizards, and has lost (though the details of his encounters remain frustratingly vague) a leg, an eye, and part of his nose. For some reason, his injuries could not be repaired. This may be due to the design of the Dark Wizards' hexes, which we may assume are intended to be irreversible. (3) Skills and knowledge cannot be obtained by magical methods. There is no spell than professors can perform upon their students to fill their noggins with the requisite magical knowledge: still less can students perform such spells upon themselves when finals are approaching (or George and Fred would have surely already done so). We've heard little about cheating on exams at Hogwarts, but I would suppose that a would-be cheater would be compelled to resort to pretty much the same methods that his Muggle counterparts might employ. Otherwise, the honest Hogwarts student must laboriously assimilate knowledge the same way we mere Muggles acquired our degrees: through intensive study, rote memorization and practice, practice, practice. Hermione, the scholar par excellence, stands out in the same way that she would stand out had she remained in the Muggle world ? through her diligent and painstaking study, or as one law school student once described it, the chronic and habitual application of butt upon chair. (4) Most poignantly of all, material possessions cannot be magically acquired, and stigma of poverty cannot be covered up through magical means. Harry can summon his Firebolt when he battles the Hungarian Horntail, but he can't transfigure a rock into a flying broom (as Cedric transfigured a rock into a dog). And this isn't merely due to his youth and inexperience: Sirius Black, a skilled and experienced Wizard, must purchase the Firebolt for Harry much as we might purchase our gifts off the Toys-R-Us or the Lands Ends website. Similarly, Remus Lupin knows how to deal with Boggarts and Grindylows, but he can't conceal his shabby looking robes "that had been darned in several places," or his battered luggage which must be held together with string rather than magic. Arthur Weasley can erase the memory of Muggles and can charm a car to fly, but he can't make the Burrow look like anything more than the cozy but dilapidated hovel that it is, or provide a new wardrobe for his children. Ron must wear hand-me-downs and clothing too small for him, and complain of his poverty. The wealthy families, such as the Malfoys, acquire their pelf in much the same manner as Muggles families. The restrictions on economics may reflect the fact that the Wizards live in a capitalistic society (which I am not, from my militant right-wing perspective, going to trash). A great portion of the Wizarding world's populace make their living through commerce, and it would be destructive of their livelihood if other wizards could magically create the good that they offer. Why go to Diagon Alley if you could magically create your own robes, wands, textbooks, and Bernie Bott's Every Flavor Beans? Now, perhaps the laws should be altered so that every wizard could magically create what they needed? But a society where every person is totally self-sufficient would be ungovernable, just as a person who could satisfy his every desire would become quickly bored and satiated. As Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of SS/PS, "As much money and life as you could want! The two things most humans would chose above all ? the trouble is, humans do have a knack of choosing precisely those things that are worst for them." (see also Juvenal's 10th satire) I'm certain there are other limitations that I'm overlooking. - CMC From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 5 18:09:50 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:09:50 -0000 Subject: The Creevey brothers In-Reply-To: <9095hg+i0pg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90jb1e+tpea@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6377 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Andrea Bonfanti" wrote: > Was it just me, or did anyone else found it strange that Colin > Creevey had a brother who also turned out to be a wizard? I mean, > what are the odds? They come from a Muggle family, so, wouldn't it be > rare enough for ONE of the kids to be a wizard to start with? Or is > it like a recessive gene or something? Do you have any thoughts about > this? > Actually, this issue crops up in the "Star Wars" novels too, and I'm sure I've seen it in other fantasy/sci-fi "universes" as well. -People with wizarding/Jedi abilities are born when neither parent has any such ability (Hermione in HP, Obi-Wan and Lowbacca in SW) -When witches/wizards and Force-sensitives marry Muggles, the offspring nearly always inherit special abilities (Seamus Finnigan in HP, the Solo kids in SW) -Squibs (nonmagic children of magical parents) are extremely rare in HP. (Filch is one of a handful); no equivalent exists in SW. Put these together (and leave aside that immaculate conception Lucas threw in on us!) and you get the notion that if there's a Spoonbender Gene, it's genetically dominant- this of course begs the question of why are they a minority? I've never seen this answered fully; both the Jedi and the Rowlingian wizarding world have been persecuted in the past, and for a time the Jedi have appeared to keep ceilbate, but neither is a full expalnation as both require acceptance of the wizard/Jedi "cultures" rather than simply the Spoonbender Gene. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Dec 5 18:16:35 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:16:35 -0000 Subject: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw In-Reply-To: <90cl55+ljlt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90jbe3+glj0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6378 Why isn't Hermione in Ravenclaw? After re-reading PS/SS and CoS, I am now inclined to think that the students are sorted into the various houses based on their own wants and desires. Here's why. PS/SS Chapter 5, Draco tells Harry in Madame Malkin's Shop " Well, no one really knows until they get there, do they, but I know I'll be in Slytherin, all our family have been.." Draco wants to be in Slytherin as was the rest of his family. PS/SS Chapter 6, Hermione says "Do either of you know what house you'll be in? I've been asking around and I hope I'm in Gryffindor It sounds by far the best". Hermione desires to be in Gryffindor because it was the "best" in her opinion and further in that passage she says that Dumbledore was in Gryffindor. PS/SS Chapter 6, Ron responds to Harry's inquiry about which house Ron's brothers are in thusly "Gryffindor," said Ron. Gloom seemed to be settling on him again. "Mom and Dad were in it too. I don't know what they'll say if I'm not." Ron desires to be in a particular house because he thinks he'll disappoint his parents if he isn't sorted there. PS/SS Chapter 7 we have Harry's take on the Sorting. "Harry gripped the edges of the stool and thought, Not Slytherin, not Slytherin" Dumbledore explains how the Sorting Hat sorts in CoS Chapter 18. "It only put me in Gryffindor," said Harry in a defeated voice "because I asked not to go in Slytherin." "Exactly," said Dumbledore .."It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." I understand Dumbledore to mean that the Sorting Hat takes the student's choices/wants/desires into consideration along with the student's ability. Perhaps Ron was thinking "Please put me in Gryffindor" or Hermione was thinking "I want to be in Gryffindor". Maybe Cho Chang thought during her Sorting "Ravenclaw is for smarties, so I belong there." This might also explain why the Patil Twins are in separate Houses. Perhaps, Parvati thought "Don't put me in the same house with Padma" or why Fred and George are in the same house "Please put me in the same house with Fred" Now the question is why did Hermione choose to be in Gryffindor rather than Ravenclaw if she is the "cleverest witch"? Could it be that Hermione doesn't think she is clever at all? If so, then is Hermione memorizing textbooks and studying very intensely because she is insecure about her "smarts"? Her boggart was Professor McGonagall telling her that she failed. Hmmmm. :-)Milz From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 5 18:26:37 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:26:37 -0000 Subject: Christmas Card for Jo In-Reply-To: <90cemc+jj64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90jc0t+a6ne@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6379 > Suzanne Burns wrote: > > Oh get her one that will sing very loudly unless she weighs it down > with a > > book! > > > > LOL > > > Yeah, but what'll happen if she throws a hardcover GoF down on it? :) From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 5 20:46:55 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:46:55 -0000 Subject: PG-13 rated joke In-Reply-To: <3A2C80F6.BA84B0BA@wicca.net> Message-ID: <90jk7v+g2ja@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6380 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > > So it occurred to me that there should be one for each position on the > Quidditch team, and here are my pathetic efforts: > BEATERS HAVE BIG BATS > SEEKERS DO AMAZING THINGS WITH THEIR BROOMSTICKS > CHASERS KNOW HOW TO PUT IT IN > KEEPERS TAKE CARE OF THREE HOLES AT ONCE LOL! But why should Quidditch players have all the fun? DARK WIZARDS HAVE LONGER WANDS DEMENTORS DO IT IN THE 'HOOD AURORS DO IT UNDERCOVER ANIMAGI DO IT IN THE WILD or ANIMAGI GO AT IT LIKE ANIMALS - CMC From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 5 23:53:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:53:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Creevey brothers References: <90jb1e+tpea@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2D7FFE.4055D2B9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6381 nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: > Put these together (and leave aside that immaculate conception Lucas > threw in on us!) and you get the notion that if there's a > Spoonbender Gene, it's genetically dominant- this of course begs the > question of why are they a minority? Perhaps it's a case of a combination of genes. Individually, they do not influence talent significantly, but in combination, they flare to the fore. Sort of a more complicated version of blue eyes, where it can be carried but must come from both sides to show up physically. On the other hand, as I recall, there are dominant genes that still only show up a fraction of the time--I get a glimmer of memory involving attached earlobes. I don't recall the mechanics of this. But dominance has nothing to do with distribution or frequency--it just means that if the gene is there, its result will show. A very dominant gene can have a very small distribution, and the actual increase of the percentage of those having the gene in the population as a whole changes only very slowly---as the minority with the dominant gene have kids, so does everyone else, so the spread of such things tends to be very slow. In any case, if the Creevy brothers had the same parents, I see no reason for them both to have had the talent. An accident of birth. Like one or two blue-eyeds, in a gaggle of dark-eyed kids. They just happened to get the combination. Who says they're the only Creevy kids? My children will all be tall, taller than me or their dad, because they get it from my mom's side. It skipped a generation, but came through in all three. Random selection doeth weird things. --Amanda From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 6 00:55:00 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 00:55:00 -0000 Subject: MOVIE Latest News Message-ID: <90k2p4+9l4b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6382 Hi all Just got back from brat-sitting, and have some news for you all. Warner Bros Productions are short of 250 extras for the Quidditch match scenes they hope to be filming very shortly. Seems like one of the brats I care for has an audition coming up... I will keep my fingers crossed - if he gets a part as an extra, I could get to go to the set at Levesden Studios in Hertfordshire - which would be great! Nick. (PS... don't email me for info on getting a part - WB have approached drama/stage schools in the South of England to get the extras they need) From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 6 01:01:31 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 01:01:31 -0000 Subject: Radio 4 - On The Net Message-ID: <90k35b+96d2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6383 Hi all Just checked my mail... Here is the News A BBC representative (someone very high up in Radio 4) has said that the Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone reading on 26th December (12:00-20:00 GMT) will be simulstreamed live on the web. When I get more info... will let our non-uk members know where they need to log on to hear the broadcast. Nick. From terzarima at earthlink.net Wed Dec 6 01:05:08 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:05:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] MOVIE Latest News References: <90k2p4+9l4b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2D90C4.93773FAC@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6384 Geeeez! This is really the season for British kids who take drama lessons! Lucky stiffs!! --Suzanne nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > Hi all > > Just got back from brat-sitting, and have some news for you all. > > Warner Bros Productions are short of 250 extras for the Quidditch > match scenes they hope to be filming very shortly. Seems like one of > the brats I care for has an audition coming up... I will keep my > fingers crossed - if he gets a part as an extra, I could get to go to > the set at Levesden Studios in Hertfordshire - which would be great! > > Nick. > (PS... don't email me for info on getting a part - WB have approached > drama/stage schools in the South of England to get the extras they > need) > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From terzarima at earthlink.net Wed Dec 6 01:05:28 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:05:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Radio 4 - On The Net References: <90k35b+96d2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2D90D8.D8B327CB@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6385 Yippie!! nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > Hi all > > Just checked my mail... Here is the News > > A BBC representative (someone very high up in Radio 4) has said that > the Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone reading on 26th December > (12:00-20:00 GMT) will be simulstreamed live on the web. > > When I get more info... will let our non-uk members know where they > need to log on to hear the broadcast. > > Nick. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From ara_kel at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 01:41:52 2000 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:41:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wizard Genetics Message-ID: <20001206014152.9993.qmail@web1505.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6386 >>>>Put these together (and leave aside that immaculate conception Lucas threw in on us!) and you get the notion that if there's a Spoonbender Gene, it's genetically dominant- this of course begs the question of why are they a minority? <<<<< I don't think it would be possible for the wizarding gene to be dominant. In this case, the allele for wizarding abilities would be dominant (W), while the gene for no wizarding abilities would be recessive (w). People with the genotypes WW and Ww would all be wizards, while people with the genotype ww would be Muggles. However, two people who are Muggles (ww) could not possibly produce a child with even one of the dominant alleles: w w w ww ww w ww ww There is no way two Muggle parents could produce a Muggle-born wizard baby, yet Muggle-borns seem to be common in Harry's world. That would work only if the wizarding gene were recessive. Science aside, genetics seems far too mundane a way for wizarding abilities to be handed out. It would be simple to run a test on every baby to check for the wizarding gene (although this is a possibility - parents are told at the birth that their child is a wizard, and this is why none of them seem upset about letting their children go off to Hogwarts.) However, I seem to remember Colin Creevy saying that his family was shocked to find out that he was a wizard, so this seems unlikely. Sarah ===== Don't refuse to go on an occasional wild goose chase. That's what wild geese are for. -- Anon. One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 02:33:20 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 02:33:20 -0000 Subject: MOVIE Latest News In-Reply-To: <90k2p4+9l4b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90k8hg+mo8u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6387 > Just got back from brat-sitting, and have some news for you all. I take it this is not a favourite pastime of yours? > Warner Bros Productions are short of 250 extras for the Quidditch > match scenes they hope to be filming very shortly Didn't you think that they needed an adult to play the part of a visting alumnus...namely you? (PS... don't email me for info on getting a part - WB have approached drama/stage schools in the South of England to get the extras they > need) Oh well I may be involved in drama but I'm on the other side of this rather large lake and that must be why I wasn't contacted...sigh Scott From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 6 03:05:39 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 22:05:39 -0500 Subject: Crossposting: Golden Toad Voting References: <975999837.74417@egroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2DAD03.6C73BB5E@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6388 I just saw on Fanfiction.net- the voting has started on the Golden Toads - lots of people on these 3 lists have been nominated (some are up against each other) and it's also a good way, if you haven't read a lot of fanfiction, to get a set of links to some VERY good stories - anyhow, the list, and the button to click to vote is at http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/toadpoll.html From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 6 03:21:38 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 21:21:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crossposting: Golden Toad Voting References: <975999837.74417@egroups.com> <3A2DAD03.6C73BB5E@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A2DB0C2.FE2FA4A6@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6389 Hi -- Any idea how long the voting goes on for the Golden Toads? I haven't read too much of the fics nominated in some of the categories and would like to do so before voting. Anyone involved in the Golden Toads care to comment? Penny heidi wrote: > I just saw on Fanfiction.net- the voting has started on the Golden > Toads - lots of people on these 3 lists have been nominated (some are > up against each other) and it's also a good way, if you haven't read a > lot of fanfiction, to get a set of > links to some VERY good stories - anyhow, the list, and the button to > click to vote is at http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/toadpoll.html > > > eGroups Sponsor [Click Here!] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 6 03:48:56 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 03:48:56 -0000 Subject: Sorry... (OT) In-Reply-To: <90gnu5+ckbl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90kcv8+6lb4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6390 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > I think there was a split infinitive in there too, but I won't boldly > go there. > > Winston Churchill famously put down a government official who > corrected his placement of prepositions at the end of sentences. He > commented, in red ink: > > "This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put." > George Bernard Shaw once wrote of a critic who attacked him for splitting infinitives, "If only he will leave, I do not care whether he chooses to leave quickly or to quickly leave." Besides, the alleged ungrammatical nature of the so-called split infinitive is open to debate. It derives from a mistaken application of Latin grammar (in which the infinitive is always a single word; e.g. accio = I summon, accire = to summon - but in Latin, all declensions of the verb are a single word, as opposed to English - I summon, she summons, they summon, we were going to summon, they have been summoning, etc) Bill Bryson, in The Mother Tongue: English and How It Got That Way wrote "I can think of two very good reasons for not splitting an infinitive (1) Because you feel that the rules of English ought to conform to the grammatical precepts of a language that died a thousand years ago (2) Because you wish to cling to a pointless affectation of usage that is without support of any recognized authority of the last 200 years, even at the cost of composing sentences that are ambiguous, inelegant and patently contorted." - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 6 04:48:23 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:48:23 -0000 Subject: Animagi - Pronunciation Message-ID: <90kgen+dsar@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6391 I'm working on another song, this time about the Animagi: how is the word pronounced? I assume the word ends with a "j" rather than a hard "g", and with a long "i" rather than a long "e" (as in Gift of the Magi)- but I could be wrong - how is it rendered in the audiotapes? - CM ("stop me before I sing again") C From kippesp at swbell.net Wed Dec 6 05:47:33 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (Paul Kippes) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:47:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi - Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <90kgen+dsar@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20001205234231.02c38e88@postoffice.swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6392 At 10:48 PM 12/5/2000, Caius wrote: >I'm working on another song, this time about the Animagi: how is the >word pronounced? I assume the word ends with a "j" rather than a >hard "g", and with a long "i" rather than a long "e" (as in Gift of >the Magi)- but I could be wrong - how is it rendered in the >audiotapes? Although Scholastic has a pronunciation guide (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/books/index.htm), their recordings of "Animagi" and "Animagus" are different than, say, JKR's. It could be an accent thing. But this is at least one way. From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Wed Dec 6 05:54:16 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:54:16 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi - Pronunciation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6393 In a message dated 12/6/00 12:51:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, kippesp at swbell.net writes: << At 10:48 PM 12/5/2000, Caius wrote: >I'm working on another song, this time about the Animagi: how is the >word pronounced? I assume the word ends with a "j" rather than a >hard "g", and with a long "i" rather than a long "e" (as in Gift of >the Magi)- but I could be wrong - how is it rendered in the >audiotapes? Although Scholastic has a pronunciation guide (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/books/index.htm), their recordings of "Animagi" and "Animagus" are different than, say, JKR's. It could be an accent thing. But this is at least one way. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jim Dale pronounces it ANI MA GEE I hope this helps Tessie From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 5 03:31:29 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:31:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] See ya in the funny papers References: <90ghee+qa4p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <025001c05e6b$dc5bf6e0$9fdd5d18@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6394 Alright, so Pippin snuck in before I could, grins. I've posted the strip in the files section. As it was cut out of my Repository, I did not remove the signature, or copywriter information or anything--so I hope I am not going to get in trouble with the List Moms! :) Enjoy! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 10:40 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] See ya in the funny papers > Welcome new adult fan Dagwood Bumstead of the Blondie comic strip, > age 70+ years and counting, who is studying philosophy this morning > with the aid of HP. > Pippin > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 6 07:39:49 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 07:39:49 -0000 Subject: The Mighty Marauders (song) Message-ID: <90kqg5+u45a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6395 Another in the ever-unpopular series: THE MIGHTY MARAUDERS WHO ARE ANIMAGI (to the tune of The Little Old Lady from Pasadena) (Enter JAMES POTTER, SIRIUS BLACK, REMUS LUPIN & PETER PETTIGREW, as youthful Hogwarts students) (Enter PERCY, FRED, GEORGE AND RON WEASLEY as BACKUP) ALL: We're the mighty Marauders who are Animagi BACKUP: Go Potter Go Potter Go Potter Go JP & PP: We've never been described as being stage-shy BACKUP Go Peter Go Peter Go Peter Go ALL: We're Remus and Sirius, Peter and James Forever will Hogwarts remember our names! JP & SB: When the full moon arose, Remus started a-howlin' RL: And my three friends said, "Here's a new way of prowlin' JP, SB, & PP: We'll learn advanced magic to take animal guise PP: As a rat, JP: a stag, SB: a canine ALL: we'll all make our surmise." ALL: We're the mighty Marauders who are Animagi JP & SB: Remus needn't worry, 'cause we got his backside BACKUP Go Remus Go Remus Go Remus Go PP & RL: We're not freakin' as we're seekin' for the Shriekin' Shackside BACKUP Go Lupin Go Lupin Go Lupin Go SB & PP: We'll be hailed in stories and fables and songs ALL: As Moony and Padfoot and Wormtail and Prongs (the Quartet suddenly grow to adult size) PP: When Remus was wolfin' he might have attacked us SB & JP: He's now a professor who can preach what he practiced RL: James is dead, Black was framed, and what about Peter? RL, SB & JP: Who'd ever have thought he'd become a Death Eater? ALL: But we once were Marauders who were Animagi ALL & BACKUP: Go Expecto! - CMC From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 5 05:25:01 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:25:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A Harry Potter Movie - in 1986! (Troll--OT) References: <90hom0+uegt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <038d01c05e7b$b8515460$9fdd5d18@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6396 I've seen Troll. It's a "cutsie" little movie that came out in the "Critters", "Gremlins" and whatever that one was that had the thing in the toilet pictured on the movie poster. "Goonies" also came out, I believe in the same time frame, but of course, that's a different plot--I loved Goonies, OST and all! (Asthma, hehe) I didn't love Troll. If it's on the television, and I wasn't quick enough to turn it off, I'd watch it--but not with Ian around. It is most likely to give children "closet" nightmares, if I am remembering correctly. I saw it in the 80's, so my memory could be slipping. If you want a copy desperately, try Yahoo-Auctions, or perhaps this url http://profiles.yahoo.com/kim_96734 will help (she's a great person to locate that oop movie you want! :) Usually her prices are reasonable, I picked up Ghostbusters for $2, MASH for about the same, and all together $40 worth of videos on my last outing with her, when I was still getting student loan checks. (These are MY movies. The Disneys came separately. Man cannot live by textbook alone.) (Winks) Now, that I have descended to a completely OT topic, think it might be time to wrap it up. If you want more leads on getting that movie cheap, just email me off list, ok? :) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caius Marcius" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 9:50 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A Harry Potter Movie - in 1986! > A search through the Internet Movie Database (one of the crown jewels > of the WWW) revealed that there has already been a Harry Potter > movie, appropriately enough on an occult theme. Troll (1986) > features both a Harry Potter Sr. (as performed by no less an actor > than Michael Moriarity) and a Harry Potter Jr. (played by one Noah > Hathaway, then 15 years old). The IMDB provides the following plot > synopsis, which interestingly enough seems to hint at Ginny Weasley's > actions in CoS: > > [begin quote] An evil troll, Torok, the transformed state of the ex- > husband of an old friendly witch named Eunice St. Clair, has chosen > her apartment building to be the heart of the restoration of the > world he once knew. To do this he uses an Emerald ring, and takes > possession of a little girl named Wendy, whose brother Harry > immediately suspects something wrong. Torok, often in the form of the > little girl, goes into each occupant's apartment, hideously > transforming people (beginning with Peter Dickinson, named after the > author/protagonist of _The Flight of Dragons_, which explores similar > themes) into plant pods. (Summary written by Scott Hutchins ) > > I have not seen this film, and I don't know whether its readily > available for rental. Troll, despite (or because of?) a cast > featuring Sonny Bono and Julia Louis-Dreyfus received a terrible > rating on the IMDB (but hey, I somehow don't think that miserable > hack Chris Columbus is gonna really do any better!) > > - CMC > > The Internet Movie Database is at > > http://www.imdb.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Dec 6 09:27:58 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:27:58 -0000 Subject: Wizard Genetics In-Reply-To: <20001206014152.9993.qmail@web1505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90l0qu+fp5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6397 > Science aside, genetics seems far too mundane a way > for wizarding abilities to be handed out. It would be > simple to run a test on every baby to check for the > wizarding gene (although this is a possibility - > parents are told at the birth that their child is a > wizard, and this is why none of them seem upset about > letting their children go off to Hogwarts.) However, > I seem to remember Colin Creevy saying that his family > was shocked to find out that he was a wizard, so this > seems unlikely. > > Sarah > I must say I agree with you. We have been told many times that wizardry excludes technology (and by implication, science) so it would be an obvious fallacy to subsume wizardry and its causes under science. Naama From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Wed Dec 6 10:49:53 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 05:49:53 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Mighty Marauders (song) Message-ID: <59.3d4d89d.275f73d1@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6398 That was BRILLIANT!!!! LOL From karob_7 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 14:14:59 2000 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (Karin ) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:14:59 -0000 Subject: The Mighty Marauders (song) In-Reply-To: <90kqg5+u45a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90lhl3+17qc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6399 Oohh..I think this is my favorite yet! Thanks for the great laugh this morning... Karin From eliasberg at ioc.net Wed Dec 6 17:51:42 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:51:42 -0000 Subject: A Harry Potter Movie - in 1986! (Troll--OT) In-Reply-To: <038d01c05e7b$b8515460$9fdd5d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <90lube+s3uu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6400 Dee, I have to agree Goonies was a great flick! Any movies that has a character named Sclock has to be good, and the soundtrack wasn't bad. I missed Troll however do you know who stared in it? Dave From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 6 20:50:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:50:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Genetics References: <90l0qu+fp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2EA6AC.D629D153@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6401 naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: > I must say I agree with you. We have been told many times that wizardry excludes technology > (and by implication, science) so it would be an obvious fallacy to subsume wizardry and its > causes under science. However, genetics and the passing of talents and characteristics was around for millions of years longer than the science thereof. Wizardry has to be genetically linked, to some degree, or there would never have been "wizarding" families, and squibs would not be the rarity they are. Genetics also, by way of the "hybrid vigor" effect, explains why the half-bloods and Muggles are often better at wizardry than the pure-bloods. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 6 21:05:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 15:05:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Limits on Magic (kinda long) References: <90i1p6+i62n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2EAA32.2FE9D540@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6402 Caius Marcius wrote: > But there are limits on > what medical magic can effect: The case of Mad-Eye Moody is perhaps > the best example: he is hideously scarred from his many battles with > Dark Wizards, and has lost (though the details of his encounters > remain frustratingly vague) a leg, an eye, and part of his nose. For > some reason, his injuries could not be repaired. This may be due to > the design of the Dark Wizards' hexes, which we may assume are > intended to be irreversible. Do not overlook the peculiarity of Moody's character. He might easily have opted not to have the damage repaired, for some reason that seemed good to him. Or was it stated anywhere, that I am not recalling, that his injuries could not be mended? Otherwise, wonderful thoughtful commentary as usual. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 6 21:08:41 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 15:08:41 -0600 Subject: Sucking them in... Message-ID: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6403 Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of which he understands one word in four. Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading at night, a la I Love Lucy? --Amanda From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 21:34:02 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 21:34:02 -0000 Subject: Sucking them in... In-Reply-To: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> Message-ID: <90mbca+sitv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6404 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. I too live in a mixed marriage - my two children are both fans, and even the dog will listen attentively! However, I think it is about to change. We have four tickets (so we're not taking the dog) for JKR's charity reading in Glasgow on Saturday - he will surely reach for Book 1 on our return home! Pam From pandora_lily at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 22:11:44 2000 From: pandora_lily at yahoo.com (Seattle de Taeloure) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:11:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... Message-ID: <20001206221144.16519.qmail@web511.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6405 I, too, am involved in a mixed relationship. So far, he's read the first eight pages of the SS. I'm trying to get him to read faster, but he just doesn't have the time. It is funny, though, when I look up at the night sky and say "Mars is bright tonight," and then see his very confused expression. I know he'll love the books, though. Raven --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to > read the first book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting > endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are > on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? > Subliminal reading at > night, a la I Love Lucy? > > --Amanda > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 6 22:12:40 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 16:12:40 -0600 Subject: Sucking them in... References: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A2EB9D8.D3D696A3@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6406 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first > book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading > at > night, a la I Love Lucy? Ah ..... when I finished SS, I immediately handed it to my spouse with the words "You *must* read this!" I think I had gulped down CoS and PoA before he even picked SS up. It took endless prodding & pleading, etc. to get him to read it. We're talking about someone who simply does not read for pleasure *at all* (yeah I know -- I wonder sometimes how we ever got hooked up). Anyway .... he eventually read SS & CoS and proclaimed that they were "okay." He even professed that he "knew" what was going to happen in each one -- he basically thought they were "good but juvenile." Then .... we took PoA to England with us, and he got very very hooked on that one. He looked up at one point and said, "Okay, *this* one is good." BTW, it's been my experience that men have enjoyed PoA and GoF much more than the earlier 2 books. He hasn't yet read GoF, but he did listen to the Jim Dale tapes of it and says he would like to read it at some point. He liked the Dale recordings so much that he has listened to them all once at this point too. Those audio-tapes are a life-saver in Houston traffic, believe me! We are reading SS to our baby with a fetal microphone each night, and he's laughing out loud at it. He will never be an obsessed fan, but he is HP-literate and will generally speak up on behalf of the wonder of HP at gatherings. He does remember to bring me Wall Street Jrnl clippings about HP. He has drawn the line with fanfic, however. He read the first few chapters of PoU, declared it "girlie" and hasn't bothered to even try to read ASA at all! Sigh. Oh well. I wish he were closer to obsession ... but I'll settle for HP-literate. :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 6 22:38:06 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:38:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... Message-ID: <14.c8ec556.276019ce@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6407 In a message dated 12/6/00 4:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading at > night, a la I Love Lucy? > > --Amanda > Aha! The old subliminal messages. There's something I haven't tried. (uses spooky, hypnotic voice) *You will read Harry Potter. Harry Potter is the greatest. You will read all 4 books and discuss them with Maureen. You will buy her a fur coat...* -Mo Who over the Holidays WILL convert her husband. ~8^ ) "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mellyf at indianvalley.com Thu Dec 7 02:59:50 2000 From: mellyf at indianvalley.com (Melissa F) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:59:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... References: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> Message-ID: <003401c05ff9$c5975aa0$dcbc17d0@softfarm.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6408 Hee hee....I *finally* got my husband to start reading them. He's finished SS and has started CoS. He's been converted. ;-) Melissa F ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading at > night, a la I Love Lucy? > > --Amanda > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From waghorne at ma.ultranet.com Thu Dec 7 03:06:55 2000 From: waghorne at ma.ultranet.com (Ken Waghorne) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:06:55 -500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... In-Reply-To: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A2EB87F.32058.8D500E@localhost> No: HPFGUIDX 6409 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading at > night, a la I Love Lucy? Conversion here. The day before we headed out on vacation, I went to the local bookstore and picked up the audio tape for Book 1. The kids were eager to listen to it as we took off the next day, but my wife didn't seem so enthusiastic. At first. However, within the first 30 minutes she was hooked, and we had a hard time stopping the car for anything on that drive. We finished Book 1 quickly, and were immersed in Book 2 by the time the trip ended. The kids wouldn't let Mom listen to the tape without them, so she had to wait until she could get the books back from her brother before proceeding. The only problem I faced was that she was tempted to transfer her anger at Snape over to me ... the night she read his comment about Hermione's teeth was particularly tense! Ken aka Hound Fan aka Boston... From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Thu Dec 7 03:49:33 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile ) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 03:49:33 -0000 Subject: A map of Hogwarts. . . Message-ID: <90n1ce+ecmv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6410 Awhile ago, before reading any of the Harry Potter books, I came across this map of Hogwarts (complete, with the forbidden Forest, the lake, everything) in a weekly US magazine (and, of course, illustrated by Mary GrandPr?). Do any of you remember which magazine? From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 7 03:44:06 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 21:44:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A map of Hogwarts. . . References: <90n1ce+ecmv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2F0785.54B59220@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6411 Hi -- Odile wrote: > Awhile ago, before reading any of the Harry Potter books, I came > across this map of Hogwarts (complete, with the forbidden Forest, the > lake, everything) in a weekly US magazine (and, of course, > illustrated by Mary GrandPr?). Do any of you remember which magazine? Time magazine -- September 1999. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Dec 7 03:59:34 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:59:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A map of Hogwarts. . . References: <90n1ce+ecmv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009701c06002$1d62f700$4caf20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6412 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Odile " Awhile ago, before reading any of the Harry Potter books, I came across this map of Hogwarts (complete, with the forbidden Forest, the lake, everything) in a weekly US magazine (and, of course, illustrated by Mary GrandPr). Do any of you remember which magazine? ********************* There was one in Time magazine from September 20, 1999. That had all the hotspots...Hogwarts, platform 9 3/4, the forbidden forest, Hagrid's cabin, Hogsmead, Diagon Alley, and the Durseley's. I'm not sure that is the one you are thinking of. Perhaps some of our more collector types would know? carole To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From kippesp at swbell.net Thu Dec 7 05:17:51 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 05:17:51 -0000 Subject: What's the platform number? Message-ID: <90n6hv+73is@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6413 I'm probably just being picky, but why did Mother Weasley ask this in SS/PS when the family arrived at the station? I've always had the impression that there was only one platform to board THE train to Hogwarts. And from later books, we know that she must already know having been a student there. Fortunately, little Ginny knows the answer (and she hasn't even been for all we know). Being excited, she must have read the letter/ticket. Surprisingly, I don't recall anyone questioning the capacity of the train when we had our lengthy discussions about the number of students. (I could, however, have VERY easily missed it.) Perhaps there are multiple platforms justifying Ms. Weasley's question. Curious. Very curious indeed... From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 04:53:39 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:53:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A map of Hogwarts. . . References: <90n1ce+ecmv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011101c06009$aec6a500$9fdd5d18@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6414 TIME! Grins. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Odile " To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:49 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A map of Hogwarts. . . Awhile ago, before reading any of the Harry Potter books, I came across this map of Hogwarts (complete, with the forbidden Forest, the lake, everything) in a weekly US magazine (and, of course, illustrated by Mary GrandPr). Do any of you remember which magazine? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From alehsen_paris at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 07:49:38 2000 From: alehsen_paris at yahoo.com (A'Lehsen Paris) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:49:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] What's the platform number? Message-ID: <20001207074938.2815.qmail@web1105.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6415 Okay, I'm new to this group. *waves* You can call me Ally. Anyway, I thought about this as I was reading your suggestion, and I think you might be right. I mean, there could be a 10 and three quarters and lower or something, and each platform could be allotted a certain amout of compartments and passengers....of course, I wasn't around for the original discussion, so I'm a bit out of the loop here anyway, but that would seem reasonable to me if they had as many students as a "normal" private school with so many grades in it has, which I believe can be as many as five hundred students. ~Ally --- smitster wrote: > I'm probably just being picky, but why did Mother > Weasley ask this in > SS/PS when the family arrived at the station? I've > always had the > impression that there was only one platform to board > THE train to > Hogwarts. And from later books, we know that she > must already know > having been a student there. Fortunately, little > Ginny knows the > answer (and she hasn't even been for all we know). > Being excited, > she must have read the letter/ticket. > > Surprisingly, I don't recall anyone questioning the > capacity of the > train when we had our lengthy discussions about the > number of > students. (I could, however, have VERY easily > missed it.) Perhaps > there are multiple platforms justifying Ms. > Weasley's question. > > Curious. Very curious indeed... > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Dec 7 07:58:54 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:58:54 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What's the platform number? References: <20001207074938.2815.qmail@web1105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c06023$8c392110$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6416 Hi everyone, I'm new here too. The trains around here probably take about 750 people by my calculation (each carriage has top and bottom, left and right, and about 12 rows of two-person seats in each of those 4 orientations. That makes 12*2*4 = 96 people in a carriage and we have eight carriages in a train, so 768 total. I would say that adding other fractional platform numbers is stretching it, to me it was quite clear that all Hogwarts students and former-students knew about 9.75. Simon. > Okay, I'm new to this group. *waves* You can call me > Ally. > > Anyway, I thought about this as I was reading your > suggestion, and I think you might be right. I mean, > there could be a 10 and three quarters and lower or > something, and each platform could be allotted a > certain amout of compartments and passengers....of > course, I wasn't around for the original discussion, > so I'm a bit out of the loop here anyway, but that > would seem reasonable to me if they had as many > students as a "normal" private school with so many > grades in it has, which I believe can be as many as > five hundred students. > > ~Ally From endahwidiastuti at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 08:04:00 2000 From: endahwidiastuti at yahoo.com (Endah W) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:04:00 +0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... In-Reply-To: <003401c05ff9$c5975aa0$dcbc17d0@softfarm.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6417 Hi, my name is Endah from Indonesia. I'm a student in senior high school.. I like HP very much.. after I read HP i just can't hardly wait the next...the next... the next new HP book... at least HP is the new HERO in my class. (sometimes WE read it in the classroom).. hehehe.. My teacher *must* read HP..!! endah ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sucking them in... > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading at > night, a la I Love Lucy? > > --Amanda > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 7 08:57:18 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 08:57:18 -0000 Subject: Wizard Genetics In-Reply-To: <3A2EA6AC.D629D153@texas.net> Message-ID: <90njde+sqq7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6418 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > naama_gat at h... wrote: > > > I must say I agree with you. We have been told many times that wizardry excludes technology > > (and by implication, science) so it would be an obvious fallacy to subsume wizardry and its > > causes under science. > > However, genetics and the passing of talents and characteristics was around for millions of > years longer than the science thereof. Wizardry has to be genetically linked, to some degree, > or there would never have been "wizarding" families, and squibs would not be the rarity they > are. Genetics also, by way of the "hybrid vigor" effect, explains why the half-bloods and > Muggles are often better at wizardry than the pure-bloods. > > --Amanda I agree that the "heredity" of wizardry seems analogous to heredity of physiological traits. However, I still maintain that its causes are categorically different from the causes of genetic heredity (=>DNA, genes, recombinations, mutations..). The whole point of magic is that it is a sphere of existence with a different causality than our physical reality. (That is, after all, why the Dursleys are so afraid of Harry - he is a focal point of powers that are inexplicable for them, that they cannot control or understand. He represents disorder.) Magic is a different view of the world than science, so the way it is passed to children should be explicable in magical terms, not scientific ones. Naama From anglinsbees at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 11:30:26 2000 From: anglinsbees at yahoo.com (Ellen Anglin) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:30:26 -0000 Subject: Madeye Moody/ was The Limits on Magic In-Reply-To: <3A2EAA32.2FE9D540@texas.net> Message-ID: <90nsci+onb9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6419 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Do not overlook the peculiarity of Moody's character. He might easily have > opted not to have the damage repaired, for some reason that seemed good to > him. Or was it stated anywhere, that I am not recalling, that his injuries > could not be mended? > > Otherwise, wonderful thoughtful commentary as usual. > > --Amanda I agree- a wizard who is too paranoid to allow others to prepare his food and drink, probably wouldn't trust another to do cosmetic or reconstructive surgery on him. (This makes me wonder what his reaction to being nursed by Madame Pomfrey will be- will he trust her since she works for Dumbledore? Would the real Moody have eaten and drunk the food at the teaches table? Depends on how much he trusts those associated with Dumbledore- It was, after all advantageous for Crouch to use Moody's known paranoia as cover for his actions. I do like the Idea that some hexes are not reversible or curable tho- why else would there be a St. Mungos hospital for magical maladies? Ellen From rhodhry at yahoo.no Thu Dec 7 12:32:13 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:32:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] What's the platform number? Message-ID: <20001207123213.15784.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6420 Answering before I have seen if anyone else have answered this, I suspect that the capacity of the Hogwarts express at any given time is equal to the need. I suspect that a simiar type of magic is at play in the common-rooms and dorms of the different houses at Hogwarts. 'If rooms at Hogwarts can appear and dissappear at random, or at will (such as the room of bedpans Dumbledore mentioned at the banquet of the Yule ball), then the Hogwarts express can easily adapt to the needs. --- smitster skrev: > I'm probably just being picky, but why did Mother Weasley ask this in > > SS/PS when the family arrived at the station? I've always had the > impression that there was only one platform to board THE train to > Hogwarts. And from later books, we know that she must already know > having been a student there. Fortunately, little Ginny knows the > answer (and she hasn't even been for all we know). Being excited, > she must have read the letter/ticket. > > Surprisingly, I don't recall anyone questioning the capacity of the > train when we had our lengthy discussions about the number of > students. (I could, however, have VERY easily missed it.) Perhaps > there are multiple platforms justifying Ms. Weasley's question. > > Curious. Very curious indeed... ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From rhodhry at yahoo.no Thu Dec 7 12:43:56 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:43:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: More on the Hogwarts express. Message-ID: <20001207124356.16689.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6421 JKR stated in a recent chat (well, a month and a half ago or so) that there are 1000 students at Hogwarts. The Hogwarts express is a traditional British steam-powered passenger-train. The passenger-carriages that you describe sound to me like the commuter-trains on the American East-coast, or the new German two-story regional trains - am I right in this understanding? The Hogwarts express passenger-carriages would have one story only, and would have a single corridor along one side of the carriage, with compartments being the width of ca. 2/3-3/4 the carriage-width, with each compartment having 6 seats, 3 and 3 facing each other. A typical muggle-carriage of this design would have, I believe, 8-11 compartments. It is not a given, with the Hogwarts express, however, that the external and internal dimensions of the carriages are related. Watch British productions of those of Agatha Christie's murder-mysteries that invole trains to see what types of carriages I am talking about. --- Simon Biber skrev: > Hi everyone, I'm new here too. > > The trains around here probably take about 750 people by my > calculation > (each carriage has top and bottom, left and right, and about 12 rows > of > two-person seats in each of those 4 orientations. That makes 12*2*4 = > 96 > people in a carriage and we have eight carriages in a train, so 768 > total. > > I would say that adding other fractional platform numbers is > stretching it, > to me it was quite clear that all Hogwarts students and > former-students knew > about 9.75. > > Simon. > > > Okay, I'm new to this group. *waves* You can call me > > Ally. > > > > Anyway, I thought about this as I was reading your > > suggestion, and I think you might be right. I mean, > > there could be a 10 and three quarters and lower or > > something, and each platform could be allotted a > > certain amout of compartments and passengers....of > > course, I wasn't around for the original discussion, > > so I'm a bit out of the loop here anyway, but that > > would seem reasonable to me if they had as many > > students as a "normal" private school with so many > > grades in it has, which I believe can be as many as > > five hundred students. > > > > ~Ally > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 7 13:39:28 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 7 Dec 2000 05:39:28 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Transportation (Was: Wizard Schools and Transportation Message-ID: <20001207133928.3983.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6422 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 7 13:48:26 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 7 Dec 2000 05:48:26 -0800 Subject: prepositions & grammar Message-ID: <20001207134826.4138.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6423 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 7 14:42:21 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 7 Dec 2000 06:42:21 -0800 Subject: What's the platform number? Message-ID: <20001207144221.5217.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6424 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 7 17:40:03 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:40:03 -0000 Subject: The Goonies In-Reply-To: <90lube+s3uu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90oi1j+n0in@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6425 eliasberg at i... wrote: >Goonies was a great flick! I can't say I share your enthusiasm for The Goonies, the only thing I liked about it was the place it was shot in, Astoria Oregon, the most beautiful little town I've ever been in. The Goonies was written by Chris Columbus, the same fellow who's directing the new Harry Potter movie, that's why I have this horrible feeling it's going to turn into the Little Rascals on broomsticks. Harry Potter has depth and I'm skeptical Columbus is up to the challenge, I hope I'm wrong. From r.yoo at scotland.com Thu Dec 7 18:43:52 2000 From: r.yoo at scotland.com (r.yoo at scotland.com) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 18:43:52 -0000 Subject: Creevey Brothers and Genetics Message-ID: <90olp8+grmk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6426 Instead of the "wizarding gene" being recessive it is possible that it is "sex-linked". An example of a sex-linked gene is colorblindness, which is found mostly in males. This would explain why both Creevey brothers are wizards even though their parents are Muggles, however that doesn't explain Hermione. There are women who are colorblind, but that is usually as a result of some other gene, not the sex-linked gene that causes it in males. Not to be mean, Hermione could be the result of a mutation. Do we know really how big a proportion of kids are from Muggle families? Or how many are wizarding siblings from Muggle parents? Is it rare? There are probably even more complex genetic explanations, but I sort of zoned out half way through my semester of genetics :) Rebecca From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 7 19:07:53 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:07:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Creevey Brothers and Genetics References: <90olp8+grmk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A2FE009.317B636D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6427 Hi -- r.yoo at scotland.com wrote: > Instead of the "wizarding gene" being recessive it is possible that it > > is "sex-linked". An example of a sex-linked gene is colorblindness, > which is found mostly in males. This would explain why both Creevey > brothers are wizards even though their parents are Muggles, however > that doesn't explain Hermione. There are women who are colorblind, > but that is usually as a result of some other gene, not the sex-linked > > gene that causes it in males. Not to be mean, Hermione could be the > result of a mutation. Do we know really how big a proportion of kids > are from Muggle families? Or how many are wizarding siblings from > Muggle parents? Is it rare? > I know *nothing* about genetics really, but I don't think it's likely that it's sex-linked because Hermione is not the only muggle-born female that we know. Lily (Evans) Potter was also apparently muggle-born. So .... it seems unlikely to me that it's sex-linked. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From magicalhp at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 20:49:45 2000 From: magicalhp at yahoo.com (magicalhp at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:49:45 -0000 Subject: HP Christmas Message-ID: <90ot59+iijp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6428 Hey all, :) I'm trying to put together a little thing (for lack of a better word ) about adding a touch of Harry Potter to one's Christmas celebrations...ie weaving in some British customs and traditions. If anyone has any ideas, suggestions, facts, etc, I'd love to hear them. :) Cheers, Rachel http://www.magicalharrypotter.com From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 22:48:32 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 22:48:32 -0000 Subject: The secret of St. Nick and a HP Christmas In-Reply-To: <90ot59+iijp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90p440+u14q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6429 Year after year millions of children wonder about how Santa gets around the WHOLE world in just one night, but that seems to be all over now that JKR has given it away. How, you ask? A Time Turner, and LOTS of Floo powder of course!!! (My only question is where that sleigh & reindeer story came from.) WAIT! Here's another question- Does the wizarding world have Santa? I don't think we've seen any explicit evidence of it, but if so he would definetly be real, and he'd be a wizard too I expect. > I'm trying to put together a little thing (for lack of a better > word ) about adding a touch of Harry Potter to one's Christmas > celebrations...ie weaving in some British customs and traditions. > > If anyone has any ideas, suggestions, facts, etc, I'd love to hear > them. :) As an American I think some of us picture an English Christmas as being something straight out of Dickens. So before I tell you that you will be visited by three spirits (Christmas past, present, and future), or give you the recipe for Christmas Pudding, I think I shall let the Brits on the list have a go at it! http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/db/6/M/maggiecooperschristm_2392.sht ml (Oops to late on that pudding part!) Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 23:02:43 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:02:43 -0000 Subject: What's the platform number? In-Reply-To: <20001207144221.5217.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <90p4uj+d3r0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6430 > > I'm probably just being picky, but why did Mother Weasley ask this in SS/PS when the family arrived at the station? I've always had the impression that there was only one platform to board THE train to Hogwarts. And from later books, we know that she must already know having been a student there. Fortunately, little Ginny knows the answer (and she hasn't even been for all we know). Being excited, she must have read the letter/ticket. > > I simply assumed that Molly Weasley was feigning ignorance, because she knew that Ginny would pipe up with the answer. Kids love it when they can "show up" their parents. > This is the best explanation I can think of for Molly Wesealy's questioning of something that it seems she already knew. But thank goodness she DID ask or Harry might still be wandering around King's Cross. BTW, if you want to access that recipe on my last post you'll have to copy and paste b/c it didn't get all on one line... Scott From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 23:43:30 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 23:43:30 -0000 Subject: Volunteers for this week's summaries...? Message-ID: <90p7b2+o4cf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6431 THE UNEXPECTED TASK(S) We've just received an owl from Dave Hardenbrook to say that he can't prepare this week's discussion summaries as scheduled. If anyone is prepared to summon up a short order summary of Chapter 22 of GoF - the ironically-titled "The Unexpected Task" - and/or a profile of misty charlatan, Professor Trelawney, please let me know. Joywitch had previously received messages from some members willing to step in at short notice and if those undoubtedly gifted writers are still up for it, let me know. The same goes to anyone else who fancies the job. As this is such short notice, it might be sensible to allocate Ch22 to one person and Prof Trelawney to another, so let me know which you'd rather do. Thanks! Neil neilward at dircon.co.uk UM, READ THIS IF YOU ARE CONFUSED BY THE ABOVE For the benefit of new or confused members, we have been working through the Chapters of "Goblet of Fire" week by week discussing summaries prepared by members of the club. Each chapter summary is paired with a character summary and, in both cases, the writer poses a few questions for discussion at the end. The summaries are usually posted on Mondays but if they don't pop up as expected Joywitch and myself mount our racing brooms and chase the volunteer into a dark spinny for questioning. If they don't sing, we look for another mug... er, Muggle to do the job. Savvy? You can view the full schedule of summaries for future weeks here: http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/grownups.html From john at walton.to Fri Dec 8 00:10:46 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 00:10:46 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: prepositions & grammar (OT) In-Reply-To: <20001207134826.4138.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6432 voicelady at mymailstation.com at voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > On Mon, 04 December 2000, "Scott " wrote: > >> NEVER END A SENTENCE IN A PREPOSITION!!! > > Actually, I once had a professor in college (oh so long ago) who said, "A > preposition is a perfectly good word to end a sentence with." I'll never > forget it. > > Voicelady Of course, there's always Winston Churchill's diatribe on this: "It is a rule up with which we should not put." --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#125 Should I actually decide to kill the hero in an elaborate escape-proof deathtrap room (water filling up, sand pouring down, walls converging, etc.) I will not leave him alone five-to-ten minutes prior to "imminent" death, but will instead (finding a vantage point or monitoring camera) stick around and enjoy watching my adversary's demise. ======================================== From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Dec 8 02:21:33 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 02:21:33 -0000 Subject: Indonesia [was sucking them in...] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90pgjd+86db@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6433 Welcome, endah -- I hope that you enjoy this e-Group. We have some very good discussions here that I hope you find interesting. I have a question about the HP books in Indonesia -- are they available in Bahasa Indonesia or only in English? This group has a very good collection of international book covers, and have recently added Indonesia, but I am not sure which language the books are written in. -Jim Flanagan > Hi, my name is Endah from Indonesia. > I'm a student in senior high school.. I like HP very much.. > after I read HP i just can't hardly wait the next...the next... the next new > HP book... > at least HP is the new HERO in my class. (sometimes WE read it in the > classroom).. hehehe.. > My teacher *must* read HP..!! > > endah From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 8 03:55:30 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:55:30 -0000 Subject: The secret of St. Nick and a HP Christmas In-Reply-To: <90p440+u14q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90pm3i+dodk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6434 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Year after year millions of children wonder about how Santa gets > around the WHOLE world in just one night, but that seems to be all > over now that JKR has given it away. > > How, you ask? > A Time Turner, and LOTS of Floo powder of course!!! > > (My only question is where that sleigh & reindeer story came from.) > I think it likely that the sleigh was enchanted by Santa, just as Arthur Weasley enchanted his Muggles car, and that the reindeer are Santa's house-elves who also just happen to also be animagi. - CMC (could a song be derived from the above?) From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 8 04:09:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:09:43 -0000 Subject: The Goonies In-Reply-To: <90oi1j+n0in@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90pmu7+e9e3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6435 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > eliasberg at i... wrote: > > >Goonies was a great flick! > > I can't say I share your enthusiasm for The Goonies, the only thing I > liked about it was the place it was shot in, Astoria Oregon, the most > beautiful little town I've ever been in. IIRC, the Schwarzenegger vehicle Kindergarden Cop was also shot in Astoria. I visited there five years ago - it is a cool place. The Goonies was written by > Chris Columbus, the same fellow who's directing the new Harry Potter > movie, that's why I have this horrible feeling it's going to turn > into the Little Rascals on broomsticks. Harry Potter has depth and > I'm skeptical Columbus is up to the challenge, I hope I'm wrong. I agree - IM(sort of)HO, giving Columbus the job of bringing HP to the silver screen would be like having Neville Longbottom compete in the Triwizards Tournament. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 8 04:33:45 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:33:45 -0000 Subject: Sucking them in... In-Reply-To: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> Message-ID: <90pob9+qb0l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6436 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first book. > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > which he understands one word in four. > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading at > night, a la I Love Lucy? My wife much prefers murder mysteries and legal fictions (Cornwall, Grisham, etc) and she rarely reads fantasy, sci-fi, or anything labeled as children's literature (hey, we're DINKs, although I work with kids professionally). Anyway, a couple months ago, I suggested she try the first HP book just to see if she liked it. SHE LOVED IT! Not only that, she read volumes 2-4 in (a) hardcover, even though she hates to read even her favorite authors in hardcover, and (b) rapidly - she read all four books in about three weeks - her usual speed is about one book per month. She doesn't have a good memory for what she reads (so she wouldn't get into all the nitty-gritty discussion in which we rejoice) and she would never post on an HP discussion (nor would she on any other subject in the entire universe), but I was still very pleasantly surprised by her reactions. OTOH, none of my co-workers have yet to evidence any knowledge of HP - e.g, for an interoffice newsletter that I routineli compose, I have recently taken to paste in examples of HP fanart (in lieu of my usual choice of Warner Bros. toons) - these drawings have attracted many inquiries, although their significance would be immediately obvious to any HP reader. I've used this an opportunity to proselyte on behalf on JKR - to no avail as yet, but I remain steadfast in faith. - CMC From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 8 04:53:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 04:53:21 -0000 Subject: The Limits on Magic (kinda long) In-Reply-To: <90i1p6+i62n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90ppg1+tvaf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6437 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > (snip) > (3) Skills and knowledge cannot be obtained by magical methods. We don't know that this applies to Muggle skills and knowledge -- all we see them studying is Magic skills and knowledge. Maybe you have to *work* to learn to make Potions, but then you can make a Potion that will make you know how to speak and read French. (snip) > We've heard little about cheating on exams at Hogwarts, Only that they took their first year finals with special quills that had been enchanted with an Anti Cheating Spell. (snip) > (4) Most poignantly of all, material possessions cannot be > magically acquired, We don't know this of Muggle possessions, only of Magic possessions. Harry can't transfigure a rock into a Firebolt, but maybe he could transfigure a rock into a new dress robe for Ron if only he had thought of it, and asked Hermione to look up the spell. (snip) > And this isn't merely due to his youth and inexperience: Sirius > Black, a skilled and experienced Wizard, who doesn't have a wand at that time. I think it may be because he doesn't have a wand right 'now' is why he doesn't Apparate, not that he can't Apparate or dislikes it. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 8 05:04:51 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 05:04:51 -0000 Subject: Wizard Genetics In-Reply-To: <90l0qu+fp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90pq5j+f2ga@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6438 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, naama_gat at h... wrote: > > We have been told many times that wizardry excludes technology Not all technology. Hermione explained that electrical and electronic gadgets can't work at Hogwarts because the many strong magic fields around Hogwarts make the electrons go crazy, and I would imagine that the same applies to The Burrow and Malfoy Manor, but pinning up a hem with straight pins (as Madam Malkin does with Harry's new robe in Book 1, altho' I keep wondering why she doesn't hem by magic) is a technology, tying knots in string (to hold Lupin's suitcase together, thanks, Caius) is a technology, Muggle lock picking is a technology that Fred and George bothered to learn. The students seem to all wear sneakers (trainers), and I am sure they tie their shoes the same way as Muggles, not by doing a Shoe-Tie Charm each time. They've been wearing those sneakers for years (okay, not the same pair for years) before they ever get a wand of their own. > (and by implication, science) Harry wanted to buy a moving model of the Galaxy in a big glass bowl, and then never have to take another Astronomy class. They live in the same Galaxy we do, not in a geocentric universe with Platonic shells and Ptolemaic epicycles. Therefore the nature of their universe is the same as ours, therefore any truths that happen to have been discovered by Science are still true in their universe. They ALSO know some additional truths, related to magic, that we don't know about. From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Dec 8 05:50:35 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 05:50:35 -0000 Subject: MOVIE Latest News In-Reply-To: <90k8hg+mo8u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90psrb+civa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6439 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > > Just got back from brat-sitting, and have some news for you all. > > I take it this is not a favourite pastime of yours? > > > Warner Bros Productions are short of 250 extras for the Quidditch > > match scenes they hope to be filming very shortly > > Didn't you think that they needed an adult to play the part of a > visting alumnus...namely you? > > (PS... don't email me for info on getting a part - WB have approached > drama/stage schools in the South of England to get the extras they > > need) > > Oh well I may be involved in drama but I'm on the other side of this > rather large lake and that must be why I wasn't contacted...sigh > > Scott I think I'm over the edge big time..I just had this fantasy of playing Arabella Figg -- after all I DO love cats, Susan From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Dec 8 07:15:27 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:15:27 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More on the Hogwarts express. References: <20001207124356.16689.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008301c060e6$a7891f60$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6440 The ones I'm talking of are passenger/commuter electric trains in Sydney, Australia. Thanks for the reply. I understand what sort of carriages you're talking of, and that design would fit the story better. Simon. -------------------- JKR stated in a recent chat (well, a month and a half ago or so) that there are 1000 students at Hogwarts. The Hogwarts express is a traditional British steam-powered passenger-train. The passenger-carriages that you describe sound to me like the commuter-trains on the American East-coast, or the new German two-story regional trains - am I right in this understanding? The Hogwarts express passenger-carriages would have one story only, and would have a single corridor along one side of the carriage, with compartments being the width of ca. 2/3-3/4 the carriage-width, with each compartment having 6 seats, 3 and 3 facing each other. A typical muggle-carriage of this design would have, I believe, 8-11 compartments. It is not a given, with the Hogwarts express, however, that the external and internal dimensions of the carriages are related. Watch British productions of those of Agatha Christie's murder-mysteries that invole trains to see what types of carriages I am talking about. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 8 07:49:46 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 07:49:46 -0000 Subject: Summaries - an update Message-ID: <005a01c060eb$b4cba580$c73570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6441 The mists are clearing....and according to the tea-leaves, Scott will be producing a profile of Trelawney for discussion any day now. Still looking for a volunteer to write a summary of "The Unexpected Task" (Ch. 22, GoF) - hormones rage and faces flush as the kids sort out their dates for the Yule Ball. Neil: yes, I am still here [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From marmeem at hotmail.com Fri Dec 8 08:57:38 2000 From: marmeem at hotmail.com (marmee maglaya) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 16:57:38 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Goonies Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6442 gosh! i do hope you're wrong. i've been so looking-forward to the movie, i do wish it does capture its depth! From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Goonies Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:40:03 -0000 eliasberg at i... wrote: >Goonies was a great flick! I can't say I share your enthusiasm for The Goonies, the only thing I liked about it was the place it was shot in, Astoria Oregon, the most beautiful little town I've ever been in. The Goonies was written by Chris Columbus, the same fellow who's directing the new Harry Potter movie, that's why I have this horrible feeling it's going to turn into the Little Rascals on broomsticks. Harry Potter has depth and I'm skeptical Columbus is up to the challenge, I hope I'm wrong. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Dec 8 14:33:17 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 06:33:17 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sucking them in... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6443 Hi everyone... I'm new to the list, but I've been reading a few days now. I started out with a 'mixed marriage.' I love to read and will read for days if left alone. My husband is not a reader, or rather _was_ not a reader. He picks books up and sets them down but never finishes them. I mean I can't remember a book he's finished since we've been together almost 6 years. Finally, I got him to pick up HP and he read the first one in one day. Then an hour after he was done, he asked for book 2. Now he's read all four and can't stop reading! Not only has he joined my HP world, but is starting to be an avid reader! It must be magic! Meredith ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Pam Scruton [mailto:Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk] ** Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 1:34 PM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sucking them in... ** ** ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski ** wrote: ** > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first ** book. ** ** I too live in a mixed marriage - my two children are both fans, and ** even the dog will listen attentively! ** ** However, I think it is about to change. We have four tickets (so ** we're not taking the dog) for JKR's charity reading in Glasgow on ** Saturday - he will surely reach for Book 1 on our return home! ** ** Pam ** ** ** -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor ** -------------------------~-~> ** eGroups eLerts ** It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! ** http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/976138446/ ** ------------------------------------------------------------- ** --------_-> ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Fri Dec 8 17:21:26 2000 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:21:26 -0000 Subject: The secret of St. Nick and a HP Christmas In-Reply-To: <90p440+u14q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90r5am+thg4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6444 "WAIT! Here's another question- Does the wizarding world have Santa? I don't think we've seen any explicit evidence of it, but if so he would definetly be real, and he'd be a wizard too I expect." He's probably called "Father Christmas", rather than Santa. I'm still puzzled how the presents appear at the foot of Harry's and Ron's beds on Christmas morning. I mean, it would be kind of difficult for owls to be flying boxes into the rooms, unless the boxes are delivered to Hogwarts and the House Elves put them at bedside. Demelza From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 8 21:53:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:53:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The secret of St. Nick and a HP Christmas References: <90r5am+thg4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A315848.4003A219@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6445 Demelza wrote: > He's probably called "Father Christmas", rather than Santa. To be sure, in civilized England, where he has a measure of solemnity and dignity left. > I'm still puzzled how the presents appear at the foot of Harry's and Ron's > beds > on Christmas morning. I mean, it would be kind of difficult for owls to be > flying boxes into the rooms, unless the boxes are delivered to Hogwarts > and the House Elves put them at bedside. I'm assuming the presents get there in the same way, whatever that is, that their trunks of stuff get there at the start of each semester. Probably the folks from home send presents, mayhap to a special "present" subaddress, and they get stashed in some big magical holdy-place until Christmas, when the mystery agent (I think you're probably right, house elves) gets them to the (foots?)(feet?) of the beds. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 8 21:56:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:56:00 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic)] Message-ID: <3A3158F0.443A5523@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6446 Inevitably, discussion of the deplorable heraldry of the movie-version (what's in the books themselves is rather nice) hit my heraldry group. To echo the question phrased below, does anyone know if JKR *did* retain any rights to the character names, etc.? Are they entirely Warners' now? --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:00:50 -0500 From: Joel Polowin Reply-To: Discussions of SCA Heraldry To: SCAHRLDS at LISTSERV.AOL.COM At 09:04 AM 12/7/00 -0900, Bjarni wrote: >This squares fairly well with what's on my cup, which has a quarterly >emblazon of all four: 1. Gules, a lion (more or less) rampant to sinister The new Harry Potter calendar shows what I assume is supposed to be a Gryffindor device. Roughly: Quarterly lozengy gules and argent and gules semy of lozenges azure, a lion rampant to sinister Or maned and tufted brown. What I find even more startling is the notice that the characters are copyrighted by Warner. I wonder what kind of contract Joanne Rowling signed with them. Joel / Evan Little jpolowin at sympatico.ca From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 8 21:57:48 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:57:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Christmas References: <90ot59+iijp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A31595C.55F60B0C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6447 magicalhp at yahoo.com wrote: > If anyone has any ideas, suggestions, facts, etc, I'd love to hear > them. :) Christmas crackers! Never very big in America. In my mind, they give a rather English flavor to the whole proceedings. You can get them from some of the enlightened catalogs, or perhaps some of our listees in the old country can send you a few.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 8 22:07:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 16:07:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Summaries - an update References: <005a01c060eb$b4cba580$c73570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A315BBA.C3344A60@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6448 Neil Ward wrote: > Still looking for a volunteer to write a summary of "The Unexpected Task" (Ch. 22, GoF) - hormones rage and faces flush as the kids sort out their dates for the Yule Ball. Haven't you just done it? Very abbreviated, but concise and to the point. Bravo. --Amanda From eliasberg at ioc.net Fri Dec 8 22:18:45 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 22:18:45 -0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic)] In-Reply-To: <3A3158F0.443A5523@texas.net> Message-ID: <90rmo5+fgd7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6449 Amanda, I think JKR holds the rights to the characters. Warner Brothers has licensed the characters for the movie version of the first book, with an option for, first right of all other books in the series. Warner Brothers has the rights to all merchandise of the HP series and will act as JKRs agent to sub-license to other companies for merchandise, i.e. Mattel and the trivia game, Electronic Arts for the video games. JKR maintains ownership of all her works and receives royalties on all Warner Brothers deals; hence she became the highest paid woman in Britain. My friend is Executive Producer at EA and was part of the team to acquire the rights to the HP series and it was a sub-license they pout together. I am not sure if Bloomsbury owns any rights when they signed her? I only know the EA/Warner deal. Dave From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 8 23:15:39 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 23:15:39 -0000 Subject: Christmas Crackers OT (was "HP Christmas") In-Reply-To: <3A31595C.55F60B0C@texas.net> Message-ID: <90rq2r+9bm0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6450 > > Christmas crackers! Never very big in America. In my mind, they give a > rather English flavor to the whole proceedings. You can get them from some > of the enlightened catalogs, or perhaps some of our listees in the old > country can send you a few.... > Gosh but I feel foolish for not thinking of this! Anyway here's a link for purchasing them online- http://www.williams- sonoma.com/cat/pip.cfm?cat=5&grp=11091&src=gftggiftg%20p1 (you might have to copy and paste this into your window...) Might I mention that I am in no way connected to Williams Sonoma but I do enjoy their products and am planning on buying some of these when I go shopping tomorrow. Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 8 23:15:49 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:15:49 -0600 Subject: Rights to Character Names References: <90rmo5+fgd7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A316BA5.1717ED63@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6451 Hi -- eliasberg at ioc.net wrote: > Amanda, > > I think JKR holds the rights to the characters. Warner Brothers > has licensed the characters for the movie version of the first > book, with an option for, first right of all other books in the > series. I'm sure Heidi can comment with more authority (being an actual real-live intellectual property lawyer rather than just a semi-retired transactional type like myself) but .... I'm fairly certain that JKR retains rights in the characters for all purposes. Motion picture rights are known as "subsidiary rights." It's generally a right to create a motion picture using some of the elements of a written work -- title, story line, characters, setting, etc. But, in general, a motion picture producer wants to be able to have some license to leave out characters or scenes, rewrite dialogue, etc. It is highly doubtful (especially given when the movie deal with Warner Bros. was negotiated) that JKR sold Warner Bros. the rights to the characters. If so, Warner Bros. wouldn't need to go back to her for rights to create subsequent movies. Much more likely that Warner Bros received the rights to the plot of SS and CoS (it's my understanding they only have rights on the first 2 books at this point). > Warner Brothers has the rights to all merchandise of the HP > series and will act as JKRs agent to sub-license to other > companies for merchandise, i.e. Mattel and the trivia game, > Electronic Arts for the video games. JKR maintains ownership of > all her works and receives royalties on all Warner Brothers > deals; I would bet she might have also retained some approval rights -- so that Warner Bros couldn't sublicense to someone who would create "questionable" merchandise. For example, I'm sure there's some sort of clause that Warner Bros. can't unilaterally sublicense HP rights to Budweiser for a beer commercial for example. > I am not sure if Bloomsbury owns any rights when they signed her? I > only know the EA/Warner deal. Oh sure. The publishers always retain plenty of rights, although JKR ultimately holds the copyrights in her works. Maybe Heidi can comment a bit more .... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 00:55:17 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:55:17 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Professor Trelawny Message-ID: <90rvtl+mc0g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6452 When I hastily raised my hand to do this summary I thought it would be easy, but I'm not so sure. While Trelawny isn't the most complex character in the series, IMO at least, she is far from dull. "Tripe, Sibyll?" This obvious comment of McGonagall at the Christmas dinner in PoA is a great way to start a character summary of Sybill Trelawny. One of the biggest things which stood out to me when reviewing her role in the books was that her interactions with McGonagall and Hermione are very much the same. I know in the past comparisons between the two, Prof. Mcgonagall and Hermione, have been made but it really does seem to me that their reactions show something about both their characters and Trelawny's. It struck me that Hermione, being a very logical person, and by Trelawny's defintion "one of the most mundane people...", is the complete antithesis of Trelawny. Trelawny isn't thinking about what makes sense just what she believes. This is evident with Mcgonagall too (p. 228 PoA, American Ed.) and with Hermione throughout PoA. According to Ellie's etymology page Sybill comes from mythology and Trelawny comes either from a Cornish poem "And Shall Trelawny Die?" or from the play "Trelawny and the Wells" (1898) We, along with Harry, first meet Prof. Trelawny in the chapter "Talons and Tea Leaves," PoA. Harry's first impression is that she is like a large and glittering insect. Her large glasses magnify her eyes, and she is very thin. Her inner eye however is supposedly clear, and she explains that she doesn't mingle with those in Hogwarts as not to cloud her inner eye. I stated above that Hermione is one of the only one's to quickly see through Trelawny's manner. The only "gits" who actually seem to buy into it are Lavender and Parvarti. However Harry must at least have believed it for a while because it isn't until the start of GoF that he thinks Hermione was probably right. Now this above paragraph is only true if you believe that you can't believe much of what Trelawny says. If we go along with Peg (message #526, Bless you this gave me some great additional insight!) then we see JKR as writing Trelawny as a character at which to poke fun, and not to be taken very seriously. So when the disscussion of Trelawny comes down to it, the real question is CAN we take her seriously. While she may have only made two true predictions it seems that many of her predictions do come true in vague and slightly unrelated ways. She, so it seems, is either an extremely gifted diviner or a pitiful excuse for a Professor and a big fraud. My money is on the latter especially since the only real prediction she's made is one she did w/out knowing it. Another thing about Trelawny is that I view her as a very selfish character (I think that I may be stealing this idea from Peg's earliar posts but I didn't know if I had read this or thought of it or what) since she is always so sure that she is correct and yet she can't remember the one time (of which we know) that she really was right. I'm presuming that she probably didn't know she was giving her 1st accurate prediction. Ok, anyway a great example of her selfishness is when in GoF Harry is clutching his forhead, clearly in pain. Her immediate reaction is that his vision is being caused by her, not that she could help him or even that he needed help. Gilderoy Lockhart was a fraud and he knew it, but Trelawny is (possibly) a fraud and yet has no idea. Now I ask you- which is worse? OK, her are some questions to jumpstart discussion (hopefully)... 1) Is Trelawny fighting a losing battle? Is there anyone who believes in her powers (besides Lavender and Parvati)? 2) Is she totally nutty or is there more to her skills than we think? (and of course I HAD to ask it-) 3) What was her first true prediction? Does she know she made it? Has it been fufilled yet? Well, this WAS on short notice so I hope it will suffice. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real asthe here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 9 01:25:33 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 19:25:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Professor Trelawny References: <90rvtl+mc0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A318A0D.BC52A694@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6453 Hi -- Thanks to Scott for chiming in with this summary! It is *more* than satisfactory -- I enjoyed it very much in fact. :--) Scott wrote: > "Tripe, Sibyll?" My husband thinks this is one of the greatest examples of JKR humor. I can't help but agree. > One of the biggest things which stood out to me when reviewing her > role in the books was that her interactions with McGonagall and > Hermione are > very much the same. I know in the past comparisons between the two, > Prof. Mcgonagall and Hermione, have been made but it really does seem > to me that their reactions show something about both their characters > and Trelawny's. I definitely think Hermione looks to McGonagall as a role model and may have picked up some disdain for Trelawney from her. But, as far as we know, Hermione did form her own initial impression before having benefit of McGonagall's thinly-disguised feelings about Trelawney (I'm thinking of the Talons & Tea Leaves chapter .... McGonagall has some words to offer about Trelawney but only after the class has first met Trelawney and Hermione has already it seems decided she's suspect at best). I think it's quite interesting that Hermione's attitude mirrors McGonagall. They're both sort of no-nonsense types. I have the sense that Hermione later complains about the lessons & such to McGonagall, leading to her later comment to the boys that McGonagall says that divination is a very imprecise branch of magic. > So when the disscussion of Trelawny comes down to it, the real > question is CAN we take her seriously. While she may have only made > two true predictions it seems that many of her predictions do come > true in vague and slightly unrelated ways. She, so it seems, is > either an extremely gifted diviner or a pitiful excuse for a > Professor and a big fraud. My money is on the latter especially > since the only real prediction she's made is one she did w/out > knowing it. I was listening to PoA in the car today -- the Talons & Tea Leaves chapter. Harry's tea leaves do say that he will receive unexpected gold, a windfall. Does this mean that his winnings in GoF were predicted in this chapter? If so, what do we think of Ron's tea leaves? Suffering, trials & tribulations but happy. I can't decide what that might mean specifically -- it's not as specific as the unexpected gold. > 1) Is Trelawny fighting a losing battle? Is there anyone who > believes in her powers (besides Lavender and Parvati)? Well .... why *does* Dumbledore keep her on? Maybe all potential Divination instructors are batty also. I think she's probably largely there to serve the narrative. JKR is poking a little fun at her for certain, and her mysterious first accurate prediction is still yet to be revealed. And, she certainly adds some humor to the stories. Her own actions & such are humorous, and she indirectly injects humor through the other characters (the weird & wacky predictions that Harry & Ron devise for themselves for example). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 02:04:11 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 02:04:11 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts, a History (was: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw In-Reply-To: <90cv07+8ub0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90s3ur+8ib8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6454 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > I think she'd be delighted if Ron and Harry would read Hogwarts: > > A History....and I can't believe that they HAVEN'T read it, (snip) > > ...in fact, I would very much like to read it...perhaps JKR will > > write it...MUCH more interesting than Quidditch through the ages > > Yes, but probably much longer and much more laborious to write. I'd like to, too! And since it's obvious that JKR has masses of notes, unless/until she says otherwise I can only assume that HAH and all the others exist in some form, but that "Quidditch" and "Fantastic Beasts" were chosen because they were the ones requiring the least 'cleaning up' to publish. From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 02:07:41 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 02:07:41 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Professor Trelawny In-Reply-To: <90rvtl+mc0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90s45d+l6ul@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6455 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > When I hastily raised my hand to do this summary I thought it would > be easy, but I'm not so sure. While Trelawny isn't the most complex > character in the series, IMO at least, she is far from dull. Actually, you did an excellent summary on very short notice. > > "Tripe, Sibyll?" > I agree with Penny that this is an excellent example of how extremely funny JKR is. It still makes me laugh. > 2) Is she totally nutty or is there more to her skills than we think? She sort of reminds me of one of those blonde Hollywood starlets. They have only achieved success because of a characteristic they have which they didnt work for (sexiness in the case of the starlets, ability to occasionally make a true prediction in the case of Trelawney) and spend the rest of their time pretending they are something they are really not because of it. > (and of course I HAD to ask it-) > 3) What was her first true prediction? Does she know she made it? > Has it been fufilled yet? And I HAVE to answer it for the 47th time (at least). Her first true prediction was that Harry Potter would lead to Voldemorts downfall. I am convinced of it. (Of course, I was convinced that the person who would die in Book 4 was Sirius Black.) -- Joywitch From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Dec 9 02:15:56 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:15:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts, a History (was: Why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw Message-ID: <20001209021556.21261.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6456 [snip] > I'd like to, too! > And since it's obvious that JKR has masses of notes, unless/until she > > says otherwise I can only assume that HAH and all the others exist in > > some form, but that "Quidditch" and "Fantastic Beasts" were chosen > because they were the ones requiring the least 'cleaning up' to > publish. And they are less likely to cause trouble later on, if she changes her mind about some large plot point. JKR needs to keep Hogwarts: A History in her head till she has finished the HP-series, so she can keep her options open for what kind of interesting information can pop out of it. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 03:33:16 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 03:33:16 -0000 Subject: Chap. 21 Summary In-Reply-To: <001301c057e6$601298e0$29c54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <90s95s+bc4t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6457 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Chapter 21: The House-Elf Liberation Front [snip] > > 2) And of course this is a chapter in which quite a bit is actually > happening. Several narrative strands are introduced which will be bought to > full fruition later in the book. I've noted at least four: they are..? > I have been trying to figure this one out all week; I was hoping someone else would figure out what Caius was referring to but I guess everyone is busy with their Christmas shopping. These are the narrative strands introduced in this chapter that I think maybe Caius is referring to: 1. Ron says: There`s no way any of the other tasks are going to be that dangerous, how could they be? You know what? I reckon you could win this tournament, Harry, I`m serious. 2. Neville says (referring to the screaming golden egg which Harry has just opened): It was someone being tortured! You`re going to have to fight the Cruciatus Curse! 3. George says (right after Neville): Don`t be a prat, Neville, that `s illegal. They wouldn`t use the Cruciatus Curse on the champions. I thought it sounded a bit like Percy singing...maybe you`ve got to attack him while he`s in the shower, Harry. 4. Fred says: Canary Creams! George and I invented the -- seven Sickles each, a bargain! 5. Winky says: Mr. Bagman in a bad wizard...My master is telling Winky some things!.... From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sat Dec 9 08:16:20 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:16:20 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Goonies Message-ID: <6b.cfdf43d.27634454@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6458 In a message dated 12/8/2000 1:17:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, marmeem at hotmail.com writes: << i've been so looking-forward to the movie, i do wish it does capture its depth! >> I hope the special effects are up to par as well. Some of the descriptions in the book may be a bit difficult to do. Warner Bros. is not quite known for its stellar special effects...tho the Matrix was good.... ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sat Dec 9 08:22:23 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:22:23 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names Message-ID: <3c.4ad1dbc.276345bf@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6459 In a message dated 12/8/2000 3:56:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << I would bet she might have also retained some approval rights -- so that Warner Bros couldn't sublicense to someone who would create "questionable" merchandise. >> JKR did indeed retain all rights to the characters and she/or her representatives must approve any merchandise WB produces. WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the characters should look like. ~Hedwig~ From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 9 08:35:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:35:21 -0800 Subject: The Four (Five?) Founders Message-ID: <3A31EEC8.78B2FA64@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6460 Anyone who's been taking careful notes since May '00 knows that I have a couple of bees in my bonnet about the Founders of Hogwarts, 'the four greatest witches and wizards of their time', and that one of these bees came from my observation that the name of HoGwaRtS contains the initials of the 4 canonical Founders, but also an extraneous 't' which leads me to believe (did I mention that it is after midnight and there hasn't been a night this week that I got more than 6 hours sleep?) that there was a 5th Founder whose names began with T. (I think the surnames are descriptive epithets rather than family names, like for Wendolyn the Weird, 'the Weird' was not her family name, but that is not important now.) [Digression: I think the mountain behind the village is Hogmount or Mt. Hog, and all the local features were named after it. The village is Hogsmeade (meade = meadow), the lake (unbeknownst to modern folk) is Hoglake, the Forbidden Forest (who knew it had a name?) is Hogwood, and the place where the castle was built had formerly been named Hogwald. But they changed it to Hogwarts to include all the initials because Slytherin sulked when he noticed that 'Hogwald' contained Godric's and Helga's initials but not his. I looked 'wald' up in the dictionary to check this, and learned that 'wald', related to 'weald' and 'wold', means 1) a forested area, 2) an unforested hilly area, 3) an unforested flat area..] And another of my hobbyhorses is my politically correct multiculturalism that wants the Founders to represent all the major ethnic groups in Hogwarts's service area (the island of Britain and associated isles) at the time of the Founding ('over one thousand years ago' -- I make that circa 960 AD, altho' this AD is not Albus Dumbledore). When I thought that Gryffindor was Gryphon d'Or, which is French, I was distressed because it was at least a generation too early for Normans (they invaded in 1066), but since my flash of divine enlightenment that 'Godric Gryffindor' was the name that Sayces had given Gruffydd Glyndwr, so that Gryffindor is a Waugh, representative of the Brythonic Celtic speakers and Merlin's own nationality, I can almost make this theory work. Rowena, I keep saying, is the Saxon because Walter Scott named his Saxon heroine in IVANHOE Rowena. Helga is the Dane -- remember King Canute (Knut -- are Knuds named after him?), the Danelaw, King Alfred of the burnt oatcakes? Salazar -- surely he is a Byzantine, considering his personality, or at best a Roman left over from Imperial days (and therefore already centuries old and bitter). He is not a Scot, an ethnicity that surely should be represented when founding a school in Scotland, and would represent the Goidelic Celtic speakers. Maybe he is a Pict: Kipling's poem "A Pict Song"' sounds nasty enough to suit him (I put two verses at the bottom so people can see what I am talking about). Which leads to the deduction that the fifth Founder was a Scot whose name began with a T. Another lightning flash of prophecy told me that his name was Tavish Tartanwool (as an epithet, it came from having invented sheep that grew plaid wool) and, if his house had endured, its banner would have been a white sheep on a plaid background. Maybe it would at least have been given golden curly horns so the inmates could cheer their House team "Go, Rams!" instead of 'Go, Sheep!" They'd play in plaid Quidditch robes.... But somehow he, or at least his name and memory of him, vanished away sometime between picking the name Hogwarts and establishing the Houses. One presumes he was murdered. One presumes that any murder that occurred must have been committed by Salazar. How did he persuade the other three to put up with this, keep working with him, instead of kicking out (or executing him) as a murderer? But they would have agreed to erase all memory of Tavish so that future generations would not known that they had consorted with a murderer. We are the Little Folk--we! Too little to love or to hate. Leave us alone and you'll see How we can drag down the State! We are the worm in the wood! We are the rot at the root! We are the taint in the blood! We are the thorn in the foot! Mistletoe killing an oak-- Rats gnawing cables in two-- Moths making holes in a cloak-- How they must love what they do! Yes--and we Little Folk too, We are busy as they-- Working our works out of view-- Watch, and you'll see it some day! -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 9 08:50:47 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 08:50:47 -0000 Subject: Rights to Character Names In-Reply-To: <3c.4ad1dbc.276345bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <90srp7+7bib@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6461 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: I love your name, owl-the-Cat. > > WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the > characters should look like. Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? And no one ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their uniform? From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 9 09:50:37 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:50:37 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries - another update Message-ID: <004201c061c5$9020e3a0$493670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6462 Thanks to Scott for that great summary at such short notice. CHAPTER 22: Sarah Rettger has volunteered to write a summary (slightly longer than my one liner) of Chapter 22, and, as it's so late in the week discussion may run into next week a little. Let's go with the flow... There's some overlap between these two weeks' summaries anyway. Next week we're looking forward to "The Yule Ball" and Professor McGonagall from the pen of John Walton. Scott said: 1) Is Trelawny fighting a losing battle? Is there anyone who believes in her powers (besides Lavender and Parvati)? It's true that some people are gullible enough to fall for fakery if the 'right' things are said in the presence of all the expected accoutrement. I'm disappointed that Lavender and Parvati have been portrayed as quite so silly in this context, but I guess JKR wanted to make a point about different reactions to this type of thing. To me, Divination seems an odd subject to be taught in a School of Witchcraft and Wizardry and my assumption is that it is meant to help the kids channel their magical powers by developing their psychic potential. I feel that it should be approached in a more scientific fashion than that favoured by Trelawney. Her tea leaf and crystal ball nonsense smacks of too much of Muggle fortune-telling. It would be good to see some real psychic ability being portrayed in future books. Trelawney reminds me of the sort of floaty, post-War landlady who would hold seances in her darkened drawing room. Hopeful 'guests' would link hands round a table in an attempt to contact 'the other side' but any ghostly activity would be limited to the landlady's daughter Muriel shaking a tasseled lampshade on cue. Strange then to find someone like her teaching in a Wizarding school which has ghosts strolling around the place, large as life. Scott also made a reference to Gilderoy Lockhart, and there is prime evidence that Dumbledore makes very odd appointments to his staff. I can't recall, did Dumbledore appoint Trelawney or was she there when he took over? Maybe she's there because she's part of his faithful old gang, like Lupin. On the other hand, perhaps Dumbledore is just too busy to be bothered about her incompetence. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 9 10:22:06 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:22:06 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Four (Five?) Founders References: <3A31EEC8.78B2FA64@wicca.net> Message-ID: <004501c061c9$e22e9bc0$c43570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6463 Catlady said: "...my observation that the name of HoGwaRtS contains the initials of the 4 canonical Founders, but also an extraneous 't' which leads me to believe (did I mention that it is after midnight and there hasn't been a night this week that I got more than 6 hours sleep?) that there was a 5th Founder whose names began with T." *** I do remember you mentioning this before and I'm not sure if I asked at the time why you picked out the letter 't' as being extraneous and not the 'o', 'w' and 'a'? If you're ignoring the vowels, there's still the 'w' to contend with (I know, I know - preposition at end of sentence etc etc). Are there six or even eight founders? If there was a fifth founder, with initials 'TT' as you suggest could it have been Tania Tucker? I guess not. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 9 11:13:01 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Storm Stanford) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:13:01 +1100 Subject: Dumbledore and Trelawney, strange appointments Message-ID: <01C0622D.99D1FCA0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6464 Hi Neil, Hi everyone Neil said: "Trelawney reminds me of the sort of floaty, post-War landlady who would hold seances in her darkened drawing room. Hopeful 'guests' would link hands round a table in an attempt to contact 'the other side' but any ghostly activity would be limited to the landlady's daughter Muriel shaking a tasseled lampshade on cue. Strange then to find someone like her teaching in a Wizarding school which has ghosts strolling around the place, large as life. " "Scott also made a reference to Gilderoy Lockhart, and there is prime evidence that Dumbledore makes very odd appointments to his staff. I can't recall, did Dumbledore appoint Trelawney or was she there when he took over? Maybe she's there because she's part of his faithful old gang, like Lupin. On the other hand, perhaps Dumbledore is just too busy to be bothered about her incompetence. " I don't think we know if Dumbledore appointed her or not. Remember we don't know what her first prophesy is/was. Could be of such importance that he wants her round in case it happens again (as it did, end of PoA) Besides could Dumbledore be faulted in any way, ever? I think not! . I agree with you that Dumbledore has made some very odd appointments - I think it's a combination of necessity and brilliance. Look at what people learned from Gilmore (apart from not to release Cornish pixies!) about all the other life lessons and virtues. Thinking about Snape in this category too. (I love him but as we have all discussed his teaching style stinks, err, is not conducive to learning) storm -----Original Message----- From: Neil Ward [SMTP:neilward at dircon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:51 PM To: Harry Potter for Grown Ups Subject: [HPforGrownups] Weekly summaries - another update _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 9 11:24:54 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Storm Stanford) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:24:54 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names Message-ID: <01C0622F.11E9E4E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6465 Hi all - I'm not sure about this, I think that JKR does NOT have any control over what WB do- reaching for folder - in an interview with her in EW daily by Jeff Jensen dated 7/9/00 (www.ew.com/ew/daily/1,2514,3591,00) I hope that's the right addie she was asked: "Do you have kind of control over what Warner Bros. does with Harry Potter? (JKR) Can I prevent it in terms of what's in my contract? No. But they have been very gracious in allowing me input and I have been asked a lot of questions I never expected to be asked" I thought I had another i/v which raised this point but all I can find is print outs of POU, Draco Sinister and Draco Dom. (lol) storm -----Original Message----- From: hedwigthecat at aol.com [SMTP:hedwigthecat at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 6:22 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names In a message dated 12/8/2000 3:56:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << I would bet she might have also retained some approval rights -- so that Warner Bros couldn't sublicense to someone who would create "questionable" merchandise. >> JKR did indeed retain all rights to the characters and she/or her representatives must approve any merchandise WB produces. WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the characters should look like. ~Hedwig~ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 9 14:19:19 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 08:19:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names References: <90srp7+7bib@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A323F67.7F8125AD@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6466 Hi -- Rita Winston wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > > I love your name, owl-the-Cat. > > > > WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the > > characters should look like. > > Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) > being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? And no one > ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their > uniform? I couldn't agree more Rita! It makes no sense for Hermione to have blonde hair & blue eyes when the books are very clear on her hair color (and a true fan knows she has brown eyes). The only thing they got right with her (IMO) is the hairstyle/type (they don't see her with tight ringlets any more than I do!). Some of the merchandise (which I don't think I've seen yet) apparently has Harry's scar going horizontally across his forehead, which just doesn't seem likely to most all of us. And .... they've given Ron a bowl haircut which looks ridiculous. I *hate* the artist who has done the calendar art -- he's made Harry appear stoned in at least the one pictured on the front of the calendar. So, all in all, I'd find it hard to believe that they consulted much at all with JKR or the publishers about the appearance of the characters on the merchandise. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 14:50:11 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 14:50:11 -0000 Subject: The Four (Five?) Founders In-Reply-To: <3A31EEC8.78B2FA64@wicca.net> Message-ID: <90tgr3+5n4j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6467 Rita wrote: > was a 5th Founder whose names began with T. (I think the surnames are descriptive epithets rather than family names, like for Wendolyn the Weird, 'the Weird' was not her family name, but that is not important now.) I'm not sure about this but at the time (we'll go with 960 a.d.) surnames were not very common, if in existence at all, but I'm not sure. Is this anywhere close to the truth? If so, then the wizards may have adopted this practise from the muggles, or vice versa. In fact these could have been something like descriptive epithets that later turned into surnames for their posterity. Rita Also wrote: [Digression: I think the mountain behind the village is Hogmount or Mt. Hog, and all the local features were named after it. The village is Hogsmeade (meade = meadow), the lake (unbeknownst to modern folk) is Hoglake, the Forbidden Forest (who knew it had a name?) is Hogwood, and the place where the castle was built had formerly been named Hogwald. But they changed it to Hogwarts to include all the initials because Slytherin sulked when he noticed that 'Hogwald' contained Godric's and Helga's initials but not his. I looked 'wald' up in the dictionary to check this, and learned that 'wald', related to 'weald' and 'wold', means 1) a forested area, 2) an unforested hilly area, 3) an unforested flat area..] I'm guessing this is why you picked the t as the extraneous letter. Since it is not original to Hogwald. Rita wrote this too: Which leads to the deduction that the fifth Founder was a Scot whose name began with a T. Another lightning flash of prophecy told me that his name was Tavish Tartanwool (as an epithet, it came from having invented sheep that grew plaid wool) and, if his house had endured, its banner would have been a white sheep on a plaid background. Maybe it would at least have been given golden curly horns so the inmates could cheer their House team "Go, Rams!" instead of 'Go, Sheep!" They'd play in plaid Quidditch robes.... Oh, I can just picture them in plaid Quidditch robes, however this theory does seem to be stretching it. Here's some information that may, or may not, be helpful. I found it in a book called "Scotland and her Tartans" "The origins of surnames may be grouped according ro four main types: 1. Patronymic, eg MacWilliam and Wilson are both derivitives of William 2. Trade or calling, eg Baxter, Clerk, Fletcher, Smith, Weaver 3. Physical description or distinctive physical feature eg, Dow, (black or dark), More (Big or Great), Cameron (Crooked Nose), Crookshanks; 4. Territorial, eg, Comrie, Dallas, Dyce, Ross, Strachan" Also I was looking for Tavish which I didn't find. I did, however find McTavish, and this name is comnon in Argyll. Where is Hogwarts located again? Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 9 15:30:06 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 09:30:06 -0600 Subject: The Four (Five?) Founders References: <3A31EEC8.78B2FA64@wicca.net> <004501c061c9$e22e9bc0$c43570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A324FFE.4223A244@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6468 Hi -- Neil Ward wrote: > If there was a fifth founder, with initials 'TT' as you suggest could > it > have been Tania Tucker? > > I guess not. LOL! This validates ASA -- Chapter 5 quite clearly btw. Rita -- I'm intrigued by your theories -- it would make a great fanfic! You should pursue it. I do think your analysis of Gryffindor & his ethnicity is plausible. Helga Hufflepuff as a Dane makes sense too. Anyway ... I hope you'll pursue this! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 15:41:01 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:41:01 -0000 Subject: The Four (Five?) Founders In-Reply-To: <3A31EEC8.78B2FA64@wicca.net> Message-ID: <90tjqd+vho5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6469 Fascinating analysis. Whenever I think we have analyzed HP to its limits someone always take obsession to new heights. That is a compliment, Rita, really it is. -- Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 15:46:08 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:46:08 -0000 Subject: HP chapter summaries Message-ID: <90tk40+b0q8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6470 Can we have some volunteers for pinch hitters to come off the bench to do the chapter summaries in case of injury in the scheduled lineup? For those of you who dont understand my American-centric baseball metaphor, here is another: Can we have some volunteers for understudies to come from the wings to do the chapter summaries in case of illness in the regular cast? The problem is that people sign up to do these summaries and then sometimes disappear, or become too busy with their mundane little muggle affairs, as if those things were important, to fulfill their wizarding responsibilities. Those people have all been turned into toads, of course, but we still need some backup. Thanks in advance. --Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 15:55:09 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:55:09 -0000 Subject: Breaking News! Message-ID: <90tkkt+ms1j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6471 This just in, found it on AOL/Time.com so I cant give you a URL but it can probably be found somewhere at Time.com I guess: Harry Potter and the Delayed Pub Date Planning to read Harry Potter V next summer? Don't count on it BY SUE CULLINAN/LONDON Harry Potter fans expecting the sorcery saga's next installment in time for summer vacation next year will have to wait a little while longer. J. K. Rowling's publishers, Bloomsbury Publishing PLC, says there will be no new Harry Potter book ready for the summer. The reason? "Basically the author hasn't finished writing it," Bloomsbury CEO Nigel Newton tells TIME, adding that the production schedule for the next three books "is still to be confirmed." One possible reason for the delay in churning out the fifth book in the series: Two Harry Potter companion books Rowling is writing for a U.K. charity called Comic Relief. The books, "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them", will appear under the pseudonyms of Kennilworthy Whisp and Newt Scamander on February 13. Rowling will donate net proceeds to the Harry Potter Fund at Comic Relief, U.K., a charity set up to help children in developing countries. Still, given that book No. 4, "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire," checks in at a sturdy 734 pages, the delay might give everyone a chance to finish that one before springing for the next. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 9 15:46:34 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 09:46:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sucking them in... References: <3A2EAAD9.A954A874@texas.net> <3A2EB9D8.D3D696A3@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A3253DA.1AE8188@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6472 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Rejoice with me! My husband has finally started to read the first > > book. > > He's clearly tired of listening to me spouting endless commentary, of > > which he understands one word in four. > > > > Just wondering--how many other "mixed marriages" are on the list, and > > how are you approaching it? Conversion? Immersion? Subliminal reading > > at > > night, a la I Love Lucy? > > Ah ..... when I finished SS, I immediately handed it to my spouse with > the words "You *must* read this!" I think my husband is on about the same ecological niche as yours, Penny. He has read them all (mostly because he was alternating with me on reading them to the kids) but he got interested enough to read ahead of where we were on reading to the kids. And he did read GoF before we read it to our oldest daughter (not the youngest) because I wanted his opinion on whether our oldest could handle the ending. But he has not re-read them as I have. Enjoyed them but not obsessed. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 9 16:01:15 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:01:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Genetics References: <90l0qu+fp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A32574A.E5DD06DA@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6473 naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: > > Science aside, genetics seems far too mundane a way > > for wizarding abilities to be handed out. It would be > > simple to run a test on every baby to check for the > > wizarding gene (although this is a possibility - > > parents are told at the birth that their child is a > > wizard, and this is why none of them seem upset about > > letting their children go off to Hogwarts.) However, > > I seem to remember Colin Creevy saying that his family > > was shocked to find out that he was a wizard, so this > > seems unlikely. > > > > Sarah > > > I must say I agree with you. We have been told many times that wizardry excludes technology > (and by implication, science) so it would be an obvious fallacy to subsume wizardry and its > causes under science. Hmm. Again, I would say that wizardry doesn't so much EXCLUDE technology as it is an alternative technology (wasn't it Arthur C. Clarke who said that at a sufficiently advanced level technology is indistinguishable from magic?). For a clearer explanation of what I mean, I refer people, for the umpteenth time, to one of my favorite critical essays about the HP books (sorry if I'm becoming a bit repetitive in doing so): http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html Peg From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Dec 9 16:59:14 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 11:59:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names References: <90srp7+7bib@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3264E2.2BAC0D66@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6474 Rita Winston wrote: > And no one > ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their > uniform? I'm not sure the hats are required all the time. If they were, I don't think Harry's scar would be as visible as it seems t be - JKR even says that in the corridors on Sept. 2, Book 1, people were asking each other if they'd seen his scar- if he was wearing a hat, it wouldn't've been easy to do. From eliasberg at ioc.net Sat Dec 9 18:01:59 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:01:59 -0000 Subject: The Four (Five?) Founders In-Reply-To: <004501c061c9$e22e9bc0$c43570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <90ts2n+ftmi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6475 More like Tina Turner, hence her looking so good at 60. I would say Dick Clark but there is no D, does anyone think there is a portrait in his attic loking very old? From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sat Dec 9 18:02:21 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:02:21 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names Message-ID: <9b.dead0a3.2763cdad@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6476 In a message dated 12/9/2000 12:51:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, catlady at wicca.net writes: << I love your name, owl-the-Cat.>> Hedwig-the-owl was taken:( > > WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the > characters should look like. << Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? And no one ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their uniform? >> I've read the books and I didn't catch that either! You got me. Although brown and blonde can be very close depending on someone's interpretation. I have dirty blond hair....which means it does have some brown to it. ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sat Dec 9 18:05:44 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:05:44 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names Message-ID: <9.e1aba0c.2763ce78@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6477 In a message dated 12/9/2000 3:20:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, msmacgoo at one.net.au writes: << Hi all - I'm not sure about this, I think that JKR does NOT have any control over what WB do- reaching for folder - in an interview with her in EW daily by Jeff Jensen dated 7/9/00 (www.ew.com/ew/daily/1,2514,3591,00) I hope that's the right addie she was asked: >> This is concerning the film not the merchandising rights.....The characters on any WB product had to meet a certain look before it was approved. I do remember them going back and forth on Harry several times before a final design for product was completed with approval. ~Hedwig~ From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Dec 9 18:04:29 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:04:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names References: <9b.dead0a3.2763cdad@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A32742D.DB1FA3A0@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6478 hedwigthecat at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/9/2000 12:51:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, > catlady at wicca.net writes: > << Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) > being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? And no one > ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their > uniform? >> > > I've read the books and I didn't catch that either! You got me. Although > brown and blonde can be very close depending on someone's interpretation. I > have dirty blond hair....which means it does have some brown to it. > Book 1: "Has anyone seen a toad? Neville's lost one," she said. She had a bossy sort of voice, lots of bushy brown hair, and rather large front teeth. Personally, speaking as someone with brown (slightly bushy) hair and blue eyes, I've never presumed anything about hermione's eye color - and just as a note - my little Hermione on a Stack of Books Secret Box has her with light brown hair - it's definitely, to my mind, brown - but the light kind. There are so many shades of brown hair (look through the clairol website for a small sample) that I can see the WB people giving her this light brown hair, which might, depending on hwo it's printed, look blonde, but it really isn't - on the calendar, the picture with Fluffy makes her look blond, but the Wingardium Leviosa one looks very brunette. But that's just IMHO From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 19:14:36 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:14:36 -0600 Subject: Help with Chat! References: <9b.dead0a3.2763cdad@aol.com> <3A32742D.DB1FA3A0@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <00fc01c06214$4cef6800$83d73404@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 6479 Hi folks! Me again! I am assuming I will not be here for chat tomorrow, and need help. Anyone who has Cheeta want to record and then upload the chat for me? I will keep my fingers crossed! Dee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Dec 9 18:21:29 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:21:29 -0000 Subject: Favorite Links and Files Message-ID: <90tt79+ntmm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6480 Hi, y'all -- I hope that everyone is taking advantage of all the features that e- Groups offers, not just the messages. For example, we have good photo collections of international book covers, the announced, rumored, and suggested cast members, and geographic locations mentioned in the books. Some of these pictures are posted in a sister e-Group that was set up for additional storage. Other sister e-Groups have been set up to hold old chat and Yahoo transcripts, and to discuss a possible HP Tour of the UK. Use the "Portkey" posted at the top of the Files area to navigate between the HPfGU-related e-Groups. Here's a quick link to it: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/++Portkey.html Remember that you can share a good review, essay, Web site, etc. with everyone by posting its URL in the Links area. It's easy to do, and you can add a short description of its content. The article that Peg refers to below was already among our Links under "Reviews and Scholarly Articles." I had saved the link as a result of one of Peg's earlier postings. It's a lot easier to find something when it has been saved as a Link or File than having to search over 6000 messages for it. There's lots of other interesting stuff in our Links, Files, DataBase, and Polls areas, so I encourage everyone both to look and to contribute. -Jim Flanagan (trying hard not to sound too pedantic) > For a clearer explanation of what I mean, I refer people, for the > umpteenth time, to one of my favorite critical essays about the HP > books (sorry if I'm becoming a bit repetitive in doing so): > > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html > > Peg From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Dec 9 18:23:46 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:23:46 -0000 Subject: Chat Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6481 Dee wrote: "I am assuming I will not be here for chat tomorrow, and need help. Anyone who has Cheeta want to record and then upload the chat for me?" I am sort of around so will set cheeta going and hope that nowt goes wrong. I may not actually be making much noise in the chat but will make sure it records. There is some television I want to watch and some friends I need to see - so will do my usual wander in and out routine. Simon From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Dec 9 18:28:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:28:47 EST Subject: Fwd: butter on your popcorn? from Suzanne Kensington Message-ID: <79.d4c4212.2763d3df@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6482 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 18:29:54 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:29:54 -0000 Subject: Favorite Links and Files In-Reply-To: <90tt79+ntmm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90ttn2+5mkf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6483 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Hi, y'all -- > > I hope that everyone is taking advantage of all the features that e- > Groups offers, not just the messages. For example, we have good > photo collections of international book covers, the announced, > rumored, and suggested cast members, and geographic locations > mentioned in the books. I have spent some time perusing these files and there is a truly wonderful collection of stuff there. Much of it was uploaded by Jim, who deserves our collective vote of thanks (if I can be permitted to speak for the group) for his efforts, and thanks also to other people who have uploaded graphics, links, etc. I know I have had a lot of fun playing with those files during those long afternoons when there are no more messages to read and I just dont feel like working (I have a lot of those afternoons). --Joywitch From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 9 19:01:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:01:10 -0600 Subject: Merchandise References: <9.e1aba0c.2763ce78@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A328176.C9BAEA4E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6484 Hi -- hedwigthecat at aol.com wrote: > This is concerning the film not the merchandising rights.....The > characters on any WB product had to meet a certain look before it was > approved. I do remember them going back and forth on Harry several > times before a final design for product was completed with approval. Who did the approving? JKR? One or both publishers? I was also curious about your source for this info (i.e., do you work for WB or one of the publishers)? Just curious as I'd not heard that the merchandise was subject to stringent review standards by anyone outside of WB. I'm quite surprised if it was reviewed and/or approved by JKR herself as it does seem that some of the merchandise is at least arguably at odds with the descriptions in the books. I do agree with Heidi that Hermione's hair could be interpreted as a very light brown on some of the merchandise. I have Hermione on the stack of books and the Hermione book buddy. I guess I would look at it and say dirty blonde, but that's from the perspective of someone with rather dark brown (brunette) hair. So, brown to me means something darker. It's a perspective thing I guess. They have made an effort to make Harry's eyes green, and I applaud them for that. Even the smallest Harry figure has green eyes if you hold it up and look closely. I would think if JKR were involved closely, she'd have said that Hermione should have brown eyes. Just my opinion anyway. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 9 19:04:18 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:04:18 -0600 Subject: Hermione's eyes References: <9b.dead0a3.2763cdad@aol.com> <3A32742D.DB1FA3A0@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A328232.ACC2982C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6485 Hi -- heidi wrote: > Personally, speaking as someone with brown (slightly bushy) hair and > blue eyes, I've never presumed anything about hermione's eye color - I have dark brown (slightly bushy) hair and blue eyes myself. But, Hermione's eyes are brown. CoS -- when she turns into a cat from the polyjuice potion, there's a reference somewhere in the chapter where she's changing back about her eye color returning to brown. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Ellimist15 at aol.com Sat Dec 9 19:09:03 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 14:09:03 EST Subject: the four (five?) founders? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6486 Rita said: << Rowena, I keep saying, is the Saxon because Walter Scott named his Saxon heroine in IVANHOE Rowena. Helga is the Dane -- remember King Canute (Knut -- are Knuds named after him?), the Danelaw, King Alfred of the burnt oatcakes? >> If I remember correctly, the names of the two characters captured in Ivanhoe were Rowena and Cedric. Does this spark any ideas? Ellie, who is currently scouring her bookshelves to see if she has a copy of Ivanhoe From chrisgoetz at home.com Sat Dec 9 19:09:55 2000 From: chrisgoetz at home.com (chrisgoetz at home.com) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:09:55 -0000 Subject: Cheesiest HP collectible? Message-ID: <90u023+5uvg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6487 What, in your opinion, is the cheesiest HP product or collectible? I vote for those little plastic Enesco "stones" with "story scopes" that might be legible to Dobby and Winky. The Enesco figurines in the the little plastic tubes are pretty bad, too. What do you think? Chris From horning at education.wisc.edu Sat Dec 9 19:16:43 2000 From: horning at education.wisc.edu (horning at education.wisc.edu) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 19:16:43 -0000 Subject: Indonesian edition In-Reply-To: <90pgjd+86db@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90u0er+c23r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6488 Jim, in case Endah hasn't answered... The Indonesian edition is now available in Bahasa Indonesian. The title appears in English on the cover, but if you have a clear enough jpg, you can see the Indonesian title in small letters beneath the picture. The CCBC's Harry Potter Around the World web site has the complete bibliographic info for the Indonesian book. Also, I'll be adding the Vietnamese edition early next week. http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/rowling/editions.htm Kathleen -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Welcome, endah -- I hope that you enjoy this e-Group. We have some > very good discussions here that I hope you find interesting. > > I have a question about the HP books in Indonesia -- are they > available in Bahasa Indonesia or only in English? This group has a > very good collection of international book covers, and have recently > added Indonesia, but I am not sure which language the books are > written in. > > -Jim Flanagan > > > Hi, my name is Endah from Indonesia. > > I'm a student in senior high school.. I like HP very much.. > > after I read HP i just can't hardly wait the next...the next... the > next new > > HP book... > > at least HP is the new HERO in my class. (sometimes WE read it in > the > > classroom).. hehehe.. > > My teacher *must* read HP..!! > > > > endah From bobandmeri31 at prodigy.net Sat Dec 9 19:36:39 2000 From: bobandmeri31 at prodigy.net (Bob and Mer) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 11:36:39 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names In-Reply-To: <90srp7+7bib@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6489 on 12/9/00 12:50 AM, Rita Winston at catlady at wicca.net wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > > I love your name, owl-the-Cat. >> >> WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the >> characters should look like. > > Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) > being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? And no one > ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their > uniform? Not to mention the many times the canon talks about Hermione's bushy, curly hair. Not one picture has her with curly hair. It's slightly wavy, giving the impression of being full, but I think it's a far cry from bushy, curly hair. Plus, where are her buck teeth? I picture Hermione being far more geeky looking than any of the merchandise (or the girl playing her in the movie) portrays. Meredith From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Dec 9 19:44:44 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:44:44 -0000 Subject: Merchandise and art stuff Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6490 Penny wrote: "I *hate* the artist who has done the calendar art -- he's made Harry appear stoned in at least the one pictured on the front of the calendar." I have the calendar (or more correctly will have it soon - it is a Christmas present and my mum refused to give it to me early so I could discuss the relative merits of the pictures with the group). Is the picture that you are referring to the one of him on a broomstick or is there another calendar that I have not seen? I quite like the pictures that I have seen but will say more in January when I actually have all the pictures in front of me! >From what I have seen of the calendar art I am happy. It is the USA cover art that I have more problems with - especially the cover for book 4. Penny wrote: "I do agree with Heidi that Hermione's hair could be interpreted as a very light brown on some of the merchandise. I have Hermione on the stack of books and the Hermione book buddy. I guess I would look at it and say dirty blonde, but that's from the perspective of someone with rather dark brown (brunette) hair. So, brown to me means something darker. Just my opinion anyway." Brown has got to mean something darker. If not then I will have to give up and admit to having brown hair. I have blond hair but it has gradually over the years got darker and darker. It has got to the stage where it now looks as if I dye it. It has some very definite blond patches, but most of it is a light brown. If it gets any darker then I will have to resort to dying it - I want my really very blond childhood hair colour back! Penny wrote: "Amusing side-story -- We put up our tree last weekend. After we put all the ornaments on, I was walking around the tree & looking at them. I suddenly asked my husband where he'd moved our gold filigree heart ornament, and he pointed to a place where he said had been a bit bare before. I said, "But, I placed that heart specifically between my Harry and Hermione ornaments for a reason." He was *literally* rolling on the floor laughing his head off at me. The heart *was* moved back though." I ending up laughing hard just reading that comment. My Christmas tree doesn't go up for another week yet - but I have no HP decorations to put on it, and in no way intend to get any to put on it - except maybe Hedwig (real if possible). I have to decide on what to put on that and buy all the stuff for to decorate two Christmas cakes before I go home in a week's time. Ideas will be greatly appreciated - please note non-HP ideas only (the rest of my family will object to me doing a Quidditch scene on the cake). I do hope to convert a few more to the joys of the books buy getting them to listen to the radio on Boxing Day! Simon From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sat Dec 9 20:34:40 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:34:40 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6491 In a message dated 12/9/2000 11:03:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << Who did the approving? JKR? One or both publishers? I was also curious about your source for this info (i.e., do you work for WB or one of the publishers)? Just curious as I'd not heard that the merchandise was subject to stringent review standards by anyone outside of WB. >> I work for Warner Bros. So it will be very easy for me to double check the info. I remember it being mentioned *months* ago about the strict approval process but paid no attention until I actually read the books and fell in love with the characters and their adventures. ~Hedwig~ From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Dec 9 20:47:43 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 12:47:43 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the four (five?) founders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001209124538.00c55340@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6492 At 02:09 PM 12/9/00 -0500, Ellimist15 at aol.com wrote: >If I remember correctly, the names of the two characters captured in >Ivanhoe were Rowena and Cedric. Does this spark any ideas? Suppose Harry had maintained the _Priori Incantatum_ connection with Voldy's wand longer... What others of his victims would have emerged... Wouldn't be interesting if Rowena Ravenclaw had appeared...? From terzarima at earthlink.net Sat Dec 9 21:38:51 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (terzarima at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:38:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names Message-ID: <200012091638358.SM00612@m2w030> No: HPFGUIDX 6493 The girl playing her in the movie is utterly charming and photogenic, like a young Meg Ryan. Nice, but I agree that Hermione is much gawkier than that. Suzanne, who had rabbit teeth when she was little Original Message: ----------------- From: Bob and Mer bobandmeri31 at prodigy.net Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 11:36:39 -0800 Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names on 12/9/00 12:50 AM, Rita Winston at catlady at wicca.net wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > > I love your name, owl-the-Cat. >> >> WB designers spent months going back and forth on what the >> characters should look like. > > Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) > being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? And no one > ever wearing their pointy hats that are a required part of their > uniform? Not to mention the many times the canon talks about Hermione's bushy, curly hair. Not one picture has her with curly hair. It's slightly wavy, giving the impression of being full, but I think it's a far cry from bushy, curly hair. Plus, where are her buck teeth? I picture Hermione being far more geeky looking than any of the merchandise (or the girl playing her in the movie) portrays. Meredith To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 9 22:26:39 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 22:26:39 -0000 Subject: Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed it) Message-ID: <90ubiv+ptta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6494 This morning found around a thousand people (all ages, all sexes) waiting in the pouring rain to get into Ms Rowling's Glasgow reading (for the Maggie's Cancer Caring Centre). We all had tickets but as the seats were unreserved it was first come, first to get a good seat. My husband (not yet an HP reader) was astounded to find that although we arrived well before the doors were due to open there were already a couple of hundred people there. It was a very cheerful crowd though, despite getting progressively wetter! An unexpected bonus was the appearance of three snakes, an iguana (didn't realise they had such long tails), a couple of rats and a barn owl all with their keepers from Glasgow Zoo to talk about some of the creatures in Harry Potter and their Muggle equivalents. Then Jo read some of Goblet of Fire (she's got a great Mad-Eye Moody voice), having first told us which page number she was starting on and then waiting for the book and page rustling to die down as people (mostly children) found the place to follow her reading. After that she took questions from the audience. She was absolutely delighted to find a pair of 'Weasley twins' - a pair of red-haired twin boys, 8 years old. I don't think she told us anything that hasn't been said before. She likes to be called Jo and people all over the world usually do call her Jo when asked, with the exception of the USA where, apparently, they persist in addressing her as JK! I was interested to hear that the two Comic Relief books are now finished and will be out as scheduled in March. When she said that book 5 would be Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix she was surprised at the audience reaction - clearly she thought that most people had heard about that already. Phoenix will be shorter than Goblet but longer than Azkhaban and she hasn't finished writing it yet. I knew that she had had problems writing Goblet but was very surprised to learn that she had written and re-written Chapter 9 no less than thirteen times and almost gave up but was afraid she might get lynched if she did. In response to a specific Goblet question she first ascertained if there was ANYONE in the hall who had NOT read the book and finding that there were a few she would not answer the question in public but promised to answer it if the questioner (little girl of about 9) came to see her at the book signing afterwards. Jo thinks that Durmstrang is in northern Scandanavia - the very north of Sweden or Norway and that Beauxbatons is somewhere near Cannes in the south of France. She says she doesn't know for certain because, of course, the exact whereabouts of these schools is a closely- guarded secret to which she is not privy! She confirmed that she may well kill off more characters but probably not the Dursleys because it is too much fun torturing them! She said that Harry wasn't based on anyone in particular but came totally out of her head. She said that Gilderoy Lockheart, on the other hand, was based on a real person - with very few changes - but she wouldn't tell us on whom and she said the real-life character was too dim ever to realise that he was the inspiration for Gilderoy. She was asked about the film and she confirmed the November 2001 release date and said that the only reason she had sold the film rights was so that she could watch a Quidditch match. She said that she had seen some of the film but didn't express any sort of opinion about it - in fact my heart rather sank when she paused reflectively and said, "We shall see." Somehow I felt that if she had thought the film came at all close to her view of the HP world she would have been a lot more enthusiastic. At the end members of the audience were invited up onto the stage, row by row, to have their books signed (one book per person, no dedications - much to the chagrin of a few people who seemed to have brought rucksacks full of books to be signed). It was a most enjoyable morning - we will all quite happily stand in the rain waiting to hear Jo Rowling any time! Pam From ara_kel at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 22:25:42 2000 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:25:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task Message-ID: <20001209222542.26112.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6495 Chapter 22 opens in Transfiguration, where Harry and Ron are being chewed out by Professor McGonnagall for having a sword fight with two of Fred and Georges fake wands. Once Professor McGonnagall has the class attention, she explains that Hogwarts will be hosting a Yule Ball that Christmas, with all fourth-years and above invited to attend, although they may invite a younger date. Parvati and Lavender react by giggling wildly, and Harry thinks it is very unfair that Professor McGonnagall does not object to the disruption they create. Professor McGonnagall makes it clear to the class that although it is a time for everyone to let their hair down, the standards of behavior to which Hogwarts students are held will not be relaxed. She dismisses the class, but asks Harry to stay. Professor McGonnagall informs Harry that, according to custom, he and the other champions will be expected to lead the ball with their partners. Harry is aghast at the idea of having to dance with a partner, and tries to object. Professor McGonnagall refuses to listen, and tells him that hed better come up with a date in time for the ball. Why do they have to move in packs? Harry asks Ron as the two begin their search for dates to the Yule Ball. Ron suggests that they just lasso a couple girls. Since the two are unwilling to approach groups of girls, they seem to have no hope of ever finding dates. Harry knows that he wants to ask Cho Chang to go to the ball with him, but cant quite screw up the courage. Several girls, however, ask Harry, and he flatly rejects each of them. As he endures teasing from the other Gryffindor boys, he realizes that these girls never spoke to him before he became the Triwizard Champion, and would not be inviting him otherwise. He wonders if he should be concerned that his fame will be the only reason Cho will agree to go with him. Harry, Ron, and Hermione spend an afternoon visiting Hagrid in his hut. They are all glad that despite the fact that Rita Skeeter recently talked to Hagrid, she has not produced an article. Hagrid says that hes thinking about going to the Yule Ball. Back in the castle, rumors are flying about the Yule Ball. Some students are convinced that Professor Dumbledore ordered 800 barrels of mulled mead from Madam Rosmerta, while it is known that the Weird Sisters will be providing the music for the evening. As the Christmas holidays are approaching, some teachers have given up on their classes. Flitwick, for example, spends the class complimenting Harry on his Summoning Charm while the other students play games. Professor Binns, on the other hand, continues to drone on about goblin riots, while Snape promises his students a test on the last day of the term. Hermione studies for the Potions test in the common room, while Ron builds a card castle with an Exploding Snap deck and Harry reads about the Chudley Cannons. Hermione chides them for not studying, and suggests that Harry should start working on figuring out the second clue, since he only has two and a half months left. Fred and George enter the room, looking to borrow Pigwidgeon. They wont tell anyone why theyre sending a letter, and decide to use a school owl instead. Ron asks his brothers if theyve found dates yet, and both of them admit that they have not. Fred decides to quickly rectify the situation by asking Angelina, who is sitting in another corner of the room. She agrees, and Fred and George leave to send their owl. Ron points out that he and Harry had better start working on finding partners for the ball, because they dont want to be stuck with a pair of trolls. His comment infuriates Hermione, who storms out of the room. The next day, Ron and Harry make a pact that by the time they meet back in their common room that night, they will both have dates. Harry finally screws up his courage and asks Cho, who tells him that shes going with Cedric. Dejected, he returns to the common room, where he finds Ron being comforted by Ginny and looking equally glum. Ron says that he tried to ask Fleur, but she looked at him like he was a sea slug. The two compare notes on what their friends are doing, and Ron mentions that Neville asked Hermione, who said she was going with someone else. He is sure that Hermione only said that because she didnt want to hurt Nevilles feelings, and thinks the situation is extremely funny. Ginny asks the two repeatedly to stop laughing, but they dont until Hermione comes in and Ginny fills her in on their afternoon. Hermione, Nevilles right you are a girl says Ron. Hermione doesnt think much of his choice of pick-up lines, and tells him that shes going with someone else. Ron refuses to believe her, and the two argue. Ron tries to get Ginny to go as Harrys date, but Ginny admits that she is going with Neville, because she didnt think shed have a date otherwise. Parvati and Lavender enter the common room, and Harry asks Parvati to go with him. After a cascade of giggles, she agrees. He asks Lavender to go with Ron, but Lavender says she is going with Seamus. Parvati offers to ask her twin sister Padma to be Rons date, and Harry hopes that Padma Patils nose is in the center of her face. Discussion Questions 1. I loved this chapter because I thought JKR did an excellent job of portraying a young adolescents view of romance and dating. Harry and Ron seem trapped in a fear of girls in large groups and the accompanying giggling. They also want nothing to do with the unattractive girls in their class, like Eloise Midgen. This seems pretty close to what I remember from when I was 13 or 14 years old. Do other list members, especially any who may be in their early teens, agree with this? 2. Why dont parents object to their childrens staying at school over Christmas? Christmas has always seemed to be a very family-oriented holiday, yet most of the students choose to stay at school in order to attend the Yule Ball. Also, what about students of other faiths? Do they feel free to participate in all the Christmas-related activities? 3. How does the Wizarding Wireless Network function? I direct this primarily at the scientists on this list, as my knowledge of electromagnetic radiation is sketchy. I would think that it would have to function on some magical frequency, otherwise the signals could be overheard by Muggles. 4. Why does Professor Binns never teach about anything but goblins rebellions? In every History of Magic class, he is shown talking about a different rebellion, and at the end of the year, Ron says that his HoM exam was easy because he only needed to make up names for the goblin leaders. Since this is a class that Hogwarts students take for all seven years, I would expect more subject matter to be covered. Have there really been no important magical events other than goblin rebellions in more than 1000 years of magical history, or is Professor Binns deliberately leaving out the interesting stuff? ===== Don't refuse to go on an occasional wild goose chase. That's what wild geese are for. -- Anon. One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Dec 9 22:41:18 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 9 Dec 2000 14:41:18 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed it) Message-ID: <20001209224118.12590.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6496 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Dec 9 23:28:40 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:28:40 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed it) Message-ID: <20001209232840.14009.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6497 --- Pam Scruton skrev: [snip] > I don't think she told us anything that hasn't been said before. [snip] > I was interested to hear that the two Comic Relief books are now > finished and will be out as scheduled in March. Will this be ecsclusively in UK and/or USA? [snip] > Jo thinks that Durmstrang is in northern Scandanavia - the very north > of Sweden or Norway and that Beauxbatons is somewhere near Cannes in > the south of France. She says she doesn't know for certain because, > of course, the exact whereabouts of these schools is a closely- > guarded secret to which she is not privy! [snip] Drats! There went my magnificent theory (and an idea I had (I am pondering whether or not to get myself involved in fanfiction), unless I choose to focus on the second (secrecy) part of what she said). Well, well - can't win it all. I am having some trouble seeing Scandinavians being mroe ready to go to Durmstrang than to Hogwarts, though (and I do not want Durmstrang in my neighbourhood). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From vderark at bccs.org Sat Dec 9 22:59:09 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 22:59:09 -0000 Subject: even more wand order stuff Message-ID: <90udft+kqs5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6498 Okay, please don't stone me for talking about that darn wand order thing again. I've read a few posts here lately that seem to suggest that everything's all settled as far as the wand order thing goes. But that's not the case as far as I can tell. Have I missed something? Here's the way it looks from where I'm standing. The order that James and Lily come out of the wand tells us the order in which they died, no question about that. But any way you look at it, the spells that killed them came out of the wand AFTER the one that sent Voldemort packing, since that spell was not one of the nine that did come out. Once we establish that, who cares which order they came out? It wasn't Voldemort casting the Killing Curse since he was bodyless and therefore unable to hold a wand at that point. So no matter if they change the order in this edition or that, it doesn't solve the real problem, am I right? And the real question is "Who really killed the Potters using Voldemort's wand?" Do we have even the slightest clue about who that might be? It's clear that Voldemort THOUGHT he did it, but he clearly didn't. Either he killed two other people who looked like the Potters or he seriously wounded Lily and James but didn't kill them. Someone else must have finished them off later. On a page in the Lexicon I suggest that it might have been Crouch or Pettigrew, but that's based on nothing concrete at all, just flat out guessing on my part. But the order in which this other person happened to actually kill the Potters in is immaterial, right? Or has this all been hashed through and settled and am I just revealing that I've been skimming messages and not reading them all in detail? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon (look for the "Priori Incantatem/missing 24 hours" page under Help/About and click on Mysteries) From karob_7 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 9 23:31:32 2000 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (Karin ) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:31:32 -0000 Subject: Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin Message-ID: <90ufck+9rop@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6499 Oh dear. It came, unbidden, into my mind (really!), which goes to show that Harry Potter and Christmas Carols are a dangerous combination--not to be mixed lightly. Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin (to the tune of....well....you know) You know Vincent and Gregory and Narcissa and Lucius, Pansy and Millicent and Marcus and Severus But do you recall The most interesting Slytherin of all? Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin (Slytherin) Had a very pointy face. (Like a ferret) And if you ever saw it (saw it) You wouldn't know quite what to say (Er). All of the other Slytherins (Slytherins) Followed him about like fools (like Baruffio). They did whatever he said (he said) Because they thought he was so cool (like the Dark Lord). Then one ordinary school day, Mad-Eye came to say (Constant Vigilance!), Malfoy, with your face like a ferret, Wouldn't you like to be a rodent? Then how the Slytherins fretted (fretted); The Gryffindors shouted with glee (yippee!). Draco, the ferret-faced Slytherin (Slytherin), You'll go down in Hogwarts: a History (like Salazar)! ~Karin From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 9 22:47:37 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 23:47:37 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] The Four (Five?) Founders References: <3A31EEC8.78B2FA64@wicca.net> <004501c061c9$e22e9bc0$c43570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <019601c06239$14a528c0$08c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6500 Isn't it that w can be taken for a half vowel? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Neil Ward Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 9 december 2000 11:22 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] The Four (Five?) Founders Catlady said: "...my observation that the name of HoGwaRtS contains the initials of the 4 canonical Founders, but also an extraneous 't' which leads me to believe (did I mention that it is after midnight and there hasn't been a night this week that I got more than 6 hours sleep?) that there was a 5th Founder whose names began with T." *** I do remember you mentioning this before and I'm not sure if I asked at the time why you picked out the letter 't' as being extraneous and not the 'o', 'w' and 'a'? If you're ignoring the vowels, there's still the 'w' to contend with (I know, I know - preposition at end of sentence etc etc). Are there six or even eight founders? If there was a fifth founder, with initials 'TT' as you suggest could it have been Tania Tucker? I guess not. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 9 23:45:05 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:45:05 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed it) References: <20001209232840.14009.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01b601c0623a$9a2adf20$08c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6501 I think Durmstrang is in Eastern Europe, somewhere near Romania but in a colder part! I don't want to have Durmstrang in my neighborhood either, shudder. Are you Norwegian, Christian? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Christian Stub? Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 10 december 2000 00:28 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed it) --- Pam Scruton skrev: [snip] > I don't think she told us anything that hasn't been said before. [snip] > I was interested to hear that the two Comic Relief books are now > finished and will be out as scheduled in March. Will this be ecsclusively in UK and/or USA? [snip] > Jo thinks that Durmstrang is in northern Scandanavia - the very north > of Sweden or Norway and that Beauxbatons is somewhere near Cannes in > the south of France. She says she doesn't know for certain because, > of course, the exact whereabouts of these schools is a closely- > guarded secret to which she is not privy! [snip] Drats! There went my magnificent theory (and an idea I had (I am pondering whether or not to get myself involved in fanfiction), unless I choose to focus on the second (secrecy) part of what she said). Well, well - can't win it all. I am having some trouble seeing Scandinavians being mroe ready to go to Durmstrang than to Hogwarts, though (and I do not want Durmstrang in my neighbourhood). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub? Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p? http://no.photos.yahoo.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Dec 10 00:09:52 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:09:52 -0000 Subject: even more wand order stuff (or the topic that will not go away!) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6502 Steve wrote: "Here's the way it looks from where I'm standing. The order that James and Lily come out of the wand tells us the order in which they died, no question about that. But any way you look at it, the spells that killed them came out of the wand AFTER the one that sent Voldemort packing, since that spell was not one of the nine that did come out. Once we establish that, who cares which order they came out? It wasn't Voldemort casting the Killing Curse since he was bodyless and therefore unable to hold a wand at that point. So no matter if they change the order in this edition or that, it doesn't solve the real problem, am I right? In-between Bertha emerging and James, or Lily in the corrected version, emerging Harry takes note of what the other 'echoes' are doing. There is enough time, IMO, during this for some 'effect' to come out of the wand and disappear in the same way that Peter's hand does. What 'effect' would this spell have? It would not be a ghost type of thing (like what Cedric, et al. appear as) since Voldemort did not die. My feeling is that Voldemort did kill Lily and James; he went to their house alone, or maybe with Peter (explaining how he ended up with the wand - which he kept until meeting up with, and giving some form of body back to, Voldemort). I just do not see any logical explanation for him lying about this. Which brings me onto another point. We know that Voldemort / Riddle lies - the bit about Hagrid and the werewolf cubs that Jo confirmed was made up in one of the interviews / chats recently. So how do we know that Harry is safe with the Dursleys'? No one other than Voldemort says this. We do get the impression that this is the explanation as to why Dumbledore sends him back to them each summer and why he cannot stay with the Weasleys' after GoF, but he does not confirm this. There maybe are other reasons. Why Voldemort would lie about this, just before he attempts to kill Harry, I do not know. It is possible that he does lie to make it clear as to why he takes this opportunity to act and does not wait for the summer, or even why he did not do it the previous summer - before the World Cup. He could also be trying to lull Harry into a false sense of security about the protection Dumbledore has been offering him. Again, why would he do this I do not know? But I am not an evil homicidal maniac - so do not know what he would be thinking. Simon From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 00:22:09 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:22:09 -0000 Subject: Rights to Character Names In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90uibh+l7tc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6503 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Bob and Mer wrote: > on 12/9/00 12:50 AM, Rita Winston at catlady at w... wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > > Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, anyway) > > being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? > Not to mention the many times the canon talks about Hermione's bushy, curly > hair. Not one picture has her with curly hair. It's slightly wavy, giving > the impression of being full, but I think it's a far cry from bushy, curly > hair. Plus, where are her buck teeth? On the merchandise, I don't know why they would have this all wrong, but as for the actress herself, none of this worries me too much - hair can be changed pretty easily, and I'm sure they can fake the teeth, too. Cosmetic stuff is not too difficult. I do worry about how they are going to make poor little Rupert Grint this tall skinny lanky kid that Ron is describe as being. In the picture of the three actors together, he's clearly shorter than the actor who's playing Harry. I guess it doesn't matter that much, as the points where it's most inportant in the book are in descriptions, which we won't get in the movie anyway, but I'm hoping the boy will grow a couple of inches at least. Returning to lurkiness kimberly From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 00:29:04 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:29:04 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter under your pants & other HP merchandise... In-Reply-To: <90u023+5uvg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90uioh+10spr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6504 Harry may be very brave, willing to fight Voldemort, and to venture into the unknown, but one place I never expected him to venture was just where he has- into people's underwear. I was suprised to find Harry Potter boxers at the WB store today. Ok I know that making boxers w/ popular characters isn't that rare, but honestly where else can Harry go...no don't anwser that. > What, in your opinion, is the cheesiest HP product or collectible? > > I vote for those little plastic Enesco "stones" with "story scopes" > that might be legible to Dobby and Winky. The Enesco figurines in > the the little plastic tubes are pretty bad, too. I agree, those stones are, erm...did anyone on this group actually buy them? Also you mention those figurines in the tubes, well I thought they were cute, but once I inspected them more closely I found that they were all chipped and broken even though they were still silled in the containers. Not a good sign. I've decided not to hoard all the HP "stuff". I would much rather have a collectible edition of the book than a stoned rendition of Harry, or a Hermione with the wrong colour hair (even though some would argue that it IS brown). I just don't want it to be destroyed by merchandising. I know that it may not, but it might. I know I can't stop it, but I want to try. I don't want all the kids (b/c I'm going to hope adults can handle it) to forget what's so special about Harry Potter-the magic. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 01:34:31 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 01:34:31 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task In-Reply-To: <20001209222542.26112.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90umj7+ftac@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6505 > Discussion Questions > > 1. I loved this chapter because I thought JKR did an > excellent job of portraying a young adolescent's view > of romance and dating. Harry and Ron seem trapped in > a fear of girls in large groups and the accompanying > giggling. They also want nothing to do with the > unattractive girls in their class, like Eloise Midgen. > This seems pretty close to what I remember from when > I was 13 or 14 years old. Do other list members, > especially any who may be in their early teens, agree > with this? Yes, yes, yes! I think that she was great at capture the youthful feelings of dating for the first time. I am sixteen and rather different than Harry in that I usually don't have the courage to actually ask the girl with whom I want to go. > 2. Why don't parents object to their children's > staying at school over Christmas? Christmas has > always seemed to be a very family-oriented holiday, > yet most of the students choose to stay at school in > order to attend the Yule Ball. Also, what about > students of other faiths? Do they feel free to > participate in all the Christmas-related activities? I think we undrestand Harry's reasoning perfectly, but as far as why none of the Wesealy kids ever go home for the holidays I don't know. Hermione went home in SS/PS didn't she? Maybe it was just that many made an exception for the ball in the same way that many more than usual left in PoA. > 4. Why does Professor Binns never teach about anything > but goblins rebellions? In every History of Magic > class, he is shown talking about a different > rebellion, and at the end of the year, Ron says that > his HoM exam was easy because he only needed to make > up names for the goblin leaders. Since this is a > class that Hogwarts students take for all seven years, > I would expect more subject matter to be covered. > Have there really been no important magical events > other than goblin rebellions in more than 1000 years > of magical history, or is Professor Binns deliberately > leaving out the interesting stuff? Is he deliberately leaving out the interesting stuff?!?! I can't believe you bothered to ask this! I didn't know that a History teacher COULD be anything but tedious and excruciatingly dull!!! Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Dec 10 01:55:35 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 20:55:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] new issue of Entertainment Weekly reviews HP Products References: Message-ID: <3A32E297.C86D5D60@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6506 The december 15, 2000 issue has a half-page story on Potter-Phenalia wioth reviews of 6 different "products" - here's the list & the # of wizard hats each got (not repeating the whole story here because of copyright issues (ew owns 'em) 1. Bertie Botts' Every Flavor Beans - 2 and a half Wizard Hats 2. Quidditch Card Game "really casts a spell" - 3 Wizard Hats 3. Becham's Sourcebooks; Exploring Harry Potter - they HATED this (and rightly so) and call it "pretentious", saying the "deconstructions are dim witted" - Penny, do you want to write a letter to the editor as Listmom of this mailing list, saying that we, as a list, agree with them, because there's nothing in the book which we haven't already discussed here, in more detail and (without sounding egomaniacal) with TONS more insight - they gave it 1 Wizard Hat 4. Harry Potter & The Sorcerer's Stone Trivia Game - "only obsessed wizard wannabes will survive" - 4 Wizard Hats 5. The COllector Stones Series I - one does not have to be a wizard to realize that "three shards of colored resin" aren't worth five dollars - half a Wizard Hat 6. Harry's Glasses - "shabby chic" - 4 Wizard Hats From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 02:17:21 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:17:21 -0000 Subject: Another Snape theory or a pitiful rehash? Message-ID: <90up3i+veei@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6507 In PoA Harry is hiding under the table at the three broomsticks, and overhears Fudge say this- "Worse even than that, m'dear..." Fudge dropped his voice and proceeded in a sort of low rumble. "Not many people are aware that the Potters knew You-Know-Who was after them. Dumbledore, who was of course working tirelessly against against You-Know-Who, had a number of useful spies. One of them tipped him off, and he alerted James and Lily at once. He advised them to go into hiding..." Now I'm just guessing, and theorizing that this spy of Dumbledore's was Snape. And another thought is that prehaps it wasn't him, and that Snape though on the side of light still wanted James dead. Sort of like in Medea where she kills her children b/c she hated Jason more than she loved them. Snape was TRYING to get James to Voldemort just b/c his hate for James was stronger than his alliance w/ Dumbledore. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 02:27:01 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:27:01 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas (OT) Message-ID: <90upll+f7qj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6508 Hi everyone, I know this is sort of OT, but I thought some of the Brits on the list could help this Yank by giving him some ideas. I want to do a dinner party for 5-7 people sometime near Christmas, and I want it to have a real British flair. So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice, and maybe some good recipes. I was thinking of serving lamb, probably Yorkshire pudding, Christmas pudding and...erm, what else would be good? I got some Christmas crackers at the mall today so I'm on my way. Also can anybody tell me if suet is the same thing as fatback? I think it is, or close enough that I could use it as a substitute... Help! Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 02:38:20 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:38:20 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task (again) In-Reply-To: <20001209222542.26112.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90uqas+rufl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6509 More comments from me- aren't you excited... > 2. Why don't parents object to their children's > staying at school over Christmas? Christmas has > always seemed to be a very family-oriented holiday, > yet most of the students choose to stay at school in > order to attend the Yule Ball. Also, what about > students of other faiths? Do they feel free to > participate in all the Christmas-related activities? matter to be covered. We've discussed this before and I think that most agree that the celebrations at Hogwarts are, for the most at least, secular. I am a Christian but one of my best friends is Hindu and she is celebrating Christmas for the first time this year, so I can buy the scenario of the books easily. Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may have overlooked??? Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From joym999 at aol.com Sun Dec 10 03:06:37 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:06:37 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task (again) In-Reply-To: <90uqas+rufl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90urvt+7jce@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6510 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would > have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. > explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may > have overlooked??? Well I am Jewish and I celebrate Christmas (and Hanukah, and whatever else is around). Jews, like Christians, come in all varieties. Some are like Joseph Lieberman and follow all the traditions and others like me always forget whether Jewish New Year is Rosh Hashonah or Yom Kippur. Anyway I think Hermione could easily be Jewish. Oy vey, vy not? I have bushy brown hair so clearly at least some Jews have bushy brown hair. (hows that for scientific, eh?) And Hermione is very good in school, and Jews according to stereotype are bookish and do well in school. (just what you wanted, right, a stereotype!) [Although I can tell you that even though I am not a very good Jew in terms of remembering the traditions I do know enough about the Jewish people to say that it is a fact that the stereotype that Jews are real smart is VERY not true -- you should see some of my relatives.] --Joywitch From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 10 03:15:00 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:15:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What's the platform number? References: <90n6hv+73is@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A32F534.D7449FBA@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6511 smitster wrote: > I'm probably just being picky, but why did Mother Weasley ask this in > SS/PS when the family arrived at the station? Well, you are being picky, but that's ok. It's fun to figure out the reasons for the niggling details. I suspect that you might not be a mother; if you were, you would understand. I think if I were a mother with as many children as Molly Weasley, I'd be happy if I could remember my name every day. I have two children, and I'm amazed at what it does to my I.Q. sometimes. Simple information you've known for years drops out of the brain when you are trying to herd children (with luggage) across a crowded public area. To me, that absent-mindedness is simply a realistic touch. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 10 03:15:54 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:15:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Goonies References: <90pmu7+e9e3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A32F569.E99CFC5@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6512 Caius Marcius wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > > Chris Columbus, the same fellow who's directing the new Harry > Potter > > movie, that's why I have this horrible feeling it's going to turn > > into the Little Rascals on broomsticks. Gah, what a horrible image. > I agree - IM(sort of)HO, giving Columbus the job of bringing HP to > the silver screen would be like having Neville Longbottom compete in > the Triwizards Tournament. I really think Neville Longbottom is going to surprise a lot of people these days. I think the Sorting Hat had a very good reason for putting him in Gryffindor. I really do think he'll be a late bloomer. Peg From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 10 03:55:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:55:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (OT) References: <90upll+f7qj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A32FEB8.2C606E83@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6513 Scott wrote: > I want to do a dinner party for 5-7 people sometime near Christmas, > and I want it to have a real British flair. So I was wondering if > anyone could give me advice, and maybe some good recipes. I was > thinking of serving lamb, probably Yorkshire pudding, Christmas > pudding and...erm, what else would be good? Goose. Do a goose. Do your lamb, too, though, because so far as I've ever been able to find, American stores are wildly proud of their geese and they cost a small fortune (unless you know a hunter who got lucky; that's how I got one, one year). If you do cook one, be advised they are very, very greasy, sort of like duck, not dry like turkey at all. You have to keep siphoning off the grease. Oh, yeah, tell everyone to say Happy Christmas instead of Merry. It takes a bit of practice. --Amanda, still thinking... From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 05:08:31 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 23:08:31 -0600 Subject: AOL, Harry Potter, and a quiz Message-ID: <000c01c06267$3df39120$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 6514 This is from a hp site on AOL http://familyeducation.com/topic/front/0,1156,22-16701,00.html Harry Potter GoF quiz http://familyeducation.com/quiz/0,1399,22-17037,00.html?aolci-f Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Harry Potter is back on another magical adventure. Test your knowledge of the newest story to see if you're a wiz like Harry! Who did Harry take to the Yule Ball? Parvati. Hermione. Cho Chang. Right! Harry asked Cho Chang to the ball, but she was going with Cedric Diggory, so instead he asked Parvati to go with him. Your score is: 20 Next Question Harry Potter is back on another magical adventure. Test your knowledge of the newest story to see if you're a wiz like Harry! Who does Harry see die in the story? Cedric Diggory. Lord Voldemort. Ron Weasley. Right! Cedric was killed by Voldemort when he and Harry were transported to a graveyard, just after completing the third task of the Triwizard Tournament. Your score is: 40 Next Question Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Harry Potter is back on another magical adventure. Test your knowledge of the newest story to see if you're a wiz like Harry! Who wrote the article in the Daily Prophet that said Harry was disturbed and dangerous? Hermione. Dumbledore. Rita Skeeter. Correct! Rita Skeeter wrote the article. She had written a few about Harry and picked on Hermione a bit, too. Your score is: 60 Next Question Harry Potter is back on another magical adventure. Test your knowledge of the newest story to see if you're a wiz like Harry! What was the name of Voldemort's father? Barty Crouch. Tom Riddle. Lord Voldemort the First. Right answer! When Harry is transported to the graveyard and meets Voldemort, he learns that Voldemort's father was a muggle named Tom Riddle. Your score is: 80 Next Question Harry Potter is back on another magical adventure. Test your knowledge of the newest story to see if you're a wiz like Harry! What's a portkey? A key that unlocks a secret room at Hogwarts. An object that transports wizards from one place to another at a pre-arranged time. A key that allows muggles to unlock magical powers. Right! At the beginning of the story, Mr. Weasley explained that a portkey is an object that transports wizards from one place to another at a pre-arranged time. The Triwizard Cup was a portkey that caused Harry to meet up with Voldemort. Your score is: 100 See how you did You scored 100 out of a possible 100 points. How'd you do? Compare your score with the ranges below. 0-20: You need a little more Potter power. 40-60: Sorcerer's apprentice. 80-100: Wiz! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 10 03:48:01 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:48:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Professor Trelawny References: <90rvtl+mc0g@eGroups.com> <3A318A0D.BC52A694@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A32FCF1.FC7158F8@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6515 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Thanks to Scott for chiming in with this summary! It is *more* than > satisfactory -- I enjoyed it very much in fact. :--) > Yes, a very good job, Scott. > I was listening to PoA in the car today -- the Talons & Tea Leaves > chapter. Harry's tea leaves do say that he will receive unexpected > gold, a windfall. Does this mean that his winnings in GoF were > predicted in this chapter? If so, what do we think of Ron's tea > leaves? Suffering, trials & tribulations but happy. I can't decide > what that might mean specifically -- it's not as specific as the > unexpected gold. I think someone might have pointed out earlier (can't remember who it was) that we may have been getting hints that Ron might actually have the makings of a true seer. It was Ron who read Harry's tea leaves, right? And there were several examples, which we discussed before, where Ron makes an off-the-cuff remark which we discover later was, amazingly, true. And Ron almost thinks as little of divination as Hermione does--if Rowling does decide to run with this, I can see a possible source of ironic humor. Can't you just see the look of horror on Ron's face when Dumbledore breaks the awful news? "WHAT? I'm really a seer? Does that mean I have to teach in a classroom with little lace doilies draped on all the chairs?" Peg From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 10 04:27:49 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 22:27:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] even more wand order stuff References: <90udft+kqs5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A330645.83392BEC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6516 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Here's the way it looks from where I'm standing. The order that James > and Lily come out of the wand tells us the order in which they died, > no question about that. But any way you look at it, the spells that > killed them came out of the wand AFTER the one that sent Voldemort > packing, since that spell was not one of the nine that did come out. Okay, I think I see what you mean. Didn't we talk about whether echoes would be perceivable or not? I mean, if a spell was cast and did not work/had no tangible form, how would one perceive the echo in the Reverse Effect? If someone didn't die (so a shadow-person emerges), wasn't tortured (so you hear screams), or something wasn't created (Wormtail's new hand), or some other thing you could see or hear, how would you know the spell had been there? The Avada Kedavra spell that was cast at Harry did not kill him, and did not kill Voldemort. What shadow can we possibly see of that spell, to place it in the "order" of the reverse count? And thus, how would (do?) we know that it came before or after the Potters? I think I got that phrased right. Hope so, it's late. --Amanda From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Sun Dec 10 05:12:36 2000 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:12:36 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Breaking News! Message-ID: <54.d0e1748.27646ac4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6517 I read this article too today, and I thought, "yea, we know already!"...I thought it was already mentioned months ago that the new book wouldn't be ready until November, perhaps co-inciding with the movie. Didn't it come out a few weeks ago that JKR was finally getting some time to actually sit down and *write* the book? ~shahara From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Sun Dec 10 05:13:16 2000 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:13:16 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: butter on your popcorn? from Suzanne Kensington Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6518 wah! didn't get the attachment...usually I wouldn't care, but I love popcorn! ~shahara From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 10 07:42:46 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:42:46 EST Subject: NON-partisan election message/was butter on popcorn Message-ID: <3a.dee12ef.27648df6@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6519 I wish we were all together in a theater (the seats would be comfortable recliners, of course, with rows slanted in such a way that nobody's view of the screen would be blocked) where we could watch the final days of this presidential drama with those we love and who are of the same political belief.? As the hours grew later we could switch from popcorn, junior mints and coke to bread, cheese and a good merlot.? May the Force be with us. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 10 07:43:13 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:43:13 -0000 Subject: Fwd: butter on your popcorn? from Suzanne Kensington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90vc6h+4o22@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6520 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, NOTaMuggleFamily at a... wrote: > wah! didn't get the attachment...usually I wouldn't care, but I love popcorn! > ~shahara Sorry, I have re-sent From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 10 07:59:13 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:59:13 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task In-Reply-To: <20001209222542.26112.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90vd4h+l33k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6521 > > "Hermione, Neville's right ? you are a girl " says > Ron. Hermione doesn't think much of his choice of > pick-up lines, and tells him that she's going with > someone else. Ron refuses to believe her, and the two > argue. Ron tries to get Ginny to go as Harry's date, > but Ginny admits that she is going with Neville, > because she didn't think she'd have a date otherwise. > > Parvati and Lavender enter the common room, and Harry > asks Parvati to go with him. After a cascade of > giggles, she agrees. He asks Lavender to go with Ron, > but Lavender says she is going with Seamus. Parvati > offers to ask her twin sister Padma to be Ron's date, > and Harry hopes that Padma Patil's nose is in the > center of her face. > > Discussion Questions > > 1. I loved this chapter because I thought JKR did an > excellent job of portraying a young adolescent's view > of romance and dating. Harry and Ron seem trapped in > a fear of girls in large groups and the accompanying > giggling. They also want nothing to do with the > unattractive girls in their class, like Eloise Midgen. > This seems pretty close to what I remember from when > I was 13 or 14 years old. Do other list members, > especially any who may be in their early teens, agree > with this? All I know is that I keep obsessing about instructions to my son (now 3) when he asks a girl (or a boy) to the ball. You must pay attention to your date; you must dance with your date; you must focus on your date having a good time. You may not wander off with with your best friend. You may not ignore your date to glare at a boy who is with the girl you want to be with.... here are the basic rules of courtesy.. when I was a teenager it was a mixed bag..the boys who were the most popular were actually those who were the most courteous not necessarily the most good looking...girls who were good looking were asked out a lot, but also there were girls who were very animated, or fun, who also got asked.. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 10 08:07:09 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 08:07:09 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task In-Reply-To: <90umj7+ftac@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90vdjd+1het@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6522 > > Is he deliberately leaving out the interesting stuff?!?! I can't > believe you bothered to ask this! I didn't know that a History > teacher COULD be anything but tedious and excruciatingly dull!!! > > Scott > > hmmm..I almost WAS a history teacher, and may become one again. My favorite history prof was one in graduate school who taught the course about reformers, kooks, radicals, etc. in the early 1840s, and then there was the history professor who taught the anarchy course in undergraduate, and the classics professor who taught the one about goddesses, whores, wives and slaves: women in classical antiquity. I've also taken a course about British naval heroes and their fictional counterparts -- Lord Nelson and Horatio Hornblower.......or the one about resistance fighters which covered Frances Marion, WWII resistance fighters, Mao, and Ho Chi Minh.....Did you know that Margaret Sanger was pro-eugenics? That if history were portrayed correctly that African American soldiers would have been in the movies Platoon and Patton? That mistletoe, holly, ivy, caroling, were and are pagan artifacts first? I just love history From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 10 08:30:49 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 08:30:49 -0000 Subject: the four (five?) founders? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90vevp+m0f5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6523 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > If I remember correctly, the names of the two characters captured > in Ivanhoe were Rowena and Cedric. Does this spark any ideas? I have bookmarked a more or less adequate name site, "The Etymology and History of First Names" at http://www.behindthename.com which says CEDRIC (m) Invented by Sir Walter Scott for a character in his novel 'Ivanhoe'. Apparently he based it on the actual name Cerdic, of unknown meaning, the name of the legendary founder of the kingdom of Wessex. Cedric is also sometimes said to mean "bounty spectacle" from the Welsh name Cedrych, or "lord of wars" (Old English), but these theories are not likely true. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 08:48:18 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 08:48:18 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (OT) References: <90upll+f7qj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009601c06286$06d78060$d63670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6524 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott " To: Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 2:27 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (OT) > Hi everyone, > > I know this is sort of OT, but I thought some of the Brits on the > list could help this Yank by giving him some ideas. > > I want to do a dinner party for 5-7 people sometime near Christmas, > and I want it to have a real British flair. So I was wondering if > anyone could give me advice, and maybe some good recipes. I was > thinking of serving lamb, probably Yorkshire pudding, Christmas > pudding and...erm, what else would be good? Um, lamb isn't a Christmas thing. Also, Yorkshire Pudding is always served with beef and any variance from that rule is punishable by death. You should serve mint sauce with lamb. A traditional British Christmas meal - modern version - is a massive roast turkey with stuffing, bread sauce, potatoes (roast and mashed), roasted parsnips, brussels sprouts, carrots (perhaps peas) and maybe chipolatas (thin sausages), topped off with lashings of gravy made with the turkey giblets. This is usually followed by Christmas Pudding with brandy butter and/or cream and/or custard. If you want to be really authentic you could hide a small coin in the pudding (it used to be a sixpence...maybe use a quarter) and the person who breaks their tooth on that is allowed to make a wish. I'm not sure about a starter - my mother never served one - but perhaps some nice parsnip soup? Crackers are essential - the cheaper the better. In the afternoon you might try mulled wine (red wine, spiced with cloves and other things) and mice pies. It's also advisable to pig out on things like nuts, satsumas, dates, turkish delight and chocolates by the sackload whilst viewing Christmas 'specials' on the telly. Later on, it's traditional to have a blazing row with a relative about something trivial and get completely rat-arsed. You could serve cold roast beef for tea as you will be picking from the turkey carcas for at least a week and it's nice to have some variety in your flesh-eating (ahem, I'm a vegetarian). If you want a more 'Victorian' Christmas, then dress in a stiff collar and go with Amanda's idea of goose. I'd have to say, though, that the average British person would never have eaten goose and it would be hard to find one for the table unless you were a member of the aristocracy or a farmer. Neil From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 08:56:06 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 08:56:06 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (OT) References: <90upll+f7qj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a501c06287$0924fd60$d63670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6525 More Christmas advice for Scott: Oh yeah... some people pour neat brandy on the pudding and set it alight, but if you decide to do that be careful or you may have to spend Boxing Day pencilling in new eyebrows. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Dec 10 09:25:51 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:25:51 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6526 Neil wrote: "mice pies" Mice pies? Are they any good? Having got that out of the way onto something a bit more serious. My Christmas Dinner this year will be something like (cooking for 5 unless plans alter). Please note that this meal will start sometime in the early afternoon and then go on for at least two hours - hence why there is so much food and why so many courses. Starter 1: Pate (imagine an appropriately placed accent on the e) Starter 2: Prawn Cocktail Probably only a choice of one of those two, but maybe both - we are still in the planning stage. Fish Course - maybe, we cannot decide if enough of the people (i.e. two definitely will not eat fish) there will eat fish to warrant this course. Main Course: Roast Turkey Sage and Onion Stuffing Apricot and Rice Stuffing Roast Potatoes Mash Potatoes Roast Parsnips - glazed in honey Carrots - in lime butter Small sausages (chipolatas) Bacon (put on the turkey during roasting) Brussels Sprouts in Hazelnut something or other (I do not eat these so have no idea what happens to them!) Cranberry Sauce (Homemade of course) Bread Sauce Gravy Dessert: Christmas pudding - with brandy done carefully, so we do not burn down half the house or my eyebrows. I object to loosing eyebrows to something I will not even eat (and I think just object to loosing them full stop). After Dessert: Port and Stilton (this course is for my mother and myself who will be fed up of having been cooking for most of the day and will want something nice to look forward to at the end of the meal - neither of us particularly likes Christmas pudding). Another Course: Coffee (tea for those of us who do not drink coffee), brandy and chocolate mints and maybe mince pies. Cracker to be opened somewhere in the above - we usually make our own and put one small Christmas present in it. So in some years the crackers have cost a fortune as we have struggled to find anything that anyone wanted that was small enough to fit in the crackers. There is also a Christmas cake to be added in if anyone feels that they have not got enough to eat! Neil wrote: "You could serve cold roast beef for tea as you will be picking from the turkey carcas for at least a week and it's nice to have some variety in your flesh-eating (ahem, I'm a vegetarian)." If you buy a correctly sized turkey then it does Christmas lunch (or dinner if you wish to call it that) and one other meal. The important thing is to make sure you get a correctly sized one, or else it will be turkey everything for about a week! Neil wrote: "In the afternoon you might try mulled wine (red wine, spiced with cloves and other things) and mice pies. It's also advisable to pig out on things like nuts, satsumas, dates, turkish delight and chocolates by the sackload whilst viewing Christmas 'specials' on the telly. Later on, it's traditional to have a blazing row with a relative about something trivial and get completely rat-arsed." We sometimes do this in the morning - little afternoon left after the big lunch! Or maybe while watching television that evening. I realised a couple of years ago (when I was 18) that that was the first year I had ever watched television on Christmas Day. On Boxing Day it will be a cooked breakfast and then pigging out on any food you can find for the rest of the day as we eat up any food we can find. Also we already have three bottles of rose wine for Christmas and 22 cans of Boddingtons (I drank 2 while no one was looking!). Now we just need to get the red and white wine and anything else we want to drink (like the port and brandy). Simon (looking forward to Christmas already! - I get little chance to over indulge all year as I am a poor student, Christmas is, therefore, very good fun) From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 10 10:13:18 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:13:18 -0000 Subject: long Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task In-Reply-To: <20001209222542.26112.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90vkvu+v9ls@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6527 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Sarah Rettger wrote: > > Several girls, however, ask Harry, and he flatly rejects each of > them. As a young person, I was taught that it is very bad manners to reject anyone who politely asks you to be his date to the prom. The only permissible grounds for rejection are if you already promised someone else, you are not going to go, or your parents had forbidden you to have anything to do with him in particular. It is possible to lie when using the excuse that you are already going with someone else... Harry didn't even bother to use the polite lie. Something I didn't really notice the first time I read GoF: girls asking boys to the ball was not standard Muggle practise in my day. Even if it has become standard Muggle practise now, it meshes oddly with the wizarding world's many old-fashioned features. At first, I just assumed that the girls were so forward because they were pursuing Harry only because he was the TriWizard Champion, but later realised that girls asking boys for a date might be perfectly normal in the wizarding world, part of the gender equality shown by having two out of four ('four') Founders be female. If so, some of the boys didn't have to go through that fear of rejection thing and some of the girls did. At first, I noticed only that the girls were pursuing the Hogwarts TriWizard Champion rather than pursuing Harry ... then I noticed that the big deal about being a Champion's date was the glory of opening the ball. That is a glory (being on public display) that would NOT be desired by a person who thinks heesh is ugly or hisir dress robe is ugly or heesh is a very bad dancer (Harry, for example, tried to get out of it). So if it had somehow happened that Ron did achieve his wish of being Fleur's date, he would have spent all the rest of the time until the ball wishing that he HADN'T, because of worrying about everyone watching him in his horrible dress robe, and watching him not know how to dance. > while it is known that the Weird > Sisters will be providing the music for the evening. I wish JKR had told us the number, gender and species of the Weird Sisters. I imagine there are 5 to 7 of them. (I didn't count the instruments waiting on stage, but there can be fewer players than instruments. There can be MORE instruments than players if some players carry their inseperable instrument with them, such as singers. I typo'ed signers, but that would not be a typo if describing a modern Muggle concert with a sign language interpreter for the deaf.) I imagine that all of them are male and bearded, but some are not entirely human: might one or more be half-Giant and as big as Hagrid? Would the hottest band in wizardom fall into disfavor if Rita Skeeter revealed that the ten foot tall man was half-Giant? > Ron asks his brothers if they've found dates yet, and both of them > admit that they have not. Q: Who are you going with? A: Angelina. Q: Have you asked her yet? A: No. Q: Shouldn't you? A: > Fred decides to quickly rectify the situation by asking Angelina, > who is sitting in another corner of the room. By shouting across the room to her. This makes it obvious that he is not afraid that anyone would hear her reject him. Which shows that he is confident either of all Gryffindors' esteem of him, or that AngieJ will accept. I believe that he is confident that Angie will accept, that in fact both of them already knew that they would go to the ball together, because they're going steady (do modern people still have the stages of relationships, from 'going together' to 'going steady' to 'engaged to get engaged' to 'engaged to be married'?) and that is pretty much what going steady *means*: an agreement that if there is a dating type event, the two go to it together or not at all (also, no flirting with other people). I suppose that Fred put on this little act, instead of telling Ron "I don't have to ASK her, we're going steady", to have some fun with Ron not having noticed the romance going on. > She agrees, It says she looked him up and down once carefully before answering Okay and turning back to her conversation with (Katie?). Some people understand this to mean that she looked him over to decide whether to accept his invitation, therefore that they are not going steady. I believe that she was just looking him over to see what kind of a joke he was playing NOW ... because they've been in the same House and the same Quidditch team for *years*, she must already know without having to look at him whether she wants to go out with him. Btw, I think it must be a brave and tolerant person who would pairbond with a Weasley twin. We don't hear anything about George's date or lack of date. I like to imagine that he's going with Katie Bell, but some people like to imagine that he's gay. > > Cho, who tells [Harry] that she's going with Cedric. In another example of adult HP fans having the same mentality as secondary school students (apologies to the real secondary school students on the list, who seem much more mature than my memories of being that age), there is argument whether: 1) Cho really would have preferred to go with Harry and is selfishly regretful that she already agreed to go with someone else. 2) Cho is regretful only that she hurt Harry's feelings, something which she (being a very nice person: other examples are, she picks up his quill when everyone else outside Gryffindor is heckling him, and she doesn't wear a POTTER STINKS button) doesn't like doing. 3) The ball is Cho and Cedric's first date. For all any of us really KNOW, they know each other more from the Gay-Lesbian-Students club than from interHouse Quidditch. 4) Cho and Cedric have been a couple all this time (making her lack of POTTER STINKS button all the more noble) and Harry just didn't notice. In my universe, they started going together during PoA. At the end of that year, when Cedric asked Cho to go steady with him, she did the right thing and told him it is not wise to make a commitment like that and then rush off to separate holidays, but if he still wanted to go steady when they got back to school, he should ask him again then. Which he did, and she joyously fell into his arms. And at the Yule Ball, in the making out in the rose bushes (I would have been scared of thorns) part of the evening, he asked her to get engaged to be engaged, and gave her a little silver ring with a heart shape on it. Which she is twisting around her finger at the funeral. It might not come off her finger until she makes an actual Decision to take it off... For her sake, it should break from metal fatigue (which a number of little silver rings have done on me) or get lost down a sink when she washes her hands. Maybe, in that world where girls invite boys to dates, girls invite boys to commit to relationships, but my elderly imagination can't quite see it. > Parvati and Lavender enter the common room, and Harry asks Parvati > to go with him. After a cascade of giggles, she agrees. (snip) > Parvati offers to ask her twin sister Padma to be Ron's date, and > Harry hopes that Padma Patil's nose is in the center of her face. At some point, some other boy asks how Harry and Ron (implication: two graceless lunks) managed to get the two prettiest girls in their year. Which led someone on the list to ask why the two prettiest girls in their years didn't have dates yet. I imagine that Parvati, at least, had turned down other offers because she was counting on going with Harry and opening the ball. She's lived in Gryffindor Tower and taken classes with Harry for 3.5 years, and if that isn't enough for her to know him well enough to know that he'll leave getting a date until the last, desperate minute, she may also be talking more with her roommate Hermione than we readers guess. Or she might know it from Divination . > 2. Why don't parents object to their children's staying at school > over Christmas? Christmas has always seemed to be a very > family-oriented holiday, yet most of the students choose to stay at > school in order to attend the Yule Ball. While the 'big doings' at Hogwarts this year might have been supposed to be secret until announced after the students arrive at school, I believe that the parents must have been told WHY they have to supply dress robes this year. At least, that at Christmas, there would be a very very important formal dance where there would be students from classy foreign wizarding schools and other important people, and making a good appearance at the Ball would be very good for their child's future career. Because *some* kids will cry and whine and sulk and threaten suicide if they have to go to the Ball instead of going home (not that they love home THAT much, but they can't stand to go to the Ball to make a public display that no one wants to dance or snog with them) but their parents FORCE them to attend the Ball. > 3. How does the Wizarding Wireless Network function? I am quite certain that Wizarding Wireless has nothing to do with the electromagnetic spectrum. It works by some totally different form of magic, perhaps related to the magic that makes the golden egg sing when underwater. Muggle Wireless got that name by contrast to telegraphy, which uses wires. I invented Spellegraphy, the wizarding version of telegraphy, but the original Spellegraph used ley lines, not wires, so the wizard radio should be called Leyless not Wireless. There have been considerable improvements in the Spellegraph spell (some amounting to total change of spell?) during the twentieth century, so now it has nothing to do with ley lines and is more like e-mail than like telegraph. But I don't see it as ever having needed anything like Morse code, but rather it has always been two enchanted quills, one at the sending station with which the operator writes the message and one at the receiving station which writes the message with no hand on it, just by writing in sympathy with the sending quill. > 4. Why does Professor Binns never teach about anything > but goblins rebellions? There were probably a LOT of goblin rebellions, which says something about the preserverance of goblins... and that they must have been quite oppressed before they started Gringotts. However, I vaguely recall from Book 1 that Binns also lectured about mad old wizards who had invented self-stirring cauldrons. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 10 09:55:51 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:55:51 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What's the platform number? Message-ID: <01C062F2.2F73CDA0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6528 I don't know about being a mother but asking that question is also a good way to focus the kiddies attention. storm -----Original Message----- From: Peg Kerr [SMTP:pkerr06 at attglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 1:15 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] What's the platform number? smitster wrote: > I'm probably just being picky, but why did Mother Weasley ask this in > SS/PS when the family arrived at the station? Well, you are being picky, but that's ok. It's fun to figure out the reasons for the niggling details. I suspect that you might not be a mother; if you were, you would understand. I think if I were a mother with as many children as Molly Weasley, I'd be happy if I could remember my name every day. I have two children, and I'm amazed at what it does to my I.Q. sometimes. Simple information you've known for years drops out of the brain when you are trying to herd children (with luggage) across a crowded public area. To me, that absent-mindedness is simply a realistic touch. Peg To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sun Dec 10 10:37:19 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:37:19 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] long Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task References: <90vkvu+v9ls@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a101c06295$3340ae60$6c0a8cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6529 It is possible to lie when using the excuse that you are already going with someone else... Harry didn't even bother to use the polite lie. Just two things that sprung to mind when reading this - don't forget that " dating " in my experience doesn't tend to happen until you are about 15 or 16 in the UK. Ands the other thing to remember is that by Christmas, Harry had already been up on a pedestal for quite some time. In the first three books, the danger and mystery is only vague by the Christmas sequences - he doesn't know much about it and is relatively safe. And then he has to deal with girls ? All too much for him. Remember that he has no older man that he can easily turn to, becuase he can't really owl Sirius about trivial things. By this point in GOF, he's seen some of what a death eater is and he knows someone has managed to get him into a dangerous inter school competition which he doesn't have the knowledge to fight. As for Girls asking Harry, they might just have decided that if he's too shy to ask, they aren't going to lose the chance of being on the arm of the school's most eligible bachelor ( one of them anyway - I prefer Fred or George Weasley ) just by dint of not opening their mouths. > > > while it is known that the Weird > > Sisters will be providing the music for the evening. > > I wish JKR had told us the number, gender and species of the Weird > Sisters. Yes, that bothered me too. > > Fred decides to quickly rectify the situation by asking Angelina, > > who is sitting in another corner of the room. > > By shouting across the room to her. This makes it obvious that he is > not afraid that anyone would hear her reject him. Which shows that he > is confident either of all Gryffindors' esteem of him, or that AngieJ > will accept. I just think that he's sure of himself - both twins are. Anyway, that just about wraps up my thoughts on this chapter. Look forward to reading more. Michelle From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 10 10:43:38 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:43:38 -0000 Subject: Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin In-Reply-To: <90ufck+9rop@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <90vmoq+107it@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6530 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Karin " wrote: > > Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin what a very Gryffindor song. > > Then one ordinary school day, > Mad-Eye came to say (Constant Vigilance!), > Malfoy, with your face like a ferret, > Wouldn't you like to be a rodent? Ferrets are not rodents. Ferrets are mustelids, related to weasels and minks and ermines and stoats and European polecats. A number of Americans have ferrets as cuddly pets -- they look UTTERLY cute -- and some call them 'weasels' as the kind of rude affectionate nickname as calling your beloved dog 'fleabag' or 'mutt'. Why is it only mink and ermines, not ferrets and weasels and stoats and polecats, who are known for enthusiastic sex lives? Is it just that mink and ermine fur are worn by rich humans as well as by minks and ermines? The on-line Britannica says: Ferret: either of two mammals belonging to the genus Mustela of the weasel family (Mustelidae). The common ferret (M. putorius furo) is a domesticated form of the European polecat (q.v.), which it resembles... the caption of the illustration is: Black-footed ferret (Mustela nigripes) I found another site for info: http://www.ferretcentral.org/faq/history.html From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 10 11:12:01 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:12:01 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task Message-ID: <01C062F6.3F616C00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6531 > > Is he deliberately leaving out the interesting stuff?!?! I can't > believe you bothered to ask this! I didn't know that a History > teacher COULD be anything but tedious and excruciatingly dull!!! > > Scott > > hmmm..I almost WAS a history teacher, and may become one again. ...... sorry Scott, I'm with Susan on this one, good history or history well taught is the best but a bad (unexciting rather than morally corrupt) teacher can make any subject dull (even HP - I'm thinking of that crib book that we have discussed that/which I can't remember the name of right now) storm -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 6:07 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Dec 10 11:44:17 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 10 Dec 2000 11:44:17 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <976448657.21540@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6532 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Fanfic by Catlady/Lily01.htm Uploaded by : catlady at wicca.net Description : "Lily Potter and a Small Circle of Friends" Instal1ment 01: Spring 1979 You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/Fanfic+by+Catlady/Lily01%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, catlady at wicca.net From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 12:02:20 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:02:20 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas References: Message-ID: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6533 Simon said: > Neil wrote: "mice pies" > > Mice pies? Are they any good? They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled cat. *** Simon, you reminded me of something: chestnuts! Brussels sprouts go very well with roasted chestnuts. I also like sprouts tossed with butter, a bit of mild mustard and poppy seeds. Simon's right about the Xmas afternoon disappearing. I prefer to eat dinner in the evening, so it's good to have a late breakfast of wholemeal toast, scrambled eggs and mushrooms and champagne, orange juice or a bit of both (Buck's Fizz) and then eat again around 6pm (filling in the gap with chocolates). Last year myself and a friend cooked for 10+ people, including a bunch of carnivorous Sicilians. The Mafia brought some of their traditions to the event: plates of cured meat and cheese and a house made from biscuits (cookies). We treated them to chestnut en croute with mushroom sauce and meat-free sausages plus the usual vegetables, if I recall correctly, and they were amazed that it was edible. They probably spent the next day gnawing at fresh meat to make up for their loss... but they didn't complain at the time. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sun Dec 10 12:10:26 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:10:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed it) Message-ID: <20001210121026.9602.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6534 The theory I mentioned basically placed Durmstrang somewhere on the Kola-peninsula in Northern Russia, which left me free to conceive a united Scandinavian school of magic (which would make sense, as none of the Scandinavian countries really have a large enough magical population to have their own school). We know that Durmstrang is to the far North, near mountains, lakes and, most likely, the ocean, so the only places it could be would be around Narvik, on the Helgeland-coast of Norway, or at the Kola-peninsula. In the North of Sweden might work as well, near the Norwegian border. One explanation why a school with such a German name would be in the North of Russia (moentarily disregarding what JKR said) may be that it was originally located in, say the Teutonic regions of Poland or Balticum. Then somebody decided to grow a religious conscience, coupled it with a bout of fanaticism and inquisition, and suddenly the school has to evacuate in a rush, with some going North, ending up in Russia, and others perhaps ending up in Germany proper. (Would my English-teacher have redlined the entirety of that last sentence? Yes, I think so!) If it is located in Norway, then it should be located near Bergen, as that is the one place in Norway where there was heavy German influence (it was one of the main offices of the Hansa-league for centuries, with 10-15% of the population fo the city at any time being German). Bergen is rather to the South in Norway, however, and for the rest of the Norwegian magical population, it would make more sence going to magical school at Hogwarts than at Durmstrang (particularly taking into regard what somebody said earlier about Helga Hufflepuff probably having a Danish connection), if they had none of their own. Sweden, on the other hand, has had more connections culturally with Germany and the Hansa-league, and with Russia (Russia has its origins in Swedish viking-realms). Yes, I am Norwegian. From Lofoten, in fact (where the sun set a couple of days ago, not to rise again for nearly a month). --- Sara Ludwig skrev: > I think Durmstrang is in Eastern Europe, somewhere near Romania but > in a colder part! > I don't want to have Durmstrang in my neighborhood either, shudder. > Are you Norwegian, Christian? > catrina > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Frn: Christian Stub > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 10 december 2000 00:28 > mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Jo in Glasgow (longish - 'cos we enjoyed > it) > > > --- Pam Scruton skrev: > [snip] > > I don't think she told us anything that hasn't been said before. > [snip] > > I was interested to hear that the two Comic Relief books are now > > finished and will be out as scheduled in March. > > Will this be ecsclusively in UK and/or USA? > > [snip] > > Jo thinks that Durmstrang is in northern Scandanavia - the very > north > > of Sweden or Norway and that Beauxbatons is somewhere near Cannes > in > > the south of France. She says she doesn't know for certain > because, > > of course, the exact whereabouts of these schools is a closely- > > guarded secret to which she is not privy! > [snip] > > Drats! There went my magnificent theory (and an idea I had (I am > pondering whether or not to get myself involved in fanfiction), > unless > I choose to focus on the second (secrecy) part of what she said). > Well, well - can't win it all. I am having some trouble seeing > Scandinavians being mroe ready to go to Durmstrang than to > Hogwarts, > though (and I do not want Durmstrang in my neighbourhood). > > ===== > "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion > eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix > thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" > --------------------------------------------- > Christian Stub > Student of Technology, architectura navalis > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Sun Dec 10 13:50:42 2000 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 08:50:42 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas Message-ID: <15.ce30a41.2764e432@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6535 He wouldn't know...he's vegetarian! ~shahara (who is also a veggie!) << Neil wrote: "mice pies" Mice pies? Are they any good? >> From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 10 13:48:02 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:48:02 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task (again) References: <90uqas+rufl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001a01c062b0$af964180$25c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6536 I agree, Hermione could be a jew. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Scott Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 10 december 2000 03:38 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task (again) More comments from me- aren't you excited... > 2. Why don't parents object to their children's > staying at school over Christmas? Christmas has > always seemed to be a very family-oriented holiday, > yet most of the students choose to stay at school in > order to attend the Yule Ball. Also, what about > students of other faiths? Do they feel free to > participate in all the Christmas-related activities? matter to be covered. We've discussed this before and I think that most agree that the celebrations at Hogwarts are, for the most at least, secular. I am a Christian but one of my best friends is Hindu and she is celebrating Christmas for the first time this year, so I can buy the scenario of the books easily. Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may have overlooked??? Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Sun Dec 10 13:55:01 2000 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 08:55:01 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: A very British Christmas/Crackers Message-ID: <10.5de81d7.2764e535@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6537 Ok, I'd love to make these for my family...any ideas as to what to put in them? Is there ever candy or nuts, coins, or just little gifts? I am thinking a few marbles, mini keychain, little plastic or wooden animals, tiny deck of cards...that sort of thing?? ~shahara <> From mzettl at freenet.de Sun Dec 10 14:09:52 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:09:52 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another Snape theory or a pitiful rehash? References: <90up3i+veei@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004d01c062b2$de96cf20$772c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6538 > Now I'm just guessing, and theorizing that this spy of Dumbledore's > was Snape. That's what I thought when I read that passage. But I'm biased, I like Snape and wish he weren't *that* mean. Dumbledore said in PS that Snape hated James even more because he saved his life and felt that he had to repay that debt and tried to protect Harry. Then he should have wanted to keep James alive because he felt that he was owing him - and he still helped Harry because he couldn't save James and probably was feeling even more guilty... Dinah From chrisworm at hotmail.com Sun Dec 10 15:14:15 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:14:15 -0000 Subject: Please, please, please!!!!! Message-ID: <9106k7+794v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6539 Hi' everyone, I'm new to this group, so hello (bows!) I was wondering if anyone could help me with a piece of information? I've been looking around for a while - but you guys write so much that it's quite impossible to look through everything. I'm writing a project on Harry Potter w. special emphasis on intertextual references, and I have read on some fanpage or other that You-know-who, was named after a wizard/warlock who was defeated by Merlin - pre-Arthur. Can anyone tell me where this originated, as I can hardly put in my project without a solid reference. Anyway - great to be here. -and thanks Christine From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 10 15:24:58 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:24:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A33A04A.8EE1F56D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6540 Neil Ward wrote: > Simon, you reminded me of something: chestnuts! Brussels sprouts go very > well with roasted chestnuts. I also like sprouts tossed with butter, a bit > of mild mustard and poppy seeds. Which reminds me, Simon. If you are in a civilzed area with civilized stores, unlike most in San Antonio, and can get the jars of chestnuts already out of their shells, I have an absolutely killer recipe for chestnut stuffing. If you have to shell the chestnuts themselves, it takes a bit of time, but still worth it. I got the recipe from a Polish cookbook, and have made it a couple of times, and it tastes wonderful. Email if you're interested. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 10 15:31:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:31:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: A very British Christmas/Crackers References: <10.5de81d7.2764e535@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A33A1E8.E398EB00@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6541 NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com wrote: > Ok, I'd love to make these for my family...any ideas as to what to put in > them? Is there ever candy or nuts, coins, or just little gifts? I am > thinking a few marbles, mini keychain, little plastic or wooden animals, tiny > deck of cards...that sort of thing?? I'd like to know how to make them "crack," for they do pop, as I recall. > put one small Christmas present in it. So in some years the crackers have > cost a fortune as we have struggled to find anything that anyone wanted that > was small enough to fit in the crackers.>> Some of the smaller James Avery silver charms are still in the area of $10. I've used these as the prize baked into things before. Considering what pre-made crackers tend to run over here, is that overly expensive? I'm not sure. James Avery is a Kerrville, Texas-based silversmith, whose work is superb, for those who haven't heard of him. He does the kind of detail on his lost-wax stuff that I'd do if I could cast metal. He's got stores all over San Antonio, I'm not sure where else, but he's bound to have a webpage.... --Amanda From chrisworm at hotmail.com Sun Dec 10 15:59:11 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:59:11 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis Message-ID: <91098f+moj6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6542 Just a thought that's been bugging me.... The CS Lewis connection has been mentioned before, and I was just thinking that if HP is going to follow along the same lines and become increasingly sinister - then I'm not sure I'll have the guts to read the last to books (UGH!) Or maybe it's just me:-) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Dec 10 16:04:28 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 16:04:28 -0000 Subject: crackers (Christmas - rather than describing some people on this group!) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6543 Shahara wrote: "Ok, I'd love to make these for my family...any ideas as to what to put in them? Is there ever candy or nuts, coins, or just little gifts? I am thinking a few marbles, mini keychain, little plastic or wooden animals, tiny deck of cards...that sort of thing??" Amanda asked: "I'd like to know how to make them "crack," for they do pop, as I recall." If you can find the right shop then you can buy the bits, to insert in the crackers, which go pop when you open them. My mother gets them from a party / gift type of shop. They are called Cracker Snaps and the only places I have found them online only sell them in packs of 144 (one possible site that does is: http://www.oldenglishcrackers.com/). I am fairly certain it is possible to buy them in much smaller pack but have not found anywhere online that does. It is also possible to buy kits that include the wrapping paper, snap, jokes, toys, hats and whatever else is needed to make a set of crackers. Amanda wrote: "Some of the smaller James Avery silver charms are still in the area of $10. I've used these as the prize baked into things before. Considering what pre-made crackers tend to run over here, is that overly expensive? I'm not sure." It really depends on what you want to do. When my family makes Christmas Crackers they are being made specifically for the person and are then also used as place settings at the Christmas Dinner table (or even at other occasions - they do not have to be confined to Christmas). We usually try to follow some sort of theme through the crackers, but as they are made by various different people, so you do not know what is going to be in your cracker, it can be difficult. They usually include some form of chocolate and a little gift (it is worth noting that I am, at 21, the youngest at this occasion - so we do not really require the Christmas jokes and silly little gifts that many families would want from their crackers). If you have children then it may be fun to get them to help make the crackers. We have also done it in the past so that everyone gets an ornament / decoration - which are then added to the Christmas tree (leaving open the idea of a Harry Potter theme - - or anything else of a similar nature - tailored to suit the family / people in question). Simon (who has just remembered that he needs to go and get the gift for his mothers Christmas Cracker!) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Dec 10 16:16:37 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 16:16:37 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas (back on one of the favourite discussions of the group - food) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6544 Neil wrote: "mice pies" I wrote: "Mice pies? Are they any good?" shahara answered the question with: "He wouldn't know...he's vegetarian!" Neil answered my question with: "They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled cat." A vegetarian eating mice. An interesting idea! Sounds like one of the most useful things to do with a cat! Neil wrote: "Simon, you reminded me of something: chestnuts! Brussels sprouts go very well with roasted chestnuts. I also like sprouts tossed with butter, a bit of mild mustard and poppy seeds." I meant chestnuts earlier, but just could not remember what they were called. In fact your cooking suggestion looks horribly familiar. I guess it is the similar to the one I used last year. Though I think I used sesame seeds instead of the poppy seeds. A similar dish can also be cooked using cabbage and tastes ok. I just am totally against the idea of Brussels sprouts! Neil wrote: "Simon's right about the Xmas afternoon disappearing. I prefer to eat dinner in the evening, so it's good to have a late breakfast of wholemeal toast, scrambled eggs and mushrooms and champagne, orange juice or a bit of both (Buck's Fizz) and then eat again around 6pm (filling in the gap with chocolates)." I rarely eat breakfast (I do not really like anything apart from a full English and do not think I should eat that regularly or can I afford to spend the money or time doing so), so much prefer the large cooked lunch idea - though Christmas is one of the few times that I get to eat a very big meal at that time of day. Simon (salivating at the thought and then remembering it is probably going to be a trip to Burger King for dinner - a bit of a let down!) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 17:52:28 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:52:28 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis In-Reply-To: <91098f+moj6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <910fss+ohcg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6545 As long as the good guys win in the end, I'll muddle through, but I'm sure I'll find myself in tears more than once, and might have to hide the book for a couple of days before I can finish if something really bad happens. As for the Lewis connection, I know there are tons of paralells, and even little incidentals like maybe Cedric was named Diggory after Lewis' Digory, but I stumbled across a funny one the other day. I was flipping through one of the Narnia books that I bought for my cousin's son for Christmas, and saw Lucy and Edmund and the gang's last name - Pevensie, and my Harry-ridden mind read Pensieve instead. I'm not into anagrams, but I thought it was funny. I guess I'm easily amused. kimberly --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Christine " wrote: > Just a thought that's been bugging me.... > > The CS Lewis connection has been mentioned before, and I was just > thinking that if HP is going to follow along the same lines and > become increasingly sinister - then I'm not sure I'll have the guts > to read the last to books (UGH!) > > Or maybe it's just me:-) From joym999 at aol.com Sun Dec 10 17:58:27 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:58:27 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas (OT) In-Reply-To: <009601c06286$06d78060$d63670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <910g83+hudf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6546 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > In the afternoon you might try mulled wine (red wine, spiced with cloves and > other things) and mice pies Mice pies? I hope you at least cut their little heads off first. I knew there was a reason why English cooking has such a bad reputation. And I have been admonished in this group for criticising English cooking. Harumph. > Later on, it's traditional to > have a blazing row with a relative about something trivial and get > completely rat-arsed. Do you become rat-arsed as the result of eating too many mice pies? --Joywitch From karob_7 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 17:59:38 2000 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (Karin ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:59:38 -0000 Subject: Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin In-Reply-To: <90vmoq+107it@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <910gaa+k7ck@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6547 > > Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin > > what a very Gryffindor song. Well, yes....it is, isn't it? I suppose I could dedicate it to Ron. He might like it. > Ferrets are not rodents. Ferrets are mustelids Oh dear. You are right....I'm not quite sure what I was thinking. Perhaps I wasn't at all. I suppose I could change it to "Wouldn't you like to be a mustelid?" Hmmm.... > Americans have ferrets as cuddly pets -- they look UTTERLY cute -- They are adorable, though I personally wouldn't really want one as a pet. Anyway, thanks for the correction and the info.... Karin From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Dec 10 17:57:58 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:57:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6548 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Ward" > > Neil wrote: "mice pies" > > > > Mice pies? Are they any good? > > They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled > cat. > > *** Randy asked if that was anything like Rat-on-a-stick? carole From chrisworm at hotmail.com Sun Dec 10 18:55:37 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:55:37 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis In-Reply-To: <910fss+ohcg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <910jj9+9718@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6549 Thanks Kimberly, Especially for the Diggory/Digory thing. I don't know if you have read the previous message, put I'm trying to write this project for school (teachers college) where I analyse the intertextuality (don't really know if this is a word?!?:-) of SS. I've been thinking and looking all over the place, but I still have some pieces of the puzzle missing. Thanks a buch:-) Christine --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > As long as the good guys win in the end, I'll muddle through, but I'm > sure I'll find myself in tears more than once, and might have to hide > the book for a couple of days before I can finish if something really > bad happens. > > As for the Lewis connection, I know there are tons of paralells, and > even little incidentals like maybe Cedric was named Diggory after > Lewis' Digory, but I stumbled across a funny one the other day. I was > flipping through one of the Narnia books that I bought for my cousin's > son for Christmas, and saw Lucy and Edmund and the gang's last name - > Pevensie, and my Harry-ridden mind read Pensieve instead. > I'm not into anagrams, but I thought it was funny. > I guess I'm easily amused. > kimberly > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Christine " wrote: > > Just a thought that's been bugging me.... > > > > The CS Lewis connection has been mentioned before, and I was just > > thinking that if HP is going to follow along the same lines and > > become increasingly sinister - then I'm not sure I'll have the guts > > to read the last to books (UGH!) > > > > Or maybe it's just me:-) From john at walton.to Sun Dec 10 18:58:13 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:58:13 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (OT) In-Reply-To: <009601c06286$06d78060$d63670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6550 Neil Ward at neilward at dircon.co.uk wrote: > Um, lamb isn't a Christmas thing. Also, Yorkshire Pudding is always served > with beef and any variance from that rule is punishable by death. You > should serve mint sauce with lamb. I beg to differ. My Yorkshire granny vociferously states that Yorkshire Puddings (note the plural :D) are served with everything, since the whole point is to smother them in gravy and pretend they're meat so nobody will notice that the turkey is about the size of a rat. >> Neil wrote: "mice pies" >> Simon replied: >> Mice pies? Are they any good? > Neil replied: > They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled > cat. HEATHEN! Mice pies should always be eaten raw with no adulterations like cat's blood! ::fumes:: Someone (Neil/Simon) said: >> Later on, it's traditional to >> have a blazing row with a relative about something trivial and get >> completely rat-arsed. > Joywitch asked: > Do you become rat-arsed as the result of eating too many mice pies? No. You become rat-arsed as a result of eating too many Tournedos de Rato. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#142 If I have children and subsequently grandchildren, I will keep my three-year-old granddaughter near me at all times. When the hero enters to kill me, I will ask him to first explain to her why it is necessary to kill her beloved grandpa. When the hero launches into an explanation of morality way over her head, that will be her cue to pull the lever and send him into the pit of crocodiles. After all, small children like crocodiles almost as much as Evil Overlords and it's important to spend quality time with the grandkids. ======================================== From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 19:09:11 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:09:11 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6551 > > > Neil wrote: "mice pies" > > > > > > Mice pies? Are they any good? > > > > They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled > > cat. > > > > *** > > > Randy asked if that was anything like Rat-on-a-stick? He should know that they are not in the same league. For those of you who are interested I have a book out shortly, entitled: "Rodent Recipes from Around The World: From Gerbil Gumbo to Dormouse Dansak," and I'm working on a follow-up, which should be ready for release by Easter 2001: "One Hundred Mustelid Party Snacks." Now, enough about those mice pies!!!! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Dec 10 19:14:20 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:14:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <020d01c062dd$67013240$76af20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6552 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Ward" > > Randy asked if that was anything like Rat-on-a-stick? > > He should know that they are not in the same league. For those of you who > are interested I have a book out shortly, entitled: "Rodent Recipes from > Around The World: From Gerbil Gumbo to Dormouse Dansak," and I'm working on > a follow-up, which should be ready for release by Easter 2001: "One Hundred > Mustelid Party Snacks." > > Now, enough about those mice pies!!!! > > Neil ROTFL!!!!! Can we get this through Amazon.com, and will you be donating any of the proceeds to charity...hmmmm Rodent Relief...hmmm no you wouldn't be cooking them if it was a pro-rodent organization....Rid the Realm of Rodents .... carole From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 20:41:34 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:41:34 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas, food, and at least a bit ON topic. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <910ppu+b04f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6553 Neil wrote: "Mice Pies" I know, I know, enough already, but Mice pies? Maybe I'll just stick to mince pies. Anyway thanks Simon, Neil and everyone else for giving me some great ideas. I was thinking that maybe I couldn't find a Goose around here anyway. Turkey is a bit of a rehash of Thanksgiving but we tend to eat it anyway. There's also ham, and stuffing (Amanda's stuffing sounds really good). Of course there's also about 6-7 extra pounds come January that you finally shed by the next November... > Dessert: Christmas pudding - with brandy done carefully, so we do not burn > down half the house or my eyebrows. I object to loosing eyebrows to > something I will not even eat (and I think just object to loosing them full > stop). While I don't itend to lose my eyebrows I was planning on making one of these. I mean is it really Christmas without it? > Another Course: Coffee (tea for those of us who do not drink coffee), brandy > and chocolate mints and maybe mince pies. > > Neil wrote: "You could serve cold roast beef for tea as you will be picking > from the turkey carcas for at least a week and it's nice to have some > variety in your flesh-eating (ahem, I'm a vegetarian)." OT story: I have a friend who is a vegetarian. We were in Italy and at a paticuarly bad resturant. While everyone else ate, chips and cold chicken her plate contained only a large slab of cheese. This occured after I'd lost a lot of sleep which may be why I found it incredibly funny. >... turkish delight and chocolates by the > sackload whilst viewing Christmas 'specials' on the telly. Beg me to ask what is Turkish delight exactly? I remember having it at a school party years ago. Something like jello but without water? NOW to the ON topic portion of this message... During Harry's first year at Hogwarts his Christmas dinner consists of- 'A hundred fat roast trukeys; mountains of roast boiled potatoes; platters of chipolata; tureens of buttered, silver boats of think rich gravy and cranberry sauce." Not to mention Wizard Crackers, which give off some gifts more interesting than those of regualar crackers. Fred gets several live white mice, a rear admiral's hat, and Dumbledore swaps a wizards hat for a flowered bonnet. Harry recieves- "A pack of nonexplodable, luminous ballons, a Grow-You-Own-Warts kit, and his own new wizard chess set." They also get Flaming Christmas puddings and Percy almost breaks a tooth on a silver sickle in his slice. Then for dinner they get Turkey Sandwiches, crrumpets, trifle, and Christmas Cake. Harry's second Christmas at Hogwarts isn't described in as much detail but it mentions it was quite good. His third Christmas finds almost no one staying at school. It mentions the crackers again and Dumbledore and Snape pull, to find a witch's hat with a stuffed Vulture. It also mentions roast potatoes and turkey. In the Fourth year they have Turkey, and pudding, for luncheon and it mentions that the Christmas Crackers are made by "Cribbage". At the Yule ball there was a menu and so Harry chose Pork Chops but there must have been a wide selection. Now if I don't burn my Creme Brulee I'll be ok! Does anyone else get the feeling that whenever we have a food discussion I'm the one to start it? Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 10 21:09:13 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 16:09:13 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6554 In a message dated 12/10/00 3:50:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, neilward at dircon.co.uk writes: > Later on, it's traditional to > have a blazing row with a relative about something trivial and get > completely rat-arsed. > And I thought this was a purely American tradition! We colonists owe so much to the motherland! :) -Mo ************************************************************** Clark: All our holidays were always such a mess. Dad: Oh yeah. Clark: How'd you get through it? Dad: I had a lot of help from Jack Daniels. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 10 21:09:38 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:09:38 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: A very British Christmas, food, and at least a bit ON topic. References: <910ppu+b04f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000f01c062ed$8235a9a0$a0c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6555 I was writing eat mince pies instead the same moment I saw your replay! ROTFL catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Scott Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 10 december 2000 21:41 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: A very British Christmas, food, and at least a bit ON topic. Neil wrote: "Mice Pies" I know, I know, enough already, but Mice pies? Maybe I'll just stick to mince pies. Anyway thanks Simon, Neil and everyone else for giving me some great ideas. I was thinking that maybe I couldn't find a Goose around here anyway. Turkey is a bit of a rehash of Thanksgiving but we tend to eat it anyway. There's also ham, and stuffing (Amanda's stuffing sounds really good). Of course there's also about 6-7 extra pounds come January that you finally shed by the next November... > Dessert: Christmas pudding - with brandy done carefully, so we do not burn > down half the house or my eyebrows. I object to loosing eyebrows to > something I will not even eat (and I think just object to loosing them full > stop). While I don't itend to lose my eyebrows I was planning on making one of these. I mean is it really Christmas without it? > Another Course: Coffee (tea for those of us who do not drink coffee), brandy > and chocolate mints and maybe mince pies. > > Neil wrote: "You could serve cold roast beef for tea as you will be picking > from the turkey carcas for at least a week and it's nice to have some > variety in your flesh-eating (ahem, I'm a vegetarian)." OT story: I have a friend who is a vegetarian. We were in Italy and at a paticuarly bad resturant. While everyone else ate, chips and cold chicken her plate contained only a large slab of cheese. This occured after I'd lost a lot of sleep which may be why I found it incredibly funny. >... turkish delight and chocolates by the > sackload whilst viewing Christmas 'specials' on the telly. Beg me to ask what is Turkish delight exactly? I remember having it at a school party years ago. Something like jello but without water? NOW to the ON topic portion of this message... During Harry's first year at Hogwarts his Christmas dinner consists of- 'A hundred fat roast trukeys; mountains of roast boiled potatoes; platters of chipolata; tureens of buttered, silver boats of think rich gravy and cranberry sauce." Not to mention Wizard Crackers, which give off some gifts more interesting than those of regualar crackers. Fred gets several live white mice, a rear admiral's hat, and Dumbledore swaps a wizards hat for a flowered bonnet. Harry recieves- "A pack of nonexplodable, luminous ballons, a Grow-You-Own-Warts kit, and his own new wizard chess set." They also get Flaming Christmas puddings and Percy almost breaks a tooth on a silver sickle in his slice. Then for dinner they get Turkey Sandwiches, crrumpets, trifle, and Christmas Cake. Harry's second Christmas at Hogwarts isn't described in as much detail but it mentions it was quite good. His third Christmas finds almost no one staying at school. It mentions the crackers again and Dumbledore and Snape pull, to find a witch's hat with a stuffed Vulture. It also mentions roast potatoes and turkey. In the Fourth year they have Turkey, and pudding, for luncheon and it mentions that the Christmas Crackers are made by "Cribbage". At the Yule ball there was a menu and so Harry chose Pork Chops but there must have been a wide selection. Now if I don't burn my Creme Brulee I'll be ok! Does anyone else get the feeling that whenever we have a food discussion I'm the one to start it? Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 10 21:18:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:18:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> <020d01c062dd$67013240$76af20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A33F32E.7D68BB4F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6556 lrcjestes wrote: > ROTFL!!!!! Can we get this through Amazon.com, and will you be donating any > of the proceeds to charity...hmmmm Rodent Relief...hmmm no you wouldn't be > cooking them if it was a pro-rodent organization....Rid the Realm of Rodents I am *so* discouraged that nobody's posted recipes, such as are found in "Never Cry Wolf" by Farley Mowat, who actually did survive on mice for some months to prove the wolves did....didn't cut their heads off, either. My copy's in one of the many boxes of books in the garage right now, or I'd oblige. I remember one was Creamed Mouse. Mice Pies sounds so much more festive; how many are required? Four-and-twenty? Can I leave the tails sticking out of the crust, and arrange them attractively? They shouldn't scorch if I cover them with tinfoil until the last 15 minutes of baking, right? --Amanda From mzettl at freenet.de Sun Dec 10 21:19:04 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:19:04 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> <020d01c062dd$67013240$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <3A33F32E.7D68BB4F@texas.net> Message-ID: <00ad01c062ee$d3b58100$7c2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6557 Amanda wrote > I remember one > was Creamed Mouse. Mice Pies sounds so much more festive; how many are required? Do you mean somtehing like this : "Mice in Cream (Souris la crme) Skin, gut and wash some fat mice without removing their heads. Cover them in a pot with ethyl alcohol and marinate 2 hours. Cut a piece of salt pork or sowbelly into small dice and cook it slowly to extract the fat. Drain the mice, dredge them thoroughly in a mixture of flour, pepper, and salt, and fry slowly in the rendered fat for about 5 minutes. Add a cup of alcohol and 6 to 8 cloves, cover and simmer for 15 minutes. Prepare a cream sauce, transfer the sauted mice to it, and warm them in it for about 10 minutes before serving." Sounds really, ahem, delicious. Remembers me of a discussion I had about eating guinea pigs. Blergh. Dinah From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 10 21:31:21 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 16:31:21 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 22 - Prof. Binns Message-ID: <43.dbb9485.27655029@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6558 > Is he deliberately leaving out the interesting stuff?!?! I can't > > believe you bothered to ask this! I didn't know that a History > > teacher COULD be anything but tedious and excruciatingly dull!!! > > > > Scott > I have decided not to become offended about your crack at my profession. And I won't retaliate (unless you tell me you are a lawyer!) I suspect that either JKR 1) had a bad experience with a super boring history teacher (I think we all probably have-I know I did) or 2) she just succumbed to the stereotype (i.e. Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's Day Off..."something d-o-o economics, voodoo economics." zzzzz) As for Binns......remember she said that we will hear more about why people become ghosts. Perhaps he has a VERY interesting life story which is why he chooses to lead a very boring afterlife. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sun Dec 10 21:35:47 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:35:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> <020d01c062dd$67013240$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <3A33F32E.7D68BB4F@texas.net> <00ad01c062ee$d3b58100$7c2b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A33F732.F50D26A7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6559 Dinah wrote: > Do you mean somtehing like this : > > "Mice in Cream (Souris la crme) The very one. > Sounds really, ahem, delicious. Remembers me of a discussion I had about > eating guinea pigs. Blergh. You don't think guinea pigs were domesticated because they were cuddly, did you? They're a very easily raisable, omnivorous source of protein where such is often scarce. --Amanda From mzettl at freenet.de Sun Dec 10 21:35:54 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:35:54 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> <020d01c062dd$67013240$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <3A33F32E.7D68BB4F@texas.net> <00ad01c062ee$d3b58100$7c2b07d5@oemcomputer> <3A33F732.F50D26A7@texas.net> Message-ID: <00c101c062f1$2dc1f460$7c2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6560 Amanda wrote: > You don't think guinea pigs were domesticated because they were cuddly, did you? > They're a very easily raisable, omnivorous source of protein where such is often > scarce. Actually I didn't think about *why* they were domesticated at all. But you're right. It's just that nowadays when the supermarket is just around the corner one doesn't really like to think about eating guinea pigs. I don't want to hear what my parents would say about guinea pigs as Christmas Dinner . Dinah From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 10 21:43:51 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:43:51 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) References: <001401c062a1$0d08a160$a73570c2@c5s910j> <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <000801c062dc$ae705b20$8f3570c2@c5s910j> <020d01c062dd$67013240$76af20cc@oemcomputer> <3A33F32E.7D68BB4F@texas.net> <00ad01c062ee$d3b58100$7c2b07d5@oemcomputer> <3A33F732.F50D26A7@texas.net> Message-ID: <001a01c062f2$497fe4e0$a0c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6561 Ouch! I thought it was the Chinese that ate any animal available! catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Amanda Lewanski Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 10 december 2000 22:35 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) Dinah wrote: > Do you mean somtehing like this : > > "Mice in Cream (Souris ? la cr?me) The very one. > Sounds really, ahem, delicious. Remembers me of a discussion I had about > eating guinea pigs. Blergh. You don't think guinea pigs were domesticated because they were cuddly, did you? They're a very easily raisable, omnivorous source of protein where such is often scarce. --Amanda eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 10 22:12:58 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:12:58 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas (OT) In-Reply-To: <910g83+hudf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <910v5a+hc68@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6562 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > Do you become rat-arsed as the result of eating too many mice pies? LOL. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 10 22:44:11 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:44:11 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - Prof. Binns In-Reply-To: <43.dbb9485.27655029@aol.com> Message-ID: <9110vr+dojk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6563 > > Is he deliberately leaving out the interesting stuff?!?! I can't > > > believe you bothered to ask this! I didn't know that a History > > > teacher COULD be anything but tedious and excruciatingly dull!!! > > > > > > Scott > > > > I have decided not to become offended about your crack at my profession. And > I won't retaliate (unless you tell me you are a lawyer!) I'm not a lawyer, I'm a High School student. One that will be very glad when his term ends a week from tomorrow. Why will I be glad you ask? Because I happen to actually have Professor Binns first period. Well not really him but I think you get my drift. It's like someone posted earliar, history itself is interesting, fascinating even. It's only the teacher that makes it seem boring. I meant this a joke and I hope I didn't offend anyone. (Except if you really are my history teacher. In which case I did mean to offend you and I'm sorry!) Scott From morine10 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 00:37:26 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (Maureen L) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:37:26 -0000 Subject: Chapter 22 - Prof. Binns In-Reply-To: <9110vr+dojk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9117k6+gqi8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6564 It's like someone > posted earliar, history itself is interesting, fascinating even. It's > only the teacher that makes it seem boring. > > I meant this a joke and I hope I didn't offend anyone. (Except if you > really are my history teacher. In which case I did mean to offend > you and I'm sorry!) > > Scott I know you didn't...I was just joking! -Mo Whose history class is anything but boring (I hope!) From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 00:38:44 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:38:44 -0600 Subject: British Food; Cloaks Message-ID: <3A342214.B0A6FFA0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6565 Hi -- Well, we have had an interesting day of discussions about .... rodents of all things! :--) I am no end amused by the fact that at least 2 of our British members have mentioned that Christmas dinner must consist of 2 types of potatoes (roast & mashed it seems). I've commented in the past that the Brits *do* like their potatoes! But, I'm in no position to poke too much fun. It turns out that potatoes have been something I've consistently craved throughout this pregnancy -- in fact, I've discovered that it *is* possible to serve potatoes with really just about anything. I think Bryce is about fed up with potatoes & may wish to never see another one for awhile once I give birth to this baby. Glad to see Neil injecting more of his trademark humor into our discussions! I am cooking a dinner for about 10 people next Sunday evening -- perhaps I'll go with a British theme now that the idea has been planted. Any of the Texans on the list care to point me to places to buy Christmas crackers other than Williams Sonoma (they seem expensive there!)? Hmm .... maybe I'll try that British store where I get golden syrup, imported Cadbury bars & all sorts of goodies. CLOAKS -- I wanted to thank Ellen for her insight earlier this week about cloaks & lining costs & such. Obviously, I've betrayed that I know *nothing* about sewing since I assumed that lining a cloak really ought not to be any big deal. Thanks for clearing that up. I agree that the prices are high for the bodyhangings.com cloaks. They're especially high considering I'd only wear it a few days each year at best .... oh well. The boredhousewife.com site that you gave us may be a nice alternative -- thanks! Incidentally, we are actually enjoying fall color here in Houston this year! Some years we get brief fall color in January (followed quickly by dead trees, followed quickly by spring buds in mid Feb); other years we don't have fall colors at all. This year, we've got gorgeous trees of vibrant colors all over the city since late November - truly incredible. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 00:43:26 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:43:26 -0600 Subject: Merchandise References: Message-ID: <3A34232E.5934643F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6566 Hi -- hedwigthecat at aol.com wrote: > I work for Warner Bros. So it will be very easy for me to double check > the info. I remember it being mentioned *months* ago about the strict > approval process but paid no attention until I actually read the books > and fell in love with the characters and their adventures. > > ~Hedwig~ Very cool! Please do give us any inside scoop on the WB merchandise! I'm especially curious to know if the artist who did the calendar art has read the books. If so, I'd *love* to know if he/she hates Harry & that's why the artist created such unflattering (IMO) images of him. I actually don't know though if the calendar was done by a WB artist or not. I'm pretty happy with the representations on the figurines, bookends, etc. -- although I still dispute Hermione's hair color (and definitely her eyes aren't blue in the books but that's a minor nitpicky point I suppose). Anyway ... we'd love to hear more about the process if you can find out anything more. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 00:51:46 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:51:46 -0000 Subject: The humble spud Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6567 Penny wrote: "I am no end amused by the fact that at least 2 of our British members have mentioned that Christmas dinner must consist of 2 types of potatoes (roast & mashed it seems). I've commented in the past that the Brits *do* like their potatoes! But, I'm in no position to poke too much fun. It turns out that potatoes have been something I've consistently craved throughout this pregnancy -- in fact, I've discovered that it *is* possible to serve potatoes with really just about anything. I think Bryce is about fed up with potatoes & may wish to never see another one for awhile once I give birth to this baby." Not to mention leftover turkey with chips on Boxing Day! The idea of Christmas Lunch is to have as many different foods together can the combination of potatoes works well. Do I ask whether the craving is for raw potatoes, or for them in some kind of cooked form? Penny wrote: "Glad to see Neil injecting more of his trademark humor into our discussions!" And it all started from a mistype! Scott wrote: "Of course there's also about 6-7 extra pounds come January that you finally shed by the next November..." According to some research I hear you never manage to get rid of all the pounds added over Christmas due to over indulgence. Hence why you tend to get heavier as you get older. How true this I do not know! Simon From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 00:50:41 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:50:41 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin References: <90ufck+9rop@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3424E1.2A803881@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6568 Hi -- Karin -- I *loved* your song about Draco, the Ferret-Faced Slytherin (even if a ferret isn't technically a rodent!)!!!! Thanks -- Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 00:54:40 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:54:40 -0600 Subject: New issue of Entertainment Weekly reviews HPProducts References: <3A32E297.C86D5D60@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A3425D0.80B1AE12@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6569 Hi -- heidi wrote: > 3. Becham's Sourcebooks; Exploring Harry Potter - they HATED this (and > rightly so) and call it "pretentious", saying the "deconstructions are > dim witted" > Penny, do you want to write a letter to the editor as Listmom of this > mailing list, saying that we, as a list, agree with them, because > there's nothing in the book which we haven't already discussed here, > in more detail and (without sounding egomaniacal) with TONS more > insight - they gave it 1 Wizard Hat Yes, I'll be happy to do that! Send me the address where it should be sent in case I forget to go buy a copy of EW this week -- Is the Beacham book still circulating btw? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 00:58:25 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:58:25 -0600 Subject: Hermione: Jewish? References: <90uqas+rufl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3426B1.4D72DAC4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6570 Hi -- Scott wrote: > Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would > have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. > explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may > have overlooked??? The only thing I can think of is that she does exchange Christmas gifts with Harry & Ron each year and seems to participate in the Christmas festivities (she wishes them a Merry Christmas in CoS as I recall). This doesn't necessarily mean she isn't Jewish -- but .... just a random thought. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 01:11:02 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:11:02 -0600 Subject: long Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task References: <90vkvu+v9ls@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3429A6.BD5960CB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6571 Hi -- Rita Winston wrote: > Something I didn't really notice the first time I read GoF: girls > asking boys to the ball was not standard Muggle practise in my day. > Even if it has become standard Muggle practise now, it meshes oddly > with the wizarding world's many old-fashioned features. While I would never have considered asking a boy to the *prom* or some other truly formal event in high school, it would not have been considered odd for girls to ask boys out on ordinary dates. I seem to recall there being even less stigma attached to females asking out males by the time I reached college age. > By shouting across the room to her. This makes it obvious that he is > not afraid that anyone would hear her reject him. Which shows that he > is confident either of all Gryffindors' esteem of him, or that AngieJ > will accept. I believe that he is confident that Angie will accept, > that in fact both of them already knew that they would go to the ball > together, because they're going steady (do modern people still have > the stages of relationships, from 'going together' to 'going steady' > to 'engaged to get engaged' to 'engaged to be married'?) and that is > pretty much what going steady *means*: an agreement that if there is > a dating type event, the two go to it together or not at all (also, > no flirting with other people). I suppose that Fred put on this > little act, instead of telling Ron "I don't have to ASK her, we're > going steady", to have some fun with Ron not having noticed the > romance going on. I agree that my feeling was that Angelina & Fred already had an understanding of some sort. I don't think her appraisal of him was whether she wanted to go with him or not, but more of an amused, "Well, you waited long enough before formally asking me you git!" > We don't hear anything about George's date or lack of date. I like to > imagine that he's going with Katie Bell, but some people like to > imagine that he's gay. I just thought it a bit odd that there wasn't even a one-line mention of "George and his date ____." Fred & Angelina danced "exuberantly," but as far as we know, George may not have attended at all. > 1) Cho really would have preferred to go with Harry and is selfishly > regretful that she already agreed to go with someone else. > > 2) Cho is regretful only that she hurt Harry's feelings, something > which she (being a very nice person: other examples are, she picks up > his quill when everyone else outside Gryffindor is heckling him, and > she doesn't wear a POTTER STINKS button) doesn't like doing. I subscribe to (2) -- I think she was genuinely sorry to turn him down because she could see how hard it had been for him to ask her. But, I think (like Rita) that Cho & Cedric had been seeing one another before the Yule Ball. If she were truly regretting going with Cedric & wishing she'd been free to accept Harry's invite, I think it would be much less likely she'd have been going steady with Cedric after the Ball (and she clearly was). > At some point, some other boy asks how Harry and Ron (implication: > two graceless lunks) managed to get the two prettiest girls in their > year. Which led someone on the list to ask why the two prettiest > girls in their years didn't have dates yet. I imagine that Parvati, > at least, had turned down other offers because she was counting on > going with Harry and opening the ball. She's lived in Gryffindor > Tower and taken classes with Harry for 3.5 years, and if that isn't > enough for her to know him well enough to know that he'll leave > getting a date until the last, desperate minute, she may also > be talking more with her roommate Hermione than we readers guess. Or > she might know it from Divination . I don't know why Parvarti would necessarily want to go with Harry or have counted on it. They aren't portrayed as particularly good friends. Since Parvarti doesn't know that Hermione already had a date (she suggests Hermione as a date for Ron before coming up with Padma as a solution), I doubt she had discussions with Hermione about whether Harry had a date or would wait till the last second to try & get one. In other words, her lack of knowledge about Hermione's own situation leads me to believe neither girl is doing much confiding in the other one. And in my universe (to borrow one of Rita's phrases), Hermione would have been reluctant to discuss Harry's potential love life with Parvarti since Hermione has secret romantic feelings for Harry. I also wonder about the notion that Parvarti & Padma not already having dates at that point ... if they are indeed the best-looking 4th year girls. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 01:18:02 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:18:02 -0600 Subject: The humble spud (OT) References: Message-ID: <3A342B4A.51229DA0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6572 Hi -- Simon wrote: > Do I ask whether the craving is for raw potatoes, or for them in some > kind of cooked form? Raw???!! No ... the craving has not turned that odd. I'll eat them in any cooked form though. I was delighted at a holiday buffet Friday night that the hostess did have 3 different kinds of potatoes -- mashed, scalloped & a plantain chip of sorts. Bryce found it a bit embarassing that I piled my plate with all 3 types. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From hedwigthecat at aol.com Mon Dec 11 01:59:10 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:59:10 EST Subject: NON-partisan election message/was butter on popcorn Message-ID: <81.4107789.27658eee@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6573 In a message dated 12/9/2000 11:43:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, Schlobin at aol.com writes: << As the hours grew later we could switch from popcorn, junior mints and coke to bread, cheese and a good merlot.? >> LOL! LOL! I've been at the booze for a while! Just pick someone already, I'm of the mind to no longer care! :) << May the Force be with us. >> I'm not sure the Force could even help us! And to attempt to keep this post on topic...elect Harry for President. Couldn't be any worse than the two muggles vying for the spot! ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Mon Dec 11 02:06:31 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:06:31 EST Subject: British HP Novels Message-ID: <9f.e4f3e8a.276590a7@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6574 Does anyone have any good sites on the web that would be relatively inexpensive to purchase the British versions of the HP novels? I'm curious to see how differently they read. Of course, the title of the first book is completely different, so that will be one major change. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! ~Hedwig~ From morine10 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 02:18:37 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:18:37 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: long Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task Message-ID: <42.dcf5684.2765937d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6575 In a message dated 12/10/00 8:18:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: > I also wonder about the notion that Parvarti & Padma not already having > dates at that point ... if they are indeed the best-looking 4th year > girls. > > Penny > I got a male opinion on this one. My dad and my husband both said that that the boys probably don't ask out the girls they feel are the prettiest because they find them intimidating. Basically there is the "why would she go for me?" mentality. The potential humiliation if she says "no" is too great so they don't take the chance. That and perhaps the boys feel that because P&P are the prettiest they were snapped up right away. Therefore no one bothers to ask them. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 02:10:41 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:10:41 -0600 Subject: British HP Novels References: <9f.e4f3e8a.276590a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A3437A1.3703EE85@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6576 Hi -- hedwigthecat at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have any good sites on the web that would be relatively > inexpensive to purchase the British versions of the HP novels? I'm > curious to see how differently they read. www. amazon.co.uk (probably the best bet I would think) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 02:23:03 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 02:23:03 -0000 Subject: Hermione: Jewish? and American Changes In-Reply-To: <3A3426B1.4D72DAC4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <911dq7+6ivq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6577 Penny wrote: > > The only thing I can think of is that she does exchange Christmas gifts > with Harry & Ron each year and seems to participate in the Christmas > festivities (she wishes them a Merry Christmas in CoS as I recall). > This doesn't necessarily mean she isn't Jewish -- but .... just a random > thought. I guess so but, I think it is possible if not likely since Hermione is based on JKR ad she's not Jewish. Hermione is not a Jewish name either but a classical one. I'm not sure whether that makes a difference though. Also you mention that Hermione wishes them a Merry Christmas...is this a change for the American edition being that most British people say Happy Christmas? Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 02:45:50 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 02:45:50 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas In-Reply-To: <01c501c062d2$dc22db60$76af20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <911f4u+5m65@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6578 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "lrcjestes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neil Ward" > > > > Neil wrote: "mice pies" > > > > > > Mice pies? Are they any good? > > > > They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled > > cat. > > > > *** > > > Randy asked if that was anything like Rat-on-a-stick? > > carole Of course, if you want the full Monty (Python), there's rat-on-a- stick, rat fricasee with rat and rat; rat fricasee with rat and Spam; Spam fricasee with rat, Spam and rat; Spam, rat, Spam, rat and Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, rat, rat, rat, rat and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, rat, rat, rat, Spam and rat (not much rat in that one, and only a little Spam), and so on. From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 03:00:56 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:00:56 -0000 Subject: British HP Novels In-Reply-To: <3A3437A1.3703EE85@swbell.net> Message-ID: <911g18+50fk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6579 > hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > > > Does anyone have any good sites on the web that would be relatively > > inexpensive to purchase the British versions of the HP novels? I'm > > curious to see how differently they read. Where do you live? If you're pretty far north, the Canadian editions are pretty much identical to the UK ones, except for copyright-page stuff and "Printed in Canada" on the back cover; I got my paperback PS at a bricknmortar bookstore south of Montreal. I can't go up there to send them to people, though, b/c the holidays are Way Too Busy and my car needs repair. ~:( From eliasberg at ioc.net Mon Dec 11 03:03:49 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:03:49 -0000 Subject: British HP Novels In-Reply-To: <9f.e4f3e8a.276590a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <911g6l+s7de@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6580 I purchased mine from Amazon.co.uk. I got the deluxe ones first, but then I didn't want to spoil them so I got the regular hard covers. Dave From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 11 03:38:53 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:38:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] British Food; Cloaks References: <3A342214.B0A6FFA0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A344C4C.E2BF7B6E@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6581 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > It turns out that potatoes have been something I've consistently > craved throughout this pregnancy -- in fact, I've discovered that it > *is* possible to serve potatoes with really just about anything. I > think Bryce is about fed up with potatoes & may wish to never see > another one for awhile once I give birth to this baby. I developed some strange cravings during pregnancy, too. Beans, much to my surprise. I had hated them before I got pregnant. And the change in my preferences was permanent. I eat lots more beans now. CLOAKS -- I wanted to thank Ellen for her insight earlier this week > about cloaks & lining costs & such. Obviously, I've betrayed that I > know *nothing* about sewing since I assumed that lining a cloak really > ought not to be any big deal. Thanks for clearing that up. I talked with the company I'd bought my cloak from about lining, and the person said that after years for experimentation they decided that it was preferable not to line the cloaks--it didn't seem to serve much of a useful purpose and any lining they put it seemed to get ripped anyway. I have to agree. My coats always had ripped lining; there's no lining in my cloak and I don't miss it in the least. Peg From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Mon Dec 11 03:56:13 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:56:13 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione: Jewish? and American Changes References: <911dq7+6ivq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <019601c06326$4f92ed30$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6582 > Also you mention that Hermione wishes them a Merry Christmas...is > this a change for the American edition being that most British people > say Happy Christmas? That's interesting, here in Australia we say Merry Christmas, although my grandmother does say Happy. It tends to be the case here that the old-timers have more British traditions. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 11 03:57:55 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:57:55 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis In-Reply-To: <910jj9+9718@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <911jc3+57nk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6583 > > Especially for the Diggory/Digory thing. I don't know if you have > read the previous message, put I'm trying to write this project for > school (teachers college) where I analyse the intertextuality (don't > really know if this is a word?!?:-) of SS. I've been thinking and > looking all over the place, but I still have some pieces of the > puzzle missing. > > Thanks a buch:-) Could you tell us what you mean by intertextuality? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 11 04:01:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 04:01:04 -0000 Subject: A very British Christmas (back on one of the favourite discussions of the group - food) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <911ji0+cvg0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6584 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > Neil wrote: "mice pies" > I wrote: "Mice pies? Are they any good?" > shahara answered the question with: "He wouldn't know...he's vegetarian!" > Neil answered my question with: "They are delicious. I usually eat them > coated in the blood of a strangled cat." > > A vegetarian eating mice. An interesting idea! > Sounds like one of the most useful things to do with a cat! > meeeooowww...professor mcgonagall and I are not amused, nor are my cats the Kent State Memorial Cat; Guinivere; Jezebel; Watson; Piper; McGregor and Uhura. Nor is Mrs. Figgs.... From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 11 04:03:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 04:03:50 -0000 Subject: Chestnuts - OT Message-ID: <911jn6+k8q8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6585 I went to Chestnut Street elementary school, although by that time a plague had destroyed all the trees that used to line the street.... I love chestnut sauce with vanilla ice cream...everyone with chestnut recipes -- please send to me... Susan From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 04:50:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:50:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The humble spud References: Message-ID: <3A345D2E.83C968A4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6586 Simon wrote: > According to some research I hear you never manage to get rid of all the > pounds added over Christmas due to over indulgence. Hence why you tend to > get heavier as you get older. How true this I do not know! I do. Cherish your youthful slimness, and innocence, and eat like you'll have a young metabolism forever....and you, I might add, will never have to deal with the pounds that really *do* want to stay, those you add during pregnancy. --Amanda, carrying around a few souvenirs of her three From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 04:52:48 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:52:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione: Jewish? References: <90uqas+rufl@eGroups.com> <3A3426B1.4D72DAC4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A345DA0.7D38E92D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6587 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would > > have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. > > explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may > > have overlooked??? > > The only thing I can think of is that she does exchange Christmas gifts > with Harry & Ron each year and seems to participate in the Christmas > festivities (she wishes them a Merry Christmas in CoS as I recall). > This doesn't necessarily mean she isn't Jewish -- but .... just a random > thought. A question--how would her being Jewish really impact a story if she's not very observant? If it doesn't affect her lifestyle? Because I can't see from the books any such impact on what she does, so would it really make any difference? Just curious, Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 04:56:18 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:56:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: long Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task References: <90vkvu+v9ls@eGroups.com> <3A3429A6.BD5960CB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A345E72.932E2AA4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6588 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I also wonder about the notion that Parvarti & Padma not already having > dates at that point ... if they are indeed the best-looking 4th year > girls. Well, they may have fallen victim to the circumstance wherein nobody asks the good-looking girls, assuming they're taken. I have heard this lamented by good-looking women. I have never had this problem. Sigh. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 04:57:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:57:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The humble spud (OT) References: <3A342B4A.51229DA0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A345EB3.22C8E1B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6589 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > Do I ask whether the craving is for raw potatoes, or for them in some > > kind of cooked form? > > Raw???!! No ... the craving has not turned that odd. I'll eat them in > any cooked form though. I was delighted at a holiday buffet Friday > night that the hostess did have 3 different kinds of potatoes -- mashed, > scalloped & a plantain chip of sorts. Bryce found it a bit embarassing > that I piled my plate with all 3 types. I had to have Dr. Pepper. At least I didn't have to cook it first. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 05:04:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:04:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Cloaks References: <3A342214.B0A6FFA0@swbell.net> <3A344C4C.E2BF7B6E@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <3A34604F.695295F0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6590 Peg Kerr wrote: > I talked with the company I'd bought my cloak from about lining, and the > person said that after years for experimentation they decided that it was > preferable not to line the cloaks--it didn't seem to serve much of a useful > purpose and any lining they put it seemed to get ripped anyway. I have to > agree. My coats always had ripped lining; there's no lining in my cloak and > I don't miss it in the least. I appropriated a hooded cloak of my husband's, made of this wonderful water-defying wool stuff, but all my medieval dresses are lower on my neckline than the neck of the cloak, and the hems chafed. I got a seamstress friend to line it with this wonderful soft moonstone-color flannel, and it's never even offered to rip. Perhaps you're lining them with stuff that's too flimsy? --Amanda From endahwidiastuti at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 03:24:43 2000 From: endahwidiastuti at yahoo.com (Endah W) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:24:43 +0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Indonesia [was sucking them in...] In-Reply-To: <90pgjd+86db@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6591 Hello, I have an opinion, this e-Group is the best place to discuss all about HP. Very interesting.. =) The HP books (SS and CoS) are available in Bahasa Indonesia, but PoA isn't. We haven't recieved the 4th and the 5th books yet...maybe the distribution is late.. >=( best regards, endah -----Original Message----- From: Jim Flanagan [mailto:jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu] Sent: 08 Desember 2000 9:22 To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Indonesia [was sucking them in...] Welcome, endah -- I hope that you enjoy this e-Group. We have some very good discussions here that I hope you find interesting. I have a question about the HP books in Indonesia -- are they available in Bahasa Indonesia or only in English? This group has a very good collection of international book covers, and have recently added Indonesia, but I am not sure which language the books are written in. -Jim Flanagan > Hi, my name is Endah from Indonesia. > I'm a student in senior high school.. I like HP very much.. > after I read HP i just can't hardly wait the next...the next... the next new > HP book... > at least HP is the new HERO in my class. (sometimes WE read it in the > classroom).. hehehe.. > My teacher *must* read HP..!! > > endah eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 05:09:18 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:09:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chestnuts - OT References: <911jn6+k8q8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A34617E.A6BD9B4E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6592 Susan McGee wrote: > I love chestnut sauce with vanilla ice cream...everyone with chestnut > recipes -- please send to me... Is this sauce something you make, or something you buy..? If you make it, how, please? It sounds great. I also emailed you the chestnut stuffing recipe directly. --Amanda From SHENmagic at aol.com Mon Dec 11 05:10:39 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:10:39 EST Subject: Cloaks and Capes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6593 Following the thread of cloaks lined and unlined, here is an absolutely delicious site, which apparently is part of a web of " League of Renaissance Merchants": Dragonfly Design Studio http://DragonflyDesignStudio.com/ Alas, it 's mostly patterns for those who have time and dexterity.... Ayleyaell :::mostly in lurkdom these days::::: From joym999 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 05:52:42 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 05:52:42 -0000 Subject: Chestnuts - OT In-Reply-To: <911jn6+k8q8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <911q3a+jt3p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6594 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > I went to Chestnut Street elementary school, although by that > time a plague had destroyed all the trees that used to line > the street.... > > I love chestnut sauce with vanilla ice cream...everyone with chestnut > recipes -- please send to me... All this chestnut talk got me hungry, so I roasted the chestnuts left over from Thanksgiving tonight and they were yummy. When I was a kid, you could buy chestnuts from street venders (in New York City). I wonder if the NY venders still sell them. If so they are probably about $10 each; the chestnuts I bought for Thanksgiving were something like $8/pound. Anyone know why they are so expensive? I have never heard of a chestnut sauce that you put on ice cream, though. What is it? And now to relate this back to HP, um, er, I know....Are there any chestnut references in the HP books? I dont remember any. --Joywitch From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 11 05:49:46 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:49:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione: Jewish? References: <90uqas+rufl@eGroups.com> <3A3426B1.4D72DAC4@swbell.net> <3A345DA0.7D38E92D@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A346AFA.A063D79D@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6595 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > Scott wrote: > > > > > Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would > > > have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. > > > explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may > > > have overlooked??? > > > > The only thing I can think of is that she does exchange Christmas gifts > > with Harry & Ron each year and seems to participate in the Christmas > > festivities (she wishes them a Merry Christmas in CoS as I recall). > > This doesn't necessarily mean she isn't Jewish -- but .... just a random > > thought. > > A question--how would her being Jewish really impact a story if she's not > very observant? If it doesn't affect her lifestyle? Because I can't see from > the books any such impact on what she does, so would it really make any > difference? > Exactly - I get Xmas gifts for my Christan friends, and wish them Merry Christmas (since I live in the states and we don't do that "Happy Xmas" thing) and my best friend, who is catholic, usually gives me gifts during Xmas, even if Chanukah is weeks & weeks before (of course, this year, that's irrelevant because they're at teh same time) - and I love the lights and trees & decorations associated with Xmas, and if there had been a Yule Ball when I was in school, I probably would've (hoped to have) gone, and not cared what it was called. From joym999 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 06:05:34 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 06:05:34 -0000 Subject: Hermione: Jewish? In-Reply-To: <3A346AFA.A063D79D@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <911qre+b3i2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6596 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > > > Scott wrote: > > > > > > > Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction that would > > > > have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. > > > > explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may > > > > have overlooked??? > > > > > > The only thing I can think of is that she does exchange Christmas gifts > > > with Harry & Ron each year and seems to participate in the Christmas > > > festivities (she wishes them a Merry Christmas in CoS as I recall). > > > This doesn't necessarily mean she isn't Jewish -- but .... just a random > > > thought. > > > > A question--how would her being Jewish really impact a story if she's not > > very observant? If it doesn't affect her lifestyle? Because I can't see from > > the books any such impact on what she does, so would it really make any > > difference? > > > > Exactly - I get Xmas gifts for my Christan friends, and wish them Merry > Christmas (since I live in the states and we don't do that "Happy Xmas" thing) > and my best friend, who is catholic, usually gives me gifts during Xmas, even if > Chanukah is weeks & weeks before (of course, this year, that's irrelevant > because they're at teh same time) - and I love the lights and trees & > decorations associated with Xmas, and if there had been a Yule Ball when I was > in school, I probably would've (hoped to have) gone, and not cared what it was > called. Good point. It is hard to imagine how religion would fit into an HP story, especially as a vague cultural heritage of an obviously non- observant person. I think that most people in the US, no matter what their heritage or belief, celebrate Christmas largely as a cultural rather than religious holiday. My grandmother used to send cards to everyone she knew (even the butcher); she would send Hanukah cards to her Jewish friends and relatives and Christmas cards to everyone else. Of course Grandma celebrated anything at all -- even holidays like Groundhogs Day and Washingtons Birthday. Oh and names dont really matter. Theres nothing Jewish about my name (especially the witch part) but my ancestry is decidely Jewish. So, someone with a name like Hermione could certainly be Jewish. Not from a religious family, though. --Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 06:11:00 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 06:11:00 -0000 Subject: And speaking of Christmas Message-ID: <911r5k+oqqo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6597 I was just wondering how everyones Harry Potter fandom has contributed to their holiday celebrations. At least one person is making a British culinary feast, I assume because of the HP influence. I have to say that Harry Potter has influenced my holiday only in that I asked for the trivia game for Christmas (which I wont get because it is impossible to find -- my boyfriend told me he went to Toys Backwards R Us, which is advertising it, and it wasnt there, and while he was asking the clerk if they would get it in 2 other people came up to ask for it). Anybody doing HP parties, decorations, wrapping paper, cards,...anything interesting and obsessive? --Joywitch From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 11 06:33:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 06:33:59 -0000 Subject: Chestnuts - OT In-Reply-To: <3A34617E.A6BD9B4E@texas.net> Message-ID: <911sgn+7lb9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6598 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > I love chestnut sauce with vanilla ice cream...everyone with chestnut > > recipes -- please send to me... > > Is this sauce something you make, or something you buy..? If you make it, > how, please? It sounds great. I also emailed you the chestnut stuffing > recipe directly. > > --Amanda Marrons aux glacees....hmmmm...where DID I put that recipe..I'll look....You can make it or buy it... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 11 07:01:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 02:01:44 EST Subject: Chestnut recipe - OT Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6599 This is what I was thinking of..you can buy the chestnuts already candied or do it yourself... CANDIED CHESTNUT AND VANILLA ICE CREAM WITH HOT FUDGE SAUCE 1 quart vanilla ice cream, softened 1 cup (about 8) finely chopped marrons glaces (candied chestnuts, available at specialty foods shops) 1 1/3 cups heavy cream 1/3 cup firmly packed dark brown sugar 6 ounces fine-quality bittersweet chocolate, chopped fine 1 ounce unsweetened chocolate, chopped fine 2 tablespoons unsalted butter 2 tablespoons Cognac, or to taste In a bowl stir together well the ice cream and the marrons glaces and freeze the mixture, its surface covered with plastic wrap, for 2 to 3 hours, or until it is firm. In a heavy saucepan boil the cream, stirring occasionally, until it is reduced to about 1 cup, whisk in the brown sugar, and simmer the mixture, whisking, until the sugar is dissolved. Remove the pan from the heat, whisk in the chocolates, whisking the mixture until it is smooth, and whisk in the butter and the Cognac. Serve the sauce warm over the ice cream. Serves 4 to 6. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From machenback at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 07:10:00 2000 From: machenback at hotmail.com (machenback at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:10:00 -0000 Subject: Hermione: Jewish? and American Changes In-Reply-To: <019601c06326$4f92ed30$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <911uk8+omj5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6600 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > Also you mention that Hermione wishes them a Merry Christmas...is > > this a change for the American edition being that most British people > > say Happy Christmas? > > That's interesting, here in Australia we say Merry Christmas, although my > grandmother does say Happy. It tends to be the case here that the old-timers > have more British traditions. I'm British, I say "Merry Christmas" and so does just about everyone I know. It's news to me that it's supposed to be American. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 11 07:10:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 02:10:07 EST Subject: chestnut blight -- very, very off topic Message-ID: <44.9a3be49.2765d7cf@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6601 There was in fact a chestnut blight, which is why they used to be cheap and sold on the street, and now are very expensive..... Chestnut name for any species of the genus Castanea, deciduous trees of the family Fagaceae (beech or oak family) widely distributed in the Northern Hemisphere. They are characterized by thin-shelled, sweet, edible nuts borne in a bristly bur. The common American chestnut, C. dentata, is native E of the Mississippi but is now nearly extinct because of the chestnut blight, a disease from Asia caused by the fungus Crypthonectria parasitica. The American chestnut was an important source of timber. Efforts are being made to breed a type of American chestnut resistant to the disease, by crossing it with the blight-resistant Chinese and Japanese chestnuts, in order to replace the old chestnut forests. The dead and fallen logs were long the the leading domestic source of tannin. Chestnut wood is porous, but it is very durable in soil and has been popular for fence posts, railway ties, and beams. Edible chestnuts are now mostly imported from Italy, where the Eurasian species (C. sativa) has not been destroyed. The chinquapin belongs to the same genus. Chestnuts are classified in the division Magnoliophyta, class Magnoliopsida, order Fagales, family Fagaceae. ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Mon Dec 11 07:17:19 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:17:19 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione: Jewish? and American Changes References: <911uk8+omj5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005b01c06342$78523a20$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6602 > > That's interesting, here in Australia we say Merry Christmas, > > although my grandmother does say Happy. It tends to be the > > case here that the old-timers have more British traditions. > > I'm British, I say "Merry Christmas" and so does just about everyone > I know. It's news to me that it's supposed to be American. Perhaps this is another of the American misconceptions about the English :-) Simon. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Dec 11 08:01:14 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:01:14 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merry Christmas...(OT-ish) References: <911dq7+6ivq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008a01c06348$9e83b240$f93770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6603 Scott said: > Also you mention that Hermione wishes them a Merry Christmas...is > this a change for the American edition being that most British people > say Happy Christmas? As far as I'm aware, most British people would say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year" (...or "Bah, Humbug!"). In PS, Ron Weasley does greet Harry with "Happy Christmas," but "Merry Christmas" is used elsewhere. That fits with my observation that "Happy" is a less popular variant. Perhaps the people who eat Yorkshire Pudding with lamb say "Happy Christmas"? Neil, picking hamster bones out of his teeth... _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 08:19:48 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:19:48 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis In-Reply-To: <911jc3+57nk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9122n4+f9pt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6604 > > Could you tell us what you mean by intertextuality? > > Susan Sorry - I'm not even sure that it's a word in English - it is in Danish though! There are a lot of references to "other texts" as well as historical and mythological characters. The other texts are for example "The Odyssey", "The Magician's Nephew", "Manfield Park" and so on, but could also be history-books and "stuff like that". It would be nice if some of you guys had more! (Thanks in advance) Christine From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 08:27:14 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:27:14 -0000 Subject: And speaking of Christmas In-Reply-To: <911r5k+oqqo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <912352+2kd9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6605 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > I was just wondering how everyones Harry Potter fandom has > contributed to their holiday celebrations. At least one person is > making a British culinary feast, I assume because of the HP > influence. I have to say that Harry Potter has influenced my holiday > only in that I asked for the trivia game for Christmas (which I wont > get because it is impossible to find -- my boyfriend told me he went > to Toys Backwards R Us, which is advertising it, and it wasnt there, > and while he was asking the clerk if they would get it in 2 other > people came up to ask for it). > > Anybody doing HP parties, decorations, wrapping paper, > cards,...anything interesting and obsessive? > > --Joywitch Nothing really obsessive, although I have bought the first book in Danish for my stepson. (Had to convince his mom that I HAD to read it for him - she wanted to get it herself!) I am sooo looking forward to hear what he says! Christine From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 11 08:25:45 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:25:45 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) Message-ID: <01C063AB.B04BF7E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6606 Hell no! it's only wealth and the availability of land that allows us to move up the food chain to bigger animals storm -----Original Message----- From: Sara Ludwig [SMTP:sara.ludwig at telia.com] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:44 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) Ouch! I thought it was the Chinese that ate any animal available! catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fran: Amanda Lewanski Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 10 december 2000 22:35 Amne: Re: [HPforGrownups] A very British Christmas (er, now about rodents) Dinah wrote: > Do you mean somtehing like this : > > "Mice in Cream (Souris a la creme) The very one. > Sounds really, ahem, delicious. Remembers me of a discussion I had about > eating guinea pigs. Blergh. You don't think guinea pigs were domesticated because they were cuddly, did you? They're a very easily raisable, omnivorous source of protein where such is often scarce. --Amanda eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 11 08:44:25 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:44:25 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione: Jewish? Message-ID: <01C063AB.B567A580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6607 "A question--how would her being Jewish really impact a story if she's not very observant? If it doesn't affect her lifestyle? Because I can't see from the books any such impact on what she does, so would it really make any difference? Just curious, Amanda" Maybe its more like the gay/lesbian thing. At this stage in the story it hasn't made a lot of difference - but it might be a point in which people can read themselves into the story. Loved the mice piece discussion. ROFL, hallo to Simon, fellow Aust (not at Oxford Simon). Isn't it warm? (that should make all you northern hemisphere people good and jealous!) storm From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 11 09:00:52 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:00:52 -0000 Subject: Merry Christmas...(OT-ish) In-Reply-To: <008a01c06348$9e83b240$f93770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <912544+gsbn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6608 Neil wrote > As far as I'm aware, most British people would say "Merry Christmas" and > "Happy New Year" (...or "Bah, Humbug Yeah - it's the Christmas/New Year combination that's the killer. On Christmas Day my family would usually say 'Happy Christmas' to each other and everyone else. BUT my late father was a church choir master during my youth (40 years ago). When the choir went out carol singing round the local hospital, residential care homes etc. it was Dad who had to do all the speaking on behalf of the choir, including the Merry/Happy Christmas bit - usually many, many times during the course of an evening. For a few years Dad used to get really fed up because he was forever starting with "We wish you all the Happiest of Christmases" and then he was stuck with either having to repeat Happy for the New Year or saying Merry New Year - which really doesn't sound right. So one year he made a conscious decision not to say Happy or Merry but to wish everyone "Compliments of the Season". Later that phrase became the absolutely only one appropriate to a multicultural society and the many different faiths/societies holding traditional holidays at this time of year. However, it upset my mum because it's rather too big to write in icing on the top of a cake! Pam From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 09:10:51 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:10:51 -0000 Subject: Merry Christmas...(OT-ish) In-Reply-To: <912544+gsbn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9125mr+3qvs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6609 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Pam Scruton" wrote: > Neil wrote > > > As far as I'm aware, most British people would say "Merry > Christmas" and > > "Happy New Year" (...or "Bah, Humbug > > Yeah - it's the Christmas/New Year combination that's the killer. On > Christmas Day my family would usually say 'Happy Christmas' to each > other and everyone else. BUT my late father was a church choir > master during my youth (40 years ago). When the choir went out carol > singing round the local hospital, residential care homes etc. it was > Dad who had to do all the speaking on behalf of the choir, including > the Merry/Happy Christmas bit - usually many, many times during the > course of an evening. > > For a few years Dad used to get really fed up because he was forever > starting with "We wish you all the Happiest of Christmases" and then > he was stuck with either having to repeat Happy for the New Year or > saying Merry New Year - which really doesn't sound right. So one > year he made a conscious decision not to say Happy or Merry but to > wish everyone "Compliments of the Season". Later that phrase became > the absolutely only one appropriate to a multicultural society and > the many different faiths/societies holding traditional holidays at > this time of year. > > However, it upset my mum because it's rather too big to write in > icing on the top of a cake! > > Pam Just my two cents... I had always thought that you say Merry X-mas before the 24th and then Happy X-mas the 24th and onwards (only for a few days though;-} Christine From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 09:29:45 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:29:45 -0000 Subject: British HP books Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6610 Hedwigthecat wrote: "Does anyone have any good sites on the web that would be relatively inexpensive to purchase the British versions of the HP novels? I'm curious to see how differently they read." Penny replied: "www. amazon.co.uk (probably the best bet I would think)" It depends what is meant by best. Amazon is usually quickest but is rarely the cheapest. Amazon (www.amazon.co.uk) 23.36 for the books (4.79 for each of the first three and 8.99 for GoF) 10.95 for delivery to the US (2.95 flat rate and then 2.00 per book) Total: 34.31 Bol (www.uk.bol.com) 18.29 for the books (3.00 for each of the first three and 7.50 for GoF) 8.50 for delivery to the US (flat rate for up to 10 books - I think) Total: 26.79 Whsmiths (www.whsmith.co.uk) 19.76 for the books (3.59 for each of the first three and 8.99 for GoF) 10.75 for delivery to the US (2.95 flat rate and then 1.95 per book) Total: 30.51 Please note that there may be other sites out there as well but these are the ones that I use and trust. I would not use just any Internet site that I found - I need somewhere I would trust with my credit card details. Also all prices quoted above are correct when I checked them a few minutes ago and are in Pounds Sterling. I believe the current UK to US conversion is $1.45 to one pound. Meaning that the BoL (which is the cheapest) would cost about $40 (I think using exact conversion rate it comes to $38.82). Also where I say US above I would guess that this also includes Canada. Simon From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 09:28:18 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:28:18 +0000 Subject: AOL Quiz Message-ID: <3A349E32.210A461F@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6611 >What was the name of Voldemort's father? > >Barty Crouch. > >Tom Riddle. > >Lord Voldemort the First. > >Right answer! When Harry is transported to the graveyard and meets Voldemort, he learns that Voldemort's father was a muggle named Tom Riddle. > Your score is: 80 I don't agree with the answer to this one. Tom Riddle IS Lord Voldemort, not his father. Ref: COS Chap.17 "He pulled Harry's wand from his pocket and began to trace it through the air, writing three shimmering words: TOM MORVOLO RIDDLE Then he waved the wand once, and the letters of his name rearranged themselves: I AM LORD VOLDEMORT " Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 09:32:15 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:32:15 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] British HP books References: Message-ID: <3A349F1F.BE3B9F4E@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6612 > It depends what is meant by best. Amazon is usually quickest but is rarely > the cheapest. Agreed there. To comparison shop... try http://www.bookbrain.co.uk It does not compare all UK bookshops, but will clearly show that the books vary in price quite a bit between online suppliers. One thing to take in to account... International postage is more than UK postage, so visit the sites and check how much you will be paying in postage - some sites with a high book cost, could well have a lower postage cost. Nick. From kippesp at swbell.net Mon Dec 11 09:34:45 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:34:45 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Professor Trelawny In-Reply-To: <90rvtl+mc0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91273l+7d7b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6613 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > So when the disscussion of Trelawny comes down to it, the real > question is CAN we take her seriously. While she may have only made > two true predictions it seems that many of her predictions do come > true in vague and slightly unrelated ways. She, so it seems, is > either an extremely gifted diviner or a pitiful excuse for a > Professor and a big fraud. My money is on the latter especially > since the only real prediction she's made is one she did w/out > knowing it. Prof. Trelawny's abilities remind me of the vaguely hinted at abilities of the centaurs in SS/PS. To sum up, the centaurs in SS/PS had a remarkable amount of knowledge for a group seemingly isolated in the Forbidden Forest. They knew that the stone was hidden in the castle. And they knew about Voldemort's being not quite dead. The centaur that rescued Harry from Quarrel/Voldemort says on leaving, "The planets have been read wrongly before now, even by centaurs. I hope this is one of those times." To me the centaurs read that the planets were either predicting 1) Voldemort would immortally returned to "full strength and power" by drinking the Elixir of Life or 2) Harry would be killed. Fortunately neither took place during Harry's brief encounter with Voldemort in the Forest. But that centaur was strongly scolded by his fellow centaurs for (I'm assuming) interferring with foretold events. I for one, will pay heed to Trelawny's, Harry's, and Ron's predictions in future books. And yes, even the centaurs support Prof. McGonagall's statement that fortune telling [by planets] is imprecise. On a similar topic...Did Harry have dreams in CoS or PoA which suggested futuristic events. In SS/PS he has wierd dream that he forgets upon waking. To me, again, he seems to be either 1) subconsiously figuring that Voldemort is in the turban or 2) predicting his later determining that Voldemort is in the turban. Here is the passage: "[Harry] was wearing Prof. Quirrell's turban, which kept talking to him, telling him he must transfer to Slytherin at once, because it was his destiny." Malfoy later appears laughing and the dream continues "then Malfoy turned into [Snape] whose laugh became high and cold." It ends with Harry waking with the burst of green light thing. I'm sure that three books from now this will all be crystal. Well, may be? Paul From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 09:44:12 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:44:12 -0000 Subject: Re AOL quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6614 >What was the name of Voldemort's father? > >Barty Crouch. > >Tom Riddle. > >Lord Voldemort the First. > >Right answer! When Harry is transported to the graveyard and meets Voldemort, he learns that Voldemort's father was a muggle named Tom Riddle. > Your score is: 80 Nick wrote: "I don't agree with the answer to this one. Tom Riddle IS Lord Voldemort, not his father." Ref: COS Chap.17 "He pulled Harry's wand from his pocket and began to trace it through the air, writing three shimmering words: TOM MORVOLO RIDDLE Then he waved the wand once, and the letters of his name rearranged themselves: I AM LORD VOLDEMORT" It should be Marvolo, but that does not alter the fact that Tom Riddle (Lord Voldemort) was named after his father - oddly enough also called Tom Riddle. GoF Ch 35: 'The Dark Lord and I,' said Moody, 'have much in common. Both of us, for instance, had very disappointing fathers ... very disappointing indeed. Both of us suffered the indignity, Harry, of being named after those fathers. And both of us had the pleasure ... the very great pleasure ... of killing our fathers, to ensure the continued rise of the Dark Order!' Barty Crouch Jr - who at the time is still disguised as Mad-Eye Moody, said the above. It clearly points to Tom Riddle sharing his name with his father, except that he had the addition of the middle name Marvolo. Simon From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 09:43:11 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:43:11 -0000 Subject: AOL Quiz In-Reply-To: <3A349E32.210A461F@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <9127jf+aev3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6615 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Nick Mitchell wrote: > >What was the name of Voldemort's father? > > >Barty Crouch. > > >Tom Riddle. > > >Lord Voldemort the First. > > >Right answer! When Harry is transported to the graveyard and meets > Voldemort, he > learns that Voldemort's father was a muggle named Tom Riddle. > > Your score is: 80 > > I don't agree with the answer to this one. Tom Riddle IS Lord > Voldemort, not his > father. > > Ref: COS Chap.17 > "He pulled Harry's wand from his pocket and began to trace it through > the air, > writing three shimmering words: > TOM MORVOLO RIDDLE > Then he waved the wand once, and the letters of his name rearranged > themselves: > I AM LORD VOLDEMORT > " > > Nick. But aren't we told somewhere else - I fail to recall exactly where - that Tom Riddle is the name of both father and son???? Christine From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 09:45:57 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:45:57 -0000 Subject: Re AOL quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9127ol+us7b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6616 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > >What was the name of Voldemort's father? > > >Barty Crouch. > > >Tom Riddle. > > >Lord Voldemort the First. > > >Right answer! When Harry is transported to the graveyard and meets > Voldemort, he > learns that Voldemort's father was a muggle named Tom Riddle. > > Your score is: 80 > > Nick wrote: "I don't agree with the answer to this one. Tom Riddle IS Lord > Voldemort, not his father." > > Ref: COS Chap.17 > "He pulled Harry's wand from his pocket and began to trace it through the > air, writing three shimmering words: > TOM MORVOLO RIDDLE > Then he waved the wand once, and the letters of his name rearranged > themselves: > I AM LORD VOLDEMORT" > > It should be Marvolo, but that does not alter the fact that Tom Riddle (Lord > Voldemort) was named after his father - oddly enough also called Tom Riddle. > > GoF Ch 35: > 'The Dark Lord and I,' said Moody, 'have much in common. Both of us, > for instance, had very disappointing fathers ... very disappointing indeed. > Both of us suffered the indignity, Harry, of being named after those > fathers. And both of us had the pleasure ... the very great pleasure ... of > killing our fathers, to ensure the continued rise of the Dark Order!' > > Barty Crouch Jr - who at the time is still disguised as Mad-Eye Moody, said > the above. It clearly points to Tom Riddle sharing his name with his father, > except that he had the addition of the middle name Marvolo. > > > Simon Thanks - my point exactly, - I've still only read GoF once! Chris From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 12:51:40 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 04:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British HP Novels Message-ID: <20001211125140.8481.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6617 --- nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: > > > hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any good sites on the web that > would be > relatively > > > inexpensive to purchase the British versions of > the HP novels? I'm > > > curious to see how differently they read. > > > Where do you live? If you're pretty far north, the > Canadian editions > are pretty much identical to the UK ones, except for > copyright-page > stuff and "Printed in Canada" on the back cover; I > got my paperback > PS at a bricknmortar bookstore south of Montreal. > I can't go up there to send them to people, though, > b/c the holidays > are Way Too Busy and my car needs repair. ~:( > If you're interested in buying the Canadian versions, try Chapters.ca. If they don't ship outside Canada, let me know. I would be willing to pick you up copies and pop them in the mail. Until Dec 22 I will be working right beside a Chapters store. Should you you wish to wait until after the holidays, well, I still live fairly close to a Chapters store and will be passing by everyday on my way home from my new job in January. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 11 13:48:29 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Dec 2000 05:48:29 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: AOL Quiz Message-ID: <20001211134829.28532.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6618 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From duo at dangerous-minds.com Mon Dec 11 14:55:34 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:55:34 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: AOL Quiz and Delurk... In-Reply-To: <20001211134829.28532.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6619 Oookay... I think it's time to introduce myself to this list. My name's Nathan, resident of the Philippines, recent college graduate and certified Pottermaniac. Now that THAT'S out of the way >On Mon, 11 December 2000, Nick Mitchell wrote: > >> I don't agree with the answer to this one. Tom Riddle IS Lord >Voldemort, not his father. > >Ah, but you're forgetting something; Voldie was Tom Riddle *Junior.* Yes, when Harry was reliving Riddle's memories in "Chamber", didn't Riddle say at one point say he was named "Tom for my father, Marvolo for my grandfather." Nathan From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Mon Dec 11 14:59:18 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 06:59:18 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rights to Character Names Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6620 ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Bob and Mer ** wrote: ** > on 12/9/00 12:50 AM, Rita Winston at catlady at w... wrote: ** > ** > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: ** ** > > Then why did they end up with Hermione (on the wall calendar, ** anyway) ** > > being BLONDE when all the books say she has BROWN hair? ** > Not to mention the many times the canon talks about Hermione's ** bushy, curly ** > hair. Not one picture has her with curly hair. It's ** slightly wavy, ** giving ** > the impression of being full, but I think it's a far cry ** from bushy, ** curly ** > hair. Plus, where are her buck teeth? ** ** On the merchandise, I don't know why they would have this all wrong, ** but as for the actress herself, none of this worries me too much - ** hair can be changed pretty easily, and I'm sure they can fake the ** teeth, too. Cosmetic stuff is not too difficult. Right. I do think the actress playing Hermione in the movie is a bit too small and cute, but like you said, a lot of things can be fixed with movie make-up. It's mostly the merchandise that bugs me. Oh well. ** I do worry about ** how they are going to make poor little Rupert Grint this tall skinny ** lanky kid that Ron is describe as being. In the picture of ** the three ** actors together, he's clearly shorter than the actor who's playing ** Harry. I guess it doesn't matter that much, as the points ** where it's ** most inportant in the book are in descriptions, which we ** won't get in ** the movie anyway, but I'm hoping the boy will grow a couple ** of inches ** at least. ** Returning to lurkiness ** kimberly ** Yeah, that's an interesting point. I think the actor playing Ron looks great in every other way but I agree about the height thing. I'm nervous in general about the movie, as everyone else is, I'm sure, but the pictures posted of the filming look great. The movie is never as good as the book in any case, but at least as far as scenery goes, it looks like they're doing the best they can. Meredith From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 15:00:00 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:00:00 -0000 Subject: Tom Riddle (on topic), weight (off topic) and cats (off topic) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6621 Nathan wrote: "Yes, when Harry was reliving Riddle's memories in "Chamber", didn't Riddle say at one point say he was named "Tom for my father, Marvolo for my grandfather."" The following is from CoS - Chapter 13: "You live in a Muggle orphanage during the holidays, I believe?" said Dippet curiously. "Yes, sir," said Riddle, reddening slightly. "You are Muggle-born?" "Half-blood, sir," said Riddle. "Muggle father, witch mother." "And are both your parents -?" "My mother died just after I was born, sir. They told me at the orphanage she lived just long enough to name me - Tom after my father, Marvolo after my grandfather." Amanda wrote: "Cherish your youthful slimness, and innocence, and eat like you'll have a young metabolism forever....and you, I might add, will never have to deal with the pounds that really *do* want to stay, those you add during pregnancy." I am not sure how much I have to worry about - my dad weighs less than I do and is the wrong side of 50 - and he does more exercise than I do. Is there any hope for me? Neil wrote: "mice pies" I wrote: "Mice pies? Are they any good?" Neil answered my question with: "They are delicious. I usually eat them coated in the blood of a strangled cat." I wrote: "Sounds like one of the most useful things to do with a cat! Susan replied: "meeeooowww...professor mcgonagall and I are not amused, nor are my cats the Kent State Memorial Cat; Guinivere; Jezebel; Watson; Piper;McGregor and Uhura. Nor is Mrs. Figgs...." So now I have large numbers of cats (animagus, magical and muggle) after me - goes well with the dead maniac with a large demonic sword who is already after me! Sorry about the cat reference - I am mildly allergic to them and so usually make stupid remarks, such as the above one, when anyone mentions them. Simon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 11 15:03:17 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Dec 2000 07:03:17 -0800 Subject: Movie concerns Message-ID: <20001211150317.58.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6622 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Mon Dec 11 15:28:42 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:28:42 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 22 - The Unexpected Task (again) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6623 ** Also I was thinking of writing a Holiday themed fanfiction ** that would ** have Hermione as being Jewish. Does anyone see any problems,(e.g. ** explicit details that show she isn't Jewish) in the books that I may ** have overlooked??? ** ** Scott The only other thing I'd check is what she's eating. There are several times where they talk about them eating (and honestly off the top of my head I can't recall if they ever talk about what Hermione is eating) and if she's eating a bunch of bacon and sausage, she's not Jewish, or at least not keeping Kosher. Meredith From joym999 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 15:47:04 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:47:04 -0000 Subject: British HP books In-Reply-To: <3A349F1F.BE3B9F4E@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <912sto+p5vr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6624 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Nick Mitchell wrote: > > It depends what is meant by best. Amazon is usually quickest but is rarely > > the cheapest. > > Agreed there. > > To comparison shop... try http://www.bookbrain.co.uk > It does not compare all UK bookshops, but will clearly show that the books vary > in price quite a bit between online suppliers. > > One thing to take in to account... International postage is more than UK > postage, so visit the sites and check how much you will be paying in postage - > some sites with a high book cost, could well have a lower postage cost. Does anyone know if it is cheaper, or even possible, to get them from Canada. I would like to read the unamericanized versions, and I understand that the Canadian editions are the same as the British. It seems like it should be a lot cheaper to ship them from Canada to the U.S. than from Britian. Sources, anyone? --Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 16:33:12 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:33:12 -0000 Subject: Delurker, somewhat OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <912vk8+p0d7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6625 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nathan" wrote: > > Oookay... I think it's time to introduce myself to this list. My name's > Nathan, resident of the Philippines, recent college graduate and certified > Pottermaniac. > Welcome to the group, Nathan. I find it very exciting to have so many people from different parts of the world joining the group. Am I the only one frustrated by the fact that so many people from non- English speaking countries, who likely learned English as a second (or third or fourth) language, seem to have much better English writing skills than many (maybe most) Americans I meet? And that my own skills in other languages could be described, at best, as acceptable (but only if the describer was in a generous mood)? Why are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to learning other languages? (Excuse the OT posting, but Nathans perfect English really made me feel stupid.) --Joywitch From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 16:45:01 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:45:01 -0000 Subject: Wizard Genetics (long; OT and then not so OT) In-Reply-To: <3A32574A.E5DD06DA@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <9130ad+kesk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6626 Before I begin, I want to apologize for not saying "Hi, everyone. I'm new to this group". I was so interested I just dived right in. So - Hi everyone, I'm new to this group. Also, thank you Peg for the reference. It was undoubtedly the best HP review I've read. > Hmm. Again, I would say that wizardry doesn't so much EXCLUDE technology as it is an > alternative technology (wasn't it Arthur C. Clarke who said that at a sufficiently advanced > level technology is indistinguishable from magic?). For a clearer explanation of what I mean, > I refer people, for the umpteenth time, to one of my favorite critical essays about the HP > books (sorry if I'm becoming a bit repetitive in doing so): > > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html > > Peg Nonetheless, I still think that at least in the way we use the terms 'magic' and 'science' today, there is a very sharp divide between them. The technology examples that Rita gave in a former message (such as tying shoe strings) are what I would call "commonsense" technology. They don't involve knowledge of unseen powers and processes, which is precisely what science tries for. As I see it, the divide between science and magic is not so much in what they do differently, but in the different assumptions implicit in them. To do science you need to assume that if event A causes event B then event A will always cause event B. Without this assumption there would be no point in making experiments. Part of the magicality of the HP world is an inherent instability - like the chamber pots room that appeared and then disappeared. Another very strong assumption that a scientific world view has is that if event A causes event B then there is a continuity in space and time between event A and B (I've no idea what to do with quantum mechanics here, so please don't bring it up!). Magic, the way we use the term, precisely describes events whose causes are not, or don't seem to be, continuous in this manner - you yell 'Expelliarmus' and a wand, several feet away, flys away. So, science simply cannot recognize magic, and if it does manage to incorporate and explain a magical event, the event will immediately cease to be magical for us (see for instance the way we view magnetic force now that there is a theory describing it). That is why a magic gene is a very incoherent concept for me. Just think of the consequences - if a magic gene existed, then you could find it, sequence it and replicate it . The logical step would then be that you would be able to splice it into a young fetus - thereby creating wizards through genetic engineering. Rather a fun concept in a way, but not very convincing, is it? However, while writing all this serious (possibly boring) stuff, I conjured up two scenarios involving the magic gene: The first is that the gene is indeed found and people and fetuses can be screened for it. Imagnie the uproar on CNN! doctors, scientist, clergymen, politicians, evangelists are interviewed on every conceivable aspect. "Muggles for Harry Potter" will become an organization for promoting the welfare of magic children. I particularly like to imagine the fix the fundamental christian right will be in - is it, or is it not, morally right to abort a fetus that has been detected with a magic gene (Satan's brood?) ? Weeping (blond) couples on Oprah will share with the public their terrible dilema.. and so on. My second scenario is one where several Human Genome Project groups keep coming up with inconsistent data regarding a bizarre gene. At first it was located on chromosome I. Then two copies were found, by another group, on chromosome III. A group in France only found it on X. Also, its sequence changes slightly - in two experiments conducted by the same group!! Viewed in electronic microscope it tied itself up in a knot, and then changed to a lop-sided grin! The magic gene is indeed a magic gene. In fact, the last scenario also provides an answer to the Creevy brothers question. The magic gene splices itself into common cold viruses and from there splices itself again, in a magical way, into people the virus infects. A brother will be more likely to be infected by his brother's viruses (and getting the magic gene from it) than stranges. Voila! Bowing herself out, Naama From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 16:56:39 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:56:39 -0000 Subject: AOL Quiz and Delurk... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <913107+sgba@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6627 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nathan" wrote: > > Oookay... I think it's time to introduce myself to this list. My name's > Nathan, resident of the Philippines, recent college graduate and certified > Pottermaniac. > > Nathan Now that you've done it, I think i'd better too! Hi' my name is Christine, I'm Danish and attending teachers college, where I am (so far - two out of four) majoring in Danish and English. Also I'm a Potter-nut (big surprise - NOT) From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Mon Dec 11 17:02:06 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:02:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: AOL Quiz and Delurk... Message-ID: <35.dd20463.2766628e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6628 In a message dated 12/11/00 11:58:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, chrisworm at hotmail.com writes: << > Oookay... I think it's time to introduce myself to this list. My name's > Nathan, resident of the Philippines, recent college graduate and certified > Pottermaniac. > > Nathan >> Hello Nathan, I'm one of those DREADED Disgruntled Postal Workers...LOL I live in West Palm Beach, Florida....another strike against me since we SCREWED up the election. I think my only PLUS is that I LOVE HARRY POTTER!!! Anyway....welcome to the club!! Tessie From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 17:02:47 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:02:47 -0000 Subject: A question... Message-ID: <9131bn+i2h2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6629 Undoubtedly you've all had this one before, so I apologise in advance. But here goes... Could anyone give me their reason for loving Potter, I mean, what exactly is it about the books that are soooo good? I have to turn in a project on the subject of HP tomorrow, and as I am experiencing a bit of a writers block at the moment, I would really, really, really appreciate your input. Thanks Christine From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 17:24:30 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:24:30 +0000 Subject: Wand Order References: <3A349F1F.BE3B9F4E@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <3A350DCE.F57DE465@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6630 And the official answer is: "Lilly comes out first". So, that sorts that one. Nick Whose just got home and opened his post from Jo. From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Dec 11 17:29:33 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:29:33 -0000 Subject: Hermione: Jewish? In-Reply-To: <01C063AB.B567A580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <9132tt+2fuj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6631 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > "A question--how would her being Jewish really impact a story if she's not > very observant? If it doesn't affect her lifestyle? Because I can't see from > the books any such impact on what she does, so would it really make any > difference? > > Just curious, > Amanda" > > Maybe its more like the gay/lesbian thing. At this stage in the story it hasn't > made a lot of difference - but it might be a point in which people can read > themselves into the story. There are different streams of Judaism. Observant non-assimilated Jewish wizards probably have their own wizarding Yeshiva and learn Jewish magical traditions, which developed in medieval times and are quite elaborate. However Hermione's family could be Progressive (reform) Jews. They would celebrate Hannukah, but not keep Kosher. She might find it very meaningful to reflect on the meaning of the Holiday, which deals with the struggle of a small group of people to maintain their identity and resist tyranny. Lots of parallels with the Potterverse, IMHO. From lrcjestes at msn.com Mon Dec 11 17:44:38 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:44:38 -0500 Subject: Beacham's Sourcebook References: <3A32E297.C86D5D60@alumni.upenn.edu> <3A3425D0.80B1AE12@swbell.net> Message-ID: <002501c0639a$0d3ba520$4d6a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6632 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > Hi -- > > heidi wrote: > > > 3. Becham's Sourcebooks; Exploring Harry Potter - they HATED this (and > > rightly so) and call it "pretentious", saying the "deconstructions are > > dim witted" > > Penny, do you want to write a letter to the editor as Listmom of this > > mailing list, saying that we, as a list, agree with them, because > > there's nothing in the book which we haven't already discussed here, > > in more detail and (without sounding egomaniacal) with TONS more > > insight - they gave it 1 Wizard Hat > > Yes, I'll be happy to do that! Send me the address where it should be > sent in case I forget to go buy a copy of EW this week -- > > Is the Beacham book still circulating btw? > Carole raises her hand sheepishly. Who is it to go to after me? I must admit I haven't cracked it. Well, just now I did and it looked interesting, although with the reviews from you all, should I spend the time with it? Let me know who gets it next and I'll arrange with them whether they want it right away or whether I could take the time to explore it. carole From slamans at att.net Mon Dec 11 17:55:18 2000 From: slamans at att.net (Abbie Higginbottom Slaman) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:55:18 -0000 Subject: Sir Derek Jacobi Message-ID: <9134e6+s453@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6633 as Olivender... is it still a rumor? I saw his pic posted at the Yahoo "Muggles for Potter" club, and was wondering if there had been an announcement from WB. Abbie From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 11 18:27:23 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:27:23 -0000 Subject: Wand Order In-Reply-To: <3A350DCE.F57DE465@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <9136ab+gmf1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6635 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Nick Mitchell wrote: > And the official answer is: > > "Lilly comes out first". > > So, that sorts that one. > > Nick > Whose just got home and opened his post from Jo. What, you didn't get more details than that? curiousorly & curiousorly, heidi (who can hear Penny screaming all the way from texas) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 11 18:34:02 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:34:02 -0000 Subject: Beacham's Sourcebook In-Reply-To: <002501c0639a$0d3ba520$4d6a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9136mq+t4qs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6636 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "lrcjestes" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > > Is the Beacham book still circulating btw? > > > > Carole raises her hand sheepishly. Who is it to go to after me? I must > admit I haven't cracked it. Well, just now I did and it looked interesting, > although with the reviews from you all, should I spend the time with it? Um. Yes, if you can spare the time AND if it doesn't delay ASA12. I think the reason we were sending it around was to get people's comments on the errors & ommissions, and thoughts about the things she actually covered (I still recall that one of my big gripe is that in the Mythological Creatures section, there's stuff on all sorts of weird animals - and NOTHING on unicorns & phoenixes, which makes absolutely no sense). ANd if anyone has an hour to waste in a bookstore, pick it up, flip through it & let us know what you think... From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 18:36:47 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:36:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] And speaking of Christmas References: <911r5k+oqqo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A351EBE.6E0B0809@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6637 Joywitch, when I hit my Toys R Us last week, there were stacks and stacks of the trivia game....if they're still there when I go back this week, do you want me to get one for you? I'm low on funds, but if you can reimburse me I can swing it, I think. They were $25. --Amanda Joywitch wrote: > I was just wondering how everyones Harry Potter fandom has > contributed to their holiday celebrations. At least one person is > making a British culinary feast, I assume because of the HP > influence. I have to say that Harry Potter has influenced my holiday > only in that I asked for the trivia game for Christmas (which I wont > get because it is impossible to find -- my boyfriend told me he went > to Toys Backwards R Us, which is advertising it, and it wasnt there, > and while he was asking the clerk if they would get it in 2 other > people came up to ask for it). > > Anybody doing HP parties, decorations, wrapping paper, > cards,...anything interesting and obsessive? > > --Joywitch > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 18:41:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:41:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Thinking of CS Lewis References: <9122n4+f9pt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A351FBB.15EA6768@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6638 Christine wrote: > > Could you tell us what you mean by intertextuality? > > Susan > > There are a lot of references to "other texts" as well as historical > and mythological characters. The other texts are for example "The > Odyssey", "The Magician's Nephew", "Manfield Park" and so on, but > could also be history-books and "stuff like that". You're either talking about references to other books that show up in the text, and how the references further the story, OR you're talking about (I think the term is) hypermessages, hypertexts, which are sort of meta-stories--as an allegory would have the story per se, but a complete meta-story as well, illustrated by the basic story. Am I even close? --Amanda, whose literary analysis classes were sooo very long ago From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 18:45:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:45:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--guinea pigs References: <01C063AB.B04BF7E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A3520B9.4E5A635F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6639 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Hell no! it's only wealth and the availability of land that allows us to move > up the food chain to bigger animals Actually, where guinea pigs were domesticated, they *are* one of the bigger (manageable) animals. The mountains of South America, I believe, where the beasts of burden are the not-very-large llama family, too. I remember an article about domestication, why it only happened to such a select handful of species. It's not real easy--the species has to have a certain combination of characteristics, the culture has to have certain parameters, etc., for it to work. That's apparently why people "borrowed" already domesticated species rather than doing it themselves with the animals at hand. Thus, the odd ones, like guinea pigs and llamas, come from areas where the "usual" ones could not spread. Sorry, what a lecture, and off-topic to boot. I've been up all night with my 18-month old, with a fever over 103....he's the third to get it, we should be done now. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 18:46:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:46:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione: Jewish? References: <01C063AB.B567A580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A352102.98457945@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6640 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Loved the mice piece discussion. ROFL, hallo to Simon, fellow Aust (not at > Oxford Simon). Isn't it warm? (that should make all you northern hemisphere > people good and jealous!) Not particularly. I'm in South Texas. I've seen snow three whole times in my life, and once it was over an inch deep! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 18:53:05 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:53:05 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle (on topic), weight (off topic) and cats (off topic) References: Message-ID: <3A352291.5B76AD54@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6641 Simon wrote: > Amanda wrote: "Cherish your youthful slimness, and innocence, and eat like > you'll have a young metabolism forever....and you, I might add, will never > have to deal with the pounds that really *do* want to stay, those you add > during pregnancy." > > I am not sure how much I have to worry about - my dad weighs less than I do > and is the wrong side of 50 - and he does more exercise than I do. Is there > any hope for me? Not if you get within my reach.... --Amanda From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 18:57:32 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:57:32 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis In-Reply-To: <3A351FBB.15EA6768@texas.net> Message-ID: <91382s+6v69@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6642 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Christine wrote: > > > > Could you tell us what you mean by intertextuality? > > > Susan > > > > There are a lot of references to "other texts" as well as historical > > and mythological characters. The other texts are for example "The > > Odyssey", "The Magician's Nephew", "Manfield Park" and so on, but > > could also be history-books and "stuff like that". > > You're either talking about references to other books that show up in the > text, and how the references further the story, OR you're talking about (I > think the term is) hypermessages, hypertexts, which are sort of > meta-stories--as an allegory would have the story per se, but a complete > meta-story as well, illustrated by the basic story. Am I even close? > > --Amanda, whose literary analysis classes were sooo very long ago The references to other books thing was right on the mark From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Mon Dec 11 19:16:37 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:16:37 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] And speaking of Christmas Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6643 ** influence. I have to say that Harry Potter has influenced ** my holiday ** only in that I asked for the trivia game for Christmas (which I wont ** get because it is impossible to find -- my boyfriend told me he went ** to Toys Backwards R Us, which is advertising it, and it wasnt there, ** and while he was asking the clerk if they would get it in 2 other ** people came up to ask for it). We went all over the place looking for the Quidditch card game on Friday with no luck. I haven't even seen the Trivia game. I do have the SS board game and it's pretty lame, really. My husband and I played, but I see room to write my own rules to go with the great board. ** Anybody doing HP parties, decorations, wrapping paper, ** cards,...anything interesting and obsessive? I made my mom a birthday card and drew a great owl on the front to send it Owl Post. And my friend gave me a little ceramic owl pendant which I made into a HP-themed necklace (purple, blue and black glass beads, a few different designs of silver moon and stars beads with the owl in the middle - quite nice if I do say so myself...). And my husband and I have been obsessively hitting the stores for new merchandise, but no real holiday-related things. I think my favorite merchandise item is the WB pint glasses with the Hogwarts crest on them. Very cool. Meredith From relliott at jvlnet.com Mon Dec 11 19:23:32 2000 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:23:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] And speaking of Christmas References: Message-ID: <00fe01c063a7$da50f1c0$e3b191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 6644 Well, let me tell you in Janesville, Wisconsin there are still a lot of HP trivia games, HP clue, Quidditch, etc... If you have a Target, check there. ----- Original Message ----- From: Meredith Wilson To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:16 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] And speaking of Christmas > > > ** influence. I have to say that Harry Potter has influenced > ** my holiday > ** only in that I asked for the trivia game for Christmas (which I wont > ** get because it is impossible to find -- my boyfriend told me he went > ** to Toys Backwards R Us, which is advertising it, and it wasnt there, > ** and while he was asking the clerk if they would get it in 2 other > ** people came up to ask for it). > > We went all over the place looking for the Quidditch card game on Friday > with no luck. I haven't even seen the Trivia game. I do have the SS board > game and it's pretty lame, really. My husband and I played, but I see room > to write my own rules to go with the great board. > > ** Anybody doing HP parties, decorations, wrapping paper, > ** cards,...anything interesting and obsessive? > > I made my mom a birthday card and drew a great owl on the front to send it > Owl Post. And my friend gave me a little ceramic owl pendant which I made > into a HP-themed necklace (purple, blue and black glass beads, a few > different designs of silver moon and stars beads with the owl in the middle > - quite nice if I do say so myself...). And my husband and I have been > obsessively hitting the stores for new merchandise, but no real > holiday-related things. > > I think my favorite merchandise item is the WB pint glasses with the > Hogwarts crest on them. Very cool. > > Meredith > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 11 19:26:24 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:26:24 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] British HP Novels References: <9f.e4f3e8a.276590a7@aol.com> Message-ID: <003b01c063a8$40df3780$b4c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6645 Try Amazon.co.uk . catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: hedwigthecat at aol.com Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 11 december 2000 03:06 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] British HP Novels Does anyone have any good sites on the web that would be relatively inexpensive to purchase the British versions of the HP novels? I'm curious to see how differently they read. Of course, the title of the first book is completely different, so that will be one major change. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! ~Hedwig~ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 11 19:37:27 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:37:27 -0000 Subject: Beak to Beak (song) Message-ID: <913adn+1nvp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6646 Beak to Beak (to the tune of Cheek to Cheek) (The Scene: The front of Hagrid's hut: Enter HAGRID, with Buckbeak in tow) HAGRID: Hagrid ? I'm just Hagrid My menagerie of creatures is unique So please drop by some time and take a peak At my hippographs out grazing beak to beak Oh, I love raising giant spiders Or a litter of werewolf cubs Or hatching a baby dragon egg They gave me at the pub (Enter HARRY, RON & HERMIONE) HP, RW, & HG: They may be splendid as a unicorn Or as ugly as a skrewt Or as weird as a three-headed dog But to Hagrid, they're all cute Hagrid ? that's our Hagrid! Drop by his hut sometime and take a peek But please stay home if you're inclined to shriek Or you'll rest at Madame Pomfrey's for a week They may be terrifying horrors But they turn Hagrid's heart to mush ALL: I'm/He's just a guy who goes through life With a giant monster crush. - CMC From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Mon Dec 11 19:51:01 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:51:01 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie concerns Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6647 ** (note for Meredith: do you get people singing 76 Trombones ** at you a lot? Or am I the only one who's noticed?) ** ** Voicelady ** current book: rereading Peg's Wild Swans ** Current CD: the best of Badfinger Sorry to be off topic, but in response... Wilson is my married name. We grew up with musicals playing almost every Saturday and on car trips, etc. My dad's favorite was The Music Man and he always joked that one day I should marry someone named Wilson. Strangely, it actually ended up that way (and no, I didn't marry him just because of his name...) and I get plenty of jokes ever since. I don't mind though, and actually I'm pretty surprised how many people recognize the name. Meredith, the charming libraridith From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 11 19:46:02 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:46:02 -0000 Subject: merchandise Message-ID: <913atq+a152@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6648 there's a new box set of the US editions - http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=4J5Q6 U82I2&isbn=0641066317 - it's almost $70, so only get it for someone you *really* like : ) barnes & Noble also has those Secret Boxes (you too can decide what color hermion'es hair is at (http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=4J5Q 6U82I2&isbn=0641066317 - it look s a lot lighter there than on my secret box) and a bunch of the games on their website, including the quidditch game and sorcerer's stone game at http://www.barnesandnoble.com/gift/kids/harry_potter/games_puzzles.asp ?userid=4J5Q6U82I2 - but I only saw the trivia game in their shop last saturday. Also in the store, but not on the website, were the Big Sticker Book (if you ever wanted to put a QUidditch sticker on your car's bumper, this is the thing for you - I am putting a Gryffendor sticker on my computer!) and these 2 very cute little books which are on keychains - one was a photo album for wallet sized pictures, and the other was a tiny diary (methinks they should've saved the diary products for the release of Book 2 merchandise - wouldn't EVERY child love to have a Tom Riddle's Diary of their very own? (sarcasm off) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 11 19:53:52 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Dec 2000 11:53:52 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Beak to Beak (song) Message-ID: <20001211195352.8033.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6649 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 11 19:56:12 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:56:12 -0000 Subject: harry potter university? Message-ID: <913bgs+i2rv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6650 Barnes & Noble is "teaching" an online course on Teaching Children Literature With Harry Potter- it's at http://www.barnesandnobleuniversity.com/Classroom/Course/1,1438,25015_ 25506__,00.html - I don't know, I can't imagine getting much from it that we haven't already covered here, but I did sign up anyway out of the same curiousity that made me buy that Beecham's Sourcebook which I was griping about earlier today... From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 11 20:11:16 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Dec 2000 12:11:16 -0800 Subject: Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans Message-ID: <20001211201116.8423.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6651 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 11 20:14:14 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Dec 2000 12:14:14 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans Message-ID: <20001211201414.8501.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6652 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 20:26:23 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:26:23 -0000 Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6653 http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=22ANY2F30V& mscssid=3NK0762L43KL9NVFV0W9F4394XJE2BTB&isbn=0439236541 I was going to say how I was still struggling to find any of the merchandise that I liked and then I saw the Hedwig Journal (link above). Just leaving me with the question: what do they mean by journal? Not to mention the question of whether is it blue or green? The one on bn.com has green background and the one on amazon.co.uk has a blue background (which is much better). Leaving me in my more normal state - confused! Voicelady wrote: "There is a flavor guide inside and the four icky flavors in the bag are black pepper, grass (I experienced those two in an unmarked bag a few months ago), horseradish and, believe it or not, booger. Can you imagine the research/development department figuring that one out?" And then responded with: "(Hey, check me out, responding to my own post!) And new flavors coming next year are dirt, mustard and (eeuuuch) vomit." I will ignore making some obvious remarks about responding to ones own messages! So from now on you will have to be careful if you visit someone and they offer you some unlabeled sweets! For all you know they may have sneaked a whole packet of vomit flavoured beans for amusement! And when Weasley Wizard Wheezes products go on sale you will never be able to trust any food anyone gives you! Simon From heiditandy at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 20:34:23 2000 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:34:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise Message-ID: <20001211203423.72510.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6654 --- Simon wrote: > I was going to say how I was still struggling to > find any of the merchandise > that I liked and then I saw the Hedwig Journal (link > above). Just leaving me > with the question: what do they mean by journal? Journal = blank book to write in - I assume they are calling them Journals and not Diaries because (a) they don't have dates in them, and (b) they are trying to market them to boys & girls (and grownups?) and I assume teenage boys just don't buy diaries, right? ===== heidi tandy Bad invention of the month: A futuristic weapon which in no way improves on the design of the medieval sword, thus exposing Jedi to attacks from any idiot with a blaster. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From rebelslgb at aol.com Mon Dec 11 21:14:52 2000 From: rebelslgb at aol.com (rebelslgb at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:14:52 -0000 Subject: And speaking of Christmas In-Reply-To: <911r5k+oqqo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <913g4c+esbl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6655 i have no trouble finding any of the harry potter merchandice. i can pick you up a trivia game if you want, every store in my town has them. along with every other game. thats weird that its hard to find by you. kristen PS: i was part of the yahoo club, just never got around to joining you guys here. my name on yahoo was Sag From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Dec 11 21:54:40 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:54:40 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wand Order In-Reply-To: <913698+q2c1@eGroups.com> References: <3A350DCE.F57DE465@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001211135250.02e21a30@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6656 At 06:26 PM 12/11/00 +0000, heidi tandy wrote: > > "Lilly comes out first". > >What, you didn't get more details than that? What details are there to get? She made a boo-boo in the narrative. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 11 21:50:30 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:50:30 -0000 Subject: a moment with anna quindlan (not really OT) Message-ID: <913i76+jlik@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6657 from the new issue of newsweek: "IT'S ALL BECAUSE this presidential election is what we adults like to call a "teachable moment," which means the stuff in the lesson plan is getting old and the faculty will glom onto any new material. (They tried to do it with the impeachment process, but there was the cigar, and the dress, and the phone sex, and you just knew that the parents who went to the school board about *Harry Potter* were not going to dig that one little bit!)" From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Mon Dec 11 22:15:56 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:15:56 -0800 Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6658 All of you guys who are saying you can find all the merch... you wouldn't happen to be anywhere near Seattle would you? I guess even so I could have people send and get here before Christmas... Would things get here fast enough? Meredith From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 22:19:01 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:19:01 +0000 Subject: Wand Order References: <9136ab+gmf1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3552D4.BBD00C47@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6659 > What, you didn't get more details than that? No... I asked Jo a direct question... she answered the direct question. If you ask her something which will take a while to reply to... she won't get round to a quick reply. The key question was Who Came Out Of The Wand First - Lilly or James... and she answered that. There is some good news... I now an Email address contact - but no, I'm not giving it to you lot - sorry. But at least... when things come up, we can ask quicker - but we will need to keep questions nice and simple, nice and direct... and not to ask too often. With luck - Fiddy (Jo's PA) may actually log on to our group every now and then - Hello Fiddy :-) You never know... Jo herself might join and read us one day, we can but hope. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 22:25:51 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:25:51 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise References: Message-ID: <3A35546F.C0DDFFB0@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6660 Hi Simon and all. > I was going to say how I was still struggling to find any of the merchandise > that I liked and then I saw the Hedwig Journal (link above). Just leaving me > with the question: what do they mean by journal? It's a diary without dates. Maybe 'Jotter' would be a better name. > Not to mention the question of whether is it blue or green? The one on > bn.com has green background and the one on amazon.co.uk has a blue > background (which is much better). Leaving me in my more normal state - > confused! I saw these at Suoix Falls airport while I was over in the US. Didn't pick any up as I noticed they were made by Scholastic - and thus would be available online. The one on the Amazon.co.uk site certainly looks to be blueish... but it isn't a great scan, so it could be dark green in reality. Talking of merchandise... question for those of you with ever growing collections - where do you store it all? My HP collection has now filled a shelf, so I'm in need of getting more shelf's or display cabinet or something. Maybe I'm just taking things a bit too far! Nick. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 22:35:53 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:35:53 -0000 Subject: Wand Order In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001211135250.02e21a30@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <913ks9+e5ui@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6661 The alleged official word- > > "Lilly comes out first". Ok, straight from Jo's lips and I still don't like it! I don't care whether she validates it a MILLION times though. It just doesn't fit. Is there any way we can have a recount on this? Anyway are you positive that Jo actually wrote this? I mean I'm already wondering if she's nutters, and to spell Lily wrong too! Hey not to be pushy or anything but is that ALL she wrote? I would love to read whatever else Jo may have included in her correspondence, and there must be something else as it's hard for me to buy that these words were simply written very small in the middle of an otherwise blank page. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 22:47:03 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:47:03 -0000 Subject: Wand Order In-Reply-To: <3A3552D4.BBD00C47@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <913lh7+7lri@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6662 > > No... I asked Jo a direct question... she answered the direct question. If > you ask her something which will take a while to reply to... she won't get > round to a quick reply. Ok, Ok, I'll shut up about it. Ignore my last message! > There is some good news... I now an Email address contact - but no, I'm not > giving it to you lot - sorry. But at least... when things come up, we can > ask quicker - but we will need to keep questions nice and simple, nice and > direct... and not to ask too often. > > With luck - Fiddy (Jo's PA) may actually log on to our group every now and > then - Hello Fiddy :-) You never know... Jo herself might join and read > us one day, we can but hope. Hmmmm, now how can I bribe you to change your mind about that e-mail thing. (I'm kidding) It's probably better that way, I mean imagine if this lot had Jo's email address. You're sane enough, or at least more so that some of us (RELAX! I'm talking about myself) and I guess I'll leave it at that. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From donnadr at gte.net Mon Dec 11 22:48:05 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:48:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A question... References: <9131bn+i2h2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003b01c063c4$6dad7d00$33dcfea9@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 6663 One of the best things I discovered while reading the HP books was that I was reading and smiling at the same time. And I kept wanting to tell all my friends to read them because they were so good. It must be catching because all my friends (and family) who have read the books feel the same way. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Christine To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 12:02 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A question... Undoubtedly you've all had this one before, so I apologise in advance. But here goes... Could anyone give me their reason for loving Potter, I mean, what exactly is it about the books that are soooo good? I have to turn in a project on the subject of HP tomorrow, and as I am experiencing a bit of a writers block at the moment, I would really, really, really appreciate your input. Thanks Christine eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 23:00:56 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:00:56 -0000 Subject: Journal / diary Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6664 I wrote: "I was going to say how I was still struggling to find any of the merchandise that I liked and then I saw the Hedwig Journal (link above). Just leaving me with the question: what do they mean by journal?" Heidi replied: "Journal = blank book to write in - I assume they are calling them Journals and not Diaries because (a) they don't have dates in them, and (b) they are trying to market them to boys & girls (and grownups?) and I assume teenage boys just don't buy diaries, right?" This is odd. I have more problems with the idea of a journal than a diary. A journal to me suggests something in which you keep a record of things you have done, but a diary can just be something to keep a list of appointments or contact details in. I do have a diary that is for keeping timetables or appointments in. However I just use it to keep a pile of paper in, on which I write all my appointments, have a copy of my timetable, write shopping lists and to keep track of contact details for friends (not to mention a list of fan fiction worth reading). I do this because I cannot be bothered to change over to a new diary each year - so having all the details on removable bits of paper just means that I have to move these bits from one diary to the next each year! Simon From relliott at jvlnet.com Mon Dec 11 23:16:08 2000 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:16:08 -0600 Subject: "How HP has changed my life" contest winners Message-ID: <000d01c063c8$58c09900$8bb291d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 6665 HP Club: Scholastic Books released the winners of the "How Harry Potter Changed my Life" Contest. If you would like to read the winning essays go to http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/lifechange/index.htm I found all of the essays wonderful but, Ashley M. Age 14 touched my heart. After reading the essays, I really don't want to ever hear again that Harry Potter is bad for children. Rachelle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 23:11:13 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:11:13 +0000 Subject: Wand Order References: <913lh7+7lri@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A355F10.9B836D93@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6666 > Hmmmm, now how can I bribe you to change your mind about that e-mail > thing. (I'm kidding) It's probably better that way, I mean imagine if > this lot had Jo's email address. That isn't even worth thinking about. Imagine the amount of mail Fiddy would have to go through if the address was made public! > You're sane enough, or at least more so that some of us (RELAX! I'm > talking about myself) and I guess I'll leave it at that. Me... Sane... hmm, don't think so. I just know when to keep things myself. I know from past experience that if I contact Jo/Fiddy too often, Fiddy calls me and say - "I have ANOTHER letter from you!"... she's good like that! Off Topic Roll on Wednesday... ADSL connection going in... great. Now all I need is some decent email software and a web browser that does not crash every 5 mins. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Dec 11 23:11:41 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:11:41 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wand Order References: <913ks9+e5ui@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A355F2D.5B4C157@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6667 > Anyway are you positive that Jo actually wrote this? I mean I'm > already wondering if she's nutters, and to spell Lily wrong too! Yes I am sure... sorry, the spelling mistake was mine - just looked at the letter, it should have said Lily. > Hey not to be pushy or anything but is that ALL she wrote? No... there was a bit more... went along the lines of "Thank you for your letter and Christmas card". The letter was from Jo's PA, not Jo herself - pity, Jo's obviously too busy these days to do me a handwritten letter. The full sentence from the letter is: With reference to your question on the correct Wand Order Jo's answer is "Lily comes out first". There was nothing with regard to my other query - I had mentioned that I had thought Hagrid's hut was made of wood... had Jo seen the WB Set yet? So maybe Jo is working on that one... I wonder if we will see a new picture of Hagrid's hut sometime soon. > I would love to read whatever else Jo may have included in her > correspondence, and there must be something else as it's hard for me > to buy that these words were simply written very small in the middle > of an otherwise blank page. Oh come on Scott... of course it has other things, but I only tell you the things I want to tell you ;-) If you want to get a letter from Jo... or more commonly her PA now, you will have to write yourself. It's an easy address: J K Rowling, PO BOX 27036, Edinburgh, EH10 5WB, United Kingdom Nick. From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 23:12:10 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:12:10 -0000 Subject: Journal / diary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <913n0a+2dte@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6668 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > I wrote: "I was going to say how I was still struggling to find any of the > merchandise that I liked and then I saw the Hedwig Journal (link above). > Just leaving me with the question: what do they mean by journal?" > > Heidi replied: "Journal = blank book to write in - I assume they are calling > them Journals and not Diaries because (a) they don't have dates in them, and > (b) they are trying to market them to boys & girls (and grownups?) and I > assume teenage boys just don't buy diaries, right?" > > This is odd. I have more problems with the idea of a journal than a diary. A > journal to me suggests something in which you keep a record of things you > have done, but a diary can just be something to keep a list of appointments > or contact details in. > > I do have a diary that is for keeping timetables or appointments in. However > I just use it to keep a pile of paper in, on which I write all my > appointments, have a copy of my timetable, write shopping lists and to keep > track of contact details for friends (not to mention a list of fan fiction > worth reading). I do this because I cannot be bothered to change over to a > new diary each year - so having all the details on removable bits of paper > just means that I have to move these bits from one diary to the next each > year! > > > Simon I've got to remember that removable paper-bit thing - what a wonderful idea, especially for phonenumbers and stuff! Just realising it's past midnight, and wondering what in the world I'm doing here - - OH yeah that's right, I'm working on a paper that's due in now less than 12 hours Christine :-{ From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 23:13:20 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:13:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Thinking of CS Lewis References: <91382s+6v69@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A355F8F.EC107DC3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6669 Christine wrote: > Amanda asked: > You're either talking about references to other books that > show up > in the > > text, and how the references further the story, OR you're talking > about (I > > think the term is) hypermessages, hypertexts, which are sort of > > meta-stories--as an allegory would have the story per se, but a > complete > > meta-story as well, illustrated by the basic story. Am I even close? > > > > --Amanda, whose literary analysis classes were sooo very long ago > > The references to other books thing was right on the mark Okay, now that we know what you're talking about, what was the question again? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 23:27:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:27:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wand Order References: <3A350DCE.F57DE465@dvd-films.freeuk.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20001211135250.02e21a30@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A3562C4.22B84EE8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6670 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 06:26 PM 12/11/00 +0000, heidi tandy wrote: > > > "Lilly comes out first". > > > >What, you didn't get more details than that? > > What details are there to get? She made a boo-boo in the > narrative. I'd wondered if she actually wrote the correction, or just okayed the switching of the character names with whatever pronoun alteration necessary. I suspect the latter. --Amanda From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 11 23:28:42 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:28:42 -0000 Subject: Thinking of CS Lewis In-Reply-To: <3A355F8F.EC107DC3@texas.net> Message-ID: <913nva+eouj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6671 > > Okay, now that we know what you're talking about, what was the question > again? > > --Amanda OK, I'm writng a project on about Harry Potter, the focus being intertextual reference. F.ex. Minerva as in McGonagall and so on. I'm desperately looking for a source on the theory of the Voldemort/Merlin connection. You wouldn't happen to have one, would you. Christine:-) From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 11 23:44:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:44:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Thinking of CS Lewis References: <913nva+eouj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3566CD.488FC5FE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6672 Christine wrote: > I'm writng a project on about Harry Potter, the focus being > intertextual reference. F.ex. Minerva as in McGonagall and so on. I'm > desperately looking for a source on the theory of the > Voldemort/Merlin connection. You wouldn't happen to have one, would > you. Aha! Aha! Try Steve's Harry Potter Lexicon at http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/index.html There's a couple more sites that go into name sources specifically, I think, but I don't have the links. Steve? --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 12 00:19:11 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:19:11 -0000 Subject: Beacham book In-Reply-To: <3A3425D0.80B1AE12@swbell.net> Message-ID: <913qtv+ipuv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6673 > > Is the Beacham book still circulating btw? The YA librarian in our local library came up to me and asked if I'd heard of this book. She was thinking about buying it for the library. I told her that I'd looked at a copy in a bookstore and in one page found four blatant errors, plus I told her all the REAL experts on HP4GU found it to be an example of the worst kind of academic pretentiousness. She laughed. And no, she didn't buy the book. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 00:47:07 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:47:07 -0000 Subject: British HP books In-Reply-To: <912sto+p5vr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <913sib+nidg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6674 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > Does anyone know if it is cheaper, or even possible, to get them from > Canada. I would like to read the unamericanized versions, and I > understand that the Canadian editions are the same as the British. > It seems like it should be a lot cheaper to ship them from Canada to > the U.S. than from Britian. Sources, anyone? > > --Joywitch Chapters (www.chapters.ca) is the only online Canadian bookstore I know; they offer a confusing array of editions; the cheapest Canadian (Raincoast Books) paperback PS is $7.96 CDN; CoS is $8.76; there's no paperback PoA but the Raincoast hardcover is listed at $13.96; and GoF is $24.50. Their shipping to the U.S. (here I'm assuming Canadian dollars but their site's not specific) runs; -$5/order +$1/item surface mail (14 business days average; this means I'd probably get mine in Vermont a week before you would in Texas) -$15/order+ $5/item airmail (2-3 days). I'll repost again with totals once I get the exchange rate, but it's about CDN$1= US$0.70-.75 From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 01:03:17 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 01:03:17 -0000 Subject: British HP books-CDN prices In-Reply-To: <912sto+p5vr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <913tgl+l4ru@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6675 As detailed before, these prices are from chapters.ca; I used the currency converter at www.xe.com; All prices are in US dollars. BOOKS; PS $5.22 CoS 5.75 PoA 9.15 (HC) GoF 16.06 subtotal- 36.18 Ground S&H Airmail S&H First item $3.28 9.84 Add'l items .66/ea. 3.28/ea. Total S&H 5.26 14.68 Grand total(US$)41.44 ground; 50.86 airmail -nlpnt, exhausted by his Hermione impression, which involved more in- head math than he's done since high school! From morine10 at aol.com Tue Dec 12 02:13:39 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:13:39 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Genetics (long; OT and then not so OT) Message-ID: <23.4ca241c.2766e3d3@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6676 In a message dated 12/11/00 11:46:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, naama_gat at hotmail.com writes: > To do science you need to assume that if event A causes event B then > event A will always cause event B. Without this assumption there > would be no point in making experiments. Part of the magicality of > the HP world is an inherent instability - like the chamber pots room > But, (and correct me if I'm wrong, please) doesn't Dumbledore in fact tell us that the magic regarding the appearing/disappearing chamber pots room is an A causes B event and not random. I don't know Dumbledore's exact words but it was something to the effect of......perhaps it is only visible on Tuesdays when the moon is full, or when the person has an exceptionally full bladder.......It seems to me he is saying that there is an event (A) that causes the chamber pot room to appear (B). He simply has not been able to pinpoint A. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Dec 12 02:18:45 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:18:45 -0000 Subject: "How HP has changed my life" contest winners In-Reply-To: <000d01c063c8$58c09900$8bb291d8@computer> Message-ID: <9141u5+m8nt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6677 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: > HP Club: > > Scholastic Books released the winners of the "How Harry Potter Changed my Life" Contest. If you would like to read the winning essays go to http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/lifechange/index.htm > > I found all of the essays wonderful but, Ashley M. Age 14 touched my heart. After reading the essays, I really don't want to ever hear again that Harry Potter is bad for children. > > Rachelle Rachelle, thanks for posting this link. These essays were amazingly touching. I had tears in my eyes by the end. You're right; every person who has a problem with HP should be forced to read these. I hope JKR has seen them, and remembers them when she hears of people criticizing her work... Kelley From eliasberg at ioc.net Tue Dec 12 03:26:33 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 03:26:33 -0000 Subject: "How HP has changed my life" contest winners In-Reply-To: <9141u5+m8nt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9145t9+tfqk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6678 Those are simply amazing essays, makes you appreciate life a little more. From joym999 at aol.com Tue Dec 12 03:42:30 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 03:42:30 -0000 Subject: miscellaneous responses Message-ID: <9146r6+smbc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6679 I posted several queries on here about chestnuts, Canadian versions of the HP books, the HP trivia game, and maybe more and lots of people have responded with helpful suggestions and even offers to get stuff for me which I am having trouble finding. I owe lots of thanks yous to Amanda and nlpnt and other people, too. I would like to ask one of you to mail me the trivia game, which does not seem to be in any of the stores around here. However, when I told my boyfriend that I was going to ask someone to send it to me, he got that pouty look that guys get when they think you are implying that they are not able to fulfill their manly responsibilities. Apparently I am offending his male honor by not letting him continue to go to the toy store every day to look for it. Men! Why do we put up with them? Anyway, thanks again to all you nice folks, who I may still take up on your offer after my boyfriend finally admits that he is not able to find the stupid trivia game. And, in response to the question about what the difference is between a journal and a diary: A diary is a pink thing with hearts. It has the date on the top of each page, and teenage girls write things in them like: Tommy Henderson smiled at me today! He is SO CUTE!!! I think I would just DIE if he talked to me!!!!!!!! A journal has an artsy cover and blank pages. People who wear black clothes hang out in Starbucks on Saturday nights and write existential thoughts in them. --Joywitch From homanm at umich.edu Tue Dec 12 03:54:35 2000 From: homanm at umich.edu (Meg ) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 03:54:35 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Professor Trelawny In-Reply-To: <91273l+7d7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9147hr+hqru@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6680 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "smitster " wrote: > I for one, will pay heed to Trelawny's, Harry's, and Ron's > predictions in future books. I've only posted here once, but I was reading CoS tonight and thought of the list's discussion of Ron's off-hand comments that demonstrate his possible psychic powers. In Chapter 13 of CoS, when Ron, Harry, and Hermione are trying to figure out how Tom Riddle earned an award for special services to the school, Ron says "Maybe he murdered Myrtle." Which, of course, happens to be true, although Ron had no way of knowing that and it's certainly not why Riddle got the award. I'm going to be looking out for more comments like this. I can't believe I never noticed it before! Meg From hedwigthecat at aol.com Tue Dec 12 04:26:49 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:26:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British HP Novels Message-ID: <3f.dc72eee.27670309@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6681 In a message dated 12/10/2000 6:20:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << www. amazon.co.uk (probably the best bet I would think) >> I'll try that. Thank you. I'm on the west coast of the US. ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Tue Dec 12 04:29:49 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:29:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] British Food; Cloaks Message-ID: <86.41e8a61.276703bd@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6682 In a message dated 12/10/2000 7:36:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, pkerr06 at attglobal.net writes: << I talked with the company I'd bought my cloak from about lining, and the person said that after years for experimentation they decided that it was preferable not to line the cloaks--it didn't seem to serve much of a useful purpose and any lining they put it seemed to get ripped anyway. I have to agree. My coats always had ripped lining; there's no lining in my cloak and I don't miss it in the least. >> I've always found that lining a cloak makes it drape well, adds to the warmth and makes it flow much nicer:) ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Tue Dec 12 04:31:50 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:31:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re:Cloaks and Capes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6683 In a message dated 12/10/2000 9:11:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, SHENmagic at aol.com writes: << Following the thread of cloaks lined and unlined, here is an absolutely delicious site, which apparently is part of a web of " League of Renaissance Merchants": Dragonfly Design Studio http://DragonflyDesignStudio.com/ Alas, it 's mostly patterns for those who have time and dexterity.... Ayleyaell :::mostly in lurkdom these days::::: >> You can also visit www.katarra.com. They make a bunch of different cloaks and Renissance stuff as well as a lot of other things. ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Tue Dec 12 04:35:33 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:35:33 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] British HP books Message-ID: <9d.e641cb4.27670515@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6684 In a message dated 12/11/2000 1:29:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk writes: << It depends what is meant by best. Amazon is usually quickest but is rarely the cheapest. >> Simon, thank you for the suggestions. I'll check out each one of them. I did notice that Amazon has the uk editions in soft back as well. ~Hedwig~ From hedwigthecat at aol.com Tue Dec 12 04:41:54 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:41:54 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] And speaking of Christmas Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6685 In a message dated 12/11/2000 11:18:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, relliott at jvlnet.com writes: << Well, let me tell you in Janesville, Wisconsin there are still a lot of HP trivia games, HP clue, Quidditch, etc... If you have a Target, check there. >> Hallmark has some great items as well. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From Ellimist15 at aol.com Tue Dec 12 05:00:49 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:00:49 EST Subject: Thinking of C.S. Lewis Message-ID: <10.5f4bd0f.27670b01@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6686 Christine wrote: > I'm writng a project on about Harry Potter, the focus being > intertextual reference. F.ex. Minerva as in McGonagall and so on. I'm > desperately looking for a source on the theory of the > Voldemort/Merlin connection. You wouldn't happen to have one, would > you. Although it doesn't have a Voldemort/Merlin connection, my website, "What's in a Name?" is probably the most complete HP name source guide you'll find. If this doesn't have what you're looking for, try Steve's "Harry Potter Lexicon". The address for my webiste is: http://www.cornishpixie.cjb.net Steve's website is: http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/index.html Hope this helps, Ellie From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 12 05:58:19 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 05:58:19 -0000 Subject: Bad Translation Message-ID: <914epr+l323@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6687 Just for fun I used Freetranslation.com to computer translate a well know paragraph From Harry Potter to French and then back into English. The original paragraph is below it. I think the second paragraph is a tad better. Almost ten years had passed since Dursleys had woken to the discovery their nephew on the front step, but the unity of Privet had changed of the all hardly. The sun risen on the front gardens of similar tidy and reads in top the number four of copper on Dursleys' the front door; it crawled in their living room, that was almost exactly similar so to speak on the night when M. Dursley had seen that the new fatal ones retrieve owls. Only photograph them on the really showed mantelpiece how much the time had passed. Ten years ago, there had been a lot of pictures of that that seemed of a big one to carry pink beach bullet different-colored caps - but Dursley Dudley was either long a baby, and now photograph them showed a big boy of blond one traveling his the first bicyclette, on a carousel to the just one, to play a computer game with Mother. The room did not hold sign of the all that another boy lived in the house, also. Nearly ten years had passed since the Dursleys had woken up to find their nephew on the front step, but Privet Drive had hardly changed at all. The sun rose on the same tidy front gardens and lit up the brass number four on the Dursleys' front door; it crept into their living room, which was almost exactly the same as it had been on the night when Mr. Dursley had seen that fateful news report about the owls. Only the photographs on the mantelpiece really showed how much time had passed. Ten years ago, there had been lots of pictures of what looked like a large pink beach ball wearing different-colored bonnets - but Dudley Dursley was no longer a baby, and now the photographs showed a large blond boy riding his first bicycle, on a carousel at the fair, playing a computer game with his father, being hugged and kissed by his mother. The room held no sign at all that another boy lived in the house, too. From chrisworm at hotmail.com Tue Dec 12 06:07:33 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:07:33 -0000 Subject: Thinking of C.S. Lewis In-Reply-To: <10.5f4bd0f.27670b01@aol.com> Message-ID: <914fb5+gb2a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6688 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: Dear Amanda and Ellie Thanks a million for your help. However I had found those sites already. I do think I have enough to complete my project though. So I better get on with it. Just another thought on the CS Lewis thing... Doesn't pensieve and Pevensie sound pretty close?!? Christine - who will be tickled to bits in about 5 hours when the d... project is turned in;-) From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 12 06:15:13 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:15:13 -0800 Subject: Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors Message-ID: <3A35C270.C9D13077@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6689 Meredith Wilson wrote: The only other thing I'd check is what she's eating. (snip) and if [Hermione}'s eating a bunch of bacon and sausage, she's not Jewish, or at least not keeping Kosher. Anyone who is eating any of the meals in the Great Hall is not keeping kosher, at least not according to the rules. They're not eating any meat, as no one even claims that it was slaughtered according to kosher laws. They're not eating any dairy products, as no one even claims that the utensils etc used with the dairy products were never ever used with meat. If they're picky, they're not even eating vegetables in case the vegetable was cooked in a pot that had been used for both meat and dairy (probably at different times). Personally, I have never gotten any impression that Hermione is of Jewish ethnicity (which I am, altho' not of Jewish religion) and I *have* gotten an impression that her parents the dentists were Caribbean-born and she probably has some black ancestors. Joywitch wrote: Why are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to learning other languages? I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about learning languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language such that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the language learning areas of the brain? Heidi Tandy wrote: Also in the store, but not on the website, were the Big Sticker Book and these 2 very cute little books which are on keychains - one was a photo album for wallet sized pictures, and the other was a tiny diary When I trudged through a WHOLE SHOPPING MALL, I found the Big Sticker book and the little keychain books, not at any of the stores advertising / licensing HP merchandise, but at Card Fever (kind of like a Hallmark shop but not Hallmark). They had 3 of the little books (the other was an address book) and the photo album's title was FAMOUS WITCHES AND WIZARDS and I am kicking myself because I can't remember the titles of the other two. As for the book of bumper stickers, I had looked at only the first three stickers when Tim asked me if if included MY CHILD IS AN HONORS STUDENT AT HOGWARTS SCHOOL so I handed it to him so he could check. He told me that it didn't. I bought a Quidditch board game to send to my goddessdaughter on the other side of the country for Yule and Tim bought her a Beanie Kid with an *adorable* witch costume. As the game was destined to be a prezzie, I didn't open it to see how it works. Voicelady told us of the flavors of Bertie Botts' Beans: the four icky flavors in the bag are black pepper, grass (I experienced those two in an unmarked bag a few months ago), horseradish and, believe it or not, booger. And new flavors coming next year are dirt, mustard and (eeuuuch) vomit. This reminded me of an ad I once saw for perfumes that are supposed to be comforting smells for the wearer, which included flavors like Grass, Dirt, Tomato, Whisky, Pipe Tobacco, Funeral Parlor.... I remembered that the brand name was Demeter, so while typing this, I web searched and found: http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/demeterhome.html homepage http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/scents.html list of flavors http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/attitude.html this is weird -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Dec 12 08:51:53 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:51:53 -0000 Subject: HP books (British), languages, blokes and journals Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6690 Hedwig wrote: "Simon, thank you for the suggestions. I'll check out each one of them. I did notice that Amazon has the uk editions in soft back as well." All of the companies I mentioned in the post yesterday (Whsmiths, Bol and Amazon) sell the first three books in paperback, hardback, adult edition and special edition and the 4th book in hardback and special edition. Probably also in audio tapes as well! Rita wrote: "I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about learning languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language such that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the language learning areas of the brain?" I would try and argue with this slur of the British if it were not for the fact that I agree with it and said something very similar in the chat on Sunday about foreign languages and myself. A large part of the problem, IMO, is that too many people (I am very much included in this) are happy to let the foreigner speak English, and sometimes even expect them to do so, rather than make any effort to learn their language. Joywitch wrote: "Apparently I am offending his male honor by not letting him continue to go to the toy store every day to look for it. Men! Why do we put up with them?" You put up with us because we are so great. Look at it as your boyfriend making a large effort to find you what you really want, rather than a pathetic, and as you already seem to know, hopeless search for the game. Joywitch wrote: "A journal has an artsy cover and blank pages. People who wear black clothes hang out in Starbucks on Saturday nights and write existential thoughts in them." And here was me hoping to use it as some kind of sketch pad (yes I know the paper is probably not of a good enough quality for that) - it is quite useful to have some hard bound book to draw rough pictures in when you are out (before drawing them properly later when you have more time). Simon From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 12 10:23:14 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:23:14 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Science and Magic Message-ID: <01C06482.13FF5300.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6691 Maybe the magic is 'A' and part of the reason it's the magic is its indefinality (though this is obviously limited because otherwise spells would not work repeatedly, reliably (as they appear to do for the hem, compentant witch or wizard.) (I think I'm trying to agree with both of you) And Peg, Haven't read the essay (yet), can't access it from home - First thing tommorow eh? storm -----Original Message----- From: morine10 at aol.com [SMTP:morine10 at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:14 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Genetics (long; OT and then not so OT) In a message dated 12/11/00 11:46:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, naama_gat at hotmail.com writes: > To do science you need to assume that if event A causes event B then > event A will always cause event B. Without this assumption there > would be no point in making experiments. Part of the magicality of > the HP world is an inherent instability - like the chamber pots room > But, (and correct me if I'm wrong, please) doesn't Dumbledore in fact tell us that the magic regarding the appearing/disappearing chamber pots room is an A causes B event and not random. I don't know Dumbledore's exact words but it was something to the effect of......perhaps it is only visible on Tuesdays when the moon is full, or when the person has an exceptionally full bladder.......It seems to me he is saying that there is an event (A) that causes the chamber pot room to appear (B). He simply has not been able to pinpoint A. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 10:46:13 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:46:13 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP books (British), languages, blokes and journals References: Message-ID: <001a01c06428$d44f2540$0d3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6692 > Rita wrote: "I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about > learning languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language > such that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the > language learning areas of the brain?" Simon replied: >...A large part of the problem, IMO, > is that too many people (I am very much included in this) are happy to let > the foreigner speak English, and sometimes even expect them to do so, rather > than make any effort to learn their language. *** There is also the fact that English is often the language of choice for communication - especially for the young and well-travelled - so there is less need for English speakers to learn other languages. When visiting friends in Germany I found it frustrating that virtually everyone I encountered preferred to fine tune their already-fluent English rather than listen to me stumbling through German. When I did speak German, I encountered looks ranging from 'bored but tolerant' to 'barely suppressed amusement' (especially when I accidentally told someone I was a nun). There doesn't seem to be much in the way of language tuition at Hogwarts. Most British schools would teach French as a second language from age 11/12 and offer other languages to older students, but our gang appear to have avoided that (and several other standard subjects) by virtue of having a curriculum of magical subjects to get through. I don't recall anyone attempting to speak French to the Beauxbatons visitors in GoF, for example, although the accents of the foreign students were highlighted and even ridiculed. How do British witches and wizards deal with foreign languages if they don't learn them? Is there a spell that acts like the Universal Translator in "Star Trek"? Is there an accelerated-learning spell, which gives the caster linguistic prowess? If they don't bother to learn foreign languages, how do they deal with foreign-language spell books? Shouldn't they learn classical languages, at least, to gain an understanding of the meanings of spell words? Bis spaeter! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Tue Dec 12 11:46:32 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:46:32 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <3A35C270.C9D13077@wicca.net> Message-ID: <02ad01c06431$2dd91370$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6693 Please don't send any more of there, I have five copies already. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catlady" To: "HP4G" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 5:15 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors > Meredith Wilson wrote: The only other thing I'd check is what she's > eating. (snip) and if [Hermione}'s eating a bunch of bacon and sausage, > she's not Jewish, or at least not keeping Kosher. > > Anyone who is eating any of the meals in the Great Hall is not keeping > kosher, at least not according to the rules. They're not eating any > meat, as no one even claims that it was slaughtered according to kosher > laws. They're not eating any dairy products, as no one even claims that > the utensils etc used with the dairy products were never ever used with > meat. If they're picky, they're not even eating vegetables in case the > vegetable was cooked in a pot that had been used for both meat and dairy > (probably at different times). > > Personally, I have never gotten any impression that Hermione is of > Jewish ethnicity (which I am, altho' not of Jewish religion) and I > *have* gotten an impression that her parents the dentists were > Caribbean-born and she probably has some black ancestors. > > Joywitch wrote: Why are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to > learning other languages? > > I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about learning > languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language such > that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the > language learning areas of the brain? > > Heidi Tandy wrote: Also in the store, but not on the website, were the > Big Sticker Book and these 2 very cute little books which are on > keychains - one was a photo album for wallet sized pictures, and the > other was a tiny diary > > When I trudged through a WHOLE SHOPPING MALL, I found the Big Sticker > book and the little keychain books, not at any of the stores advertising > / licensing HP merchandise, but at Card Fever (kind of like a Hallmark > shop but not Hallmark). They had 3 of the little books (the other was an > address book) and the photo album's title was FAMOUS WITCHES AND WIZARDS > and I am kicking myself because I can't remember the titles of the other > two. As for the book of bumper stickers, I had looked at only the first > three stickers when Tim asked me if if included MY CHILD IS AN HONORS > STUDENT AT HOGWARTS SCHOOL so I handed it to him so he could check. He > told me that it didn't. > > I bought a Quidditch board game to send to my goddessdaughter on the > other side of the country for Yule and Tim bought her a Beanie Kid with > an *adorable* witch costume. As the game was destined to be a prezzie, I > didn't open it to see how it works. > > Voicelady told us of the flavors of Bertie Botts' Beans: the four icky > flavors in the bag are black pepper, grass (I experienced those two in > an unmarked bag a few months ago), horseradish and, believe it or not, > booger. And new flavors coming next year are dirt, mustard and > (eeuuuch) vomit. > > This reminded me of an ad I once saw for perfumes that are supposed to > be comforting smells for the wearer, which included flavors like Grass, > Dirt, Tomato, Whisky, Pipe Tobacco, Funeral Parlor.... I remembered that > the brand name was Demeter, so while typing this, I web searched and > found: > http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/demeterhome.html homepage > http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/scents.html list of flavors > http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/attitude.html this is weird > > -- > /\ /\ > + + Mews and views > >> = << from Rita Prince Winston > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' > (((' (((-((('' (((( > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 12:51:12 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:51:12 -0000 Subject: Thinking of C.S. Lewis In-Reply-To: <914fb5+gb2a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <915700+chn5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6694 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Christine " wrote: > Just another thought on the CS Lewis thing... Doesn't pensieve and > Pevensie sound pretty close?!? I think the fact that they are anagrams is probably fortuitous. It's a very short hop from pensive to penseive if you are someone who likes playing with words and puns and stuff. Some years ago one of my extended family (but I can't remember who) in response to gasps of "It's massive" at the prospect of an enormous turnstile at some stately home or another, said, "Yeah - that's right - a mass-sieve. It's sieving the masses alright." Last Saturday in Glasgow Jo Rowling was asked which of her inventions she would most like to have. She gazed pensively down at her boots and then said that the pensieve would be terribly useful, she could really do with one of those. Pam From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 12 13:49:00 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:49:00 -0000 Subject: Don't Send Dementors (song) Message-ID: <915acc+cphl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6696 DON'T SEND DEMENTORS (to the tune of Return to Sender) (Enter Cornelius Fudge, onto a darkened stage) FUDGE: There is an outlaw I'm pursuin' Goes by the name of Black So let me tell ya what I'm doin' In order to bring him back I'm now about to (lights up, revealing three Dementors) FUDGE & THREE DEMENTORS Send out Dementors! Search and destroy! Bring in sorrow! Suck out joy! 3D: Our heads are hooded! We've rotting hands! We're just the guys you need to take Black back to Azkaban (Enter HARRY POTTER & SIRIUS BLACK) HARRY: Please don't think that I'm complaintin' But while ridin' on the tracks This thing glides past me and I'm faintin' While it looks for Sirius Black We wanna tell `em . HP & SB:Don't send Dementors! They're far too grim! HP: Black didn't do it But they're after him! SB: Their heads are hooded! They've rotting hands! HP: Please don't let them take my godfather back to Azkaban! HARRY: This time I'll go to Lupin and have him learn me a little spell And if a Dementor comes back the next day, this is what I'll yell: HARRY & SIRIUS Come forth, Patronus! Please dismiss Each Dementor And its kiss! - CMC From terzarima at earthlink.net Tue Dec 12 14:05:22 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:05:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <3A35C270.C9D13077@wicca.net> Message-ID: <3A3630A2.99C9412D@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6697 "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would put on my care (if I had one) and I don't even have a kid! LOL This would be so easy to print up, I really wonder why nobody is doing it.... --Suzanne Catlady wrote: > Meredith Wilson wrote: The only other thing I'd check is what she's > eating. (snip) and if [Hermione}'s eating a bunch of bacon and sausage, > she's not Jewish, or at least not keeping Kosher. > > Anyone who is eating any of the meals in the Great Hall is not keeping > kosher, at least not according to the rules. They're not eating any > meat, as no one even claims that it was slaughtered according to kosher > laws. They're not eating any dairy products, as no one even claims that > the utensils etc used with the dairy products were never ever used with > meat. If they're picky, they're not even eating vegetables in case the > vegetable was cooked in a pot that had been used for both meat and dairy > (probably at different times). > > Personally, I have never gotten any impression that Hermione is of > Jewish ethnicity (which I am, altho' not of Jewish religion) and I > *have* gotten an impression that her parents the dentists were > Caribbean-born and she probably has some black ancestors. > > Joywitch wrote: Why are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to > learning other languages? > > I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about learning > languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language such > that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the > language learning areas of the brain? > > Heidi Tandy wrote: Also in the store, but not on the website, were the > Big Sticker Book and these 2 very cute little books which are on > keychains - one was a photo album for wallet sized pictures, and the > other was a tiny diary > > When I trudged through a WHOLE SHOPPING MALL, I found the Big Sticker > book and the little keychain books, not at any of the stores advertising > / licensing HP merchandise, but at Card Fever (kind of like a Hallmark > shop but not Hallmark). They had 3 of the little books (the other was an > address book) and the photo album's title was FAMOUS WITCHES AND WIZARDS > and I am kicking myself because I can't remember the titles of the other > two. As for the book of bumper stickers, I had looked at only the first > three stickers when Tim asked me if if included MY CHILD IS AN HONORS > STUDENT AT HOGWARTS SCHOOL so I handed it to him so he could check. He > told me that it didn't. > > I bought a Quidditch board game to send to my goddessdaughter on the > other side of the country for Yule and Tim bought her a Beanie Kid with > an *adorable* witch costume. As the game was destined to be a prezzie, I > didn't open it to see how it works. > > Voicelady told us of the flavors of Bertie Botts' Beans: the four icky > flavors in the bag are black pepper, grass (I experienced those two in > an unmarked bag a few months ago), horseradish and, believe it or not, > booger. And new flavors coming next year are dirt, mustard and > (eeuuuch) vomit. > > This reminded me of an ad I once saw for perfumes that are supposed to > be comforting smells for the wearer, which included flavors like Grass, > Dirt, Tomato, Whisky, Pipe Tobacco, Funeral Parlor.... I remembered that > the brand name was Demeter, so while typing this, I web searched and > found: > http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/demeterhome.html homepage > http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/scents.html list of flavors > http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/attitude.html this is weird > > -- > /\ /\ > + + Mews and views > >> = << from Rita Prince Winston > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' > (((' (((-((('' (((( > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From terzarima at earthlink.net Tue Dec 12 14:14:39 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:14:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP books (British), languages, blokes and journals References: <001a01c06428$d44f2540$0d3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A3632CF.D641E9F0@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6698 > There doesn't seem to be much in the way of language tuition at Hogwarts. > Most British schools would teach French as a second language from age 11/12 > and offer other languages to older students, but our gang appear to have > avoided that (and several other standard subjects) by virtue of having a > curriculum of magical subjects to get through. I don't recall anyone > attempting to speak French to the Beauxbatons visitors in GoF, for example, > although the accents of the foreign students were highlighted and even > ridiculed. At some point doesn't somebody point out Crouch's fluency in many different languages, including Goblin, Troll, and Merish? I seem to remember that Bagman is anxious to find him at the Quidditch match because he knows Bulgarian. I'm going on memory here. The accents are highlighted, maybe evn stereotyped, but I think the provincialism of some of the wizards and witches is also noted. I thought about this when Ron turned his nose up at Boullibase, and later when he said to Hermione "You can't trust these foreigners." --Suzanne From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 15:19:43 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:19:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Biography of the Year Message-ID: <20001212151943.21183.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6699 In the US, the A&E channel's show, Biography, named JK Rowling as number 6 for Biography of 2000. Here is the complete list (I could be wrong, though, with some of the numbers because Biography.com hasn't put up their list yet--it aired last night, if anyone knows the correct order, if I do have it wrong, PLEASE be nitpicky and correct me): 10) Charles Schultz 9) Cathy Freeman (first Aboriginal medalist in history by winning the 400-meter event in the Sydney Olympics) 8) Richard Hatch (Survivor winner) 7) Elian Gonzalez 6) J.K. Rowling 5) Michael J. Fox 4) Tiger Woods 3) Hillary Clinton 2) George W. Bush and Al Gore 1) Francis Collins and Craig Venter (who completed the Human Geome Project) From, Anake ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 "Look at them all, through the darkness I'm bringing. They're not sad at all. They're actually singing! They sing without juicers. They sing without blenders. They sing without flunjers, capdabblers and smendlers!"--Mr. Burns (ala The Grinch), THE SIMPSONS ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From heiditandy at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 14:41:32 2000 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:41:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Beacham book Message-ID: <20001212144132.62530.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6700 --- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > I told her that I'd looked at a copy in a bookstore > and in one page > found four blatant errors, plus I told her all the > REAL experts on > HP4GU found it to be an example of the worst kind of > academic > pretentiousness. She laughed. Wow! We're experts! yay us! btw - do you remember what the 4 errors you spotted were? heidi(coming from yahoo since her other accounts are completely defective these days) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 14:57:47 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:57:47 -0000 Subject: Bumper stickers-wasRe: Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors In-Reply-To: <3A3630A2.99C9412D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <915edb+uir1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6701 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Suzanne Burns wrote: > "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! > > Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would put on my care (if I had one) and I > don't even have a kid! LOL > > This would be so easy to print up, I really wonder why nobody is doing > it.... > > --Suzanne > How about "Get high on cleaning products- PLAY QUIDDITCH!, or "My kid went to Hogwarts, and all I got was this stupid bumper sticker", or (Neil, this one's for you) "My other car is a flying Ford Anglia", or even, "My other broom is a Firebolt" From terzarima at earthlink.net Tue Dec 12 15:05:18 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:05:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bumper stickers-wasRe: Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <915edb+uir1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A363EAE.D976B948@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6702 ROFL!! Yes!! nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Suzanne Burns > wrote: > > "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! > > > > Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would put on my care (if I had one) > and I > > don't even have a kid! LOL > > > > This would be so easy to print up, I really wonder why nobody is > doing > > it.... > > > > --Suzanne > > > How about "Get high on cleaning products- PLAY QUIDDITCH!, or > "My kid went to Hogwarts, and all I got was this stupid bumper > sticker", or > (Neil, this one's for you) "My other car is a flying Ford Anglia", or > even, > "My other broom is a Firebolt" > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 15:14:49 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:14:49 -0000 Subject: HP books (British), languages, blokes and journals In-Reply-To: <001a01c06428$d44f2540$0d3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <915fd9+9fgn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6703 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Most British schools would teach French as a second language from age 11/12 > and offer other languages to older students, This may be the root of the problem; most American schools traditionally haven't offered foreign languages until high school (ages 14-18). Now, most middle schools/junior highs offer at least one language (either French or Spanish; if two, those two), but research shows that languages are most easily learned before age 10 and very few elementary schools have foreign-language programs. They tend to be associated with public (state) schools in property-tax- rich suburbs, and very trendy private schools. Note to Brits; in most U.S. states, education funding is raised through property taxes and spent locally- attempts to pool them statewide tend to result in massive hue and cry from citizens of towns that'd lose money by pooling. Also, private, non-parochial, elementary schools in the U.S. tend to follow the very latest trends and be the most experimental of all schools; the opposite seems to be the case in Britain. Why such a difference in the wishes of parents (or at least those who are willing and able to pay for their child's elementary education?) From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Dec 12 15:37:41 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:37:41 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6704 First I have to say thanks for the tip about finding stuff at Target! I went there last night and they had the trivia game and the Quidditch card game. I still haven't found Mystery at Hogwarts, but it's the Quidditch game I was looking for. (So, those of you looking for the trivia game... have you tried Target?) I also got the big book of stickers the other day and my car now says "Member of the Ministry of Magic." And as soon as I see how long that lasts, I'll probably add more. The cool think about the book of stickers is that there are two of every design in there so you can share. :) And I would love a sticker like the one below if anyone ever printed one up! Meredith ** "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! ** ** Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would put on my care (if I ** had one) and I ** don't even have a kid! LOL ** ** This would be so easy to print up, I really wonder why ** nobody is doing ** it.... ** ** --Suzanne From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 15:31:49 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:31:49 -0000 Subject: Bitter Home Little Whinging (song) Message-ID: <915gd5+r56f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6705 Yup, I've decided to get in on the filk act; Harry Potter meets Lynyrd Skynrd. To the tune of "Sweet Home Alabama"; Ford Anglia keep on flyin' Carry me a-way from my kin. (I'm 'fraid to say!) Singin' songs about the wizard world I miss my school once again... Heard Mr.Dursley yellin' at me I heard ol' Dudley put me down. I hope the Dursleys don't remember That I can't turn them into prawns... CHORUS; Bitter home Little Whinging, Where the sky's so gray (Every day!) Bitter home Little Whinging, Glad I'm goin' far away. Now Gilderoy, he likes the Minister, 'S glad Hagrid's in Azkaban. And when he chickens out on us 'S Memory Charms just will not scan...(Not scan!) (CHORUS) Now Hogwarts School has Dumbledore, Some people may think he's a clown, (They're wrong!) But he's not just the greatest wizard, He picks me up when I'm feelin' down! (CHORUS) Bitter home Little Whinging, I'm getting sent back home to you. 'Cause Voldemort is on the march again, 'N no I won't say "You-Know-Who"! From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 12 15:37:16 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:37:16 -0600 Subject: Wand Order; JKR response References: <3A350DCE.F57DE465@dvd-films.freeuk.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20001211135250.02e21a30@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A36462C.E8B21103@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6706 Hi -- Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 06:26 PM 12/11/00 +0000, heidi tandy wrote: > > > "Lilly comes out first". > > > >What, you didn't get more details than that? > > What details are there to get? She made a boo-boo in the > narrative. Like Amanda, I'd be very curious to know if she actually wrote the revisions herself (doesn't sound like her style at all) or if she just authorizing "fixing it" and didn't want to be bothered with re-thinking the entire scene. Like Trina, I too would have preferred if she'd just come up with a creative explanation or plot device in a later book for why it worked the way it did. After all, our group came up with several plausible reasons why James might have come out first! This, in my mind, would be preferable to having such a big "goof-up" in over 3.8 million US copies alone. And, the fix just seems lame to me; the scene doesn't read right at all. Nick, I'm glad you can occasionally get us a response (even if it's a rather terse one) for simply worded questions. That could be convenient. I do intend to send Jo a hard-copy of the Mysteries & Inconsistencies FAQ (I may include some of the other FAQs as well to hopefully entice her to come visit our group occasionally). I think if she sat down & focused on some of the questions we've raised (and the theories we've come up with), it might result in more carefully thought-out responses from her. I think those chats she did that week in October in the US were rushed (the AOL one was only 30 minutes), intended for kids mainly and just didn't give her the opportunity to think through her responses. I'm of course thinking of the Hogwarts has 1000 students response (which I still don't buy for a slew of reasons). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jciesla at madbbs.com Tue Dec 12 15:53:07 2000 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:53:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <915edb+uir1@eGroups.com> References: <3A3630A2.99C9412D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001212105307.007a4820@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6707 I thought it might be more appropriate to say "My Child is a Prefect at Hogwarts." and maybe this is stretching it.. "If you think my Nimbus 2000 is great.. wait until you see my Firebolt".. oh geez, it almost sounds like a pick-up line! Hey, *grins* can anyone think of good lines we can use while scoping around the HP merchandise racks? Julia >> "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! >> >How about "Get high on cleaning products- PLAY QUIDDITCH!, or >"My kid went to Hogwarts, and all I got was this stupid bumper >sticker", or >(Neil, this one's for you) "My other car is a flying Ford Anglia", or >even, >"My other broom is a Firebolt" From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 12 16:28:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:28:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pronunciation References: Message-ID: <3A36522A.DE32C189@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6708 Simon wrote: > Rita wrote: "I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about > learning languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language > such that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the > language learning areas of the brain?" > > I would try and argue with this slur of the British if it were not for the > fact that I agree with it and said something very similar in the chat on > Sunday about foreign languages and myself. Which brings me to a related question I've been meaning to ask. In my experience (limited to other people's observations, who've been to England more) the English almost pride themselves on pronouncing foreign words in English. Examples--garage, Nazi. In American English these have a warped but faithful echo of the French and German pronunciation, but in British English the "g" and the "z" are the standard ones of English pronunciation. Sooooo, why, Caius, do you think the British would pronounce Voldemort with a French accent? I've always thought it would rhyme with "short," not "more." Does anyone have any evidence for the pronunciation that I'm missing? (audiotapes don't count; they are an interpretation, not the original.) And am I right about the British? [I've been told they mispronounced Nazi deliberately, as an insult, so perhaps it doesn't hold true for all foreign words..?] --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 12 16:40:21 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:40:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Language instruction References: <001a01c06428$d44f2540$0d3570c2@c5s910j> <3A3632CF.D641E9F0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A3654F5.52E5F037@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6709 Suzanne Burns wrote: > At some point doesn't somebody point out Crouch's fluency in many different > languages, including Goblin, Troll, and Merish? I seem to remember that Bagman > is anxious to find him at the Quidditch match because he knows Bulgarian. I'm > going on memory here. > > The accents are highlighted, maybe evn stereotyped, but I think the > provincialism of some of the wizards and witches is also noted. I thought about > this when Ron turned his nose up at Boullibase, and later when he said to > Hermione "You can't trust these foreigners." I'm thinking that the education system of the wizarding world is like the early universities, which were student-motivation-driven. So if someone wants to learn languages, they'll do it, and the school will likely help them if they ask, but it won't tell them "you must learn X." Hogwarts seems less the degree factory that most American universities are, and more a place to learn how to learn and how to deal with life. --Amanda From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Dec 12 16:43:57 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:43:57 -0000 Subject: Bumper stickers, pronunciations and foreign languages Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6710 Nplant wrote: <<>> How about "I sold my soul to Voldemort and all I got was this lousy sticker" Amanda wrote: "Which brings me to a related question I've been meaning to ask. In my experience (limited to other people's observations, who've been to England more) the English almost pride themselves on pronouncing foreign words in English. Examples--garage, Nazi. In American English these have a warped but faithful echo of the French and German pronunciation, but in British English the "g" and the "z" are the standard ones of English pronunciation." I would agree that the British in general do mispronounce Nazi (I am unsure if this is deliberately done as an insult or just by accident) but I am going to disagree over garage. Garage has moved over to the English language and, as it is not a name, I see no problem with the pronunciation. Language is a tool for communication and words, and the entire language, do metamorphose, in both spelling and pronunciation, over time. Amanda wrote: "Sooooo, why, Caius, do you think the British would pronounce Voldemort with a French accent? I've always thought it would rhyme with "short," not "more." Does anyone have any evidence for the pronunciation that I'm missing?" This is interesting. When I first read the books there was no question in my mind. Voldemort should be pronounced to rhyme with more. I never, until I got on this group, thought about the possibility of any other pronunciation. Neil wrote: "I don't recall anyone attempting to speak French to the Beauxbatons visitors in GoF, for example, although the accents of the foreign students were highlighted and even ridiculed." Hermione had been to France, in the summer holiday before their third year. She strikes me as someone who would make the effort to learn a foreign language if she visited somewhere, but there is no indication that she knows anything about the language (apart from being able to recognize it as she works out that the students at the World Cup go to Beuxbatons). All this interest in languages left me with the following question: Did Hermione make any attempt to learn any Bulgarian (or whatever language Krum uses)? If you were going to go out with someone from another country then it would be courteous to them to learn their language (even if they can speak your language well). Neil wrote: "There is also the fact that English is often the language of choice for communication - especially for the young and well-travelled - so there is less need for English speakers to learn other languages. When visiting friends in Germany I found it frustrating that virtually everyone I encountered preferred to fine tune their already-fluent English rather than listen to me stumbling through German. When I did speak German, I encountered looks ranging from 'bored but tolerant' to 'barely suppressed amusement' (especially when I accidentally told someone I was a nun)." One of the most amusing conversations I have had this year was with a Polish friend of a friend of mine who was in France. He spoke nearly no English; I speak no Polish, little French and a small amount of German. It really highlighted to me how bad my foreign language skills are. I still have plans of learning some language or other, but will probably end up going for something silly like Latin (winks at everyone who was still in the chat on Sunday when that came up). Simon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 17:10:25 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:10:25 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pronunciation (OT) References: <3A36522A.DE32C189@texas.net> Message-ID: <000801c0645e$8120fca0$483770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6711 Amanda said: > Which brings me to a related question I've been meaning to ask. In my experience > (limited to other people's observations, who've been to England more) the > English almost pride themselves on pronouncing foreign words in English. > Examples--garage, Nazi. In American English these have a warped but faithful > echo of the French and German pronunciation, but in British English the "g" and > the "z" are the standard ones of English pronunciation. That is true of many words imported to British English, but it is often more out of ignorance or linguistic evolution than national pride. 'Garage' would often be pronounced 'garridge', but Nazi would, I think, be said as 'nartsee' by most people (not 'nazzy', as I think you're suggesting). > Sooooo, why, Caius, do you think the British would pronounce Voldemort with a > French accent? I've always thought it would rhyme with "short," not "more." Does > anyone have any evidence for the pronunciation that I'm missing? (audiotapes > don't count; they are an interpretation, not the original.) And am I right about > the British? [I've been told they mispronounced Nazi deliberately, as an insult, > so perhaps it doesn't hold true for all foreign words..?] Personally, I would say Voldemort without the 't' if I thought he was a Frenchman, but as I know it is an anagram of Englishman Tom Riddle's full name, I say it as Voldemort with the 't'. You are right about *some* British people, but everyone is different. Those people (particularly the older generation) who have not studied languages might say foreign words as if they were English ones without thinking, as they have no other reference point; on the other hand, those who have studied languages at advanced level would find it hard not to use the correct pronunciation. Some people are just too stubborn to change though: a friend of my father's loves taking holidays in Lille and he still refers to it, unashamedly, as 'Lily', and there may well be an element of deliberate mispronunciation due to xenophobia in some cases. Note: I'm assuming you were talking about British people, not English people only as you implied in your first paragraph. The two terms aren't interchangeable (ask a Scot if they hail from England and you'll find out!). Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From dorband at uwp.edu Tue Dec 12 18:08:49 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:08:49 -0000 Subject: Wand Order Story for Salon.com Message-ID: <915pjh+hofh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6712 Greetings all, I am posting this in order to give all a chance to sound off regarding the wand order issue. I spoke with this reporter, Kera, this morning and invited her to come see us here at the group. (She's probably trying to set herself up right now so she can read some of the messages). Anyway, some brief background: I went to the Salon.com site last week to see if anything else on the wand order thing had been written, since they had a story on it back in August (?). I wrote a letter-to-the-editor (since when do they read and follow-up on those things?), and lo' and behold she contacted me. I advised her that this group was the best source of HP info. She should be here anytime. I spoke with Kera this morning and I get the impression that they (Salon.com) *really* want to get the scoop on this issue. The email that she sent me appears below: I am a reporter for Salon magazine online, and am doing a piece on the correction that was made in the 9th printing of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I realize you're probably snowbound, but would it be possible to chat tomorrow (Tuesday) morning about Rowling's error, the subsequent correction, and the lack of press coverage on it thus far? I can be reached via this email address, or 718 622 5426. I look forward to hearing from you. Best, Kera Bolonik From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Dec 12 18:37:28 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:37:28 +0000 Subject: Bumper stickers References: <915edb+uir1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A367068.9D8DB6C0@dvd-films.freeuk.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6713 > > "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! > > Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would put on my care (if I had one) > and I don't even have a kid! LOL > > This would be so easy to print up, I really wonder why nobody is > doing it.... Well, could have something to do with Hogwarts(tm). > How about "Get high on cleaning products- PLAY QUIDDITCH!, Nice... but that should be Quidditch(tm) > or "My kid went to Hogwarts, and all I got was this stupid bumper > sticker", Much nicer... though remember that (tm) after Hogwarts! > or > (Neil, this one's for you) "My other car is a flying Ford Anglia" Now that one I think we can have... will have to look up to see if Ford has registered Ford Anglia as a trademark. They probably have, but they might give permission, you never know. > , or even, "My other broom is a Firebolt" Have to look that one up... think we are allowed it. Probably best if we register that phrase as a trademark - then Warner Bros can't use it. Nick. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Dec 12 19:51:48 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 19:51:48 -0000 Subject: Bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <3A367068.9D8DB6C0@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <915vkl+m98p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6714 Nothing in this post contains legal advice! --- Nick Mitchell wrote: > Now that one I think we can have... will have to > look up to see if Ford has > registered Ford Anglia as a trademark. They > probably have, but they might > give permission, you never know. They actually don't have a registration in the US - I didn't check the UK, but they probably would have a registration for ANGLIA there. I don't think the car was ever marketed under that name in the US > > , or even, "My other broom is a Firebolt" > > Have to look that one up... think we are allowed it. > Probably best if we > register that phrase as a trademark - then Warner > Bros can't use it. Actually, WB hasn't filed a trademark application for FIREBOLT (although they have for NIMBUS 2000) and I don't acutally think they can, because the Firebolt doesn't come up until Book 3, and I don't think that WB has the rights to anything in the books, other than 1 & 2 - for example, they have filed applications for HARRY POTTER, DUMBLEDORE and DRACO MALFOY (sorry cassandra - you can't get a trademark (TRADEMARK!) registration for DRACO MALFOY for leather pants), but not for SIRIUS BLACK, REMUS LUPIN or PETER PETTIGREW since they don't appear in books 1-2 (although they could probably argue that the should get to register sirius because he is mentioned in Book 1, Chapter 1) Therefore, without giving legal advice, I can surmise that anyone who created one of these proposed bumper stickers on their computer (get out that Full Page Sticky Paper, guys!) for their own car (or bike, or scooter) would not be violating trademark law, because they wouldn't be using a WB trademark for commercial purposes - but anyone who created one which they gave or sold to someone else would be committing a trademark infringement. But none of this was legal advice, ok? From SHENmagic at aol.com Tue Dec 12 20:13:25 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:13:25 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 317 Message-ID: <50.e98f140.2767e0e5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6715 Simon wrote: >Did >Hermione make any attempt to learn any Bulgarian (or whatever language >Krum >uses)? If you were going to go out with someone from another country then >it >would be courteous to them to learn their language (even if they can speak I imagine that there is a charm for speaking in a language, similar to Ludo Bagman's "Sonorus" for voice amplification, that enables a witch or wizard to converse. Perhaps some folks can tolerate many charms or spells (such as very stiff Barty Crouch, sr packed with hundreds). I imagine that a speaker would retain the (can't think of the word- nuances?) accent of their native land, or the more skilled they are, the less accent. Aylihael ? We are the ones who chase pixies, Run with the unicorns, Dance with the faeries, Sing with the sirens, Soar with the phoenixes, And swim with the mermaids. We are the ones who believe in the Unbelievable. We are the ones who dare to dream.? ~author unknown From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 20:37:16 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:37:16 -0000 Subject: Kashrut / Languages (ot) In-Reply-To: <3A35C270.C9D13077@wicca.net> Message-ID: <91629s+les8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6716 > Joywitch wrote: Why are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to > learning other languages? > > I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about learning > languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language such > that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the > language learning areas of the brain? I don't know about the British, but I'd say for most of us (U.S.) Americans, learning English as a first language seems to do more damage to the humility areas of the brain than the language-learning areas. I was a grad instructor in Begining French in the midwest for a couple of years, and I can't tell you how many of my students grumbled that it was rediculous to have a foreign language requirement, and I'm ashamed to mention some of the reasons they gave, but the gist was either everyone already speaks English, they will if they want to make any money, or they simply should, since it's the 'most important language in the world'. I was 14 before I got the opportunity in school to begin learning another language. I think English speakers are just as capable of learning languages - it's just not emphasized as important. At least that's what I've observed here in the midwest. I hope I didn't offend anyone - it's just my take on things. ~kimberly From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Dec 12 21:19:11 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:19:11 -0800 Subject: Bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <3A363EAE.D976B948@earthlink.net> References: <915edb+uir1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001212120008.032931c0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6717 For Hermione: "I'd rather be reading" For Hagrid: "I brake for hideous ferocious monsters" For Snape: "Harry Potter stopped the Dark Lord and all I got was this lousy teaching job!" For Lucius Malfoy: "My kid can hex your Honors student" For Moody: "If you come any closer, I'll exorcise you!" For Moaning Myrtle: "Your toilet or mine?" And for an election year: "Say 'Fudge!' to Fudge -- Hermione Granger for MoM!" -- Dave From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Dec 12 21:43:34 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:43:34 -0000 Subject: JKR Delays Investiture Message-ID: <916666+6dgq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6718 J.K. Rowling Delays Investiture LONDON (AP) - Harry Potter (news - web sites) author J.K. Rowling (news - web sites) took a rain check Monday for her investiture by Queen Elizabeth II (news - web sites) as an Officer of the Order of British Empire for contributions to children's literature. Rowling, a single mother who lives in Edinburgh, Scotland, sent regrets for the Tuesday honor because her 7-year-old daughter, Jessica, was ill, a Buckingham Palace spokeswoman said. ``We of course understand why J.K. Rowling has had to postpone her investiture,'' the spokeswoman said. ``These things happen occasionally and we will arrange another investiture date when it is convenient for her.'' From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Dec 12 20:58:25 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:58:25 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <3A35C270.C9D13077@wicca.net> Message-ID: <028301c06485$3ad8f960$c5c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6719 Isn't Lavender Brown Carribean? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Catlady Till: HP4G Skickat: den 12 december 2000 07:15 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors Meredith Wilson wrote: The only other thing I'd check is what she's eating. (snip) and if [Hermione}'s eating a bunch of bacon and sausage, she's not Jewish, or at least not keeping Kosher. Anyone who is eating any of the meals in the Great Hall is not keeping kosher, at least not according to the rules. They're not eating any meat, as no one even claims that it was slaughtered according to kosher laws. They're not eating any dairy products, as no one even claims that the utensils etc used with the dairy products were never ever used with meat. If they're picky, they're not even eating vegetables in case the vegetable was cooked in a pot that had been used for both meat and dairy (probably at different times). Personally, I have never gotten any impression that Hermione is of Jewish ethnicity (which I am, altho' not of Jewish religion) and I *have* gotten an impression that her parents the dentists were Caribbean-born and she probably has some black ancestors. Joywitch wrote: Why are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to learning other languages? I've heard that the British are almost equally pathetic about learning languages. Perhaps there is something about the English language such that learning English as a first language does permanent damage to the language learning areas of the brain? Heidi Tandy wrote: Also in the store, but not on the website, were the Big Sticker Book and these 2 very cute little books which are on keychains - one was a photo album for wallet sized pictures, and the other was a tiny diary When I trudged through a WHOLE SHOPPING MALL, I found the Big Sticker book and the little keychain books, not at any of the stores advertising / licensing HP merchandise, but at Card Fever (kind of like a Hallmark shop but not Hallmark). They had 3 of the little books (the other was an address book) and the photo album's title was FAMOUS WITCHES AND WIZARDS and I am kicking myself because I can't remember the titles of the other two. As for the book of bumper stickers, I had looked at only the first three stickers when Tim asked me if if included MY CHILD IS AN HONORS STUDENT AT HOGWARTS SCHOOL so I handed it to him so he could check. He told me that it didn't. I bought a Quidditch board game to send to my goddessdaughter on the other side of the country for Yule and Tim bought her a Beanie Kid with an *adorable* witch costume. As the game was destined to be a prezzie, I didn't open it to see how it works. Voicelady told us of the flavors of Bertie Botts' Beans: the four icky flavors in the bag are black pepper, grass (I experienced those two in an unmarked bag a few months ago), horseradish and, believe it or not, booger. And new flavors coming next year are dirt, mustard and (eeuuuch) vomit. This reminded me of an ad I once saw for perfumes that are supposed to be comforting smells for the wearer, which included flavors like Grass, Dirt, Tomato, Whisky, Pipe Tobacco, Funeral Parlor.... I remembered that the brand name was Demeter, so while typing this, I web searched and found: http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/demeterhome.html homepage http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/scents.html list of flavors http://www.fp1.com/shopping/demeter/attitude.html this is weird -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 12 22:20:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:20:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Scots References: <3A36522A.DE32C189@texas.net> <000801c0645e$8120fca0$483770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A36A4B6.93751831@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6720 Neil Ward wrote: > Note: I'm assuming you were talking about British people, not English people > only as you implied in your first paragraph. The two terms aren't > interchangeable (ask a Scot if they hail from England and you'll find out!). Sorry. This reminds me of a story my husband tells about the Polish pilots who were flying out of England in WWII. Some Scots were a little hazy about just exactly where the Poles were from, and said, "So basically, you're really just Russians, right?" To which the smiling Poles replied, "Yeah, just like you're really Englishmen." It was eventually settled.... --Amanda From eliasberg at ioc.net Tue Dec 12 22:29:19 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:29:19 -0000 Subject: Bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001212120008.032931c0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <9168rv+k1ba@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6721 Those are awesome! From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 12 22:18:46 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:18:46 -0600 Subject: pronunciations References: Message-ID: <3A36A446.AA2D9D02@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6722 Hi -- Simon wrote: > Amanda wrote: "Sooooo, why, Caius, do you think the British would > pronounce Voldemort with a French accent? I've always thought it would > rhyme with "short," not "more." Does anyone have any evidence for the > pronunciation that I'm missing?" > > This is interesting. When I first read the books there was no question > in my mind. Voldemort should be pronounced to rhyme with more. I > never, until I got on this group, thought about the possibility of any > other pronunciation. Me too, Simon! I never even considered pronouncing it to rhyme with "short." And, of course, Jim Dale pronounces it to rhyme with "more," which reinforced that pronounciation in my mind. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 12 22:30:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:30:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Kashrut / Languages (ot) References: <91629s+les8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A36A71A.4DB2E810@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6723 Kimberly wrote: > I don't know about the British, but I'd say for most of us (U.S.) > Americans, learning English as a first language seems to do more > damage to the humility areas of the brain than the language-learning > areas. > > I was a grad instructor in Begining French in the midwest for a couple > of years, and I can't tell you how many of my students grumbled that > it was rediculous to have a foreign language requirement, and I'm > ashamed to mention some of the reasons they gave, but the gist was > either everyone already speaks English, they will if they want to make > any money, or they simply should, since it's the 'most important > language in the world'. Whatever they perceived as the reason they didn't want to learn, there is a certain reality that unless you live up North, near Quebec, or down here near the border to Mexico, you probably will never need or use a second language. In Europe, homelands where other languages are spoken are much, much closer than in the U.S. and it's much more relevant. Now, if one is from a household where another language is spoken, or if one is lucky enough to have the funds to globe-trot or move to another country, then multiple languages are tremendously useful. But for the majority of Americans, they really will never need them. The argument that it broadens the horizons and opens other windows of perception (I follow Worf's hypothesis) carries little weight in our minimum-education, minimum-effort attitudes. --Amanda, Texas native who always wondered why they taught Spain's Spanish and not Mexico's at school, and who can gesture fluently in Polish. From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 22:43:59 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:43:59 -0000 Subject: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <3A36A446.AA2D9D02@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9169nf+evuq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6724 I always thought Voldemort would be pronounced "Voldemort" because I saw a French connection. My younger child, who has only just started French at school, pronounced it with the t at the end. Jo Rowling pronounces it with a t at the end as well. Pam From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 22:45:48 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:45:48 -0000 Subject: Ford Angila, was Re: Bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <915vkl+m98p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9169qs+r77@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6725 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > Nothing in this post contains legal advice! > > > > --- Nick Mitchell wrote: > > > Now that one I think we can have... will have to > > look up to see if Ford has > > registered Ford Anglia as a trademark. They > > probably have, but they might > > give permission, you never know. > > They actually don't have a registration in the US - I didn't check > the UK, but they probably would have a registration for ANGLIA there. > I don't think the car was ever marketed under that name in the US Yes it was- from 1948 to 1967 (the model the Weasleys have was introduced in 1959, late enough to be called a 1960 model in US). I have the ads to prove it, but I won't be able to use the library scanner 'till after the holidays :( From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Tue Dec 12 22:48:32 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:48:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Kashrut / Languages (ot) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6726 I will say as a high school 4th year French student that I believe language is an important aspect to education. UNfortunately, many people feel it unnecessary, because also living in Texas, it does no good to know another language because English is primarily used, and despite a large Mexican-American population, no one speaks Spanish. Also, the teachers are hard to come by and so many times a language can be spoiled by a bad teacher, or a, well to be frank, nut job. Despite 4 years of french background, I feel as if I am only on an advanced first year level. While yes, I take French because I am required, I wish more people had great oppurtunities of a European experience to learn a language because it is a dying art. Stephanie....who realizes that really didnt serve a point, but i dont get to respond to nearly enough email >Whatever they perceived as the reason they didn't want to learn, >there is >a certain reality that unless you live up North, near >Quebec, or down here >near the border to Mexico, you probably will >never need or use a second >language. In Europe, homelands where other >languages are spoken are much, >much closer than in the U.S. and it's >much more relevant. > >Now, if one is from a household where another language is spoken, or >if >one is lucky enough to have the funds to globe-trot or move to >another >country, then multiple languages are tremendously useful. But >for the >majority of Americans, they really will never need them. The >argument that >it broadens the horizons and opens other windows of >perception (I follow >Worf's hypothesis) carries little weight in our >minimum-education, >minimum-effort attitudes. > >--Amanda, Texas native who always wondered why they taught Spain's Spanish >and not Mexico's at school, and who can gesture fluently in Polish. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Dec 12 22:53:46 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:53:46 -0000 Subject: Kashrut / Languages (ot) In-Reply-To: <3A36A71A.4DB2E810@texas.net> Message-ID: <916a9q+ne33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6727 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > --Amanda, Texas native who always wondered why they taught Spain's Spanish > and not Mexico's at school, and who can gesture fluently in Polish. I'm from Vermont and I always wondered why we learned "Parisian" French in school and not Quebecois. ---Noel, who doesn't get up to Montreal nearly as often as he should. From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Dec 12 22:20:32 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 22:20:32 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <3A35C270.C9D13077@wicca.net> <3A3630A2.99C9412D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000001c0648f$02b52220$d1c57ad5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6728 Actually the one I want for my old scrapheap is 'My other broomstick is a Firebolt'... Alix ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne Burns To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors > "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! > > Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would put on my care (if I had one) and I > don't even have a kid! LOL > > This would be so easy to print up, I really wonder why nobody is doing > it.... > From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Dec 12 23:00:40 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:00:40 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <9169nf+evuq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <031901c06491$9c330a00$c5c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6729 I understand it as a mixture of languages such as vol=full de=of mort=death. I wonder if this was intended by the author? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Pam Scruton Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 12 december 2000 23:43 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations I always thought Voldemort would be pronounced "Voldemort" because I saw a French connection. My younger child, who has only just started French at school, pronounced it with the t at the end. Jo Rowling pronounces it with a t at the end as well. Pam eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Dec 12 23:12:07 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:12:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Languages Message-ID: <031a01c06491$9d367040$c5c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6730 ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Sara Ludwig Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 13 december 2000 00:06 ?mne: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Kashrut / Languages (ot) I think that's why lots of years ago - more than 20 - the educated had the idea that culture, literature etc. was of European origin and hence all non European variations of any language were considered being lesser dialects. Teachers were supposed to present the Real Thing, I think. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: nlpnt at yahoo.com Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 12 december 2000 23:53 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Kashrut / Languages (ot) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > --Amanda, Texas native who always wondered why they taught Spain's Spanish > and not Mexico's at school, and who can gesture fluently in Polish. I'm from Vermont and I always wondered why we learned "Parisian" French in school and not Quebecois. ---Noel, who doesn't get up to Montreal nearly as often as he should. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From duo at dangerous-minds.com Tue Dec 12 23:36:45 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:36:45 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Delurker, somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <912vk8+p0d7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6731 >Am I the only one frustrated by the fact that so many people from non- >English speaking countries, who likely learned English as a second >(or third or fourth) language, seem to have much better English >writing skills than many (maybe most) Americans I meet? And that my >own skills in other languages could be described, at best, as >acceptable (but only if the describer was in a generous mood)? Why >are we Americans so pathetic when it comes to learning other >languages? (Excuse the OT posting, but Nathans perfect English really >made me feel stupid.) *blush* Would it make you guys feel any better if I mentioned my grades in elementary national language were so abysmal that I had to speak in it and nothing but every Saturday for two years? Sheer torture, but I lived through it. ^_^ Nathan From duo at dangerous-minds.com Tue Dec 12 23:36:47 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:36:47 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Genetics (long; OT and then not so OT) In-Reply-To: <23.4ca241c.2766e3d3@aol.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6732 >But, (and correct me if I'm wrong, please) doesn't Dumbledore in >fact tell us >that the magic regarding the appearing/disappearing chamber pots >room is an A >causes B event and not random. I don't know Dumbledore's exact >words but it >was something to the effect of......perhaps it is only visible on Tuesdays >when the moon is full, or when the person has an exceptionally full >bladder.......It seems to me he is saying that there is an event (A) that >causes the chamber pot room to appear (B). He simply has not been able to >pinpoint A. Or he was pulling his visitors' collective legs. From joym999 at aol.com Tue Dec 12 23:31:20 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:31:20 -0000 Subject: Another Daily Prophet article Message-ID: <916cg8+i29d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6733 *************** THE DAILY PROPHET ****************** HEDGE: MINISTRY MAY INTERFERE by Joywitch M. Curmudgeon, Daily Prophet's U.S. correspondent SALEM, MA, Dec. 12 ? U.S. Minister of Magic Ralph Q. Hedge today announced that the Ministry might assist the U.S. muggle government in finding some resolution to the month-old election controversy. Minister Hedge stated that "As every witch and wizard knows, we have a strict policy of non-interference in muggle affairs. However, in extreme cases the Ministry does sometimes comply with requests from the muggle government. This may be one of those extreme cases. A majority of the wizarding community seems to feel that intervention is necessary, due to the muggle's inability to solve this election dilemma. After all, American witches and wizards have to live here in the U.S. too, and none of us benefit from all this confusion." Hedge denied that his decision to consider intervention was in any way a reversal of the Ministry's previous statements of non- interference, nor was the decision influenced by political partisanship or any lobbying efforts. "Any intervention will occur solely because of the seriousness of the situation," Hedge insisted, "and the fact that I have been barraged with owls and Howlers demanding that the Ministry do something about the muggle election disaster has nothing to do with this decision. However, I wish that stupid donkey that stands on my kitchen table braying COUNT EVERY VOTE would go away, I have tried every spell I know and it is driving me nuts, I mean I understand that passions are running high right now and I hope this move will assuage people's feelings." Hedge confirmed that the muggle government had, in fact, asked for Ministry assistance, but stated that, "They are constantly asking for help, but we usually ignore them. In fact, every four years, as soon as they find out about our existence, the muggle presidents bombard us with requests for solutions to all their problems. This last president is the worst. You could populate a trailer park with the women he has tried to get us to disapparate, and I've forgotten how many times he's asked to have a Memory Charm put on his wife." It is unclear what, exactly, the Ministry of Magic would do to intervene, but one of the measures under consideration, according to Hedge, is to send a delegation of house elves to help with the Florida recounts, should the muggles decide to resume them. Several house elves have already volunteered to help, including Fuzzy, Hedge's own elf. Fuzzy, who spoke to reporters from his master's house in West Palm Beach, Florida, said, "Fuzzy is hoping very much to help. Fuzzy is very mad at muggles, sir, ever since my master was so upset after he accidently voted for Buchanan because of stupid muggle butterfly ballot." Another house elf who volunteered to help with the recount is Henson family house elf Count Von Count, who is familiar to wizards and muggles alike from his successful acting career on muggle television. "I vould luv to help. I luv to count. Vun hanging chad, two hanging chad...," the Count told reporters. Hedge's announcement was applauded by Muggle Affairs Directorate (MAD) Chairman Jack Weasley, who has long argued for more Ministry involvement in muggle affairs. However, a dissenting voice came from Jim-Bob Malfoy, the Texas wizard oil baron and president of the Slytherin Society. "There is no reason for the Ministry to intervene. It is clear that George W. Bush, who, in fact, I voted for, will win the election. I don't see any argument for the Ministry of Magic or the Florida Supreme Court or anyone else to stick their nose in where it doesn't belong." Malfoy, who was attending the annual Snake of the Year award ceremony, which the Slytherin Society this year awarded to Ralph Nader, added, "Just leave this election to us." From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 12 23:37:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:37:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another Daily Prophet article References: <916cg8+i29d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A36B6C1.33F14878@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6734 Ah, Joywitch, thanks for the lift. And please remind the good Mr. Hedge that he's lucky it's a donkey on his table--it could have been an elephant... --Amanda Joywitch wrote: > *************** THE DAILY PROPHET ****************** > > HEDGE: MINISTRY MAY INTERFERE > > by Joywitch M. Curmudgeon, Daily Prophet's U.S. correspondent > > SALEM, MA, Dec. 12 U.S. Minister of Magic Ralph Q. Hedge today > announced that the Ministry might assist the U.S. muggle government > in finding some resolution to the month-old election controversy. > Minister Hedge stated that "As every witch and wizard knows, we have > a strict policy of non-interference in muggle affairs. However, in > extreme cases the Ministry does sometimes comply with requests from > the muggle government. This may be one of those extreme cases. A > majority of the wizarding community seems to feel that intervention > is necessary, due to the muggle's inability to solve this election > dilemma. After all, American witches and wizards have to live here > in the U.S. too, and none of us benefit from all this confusion." > > Hedge denied that his decision to consider intervention was in any > way a reversal of the Ministry's previous statements of non- > interference, nor was the decision influenced by political > partisanship or any lobbying efforts. "Any intervention will occur > solely because of the seriousness of the situation," Hedge insisted, > "and the fact that I have been barraged with owls and Howlers > demanding that the Ministry do something about the muggle election > disaster has nothing to do with this decision. However, I wish that > stupid donkey that stands on my kitchen table braying COUNT EVERY > VOTE would go away, I have tried every spell I know and it is driving > me nuts, I mean I understand that passions are running high right now > and I hope this move will assuage people's feelings." > > Hedge confirmed that the muggle government had, in fact, asked for > Ministry assistance, but stated that, "They are constantly asking for > help, but we usually ignore them. In fact, every four years, as soon > as they find out about our existence, the muggle presidents bombard > us with requests for solutions to all their problems. This last > president is the worst. You could populate a trailer park with the > women he has tried to get us to disapparate, and I've forgotten how > many times he's asked to have a Memory Charm put on his wife." > > It is unclear what, exactly, the Ministry of Magic would do to > intervene, but one of the measures under consideration, according to > Hedge, is to send a delegation of house elves to help with the > Florida recounts, should the muggles decide to resume them. Several > house elves have already volunteered to help, including Fuzzy, > Hedge's own elf. Fuzzy, who spoke to reporters from his master's > house in West Palm Beach, Florida, said, "Fuzzy is hoping very much > to help. Fuzzy is very mad at muggles, sir, ever since my master was > so upset after he accidently voted for Buchanan because of stupid > muggle butterfly ballot." > > Another house elf who volunteered to help with the recount is Henson > family house elf Count Von Count, who is familiar to wizards and > muggles alike from his successful acting career on muggle > television. "I vould luv to help. I luv to count. Vun hanging > chad, two hanging chad...," the Count told reporters. > > Hedge's announcement was applauded by Muggle Affairs Directorate > (MAD) Chairman Jack Weasley, who has long argued for more Ministry > involvement in muggle affairs. However, a dissenting voice came from > Jim-Bob Malfoy, the Texas wizard oil baron and president of the > Slytherin Society. "There is no reason for the Ministry to > intervene. It is clear that George W. Bush, who, in fact, I voted > for, will win the election. I don't see any argument for the > Ministry of Magic or the Florida Supreme Court or anyone else to > stick their nose in where it doesn't belong." Malfoy, who was > attending the annual Snake of the Year award ceremony, which the > Slytherin Society this year awarded to Ralph Nader, added, "Just > leave this election to us." > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From relliott at jvlnet.com Wed Dec 13 00:00:13 2000 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:00:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <9169nf+evuq@eGroups.com> <031901c06491$9c330a00$c5c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <001401c06497$ab923920$1ab191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 6735 I have read several times that the connection with the "mort" in Voldermort is meant to be a connection with "death". In addition, the HP text recorded books have Voldermort without the "t" as well as a pronunciation guide from scholastic. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Ludwig To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 5:00 PM Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations > I understand it as a mixture of languages such as vol=full de=of mort=death. I wonder if this was intended by the author? > catrina > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Frn: Pam Scruton > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 12 december 2000 23:43 > mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations > > > I always thought Voldemort would be pronounced "Voldemort" because I > saw a French connection. My younger child, who has only just started > French at school, pronounced it with the t at the end. > > Jo Rowling pronounces it with a t at the end as well. > > Pam > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From Ellimist15 at aol.com Tue Dec 12 23:57:42 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 18:57:42 EST Subject: Bumper stickers, pronunciations and foreign languages Message-ID: <74.5d298cd.27681577@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6736 Simon said: (HA!) << All this interest in languages left me with the following question: Did Hermione make any attempt to learn any Bulgarian (or whatever language Krum uses)? If you were going to go out with someone from another country then it would be courteous to them to learn their language (even if they can speak your language well). >> Perhaps she used a polyglot potion... And I've always pronounced "Voldemort" to rhyme with "more". Pronouncing the "t" at the the end is awkward in my opinion. Ellie From maxine19 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 00:11:30 2000 From: maxine19 at hotmail.com (maxine19 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:11:30 -0000 Subject: Book 5 title Message-ID: <916eri+hlan@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6737 I've heard that the new Book 5 title is Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix is this true??? From john at walton.to Wed Dec 13 01:15:55 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:15:55 +0000 Subject: Chapter 23: The Yule Ball Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6738 ======================================== Chapter 23: "The Yule Ball" or "Angst 'R' Us" pp 403-432 (US Hardback) ======================================== Brief Summary: Christmas happens and everyone has issues about who's going with whom to the Yule Ball. Favorite Quote: "I 'ave nevair been more insulted in my life! 'Alf-giant? Moi? I 'ave -- I 'ave big bones!" --Madame Maxime, p 429 Illustration: Deer standing on hedge in front of fountain. [Very Turner Prize, eh? ;)] Commentary from my Evil Twin will be interspersed in ((double parentheses)) ======================================== = LONG SUMMARY = Oh, the fodder this chapter gave for the teenybopper HP fics on FFN. Joy, rapture. Oh, JKR, what will you leave us this time? ::winks at Carole:: Time passes, term ends, and the Weasleys are still getting people with their WIzard Wheezes. It appears that the majority of Gryffindor (and all its male fourth years) have remained at Hogwarts. Any theories as to why they all stay this year? ((Apart from an attack of Plot Necessity?)) Fleur whinges about ze "'eavy 'Ogwarts food" -- Hermione is unsympathetic. It turns out that La Granger already has a partner for the ball, and that, when Madam Pomfrey shrunk her teeth after Malfoy's prank earlier in the book, Hermione let her keep going until they shrunk to the size of everyone else's teeth -- her dentist parents don't know yet, though. Sirius writes to Harry congratulating him on gettinng past the Horntail yet warning him not to get complacent. While Hermione recommends that he get on with trying to decipher the egg (Task 2), Ron is less vigilant. Christmas happens and the Yule Ball takes place with much ado. (See the Yule Ball section) = CHRISTMAS = Dobby gives Harry a pair of knitted odd socks. Harry gives Dobby a pair of Uncle Vernon's old ones. The Dursleys (boo, hiss) give Harry a single tissue ("an all-time low"). Hermione gives Harry a book about Quidditch. Sirius gives Harry a penknife. Hagrid gives Harry a box of sweets. Molly Weasley gives Harry a sweater and mince pies. Harry gives Ron a Chudley Cannons hat. Ron gives Harry a bag of Dungbombs. Ron gives Dobby a pair of violet socks and his Weasley Jumper. = THE YULE BALL = Partners: Harry goes with Parvati Patil (G) Ron goes with her sister Padma (R). Draco goes with Pansy Parkinson Fleur goes with Roger Davies (H?) Cedric (H) goes with Cho (R) * Harry WANTS to go with Cho * Ron WANTS to go with Hermione Much teen angst occurs, --er--ing, --umm--ing and all. The Patil sisters are described as "the best-looking girls in the year" by Dean. IMHO it's a bit saccharine that neither Harry nor Ron are satisfied with this. Ron wanted Hermione and Harry wanted Cho. However (and here's the clincher), "Krum was...accompanied by a pretty girl in blue robes Harry didn't know." The Champions get their own table, and Harry and Parvati leave Ron and Padma behind. And so, in a sudden rainstorm of similes, Harry realises that the pretty girl is Hermione: "It was Hermione. But she didn't look like Hermione at all. She had done something with her hair; it was no longer bushy but sleek and shiny, and twisted up into an elegant knot at the back of her head. She was wearing robes made of a floaty, periwinkle-blue material, and she was holding herself differently, somehow -- or maybe it was merely the absence of the twenty or so books she usually had slung over her back. She was also smiling -- rather nervously, it was true -- but the reduction in the size of her front teeth was more noticeable than ever; Harry couldn't understand how he hadn't spotted it before." (...) "Parvati was gazing at Hermione in unflattering disbelief. She wasn't the only one either; when the doors to the Great Hall opened, Krum's fan club from the library stalked past, throwing Hermione looks of deepest loathing. Pansy Parkinson gaped at her as she walked by with Malfoy, and even he didn't seem to be able to find an insult to throw at her. Ron, however, walked right past Hermione without looking at her." ((Ooh, naughty Ron. I sense a Jerry Springer moment about to happen. Serious question, though -- does Hermione's newfound appearance change our opinion of her?)) The Great Hall has been fantastically decorated, but Harry doesn't really notice this as he's trying not to look a fool by falling over. The Champions (and partners) are up at the top table with the teachers, Bagman and Percy Weasley (standing in for Barty Crouch). Question: Percy Weasley tells us that "Mr Crouch isn't well, not well at all." Does this point us to any later conclusions about Crouch? Question: While being served at Top Table, Hermione isn't thinking about SPEW. Do we reconsider our opinion of her and her commitment because of this? Hermione teaches Viktor how to say her name (Her-my-oh-knee), but he can only say "Herm-own-ninny". ((Yes, that's how it's pronounced, Her-MY-oh-knee. Not HERmee-own, Herme-OWN-ee or anything else!)) The scrumptious food finished, the Weird Sisters (who we've already heard about from the Wizarding Wireless Network in a previous book) set up and play. Harry and Ron basically ignore Parvati and Padma (to shouts of joy from all the Ha/He and He/Ro [and, for that matter, Ha/Ro] shippers), and Ron has issues with the fact that Herm-own-ninny is "fraternizing with the enemy". His hypocrisy is underlined when Hermione points out that he has a Krum model on his bedside ((But how does Her-my-oh-knee know this? ::nudge nudge, wink wink::)). Much bad blood is exchanged between Hermione and Ron, to which Harry doesn't contribute much. We also see Gred and Forge "accost"ing Ludo Bagman, to Percy's irritation. Do we have any inkling of why they're accosting him -- i.e. do we connect this to their bet at the World Cup? Harry and Ron take a walk in the moonlight (to shouts of joy from H/R slash fans...) and discover Snape and Karkaroff deep in...discussion. It sounds Very Ominous Indeed, so ominous that Snape delights in un-bushing (to coin a phrase) several pairs of students furthering their interpersonal relations. They next hear Hagrid and Madame Maxime talking -- the former rather amorously and, we assume, inebriatedly. He tells her he thinks she's a half-giant, and she shrieked "through the peaceful night air like a foghorn". ((Fleur and Roger Davies fall out of their rosebush at this point)) Ron explains about the Wizarding World's anti-giant prejudice. Upon returning, Parvati and Padma have got a crowd of Beauxbatons boys around them, and Hermy-own is dancing with Vicky Krum. Angst ensues as Harry spies Cho dancing with Cedric... They leave, but Cedric catches Harry on his way up the staircase and essentially tells him how to work the golden egg. ((We also hear about the prefects' bathroom...)) He returns to the Gryffindor common room to find Ron and Hermione having a major catfight -- Harry thinks Hermione was in the right. Okay, that's it. Read, digest, burp loudly. Any other suggestions for alternative chapter titles? --John P.S. Character Summary of Minerva McGonagall to follow soon :) ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#109 I will see to it that plucky young lads/lasses in strange clothes and with the accent of an outlander shall regularly climb some monument in the main square of my capital and denounce me, claim to know the secret of my power, rally the masses to rebellion, etc. That way, the citizens will be jaded in case the real thing ever comes along. ======================================== From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 13 01:55:45 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:55:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order Story for Salon.com References: <915pjh+hofh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A36D721.30F04E3@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6739 Brian Dorband wrote: > Greetings all, > > I am posting this in order to give all a chance to sound off regarding > the wand order issue. I I was going through my Potter Family FAQ for the group faqs, and hope it's not a problem to post what I just cut out of the FAQ, from the SPECULATIONS section. I wrote this in October: > Who died first? James or Lily? > According to Book 1, Ch. 17, Voldemort tells Harry that he killed James first, then Lily (who was protecting Harry). Also in Book IV, JKR restates in that Voldemort killed James and then Lily, which goes against the idea that she made an error in the graveyard scene. Elsewhere in Book IV, however, during the Priore Incantatum, which makes spells come out of a wand backwards, James? ?shadow? may have come out before Lily?s; if it did, then she was cursed first, and he was cursed second. However, there has been speculation that the ?shadow? that Harry thought was James was either Voldemort himself, or a version of Harry, as the result of the rebounded Avada Kevadra curse. Discussion on the list has developed various theories of how James and Lily were killed. (1) Voldemort arrived with the intent to kill Harry, encounters James in a front room and brushes past him, intent on his target. James is unable to deflect him or hold him off, but Voldemort does not curse him at this point. Lily is trying to shield Harry and won't get out of the way, so, Voldemort kills her. Then, James steps in & tries to shield his son, and Voldemort disposes of him too. However, this theory does not explain why Lily?s death, rather than the deaths of both parents, gave Harry the protection Dembledore spoke about in Book 1, or how the house was destroyed, which is not a common occurance in Avada Kedavra curses, as Voldemort would not have had the strength to do this after being hit by the rebounded curse. (2) Voldemort came to the Potters? house, killed James, demanded that Lily step aside so he could kill Harry, then killed Lily when she refused, then tried to kill Harry, and the curse then rebounded; the order in which his parents came out of the wand was somehow controlled by Harry himself. (3) James may have been killed by a curse which he deflected, but which rebounded against the house, causing something to fall on him which he could not prevent. (4) James somehow wasn?t killed by Voldemort, but after Lily was killed, and Voldemort destroyed, a Death Eater on the scene (possibly Wormtail or Snape) killed James with Voldemort?s wand. (5) Voldemort was after Harry, not James, so James gave Harry a polyjuice potion so he looked like James and then James drank one himself to look like Harry, so Harry would be protected since Voldy wasn't after James. For more discussion, see Message 4232, 4241, 4267, 4270, N2871, N1530, N1767, N1825 or the Mysteries FAQ. > Now, I guess I'm going to replace it with "whatever" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Wed Dec 13 02:48:57 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 02:48:57 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pronunciation (OT) In-Reply-To: <000801c0645e$8120fca0$483770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6740 Neil Ward at neilward at dircon.co.uk wrote: > Personally, I would say Voldemort without the 't' if I thought he was a > Frenchman, but as I know it is an anagram of Englishman Tom Riddle's full > name, I say it as Voldemort with the 't'. I get around this by using a glottal stop instead of a "t" :) Seems to work... --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#220 Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will pretend to have a different one. For example, I shall have all mirrors removed from the palace, scream and flinch whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will be "Hmm...I think I need a shave." ======================================== From john at walton.to Wed Dec 13 03:16:48 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 03:16:48 +0000 Subject: Character: Minerva McGonagall Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6741 ======================================== Character Summary: Professor Minerva McGonagall or "Minnie the Moocher" ======================================== Summariser's note: I'm doing this without PS, CoS or PoA here, so bear with me and feel free to add details. Name: Minerva McGonagall Age: Undetermined, but we guess middle-aged, whatever that is in Wizard Years. The Harry Potter Lexicon reckons 70s. Description: Generally severe. Hair in a bun. Scottish accent, especially prominent on the Jim Dale audiotapes. Wears square glasses (her feline form retains these in the form of square markings around her eyes). Job: Deputy Head and Head of Gryffindor House. Professor of Transfiguration. Looks set to be a prime mover on the side of Good. Personality: Fair but firm. Refuses to favour Gryffindor above other houses. (see question 4) Occasionally shows emotion -- when Lily & James are murdered, for example (see PS/SS). One always knows where one stands with Minerva McGonagall. (see question 1) Special abilities: * Is a feline Animagus * Can Transfigure just about anything * Referred to as a powerful witch * Could outdo Anne Robinson in Miss Ice Queen 2000 (UK joke, sorry :D Anne Robinson is a TV presenter who is known as the Ice Queen on "The Weakest Link" game show) RELATIONSHIPS: None in the canon. Rita "catlady" Winston has a great theory that Minerva and Madam Hooch (Minnie and Hoochie) have a longstanding relationship. Other shipping/slash to be found includes M/Dumbledore, M/Snape, M/Flitwick, M/Remus, M/Sirius and M/Pomfrey. QUESTIONS: 1) In PS, she jumps to the conclusion that Harry and Hermione tried to lure Draco out of bed up to the tower with the story about the dragon. Does this seem unfair and out of keeping with her fair-but-firm attitude? 2) Does JKR overdo the "Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" idea? Y'know, they've even cast Maggie Smith as McGonagall...::knowing look:: 3) What is the significance of her "protection" method for the Philosopher's Stone (the giant chess-set)? 4) Continuing the theme from question 1, what are possible reasons for McGonagall not punishing Harry -- indeed, rewarding him -- for flying unsupervised in PS? Hermione even thinks that this is inconsistent with McGonagall in general. Again, does this have any greater significance than a Good Plot Device? That's about it from the depths of my brain for now. Feel free to fire away questions and answers. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#220 Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will pretend to have a different one. For example, I shall have all mirrors removed from the palace, scream and flinch whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will be "Hmm...I think I need a shave." ======================================== From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 03:20:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:20:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pronunciation (OT) References: Message-ID: <3A36EB12.C5A25E1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6742 John Walton wrote: > I say it as Voldemort with the 't'. > > I get around this by using a glottal stop instead of a "t" :) Seems to > work... Don't passersby keep offering you cough drops? I never, ever thought of pronouncing it with a silent /t/, until I saw Caius' messages to the list. My reasoning: he's British, born British, not of French extraction at all. In fact, when French words show up, during the tournament, much is made of how Ron mispronounces it. So I assumed it was pronounced with a /t/. In fact, I never thought it could be done otherwise. Why, then, if JKR has a voiced /t/, do the various versions not? Another little mystery.... --Amanda, who's finally had enough after two weeks of sick kids and cars in the shop, and has imbibed half a bottle of mead and is slightly inebriated, can you tell? > > > --John > > ======================================== > John Walton john at walton.to > > When I am an Evil Overlord...#220 > Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will pretend to have a different one. > For example, I shall have all mirrors removed from the palace, scream and > flinch whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax > when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will > be "Hmm...I think I need a shave." > ======================================== > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 03:30:22 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:30:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character: Minerva McGonagall References: Message-ID: <3A36ED4D.D5F404C8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6743 John Walton wrote: > 1) In PS, she jumps to the conclusion that Harry and Hermione tried to lure > Draco out of bed up to the tower with the story about the dragon. Does this > seem unfair and out of keeping with her fair-but-firm attitude? Well, given Draco's frantic explanations, it might well have sounded like he'd gotten caught and was trying as hard as he could to take somebody else down, too. If I'd had, as a teacher, to put up with Draco's machinations, I'd be inclined not to listen too hard, either. She *is* human, after all, and she'd probably also just been woken up. > 2) Does JKR overdo the "Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" idea? Y'know, they've > even cast Maggie Smith as McGonagall...::knowing look:: Knowing look wasted. Not familiar with the reference. > 3) What is the significance of her "protection" method for the Philosopher's > Stone (the giant chess-set)? Well, the game of chess is methodic, rational, and playable by one who simply knows the rules--but mastery requires the intangible, the flash of insight, the hunch, the genius. She's set up a barrier that seems mundane but requires a certain amount of intuition, instinct, and willingness to take risks. > 4) Continuing the theme from question 1, what are possible reasons for > McGonagall not punishing Harry -- indeed, rewarding him -- for flying > unsupervised in PS? Hermione even thinks that this is inconsistent with > McGonagall in general. Again, does this have any greater significance than a > Good Plot Device? Great significance. It shows she's human. Despite her laudable attempts to cleave to an objective stance towards her own House, she simply can't let the opportunity to have such a Seeker pass by.....thereby letting her House have a stab at winning the cup back from Slytherin. This is a bending by one who seems unbendable, thus showing she is, in fact, bendable to a degree, if only on her own terms. She, like Snape, seems to have a rather severe internal code, and deviations therefrom are noteworthy as character illustration. --Amanda, still rather inebriated and hoping some of that made sense. At least I'm not doing typos yet. Yet. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 03:46:48 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 03:46:48 -0000 Subject: British HP Novels/Stephen Fry tapes In-Reply-To: <3f.dc72eee.27670309@aol.com> Message-ID: <916rf8+tfgp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6744 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/10/2000 6:20:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, > pennylin at s... writes: > > << www. amazon.co.uk (probably the best bet I would think) >> > > I'll try that. Thank you. > > I'm on the west coast of the US. > > ~Hedwig~ I have the U.K. paper version of the Philosopher's Stone and the Goblet of Fire...bought at Amazon.uk...even with paying for postage, it's still cheaper than buying it through Amazon u.s.. Bought my partner COS and PoA U.K. versions for Christmas, and bought myself the Stephen Fry tapes of the Philosopher's Stone..it's quite good, and quite interesting..(hearing the differential pronunciation of Hermione)..not quite as good as Jim Dale.........imho Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 03:52:33 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 03:52:33 -0000 Subject: And speaking of Christmas/charity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <916rq1+99jd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6745 As I think I have mentioned I am the director of the battered women's shelter in Ann Arbor. Each year, we collect donations from the community and give them out to about 500 women and kids. We have a wish list, and of COURSE, high on it is anything HP (Rank has SOME privileges. I was thrilled to notice a dozen copies of all the HP books coming in.......(We also have a wish list on Amazon.com under DVPSH at aol.com) Anyway, I'd like everyone who can afford it to consider making a donation of one of the books to your local shelter. You can find them by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or email me privately, and I'll find them for you! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:00:08 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:00:08 -0000 Subject: Re AOL quiz/scholastics quiz In-Reply-To: <9127ol+us7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <916s88+9ab8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6746 Did anyone else do the Scholastics quiz? The one where you lost if you answered wrong once...took me forever to get all 50 answers right THEY had a question that said that Hagrid was in Hufflepuff...took me a long time to realize that Hagrid's house is actually not mentioned... Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Wed Dec 13 03:22:43 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:22:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] British Food; Cloaks References: <86.41e8a61.276703bd@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A36EB83.EA6D1DC7@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6747 hedwigthecat at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/10/2000 7:36:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, > pkerr06 at attglobal.net writes: > > << > I talked with the company I'd bought my cloak from about lining, and the > person said that after years for experimentation they decided that it was > preferable not to line the cloaks--it didn't seem to serve much of a useful > purpose and any lining they put it seemed to get ripped anyway. I have to > agree. My coats always had ripped lining; there's no lining in my cloak and > I don't miss it in the least. >> > > I've always found that lining a cloak makes it drape well, adds to the warmth > and makes it flow much nicer:) Well, my cloak has a double layer of wool, from a wool yoke sewn to drape on top of the main cloak. Still, I probably could used an additional lining today. It was about -10 degrees below zero (Farenheit) today in Minneapolis, even more with wind chill. I am drinking hot mulled wine as I work on catching up on reading my email and simultaneously addressing Christmas cards. I got the idea from (I think?) the mention of mulled wine at a British Christmas feast; plus, reading The Voyage of the Dawn Treader to my children this week ("Rynelf! Bring spiced wine for their Majesties!") Sipping hot mulled wine while addressing Christmas cards and listening to Loreena McKennitt's "To Drive the Cold Winter Away" feels extremely and pleasantly decadent. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:02:08 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:02:08 -0000 Subject: Tom Riddle (on topic), weight (off topic) and cats (off topic) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <916sc0+jmd8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6748 > Neil wrote: "mice pies" > I wrote: "Mice pies? Are they any good?" > Neil answered my question with: "They are delicious. I usually eat them > coated in the blood of a strangled cat." > I wrote: "Sounds like one of the most useful things to do with a cat! > Susan replied: "meeeooowww...professor mcgonagall and I are not amused, nor are my cats the Kent State Memorial Cat; Guinivere; Jezebel; Watson; Piper;McGregor and Uhura. Nor is Mrs. Figgs...." > > So now I have large numbers of cats (animagus, magical and muggle) after me - goes well with the dead maniac with a large demonic sword who is already after me! Well, you know there are good days and bad days..... From eliasberg at ioc.net Wed Dec 13 04:06:53 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:06:53 -0000 Subject: Re AOL quiz/scholastics quiz In-Reply-To: <916s88+9ab8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <916skt+8tit@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6749 JKR has said that Hagrid was in Gryffindor! From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 04:08:06 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:08:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Kashrut / Languages (ot) Message-ID: <20001213040806.9600.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6750 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Kimberly wrote: > > > I don't know about the British, but I'd say for > most of us (U.S.) > > Americans, learning English as a first language > seems to do more > > damage to the humility areas of the brain than the > language-learning > > areas. > > > > I was a grad instructor in Begining French in the > midwest for a couple > > of years, and I can't tell you how many of my > students grumbled that > > it was rediculous to have a foreign language > requirement, and I'm > > ashamed to mention some of the reasons they gave, > but the gist was > > either everyone already speaks English, they will > if they want to make > > any money, or they simply should, since it's the > 'most important > > language in the world'. > > Whatever they perceived as the reason they didn't > want to learn, there is a > certain reality that unless you live up North, near > Quebec, or down here > near the border to Mexico, you probably will never > need or use a second > language. In Europe, homelands where other languages > are spoken are much, > much closer than in the U.S. and it's much more > relevant. > > Now, if one is from a household where another > language is spoken, or if one > is lucky enough to have the funds to globe-trot or > move to another country, > then multiple languages are tremendously useful. But > for the majority of > Americans, they really will never need them. The > argument that it broadens > the horizons and opens other windows of perception > (I follow Worf's > hypothesis) carries little weight in our > minimum-education, minimum-effort > attitudes. > > --Amanda, Texas native who always wondered why they > taught Spain's Spanish > and not Mexico's at school, and who can gesture > fluently in Polish. I've been rather enjoying hearing everyone's take on the language issue. Being Canadian, learning French is a requirement from elementary school. It's not until after a couple years of high school that you have the option of dropping the language from your classes. There are also the options of early or late immersion. In the former, you start taking half your classes in French from the first grade right through elementary school. In the latter, you take some of your 7th and 8th grade classes, like history and geography, in French. My daughter tried late immersion. Once she found her marks dropping in the classes she took totally in French, she opted out. I had a huge battle with the school, which insisted I force her to remain in the late immersion programme. Needless to say, I refused. It was her idea to join the programme, and I allowed her to make the decision to opt out after the first year. She dropped French after the 10th grade, leaving me the only one in the family who can get by in the language. I learned my French in Europe, where my father was stationed. When we later moved to northern Quebec, my marks dropped from 90s to around 60 - very different languages. I haven't had to use my French very much, so I've lost a lot of it. I'm taking a stab at reading the first 3 HP books in French, but it's very slow going. I keep wanting to flip over to the English versions for clarification, but I've lent them to friends. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:13:08 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:13:08 EST Subject: Some Comments on Trelawny Message-ID: <61.9b67bc2.27685154@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6751 ...from a Tarot card reader... Hi All, Sorry I'm sending my comments in on this discussion so late. I plead a death in the family and numerous visiting friends and relations that have kept me from reading and responding to emails. I just can't resist this particular discussion, though. I find Trelawny one of the funnest and silliest characters JKR's come up with. I enjoy her very much! I also believe her characterization is the opposite of what any decent tarot reader (or probably palm reader, tea leaf reader or whatever) would really be and a wonderful campy hyperbolic version of the usual "gypsy in the tearoom." I think my favorite bit about her (other than the "Tripe, Sybill?" line) is her statement that she saw herself joining the students and staff for Christmas dinner and therefore came down to join them! IIRC the Sibyls were the women who gave predictions at Apollo's shrine at Delphi... >From http://www.pantheon.org/mythica/articles/d/delphi.html "[There was a] mythical figure called Herophile, who was more commonly known as "Sibyl" sang the oracle in Gaia's shrine, and from that time on all prophetesses where known by that name. The "Sibylline Rock" can still be seen, and it was here the Sibyl sat and gave out her prophecies speaking in riddles. According to Pausanias, the Sibyl was the daughter of a mortal and a nymph "born between man and goddess, daughter of sea monsters and immortal nymph". Other versions believed she was sister to Apollo, and others his daughter. According to one legend, Gaia gave the oracle to her daughter, the goddess of justice Themis, who in turn passed it on to her sister the moon goddess Phoebe." I think she was also known as the Pythoness. As for myself, I've never tried to predict the future with cards (or anything else) -- I've always used them as pictures that help a person tap into their subconscious and deal with problems or questions. And I don't charge money for readings, by the way (although I do request that my Querants make a donation of time or assistance to the charity of their choice in return for a reading). Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:19:02 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:19:02 -0000 Subject: "How HP has changed my life" contest winners In-Reply-To: <9145t9+tfqk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <916tbm+2h1f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6752 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eliasberg at i... wrote: > Those are simply amazing essays, makes you appreciate life a > little more. Everyone should read these......hearing about the kid who called the radio station to protest HP censorship...the child who said that their teacher should be the one to meet JKR because he had taught them courtesy and kindness (although I worry where the kids' parents are).........an extraordinary and courageous group of children Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:25:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:25:10 -0000 Subject: Bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <9168rv+k1ba@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <916tn6+sso3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6753 I think I want My child won the House Quidditch Cup at Hogwarts! Or My child plays Quiditch at Hogwarts! From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:28:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:28:34 -0000 Subject: Bumper stickers/Cheating In-Reply-To: <915vkl+m98p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <916tti+dtpb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6754 let's cheat and do a sticker that says something like "My kid is in Gryffinder at 'Ogwarts" From SHENmagic at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:33:15 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:33:15 EST Subject: Golden Toad Awards Message-ID: <6c.5d5bf2d.2768560b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6755 How would one vote for the Golden Toads? I found the website with the nominees, I'm reading the few I haven't read, but for some reason the "vote here" button doesn't work. Also, that page doesn't say when the deadline for voting is..... Thanks! Aylihael From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:31:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:31:32 -0000 Subject: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <001401c06497$ab923920$1ab191d8@computer> Message-ID: <916u34+3783@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6756 Jim Dale says "Voldemor" (silent t) Stephen Fry says "VoldemorT" (sounds the t) I will always think of him as Voldemor (silent t), because I assumed that there was a play on words and that it referenced the French word for death From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 13 04:42:40 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:42:40 -0000 Subject: Re AOL quiz/scholastics quiz In-Reply-To: <916skt+8tit@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <916uo0+ssm1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6757 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eliasberg at i... wrote: > JKR has said that Hagrid was in Gryffindor! has she? Excellent.. My point was that the Scholastics quiz was wrong! I have a naive touching faith in all online quizzes... the Meijer's Briggs Test, etc. From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 04:44:33 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:44:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: And speaking of Christmas/charity Message-ID: <20001213044433.12713.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6758 Interesting you should post this. I called our local shelter last week asking if there was anyone I could help with gifts this year. I just finished the shopping yesterday. Sheryll --- Susan McGee wrote: > As I think I have mentioned I am the director of the > battered women's > shelter in Ann Arbor. Each year, we collect > donations from the > community and give them out to about 500 women and > kids. > > We have a wish list, and of COURSE, high on it is > anything HP (Rank > has SOME privileges. I was thrilled to notice a > dozen copies of all > the HP books coming in.......(We also have a wish > list on Amazon.com > under DVPSH at aol.com) > > Anyway, I'd like everyone who can afford it to > consider making a > donation of one of the books to your local shelter. > You can find them > by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or email me privately, > and I'll find them > for you! > > Susan > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From vderark at bccs.org Wed Dec 13 04:47:44 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:47:44 -0000 Subject: Beacham book In-Reply-To: <20001212144132.62530.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <916v1g+fthd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6759 > > btw - do you remember what the 4 errors you spotted > were? I know one was that Hogwarts was completely obscured by fog much of the time. I can't remember the others. I picked it up off a shelf in a bookstore, trying to keep an open mind, since I have big problems with people who attack a book they haven't actually read, and I just opened it and started reading. (I have to admit too that part of me was worried because the book is, in some sense, competition to my Lexicon website, so to be fair, I WANTED to find errors. Hey, I wanna win.) But I was amazed at how easy it was to find the errors! I get the sense that she doesn't know how to keep her interpretations and suppositions from coming through as facts. And I also suspect that she hasn't read the books more than once and then maybe once more for notes. I can tell you from experience that you CAN'T write something like that without knowing the books almost intuitively from repeated readings. I listen to the audio tapes all the time. I have read each book many times and still read them. I'm reading GF aloud to my son right now and I constantly find things that slipped past me. In order to understand the world you're describing, you have to immerse yourself in it. I know, you guys laugh at me because I'm a little teensy tiny bit obsessed with it all, but frankly, I can't imagine anyone writing a worthwhile guide who WASN'T obsessed with it. And I don't think she is at all. Opportunistic, yes, obsessed, no. And hey, I'm not the only obsessed one here. I'm SURROUNDED by obsessed people. Yeah, I'm talking to you... Now I really would like to read the book at some point, just to feel a bit more justified in talking it down, but I can't see spending the money on it, money we just don't have right now, with Christmas and all. So I guess you can take all my comments with a hefty grain of salt. Or a shot of peppermint schnapps, if you're so inclined. I know I am... Steve :) The Harry Potter Lexicon created, written, and edited by a genuinely obsessed guy http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 13 05:10:04 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:10:04 +0800 Subject: PS/SS protection was Character: Minerva McGonagall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6760 >Personality: Fair but firm. Refuses to favour Gryffindor above >other houses. >(see question 4) Occasionally shows emotion -- when Lily & James are >murdered, for example (see PS/SS). One always knows where one stands with >Minerva McGonagall. (see question 1) CoS: She catches Harry and Ron sneaking off from HoM. Harry gives the excuse that they're off to visit Hermione, she ends up with a shaky voice and sends them off with her blessing, with a distinct sniffle heard when the duo's around the corner. Theory: She has a soft spot for Harry's personal crises... she also tried to dissuade Dumbledore from leaving Harry with the Dursley's after she saw what they were like eleven years ago. >3) What is the significance of her "protection" method for the >Philosopher's >Stone (the giant chess-set)? I was wondering about that. Couldn't a powerful witch/wizard undo the transfiguration, leaving the chamber empty? Or is it that Voldemort was terrible at chess? On another note, the need to join the pieces has also been nagging. >4) Continuing the theme from question 1, what are possible reasons for >McGonagall not punishing Harry -- indeed, rewarding him -- for flying >unsupervised in PS? Hermione even thinks that this is inconsistent with >McGonagall in general. Again, does this have any greater >significance than a >Good Plot Device? Or the depths of her secret Quidditch passion. I've known some quiet, somber people who become utter screaming psychotics when their basketball or football team is playing. Nathan From vderark at bccs.org Wed Dec 13 05:05:45 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:05:45 -0000 Subject: Character: Minerva McGonagall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <917039+aovo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6761 > Name: Minerva McGonagall > > Age: Undetermined, but we guess middle-aged, whatever that is in Wizard > Years. The Harry Potter Lexicon reckons 70s. In my own defense here, let me just say that this isn't a guess. This is what JKR said in an interview. I have pretty strict standards in the Lexicon, not putting anything down unless I'm sure of it. When I do guess or estimate, I try to make it clear that it's not canon. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 13 06:23:27 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:23:27 -0000 Subject: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors In-Reply-To: <028301c06485$3ad8f960$c5c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <9174kv+m4h9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6762 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Isn't Lavender Brown Carribean? > catrina I don't recall ANYTHING in the books indicating that Lavender Brown is Caribbean, altho' the American version of Book 1 states (in the Sorting) that Dean Thomas is a tall Black boy, "even taller than Ron" and I have thought it likely that a Brit who is named Dean Thomas and is black is more likely to be of West Indian ancestry than of directly African ancestry. Since 'Lavender Brown' is a silly name (two colors that don't go together), I had thought she must be from a wizarding family since the wizard folk seem to go in for silly names) until I noticed the scene in PoA where Trelawney sees the Grim in Harry's tea cup. Hermione looks outraged, Dean and Lavender look puzzled, but everyone else looks terrified. I deduced that everyone who was raised in a wizarding family grew up afraid of the Grim, and the Muggle-born may or may not have learned about the Grim from their friends at Hogwarts (as Harry and Hermione learned from Ron). Thus, the conclusion that Lavender Brown is Muggle-born. I would be MUCH HAPPIER if it had been Parvati rather than Lavender who had looked puzzled, as I firmly believe that the Patil twins are Muggle-born. For that matter, I don't have GOOD evidence from the books that Hermione has Caribbean ancestry. In one book, where Harry meets up with her right after summer vacation (in France) and she was 'looking very brown', I always knew that meant she was suntanned more than usual, which in turn means that her winter skin color is not entirely dark (dark enough people don't get darker from sun). There are a mess of people telling me that the description of her hair as 'bushy' means something different than 'nappy', and I myself have met a family of very pale people who have big teeth. I think my opinion may be based more on Hermione reminding me of someone I used to know who had Caribbean ancestors. > -- > /\ /\ > + + Mews and views > >> = << from Rita Prince Winston > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' > (((' (((-((('' (((( > From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 13 06:31:23 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:31:23 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <031901c06491$9c330a00$c5c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <91753r+9q15@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6763 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > I understand it as a mixture of languages such as vol=full de=of > mort=death. I wonder if this was intended by the author? In what language is "vol" = "full"? In French, vol = flight or vol = theft (once again, I get a chance to tell the story of the French nobleman who commented on Napoleon's confiscation of noble's estates: "C'est le premier vol de l'aigle": it is the first (flight/theft) of the eagle). This gives us the possibilities: Flight from Death (he is striving for immortality) Flight of Death (and where he lands, he kills someone) Theft from Death (he is stealing immortality/life from death) Theft of Death (by killing all those people, he is stealing Death's privilege of ending their lives at the appointed time) From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 13 06:47:34 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:47:34 -0000 Subject: Chapter 23: The Yule Ball In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <917626+nhd7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6764 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > It appears that the majority of Gryffindor (and all its male fourth > years) have remained at Hogwarts. Any theories as to why they all > stay this year? Most of the kids *want* to stay over the holidays because they *want* to go to the Yule Ball. Some who might NOT want to go to the Yule Ball for fear of being wallflowers or having people laugh at their bad dancing may have been forced to attend by their well-intended parents or guardians. Neville might be in that situation, altho' we have no evidence of him not wanting to go tread on Ginny's feet. > Fleur goes with Roger Davies (H?) Roger is Ravenclaw's Quidditch captain. > * Ron WANTS to go with Hermione Ron THINKS he wants to go with Fleur. > Serious question, though -- does Hermione's newfound appearance > change our opinion of her? It just makes me jealous of her -- not all of us have the ability to change our appearance like that. Altho' Viktor did have the good taste to fancy her BEFORE she changed her appearance. In the US edition, she used an entire jar of Hair-So-Sleek and I wondered whether that was supposed to be a magic or Muggle product. The UK edition says 'liberal quantities of Sleekeezy's Hair Potion", which answers that question. So, if it's magic, why can't she just CHARM her hair once a week or so instead of having to mess with Hair Potion every day? > Ron has issues with the fact that Herm-own-ninny is "fraternizing > with the enemy". His hypocrisy is underlined when Hermione points > out that he has a Krum model on his bedside ((But how does > Her-my-oh-knee know this? She was with him at the Quidditch World Cup when he bought the model. Anyway, doesn't she go into the boys' room (discreetly wearing a pink dressing gown over her pajamas) every Christmas morning to watch them unwrap their prezzies? That's an error on the WB store shopping bags, incidentally, which show them unwrapping prezzies in the Great Hall. > so ominous that Snape delights in un-bushing (to coin a phrase) > several pairs of students furthering their interpersonal relations. I feel pretty sure that he was exploding the rosebushes out of bad temper and taking points from the students out of bad temper, rather than acting on chaperone duty. I wondered whether he was authorized to damage innocent rosebushes (as in his line to H and R about having damaged an old and valuable Whomping Willow by crashing a car into it!) and whether Dumbledore made him repair the rosebushes he had broken. Magic should be able to repair / replace them faster than Muggle horticulture. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Dec 13 06:48:21 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:48:21 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <9169nf+evuq@eGroups.com> <031901c06491$9c330a00$c5c116c2@pnxpg> <001401c06497$ab923920$1ab191d8@computer> Message-ID: <03e801c064d0$b01a4260$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6765 > I have read several times that the connection with the "mort" in Voldermort > is meant to be a connection with "death". In addition, the HP text recorded > books have Voldermort without the "t" as well as a pronunciation guide from > scholastic. One site I visited had recorded samples for lots of HP-related words but for Voldemort it said "shh -- he who must not be named!" :-) Simon. From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 13 06:57:00 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:57:00 -0000 Subject: Character: Minerva McGonagall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9176jt+rdc5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6766 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > ======================================== > Character Summary: Professor Minerva McGonagall > Age: Undetermined, but we guess middle-aged, whatever that is in > Wizard Years. The Harry Potter Lexicon reckons 70s. In one of the on-line chats, someone asked JKR how old is Dumbledore. She answered: '150' and went on to explain that wizards live longer than Muggles and that McGonagall is 'a sprightly 70'. When I previously had thought that wizard folk aged at a rate more similar to Muggles, I had thought she was 63. (Like Hagrid, but now we know that she was either out of school, or at least an upperclassman when Hagrid was in school. That kind of rules out schooldays romance between them.) Her dress robe is tartan. I keep wondering whether it has a high or low neckline. From eliasberg at ioc.net Wed Dec 13 07:07:05 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:07:05 -0000 Subject: Re AOL quiz/scholastics quiz In-Reply-To: <916uo0+ssm1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91776p+doha@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6767 I'm not really sure if the Meijer's Briggs Test is in the same arena as Harry Potter trivia. Altough I prefer HP trivia, to the point that none of my friends will play trivia with me, they never get a turn. From wren at thejunkbox.com Wed Dec 13 07:08:01 2000 From: wren at thejunkbox.com (wren lanier) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 02:08:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean In-Reply-To: <9174kv+m4h9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6768 hi everyone. i'm new, so forgive me if i'm repeating something already posted. along with dean thomas and angelina, who are explicitly mentioned as black, lee jordan is described in book 1 i think as having dreadlocks, when he's first introduced on the hogwarts express as showing off a large spider to the weasley twins. that could make him of carribean or african decent, though granted, plenty of white boys wear dreadlocks too (at least in the US. don't know about UK). if he's not black, that would place lee in the white-boy hemp-wearing stoner-deadhead-reggae crowd, which would make him exactly the sort of fellow the weasley twins would want to hang out with. i kind of like imagining him with long blond, dirty dreadlocks with some beads on a hemp rope around his neck under his robes, but thats just my fancy. - wren --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Isn't Lavender Brown Carribean? > catrina I don't recall ANYTHING in the books indicating that Lavender Brown is Caribbean, altho' the American version of Book 1 states (in the Sorting) that Dean Thomas is a tall Black boy, "even taller than Ron" and I have thought it likely that a Brit who is named Dean Thomas and is black is more likely to be of West Indian ancestry than of directly African ancestry. Since 'Lavender Brown' is a silly name (two colors that don't go together), I had thought she must be from a wizarding family since the wizard folk seem to go in for silly names) until I noticed the scene in PoA where Trelawney sees the Grim in Harry's tea cup. Hermione looks outraged, Dean and Lavender look puzzled, but everyone else looks terrified. I deduced that everyone who was raised in a wizarding family grew up afraid of the Grim, and the Muggle-born may or may not have learned about the Grim from their friends at Hogwarts (as Harry and Hermione learned from Ron). Thus, the conclusion that Lavender Brown is Muggle-born. I would be MUCH HAPPIER if it had been Parvati rather than Lavender who had looked puzzled, as I firmly believe that the Patil twins are Muggle-born. For that matter, I don't have GOOD evidence from the books that Hermione has Caribbean ancestry. In one book, where Harry meets up with her right after summer vacation (in France) and she was 'looking very brown', I always knew that meant she was suntanned more than usual, which in turn means that her winter skin color is not entirely dark (dark enough people don't get darker from sun). There are a mess of people telling me that the description of her hair as 'bushy' means something different than 'nappy', and I myself have met a family of very pale people who have big teeth. I think my opinion may be based more on Hermione reminding me of someone I used to know who had Caribbean ancestors. > -- > /\ /\ > + + Mews and views > >> = << from Rita Prince Winston > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' > (((' (((-((('' (((( > eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mzettl at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 08:20:39 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:20:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Delurker, somewhat OT References: <912vk8+p0d7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00d201c064dd$94a70e20$722907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6769 > Am I the only one frustrated by the fact that so many people from non- > English speaking countries, who likely learned English as a second > (or third or fourth) language, seem to have much better English > writing skills than many (maybe most) Americans I meet? Well, first off I feel a little bit embarassed because I just noticed that I haven't introduced myself before I started posting :) Sorry. I'm Dinah and from Germany. And I just think that knowing how to use the language (because it hasn't anything to do with knowledge but with usage) comes from the way *how* it is taught. When you learn a foreign language you get an in-depth course of grammar with all the rules and how-to-dos. I can explain English grammar much better than German and I make far less puncation mistakes in English. But I'm sure anyone who learns Germans could tell me many things about grammar I don't know. BTW, I'm some kind of typo-queen and my mailing programme has no spell-check for English, so please bear with me Dinah From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Dec 13 08:57:17 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:57:17 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Biography of the Year - OT Message-ID: <01C0653F.1B3B73C0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6770 Anake wrote "9) Cathy Freeman (first Aboriginal medalist in history by winning the 400-meter event in the Sydney Olympics)" Hi everyone - Cathy (fabulous thou she is) was not the first indigenous person to get a gold medal. I don't know who was but at the Atlanta games Nova Pervis-Kneebone got on as part of the hockey team. This games Jai what's name (track and field) also got one and and and (revealing my lack of knowledge of sporting history err. I think their were others - Lionel Rose (boxing) in the 50's? Cathy is pretty amazing thou (and married to a Yank - not that that would raise her profile ) storm -----Original Message----- From: Anake [SMTP:neptune_1984 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:20 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Biography of the Year In the US, the A&E channel's show, Biography, named JK Rowling as number 6 for Biography of 2000. Here is the complete list (I could be wrong, though, with some of the numbers because Biography.com hasn't put up their list yet--it aired last night, if anyone knows the correct order, if I do have it wrong, PLEASE be nitpicky and correct me): 10) Charles Schultz 8) Richard Hatch (Survivor winner) 7) Elian Gonzalez 6) J.K. Rowling 5) Michael J. Fox 4) Tiger Woods 3) Hillary Clinton 2) George W. Bush and Al Gore 1) Francis Collins and Craig Venter (who completed the Human Geome Project) From, ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 "Look at them all, through the darkness I'm bringing. They're not sad at all. They're actually singing! They sing without juicers. They sing without blenders. They sing without flunjers, capdabblers and smendlers!"--Mr. Burns (ala The Grinch), THE SIMPSONS ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From mzettl at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 08:32:28 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:32:28 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans References: <20001211201414.8501.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <028701c064e3$9abff8c0$722907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6771 Voicelady wrote: > >There is a flavor guide inside and the four icky flavors in the bag are black pepper, grass (I > >experienced those two in an unmarked bag a few months ago), horseradish and, believe it or not, > >booger. Can you imagine the research/development department figuring that one out? Do you know that "Jelly Belly" stuff? I got a bag of those yesterday, but without a flavor guide which leaves me a bit desperate. My first one tasted like cough syrup and my little brother swears he had a Shampoo one, but I don't really think so BTW, I also found Choco Frogs!!! Yipeee! Now I just have to make some Wizard Cards and the Christmas Present for my bro' is saved... Dinah From mzettl at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 08:45:57 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:45:57 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation References: <914epr+l323@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <028801c064e3$9b9a2c20$722907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6772 > Just for fun I used Freetranslation.com to computer translate a well > know paragraph From Harry Potter to French and then back into > English. The original paragraph is below it. I think the second > paragraph is a tad better. Which leads me to a question: (First Chaoter of CoS) Duddykins belches and after that Aunt Petunia says "I don't like the sound of that school food." Now, she doesn't mean the sound that it makes in his belly, does she? Because that's how they translated it. I read all the books in the GB version (each at least 5 times, but the PoA, which is my favorite, 7 or 8 times) and now I have pestered my Mum into buying the books in German for my little brother and they are poorly translated. Good thing I know the English ones by heart so I can make smart comments about the German one while reading it . And I got the German audio tapes of PoA yesterday and read the English book while I listen to the German cassette and some parts are simply horrible. Dinah From mzettl at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 08:54:47 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:54:47 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bumper stickers References: <915edb+uir1@eGroups.com> <3A367068.9D8DB6C0@dvd-films.freeuk.com> Message-ID: <028901c064e3$9c6396a0$722907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6773 Nick wrote (Respectfully snipped): > Much nicer... though remember that (tm) after Hogwarts! > > , or even, "My other broom is a Firebolt" > > Have to look that one up... think we are allowed it. Probably best if we > register that phrase as a trademark - then Warner Bros can't use it. I know you already talked about that ruddy calendar (the only piece of merchandise I get here in Germany, grrr), and it really, really, bothers me. Everywhere those little (tm)s, ack! If I'd print it out privately would I get into trouble? I plan on making myself a "Gryffindor Quidditch Team" Shirt and I don't expect that an official at WB will see me in it... Dinah From mzettl at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 09:02:55 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:02:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <91753r+9q15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <028a01c064e3$9d902fc0$722907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6774 > In what language is "vol" = "full"? voll = full (German) Dinah From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Dec 13 09:32:48 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:32:48 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation Message-ID: <01C06543.F18DF340.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6775 Dinah wrote: Which leads me to a question: (First Chaoter of CoS) Duddykins belches and after that Aunt Petunia says "I don't like the sound of that school food." Now, she doesn't mean the sound that it makes in his belly, does she? Because that's how they translated it." LOL! That's not the way I would have read it! I think its more likely that she doesn't like what Dudders has been telling her about the food. But I've been wrong before. storm -----Original Message----- From: Dinah [SMTP:mzettl at freenet.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:46 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation I read all the books in the GB version (each at least 5 times, but the PoA, which is my favorite, 7 or 8 times) and now I have pestered my Mum into buying the books in German for my little brother and they are poorly translated. Good thing I know the English ones by heart so I can make smart comments about the German one while reading it . And I got the German audio tapes of PoA yesterday and read the English book while I listen to the German cassette and some parts are simply horrible. Dinah To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 13 10:04:37 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:04:37 -0000 Subject: Voldemort and language Message-ID: <010801c064ec$2172b940$483770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6776 Re 'Voldemort' origins: I know this is getting pretty obscure, but the word 'mort' (with the 't' sounded) exists in the English language. It's a hunting term - a noun - meaning "a note sounded when the quarry is killed". The origin, according to the OEnD, is "Middle English from Old French from Latin: mors mortis". French used to be widely spoken in England in the C11 to C14, so some words of French origin would have entered the English language very early on and been subject to alteration, over generations of more common use, to sound more 'English'. I think this explains why British English treats some words that are clearly of French origin as if they were English words. When I first read 'Voldemort' I did consider pronouncing it without the 't', but plumped for leaving the 't' in. There was absolutely no logic to this, because at that stage I had no idea that it was an anagram of Tom Marvolo Riddle or that the wizarding world would have a vaguely Mediaeval feel with Latin-sounding phrases serving as spells. I guess I was just being British :) Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 13 10:41:03 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:41:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book References: <916v1g+fthd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A37523F.32B83503@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 6777 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I picked it up off a shelf in a bookstore, trying to keep an open > mind, since I have big problems with people who attack a book they > haven't actually read, and I just opened it and started reading. (I > have to admit too that part of me was worried because the book is, in > some sense, competition to my Lexicon website, so to be fair, I > WANTED to find errors. Hey, I wanna win.) So it's 0 for Beecham, 4 for Hogwarts? > But I was amazed at how easy it was to find the errors! I get the > sense that she doesn't know how to keep her interpretations and > suppositions from coming through as facts. And I also suspect that > she hasn't read the books more than once and then maybe once more for > notes. I can tell you from experience that you CAN'T write something > like that without knowing the books almost intuitively from repeated > readings. I listen to the audio tapes all the time. I have read each > book many times and still read them. I'm reading GF aloud to my son > right now and I constantly find things that slipped past me. In order > to understand the world you're describing, you have to immerse > yourself in it. I know, you guys laugh at me because I'm a little > teensy tiny bit obsessed with it all, but frankly, I can't imagine > anyone writing a worthwhile guide who WASN'T obsessed with it. And I > don't think she is at all. Opportunistic, yes, obsessed, no. Completely true. I (as some of you know) am currently writing a fanfiction which takes place after 4th year, but the next chapter is going to reference some 3rd year events - and if I hadn't reread PoA the past few days to refresh my recollection of it, I never would've remembered that Hermione's Arithmancy class is at the same time as Magical Creatures, and if I had trusted my instincts, I would've made a *huge* blunder... From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Dec 13 12:08:10 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:08:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book References: <916v1g+fthd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <019001c064fd$5d190c40$f843ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6778 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Vander Ark" > Now I really would like to read the book at some point, just to feel > a bit more justified in talking it down, but I can't see spending the > money on it, money we just don't have right now, with Christmas and > all. So I guess you can take all my comments with a hefty grain of > salt. Or a shot of peppermint schnapps, if you're so inclined. I know > I am... > > Steve :) > I'll send you the group's circulating copy when I'm done...(unless its promised to someone else, Heidi?). Send me your address off-list. I'll look at it this week...and forward it along... carole From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 12:57:49 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:57:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book 5 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6779 Yes....Book 5 will be Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix. JK Rowlnig told a "very adorable little boy" while she signed his book. It was on one of the many "rumors sites" that post info on the new movies being produced, but this did have several sources. The site also went as far as to say that the book would be released in Nov. 2001 to coincinde with the release of the 1st Harry Potter motion picture. As for pronunciation, since this is my first real message, I always pronounced the t on Voldemort. Stephanie Becvar On a side note, I am new to your list, and have tried to send this message many times but my computer must be suffering from some hex. I just wanted to say I am 16, but I really enjoy your commentary. I love to read and analyze, and was pleasantly suprised at the spectrum for analysis that these books offered. It was a refreshing change to see htis from a "Grown Up" point of view rather than talking about it with my 10 year old brother and sister. And just on a side note, somewhere on your website i read the time theory, which was intriguing, but when Mrs. Weasley talks about being caught by the caretaker, i believe that she meant the man who preceeded Filch, not Hagrid. Mind i read this when it was very late so i may have misinterpreted, but hey, i get a chance to speak too!! ;) Well, thank all of you so much, it is nice to come home and check my mail and have 10 messages of analysis and meaning about something that i completely love. If anyone is interested, and i wont send it out unless people are bc some other HP fans have been offended, I have an essay i worte for my AP english class about how Harry Potter fits into the classic fairy tale and i related it to such classic works as Antigone and more modern works such as Star Wars(Star Wars is a big chunk of my paper), so If anyone is interested, i would be more than happy to pop it on here. Wow, i havbe typed a lot, and I have finals to study for. Oh to be young again ;) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From amy at wintersmoon.com Wed Dec 13 13:46:36 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:46:36 -0500 Subject: New to the list Message-ID: <00ac01c0650b$1cf3a8b0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 6780 Hello! My name's Amy. I joined a couple days ago and have been trying to play "catch up" ever since. My obsession with Harry Potter is recently aquired...I started reading the books last weekend. Now, I'm completely obsessed. My favoirte book is PoA, and my favorite character is Sirius (of course, you probably saw that coming after I said my favorite book was PoA). I'm amazed at the amount of information out there. Steve...I love your lexicon...I've spent many hours there in the past week:-) Now, I've got a question...it's about merchandise. Does anyone know if Department 56 has any plans of releasing a Harry Potter "Village"? They've got the Secret Boxes, which to be honest, I'm not overly impressed with. However, a "village" (as they call their collections of houses) would be great! You would of course have Hogwarts, then you could have The Burrow's, 4 Privet Lane (forgive me if I'm mispelling any of this...I'm at work and don't have my books), the shops of Diagon Alley, Knock Turn Alley, and Hogsmead. That alone would keep them going for a couple years. Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 13 13:54:49 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:54:49 -0600 Subject: Hagrid in Gryffindor? References: <916skt+8tit@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A377FA9.573226BD@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6781 Hi - eliasberg at ioc.net wrote: > JKR has said that Hagrid was in Gryffindor! I remember her saying that Lily was in Gryffindor "of course" -- (and her little commentary "of course" naturally led alot of us to believe that *all* the "good guys" were in Gryffindor from JKR's perspective). But, I'm not sure I recall that she specifically said that Hagrid was in Gryffindor. Have I just forgotten this fact? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 14:00:05 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:00:05 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Golden Toad Awards Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6782 In a message dated 12/13/00 4:35:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, SHENmagic at aol.com writes: << How would one vote for the Golden Toads? I found the website with the nominees, I'm reading the few I haven't read, but for some reason the "vote here" button doesn't work. Also, that page doesn't say when the deadline for voting is..... Thanks! Aylihael >> Where is this site again? My husband crashed the computer AGAIN and I lost the site. Thanks Tessie From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 14:01:50 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:01:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bumper stickers Message-ID: <35.dee7555.2768db4e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6783 In a message dated 12/12/00 6:39:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com writes: << > , or even, "My other broom is a Firebolt" Have to look that one up... think we are allowed it. Probably best if we register that phrase as a trademark - then Warner Bros can't use it. Nick. >> How about.... My Gryffindor can beat the crap out of your Slytherin Tessie From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 05:59:01 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:59:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 title Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6784 Yes....Book 5 will be Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix. JK Rowlnig told a "very adorable little boy" while she signed his book. It was on one of the many "rumors sites" that post info on the new movies being produced, but this did have several sources. The site also went as far as to say that the book would be released in Nov. 2001 to coincinde with the release of the 1st Harry Potter motion picture. As for pronunciation, since this is my first real message, I always pronounced the t on Voldemort. Stephanie Becvar On a side note, I am new to your list, and have tried to send this message many times but my computer must be suffering from some hex. I just wanted to say I am 16, but I really enjoy your commentary. I love to read and analyze, and was pleasantly suprised at the spectrum for analysis that these books offered. It was a refreshing change to see htis from a "Grown Up" point of view rather than talking about it with my 10 year old brother and sister. And just on a side note, somewhere on your website i read the time theory, which was intriguing, but when Mrs. Weasley talks about being caught by the caretaker, i believe that she meant the man who preceeded Filch, not Hagrid. Mind i read this when it was very late so i may have misinterpreted, but hey, i get a chance to speak too!! ;) Well, thank all of you so much, it is nice to come home and check my mail and have 10 messages of analysis and meaning about something that i completely love. If anyone is interested, and i wont send it out unless people are bc some other HP fans have been offended, I have an essay i worte for my AP english class about how Harry Potter fits into the classic fairy tale and i related it to such classic works as Antigone and more modern works such as Star Wars(Star Wars is a big chunk of my paper), so If anyone is interested, i would be more than happy to pop it on here. Wow, i havbe typed a lot, and I have finals to study for. Oh to be young again ;) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From mzettl at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 14:29:01 2000 From: mzettl at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:29:01 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation References: <01C06543.F18DF340.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <001201c06511$0b099280$0c2a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6785 > Now, she doesn't mean the sound that it makes in his belly, does she? > Because that's how they translated it." > > LOL! That's not the way I would have read it! I think its more likely that she > doesn't like what Dudders has been telling her about the food. Well, they translated "Exploding Snap-Cards" with "Snape explodes". Now *that* game would be a favorite, that's for sure. (Though I'd strongly object to it. A cheering charm or hanging him upside-down by his heels and tickling him would be enough) Dinah From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 15:26:51 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:26:51 EST Subject: pronunciations Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6786 Susan said: << Jim Dale says "Voldemor" (silent t) Stephen Fry says "VoldemorT" (sounds the t) I will always think of him as Voldemor (silent t), because I assumed that there was a play on words and that it referenced the French word for death >> Yes, and we can't forget CMC's "Death Eater Anthem"! V-O-L-D-E-M-O-R-silent T! That was brilliant... Ellie From vderark at bccs.org Wed Dec 13 16:17:46 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:17:46 -0000 Subject: Beacham book In-Reply-To: <3A37523F.32B83503@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <9187fb+j09t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6787 > > I have to admit too that part of me was worried because the book is, in > > some sense, competition to my Lexicon website, so to be fair, I > > WANTED to find errors. Hey, I wanna win.) > > So it's 0 for Beecham, 4 for Hogwarts? You know, the big losers are fans who read that and believe it. It comes across as if it's an authoritative source, but it's not. That's hard for me to take. And yes, I want to be THE source for all this stuff, I admit it. :) > > Completely true. I (as some of you know) am currently writing a fanfiction > which takes place after 4th year, but the next chapter is going to reference > some 3rd year events - and if I hadn't reread PoA the past few days to > refresh my recollection of it, I never would've remembered that Hermione's > Arithmancy class is at the same time as Magical Creatures, and if I had > trusted my instincts, I would've made a *huge* blunder... I don't know if it would be helpful, but there is an exam schedule from PA on the Lexicon. The exams mirror the class schedule, as far as I can tell, so you can see which classes Hermione has at the same time as Ron and Harry. That's probably not the information you need, but it's there all the same. One of these days I'll get a day-by-day calendar done for PA, then you'll be able to tell exactly what classes are when. Check under: Wizarding World > Wizard Places > Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry > Routines, Schedules, and Holidays Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 16:32:36 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:32:36 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 320 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6788 John Walton said: << In one of the on-line chats, someone asked JKR how old is Dumbledore. She answered: '150' and went on to explain that wizards live longer than Muggles and that McGonagall is 'a sprightly 70'. When I previously had thought that wizard folk aged at a rate more similar to Muggles, I had thought she was 63. (Like Hagrid, but now we know that she was either out of school, or at least an upperclassman when Hagrid was in school. That kind of rules out schooldays romance between them.) >> Although it dismisses the possibility of a Hagrid/McGonagall relationship, it places her unnervingly close to the age of Tom Riddle. Ellie From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 16:55:56 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:55:56 EST Subject: Old caretaker (was: Book 5 title) Message-ID: <79.d79acb7.2769041f@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6789 << And just on a side note, somewhere on your website i read the time theory, which was intriguing, but when Mrs. Weasley talks about being caught by the caretaker, i believe that she meant the man who preceeded Filch, not Hagrid. >> I believe you're referring to Appolyon Pringle? In my research for "What's In a Name", I came across a biblical reference: Appolyon is a nickname for the Devil (Rev.9:11). And we thought Filch was bad! Can anyone help me out with a definition for Pringle? All I know right now is that Pringles are pretty tasty potato chips, but that doesn't seem to fit the mold. Ideas? Ellie Rosenthal "What's In a Name?" http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Dec 13 17:20:50 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:20:50 -0000 Subject: Old caretaker (was: Book 5 title) In-Reply-To: <79.d79acb7.2769041f@aol.com> Message-ID: <918b5i+sohu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6790 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > << And just on a side note, somewhere on your website i read the time theory, which was intriguing, but when Mrs. Weasley talks about being caught by the caretaker, i believe that she meant the man who preceeded Filch, not Hagrid. >> > > I believe you're referring to Appolyon Pringle? In my research for "What's In a Name", I came across a biblical reference: Appolyon is a nickname for the Devil (Rev.9:11). And we thought Filch was bad! Can anyone help me out with a definition for Pringle? All I know right now is that Pringles are pretty tasty potato chips, but that doesn't seem to fit the mold. Ideas? > > Ellie Rosenthal There was also a game keeper prior to Hagrid when Mrs. Weasley was a student. He's mentioned in GoF. I think his name is Ogg. :-)Milz From eliasberg at ioc.net Wed Dec 13 17:35:33 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:35:33 -0000 Subject: Hagrid in Gryffindor? In-Reply-To: <3A377FA9.573226BD@swbell.net> Message-ID: <918c15+jb2f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6791 JKR said this in an online chat interview some time back. From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Dec 13 17:34:03 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:34:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New to the list References: <00ac01c0650b$1cf3a8b0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <01fe01c0652b$e1889e40$f843ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6792 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy" > Hello! My name's Amy. I joined a couple days ago and have been trying to play "catch up" ever since. My obsession with Harry Potter is recently aquired...I started reading the books last weekend. Now, I'm completely obsessed. My favoirte book is PoA, and my favorite character is Sirius (of course, you probably saw that coming after I said my favorite book was PoA). I'm amazed at the amount of information out there. Steve...I love your lexicon...I've spent many hours there in the past week:-) > Hi Amy... Yay!! Another Sirius fan!!! I'm deeply in lust with Sirius, much to my husband's chagrin. PoA is my favorite of the four books as well. Just wanted to say welcome and anytime you want to discuss our favorite wizard dog, you can count on me to chime in. carole From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Dec 13 17:36:29 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:36:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Golden Toad Awards References: Message-ID: <01ff01c0652b$e2a46e80$f843ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6793 ----- Original Message ----- From: >> > Where is this site again? My husband crashed the computer AGAIN and I lost > the site. > > Thanks > Tessie Here is the link to the site...I'm assuming the reason you couldn't vote was some site difficulty...I was able to view the ongoing results (I don't think they have closed the polls yet) a couple of nights ago. http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/toadpoll.html carole From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Dec 13 17:39:07 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:39:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 title References: Message-ID: <020001c0652b$e3a95b60$f843ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6794 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Becvar" Welcome Stephanie > Well, thank all > of you so much, it is nice to come home and check my mail and have 10 > messages of analysis and meaning about something that i completely love> Hehehehehe...only 10 messages...that's a light day! Although the volume has been picking up a bit. carole From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 17:46:59 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:46:59 -0000 Subject: Immortality (was: Voldemort and language) In-Reply-To: <010801c064ec$2172b940$483770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <918cmj+5e06@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6795 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Re 'Voldemort' origins: > > I know this is getting pretty obscure, but the word 'mort' (with the 't' sounded) exists in the English language. It's a hunting term - a noun - meaning "a note sounded when the quarry is killed". The origin, according to the OEnD, is "Middle English from Old French from Latin: mors mortis". > I think I prefer the wholly French interpretation of vol-de-mort, which translates both as flight-of-death (I read this one somewhere on this list) and theft-of-death. He flies from death/makes death fly from him and steals death away/steals himself away from death. Thinking of Voldemort's project of immortality, I realized that in other fantasy literature classics the quest of immortality is also viewed as a deep source of evil : In C.S. Lewis the wicked witch steals the apple to become (accursedly) immortal (in The Magicians Nephew). It is also the central theme of Ursula le Guins' third EarthSea book (The Farthest Shore). Do you think there's a Christian undertone in this? I mean, I can easily imagine that in a lot of cultures (Japanese?) not wanting to die is looked down on as cowardly. But here its a terrible sin (mortal!). It seems to me related to the symbiotic connection between death and salvation in Christianity: The death of Jesus is the source of salvation and individual conversions are often experienced as rebirth through death of old self; as a Christian you expect eternal life - but only after (and through death). So to avoid death is to avoid salvation (which explains why Voldemort's unholy resurrection feels so deeply horrible and "unnatural"). Reactions? Naama From rgoertz at austin.rr.com Wed Dec 13 17:47:36 2000 From: rgoertz at austin.rr.com (Ryan Goertz) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:47:36 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster Message-ID: <918cno+chv4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6796 I am not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but the site Dark Horizons has posted the teaser poster for the film. The site: http://www.darkhorizons.com/news-n.htm The image: http://www.darkhorizons.com/news8/p-hp.jpg Cheers, Ryan From vderark at bccs.org Wed Dec 13 17:47:43 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:47:43 -0000 Subject: Old caretaker (was: Book 5 title) In-Reply-To: <79.d79acb7.2769041f@aol.com> Message-ID: <918cnv+7m8t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6797 > Can anyone help me out with a definition for Pringle? All I know > right now is that Pringles are pretty tasty potato chips, but that > doesn't seem to fit the mold. Ideas? The Pringle family were a bunch of self-righteous snobs in Anne of Green Gables. But that's probably not where JKR got it from. Then again...she did name the cat Mrs. Norris after the character in Mansfield Park by Jane Austin... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 17:50:16 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:50:16 -0000 Subject: Bad Translation In-Reply-To: <914epr+l323@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <918cso+fjkj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6798 You translated English to French and back to English? Or did you translate the French version into English? Computer translators are really bad because they don't really look at context. Instead, they basically do word-for-word substitution. Anyway, I've read the Castillian Spanish translations of books 1 and 2 and they are just awful. Things are switched around and left out, most of the names and titles and places are still in English, and there's tons of typos. Dedaleus Diggle is spelled three different ways within a span of 50 or so pages! One thing that I think is interesting, however, is how they change Tom Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE and rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In Spanish, he is TOM SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. How do other languages do this passage? I would be interested to find out. ~Kaitlin From vderark at bccs.org Wed Dec 13 17:55:28 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:55:28 -0000 Subject: Book 5 title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <918d6g+dbse@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6799 > sister. And just on a side note, somewhere on your website i read the time > theory, which was intriguing, but when Mrs. Weasley talks about being caught > by the caretaker, i believe that she meant the man who preceeded Filch, not > Hagrid. I wonder if this doesn't refer to the time theory on the Lexicon? That's a different web site. It's not much of a theory and I should probably update it. I've updated the mysteries page, by the way, listing the Big Questions you guys all suggested to me. I just discovered another little inconsistency...in SS/PS Harry gets lost while roaming the halls at night and comes across a suit of armor. He knows there's a suit of armor like that by the kitchens, but he's at least five floors above that. But he obviously knows where the kitchens are. Of course, by the time he gets to GF, he's forgotten. Fred and George have to clue Hermione in, who then shows Harry and Ron. I suppose the kitchens could have moved around since 1991, but conisdering their relationship with the Great Hall above, it doesnt' seem likely. One more tiny but intriguing mystery to ponder and try to explain. Oh, I know, I know (hand waving Hermione style)-- That memory charm that Lockhart tried on them hit him just a tiny bit and he forgot just a few tidbits of information, that's all. Like where the kitchens were. Yeah, that explains it. Steve ;) The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexiocn From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 18:05:35 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:05:35 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Teaser Poster Message-ID: <9b.e1b24b3.2769146f@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6800 In a message dated 12/13/00 6:01:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rgoertz at austin.rr.com writes: << I am not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but the site Dark Horizons has posted the teaser poster for the film. The site: http://www.darkhorizons.com/news-n.htm The image: http://www.darkhorizons.com/news8/p-hp.jpg >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What a GREAT poster!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tessie From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 13 18:17:52 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:17:52 -0000 Subject: Old caretaker (was: Book 5 title) In-Reply-To: <918b5i+sohu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <918egg+mc03@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6801 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > Can anyone help me out with a definition for Pringle? All I know > right now is that Pringles are pretty tasty potato chips, but that > doesn't seem to fit the mold. Ideas? > > > > Ellie Rosenthal > According to the 1952 Webster's, "pringle" is an obsolete word for "a small silver coin of SCotland." - CMC From joym999 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 18:52:01 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:52:01 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster In-Reply-To: <918cno+chv4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <918ggh+2phf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6802 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ryan Goertz" wrote: > I am not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but the > site Dark Horizons has posted the teaser poster for the > film. > > The site: > http://www.darkhorizons.com/news-n.htm > > The image: > http://www.darkhorizons.com/news8/p-hp.jpg > > Cheers, > > Ryan COOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!!!! Thanks, Ryan. The poster is really nice, better than I expected given the quality of the merchandising artwork. And now the nitpicking starts -- shouldnt the writing on the envelope be in green ink? --Joywitch From chrisworm at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 19:02:44 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:02:44 -0000 Subject: Book 5 title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <918h4k+bce8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6803 If > anyone is interested, and i wont send it out unless people are bc some other > HP fans have been offended, I have an essay i worte for my AP english class > about how Harry Potter fits into the classic fairy tale and i related it to > such classic works as Antigone and more modern works such as Star Wars(Star > Wars is a big chunk of my paper), so If anyone is interested, i would be > more than happy to pop it on here. Wow, i havbe typed a lot, and I have > finals to study for. Oh to be young again ;) Hi' Stephanie, I would love to read your essay! If you don't want to post it, you can mail it to me at chrisworm at hotmail.com. Thanks - and I'm really looking forward! Christine From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 19:10:20 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:10:20 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bad Translation References: <918cso+fjkj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003f01c06538$56e9a2e0$147f06d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6804 > One thing that I think is interesting, however, is how they change > Tom > Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE and > rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In Spanish, he is TOM > SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. > How do other languages do this passage? I would be interested to > find > out. > ~Kaitlin Well, they change it in German, too. Curious thing because it says afterwards: Tom Volorst (hope I got that right) Riddle ist Lord Voldemort Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 19:18:23 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:18:23 +0100 Subject: Essays References: <918h4k+bce8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008101c06539$76d0a3a0$147f06d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6805 Hey Christine, Stephanie and all others who may have hidden treasures about HP!!! I'm currently collecting all kinds of Essays on HP to show them to my English teacher to proof what one can do with the subject, because I want to write my final study (no idea how that's called in English, sorry ) about the books and I'm afraid she will say that it's too childish. So if anyone who has sweated over some kind of article and is willing to share his insights with me (and my teacher) would send it to my addy I'd be forever greatful! Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 19:25:39 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:25:39 +0100 Subject: Timeline Message-ID: <009001c0653a$7ac95fa0$147f06d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6806 I just visited Steve's Lexicon Site and it's really fabulous! And I don't have to figure out the timeline anymore, it really gave me a headache and I scribbled lots of pages full to no avail. I looked at the Timeline of CoS and I have a question: In PoA it is said that Hagrid had been in Azkaban for several months, but it were only three weeks. How come? (*puzzled little kitten look, waving a paw through the air*) Dinah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dorband at uwp.edu Wed Dec 13 19:37:14 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:37:14 -0000 Subject: Essays In-Reply-To: <008101c06539$76d0a3a0$147f06d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <918j5a+lqeq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6807 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > Hey Christine, Stephanie and all others who may have hidden treasures about > HP!!! > > I'm currently collecting all kinds of Essays on HP to show them to my > English teacher to proof what one can do with the subject, because I want to > write my final study (no idea how that's called in English, sorry ) about > the books and I'm afraid she will say that it's too childish. So if anyone > who has sweated over some kind of article and is willing to share his > insights with me (and my teacher) would send it to my addy I'd be forever > greatful! > > Dinah Dinah, You may want to search through our list here for Peg Kerr's "7 Deadly Sins" essays - they are terrific, as everyone here will attest. You may want to ask Peg about actually *using* them for anything, as she *is* the author. They are the most vivid example of the type of essay that you seek. As an aside to Peg - I hope you don't mind this suggestion; I'm sure that your own humility would preclude you from suggesting your *own* writings as such exquisite examples, so forgive me if I've gone too far. Brian From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 13 19:40:06 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:40:06 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Essays References: <918j5a+lqeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009e01c0653c$7f877200$147f06d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6808 > You > may want to ask Peg about actually *using* them for anything, as she > *is* the author. They are the most vivid example of the type of essay > that you seek. Brian, thanks very much for the suggestion. And I don't want to use them really, I just want to show them to my English teacher. I've already collected tons of Articles out of , uh, *reknowned* Magazines and things and I just want to make a folder with about 6 or 7 different articles and give it to her. If she says okay, the topic isn*t all that bad I'll start "ripping apart" the books again and write something myself. Dinah From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Dec 13 19:51:59 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:51:59 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <9169nf+evuq@eGroups.com> <031901c06491$9c330a00$c5c116c2@pnxpg> <001401c06497$ab923920$1ab191d8@computer> Message-ID: <00f701c0653e$8b61e400$b4068cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6809 In addition, the HP text recorded books have Voldermort without the "t" as well as a pronunciation guide from scholastic. Ok, let's get one thing clear. Please bear in mind that even though Jim Dale is a Brit, his reading is that of a pretentious prat overacting. I don't mind which way Voldemort is pronounced. But please, please do not take Jim Dale's readings as gospel. If you get a chance, listen to Stephen Fry. Much wittier and gives a better sense to the whole thing. By the way , this is just my opinion !! Michelle From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 13 20:05:05 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:05:05 -0000 Subject: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <00f701c0653e$8b61e400$b4068cd4@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <918kph+th2f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6810 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > Ok, let's get one thing clear. Please bear in mind that even though Jim > Dale is a Brit, his reading is that of a pretentious prat overacting. I > don't mind which way Voldemort is pronounced. But please, please do not > take Jim Dale's readings as gospel. If you get a chance, listen to > Stephen Fry. Much wittier and gives a better sense to the whole thing. > > By the way , this is just my opinion !! The last thing I would ever want to do is slam someone's opinion - we all have our own personal ways of responding to what we read & what we hear - but I have to take serious issue with Michelle's contention here about Jim Dale (who I have been a fan of ever since his first dragon-related production, as the evil snake oil salesman in Pete's Dragon (I admit, I was 6 at the time, and I thought he was very scary, but still....) I definitely don't think he's overacting, or pretentious, or a prat. I personally, actually, believe that his versions of the books (other than the whinyness he puts in Hermione's voice in book1, which is completely gone by Book 4) are more fun to listen to than Stephen Fry - and I have books 1 & 3 by both (has a Fry version of GoF come out yet anyway?). He makes it more like a radio show by doing more "pronounced" voices (and by that I mean he does each character in a voice which is completely different than every other character) PLUS Jim Dale sings the sorting hat songs, while Stephen Fry doesn't, and that makes then even more perfect, IMHO. Nothing against Stephen Fry - I have actually read some of his books (the ones he's written, not just read on tape) and I have liked a number of his movies (especially IQ, but that was for reasons having nothing to do with him & having everything to do with that being what the man I eventually married & I saw on our first movie date) - I just happen to pref the Jim Dale recordings. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Dec 13 19:56:31 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:56:31 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bumper stickers References: <3A3630A2.99C9412D@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.32.20001212105307.007a4820@mail.madbbs.com> Message-ID: <011a01c06543$586fa5a0$798e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 6811 My personal favourite is "Gryffindor/Slytherin (insert house of choice) wizards have longer wands." Or perhaps "Quidditch players have bigger broomsticks." Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Julia L. Ciesla To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Bumper stickers > I thought it might be more appropriate to say "My Child is a Prefect at > Hogwarts." > > and maybe this is stretching it.. "If you think my Nimbus 2000 is great.. > wait until you see my Firebolt".. oh geez, it almost sounds like a pick-up > line! Hey, *grins* can anyone think of good lines we can use while > scoping around the HP merchandise racks? > > > Julia > > > > > >> "My Child is an Honor Student at Hogwarts"!! > >> > >How about "Get high on cleaning products- PLAY QUIDDITCH!, or > >"My kid went to Hogwarts, and all I got was this stupid bumper > >sticker", or > >(Neil, this one's for you) "My other car is a flying Ford Anglia", or > >even, > >"My other broom is a Firebolt" > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Dec 13 20:01:05 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:01:05 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pronunciation References: <3A36522A.DE32C189@texas.net> Message-ID: <011b01c06543$59bf5720$798e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 6812 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Pronunciation > Sooooo, why, Caius, do you think the British would pronounce Voldemort with a > French accent? I've always thought it would rhyme with "short," not "more." Does > anyone have any evidence for the pronunciation that I'm missing? (audiotapes > don't count; they are an interpretation, not the original.) And am I right about > the British? [I've been told they mispronounced Nazi deliberately, as an insult, > so perhaps it doesn't hold true for all foreign words..?] > > --Amanda I've always heard "Nazi" pronounced with a Germanic z - ie. Naht-zee. But you're probably right about Voldemort - I've always thought of it being pronounced with the t on the end, and I doubt I'm the only one. Given that he's from England though, you can't really blame me. Two other pronunciation related issues. Can someone who's heard the audio versions tell me how Gryffindor and Draco are pronounced? Is it Gryff-IN-dor or GRYFF-in-dor? And does Draco have a long or a short 'a' (ie. Drahco or Drarco?). Jinx From vderark at bccs.org Wed Dec 13 20:31:36 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:31:36 -0000 Subject: Timeline In-Reply-To: <009001c0653a$7ac95fa0$147f06d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <918mb8+72m2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6813 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > I just visited Steve's Lexicon Site and it's really fabulous! Thanks :) > > I looked at the Timeline of CoS and I have a question: In PoA it is said that Hagrid had been in Azkaban for several months, but it were only three weeks. > > How come? (*puzzled little kitten look, waving a paw through the air*) My cat is aging, dust colored, and stares at me with lamp-like eyes, so I am not sure I remember little kitten looks anymore... As for the calendar of CS, I am really quite certain of any dates I put on there. I read very carefully and left out even big events if I couldn't put a pretty solid date to them. I think probably that my calendar is MORE detailed than anything JKR herself put together and that its a continuity error on her part. If you think about it, she was probably thinking that it was several months, just like she's always pictured a thousand students, and didn't realize that she'd written things that contradicted that. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 20:50:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:50:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <916u34+3783@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A37E12D.9BFEC5BA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6814 Susan McGee wrote: > Jim Dale says "Voldemor" (silent t) > Stephen Fry says "VoldemorT" (sounds the t) > > I will always think of him as Voldemor (silent t), because I assumed > that there was a play on words and that it referenced the French word > for death But there's a bunch of "mort-" words in English having to do with death: mortician, mortuary, Morticia (for you Addams fans), etc., that I still got the strong connection even pronouncing the /t/. I thought it was a reference back to the (Latin?) root that English and French both drew on. I might have gone with a silent /t/, except that there was no other even remotely French word in there at all. Until the tournament. --Amanda From chrisworm at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 20:57:20 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:57:20 -0000 Subject: Essays In-Reply-To: <009e01c0653c$7f877200$147f06d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <918nrg+pu17@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6815 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > > You > may want to ask Peg about actually *using* them for anything, as she > > *is* the author. They are the most vivid example of the type of essay > > that you seek. > > Brian, thanks very much for the suggestion. And I don't want to use them > really, I just want to show them to my English teacher. I've already > collected tons of Articles out of , uh, *reknowned* Magazines and things and > I just want to make a folder with about 6 or 7 different articles and give > it to her. If she says okay, the topic isn*t all that bad I'll start > "ripping apart" the books again and write something myself. > > Dinah Hi' Dinah, I've just finished a paper on HP. It concerns the difference between how children and adults read the books, - why has a children's book gotten so popular with adults as well - I'm in teachers college. The paper is in Danish, but if you want, I could do a quick translation and post it for you?!? Christine From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 21:15:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:15:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bad Translation References: <918cso+fjkj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A37E6E3.FC67A6B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6816 Kaitlin wrote: > You translated English to French and back to English? Or did you > translate the French version into English? > Computer translators are really bad because they don't really look at > context. Instead, they basically do word-for-word substitution. Hence "out of sight, out of mind," once translated and re-translated, has returned "invisible idiot." > One thing that I think is interesting, however, is how they change > Tom Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE and > rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In Spanish, he is TOM > SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. How > do other languages do this passage? I would be interested to find out. Me, too! Steve, want to start a Lexicon section? I'd like to see how the different languages manage this--especially Chinese or the other languages which are not alpabetically written. --Amanda From chrisworm at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 21:16:17 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:16:17 -0000 Subject: Immortality (was: Voldemort and language) In-Reply-To: <918cmj+5e06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <918ov1+ut5c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6817 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > > Re 'Voldemort' origins: > > > > I know this is getting pretty obscure, but the word 'mort' (with > the 't' sounded) exists in the English language. It's a hunting term > - a noun - meaning "a note sounded when the quarry is killed". The > origin, according to the OEnD, is "Middle English from Old French > from Latin: mors mortis". > > > > I think I prefer the wholly French interpretation of vol-de-mort, > which translates both as flight-of-death (I read this one > somewhere on this list) and theft-of-death. He flies from death/makes > death fly from him and steals death away/steals himself away from > death. > Thinking of Voldemort's project of immortality, I realized that in > other fantasy literature classics the quest of immortality is also > viewed as a deep source of evil : In C.S. Lewis the wicked witch > steals the apple to become (accursedly) immortal (in The Magicians > Nephew). It is also the central theme of Ursula le Guins' third > EarthSea book (The Farthest Shore). > Do you think there's a Christian undertone in this? I mean, I can > easily imagine that in a lot of cultures (Japanese?) not wanting to > die is looked down on as cowardly. But here its a terrible sin > (mortal!). It seems to me related to the symbiotic connection between > death and salvation in Christianity: The death of Jesus is the source > of salvation and individual conversions are often experienced as > rebirth through death of old self; as a Christian you expect eternal > life - but only after (and through death). So to avoid death is to > avoid salvation (which explains why Voldemort's unholy resurrection > feels so deeply horrible and "unnatural"). Reactions? > > > Naama One word - WOW! Sounds to me like you could be right - also in "Magician's Nephew" there is the whole issue of the apple been what grants immortality, as opposed to the apple being what "takes" immortality away from humans in the Bible. Christine - realising that this has nothing - whatsoever to do with HP! From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 21:18:03 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:18:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teaser Poster References: <918ggh+2phf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A37E78A.684CEE74@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6818 Joywitch wrote: > Thanks, Ryan. The poster is really nice, better than I expected > given the quality of the merchandising artwork. And now the > nitpicking starts -- shouldnt the writing on the envelope be in green > ink? How about: the letters to Harry weren't delivered by owl at all. They came by Muggle post, by magic through any available orifice, and then via Hagrid. No owls carried anything until Hagrid's owl brought him his Daily Prophet. Perhaps this is different in the movie, especially given the shots of them flying a clearly non-snowy owl in the vicinity of the Privet Drive set. --Amanda From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 13 21:23:10 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:23:10 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster In-Reply-To: <3A37E78A.684CEE74@texas.net> Message-ID: <918pbu+rfoc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6819 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > And now the > > nitpicking starts -- shouldnt the writing on the envelope be in green > > ink? > > How about: the letters to Harry weren't delivered by owl at all. They came > by Muggle post, by magic through any available orifice, and then via Hagrid. > No owls carried anything until Hagrid's owl brought him his Daily Prophet. > Perhaps this is different in the movie, especially given the shots of them > flying a clearly non-snowy owl in the vicinity of the Privet Drive set. > Or it could be, as I believe (bourne out by nothing in canon, but it's the only explanation I can find) that the owl post interfaces somehow with the muggle post office, to deliver things from wizards to muggles, and vice versa. For example, if a muggle born wizard sends a letter to a schoolfriend who doesn't know that said wizard is at Hogwarts, the wizard uses a School Owl to take the letter to the Muggle Post Interface Point in the town/area where said schoolfriend lives, and said owl delivers the letter to the Official Interface Point Postal Worker, whose memory is modified on a daily basis by a MoM official whose job it is to apparate around the muggle world for memory modifications - under those circumstances, the first letters to Harry, which were delivered by the Privet Drive Postal Worker, were brought to the post office by owl, and therefore, an owl did, at one point, carry Harry's admission letter, and thus the poster is not inaccurate. But I really just bet that WB boondoggled it. From chrisworm at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 21:25:54 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:25:54 -0000 Subject: Bad Translation In-Reply-To: <918cso+fjkj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <918ph2+ivi1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6820 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > You translated English to French and back to English? Or did you > translate the French version into English? > Computer translators are really bad because they don't really look at > context. Instead, they basically do word-for-word substitution. > Anyway, I've read the Castillian Spanish translations of books 1 and > 2 > and they are just awful. Things are switched around and left out, > most of the names and titles and places are still in English, and > there's tons of typos. Dedaleus Diggle is spelled three different > ways within a span of 50 or so pages! > One thing that I think is interesting, however, is how they change > Tom > Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE and > rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In Spanish, he is TOM > SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. > How do other languages do this passage? I would be interested to > find > out. > ~Kaitlin I've read all the books in English (UK ed.) and I just read SS in Danish. I've actually only found one thing that really ticked me off: The phoenix feather in Harrys wand is translated into a chimaera- horn!!! First of all there is absolutely NO reason for this, the word phoenix does exists in the Danish language. And second it ruins the plot later on. I spoke to a friend who has the Danish editions of all the books, and in GoF it says that it's a phoenix feather - go figure. (LOL imagining the translator dicovering the mistake). Other than that the "mistakes" have to do with words or phrases that do not translate at all. Diagon Alley has become Diagonal Street, and it doesn't really matter, because the play on word can't be translated anyway. Christine From chrisworm at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 21:27:24 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:27:24 -0000 Subject: Bad Translation In-Reply-To: <3A37E6E3.FC67A6B@texas.net> Message-ID: <918pjs+di9s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6821 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Kaitlin wrote: > > > You translated English to French and back to English? Or did you > > translate the French version into English? > > Computer translators are really bad because they don't really look at > > context. Instead, they basically do word-for-word substitution. > > Hence "out of sight, out of mind," once translated and re- translated, has > returned "invisible idiot." > > > One thing that I think is interesting, however, is how they change > > Tom Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE and > > rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In Spanish, he is TOM > > SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. How > > do other languages do this passage? I would be interested to find out. > > Me, too! Steve, want to start a Lexicon section? I'd like to see how the > different languages manage this--especially Chinese or the other languages > which are not alpabetically written. > > --Amanda I'll ask my afore mentioned friend, who has all the books in Danish. Christine From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Dec 13 21:38:19 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:38:19 -0000 Subject: Tom Marvolo Riddle <> I am Lord Voldemort In-Reply-To: <003f01c06538$56e9a2e0$147f06d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <918q8b+crnq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6822 Someone recently posted how the Voldemort anagram from CoS (Tom Marvolo Riddle <> I am Lord Voldemort) is given in the Spanish translation: Tom Sorvolo Ryddle <> Soy Lord Voldemort Here is an interesting site that gives many HP character names in a dozen different translations: http://www.geocities.com/morgenglanz/hp/hpintern.html It includes the following "translations" for Tom Marvolo Riddle: German - Tom Vorlost Riddle Dutch - Marten Asmodom Vilijn Norwegian - Tom Venster Swedish - Tom Gus Malvoro Dolder French - Tom Elvis Jedusor Finnish - Tom Lomen Valedro Hungarian - Tom Rowle Denem Disappointingly, it doesn't give "Voldemort" at all. It only gives "You Know Who" (Du-wei?t-schon-wer, Vous-savez-qui). Scaredy-cats!! Would those with access to the books in different languages mind posting the translation of Lord V's name, and how the anagram is presented (if at all)? I'll post the French tonight. Thanks, -Jim Flanagan From fuelchic at edsamail.com.ph Wed Dec 13 21:48:29 2000 From: fuelchic at edsamail.com.ph (ReeSe) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:48:29 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: AOL Quiz and Delurk... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6823 Wow! Another person in this list who is from the Philippines! :) How many are we now, three?? hehehe Ok , I just had to say this. I rarely speak up in this list and I'm one of those people who just enjoy being in the background. So far, I've enjoyed reading all the posts and its been really great. Reese :) Nathan wrote: > >Oookay... I think it's time to introduce myself to this list. My name's >Nathan, resident of the Philippines, recent college graduate and certified >Pottermaniac. > >Now that THAT'S out of the way > >>On Mon, 11 December 2000, Nick Mitchell wrote: >> >>> I don't agree with the answer to this one. Tom Riddle IS Lord >>Voldemort, not his father. >> >>Ah, but you're forgetting something; Voldie was Tom Riddle *Junior.* > >Yes, when Harry was reliving Riddle's memories in "Chamber", didn't Riddle >say at one point say he was named "Tom for my father, Marvolo for my >grandfather." > >Nathan > __________________________________ www.edsamail.com From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Dec 13 21:59:09 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:59:09 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation In-Reply-To: <011b01c06543$59bf5720$798e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <918rfd+o4mf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6824 According to Jim Dale's tapes, it's GRYFF-in-dor (or -der) and DRAY-co (AY = American style long A). I suppose it would be DRAH-co in Latin. I cringe at "Drarco" -- would that be some sort of regional dialect? > Can someone who's heard the audio versions tell me how Gryffindor > and Draco are pronounced? > > Is it Gryff-IN-dor or GRYFF-in-dor? And does Draco have a long or a short 'a' (ie. Drahco or Drarco?). > > Jinx From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 13 21:51:29 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:51:29 -0600 Subject: Audio Versions References: <918kph+th2f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A37EF61.C5983AB4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6825 Hi -- Anyone else besides Michelle (anti-Jim Dale) and Heidi (pro-Jim Dale) who has heard both the Dale & Fry versions? I've not heard the Fry versions -- I own the cassettes & the CDs of all 4 books and can't really justify springing for another whole set in any format. I seem to recall that some of the British members who had heard both versions also expressed a preference for Jim Dale, but I could be remembering incorrectly. I enjoy the Dale versions enormously. My only real complaint is I don't care for his interpretation of Hermione (and it still doesn't sound to my ear as though he's pronouncing it as Her-my-uh-nee with 4 syllables). I would say that her voice still comes off fairly whiny in my mind even in GoF (Heidi said she thought the whininess had pretty much been eliminated by GoF). But, I enjoy every other aspect of his interpretation so much that I'm willing to forgive him on the Hermione issue, even though she *is* my favorite character! Penny From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 13 22:03:10 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:03:10 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness Message-ID: <918rmu+653c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6826 I've finally got round to tidying up my flat... so thought I'd post a link to my Harry Potter merchandise collection. http://www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/nickHP.jpg Anyone else got a collection like this... or am I the only mad one around here? Nick. From chrisworm at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 22:09:44 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:09:44 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness In-Reply-To: <918rmu+653c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <918s38+p103@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6827 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nick at d... wrote: > I've finally got round to tidying up my flat... so thought I'd post a > link to my Harry Potter merchandise collection. > > http://www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/nickHP.jpg > > Anyone else got a collection like this... or am I the only mad one > around here? > > Nick. Love the mugs!!!! I wish they would go just a little "merchandising-mad" over here. I can't find anything! The stuff probably wont turn up until the movie is out - I would love a Hogwarts mug for Christmas though (deep sigh) Christine From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 13 20:51:10 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:51:10 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <9174kv+m4h9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01bd01c06551$68146fa0$54c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6828 That was a lot to think about. I found my suspicions that Lavender is Carribean or maybe even original African on her name because many of the names in books - even others than HP! - generally do tell much more about their bearers than they would in real life. I never thought about Hermione as anything else but European, can't tell why in this case, and yes I know a few European people with big teeth. LOL catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Rita Winston Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 13 december 2000 07:23 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Isn't Lavender Brown Carribean? > catrina I don't recall ANYTHING in the books indicating that Lavender Brown is Caribbean, altho' the American version of Book 1 states (in the Sorting) that Dean Thomas is a tall Black boy, "even taller than Ron" and I have thought it likely that a Brit who is named Dean Thomas and is black is more likely to be of West Indian ancestry than of directly African ancestry. Since 'Lavender Brown' is a silly name (two colors that don't go together), I had thought she must be from a wizarding family since the wizard folk seem to go in for silly names) until I noticed the scene in PoA where Trelawney sees the Grim in Harry's tea cup. Hermione looks outraged, Dean and Lavender look puzzled, but everyone else looks terrified. I deduced that everyone who was raised in a wizarding family grew up afraid of the Grim, and the Muggle-born may or may not have learned about the Grim from their friends at Hogwarts (as Harry and Hermione learned from Ron). Thus, the conclusion that Lavender Brown is Muggle-born. I would be MUCH HAPPIER if it had been Parvati rather than Lavender who had looked puzzled, as I firmly believe that the Patil twins are Muggle-born. For that matter, I don't have GOOD evidence from the books that Hermione has Caribbean ancestry. In one book, where Harry meets up with her right after summer vacation (in France) and she was 'looking very brown', I always knew that meant she was suntanned more than usual, which in turn means that her winter skin color is not entirely dark (dark enough people don't get darker from sun). There are a mess of people telling me that the description of her hair as 'bushy' means something different than 'nappy', and I myself have met a family of very pale people who have big teeth. I think my opinion may be based more on Hermione reminding me of someone I used to know who had Caribbean ancestors. > -- > /\ /\ > + + Mews and views > >> = << from Rita Prince Winston > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' > (((' (((-((('' (((( > eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 13 20:51:45 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:51:45 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <91753r+9q15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01be01c06551$699fa380$54c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6829 It's Dutch. ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Rita Winston Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 13 december 2000 07:31 ?mne: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > I understand it as a mixture of languages such as vol=full de=of > mort=death. I wonder if this was intended by the author? In what language is "vol" = "full"? In French, vol = flight or vol = theft (once again, I get a chance to tell the story of the French nobleman who commented on Napoleon's confiscation of noble's estates: "C'est le premier vol de l'aigle": it is the first (flight/theft) of the eagle). This gives us the possibilities: Flight from Death (he is striving for immortality) Flight of Death (and where he lands, he kills someone) Theft from Death (he is stealing immortality/life from death) Theft of Death (by killing all those people, he is stealing Death's privilege of ending their lives at the appointed time) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 13 22:11:03 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:11:03 -0000 Subject: Audio Versions Message-ID: <001701c06551$9a721ce0$2f9a7ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6830 Hi all >Anyone else besides Michelle (anti-Jim Dale) and Heidi (pro-Jim Dale) >who has heard both the Dale & Fry versions? I've heard a sample of both saying the same part from Philosophers/Sorcerers Stone... but I don't have the Dale recording of Sorcerers Stone itself. Come to think of it, I'm missing two tapes from the Fry version! >I've not heard the Fry versions -- I own the cassettes & the CDs of all 4 books and can't >really justify springing for another whole set in any format. Well some good news - the BBC are aiming to Webcast on 26th December 12pm-8pm (UK Time) Remember to bookmark the following page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/live_feed.html Real Player (www.real.com) needed. Make sure you are 'tuned in' to the FM frequency broadcast. >I seem to recall that some of the British members who had heard both versions also >expressed a preference for Jim Dale, but I could be remembering incorrectly. You are Penny... I prefer the Dale version - more fun... but that's just me, other Brits may not agree. Nick. From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Dec 13 22:11:15 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:11:15 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <918kph+th2f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011301c06551$a464ce00$b4068cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6831 He makes it more like a radio show by doing more "pronounced" voices (and by that I mean he does each character in a voice which is completely different than every other character) PLUS Jim Dale sings the sorting hat songs, while Stephen Fry doesn't, and that makes then even more perfect, IMHO. This point has made me think. I think what JD and SF try to do with their respective work have to be considered two different things entirely. I can see why you look at the JD work as a radio play. Are there any American radio stations who broadcast programmes where someone just reads from a book for about 15 or 20 minutes ? You see, over here when someone is recorded reading a book, it is just that. The reader usually a famous actor or actress ) doesn't try to play all the roles to such an extent that you forget who the reader is. Heidi, thanks for giving me a new perspective. I might actually be able to face hearing JD's " Goblet " without getting annoyed !! I have to say that I am not fond of the way he makes all the Weasleys whine or his silly MocGonagall voice. But then you can't have everything... Michelle From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 13 22:16:31 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:16:31 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness Message-ID: <001c01c06552$5c0f3cc0$2f9a7ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6832 >I wish they would go just a little "merchandising-mad" over here. I >can't find anything! Where abouts are you Christine... sorry, I foget. Here in the UK there is a lack of merchandise... thus most of what I have is imported from the US. >I would love a Hogwarts mug for Christmas though (deep sigh) I especially like the one with the raised logo - it's from Hallmark... but it's not on their website yet. Nick From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 13 22:28:38 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:28:38 -0000 Subject: (UK) RadioTimes Message-ID: <003301c06554$0c97b120$2f9a7ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6833 Don't think this got mentioned here... appoligies if it did: The Christmas Issue of Radio Times has Harry Potter on the front cover and a feature about the radio programme on 26th December. View the Radio Times Harry Potter Cover - http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/radiotimes-large.jpg Nick. Information provided by www.the-leaky.cauldron.org From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 22:45:55 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:45:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My Paper, Hermione, Movie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6834 Thanks to all who welcomed me aboard! Ok, as I have been busy(taking finals is really just no fun, no time for HP :( ) I wanna catch up and put all my opinions from here onto one nice email. First, to Dinah and anyone else who wants to read my email, i will just send it out. I have to retype it first. I used it as my thesis, when i was considering early graduation, to apply to The NYU English Dept and the Cambridge Eng. Dept. I actually got a letter back from Cambridge, with my acceptance letter(good thing i decided a senior year was important bc i could never aford to go there and would have been pretty put out i couldnt go after getting in) telling me how much they had enjoyed my thesis. I will have to send the letter out with my essay, so those of you who want to read it, be patient. I will hurry just for you guys! Next, the whole race issue. I also believe the Patel twins to be muggles, but it would make sense that Pavrati is NOT shocked by the grim bc she is one of the girls who is so into divination. If you remember her making her horoscope(i believe in GoF, dont shoot me if i am wrong) long before it was due. Hermione, I believe is white mainly bc JK Rowling prob had a say in the casting, and the girl they cast for Hermione is JUST like the way i pictured her to be, same for Ron and Harry. Now i have a question. Is anyone else concerned about the movie. I mean, I am sure it will be fabulous, like they did with Interview With The Vampire(which was almost parallel with the books) But I mean, i am afraid that the movie will spoil the way i see things in my mind, esp placed like Diagon Alley (which sounds like diagonally...i wonder why?) and Hogsmeade. I dont want my imaginations illusion ruined. Well, i just wasted, well not wasted, the 20 min break i took from studying to write this, so I am signing off. Stephanie PS- i know this is OLD, but i loved all the bumper sticker ideas. I wanted to get a shirt made in the "property of____HS format" to say "property of Gryffindor Quidditch" _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Dec 13 22:56:45 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 13 Dec 2000 14:56:45 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchdise Madness Message-ID: <20001213225645.16076.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6835 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Wed Dec 13 22:53:34 2000 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:53:34 -0500 Subject: Dale v. Fry References: Message-ID: <3A37FDEE.418C00C1@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6836 Penny wrote: Anyone else besides Michelle (anti-Jim Dale) and Heidi (pro-Jim Dale) > who has heard both the Dale & Fry versions? I've not heard the Fry > versions -- I own the cassettes & the CDs of all 4 books and can't > really justify springing for another whole set in any format. I seem to > recall that some of the British members who had heard both versions also > expressed a preference for Jim Dale, but I could be remembering > incorrectly. > > I enjoy the Dale versions enormously. My only real complaint is I don't > care for his interpretation of Hermione (and it still doesn't sound to > my ear as though he's pronouncing it as Her-my-uh-nee with 4 > syllables). I would say that her voice still comes off fairly whiny in > my mind even in GoF (Heidi said she thought the whininess had pretty > much been eliminated by GoF). But, I enjoy every other aspect of his > interpretation so much that I'm willing to forgive him on the Hermione > issue, even though she *is* my favorite character! I've listened to all 4 books with Jim Dale, but I've to hear the Fry versions. Tried looking them up via Napster but came up with nothing each time. Guess I know what I'll be doing on Boxing Day. I think Jim Dale is ok. My complaint is that his range of emotion is fairly constricted and his version of Hermione is entirely too whiny. I cringe every time he has Hermione say "HAH-reeeee." Having said that, I think his renditions of Voldemort (with a 't', thank you), Ron and Dumbledore are first rate. And his Fudge is priceless. My husband and I heard (read?) somewhere that Dale came up with close to one hundred voices to get through the series. Each time we listen to the books (which is often with a 7 year old Potter-maniac in the house), hubby can be heard making sacrcastic remarks about Jim Dale's vocal differentiation (eg. "Oh, he's got a new voice there!") Has anybody been able to find those Every Flavor Beans at the WBStore? Anywhere else? They'd make great kid gifts. drpam From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 23:12:11 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:12:11 EST Subject: Bad Translation Message-ID: <23.4e8f605.27695c4c@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6837 Kaitlin said: << One thing that I think is interesting, however, is how they change Tom Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE and rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In Spanish, he is TOM SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. How do other languages do this passage? I would be interested to find out. >> My personal favorite is the French translation, where ol' Voldy becomes Tom Elvis Jedusor. "You ain't nothin' but a Dark lord... cursin' all the time..." Ellie From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 13 23:30:42 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:30:42 -0000 Subject: Fan Sites & Legal Action Message-ID: <004301c0655c$b8036240$2f9a7ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6838 Hi Are you all following what's happening? Back in February, I was threatened with legal action from Warner Brothers regarding my domain name - www.harrypotterisawizard.co.uk I ended up agreeing to hand this over to Warner Brothers rather than taking the case through the courts... but it appears public pressure is now against Warner Brothers. Another site - www.harrypotterguide.co.uk has come under fire from Warner Brothers legal eagles... but this time, support is gathering. details: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/15411.html A recent case in the US (Fielding v Corbett) found against Corbett in that he was trying to sell a domain to a trademark owner. However it also ruled that the use of a trademark name could be legitimate for a fan site. details: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/13725.html I would like to hear from anyone reading this who owns a domain name containing any of the known trademarked names of Warner Brothers. I would also like to hear from you lawyers out there - what do you make of the Fielding v Corbett ruling... can fan sites now exist using domain names which contain trademarks? (note the above link is not to the ruling itself. If anyone finds a link to the exact ruling, please post it). Nick. From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 23:32:39 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:32:39 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean Message-ID: <2b.e891abe.27696117@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6839 In a message dated 12/13/00 2:12:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, wren at thejunkbox.com writes: > hi everyone. i'm new, so forgive me if i'm repeating something already > posted. > > along with dean thomas and angelina, who are explicitly mentioned as black, > lee jordan is described in book 1 i think as having dreadlocks, when he's > first introduced on the hogwarts express as showing off a large spider to > the weasley twins. that could make him of carribean or african decent, > though granted, plenty of white boys wear dreadlocks too (at least in the > US. don't know about UK). > > if he's not black, that would place lee in the white-boy hemp-wearing > stoner-deadhead-reggae crowd, which would make him exactly the sort of > fellow the weasley twins would want to hang out with. i kind of like > imagining him with long blond, dirty dreadlocks with some beads on a hemp > rope around his neck under his robes, but thats just my fancy. > > - wren > Now that is something I had never thought of but it could be true. It's so interesting to hear others perceive the characters! Also makes one wonder if wizard hippies followed the Dead. Maybe the Dead were actually wizards - Jerry at the very least. That, IMO would explain a lot. -Mo Who, upon reading so many introductory posts from new members today, realized that she just jumped right in and did not introduce herself when she joined a few weeks ago as an HP obsessed, middle school history teacher that just today finished her graduate degree! I guess she was just having a senior moment since it's less than a month before she kisses those 20's goodbye. As for where she's from....... ************************************************* "Imagine to be magically whisked away to...Delaware. Hi, I'm in Delaware." - Wayne & Garth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 23:37:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:37:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teaser Poster References: <918pbu+rfoc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A380853.26676751@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6840 heidi tandy wrote: > But I really just bet that WB boondoggled it. I still bet they changed the story so that an owl brought the first letter. Whatcha think? It's not vital to the storyline, really, and it would tighten up the front so there's more time to deal with other stuff later. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 23:41:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:41:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchdise Madness References: <918s38+p103@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A380917.A048AD8C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6841 Christine wrote: > I would love a Hogwarts mug for Christmas though (deep sigh) All I want for Christmas is a Hogwarts mug, a Hogwarts mug, a Hogwarts mug..... --Amanda, wishing she had the original to hand, to do a song a la Caius From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 13 23:43:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:43:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <918kph+th2f@eGroups.com> <011301c06551$a464ce00$b4068cd4@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <3A38099E.78545C70@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6842 Michelle Apostolides wrote: > This point has made me think. I think what JD and SF try to do with > their respective work have to be considered two different things > entirely. I can see why you look at the JD work as a radio play. Are > there any American radio stations who broadcast programmes where someone > just reads from a book for about 15 or 20 minutes ? You see, over here > when someone is recorded reading a book, it is just that. The reader > usually a famous actor or actress ) doesn't try to play all the roles > to such an extent that you forget who the reader is. How do these "styles" compare to Patrick Stewart's CD of A Christmas Carol (*not* the movie just out, but the CD of his one-man show)? The narrative parts are straight reading, but he does do voice characterizations. Anybody heard this, and can compare? --Amanda From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 23:44:11 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:44:11 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bad Translation Message-ID: <57.ed14fc2.276963cb@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6843 In a message dated 12/13/00 4:28:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, chrisworm at hotmail.com writes: > Other than that the "mistakes" have to do with words or phrases that > do not translate at all. Diagon Alley has become Diagonal Street, and > it doesn't really matter, because the play on word can't be > translated anyway. > > I've always wondered about this. There has to be so much lost in the translation. For instance, my favorite line from Ron (below) - is it funny in other languages? I'm going to guess no. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 13 23:49:50 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:49:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book Message-ID: <51.4bb7041.2769651e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6844 In a message dated 12/13/00 11:19:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, vderark at bccs.org writes: > . And yes, I want to be THE source for all this > stuff, I admit it. :) > > Steve, So far you're MY source. (if that counts for anything) Just wanted you to know that I really love your website! -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Dec 14 00:16:31 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:16:31 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Marvolo Riddle <> I am Lord Voldemort In-Reply-To: <918q8b+crnq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6845 >It includes the following "translations" for Tom Marvolo Riddle: > >German - Tom Vorlost Riddle >Dutch - Marten Asmodom Vilijn >Norwegian - Tom Venster >Swedish - Tom Gus Malvoro Dolder >French - Tom Elvis Jedusor >Finnish - Tom Lomen Valedro >Hungarian - Tom Rowle Denem > >Disappointingly, it doesn't give "Voldemort" at all. It only >gives "You Know Who" (Du-weit-schon-wer, Vous-savez-qui). >Scaredy-cats!! Just a note on the French translation... Tom Elvis??!! Am I the only one weirded out by the idea of Elvis as a part of the Wizarding World? Nathan From Joy_Wotton at msn.com Thu Dec 14 00:13:19 2000 From: Joy_Wotton at msn.com (Joy Wotton) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:13:19 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order Story for Salon.com Message-ID: <001801c06562$d6a1c420$6597bc3e@joy> No: HPFGUIDX 6846 Brian Dorband wrote: I am posting this in order to give all a chance to sound off regarding the wand order issue. Who died first? James or Lily? Bad Borders. I went to their shop on Charing Cross Road in London this evening. They are selling the original version of GOBLET for 11.99 and the new version for 14.99 - with no indication at all why the prices are different. Looking at the corrected Wand Order scene I see that the correction fits neatly within the spread and doesn't roll on to the following page. Find it hard to believe that JR rewrote this herself since the simple transposition of mother and father leads to the statement when Lily emerges that Harry sees the woman he has thought of more often than any other that night. But are there ANY other women in Harry's life who are of such overwhelming importance that he would think of them? At the beginning of GOBLET Harry writes to Sirius very much because he has no parent/father. His relationships with Dumbledore and (earlier) with Lupin are shown to also have intense emotional significance, partly in lieu of a father. But I can't see that either Minerva or Mrs Weasley have this sort of charged relationship with him. Perhaps because we have discussed this at length, I find that the first version of the scene (although wrong according to the facts as we know them) makes much more sense because it strengthens our picture of Harry's relationship with his father. The second version doesn't add to our picture of Lily and I find it lacks depth. So shucks. Joy PS Sorry if this has been discussed ad infinitum. I'm hundreds of messages behind and though I've been reading her and there to see if anyone else has made this point I can't find it. From Tallonclaw at aol.com Thu Dec 14 00:20:33 2000 From: Tallonclaw at aol.com (Tallonclaw at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:20:33 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book Message-ID: <21.4e9f507.27696c51@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6847 In a message dated 12/13/00 2:44:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu writes: << I never would've remembered that Hermione's Arithmancy class is at the same time as Magical Creatures, and if I had trusted my instincts, I would've made a *huge* blunder... >> But I thought it was at the same time as Divination, I mean that's the class she took instead after all. From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 00:28:10 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:28:10 -0000 Subject: Fan Sites & Legal Action In-Reply-To: <004301c0655c$b8036240$2f9a7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91946q+aild@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6848 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Hi > > Are you all following what's happening? > > Back in February, I was threatened with legal action from Warner Brothers > regarding my domain name - www.harrypotterisawizard.co.uk > > I ended up agreeing to hand this over to Warner Brothers rather than taking > the case through the courts... > but it appears public pressure is now against Warner Brothers. > Here's a follow up to that case from Yahoo news. As always, there are two sides to every story: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/bpihw/20001210/en/warner_bros_potter_lett er_sought_clarity_1.html (note because of the length of this URL, you may have to cut and paste it into your browser) This was also reported by eonline.com. Warner Bros. states that no one has EVER been asked to shut down a site, that all they were doing is inquiring into whether the site is set up to make money, in which case they WOULD shut it down because it uses a copyrighted name. They said that they routinely send such inquiries and that this girl decided to make a fuss about nothing. If their side of the story is true, the girl sounds like an opportunist to me. I know her site has been getting a couple of thousand hits a day as a result of the hoopla, up from twenty hits a day before the news broke. It's good for business, all this spluttering and hollering. So what exactly happened in your case? Sounds like they've conveniently forgotten all about it when they're trying to sound friendly to the media. Were there any legal actions taken on either side? What exactly did they ask you and what did they tell you to do? If I ever do register a domain for the Lexicon, it won't have Harry Potter in the name, I can tell you. But I do see scans of artwork on sites all over the place that are clearly violating copyright. Why don't they pester those people instead? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From s_ings at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 01:38:20 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:38:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bad Translation Message-ID: <20001214013820.13448.qmail@web208.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6849 --- Kaitlin wrote: > One thing that I think is interesting, however, is > how they change > Tom > Riddle's name. If you recall, he writes out TOM > MARVOLO RIDDLE and > rearranges it to spell I AM LORD VOLDEMORT. In > Spanish, he is TOM > SORVOLO RYDDLE so that when rearranged, it spells > SOY LORD VOLDEMORT. > How do other languages do this passage? I would be > interested to > find > out. > ~Kaitlin I checked the French version, it reads TOM ELVIS JEDUSOR which when rearranged spells JE SUIS VOLDEMORT. Decent enough translation, but 'Elvis'? Sounds rather tacky to me. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From eliasberg at ioc.net Thu Dec 14 01:45:15 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:45:15 -0000 Subject: Fan Sites & Legal Action In-Reply-To: <91946q+aild@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9198nb+jq92@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6850 I went to the site you listed, www.harrypotterisawizard.co.uk, and it lead me to the WB site. Is my browser screwed up? Dave From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 02:46:05 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 02:46:05 -0000 Subject: Languages (OT) Message-ID: <919c9d+7bko@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6851 You guys are just going to have to forgive me for answering a post that is probably dead, buried and rotting in it's grave by now, but I've not caught up on all the messages yet. Anyway the discussions of languages, and why us Yanks are so pitiful at learning them brought up several things in my mind. All of which I might add are very much OT. When traveling in other countries it was stated that English speakers rarely know how to converse with the natives of that country. I must add that while I can speak French a little bit i is not the best. I also found, on a good piece of advice that even if you don't know much trying to say anything in another language will get you a lot farther than staring dumbly and waiting for someone else to talk in your tounge. Most of the time they do know some English and will be glad to use it if only you use your limited knowledge of their's. When it comes to learning other languages early in the schooling process I did have Spanish until the fourth grade when the state abolished it. It can be said though that I never learned much from these classes. All I can remember from these early classes is skpping in a circle and flapping our arms like chickens, so perhaps it is a good thing they were outed. (Or perhaps not, since, flashing forward to High School and my latin class I can clearly recall dancing in conga lines to new vocabulary words, in fact that was last only two weeks ago.) On the subject of Latin which I vaguely recall Simon as dubing "Silly" (Shame!), I just got back from my Latin Club Christmas party. There we played Mythology Charades and Ink Pinks- A Happy Wizard? Merry Harry, of course!!!! Hmmmm, perhaps silly is too mild... The language which I would most like to learn is Welsh. I'm not really sure why, as I can't find a solid and practical reason for it but I still want to learn it. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 03:31:14 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:31:14 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Languages (OT) Message-ID: <21.4e6f562.27699902@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6852 In a message dated 12/13/00 9:46:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes: > When traveling in other countries it was stated that English speakers > rarely know how to converse with the natives of that country. I must > add that while I can speak French a little bit i is not the best. I > also found, on a good piece of advice that even if you don't know > much trying to say anything in another language will get you a lot > farther than staring dumbly and waiting for someone else to talk in > your tounge. Most of the time they do know some English and will be > glad to use it if only you use your limited knowledge of their's. Absolutely! I've always found people have a smile when I try their language out - although they are probably just smiling because the are thinking "ignorant American." After you sputter like a fool, they usually let you off the hook and talk to you in near-perfect English. If you look at it geographically, it is almost a necessity for Europeans to learn a common language because of the close proximity countries have to one another. The US is isolated, most states only border on other states and the common language dates back to our start. Culturally, it was never a necessity for us to learn another language. > When it comes to learning other languages early in the schooling > process I did have Spanish until the fourth grade when the state > abolished it. It can be said though that I never learned much from > these classes. All I can remember from these early classes is > skpping in a circle and flapping our arms like chickens, so perhaps > it is a good thing they were outed. (Or perhaps not, since, flashing > forward to High School and my latin class I can clearly recall > dancing in conga lines to new vocabulary words, in fact that was last > only two weeks ago.) Unfortunately in the US, someone, at some point in the development of our schools' curriculum, decided that languages should be taught in the latter grades. I didn't receive a language until High School - age 15. I know Oui and that's about it. Spanish in college produced similar results, si? If you look at the research, I believe that it's sometime after the age of 11 or 12, (around puberty) that humans loose the ability to learn language easy - it's a brain thing. Something about the pathways becoming so set for English, we loose the others that would have helped learn other languages. We don't use them, we loose them. If you look at the research, children that are taught (properly) at a very young age do not struggle at all. They develop perfect accents and are able to switch between languages without even thinking about it. > There we played Mythology Charades and Ink Pinks- > > A Happy Wizard? > > Merry Harry, of course!!!! > > Ink Pinks! Thanks! So weird that you mention them. Just the other day I > was trying to remember what they were. I have a very vague memory of them > from grade school. I think we may have called them Hink Pinks.) Thanks! -Mo **************************** "To me, imagination is a place all by itself." - Kris Kringle, Miracle on 34th Street. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 14 03:47:00 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:47:00 EST Subject: Teaser Poster Message-ID: <5a.e5d9981.27699cb4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6853 But the title of the film is Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.............. Are the folks at Dark Horizon's aware of this...? ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 04:48:36 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:48:36 -0600 Subject: (OT) References: <919c9d+7bko@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c06589$1fd74360$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 6854 Hi Folks. Sorry about the silence. I am now working with two strikes against me--first AOL (urgh) and the second the GI flu. I'll get back in the swing I hope soon! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 14 03:50:50 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:50:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dale v. Fry Message-ID: <39.de1bede.27699d9a@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6855 In a message dated 12/13/2000 3:00:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, pbarhug at tidalwave.net writes: << Has anybody been able to find those Every Flavor Beans at the WBStore? Anywhere else? They'd make great kid gifts. >> I'd be afraid to eat them.....all those 'surprise flavors'. Of course, the kids must just LOVE them! :) The WB ones come with the mug, I'll take that, the kids can have the beans....:) ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 14 03:53:47 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:53:47 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchdise Madness Message-ID: <5b.f1fcbdc.27699e4b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6856 In a message dated 12/13/2000 3:00:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, voicelady at mymailstation.com writes: << Oh, you're not mad. Because if you were, then we'd ALL be mad! I do have quite a collection myself, but I'd say that yours is a bit more extensive than mine. My collection at the moment only takes up two shelves. But that's only for the time being. >> I have the books, mugs, a few owls, mostly Hedwig *G* stuff. It's all over my office at work. But the VP has a HP Costume hanging in her office, as well as a few prototype HP statues, so the fever extends to everyone in the building, which is nice to see:) ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 14 03:55:24 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:55:24 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchdise Madness Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6857 In a message dated 12/13/2000 3:41:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: << > I would love a Hogwarts mug for Christmas though (deep sigh) >> Who wanted this? E-mail me. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 14 03:56:51 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:56:51 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order Story for Salon.com Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6858 In a message dated 12/13/2000 4:19:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Joy_Wotton at msn.com writes: << Looking at the corrected Wand Order scene I see that the correction fits neatly within the spread and doesn't roll on to the following page. >> Ok, I think I'm missing something here. Have there been changes to the printed version of the first run books? Please tell me no because I don't want to have to get them again! ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Dec 14 04:01:02 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:01:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Teaser Poster Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6859 It will be The Philosopher's Stone in England, bc that is the name of the book there...I am feeling dumb...but why would the ink on the envelope be green? did i miss a detail somewhere? Stephanie _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From joym999 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 04:16:43 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:16:43 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster In-Reply-To: <5a.e5d9981.27699cb4@aol.com> Message-ID: <919hjb+nrgo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6860 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > But the title of the film is Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's > Stone.............. > > Are the folks at Dark Horizon's aware of this...? > My understanding is that the movie will be released as Sorcerer's Stone in the U.S. and Philosopher's Stone in the U.K., just like the books. Any scenes that mention the words Sorcerer or Philosopher will be shot twice. Sorry, but I do not remember where I read that; it was months ago. --Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 04:20:42 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:20:42 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <919hqq+t1go@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6861 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > Are the folks at Dark Horizon's aware of this...? > ~Hedwig~ > "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo."> > > It will be The Philosopher's Stone in England, bc that is the name of the > book there...I am feeling dumb...but why would the ink on the envelope be > green? did i miss a detail somewhere? Yes, you missed a detail. How dare you! We may have to throw you out for not being obsessive enough . Reread chapter 3 of SS/PS, it says there that the ink is green. --Joywitch From nlpnt at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 04:40:32 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:40:32 -0000 Subject: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <03e801c064d0$b01a4260$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <919j00+jihl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6862 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > books have Voldermort without the "t" as well as a pronunciation guide > from > > scholastic. > > One site I visited had recorded samples for lots of HP-related words but for > Voldemort it said "shh -- he who must not be named!" :-) > > Simon. That sounds like the Scholastic guide; the first time you click on "Voldemort" it says "shh -- he who must not be named"; the second time it says "You-Know-Who", the third it says "Voldemore" I've always pronounced the "T"; I just can't imagine people who'd park their PEW-jot in the GARE-ij (if they were Muggles) would use the French pronounciation of a made-up name :) From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 04:41:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:41:59 -0000 Subject: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <3A37E12D.9BFEC5BA@texas.net> Message-ID: <919j2n+inrc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6863 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Jim Dale says "Voldemor" (silent t) > > Stephen Fry says "VoldemorT" (sounds the t) > > > > I will always think of him as Voldemor (silent t), because I assumed > > that there was a play on words and that it referenced the French word > > for death > > But there's a bunch of "mort-" words in English having to do with death: > mortician, mortuary, Morticia (for you Addams fans), etc., that I still got > the strong connection even pronouncing the /t/. But they have letters after the t -- which in French would cause the T to be pronounced. Death in French is pronounced with a silent "t". I would speculate that it is a JKR play on words combining the German with the French and it means full of death From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 04:47:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:47:32 -0000 Subject: And speaking of Christmas/charity In-Reply-To: <20001213044433.12713.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <919jd4+inpk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6864 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Sheryll Townsend wrote: > Interesting you should post this. I called our local > shelter last week asking if there was anyone I could > help with gifts this year. I just finished the > shopping yesterday. > > Sheryll > --- Susan McGee wrote: > > As I think I have mentioned I am the director of the > > battered women's > > shelter in Ann Arbor. Each year, we collect > > donations from the > > community and give them out to about 500 women and > > kids. > > > > We have a wish list, and of COURSE, high on it is > > anything HP (Rank > > has SOME privileges. I was thrilled to notice a > > dozen copies of all > > the HP books coming in.......(We also have a wish > > list on Amazon.com > > under DVPSH at a...) > > > > Anyway, I'd like everyone who can afford it to > > consider making a > > donation of one of the books to your local shelter. > > You can find them > > by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or email me privately, > > and I'll find them > > for you! > > > > Susan > > > > Thanks for doing that, Sheryll From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 04:50:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:50:32 -0000 Subject: Old caretaker (was: Book 5 title) In-Reply-To: <918cnv+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <919jio+99mu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6865 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > > Can anyone help me out with a definition for Pringle? All I know > > right now is that Pringles are pretty tasty potato chips, but that > > doesn't seem to fit the mold. Ideas? > > The Pringle family were a bunch of self-righteous snobs in Anne of > Green Gables. But that's probably not where JKR got it from. Then > again...she did name the cat Mrs. Norris after the character in > Mansfield Park by Jane Austin... > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Oh my goodness! I was just about to post about the Pringles (who Anne routed) in Anne of Green Gables. I'm astonished that anyone else has read ALL those books. Susan From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Dec 14 04:50:09 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:50:09 +1100 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone References: <5a.e5d9981.27699cb4@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301c06589$59172d70$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6866 Sorry but I must ask this: What is a Sorcerer's Stone? Now I thought the Philosopher's Stone was the missing ingredient needed to change base metals into gold, and it was searched for by the alchemists, eg. Flamel. If I remember, this was actually mentioned in HP-PS. I understand that the Americans changed the title to Sorcerer's Stone. Did they also change it right through the book? Is the historical Philosopher's Stone actually called a 'sorcerer's stone' in America? I just can't get my head around that. Simon. From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 04:55:31 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:55:31 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster In-Reply-To: <919hqq+t1go@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <919js3+8fhh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6867 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" > wrote: > > Stone.... > > Are the folks at Dark Horizon's aware of this...? > > ~Hedwig~ > > "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo."> > > > > It will be The Philosopher's Stone in England, bc that is the name > of the > > book there...I am feeling dumb...but why would the ink on the > envelope be > > green? did i miss a detail somewhere? > > Yes, you missed a detail. How dare you! We may have to throw you > out for not being obsessive enough . Reread chapter 3 of SS/PS, > it says there that the ink is green. > Of course the ink is GREEN!...What's the matter with those people? Why don't they use US as consultants? Having said that, the poster is incredible. I love it. Let me do my three year old son imitation... I want it. I want that poster. Actually, Mommy, I would like that poster, plese. Could I have it now? I would run to the Saline Picture Shop to have it framed....... Susan > --Joywitch From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Dec 14 04:56:12 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:56:12 +1100 Subject: pronunciations References: <919j00+jihl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002501c0658a$313df490$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6868 > I've always pronounced the "T"; I just can't imagine people who'd > park their PEW-jot in the GARE-ij (if they were Muggles) would use > the French pronounciation of a made-up name :) What is a PEW-jot? If it's what I'm thinking, I say PER-zhoe! Simon. From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 05:00:19 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:00:19 -0000 Subject: Audio Versions In-Reply-To: <001701c06551$9a721ce0$2f9a7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <919k53+p1p2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6869 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Hi all > > >Anyone else besides Michelle (anti-Jim Dale) and Heidi (pro-Jim Dale) > >who has heard both the Dale & Fry versions? > > I've heard a sample of both saying the same part from Philosophers/Sorcerers > Stone... but I don't have the Dale recording of Sorcerers Stone itself. > Come to think of it, I'm missing two tapes from the Fry version! > > >I've not heard the Fry versions -- I own the cassettes & the CDs of all 4 > books and can't > >really justify springing for another whole set in any format. > > Well some good news - the BBC are aiming to Webcast on 26th December > 12pm-8pm (UK Time) > Remember to bookmark the following page: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/live_feed.html Real Player (www.real.com) > needed. > Make sure you are 'tuned in' to the FM frequency broadcast. > > >I seem to recall that some of the British members who had heard both > versions also > >expressed a preference for Jim Dale, but I could be remembering > incorrectly. > > You are Penny... I prefer the Dale version - more fun... but that's just me, > other Brits may not agree. > > Nick. I justified my purchase of Fry's the PS by planning on giving it to my partner for Christmas. BUT, it's in my hot little hands right now, and I am listening to it. I'm enjoying it -- it's fun -- he's good -- but he does not differentiate the voices in the way Jim Dale does. With Fry, you know you are listening to someone reading, with Dale, you get far more caught up in the story. Re: Hermione -- however you pronounce her........JKR was the one who made her a pain in the first book (although she almost immediately starts to redeem herself --- remember SHE is the one who takes action immediately to save Harry when Quirrell was trying to kill him during the Quidditch match --she thought it was Snape, but knocked over Q while going to Snape. And she sets fire to his cloak without him being able to figure out what happened...!!! And she's a first year? Very talented, that young woman Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 05:05:43 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:05:43 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness/my new watch In-Reply-To: <20001213225645.16076.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <919kf7+ojpl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6870 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Wed, 13 December 2000, nick at d... wrote: > > > Anyone else got a collection like this... or am I the only mad one around here? > > Oh, you're not mad. Because if you were, then we'd ALL be mad! > > I do have quite a collection myself, but I'd say that yours is a bit more extensive than mine. My collection at the moment only takes up two shelves. But that's only for the time being. > > Voicelady > current book: rereading Peg's Wild Swans > Current CD: the best of Badfinger > _____________________________________________________________ > This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark > of CIDCO Incorporated. Oh, I envy your collection......don't have quite so much..but have all the U.S. books, all the U.K. versions, all the Jim Dale tapes, am starting on the Fry tapes...a Muggles for Harry Potter poster on my back door, gave my partner a Hogwarts teeshirt about two days after they came out--- we had people who we barely knew come up and excitedly discuss HP with us -- mugs....AND today my partner gave me an early Christmas present -- the Golden Snitch Harry Potter WATCH!!!!! It is very exciting... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 05:17:15 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:17:15 -0000 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone In-Reply-To: <001301c06589$59172d70$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <919l4r+2c47@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6871 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > Sorry but I must ask this: What is a Sorcerer's Stone? > > Now I thought the Philosopher's Stone was the missing ingredient needed to > change base metals into gold, and it was searched for by the alchemists, eg. > Flamel. If I remember, this was actually mentioned in HP-PS. I understand > that the Americans changed the title to Sorcerer's Stone. Did they also > change it right through the book? Is the historical Philosopher's Stone > actually called a 'sorcerer's stone' in America? > > I just can't get my head around that. > > Simon. I apologize in advance for offending anyone with the vehemence of my reaction. I was born and live in the U.S. although after today I might move. There is of course NO SUCH THING as a "sorcerer's stone". The only way the book title makes SENSE is to call it the Philosopher's Stone, since that relates to Nicholas Flamel, alchemy, immortality, etc. Some idiots decided that no self respecting U.S. boy would buy a book called the Philosopher's Stone. Obviously too wimpy and wussy and it might emasculate him if he is seen reading it. So it was changed to the Sorcerer's Stone here in the U.S.A. (insulting most of us I would like to suggest). Adding insult to this idiocy, they are continuing to do it for the film...has anyone noticed that the books have uh, sold in the U.S., and most likely would continue to sell if the title were changed back? (voice dripping with intentional sarcasm) Susan who has bought ALL of her friends the PS and not the SS From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 14 05:20:30 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:20:30 -0000 Subject: Languages (OT) In-Reply-To: <21.4e6f562.27699902@aol.com> Message-ID: <919lau+opjf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6872 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/13/00 9:46:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > harry_potter00 at y... writes: > > > > When traveling in other countries it was stated that English speakers > > rarely know how to converse with the natives of that country. I must > > add that while I can speak French a little bit i is not the best. I > > also found, on a good piece of advice that even if you don't know > > much trying to say anything in another language will get you a lot > > farther than staring dumbly and waiting for someone else to talk in > > your tounge. Most of the time they do know some English and will be > > glad to use it if only you use your limited knowledge of their's. > > Absolutely! I've always found people have a smile when I try their language > out - although they are probably just smiling because the are thinking > "ignorant American." After you sputter like a fool, they usually let you off > the hook and talk to you in near-perfect English. > If you look at it geographically, it is almost a necessity for Europeans to > learn a common language because of the close proximity countries have to one > another. The US is isolated, most states only border on other states and the > common language dates back to our start. Culturally, it was never a > necessity for us to learn another language. > > > When it comes to learning other languages early in the schooling > > process I did have Spanish until the fourth grade when the state > > abolished it. It can be said though that I never learned much from > > these classes. All I can remember from these early classes is > > skpping in a circle and flapping our arms like chickens, so perhaps > > it is a good thing they were outed. (Or perhaps not, since, flashing > > forward to High School and my latin class I can clearly recall > > dancing in conga lines to new vocabulary words, in fact that was last > > only two weeks ago.) > > Unfortunately in the US, someone, at some point in the development of our > schools' curriculum, decided that languages should be taught in the latter > grades. I didn't receive a language until High School - age 15. I know Oui > and that's about it. Spanish in college produced similar results, si? If > you look at the research, I believe that it's sometime after the age of 11 or > 12, (around puberty) that humans loose the ability to learn language easy - > it's a brain thing. Something about the pathways becoming so set for > English, we loose the others that would have helped learn other languages. > We don't use them, we loose them. If you look at the research, children that > are taught (properly) at a very young age do not struggle at all. They > develop perfect accents and are able to switch between languages without even > thinking about it. > > > > There we played Mythology Charades and Ink Pinks- > > > > A Happy Wizard? > > > > Merry Harry, of course!!!! > > > > Ink Pinks! Thanks! So weird that you mention them. Just the other day I > > was trying to remember what they were. I have a very vague memory of them > > from grade school. I think we may have called them Hink Pinks.) Thanks! > > > > -Mo > **************************** Interesting. I didn't start Latin until 9th grade and had a little German and ancient Greek and modern Greek in college. I can speak some modern Greek but the language I do best in is French. They had an experiment in my school that started teaching us French in second grade. I was stunned to find out that I could read French newspapers on the net, and when I was in Hanoi...but clearly that's the language that "stuck" the best.. S From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Dec 14 05:23:09 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:23:09 +1100 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone References: <919l4r+2c47@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006c01c0658d$f3c964b0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6873 Ok thanks for the reply, it makes sense, some Americans can be rather stupid :-) But you didn't say whether they changed it to SS right through the book or just on the title. Simon. > I apologize in advance for offending anyone with the vehemence of my > reaction. I was born and live in the U.S. although after today I > might move. > > There is of course NO SUCH THING as a "sorcerer's stone". The only > way the book title makes SENSE is to call it the Philosopher's Stone, > since that relates to Nicholas Flamel, alchemy, immortality, etc. > Some idiots decided that no self respecting U.S. boy would buy a book > called the Philosopher's Stone. Obviously too wimpy and wussy and it > might emasculate him if he is seen reading it. So it was changed to > the Sorcerer's Stone here in the U.S.A. (insulting most of us I would > like to suggest). Adding insult to this idiocy, they are continuing > to do it for the film...has anyone noticed that the books have uh, > sold in the U.S., and most likely would continue to sell if the title > were changed back? (voice dripping with intentional sarcasm) > > Susan who has bought ALL of her friends the PS and not the SS From wren at thejunkbox.com Thu Dec 14 05:25:42 2000 From: wren at thejunkbox.com (wren lanier) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:25:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sorcerer's Stone In-Reply-To: <001301c06589$59172d70$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6874 i'm an american, and i knew what the hell the Philosopher's Stone was. no, there is no concept of "sorceror's stone" in america, and yes, they changed it all through the book. the sorceror's stone was referred to in the books like just another magical object , instead of a larger idea associated with alchemy like a philosopher's stone. it pisses me off that "they" (whoever they are) assume that just because we're american we need a dumbed-down version of the books. i say give us the originals and let the stupid fend for themselves. wren Sorry but I must ask this: What is a Sorcerer's Stone? Now I thought the Philosopher's Stone was the missing ingredient needed to change base metals into gold, and it was searched for by the alchemists, eg. Flamel. If I remember, this was actually mentioned in HP-PS. I understand that the Americans changed the title to Sorcerer's Stone. Did they also change it right through the book? Is the historical Philosopher's Stone actually called a 'sorcerer's stone' in America? I just can't get my head around that. Simon. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nlpnt at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 05:36:15 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:36:15 -0000 Subject: Fan Sites & Legal Action In-Reply-To: <9198nb+jq92@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <919m8f+g9eg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6875 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eliasberg at i... wrote: > I went to the site you listed, www.harrypotterisawizard.co.uk, and > it lead me to the WB site. Is my browser screwed up? > > Dave All this would be much easier if there were some sort of regulation stating that only ONE url could lead to a given site... Perhaps even a ".fan" domain in which trademark holders would be expressly forbidden from registering their trademarks (with appropriate penalties for attempted registry under an employee or relative's name- possibly even loss of trademark in extreme cases). From nlpnt at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 05:45:28 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:45:28 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster In-Reply-To: <918pbu+rfoc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <919mpo+g5qj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6876 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > Or it could be, as I believe (bourne out by nothing in canon, but > it's the only explanation I can find) that the owl post interfaces > somehow with the muggle post office, to deliver things from wizards > to muggles, and vice versa. Owl to take the letter to the > Muggle Post Interface Point in the town/area where said schoolfriend > lives, and said owl delivers the letter to the Official Interface > Point Postal Worker, whose memory is modified on a daily basis by a > MoM official whose job it is to apparate around the muggle world for > memory modifications I like that explanation; only wouldn't it be easier to put wizards in as postal workers, fairly close to large sources of outgoing wizard mail? And am I the only one who thought "Philosopher's Stone" looks weird in the font used on the American books? From twinksuk at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 21:13:22 2000 From: twinksuk at hotmail.com (~ Leyo ~) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:13:22 -0000 Subject: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6877 > > Isn't Lavender Brown Carribean? > > catrina > >I don't recall ANYTHING in the books indicating that Lavender Brown >is Caribbean, altho' the American version of Book 1 states (in >the Sorting) that Dean Thomas is a tall Black boy, "even taller than >Ron" and I have thought it likely that a Brit who is named Dean >Thomas and is black is more likely to be of West Indian ancestry than >of directly African ancestry. That's strange, although I only quickly read through the train journey and sorting ceremony in the English edition, I found no reference at all to Dean Thomas, let alone to him being black. I thought it odd that even during the sorting, he is not mentioned! Harry is sorted into Gryffindor, then Turpin, Lisa is placed in Ravenclaw. Dean Thomas should have been in between Harry and Lisa Turpin. Is this different in the American edition? About Lavender, the name immediatly struck me as English. JKR leaves some of the characters quite undescribed, and they are no doubt open to the reader's interpretation, so Lavender could be black, as I cannot recall any mention of her race. BTW, I'm fairly new to this list, I've been reading only for a bit and find your discussions very interesting. It's so much more complex than anything I've come across previously, and has certainly led me to look at the books in quite a different light! Leyo ----------------------------------------------------------- The Northen Star is constant, a light always there to guide you. I however, am but a fluttering upon the millenia, my presence in your life even briefer than my own short existence. ------------------------------------------------------------ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Dec 14 07:04:28 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:04:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sorcerer's Stone Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6878 Heck, I am 16 and knew what the Philosophers stone was....but Americans in general have to be different. I would assume they would be the publishers. But, get used to it, everyone treats poor america like the heathen nation ;) But like everyone else, i dont see the point in changing the title. It was like with Austin Powers, when they released it in england the company tried to have it the sy who ... me, i mean if americans know what shagging is and can deal with it, well really (i apologize for using that movie as the example, it just happened to be there) As for the scholastic quiz, i just got all the questions right(7th try...boy did i feel dumb) and i put Hagrid in gryffindor and it was correct. Maybe they have altered it? A Stupid American ;) Stephanie PS- I am interested in Cambridge and OXford, but as a US student i dont know how well this would work. Is there andyone from England on the list who could tell me about the areas? (I am bowing and scraping for forgiveness bc of my off topicness) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 14 08:15:53 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:15:53 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation Message-ID: <01C06602.BEEDD800.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6879 Watch it Dinah - you are amongst some very serious Snape lovers here - greasy hair and all! -----Original Message----- From: Dinah [SMTP:mzettl at freenet.de] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 12:29 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation > Now, she doesn't mean the sound that it makes in his belly, does she? > Because that's how they translated it." > > LOL! That's not the way I would have read it! I think its more likely that she > doesn't like what Dudders has been telling her about the food. Well, they translated "Exploding Snap-Cards" with "Snape explodes". Now *that* game would be a favorite, that's for sure. (Though I'd strongly object to it. A cheering charm or hanging him upside-down by his heels and tickling him would be enough) Dinah To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From Joy_Wotton at msn.com Thu Dec 14 08:48:53 2000 From: Joy_Wotton at msn.com (Joy Wotton) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:48:53 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order Story for Salon.com Message-ID: <000601c065aa$c8a6e380$1597bc3e@joy> No: HPFGUIDX 6880 >Joy: Looking at the corrected Wand Order scene I see that the correction fits neatly within the spread and doesn't roll on to the following page. >> > >Hedwig: Ok, I think I'm missing something here. Have there been changes to the printed version of the first run books? Yes - and it's pretty poor behaviour on Bloomsbury's part. No indication that the text has changed is given on the back of the title page where all the imprint info appears. Joy From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 14 09:03:19 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:03:19 +1100 Subject: Lavender and Dean (was Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors Message-ID: <01C06609.002F1BC0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6881 Leyo - the american versions are different. Then english version doesn't mention that Dean is black. Dean's insertion caused a bit of a problem that some one else (since I have lend my copy again!) will have to describe - but its something about the number of students left to be sorted after Harry. AND, since I've been off line for a while I've missed the re-write of GOF - Who comes out of the wand first - can someone give me a brief summary? Thanks in advance. storm -----Original Message----- From: ~ Leyo ~ [SMTP:twinksuk at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:13 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors > > Isn't Lavender Brown Carribean? > > catrina > >I don't recall ANYTHING in the books indicating that Lavender Brown >is Caribbean, altho' the American version of Book 1 states (in >the Sorting) that Dean Thomas is a tall Black boy, "even taller than >Ron" and I have thought it likely that a Brit who is named Dean >Thomas and is black is more likely to be of West Indian ancestry than >of directly African ancestry. That's strange, although I only quickly read through the train journey and sorting ceremony in the English edition, I found no reference at all to Dean Thomas, let alone to him being black. I thought it odd that even during the sorting, he is not mentioned! Harry is sorted into Gryffindor, then Turpin, Lisa is placed in Ravenclaw. Dean Thomas should have been in between Harry and Lisa Turpin. Is this different in the American edition? About Lavender, the name immediatly struck me as English. JKR leaves some of the characters quite undescribed, and they are no doubt open to the reader's interpretation, so Lavender could be black, as I cannot recall any mention of her race. BTW, I'm fairly new to this list, I've been reading only for a bit and find your discussions very interesting. It's so much more complex than anything I've come across previously, and has certainly led me to look at the books in quite a different light! Leyo ----------------------------------------------------------- The Northen Star is constant, a light always there to guide you. I however, am but a fluttering upon the millenia, my presence in your life even briefer than my own short existence. ------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 14 09:11:11 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:11:11 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sorcerer's Stone Message-ID: <01C0660A.1675D120.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6882 Go Susan! LOL! I won't be too bothered moving but, everywhere is the same, Its only in HP that the *our team* (who ever they may be) win all the time, most of the time decisions are made on the basis of expediency and money. At least the US is fairly comfortable if you are wealthy enough. storm -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 3:17 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sorcerer's Stone --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > Sorry but I must ask this: What is a Sorcerer's Stone? > > Now I thought the Philosopher's Stone was the missing ingredient needed to > change base metals into gold, and it was searched for by the alchemists, eg. > Flamel. If I remember, this was actually mentioned in HP-PS. I understand > that the Americans changed the title to Sorcerer's Stone. Did they also > change it right through the book? Is the historical Philosopher's Stone > actually called a 'sorcerer's stone' in America? > > I just can't get my head around that. > > Simon. I apologize in advance for offending anyone with the vehemence of my reaction. I was born and live in the U.S. although after today I might move. There is of course NO SUCH THING as a "sorcerer's stone". The only way the book title makes SENSE is to call it the Philosopher's Stone, since that relates to Nicholas Flamel, alchemy, immortality, etc. Some idiots decided that no self respecting U.S. boy would buy a book called the Philosopher's Stone. Obviously too wimpy and wussy and it might emasculate him if he is seen reading it. So it was changed to the Sorcerer's Stone here in the U.S.A. (insulting most of us I would like to suggest). Adding insult to this idiocy, they are continuing to do it for the film...has anyone noticed that the books have uh, sold in the U.S., and most likely would continue to sell if the title were changed back? (voice dripping with intentional sarcasm) Susan who has bought ALL of her friends the PS and not the SS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 14 09:26:12 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:26:12 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 23: The Yule Ball Message-ID: <01C0660C.20898CE0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6883 "The Dursleys (boo, hiss) give Harry a single tissue ("an all-time low")." This always bothers me a bit - Why do they give him anything at all? Surely the insult takes more thought than nothing? (but it is funny!) "Harry and Ron basically ignore Parvati and Padma (to shouts of joy from all the Ha/He and He/Ro [and, for that matter, Ha/Ro] shippers)," "Question: While being served at Top Table, Hermione isn't thinking about SPEW. Do we reconsider our opinion of her and her commitment because of this?" How do we know she doesn't think of the house elves - she has long since given up not eating as a protest (or are you joking and I'm taking it all FAR too seriously?) Hermione must keep the faith! "When I am an Evil Overlord...#109 I will see to it that plucky young lads/lasses in strange clothes and with the accent of an outlander shall regularly climb some monument in the main square of my capital and denounce me, claim to know the secret of my power, rally the masses to rebellion, etc. That way, the citizens will be jaded in case the real thing ever comes along." Love these! storm -----Original Message----- From: John Walton [SMTP:john at walton.to] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 11:16 AM To: hpforgrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 23: The Yule Ball John Walton john at walton.to ======================================== To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 14 09:40:36 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:40:36 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character: Minerva McGonagall and PWD Message-ID: <01C0660E.20EC3460.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6884 Description: Generally severe. Hair in a bun. Scottish accent, especially prominent on the Jim Dale audiotapes. Wears square glasses (her feline form retains these in the form of square markings around her eyes). This is the same for Rita Skeeter (ie her glasses become part of her beatle markings) How does this happen? Has Minerva been wearing the same pair of glasses since childhood (as some one who wears glasses this seems unlikely to me) and anyway, who does she buy the glasses from - the optometrist? - seems unlikely and (while I'm on it) there don't seem to be other wizards/witches with disabilities/impediments/handicaps (insert your own term) Where are they? Can the whole 'not perfect' thing be fixed or are (gasp) "the deformed" hidden away? How deformed do you have to be to suffer this indignity (if that is what happens) What happens to the W/W with CP? Are they doomed *never* to get the right wand action? Or someone with Tourette's or, or , or What kind of effect would Idiot Savant-ism have on Magical ability? What would challenging behaviour look like (don't turn your sister into a slug!, give a whole new meaning to put down the fridge) AND there certainly seems to be a few people around who could benefit from a good calm down (and maybe a shrink or two). Does St Mungo's help the walking wounded or do they wait until things get so bad - like longbottom's parents - and then they just shelter (I'm seeing the scene from Cassandra's D.S here) Maybe if Tom had had some good quality counseling (*so* hard to find) he would not have been driven on his unfortunate (for the rest of the world) path of evil and destruction. Ok, I'm stopping now storm -----Original Message----- From: John Walton [SMTP:john at walton.to] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:17 PM To: hpforgrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character: Minerva McGonagall John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#220 Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will pretend to have a different one. For example, I shall have all mirrors removed from the palace, scream and flinch whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will be "Hmm...I think I need a shave." ======================================== To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Dec 14 09:46:30 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:46:30 -0000 Subject: HP--Hagrid's house, Vold anagram / OT--Languages Message-ID: <91a4tm+u2d8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6885 Hi Grownups-- The first part of my post is HP-related, however the second regards the language discussion, and only tangentially, at that. You've been warned... Susan, Penny, and Stephanie-- Yes, JKR did say that Hagrid was in Gryff. during the October B & N chat. But, I was positive I remembered seeing somewhere that he was in Huff., too. Many tried to help me out, re the "Everyone says Hufflepuff are a bunch o' duffers..." line from Hagrid. However, someone mentioned that perhaps what I was trying to recall was the Scholastic quiz. That was exactly it. And, I got the question right with my first answer-- Hufflepuff. Apparently, Schol. was going by the same assumption I had made, and now (thank you, Stephanie), they've corrected it. Or were the questions submitted by children? Don't remember now, it's been too long. As far as the TR/Vold anagram, my thoughts have been that JKR is very learned about various languages; I figured she 'liked' the word/phrase(?) "voldemort" and 'found' the name Tom Riddle in it, and then just went with it. We know how she enjoys collecting names, and she certainly enjoys playing with words. Anyway, that was my take on it... Now, for the wildly OT part.. I love the language discussion that has been going on lately, even though I'm monolingual (if that), only knowing a smattering of words in other languages. A site that I've found, as a result of HP British terms, is this one: http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/ It's a British-American -- American-British dictionary, plus contains a great deal of other interesting info. Check out 'History of the English Language', I believe that's what the section is called. Very interesting. Just to mention, in the performance of "Glorious", Eddie Izzard pronounces 'garage' as GARE-ahzh (to saw a plank of wood in half...), with the accent on the first syllable, but with an almost as strong emphasis on the second. He also speaks French, btw, quite well, but not completely fluently yet. Myself and a few other izzardites have been discussing the language thing in private emails, and our conversations have been bizarrely similar to the one happening now in HPfGUs. Weird, eh? Any other EI fans on this list? I would gush, but this isn't really the forum for it. Another interesting site is: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/ This one regards common errors in English (as a language, not a culture ;o]). Again, not related, just interesting and informative. Okay, enough for now... Kelley---covered in bees....jam for brains....punching a baboon....on the moon...with Steve....he's a doughnut.... so, yeah. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 14 10:13:38 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:13:38 -0000 Subject: Chapter 23: The Yule Ball In-Reply-To: <01C0660C.20898CE0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91a6gi+bbpk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6886 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > "The Dursleys (boo, hiss) give Harry a single tissue ("an all-time low")." > > This always bothers me a bit - Why do they give him anything at all? Surely the > insult takes more thought than nothing? (but it is funny!) > I think it underlines their supreme conventionality. At Christmas one gives presents to relatives, ergo they must send Harry a present. There is no decisive norm, however, that the present has to be nice. So they can express their nastiness by sending a horrible present. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 14 10:42:26 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:42:26 -0000 Subject: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <3A37E12D.9BFEC5BA@texas.net> Message-ID: <91a86i+cjpi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6887 > But there's a bunch of "mort-" words in English having to do with death: > mortician, mortuary, Morticia (for you Addams fans), etc., that I still got > the strong connection even pronouncing the /t/. I thought it was a reference > back to the (Latin?) root that English and French both drew on. I might have > gone with a silent /t/, except that there was no other even remotely French > word in there at all. Until the tournament. > > --Amanda There are French words there - vol (flight or theft) and de. Naama From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Thu Dec 14 11:27:30 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:27:30 -0000 Subject: Fan Sites & Legal Action In-Reply-To: <919m8f+g9eg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91aar2+fv1h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6888 > I went to the site you listed, www.harrypotterisawizard.co.uk, and > it lead me to the WB site. Is my browser screwed up? No... the agreement between myself and Warner Brothers is that the domain would be transfered to them, and while that is happening, the DNS entries would point to their domain. > All this would be much easier if there were some sort of regulation > stating that only ONE url could lead to a given site... Yes... that would be good. It would be also useful if there was a ruleing in a court regarding when a site is a site. I.e. Does a site need to have a domain name? Without going in to details... I have been in touch with the lawyers concerning the Field case, and there are always two sides to every story. A question for you to ponder ============================ If a website does not have a domain name... does it exist? Does a website only need an IP address to exist - or does it also need a domain name? Nick. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Dec 14 11:37:08 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:37:08 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fan Sites & Legal Action References: <91aar2+fv1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a801c065c2$31c5a0b0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6889 It doesn't need a domain name! Any website exists if it is available to others (by any means or for any amount of time). That's common sense. As for asking what delineates two websites as separate, then I'd say you have to look at the difference between external and internal links. An external one goes to content belonging or under control of someone else. So if I have the page http://www.host.com/~user1/index.htm with a link pointing to ../~user2/ then this is an external link despite that it's a relative link because it is a different user's content. This link wouldn't tie the other site as part of mine. In most cases though people only use relative links for internal links, because this makes moving a site around much easier. > If a website does not have a domain name... does it exist? Does a > website only need an IP address to exist - or does it also need a > domain name? > > Nick. From andrea at noembromation.com.br Thu Dec 14 12:21:40 2000 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea Bonfanti) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:21:40 -0000 Subject: Tom Riddle and Brazilian translations Message-ID: <91ae0k+j52g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6890 Hi, everyone! Well, I don't know if this thread is already dead, but I still wanted to say something! I'm Brazilian, but I've bought and read the 4 books in English. The Brazilian version of PoA has just been launched, and I have spent an awful lot of time at bookshops browsing through the books to see how they've done it. My teenage pupils also help me with this. The solution they found for the Tom Riddle anagram was a pretty good one, IMO: "Tom Servolo Riddle"-> "Eis Lord Voldemort" (which translates as "Here is Lord Vold" or "This is Lord Vold". But they screwed up with some other things. For instance, they changed platform 9 3/4 to platform 9 1/2! What's the point in changing the fractions? Besides, they decided to use Hermione's original name, which is pretty difficult for Brazilian children to try to figure out. They could have translated into Herm?nia, which is the Portuguese equivalent. Then, after PS, they realized that that had been a mistake and decided to give her a nickname, and, throughout CoS, she's called Mione! I just can't see her as Mione! Andrea From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 12:35:26 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (Coleen (Tessie) ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:35:26 -0000 Subject: Macnair's first name Message-ID: <91aeqe+44vb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6891 I need help! Does anyone know Macnair's first name? My books are on loan out and I need to know the executioner Macnair's first name. Thanks Tessie From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Dec 14 12:41:04 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:41:04 -0000 Subject: MacNair Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6892 Tessie wrote: "I need help! Does anyone know Macnair's first name? My books are on loan out and I need to know the executioner Macnair's first name. Thanks" "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" >From Steve's Web Site: http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ Simon From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 12:47:53 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:47:53 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] MacNair Message-ID: <33.df01c3a.276a1b79@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6893 In a message dated 12/14/00 12:41:27 PM !!!First Boot!!!, simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk writes: << "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" From Steve's Web Site: http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ Simon >> THANKS!!!!!!! Simon, you are the BEST!!! From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 14 12:33:56 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:33:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie References: Message-ID: <00e901c065cd$05761660$802e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6894 > Now i have a question. Is anyone else concerned about the movie. I mean, I > am sure it will be fabulous, like they did with Interview With The > Vampire(which was almost parallel with the books) But I mean, i am afraid > that the movie will spoil the way i see things in my mind, esp placed like > Diagon Alley (which sounds like diagonally...i wonder why?) and Hogsmeade. > I dont want my imaginations illusion ruined. Well, I didn't like "Interview..." when I saw it the first time (now I think it's quite good but not as good as the book). And the Harry Potter movie... I will still picture some things like I see them now, but Prof. Snape is already looking like (younger) Alan Rickman in my imaginaion (but I adore Alan Rickman, so go figure ). Snape should be in his late thirties, just like Lupin and Sirius (just a great vintage, right?) and AR is 54! I'm also afraid that the special effects won't look *real* real and that really would spoil things for me. Im not a big SFX Fan but I really WANT to believe that they are sitting on their Broomsticks, zooming around. That's why I'm quite worried about Hagrid and Hedwig, if they won't look real it's a pity. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 14 12:51:05 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:51:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Essays References: <918nrg+pu17@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c065cd$06eefac0$802e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6895 > The > paper is in Danish, but if you want, I could do a quick translation > and post it for you?!? Well, if you have some time to spare and it's not too bothersome... I know it's only ten days to christmas and everyone has other things on his mind!. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 14 12:53:48 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:53:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Audio Versions References: <919k53+p1p2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00f001c065cd$07e31ec0$802e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6896 I haven't heard the English version, so may I ask a question: How does JD do the different voices? Because on my Tapes of PoA the speaker does Mdm. Rosmerta with a Swiss accent, Mdm. Pomfrey witha French one (which makes sense) and, to my abolsute Horror, Severus with a Russian accent. I find this really horrible, I mean he IS English, and it sounds really strange! Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 14 12:47:49 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:47:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bad Translation References: <01C06602.BEEDD800.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <00ea01c065cd$062eb800$802e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6897 > Watch it Dinah - you are amongst some very serious Snape lovers here - greasy > hair and all! To be honest, a have a crush on him, too. But I still think he could do with some cheering up! From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 13:29:24 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:29:24 -0000 Subject: Macnair's first name In-Reply-To: <91aeqe+44vb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ahvk+f9ms@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6898 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Coleen (Tessie) " wrote: > I need help! Does anyone know Macnair's first name? My books are on > loan out and I need to know the executioner Macnair's first name. > Thanks > > Tessie His name is Walden. You could have looked it up in the Lexicon. There's a Death Eaters page which you could find in the Main Index, or you could just search for Macnair. (shameless self promotion there...) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 13:32:16 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:32:16 -0000 Subject: MacNair In-Reply-To: <33.df01c3a.276a1b79@aol.com> Message-ID: <91ai50+uvcv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6899 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, JUSDUCKY1 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/14/00 12:41:27 PM !!!First Boot!!!, > simon.branford at h... writes: > > << > "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" > > From Steve's Web Site: http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ > > > Simon \ Gee, I guess I don't have to do my own shameless self-promotion. I should have read a few more messages before I responded. Sorry for cluttering up the list on this fine, snowy Thursday morning. Uh, except now I clutter up the list with ANOTHER needless message. Never mind. Steve From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 13:54:50 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:54:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Macnair's first name Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6900 In a message dated 12/14/00 1:30:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!, vderark at bccs.org writes: << His name is Walden. You could have looked it up in the Lexicon. There's a Death Eaters page which you could find in the Main Index, or you could just search for Macnair. (shameless self promotion there...) >> THANKS.... I did have your site, until my husband CRASHED our compyter again and I haven't gotten around to putting everything back on it again. Lexicon is back in my favorite places. Tessie and there is nothing wrong with (shameless self promotion) hehe From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 14 13:54:31 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:54:31 -0600 Subject: Chapter 23: The Yule Ball References: Message-ID: <3A38D117.3D28A307@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6901 Hi -- > However (and here's the clincher), "Krum was...accompanied by a pretty > girl in blue robes Harry didn't know." And so, in a sudden > rainstorm of similes, Harry realises that the pretty girl is Hermione: > > She was also smiling -- rather nervously, it was true -- but > the reduction in the size of her front teeth was more noticeable than > ever; Harry couldn't understand how he hadn't spotted it before." I maintain from the above passage that Harry was just as floored by Hermione's appearance at the Ball as Ron. > Serious question, though -- does Hermione's newfound appearance change > our opinion of her?)) Like Rita, I would have to say that it just makes me a bit jealous. Not many of us "nerd girls" can transform into a beautiful swan who will cause heads to turn, even with gallons of hair potions & 3 hours (or more) of prep time. Seriously .... I don't see that there's anything to fault Hermione for changing her appearance so dramatically for that one night -- lots of people do (or try to do) that for special occasions. As she told Harry the next day, the changes she made to her hair would take far more trouble than she was willing to do for everyday. Although one does wonder if there couldn't be some 1 minute charm that could "fix" her unruly hair everyday. > Question: While being served at Top Table, Hermione isn't thinking > about > SPEW. Do we reconsider our opinion of her and her commitment because > of > this? Nah. She's preoccupied and probably more than just a little bit nervous. It's her first date, she's with a School Champion and she surely couldn't have failed to miss the sensation she caused with her appearance and her date. > He returns to the Gryffindor common room to find Ron and Hermione > having a major catfight -- Harry thinks Hermione was in the right. > I, of course being me, feel compelled to add my own spin on the last scene of this chapter. I maintain that since we don't know what transpired between Ron & Hermione before Harry stepped into the Common Room, we really can't know the full implications of their argument. On the surface, it sounds as though Ron is letting loose with a major streak of jealousy because she went with Krum and he has unacknowledged romantic feelings for her. It sounds, again on the surface, as though Hermione is saying, "Well, if *you* wanted to go with me to the ball, you should have asked me first and not as a last resort." But, it's quite quite possible that really all Ron *said* was a repeat of what he said at the Ball, which was the accusation that she was fraternizing with the enemy by going to the Ball with Krum. In *that* case, Hermione's response could be interpreted in another way -- she could simply be saying "Well, if you'd have rather I didn't go with a student from another school, perhaps you should have asked me yourself." A distinction that could mean nothing .... or could mean something. I just think JKR rarely writes things that are entirely as they appear to be on the surface, and this "fight" between Ron & Hermione strikes me as ripe for mis-interpretation. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SHENmagic at aol.com Thu Dec 14 14:12:19 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:12:19 EST Subject: Golden Toads site Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6902 Tessie writes: >Where is this site again? My husband crashed the computer AGAIN and I lost the site. It's http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/toadpoll.html I'm still hoping some kindly person will e-mail or post how to vote, and when the deadline is, as that page doesn't tell, and apparently the link to vote is broken. Aylihael From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 14 14:15:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:15:10 -0600 Subject: Character: Minerva McGonagall References: Message-ID: <3A38D5EE.C044A0B4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6903 Hi: John Walton wrote: > 4) Continuing the theme from question 1, what are possible reasons for > > McGonagall not punishing Harry -- indeed, rewarding him -- for flying > unsupervised in PS? Hermione even thinks that this is inconsistent > with > McGonagall in general. Again, does this have any greater significance > than a Good Plot Device? I'd echo what others have said: this woman clearly has a passion for Quidditch!! I would add too that McGonagall is definitely a softie at heart -- I've picked up more & more on this each time I listen to the audio tapes. I'm not *wild* about Dale's McGonagall voice really, but he does clearly pick up on her character I think. He conveys her personality quite effectively. I'm also picking up more & more on the similarities between McGonagall & Hermione and the mentoring relationship that is very much developing between them. Some of the comments Hermione makes imply that she has more contact with McGonagall than the readers are privy to. As I've said before, I think she's a very strong female character & a role model for Hermione. I like her! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 14 14:20:52 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:20:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book References: <916v1g+fthd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A38D744.1FB01F78@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6904 Hi -- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > But I was amazed at how easy it was to find the errors! I get the > sense that she doesn't know how to keep her interpretations and > suppositions from coming through as facts. True. > And I also suspect that she hasn't read the books more than once and > then maybe once more for notes. That was my perception also. I read the whole thing -- the one that Heidi bought & is circulating amongst those of us who are interested in giving it a read. I had the definite impression that she had *not* read the books very thoroughly and certainly could not be said to be an obsessed fan (or even a fan at all really, truth be told). > I can tell you from experience that you CAN'T write something > like that without knowing the books almost intuitively from repeated > readings. I listen to the audio tapes all the time. I have read each > book many times and still read them. I'm reading GF aloud to my son > right now and I constantly find things that slipped past me. In order > to understand the world you're describing, you have to immerse > yourself in it. I know, you guys laugh at me because I'm a little > teensy tiny bit obsessed with it all, but frankly, I can't imagine > anyone writing a worthwhile guide who WASN'T obsessed with it. And I > don't think she is at all. Opportunistic, yes, obsessed, no. I agree with Steve. As I've mentioned, I listen to nothing but the audio tapes in my car these days (and living in Houston, I spend a fair bit of time in the car stuck in traffic snarls). I've also read them countless times. We're reading SS to our unborn baby each night with a fetal microphone. And, I do seem to catch a new detail, nuance or possible re-interpretation everytime I listen to or read these books. It's amazing! I'm glad Carole is forwarding it to you Steve. We'll be anxiously awaiting your formal verdict. As you'll see when you get it, Heidi definitely wanted us to all write our comments in the margins. I would imagine it might be littered with sarcastic remarks & corrections in the margins by this point! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 14:39:48 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:39:48 -0000 Subject: Beacham book In-Reply-To: <3A38D744.1FB01F78@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91am3k+acfg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6905 > I'm glad Carole is forwarding it to you Steve. We'll be anxiously > awaiting your formal verdict. As you'll see when you get it, Heidi > definitely wanted us to all write our comments in the margins. I would > imagine it might be littered with sarcastic remarks & corrections in the > margins by this point! And will we be forwarding it to Beacham after we're through with it? It would be interesting to get their reaction...maybe they'll decide to publish the FAQ--the writings and analyses of the REAL experts! You know, I've been toying with the idea of approaching Scholastic about doing an annotated HP series. I think that would be very cool... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 14 14:31:53 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:31:53 -0600 Subject: Wand Order Story for Salon.com References: <001801c06562$d6a1c420$6597bc3e@joy> Message-ID: <3A38D9D8.3493A97C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6906 Hi -- I have an update on the Salon.com article. I'm not sure if the reporter ever did visit us formally, but I contacted her individually. I've cut & pasted below what I sent to her. She wrote back and asked if she could quote me in her article as she liked my articulation of the basic issues surrounding this "correction." I wrote back & gave her permission to quote me, and I asked her to please mention this group as a whole. I stressed, for example, that I certainly can't take credit for coming up with the explanation/theory for the wand order problem that I always liked the best (credit to Trina for that one): that Harry wanted to see his father so badly that he managed to magically cause the images to reverse themselves in the wand. Joy Wotton wrote: > Bad Borders. I went to their shop on Charing Cross Road in London this > evening. They are selling the original version of GOBLET for 11.99 and the > new version for 14.99 - with no indication at all why the prices are > different. Wow! I haven't noticed a price difference in the US -- anyone else? > Looking at the corrected Wand Order scene I see that the correction fits > neatly within the spread and doesn't roll on to the following page. Find it > hard to believe that JR rewrote this herself since the simple transposition of > mother and father leads to the statement when Lily emerges that Harry > sees the woman he has thought of more often than any other that night. But are > there ANY other women in Harry's life who are of such overwhelming importance > that he would think of them? No, I don't think so Joy. That's basically what I said to the reporter, but I may forward your message to her anyway in case she wants to add your spin on it. I did not, for example, make mention of what you point out: the "corrections" don't require page layout changes. Surely they aren't trying to be *cheap* are they???!! > Perhaps because we have discussed this at length, I find that the first > version of the scene (although wrong according to the facts as we know them) > makes much more sense because it strengthens our picture of Harry's > relationship with his father. The second version doesn't add to our picture > of Lily and I find it lacks depth. I agree. I think Harry clearly is portrayed as having a more emotional connection to his father-- or at least we (and Harry) learn so much more about his father in PoA, that it *seems* as though he has a more emotional connection with his father, which, of course, is validated by the original version of this scene. I'm with Joy: the corrected version not only makes no sense, it lacks depth. Penny (my message to Kera is below this) Hi Kera -- Brian Dorband forwarded me your email address and your message regarding your research into the change in the "wand order" passage from Goblet of Fire. I'm the "listmom" for the Harry Potter for Grownups group (HPforGrownups at egroups.com). Our members recognized this issue immediately, and since July, we have developed a variety of theories about why James might have emerged from the wand prior to Lily. Needless to say, we were completely taken aback that (a) it was *just* a mistake, (b) the "correction" was done silently and (c) the "corrected" passage reads very strangely (in the opinion of most of us anyway). I would say that most of us believe that it was a colossal mistake to have slipped by JK Rowling *and* the editorial staff at both Bloomsbury & Scholastic. It was a passage that gave virtually all of us pause on the first read, so we can't help but wonder whether the editors were completely asleep at the wheel to have missed it. Many of us have speculated that the release deadline for GoF contributed to several errors that should have been corrected with adequate editorial supervision & reasonable deadlines (the "wand order" passage being the most glaring example of course). We also wonder about the corrected passage. It doesn't really make sense internally. Whoever made the change did so without much thought it would appear. It's really not enough to simply change the pronouns and proper names to make Lily appear before James. There is a passage in the original version where Harry thinks to himself that he knew whoit would be coming out of the wand next, because it was the man he'd thought of more than any other that night. That was beautiful & emotionally evocative because Harry *had* been thinking of his father. It makes considerably less sense to say that he'd been thinking of Lily more than any woman that night, when in fact, he hadn't had any thoughts about Lily that are conveyed to the reader. The theory that we originally came up with that *I* liked the best was that Harry unconsciously *wanted* to see his father so desperately at that point that he somehow magically caused the images inside the wand to reverse order. Of course, we had a number of other theories, ranging from perfectly plausible to insane, and I'd be happy to share those with you in more detail if you're interested. Good luck with this article, and we would all certainly love to know when it is released. Please feel free to join our group if you're so inclined, even temporarily for purposes of discussing this issue with the members. You'll find us a diverse and entertaining crowd I think! Penny Linsenmayer pennylin at swbell.net From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 14 15:06:11 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 14 Dec 2000 07:06:11 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book Message-ID: <20001214150611.8200.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6907 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From kathleen at carr.org Thu Dec 14 15:19:23 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:19:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 23: The Yule Ball Message-ID: <200012141521.eBEFLZU28657@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 6908 >"Question: While being served at Top Table, Hermione isn't thinking about >SPEW. Do we reconsider our opinion of her and her commitment because of >this?" >How do we know she doesn't think of the house elves - she has long since given >up not eating as a protest (or are you joking and I'm taking it all FAR too >seriously?) Hermione must keep the faith! Actually, I always thought that Hermione's ulterior motive for going to the ball with Krum was to butter him up to be a SPEW supporter (and to make Ron jealous of course); after all, if Viktor Krum were behind, who would laugh at SPEW anymore? Kathy From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 14 15:44:28 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:44:28 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sorcerer's Stone Message-ID: <6e.5e582b7.276a44dc@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6909 In a message dated 12/13/2000 9:18:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, Schlobin at aol.com writes: << Some idiots decided that no self respecting U.S. boy would buy a book called the Philosopher's Stone. >> I believe it was changed because Americans would not know what a Philosopher's Stone is............ There are some words in the books (a friend of mine has the UK versions) that US kids and even adults would just not know. The UK word for Field....rather than Quidditch field is something else in the UK books. There are changes like that because US readers may not know the terms. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From joym999 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 15:56:01 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:56:01 -0000 Subject: Beacham book and obsession In-Reply-To: <3A38D744.1FB01F78@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91aqih+10ia9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6910 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > We're reading SS to our unborn baby each night with a > fetal microphone I know I have remarked on this before, but I am continually amazed at the wonderfully creative outlets people in this group come up with for their HP obsession. I am sure little Minerva will be a magical baby. > Heidi > definitely wanted us to all write our comments in the margins. I would > imagine it might be littered with sarcastic remarks & corrections in the > margins by this point! > What is happening with the circulation of the bad Beachem book? I signed up many months ago for the crit list. Can I have it after Steve, or are others still waiting for it too? --Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 16:00:02 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:00:02 -0000 Subject: Beacham book In-Reply-To: <91am3k+acfg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91aqq2+d0fd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6911 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > You know, I've been toying with the idea of approaching Scholastic > about doing an annotated HP series. I think that would be very cool... > This is a fantastic idea. I suggested a while ago that we could write a better book than Beecham. Making it a group project would be pretty complicated, and of all of us, I think you are the most qualified. Scholastic would be stupid NOT to take you up on it. I wholeheartedly offer my support and give you permission to use any of my humble little thoughts if you so desire. --Joywitch From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Dec 14 16:07:48 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:07:48 -0000 Subject: Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6912 Scott wrote: "On the subject of Latin which I vaguely recall Simon as dubing "Silly" (Shame!), I just got back from my Latin Club Christmas party. The language which I would most like to learn is Welsh. I'm not really sure why, as I can't find a solid and practical reason for it but I still want to learn it." I do think Latin is silly, but if I ever get round to studying a language properly then it is high up on the list of possibilities. I mean I study some aspects of pure mathematics that are so far removed from 'real life' that I think Latin would be about as useful for me to learn as some of the work I have done this past term! Why bother studying Welsh when you can go the full distance and study Medieval Welsh instead? A friend of mine studied this as part of his English degree - though he is scarily clever and easily got a first! Aylihael wrote: "I'm still hoping some kindly person will e-mail or post how to vote, and when the deadline is, as that page doesn't tell, and apparently the link to vote is broken." Well according to their website nominations close on December 8th - I think we can discount that! To vote go to the link posted a couple of days ago (http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/toadpoll.html). This page lists the nominations. At the bottom there is a button labelled: "Take the Poll. Click Here" which changes to "Cast Your Vote". Click on that and up comes a page with the nominations in each category and a little selection box by each. At the bottom of the page there is a "Submit your Vote" button. Once you have made your selections, you do not have to vote in all categories, click on this and you are finished. Hope that helps - The site was working fine a few minutes ago. Penny wrote: "I would imagine it might be littered with sarcastic remarks & corrections in the margins by this point!" Are we talking about the Beacham book here or my lecture notes? Joywitch wrote: "What is happening with the circulation of the bad Beachem book? I signed up many months ago for the crit list. Can I have it after Steve, or are others still waiting for it too?" I was similarly intrigued to hear of the books progress. Is it possible to be given an indication of running order as some of us signed up and are interested to know if it will make it this far - will make an effort to go to a bookstore and read it if not heading my way at some stage in the future (I have got very interested to see exactly how bad this book actually is). Susan wrote: "Having said that, the poster is incredible. I love it. Let me do my three year old son imitation... I want it. I want that poster. Actually, Mommy, I would like that poster, plese. Could I have it now?" And in the best parent like voice I can manage: "I want doesn't get." The poster does look cool - wonder where we have to go to get a copy? Tessie wrote: "THANKS!!!!!!! Simon, you are the BEST!!!" And to quote the great Albus Dumbledore in my reply: "It's lucky it's dark. I haven't blushed so much since Madam Pomfrey told me she liked my new earmuffs." Steve wrote: "Gee, I guess I don't have to do my own shameless self-promotion. I should have read a few more messages before I responded. Sorry for cluttering up the list on this fine, snowy Thursday morning." I was pretty sure I knew the name correctly, but decided, that as I had all these resources at my fingertips, that I should make use of them. Snow - lucky you. It keeps raining here! Has anyone got a helicopter they can lend me - I am going home tomorrow and I keep hearing of more problems on all of my possible routes. I am going to be stuck soon - in a building that will flood if the river rises a foot, which is how much it has risen in the last 4 days. Simon (who has realised that what was at one stage a short message has suddenly ended up being pages long) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Dec 14 16:29:17 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:29:17 -0000 Subject: Hermione Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6913 John wrote(?): And so, in a sudden rainstorm of similes, Harry realises that the pretty girl is Hermione: She was also smiling -- rather nervously, it was true -- but the reduction in the size of her front teeth was more noticeable than ever; Harry couldn't understand how he hadn't spotted it before."> Penny replied: "I maintain from the above passage that Harry was just as floored by Hermione's appearance at the Ball as Ron. " The real question is was Harry floored with Hermione's appearance or with the fact that a close friend of his, someone that he has never really connected with being a girl (she is his friend - it has never mattered before as to whether she is a boy or a girl), could make such an impression and look so feminine. Penny wrote: "I don't see that there's anything to fault Hermione for changing her appearance so dramatically for that one night -- lots of people do (or try to do) that for special occasions. As she told Harry the next day, the changes she made to her hair would take far more trouble than she was willing to do for everyday. Although one does wonder if there couldn't be some 1 minute charm that could "fix" her unruly hair everyday." It was the first occasion in their time at Hogwarts that they have had a chance to 'dress up'. A guess this is something that the girlies really enjoy and leaves the blokes as nervous wrecks. Nowadays I just try to avoid going to anything that involves me wearing such smart clothing - there is a limited number of times that you can put up with 'black tie' - even if all the females flock over to check that you have a real one instead of fake (bow tie). So we have a character [Hermione] that is very clever - the best witch in her year and probably one of the most intelligent people ever to go to Hogwarts. With a bit of effort (mainly only has to do something to the hair) she can transform herself into one of the most attractive people in the whole school. People are convinced that most of the main male characters, if not all, are attracted to her and will, if they have not already realised it, want to date her. She is the author's character in the story. I could go on further - but have chosen not too (have to go and do some FAQ work - have been avoiding it all day). Can I get away with accusing Jo or Mary Sue? Or the real question is: Is Hermione an example of Mary Sue? Go read this for more amusement: http://www.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=story-read&storyid=139773 Simon (who was quite amused when he thought of this!) From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Dec 14 17:25:00 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:25:00 -0000 Subject: For the (serious?) Snape lovers (a filk) In-Reply-To: <00ea01c065cd$062eb800$802e07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91avpc+nc1e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6914 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > > Watch it Dinah - you are amongst some very serious Snape lovers here - > greasy > > hair and all! > > To be honest, a have a crush on him, too. But I still think he could do with > some cheering up! To the tune of: A Bicycle Built for Two [Enter Pippin, Dinah, Amanda and others] Snape-y, Snape-y, Give us your answer do. We're half crazy, All for the love of you. We know that you would disparage A wizard-Muggle marriage, But come, we entreat, To the Prefect's bath suite, And we'll give you a good shampoo! From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 14 17:08:00 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:08:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book References: <20001214150611.8200.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <005d01c065f4$879e54a0$042e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6915 > On Thu, 14 December 2000, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > > You know, I've been toying with the idea of approaching Scholastic about doing an >annotated HP series. I think that would be very cool... You know, here they published a book "The Lexikon of Harry Potter ABC" (or something like that, it's a dumb title) which isn't all that bad. It has loads of mythological references to magical creatures and a short explanation of all curses. And as your Site is much more detailed with Timeline and Character History it would be a great idea! Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 14 17:42:12 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:42:12 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] For the (serious?) Snape lovers (a filk) References: <91avpc+nc1e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006501c065f5$31b1c260$042e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6916 Thank you very much, this'll be written down on my school-folder at once. Tsk, I just can imagine how much I'll be teased... > We know that you would disparage > A wizard-Muggle marriage, Well, I make a good witch. A) Every year on Carneval and B) As my very own Wand-Waver, e.g. on Solstice . > But come, we entreat, > To the Prefect's bath suite, > And we'll give you a good shampoo! Oooh, it's bed-time in a few hours, do you know what you have *done* to me? I'll be unable to sleep while I lie drooling! Dinah From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 18:02:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:02:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: pronunciations References: <919j2n+inrc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A390B3B.BCF5943F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6917 Susan McGee wrote: > > But there's a bunch of "mort-" words in English having to do with > death: > > mortician, mortuary, Morticia (for you Addams fans), etc., that I > still got > > the strong connection even pronouncing the /t/. > > But they have letters after the t -- which in French would cause the > T to be pronounced. Death in French is pronounced with a silent "t". Oh, I know. Terminal /t/ is silent in French. I was just saying that there was enough precedent in English for me to pronounce Voldemort without going over to French examples. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 18:10:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:10:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sorcerer's Stone References: <919l4r+2c47@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A390D04.8DFBF545@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6918 Susan McGee wrote: > There is of course NO SUCH THING as a "sorcerer's stone". The only > way the book title makes SENSE is to call it the Philosopher's Stone, > since that relates to Nicholas Flamel, alchemy, immortality, etc. > Some idiots decided that no self respecting U.S. boy would buy a book > called the Philosopher's Stone. Obviously too wimpy and wussy and it > might emasculate him if he is seen reading it. So it was changed to > the Sorcerer's Stone here in the U.S.A. (insulting most of us I would > like to suggest). Adding insult to this idiocy, they are continuing > to do it for the film...has anyone noticed that the books have uh, > sold in the U.S., and most likely would continue to sell if the title > were changed back? (voice dripping with intentional sarcasm) I must agree, down to the vehemence. I think changing the name is the silliest thing I've ever heard of. I, however, figured they did it to avoid offending the lunatic fundamentalists on the face of it. You know, alchemy, Satan's work, human sacrifice, blood of unbaptised infants, the whole thing. This seemed a useless move to me, since those who walk around waiting to be offended, will be, and you can't change the substance of the story. Maybe Susan's right and it was a boy-marketing move--did you read that someplace? It makes just as little sense. But the change does insult the intelligence of any educated American person. Okay, you can all put your teeth back in, I *can* agree with Susan on occasion... (I am *teasing* you, Susan....) --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 18:17:03 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:17:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] For the (serious?) Snape lovers (a filk) References: <91avpc+nc1e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A390E9E.89591364@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6919 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > To the tune of: A Bicycle Built for Two > > [Enter Pippin, Dinah, Amanda and others] Oh, thank you for the laugh! Lifted the day right up... --Amanda From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Dec 14 18:51:07 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (particle at urbanet.ch) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:51:07 -0000 Subject: Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91b4qr+gekd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6920 > Well according to their website nominations close on December 8th - I think > we can discount that! > To vote go to the link posted a couple of days ago > (http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/toadpoll.html). This page lists the > nominations. At the bottom there is a button labelled: "Take the Poll. Click > Here" which changes to "Cast Your Vote". Click on that and up comes a page > with the nominations in each category and a little selection box by each. At > the bottom of the page there is a "Submit your Vote" button. Once you have > made your selections, you do not have to vote in all categories, click on > this and you are finished. > Hope that helps - The site was working fine a few minutes ago. Seeing as I'm the current webmistress for the Golden Toads (we take turns), I'd better explain that little issue on the site...what happens is that in very rapid succession, a) we realized that we needed to extend the nominations period, b) I fell into a month-long Homework Marathon, c) Flourish fell into a Homework Marathon. So we were only updating the parts that were really necessary (and assumed that people would realize that they should be ignoring the marked dates if the polls were up and working). Anyway, as of Saturday I have three weeks of near freedom (but first I have to get through a Biology lab, a Biology essay, an English essay on a Ted Hughes poem, and a History essay plan - how did you adults get through high school, huh? Much less *college*!), so I'm going to fix the site a bit. The polls will be open for a few more weeks, exact dates will go up soon. Just thought I'd fight free of my computer exile long enough to say that. ~Firebolt, your friendly neighborhood lurker and Golden Toad co-admin From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Thu Dec 14 19:11:52 2000 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:11:52 -0000 Subject: North Pole Conspiracy (a Christmas carol) Message-ID: <91b61o+109f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6921 Santa's "Reindeer" (to the tune of "Good King Wenceslas" http://rememberjosie.org/carols/s7009.asp) We all know 'bout Santa Claus, reindeers, elves and his sleigh, The toys and goodies he does bring to us for Christmas Day But few know 'bout that dark, dark time In the North Pole histr'y pages. When Local Reindeer 29 Demanded sick leave and higher wages. "Reindeer rights are being squashed" "Crowded stalls and old hay" "We want change and want it now or we won't pull your old sleigh!" "Please dear reindeer, please not fret" Santa pleaded meekly, "We can work this out, you bet. New hay and water weekly!" "Listen old man, we want more" sternly grunted Dancer "If we don't get it, we walk out!" interjected Prancer Santa then shook his head; negotiations ended. Sleepy Santa went to bed, The reindeer were offended. The reindeer picketed all day and well into the night The elves, in Union sympathy, also went on strike They picketed for one full week Christmas was drawing closer Desperately Santa did seek Help from a sorceror. "Dear Dumbledore," Santa wrote "You've heard of my dilemna Help me Albus, Help me please. Help your poor ol' Santa." Dumbledore wrote back to him " House Elves aren't unionized. Santa to solve your problem I'll change them to reindeer size." House elves were transmogrified to reindeer that evening. When he saw them, Santa cheered; the real reindeer were seething. "Scabs!" they shouted as their line was crossed by the House Elf reindeer. Santa chugged a glass of wine. Christmas Eve was almost here. The sleigh ride went without a hitch: the House Elves were good reindeer They finished two hours earlier: Santa had a beer. "House elves are good and strong They work without complaining. They work and work for hours long In sunshine and when raining." Since that time, House Elves have been working at the North Pole And this story to any soul hasn't ever been told. The reindeer tried to sue their boss But dropped it after one year Never mess with Santa Claus Merry Christmas and New Year. ~Demelza From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 14 19:46:43 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:46:43 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] North Pole Conspiracy (a Christmas carol) Message-ID: <01C06662.CE7B7740.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6922 Dumbledore would NEVER do such a thing! He would be condoning cruelty and that's not on. Besides I'm sure he's a Union man at heart (oh dear, I think I'm taking this too seriously again....) storm -----Original Message----- From: Demelza [SMTP:muggle-reader at angelfire.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 5:12 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] North Pole Conspiracy (a Christmas carol) Santa's "Reindeer" (to the tune of "Good King Wenceslas" http://rememberjosie.org/carols/s7009.asp) We all know 'bout Santa Claus, reindeers, elves and his sleigh, The toys and goodies he does bring to us for Christmas Day But few know 'bout that dark, dark time In the North Pole histr'y pages. When Local Reindeer 29 Demanded sick leave and higher wages. "Reindeer rights are being squashed" "Crowded stalls and old hay" "We want change and want it now or we won't pull your old sleigh!" "Please dear reindeer, please not fret" Santa pleaded meekly, "We can work this out, you bet. New hay and water weekly!" "Listen old man, we want more" sternly grunted Dancer "If we don't get it, we walk out!" interjected Prancer Santa then shook his head; negotiations ended. Sleepy Santa went to bed, The reindeer were offended. The reindeer picketed all day and well into the night The elves, in Union sympathy, also went on strike They picketed for one full week Christmas was drawing closer Desperately Santa did seek Help from a sorceror. "Dear Dumbledore," Santa wrote "You've heard of my dilemna Help me Albus, Help me please. Help your poor ol' Santa." Dumbledore wrote back to him " House Elves aren't unionized. Santa to solve your problem I'll change them to reindeer size." House elves were transmogrified to reindeer that evening. When he saw them, Santa cheered; the real reindeer were seething. "Scabs!" they shouted as their line was crossed by the House Elf reindeer. Santa chugged a glass of wine. Christmas Eve was almost here. The sleigh ride went without a hitch: the House Elves were good reindeer They finished two hours earlier: Santa had a beer. "House elves are good and strong They work without complaining. They work and work for hours long In sunshine and when raining." Since that time, House Elves have been working at the North Pole And this story to any soul hasn't ever been told. The reindeer tried to sue their boss But dropped it after one year Never mess with Santa Claus Merry Christmas and New Year. ~Demelza To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 14 17:56:24 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:56:24 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teaser Poster References: <919hjb+nrgo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <020d01c06605$bb204de0$43c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6923 That's ridiculous. Who on this planet made the copyright rules up? Are they for ever?? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Joywitch Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 14 december 2000 05:16 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teaser Poster --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, hedwigthecat at a... wrote: > But the title of the film is Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's > Stone.............. > > Are the folks at Dark Horizon's aware of this...? > My understanding is that the movie will be released as Sorcerer's Stone in the U.S. and Philosopher's Stone in the U.K., just like the books. Any scenes that mention the words Sorcerer or Philosopher will be shot twice. Sorry, but I do not remember where I read that; it was months ago. --Joywitch eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 14 18:17:04 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:17:04 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Sorcerer's Stone References: Message-ID: <020e01c06605$bc2cdbe0$43c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 6924 I wish and I think I said so earlier in this group, 'they' would for once and all stop britifying American books and vice versa. Any reading person sooner or later gets some knowledge about those differences in language and IF they don't understand all the text there sure are dictionaries to look the missing words up. catrina angry European, and English is Not her first language ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: wren lanier Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 14 december 2000 06:25 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Sorcerer's Stone i'm an american, and i knew what the hell the Philosopher's Stone was. no, there is no concept of "sorceror's stone" in america, and yes, they changed it all through the book. the sorceror's stone was referred to in the books like just another magical object , instead of a larger idea associated with alchemy like a philosopher's stone. it pisses me off that "they" (whoever they are) assume that just because we're american we need a dumbed-down version of the books. i say give us the originals and let the stupid fend for themselves. wren Sorry but I must ask this: What is a Sorcerer's Stone? Now I thought the Philosopher's Stone was the missing ingredient needed to change base metals into gold, and it was searched for by the alchemists, eg. Flamel. If I remember, this was actually mentioned in HP-PS. I understand that the Americans changed the title to Sorcerer's Stone. Did they also change it right through the book? Is the historical Philosopher's Stone actually called a 'sorcerer's stone' in America? I just can't get my head around that. Simon. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 19:56:28 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:56:28 -0000 Subject: Tom Riddle and Brazilian translations In-Reply-To: <91ae0k+j52g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91b8lc+iju8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6925 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Andrea Bonfanti" wrote: > Hi, everyone! > Well, I don't know if this thread is already dead, but I still wanted > to say something! > I'm Brazilian, but I've bought and read the 4 books in English. The > Brazilian version of PoA has just been launched, and I have spent an > awful lot of time at bookshops browsing through the books to see how > they've done it. My teenage pupils also help me with this. > > The solution they found for the Tom Riddle anagram was a pretty good > one, IMO: "Tom Servolo Riddle"-> "Eis Lord Voldemort" (which > translates as "Here is Lord Vold" or "This is Lord Vold". > Thats pretty clever -- they managed to do it without changing Tom Riddles name. I tried to figure out if they could have figured out a middle name for him that would result in Sou Lord Voldemort (I am Lord Voldemort, in Portuguese) but that would have required changing his name to Tom Sorvolo Ruddle, or Tom Survolo Roddle. Oh, and welcome to the group Andrea, who I of course noticed is yet ANOTHER person from a non-English-speaking country who speaks English about a million times better than Ive ever learned to speak another language. Sigh. --Joywitch From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 14 18:37:59 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:37:59 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) References: Message-ID: <022301c0660c$dfca6d40$64148cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6926 > I do think Latin is silly, but if I ever get round to studying a language > properly then it is high up on the list of possibilities. Latin isn't silly. It is a quite beautiful language. I just wish I could have been better at it !! Michelle From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 20:43:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:43:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 23: The Yule Ball References: <01C0660C.20898CE0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A3930EF.5DC501C2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6927 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > "The Dursleys (boo, hiss) give Harry a single tissue ("an all-time low")." > > This always bothers me a bit - Why do they give him anything at all? Surely the > insult takes more thought than nothing? (but it is funny!) Probably because the Dursleys are concerned with form, not substance. They move in a world defined by what "people" think; this is the only reason they took Harry in, I believe--it was what was "expected." The form. Of the substance of a home, they give nothing. So, to not send a present at all violates the form, so they must send something. Hence the Kleenex. Or so I think. --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 20:51:52 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:51:52 -0000 Subject: Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) In-Reply-To: <022301c0660c$dfca6d40$64148cd4@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <91bbt8+f0uu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6928 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > > I do think Latin is silly, but if I ever get round to studying a > language > > properly then it is high up on the list of possibilities. I took four years of Latin. I loved it and never regretted it. I've always loved words and language and etymology and Latin is the perfect language to study for that. And of course, now it turns out that it's the language of magic. Who knew? (My old Latin teacher never mentioned it.) I just took it to pick up girls. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 20:52:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:52:42 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic)] Message-ID: <3A39331A.1F75879@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6929 This is another plummy comment on the HP heraldry, from my heraldry group. I thought it was worth passing on. I, too, had thought the arms of the four Houses might be attributed rather than what the founders actually bore, although those wonderful, simple designs do argue for an early date. Nota Bene: I do heraldry as a hobby; if I've not explained any unfamiliar terms, it's because I'm too familiar with them; just ask. If it's worth the trouble... --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:59:25 -0500 From: Julie Stampnitzky Reply-To: Discussions of SCA Heraldry To: SCAHRLDS at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Bjarni wrote: > Not to mention the fact that the "crests" depicted for the four houses > are completely different from those emblazoned on my Hogwarts coffee > cup (designed, I believe, by the Hallmark College of Heralds). On the > other hand, given how different things are in Harry's world, should we > expect anything less? The frontispiece of the British editions shows the arms of the four houses quartered together. These are supposed to be the arms borne by the four founders of Hogwarts, about a thousand years ago. Which means that these are probably actually their _attributed_ arms. (Though in either case I cannot fathom how anyone could pass up the chance to cant on "Gryffindor" and "Ravenclaw.") Seeing how Harry's world, at least the Muggle side of it, resembles ours, I suspect that the world's history was the same as ours. (The idea being that we might in fact be living in his world without even knowing it, being Muggles.*) Of course, wizards might have developed heraldry earlier than the rest of the world. (Aha! The true source of heraldry!) To answer your question, I'd sooner believe in a world where Hogwarts exists than one where a charge may (must?) be the same color as half the field. [*] I speak for myself here, not to include any non-muggles on this list. -Julie From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 20:56:20 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:56:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wand Order Story for Salon.com References: <001801c06562$d6a1c420$6597bc3e@joy> <3A38D9D8.3493A97C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A3933F3.80EF51CA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6930 If she wants to work up a catalog of possible satisfactory scenarios that would let James come out first (which she might not), there were quite a few, as I recall; why not have her join and look through the archives? Or tell her the message numbers of the most likely? --Amanda Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I have an update on the Salon.com article. I'm not sure if the reporter ever > did visit us formally, but I contacted her individually. I've cut & pasted > below what I sent to her. She wrote back and asked if she could quote me in her > article as she liked my articulation of the basic issues surrounding this > "correction." I wrote back & gave her permission to quote me, and I asked her > to please mention this group as a whole. I stressed, for example, that I > certainly can't take credit for coming up with the explanation/theory for the > wand order problem that I always liked the best (credit to Trina for that one): > that Harry wanted to see his father so badly that he managed to magically cause > the images to reverse themselves in the wand. > > Joy Wotton wrote: > > > Bad Borders. I went to their shop on Charing Cross Road in London this > > evening. They are selling the original version of GOBLET for 11.99 and the > > new version for 14.99 - with no indication at all why the prices are > > different. > > Wow! I haven't noticed a price difference in the US -- anyone else? > > > Looking at the corrected Wand Order scene I see that the correction fits > > neatly within the spread and doesn't roll on to the following page. Find it > > hard to believe that JR rewrote this herself since the simple transposition of > > mother and father leads to the statement when Lily emerges that Harry > > sees the woman he has thought of more often than any other that night. But are > > there ANY other women in Harry's life who are of such overwhelming importance > > that he would think of them? > > No, I don't think so Joy. That's basically what I said to the reporter, but I > may forward your message to her anyway in case she wants to add your spin on > it. I did not, for example, make mention of what you point out: the > "corrections" don't require page layout changes. Surely they aren't trying to > be *cheap* are they???!! > > > Perhaps because we have discussed this at length, I find that the first > > version of the scene (although wrong according to the facts as we know them) > > makes much more sense because it strengthens our picture of Harry's > > relationship with his father. The second version doesn't add to our picture > > of Lily and I find it lacks depth. > > I agree. I think Harry clearly is portrayed as having a more emotional > connection to his father-- or at least we (and Harry) learn so much more about > his father in PoA, that it *seems* as though he has a more emotional connection > with his father, which, of course, is validated by the original version of this > scene. I'm with Joy: the corrected version not only makes no sense, it lacks > depth. > > Penny (my message to Kera is below this) > > Hi Kera -- > > Brian Dorband forwarded me your email address and your message regarding your > research into the change in the "wand order" passage from Goblet of Fire. I'm > the "listmom" for the Harry Potter for Grownups group > (HPforGrownups at egroups.com). Our members recognized this issue immediately, and > since July, we have developed a variety of theories about why James might have > emerged from the wand prior to Lily. > > Needless to say, we were completely taken aback that (a) it was *just* a > mistake, (b) the "correction" was done silently and (c) the "corrected" passage > reads very strangely (in the opinion of most of us anyway). I would say that > most of us believe that it was a colossal mistake to have > slipped by JK Rowling *and* the editorial staff at both Bloomsbury & > Scholastic. It was a passage that gave virtually all of us pause on the first > read, so we can't help but wonder whether the editors were completely asleep at > the wheel to have missed it. Many of us have speculated that the release > deadline for GoF contributed to several errors that should have been corrected > with adequate editorial supervision & reasonable deadlines (the "wand order" > passage being the most glaring example of course). > > We also wonder about the corrected passage. It doesn't really make sense > internally. Whoever made the change did so without much thought it would > appear. It's really not enough to simply change the pronouns and proper names > to make Lily appear before James. There is a passage > in the original version where Harry thinks to himself that he knew whoit would > be coming out of the wand next, because it was the man he'd thought of more than > any other that night. That was beautiful & emotionally evocative because Harry > *had* been thinking of his father. It makes considerably less sense to say that > he'd been thinking of Lily more than any woman that night, when in fact, he > hadn't had any thoughts about Lily that are conveyed to the reader. > > The theory that we originally came up with that *I* liked the best was that > Harry unconsciously *wanted* to see his father so desperately at that point that > he somehow magically caused the images inside the wand to reverse order. Of > course, we had a number of other theories, ranging > from perfectly plausible to insane, and I'd be happy to share those with you in > more detail if you're interested. > > Good luck with this article, and we would all certainly love to know when it is > released. Please feel free to join our group if you're so inclined, even > temporarily for purposes of discussing this issue with > the members. You'll find us a diverse and entertaining crowd I think! > > Penny Linsenmayer > pennylin at swbell.net > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 20:57:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:57:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book References: <91am3k+acfg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A393452.D020736B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6931 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > You know, I've been toying with the idea of approaching Scholastic > about doing an annotated HP series. I think that would be very cool... In all seriousness, why not publish the Lexicon? Donate the proceeds to JKR's favorite charity or something, but people would love it. Thoughts? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 14 21:04:20 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:04:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Elvis References: Message-ID: <3A3935D3.69D04FD4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6932 Nathan wrote: > Just a note on the French translation... Tom Elvis??!! > Am I the only one weirded out by the idea of Elvis as > a part of the Wizarding World? Why? It explains a whoooole lot of things, now, doesn't it? --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 21:08:43 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:08:43 -0000 Subject: Beacham book In-Reply-To: <3A393452.D020736B@texas.net> Message-ID: <91bcsr+f7qf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6933 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > > You know, I've been toying with the idea of approaching Scholastic > > about doing an annotated HP series. I think that would be very cool... > > In all seriousness, why not publish the Lexicon? Donate the proceeds to > JKR's favorite charity or something, but people would love it. Thoughts? > > --Amanda Well, technically speaking, the Lexicon IS published. JKR herself said that she was going to do her own encyclopedia when the series is done and that fans should "accept no substitutes." The publishers of the Beacham book were sued by Scholastic etc but it failed to stop the book going to press. I don't want to offend anyone or cause problems, especially with Jo. I would love to have her give her blessing to such a project (I have these fond little daydreams of getting email from her one day saying she liked the Lexicon and offering suggestions). But without her permission, I won't publish it in any form except online. She's entitled to that market, not me and not the Beacham author. I'm just filling in until she gets time to do it (or wants to hire me to do it for her! Now THERE'S a thought!!!) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 14 21:13:02 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:13:02 -0000 Subject: Wand Order Story for Salon.com In-Reply-To: <3A3933F3.80EF51CA@texas.net> Message-ID: <91bd4u+8ihv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6934 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > If she wants to work up a catalog of possible satisfactory scenarios that would let > James come out first (which she might not), there were quite a few, as I recall; why > not have her join and look through the archives? Or tell her the message numbers of > the most likely? > > --Amanda There's a scenario complete with detailed timeline of the event on and about Oct 31 1980 on the Lexicon. It would be cool if she'd mention that too (just trying to up my hit counts, you know -- been falling off a bit lately). Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Dec 14 21:34:12 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:34:12 -0000 Subject: Beacham book and obsession In-Reply-To: <91aqih+10ia9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91beck+ofun@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6935 I have an additional copy of the Schafer (Beacham) book. I bought it when it first came out as a gift for my stepdaughter who has an 8 and a 10 year-old who both love HP. After reading the first few chapters I decided that it would be a pretty poor gift, and got the kids HP t- shirts instead. Since I'm not doing anything with it, I'll be happy to make it a contribution to our "reviewers." A second copy might be helpful, since I expect that the margins of the first copy are getting pretty full of wisecr... uh, "analysis"... by now. Should Heidi or someone coordinate the lists of recipients for both copies? Just e-mail me an address and I'll send it. -Jim Flanagan. _____________ Is it a coincidence that the names Schafer, Stouffer, and Skeeter all start with the letter "S"? Hmmmmmm... _____________ > What is happening with the circulation of the bad Beachem book? I > signed up many months ago for the crit list. Can I have it after > Steve, or are others still waiting for it too? > > --Joywitch From chrisworm at hotmail.com Thu Dec 14 21:36:02 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:36:02 -0000 Subject: Essays In-Reply-To: <00ed01c065cd$06eefac0$802e07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91beg2+fp89@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6936 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > > The > paper is in Danish, but if you want, I could do a quick translation > > and post it for you?!? > > Well, if you have some time to spare and it's not too bothersome... I know > it's only ten days to christmas and everyone has other things on his mind!. > > Dinah If you can wait about a week, ie. until after the 21st (Ihave another paper due), I'll be happy to do it. It'll be fun to get the response of somebody outside my class. Would that be ok with you??? Christine From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 14 21:44:53 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:44:53 -0000 Subject: Let' get it right- Philosopher's Stone (was Re: Sorcerer's Stone) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91bf0l+egdn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6937 Stephanie wrote: Heck, I am 16 and knew what the Philosophers stone was....but Americans in general have to be different. I would assume they would be the publishers. But, get used to it, everyone treats poor america like the heathen nation But like everyone else, i dont see the point in changing the title. > A Stupid American ;) > Stephanie > Firstly, I am the same age and like you I don't find this difficult. Secondly, I must say we're not ALL stupid...ok who am I kidding America seems to be a nation full of total gits. Honestly, if you don't know what a PS is LOOK IT UP!!! Maybe the worst part about this is that little kids don't get the historical references to alchemy that are pretty much blatantly obvious in the book. Then again most Americans wouldn't know what alchemy was if a REAL Philosopher's stone fell on their head... > PS- I am interested in Cambridge and Oxford, but as a US student i dont know > how well this would work. Is there andyone from England on the list who > could tell me about the areas? > (I am bowing and scraping for forgiveness bc of my off topicness) I for one, do not find this at all irrelevant, though it is completely OT. I mentioned that I am also 16, but you might find it interesting to know that I too am VERY interested in Oxbridge. For more information on American applications to the UK try- http://www.ucas.ac.uk/studyuk/index.html I am glad to here somebody else interested in this. Also, I know that Simon attends uni at Oxford and John at St. Andrews in Scotland. John is a Yank, too (unless I'm terribly mistaken). They could give you some info on their respective Universities, and I'll be glad to send you information about College Admissions in General if you're interested email be privately at harry_potter00 at yahoo.com RANT WARNING! The end of term at my HS is fast approaching and so are the dreaded exams. Luckily I don't think I shall have to take any. It does turn out though that in a last effort to get people to study the principal is offering monetary prizes to those who stay for tutorials. It really annoys me that someone would study just to get some money! They will not actually learn anything if they don't care enough about it to do so otherwise. If a class is hard they can deal with it! Get some help but whatever they do they shouldn't sit there and complain.... errr, sorry that you had to read that last part. Unless of course if you didn't and in which case don't bother... Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 14 22:00:20 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:00:20 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) References: <91bbt8+f0uu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <02b801c06619$47faacc0$64148cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 6938 The last two lines after your posting were what I wrote. I did study Latin ( from 10 until 18 ). Still miss it. I've always loved words and language and etymology and Latin is the perfect language to study for that. Same here. I got throught as far as I did because I could guess words from English and French. Who knew? (My old Latin teacher never mentioned it.) I just took it to pick up girls. Umm...Latin as a way of meeting women. That's a new one on me !! Michelle From Ellimist15 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 22:59:59 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:59:59 EST Subject: Beacham Book Message-ID: <7d.e39f91a.276aaaf0@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6939 > I'm glad Carole is forwarding it to you Steve. We'll be anxiously > awaiting your formal verdict. As you'll see when you get it, Heidi > definitely wanted us to all write our comments in the margins. I would > imagine it might be littered with sarcastic remarks & corrections in the > margins by this point! Is there any way that I could read it, too? I'd be willing to pay postage, of course. Who should I email with my address? Ellie From Ellimist15 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 23:10:25 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:10:25 EST Subject: Hermione Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6940 Simon said: << Can I get away with accusing Jo or Mary Sue? Or the real question is: Is Hermione an example of Mary Sue? Go read this for more amusement: http://www.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=story-read&storyid=139773 >> Glad you liked it! I had no idea so many people found this so amusing. I would have posted it sooner! Ellie From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 14 23:29:32 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:29:32 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book and obsession Message-ID: <51.4cc7041.276ab1dc@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6941 In a message dated 12/14/00 4:35:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu writes: > Is it a coincidence that the names Schafer, Stouffer, and Skeeter all > start with the letter "S"? Hmmmmmm... > You forgot Slytherin. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 15 00:49:20 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:49:20 -0000 Subject: HP Plot Synopsis (song) Message-ID: <91bpqg+qted@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6942 The following song is more or less sung to the tune of The Presidents' Song from the Animaniacs (episode 75), which in turn is more or less sung to the final section of Rossini's William Tell Overture (i.e., the Lone Ranger part). It can be heard on the second of their Sing-Along videos (both of which are recommended without reservation as among the pinnacles of recent animation and song-writing). I apologize for choosing so obscure a song, but as Mr. Ollivander once observed, it is the wand that chooses the wizard, not vice versa. The synopsis consists of, in addition to an introduction and epilogue, six quatrains on each book. [Introduction] Heigh-ho! Here we go! What follows is a summary Of the books we spent last summer re- Reading, And then speeding through For another quick HP review .. [Book One] Voldy crashes his hard drive And the infant Harry, quite alive, Gets dropped off on Privet Drive, Ten years later those letters arrive .. Harry Potter, feeling no smarter, Goes to Hogwarts and success On Train Station Nine and Three-Quarter Mrs. Weasley gains his access He meets Ron and his pet rat Draco Malfoy picks a spat He ponders with the sorting hat Winds up in Gryffindor, just like that Harry trolls with Hermione With Quidditch feels reborn Meets with centaurs (they're like ponies) On a search for unicorn With this stone someone's trying to make off ? (er, Is it Sorcerer's or Philosopher's?); Hagrid hatches a baby dragon Fluffy's tail is always waggin' Harry goes through the faculty's maze Meets Voldy (sort of) face-to-face Dumbledore makes sure he gets displaced And Gryffindor finishes in first place [Book Two] Dobby, acting quite bizarre, Gets Harry thrown under lock and bar He's rescued by the Weasley's flying car Which he later drives a bit too far Arthur fights Lucius in Diagon shops While Lockhart craves his photo ops On Halloween Night Sir Nicholas bops Colin Creevey follows Harry nonstop When those around him turn to stone Harry finds that he alone Gets pegged as heir to Slytherin's Throne And there's this ghost named Myrtle who moans Talking with snakes makes argument boil, And thanks to Polyjuice Ron and Harry become Crabbe and Goyle A magic diary gets perused Harry wins at Quidditch on his broom And follows the snake to the secret room, Learns Tom Riddle's a nom de plume For none other than You-Know-Whom But the bird is mightier, so's the sword And Harry thwarts the evil Lord Ginny to Mom and Dad's restored So ends two years of room and board [Book Three] Harry from the Dursley's again's discharged After blowing up his Aunt Marge Learns that Sirius Black's at large, Takes a magic bus trip free of charge Hot on the fugitive wizard's scent are Eerie beings called Dementors Their appearance occasions much complaint Their very sight makes Harry faint Harry sees a creature called a Grim Trelawney says it's after him. Lupin teaches Dark Arts combat Crookshanks starts to smell a rat Then, the meeting with Black, long-anticipated (Hold on, this gets complicated!) Sirius was unjustly incarcerated Due to Peter, non-assassinated Lupin's the first one to perceive That Sirius' story they must believe. That Wormtail assumed a ratty shape Then, the door swings opens ? yikes, it's Snape! Now to prevent a further shock Our heroes must turn back the clock Sirius & Buckbeak flee the dock And in Patronum we can take stock [Book Four] At the home of Thomas Riddle Voldy, not quite fit as a fiddle, Spies a muggle, strikes him dead - With a jolt leaps Harry out of bed Now it's on to the Quidditch World Cup: Ireland creams Bulgaria But when Voldy's masked Death Eaters whirl up It's total mass hysteria Then, an event of renown and fame: Hogwarts sponsors the Triwizards game - Three scrolls emerge from the cup of flame But then a fourth ? with Harry's name! Harry takes tasks one, two and three And fashions a joint victory But the trophy is a hidden portkey (Alas, Cedric Diggory!) Moldy Voldy, cruel and old, he's Resurrected physically But when his wand gets put on hold, he's Forced to look on quizzically As he is mobbed by a crowd of ghosts (All of who like Harry most) Moody's really Crouch and then he's toast As Fudge fumes at his Hogwarts hosts. [epilogue] And so then Volume Four is done Of this fantasy series second to none What further twists will JKR have spun? Just hold on tight till November One! - CMC From Joy_Wotton at msn.com Thu Dec 14 23:43:59 2000 From: Joy_Wotton at msn.com (Joy Wotton) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:43:59 -0000 Subject: Wand Order Story for Salon.com Message-ID: <002c01c06630$bfd2cae0$729cbc3e@joy> No: HPFGUIDX 6943 I shall be interested to see the Salon.com article. <> <> That's fine with me, Penny! <> I think this is a mixture of cheap and expedient. Let us suppose that JR decided not to rewrite the passage herself, but simply suggested that mother/father should be swopped around. The publisher would make minimal changes for fear of introducing new errors (and b'lieve me this happens ALL the time!). Or perhaps JR told the publisher that yes she had got the order wrong and no she hadn't got time to rewrite the passage at present. This would be a holding measure, and perhaps the text will be thoroughly revamped when the series is correct. Or perhaps they want to stick or "tip in" the pages into the book without going to the expense of pulping the old ones but just removing the offending pages and sticking in some new ones. That would certainly mean keeping the corrections into as small a space as possible. And just what, I wonder, is happening in the foreign editions. Did they have the wand order mistake? Are they now being corrected? It's much easier to ask questions than to answer them, but I do agree that the original version has more emotional impact than the revised version. In the words of 1066 AND ALL THAT do you prefer the Cavaliers who were Wrong but Wromantic or the Roundheads who were Right but Repulsive? Joy From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 01:45:43 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 01:45:43 -0000 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91bt47+qfnj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6944 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > > it pisses me off that "they" (whoever they are) assume that just because > we're american we need a dumbed-down version of the books. i say give us > the originals and let the stupid fend for themselves. > > wren It seems they have; in SS, the Americanization even extends to the Waesleys aclling their mother "Mom" instead of "Mum"; with each successive book the level of change seems to drop off- my American GoF has a description of bubotuber pus "smelling strongly of petrol", and the maze being set up on the "Quidditch pitch" This begs the question; is it because of a) fan pressure, b) JKR's increasing clout, c) a conscious decision on Scholastic's part, or d) the fact that CoS and PoA were both rushed to press in the US ahead of schedule while GoF is so huge? From hedwigthecat at aol.com Fri Dec 15 02:16:46 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:16:46 EST Subject: Let' get it right- Philosopher's Stone- RANT warning..... Message-ID: <51.4cee7cb.276ad90e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6945 In a message dated 12/14/2000 1:46:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes: << Firstly, I am the same age and like you I don't find this difficult. Secondly, I must say we're not ALL stupid...ok who am I kidding America seems to be a nation full of total gits. Honestly, if you don't know what a PS is LOOK IT UP!!! Maybe the worst part about this is that little kids don't get the historical references to alchemy that are pretty much blatantly obvious in the book. Then again most Americans wouldn't know what alchemy was if a REAL Philosopher's stone fell on their head... >> Must you , or anyone, insult another country and those living in it? The title was changed for good intentions or no, but it was done. I didn't know what a PS was, had no idea the title in the UK was different for very good reasons until I was told. I am completely offended by the comments above and don't appreciate them in the least - regardless of how old you are. Can we leave insults like this out of posts? We're here to discuss Harry Potter and have fun doing so, I don't see the relevance of insulting an entire country simply to make a point or otherwise. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 02:23:54 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:23:54 -0000 Subject: Don't Send Dementors (song) In-Reply-To: <915acc+cphl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91bvbq+u3qo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6946 I know this one was awhile back, but I wanted to say what great fun it was. I love all your songs. I have to admit, if I had any talent I'd be immitating you and trying to do another demetor one with Dumbledore, Harry and Lupin singing 'Don't Fear Dementors'. But as I don't I guess Blue Oyster Cult won't be getting any imaginary royalties from me. Thanks again - I really enjoy these! kimberly --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > DON'T SEND DEMENTORS > > (to the tune of Return to Sender) > > (Enter Cornelius Fudge, onto a darkened stage) > > FUDGE: > There is an outlaw I'm pursuin' > Goes by the name of Black > So let me tell ya what I'm doin' > In order to bring him back > I'm now about to > > (lights up, revealing three Dementors) > > FUDGE & THREE DEMENTORS > Send out Dementors! > Search and destroy! > Bring in sorrow! > Suck out joy! > 3D: Our heads are hooded! > We've rotting hands! > We're just the guys you need to take Black back to Azkaban > > (Enter HARRY POTTER & SIRIUS BLACK) > > HARRY: > Please don't think that I'm complaintin' > But while ridin' on the tracks > This thing glides past me and I'm faintin' > While it looks for Sirius Black > We wanna tell `em . > > HP & SB:Don't send Dementors! > They're far too grim! > HP: Black didn't do it > But they're after him! > SB: Their heads are hooded! > They've rotting hands! > HP: Please don't let them take my godfather back to Azkaban! > > HARRY: > This time I'll go to Lupin and have him learn me a little spell > And if a Dementor comes back the next day, this is what I'll > yell: > > HARRY & SIRIUS > Come forth, Patronus! > Please dismiss > Each Dementor > And its kiss! > > - CMC From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 02:30:12 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 02:30:12 -0000 Subject: Yule Ball/Caribbean/Announcements Message-ID: <91bvnk+j9hf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6947 Hi, everyone... I've missed the list these past few weeks! 1) I've read the recent Yule Ball posts with interest. My take on Hermione's big entrance is that Harry was just as floored as Ron... after all, neither of them have ever seen her dressed up. I'd post more, but I'm sure Penny's said it all already. :) 2) Regarding characters with West Indian ancestry: I'm writing a Harry Potter fic (finally). Although it's primarily focused on Hermione and Ron's marriage troubles, Angelina is the viewpoint narrator. I've decided for my purposes that the Johnsons immigrated to Britain from Jamaica the year she was born (according to GoF, she was born September 1977--exactly a month after me!). I imagine a grownup Angelina to be a Thandie Newton type--very British, but very cosmopolitan. The Johnsons came to Britain to work at the Federation during the height of the Voldemort years. They liked the diversity of the magical community so much that they stayed even after 1981. Lee Jordan makes a guest appearance in the fic outline, although I don't know if he'll make the final cut. I'm not sure if he's black or not... I'm sort of taken with the grunge idea. If my past writing trends carry over into fanfic, I'll probably end up making him multiracial--the idea of a colorful ethnomagical ancestry is appealing. In response to earlier posts, Hermione is *not* black or Jewish in my mind. I still have trouble imagining her with bushy hair and big teeth, much less anything else. 3) I've gotten the job of my dreams. I'll be teaching AP English 11 and Creative Writing at nationally-ranked Cass Technical High School starting August 2001. I'll miss my fifth graders, but there's always AOL and visits. BTW, the HP scholarly paper is tabled. I did well in the theory class (A-plus), but the prof decided I needed to focus on other things. Long story... because of the diverse sociopolitical views on this list, I'd rather not risk a flame war by elaborating. Suffice it to say that the world is an interesting place. To Harry Potter--the Boy Who Lived! Ebony AKA AngieJ From gkallen2 at home.com Fri Dec 15 05:47:53 2000 From: gkallen2 at home.com (Greg and Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:47:53 -0800 Subject: Just joined - looking for help ! Message-ID: <002a01c0665a$923c77a0$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6948 Hello everyone, I'm Kelly, and I've just joined this group. I just started reading the HP books about 3 months ago. I've read them all (at least once), and I've also listened to the tapes by Jim Dale, I'm 1/2 way thru GoF tapes right now. Please forgive me if this subject has been beat to death. . . I'm wondering why Voldemort wanted to kill James and Harry? Voldemort himself said that Lily needn't have died, but she wouldn't let him kill Harry, so he had to kill her. (I think - I've lent the books to my sister, and so I don't have accurate references at the moment.) In PS/SS when Harry asked Dumbledore why Voldemort wanted to kill him, Dumbledore said something to the effect that Harry was too young right now, but when he was older and ready, he would know. So Voldemort wanted James, and his son, Harry dead - but didn't care about Lily. And in CoS, Tom Riddle asked Harry why Voldemort wasn't able to kill him. Harry said because my mom died to protect me. Tom responded with something like "Oh, that's all - I thought that maybe --- " and leaves it at that. So anyway, that has been bugging me, and I've not seen any reference to it on any of the web pages - though I've just started looking this week. So, again, I ask your forgiveness if this is an old subject, and also because of my lack of accurate, specific references but I'm too curious to wait! THANKS, Kelly (Michigan, USA) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Dec 15 02:46:27 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:46:27 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: <3a.e3087f1.276ae003@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6949 In a message dated 12/13/2000 1:51:59 AM EST, catlady at wicca.net writes: << For that matter, I don't have GOOD evidence from the books that Hermione has Caribbean ancestry. In one book, where Harry meets up with her right after summer vacation (in France) and she was 'looking very brown', I always knew that meant she was suntanned more than usual, which in turn means that her winter skin color is not entirely dark (dark enough people don't get darker from sun). There are a mess of people telling me that the description of her hair as 'bushy' means something different than 'nappy', and I myself have met a family of very pale people who have big teeth. I think my opinion may be based more on Hermione reminding me of someone I used to know who had Caribbean ancestors. >> Hermione reminds me of my sister's best friend in high school and college, Livvy (short for Olivia). Livvy has olive skin that tans really well, bushy brown hair and brown eyes. She is also smart, a bit bookish and *lots* of fun to hang out with and very cool. Livvy is a Reformed Jew of some sort of Mediterranean/Semitic ancestry whose family has always celebrated Christmas as a secular, Santa Clausy type holiday. Livvy was in Pennsylvania last time I heard from her. I miss her. Love & Light, Elizabeth From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 03:01:09 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:01:09 -0000 Subject: Mea Culpa (was Re: Let' get it right- Philosopher's Stone- RANT warning.....) In-Reply-To: <51.4cee7cb.276ad90e@aol.com> Message-ID: <91c1hl+qugo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6950 Oh dear this is NOT what I was intending at all, and a sincerely profound apology to you. I am in no means trying to offend anyone, though I can see that it may have come off that way. May I point out that I am an American myself, and what I was trying to insinuate was that we can figure out things for ourselves instead of having them changed for us. I might also add that I didn't know what a Sorcerer's Stone/ Philiosopher's stone was when first reading the books nor was I very well knowledged about Alchemy. I did however learn about these things from reading the books, and I think that so should others. > Secondly, I must say we're not ALL stupid...ok who am I kidding > America seems to be a nation full of total gits. I would like officially retract the above statement. The REAL truth is that no matter where one is from it is the choices that we make, our determination and our character that allows us to be successful. It does not matter what features one has. The stereotype which I created was not only inappropriate but wrong, and shows very little of what I hope is my own character. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From morine10 at aol.com Fri Dec 15 03:34:26 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:34:26 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just joined - looking for help ! Message-ID: <36.f4d526f.276aeb42@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6951 In a message dated 12/14/00 9:43:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, gkallen2 at home.com writes: > Please forgive me if this subject has been beat to death. . . I'm wondering > why Voldemort wanted to kill James and Harry? Voldemort himself said that > Lily needn't have died, but she wouldn't let him kill Harry, so he had to > Welcome Kelly! One theory is that James (and therefore Harry) was a direct descendent of Godric Gryffindor. (the Potters lived in Godric's Hollow) In PoA Trelawney has a "real" prediction which Dumbledore says is her second. The thinking is that her first prediction was that a descendent of Gryffindor would defeat the heir of Slytherin. Somehow Voldemort new of this prediction and sought to destroy Gryffindor's descendents before they got to him. Lily didn't have to die since she was not a blood relation to Gryffindor. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 15 03:48:29 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:48:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Let' get it right- Philosopher's Stone (was Re: Sorcerer's Stone) References: <91bf0l+egdn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A39948D.885A1834@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6952 Scott wrote: > Then again most > Americans wouldn't know what alchemy was if a REAL Philosopher's > stone fell on their head... Especially since the REAL philosopher's stone is not a stone at all, but an elixir, O Educated One.... --Amanda, ducking and running From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Dec 15 04:15:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:15:32 -0000 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91c5t4+ovle@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6953 > > it pisses me off that "they" (whoever they are) assume that just because we're american we need a dumbed-down version of the books. i say give us the originals and let the stupid fend for themselves. > > wren > > > I second that emotion...Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Dec 15 04:22:49 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:22:49 -0000 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone In-Reply-To: <3A390D04.8DFBF545@texas.net> Message-ID: <91c6ap+k18b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6954 are continuing > I must agree, down to the vehemence. I think changing the name is the > silliest thing I've ever heard of. I, however, figured they did it to avoid offending the lunatic fundamentalists on the face of it. You know, alchemy, Satan's work, human sacrifice, blood of unbaptised infants, the whole thing. > This seemed a useless move to me, since those who walk around waiting to be offended, will be, and you can't change the substance of the story. Maybe Susan's right and it was a boy-marketing move-- did you read that someplace? I read somewhere that they didn't think American kids would buy anything called the Philosopher's Stone and that Sorcerer's Stone would appeal more (I can't remember if it was gender specific. > It makes just as little sense. But the change does insult the intelligence > of any educated American person. > > Okay, you can all put your teeth back in, I *can* agree with Susan on > occasion... > > (I am *teasing* you, Susan....) > > --Amanda Don't worry everyone, if I didn't want to be suspended I'd post "God reverses the Supreme Court" and Amanda could disagree with me again. From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 04:29:49 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:29:49 -0000 Subject: More Harry Potter "Collectables?" In-Reply-To: <90a259+blro@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91c6nt+sa9c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6955 They're coming up with some pretty cool stuff. I got a HP StoryScope (the thing Dennis called "the little picture viewer"), which is something that you look in to see one of the characters or places and a little story about it. I've also seen HP pens, gift wrap, stockings, calendars, SORTING HATS, stickers, "collector's stones" (kinda stupid), games, and puzzles. I can see it now: a stupid newspaper article entitled "A Very Harry Christmas." Coming to a newspaper near you! ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Prof. Dumbledore" wrote: > Well, I was off traveling again, this time up in the Philadelphia > area. I wandered around one of the larger shopping Malls (Deptford > Mall in Deptford NJ) and found a whole bunch of HP goodies. > > One store had all the new HP Christmas Ornaments, from Kurt S. Adler > company, plus another had all these interesting figures and from > another company called Enesco. They have some little picture viewers > built into the figures. B.Dalton Books had some wizard hats that are > being put out by Elope. (www.elopehats.com). > > Also found a students planner that had 52 pages of artwork of various > HP topics. Got one for Diann.. > > Watch for "Collectors Value Guide" of "Harry Potter Collectables". > It has photos of much of the various items you can get, as well as > book covers, names of companies who have agreements with WB, etc. It > has some pages on names, history of HP, and various receipes for Rock > Cakes, Spotted Dog, Treacle Tarts, and Trifles. They have a web page > and message board on HP. (www.collectorsquest.com) > > Check your local shopping Mall.. Found most stuff at Store of > Knowledge, and B. Dalton Book sellers. > > Good luck on finding some of this stuff. > > Dennis From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 04:35:16 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:35:16 -0000 Subject: Thank you! Message-ID: <91c724+cgf1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6956 Hi folks, I did my German presentation today on HP and it came out great. Using the most elementary German possible (Ich kann nicht so gut Deutsch sprechen), I told them about JKR and gave them a brief summary of the books. I was also able to give them handouts with pictures of the German versions of the books on them (thanks to the Graphics archives!). I just wanted to thank everyone who sent me HP websites "auf Deutsch"- I used them all. My project was a success because of this group! Danke, danke, danke! ~Kaitlin From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Dec 15 04:36:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:36:44 -0000 Subject: Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) In-Reply-To: <91bbt8+f0uu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91c74s+hsr1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6957 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" > wrote: > > > I do think Latin is silly, but if I ever get round to studying a > > language > > > properly then it is high up on the list of possibilities. > > I took four years of Latin. I loved it and never regretted it. I've > always loved words and language and etymology and Latin is the > perfect language to study for that. And of course, now it turns out > that it's the language of magic. Who knew? (My old Latin teacher > never mentioned it.) I just took it to pick up girls. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon I took six years of Latin and I loved it and wish I were not so rusty at it (did everyone know that hic haec hoc can be declaimed to the tune of the Marine Corps Hymn?) The Aeneid, which is insufferably boring in English, is extremely beautiful in Latin. AND, the first time I looked at the Hogwarts crest, I said "I think it says don't annoy a sleeping dragon....?????" It is so lovely to know the etymology of words, or even to know enough that looking them up is a pleasure..... I don't care. I still want the poster. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Dec 15 04:40:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:40:04 -0000 Subject: North Pole Conspiracy (a Christmas carol)/solidarity forever In-Reply-To: <01C06662.CE7B7740.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91c7b4+glih@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6958 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Dumbledore would NEVER do such a thing! He would be condoning cruelty and > that's not on. Besides I'm sure he's a Union man at heart Of course he is..when last I saw him, he was singing, when the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run, there shall be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun, but what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one, but the union makes us strong...solidarity forever...he was planning the latest campaign against Voldemort...of course...... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Dec 15 04:44:29 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:44:29 -0000 Subject: Mea Culpa (was Re: Let' get it right- Philosopher's Stone- RANT warning.....) In-Reply-To: <91c1hl+qugo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91c7jd+pjke@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6959 > > Secondly, I must say we're not ALL stupid...ok who am I kidding > > America seems to be a nation full of total gits. > > I would like officially retract the above statement. The REAL truth > is that no matter where one is from it is the choices that we make, > our determination and our character that allows us to be successful. > It does not matter what features one has. The stereotype which I > created was not only inappropriate but wrong, and shows very little > of what I hope is my own character. > > Scott > > On the other hand, your acceptance of responsibility and apology demonstrate your character very well. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 15 05:36:46 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:36:46 -0000 Subject: Caribbean In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91cale+58e1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6960 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > if he's not black, that would place Lee [Jordan] in the white-boy > hemp-wearing stoner-deadhead-reggae crowd, (snip) > i kind of like imagining him with long blond, dirty dreadlocks with > some beads on a hemp rope around his neck under his robes, but > thats just my fancy. That's more or less how I imagined Lee when I read mention of the dreadlocks in Book 1. But Book 4 specifically describes him as black. I have often heard it said that assuming that a character is white when their color is not stated is an act of racism, so I feel properly guilty. On another hand, one of the questions on Ellie's Mary Sue quiz was "Is the character the same race as you?" Isn't that called 'writing about what you know'? From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 15 05:48:41 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:48:41 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness In-Reply-To: <918s38+p103@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91cbbp+ccb5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6961 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Christine " wrote: > I wish they would go just a little "merchandising-mad" over here. I > can't find anything! The stuff probably wont turn up until the > movie is out - I would love a Hogwarts mug for Christmas though > (deep sigh) The dark blue mug with the Hogwarts shield of arms is from Warner Bros. I got one at the Warner Bros store in my local mall and I love it: a nice big mug that holds an adequate amount of caffeine. If Meow Hoot doesn't get you one for Xmas, you should be able to order it on-line from wbstore.com once Xmas has passed. A number of other mugs are on offer at http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/order_harrypotter_mugs.htm From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 15 05:51:19 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:51:19 -0000 Subject: Evil Czar (song, or "filk," if you will) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91cbgn+h5en@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6962 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nathan" wrote: > > > > Just a note on the French translation... Tom Elvis??!! > Am I the only one weirded out by the idea of Elvis as > a part of the Wizarding World? > Try this on for size: Evil Czar (to the tune of Teddy Bear) (Enter VOLDEMORT, in sequined jacket, sunglasses, and slicked-back hair; enter as backup trio, WORMTAIL, LUCIUS MALFOY, AND BARTY CROUCH, JR; enter also NAGINI, affectionately curled up beside VOLDEMORT) V: Lord Voldy here ? I've declared war My anagram Tells who I am Tom Riddle's come so far I wanna be TRIO: He wants to be ALL: Your evil czar V: You'll do what I want For you my word is law Fall to one knee And worship me And hold my name is awe `Cause, hey, I'm not TRIO: Cause, hey, he's not ALL: From Ravenclaw (Nagini begins hissing) V: Nagini's now explainin' Our venom's been uncorked ALL: `Cause folks have been maintainin' That every Parseltongue should just get forked V: Now as the heir of Salazar Lloyd Webber will Do a musical And you'll hum every bar Of "You Know-Who ." TRIO: Of "You Know-Who ." ALL: " .You Superstar! - CMC From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 15 06:11:40 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:11:40 -0000 Subject: Vol-de-mort (was SV: Re: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <01be01c06551$699fa380$54c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <91ccms+43c7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6963 New reply at bottom. --- "Sara Ludwig" wrote: voll = full (German) ---Rita Winston catlady at wicca.net wrote: In French, vol = flight or vol = theft This gives us the possibilities: 1)Flight from Death (he is striving for immortality) 2)Flight of Death (and where he lands, he kills someone) 3)Theft from Death (he is stealing immortality/life from death) 4)Theft of Death (by killing all those people, he is stealing Death's privilege of ending their lives at the appointed time) Does everyone know the word 'overdetermined'? Regardless of what it sounds like it might mean, it means an effect that has more than one cause. Maybe the name Voldemort is overdetermined, by having more than one meaning. Maybe the French and German meanings of Vol were *both intended by JKR. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 15 06:28:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:28:19 -0000 Subject: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91cdm3+7f86@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6964 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "~ Leyo ~" wrote: > That's strange, although I only quickly read through the train > journey and sorting ceremony in the English edition, I found no > reference at all to Dean Thomas, let alone to him being black. I > thought it odd that even during the sorting, he is not mentioned! > Harry is sorted into Gryffindor, then Turpin, Lisa is placed in > Ravenclaw. Dean Thomas should have been in between Harry > and Lisa Turpin. Is this different in the American edition? I understand from previous discussion on this list that there is a difference between the US and UK editions in that scene. Someone posted it as "an error in the US edition": the text says now there were only THREE more students to be Sorted, Thomas, Dean, then Turpin, Lisa, then Weasley, Ronald, then Zabini, Blaise -- which is FOUR. But if Dean Thomas was not Sorted at all, that would be an error in the UK edition. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Dec 15 06:32:45 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:32:45 +1100 Subject: Sorting Dean Thomas References: <91cdm3+7f86@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002f01c06660$d7a19b80$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6965 So now both editions are wrong :-( Actually to me Dean Thomas wasn't a major character, perhaps he was in a different year. Unless it states otherwise. Simon. > I understand from previous discussion on this list that there is a > difference between the US and UK editions in that scene. Someone > posted it as "an error in the US edition": the text says now there > were only THREE more students to be Sorted, Thomas, Dean, then > Turpin, Lisa, then Weasley, Ronald, then Zabini, Blaise -- which is > FOUR. But if Dean Thomas was not Sorted at all, that would be an > error in the UK edition. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 15 06:34:07 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:34:07 -0000 Subject: MacNair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91ce0v+80dg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6966 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" Why was a dishonest sadist/bully like Macnair given the good-connotation name of Walden? From machenback at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 07:07:08 2000 From: machenback at hotmail.com (machenback at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:07:08 -0000 Subject: MacNair In-Reply-To: <91ce0v+80dg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91cfus+qpfn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6967 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > > > "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" > > Why was a dishonest sadist/bully like Macnair given the > good-connotation name of Walden? I take it that the "good-connotation" is the word's connection with Thoreau? If so, then I think the answer is that "Walden" would have no such association for the majority of UK readers at least and possibly that JKR chose it out of her collection of interesting sounding words without wanting to make any wider reference.The only time I've ever seen Walden mentioned on the UK is in passing references in the Doonesbury comic strip.I wouldn't call Thoreau a widely recognised figure over here either. From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Dec 15 08:05:31 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:05:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Beacham book and obsession Message-ID: <20001215080531.14628.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6968 --- Jim Flanagan skrev: [snip] > _____________ > > Is it a coincidence that the names Schafer, Stouffer, and Skeeter all > > start with the letter "S"? Hmmmmmm... > _____________ [snip] Somehow, the thought of being classified with *that* lot is not a comforting one... ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 15 08:18:45 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:18:45 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair/US changes References: <91cfus+qpfn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009d01c0666f$bb108940$553770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 6969 Machenback said, in response to comments about Walden McNair: <<<>>> Two Walden references spring to this British mind: Saffron Walden, which is a town, and Brian Walden, who is/was a political journalist, interviewer and former Labour MP. I suppose Brian Walden was known for executing his victims with his hectoring style, but I expect this is another example of JKR using a place name as a given name. Maybe Saffron Walden has some connection with executions...? *** Scott said: <<<>>> I imagine quite a few people, American or British, would not have known much about the Philosopher's Stone or alchemy before this book was published. It seems that the title change was made by Scholastic based on their perception of the readership of the book since, initially at least, they would have been marketing it to children. I think they were wrong to change it, but it was a marketing decision akin to Bloomsbury's decision to change Joanne to JK to avoid alienating potential boy readers. IIRC, JKR has been quoted as saying (not sure when or where) that she approved the changes from British to American English because she wanted every reader (I think she said 'child' but let's not upset Penny unduly) to have the same experience of the books and didn't want them to be stumbling over unfamiliar words. No one would dispute the idea of a translation of the books into French, German or Japanese in the interests of communicating the story, but because the British and American languages are virtually the same there are obviously only a few words that need to be changed and some could argue that they should have been left alone. With the later books, the adult readers had become more vocal [all raise your hands] and the perceived reader group was older, which is a likely reason there were fewer changes in GoF. It would be interesting to hear from other English-speakers (Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians et al). Do you have editions with slight changes? Is Hagrid's hut called a 'batch' in the NZ editions, for example? Are sofas called 'lounges' in the Australian editions? Are there any sofas mentioned at all? I need to know... :-) Neil (Welcome back Ebony and congrats on the job!) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Dec 15 08:41:56 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:41:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sorting Dean Thomas; hats and robes Message-ID: <20001215084156.17489.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6970 He does have his footballteam-poster in the same dorm as Harry and Ron, and I believe he sleeps there as well. Some time ago there was a smallish debate whether Hogwarts-students wore hats or not for class. In the charms-class in PS where they learn the levitation-charm (Wingardium Leviosa), Seamus becomes impatient with not mastering the charm, and sets fire to the practise-feather, and Harry used his hat to put out the fire. Also, in GoF, again in charms-class, when they practise banishing-charms, Ron knocks off Parvati's hat when he misses his aim on one of the pillows. To reopen another small clothes-question, I believe I found support in PS for the presumption of closed school-robes being the norm. When Harry gets his first set of robes at Madame Malkins, she has to slip the robe over his head, which would not be becessary if the robes had an open front. --- Simon Biber skrev: > So now both editions are wrong :-( > > Actually to me Dean Thomas wasn't a major character, perhaps he was > in a > different year. Unless it states otherwise. > > Simon. > [snip] ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Dec 15 09:41:05 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:41:05 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair Message-ID: <01C066D7.5EE14FC0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6971 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > > > "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" > > Why was a dishonest sadist/bully like Macnair given the > good-connotation name of Walden? 1. (unlikely) maybe he turns good later on? 2. Maybe she doesn't like Thoreau? Wasn't he a bit like the french fellow who's name I can't spell (hah! Add that to a long list!) ;little Emile and I can't remember what the girls name was, Anyway the point I am attempting to get to is that Thoreau (and the french fellow) were both people of their time and some of their ideas can be sadly disappointing to a modern reader. storm -----Original Message----- From: machenback at hotmail.com [SMTP:machenback at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 5:07 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair I take it that the "good-connotation" is the word's connection with ? If so, then I think the answer is that "Walden" would have no such association for the majority of UK readers at least and possibly that JKR chose it out of her collection of interesting sounding words without wanting to make any wider reference.The only time I've ever seen Walden mentioned on the UK is in passing references in the Doonesbury comic strip.I wouldn't call Thoreau a widely recognised figure over here either. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Dec 15 09:54:20 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:54:20 +1100 Subject: sofas (was RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair/US changes Message-ID: <01C066D9.3C1ACE60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6972 It would be interesting to hear from other English-speakers (Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians et al). Do you have editions with slight changes? Is Hagrid's hut called a 'batch' in the NZ editions, for example? Are sofas called 'lounges' in the Australian editions? Are there any sofas mentioned at all? I need to know... :-) Neil LOL! I don't believe so, no mysterious chesterfield's indicating eddies in the space/time continuum, I think the only reference is to the chairs in the Gryffindor common room but they seem to be single arm chairs ... AHA - I was moved to double check the most likely scene in GOF (when the Wesley's come to pick Harry up to take him to the world cup) and yes there is a mention of a sofa "Harry retreated to behind the sofa" pg. 43 hardback I thought that the Aust ed was identical to the English version - perhaps someone else can comment on this. storm -----Original Message----- From: Neil Ward [SMTP:neilward at dircon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:19 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair/US changes Machenback said, in response to comments about Walden McNair: <<<>>> Two Walden references spring to this British mind: Saffron Walden, which is a town, and Brian Walden, who is/was a political journalist, interviewer and former Labour MP. I suppose Brian Walden was known for executing his victims with his hectoring style, but I expect this is another example of JKR using a place name as a given name. Maybe Saffron Walden has some connection with executions...? *** Scott said: <<<>>> I imagine quite a few people, American or British, would not have known much about the Philosopher's Stone or alchemy before this book was published. It seems that the title change was made by Scholastic based on their perception of the readership of the book since, initially at least, they would have been marketing it to children. I think they were wrong to change it, but it was a marketing decision akin to Bloomsbury's decision to change Joanne to JK to avoid alienating potential boy readers. IIRC, JKR has been quoted as saying (not sure when or where) that she approved the changes from British to American English because she wanted every reader (I think she said 'child' but let's not upset Penny unduly) to have the same experience of the books and didn't want them to be stumbling over unfamiliar words. No one would dispute the idea of a translation of the books into French, German or Japanese in the interests of communicating the story, but because the British and American languages are virtually the same there are obviously only a few words that need to be changed and some could argue that they should have been left alone. With the later books, the adult readers had become more vocal [all raise your hands] and the perceived reader group was older, which is a likely reason there were fewer changes in GoF. (Welcome back Ebony and congrats on the job!) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Dec 15 09:58:08 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:58:08 +1100 Subject: solidarity forever Message-ID: <01C066D9.CC930F20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6973 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Dumbledore would NEVER do such a thing! He would be condoning cruelty and > that's not on. Besides I'm sure he's a Union man at heart Of course he is..when last I saw him, he was singing, when the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run, there shall be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun, but what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one, but the union makes us strong...solidarity forever...he was planning the latest campaign against Voldemort...of course...... Susan Susan I think you are mocking me! Surely not! storm -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:40 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: North Pole Conspiracy (a Christmas carol)/solidarity forever To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Dec 15 10:39:22 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:39:22 -0000 Subject: Americanisations Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6974 Nlpnt wrote: "It seems they have; in SS, the Americanization even extends to the Waesleys aclling their mother "Mom" instead of "Mum"" They change 'mum' to 'mom'. NOOOOOOOO! This one of only two Americanisations that annoys me (the other being math for mathematics or maths). I can read color instead or colour and not bat an eyelid (or any other similar word spelling change). Oh well will have to ignore the American editions then! Have just noticed that the train line is flooded out on part of my journey home. Oh dear - will just have to go and see how far I can get. Hopefully they have put on a bus service instead. If I do get home then I will not be around to post for a while, so... Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year I will be back, to a screen near you, writing annoying messages and silly stories (which will be posted, hopefully, somewhere soon so you can all enjoy some of us being very silly) in January. Simon From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Dec 15 11:59:16 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:59:16 +1100 Subject: sofas References: <01C066D9.3C1ACE60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <00a001c0668e$7489f000$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 6975 My copy says "Harry retreated to the sofa.", saying nothing about "behind". Was this just your misquote or are they different? Mine is "Printed and bound in Australia by Griffin Press Pty Ltd / Typeset by Dorchester Typesetting / First Australian Edition" Simon. > LOL! I don't believe so, no mysterious chesterfield's indicating eddies in the > space/time continuum, I think the only reference is to the chairs in the > Gryffindor common room but they seem to be single arm chairs ... > > AHA - I was moved to double check the most likely scene in GOF (when the > Wesley's come to pick Harry up to take him to the world cup) and yes there is a > mention of a sofa "Harry retreated to behind the sofa" pg. 43 hardback I > thought that the Aust ed was identical to the English version - perhaps someone > else can comment on this. > > storm From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Dec 15 13:24:05 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 15 Dec 2000 05:24:05 -0800 Subject: Ebony! Message-ID: <20001215132405.27260.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6976 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Dec 15 13:15:17 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:15:17 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sorting Dean Thomas; hats and robes References: <20001215084156.17489.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c0669a$10ba1080$2f2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6977 > He does have his footballteam-poster in the same dorm as Harry and Ron, > and I believe he sleeps there as well. And he takes Divination class with them in PoA. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Dec 15 13:27:46 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 15 Dec 2000 05:27:46 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: More Harry Potter "Collectables?" Message-ID: <20001215132746.27305.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6978 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Dec 15 13:24:39 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:24:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione References: Message-ID: <001e01c0669a$63522b20$2f2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 6979 > Go read this for more amusement: > http://www.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=story-read&storyid=139773 >> I just have to read it!!! (Didn't have the time yet) I often write FanFic with a new character involved and I'm always afraid that I'll create a Mary Sue :-( Dinah From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 15 13:34:53 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:34:53 -0600 Subject: Various Replies Message-ID: <3A3A1DFD.1ABD08ED@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6980 Good morning -- Replying to a variety of posts this morning to clean out my inbox .... HP COLLECTIONS -- Nick, I love your pic of your full collection! I thought I had alot of stuff. Well .... wait till after Christmas! I also thought my study was becoming a bit of a shrine to HP, but my stuff really isn't concentrated in one place as I look around (I have the UK Deluxe editions on display (framed with the WB Train bookends) in the den for example). WB & LEGAL ACTIONS -- > Steve wrote: This was also reported by eonline.com. Warner Bros. states that no > one has EVER been asked to shut down a site, that all they were doing > is inquiring into whether the site is set up to make money, in which > case they WOULD shut it down because it uses a copyrighted name. They > said that they routinely send such inquiries and that this girl > decided to make a fuss about nothing. > My thought about the above is that lawyers do have a way of writing that can be quite intimidating to a layman (even while the same writing is still capable of being minimized with explanations such as the above). I'm not saying that this is what happened; it could well be that this girl is an opportunist as Steve suggests is possible. But, without benefit of the wording of their communications with fan site owners, I'd be inclined to believe that their language was likely designed to intimidate the recipients. AMERICANIZATION & SS/PS -- I agree with those who have ranted that these changes presume a certain ignorance level amongst the overall American population. I also do see the point that JKR made that she *did* want every child to be able to take away the humor & understanding of these books. I think it would have been better (& less offensive to the rest of us) if they had simply included a glossary in the US editions. There could have been an intro page, explaining that there are many differences between American & British English and that indicated readers should consult the handy-dandy glossary at the back of the book. That would have ensured that even the laziest American reader could get the full meaning of the books, without changing words needlessly. Personally, I think most readers could/should have been able to glean the meaning from context in most cases, but I can see the value of including a glossary nonetheless. And, I'm with Simon -- why in the world would you change "Mum" to "Mom"? If *that* isn't obvious from the context, I don't know what is! > This one of only two Americanisations that annoys me (the other being math > for mathematics or maths). > : Do you Brits call this subject "maths" as short for mathematics??? I'd always wondered why you called it maths, as though its plural. Learn something everyday! Hedwig -- I don't think Scott's message was all that rude; he was merely expressing an opinion. Believe me, as listmom, I will definitely step in if someone is being unnecessarily insulting, and we definitely don't tolerate personal attacks on anyone. In any case, he did apologize for offending anyone so hopefully that can be an end to it. FAQS -- The FAQ group is still hard at work! We have given some consideration to approaching a publisher about publishing them in a non-web site format, but haven't made any real progress. For the newbies, I'll recap a bit. There is a FAQ group of about 10 people who are writing substantive FAQs summarizing the discussions on about 60 different topics (Harry, Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore, Magical Creatures, Religion & HP, Wizarding World Govt., Potential Romance Pairings, Magical Devices, Wands -- just to name a handful). We had hoped to post these in October .... then November.... now we are shooting for having at least some of them uploaded by January 1st. In any case, these FAQs will summarize the 15000 messages generated by this group in the past year. Yes .... close to 15,000. You people are quite prolifiic (as if *I* haven't contributed at all ... cough)! DEAN THOMAS -- Dean Thomas is in Harry's year and should have been sorted with the others, so if he wasn't sorted in the UK editions (not going to the den to look), it's an error in that edition. Will reply to Ebony's posts separately .... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 15 13:56:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:56:10 -0600 Subject: Yule Ball/Caribbean/Announcements References: <91bvnk+j9hf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3A22FA.1279D045@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6981 Hi -- Welcome back Ebony!!! Glad you're back again so soon .... Ebony wrote: > 1) I've read the recent Yule Ball posts with interest. My take on > Hermione's big entrance is that Harry was just as floored as Ron... > after all, neither of them have ever seen her dressed up. I'd post > more, but I'm sure Penny's said it all already. :) Well, but I can always use back-up, you know. > 2) Regarding characters with West Indian ancestry: I'm writing a > Harry Potter fic (finally). Although it's primarily focused on > Hermione and Ron's marriage troubles, Angelina is the viewpoint > narrator. I've decided for my purposes that the Johnsons immigrated > to Britain from Jamaica the year she was born (according to GoF, she > was born September 1977--exactly a month after me!). I think this sounds great Ebony!! Can't wait to read it .... > In response to earlier posts, Hermione is *not* black or Jewish in my > mind. I still have trouble imagining her with bushy hair and big > teeth, much less anything else. She's not black or Jewish in my mind either. I think JKR would have been more explicit about the ethnicity of one of her major characters. After all, we're told explicitly that Dean Thomas & Angelina are black (and it's implied that Lee Jordan is). I can't imagine JKR would leave it ambiguous as to Hermione. And, I strangely enough do agree with whoever mentioned that JKR probably had alot to do with the casting decision for the 3 main characters ... therefore, it's likely she would have said, "Oh, no, Emma Watson is all wrong; Hermione is black" if that were indeed the case. > 3) I've gotten the job of my dreams. I'll be teaching AP English 11 > and Creative Writing at nationally-ranked Cass Technical High School > starting August 2001. I'll miss my fifth graders, but there's always > AOL and visits. Congrats on the new job Ebony! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From s_ings at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 13:59:47 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:59:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair/US changes Message-ID: <20001215135947.81597.qmail@web219.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6982 --- Neil Ward wrote: > IIRC, JKR has been quoted as saying (not sure when > or where) that she > approved the changes from British to American > English because she wanted > every reader (I think she said 'child' but let's not > upset Penny unduly) to > have the same experience of the books and didn't > want them to be stumbling > over unfamiliar words. No one would dispute the > idea of a translation of > the books into French, German or Japanese in the > interests of communicating > the story, but because the British and American > languages are virtually the > same there are obviously only a few words that need > to be changed and some > could argue that they should have been left alone. > With the later books, > the adult readers had become more vocal [all raise > your hands] and the > perceived reader group was older, which is a likely > reason there were fewer > changes in GoF. > > It would be interesting to hear from other > English-speakers (Australians, > New Zealanders, Canadians et al). Do you have > editions with slight changes? > Is Hagrid's hut called a 'batch' in the NZ editions, > for example? Are > sofas called 'lounges' in the Australian editions? > Are there any sofas > mentioned at all? I need to know... :-) > > Neil I believe our Canadian editions are the same as the British ones. They haven't changed things like 'jumper' or Quidditch 'pitch' (the only examples I can think of off-hand). I can't check the British versions they sell here, as they insist on wrapping them all in plastic. > > (Welcome back Ebony and congrats on the job!) I'll add my welcome as well - we missed you! Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 15 14:12:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:12:43 -0000 Subject: Vol-de-mort (was SV: Re: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <91ccms+43c7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91d8sr+sq94@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6983 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > New reply at bottom. > > ---Rita Winston catlady at w... wrote: > In French, vol = flight or vol = theft > This gives us the possibilities: > 1)Flight from Death (he is striving for immortality) > 2)Flight of Death (and where he lands, he kills someone) > 3)Theft from Death (he is stealing immortality/life from death) > 4)Theft of Death (by killing all those people, he is stealing > Death's privilege of ending their lives at the appointed time) > > Does everyone know the word 'overdetermined'? Regardless of what it > sounds like it might mean, it means an effect that has more than one > cause. Maybe the name Voldemort is overdetermined, by having more > than one meaning. Maybe the French and German meanings of Vol were > *both intended by JKR. That accounts for a significant part of the name's resonance - has anyone mentioned the name's association with the word "mold" (through transposition of its primary consonants), modifying the majesty of death with something a bit more decaying. - CMC From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Dec 15 14:59:11 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:59:11 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teaser Poster Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6984 ** COOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!!!! ** Thanks, Ryan. The poster is really nice, better than I expected ** given the quality of the merchandising artwork. And now the ** nitpicking starts -- shouldnt the writing on the envelope be ** in green ** ink? ** ** --Joywitch ** I'm glad someone else noticed that. I was going to say it but thought maybe I was being too nitpicky. Also, I notice the owl has put some giant talon-holes in the letter. I wouldn't think owls would be a good choice for post if all the letters arrive with big holes in them. Hmmm... Otherwise, indeed a very cool poster. I'm glad they're using the owl, that's one of my favorite parts of the wizarding world. Meredith From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Dec 15 14:59:45 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 15 Dec 2000 14:59:45 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <976892385.64945@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6985 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Cast Photos/ Members' Suggestions/dennis_marg.gif Uploaded by : rhodhry at yahoo.no Description : The first image that entered my mind when first encountering Hermione Granger in HP:PS. Margaret Wade from Dennis the Menace. You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Cast+Photos/+Members%27+Suggestions/dennis_marg%2Egif To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, rhodhry at yahoo.no From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 15:53:42 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:53:42 -0000 Subject: The Anagram in Hebrew Message-ID: <91deq6+4s14@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6986 I've peeked into the Israeli edition of the CoS at the bookstore to see the anagram they came up with. I've tried to transcript it (fearing that not everybody on this group is a fluent Hebrew speaker!): tom vandr[e]lo rid[d]l[e] = ani lord vold[e]mort which translates literaly to "I am Lord Voldermort." I think they did a good job on this, since they kept both the Tom and the Riddle and managed to give the middle name a similar outlandish sound. (I wanted to add this to the original thread, but couldn't find it. Sorry.) Naama From jciesla at madbbs.com Fri Dec 15 16:10:39 2000 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:10:39 -0500 Subject: Peter Pettigrew Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001215111039.007a6280@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6987 Hi All, Maybe I'm stretching things a bit here *grins* I just noticed that the name for Canada's International Trade Minister is Pierre Pettigrew.. which would be Peter Pettigrew in English.. correct? I just thought this was funny. I wonder if he's read any of the HP books? I bet he has if he has children *laughs* Julia From heiditandy at bigfoot.com Fri Dec 15 16:40:47 2000 From: heiditandy at bigfoot.com (heidi tandy) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:40:47 -0000 Subject: for obsessive merchandise collectors & very rich people only Message-ID: <91dhif+ejd6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6988 http://pageuser.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/46755406?u=% 3aharrypotter_auction It *is* for charity! From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Dec 15 16:48:40 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 15 Dec 2000 08:48:40 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] for obsessive merchandise collectors & very rich people only Message-ID: <20001215164840.4407.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6989 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 16:51:48 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:51:48 -0000 Subject: MacNair In-Reply-To: <01C066D7.5EE14FC0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91di74+c0n1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6990 > 2. Maybe she doesn't like Thoreau? Wasn't he a bit like the french fellow who's > name I can't spell (hah! Add that to a long list!) ;little Emile That would be Jean-Jacques Rousseau (wouldn't have remebered, but have the book). and I can't > remember what the girls name was, Anyway the point I am attempting to get to is > that Thoreau (and the french fellow) were both people of their time and some of > their ideas can be sadly disappointing to a modern reader. > > storm Naama From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 17:04:17 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:04:17 -0000 Subject: Americanisations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91diuh+rn24@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6991 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > Nlpnt wrote: "It seems they have; in SS, the Americanization even extends to > the Weasleys aclling their mother "Mom" instead of "Mum"" > > They change 'mum' to 'mom'. NOOOOOOOO! > This one of only two Americanisations that annoys me (the other being math > for mathematics or maths). They do *that* in SS, too! In the scene where Hagrid comes to get Harry from the hut-on-the-rock; "I can, you know, do math and stuff!"-Harry What *really* annoyed me about these was, they changed the dialogue to something the characters just wouldn't say! Changing the narration doesn't bother me as much, but changing the dialogue...aargh! Anyway, I bought a Canadian PS at the earliest opportunity, but haven't yet bought non-US editions of the others. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 17:14:52 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:14:52 -0000 Subject: owl mail Message-ID: <91djic+47j5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6992 I have a little question regarding the hunderd owls that swoop into the dining room every morning: Why do all these owls arrive at once? After all, people get owl mail every hour of the day and night anyway. I thought that maybe families that don't have owls of their own would send an owl in the morning from the post office. But that doesn't make sense, because the owls come from all over the place and it would take them different amounts of time to reach Hogwarts. [do you say that - 'differnt amounts of time'? I sometimes have trouble with colloquialisms.] Naama From joym999 at aol.com Fri Dec 15 17:23:38 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:23:38 -0000 Subject: Peter Pettigrew In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001215111039.007a6280@mail.madbbs.com> Message-ID: <91dk2q+7f3d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6993 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Julia L. Ciesla" wrote: > Hi All, > > Maybe I'm stretching things a bit here *grins* I just noticed that the > name for Canada's International Trade Minister is Pierre Pettigrew.. which > would be Peter Pettigrew in English.. correct The esteemed Minister Pettigrew is actually a second cousin-once- removed of Peter Pettigrew. Minister Pettigrew gets very nervous at any mention of his magical English relations, though, so keep it under your hat. Heaven knows, the North American wizard community has enough politcal problems these days. --Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Fri Dec 15 17:28:03 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:28:03 -0000 Subject: for obsessive merchandise collectors & very rich people only In-Reply-To: <91dhif+ejd6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91dkb3+eqo9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6994 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > http://pageuser.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/46755406?u=% > 3aharrypotter_auction > > It *is* for charity! Oh my goodness! They are auctioning off the nameplate from the Hogwarts Express! Whats next, the bedpans from under the students beds? --Joywitch From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 15 18:02:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:02:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Vol-de-mort (was SV: Re: pronunciations References: <91ccms+43c7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3A5CCC.A998201B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 6995 Rita Winston wrote: > Does everyone know the word 'overdetermined'? Regardless of what it > sounds like it might mean, it means an effect that has more than one > cause. Maybe the name Voldemort is overdetermined, by having more > than one meaning. Maybe the French and German meanings of Vol were > *both intended by JKR. A great point, and doubtless true; JKR went for the *effect* of the name, in my opinion. I think she is a genius at picking names that *sound* and *feel* right, that aren't planned as much as we think, but which simply turn out to be perfect. This is akin, for you gamers, to the times when your dice seem to be perfectly aligned, when you just happen to throw low when a curse is operating, or that enchanted blade always gets high hits. It just happens. Part of what makes JKR a great author is that she is plugged in, consciously or no, to that cultural "feel" for what the name should be. This is not to say there's not some thought, but I don't think it's anywhere as deep as we've been delving. Or have I just espoused heresy? Should I expect coal in my stocking? --Amanda From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Dec 15 18:06:22 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:06:22 -0000 Subject: owl mail In-Reply-To: <91djic+47j5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91dmiu+dp6u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6996 naama wrote: > I have a little question regarding the hunderd owls that swoop into > the dining room every morning: Why do all these owls arrive at once? > After all, people get owl mail every hour of the day and night > anyway. > I thought that maybe families that don't have owls of their own would > send an owl in the morning from the post office. But that doesn't > make sense, because the owls come from all over the place and it > would take them different amounts of time to reach Hogwarts. [do you > say that - 'differnt amounts of time'? I sometimes have trouble with > colloquialisms.] > > Naama Perhaps morning is the scheduled time for mail at Hogwarts. It would be rather inconvenient if owls swooped in at any time of day to deliver a package or letter (doubt Snape would tolerate an owl delivery in the middle of Potions) :-) Milz From vderark at bccs.org Fri Dec 15 18:45:35 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:45:35 -0000 Subject: words and over-analyzing /analysing In-Reply-To: <3A3A5CCC.A998201B@texas.net> Message-ID: <91dosf+598l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 6997 > A great point, and doubtless true; JKR went for the *effect* of the name, in > my opinion. I think she is a genius at picking names that *sound* and *feel* > right, that aren't planned as much as we think, but which simply turn out to > be perfect. This is not to > say there's not some thought, but I don't think it's anywhere as deep as > we've been delving. > > Or have I just espoused heresy? Should I expect coal in my stocking? Amanda this is exactly right. I've been trying to figure out how to say it. Names like Malfoy are built on the Mal=bad, sure, but the rest is the cool, slightly nasty sound, I'm sure. Madam Pince is another good one...sounds like "pinch" and recalls pince nez, but that's most likely it. The point is that it's a perfect name for someone who is your stereotypical uptight old fashioned school librarian--it SOUNDS right. Yes, we do over-analyze. But we aren't as bad as the Beacham book -- Muggles suggests muggy, as in damp weather?! Peter Pettigrew's missing finger suggests that he a problem making a point?! ARGH! Puh- LEEEZE! At least we're INTELLIGENTLY over-analyzing. Steve From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Dec 15 19:46:59 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 06:46:59 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: sofas Message-ID: <01C0672C.D2585480.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 6998 My misquote - apologies storm -----Original Message----- From: Simon Biber [SMTP:simon at basilisk2.cjb.net] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 9:59 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: sofas My copy says "Harry retreated to the sofa.", saying nothing about "behind". Was this just your misquote or are they different? Mine is "Printed and bound in Australia by Griffin Press Pty Ltd / Typeset by Dorchester Typesetting / First Australian Edition" Simon. > LOL! I don't believe so, no mysterious chesterfield's indicating eddies in the > space/time continuum, I think the only reference is to the chairs in the > Gryffindor common room but they seem to be single arm chairs ... > > AHA - I was moved to double check the most likely scene in GOF (when the > Wesley's come to pick Harry up to take him to the world cup) and yes there is a > mention of a sofa "Harry retreated to behind the sofa" pg. 43 hardback I > thought that the Aust ed was identical to the English version - perhaps someone > else can comment on this. > > storm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Dec 15 19:57:46 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:57:46 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] words and over-analyzing /analysing Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 6999 ** Amanda this is exactly right. I've been trying to figure out how to ** say it. Names like Malfoy are built on the Mal=bad, sure, but the ** rest is the cool, slightly nasty sound, I'm sure. Madam Pince is ** another good one...sounds like "pinch" and recalls pince nez, but ** that's most likely it. The point is that it's a perfect name for ** someone who is your stereotypical uptight old fashioned school ** librarian--it SOUNDS right. Ok, how's this for over-analyzing? I have an incredible dictionary and it says this for 'foy': Scots: A farewell feast, drink, or gift, as a wedding. [Dutch dialectal fooi, from Middle Dutch foye, journey, from Old French voie, from Latin via, road] Analyze away! Meredith From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Dec 15 19:57:00 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 06:57:00 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair Message-ID: <01C0672D.6901F8A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7000 > 2. Maybe she doesn't like Thoreau? Wasn't he a bit like the french fellow who's > name I can't spell (hah! Add that to a long list!) ;little Emile That would be Jean-Jacques Rousseau (wouldn't have remebered, but have the book). Yes! That's the very fellow I meant. Thank you Naama storm -----Original Message----- From: naama [SMTP:naama_gat at hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 2:52 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair and I can't > remember what the girls name was, Anyway the point I am attempting to get to is > that Thoreau (and the french fellow) were both people of their time and some of > their ideas can be sadly disappointing to a modern reader. > > storm Naama To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Dec 15 19:59:34 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 15 Dec 2000 11:59:34 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] words and over-analyzing /analysing Message-ID: <20001215195934.5207.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7001 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Dec 15 21:05:53 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:05:53 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] words and over-analyzing /analysing References: <91dosf+598l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000b01c066da$d08a4480$922907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7002 > Peter Pettigrew's > missing finger suggests that he a problem making a point?! Or we could bring in Freud and see it as a symbol for the all-famous Penis-envy - and that's why he turned to Voldy, the other Marauders were simply to manly. Over-analyzing? Me? Never!!! LOL Dinah From larrick16 at mediaone.net Fri Dec 15 21:31:05 2000 From: larrick16 at mediaone.net (Laurie ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:31:05 -0000 Subject: HP Book Delay? Message-ID: <91e2ip+k7bb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7003 Hi, my name is Laurie and I'm usually in lurkdom, but I read something today that rather suprised me. In this weeks issue of TIME magazine, there is a little blurb on page 17 (where TIME lists the weeks "winners" and "losers") In the loser column, they have listed Bloomsbury U.K. and the blurb reads: "No new Harry Potter book next year as planned; Muggle publishers left powerless" Has anyone heard anything about the book being delayed? The last I heard, book 5 was due out in November. Did something change? From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 15 21:48:20 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:48:20 -0600 Subject: Merchandise Questions Message-ID: <3A3A91A4.CABD0FB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7004 Hi -- 1. Does anyone know why the cover of the HP 2001 box calender in the Wireless catalogue is different than the one in all the bookstores & calender shops? Is it possible there are 2 versions of the box calender??? 2. Has anyone bought & played the Quidditch box game (not the card game)? Worth it?? Penny From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 23:33:59 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:33:59 -0000 Subject: HP Book Delay? In-Reply-To: <91e2ip+k7bb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91e9p7+ue3r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7005 Laurie wrote: > Hi, my name is Laurie and I'm usually in lurkdom, but I read > something today that rather suprised me. > > In this weeks issue of TIME magazine, there is a little blurb on page > 17 (where TIME lists the weeks "winners" and "losers") In the loser > column, they have listed Bloomsbury U.K. and the blurb reads: "No new > Harry Potter book next year as planned; Muggle publishers left > powerless" > > Has anyone heard anything about the book being delayed? The last I > heard, book 5 was due out in November. Did something change? To quote, or at least paraphrase a quote of Jo's -"It will be done when it's done." I'm not sure what exactly the latest is on this however, I do believe that you are correct in assuming that it will not be next year. I really don't mind waiting another year or two (who am I kidding of course I do) if JKR needs that much time to write it, but I do have a problem with trying to set release dates to coincide with other events, like the movie release. The whole movie release thing got me to wondering just why they would want to release the two at the same time anyway. I don't know about the rest of you but I would stay home and read over going to the movies... Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From sara.ludwig at telia.com Fri Dec 15 23:27:54 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:27:54 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin OT References: <91c74s+hsr1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01cd01c066f9$874352c0$99c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7006 Isn't the Aeneid Greek? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Susan McGee Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 15 december 2000 05:36 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin / Welsh, toad awards, Beacham book, poster and then something OT on rain and travel (i.e. a bit of a rant) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" > wrote: > > > I do think Latin is silly, but if I ever get round to studying a > > language > > > properly then it is high up on the list of possibilities. > > I took four years of Latin. I loved it and never regretted it. I've > always loved words and language and etymology and Latin is the > perfect language to study for that. And of course, now it turns out > that it's the language of magic. Who knew? (My old Latin teacher > never mentioned it.) I just took it to pick up girls. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon I took six years of Latin and I loved it and wish I were not so rusty at it (did everyone know that hic haec hoc can be declaimed to the tune of the Marine Corps Hymn?) The Aeneid, which is insufferably boring in English, is extremely beautiful in Latin. AND, the first time I looked at the Hogwarts crest, I said "I think it says don't annoy a sleeping dragon....?????" It is so lovely to know the etymology of words, or even to know enough that looking them up is a pleasure..... I don't care. I still want the poster. Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Fri Dec 15 23:31:04 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:31:04 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean References: <91cale+58e1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01ce01c066f9$887913a0$99c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7007 Where in the book is Lee Jordan described as black? catrina stupid? European ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Rita Winston Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 15 december 2000 06:36 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > if he's not black, that would place Lee [Jordan] in the white-boy > hemp-wearing stoner-deadhead-reggae crowd, (snip) > i kind of like imagining him with long blond, dirty dreadlocks with > some beads on a hemp rope around his neck under his robes, but > thats just my fancy. That's more or less how I imagined Lee when I read mention of the dreadlocks in Book 1. But Book 4 specifically describes him as black. I have often heard it said that assuming that a character is white when their color is not stated is an act of racism, so I feel properly guilty. On another hand, one of the questions on Ellie's Mary Sue quiz was "Is the character the same race as you?" Isn't that called 'writing about what you know'? eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Fri Dec 15 23:37:55 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:37:55 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors References: <91cdm3+7f86@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01cf01c066f9$89966a80$99c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7008 It may be no error at all. If the copyright rules are still the same as when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Ring then the author must change some words for the American edition!! catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Rita Winston Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 15 december 2000 07:28 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean (was Kashrut / Languages / Merchandise / Flavors --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "~ Leyo ~" wrote: > That's strange, although I only quickly read through the train > journey and sorting ceremony in the English edition, I found no > reference at all to Dean Thomas, let alone to him being black. I > thought it odd that even during the sorting, he is not mentioned! > Harry is sorted into Gryffindor, then Turpin, Lisa is placed in > Ravenclaw. Dean Thomas should have been in between Harry > and Lisa Turpin. Is this different in the American edition? I understand from previous discussion on this list that there is a difference between the US and UK editions in that scene. Someone posted it as "an error in the US edition": the text says now there were only THREE more students to be Sorted, Thomas, Dean, then Turpin, Lisa, then Weasley, Ronald, then Zabini, Blaise -- which is FOUR. But if Dean Thomas was not Sorted at all, that would be an error in the UK edition. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Fri Dec 15 23:40:59 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:40:59 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair References: <91cfus+qpfn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01d001c066f9$8ab23ac0$99c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7009 Then why shouldn't British people know about Walden any less than Swedish or other Europeans? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: machenback at hotmail.com Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 15 december 2000 08:07 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > > > "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" > > Why was a dishonest sadist/bully like Macnair given the > good-connotation name of Walden? I take it that the "good-connotation" is the word's connection with Thoreau? If so, then I think the answer is that "Walden" would have no such association for the majority of UK readers at least and possibly that JKR chose it out of her collection of interesting sounding words without wanting to make any wider reference.The only time I've ever seen Walden mentioned on the UK is in passing references in the Doonesbury comic strip.I wouldn't call Thoreau a widely recognised figure over here either. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Fri Dec 15 23:57:48 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:57:48 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: sofas References: <01C066D9.3C1ACE60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <00a001c0668e$7489f000$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <01d201c066f9$8dd7e4c0$99c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7010 He retreated to the sofa in my British ed. too. 13th printing catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Simon Biber Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 15 december 2000 12:59 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: sofas My copy says "Harry retreated to the sofa.", saying nothing about "behind". Was this just your misquote or are they different? Mine is "Printed and bound in Australia by Griffin Press Pty Ltd / Typeset by Dorchester Typesetting / First Australian Edition" Simon. > LOL! I don't believe so, no mysterious chesterfield's indicating eddies in the > space/time continuum, I think the only reference is to the chairs in the > Gryffindor common room but they seem to be single arm chairs ... > > AHA - I was moved to double check the most likely scene in GOF (when the > Wesley's come to pick Harry up to take him to the world cup) and yes there is a > mention of a sofa "Harry retreated to behind the sofa" pg. 43 hardback I > thought that the Aust ed was identical to the English version - perhaps someone > else can comment on this. > > storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dhill52084 at aol.com Sat Dec 16 01:38:22 2000 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:38:22 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7011 Hi all, on the cover of the 4th book Hermoine is shown as a redhead with a rather reddish complexion. Perhaps Irish or Scottish? The mediteranian idea does not fit with the cover illustration. Don and Penguinie Wizard Penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 02:16:19 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:16:19 -0000 Subject: HP Coloring Books, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91ej9j+nde4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7012 Hi! My Drama classes' holiday play went extremely well today... it's *so* nice to exhale over e-mail for a change... HERMIONE'S ANCESTRY If I were to do a Granger family tree, it would be very Northern European. There would be Scottish, Irish, German, and Anglo-Norman branches... maybe a great-grandmother from Spain and another ancestor from Scandinavia. I think the magical aspects of Granger genealogy would be interesting to contemplate also. *Who* gave Hermione the magical chromosome? (I realize that there was a recent re-hash of the wizarding genetics topic, but I haven't yet had the chance to read these...) My wish-fulfillment theory is that Hermione is a distant descendant of one of the founders. I'm sure you know which one... AN HP COLORING BOOK Responding to Rita's observation: we do paint the world according to the way we see things, I guess. Usually, if I'm reading a book, I don't think much about ethnicity unless that is the topic at hand or there is heavy description (which in the HP books, there isn't). One thing that is funny, though... if a character is described as being "dark" my mind instantly registers them being dark all over, not just skin and eyes. (I inserted myself into many a novel as a child this way, even if the author had no original intention of inserting someone like me. ;)) It wasn't until high school that I realized that I was picturing them "wrong". I can honestly say that I assumed that most of the Harry Potter characters "of color" were white at first, but when I found out they weren't, it didn't jar. I've been able to picture Angelina as being black since GoF (especially since she attended the Yule Ball with Fred, lucky girl), but I'm having a hard time with Dean. I agree that Lee's a toss-up. It's fun thinking up a background for him... right now, about seven different nationalities figure in his family. He may be one of those people who you'd have to ask about his ethnicity. He could very well be blond with blue or grey eyes... but I grew up with plenty of very fair multiracial blondes and redheads who identify as black. I'm pretty sure this phenomenon is particular to America, though. In other countries, they wouldn't have categorized census forms and such nonsense to fill out. My theory for the FAQ that I'm writing is that in the wizarding world, this doesn't matter nearly as much as it seems to matter in the Muggle world. Which is definitely a good thing. WAVES TO Sheryll, Neil, Voicelady and Penny to welcoming me back. Also hellos to Scott, Dee, Catlady Rita, and other regular Sunday chatters. I've missed the posts and the chat--I'll try to make it this Sunday. WELCOME TO Kelly from Michigan--we're neighbors. You'll find several regulars from the Great Lakes State around here. Hope you enjoyed the blizzard this week... I'm still shoveling out! Take care! Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 02:24:39 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:24:39 -0000 Subject: HP Coloring Book (correction) In-Reply-To: <91ej9j+nde4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ejp7+tr4h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7013 Correction: I wrote a minute ago: "One thing that is funny, though... if a character is described as being "dark" my mind instantly registers them being dark all over, not just skin and eyes." Change "skin" to "hair". Otherwise, the sentence makes little sense. Sleepier than I thought, Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 16 02:38:43 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:38:43 -0000 Subject: Mary Sue (was: Hermione In-Reply-To: <001e01c0669a$63522b20$2f2b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91ekjj+ssij@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7014 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > I often write FanFic with a new character involved and I'm always > afraid that I'll create a Mary Sue :-( If Hermione is a Mary Sue, then creating a Mary Sue is not necesasarily to be dreaded. Alicia-Sue wrote a series in which the protagonist is her alter-ego: one as Linda Potter, Harry and Hermione's superpowered daughter. It was still quite enjoyable to read. Was James Bond Ian Fleming's Marty Stu? From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 16 02:42:52 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:42:52 -0000 Subject: words and over-analyzing /analysing In-Reply-To: <91dosf+598l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ekrc+7ke3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7015 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > > Amanda this is exactly right. I've been trying to figure out how to > say it. Names like Malfoy are built on the Mal=bad, sure, but the > rest is the cool, slightly nasty sound, Mal-foy is 'bad faith', which is relevant. IIRC, in GoF a Malcolm Baddock is Sorted into Slytherin, and I feel confident that his name simply includes the syllables Mal and Bad. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 16 02:44:01 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:44:01 -0000 Subject: sofas In-Reply-To: <01C0672C.D2585480.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91ekth+4u8n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7016 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo quoted Simon Biber: > Mine is "Printed and bound in Australia by Griffin Press Pty Ltd / Shouldn't that be GriffinDOR Press? From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 16 02:47:06 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:47:06 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin OT In-Reply-To: <01cd01c066f9$874352c0$99c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <91el3a+tt1p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7017 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Isn't the Aeneid Greek? No. The Aenid was written in Latin by Virgil IIRC during the reign of Augustus, in order to supply Imperial Rome with a worthy origin myth and a pedigree (is that word at all related to Pettigrew?) tracing to Greek gods and Trojan heroes. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 16 02:48:39 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:48:39 -0000 Subject: owl mail In-Reply-To: <91djic+47j5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91el67+st7d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7018 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > different amounts of time to reach Hogwarts. [do you say that -- > 'different amounts of time'? I sometimes have trouble with > colloquialisms.] Yes. Your sentence about taking difference amounts of time didn't sound at all odd. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 16 02:53:59 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:53:59 -0000 Subject: HP Coloring Books, etc. In-Reply-To: <91ej9j+nde4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91elg7+2usm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7019 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > My theory for the FAQ that I'm writing is that in the wizarding > world, this doesn't matter nearly as much as it seems to matter in > the Muggle world. Which is definitely a good thing. They have other things to beat up on each other about. 'Pureblood' or part-Muggle wizards instead of different colors of people. > WAVES TO > Sheryll, Neil, Voicelady and Penny to welcoming me back. Also > hellos to Scott, Dee, Catlady Rita, and other regular Sunday > chatters. I've > missed the posts and the chat--I'll try to make it this Sunday. I am very glad you came back. From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sat Dec 16 02:56:05 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 16 Dec 2000 02:56:05 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <976935365.62896@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7020 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Fanfic by Catlady/Lily02.htm Uploaded by : catlady at wicca.net Description : "Lily Potter and a Small Circle of Friensd', Installment 02, Early Summer 1979 You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/Fanfic+by+Catlady/Lily02%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, catlady at wicca.net From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 03:40:49 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:40:49 -0000 Subject: HP Coloring Books, etc. In-Reply-To: <91elg7+2usm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91eo81+ccsd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7021 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > > My theory for the FAQ that I'm writing is that in the wizarding > > world, this doesn't matter nearly as much as it seems to matter in > > the Muggle world. Which is definitely a good thing. > > They have other things to beat up on each other about. 'Pureblood' or > part-Muggle wizards instead of different colors of people. > Terry Pratchett once wrote of his own universe, "Racism never really took off as a concept on Discworld, because speciesism is so much more interesting. Black and white live side-by- side in perfect harmony, and gang up on green." From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sat Dec 16 03:47:10 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 16 Dec 2000 03:47:10 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <976938430.95696@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7022 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Fanfic by Catlady/Cho's Injury.htm Uploaded by : catlady at wicca.net Description : Takes place during Prisoner of Azkabans You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/Fanfic+by+Catlady/Cho%27s+Injury%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, catlady at wicca.net From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 03:56:21 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:56:21 -0000 Subject: Odd sources for things with possible HP importance Message-ID: <91ep55+rpbe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7023 Ok, I know these don't sound exactly like good HP sources but on second thought they can't be more off than the Beecham (sp?) book... I was looking through a Christmas catalogue the other day and saw a little factoid about elves which stated that at one time all (or most) magical creatures of the sort were called elves. Does that make sense? (I can no longer find the catalogue.) Anyway there was some discussion a while back that the House elves of HP seemed more like brownies, and under the above classification they technically could be. Right? Also in another book, strangely enough one about the breeds of cats, I found a caption that read- "During the Middle Ages, cats suffered terrible persecution at the hands of superstitious people who believed that witches could change themselves into cats and back again at will. So many cats were burned alive that the species was almost extinct in Europe in 1400. These witches are depicted accompanied by a cat, a dog, a mouse and an owl- their 'familiars', or demons in the form of animals. I thought that was interesting, esp. the last sentence...not sure how reliable either of these sources are though. Anyway it's something to chew over. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 04:00:12 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:00:12 -0000 Subject: Around the channels with Harry Potter (humor) Message-ID: <91epcc+hi6q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7024 8:00 PM 13- CNN- Ministry of Magic press conference. Minister Fudge explains that "You-Know-Who" has *not* returned. Followed by rebuttal by Prof.A.Dumbledore, who explains that by this point "You-Know-WHAT" might be more accurate. 18- Animal Planet- On the trail of the Nuclear Elephant with Rubeus "Croc Hunter" Hagrid. 23- Lifetime- "As If By Magic; The J.K. Rowling Story". Screenplay by Rita Skeeter. Starring Rosie O'Donnell. 27- ESPN- Pro Quidditch- Chudley Cannons vs. Salem Roasters (what's an ocean when you can Apparate?) 30- Public Access- Stouffer Street- Brought to you by the letters "K" and "U" and the number "7" (which Stouffer claims to have invented in 1988, 1975 and 1979, respectively). 35- Comedy Central- Trelawney TV- Sybill Trelawney predicts the U.S Presidential election- Al Gore by a clear landslide! (repeat of previous broadcast) 37- Shopping Channel- Blowout sale of "Harry Potter" crystals and Beacham books!!!! Don't miss it!!!! 42- Speedvision- Which Broomstick TV- A-to-B and Quidditch testing of new Nimbus 2002 vs. Firebolt. Also; Firestone twig recall-Are You Safe In The Air? 44- All-Talk Channel- Gilderoy! (cancelled. Replacement show TBA) From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 16 03:14:26 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:14:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fan Sites & Legal Action References: <91aar2+fv1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3ADE12.494C32B3@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7025 nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > > All this would be much easier if there were some sort of regulation > > stating that only ONE url could lead to a given site... > > Yes... that would be good. It would be also useful if there was a > ruleing in a court regarding when a site is a site. I.e. Does a > site need to have a domain name? On the topic of sites, browsers, domains, and obsessions, I thought I'd offer this for your amusement: http://www.1112.net/lastpage.html Cheers, Peg From Ellimist15 at aol.com Sat Dec 16 04:10:05 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:10:05 EST Subject: words and over-analyzing /analysing Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7026 Actually "mal foi" is "bad faith" in French. Ellie Rosenthal http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ Meredith said: << Ok, how's this for over-analyzing? I have an incredible dictionary and it says this for 'foy': Scots: A farewell feast, drink, or gift, as a wedding. [Dutch dialectal fooi, from Middle Dutch foye, journey, from Old French voie, from Latin via, road] Analyze away! >> From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 04:19:37 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:19:37 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner in England Message-ID: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7027 Calling all British HP4GU regulars and others: I need help! When I decided to change the setting of this fic from an unspecified summer date to Christmas, I had no idea what trouble I was in for. What kind of Christmas dinner doesn't include red velvet cake, baked macaroni and cheese, or candied yams? ;) The kind I have to write about, I guess. This is what I have so far on the menu for this particular Weasley Christmas dinner: Prawn Cocktail Christmas Crackers Pheasant or Roast Beef (unsure which) Sage and onion stuffing Brussels sprouts Mashed parsnips Mincemeat pie Christmas pudding Mulled Wine Butterbeer Pumpkin Juice Sorrel (Jamaican Christmas drink; Angelina's contribution--what's the wizarding version of rum? Butterrum? We Muggles *do* have butterscotch...) Loads of questions: 1) Web research reveals several Brits mentioning turkey and cranberry sauce as a holiday tradition. I thought these were American dishes... am I mistaken? 2) Shouldn't another meat choice be offered? In America, the usual thing is to have turkey on Thankgiving and ham on Christmas. Please correct the entree if it's wrong... the men in our family hunt, so I do know a little about pheasant. We also like to have venison on holidays, but again, that may be an Americanism or a Michiganism for all I know. 3) Everything seems to contain alcohol. What do the children drink? (BTW, how can you *not* have egg nog? Or mulled cider?) Do they have to drink everyday pumpkin juice? Or can they have something special... perhaps "sparkling" pumpkin juice? 4) Do Brits abhor fruitcake as much as your average American? 5) Is there a bread served, or do the Christmas crackers serve this purpose? 6) Please explain the Prawn Cocktail, Christmas crackers, and Christmas pudding. The description I have of Christmas crackers is "we pull the crackers and take turns reading the jokes and sharing the toys. Throughout the meal you must wear your paper crown from the crackers." This sounds very nice, but I'm still confused... right now the mental picture I get is of a cross between Cracker Jack and a Burger King kid's meal crown. Help, please. I understand the Christmas pudding is filled with coins and charms, soaked in brandy and flamed. Is this correct? My experience with flaming food is sadly only flaming cheese--we have a large Greek community here. Is the concept similar? I have no idea what a Prawn Cocktail is. I will look it up on my usual recipe search engines, but it's so much nicer when someone can describe it in their own words. 7) Is this a plausible Christmas dinner? More specifically, is it plausible for a grown-up Weasley clan? When would it be properly served? Christmas Eve? Christmas afternoon? Christmas evening? Boxing Day? 8) Is this the correct order that food is served in? My family favors a buffet-style setup, with only dessert being saved for later. Also, I'm thinking some of the sisters-in-law, such as Hermione and Angelina, could help Molly out by bringing covered dishes. Is there a such thing as potluck, or is this considered rude? 9) In general, American tables *groan* on holidays. I've heard that people are a bit more restrained overseas. Should I have 2-3 entrees, 4-6 sides, etc. like many American families do? Thanks in advance for your help... I have several American beta- readers (thanks Penny, Heidi, and Carole!) but it might also be nice to have one of our British members give the chapter a final glance- through. Prevention is the best medicine for "we don't do/say that in England" reviews. :) Best, Ebony From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Dec 16 04:34:33 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:34:33 -0000 Subject: solidarity forever In-Reply-To: <01C066D9.CC930F20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91ercp+cd44@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7028 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > Dumbledore would NEVER do such a thing! He would be condoning > cruelty and > > that's not on. Besides I'm sure he's a Union man at heart > > > Of course he is..when last I saw him, he was singing, when the > union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run, there shall > be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun, but what force on earth > is weaker than the feeble strength of one, but the union makes us > strong...solidarity forever...he was planning the latest campaign > against Voldemort...of course...... > > Susan > > Susan I think you are mocking me! Surely not! > > storm > Surely not. Would someone who knows all the verses to Solidarity Forever (and John Brown's Body)EVER think that my hero Albus Dumbledore would EVER engage in union busting? From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 16 04:52:21 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:52:21 +1100 Subject: ethnicity (OT) References: <91ej9j+nde4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015e01c0671b$fac24ef0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7029 In the Australian census they do ask if you are an Aborigine or Torres Strait islander. Most of the Aboriginal population here are not black, but have a small amount of the blood in them. There are very few full-blood families left (if not none). Even so, they make up an extremely small section of the community compared with the African-Americans in the US. Simon. > I agree that Lee's a toss-up. It's fun thinking up a background for > him... right now, about seven different nationalities figure in his > family. He may be one of those people who you'd have to ask about > his ethnicity. He could very well be blond with blue or grey eyes... > but I grew up with plenty of very fair multiracial blondes and > redheads who identify as black. I'm pretty sure this phenomenon is > particular to America, though. In other countries, they wouldn't > have categorized census forms and such nonsense to fill out. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 16 04:55:02 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:55:02 +1100 Subject: Griffin Press (was: sofas) References: <91ekth+4u8n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <016a01c0671c$5a3bd630$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7030 > > Mine is "Printed and bound in Australia by Griffin Press Pty Ltd / > > Shouldn't that be GriffinDOR Press? Probably, but it existed before HP came along. Simon. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 16 04:57:12 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:57:12 +1100 Subject: Pureblood Wizards (was: HP Coloring Books, etc.) References: <91elg7+2usm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017401c0671c$a84da560$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7031 Yes. To the wizards, the fact that there are different varieties of Muggles is of little significance. > They have other things to beat up on each other about. 'Pureblood' or > part-Muggle wizards instead of different colors of people. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 04:57:56 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:57:56 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner in England In-Reply-To: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91esok+lj50@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7032 Hey Ebony! It's good to have you back! If you searched back messages then you know I instigated this thread all to recently... > 6) Please explain the Prawn Cocktail, Christmas crackers, and > Christmas pudding. The description I have of Christmas crackers > is "we pull the crackers and take turns reading the jokes and sharing > the toys. Throughout the meal you must wear your paper crown from > the crackers." This sounds very nice, but I'm still confused... > right now the mental picture I get is of a cross between Cracker Jack > and a Burger King kid's meal crown. Help, please. This I think is an easy misconception on the part of us Yanks. Until a few years ago I'd never heard of them. Christmas Crackers are in fact not food at all. They are tube like things which resemble logs and when pulled make a cracking or popping sound, thus the name Cracker. They usually contain little gifts or trinkets of some sort. You can find more info as to their effect in Harry Potter in message http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups/6553 > I understand the Christmas pudding is filled with coins and charms, > soaked in brandy and flamed. Is this correct? My experience with > flaming food is sadly only flaming cheese--we have a large Greek > community here. Is the concept similar? I've never had flaming cheese but it sounds good! About Fruitcake- Isn't it called Christmas Cake in the UK? (Or is it called that here too and I didn't realise it?) Also you mentioned the alcohol and whether kids drink it. I'm not to sure about England but in many other parts of Europe I could order wine with every meal. This is decidedly more common in Europe than in the states so I'd say yes but I'm not positive. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Dec 16 05:05:18 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 05:05:18 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin OT In-Reply-To: <01cd01c066f9$874352c0$99c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <91et6e+rqdc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7033 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Isn't the Aeneid Greek? > catrina > Arma virumque cano qui primus ab litoris Troiae (this is probably grossly off since it's from memory), but it says I sing of arms and the man who first came from the shores of Troy...... It's Latin. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 16 06:38:38 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:38:38 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean Message-ID: <01C06787.1676BC60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7034 I don't know that it ever does, (I think) simply this is an assumption made on the basis of his dreads. ( I think). Who knows, maybe the american version does have something to say on the subject storm -----Original Message----- From: Sara Ludwig [SMTP:sara.ludwig at telia.com] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 9:31 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean Where in the book is Lee Jordan described as black? catrina stupid? European ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fran: Rita Winston Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 15 december 2000 06:36 Amne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Caribbean --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > if he's not black, that would place Lee [Jordan] in the white-boy > hemp-wearing stoner-deadhead-reggae crowd, (snip) > i kind of like imagining him with long blond, dirty dreadlocks with > some beads on a hemp rope around his neck under his robes, but > thats just my fancy. That's more or less how I imagined Lee when I read mention of the dreadlocks in Book 1. But Book 4 specifically describes him as black. I have often heard it said that assuming that a character is white when their color is not stated is an act of racism, so I feel properly guilty. On another hand, one of the questions on Ellie's Mary Sue quiz was "Is the character the same race as you?" Isn't that called 'writing about what you know'? eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 16 07:04:03 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:04:03 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnicity (OT and Long) Message-ID: <01C0678A.9AD56D00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7035 Hmm, I don't know that I agree with you Simon, I mean, yes they do ask in the census if you are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander (other wise known as ATSI), and yes, numbers are rising every 4 years (more than can be accounted for with population growth), and yes many ATSI people who live in cities are fair (there is something to do with the a recessive gene so that a very little 'white blood', (ekk!) say one grandparent, can make a person look very white, but I don't know a lot about it). Aboriginal children, when they are born, look white, the pigmentation comes in later. And depending on what part of Australia you are in, will depend on what the indigenous people will look like. (think about the visual differences between Cathy Freeman, Nova Peris-Kneebone and Jai ? for example) There is a great story, "My place" by Sally Morgan, an aboriginal woman whose family had passed as Indian for several generations. So not all aboriginal people look like Truganni (spelling!) We have a long and well honored tradition of rape and sexual abuse in country (and city) areas against ATSI women - leading to the birth of 'half-casts', 'quadroons' etc .... In addition from about 120 years ago until about 20, 30 years ago children who were 'pale skinned' were removed from their families in certain states simply for 'being aboriginal'. These children were placed in the white community with the intention of them being 'assimilated'. Hence the argument about 'full-blood' is really loaded. If anyone is really interested in this area of Australian history the government report "bring them back home" by the Ronald Wilson (I think) is a good place to start. I grew up in a very wealthy area and saw no aboriginal people (except on the tele) until I moved as an adult. When I was younger I thought very few ATSI people must be left. Now I live in a poorer area and see more ATSI people, also I am more attenuated to what different types of ATSI people look like. Long OT response to a very by the way comment. As you can tell this is, and will be, for some time a very hot social issue in Australia. storm -----Original Message----- From: Simon Biber [SMTP:simon at basilisk2.cjb.net] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 2:52 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnicity (OT) In the Australian census they do ask if you are an Aborigine or Torres Strait islander. Most of the Aboriginal population here are not black, but have a small amount of the blood in them. There are very few full-blood families left (if not none). Even so, they make up an extremely small section of the community compared with the African-Americans in the US. Simon. > I agree that Lee's a toss-up. It's fun thinking up a background for > him... right now, about seven different nationalities figure in his > family. He may be one of those people who you'd have to ask about > his ethnicity. He could very well be blond with blue or grey eyes... > but I grew up with plenty of very fair multiracial blondes and > redheads who identify as black. I'm pretty sure this phenomenon is > particular to America, though. In other countries, they wouldn't > have categorized census forms and such nonsense to fill out. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 16 07:27:48 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:27:48 -0600 Subject: Various Message-ID: <3A3B1973.8C8B00EF@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7036 I've been off doing prep for Christmas stuff for the last week. Now, trying to catch up on my email, I spent the evening plowing through about 455 messages in my inbox, and no, that was not an exaggeration. I could try to respond to all the jumping discussions here, but I'm too blitzed to comment after attempting to digest such a huge mass of material--except to say hi and welcome back, Ebony! We've certainly missed you. Welcome to those new people who have introduced themselves this week. (And for those who are also on the PoU list, you sure have been having fun lately, haven't you?) Just wanted to say, I haven't forgotten my 7 Deadly Sins/Heavenly Virtues series (someone mentioned them to Dinah) but I doubt I'll be able to get the next entry done until after Christmas. Cheers, Peg From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 16 07:39:07 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:39:07 +1100 Subject: ethnicity (still very OT) References: <01C0678A.9AD56D00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <021401c06733$46af71f0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7037 I don't disagree with what you say, and I really don't profess to have much knowledge on the subject. I just wonder sometimes about how we handle the issues involved with the ATSI population. For example I don't agree with how previous governments set aside huge areas of remote Australia to be "Aboriginal areas", which we need a permit to enter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Snuffles MacGoo" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnicity (OT and Long) > Hmm, I don't know that I agree with you Simon, I mean, yes they do ask in the > census if you are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander (other wise known as > ATSI), and yes, numbers are rising every 4 years (more than can be accounted > for with population growth), and yes many ATSI people who live in cities are > fair (there is something to do with the a recessive gene so that a very little > 'white blood', (ekk!) say one grandparent, can make a person look very white, > but I don't know a lot about it). Aboriginal children, when they are born, look > white, the pigmentation comes in later. And depending on what part of Australia > you are in, will depend on what the indigenous people will look like. (think > about the visual differences between Cathy Freeman, Nova Peris-Kneebone and Jai > ? for example) There is a great story, "My place" by Sally Morgan, an > aboriginal woman whose family had passed as Indian for several generations. So > not all aboriginal people look like Truganni (spelling!) > > We have a long and well honored tradition of rape and sexual abuse in country > (and city) areas against ATSI women - leading to the birth of 'half-casts', > 'quadroons' etc .... In addition from about 120 years ago until about 20, 30 > years ago children who were 'pale skinned' were removed from their families in > certain states simply for 'being aboriginal'. These children were placed in the > white community with the intention of them being 'assimilated'. Hence the > argument about 'full-blood' is really loaded. > > If anyone is really interested in this area of Australian history the > government report "bring them back home" by the Ronald Wilson (I think) is a > good place to start. > > I grew up in a very wealthy area and saw no aboriginal people (except on the > tele) until I moved as an adult. When I was younger I thought very few ATSI > people must be left. Now I live in a poorer area and see more ATSI people, also > I am more attenuated to what different types of ATSI people look like. > > Long OT response to a very by the way comment. As you can tell this is, and > will be, for some time a very hot social issue in Australia. > > storm From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 16 07:47:41 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:41 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Essays References: <918j5a+lqeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3B1E1D.64943467@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7038 Brian Dorband wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" > wrote: > > Hey Christine, Stephanie and all others who may have hidden > treasures about > > HP!!! > > > > I'm currently collecting all kinds of Essays on HP to show them to > my > > English teacher to proof what one can do with the subject, because I > want to > > write my final study (no idea how that's called in English, sorry > ) about > > the books and I'm afraid she will say that it's too childish. So if > anyone > > who has sweated over some kind of article and is willing to share > his > > insights with me (and my teacher) would send it to my addy I'd be > forever > > greatful! > > > > Dinah > > Dinah, > > You may want to search through our list here for Peg Kerr's "7 Deadly > Sins" essays - they are terrific, as everyone here will attest. You > may want to ask Peg about actually *using* them for anything, as she > *is* the author. They are the most vivid example of the type of essay > that you seek. > > As an aside to Peg - I hope you don't mind this suggestion; I'm sure > that your own humility would preclude you from suggesting your *own* > writings as such exquisite examples, so forgive me if I've gone too > far. > > Brian Thanks, Brian. Dinah (and other new members), if you would like to review the essays I've written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues so far, following are the message numbers: 7 Deadly Sins: Pride: 1553 Envy: 1699 Gluttony: 1878 Lust: 2118 Anger: 2545 Covetousness: 2877 Sloth: 2998 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith: 3468 Hope: 3660 Charity: 4371 Fortitude: 4797 Justice: 5892 Related essays, possibly also of interest: Loyalty: 788 Secrets: 957 Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Dec 16 07:40:19 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:40:19 -0600 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Sorta OT: Re: LOTR Publication history References: <91cdm3+7f86@eGroups.com> <01cf01c066f9$89966a80$99c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <3A3B1C63.C5858611@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7039 Sara Ludwig wrote: > It may be no error at all. If the copyright rules are still the same as when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Ring then the author must change some words for the American edition!! > catrina > A fuller explanation: From Humphrey Carpenter's _Tolkien: A Biography_ here's a little of the history of that: Sales of _The Hobbit_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ continued to rise steadily, but there was no drastic change in the pattern until 1965. Early in that year it was learnt that an American publisher who appeared not to suffer from an excess of scruples was planning to issue an unauthorized paperback edition of the _The Lord of the Rings_, almost certainly without paying royalties to Tolkien. Because of the confused state of American copyright at that time, the publisher doubtless thought that he could do this with impunity. . . The only way to save the situation was for Tolkien's authorized American publishers, Houghton Mifflin, to issue their own paperback as quickly as possible, and this they planned to do, in collaboration with Ballantine Books. But in order to register this new edition as copyright, they would have to make a number of textual changes so that the book was technically "new." I'm not sure if this "confused state of American copyright" so referenced is the same? Heidi? The Humphrey Carpenter Tolkien bio is pretty good, btw, if you're interested. Peg From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 04:37:37 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 05:37:37 +0100 Subject: Accio the !@#$ Laptop Bag! (OT) References: <001e01c0669a$63522b20$2f2b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000001c067aa$94894820$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7040 Just wanted to say hi to all--I'm back home from my adventures in the land of my birth. That is, *I* am, but my laptop bag isn't, nor the new laptop and the copy of GoF it contained. In a moment of insanity, I checked it in, and it never showed up in Zrich. The airline won't pay more than $20 per pound, and my insurance won't pay because the computer was lost, not stolen. (They cover electronics only if they're stolen ... ) And I was so proud of my copy of GoF--it was a first ed., and I was the fourth person to get one here in Zrich ... the binding was shot and there were comments and scribbles in the margines ... it was absolutely *mine.* Oh well ... have they got the new & improved ending out for the UK edition yet? Anyway, I just got my wife's pentium 100 up and running and am attacking the backlog. They're are quite a few interesting threads out there! Like a lamb to the slaughter, but not going quietly, Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From machenback at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 08:41:25 2000 From: machenback at hotmail.com (machenback at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:41:25 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair In-Reply-To: <01d001c066f9$8ab23ac0$99c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <91f9rl+nupf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7041 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Then why shouldn't British people know about Walden any less than Swedish or other Europeans? > catrina I have no idea what European wide recognition of Thoreau and Walden would be. I was merely pointing out that in my experience here in the UK he (and Walden) are not widely recognised names at the moment and I find it unlikely that McNair's first name was meant to be a reference to him.Someone mentioned the English placename Saffron Walden earlier and given the other names that come off maps I think that that's a more likely source. > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: machenback at h... > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 15 december 2000 08:07 > ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" > wrote: > > > > > "Walden Macnair - Disposal of Dangerous Creatures" > > > > Why was a dishonest sadist/bully like Macnair given the > > good-connotation name of Walden? > > I take it that the "good-connotation" is the word's connection with > Thoreau? If so, then I think the answer is that "Walden" would have > no such association for the majority of UK readers at least and > possibly that JKR chose it out of her collection of interesting > sounding words without wanting to make any wider reference.The only > time I've ever seen Walden mentioned on the UK is in passing > references in the Doonesbury comic strip.I wouldn't call Thoreau a > widely recognised figure over here either. > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 21:23:06 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:23:06 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Vol-de-mort (was SV: Re: pronunciations References: <91ccms+43c7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001101c067a6$65693680$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7042 > In French, vol = flight or vol = theft > This gives us the possibilities: > 1)Flight from Death (he is striving for immortality) > 2)Flight of Death (and where he lands, he kills someone) > 3)Theft from Death (he is stealing immortality/life from death) > 4)Theft of Death (by killing all those people, he is stealing > Death's privilege of ending their lives at the appointed time) My apologies if I've missed some relevant posts on this, but what about "Vol" as a derivative of the latinate "volo." I think it's something like *vouloir* in French, *vuolere* in Italian. I believe it could reasonably drop the "u" in a construct word like Voldemort (compare to *volont* and the like). (German has *wollen,* so I suppose the root is indoeuropean--or as German speakers so charmingly put it, "indogermanisch.") Hence, Voldemort is "Desire of Death" or "Death Wish." I have always just assumed that was the derivation. Or, of course, since "vol" is also an abbr. of volume, perhaps Voldemort could be construed as "Volume of Death." Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Dec 16 21:29:59 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:29:59 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Evil Czar (song, or "filk," if you will) References: <91cbgn+h5en@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002901c067a7$58315000$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7043 > V: You'll do what I want > For you my word is law > Fall to one knee > And worship me > And hold my name is awe > `Cause, hey, I'm not > TRIO: Cause, hey, he's not > ALL: From Ravenclaw > > (Nagini begins hissing) > > V: Nagini's now explainin' > Our venom's been uncorked > ALL: `Cause folks have been maintainin' > That every Parseltongue should just get forked ROFL! I love it--you're a talented man, CMC! Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 09:55:50 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:55:50 -0000 Subject: Odd sources for things with possible HP importance In-Reply-To: <91ep55+rpbe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91fe76+td2h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7044 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > Also in another book, strangely enough one about the breeds of cats, > I found a caption that read- > > "During the Middle Ages, cats suffered terrible persecution at the > hands of superstitious people who believed that witches could change > themselves into cats and back again at will. So many cats were burned > alive that the species was almost extinct in Europe in 1400. These > witches are depicted accompanied by a cat, a dog, a mouse and an owl- > their 'familiars', or demons in the form of animals. > > I thought that was interesting, esp. the last sentence...not sure how > reliable either of these sources are though. Anyway it's something to > chew over. > The last one is true. I've read about it also somewhere (I also remember the horrible drawings of hanged cats). As a cheerful addendum to that, think on the outcome - the cat paranoia was one of the reasons that Europe was overrun with rats; which was a major reason for the onslought of the Plague (rats are the carriers of the disease). Naama From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 16 10:26:29 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:26:29 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner in England References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003101c0674a$a86b0280$31088cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7045 Hi Ebony. Good to see you again. > Calling all British HP4GU regulars and others: Waves nasty little red passport in the air. > I need help! At your service. > Loads of questions: > > 1) Web research reveals several Brits mentioning turkey and > cranberry sauce as a holiday tradition. am I mistaken? > We have it too - more's the pity. Goose or Duck is now seen as an alternative. > 2) Shouldn't another meat choice be offered? In America, the usual > thing is to have turkey on Thankgiving and ham on Christmas. Yes, Ham is served too. > > 3) Everything seems to contain alcohol. What do the children > drink? (BTW, how can you *not* have egg nog? Or mulled cider?) Do > they have to drink everyday pumpkin juice? Or can they have > something special... perhaps "sparkling" pumpkin juice? > Some people do have egg nog. Or mulled wine. And don't forget the booze in the Chritmas Pud. > 4) Do Brits abhor fruitcake as much as your average American? I do. But most people have one, whether everyone eats it or not. My Mum has made one and out of 6 of us, it's only her and Dad that eat it. > 5) Is there a bread served, or do the Christmas crackers serve this > purpose? No the Crackers are made of paper and contain little gifts and jokes inside them. > 6) Please explain the Prawn Cocktail, Cold cooked prawns coated in a sauce made of mayonnaise, tomato puree and paprika, served with shredded lettuce. Christmas crackers See above. , and Christmas pudding. The description I have of Christmas crackers > is "we pull the crackers and take turns reading the jokes and sharing > the toys. Throughout the meal you must wear your paper crown from > the crackers." This sounds very nice, but I'm still confused... > right now the mental picture I get is of a cross between Cracker Jack > and a Burger King kid's meal crown. Help, please. Whats a Cracker Jack ? > I understand the Christmas pudding is filled with coins and charms, > soaked in brandy and flamed. Is this correct? My experience with > flaming food is sadly only flaming cheese--we have a large Greek > community here. Is the concept similar? It's a steamed pudding made ( very basic knowledge of ingredients here - only made iot once myself ) from currants, raisins, candied fuits, treacle ( like molasses ), sugar, suet and sugar. Plus booze. It's nice but stodgy. > > 7) Is this a plausible Christmas dinner? More specifically, is it > plausible for a grown-up Weasley clan? > When would it be properly served? Christmas Eve? Christmas > afternoon? Christmas evening? Boxing Day? Christmas Day afternoon. > Also, I'm thinking some of the sisters-in-law, such as Hermione and > Angelina, could help Molly out by bringing covered dishes. Is there > a such thing as potluck, or is this considered rude? No. As veg, we have Roast asnd Mashed Potatoes, Brussels Sprouts ( I'm about the only person in our family who likes them, Parsnips ( roast or boiled ), carrots, etc etc > 9) In general, American tables *groan* on holidays. I've heard that > people are a bit more restrained overseas. Entree = starter ? Just one with a veggie option. Side dishes = veg ? As many as you want ! > Thanks in advance for your help... I have several American beta- > readers (thanks Penny, Heidi, and Carole!) but it might also be nice > to have one of our British members give the chapter a final glance- > through. Prevention is the best medicine for "we don't do/say that > in England" reviews. :) Bung it over here if you like !! Michelle From rhysenn at singnet.com.sg Sat Dec 16 10:30:06 2000 From: rhysenn at singnet.com.sg (Rhysenn) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:30:06 +0800 Subject: Oscar Wilde connection? Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20001216182327.00aca690@singnet.com.sg> No: HPFGUIDX 7046 (crawls out of lurkdom) I just picked up a book from the library -- an Oscar Wilde selected poems compilation. I was leafing through it on the train, and read this particular poem, entitled, "The Sphinx". It's a ten page long poem, so I'm quoting the relevant bits: * A thousand weary centuries are thine while I have hardly seen Some twenty summers cast their green for autumn's gaudy liveries. But you can read the hieroglyphs on the great sandstone obelisks, And you have talked with Basilisks, and you have looked on Hippogriffs. * I'm not very well versed with mythology and such, although I do know that Basilisks are legendary Greek reptiles. Are Hippogriffs such too? Rhysenn From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 16 12:13:54 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:13:54 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious) References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7047 > The kind I have to write about, I guess. This is what I have so far > on the menu for this particular Weasley Christmas dinner: ...[details cut]... This is ambitious of you, Ebony! I know a few people have responded already, but I thought I'd add my two pen'orth. You should also read the recent threads on Christmas dinner, where some of us Brits went into great detail about the average Christmas blowout. Those who are bored with the minutiae of seasonal British habits, should skip the rest of this... :-) - I don't regard prawn cocktail as a Christmas thing, although it is a starter as Michelle (I think) described. On the other hand, I can't think of anything else we would have as a starter... I think the prawns are served with a Marie sauce or Thousand Island dressing (basically a pink/tomato mayonnaise) - and in a dessert glass lined with crispy lettuce and, perhaps, other salad vegetables. It would normally have brown bread and butter triangles on the side. It's nothing special (not that I'd eat it anway). - The idea behind a Christmas cracker is that two people pull it - it makes a bang - and the person who gets the larger half of it gets the contents, which would include a party favour (trinket), a paper hat and a really stupid joke on a slip of paper. The more upmarket ones would contain gold jewellery and such things, but I think the Weasleys would have a bogstandard version (possibly magical variety). It's important to wear the hats, so that everyone looks equally stupid. - Turkey is the traditional Christmas meat here. It's served with stuffing and bread sauce (a sauce made from bread, what did you expect) and/or cranberry sauce. In my family beef was prepared for the Boxing Day (26th) meal or for eating cold for Christmas tea, but I have seen it served as an alternative to the turkey. I guess ham would be good too. - You missed out potatoes!! As Penny pointed out earlier, us Brits eat loads of 'em. Mashed and roasted potatoes would be served. The sprouts are fine and there might be another vegetable, such as peas or carrots. The parsnips would normally be roasted. There might be chipolatas or mini sausages as well, and people often lay bacon strips on the turkey (it's quite a gutbuster, this meal). Bread? If you can squeeze a bit more starch past your lips, I guess so, - Note: Mincemeat pies - use "mince pies" (just to be clear, mincemeat is a mixture of dried fruits and suet). - Christmas pudding is also made from dried fruits: it's a moist fruit/suet sponge pudding mix which is steamed over boiling water for about 4 hours. It would normally contain a small coin (the person who gets that can make a wish) and would be doused in brandy and set alight at the table. It's served with brandy butter, cream, custard, whatever. BTW, I like fruitcake... no comments please. - Alcohol. Children can legally drink alcohol from the age of 5 here, but the British are rather less tolerant of children drinking at the meal table than other European countries. The older children might be given wine, but the younger ones probably not. The Christmas pudding and Christmas cake would be steeped in brandy or sherry, but I think the kids could be allowed that! - The meal would be served on Christmas Day, lunchtime or evening according to habit. The mince pies would probably be eaten during the day. - Potluck? Probably not for a meal like this, but traditions vary from family to family. It's more likely that the relatives would help out with the preparations or bring other things, such as chocolates, nuts, dates or turkish delight... Okay, I've done this Christmas dinner thing to DEATH now. Perhaps I should write a fanfic based entirely on mealtimes and get it out of my system. Good luck Ebony! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Dec 16 13:04:34 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:04:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Odd sources for things with possible HP importance Message-ID: <20001216130434.27835.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7048 --- Scott skrev: > I was looking through a Christmas catalogue the other day and saw a > little factoid about elves which stated that at one time all (or > most) magical creatures of the sort were called elves. Does that make > sense? (I can no longer find the catalogue.) [snip] If you do not go too far back, that is true in Scandinavia. Both Norway and Denmark started with the same tradition, based on the sa-mythology. There were Dwarves and elves, who were both good smiths, there were Jotner, etc., and hosts of underwordly creatures. In Norway they started merging, following the sword-based Christianisation (that was not a good word, was it?) of the country, into the hulder, who were thought of as the hidden children of Adam and Eve (The tradition stated that God paid them a visit while there still in the garden of Eden, and Eve became ashamed that they had so many children, and hid half of them. God then said: 'Those that are hidden will remain hidden.') The hulder-people (hulder means hidden) wore blue clothes, and had cow-tales. They could be disarmed by throwing steel above their heads. If a hulder-firl had appeared at a dance, was dancing with a young man, and he noticed the cowtail, he should not say so directly - she would be very angry, with his life most likely forfeit. If he instead told her 'your braid has come loose', then she would laugh a bit at him, throw him a silver-spoon or another trinket, and disappear. Then the tradition started splitting things up again, and we got, among others, the 'nisse', best translated as gnome, who is a parallell to the house-elf (but certainly Malfoy couldn't have treated a nisse the way he treated Dobby - those are vindictive biengs if not treated well, and little would have been left of the Malfoy home). The nisse is male, short and with a long grey beard (think Tolkien-style Dwarf), and he has a large red headwear. If given new clothing, he will sometimes stop working (so he will not spoil his new clothes). The Norwegian nisse has merged with the Anglo-American FAther Christmas/Santa Claus into the 'julenisse'. Some people to this day leave a large bowl of rice-porridge with butter, cinnamon and sugar for the nisse on Christmas night. In Denmark all underwordly creatures merged into the term elf, rather than hulder. I cannot, however, tell so much about Danish folklore (but we have Danes on this list who can, I am sure). [snipping witches and cats] Norwegian witches were sometimes said to have a socalled 'trollkatt', which, when moving, would take the appearance of a grey ball of yarn rolling at great speed. They would suck the milk out of cows, or the butter out of the cream, and do other nasty stuff, like transferring disease. They were not proper cats, though. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 16 13:03:31 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:03:31 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious) References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <000501c06760$983056c0$e91a063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7049 > > - I don't regard prawn cocktail as a Christmas thing, although it is a > starter as Michelle (I think) described. Yes it was me. It would normally have brown bread > and butter triangles on the side. It's nothing special (not that I'd eat it > anway). Oh, yes I forgot that. The nicest bit, really. It's served with stuffing and bread sauce (a sauce made from bread, what did you expect) and/or cranberry sauce. Oh, hes forgot the bread sauce. Will be tucking into that soon... There might be chipolatas or mini sausages as well, and people often lay bacon strips on the turkey (it's quite a gutbuster, this meal). Which is why I decided to go veggie at Christmas. It's served with brandy butter, cream, custard, whatever. BTW, I like fruitcake... no comments please. Note : Brandy Butter = literally butter and brandy mixed and chilled and put on a hot slice of pud to melt. I've been thinking. We've talked a lot about Brit traditions ( mostly English ) . Could some of our correspondents from other countries give us an idea of where their traditions differ ? Perhaps this could be a basis for a fan fic about a trip to Durmstrang, Beauxbatons or another wizarding school. Michelle ( Trying to keep the thread on topic ) From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 16 13:46:57 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:46:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious) References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A3B7251.7508F9DE@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7050 Hi -- Neil Ward wrote: > - You missed out potatoes!! As Penny pointed out earlier, us Brits > eat > loads of 'em. Mashed and roasted potatoes would be served. Yes, Ebony, *how* could you forget that 2 or 3 varieties of potatoes would be needed? Given my own recent pg-related potato fetish though, I *am* considering making 2 varieties of potatoes for my British Christmas feast tomorrow night. > - Christmas pudding is also made from dried fruits: it's a moist > fruit/suet sponge pudding mix which is steamed over boiling water for > about 4 hours. It would normally contain a small coin (the person who > gets that can make a wish) and would be doused in brandy and set > alight at the table. It's served with brandy butter, cream, custard, > whatever. Ebony, you might be more familiar with this as "plum pudding." My Yankee mother-in-law makes it every Christmas. Prior to knowing her, plum pudding was just something that children in fairy tales fantasized about as far as this Southern girl was concerned. In other words, I don't think it gets made or served much down South, but I'm sure other Southerners will correct me if it was just my family being deficient again. > Okay, I've done this Christmas dinner thing to DEATH now. Perhaps I > should write a fanfic based entirely on mealtimes and get it out of my > system. I was happy for the repeat as .... I'm still planning this menu for tomorrow night. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 16 14:39:25 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:39:25 +1100 Subject: Christmas traditions elsewhere References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> <000501c06760$983056c0$e91a063e@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <003301c0676d$fd5c1360$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7051 > I've been thinking. We've talked a lot about Brit traditions ( mostly > English ) . Could some of our correspondents from other countries give > us an idea of where their traditions differ ? Perhaps this could be a > basis for a fan fic about a trip to Durmstrang, Beauxbatons or another > wizarding school. Ok here goes (Australia). First and foremost, it's Summer. Christmas Day is usually high-thirties, even into the forties (Celcius). Although we have British traditions, some has to be adapted for the weather. Often we eat cold ham instead of hot turkey. We have plenty of salads, including normal salad (including lettuce, tomatoes and avocados), caesar salad (lettuce, cheese, croutons and sometimes olives or anchovies), potato salad (mostly potatoes) and coleslaw (cabbage and carrot). And christmas pudding -- a rich, heavy fruit cake. Yum!!! My mother makes lovely brandy butter, and we have done the flaming a few times. Her brandy butter also has sugar in it, which makes it quite tasty to eat on its own :-) Christmas crackers are called bon-bons here. They are made of brightly coloured paper like wrapping paper, fashioned into a tube about 3 cm diameter and 15 cm long, with each end twisted to hold in the contents. Inside is a long thin strip of paper with gunpowder in the middle which makes a bang as you pull the bon-bon. Also inside is a paper (or thin plastic) crown, a bit of paper with jokes and a little gift. The bon-bons are supplied by the host and one is put on each person's plate when setting the table. I agree that HP crackers would be magical... no gunpowder. Simon. From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Dec 16 14:48:47 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:48:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious), and is now longer and more tedious) Message-ID: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7052 --- Michelle Apostolides skrev: [snip] Anybody desiring to make a fanfic based on the below, get in touch - I have some ideas for a Norwegian/Scandinavian school of magic (assuming that Rowling's recent statement was proof that Durmstrangs has her completely fooled). If they go to a Norwegian school, they might get served lutefisk (dried fish that has soaked for a while in potash lye - sort of a belak yellow jelly-like wobbly substance smelling of dried fish and ammonia), or boiled codfish-heads. The most prevalent theory on how lutefisk came to be, is that a storage house packed with stock-fish burnt down, and then the remains got soaked in a rainstorm. Someone desperately hungry then to their great surprise discovered that it was in fact edible (not that all Norwegians would agree on that subject). Lutefisk is served with boiled potatoes, bacon, mustard, white gravy and Aquavit. I am trying to remember if smalahove is served for Christmas (take half a sheep-head, scorch off the wool, clean out brain, etc., but keep the eyes, boil for 6 hours and eat), but I think it is. More normal Christmas-dishes will include pork-rib, with medister-sausage and medister-patties (medister is a 50/50-blend of minced beef and minced pork), with boiled potatoes, carrots, peas and cauliflower; and poached cod, with boiled potatoes, carrots and Sandefjor-butter; and stick-meat, which is a name for salted and dried ribs of mutton, which are boiled, served with boiled potatoes and mashed swedes. The name stems for the use of birch-sticks being placed in the bottom of the pot to keep the ribs from touching bottom and get burnt. I swear, I did not make up anything of the above! Swedes, or Swedish turnips, are known in the US as rutabagers, I believe. Christmas dinner is served on christmas-eve, at 5pm. At noon, meny have rice-porridge for lunch. A well-known custom is to hide an almond in one of the servings, and whoever finds it will get a treat (normally marsipan shaped as a pig) - its a bit like the silver-coin in the Christmas-pudding. On Christmas-day, there is normally a large buffet-brunch, with leftovers from the day before, and many types of sliced meats and spread, smoked salmon, cured salmon, scrambled eggs (without pepper, but with chives), for smrbrd. On Second-day (Boxing Day), there is fish, if there was meat on Christmas-eve, and vice-versa. See list at teh beginning for possible menus. The next few days (27th-30th Dec.) are known as rom-jul, with a bit more normal dinners. It is now permissible to visit with friends and family. New-years eve is another big one. Turkey in American fashion has becoem more and more the tradition in recent years. At 8pm there is the King's speech. The eve is finished with fireworks (and many people getting maimed, and a number of houses burning down, and with pets being in desperate need of prozac or equivalents) at midnight. At new-years-day there is the new-years ski-jumping-contest (at Garmisch Partenkirchen, I believe), and the new-years concert from the concerthall of the Musik-Verein in Wien. The PM holds his/her speech at 7.30 pm. > I've been thinking. We've talked a lot about Brit traditions ( mostly > English ) . Could some of our correspondents from other countries > give > us an idea of where their traditions differ ? Perhaps this could be a > basis for a fan fic about a trip to Durmstrang, Beauxbatons or > another > wizarding school. > > Michelle > ( Trying to keep the thread on topic ) ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From chrisworm at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 14:59:05 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:59:05 -0000 Subject: Christmas traditions elsewhere In-Reply-To: <003301c0676d$fd5c1360$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <91fvvp+qotb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7053 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > I've been thinking. We've talked a lot about Brit traditions ( mostly > > English ) . Could some of our correspondents from other countries give > > us an idea of where their traditions differ ? Perhaps this could be a > > basis for a fan fic about a trip to Durmstrang, Beauxbatons or another > > wizarding school. > > Ok here goes (Australia). > > First and foremost, it's Summer. Christmas Day is usually high- thirties, > even into the forties (Celcius). > > Although we have British traditions, some has to be adapted for the weather. > Often we eat cold ham instead of hot turkey. We have plenty of salads, > including normal salad (including lettuce, tomatoes and avocados), caesar > salad (lettuce, cheese, croutons and sometimes olives or anchovies), potato > salad (mostly potatoes) and coleslaw (cabbage and carrot). > > And christmas pudding -- a rich, heavy fruit cake. Yum!!! My mother makes > lovely brandy butter, and we have done the flaming a few times. Her brandy > butter also has sugar in it, which makes it quite tasty to eat on its own > :-) > > Christmas crackers are called bon-bons here. They are made of brightly > coloured paper like wrapping paper, fashioned into a tube about 3 cm > diameter and 15 cm long, with each end twisted to hold in the contents. > Inside is a long thin strip of paper with gunpowder in the middle which > makes a bang as you pull the bon-bon. Also inside is a paper (or thin > plastic) crown, a bit of paper with jokes and a little gift. The bon-bons > are supplied by the host and one is put on each person's plate when setting > the table. > > I agree that HP crackers would be magical... no gunpowder. > > Simon. In Denmark Christmas is Christmas Eve. We eat pork-roast or duck, along with white potatoes and gravy, candied potatoes, and different "accessories". For dessert there is rice-porridge or Ris-a- la-mande, which is rice-porridge w. whipped cream and pieces of almonds. (Yum!) In the dessert is stuck one whole almond, and whoever gets that, recieves a small present,- usually something eatable like chokolate or marzipan. After dinner and coffee, everybody dances around the tree and sings carols. Then the presents are opened. In our family we open our presents one person at a time, starting with the youngest (at present that would be my younger brother, who is 23), so that everybody gets a chance to see what was under the tree. After that there is more food (cakes, candy and stuff), more wine, coffee and so on until noone can eat another bite, and it's time to go home. (In the last couple of years we have been home around midnight. We always celebrate Christmas at my grandmothers house and she is 81 now, and not quite the night-owl, she used to be.) The next two - three days are also Christmas-party days, with friends and extended family. Christine - who is really starting to believe that it *will* be Christmas after all! From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 16 15:08:24 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:08:24 +1100 Subject: OT: new year (was: OT: Norwegian Christmas-food) References: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005e01c06772$09dac9c0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7054 > New-years eve is another big one. Turkey in American fashion has > become more and more the tradition in recent years. At 8pm there is > the King's speech. The eve is finished with fireworks (and many people > getting maimed, and a number of houses burning down, and with pets > being in desperate need of Prozac or equivalents) at midnight. This new year's eve is the end of the 2000th year, the 200th decade, the 20th century and the 2nd millennium. This new year is the start of the 2001st year, the 201st decade, the 21st century and the 3rd millennium. This year was the last, not the first in the millennium. Please celebrate the new millennium this time. (Only if you hold AD/CE to be important. I don't mean to intrude on those who don't use the western calendar) Simon. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 15:15:59 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:15:59 -0000 Subject: Essays In-Reply-To: <3A3B1E1D.64943467@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <91g0vf+gv55@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7055 Hi, Peg! Do you think it might be a good idea to archive your essays in the Files section? I know you might not have the time, but this way, members could read all of them at a glance. --Ebony (who will *finally* have time to read her copy of Wild Swans over Christmas--yes!) > Thanks, Brian. Dinah (and other new members), if you would like to review > the essays I've written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues > so far, following are the message numbers: > > 7 Deadly Sins: > Pride: 1553 > Envy: 1699 > Gluttony: 1878 > Lust: 2118 > Anger: 2545 > Covetousness: 2877 > Sloth: 2998 > > 7 Heavenly Virtues: > Faith: 3468 > Hope: 3660 > Charity: 4371 > Fortitude: 4797 > Justice: 5892 > > Related essays, possibly also of interest: > > Loyalty: 788 > Secrets: 957 > Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 16 15:31:40 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:31:40 +0100 Subject: SV: SV: [HPforGrownups] Sorta OT: Re: LOTR Publication history References: <91cdm3+7f86@eGroups.com> <01cf01c066f9$89966a80$99c016c2@pnxpg> <3A3B1C63.C5858611@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <00b401c06775$4a0eeaa0$b1c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7056 Thanks Peg that was the book I read at the time. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Peg Kerr Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 16 december 2000 08:40 ?mne: Re: SV: [HPforGrownups] Sorta OT: Re: LOTR Publication history Sara Ludwig wrote: > It may be no error at all. If the copyright rules are still the same as when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Ring then the author must change some words for the American edition!! > catrina > A fuller explanation: From Humphrey Carpenter's _Tolkien: A Biography_ here's a little of the history of that: Sales of _The Hobbit_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ continued to rise steadily, but there was no drastic change in the pattern until 1965. Early in that year it was learnt that an American publisher who appeared not to suffer from an excess of scruples was planning to issue an unauthorized paperback edition of the _The Lord of the Rings_, almost certainly without paying royalties to Tolkien. Because of the confused state of American copyright at that time, the publisher doubtless thought that he could do this with impunity. . . The only way to save the situation was for Tolkien's authorized American publishers, Houghton Mifflin, to issue their own paperback as quickly as possible, and this they planned to do, in collaboration with Ballantine Books. But in order to register this new edition as copyright, they would have to make a number of textual changes so that the book was technically "new." I'm not sure if this "confused state of American copyright" so referenced is the same? Heidi? The Humphrey Carpenter Tolkien bio is pretty good, btw, if you're interested. Peg eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 16 16:06:30 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:06:30 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More from the Christmas crackpot... References: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c0677a$3d330a00$c43670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7057 Christian said: <<>> Similarly, British people have to listen to the noble and glorious Queen blathering on at 3pm on Christmas Day. One year, when the Royal Family had had a particularly crap year - with divorce, death and smouldering buildings on the calendar - Elizabeth called it their "annus horribilis" (Queentalk for "f***ing nightmare!!!!"). Incidentally, the British Royal Family, being of German extraction (apart from Prince Philip, who is "of Greece"), open their presents in the European tradition, on Christmas Eve. The loyal subjects have the patience to wait until the next morning. I loved hearing about Christmas in other countries, especially the Scandinavian countries. Christian makes it sound like the Norwegians eat entrails as a treat, but I'm sure it's more magical than that! The rice porridge sounds nice (is that like rice pudding - creamed milk and pudding rice, often served with nutmeg?) . Factual aside: the massive Christmas tree in London's Trafalgar Square is an annual gift from Norway. This warms the cockles of my heart. Fictional aside: I've heard that Father Christmas lives in Norway: he doubles up as Durmstrang's gamekeeper and lives in a wooden hut in the grounds. Every year the Hauselven assist him in wrapping Pokmon and socks for the entire planet. The rest we know... Meanwhile ....back inside JK Rowling's head: The HP books don't seem to make so much of the New Year, which seems strange given Hogwarts location in Scotland, the home of Hogmany. I guess the New Year is more a time for adult celebration, whereas Christmas holds the magic for children. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 16:30:10 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:30:10 -0000 Subject: Christmas traditions elsewhere In-Reply-To: <91fvvp+qotb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91g5ai+oknc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7058 Thanks to all who chimed in--I'm sorry that I didn't search the archives before posting! It all sounds very interesting. I can't believe I forgot potatoes, but I didn't see any on all of the menus I looked at. I'll change the pheasant to turkey... and I feel *very* embarrassed about the Christmas crackers. I didn't know they're not food! Michelle wrote: > I've been thinking. We've talked a lot about Brit traditions ( mostly English ) . Could some of our correspondents from other countries give us an idea of where their traditions differ ? Perhaps this could be a basis for a fan fic about a trip to Durmstrang, Beauxbatons or another wizarding school. The United States is so large and diverse, until I'm not sure that there's a such thing as a traditional American holiday menu. I think plum pudding's served in New England and thereabouts... I've never heard of it here in the Midwest. As many of you know, I'm from a Southern African-American family (originally from Florida), but our branch has lived in Michigan for almost a century. When I attended college in Florida (Floridian culture seems to be a weird combination of the Deep South, New York, and the Caribbean), I learned just how Midwestern I was. So our menu combines Southern "soul food" dishes with Midwestern ones. Thanksgiving and Christmas vary only according to entree. On Thanksgiving we have turkey and on Christmas we have ham. Until my father died, on New Year's we had chitterlings, but I'll talk about that later. We have the same traditions that I guess most American families do. We eat, drink, enjoy each other's company, watch sports, open gifts, sing carols, and attend religious services. The main variance I've observed is in what we eat. SOUL FOOD This is a typical soul food holiday menu, which can be eaten on special occasions year-round. I've eaten Sunday and holiday dinners with black families from every part of the country, and almost all of these items were on every table: Turkey (smoked or fried) or ham Barbecue (summer only in Michigan, year-round in Florida) Fried catfish Baked macaroni and cheese Candied Yams Greens (turnip, collard, or mustard) Sweet Potato Pie Peach Cobbler Rolls or Biscuits or Cornbread Punch Some notes are in order: ***The barbecue could be absolutely anything. Ribs, chicken, pork steaks, neck bones... you name it. It all depends on the particular family's preference. ***Michigan is a hunter's paradise. My uncles, grandfather, and dad all hunt/hunted every other year (it used to be every year). My great-aunt makes a heavenly pheasant and my mother's youngest sister makes great venison Swedish meatballs with gravy. She also makes roast venison. I'm almost certain this is not typical soul food. We also have 7-up cake and pumpkin pie--my Southern friends thought we were so weird for having it, because most soul food aficionados I've met think pumpkin pie is less than appetizing. ***Most families supplement the basic menu with regional specialities that are eaten regardless of ethnicity. For instance, my Louisiana friends make gumbo and jambalaya in addition to the above. My Chicago and St. Louis friends like egg pie. And red velvet cake is very popular in the Deep South now... that's where I learned to make it. I've determined that it can't be a very old Southern recipe, since *no one* I've met yet in Detroit knows how to make it and we brought most of our recipes with us when we migrated North. ***Usually there'll be something else besides the greens, like tossed salad or peas and carrots. This is just because soul food is extremely heavy and you need something else green on the table. ***Almost all black families have one or more members that are not African-American. (It's estimated that 75% to 90% of African Americans are at least 1/8 "something else"--which is why I always say that culture is much more important than race.) My cousin's wife is Puerto Rican, so we have paella whenever they come. My best friend's stepmom is Vietnamese, so they have this *interesting* fish sauce. And more often than not, there's that West Indian cousin or in-law who brings the curry goat or rice and peas or griot. ***Rarely will there be an African dish on the tables. I've eaten African food from several countries, and it goes to show that African- American culture is more Southeastern American than African. At least in my opinion. ***As a rule, African food is loads healthier than soul food. Soul food is the #1 reason for the astronomically higher rate of blacks in America plagued with chronic illness such as hypertension, obesity, high cholesterol, and heart disease. Another problem is that we eat soul food a lot more than I'd guess other cultures eat their holiday food--some families eat this way every Sunday or several days a week. My father died of a heart attack when he was only 51 years old... due to eating and drinking habits. I'm glad there is a movement to cook healthier--using turkey instead of ham hocks to cook greens, for instance. However, this has been largely unsuccessful. The idea is that using low-fat or lighter products "ruins the taste". KWANZAA Kwanzaa is still not very widely celebrated by black families. That's because it's only a generation old, and invented by professor Maulana Karenga to emphasize African heritage and celebrate virtues both present and needed in black American culture. Our family celebrated it until my father died in 1998. It spans the seven days between Christmas and New Year's. There are seven days, and each day incorporates a principle of the Nguzo Saba: December 26 -- Umoja -- Unity December 27 -- Kujichagulia -- Self Determination December 28 -- Ujima -- Collective Work and Responsibility December 29 -- Ujamaa -- Cooperative Economics December 30 -- Nia -- Purpose December 31 -- Kuumba -- Creativity January 1 -- Imani -- Faith On each evening, you gather with your family, light a candle on the bandera (they're red, black and green), do readings and discuss the principles. Some non-religious families pour libations to the ancestors; we did this until 1995 when we converted to Christianity. Now we just speak about our ancestors. On December 31, there is the feast or karamu. You exchange small gifts (zawadi) that are handmade and ring in the New Year. Very religious African-Americans, whether Christian or Muslim, *do not* celebrate this secular holiday and have pretty strong arguments against it. I don't have an opinion one way or the other. But I *do* know how to celebrate it and have educated hundreds of people (many of them children) on how it is properly carried out. NEW YEAR'S DAY New Year's dinner is a little different. On New Year's, you eat black-eyed peas and rice, cornbread, and chitterlings (pork intestines). These have been considered good luck foods since slavery. Analytical African-Americans have also pointed out that this is all slaves, as a rule, had to eat. So I guess it's subconsciously remembering a hard time in our history. Some families sweep and toss salt around, but we don't. Those are also good luck traditions. That's it for holidays. Where this would fit in for an American holiday celebration at a wizarding school, I don't know. It should be included in some small part, though. I subscribe to Rita's suppression/Puritan theory and think that the American wizarding tradition is much different than the British. As a matter of fact, I hold that Britain is to the wizarding world what America is to the Muggle--the leader, whether we like it or not. Back to proofing this fic-- Ebony From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 16 16:31:16 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:31:16 -0000 Subject: Traditional Christmas Recipies Message-ID: <005801c0677d$9e0255e0$8e1b063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7059 http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/christmas_meal_planner_v1.shtml#trad If you go to this link, you'll find all you need to know for a traditional English Christmas meal. Michelle From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 16 16:28:52 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:28:52 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] More from the Christmas crackpot... References: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c0677a$3d330a00$c43670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <017301c0677e$57ec0640$b1c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7060 Father Christmas is believed to live in Rovaniemi, Finland! ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Neil Ward Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 16 december 2000 17:06 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] More from the Christmas crackpot... Christian said: <<>> Similarly, British people have to listen to the noble and glorious Queen blathering on at 3pm on Christmas Day. One year, when the Royal Family had had a particularly crap year - with divorce, death and smouldering buildings on the calendar - Elizabeth called it their "annus horribilis" (Queentalk for "f***ing nightmare!!!!"). Incidentally, the British Royal Family, being of German extraction (apart from Prince Philip, who is "of Greece"), open their presents in the European tradition, on Christmas Eve. The loyal subjects have the patience to wait until the next morning. I loved hearing about Christmas in other countries, especially the Scandinavian countries. Christian makes it sound like the Norwegians eat entrails as a treat, but I'm sure it's more magical than that! The rice porridge sounds nice (is that like rice pudding - creamed milk and pudding rice, often served with nutmeg?) . Factual aside: the massive Christmas tree in London's Trafalgar Square is an annual gift from Norway. This warms the cockles of my heart. Fictional aside: I've heard that Father Christmas lives in Norway: he doubles up as Durmstrang's gamekeeper and lives in a wooden hut in the grounds. Every year the Hauselven assist him in wrapping Pok?mon and socks for the entire planet. The rest we know... Meanwhile ....back inside JK Rowling's head: The HP books don't seem to make so much of the New Year, which seems strange given Hogwarts location in Scotland, the home of Hogmany. I guess the New Year is more a time for adult celebration, whereas Christmas holds the magic for children. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 16 17:19:31 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:19:31 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Christmas OT References: <91g0vf+gv55@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01a901c06784$7c665880$b1c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7061 A public Swedish Christmas Dinner (julbord) could look like this: v?rtbr?d(brewer's wortscented bread) with or without dopp i grytan(souplike stuff made from the ham's fat and water - you are supposed to dip your bread in it).. a starter other kinds of bread like hard bread(everywhere else called kn?ckebr?d, eh), French white bread Lutfisk (Christian had the reciepe, I don't repeat it) julskinka(ham prepared in a special way, cooked , glaced with mustard) Janssons frestelse (anshovy and sliced potatoes baked together) salmon cooked red cabbage cooked potatoes sometimes fried potatoes sill (herring pickled in various tastes e.g. tomato, mustard, even garlic) meatballs egghalves sallads sweet mustard and gr?ddfil(fermented sour cream) as a dip rice ala mande as a dessert crackers(edible kind) jul?l(Christmas beer) Julmust(dark Christmas lemonade like drink) other kinds of soft drinks soda water just water (from the tap - as every day) sup(snapps) You take as much or as little as you want of what you want and sit down an chat and eat until morning at about 4 or 5 when its time to go to Julottan, a special early sevice in church... This is not really my 'religion'. Hence the public variation. Have a Merry Christmas catrina almost veg. but turkey eating cheater [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wren at thejunkbox.com Sat Dec 16 18:39:25 2000 From: wren at thejunkbox.com (wren lanier) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:39:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) In-Reply-To: <003301c0676d$fd5c1360$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7062 not to continue the american-bashing here (since i am one, after all), but can any of you other Americans imagine having party-favors with GUNPOWDER in them?!?!? i'm sure all manner of federal agencies would want to regulate them, and the NRA would declare them Constitutionally protected under the "pursuit of happiness" clause and fight regulation efforts tooth and nail, all the while sadistic little sociopaths are emptying the contents into homemade pipe-bombs and downloading nefarious plans from the Internet. sigh. how can we deign to "police" the world when we can't even be trusted with Christmas crackers!!! seriously though, what if Wal-Mart started selling exploding bon-bons tomorrow? i'm sure rosie o' donnell would have a seecial expose about the dangers to children (i assume, of course, that these things are safe since they are so popular in other countries. that ever stopped american hysteria before though), and congressmen would demand hearings on the issue, and we'd have a whole new mess to suffer through on the cable news channels. sometimes i hate being an american. there's no fun in it. wren > > Christmas crackers are called bon-bons here. (snip) > Inside is a long thin strip of paper with gunpowder in the middle which > makes a bang as you pull the bon-bon. From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 16 20:25:07 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:25:07 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Christmas OT References: <91g0vf+gv55@eGroups.com> <01a901c06784$7c665880$b1c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <000701c0679e$6b2bcc20$2ac016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7063 OOps, I forgot the dessert of the dessert, coffee with pepparkaka( gingerbread biscuits) and other cakes and satsumas. If you have Christmas Dinner at home be prepared to eat left overs for at least 3 weeks... catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Sara Ludwig Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 16 december 2000 18:19 ?mne: SV: [HPforGrownups] Christmas OT A public Swedish Christmas Dinner (julbord) could look like this: v?rtbr?d(brewer's wortscented bread) with or without dopp i grytan(souplike stuff made from the ham's fat and water - you are supposed to dip your bread in it).. a starter other kinds of bread like hard bread(everywhere else called kn?ckebr?d, eh), French white bread Lutfisk (Christian had the reciepe, I don't repeat it) julskinka(ham prepared in a special way, cooked , glaced with mustard) Janssons frestelse (anshovy and sliced potatoes baked together) salmon cooked red cabbage cooked potatoes sometimes fried potatoes sill (herring pickled in various tastes e.g. tomato, mustard, even garlic) meatballs egghalves sallads sweet mustard and gr?ddfil(fermented sour cream) as a dip rice ala mande as a dessert crackers(edible kind) jul?l(Christmas beer) Julmust(dark Christmas lemonade like drink) other kinds of soft drinks soda water just water (from the tap - as every day) sup(snapps) You take as much or as little as you want of what you want and sit down an chat and eat until morning at about 4 or 5 when its time to go to Julottan, a special early sevice in church... This is not really my 'religion'. Hence the public variation. Have a Merry Christmas catrina almost veg. but turkey eating cheater [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 20:49:08 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:49:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: sMom not Mum Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7064 I have all of the American books, and everyone calles their mom "Mum" I dont think they would go as far as to change THAT! Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Sat Dec 16 20:53:57 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:53:57 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 322 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7065 In a message dated 12/13/00 5:48:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << I've finally got round to tidying up my flat... so thought I'd post a link to my Harry Potter merchandise collection. http://www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/nickHP.jpg Anyone else got a collection like this... or am I the only mad one around here? >> No, not by a long shot are you the only one. You're just the only one smart enough to do this, and post it to inspire the rest of us! I'm going to gather mine up now.What a great way to "waste" ( according to SOME people) part of a rainy cold Saturday. ~ Circe ( back to lurking & catching up) From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 16 20:55:26 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:55:26 -0000 Subject: 26th Dec - HPPS Broadcast Message-ID: <001301c067a2$86128f20$64987ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7066 Hi all Just to let you all know... I've put the schedule from Radio Times on to a webpage, along with the relevant link to the webcast. http://www.broomsticks.org Remember that URL... and you too can listen to Stephen Fry's broadcast on 26th December. All the fun starts at Midday (GMT). Pity I'm having to go to my parents for Christmas, won't be able to listen much myself. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 16 21:01:45 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:01:45 -0000 Subject: Merchandise Madness Message-ID: <001a01c067a3$671da4a0$64987ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7067 Circe wrote: >No, not by a long shot are you the only one. You're just the only one smart >enough to do this, and post it to inspire the rest of us! I'm going to gather >mine up now.What a great way to "waste" ( according to SOME people) part of a >rainy cold Saturday. It's great fun when you start emptying the boxes and displaying all the 'things' in one place. Since the photos (taken only a few days ago) I've added a copy of the Radio Times - think I will have to find a plastic bag to wrap it in - so it does not get too damanged. Still awaiting a shipment from WBSTORE. When (if) it arrives, will be able to expand my collection. Shame most of the stuff is still not available here in the UK. Anyone found anything interesting in the UK yet - so far, all I've found that's different from the US stuff is the Calendar, and of course the Ford Anglia mug I located (plus books and tapes/cd's of course). Talking of which - Radio Times has an offer on the Tapes and CD's of Stephen Fry's recordings of Books 1 to 3. I wonder if it is really cheaper though than buying from someone such as WHSmith Online or Amazon. Nick From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 16 21:26:27 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:26:27 -0600 Subject: Mom not Mum References: Message-ID: <3A3BDE03.D6D38551@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7068 Hi -- Stephanie Becvar wrote: > I have all of the American books, and everyone calles their mom "Mum" > I > dont think they would go as far as to change THAT! > I don't know which American editions you have Stephanie, but mine all say Mom, not Mum. So, yeah, they *did* change even that! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Dec 16 21:22:35 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:22:35 -0000 Subject: Oscar Wilde connection? Message-ID: <004301c067a6$52b1f400$64987ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7069 >I'm not very well versed with mythology and such, although I do know that >Basilisks are legendary Greek reptiles. Are Hippogriffs such too? Not sure... what I have found is this: "the Hippogriff is a fantastical creature that works in group as opposed to being solitary; like say dragons or griffons." Source: http://www.jutsu.freeserve.co.uk/griffsq.htm Also... a picture of a Hippogriff: http://www.spiritgames.co.uk/grimjpg/86.jpg (from a Game called Grim Reaper) Hippogriff Hoof is used in Alchemy - http://www.prwild.demon.co.uk/Shops/alcneeds.html And another picture: http://www.harlequin-miniatures.com/h7120.html The Hippogriff seems to be a popular Monster in fantasy games. Not sure if that helps or not. Nick. From morine10 at aol.com Sat Dec 16 21:33:01 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:33:01 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7070 In a message dated 12/16/00 1:43:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, wren at thejunkbox.com writes: > seriously though, what if Wal-Mart started selling exploding bon-bons > tomorrow? i'm sure rosie o' donnell would have a seecial expose about the > dangers to children (i assume, of course, that these things are safe since > they are so popular in other countries. that ever stopped american hysteria > before though), and congressmen would demand hearings on the issue, and we'd > have a whole new mess to suffer through on the cable news channels. > > sometimes i hate being an american. there's no fun in it. > > wren > Isn't it the truth? Seriously, don't they sell cap guns anymore? Anyone remember those? You loaded them with little strips of paper that had tiny dots of powder on them. When you shot them the mad a "bang". That's all that's in those crackers. You couldn't shoot your eye out if you tried. -Mo An American, who knows what crackers are because her mother used to order them out of a catalog when we were kids. "I want an official Red Rider carbine action 200 shot range model air rifle." -Ralphie, A Christmas Story [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 21:36:30 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:36:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7071 WHERE on the book does it have Hermione? On my GoF(American) book I have Harry, Cedric, Krum, and Fleur....I think you meant the THIRD book....PoA Stephanie >Hi all, >on the cover of the 4th book Hermoine is shown as a redhead with a rather >reddish complexion. Perhaps Irish or Scottish? The mediteranian idea does >not fit with the cover illustration. >Don and Penguinie Wizard Penguin > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 16 21:54:14 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:54:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry References: Message-ID: <3A3BE486.199D261@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7072 Hi -- I don't think Hermione's ancestry can be discerned from the cover illustrations on the US editions in any case. She's clearly not described in the books as a redhead -- brown hair & brown eyes. When I first looked at the PoA cover, I thought it was Ginny on the cover with that long red hair. Penny (who really wishes the artists for the books & WB would actually *read* the books!) Stephanie Becvar wrote: > WHERE on the book does it have Hermione? On my GoF(American) book I > have > Harry, Cedric, Krum, and Fleur....I think you meant the THIRD > book....PoA > > Stephanie > > > >Hi all, > >on the cover of the 4th book Hermoine is shown as a redhead with a > rather > >reddish complexion. Perhaps Irish or Scottish? The mediteranian idea > does > >not fit with the cover illustration. > >Don and Penguinie Wizard Penguin > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > eGroups Sponsor [Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here!] Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 16 22:03:54 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:03:54 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnicity (still very OT) Message-ID: <01C06808.506E3200.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7073 I guess I don't have a lot of knowledge either but 1. those areas are pretty out of the way - its' not like its an inconvenience in daily life for the majority of people 2. you would ask for permission or to be invited on to somebody's property and I think its analogous that that 3. I think it's a way of keeping grog sellers and other 'undesirables' out, or at least giving the communities away to tell them to go away. I'm happy to keep this thread going but - unless the rest of the list is interested in the politics of race relations in Australia - maybe e-mail me off list? storm -----Original Message----- From: Simon Biber [SMTP:simon at basilisk2.cjb.net] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:39 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnicity (still very OT) I don't disagree with what you say, and I really don't profess to have much knowledge on the subject. I just wonder sometimes about how we handle the issues involved with the ATSI population. For example I don't agree with how previous governments set aside huge areas of remote Australia to be "Aboriginal areas", which we need a permit to enter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Snuffles MacGoo" From chrisgoetz at home.com Sat Dec 16 21:59:44 2000 From: chrisgoetz at home.com (chrisgoetz at home.com) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:59:44 -0000 Subject: Merchandise Questions In-Reply-To: <3A3A91A4.CABD0FB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91gokg+i11o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7074 I haven't ordered the calendar from the Wireless catalogue so don't know this for sure, but very often printers release a dummy or prototype of what they *think* the product will look like, so that a picture can be used in advance promotion. Nine times out of ten they look the same in finished form but occasionally there are changes. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > 1. Does anyone know why the cover of the HP 2001 box calender in the > Wireless catalogue is different than the one in all the bookstores & > calender shops? Is it possible there are 2 versions of the box > calender??? From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 22:17:29 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:17:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mom not Mum Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7075 >I don't know which American editions you have Stephanie, but mine all >say Mom, not Mum. So, yeah, they *did* change even that! I promise....Bc in the scene in CoS where they get back from the car and Mrs. Weasley is telling the boys to de knome the garder...fred says "Mum FANCIES him" And in PoA....Harry always refers to hearing his mother screaming as "I hear my MUM screaming..." Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 00:47:03 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:47:03 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: Message-ID: <00d401c067c2$e061b530$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7076 It's not very _much_ gunpowder, certainly nothing too dangerous. Surely you have other kids stuff with gunpowder? Like party poppers (pull the string and shoot streamers everywhere), or cap guns? Simon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "wren lanier" To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) > not to continue the american-bashing here (since i am one, after all), but > can any of you other Americans imagine having party-favors with GUNPOWDER in > them?!?!? > > i'm sure all manner of federal agencies would want to regulate them, and the > NRA would declare them Constitutionally protected under the "pursuit of > happiness" clause and fight regulation efforts tooth and nail, all the while > sadistic little sociopaths are emptying the contents into homemade > pipe-bombs and downloading nefarious plans from the Internet. > > sigh. how can we deign to "police" the world when we can't even be trusted > with Christmas crackers!!! > > seriously though, what if Wal-Mart started selling exploding bon-bons > tomorrow? i'm sure rosie o' donnell would have a seecial expose about the > dangers to children (i assume, of course, that these things are safe since > they are so popular in other countries. that ever stopped american hysteria > before though), and congressmen would demand hearings on the issue, and we'd > have a whole new mess to suffer through on the cable news channels. > > sometimes i hate being an american. there's no fun in it. > > wren > From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 01:33:48 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:33:48 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin OT In-Reply-To: <91et6e+rqdc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91h55s+708j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7077 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" > wrote: > > Isn't the Aeneid Greek? > > catrina > > > > Arma virumque cano qui primus ab litoris Troiae (this is probably > grossly off since it's from memory), but it says I sing of arms and > the man who first came from the shores of Troy...... > > It's Latin. Troy? It's Latin, but takes place in upstate New York? ~;) From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 01:49:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:49:21 -0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic)] In-Reply-To: <3A39331A.1F75879@texas.net> Message-ID: <91h631+v05p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7078 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > This is another plummy comment on the HP heraldry, from my heraldry > group. > -------- Original Message -------- > Reply-To: Discussions of SCA Heraldry > Bjarni wrote: > > > Not to mention the fact that the "crests" depicted for the four > > houses are completely different from those emblazoned on my > > Hogwarts coffee cup Is this another complaint against the vile and loathsome artist of the wall calendar? > > (designed, I believe, by the Hallmark College of Heralds). No, by Bloomsbury College of Heralds. Oh, Julie already replied that. > (Though in either case I cannot fathom how anyone could pass up the > chance to cant on "Gryffindor" and "Ravenclaw.") Should I pass on to any list-readers who don't know it, the bumper sticker: Heralds Don't Pun, They Cant? I'll add my voice to the clamor of those who say that Ravenclaw's mascot should be a Raven (possible perching on a pallid bust of Pallas) rather than an eagle. Altho' it is possible that Gruffydd Glndwr DID choose to bear a lion as his sign, and not change it to match the names the Sais gave him... [Gruffydd Glndwr is my theory.] > To answer your question, I'd sooner believe in a world where > Hogwarts exists than one where a charge may (must?) be the same > color as half the field. Is that a reference to that toad changing the Ravenclaw charge from a bronze eagle displayed on a blue field to a bronze eagle's HEAD on a bronze bend on a blue field? That was a *repulsive* act, perhaps inspired by that artist's desire to decapitate all wonks. Isn't it also stealing the famous Scroopes arms, Azure a bend or? As bronze, despite being an Olympic medal, is not a heraldic metal, not even a heraldic color, not even a color which by another name is a heraldic color. So wouldn't they HAVE to depict a bronze object as or? Which does, I guess, inspire the possibility that Rowena was assigned the image of the Roman Legion standard that she cherished among her antiques... [That Rowena even HAD antiques is less than a theory.] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 01:57:09 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:57:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shocked and Apalled!! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7079 Be Forewarned: Angry Rant to Follow I live in Texas, and sometimes i am extremely disappointed to say that here, people live up to a bible banging hick stereotype. In a school district near me, October brought up a nasty fight between district administrators and parents. What were they fighting over, you ask? The Harry Potter books of course! MANY parents who had refused to allow their children to read them "based upon witchcraft and wizardry and magic" were complaining about the availibility of the books at school. So what did the district do? They banned the books from the library. Also, while yes, if your parent permits you to read the book, you may bring it in, BUT the kids arent allowed to talk about the book or lend them to each other. Parents were also petitioning for the adding of a non-Harry potter merchandise to the dress code etc, aka no Harry Potter notebooks or tshirts etc. When i saw the parents complaining, it was before i had read the books. I said, well, ok i guess that makes sense. Then i read the books. I mean, they obviously celebrate christmas and easter dont they? They fight the evil dark forces dont they? I mean, they portray the FAIRY TALE version of a witch, not the new crap we are subjected to today where i walk down the halls and see people in all black claiming to be satanists. I can not even begin to state my anger, banning books, flashback to the 50s much?!?!?!?!?!?! While yes, i will say that the books may not be appropriate for children of some ages. My electronics teacher was telling me that his wife reads the books aloud to his kids (who are 6 and 8 but LOVE th books) and leaves out things she does not feel they are ready for...aka violence....bad language....and specifics about torture, and fills in gaps with toned down versions of the material. But i mean, these people are acting out on religious grounds and this makes me wonder if they have even READ the books. I would call myself fairly religous(I am lutheran not that it is important) and the books dont bother me AT ALL....Anyways...to end m rant, i am shocked and appalled at this act and wonder when people will realize that fiction is fiction, that their 9 year old will want to fight the bad side....i mean, kids KNOW that Magic doesnt exsist as well as grown ups do. Maybe more so. I can not tell you the innumerable conversations my mother had while decorating the Christmas tree, using about 30 strings of lights, pretainging to our wish for a wand and an "Attatchio" spell to make our lives that much easier. Thanks for listening and let me know if you think that the administrators were within hteir rights to do so. Stephanie, The Shocked _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 01:59:14 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:59:14 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Latin OT References: <91h55s+708j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013601c067cc$f5a5ffa0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7080 It takes place all over the mediterranean -- Turkey, Greece and Italy mostly. Simon. > Troy? > It's Latin, but takes place in upstate New York? ~;) From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 02:01:11 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:01:11 -0000 Subject: OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious), and is now longer and more tedious) In-Reply-To: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91h6p7+hm58@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7081 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > --- Michelle Apostolides skrev: > [snip] > > Anybody desiring to make a fanfic based on the below, get in touch - I > have some ideas for a Norwegian/Scandinavian school of magic (assuming > that Rowling's recent statement was proof that Durmstrangs has her > completely fooled). > > If they go to a Norwegian school, they might get served lutefisk (dried > fish that has soaked for a while in potash lye - sort of a belak yellow > jelly-like wobbly substance smelling of dried fish and ammonia), or > boiled codfish-heads. The most prevalent theory on how lutefisk came > to be, is that a storage house packed with stock-fish burnt down, and > then the remains got soaked in a rainstorm. Someone desperately hungry > then to their great surprise discovered that it was in fact edible (not > that all Norwegians would agree on that subject). Has anyone else here read Garrison Keillor's description of the Lake Wobegon butcher's annual self-inflicted torture, preparing lutefisk? He states that the butcher has a special lutefisk-making apron and hat which he keeps in the trunk of his car (Ford LTD), because his wife won't allow them in the house! The Catholic priest of L.W. is said to have stated, "The Lutherans don't need purgatory-they have lutefisk" Not something I'm tempted to try, then. - Noel, who's off to dig up his Garrison Keillor books. (waves wand) Accio! Accio! Accio! From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 02:06:42 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:06:42 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious), and is now longer and more tedious) References: <91h6p7+hm58@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <014401c067ce$00e69810$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7082 > - Noel, who's off to dig up his Garrison Keillor books. (waves wand) > Accio! Accio! Accio! Can Accio be done on something that's not yours? It sounds like an easy way to steal stuff... why bother getting through the guards at gringotts when you can just make it fly towards you? Ditto to the PS. Ditto to the GoF :-) Simon. From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 02:15:17 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:15:17 -0000 Subject: More from the Christmas crackpot... In-Reply-To: <002101c0677a$3d330a00$c43670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <91h7jl+7761@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7083 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Christian said: > > <<>> > > Similarly, British people have to listen to the noble and glorious Queen > blathering on at 3pm on Christmas Day. One year, when the Royal Family had > had a particularly crap year - with divorce, death and smouldering buildings > on the calendar - Elizabeth called it their "annus horribilis" (Queentalk > for "f***ing nightmare!!!!"). Incidentally, the British Royal Family, being > of German extraction (apart from Prince Philip, who is "of Greece"), open > their presents in the European tradition, on Christmas Eve. The loyal > subjects have the patience to wait until the next morning. I think the President of the U.S. makes a Christmas speech, too; I think I've heard of it. But I'm not sure; you see, if he does, nobody pays any attention :) My French-Canadian family usually had the Christmas party on Christmas Eve; this got started after they moved to the U.S. and may be unique to our family. Many, many years ago, when my mother was a kid, the family got home from Midnight Mass and the kids were too wired to go to bed and wanted to open presents- over the next few years, their entire Christmas party moved to Christmas Eve. By the time I came along, we were this massive family* and everyone still came to the Christmas Eve party; about 40 people in 4 rooms, so finger foods only (no room to sit!). There were people coming and going all evening from 4PM to midnight, with big blasts of new arrivals when each Mass got out. It was convenient to have the whole-family celebration on Christmas Eve and each family's private festivities on the day. *My mother has 9 sisters and a brother. From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Dec 17 02:17:50 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:17:50 -0000 Subject: Pringles--OT bigtime In-Reply-To: <918cnv+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91h7oe+39mo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7084 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > > Can anyone help me out with a definition for Pringle? All I know > > right now is that Pringles are pretty tasty potato chips, but that doesn't seem to fit the mold. Ideas? > > The Pringle family were a bunch of self-righteous snobs in Anne of > Green Gables. But that's probably not where JKR got it from. Then > again...she did name the cat Mrs. Norris after the character in > Mansfield Park by Jane Austin... > > Steve Vander Ark Actually, they were in Anne of Windy Poplars, and were against Anne because they thought a relative of theirs should have been hired for the principalship of Summerside High School. Anne "won" them over by finding a choice piece of information on one of their ancestors (a little cannibalism among shipwrecked sailors). They were so afraid she'd spread the story that they bent over backwards sucking up to Anne. Hermione mode off now. Trina (lover of Anne for 21 years) From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 02:24:13 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:24:13 -0000 Subject: Mom not Mum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91h84d+2c7p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7085 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > > >I don't know which American editions you have Stephanie, but mine all > >say Mom, not Mum. So, yeah, they *did* change even that! > > > I promise....Bc in the scene in CoS where they get back from the car and > Mrs. Weasley is telling the boys to de knome the garder...fred says to Lockhart> "Mum FANCIES him" > > And in PoA....Harry always refers to hearing his mother screaming as "I hear > my MUM screaming..." > > Stephanie My copy of SS which I bought in January 1999 has "Mom"- it's printing details are; "First American Edition" I think 23rd printing (above "First Am..." it says "Printed in the U.S.A. 23"; I bought all three of the otheres on the U.S release day and they all have "Mum" whenever the word is uttered, whether by a Weasley or in the narration. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 02:33:59 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:33:59 -0000 Subject: Hippogriff: was Oscar Wilde connection? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20001216182327.00aca690@singnet.com.sg> Message-ID: <91h8mn+2lo3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7086 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Rhysenn wrote: > I just picked up a book from the library -- an Oscar Wilde selected > poems compilation. (snip) read this particular poem, entitled, > "The Sphinx". (snip) I'm quoting the relevant bits: > A thousand weary centuries are thine while I have hardly seen > Some twenty summers cast their green for autumn's gaudy liveries. > But you can read the hieroglyphs on the great sandstone obelisks, > And you have talked with Basilisks, and you have looked on > Hippogriffs. The Hipppogriff resembles the Griffin that both have an Eagle as their front half. The Griffon has the back half of a Lion as its back half and the Hippogriff has the back half of a Horse as its back half. The name Griffin (gryphon) comes from a Greek word meaning 'to grab' because it grabs things (like nice edible sheep, or humans) with its claws. The name Hippogriff combines Hippos (Greek for Horse, as in the name of the prehistoric mammal Eohippos for Dawn Horse) with the name Griffin. I don't when the Hippogriff was invented (or discovered by Muggles), but the Griffin goes WAY back in both Greece and China. The Griffin is thought to have been brought to Greece by the Scythians, along with all that gold they hired Greek artisans to turn into jewelry -- the gold eroded out of IIRC Altai Mountains of the Red Desert in Chinese Mongolia, where Mongolians collected it and traded it to Scythians, along with stories of the dangerous griffins who guarded the gold. It is thought that the Mongolians (who also traded gold and griffin tales toward China at the same time) were exagerating about the danger of griffins, as they had never seen one that was not a fossil: specifically fossils of Oviraptor nesting on their eggs, which are the treasure that erodes out of those mountains nowadays. But it was easy for the Mongolians to recognize from the fossils that these huge critters had beaks and claws and nested on their eggs, thus resembling huge eagles, and had four legs with claws, thus resembling lions more than birds. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 02:37:37 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:37:37 -0000 Subject: Odd sources for things with possible HP importance In-Reply-To: <20001216130434.27835.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91h8th+8v6s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7087 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > Christianisation (that was not a good word, was it?) That is the exact right word, except that Americans spell it with a Z instead of an S. I am inconsistent because my spelling includes 'realisation' but 'civilization'. > Eve became ashamed that they had so many children, and hid half of > them. God then said: 'Those that are hidden > will remain hidden.') I had somehow come to believe that she hid the ones that she hadn't had time to wash and dress so that they'd look nice for the important visitor. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 02:39:06 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:39:06 +1100 Subject: Hippogriff References: <91h8mn+2lo3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017901c067d2$87737de0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7088 Wow... the Hippogriff really existed then -- one of those flying reptiles from the late dinosaur era. > It is thought that the Mongolians (who also traded gold and griffin > tales toward China at the same time) were exagerating about the > danger of griffins, as they had never seen one that was not a fossil: > specifically fossils of Oviraptor nesting on their eggs, which are > the treasure that erodes out of those mountains nowadays. But it was > easy for the Mongolians to recognize from the fossils that these huge > critters had beaks and claws and nested on their eggs, thus > resembling huge eagles, and had four legs with claws, thus resembling > lions more than birds. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 02:45:18 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:45:18 -0000 Subject: (OT) Boxing Day Message-ID: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7089 All right, they're really going to get sick of me now... Could someone e-mail me off list and tell me what actually happens on Boxing Day? I'm on Chapters 2 and 3 of this thing now, and it's really important as far as setting is concerned. (BTW, how come the kids don't celebrate it at Hogwarts?) Sorry--my next post will be on topic, promise! Time to send chapter one to the beta-readers and British copy editor (thanks Michelle!)... I can't believe it's chugging along. Thanks goes to all who let me revise the Christmas dinner discussion... you helped lots, and will be duly thanked in the author's note. Take care, Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 02:45:27 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:45:27 -0000 Subject: OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious), and is now longer and more tedious) In-Reply-To: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91h9c7+5l1q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7090 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > If they go to a Norwegian school, they might get served lutefisk > (dried fish that has soaked for a while in potash lye - sort of a > belak yellow jelly-like wobbly substance smelling of dried fish and > ammonia), Is 'belak' a word or a typo? > (snip) The most prevalent theory on how lutefisk came to be, is > that a storage house packed with stock-fish burnt down, and then > the remains got soaked in a rainstorm. Someone desperately hungry > then to their great surprise discovered that it was in fact edible > (not that all Norwegians would agree on that subject). I am spacing out on the name of the prominent American poet who visited Iceland with a friend along around 1910 (when he was just a student, not yet prominent) and reported on lutefisk that it resembled a cross between rotten fish and the thick skin of a big callous removed from the sole of a foot. I brought that x-th hand quote to a session of our "Vikings" frp game, and one player explained with enthusiasm that he himself had visited Iceland and found that the lutefisk was saved until the end of winter (ice is breaking up) when there is nothing else left to eat, and the women say: "Oh, good, it's finally lutefisk time" and fetch out the barrels, whereupon the men say: "Oh, I'm so sorry to miss it, but I just remembered that I have to go Viking now." I don't know if that man ever HAD been to Iceland (he lived in Germany for a couple of years) but I know that modern people only sail replica Viking ships, not go Viking to burn and kill landlubbers. From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 02:47:35 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:47:35 -0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic)] In-Reply-To: <91h631+v05p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91h9g7+5pdu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7091 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > This is another plummy comment on the HP heraldry, from my heraldry > > group. > > Should I pass on to any list-readers who don't know it, the bumper > sticker: Heralds Don't Pun, They Cant? > I can picture the Weasleys' rather proud, chauvinistic Anglia sporting a sticker that says "Heralds Don't Run, They Cant" (Oh, well, at least the Brits might get it) -Noel, who knows way too much about old cars. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 02:49:34 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:49:34 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day References: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7092 No-one actually celebrates Boxing Day. It's just a second public holiday where you spend time with the family. Very little gets done. Simon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebony " To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 1:45 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day > All right, they're really going to get sick of me now... > > Could someone e-mail me off list and tell me what actually happens on > Boxing Day? I'm on Chapters 2 and 3 of this thing now, and it's > really important as far as setting is concerned. (BTW, how come the > kids don't celebrate it at Hogwarts?) > > Sorry--my next post will be on topic, promise! > > Time to send chapter one to the beta-readers and British copy editor > (thanks Michelle!)... I can't believe it's chugging along. Thanks > goes to all who let me revise the Christmas dinner discussion... you > helped lots, and will be duly thanked in the author's note. > > Take care, > > Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 02:56:01 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:56:01 -0000 Subject: Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91ha01+5mhv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7093 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > not to continue the american-bashing here (since i am one, after > all), but can any of you other Americans imagine having party- > favors with GUNPOWDER in them?!?!? Aren't there still cap-pistols, with a long strip of green paper with dots that go bang? In my childhood, the dots that go bang were made of gunpowder. And I have seen Christmas crackers on offer in American mail order catalogs, I think including WIRELESS and SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM. A quick search found no Web sites trying to sell me Xmas crackers, but did found the following source of information: http://www.absolutelycrackers.com/ From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 02:57:25 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:57:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mom not Mum Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7094 < My copy of SS which I bought in January 1999 has "Mom"- it's printing details are; "First American Edition" I think 23rd printing (above "First Am..." it says "Printed in the U.S.A. 23"; I bought all three of the otheres on the U.S release day and they all have "Mum" whenever the word is uttered, whether by a Weasley or in the narration. > I have the same edition,. except i bought it in oct of 98 when it came out or rather my dad did. Hagrid says Mum and but the weasley's dont, and i know it is an american edition bc it says so and is SS not PS "But it's that sad- knew your mum and dad...." ANd yes, i checked carefull and it is ALWAYS mom in the other books. I think that what happened, is that dif editors were checking dif chapters as publishers i suppose are pron to do, and one git decided mum couldnt be right(prop some fresh out of college never left his room bc of video games idiot) and did Mom. But who knows, bc i doubt that Mom was on purpose or they woulda had everyone say Mom.... Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Dec 17 02:57:23 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:57:23 -0000 Subject: Wand Order Story for Salon.com In-Reply-To: <3A38D9D8.3493A97C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91ha2j+8vi1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7095 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: In her letter to Salon.com: "The theory that we originally came up with that *I* liked the best was that Harry unconsciously *wanted* to see his father so desperately at that point that he somehow magically caused the images inside the wand to reverse order. Of course, we had a number of other theories, ranging from perfectly plausible to insane, and I'd be happy to share those with you in more detail if you're interested." I like this theory too, Penny (could it be that it is mine? Blushing furiously...) and no matter what comes of the wand order change I am sticking with my belief that this is the reason that James and Lily were reversed in the Priori Incantatem. A break from the cannon! Oh no! Can I still stay here? Trina (greatly relieved that the Christmas break is here!) From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 03:09:03 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:09:03 -0000 Subject: (OT) Boxing Day In-Reply-To: <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <91haof+8k6e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7096 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > No-one actually celebrates Boxing Day. It's just a second public > holiday where you spend time with the family. Very little gets done. As an American, the main thing I know about Boxing Day is that the British Consulate throws a Boxing Day party (to which I am not invited). However, according to my trove of obscure and not neccesarily accurate lore, in England the servants had to work on Christmas. (They must have had to work extra hard, to provide the party and all its traditions for all the extended family members who gathered at the biggest house.) Since the servants were working instead of celebrating Christmas, their employers gave them their Christmas presents (called 'Christmas boxes' in those days, whence the name Boxing Day) and a day off, on the day AFTER Christmas. Presumably the family members found it rather adventurous to feed themselves on the leftovers from the Xmas party instead of summoning a servant to bring them food. The wizard folk may never have done Boxing Day, as House Elves don't want a day off. From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Dec 17 03:16:00 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:16:00 -0000 Subject: HP Plot Synopsis (song) In-Reply-To: <91bpqg+qted@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91hb5g+l8n4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7097 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > The following song is more or less sung to the tune of The > Presidents' Song from the Animaniacs (episode 75), which in turn is > more or less sung to the final section of Rossini's William Tell > Overture (i.e., the Lone Ranger part). Loved the song!!! Also love the Animaniacs and envisioned Yakko singing this. Keep up the good work! Trina From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 17 03:20:50 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:20:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Essays, OT: Wild Swans References: <91g0vf+gv55@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3C3112.CE50CAA8@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7098 Ebony wrote: > Hi, Peg! Do you think it might be a good idea to archive your essays > in the Files section? I know you might not have the time, but this > way, members could read all of them at a glance. Good idea--um, Jim or Penny, how do I do this? I've uploaded pictures before, but not text. > --Ebony (who will *finally* have time to read her copy of Wild Swans > over Christmas--yes!) Hope you like it, Ebony--and if you do, that you'll let me know. BTW [OT], an egroup has started up to discuss the book (Carole is the group leader, and I'm on it, too.) I've posted some stuff there which might be of interest--photographs of people that I based some of the characters on, etc. You can sign up at: http://www.egroups.com/group/WildSwans And congratulations on the job! One of the most influential persons in my life was my senior year AP English teacher. Twenty years after I graduated, I sent him a copy of my first book, and we've been corresponding ever since--he just sent me an email tonight, in fact. Peg http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m391/d-lena/PegKerrBibliog.html Currently rereading _Tam Lin_ by Pamela Dean (again! -- highly recommended, esp. for English majors and AP English teachers) Current CD: On Yoolis Night by Anonymous 4 Last Movie Seen: The Family Man From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 04:34:11 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:34:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Essays, OT:Ebony References: <91g0vf+gv55@eGroups.com> <3A3C3112.CE50CAA8@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <013801c067e2$9cab0f60$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7099 Hi! Feeling like I have a cooperative body again (Hate Gi's.) if you don't count the URI, which I am used to. I actually can read messages again without getting a headache! :) Seriously.... 'Grats Ebony! I am glad you got that job! I too had the opportunity to do AP, and I learned alot in it (it was hard work, but well worth it!) Peg, as for uploading the essays: I don't know if you've been to the chatscripts, but when I upload the multi-colored versions, I open the text documents in WORD and make them webpages/html, then upload those (The first is the original, which usually gets the lament "I can't open them!", the second is the html, which opens in the same page....which reminds me, I still have to read POU's last chapter....chuckles. I'm soooo far behind in literary works...I am not a winterperson mentally.) If you need more help, feel free to email me, or icq me. I'm going to try to be there for the chat tomorrow.... Another question for the powers that be? The chat the 24th. I know that not all folks celebrate all the holidays, but in my mom's family, that is Christmas eve, and it might be hard to get into chat (KEWL YULE, btw, all!), and I haven't a clue what the Jewish faiths due for Sundays (isn't Saturday the Sabbath??) but it is during Hannuka (SP?) which I finally learned what that is this week (yeah!) in a conscious effort to be more multi-religion intelligent! Kwanza (again sp?) is a really neat holiday, too from what I learned. (Btw, they shut off my "standard" cable tier, leaving me with PBS/Home schooling shows, if that explains part of it? LOL) Off to sleep off the meds... At least I will be infection free for Christmas! (Zithromax!) Dee ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Essays, OT: Wild Swans Ebony wrote: > Hi, Peg! Do you think it might be a good idea to archive your essays > in the Files section? I know you might not have the time, but this > way, members could read all of them at a glance. Good idea--um, Jim or Penny, how do I do this? I've uploaded pictures before, but not text. > --Ebony (who will *finally* have time to read her copy of Wild Swans > over Christmas--yes!) Hope you like it, Ebony--and if you do, that you'll let me know. BTW [OT], an egroup has started up to discuss the book (Carole is the group leader, and I'm on it, too.) I've posted some stuff there which might be of interest--photographs of people that I based some of the characters on, etc. You can sign up at: http://www.egroups.com/group/WildSwans And congratulations on the job! One of the most influential persons in my life was my senior year AP English teacher. Twenty years after I graduated, I sent him a copy of my first book, and we've been corresponding ever since--he just sent me an email tonight, in fact. Peg http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m391/d-lena/PegKerrBibliog.html Currently rereading _Tam Lin_ by Pamela Dean (again! -- highly recommended, esp. for English majors and AP English teachers) Current CD: On Yoolis Night by Anonymous 4 Last Movie Seen: The Family Man eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 03:36:52 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:36:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape and the Map Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7100 I was thinking about the books the other day and have a curious Question to ask. In the end of book 3 when Snape busts in on Lupin Black Hermione Harry and Ron, he says he saw Lupin running down the corridor towards the whomping willow via the Marauder's Map. Now if this were the case, wouldnt it make sense that among the names in the room he would have noticed Peter Pettigrew? I mean he HAD to look where Lupin was going....Yes, I remember that that part of the map is off of the map, but Lupin couldnt have been THAT far behind could he? Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 17 03:42:37 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:42:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England References: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A3C362D.7A4EBA3E@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7101 Christian Stub wrote: > If they go to a Norwegian school, they might get served lutefisk I went to St. Olaf College, which was founded by Norwegian immigrants, and every year they have a Christmas festival, with a fantastic music program put on by the choirs and the orchestra, and they serve a Norwegian dinner, both in the cafeteria and in the banquet facilities, for parents and alumni, coming to the concert. That was my first exposure to lutefisk; I've only tasted it once or twice. Here in Minnesota, with its large Norwegian immigrant population, you hear a lot of lutefisk jokes. Do you also serve lefse at Christmas time? You didn't mention it in your menu. Sort of a potato based tortilla, I understand, which they served at the St. Olaf dinner Christmas dinner every year, and I became quite fond of it. We spread ours with butter, sprinkled it with cinnamon sugar, and rolled it up and ate it that way. I also remember something that was rather like a thin white pudding, and I liked it too. I remember it being called something like "flot grot." I'm sure that's misspelled. What is it made of? From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 03:50:42 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:50:42 -0000 Subject: Mom versus Mum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91hd6i+40mt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7102 Well I quickly searched my books (American editions) for the Mom/Mum references and found a few obscure ones. iwould have to do a better look-over but it seems to me that my SS (I think it's the 45th printing) and I found Mom. In the other books however I found Mum. Does that seem consistent with everyone else's books? Is it possible that it was changed in subsequent editions? Scott From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Dec 17 04:14:23 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:14:23 -0000 Subject: Christmas Crackers (OT) In-Reply-To: <91ha01+5mhv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91heiv+g0bq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7103 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > And I have seen Christmas crackers on offer in American mail order > catalogs, I think including WIRELESS and SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM. A quick > search found no Web sites trying to sell me Xmas crackers, but did > found the following source of information: > http://www.absolutelycrackers.com/ Pier 1 Imports have crackers as well, even here in my little South Carolina town. Also Lands' End catalog (and maybe the website) sells them. Trina (who has delurked with a vengence tonight!) From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 04:26:28 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:26:28 -0000 Subject: Every Flavour Beans and the Beacham Sourcebook (aka the vomit bean...) Message-ID: <91hf9k+3ek5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7104 I was Christmas Shopping with my mom and Grandmom today and that included a trip to Barnes and Noble. I was quickly banished to the Cafe though because they were buying pressies, and since all I asked for was books and HP stuff... Anyway that was fine with me b/c I finally had time to peruse the fabled Beacham Sourcebook over a hot cup of tea. I can now say, with the authority of 1/2 hour's reading, that it was horrid. No real suprise but then what were you expecting!?! One thing I found rather amusing was that the rigid attitudes of the Mason's, the Dursely's dinner guests at the beggining of CoS, foreshadowed the petrification of Hogwarts students later in the narrative (or something to that effect). Also about Every Flavour Beans- I also found them at BN today, and I think that EVERYONE should go get some. Why? Well b/c they were free. My Grandmom was paying for something and got them and said that they came free as a promotional item with every HP purchase, yet as far as I know she made no such purchase. Hey maybe she bought me a HP present and just didn't want to let on. Hmmm... I was impressed with the beans. I got a black pepper and a sardine and they were spot on, even if they were horrible. However I thought the Honey Graham Cracker was really good. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 17 03:57:29 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:57:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day References: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <3A3C39A9.E57DB0A8@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7105 Simon Biber wrote: > No-one actually celebrates Boxing Day. It's just a second public holiday > where you spend time with the family. Very little gets done. > > Simon. Anyone know why it is called "Boxing" day? An odd name for a holiday, if you think about it. Peg, curious From eliasberg at ioc.net Sun Dec 17 04:51:23 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:51:23 -0000 Subject: Snape and the Map In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91hgob+pgo2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7106 Snape saw lupin running out, but the 5 others (H,H,R,S,P) were already in the Shrieking Shack and therefore off the map. As it stated earlier in PoA you can see the passages leave the map, but you don't know where they end. Dave From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 05:08:54 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:08:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Accio Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7107 Simon- A while ago you wrote an Email about Accio being used to steal stuff....well it CAN be used on something that isnt yours. Remember at the beginning of GoF, Mrs. Weasley uses Accio to get all of the Ton-Tongue Toffees out of the twins pockets. But if someone used it to steal things, they would prob be brought before the improper use of magic board, and so i dount they would try! Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 05:39:11 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:39:11 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day References: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> <3A3C39A9.E57DB0A8@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <01d601c067eb$afa11980$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7108 > Anyone know why it is called "Boxing" day? An odd name for a holiday, > if you think about it. Yes, see Rita Winston's post: # However, according to my trove of obscure and not neccesarily # accurate lore, in England the servants had to work on Christmas. # (They must have had to work extra hard, to provide the party and # all its traditions for all the extended family members who gathered # at the biggest house.) Since the servants were working instead of # celebrating Christmas, their employers gave them their Christmas # presents (called 'Christmas boxes' in those days, whence the name # Boxing Day) and a day off, on the day AFTER Christmas. Presumably # the family members found it rather adventurous to feed themselves on # the leftovers from the Xmas party instead of summoning a servant to # bring them food. # # The wizard folk may never have done Boxing Day, as House Elves don't # want a day off. Simon. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 17 06:06:14 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 06:06:14 -0000 Subject: Hippogriff: was Oscar Wilde connection? In-Reply-To: <91h8mn+2lo3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91hl4m+cq12@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7109 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > . > > The Hipppogriff resembles the Griffin that both have an Eagle as > their front half. The Griffon has the back half of a Lion as its back > half and the Hippogriff has the back half of a Horse as its back > half. The name Griffin (gryphon) comes from a Greek word meaning 'to > grab' because it grabs things (like nice edible sheep, or humans) > with its claws. The name Hippogriff combines Hippos (Greek for Horse, > as in the name of the prehistoric mammal Eohippos for Dawn Horse) > with the name Griffin. > Of course, the most famous griffin in British Literature is in Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. In the chapter The Mock Turtle's Story, he is the pseudo-turtle's inseperable companion. You can see what he looks like thanks to John Tenniel's immortal illustrations. - CMC From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Dec 17 06:27:01 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:27:01 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7110 In a message dated 12/16/2000 11:36:50 PM EST, harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes: << Also about Every Flavour Beans- I also found them at BN today, and I think that EVERYONE should go get some. Why? Well b/c they were free. >> Waaaaah! I paid for mine! And I had to buy them as sets with mugs too! This was at the WB store in a local mall. I'm giving 2 sets as presents. I haven't had the nerve to open them up yet. I've also got the Hogwarts Journal, which I purchased at Borders Books and "body stickers" (temp. tattoos that can also be used as stickers, I think) from a Hallmark store. I bought a nice warm Harry Potter throw at Bed Bath & Beyond. Just a minor collection so far, but it's a start. I had to quit buying as I've been forbidden to purchase HP related merchandise until the holidays are over. Very frustrating!!! IIRC, some of y'all found chocolate frogs ... Where? I'd really like to buy some of those as presents, too. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 17 06:38:21 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 06:38:21 -0000 Subject: Expecto Patronum! (filk) Message-ID: <91hn0t+l5pn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7111 Expecto Patronum! (to the tune of Hukuna Matata, from The Lion King) (The Scene opens to reveal HARRY POTTER AND REMUS LUPIN in the History of Magic classroom) RL (spoken) The spell I am going to try and teach you is highly advanced magic, Harry ? well beyond Ordinary Wizarding Level. It is called the Patronus Charm. The incantation is this (clearing his throat) Expecto Patronum! HP (spoken): What a magical phrase! RL:(music) Expecto Patronum (waves his wand, bringing forth PRONGS, in a shimmering, silvery shape) Comes in a silvery glaze RL & P: It's manifested In a manner that's sure to amaze ALL: It will troubleshoot when things get acute Expecto Patronum! RL: When I was a young werewolf HP & P: When he was a young werewolf P: He found that the world did not give much hope HP: To a youth diagnosed as a full lycanthrope RL: I'm a sensitive soul when it's not a full moon The motivations of others I will not impugn But, oh, the shame, When I'd accidentally maim Or if I'd disembowled.... HP: (spoken) Ah, professor ? I think we're getting OT here.. RL (spoken, with reserve returned) Yes, of course .. ALL: Expecto Patronum! RL: Offers stunning displays P: Dementors? ? You own `em!! RL & P: They glide away in a daze P: It's a projection Of your spirit's optimal rays ALL: When you feel faint, call your patron saint! Expecto Patronum! - CMC From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 07:41:57 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:41:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Expecto Patronum! (filk) Apppppppplause! References: <91hn0t+l5pn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01cf01c067fc$d721a5e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7112 Another great one. :D ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Caius Marcius To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 12:38 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Expecto Patronum! (filk) Expecto Patronum! (to the tune of Hukuna Matata, from The Lion King) (The Scene opens to reveal HARRY POTTER AND REMUS LUPIN in the History of Magic classroom) RL (spoken) The spell I am going to try and teach you is highly advanced magic, Harry - well beyond Ordinary Wizarding Level. It is called the Patronus Charm. The incantation is this (clearing his throat) Expecto Patronum! HP (spoken): What a magical phrase! RL:(music) Expecto Patronum (waves his wand, bringing forth PRONGS, in a shimmering, silvery shape) Comes in a silvery glaze RL & P: It's manifested In a manner that's sure to amaze ALL: It will troubleshoot when things get acute Expecto Patronum! RL: When I was a young werewolf HP & P: When he was a young werewolf P: He found that the world did not give much hope HP: To a youth diagnosed as a full lycanthrope RL: I'm a sensitive soul when it's not a full moon The motivations of others I will not impugn But, oh, the shame, When I'd accidentally maim Or if I'd disembowled.... HP: (spoken) Ah, professor - I think we're getting OT here.. RL (spoken, with reserve returned) Yes, of course... ALL: Expecto Patronum! RL: Offers stunning displays P: Dementors? - You own `em!! RL & P: They glide away in a daze P: It's a projection Of your spirit's optimal rays ALL: When you feel faint, call your patron saint! Expecto Patronum! - CMC eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 17 07:16:31 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:16:31 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: MacNair In-Reply-To: <91f9rl+nupf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91hp8f+op9c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7113 Well, I think Thoreau and Walden Pond have a high level of recognition among Americans who are educated. JKR obviously has drawn from a wide variety of traditions, and I think it's highly likely she knows who Thoreau is. However, I doubt that death eater McNair would have been named after Walden Pond Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 17 07:18:39 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:18:39 -0000 Subject: Odd sources for things with possible HP importance/OT cats In-Reply-To: <91ep55+rpbe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91hpcf+n99t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7114 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Ok, I know these don't sound exactly like good HP sources but on > second thought they can't be more off than the Beecham (sp?) book... > > I was looking through a Christmas catalogue the other day and saw a > little factoid about elves which stated that at one time all (or > most) magical creatures of the sort were called elves. Does that make > sense? (I can no longer find the catalogue.) Anyway there was some > discussion a while back that the House elves of HP seemed more like > brownies, and under the above classification they technically could > be. Right? > > Also in another book, strangely enough one about the breeds of cats, > I found a caption that read- > > "During the Middle Ages, cats suffered terrible persecution at the > hands of superstitious people who believed that witches could change > themselves into cats and back again at will. So many cats were burned > alive that the species was almost extinct in Europe in 1400. These > witches are depicted accompanied by a cat, a dog, a mouse and an owl- > their 'familiars', or demons in the form of animals. > > I thought that was interesting, esp. the last sentence...not sure how > reliable either of these sources are though. Anyway it's something to > chew over. > > Scott > > yes, cats were persecuted at the same time witches were burned..and in a college town, we all knew to keep our black cats and white cats (particularly) at home lest they fall victim to the frat boys (the descendants of the witchburners) From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 17 07:25:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:25:50 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner in England In-Reply-To: <003101c0674a$a86b0280$31088cd4@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <91hppu+oor5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7115 > > > I understand the Christmas pudding is filled with coins and charms, > > soaked in brandy and flamed. Is this correct? My experience with > > flaming food is sadly only flaming cheese--we have a large Greek > > community here. Is the concept similar? > It's a steamed pudding made ( very basic knowledge of ingredients here - > only made iot once myself ) from currants, raisins, candied fuits, > treacle ( like molasses ), sugar, suet and sugar. Plus booze. It's nice > but stodgy. > > I assume we are talking about plum pudding here? yes? with hard sauce? You can buy it, but you really need to make it a couple of months ahead with hard sauce. I will post my recipe if anyone is interested. From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 01:47:02 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:47:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7116 < Simon Wrote: It's not very _much_ gunpowder, certainly nothing too dangerous. Surely you have other kids stuff with gunpowder? Like party poppers (pull the string and shoot streamers everywhere), or cap guns? > Actually, the party streamers, where I live, you have to show ID that you are 16 to buy them, and they dnot have cap guns anywhere but antique stores now ;) It is crazy....You have to have ID and be at least 17 to buy Spray Paint or even Rubber cement....But thats America For You!! Gotta keep the citizens safe! Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 17 08:48:24 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:48:24 +1100 Subject: saftey in america Message-ID: <01C06862.58148F40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7117 Actually, the party streamers, where I live, you have to show ID that you are 16 to buy them, and they dnot have cap guns anywhere but antique stores now ;) It is crazy....You have to have ID and be at least 17 to buy Spray Paint or even Rubber cement....But thats America For You!! Gotta keep the citizens safe! Stephanie Huh? We are talking about the same country as the one where lots of people for not apparent reason keep lots of guns and knives and stuff aren't we? I guess 'keeping the citizens safe' has many interpretations storm -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie Becvar [SMTP:StephBecvar at hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:47 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) < Simon Wrote: It's not very _much_ gunpowder, certainly nothing too dangerous. Surely you have other kids stuff with gunpowder? Like party poppers (pull the string and shoot streamers everywhere), or cap guns? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 17 09:07:06 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:07:06 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: Message-ID: <021601c06808$bbef40a0$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7118 That is incredible, even hypocritical. In a country where people defend their right to carry guns so strongly I can't believe they have done that to innocent child's toys! Here most boys have a cap gun or two in the cupboard, and we have party poppers, sparklers, etc for parties. Cap guns - Some use two long strips of paper glued together with dots of powder which get hit by the hammer as the strip feeds through. Others have red plastic rings with six pits each of which has gunpowder in the bottom, and these load into a revolver which turns the barrel to hit each one in turn. The paper ones are more fun -- you can burn the whole roll and make lots of bangs :-) Simon. > Actually, the party streamers, where I live, you have to show ID that you > are 16 to buy them, and they dnot have cap guns anywhere but antique stores > now ;) It is crazy....You have to have ID and be at least 17 to buy Spray > Paint or even Rubber cement....But thats America For You!! Gotta keep the > citizens safe! > > Stephanie From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 17 09:26:14 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:26:14 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shocked and Apalled!! Message-ID: <01C06867.A009F060.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7119 Sadly Stephanie this is not an isolated situation. Muggles for Harry Potter (www.mugglesforharrypotter.org) lead the fight against censorship and will tell you more about the current state of play in the ridiculous (IMHO) attempt by some people to ban or restrict access to HP books storm -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie Becvar [SMTP:StephBecvar at hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:57 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shocked and Apalled!! Be Forewarned: Angry Rant to Follow I live in Texas, and sometimes i am extremely disappointed to say that here, people live up to a bible banging hick stereotype. In a school district near me, October brought up a nasty fight between district administrators and parents. What were they fighting over, you ask? The Harry Potter books of course! MANY parents who had refused to allow their children to read them "based upon witchcraft and wizardry and magic" were complaining about the availibility of the books at school. So what did the district do? They banned the books from the library. Also, while yes, if your parent permits you to read the book, you may bring it in, BUT the kids arent allowed to talk about the book or lend them to each other. Parents were also petitioning for the adding of a non-Harry potter merchandise to the dress code etc, aka no Harry Potter notebooks or tshirts etc. When i saw the parents complaining, it was before i had read the books. I said, well, ok i guess that makes sense. Then i read the books. I mean, they obviously celebrate christmas and easter dont they? They fight the evil dark forces dont they? I mean, they portray the FAIRY TALE version of a witch, not the new crap we are subjected to today where i walk down the halls and see people in all black claiming to be satanists. I can not even begin to state my anger, banning books, flashback to the 50s much?!?!?!?!?!?! While yes, i will say that the books may not be appropriate for children of some ages. My electronics teacher was telling me that his wife reads the books aloud to his kids (who are 6 and 8 but LOVE th books) and leaves out things she does not feel they are ready for...aka violence....bad language....and specifics about torture, and fills in gaps with toned down versions of the material. But i mean, these people are acting out on religious grounds and this makes me wonder if they have even READ the books. I would call myself fairly religous(I am lutheran not that it is important) and the books dont bother me AT ALL....Anyways...to end m rant, i am shocked and appalled at this act and wonder when people will realize that fiction is fiction, that their 9 year old will want to fight the bad side....i mean, kids KNOW that Magic doesnt exsist as well as grown ups do. Maybe more so. I can not tell you the innumerable conversations my mother had while decorating the Christmas tree, using about 30 strings of lights, pretainging to our wish for a wand and an "Attatchio" spell to make our lives that much easier. Thanks for listening and let me know if you think that the administrators were within hteir rights to do so. Stephanie, The Shocked _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 09:48:46 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:48:46 -0000 Subject: OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious), and is now longer and more tedious) In-Reply-To: <014401c067ce$00e69810$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <91i25u+24n1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7120 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > - Noel, who's off to dig up his Garrison Keillor books. (waves wand) > > Accio! Accio! Accio! > > Can Accio be done on something that's not yours? It sounds like an easy way > to steal stuff... why bother getting through the guards at gringotts when > you can just make it fly towards you? Ditto to the PS. Ditto to the GoF :-) > > Simon. 1. Gringotts has to be very very seriously enchanted to protect it from theft. Obviously mere locks and safes wouldn't be enough of a protection against wizards. 2. I don't think Accio makes objects "beam" (in the star trek use) over to you. It makes the objects *fly* to you. So, a physical barrier should stop the object getting to you (wouldn't it?). Naama From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 10:20:22 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:20:22 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day References: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> <3A3C39A9.E57DB0A8@attglobal.net> <01d601c067eb$afa11980$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <00a801c06813$134796e0$243770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7121 Peg asked : <> Simon Biber said: <> *** Since a few people have kept this on-list, I guess it's okay to add a couple of things: These days (and possibly in the context of Ebony's fanfic), Boxing Day is the day on which tradespeople are given a 'Christmas Box', although I have no doubt that Catlady has hit on its deeper origins. When I was a child my mother would make a point of giving a Christmas Box to the dustmen, postman, milkman etc. Nowadays, she gives it to the hygiene engineers, delivery officer and dairy distributor, but she still does it. It's usually money... and in an envelope, not a box. Other than the name, Boxing Day is a national holiday on the first weekday after Christmas Day (usually the 26th, but the 27th if the 26th falls on weekend day) and of no particular significance (as Simon Biber said). It's the sort of 'lull after the storm' of Christmas excess, unless you have another Christmas dinner in store (which often happens if there are divided loyalties with relatives and 'in-laws'). Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sun Dec 17 10:53:45 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:53:45 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day References: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> <3A3C39A9.E57DB0A8@attglobal.net> <01d601c067eb$afa11980$e9b98490@EAGLE> <00a801c06813$134796e0$243770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <009101c06817$a13649c0$e7278cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7122 It's the sort of 'lull after the storm' of Christmas excess, unless you have another Christmas dinner in store (which often happens if there are divided loyalties with relatives and 'in-laws'). In my family, Boxing Day is the more exciting because we se my Mum's side of the family - four sisters, plus spouses, 11 grandchildren with assorted other halves and now their offspring and dependants picked up along the way. My brother's partner's daughter enjoyed it so much last year, she insisted that her visit to her father this year be timed so that she could be with us for Boxing Day because she idolises my younger female cousins. Michelle From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 10:55:47 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:55:47 -0000 Subject: Essays, OT:Ebony In-Reply-To: <013801c067e2$9cab0f60$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <91i63j+mf6r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7123 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rohleder" wrote: > > Another question for the powers that be? The chat the 24th. I know that not all folks celebrate all the holidays, but in my mom's family, that is Christmas eve, and it might be hard to get into chat (KEWL YULE, btw, all!), and I haven't a clue what the Jewish faiths due for Sundays (isn't Saturday the Sabbath??) but it is during Hannuka (SP?) which I finally learned what that is this week (yeah!) in a conscious effort to be more multi- religion intelligent! > If I undersand you correctly, you're asking whether sunday is a Sabbath day for Jews - it isn't, saturday is. Regarding sunday falling on Hanukka, it makes no real difference since Hanukka is not a "religious" holiday at all. Meaning, that unlike saturday you can work and do everything else as usual. BTW, It might come as a surprise to non-Jewish Americans, but Hanukka is not an important holiday at all, really. Its been made a lot of bc of its (completely coincidental) nearness to Christmas. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 12:33:47 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:33:47 -0000 Subject: owl mail In-Reply-To: <91dmiu+dp6u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ibrb+1rh9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7124 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > naama wrote: > > I have a little question regarding the hunderd owls that swoop into > > the dining room every morning: Why do all these owls arrive at > once? > > After all, people get owl mail every hour of the day and night > > anyway. > > I thought that maybe families that don't have owls of their own > would > > send an owl in the morning from the post office. But that doesn't > > make sense, because the owls come from all over the place and it > > would take them different amounts of time to reach Hogwarts. [do > you > > say that - 'differnt amounts of time'? I sometimes have trouble > with > > colloquialisms.] > > > > Naama > > Perhaps morning is the scheduled time for mail at Hogwarts. It would > be rather inconvenient if owls swooped in at any time of day to > deliver a package or letter (doubt Snape would tolerate an owl > delivery in the middle of Potions) > > :-) Milz Thanks for the answer, Milz. I actually thought of a reasonable answer about three minutes (obviously) after I posted the message. The owls arrive at the owlery at different times during the night, and then "swoop" into the dining room at breakfast. There still remains a little question about how they know to wait till morning. On holidays Hedwig brings Harry letters and packages during the night too. Well.. I guess its not really important, the owls just know that at Hogwarts they have to wait till morning. (Although - wouldn't it be uncomfortable for them to sit on their perches with letters or packages tied to their legs? And can you imagine Pigwidgeon just sitting quietly when he has a letter to deliver? He'd probably drive the other owls crazy, hopping and flying around with excitment.) Naama, in obsessive pursuit of consistency. From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 17 13:45:17 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:45:17 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: <91ha01+5mhv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007901c06830$0643cf00$51c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7125 We had reddish paper here and no, they are gone. They were dangerous to kids ears. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Rita Winston Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 17 december 2000 03:56 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > not to continue the american-bashing here (since i am one, after > all), but can any of you other Americans imagine having party- > favors with GUNPOWDER in them?!?!? Aren't there still cap-pistols, with a long strip of green paper with dots that go bang? In my childhood, the dots that go bang were made of gunpowder. And I have seen Christmas crackers on offer in American mail order catalogs, I think including WIRELESS and SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM. A quick search found no Web sites trying to sell me Xmas crackers, but did found the following source of information: http://www.absolutelycrackers.com/ eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 17 14:18:50 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:18:50 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Dinner in England References: <91hppu+oor5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00f001c06834$7d05e3e0$51c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7126 Yes please, send it. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Susan McGee Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 17 december 2000 08:25 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Dinner in England > > > I understand the Christmas pudding is filled with coins and charms, > > soaked in brandy and flamed. Is this correct? My experience with > > flaming food is sadly only flaming cheese--we have a large Greek > > community here. Is the concept similar? > It's a steamed pudding made ( very basic knowledge of ingredients here - > only made iot once myself ) from currants, raisins, candied fuits, > treacle ( like molasses ), sugar, suet and sugar. Plus booze. It's nice > but stodgy. > > I assume we are talking about plum pudding here? yes? with hard sauce? You can buy it, but you really need to make it a couple of months ahead with hard sauce. I will post my recipe if anyone is interested. eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 15:18:05 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:18:05 -0000 Subject: Christmas crackers - OT (was "traditions elsewhere") In-Reply-To: <91ha01+5mhv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ilfd+v6qd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7127 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > > not to continue the american-bashing here (since i am one, after > > all), but can any of you other Americans imagine having party- > > favors with GUNPOWDER in them?!?!? > > Aren't there still cap-pistols, with a long strip of green paper with > dots that go bang? In my childhood, the dots that go bang were made > of gunpowder. > Oh, we Americans have *plenty* of items with gunpowder in them. We just engage in exploding things at the opposite time of the year! :) Everyone I know indulges in fantastic (not to mention illegal in Michigan) fireworks and firecrackers during the Fourth of July (Independence Day), not to mention plenty of shooting into the air. (Chicagoans and Detroiters also shoot up on New Year's Eve, but that's another story.) Ah, late June to early July. Now, *that's* a holiday here in Southeastern Michigan... we celebrate both Canada Day and the Fourth with something called the International Freedom Festival, which is nearly two weeks of fairs and fun on both sides of the border. Largest display of fireworks on the North American continent. Loads and loads of fun. Wren, as long as we have groups like the NRA (my father was a card- carrying member, unfortunately), there will be plenty of gunpowder around. My radical leftist friend like to say that America was founded on a Bible and a gun. I tend to think there's something more to be said about us that *that*. OK, *enough* with the OT posts! Just had to respond to this one... --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 15:36:24 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:36:24 -0000 Subject: (OT) Boxing Day and CMC's Filks In-Reply-To: <91haof+8k6e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91imho+v3ki@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7128 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > However, according to my trove of obscure and not neccesarily > accurate lore, in England the servants had to work on Christmas. > (They must have had to work extra hard, to provide the party and > all its traditions for all the extended family members who gathered > at the biggest house.) Since the servants were working instead of > celebrating Christmas, their employers gave them their Christmas > presents (called 'Christmas boxes' in those days, whence the name > Boxing Day) and a day off, on the day AFTER Christmas. Presumably > the family members found it rather adventurous to feed themselves on > the leftovers from the Xmas party instead of summoning a servant to > bring them food. > > The wizard folk may never have done Boxing Day, as House Elves don't > want a day off. OK, last post about this before the listmom comes out with her hook... This is *perfect* for my fanfictional scenario. Hermione would insist on the House Elf observing Boxing Day... Ron wouldn't see the point. I needed a second marital argument scenario--this is excellent! Also, this would give my narrator (Angelina) a day to see her side of the family, as December 25 was spent at the Weasleys. Or she *would* have seen her family if there wasn't such a mess going on... never mind. Suffice it to say that it fits in quite nicely. Thanks Rita and all who responded. CMC, are you filks in the Files section? I'd love to print neat copies of those too. I *adore* Alice--she, Dorothy (of Oz fame), Laura Ingalls Wilder, and of course Anne of Green Gables are my absolute favorite characters in all of children's literature. It's coincidental, but when you mentioned the Mock Turtle I had to laugh... because the other day when I was making homemade soup I began to sing "Turtle Soup". Thank goodness no one was around! --Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 16:28:35 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:28:35 -0000 Subject: Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91ipjj+pdjg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7129 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > Waaaaah! I paid for [my Every Flavor Beans]! And I had to buy them > as sets with mugs too! This was at the WB store in a local mall. Is the mug that comes with the Every Flavor Beans the same as the nice big very dark blue mug with the Hogwarts shield of arms on it, that I bought separately, or is it a smaller mug with a black background, which is how it looks on website pictures? From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 17 16:43:08 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:43:08 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony In-Reply-To: <91i63j+mf6r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91iqes+7l4o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7130 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > BTW, It might come as a surprise to non-Jewish Americans, but > Hanukka is not an important holiday at all, really. Its been made a > lot of bc of its (completely coincidental) nearness to Christmas. It's not really a COMPLETELY coincidental nearness to Xmas: both are at times set by the Winter Solstice. I think it is no longer controversial to say that, whenever Jesus ben Joseph's birthday is, it is not in mid-winter (when shepherds are not watching their flocks in the fields by night) but the Celebration was placed then in order to compete with the Pagan celebration of Mithras's birthday on Winter Solstice. I'm afraid that it still is controversial to say that Hannukkah was adopted as a holiday in order to compete with the Persian / Zoraoastrian celebration of the Winter Solstice. How fortunate that SOME historical event (the Maccabees re-conquering the Temple, as it happens) occured at that time. But the scholars spent 1900 or so years being VERY uncomfortable about Hannukkah, because of the Maccabee connection. First, while Judaea was 'under the heavy foot' of Rome, people liked to avoid the subject of Maccabees altogether, because it was that dynasty which had INVITED Rome to intervene (as their ally against Syria). Second, after the Bar Kochkba rebellion, grown-ups did not want their children listening to stories that would encourage them to rise up against the imperial overlords in a doomed rebellion and get themselves killed. Which is why emphasizing Judah Maccabee and his brothers as successful freedom fighters throwing off colonial rulers is a very twentieth (now twenti-first) century thing. Our (our = baby boomers's) great-grandparents believed that the holiday was ONLY about the MIRACULOUS OIL. From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 17 16:46:32 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:46:32 -0000 Subject: Cracker Joke In-Reply-To: <007901c06830$0643cf00$51c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <91iql8+ickm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7131 I got a virtual cracker from the following site: http://www.absolutelycrackers.com/ The joke was: "What do you call a man with a seagull on his head?" Answer: "Bill." Can someone translate this from British into American for me? Or are cracker jokes not only bad, but pointless? -Jim Flanagan From dragonfrog at email.msn.com Sun Dec 17 16:48:21 2000 From: dragonfrog at email.msn.com (dragonfrog at email.msn.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:48:21 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Board Game Message-ID: <91iqol+i7ie@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7132 I'm curious to find out more about the HP board game, not the Trivia game, but the one based on Sorceror's Stone, which purports to be 6 or 7 games in one, each game based on one of the trials or obstacles Harry, Ron and Hermione have to pass on their way to the Stone. I was wondering if anyone out there has already purchased and played the game(s) and could report on them. Is it several games that could be played as one ongoing tournemant? Are the games original or dirivitave of classic games? Are they fun to play even as an adult? I'd appreciate any response and review. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 16:58:20 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:58:20 -0000 Subject: Cracker Joke In-Reply-To: <91iql8+ickm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91irbc+82up@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7133 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > I got a virtual cracker from the following site: > http://www.absolutelycrackers.com/ > > The joke was: "What do you call a man with a seagull on his head?" > > Answer: "Bill." > > Can someone translate this from British into American for me? Or are > cracker jokes not only bad, but pointless? > > -Jim Flanagan Hi Jim and all: I think the pun is on the man's name Bill and the seagull's bill. I agree that it's a bad joke, but I think that's the point. This was my joke-- Q: What do you get when you cross a caterpillar with a parrot? A: A walky-talky. Equally revolting in my humble opinion. But sounds like fun... especially after you've gorged on rich food and booze. It sounds like something my college roommates would have laughed over until our stomachs hurt at three o' clock in the morning or a similar ungodly hour. Actually, did any other Americans have an eerie sense of deja vu when confronted with the Christmas crackers? Now that I know what they are, I am almost certain I've run across something very similar before amongst Fourth of July items or at a long-ago carnival. Can anyone help? BTW, any speculation about wizarding Christmas crackers? --Ebony From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 18:09:12 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:09:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day References: <91h9bu+kf65@eGroups.com> <018601c067d3$fdafa140$e9b98490@EAGLE> <3A3C39A9.E57DB0A8@attglobal.net> <01d601c067eb$afa11980$e9b98490@EAGLE> <00a801c06813$134796e0$243770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <00a801c06854$767514e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7134 to the dustmen, postman, milkman etc. Nowadays, she gives it to the <<<<<<>>>>>>>> , delivery officer and dairy distributor, but she still does it. It's usually money... and in an envelope, not a box. What on earth, Neil, is that? (Another American lost in the waves of Briton terms...) Dairy Distributor--that's the Milkman, right? The father of all the babies in the local neighborhood that the mailman missed? Delivery officer????? On another point, Boxing Day here used to have a funny tale (Canton, Ohio). We were told in school it was called hence (from a stupid teacher, one who was the opposite of Ebony & Co.!) because of all the boxes and trash leftover and carted away by the trashmen (you call them dustmen, right Neil?)/garbage men. It was also called it due to all the boxes adults carried back to the store Dec 26th to return for the proper sizes, wrong colors, just something Aunt Hilda bought with no taste.... That's when I decided that answer was stupid, and started looking to find out. My honest assumption, now, as an adult? The teacher had never heard of the holiday before I pointed it out that day on the room calendar! ~LOL!~ Dee (Who is going to try to be in chat) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 17:12:43 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:12:43 -0000 Subject: Board Game, Sweatshirt, and Comic Relief In-Reply-To: <91iqol+i7ie@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91is6b+n4of@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7135 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, dragonfrog at e... wrote: > I'm curious to find out more about the HP board game, not the Trivia > game, but the one based on Sorceror's Stone, which purports to be 6 > or 7 games in one, each game based on one of the trials or obstacles > Harry, Ron and Hermione have to pass on their way to the Stone. I > was wondering if anyone out there has already purchased and played > the game(s) and could report on them. Is it several games that could > be played as one ongoing tournemant? Are the games original or > dirivitave of classic games? Are they fun to play even as an adult? > I'd appreciate any response and review. I've never heard of this one... but then again, I haven't been to the WB store since well before Thanksgiving. Will be there sometime during vacation, as I want a mug and several other items. I've gotten nothing but compliments on my snow globe, but I'd like them to release other collectibles. The minute the porcelain dolls and/or figurines are anywhere near the U.S. (I'm sure there will be collectible dolls), *please* let me know. Has anyone heard of a video game being made? If so, what system will it be released on? I imagine they'll try to coincide the release with the movie. (Next year this time, God willing, this egroup is likely going to be very busy, and many of its members very broke from adding to their collections. As much as we *say* we hate merchandising, too often the fanatic in us will override common sense;)) I don't have any of this generation of gaming systems, but I've promised myself that I will purchase whichever system a Quidditch game is released on. (They'll have to do three games, or will if they're smart: a trivia one, a fantasy/high adventure type game, and a Quidditch sports game.) Can you imagine? It'll be phenomenal! My Hogwarts crest sweatshirt (Harry Potter logo on the back) is too small for me. It's a kid's large, not an adult large... I am angry with myself for not trying it on. (At first, I had a very Harry PS/SS moment... I actually thought the darn thing had shrunk on the way home!) I have a HP item to send to Penny this week. I'd be willing to also send the sweatshirt to someone free of charge if they'll pay postage, for no one I know can use it and if I gave it to one of my students I'd be starting a riot. E-mail me privately if you are interested. Finally, will the comic relief books that JKR is publishing this spring be simultaneously released in the UK and the US? Can I pre- order online? --Ebony (who is snowed in from church and will be around most of the day making up for lost HP4GU time) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 18:18:32 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:18:32 -0600 Subject: Cap guns, OT References: <91ha01+5mhv@eGroups.com> <007901c06830$0643cf00$51c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <00b801c06855$c3e44600$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7136 I miss a rather unique device I picked up in a garage sale here locally when I was about 9-10 or so. It used rows of caps (sold in the 70's without a blink to my age group) which were on white paper here. It was a alloy material, prolly had lead in it because of the way it evidently broke (miniatures break in the same matter for those who accidentally stepped on their D&D figures after their brothers got into their rooms). The form was a rocket like shape, with a rounded tip that made the contact with the ground when you dropped it, and it had 4-tail-wings (like an old caddy, lol) on the other end. Very basic, but I loved it. A spring kept a small weight on ribbon on the contact end, which you had to use your finger to move back to slip the paper up one slot. It was kewl. Now, all we have are snakes, poppers (what we call those streamer things), barely have sparklers with all the hubbub about kids burning themselves, and Roman Candles, bottle rockets (again, dangerous in the hands of frat men....don't ask. Also, don't live in a U suburb with open windows.) The price is also increasing.... Sighs. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 18:24:59 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:24:59 -0600 Subject: WB store References: <91is6b+n4of@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00d401c06856$aaba8300$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7137 Wahhhhh. Went to the Belden Village mall to visit Santa last Tuesday, and they took out the WB store! That means I haven't a clue where the nearest local store is... Sighs. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 17 18:08:43 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:08:43 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cap guns, OT Message-ID: <74.605a719.276e5b2b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7138 In a message dated 12/17/00 12:21:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, gypsycaine at yahoo.com writes: > The form was a rocket like shape, with a rounded tip that made the contact > with the ground when you dropped it, and it had 4-tail-wings (like an old > caddy, lol) on the other end. Very basic, but I loved it. A spring kept a > small weight on ribbon on the contact end, which you had to use your finger > to move back to slip the paper up one slot. > I had the exact same thing! ::Sigh:: Gunpowder - it used to provide hours upon hours of enjoyment! -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 18:30:24 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:30:24 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Potterisms 1.03 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7139 I didnt know if any of you had read these, but i thought they were funny....and also, JK Rowling lost to Bush by 23 votes in the Time for Kids poll, "Person of the Year" Potterisms list - Version 1.03 - please send me any you hear about 1.00 - ------ At a recent Siemens development meeting, one project was called "one for the Dementors," a reference to the guards of a prison for errant wizards, because of the frightening costs involved. And at computer software giants Microsoft, employees who don't have the vision to go for daring new concepts are labelled "Muggles", or non-wizards, the Daily Record says. Office creeps are getting the nickname Draco Malfoy, after Harry Potter's arch-rival. In France ATMs are now being called Las Gringotts 1.01 - ------ Whenever someone does something really stupid, I've been known to say "Oh gawd, someone Avada Kedavra me now." - Tempesta 1.02 - ------ I've heard a mean teacher referred to as " a real Snape" - Jess Amy Lyn Gerbrandt, a 29-year-old graduate student in comparative literature at the University of California at Davis, was recently at a conference in Helsinki, where a professor was explaining that scholars should avoid letting modern ideas of right and wrong cloud their judgement of historical events. A friend leaned over during the lecture and wrote "pensieve" in Ms. Gerbrandt's notebook. Some adults have found that they had better use Potterisms with caution. After lunch at Denver's Hops Brewery one Sunday, Mary Susan Powers stood to lift her one-year-old daughter out of her highchair, and nearly knocked over a glass of iced tea. Her husband, Steve Burton, called her "so much a Neville Longbottom," after Harry Potter's klutzy friend. "She snapped back, "When you know Neville's story, you'll feel sorry. So back off." The next day, Mr. Burton finished book four on his lunch break at the janitorial company he owns. He read that Neville's awkwardness stems from the tragic fate his parents met in their heroic efforts against the Dark Arts. He felt guilty and apologized to his wife. Potterisms also can backfire if delivered to the wrong crowd. Wendy Frank, who works for a New York construction company, was late for a meeting in mid-town Manhattan because she couldn't find one dead-end street. "it's just like platform 9 3/4," she explained to blank looks from the executives she was visiting. The Potter books have given parents new tools for scolding their kids. "What do you think this is, a Quidditch match?" yelled New Yorker David Rosenthal at his seven-year-old son, who was tearing around the family's Brooklyn brownstone. Barbara Marcus, a senior executive at Scholastic Corp, wasn't having any luck getting her six-year-old daughter to return a pen that wasn't hers. "Expelliarmus," came a cry behind the bedroom door as Ms. Marcus' husband, Michael Pollack, entered the fray. By invoking the Potter spell that makes people drop what they're holding, Mr. Pollack persuaded their daughter to give up the pen. Another Potter spell helps Kris Chadderton, a 21-year-old music major at Swarthmore College, "any time I'm under pressure," she says. Before her piano recitals, she paces the halls and mutters a special spell that wards off dementors: "Expecto patronum, expecto patronum." Harry Potter works like a charm for Amy Cohen, helping the 42-year-old New Yorker find dates. In July, she posted a personal ad on several web sites and at a Manhattan coffee shop. She described herself - then added - "I idolize Harry Potter." Replies flooded in and she is now exchanging e-mail with five men who litter their messages with Potterisms. One suggested a Quidditch match for their first date. "It's funny what it's doing for my social life," Ms. Cohen says. "They're good people, Harry Potter people." 1.03 - ------ We went to the Toronto Zoo last summer and every time the kids whined or knocked on cages we said "Don't be a Dudley". - Jane My mother went to a train station about a year ago, and the platform she was looking for (platform 10 IIRC) was being worked on, and therefore hidden by scaffolding and plastic sheets. Passing platform 9, she went straight to platform 11. She suggested to a man who looked equally confused that they walk through the ticket barrier. Fortunately, the man was also a HP fan. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 18:32:32 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:32:32 -0000 Subject: Accio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91j0s0+g41n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7140 Here's another Accio question for you- (it's very nit-picky so bear with me!) When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the DE's from flying to his side? minor detail I know but this thread got me to wondering... Scott Stephanie Becvar wrote: > Simon- > > A while ago you wrote an Email about Accio being used to steal stuff....well > it CAN be used on something that isnt yours. Remember at the beginning of > GoF, Mrs. Weasley uses Accio to get all of the Ton-Tongue Toffees out of the > twins pockets. But if someone used it to steal things, they would prob be > brought before the improper use of magic board, and so i dount they would > try! > > Stephanie > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 18:37:50 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:37:50 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cracker Joke/tradespeople (OT) References: <91iql8+ickm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005501c06858$8beab740$c13770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7141 Jim said, about a cracker joke: <<>> Ebony's interpretation was correct, Jim. Cracker jokes are usually rather childish and long-in-the-tooth. The one above is a bit more modern, part of a series of "What do you call a man with a [...] on his head?" jokes, another of which being [spade]=Doug. My sides are aching... __________________________________________ Dee said: <<<< <<<<<<>>>>>>>> , delivery officer and dairy distributor, but she still does it. It's usually money... and in an envelope, not a box. What on earth, Neil, is that? (Another American lost in the waves of Briton terms...) Dairy Distributor--that's the Milkman, right? The father of all the babies in the local neighborhood that the mailman missed? Delivery officer????? >>>> Sorry, Dee. I was making a jokey point about the politically-correct names we give tradespeople these days. I made up 'dairy distributor' (i.e. milkman, er, I mean milkperson) but the other two are genuine, at least in the minds of my local town council. Hygiene engineers is what they call the dustmen (I have yet to see a dustwoman, but I'm sure they exist). I'm sure this PC trend is not confined to the British, as it reflects a move away from gender-specific terms, and it works both ways: I gather that nurses are not called Sister or Matron any more, but Charge Nurse and Head Nurse. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 17 18:44:04 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:44:04 -0000 Subject: Shameless Plug Message-ID: <91j1hk+sokf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7142 (Apologies in advance to those also subscribed to PoU... just skip this if you've gotten the ad already. Thanks! :)) After months of shameless plugs for just about every author of note in the fandom... Penny's given me permission to post a shameless plug of my own. The first chapter of my fic, "Trouble in Paradise" is now archived at fanfiction.net. It's listed as "Trouble in Paradise 01-Christmas With The Weasleys". The genre is romance. My name over there is AngieJ. Persons acknowledged here and in the author's note include my phenomenal betas (Penny, Carole, Michelle, Heidi, and Pippin), a famous author in the fandom who offered encouragement when I didn't think I could do it (Cassandra Claire), and the entire HP4GU group for the Christmas dinner--with special shouts out in the a/n to Scott, Michelle, Neil, and Penny. In this case, it took a village to raise the child... if the first chapter of this fic can be considered a kid. :) Let me know what you think! (Can you tell I'm excited?) Ebony From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 18:50:13 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:50:13 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio References: <91j0s0+g41n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006201c0685a$3130c900$c13770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7143 Scott nitpicked: > Here's another Accio question for you- > (it's very nit-picky so bear with me!) > > When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio > History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt > by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he > simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the > DE's from flying to his side? minor detail I know but this thread > got me to wondering... I would assume that one points at an object before saying "Accio!" and only names it if there are several objects in the vicinity. In the cemetery scene the Portkey was, arguably, the only portable object that could be retrieved, barring a few stones or clods of earth. I don't think the spell would work on the Death Eaters; surely it only works on inanimate objects? Refining the above slightly, I guess that Accio only works on magical objects and not on mundane background items or Muggle items. Also, I would expect the students to improve their targeting with practice, removing the need to specify items by name. Neil [Good Heavens, I think he's on-topic!] _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 18:59:34 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:59:34 -0000 Subject: Cracker Joke In-Reply-To: <91irbc+82up@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91j2em+ngm4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7144 > BTW, any speculation about wizarding Christmas crackers? > > --Ebony Tut,tut Ebony! I posted this link to an earliar message that I sent. Which, btw got no replies...Anyway I described the Wizard Christmas Crackers and what's in them etc. Message 6553- http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups/6553 Scott From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 20:50:47 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:50:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cracker Joke/tradespeople (OT) References: <91iql8+ickm@eGroups.com> <005501c06858$8beab740$c13770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <001101c0686b$11accaa0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7145 Sister? Blinks. Well, we have a few nuns who are nurses locally, but they are mostly in their upper 50's/60's... Matron? Never heard of a nurse called that. ~LOL~ "As the language progresses" I'm sure this PC trend is not confined to the British, as it reflects a move away from gender-specific terms, and it works both ways: I gather that nurses are not called Sister or Matron any more, but Charge Nurse and Head Nurse. Neil _____________________________________ BTW< noticed you changed your sign Neil! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dhill52084 at aol.com Sun Dec 17 20:28:08 2000 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:28:08 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Coloring Books, etc. Message-ID: <57.f0429f8.276e7bd8@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7146 What's FAQ please I may be dense but I am not familiar with this abbreviation. Don and Penguin Curious penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Sun Dec 17 20:33:50 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:33:50 -0000 Subject: Accio and how magic works In-Reply-To: <91j0s0+g41n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91j7ve+rpie@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7147 > When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio > History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt > by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he > simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the > DE's from flying to his side? minor detail I know but this thread > got me to wondering... I'm working on an essay about how magic works, taking into account examples from all through the canon. This is a detail I missed, but I think the answer fits right into the premise of my essay, which is this: Magic doesn't REQUIRE anything except 1) the power within the person, and 2) focus of intent. The power is inherent in anyone who is a witch or wizard, although it can exist in varying degrees of strength, from squib to powerful sorcerer. The focus is a mental thing, focusing the thoughts to create the desired effect. This focusing is not easy, but it comes easier for some people than others. The words spoken to cast a spell are essentially a way to focus the mind on the desired effect. If the caster has a disciplined- enough mind, the words are less necessary. Harry is one whose mind is particularly disciplined, and as he learns and grows, he will need less and less to use mnemonic devices like magic words to accomplish magic. Dumbledore seldom says magic words at all. This is, in a way, the development of magic as almost an art form in a person. Some spells are complex and difficult and even a powerful sorcerer will need to use the words to focus the mind. The wand, incidentally, focuses the magical energy, aiming it where it should be. Sometimes that means literally aiming the wand (for exmaple, with a Lumos spell), other times it means moving the wand in a complex pattern to create a "net" of magic in the correct frequency or pattern ("Swish and flick!"). I have a LOT more examples written down and I am fleshing this all out. When it's done, it will join two other excellent articles (not written by me) in the Lexicon as introductions to my new and improved Encyclopedia of Spells, Curses, and Charms. Please feel free to comment etc. The essay is in progress and it's always good to get input on something like this. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Dec 17 20:38:48 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:38:48 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise Message-ID: <63.f389498.276e7e58@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7148 In a message dated 12/17/2000 11:30:29 AM EST, catlady at wicca.net writes: << Is the mug that comes with the Every Flavor Beans the same as the nice big very dark blue mug with the Hogwarts shield of arms on it, that I bought separately, or is it a smaller mug with a black background, which is how it looks on website pictures? >> It's the smaller mug with the black background. I'd much rather have the nice big very dark blue one! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From dhill52084 at aol.com Sun Dec 17 20:55:15 2000 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:55:15 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: <80.4630fc5.276e8233@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7149 Right itis on the third book they are rescued by the bird and it shows on the cover Hermoine holding tightly to Harry and riding the bird. Don and Penguinie Bibliophile penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 17 20:56:05 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:56:05 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Coloring Books, etc. References: <57.f0429f8.276e7bd8@aol.com> Message-ID: <002901c0686b$c69c5f20$e6c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7150 Frequently Asked Questions. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: dhill52084 at aol.com Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 17 december 2000 21:28 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Coloring Books, etc. What's FAQ please I may be dense but I am not familiar with this abbreviation. Don and Penguin Curious penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 17 20:58:49 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:58:49 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise References: <63.f389498.276e7e58@aol.com> Message-ID: <003101c0686c$28445f20$e6c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7151 I would love one of those mugs, does anyone know if they ship to Europe? I haven't seen one single item of HP merchandise here yet! catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: mlleelizabeth at aol.com Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 17 december 2000 21:38 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise In a message dated 12/17/2000 11:30:29 AM EST, catlady at wicca.net writes: << Is the mug that comes with the Every Flavor Beans the same as the nice big very dark blue mug with the Hogwarts shield of arms on it, that I bought separately, or is it a smaller mug with a black background, which is how it looks on website pictures? >> It's the smaller mug with the black background. I'd much rather have the nice big very dark blue one! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dhill52084 at aol.com Sun Dec 17 21:03:37 2000 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:03:37 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: <55.eda80dc.276e8429@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7152 Sorry about that it is the third book and the person is Ginny, Mea Culpa. It is Ginny who is rescued and is holding tightly to Harry. Don and Penguinie Embarrassed Penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sun Dec 17 21:12:12 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:12:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cracker Joke/tradespeople (OT) Message-ID: <20001217211212.29432.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7153 --- Denise Rohleder skrev: > Sister? [snip] > Matron? > > Never heard of a nurse called that. > It is/was the title for the head-nurse at hospitals (normally a stern woman with whom even the doctors dare not argue). Certainly, that is what I gathered from the Australian soap 'A Country Practise' (Aired in Norway over a period of 7 years). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sun Dec 17 21:19:49 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:19:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio Message-ID: <20001217211949.29983.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7154 --- Neil Ward skrev: > Scott nitpicked: [snip] > I would assume that one points at an object before saying "Accio!" > and only names it if there are several objects in the vicinity. But when Mrs. Weasley did repeated "Accio!" on the ton-tongue-toffees and other inventions of the Weasleys in the Weasley-kitchen - would she risk ripping the clothes of the twins if they happened to be wearing clothes with magical properties? > In the cemetery scene the Portkey was, arguably, the only portable > object that could be retrieved, barring a few stones or clods of > earth. I don't think the spell would work on the Death Eaters; > surely it only works on inanimate objects? We learn in GoF, when they practise banishing-charms, that it works on humans (Neville missed his pillow, instead hitting Professor Flitwick, who flew across the classroom landing on top of a cupboard). I would suspect that banishing and summoning works on the same basic theory, but applying it differently - thus summoning will work on people when banishing works on people. I think this is probably more a question about the ability to focus your thoughts - the words uttered are most likely only a tool to help focus. Do take note - a banishing-charm, when used on a human, could be used very easily to murder someone (push them of a cliff, for instance). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Dec 17 21:19:50 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:19:50 -0000 Subject: Beacham book Message-ID: <91jalm+i6en@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7155 Hi, I tried to off-list e-mail Heidi but it was returned to me forthwith, so bear with the list mailing! I would like to have a go at the Beacham book myself. I vaguely recall raising my hand, so to speak, when the idea of sharing it first came up in conversation, but never heard anything of it. My latent English major tendencies are chomping at the bit! BTW, Welcome Back, Ebony! Trina From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 17 21:49:07 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:49:07 -0800 Subject: Demand a recount! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001217134624.00d587f0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7156 At 12:30 PM 12/17/00 -0600, Stephanie Becvar wrote: >I didnt know if any of you had read these, but i thought they were >funny....and also, JK Rowling lost to Bush by 23 votes in the Time for Kids >poll, "Person of the Year" It's those Butterfly Ballots again! (It would explain those kiddies who passionately cast their vote for South Korean President Kim Dae-jung.) -- Dave From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 17 21:45:05 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:45:05 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio References: <20001217211949.29983.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004301c06872$9ee2d480$e6c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7157 There could be different spells for summoning people or things. Does anyone know? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Christian Stub? Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 17 december 2000 22:19 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio --- Neil Ward skrev: > Scott nitpicked: [snip] > I would assume that one points at an object before saying "Accio!" > and only names it if there are several objects in the vicinity. But when Mrs. Weasley did repeated "Accio!" on the ton-tongue-toffees and other inventions of the Weasleys in the Weasley-kitchen - would she risk ripping the clothes of the twins if they happened to be wearing clothes with magical properties? > In the cemetery scene the Portkey was, arguably, the only portable > object that could be retrieved, barring a few stones or clods of > earth. I don't think the spell would work on the Death Eaters; > surely it only works on inanimate objects? We learn in GoF, when they practise banishing-charms, that it works on humans (Neville missed his pillow, instead hitting Professor Flitwick, who flew across the classroom landing on top of a cupboard). I would suspect that banishing and summoning works on the same basic theory, but applying it differently - thus summoning will work on people when banishing works on people. I think this is probably more a question about the ability to focus your thoughts - the words uttered are most likely only a tool to help focus. Do take note - a banishing-charm, when used on a human, could be used very easily to murder someone (push them of a cliff, for instance). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub? Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p? http://no.photos.yahoo.com eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 17 21:55:26 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:55:26 -0800 Subject: YuleBall@egroups.com?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001217135250.00d55860@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7158 At 12:30 PM 12/17/00 -0600, Stephanie Becvar wrote: >Harry Potter works like a charm for Amy Cohen, helping the 42-year-old New >Yorker find dates. In July, she posted a personal ad on several web sites >and at a Manhattan coffee shop. She described herself - then added - "I >idolize Harry Potter." > >Replies flooded in and she is now exchanging e-mail with five men who litter >their messages with Potterisms. One suggested a Quidditch match for their >first date. "It's funny what it's doing for my social life," Ms. Cohen says. >"They're good people, Harry Potter people." Maybe we should start a group for single Harry fans to meet...? -- Dave From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 17 22:05:11 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:05:11 -0000 Subject: HP Cracker Jokes Message-ID: <91jdan+ubkn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7159 I've discovered that the Beacham book is a wonderful source for HP- related Cracker jokes. For example: "Pettigrew's missing finger symbolizes his inability to make his point." Can you think of others? They don't have to be in the Beacham book -- you can make them up yourself, though it would be hard to top the example above. -JF From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 22:07:15 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:07:15 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio References: <20001217211949.29983.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01c06875$d7365b60$dd3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7160 Christian said: > We learn in GoF, when they practise banishing-charms, that it works on > humans (Neville missed his pillow, instead hitting Professor Flitwick, > who flew across the classroom landing on top of a cupboard). I would > suspect that banishing and summoning works on the same basic theory, > but applying it differently - thus summoning will work on people when > banishing works on people. [truncated] I'm not sure I agree with that. I'd say a banishing charm is likely to be an aggressive spell whilst summoning would be used mainly for acquisition (although both could be for the purposes of protection). In a combat situation banishing someone would surely be more useful than summoning them, i.e. you'd want to push or hurl your adversary away from you. On the other hand, summoning inanimate objects, such as weapons, would be more useful than banishing them. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sun Dec 17 22:27:05 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:27:05 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] WB store Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7161 In a message dated 12/17/2000 9:31:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, gypsycaine at yahoo.com writes: << Wahhhhh. Went to the Belden Village mall to visit Santa last Tuesday, and they took out the WB store! That means I haven't a clue where the nearest local store is... Sighs. >> I can tell you. E-mail me with where you are and I'll give you a close location and phone number. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sun Dec 17 22:28:46 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:28:46 EST Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise Message-ID: <3f.e1c7566.276e981e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7162 In a message dated 12/17/2000 1:09:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, sara.ludwig at telia.com writes: << I would love one of those mugs, does anyone know if they ship to Europe? I haven't seen one single item of HP merchandise here yet! >> There are WB stores overseas if you can find them. They are very scarce. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Dec 17 22:39:34 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 17 Dec 2000 14:39:34 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: <20001217223934.14652.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7163 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Yaz at good.co.uk Sun Dec 17 22:41:13 2000 From: Yaz at good.co.uk (Yaz) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:41:13 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cracker Joke References: <91iql8+ickm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <031b01c0687a$765d51e0$216c073e@merchantbtinternet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7164 > The joke was: "What do you call a man with a seagull on his head?" > > Answer: "Bill." > > Can someone translate this from British into American for me? Or are > cracker jokes not only bad, but pointless? Hiyas :-) Yeah, cracker jokes are notoriously rubbish, but this one is wrong - the answer should be Cliff! (OK, so it's still not exactly hilarious, but at least it makes sense...) My favourite of those jokes was "What do you call a children's writer balancing a pint of Guinness on her head and making bowls out of clay?" Answer: Beatrix Potter *GROAN* Seeyas Yaz :-) From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 17 22:56:28 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:56:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio References: <91j0s0+g41n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D449C.936A79AF@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7165 Scott wrote: > Here's another Accio question for you- > (it's very nit-picky so bear with me!) > > When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio > History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt > by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he > simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the > DE's from flying to his side? minor detail I know but this thread > got me to wondering... > > Scott A very good question, Scott, and one that hadn't occurred to me. Here's one possible answer, off the cuff . . . Harry has only seen one-way portkeys. Remember, when they used the portkey to get to the World Quidditch Match, it was tossed into a box with other "used" portkeys. He may have simply assumed (although Rowling doesn't say) that all portkeys were one way, and therefore it wouldn't do him any good to touch the cup. He doesn't try for the cup at all until his parent's ghost (either Lily or James, whichever version you're reading) tells him that the cup will return him to Hogwarts. Well? Sound convincing? Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Dec 17 23:05:28 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:05:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio References: <91j0s0+g41n@eGroups.com> <3A3D449C.936A79AF@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <3A3D46B8.1FC5305A@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7166 Peg Kerr wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > Here's another Accio question for you- > > (it's very nit-picky so bear with me!) > > > > When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio > > History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt > > by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he > > simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the > > DE's from flying to his side? minor detail I know but this thread > > got me to wondering... > > > > Scott > > A very good question, Scott, and one that hadn't occurred to me. Here's > one possible answer, off the cuff . . . > > > > Well? Sound convincing? Ack. Upon re-reading, I see that I was answering a question you weren't asking. I was answering "Why didn't he try to retrieve the cup with the 'Accio' spell?" rather than what you asked, which was "Why didn't he specify 'Accio portkey' when he called the cup to himself?" Looks like Neil and Steve have tried to answer (your question, not mine). I blame pre-Christmas stress, and I think I'd better quit while I'm behind and go back to addressing Christmas cards. Peg From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 17 23:59:31 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:59:31 -0000 Subject: Vol-de-mort (was SV: Re: pronunciations In-Reply-To: <001101c067a6$65693680$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <91jk13+iu8f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7167 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > > In French, vol = flight or vol = theft > > This gives us the possibilities: > > 1)Flight from Death (he is striving for immortality) > > 2)Flight of Death (and where he lands, he kills someone) > > 3)Theft from Death (he is stealing immortality/life from death) > > 4)Theft of Death (by killing all those people, he is stealing > > Death's privilege of ending their lives at the appointed time) > > My apologies if I've missed some relevant posts on this, but what about > "Vol" as a derivative of the latinate "volo." I think it's something like > *vouloir* in French, *vuolere* in Italian. Hence, Voldemort > is "Desire of Death" or "Death Wish." I have always just assumed that was > the derivation. > > Or, of course, since "vol" is also an abbr. of volume, perhaps Voldemort > could be construed as "Volume of Death." > A couple of other penumbras resonating about the name of Y-K-W: according to Webster's "Vole" is "any of the various burrowing rodents of the genus Arvicola, including the European field mouse and the North American meadow mouse." This introduction of a rodent motif into Voldy's otherwise serpentine profile would perhaps explain in part his affinity for Wormtail. Another Webster definition of "Vole", this one deriving from the French: "in card games, the winning of all the tricks in a deal; a slam. TO GO THE VOLE: to risk everything in the hope of great gain." That does sound like a gambit Voldemort would persue! - CMC From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 00:29:04 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:29:04 -0000 Subject: Truths in the Wizarding World Message-ID: <91jlog+conb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7168 Hi, everyone--think this'll be my last post for the day. After reading all four books, what would you consider indisputable truths in the wizarding world? I'm making a list of them... and I need help. Here's what I have so far: All mail-?letters and parcels--are delivered by owl post. Period. Hogwarts is the school for magical children who live in the United Kingdom (and Ireland, according to JKR). Harry Potter is the Boy Who Lived. I'd like to isolate about 5-10 more. Thanks in advance! --Ebony From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Dec 18 01:35:46 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:35:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] WB store References: Message-ID: <015c01c06892$d8f93ae0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7169 Canton Ohio! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: hedwigthecat at aol.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] WB store In a message dated 12/17/2000 9:31:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, gypsycaine at yahoo.com writes: << Wahhhhh. Went to the Belden Village mall to visit Santa last Tuesday, and they took out the WB store! That means I haven't a clue where the nearest local store is... Sighs. >> I can tell you. E-mail me with where you are and I'll give you a close location and phone number. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Dec 18 00:53:44 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:53:44 -0000 Subject: Chat Message-ID: <005e01c0688c$f9ac4260$df3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7170 Hmmm. I didn't mean to make *quite* such a rapid exit from the chatroom today. The window froze and then the computer stuck a few "talk to the handshake 'cause the interface ain't listenin'" signs in my face. Muggle technology - who'd want it? I'm still getting used to Cheetachat, which (a) doesn't let me write more than 10 or so words at a time, (b) tries to disconnect me on a regular basis (I would assume it was my phone connection, but I never had these problems with Yahoo). Of course, some might thank Cheetachat for developing these two anti-Neil spells, but anyone had similar problems? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 18 01:03:48 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:03:48 -0500 Subject: OT - crackers References: <91heiv+g0bq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D6274.FDECB788@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7171 Adding Pottery Barn to the list of Stores With Crackers - theirs are silver & gold, so they could be used for Chanukah celebrations as well (unless they have Xmassy things inside, but I don'tknow the answer to that...) Trina wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > > > > And I have seen Christmas crackers on offer in American mail order > > catalogs, I think including WIRELESS and SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM. A > quick > > search found no Web sites trying to sell me Xmas crackers, but did > > found the following source of information: > > http://www.absolutelycrackers.com/ > > Pier 1 Imports have crackers as well, even here in my little South > Carolina town. Also Lands' End catalog (and maybe the website) sells > them. > > Trina (who has delurked with a vengence tonight!) > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 18 01:04:03 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:04:03 -0500 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Sorta OT: Re: LOTR Publication history References: <91cdm3+7f86@eGroups.com> <01cf01c066f9$89966a80$99c016c2@pnxpg> <3A3B1C63.C5858611@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <3A3D6283.8EABD6E@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7172 Sorry I'm so late with my response to this: Peg Kerr wrote: > Sara Ludwig wrote: > > > It may be no error at all. If the copyright rules are still the same as when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Ring then the author must change some words for the American edition!! > > catrina > > > > A fuller explanation: From Humphrey Carpenter's _Tolkien: A Biography_ here's a little of the history of that: > > Sales of _The Hobbit_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ continued to rise steadily, but there was no drastic change in the pattern until 1965. Early in that year it was learnt that an > American publisher who appeared not to suffer from an excess of scruples was planning to issue an unauthorized paperback edition of the _The Lord of the Rings_, almost certainly > without paying royalties to Tolkien. Because of the confused state of American copyright at that time, the publisher doubtless thought that he could do this with impunity. . . The > only way to save the situation was for Tolkien's authorized American publishers, Houghton Mifflin, to issue their own paperback as quickly as possible, and this they planned to do, > in collaboration with Ballantine Books. But in order to register this new edition as copyright, they would have to make a number of textual changes so that the book was technically > "new." > > I'm not sure if this "confused state of American copyright" so referenced is the same? Heidi? Basically, in 1965, the Copyright Act stated that if a work was published withouth proper copyright notice, or was published but not registered, copyright protection didn't vest in the work (this changed in 1978) so if LOTR was published without proper notice, it was uncopyrighted, and part of the public domain, the same way Dickens, Austin and Twain novels are, but they are public domain because they were published so long ago that their copyright period has ended. However, by changing portions of the text, as it seems they did with LOTR, they created a new work, which was a derivative of the "original" LOTR, and could obtian a copyright registration for this "derivative" work. Nothing to do with the americanization of britishisms. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Dec 18 02:21:29 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:21:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT - Heidi, I was hoping to see you in chat today... References: <91heiv+g0bq@eGroups.com> <3A3D6274.FDECB788@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <01ca01c06899$3c0c54e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7173 Would you get in touch with me at your first convenience? Thanks! Dee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Dec 18 01:23:26 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:23:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT - Heidi, I was hoping to see you in chat today... References: <91heiv+g0bq@eGroups.com> <3A3D6274.FDECB788@alumni.upenn.edu> <01ca01c06899$3c0c54e0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <3A3D670E.88024F9A@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7174 hi - sorry I missed chat - we were having a hanuka party & I am now catching up on my emails... Denise Rohleder wrote: > Would you get in touch with me at your first convenience? > > Thanks! > > Dee > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Dec 18 02:25:35 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:25:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat References: <005e01c0688c$f9ac4260$df3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <01d801c06899$ce9db1a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7175 Nope, Neil, I stayed on with a phone connection (shock shock) from beginning to end, no problems. Cheeta hasn't acted like that since Y-Chat was the predominant chat method (maybe we should switch you to Y-chat? It's a bit older, prolly a bit dusty and I'll have to hunt up a url, but it might work better for you. And only 10 words? I can do whole paragraphs with CC. It's being weird on you.... What kind of system do you use? kHz, gig, ram, etc? and I know you use the "dreaded" BT! grins. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: Harry Potter for Grown Ups Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 6:53 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat Hmmm. I didn't mean to make *quite* such a rapid exit from the chatroom today. The window froze and then the computer stuck a few "talk to the handshake 'cause the interface ain't listenin'" signs in my face. Muggle technology - who'd want it? I'm still getting used to Cheetachat, which (a) doesn't let me write more than 10 or so words at a time, (b) tries to disconnect me on a regular basis (I would assume it was my phone connection, but I never had these problems with Yahoo). Of course, some might thank Cheetachat for developing these two anti-Neil spells, but anyone had similar problems? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:00:01 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:00:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious) References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> <3A3B7251.7508F9DE@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A3D7DB1.85CC93C9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7176 Um, not to spoil the mood, but have the Weasleys gotten a bit more financially solvent? How can they afford such a sumptious spread as you plan? --Amanda From catlady at wicca.net Mon Dec 18 03:07:18 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:07:18 -0000 Subject: Chat In-Reply-To: <005e01c0688c$f9ac4260$df3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <91jv16+47mr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7177 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > I'm still getting used to Cheetachat, which (a) doesn't let me write more than 10 or so words at a time, (b) tries to disconnect me on a regular basis (I would assume it was my phone connection, but I never had these problems with Yahoo). You've seen what LONG msgs I type with Cheetachat. Today, I typed much faster than the letters appeared in the type-it-here window, and the cursor dashed back and forth while the letters did appear, but I think that was because my own PC was kind of busy with a radio show I was listening to. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Dec 18 03:10:00 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:10:00 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner (cheap?) References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> <3A3B7251.7508F9DE@swbell.net> <3A3D7DB1.85CC93C9@texas.net> Message-ID: <001401c068a0$02f8f4e0$943570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7178 Amanda said: > Um, not to spoil the mood, but have the Weasleys gotten a bit more > financially solvent? How can they afford such a sumptious spread as you > plan? They could grow the vegetables themselves and raise turkeys and chickens. The Burrow strikes me as that sort of place. I wonder if they would eat magical animals and vegetables? How about Roasted Blast-Ended Skrewt in Bobotuber sauce with sauted Gillyweed as a festive alternative? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:11:59 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:11:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Norwegian Christmas-food (was Re: Christmas Dinner in England (long and tedious), and is now longer and more tedious) References: <20001216144847.8060.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A3D807F.7D001FF8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7179 Christian Stub wrote: > I am > trying to remember if smalahove is served for Christmas (take half a > sheep-head, scorch off the wool, clean out brain, etc., but keep the > eyes, boil for 6 hours and eat), but I think it is. This is either to make the lutefisk look good, or to keep costs down by ensuring no one eats much. > More normal Christmas-dishes will include pork-rib, with > medister-sausage and medister-patties (medister is a 50/50-blend of > minced beef and minced pork), with boiled potatoes, carrots, peas and > cauliflower; and poached cod, with boiled potatoes, carrots and > Sandefjor-butter; and stick-meat, which is a name for salted and dried > ribs of mutton, which are boiled, served with boiled potatoes and > mashed swedes. The name stems for the use of birch-sticks being placed > in the bottom of the pot to keep the ribs from touching bottom and get > burnt. Is there a general shortage of anything but large saucepans, or do they simply like everything boiled? > I swear, I did not make up anything of the above! Swedes, or Swedish > turnips, are known in the US as rutabagers, I believe. Cool! I've long wondered what swedes were, after a reference to them in "Watership Down." > Christmas dinner is served on christmas-eve, at 5pm. At noon, meny > have rice-porridge for lunch. A well-known custom is to hide an almond > in one of the servings, and whoever finds it will get a treat (normally > marsipan shaped as a pig) - its a bit like the silver-coin in the > Christmas-pudding. I was pressed into service on the 23rd one year to make 12 little marzipan pigs, by a friend of mine whose maiden name was Anderssen. Aha. The main Christmas event for Poles is Wigilia, the Christmas eve dinner; interesting that both cultures have a dinner on Christmas eve. Wigilia is traditionally meatless. Thanks for such a vivid window into Christmas in Norway. If we did anything remarkable in Texas, I'd reciprocate, but mostly we stand around in T-shirts and barbeque anything that stands still long enough. Sigh. --Amanda From catlady at wicca.net Mon Dec 18 03:17:02 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:17:02 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys In-Reply-To: <3A3D7DB1.85CC93C9@texas.net> Message-ID: <91jvje+5ntv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7180 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Um, not to spoil the mood, but have the Weasleys gotten a bit more > financially solvent? How can they afford such a sumptious spread as > you plan? Are the wizard folk able to magic up raw ingredients? Like white sauce dribbling out of the wand (which always seems Freudian to me). The turkey and/or the ham could be Xmas bonusses from Arthur's and Percy's jobs at the Ministry, the veggies could have been grown in Mrs. Weasley's kitchen garden. Eggs and chicken flesh from the chickens that Harry saw scratching in the yard. If all the young-uns got jobs to support themselves, the Weasleys would be more financially solvent than with five or even four dependent children. If Fred and George's joke shop is a big success, the family could be rolling in money. From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:19:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:19:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shocked and Apalled!! References: Message-ID: <3A3D823E.18B7DAA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7181 Ye gods, Stephanie, where are you? I'm just south of San Antonio, and haven't heard any furor. --Amanda Stephanie Becvar wrote: > Be Forewarned: Angry Rant to Follow > > I live in Texas, and sometimes i am extremely disappointed to say that here, > people live up to a bible banging hick stereotype. In a school district > near me, October brought up a nasty fight between district administrators > and parents. What were they fighting over, you ask? > The Harry Potter books of course! MANY parents who had refused to allow > their children to read them "based upon witchcraft and wizardry and magic" > were complaining about the availibility of the books at school. So what did > the district do? They banned the books from the library. Also, while yes, > if your parent permits you to read the book, you may bring it in, BUT the > kids arent allowed to talk about the book or lend them to each other. > Parents were also petitioning for the adding of a non-Harry potter > merchandise to the dress code etc, aka no Harry Potter notebooks or tshirts > etc. When i saw the parents complaining, it was before i had read the > books. I said, well, ok i guess that makes sense. Then i read the books. > I mean, they obviously celebrate christmas and easter dont they? They fight > the evil dark forces dont they? I mean, they portray the FAIRY TALE version > of a witch, not the new crap we are subjected to today where i walk down the > halls and see people in all black claiming to be satanists. I can not even > begin to state my anger, banning books, flashback to the 50s > much?!?!?!?!?!?! > While yes, i will say that the books may not be appropriate for children of > some ages. My electronics teacher was telling me that his wife reads the > books aloud to his kids (who are 6 and 8 but LOVE th books) and leaves out > things she does not feel they are ready for...aka violence....bad > language....and specifics about torture, and fills in gaps with toned down > versions of the material. But i mean, these people are acting out on > religious grounds and this makes me wonder if they have even READ the books. > I would call myself fairly religous(I am lutheran not that it is > important) and the books dont bother me AT ALL....Anyways...to end m rant, i > am shocked and appalled at this act and wonder when people will realize that > fiction is fiction, that their 9 year old will want to fight the bad > side....i mean, kids KNOW that Magic doesnt exsist as well as grown ups do. > Maybe more so. I can not tell you the innumerable conversations my mother > had while decorating the Christmas tree, using about 30 strings of lights, > pretainging to our wish for a wand and an "Attatchio" spell to make our > lives that much easier. Thanks for listening and let me know if you think > that the administrators were within hteir rights to do so. > > Stephanie, The Shocked > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:22:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:22:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hippogriff: was Oscar Wilde connection? References: <91h8mn+2lo3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D82FA.832652C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7182 About griffins, I can add that they were thought to combine the noblest of two worlds--the lord of the air and the lord of the land, by combining an eagle and a lion. Sort of the logic that gets people to take too many vitamins...if a little is good, then more should be....etc. Hippogriffs aren't as old, are discussed in my heraldry books as medieval charges, but said books are in the room with the lightly sleeping sick baby. Sorry. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:26:44 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:26:44 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape and the Map References: <91hgob+pgo2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D83F3.854CD737@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7183 eliasberg at ioc.net wrote: > Snape saw lupin running out, but the 5 others (H,H,R,S,P) were > already in the Shrieking Shack and therefore off the map. As it > stated earlier in PoA you can see the passages leave the map, > but you don't know where they end. We had some discussion about this a few weeks ago--did you look in the archives? There were some ingenious explanations offered. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:32:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:32:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: saftey in america References: <01C06862.58148F40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A3D853A.A4C41F80@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7184 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Huh? We are talking about the same country as the one where lots of people for > not apparent reason keep lots of guns and knives and stuff aren't we? I guess > 'keeping the citizens safe' has many interpretations Well, aside from making hunting waaaay easier, the precision and craftsmanship of the guns we own are a big factor. Our swords and other sharp implements aren't High Quality, but again, the balance and symmetry and beauty are inherent. Tis a matter of taste. And did anyone else ever hear/read, so can identify what I'm talking about, some piece that described inventions and their probability of being okayed for production and sale to the public under today's laws? They were things like bicycles, cars, etc. It was almost too true to be funny. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:35:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:35:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony References: <91iqes+7l4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D8615.71E5B817@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7185 Rita Winston wrote: > It's not really a COMPLETELY coincidental nearness to Xmas: both are > at times set by the Winter Solstice. I think it is no longer > controversial to say that, whenever Jesus ben Joseph's birthday is, > it is not in mid-winter (when shepherds are not watching their flocks > in the fields by night) but the Celebration was placed then in order > to compete with the Pagan celebration of Mithras's birthday on Winter > Solstice. I also had heard a theory that they placed it near the Mithran celebration to disguise their own observances, in the days of persecution. Got no reference, just a dim memory of reading this someplace. --Amanda From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 03:38:53 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:38:53 -0000 Subject: Mystery parallels Message-ID: <91k0sd+brb1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7186 Has anyone ever discussed the way that the Potter books seem to work kind of like mysteries in that there's often some sort of crime or shady activity going around, with the true culprit later being exposed. It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). Has anyone ever anticipated the twist? (I never have, at least so far). Charmian From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:46:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:46:34 -0600 Subject: More stuff Message-ID: <3A3D889A.7664CB4E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7187 I saw the HP Potions kits at the mall yesterday, in World of Science. There was a larger one, with what looked like a little plastic cauldron and various jars of ingredients, and which made four end products (one was troll boogers; don't recall the rest); the other was a smaller kit, no cauldron, and was a hydration experiment (made water appear and disappear or something). Anyone else seen these? I also saw a pretty cool Christmas stocking in a catalog. All these are apparently blessed by the Warner gods, but are marketed in other venues. --Amanda From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Dec 18 03:46:39 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:46:39 -0000 Subject: Mystery parallels In-Reply-To: <91k0sd+brb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91k1av+1ros@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7188 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > > > Has anyone ever discussed the way that the Potter books seem to work > kind of like mysteries in that there's often some sort of crime or > shady activity going around, with the true culprit later being > exposed. It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's > always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem > later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). > Has anyone ever anticipated the twist? (I never have, at least so > far). > > Charmian Cherchez le DADA teacher! From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:48:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:48:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: Message-ID: <3A3D88F6.E1948C37@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7189 wren lanier wrote: > sometimes i hate being an american. there's no fun in it. Console yourself. You could be a Texan. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 03:49:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:49:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: Message-ID: <3A3D893A.C84D154B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7190 morine10 at aol.com wrote: > "I want an official Red Rider carbine action 200 shot range model air rifle." > -Ralphie, A Christmas Story "You'll shoot your eye out!" -Ralphie's mom, Ralphie's teacher, Santa,...A Christmas Story From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Dec 18 03:54:09 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:54:09 -0000 Subject: Christmas in Texas & North Carolina - OT Message-ID: <91k1p1+mah5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7191 I remember Christmas at my grandparents' house near New Braunfels, Texas. There are many Germans and Slavs in central Texas whose ancestors came over in the 1850s. As late as the 1960s, people of my grandparents' generation spoke German among themselves. There's still a hint of an accent among the younger generations. Anyway, here's what I remember about Texas/German Christmas: Lots of food - turkey, ham, lots of different vegetables -- green beans with almonds, cooked squash or pumpkin, buttered flat noodles, whipped potatoes with gravy, white bread-based dressing, maybe chicken soup. Store-bought whitebread dinner rolls or sliced white bread :P were more common than home-made breads. Drinks included alcoholic or nonalcoholic eggnog, iced tea, creme soda (fuer die kinder). Dessert included angelfood cake, fruit cobbler or pie, and/or German chocolate cake; always plenty of christmas cookies. Presents were opened on Christmas eve. My father's family was Scotch/Irish from East of Dallas. The main difference in Christmas dinner was that the dressing (stuffing) was sage/cornbread (yum!), and usually included a jello/fruit salad. There were fireworks shows around Christmas. I heard that this tradition was related to Confederate Independence day (?). Never heard of Crackers, though. My wife's family in NC, also Scotch/Irish, includes collard greens and field peas (a.k.a. blackeyed peas) in their Christmas "dinner". Jim Flanagan From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 04:03:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:03:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] [Fwd: Re: Hogwarts crests (sic)] References: <91h631+v05p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D8CA6.9573252C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7192 Rita Winston wrote: > Is this another complaint against the vile and loathsome artist of > the wall calendar? It was more a complaint against anyone who has departed from the attractive and authentic-looking heraldry of the book, and substituted this modern-look garbage. > I'll add my voice to the clamor of those who say that Ravenclaw's > mascot should be a Raven (possible perching on a pallid bust of > Pallas) rather than an eagle. Ahem. The mascot can be anything. Their armorial charge is an eagle. > Altho' it is possible that Gruffydd Glndwr DID choose to bear a lion as > his sign, and not change it to match the names the Sais gave him... > [Gruffydd Glndwr is my theory.] I'm betting the arms were attributed, at an early date (arms = heraldic device, coat of arms, usually incorrectly called a "crest"). Attributed armory is a coat of arms made up long after the fact for a pre-heraldic-period person. An example: Adam & Eve. They were not around during the period when people were doing heraldry, but it was inconceiveable that people of such note would not have had armory (a mark of the upper classes). Therefore, they *must* have had arms, so people gave them some. Other examples are a few of the Nine Worthies. They were examples of various virtues, broken into the Three Good Jews, Three Good Heathens, and Three Good Christians (I think that's right). They were (thinks hard) King David, Judas Maccabeus, , Hector of Troy, ......., King Arthur, Charlemagne. Sorry for the gaps, my books are in the baby's room. My mind's going, I actually had to make banners of all these, I used to know all the blazons, much less the names! The point being that only a couple of these coats of arms have even a toehold in actuality; the other coats were bestowed upon the bearer in retrospect. Did that make sense? Anyway, since Hogwarts was founded before the regular system of true heraldry really got going, I'm betting the arms are attributed. And the lion was the A-plus, bestest, butchest animal possible. The king of beasts. The eagle was his counterpart, the king of birds. So they were the most honorable choices to make. > As bronze, despite being an Olympic medal, is not a heraldic metal, > not even a heraldic color, not even a color which by another name is > a heraldic color. So wouldn't they HAVE to depict a bronze object > as or? If they were paying even an iota of attention, yes. Or, for you who have lives, is the heraldic term for gold. More rambling available at the slightest breath of interest. Be careful. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 04:05:16 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:05:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas Dinner (cheap?) References: <91eqgp+huh8@eGroups.com> <007901c06759$bf49a9c0$b83570c2@c5s910j> <3A3B7251.7508F9DE@swbell.net> <3A3D7DB1.85CC93C9@texas.net> <001401c068a0$02f8f4e0$943570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A3D8CFB.1A553F9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7193 Neil Ward wrote: > They could grow the vegetables themselves and raise turkeys and chickens. > The Burrow strikes me as that sort of place. I wonder if they would eat > magical animals and vegetables? How about Roasted Blast-Ended Skrewt in > Bobotuber sauce with sauted Gillyweed as a festive alternative? I'll take the lutefisk, thanks. Or that other thing that made haggis sound good. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 04:07:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:07:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mystery parallels References: <91k0sd+brb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3D8D8D.79F6EAC9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7194 Charmian wrote: > Has anyone ever discussed the way that the Potter books seem to work > kind of like mysteries in that there's often some sort of crime or > shady activity going around, with the true culprit later being > exposed. It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's > always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem > later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). My first description of the books to my husband was as "fair mysteries," meaning ones where you actually can figure it out, you are given the facts you need. Not to be confused with the ones where you find out the vital clue *after* the solution is revealed, which only piss me off. So yes, I've seen the parallel, and yes, I've wondered if it will be such a consistent pattern that it doesn't work as well. --Amanda From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 04:25:30 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:25:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7195 >Scott nitpicked: > > > Here's another Accio question for you- > > (it's very nit-picky so bear with me!) > > > > When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio > > History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt > > by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he > > simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the > > DE's from flying to his side? minor detail I know but this thread > > got me to wondering... Mt guess would be that when you get really good at it, you only have to think about what it is. Harry was learning so he had to be specific, but by the 3rd task he was good at it. I mean, Mrs. Wealey only said Accio to get the ton-tongue toffees..... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 04:33:03 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:33:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shocked and Apalled!! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7196 I am north of houston, in the woodlands, but the problem was in some school in san jacinto ISD...I think..... >Ye gods, Stephanie, where are you? I'm just south of San Antonio, and >haven't >heard any furor. > >--Amanda _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 04:36:56 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:36:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Apparating Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7197 I have read the HP series over and over, prob coming on about 10 times, and I have looked it up, but i still dont know the dif between apparating and disapparating. I though dis. was to go back from where you started, but mr weasley talks about disapparating to work one morning. If someone could help me feel less stupid i would appreciate it a lot! Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 04:41:31 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:41:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mystery parallels Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7198 >Has anyone ever discussed the way that the Potter books seem to work >kind of like mysteries in that there's often some sort of crime or >shady activity going around, with the true culprit later being >exposed. It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's >always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem >later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). >Has anyone ever anticipated the twist? (I never have, at least so >far). > >Charmian Actually, I got the pattern in book 1, mainly bc i am used to books with a twist, and i noticed Prf Quirrell was everywhere, and the scenes where he was arguing with snape he didnt seem to me to be so nervous. And in book 4, I knew it wouldnt be Krum, And i suspected Mad Eye, but i never caught the whole son part of it....that was a pretty crazy twist. I love how you get to the resolution and say "Oy...why did i not see that, she made it so obvious"...but it is only obvious once you know the ending. There are so many ways she could do it and it is great. Books for me were so mundane and predictable lately, which is a big part of why i enjoy the HP series as much as I do! Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 05:56:06 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:56:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Green POster Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7199 As I am SO ridiculously behind with emails frm you guys (been playing catch up for DAYS.,..had like 168 new messages) Why did they change the US poster to green ink and not the uk poster? Also, On a site called Movieheadlines.net, and affiliate site of theforce.net for any SW fans, they reported Verne Troyer as playing Peeves, no report on the official site though, and i am PRAYING that he does not get it. mine me in HP? I dont think so Tim...he may be on the small side but cant act for beans.... STephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From eliasberg at ioc.net Mon Dec 18 06:33:51 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:33:51 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91kb4f+bfp5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7200 disapparating is leaving and apparating is arriving, when you leave you disapparate and when you arrive you apparate. disapparate = disappear, apparate = appear. At least that is how I see it, hope that helps. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 18 07:33:11 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:33:11 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cracker Joke/tradespeople (OT) Message-ID: <01C0692F.ACA5CBA0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7201 LOL! Christian you are absolutely right and what an impeccable source! storm -----Original Message----- From: Christian Stubo [SMTP:rhodhry at yahoo.no] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:12 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Cracker Joke/tradespeople (OT) --- Denise Rohleder skrev: > Sister? [snip] > Matron? > > Never heard of a nurse called that. > It is/was the title for the head-nurse at hospitals (normally a stern woman with whom even the doctors dare not argue). Certainly, that is what I gathered from the Australian soap 'A Country Practise' (Aired in Norway over a period of 7 years). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stubo Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre pa http://no.photos.yahoo.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 18 09:21:01 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:21:01 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: saftey in america Message-ID: <01C06931.09E524E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7202 And did anyone else ever hear/read, so can identify what I'm talking about, some piece that described inventions and their probability of being okayed for production and sale to the public under today's laws? They were things like bicycles, cars, etc. It was almost too true to be funny. --Amanda yeah, I've read something about that. Aspirin made the list as I recall. storm -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [SMTP:editor at texas.net] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:32 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] RE: saftey in america Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Huh? We are talking about the same country as the one where lots of people for > not apparent reason keep lots of guns and knives and stuff aren't we? I guess > 'keeping the citizens safe' has many interpretations Well, aside from making hunting waaaay easier, the precision and craftsmanship of the guns we own are a big factor. Our swords and other sharp implements aren't High Quality, but again, the balance and symmetry and beauty are inherent. Tis a matter of taste. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 18 09:27:59 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:27:59 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys Message-ID: <01C06931.0E15D640.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7203 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, catlady wrote In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: "> Um, not to spoil the mood, but have the Weasleys gotten a bit more > financially solvent? How can they afford such a sumptious spread as > you plan? Are the wizard folk able to magic up raw ingredients? " I don't think that they are - otherwise the Wesley's wouldn't be poor (it is hard to imagine they would choose it if they had a choice). And the fact that they have a money exchange based system suggests that things can't just be 'conjured out of thin air'. Which works quiet nicely with the (very) little physics that I know - energy must come from energy (or matter from matter or what ever) Like white sauce dribbling out of the wand (which always seems Freudian to me). I never noticed before. "If Fred and George's joke shop is a big success, the family could be rolling in money." With their potter seeding grant I'm sure that is only a short way in the future. storm -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:17 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 18 09:49:23 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:49:23 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Truths in the Wizarding World Message-ID: <01C06934.08C1AC20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7204 * You can't kill the bad guy * Wesley's all have red hair (exactly what this says about respective Mrs Welseys' gene pool I leave you to ponder) * Slytherins are either ALL nasty or ALL misunderstood (depending on your perspective) * Seekers have the most fun * Being an animagus is easier than most people think (given the number of unregistered ones running around) * Dumbledore is the greatest wizard of his age (he can't - hear the desperation - can't turn out to be bad) Is that the sort of thing you are thinking of Ebony? I'll keep thinking - Storm - who is a bit slow and was up most of last night up with a dog who is neurotic (fireworks and thunderstorms - roll *off* New Years eve) and another dog who swore she had bloat (but didn't - phew!) -----Original Message----- From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:29 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Truths in the Wizarding World Hi, everyone--think this'll be my last post for the day. After reading all four books, what would you consider indisputable truths in the wizarding world? I'm making a list of them... and I need help. Here's what I have so far: All mail--letters and parcels--are delivered by owl post. Period. Hogwarts is the school for magical children who live in the United Kingdom (and Ireland, according to JKR). Harry Potter is the Boy Who Lived. I'd like to isolate about 5-10 more. Thanks in advance! --Ebony To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Mon Dec 18 10:16:29 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:16:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Board Game, Sweatshirt, and Comic Relief References: <91is6b+n4of@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010601c068eb$deac2200$262a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7205 > Has anyone heard of a video game being made? If so, what system will > it be released on? As far as I know Nintendo will release a new system next year, "Dolphin" or something like that, and they are developing a Harry Potter game for this one... Drats, my lil' bro' only has the Game Boy! Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Mon Dec 18 10:25:42 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:25:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Accio References: <91j0s0+g41n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010701c068eb$df53fac0$262a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7206 > When Harry first learns the Accio charm he says something like "Accio > History Book" and then during the first task he summons his Firebolt > by saying "Accio Firebolt". Why then in the cemetery scene did he > simply say "Accio" to call the Portkey Cup to him? What kept all the > DE's from flying to his side? Mrs. Weasley also just shouted "Accio!" to get the Tone-Tongue-Toffees (good thing for her, too, or she's have the twins sticking all over her Or the clock, for that matter. Poor Molly). I guess if you think of waht you want, it's good enough. When you're a starter you should say what you want because if you say it it's easier to think of it in the same time. But in that cave the portkey was everathing what Harry wanted, he was desperate to get it, so he didn't need to say it. Dinah From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 18 12:41:56 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:41:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Apparating References: Message-ID: <3A3E0614.63D9E146@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7207 I think it has to do with your reference point. When Arthur leaves for work in the morning, the burrow is where he disapparates from. The Ministry of Magic is where he apparates to. Peg Stephanie Becvar wrote: > I have read the HP series over and over, prob coming on about 10 times, and > I have looked it up, but i still dont know the dif between apparating and > disapparating. I though dis. was to go back from where you started, but mr > weasley talks about disapparating to work one morning. If someone could > help me feel less stupid i would appreciate it a lot! > > Stephanie > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Dec 18 13:44:47 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:44:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: Voldemort-anagram in Norwegian Message-ID: <20001218134447.14069.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7208 I was in a bookstore today, leafing through the Norwegian translation of CoS (I have only read Harry Potter in English, UK-edition), and found that the Norwegian anagram is as follows: Tom Dredolo Venster - Voldemort Den Store Venster may be interpreted as venstre (meaning left), though I am no expert on obscure Norwegian words. In Norway it has the sound of an truly old family-name of German origin, possibly associated with untitled nobility. Voldemort Den Store translates as 'Voldemort The Great', or 'The Powerful' (as a translation 'The Magnificent' will work too, but in the context it is inappropriate). It is worth noting that the norwegian translator has worked very hard on translating names, phrases and puns to Norwegian (Lockhart = Guldmedal, Snap=Slur, McGonagall=McSnurp, Dumbledore=Humlesnurr, Hagrid=Gygrid, Hermione Granger=Hermine Grang, Malfoy=Malfang, Quidditch=Rumpeldunk, etc.). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Mon Dec 18 14:53:18 2000 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:53:18 -0000 Subject: offline for a bit Message-ID: <91l8cu+khbm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7209 Hi Friends; My computer is wrecked (upstairs folks flooded their laundry room and it leaked onto my computer, I need a new hard drive) so I'm on no-mail for a bit. Have a wonderful holiday!! ~shahara in wisconsin From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Dec 18 15:12:42 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:12:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: OT Norwegian Christmas-sweets (long; includes cruel jokes directed at Swedes ;-) ) Message-ID: <20001218151242.14004.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7210 In my previous post I referred mainly to the main-courses of the meal. Of course, Norwegians have sweets, cakes and cookies for Christmas too (and Christmas-crackers, at ca. USD3 for a package of six, last time I checked - possibly with crappy gifts and crappier jokes, but still...). First of all, let me warn that anyone who mocks our great tradition of lutefisk, will be forced to spend a Spitsbergen night in a closed room, the only company being an open barrel of Surstrmming... ;-) Of cakes and cookies, there must be at least seven kinds. I will not go in detail on these, except to note that on very common kind is krum-cakes. Among sweets and treats common in Norwegian Christmas is marsipan, nuts and almonds, chocolates, homemade mints and clementines. Some people wondered what rice-porridge is. It is made by boiling one part rice and two parts water, till the water is gone, then add five parts milk, and boil till it is thick (normally 40-50 minutes). Add a pinch of salt, and serve steaming hot in deep dishes, with a lump of butter in the middle and generous sprinkling of cinnamon and sugar. You drink either 'saft' (a bit like Kool-Aidm but made from liquid concentrate) or milk. Hulsholdningssaft (containing juice from apple, cherry, grape and pear) is best for porridge. Leftover porridge can be used for rice cream - just mix it with whipped cream (the real thing - not the spray-can type). It is served with red sauce, made from the type of saft described above. This is a common desert for Christmas, as is icecream and homemade caramel pudding with caramel sauce. Fltegrt (which someone asked about) is made by melting butter, adding flour and then milk. The name means cream-porridge (or pudding), and it is also known as flyelsgrt (velvet porridge, or pudding). It is served the same way as riceporridge. A third porridge is sourcream porridge, a very rich dish. Butter is not used, as one can 'skim' fat of the porridge while it is cooking. It can have unpredictable effects on the digestive system. It is often served on midsummernight, accompanied by flatbread (or crispbread, as it is also known) and salted meat. Gifts are kept in a large pile under the Christmas-tree in Norway. The Christmas-tree is not put up until teh evening of december 23rd (Li'l Christmas Eve), and in many families, children are not allowed to see the tree until they wake up the morning of the 24th and enter the living room, which, by magic it would seem, has been transformed from chaos to Christmas, the only source of light being the tree itself. For extensive information about Christmas around the odd corners of the world, you may want to visit: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/christmasinternational This is the 2nd or 3rd largest Christmas-group at Yahoo! clubs. They would love to hear of Harry Potter-inspired Christmas-celebrations, too, I am certain. While I have your attention: Some people ehre were going to cook some impressive English dinners. Who were you, and may we hear how it turned out when it is all over? Note: Surstrmming is, as far as I know, made from a Swedish freshwater-fish, pickled and cured to the degree that it has started fermenting (apparently the process includes burying it for a while in a wooden barrel, though I may be mistaken on this). Tehre was a ferocious exchange of newspaper-articles between Danish and Swedish newspapers some years back, over a Swedish nuclear powerplant. It ended with the Swedish threatening to dump plane-loads of Surstrmming over the Danes. The Danes maintained that this would be a warcrime according to international conventions (falling under the definition of chemical warfare). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 15:28:24 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:28:24 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony In-Reply-To: <91iqes+7l4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91laeo+m801@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7211 Thanks Rita. A lot of what you wrote I didn't know. There's just one point that bothers me a bit, regarding the dating of Hannukkah. You say that it was "adopted as a holiday in order to compete with Persian/Zoroastrian celebration..", but at that time (Maccabbee rebellion) Judea was under Seleucid (that is, hellenic) rule. Was Persian culture still such a major influence on Jews in Judea? Naama --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > > BTW, It might come as a surprise to non-Jewish Americans, but > > Hanukka is not an important holiday at all, really. Its been made a > > lot of bc of its (completely coincidental) nearness to Christmas. > > It's not really a COMPLETELY coincidental nearness to Xmas: both are > at times set by the Winter Solstice. I think it is no longer > controversial to say that, whenever Jesus ben Joseph's birthday is, > it is not in mid-winter (when shepherds are not watching their flocks > in the fields by night) but the Celebration was placed then in order > to compete with the Pagan celebration of Mithras's birthday on Winter > Solstice. > > I'm afraid that it still is controversial to say that Hannukkah was > adopted as a holiday in order to compete with the Persian / > Zoraoastrian celebration of the Winter Solstice. How fortunate that > SOME historical event (the Maccabees re-conquering the Temple, as it > happens) occured at that time. > > But the scholars spent 1900 or so years being VERY uncomfortable > about Hannukkah, because of the Maccabee connection. First, while > Judaea was 'under the heavy foot' of Rome, people liked to avoid the > subject of Maccabees altogether, because it was that dynasty which > had INVITED Rome to intervene (as their ally against Syria). Second, > after the Bar Kochkba rebellion, grown-ups did not want their > children listening to stories that would encourage them to rise up > against the imperial overlords in a doomed rebellion and get > themselves killed. Which is why emphasizing Judah Maccabee and > his brothers as successful freedom fighters throwing off colonial > rulers is a very twentieth (now twenti-first) century thing. Our > (our = baby boomers's) great-grandparents believed that the holiday > was ONLY about the MIRACULOUS OIL. From rgoertz at austin.rr.com Mon Dec 18 15:48:09 2000 From: rgoertz at austin.rr.com (Ryan Goertz) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:48:09 -0000 Subject: Teaser Poster Part 2 Message-ID: <91lbjp+q5ln@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7212 Here is the domestic version of the poster. http://movies.warnerbros.com/harrypotter/cmp/onesheet.html Cheers, Ryan From anglinsbees at yahoo.com Mon Dec 18 15:56:35 2000 From: anglinsbees at yahoo.com (Ellen Anglin) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:56:35 -0000 Subject: Heraldry- The color of Metals In-Reply-To: <3A3D8CA6.9573252C@texas.net> Message-ID: <91lc3j+8mq5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7213 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rita Winston wrote: > > > > As bronze, despite being an Olympic medal, is not a heraldic metal, not even a heraldic color, not even a color which by another name is > > a heraldic color. So wouldn't they HAVE to depict a bronze object > > as or? > > If they were paying even an iota of attention, yes. Or, for you who have > lives, is the heraldic term for gold. > Heraldic things can also be Blazoned "Proper" Meaning that they are their natural colors. I know this only because my arms in the society for Creative anchronisims, include "eight acorns in orle, proper." I wanted brown acorns, but could not, under the rules of heraldry, have brown acorns on a green background- I however, allowed to have natural colored acorns. Go Figure. So if you want something bronze colored, It could, under SCA rules, be emblazoned as for instance "A Bronze medallion, proper." Ellen the Beekeeper From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Dec 18 15:59:01 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:59:01 -0000 Subject: owl mail In-Reply-To: <91ibrb+1rh9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91lc85+nnrb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7214 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > naama wrote: > > > I have a little question regarding the hunderd owls that swoop into > > > the dining room every morning: Why do all these owls arrive at > > once? > > > After all, people get owl mail every hour of the day and night > > > anyway. > > > I thought that maybe families that don't have owls of their own > > would > > > send an owl in the morning from the post office. But that doesn't > > > make sense, because the owls come from all over the place and it > > > would take them different amounts of time to reach Hogwarts. [do > > you > > > say that - 'differnt amounts of time'? I sometimes have trouble > > with > > > colloquialisms.] > > > > > > Naama > > > > Perhaps morning is the scheduled time for mail at Hogwarts. It would > > be rather inconvenient if owls swooped in at any time of day to > > deliver a package or letter (doubt Snape would tolerate an owl > > delivery in the middle of Potions) > > > > :-) Milz > > > Thanks for the answer, Milz. I actually thought of a reasonable answer about three minutes > (obviously) after I posted the message. The owls arrive at the owlery at different times > during the night, and then "swoop" into the dining room at breakfast. There still remains a > little question about how they know to wait till morning. On holidays Hedwig brings Harry > letters and packages during the night too. Well.. I guess its not really important, the owls > just know that at Hogwarts they have to wait till morning. (Although - wouldn't it be > uncomfortable for them to sit on their perches with letters or packages tied to their legs? > And can you imagine Pigwidgeon just sitting quietly when he has a letter to deliver? He'd > probably drive the other owls crazy, hopping and flying around with excitment.) > > Naama, in obsessive pursuit of consistency. Since owls are nocturnal animals, perhaps they roost in a owlery office somewhere until nighttime to deliver the mail? In SS/PS the TV reporter is commenting on the unusual number of daytime owl sightings. Maybe they were "special delivery" owls. :-)Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Dec 18 16:10:56 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:10:56 -0000 Subject: Heraldry- The color of Metals In-Reply-To: <91lc3j+8mq5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91lcug+g7o3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7215 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ellen Anglin" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Rita Winston wrote: > > > > > > > As bronze, despite being an Olympic medal, is not a heraldic > metal, not even a heraldic color, not even a color which by another > name is > > > a heraldic color. So wouldn't they HAVE to depict a bronze object > > > as or? > > > > If they were paying even an iota of attention, yes. Or, for you who > have > > lives, is the heraldic term for gold. > > > Heraldic things can also be Blazoned "Proper" Meaning that they are > their natural colors. I know this only because my arms in the > society for Creative anchronisims, include "eight acorns in orle, > proper." I wanted brown acorns, but could not, under the rules of > heraldry, have brown acorns on a green background- I however, > allowed to have natural colored acorns. Go Figure. > > So if you want something bronze colored, It could, under SCA rules, > be emblazoned as for instance "A Bronze medallion, proper." > > > Ellen the Beekeeper Here's a good website that discusses heraldry. (Unfortunately for them, they do a good job of exposing alleged fraud and that has given them a teeny bit of trouble.) http://www.baronage.co.uk/jag-ht/jag006.html :-)Milz From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 18 16:20:39 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:20:39 -0600 Subject: Various Message-ID: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7216 Hi -- EBONY'S FANFIC -- I just had to add my 2 galleons and recommend that everyone read Ebony's first installment of her fanfic -- it's really great! :--) MUM, NOT MOM -- Stephanie, I was looking at my American edition of SS when I said the US editions used Mom rather than Mum. You're right that they must have changed it to Mum by the time they got to CoS & later books. I'm seeing less & less Americanization with each passing book. I'm still not sure if I believe this because they just had less time to Americanize with GoF or if they actually are heeding the words of the fans, who would prefer that the Britishisms not be tampered with. HOLIDAY TRADITIONS -- Ebony, I think "soul food" must be just Southern cooking in alot of ways, as your soul food menu might easily be served by my very southern Granny but she'd look at you like you were crazy if you suggested it was "soul food." My family has also eaten blackeyed peas & cornbread on New Year's Day for decades -- again, it must be a tradition that has expanded to be very Southern in general. My PA Dutch in-laws (German!) think you're bringing yourself tons of bad luck for the coming year if you don't eat sauerkraut on New Year's, and they are loathe to try any blackeyed peas (which is apparently only fit for livestock up North). So .... they eat their sauerkraut, I eat blackeyed peas & my husband has a bit of both. BOOK BANNING -- Stephanie, I live in Houston so we're neighbors! You might not be aware that the Santa Fe school district also had a recent HP brouhaha (Santa Fe is in Galveston County). It was resolved (I think) by allowing children to borrow the HP books from the library with a parental permission form and they can bring their own copies from home. The teachers, however, cannot read the books to the classes. It's so insane really. My sister teaches in a suburb of Austin, and she read SS & CoS to her 3rd graders last spring with no complaints whatsoever. I guess it just depends on the general demographics of each school district. The Santa Fe school district, shortly after their HP issues, attempted to ban any books that contained even a single profane word (so that they would have ended up banning classics such as Where the Red Fern Grows & Call of the Wild). This was defeated by only one vote (4-3). I suspect strongly that 90% of the people who favor banning the HP books have *not* read the books. They are simply going on hearsay ... preconceived notions, etc. > Sorry about that it is the third book and the person is Ginny, Mea Culpa. > It is Ginny who is rescued and is holding tightly to Harry. > Don and Penguinie Embarrassed Penguin > The bookcover of PoA (3rd book) in the US depicts Harry & Hermione on Buckbeak, the hippogriff. BEACHAM BOOK -- Heidi, I assume you are coordinating the recent requests to be added to the list (Steve, Trina, etc.)? Penny (catching up!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heiditandy at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 18 16:18:53 2000 From: heiditandy at bigfoot.com (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:18:53 -0000 Subject: Time's Author of the Year - JK Rowling Message-ID: <91lddd+4daa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7217 The article & a pic of her in a hooded cloak are at http://www.time.com/time/poy2000/mag/rowling.html Here's the part I thought we'd like least: Her agent has said that Book 5 won't be out before 2002 : ( but we will have the Quidditch & Magical Beasts books out this spring, and hopefully will be able to find enough little glimmers in there to keep us happy. I'm hoping that in the Quidditch book there will be a little bit on Charlie Weasley and (crosses fingers, hypothesizingly) a description of the Hogwarts Quidditch Cup Battle On 1977, involving James Potter, Sirius Black, Lucius Malfoy and Severus Snape in varying degrees of competition (maybe? perhaps?). Looks like we're going to have to rely on fanfiction to keep us going....I bet there'll be over 70,000 stories on ff.net by the time book 5 comes out (and cassandra will crash the server another 90 times!) Here's the part I thought we'd like most: And it's not only young people who love the Harry Potter books; they have been eagerly adopted by uncounted adults and have prompted serious academic attention. Vance Smith, an assistant professor of English at Princeton University who is spending this year as a visiting member at the Institute for Advanced Study, Einstein's old bailiwick, has just delivered a lecture called "Harry Potter and This Ever-Changing Medieval World" to an alumni seminar. He praises, among other things, Rowling's clever use of Latin and her "important and rigorous medieval agenda." Not since Charles Dickens has a novelist writing in English achieved Rowling's command over a whole society ?young and not so young, of modest means and with money to flamb??and the Dickens analogy quickly outlives its usefulness. None of his novels were simultaneous best sellers in dozens of languages; the 19th century world was a markedly slower place than our own. And Dickens' audience had none of the distractions that beguile Rowling's readers: no radio, films, recorded music, TV, video and computer games, the Internet. For years, literary culture has been portrayed as gasping on life support, sustained only by old-fogey teachers and hidebound school curricula. The death of the author was surely at hand. And then along came Rowling. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 16:33:35 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:33:35 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys In-Reply-To: <91jvje+5ntv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91le8v+aaeq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7218 > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Um, not to spoil the mood, but have the Weasleys gotten a bit more > > financially solvent? How can they afford such a sumptious spread as > > you plan? (SHAMELESS PLUG WARNING) If you read the fic, you'll see that they have indeed gotten more financially solvent. :) The fictional dinner in "Trouble in Paradise 01-Christmas With The Weasleys" by AngieJ takes place 13 years after the events in GoF. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > Are the wizard folk able to magic up raw ingredients? Like white > sauce dribbling out of the wand (which always seems Freudian to me). LOL! It wasn't Freudian to me until you pointed *that* out... Thanks so much for the laugh Rita... I'm in my classroom on lunch break and sorely needed it. > If all the young-uns got jobs to support themselves, the Weasleys > would be more financially solvent than with five or even four > dependent children. If Fred and George's joke shop is a big success, > the family could be rolling in money. Exactly. Even in the canon, you see hints of future success for all the children. Bill's climbing the corporate ladder at Gringotts' Egypt branch, Charlie's working with dragons (which even if it doesn't pay much, *must* come with a tidy life insurance plan), and Percy wants to be powerful, period. The twins have the joke shop Rita mentioned in the works, already "test marketing" products on hapless souls like Neville. Ron and Ginny seem to be determined as well. I predict that if Arthur survives the Second Voldemort War, he'll no longer be a ministry worker at the Muggle Artifacts office. I also know from my own Muggle history that war changes the social, economic, and psychological fabric of a society... and that society's company. Rest assured, the Weasleys *will* eat well in 2008. I think they deserve it, don't you? Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 16:48:43 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:48:43 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner (cheap) Message-ID: <91lf5b+9nf9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7219 Still at work... I looked over Neil's suggestions for magical creatures dishes. Cool. Only one problem... In the canon, there seem to be magical drinks (i.e., butterbeer, pumpkin juice, firewhisky (is that magical? I'm not a teetotaler, but don't drink often enough to know)) and magical candy, but no indication of characters eating anything but regular food. At least, nothing comes to mind. I assume that at least SOME of the food must be prepared. Otherwise, why employ legions of house-elves in the Hogwarts kitchens? Why not just point your wand and ::poof:: food appears? We've had the discussion in the past, and I think the consensus was in this particular milieu, there is no such thing as spontaneous generation of matter. In other words, you can't create something out of nothing. If you could, we wouldn't be having a discussion about the Weasley's poverty... they could just magic up a houseful of Galleons. Also, while some charms may aid with the housework, I think some must be manually done as well. Again, I'm thinking about house-elves. Finally, I didn't get to add this bit in the fic, but the reason why Arthur and Molly live in the Burrow (even after becoming more financially secure) is because they like it there. There was a line about the inside having been remodeled about five years before the fic begins, but the outside looking just the same as it always had... but that didn't survive the first draft. Ebony From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Dec 18 16:49:54 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:49:54 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony In-Reply-To: <91laeo+m801@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91lf7i+gbar@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7220 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > Thanks Rita. A lot of what you wrote I didn't know. There's just one point that bothers me a > bit, regarding the dating of Hannukkah. You say that it was "adopted as a holiday in order > to compete with Persian/Zoroastrian celebration..", but at that time (Maccabbee rebellion) > Judea was under Seleucid (that is, hellenic) rule. Was Persian culture still such a major > influence on Jews in Judea? > > Naama Yes.The apocalyptic visions in the book of Daniel and the visit of the Magi in the New Testament are examples of it. Pippin From heiditandy at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 18 16:58:22 2000 From: heiditandy at bigfoot.com (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:58:22 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner (cheap) In-Reply-To: <91lf5b+9nf9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7221 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > We've had the discussion in the past, and I think the consensus > was in this particular milieu, there is no such thing as > spontaneous generation of matter. In other words, you can't > create something out of nothing. If you could, we wouldn't be > having a discussion about the Weasley's poverty... they could > just magic up a houseful of Galleons. > I think this has to be correct. otherwise, why would anyone care if the philosopher's stone could turn any metal into gold? (note: the PS doesn't create it out of nothing, in the traditional mythology of the stone - it turns "base metals" like bronze or even silver into gold (question: could the PS turn platinum into gold, and since platinum is more valuable, why would anyone want to?)) But the whole question of spontaneous generation of matter is a little iffy too - science tells us that nature abhors a vacuum, and in the world, vacuums don't automatically exist - they must be created. I'm no scientist, but my understanding is that every bit of space - even the stuff that looks empty - is full of matter - and where there isn't matter, there is energy (and of course, they can be converted into each other (see, for example, fire)) - maybe high- functioning super-powers (like Harry has in Lori's PoU series) allow a wizard or witch to manipulate matter in such a way that it appears that something is being created out of nothing - whereas in the everyday wizarding world, changing things, like they do in transfiguration, uses a wand & spells to focus energy so matter is manipulated and changed from one thing to another. And this could go off on a whole tangent involving how Animagi think when they are in animal form, which I know a lot of people have tackled in varying ways in fanfic - and if someone wants to take this there, I'd love to run in that direction... From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 17:06:10 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:06:10 -0000 Subject: Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <01C06934.08C1AC20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91lg63+8e5b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7222 Thanks, Storm! May I quote some of these? I'll be sure to give you proper credit... it's important for chapter two. I'll answer each line by line. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > * You can't kill the bad guy. Why not? (I watched "Romeo Must Die" over the weekend and something in this vein was said/implied in the movie.) Elaborate, someone! > > * Weasleys all have red hair (exactly what this says about respective Mrs. Weasleys' gene pool I leave you to ponder) In my fic, two third-generation Weasleys don't have red hair, but the red gene managed to tinge the mothers' platinum blonde/jet black alleles somewhat. I think that most of the Weasleys of prior generations had spouses that were quite similar ethnically--have we determined if the family is English or Scottish or Irish? If one or two married a very, very fair Nordic girl or someone of another race, it doesn't necessarily follow that they'd have the carroty red hair. Of course, I'm not drawing these conclusions from genetic knowledge. Just from my experience with multiethnic/multiracial friends in real life. :) > * Slytherins are either ALL nasty or ALL misunderstood (depending on your > perspective). I like this one. Explains the growing Draco/Snape fetishes. > * Seekers have the most fun I like this one too. * Being an animagus is easier than most people think (given the number of > unregistered ones running around) LOL! Well, I wouldn't say that it's easy. Just worth the wizard or witch's while to undergo the procedure. > * Dumbledore is the greatest wizard of his age (he can't - hear the desperation > - can't turn out to be bad) Ah, you've been listening to Neil harp about Dumbledore's two-facedness, have you? :) I don't think he's bad. Just a marked wizard--he won't survive the canon, poor thing. > Is that the sort of thing you are thinking of Ebony? I'll keep thinking - Thanks so much, Storm! This is really important for ch. 2! I'd also like for others to add to the list if they can think of anything else-- Ebony From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 05:25:03 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:25:03 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: Message-ID: <006101c0697c$0f9ecb20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7223 > not to continue the american-bashing here (since i am one, after all), but > can any of you other Americans imagine having party-favors with GUNPOWDER in > them?!?!? But there's worse, you know. One of the deepest sources of suffering in wife's life is my (very American) phobia about lighted candles on Christmas trees. The first Christmas after our wedding, Susan followed Swiss tradition in buying a whole collection of clips and candles, then happily set to decorating. Poor thing--she was so proud of herself, until I got turned up, and accused her of premeditating arson. Since I loved her very deeply indeed, I allowed her to slip in a romantic cd, turn down the lights and light her candles. And I spent the next ten minutes prowling back andforth in front of the tree, clenching the sand bucket in white-fisted agony. After ten minutes, she blew them all out and went for a long walk. (Alone.) BTW, since she loved *me* very deeply, instead of calling it quits then and there, she found a shop in Bern that sold electric lights. I've enjoyed our trees ever since. (She drew the line at golden ones, though. She was willing to make compomises, but the red, green and blue twinklers I wanted would have scorched out a chasm of barbarism too vast for any human love to bridge.) Could it be that we Americans have evolved an extra gene possessed only by the insurance salesmen of other continents? Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Mon Dec 18 17:42:57 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:42:57 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Be Forewarned:(Not so) Angry Rant to Follow: Message-ID: <57.f0eb36b.276fa6a1@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7224 In a message dated 12/18/00 12:06:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Stephanie Becvar wrote: > Be Forewarned: Angry Rant to Follow: << Thanks for listening and let me know if you think > that the administrators were within their rights to do so. >> Having experienced this in our district, I can certainly relate to your anger. I also have to relate it to where I was with the HP boks at the time. In the fall of 1999 my sister, 10, was reading Book One. She constantly tried to have me read the book, knowing that I am and have always been very much into Tolkien, Merlin and things. But I refused. We live in Columbia, SC which is even mentioned in the infamous Beecham book. Holly's teacher had been reading the book aloud to the class after lunch but that came to a screeching halt. These kids too were allowed to read the books if they brought them, it wasn't removed from the library, and sharing was allowed. Just no "Official Teacher Reading" I got interested during that time but there was also an incident that was worrisome. My sister and her friend were suddenly making odd combinations of things. Then we found that she'd not been taking her allergy medicine but had been opening the capsules,using the powder. Next we discover a sheet of paper with "Hate Spells " on it. OK maybe this is play, but it was not good play. It resulted in many family discussions of right, wrong, religious issues, character and value issues. Actually magic wasn't an issue.They weren't things that hadn't been discussed before, but believe me, it was in depth then. I finally was trapped by boredom on a car trip in January into reading Book One, and read the other two the same week. Needless to say, I have been obsessed since then. Where does this lead? My sister who was a mediocre reader before is NOT obsessed( It's boys & makeup now) but was from then on out an excellent reader. An accelerated reader, who is now in Advanced Language Arts and reads constantly. She is my consultant (reluctantly now, I must admit) on Paris and was the instigator for Summer , if any of you have read it. My point is that people will read the books, and they will eventually respond in character. Strangely enough, the more commercially successful the books have become, the less objection I hear from the religious groups. And I doubt JKR is going to pull a John Lennon in the 60's- "We're biggger than Jesus". Just some thoughts from Circe who's thoroughly enjoying the re -release of John Lennon's In His Own Write. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Dec 18 17:45:08 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:45:08 -0000 Subject: "Fantastic Beasts" and "Quidditch" reserve now! Message-ID: <91lif4+4a39@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7225 Sorry if this has been posted already. I just reserved "Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them" by J. K. Rowling and Newt Scamander and "Quidditch Through the Ages" by J. K. Rowling and Kennilworthy Whisp from Borders.com. They are available in trade paperback only and are $ 3.99 a piece. :-) Milz From htand at carltonfields.com Mon Dec 18 17:48:21 2000 From: htand at carltonfields.com (Tandy, Heidi) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:48:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Fantastic Beasts" and "Quidditch" reserve no w! Message-ID: <5F48F8CE8289D4118AE000A0C9C730A00B2829@cgexch1> No: HPFGUIDX 7226 And pics of the covers of the books are at http://www.comicrelief.co.uk/main/harrysbooks.html > -----Original Message----- > From: milz [mailto:absinthe at mad.scientist.com] > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:45 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Fantastic Beasts" and "Quidditch" > reserve now! > > > Sorry if this has been posted already. I just reserved "Fantastic > Beasts & Where to Find Them" by J. K. Rowling and Newt Scamander > and "Quidditch Through the Ages" by J. K. Rowling and Kennilworthy > Whisp from Borders.com. They are available in trade paperback only > and are $ 3.99 a piece. > > :-) Milz > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > -------------------------~-~> > eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/1/_/_/_/977161513/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Mon Dec 18 17:51:48 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:51:48 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 339 Message-ID: <27.eedd402.276fa8b4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7227 Amanda Lewanski wrote: wren lanier wrote: > sometimes i hate being an american. there's no fun in it. Console yourself. You could be a Texan. --Amanda Or a South Carolinian. Not that my state doesn't have it wonderful - ness, but as we've been saying, after the "flag isue " was finally ( more or less) put to rest. We are surprised the big bad votes controversy didn't take place here. It would be about typical. ~ Circe From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Mon Dec 18 17:57:06 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:57:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 339 Message-ID: <79.dc0293b.276fa9f2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7228 In a message dated 12/18/00 12:06:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << My wife's family in NC, also Scotch/Irish, includes collard greens and field peas (a.k.a. blackeyed peas) in their Christmas "dinner". >> We do this for New Year's in SC. It is a sort of good luck tradition. The gres denoting greenbacks, lots of them in the coming year, and the back eyes peas are for the "pocket change". By New Year's Eve day, you'l find it hard to find a collard in any form , fresh frozen or canned, in a store. ~ Circe From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 18 18:05:25 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 18 Dec 2000 10:05:25 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Fantastic Beasts" and "Quidditch" reserve no w! Message-ID: <20001218180525.8899.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7229 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Dec 18 18:44:26 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:44:26 -0000 Subject: Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <91lg63+8e5b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91llua+q6r3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7230 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > * You can't kill the bad guy. > > Why not? (I watched "Romeo Must Die" over the weekend and > something in this vein was said/implied in the movie.) > Elaborate, someone! This is a basic rule of pop fiction, courtesy of a course I took in scriptwriting: The villain must die in the last ditch. If your story is a multivolume serial, then you can't kill the bad guy till the whole thing's over, so Voldemort will be around (I predict) till about 10 pages from the end of Book 7. In fan fic he will be around forever. > > I'd also like for others to add to the list if they can think of anything > else-- *There's always something fishy about the DADA teacher* *You can't apparate or disapparate on the Hogwarts grounds* *Hagrid will exercise poor judgment* *No spell can waken the dead* *The bad guys, having all the info they need and all their plans in place, will inexplicably wait until the end of term to attack* Please feel free to use these in any way. Pippin From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Dec 18 18:50:35 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:50:35 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World References: <91lg63+8e5b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <014401c06923$68d475e0$8b148cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7231 > > * Dumbledore is the greatest wizard of his age (he can't - hear > the desperation > > - can't turn out to be bad) > > Ah, you've been listening to Neil harp about Dumbledore's > two-facedness, have you? :) I don't think he's bad. Just a > marked wizard--he won't survive the canon, poor thing. > Dumbledore ? Two faced ? What do you mean ? Can somebody give me an idea where to find the relevant post, please ? Michelle From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 18 19:20:13 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:20:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Merry Christmas! Message-ID: <17179804.977167213807.JavaMail.support@p0d15> No: HPFGUIDX 7232 voicelady at mymailstation.com has sent you an MSN flash animation! To view your card, please click the following Web address any time over the next three (3) weeks: http://cardrecipient.msn.com/v/fhmdRbWjHm Need some help? See below! ********************************* Perhaps your E-mail program doesnt recognize the Web address as an active link. No problem! You can copy and paste the Web address into your Web browser. Here are instructions on how to copy and paste: Step One: With your mouse, highlight the *entire* Web address above Step Two: Select the EDIT menu and choose COPY Step Three: Go to your Web browser and *click inside* the window where you normally type a Web address to visit Step Four: Select the EDIT menu and choose PASTE Step Five: Now hit ENTER on your keyboard to take you to the Web address Its that easy! :-) If you would like further assistance, were happy to help--please send E-mail to GreetingCards at css.one.microsoft.com ---------------- MSN Greeting Service is powered by Egreetings Network, Inc.,http://www.egreetings.com (c)2000 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. From gkallen2 at home.com Mon Dec 18 22:23:46 2000 From: gkallen2 at home.com (Greg and Kelly) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:23:46 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World References: <91llua+q6r3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013101c06941$3052d720$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7233 *The bad guys, having all the info they need and all their plans in > place, will inexplicably wait until the end of term to attack* LOL! OF COURSE! Otherwise it would make for short-boring books!! KellyA Waterford, Michigan, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:44 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > > wrote: > > > * You can't kill the bad guy. > > > > Why not? (I watched "Romeo Must Die" over the weekend and > > something in this vein was said/implied in the movie.) > > Elaborate, someone! > > This is a basic rule of pop fiction, courtesy of a course I took > in scriptwriting: The villain must die in the last ditch. > If your story is a multivolume serial, then you can't kill the bad > guy till the whole thing's over, so Voldemort will be around (I > predict) till about 10 pages from the end of Book 7. In fan fic he will > be around forever. > > > > I'd also like for others to add to the list if they can think of anything > > else-- > > *There's always something fishy about the DADA teacher* > *You can't apparate or disapparate on the Hogwarts grounds* > *Hagrid will exercise poor judgment* > *No spell can waken the dead* > *The bad guys, having all the info they need and all their plans in > place, will inexplicably wait until the end of term to attack* > Please feel free to use these in any way. > Pippin > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 18 19:44:44 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:44:44 -0000 Subject: Voldemort-anagram in Norwegian In-Reply-To: <20001218134447.14069.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91lpfc+9k68@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7234 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > I was in a bookstore today, leafing through the Norwegian translation > of CoS (I have only read Harry Potter in English, UK-edition), and > found that the Norwegian anagram is as follows: > > Tom Dredolo Venster - Voldemort Den Store In one translation, the anagram was rendered as: Ssss ssss sssss - Sssss ssss ssss That was in the Parselmouth version (sorry - couldn't resist) - CMC From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 18 18:50:04 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon Branford) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:50:04 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mom/Mum and a very bad joke. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7235 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 19:41:54 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:41:54 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] OT Norwegian Christmas-sweets (long; includes cruel jokes directed at Swedes ;-) ) References: <20001218151242.14004.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011401c0692b$ba34b320$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7236 Please leave SURStr?mmingen out of this, its not Christmas food, aargh it starts smelling in my nose.... catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Christian Stub? Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 18 december 2000 16:12 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] OT Norwegian Christmas-sweets (long; includes cruel jokes directed at Swedes ;-) ) In my previous post I referred mainly to the main-courses of the meal. Of course, Norwegians have sweets, cakes and cookies for Christmas too (and Christmas-crackers, at ca. USD3 for a package of six, last time I checked - possibly with crappy gifts and crappier jokes, but still...). First of all, let me warn that anyone who mocks our great tradition of lutefisk, will be forced to spend a Spitsbergen night in a closed room, the only company being an open barrel of Surstr?mming... ;-) Of cakes and cookies, there must be at least seven kinds. I will not go in detail on these, except to note that on very common kind is krum-cakes. Among sweets and treats common in Norwegian Christmas is marsipan, nuts and almonds, chocolates, homemade mints and clementines. Some people wondered what rice-porridge is. It is made by boiling one part rice and two parts water, till the water is gone, then add five parts milk, and boil till it is thick (normally 40-50 minutes). Add a pinch of salt, and serve steaming hot in deep dishes, with a lump of butter in the middle and generous sprinkling of cinnamon and sugar. You drink either 'saft' (a bit like Kool-Aidm but made from liquid concentrate) or milk. Hulsholdningssaft (containing juice from apple, cherry, grape and pear) is best for porridge. Leftover porridge can be used for rice cream - just mix it with whipped cream (the real thing - not the spray-can type). It is served with red sauce, made from the type of saft described above. This is a common desert for Christmas, as is icecream and homemade caramel pudding with caramel sauce. Fl?tegr?t (which someone asked about) is made by melting butter, adding flour and then milk. The name means cream-porridge (or pudding), and it is also known as fl?yelsgr?t (velvet porridge, or pudding). It is served the same way as riceporridge. A third porridge is sourcream porridge, a very rich dish. Butter is not used, as one can 'skim' fat of the porridge while it is cooking. It can have unpredictable effects on the digestive system. It is often served on midsummernight, accompanied by flatbread (or crispbread, as it is also known) and salted meat. Gifts are kept in a large pile under the Christmas-tree in Norway. The Christmas-tree is not put up until teh evening of december 23rd (Li'l Christmas Eve), and in many families, children are not allowed to see the tree until they wake up the morning of the 24th and enter the living room, which, by magic it would seem, has been transformed from chaos to Christmas, the only source of light being the tree itself. For extensive information about Christmas around the odd corners of the world, you may want to visit: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/christmasinternational This is the 2nd or 3rd largest Christmas-group at Yahoo! clubs. They would love to hear of Harry Potter-inspired Christmas-celebrations, too, I am certain. While I have your attention: Some people ehre were going to cook some impressive English dinners. Who were you, and may we hear how it turned out when it is all over? Note: Surstr?mming is, as far as I know, made from a Swedish freshwater-fish, pickled and cured to the degree that it has started fermenting (apparently the process includes burying it for a while in a wooden barrel, though I may be mistaken on this). Tehre was a ferocious exchange of newspaper-articles between Danish and Swedish newspapers some years back, over a Swedish nuclear powerplant. It ended with the Swedish threatening to dump plane-loads of Surstr?mming over the Danes. The Danes maintained that this would be a warcrime according to international conventions (falling under the definition of chemical warfare). ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub? Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p? http://no.photos.yahoo.com eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 19:45:36 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:45:36 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony References: <91laeo+m801@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011501c0692b$bc092500$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7237 Why not just celebrate the wonderful oil thing. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: naama Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 18 december 2000 16:28 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony Thanks Rita. A lot of what you wrote I didn't know. There's just one point that bothers me a bit, regarding the dating of Hannukkah. You say that it was "adopted as a holiday in order to compete with Persian/Zoroastrian celebration..", but at that time (Maccabbee rebellion) Judea was under Seleucid (that is, hellenic) rule. Was Persian culture still such a major influence on Jews in Judea? Naama --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > > BTW, It might come as a surprise to non-Jewish Americans, but > > Hanukka is not an important holiday at all, really. Its been made a > > lot of bc of its (completely coincidental) nearness to Christmas. > > It's not really a COMPLETELY coincidental nearness to Xmas: both are > at times set by the Winter Solstice. I think it is no longer > controversial to say that, whenever Jesus ben Joseph's birthday is, > it is not in mid-winter (when shepherds are not watching their flocks > in the fields by night) but the Celebration was placed then in order > to compete with the Pagan celebration of Mithras's birthday on Winter > Solstice. > > I'm afraid that it still is controversial to say that Hannukkah was > adopted as a holiday in order to compete with the Persian / > Zoraoastrian celebration of the Winter Solstice. How fortunate that > SOME historical event (the Maccabees re-conquering the Temple, as it > happens) occured at that time. > > But the scholars spent 1900 or so years being VERY uncomfortable > about Hannukkah, because of the Maccabee connection. First, while > Judaea was 'under the heavy foot' of Rome, people liked to avoid the > subject of Maccabees altogether, because it was that dynasty which > had INVITED Rome to intervene (as their ally against Syria). Second, > after the Bar Kochkba rebellion, grown-ups did not want their > children listening to stories that would encourage them to rise up > against the imperial overlords in a doomed rebellion and get > themselves killed. Which is why emphasizing Judah Maccabee and > his brothers as successful freedom fighters throwing off colonial > rulers is a very twentieth (now twenti-first) century thing. Our > (our = baby boomers's) great-grandparents believed that the holiday > was ONLY about the MIRACULOUS OIL. eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Dec 18 19:54:08 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 18 Dec 2000 11:54:08 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mom/Mum and a very bad joke. Message-ID: <20001218195408.11527.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7238 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 20:03:41 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:03:41 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Various References: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> Message-ID: <016301c0692e$bc4dc7c0$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7239 That reminds me of The Satanic Verses. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Till: HPforGrownups Skickat: den 18 december 2000 17:20 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Various Hi -- EBONY'S FANFIC -- I just had to add my 2 galleons and recommend that everyone read Ebony's first installment of her fanfic -- it's really great! :--) MUM, NOT MOM -- Stephanie, I was looking at my American edition of SS when I said the US editions used Mom rather than Mum. You're right that they must have changed it to Mum by the time they got to CoS & later books. I'm seeing less & less Americanization with each passing book. I'm still not sure if I believe this because they just had less time to Americanize with GoF or if they actually are heeding the words of the fans, who would prefer that the Britishisms not be tampered with. HOLIDAY TRADITIONS -- Ebony, I think "soul food" must be just Southern cooking in alot of ways, as your soul food menu might easily be served by my very southern Granny but she'd look at you like you were crazy if you suggested it was "soul food." My family has also eaten blackeyed peas & cornbread on New Year's Day for decades -- again, it must be a tradition that has expanded to be very Southern in general. My PA Dutch in-laws (German!) think you're bringing yourself tons of bad luck for the coming year if you don't eat sauerkraut on New Year's, and they are loathe to try any blackeyed peas (which is apparently only fit for livestock up North). So .... they eat their sauerkraut, I eat blackeyed peas & my husband has a bit of both. BOOK BANNING -- Stephanie, I live in Houston so we're neighbors! You might not be aware that the Santa Fe school district also had a recent HP brouhaha (Santa Fe is in Galveston County). It was resolved (I think) by allowing children to borrow the HP books from the library with a parental permission form and they can bring their own copies from home. The teachers, however, cannot read the books to the classes. It's so insane really. My sister teaches in a suburb of Austin, and she read SS & CoS to her 3rd graders last spring with no complaints whatsoever. I guess it just depends on the general demographics of each school district. The Santa Fe school district, shortly after their HP issues, attempted to ban any books that contained even a single profane word (so that they would have ended up banning classics such as Where the Red Fern Grows & Call of the Wild). This was defeated by only one vote (4-3). I suspect strongly that 90% of the people who favor banning the HP books have *not* read the books. They are simply going on hearsay ... preconceived notions, etc. > Sorry about that it is the third book and the person is Ginny, Mea Culpa. > It is Ginny who is rescued and is holding tightly to Harry. > Don and Penguinie Embarrassed Penguin > The bookcover of PoA (3rd book) in the US depicts Harry & Hermione on Buckbeak, the hippogriff. BEACHAM BOOK -- Heidi, I assume you are coordinating the recent requests to be added to the list (Steve, Trina, etc.)? Penny (catching up!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Dec 18 20:16:49 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:16:49 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World References: <91lg63+8e5b@eGroups.com> <014401c06923$68d475e0$8b148cd4@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <009301c0692f$89305780$b93670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7240 Ebony said: <<>> Michelle cried, in an alarmed fashion: <<>> Oh no, no, no,no, NO! There's a whole series of rambling messages from me about Dumbledore *perhaps* not being as white as snow. I was lightly toasted, if not flamed, for even thinking such a thing. Please, let's not dredge up my sins... *** Heidi said, in response to Ebony: << No: HPFGUIDX 7241 That's funny... I've never been carded for streamer poppers, or christmas crackers, or fireworks or spray paint or really anything like that before. I guess it makes a difference where you are in the US. I'm curious about the cap guns now. I've seen them fairly recently, but I haven't really looked lately. I'll have to check that out. By the way, the Museum Company stores carry Christmas crackers too, if you have one nearby. Meredith ** That is incredible, even hypocritical. ** ** In a country where people defend their right to carry guns ** so strongly I ** can't believe they have done that to innocent child's toys! ** Here most boys ** have a cap gun or two in the cupboard, and we have party ** poppers, sparklers, ** etc for parties. ** ** Cap guns - Some use two long strips of paper glued together ** with dots of ** powder which get hit by the hammer as the strip feeds ** through. Others have ** red plastic rings with six pits each of which has gunpowder ** in the bottom, ** and these load into a revolver which turns the barrel to hit ** each one in ** turn. The paper ones are more fun -- you can burn the whole ** roll and make ** lots of bangs :-) ** ** Simon. ** ** > Actually, the party streamers, where I live, you have to ** show ID that you ** > are 16 to buy them, and they dnot have cap guns anywhere ** but antique ** stores ** > now ;) It is crazy....You have to have ID and be at ** least 17 to buy ** Spray ** > Paint or even Rubber cement....But thats America For You!! ** Gotta keep the ** > citizens safe! ** > ** > Stephanie ** ** ** ** -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor ** -------------------------~-~> ** Big News - eGroups is becoming Yahoo! Groups ** Click here for more details: ** http://click.egroups.com/1/10801/1/_/_/_/977044014/ ** ------------------------------------------------------------- ** --------_-> ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Dec 18 20:23:00 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:23:00 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World References: <91lg63+8e5b@eGroups.com> <014401c06923$68d475e0$8b148cd4@tmeltcds> <009301c0692f$89305780$b93670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <004701c06930$52a0f200$63128cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7242 > << two-facedness, have you? :) I don't think he's bad. Just a > marked wizard--he won't survive the canon, poor thing.>>> > > Michelle cried, in an alarmed fashion: > > << Can somebody give me an idea where to find the relevant > post, please ?>>> > > Oh no, no, no,no, NO! There's a whole series of rambling messages from me > about Dumbledore *perhaps* not being as white as snow. I was lightly > toasted, if not flamed, for even thinking such a thing. Please, let's not > dredge up my sins... > Would still like to know where you get the evidence from. I am just interested because it has never occurred to me ( blind faith, I know ) but would like to hear the other side of the coin to be able to think about it myself. Please feel free to mail me off list, if you like. Michelle From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 20:28:54 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:28:54 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Holidays OT References: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> <016301c0692e$bc4dc7c0$82c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <01c101c06931$b6841f80$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7243 We talked a lot about Christmas that IS celebrated at Hogwarts and about the other seasonal feasts that aren't, but somebody only mentioned Kawanza without telling what its all about. I don't know anything and want to learn more about it. Is there anyone in this group that celebrates it? catrina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 20:30:59 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:30:59 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Various References: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> <016301c0692e$bc4dc7c0$82c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <01c201c06931$b7446240$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7244 I had cursivated some lines, why doesn't it show up in the mail?? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Sara Ludwig Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 18 december 2000 21:03 ?mne: SV: [HPforGrownups] Various That reminds me of The Satanic Verses. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Till: HPforGrownups Skickat: den 18 december 2000 17:20 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Various Hi -- EBONY'S FANFIC -- I just had to add my 2 galleons and recommend that everyone read Ebony's first installment of her fanfic -- it's really great! :--) MUM, NOT MOM -- Stephanie, I was looking at my American edition of SS when I said the US editions used Mom rather than Mum. You're right that they must have changed it to Mum by the time they got to CoS & later books. I'm seeing less & less Americanization with each passing book. I'm still not sure if I believe this because they just had less time to Americanize with GoF or if they actually are heeding the words of the fans, who would prefer that the Britishisms not be tampered with. HOLIDAY TRADITIONS -- Ebony, I think "soul food" must be just Southern cooking in alot of ways, as your soul food menu might easily be served by my very southern Granny but she'd look at you like you were crazy if you suggested it was "soul food." My family has also eaten blackeyed peas & cornbread on New Year's Day for decades -- again, it must be a tradition that has expanded to be very Southern in general. My PA Dutch in-laws (German!) think you're bringing yourself tons of bad luck for the coming year if you don't eat sauerkraut on New Year's, and they are loathe to try any blackeyed peas (which is apparently only fit for livestock up North). So .... they eat their sauerkraut, I eat blackeyed peas & my husband has a bit of both. BOOK BANNING -- Stephanie, I live in Houston so we're neighbors! You might not be aware that the Santa Fe school district also had a recent HP brouhaha (Santa Fe is in Galveston County). It was resolved (I think) by allowing children to borrow the HP books from the library with a parental permission form and they can bring their own copies from home. The teachers, however, cannot read the books to the classes. It's so insane really. My sister teaches in a suburb of Austin, and she read SS & CoS to her 3rd graders last spring with no complaints whatsoever. I guess it just depends on the general demographics of each school district. The Santa Fe school district, shortly after their HP issues, attempted to ban any books that contained even a single profane word (so that they would have ended up banning classics such as Where the Red Fern Grows & Call of the Wild). This was defeated by only one vote (4-3). I suspect strongly that 90% of the people who favor banning the HP books have *not* read the books. They are simply going on hearsay ... preconceived notions, etc. > Sorry about that it is the third book and the person is Ginny, Mea Culpa. > It is Ginny who is rescued and is holding tightly to Harry. > Don and Penguinie Embarrassed Penguin > The bookcover of PoA (3rd book) in the US depicts Harry & Hermione on Buckbeak, the hippogriff. BEACHAM BOOK -- Heidi, I assume you are coordinating the recent requests to be added to the list (Steve, Trina, etc.)? Penny (catching up!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Dec 18 20:34:46 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:34:46 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mom/Mum... Mam? References: Message-ID: <00da01c06931$f664f7a0$b93670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7245 We talked a while back about the origins of the Weasleys, trying to pin down their accents. The fact that the kids call Molly 'Mum' tends to knock certain regional accents out of the picture. If they were from Liverpool, for example, they would most likely call her 'Mam' and if they were from the north of England they might favour 'Mother' or 'Ma'. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From chrisworm at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 20:50:39 2000 From: chrisworm at hotmail.com (Christine ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:50:39 -0000 Subject: Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: <17179804.977167213807.JavaMail.support@p0d15> Message-ID: <91ltav+qv16@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7246 Thanks!!!!! I don't get it though, no matter what I do, I become the career- minded daughter, - clock ticking and everything?!?!? I can visualize my mom, my husband and my brother laughing their heads of!!!!! Christine - who, at least at the moment can hear no clocks ticking, and NEVER turns the d... cell-phone on! From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Mon Dec 18 21:57:55 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:57:55 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Board Game Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7247 Ok I was waiting to see if someone else posted about this but since nobody has so far, here goes. I have the SS board game (with 6 and 3/4 games). You can play all of the games by themselves, or you can link them all together. That's what we did. The game is set up like the challenges that protect the SS. The first game is Hagrid's Challenge (involving Fluffy) and it goes on. I love games of all kinds and play a lot of them and this one (as much as I love my Harry) was kind of lame. The games are very short and take no skill at all except MacGonagall's Challenge, which is just basic Chess in the game. I think the boards are cool (there are 6 that hook together) and I think interesting rules can be made to make it more difficult, but on its own, kind of boring. The Quidditch card game on the other hand is pretty fun. I got it for someone for Christmas and had to get one for myself too. I think it will be even more fun when we learn it a little better, but for $6 versus the $30 for the SS game, it's a better game. I haven't gotten to play any of the other ones (the Quidditch board game, Mystery at Hogwarts and the Trivia Game - I want the Trivia Game, Prefects edition!) but when I do (note I didn't say if...)I'll report back if anyone would like. Meredith ** -----Original Message----- ** From: dragonfrog at email.msn.com [mailto:dragonfrog at email.msn.com] ** Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 8:48 AM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Board Game ** ** ** I'm curious to find out more about the HP board game, not the Trivia ** game, but the one based on Sorceror's Stone, which purports to be 6 ** or 7 games in one, each game based on one of the trials or obstacles ** Harry, Ron and Hermione have to pass on their way to the Stone. I ** was wondering if anyone out there has already purchased and played ** the game(s) and could report on them. Is it several games ** that could ** be played as one ongoing tournemant? Are the games original or ** dirivitave of classic games? Are they fun to play even as an adult? ** I'd appreciate any response and review. ** ** ** -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor ** -------------------------~-~> ** eLerts ** It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! ** http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/1/_/_/_/977071709/ ** ------------------------------------------------------------- ** --------_-> ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From dhill52084 at aol.com Mon Dec 18 22:06:45 2000 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:06:45 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7248 What is IIRC Elizabeth, I am rather behind on the abbreviations. Don and Penguinie Curious Penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 22:12:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:12:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merry Christmas! References: <17179804.977167213807.JavaMail.support@p0d15> Message-ID: <3A3E8BC3.AD60A94E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7249 I was the Irritable Father. Humpf. Thanks, anyway, voicelady! --Amanda voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > voicelady at mymailstation.com has sent you an MSN flash animation! > > To view your card, please click the following > Web address any time over the next three (3) weeks: > > http://cardrecipient.msn.com/v/fhmdRbWjHm > > Need some help? See below! > > ********************************* > Perhaps your E-mail program doesnt recognize the Web address as an active link. > No problem! You can copy and paste the Web address into your Web browser. > > Here are instructions on how to copy and paste: > > Step One: With your mouse, highlight the *entire* Web address above > Step Two: Select the EDIT menu and choose COPY > Step Three: Go to your Web browser and *click inside* the window where > you normally type a Web address to visit > Step Four: Select the EDIT menu and choose PASTE > Step Five: Now hit ENTER on your keyboard to take you to the Web address > > Its that easy! :-) > > If you would like further assistance, were happy to help--please send > E-mail to GreetingCards at css.one.microsoft.com > > ---------------- > MSN Greeting Service is powered by Egreetings Network, Inc.,http://www.egreetings.com > > (c)2000 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Dec 18 22:20:48 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:20:48 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Every Flavour Beans/More Merchandise Message-ID: <5f.e699100.276fe7c0@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7250 In a message dated 12/18/2000 4:10:13 PM Central Standard Time, dhill52084 at aol.com writes: << What is IIRC Elizabeth, I am rather behind on the abbreviations. >> No problem... IIRC = "If I recall correctly" Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ you can never have too many Weasleys ~ From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Dec 18 22:22:22 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:22:22 -0600 Subject: Satanic Verses??? References: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> <016301c0692e$bc4dc7c0$82c116c2@pnxpg> <01c201c06931$b7446240$82c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <3A3E8E1E.E6D18BE3@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7251 > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: Sara Ludwig > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 18 december 2000 21:03 > ?mne: SV: [HPforGrownups] Various > > > That reminds me of The Satanic Verses. > catrina Catrina -- could you please tell me what it was specifically in my email (below) that reminds you of the Satanic Verses??! For the newbies, just a reminder -- please try to hit reply & keep the bit that you are responding to above or below your own comments (or highlighted in some manner) so that everyone knows what you're referring to. And, while I'm harping on admin stuff -- don't forget about those subject lines! Try to make them specific -- I did use the topic "Various" this morning, only because I was responding to a number of topics, none of which were all that significant. Thanks -- Penny > > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > Till: HPforGrownups > Skickat: den 18 december 2000 17:20 > ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Various > > > Hi -- > > EBONY'S FANFIC -- I just had to add my 2 galleons and recommend > that > everyone read Ebony's first installment of her fanfic -- it's > really > great! :--) > > MUM, NOT MOM -- Stephanie, I was looking at my American edition of > SS > when I said the US editions used Mom rather than Mum. You're > right that > they must have changed it to Mum by the time they got to CoS & > later > books. I'm seeing less & less Americanization with each passing > book. > I'm still not sure if I believe this because they just had less > time to > Americanize with GoF or if they actually are heeding the words of > the > fans, who would prefer that the Britishisms not be tampered with. > > HOLIDAY TRADITIONS -- Ebony, I think "soul food" must be just > Southern > cooking in alot of ways, as your soul food menu might easily be > served > by my very southern Granny but she'd look at you like you were > crazy if > you suggested it was "soul food." My family has also eaten > blackeyed peas & cornbread on New Year's Day for decades -- again, > it > must be a tradition that has expanded to be very Southern in > general. > My PA Dutch in-laws (German!) think you're bringing yourself tons > of bad > luck for the coming year if you don't eat sauerkraut on New > Year's, and > they are loathe to try any blackeyed peas (which is apparently > only fit > for livestock up North). So .... they eat their sauerkraut, I eat > > blackeyed peas & my husband has a bit of both. > > BOOK BANNING -- Stephanie, I live in Houston so we're neighbors! > You > might not be aware that the Santa Fe school district also had a > recent > HP brouhaha (Santa Fe is in Galveston County). It was resolved (I > > think) by allowing children to borrow the HP books from the > library with > a parental permission form and they can bring their own copies > from > home. The teachers, however, cannot read the books to the > classes. > It's so insane really. My sister teaches in a suburb of Austin, > and she > read SS & CoS to her 3rd graders last spring with no complaints > whatsoever. I guess it just depends on the general demographics > of each > school district. The Santa Fe school district, shortly after > their HP > issues, attempted to ban any books that contained even a single > profane > word (so that they would have ended up banning classics such as > Where > the Red Fern Grows & Call of the Wild). This was defeated by only > one > vote (4-3). > > I suspect strongly that 90% of the people who favor banning the HP > books > have *not* read the books. They are simply going on hearsay ... > preconceived notions, etc. > > > Sorry about that it is the third book and the person is Ginny, > Mea Culpa. > > It is Ginny who is rescued and is holding tightly to Harry. > > Don and Penguinie Embarrassed Penguin > > > The bookcover of PoA (3rd book) in the US depicts Harry & Hermione > on > Buckbeak, the hippogriff. > > BEACHAM BOOK -- Heidi, I assume you are coordinating the recent > requests > to be added to the list (Steve, Trina, etc.)? > > Penny (catching up!) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > eGroups Sponsor [Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here!] Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:24:18 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:24:18 -0000 Subject: Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <91llua+q6r3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91m2qi+d69e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7252 Hello Pippin and everyone else: > > Why not? (I watched "Romeo Must Die" over the weekend and > > something in this vein was said/implied in the movie.) > > Elaborate, someone! > > This is a basic rule of pop fiction, courtesy of a course I took > in scriptwriting: The villain must die in the last ditch. > If your story is a multivolume serial, then you can't kill the bad > guy till the whole thing's over, so Voldemort will be around (I > predict) till about 10 pages from the end of Book 7. In fan fic he will > be around forever. I hate the rules of fiction. This is probably why I am unpublished. :) Why not kill Voldemort at the end of Book 6, then have everyone begin Book 7 thinking "all is well" and the reader thinking, "well, JKR promised 7 books and this is just the denouement"... then smack 'em upside the head with the *real* villain- -Voldemort was just his faithful lieutenant. It would take *phenomenal* writing ability to pull this off. I know I couldn't. JKR easily could. > > I'd also like for others to add to the list if they can think of anything > > else-- > *There's always something fishy about the DADA teacher* Yes... unfortunately in my fic, Percy *is* the DADA teacher. Snape's dead. > *You can't apparate or disapparate on the Hogwarts grounds* Yes... unfortunately, in the alternate fifth year backstory of my fic, stealth Death Eaters breach Dumbledore's wards several times, make themselves nearly invisible in corridors, and murder any student walking them alone in cold blood. (Very Freudian... I'm writing out my phobias here.) > *Hagrid will exercise poor judgment* I'm not sure if he's alive or not. I think I'll let him be alive and working with Harry and Sirius. He's one of my favorite characters, hands down. > *No spell can waken the dead* I'd *love* for JKR to disprove this. Several fanfic writers already have. I think that the canonical climax would be nicely suited to a resurrection scenario. > *The bad guys, having all the info they need and all their plans in > place, will inexplicably wait until the end of term to attack* LOL! Yes! How about this one: "Harry, Ron, and/or Hermione will *always* end up in the hospital wing, hovered over by a fussing Madame Pomfrey, at the end of every Hogwarts term." Thanks so much, Pippin. I needed that--have to walk to class in double-digit below zero temps. And it's not even winter yet. Keep them coming, everyone! Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:25:32 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:25:32 -0000 Subject: Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <014401c06923$68d475e0$8b148cd4@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <91m2ss+22bg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7253 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > > > * Dumbledore is the greatest wizard of his age (he can't - hear > > the desperation > > > - can't turn out to be bad) > > > > Ah, you've been listening to Neil harp about Dumbledore's > > two-facedness, have you? :) I don't think he's bad. Just a > > marked wizard--he won't survive the canon, poor thing. > > > Dumbledore ? Two faced ? > > What do you mean ? > > Can somebody give me an idea where to find the relevant post, please ? > > Michelle I was just joking. :) Please see the "Gleam in Dumbledore's Eyes" posts here and at the Yahoo site. They should be in the FAQ one day as well. Ebony From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Dec 18 22:26:21 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:26:21 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World References: <91m2ss+22bg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015b01c06941$8cd90f00$63128cd4@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7254 > > I was just joking. :) Please see the "Gleam in Dumbledore's Eyes" > posts here and at the Yahoo site. They should be in the FAQ one day > as well. > > Ebony Oh, you mean the old " was it triumph or something else " idea that I've seen floating around other egroups ? Michelle From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 22:29:11 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:29:11 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Satanic Verses??? References: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> <016301c0692e$bc4dc7c0$82c116c2@pnxpg> <01c201c06931$b7446240$82c116c2@pnxpg> <3A3E8E1E.E6D18BE3@swbell.net> Message-ID: <020001c06942$0715c880$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7255 Yes, the way the book was treated by people that didn't ever read it. My italicizing of this part of your letter didn't get through, down the second half of the message. I should have cut the rest off, had I known there is this feature at egroups that makes formatting impossible. Some groups don't have it, btw. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 18 december 2000 23:22 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Satanic Verses??? > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: Sara Ludwig > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 18 december 2000 21:03 > ?mne: SV: [HPforGrownups] Various > > > That reminds me of The Satanic Verses. > catrina Catrina -- could you please tell me what it was specifically in my email (below) that reminds you of the Satanic Verses??! For the newbies, just a reminder -- please try to hit reply & keep the bit that you are responding to above or below your own comments (or highlighted in some manner) so that everyone knows what you're referring to. And, while I'm harping on admin stuff -- don't forget about those subject lines! Try to make them specific -- I did use the topic "Various" this morning, only because I was responding to a number of topics, none of which were all that significant. Thanks -- Penny > > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > Till: HPforGrownups > Skickat: den 18 december 2000 17:20 > ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Various > > > Hi -- > > EBONY'S FANFIC -- I just had to add my 2 galleons and recommend > that > everyone read Ebony's first installment of her fanfic -- it's > really > great! :--) > > MUM, NOT MOM -- Stephanie, I was looking at my American edition of > SS > when I said the US editions used Mom rather than Mum. You're > right that > they must have changed it to Mum by the time they got to CoS & > later > books. I'm seeing less & less Americanization with each passing > book. > I'm still not sure if I believe this because they just had less > time to > Americanize with GoF or if they actually are heeding the words of > the > fans, who would prefer that the Britishisms not be tampered with. > > HOLIDAY TRADITIONS -- Ebony, I think "soul food" must be just > Southern > cooking in alot of ways, as your soul food menu might easily be > served > by my very southern Granny but she'd look at you like you were > crazy if > you suggested it was "soul food." My family has also eaten > blackeyed peas & cornbread on New Year's Day for decades -- again, > it > must be a tradition that has expanded to be very Southern in > general. > My PA Dutch in-laws (German!) think you're bringing yourself tons > of bad > luck for the coming year if you don't eat sauerkraut on New > Year's, and > they are loathe to try any blackeyed peas (which is apparently > only fit > for livestock up North). So .... they eat their sauerkraut, I eat > > blackeyed peas & my husband has a bit of both. > > BOOK BANNING -- Stephanie, I live in Houston so we're neighbors! > You > might not be aware that the Santa Fe school district also had a > recent > HP brouhaha (Santa Fe is in Galveston County). It was resolved (I > > think) by allowing children to borrow the HP books from the > library with > a parental permission form and they can bring their own copies > from > home. The teachers, however, cannot read the books to the > classes. > It's so insane really. My sister teaches in a suburb of Austin, > and she > read SS & CoS to her 3rd graders last spring with no complaints > whatsoever. I guess it just depends on the general demographics > of each > school district. The Santa Fe school district, shortly after > their HP > issues, attempted to ban any books that contained even a single > profane > word (so that they would have ended up banning classics such as > Where > the Red Fern Grows & Call of the Wild). This was defeated by only > one > vote (4-3). > > I suspect strongly that 90% of the people who favor banning the HP > books > have *not* read the books. They are simply going on hearsay ... > preconceived notions, etc. > > > Sorry about that it is the third book and the person is Ginny, > Mea Culpa. > > It is Ginny who is rescued and is holding tightly to Harry. > > Don and Penguinie Embarrassed Penguin > > > The bookcover of PoA (3rd book) in the US depicts Harry & Hermione > on > Buckbeak, the hippogriff. > > BEACHAM BOOK -- Heidi, I assume you are coordinating the recent > requests > to be added to the list (Steve, Trina, etc.)? > > Penny (catching up!) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > eGroups Sponsor [Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here!] Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 22:33:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:33:34 -0600 Subject: New? Ravenclaw thought Message-ID: <3A3E90BD.4308BFC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7256 I had a thought last night--for those who think the Ravenclaw emblem should be a raven, it occurred to me that the term might actually have nothing to do with ravens. In archaic usage it can also simply be an alternate term for dark or black. Rowena might have been associated with an eagle (animaga form, familiar, whatever) which had black claws. Ravenclaw. Like raven tresses. Eh? --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:32:21 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:32:21 -0000 Subject: Distance Questions (was Mom/Mum... Mam?) In-Reply-To: <00da01c06931$f664f7a0$b93670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7257 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > We talked a while back about the origins of the Weasleys, trying to pin down > their accents. The fact that the kids call Molly 'Mum' tends to knock > certain regional accents out of the picture. If they were from Liverpool, > for example, they would most likely call her 'Mam' and if they were from the > north of England they might favour 'Mother' or 'Ma'. > > Neil Thanks, Neil, for reminding me. Also thanks for the Disapparating/Apparating discussion. That brings me to another few questions: 1) How far is a theoretical Ottery St. Catchpole from London? (Yes, I *know* we discussed it, you guys... just give me an idea of the discussion header.) 2) Is Apparation instant, or does the time lapse depend on the distance you are going. 3) Lori calls protection against Apparation/Disapparation "wards"-- like D's protection of Hogwarts and the grounds. What are they called in the canon? Thanks to all those who've reviewed my fic... couldn't have done it without this e-group. --Ebony From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Dec 18 23:38:18 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:38:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: On the topic of heraldry Message-ID: <20001218233818.22153.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7258 Has anyone studied the hatching of the Hogwarts arms in the UK editions? As far as I understand, the patterns of hatchings are: Gold (Yellow) Dots Silver (White) Unhatched Azure-Blue Horizontal lines Red Vertical lines Black Cross-hatched vertical & horizontal Green Diagonal \\ Purple Diagonal // The artist did not quite hit the mark, as far as I can see. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 11:04:03 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:04:03 +0100 Subject: IS JO IN LOVE???? References: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01c801c069ab$688effa0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7259 I'M FLOORED! Just caught a tiny snippet in today's paper with the follwoing text: Joanne K. Rowling ist wieder verliebt LONDON - Ertsmals seit der Erfindung von Harry Potter ist die britische Erfolgsautorin Joanne K. Rowling (34) verliebt. Der Glckliche: Neil Murray, 29, Anstesist. Der Arzt hat brigens eine verblffende hnlichkeit mit der erwachsenen Version von Harry Potter. Translation: JKR is in love again LONDON - For the first time since inventing Harry Potter, the bestselling British author JKR (34) is in love. The lucky guy: Neil Murry, 29, Anaesthicist. Incidentally, the doctor bears an astounding similarity to the adult version of Harry Potter. Has anybody else heard anything of the sort? Far be it from me to grudge Jo her luck, but I can't stand the thought of some guy getting in between Jo and three books I'm waiting for. (j/k!) BTW, I'd also be glad to offer special rates on counseling for any broken-hearted guys in this group! Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From sara.ludwig at telia.com Mon Dec 18 23:22:47 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:22:47 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Satanic Verses??? References: <3A3E3956.39AECB03@swbell.net> <016301c0692e$bc4dc7c0$82c116c2@pnxpg> <01c201c06931$b7446240$82c116c2@pnxpg> <3A3E8E1E.E6D18BE3@swbell.net> Message-ID: <022801c0694a$0ad98da0$82c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7260 I hope I didn't offend anybody. catrina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 18 23:36:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:36:10 -0600 Subject: Off Topic Pronunciation Amusement References: <00da01c06931$f664f7a0$b93670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A3E9F69.A47A6A7A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7261 Neil Ward wrote: > We talked a while back about the origins of the Weasleys, trying to pin down > their accents. The fact that the kids call Molly 'Mum' tends to knock > certain regional accents out of the picture. If they were from Liverpool, > for example, they would most likely call her 'Mam' and if they were from the > north of England they might favour 'Mother' or 'Ma'. An off-topic smile for the Brits' enjoyment: My husband (well educated, well traveled American) was in conversation one time with a executive from Scotland, who was being rather officious about pronunciations of Edinburgh. He was lecturing my husband that it was pronounced /ED-in-bur-oh/, but continued that most people would say /Ed-in-bur-uh/. Etc. My husband let him wind down, then floored him by pointing out (accurately) that most people in America would pronounce it /ED-in-burg/. Which is actually how I (well educated, NOT well traveled), in fact pronounced it until after we were married. Goes to show ignorance and stupidity are not the same. I hope. --Amanda From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 13:09:11 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:09:11 +0100 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7262 *N.B. Some apologies in advance: I've missed quite a few posts recently and have lost the collection on my hard disk, so I may be whalloping on dead horses. AND my copy of GoF has also been stolen, AND I don't have a spell checker on this computer, so I'm winging it.* I've just finished gnawing on Heidi's and Ebony's Chistmas Dinner posts and am very intrigued. There are at least two fascinating issues here: (1) transforming matter and (2) creating matter ex nihilo. Obviously, they can transform matter. Otherwise there wouldn't be a course called transfiguration. But they can't make any sort of transformation at any time. Some things would seem to be more difficult to transfigure than others--and the difficulty level does not correspond to muggle standards of thinking. For example, turning a match into a needle is the very first task McGonagall gives the first years in PS--but turning lead into gold requires the philosopher's stone. Interesting. Issue (2) is more problematic, though. If Molly could magic unlimited quiantities of galleons or dress robes or baked Alaska or even cloth and flour into existence, why are the Weasly's poor? And yet, Dumbledore makes all sorts of things appear with a mere twitch of his wand. ("Drawing up" a chair, for instance.) And doesn't Olivander make wine stream out of Fleur's wand in GoF? In fact, doesn't Molly herself ejec--I mean, shoot--a stream of white sauce out of her wand while preparing dinner at the Burrow? (Or have you people lead my impressionable mind to remeber quotes that aren't there??[1]) So, wizards really do seem to be able to cause matter to appear, where none was present before. Three thoughts: (1) Could it be that magic does not create matter out of nothing but out of the wizard's power? Hence, a wizard with a huge reserve of power (and the ability to tap into it) can create a great deal more than a less powerful one. Perhaps Dumbledore has the power to create all the dress robes he could ever want. This thought could alos be mixed with Heidi's theory that particularly powerful wizards can manipulate some energy and matter latent in empty space. (A little QED could come in handy here.) (2) But perhaps the same rules that make certain transformations particularly difficult apply here as well--perhaps making gold from nothing would require even greater powers than Dumbledore has. (3) And of course, maybe we're just mauling Jo's stage props. Perhaps the potential and limitations of magic are governed more by exigencies of plot than by metaphysical logic. ------------------- 1. In passing: in the world of wizarding, guys aren't the only wavers of potent wands. Could it be that the wizarding community has solved the Great Envy? Could that be why only males experience the frustrations prerequisite to becoming major league bad guys? If only Lacan had read Harry Potter, post-structuralist Freudianism might have been legible ... ------------------- Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 02:19:57 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:19:57 -0000 Subject: Jo and John (Lennon) OT In-Reply-To: <57.f0eb36b.276fa6a1@aol.com> Message-ID: <91mgkd+9b95@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7263 Strangely enough, the more commercially successful > the books have become, the less objection I hear from the religious groups. > And I doubt JKR is going to pull a John Lennon in the 60's- > "We're biggger than Jesus". > Just some thoughts from Circe who's thoroughly enjoying the re - release of > John Lennon's In His Own Write. When you mentioned this I thought about the "Beatles Revolution" on VH1, a show on which Jo appeared. In fact she commented about this very thing, saying that John wasn't being in the least bit blasphemous b/c they were. (and they were) Anyway I'm sure that someone (Heidi maybe) mentioned this but now that I totally OT I might as well stay that way. She did mention that her favourite Beatle's song was "Hey Jude" b/c she remembered going home to University one drunken night and trying to sing it, and that everyone on her carriage joined in. "...And they weren't all drunk." stated Jo. Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 02:27:57 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:27:57 -0000 Subject: Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <009301c0692f$89305780$b93670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <91mh3d+h9a4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7264 > Ebony said: > > << two-facedness, have you? :) I don't think he's bad. Just a > marked wizard--he won't survive the canon, poor thing.>>> > > Michelle cried, in an alarmed fashion: > > << Can somebody give me an idea where to find the relevant > post, please ?>>> > > Oh no, no, no,no, NO! There's a whole series of rambling messages from me > about Dumbledore *perhaps* not being as white as snow. I was lightly > toasted, if not flamed, for even thinking such a thing. Please, let's not > dredge up my sins... > Yeah this topic was beaten to death awhile back, partially by Neil (no offence) and I believe instigated by myself. The simplist explanation is that Jo is writing archtypes, and even though Dumbledore does make mistakes he is still, seemingly, and archtype of good in the same way that Voldemort is an archtype of bad... Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 19 02:41:27 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:41:27 -0000 Subject: Distance Questions (was Mom/Mum... Mam?) In-Reply-To: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91mhsn+6l32@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7265 Ebony inquired- > 1) How far is a theoretical Ottery St. Catchpole from London? (Yes, I *know* we discussed it, you guys... just give me an idea of the discussion header.) I'm almost positive that this was thought to be somwhere near Exeter. I think there are some maps posted in the file section only I couldn't find them. > > 2) Is Apparation instant, or does the time lapse depend on the > distance you are going. I would think that some amount of time elapses but I think it is most likely not a long period. Seconds maybe??? > > 3) Lori calls protection against Apparation/Disapparation "wards"-- > like D's protection of Hogwarts and the grounds. What are they > called in the canon? Hogwarts? As far as I know we only know that you can't apparate or disapparate on Hogwarts grounds. What name Jo has given this is unclear. Gee, it looks like all I've said is that I don't know. Wish I could have been a little more helpful... Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Dec 19 02:43:29 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:43:29 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) Boxing Day Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDCF@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7266 My favourite explanation of Boxing Day comes from my mother - it's the day that people stuff the awful presents Great Aunt Hilda gave them back into the box and back to the store for an exchange. Angela > > From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Dec 19 02:45:32 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:45:32 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] YuleBall@egroups.com?? Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDD0@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7267 > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Hardenbrook [SMTP:DaveH47 at mindspring.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:55 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] YuleBall at egroups.com?? > > At 12:30 PM 12/17/00 -0600, Stephanie Becvar wrote: > >Harry Potter works like a charm for Amy Cohen, helping the 42-year-old > New > >Yorker find dates. In July, she posted a personal ad on several web sites > >and at a Manhattan coffee shop. She described herself - then added - "I > >idolize Harry Potter." > > > >Replies flooded in and she is now exchanging e-mail with five men who > litter > >their messages with Potterisms. One suggested a Quidditch match for their > >first date. "It's funny what it's doing for my social life," Ms. Cohen > says. > >"They're good people, Harry Potter people." > > Maybe we should start a group for single Harry fans to meet...? > You know, this may not be a bad idea. I've grown frustrated lately that there is nobody locally that seems to realize what a fabulous babe I am. I tried one personal ads site but got no responses. Maybe I should start advertising myself as a Harry Potter fan! Angela > From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Dec 19 02:47:06 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:47:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mystery parallels Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDD1@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7268 > >Has anyone ever discussed the way that the Potter books seem to work > >kind of like mysteries in that there's often some sort of crime or > >shady activity going around, with the true culprit later being > >exposed. It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's > >always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem > >later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). > >Has anyone ever anticipated the twist? (I never have, at least so > >far). > > > >Charmian [Angela Boyko (StarChoice/Lincoln)] > I figured out the pattern in Book 2. I was still surprised in Books 3 & 4, so it works for me. I am always left shaking my head in awe and wonder at JKR's fantastic endings. Angela From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Dec 19 02:51:12 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:51:12 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDD2@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7269 > Issue (2) is more problematic, though. If Molly could magic unlimited > quiantities of galleons or dress robes or baked Alaska or even cloth and > flour into existence, why are the Weasly's poor? And yet, Dumbledore makes > all sorts of things appear with a mere twitch of his wand. ("Drawing up" a > chair, for instance.) And doesn't Olivander make wine stream out of > Fleur's > wand in GoF? In fact, doesn't Molly herself ejec--I mean, shoot--a stream > of > white sauce out of her wand while preparing dinner at the Burrow? (Or have > you people lead my impressionable mind to remeber quotes that aren't > there??[1]) > > So, wizards really do seem to be able to cause matter to appear, where > none > was present before. > I think Dumbledore "drew up" a chair that already existed, but wasn't in the room. It could have been a chair from his private den. Similarly, Ollivander may have conjured the wine from his collection and Molly had the white sauce in another pot. I used to think that the Hogwarts food was conjured from thin air, but now we know that the house elves prepare it, and it gets conjured up to the dining hall. Why Arthur or Molly couldn't have transfigured Ron's dress robes into something less skanky is a question I'd like to see answered. Angela From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Dec 19 03:17:56 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:17:56 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDD2@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <91mk14+7eui@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7270 I think it does have something to do with the power of the wizard. Dumbledore conjures enough sleeping bags for the entire student body in PoA. Could they have been stashed away somewhere? Possibly. (Tries to envision a chamber somewhere in Hogwarts crammed with purple sleeping bags. Maybe it's next to the one that holds Harry's non-existent fan mail.) Pippin From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 03:27:51 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:27:51 -0000 Subject: IS JO IN LOVE???? In-Reply-To: <01c801c069ab$688effa0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <91mkjn+102pc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7271 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > I'M FLOORED! Just caught a tiny snippet in today's paper with the follwoing > text: Translation: > > JKR is in love again > LONDON - For the first time since inventing Harry Potter, the bestselling > British author JKR (34) is in love. The lucky guy: Neil Murry, 29, > Anaesthicist. Incidentally, the doctor bears an astounding similarity to the > adult version of Harry Potter. > > Has anybody else heard anything of the sort? Far be it from me to grudge Jo> her luck, but I can't stand the thought of some guy getting in between Jo> and three books I'm waiting for. (j/k!) BTW, I'd also be glad to offer> special rates on counseling for any broken- hearted guys in this group! Poor Mike! :) Actually, if there is some substance in this and it's not tabloid fluff, I'll be extremely upset that I did not get a chance to submit my PoA/psychoanalytic lit theory paper this semester to the forum. If there is some truth in this, it could be evidence for the Freudian/Lacanian interp of PoA that I talked about in Sunday's chat. Ebony (who wondered why her last class this semester was FOUR HOURS LONG tonight when we're expecting more snow... anyone else want a white Christmas? We'd be willing to donate some flakes...) From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 19 03:36:26 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:36:26 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <91mk14+7eui@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ml3q+gt5a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7272 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > I think it does have something to do with the power of the wizard. > Dumbledore conjures enough sleeping bags for the entire student > body in PoA. Agreed. I was thinking of the same example. > Could they have been stashed away somewhere? Possibly. (Tries to > envision a chamber somewhere in Hogwarts crammed with purple > sleeping bags. Maybe it's next to the one that holds Harry's > non-existent fan mail.) LOL but Harry's fan mail isn't COMPLETELY non-existent: he got that awful Valentine from Ginny. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 19 03:39:31 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:39:31 -0000 Subject: OT Norwegian Christmas-sweets In-Reply-To: <20001218151242.14004.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91ml9j+jsdj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7273 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > > Of cakes and cookies, there must be at least seven kinds. Numerology? To go with the 7 astrological planets? > I will not go in detail on these, except to note that one very > common kind is krum-cakes. Okay, what do they have to do with Viktor? From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 03:34:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:34:34 -0600 Subject: IS JO IN LOVE???? References: <91mkjn+102pc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3ED74A.4489DE1A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7274 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > Incidentally, the doctor bears an astounding similarity to the > > adult version of Harry Potter. > > > > Poor Mike! :) Actually, if there is some substance in this and it's > not tabloid fluff, I'll be extremely upset that I did not get a > chance to submit my PoA/psychoanalytic lit theory paper this semester > to the forum. If there is some truth in this, it could be evidence > for the Freudian/Lacanian interp of PoA that I talked about in > Sunday's chat. Ooh, please recap the discussion Ebony (if not too much trouble)! I had to miss the chat -- actually, I've had to miss the chat alot in the last few mths. Hoping to get back in the groove come January. I assume the fact that Hermione is Jo's surrogate in the series has some importance with this discussion? (Penny with a gleam in her eye) > Ebony (who wondered why her last class this semester was FOUR HOURS > LONG tonight when we're expecting more snow... anyone else want a > white Christmas? We'd be willing to donate some flakes...) We'd *love* a white Christmas here in Houston .... but if you can arrange that, there will be 4 million amazed Houstonians! And poor Amanda probably hasn't seen any snow since the great snowstorm of 1986 in the San Antonion area. I'm sure she'd like a white Christmas too. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 04:00:18 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:00:18 -0600 Subject: Distance Questions; Secret Keeper References: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3EDD52.F0615AB9@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7275 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > 1) How far is a theoretical Ottery St. Catchpole from London? (Yes, > I *know* we discussed it, you guys... just give me an idea of the > discussion header.) It's either just east or just west of Exeter -- can't recall off the top of my head. I think just east of Exeter, so closer to London than hypothetical Chudley (Chudleigh). You can probably find an online source that will give you the exact distance from London or whatever if you need that. And, now a question of my own for fanfic purposes -- how would the Fidelius charm be performed and who would/would not be present? Would anyone other than the Potters and Pettigrew have been present? Would/could Sirius Black have been there? How would it have worked exactly? For example, would Lily (charms being her specialty from what we know) have performed the charm herself? Or, would the Potters as the recipients so to speak have needed a 4th person to actually place the charm on themselves & Pettigrew? We know Dumbledore wasn't there when it was performed as he doesn't know about the switch; neither does Remus. Does this lead one to the conclusion that only the Potters & Pettigrew were present or is there room for conjecture that Black himself might have been there? Any thoughts??? PoA is not exactly specific on this point -- any conjecture or theories welcome! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 19 04:12:33 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 04:12:33 -0000 Subject: Weasley hair (was:Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <91lg63+8e5b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91mn7h+ceil@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7276 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: The Weasleys are English. They live in Devon, near where JKR went to Exeter University. Ottery St. Catchpole has been identified as Ottery St. Mary, Chudley (with its Cannons) as Chudleigh, Stoatshead Hill as Stoke Hill, and even Burrow Farm has been found on the map. While typing this, I went looking for Ottery St. Mary and found their home page! http://www.eastdevon.net/ottery/ which says: "Ottery St. Mary is a town steeped in history, tradition and folklore. It celebrates its history every year during Pixie Day (the Saturday nearest to the longest day) and the Flaming Tar Barrel event (5th November)" Pixie Day! I'm inclined to think that the Weasley red hair goes with the name rather than by genetics. Altho' I imagine that Angelina's children have a somewhat darker shade of red. > In my fic, two third-generation Weasleys don't have red hair, but > the red gene managed to tinge the mothers' platinum blonde/jet > black alleles somewhat. I think that most of the Weasleys of > prior generations had spouses that were quite similar > ethnically--have we determined if the family is English or Scottish > or Irish? If one or two married a very, very fair Nordic girl or > someone of another race, it doesn't necessarily follow that they'd > have the carroty red hair. From kathleen at carr.org Tue Dec 19 04:28:40 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:28:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Truths in the Wizarding World Message-ID: <200012190432.eBJ4WDU13261@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7277 How about: YOU CANNOT APPARATE INTO OR OUT OF HOGWARTS! (Although I have a feeling this one will turn out to be false,just because we've heard it so often.) Kathy (dipping back in from lurkdom now that finals are over) >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >* You can't kill the bad guy > >* Wesley's all have red hair (exactly what this says about respective Mrs >Welseys' gene pool I leave you to ponder) > >* Slytherins are either ALL nasty or ALL misunderstood (depending on your >perspective) > >* Seekers have the most fun > >* Being an animagus is easier than most people think (given the number of >unregistered ones running around) > >* Dumbledore is the greatest wizard of his age (he can't - hear the desperation >- can't turn out to be bad) > >Is that the sort of thing you are thinking of Ebony? I'll keep thinking - > >Storm - who is a bit slow and was up most of last night up with a dog who is >neurotic (fireworks and thunderstorms - roll *off* New Years eve) and another >dog who swore she had bloat (but didn't - phew!) >-----Original Message----- >From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:29 AM >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] Truths in the Wizarding World > >Hi, everyone--think this'll be my last post for the day. > >After reading all four books, what would you consider indisputable >truths in the wizarding world? I'm making a list of them... and I >need help. > >Here's what I have so far: > >All mail--letters and parcels--are delivered by owl post. Period. > >Hogwarts is the school for magical children who live in the United >Kingdom (and Ireland, according to JKR). > >Harry Potter is the Boy Who Lived. > >I'd like to isolate about 5-10 more. Thanks in advance! > >--Ebony > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 19 04:36:21 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:36:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snow in South Texas. Hah. References: <91mkjn+102pc@eGroups.com> <3A3ED74A.4489DE1A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A3EE5C4.132E3F56@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7278 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > Ebony (who wondered why her last class this semester was FOUR HOURS > > LONG tonight when we're expecting more snow... anyone else want a > > white Christmas? We'd be willing to donate some flakes...) > > We'd *love* a white Christmas here in Houston .... but if you can > arrange that, there will be 4 million amazed Houstonians! And poor > Amanda probably hasn't seen any snow since the great snowstorm of 1986 > in the San Antonion area. I'm sure she'd like a white Christmas too. Well, I was actually in College Station then, which was the only place in the whole storm area that *didn't* get massive snow. We had an ice storm. But I have wonderful pictures of my parents frolicking. I'd never seen snow deeper than the dog before. And Ebony, I was going to point out that while we don't generally have snow in Texas, we most certainly *do* have flakes, so thanks just the same, but no..... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 19 04:42:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:42:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7279 A quick note on Dumbledore's amazing powers of making stuff show up: perhaps as Headmaster, he can draw on the school itself, and thus can create much more extensive stuff than, say, Molly making dinner. There was a postulate some eons back, about some mystical connection betwixt Dumbledore and the school, a la (for those who have read them) some of Charles deLint's stuff, about the house in Ottawa (Ottawa? long time no read). Also, there might be a quality factor. Changing the appearance of something is one thing; changing the quality is another. Hence a match to a needle might not be the same thing as lead to gold. And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of little)--at least not if you want to live on it. So it wasn't a quick note. So sue me. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Dec 19 05:22:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 05:22:04 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony In-Reply-To: <91iqes+7l4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91mr9s+qnpn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7280 > > But the scholars spent 1900 or so years being VERY uncomfortable > about Hannukkah, because of the Maccabee connection. First, while > Judaea was 'under the heavy foot' of Rome, people liked to avoid the > subject of Maccabees altogether, because it was that dynasty which > had INVITED Rome to intervene (as their ally against Syria). Second, > after the Bar Kochkba rebellion, grown-ups did not want their > children listening to stories that would encourage them to rise up > against the imperial overlords in a doomed rebellion and get > themselves killed. Which is why emphasizing Judah Maccabee and > his brothers as successful freedom fighters throwing off colonial > rulers is a very twentieth (now twenti-first) century thing. Our > (our = baby boomers's) great-grandparents believed that the holiday > was ONLY about the MIRACULOUS OIL. Anyone else have the Peter Paul and Mary Hanukkah tape? (light one candle for the Maccabee children with thanks that their light didn't die....light one candle for the terrible sacrifices, justice and freedom demand) From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Dec 19 05:23:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 05:23:23 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony In-Reply-To: <91lf7i+gbar@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91mrcb+104t4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7281 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > Thanks Rita. A lot of what you wrote I didn't know. There's just > one point that bothers me a > > bit, regarding the dating of Hannukkah. You say that it was > "adopted as a holiday in order > > to compete with Persian/Zoroastrian celebration..", but at that > time (Maccabbee rebellion) > > Judea was under Seleucid (that is, hellenic) rule. Was Persian > culture still such a major > > influence on Jews in Judea? > > > > Naama > Yes.The apocalyptic visions in the book of Daniel and the visit of > the Magi in the New Testament are examples of it. > Pippin Anyone read Howard Fast's book about the Maccabes? From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Dec 19 05:29:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 05:29:47 -0000 Subject: Accio In-Reply-To: <003c01c06875$d7365b60$dd3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <91mrob+2acs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7282 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Christian said: > > > We learn in GoF, when they practise banishing-charms, that it works on > > humans (Neville missed his pillow, instead hitting Professor Flitwick, > > who flew across the classroom landing on top of a cupboard). I would > > suspect that banishing and summoning works on the same basic theory, > > but applying it differently - thus summoning will work on people when > > banishing works on people. [truncated] > > I'm not sure I agree with that. I'd say a banishing charm is likely to be > an aggressive spell whilst summoning would be used mainly for acquisition > (although both could be for the purposes of protection). In a combat > situation banishing someone would surely be more useful than summoning them, > i.e. you'd want to push or hurl your adversary away from you. On the other > hand, summoning inanimate objects, such as weapons, would be more useful > than banishing them. > > Neil > _____________________________________ > Hmmmm..hard for me not to talk about this in terms of real magic. Focus on what you want exactly is the key to real magic. (was listening to a tape of Gerald Gardner explaining this). In real magic, banishing would be easier...you are basically doing a protection spell....or a bounce off spell...which requires much less energy than summoning something! You need to either have personal magical power (rare) or raise energy. The words/props, etc. ARE used as methods by which to focus your consciousness..hopes this makes sense...... From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 06:05:28 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:05:28 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New? Ravenclaw thought References: <3A3E90BD.4308BFC@texas.net> Message-ID: <006d01c06981$b089ea60$273670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7283 Amanda: > I had a thought last night--for those who think the Ravenclaw emblem > should be a raven, it occurred to me that the term might actually have > nothing to do with ravens. In archaic usage it can also simply be an > alternate term for dark or black. Rowena might have been associated with > an eagle (animaga form, familiar, whatever) which had black claws. > Ravenclaw. Like raven tresses. Eh? I think you could be right, especially as the emblem at the start of the UK editions seems to feature an eagle not a raven. Neil (my shortest post ever...) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 06:11:08 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:11:08 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <3A3ED74A.4489DE1A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91mu5s+au9i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7284 WARNING: This is extremely long. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: Ooh, please recap the discussion Ebony (if not too much trouble)! Well, this is what I *wanted* to say at chat Sunday. We chatted about various pairings at one point and I mentioned a tiny bit of this. There's only so much depth you can get with the pace of Cheetah and Yahoo Chat. Here's the Freudian/Lacanian support for H/H. Even if we never see it in the canon, there is definite H/H subtext... so no, H/H shippers aren't insane or blind. I've been working on finding the evidence all semester. The following is prewriting/brainstorming for the paper I talked about so much earlier this fall. Let me precede this by saying that Peg, Aberforth's Goat/Mike, CMC, Amanda, and some of the others who have much more extensive background in literary criticism than I may feel free to shoot holes into this 23 yr. old first-semester Ph.D. student's analysis. Freud and Lacan were my Waterloo this semester, and it took a long time for me to wrestle with their worldview and prevail. :) OK--quick English 701 recap/intro is necessary for any of this to make sense. If there was any way to spare you, I'd do it. The sentences that are triple starred are the main ideas of Freud/Lacan. If you're already in the know, or don't care, SKIP THE STUFF BETWEEN THE DASHES and hop to the bottom for the conclusions I drew from PoA, Freud/Lacan, and the background information that I have for JKR... but you may be a little confused. ------------------------------------------------------------------- QUICK INTRO TO PSYCHOANALYTIC LITERARY THEORY Remember Freud from Psych 101? At the center of Freudian psychoanalytic criticism is the concept that the human mind is divided into three separate yet interacting parts. Say them with me... the id ("inner child"), the ego ("rational mind"), and the superego ("conscience"). ***According to Sigmund Freud, our most selfish and infantile thoughts and feelings are constantly repressed, and only emerge in disguised form through neurotic behavior, dreams, and THE ARTS.*** Not long after Freud's theories were published, literary critics seized upon the idea of the unconscious. They recognized that the unconscious mind, as expressed in literature, is a rich resource of repressed ideas and emotions. For instance, Otto Rank stated that in literature, "the artist turns a powerful, secret wish into a literary fantasy." ***Thus began the trend amongst English types to understand literature by determining the content of the author's id.*** Then there were the neo-Freudians, led by Jacques Lacan. (Why does 75% of the theoretical basis of contemporary *English* studies come from either Germany or France? Had to throw that in.) Lacan posited that identity and language were strongly correlated. Children have no concept of self until they are able to understand the word "I" (known as the Lacanian Mirror Stage), and once the word "I" is understood, self image becomes a construct of how society perceives the individual. Before this point, an infant's identity is wholly wrapped up in a feeling of oneness with his or her mother. Once the illusory nature of that relationship is realized, existence and identity become signified (think of Saussure here) by language. Sadly, signification means separation, separation from the pre- language imaginary world, and hence from a whole feeling of self. ***In Lacan's logic an individual's unfulfilled desires are an attempt to rejoin the inexpressible that is lost through linguistic signification.*** We may try to put the inexpressible mirror stage (known as the Lacanian Other) into words, but the inherent symbolic nature of words renders this an exercise in futility. Even though language is inadequate for use as a representational paradigm, it is all we have. ***Lacanian lit-crit focuses on the tension that is continually created between the desire to merge the unconscious self (always associated with the mother) to the self that has been linguistically constructed. Additionally, Lacanian criticism will always emphasize the struggle that characters endure while trying to express themselves through metaphor that never captures the true essence of the unconscious concept.*** To sum up Lacan, I'm reminded of my favorite quote from Madame Bovary, where Flaubert states that "no one can ever express the exact measure of his needs, his conceptions or his sorrows, and human speech is like a cracked pot on which we beat out rhythms for bears to dance to when we are striving to make music that will wring tears from the stars." Pure Lacanian observation, or vice versa, since Flaubert preceded him by about a century. ---------------------------------------------------- This is the bottom line, as simple as I can explain it. >From all indications that I have, Joanne Rowling is not writing these novels in a detached, journalistic manner or as a work that can be analyzed via an abstract paradigm such as New Criticism. Neither is this work very postmodern?postmodernism implicity states that you cannot make grand moral claims about good and evil or right and wrong? -postmodernism values localized narratives over metanarrative-?it is plain that JKR is writing in old-fashioned, allegorical epic style. What we have here is a narrative that from all indications is personal. It is fantasy, which means that it is highly symbolic?- fantasy is pure imagination or *id*. The last 6-7 chapters of PoA read like a dream to me, more so than any of the other sequences. (Here I inserted long paraphrases from Freud's "The Pleasure Principle" and "The Interpretation of Dreams" to prove my point--I'll spare you.) The minute I re-read PoA through the eyes of an English grad student this summer and *not* as a middle school teacher, the Freudian and Lacanian connotations smacked me upside the head. JKR says the character that is most like her is Hermione. Hermione is not really a "Mary Sue" (as we term the concept in fanfic). She is rather a symbol (or a sign, if you want to be technical about it-- that's what in my notes) of JKR in the story. I've heard her called a "surrogate". Simply put, she is a place for the author herself to enter the story milieu and resolve some of the Freudian/Lacanian conflicts she faces. Hermione is JKR's rational self. So who is Harry Potter (the main character, the viewpoint narrator and the unquestioned center of this particular fictional universe) in Freudian/Lacanian terms? I hold that he is JKR's projected unconscious self. More than that, if the biographical material I've been absorbing is correct, he is the expressed projection of her aggregate unconscious desires-?for publication, for a change in socioeconomic status, for a place in the annals of time, for resolution to the deepest personal issues that she has and is experiencing. He also represents the ever-retreating Other in Lacanian terms... since the preconscious self (Harry) can never be reunited with the literate self (Hermione). It's interesting that while we're pretty sure that Harry has no feelings for Hermione, and that Ron is beginning to "like" Hermione, we have no idea how Hermione feels about the issue. If we continue with the Freudian/Lacanian reading, Hermione (as the literate self) yearns for union (sex, of course-?you *know* Freud) with Harry, but unconsciously knows that such a wish is impossible. (Please do not flame me by saying they're just children?-remember, we're talking about Sigmund Freud here. Quite frankly, he could care less.) However, Hermione somehow knows that such a thing is like wishing for the moon... just like no human can re-enter his or her mother's womb. With those glasses on, H/H becomes obvious. This is why I think that many of the adult fanfic writers are H/H. Like JKR, creative writers must muck about in these characters' psyches quite a bit. This next statement will not make any sense to anyone who does not write fiction, but H/H just seems to "flow" in post-canon scenarios. That's because these writers are borrowing JKR's characters, so to speak, and in doing so are borrowing her Freudian/Lacanian issues. Now, she may never write anything even remotely resembling H/H in the canon... Ron, from what I've read, is loosely based on her best friend. R/H is thus psychologically safe for her to write. No profound existential issues lingering in the subconscious inherent therein. That's just the H/H part of the paper outline... but that alone was exceeding my limit. (This particular prof values the concise over the obtuse.) I couldn't even get to the MWPP/Snape and Hagrid/Buckbeak analysis in the first ten pages. :( The biggest problem I have is that JKR has no authorized biographical material out there in book form. The interviews from Publisher's Weekly, Time, etc. were accused by one of my colleagues as being "carefully constructed fabrications straight from Joanne Rowling's publicist." There's no way to do this type of analysis with credibility unless your sources are watertight. You see, it's easy enough to do a Lacanian analysis of a fantastic work like say, Frankenstein... but then, Mary Shelley's been dead for quite some time now and we know plenty about her. JKR is still living and values her privacy. I respect that... but this type of reading requires that you know some "dirt"... at least the tinest speck. Remember, you must fish around in the author's id according to Freud and Lacan to make sense of anything they write. Heck, I *may* just turn in the paper tomorrow, anyway, just to see what he says. The professor won't kill me (I don't think). I can concentrate on Gates and Derrida after I get this out of my system. :) Whew. Sleepy. Time to go to bed. --Ebony From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 06:19:53 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:19:53 -0000 Subject: Slytherin origins Message-ID: <008001c06983$b3ef2380$273670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7285 Amanda's post about Ravenclaw started me thinking about the derivation of the other founders' names and I unearthed this interesting possibility for Slytherin (again, it may have been mentioned before): The word therianthropic means the worship of beings in combined human and animal form. The first part of the word is derived from the Greek therion, meaning 'wild beast', which could lead us to Sly-theri(o)n - cunning wild beast. Add to this the obvious connection with slithering and JKR's brilliance with names becomes even more astounding. I'm sure even she doesn't know how clever she's being... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kippesp at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 07:59:12 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:59:12 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness In-Reply-To: <918rmu+653c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91n4gg+3g89@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7286 Impressive. But I didn't see any puzzles??? I finally put together my "Great Hall" puzzle (the puzzle with the strange shimmer). I continue to be impressed with the detail the artist put into this puzzle. I don't think I'll spring for any of the others currently out there. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nick at d... wrote: > I've finally got round to tidying up my flat... so thought I'd post a > link to my Harry Potter merchandise collection. > > http://www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/nickHP.jpg > > Anyone else got a collection like this... or am I the only mad one > around here? > > Nick. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 19 09:22:40 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:22:40 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World Message-ID: <01C06A00.9FE4F360.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7287 Brilliant Pippin, I can't believe I missed the apperate/disaperate at Hogwarts one. Ebony, go for your life and yek! Re the temperatures As to "you can't kill the bad guy" - I know what you are saying about rules of fiction etc but I think that evil will always exist in the world, some of the 'bad guys' may die, but some will live on. If Jo let Voldemort live on (in what ever cursed form he is in by then - even if its just in his ideas) I'd not be surprised. After all (I think) that one of the fabulous things about these books is the level of real life parallels. There is not pretending that it will be alright. (think Hitler - some serving Australian soldiers were on the front page of one of the newspapers today saluting hitler. The man is dead, but his ideas live on - for reasons that escape me and I suspect all of you.) On that ponderous note Storm (healthy dogs, no thunder, quiet life) -----Original Message----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com [SMTP:foxmoth at qnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:44 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Truths in the Wizarding World --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > * You can't kill the bad guy. > > Why not? (I watched "Romeo Must Die" over the weekend and > something in this vein was said/implied in the movie.) > Elaborate, someone! This is a basic rule of pop fiction, courtesy of a course I took in scriptwriting: The villain must die in the last ditch. If your story is a multivolume serial, then you can't kill the bad guy till the whole thing's over, so Voldemort will be around (I predict) till about 10 pages from the end of Book 7. In fan fic he will be around forever. > > I'd also like for others to add to the list if they can think of anything > else-- *There's always something fishy about the DADA teacher* *You can't apparate or disapparate on the Hogwarts grounds* *Hagrid will exercise poor judgment* *No spell can waken the dead* *The bad guys, having all the info they need and all their plans in place, will inexplicably wait until the end of term to attack* Please feel free to use these in any way. Pippin To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 19 10:10:17 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:10:17 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) Message-ID: <01C06A01.394E05A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7288 Wow Ebony. Very impressive storm -----Original Message----- From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:11 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 19 10:29:50 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:29:50 +1100 Subject: Harry as a morality lesson/oppertuntiy Message-ID: <01C06A03.3B3A5A60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7289 Circe wrote "I got interested during that time but there was also an incident that was worrisome. My sister and her friend were suddenly making odd combinations of things. Then we found that she'd not been taking her allergy medicine but had been opening the capsules, using the powder. Next we discover a sheet of paper with "Hate Spells " on it. OK maybe this is play, but it was not good play. It resulted in many family discussions of right, wrong, religious issues, character and value issues. Actually magic wasn't an issue. They weren't things that hadn't been discussed before, but believe me, it was in depth then." And this is exactly why the books are good IMHO, the ideas would have still been there for your sister and her friend - they don't come out of nowhere - but the books allowed the kids to give expression to them and your family a opportunity to work though the issues. Maybe your family might have found some other way to talk about these issues - or maybe you never would have. storm -----Original Message----- From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com [SMTP:EvenCirce713 at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 3:43 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Be Forewarned:(Not so) Angry Rant to Follow: To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Dec 19 11:08:15 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:08:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A3F419E.A71B8D80@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7290 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) Our customers love it! "As a student at Hogwarts, with such delicious meals prepared three times daily by house elves, I found myself unable to fit into my dress robes. Then, I found Mrs Bon's System, which I enjoy at breakfast and lunch. Then, I have a sensible dinner, and enjoy an T-MRS snack in the common room. I've lost 10 pounds in two weeks, and I'll be going to the Yule Ball with a Quidditch Captain! Thank you Mrs Bon!" From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Tue Dec 19 12:31:05 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:31:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: <006101c0697c$0f9ecb20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <015d01c069bc$5c087480$0c2e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7291 > Since I loved her very deeply indeed, I allowed > her to slip in a romantic cd, turn down the lights and light her candles. > And I spent the next ten minutes prowling back andforth in front of the > tree, clenching the sand bucket in white-fisted agony. After ten minutes, > she blew them all out and went for a long walk. (Alone.) > BTW, since she loved *me* very deeply, instead of calling it quits then and > there, she found a shop in Bern that sold electric lights. I've enjoyed our > trees ever since. May I share a little Christmas Anecdote at this point? My aunt uses real candles and two or three years ago one of my cousins (both are adults, so it's not about children being uncareful), while picking up a present from under the tree, set her hair on fire and my other cousin who had just unpacked her christmas presetn, a nice book, used this book to butt out the fire on her sister's head. Struck dead vs. Burnt, great perspectives here Dinah From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 01:48:37 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:48:37 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: <006101c0697c$0f9ecb20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <015d01c069bc$5c087480$0c2e07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <004901c06a26$fba0e120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7292 > ... two or three years ago one of my cousins (both are adults, so > it's not about children being uncareful), while picking up a present from > under the tree, set her hair on fire and my other cousin who had just > unpacked her christmas presetn, a nice book, used this book to butt out the > fire on her sister's head. Struck dead vs. Burnt, great perspectives here > Now that was a great post! I'll have to print it out and show it to my wife as proof (1) that those candles really are dangerous and (2) that book addiction is actually very healthy. I might even suggest a new compomise: she gets the candles, if I get a big pile of books to beat out the fires. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 14:32:01 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:32:01 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <01C06A01.394E05A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <91nrh1+u2k6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7293 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Wow Ebony. Very impressive > > storm > Thanks... it's not a bulletproof argument by any means, but I'm pleased with the rough draft (which is way too long to post). It took an entire semester of wading through readings from my least favorite critical school to derive any meaning for Harry Potter. I'm weird--my colleagues in general found Freud to be a walk in the park and Lacan only slightly more challenging. Something about Freudian psychology must be in conflict with my worldview (I'm a postmodernist), because it took me *weeks* to understand and a lot of help from my colleagues who had psychology backgrounds. "No, Ebony, the mirror stage is not *exactly* the Lacanian Real..." The prof was cool, too... answered all of my questions. I felt pretty stupid for a time there, though. The problems I see with the paper are as follows: 1) THEORETICAL BASIS. This is entirely the critic's (read: my) fault. I'm not firm on psychoanaltyic criticism. At all. I'm at home with Jacques Derrida (who no one else in the class understood at all) because of my research on AAVE (African-American Vernacular English), Francois Lyotard (reading *The Postmodern Condition* was like a religious experience for me--you can extrapolate a perfect argument from it about why Western authors should *not* be the sole yardstick by which the classical canon is determined), and Michel Foucault (he, Freire, and their disciples may form a great deal of the theoretical basis of much of my thesis/dissertation). As I said, I don't have a Freudian/Lacanian worldview... there's something in me that just doesn't believe in what they're saying. (My classmates and prof said that this meant I was the perfect subject for psychoanalysis, so repressed was I. Whatever.) 2) AUTHENTICATION/CREDIBILITY. In English studies, if it's not in a book, it's subject to attack. Grad faculty here are very liberal and VERY leery of Internet citations... they may allow you one or two, but expect you to know how to use a library. And even some books are valued over others... the first question we ask when doing a review is "what are the author's credentials"? A biography on Joyce by a Ph.D. in English or European history has more scholarly value than one written by a pediatrician. Similarly, if you want a book on computers and composition, you want it written by someone who has credentials in both IT and rhetoric. Such a book on JKR does not exist. It may not ever exist for quite some time... as I've said, she seems to be a very private person. So while others may read her work according to other paradigms, good psychoanalytic treatment may be impossible for quite some time... perhaps not even for decades. Ebony From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Tue Dec 19 14:40:46 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:40:46 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] the Anne girl books Message-ID: <10.65d023c.2770cd6e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7294 In a message dated 12/14/00 04:50:32 -0000 Eastern Standard Time, "Susan McGee" writes: << Oh my goodness! I was just about to post about the Pringles (who Anne routed) in Anne of Green Gables. I'm astonished that anyone else has read ALL those books. Susan >> Oh there are lots of us out here. Who besides Anne combines that sense of hard practicality and dreaminess. In spite of being a H/Hr shipper( by default) I'd love to see Harry with an Anne. Could Ginny be an Anne? ~Circe From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Dec 19 15:09:28 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:09:28 -0000 Subject: Mrs. Bon's diet (was Thermodynamics & Wizarding) In-Reply-To: <3A3F419E.A71B8D80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <91ntn8+t7nu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7295 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: LOL, Heidi. Please forward my order, I need this. Pippin > Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? > Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) > Our customers love it! "As a student at Hogwarts, with such delicious meals prepared > three times daily by house elves, I found myself unable to fit into my dress robes. > Then, I found Mrs Bon's System, which I enjoy at breakfast and lunch. Then, I have a > sensible dinner, and enjoy an T-MRS snack in the common room. I've lost 10 pounds in > two weeks, and I'll be going to the Yule Ball with a Quidditch Captain! Thank you > Mrs Bon!" From amy at wintersmoon.com Tue Dec 19 15:41:28 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:41:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <00a401c069d2$27266450$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 7296 I've always wondered if the Ministry didn't have some rule or regulation governing what you could or couldn't "draw up". If any witch or wizzard could just create whatever he or she wanted, I would imagine it would lead to a very corrupt and immoral group of people. The Ministry seems to have rules regarding just about everything else. Also, I would think that you couldn't just create something out of thin air. All matter has to come from someplace. For Molly to create galleons, she'd have to have something to start with - back to the whole Alchemy thing...although why she couldn't use some magic to alter Ron's dress robes is beyond me. I'm sure she could have done a much better job taking the lace off than he did - of course, she's also the one that keeps insisting that he wear maroon... Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 15:48:24 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:48:24 -0000 Subject: the Anne girl books (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <10.65d023c.2770cd6e@aol.com> Message-ID: <91o008+96ig@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7297 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, EvenCirce713 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/14/00 04:50:32 -0000 Eastern Standard Time, "Susan > McGee" writes: > > << Oh my goodness! I was just about to post about the Pringles (who Anne > routed) in Anne of Green Gables. I'm astonished that anyone else has > read ALL those books. > > Susan >> > Oh there are lots of us out here. Who besides Anne combines that sense of > hard practicality and dreaminess. In spite of being a H/Hr shipper( by > default) I'd love to see Harry with an Anne. Could Ginny be an Anne? > ~Circe Perhaps... Ginny seems Anneish in some ways, but not in others. Harry is more like Gilbert... he functions how Gilbert might have functioned if he had been the center of the Anne narrative. There's not a perfect parallel there. Most Lucy Maud Montgomery fans I've met tend R/H... I thought this summer that they'd lean H/H because of my own LMM fanaticism (twelve years and counting... I've read every single thing she's ever published), but Hermione's definitely not an Anne-like character. She's way too modern for LMM. And yes, Susan, there are many of us Annefans lurking about. I adore orphan kids from Dickens' creations to Cosette of Les Miserables to Seymour of "Little Shop of Horrors"... that was the main initial attraction of the Harry Potter novels. Children of all ages are my #1 passion in life, and unloved children break my heart. You'll find an unloved/unwanted child at or near the central focus of every single piece of fiction I've ever written. I've only recently (as in this semester) come to terms with the area in my own psyche that caused this. So all of the books I develop a passion for, whatever the genre, feature protagonists from broken or dysfunctional families... or have no family to speak of at all. I also have a hereditary disdain for those whose loyalty is questionable. I found Edmund difficult to sympathize with in "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"... and had a difficult time forgiving what he did (though I know as the allegorical Judas, he couldn't help himself). I'm also finding that I have a decreasing amount of empathy with Ron as the series progresses... I loved him in the first two novels but something about him nags at me while reading PoA and GoF. I think the similarity is that both of these characters were discontented with their lot in life, but their discontent IMO isn't quite justified considering the circumstances. The Anne-related point? Ron isn't a lot like Gilbert at all... Gilbert's #1 character trait is faithfulness and constancy to the point of being stubborn/obstinate. --Ebony From jciesla at madbbs.com Tue Dec 19 15:41:44 2000 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:41:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the Anne girl books (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <91o008+96ig@eGroups.com> References: <10.65d023c.2770cd6e@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001219104144.0079ba40@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7298 At 03:48 PM 12/19/00 -0000, you wrote: >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, EvenCirce713 at a... wrote: >> In a message dated 12/14/00 04:50:32 -0000 Eastern >Standard Time, "Susan >> McGee" writes: >> >> << Oh my goodness! I was just about to post about the >Pringles (who Anne >> routed) in Anne of Green Gables. I'm astonished that anyone >else has >> read ALL those books. Oh how funny! I've been thinking for months about going to my parent's house in Rochester and finding my Anne books which are boxed away in the attic. I didn't have room for them during college (small dorms) and they were forgotten when I moved because I barely had room for ANYTHING in my first apartment. After several trips to Canada this past year I decided I MUST get them back to re-read! For any Anne fans on the North American continent... if you ever go to Toronto.. don't just go to Casa Loma (amazingly huge castle-like house).. also go next door to Spadina. One of the scenes from "Anne of Avonlea" was shot in the Conservatory. Plus, it's a lovely house. I've also been finding more HP fans. The latest one was the new reporter for the newspaper in town. I was talking books with him last night at the City Council meeting and we both found out that we read into the wee hours the 4th book as soon as it came out. And believe me.. he doesn't strike me as a fan of anything but serious novels about serious people and serious topics. *grins* He did chastise me for not reading Agatha Christie when I proclaimed myself a mystery lover *sighs* Julia From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 16:26:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:26:10 -0600 Subject: UK Members: Wand Order Correction Question Message-ID: <3A3F8C22.4804C1AC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7299 Hi -- Kera Bolonik is still corresponding with me about the salon.com expose' on the "wand order corrections." She has some questions for the UK members if you can help. 1. Has there been any media attention to the correction over there? Someone said one of the bookstores is selling the later corrected versions for more money than the earlier printings still on hand, but I don't recall anyone saying that there had been any sort of official Bloomsbury announcement or other press attention. Wasn't it just like over here -- suddenly, we all noticed that the later printings have the passage "corrected" so that Lily emerges before James? Of course, if the bookstores are selling the later ones for more money, one wonders how they got word about the changes. 2. Is the "correction" handled in the same manner as over here? That is, did they simply change the names & pronouns & not really rework the scene itself to any great extent? Thanks! Penny From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Tue Dec 19 16:25:13 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:25:13 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Expecto Patronum! (filk) Message-ID: <9e.db1f322.2770e5e9@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7300 In a message dated 12/17/00 5:59:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Caius Marcius" writes: << Expecto Patronum! (to the tune of Hukuna Matata, from The Lion King) (The Scene opens to reveal HARRY POTTER AND REMUS LUPIN in the History of Magic classroom) >> All I want to know is- HOW are you consistently geting better and beter at these. Each time I think they can't get better, and then they do. Are these posted, compiles anyplace. I hate that I may have missed even one, and it certainly would be a fast "smile bringer" ( being conservative here) to look through them! Help, help, I sound like a gushing fan. I can't stop myself! ~ Circe From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 19 16:27:02 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:27:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard dieting References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> <3A3F419E.A71B8D80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A3F8C55.FEEB34F2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7301 Now this one might be worth forwarding on to JKR. What a hysterical turn of my innocent little theory. I want some of the nonpermanent food, too.... --Amanda heidi wrote: > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. > > Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? > Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) > Our customers love it! "As a student at Hogwarts, with such delicious meals prepared > three times daily by house elves, I found myself unable to fit into my dress robes. > Then, I found Mrs Bon's System, which I enjoy at breakfast and lunch. Then, I have a > sensible dinner, and enjoy an T-MRS snack in the common room. I've lost 10 pounds in > two weeks, and I'll be going to the Yule Ball with a Quidditch Captain! Thank you > Mrs Bon!" > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 19 16:33:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:33:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: <006101c0697c$0f9ecb20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <015d01c069bc$5c087480$0c2e07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c06a26$fba0e120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A3F8DBC.7AC67710@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7302 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > (2) that book addiction is actually very healthy. Well, it depends. You *are* a goat; do you read them or eat them? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Dec 19 16:35:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:35:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Expecto Patronum! (filk) References: <9e.db1f322.2770e5e9@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A3F8E59.10E0F9E1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7303 Um, if I broached the subject to my brother that he record some of these--my brothers are musicians and have creditable (albeit not record-company level) in-house studio equipment--would anyone be interested? Cassette, I'd imagine. Thoughts? --Amanda EvenCirce713 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/17/00 5:59:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Caius Marcius" > writes: > > << Expecto Patronum! > > (to the tune of Hukuna Matata, from The Lion King) > > (The Scene opens to reveal HARRY POTTER AND REMUS LUPIN in the > History of Magic classroom) >> > All I want to know is- HOW are you consistently geting better and beter at > these. Each time I think they can't get better, and then they do. Are these > posted, compiles anyplace. I hate that I may have missed even one, and it > certainly would be a fast "smile bringer" ( being conservative here) to look > through them! > Help, help, I sound like a gushing fan. I can't stop myself! > ~ Circe > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 16:50:40 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:50:40 -0000 Subject: Weasley hair (was:Truths in the Wizarding World In-Reply-To: <91mn7h+ceil@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91o3l0+h7m4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7304 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > The Weasleys are English.... Thanks, Rita, Neil, and Scott. You'll be duly thanked in the next chapter. :) > I'm inclined to think that the Weasley red hair goes with the name > rather than by genetics. Altho' I imagine that Angelina's children > have a somewhat darker shade of red. When doing Malinda's descrip. I went for chesnut brown with red highlights, with a texture that's closer to her dad's than her mom's. Interracial kids seem to follow no hard and fast rule... they break family phenotypic patterns. I had the perfect real life example for describing a child from a Fred/Angelina pairing. My childhood best friend's French/German-Canadian minister dad is white, has flaming red hair and beard (which is now graying) and blue-gray eyes. He was slightly tall and wide... sort of what I think Fred might look like in his 50s. I've met some of his relatives and seen pictures... they're much the same, but a few do have brown hair. Her mother is black, *much* darker skinned than I expect Angelina is, with very kinky or "nappy" hair (she wore it in an attractive natural when we were in middle school). My buddy has very curly, bushy dark brown hair, ivory skin, and hazel-green eyes. But her brothers and sisters (there's six of them) run the gamut from phenotypically white to phenotypically black to the "you can't tell" category my 'girl falls into. Her older sister has chesnut brown, straight hair with red highlights. That's where I coined Malinda's hair color from. Charlie's wife is "Hispanic", but phenotypically white. Lizeth is Argentinian (yes, I know that's not a proper Spanish name... leave me alone!) but is a Draco type... maybe they're somehow related. The model for Lizeth is an Argentinian exchange student that graduated with us... one of my buds' parents were her host family. Natalia was platinum blonde, had the palest of ivory skins (she sunburned something awful) grey eyes, and delicate features. (Isn't Argentina where a lot of SS/Nazi refugees hid out?) Yet she said that she wasn't white... she was Argentinian. (Sidenote: A little known historical fact is that in 1859, African slaves made up a substantial minority percentage of the Argentinian population... according to records from that year, 35% or more of Buenos Aires' population was black. Today, the percentage of Argentinians that are phenotypically black is statistically negligible. I can't recall offhand the ethnographer whose work I read this in... I'm at work. But the conclusion, barring genocide or deportment (I know absolutely nothing of Argentina's history) is that they were absorbed into the gene pool.) Charlie and Lizeth's daughter has strawberry blonde hair in my fic. Authorial prerogative, but probably wrong. As far as I know, the genes that indicate blonde hair are recessive. Elizabeth Molina should probably have hair just as red as her cousins born to Percy and Penelope. It's interesting, but interracial folks are very underrepresented in fiction. Those who find their way into the spotlight usually follow a convention that we litereuses call "the tragic mulatto". Of course, that goes back to my soapbox about the modern conception of race being a social construct that was ideologically convenient for indoctrination purposes. Most people will believe anything that's comfortable. We've said it before, but I think it's beyond cool that the magical world mentions race as an aside of no more import than eye color or hair texture. Culture and nationality are completely different matters... I do like JKR's characterization of Seamus as Irish, for instance. --Ebony From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 19 16:53:26 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:53:26 -0000 Subject: Expecto Patronum! (filk) In-Reply-To: <9e.db1f322.2770e5e9@aol.com> Message-ID: <91o3q6+rksb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7305 > Are these > posted, compiles anyplace. I hate that I may have missed even one, and it > certainly would be a fast "smile bringer" These will be published on the Lexicon web site, by permission of course (I'm a librarian--I get really scary about copyrights). I haven't created the pages yet (or figured out how to logically tie them in with the rest of the site) but expect them in the next few days. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 17:06:15 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:06:15 -0000 Subject: Expecto Patronum! (filk) In-Reply-To: <3A3F8E59.10E0F9E1@texas.net> Message-ID: <91o4i7+3g30@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7306 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Um, if I broached the subject to my brother that he record some of these--my > brothers are musicians and have creditable (albeit not record-company level) > in-house studio equipment--would anyone be interested? Cassette, I'd imagine. > Thoughts? None of import. I just wish *I* could sing. BTW, what kind of flakes do you have in Texas? (I meant flurries, but I was posting after a 20 hour day... please, cut me some slack! :)) --Ebony From dhill52084 at aol.com Tue Dec 19 17:33:06 2000 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:33:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7307 Hi Voicelady, If that is right then Hermoine is a redhead and I am not the dolt I thought. This is when they go to rescue the Godfather. right? It is Ginny that Harry resues in book 2 and they leave hlding the tail of the pheonix, right? Don and Penguinie Confused Penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 18:02:04 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:02:04 -0600 Subject: Freud/Lacan & H/H; Snow in TX (OT) References: <91o4i7+3g30@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3FA29C.B9EA83F4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7308 Hi -- Thanks Ebony for posting that very detailed analysis! Despite the fact that I know (or remember) very little literary crit theory from my college days, I'm duly impressed. I'm of course glad to see there is a bit more support for the H/H theories than some might believe. Can you explain why Hermione isn't in fact a Mary Sue? I think Simon brought this up before you rejoined us. I don't think she is, but I'm not entirely clear why I believe this to be so. I'd love to hear the explanation from the English lit analysis. > It's interesting that while we're pretty sure that Harry has > no feelings for Hermione, and that Ron is beginning to "like" > Hermione, we have no idea how Hermione feels about the issue. If we continue > with the Freudian/Lacanian reading, Hermione (as the literate self) > yearns for union (sex, of course-?you *know* Freud) with Harry, > but unconsciously knows that such a wish is impossible. (Please do not > flame me by saying they're just children?-remember, we're > talking about Sigmund Freud here. Quite frankly, he could care less.) > However, Hermione somehow knows that such a thing is like wishing for > the moon... just like no human can re-enter his or her mother's > womb. > > With those glasses on, H/H becomes obvious. > Is it that H/H becomes obvious or the Farmer in the Dell theory? Good luck with the paper Ebony -- I hope you get to do it next semester! It sounds fascinating. Ebony wrote: > BTW, what kind of flakes do you have in Texas? (I meant flurries, > but I was posting after a 20 hour day... please, cut me some > slack! :)) Amanda was generalizing a bit I think -- we get considerably more than flakes in large portions of Texas. I grew up in western TX and went to college up in the panhandle -- we had reasonably frequent snow & ice storms out that way (it's already snowed twice in that area this year I'm told by my mom). North Texas (Dallas) gets its fair share of snow & ice also. Texas is *very* large -- it's almost 3 times as big as the UK if my math is correct. I'm sure I'll be duly corrected if it's off. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 18:17:49 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:17:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry References: Message-ID: <3A3FA64D.F17A55E5@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7309 Hi -- dhill52084 at aol.com wrote: > Hi Voicelady, > If that is right then Hermoine is a redhead and I am not the dolt I > thought. This is when they go to rescue the Godfather. right? Don, I think you are confusing the cover art with the actual characters. The coverart & illustrations are done by an artist hired the publisher. The cover art for some of the foreign editions, for example, bears no resemblance to the books at all in some cases (I'm thinking of the weird Italian covers in particular). Hermione is *not* a redhead, despite how she is portrayed on the cover of PoA (US edition). She has bushy brown hair & brown eyes according to the books. Yes, PoA is when Harry & Hermione rescue Sirius on Buckbeak. > It is Ginny that Harry resues in book 2 and they leave hlding the tail > of the pheonix, right? Yes. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Dec 19 18:10:26 2000 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:10:26 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Distance Questions; Secret Keeper In-Reply-To: <3A3EDD52.F0615AB9@swbell.net> References: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> <3A3EDD52.F0615AB9@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7310 Hello all, On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:00:18 -0600, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >And, now a question of my own for fanfic purposes -- how would the >Fidelius charm be performed and who would/would not be present? Would >anyone other than the Potters and Pettigrew have been present? >Would/could Sirius Black have been there? How would it have worked >exactly? For example, would Lily (charms being her specialty from what >we know) have performed the charm herself? Or, would the Potters as the >recipients so to speak have needed a 4th person to actually place the >charm on themselves & Pettigrew? We know Dumbledore wasn't there when >it was performed as he doesn't know about the switch; neither does >Remus. Does this lead one to the conclusion that only the Potters & >Pettigrew were present or is there room for conjecture that Black >himself might have been there? Any thoughts??? PoA is not exactly >specific on this point -- any conjecture or theories welcome! Hm, it's odd, but I always thought that Sirius must have been there. The Fidelius Charm is said to be a very complicated spell, so I imagined it to have tow distinct parts, one for the Secret Keeper himself and one for the person(s) who are supposed to go into hiding. If Sirius had actually been the Secret Keeper, he could have put the charm on James and Lily, and they could have performed the part that should have hidden their secret in him. But I really don't see Pettigrew cast such a complicated spell. I know he's not *that* stupid, but after all we've heard about him I don't believe he would have been able to do it without practising it a lot (and where should he have done that?). That leaves Sirius to perform the charm on James and Lily, since nobody else knew about the switch. I'm pretty sure he was there. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From ldenell at apl.org Tue Dec 19 18:50:18 2000 From: ldenell at apl.org (Linda DeNell) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:50:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Expecto Patronum! (filk) In-Reply-To: <3A3F8E59.10E0F9E1@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7311 Hello everyone - My name is Linda and I work as a children's librarian in Wisconsin. We have a family full of Harry Potter fans (including the critters), and would love to hear these inspired tunes by Caius. My son and I giggle over them whenever a new one arrives over the e-mail. Happy holidays to you all. I will now return to the comfort of lurkdom... -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [mailto:editor at texas.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:36 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Expecto Patronum! (filk) Um, if I broached the subject to my brother that he record some of these--my brothers are musicians and have creditable (albeit not record-company level) in-house studio equipment--would anyone be interested? Cassette, I'd imagine. Thoughts? --Amanda EvenCirce713 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/17/00 5:59:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Caius Marcius" > writes: > > << Expecto Patronum! > > (to the tune of Hukuna Matata, from The Lion King) > > (The Scene opens to reveal HARRY POTTER AND REMUS LUPIN in the > History of Magic classroom) >> > All I want to know is- HOW are you consistently geting better and beter at > these. Each time I think they can't get better, and then they do. Are these > posted, compiles anyplace. I hate that I may have missed even one, and it > certainly would be a fast "smile bringer" ( being conservative here) to look > through them! > Help, help, I sound like a gushing fan. I can't stop myself! > ~ Circe > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Dec 19 19:08:18 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:08:18 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snow in TX (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7312 In a message dated 12/19/2000 12:05:38 PM Central Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << North Texas (Dallas) gets its fair share of snow & ice also. Texas is *very* large -- it's almost 3 times as big as the UK if my math is correct. I'm sure I'll be duly corrected if it's off. >> Penny, I'm in Dallas and I don't think "it's off" at all regarding North Texas or the size of the state. We just had a nice little freezing rain/ice storm last week. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ you can never have too many Weasleys ~ From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Tue Dec 19 19:22:01 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:22:01 -0000 Subject: OT for Flying Ford Anglia Message-ID: <000b01c069f3$78cf6100$0542063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7313 Have a reply to your private message to me. Do you have an alternative Hotmail or something ) e- mail address I can try as the address I have for you keeps throwing up an error message when I try to send it. Michelle From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:06:43 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:06:43 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <91of4j+aha0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7314 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. > I this is the best solution yet! It also ties in with Ursula le Guin's careful division of magic to illusion-change and real change. Did Jo Rowling ever mention Earthsea as a source of influence? Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:07:07 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:07:07 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <91of5b+aha9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7315 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. > I think this is the best solution yet! It also ties in with Ursula le Guin's careful division of magic to illusion-change and real change. Did Jo Rowling ever mention Earthsea as a source of influence? Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:07:37 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:07:37 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <91of69+q8qe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7316 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. > I think this is the best solution yet! It also ties in with Ursula le Guin's careful division of magic to illusion-change and real change. Did Jo Rowling ever mention Earthsea as a source of influence? Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:07:48 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:07:48 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <91of6k+lvsp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7317 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. > I think this is the best solution yet! It also ties in with Ursula le Guin's careful division of magic to illusion-change and real change. Did Jo Rowling ever mention Earthsea as a source of influence? Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:26:34 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:26:34 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91nrh1+u2k6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91og9q+9b6k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7318 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > As I said, I don't have a > Freudian/Lacanian worldview... there's something in me that just > doesn't believe in what they're saying. (My classmates and prof > said that this meant I was the perfect subject for psychoanalysis, > so repressed was I. Whatever.) > I'm reminded of what Martin Gardner wrote in his preface to the Annotated Alice (fabulous book, BTW, and very much in the spirit of this e-group), regarding Freudian literary analysis: "The rub is that any work of nonsense abounds with so many inviting symbols that you can start with any assumption you please about the author and easily build up an impressive case for it. Consider, for example, the scene in which Alice seizes the end of the White King's pencil and begins scribbling for him. In five minutes one can invent six different interpretations. Whether Carrol's unconscious had any of them in mind, however, is an altogether dubious matter. More pertinent is the fact that Carroll was interested in psychic phenomena and automatic writing, and the hypothesis must not be ruled out that it is only by accident that a pencil in this scence is shaped the way it is. ... Are the many references to eating in ALICE a sign of Carrol's "oral aggression", or did Carrol recognize that small children are obsessed by eating and like to read about it in books? .... The point here is not that Carroll was not neurotic (we all know he was), but that books of nonsense fantasy for chidren are not such fruitful sources of psychoanalytic insight as one might suppose them to be. They are much too rich in symbols. The symbols have too many explanation." On second thought, it may not be really relevant to your essay, since Gardner is referring to classical psychoanalysis and you're not. Still, I thought it very amusing and possibly insightful. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:32:40 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:32:40 -0000 Subject: Must have been Dark Magic Message-ID: <91ogl8+ps8a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7319 I do not know why four duplicates appeared; *I* certainly didn't do anything. Maybe this is what happens when you use these poor substitutes for magic. Naama, very apologetic. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:37:04 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:37:04 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91og9q+9b6k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ogtg+cgqg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7320 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > The point here is not that Carroll was not neurotic (we > all know he was), but that books of nonsense fantasy for chidren are > not such fruitful sources of psychoanalytic insight as one might > suppose them to be. They are much too rich in symbols. The symbols > have too many explanation." The only problem is, Carroll *was* writing nonsense on purpose, and JKR is not. His keen wit and satirical devices can't be paralleled. Carroll's art shares many characteristics of Edward Lear's... another eccentric Victorian writer often read by children. And I mentioned earlier that I usually *hate* psychoanalytic criticism. I agree that some of it borders on the ridiculous. The minute I read about Hermione's Divination experience in PoA, I related it to my own experiences with psychology. I can only tolerate the stuff when it serves my purposes... and it happens to do so in this case :) However, it *has* had profound influence on modern critical theory. Without Freud, much of twentieth-century psychology, philosophy, and literary criticism would be quite different. I try to keep that in mind. ==Ebony From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 20:50:08 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:50:08 -0000 Subject: the Anne girl books (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <91o008+96ig@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7321 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > I also have a hereditary disdain for those whose loyalty is > questionable. I found Edmund difficult to sympathize with in "The > Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"... and had a difficult time > forgiving what he did (though I know as the allegorical Judas, he > couldn't help himself). I'm also finding that I have a decreasing > amount of empathy with Ron as the series progresses... I loved > him in the first two novels but something about him nags at me > while reading PoA and GoF. I think the similarity is that both of > these characters were discontented with their lot in life, but their > discontent IMO isn't quite justified considering the > circumstances. The Anne-related point? Ron isn't a lot like > Gilbert at all... Gilbert's #1 character trait is faithfulness and > constancy to the point of being stubborn/obstinate. > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because of his relative nondescriptness. Hermione is very well defined and rounded, IMO, and Harry is also, of course. Isn't Ron a little ... I don't know how do describe it - pale, maybe. He's Harry's friend more than he is his own person. Even when he has negative feelings they are related to Harry (his jealousy of him in GoF). Am I the only one to feel this way? BTW, and just not to clutter the list with further posts from me, could somebody please, please, please explain what H/H, H/R and shippers (?!) are? Also - who the he.. on earth is Mary Sue? Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 21:04:56 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:04:56 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91ogtg+cgqg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91oiho+vvi0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7322 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > The point here is not that Carroll was not neurotic (we > > all know he was), but that books of nonsense fantasy for chidren > are > > not such fruitful sources of psychoanalytic insight as one might > > suppose them to be. They are much too rich in symbols. The symbols > > have too many explanation." > > The only problem is, Carroll *was* writing nonsense on purpose, and > JKR is not. His keen wit and satirical devices can't be paralleled. > Carroll's art shares many characteristics of Edward Lear's... another > eccentric Victorian writer often read by children. > > And I mentioned earlier that I usually *hate* psychoanalytic > criticism. I agree that some of it borders on the ridiculous. The > minute I read about Hermione's Divination experience in PoA, I > related it to my own experiences with psychology. I can only > tolerate the stuff when it serves my purposes... and it happens to do > so in this case :) > > However, it *has* had profound influence on modern critical theory. > Without Freud, much of twentieth-century psychology, philosophy, and > literary criticism would be quite different. I try to keep that in > mind. > > ==Ebony Oh, I agree completely (about the importance of Freud to twentieth century thought). I see the quote as just a wise warning against rigid overanalysis. Naama From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Dec 19 21:30:53 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:30:53 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDD7@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7323 > From: heidi [SMTP:heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu] > Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? > Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) > Our customers love it! "As a student at Hogwarts, with such delicious > meals prepared > three times daily by house elves, I found myself unable to fit into my > dress robes. > Then, I found Mrs Bon's System, which I enjoy at breakfast and lunch. > Then, I have a > sensible dinner, and enjoy an T-MRS snack in the common room. I've lost 10 > pounds in > two weeks, and I'll be going to the Yule Ball with a Quidditch Captain! > Thank you > Mrs Bon!" I think this might be the one way that the Dursleys could ever accept magic into their home - Dudsley could stuff his face and still lose weight! Angela > -------------------------- eGroups From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 19 21:50:32 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:50:32 -0600 Subject: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" References: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7324 Hi -- naama wrote: > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this > I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not > sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because > of his relative nondescriptness. Hermione is very well defined and > rounded, IMO, and Harry is also, of course. Isn't Ron a little ... I > don't know how do describe it - pale, maybe. He's Harry's friend more > than he is his own person. Even when he has negative feelings they > are related to Harry (his jealousy of him in GoF). Am I the only one > to feel this way? Well, I'd agree more with Ebony that my own discomfort with Ron has to do with my growing unease that he may be susceptible to betrayal of Harry because of all his insecurities & envy. And, like Ebony, I guess I don't have much sympathy for his troubles. He has a loving family & plenty of talents of his own if he'd quit worrying about what everyone else has. I think he's the weak link. > BTW, and just not to clutter the list with further posts from me, > could somebody please, please, please explain what H/H, H/R and > shippers (?!) are? Also - who the he.. on earth is Mary Sue? H/H shipper is someone who favors a romantic pairing between Harry & Hermione. H/R (or R/H) shipper is someone who favors a Ron & Hermione romantic pairing. D/G - Draco/Ginny; H/G is Harry/Ginny, H/C is Harry/Cho, etc. A "Mary Sue" is an original character in a work of fanfiction who essentially steals the show and gets the preferred romantic pairing (if the fanfic author has H/H tendencies, the "Mary Sue" character would win Harry's heart). I think I'm explaining that one correctly, but someone should correct me if I'm wrong. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 21:51:52 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:51:52 -0000 Subject: UK Members: Wand Order Correction Question In-Reply-To: <3A3F8C22.4804C1AC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91ol9o+vrkd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7325 There hasn't been a great deal of media attention - there was a flurry of excitement a few months ago when a schoolgirl 'discovered' an error but it was a very minor flurry. I didn't know that there had been any wand order correction until I saw it mentioned in this group. Since then I have been searching the bookshops (including the Borders stand at the City Hall in Glasgow when Jo appeared there recently) trying to find books with the correction because I wanted to buy my children a copy each for Christmas. So far I haven't found any. There has actually been quite a lot about Harry Potter in the media recently because of the planned broadcast of Stephen Fry's reading of Philosopher's Stone on Boxing Day so I would have expected that someone might have picked it up if corrected versions were available in the UK. But there again - it's perfectly possible for the media in England to be ranting and raving about something or another and we in Scotland know nothing about it at all! Pam From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Dec 19 21:34:47 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:34:47 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <00a401c069d2$27266450$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <01db01c06a06$cc839f60$3ac016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7326 I think that's the answer, Molly Weasley has no taste. She just didn't see that there was something awkward with Ron's dress robes! catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Amy Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 19 december 2000 16:41 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding I've always wondered if the Ministry didn't have some rule or regulation governing what you could or couldn't "draw up". If any witch or wizzard could just create whatever he or she wanted, I would imagine it would lead to a very corrupt and immoral group of people. The Ministry seems to have rules regarding just about everything else. Also, I would think that you couldn't just create something out of thin air. All matter has to come from someplace. For Molly to create galleons, she'd have to have something to start with - back to the whole Alchemy thing...although why she couldn't use some magic to alter Ron's dress robes is beyond me. I'm sure she could have done a much better job taking the lace off than he did - of course, she's also the one that keeps insisting that he wear maroon... Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Dec 19 22:21:45 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 19 Dec 2000 14:21:45 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's Ancestry Message-ID: <20001219222145.23886.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7327 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From duo at dangerous-minds.com Tue Dec 19 23:03:53 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:03:53 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mystery parallels In-Reply-To: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDD1@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7328 >> >Has anyone ever discussed the way that the Potter books seem to work >> >kind of like mysteries in that there's often some sort of crime or >> >shady activity going around, with the true culprit later being >> >exposed. It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's >> >always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem >> >later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). >> >Has anyone ever anticipated the twist? (I never have, at least so >> >far). Nope. Here's my batting average: Book 1: I was wondering who it was if it wasn't Snape. Quirrel floored me. Book 2: I suspected Percy. Half correct, I guess. Book 3: I thought the traitor was Crookshanks, myself. Book 4: Everyone's a suspect! ^_^ Nathan From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Dec 19 23:53:32 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:53:32 -0000 Subject: The Kiss Message-ID: <91osds+jvuj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7329 This may have been analyzed to death before I joined in August, but now that Freud has been dug up, why not raise the topic: what is the significance of Hermione's kiss at the end of GoF? What was she as a 14 year-old girl feeling? I suspect that I already know what Harry was feeling . And Ron. -Jim Flanagan "The Dementors are a symbol (or sign) of an autoerotic fixation on 1938 Plymouths." From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 00:07:06 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:07:06 -0000 Subject: Mystery parallels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91ot7a+is5g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7330 It seems like one of the truths of the series is that it's > >> >always the least likely person. (This might get to be a problem > >> >later, as everyone gets used to the pattern). > >> >Has anyone ever anticipated the twist? (I never have, at least so > >> >far). > > > Book 1: I was wondering who it was if it wasn't Snape. Quirrel floored me. > Book 2: I suspected Percy. Half correct, I guess. > Book 3: I thought the traitor was Crookshanks, myself. > Book 4: Everyone's a suspect! ^_^ > > Nathan I never suspected any of the real "bad guys" in any of the books. I did not think about Quirell, and would ever in a million years have expected Jenny. While in PoA there may have been some "It's not Sirius" leanings I never thought it was Scabbers...Book Four was yet another suprise. I didn't have a clue that it was Moody but then, how many people did? I found that revelation quite a shocker! Scott You know maybe the sad part of this is that I read LOTS of mysteries... From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 00:11:55 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:11:55 -0000 Subject: Mystery parallels In-Reply-To: <91ot7a+is5g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91otgb+4isc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7331 I (foolishly) wrote: > > I never suspected any of the real "bad guys" in any of the books. I > did not think about Quirell, and would ever in a million years have > expected Jenny. Who the heck is Jenny? Maybe that's why I didn't expect her! BTW, I didn't expect Ginny either... Scott From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 00:26:31 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:26:31 -0000 Subject: Healing spells in HP Message-ID: <91oubn+dd2u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7332 It seems like the HP characters are constantly going to the infirmirary in the books, mostly for magical injuries. But how easy is it in the system Rowling has set up for wizards to heal non-magic injuries? Can they just do a quick spell and take care of a scrape? As I recall, Lockheart attempted to take care of Harry's broken arm, and it seemed to imply that he should have been able to do it. Wonder why Harry and co. haven't learned those spells yet, as they seem quite useful. Charmian From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Dec 20 00:55:40 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:55:40 -0000 Subject: Hermione's Ancestry In-Reply-To: <20001219222145.23886.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <91p02c+7iqd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7333 Under the high security conditions under which the books are brought to press, I suspect that JKR simply describes the main elements of the stories to Mary Grandpre, who then creates her illustrations without having actually read the books. The girl on the cover of book 2 had red hair -- maybe she didn't understand that it was supposed to be a different girl on the cover of book 3. Now I'm curious - are there other "errors" on the covers and other illustrations? -JF > it's definitely Hermione with Harry on the Hippogriff. I'm not > quite sure why the cover art depicts her as a redhead, though. > Once of those mysteries we'll probably never know the answer to... From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 00:58:00 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:58:00 -0000 Subject: Healing spells in HP In-Reply-To: <91oubn+dd2u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91p06o+nov1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7334 Charmian wrote: > Not at all. > It seems like the HP characters are constantly going to the > infirmirary in the books, mostly for magical injuries. But how easy > is it in the system Rowling has set up for wizards to heal non-magic > injuries? Can they just do a quick spell and take care of a scrape? Unless I'm overlooking something Jo hasn't written much on the subject. In fact this issue as with many others in the canon leads to far more questions than it does answers. Some things that come to mind are- What type of injury is incurable by the common witch/wizard and therefore requires special care from a professional? If the regular witch/wizard could cure most injuries then what's the point of St. Mungo's or even Madam Pomfery? What made Mad Eye Moody's injuries incurable? See what I mean? Anyway perhaps there is a class on magical medicine but none of the trio decided to take it. Perhaps this class is even taught by Madam Pomfrey. Or maybe this is something that wizards learn after their Hogwarts education. (I KNOW Jo said there's not a Wizard Uni but I still don't exactly buy it.) Apprenticeship maybe? > As I recall, Lockhart attempted to take care of Harry's broken arm, > and it seemed to imply that he should have been able to do it. He most likely should have able to cure it, but then Lockhart's NOT the best example is he... Scott From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 01:05:28 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:05:28 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91osds+jvuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91p0ko+45hf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7335 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > This may have been analyzed to death before I joined in August, but > now that Freud has been dug up, why not raise the topic: what is the > significance of Hermione's kiss at the end of GoF? What was she as a > 14 year-old girl feeling? I suspect that I already know what Harry > was feeling . And Ron. > > -Jim Flanagan > > "The Dementors are a symbol (or sign) of an autoerotic fixation on > 1938 Plymouths." LOL at your sig quote! Hi, Jim and all-- "Bye, Harry!" said Hermione, and she did something she had never done before, and kissed him on the cheek. (GoF, 1st Amer. ed., p. 734) Yes, it was discussed. I think the consensus was that it means nothing. Personally, I agree. I've already established the fact that I have a psychology block that's insurmountable. :) Professionally (here the list groans), I'd say that it's im it's a prime example of the literate self's futile attempts to unite itself with its projected self, the mirror stage, yadda yadda... As a layman and an enthusiastic H/H shipper, I say it's worthless to our argument. I was H/H subconsciously before GoF, and was R/H for six weeks until I found PoU and this list. I pecked my guy friends on the cheek during highly emotional moments in high school and in college... big deal. I think JKR's throwing a red herring out there. My eighth graders from this summer are convinced that Hermione likes Harry, and they use the kiss as part of their evidence. "You've forgotten what it's like to be 13 and 14, Miss Thomas," they said. "A kiss is a big deal. Even if it's on the cheek." They're not shippers at all, they claim. "It's not a question of who's going to get together... it's a question of what's going to happen." They think their Farmer in the Dell theory will play out as a subplot in the next three books. Then again, my kids are American kids. I hear that in some European countries, kisses on the cheek are exchanged in greeting. I didn't think that was typically British, though. --Ebony (who is making up for the weeks she was off list by posting like there's no tomorrow) From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 01:07:38 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:07:38 -0000 Subject: Book Cover Illustration... In-Reply-To: <91p02c+7iqd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91p0oq+ac7o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7336 Now I'm curious - are > there other "errors" on the covers and other illustrations? > > -JF > Does that include merchandising artwork? If so there are about a million... My only other (in addition to the pitiful attempt at Hermione on PoA) complaint about the American book covers is that PS/SS, CoS, and PoA all show Harry wearing a read cape, and on the CoS neither Ron or Ginny have on robes or anything but muggle clothes. Scott From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 20 01:10:05 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:10:05 -0000 Subject: La Muerta Loca (a dramatic filk) Message-ID: <91p0te+7a6g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7337 La Muerta Loca (from Chapter 34 of GoF) (to the tune of Livin' La Vida Loca) (Scene: The cemetery of the village of Little Hangleton. HARRY POTTER, just freed from his bonds by Wormtail, prepares himself to duel LORD VOLDEMORT. Prominent in the foreground is the tomb of Tom Riddle. In the background, the lifeless remains of CEDRIC DIGGORY are observed). V (spoken): And now - we duel. (he strikes HARRY with the Cruciatus Curse, who falls to the ground, writhing in pain) V (music): You're helpless, in my power `Midst waves of searing pain You're pegged as my next victim To herald my new reign (HARRY struggles to his feet, aims his wand at VOLDEMORT) HP: Very well, if you must kill me I'll die up on my feet If I perish like my father Your triumph's incomplete VOLDEMORT (raising his wand, spoken) Avada Kedrava! HP: (simultaneously, spoken, aiming his wand): Expelliarmus! (Jets of light emerge from their wands, which connect and lock together, forming an incandescent golden beam. Their wands vibrate intensely, becoming increasingly difficult for either HARRY or VOLDEMORT to control. Enter FAWKES, who flies to HARRY, and sings the Phoenix's song into his ear) FAWKES: No matter what may happen now, do not let go of your wand It's about to take you to a place so far beyond Hold on, Harry Potter, just hold on! (HARRY and VOLDEMORT, their wands vibrating more and more intensely, are lifted into the air. The golden thread of light splinters into a thousand dazzling beams, which criss-cross and intersect in every direction, creating a golden, dome-shaped web) ALL: Beams of light connect! The Priori Incantantem! Blaze forth and project! V (angrily): He can't defeat me, he's a bantam! (A bead of light moves toward Harry's wand ? with immense effort, he forces it back to Voldemort, whose wand begins to shriek) FAWKES: His wand must now eject! (The ghosts of CEDRIC DIGGORY, FRANK BRYCE, BERTHA JORKINS, JAMES AND LILLY POTTER emerge from Voldy's wand, and converge toward him) HP: Look out, you're surrounded by phantoms! V (fearfully): Not what I'd expect! GHOSTS (mockingly): Now, Voldy, dear, don't throw a tantrum! (laughter) ALL: The Priori Incantantem! The Priori Incantantem! The Priori Incantantem! (the GHOSTS, completely without fear, dance menacingly around VOLDEMORT. FAWKES ascends into the light and is lost to view. HARRY and VOLDEMORT struggle to control their wands) HP: This really turns the tables Does Voldemort look stunned! V: First thing tomorrow morning I'm going back for a wand refund GHOSTS: What makes you think, dear Voldy That a "tomorrow's" there for you? You may be in moldy pieces Before we're finally through! (JAMES, LILY, and CEDRIC move toward HARRY, singing quietly to him, so VOLDEMORT cannot hear) JAMES AND LILY: We'll divert him a little longer, son, But you must then break free Return alive to those you love by grabbing the portkey CEDRIC: And return me to my family! ALL: Beams of light project! The Priori Incantantem! Now must disconnect!! HP : Cedric's final wish I must grant him! (HARRY breaks the connection, extinguishing all the lights. He runs towards CEDRIC'S corpse, dodging blasts from the assembled Death Eaters along the way. The GHOSTS make every effort to block VOLDEMORT) GHOSTS: Harry we'll protect! Leave Voldy alone with his rantin' V (finally breaking free): My power's again unchecked! (he aims his wand at HARRY, but misses, shattering a tombstone) HP (ducking behind a tombstone to avoid a second blast): But I'll live to do yet more enchantin' ALL: The Priori Incantantem! Harry's running now straight up the middle! (HARRY reaches the body of CEDRIC, and clasps it tightly to his own, closely followed by VOLDEMORT and the Death Eaters, who simultaneously raise their wands) HP: Farewell to you all ? and Tom Riddle! (he summons the portkey and vanishes) - CMC PS: I do not really believe that any self-respecting Phoenix would go around singing Ricky Martin tunes From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 20 01:29:13 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:29:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] invisibility cape References: <006101c0697c$0f9ecb20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <015d01c069bc$5c087480$0c2e07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c06a26$fba0e120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A400B69.9158ACFA@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7338 >From today's Top5 list: Topfive.com's Number 1 Warning Label on a Toy... 1> HARRY POTTER INVISIBILITY CAPE: "Invisibility not guaranteed for use in opposite-gender locker room or toilet facility." ================================================================== [ Copyright 2000 by Chris White All rights reserved. ] [ Do not forward, publish, broadcast, or use in any manner ] [ without crediting "The Top 5 List at www.topfive.com" ] ================================================================== From marty at martynet.org Wed Dec 20 01:35:41 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:35:41 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Distance Questions (was Mom/Mum... Mam?) In-Reply-To: <91mhsn+6l32@eGroups.com>; from harry_potter00@yahoo.com on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:41:27AM -0000 References: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> <91mhsn+6l32@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20001219173541.A20563@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7339 > > 2) Is Apparation instant, or does the time lapse depend on the > > distance you are going. > > I would think that some amount of time elapses but I think it is most > likely not a long period. Seconds maybe??? Wouldn't that be indicated by the Weasley's clock that tracks the whereabouts of the Weasley's? There's a point at which Mr. Weasley seems to be en route home from the office for a few seconds; it's not clear whether he used floo powder (which we know takes a bit of time) or apparated, but it seems to me that he did apparate. I guess this is by way of an introduction to the group -- hi, y'all! I'm Marty, sister of Meredith Wilson. I'm never sure what anyone else wants to know about me, so if you're curious about something, please feel free to ask. I need another discussion e-mail group like I need a hole in the head, but it's SUCH a relief to find people who will take my thoughts on HP seriously! And such an intelligent group you seem, too! I'm really looking forward to participating in the discussions here. Marty From marty at martynet.org Wed Dec 20 01:40:53 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:40:53 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net>; from editor@texas.net on Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 10:42:38PM -0600 References: <91lfne+ieui@eGroups.com> <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A3EE73D.51CB68C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <20001219174053.B20563@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7340 On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 10:42:38PM -0600, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > A quick note on Dumbledore's amazing powers of making stuff show > up: perhaps as Headmaster, he can draw on the school itself, and > thus can create much more extensive stuff than, say, Molly making > dinner. I really like this idea. I do believe that places, objects, even archetypes absorb magical power through magical use. Hogwarts must be saturated with it, and it makes some sense that it would be tappable by certain officials of the school (especially wizards of great power themselves). In the same vein, though, perhaps the kitchen at the Burrow has accumulated some magic of its own through years of use, especially cooking magic, which Molly can call on for dinner-making help. Marty From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 01:40:24 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:40:24 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91p0ko+45hf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91p2m8+knv0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7341 "Bye, Harry!" said Hermione, and she did something she had never done > before, and kissed him on the cheek. (GoF, 1st Amer. ed., p. 734) > > Yes, it was discussed. I think the consensus was that it means > nothing. Personally, I agree. I've already established the fact > that I have a psychology block that's insurmountable. :) > My eighth graders from this summer are convinced that Hermione likes > Harry, and they use the kiss as part of their evidence. "You've > forgotten what it's like to be 13 and 14, Miss Thomas," they > said. "A kiss is a big deal. Even if it's on the cheek." They're > not shippers at all, they claim. "It's not a question of who's going > to get together... it's a question of what's going to happen." Maybe your kids had something there. After all they're the same age as Harry and Hermione, and who would know better the emotions of a 14 yr old than a 14 yr old. However Jo isn't 14 and she's the one writing. Perhaps she is more inclined to look at it in the same light as members of this group. I for one agree with the latter, doubting very seriously that it meant anything at all. I'm not about to tell that to Ron though! Scott From marty at martynet.org Wed Dec 20 01:57:25 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:57:25 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net>; from pennylin@swbell.net on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 03:50:32PM -0600 References: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7342 > naama wrote: > > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this > > I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not > > sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because > > of his relative nondescriptness. and then Penny said: > Well, I'd agree more with Ebony that my own discomfort with Ron has to > do with my growing unease that he may be susceptible to betrayal of > Harry because of all his insecurities & envy. And, like Ebony, I guess > I don't have much sympathy for his troubles. He has a loving family & > plenty of talents of his own if he'd quit worrying about what everyone > else has. I think he's the weak link. I agree that Ron could use some development, and I would like to know more about him. On the other hand, that's one of his salient character features -- he's struggling to define himself. Psychologically, I like the idea that Ron feels comfortable in Harry's shadow because he's grown up in the shadow of his brothers, yet simultaneously feels the need to act out his conflict about that with Harry, too. About feeling sympathy for his angst: really, what does Hermione have to deal with, either? Her muggle background and her teeth? I'm more sympathetic to Ron's feeling of overwhelmedness and frustration/shame about his family's lack of means than that. Of course, we found that Neville has some really ugly stuff to deal with, and Harry, it goes without saying, so I guess I would place Ron in the middle...but he does seem prone to self-pity. (While I'm talking about this, I want to know why the benevolent folks at Hogwarts keep sending Harry back to his abusive home? They know too much to NOT know that the Dursleys actually torture Harry -- depriving him of food and locking him up physically -- aside from the emotional abuse. I really have a problem with that, and the message it sends to kids who read it.) > H/H shipper is someone who favors a romantic pairing between Harry & > Hermione. H/R (or R/H) shipper is someone who favors a Ron & Hermione > romantic pairing. D/G - Draco/Ginny; H/G is Harry/Ginny, H/C is > Harry/Cho, etc. What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an adolescent fling between Harry and Ron? I think it would be a rather sweet added dimension to their friendship (future or past). Given the strong feelings that were flying around GoF between them, the jealousy, the frustration when they were fighting, the fact that Ron was Harry's "thing he'd miss most," I don't think it's even too far-fetched. Now you're going to throw me out, aren't you? :-> Marty From marty at martynet.org Wed Dec 20 02:00:29 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:00:29 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Healing spells in HP In-Reply-To: <91p06o+nov1@eGroups.com>; from harry_potter00@yahoo.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 12:58:00AM -0000 References: <91oubn+dd2u@eGroups.com> <91p06o+nov1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20001219180029.D20563@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7343 Scott said: > If the > regular witch/wizard could cure most injuries then what's the point > of St. Mungo's or even Madam Pomfery? Oh, that's easy, to me -- Madam Pomfrey has a particular talent in healing magic. We know that wizards have "strong suits" already, right? It would make sense to me that "nurse at Hogwarts" would be a logical position for a witch who was particularly good at medical magic. That doesn't address the other question, about why some magical illnesses are incurable. I'll have to think more about that one. Marty From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Wed Dec 20 02:12:25 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 20 Dec 2000 02:12:25 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <977278345.6463@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7344 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: To approximately how many other E- groups, yahoo!clubs, etc do you actively*belong to other than HPforGrownups? (read most/all messages and post often) o More than 75 groups. Life? What life? o 50-75 groups. o 25-50 groups. o 20-25 groups o 15-20 groups o 10-15 groups o 5-10 groups o 2-5 groups o This is all I can handle!!! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 02:08:27 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:08:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" References: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net> <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <003501c06a29$bf2a55c0$7a45d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7345 > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an adolescent > fling between Harry and Ron? I think it would be a rather sweet added > dimension to their friendship (future or past). Given the strong > feelings that were flying around GoF between them, the jealousy, the > frustration when they were fighting, the fact that Ron was Harry's > "thing he'd miss most," I don't think it's even too far-fetched. > > Now you're going to throw me out, aren't you? :-> > Nope its called slash...that's a term used in fanfiction to depict homosexual pairings...there is a whole HP slash egroup out there somewhere and if you ask some of our nore learned slash members could direct you to some good slash fics and to the list if you're interested...or search egroups...maybe it will pop up... carole From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 02:57:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:57:34 -0600 Subject: The Kiss References: <91p0ko+45hf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A40201E.C1C9CC9F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7346 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > As a layman and an enthusiastic H/H shipper, I say it's worthless to > our argument. I was H/H subconsciously before GoF, and was R/H for > six weeks until I found PoU and this list. I pecked my guy friends > on the cheek during highly emotional moments in high school and in > college... big deal. I think JKR's throwing a red herring out there. Umm.... I wouldn't say it's *worthless* to the H/H arguments. Hey, any argument counts. It's certainly not the *best* or strongest argument by any means. But, as I said back in July: H/H shippers have one kiss; R/H shippers have zero! :--) I think Scott is right that when we discussed it this past summer, most people figured that JKR would not view it as all that significant. It might be a red herring, it might be "baiting" the H/H shippers or it might just be an insignificant detail that she threw in with no thought whatsoever. Of course, she did *emphasize* it -- "Hermione did something she'd never done before." I think JKR's pretty darn good at getting in the minds of our adolescent heroes (and heroines), and I do agree with your students Ebony that 14 yr old girls don't often kiss a male friend lightly. High school & college is a bit different; there's a bit more maturation there. 14 is roughly 8th grade over here, right? I don't know -- call me crazy but I think it does show some level of feelings on Hermione's part. I know she might have just been thinking, "oh, poor Harry, he's been through so much in the last few weeks," and just kissed him spontaneously, without any real romantic interest. But .... it could also indicate there are underlying feelings for him too. Especially when you think about the way JKR emphasized it as an ending detail. Then again ... it's been a long time since I was 14, so maybe I'm just not remembering it all that well. I wouldn't have thought twice about kissing my guy buddies on the cheek at age 17 or 21 ... but 14? I don't think so. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 03:07:09 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:07:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" References: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net> <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <3A40225D.CAF126D4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7347 Hi -- marty at martynet.org wrote: > (While I'm talking about this, I want to know why the benevolent folks > > at Hogwarts keep sending Harry back to his abusive home? They know > too > much to NOT know that the Dursleys actually torture Harry -- depriving > > him of food and locking him up physically -- aside from the emotional > abuse. I really have a problem with that, and the message it sends to > > kids who read it.) We've talked alot about this. You might search the archives for posts around end of Sept & beginning of Oct (I know because I was out of town then & came home to a full inbox about the abusive Dursleys & what it might all mean, etc.). At base, my belief is that the Dursleys serve a fairy tale archetype and that JKR isn't really trying to address the abused child issue too much. But, read the past posts if you want to really know what all was discussed before. > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an > adolescent > fling between Harry and Ron? I think it would be a rather sweet added > > dimension to their friendship (future or past). Given the strong > feelings that were flying around GoF between them, the jealousy, the > frustration when they were fighting, the fact that Ron was Harry's > "thing he'd miss most," I don't think it's even too far-fetched. Carole already filled you in on the slash genre. I will only add that the "thing he'd miss most" business is most likely just a function of the plot. Harry doesn't have a girlfriend at that point like Cedric & Krum, and it sort of helped the plot along that both Harry's best friends were down at the bottom of the lake along with his love interest (Cho). Otherwise, there wouldn't be that nobility bit going on. And, don't forget that he didn't take Ron to the surface & then try to come back & be the hero -- he immediately turned to help Hermione & refused to leave until he could be sure of her safety (& Cho's). Not that you were maybe all that serious about the "thing he'd miss most," right? Anyway, as Carole said, slash is out there. I'm sure there's plenty over on fanfiction.net > Now you're going to throw me out, aren't you? :-> Not at all! Welcome! We're a very tolerant & diverse crowd .... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nlpnt at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 03:26:16 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:26:16 -0000 Subject: Hermione's Ancestry In-Reply-To: <3A3FA64D.F17A55E5@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91p8so+7uff@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7348 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > dhill52084 at a... wrote: > > > Hi Voicelady, > > If that is right then Hermoine is a redhead and I am not the dolt I > > thought. This is when they go to rescue the Godfather. right? > > Don, I think you are confusing the cover art with the actual > characters. The coverart & illustrations are done by an artist hired > the publisher. The cover art for some of the foreign editions, for > example, bears no resemblance to the books at all in some cases (I'm > thinking of the weird Italian covers in particular My favorite is the Catalan translation of CoS, for which the Weasleys' Anglia was Transfigured into a '57 Chevy (right-hand drive)! Question-was *that* change reflected in the translation's text? From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 03:52:56 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:52:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91p0ko+45hf@eGroups.com> <3A40201E.C1C9CC9F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <007401c06a38$576f5200$7a45d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7349 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > Umm.... I wouldn't say it's *worthless* to the H/H arguments. Hey, any > argument counts. It's certainly not the *best* or strongest argument by > any means. But, as I said back in July: H/H shippers have one kiss; R/H > shippers have zero! :--) No kiss is insignificant in a true shipper's heart...seriously...she didn't kiss Ron goodbye.....or make a point to see Ron over the summer... > > I think JKR's pretty darn good at getting in the minds of our adolescent > heroes (and heroines), and I do agree with your students Ebony that 14 > yr old girls don't often kiss a male friend lightly. High school & > college is a bit different; there's a bit more maturation there. 14 is > roughly 8th grade over here, right? I don't know -- call me crazy but I > think it does show some level of feelings on Hermione's part. I know > she might have just been thinking, "oh, poor Harry, he's been through so > much in the last few weeks," and just kissed him spontaneously, without > any real romantic interest. But .... it could also indicate there are > underlying feelings for him too. Especially when you think about the > way JKR emphasized it as an ending detail. She's been pretty dead on before about adolescent emotions....and if she intended it to mean nothing wouldn't it have been better to write "Hermione kissed him on the cheek to wish him well for the summer" or something like that... > > Then again ... it's been a long time since I was 14, so maybe I'm just > not remembering it all that well. I wouldn't have thought twice about > kissing my guy buddies on the cheek at age 17 or 21 ... but 14? I don't > think so. Well...even longer for me...but ...now she does tend towards emotional outbursts...I'll have to go examine this passage more closely...I'm vague on the context...but I agree with Ebony's 14 year olds...they should know. carole From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 04:08:07 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:08:07 -0000 Subject: Welcome ( was Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue") In-Reply-To: <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <91pbb7+laoh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7350 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, marty at m... wrote: > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an adolescent > fling between Harry and Ron? I think it would be a rather sweet added > dimension to their friendship (future or past). Given the strong > feelings that were flying around GoF between them, the jealousy, the > frustration when they were fighting, the fact that Ron was Harry's > "thing he'd miss most," I don't think it's even too far-fetched. > > Now you're going to throw me out, aren't you? :-> Welcome, Marty! No one here's going to throw you out--all of the regular posters have our pet issues and opinions, and our (weird, annoying, and/or endearing) personality quirks. What you've described is known as a slash pairing... Slashers are fans who advocate a relationship between two characters of the same sex in a creative work. Although I'm not a slash writer myself, I've found some well-written slash (mostly Sirius/Lupin and Harry/Draco) at ff.net. And while I'm a tiny bit vocal about my support for H/H, I don't think H/R slash would bother me as much as the H/R ship. As a matter of fact, it might work if a really good fanfic writer tried it. Any takers? All right, now they're going to throw *me* out. --Ebony From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 20 04:11:50 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:11:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: <8c.162312.27718b86@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7351 In a message dated 12/19/00 9:57:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: > I know she might have just been thinking, "oh, poor Harry, he's been through > so > much in the last few weeks," and just kissed him spontaneously, without > any real romantic interest. But .... it could also indicate there are > underlying feelings for him too. Especially when you think about the > way JKR emphasized it as an ending detail. > I don't think Hermione has underlying feelings for Harry. I think that this was an extremely emotional time for all of them and she's relieved that one of her best friends is ok. I do think that JKR was trying to emphasize not only to Ron, but the reader that yes, Hermione is a girl (and she's becoming a woman). Hermione gets emotional and IMO hormonal in a once-a-month-mood-swingy kind of way. I'm a few years from being 14 but I can remember the mood swings like like they were just last month. : ) -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 04:34:59 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:34:59 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <8c.162312.27718b86@aol.com> Message-ID: <91pctj+ak6g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7352 Penny wrote: > > I know she might have just been thinking, "oh, poor Harry, he's been through > > so> > much in the last few weeks," and just kissed him spontaneously, without> > any real romantic interest. But .... it could also indicate there are> > underlying feelings for him too. Especially when you think about the> > way JKR emphasized it as an ending detail. To which Mo replied: > I don't think Hermione has underlying feelings for Harry. I think that this > was an extremely emotional time for all of them and she's relieved that one > of her best friends is ok. I do think that JKR was trying to emphasize not > only to Ron, but the reader that yes, Hermione is a girl (and she's becoming > a woman). Hermione gets emotional and IMO hormonal in a > once-a-month-mood-swingy kind of way. I'm a few years from being 14 but I > can remember the mood swings like like they were just last month. : ) See what I mean? JKR did it on purpose--she *knew* we'd be discussing the last page for years! (And since there'll be no *Order of the Phoenix* in 2001 (sniff) I do mean years. Thank God for fanfic.) I'd say that Hermione does have underlying feelings for Harry at this point... refer to the overdone post sent 24 hours ago on Freud and Lacan. LOL! I like the way Penny's keeping score (especially when H/H is winning) but I still don't think we can get too excited yet. I'm re-reading the canon now to get a feel for the writing, and the canon is not helping my argument for the Harry side of things at all. In fact, in the paper he *had* to be the ever-retreating Lacanian Other, because he seems to be keeping her at arm's length as far as anything other than friendship is concerned. JKR gives us the kiss, but she also takes great pains to detail the period of time when Harry and Hermione were spending a lot of time together, the tabloid write-ups, etc. I wonder if there's any reason for this beyond GoF. We can't just ignore the fact that Harry at least seems to not even consider the possibility of anything other than friendship with Hermione all throughout GoF. A friend is one thing, but if she starts to head to the "sister" category we can hang it up. No, I'm not shooting myself or my fellow H/H shippers (who have *extraordinarily* good taste, might I add) in the foot. I just like to argue both sides of the debate... pick up the R/H ball and run with it... it's fun to see how right we are anyway. (laughing again) --Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 20 04:44:23 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:44:23 -0000 Subject: Long OT Re: Freudian/Lacanian In-Reply-To: <91mu5s+au9i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91pdf7+9iuk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7353 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > The following is prewriting/brainstorming for the paper I talked > about so much earlier this fall. I'm glad you finally explained the paper that you were tantalizing us with hints about. Your description was interesting. I previously had not known anything about Lacan. > At the center of Freudian psychoanalytic criticism is the concept > that the human mind is divided into three separate yet interacting > parts. Say them with me... the id ("inner child"), the ego > ("rational mind"), and the superego ("conscience"). Child, Adult, and Parent in Transactional Analysis (in which the Child is valued more than Freud's Id). Can we match them up with some more ancient three-way division of a person? Body/flesh, mind, soul? Animal, human, angel? > ***Thus began the trend amongst English types to understand > literature by determining the content of the author's id.*** One of the reasons that I hate English and Literature as subjects is that, once we were out of sixth grade and writing essays about the "theme" (actually, the "moral", as in "the theme of this story is that prejudice is unfair") of the assigned story, the next seven years (required Freshman Comp was the LAST English class I ever took, hallelu-ilat!) was writing essays about the Freudian symbolism in the assigned story. Cranking out identifications of things as Freudian symbols is an easy enough mechanical exercise that I got Bs (if it's longer than it's wide, it's a phallic symbol; if it's wider than it's long, it much be a vaginal symbol). But I have never been able to see ANY value in it. Even if it accurately discovers the author's neuroses, it is the book that I care about, not the author. It doesn't teach us why some stories are objects of beauty that take one's breath away and last 'forever' and why other stories are loved in one era and considered unreadable garbage by other eras. And it doesn't teach us anything about the human condition: not about honor, not about envy, not about battle fatigue.... Which is working up to, somewhere in this post, I will ask you what is that lit-crit stuff good for? Lee once responded to this complaint of mine by lending me Northrup Frye, ANATOMY OF CRITICISM, which I read through and turned over and started again at the beginning -- for four consecutive reads, on the fourth of which I made extensive notes. Now THAT was lit-crit that help me better understand the stories! > Children have no concept of self until they are able to understand > the word "I" (known as the Lacanian Mirror Stage), ['Ego' is the Latin word for "I am", right? And Latin is a language in which the pronoun can't be there without a verb, right? And Joseph Campbell wrote that the Pali word translated 'ego', as the error that must be removed from the mind to find Nirvana, is literally "Saying I". I used to remember that Pali word, but now I am too sleepy to even look it up.] So if they never learned the word "I", they would never develop a sense of self as separate being. I suspect that it works the other way: if they never developed a sense of self as separate being, they would never learn the word "I". But taking it as written, we seem to be in Sapir-Whorf, where the words and grammatical structures that we know control what reality we perceive. Which would be somewhat contradictory to your much emphasized point that we can always perceive more reality than we can put into words. > Before this point, an infant's identity is wholly wrapped up in a > feeling of oneness with his or her mother. Arrgh, I've lost my memory. Who was the Frenchman who called it "participation mystique" (which means Mystical Participation, and authors in English who use that French phrase without translating it just get their readers all confused with long-gone memories of The Feminine Mystique), explaining it as the source of the Animist beliefs of 'savages'? The point is, Union with God, becoming One with Everything, whatever they call it, is a highly praised mystical experience of the most advanced religions. (As well as an excuse for sex acts.) > ***In Lacan's logic an individual's unfulfilled desires are > an attempt to rejoin the inexpressible that is lost through > linguistic signification.*** How about unfulfilled desires like Enough Food? Make this sabre tooth tiger stop biting me? > he is the expressed projection of her aggregate unconscious > desires-?for publication, for a change in socioeconomic status, for > a place in the annals of time, I don't see any reason to assume that those are UNconscious desires: they seem the type of desires that people have quite consciously. > but this type of reading requires that you know some "dirt"... at > least the tinest speck. Remember, you must fish around in the > author's id according to Freud and Lacan to make sense of anything > they write. This is what I was saying before, What Good Is It? A lit-crit system that makes no distinction between the literary merit of (name your classic: The Illiad, Romeo and Juliet, HP and the Philosopher's Stone) and the rambling messages about CIA conspiracies, Mafia, JFK assassination, baccarat betting systems, fixed horse races, etc, that one of my friends leaves on my voicemail when he has had too much to drink? From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 20 04:50:39 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:50:39 -0000 Subject: Mrs. Bon's Transitory Meal (was: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <3A3F419E.A71B8D80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <91pdqv+kebj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7354 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? > Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) Robert Heinlein invented it in one of his novellas. MAGIC INC if I recall correctly. The narrator is a businessman who can't afford to be less mentally sharp after lunch than in the morning, so he orders the beer that costs more because a wizard put a vanishing spell on the alcohol in it (so it vanishes about the time the beer reaches his stomach). He lunches with a female [City Council member?] and observes that she orders all her items off the vanishing side of the menu. While this would work for craving the TASTE of chocolate, and I suppose could be accompanied by eating ice cubes or such to keep the stomach from feeling empty, it won't work for getting the sugar high or fat tranquilizer or other drug-type effects that people count on getting from food. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 04:52:55 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:52:55 -0000 Subject: Merchandise Madness In-Reply-To: <001a01c067a3$671da4a0$64987ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91pdv7+nnte@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7355 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Circe wrote: > >No, not by a long shot are you the only one. You're just the only one smart > >enough to do this, and post it to inspire the rest of us! I'm going to > gather > >mine up now.What a great way to "waste" ( according to SOME people) part of > a > >rainy cold Saturday. > > It's great fun when you start emptying the boxes and displaying all the > 'things' in one place. Since the photos (taken only a few days ago) I've > added a copy of the Radio Times - think I will have to find a plastic bag to > wrap it in - so it does not get too damanged. > Okay, so I succumbed...today I bought four HP bumper stickers, one desk calendar, one wall calendar, and various other stuff. At the store, I got into a conversation with the two women (I think mother and daughter) about Albus Dumbledore...what fun > Still awaiting a shipment from WBSTORE. When (if) it arrives, will be able > to expand my collection. Shame most of the stuff is still not available > here in the UK. Anyone found anything interesting in the UK yet - so far, > all I've found that's different from the US stuff is the Calendar, and of > course the Ford Anglia mug I located (plus books and tapes/cd's of course). > > Talking of which - Radio Times has an offer on the Tapes and CD's of Stephen > Fry's recordings of Books 1 to 3. I wonder if it is really cheaper though > than buying from someone such as WHSmith Online or Amazon. > > Nick From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 04:57:21 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:57:21 -0000 Subject: help! urgent plea HP for Prez? difference in PS/SS Message-ID: <91pe7h+hnsr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7356 Damn, I loaned my HP and the PS to someone and all I have is HP and the SS. Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for President?" if so, President of what? Quick, please, someone, put me out of my misery. I must know Susan From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 20 04:58:02 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:58:02 -0000 Subject: Cover Art Re: Hermione's Ancestry In-Reply-To: <20001219222145.23886.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <91pe8q+ajld@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7357 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > I see that Penny has already responded, but I'll just jump in there anyway with my agreement. No, you're not a dolt. The cover art can be a little confusing at times. Harry *does* rescue Ginny, but it's definitely Hermione with Harry on the Hippogriff. I'm not quite sure why the cover art depicts her as a redhead, though. Once of those mysteries we'll probably never know the answer to... Probably an error that occured while turning the cover painting into a photo and the photo into a color separation and the color separation into 4 million copies ... A kazillion charities send me unsolicited return address stickers, and sometimes I am amused by how different the colors are between two (apparent) print runs of the same art. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:02:48 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:02:48 -0000 Subject: not always men In-Reply-To: <00a801c06854$767514e0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <91peho+2a2m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7358 Hey, can we remember that the dustmen, garbagemen, mailmen, etc. are not always men? Mail carriers, garbage collectors, etc. And boxing day is absolutely the day that the servants had off and the hoi polloi had to cook for themselves. S From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:10:41 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:10:41 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <01e301c069bc$e2e991a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <91pf0h+r4ck@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7359 > 1. In passing: in the world of wizarding, guys aren't the only wavers of > potent wands. Could it be that the wizarding community has solved the Great > Envy? Uh, do people here still subscribe to Freud's theory of penis envy? Is this for real? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:14:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:14:07 -0000 Subject: Thermodynamics & Wizarding/vanishing calories/Heinlein In-Reply-To: <3A3F419E.A71B8D80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <91pf6v+8g6c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7360 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > And lastly, permanence. Leprechaun gold is, to all appearances, real, but > > transitory. I would postulate that the squashy purple sleeping bags were > > similar, non-permanent exigency measures. However, food *cannot* be impermanent, > > and probably cannot be simply conjured out of nothing (or lots out of > > little)--at least not if you want to live on it. > > Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? > Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) > Our customers love it! "As a student at Hogwarts, with such delicious meals prepared > three times daily by house elves, I found myself unable to fit into my dress robes. > Then, I found Mrs Bon's System, which I enjoy at breakfast and lunch. Then, I have a > sensible dinner, and enjoy an T-MRS snack in the common room. I've lost 10 pounds in > two weeks, and I'll be going to the Yule Ball with a Quidditch Captain! Thank you > Mrs Bon!" I THINK it was Robert Heinlein in one of his juveniles who had his characters ordering food from two sides of the menu. One side would taste like food, and you would enjoy it, but it would vanish, and there would be no calories. The other would have calories, and presumably energy derived from those calories...anyone else remember it? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:15:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:15:23 -0000 Subject: Mrs. Bon's Transitory Meal (was: Thermodynamics & Wizarding In-Reply-To: <91pdqv+kebj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91pf9b+f3su@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7361 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi > wrote: > > > Oh, wouldn't this be the *best* diet plan ever? > > Mrs Bon's Transitory Meal Replacement System (R) > > Robert Heinlein invented it in one of his novellas. MAGIC INC if I > recall correctly. The narrator is a businessman who can't afford to > be less mentally sharp after lunch than in the morning, so he orders > the beer that costs more because a wizard put a vanishing spell on > the alcohol in it (so it vanishes about the time the beer reaches > his stomach). He lunches with a female [City Council member?] and > observes that she orders all her items off the vanishing side of the > menu. > > While this would work for craving the TASTE of chocolate, and I > suppose could be accompanied by eating ice cubes or such to keep the > stomach from feeling empty, it won't work for getting the sugar > high or fat tranquilizer or other drug-type effects that people count > on getting from food. whoops, sorry, Rita, I posted before I read..... From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 20 05:17:01 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:17:01 -0000 Subject: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <91pfcd+g4pj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7362 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, marty at m... wrote: > About feeling sympathy for [Ron's] his angst: really, what does > Hermione have to deal with, either? Her muggle background and her > teeth? I'm more sympathetic to Ron's feeling of overwhelmedness > and frustration/shame about his family's lack of means than that. Hear, hear! > (While I'm talking about this, I want to know why the benevolent > folks at Hogwarts keep sending Harry back to his abusive home? There is some 'old magic' that keeps Harry safe only when in the 'care' of his relatives. It has been hinted at but not explained in the text so far. And HP has to go to the Dursley at the beginning of vacation, but then can go on to the Weasleys: is there something in the 'old magic' that continues to keep him safe for some time after he leaves the Dursleys, but he has to go back to them periodically to refresh it? > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an > adolescent fling between Harry and Ron? Ha/R. It gets complicated when characters have the same initials and you have to distinguish Ha/R from He/R (which in turn is a little ironic: He is the girl), and specify Sn or Si for Snape or Sirius, Du or Dr Dumbledore or Draco. As Carole and Penny and Ebony have already said, when it is a same sex pair it is called slash rather than shipping. > I think it would be a rather sweet added dimension to their > friendship (future or past). Given the strong feelings that were > flying around GoF between them, the jealousy, the frustration when > they were fighting, the fact that Ron was Harry's "thing he'd miss > most," I don't think it's even too far-fetched. Before GoF came out, I would read the Ha/He shippers and the R/He shippers and the Ha/G[inny] shippers and the Ha/Cho shippers, and then reply that I thought Harry and Ron would suit each other best, with their shared interests and Harry being able to keep his mouth shut at times when anything anyone says sets Ron off (and sometimes I would add that if only Ginny transferred her hero worship from Harry The Boy Who Lived to Hermione The Genius Scholar, they could suit each other's personalities quite well). But I have to admit that GoF kind of knocked a hole in that for me. First, while Harry could still grow up to be gay or bi, as he still seems to be trying not to have a sexual orientation at all (as part of a desire to avoid intimacy -- and it should be easy to figure out where he learned to distruct intimacy!), but Ron has been acting quite thoroughly heterosexual lately, leering down girls' necklines and stuff. Also, Harry hasn't been doing such a good job of coddling Ron's temper lately. I regularly use the "thing he'd miss most" to argue that Viktor's feelings for Hermione are at least sincere. He may be an 18 year old trying to date a 14 or 15 year old, but she wouldn't have been his hostage if he were just a 'playa' (as someone said back in Yahoo! days). He either is real messed up, or he was able to appreciate Hermione's excellences despite youth, big teeth (not shrunk yet when he began chasing her), and a bossy sort of voice. I prefer to believe the latter, which speaks exceptionally well of him, and at this time, I would like to match Hermione with Viktor. I suppose he'll either die or be revealed as a Darksider in the next volume, sigh. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:26:39 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:26:39 -0000 Subject: the Anne girl books (slightly OT) In-Reply-To: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91pfuf+jb82@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7363 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > I also have a hereditary disdain for those whose loyalty is > > questionable. I found Edmund difficult to sympathize with in "The > > Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"... and had a difficult time > > forgiving what he did (though I know as the allegorical Judas, he > > couldn't help himself). I'm also finding that I have a decreasing > > amount of empathy with Ron as the series progresses... I loved > > him in the first two novels but something about him nags at me > > while reading PoA and GoF. I think the similarity is that both of > > these characters were discontented with their lot in life, but > their > > discontent IMO isn't quite justified considering the > > circumstances. The Anne-related point? Ron isn't a lot like > > Gilbert at all... Gilbert's #1 character trait is faithfulness and > > constancy to the point of being stubborn/obstinate. > > > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this > I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not > sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because > of his relative nondescriptness. Hermione is very well defined and > rounded, IMO, and Harry is also, of course. Isn't Ron a little ... I > don't know how do describe it - pale, maybe. He's Harry's friend more > than he is his own person. Even when he has negative feelings they > are related to Harry (his jealousy of him in GoF). Am I the only one > to feel this way? > > BTW, and just not to clutter the list with further posts from me, > could somebody please, please, please explain what H/H, H/R and > shippers (?!) are? Also - who the he.. on earth is Mary Sue? > > Naama Ron's a complex kid....but very normal. Harry, after all, is almost too good to be true, as is Hermione..much as I love 'em. Well, delighted to hear there are other Anne fanatics around. I took a special visit to PEI for her. LMM is much more woman identified than JKR. And what about the videos? Weren't they lovely? Edmund..he never really redeems himself... Susan From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 20 05:35:55 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:35:55 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <3A40201E.C1C9CC9F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91pgfr+mqbv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7364 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I think JKR's pretty darn good at getting in the minds of our > adolescent heroes (and heroines), and I do agree with your students > Ebony that 14 yr old girls don't often kiss a male friend lightly. > High school & college is a bit different; there's a bit more > maturation there. 14 is roughly 8th grade over here, right? At least in my day, 14 was generally 9th grade. I've been figuring that their 'first-year' is our 6th grade, second = 7th, third = 8th, fourth = 9th, etc. However, from what some Brits on the list have told us about the cut-off date for birthdays being Much Stricter in UK than in US, and Hermione's birthday being Sept 19, she may have been 15 during MOST of fourth-year. > > Then again ... it's been a long time since I was 14, so maybe I'm > just not remembering it all that well. I wouldn't have thought > twice about kissing my guy buddies on the cheek at age 17 or 21 ... > but 14? I don't think so. I'm 43 now, so it's been longer since I was 14 than you, but I remember doing a hell of a lot more than pecks on the cheek... I've already mentioned that I occasionally get nervous that I might be banned from the list as a bad influence on the under-18 members.... If she was me at 14, she'd have hugged him tight and kissed him on the mouth and the only clue as to whether she was feeling friendly or sexual would be whether her lips were open or closed. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:40:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:40:38 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91pctj+ak6g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91pgom+6855@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7365 For the record, I don't believe that Harry and Hermione will ever have a romantic relationship, and that Hermione and Ron will. However, I'm only a shipper of caviar, not any other kind of shipper. Hermione is the quintessential adolescent girl who is far more emotionally mature than the boys her age. Harry is her friend. (Harry to Victor Krum...That's because we're FRIENDS. She's NOT my girlfriend. CLEARly indicating to her AND to Molly Weasley that he has no interest in Hermione except as his FRIEND) Harry's just been through an unbelievably traumatic experience. Lord Voldemort -- he who must not be named -- has taken his blood in an obscene black magic ritual to restore his body. He has seen Cedric murdered. He has seen his parents' ghosts, and has communicated with him. A trusted teacher turns out to be the enemy. He has seen Albus Dumbledore's true nature. Snape has been revealed to be on his side. In the U.S. Hermione might have said "Harry, I love you. Take care of yourself." without one ounce of anything but love and friendship. An aeon ago, when I was 14, it was highly significant when a boy put his arm around you. BUT, a kiss on the cheek was the sign of affection, not passion. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:49:56 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:49:56 -0000 Subject: Ron Message-ID: <91pha4+jof7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7366 I can understand why folks have uneasy feelings about Ron. He is obviously humiliated by his lack of money, and too often, those who are humiliated take revenge. As I said before, he is more often the target of Draco Malfoy than Harry is. Draco says far more vicious things about Ron than about Harry. And Harry gets to fight back, whereas Ron never gets to punch Draco in the nose. (Although he does get to Watch the fake Moody turn Draco into the amazing bouncing ferret). It's HERMIONE who smacks Malfoy. Yes, Ron has as stable home and nurturing environment, but like many of us (no?) still has his adolescent angst..overshadowed by his older siblings, and then by Harry, who is not just famous but outstanding. However, Ron does not get all the credit he deserves. In the PS, he is the one who causes the troll's club to knock the troll out. In the CoS, he is the only one who can solve the chess problem, and does, winning an award for Special Services to the School. He has a lot of abilities; he must learn to recognize them, and appreciate himself. Let's be more compassionate. It would be agony for an adolescent boy to go to a ball in dress robes that looked like a dress. All that rigid gender sterotyping and homophobia would combine to humiliate him. Harry knows that the dress robes are traumatic..he has Gred and Forge promise to buy Ron new ones. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Dec 20 05:58:51 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:58:51 -0000 Subject: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <91phqr+90un@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7367 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, marty at m... wrote: > > > naama wrote: > > > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this > > > I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not > > > sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because > > > of his relative nondescriptness. > > and then Penny said: > > Well, I'd agree more with Ebony that my own discomfort with Ron has to > > do with my growing unease that he may be susceptible to betrayal of > > Harry because of all his insecurities & envy. And, like Ebony, I guess > > I don't have much sympathy for his troubles. He has a loving family & > > plenty of talents of his own if he'd quit worrying about what everyone > > else has. I think he's the weak link. > > I agree that Ron could use some development, and I would like to know more > about him. On the other hand, that's one of his salient character > features -- he's struggling to define himself. Psychologically, I like > the idea that Ron feels comfortable in Harry's shadow because he's grown > up in the shadow of his brothers, yet simultaneously feels the need to > act out his conflict about that with Harry, too. > > About feeling sympathy for his angst: really, what does Hermione have to > deal with, either? Her muggle background and her teeth? I'm more > sympathetic to Ron's feeling of overwhelmedness and frustration/shame > about his family's lack of means than that. Of course, we found that > Neville has some really ugly stuff to deal with, and Harry, it goes > without saying, so I guess I would place Ron in the middle...but he does > seem prone to self-pity. > > (While I'm talking about this, I want to know why the benevolent folks > at Hogwarts keep sending Harry back to his abusive home? They know too > much to NOT know that the Dursleys actually torture Harry -- depriving > him of food and locking him up physically -- aside from the emotional > abuse. I really have a problem with that, and the message it sends to > kids who read it.) > > > H/H shipper is someone who favors a romantic pairing between Harry & > > Hermione. H/R (or R/H) shipper is someone who favors a Ron & Hermione > > romantic pairing. D/G - Draco/Ginny; H/G is Harry/Ginny, H/C is > > Harry/Cho, etc. > > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an adolescent > fling between Harry and Ron? I think it would be a rather sweet added > dimension to their friendship (future or past). Given the strong > feelings that were flying around GoF between them, the jealousy, the > frustration when they were fighting, the fact that Ron was Harry's > "thing he'd miss most," I don't think it's even too far-fetched. > > Now you're going to throw me out, aren't you? :-> > > > Marty They would call you a H/R shipper, or they would say that you would bring down more righteous anger from the religious right, or distract from the story by introducing a sexual theme. Harry and Ron DO remind me of Regis Hastur and Danilo Syrtis in the Heritage of Hastur (not to mention Regis and Lew Alton). In the Darkover series, bredu often shared a sexual bond as well as an emotional one.... From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 07:06:30 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:06:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7368 As my post doesnt really pretain to the kiss, but was just inspired by it, i have emitted the posting. I am not a H/H or R/H shipper. Just to clear that out of the way, mainly bc i think it would be good if in the end when the series is resolved Draco mends his ways and ends up with Hermione But i have to post my theory that while she may have kissed Harry on the cheek, Hermione will end up with Ron. Here are my reasons... Mainly, look at the classic Trio, I will pick one that plays extrordinarily well with this argument and forgive me for tying these 2 worlds together. In Star Wars, there are Luke (Harry) Leia(Hermione) and Ron(Han). In the beginning, it seems our hero will end up with the girl. I mean, Han and Leai are constantly bickering, they snap at each other etc. BUT, Han and Leia DO end up with each other....I mean The sidekick gets the girl, that is THE perk to being a sidekick. You loose out on fame and glory (excetpt in assosciation) but you get the girl. I mean, I am SURE my theory has holes, but If you read the signs all through GoF, they are there. Hermione getting all huffy with Fleur for kissing Ron, Ron getting all Huffy abut Krum, things that never happened with Harry....Just my theory...this is prob a played out discussion but i had to have my 2 cents thrown in. Stephanie Incidentally, Because i will not clutter boxes with another mail....WHERE on the cover of CoS are Ron and Ginny? I have a HB and PB and both show Harry being flown through the air on the tail of fawkes.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 07:34:04 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:34:04 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7369 I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for far too long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the slasher group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all know it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are children's books. Also being 16, i can pretty closely relate with what is going on. I have a lot of close friends. But particularly i have a best friend, a girl signe, and a very close friend but not quite as good as best ;) guy friend chris. Now, Chris and I are very close, But we could never be as close as Signe or i mainly bc we relate to each others emotions better as females. that however does not mean we need to start having sexual feelings. I did think about those 2 as a pair before i sat down so as not to make a total idiot of myself, But i must say it is rather silly. HP to me is not the melodramatic world of american television where virtually every show has a gay/lesbian character on it...(in case anyone wonders, I dont have a problem with gay ppl, all of my step mothers siblings are and i love them all to pieces) I mean, where have Harry and Ron ever shown any sign or tendency as to this? Normally i am open minded with these things bc i can see a point i know of evidence that i myself remember that could point this way, but for this i see none. While yes, Ron matters to Harry more than anyone else mainly bc they are best freinds...they have a bond something like brothers, i know bc my best friend signe matters to me more than anyone else in the world, bf or chris my other really close friend. I know this is a rather long rant with prob a bit too much info about me in it ;) but i couldnt help as to wondering where you get the factual basis for this from, I mean...for now I would def declare Ron a heterosexual...and Harry too based upon his "feelings for cho" (which i in no way support) I mean, if you can show me evidence from the books, i will gladly eat my words....but until then i remain vehmnently opposed to this :) Stephanie the Seething _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Dec 20 10:50:05 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:50:05 +1100 Subject: Wizard Photographs Message-ID: <01C06ACE.DB002180.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7370 I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard pictures - what happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? What is it that moves? - Gilroy Lockart's photographic image appeared to share his vanity, What else might they share? How is they linked? Are you spread to thin if you have multiple copies of the same picture made - what effect would it have on you? Would your image become sluggish (the more their were) Some Aboriginal communities believed that photographs 'stole' the soul and either photos are forbidden or strongly regulated in those communities. What kind of laws (if any) would the wizarding community have around photo's. Can you imagine trying to grieve for someone who had recently died only to see their image moving around and acting like them? - very weird! And is it only photo's that move - surely some of the people mentioned on the collecting cards must have died before the invention of the camera (and its subsequent adoption by the Wizard/Witch world). Same sort of process? As always, more questions and no theories - storm From zsenya at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 11:16:04 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:16:04 -0000 Subject: Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: <91q4dk+8dtm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7371 AIGHGHHGH! I have been receiving HP for Grownups in digest form for weeks now (I posted a bit in the beginning) but have to come out of lurkdom to defend Ron, I just have to. I think Ron is a wonderful character in that he is very *normal.* People talk about getting funny feelings about Ron, that there is something unsettling about him - perhaps there is something unsettling about every 14 year old boy? To me, there is something much more freaky about Harry. I mean, he's so polite and nice but he's been brought up in such an awful home and his worst trait seems to be a slight disregard for rules and a tendency to sulk a bit. People who don't like Ron seem to think that he complains about things that he shouldn't complain about (like his wonderful family, for example), but I find those complaints make him more human. I have a wonderful family life and at 14 I really wished I didn't so that I could fit in better with my punk rock friends. Another writer described Ron as "pale" and "relatively nondescript" I am gripping my computer tightly and gasping. Are we reading the same books? I wonder if myself and a friend of mine who have been writing Ron/Hermione fanfics have just projected a bunch of characteristics onto him that don't really have any basis in the books. Who is Ron really, as JK Rowling writes him? True, we can't know his inner thoughts, because the stories are not from his POV, but he is a very vocal character. I think there is little doubt as to how Ron is feeling most of the time. I'm sure you guys have been through these points before, but, I mean, look at the way he sacrificed himself on the chess board, look at how he went down into the Chamber of Secrets to find his sister, look at how he stood up to Harry in front of Sirius Black. True, GoF dealt with situations in which Ron could not really play a heroic part, but if he had been able to help, he would have. And he will. I am sure of it. And if he betrays Harry in any way, well, then, my heart will be broken, and I will just have to write my own Harry Potter books and forget about JK Rowling. So There. Also, re: a few of the other threads, (as I said before, I am a big Ron/Hermione shipper) wasn't it Anne Shirley herself who said something to the effect that she wanted the man she fell in love with to be a little bit wicked. Truth be told, if you look at all the Anne books, Gilbert is a bit boring by the end there (don't get me wrong, he's still great, and has his moments, but he is very sort of, well, just there, being honorable and good, isn't he?) To me, Ron is lovely and wicked. Harry isn't perfect, but he's likely to suffer from all sorts of depression and intimacy issues as he grows up due to his upbringing. Oh! And I was a big fan of Edmund in Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Maybe there's something wrong with me but I couldn't help it. He was so misunderstood - but he came around didn't he - he got to be a king with his siblings. And actually, it is Susan who turns out to be the black sheep if you get to the end of the series. I never did like her. Re: the kiss - I don't think it meant anything. If ANYTHING, it proves that Hermione likes Ron (hehe) - if you like someone you are probably completely afraid to have any physical contact with them at all, whereas if you just consider someone a friend, a little peck on the cheek is a nice gesture of friendship. Poor girl probably trembles with emotion every time Ron is near - he's so tall and red-headed. Okay, well, I hope nobody's upset (and I hope you recognize that I'm being good-natured - it's hard to come across in email)- I just felt I had to speak up in defense of Ron. Poor guy! My friend and I are actually working on a project now, which we plan to "debut" after New Year's which is a website devoted to fanfiction writing and our dear friend Ron. I will post an official announcement when it is all done. Happy Holidays everyone! From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 20 11:43:15 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:43:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: Message-ID: <3A409B53.C9072F21@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7372 It's just an alternative universe, the same as almost any well-written fanfic - a fanfic is by definition something which is *not yet canon* or *may never be canon* and because of that, one can create attributes for the characters which never exist in the books' universe, or create brand new characters (like Simon Branford, Vampire). Making a character or two gay, or bi, is no more or less a departure from canon as, say, making Draco Malfoy into a sweetheart who falls in love with American transfer students. Stephanie Becvar wrote: > I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for far too > long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the slasher > group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all know > it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are children's > books. Also being 16, i can pretty closely relate with what is going on. I > have a lot of close friends. But particularly i have a best friend, a girl > signe, and a very close friend but not quite as good as best ;) guy friend > chris. Now, Chris and I are very close, But we could never be as close as > Signe or i mainly bc we relate to each others emotions better as females. > that however does not mean we need to start having sexual feelings. I did > think about those 2 as a pair before i sat down so as not to make a total > idiot of myself, But i must say it is rather silly. HP to me is not the > melodramatic world of american television where virtually every show has a > gay/lesbian character on it...(in case anyone wonders, I dont have a problem > with gay ppl, all of my step mothers siblings are and i love them all to > pieces) I mean, where have Harry and Ron ever shown any sign or tendency as > to this? Normally i am open minded with these things bc i can see a point i > know of evidence that i myself remember that could point this way, but for > this i see none. While yes, Ron matters to Harry more than anyone else > mainly bc they are best freinds...they have a bond something like brothers, > i know bc my best friend signe matters to me more than anyone else in the > world, bf or chris my other really close friend. I know this is a rather > long rant with prob a bit too much info about me in it ;) but i couldnt > help as to wondering where you get the factual basis for this from, I > mean...for now I would def declare Ron a heterosexual...and Harry too based > upon his "feelings for cho" (which i in no way support) I mean, if you can > show me evidence from the books, i will gladly eat my words....but until > then i remain vehmnently opposed to this :) > > Stephanie the Seething > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 20 11:49:50 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:49:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs References: <01C06ACE.DB002180.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A409CDE.63103C4F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7373 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard pictures - what > happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? What is it that moves? No, it doesn't stop - harry specificially notes that his parents are waving to him from the photos in the album hagrid makes for him. > > - Gilroy Lockart's photographic image appeared to share his vanity, What else > might they share? How is they linked? Are you spread to thin if you have > multiple copies of the same picture made - what effect would it have on you? > Would your image become sluggish (the more their were) interesting pondering! > Some Aboriginal communities believed that photographs 'stole' the soul and > either photos are forbidden or strongly regulated in those communities. What > kind of laws (if any) would the wizarding community have around photo's. Can > you imagine trying to grieve for someone who had recently died only to see > their image moving around and acting like them? - very weird! Or very sweet, if that's what you're used to - it's a good, poignant reminder of how they were whent hey were alive - the same as watching videos -and in the muggle world, we're going to have something like this within the next year - picture frames that play digital video clips - so you can have people waving from your living room end tables. > And is it only photo's that move - surely some of the people mentioned on the > collecting cards must have died before the invention of the camera (and its > subsequent adoption by the Wizard/Witch world). Same sort of process? I think it's the same thing that animates the painted pictures, like Sir Cadogon & the Fat Lady in the castle. From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Dec 20 13:52:57 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:52:57 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Healing spells in HP Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7374 *** Unless I'm overlooking something Jo hasn't written much on the ** subject. In fact this issue as with many others in the canon ** leads to ** far more questions than it does answers. Some things that come to ** mind are- What type of injury is incurable by the common ** witch/wizard ** and therefore requires special care from a professional? If the ** regular witch/wizard could cure most injuries then what's the point ** of St. Mungo's or even Madam Pomfery? What made Mad Eye Moody's ** injuries incurable? ** Unless I'm mistaken, there is something mentioned about Moody wanting to keep his scars because of his paranoid Auror personality. We also know there are some spells there are no counterspells for (Avada Kadavra for example) and it seems to me mental issues are more difficult than physical ones. Like Neville's parents. They're physically Ok, more or less, but mentally not so good. Thus St. Mungo's. Mer From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Dec 20 13:50:38 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:50:38 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off Topic Pronunciation Amusement References: <00da01c06931$f664f7a0$b93670c2@c5s910j> <3A3E9F69.A47A6A7A@texas.net> Message-ID: <017601c06a8b$d6f8ec90$e9b98490@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7375 Hmm. I wouldn't pronounce it any of those. I would use three syllables, not four, and say ED-en-bra. > Neil Ward wrote: > > > We talked a while back about the origins of the Weasleys, trying to pin down > > their accents. The fact that the kids call Molly 'Mum' tends to knock > > certain regional accents out of the picture. If they were from Liverpool, > > for example, they would most likely call her 'Mam' and if they were from the > > north of England they might favour 'Mother' or 'Ma'. > > An off-topic smile for the Brits' enjoyment: My husband (well educated, well > traveled American) was in conversation one time with a executive from Scotland, > who was being rather officious about pronunciations of Edinburgh. He was > lecturing my husband that it was pronounced /ED-in-bur-oh/, but continued that > most people would say /Ed-in-bur-uh/. Etc. My husband let him wind down, then > floored him by pointing out (accurately) that most people in America would > pronounce it /ED-in-burg/. Which is actually how I (well educated, NOT well > traveled), in fact pronounced it until after we were married. Goes to show > ignorance and stupidity are not the same. I hope. > > --Amanda > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Dec 20 13:59:58 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:59:58 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Introductions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7376 ** I guess this is by way of an introduction to the group -- hi, y'all! ** I'm Marty, sister of Meredith Wilson. I'm never sure what ** anyone else ** wants to know about me, so if you're curious about something, please ** feel free to ask. Well, since Marty introduced herself as my sister I should probably introduce myself. :) I've posted a few times, but so you know, I live in Seattle teaching kids about space and flight through the Museum of Flight here. And as you probably can guess, I love all things HP. Like Marty said, the discussion on this list is wonderful and I thoroughly enjoy it. So now that I've been completely off topic, we'll return to your regularly scheduled HP discussion. Meredith From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 13:58:38 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:58:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91pgom+6855@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A40BB0E.89CD0F84@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7377 Good morning all -- Susan McGee wrote: > Hermione is the quintessential adolescent girl who is far more > emotionally mature than the boys her age. Harry is her friend. > (Harry to Victor Krum...That's because we're FRIENDS. She's NOT my > girlfriend. CLEARly indicating to her AND to Molly Weasley that he > has no interest in Hermione except as his FRIEND) Ahem .... I insisted to everyone who would listen that the new guy I was spending *so* much time with in law school was *just* a friend. He likewise insisted the same thing to anyone who would listen. It took a long time for either of us (especially him) to realize & admit that maybe there was more there than just a friendship. He's been my loving husband for over 7 years now. Sometimes the things that get emphasized and voiced the most loudly are just a mask or cover-up for other feelings that one would rather not acknowledge or admit at that particular time. > An aeon ago, when I was 14, it was highly significant when a boy put > his arm around you. BUT, a kiss on the cheek was the sign of > affection, not passion. Yes, but it was *Hermione* who initiated the peck on the cheek, not Harry. When I was 14, I'd have rather died than kiss a boy on the cheek (yes, even one who was just a platonic friend), if he hadn't made some move first. I still say it was a bit significant given her age. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 14:01:42 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:01:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: Message-ID: <3A40BBC6.CF7CEA67@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7378 Hi -- Stephanie Becvar wrote: > But i have to post my theory that while she may have kissed Harry on > the > cheek, Hermione will end up with Ron. Here are my reasons... I won't bore the group with again refuting each of the H/R "reasons" that people come up with. I'll just say that you will hopefully soon be able to consult the FAQ on "Potential Romantic Pairings" for arguments on the other side. If you were really curious in the meantime, you could search the message archives. > I mean, Han and Leai are constantly bickering, they snap at each > other etc. BUT, Han and Leia DO end up with each other....I mean The > sidekick gets the girl, that is THE perk to being a sidekick. You > loose out on fame and glory (excetpt in assosciation) but you get the > girl. Speaking from experience, bickering does not always work out to be a match made in heaven. And, the sidekick does not *always* get the girl. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Dec 20 14:06:26 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:06:26 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7379 ** "Bye, Harry!" said Hermione, and she did something she had ** never done ** > before, and kissed him on the cheek. (GoF, 1st Amer. ed., p. 734) ** > ** > Yes, it was discussed. I think the consensus was that it means ** > nothing. Personally, I agree. I've already established the fact ** > that I have a psychology block that's insurmountable. :) ** ** > My eighth graders from this summer are convinced that Hermione ** likes ** > Harry, and they use the kiss as part of their evidence. "You've ** > forgotten what it's like to be 13 and 14, Miss Thomas," they ** > said. "A kiss is a big deal. Even if it's on the cheek." ** They're ** > not shippers at all, they claim. "It's not a question of who's ** going ** > to get together... it's a question of what's going to happen." ** ** Maybe your kids had something there. After all they're the same age ** as Harry and Hermione, and who would know better the ** emotions of a 14 ** yr old than a 14 yr old. ** ** However Jo isn't 14 and she's the one writing. Perhaps she is more ** inclined to look at it in the same light as members of this group. ** ** I for one agree with the latter, doubting very seriously that it ** meant anything at all. I'm not about to tell that to Ron though! ** ** Scott It's true that Jo isn't 14, but she's done a pretty good job of writing appropriately for the kids in the book. Not that I think the kiss necessarily means anything (though I'd like it to, as a proud H/H shipper...), but also the kiss might mean more to a 14 y/o boy than to a 14 y/o girl. I mean, girls do things frivolously sometimes (especially at 14) and while a quick peck on the cheek is friendly in the eyes of a girl, it might bring up questions for a boy. Or actually, now that I'm writing this, I think the difference might be a giver/receiver thing. What might seem friendly for the giver of a peck on the cheek, might bring up 'what was that supposed to mean' questions from the receiver - regardless of sex. Hmmm... Mer From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 14:10:48 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:10:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: Message-ID: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7380 Hi -- Stephanie Becvar wrote: > I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for > far too long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the > slasher > group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all > know it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are > children's books. Well, we really don't *know* that it is not JKR's intent. As best I know, I've never read a JKR interview where she's said anything about homosexuality or her intent with regard to homosexual characters. We can be fairly certain that each of the 3 main characters has expressed some heterosexual tendencies at this point ... but they are only adolescents. And, uh, .... don't get me started on the whole "these are ONLY childrens' books" after all business. If they are ONLY childrens' books, why are any of US here?????! She's said over and over and over (and Penny has repeated it over and over and over again) that she did NOT set out to write children's books, and she has no target audience in mind for these books. The publishers figured they'd slap a 9-12 age group label on the first book, based on the fact that Harry was 11 in Book 1. Noone asked JKR where these books were headed and if that label would still be appropriate for Books 4-7. > HP to me is not the melodramatic world of american television where > virtually every show has a gay/lesbian character on it...(in case > anyone wonders, I dont have a problem with gay ppl, all of my step > mothers siblings are and i love them all to pieces) Well, to be honest Stephanie, your post is making it sound a bit as though you have a problem with it. Maybe tv shows in America all have a gay or lesbian character now because it's finally acknowledged that this is representational of our society. I'm quite sure that Susan will step in with her arguments for why there should be a gay/lesbian character in the HP series to serve as a role model for so many kids who feel so excluded by mainstream culture. While I agree with Susan in theory, JKR may or may not have that in mind. I'll applaud her if she does. I do agree that the 3 main characters exhibit no tendencies in this direction but like I said, adolescents have been known to change their minds in the course of all those raging hormones. Like Heidi said, it's important to keep in mind that this is an alternative universe that the slash fanfic writers are talking about. All fanfic is in fact an alternative universe. Thus, even if Ron & Hermione get married at the end of Book 7, I can continue to believe in my mind that it should really have happened as it does in PoU. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Dec 20 14:23:11 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:23:11 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7381 storm was saying: ** I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard ** pictures - what ** happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? ** What is it that moves? I don't have an answer to why they move, but it does say that in Harry's book of pictures of his family they wave at him, right? So I would guess they still move after death. It's a great question though because it seems to me that the pictures respond the way the person feels. Lockhart is always vain, Harry's is trying to hide and get out of view. Hmm. Mer From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 20 14:35:24 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:35:24 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron In-Reply-To: <91pha4+jof7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7382 >As I said before, he is more often the target of Draco Malfoy than >Harry is. Draco says far more vicious things about Ron than about >Harry. And Harry gets to fight back, whereas Ron never gets to punch >Draco in the nose. (Although he does get to Watch the fake Moody turn >Draco into the amazing bouncing ferret). It's HERMIONE who smacks >Malfoy. Err, I kinda recall Ron giving Draco a black eye in Book 1, same place where Neville takes on Crabbe and Goyle. From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 20 14:39:48 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:39:48 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7383 >** I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard >** pictures - what >** happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? >** What is it that moves? > >I don't have an answer to why they move, but it does say that in Harry's >book of pictures of his family they wave at him, right? So I would guess >they still move after death. > >It's a great question though because it seems to me that the pictures >respond the way the person feels. Lockhart is always vain, Harry's is >trying to hide and get out of view. Hmm. Perhaps it's a snapshot of the emotional state of mind of the subject at the time. I don't think the 'spread thin' effect occurs, otherwise think of what happens to the people on the Chocolate Frog cards and in the Daily Prophet. Nathan From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 14:33:22 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:33:22 -0000 Subject: help! urgent plea HP for Prez? difference in PS/SS In-Reply-To: <91pe7h+hnsr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91qfvi+pj1b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7384 > Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner > to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for President?" > if so, President of what? Ok, I don't have a copy of PS (asked for one for Christmas though) but I didn't remember this in SS so I checked. Now I'm wondering too, President of what? Did they change this b/c Americans have a President, even though the books still take place in England? (Weird) If so maybe the Brit. ed. says "Potter for Prime Minister"??? Anyway shouldn't it read- "Potter for Minister of Magic" or something similar???!!! Also on this page I noticed that the American edition says "...the whole school seemed to be out in the stands around the Quidditch pitch." However I thought that they used field until at least book IV... Erm, I still didn't answer your question, but perhaps someone will! Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 20 14:48:10 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:48:10 -0000 Subject: Merchdise Madness Message-ID: <002201c06a93$e2eb92c0$3e987ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7385 >Impressive. But I didn't see any puzzles??? They arrived this afternoon! I've now done a new page for my collection - for those who want to view the updated images, visit http://www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/harrypotter/collection.html >I finally put together my "Great Hall" puzzle (the puzzle with the strange shimmer). I've not got that puzzle - maybe next year. Here's a question regarding the puzzles - how do you open them without causing too much damage? I don't want to spoil the boxes, but would be nice to see the puzzles made up. Nick From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Dec 20 14:58:18 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 20 Dec 2000 06:58:18 -0800 Subject: Merchdise Madness Message-ID: <20001220145818.26908.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7386 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 20 14:59:34 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:59:34 -0000 Subject: Potions Class, Day One (filk) Message-ID: <91qhgm+sevn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7387 Potions Class, Day One (to the tune My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean) (The Scene: The former dungeon which now serves as the Potions Classroom. Enter SEVERUS SNAPE, to a class comprised of nervous first- year students) SNAPE The class that I teach is called Potions For a grade that is higher than "C" You must study each day with devotion And do nothing annoying to me Mix up, cut up, slice up those potions for me, for me Stir up, cook up, whip up those potions for me Just a few things which are quite annoying: Those who doze off in class and then snore, Those who my equipment are destroying And anyone from Gryffindor CHORUS OF GRYFFINDOR STUDENTS Mix up, cut up, slice up those potions for Snape, for Snape Stir up, cook up, but don't get him bent out of shape NEVILLE He couldn't be any more scary If he had huge fangs and a cape The cabinet of Dr. Caligari Would be better than Severus Snape CHORUS OF GRYFFINDOR STUDENTS Drop out, drop out, we would if we could but we can't, we can't! Bomb out, bomb out, our GPA's gonna be scant! - CMC From terzarima at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 16:00:30 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:00:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A40D79E.260D7BE5@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7388 Thank you Penny for your thoughtful reply. I was really happy to see this. Stephanie, please don't tatke this personally, but I have to step in and say that I get really, really upset when people imply that what I am (bisexual) is somehow bad, a transgression, something that should be hidden away and not represented in fiction or in the media. Before you rant about the indiginities of having to be exposed to alternative sexuality, you might want to step into my shoes for a moment and think about how it might feel for people of my stripe to have heterosexuality heaved at us from every book, magazine, tv, show etc. as the only right and natural way to be. When the day comes that I find the right partner in life, and if that partner turns out to be female, I am going to buy a very expensive slot in the NYT Bridal section to announce it to the world. Deal with it. Gays and Lesbians are 10% of the population, and I am willing to gamble that many more are bisexual or polyamorous than we really know about. That is a fair chunk of the population, so maybe it is time to lighten up. Who knows what JKR intended? And is it the role of Fan Fiction to stick only to what she intended, whatever that may be? I always thought of it as a parallel universe where other writers may explore stories about "what could be". You are right, these kids are adolescents. JKR, from what I have noticed in Book Four, is more than willing to ackowledge that adolescents have hormones and begin to develop sexual feelings at a certain age. Gay and Lesbian teens develop their feelings right around the same age as heterosexual teens. Statistically speaking, if there are approximately 1000 students at Hogwarts, then there are approximately 100 gays and lesbians, and probably plenty more who are going to question and explore their sexuality. Slash fiction is no different from any other Fan Fiction-- it is merely exploring the possibilities. Personally I am an H/H shipper and a big fan of PoU. Lately I have also been reading Cassandra's Draco Sinister, in which Draco (nasty terrible Draco! The villian in JKR's story!) is a much more likable and sexy guy. Geeez, and here I am writing my own hot and heavy island story about Sirius Black's brief and stormy relationship with a Tantric mermaid . . . . . It involves lots of gillyweed and pina coladas! If slash fiction is offensive and a transgression, then so is this, in spades. Peace, Suzanne Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Stephanie Becvar wrote: > > > I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for > > far too long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the > > slasher > > group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all > > know it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are > > children's books. > > Well, we really don't *know* that it is not JKR's intent. As best I > know, I've never read a JKR interview where she's said anything about > homosexuality or her intent with regard to homosexual characters. We > can be fairly certain that each of the 3 main characters has expressed > some heterosexual tendencies at this point ... but they are only > adolescents. > > And, uh, .... don't get me started on the whole "these are ONLY > childrens' books" after all business. If they are ONLY childrens' > books, why are any of US here?????! She's said over and over and over > (and Penny has repeated it over and over and over again) that she did > NOT set out to write children's books, and she has no target audience in > mind for these books. The publishers figured they'd slap a 9-12 age > group label on the first book, based on the fact that Harry was 11 in > Book 1. Noone asked JKR where these books were headed and if that label > would still be appropriate for Books 4-7. > > > HP to me is not the melodramatic world of american television where > > virtually every show has a gay/lesbian character on it...(in case > > anyone wonders, I dont have a problem with gay ppl, all of my step > > mothers siblings are and i love them all to pieces) > > Well, to be honest Stephanie, your post is making it sound a bit as > though you have a problem with it. Maybe tv shows in America all have a > gay or lesbian character now because it's finally acknowledged that this > is representational of our society. I'm quite sure that Susan will step > in with her arguments for why there should be a gay/lesbian character in > the HP series to serve as a role model for so many kids who feel so > excluded by mainstream culture. While I agree with Susan in theory, JKR > may or may not have that in mind. I'll applaud her if she does. I do > agree that the 3 main characters exhibit no tendencies in this direction > but like I said, adolescents have been known to change their minds in > the course of all those raging hormones. > > Like Heidi said, it's important to keep in mind that this is an > alternative universe that the slash fanfic writers are talking about. > All fanfic is in fact an alternative universe. Thus, even if Ron & > Hermione get married at the end of Book 7, I can continue to believe in > my mind that it should really have happened as it does in PoU. > > Penny > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 15:45:45 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:45:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> Message-ID: <003301c06a9b$ebfa52e0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7389 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > All fanfic is in fact an alternative universe. Thus, even if Ron & > Hermione get married at the end of Book 7, I can continue to believe in > my mind that it should really have happened as it does in PoU. For the list Newbies...PoU is a fanfic titled Harry Potter and the Paradigm of Uncertainty. It takes place when the gang is 27, or there abouts. Its a great story very popular with H/H shippers. There's a link on this egoup's home page under links and fanfiction or you can find it and about 10,000 other fanfictions at www.fanfiction.net carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 16:04:30 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: Message-ID: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7390 Ok Stephanie the Seething...first...take a couple of deep breaths. Ok do we feel better. That was not meant to be patronizing...I'm a mom of 3 and that's what I tell my boys when they are seething. Next read Penny and Suzannes' thoughtful reply's. I'm just going to add a little bit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Becvar" > I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for far too > long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the slasher > group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all know > it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are children's > books. They start out as books about an 11 year old, but will end up as books about a 17 year old. These issues are going to come up. JKR may or may not deal with homosexuality, but it is a realistic issue to deal with amongst 14-17 year olds. > Also being 16, i can pretty closely relate with what is going on. I > have a lot of close friends. But particularly i have a best friend, a girl > signe, and a very close friend but not quite as good as best ;) guy friend > chris. Now, Chris and I are very close, But we could never be as close as > Signe or i mainly bc we relate to each others emotions better as females. > that however does not mean we need to start having sexual feelings. And no one is saying that you do need to start having sexual feelings for a close girlfriend or a close male friend...and as a mom I would prefer that my kids did not have sexual feelings until they are 45....but, out there in the universe there are 2 best girlfriends who are closer than blood that maybe do have sexual feelings for one another. The slasher fics are simply exploring that universe. That does not mean you have to read them or like them, or appreciate them. I have trouble with the slash fics involving Sirius and Lupin...just because I am in love with Sirius and so Lupin cannot have him... (sticks her tongue out). (I still want to read your fic suzanne about Sirius and the mermaid...can I beta read...she asks longingly ). There are also plenty of people around who will not read a Harry / Cho fic because that pair makes them nauseous. There are also a lot of purists who do not read fanfic in order not to corrupt their view of JKR's world. Its your choice. > I mean, where have Harry and Ron ever shown any sign or tendency as > to this? Normally i am open minded with these things bc i can see a point i > know of evidence that i myself remember that could point this way, but for > this i see none. There was this one scene where Harry is appreciating Ron's ankle's...I heard about......this is a joke...but people pick up on actions in different ways based on their personal perspectives. There are plenty of signs the slashers pick up that might seem horribly innocent to a non-slasher. >....but until > then i remain vehmnently opposed to this :) Why vehemently...I'm curious Carole...the freaked out because Christmas is almost here and she's not ready!!!! From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Dec 20 16:35:53 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:35:53 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: help! urgent plea HP for Prez? differenc e in PS/SS Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7391 ** > Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner ** > to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for ** President?" ** > if so, President of what? President of the class? I don't know... Mer From gkallen2 at home.com Wed Dec 20 19:33:36 2000 From: gkallen2 at home.com (Greg and Kelly) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:33:36 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> <003301c06a9b$ebfa52e0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <007501c06abb$bf319460$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7392 THANK YOU - YOU READ MY MIND!! I was just about to ask . . . I'll go check it out now. . . Kelly Michigan, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole Estes" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > > > > All fanfic is in fact an alternative universe. Thus, even if Ron & > > Hermione get married at the end of Book 7, I can continue to believe in > > my mind that it should really have happened as it does in PoU. > > For the list Newbies...PoU is a fanfic titled Harry Potter and the Paradigm > of Uncertainty. It takes place when the gang is 27, or there abouts. Its a > great story very popular with H/H shippers. There's a link on this egoup's > home page under links and fanfiction or you can find it and about 10,000 > other fanfictions at www.fanfiction.net > > carole > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Dec 20 16:45:28 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:45:28 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7393 Suzanne said: ** way to be. When ** the day comes that I find the right partner in life, and if ** that partner ** turns out to be female, I am going to buy a very expensive ** slot in the NYT ** Bridal section to announce it to the world. Deal with it. ** Gays and Lesbians ** are 10% of the population, and I am willing to gamble that ** many more are ** bisexual or polyamorous than we really know about. That is a ** fair chunk of ** the population, so maybe it is time to lighten up. My belief (even though I am married to a wonderful man 'Go for it! Why limit your choices?!' I agree if I had found someone perfect and it happened to be a female, so be it. It seems silly if someone is your soulmate (if you believe in that sort of thing) then a soul really has no male or female, just whatever sex it happens to be associated with during this life. Ok, I'll shut up now. :) ** guy. Geeez, and ** here I am writing my own hot and heavy island story about ** Sirius Black's ** brief and stormy relationship with a Tantric mermaid . . . . ** . It involves ** lots of gillyweed and pina coladas! If slash fiction is ** offensive and a ** transgression, then so is this, in spades. And Suzanne, where might I find this? Mer From terzarima at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 16:48:57 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:48:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! (And Sirius/ Sexy Mermaid) References: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A40E2F9.4A519DD5@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7394 Carole Estes wrote: > They start out as books about an 11 year old, but will end up as books about > a 17 year old. These issues are going to come up. JKR may or may not deal > with homosexuality, but it is a realistic issue to deal with amongst 14-17 > year olds. I would add that if kids are old enough to read romances about boy meets girl, then they are also old enough to read about girl meets girl or boy meets boy. Kids who are dealing with their brand new and budding gay and lesbian sexuality may in fact be LONGING to read fiction which affirms who they are. I can't think of many ways of writing about such things in ways that would be appropriate for very young audiences. Fiction about same sex pairings does not have to involve sex. I did not have sex until I was eighteen, but I vividly remember many chaste and innocent crushes I had as a child on various fairy tale heroines. I remember asking my mother "Why can't I marry Irma when I grow up?" long before I knew anything about sex or even knew the word lesbian. Once upon a sandbox, my playmate John made fun of my hair and everyone said with a wink "Awww, he probably really likes you! Boys are like that..." When Eileen (future lesbian! Whoo hoo! ) tackled me and threw sand down my shirt, though, nobody noticed but me. This is real. I know exactly where you are coming from Carol and if I had kids I would not want them to have sex until they are at least 30 *chuckle*. I believe that the longer kids put this off the better. Nevertheless sexuall feelings and emotional attachments start young and run very deep. > just because > I am in love with Sirius and so Lupin cannot have him... (sticks her tongue > out). Hehehehhe... Me too. I am a greedy girl. > (I still want to read your fic suzanne about Sirius and the > mermaid...can I beta read...she asks longingly ). I have been working on it in earnest, and it has really evolved. I originally thought I would just write a trashy beach story about what Sirius was doing in that tropical place where he hid after PoA. It has turned into something with some depth, and I think it will dovetail in nicely with ASA (I like that story so much, I just have to think of Cordelia as his future). The beach babe has turned into a bonafide mermaid (albeit a lot more attractive than what is described in GoF, and very otehrwordly), and Sirius's relationship with her will be both healing.... and have some bearing on his future. Mermaids get around, you see..... *wink* When I have something that is ready for Beta, I will send it on to you and anyone else who is interested. Lately I have had very little time to write with all the Christmas rush, but it is in the works. Peace, Suzanne From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Dec 20 16:38:53 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:38:53 -0000 Subject: Potions Class, Day One (filk) Message-ID: <001601c06aa6$26381960$e0997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7395 I like it... must pass this one on to Henry's drama class (if you don't mind that is), drama classes are always interested in new content for practising. I know I'm a bit thick... but can you help out with a few points: >The cabinet of Dr. Caligari Who is Dr. Caligari? >Bomb out, bomb out, our GPA's gonna be scant! What does GPA stand for? Thanks Nick (a bit think when it comes to these things) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Dec 20 17:08:14 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 20 Dec 2000 09:08:14 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! Message-ID: <20001220170814.21390.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7396 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Dec 20 17:11:32 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:11:32 -0000 Subject: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <91q4dk+8dtm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91qp84+ceu8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7397 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, zsenya at y... wrote: > AIGHGHHGH! > I have been receiving HP for Grownups in digest form for weeks now (I > posted a bit in the beginning) but have to come out of lurkdom to > defend Ron, I just have to. > > I think Ron is a wonderful character in that he is very *normal.* > People talk about getting funny feelings about Ron, that there is > something unsettling about him - perhaps there is something unsettling > about every 14 year old boy? To me, there is something much more > freaky about Harry. I mean, he's so polite and nice but he's been > brought up in such an awful home and his worst trait seems to be a > slight disregard for rules and a tendency to sulk a bit. > > People who don't like Ron seem to think that he complains about things > that he shouldn't complain about (like his wonderful family, for > example), but I find those complaints make him more human. I have a > wonderful family life and at 14 I really wished I didn't so that I > could fit in better with my punk rock friends. > > Another writer described Ron as "pale" and "relatively nondescript" I > am gripping my computer tightly and gasping. Are we reading the same > books? I wonder if myself and a friend of mine who have been writing > Ron/Hermione fanfics have just projected a bunch of characteristics > onto him that don't really have any basis in the books. Who is Ron > really, as JK Rowling writes him? True, we can't know his inner > thoughts, because the stories are not from his POV, but he is a very > vocal character. I think there is little doubt as to how Ron is > feeling most of the time. I'm sure you guys have been through these > points before, but, I mean, look at the way he sacrificed himself on > the chess board, look at how he went down into the Chamber of Secrets > to find his sister, look at how he stood up to Harry in front of > Sirius Black. True, GoF dealt with situations in which Ron could not > really play a heroic part, but if he had been able to help, he would > have. And he will. I am sure of it. And if he betrays Harry in any > way, well, then, my heart will be broken, and I will just have to > write my own Harry Potter books and forget about JK Rowling. So There. > > Also, re: a few of the other threads, (as I said before, I am a big > Ron/Hermione shipper) wasn't it Anne Shirley herself who said > something to the effect that she wanted the man she fell in love with > to be a little bit wicked. Truth be told, if you look at all the Anne > books, Gilbert is a bit boring by the end there (don't get me wrong, > he's still great, and has his moments, but he is very sort of, well, > just there, being honorable and good, isn't he?) To me, Ron is lovely > and wicked. Harry isn't perfect, but he's likely to suffer from all > sorts of depression and intimacy issues as he grows up due to his > upbringing. > > Oh! And I was a big fan of Edmund in Lion, the Witch, and the > Wardrobe. Maybe there's something wrong with me but I couldn't help > it. He was so misunderstood - but he came around didn't he - he got > to be a king with his siblings. And actually, it is Susan who turns > out to be the black sheep if you get to the end of the series. I > never did like her. > > Re: the kiss - I don't think it meant anything. If ANYTHING, it > proves that Hermione likes Ron (hehe) - if you like someone you are > probably completely afraid to have any physical contact with them at > all, whereas if you just consider someone a friend, a little peck on > the cheek is a nice gesture of friendship. Poor girl probably > trembles with emotion every time Ron is near - he's so tall and > red-headed. > > Okay, well, I hope nobody's upset (and I hope you recognize that I'm > being good-natured - it's hard to come across in email)- I just felt I > had to speak up in defense of Ron. Poor guy! My friend and I are > actually working on a project now, which we plan to "debut" after New > Year's which is a website devoted to fanfiction writing and our dear > friend Ron. I will post an official announcement when it is all done. > > Happy Holidays everyone! I agree with you on some of your points. Ron is 'normal'. Ron is normal like Seamus, Dean, Ernie or Justin. I think his mediocrity is emphasized when compared to Harry and Hermione. During Ron and Harry's falling out in GoF, Ron was able to "hang out with" Seamus, Dean, Fred, George and Lee Jordan rather easily. It tells me that Ron isn't as introverted as Harry or Hermione, who made no attempts to socialize with other groups during their falling outs. But, considering Harry's Dursley background, I expect him to be somewhat introverted and socially inept. As for Gilbert Blythe, he wasn't completely 'true' to Anne. I remember that he was engaged to Christine in one of the middle books and in one of the later books he flirted with Christine, ignoring Anne as she tripped into a puddle. Edmund was a complex character, in a way, reminiscent of Snape: a reformed traitor. I think getting stabbed in the belly during the big fight was the first step to redemption. At the end of "Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe", King Edmund was very wise and gave good advise to High King Peter, He was quite level-headed in "Prince Caspian and the Voyage of the Dawn Treader". (I thought Susan's end was more shocking, as Lewis never gave any hints to support it.) Edmund and Snape exemplify that despite past poor choices, one can rise above it and change. :-) Milz From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Dec 20 17:40:40 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:40:40 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] help! urgent plea HP for Prez? difference in PS/SS Message-ID: <20001220174040.922.qmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7398 President of what I do not know, but it does say "Potter for President" in the UK edition as well. --- Susan McGee skrev: [snip] > Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner > to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for President?" > if so, President of what? > ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Dec 20 17:43:13 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:43:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs Message-ID: <20001220174313.1298.qmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7399 --- Snuffles MacGoo skrev: > I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard pictures - > what > happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? What is it > that moves? [snip] The old headmasters and headmistresses whose photos were hanging on the walls of Professor Dumbledore's office all were sleeping. I think the level of activity in a photo has a lot to do with whether there are anbybody interested on the photo. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 18:17:13 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:17:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7400 About my most recent post, I must say it was a bit more vehmnent that i had intended Most of what i wanted to say just didnt come out right...probably as I was writing it at about 3:00 am ;) I wanted to clear up some things.....Because i did rather make an idiot out of myself, and am feeling rather moronic. A) Angry was far from being the right word to use....I would say it was frustrating, bc I take all of my analysis based on factual happenings in the books. B) I did not mean these are "Only" children's books...nor that they were necessarily intended for children, BUT kids are a large part of the audience. I mean, Imagine my horror when my little 9 year old sister who reads these books ran to get me from my room over the summer while i was at my dads to show me a fan fic she had found about Hermione getting prgnant at the ownderful age of 16 with Harry as the Father. C) that leads well into my next point, I dont have a problem with fan fic esp as i understand it as a wonderful creative outlet to fill in the time gap between release and i have done some for my own amusement, but for me i can not enjoy it unless i feel it fits with the flow of the stories, or could feasibly happen, but that is just me and i want to say sorry if i angered anyone who does do slash writings. Again, I am sorry for the er.....vehmnence of that post. I dont know what came over me I am normally a very open minded person on these things and keep opinions on such topics to myself, mainly bc i find i am one of the few WITH these opinions. So sorry in case i offened anyone, and if not, i look at this email to hopefully rectify me and not bring me back into idiotdom. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 18:17:57 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:17:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry...toned down Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7401 About my most recent post, I must say it was a bit more vehmnent that i had intended Most of what i wanted to say just didnt come out right...probably as I was writing it at about 3:00 am ;) I wanted to clear up some things.....Because i did rather make an idiot out of myself, and am feeling rather moronic. A) Angry was far from being the right word to use....I would say it was frustrating, bc I take all of my analysis based on factual happenings in the books. B) I did not mean these are "Only" children's books...nor that they were necessarily intended for children, BUT kids are a large part of the audience. I mean, Imagine my horror when my little 9 year old sister who reads these books ran to get me from my room over the summer while i was at my dads to show me a fan fic she had found about Hermione getting prgnant at the ownderful age of 16 with Harry as the Father. C) that leads well into my next point, I dont have a problem with fan fic esp as i understand it as a wonderful creative outlet to fill in the time gap between release and i have done some for my own amusement, but for me i can not enjoy it unless i feel it fits with the flow of the stories, or could feasibly happen, but that is just me and i want to say sorry if i angered anyone who does do slash writings. Again, I am sorry for the er.....vehmnence of that post. I dont know what came over me I am normally a very open minded person on these things and keep opinions on such topics to myself, mainly bc i find i am one of the few WITH these opinions. So sorry in case i offened anyone, and if not, i look at this email to hopefully rectify me and not bring me back into idiotdom. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 18:20:05 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:20:05 -0000 Subject: Wand order correction...(UK) Message-ID: <91qt8l+4oej@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7402 Penny was asking recently about the infamous 'wand order correction' (WOC - I think it deserves an acronym) in the UK version of "Goblet of Fire": I managed to find some '?3 off' issues with the correction and, as far as I could tell, the rewording was exactly as we've seen already. There were some purple 'special' editions on the next shelf with the original wording intact. I haven't seen any coverage of this in the press. I guess both publishers tried to shuffle the correction out under a cloak of invisibility. Fat chance of that with people like us scrutinising their every move... I'm forced to conclude that JKR approved this correction. It seems to me very unlikely that Bloomsbury and Scholastic would be able to agree the same rewording without the author's involvement. I think we were right to have concerns about the effects on JKR's writing of GoF being rushed to meet the deadline. I think we should bear that in mind if the next book takes a while longer than we'd like to appear. No stamping of feet and screaming - agreed? Neil From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 20 18:58:44 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:58:44 -0000 Subject: Potions Class, Day One (filk) In-Reply-To: <001601c06aa6$26381960$e0997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91qvh4+j300@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7403 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > I know I'm a bit thick... but can you help out with a few points: > > >The cabinet of Dr. Caligari > > Who is Dr. Caligari? The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920) is a classic German horror film from the silent era. The brilliant expressionistic sets are still influential today (eg, Beetlejuice). Dr. Caligari himself is a sinister Svengali-like figure associated with this broken down traveling circus, who may or may not be responsible for a mysterious murder. > >Bomb out, bomb out, our GPA's gonna be scant! > > What does GPA stand for? > Grade Point Average. I don't know if Britain uses the same system, but in American schools, A's are 4 points, B's are 3 points, etc. Students around Harry's age are (or should be) very concerned about keeping their GPA high, since this is an important determinant of college admission. If your son wants to use this filk in his class, that's OK by me. But I think I want to change that final line to "bomb out, burn out..." - CMC From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:08:05 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:08:05 -0000 Subject: More About That Kiss... Message-ID: <91r02m+r5pg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7404 Yes, I'm beating a dead horse. :) I'm at school right now (Christmas week is full of parties and holiday programs--during movies and game time I have *rare* Internet time), and my Drama tech kids (all 8th graders) and I are having a post-production meeting over pizza as we speak. I talked about yesterday's thread and asked their opinion. Keep in mind these are American kids, mostly urban and exposed to a lot... common wisdom would have you think that a kiss on the cheek is a walk in the park. I explained to them the arguments on both sides. This is what the girls (all 13/14) in this group want "those adults Ms. Thomas talks to online to know"... "She's either testing the waters, playing games... or a touchy-feely person. If she's always hugging on people (here I asked "typically physically affectionate? Very outgoing?" they said yes), then no, it doesn't mean anything. But if not... it means something. Even if she doesn't have a big crush on him, the thought of crush potential *has* entered her mind. She wants to see his reaction for whatever reason." "But don't you think if you were interested in someone, you'd do a lot more to show it?" (Me, playing devil's advocate) "Not if you didn't know if they liked you too." They then told me about a current situation where a friend of theirs likes her best friend, and is trying to find out if he likes her. "What if he's more than a friend? What if he's like your brother? What if someone was out to get him, and you didn't know the next time you'd see him alive?" (Me again) Long pause. "Nah..." they all said in unison. "A nice, tight hug would do..." Here they seemed to struggle for words. "She... she... she's... it's like a seed!" "A seed?" I replied, amused. "She's planting a seed." Now I was thoroughly confused and said so. "Ms. Thomas, you've forgotten what it's like to be our age!" (Only as a elementary/middle school teacher can a 23 year old who is often mistaken for a high school kid in appearance be considered in her dotage.) Fifteen minutes later, I'm thinking about this. My kids are light-years away from the Hogwarts kids in relationship sophistication. My fifth graders have "boyfriends and girlfriends" and a number have dates for tomorrow's middle school dance (our middle school is grades 5-8, ages 10-14 if you're outside the US), a surprising number of my sixth graders have had their first kiss, and some of the seventh and eighth (I suspect) are sexually active. You'd think that the kiss as I read it just now would mean nothing to them... so of course it'd mean nothing to a fictional 14 year old growing up in a very old-fashioned milieu. So my new thoughts are this (forgetting the psychobabble from lit crit seminar and thinking about what the kids said): Hermione never put Harry into the brother category. He and Ron are her best friends. He, however, has put her into the sister category. Hermione's involvement with Krum was the first indication we have that anyone is interested in her in a "romantic" way. She also knows by the end of GoF that Ron likes her. If the cheek kiss is a litmus test, it could have been any number of things. If she's watching for a reaction (blushing, etc), which there is no indication of, perhaps she is just making certain that Harry's feelings won't change towards her the way Ron has. Remember, they've just experienced something very traumatic. Change at a time when everything is changing is not always pleasant... even if deep down she reciprocates Ron's interest, she may wonder if Harry's going to change, too. Also, kissing Harry (who has shown no interest in her) might have been easier and less "scary" than kissing Ron (who is starting to like her). She may not know how she feels. Or she may feel something for Ron, but be afraid of losing his friendship. I don't know if this is common, but I know when I told my man that I loved him in 1998 I was *terrified*--I was so afraid that I'd lose the best male friend I ever had. I had quite a bit of indication that he was interested as well, and it frightened me because for the first time in almost 21 years of living I was glimpsing The Real Thing. I knew it'd change me. I also knew we'd never be the same again... and we aren't. You do feel an indescribable sense of "loss"... I've had his love for 2 1/2 years now, but I missed the three year long platonic friendship that preceded it like everything at first. Still have those pangs of nostalgia for it at times. I don't think it's possible to understand the above without experiencing it, not really. That's why PoU was such a hit with those of us who are married to or in a relationship with their best friend. Who knows--if someone had written a R/H story on the same level, with the same depth of characterization, I might be arguing for the opposite side of things. (Yeah, right.) OK--I went all over the place with this one. But the bottom line is that we've learned not to take anything in a JKR book for granted. It's on the last page for something. Either it's a red herring plot device (throw those crazy H/H folks I've been hearing about a bone), or it's something more. Or maybe I'm teaching at a school full of relics from the 1800s in their worldviews. :) --Ebony From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Dec 20 19:24:17 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:24:17 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Humor Message-ID: <91r111+9r0g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7405 Newsweek Magazine had as one of its top 10 nonpolitical cartoons of hte year a book cover for HARRY POTTER & THE HEARTBREAKING WORK OF STAGGERING GENIUS, by JK Eggers (i.e. what happens When Books Collide) - the image is here: http://modernhumorist.com/mh/0005/harry/index.cfm If you follow the links from that page, you get the best spoof of the HP books which is also simultaneously the best spoof of the Dave Eggers memoir/bio (if you don't know about that book, it's David Eggers (one of hte editors of Might (a zine)) tale of what happened in his life after his parents died when he was 22, and he became the guardian of his 8 year old brother). Go read the whole thing - I'm putting a bit here to whet your appetite (please put down your drink now. thank you) <> Oh, and it mentions sex. And harry. and hermione. all in the same sentence. Go read it! From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 19:04:43 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:04:43 -0500 Subject: Sirius/ Sexy Mermaid References: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> <3A40E2F9.4A519DD5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003b01c06ab7$b78b6820$d968d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7406 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne Burns" > > just because > > I am in love with Sirius and so Lupin cannot have him... (sticks her tongue > > out). > > Hehehehhe... Me too. I am a greedy girl. I'll share him with you..... > I have been working on it in earnest, and it has really evolved. I originally > thought I would just write a trashy beach story about what Sirius was doing in > that tropical place where he hid after PoA. It has turned into something with > some depth, and I think it will dovetail in nicely with ASA (I like that story > so much, I just have to think of Cordelia as his future). Ooooo very cool! (for newbies...ASA is another fanfic written by me and Penny titled A Sirius Affair...its a prequel to the earlier mentioned fic...PoU and can be found at the same egroup link). Should we change our verbage in chapter 7 to allude to the fact that he hasn't slept with a *human* in 20 years? >The beach babe has turned into a bonafide mermaid (albeit a lot more attractive than what is described in GoF, and very otehrwordly), and Sirius's relationship with her will > be both healing.... and have some bearing on his future. Mermaids get around, > you see..... *wink* Oooo this sounds very cool! > > When I have something that is ready for Beta, I will send it on to you and > anyone else who is interested. Lately I have had very little time to write with > all the Christmas rush, but it is in the works. We (Penny and I anyway) understand that...which is why ASA 12 is still very much a work in progress. Carole make sure you have my correct email address...I changed it recently (last week). Wouldn't want it to get lost in the mail! lrcjestes at earthlink.net From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:34:19 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:34:19 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91osds+jvuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91r1jr+v0co@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7407 I've read the entire thread carefully and I agree with Stefanie, that Ron and Hermione fit a well established plot pattern. To that I would like to add another consideration that further undermines the H/H opinion (IMHO, of course). Its this - isn't Hermione the last person who would kiss in such a way a boy she has romantic feelings for? I'm sure that if Hermione was attracted to Harry, she would a) deny it even to herself for as long as she possibly could and b)would be entirely too self-conscious and fearful of ridicule to make such a warm gesture of affection (and in public, no less!). AND, I've just remembered, she broke down hysterically (!) when she realized that RON forgave her. When Harry showed he wasn't angry with her wasn't all that moved (as I recall, I don't have my copy here right now). Naama, surprised to find herself an H/R shipper. From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:50:01 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:50:01 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] help! urgent plea HP for Prez? difference in PS/SS References: <20001220174040.922.qmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7408 >From PS, page 136: "Ron and Hermione joined Neville, Seamus and Dean the West Ham fan up in the top row. As a surprise for Harry, they had painted a large banner on one of the sheets Scabbers had ruined. It said Potter for President and Dean, who was good at drawing, had done a large Gryffindor lion underneath. Then Hermione had performed a tricky little charm so that the paint flashed different colours." As I see it, either this was Dean's Idea, as a copy of West Ham game banners, or they humorously suggested him for house president - otherwise, why the lion? thanks, yael ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Stub? To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] help! urgent plea HP for Prez? difference in PS/SS President of what I do not know, but it does say "Potter for President" in the UK edition as well. --- Susan McGee skrev: [snip] > Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner > to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for President?" > if so, President of what? > ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub? Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p? http://no.photos.yahoo.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:01:01 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:01:01 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry...toned down References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7409 Apology accepted. You can find many stories on ff.net that match your taste. Most of them contain "fifth year" in their description. Not trying to criticize you, but you said you were 16 (am I right?) and this list, as described, is designed for the taste of adults. There is a good chance that you got so upset simply because the content of the messages on this list addressed a slightly more mature audience. This doesn't come to say that you are an immature person. Far from it. It just states that there are some things in life you have to experience on your flesh (I'm not talking specifically about bi-sexual relationship). I'm rambling here.. yael ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephanie Becvar About my most recent post, I must say it was a bit more vehmnent that i had intended Most of what i wanted to say just didnt come out right...probably as I was writing it at about 3:00 am ;) I wanted to clear up some things.....Because i did rather make an idiot out of myself, and am feeling rather moronic. A) Angry was far from being the right word to use....I would say it was frustrating, bc I take all of my analysis based on factual happenings in the books. B) I did not mean these are "Only" children's books...nor that they were necessarily intended for children, BUT kids are a large part of the audience. I mean, Imagine my horror when my little 9 year old sister who reads these books ran to get me from my room over the summer while i was at my dads to show me a fan fic she had found about Hermione getting prgnant at the ownderful age of 16 with Harry as the Father. C) that leads well into my next point, I dont have a problem with fan fic esp as i understand it as a wonderful creative outlet to fill in the time gap between release and i have done some for my own amusement, but for me i can not enjoy it unless i feel it fits with the flow of the stories, or could feasibly happen, but that is just me and i want to say sorry if i angered anyone who does do slash writings. Again, I am sorry for the er.....vehmnence of that post. I dont know what came over me I am normally a very open minded person on these things and keep opinions on such topics to myself, mainly bc i find i am one of the few WITH these opinions. So sorry in case i offened anyone, and if not, i look at this email to hopefully rectify me and not bring me back into idiotdom. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:53:49 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:53:49 -0000 Subject: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <3A40225D.CAF126D4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91r2od+2mij@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7410 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Carole already filled you in on the slash genre. I will only add that the "thing he'd miss most" business is most likely just a function of the plot. Harry doesn't have a girlfriend at that point like Cedric & Krum, and it sort of helped the plot along that both Harry's best friends were down at the bottom of the lake along with his love interest (Cho). Otherwise, there wouldn't be that nobility bit going on. And, don't forget that he didn't take Ron to the surface & then try to come back & be the hero -- he immediately turned to help Hermione & refused to leave until he could be sure of her safety (& Cho's). > I think you've forgotten Fleur's sister, Gabrielle. It was mainly because of her that he was the last to return (not to mention almost drowned). His "moral fibre" was exemplified precisely by helping a person who was completely UNrelated to him, and moreover, WAS related to one of his competitors. Naama From AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:56:43 2000 From: AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com (Alicia/Sue Spinnet) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:56:43 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <3A40201E.C1C9CC9F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91r2tr+ftkn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7411 Making up for four months of school-related *goes into convulsion* absence with little comments on subjects that were probably dropped weeks ago... Penny wrote: > Then again ... it's been a long time since I was 14, so maybe I'm just > not remembering it all that well. I wouldn't have thought twice about > kissing my guy buddies on the cheek at age 17 or 21 ... but 14? I don't > think so. I agree... although it does depend on the type of personality. Some 14 year-olds might feel comfortable with displays of platonic affection such as that, but Hermione? I can't see it. She doesn't seem like the type to drop a platonic peck on the cheek out of almost- nowhere. *shrug* Just my one cent (Christmas shopping has limited my funds)-- --Alicia/Sue "McGonagall on Speed" Spinnet From AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:07:55 2000 From: AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com (Alicia/Sue Spinnet) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:07:55 -0000 Subject: Long OT Re: Freudian/Lacanian In-Reply-To: <91pdf7+9iuk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91r3ir+irbn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7412 > One of the reasons that I hate English and Literature as subjects is > that, once we were out of sixth grade and writing essays about the > "theme" (actually, the "moral", as in "the theme of this story is > that prejudice is unfair") of the assigned story, the next seven > years (required Freshman Comp was the LAST English class I ever took, > hallelu-ilat!) was writing essays about the Freudian symbolism in the > assigned story. Cranking out identifications of things as Freudian > symbols is an easy enough mechanical exercise that I got Bs (if it's > longer than it's wide, it's a phallic symbol; if it's wider than it's > long, it much be a vaginal symbol). No dissention here. I've spent the last semester overanalyzing all of my favorite classics in sophomore English to the point where I never want to read them, or even think about them, again. "The Catcher in the Rye", "Huck Finn"... my teacher even found a way to ruin "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" for me! *cries* Ahem. Anyway. If that man even *touches* on HP, I will scream and throw my grammar book across the room in a display of insubordination. Or maybe not. Groaning as she realizes that Freudian symbolism will probably poke its ugly little head sometime in the enxt semester, --Alicia/Sue "McGonagall on Speed" Spinnet From twinksuk at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:12:49 2000 From: twinksuk at hotmail.com (~ Leyo ~) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:12:49 -0000 Subject: Support for He/R Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7413 A tidbit of support for He/R shippers: When asked "was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of Goblet of Fire?" in the Yahoo/Barnes&Noble chat, she responded "Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy.", which suggests Hermione might have feelings for Ron, even though he's being a bit ... blunt. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:14:05 2000 From: AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com (Alicia/Sue Spinnet) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:14:05 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91pgfr+mqbv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91r3ud+rsee@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7414 Rita wrote: > I'm 43 now, so it's been longer since I was 14 than you, but I > remember doing a hell of a lot more than pecks on the cheek... I've > already mentioned that I occasionally get nervous that I might be > banned from the list as a bad influence on the under-18 members.... > If she was me at 14, she'd have hugged him tight and kissed him on > the mouth and the only clue as to whether she was feeling friendly or > sexual would be whether her lips were open or closed. Don't worry, Rita, I'm warped enough already. *vbg* As the exact opposite: I would probably have given one of my male friends a "friendly" punch, and the sexual/platonic question would be answered by where I chose my blow to land. Punching the air and momentarily pretending that she's Ginny the Vampire Slayer, --Alicia/Sue "McGonagall on Speed" Spinnet From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 20:17:26 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:17:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91r1jr+v0co@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4113D6.2587282@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7415 Hi -- naama wrote: > AND, I've just remembered, she broke down hysterically (!) when she > realized that RON forgave her. When Harry showed he wasn't angry with > her wasn't all that moved (as I recall, I don't have my copy here > right now). Harry was never really angry with her in the first place -- not too much anyway. Not long after the Firebolt was confiscated, he's thinking that he knew she meant well, and he was hoping they could make it up soon. By the time stubborn Ron got around to forgiving her, Harry & Hermione had more or less already made their peace. > Naama, surprised to find herself an H/R shipper. That's okay -- we'll forgive you anyway. > I think you've forgotten Fleur's sister, Gabrielle. It was > mainly because of her that he was the last to return (not to mention > almost drowned). His "moral fibre" was exemplified precisely by > helping a person who was completely UNrelated to him, and moreover, > WAS related to one of his competitors. > I didn't forget Fleur's sister. My main point was just that *if* there was a slash element to be found in the fact that Ron was Harry's "thing he'd miss most," then that theory is a bit undercut by the fact that he didn't take Ron immediately to the surface before trying to rescue the others. Incidentally, Ebony's main H/H point with this scene has always been that once Harry freed his own hostage, instead of turning to his love interest & undercutting his rival Cedric, he turned instinctively & immediately to Hermione & began trying to extricate her. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 20:18:25 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:18:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Humor References: <91r111+9r0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A411411.BE04CF7A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7416 Hi -- heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu wrote: > Oh, and it mentions sex. And harry. and hermione. all in the same > sentence. > You have my attention! I think this week's issue arrived yesterday -- going to check. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 20:37:25 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:37:25 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <91qp84+ceu8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91r5a5+7lbc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7417 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > As for Gilbert Blythe, he wasn't completely 'true' to Anne. I > remember that he was engaged to Christine in one of the middle books > and in one of the later books he flirted with Christine, ignoring > Anne as she tripped into a puddle. > I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged to Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases it was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! Naama From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 20:39:20 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:39:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Greeting References: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> <91mhsn+6l32@eGroups.com> <20001219173541.A20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <3A4118F7.1E3F6DB5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7418 marty at martynet.org wrote: > I guess this is by way of an introduction to the group -- hi, y'all! > I'm Marty, sister of Meredith Wilson. I'm never sure what anyone else > wants to know about me, so if you're curious about something, please > feel free to ask. Hi! I'll ask. Who's Meredith Wilson? Another list person? I don't remember everyone's name by a long shot... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 20:45:31 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:45:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs References: <01C06ACE.DB002180.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A411A6B.138A64A7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7419 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard pictures - what > happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? What is it that moves? > - Gilroy Lockart's photographic image appeared to share his vanity, What else > might they share? How is they linked? Are you spread to thin if you have > multiple copies of the same picture made - what effect would it have on you? > Would your image become sluggish (the more their were) > > Some Aboriginal communities believed that photographs 'stole' the soul and > either photos are forbidden or strongly regulated in those communities. What > kind of laws (if any) would the wizarding community have around photo's. Can > you imagine trying to grieve for someone who had recently died only to see > their image moving around and acting like them? - very weird! Well, we have cassettes and CDs that still faithfully reproduce the sound of a deceased person's voice, and movies that make long-dead people seem alive. I think it's just a different "technology," and the magical world is used enough to moving "still" photos to deal with waving pictures after a death. They might put them away for a bit, like plenty of Muggles do when they don't want to see non-waving reminders of their recently deceased, but I don't think the images would fade or get still. The motion is a product of the developing process--Colin Creevy said there was a special potion you develop the film (apparently the same) in to make the images move. > And is it only photo's that move - surely some of the people mentioned on the > collecting cards must have died before the invention of the camera (and its > subsequent adoption by the Wizard/Witch world). Same sort of process? Again, the photos move because of the developing potion. There may be a similar one for illustrations, but do we know if the pictures on the cards are photos or depictions? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 20:56:32 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:56:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: help! urgent plea HP for Prez? differenc e in PS/SS References: Message-ID: <3A411CFF.3A1E0600@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7420 Meredith Wilson wrote: > ** > Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner > ** > to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for > ** President?" > ** > if so, President of what? > > President of the class? I don't know... Well, I went to Winston Churchill High School, and *we* had a Prime Minister and a Parliament. But Hogwarts isn't aping anything American, so I fail to see why it would be President. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 21:05:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:05:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: Message-ID: <3A411F13.A51DD2B7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7421 Meredith Wilson wrote: > My belief (even though I am married to a wonderful man 'Go for it! Why limit > your choices?!' I agree if I had found someone perfect and it happened to > be a female, so be it. It seems silly if someone is your soulmate (if you > believe in that sort of thing) then a soul really has no male or female, > just whatever sex it happens to be associated with during this life. Ok, > I'll shut up now. :) Very good point about soulmates, I agree. But I will also point out that sex does not always have to be part of an intimate relationship. Nor have I ever understood those who choose to define themselves by sexual preference--I define people by how fun they are to talk to, whether they can make cool things, how interesting they are, etc., and don't really give a rat's patoot about who they sleep with. When you cut to the chase, sex is only one small part of an honest, functioning relationship, and not the most difficult by a long shot. I think Stephanie was a bit, um, energetic in her comments, but I think she's reflecting a bit of my own thought--gay or not, what relevance does it have to the story that's being told? At this point, none. [I cannot speak for the future, as adolescent awakenings become more focused.] --Amanda From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 20 21:02:00 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:02:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius/ Sexy Mermaid References: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> <3A40E2F9.4A519DD5@earthlink.net> <003b01c06ab7$b78b6820$d968d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <003801c06ac8$192c21e0$f42e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7422 > We (Penny and I anyway) understand that...which is why ASA 12 is still very > much a work in progress. And we will wait patiently, (but not too patiently ) because it is just soooo wonderful! And Sirius with a Mermaid, that sounds interesting too. Only... how does this anathomically work out??? Dinah (who has very... interesting pics on her mind now lol) From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 21:14:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:14:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! (And Sirius/ Sexy Mermaid) References: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> <3A40E2F9.4A519DD5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A412123.786BA40B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7423 Suzanne Burns wrote: > I would add that if kids are old enough to read romances about boy meets girl, > then they are also old enough to read about girl meets girl or boy meets boy. > Kids who are dealing with their brand new and budding gay and lesbian sexuality > may in fact be LONGING to read fiction which affirms who they are. I can't think > of many ways of writing about such things in ways that would be appropriate for > very young audiences. What about kids like me, who always skipped over the "slow" parts to get to the exciting parts, what happens, who gets caught, who gets rescued and how, etc.? I had no boyfriend, but plenty of boy friends, and girl friends (in fact, the only one I have kept track of from this time is my best girl friend). I didn't date, nobody asked, I don't know if I'd have gone; I never had a curfew, I never needed one. Hormones were inconvenient things that made me have to deal with things like feminine products. They didn't send me boy-ward until college. Were I 14, I would not want the story cluttered up with romantic or sexual fluff; I'd want to know what Voldemort was going to do next, why Dumbledore's eyes gleamed, etc. I'm not anti-gay. I'm anti-distraction-for-the-sake-of-principle. If JKR chooses to make awareness of feelings a plot distraction, then that *is* relevant and just fine with me. --Amanda From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Dec 20 21:27:27 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:27:27 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius/ Sexy Mermaid In-Reply-To: <003801c06ac8$192c21e0$f42e07d5@oemcomputer> References: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> <3A40E2F9.4A519DD5@earthlink.net> <003b01c06ab7$b78b6820$d968d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001220132426.00d3f8b0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7424 At 10:02 PM 12/20/00 +0100, Dinah wrote: >And Sirius with a Mermaid, that sounds interesting too. Only... how does >this anathomically work out??? As someone who both identifies with Sirius and has a bit of a mermaid fetish, this is something I'm anxious to see too! As for anatomical problems, that's not too hard. It's simply the *man* who spreads his legs in such case. ;) -- Dave From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 21:23:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:23:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Long OT Re: Freudian/Lacanian References: <91r3ir+irbn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A412362.F347C818@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7425 Alicia/Sue Spinnet wrote: > No dissention here. I've spent the last semester overanalyzing all > of my favorite classics in sophomore English to the point where I > never want to read them, or even think about them, again. "The > Catcher in the Rye", "Huck Finn"... my teacher even found a way to > ruin "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" for me! *cries* Ahem. > Anyway. If that man even *touches* on HP, I will scream and throw my > grammar book across the room in a display of insubordination. Or > maybe not. I had an enlightened English teacher my senior year of high school (one time he gave us all a copy of a list of books they weren't supposed to teach, and had us each pick one to read and report on!) whose last assignment was that we write an essay on anything we wanted, provided it had something to do with something we'd done. I carpe diem'd and wrote "Great Expectations Unfulfilled, or Why English is as Dull as the Dickens," complaining about precisely this--that students are not free to experience the literature because the teachers are too pushy in interpreting for them, and adding way too much "out there" stuff in the bargain. I got an A-. I liked that teacher. --Amanda, English major From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 21:28:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:28:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic: Narnia References: <91pfuf+jb82@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A412483.426EFDA8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7426 Susan McGee wrote: > Edmund..he never really redeems himself... I'm really not trying to yank your chain, because I know this is not your thing, but remember that besides being a great piece of reading, this is also a great Christian allegory. Edmund doesn't *have* to redeem himself, he's the remorseful and repentant Sinner, he was redeemed by Aslan's sacrifice. On the face of it, though, I think Edmund does shine through, later on. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 21:30:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:30:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off Topic Pronunciation Amusement References: <00da01c06931$f664f7a0$b93670c2@c5s910j> <3A3E9F69.A47A6A7A@texas.net> <017601c06a8b$d6f8ec90$e9b98490@EAGLE> Message-ID: <3A4124FE.852D81E0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7427 Simon Biber wrote: > Hmm. I wouldn't pronounce it any of those. I would use three syllables, not > four, and say ED-en-bra. Which produces a most fascinating mental image involving Mr. Ed, without doubt the persistent type of mental image that can't be eradicated. Here's Mandy, 95, can't remember her name, but she has a mnemonic for the pronunciation of Edinburgh. --Amanda From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 21:38:48 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:38:48 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: help! urgent plea HP for Prez? References: Message-ID: <00c001c06acd$3d180c40$553670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7428 > ** > Quidditch match against Slytherin......they make a banner > ** > to encourage Harry, does PS have it say "Harry Potter for > ** President?" > ** > if so, President of what? > President of the class? I don't know... I've lost the origin of this thread, but I thought I'd chip in anyway: In the UK, saying "Somebody-or-other for President!" is just a turn of phrase, used supportively - as in the case in question - to imply "this person is SOOOOOO good/talented/sexy we are electing him/her to an imaginary presidential office" or ironically, as in, say, "Percy Weasley for President!" Its use in this way may have originated from the fact that the President of the USA is regarded as the world's most powerful leader and, therefore, closest to being Ruler of the Universe (including Florida). There's a frightening thought. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From nlpnt at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 21:54:48 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:54:48 -0000 Subject: Long OT Re: Freudian/Lacanian In-Reply-To: <91pdf7+9iuk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91r9r8+ipu6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7429 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > Cranking out identifications of things as Freudian > symbols is an easy enough mechanical exercise that I got Bs (if it's > longer than it's wide, it's a phallic symbol; if it's wider than it's > long, it much be a vaginal symbol). > Why am I reminded of the scene in GoF when Harry and Ron are helping each other with their Divination homework? And of being in high school, looking for Freudian symbols (Freud is fun at that age!) From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Dec 20 22:22:44 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:22:44 -0000 Subject: Welcome ( was Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue") In-Reply-To: <91pbb7+laoh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rbfl+8dk4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7430 Ebony wrote: What you've described is known as a slash pairing... Slashers are fans who advocate a relationship between two characters of the same sex in a creative work. > > Although I'm not a slash writer myself, I've found some well- written slash (mostly Sirius/Lupin and Harry/Draco) at ff.net. And while I'm a tiny bit vocal about my support for H/H, I don't think H/R slash would bother me as much as the H/R ship. As a matter of fact, it might work if a really good fanfic writer tried it. Any takers? ------------------------- *Cassandra wanders late into this discussion.* I can give you recommendations, Ebony. Or you can join the hpslash egroup, which as of the moment I believe has as many members as this one does and produces about 10 stories a day. They label all their fics by pairing so if you come across a pairing you don't like (Hagrid/Tom Riddle springs to mind) you can just skip it. Or you can email me offline and I'll mail you some decent Harry/Ron recommendations. I certainly wouldn't recommend reading most of the slash fics if you are of the opinion that everything in fanfic *must* follow the canon to T. The slash writers know perfectly well that they're creating an alternate universe, and frankly, the possibility of Harry and Ron hooking up doesn't strike me as all that much less likely than Draco turning into a sexy good guy in leather pants. I must say that at first the slash fic struck me as a bit out there, but then again, six months ago I recall saying to a friend of mine "What do you mean, post my story on the Internet? Nobody writes Harry Potter fan fiction. There's no such thing." cassie From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 22:30:35 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:30:35 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic: Narnia References: <91pfuf+jb82@eGroups.com> <3A412483.426EFDA8@texas.net> Message-ID: <00f501c06ad4$8e131480$553670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7431 > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Edmund..he never really redeems himself... Amanda said: > I'm really not trying to yank your chain, because I know this is not your > thing, but remember that besides being a great piece of reading, this is > also a great Christian allegory. Edmund doesn't *have* to redeem himself, > he's the remorseful and repentant Sinner, he was redeemed by Aslan's > sacrifice. On the face of it, though, I think Edmund does shine through, > later on. Last night, I saw the Royal Shakespeare Company's production of "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" at the Sadler's Wells Theatre in London. It wasn't a musical, more like a play with songs. It was a bit slow in the first half, but took off in the second, and the White Witch was a superb villainess, strutting around as she did in a vast un-PC white fur coat and crystal wire crown... Anyway, I was struck by the Christian allegory you mention above. I had been aware of it from reading the book, of course, but it was even more obvious in this context: the triumph of good over evil, the slaying and resurrection of Aslan, the temptation of forbidden fruits etc. - all played out before your very eyes. Edmund is redeemed somewhat by his actions in the battle, where he is attacked by the White Witch and later revived by Lucy's cordial; in other words, suggesting that people can be forgiven their ill deeds, but that they may have to suffer hurt in the process. Although the story was written from a Christian standpoint, there is a moral message in there that even a heathen like myself can appreciate. Another thing that struck me about this play was that it was very much pitched at children. There was hint of pantomime about it, and the programme included reversible pop-out masks of "The White Witch", "Aslan", "Mr Tumnus" and "A Leopard, as featured in the production", plus games and a "colour in your own Aslan" page. The audience was about 40% kids, aged 7 and above, and they seemed to love it. Personally, I thought some of the sc enes would have been really frightening for the younger ones. The deaths and fights were handled melodramatically and there was precious little light relief (unless, like me, you find the thought of Aslan in Lycra leggings extremely amusing). I did sit there imagining how one of the Harry Potter stories would lend itself well to a similar stage production - hey, how could JKR's lawyers possibly refuse the Royal Shakespeare Company? Neil... is trying on "The White Witch" for size. _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 22:44:00 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:44:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7432 >I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged to >Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases it >was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! Gilbert WAS engaged to Christine...but called it off...I think you are mixing Christine up with Josie Pie... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 10:50:50 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:50:50 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Christmas traditions elsewhere (OT) References: <006101c0697c$0f9ecb20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <015d01c069bc$5c087480$0c2e07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c06a26$fba0e120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A3F8DBC.7AC67710@texas.net> Message-ID: <006201c06b3b$e6df24c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7433 > Well, it depends. You *are* a goat; do you read them or eat them? Or have I been rolling up the pages to smoke goat weed? Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat P.S. This post should not be construed as condoning drug abuse. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 10:51:12 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:51:12 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Thermodynamics & Wizarding References: <91pf0h+r4ck@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006301c06b3b$efcff640$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7434 > Uh, do people here still subscribe to Freud's theory of penis envy? > Is this for real? I'm not sure. Feminist thinkers have suggested a complimentary "womb envy" to even things up a bit. Notably, the subjects of most transgendering operations have had said apendage removed, not implanted. And I don't think anyone has ever had a womb inplant, excepting Arnold Schwarzenegger (in Junior). So I don't see any reason to take my aside seriously. Wondering whether he's in for a bad case of hoof in mouth disease, Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat P.S. This post should not be construed as condoning penis abuse. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 10:51:46 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:51:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Welcome ( was Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue") References: <91pbb7+laoh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006401c06b3c$040acb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7435 > all of the regular posters have ... our (weird, annoying, and/or > endearing) personality quirks. Gosh, it sure is nice to be normal! I say it's about time to throw out a few wierdos around here. I'd start with non-organic beings who have evil thoughts about Dumbledore, then move in on the bunch with entirely too organic delusions about Hermione & Harry. ;-) Wondering whether the list mom'll throw *me* out for OT posting, Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat P.S. This post should not be construed as condoning list mom abuse. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 10:51:55 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:51:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) References: <91og9q+9b6k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006501c06b3c$08dbb480$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7436 > I'm reminded of what Martin Gardner wrote in his preface to the > Annotated Alice (fabulous book .... Fabulous quote, too! I'd like to track it down--could you give the title? But, although I'm not big on Freud, I think freudians--and other movements that use an author- (rather than text- or reader-) centered hermeneutic (=interpretive strategy)--have a valid point: why *did* the author happen to choose one particular palatte of words instead of some other palatte? Was it her conscious intent? (She wanted to get back at journalists, so she created Rita.) Was it coincidence? (She sees a fly on her desk and writes "flew into a rage.") Was it cultural-linguistic norms? (The hero is called Harry, rather than Hermione, because our culture sets the default gender value of young antagonists to male.) Was it a conscious but unexpressed drive? (She thinks fortune tellers are humbugs, so she makes Trelawney a nutcase.) Was it an unsconscious desire, drive or deficit? (She's troubled by her id, or "inner Harry"; hence she hooks up Hermione--her literary personification--with the safe Ron, yet leaves a certain ambiguity about Hermione's feelings.) I'm not taking a stand for or against any of the examples above. (Well, except for Rita Skeeter, which Jo denies.) But all four approaches can be valid, if employed with a pinch of salt. We write the way we write because of the kind of people we are and the kind of circumstances we write under. Assuming psychoanalysis can tell us something about who we are (which is admittedly debatable, especially when applied to people we don't even know outside of their books), it has a place in lit. crit. BTW, Ebony, I loved your post! I've nothing but breathless admiration for a human being who has read Lacan and lived to tell about it. I'd rather read a PGP encryptation of the phone book. Heck, I'd even rather read James Joyce. And I think your theory is fascinating, too, even though I don't blow with the winds of H/H shipping--but it's bedtime for sleepy goats. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat P.S. This post should not be construed as condoning anything profitable or sane. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 22:53:46 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:53:46 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: hpslash References: <91rbfl+8dk4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011a01c06ad7$cc8bc9c0$553670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7437 Ebony said: > while I'm a tiny bit vocal about my support for H/H, I don't think > H/R slash would bother me as much as the H/R ship. As a matter of > fact, it might work if a really good fanfic writer tried it. Any > takers? > ------------------------- > *Cassandra wanders late into this discussion.* I can give you > recommendations, Ebony. Or you can join the hpslash egroup, which as > of the moment I believe has as many members as this one does and > produces about 10 stories a day. _________ I've just joined hpslash, not that I have a stunning slash fic hiding up my sleeve (or any sort of fanfic), but because, as a reader, it seems a better option than wading though all the stuff on ff.net. It has 410 members but I can't tell if anyone from here is a member there too because the member list is hidden . The posting rate is pretty heavy and membership requires moderator approval. As yet, I have no idea what goes on there and I'll be lurking for a while, but if there are any *good* stories I'll let you know :-) Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 20 23:00:30 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:00:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) References: <91og9q+9b6k@eGroups.com> <006501c06b3c$08dbb480$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A413A0D.3088D2AD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7438 Aberforth's Goat denied condoning various things. Aberforth, enough already! I keep laughing out loud and making my 5-year-old wander over and ask why...[said 5-year-old who staunchly refuses to stay in her room and is getting in my hair and should be tied to a tree...] --Amanda P.S. This post should not be construed as condoning any sort of abuse to any child but mine. From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 23:06:21 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:06:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Welcome ( was Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" &"Mary Sue") References: <91pbb7+laoh@eGroups.com> <006401c06b3c$040acb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A413B6D.12E61EAC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7439 Hi -- Aberforth's Goat wrote: > I say it's about time to throw out a few wierdos around here. I'd > start with non-organic beings who have evil thoughts about Dumbledore, > then move in on the bunch with entirely too organic delusions about > Hermione & Harry. ;-) Oh dear, I think I might be thrown out on not one but 2 grounds of weirdo-ness under Mike's definition since (a) I sided with Neil in the great Dumbledore debate, and (b) you'll be hard-pressed to find a more devoted H/H shipper than me. > Wondering whether the list mom'll throw *me* out for OT posting, Uh, no .... long as I'm still the list-mom & now thrown out on the above grounds of weirdo-ness. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 20 23:13:38 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:13:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More About That Kiss... References: <91r02m+r5pg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A413D22.74342C53@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7440 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > "She's either testing the waters, playing games... or a > touchy-feely person. If she's always hugging on people (here I > asked "typically physically affectionate? Very outgoing?" they > said yes), then no, it doesn't mean anything. But if not... it means > something. Even if she doesn't have a big crush on him, the > thought of crush potential *has* entered her mind. She wants to > see his reaction for whatever reason." Your 14 yr old students said it better than I did! I think we know enough by now to know that Hermione isn't portrayed as an overly demonstrative person (or outgoing really -- outspoken, yes, but outgoing, I'd say no). > My kids are light-years away from the Hogwarts kids in relationship > sophistication. You'd think that the kiss as I read it just > now > would mean nothing to them... so of course it'd mean nothing to > a fictional 14 year old growing up in a very old-fashioned milieu. That's what makes their responses so interesting, don't you think? > I don't know if this is common, but I know when I told my man > that I loved him in 1998 I was *terrified*--I was so afraid that I'd > lose the best male friend I ever had. Been there; done that. > I don't think it's possible to understand the above without > experiencing it, not really. That's why PoU was such a hit with > those of us who are married to or in a relationship with their best > friend. Who knows--if someone had written a R/H story on the > same level, with the same depth of characterization, I might be > arguing for the opposite side of things. (Yeah, right.) Nah! You've been converted! :--) > OK--I went all over the place with this one. But the bottom line is > that we've learned not to take anything in a JKR book for granted. > It's on the last page for something. Either it's a red herring plot > device (throw those crazy H/H folks I've been hearing about a > bone), or it's something more. > > Or maybe I'm teaching at a school full of relics from the 1800s in > their worldviews. :) I'm with your students on this one again (surprise -- I agree with their Farmer in the Dell theory too). The kiss was not insignificant or impulsive behavior on Hermione's part (IMO). Wondering if Jim is sorry he ever raised this topic ..... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Dec 20 23:20:54 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:20:54 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: hpslash Message-ID: <20001220232054.28363.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7441 --- Neil Ward skrev: [snip] > I've just joined hpslash, not that I have a stunning slash fic hiding > up my > sleeve (or any sort of fanfic), but because, as a reader, it seems a > better > option than wading though all the stuff on ff.net. It has 410 > members but I > can't tell if anyone from here is a member there too because the > member list > is hidden . [snip] Which should make us 3 men and 407 women over there... ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From marty at martynet.org Wed Dec 20 23:22:00 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:22:00 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <3A40225D.CAF126D4@swbell.net>; from pennylin@swbell.net on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:07:09PM -0600 References: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net> <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> <3A40225D.CAF126D4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20001220152200.C22006@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7442 > We've talked alot about this. You might search the archives for posts > around end of Sept & beginning of Oct (I know because I was out of town > then & came home to a full inbox about the abusive Dursleys & what it > might all mean, etc.). At base, my belief is that the Dursleys serve a > fairy tale archetype and that JKR isn't really trying to address the > abused child issue too much. But, read the past posts if you want to > really know what all was discussed before. OK. I see what you mean, but I also wonder whether, nonetheless, that was a very responsible choice. But then, I also wonder whether making responsible choices kills art, so I'm not totally worried about this or anything. Like all media, when it comes down to it, it's probably the job of a parent to address this kind of question, anyway. > Carole already filled you in on the slash genre. Right. I'd probably have known that if I'd thought about it for a minute; slash is certainly a long-standing tradition in fanfic of all kinds, I know. Marty From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 23:20:49 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:20:49 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Weirdo #1 References: <91pbb7+laoh@eGroups.com> <006401c06b3c$040acb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <014d01c06adb$7dec63c0$553670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7443 > I say it's about time to throw out a few wierdos around here. I'd start with > non-organic beings who have evil thoughts about Dumbledore... "Pull up to the bumper Baby, and I'll give your beard a tug." _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 20 22:36:07 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:36:07 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Wand order correction...(UK) References: <91qt8l+4oej@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01d501c06adb$d7c703a0$75c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7444 Neil, what was the edition number? And on which page is this? I have so many cards to write/presents to wrap, I just can't manage to look through my book...Why can I sit by the computer? I have this Yule work to do! catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Flying Ford Anglia Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 20 december 2000 19:20 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Wand order correction...(UK) Penny was asking recently about the infamous 'wand order correction' (WOC - I think it deserves an acronym) in the UK version of "Goblet of Fire": I managed to find some '?3 off' issues with the correction and, as far as I could tell, the rewording was exactly as we've seen already. There were some purple 'special' editions on the next shelf with the original wording intact. I haven't seen any coverage of this in the press. I guess both publishers tried to shuffle the correction out under a cloak of invisibility. Fat chance of that with people like us scrutinising their every move... I'm forced to conclude that JKR approved this correction. It seems to me very unlikely that Bloomsbury and Scholastic would be able to agree the same rewording without the author's involvement. I think we were right to have concerns about the effects on JKR's writing of GoF being rushed to meet the deadline. I think we should bear that in mind if the next book takes a while longer than we'd like to appear. No stamping of feet and screaming - agreed? Neil eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 20 22:37:35 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:37:35 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry...toned down References: Message-ID: <01d601c06adb$daf44ec0$75c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7445 I second your point about fanfiction. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Stephanie Becvar Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 20 december 2000 19:17 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry...toned down About my most recent post, I must say it was a bit more vehmnent that i had intended Most of what i wanted to say just didnt come out right...probably as I was writing it at about 3:00 am ;) I wanted to clear up some things.....Because i did rather make an idiot out of myself, and am feeling rather moronic. A) Angry was far from being the right word to use....I would say it was frustrating, bc I take all of my analysis based on factual happenings in the books. B) I did not mean these are "Only" children's books...nor that they were necessarily intended for children, BUT kids are a large part of the audience. I mean, Imagine my horror when my little 9 year old sister who reads these books ran to get me from my room over the summer while i was at my dads to show me a fan fic she had found about Hermione getting prgnant at the ownderful age of 16 with Harry as the Father. C) that leads well into my next point, I dont have a problem with fan fic esp as i understand it as a wonderful creative outlet to fill in the time gap between release and i have done some for my own amusement, but for me i can not enjoy it unless i feel it fits with the flow of the stories, or could feasibly happen, but that is just me and i want to say sorry if i angered anyone who does do slash writings. Again, I am sorry for the er.....vehmnence of that post. I dont know what came over me I am normally a very open minded person on these things and keep opinions on such topics to myself, mainly bc i find i am one of the few WITH these opinions. So sorry in case i offened anyone, and if not, i look at this email to hopefully rectify me and not bring me back into idiotdom. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 23:23:52 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:23:52 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Weirdo #1 + References: <91pbb7+laoh@eGroups.com> <006401c06b3c$040acb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <014d01c06adb$7dec63c0$553670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <015801c06adb$eacf2540$553670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7446 Ahem. That was in response to Aberforth's goat... in case anyone was confused (and why would you be?) > > I say it's about time to throw out a few wierdos around here. I'd start > with > > non-organic beings who have evil thoughts about Dumbledore... > > "Pull up to the bumper Baby, and I'll give your beard a tug." > _____________________________________ > > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing > mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost > as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his > four-poster." > > [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Dec 20 23:28:52 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:28:52 -0000 Subject: More About That Kiss... In-Reply-To: <3A413D22.74342C53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91rfbk+8ng5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7447 Not sorry at all, Penny. I wanted to hear thoughts from all sides. I loved the input from Ebony's kids! As I remember, age 14/15 was a very intense time. I relate to Ron, though. If he had a real crush on Hermione and saw her kiss Harry -- he might take a sharp turn toward the Dark Side. This has been a whole lot more interesting than the other post that I was thinking about -- British vs. American usage of collective nouns. > > Wondering if Jim is sorry he ever raised this topic ..... > > Penny From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Dec 20 23:29:41 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:29:41 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand order correction...(UK) References: <91qt8l+4oej@eGroups.com> <01d501c06adb$d7c703a0$75c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <016301c06adc$bacb2a00$553670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7448 Sara said: Neil, what was the edition number? And on which page is this? I have so many cards to write/presents to wrap, I just can't manage to look through my book...Why can I sit by the computer? I have this Yule work to do! catrina It's on p579. I didn't have a chance to look at the edition though. The shop assistant was eyeing me curiously enough as I opened ten copies of the same book and read the same identical page in each one. They just don't understand us. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Dec 20 23:32:36 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:32:36 -0000 Subject: hpslash In-Reply-To: <20001220232054.28363.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91rfik+r9ab@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7449 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > --- Neil Ward skrev: > [snip] > > I've just joined hpslash, not that I have a stunning slash fic hiding > > up my > > sleeve (or any sort of fanfic), but because, as a reader, it seems a > > better > > option than wading though all the stuff on ff.net. It has 410 > > members but I > > can't tell if anyone from here is a member there too because the > > member list > > is hidden . > [snip] > > Which should make us 3 men and 407 women over there... > > ===== Actually there are 6 men on the group, that I know of. And 403 women. ;) cassie From marty at martynet.org Wed Dec 20 23:34:06 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:34:06 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <91pfcd+g4pj@eGroups.com>; from catlady@wicca.net on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:17:01AM -0000 References: <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> <91pfcd+g4pj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20001220153406.D22006@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7450 > There is some 'old magic' that keeps Harry safe only when in the > 'care' of his relatives. It has been hinted at but not explained in > the text so far. And HP has to go to the Dursley at the beginning of > vacation, but then can go on to the Weasleys: is there something in > the 'old magic' that continues to keep him safe for some time after > he leaves the Dursleys, but he has to go back to them periodically > to refresh it? Well, this is an interesting take on it, and one that makes some sense to me....although they never explain it to Harry, really, which would make it easier for him to bear, I would think. I suppose he does know that he's protected, so I guess he could put two and two together... > > What do you call someone who would be interested in seeing an > > adolescent fling between Harry and Ron? > > Ha/R. It gets complicated when characters have the same initials > and you have to distinguish Ha/R from He/R (which in turn is a > little ironic: He is the girl), and specify Sn or Si for Snape or > Sirius, Du or Dr Dumbledore or Draco. This is actually more what I meant when I asked the question. :-> > Before GoF came out, I would read the Ha/He shippers and the R/He > shippers and the Ha/G[inny] shippers and the Ha/Cho shippers, and > then reply that I thought Harry and Ron would suit each other best, > with their shared interests and Harry being able to keep his mouth > shut at times when anything anyone says sets Ron off (and sometimes > I would add that if only Ginny transferred her hero worship from > Harry The Boy Who Lived to Hermione The Genius Scholar, they could > suit each other's personalities quite well). Hmmmm..... > But I have to admit that GoF kind of knocked a hole in that for me. > First, while Harry could still grow up to be gay or bi, as he still > seems to be trying not to have a sexual orientation at all (as part > of a desire to avoid intimacy -- and it should be easy to figure out > where he learned to distruct intimacy!), but Ron has been acting > quite thoroughly heterosexual lately, leering down girls' necklines > and stuff. Also, Harry hasn't been doing such a good job of coddling > Ron's temper lately. Wellll.....first of all, I think there's a difference in growing up to be gay or bi, and doing some adolescent exploration. I think a lot of people do some of that (and many others don't), and I don't think it has much bearing on where one eventually ends up on the spectrum. Second, acting heterosexual is no indication. Lots of people who aren't sure where they stand will try hard to emphasize where they want to be, to convince themselves if nothing else. I know lots of queer men and women (of various stripes) who tried to "get over it" for years by acting hyper-het. Given Ron's general insecurity, though, it would be difficult to decide if he's just being an adolescent boy, worried about a perceived deficit of general masculinity, or dealing with uncomfortable sexual feelings. > I regularly use the "thing he'd miss most" to argue that Viktor's > feelings for Hermione are at least sincere. He may be an 18 year old > trying to date a 14 or 15 year old, but she wouldn't have been his > hostage if he were just a 'playa' (as someone said back in Yahoo! > days). He either is real messed up, or he was able to appreciate > Hermione's excellences despite youth, big teeth (not shrunk yet when > he began chasing her), and a bossy sort of voice. I prefer to > believe the latter, which speaks exceptionally well of him, and at > this time, I would like to match Hermione with Viktor. I suppose > he'll either die or be revealed as a Darksider in the next volume, > sigh. I agree with you, I liked the pairing (although I'm not sure I vote for it as a long-term thing). I think Viktor was attracted to Hermione because she showed herself to be a person of substance and was not chasing him. Viktor seems to me to be a very lonely person; it's a shame he and Harry didn't have time to talk more, because I think they'd have something to share about what it's like to be pursued and idolized because you're famous rather than for yourself (although it doesn't seem like a lot of girls are going after Harry for this reason, at least not yet). Also, I think Viktor recognized in Hermione some of his own self-discipline and the urge to strive for excellence, albeit in different spheres. Marty From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Dec 20 23:37:23 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:37:23 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91r3ud+rsee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007301c06add$d5bfb000$9c1c063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7451 Can I throw in my English twopenn'orth ? Hermione is an extremely English,shy, bookish girl making her first foray into the whole boy/girl thing. Add to this, that she is aware of her friend's very serious danger. She can't say too much because there are loads of people around who she knows. But she can't just shake his hand either. So a peck on the cheek is all she can do. Really English people don't hug. Perhaps there's more to come, but I don't think quite yet. Oh and as for Ron's jealousy, ( a long time since it was discussed I know ) someone compared Ron and Hermoine's maturity. But what strikes me as far as the jealousy goes is that Ron has a hell of a lot more to deal with than Hermione. This is because Hermione can view Harry Potter ( the renowned hero ) as a concept. Harry her friend is something different. She grew up in the Muggle world just as Harry did. Ron has had to grow up hiw whole life being very aware of Harry as a kind of saviour ( he unwittingly defeated someone who was threteaning his whole community's existance ) and then has to deal with being Harry's closest friend and experiencing at close quarters what Harry has to deal with - the good and the bad. Jealousy has little to do with maturity. It just is there whether he likes it or not. I like Ron loads. In fact, I like all the Weasleys. But I can see why Ron has grown to resent Harry. Michelle From zsenya at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 23:46:34 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:46:34 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91rgcq+rvm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7452 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > >I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged to > >Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases it > >was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! > > Gilbert WAS engaged to Christine...but called it off...I think you are > mixing Christine up with Josie Pie... > __________________________________________ You are mistaking the books with the television series I think. In the television series, Gilbert was engaged to Christine. The Sullivan Production took a lot of liberties. In the books, Gilbert was true to Anne throughout. He hung around with Christine at college after Anne refused his first proposal, but they were just friends. Christine was actually engaged to someone else. Anne was running around with Roy Gardner, who never made an appearance in the TV version. _______________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From zsenya at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 23:47:40 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:47:40 -0000 Subject: The Kiss - a mistake? Message-ID: <91rges+69pj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7453 Perhaps JK Rowling meant to write that Hermione kissed Ron instead - it may show up in corrected 314th printings of Goblet of Fire... From zsenya at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 23:50:31 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:50:31 -0000 Subject: Support for He/R In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91rgk7+560t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7454 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "~ Leyo ~" wrote: > A tidbit of support for He/R shippers: > > When asked "was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last > half of Goblet of Fire?" in the Yahoo/Barnes&Noble chat, she responded "Yes, > something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy.", which > suggests Hermione might have feelings for Ron, even though he's being a bit > ... blunt. > THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I will have that to hold on to as I wait for Book V. :) From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Dec 20 23:54:06 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:54:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDDF@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7455 > You are mistaking the books with the television > series I think. In the television series, > Gilbert was engaged to Christine. The Sullivan > Production took a lot of liberties. In the > books, Gilbert was true to Anne throughout. He > hung around with Christine at college after > Anne refused his first proposal, but they were just friends. > Christine was actually engaged to someone else. Anne was running > around with Roy Gardner, who never made an appearance in the TV > version. > > Ah, you beat me to the reply. :-) Were any of the Anne fans able to watch the whole "Anne, the Continuing Series" from Sullivan Productions? I only watched Part One, and it was such a deviation from the books that I couldn't watch Part Two. That wasn't my beloved Anne, it was Anne of Generation X. I live 4 hours away from PEI so I've been on the Anne exodus a few times to pay homage. And I will be going again next summer! Angela From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Dec 20 23:55:50 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:55:50 -0000 Subject: The Kiss - a mistake? In-Reply-To: <91rges+69pj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rgu6+6ch8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7456 LOL. Or maybe in the 314.25th printing. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, zsenya at y... wrote: > Perhaps JK Rowling meant to write that Hermione kissed Ron instead - > it may show up in corrected 314th printings of Goblet of Fire... From wren at thejunkbox.com Wed Dec 20 23:55:32 2000 From: wren at thejunkbox.com (wren lanier) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:55:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys In-Reply-To: <01C06931.0E15D640.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7457 i'm 200 odd messages behind, so forgive me, but if things can't be conjured out of thin air, how does Ollivander conjure a fountain of wine from harry's wand in GoF? (i don't really believe things can be conjured from nothing, b/c like you said -- the weasley's wouldn't be poor. i'm just wondering how Ollivander did that, since he apparently didn't Transfigure anything). wren -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, catlady wrote In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: "> Um, not to spoil the mood, but have the Weasleys gotten a bit more > financially solvent? How can they afford such a sumptious spread as > you plan? Are the wizard folk able to magic up raw ingredients? " I don't think that they are - otherwise the Wesley's wouldn't be poor (it is hard to imagine they would choose it if they had a choice). And the fact that they have a money exchange based system suggests that things can't just be 'conjured out of thin air'. Which works quiet nicely with the (very) little physics that I know - energy must come from energy (or matter from matter or what ever) Like white sauce dribbling out of the wand (which always seems Freudian to me). I never noticed before. "If Fred and George's joke shop is a big success, the family could be rolling in money." With their potter seeding grant I'm sure that is only a short way in the future. storm -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:17 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com eGroups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 21 00:14:40 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:14:40 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: <96.dc13406.2772a570@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7458 THANK YOU! I was begining to think that I was the only person here that loves Ron and I truly thought I was the only R/H shipper. Here's my two knuts.... In a message dated 12/20/00 6:17:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, zsenya at yahoo.com writes: > I think Ron is a wonderful character in that he is very *normal.* > People talk about getting funny feelings about Ron, that there is > something unsettling about him - I have NEVER had an unsettling thought about Ron. He would be the first one to stand up to defend his friends (as he has done already) and also the last standing. He's stubborn and loyal. A great combination in a friend IMHO. Especially when your battling evil. > but I find those complaints make him more human. I have a > wonderful family life and at 14 I really wished I didn't so that I > could fit in better with my punk rock friends. The grass is always greener....especially when your an adolescent. (An adolescent who has to wear raggedy clothes that are too small and maroon!) I wished my family was like my other friends' because they could stay out as late as they wanted or they didn't have 3 younger sisters. No 14 year old knows how good they have it and materials things are A HUGE part of a teenager's life. Most adults I know put way too much value on material possessions and they have had a lot more time to figure things out than young Ron. He is definitely starting to learn that there are things (like friendship) that are worth more than galleons. > look at the way he sacrificed himself on the chess board, look at how he > went down into the Chamber of Secrets to find his sister, look at how he > stood up to Harry in front of Sirius Black. True, GoF dealt with situations > in which Ron could not really play a heroic part, but if he had been able > to help, he would have. And he will. I am sure of it. And if he betrays > Harry in any way, well, then, my heart will be broken, and I will just have > to write my own Harry Potter books and forget about JK Rowling. So There. Absolutely he would have! Ron is a true and loyal friend. Harry has never had one of those before. Come to think of it, Harry hasn't had ANY friends before. You already listed the instances but it comes down to this - without Ron (Hermione too, but this is about Ron), Harry would not have been able to save the world from Voldemort so many times. And if you have to start writing your own books-which you won't because JKR wouldn't dare- I'll be there reading them. > Oh! And I was a big fan of Edmund in Lion, the Witch, and the > Wardrobe. Me too! Re: the kiss - I don't think it meant anything. If ANYTHING, it > proves that Hermione likes Ron (hehe) - if you like someone you are > probably completely afraid to have any physical contact with them at > all, whereas if you just consider someone a friend, a little peck on > the cheek is a nice gesture of friendship. Poor girl probably > trembles with emotion every time Ron is near - he's so tall and > red-headed. Again I concur. It meant, "I am soo glad my friend is alive!" I also said before that I think that Hermione is getting a bit 'moody' in her adolescence. Hormonal surges and high emotions can cause you to do things. You know, I would have never kissed the boy I really liked either - great point! > I just felt I had to speak up in defense of Ron. Poor guy! My friend and I are > actually working on a project now, which we plan to "debut" after New > Year's which is a website devoted to fanfiction writing and our dear > friend Ron. I will post an official announcement when it is all done. > Thank you for expressing my feelings for me. I am so glad I'm not alone. : ) I'm looking forward to your website and fanfics. An avid Ron-supporter, -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 20 23:45:09 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:45:09 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs References: <01C06ACE.DB002180.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <3A409CDE.63103C4F@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <02ed01c06ae4$7aafc040$75c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7459 I think it's stored memories that make the pictures move. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: heidi Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 20 december 2000 12:49 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > I've been wondering this for some time - about the Wizard pictures - what > happens when someone dies? Does their image stop moving? What is it that moves? No, it doesn't stop - harry specificially notes that his parents are waving to him from the photos in the album hagrid makes for him. > > - Gilroy Lockart's photographic image appeared to share his vanity, What else > might they share? How is they linked? Are you spread to thin if you have > multiple copies of the same picture made - what effect would it have on you? > Would your image become sluggish (the more their were) interesting pondering! > Some Aboriginal communities believed that photographs 'stole' the soul and > either photos are forbidden or strongly regulated in those communities. What > kind of laws (if any) would the wizarding community have around photo's. Can > you imagine trying to grieve for someone who had recently died only to see > their image moving around and acting like them? - very weird! Or very sweet, if that's what you're used to - it's a good, poignant reminder of how they were whent hey were alive - the same as watching videos -and in the muggle world, we're going to have something like this within the next year - picture frames that play digital video clips - so you can have people waving from your living room end tables. > And is it only photo's that move - surely some of the people mentioned on the > collecting cards must have died before the invention of the camera (and its > subsequent adoption by the Wizard/Witch world). Same sort of process? I think it's the same thing that animates the painted pictures, like Sir Cadogon & the Fat Lady in the castle. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 21 00:39:14 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:39:14 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Wand order correction...(UK) References: <91qt8l+4oej@eGroups.com> <01d501c06adb$d7c703a0$75c116c2@pnxpg> <016301c06adc$bacb2a00$553670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <032e01c06ae8$2fe57e20$75c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7460 Thanks ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Neil Ward Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 21 december 2000 00:29 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Wand order correction...(UK) Sara said: Neil, what was the edition number? And on which page is this? I have so many cards to write/presents to wrap, I just can't manage to look through my book...Why can I sit by the computer? I have this Yule work to do! catrina It's on p579. I didn't have a chance to look at the edition though. The shop assistant was eyeing me curiously enough as I opened ten copies of the same book and read the same identical page in each one. They just don't understand us. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 21 01:24:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:24:43 -0000 Subject: not always men In-Reply-To: <91peho+2a2m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rm4r+e65g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7461 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Hey, can we remember that the dustmen, garbagemen, mailmen, etc. > are not always men? > We shall make ourselves a "men"tal note of same. - CMC (collector of garbage) From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Dec 21 01:31:05 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:31:05 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDE1@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7462 > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathan [SMTP:duo at dangerous-minds.com] > > > Perhaps it's a snapshot of the emotional state of mind of the subject at > the > time. I don't think the 'spread thin' effect occurs, otherwise think of > what > happens to the people on the Chocolate Frog cards and in the Daily > Prophet. > > Nathan > I think that's the right track. Because I was thinking that when Harry was looking at Sirius' photos in PoA, Sirius would have been trying to establish contact when Harry looked at the photos, to say "Hey, I'm your godfather and I really want to look after you", instead of glowering. Angela From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Dec 21 01:33:05 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:33:05 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Potions Class, Day One (filk) Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDE2@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7463 I love this song! Both "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean" and the filk song. Angela > -----Original Message----- > From: Caius Marcius [SMTP:coriolan at worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 11:00 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Potions Class, Day One (filk) > > Potions Class, Day One > > (to the tune My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean) > > (The Scene: The former dungeon which now serves as the Potions > Classroom. Enter SEVERUS SNAPE, to a class comprised of nervous first- > year students) > > SNAPE > The class that I teach is called Potions > For a grade that is higher than "C" > You must study each day with devotion > And do nothing annoying to me > > Mix up, cut up, slice up those potions for me, for me > Stir up, cook up, whip up those potions for me > > Just a few things which are quite annoying: > Those who doze off in class and then snore, > Those who my equipment are destroying > And anyone from Gryffindor > > CHORUS OF GRYFFINDOR STUDENTS > Mix up, cut up, slice up those potions for Snape, for Snape > Stir up, cook up, but don't get him bent out of shape > > NEVILLE > He couldn't be any more scary > If he had huge fangs and a cape > The cabinet of Dr. Caligari > Would be better than Severus Snape > > CHORUS OF GRYFFINDOR STUDENTS > Drop out, drop out, we would if we could but we can't, we can't! > Bomb out, bomb out, our GPA's gonna be scant! > > - CMC > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Dec 21 01:35:06 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:35:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDE3@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7464 Okay, but what is a shipper? Or, why shipper? Angela From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 21 01:39:10 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:39:10 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91mu5s+au9i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rmvu+bdb2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7465 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > WARNING: This is extremely long. > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > > The biggest problem I have is that JKR has no authorized biographical > material out there in book form. The interviews from Publisher's > Weekly, Time, etc. were accused by one of my colleagues as > being "carefully constructed fabrications straight from Joanne > Rowling's publicist." There's no way to do this type of > analysis > with credibility unless your sources are watertight. > > You see, it's easy enough to do a Lacanian analysis of a > fantastic > work like say, Frankenstein... but then, Mary Shelley's been dead > for > quite some time now and we know plenty about her. JKR is still > living and values her privacy. I respect that... but this type of > reading requires that you know some "dirt"... at least the > tinest > speck. Remember, you must fish around in the author's id > according > to Freud and Lacan to make sense of anything they write. I'd have to disagree with that, although what you are saying is a pretty common distortion of Freud. I think what a musician once said about Mozart ? that he's too easy for beginners, and too difficult for virtuosi ? applies equally well to Freud. It's easy ? even for people who've never read a page of actual Freud ? to pick up a few general ideas about his theories, and then apply ? or misapply ? their simplistic understanding of them As Hans Zinnser wrote, "Freud is a great man. But it is dangerous when a great man is too easily half-understood. Freud's high explosives have been reworked into firecrackers for the simple to burn their fingers. It is easy to make a noise and a bad smell with materials compounded by the great discoverer for the blasting of tunnels." Chances are, the Freud you think you know is an imposter, a community college professor, or talk- host wannabe on Polyjuice. (I've read several of the responses to this thread, and I think they're all directed at the Polyjuice Freud as well) Ebony, you mention reading Interpretation of Dreams: You may remember in "Dreams" (Section 5b) that Freud did a rather extensive analysis of both Sophocles' Oedipus The King and Shakespeare's Hamlet , despite the fact that we know virtually nothing about the former author, and frustratingly little of the latter (Freud later in life subscribed to the crackpot theory that Shakespeare's plays were actually written by the Earl of Oxford: despite this, he never altered the Hamlet section of Dreams, although he did extensively revise the book in a couple of later reprintings) Rather than "decide" how Freud might have interpreted a particular work based on a half-baked understanding of some of his theories, why not start by looking at Freud's actual literary criticism? Freud uses his theories in his essays, but he is not bound by them: some of his most penetrating insights have nothing to do directly at least with his theoretical models. He even admits that psychoanalysis cannot penetrate art's ultimate mystery: "Before the problem of the creative artist analysis must, alas, lay down its arms." (Dostoevsky and Parricide"). His 1915 essay "Some Character-Types Met With in Psychoanalytic Work, " is one of his best: he offers a brilliant analyses of Shakespeare's Richard III and Macbeth, without any of the glib superficial interpretations that our friend the Polyjuice Freud is always "supposed" to be finding (e.g., he does not interpret the hallucinatory dagger as a "phallic symbol"). Again, his analysis devotes nothing to Shakespeare the man, but is full of admiration for Shakespeare the artist: His 1913 essay , "The Theme of the Three Caskets? also rooted in Shakespeare (this time, King Lear and The Merchant of Venice) ? ranges far and wide over world mythology with a breadth that would put most contemporary "multiculturalists" to shame, and reminds us that Freud, like Jung, was also a believer in the "collective unconscious." Again, all this is without recourse to "fishing up dirt" on the individual artist. (BTW, if anyone is interested, I have e-texts of these two essays, which I'll gladly pass along to anyone who wants to request them - e-mail me directly). Freud has more to say about the artist an individual in his stunning The Moses of Michelangelo (1914) or his 1928 essay Dostoevsky and Parricide (Parricide is of course a theme for which JKR provides abundant material). However, the central focus remains on the work, and Freud does not endorse a "deficiency" model of artistic creation (i.e., the idea that a work of art merely reflects the assorted neuroses and frustrations of its creator). Freud did lapse at times: his 1909 essay on Leonardo dwells at length upon a childhood trauma that L da V suffered when he was attacked by a bird of prey: Freud makes this the fons et origo of Leonardo's art. This regrettable reductionism is the exception in Freud, but is alas the rule for the Freudians. I suspect what Freud would find most fascinating in JKR ? and rest assured he would read Harry Potter (his English was impeccable, he was an ardent Anglophile, and read everything from Shakespeare to Macaulay to Kipling to Agatha Christie, in the original) would be the familial relationships: Harry's yearning for his dead parents, who were murdered by Voldemort - his arch-enemy, and yet somehow his twin . "There are strange likenesses between us, after all. Even you must have noticed. Both half-bloods, orphans, raised by Muggles. Probably the only two Parselmouths to come to Hogwarts since the great Slytherin himself. We even look something alike ." But Freud would have attributed the power of these Oedipal overtones to their embedding in our collective unconscious, not to anything specific about JKR the individual. I think Freud would have also been fascinated by the manner in which HP originated ? JKR's epiphany of seeing the train-bound Harry on his way to Hogwarts. He would have correctly noted that the strength and power of the HP narrative stems from the fact that it is coming from a place deeply rooted in our collective psyches. I could go on at inordinate length on this topic, but hopefully you get my drift. Just one final thing: I do have a major problem with Lacan (and Derrida, too) who you mention with admiration (I'm not deeply acquinated with either of them,but from what I know, my subjective reaction to them is like Winky to Ludo Bagman "Very bad wizards!") Lacan is a highly subjective interpreter of Freud's legacy, and many Freudians, and friends of Freud ? myself included - would strenuously reject his interpretations. Lacan, typically of the French intelligentsia of his day, is overly enamored of the discredited Marxist ideologies, whose Utopian fantasies Freud found completely alien to the austere and stoic spirit of psychoanalysis: Nevertheless, Lacan devoted considerable energy to papering over their differences, failing to do justice to either thinker in the end. - CMC From nlpnt at yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 01:45:55 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:45:55 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner with Weasleys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91rncj+6rr6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7466 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, wren lanier wrote: > i'm 200 odd messages behind, so forgive me, but if things can't be conjured > out of thin air, how does Ollivander conjure a fountain of wine from harry's > wand in GoF? (i don't really believe things can be conjured from nothing, > b/c like you said -- the weasley's wouldn't be poor. i'm just wondering how > Ollivander did that, since he apparently didn't Transfigure anything). > > wren No problem; keeping up with this list can look almost like work sometimes (wish I had a job like that, tho') Have a look at the "Thermodynamics and Wizarding" posts -and get ready to laugh at the possibilities of conjured food :) From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 21 01:54:33 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:54:33 -0000 Subject: Expecto Patronum! (filk) In-Reply-To: <9e.db1f322.2770e5e9@aol.com> Message-ID: <91rnsp+u070@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7467 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, EvenCirce713 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/17/00 5:59:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > All I want to know is- HOW are you consistently geting better and beter at > these. Each time I think they can't get better, and then they do. I'm glad you enjoy them - I found out a couple of years ago I have a knack for this sort of thing (kind of like discovering you can speak Parselmouth). I've written songs for my office, and for a few other newsgroups, but HP has definitely inspired me to unprecedented levels of productivity. - CMC Are these > posted, compiles anyplace. As Steve Vander Ark noted, he will be posting the complete collection soon on his site. Amanda also mentioned getting her brother to perform them, and that would also be great. So far, the only performer I've heard is myself in the shower. - CMC From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Dec 21 02:31:35 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:31:35 -0800 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Wand order correction...(UK) In-Reply-To: <032e01c06ae8$2fe57e20$75c116c2@pnxpg> References: <91qt8l+4oej@eGroups.com> <01d501c06adb$d7c703a0$75c116c2@pnxpg> <016301c06adc$bacb2a00$553670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001220182857.00d59d30@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7468 At 01:39 AM 12/21/00 +0100, Sara Ludwig wrote: >It's on p579. I didn't have a chance to look at the edition though. The > shop assistant was eyeing me curiously enough as I opened ten copies of the > same book and read the same identical page in each one. They just don't > understand us. I have yet to see an edition of GoF that corrects ANY of its boo-boos (including, "Unless [we] do not stand united, there is no hope for us"), let alone the wand order one. Has anyone made a list of the GoF errors? -- Dave From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 02:32:41 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:32:41 -0000 Subject: Long OT Re: Freudian/Lacanian In-Reply-To: <3A412362.F347C818@texas.net> Message-ID: <91rq49+h24m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7469 Hi Amanda and all-- > I had an enlightened English teacher my senior year of high school (one time > he gave us all a copy of a list of books they weren't supposed to teach, and > had us each pick one to read and report on!) whose last assignment was that > we write an essay on anything we wanted, provided it had something to do > with something we'd done. I carpe diem'd and wrote "Great Expectations > Unfulfilled, or Why English is as Dull as the Dickens," complaining about > precisely this--that students are not free to experience the literature > because the teachers are too pushy in interpreting for them, and adding way > too much "out there" stuff in the bargain. I got an A-. I liked that > teacher. Is that teacher still living? Sounds like a role model I'd like to have. Unfortunately, I did like Dickens in a way. Hated the more dense passages of his prose, but absolutely loved his characters. --Ebony (who, again, only dusts off the lit theory when it serves her purposes... you can tell my level of dedication to H/H due to my suffering through Lacan, Rank et al. for weeks.) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 02:44:30 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:44:30 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91rqqe+ub4v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7470 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > >I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged to > >Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases it > >was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! > > Gilbert WAS engaged to Christine...but called it off...I think you are > mixing Christine up with Josie Pie... > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Sorry. You're mixing up the books with the Sullivan movies. Lucy Maud Montgomery's Gilbert accompanied Christine around as a favor to a friend. Kevin Sullivan felt as if he had to spice things up, so in the 1980s miniseries we all know and love, Gil actually was engaged to Christine for a time. Try telling a LMM fanatic that Sullivan's view of the world is authentic Maud. They'd howl (and usually do, as many of them absolutely hate the movies). Her Gilbert was exemplified by faithfulness... even in book #6, Anne of Ingleside, it is only Anne's imagination that Gilbert does not love her anymore. At the end of the novel, there's an explanation for everything. The criticism that we always toss around at the Kindred Spirits group (which is the LMM answer to this group--same coolness) is that Gilbert is *too* perfect. I can't wait until the Harry Potter movies come out. As much as we've dissected the various points, I think there'll be some squirmish moments. --Ebony (who squirmed all through this year's Anne miniseries) From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Thu Dec 21 02:42:42 2000 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:42:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) References: <91mu5s+au9i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A416E22.EF550EA8@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7471 Ebony wrote: > WARNING: This is extremely long. Yes. But a very nice read. When I read this, I began composing a very long reply about some of the finer points of the Freud/Lacan viewpoint. I then re-read what I had written and decided that it was too off-topic and slightly self-important to waste bandwidth on :) /me suffers flashbacks from the trauma of graduate school... > I've been working on finding the > evidence all semester. The following is prewriting/brainstorming for > the paper I talked about so much earlier this fall. > Am I right in remembering that you did not get topic approval for this paper? That might be a good thing. You might want to save this up for a dissertation. If you come at it from a *slightly* different angle, you could have a very intersesting critical examination of psychological phenomena in the HP series. > Freud > and Lacan were my Waterloo this semester, and it took a long time for > me to wrestle with their worldview and prevail. :) > I'm not surprised if you've got a post-modern take on things. The Freudian and Neo-Freudian (of which Lacan is one) world-view is very pessimistic and deterministic; students often chew me a new ass when I introduce Freudian theory and *try* to convince them of its importance. > What we have here is a narrative that from all indications is > personal. It is fantasy, which means that it is highly symbolic?- > fantasy is pure imagination or *id*. The last 6-7 chapters of PoA > read like a dream to me, more so than any of the other sequences. > (Here I inserted long paraphrases from Freud's "The Pleasure > Principle" and "The Interpretation of Dreams" to prove my > point--I'll > spare you.) Not pure id. We'd be terrified if someone gave us pure id--it would be like reading American Psycho. What we get in dreams (not nightmares) is a more prettified version of our base desire. Remember the ego isn't turned off when we sleep, it's just less effective. Kinda like when mom's on the phone and the kids can manage to get away with a few things. Read also the end of Lecture XXIII, "The Paths to Symptom Formation," in The Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis. Here Freud talks about the artist as the exception to a life too rooted in fantsy that leads to neurosis. But what he says is that the successful artist takes his fantasy, presents it in a way that is not threatening ( I believe his word is repulsive) to himself or to others, and thereby acheives the fantasized ends. You might want to read (if you haven't already) "Creative Writers and Day-Dreaming," in Five Lectures. More Freud, but very interesting stuff. > The biggest problem I have is that JKR has no authorized biographical > material out there in book form. The interviews from Publisher's > Weekly, Time, etc. were accused by one of my colleagues as > being "carefully constructed fabrications straight from Joanne > Rowling's publicist." There's no way to do this type of > analysis > with credibility unless your sources are watertight. > The process is kind of what we (psychologists) call creating a psychological autopsy. I've always been facinated by lit-crit simply because sometimes there are sweeping generalizations made about the meaning and significance of an authors work based on assumptions from fairly thin evidence. Having said that, I do find it facinating that JKR had the burning desire to write about Harry at a time of significant turmoil in her life--failed marriage, single parenthood with a very young child, the humiliation of having to be on welfare. I think there is something to this idea that the fantasies that sustained her in this period of crisis are what we are seeing in these books. I also have the fear that as her quality of life improves (in Freudian terms, as she gains the fantazied ends), the pressure (drive) of her fantasy life will decrease and the quality of the books willl decrease as well. Let's all keep our fingers crossed that JKR is a healthy neurotic and will experience some significant degree of anxiety and conflict over the achievement of her fantasy. Sorry this post was so long. drpam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 02:47:17 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:47:17 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <3A40BB0E.89CD0F84@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91rqvl+avg8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7472 > > > An aeon ago, when I was 14, it was highly significant when a boy put > > his arm around you. BUT, a kiss on the cheek was the sign of > > affection, not passion. > > Yes, but it was *Hermione* who initiated the peck on the cheek, not > Harry. When I was 14, I'd have rather died than kiss a boy on the cheek > (yes, even one who was just a platonic friend), if he hadn't made some > move first. I still say it was a bit significant given her age. > > Penny > > Oh, Phooey, (she said with exquisite courtesy) you hadn't seen said friend almost killed. That's the difference. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 02:52:24 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:52:24 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <3A4113D6.2587282@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91rr98+vlq2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7473 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > naama wrote: > > > AND, I've just remembered, she broke down hysterically (!) when she > > realized that RON forgave her. When Harry showed he wasn't angry with > > her wasn't all that moved (as I recall, I don't have my copy here > > right now). > > Harry was never really angry with her in the first place -- not too much > anyway. Not long after the Firebolt was confiscated, he's thinking that > he knew she meant well, and he was hoping they could make it up soon. > By the time stubborn Ron got around to forgiving her, Harry & Hermione > had more or less already made their peace. > > > Naama, surprised to find herself an H/R shipper. > > That's okay -- we'll forgive you anyway. > > > I think you've forgotten Fleur's sister, Gabrielle. It was > > mainly because of her that he was the last to return (not to mention > > almost drowned). His "moral fibre" was exemplified precisely by > > helping a person who was completely UNrelated to him, and moreover, > > WAS related to one of his competitors. > > > I didn't forget Fleur's sister. My main point was just that *if* there > was a slash element to be found in the fact that Ron was Harry's "thing > he'd miss most," then that theory is a bit undercut by the fact that he > didn't take Ron immediately to the surface before trying to rescue the > others. > Nonsense (she said politely). He was showing moral fiber. He already knew that Ron was safe -- he'd rescued him. Harry is the hero. He's always trying to do the "right thing". And Cho is mostly fantasy -- didn't JKR say that the characters would mostly be interested in those who were wrong for them? Whereas Hermione is really a friend. Which is why he turned first to Hermione. He doesn't really have a relationship with Cho. Just fantasies about her and some sexual attraction. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:00:45 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:00:45 -0000 Subject: Ron and Harry!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91rrot+uvah@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7474 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for far too > long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the slasher > group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all know > it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are children's > books. Also being 16, i can pretty closely relate with what is going on. I > have a lot of close friends. But particularly i have a best friend, a girl > signe, and a very close friend but not quite as good as best ;) guy friend > chris. Now, Chris and I are very close, But we could never be as close as > Signe or i mainly bc we relate to each others emotions better as females. > that however does not mean we need to start having sexual feelings. I did > think about those 2 as a pair before i sat down so as not to make a total > idiot of myself, But i must say it is rather silly. HP to me is not the > melodramatic world of american television where virtually every show has a > gay/lesbian character on it...(in case anyone wonders, I dont have a problem > with gay ppl, all of my step mothers siblings are and i love them all to > pieces) I mean, where have Harry and Ron ever shown any sign or tendency as > to this? Normally i am open minded with these things bc i can see a point i > know of evidence that i myself remember that could point this way, but for > this i see none. While yes, Ron matters to Harry more than anyone else > mainly bc they are best freinds...they have a bond something like brothers, > i know bc my best friend signe matters to me more than anyone else in the > world, bf or chris my other really close friend. I know this is a rather > long rant with prob a bit too much info about me in it ;) but i couldnt > help as to wondering where you get the factual basis for this from, I > mean...for now I would def declare Ron a heterosexual...and Harry too based > upon his "feelings for cho" (which i in no way support) I mean, if you can > show me evidence from the books, i will gladly eat my words....but until > then i remain vehmnently opposed to this :) > > Stephanie the Seething > _________________________________________________________________ I'm really glad you are so tolerant Stephanie, and have friends who are lesbian and gay, and have "no problem" with gay people. How nice. For the record, I don't watch television so I have no idea what's going on in U.S. television. But I don't quite understand why you are so angry. Why is this such a hot spot for you? Certainly Ron and Harry's tight friendship and relationship in the best history of buddies does not mean that there is an erotic or sexual element in it. Many people have best friends and buddies they adore and would die for who they are not erotically attracted to. However, Harry's fantasies about Cho, and Ron's interest in Fleur and Hermione do not necessarily preclude Harry and Ron's relationship having erotic content to it. In life, many intense adolescent friendships have erotic content to them. Sometimes that erotic content is ignored (people are obsessed with each other). But in fact, many adolescent boys do act on their erotic feelings for their male friends, and not just on U.S. television. This does not mean that they are gay or that they will choose men for partners. Many people in their lives have erotic feelings or have sexual activities for both genders. It's not all that uncommon. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:03:53 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:03:53 -0000 Subject: Ron and Harry!! In-Reply-To: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91rrup+10vf3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7475 > I do > agree that the 3 main characters exhibit no tendencies in this direction > but like I said, adolescents have been known to change their minds in > the course of all those raging hormones. > If in fact JKR's alternative universe mirrors our own about mixed gender issues, those with attraction to the same gender might not even be admitting it to themselves. If there is no social support... but where WAS the other Weasley twin the Yule ball... Susan From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 03:05:04 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:05:04 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91rmvu+bdb2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rs10+4vnj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7476 > > > I'd have to disagree with that, although what you are saying is a > pretty common distortion of Freud....completely alien to the austere and stoic spirit of psychoanalysis: Nevertheless, Lacan devoted considerable energy to papering over their differences, failing to do justice to either thinker in the end. > > - CMC WOW! The intelect and insight of everyone in this group continues to amaze me. While I've not complemented on it, I've found this Freud topic immensely interesting. Thanks Ebony, Caius, Rita and everyone else who has responded! I don't know much about this but I'm absorbing it all. Scott From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 03:11:19 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:11:19 -0000 Subject: The Kiss and Fanfics In-Reply-To: <007301c06add$d5bfb000$9c1c063e@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <91rscn+g6oe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7477 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > Ron has had to grow up hiw whole life being very aware of Harry as a kind of saviour ( he unwittingly defeated someone who was threteaning his whole community's existance ) and then has to deal with being Harry's closest friend and experiencing at close quarters what Harry has to deal with - the good and the bad. Jealousy has little to do with maturity. It just is there whether he likes it or not. I like Ron loads. In fact, I like all the Weasleys. But I can see why Ron has grown to resent Harry. Wow, Michelle... I never thought of it that way. As I've been trying to get inside Ron's head for the R/H (of sorts) fic I'm writing, this never occurred to me. I like the Ron that I'm writing, but he's not above criticism. Just like there are some things about Harry that bother me. Let me say that I've enjoyed all the Ron posts. I loved Ron at first- -until GoF I didn't dislike anyone but Draco--but think he's starting to bug. Carole also pointed out something that Ron would have to overcome... how do you think he handles criticism? Very well? Does he shrug it off? And BTW, I *adore* the Weasleys. JKR gets a gold star for fleshing out all of the members of the family perfectly... I'm re-reading the beginning of GoF this week at bedtime and I've been laughing so loud *again* at the chapters at the Burrow, etc. that my next-door neighbor's been pounding on the wall. --Ebony From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:10:24 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:10:24 -0000 Subject: Ron and Harry!! In-Reply-To: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91rsb0+s512@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7478 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephanie Becvar" > > > > I have let built up frustration and anger on this subject simmer for far > too > > long. I want to voice...LOUDLY if i must, my disent at the slasher > > group...or whatever they are called. First off by saying that we all know > > it was never JKs intent and it will never hapen being as thse are > children's > > books. > I hope the implication here is not that lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender themes are inappropriate for children. I hope no one buys into the mythology (lies) that lesbians and gays molest or recruit children or are bad for children. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:15:40 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:15:40 -0000 Subject: Ron and Harry!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91rsks+c51e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7479 > > B) I did not mean these are "Only" children's books...nor that they were > necessarily intended for children, BUT kids are a large part of the > audience. I mean, Imagine my horror when my little 9 year old sister who > reads these books ran to get me from my room over the summer while i was at > my dads to show me a fan fic she had found about Hermione getting prgnant at > the ownderful age of 16 with Harry as the Father. Stephanie, was I correct in hearing that you are 16? If yes, please understand that no one is suggesting that because you are incredibly close with your girlfriend that you might be a lesbian. A point I made last debate. We have all kinds of heterosexual activity in the GoF. Cho/Harry; Ron/Fleur; Cedric/Cho; Hermione/Victor; Hermione/Ron etc. etc. Yet no one sees this as unsuitable for children. Why would one assume that a same gender relationship would be explicit sex? In the context of this story, it would be the same kind of activity that takes place among mixed gender partners. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:17:16 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:17:16 -0000 Subject: Ron and Harry!! In-Reply-To: <3A411F13.A51DD2B7@texas.net> Message-ID: <91rsns+mhlj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7480 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Meredith Wilson wrote: > > I think Stephanie was a bit, um, energetic in her comments, but I think she's > reflecting a bit of my own thought--gay or not, what relevance does it have to > the story that's being told? Of course she is, Amanda. Well, what relevance does Harry and Cho have to the story, then? From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 03:20:00 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:20:00 -0000 Subject: The Kiss - a mistake? In-Reply-To: <91rges+69pj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rst0+tsse@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7481 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, zsenya at y... wrote: > Perhaps JK Rowling meant to write that Hermione kissed Ron instead - > it may show up in corrected 314th printings of Goblet of Fire... LOL! Someone needs to ask her that question, then, along with the Wand Order thing. (Notice I never posted on it--just like some get tired of H/H, I decided upon first read that it was a device for dramatic effect (I was crying on July 8) and never thought any more about it. That's my version of Penny's Casting aversion.) Next the R/H shippers will be screaming "blackmail!" and "bribes" and "some renegade H/H shipper got hold of the galleys!". The R/H pairing may be inevitable, but can it stand? Will it end up ruining a great friendship? I've always wondered. I'm going to stop saying that the kiss may be nothing. I usually try to see all sides of an argument, but my camp needs all the support we can get. :) --Ebony From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:20:36 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:20:36 -0000 Subject: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <91q4dk+8dtm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rsu4+5nu8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7482 > Also, re: a few of the other threads, (as I said before, I am a big > Ron/Hermione shipper) wasn't it Anne Shirley herself who said > something to the effect that she wanted the man she fell in love with > to be a little bit wicked. Truth be told, if you look at all the Anne > books, Gilbert is a bit boring by the end there (don't get me wrong, > he's still great, and has his moments, but he is very sort of, well, > just there, being honorable and good, isn't he?) In the books, Anne of Windy Poplars, Anne's House of Dreams, Anne of Ingleside, Rainbow Valley, etc. Gilbert has really vanished. The roguish and interesting boy is absent delivering babies. From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Dec 21 03:23:04 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:23:04 -0000 Subject: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" In-Reply-To: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDE3@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <91rt2o+t81k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7483 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ABoyko at s... wrote: > Okay, but what is a shipper? Or, why shipper? > > Angela -------- It's a fanfic term for anyone who endorses any particular relationship. Shipper=relationshipper. cass From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:23:18 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:23:18 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <91r5a5+7lbc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rt36+v100@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7484 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > > > > As for Gilbert Blythe, he wasn't completely 'true' to Anne. I > > remember that he was engaged to Christine in one of the middle > books > > and in one of the later books he flirted with Christine, ignoring > > Anne as she tripped into a puddle. > > > I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged to > Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases it > was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! > > > Naama But he WAS engaged to Christine..don't you remember? When Gilbert was so sick, Anne came to him and showed him the book dedicated to him, and said something about the planned wedding to Christine, and Gilbert said he had called it off because it wasn't fair to Christine. Susan (I have all those books, too, so I could go and look it up....) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 03:23:38 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:23:38 -0000 Subject: Support for He/R In-Reply-To: <91rgk7+560t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rt3q+bpb2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7485 Leyo wrote: > > A tidbit of support for He/R shippers: > > > > When asked "was something going on between Ron and Hermione during > the last > > half of Goblet of Fire?" in the Yahoo/Barnes&Noble chat, she > responded "Yes, > > something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical > boy.", which > > suggests Hermione might have feelings for Ron, even though he's > being a bit > > ... blunt. Zsenya responded: > THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I will have that to hold on to as I > wait for Book V. And if you wish upon a star, your dream may come true... Seriously, I wish them well in Book 5. That's just about right according to the PoU timetable. :) --Ebony From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:25:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:25:38 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic: Narnia In-Reply-To: <3A412483.426EFDA8@texas.net> Message-ID: <91rt7i+5ubi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7486 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Edmund..he never really redeems himself... > > I'm really not trying to yank your chain, because I know this is not your > thing, but remember that besides being a great piece of reading, this is > also a great Christian allegory. Edmund doesn't *have* to redeem himself, > he's the remorseful and repentant Sinner, he was redeemed by Aslan's > sacrifice. On the face of it, though, I think Edmund does shine through, > later on. > > --Amanda What do you mean, it's not my thing? I'm quite aware of the heavy duty Christian allegory that is the Narnia chronicles -- it's not exactly subtle....and you're right, in the Christian world, he was redeemed, he didn't have to do anything much himself expect express true penitence and sin no more... S From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 03:31:26 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:31:26 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. wrong about Gilbert In-Reply-To: <91rqqe+ub4v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rtie+mihb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7487 So sorry I was wrong Anne of the Island Gilbert laughed boyishly "Christine was engaged to somebody in her home town. I knew it and she knew I knew it." Mea culpa Susan From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 03:38:49 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:38:49 -0000 Subject: more lit theory (very OT--reply to CMC) In-Reply-To: <91rmvu+bdb2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91ru09+k2q6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7488 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > I could go on at inordinate length on this topic, but hopefully you get my drift. Thanks, CMC--I *knew* you'd find the holes for me! I hate psychoanalysis... and will forward your insightful post to a couple of my colleagues and mentors who are proofing the paper. Just one final thing: I do have a major problem with > Lacan (and Derrida, too) who you mention with admiration... I don't admire Lacan--for reasons previously stated. I don't worship Derrida either, but you cannot deny that his work is important to much postmodern literary criticism, especially ethnic and postcolonial studies. I do appreciate his extension of Saussure-- Derrida was essential to Gates while he was constructing a paradigm for African American literary criticism, the signifying chain--which is the essence of "black slang" or African-American Vernacular English. It also has important implications for understanding the African-American novel. I had little patience with Saussure until reading Derrida. This is because in AAVE, the correlation between signifier and signified is not as neat as in some other dialects. Many of the structuralists wrote their theories while looking at the world through a very narrow lens. Most modernists think Derrida is a very bad wizard. I'm no modernist. :) >Lacan is a highly subjective interpreter of Freud's > legacy, and many Freudians, and friends of Freud ? myself included - would strenuously reject his interpretations. Lacan, typically of the French intelligentsia of his day, is overly enamored of the discredited Marxist ideologies, whose Utopian fantasies Freud found completely alien to the austere and stoic spirit of psychoanalysis... Nevertheless, Lacan devoted considerable energy to papering over their differences, failing to do justice to either thinker in the end. I didn't know this. Thanks. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 03:49:47 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 03:49:47 -0000 Subject: George (was Ron and Harry!!) In-Reply-To: <91rrup+10vf3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91rukr+t2fo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7489 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > I do > > agree that the 3 main characters exhibit no tendencies in this > direction > > but like I said, adolescents have been known to change their minds > in > > the course of all those raging hormones. > > > > > If in fact JKR's alternative universe mirrors our own about mixed > gender issues, those with attraction to the same gender might not > even be admitting it to themselves. If there is no social support... > but where WAS the other Weasley twin the Yule ball... You know, it's been mentioned before, but has anyone ever noticed that the mouthpiece of Gred and Forge is sort of Fred? I'm assuming that Fred's the older twin by however many minutes (unless wizarding births are different than the Muggle variety), but when I first began reading the novels I saw them as this monolithic entity. Almost Siamese--JKR hadn't differentiated their personalities. But there does seem to be a difference. I wonder who initiates most of their pranks. Since George is quiet, maybe he went to the ball alone. But George being gay doesn't jar. In fact, as Carole says, it seems to fit. --Ebony From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 21 04:02:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:02:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Off-Topic: Narnia References: <91rt7i+5ubi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4180CB.3F5083F6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7490 Susan McGee wrote: > What do you mean, it's not my thing? I'm quite aware of the heavy > duty Christian allegory that is the Narnia chronicles -- it's not > exactly subtle....and you're right, in the Christian world, he was > redeemed, he didn't have to do anything much himself expect express > true penitence and sin no more... Hmmm. I'm trying to figure out what I'm saying here. First, that last isn't necessarily true. According to lots of protestant creeds, yes (that whole "saved" thing). But Roman Catholicism holds that there is an accounting for sin, even after forgiveness has been obtained. Sin causes damage, and the damage is still there to be fixed even after you're sorry. So there is accountability; remorse isn't a free pass, as it were. Answered a bit by Edmund's taking on the Witch and being mortally wounded, I thought. About it not being your thing--I meant that I didn't think you were Christian, not that you didn't know about the allegorical level of the work. Some fine points of theological detail might be missed by those of other religions, and I was attempting to clarify, that's all. There's loads of Wiccans on the list that I know of, and lots of other new-age type thinkers, and I sort of put you into the non-traditional-religion basket. And regardless of your beliefs, in many (most?) works, Christianity tends to be the assumption unless otherwise stated, like it or not, just as heterosexuality does. I had sort of gotten the impression that an unthinking acceptance of such basic assumptions irritated you, just in principle. So I was afraid my expounding upon the particulars of the basic assumption might be irritating. I hope that made sense; I'm real tired (kid Christmas parties at school, etc.). --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 21 04:14:28 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:14:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron and Harry!! References: <91rsns+mhlj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4183A4.DB9DFB33@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7491 Susan McGee wrote: > Of course she is, Amanda. Well, what relevance does Harry and Cho > have to the story, then? As I said in a different post: I'm anti-distraction-for-the-sake-of-principle. If JKR's plot involves awareness of feelings as a motivation or a distraction, then that *is* relevant and just fine with me. What this means is I don't think JKR should be doing anything but telling the story she wants to tell. Harry's feelings and reactions to Cho have a bearing on his behaviour, and hence are relevant to the story. The developing emotional maturity of several characters, and their interaction, will doubtless be relevant. What I object to is any whisper of the thought that JKR (or any other author), because of her success, must then begin to alter her creation to fit or attempt to alter social norms. The idea that because she's so well read, she should "use" her position to influence attitudes. She would stop being the storyteller, start being the manipulator, and it would make the tale she tells feel inauthentic, artificial. Sort of like the artificial-feeling section where Hermione's explaining how to say her name; that felt like something stuck in, not relevant, that JKR put in for a non-story-related reason. Again, I hope I'm making sense. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 21 04:24:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:24:06 -0600 Subject: Off-Topic: good author Message-ID: <3A4185E6.EB83BEC0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7492 A friend of mine, whose distinguishing characteristic in my mind for many years was the glorious tangle of long curly black hair, is now a prolific author (fantasy), and on the off-chance that any of you had read her stuff, I wondered what you thought. I also recommend her as a stop-gap as we wait, gasping like fish in the sun, for the next Harry Potter installment. Her name's Martha Wells, and here's her website: http://www.rtis.com/mwells/mwells.htm There's been such wonderful literary observations on the list, I wanted to see how your opinions of Martha's work compared with mine. Although I haven't wangled her last book yet.... --Amanda From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Dec 21 04:24:25 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 04:24:25 -0000 Subject: Harry's Shell Message-ID: <91s0lp+ovkv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7493 Harry and everyone around must be aware at some level that he is a "marked man," i.e., that he could be killed at any time. I think that this fact will continue to keep Harry from entering into deep relationships or giving too much of himself to another person emotionally. By not caring too much for another person, he doesn't risk hurting that person by his death. Personally, I think that this was his real (tho subliminal) motivation for telling Krum that Hermione is "just a friend." That scene didn't ring true to me *at all* -- I think that even at age 14 Harry would have developed strong feelings for Hermione, and "just a friend" doesn't describe them. [I can testify to this with some authority, since I used to be a 14 year old boy: A girl with Hermione's intelligence and spirit is incredibly sexy.] So he was actively pushing her away, even against his own inclinations. The threat hanging over him will create sense of "unfinished business" that will dominate Harry's life until Lord V is finally dealt with. Harry won't be able to give himself completely to anyone until he's able to stop looking out for what might be sneaking up behind him. What I would expect as Harry grows up would be for him to enter into relationships fairly easily, but to pull out before any deep feelings are established. He's already seen first hand how Diggory's death has hurt Cho, and I think that the memory will reinforce this pattern. Under these circumstances, I wouldn't *want* to see an H/H-ship, because it will never be what it could and should be... -Jim Flanagan From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 21 04:27:37 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:27:37 -0600 Subject: Support for He/R; Harry's Shell References: <91rt3q+bpb2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4186B9.FC9B2D16@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7494 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > Seriously, I wish them well in Book 5. That's just about right > according to the PoU timetable. :) > Well said, Ebony! I think a Ron/Herm pairing of some sort in the canon may indeed be inevitable. I am still a strong believer in the Farmer in the Dell theory (that Hermione likes Harry, not Ron) but .... a canon pairing of Ron & Hermione does not mean they eventually get married & live happily ever after. They're teenagers. Ron will get tired of being shown up by his superstar girlfriend, and Hermione will get tired of always arguing & bickering with her boyfriend. It doesn't stand much chance of lasting. So, they date .... leaving Hermione free to date Harry in adulthood (in the PoU sense or otherwise). Jim makes some excellent observations about Harry perhaps being a commitment-phobe until the whole Voldemort business is put to rest. I especially liked his take on the Harry/Krum scene, because I too thought it seemed a bit "off" (of course, I thought it was just my strong H/H shippiness coming through). Jim's interpretation makes alot of sense. I assume the Voldemort business will be tackled in a final way in Book 7 ... leaving the H/H ship for adulthood (which is what most all H/H shippers want/believe will/would happen anyway). This scenario would also make also those "no-shippers" during the canon folks happy. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Thu Dec 21 05:03:57 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:03:57 -0000 Subject: So many messages, so little time Message-ID: <91s2vt+n4h4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7495 Well, I am already about 500 messages behind the times and I am about to go away on vacation. So, I imagine I will have about 3000 messages to read when I get back, from you wordy people. I hope you all have fun scribbling away; I will be on a beach in the Caribbean far away from computers and cares. I hope all my wonderful Potterholic friends have wonderful holidays. --Joywitch From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 05:08:28 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:08:28 -0000 Subject: Harry's Shell; paging Dr. Pam In-Reply-To: <91s0lp+ovkv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91s38c+cmde@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7496 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Harry and everyone around must be aware at some level that he is > a "marked man," i.e., that he could be killed at any time... I wholeheartedly agree with everything in your post, Jim. *Very* well stated. Very well stated indeed. Another Jim around here (Jim Ferer AKA Dadgrid) wrote a fic entitled "The Granger Interview" that sort of has this take on things. I think it's in the files section... in case it's not, here's the ff.net URL-- http://www.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=story-read&storyid=61314 Without this fic, there's no way I could have outlined the one I'm writing. The interview's been marinating in my subconscious for months along with a lot of other ideas. Thanks for reminding me of it--I've just added it to my favorites page. --Ebony (P.S. Dr. Pam, thanks so much for responding to my very long, very awkward post. I don't have your post handy unfortunately--my computer's been weird. Would you mind if I e-mailed with more questions about Lacan offline? Please reply via private mail if this is okay... I don't want to clutter the list. Thanks again.) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 05:19:52 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:19:52 -0000 Subject: Support for He/R; Harry's Shell In-Reply-To: <3A4186B9.FC9B2D16@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91s3to+2eio@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7497 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > Well said, Ebony! I think a Ron/Herm pairing of some sort in the canon may indeed be inevitable. I am still a strong believer in the Farmer in the Dell theory (that Hermione likes Harry, not Ron) but .... a canon pairing of Ron & Hermione does not mean they eventually get married & live happily ever after. They're teenagers. Ron will get tired of being shown up by his superstar girlfriend, and Hermione will get tired of always arguing & bickering with her boyfriend. It doesn't stand much chance of lasting. So, they date .... leaving Hermione free to date Harry in adulthood (in the PoU sense or otherwise). You're right, Penny--it makes sense. Another thing that Carole pointed out to me a few days ago is Hermione's tendency to "show off her smarts" by correcting others. She does this to the boys a lot ("Aren't you two ever going to read *Hogwarts: A History"?) and I imagine it's a personality quirk that would carry over to any relationship she had. This may also be one of the reasons why she doesn't seem to have too many female friends. That might be cute for a while, but... do you think Ron would put up with it for long? I'm trying to speculate on how any long-term relationship between the two (Ron and Hermione) would play out, so I'd welcome the H/R folks giving me some help. Not just evidence of attraction from the canon--Mike Gray will be the first to tell you that's just the first step. What are the strengths of the pairing? --Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Thu Dec 21 05:42:59 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:42:59 -0800 Subject: Harry/Ron/Remus/Sirius/Mermaid/Alicia-Sue/President/LOL/Thin Air Message-ID: <3A419862.513E4264@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7498 Carole wrote: > I have trouble with the slash fics involving Sirius and Lupin...just because I am in > love with Sirius and so Lupin cannot have him... *I* have trouble with the slash fics involving Sirius and Remus... just because I am in love with *Remus* and so Sirius cannot have him... but nowhere near as MUCH trouble as I have with the fics that give him a female True Love!!! > I still want to read your fic suzanne about Sirius and the mermaid... When I logged on to see the posts, I saw there were subject/title lines about Sirius And Mermaid, and I wondered whether that had something to do with the fic I posted in this egroup's Files/Fanfic/Fanfic by Catlady this weekend (lily02.htm). Alicia-Sue wrote: > my teacher even found a way to ruin "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" for me! HOW? btw, I am very glad to see you back on list. Amanda wrote: > Well, I went to Winston Churchill High School, and *we* had a Prime Minister > and a Parliament. But Hogwarts isn't aping anything American, so I fail to see > why it would be President. There were English and British clubs and organizations that had Presidents before there ever was a United States of America. Dunno if there were club Presidents before 1492. wrote: > Perhaps JK Rowling meant to write that Hermione kissed Ron instead - it may > show up in corrected 314th printings of Goblet of Fire... LO so L that Tim came into the room to ask what I was laughing at. Amanda wrote: > Aberforth's Goat denied condoning various things. -- Aberforth, enough already! > I keep laughing out loud Me, too. wren lanier wrote: > if things can't be conjured out of thin air, how does Ollivander conjure a fountain > of wine from harry's wand in GoF? I expect that some things can be conjured out of thin air and other things can't. I expect that the more powerful the wizard, the more things can be conjured out of thin air, but NO ONE can conjure Galleons or magic artifacts out of thin air. In Ollivander's case, it may not be that he is such a powerful wizard, but that he has a magic artifact, designed for the purpose of testing wands (as he IS in the wand business), that has the magic power needed. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From catlady at wicca.net Thu Dec 21 05:49:58 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:49:58 -0800 Subject: Lit Crit Message-ID: <3A419A04.6B7CD99E@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7499 I really enjoyed reading what Ebony and Caius and Pam wrote, (and what Alicia-Sue and Amanda and Scott and so on wrote about having to take horrible Lit classes) and I might even wish that Pam hadn't deleted part of her message just because it was OT. But I REALLY wish someone had answered my question about 'What good is it?' That is my serious question. It's not intended as an attack. I want answers. Catlady cried from her heart: > It doesn't teach us why some stories are objects of beauty that take one's > breath away and last 'forever' and why other stories are loved in one era and > considered unreadable garbage by other eras. And it doesn't teach us anything > about the human condition: not about honor, not about envy, not about battle > fatigue.... > Which is working up to, somewhere in this post, I will ask you what is that > lit-crit stuff good for? -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Dec 21 05:51:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:51:07 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic: Narnia In-Reply-To: <3A4180CB.3F5083F6@texas.net> Message-ID: <91s5ob+ik5r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7500 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > What do you mean, it's not my thing? I'm quite aware of the heavy > > duty Christian allegory that is the Narnia chronicles -- it's not > > exactly subtle....and you're right, in the Christian world, he was > > redeemed, he didn't have to do anything much himself expect express > > true penitence and sin no more... > > Hmmm. I'm trying to figure out what I'm saying here. First, that last isn't > necessarily true. According to lots of protestant creeds, yes (that whole > "saved" thing). But Roman Catholicism holds that there is an accounting for > sin, even after forgiveness has been obtained. Sin causes damage, and the > damage is still there to be fixed even after you're sorry. So there is > accountability; remorse isn't a free pass, as it were. Answered a bit by > Edmund's taking on the Witch and being mortally wounded, I thought. > > About it not being your thing--I meant that I didn't think you were > Christian, not that you didn't know about the allegorical level of the work. I was a Roman Catholic for 23 years, and although I know that penance can be assigned (accountability), absolution takes place before penance. > Some fine points of theological detail might be missed by those of other > religions, and I was attempting to clarify, that's all. There's loads of > Wiccans on the list that I know of, and lots of other new-age type thinkers, > and I sort of put you into the non-traditional-religion basket. > > And regardless of your beliefs, in many (most?) works, Christianity tends to > be the assumption unless otherwise stated, like it or not, just as > heterosexuality does. I had sort of gotten the impression that an unthinking > acceptance of such basic assumptions irritated you, just in principle. So I > was afraid my expounding upon the particulars of the basic assumption might > be irritating. > > I hope that made sense; I'm real tired (kid Christmas parties at school, > etc.). > > --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 21 05:58:21 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:58:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Off-Topic: Narnia References: <91s5ob+ik5r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A419BFD.EB204131@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7501 Susan McGee wrote: > I was a Roman Catholic for 23 years, and although I know that penance > can be assigned (accountability), absolution takes place before > penance. True, but doing penance cuts down on the purgatory time, doesn't it? So you don't go to hell, but you still gotta pay the piper somewhere down the line. --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 21 06:51:46 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 06:51:46 -0000 Subject: Expecto Patronum! (filk) In-Reply-To: <91rnsp+u070@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91s9a2+kbgn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7502 > > Are these > > posted, compiles anyplace. > > As Steve Vander Ark noted, he will be posting the complete collection > soon on his site. Yes, I will. And now that Christmas vacation is here (I'm a school library media specialist, which means that I get time off right about now!) they will be posted very soon. I would expect that there will be a number of major upgrades to the Lexicon in the next week or two. That's assuming, of course, that my wife takes an understanding view of my staring at a monitor for hours on end during vacation...we'll see :) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 07:29:40 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:29:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7503 > > There is some 'old magic' that keeps Harry safe only when in the > > 'care' of his relatives. It has been hinted at but not explained in > > the text so far. And HP has to go to the Dursley at the beginning of > > vacation, but then can go on to the Weasleys: is there something in > > the 'old magic' that continues to keep him safe for some time after > > he leaves the Dursleys, but he has to go back to them periodically > > to refresh it? > >Well, this is an interesting take on it, and one that makes some sense >to me....although they never explain it to Harry, really, which would >make it easier for him to bear, I would think. I suppose he does know >that he's protected, so I guess he could put two and two together... Actually, Voldemort says this with Harry standing there in GoF...He says something along the lines of "I can not even touch him there" to the Death eaters while he is still roped to the tombstone...at least I am pretty sure...in the process of recruiting more HP fans i lent out my book. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 08:03:31 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:03:31 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <91rt36+v100@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91sdgj+vo5q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7504 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > > > > > > > As for Gilbert Blythe, he wasn't completely 'true' to Anne. I > > > remember that he was engaged to Christine in one of the middle > > books > > > and in one of the later books he flirted with Christine, ignoring > > > Anne as she tripped into a puddle. > > > > > I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged > to > > Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases > it > > was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! > > > > > > Naama > > But he WAS engaged to Christine..don't you remember? When Gilbert was > so sick, Anne came to him and showed him the book dedicated to him, > and said something about the planned wedding to Christine, and > Gilbert said he had called it off because it wasn't fair to Christine. > > Susan (I have all those books, too, so I could go and look it up....) You're either messing with my mind or we're living in paralell universes. We are talking about Lucy Maud Montgomery's "Anne of.." books, right? The scene you describe just doesn't exist. Whats going on??!? Wait, I'm having a flash of insight - could it be that there was a such a scene in the film or TV series? They may have mixed up with the books in your mind. Naama From john at walton.to Thu Dec 21 08:06:37 2000 From: john at walton.to (john at walton.to) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:06:37 PST Subject: Solstice Greetings - from John Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7505 Hello! John has just sent you a greeting card from Bluemountain.com. You can pick up your personal message here: http://www2.bluemountain.com/cards/boxb223535x5/gtdh45whzw6zf3.html Your card will be available for the next 90 days This service is 100% FREE! :) Have a good day and have fun! ________________________________________________________________________ Accessing your card indicates agreement with Blue Mountain's Website Rules: http://www.bluemountain.com/home/WebsiteRules.html Send FREE Blue Mountain cards to friends and family (and attach gifts too!) http://www.bluemountain.com From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 08:23:17 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:23:17 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Shell References: <91s0lp+ovkv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7506 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Flanagan To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 6:24 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Shell Personally, I think that this was his real (tho subliminal) motivation for telling Krum that Hermione is "just a friend." That scene didn't ring true to me *at all* -- I think that even at age 14 Harry would have developed strong feelings for Hermione, and "just a friend" doesn't describe them. [I can testify to this with some authority, since I used to be a 14 year old boy: A girl with Hermione's intelligence and spirit is incredibly sexy.] So he was actively pushing her away, even against his own inclinations. I'm not sure about that. After Hermione had her teeth fixed, Harry needed Ron to point it out for him. On the other hand, he was extremely impressed with her appearance at the Yule ball. Still, I think R/H is much more reasonable. What I would expect as Harry grows up would be for him to enter into relationships fairly easily, but to pull out before any deep feelings are established. He's already seen first hand how Diggory's death has hurt Cho, and I think that the memory will reinforce this pattern. Unfortunately, I think you're right. This is very characteristic for Harry. This is only one element of his complete ultimate-hero-always-in-suffering image. > Under these circumstances, I wouldn't *want* to see an H/H-ship, > because it will never be what it could and should be... > > -Jim Flanagan There are two completely contradictory approaches - one says - Give me something that could sub for the fifth book until I have the real thing. The other says - Give me anything that can't be confused with the books J/L, Draco-turns-good, slash, etc.) As for me - I've tried both - My first fic is a feeble attempt at the fifth year, and my second is a complete soapish impossibility. Which is better? I think I enjoyed writing the first one more. Undoubtedly, the second has more demand. Thanks for letting me ramble, yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 08:22:38 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:22:38 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <006501c06b3c$08dbb480$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <91seke+rfe1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7507 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > > I'm reminded of what Martin Gardner wrote in his preface to the > > Annotated Alice (fabulous book .... > > Fabulous quote, too! I'd like to track it down--could you give the title? Glad you liked it. The title is "The Annotated Alice". The quote is from the preface. > But, although I'm not big on Freud, I think freudians--and other movements > that use an author- (rather than text- or reader-) centered hermeneutic > (=interpretive strategy)--have a valid point: why *did* the author happen to > choose one particular palatte of words instead of some other palatte? > > Was it her conscious intent? (She wanted to get back at journalists, so she > created Rita.) Was it coincidence? (She sees a fly on her desk and writes > "flew into a rage.") Was it cultural-linguistic norms? (The hero is called > Harry, rather than Hermione, because our culture sets the default gender > value of young antagonists to male.) Was it a conscious but unexpressed > drive? (She thinks fortune tellers are humbugs, so she makes Trelawney a > nutcase.) Was it an unsconscious desire, drive or deficit? (She's troubled > by her id, or "inner Harry"; hence she hooks up Hermione--her literary > personification--with the safe Ron, yet leaves a certain ambiguity about > Hermione's feelings.) > > I'm not taking a stand for or against any of the examples above. (Well, > except for Rita Skeeter, which Jo denies.) But all four approaches can be > valid, if employed with a pinch of salt. We write the way we write because > of the kind of people we are and the kind of circumstances we write under. > Assuming psychoanalysis can tell us something about who we are (which is > admittedly debatable, especially when applied to people we don't even know > outside of their books), it has a place in lit. crit. > I'm really looking forward to a psychlogical theory based on Chaos theory. Maybe then it will be established that on a very deep level there is randomality in our thoughts, decisions and actions. Then we will be more busy looking at the beauty of the patterns our minds create (akin to the beauty of the patterns nature creates), instead of obsessing about underdetermining causes. Naama From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Dec 21 22:58:56 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:58:56 +0100 Subject: Psychological Theories & Lit. Crit. References: <91seke+rfe1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005901c06ba1$9f053840$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7508 > I'm really looking forward to a psychlogical theory based on Chaos theory. Maybe then it > will be established that on a very deep level there is randomality in our thoughts, > decisions and actions. _The Emperor's New Mind_ (Penrose) is an example of that sort of thinking. I only read parts of it, and it was a few years ago, but IIRC the book combines Gdel theorems, quantum dynamics and chaos theory to shore up old psychological bedrocks like freedom and subjectivity. Penrose wanted to prove that our pyschology is fundamentally non-algorithmic, could never (even in principle) be reduced to a computer program. > Then we will be more busy looking at the beauty of the patterns our > minds create (akin to the beauty of the patterns nature creates), instead of obsessing about > underdetermining causes. Do you? Really? I'm not sure. To believe that something (our pasts, our brains, our souls, our hang ups, God, the CIA, whatever) causes people to be who they are, is reassuring. It implies that I can (or could, at least theoretically) make sense of things people say, do or write, rather than just gawp at them. And if I could understand why Jo (or Dostojevski) wrote this or that, I might understand something new about myself. At which point, I might even see how to repair a broken part or two, maybe even grow a bit (Of course, that leaves open the small question of freedom--but does making freedom a by-product of a chaotic interaction between quantum-dynamic brain squiggles really help?) Which all goes to prove that interpreting Hermione in terms of penis envy is actually a serious and healthy pursuit ... (j/k!) (BTW, I'm very thankful for people like Ebony, Pam and CMC who can actually use the psychoanalytic tradition for anything besides off-color jokes. Their inputs have been fascinating!) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 21 11:06:20 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:06:20 +1100 Subject: problems with e-groups/various Message-ID: <01C06B9A.4991C740.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7509 Hi everybody - is it just me? Tonight I've got two of lots of some messages and none of others - makes reading a thread ... interesting! Next challenge - will this e-mail make it through what ever barrier is enshrouding either my computer or e-groups But- only got one of the responses to the wizard pictures but I like the theory that the picture reflects the state of mind of the person at the time it is taken. Good example of Sirus and Harry. Stephanie, just because they are books for children doesn't mean that they should not reflect the diversity of human life. After all there are going to be little gay boys and dykey girls reading as well. It makes the same sense to exclude them as it does to exclude children with disabilities or of a certain religious or racial group. After all most kids books are not going to get into the nitty gritty of living with cystic fibrosis or other conditions - doesn't mean those kids can't/shouldn't be reflected in books, same as the strange c hristian traditions - like eating the body of your dead god* - you might not want to go into the detail of what this means - but it doesn't mean it can just be pretended away And I think Remus and Sirus belong together. I'm convinced by grimslasher's stories (on ff.net - A camping story and Love in Ruins) I love A Sirus Affair too but, just not the same. I hope they will prove a very loving role model couple for George in years to come. storm *I do know this is usually seen as a metaphor and I'm trying to make a point about where people stand rather then be offensive - please take it in that sprit. From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 21 11:54:16 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:54:16 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP slash References: <91rbfl+8dk4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013801c06b45$519c7f20$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7510 > I certainly wouldn't recommend reading most of the slash fics if you > are of the opinion that everything in fanfic *must* follow the canon > to T. The slash writers know perfectly well that they're creating an > alternate universe, and frankly, the possibility of Harry and Ron > hooking up doesn't strike me as all that much less likely than Draco > turning into a sexy good guy in leather pants. What I find a real pity is that there aren't many f/f slash stories out there. When I fist read about HP Slash and a Ron/harry pairing I found it rather funny and didn't take it very seriously. But then I'm no Fan of the Highlander Slash, too. I really like the idea of a Remus/Sirius pairing ,the only trouble is ***this werewolf is *my* pet!!!*** and I see I'm not the only one with this problem. Well, at least (dare I say it?) the prospect of Sirius with Remus is sexy while Remus with another girl is discouraging. But my first thought when I heard "slash" was that Minerva and Poppy could be a couple... Yay, another wild theory of weirdness thrown out to the public ear! The only good and longer f/f story I found was Hermione's Heart my Minx which is absolutely great, but most of the other slash stories are m/m pairing - I think I even saw Draco/Neville, which I think is very ominous... Dinah From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 21 08:26:20 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:26:20 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! (And Sirius/ Sexy Mermaid) References: <003f01c06a9e$8ac7c9a0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> <3A40E2F9.4A519DD5@earthlink.net> <3A412123.786BA40B@texas.net> Message-ID: <000201c06b4d$4393fe00$4367063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7511 > What about kids like me, who always skipped over the "slow" parts to get to the exciting parts, what happens, who gets caught, who gets rescued and how, etc.? I had no boyfriend, but plenty of boy friends, and girl friends (in fact, the only one I have kept track of from this time is my best girl friend). I didn't date, nobody asked, I don't know if I'd have gone; I never had a curfew, I never needed one. Hormones were inconvenient things that made me have to deal with things like feminine products. They didn't send me boy-ward until college. Were I 14, I would not want the story cluttered up with romantic or sexual fluff; I'd want to know what Voldemort was going to do next, why Dumbledore's eyes gleamed, etc. I'm not anti-gay. I'm anti-distraction-for-the-sake-of-principle. If JKR chooses to make awareness of feelings a plot distraction, then that *is* relevant and just fine with me. Oh my goodness I had to repeat this post because this was me and that is exactly how I feel. Thanks for posting that Amanda. Michelle From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 21 13:57:39 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 21 Dec 2000 05:57:39 -0800 Subject: Solstice Greetings - from John Message-ID: <20001221135739.18177.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7512 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Dec 21 14:13:47 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:13:47 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs In-Reply-To: <3A409CDE.63103C4F@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7513 >I think it's the same thing that animates the painted pictures, >like Sir Cadogon & >the Fat Lady in the castle. Sir Cadogan, the Fat Lady and I guess the mermaid in the prefect's bathroom might have a slight difference. They actually talk and interact with the outside world. Hmm... I just had an image of Harry talking to his parent's photos... the possibilities! Nathan From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 14:43:17 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:43:17 -0000 Subject: Psychological Theories & Lit. Crit. In-Reply-To: <005901c06ba1$9f053840$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <91t4u5+rgms@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7514 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" = wrote: > > _The Emperor's New Mind_ (Penrose) is an example of that sort of thinking= . I > only read parts of it, and it was a few years ago, but IIRC the book > combines G?del theorems, quantum dynamics and chaos theory to shore up ol= d > psychological bedrocks like freedom and subjectivity. Penrose wanted to > prove that our pyschology is fundamentally non-algorithmic, could never > (even in principle) be reduced to a computer program. > That sounds very interesting and just what I was (dimly) thinking of. A point occurs to me, regarding AI - wouldn't it be possible to incorporte = randomality into a computer program? > > Then we will be more busy looking at the beauty of the patterns our > > minds create (akin to the beauty of the patterns nature creates), inste= ad > of obsessing about > > underdetermining causes. > > Do you? Really? I'm not sure. To believe that something (our pasts, our > brains, our souls, our hang ups, God, the CIA, whatever) causes people to= be > who they are, is reassuring. It implies that I can (or could, at least > theoretically) make sense of things people say, do or write, rather than > just gawp at them. And if I could understand why Jo (or Dostojevski) wrot= e > this or that, I might understand something new about myself. At which poi= nt, > I might even see how to repair a broken part or two, maybe even grow a bi= t > Yes, I really, really do. I find the thought of a completely determined wor= ld very barren. For me it is reassuring that there is a core of mystery to the world (and t= o people) that can never be cracked open. Besides, what does it matter whether you understand why Jo wrote what she d= id? What has it got to do with the effect the work has on you? The fact that you don't know= what made the author write what s/he did does not mean that you don't understand what s/h= e wrote. It should not (and I think, it does not) make a major difference to the way th= e book affects you. Which (again) reminds me of a quote: Why did the chicken cross the road? Derrida: Any number of contending discourses may be discovered within the act of the chicken crossing the road, and each interpretation is equally valid as the authorial intent can never be discerned, because structuralism is DEAD, DAMMIT, DEAD! (in http://www.jamesdawe.com/chickenjoke.html) > (Of course, that leaves open the small question of freedom--but does maki= ng > freedom a by-product of a chaotic interaction between quantum-dynamic bra= in > squiggles really help?) Strangely, for me it does. Maybe because I don't understand it at all (I'm = not a physicist) and I just grasp the slogans. > > Which all goes to prove that interpreting Hermione in terms of penis envy= is > actually a serious and healthy pursuit ... (j/k!) (BTW, I'm very thankful= > for people like Ebony, Pam and CMC who can actually use the psychoanalyti= c > tradition for anything besides off-color jokes. Their inputs have been > fascinating!) Agreed. Naama From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 14:58:51 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:58:51 -0000 Subject: Lit Crit In-Reply-To: <3A419A04.6B7CD99E@wicca.net> Message-ID: <91t5rb+uoq3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7515 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > But I REALLY wish someone had answered my question about 'What good is > it?' Hi Rita--as I said, I think the question is legitimate. I am giving it some thought before I answer. Those of us in the humanities are always called upon to justify our "right to exist", and while I have ready arguments for a lot of other things I've mentioned here (why teachers aren't all evil, why Christians aren't all intolerant, why the modern concept of race is based upon pseudoscience, and why Harry and Hermione belong together)--I'm still constructing my position about the value of my research field. A quick answer for you is that we are the defenders of the power of the pen. Some feel that literature is merely another form of entertainment--the post-Gutenberg era's equivalent of "bread and circuses". We in the humanites believe that we fulfill a function that the sciences do not--they study what we are, we study *who* we are. I'll get back to this soon. :) --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 15:19:20 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:19:20 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91seke+rfe1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91t71o+jaa4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7516 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > I'm really looking forward to a psychlogical theory based on Chaos theory. Maybe then it > will be established that on a very deep level there is randomality in our thoughts, > decisions and actions. Then we will be more busy looking at the beauty of the patterns our > minds create (akin to the beauty of the patterns nature creates), instead of obsessing about > underdetermining causes. Good luck marrying the Freudians, etc. to the postmodernists. I know *I'd* be a very unwilling bride. Also, an observation that I made often in our seminar--much of the current body of lit theory is *very* Western. I kept finding holes in folks like Propp (see my post from early September) because non-Western folktales follow very different patterns... and my professor (whose field is the Romantics) kept saying "I never thought of that." Therefore, you have many scholars currently concentrating on developing theoretical paradigms for the other 2/3 of the world's cultures. Another thing. Even if you think modern theory/philosophy is bunk, it *has* influenced the world we live in... and the way we think. It's even (gasp!) influenced the writers we so enjoy--like JKR, for instance. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 16:01:31 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:01:31 -0000 Subject: Derrida and the Annotated Harry In-Reply-To: <91t4u5+rgms@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91t9gr+7t70@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7517 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > Which (again) reminds me of a quote: > Why did the chicken cross the road? > Derrida: Any number of contending discourses may be discovered within the act of the chicken crossing the road, and > each interpretation is equally valid as the authorial > intent can never be discerned, because structuralism > is DEAD, DAMMIT, DEAD! > (in http://www.jamesdawe.com/chickenjoke.html) > I love it! I love it, love it, LOVE IT! This will be my sig quote for our grad school's online forum. Speaking of the Annotated Alice, one of my favorite annotated editions is the Annotated Anne. How about an Annotated HP/PS? I'd love to see a body of critical scholarship around HP--I don't think it's too farfetched. Then you could have all sorts of readings of HP... readings from all sorts of perspectives--feminist, cultural, postcolonial (according to our theory professor, that's a current trend in contemporary British lit anyway), structuralist (blech) and even psychoanalysis. Even if you don't agree with some of the perspectives, it is absolutely *fascinating* to read things from a different POV. But then again, I'm a postmodernist--so all points of view to me are of interest. --Ebony (whose favorite line from *The Matrix* was by far when the little kid/guru at the Oracle's home told Keanu/Neo "There is *no* spoon." Totally postmodern--totally cool.) From terzarima at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 16:18:16 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:18:16 -0500 Subject: Harry Has Two Godfathers(Was HP slash) References: <91rbfl+8dk4@eGroups.com> <013801c06b45$519c7f20$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A422D48.28AB6A6D@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7518 I just had to share this. Yes, it is slash, but it is rated PG and quite funny. Please don't kill me! "Harry Has Two Godfathers": a spoof on Sirius/Remus Slash-fiction and "Heather Has Two Mommies" (aplogies to Leslea Newman): http://www.slashcity.org/~nezad/HarryHasTwoGodfathers.htm Hehehehheh, Suzanne From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 21 16:39:57 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:39:57 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Has Two Godfathers(Was HP slash) References: <91rbfl+8dk4@eGroups.com> <013801c06b45$519c7f20$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> <3A422D48.28AB6A6D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005001c06b6c$a841d2e0$942a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7519 > "Harry Has Two Godfathers": a spoof on Sirius/Remus Slash-fiction and "Heather > Has Two Mommies" (aplogies to Leslea Newman): Dear goddess, that's... an article about animal hygiene!!! "Uncle Sirius gives Uncle Moony a fleabath once a month whether he needs it or not. He does not like Harry to help with this. He says that is because it is smelly, but Harry does not believe him." Well, I'm giggling like a maniac and just hope nobody asks me why :-) Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 21 16:44:52 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:44:52 +0100 Subject: Funny dreams Message-ID: <005b01c06b6d$586cb360$942a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7520 Just something I really want to share with you, because everybody else will say I'm nutters. I dreamt about the Harry Potter tonight. I was at my grandma's cutting salad, which is strange because I don't like salad. Anyway, she said there was someone waiting for me, and the Sybill Trelawney came gliding around the corner. She was weraing a glitering copper dress and looked very 20's style. And she began singing - musical style. It rhymed, but I forgot the words, I think to the tune "My way", something about not being a fraud but beind right and that she doesn't mind nobody listening to her because they will se who's right in the end. I'm just happy somebody woke me up, because I found it really disturbing... Dinah (who has the feeling that she should dust of her Tarot Cards before going to bed and see who she's going to dream about tonight) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Dec 21 17:01:14 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:01:14 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Has Two Godfathers(Was HP slash) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7521 I'm sorry, but this is one of the funniest things I've ever encountered. I'm trying really hard not to make a total scene giggling at work so that everyone asks what I'm doing and I don't have to say 'reading HP slash instead of revising the elementary school curriculum I'm working on.' Hey, the curriculum is about the moon, so it kind of ties in... ok, I'm grasping at straws here... Meredith ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Suzanne Burns [mailto:terzarima at earthlink.net] ** Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:18 AM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Has Two Godfathers(Was HP slash) ** ** ** I just had to share this. Yes, it is slash, but it is rated ** PG and quite funny. ** Please don't kill me! ** ** "Harry Has Two Godfathers": a spoof on Sirius/Remus ** Slash-fiction and "Heather ** Has Two Mommies" (aplogies to Leslea Newman): ** http://www.slashcity.org/~nezad/HarryHasTwoGodfathers.htm Hehehehheh, Suzanne To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 16:54:34 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:54:34 -0000 Subject: HP_FanFiction list plug Message-ID: <91tcka+oa5g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7522 Hi-- I just wated to plug a relatively new egroup that might be helpful to all the budding fic authors (like Suzanne--I'll be sure to read your fic when it's done!). It's called HP_FanFiction, and it's here at egroups.com... many prolific/popular authors in the fandom have started hanging out there. Cassie (better known as Cassandra Claire of Draco Dormiens/Draco Sinister fame) and Eliza Diawna Snape (who's written one of the most popular "Mary Sue" type fics) hang out there, as do our own Alicia/Sue Spinnet, Simon Branford (who has cameos in a dozen fics right now), Ellen and others. Beta readers, advice, and another place to publish your fic is all right there. The mail volume is relatively low as well... only about 115 members. What I most enjoy is the sense of humor everyone has... join today! --Ebony From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 21 17:06:42 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:06:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP_FanFiction list plug References: <91tcka+oa5g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007d01c06b70$64ac5a60$942a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7523 > Beta readers, advice, and another place to publish your fic is all > right there. The mail volume is relatively low as well... only about > 115 members. What I most enjoy is the sense of humor > everyone has... join today! Did, too. In the feeble hope that maybe, just maybe, I'll manage to actually finish a story and not start to jump at the other twenty ideas I've got. I have a folder with about 6 to 7 stories that aren't nearly half finished and don't have any order. The opening scene, something funny in between and some part at the finish... and that's how all those stories look like. That's really one of my fatal flaws, I never manage to finish things. *sigh* Dinah From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 21 17:20:09 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:20:09 -0800 Subject: Harry Has Two Godfathers(Was HP slash) Message-ID: <20001221172009.7794.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7524 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From dorband at uwp.edu Thu Dec 21 17:19:59 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:19:59 -0000 Subject: HP Websites Message-ID: <91te3v+p0s9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7525 FYI for all HP Webmasters fro Yahoo news: Thursday December 21 10:44 AM ET Time Warner Wins Against Harry Potter Cybersquatter By Stephanie Nebehay GENEVA (Reuters) - Time Warner Entertainment Company, which owns the copyright to the blockbuster series of Harry Potter (news - web sites) children's books, on Thursday won its case against a California-based cybersquatter, arbitrators announced. A total of 107 Internet addresses -- such as (harrypotterbooks.org), (harrypotterfilm.org) and (harrypotterstudios.com) -- were ordered to be transferred to the media giant. The ruling echoes those won by stars such as actress Julia Roberts, and the singers Madonna (news - web sites) and Tina Turner, who brought cases to the United Nations (news - web sites) agency which promotes copyright protection, the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). When news broke last March that the boy wizard Harry Potter's adventures were to be made into a film, a flurry of domain names appeared on the Internet, registered mainly by an entity known as HarperStephens. Arbitrators named by WIPO ruled that the entity, whose post office box address is in Agoura Hills, California, had ``no rights or legitimate interests'' in the domain names registered in ``bad faith.'' The panelists, Scott Donahey, Carol Anne Been and Dennis Arthur Foster, noted that Time Warner had ``promoted and advertised the books and related merchandise and created significant goodwill in connection with the (trade) marks.'' HarperStephens registered the ``vast majority of the domain names...on the day or the day after the news broke on CNN.com of the upcoming release of the Harry Potter movie,'' they added. The film, based on British author J.K. Rowling (news - web sites)'s phenomenally successful four-book series, is directed by Chris Columbus, being shot in Britain and is due for release in November 2001. Daniel Radcliffe, an 11-year-old British boy who played a young David Copperfield on BBC television, edged out thousands of competitors to win the coveted role in ``Harry Potter and the Philosophers' Stone,'' based on Rowling's first book (1997). Ruling May Be Appealed In 10 Days Time Warner's film studio unit Warner Bros purchased the character's film and merchandising rights, trademarks and copyrights from Rowling. The fourth book, ``Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire,'' has been a worldwide phenomenon with the largest initial print run ever. Total sales of the series run into millions of copies. The panel's order to transfer all of the domain names to Time Warner may be appealed within 10 days. The practice of cybersquatting -- when Web addresses are registered, often anonymously, in order to make money from a valuable domain name -- is criminal in some countries such as the United States. Several celebrities intent on protecting their name from cybersquatters have won rulings under the WIPO's fast-track arbitration procedure set up a year ago. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Dec 21 17:32:27 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:32:27 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <91sdgj+vo5q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91terb+9ns9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7526 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > As for Gilbert Blythe, he wasn't completely 'true' to Anne. I > > > > remember that he was engaged to Christine in one of the middle > > > books > > > > and in one of the later books he flirted with Christine, ignoring > > > > Anne as she tripped into a puddle. > > > > > > > I am shocked and practically speechless!!! Gilbert was NOT engaged > > to > > > Christine, and he definitely did NOT flirt with her. In both cases > > it > > > was only apprehensions Anne had, which were proven wrong!! > > > > > > > > > Naama > > > > But he WAS engaged to Christine..don't you remember? When Gilbert was > > so sick, Anne came to him and showed him the book dedicated to him, > > and said something about the planned wedding to Christine, and > > Gilbert said he had called it off because it wasn't fair to Christine. > > > > Susan (I have all those books, too, so I could go and look it up....) > > You're either messing with my mind or we're living in paralell universes. We are talking > about Lucy Maud Montgomery's "Anne of.." books, right? The scene you describe just doesn't > exist. Whats going on??!? > Wait, I'm having a flash of insight - could it be that there was a such a scene in the film > or TV series? They may have mixed up with the books in your mind. > > Naama I have to go back and re-read the Anne books, but I'm pretty sure in "Anne of Ingleside", Christine comes back and Gil flirts with her. But you're probably correct that it was based on Anne's insecurities. :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Dec 21 17:59:12 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:59:12 -0000 Subject: Christmas Dinner (Again) Message-ID: <91tgdg+92ko@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7527 Looks like Martha Stewart has gotten into the act. She has recipes for roast beef, roasted potatoes and Yorkshire pudding on her web site. http://www.marthastewart.com/television/program_guide/index.asp. :-) Milz BTW the funniest rendition of an English Christmas dinner in my opinion is the "Vicar of Dibley" Christmas show. From gkallen2 at home.com Thu Dec 21 21:06:09 2000 From: gkallen2 at home.com (Greg and Kelly) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:06:09 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! References: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> <003301c06a9b$ebfa52e0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <006f01c06b91$d88b1f40$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7528 Am I crazy?? I can't find this!! Any suggestions? Kelly Michigan, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole Estes" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Ron and Harry!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > > > > All fanfic is in fact an alternative universe. Thus, even if Ron & > > Hermione get married at the end of Book 7, I can continue to believe in > > my mind that it should really have happened as it does in PoU. > > For the list Newbies...PoU is a fanfic titled Harry Potter and the Paradigm > of Uncertainty. It takes place when the gang is 27, or there abouts. Its a > great story very popular with H/H shippers. There's a link on this egoup's > home page under links and fanfiction or you can find it and about 10,000 > other fanfictions at www.fanfiction.net > > carole > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Dec 21 18:17:02 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:17:02 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP_FanFiction list plug Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7529 Ok, for some reason I'm not able to find this list. I've been trudging through tons of lists with no luck and every search I did gave me lists about Hewlett-Packard printers. Not the 'HP' I adore. Help? Mer ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Ebony [mailto:ebonyink at hotmail.com] ** Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:55 AM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP_FanFiction list plug ** ** ** Hi-- ** ** I just wated to plug a relatively new egroup that might be helpful ** to all the budding fic authors (like Suzanne--I'll be sure to read ** your fic when it's done!). ** ** It's called HP_FanFiction, and it's here at egroups.com... many ** prolific/popular authors in the fandom have started hanging out ** there. Cassie (better known as Cassandra Claire of Draco ** Dormiens/Draco Sinister fame) and Eliza Diawna Snape (who's ** written one of the most popular "Mary Sue" type fics) hang out ** there, as do our own Alicia/Sue Spinnet, Simon Branford (who ** has cameos in a dozen fics right now), Ellen and others. ** ** Beta readers, advice, and another place to publish your fic is all ** right there. The mail volume is relatively low as well... ** only about ** 115 members. What I most enjoy is the sense of humor ** everyone has... join today! ** ** --Ebony ** ** ** -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor ** -------------------------~-~> ** eGroups eLerts ** It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! ** http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/977418189/ ** ------------------------------------------------------------- ** --------_-> ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 18:28:10 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:28:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP_FanFiction list plug References: Message-ID: <002c01c06b7b$c71eae40$f371d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7530 > Ok, for some reason I'm not able to find this list. I've been trudging > through tons of lists with no luck and every search I did gave me lists > about Hewlett-Packard printers. Not the 'HP' I adore. Help? > > Mer > Here's a link: http://www.egroups.com/group/HP_FanFiction hope that helps carole From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Dec 21 18:41:50 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:41:50 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP_FanFiction list plug Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7531 Thank you! Mer ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Carole Estes [mailto:lrcjestes at earthlink.net] ** Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:28 AM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] HP_FanFiction list plug ** ** ** ** ** > Ok, for some reason I'm not able to find this list. I've ** been trudging ** > through tons of lists with no luck and every search I did ** gave me lists ** > about Hewlett-Packard printers. Not the 'HP' I adore. Help? ** > ** > Mer ** > ** ** Here's a link: ** http://www.egroups.com/group/HP_FanFiction hope that helps carole To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 18:38:14 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:38:14 -0500 Subject: PoU link References: <3A40BDE8.15B2F180@swbell.net> <003301c06a9b$ebfa52e0$934ad63f@oemcomputer> <006f01c06b91$d88b1f40$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> Message-ID: <004a01c06b7d$2e8dc1a0$f371d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7532 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg and Kelly" > Am I crazy?? I can't find this!! Any suggestions? > > Kelly > Michigan, USA I'm assuming you mean PoU...from the context of the rest of the message. Here's the link to the PoU egroup: http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty you don't have to join the group to access the files. on www.fanfiction.net do a title search for Paradigm of Uncertainty. carole From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 18:45:38 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:45:38 -0000 Subject: OT (a bit personal) Re: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H In-Reply-To: <91t71o+jaa4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91tj4i+qalj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7533 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > Another thing. Even if you think modern theory/philosophy is > bunk, it *has* influenced the world we live in... and the way we > think. It's even (gasp!) influenced the writers we so enjoy--like > JKR, for instance. > I've e-mailed you about it, but I see I must make a formal disavowal here - I DO NOT think that modern theory/philosophy is bunk. I know next to nothing about theories of literary criticism or aesthetics (I'm not even sure about the spelling of that one!). You read way too much into my reactions to specific posts here. Naama, wishing she had kept her big mouth shut. From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Dec 21 19:16:58 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:16:58 -0000 Subject: HP slash In-Reply-To: <013801c06b45$519c7f20$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <91tkva+tqrf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7534 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > > What I find a real pity is that there aren't many f/f slash stories out there. When I fist read about HP Slash and a Ron/harry pairing I found it rather funny and didn't take it very seriously. But then I'm no Fan of the Highlander Slash, too. I really like the idea of a Remus/Sirius pairing ,the only trouble is ***this werewolf is *my* pet!!!*** and I see I'm not the only one with this problem. Well, at least (dare I say it?) the prospect of Sirius with Remus is sexy while Remus with another girl is discouraging. > But my first thought when I heard "slash" was that Minerva and Poppy > could be a couple... Yay, another wild theory of weirdness > thrown out to the public ear! > > The only good and longer f/f story I found was Hermione's Heart my Minx which is absolutely great, but most of the other slash stories are m/m pairing - I think I even saw Draco/Neville, which I think is very ominous... > > Dinah Draco/Neville? *blinks.* Okay. Well, prompted by your post I went over to hpslash and did a search for f/f. The only thing I came up with was one story..... Lily/Narcissa. *blinks some more.* (Don't they know Narcissa belongs with Sirius? *runs away from Carole, who is waving her monogrammed brick again.*) There does seem to be a big lack there. Not sure why that is. In the category of "more information than anyone needs" there are also numerous character-specific lists for some of the more popularly slashed characters and pairings: Sirius/Remus, Snape and Draco, that I know of. I don't have URLs, I just know that they exist. Cassie From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Dec 21 19:23:30 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:23:30 -0000 Subject: HP slash In-Reply-To: <91tkva+tqrf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91tlbi+61qu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7535 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" wrote: > Minx which is absolutely great, but most of the other slash stories > are m/m pairing - I think I even saw Draco/Neville, which I think is > very ominous... > > > > Dinah > > Draco/Neville? *blinks.* Okay. I think this is a reference to Eloria's Does he have a heart, which I stumbled across about a week ago - it's a WIP, very victorian in the most recent chapter. I admit that on the surface the premise is very unusual, and whatever relationship might eventually exist doesn't yet, but it's a good start and an original idea. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 21 19:23:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:23:43 -0000 Subject: Black, Say "Bye-Bye" (filk) Message-ID: <91tlbv+spg2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7536 Black, Say "Bye-Bye" (to the tune of As Time Goes By) (The Scene: Hogwarts, late at night. A team of DEMENTORS are awaiting the delivery of the fugitive Sirius Black, to whom they will administer the dreaded Dementor's Kiss) CHORUS OF DEMENTORS You've come to this abyss Our kiss does not bring bliss Away your soul must fly That fatal kiss we'll soon apply Black, say "Bye-Bye." When we throw back our hood You know it won't be good You're sorta gonna die We don't especially care why It's eye for eye (Enter running, CORNELIUS FUDGE, breathless and panting heavily) FUDGE: That Sirius Black - He's back on the loose Took him a hippogriff And went vamoose Dementors from Hogwarts Are at once excused - Any involvement I'll deny... (Exit FUDGE ? the DEMENTORS make their preparations for departure) DEMENTORS That darn Cornelius Fudge! Report him to Matt Drudge Make sure that he cries "Ouch!" Oh, well, it does no good to grouch - Let's go get Crouch! - CMC From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Thu Dec 21 20:54:06 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:54:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP slash Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7537 In a message dated 12/21/2000 2:30:52 PM Central Standard Time, cassandraclaire at mail.com writes: << In the category of "more information than anyone needs" there are also numerous character-specific lists for some of the more popularly slashed characters and pairings: Sirius/Remus, Snape and Draco, that I know of. I don't have URLs, I just know that they exist. >> There's also the Draconians list for Draco/Whoever and the hpfemmeslash list for f/f pairings and of course, there's the Weasleyslash list. I can get the urls for anyone who wants them. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ you can never have too many Weasleys ~ From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Dec 21 21:12:15 2000 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:12:15 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP slash Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7538 I'm interested to find out how much I'm enjoying the Draco slash. And I didn't think I was much of a Draco fan... You say you have URLs? Mer ** -----Original Message----- ** From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com [mailto:mlleelizabeth at aol.com] ** Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 12:54 PM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP slash ** ** ** In a message dated 12/21/2000 2:30:52 PM Central Standard Time, ** cassandraclaire at mail.com writes: ** ** << In the category of "more information than anyone needs" there are ** also numerous character-specific lists for some of the more ** popularly ** slashed characters and pairings: Sirius/Remus, Snape and ** Draco, that ** I know of. I don't have URLs, I just know that they exist. >> ** ** There's also the Draconians list for Draco/Whoever and the ** hpfemmeslash list ** for f/f pairings and of course, there's the Weasleyslash list. ** ** I can get the urls for anyone who wants them. ** ** Love & Light, ** *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ** ~ you can never have too many Weasleys ~ ** ** -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor ** -------------------------~-~> ** eLerts ** It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! ** http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/1/_/_/_/977432056/ ** ------------------------------------------------------------- ** --------_-> ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Dec 21 21:22:06 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:22:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Anne books. was: Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDE8@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7539 To clear this up - what Susan described is from the movie. Gilbert was not engaged to Christine in the books, as Susan recognized in another e-mail. I had never read the books when I saw the first movie, but I devoured them all shortly afterwards. I'm still pouting over the mess of the last movie - to me, the WWI era in LMM's universe will always be "Rilla of Ingleside", not "Anne of Generation X". Angela > -----Original Message----- > From: naama [SMTP:naama_gat at hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 4:04 AM > > > > > But he WAS engaged to Christine..don't you remember? When Gilbert was > > so sick, Anne came to him and showed him the book dedicated to him, > > and said something about the planned wedding to Christine, and > > Gilbert said he had called it off because it wasn't fair to Christine. > > > > Susan (I have all those books, too, so I could go and look it up....) > > You're either messing with my mind or we're living in paralell universes. > We are talking > about Lucy Maud Montgomery's "Anne of.." books, right? The scene you > describe just doesn't > exist. Whats going on??!? > Wait, I'm having a flash of insight - could it be that there was a such a > scene in the film > or TV series? They may have mixed up with the books in your mind. > > Naama > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Dec 21 22:11:18 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:11:18 -0000 Subject: HP slash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91tv66+eda9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7540 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Meredith Wilson wrote: > I'm interested to find out how much I'm enjoying the Draco slash. And I > didn't think I was much of a Draco fan... You say you have URLs? > > Mer ---------------------------------- As to Draco lists, *there* I can help you (not surprising, I suppose). Try http://www.egroups.com/group/draconian . cassie From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Dec 21 22:21:51 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:21:51 -0000 Subject: Some Insight on "The Farmer in the Dell" (OT?) Message-ID: <91tvpv+grmo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7541 The "Farmer in the Dell" theory has been mentioned a few times in the context of H/H, H/R, etc. Unfortunately the deep traumatic impact of this "game" cannot be fully appreciated by those who didn't play it as children. Here is a wonderful little piece that explains it all: http://www.moxiemag.com/moxie/articles/identity/farmer.html From ara_kel at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 00:16:19 2000 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:16:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Knockturn Alley Question Message-ID: <20001222001619.22790.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7542 In my current fanfic, I'm planning to have Harry and friends take a trip to London and enter Knockturn Alley from the Muggle world, similar to the way one can enter Diagon Alley from the Leaky Cauldron. I was wondering if a list member with some knowledge of London could tell me what part of the city might be the Muggle equivalent of Knockturn Alley, a place where the entrance might be found. Sarah ===== Don't refuse to go on an occasional wild goose chase. That's what wild geese are for. -- Anon. One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From duo at dangerous-minds.com Fri Dec 22 00:13:54 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:13:54 +0800 Subject: Lit Crit question... In-Reply-To: <91t9gr+7t70@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7543 Err, could someone give me a quick runthrough on what structuralism and postmodernism are? Nathan -engineer hoping to work From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 00:11:23 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:11:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91rr98+vlq2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A429C2B.1AB48C13@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7544 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > I didn't forget Fleur's sister. My main point was just that *if* > there was a slash element to be found in the fact that Ron was > Harry's "thing he'd miss most," then that theory is a bit undercut by > the fact that he didn't take Ron immediately to the surface before > trying to rescue the others.> > > Nonsense (she said politely). He was showing moral fiber. He already > knew that Ron was safe -- he'd rescued him. So, in your mind, unbinding Ron was rescue enough? He didn't need to take him to the surface to be sure that he'd be able to breathe when the 1 hr had elapsed? I guess my point was simply that the rescue of Ron was incomplete at the time that Harry turned his attention to the other hostages. So, in the context of a slash argument, I would have thought that Harry would *fully* rescue Ron before playing the noble hero. This is all simply in the context of the original thread, which is that Ron was Harry's "thing he'd miss most," a point that was used in support of H/R slash relationship. I'm not arguing the point about turning to Hermione first instead of Cho at this point. > And Cho is mostly fantasy -- didn't JKR say that the characters would > mostly be interested in those who were wrong for them? Yep. Hmm .... Ron was interested in Hermione in GoF. Are you concurring that Hermione is Ron's Ms. Wrong based on JKR's statements then? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From marty at martynet.org Fri Dec 22 00:38:33 2000 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:38:33 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <3A429C2B.1AB48C13@swbell.net>; from pennylin@swbell.net on Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 06:11:23PM -0600 References: <91rr98+vlq2@eGroups.com> <3A429C2B.1AB48C13@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20001221163833.B23846@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7545 > So, in your mind, unbinding Ron was rescue enough? He didn't need to > take him to the surface to be sure that he'd be able to breathe when the > 1 hr had elapsed? I guess my point was simply that the rescue of Ron > was incomplete at the time that Harry turned his attention to the other > hostages. So, in the context of a slash argument, I would have thought > that Harry would *fully* rescue Ron before playing the noble hero. This > is all simply in the context of the original thread, which is that Ron > was Harry's "thing he'd miss most," a point that was used in support of > H/R slash relationship. Just to play devil's advocate: Even caring most for Ron wouldn't completely wipe caring for anyone else out of Harry's mind. With Ron free, Harry can always turn and finish rescuing Ron. That, however, wouldn't make him stop caring about Hermione completely (or even equally -- who's to say she wouldn't have been Harry's object if she hadn't been Viktor's?...why is my mind now turning even more perversely toward the weird ground of Ha/He/R? Hmmmm......), or even stop his nobler instincts about trying to get Gabrielle to safety as well. Love -- real, good love, at least -- doesn't make you stop being who you are, or who you're destined to be, and it doesn't cut you off from caring about anything else in the world. Marty From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 02:32:11 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 02:32:11 -0000 Subject: Some Insight on "The Farmer in the Dell" (OT?) In-Reply-To: <91tvpv+grmo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91uefb+htr1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7546 "The "Farmer in the Dell" theory has been mentioned a few times in the context of H/H, H/R, etc. Unfortunately the deep traumatic impact of this "game" cannot be fully appreciated by those who didn't play it as children. Here is a wonderful little piece that explains it all..." What sad little story! Anyway I can remember being a Kindergartner and playing the Farmer and the Dell. (I can't remember whether *I* was ever a Cheese though!) Ahh, poor Harry, the alleged cheese, unless of course if he is a wheel of Stilton...yum. Scott From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Dec 22 02:33:27 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:33:27 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Some Insight on "The Farmer in the Dell" (OT?) Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDEB@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7547 I don't remember playing that game - but I sure remember being the short geek who always got picked last for teams. Angela > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott [SMTP:harry_potter00 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:32 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Some Insight on "The Farmer in the Dell" > (OT?) > > "The "Farmer in the Dell" theory has been mentioned a few times in > the context of H/H, H/R, etc. Unfortunately the deep traumatic impact > of this "game" cannot be fully appreciated by those who didn't play > it as children. Here is a wonderful little piece that explains it > all..." > > What sad little story! Anyway I can remember being a Kindergartner > and playing the Farmer and the Dell. (I can't remember whether *I* > was ever a Cheese though!) Ahh, poor Harry, the alleged cheese, > unless of course if he is a wheel of Stilton...yum. > > Scott > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From vderark at bccs.org Fri Dec 22 04:13:58 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 04:13:58 -0000 Subject: Knockturn Alley Question In-Reply-To: <20001222001619.22790.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91uke6+cdvb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7548 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Sarah Rettger wrote: > In my current fanfic, I'm planning to have Harry and > friends take a trip to London and enter Knockturn > Alley from the Muggle world, similar to the way one > can enter Diagon Alley from the Leaky Cauldron. I was > wondering if a list member with some knowledge of > London could tell me what part of the city might be > the Muggle equivalent of Knockturn Alley, a place > where the entrance might be found. Why not have them enter Knockturn Alley by way of Diagon Alley? The two intersect near Gringotts. Knockturn Alley is essentially part of what is generally called Diagon Alley - it's a connected "sub-alley." The description in CS suggests that it's fairly small. The largest shop, Borgin and Burkes, certainly doesn't seem all that large. You can find more information on the Lexicon website. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 04:31:12 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:31:12 -0800 Subject: Lit Crit: Ebony, Naama, Goat, Martin Gardner Message-ID: <3A42D90F.5283B450@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7549 Ebony wrote: > Hi Rita--as I said, I think the question is legitimate. I am giving it some > thought before I answer. Those of us in the humanities are always called > upon to justify our "right to exist", What good the humanities are is a good question, but not the one I asked. I started by accepting the axiom that the humanities have value, and mentioned ANATOMY OF CRITICISM by Northrup Frye as a lit-crit book that I had found valuable to help understand literature better. (The specific question that I was working with at the time was: can a movie that ends with the heroic, wonderful protagonist dying be considered to have a happy ending? specifically MR ROBERTS.) My question is, how does psychoanalyzing authors from their book advance the mission of the humanities? I will elaborate by using Naama and Goat, below. Naama wrote: > Maybe then it will be established that on a very deep level there is > randomality in our thoughts, decisions and actions. Then we will be more > busy looking at the beauty of the patterns our minds create (akin to the > beauty of the patterns nature creates), instead of obsessing about > underdetermining causes. aBERFORTH'S gOAT WROTE: > Do you? Really? I'm not sure. To believe that something (our pasts, > our brains, our souls, our hang ups, God, the CIA, whatever) causes > people to be who they are, is reassuring. It implies that I can (or could, > at least theoretically) make sense of things people say, do or write, rather > than just gawp at them. And if I could understand why Jo (or Dostojevski) > wrote this or that, I might understand something new about myself. At > which point, I might even see how to repair a broken part or two, maybe > even grow a bit > (Of course, that leaves open the small question of freedom--but does > making freedom a by-product of a chaotic interaction between > quantum-dynamic brain squiggles really help?) *I* think we should be more busy looking at the beauty of the patterns our minds create, patterns which are called works of art, such as novels and hand crafted rocking chairs, rather than obsessing about underlying causes. Yay, Naama! Deciding that the author wrote the novel because of unresolved toilet training issues doesn't explain why the novel is beautiful and doesn't point out its beautiful features that someone might have overlooked and doesn't teach people how to make their novel come out beautiful. Also, Goat, I expect to learn about myself and other people from Hamlet's or Richard III's actions, reactions, and motives, NOT from Shakespeare's (especially if he was Francis Bacon). The work of art exists as itself whether it was written by Shakespeare or written by Bacon or grew on a tree. I think that one way of appreciating the beauty of the patterns that nature creates is just to look at them, but another way is by understanding how the underlying causes created that pattern. Some people see more beauty by looking at the rainbow while understanding how white light is split into colors by a prism because of being different wavelengths. It requires either a higher or a lower level of enlightenment than I have to see beauty in some of the patterns (of behavior) that human beings create -- racism is an example of a pattern that doesn't look beautiful to me. What natural science studies in the way of appreciating the causes of the beauty in nature is also useful for making fun technology. What social science studies in the way of appreciating the causes of the real life behavior of real humans is also useful for coping with the humans that one encounters in one's real life. Incidentally, I agree with Martin Gardner (Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener) that behaving at random is no more free will than is behaving deterministically. If you decide all your actions by flipping a coin (or tossing 2D10 (a pair of ten-sided dice)), you're the slave of the coin/dice. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From kathleen at carr.org Fri Dec 22 04:28:40 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:28:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: <200012220432.eBM4WIU15955@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7550 >Then again ... it's been a long time since I was 14, so maybe I'm just >not remembering it all that well. I wouldn't have thought twice about >kissing my guy buddies on the cheek at age 17 or 21 ... but 14? I don't >think so. > >Penny Yeah, but how many of your guy friends just faced the most evil wizard ever and watched him murder a fellow student? Kathy (who still ain't convinced of H/H, sorry) From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 04:32:12 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:32:12 -0800 Subject: f/f - LOL - Dreams - Cybersquatting Message-ID: <3A42D94B.3ABF667@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7551 Dinah wrote: > But my first thought when I heard "slash" was that Minerva and Poppy > could be a couple... Yay, another wild theory of weirdness thrown out > to the public ear! Minerva and Poppy COULD be a couple, but my intuition (and conviction) is that McGonagall and Hooch are a couple, have been a couple since they were 20-somethings. I have all these theories about their pet names for each other are Minnie and Hoochie (even more secret pet names are Minute Maid and Hoochie Koochie Girl), and they had a series of cats, each named Tommy, until Minnie became a cat Animagus and Hoochie became irrationally jealous that Minnie and Tommy might be gossiping about her behind her back in Cat, so they gave that Tommy to a Gryffindor student and didn't get another. But, continuing to repeat things I've said in previous posts, I am not interested in writing erotica about two sixty-something (okay, JKR said 70) ladies going to bed in flannel nightgowns and thick socks. Suzanne Burns wrote: > I just had to share this. Yes, it is slash, but it is rated PG and quite funny. > Please don't kill me! > "Harry Has Two Godfathers": a spoof on Sirius/Remus Slash-fiction and > "Heather Has Two Mommies" (aplogies to Leslea Newman): > http://www.slashcity.org/~nezad/HarryHasTwoGodfathers.htm I read it and I must join the chorus of people shouting "I laughed my head off!" Dinah wrote: > Just something I really want to share with you, because everybody else > will say I'm nutters. I dreamt about the Harry Potter tonight. Other people have sometimes reported (I think on this list) dreaming about the Harry Potter. I hope that makes it less scarey. Brian Dorband wrote: > FYI for all HP Webmasters fro Yahoo news: (snip) > HarperStephens registered the ``vast majority of the domain names... > on the day or the day after the news broke on CNN.com of the upcoming > release of the Harry Potter movie,'' they added. It sounds irrelevant as a precedent for domain names that actually ARE web sites for fan material and existed before the movie deal. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From kathleen at carr.org Fri Dec 22 04:35:45 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:35:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: <200012220439.eBM4dOU16829@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7552 Thought of something else... Yet another reason why I don't believe H/H is plausible: How come Ron did not get jealous of all the tabloid articles pairing up Harry and Hermione? Yes, there was the "scarlet woman" remark and all that, but it seemed to me he was pretty jealous of Viktor and didn't even seem bothered by the Harry-thing. And he was pretty jealous,too..I think if there were some underlying tension between Harry and Hermione, we would have seen Ron reacting to it. Have you noticed I always emerge from lurkdom when this topic comes up? You know, back when I first joined this list, I didn't care one way or the other, but somewhere along the line I became a devout R/H shipper. Ah well... Kathy >JKR gives us the kiss, but she also >takes great pains to detail the period of time when Harry and >Hermione were spending a lot of time together, the tabloid write-ups, >etc. I wonder if there's any reason for this beyond GoF. > >We can't just ignore the fact that Harry at least seems to not even >consider the possibility of anything other than friendship with >Hermione all throughout GoF. A friend is one thing, but if she >starts to head to the "sister" category we can hang it up. > >No, I'm not shooting myself or my fellow H/H shippers (who have >*extraordinarily* good taste, might I add) in the foot. I just like >to argue both sides of the debate... pick up the R/H ball and run >with it... it's fun to see how right we are anyway. (laughing again) > >--Ebony > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 04:41:34 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:41:34 -0800 Subject: Alternate GoF Message-ID: <3A42DB7E.998C0179@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7553 I wonder if a clever fanfic writer could write a gloss of GoF that would 'prove' that Snape was the still loyal Death Eater serving Voldemort at Hogwarts, that young Crouch either never was a Death Eater and was falsely convicted, or that he had been a Death Eater but turned his coat before V lost power and is the one 'who has left us forever, he will be killed', and that Mad-Eye Moody really was Mad-Eye Moody until the day of the Third Task -- the dustbin rumpus was just a co-incidence. Let's see. Young Crouch escaped from his father's house on purpose to go to Hogwarts to protect Harry et alia now that V had returned (if a former DE, he could know of V's return from his Dark Mark). Snape it was who knocked out Moody and stuffed him into his own trunk and Polyjuiced young Barty -- and put Barty under the Imperius Curse to do all that stuff at the tournament -- and the potion provided by Snape was FAKE Veritaserum, so Barty's testimony was not reliable -- -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From kathleen at carr.org Fri Dec 22 04:43:00 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:43:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: <200012220446.eBM4keU17782@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7554 Well said! Are your R/H fics on fanfiction.net? Titles, please? Kathy >Another writer described Ron as "pale" and "relatively nondescript" I >am gripping my computer tightly and gasping. Are we reading the same >books? I wonder if myself and a friend of mine who have been writing >Ron/Hermione fanfics have just projected a bunch of characteristics >onto him that don't really have any basis in the books. Who is Ron >really, as JK Rowling writes him? True, we can't know his inner >thoughts, because the stories are not from his POV, but he is a very >vocal character. I think there is little doubt as to how Ron is >feeling most of the time. I'm sure you guys have been through these >points before, but, I mean, look at the way he sacrificed himself on >the chess board, look at how he went down into the Chamber of Secrets >to find his sister, look at how he stood up to Harry in front of >Sirius Black. True, GoF dealt with situations in which Ron could not >really play a heroic part, but if he had been able to help, he would >have. And he will. I am sure of it. And if he betrays Harry in any >way, well, then, my heart will be broken, and I will just have to >write my own Harry Potter books and forget about JK Rowling. So There. > >Also, re: a few of the other threads, (as I said before, I am a big >Ron/Hermione shipper) wasn't it Anne Shirley herself who said >something to the effect that she wanted the man she fell in love with >to be a little bit wicked. Truth be told, if you look at all the Anne >books, Gilbert is a bit boring by the end there (don't get me wrong, >he's still great, and has his moments, but he is very sort of, well, >just there, being honorable and good, isn't he?) To me, Ron is lovely >and wicked. Harry isn't perfect, but he's likely to suffer from all >sorts of depression and intimacy issues as he grows up due to his >upbringing. > >Oh! And I was a big fan of Edmund in Lion, the Witch, and the >Wardrobe. Maybe there's something wrong with me but I couldn't help >it. He was so misunderstood - but he came around didn't he - he got >to be a king with his siblings. And actually, it is Susan who turns >out to be the black sheep if you get to the end of the series. I >never did like her. > >Re: the kiss - I don't think it meant anything. If ANYTHING, it >proves that Hermione likes Ron (hehe) - if you like someone you are >probably completely afraid to have any physical contact with them at >all, whereas if you just consider someone a friend, a little peck on >the cheek is a nice gesture of friendship. Poor girl probably >trembles with emotion every time Ron is near - he's so tall and >red-headed. > >Okay, well, I hope nobody's upset (and I hope you recognize that I'm >being good-natured - it's hard to come across in email)- I just felt I >had to speak up in defense of Ron. Poor guy! My friend and I are >actually working on a project now, which we plan to "debut" after New >Year's which is a website devoted to fanfiction writing and our dear >friend Ron. I will post an official announcement when it is all done. > >Happy Holidays everyone! > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From Ellimist15 at aol.com Fri Dec 22 05:00:23 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:00:23 EST Subject: Hermione Ancestry Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7555 Jim asked: << Now I'm curious - are there other "errors" on the covers and other illustrations? >> On the US cover of "Chamber of Secrets", Mrs. Norris is featured as a black cat, but according to her "dust-colored" description, I would have expected her to be grey. Ellie From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 05:30:07 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:30:07 -0000 Subject: Last Word About Crit for Crit's Sake In-Reply-To: <3A42D90F.5283B450@wicca.net> Message-ID: <91uosv+143g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7556 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > Ebony wrote: > Hi Rita--as I said, I think the question is legitimate. I am giving it some thought before I answer. > What good the humanities are is a good question, but not the one I > asked... You know what? I've thought about Rita's question, and as an American citizen I plead the fifth. I have absolutely nothing else new to add to this thread that 1) would be Harry Potter related and 2) would be something I haven't already stated. My apologies for veering so far off-topic over the past week! The primary motivation for my posting about this current project was to make yet another argument for H/H. :) If there are any more questions about this thread, criticism, etc. that are not Harry Potter related, please e-mail me off list. Can't say what the response time will be (as I don't check mail as often over vacation), but the offer stands. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 05:47:50 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:47:50 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <200012220439.eBM4dOU16829@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <91upu6+6s15@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7557 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Thought of something else... > > Yet another reason why I don't believe H/H is plausible: How come Ron did not get jealous of all the tabloid articles pairing up Harry and Hermione? Yes, there was the "scarlet woman" remark and all that, but it seemed to me he was pretty jealous of Viktor and didn't even seem bothered by the Harry-thing... To tell you the truth, Kathy, that surprised me too. Here's a few possible explanations: 1) Viktor has shown active interest in Hermione. Harry hasn't. In fact, he's been quite vocal about the fact that they are *just friends*. 2) If Hermione does like either of the two, she's doing a good enough job of hiding her feelings that Ron wouldn't pick up on anything less than kosher in her reactions to the articles. Girls at that age are good at doing that... I remember I had a crush on a friend from 7th to 10th grade--to this day he doesn't know about that phase. We grew up together, even went to the same college for undergrad--he never knew how I felt. 3) Is Ron a person who "picks up on things"? I'm not picking on his character (this time), but he doesn't seem to be as perceptive as he perhaps should be. > Have you noticed I always emerge from lurkdom when this topic comes up? You > know, back when I first joined this list, I didn't care one way or the other, > but somewhere along the line I became a devout R/H shipper. Ah well... That's okay, we won't hold it against you. :) Today I realized that I wasn't a post-GoF R/H shipper for six weeks... it was only for seven days, thank goodness. "And on the seventh day, she found PoU and learned that there was hope for H/H after all." --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 06:00:30 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:00:30 -0000 Subject: Second Task vs. World Cup (more shipper debate) Message-ID: <91uqlu+k91a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7558 Thought of something else... The fact that Ron is the person who Harry would miss the most is generally used as evidence for either Harry/Ron or anti- Harry/Hermione. I like the ideas Marty pointed out in her "devil's advocate" post. This has been mentioned before, but having both of the best friends down in the lake was a nice plot device. I noticed something interesting while re-reading the beginning of GoF in line at the bank today as well. Reading the actual Quidditch match, Harry interacts throughout the match much more with Hermione than he does with Ron. I think I read 3-4 pages without seeing Ron's name once, though he was right there! I know this may be because they are not sitting next to each other (one of our members made up an excellent diagram of seating arrangements--it may be in the Files section), and I read nothing into it, but I thought it was interesting. --Ebony From Aprilsong at AOL.COM Fri Dec 22 08:28:52 2000 From: Aprilsong at AOL.COM (Leilani Webb) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:28:52 -0000 Subject: My two knuts worth Message-ID: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7559 I joined the group a few days ago and have nearly gone blind perusing the archives. Here are some thoughts/comments. Forgive me if they have been discussed. 1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at Hogwarts. 2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts. 3. I think Dumbledore will turn out to be Harry's Grandfather. 4. Ron will marry Hermione and Harry will marry Ginny Weasley. 5. The descriptions of relationships of house elves to their masters sometimes sounds uncomfortably erotic. "She bound him to her with her own special brand of magic". Ewww. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 22:31:31 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:31:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lit Crit: Ebony, Naama, Goat, Martin Gardner References: <3A42D90F.5283B450@wicca.net> Message-ID: <003b01c06c66$f424f2a0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7560 > I think that one way of appreciating the beauty of the patterns that > nature creates is just to look at them, but another way is by > understanding how the underlying causes created that pattern. Some > people see more beauty by looking at the rainbow while understanding how > white light is split into colors by a prism because of being different > wavelengths. Well put! Before spouting off at Naama, I should have mentioned that I munch daisies on both sides of the fence in question. (Just as I should have mentioned that I accept both the overwhelming narrative of determinism and the silent narrative of free will--and have zero interest in harmonizing them.) I like to take Beauty apart (using any sort of analytical tools at hand), but I also like to enjoy it as a whole and play with it in my own world. BTW, psychoanalytical criticism fascinates me becuase it's a set of tools we theologians aren't generally taught to use. Apparantly, they're pointy and difficult to manage--and people are hesitant about turning us loose with them in rooms full of costly, 2000-year-old cannonical furniture. So I *was* hoping I'd get to try poking on Harry Potter a little ... Baaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 10:54:11 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:54:11 -0000 Subject: Some Insight on "The Farmer in the Dell" (OT?) In-Reply-To: <91tvpv+grmo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91vbsj+utk1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7561 "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > The "Farmer in the Dell" theory has been mentioned a few times in the > context of H/H, H/R, etc. Unfortunately the deep traumatic impact of > this "game" cannot be fully appreciated by those who didn't play it > as children. Here is a wonderful little piece that explains it all: > > http://www.moxiemag.com/moxie/articles/identity/farmer.html But this is not the Farmer in the Dell game I grew up with (in the UK) - in our game it stops with the dog wants a bone and a bone is chosen and then We all pat the bone We all pat the bone Right enough the pats might be a little rough, but it is all very jolly. And then The bone can't stand The bone can't stand and everybody together lifts the bone up in the air. Generally people wanted to be the bone - to be the bone was fun! Usually teachers insisted that it was the smallest child who was the bone but out in the playground sometimes us bigger girls got the chance and it was great to have everyone pat you and then lift you up. Pam From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 11:08:24 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:08:24 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91pctj+ak6g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91vcn8+63om@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7562 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > Penny wrote: > > > I know she might have just been thinking, "oh, poor Harry, he's > been through > > so> > much in the last few weeks," and just kissed > him spontaneously, without> > any real romantic interest. But .... > it could also indicate there are> > underlying feelings for him too. I would hope so. R/He/Ha have been through experiences more intense than most adults go through. Ask anybody who's been in a war; nobody is as close as his/her foxhole buddies. It's special, and will be more so for someone 14. > that this > was an extremely emotional time for all of them and she's relieved that one > of her best friends is ok. I do think that JKR was trying to emphasize not > only to Ron, but the reader that yes, Hermione is a girl (and she's becoming > a woman). Hermione gets emotional and IMO hormonal in a > once-a-month-mood-swingy kind of way. I'm a few years from being 14 but I can remember the mood swings like like they were just last month. : ) > Exactly. I don't see the once-a-month angle in Hermione yet. One of Hermione's challenges is going to be to sort out her feelings about Harry and Ron. She's verrrrryyy close to Harry but seems attracted(?) to Ron. OTOH, Harry is closer to Ron; he's much more anxious about Ron in the lake than Hermione; he hasn't a twinge of jealousy about Viktor/Hermione or Ron/Hermione. I see Hermione's kiss to Harry as a sign of caring and maturity. If she was really attracted to Harry she never would have done it. And BTW, those who see a slash indicator in Harry/Ron need to take a cold shower and head to the Karen Horney Clinic. > See what I mean? JKR did it on purpose--she *knew* we'd be discussing the last page for years! (And since there'll be no *Order of the Phoenix* in 2001 (sniff) I do mean years. Thank God for fanfic.) > Having said all that, I don't think Ron and Hermione are well-matched at all. It's funny, but I have no sense of how Harry/Hermione would be. >I like the way Penny's keeping score (especially when H/H is >winning) but I still don't think we can get too excited yet. Penny is looking forward to trying this case in the Court of Romantic Justice (There's a fic! What if there was one?) I'm re-reading the canon now to get a feel for the writing, and the canon is not helping my argument for the Harry side of things at all. In fact, in > the paper he *had* to be the ever-retreating Lacanian Other, because > he seems to be keeping her at arm's length as far as anything other > than friendship is concerned. JKR gives us the kiss, but she also > takes great pains to detail the period of time when Harry and > Hermione were spending a lot of time together, the tabloid write-ups, > etc. I wonder if there's any reason for this beyond GoF. > Doesn't it seem that boys/girls that grow up very close end up with someone else? It's almost like the incest taboo kicks in. > We can't just ignore the fact that Harry at least seems to not even > consider the possibility of anything other than friendship with > Hermione all throughout GoF. A friend is one thing, but if she > starts to head to the "sister" category we can hang it up. > > No, I'm not shooting myself or my fellow H/H shippers (who have > *extraordinarily* good taste, might I add) in the foot. I just like > to argue both sides of the debate... pick up the R/H ball and run > with it... it's fun to see how right we are anyway. (laughing again) Far be it for me to challenge you, Ebony. I'm a Ginny/Harry shipper and I have no support from JKR whatsoever, at least from Harry's side. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 11:36:47 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:36:47 -0000 Subject: My two knuts worth In-Reply-To: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91vecf+qmkr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7563 Responding to Leilani, who said: <<>> Welcome Leilani. The archives here are a wee bit daunting, it's true (the length of "Goblet of Fire" is a mere trifle in comparison) and topics resurface now and then. You've raised some interesting questions. Can I register a quick `no' vote on Grandpa Dumbledore and a R/He marriage and move on to the others? <<<1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at Hogwarts.>>> Cosseting Harry by giving him a room of his own surely wouldn't fit Dumbledore's apparent plan to toughen Harry up for his future role. He would want to develop humility and modesty, as well as strength and talent, in his prot?g?. More to the point, I think Harry would view a single room as a penance rather than a luxury, as it would isolate him from his friends and give the other students (especially Ron) even more reason to resent his fame and fortune. <<<2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts.>>> It's true that someone could and should have noticed the stark contrast in physique and dress between Harry and Dudley and concluded that Harry was unfairly disadvantaged. However, people aren't always attuned to the various forms child abuse can take and questions that should be asked are often left unsaid. If the Dursleys' neighbours didn't hear the sounds of violent physical abuse, they would perhaps have assumed that nothing was wrong. They would, thus, have overlooked the mental torture, psychological threats and deprivation suffered by Harry, most of which were achieved with hardly a raised voice. In the UK, the recent case of Fred and Rosemary West brought this type of `hidden' abuse home in chilling fashion. The Wests lived in a cosy suburban house, where Fred killed more than a dozen young people, including one of his daughters, while his wife Rosemary helped him dispose of the bodies in their home and under their garden. Throughout their childhood, the Wests' other children experienced unbelievable psychological torture right under the noses of their respectable neighbours. It sounds unbelievable that it took so long to come to light, but it happened. <<<5. The descriptions of relationships of house elves to their masters sometimes sounds uncomfortably erotic. "She bound him to her with her own special brand of magic". Ewww.>>> Elven eroticism? That's an unusual perspective! Neil From yael_pou at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 09:16:57 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:16:57 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My two knuts worth References: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7564 ----- Original Message ----- From: Leilani Webb I joined the group a few days ago and have nearly gone blind perusing the archives. Here are some thoughts/comments. Forgive me if they have been discussed. Welcome aboard! I'm actually new myself, and know exactly what you mean. Fortunately, I took someone's advice seriously, and opened a new mail account on hotmail solely for egroup messages. 3. I think Dumbledore will turn out to be Harry's Grandfather. I saw a transcript of an interview done with Rolling, and she said that the whole I-am-your-father/mother/sister/aunt thing is a little too star-wars for her. So, no, I don't think Dumbledore is Harry's relative. Anyway, he's too old to be his grandfather. Could be his great-great-great-grandfather maybe. 4. Ron will marry Hermione and Harry will marry Ginny Weasley. I have to agree with you on that. I even wrote a fic (not under romance) that includes some references to these two couples. 5. The descriptions of relationships of house elves to their masters sometimes sounds uncomfortably erotic. "She bound him to her with her own special brand of magic". Ewww. This is so funny, I actually saw a PG fic describing Dobby giving Harry a. Er. very good time. I think it was called 'good morning' or something like that. Thanks, Yael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Their clothes were cut off the edge of the latest fashion, which was currently inclining towards wide hats, padded shoulders, narrow waists and pointed shoes and gave its followers the appearance of being very well-dressed nails." - Terry Pratchett, Pyramids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 01:49:42 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 02:49:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lit Crit question... References: Message-ID: <006001c06c82$a319cfe0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7565 I think I'll keep my big mouth shut for once, and recommend a few sites (there are millions out there! I happen to appreciate these): Structuralism and Grandaddy Saussre (very short): http://courses.lib.odu.edu/engl/cbrooke/aacra/s2.htm The Rebellion: Post-Structuralism, Deconstruction, Postmodernism (by a English prof. in Korea, of all places--but it gives a nice, 15 minute introduction): http://hanbat.chungnam.ac.kr/~sunjung/mm-part5-introduction.htm Should you ever want to take a wild leap into the seas of semiotics, try Daniel Chandler's Semiotics for Beginners--it's articulate, online & free at http://www.argyroneta.com/s4b/ . Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 14:06:01 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:06:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <200012220432.eBM4WIU15955@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A435FC9.F01C5060@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7566 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >Then again ... it's been a long time since I was 14, so maybe I'm > just > >not remembering it all that well. I wouldn't have thought twice > about > >kissing my guy buddies on the cheek at age 17 or 21 ... but 14? I > don't > >think so. > > > >Penny > > Yeah, but how many of your guy friends just faced the most evil wizard > ever and watched him murder a fellow student? > Yeah, Susan made the same point. You both may be right. Me? I'll put *my* money on Ebony's 14 yr old students anyday! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 14:16:45 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:16:45 -0600 Subject: H/H v H/R; Merchandise References: <200012220439.eBM4dOU16829@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A43624D.973920B8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7567 Hi-- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Yet another reason why I don't believe H/H is plausible: How come Ron > did not get jealous of all the tabloid articles pairing up Harry and > Hermione? Yes, there was the "scarlet woman" remark and all that, but > it seemed to me he was pretty jealous of Viktor and didn't even seem > bothered by the Harry-thing. And he was pretty jealous,too..I think > if there were some underlying tension between Harry and Hermione, we > would have seen Ron reacting to it. Okay, I'll say it again. *My* theory is that Hermione likes Harry at this point in the canon, but Harry has shown no interest in Hermione at this point. So, there's nothing from Harry's end for Ron to pick up on. I think he's just not attuned to female signals enough yet to know how to read Hermione very well or he might pick up on what I think are her feelings for Harry. Like Ebony said, Ron ain't the most perceptive person around in my mind either, but in any case, there's nothing for him to pick up on from Harry. Viktor, OTOH, has shown clear & convincing evidence of romantic interest in Hermione. The Prophet articles were denied vociferously by both Harry & Hermione, and like I said earlier this week, the vehemence of their denials is interesting to me. The Krum/Harry conversation on this point is, like Jim pointed out, very revealing if you look below the surface of what Harry says. *I* think H/H is something that will develop over time, probably in adulthood after the Voldemort business is finished. They are infinitely better suited than Ron & Hermione. MERCHANDISE: I am delighted to report that I finally found the HP pillowcases, which have Harry on one side & Hermione on the other, yesterday! Previously, I'd only seen them as part of the bedding sets. There's a definite subliminal message in those pillowcases! My sister was shopping with me, and while she's a HP fan, she's not obsessed & has no real opinion on the shipper issues at all. I mentioned that Ron seems to be pretty absent from most of the WB merchandise. She shrugged and said, "Yeah, he's pretty vanilla though. A follower. Harry & Hermione are the exciting ones." Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 14:20:17 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:20:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91upu6+6s15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A436321.8D861436@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7568 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > 2) If Hermione does like either of the two, she's doing a good > enough job of hiding her feelings that Ron wouldn't pick up on > anything less than kosher in her reactions to the articles. Girls at > that age are good at doing that... I remember I had a crush on a > friend from 7th to 10th grade--to this day he doesn't know about that > phase. We grew up together, even went to the same college for > undergrad--he never knew how I felt. Boys are like that. I too think males can be very obtuse at reading those signals and even more so when they're 14. I would imagine there are a number of reasons why Hermione would actively want to hide her feelings, whether they are for Harry (as I believe) or Ron (as others believe). Neither case is particularly clear -- you have to look at signals & small signs to get a read at all on what Hermione might be thinking. I personally think it's a stronger case that she has romantic feelings for Harry but .... there's my bias. > That's okay, we won't hold it against you. :) Today I realized that > I wasn't a post-GoF R/H shipper for six weeks... it was only for > seven days, thank goodness. "And on the seventh day, she found PoU > and learned that there was hope for H/H after all." I was pretty much a "no-shipper" with mild R/H tendencies (never fully believed it was a good thing) until PoU converted me back in March sometime. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 14:26:39 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:26:39 -0600 Subject: Leilani Newbie Post References: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A43649F.4B415293@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7569 Hi -- Leilani Webb wrote: > I joined the group a few days ago and have nearly gone blind perusing > the archives. We are working on putting together substantive FAQs on about 60 different topics -- we are still hoping to upload most of them in January, although there will be gaps where the FAQs Committee is still working on things. A sampling of topics: Wizarding World Govenment, Hagrid, Religion & HP, Book Banning & Controversies, Mysteries & Inconsistencies, Wands, Spells, Voldemort as well as the obvious Harry, Hermione, Ron, Dumbledore, etc. This will make it much easier for new members to see what we've discussed before without consulting our 15000 messages in the archives. > 1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the > amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil > personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles > alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at > Hogwarts. I'll second Neil's thoughts on this one. Harry would never want to be singled out in that way. He abhors his fame and wants more than anything else in the world to be just "another student, another kid" leading a normal life. > 2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in > the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned > them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts. Again, Neil's thoughts are good. I can point you to posts around the last week of September & first week of October, where this topic was discussed in-depth. > 3. I think Dumbledore will turn out to be Harry's Grandfather. Implausible. JKR has said this sort of thing sounds too Star Wars-ish for her. And, Lily's surname was Evans, and of course, James' surname was Potter. And, yes, he's too old. > 4. Ron will marry Hermione and Harry will marry Ginny Weasley. No! Like Neil, I'll just leave it at that .... I'm a devout H/H shipper. Ginny is a background character, and Ron/Herm are ill-suited. Welcome! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 14:32:26 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:32:26 -0600 Subject: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post References: <91rr98+vlq2@eGroups.com> <3A429C2B.1AB48C13@swbell.net> <20001221163833.B23846@ludism.org> Message-ID: <3A4365FA.3664512E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7570 Hi -- marty at martynet.org wrote: > Just to play devil's advocate: Even caring most for Ron wouldn't > completely wipe caring for anyone else out of Harry's mind. With Ron > free, Harry can always turn and finish rescuing Ron. Good point. I wasn't really arguing anything other than if slashers see something in this scene, I think it's a fairly weak argument, all things considered. In other words, I'm certainly not passionately attached to this one. For once. > That, however, wouldn't make him stop caring about Hermione completely > (or even equally -- who's to say she wouldn't have been Harry's object > if she hadn't been Viktor's? Now, I *like* that one! I've argued that before .... the only reason Ron necessarily is Harry's thing he'd miss most is because Hermione is Krum's. And, Hermione is Krum's so that JKR can get the entire Trio at the bottom of the lake, along with Harry's crush interest, Cho. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 15:55:51 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:55:51 -0600 Subject: Fred and Rosemary West References: <91vecf+qmkr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004601c06c30$3bd4b680$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7571 Neil, could you send a link or something? I haven't heard about this story.... ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Flying Ford Anglia To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 5:36 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: My two knuts worth Responding to Leilani, who said: <<>> Welcome Leilani. The archives here are a wee bit daunting, it's true (the length of "Goblet of Fire" is a mere trifle in comparison) and topics resurface now and then. You've raised some interesting questions. Can I register a quick `no' vote on Grandpa Dumbledore and a R/He marriage.and move on to the others? <<<1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at Hogwarts.>>> Cosseting Harry by giving him a room of his own surely wouldn't fit Dumbledore's apparent plan to toughen Harry up for his future role. He would want to develop humility and modesty, as well as strength and talent, in his prot?g?. More to the point, I think Harry would view a single room as a penance rather than a luxury, as it would isolate him from his friends and give the other students (especially Ron) even more reason to resent his fame and fortune. <<<2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts.>>> It's true that someone could and should have noticed the stark contrast in physique and dress between Harry and Dudley and concluded that Harry was unfairly disadvantaged. However, people aren't always attuned to the various forms child abuse can take and questions that should be asked are often left unsaid. If the Dursleys' neighbours didn't hear the sounds of violent physical abuse, they would perhaps have assumed that nothing was wrong. They would, thus, have overlooked the mental torture, psychological threats and deprivation suffered by Harry, most of which were achieved with hardly a raised voice. In the UK, the recent case of Fred and Rosemary West brought this type of `hidden' abuse home in chilling fashion. The Wests lived in a cosy suburban house, where Fred killed more than a dozen young people, including one of his daughters, while his wife Rosemary helped him dispose of the bodies in their home and under their garden. Throughout their childhood, the Wests' other children experienced unbelievable psychological torture right under the noses of their respectable neighbours. It sounds unbelievable that it took so long to come to light, but it happened. <<<5. The descriptions of relationships of house elves to their masters sometimes sounds uncomfortably erotic. "She bound him to her with her own special brand of magic". Ewww.>>> Elven eroticism? That's an unusual perspective! Neil eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 18:41:27 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:41:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] help! urgent plea HP for Prez? difference in PS/SS Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7572 >President of what I do not know, but it does say "Potter for President" >in the UK edition as well. I dont know if maybe it was something JK took out of the books later, But i know that there are Pres. of schools right, Like a Pres of Oxford or Eton or something (I read First Amnong Equals and i think J Archer talks about it in there) and I know in the US we have Student Body Pres and Univ. Pres....So maybe it was something that she took out, like Harry and drace competing, or maybe it was some inside joke between the characters that got lost during editing??? Stephanie...Who read this book the other day and was thouroughly confused as well. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 15:08:57 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:08:57 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <3A43624D.973920B8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91vqq9+tmf5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7573 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > The Prophet articles were denied vociferously by both Harry & Hermione, and like I said earlier this week, the vehemence of their denials is interesting to me. Ah, but if they weren't vehement you would have been just as suspicious, wouldn't you? They're in a lose-lose situation, as far as you're concerened: When they are vehement about not having feelings, its a case of "the lady doth protest too much"; when Hermione kisses Harry its a straightforward proof of her feelings. It seems to me suspiciously like the kind of desperate logic that is needed to uphold an unsupported prejudice (in other quarters called wishful thinking). >The Krum/Harry conversation on this point is, like Jim pointed > out, very revealing if you look below the surface of what Harry >says. See above. >*I* think H/H is something that will develop over time, probably in > adulthood after the Voldemort business is finished. They are > infinitely better suited than Ron & Hermione. Are they? I think not. Both Harry and Hermione are ambitious in their own domains) and highly insecure. They both continually need to prove themselves. They would *not* be good for each other as a couple. OTOH, Ron's stability, cheerfulness and lack of intense ambition makes him very suitable to be Hermione's mate in life. For this reason, I believe, he is also suitable as Harry's best friend (in spite of his one episode of jealousy). Naama, awaiting a Howler. Naama From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 15:22:11 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:22:11 -0000 Subject: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post In-Reply-To: <3A4365FA.3664512E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7574 Marty said: >> That, however, wouldn't make him stop caring about Hermione completely(or even equally -- who's to say she wouldn't have been Harry's object if she hadn't been Viktor's? Penny replied: >>>>Now, I *like* that one! I've argued that before .... the only reason Ron necessarily is Harry's thing he'd miss most is because Hermione is Krum's. And, Hermione is Krum's so that JKR can get the entire Trio at the bottom of the lake, along with Harry's crush interest, Cho. *** Yes. In this scenario, JKR neatly side-stepped Harry's need to make a public choice between his two best friends. Despite missing my fix of Ha/He fanfic I'm still leaning towards to the Ha/He pairing, rather than R/He. A few thoughts/questions: **Could we assume that Hermione dated Krum to try to win Harry's attention? Was she trying to goad a reaction from him (or, let's be fair, from Ron)? **Is it me, or was Harry not overly bothered that Hermione was Krum's 'thing he'd miss most' after such a brief dalliance with her? If that were me, in a parallel situation, I'd be brimming with jealousy. I suppose we should wonder whether Harry is not bothered at all about Hermione or just encased in a teenaged ignorance of romance (we are talking about 14 year olds, let's not forget). **What would have happened if Harry and Krum had both 'chosen' Hermione as their treasure? Could that, in fact have happened, but Harry was the one who was allocated his second choice - Ron? **How did the Tournament organisers know 'the thing you'd miss most' in each case? IIRC, the contestants weren't asked about this. Did the judges read their minds or did they ask the other students and teachers for their views? If the latter is the case for Harry, I think Ron may well have been chosen over Hermione in a poll of the Hogwarts' contingent. **On balance, would Harry have decided he'd miss Cho(an unrequited crush) more than Ron or Hermione, if Cedric hadn't chosen Cho? In other words, could Ron have been Harry's third choice? **Could Harry (somehow) have named Ron, because he thought Ron needed a public affirmation of his friendship to boost his self esteem, whereas Hermione did not? **Final note: 'The thing you'd miss most' does not necessarily equal 'The person you'd most want to be your lover in a few years' time'. This was just a plot device, I think. I would, therefore, not read slash into the fact that Ron was chosen for Harry. Penny, forgive me if you thrashed this one out a couple of months back. I was not too involved in the discussions back then and my vision is too blurred with red wine at the moment to scan the archives. PS - Your subtle reference (in an earlier post) to the expectations of the FAQ committee is duly noted! Neil From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 15:38:04 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:38:04 -0000 Subject: Fred and Rosemary West (cf. The Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <004601c06c30$3bd4b680$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <91vsgs+c54r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7575 Denise Rohleder wrote: >>> Neil, could you send a link or something? I haven't heard about this story.... Sure Dee, This biog seems quite comprehensive: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serials/west/main.htm The case was huge news here in the mid 90s. For those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's a snippet: [Fred West's] son Andrew recalled, " If he felt we were in bed too late, he would throw a bucket of cold water over us. He would order us to dig the garden, and that meant the whole garden. Then he would inspect it like an army officer, and if he was not satisfied, we would have to do it all over again We were not allowed to speak and play like normal children. If we were noisy, he would go for us with a belt or chunk of wood. He would beat you black and blue until mum got in between us. Then she would get a good hiding." Neil From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Dec 22 15:55:35 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:55:35 -0000 Subject: Time Magazine article Message-ID: <91vthn+pomj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7576 I think it was mentioned here that Rowling was a runner-up for Time Magazine's Annual 'Person of the Year' cover. I finally read the magazine over breakfast. It has an interesting section within the Rowling article entitled 'The author on her own work: "Harry is an old soul"'. In it, she briefly touches upon Hermione's overachievement as compensation for her insecurities, Harry's "need-to-know basis" behavior, and Ron's "classic 14 year old" demeanor. She also writes that Harry, in GoF, was "too proud" to talk to Ron about their problems and was "walking around thinking "I'm the one with all the problems, but Ron had been a faithful friend for three years, and I [Rowling] would have cut ron a little more slack." Unfortunately, this section of the article does not appear on the Time website. :-) Milz..... Happy Holidays to all! From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 16:00:55 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:00:55 -0000 Subject: Fred and Rosemary West (cf. The Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <91vsgs+c54r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91vtrn+8bd7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7577 "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: For those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's a snippet: > [Fred West's] son Andrew recalled Oops! Actually, the quote (part of which below) was about the maternal grandfather's treatment of Rose West, the mother, not about Fred West's treatment of his children. ..." If he felt we were in bed too late, he would throw a bucket of cold water over us. etc etc... Sorry - I'm good for nothing. Best to read it yourselves, if you're interested. Neil From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 16:01:19 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:01:19 -0000 Subject: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post In-Reply-To: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91vtsf+b781@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7578 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > > Yes. In this scenario, JKR neatly side-stepped Harry's need to > make a public choice between his two best friends. I don't have my copy of GoF here (its out earning its living), but as I recall, Harry was thinking that "its much less fun, and much more hanging in the library" when Hermione is your best friend. That would imply that normally (when they're not not talking) Harry considers Ron his best friend. > > **Could we assume that Hermione dated Krum to try to win Harry's > attention? Was she trying to goad a reaction from him (or, let's be > fair, from Ron)? To be fair - from Ron. > **Is it me, or was Harry not overly bothered that Hermione was > Krum's 'thing he'd miss most' after such a brief dalliance with her? > If that were me, in a parallel situation, I'd be brimming with > jealousy. I suppose we should wonder whether Harry is not bothered > at all about Hermione or just encased in a teenaged ignorance of > romance (we are talking about 14 year olds, let's not forget). He just isn't bothered. And just to remind all you H/H shippers - Ron was, very much so! > > **How did the Tournament organisers know 'the thing you'd miss most' > in each case? IIRC, the contestants weren't asked about this. Did > the judges read their minds or did they ask the other students and > teachers for their views? If the latter is the case for Harry, I > think Ron may well have been chosen over Hermione in a poll of the > Hogwarts' contingent. I would think that each contestant's most important thing was revealed through magic. Prbably through the magic of the contest itself. > > **On balance, would Harry have decided he'd miss Cho(an unrequited > crush) more than Ron or Hermione, if Cedric hadn't chosen Cho? In > other words, could Ron have been Harry's third choice? Someone said this on a previous post and it bears repeating - Cho, as a crush, is a fantasy for Harry. Ron and Hermione and real, long-standing friends. Think from your experience - who would *you* miss most? > **Could Harry (somehow) have named Ron, because he thought Ron needed > a public affirmation of his friendship to boost his self esteem, > whereas Hermione did not? Grrrr. You admitted that they were not asked about this. Besides, Harry was totally surprised when Dobby told him that Ron (Wheezy, I think he called him?) was involved. Naama From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 16:07:11 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:07:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R References: <91vqq9+tmf5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A437C2F.70C1CDD7@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7579 Hi -- naama wrote: > Ah, but if they weren't vehement you would have been just as > suspicious, wouldn't you? They're in a lose-lose situation, as far as > you're concerened: When they are vehement about not having feelings, > its a case of "the lady doth protest too much"; when Hermione kisses > Harry its a straightforward proof of her feelings. It seems > to me suspiciously like the kind of desperate logic that is needed to > uphold an unsupported prejudice (in other quarters called wishful > thinking). Well, as a lawyer, I don't much care for having my logical skills attacked. But, let's see what I can do .... the vehemence of the denial is actually, on reflection, more on Harry's part. That was the point of Jim Flanagan's post earlier this week, and a point that I found interesting. Note: I didn't say it was suspicious behavior, I said it was of interest. Jim's point was that Harry may on a conscious or subconscious level have vehemently denied any feelings or attraction to Hermione as a defense mechanism, a mechanism he may employ with all other romantic entanglements until he's no longer a marked man. I think that's an interesting & valid point. I have also noted that oftentimes people who are attracted to each other (but don't want to acknowledge it even to themselves let alone the outside world) will make a public show of proclaiming to be "just friends." I speak from personal experience. This *could* be the case. Maybe not, but maybe. The kiss in my mind is just possibly evidence of Hermione's feelings for Harry. It's not straightforward by any means. I don't think I've yet argued that it was. I readily acknowledge it could very well be a red herring or just an insignificant detail that JKR threw in without any thought whatsoever. But, I do believe that (a) JKR emphasized the point (she could have just left it at "Hermione leaned up & kissed Harry on the cheek as they were saying goodbyes" - she needn't have added the "did something she'd never done before" bit), and (b) 14 yr old girls, in my experience, don't often take that sort of initiative. I'm with Ebony's students -- I think there's more to it than "my best friend just went through this terrible tragedy." That might be all there is to it, but I'll go with the 14 yr olds with that one. > >*I* think H/H is something that will develop over time, probably in > > adulthood after the Voldemort business is finished. They are > > infinitely better suited than Ron & Hermione. > > Are they? I think not. Both Harry and Hermione are ambitious in > their own domains) and highly insecure. They both continually need to > prove themselves. They would *not* be good for each other as a > couple. OTOH, Ron's stability, cheerfulness and lack of intense > ambition makes him very suitable to be Hermione's mate in life. OMG -- are we reading the same books? Ron's "lack of intense ambition"???? He's *the* most ambitious character in the series in my book. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in GoF IMO. He's far more ambitious than surface-level ambitious Percy. Ron is incredibly insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own insecurities but Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what either H or H demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better than everyone around him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of Erised -- himself, standing alone, more successful & admired than any of his friends & family. Well .... all I can say is we have a very different perspective on Ron. I don't see him as stable, cheerful or unambitious. Completely the opposite in my book. Ron has lots of great qualities, but a healthy level of ambition is not one of them (IMO). > For this reason, I believe, he is also suitable as Harry's best friend > > (in spite of his one episode of jealousy). Well .... I don't at all quarrel with the notion that he's a great best friend for Harry. But, I think the potential for his betrayal of Harry at some point to get the wealth and/or recognition that he so desperately craves is quite evident. I hope it doesn't happen, but the signs are sure there. Then again, maybe all of that is a red herring to throw us all off-base. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 17:03:57 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:03:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fred and Rosemary West (cf. The Dursleys) References: <91vsgs+c54r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015a01c06c39$2d1bb4a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7580 whoa. That was very deep, and will take awhile for me to assimilate--that someone could be that perverted. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Flying Ford Anglia To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 9:38 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fred and Rosemary West (cf. The Dursleys) Denise Rohleder wrote: >>> Neil, could you send a link or something? I haven't heard about this story.... Sure Dee, This biog seems quite comprehensive: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serials/west/main.htm The case was huge news here in the mid 90s. For those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's a snippet: [Fred West's] son Andrew recalled, " If he felt we were in bed too late, he would throw a bucket of cold water over us. He would order us to dig the garden, and that meant the whole garden. Then he would inspect it like an army officer, and if he was not satisfied, we would have to do it all over again. We were not allowed to speak and play like normal children. If we were noisy, he would go for us with a belt or chunk of wood. He would beat you black and blue until mum got in between us. Then she would get a good hiding." Neil eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 16:15:51 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:15:51 -0000 Subject: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post In-Reply-To: <91vtsf+b781@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <91vunn+tfke@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7581 I said: > > **Could Harry (somehow) have named Ron, because he thought Ron needed a public affirmation of his friendship to boost his self esteem, whereas Hermione did not? Naama said: > Grrrr. You admitted that they were not asked about this. Besides, > Harry was totally surprised when Dobby told him that Ron (Wheezy, I > think he called him?) was involved. Thank you, oh newly-elected President of the R/He fanclub! I know it sounded like I was contradicting myself in that post, but I was considering/posing a number of alternatives. Thanks for correcting me on a few of them (especially the one above). Also, re the question I posed about Cho, I'd agree that friends are far more important than crushes and perhaps even than lovers (unless they are also friends). I guess I was thinking of this as a comparison with He/K, in that Hermione was not much more than a crush to Krum at the time of the Tournament. Independently of the shipping forecasts, I'm a Ron Weasley fan, so please don't 'Grrrr' at me Neil From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 16:21:22 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:21:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post References: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A437F82.707D8273@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7582 Hi -- Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > **Could we assume that Hermione dated Krum to try to win Harry's > attention? Was she trying to goad a reaction from him (or, let's be > fair, from Ron)? I think she dated Krum because he paid romantic attention to her. She had gotten to know him in the library after all, and discovered that he didn't enjoy having the gaggle of girls fawning all over him. She got to know him as a person and liked what she saw well enough to accept a date with him. I don't think she did it to goad either boy into anything. I think she just wanted to be noticed as a girl, and Krum noticed her in that way. And, she got to go to the Yule Ball. Pretty evident that neither Ron nor Harry would have thought to ask her, except as a last resort. So, she was probably smart to go with Krum. It was her first real date, and she must have enjoyed the whole ritual of getting all dressed up as she took 3 hrs to do so! > **Is it me, or was Harry not overly bothered that Hermione was > Krum's 'thing he'd miss most' after such a brief dalliance with her? > If that were me, in a parallel situation, I'd be brimming with > jealousy. I suppose we should wonder whether Harry is not bothered > at all about Hermione or just encased in a teenaged ignorance of > romance (we are talking about 14 year olds, let's not forget). I think Harry & Ron are both a bit ignorant in the romance department so far. Harry is probably more disadvantaged in social skills because of his background. > **What would have happened if Harry and Krum had both 'chosen' > Hermione as their treasure? Could that, in fact have happened, but > Harry was the one who was allocated his second choice - Ron? Possible. Maybe if they allocated "treasures" alphabetically, they got to Krum before Potter & Krum's choice (decided by ... a poll of teachers or students??) was Hermione. So, given that Hermione's already taken, it was a clear call that Ron would be Harry's thing. There wasn't a need for the teachers or students (or magic) to divine whether Harry would favor one of his best friends over the other. I most definitely will never buy the argument that Harry would favor Ron over Hermione. They bring different strengths to their relationship with him. > **How did the Tournament organisers know 'the thing you'd miss most' > in each case? IIRC, the contestants weren't asked about this. Did > the judges read their minds or did they ask the other students and > teachers for their views? If the latter is the case for Harry, I > think Ron may well have been chosen over Hermione in a poll of the > Hogwarts' contingent. See above. > **On balance, would Harry have decided he'd miss Cho(an unrequited > crush) more than Ron or Hermione, if Cedric hadn't chosen Cho? In > other words, could Ron have been Harry's third choice? I agree with Naama that Cho is just fantasy, while Hermione & Ron are real proven friends. > **Could Harry (somehow) have named Ron, because he thought Ron needed > a public affirmation of his friendship to boost his self esteem, > whereas Hermione did not? I think Harry may not be too aware of Ron's insecurities. He didn't know much about Ron's motivations in their fight in GoF without Hermione telling him. But, if asked, he might well acknowledge that Hermione is far more secure than Ron. > **Final note: 'The thing you'd miss most' does not necessarily > equal 'The person you'd most want to be your lover in a few years' > time'. This was just a plot device, I think. I would, therefore, not > read slash into the fact that Ron was chosen for Harry. I agree that this was definitely a plot device to get all of the Trio & Cho down to the bottom of the lake. > PS - Your subtle reference (in an earlier post) to the expectations > of the FAQ committee is duly noted! Hey, I'm just as behind as anyone with all the Christmas stuff going on (and ASA!). No pressure intended! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 22 16:28:25 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:28:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post References: <91vtsf+b781@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A438129.43B7CA74@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7583 Hi -- naama wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" > wrote: > > > > Yes. In this scenario, JKR neatly side-stepped Harry's need to > > make a public choice between his two best friends. > > I don't have my copy of GoF here (its out earning its living), but as > I recall, Harry was thinking that "its much less fun, and much more > hanging in the library" when Hermione is your best friend. That would > imply that normally (when they're not not talking) Harry considers > Ron his best friend. Nope. Just means that he's a 14 yr old boy who misses his male best friend. He doesn't have anyone but Hermione. Ron has all the other Gryffindor guys to hang out with during their fight. One does wonder why Harry couldn't have approached Neville, who seems the type to have been loyal to Harry also. I will never, never, never buy the argument that Ron is somehow Harry's "better" best friend because of the above line. It just means that Harry needed his male best friend too. > He just isn't bothered. And just to remind all you H/H shippers - Ron > was, very much so! We don't need reminding! Ron is clearly bothered, jealous & upset -- he *clearly* likes Hermione! I can't imagine that there's any dispute from any H/H shipper on that score! What's in dispute is who *Hermione* likes! Most of us subscribe to some Farmer in the Dell theory or some belief that R/H won't last & will burn out, leaving Harry free to date Hermione when they're both adults. > I would think that each contestant's most important thing was > revealed through magic. Prbably through the magic of the contest > itself. Umm .... that might be. But, just because Harry's was Ron doesn't preclude Neil's scenario that Ron was his 2nd choice (or 3rd). I still think it was probably gleaned by a committee of staff members from each school. > > **Could Harry (somehow) have named Ron, because he thought Ron > needed > a public affirmation of his friendship to boost his self > esteem, > > whereas Hermione did not? > > Grrrr. You admitted that they were not asked about this. Why are you "grring" Naama? Neil didn't say they weren't asked -- he asked if they were or if it was divined some other way. It's all speculation unless JKR ever says how it worked. Another question I forgot to add to my response to Neil's post: *** How did Ron feel when he & Hermione went to Dumbledore's office & Ron learned that Hermione was Krum's treasure?? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zsenya at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 16:24:05 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:24:05 -0000 Subject: Delurking in defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <200012220446.eBM4keU17782@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <91vv75+h1c6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7584 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Well said! > > Are your R/H fics on fanfiction.net? Titles, please? > > Kathy Well, if you are interested...I have posted one just about Harry called "A Sirius Visit" The R/H one I am writing is "A Muggle Summer" There are 12 chapters posted so far (20 in all) My friend Arabella has written several - Awakenings is quite a good one. The website that we are going to announce officially right after New Years is dedicated to fan fiction and our own "interpretations" of the stories, so hopefully there will be lots more R/Hr stuff out there in one place! :)Zsenya From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Fri Dec 22 16:56:55 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:56:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R References: <91vqq9+tmf5@eGroups.com> <3A437C2F.70C1CDD7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <00e201c06c38$31b3a8c0$0252d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7585 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > naama wrote: > > Are they? I think not. Both Harry and Hermione are ambitious in > > their own domains) and highly insecure. They both continually need to > > prove themselves. They would *not* be good for each other as a > > couple. OTOH, Ron's stability, cheerfulness and lack of intense > > ambition makes him very suitable to be Hermione's mate in life. I'm with Penny on this one. Ron's got a quick temper, is easily offended by references to his poverty, to the point of getting bent out of shape when he realized he hadn't paid Harry back for the Omnioculars, even when Harry is saying don't worry about it. He refused to trust his best friends word that Harry was not out to enter his name in the GoF. Ron does not seem to me the cheerful, sunny, no worries type of guy that you see him as. He also seems to me the type that would eventually resent being overshadowed by a very successful wife. I am one who believes that Ron and Hermione will date in the canon, all obvious signs point in that direction (although I think the Farmer in the dell is plausible). But I can't see it lasting after Hogwarts. I know, we will never know what happens after Hogwarts and noone knows if any of the three will survive that long...that's what fanfiction is for. > Ron is incredibly > insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own insecurities but > Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what either H or H > demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better than everyone around > him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of Erised -- himself, standing > alone, more successful & admired than any of his friends & family. Additionally, Ron gets much less praise and confirmation of his worth than either Harry or Hermione. Hermione has the respect and accolades as the superior student. Harry gets the accolades as the hero. Ron is there supporting and cheering both of them. So while Hermione and Harry are getting the confirmation needed to alleviate their insecurities, Ron has not. As has been said in previous posts, what Ron needs is a place to shine in his own right, and that has not been shown, yet. And it seems to me that with his established tendancies to want fame and fortune, that unless he gets some recognition soon, he's going to become much less stable than we've seen to date, particularly as he heads into adolescence. I have to note here that I was a complete non-shipper ("they're just kids!") until I read PoU. That converted me to a H/H shipper, but only after Hogwarts. I'm keeping my ship for the Hogwarts years in dock until JKR writes more. Who knows maybe Hermione will fall for Draco Malfoy (rather than Harry or Ron)! carole From Aprilsong at aol.com Fri Dec 22 17:38:19 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:38:19 -0000 Subject: I just don't know about Ron Message-ID: <9203ib+n8pf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7586 I just have to say this. I don't trust Ron. He is not the true- blue, ever-faithful pal that I could have wished for Harry to have. He becomes angry and jealous over situations that Harry has no control over and he should be able to recognize that. Ron has a lot to learn about being a friend. With this history of fickleness, Ron could follow in the footsteps of wormtail and betray Harry. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Dec 22 17:42:25 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:42:25 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <00e201c06c38$31b3a8c0$0252d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9203q1+orpa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7587 I agree with J. K. Rowling (see Time Magazine Article): none of these kids are perfect and each has faults and insecurities. Harry is scarred by his past. Hermione is insecure about her Muggle past and copes via overachievement. Ron has an "unconventional parent" (Rowling's own opinion concerning Mr. Weasley's fondness for Muggles and Muggle things). But I agree strongly with Rowling that Ron is the "classic 14 year old". If Ron is the classic 14 year old, then he might very well be the most "normal" one of the three. Perhaps his "normalcy" is the heart of the group. Harry wants a family: Ron has a family. Hermione has a hang-up about her Muggle-ness: Ron belongs to a pure wizard family (mentioned by Dumbledore in CoS). Hermione's bond with Harry is that they are both outsiders to the wizarding world and to the other Hogwarts students. Both were raised in Muggle households. Both have larger than life reputations: Harry is a living legend and Hermione has distinguished herself as the smartest in the class. While this bond might lead to a future Harry- Hermione attraction, I can't forget the old saying "opposites attract" nor can I forget Rowling's own admission that there is something going on between Ron and Hermione, but Ron doesn't realize it. Not to offend the fanfic authors and fans, but we can't forget that the *official* Harry Potter Canon is whatever J. K. Rowling writes. :-) Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > > > naama wrote: > > > > Are they? I think not. Both Harry and Hermione are ambitious in > > > their own domains) and highly insecure. They both continually need to > > > prove themselves. They would *not* be good for each other as a > > > couple. OTOH, Ron's stability, cheerfulness and lack of intense > > > ambition makes him very suitable to be Hermione's mate in life. > > I'm with Penny on this one. Ron's got a quick temper, is easily offended by > references to his poverty, to the point of getting bent out of shape when he > realized he hadn't paid Harry back for the Omnioculars, even when Harry is > saying don't worry about it. He refused to trust his best friends word that > Harry was not out to enter his name in the GoF. Ron does not seem to me the > cheerful, sunny, no worries type of guy that you see him as. > > He also seems to me the type that would eventually resent being overshadowed > by a very successful wife. I am one who believes that Ron and Hermione will > date in the canon, all obvious signs point in that direction (although I > think the Farmer in the dell is plausible). But I can't see it lasting > after Hogwarts. I know, we will never know what happens after Hogwarts and > noone knows if any of the three will survive that long...that's what > fanfiction is for. > > > Ron is incredibly > > insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own insecurities but > > Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what either H or H > > demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better than everyone around > > him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of Erised -- himself, standing > > alone, more successful & admired than any of his friends & family. > > Additionally, Ron gets much less praise and confirmation of his worth than > either Harry or Hermione. Hermione has the respect and accolades as the > superior student. Harry gets the accolades as the hero. Ron is there > supporting and cheering both of them. So while Hermione and Harry are > getting the confirmation needed to alleviate their insecurities, Ron has > not. As has been said in previous posts, what Ron needs is a place to shine > in his own right, and that has not been shown, yet. And it seems to me that > with his established tendancies to want fame and fortune, that unless he > gets some recognition soon, he's going to become much less stable than we've > seen to date, particularly as he heads into adolescence. > > I have to note here that I was a complete non-shipper ("they're just kids!") > until I read PoU. That converted me to a H/H shipper, but only after > Hogwarts. I'm keeping my ship for the Hogwarts years in dock until JKR > writes more. Who knows maybe Hermione will fall for Draco Malfoy (rather > than Harry or Ron)! > > carole From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Dec 22 18:13:43 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:13:43 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <9203q1+orpa@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9205kn+hj8j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7588 Having dabbled my toes in the fan fic waters, I have formed a theory about why fic authors lean to H/H. Harry is a romantic hero. Despite his down to earth character, he has the glamour of his special destiny. Ron, on the other hand, is "normal" . Writing about R/He, one has to work a lot harder to make the relationship interesting. Does that make sense? Pippin From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 18:16:32 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:16:32 -0000 Subject: A map of Hogwarts. . . In-Reply-To: <009701c06002$1d62f700$4caf20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9205q0+t6kj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7589 yes this was the map i was looking for. thanks a bunch everyone. Merry Christmas! odile In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "lrcjestes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Odile " > > Awhile ago, before reading any of the Harry Potter books, I came > across this map of Hogwarts (complete, with the forbidden Forest, the > lake, everything) in a weekly US magazine (and, of course, > illustrated by Mary GrandPr?). Do any of you remember which magazine? > > ********************* > > There was one in Time magazine from September 20, 1999. That had all the > hotspots...Hogwarts, platform 9 3/4, the forbidden forest, Hagrid's cabin, > Hogsmead, Diagon Alley, and the Durseley's. I'm not sure that is the one you > are thinking of. Perhaps some of our more collector types would know? > > carole > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Dec 22 18:30:19 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:30:19 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <3A437C2F.70C1CDD7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9206jr+d70b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7590 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Penny wrote: " I'm with > Ebony's students -- I think there's more to it than "my best friend just > went through this terrible tragedy." That might be all there is to it, > but I'll go with the 14 yr olds with that one." Following in Ebony's footsteps, I thought I'd get the 14-year old perspective on the Harry/Hermione/Ron debate which fortunately wasn't difficult since my little cousins (14 and 13, the girls who got me reading the Harry Potter books in the first place) were having a sleepover party at my aunt's house yesterday. I sallied forth and asked them what they thought of "The Kiss" at the end of GoF. Responses follow. (I've cleaned up the diction a bit, since there were a lot of `likes' and `totally's ? my journalism training proving useful for once.) Cassie: So Hermione kissed Harry at the very end of GoF. What do we think this means? Cousins & friends: She likes him. Cassie: But couldn't she just have kissed him because he's her best friend, he's just been through a terrible ordeal, and she's fearful for his safety? Cousins (looking at Cassie as if she's the dimmest thing they've ever laid eyes on): No way. She totally likes him. Cassie: But wouldn't you feel awkward kissing a guy who really liked out of the blue like that, even if it was on the cheek? Cousins: Not in that sort of situation, with parents around and everyone saying goodbye and everything, because there wouldn't be potential for it to get awkward. (Cassie must admit that this has never occurred to her.) Cassie: Does Harry like Hermione? Cousins (after whispered conference): No, not yet. He likes Cho. Ron's the one that likes Hermione. Cassie: So Ron likes Hermione, but Hermione likes Harry? What about Ron's feelings?! Cousins: (with the true heartlessness of teenage girls) Well, that's his problem, isn't it? Suddenly glad I am * not * a teenage boy, Cassie From gkallen2 at home.com Fri Dec 22 21:32:46 2000 From: gkallen2 at home.com (Greg and Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:32:46 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Leilani Newbie Post References: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> <3A43649F.4B415293@swbell.net> Message-ID: <000d01c06c5e$bb471f60$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7591 > > 4. Ron will marry Hermione and Harry will marry Ginny Weasley. > > No! Like Neil, I'll just leave it at that .... I'm a devout H/H > shipper. Ginny is a background character, and Ron/Herm are ill-suited. > I tend to be a H/G shipper myself - if only because I just love the whole Weasley family, and want Harry to be a real part of it, since he has never had any family of his own. . . . Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" To: Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 6:26 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Leilani Newbie Post > Hi -- > > Leilani Webb wrote: > > > I joined the group a few days ago and have nearly gone blind perusing > > the archives. > > We are working on putting together substantive FAQs on about 60 > different topics -- we are still hoping to upload most of them in > January, although there will be gaps where the FAQs Committee is still > working on things. A sampling of topics: Wizarding World Govenment, > Hagrid, Religion & HP, Book Banning & Controversies, Mysteries & > Inconsistencies, Wands, Spells, Voldemort as well as the obvious Harry, > Hermione, Ron, Dumbledore, etc. This will make it much easier for new > members to see what we've discussed before without consulting our 15000 > messages in the archives. > > > 1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the > > amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil > > personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles > > alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at > > Hogwarts. > > I'll second Neil's thoughts on this one. Harry would never want to be > singled out in that way. He abhors his fame and wants more than > anything else in the world to be just "another student, another kid" > leading a normal life. > > > 2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in > > the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned > > them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts. > > Again, Neil's thoughts are good. I can point you to posts around the > last week of September & first week of October, where this topic was > discussed in-depth. > > > 3. I think Dumbledore will turn out to be Harry's Grandfather. > > Implausible. JKR has said this sort of thing sounds too Star Wars-ish > for her. And, Lily's surname was Evans, and of course, James' surname > was Potter. And, yes, he's too old. > > > 4. Ron will marry Hermione and Harry will marry Ginny Weasley. > > No! Like Neil, I'll just leave it at that .... I'm a devout H/H > shipper. Ginny is a background character, and Ron/Herm are ill-suited. > > Welcome! > > Penny > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Dec 22 19:25:04 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:25:04 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My two knuts worth In-Reply-To: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001222111347.00de55a0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7592 Hi, and welcome to the group! At 08:28 AM 12/22/00 +0000, Leilani Webb wrote: > 1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the >amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil >personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles >alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at >Hogwarts. Maybe Dumbledore is afraid of showing favoritism to any one student. > 2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in >the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned >them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts. I've heard abusers can be very artful in hiding their actions. > 3. I think Dumbledore will turn out to be Harry's Grandfather. Interesting idea, but then why doesn't Harry see Dumbledore in the Mirror of Erised? > 4. Ron will marry Hermione and Harry will marry Ginny Weasley. Very likely I think. Though I wish JKR would work on developing Ginny's character. > 5. The descriptions of relationships of house elves to their >masters sometimes sounds uncomfortably erotic. "She bound him to her >with her own special brand of magic". Ewww. I think that only means Winky created a sort of invisible "handcuff" to keep Crouch, Jr. from escaping. -- Dave From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 19:43:23 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:43:23 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <3A437C2F.70C1CDD7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <920asr+e87q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7593 Ok, I know I don't have much more to say on this topic but I'm dragging it our anyway. For clarification purposes this message is combining Penny's and Jim's... Penny wrote: "But, let's see what I can do .... the vehemence of the denial is actually, on reflection, more on Harry's part. That was the point of Jim Flanagan's post earlier this week, and a point that I found interesting...Jim's point was that Harry may on a conscious or subconscious level have vehemently denied any feelings or attraction to Hermione as a defense mechanism, a mechanism he may employ with all other romantic entanglements until he's no longer a marked man. I think that's an interesting & valid point." This is exactly what I think, and being a H/H shipper it's no suprise that I would argue this. But then why doesn't Harry view Cho in that same light. Why would he like to be involved with her but not Hermione. Perhaps viewing Hermione in the light of Friendship makes a difference. Jim wrote: "I think that even at age 14 Harry would have developed strong feelings for Hermione, and 'just a friend' doesn't describe them. [I can testify to this with some authority, since I used to be a 14 year old boy: A girl with Hermione's intelligence and spirit is incredibly sexy.] So he was actively pushing her away, even against his own inclinations." This sort of hits the nail on the head for me. I often wondered just WHY I was a H/H shipper and this is the best explanation. I'll admit that I'm a "bit" taken with Hermione. I agree with Jim 100% that Hermione's intelligence, spirit, and personality are VERY sexy (IMO more so than shallow beauty alone). However I don't know if that feeling is echoed by most boys my age (or Harry's)...So I guess my own feelings are what causes me to give (In My Mind) Harry and Hermione to each other. While it may never happen in the canon, I'm with Penny all the way on this one. Penny wrote: "The kiss in my mind is just possibly evidence of Hermione's feelings for Harry. It's not straightforward by any means. I don't think I've yet argued that it was. I readily acknowledge it could very well be a red herring or just an insignificant detail that JKR threw in without any thought whatsoever. But, I do believe that (a) JKR emphasized the point (she could have just left it at "Hermione leaned up & kissed Harry on the cheek as they were saying goodbyes" - she needn't have added the "did something she'd never done before" bit), and (b) 14 yr old girls, in my experience, don't often take that sort of initiative. I'm with Ebony's students -- I think there's more to it than "my best friend just went through this terrible tragedy." That might be all there is to it, but I'll go with the 14 yr olds with that one." Is it at all possible that Hermione could also be holding back feelings for Harry. I mean perhaps she thinks that Harry's attracted to her but she's not sure, thinking perhaps along the lines that Harry is afraid to show his feelings b/c of his situation. Maybe she is making an effort to care about Harry from a distance as not to put him in an uncomfortable situation an not to offend Ron. Penny also wrote: "OMG -- are we reading the same books? Ron's "lack of intense ambition"???? He's *the* most ambitious character in the series in my book. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in GoF IMO. He's far more ambitious than surface-level ambitious Percy. Ron is incredibly insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own insecurities but Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what either H or H demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better than everyone around him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of Erised -- himself, standing alone, more successful & admired than any of his friends & family. Well.... all I can say is we have a very different perspective on Ron. I don't see him as stable, cheerful or unambitious. Completely the opposite in my book. Ron has lots of great qualities, but a healthy level of ambition is not one of them (IMO)." I agree that Ron is quite ambitious, as much as, if not more than Percy. But Ron doesn't realise it. Does he? I mean he says that Percy would turn against the family (or something like that) as not to break the rules. Percy knows what he wants and is actively trying to persue that goal. Ron however wants to be recognized but has no idea how to go about it. He doesn't even vent his ambition in a healthy way but instead bubbles with anger and burst out at his friends like a tea kettle left on a burner and forgotten. IMO at least Ron's type of ambition is far more dangerous. I too have to agree that I have a growing uneasiness about Ron. I wonder if he, like Edmund in the Narnia Books will become the tratior and something of an allegorical Judas (despite the fact that the HP books aren't exactly a Christian allegory.) Scott ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 20:20:38 2000 From: AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com (Alicia/Sue Spinnet) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:20:38 -0000 Subject: Harry/Ron/Remus/Sirius/Mermaid/Alicia-Sue/President/LOL/Thin Air In-Reply-To: <3A419862.513E4264@wicca.net> Message-ID: <920d2n+v8qj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7594 Oh, it was *quite* easy... some quotes: "There's nothing that irritates me more than listening to a bunch of snot-nosed tenth-graders putting on phony English accents and pretending they're John Cleese." Admittedly, it *is* annoying hearing "NEE!" over and over, but still... a little less cruelty could have been appreciated, and not staring directly at me while saying it would have also... "You must understand, life is not a joke. Examine every aspect of this movie, and you'll see seriousness in the satire." Or something like that. By that point, I had begun drawing knights dueling with French bread on my answer sheet. "Will someone explain the significance of the ending? The Black knight? Lancelot's bloodthirsty ways? The peasants in the field? Suzanne, I'm talking to you! SUZANNE!" I was having a great time drawing the desired shrubbery by that time, and wasn't paying too much attention. Also, my eyes are apparently on autopilot to roll at roughly fifteen-second intervals. *shrug* I can never watch that movie again without thinking about the different "meanings" infused over those three hellish days. If that man even *touches* upon HP in English class and attempts to make me search for symbolism, I will do something not pretty. Blame the inarticulacy on the fact that I've just been released for Christmas vacation. *g* Wondering exactly how unproductive (or productive, if you're a reader of fanfic) one person can be over a ten-day vacation span, --Alicia/Sue "I Am an Aquabat" Spinnet > Alicia-Sue wrote: > > > my teacher even found a way to ruin "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" > for me! > > HOW? btw, I am very glad to see you back on list. From AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 20:24:50 2000 From: AliciaSpinnet at hotmail.com (Alicia/Sue Spinnet) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:24:50 -0000 Subject: Freudian/Lacanian Support for H/H (long) In-Reply-To: <91rs10+4vnj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920dai+1011n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7595 Nothing but ditto. *g* I'm learning more on HP4GU than in a semester of English classes. Wondering how many list members are English teachers in disguise, --Alicia/Sue "I Am an Aquabat" Spinnet > WOW! The intelect and insight of everyone in this group continues to > amaze me. While I've not complemented on it, I've found this Freud > topic immensely interesting. Thanks Ebony, Caius, Rita and everyone > else who has responded! I don't know much about this but I'm > absorbing it all. > > Scott From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 22 21:00:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:00:36 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: AL - A holiday present for us from 1405AD] Message-ID: <3A43C0F4.4E82DFA6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7596 Hi, all. For those of us in North America, I thought I'd forward this along. I mean, I'll be up cleaning, wrapping presents, etc., anyway... --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: AL - A holiday present for us from 1405AD Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:39:33 -600 From: gunnora at realtime.net Reply-To: Ansteorra-Laurels at ansteorra.org To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org In the wee hours on Friday, December 22, North America will be treated to the Ursid meteor shower, caused by a dense trail of dust that represents remnants of comet 8P/Tuttle, created in 1405AD. They are called Ursids because they appear to come from the constellation of Ursa Minor (the Little Bear). The meteors will become visible at 2:29 a.m. EST on Friday morning and will be best viewed in the United States and Canada. Peter Jenniskens of the SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) Institute, who is based at the NASA Ames Research Center in California and Esko Lyytinen, a meteor-watcher in Helsinki, Finland, have submitted their predictions to WGN, the Journal of the International Meteor Organization. They have also published it on the Internet at http://leonid.arc.nasa.gov/leonidnews28.html. ::GUNNORA:: ============================================================================ To be removed from the Ansteorra Laurels' mailing list, please send a message to Majordomo at Ansteorra.ORG with the message body of "unsubscribe ansteorra-laurels". From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 22 21:05:30 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:05:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Psychological Theories & Lit. Crit. References: <91t4u5+rgms@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A43C21A.BC4B3EC1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7597 Sorry if I missed a major point--the post to which this comment is directed came through very fragmented. I've also been getting multiple posts of some, and missing others entirely. What gives? naama wrote: > Yes, I really, really do. I find the thought of a completely determined world > very barren. It sort of depends on where you sit. Even if it *is* completely determined, unless the human perspective can grasp it all, it won't *seem* that way to our viewpoint, will it? I always sort of thought time was the way we experienced a determined universe, so that we, as components of it, did not know all the outcomes beforehand, thus keeping randomness a part of the pattern. Did that make any sense? I remember this thought of mine never sat well with a former roommate, the one who always read the last page of a book first so he'd know how it ended and could then read in peace without the tension of uncertainty.... --Amanda From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 22 21:30:18 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:30:18 -0000 Subject: Warner's Legal Hacks (filk) Message-ID: <920h5a+fn2t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7599 Did anyone see the article in Thursday's Wall Street Journal about Warner Brothers? The studio has launched a concerted effort to close down Harry Potter-related websites if they think that their (ha-ha) intellectual property rights to their $250 gazillion dollar cinematic extravaganza might be somehow be ameliorated by the efforts of some 15-year-old fan (especially sites with attractive domain names). The article gave several examples of teen fans who were being threatened (via e-mail and fax) with legal action if they either refused to close down the site or remove certain material. In some cases, they offered to allow the youth to continue the site, but only with the provision that they retain complete editorial control over it's content. If no one else posts it, I'll see if I can get a copy from my wife (she has the WSJ at her office). The article angered me (yeah, I know it's standard business practice), but it did result in a new filk (imagine that's being sung by the 'toon Warners Brothers, Yakko and Wakko, along with their new sidekick from Slytherin, Drakko) Warner Legal Hacks (to the Theme from Animaniacs) It's time for Warner's legal hacks! We're litigious to the max! You fans are such sad sacks You'll be knocked flat on your backs By our legal team's attacks! The books of JK Rowling fill a million hearts with joy But Harry's like our house-elf now, he's under our employ Violate our copyright, your website we'll destroy And, Harry, when we're through with you, you'll be just like Malfoy! We're the Warner legal team To augment our new regime It is now our current scheme To make all webmasters scream Who've a Harry Potter theme We've bought up all the Hogwarts rights, we're on the Potter throne You can't say "Quidditch," "Dumbledore," or even "Sorcerer's Stone" If your domain has an HP name, then that URL we now own And don't Doubt we can Fire you, and leave you Home Alone! We're the Warner's lawyer-hex Our bosses sign enormous checks Toward our campaign to annex Potter for your multiplex We're Warner Legal Not overly regal - Voyage of the Beagle - Joanthan L. Seagull - Son of Sam Spiegel - Landed has the Eagle - National League'll - Clinton Fatigue'll - Industrial Intrigue'll* Warner Legal Hacks! Watch for our fax! - CMC *As Animaniacs fans are aware, the penultimate line of their theme song usually changed with each new rendition ( "We're Animainy/Totally Insaney"/ then, "Shirley MacLainey", "Citizen Kaney", "Andromeda Strainy" "the rain in Spainy", etc). From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 22 21:41:21 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:41:21 -0000 Subject: Conjuring up things by Magic (I lost the original thread) Message-ID: <920hq1+m7d5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7600 I was thinking about the whole conjuring up things thread in relation to food. (Give me some of that evaporating stuff!) I don't find it very plausible that there is a large enough wizard farmer profession producing food for the rest of the wizarding population. I also don't find it likely, given the typical wizard's lack of muggle knowledge, that they get their food from Muggle suppliers. So I got to thinking about where they get the food...and then it hit me. House Elves (HE). I know that there's not really any evidence to back it up but in my mind at least it makes perfect sense. The HE's must be able to conjure up food from nothing. After all we know that their magic doesn't go by the same rules as the witches and wizards in Harry's world. This also led me to another hypothesis which is that "Rich people have HE's and those who have HE's are rich." Does that make ANY sense at all? I know that they sound rather alike but they are in fact quite different. Meaning that having a HE is not a symbol of wealth but a factor of it b/c they (HEs) can create commodities that other witches and wizards would have to grow or buy. The real question this leaves (if you believe my theory, and I'm not even sure I do...) is how does one accquire a HE and why can't the Weasely's get one? Scott Who hopes he's not being too terribly confusing... ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Dec 22 21:43:54 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:43:54 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Conjuring up things by Magic (I lost the ori ginal thread) Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDED@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7601 > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott [SMTP:harry_potter00 at yahoo.com] > I don't find it very plausible that there is a large enough wizard > farmer profession producing food for the rest of the wizarding > population. I also don't find it likely, given the typical wizard's > lack of muggle knowledge, that they get their food from Muggle > suppliers. So I got to thinking about where they get the food...and > then it hit me. > > House Elves (HE). I know that there's not really any evidence to back > it up but in my mind at least it makes perfect sense. The HE's must > be able to conjure up food from nothing. After all we know that their > magic doesn't go by the same rules as the witches and wizards in > Harry's world. That would also explain why there is no tuition to pay to attend Hogwarts ... low overhead? Angela From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 22:31:56 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:31:56 -0000 Subject: Harry's Shell In-Reply-To: <91s0lp+ovkv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920kos+64oi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7602 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote about Harry deliberately avoiding intimate relationships because he doesn't want to hurt the person by his death (the quote is below). I partly agree -- I feel sure that Harry is making the effort to avoid intimate relationships, not deliberately but by habit or reflex. I feel sure that his motive is not fear of the person being hurt if V kills him, but simply what he learned in Very Early Childhood: if you love someone, they vanish away forever (his Mum and Dad, his godfather....) and if you reach out lovingly to someone (little baby Harry to foster parent Dursleys), they punish you. Thus, even the complete defeat and elimination of V will not end Harry's avoidance behavior. Scott made the point that Harry didn't avoid asking Cho to the Ball in an effort to prevent her from being hurt by his death (as likely to occur in the Tournament, as we saw in Task I, as from V). To me, this is not a counter argument. To me, Harry does not *want* to have a personal relationship with Cho and would not have asked her to the Ball if he could have had his first choice, which was not to go to the Ball at all. To me, it seems very clear that Harry has only an aesthetic and distant interest in Cho: he likes to look at her because she's pretty; he doesn't want to talk to her or kiss her; he doesn't even want to FANTASIZE about kissing her (still less would he want to fantasize about more than kissing!). I can relate to that: I am an entirely heterosexual woman, but I spent most of my bus ride home today gazing admiringly (i.e. ogling) two girls who appeared to be sisters, who appeared to be high school age.... > Harry and everyone around must be aware at some level that he is > a "marked man," i.e., that he could be killed at any time. I think > that this fact will continue to keep Harry from entering into deep > relationships or giving too much of himself to another person > emotionally. By not caring too much for another person, he doesn't > risk hurting that person by his death. (snip) > The threat hanging over him will create sense of "unfinished > business" that will dominate Harry's life until Lord V is finally > dealt with. Harry won't be able to give himself completely to > anyone until he's able to stop looking out for what might be > sneaking up behind him. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 22:39:56 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:39:56 -0000 Subject: My two knuts worth In-Reply-To: <91v3c4+a291@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920l7s+3t92@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7603 - In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Leilani Webb" wrote: > I joined the group a few days ago and have nearly gone blind > perusing the archives. Here are some thoughts/comments. Forgive > me if they have been discussed. Most of these are topics which have been discussed. Maybe JKR put hints about them into her novels and the hints led to the discussion. Child abuse and who will Harry and Ron romance with are topics which have been discussed at such length that I started laughing at my own statement 'have been discussed.' > > 3. I think Dumbledore will turn out to be Harry's Grandfather. Besides JKR having said that that is too Star-Wars (as so many people have already posted), Dumbledore himself said that the Dursleys are the only relatives that Harry has left. Why would he have said that if he is Harry's Grandfather? (I disagree with the people who said he's too old. If Harry's parents' generation are 43 now, as I computed in a post which I think was titled Timeline, and AD is 150 now as JKR said in an on-line chat, he would have only been 106 at the operative time.) From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 22:53:17 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:53:17 -0000 Subject: The Kiss/Court of Love In-Reply-To: <91vcn8+63om@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920m0t+dlas@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7604 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Penny is looking forward to trying this case in the Court of > Romantic Justice (There's a fic! What if there was one?) Marie de Champagne (patronness of Chretien de Troyes, IIRC daughter of Henri IV and Catherine de Medici) had a Court of Love in her royal court. Insane tho' it sounds, some cases were actually tried. My mother told me of one in which a knight sued a lady to get a court order that she must love him. Because when he had asked for her love, she told him that she loved another man, but if she ever ceased to love that man, then she would love the plaintiff. His argument now was that the lady had married her former beloved, and therefore she no longer loves him because love is not possible in marriage, and therefore she must keep her promise to the plaintiff. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 22:57:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:57:21 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R; Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A43624D.973920B8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <920m8h+8l56@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7605 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > MERCHANDISE: I am delighted to report that I finally found the HP > pillowcases, which have Harry on one side & Hermione on the other, > yesterday! (snip) I mentioned that Ron seems to be pretty absent > from most of the WB merchandise. She shrugged and said, "Yeah, > he's pretty vanilla though. A follower. Harry & Hermione are the > exciting ones." Personally, *I* think the reason that so much merchandise shows Harry and Hermione but not Ron is that the WB marketting department believes merchandise must have a picture of a boy for boys to buy it and a picture of a girl for girls to buy it. Therefore, one boy (who is the eponym of the whole thing!) and one girl. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Dec 22 23:11:59 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:11:59 -0000 Subject: I just don't know about Ron In-Reply-To: <9203ib+n8pf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920n3v+68ta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7606 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Leilani Webb" wrote: > He becomes angry and jealous over situations that Harry has no > control over and he should be able to recognize that. He's just a child. I remember some things about being a teenager. Including frequently hurting each other very badly because of NOT KNOWING a better way to act, trying to figure out the best way to act but guessing wrong.... > With this history of fickleness, Ron could follow in the footsteps > of wormtail and betray Harry. My current theory is that Wormtail was not a traitor, not a coward, not resentful and jealous as a child. The betrayal took place in 1980? I attribute it to "my other car went up my nose" -- powder cocaine, madly fashionable at that time, changes the addict's personality, and gives the addict a HUGE need for money. From morine10 at aol.com Fri Dec 22 23:29:04 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:29:04 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: <17.f4e817f.27753dc0@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7607 In a message dated 12/21/00 7:16:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: > Yep. Hmm .... Ron was interested in Hermione in GoF. Are you > concurring that Hermione is Ron's Ms. Wrong based on JKR's statements > then? > No, Ron was interested in Fleur. Although he has them, he has not yet acknowledged any feelings for Hermione. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 23:36:03 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:36:03 -0000 Subject: Time Magazine article In-Reply-To: <91vthn+pomj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920oh3+r2u4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7608 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > I finally read the magazine over breakfast. It has an interesting > section within the Rowling article entitled 'The author on her own > work: "Harry is an old soul"'. In it, she briefly touches upon > Hermione's overachievement as compensation for her insecurities, > Harry's "need-to-know basis" behavior, and Ron's "classic 14 year > old" demeanor. > > She also writes that Harry, in GoF, was "too proud" to talk to Ron > about their problems and was "walking around thinking "I'm the one > with all the problems, but Ron had been a faithful friend for three > years, and I [Rowling] would have cut ron a little more slack." Hi Milz and all-- I haven't had time to read my Time yet, either, but I turned to the article you mentioned. Interesting. I wanted it to go on longer... but then, I always want to read more about the creator of these novels. She also mentioned Ginny. "And what about Ginny (Ron's sister)? Poor Ginny, languishing in love for Harry, and he's merrily asking out other girls right in front of her nose! But that's just a boy thing." Score one for the H/G folks, I guess. I hope we see more Ginny in future books, then... otherwise, I'll have a hard time with it. And if we H/Hers have said it once, we've said it a thousand times. Even if the canon ends H/R, H/G or nothing... we still will believe in post-canon H/H. And far be it from me to argue with the author, but I don't think Harry was the main one at fault during the disagreement in GoF. I think they both equally shared the blame... and after all, Ron started it. What should Harry have done, chased him around and begged him for his trust? I loved this article. Very refreshing break from the same old same old we usually get from spin machine about and from JKR. Wouldn't it be nice to actually chat with JKR about all these things in a grown- up format, instead of her answering the same 10-15 questions in every chat and every interview? --Ebony (who really likes Ron a lot better than she lets on) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 23:48:50 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:48:50 -0000 Subject: Harry and Ron's Argument (was Marty's Devil's Advocate Post) In-Reply-To: <91vtsf+b781@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920p92+uqus@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7609 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > I don't have my copy of GoF here (its out earning its living), but as I recall, Harry was thinking that "its much less fun, and much more hanging in the library" when Hermione is your best friend. That would imply that normally (when they're not not talking) Harry considers Ron his best friend. I thought this too upon first read. Here's the quote: ***** "I didn't start this," Harry said stubbornly. "It's his problem." "You miss him!" Hermione said impatiently. "And I know he misses you- -" "Miss him?" said Harry. "I don't miss him..." But this was a downright lie. Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend." --from GoF, pp. 316-317, 1st Amer. ed (Scholastic) ***** I don't take this as evidence that Hermione is not his best friend too. In Chapter Two, "The Scar", he first imagines Hermione's reaction to the pain in his scar. Then, "And so he tried to remember his *other* best friend, Ron Weasley's, reaction..." (21-22, emphasis mine) Our biases definitely color our readings. To be fair, it seems from GoF and interviews that JKR is setting up R/H. But I don't think H/H sentiment will disappear from the fandom... I still don't think Laurie and Amy were suited in *Little Women*, and will never believe that they were. Perhaps after Book 5's publication, we H/H folks will have to hear a lot of "I told you sos" though. That'll smart... I hate being mistaken. We'll just reply, "Good... let the relationship run its course... we know what's coming next." :) --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 22 23:54:17 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:54:17 -0000 Subject: Fanfic Idea (was Marty's Devil's Advocate Post) In-Reply-To: <3A438129.43B7CA74@swbell.net> Message-ID: <920pj9+eq25@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7610 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > Another question I forgot to add to my response to Neil's post: > > *** How did Ron feel when he & Hermione went to Dumbledore's office & > Ron learned that Hermione was Krum's treasure?? Wow, Penny--now *that's* a fanfic I'd like to read if it's well- written. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 00:01:46 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:01:46 -0000 Subject: Fanfic Ships (was Re: H/H v H/R) In-Reply-To: <9205kn+hj8j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920q1a+ouva@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7611 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > Having dabbled my toes in the fan fic waters, I have formed a > theory about why fic authors lean to H/H. > Harry is a romantic hero. Despite his down to earth character, he > has the glamour of his special destiny. Ron, on the other hand, is > "normal" . Writing about R/He, one has to work a lot harder to make > the relationship interesting. Does that make sense? Actually, in recent weeks, the R/H and D/H ships have dominated the fandom. I also think that there are some very good D/H fics and a growing number of R/H fics that are quite good... and R/H is emphatically *not* my ship of preference. I do indeed think that a R/H long-term (not just dating) relationship would be loads more "interesting" than H/H. Just not a whole lot of fun for one or both parties. The bliss of "happily ever after" is not nearly as interesting as "sturm und drang" and drama IMO. :) --Ebony (who will write everything *but* H/H as part of her strategy) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 00:06:43 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:06:43 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <9206jr+d70b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920qaj+mu8r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7612 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" wrote: Following in Ebony's footsteps, I thought I'd get the 14-year > old > perspective on the Harry/Hermione/Ron debate which fortunately > wasn't > difficult since my little cousins (14 and 13, the girls who got me > reading the Harry Potter books in the first place) were having a > sleepover party at my aunt's house yesterday... *Thanks*, Cassie. I laughed all the way through your post. I knew that my students weren't Roswell-type space aliens. And yesterday, we had yet *another* conversation about it, because some of my fifth graders are tackling GoF and were reading during last-day-before-vacation free time in my Writing Skills course. They're younger than my eighth graders, so I didn't post their ideas. But they pretty much have the same POV as their older peers. Hmm. Maybe American preteens/teens are different from the British variety when it comes to affairs of the heart... but I seriously doubt it. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 00:15:45 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:15:45 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <920asr+e87q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920qrh+207e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7613 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: Is it at all possible that Hermione could also be holding back feelings for Harry. I mean perhaps she thinks that Harry's attracted to her but she's not sure, thinking perhaps along the lines that Harry is afraid to show his feelings b/c of his situation. Maybe she is making an effort to care about Harry from a distance as not to put him in an uncomfortable situation an not to offend Ron. Thanks, Scott. That's another problem with our ship... Ron's reaction. The fics always have to deal with the question "What do we do with Ron?" Most of them, I'll admit, either take Ron OOC or match him with Lavender/Fleur/American exchange student or someone equally ill-suited to him. He deserves better! The better-written H/H stories deal with it in various ways. In PoU/ASA/TSTNE, Ron is a non-issue. In DD/DS, he doesn't figure into the equation (forgive me if I'm wrong, but in the backstory didn't he and Hermione date and it didn't work out?). In Alicia/Sue's fics, the characters are middle-aged adults and the issue is not so immediate. And so on... Your observation is exactly why H/H is impossible in canon at this point (the end of GoF). Even if Harry *did* have any feelings for Hermione, you'd better believe he'd face a hundred Dementors before he'd reveal them. And vice versa. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 00:20:28 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:20:28 -0000 Subject: Harry's Shell In-Reply-To: <920kos+64oi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920r4c+fgv6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7614 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: To me, it seems very clear that Harry has only an aesthetic and distant interest in Cho: he likes to look at her because she's pretty; he doesn't want to talk to her or kiss her; he doesn't even want to FANTASIZE about kissing her (still less would he want to fantasize about more than kissing!). Hi Rita and all: I didn't comment much on the "Abuse" thread back in the early fall, but I found it fascinating. Do you think that his past (and V. breathing down his neck) may be the reason why he's not thinking about "kissing, etc." yet? Fascinating point you've made here... --Ebony From Aprilsong at aol.com Sat Dec 23 00:28:27 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:28:27 -0000 Subject: Influencing the Future? Message-ID: <920rjb+9n6m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7615 Does anyone know if the author reads these pages? If she does, do you think it's possible that our discussions could influence her writings? Let's say that the majority favor a union between Harry and Hermione. Might JKR not twist in a different direction, for fun, just to prove them wrong? Has anyone considered that what we discuss might change the events in the next three volumes? From Aprilsong at aol.com Sat Dec 23 00:34:48 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:34:48 -0000 Subject: Harry's Shell In-Reply-To: <920r4c+fgv6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920rv8+s4fq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7616 > I didn't comment much on the "Abuse" thread back in the early fall, > but I found it fascinating. Do you think that his past (and V. > breathing down his neck) may be the reason why he's not thinking > about "kissing, etc." yet? Fascinating point you've made here... > > --Ebony And consider this...Harry was almost kissed by a dementor! That would put anyone off! From ABoyko at starchoice.com Sat Dec 23 00:41:06 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:41:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's Shell Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDF0@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7617 > -----Original Message----- > From: Leilani Webb [SMTP:Aprilsong at aol.com] > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 8:35 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's Shell > > > > I didn't comment much on the "Abuse" thread back in the early fall, > > but I found it fascinating. Do you think that his past (and V. > > breathing down his neck) may be the reason why he's not thinking > > about "kissing, etc." yet? Fascinating point you've made here... > > > > --Ebony > > And consider this...Harry was almost kissed by a dementor! That > would put anyone off! Thinking back to my own dysfunctional upbringing, I wasn't used to physical contact like hugs. I remember my friend hugging me at my graduation, and me not knowing how to react. Now, I'm able to give and receive hugs freely, but it took a lot of work to get there. I wanted to cry when Mrs. Weasley hugged Harry like a mother, at the end of GoF. I don't see Aunt Petunia being so warm. I'm glad that Harry was able to receive the hug and take comfort from it. Angela From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sat Dec 23 01:14:59 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:14:59 -0000 Subject: Fanfic Ships (was Re: H/H v H/R) In-Reply-To: <920q1a+ouva@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <920uaj+cgeo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7618 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > > Having dabbled my toes in the fan fic waters, I have formed a > > theory about why fic authors lean to H/H. Harry is a romantic hero. Despite his down to earth character, he has the glamour of his special destiny. Ron, on the other hand, is "normal" . Writing about R/He, one has to work a lot harder to make the relationship interesting. Does that make sense? > > Actually, in recent weeks, the R/H and D/H ships have dominated the > fandom. I also think that there are some very good D/H fics and a > growing number of R/H fics that are quite good... and R/H is > emphatically *not* my ship of preference. ------------------------------------- I've noticed that the R/H ship has been dominating the fandom lately, at least in terms of quantity, if emphaitically *not* in terms of quality. It has always seemed to me that for some reason the older/more experienced fandom writers tend to write H/H, H/D or no ship at all, while the R/H ship has been left to the much younger writers and consequently most of them are terrible. I recall way back on this egroup someone (maybe Penny?) having a theory as to why that was, but not what the theory was. Lately, thanks to you (Ebony), B. Bennett, morgead, and a few others, there have finally been some really good and readable R/H fics out there. *ponders* On the plus side with R/H, you don't have to deal with the "How would Ron react" problem that you do when writing H/H , but then again on the minus side Ron lacks that special glamour that Harry, as the hero, has, (hides while Ron fans scream) and so you have to work a lot harder to make the story not just cuddly but actually interesting. And with that, I will once again retire to my asbestos igloo... Cassie From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 02:34:47 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:34:47 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: I just don't know about Ron Message-ID: <01C06CE5.2909E9C0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7619 > With this history of fickleness, Ron could follow in the footsteps > of wormtail and betray Harry. My current theory is that Wormtail was not a traitor, not a coward, not resentful and jealous as a child. The betrayal took place in 1980? I attribute it to "my other car went up my nose" -- powder cocaine, madly fashionable at that time, changes the addict's personality, and gives the addict a HUGE need for money. Interesting theory Rita , any back up from the cannon? I think his subsequent behaviour suggests that if didn't start out traitorous and cowardly he has learnt good by now storm -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 9:12 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: I just don't know about Ron --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Leilani Webb" wrote: > He becomes angry and jealous over situations that Harry has no > control over and he should be able to recognize that. He's just a child. I remember some things about being a teenager. Including frequently hurting each other very badly because of NOT KNOWING a better way to act, trying to figure out the best way to act but guessing wrong.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From s_ings at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 02:29:59 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:29:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merry Christmas Message-ID: <20001223022959.24668.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7620 I am leaving early tomorrow morning on vacation. I just wanted to post a quick note and wish all of you very joyous holiday season. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 02:31:55 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 02:31:55 -0000 Subject: Pre-Hogwarts education and the Weasleys Message-ID: <9212qr+pi69@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7621 OK, I just thought of this last night when I was waiting to drop off to sleep; Given the Weasley parents' attitudes towards Muggles and Muggle culture (not to mention the number of kids underfoot!), why didn't the Weasleys send their kids to a Muggle primary school? (Or, if they have, how did Ron come out of it still not knowing how to use a telephone?) From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 23 02:27:54 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:27:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My two knuts worth Message-ID: <200012230233.eBN2XgU09996@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7622 > 5. The descriptions of relationships of house elves to their >masters sometimes sounds uncomfortably erotic. "She bound him to her >with her own special brand of magic". Ewww. Now, I am sure this is an element of house-elf enslavement that Hermione hasn't thought of! Kathy From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Dec 23 02:21:09 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:21:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Influencing the Future? References: <920rjb+9n6m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007f01c06c87$040e3a80$fa69d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7623 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leilani Webb" > Does anyone know if the author reads these pages? If she does, do > you think it's possible that our discussions could influence her > writings? Let's say that the majority favor a union between Harry > and Hermione. Might JKR not twist in a different direction, for fun, > just to prove them wrong? Has anyone considered that what we discuss > might change the events in the next three volumes? > One thing JKR has said repeatedly was that she is writing the story that she wants to write. I to think that she is not unduly influenced by various discussions. She has also said that she has the basic plot for all the books outlined. I wish she'd just tune in and answer all our questions...but if she did that, what would we talk about for the next 2 years! carole From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 02:45:43 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:45:43 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and ambition Message-ID: <01C06CE6.ADC4AF00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7624 Hey everyone - Naana said: > Are they? I think not. Both Harry and Hermione are ambitious in > their own domains) and highly insecure. They both continually need to > prove themselves. They would *not* be good for each other as a > couple. OTOH, Ron's stability, cheerfulness and lack of intense > ambition makes him very suitable to be Hermione's mate in life. Penny said OMG -- are we reading the same books? Ron's "lack of intense ambition"???? He's *the* most ambitious character in the series in my book. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in GoF IMO. He's far more ambitious than surface-level ambitious Percy. Ron is incredibly insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own insecurities but Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what either H or H demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better than everyone around him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of Erised -- himself, standing alone, more successful & admired than any of his friends & family. Well .... all I can say is we have a very different perspective on Ron. I don't see him as stable, cheerful or unambitious. Completely the opposite in my book. Ron has lots of great qualities, but a healthy level of ambition is not one of them (IMO). This is brilliant! I never saw ron this way before, or at least I guess I was aware that he had these conflicting motivations but I never thought it out. Great insight from both of you (I think that on some level you are both right is what I am trying to say). Ron has to be self-effacing and unambitious because he has no chance to shine, to be important, it would only (and probably it) frustrating to be ambitious so he represses whenever possible storm -----Original Message----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer [SMTP:pennylin at swbell.net] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 2:07 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 23 02:40:54 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:40:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post Message-ID: <200012230246.eBN2khU11618@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7625 Penny wrote: >I think she dated Krum because he paid romantic attention to her. She >had gotten to know him in the library after all, and discovered that he >didn't enjoy having the gaggle of girls fawning all over him. She got >to know him as a person and liked what she saw well enough to accept a >date with him. I don't think she did it to goad either boy into >anything. I think she just wanted to be noticed as a girl, and Krum >noticed her in that way. And, she got to go to the Yule Ball. Pretty >evident that neither Ron nor Harry would have thought to ask her, except >as a last resort. So, she was probably smart to go with Krum. It was >her first real date, and she must have enjoyed the whole ritual of >getting all dressed up as she took 3 hrs to do so! > Well I know Penny will never agree with this, but I am fully convinced that Hermione was half-hoping that Ron would ask her (maybe even kind of assuming he would). In my universe, Krum asked her very early on and she told him she would have to think about it (still hoping that Ron would ask her) and then when Ron made that remark about "getting stuck with a pair of trolls", her reaction was feminist indignation combined with anger and disappointment at the realization that Ron wasn't even thinking about asking her. Then she said yes to Viktor. (Hey, if the H/H people can make stuff up, why can't I?) Kathy From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 23 02:42:25 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:42:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Delurking in defense of Ron Message-ID: <200012230248.eBN2mEU11799@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7626 Hey! I have been closely following "A Muggle Summer"! It's very good. (All you R/H people here--all 3 of you--head over to ff.net and find it.) I especially liked the "Food fight" section--very cute! Kathy >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan > wrote: >> Well said! >> >> Are your R/H fics on fanfiction.net? Titles, please? >> >> Kathy > >Well, if you are interested...I have posted one just about Harry >called "A Sirius Visit" The R/H one I am writing is "A Muggle Summer" > There are 12 chapters posted so far (20 in all) > >My friend Arabella has written several - Awakenings is quite a good >one. > >The website that we are going to announce officially right after New >Years is dedicated to fan fiction and our own "interpretations" of the >stories, so hopefully there will be lots more R/Hr stuff out there in >one place! > >:)Zsenya > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 23 02:43:52 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:43:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post Message-ID: <200012230249.eBN2ngU12025@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7627 > >*** How did Ron feel when he & Hermione went to Dumbledore's office & >Ron learned that Hermione was Krum's treasure?? > >Penny > Now THAT is a fanfic waiting to happen! Kathy (Help! I'm posting and I can't shut up!) From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 02:52:25 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 02:52:25 -0000 Subject: My two knuts worth In-Reply-To: <91vecf+qmkr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <921419+updu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7628 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Responding to Leilani, who said: > > You've raised some interesting questions. Can I register a quick `no' > vote on Grandpa Dumbledore Me too; you could start an entire thread on the similarities between HP and Star Wars; particularly if you look at the SW novels as well. Luke seems to be turning into a Dumbledore without the eccentricity as the years wear on; Borsk Fey'lya and Cornelius Fudge are near- clones; and Harry and Anakin Solo show a remarkable resemblance to each other which is all the more interesting given their wildly different backgrounds. > <<<1. Harry does not receive the accolades he deserves for the > amazing feats he has performed. After all, he has overcome evil > personified and preserved the very existence of wizards and muggles > alike, several times now. He should at least get his own room at > Hogwarts.>>> > > Cosseting Harry by giving him a room of his own surely wouldn't fit > Dumbledore's apparent plan to toughen Harry up for his future role. > He would want to develop humility and modesty, as well as strength > and talent, in his prot?g?. More to the point, I think Harry would > view a single room as a penance rather than a luxury, as it would > isolate him from his friends and give the other students (especially > Ron) even more reason to resent his fame and fortune. > This ties in with #s 1 and 2; Harry wouldn't want his own room, because the only times he's slept alone in his conscious memory, was with the Dursleys. That's why the whole PoU-based subgenre of H/H as platonic roommates for YEARS seems to work so well; Harry, while afraid to open up, has a definite distaste for living alone. > <<<2. The Dursleys are child abusers. You would think someone in > the neighborhood or a teacher would have recognized that and turned > them in before Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts.>>> I'm beginning to have an idea for a fanfic, here; what would Harry's life be like if the Dursleys were normal? How would he and Dudley be different? Two points that were brought up in the Sep/Oct. Abuse thread were 1)Dudley being a bully anyway, and 2) Harry being tempted to turn his back on his destiny and go home to the Muggles. Trick is, it's hard to take a well-written, three-dimensional character, modify his entire childhood, and have said character come out recognizeable. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 03:01:19 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:01:19 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A map of Hogwarts. . . Message-ID: <01C06CE9.85369320.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7629 Hey - this sounds great, Does anybody know if it reproduced on-line somewhere? Thanks storm -----Original Message----- From: Odile [SMTP:oalburquerque at hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 4:17 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A map of Hogwarts. . . yes this was the map i was looking for. thanks a bunch everyone. Merry Christmas! odile In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "lrcjestes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Odile " > > Awhile ago, before reading any of the Harry Potter books, I came > across this map of Hogwarts (complete, with the forbidden Forest, the > lake, everything) in a weekly US magazine (and, of course, > illustrated by Mary GrandPre). Do any of you remember which magazine? > > ********************* > > There was one in Time magazine from September 20, 1999. That had all the > hotspots...Hogwarts, platform 9 3/4, the forbidden forest, Hagrid's cabin, > Hogsmead, Diagon Alley, and the Durseley's. I'm not sure that is the one you > are thinking of. Perhaps some of our more collector types would know? > > carole > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 03:04:06 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:04:06 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R Message-ID: <01C06CE9.892BC220.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7630 LOL! This is great Cassie, a real insight storm -----Original Message----- From: Cassandra Claire [SMTP:cassandraclaire at mail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 4:30 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Penny wrote: " I'm with > Ebony's students -- I think there's more to it than "my best friend just > went through this terrible tragedy." That might be all there is to it, > but I'll go with the 14 yr olds with that one." Following in Ebony's footsteps, I thought I'd get the 14-year old perspective on the Harry/Hermione/Ron debate which fortunately wasn't difficult since my little cousins (14 and 13, the girls who got me reading the Harry Potter books in the first place) were having a sleepover party at my aunt's house yesterday. I sallied forth and asked them what they thought of "The Kiss" at the end of GoF. Responses follow. (I've cleaned up the diction a bit, since there were a lot of `likes' and `totally's - my journalism training proving useful for once.) Cassie: So Hermione kissed Harry at the very end of GoF. What do we think this means? Cousins & friends: She likes him. Cassie: But couldn't she just have kissed him because he's her best friend, he's just been through a terrible ordeal, and she's fearful for his safety? Cousins (looking at Cassie as if she's the dimmest thing they've ever laid eyes on): No way. She totally likes him. Cassie: But wouldn't you feel awkward kissing a guy who really liked out of the blue like that, even if it was on the cheek? Cousins: Not in that sort of situation, with parents around and everyone saying goodbye and everything, because there wouldn't be potential for it to get awkward. (Cassie must admit that this has never occurred to her.) Cassie: Does Harry like Hermione? Cousins (after whispered conference): No, not yet. He likes Cho. Ron's the one that likes Hermione. Cassie: So Ron likes Hermione, but Hermione likes Harry? What about Ron's feelings?! Cousins: (with the true heartlessness of teenage girls) Well, that's his problem, isn't it? Suddenly glad I am * not * a teenage boy, Cassie To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 03:06:09 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:06:09 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R; Merchandise Message-ID: <01C06CE9.8D3340A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7631 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > MERCHANDISE: I am delighted to report that I finally found the HP > pillowcases, which have Harry on one side & Hermione on the other, > yesterday! (snip) I mentioned that Ron seems to be pretty absent > from most of the WB merchandise. She shrugged and said, "Yeah, > he's pretty vanilla though. A follower. Harry & Hermione are the > exciting ones." Personally, *I* think the reason that so much merchandise shows Harry and Hermione but not Ron is that the WB marketting department believes merchandise must have a picture of a boy for boys to buy it and a picture of a girl for girls to buy it. Therefore, one boy (who is the eponym of the whole thing!) and one girl. I think it has to do with a deeper prejudices against people with red hair! (not to mention the pillow slips only have two sides) (brown-haired) storm -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 8:57 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R; Merchandise To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 03:16:02 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:16:02 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron and Harry!! Message-ID: <01C06CEA.E7D4BD80.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7632 Susan McGee wrote: > Of course she is, Amanda. Well, what relevance does Harry and Cho > have to the story, then? As I said in a different post: I'm anti-distraction-for-the-sake-of-principle. If JKR's plot involves awareness of feelings as a motivation or a distraction, then that *is* relevant and just fine with me. What this means is I don't think JKR should be doing anything but telling the story she wants to tell. Harry's feelings and reactions to Cho have a bearing on his behaviour, and hence are relevant to the story. The developing emotional maturity of several characters, and their interaction, will doubtless be relevant. What I object to is any whisper of the thought that JKR (or any other author), because of her success, must then begin to alter her creation to fit or attempt to alter social norms. The idea that because she's so well read, she should "use" her position to influence attitudes. She would stop being the storyteller, start being the manipulator, and it would make the tale she tells feel inauthentic, artificial. Sort of like the artificial-feeling section where Hermione's explaining how to say her name; that felt like something stuck in, not relevant, that JKR put in for a non-story-related reason. Again, I hope I'm making sense. --Amanda Penny addressed this issue very eloquently in message entitled 're: the gay question' back on 19 October. Sorry I don't have the number. storm -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [SMTP:editor at texas.net] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 2:14 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron and Harry!! From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 23 03:22:53 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:22:53 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs Message-ID: <01C06CEB.DAE92240.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7633 >I think it's the same thing that animates the painted pictures, >like Sir Cadogon & >the Fat Lady in the castle. Sir Cadogan, the Fat Lady and I guess the mermaid in the prefect's bathroom might have a slight difference. They actually talk and interact with the outside world. Hmm... I just had an image of Harry talking to his parent's photos... the possibilities! Nathan Yes, se this is where the whole grief process stuff was leading me ... maybe only images of that are not of real people can be enchanted to talk and so on. Otherwise the sleeping ex-heads in Dumbledore's office would keep him awake with advice. storm -----Original Message----- From: Nathan [SMTP:duo at dangerous-minds.com] Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:14 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Photographs To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Dec 23 03:17:55 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:17:55 -0000 Subject: Time Magazine article In-Reply-To: <920oh3+r2u4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9215h3+bi6s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7634 For those of you who don't have access to the magazine (and because I couldn't remember if the link was posted or not) here ya go: http://www.time.com/time/poy2000/mag/rowling.html Happy Holidays. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 03:25:33 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:25:33 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <91vcn8+63om@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9215vd+8dli@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7635 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Far be it for me to challenge you, Ebony. I'm a Ginny/Harry shipper > and I have no support from JKR whatsoever, at least from Harry's side. Jim, I've been reading the 'shipping threads with great interest, in part because I love all things Weasley and it pains me to think that any of them (especially the love of my inner child's life, Ron) might not end up completely, blissfully happy with their lives. If any of them have to have something less than pleasant in their lives or their characters, I'm hoping it's Percy, who I actually do feel a great deal of sympathy for, but am not as attached to for obvious reasons. So I'm loving the idea of Harry and Ginny, as that (in my mind) makes everything work out for the best for all of my favorite people, and they all can live happy ever after in one big happy family-type group. Here's what's drifted into my head in relation to this idea: If Harry and Hermione were to end up together, Ron would be on the outside of the threesome and it would ruin the great balance of the friendships the three of them have. With Ron and Hermione together, there would not be this lopsidedness, if only because Harry is the protagonist, and thus not likely to be marginalized. Plus Harry and Hermione together, as a muggle-born and a muggle-raised, would be on the fringes of the wizarding world in regards to culture and tradition. However if it is Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, everyone's happy. Harry gets not only a girl who adores him (and I'm hoping for some proof in the future that she's worthy of him as well, since she's not very fleshed-out yet), he also gets the family he's always lacked, and who have specifically shown him the only familial love he's ever had. He (and Hermione both, this way) gets to be an insider in the whole wizard culture for the first time, as he's joining a big old wizarding family. He also (what could be better?) gets his two best friends as brother and sister-in-law, and everyone can gather together at the Burrow for wonderful family holidays. It's just so perfect! To me it's like the pieces of a puzzle fitting together - sure, you can force pieces into other places, but the picture doesn't end up nearly as pretty. I'm hoping that if this isn't the way it goes, that nobody will be paired up when the series ends. After all, I supposed it'd be nice to allow the kids to grow up before they choose their lifelong mates. But if I had my way.... Dreaming, kimberly From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 03:18:58 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:18:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post References: <200012230246.eBN2khU11618@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A4419A2.8DBF5A41@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7636 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Hey, if the H/H people can make stuff up, why can't I?) Can I ask what you think we (the H/H people) have made up? I know I've jokingly used Rita's "in my universe" phrase, but I've always made it abundantly clear that it was something that was pure speculation & a joke in some instances. My H/H theories are in general at least what a lawyer would call "can be argued with a straight face" (i.e., not "made up"). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 03:50:44 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:50:44 -0000 Subject: The thing he'd miss most In-Reply-To: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9217ek+qe8d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7637 Well, I've gotten started, and I can't stop. Two posts from me not only in one day, but within moments! But I'm catching up with these posts finally! I just wanted to toss out here that perhaps Ron was Harry's 'thing he'd miss most' specifically because of what had happened that term. Their whole fight may well have made him realize how important his best friend was to him. Many of us can't actually remember the first friend we ever had, as we were not deprived of the privilege of having friends for 11 years. As the first friend Harry ever had, Ron would be a terrible, horrible thing to loose, but I don't think that makes him a love interest. At least not for Harry. Sorry, I'll try to keep my trap shut for a little while now. kimberly From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 03:36:55 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:36:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R References: <9206jr+d70b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A441DD7.D583436E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7638 Hi -- Cassandra Claire wrote: > Following in Ebony's footsteps, I thought I'd get the 14-year > old perspective on the Harry/Hermione/Ron debate which fortunately > wasn't difficult since my little cousins I loved your dialogue with your cousins Cassie -- thanks for sharing! I was hoping I wouldn't be out here all alone with the H/H arguments (thanks also to Carole & Ebony for chiming in as always). Another solicited opinion on the "Kiss": my sister has read & enjoyed the HP books. She's by no means obsessed and would never join an internet discussion group. She's read no fanfic (even mine) and I'd never asked her opinions about the whole "shipper" debates. She's 30 so not exactly the 14 yr old opinions we've had from Ebony & Cassie but all the same.... I said, "remember the kiss at the end of the last book, you know when Hermione did something she'd never done before & kissed Harry on the cheek as they said goodbyes at the station. Insignificant detail? Or does it mean something do you think?" She shrugged and said, "Oh, well of course Hermione likes Harry. I thought that from like the 2nd book." Me: "what about Ron?" Her: "Well, clearly Ron likes Hermione. But, Hermione likes Harry. It's a triangle." I said, oh well, everyone's pretty divided on the whole romance issue. Her: "There are actually people who think Hermione & Ron will end up together? (incredulous tone) So, it's possible to have a Farmer in the Dell mentality without any real deep "searching" beyond the surface. She's read each book once, and like I said, is in no way obsessed. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 03:41:00 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:41:00 -0600 Subject: Merchandise References: <920m8h+8l56@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A441ECC.1895D670@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7639 Hi -- Rita Winston wrote: > Personally, *I* think the reason that so much merchandise shows > Harry and Hermione but not Ron is that the WB marketting department > believes merchandise must have a picture of a boy for boys to buy it > and a picture of a girl for girls to buy it. Therefore, one boy (who > is the eponym of the whole thing!) and one girl. That's what my husband says too. Maybe so .... I'm no marketing guru. But, I like the subliminal message of H/H all the same. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 03:39:46 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:39:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R References: <920asr+e87q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A441E82.8C023F54@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7640 Hi -- Scott wrote: > I agree that Ron is quite ambitious, as much as, if not more than > Percy. But Ron doesn't realise it. Does he? I mean he says that Percy > would turn against the family (or something like that) as not to > break the rules. Percy knows what he wants and is actively trying to > persue that goal. Ron however wants to be recognized but has no idea > how to go about it. He doesn't even vent his ambition in a healthy > way but instead bubbles with anger and burst out at his friends like > a tea kettle left on a burner and forgotten. IMO at least Ron's type > of ambition is far more dangerous. That's what I think too Scott -- I like your tea kettle analogy. He is prone to outbursts, and like you said, he doesn't recognize his own ambition at all. Thanks to Scott also for H/H defense (I forgot to mention you in my last message -- sorry!). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 03:44:37 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:44:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Influencing the Future? References: <920rjb+9n6m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A441FA5.115FB521@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7641 Hi -- Leilani Webb wrote: > Does anyone know if the author reads these pages? If she does, do > you think it's possible that our discussions could influence her > writings? Let's say that the majority favor a union between Harry > and Hermione. Might JKR not twist in a different direction, for fun, > just to prove them wrong? Has anyone considered that what we discuss > might change the events in the next three volumes? I think she knows where she's going as far as the big picture. I doubt she would change direction entirely, not in any major way. She may throw in some things (like how to pronounce Hermione, or to show Harry buying gifts for others to counter the charge that he's a cheapskate) in response to fan questions or comments. I don't think she has the time or energy to keep up with this group in particular. *I* can barely keep up with us. I would *love* if she would take a look at our FAQs when they are done, the "Mysteries & Inconsistencies" one in particular. I am considering forwarding her a letter with a copy of that one in particular. Maybe some of our questions could thus be answered or addressed in some way in a later book. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 23 04:14:22 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:14:22 -0000 Subject: Harry's Shell In-Reply-To: <920r4c+fgv6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9218qu+pd7j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7642 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > I didn't comment much on the "Abuse" thread back in the early fall, > but I found it fascinating. Do you think that his past (and V. > breathing down his neck) may be the reason why he's not thinking > about "kissing, etc." yet? Fascinating point you've made here... Oh, yes. *I* think that having lost his parents so early and being handed over to strangers, those strangers would have had to be rather perfect for him not to develop a fear of intimacy. As those strangers were the opposite of rather perfect, it's more surprising that he's able to be *friends* with Ron and Hermione than that he hasn't warmed up to other nice people as friend and he's hiding from romance. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 23 04:20:43 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:20:43 -0000 Subject: I just don't know about Ron In-Reply-To: <01C06CE5.2909E9C0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <92196r+ui89@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7643 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Interesting theory Rita [my theory that Wormtail turned bad because of cocaine addiction] > any back up from the cannon? Nothing, except that he was Sorted into Gryffindor, and he became an Animagus, and he never 'ratted' about their monthly excursions. All of which STRONGLY SUGGESTS that he was NOT A COWARD. > I think his subsequent behaviour suggests that if didn't start out > traitorous and cowardly he has learnt good by now I think that associating with Voldemort is a GOOD WAY to learn treachery and cowardice. Would spending 12 solid years as a rat also teach those? From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 04:36:45 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:36:45 -0000 Subject: Wizard Paintings (was Wizard Photographs) In-Reply-To: <01C06CEB.DAE92240.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <921a4t+uigc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7644 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: "I think it's the same thing that animates the painted pictures, like Sir Cadogon & the Fat Lady in the castle." "Sir Cadogan, the Fat Lady and I guess the mermaid in the prefect's bathroom might have a slight difference. They actually talk and interact with the outside world." The thing about wizard paintings is that they CAN interact with Harry's world which makes me wonder whether the people depicted in them were ever real. If so was a seperate entity created when the portrait was painted? The most likely solution to me is that the paintings are created as individuals, and the pictures are just copies of others. Scott Who has been making Peanut Butter Chocolate Candy for his neighbours and is quite sick of dipping the little balls into the melted chocolate over and over and over and over and... ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 23 04:41:05 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:41:05 -0000 Subject: Pre-Hogwarts education and the Weasleys In-Reply-To: <9212qr+pi69@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <921ad1+tnts@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7645 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > Given the Weasley parents' attitudes towards Muggles and Muggle > culture (not to mention the number of kids underfoot!), why > didn't the Weasleys send their kids to a Muggle primary school? 1) Arthur and Molly seem SO IGNORANT of Muggle culture that it would be incredibly difficult for them to figure out HOW to enroll their child in a Muggle school, buy Muggle school supplies, etc. I really believe that MOST wizarding folk are not as ignorant of Muggle culture as the Weasleys are. 2) Arthur's fondness for Muggles is a patronizing kind of fondness. For example, when explaining the Muggle-repellent spells around the World Cup stadium in GoF, he remembers to follow up his remarks about Muggles with something like "Bless their little hearts". When he asked Harry about electricity and telephones, his commented was "Amazing how they've been able to get along without magic." Thus, from him to send his CHILDREN to be educated by Muggle would be like an American business person in a Third World country who admires the local people for their folk songs, their handicrafts, their friendliness to strangers, sending hisir children to be educated by the local people in folk songs, handicrafts, food gardening, forest hunting instead of sending them to a school that would teach them the courses required for college admission, like chemistry and calculus. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 23 04:41:21 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:41:21 -0000 Subject: Lit Crit In-Reply-To: <3A419A04.6B7CD99E@wicca.net> Message-ID: <921adh+98ak@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7646 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > > > Catlady cried from her heart: > > It doesn't teach us why some stories are objects of beauty that take > one's > > breath away and last 'forever' and why other stories are loved in one > era and > > considered unreadable garbage by other eras. And it doesn't teach us > anything > > about the human condition: not about honor, not about envy, not about > battle > > fatigue.... > > Which is working up to, somewhere in this post, I will ask you what > is that > > lit-crit stuff good for? > Perhaps no one so eloquently defended the critic's role as did Oscar Wilde - his dialogue "The Critic as Artist" gives an excellent exposition of his view. A couple of excerpts: ERNEST. But is Criticism really a creative art? GILBERT. Why should it not be? It works with materials, and puts them into a form that is at once new and delightful. What more can one say of poetry? Indeed, I would call criticism a creation within a creation. For just as the great artists, from Homer and AEschylus, down to Shakespeare and Keats, did not go directly to life for their subject-matter, but sought for it in myth, and legend, and ancient tale, so the critic deals with materials that others have, as it were, purified for him, and to which imaginative form and colour have been already added. Nay, more, I would say that the highest Criticism, being the purest form of personal impression, is in its way more creative than creation, as it has least reference to any standard external to itself, and is, in fact, its own reason for existing, and, as the Greeks would put it, in itself, and to itself, an end. Certainly, it is never trammelled by any shackles of verisimilitude. No ignoble considerations of probability, that cowardly concession to the tedious repetitions of domestic or public life, affect it ever. One may appeal from fiction unto fact. But from the soul there is no appeal . GILBERT. Yes; the critic will be an interpreter, if he chooses. He can pass from his synthetic impression of the work of art as a whole, to an analysis or exposition of the work itself, and in this lower sphere, as I hold it to be, there are many delightful things to be said and done. Yet his object will not always be to explain the work of art. He may seek rather to deepen its mystery, to raise round it, and round its maker, that mist of wonder which is dear to both gods and worshippers alike. Ordinary people are 'terribly at ease in Zion.' They propose to walk arm in arm with the poets, and have a glib ignorant way of saying, 'Why should we read what is written about Shakespeare and Milton? We can read the plays and the poems. That is enough.' But an appreciation of Milton is, as the late Rector of Lincoln remarked once, the reward of consummate scholarship. And he who desires to understand Shakespeare truly must understand the relations in which Shakespeare stood to the Renaissance and the Reformation, to the age of Elizabeth and the age of James; he must be familiar with the history of the struggle for supremacy between the old classical forms and the new spirit of romance, between the school of Sidney, and Daniel, and Johnson, and the school of Marlowe and Marlowe's greater son; he must know the materials that were at Shakespeare's disposal, and the method in which he used them, and the conditions of theatric presentation in the sixteenth and seventeenth century, their limitations and their opportunities for freedom, and the literary criticism of Shakespeare's day, its aims and modes and canons; he must study the English language in its progress, and blank or rhymed verse in its various developments; he must study the Greek drama, and the connection between the art of the creator of the Agamemnon and the art of the creator of Macbeth; in a word, he must be able to bind Elizabethan London to the Athens of Pericles, and to learn Shakespeare's true position in the history of European drama and the drama of the world. The critic will certainly be an interpreter, but he will not treat Art as a riddling Sphinx, whose shallow secret may be guessed and revealed by one whose feet are wounded and who knows not his name. Rather, he will look upon Art as a goddess whose mystery it is his province to intensify, and whose majesty his privilege to make more marvellous in the eyes of men. And here, Ernest, this strange thing happens. The critic will indeed be an interpreter, but he will not be an interpreter in the sense of one who simply repeats in another form a message that has been put into his lips to say. For, just as it is only by contact with the art of foreign nations that the art of a country gains that individual and separate life that we call nationality, so, by curious inversion, it is only by intensifying his own personality that the critic can interpret the personality and work of others, and the more strongly this personality enters into the interpretation the more real the interpretation becomes, the more satisfying, the more convincing, and the more true. ERNEST. I would have said that personality would have been a disturbing element. GILBERT. No; it is an element of revelation. If you wish to understand others you must intensify your own individualism..... The entire dialogue, and much else in a similar vein, is available at the Project Gutenberg site - the above dialogue is bundled into a collection titled Intentions http://www.gutenberg.net - CMC From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 04:27:43 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:27:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fanfic Ships (was Re: H/H v H/R) References: <920uaj+cgeo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4429BF.CAD8B604@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7647 Hi -- Cassandra Claire wrote: > I've noticed that the R/H ship has been dominating the fandom lately, > at least in terms of quantity, if emphaitically *not* in terms of > quality. It has always seemed to me that for some reason the > older/more experienced fandom writers tend to write H/H, H/D or no > ship at all, while the R/H ship has been left to the much younger > writers and consequently most of them are terrible. I recall way back > on this egroup someone (maybe Penny?) having a theory as to why that > was, but not what the theory was. I think it was Simon with that theory -- not me. I have in the past echoed bascially what you just said Cassie -- that older fans tend toward H/H and the younger set tend toward R/H. I was treated to lots of flames in response (another listserve), despite the fact that I had emphasized that it was a general observation on my part & not a very scientific one at that. I still agree with you in that my general observation is that older HP fans tend to favor H/H more often than R/H. I don't have any theories as to why this might be so .... and I can't recall exactly what Simon said (although I'm fairly certain it was him who had a theory of sorts). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Aprilsong at aol.com Sat Dec 23 05:52:53 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 05:52:53 -0000 Subject: Influencing the Future? In-Reply-To: <3A441FA5.115FB521@swbell.net> Message-ID: <921ejl+4dl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7648 > I don't think she has the time or energy to keep up with this group in > particular. *I* can barely keep up with us. > Penny Even though she has become quite prolific in a short amount of time, JKR is still newish at this "famous author" role. I would guess that, of course, she looks at all of the HP pages and especially this one since our views are so unique. I would. From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Dec 23 06:37:35 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 06:37:35 -0000 Subject: Solstice Greetings - from John In-Reply-To: <20001221135739.18177.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <921h7f+torq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7649 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Thu, 21 December 2000, john at w... wrote: > > > > > Hello! John has just sent you a greeting card from Bluemountain.com. > Bright blessings on all at the Solstice -- may the light prevail! susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Dec 23 06:45:22 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 06:45:22 -0000 Subject: socks Message-ID: <921hm2+10m3u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7650 Given that Professor Dumbledore states that if he saw himself in the Mirror of Erised, he would be holding a pair of thick wool socks, might he have been a house elf? Perhaps there is a progressions where House Elf becomes Wizard, and that is a progresion which is particularly powerful. Susan From Aprilsong at aol.com Sat Dec 23 08:38:13 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:38:13 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <921hm2+10m3u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <921o9l+1qok@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7651 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Given that Professor Dumbledore states that if he saw himself > in the Mirror of Erised, he would be holding a pair of thick wool > socks, might he have been a house elf? Perhaps there is a progressions > where House Elf becomes Wizard, and that is a progresion > which is particularly powerful. > > Susan I believe it means his deepest desires have already been fulfilled in his long lifetime. Simple, creature comforts are all that he might need now. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 13:15:18 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:15:18 -0000 Subject: H/H v H/R In-Reply-To: <3A437C2F.70C1CDD7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9228h6+8br0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7652 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > OMG -- are we reading the same books? Ron's "lack of intense > ambition"???? He's *the* most ambitious character in the series in > my book. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in GoF IMO. He's > far more ambitious than surface-level ambitious Percy. Ron is >incredibly insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own >insecurities but Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what >either H or H demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better >than everyone around him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of >Erised -- himself, standing alone, more successful & admired than >any of his friends & family. Well .... all I can say is we have a >very different perspective on Ron. I don't see him as stable, >cheerful or unambitious. Completely the opposite in my book. Ron >has lots of great qualities, but a healthy level of ambition is not >one of them (IMO). > OK, I'll try and answer this to the best of my abilities. WARNING: long and possibly tedious. First of all, I'd like to make a distinction between wanting distinction (fame, a lot of attention and so on) and wanting to excel. As I see it, Ron feels the lack of distinction; Harry is driven to excellence through fear of failure. I think these two types of "ambition" arise from different kinds of insecurities. Harry has real self-doubts. That is, he is not sure about his own worth, in his own eyes. That explains why he is so uncomfortable with being famous. If you have deep-seated doubts about your inherent worth, being famous generates enormous anxieties arising from the huge discrepancy felt between self-image and projected image (which may explain why many rock or film stars go nuts at the peak of their success). Ron has no such self-doubts of inherent worth. His frustrations arise from NOT receiving attention, from not being important, from not getting distinction. I wouldn't even call this insecurity, really. He feels secure in his own worth; what he doesn't feel secure about is how he is appreciated by others. It is very easy for him to accept attention (see the scene in GoF when he enjoys the attention after the third task). As I see it, he has the very normal resentment of not being noticed very much. Its very common with adolescents, as probably most of us will agree from their own experience. This is why Ron, although he wants attention, is not really driven to excel. Harry, because he does have deep self-doubts, is driven to excel. Thats, more or less, what I meant when I said that Ron is not ambitious. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 13:22:38 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:22:38 -0000 Subject: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post In-Reply-To: <91vunn+tfke@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9228uu+ral1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7653 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > I said: > > Thank you, oh newly-elected President of the R/He fanclub! Naama for President! > Independently of the shipping forecasts, I'm a Ron Weasley fan, so > please don't 'Grrrr' at me Would you believe me if I said that like the Cheshire Cat I "growl when I'm pleased"? Apologies, nonetheless. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 13:37:38 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:37:38 -0000 Subject: Amy and Laury (OT) In-Reply-To: <920p92+uqus@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9229r2+9ngd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7654 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > I don't take this as evidence that Hermione is not his best friend > too. In Chapter Two, "The Scar", he first imagines Hermione's > reaction to the pain in his scar. Then, "And so he tried to remember > his *other* best friend, Ron Weasley's, reaction..." (21-22, emphasis mine) > Good point. > I still don't think Laurie and Amy were suited in *Little Women*, >and will never believe that they were. > YES!!! I've always thought so too. Have you noticed that as soon as the heroine grow up (Jo, in this case), she turns from a precocious, adventurous, interesting child, to a boring, predictable woman? Anne went through the same process. I've often wondered about this. Naama From zsenya at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 13:56:51 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:56:51 -0000 Subject: R/H,H/H and a couple of observations Message-ID: <922av3+teuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7655 I have noticed something very interesting in all of these shipper posts. Many people admit to either having been R/H or being R/H for the canon, but that after reading POU, switched to H/H. So, you're basing your preference on a fan fiction to begin with! I think PoU is wonderful, and I love the way that Harry is portrayed (very sexy!). As a R/H shipper, though, when I read it, I had a mindset of "Well, it's a nice story, but its only happening because Ron is dead and that won't happen" because I am convinced by JKR that Ron is a good guy and not a traitor. Also, I realize that in real life, people rarely end up with their school sweethearts, but I get the impression that at Hogwarts it is more common - maybe because the wizarding community is relatively close-knit. Another thought was - Harry really needs some sort of family and I think that the Weasley's provide that for him. Being with Hermione does not give him a family life like the Weasleys, and actually makes it awkward for him to remain part of their life. Ron with Hermione and Harry with Ginny makes me happy,and gives free reign to Harry to be part of a warm and loving family. Of course, 90% of what I think about Ginny comes from fan fiction as well, but I really think that JKR will develop her character further. Also, doesn't anyone realize that Ginny is the only one, besides Harry, to have been face to face with Voldemort? That's gotta mean something. From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 14:54:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:54:34 -0600 Subject: Ron: Desire for Distinction or Success References: <9228h6+8br0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A44BCAA.771804BA@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7656 Hi -- naama wrote: > First of all, I'd like to make a distinction between wanting > distinction (fame, a lot of attention and so on) and wanting to > excel. > As I see it, Ron feels the lack of distinction; Harry is driven to > excellence through fear of failure. > I think these two types of "ambition" arise from different kinds of > insecurities. Harry has real self-doubts. That is, he is not sure > about his own worth, in his own eyes. That explains why he is so > uncomfortable with being famous. If you have deep-seated doubts about > your inherent worth, being famous generates enormous anxieties > arising from the huge discrepancy felt between self-image and > projected image (which may explain why many rock or film stars go > nuts at the peak of their success). I think this is a useful way to look at it on some levels, although I suppose I would say that a quest to excel (whether motivated by a need to prove one's doubts about self-worth or by a need to be someone "special") is a healthy sort of ambition in most cases. It can certainly be overdone -- Percy is a good example of overdone drive to excel. But, for most people, an ambitious drive to succeed in one or more areas can be a positive motivator. I would say a need for distinction is indicative of less self-worth than the former though. Perhaps we just have a different way of looking at it, but it seems to me that if someone is seeking out "distinction" (recognition), they are inherently dissatisfied with their lot in life. This sort of person wants others to *recognize* & *approve* of him, which then increases his self-worth. It's not, in my mind, a mark of self-confidence at all. It's a sign that this person can't just be satisfied with himself, until others give him the stamp of approval so to speak. It also seems to indicate someone who can't be satisfied with the mere achievement of a goal in & of itself; he/she is only satisfied if such achievement is accompanied by "glory" & the approval & praise of others. > Ron has no such self-doubts of inherent worth. His frustrations arise > from NOT receiving attention, from not being important, from not > getting distinction. I wouldn't even call this insecurity, really. He > feels secure in his own worth; what he doesn't feel secure about is > how he is appreciated by others. I guess I just don't see examples that show that he has self-confidence & self-worth. I see someone plagued with doubts about his talents & skills, worried constantly that he won't measure up to his older brothers or his best friends. Perhaps you could point us to some examples from the books that support that he is in fact comfortable with who he is & what his talents are. I see him as someone who is very frustrated. > It is very easy for him to accept attention (see the scene in GoF when > he enjoys the attention after the third task). Um ..... I always saw that as evidence of his incredible need to receive the *most* attention, he inflated his role so obviously. He wanted so much to shine & be the one getting all the attention for just once. > As I see it, he has the very normal resentment of > not being noticed very much. Its very common with adolescents, as > probably most of us will agree from their own experience. > This is why Ron, although he wants attention, is not really driven to > excel. I think he is driven to excel, he just doesn't recognize it yet. We didn't see overt evidence of Fred & George's ambitions until GoF, and I feel fairly certain that we'll see more & more of Ron's desire to prove himself in later books. I liked Ron very much in the first 3 books, but his role in GoF made me very uneasy. I think Ebony expressed similar sentiments. Like Neil, I do like Ron (shipper preferences aside) but .... I have grave doubts about his ability to withstand pressure & enticements that play on what I see as his greatest weakness, his desire for fame, glory & riches. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 15:03:52 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:03:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H,H/H and a couple of observations References: <922av3+teuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A44BED8.5087AB54@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7657 Hi -- zsenya at yahoo.com wrote: > I have noticed something very interesting in all of these shipper > posts. Many people admit to either having been R/H or being R/H for > the canon, but that after reading POU, switched to H/H. So, you're > basing your preference on a fan fiction to begin with! Well, I can only speak to my case. I was essentially a "no-shipper" who saw the beginnings of a possible R/H romance in PoA (this was before GoF). After reading PoU, I started looking at the canon more closely and realized that H/H made more ultimate sense to me. In other words, it caused me to rethink my view of the canon, and my new interpretation of the canon was reinforced by GoF. So, I don't think it's a matter of all H/H people just being muddled by fanfiction and not being able to distinguish reality (the canon & hence R/H) from fiction (fanfiction, H/H). There's a long line of evidence of Hermione having feelings for Harry, not Ron, beginning with CoS (IMO anyway). > I think PoU is wonderful, and I love the way that Harry is portrayed > (very sexy!). As a R/H shipper, though, when I read it, I had a > mindset of "Well, it's a nice story, but its only happening because > Ron is dead and that won't happen" because I am convinced by JKR that > Ron is a good guy and not a traitor. Just a reminder that Ron isn't a traitor in the context of PoU; quite the opposite. He *is* dead but not because of betrayal. > Another thought was - Harry really needs some sort of family and I > think that the Weasley's provide that for him. Being with Hermione > does not give him a family life like the Weasleys, and actually makes > it awkward for him to remain part of their life. Ron with Hermione > and Harry with Ginny makes me happy,and gives free reign to Harry to > be part of a warm and loving family. Well, we don't know anything about Hermione's family, other than it appears she is an only child. This doesn't mean that Harry wouldn't have a happy family existence if he ended up with her. I also don't really think the Weasleys' feelings for Harry are so superficial that they would be compromised if he doesn't marry Ginny & allow Ron to have Hermione. Ron & Hermione may have a romance, but adolescent romances don't always last (I know there's the argument that this is more common in the wizarding world but...). If they break up & end up being amicable at the time of breakup or some point later, I don't imagine the entire Weasley clan would turn on Harry if he took up with her later. > Of course, 90% of what I think about Ginny comes from fan fiction as > well, but I really think that JKR will develop her character further. > Also, doesn't anyone realize that Ginny is the only one, besides > Harry, to have been face to face with Voldemort? That's gotta mean > something. Well, she was unconscious for the greater part of that confrontation. She lapsed into unconsciousness as he was coming out of the diary pages, didn't she? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 15:06:30 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:06:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Influencing the Future? References: <921ejl+4dl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A44BF76.518A345F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7658 Hi -- Leilani Webb wrote: > Even though she has become quite prolific in a short amount of time, > JKR is still newish at this "famous author" role. I would guess > that, of course, she looks at all of the HP pages and especially this > one since our views are so unique. I would. I think she said in interviews that she knows there is a wide range of Harry Potter websites and that she's seen some of them. But, I still don't imagine she has the time or inclination to keep up with the day-to-day ramblings of this group. Be nice if she did but I just don't think so. She's got interviews, tours, booksignings/appearances, meetings with her publishers/editors, raising a daughter & trying to write for 8-12 hrs a day to do. It would take too much time for her to sit at the computer & read messages. IMO. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Dec 23 15:04:39 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:04:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H,H/H and a couple of observations References: <922av3+teuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006101c06cf1$ad5634c0$6853d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7659 ----- Original Message ----- From: > I have noticed something very interesting in all of these shipper > posts. Many people admit to either having been R/H or being R/H for > the canon, but that after reading POU, switched to H/H. So, you're > basing your preference on a fan fiction to begin with! I think PoU is > wonderful, and I love the way that Harry is portrayed (very sexy!). > As a R/H shipper, though, when I read it, I had a mindset of "Well, > it's a nice story, but its only happening because Ron is dead and that > won't happen" because I am convinced by JKR that Ron is a good guy and > not a traitor. In PoU Ron didn't die because he was a traitor. He died because he was Harry's friend. Which could very well happen. Not that it will, but..... > Another thought was - Harry really needs some sort of family and I > think that the Weasley's provide that for him. Being with Hermione > does not give him a family life like the Weasleys, and actually makes > it awkward for him to remain part of their life. Ron with Hermione > and Harry with Ginny makes me happy,and gives free reign to Harry to > be part of a warm and loving family. This has been postulated a lot, and it kind of bugs me, because its all about what Harry needs. Lets put Harry with Ginny so he can have her family as his own. Kind neglects what Ginny might need. I know we have no idea what Ginny might need or want. Right now we know that she has a crush on him. That doesn't mean that they would be right for one another. But who knows. I'd like to see Ginny develop a lot more. > > Of course, 90% of what I think about Ginny comes from fan fiction as > well, but I really think that JKR will develop her character further. She said she would in book 5. > Also, doesn't anyone realize that Ginny is the only one, besides > Harry, to have been face to face with Voldemort? That's gotta mean > something. That's been mentioned tangentially in ASA and is also mentioned in DS (I think). I agree its a unique bond they share, and could be the basis for an interesting relationship once Ginny matures, and depending on the type of character JKR turns her into. Right now she's so weak and indeveloped it makes a lot of people cringe. They think Harry deserves and would want and need more. I think those of us who pair Harry with Hermione do it mainly because she is the most well developed character, so we can see how they would mesh. We also like the idea of best friends becoming more. We also tend to think Hermione and Ron's bickering would make for a very contentious pairing. I'm all for Harry and Ginny (I get to write those scenes in ASA) *if* she's a strong enough character for him, NOT just so he can take a place in her family. carole > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Dec 23 15:10:59 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:10:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H,H/H and a couple of observations References: <922av3+teuh@eGroups.com> <3A44BED8.5087AB54@swbell.net> Message-ID: <007501c06cf2$8fb0fbc0$6853d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7660 > Well, we don't know anything about Hermione's family, other than it > appears she is an only child. This doesn't mean that Harry wouldn't > have a happy family existence if he ended up with her. I also don't > really think the Weasleys' feelings for Harry are so superficial that > they would be compromised if he doesn't marry Ginny & allow Ron to have > Hermione. Ron & Hermione may have a romance, but adolescent romances > don't always last (I know there's the argument that this is more common > in the wizarding world but...). If they break up & end up being > amicable at the time of breakup or some point later, I don't imagine the > entire Weasley clan would turn on Harry if he took up with her later. Gotta agree here. I think Harry and Hermione will always be accepted as a part of the Weasley family (particularly Harry) no matter who marries whom. carole From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sat Dec 23 16:09:04 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:09:04 -0000 Subject: R/H,H/H and a couple of observations In-Reply-To: <922av3+teuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <922in0+fj4k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7661 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, zsenya at y... wrote: > I have noticed something very interesting in all of these shipper > posts. Many people admit to either having been R/H or being R/H for the canon, but that after reading POU, switched to H/H. So, you're basing your preference on a fan fiction to begin with! I think PoU is wonderful, and I love the way that Harry is portrayed (very sexy!). As a R/H shipper, though, when I read it, I had a mindset of "Well, it's a nice story, but its only happening because Ron is dead and that won't happen" because I am convinced by JKR that Ron is a good guy and not a traitor. ------------------------------------------------------- I an only speak for myself, but I know I was an H/H shipper long before I ever read PoU, which I actually got to quite late (long after I'd written my own story, which was, yes, H/H...although only just barely ;).) In terms of PoU, IIRC, Ron doesn't die because he's a traitor, but because he's a friend of Harry's. And I think half the reason Lori killed off Ron wasn't to clear the way for Harry and Hermione, but to provide an obstacle to explain why it took them so long to get together -- they had to deal with their guilt over Ron's death. Dead Ron probably provided a far bigger obstacle to their union than Living Ron would have. ------------------------- Zsenya wrote: "Of course, 90% of what I think about Ginny comes from fan fiction as well, but I really think that JKR will develop her character further. Also, doesn't anyone realize that Ginny is the only one, besides Harry, to have been face to face with Voldemort? That's gotta mean something." *And* "Ron with Hermione and Harry with Ginny makes me happy,and gives free reign to Harry to be part of a warm and loving family." It might mean more if JKR had ever developed it at all. Like you said, it's far more developed an idea in fanfic than in the canon! (It's mentioned in ASA, I know.) Ginny remains woefully undeveloped and uninteresting, which is probably why I just don't see her for Harry. And I'm not in love with the argument that Harry should end up with Ginny so he'd be part of a big happy family, because that pretty much ignores what Ginny (whiney and undeveloped though she may be) needs. It smacks of the "consolation prize argument" that a lot of people use in saying that Ron should wind up with Hermione "because Harry has everything else, fame, glory, Quidditch skills, so Ron should get SOMETHING" -- it ignores what would be good for Hermione or what she might want and by extension makes Ron sound like a loser. -------------- "Another thought was - Harry really needs some sort of family and I > think that the Weasley's provide that for him. Being with Hermione > does not give him a family life like the Weasleys, and actually makes it awkward for him to remain part of their life." I'm sure this has been said before, but I just don't see where Harry winding up with Hermione makes his relationship with the Weasleys awkward. Mrs. Weasley adores him *and* she adores Hermione, and the only time we've ever seen her react negatively to Hermione is when she thought that Hermione was Harry's girlfriend and wasn't treating him right! My impression is that she would have been perfectly delighted if Hermione and Harry had been going out, and only reacted negatively because she was afraid Hermione was doing him wrong (for lack of a better phrase.) I can't see Mrs. Weasley turning Harry and Hermione away simply because Hermione didn't end up marrying Ron (who might not care at that point anyway), and if she did, then I'd be pretty disappointed in her. Fun as all this speculation is, a lot of it, I'd imagine, is based on subjective preference. Ron is not my favorite character by a long shot, I far prefer Harry, and therefore would rather Hermione ended up with him. Those who like Ron feel differently. Of course if I had my druthers Draco would reform himself and *he'd* end up with Hermione, but I know that will never happen. (Runs away from Penny, who is looking threatening.) The canon, IMHO, at this point is just not conclusive either way. Cassie From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 16:38:24 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:38:24 -0000 Subject: Ron: Desire for Distinction or Success In-Reply-To: <3A44BCAA.771804BA@swbell.net> Message-ID: <922ke0+sna7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7662 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I guess I just don't see examples that show that he has >self-confidence & self-worth. I see someone plagued with doubts >about his talents & skills, worried constantly that he won't measure >up to his older brothers or his best friends. Perhaps you could >point us to some examples from the books that support that he is in >fact comfortable with who he is & what his talents are. I see him >as someone who is very frustrated. > I don't think that Ron is self-confident. I am trying to distinguish between being confident about your "talents & skills" (which are externals) and having a sense of self-worth. Its not the same thing, IMO. I don't have positive examples, only negative ones, like the fact that he isn't jealous of Harry's and Hermione's abilities. What triggered his jealousy was that Harry got to be the centre of attention one time too many. > > It is very easy for him to accept attention (see the scene in GoF > >when he enjoys the attention after the third task). > Um ..... I always saw that as evidence of his incredible need to >receive the *most* attention, he inflated his role so obviously. He >wanted so much to shine & be the one getting all the attention for >just once. I see it differently - as a very natural and common behavior which practically anybody would have adopted in the same situation. Who doesn't like attention and admiration? > > > I liked Ron very much in the first 3 books, but his role in GoF >made me very uneasy. I think Ebony expressed similar sentiments. >Like Neil, I do like Ron (shipper preferences aside) but .... I have >grave doubts about his ability to withstand pressure & enticements >that play on what I see as his greatest weakness, his desire for >fame, glory & riches. Well, it could be of course. He is at present discontent and may make bad choices because of it. But in my picture of Ron grown-up he has grown out of his petty discontents and becomes what he really is - stable, cheerful and unambitious (you know, the ultimate family man, perfectly suited for Hermione. ) Naama From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sat Dec 23 17:12:01 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 17:12:01 -0000 Subject: Ron: Desire for Distinction or Success In-Reply-To: <922ke0+sna7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <922md1+8ock@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7663 Penny wrote: > > I guess I just don't see examples that show that he has > >self-confidence & self-worth(snip)Perhaps you could > >point us to some examples from the books that support that he is in >fact comfortable with who he is & what his talents are. I see him >as someone who is very frustrated. > > > Naama wrote: I don't think that Ron is self-confident. I am trying to distinguish between being confident about your "talents & skills" (which are externals) and having a sense of self-worth. Its not the same thing, IMO. I don't have positive examples, only negative ones, like the fact that he isn't jealous of Harry's and Hermione's abilities. What triggered his jealousy was that Harry got to be the centre of attention one time too many. That's true...From GOF, chapter 18, Hermione talking to Harry about Ron: "It's always you who gets all the attention, you know it is...I know you don't ask for it, but Ron's got all those brothers to compete against at home, and you're his best friend and you're really famous, he's always shunted to one side whenever people see you and he puts up with it and never mentions it but I suppose this was just one time too many." That "one time too many" business made me think that the Goblet of Fire business was hardly an isolated example of Ron being jealous of Harry; simply that up until that point, he'd chosen to bottle it up (I liked that whistling teakettle analogy someone used a while back.) I'd say he IS jealous of Harry's abilities, if not Hermione's, and always has been; Goblet was just the first time it got out of his control. Naama wrote: "I see it differently - as a very natural and common behavior which practically anybody would have adopted in the same situation. Who doesn't like attention and admiration?" Harry, for one, has learned to mistrust attention and admiration that are unearned. Naama wrote: "But in my picture of Ron grown-up he has grown out of his petty discontents and becomes what he really is - stable, cheerful and unambitious (you know, the ultimate family man, perfectly suited for Hermione. )" And in my picture of Draco grown-up, he's a cute, likeable guy in leather pants. We all have our fantasies. *grins evilly* Cassie From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 23 17:31:34 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 04:31:34 +1100 Subject: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: <012801c06d06$32d9cda0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7664 I wonder, has anyone yet tried to interpret what Jo means by the name of the next book? I would appreciate any pointers to good fanfic. Simon. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 18:49:20 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:49:20 -0600 Subject: Auction, Chat References: <012801c06d06$32d9cda0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <015501c06d11$105ee520$a9d73404@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7665 Hello, and happy holidays folks! Braved mom's party last night, got blasted, but survived without any sickness at all (knock wood) Two reasons for the email/post: first, I prolly won't be in chat tomorrow--grandma's annual "eve" get together. Second, I don't really understand the currency thing, but am I nuts to think that the final price paid, when the bidding started at 100 pounds, is a bit expensive? http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/show/bid_hist?aID=46755406 Thanks! Dee (Not that I wouldn't accept the nameplate for Christmas!) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Biber To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 11:31 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Order of the Phoenix I wonder, has anyone yet tried to interpret what Jo means by the name of the next book? I would appreciate any pointers to good fanfic. Simon. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 18:01:49 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:01:49 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <921hm2+10m3u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <922pad+5ivs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7666 Susan McGee wrote: "Given that Professor Dumbledore states that if he saw himself in the Mirror of Erised, he would be holding a pair of thick wool socks, might he have been a house elf? Perhaps there is a progressions where House Elf becomes Wizard, and that is a progresion which is particularly powerful." Erm, perhaps not. There was a lot of discussion on this topic back in October. Try the dissusions starting with post 3301 which BTW you instigated... My guess is that he lied (the text even points in that direction though I'm not sure whether anyone would consider that and accurate indicator or not), but if he was telling the truth then it would back up my pet theory that socks will indeed be the downfall of Lord V. But when you think about it clothes are what frees HE's and not socks exclusively. Anyway I recall Neil once stating that socks will be important to the plot if book seven is titled "Harry Potter and the Kneesocks of Fear". He was kidding but for those of us with the notion that socks are important there's still a chance that the title of book 5 will change to "Harry Potter and the Order of the Stocking". Scott Who is afraid that he is becoming more and more like Dobby everyday. Why you ask? I requested socks for Christmas... ********************************************************************** "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon ********************************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 18:14:48 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:14:48 -0000 Subject: Auction, Chat In-Reply-To: <015501c06d11$105ee520$a9d73404@computer> Message-ID: <922q2o+2fus@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7667 Denise Rohleder" wrote: "Hello, and happy holidays folks! "Braved mom's party last night, got blasted, but survived without any sickness at all (knock wood)...Second, I don't really understand the currency thing, but am I nuts to think that the final price paid, when the bidding started at 100 pounds, is a bit expensive? http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/show/bid_hist?aID=46755406 Thanks! Dee (Not that I wouldn't accept the nameplate for Christmas!)" Ok, I did a quick conversion just to make sure that I was giving you correct information.... It so happens that the the final price for this nameplate was GBP 100,000 (no symbol) and $147,000. WOW! Now I'd like that nameplate too, but I must admit that sounds a teensy bit expensive... Scott From amy at wintersmoon.com Sat Dec 23 18:20:41 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:20:41 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <012801c06d06$32d9cda0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <922qdp+k9dg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7668 I'd be curious to hear speculation too. The only thing I can think of is that the Order of the Phoenix is the "old crowd" - the ones that fought against Voldermort before. At first I thought that the old crowd we're just the *old crowd* - Dumbledore's peers. We know that Mrs. Figg is apparently older, at least in Harry's eyes. But then when I read GoF again, I realized that Lupin was included in the "old crowd". I'd also be curious to hear the speculation on what exactly James, Lily, and Sirius did to make money. It seems like the amount of money Harry has in his vault was quite a bit - obviously they didn't work for the ministry. I think I remember reading somewhere that JKR said that how James and Lily made their money would figure in heavily in the later books???? Amy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > I wonder, has anyone yet tried to interpret what Jo means by the name of the > next book? > > I would appreciate any pointers to good fanfic. > > Simon. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 23 18:35:20 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:35:20 +1100 Subject: Pre-Hogwarts education and the Weasleys References: <921ad1+tnts@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b001c06d0f$1b4297e0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7669 warning: this poses a concept then rambles on incoherently. i was tired at the time. Rita (why do I see Skeeter here?) Winston wrote: > I really believe that MOST wizarding folk are not as ignorant of > Muggle culture as the Weasleys are. While I understand your view that the Weasleys are patronising of Muggles, I would expect that other wizards are even more ignorant. What amazes me is that they don't study common subjects in the Wizarding world. Some like Science and Engineering are rendered unnecessary by magic though still could be interesting (I guess that's what Muggle Studies is for), but others like Maths, Languages (where did that guy learn them?), Geography should be very useful. Magic can often be so convenient and change form constantly -- I am led to believe it is not governed by a rational set of laws but by the whim of Jo's imagination. She can often tend to make up answers when confronted with questions instead of constructing a response to fit with the established world-view. So, while the books themselves are canon, I would be a little more careful about taking her answers as definate. Simon. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Dec 23 18:51:16 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:51:16 +1100 Subject: Order of the Phoenix References: <922qdp+k9dg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01d401c06d11$5550e390$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 7670 blind speculation: I have been thinking of the Order as a collection of people associated with the Phoenix. We saw in PoA that Harry is capable of calling Fawkes in a time of need. This means he is a member of the Order of the Phoenix. I would assume Dumbledore is also in the Order (a respected member, if he is allowed to keep one as a pet). Perhaps the book could involve convincing more Phoenix to be involved in the fight against Voldemort. Perhaps we will see Fawkes undergoing a rebirth during book five. Dumbledore says it is a sight to behold. Perhaps the Marauders were also members of this Order. Who is the DADA teacher? Will it finally be Snape's turn? Maybe that's left for the last book. Now is the time to get Harry's cohort well trained in DADA; they will need it for the final showdown. (unrelated: Why does Dumbledore not realise that anyone sorted into Slytherin is bad and refuse them tuition?) Simon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Winters" To: Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:20 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix > I'd be curious to hear speculation too. The only thing I can think > of is that the Order of the Phoenix is the "old crowd" - the ones > that fought against Voldermort before. At first I thought that the > old crowd we're just the *old crowd* - Dumbledore's peers. We know > that Mrs. Figg is apparently older, at least in Harry's eyes. But > then when I read GoF again, I realized that Lupin was included in > the "old crowd". > > I'd also be curious to hear the speculation on what exactly James, > Lily, and Sirius did to make money. It seems like the amount of > money Harry has in his vault was quite a bit - obviously they didn't > work for the ministry. I think I remember reading somewhere that JKR > said that how James and Lily made their money would figure in heavily > in the later books???? > > Amy > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > I wonder, has anyone yet tried to interpret what Jo means by the > name of the > > next book? > > > > I would appreciate any pointers to good fanfic. > > > > Simon. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 07:08:56 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:08:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post References: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006d01c06d78$644aca20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7671 Neil wrote, > Despite missing my fix > of Ha/He fanfic I'm still leaning towards to the Ha/He pairing, > rather than R/He. Et tu, Brute? [Dies. The true fans retire in confusion.] No wait--I've got a stab left in me: Jo said in an interview that something is going on between Ron and Hermione, but Ron hasn't noticed it. Doesn't that imply that said goings on are being experienced most overtly by Hermione? Then she's in love!--she's in love!--we're safe!! Gamboling for joy, Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 07:09:13 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:09:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and ambition References: <01C06CE6.ADC4AF00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <006e01c06d78$6c584080$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7672 Someone--my apologies, but I can't remember who--mentioned the danger that Ron might "do a Pettigrew." Which presented a question: has Jo ever stated which house Pettigrew came from? I know she cleared up our old suspicions that Sirius and James might have been from other houses--but did she cover Pettigrew too? The underlying question: is it even possible for a Gryffindor to turn traitor--or do future traitors get sent to Slytherin? (BTW, I should add that I hope Gryffs *can* go bad. Clockwork oranges taste awful.) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 07:36:54 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:36:54 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron: Desire for Distinction or Success References: <922md1+8ock@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007c01c06d7c$507fd0e0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7673 Cassie wrote > And in my picture of Draco grown-up, he's a cute, likeable guy in > leather pants. Er, Cass--you were speaking US English, weren't you? The alternative sounds terribly uncomfortable. (My dad, while visiting friends in England, once announced that he wore pants with suspenders only when he wanted to show off. His friends were disappointed that his ensuing dis-coveries were of an entirely linguistic nature.) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Dec 23 19:14:19 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:14:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix References: <922qdp+k9dg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004501c06d14$8de14c60$717fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Winters" > > I'd also be curious to hear the speculation on what exactly James, > Lily, and Sirius did to make money. It seems like the amount of > money Harry has in his vault was quite a bit - obviously they didn't > work for the ministry. I think I remember reading somewhere that JKR > said that how James and Lily made their money would figure in heavily > in the later books???? JKR said recently in an interview that James money and invisibility cloak was inherited. Seems James comes from old money. That doesn't preclude them making a bunch of galleons doing what ever they were doing, and it doesn't explain Sirius' wealth, if he's wealthy that is. carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Dec 23 19:15:22 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:15:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix References: <922qdp+k9dg@eGroups.com> <01d401c06d11$5550e390$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <004b01c06d14$b366b4c0$717fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7675 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Biber" > blind speculation: > I have been thinking of the Order as a collection of people associated with > the Phoenix. We saw in PoA that Harry is capable of calling Fawkes in a time > of need. This means he is a member of the Order of the Phoenix. I would > assume Dumbledore is also in the Order (a respected member, if he is allowed > to keep one as a pet). Perhaps the book could involve convincing more > Phoenix to be involved in the fight against Voldemort. Perhaps we will see > Fawkes undergoing a rebirth during book five. Dumbledore says it is a sight > to behold. Didn't we see him go though a rebirth in CoS? carole From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 23 19:42:38 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:42:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post Message-ID: <200012231950.eBNJo0U22105@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7676 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Hi -- > >Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >> Hey, if the H/H people can make stuff up, why can't I?) > >Can I ask what you think we (the H/H people) have made up? I know I've >jokingly used Rita's "in my universe" phrase, but I've always made it >abundantly clear that it was something that was pure speculation & a >joke in some instances. My H/H theories are in general at least what a >lawyer would call "can be argued with a straight face" (i.e., not "made >up"). > >Penny Actually I was referring to the various interpretations given to things in the books,like "The Kiss". Perhaps "make stuff up" is not what I really meant--I just meant that I think that my chosen interpretation has as much validity as yours. I mean, none of us know what's going to happen--we all see the world through ship-colored glasses. Kathy From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 23 19:46:21 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:46:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss Message-ID: <200012231953.eBNJrhU22513@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7677 Kimberly wrote: >However if it is Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, everyone's >happy. Harry gets not only a girl who adores him (and I'm hoping for >some proof in the future that she's worthy of him as well, since she's >not very fleshed-out yet), he also gets the family he's always lacked, >and who have specifically shown him the only familial love he's ever >had. He (and Hermione both, this way) gets to be an insider in the >whole wizard culture for the first time, as he's joining a big old >wizarding family. He also (what could be better?) gets his two best >friends as brother and sister-in-law, and everyone can gather together >at the Burrow for wonderful family holidays. It's just so perfect! >To me it's like the pieces of a puzzle fitting together - sure, you >can force pieces into other places, but the picture doesn't end up >nearly as pretty. Kimberly, have you read "The Best Man" series by Mrs. Weasley? If not, do...from your message I think would really like it. It's definitely one of my favorite R/H stories, and probably the best grown-up R/H, H/G story out there. Kathy From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Dec 23 20:03:12 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:03:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post References: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> <006d01c06d78$644aca20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A450500.5E21193@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 7678 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > No wait--I've got a stab left in me: Jo said in an interview that something > is going on between Ron and Hermione, but Ron hasn't noticed it. Doesn't > that imply that said goings on are being experienced most overtly by > Hermione? Then she's in love!--she's in love!--we're safe!! Not necessarily. Ron could just be oblivious to his own feelings for Hermione - in other words, he is actually interested in her as a girl, not as a "friend" but doesn't realize it himself. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 23 20:33:05 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 20:33:05 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks/Hermione in lurve? References: <922pad+5ivs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006201c06d1f$acc55080$b73570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7679 Scott said: > Anyway I recall Neil once stating that socks will be important to the > plot if book seven is titled "Harry Potter and the Kneesocks of > Fear". He was kidding but for those of us with the notion that socks > are important there's still a chance that the title of book 5 will > change to "Harry Potter and the Order of the Stocking". Tsk! Nobody takes me seriously. I'm currently working on a book entitled "The Significance of Underwear and Hats in the Harry Potter Series [not approved by JK Rowling]". *** I wrote: > Despite missing my fix > of Ha/He fanfic I'm still leaning towards to the Ha/He pairing, > rather than R/He. Aberforth's Goat responded: >>>>Et tu, Brute? [Dies. The true fans retire in confusion.] >>>>No wait--I've got a stab left in me: Jo said in an interview that something >>>>is going on between Ron and Hermione, but Ron hasn't noticed it. Doesn't >>>>that imply that said goings on are being experienced most overtly by >>>>Hermione? Then she's in love!--she's in love!--we're safe!! >>>>Gamboling for joy, Hold thy glee for a nanosecond! "Something going on between" them does not necessarily imply interest on Hermione's part, it could just be a reference to Ron's boyish ignorance of his feelings for Hermione and her recognition (but not reciprocation) of his crush. Like some others, I can see Ron and Hermione having a bit of a post-pubescent fumble during their school years, but I find it far more interesting to imagine Hermione slowly drawing Harry out of his aloofness and into a contract of marriage. Paradigm of Uncertainty and its sequel (and the prequel, A Sirius Affair) portray this, but that's not why I support H/He. After finishing GoF, I was a no-shipper, because these were still 14 year old kids, having adventures and making jokes about Uranus; I hadn't given too much thought to romantic pairings. The fanfic forced me think about where things *might* be heading in that department and conclude that H/He would be the most logical and interesting route. Okay Mike, prithee, resume prancing... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 23 20:47:50 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:47:50 -0600 Subject: Ron & Hermione per JKR References: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> <006d01c06d78$644aca20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A450F76.218B34BC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7680 Hi -- Aberforth's Goat wrote: > No wait--I've got a stab left in me: Jo said in an interview that > something > is going on between Ron and Hermione, but Ron hasn't noticed it. > Doesn't > that imply that said goings on are being experienced most overtly by > Hermione? Then she's in love!--she's in love!--we're safe!! > > Gamboling for joy, > I see that Heidi (another lawyer) has already responded to this, but this lawyer also can't resist saying "Not so fast there Mr. Goat!" Her answer is sufficiently open to interpretation regarding Hermione's feelings to cast grave doubts on your conclusion. It would not withstand much cross-examination. Unfortunately B&N doesn't have the chat transcript up yet (2 months ago!), but the wording we all seem to remember definitely does not explicitly say that Hermione returns feelings for Ron. Like Heidi and Neil said, the wording could be interpreted to mean that Ron just doesn't know about his feelings for Hermione yet, but she knows about his feelings (but doesn't necessarily reciprocate). Does JKR *ever* give a direct answer? If one relied on her pre-GoF interviews for example, one would easily conclude that Harry & Cho would date in Book 4. This didn't quite turn out to be the case though, did it? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Dec 23 20:50:16 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 20:50:16 -0000 Subject: Various ships / who'll die? Message-ID: <923368+6fdv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7681 Hi all-- I'm a bit behind, only fifty posts or so, but have been enjoying all the relationships discussion. I have to say, I'm not an ardent shipper for any of the pairings. But, by the end of PoA, I had the thought that it would end up: Ha/G and He/R, despite Harry's crush on Cho. My reasons were that JKR was already setting up a He/R pairing, at least for during the HW years, so I think that at least a teen relationship between the two is pretty much a given. I figured the same may be true for Harry and Cho, (at least until GoF), but that Harry would 'end up' with Ginny. I don't have any strong arguments for this, but just thought Harry will end up with a redhead like his mom; Ginny's had the ever-popular crush on H that will need ~some~ resolution (and, isn't that a useful hook for JKR to fall back on?); the Weasleys only have one daughter, who better for her to marry?; Harry will finally be part of a real family (I know he was in a real family with J & L, but that was only for the first year and a half of his life), and a wizarding family at that. Plus, often guys marry a friend's sister-- "I never noticed you before, you were always just Ron's little sister, but you're all grown up now, blah, blah, blah." With all the Ginny stuff in CoS, it seemed that might be where it was all heading. No, she hasn't had much 'screen time' since then, but all it would take is one book to really get that all going. Plus, only since GoF has all the real romantic-attraction stuff really begun. I don't know how JKR'll handle the Harry/Cho thing since Cedric, but I wouldn't expect anything more there except maybe friendship. Maybe they'll talk about him or something. As for He/R, she's been setting them up, I think we'd all agree, and that way Hermione could be part of the Weasley clan as well. Aw, they're all 'family' now. MAYBE JKR will pull the twist and have H/H end up together. I don't really think so, though. The main reason I think this is that we seem to be reading much more into everything than JKR is. I would expect that all the big surprise stuff in the canon will be with the main storyline, and pairing the characters off will be the 'happily ever after' epilogue. I absolutely think the 'romantic pairings' thread will be an ongoing subplot, and it may definitely have bearing on the main plot. But, when all is said and done, the easiest route for the pairings to take would be Ha/G and He/R, IMO. And, I would expect JKR to take the easy route with this thread; not really sure why. It may have to do with all the recent info we've gotten: the wand order was wrong, Lily (and Hagrid) were in Gryff. "naturally", etc. The plot theories we've all conceived seem to be much more complex than what JKR is planning. Of course, my whole theory is blown if she kills off Ron. I don't really think she will, but admittedly there's a chance. Do we all agree that Dumble is a goner? Aside from him, I'm thinking we may lose Hagrid and maybe Lupin. And Sirius may be a marked man as well. I truly hope not, Harry needs to have someone all to himself, especially the best friend of his parents, so he can learn more about them as he's ready. I don't want to lose any of them, I love them all, but these seem the most likely to me. Maybe one of the Weasleys, not sure. So, the upshot? JKR'll take the easy way out with the relationships, that's my tentative opinion. (Subject to change at any time...) Wow, didn't think I had this much to say... Kelley--happy to rise from recent lurkdom and offer some knuts to the conversation... From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 09:02:00 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:02:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Auction, Chat References: <922q2o+2fus@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008c01c06d88$3608cc60$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7682 > It so happens that the the final price for this nameplate was GBP > 100,000 (no symbol) and $147,000. > > WOW! Now I'd like that nameplate too, but I must admit that sounds a > teensy bit expensive... And more than a teensy bit like a dumb joke. I think someone was trying to amuse himself ... I wonder whether the seller could take whoever it is to court and bankrupt him for it. BTW, after looking at that one, I got curious and wandered over to ebay for a look at the HP bidding action--and got to watch a full set of signed 1st/1st Deluxe Editions go for $3,301. That's a heck of a lot of money for something that isn't really even a first edition ... Strange. I wonder what it feels like to own a signed, *real* 1st/1st. Are there any such owners in our midst?? (Besides GoF!) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From ara_kel at yahoo.com Sat Dec 23 21:04:17 2000 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:04:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Quotable JKR Message-ID: <20001223210417.21558.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7683 My morning was spent devouring my new copy of _The Quotable Woman_, a compilation of women's words of wisdom. The authors saw fit to include JKR's words in 4 different categories. Courage: There are all kinds of courage. It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies - but it takes just as much to stand up to our friends. Death: To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure. Fear: Always use the proper name for things. Fear of the name increases fear of the thing itself. Money: As much money and life as you could want - the two things most human beings would choose above all. The trouble is that humans do have a knack for choosing precisely those things that are worst for them. It doesn't surpise me that every one of these quotations was taken straight from the mouth of Professor Dumbledore. I've always thought JKR did some of her best writing with him. If it had been up to me, though, one more quotation would have been included in the friendship category: "But from that moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend. There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them." Sarah ===== Don't refuse to go on an occasional wild goose chase. That's what wild geese are for. -- Anon. One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 21:14:15 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:14:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7684 >Who is the DADA teacher? Will it finally be Snape's turn? Maybe that's left >for the last book. Now is the time to get Harry's cohort well trained in >DADA; they will need it for the final showdown. (unrelated: Why does Dumbledore not realise that anyone sorted into slytherin is bad and refuse them tuition?) Simon. > I think, snice the Voldemort issue is prob going to have to be resolved in Book 7....that Harry will make his living, not as a Quidditch player, but as the DADA teacher himself. I dont think Snape will get the job mainly bc he was on the dark side...It makes sense to me that Harry would be the teacher bc he is happiest at Hogwarts, and if he is AD protege as is assumed, he would have to teach before coming Headmaster...I dunno, maybe this is another of my silly dreams like Hermione and Draco(yes it is impossible i know, but i can hope right??) I think Snape may be missing in action in Book 5, but my theory for who the new DADA teacher will be is none other than dumbledore himself. I mean, he knows Voldemore is out there, so wouldnt HE, who knows better than most other wizards, want to prepare his students whom he loves so much for the very worst? Stephanie BTW- the slytherin thing is due to the fact that no one knows who goes in which house till the sorting hat, and they have alrady been invited to the school....if they did evil they could just be expelled... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 21:15:36 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:15:36 -0000 Subject: Ships Coming In/Plugging Again... Message-ID: <9234lo+p7iq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7685 Hello all-- I've been online a lot more than I intended today (having decided to forego last-minute holiday shopping by giving the remaining folks on my list money instead). I have some more ship observations (the no- shippers on list groan loudly): H/H seems to be taking a beating on the ff.net HP message boards (which cater to writers) from all sides. There's a no-shipper contingent who sneers at the most popular writers in the fandom being "girls"... he named Cassandra Claire, Penny&Carole, and Lori, and says "all their work deals with romance" in this very patronizing manner. I pointed out that the fact that their work is extremely well-rounded, and love of all kinds (not just eros) is a part of life. Poor thing... There's also the R/H folks that can't stand the sight of us. Now, many R/H shippers are reasonable people like Kathy, Naama, Zsenya, etc. and don't think that we, our fics, and our views should be eradicated from HP-dom. But some of the others are fanatical and post scary reviews on anything that looks like it may be H/H. I don't know why so many seem so vehemently opposed to our ship. Almost every H/H shipper I've spoken to here, elsewhere, and in private e-mail admits the possibility of R/H in the canon, can name a D/H fic they actually can tolerate reading (if not adore--Cassie *almost* had me wanting Draco for Hermione), and can name odd pairings and slashfics they appreciate. We're a nice, generally tolerant bunch. Just because we support the perfect couple ;) doesn't mean that we are adverse to other points of view. Some of us even write other ships. Finally (in response to an earlier thread), I wouldn't say that the majority of fic writers *are* H/H at this point. That does an extreme disservice to authors like Zsenya, Mrs. Weasley, Anne, Fallen Grace, and a thousand others who wouldn't touch H/H with a ten-foot pole, the MWPP authors (many of whom are doing their best to turn Lily into a Mary Sue), and the dark, angsty writers like Blaise, WolfieTwins, Morrighan, Hyphen, etc. --Shameless plug alert-- BTW, TIP Ch. 2 is up, and HP4GU is in the acknowledgements section for the "Truths in the Wizarding World" thread... Storm and Pippin got special mentions. Here's the URL: http://www.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=story-read&storyid=149525 Also, as we've been talking ships and PoU has come up, TSNE Ch. 4 is over at PoU. Just thought I'd mention it. --Ebony (trying her darndest to win the 2001 Golden Toad Award for Shameless Self-Promotion by a New Author) From catlady at wicca.net Sat Dec 23 21:40:40 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:40:40 -0000 Subject: Various ships / who'll die? In-Reply-To: <923368+6fdv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92364o+711g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7686 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > Of course, my whole theory is blown if she kills off Ron. I don't > really think she will, but admittedly there's a chance. Do we all > agree that Dumble is a goner? Aside from him, I'm thinking we may > lose Hagrid and maybe Lupin. And Sirius may be a marked man as > well. I **HOPE** she doesn't end her series by destroying ALL the characters AND the ENTIRE wizarding world, as Tolkien ended LOTR by sending any surviving magic to Westernesse and rolling the earth into a sphere so we-uns can never touch Westernesse. (I am no way suggesting that JKR imitates JRRT, whom she has said she never read, but surely HP would not be so immensely popular if she had not hit upon something so mythic and archetypal that the archetype of Apocalypse or Ragnarok would fit right in.) But I would not be at all surprised if Harry dies in Book 7, in the process of completely destroying Voldemort (altho' evil, alas, will always be with us, at least as long as free will is). Then, all H/ shippiness would be irrelevant. If Ron and Hermione survived, they might marry and spend their lives as curators at the shrine of Harry's memory, which is the kind of sick thing that human beings do (says the Cat). But I would not be at all surprised if Ron dies sooner than Harry, maybe even in the very next book. JKR's phrase "that's when the deaths begin" suggests that there are a LOT of deaths. Like World War One, in which IIRC more soldiers died than returned Ron would be getting his distinction (dying heroically) as well as doing something that none of his brothers had done yet (dying). But I WOULD be surprised if Hermione dies, as she is the JKR character. Even if the entire wizarding world is destroyed, I would expect Hermione to survive, exiled to the Muggle world, and writing down the whole story as fiction so that at least it will be remembered. This is as good a place as any for me to complain that **no** MWPP/L story can be 'brighter later' (aka 'clearing by midmorning'). They ALL are 'increasing cloudiness' and 'probability of storms'. Oh, I love the happy stories about the fun the Marauders have running around as animals or about J and L's first date, but their lives don't get better as they goes on. They are such wonderful kids, brave and clever and beautiful and funny and strong and loyal, and totally confident that they're going to save the world pretty quickly and then be free to get on with their lives, and totally confident that they'll all live happily ever after, and actually they are DOOMED. They don't know that, but we do. James and Lily die when their child is too young to remember them. Sirius spends 12 years in Azkaban followed by some years as a fugitive hiding in caves and eating rats. Peter is also a fugitive, and even if being a full-time Weasley pet rat is not an unpleasant life for a human being, his fear of discovery and his service to Voldemort are not pleasant to him. Remus, having lost all his friends in one episode, drags through life as an unemployable victim of prejudice. And even the fanfic characters --- Andrea dies, Anika is sentenced to a month in Azkaban and left there for 15 years, Jenny raises her children in hiding as the wife and children of a universally hated traitor murderer. Doom, doom, doom. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 21:44:46 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:44:46 -0000 Subject: The Quotable JKR In-Reply-To: <20001223210417.21558.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9236ce+pb5g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7687 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Sarah Rettger wrote: > > It doesn't surpise me that every one of these > quotations was taken straight from the mouth of > Professor Dumbledore. I've always thought JKR did > some of her best writing with him. If it had been up > to me, though, one more quotation would have been > included in the friendship category: "But from that > moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend. > There are some things you can't share without ending > up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot > mountain troll is one of them." Cool thread, Sarah! I'm a quote fanatic myself... here's some more I'd have in my sig here if I didn't read this list solely on the web. The first few are quotes, but the bottom two are "Three Musketeers" type passages about the Trio in action... as much as I talk ship, their friendship is what made me like the series in the first place: ************** "No good sittin' worryin' about it," Hagrid said. "What's comin' will come, and we'll meet it when it does." --p. 719, GoF, 1st Amer. ed ************** "It does not do to dwell in dreams and forget to live, remember that." (Dumbledore) --p. 214, SS, paperback, 34th Amer. ed ******************** "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared (Sirius) Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" --p. 375, PoA, 23rd Amer. ed. ******************** "We start by recruiting members," said Hermione happily. "I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting." There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face. --p. 225, GoF, 1st Amer. ed. (Scholastic) ******************** (This one's too long for a sig... but if they cut it from the movie or fumble it up, I'll scream! It's the epitome of Harry, Ron, and Hermione's personalities and interaction... I think it's one of my favorites in all of the books. I fell out of my chair howling when I first read it... a snippet of this is over at Yahoo on my member page.) "Stop moving!" Hermione ordered them. "I know what this is--it's Devil's Snare!" "Oh, I'm so glad we know what it's called, that's a great help," snarled Ron, leaning back, trying to stop the plant from curling around his neck. "Shut up, I'm trying to remember how to kill it!" said Hermione. "Well, hurry up, I can't breathe!" Harry gasped, wrestling with it as it curled around his chest. "Devil's Snare, Devil's Snare... what did Professor Sprout say?--it likes the dark and the damp..." "So light a fire!" Harry choked. "Yes--of course--but there's no wood!" Hermione cried. "HAVE YOU GONE MAD?" Ron bellowed. "ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT?" "Oh, right!" said Hermione, and she whipped out her wand and waved it... --p. 277-278, SS, paperback, 24th Amer. ed (Scholastic) *************** I've got loads more, but I'll shut up before I'm kicked off list. :) Are there any more that are favorites? --Ebony From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Dec 23 21:36:46 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:36:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix References: <922qdp+k9dg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e601c06d29$19a7fbe0$4a2907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7688 > But > then when I read GoF again, I realized that Lupin was included in > the "old crowd". > I'd also be curious to hear the speculation on what exactly James, > Lily, and Sirius did to make money. I always suspected they worked as some sort of (now it sounds soooo ridiculous) *special squad* for intelligence or something. Some sort of Auror, but in a more action-like way, working with spies and secret missions. At least that's how I always pictured them. The work sort of ties in with the Aurors who come and finish the dark wizards officially off, once there guilt is discovered. It's really the IMF: Mission Impossible principle, I know, but it gives just sooo many great story ideas! Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Dec 23 21:39:22 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:39:22 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and ambition References: <01C06CE6.ADC4AF00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <006e01c06d78$6c584080$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <00e701c06d29$1a483380$4a2907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7689 > The underlying question: is it even possible for a Gryffindor > to turn traitor--or do future traitors get sent to Slytherin? I always suspected that Pettigrew was in Gryffindor, as well as Remus. On the other hand "there wasn't a single wizard that turned out bad that hadn't been in Slytherin", isn't that the quote? But this didn't cover Sirius, either, so it's not an answer, really. Dinah From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 21:59:18 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:59:18 -0000 Subject: who'll die? In-Reply-To: <92364o+711g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92377m+rlg5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7690 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > They are such wonderful kids, brave and clever and beautiful and funny and strong and loyal, and totally confident that they're going to save the world pretty quickly and then be free to get on with their lives, and totally confident that they'll all live happily ever after, and actually they are DOOMED. They don't know that, but we do. I agree, Rita. As much as we dream us happily ever afters for all of these characters, they are existing in V's shadow, so to speak. "Eat, drink, let's be merry, for tomorrow we die!" It does seem as if many of the happy moments are never without the taint of Things To Come. Anyone else love this Edgar Allan Poe poem? One verse in particular reminds me of the precarious emotional position of several characters in this milieu... "I stand amidst the roar Of a surf-tormented shore, And I hold within my hand Grains of the golden sand-- How few! yet how they creep Through my fingers to the deep, While I weep--while I weep! O God! can I not grasp Them with a tighter clasp? O God! can I not save *One* from the pitiless wave? Is *all* that we see or seem But a dream within a dream?" I'm particularly reminded of the MWPP generation. All of the ones we've met were destroyed in some way by the first war (even Snape, who *I* think is a marked man and who is beginning to fascinate me). The same evil is still in the world and threatens the generation we're reading about now. OK, I'm starting to get a little depressed, and should stop. But for some reason, I'm starting to think that Ron is safe at this point... he can't die in Book 5 and be a kid star in the coinciding movie release of Book 1. *That* would hurt. --Ebony From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 10:42:51 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:42:51 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron and ambition References: <01C06CE6.ADC4AF00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <006e01c06d78$6c584080$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <00e701c06d29$1a483380$4a2907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00b301c06d96$4596b300$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7691 > I always suspected that Pettigrew was in Gryffindor, as well as Remus. On > the other hand "there wasn't a single wizard that turned out bad that hadn't > been in Slytherin", isn't that the quote? But this didn't cover Sirius, > either, so it's not an answer, really. Yes, I had that quote in mind. The question is whether that quote is merely Hagrid's view (and he's either forgetting or ignoring what he believes about Sirius), or whether it's actually Jo speaking through Hagrid to voice a basic parameter of her world. (Again, I'm not saying I want that to be the case--I'd rather it weren't.) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 10:43:47 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:43:47 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron & Hermione per JKR References: <91vrj3+c8sm@eGroups.com> <006d01c06d78$644aca20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A450F76.218B34BC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <00b401c06d96$65941760$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7692 Neil, Heidi and Penny chastened me severely: "Not necessarily." "Not so fast there Mr. Goat!" "Hold thy glee" Rats! I thought if I overstated my case a little, it might help my odds. But I still find the statement interesting. And, while I agree with Neil that H/H may be more logical in the long run, I have a strong feeling that R-H will be a more important romantic axis than H-H, at least in the next book. OTOH, I could well imagine Ron and Hermione developing (over the next book or two) a sputtering romance, that finally gives out when Harry and Hermione discover each other. That might set off a crisis that would spur Ron to herodom or betrayal. (Though I think Ron would end up doing something to redeem himself in the latter case.) Which theory has probably already been advanced by 76 talented fan fic writers and shot down by 135 inspired critics. Oh well ... Hasn't anyone founded an HP betting ring? Or how about a site setting virtual odds on various predictions?? That would be a riot! And it's bedtime, too. I may drop by the chat tomorrow--if not, have a blessed Christmas!! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From summers.65 at osu.edu Sat Dec 23 23:32:23 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:32:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H,H/H and a couple of observations Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7693 >I have noticed something very interesting in all of these shipper >posts. Many people admit to either having been R/H or being R/H for >the canon, but that after reading POU, switched to H/H. So, you're >basing your preference on a fan fiction to begin with! I think PoU is > wonderful, and I love the way that Harry is portrayed (very sexy!). >As a R/H shipper, though, when I read it, I had a mindset of "Well, >it's a nice story, but its only happening because Ron is dead and that >won't happen" because I am convinced by JKR that Ron is a good guy and >not a traitor. > Just to clarify that Ron was NOT portrayed as evil in PoU. He was killed by Voldemort as a swipe at Harry. He didn't betray anything and he didn't go all bad. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Rex Dart, Eskimo Spy" Summers "Sodding sleeping chair's bloody...sodden." --Spike Last movie seen: "Charlie's Angels" Nighttable: "Midwives" by Chris Bohjalian *************************************************** From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Dec 23 23:35:43 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:35:43 -0000 Subject: Ron - relationships - J & L's jobs Message-ID: <923csf+c11g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7694 Okay, as I've gotten caught up on the posts, I see all my last post did was repeat Kimberley's post ( sorry about that). And, I see where many points were attacked. Maybe addressing what the characters 'need' stems from that we're (many of us) adults who have been through all that H, H & R, not to mention G, are just starting to go through now. As adults, we're better understanding what a good, healthy relationship 'needs' and trying to impose that on the canon. I just don't think JKR is going to take it to that depth. I wouldn't expect to learn what Ginny 'needs' in an adult relationship. True, as Rita said, Harry may die, but I'm considering this happening less and less as time goes by. I may think differently by the time OoP comes out; something in it may reinforce the 'Harry's gonna die!' suspicion. But, for now, I'm thinking probably not (that he'll die), and I really hope not Snape either. People keep pointing out that 'opposites attract' doesn't mean the relationship will be good, or even work at all on any level. I do agree with this, IRL, anyway. As for Ron and Herm being the Bickersons, it's usually him needling her, and she reacts, right? He and Harry are both unsure how to 'talk' to girls, maybe he's just still in the 'pester them' stage. Hormones have just really started kicking in. Yes, he drooled over Fleur, as did all the guys, pretty much; but he's probably (unconsciously) mixed up over 'liking' Herm, and seeing her as one of his best friends--a pal, a buddy, a fellow adventurer. These kids are going to do a lot of growing up in the next few books. Maybe Ron will come into his own and mellow out a bit. I know a lot of young men (and women) who did a lot of maturing between 14 and 17, and they never had to face a Vold, either. I still expect Ron to be a smart-aleck (that's his 'role' after all, he makes the wisecracks, he's comic-relief), but in a more good-natured way. I really believe JKR's going to go for the 'happily ever after' angle, the neat and easy tie-up. I never really saw Ginny as whiny, as much as pretty freaked out, btw. We are talking about the CoS Ginny, yes? GoF Ginny was pretty subdued and calm, plus, seemed maturing quite well. Refused to tell her bro and Harry (her crush) whom Herm was going to the ball with, seems like a good start. And, like someone said, we'll see more of her in OoP, and after as well, I'm sure. BTW, Amy was asking about J & L's jobs? JKR said what they did will be important to the story, but yes, James' money and cloak were inherited. And, I do think "Order of The Phoenix" refers to those who fought Vold twenty-five years ago, all the good guys, rather than Dumble's peers. Okay, out again... Kelley From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 24 00:08:43 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:08:43 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <00e601c06d29$19a7fbe0$4a2907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <923eqb+u57k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7695 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > I always suspected [James, Sirius, and Lily] worked as some sort of > (snip) *special squad* for intelligence or something. Some sort of > Auror, but in a more action-like way, working with spies and secret > missions. (snip) The work sort of ties in with the Aurors who come > and finish the dark wizards officially off, once their guilt is > discovered. In my Lily story (this egroup/Files/Fanfic/Fanfic by Catlady), they (James and Sirius on the payroll, Lily and Remus unofficially) are indeed acting as that sort of 'special squad'. But there is little connection between their missions and the assignments given to Aurors. I got the impression from 'Mad-Eye Moody' that Aurors are investigators. When he told Harry to think of becoming an Auror and when he told Hermione to think of becoming an Auror, that was at times when Harry and Hermione were trying to think out solutions to puzzles. And in the Pensieve memory of Karkaroff's second trial, Moody tells Dumbledore 'it took me six months to track him down.' I get the impression that Aurors start with a crime and search backwards to find out who did it (and to get evidence for the trial, except after Crouch gave them permission to execute as well as investigate). While the 'special squad' is pretty much trying to find out what the bad guys are planning to do, and then prevent them from doing it. I suppose there could be an incident in which Our Heroes kill a bad guy in the course of preventing his bad deed, and then the Aurors find the corpse and investigate it as a murder and discover who did it and try Our Heroes as murderers, but I haven't written one. If Our Heroes did kill a bad guy, it would have been by accident or an extremity of self-defense, because James is quite unbearably sanctimomious about We can't kill people without trial or we would be no different from the bad guys. This much irritates me, because they know who so many of the bad guys are, and so many lives (including their own) would have been saved if they had just assassinated the major known bad guys instead of trying to find evidence of specific crimes against them to turn over to the Aurors. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Dec 24 00:17:27 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:17:27 -0000 Subject: Time Magazine article In-Reply-To: <920oh3+r2u4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <923fan+jtog@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7696 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > I finally read the magazine over breakfast. It has an interesting > > section within the Rowling article entitled 'The author on her own > > work: "Harry is an old soul"'. In it, she briefly touches upon > > Hermione's overachievement as compensation for her insecurities, > > Harry's "need-to-know basis" behavior, and Ron's "classic 14 year > > old" demeanor. > > > > She also writes that Harry, in GoF, was "too proud" to talk to Ron > > about their problems and was "walking around thinking "I'm the one > > with all the problems, but Ron had been a faithful friend for three > > years, and I [Rowling] would have cut ron a little more slack." > > Hi Milz and all-- > > I haven't had time to read my Time yet, either, but I turned to the > article you mentioned. Interesting. I wanted it to go on longer... > but then, I always want to read more about the creator of these > novels. > > She also mentioned Ginny. "And what about Ginny (Ron's sister)? > Poor Ginny, languishing in love for Harry, and he's merrily asking > out other girls right in front of her nose! But that's just a boy > thing." > > Score one for the H/G folks, I guess. I hope we see more Ginny in > future books, then... otherwise, I'll have a hard time with it. > > And if we H/Hers have said it once, we've said it a thousand times. > Even if the canon ends H/R, H/G or nothing... we still will believe > in post-canon H/H. > > And far be it from me to argue with the author, but I don't think > Harry was the main one at fault during the disagreement in GoF. I > think they both equally shared the blame... and after all, Ron > started it. What should Harry have done, chased him around and > begged him for his trust? > > I loved this article. Very refreshing break from the same old same > old we usually get from spin machine about and from JKR. Wouldn't it > be nice to actually chat with JKR about all these things in a grown- > up format, instead of her answering the same 10-15 questions in every > chat and every interview? > > --Ebony (who really likes Ron a lot better than she lets on) You're right! That little side article was refreshing. It's so nice to actually read Rowling's opinions about her characters and not the same old, recycled questions. Too bad the side article isn't included on the Time web site. I found it interesting that Rowling pin-points Ron's "oddity" as having an unconventional parent and not the more popular family's- poor-sibling-rivalry reasoning. :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Dec 24 00:23:27 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:23:27 -0000 Subject: Arthur and Muggles (was Pre-Hogwarts education and the Weasleys) In-Reply-To: <01b001c06d0f$1b4297e0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <923flv+36np@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7697 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > warning: this poses a concept then rambles on incoherently. i was tired at > the time. > > Rita (why do I see Skeeter here?) Winston wrote: > > > I really believe that MOST wizarding folk are not as ignorant of > > Muggle culture as the Weasleys are. > > While I understand your view that the Weasleys are patronising of Muggles, I > would expect that other wizards are even more ignorant. > > What amazes me is that they don't study common subjects in the Wizarding > world. Some like Science and Engineering are rendered unnecessary by magic > though still could be interesting (I guess that's what Muggle Studies is > for), but others like Maths, Languages (where did that guy learn them?), > Geography should be very useful. > > Magic can often be so convenient and change form constantly -- I am led to > believe it is not governed by a rational set of laws but by the whim of Jo's > imagination. > > She can often tend to make up answers when confronted with questions instead > of constructing a response to fit with the established world-view. So, while > the books themselves are canon, I would be a little more careful about > taking her answers as definate. > > Simon. Arthur's interest with Muggles and his lack of Muggle cultural knowledge is one of the funniest things in the series, IMO. One would think that he is knowledgeable about Muggle culture, considering his interest and considering his job at the Ministry! I guess Arthur exemplifies someone who knows enough, but not enough to really know. :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Dec 24 00:29:46 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:29:46 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <012801c06d06$32d9cda0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <923g1q+kfl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7698 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > I wonder, has anyone yet tried to interpret what Jo means by the name of the > next book? > > I would appreciate any pointers to good fanfic. > > Simon. Perhaps the Order of the Phoenix was the name of the wizards and witches who organized "Our Side" during the Voldemort years? Or perhaps they are a group of wizards and witches that fight Dark Wizards. Personally, I think the name suits a secret society of mercenary/assassin wizards and witches. :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Dec 24 00:36:27 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:36:27 -0000 Subject: Ron & Hermione per JKR In-Reply-To: <00b401c06d96$65941760$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <923gec+phgu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7699 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > Hasn't anyone founded an HP betting ring? Or how about a site setting > virtual odds on various predictions?? That would be a riot! That would be fun! There could be a relationships betting pool and a death pool. My Death Pool is Dumbledore in Book 6 Snape in Book 7 Harry in Book 7 :-)Milz From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 24 00:44:14 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:44:14 -0000 Subject: Ron's Summer Job (after GoF) Message-ID: <923gsu+i2a2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7700 When I wrote about Cedric's funeral, Harry and Cho and Percy are among the mourners, but the younger Weasleys are not. After weeks of wondering why not, I realised that they were busy with their summer jobs. I am a little worried about Fred and George's summer job -- if they were making Canary Creams and fake wands for Zonko's Joke Shop in Hogmeade and for Gambol and Japes's joke shop in Diagon Alley, they could have committed to deadlines that wouldn't allow them to take a day off for a funeral, but which the venture capital from Harry, they ought to be working on their own business, not as supppliers to other shops, and their own business would give them a day off. But I KNOW where Ron and Ginny are working. When Charlie got them the job, Ron thought it was the best possible summer job, but now he is not so sure. The owner of Ron's beloved Chudley Cannons decided to cash in on the ever-increasing need for childcare by starting a summer Quidditch day camp for primary school children (presumably they already run summer Quidditch Camps for secondary school students who are serious about Quidditch, but that is quite separate). This camp costs more than a regular day camp, which some parents are willing to pay to have their children be enthusiastic instead of whining and sulking about day camp, and the children are enticed by getting to wear Junior Cannons uniforms, and to meet the players and coaches and ask for their autographs, and to improve their Quidditch abilities. The camp must start with some kind of try-outs, because the kids get classes and practises according to their ability level. On the mental side, classes are The Rules of Quidditch, Basic Strategy, and Intermediate Strategy. On the physical side, classes are Basic Broomstick Flying (for kids who maybe have never been on a broom before, mostly five and six year olds), Intermediate Broomstick Flying, Basic Ball Handling (how to throw and catch a Quaffle while standing on the ground with no one interfering, hopefully working up to being able to throw a Quaffle while on a broomstick by the end of the eight weeks), Intermediate Ball Handling (trying to throw and catch the Quaffle while other members of the class are trying to block or intercept the Quaffle), Basic Budger (using bowling balls), Basic Snitch (using golf balls), and penultimately Basic Quidditch - all-kid matches with special weak Bludgers and special slow Snitches. Finally, the top level is Intermediate Quidditch: that's 11 and 12 year olds who might actually get on their House team someday. Of course, these classes are taught by reserve players and deputy assistant junior coaches, while the real players and coaches only make cameo appearances. Ron, now 15, has the job of shepherding eight 10- and 11- year-olds who are at the Basic Quidditch level. He has to escort them to all their classes, lunch, and naptime, while making sure that they don't kill themselves or someone else or destroy too much property. He gets to wear a Camp Cannons uniform and fly a decent broom with a 'property of Chudley Cannons' label, but he also gets to wonder whether he himself was really such a pain only three years ago. Ginny, now 14, is working on the kitchen crew, which has to cook, serve, and clean up after lunches for all those people. Her opinion of the job can be deduced from the fact that she is the anonymous author of the song "We Are Fake House Elves" which the kitchen crew likes to sing. The best part of the job is that grown-ups and staff members (who get to be called Camp Coaches instead of Camp Counsellors) come into the kitchen to beg for snacks and flirt with the kitchen staff, and some of the Camp Coaches are cute, but Ginny does not like being flirted with by fat, old, gray-haired or bald wizards (who work in the Cannons's front office). What Ron and Ginny both like best about the job is the pay: ten Galleons a week each for eight weeks. They'll be going back to Hogwarts with money in their pockets. Ron keeps reminding himself that that is enough for each of them to buy a decent used Comet 260 or for both of them to club together to buy a new Comet 260 or a decent used Nimbus 2000 or Cleansweep Seven. Or, his mental voice reminds him in his own tone of sarcasm, to put a down payment on a new Nimbus 2001 or Cleansweep Eight, but they wouldn't be able to make even one monthly payment.... I doubt that Ron has even asked Ginny whether a racing broomstick is what she wants to do with her money. From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Dec 24 00:49:14 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 24 Dec 2000 00:49:14 -0000 Subject: Poll results for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <977618954.49115@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7701 The following HPforGrownups poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Are you interested in continuing the chapter & character summaries for Goblet of Fire? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, I look forward to them each week, 5 votes, 15.15% - Yes, I don't often comment but I always enjoy them, 24 votes, 72.73% - No, they aren't really stimulating discussion, 4 votes, 12.12% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 24 00:56:49 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:56:49 -0000 Subject: Warner Bros. v. HP websites Message-ID: <923hkh+qud9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7702 The Wall Street Journal Copyright Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2000 Next Up for Wizard Fans: Harry Potter and the Contested Domains --- Warner Bros. Studio Cracks Down On Web Sites by Devotees; Fears of Diluted Copyrights To some fans of Harry Potter, the dark Lord Voldemort isn't the only threat to creative wizardry these days. There's also film studio Warner Bros. The Web has sprouted thousands of unofficial fan pages honoring the popular character from the children's book series. Now Warner Bros., which is making a Harry Potter film, is claiming many of the Web sites violate its intellectual-property rights and is demanding the domain names be surrendered, though it says the fans can continue to run the sites. Warner Bros., a unit of Time Warner Inc., purchased the character's film and merchandising rights, as well as the trademarks and copyrights, from the books' author, J.K. Rowling. Earlier this month, 15-year-old Claire Field of England received a letter from Warner Bros.'s London legal department asking her to turn over the name www.harrypotterguide.co.uk. Like her plucky idol, the girl rebelled. She sent an e-mail to the British newspaper the Mirror, which ran a story about her. A U.K.-based online news site picked up the story, which was soon posted on online fan-related newsgroups. Kids as well as adults around the world are now urging Miss Field to fight back. Despite the studio's statements that it has no plans to close the fan sites, some Harry Potter devotees seem to believe otherwise. "I've just read the news that the Evil Dark Arts experts aka Warner Brothers are trying to cast some dark charms and shut down this site. GOLLY! What total ROT. We have got to get some good charms and wand waving to seriously sort them out," wrote one Harry Potter fan on Miss Field's site. "Companies like these need to be taught a lesson," added another. "Good luck with your site and keep it up." Hollywood studios have a complicated relationship with fan Web sites. While they welcome the publicity they can generate, they fear the sites' potential for diluting their copyrights and trademarks -- particularly if a fan site's domain name incorporates a studio trademark. They also worry that the sites may damage the image of the studios' movies and characters. However, studios have in some instances allowed unauthorized use of their trademarks and copyrights as long as the sites are produced by friendly fans and aren't seeking to make a profit. Lawyers for Paramount Pictures, a unit of Viacom Inc., several years ago began sending warning letters to "Star Trek" fan sites informing them that they were violating copyright laws. The studio subsequently backed off some of its threats as long as the Web sites were run by fans helping to promote the movie and TV series and not part of a commercial venture. Lucasfilm Ltd., the producer of "Star Wars," for several years allowed many of the films' fan sites to flourish. But as the first "Star Wars" movie in 16 years was nearing release in 1999, Lucasfilm executives began reining in some of the more egregious copyright violators by demanding they remove such elements as audio clips from the sites. Nils Montan, a senior intellectual-property lawyer for Warner Bros., says the studio hires "watch services" that monitor the Internet for domain names that involve its intellectual property and trademarks. When such a domain name pops up, the studio contacts its owner, asserts its legal rights and requests that he or she transfer registration to the studio, although the studio says it won't compensate the person beyond the $30 to $50 registration fee initially incurred. Mr. Montan estimates that the studio has "recaptured" about 600 domain names. The studio has about 30,000 trademarks and copyrights, Mr. Montan says, of which about 3,500 have registered domain names. He says that no one has ever successfully challenged the studio in keeping a domain (in fact, most companies have won lawsuits or arbitrations in which their trademarks were used by others in domain names). But he admits that the studio doesn't pursue every potential infringement. "We'll try to get back ones that are important to us commercially," he explains. Recapturing domain names registered by fans is also important because that way the studio can monitor these sites. As the owner of the domain name, Warner Bros. would have the technical capability to shut down a site. It says there have been instances in which Web sites using domain names involving the studio's copyrights and trademarks were selling counterfeit products. In those cases, the studio says, it had the names transferred to the studio and then shut down the sites. Its legal rights notwithstanding, Warner Bros. has enraged many of Harry Potter's loyal fans. Hundreds of site creators in addition to Miss Field have received letters from the studio. Christie Chang, a 15 year old from Singapore, received two letters from Warner Bros.'s lawyers. One says that the fan site, to which she devotes at least an hour a day, violates copyright laws because it depicts various Harry Potter images. The other letter demands the domain name she registered, www.harrypotternetwork.net, and insists she promptly contact them. Miss Chang says she doesn't even use the domain name because she considers it "cheesy." Instead, she houses her fan site at www.hpnetwork.f2s.com. Still, she has removed most images from the site and is scared that one day she'll be forced to close it. Scott Allison, a 28-year-old Scottish computer technician, eventually agreed to transfer his domain name to Warner Bros., but not before casting some evil spells. He posted his plight on his Web site as well as on an online bulletin board for Harry Potter fans. "All I wanted to do was set up a site for fans of Harry Potter, like myself, and now I'm being attacked by a large corporation who know I don't have the financial means to defend myself," he wrote on the site, encouraging people to send e-mails to Warner Bros. Mr. Allison says he sent the studio a letter trying to persuade it to resolve the issue through a domain name dispute resolution service, but the studio didn't go along. In the end, Mr. Allison closed his site, but vowed to keep up the fight. His angry postings on fan chat sites have turned friendly discussions about favorite wizards into less pleasant musings about blue-chip ogres. "Corporate thinking s---- ," wrote one. Others suggested boycotting Harry Potter altogether. "I had an interest in buying Harry Potter books for my nephews as a holiday gift," wrote another. "Looks like Nintendo will get my money instead." In Warner Bros.' view, the letters are standard fare. Mr. Montan, the studio lawyer, says that of the hundreds of letters Warner sent regarding Harry Potter-related domain names, none previously have provoked such ire. He said he is sorry if fans misunderstand Warner Bros.'s intentions -- especially teenagers such as Miss Chang or Miss Field, whose lively Web site features a chat room, quizzes and a dictionary of spells and potions. But, he adds, the company has no way of knowing if the owners are age 10 or 40, or how their future plans using the domain names might affect the Harry Potter brand. Miss Field's Web site clearly states on its opening page that it is an unofficial Harry Potter site with no connections to author J.K. Rowling, Warner Bros., or the books' publishers, Bloomsbury Publishing PLC and Scholastic Inc. (Neither Bloomsbury nor Ms. Rowling, through her agent, would comment on the fan site dispute.) It then gives the Web addresses for each of these companies. But Mr. Montan says that in some cases the owners have turned out to be "cyber-squatters," individuals hoping to make a fast buck off a potentially valuable domain name. Already there is an action pending against someone who has registered nearly 60 domain names using various trademarks related to the series, he adds. Whatever the scenario, he says Warner Bros. can't afford not to act. It already has registered some 2,000 trademarks for made-up Potter words such as Quidditch, a game similar to hockey but played in the air by wizards on broomsticks. Legally speaking, if the company appears to look the other way now, it could have a weaker case in court later. Still, says Mr. Montan: "We try to be light- handed. We don't always succeed, but that's our intent." Miss Field didn't see it that way. In fact, the terse letter the teenager received Dec. 2 from Warner Bros. terrified her. It said Ms. Rowling and Warner Bros. were concerned that Miss Field's domain name registration would likely cause consumer confusion and dilution of its intellectual property rights. It gave her 28 days to transfer the domain name to Warner Bros., offering to reimburse her for the registration fee. "If we do not hear from you by 15 December 2000 we shall put this matter into the hands of our solicitors," it concluded. After the Mirror, the London tabloid, wrote about the dispute, a Warner Bros. spokeswoman, Barbara Brogliatti, jumped in to smooth things over with Miss Field's father, Les Field. However, their correspondences have grown acrimonious, with Mr. Field accusing Ms. Brogliatti of vilifying him and his daughter in the press and Ms. Brogliatti saying the family never should have spoken to the Mirror and suggesting conversations continue through their lawyers. "We're trying to bend over backwards to come up with a unique arrangement to adapt our policy if we can," says Ms. Brogliatti, explaining that Warner Bros. has considered licensing the domain name to Miss Field free of charge. As long as the studio gets final say on content, Miss Field would be allowed to maintain the site and bring in the fans. Nevertheless, all this adult talk is leaving kids confused, and in some cases defiant. Fifteen-year-old Arne Tutschapsky of Germany, creator of fan site harrypotter-buch.de, hasn't heard from Warner Bros., but fears he will soon. "I think it's not fair because people who want to be a Harry Potter fan and create a fan site about this should be able to do it," he says. Says Miss Chang, who operates the site in Singapore, "No one will make me close my site, save maybe my parents." From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 01:08:32 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:08:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7703 So, whom does everyone think will have the DADA job? I mean, i tried to send a post about this before, right after Simon's wondering abot OoP, but i never got it so i assmue no one else did either. Due to Voldemort's return, I think it will be Dumbledore. Doesn't it make sense that he would teach the kids he loves to protect themselves, seeing as he prob knows best? I dont think Snape will ever get it, not even in book 7, Harry will get it, should he live, which i think he will bc the novels would be hard to resolve if harry fights and fights and fights and then dies to end it, i just think his living and seeing his parents "avenged" in a way is how t has to end.... But who does everyone else think? Sirius?, Snape?, someone new? Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 24 01:39:00 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:39:00 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Board Game Message-ID: <923k3k+q9ar@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7704 We just opened the Harry Potter SS Board Game. It badly needs a new set of rules. It goes from terminally lame to impossible. Has anyone successfully played this thing? Gotta go -- the grand kids are asking me to come in and help them with the rules. -JF From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sun Dec 24 02:30:26 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:30:26 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H v H/R; Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7705 In a message dated 12/22/2000 7:08:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, msmacgoo at one.net.au writes: << Personally, *I* think the reason that so much merchandise shows Harry and Hermione but not Ron is that the WB marketting department believes merchandise must have a picture of a boy for boys to buy it and a picture of a girl for girls to buy it. Therefore, one boy (who is the eponym of the whole thing!) and one girl.>> It's actually what they believe will sell the most. Of course it's all about making money! :) And Ron, as a secondary character, they don't believe will sell as much so naturally he is on less items. As it gets closer to the release of the film, there will be a lot more merchandise. Think the stores are flooded now? Heh. Wait until the film's release! << I think it has to do with a deeper prejudices against people with red hair! (not to mention the pillow slips only have two sides) >> LOL! < ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From managirl19 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 02:33:52 2000 From: managirl19 at aol.com (managirl19 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:33:52 EST Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7706 In a message dated 12/23/2000 8:09:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, StephBecvar at hotmail.com writes: > So, whom does everyone think will have the DADA job? I mean, i tried to > send a post about this before, right after Simon's wondering abot OoP, but i > > never got it so i assmue no one else did either. > > Due to Voldemort's return, I think it will be Dumbledore. Doesn't it make > sense that he would teach the kids he loves to protect themselves, seeing as > > he prob knows best? I dont think Snape will ever get it, not even in book > 7, Harry will get it, should he live, which i think he will bc the novels > would be hard to resolve if harry fights and fights and fights and then dies > > to end it, i just think his living and seeing his parents "avenged" in a way > > is how t has to end.... > > But who does everyone else think? Sirius?, Snape?, someone new? > > Stephanie Well, Rowling has said the next will be a woman, so what about Arabella Figg? I know, I know, it's in a few fics (at least, i think so) but it would make sense, no? An auror thatDumbledore knows isn't evil? I doubt Snape's ever going to get it, I mean, that would just be TORTURE to the Gryffindors... and please, Sevvie fans, don't attack me! *grins* I can't wait until the next book, a lot of predictions have been made on this list that I feel are VERY probable, and if they are, heck, I think we should part-ay! Mana ------------------------------------------------------------- Morgana le Fay at FanFiction.net formerly Allegria Winselvern and Lupin's Girl e-mail: managirl19 at aol.com Contacts AOL Instant Messenger : managirl19 MSN Messenger: psycho_mana at hotmail.com ICQ # 84665215 Screen Name: Mana Yahoo Messenger: psycho_mana Napster: PlatinumGarbage Websites Mana's Basement* Wizarding Bulgaria and Durmstrang Institute* Virtual Harry Potter Beauxbatons The Unofficial Harry Potter Fan Club Encyclopedia Potterica *Websites that are mine From zsenya at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 02:55:06 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 02:55:06 -0000 Subject: ooops! Message-ID: <923oia+9ne9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7707 Sorry all - I did *not* mean to imply that Ron is bad or a traitor in PoU - that sentence was just tacked on the end in my usual "defend Ron with all my heart!" mode. Actually, even though he is dead, I really like the role that Ron is given in PoU and I was very happy that he and Hermione shared a very special moment before his death. It was just what I needed to keep going! I also liked that Hermione and Harry had such a hard time getting together *because* of Ron and their respect for his memory. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 03:36:55 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 03:36:55 -0000 Subject: Now I get to annoy you... Message-ID: <923r0n+t5kc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7708 I must admit my few pitiful attempts a FanFic are, erm, just that- pitiful. But I am now writing a real story and I'm going to need some Beta-readers (isn't that what they're called)...that is if anyone's interested. I know that the Holidays are pretty much here but if you could find time tomorrow (Chapter one will probably be done tomorrow) or after Christmas sometime. I'm not in any rush but I shall need some help when the time comes... Any volunteers? (Hey you, don't run away!!) Scott PS: (no not Philosopher's Stone!) if you're interested please e-mail me off list. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 04:20:20 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 04:20:20 -0000 Subject: Ron's Summer Job (after GoF) In-Reply-To: <923gsu+i2a2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <923ti4+rjnr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7709 Thanks for posting this, Rita. I think it's quite plausible... and infinitely useful toward this fan's newfound quest to Understand Ronald Weasley. :) For those of you who celebrate it, Merry Christmas! I'm offline (I think) until late on the 25th or early on the 26th... have a great holiday. --Ebony From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 24 04:27:21 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 04:27:21 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <01d401c06d11$5550e390$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <923tv9+g8up@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7710 Didn't JKR say that the next DADA teacher would be a woman? Didn't Falkes die and be reborn in CoS? I think the Order of the Phoenix is a decoration...sort of like the Order of the Flying Cloud (given to American pilots flying for China against Japan, just prior to WWII) Susan From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 04:29:46 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 04:29:46 -0000 Subject: Ron's Summer Job and broom models In-Reply-To: <923gsu+i2a2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <923u3q+g92f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7711 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: When Charlie got them the > job, Ron thought it was the best possible summer job, but now he is > not so sure. The owner of Ron's beloved Chudley Cannons decided to > cash in on the ever-increasing need for childcare by starting a > summer Quidditch day camp for primary school children (presumably > they already run summer Quidditch Camps for secondary school students > who are serious about Quidditch, but that is quite separate). > > > Ron, now 15, has the job of shepherding eight 10- and 11- year-olds > who are at the Basic Quidditch level. He has to escort them to all > their classes, lunch, and naptime, while making sure that they > don't kill themselves or someone else or destroy too much property. > He gets to wear a Camp Cannons uniform and fly a decent broom with a > 'property of Chudley Cannons' label, but he also gets to wonder > whether he himself was really such a pain only three years ago. > What Ron and Ginny both like best about the job is the pay: ten > Galleons a week each for eight weeks. They'll be going back to > Hogwarts with money in their pockets. Ron keeps reminding himself > that that is enough for each of them to buy a decent used Comet 260 > or for both of them to club together to buy a new Comet 260 or a > decent used Nimbus 2000 or Cleansweep Seven. Or, his mental voice > reminds him in his own tone of sarcasm, to put a down payment on a > new Nimbus 2001 or Cleansweep Eight, but they wouldn't be able to > make even one monthly payment.... I doubt that Ron has even asked > Ginny whether a racing broomstick is what she wants to do with her > money. Perfect; I'd love to see this done as a fanfic, rather than just a treatment! As for the type of broom he wants; I always thought that the Nimbus 2000 would've had an awfully short production run, unless it was kept around as a cheaper model after the 2001 came out, maybe even with a reduction in price (they do this with computers all the time; the low end model is last year's middle-of-the-line or the top model of three years ago) From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 24 04:32:27 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 04:32:27 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <922pad+5ivs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <923u8r+4lrt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7712 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > "Given that Professor Dumbledore states that if he saw himself in the > Mirror of Erised, he would be holding a pair of thick wool socks, > might he have been a house elf? Perhaps there is a progressions where > House Elf becomes Wizard, and that is a progresion which is > particularly powerful." > > Erm, perhaps not. There was a lot of discussion on this topic back in > October. Try the dissusions starting with post 3301 which BTW you > instigated... > Hey, Scott, I read my own posts just fine, thanks..... This was a new thought about the socks, and I don't think any definitive decisions were made about the socks. In all seriousness, (since my post about House Elves/and superpowerful wizards was a little bit of a joke), there is more to the whole issue of house elves than we yet know. Also, other magical creatures...goblins, house elves, who else? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 24 04:54:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 04:54:07 -0000 Subject: Marty's Devil's Advocate Post In-Reply-To: <91vtsf+b781@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <923vhf+jlmq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7713 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" > wrote: > > > > Yes. In this scenario, JKR neatly side-stepped Harry's need to > > make a public choice between his two best friends. > > I don't have my copy of GoF here (its out earning its living), but as > I recall, Harry was thinking that "its much less fun, and much more > hanging in the library" when Hermione is your best friend. That would > imply that normally (when they're not not talking) Harry considers > Ron his best friend. > > > > > **Could we assume that Hermione dated Krum to try to win Harry's > > attention? Was she trying to goad a reaction from him (or, let's be > > fair, from Ron)? > Naama says: > To be fair - from Ron. I think we should assume that Viktor Krum is the first boy/man to pay serious attention to Hermione. Harry and Ron are obviously both too immature to do anything but have fantasies about girls. Does Harry seek Cho out for conversation? No, he just imagines her face as he wins the TriWizard Cup. Ron is gaga about Fleur Delacoeur, but again, this is fantasy, and a hormonal response to her obvious physical charms. He has no interest in her as a person. JKR obviously believes that girls are more socially mature than boys at this age. Hermione is obviously flattered by Viktor's attention. He is, after all, an international Quidditch star. He is genuinely interested in Hermione, seeks her out, asks her to visit him over the holidays. She likes him and is flattered, but also obviously, is still more interested in her studies, her buddies, and fighting the good fight (against Voldemort and Rita Skeeter). She likes transforming herself so she can demonstrate that the bookworm can be glamorous, and it's fun going as the partner of one of the champions. She's not trying to goad a reaction from anyone. After Ron pitches a jealous fit (indicating her interest), she suggests that he ask her out first next time. They become oddly formal with each other; JKR says something is going on between them. It seems fairly conclusive to me, and I continue to be mystified that there is all this hoopla about it. > > > **Is it me, or was Harry not overly bothered that Hermione was > > Krum's 'thing he'd miss most' after such a brief dalliance with > her? > > If that were me, in a parallel situation, I'd be brimming with > > jealousy. I suppose we should wonder whether Harry is not bothered > > at all about Hermione or just encased in a teenaged ignorance of > > romance (we are talking about 14 year olds, let's not forget). > > He just isn't bothered. And just to remind all you H/H shippers - Ron > was, very much so! > > > > > **How did the Tournament organisers know 'the thing you'd miss > most' > > in each case? IIRC, the contestants weren't asked about this. Did > > the judges read their minds or did they ask the other students and > > teachers for their views? If the latter is the case for Harry, I > > think Ron may well have been chosen over Hermione in a poll of the > > Hogwarts' contingent. > > I would think that each contestant's most important thing was > revealed through magic. Prbably through the magic of the contest > itself. > > > > **On balance, would Harry have decided he'd miss Cho(an unrequited > > crush) more than Ron or Hermione, if Cedric hadn't chosen Cho? In > > other words, could Ron have been Harry's third choice? > > Someone said this on a previous post and it bears repeating - Cho, as > a crush, is a fantasy for Harry. Ron and Hermione and real, > long-standing friends. Think from your experience - who would *you* > miss most? > > > **Could Harry (somehow) have named Ron, because he thought Ron > needed > > a public affirmation of his friendship to boost his self esteem, > > whereas Hermione did not? > Naama says: > Grrrr. You admitted that they were not asked about this. Besides, > Harry was totally surprised when Dobby told him that Ron (Wheezy, I > think he called him?) was involved. > Susan says: Of course they weren't told. It was magic. Dumbledore or someone ascertained what they would miss most. As I said above, Viktor is seriously interested in Hermione. Harry is not yet romantically interested in anyone; he has fantasies and desires, and as JKR says, about the wrong person for him. The thing he would miss most is his best friend....Wheezy. From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 24 05:01:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:01:34 -0000 Subject: Amy and Laurie (OT) In-Reply-To: <9229r2+9ngd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <923vve+f7et@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7714 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > I don't take this as evidence that Hermione is not his best friend > > too. In Chapter Two, "The Scar", he first imagines Hermione's > > reaction to the pain in his scar. Then, "And so he tried to > remember > > his *other* best friend, Ron Weasley's, reaction..." (21-22, > emphasis mine) > > > > Good point. > > I still don't think Laurie and Amy were suited in *Little Women*, > >and will never believe that they were. > > > YES!!! I've always thought so too. Have you noticed that as soon as > the heroine grow up (Jo, in this case), she turns from a precocious, > adventurous, interesting child, to a boring, predictable woman? Anne > went through the same process. I've often wondered about this. > > Naama Our views of Amy are colored (imvho) by Louisa May Alcott's views of her own sister (who was the prototype for Amy) - she really didn't like her at all. Alcott says that she, Jo, was never in love with Laurie/Teddy.....hmmmm...perhaps she didn't know her own mind. I find the grown up Jo of Little Men and Jo's Boys as quite interesting, and intelligent. It's a little hard to read, because women's roles were so strictly circumscribed in those days. OT, Jesse's Uncle was reading to him the book "You forgot your skirt, Amelia" which is about Amelia Bloomer's dress reform. It's almost unbelievable that she was spat upon and ridiculed, and women were ostracized for not wearing a skirt (dress code in school until I was in 11th grade)every single moment of every single day. There was so much uproar that even the women in the Suffrage movement stopped wearing Bloomers because they decided that it was detracting from their message. (the book makes the point that mostly women can wear what they want these days). Jesse's uncle had no idea that this was really history. I also continued to find Anne quite interesting as an adult, it was Gilbert that faded away.... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Dec 24 05:07:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:07:23 -0000 Subject: R/H,H/H and a couple of observations In-Reply-To: <922av3+teuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9240ab+e8al@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7715 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, zsenya at y... wrote: > > Also, I realize that in real life, people rarely end up with their > school sweethearts, but I get the impression that at Hogwarts it is > more common - maybe because the wizarding community is relatively > close-knit. > well, we know that Molly and Arthur were sweethearts at Hogwarts, and we assume Lily and James were.... There's one couple from my high school who've been together ever since..... Susan From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 24 05:21:45 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 05:21:45 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <923u8r+4lrt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <924159+bq4r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7716 > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " > wrote: > > Susan McGee wrote: > > "Given that Professor Dumbledore states that if he saw himself in > the > > Mirror of Erised, he would be holding a pair of thick wool socks, > > might he have been a house elf? Perhaps there is a progressions > where > > House Elf becomes Wizard, and that is a progresion which is > > particularly powerful. We take for granted the privileges we have, and desire only those we do not. The enslaved Dobby would yearn for socks - but what need would the liberated Dobby have for them, beside the mere utilitarian purpose of keeping his feet warm? Would any person be strong enough to look into the Mirror of Erised ("Desire") to see only that which he already had? I doubt that Dumbledore was ever a house elf. He hasn't the proper accent, the proper nose, and has yet to bang his head. - CMC From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 06:20:09 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:20:09 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7717 In a message dated 12/23/00 12:14:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: > I still agree with you in that my general observation is that older HP fans > tend to favor H/H more often than R/H. > Interesting. Until I joined this group I always believed the younger fans leaned toward an H/H romance. Was I ever wrong! This belief was based on other message boards and the lack of evidence presented by these young H/H shippers. I always thought that they weren't seeing JKR's true intentions as an adult would and that in their naivety, these youths were making the obvious mistake of pairing Harry - the title character with Hermione - the one strong female presented so far. IMO they were doing so without regard to any of the clues left by the author. From my view, they weren't picking up the feelings JKR was conveying. Obviously I was wrong in assuming anything. While I am not (and doubt I will ever be) convinced, the pro H/H arguments fascinate me. Personally, I felt from the time I read SS/PS that JKR would develop a romance between the Ron and Hermione. With each subsequent book and with each rereading I have only become more convinced that is the course she will take. Also, until I joined this group (which is the same time I began reading fanfic - starting with PoU) I wasn't any sort of shipper. That is not to say that I didn't like the idea of an R/H pairing, but only that the possibility of an H/H pairing never, ever occurred to me. I love the H/H arguments you've all presented, but I really have to go with my gut on this one. When I read the books I don't feel H/H whereas R/H I *feel*. As for my theory.... I could be totally off-base but from what I've observed since joining this group it seems those that are H/H-ers are much more vocal (about everything, not just their ship preference). This to me is a Hermione trait. She participates at every opportunity and she always has an answer or comment. Whereas, the R/H-ers seem to remain quiet until something really strikes them (and then you can't get them to shut up ). This is more Ron's style. I feel that I relate more to the character of Ron than Hermione. While I do love her, aside from doing well in school I am nothing like Hermione. I have much more in common with the wisecracking, laid-back, slightly insecure, adorable , Ron. Do the other (what are we up to, three or four?) R/H-ers feel they relate more to Ron? Do the H/H-ers relate to Hermione? Just wondering, -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 24 09:02:12 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:02:12 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA (possibilities) References: Message-ID: <006201c06d88$5275b700$5c3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7718 Mana said, re. the next DADA teacher: > Well, Rowling has said the next will be a woman, so what about Arabella Figg? > I know, I know, it's in a few fics (at least, i think so) but it would make > sense, no? An auror thatDumbledore knows isn't evil? I doubt Snape's ever > going to get it, I mean, that would just be TORTURE to the Gryffindors... and > please, Sevvie fans, don't attack me! *grins* I can't wait until the next > book, a lot of predictions have been made on this list that I feel are VERY > probable, and if they are, heck, I think we should part-ay! I think JKR confirmed that there "will be a female DADA teacher," without specifying that she would appear in Book 5. My guess is that the real Mad-Eye Moody will teach DADA in the next book. He was Dumbledore's choice the previous year and, IMO, there is no reason he would not offer him the job again, given the dearth of suitable candidates. As for a future female DADA teacher, Mrs Figg is a possibility. I also think McGonagall might be moved to that job, leaving room for a new Transfiguration professor (a reformed Rita Skeeter, perhaps?). However, the most likely option is that JKR will write an entirely new and totally magnetic female DADA teacher with an unusual quirk. Place your bets please on the following: (a) She will have a rotating head and telescopic neck. (b) She will have pulsating blue flesh and a spare pair of arms. (c) She will be a chipmunk animagus with a deceptively chipper personality. (d) She will be a gynoid, built by Voldemort to infiltrate the enemy camp. (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 12:02:01 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:02:01 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] socks References: <921hm2+10m3u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7719 Lol! Made people at work look at me funny when I sprayed tea out of my nose. (Sorry) yael ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 8:45 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] socks Given that Professor Dumbledore states that if he saw himself in the Mirror of Erised, he would be holding a pair of thick wool socks, might he have been a house elf? Perhaps there is a progressions where House Elf becomes Wizard, and that is a progresion which is particularly powerful. Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 12:35:14 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:35:14 -0000 Subject: DADA (possibilities) In-Reply-To: <006201c06d88$5275b700$5c3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <924qi2+t1sd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7720 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > As for a future female DADA teacher, Mrs Figg is a possibility. I also think McGonagall might be moved to that job, leaving room for a new Transfiguration professor (a reformed Rita Skeeter, perhaps?). However, the most likely option is that JKR will write an entirely new and totally magnetic female DADA teacher with an unusual quirk. Place your bets please on the following: > > (a) She will have a rotating head and telescopic neck. > (b) She will have pulsating blue flesh and a spare pair of arms. > (c) She will be a chipmunk animagus with a deceptively chipper personality. > (d) She will be a gynoid, built by Voldemort to infiltrate the enemy camp. > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a > woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as > he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. > > Neil > _____________________________________ LOL! Well, I think you've been beaten to it by the fic writers! Actually, I've never actually seen the female DADA teacher with removable/extra body parts, but I have seen her with various powers of metamorphosis, extra magical powers, I've seen her as a spy of Voldie's and I've also read the fic about Snape being a transvestite/transsexual, though I don't think he became DADA teacher in it. Siriusly, I think she'll be a New Character, but hopefully she won't bear any similarity to anything we've thought of. Speaking of fics, everyone who wants a good laugh should read Moon's latest fic, 'Remus in Furs,' which is just plain brilliant. It's a parody of Mary Sue-ism again - a Mary Sue is a Dark creature more dangerous than a werewolf... anyway, read it. Merry Christmas, everyone! -Blaise From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 12:39:25 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:39:25 -0000 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <924qpt+tu5v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7721 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/23/00 12:14:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, > pennylin at s... writes: > > As for my theory.... > I could be totally off-base but from what I've observed since joining this > group it seems those that are H/H-ers are much more vocal (about everything, > not just their ship preference). This to me is a Hermione trait. She > participates at every opportunity and she always has an answer or comment. > Whereas, the R/H-ers seem to remain quiet until something really strikes them > (and then you can't get them to shut up ). This is more Ron's style. > > I feel that I relate more to the character of Ron than Hermione. While I do > love her, aside from doing well in school I am nothing like Hermione. I have > much more in common with the wisecracking, laid-back, slightly insecure, > adorable , Ron. > > Do the other (what are we up to, three or four?) R/H-ers feel they relate > more to Ron? Do the H/H-ers relate to Hermione? Well ... I'm an R/H-er but the character I identify with most is Hermione. So.. not good for your theory, I'm afraid. Naama From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Mon Dec 25 01:02:09 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 02:02:09 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA (possibilities) References: <006201c06d88$5275b700$5c3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <011d01c06e0e$56d0dce0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7722 > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a > woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as > he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. Certainly not! Severus Snape is actually James, and suffers from a multiple-corporality disorder (=a single person trapped in two different bodies). So he obviously can't be a woman. Merry Christmas! (Isn't someone around going to give us an HP4GU rendition of "Twas the night before Christmas"?) Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From ymekelly at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 13:01:59 2000 From: ymekelly at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Yamil=E9e_Emmanuel-Kelly?=) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:01:59 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <012801c06d06$32d9cda0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <924s47+dbgb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7723 I think the Order of the Phoenix has to do with Harry and Voldermort's wands. They both have the Phoenix feathers in their wands. Maybe the Order is a special group who get the Phoenix feathered wands. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 13:18:52 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:18:52 -0000 Subject: Pre-Hogwarts education and the Weasleys In-Reply-To: <921ad1+tnts@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <924t3s+if01@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7724 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > I really believe that MOST wizarding folk are not as ignorant of > Muggle culture as the Weasleys are. I'm not sure what you base this on. In GoF a lot of the wizards at the match don't know how to use matches, and practically all of them (except Crouch) wear odd assortments of muggle clothes. I should say that most wizards do not even know about eklectricity. Its Arthur's enthusiasm combined with ignorance that make him so (endearingly) ridiculous. > > 2) Arthur's fondness for Muggles is a patronizing kind of fondness. > For example, when explaining the Muggle-repellent spells around the > World Cup stadium in GoF, he remembers to follow up his remarks > about Muggles with something like "Bless their little hearts". When > he asked Harry about electricity and telephones, his commented was > "Amazing how they've been able to get along without magic." > > Thus, from him to send his CHILDREN to be educated by Muggle would > be like an American business person in a Third World country who > admires the local people for their folk songs, their handicrafts, > their friendliness to strangers, sending hisir children to be > educated by the local people in folk songs, handicrafts, food > gardening, forest hunting instead of sending them to a school that > would teach them the courses required for college admission, like > chemistry and calculus. It would be the classical example of the anthropologist going native. Naama From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 13:58:49 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:58:49 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <9215vd+8dli@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <924vep+vjg6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7725 Kimberly: "However if it is Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, everyone's happy. Harry gets not only a girl who adores him (and I'm hoping for some proof in the future that she's worthy of him as well, since she's not very fleshed-out yet), he also gets the family he's always lacked, and who have specifically shown him the only familial love he's ever had." My feelings exactly about Ginny and Harry; she's likely to be as loyal and loving as her mother is, and Harry's going to need it. I hope Ron and Hermione are happy, but I can't see them together, even though JKR is hitting us over the head with it. Read Ebony Elizabeth's excellent fic, which is taking a look at R/H gone sour. I think marrying into the loving Weasley family would be very good for Harry. Kimberley:"If Harry and Hermione were to end up together, Ron would be on the outside of the threesome and it would ruin the great balance of the friendships the three of them have. With Ron and Hermione together, there would not be this lopsidedness, if only because Harry is the protagonist, and thus not likely to be marginalized. Plus Harry and Hermione together, as a muggle-born and a muggle-raised, would be on the fringes of the wizarding world in regards to culture and tradition." An additional point I hadn't thought of. There must be a schism in wizarding society that leads to a lot of misunderstanding: some wizards, like the Weasleys, are completely lost in the Muggle world, while others, like Harry and Hermione, can move in both. This could create real problems in wizard society, and in marriage too. Kimberley:"I'm hoping that if this isn't the way it goes, that nobody will be paired up when the series ends." Me too, but don't be surprised if Harry isn't paired up. He's likely to be the Hero, the "man alone", so taken up by his quest and his ordeal he hasn't got anything left for another person. In other words, like Frodo. I hope not for his sake. Don't just dream, write. We all like new fic by people with ideas. From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 14:24:16 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:24:16 EST Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA (possibilities) Message-ID: <9a.de8f7ce.27776110@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7726 My guess is that the real Mad-Eye Moody will teach DADA in the next book. He was Dumbledore's choice the previous year and, IMO, there is no reason he would not offer him the job again, given the dearth of suitable candidates. This never crossed my mind but it's totally feasible IMHO. > (a) She will have a rotating head and telescopic neck. > (b) She will have pulsating blue flesh and a spare pair of arms. > (c) She will be a chipmunk animagus with a deceptively chipper personality. > (d) She will be a gynoid, built by Voldemort to infiltrate the enemy camp. > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a > woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as > he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. > LOL! My votes on e. Seriously though, do folks believe that Snape actually wants the DADA position? IMO it's all speculation and rumor on behalf of the students. 1) Snape is way too passionate about potions. 2) In CoS, I'm positive we are told that Lockhart was the ONLY applicant for the DADA position. There are a lot of blanks about Snape and I think the students have filled them in based on their feelings toward Snape and not with actual facts. I really don't think Snape wants or ever did want the DADA job. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 14:32:23 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:32:23 -0000 Subject: Warner Bros. v. HP websites In-Reply-To: <923hkh+qud9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9251dn+10k6d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7727 This whole thing is a new technology/Internet conumdrum that eventually will have to be decided by legislation or the Supreme Court (in the US, anyhow) Owners of copyrights must defend them or lose them. The most famous case is how Bayer lost the rights to their trademark "aspirin", or how the rights to the word "thermos" were lost. So Warner's has a legitimate worry. OTOH, there is a "fair use" doctrine and free speech issues that haven't been settled. What if Firestone could suppress the use of its trademarks in discussions of all the tires that blew up? What if the Harry Potter movie is a turkey? What are you supposed to call groups about Harry Potter? Do we have to call *him* You Know Who also? Warner's probably copyrighted You Know Who anyhow. Some of the folks who surrendered their site names might not have had to do that, but they know they haven't got a chance against an army of Warner Brothers lawyers. Justice belongs to those who can afford it; and if the facts are against you and the law fails, try bullying. Here's what I think is fair: Non-profit Web sites shouldn't have to give up their registrations. They should have to post a notice on the banner page acknowledging their unofficial status and Warner's copyrights. Warner's copyrights should not be in peril because non-profit fan sites use a copyrighted name. Warner, in their own promotional self-interest and to forestall bad publicity, ought to make images available at low rates or no rates to fan sites, and the sites ought to put the "(c) Warner Brothers, used by permission" on them. Warner's benefits by these sites; they build a hard-core fan base and buzz that's very much to their advantage. They should acknowledge that and know that their legitimate rights are protected. From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 14:41:39 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:41:39 -0000 Subject: DADA (possibilities) In-Reply-To: <9a.de8f7ce.27776110@aol.com> Message-ID: <9251v3+ksmt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7728 Mo:"(e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs." I second the LOL!! Too bad the late Ed Wood ("Glen or Glennda?") isn't still around to make THAT movie. Maybe John Waters? You may be right Snape doesn't really want the DADA job. Dumbledore certainly won't give it to him; it would be like giving a recovering alcoholic the keys to the liquor cabinet. From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 14:47:57 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:47:57 -0000 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9252at+kt4j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7729 Where do us relatively rare Harry/Ginny shippers fit into your theory structure? From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 24 15:02:35 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:02:35 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA (possibilities) References: <9a.de8f7ce.27776110@aol.com> Message-ID: <000c01c06dba$a1c71f60$e63670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7730 Mo said: > Seriously though, do folks believe that Snape actually wants the DADA > position? IMO it's all speculation and rumor on behalf of the students. 1) > Snape is way too passionate about potions. 2) In CoS, I'm positive we are > told that Lockhart was the ONLY applicant for the DADA position. There are a > lot of blanks about Snape and I think the students have filled them in based > on their feelings toward Snape and not with actual facts. I really don't > think Snape wants or ever did want the DADA job. This has undoubtedly been said already, but if Dumbledore is using Snape as a double agent against Voldemort, he would surely not want him in the DADA position. IMO, Snape would find it more difficult to persuade Voldemort that he was prepared to betray Dumbledore if he was teaching the students Defence Against The Dark Arts rather than Potions. That said, I'm sure Snape would like nothing better than to teach DADA and the students may have picked up on this without realising why Dumbledore keeps overlooking him for the post. Neil A Merry Christmas to everyone! PS - I probably won't make the chat either this week.... then again, I might. _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 15:25:17 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:25:17 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) Message-ID: <5e.4fe468f.27776f5d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7731 In a message dated 12/24/00 9:55:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, jferer at yahoo.com writes: > Where do us relatively rare Harry/Ginny shippers fit into your theory > structure? > Good question - I don't know. I will say that I am also an H/G-er. Anyway my theory is most likely bunk. But hey, I tried. That's what happens when you stay up all night reading 200+ emails. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 15:31:49 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:31:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: DADA (possibilities) Message-ID: <25.f1a0113.277770e5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7732 In a message dated 12/24/00 9:44:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, jferer at yahoo.com writes: > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that > he is a woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call > him 'Selinda' as he makes the transition. He turns out to have great > legs. > > I second the LOL!! Too bad the late Ed Wood ("Glen or Glennda?") isn't > still around to make THAT movie. Maybe John Waters? > Definitely, it's right up John Waters' alley. : ) Snape would have to move to Baltimore though. LOL John would have to play Snape too.....I would absolutely see that movie! > You may be right Snape doesn't really want the DADA job. Dumbledore > certainly won't give it to him; it would be like giving a recovering > alcoholic the keys to the liquor cabinet. > I am right , Snape doesn't want it. But you are right, Dumbledore probably wouldn't give it to him if he did but not because he's a recovering Death Eater. It would be because the parents would have a fit. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 15:38:32 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:38:32 EST Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA (possibilities) Message-ID: <36.fc8cc56.27777278@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7733 In a message dated 12/24/00 10:05:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, neilward at dircon.co.uk writes: > This has undoubtedly been said already, but if Dumbledore is using Snape as > a double agent against Voldemort, he would surely not want him in the DADA > position. IMO, Snape would find it more difficult to persuade Voldemort > that he was prepared to betray Dumbledore if he was teaching the students > Defence Against The Dark Arts rather than Potions. That said, I'm sure > Snape would like nothing better than to teach DADA and the students may have > picked up on this without realising why Dumbledore keeps overlooking him for > the post. > I would think that the DADA postion would be just as good as any of the others. The fact that Snape (as a double-agent) is in Hogwarts is what's important. However, if you're a spy for Voldemort isn't the DADA position the best possible cover? I'm still sure that Snape doesn't want the position. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Dec 24 16:02:32 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Marianna Pucik) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:02:32 +0100 Subject: DADA (possibilities), I'm back, etc. References: <006201c06d88$5275b700$5c3570c2@c5s910j> <011d01c06e0e$56d0dce0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A461E18.EBC13198@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7734 > (a) She will have a rotating head and telescopic neck. > (b) She will have pulsating blue flesh and a spare pair of arms. > (c) She will be a chipmunk animagus with a deceptively chipper personality. > (d) She will be a gynoid, built by Voldemort to infiltrate the enemy camp. > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a > woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as > he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. Someone explain to this stupid high-schooler what a gynoid is, please? Anyway...I'll go for choice b), just because I like Snape too much as a male to pick e). Although, like Blaise, I've read Hyphen's 'Snape's Sister Serafina', and would highly recommend it to anyone interested. No DADA post, but corsets and Remus Lupin abound. Aberforth's Goat wrote: > > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a > > woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' > as > > he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. > > Certainly not! Severus Snape is actually James, and suffers from a > multiple-corporality disorder (=a single person trapped in two different > bodies). So he obviously can't be a woman. LOL. On Shipping: I seem to be in a very distinct minority, as a Harry/Cho shipper...mind you, after they've gotten to know each other better, mourned Cedric, etc. Although I think it's perfectly plausible that Cedric and Cho were just close friends, not together in a romantic sense... By the way, hi everybody! It's me, Firebolt, back after a two-month-plus long e-mail exile. Outlook Express crashed, and the volume of e-mails on this list added to my slow computer meant that I couldn't read messages on-site. I'm now officially lurking again, although I can't make the chat today because for me it starts at 8 PM, and evenings on Christmas Eve are Family Time (especially since it's my brother's birthday). Asking 'what did I miss?' would be a bit lacking in intelligence on this list, so I'll just ask two questions: 1. How many of Peg Kerr's Seven Heavenly Virtue essays did I miss ;)? I read the first two (Faith and something else?), but haven't seen the others. 2. What is the deal with the 9th edition of GoF and Priori Incantatem? From what I gather, the text's been changed... Other HP tidbits in my life include my now possessing PS in Japanese and Finnish (plus getting GoF in French for Christmas), and the distinct possibility of my doing my media portfolio (major grade in French) on Pottermania. Merry Christmas! ~Firebolt From amy at pressroom.com Sun Dec 24 16:15:54 2000 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:15:54 -0500 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <200012241115.AA1539768544@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7735 Hi! I'm new to the list as a few days and have been reading all this fascinating conversation! I never knew much about fan fiction and now I'd love to start reading some of these stories. My name is Amy, I'm 25 and live in the Washington, DC area. I first started reading Harry Potter last year and am currently rereading the books. I am going to start POA again. I don't have much to add now but hopefully I will later. Hi Ebony who I recognize from the kindred spirits list! Amy From amy at pressroom.com Sun Dec 24 16:18:37 2000 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:18:37 -0500 Subject: Ron/Hermione Message-ID: <200012241118.AA931266900@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7736 Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm for a R/He relationship if and when it happens ;) More on this later! Amy From zsenya at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 16:19:04 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:19:04 -0000 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9257lo+7f1m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7737 I suppose I will delurk any time Ron's name comes up in conversation... > When I read the books I don't feel H/H whereas R/H I *feel*. Me too! > As for my theory.... > I could be totally off-base but from what I've observed since joining this > group it seems those that are H/H-ers are much more vocal (about everything, > not just their ship preference). This to me is a Hermione trait. She > participates at every opportunity and she always has an answer or comment. > Whereas, the R/H-ers seem to remain quiet until something really strikes them > (and then you can't get them to shut up ). This is more Ron's style. I guess that is why I have to delurk every time Ron's name is taken in vain! > I feel that I relate more to the character of Ron than Hermione. While I do > love her, aside from doing well in school I am nothing like Hermione. I have > much more in common with the wisecracking, laid-back, slightly insecure, > adorable , Ron. > > Do the other (what are we up to, three or four?) R/H-ers feel they relate > more to Ron? Do the H/H-ers relate to Hermione? > > Just wondering, > -Mo > Mo - I certainly relate to Hermione a bit - I was very smart as a girl and loved to read. However, I do feel that I am actually more like Ron, so maybe your theory is correct. I didn't have the utmost respect for teachers in school the way that Hermione does. I was very laid back and a bit insecure. I wasn't a blatant rule breaker, but I didn't mind doing it either. Also, I always seemed to have friends who were either more well known, more popular, more successful with the boys, etc. I was the sidekick - not as glamorous, or as troubled, or as punk rock, or as pretty as most of my friends. As a matter of fact, if I run into people from high school now, eventually they will ask, "how is so and so" because they always seem to associate me with someone else. Sometimes I would get jealous, as Ron does, but I suppose that one of the reasons that I am so convinced that Ron will be a true friend is that those disagreements and spats never lasted very long and I still have those friends, 10 years after high school. I have never felt jealousy so strongly as I did in high school, but now that I am grown up, I can look back on it with a bit of humor (and maybe smugness that in the long run I am glad that I didn't have the things that I was jealous for most of the time). :)Zsenya From Ellimist15 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 17:04:13 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:04:13 EST Subject: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: <50.f33bf3b.2777868d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7738 Amy said: << I'd be curious to hear speculation too. The only thing I can think of is that the Order of the Phoenix is the "old crowd" - the ones that fought against Voldermort before. At first I thought that the old crowd we're just the *old crowd* - Dumbledore's peers. We know that Mrs. Figg is apparently older, at least in Harry's eyes. But then when I read GoF again, I realized that Lupin was included in the "old crowd". >> Yes, I agree that the "Order of the Phoenix" is most likely the "old crowd". I also recall several interesting suggestions the last time we discussed this topic. Steve: The "Order" of the Phoenix. Of course, it means order as in a religious order or the Order of Merlin 1/c, that sort of thing. Or maybe, just maybe, it refers to the order of spells coming out of a phoenix-feather-equiped wand caught in Priori Incantatem... Eggplant: Or maybe "order" as in command, maybe the bird is getting bossy. Or maybe "order" as in organized, maybe the bird is a neat freak. CMC: Or maybe "order" as in Fawkes dropping by Honeydukes and ordering a large Butterbeer to go. Steve: And this was verbal, right? So we really are just assuming that what she said was "order." Maybe she said The ODOR of the Phoenix! Aha! Let's see how far we can run with THAT. Ok, back on topic. Dumbledore mentions three people when referring to the "old crowd": Remus Lupin, Arabella Figg, and Mundungus Fletcher. We are all familiar with Lupin, and we've discussed Arabella Figg enough already, but where have we heard the name "Mundungus Fletcher" before? It was in chapter 3 of "Chamber of Secrets". Mr. Weasley: Nine raids. Nine! And old Mundungus Fletcher tried to put a hex on me when I had my back turned. Let's see what this starts... Ellie From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 17:30:43 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:30:43 -0000 Subject: Ships Ahoy/Happy Anniversary/500 Members! In-Reply-To: <200012241115.AA1539768544@pressroom.com> Message-ID: <925bs3+t787@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7739 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Gourley" wrote: > Hi Ebony who I recognize from the kindred spirits list! Hi, Amy! Glad to see you. I'm going to rejoin KS next week... or today. I thought I'd be going over my mother's house early this morning and would be offline, but oh well. I'll get there when I get there. :-) You are living, walking proof of a theory I presented earlier this week here. I proposed that most avid Annefans (like you and I) lean R/H. At least, the ones I know do. H/H is almost like Anne marrying Roy Gardner... whereas Ron is more Gil-like in that he's the "boy next door" type right now. You'll see that I'm vocally H/H around these parts, although I do like most D/H stories and any well-written romance. I'm actually writing R/H because I like "problem stories"... and I wanted to understand the pairing. I remember after reading GoF thinking "R/H will happen, but I'm going to come away from this series feeling as I did at the end of *Little Women*." After reading the 1st 3 books in a single weekend, I was totally convinced of H/H. (LMM fans have no problem seeing pairings in children's books... you can see who'll end up with whom in the first book in *all* of her novels, when the kids are as young as those in PS/SS.) I rather think the number of R/H fans is growing as more finish up GoF, and we as humans like to be "right". I think the reason why it seems as if there is a proliferation of H/H arguments because many of the frequent posters (myself included) are shippers. On a happier note, when I entered the site I see that we finally have 500 members--and that this is the four month anniversary of our move from Yahoo. Merry Christmas--and Happy Anniversary, HP4GU! --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 24 17:34:11 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:34:11 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <50.f33bf3b.2777868d@aol.com> Message-ID: <925c2j+t9j7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7740 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > Ok, back on topic. Dumbledore mentions three people when referring to the "old crowd": Remus Lupin, Arabella Figg, and Mundungus Fletcher. We are all familiar with Lupin, and we've discussed Arabella Figg enough already, but where have we heard the name "Mundungus Fletcher" before? It was in chapter 3 of "Chamber of Secrets". I've got five Galleons on Fletcher being the new DADA professor. And--ever thought of this--what if one of the other professors were replaced? I also wonder when we'll hear more about the Department of Mysteries. --Ebony From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 24 18:25:45 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:25:45 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) Message-ID: <92.e31d909.277799a9@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7741 > When I read the books I don't feel H/H whereas R/H I *feel*. Me too! Zsenya, I'm so glad someone agrees with me on this point. There has been a lot of talk of who are the *logical* matches. Why does love have to be logical? And Hermione and Ron closely parallel Molly and Arthur and the love there is unquestionable. There is in my mind, chemistry between Ron and Hermione. > Mo - I certainly relate to Hermione a bit - I was very smart as a girl > and loved to read. I am always reading and always did (do) very well in school. However, I am not one to do a bit of *background* reading for school the way Hermione does. I'm not one for boring textbooks and as a matter of fact, I don't think I've done anything more than skim over the important parts since my elementary days. I will always put aside the work for a bit of pleasure reading. Last year I left several papers for my graduate classes to the last minute because I had just discovered HP and HAD to read each of the first 3 books immediately. Did I mention I recieved an Order of the Procrastinator, first class? > I was very laid back and a bit insecure. I wasn't a blatant rule breaker, > but I didn't mind doing it either. I am still laid back - way laid back according to those that know me best. I think that most people are insecure during their teenage years. All three of them (H/H/R) are very insecure in very different, but not so different ways. As for breaking the rules? Me? LOL. Never the insigator, laid-back Mo had friends that made the plans, they just told her when to show up -still do! > Sometimes I would get jealous, as Ron does, but I suppose that one of the > reasons that I am so convinced that Ron will be a true friend is that those > disagreements and spats never lasted very long and I still have those > friends, 10 years after high school. Athough I don't think I was ever so jealous as Ron, I'm know I had some pangs back in my school days. I see, no I know Ron's going to outgrow this. He just has to find his place. I still have my close friends from school after (I'm gonna one-up ya) 11 years. The biggest fight I had with any of them was in college when I lived with some of my girlfriends. We got over it. I think when you live with someone and see them all the time, lets face it they can annoy you and tempers can flare. And sometimes you need some space. Fighting accomplishes that because it gives you an excuse not to talk to that person. Ron and Harry live, eat, take classes together and sleep in the same room. When are they ever apart except during Quidditch practice? They needed some time apart IMO. Husbands and wives don't spend that much time together! -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 24 19:44:28 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 06:44:28 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: <01C06E3E.F0673FE0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7742 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > Ok, back on topic. Dumbledore mentions three people when referring to the "old crowd": Remus Lupin, Arabella Figg, and Mundungus Fletcher. We are all familiar with Lupin, and we've discussed Arabella Figg enough already, but where have we heard the name "Mundungus Fletcher" before? It was in chapter 3 of "Chamber of Secrets". Well spotted Ellie! I think this might be a logical inconsistency in the JKRverse because why would someone who was a member of the 'old crowd' be involved in dark arts? I think the old crowd would involve all of those who were in the 'resistance' to Voldemort and as such would include all age groups, not just peers of Dumbledore or Arthur and Molly etc. I'm curious about Arabella Figg, previously there has been lots of discussion that placed her as a squib. Change of collective ideas on that one? Neil - LOL at (e) but seriously I agree with whoever said Snape doesn't really want the job, its just a projection of the kids. Or at least nothing that Snape has ever done or said has indicated he wants to teach DADA. Yamilee Emmanuel-Kelly said: I think the Order of the Phoenix has to do with Harry and Voldermort's wands. They both have the Phoenix feathers in their wands. Maybe the Order is a special group who get the Phoenix feathered wands. I think that the phoenix referred to is Fawkes but I don't think there will be a whole lot of new wands out there. For one thing it would take a long time to learn to use a new wand successfully storm -----Original Message----- From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 3:34 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix I've got five Galleons on Fletcher being the new DADA professor. And--ever thought of this--what if one of the other professors were replaced? I also wonder when we'll hear more about the Department of Mysteries. --Ebony To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 24 19:49:56 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 06:49:56 +1100 Subject: Emotionally mature wizard children Message-ID: <01C06E3E.F4F37EC0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7743 Ok, see what you think of this - kids who are wizards can make things happen without the benefit of training or a wand. How destructive could those children be? Do you suppose that a lot of time goes into teaching kids to control their emotions so that they don't unintentionally blow up the house when thwarted by a parent. Think about fred (or george) turning Ron's teddy into a spider. That kind of transformation sounds pretty advanced. Imagine what a cruel child like duddley could do with his nascent magically powers! Just a thought storm From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 24 19:57:02 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:57:02 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] DADA (possibilities), I'm back, etc. References: <006201c06d88$5275b700$5c3570c2@c5s910j> <011d01c06e0e$56d0dce0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A461E18.EBC13198@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <002501c06de3$afe68da0$ad3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7744 I said, speculating about the future DADA teacher: > > (d) She will be a gynoid, built by Voldemort to infiltrate the > >enemy camp. Firebolt asked: > Someone explain to this stupid high-schooler what a gynoid is, please? Don't feel stupid, Firebolt. I made it up, and I meant it to be the feminine equivalent of 'android'. I'm sure someone is now going to list a thousand very famous sci-fi novels which feature the word 'gynoid'. Well....perhaps not. It *is* Christmas Eve, after all, and we have better things to do . Welcome back! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sun Dec 24 20:37:59 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 21:37:59 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA (possibilities) References: <006201c06d88$5275b700$5c3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <013501c06de9$68fd1d40$362b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7745 > (d) She will be a gynoid, built by Voldemort to infiltrate the enemy camp. Now this could get interesting, though after last years bad experiences any new teacher is probably forced through a whole lot of Anti-Disguising-Spells and has to remove all non-natural limbs and bodyparts. > (e) Severus Snape will finally get the job, after revealing that he is a > woman trapped in a man's body and asks the students to call him 'Selinda' as > he makes the transition. He turns out to have great legs. Of course he has great legs! But if they take "Selinda" (why not call him "Sevilla", in the good old "tell me where you live and I make a name out of it" tradition?), they could also consider Austin Powers or else BTW, I don't think he really wants the job, the poor guy had his share of Dark Arts and is probably quite fed up with it. Dinah From vderark at bccs.org Sun Dec 24 21:09:27 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 21:09:27 -0000 Subject: Warner Bros. v. HP websites In-Reply-To: <9251dn+10k6d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <925om7+lte5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7746 One thing I noticed in that article was a reference to images which Warner objected to. I can see their point here. There are fan sites all over the place that blatantly use copyrighted logos, illustrations, etc. It seems to me that if you do that, you're asking for trouble. It's one thing to use the name "Harry Potter" on your site. It's another to scan his picture from the cover of one of the books and slap it on there. It ISN'T legal use, but some folks seem to think it's okay, after all, I'm a fan! I haven't received any letters at all from Warner Bros. and would be very surprised if I did. I am pretty familiar with copyright law (not up to Heidi's standard, but I have taken a few classes and attended a number of seminars on the subject). I keep my site within the parameters of fair use. I can't say the same for most other sites out there. On top of that, I accept no advertising, so I do not make a penny on it. There are a lot of sites out there that are making small amounts of money on advertising too (although not enough to cover costs, I'm sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they're getting income). Those kinds of sites are asking for trouble. I'm not defending Warner Bros for strong-arming people. But I do say they have a right to defend their copyright. And fans have a responsibility to respect those same copyrights. Steve "Soapbox" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From SHENmagic at aol.com Sun Dec 24 21:29:56 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:29:56 EST Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Warner=20Brothers=20HP=20movie=20site?= Message-ID: <2d.53c929e.2777c4d4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7747 http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/cmp/newsflash-fr.html Hopefully this is not redundant; I've been too busy lately to even lurk! The site has a dramatic poster of an owl delivering Harry's invitation to Hogwarts and offers a chance to "pre-register" to receive movie updates and information. (which I did). I suspect updates will include new merchandise.... Merry Holidays to all! Aylihael From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 21:20:45 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:20:45 -0600 Subject: The joke I was referring to and trying to cut/paste horridly in chat... Message-ID: <000201c06dfc$4107f2c0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7748 From: "Erica Grossman" To: Subject: ABOUT JOKE OF THE DAY Date: Sunday, December 24, 2000 4:11 AM ABOUT JOKE OF THE DAY Erica Grossman, About Laugh Manager December 24, 2000 http://jokes.about.com -------------------------- TODAY'S JOKE ----------------------- Brought to you by Humor Guide Mike Durrett http://humor.about.com?PM=n20122400a HOLIDAY BUSINESS NEWS Continuing the current trend of large scale mergers and acquisitions, this holiday season Christmas and Chanukah will merge. An industry source said that the deal had been in the works for about 1,300 years, ever since the rise of the Muslim Empire. While details were not available at press time, it is believed that the overhead cost of having 12 days of Christmas and 8 days of Chanukah was becoming prohibitive for both sides. By combining forces, we're told, the world will be able to enjoy consistently high quality service during the 15 Days of Christmukah, as the new holiday is being called. Massive layoffs are expected, with lords a-leaping and maids a-milking being the hardest hit. As part of the conditions of the agreement, the letters on the dreydl, currently in Hebrew, will be replaced by Latin, thus becoming more unintelligible to a wider audience. Also, instead of translating to "A great miracle happened there," the message on the dreydl will be the more generic, "Miraculous stuff happens." In exchange, it is believed that Jews will be allowed to use Santa Claus and his vast merchandising resources for buying and delivering their gifts. In fact, one of the sticking points holding up the agreement for at least 300 years was the question of whether Jewish children could leave milk and cookies for Santa even after having eaten meat for dinner. Though that problem still hasn't been solved, a small breakthrough came last year when Oreos were finally declared to be Kosher. All sides appeared happy about this development except for Santa's dentist. A spokesman for Christmas, Inc., declined to say whether a takeover of Kwanzaa might not be in the works as well. He merely pointed out that were it not for the independent existence of Kwanzaa, the merger between Christmas and Chanukah might indeed be seen as an unfair cornering of the holiday market. Fortunately for all concerned, he said, Kwanzaa will help to maintain the competitive balance. He then closed the press conference by leading all present in a rousing rendition of "Oy, Come All Ye Faithful." ------------------------ I'd like to take this moment to wish everyone a (quote Scott) "HARRY CHRISTMAS!" *********************************** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 24 21:48:05 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:48:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) Message-ID: <200012242157.eBOLvxU26967@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7749 >Do the other (what are we up to, three or four?) R/H-ers feel they relate >more to Ron? Do the H/H-ers relate to Hermione? > >Just wondering, >-Mo Interesting theory...although I do relate a lot to Hermione (after I forced my parents to read the books, they both started calling me "Hermione" because I was so much like her as a kid), but I think I also relate to Ron. (Also, Ron reminds me A LOT of my husband, and he and I fight a lot the way Ron and Hermione do, but we also love each other very much.) Personally, I think my preference stems from the fact that "Much Ado About Nothing" has always been my favorite Shakespearean play, and I always loved Beatrice and Benedick. I just find that kind of relationship more interesting. Loved the part about how we R/H sit back until something riles us and then we don't shut up! I guess I can't deny that that's me! Kathy From amy at wintersmoon.com Sun Dec 24 22:12:15 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (amy) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:12:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] DADA Message-ID: <200012241712.AA579993908@wintersmoon.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7750 I think I remember reading *somewhere* (my HP obsession is now about a month old, but I'm still playing catch up) that JKR was going to bring in a female DADA teacher - or that could be wishful thinking on my part. I've got this idea floating around in my head where the new DADA teacher is someone from the same Hogwarts class as James, Lily, Sirius and company - with some connection to Sirius (you can't tell me the boy didn't fool around with someone while he was at Hogwarts) Gives Sirius a little bit more emotional angst (like he needs any more). Sirius can't be the new DADA teacher - he's still wanted for murder. I doubt Lupin would come back quite yet, at least not permanently. And I can't see Dumbledore teaching full time in addition to everything else he's going to have to do (fight the ministry, voldermort, etc). Although, Dumbledore would make a great teacher. Amy ________________________________________________________________ Sent via wintersmoon.com WebMail From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 24 23:20:50 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:20:50 -0000 Subject: Mundungus and DADA Teacher Message-ID: <9260ci+nv5o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7751 Mundungus Fletcher is mentioned at the begining as well as the end of GoF. When Percy is telling of all the people HOwling the MoM to demand compensation for their tents ruined by Death Eater riot, he mentioned Mundungus Fletcher put in a claim for a twelve room tent with built in Jacuzzi, but "I have his number. I happen to know that he was sleeping under a cloak propped up on four sticks." "Fletcher" means an arrow-maker and "mundungus" means very foul smelling cheap pipe tobacco. I think it is AL's fic "Dracaena Draco" that includes a new DADA teacher who is Sirius's stunning ex-girlfriend, Sirius in disguise and under a false name as the new CMC teacher (Care of Magical Creatures, not Caius Marcus Coriolanus), and a new Potions teacher because Snape is "on sabbatical" -- actually, on some kind of mission for Dumbledore from which he neither returned on schedule nor sent word. Altho', in my universe, the young Sirius wasn't in any hurry to marry Jenny or Anika or Gwyneth when there were So Many pretty girls to sleep with... "They're always chasing after me, and it would be too cruel to refuse them...." From tonasket at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 00:51:33 2000 From: tonasket at hotmail.com (DJ) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:51:33 -0800 Subject: CrookShanks Message-ID: <002001c06e0c$d46007a0$0500a8c0@cougar> No: HPFGUIDX 7752 Is CrookShanks an Animagi, and if so, who? DJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tonasket at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 00:56:42 2000 From: tonasket at hotmail.com (tonasket at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:56:42 -0000 Subject: Mystery parallels In-Reply-To: <91otgb+4isc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92660a+gi92@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7753 > > Who the heck is Jenny? Maybe that's why I didn't expect her! BTW, I > didn't expect Ginny either... > Hey Scott, Some of us listen to the audio books, and have no idea of the proper spelling. Lighten up, ya squib. DJ From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 25 01:01:59 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:01:59 -0000 Subject: Merry Christmas (OT) Message-ID: <9266a7+u3bd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7754 Hi everyone, I just wanted to tell you all to have a wonderful Christmas tomorrow. For Christians like myself this is a time to remember God's gift of Jesus to our world, but for all of us, no matter what creeds we take or what faiths we hold it is a time to remember the love and the joy that can surround us all. Christmas is a time of renewal and hope and a time to be with those that you love. Wishing you everything that you'd wish yourselves and so much more this Holiday Season! Peace and Love! May God bless you. Each and Everyone of you! Scott From kathleen at carr.org Mon Dec 25 04:45:16 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:45:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) Message-ID: <200012250455.eBP4tsU08422@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7755 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >>Do the other (what are we up to, three or four?) R/H-ers feel they relate >>more to Ron? Do the H/H-ers relate to Hermione? >> >>Just wondering, >>-Mo > I forgot to add...the first man who ever broke my heart had untidy black hair and startlingly green eyes (no glasses though)...which is probably the REAL root of my R/H shipperdom! Kathy From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Dec 25 05:13:49 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 05:13:49 -0000 Subject: Warner Bros. v. HP websites In-Reply-To: <925om7+lte5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <926l2d+bdgv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7756 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > One thing I noticed in that article was a reference to images which > Warner objected to. I can see their point here. There are fan sites > all over the place that blatantly use copyrighted logos, > illustrations, etc. It seems to me that if you do that, you're asking > for trouble. It's one thing to use the name "Harry Potter" on your > site. It's another to scan his picture from the cover of one of the > books and slap it on there. It ISN'T legal use, but some folks seem > to think it's okay, after all, I'm a fan! This actually is a case of one of Fluffy's heads getting mixed up in another head's business, if you will; WB owns ONLY the movie and merchandising rights, not the overall rights. JKR owns those, and the illustrations belong to either the publishers or artists. My take on this is it may take WB Legal a while to get used to this; they're used to dealing with characters their employer owns outright. If somebody puts an entire page of Bugs Bunny stills, WB has the right (both legal and moral) to react however they wish. With Harry, they are morally obligated to consult JKR's lawyers (or her personally); and allow her to control "franchise" policy. This would also place them on firmer legal cround for any action they might decide to take. Hope I made sense there; it's late and my brain's in Christmas mode. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Dec 25 05:16:30 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 05:16:30 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <924159+bq4r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <926l7e+b733@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7757 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " > > wrote: > > > Susan McGee wrote: The enslaved Dobby would yearn for socks - but what need > would the liberated Dobby have for them, beside the mere utilitarian > purpose of keeping his feet warm? Yet he collects them and is delighted when Harry/Ron gives him some. Susan From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Dec 25 05:48:23 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 05:48:23 -0000 Subject: The joke I was referring to and trying to cut/paste horridly in chat... In-Reply-To: <000201c06dfc$4107f2c0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <926n37+6kg3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7758 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rohleder" wrote: , a small breakthrough came > last year when Oreos were finally declared to be Kosher. All sides > appeared happy about this development except for Santa's dentist. > So which of Hermione's folks would that be? Her mum or her dad? ~:) From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 25 05:55:32 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:55:32 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] CrookShanks Message-ID: <01C06E93.86007A40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7759 Crookshanks is an ordinary (thought smart) cat, Sirius says so (oh I love the opportunity to quote) "This cat isn't mad .... He's the most intelligent of his kind I've ever met." p267 PoA hardcover aust (british) ed. Ok, so this doesn't quite as comprehensively rule out his being an a Animagi as I recall. Maybe someone else will have a better quote. Maybe from an interview with Jo? I'm sure that his cat status has been specifically referred to. storm -----Original Message----- From: DJ [SMTP:tonasket at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 10:52 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] CrookShanks Is CrookShanks an Animagi, and if so, who? DJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 25 06:14:08 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:14:08 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks Message-ID: <01C06E96.1C84F840.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7760 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " > > wrote: The enslaved Dobby would yearn for socks - but what need > would the liberated Dobby have for them, beside the mere utilitarian > purpose of keeping his feet warm? Susan said Yet he collects them and is delighted when Harry/Ron gives him some. A memorial of his good fortune? They will always be a symbol of his freedom. Btw, I don't think that Dumbledore has metapohised from a house elf to a wizard (great image though that is). I think we would have found out if this was possible before now. storm -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 3:17 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Dec 23 21:06:48 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:06:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7761 < I'd be curious to hear speculation too. The only thing I can think of is that the Order of the Phoenix is the "old crowd" - the ones that fought against Voldermort before. At first I thought that the old crowd we're just the *old crowd* - Dumbledore's peers. We know that Mrs. Figg is apparently older, at least in Harry's eyes. But then when I read GoF again, I realized that Lupin was included in the "old crowd". I'd also be curious to hear the speculation on what exactly James, Lily, and Sirius did to make money. It seems like the amount of money Harry has in his vault was quite a bit - obviously they didn't work for the ministry. I think I remember reading somewhere that JKR said that how James and Lily made their money would figure in heavily in the later books???? Amy > Wow Amy, I totally lov and agree with your theory. Mainly because Dumbledore was always big on loyalty. His loyal followers at the school, and the fierce Loyalty that brought Fawkes(the phoenix) to Harry in CoS. So having the old crowd be the order of the phoenix, Dumbledore's most loyal supporters who would do anything to rid the world of Voldemort makes a lot of sense. Congratulations on an insight i never would have dreamed of. As for the money think....wasn't there a theory that the Potters worked for the mysterious branch of the ministry that no one knows about. It would make sense that that dept. would be paid more bc of the danger in their tasks....But that makes me raise another question. we know Lily is muggle born, but what about James? What about his parents or family or cousins or aunnts and uncles? I also again remember a theory about James being a descendant of Godric gryffindor and prof trelawney's Prdiction....maybe the money was left over from some large inheritance. Stephanie Who is going crazy do to the fact that the time article said no book 5 till 2002 and i thought we only had to wait till november of '01! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 12:35:01 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:35:01 -0000 Subject: Movie and good wishes Message-ID: <927etl+lkeb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7762 Hi all, Could somebody recommend me a good site about the HP movie? I'm particularly interested in one that has photographs of the actors, since many of them I don't know. And, from the place it all began, I'd like to wish you all a very merry (and happy!) Christmas!! Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 13:46:32 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:46:32 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <01C06E3E.F0673FE0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <927j3o+964a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7763 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > > Ok, back on topic. Dumbledore mentions three people when referring > to the "old crowd": Remus Lupin, Arabella Figg, and Mundungus > Fletcher. We are all familiar with Lupin, and we've discussed > Arabella Figg enough already, but where have we heard the > name "Mundungus Fletcher" before? It was in chapter 3 of "Chamber of > Secrets". > > Well spotted Ellie! I think this might be a logical inconsistency in the > JKRverse because why would someone who was a member of the 'old crowd' be > involved in dark arts? I wouldn't say that throwing a hex is dark arts. Its not nice, maybe, but they do it all the time, Harry, Ron, everybody. (Its probably analogous in magic world to a slap in the face or a punch in the stomach). Naama From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 25 15:28:21 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:28:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue" References: <91ohm0+jtt9@eGroups.com> <3A3FD828.69DE489B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A476794.83DC11C4@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7764 Note: I'm over 550 messages behind, and I suppose I'll annoy people by posting answers to messages which were discussed exhaustively and dismissed days ago, but I 'm just going to send these out; and anyway, I wanted to wish you all a happy holidays. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, blessed Solstice; whatever is your holiday of choice! We had dinner at my brother-in-law's last night, and there were crackers for the children, prime rib, and Yorkshire pudding, and it made me think of all of you! Peg Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > naama wrote: > > > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this > > I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not > > sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because > > of his relative nondescriptness. Hermione is very well defined and > > rounded, IMO, and Harry is also, of course. Isn't Ron a little ... I > > don't know how do describe it - pale, maybe. He's Harry's friend more > > than he is his own person. Even when he has negative feelings they > > are related to Harry (his jealousy of him in GoF). Am I the only one > > to feel this way? > > Well, I'd agree more with Ebony that my own discomfort with Ron has to > do with my growing unease that he may be susceptible to betrayal of > Harry because of all his insecurities & envy. And, like Ebony, I guess > I don't have much sympathy for his troubles. He has a loving family & > plenty of talents of his own if he'd quit worrying about what everyone > else has. I think he's the weak link. I don't quite see it yet. I'm reserving judgment. I see it more as Ron being an adolescent, trying to figure out his own place in the world. And as for the idea that Ron is the "weak link" I don't yet see any sign that he'd be tempted by anything that the dark side could offer. > Also - who the he.. on earth is Mary Sue? > > A "Mary Sue" is an original character in a work of fanfiction who > essentially steals the show and gets the preferred romantic pairing (if > the fanfic author has H/H tendencies, the "Mary Sue" character would win > Harry's heart). I think I'm explaining that one correctly, but someone > should correct me if I'm wrong. > > Penny I also see a Mary Sue character as being a fanfic's writer's attempt to write herself into the story and go off with the main character. Which is why I was a bit perplexed by Ebony's assertion here: "Hermione is not really a "Mary Sue" (as we term the concept in fanfic). She is rather a symbol (or a sign, if you want to be technical about it--that's what in my notes) of JKR in the story. I've heard her called a "surrogate". Simply put, she is a place for the author herself to enter the story milieu and resolve some of the Freudian/Lacanian conflicts she faces." If Ebony is correct, that Hermione is the symbol of JKR in the story, and the story is constructed so that she longs for Harry, then to me, that means the Hermione IS a Mary Sue character, Q.E.D. Would like a fuller explanation from Ebony as to why she thinks Hermione ISN'T a Mary Sue. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 25 15:28:31 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:28:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Kiss References: <91p0ko+45hf@eGroups.com> <3A40201E.C1C9CC9F@swbell.net> <007401c06a38$576f5200$7a45d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A47679F.F158054E@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7765 Carole Estes wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > > > Umm.... I wouldn't say it's *worthless* to the H/H arguments. Hey, any > > argument counts. It's certainly not the *best* or strongest argument by > > any means. But, as I said back in July: H/H shippers have one kiss; R/H > > shippers have zero! :--) > > No kiss is insignificant in a true shipper's heart...seriously...she didn't > kiss Ron goodbye.....or make a point to see Ron over the summer... > At least not that we saw. She might have kissed Ron privately or had a private word with him about meeting during the summer when Harry went off in another direction. Wasn't Hermione already at Ron's house at the beginning of GoF? They can correspond with each other during the summer more easily than Harry can correspond with either of them (because of the restrictions imposed by the Dursleys). Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Dec 25 15:31:51 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:31:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Peter Pettigrew's true role Re: Distance Questions; Secret Keeper References: <91m39l+js72@eGroups.com> <3A3EDD52.F0615AB9@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A476867.8F012339@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7766 Monika Huebner wrote: > Hello all, > > On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:00:18 -0600, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > >And, now a question of my own for fanfic purposes -- how would the > >Fidelius charm be performed and who would/would not be present? Would > >anyone other than the Potters and Pettigrew have been present? > >Would/could Sirius Black have been there? How would it have worked > >exactly? For example, would Lily (charms being her specialty from what > >we know) have performed the charm herself? Or, would the Potters as the > >recipients so to speak have needed a 4th person to actually place the > >charm on themselves & Pettigrew? We know Dumbledore wasn't there when > >it was performed as he doesn't know about the switch; neither does > >Remus. Does this lead one to the conclusion that only the Potters & > >Pettigrew were present or is there room for conjecture that Black > >himself might have been there? Any thoughts??? PoA is not exactly > >specific on this point -- any conjecture or theories welcome! > > Hm, it's odd, but I always thought that Sirius must have been there. > The Fidelius Charm is said to be a very complicated spell, so I > imagined it to have tow distinct parts, one for the Secret Keeper > himself and one for the person(s) who are supposed to go into hiding. > If Sirius had actually been the Secret Keeper, he could have put the > charm on James and Lily, and they could have performed the part that > should have hidden their secret in him. But I really don't see > Pettigrew cast such a complicated spell. I know he's not *that* > stupid, but after all we've heard about him I don't believe he would > have been able to do it without practising it a lot (and where should > he have done that?). That leaves Sirius to perform the charm on James > and Lily, since nobody else knew about the switch. I'm pretty sure he > was there. > > Monika This is sort of an aside: Peter was a good enough wizard to have learned how to perform the animagus magic. You know, many fan fic writers act as if Peter was merely a tag-a-long, not as good at magic as James, Sirius and Lupin, not "really" one of the four, almost sort of resented. I think this diminishes the fact of his betrayal. It seems to be a sort of squeamishness/reluctance to claim Peter as "one of us"--because it's too scarey to imagine that someone you have totally accepted and considered one of your team could have betrayed you (sorry, my pronouns got rather out of control there). But Sirius, at least, indicates that he accepted Peter totally as his friend, and accordingly, was devastated when confronted by the fact that Peter had sold out James and Lily. You can't have your heart truly broken unless you give it into another's keeping and have that trust betrayed. Peg From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 15:43:40 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 15:43:40 -0000 Subject: Various ships / who'll die? In-Reply-To: <92364o+711g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <927pvc+ivev@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7767 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > I **HOPE** she doesn't end her series by destroying ALL the > characters AND the ENTIRE wizarding world, as Tolkien ended LOTR by > sending any surviving magic to Westernesse and rolling the earth into > a sphere so we-uns can never touch Westernesse. (I am no way > suggesting that JKR imitates JRRT, whom she has said she never > read, but surely HP would not be so immensely popular if she had not > hit upon something so mythic and archetypal that the archetype of > Apocalypse or Ragnarok would fit right in.) > > But I would not be at all surprised if Harry dies in Book 7, in the > process of completely destroying Voldemort (altho' evil, alas, will > always be with us, at least as long as free will is). Then, all H/ > shippiness would be irrelevant. If Ron and Hermione survived, they > might marry and spend their lives as curators at the shrine of > Harry's memory, which is the kind of sick thing that human beings do > (says the Cat). > > But I would not be at all surprised if Ron dies sooner than Harry, > maybe even in the very next book. JKR's phrase "that's when the > deaths begin" suggests that there are a LOT of deaths. Like World War > One, in which IIRC more soldiers died than returned Ron would > be getting his distinction (dying heroically) as well as doing > something that none of his brothers had done yet (dying). > > But I WOULD be surprised if Hermione dies, as she is the JKR > character. Even if the entire wizarding world is destroyed, I would > expect Hermione to survive, exiled to the Muggle world, and writing > down the whole story as fiction so that at least it will be > remembered. In the delightful issue of who dies I have nothing to offer but my gut feelings. First of all, I disagree with anyone who thinks that one of the major characters (Harry, Hermione, Ron) will die. I will bet anybody my last knut that the end of book 7 will find them alive and well (after M. Pomfrey regrows several of their organs, obviously). I also quite firmly believe that these will not die either - Dumbledore (if he dies, it will be at the end of book 7 only), Molly, Arthur, Ginny, Fred and George Weasley (well, maybe one of the twins, but I really hope not), Hagrid. These are the possible deaths (I feel like some kind of Trelawney now): Bill or Charley Weasley, Crookshanks, either Lupin OR Sirius, a not very central teacher (Sprout, Flitwick and so own. Not McGonagall), Krum, Fleur, any of the kids at Gryffindor but not Neville (I think), Cho (I don't really think she'll die, though), Fudge, other Ministry officials, Snape might die heroically at some point (but not next book), any number of Death Eaters, possibly the Dursleys (Aunt Petunia?). Like I said, its gut feelings (which makes it very difficult to argue with, YAY!). Beyond gut feeling there's also the fact that JKR is keeping to the format of a certain kind of a fantasy story. Thats not to say she can't or won't break from this format, but so far she hasn't. When she warned that a friend of Harry's will die in GoF it turned out to be Cedric Diggory, more of an acquintance than a friend. So, although she issued the scary warning that "that's when the deaths begin" (when and where was that, BTW?), I wouldn't go so far as to believe that the next books will resemble teenage horror films. Anyway, if there's something Hollywood movies have taught me, its that the good guys never get hit by the bullets, even though they're armed with a little pistol and the bad guys with machine guns. Haven't you noticed how many times Malfoy tries to hurt Harry and doesn't succeed? Extrapolate from this. :) Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 16:10:02 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:10:02 -0000 Subject: Various ships / who'll die? In-Reply-To: <927pvc+ivev@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <927rgq+6n7e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7768 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: Sorry about this, but I realized that in my haste I forgot my prime candidate for heroic death - Dobby. Winkey, of course, is a gonner too. I've forgotten Percy as well, but he goes to my list of the living. Naama From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Dec 25 16:50:26 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:50:26 -0000 Subject: What *are* the Dark Arts? Message-ID: <927tsi+6tji@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7769 The "Defense against the Dark Arts" course seems to be a very mixed bag, as it includes how to deal with critters like Cornish pixies, hinkeypunks and boggarts, and how to recognize werewolves. Since these creatures are just acting according to their nature, I don't see how learning about them qualifies as dark "arts." We don't know much about what Moody taught his students other than experiencing the Imperius curse. The only useful DADA that Harry has learned ("learnt" for our friends across the water) were the Patronus charm, which he had to *beg* Lupin to teach him, and the "Expellarmus" spell, which he learned by watching Snape at the one and only dueling club meeting. Perhaps a better name for the course than "Defense against the Dark Arts" would be "Defensive Magic." -JF From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Dec 25 16:59:22 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:59:22 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore & socks Message-ID: <927uda+7dh8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7770 I thought that the meaning of the socks that Dumbledore saw in the Mirror of Erised was fairly clear -- he yearns for family and for someone to take care of *him* (symbolized by knitting him socks). Being the point man in the struggle against Voldemort must be a lonely life. -JF From amy at wintersmoon.com Mon Dec 25 19:40:02 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 19:40:02 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9287qi+ns5f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7771 TYK - of course, I'm sure JKR will come up with something extraordinary that none of us would have thought of though. It does make a lot of sense for the Potters to be involved in some "secret" ministry branch - why else would Voldermort be "gunning" for them - he must have felt as though they were a real threat to him. Speaking of Voldermort...I can't help but to think that speaking his name will have something to do with his downfall. (I believe there are some legends surrounding some "magical creatures" that speaking their name is the only way to banish them - right now, of course, I can't think of what they are) Everyone, with the exception of Dumbledore and Harry are petrified of speaking or hearing his name...why? It's just a name? (and it's not even his real name) I wonder who started the whole "you know who" bit. Merry Christmas! Amy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > < > I'd be curious to hear speculation too. The only thing I can think > of is that the Order of the Phoenix is the "old crowd" - the ones > that fought against Voldermort before. At first I thought that the > old crowd we're just the *old crowd* - Dumbledore's peers. We know > that Mrs. Figg is apparently older, at least in Harry's eyes. But > then when I read GoF again, I realized that Lupin was included in > the "old crowd". > I'd also be curious to hear the speculation on what exactly James, > Lily, and Sirius did to make money. It seems like the amount of > money Harry has in his vault was quite a bit - obviously they didn't > work for the ministry. I think I remember reading somewhere that JKR > said that how James and Lily made their money would figure in heavily > in the later books???? > Amy > > > > Wow Amy, I totally lov and agree with your theory. Mainly because > Dumbledore was always big on loyalty. His loyal followers at the school, > and the fierce Loyalty that brought Fawkes(the phoenix) to Harry in CoS. So > having the old crowd be the order of the phoenix, Dumbledore's most loyal > supporters who would do anything to rid the world of Voldemort makes a lot > of sense. Congratulations on an insight i never would have dreamed of. > > As for the money think....wasn't there a theory that the Potters worked for > the mysterious branch of the ministry that no one knows about. It would > make sense that that dept. would be paid more bc of the danger in their > tasks....But that makes me raise another question. we know Lily is muggle > born, but what about James? What about his parents or family or cousins or > aunnts and uncles? I also again remember a theory about James being a > descendant of Godric gryffindor and prof trelawney's Prdiction....maybe the > money was left over from some large inheritance. > > Stephanie > Who is going crazy do to the fact that the time article said no book 5 till > 2002 and i thought we only had to wait till november of '01! > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Mon Dec 25 21:23:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 15:23:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Emotionally mature wizard children References: <01C06E3E.F4F37EC0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A47BABA.FC9DB16D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7772 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Ok, see what you think of this - kids who are wizards can make things happen > without the benefit of training or a wand. How destructive could those children > be? Do you suppose that a lot of time goes into teaching kids to control their > emotions so that they don't unintentionally blow up the house when thwarted by > a parent. Think about fred (or george) turning Ron's teddy into a spider. That > kind of transformation sounds pretty advanced. Imagine what a cruel child like > duddley could do with his nascent magically powers! This is in the same box with "how did the Kents discipline young Clark as a toddler" for me. They managed, wizards manage, don't know how. --Amanda From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 25 21:34:27 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:34:27 -0000 Subject: Merry Christmas! Message-ID: <928eh3+eim7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7773 Dear friends, I just wanted to wish everyone a very happy holiday. I'm going to start a poll regarding HP gifts...be sure to respond to it! Best wishes to all! ~Kaitlin From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Dec 25 21:42:45 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 25 Dec 2000 21:42:45 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <977780565.82940@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7774 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Did you receive any HP merchandise as a gift this holiday season? o I think my friends and relatives cleared out the stores. o I got a few things, but I'm waiting for the after-Christmas sales. o No, because I keep my HP fandom a secret. o No, and I'm not too happy about it! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Dec 25 22:51:42 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 00:51:42 +0200 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) Message-ID: <006201c06ec5$43c6f960$7ca7003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7775 Hi! I'm new to this list. I'm Maya from Israel. I know that anything I might comment in the first few mails is mot likely to be somehting you guys have discussed and discussed again, and probably every little detail of it has been thought of, so excuse me ahead for repeating sentences or Frequently asked questions that you've already heard... ;-) So first, a few probably VERY frequently asked inquiries: 1) Why are they going to name the film HP and the SORCERER'S stone? Surely just as J. K. Rowling had insisted on the Harry actor being a british boy she would insist on using the proper name?? 2) Did anyone catch that interview with Rowling on Sky news yesterday evening? >Interesting theory...although I do relate a lot to Hermione (after I forced my >parents to read the books, they both started calling me "Hermione" because I >was so much like her as a kid) :-) after I had given it to a friend to read and after he only finished the first third of book 1, he said - now I understand why you like this book so much - you're just like hermione. (I didn't think that was much of a completment - espcially baesd on how Hermione seems in the beginning of the first book). However, he rpeatd this in the end of the book as well, so I was very amused. But actually, till I read the 4th book I didn't take to her as much at all. In books 1&2 I was with Harry, and since book 3 I realyl love Ron, Book 4 didn't change Ron and my favourite rather than Harry, but made Hermione also my favourite, even though in a way she becomes more annoying..... > Personally, I think my >preference stems from the fact that "Much Ado About Nothing" has always been >my favorite Shakespearean play, and I always loved Beatrice and Benedick. I >just find that kind of relationship more interesting. > > I couldn't agree more! In fact, the same though had entered my mind at the time as well! it IS my favourite play and I always seem to be taken to that kind of relationship in books or films. I acutally compared it to antoher couple - Spike and Lynda from Press Gang, as well as to Beatrice and Benedik. Have a Merry Christmas, Maya >Hey Scott, Some of us listen to the audio books, and have no idea of >the proper spelling. Lighten up, ya squib. > You mean you'd actually prefer to listen to them being read than to read them yourselves?? why??? From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 25 23:37:47 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:37:47 +1100 Subject: Mundungus Fletcher Message-ID: <01C06F27.EEEA15E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7776 I see your point Naama but, a. why was he being investigated by the ministry and b. if he was being investigated and he had nothing to hide, why attempt to assault the investigating officer (lapses into what she believes to be US terminology). Maybe he was just A Very Naughty Boy (eg the insurance claim) and was involved in lots of high jinx but .... storm -----Original Message----- From: naama [SMTP:naama_gat at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 11:47 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > > Ok, back on topic. Dumbledore mentions three people when referring > to the "old crowd": Remus Lupin, Arabella Figg, and Mundungus > Fletcher. We are all familiar with Lupin, and we've discussed > Arabella Figg enough already, but where have we heard the > name "Mundungus Fletcher" before? It was in chapter 3 of "Chamber of > Secrets". > > Well spotted Ellie! I think this might be a logical inconsistency in the > JKRverse because why would someone who was a member of the 'old crowd' be > involved in dark arts? I wouldn't say that throwing a hex is dark arts. Its not nice, maybe, but they do it all the time, Harry, Ron, everybody. (Its probably analogous in magic world to a slap in the face or a punch in the stomach). Naama To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 25 23:42:52 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:42:52 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: <01C06F29.5BD80580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7777 "TYK "- huh? Can you spell out (I thought I was keeping up!) storm -----Original Message----- From: Amy Winters [SMTP:amy at wintersmoon.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 5:40 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 25 23:45:49 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:45:49 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks Message-ID: <01C06F29.5EECE6A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7778 Dumbledore's is not lonely - he has Snape to keep him warm at night. (now running away) storm -----Original Message----- From: Jim Flanagan [SMTP:jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 2:59 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks I thought that the meaning of the socks that Dumbledore saw in the Mirror of Erised was fairly clear -- he yearns for family and for someone to take care of *him* (symbolized by knitting him socks). Being the point man in the struggle against Voldemort must be a lonely life. -JF To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Dec 25 23:50:37 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:50:37 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Emotionally mature wizard children Message-ID: <01C06F29.B561C640.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7779 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Ok, see what you think of this - kids who are wizards can make things happen > without the benefit of training or a wand. How destructive could those children > be? Do you suppose that a lot of time goes into teaching kids to control their > emotions so that they don't unintentionally blow up the house when thwarted by > a parent. Think about fred (or george) turning Ron's teddy into a spider. That > kind of transformation sounds pretty advanced. Imagine what a cruel child like > duddley could do with his nascent magically powers! This is in the same box with "how did the Kents discipline young Clark as a toddler" for me. They managed, wizards manage, don't know how. --Amanda LOL! Love the analogy. storm PS how does anybody discipline a toddler? (as a non-parenting member of the list this does occasionally amaze me) -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [SMTP:editor at texas.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:23 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Emotionally mature wizard children To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Dec 25 23:56:49 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:56:49 -0000 Subject: What *are* the Dark Arts? In-Reply-To: <927tsi+6tji@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <928ms1+n0s7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7780 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > The "Defense against the Dark Arts" course seems to be a very mixed > bag, as it includes how to deal with critters like Cornish pixies, > hinkeypunks and boggarts, and how to recognize werewolves. Since > these creatures are just acting according to their nature, I don't > see how learning about them qualifies as dark "arts." Did Lupin teach only defense against scary magical creatures in his class? I can't quite recall, but I got that impression. Perhaps that was only the curriculum for third year, with actual defense against other magic users coming later. After all, it might not be prudent to teach the students offensive magic spells until they reach a certain level of maturity. > > We don't know much about what Moody taught his students other than > experiencing the Imperius curse. He did show the other two Unforgivable curses. I just assumed he showed them other, less major curses throughout the year. The only useful DADA that Harry has > learned ("learnt" for our friends across the water) were the Patronus > charm, which he had to *beg* Lupin to teach him, and > the "Expellarmus" spell, which he learned by watching Snape at the > one and only dueling club meeting. Not sure if the second spell is necessarily against the Dark Arts. Maybe more of a general fighting spell. Certainly a useful one though. > > Perhaps a better name for the course than "Defense against the Dark > Arts" would be "Defensive Magic." > Well, perhaps one assumes that defense is only needed against the Dark Arts. Charmian From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Dec 25 23:55:13 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:55:13 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) References: <006201c06ec5$43c6f960$7ca7003e@default> Message-ID: <008c01c06ece$4daa5220$7d48063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7781 > > Hi! > > I'm new to this list. > > I'm Maya from Israel. > > > > So first, a few probably VERY frequently asked inquiries: > > 1) Why are they going to name the film HP and the SORCERER'S stone? Surely > just as J. K. Rowling had insisted on the Harry actor being a british boy > she would insist on using the proper name?? It will be Philosopher's Stone for the UK market. Each scene mentioning said words are being shot twice using the different terminology for the two markets - UK and US. > 2) Did anyone catch that interview with Rowling on Sky news yesterday > evening? No. Could you give a brief summary please ? > I couldn't agree more! In fact, the same though had entered my mind at the > time as well! it IS my favourite play and I always seem to be taken to that > kind of relationship in books or films. I acutally compared it to antoher > couple - Spike and Lynda from Press Gang, as well as to Beatrice and > Benedik. You had to get PG in there somewhere ?? ;-)) > You mean you'd actually prefer to listen to them being read than to read > them yourselves?? why??? Because it brings it all alive. can't wait to hear Stephen Fry do GOF !! Michelle From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Dec 25 23:56:08 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:56:08 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) References: <006201c06ec5$43c6f960$7ca7003e@default> Message-ID: <000201c06ece$a7cb22c0$f8407bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7782 > > Hi! > > I'm new to this list. > > I'm Maya from Israel. > Oh, yeah I forgot to say welcome to the list from another newbie !! Michelle From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 01:30:58 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Cassie Ostrander) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:30:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Mundungus Fletcher Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7783 Hello! Im new to this list... >I see your point Naama but, a. why was he being investigated by the >ministry Remember what department that Mr Weasley works for? The missuse of Muggle Artifacts. That does not mean that he was doing "dark arts"... It just means that he bewitched something that muggles use. Like a car. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 02:33:42 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Cassie Ostrander) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:33:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Missing link Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7784 As i said in my last post, i am new here. So if someone has already disscused this, im sorry. In the beginning of SS, wizard community celebrates all day that Voldemort is gone. Harry is not dropped off at the Dursleys until the next night. Professor McGonagall is told by Hagrid, who took Harry to 4 Privet drive, that Dumbledore will be there later. When Dumbledore and Mcgonagall meet that night she has no idea why Dumbledore is in Muggle world. Then Hagrid shows up with the baby. Therefore Harry was not with Hagrid when he saw McGonagall, but he said that he was one of the first people in the house...and Sirus Black was there. At some point during the time when Harry was "missing" and the wizards took to Muggle streets to celebrate, Sirus met Peter Petigrew. If anyone has any ideas, i would love to hear them. the only thing that i can really think of is that the Ministry of Magic took Harry for a while and Hagrid picked him up there,but it says that Hargid took him directly out of the house. Or maybe it takes 24 hours to get from Godrics Hollow to 4 Privet drive. But i doubt it. Ohh to everyone who wanted to know about the money thing...JKR said in either the AOL chat or the Scholastic Chat that James' Money was inherited. Would it be possible that he was related to Godric Griffindore? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 02:51:48 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 02:51:48 -0000 Subject: Mundungus Fletcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <929144+9lgs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7785 Very true. I also think this is another example of how Rowling introduces her readers to a more rounded view of the world. Just like the point she makes that bad is truly bad, she's showing us that the good guys aren't plaster saints, either, like Snape. Snape and Mundungus Fletcher may not be the nicest guys on Earth, but they're on the right side. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassie Ostrander" wrote: > > >I see your point Naama but, a. why was he being investigated by the > >ministry > > Remember what department that Mr Weasley works for? The missuse of Muggle > Artifacts. That does not mean that he was doing "dark arts"... It just > means that he bewitched something that muggles use. Like a car. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Dec 26 05:21:25 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:21:25 -0000 Subject: CrookShanks In-Reply-To: <01C06E93.86007A40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <9299sl+s7bc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7786 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Crookshanks is an ordinary (thought smart) cat, Sirius says so (oh I love the > opportunity to quote) "This cat isn't mad .... He's the most intelligent of his > kind I've ever met." p267 PoA hardcover aust (british) ed. > And he reminds me of my big boy -- Rob Roy McGregor -- who is the goldest, and biggest and cuddliest of cats... Hope everyone who celebrates has had a lovely Christmas. Here in Michigan, it's been the quintessential Christmas. Clear and cold and covered with snow, icicles everywhere, .... Susan From mdartagnan at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 05:59:13 2000 From: mdartagnan at yahoo.com (Marijose D?az) Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:59:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Help! (Time Magazine story on Jo) Message-ID: <20001226055913.65838.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7787 Hi!! Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas/Hannukah. ^^ I wonder if anyone could help me. I live in Mexico and the Time edition published here is quite local. So, to make a long story short, Jo Rowling`s story as a runner-up for the Man of the Year title wasn't published in the edition I can get. I've checked the Time web site and read part of the story, but from your commentaries, it seems part of it wasn't included. Basically, it's where Jo speaks about the characters. I wonder, could anybody explain me what did she say, please? For instance, why did she say that Harry is an "old soul", as I've read here? Thanks a lot in advance. ^^ Misbehave, Marijose Who also believes that Remus OR Sirius will die... and FEARS that it might turn into "Remus AND Sirius". *sob* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From SHENmagic at aol.com Tue Dec 26 06:21:06 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:21:06 EST Subject: Missing link + Fidelius Charm Message-ID: <92.e32f770.277992d2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7788 "Cassie Ostrander" writes: Subject: Missing link >At some point during the time when Harry >was "missing" and the wizards took to Muggle streets to celebrate... > >If anyone has any ideas, i would love to hear them. I think Harry was with Prof. Dumbledore, getting those protection spells woven in and about him.... In a message Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote:writes: Re: The Fidelius Charm >Hm, it's odd, but I always thought that Sirius must have been there. I do too. It was Professor Flitwick himself who said the Fidelius charm was "immensely complicated". However, I don't think it was beyond MWPP, who after all had mastered the Animagus transformations. Remus would not be there, suspected of collaboration with YouKnowWho (and I wonder how that came to be). I see James, a former Head Boy and Sirius, two of the most brilliant students, now graduates of Hogwarts, and Lily, rumored to be no slouch at charms plus Peter as Secret Keeper performing the Fidelius Charm. And as some of you have pointed out, Peter must have a bit of competence as a wizard to be able to complete the Animagus transformation, even tho he received help. If it was me, I'd have had Professors Dumbledore and Flitwick in to help. But perhaps the Marauders were used to doing things by themselves, or the Professors were otherwise engaged in Voldemort defense type actions. It was wartime, after all, from the wizarding point of view. Aylihael (punchy after too many hours at the iMac and too many Christmas goodies). To all a good night--Merry Solstices, Christmas, Ramadan and Chanukah.... From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 26 07:52:46 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 07:52:46 -0000 Subject: What *are* the Dark Arts? In-Reply-To: <927tsi+6tji@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <929ioe+mma7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7789 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > The "Defense against the Dark Arts" course seems to be a very mixed > bag, Very true, but there is some semblence of scope and sequence here. They start with the basics and work up to the more dangerous things. Creatures are fairly exciting but not particularly dangerous, but then they start the more frightening types (e.g. Boggarts) and then they begin learning about Curses. There is a logic here. Part of the problem in implementation at Hogwarts is the rapid turnover of DADA staff. Part of it too is the poor quality of some of the teachers they do get (can you say Lockhart?) It suggests in the books that the Ministry of Magic has set a curriculum for these classes (and probably all the others too) but Dumbledore lets individual teachers stray from the Ministry's requirements quite a bit. There is an underlying goal, however, to teach kids to identify and defend against all the various types of creatures, spells, objects, and eventually ideologies that are aligned with Evil. as it includes how to deal with critters like Cornish pixies, > hinkeypunks and boggarts, and how to recognize werewolves. Since > these creatures are just acting according to their nature, I don't > see how learning about them qualifies as dark "arts." These are not simply creatures who happen to kill humans. We're talking about beings who have evil intent. They kill for reasons which have nothing to do with killing prey for food. Nor are they animals in the standard sense. For example, the Red Cap is a magical creature which haunts old battlefields or watchtowers and bludgeons unsuspecting passers-by to death. The blood of the victim is used to dye the cap of the creature, and when the color fades, a new victim is selected and attacked. This is not natural, this is an evil magical creature. All of these creatures have in one way or another aligned themselves with the Dark (i.e. Evil) side. In the Wizarding world, unlike our own, there is a clear-cut division between the two sides, and it appears in more than just human hearts. A magical object can be a Dark Magic Item, which means that it's inherently Evil. We say, by way of example, that guns don't kill people, PEOPLE do...well, in the Wizarding world, that wouldn't necessarily be true, you could have an Evil gun. Presumably, a place can be inherently evil as well. > > Perhaps a better name for the course than "Defense against the Dark > Arts" would be "Defensive Magic." No, that would be Charms. That's where they teach Hex-Deflection, for example. Flitwick is a former champion Dueler. Defensive magic, as opposed to fighting Evil, is part of the sport of Wizard Dueling, which is taught in Charms classes. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 26 08:01:51 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:01:51 -0000 Subject: Missing link In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <929j9f+i4fv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7790 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassie Ostrander" wrote: > > If anyone has any ideas, i would love to hear them. Cassie: There is quite a bit of information on this subject in the Lexicon (along with my personl theories, for what they're worth). Click on http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon => TimeLine => "time line of the attack by Voldemort on Harry's family,including the missing 24 hours and the Priori Incantatem mystery" Steve "Always Mentioning That Darn Lexicon" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 26 08:07:31 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:07:31 -0000 Subject: CrookShanks In-Reply-To: <9299sl+s7bc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <929jk3+u8o2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7791 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > Crookshanks is an ordinary (thought smart) cat, Sirius says so (oh > I love the > > opportunity to quote) "This cat isn't mad .... He's the most > intelligent of his > > kind I've ever met." p267 PoA hardcover aust (british) ed. That doesn't say that Crookshanks is a cat. It says that he's the most intelligent OF HIS KIND, whatever that is. I'm not convinced he's a cat. In some ways, he's an extension of Hermione in the same way Mrs. Norris is an extension of Filch (for example when he stares at Harry and Ron the way Hermione would have when they're cheating on their Divination homework). If he is a cat, he's a magical cat, which is NOT an ordinary cat at all. Okay, so all cats are SORT of magical in their own jellicle way, but I'm talking about enchanted, overtly magical. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 08:40:47 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:40:47 -0000 Subject: Audiotapes (was: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: <006201c06ec5$43c6f960$7ca7003e@default> Message-ID: <929lif+qo71@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7792 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Maya Crabtree" wrote: > You mean you'd actually prefer to listen to them being read than > to read them yourselves?? why??? My domestic partner, Tim, listens to books on tape instead of reading books whenever he has the choice. One reason is that he can listen to audiotapes while driving the car; the other reason is that he has dyslexia and it takes him FOREVER to struggle through reading one page. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 08:44:04 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:44:04 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore & socks In-Reply-To: <01C06F29.5EECE6A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <929lok+s2a0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7793 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Dumbledore's not lonely - he has Snape to keep him warm at night. Not according to the theory someone (Pippin?) posted, in which there is a Reason that Snape and Filch are so often found together in the middle of the night. Not according to my theory, in which the D of Sn/D is Draco. Not according to the theory in which Snape is a vampire: a vampire *might* be in Dumbledore's bed, but is not warm. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 08:48:35 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:48:35 -0000 Subject: Mundungus Fletcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <929m13+u0oj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7794 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassie Ostrander" wrote: > >I see your point Naama but, a. why was he being investigated by the > >ministry > > Remember what department that Mr Weasley works for? The missuse of > Muggle Artifacts. That does not mean that he was doing "dark arts" > ... It just means that he bewitched something that muggles use. > Like a car. It was not clear to me from Mr. Weasley's statement that Mundungus Fletcher tried to hex him when his back was turned, that Fletcher was the suspect in one of those raids. For all I understand, Fletcher could have been a co-worker in MoM whose attempt to hex Arthur was his idea of a funny practical joke.... From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 09:09:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:09:19 -0000 Subject: Missing link + Fidelius Charm In-Reply-To: <92.e32f770.277992d2@aol.com> Message-ID: <929n7v+cbr9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7795 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SHENmagic at a... wrote: > Remus would not be there [when the Fidelius spell was cast], [as he > was] suspected of collaboration with YouKnowWho (and I wonder how > that came to be). Because he's a werewolf. Remember Ron, who had known Lupin as the best of teachers for a year, responded to Lupin's attempt to ease the pain of Ron's broken leg with 'Get away from me, werewolf!'? When it became impossible to deny that there was a Dark Side spy among the good guys, that the bad guys were not getting their information simply from Divination or something, it was still impossible to believe that any of our trusted, loyal friends, who had all risked their lives for the Light Side on occasion, would have turned to the Dark Side. [Peter WOULD NOT have been assigned the code name "Iago", even if there were code names.] Run down the list of names of our comrades, and at every name, "No, it couldn't possibly be him (or her)." Come to Remus's name on the list. Say "No, it couldn't possibly be him. He's the nicest person anyone would ever want to meet, and so ethical that he sometimes acts the prig." But someone said: "Well, he *is* a werewolf, therefore not always in control of his actions. You know he's not the nice guy on Full Moon nights!" It seemed very unlikely, but anyone else seemed impossible... From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 09:17:45 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:17:45 -0000 Subject: Duelling (was: What *are* the Dark Arts? In-Reply-To: <929ioe+mma7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <929nnp+8ln8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7796 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > No, that would be Charms. That's where they teach Hex-Deflection, > for example. Flitwick is a former champion Dueler. Defensive magic, > as opposed to fighting Evil, is part of the sport of Wizard > Dueling, which is taught in Charms classes. Do you have evidence that Dueling is taught in Charms class, or only logic on your side? You might be right, but I suspect that Dueling is taught not in any class of the curriculum, but in Dueling Clubs. Why did no adult but Lockhart try to sponsor a Dueling Club? Even if traditionally the DADA teacher is the Dueling Club sponsor, they've had such a succession of DADA teachers who were unfit to sponsor a Dueling Club (with the possible exception of 'Mad-Eye Moody', and perhaps Harry was too busy with the Tournament to notice if there were a Dueling Club going on), that the students' education is suffering, and *some* student should have been trying to persuade *some* adult to sponsor a Dueling Club -- why not Snape? In the episode with Lockhart, he showed that he knew what he was doing. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 09:20:44 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:20:44 -0000 Subject: CrookShanks In-Reply-To: <929jk3+u8o2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <929ntc+o4r1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7797 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > That doesn't say that Crookshanks is a cat. It says that he's the > most intelligent OF HIS KIND, whatever that is. I'm not convinced > he's a cat. (snip) If he is a cat, he's a magical cat, which is NOT > an ordinary cat at all. *I* still like the theory that Crookshanks is the offspring of McGonagall in cat Animagus form and a tomcat. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 26 09:40:41 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:40:41 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore & socks Message-ID: <01C06F7D.07C1A420.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7798 "--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Dumbledore's not lonely - he has Snape to keep him warm at night. Not according to the theory someone (Pippin?) posted, in which there is a Reason that Snape and Filch are so often found together in the middle of the night. Not according to my theory, in which the D of Sn/D is Draco. Not according to the theory in which Snape is a vampire: a vampire *might* be in Dumbledore's bed, but is not warm. " very good Rita, very good. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 6:44 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore & socks To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 26 09:47:06 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:47:06 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: CrookShanks Message-ID: <01C06F7D.0BE31340.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7799 "--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > That doesn't say that Crookshanks is a cat. It says that he's the > most intelligent OF HIS KIND, whatever that is. I'm not convinced > he's a cat. (snip) If he is a cat, he's a magical cat, which is NOT > an ordinary cat at all. *I* still like the theory that Crookshanks is the offspring of McGonagall in cat Animagus form and a tomcat." My apologies Steve - you are right, I did mean an ordinary magical cat (though now I think about it - the description of the magical rats had them doing very un rat like things - skipping over their tails - Crookshanks doesn't appear to do anything than un-cat like.) And how do you suppose pregnancy would effect an animagus. I think we might have discussed this before but do you think this means that McGonagall was in cat form for birth or no? Storm (loving the lexicon steve, don't stop promoting) -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:21 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: CrookShanks To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From dmjil at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 13:32:09 2000 From: dmjil at hotmail.com (Mara de Atra) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:32:09 -0000 Subject: Help! (Time Magazine story on Jo) In-Reply-To: <20001226055913.65838.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92a6kp+ccd2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7800 Hi Marijose Here is the link in the Time Magazine Web site: http://www.time.com/time/poy2000/mag/rowling.html Mara de Atra http://www.lacoupedefeu.com http://groups.icq.com/Local/group.asp?no=1542571 http://www.lapetition.com/sign1.cfm?numero=406 http://www.boycott-yahoo.com --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Marijose "D?az" wrote: > Hi!! > > Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas/Hannukah. ^^ > > I wonder if anyone could help me. I live in Mexico and > the Time edition published here is quite local. So, to > make a long story short, Jo Rowling`s story as a > runner-up for the Man of the Year title wasn't > published in the edition I can get. > > I've checked the Time web site and read part of the > story, but from your commentaries, it seems part of it > wasn't included. Basically, it's where Jo speaks about > the characters. I wonder, could anybody explain me > what did she say, please? For instance, why did she > say that Harry is an "old soul", as I've read here? > > Thanks a lot in advance. ^^ > > > Misbehave, > > Marijose > > Who also believes that Remus OR Sirius will die... and > FEARS that it might turn into "Remus AND Sirius". > *sob* > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From ara_kel at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 14:11:31 2000 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 06:11:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lupin and Betrayal Message-ID: <20001226141131.6941.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7801 Rita wrote: <<>> The strong prejudice against werewolves also makes me think of several government agencies in the 1950s and surrounding decades, when homosexuals were routinely denied employment because of the concern that they would be more susceptible to blackmail. They were considered to be "security risks," and not trustworthy. Perhaps a similar situation arose with Lupin. They knew someone had to be the spy, and at first glance, Lupin was the most obvious candidate: although his closest friends knew that he was a werewolf, he understandably tried to keep it quiet. With the wizarding world's strong prejudice against werewolves, it might have seemed to Lupin's friends that he had sold out to Voldemort in order to protect his secret. Sarah "How about a nice _book_?" Ron asked innocently. -- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Dec 26 14:54:18 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 26 Dec 2000 14:54:18 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <977842458.7992@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7802 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Members: Where Do you Live? o U.K. o USA o Canada o Ireland o Brazil o Spanish-speaking Americas o France o Spain & Portugal o Italy & Greece o Switzerland & Benelux o Germany & Austria o Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland o Former USSR o Other Eastern Europe (Poland, Hungary, etc) o India, Pakistan, Bangladesh o Philippines o China, Hong Kong & Taiwan o Japan, Korea o Australia & New Zealand o Southeast Asia o Israel o Asia Minor (excl. Israel) o North Africa o Sub-Saharan Africa o Other To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From amy at wintersmoon.com Tue Dec 26 15:23:49 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (amy) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:23:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix Message-ID: <200012261023.AA141165132@wintersmoon.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7803 Sorry - it's from watching WAY too much Due South...it means "Thank you Kindly" - it goes along with all those other abbreviations...BTW, LOL, IMHO, etc (can we say I've spent WAY too much time on IM (that's AOL's Instant Messenger)) Amy ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Snuffles MacGoo Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:42:52 +1100 >"TYK "- huh? Can you spell out (I thought I was keeping up!) >storm< ________________________________________________________________ Sent via wintersmoon.com WebMail From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 16:04:48 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:04:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Another Thought of Snape and Neville's problems... Message-ID: <20001226160448.2754.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7804 Is it possible that Snape was involved with the attack upon Neville's parents during his "spying" days, which imprinted on Neville's brain (perhaps he was there during the attack when he was only 2 years old, or the like), and that has pre-disposed Neville against Snape, whether he realizes that's why he acts like a git in the class or not (melting cauldrons, etc...)... This doesn't mean that Snape literally attacked the Longbottoms, just perhaps been there during it. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 16:05:53 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 08:05:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Crookshanks Message-ID: <20001226160553.4315.qmail@web2106.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7805 , here's an odd thought. If McG was Crookshanks mother, then why was he in the "pet shop" in the first place? What mother would let her son/daughter/other leave her side, especially if that was the case? ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Snuffles MacGoo To: 'HPforGrownups at egroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 3:47 AM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: CrookShanks "--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > That doesn't say that Crookshanks is a cat. It says that he's the > most intelligent OF HIS KIND, whatever that is. I'm not convinced > he's a cat. (snip) If he is a cat, he's a magical cat, which is NOT > an ordinary cat at all. *I* still like the theory that Crookshanks is the offspring of McGonagall in cat Animagus form and a tomcat." My apologies Steve - you are right, I did mean an ordinary magical cat (though now I think about it - the description of the magical rats had them doing very un rat like things - skipping over their tails - Crookshanks doesn't appear to do anything than un-cat like.) And how do you suppose pregnancy would effect an animagus. I think we might have discussed this before but do you think this means that McGonagall was in cat form for birth or no? Storm (loving the lexicon steve, don't stop promoting) -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:21 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: CrookShanks To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 26 16:08:55 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:08:55 -0000 Subject: Duelling (was: What *are* the Dark Arts? In-Reply-To: <929nnp+8ln8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92afqn+tdvg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7806 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" > wrote: > > > No, that would be Charms. That's where they teach Hex-Deflection, > > for example. Flitwick is a former champion Dueler. Defensive magic, > > as opposed to fighting Evil, is part of the sport of Wizard > > Dueling, which is taught in Charms classes. > > Do you have evidence that Dueling is taught in Charms class, or > only logic on your side? You might be right, but I suspect that > Dueling is taught not in any class of the curriculum, but in Dueling > Clubs. Dueling per se isn't taught in Charms. The statement I was responding to suggested that DADA should perhaps be called Defensive Magic. Defensive magic, among other things, is taught in Charms. The reason I say that is that they DID study Hex-Deflection in that class in GF28. The SPORT of Dueling isn't taught in any class, as you point out (although it might give Hooch something to do to earn her paycheck between Quidditch matches and the occasional first year flying class. She doesn't even take care of the Quittich pitch! Hagrid did that in SS/PS!). The magic skills needed aren't simply Dueling skills, and they are covered not in DADA but in Charms. Another note: When the Firebolt was suspected of being hexed, who did they turn to to examine it? Fliwick. Why didn't that go to the DADA teacher? Because DADA involved CURSES, which are intentional, evil attacks on another person. Charms deals with hexes and jinxes, which are spells which may have negative effect but which don't have their source in evil intent. You can hex or jinx an object to do something unexpected, but if you want it to actively seek the destruction of person, you need to curse it. And now that I've worked that all out, JKR will write something that will toss all my logic out the window, I just know. But in the meantime... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon (which features a WONDERFUL magic section) http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Dec 26 16:09:36 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:09:36 -0000 Subject: Mystery parallels In-Reply-To: <92660a+gi92@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92afs0+66uf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7807 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, tonasket at h... wrote: > > > > Who the heck is Jenny? Maybe that's why I didn't expect her! BTW, I > > didn't expect Ginny either... > > > Hey Scott, Some of us listen to the audio books, and have no idea of > the proper spelling. Lighten up, ya squib. > > DJ I noticed that the listmoms haven't jumped in here, so I will since I seem to be a matriarch in the club (longevity speaking). DJ, that was uncalled for. Scott was making a lighthearted joke. We have quite a number of members here who "read" the books on audio. We understand that sometimes something get lost in spelling/grammar/etc. when one doesn't read the books. We all like each other and treat each other and our opinions with respect. Sometimes we don't agree, but we don't let that get in the way of our enjoyment of Harry. So take a deep breath and think about what the original poster meant before you jump in with a judgement, okay? Jeralyn, the Voicelady From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 16:10:47 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:10:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7808 Hello, i hope everyone is having happy holidays and is keeping up with HP news.... Has anyone tried the Everyflavor Betts Beans? I can't find them here in Michigan. Oh i had a point/ Everyone makes Snape out to be in Voldies inner circle turned spy. How do we know that he wasn't a spy for dumbledore to begin with? Remember, Dumbledore knows stuff that the Ministry didn't know. And someone said that even all of Voldies followers didn't even know who each other were. Therefore, i conclude that it is entirely possible for snape not to be a bad guy at all. VOX ET PRAETEREA NIHIL _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 16:33:59 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:33:59 -0000 Subject: Various and sundry topics Message-ID: <92ah9n+oios@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7809 Good morning, everyone... Rita wrote: "Altho', in my universe, the young Sirius wasn't in any hurry to marry Jenny or Anika or Gwyneth when there were So Many pretty girls to sleep with... "They're always chasing after me, and it would be too cruel to refuse them...." LOL! I think more along the lines of your universe, Rita (although I am enjoying Dracaena Draco). Kathy wrote: I forgot to add...the first man who ever broke my heart had untidy black hair and startlingly green eyes (no glasses though)...which is probably the REAL root of my R/H shipperdom! Poor girl... one of my high school crushes had messy black hair (we called him Spike) but his eyes were brown. So I don't think that counts. Peg wrote: "If Ebony is correct, that Hermione is the symbol of JKR in the story, and the story is constructed so that she longs for Harry, then to me, that means the Hermione IS a Mary Sue character, Q.E.D. Would like a fuller explanation from Ebony as to why she thinks Hermione ISN'T a Mary Sue." Definition of "Mary Sue" (which to my knowledge is a fanfiction and not a literary term--I didn't use the term at all in my draft of the paper, simply to clarify my position here) according to ff.net's Fanfiction terminology list: "A character that may be loosely based on the author. The character often is perfect and has a tendency to save the day. The story may focus around canon characters and their relationship to the character. If a character is called a Mary Sue, it is generally considered a not nice thing." Hope this helps. Peg wrote: "You know, many fan fic writers act as if Peter was merely a tag-a-long, not as good at magic as James, Sirius and Lupin, not "really" one of the four, almost sort of resented. I think this diminishes the fact of his betrayal. It seems to be a sort of squeamishness/reluctance to claim Peter as "one of us"--because it's too scarey to imagine that someone you have totally accepted and considered one of your team could have betrayed you." Interesting observation. Over the holiday I thought about the significance of Peter's name. The Biblical Peter wasn't on the fringes of things; he was a leader amongst the Twelve... and yet he betrayed Christ. This is also why Ron is not immune to fulfilling this role in his generation... because he *is* trusted. Betrayal via an associate is one thing. Betrayal via your own flesh and blood--or your own right arm--is quite another. Some have mentioned their like of Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing" (which is not one of my favorites--I prefer the tragedies) while chatting about their R/H leanings. I'll use a line from Julius Caesar that I think fits in this case: "Yet Brutus says he was ambitious/And Brutus is an honorable man." Also consider the fact that shape-shifting is a possibility in this magical world. Someone else could shape-shift (via Polyjuice Potion, etc.) into Ron or Hermione and do a lot of damage. If we follow the argument I've seen thrown about here that Harry is much closer to Ron than Hermione, the logical choice would be Ron. Susan wrote: "Hope everyone who celebrates has had a lovely Christmas. Here in Michigan, it's been the quintessential Christmas. Clear and cold and covered with snow, icicles everywhere..." ...and ice, and older cars stalling, and biting cold while you're waiting on the bus, salt creating huge potholes/eating away at your car's paint, more snow to come so that the curbs resemble tiny mountains. I lived in Florida from 1995-1999, and during a winter like this I am trying to remember why I came back. ;) Hope everyone's holidays were and are happy. It's Boxing Day for our English and Canadian list members, right? For me, it's the first day of Kwanzaa?Umoja (unity). ;) --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 16:52:10 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:52:10 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions Message-ID: <92aibq+5sv2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7810 I need help again... Right now I am trying to write bits and pieces of Ron and Hermione's wedding as a flashback. I'm unsure of two things: MUSIC. *What* does wizarding music sound like? I've noticed that 95% of the songs tossed about here and on the PoU list I have never heard of before in my life. I have the sneaking suspicion that wizards in this particular milieu don't listen to hip-hop and R&B, the music forms to which I'm addicted. As for British "Muggle" music, I'm ashamed to say that I know little about it--the only two groups I'm familiar with from across the pond are the Beatles and Heatwave, neither of which are very contemporary. Anyone know what JKR listens to? HELP! WEDDING TRADITIONS. I have the magical wedding traditions down all right (and they were lots of fun to invent/write), but I'm unsure if I'm missing something that's particularly British. I'm addicted to TLC's "A Wedding Story", and have seen all kinds of weddings... most of the Western ones were fairly the same. Am I correct in assuming this? Thanks for any help you can provide. As always, credit will be given to whom credit is due. --Ebony From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 17:07:36 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:07:36 -0000 Subject: The audio versions... In-Reply-To: <92afs0+66uf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92aj8o+qohr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7811 I wrote: "Who the heck is Jenny? Maybe that's why I didn't expect her! BTW, I didn't expect Ginny either..." DJ wrote: "Hey Scott, Some of us listen to the audio books, and have no idea of the proper spelling. Lighten up, ya squib." Voicelady wrote: "DJ, that was uncalled for. Scott was making a lighthearted joke. We have quite a number of members here who "read" the books on audio. We understand that sometimes something get lost in spelling/grammar/etc..." Even more lighthearted if you notice that I was correcting myself :) BTW, I am really enjoying the Boxing Day presentation of Philosopher's Stone on the BBC radio 4. (glued to the computer...) It's over at app. 3 this afternoon (EST) and 8 pm (GMT)..enjoy! http://www.bbc.co.uk/whatson/dontmiss/dontmiss02.shtml Scott From kathleen at carr.org Tue Dec 26 16:53:02 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:53:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Every Flavor Beans Message-ID: <200012261707.eBQH7kU04057@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7812 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Hello, i hope everyone is having happy holidays and is keeping up with HP >news.... Has anyone tried the Everyflavor Betts Beans? Yeah, Santa was good to me. But I got a horseradish flavored one this morning ("hmm, maybe I'll try this nice coconut...") Kathy From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 17:22:32 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:22:32 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions In-Reply-To: <92aibq+5sv2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ak4o+bj47@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7813 Ebony wrote: MUSIC. As for British "Muggle" music, I'm ashamed to say that I know little about it--the only two groups I'm familiar with from across the pond are the Beatles and Heatwave, neither of which are very contemporary. Anyone know what JKR listens to? HELP! -Help! indeed. JKR actually does like the Beatles if that's what you're looking for, and the Smiths I think too. You could always have the Weird Sisters play, or then again Perhaps not. WEDDING TRADITIONS. I have the magical wedding traditions down all right (and they were lots of fun to invent/write), but I'm unsure if > I'm missing something that's particularly British. I'm addicted to > TLC's "A Wedding Story", and have seen all kinds of weddings... most of the Western ones were fairly the same. Am I correct in assuming this? -How Financially solvet were they at the time? Where was their wedding held...hmmm. I mean a wedding in a church might be slightly different than one held in the Burrow. Then again, what do I know? Scott Who will put in his new "Beatle's 1" CD when PS is finished... From yael_pou at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 17:43:47 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:43:47 +0200 Subject: Fw: Story looking for an author Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7814 Ok, I'm down to my almost last resort now. My apologies to whoever got this a few days ago with the HP_FanFiction group. Hi, I know this is not the nicest thing to say on a fanfic egroup, but I'm tired of writing fic. I had a very specific goal to achieve with writing (improving my non-native English), and it seems that I can't achieve it, so from now on, I only want to read fanfic. But, I don't want to leave my fic hanging in the air, so I'm now looking for someone to take over it. That someone should: 1. Be able to write very long installments. (and have the fic to prove it). 2. Have read at least the previous chapters of "Krum Do I Love?" and liked at least the general plot line. If you haven't read it, be warned - it's very long, and you probably don't want to start doing it now. 3. Be willing to get the general lines of the rest of the plot and follow it to some level. I won't force my story on the new author, but I do want to be involved at least to some extent. Well, if anyone is interested in the job, please mail me privately (to yael8765 at hotmail.com or yael_pou at hotmail.com) or just reply to this mail. Have a happy happy holiday! Thanks, Yael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Their clothes were cut off the edge of the latest fashion, which was currently inclining towards wide hats, padded shoulders, narrow waists and pointed shoes and gave its followers the appearance of being very well-dressed nails." - Terry Pratchett, Pyramids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 17:47:58 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:47:58 -0000 Subject: Philosopher's Stone...A very Harry Christmas Message-ID: <92alke+r3ot@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7815 Ok, I just have to tell everyone all the Harry stuff that I got for Christmas yesterday. -A Hogwarts journal with a Hologram on the front moving between the seal and the school. It has black pages and a green pen. -The other Hogwarts journal. -The Harry and the Sorting Hat secret box (I lost the thing that came in it and had to search all the discarded wrapping paper and boxes. Finally found it though.) -The mystery at Hogwarts game. -The Month Calendar and the Day by day one. (My Granmother, who has only read book one, took one look at it and said "Is Harry supposed to be drunk?") -Those Enesco plastic stones. (Don't laugh, though I did since I had told them the other day that they weren't worth buying ...oops) -I also got the Qudditch notepad thing with the Brookstick pen (really cute!) WOW! That looks like a lot of HP stuff. What did everyone else get? Now I must tell you about the nice little suprise I had later. I was at my cousins for Christmas Dinner and one girl's bedside table there was a copy of Philosopher's Stone. I have been wanting to get the British Edition so I asked her where she had gotten it. "Oh you can have it! Really I don't want it." Huh?!?! While I can't imagine not liking Harry she didn't and didn't want the book which had been sent to her by a friend in Germany. Anyway I was able to keep it! Yay! Hope everyone else had a Harry Christmas...though from the sound of things many of you already have most of the merchandise.. Z:) Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 26 18:29:07 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:29:07 -0600 Subject: HP Merchandise for Christmas Message-ID: <3A48E373.A68A410A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7816 Hi -- I'm back from a brief Christmas respite (didn't even turn the computer *on* yesterday -- wow!). I hope everyone had a nice holiday, however you celebrate it. Scott detailed his HP Christmas goodies, so I thought I would chime in too -- 1. Fat Lady bookends -- great! 2. Box calendar & wall calendar -- also pretty cool, despite the problems with some of the artwork 3. A stuffed Hedwig attached by strings to a Hogwarts banner & holding a parchment note in her claws. When you move the banner, she flaps her wings. I hadn't seen her at all before, but my mother-in-law found her at Hallmark. She is *very* cool, although my husband is horrified by her! 4. Stationary set 5. Beach towel -- way cool considering the climate where I live 6. Picture frame with the four houses 7. Hogwarts mug 8. Gryffindor & Slytherin tumbler set 9. HP Collectibles Value book 10. Quidditch Board Game 11. Various bookmarks & one of those silly storyscopes in my stocking My sister & I played the Quidditch game twice yesterday & have the following comments: 1. The size of the board itself needs to be increased drastically. There is simply not enough room for all the pieces to move easily. You end up accidentally turning over tokens as you move your players around on the field. We turned over the snitch once by accident (i.e., no player had landed on it but as my sister moved on of her players, she flipped it over) and had to get my husband to come randomly replace it somewhere. 2. It says you can play with 14 players -- 7 on each team. But, the keeper has a very *small* role in the board game & would be bored silly. 12 players max is better. We decided that the size of the field itself would make it impossible to play easily though with more than 4 players, 2 being probably preferable. It's necessary to stand up alot in playing to move your pieces around due to the small size of the playing board. 3. It got easier with the 2nd game, but it's a bit challenging to decipher all the rules. It's hard, for example, to keep up with which players are out for 2 full rounds, 1 full round or just in slow potion play for any one turn. 4. It's extremely difficult to use the launcher to shoot the quaffle -- the quaffle nearly ended up underneath the freezer at one point last night. My sister way overshot it, and it lodged between the broom closet & the freezer. As I was trying to extricate it with a broom, it nearly rolled under the freezer. The game should come with a few extra quaffle balls I would think. 5. The one thing that was pretty cool was that the snitch was quite elusive in both our matches. It wasn't found until there were only 5-10 tokens still uncovered in each game. There is some measure of strategy involved, although it's possible your seeker could land on the snitch token on the first move out of the box & end the game immediately. All in all, it's a good game but does need some improvements (and my sister & I were baffled that the designers think this game is suitable for 8 & up -- I don't know how 8 yr olds would keep track of the rules & the people in play, but maybe I'm short-selling the kiddos again). Penny From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Dec 26 18:33:26 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:33:26 -0000 Subject: In File Section now (Re: Help! (Time Magazine story on Jo)) In-Reply-To: <20001226055913.65838.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92ao9m+kiel@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7817 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Marijose "D?az" wrote: > Hi!! > > Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas/Hannukah. ^^ > > I wonder if anyone could help me. I live in Mexico and > the Time edition published here is quite local. So, to > make a long story short, Jo Rowling`s story as a > runner-up for the Man of the Year title wasn't > published in the edition I can get. > > I've checked the Time web site and read part of the > story, but from your commentaries, it seems part of it > wasn't included. Basically, it's where Jo speaks about > the characters. I wonder, could anybody explain me > what did she say, please? For instance, why did she > say that Harry is an "old soul", as I've read here? > > Thanks a lot in advance. ^^ > > > Misbehave, > > Marijose > > Who also believes that Remus OR Sirius will die... and > FEARS that it might turn into "Remus AND Sirius". > *sob* I just uploaded the article to the file section here. It's too bad the extra article isn't on the TIME website. It's more interesting to HP fans than the longer article, imo. :-) Milz From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 18:51:16 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:51:16 -0000 Subject: CrookShanks In-Reply-To: <929jk3+u8o2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92apb4+e2uh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7818 New comment at bottom. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > > wrote: > > > Crookshanks is an ordinary (thought smart) cat, Sirius says so > (oh > > I love the > > > opportunity to quote) "This cat isn't mad .... He's the most > > intelligent of his > > > kind I've ever met." p267 PoA hardcover aust (british) ed. > > That doesn't say that Crookshanks is a cat. It says that he's the > most intelligent OF HIS KIND, whatever that is. I'm not convinced > he's a cat. In some ways, he's an extension of Hermione in the same > way Mrs. Norris is an extension of Filch (for example when he stares > at Harry and Ron the way Hermione would have when they're cheating on > their Divination homework). If he is a cat, he's a magical cat, which > is NOT an ordinary cat at all. > > Okay, so all cats are SORT of magical in their own jellicle way, but > I'm talking about enchanted, overtly magical. Crookshanks has to be even more special than that. Pets in the wizard world are all magical (well, most, Scabbers was thought to have no powers). When Sirius was talking of "his kind" I'm pretty sure he meant magical cats kind, not muggle cats. Naama From catlady at wicca.net Tue Dec 26 19:05:49 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:05:49 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions In-Reply-To: <92aibq+5sv2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92aq6d+s8f8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7819 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > I need help again... > > Right now I am trying to write bits and pieces of Ron and Hermione's > wedding as a flashback. I'm unsure of two things: > WEDDING TRADITIONS. I have the magical wedding traditions down all > right (and they were lots of fun to invent/write), but I'm unsure > if I'm missing something that's particularly British. IIRC, rave's fic Bryter Layter, she has James and Lily having an entirely Muggle-style wedding (which, on the theory of the bride's parents paying for the wedding, makes sense -- and Hermione is also Muggle-born) and then having an entirely Wizard-traditional naming ceremony for Harry to make up for it. In which the officiant is a "druid". I have severe doubts about whether wizards HAVE any entirely Wizard-tradition ceremonies for life events that wizards have in common with Muggles, but I desperately love Sirius's reaction to gazing at baby Harry in his arms: much to the druid's annoyance, he yelled to James: "Prongs, he looks just like you! A little baby stag, a fawn, I'm going to call him Spots!" From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 20:04:23 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:04:23 -0600 Subject: Fw: I'm Not Martha - Tuesday, December 26, 2000 (Origins of Boxing Day, OT!!!!) Message-ID: <00af01c06f77$15a1f1e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7820 ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Not Martha" Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 3:16 PM Subject: I'm Not Martha - Tuesday, December 26, 2000 > I'M NOT MARTHA - Tuesday, December 26, 2000 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Subscribe to I'm Not Martha FREE! Send a blank email to: > Subscribe > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Unsubscribe Instructions At The Bottom > *--*--*--*--*--* > > Hi! I'm Lizzy!! and I'm not Martha!!! > > So how was your Christmas, Chanukah, or Kwanzaa? It was > lovely around here. We even had some snow. Flakes as big as > quarters and falling like in a movie. Not so much that it > was getting in the way but enough that you felt like Loretta > Young in "The Bishop's Wife"...a great holiday flick and > personal favorite. > > I got a few gifts that really fit the bill. I am the happiest > with gifts that show someone was listening. These gifts are > seldom expensive but so thoughtful. Big Sis Harriet's daughter, > Halle was incredibly clever. She found a traveling tea pot. > I like Chinese green tea. You have to brew it in a pot with > just-boiling water. This is hard to get away from home. If > the water is not hot enough then the leaves don't settle down > at the bottom and end up filling your cup with floating tea > leaves! The "teapot" is a clear plastic cylinder that holds > about 12 ounces of liquid and has a plunger similar to French > filter coffeemakers. You put the leaves in with the hot water, > let them brew and then push down the plunger so there are no > leaves in the tea! It even came with a second top so you can > roady-ride with your tea. Terrific! > > The Contessa has recently returned from her two month > sabbatical in Venice to learn Italian. My present from her > was a pair of hot pink gondoliers' shoes. Adorable! Marge > gave me a big cup like the French au lait cups and all the > makings for fabulous hot chocolate. She knows me well! I > love hot chocolate! > > Now it's Boxing Day. And if you don't know about it, here's > your big chance. Penrose, my great backyard neighbor from > Great Britain, gave me this wonderful article. His family > always observes the day since the tradition originates in > England. I thought I would pass it along to you. It's from > Urban Legends. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ((((( Listen Up ShagMail Subscribers )))))) > > FREE 35 MM Camera Just For Being A Subscriber To ShagMail.com > > We did not want to leave all of the old subscribers out of > something we are doing for the new subscribers. All new > subscribers have been offered a FREE 35 MM Genuine Mekai > Camera for subscribing. We could not forget all of you who > have faithfully been reading our email for so many months... > so, if you also want to get your FREE camera (you only pay S&H), > then click on the link below. Thank you for sharing our email > and have a Happy Holiday Season. To get your FREE camera visit: > > FREE Camera To ShagMail.com Readers > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Origins: Few Americans have any inkling that there even is > such a thing as Boxing Day, let alone what the reason might > be for a holiday so named. However, before one concludes > we're about to rag on Americentric attitudes towards other > cultures, we should quickly point out that even though > Boxing Day is celebrated in Australia, Britain, New Zealand, > and Canada, not all that many in those countries have much of > a notion as to why they get the 26 of December off. Boxing > Day might well be a statutory holiday in some of those lands, > but it's not a well understood one. > > Despite the lively images suggested by the name, it has > nothing to do with pugilistic expositions between tanked-up > family members who have dearly been looking forward to > taking a round out of each other for the past year. Likewise, > it does not gain its name from the overpowering need to rid > the house of an excess of wrappings and mountains of now > useless cardboard boxes the day after St. Nick arrived to > turn a perfectly charming and orderly home into a maelstrom > of discarded tissue paper. > > The name also has nothing to do with returning unwanted gifts > to the stores they came from, hence its common association > with hauling about boxes on the day after Christmas. > > The holiday's roots can be traced to Britain, where Boxing > Day is also known as St. Stephen's Day. Reduced to the > simplest essence, its origins are found in a long-ago > practice of giving cash or durable goods to those of the > lower classes. Gifts among equals were exchanged on or before > Christmas Day, but beneficences to those less fortunate were > bestowed the day after. > > And that's about as much as anyone can definitively say about > its origin because once you step beyond that point, it's > straight into the quagmire of debated claims and dueling > folklorists. Which, by the way, is what we're about to muddy > our boots with. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Everybody needs Friends... It's The Best of Friends (Video/DVD) > > This special Collection showcases the 10-Best Episodes of > FRIENDS, as voted by YOU... the fans! You'll love this > collection because it includes ADDED FOOTAGE never-before-seen. > Plus, there's TWO BEHIND-THE-SCENES FEATURETTES and the music > video "I'll Be There For You". Sit back and enjoy it with > friends of your own! To order click on the video or DVD link: > > Order The Video Collection for Only $24.98 > > The Video Collection for Only $24.98 > > Order DVD Collection for Only $34.98 > > The DVD Collection for Only $34.98 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Although there is general agreement that the holiday is of > British origin and it has to do with giving presents to the > less fortunate, there is still dispute as to how the name > came about or precisely what unequal relationship is being > recognized. > > At various times, the following "origins" have been loudly > asserted as the correct one: > * Centuries ago, ordinary members of the merchant class > gave boxes of food and fruit to trades people and servants > the day after Christmas in an ancient form of Yuletide tip. > These gifts were an expression of gratitude to those who > worked for them, in much the same way that one now tips the > paperboy an extra $20 at Christmastime or slips the > building's superintendent a bottle of fine whisky. Those > long-ago gifts were done up in boxes, hence the day coming > to be known as "Boxing Day." > * Christmas celebrations in the old days entailed bringing > everyone together from all over a large estate, thus creating > one of the rare instances when everyone could be found in > one place at one time. This gathering of his extended family, > so to speak, presented the lord of the manor with a ready-made > opportunity to easily hand out that year's stipend of > necessities. Thus, the day after Christmas, after all the > partying was over and it was almost time to go back to far- > flung homesteads, serfs were presented with their annual > allotment of practical goods. Who got what was determined by > the status of the worker and his relative family size, with > spun cloth, leather goods, durable food supplies, tools, and > whatnot being handed out. Under this explanation, there was > nothing voluntary about this transaction; the lord of the > manor was obligated to supply these goods. The items were > chucked into boxes, one box for each family, to make > carrying away the results of this annual restocking easier; > thus, the day came to be known as "Boxing Day." > * Many years ago, on the day after Christmas, servants in > Britain carried boxes to their masters when they arrived for > the day's work. It was a tradition that on this day all > employers would put coins in the boxes, as a special end-of- > the-year gift. In a closely-related version of this > explanation, apprentices and servants would on that day get > to smash open small earthenware boxes left for them by their > masters. These boxes would house small sums of money > specifically left for them. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > +----- The Best Movie Music on CD -----+ > > The movies of 1998 were filled with beautiful romantic > ballads. This collection is the best of the best performed > by the London West End Singers from such hit movies as > Armageddon, Mulan, City of Angels, Hope Floats and others. > This is one CD you won't want to miss! For the complete song > listing or to order for only $9.98 visit: > http://www.pulsetv.com/catalog/pulse2/G30191502:P626 > > > Click Here To Order Movie Music > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > This dual-versioned theory melds the two previous ones > together into a new form; namely, the employer who was > obligated to hand out something on Boxing Day, but this time > to recipients who were not working the land for him and thus > were not dependent on him for all they wore and ate. The > "box" thus becomes something beyond ordinary compensation > (in a way goods to landed serfs was not), yet it's also not > a gift in that there's nothing voluntary about it. Under this > theory, the boxes are an early form of Christmas bonus, > something employees see as their entitlement. > > * Boxes in churches for seasonal donations to the needy were > opened on Christmas Day, and the contents distributed by the > clergy the following day. The contents of this alms box > originated with the ordinary folks in the parish who were > thus under no direct obligation to provide anything at all > and were certainly not tied to the recipients by a employer/ > employee relationship. In this case, the "box" in "Boxing Day" > comes from that one gigantic lockbox the donations were left in. > > Whichever theory one chooses to back, the one thread common > to all is the theme of one-way provision to those not > inhabiting the same social level. As mentioned previously, > equals exchanged gifts on Christmas Day or before, but > lessers (be they trades people, employees, servants, serfs, > or the generic "poor") received their "boxes" on the day after. > It is to be noted that the social superiors did not receive > anything back from those they played Lord Bountiful to: a > gift in return would have been seen as a presumptuous act of > laying claim to equality, the very thing Boxing Day was an > entrenched bastion against. Boxing Day was, after all, about > preserving class lines. > > Barbara "lines of the times" Mikkelson > > Sightings: Good King Wenceslas' gifts of bread, wine, and > firewood to a poor man whom he observed struggling through > the snow took place "on the Feast of Stephen." > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > CHRISTOPHER LOWELL says that FittingPretty is the best answer > to make slipcovers stay put! > > Makes Sure Fit slipcovers look like the picture promises. > No more tucking and retucking. > > And now you can make your own picture perfect slipcovers with > sheets. Curtains, too. > ALL YOU NEED IS AN IRON AND FITTINGPRETTY!!! > FREE Tuck-in Tool with a $40 purchase. Order NOW! > > Visit: Fitting Pretty > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Questions... Comments... email us at: > email Lizzy > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > To UNSUBSCRIBE visit: > Unsubscribe > ************************************************************ > > To SUBSCRIBE visit: > Subscribe > ************************************************************ > > Want some Fun and Amusements sent by email FREE! Visit: > FREE Newsletters > ************************************************************ > > END OF I'M NOT MARTHA - Another FREE ShagMail publication > http://www.shagmail.com > Copyright 2000 by Pulse Direct, Inc. All rights reserved. > Feel free to forward this, in its entirety, to others. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to notmartha as: gypsycaine at yahoo.com From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 19:26:26 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:26:26 -0000 Subject: One big happy family In-Reply-To: <200012231953.eBNJrhU22513@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <92ard2+u9j5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7821 I wrote: > >However if it is Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, everyone's > >happy. Harry gets not only a girl who adores him (and I'm hoping for > >some proof in the future that she's worthy of him as well, since she's > >not very fleshed-out yet), he also gets the family he's always lacked, > >and who have specifically shown him the only familial love he's ever > >had. He (and Hermione both, this way) gets to be an insider in the > >whole wizard culture for the first time, as he's joining a big old > >wizarding family. He also (what could be better?) gets his two best > >friends as brother and sister-in-law, and everyone can gather together > >at the Burrow for wonderful family holidays. It's just so perfect! > >To me it's like the pieces of a puzzle fitting together - sure, you > >can force pieces into other places, but the picture doesn't end up > >nearly as pretty. > Kathleen wrote: > Kimberly, have you read "The Best Man" series by Mrs. Weasley? If not, > do...from your message I think would really like it. It's definitely one of > my favorite R/H stories, and probably the best grown-up R/H, H/G story out > there. > > Kathy Kathy, Thanks for the recommendation. I haven't read *any* HP fanfic as yet - I don't want it to color my reading of the 'real thing'. My thought is that after I've read the whole series I'll be jonesing for a fix much more than now, so I'm trying very hard to wait until then. I will definitely make note of this one though, so I can read it when I either give in and start on the fanfic, or have finished the whole series. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way. I will have my fingers crossed for the next few years hoping that everything ends up either this way, or with equally overwhelming happiness for all my beloved characters. Maybe there is a character or two we haven't met yet who will drive us all to new heights of speculation, but in the mean time, I'll be rooting for the 'one big happy family' theory. Thanks again! kimberly From particle at urbanet.ch Tue Dec 26 19:31:12 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:31:12 +0100 Subject: Tidbits of Snapeness, and Peter's strength References: Message-ID: <3A48F1FF.E4724106@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7822 Dumbledore said at Karkaroff's trial (I forget the chapter number - 'The Pensieve') that Snape had become a spy *before* Voldemort fell. The Longbottoms were attacked afterwards, because Crouch Jr. and Co. were trying to find out where Voldemort, who had already fallen, was currently located. Again, at Karkaroff's trial, Dumbledore said that Snape had been a Death Eater before turning back to the good guys. Quite apart from the Ron-the-traitor debate, Peter is portrayed as a weakling for two reasons apart from squeamishness: 1. McGonagall says in the Hogsmeade conversation that Peter wasn't in the 'same league as Potter and Black, talent-wise', and that she was 'often quite harsh with him' for that reason. If you'll notice, she's also quite harsh with Neville, who doesn't exactly have a lot of aptitude in Transfig (or much of anything else, for that matter, although my theory is that it's more a block coming from fear of what happened to his more-than-competent-parents or simple lack of self-esteem than a lack of talent...but I digress), which sort of makes people think of Peter as a less likable version of Neville, coupled with the sqeamishness. 2. Lupin states that Peter needed all the help he could get from James and Sirius to become an Animagus. This isn't to say that he's as useless as a lot of people seem to think he is, just not very brilliant, either. And I don't think he was on the fringes at all - I doubt Sirius, James, and Lupin are really the elitist-genius type, and so there's no real reason for them to have excluded him. ~Firebolt Kassie Ostrander wrote: > Hello, i hope everyone is having happy holidays and is keeping up with HP > news.... Has anyone tried the Everyflavor Betts Beans? I can't find them > here in Michigan. > > Oh i had a point/ Everyone makes Snape out to be in Voldies inner circle > turned spy. How do we know that he wasn't a spy for dumbledore to begin > with? Remember, Dumbledore knows stuff that the Ministry didn't know. And > someone said that even all of Voldies followers didn't even know who each > other were. Therefore, i conclude that it is entirely possible for snape > not to be a bad guy at all. > > VOX ET PRAETEREA NIHIL > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Tue Dec 26 19:45:58 2000 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:45:58 -0000 Subject: Hello from a new member Message-ID: <92ashm+ou4a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7823 Hi! I'm Keith (some of you might know me from the Paradigm of Uncertainty and HP FanFiction eGroups as the author of Ginny The Vampire Slayer), an 18 year old British student. I'm also currently listening to Book 1 being read out on the radio - believe it or not, they're airing the whole thing, unabridged, in one go! From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Dec 26 18:47:18 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:47:18 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Merchandise for Christmas Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7824 I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 20:04:41 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:04:41 -0000 Subject: Ron - relationships - J & L's jobs In-Reply-To: <923csf+c11g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92atkp+sdk7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7825 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > Okay, as I've gotten caught up on the posts, I see all my last post > did was repeat Kimberley's post ( sorry about that). It's quite all right - I'm glad I don't stand completely alone! >And, I see > where many points were attacked. Maybe addressing what the > characters 'need' stems from that we're (many of us) adults who have > been through all that H, H & R, not to mention G, are just starting > to go through now. As adults, we're better understanding what a good, > healthy relationship 'needs' and trying to impose that on the canon. And also maybe we're forcing real life onto fiction, which can be deadly. As I said, I'd be a no-shipper if this was the real world, as I'd rather real kids become adults before choosing their lifelong mates. > I just don't think JKR is going to take it to that depth. I wouldn't > expect to learn what Ginny 'needs' in an adult relationship. True, > as Rita said, Harry may die, but I'm considering this happening less > and less as time goes by. I may think differently by the time OoP > comes out; something in it may reinforce the 'Harry's gonna die!' > suspicion. But, for now, I'm thinking probably not (that he'll die), > and I really hope not Snape either. People keep pointing out > that 'opposites attract' doesn't mean the relationship will be good, > or even work at all on any level. I do agree with this, IRL, > anyway. As for Ron and Herm being the Bickersons, it's usually him > needling her, and she reacts, right? He and Harry are both unsure > how to 'talk' to girls, maybe he's just still in the 'pester them' > stage. Hormones have just really started kicking in. See above about imposing reality onto fiction, and also nearly every romantic comedy ever made to support my feeling that the bickering is just the immature minds way of masking deeper feelings that they are not yet ready to deal with. I don't think it indicates an unhealthy relationship at all. Yes, he > drooled over Fleur, as did all the guys, pretty much; but he's > probably (unconsciously) mixed up over 'liking' Herm, and seeing her > as one of his best friends--a pal, a buddy, a fellow adventurer. > These kids are going to do a lot of growing up in the next few > books. Maybe Ron will come into his own and mellow out a bit. I > know a lot of young men (and women) who did a lot of maturing between > 14 and 17, and they never had to face a Vold, either. I still expect > Ron to be a smart-aleck (that's his 'role' after all, he makes the > wisecracks, he's comic-relief), but in a more good-natured way. I > really believe JKR's going to go for the 'happily ever after' angle, > the neat and easy tie-up. I'm hoping and praying that that's what she's going for, since she's created characters that I've grown to love so. The only reason for my stance is that I honestly think that it gives *all* of the characters the chance to be Happy Ever After. >I never really saw Ginny as whiny, as much > as pretty freaked out, btw. We are talking about the CoS Ginny, yes? > GoF Ginny was pretty subdued and calm, plus, seemed maturing quite > well. Refused to tell her bro and Harry (her crush) whom Herm was > going to the ball with, seems like a good start. And, like someone > said, we'll see more of her in OoP, and after as well, I'm sure. I also think that her kindness to Neville (and her admonishing Harry and Ron not to make light of him) speaks very well of her. That solidified in my mind that she is going to eventually be proven worthy of Harry's love. Harry and Ron and even Hermione have not given the boy enough credit in the past, but she stood up for him. She needs some more development, but I already quite like her. kimberly > BTW, Amy was asking about J & L's jobs? JKR said what they did will > be important to the story, but yes, James' money and cloak were > inherited. And, I do think "Order of The Phoenix" refers to those > who fought Vold twenty-five years ago, all the good guys, rather than > Dumble's peers. > > Okay, out again... > > Kelley From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 21:00:45 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 15:00:45 -0600 Subject: Stephen's version Message-ID: <010a01c06f7f$323f1aa0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7826 Listening to the aired version, I can see everyone's thoughts that Stephen's version is better. I liked both, actually. Stephen's doesn't have such a thick accent as Jim sports, but Jim gives more flux in voices. I wouldn't mind grabbing a copy of all 4 of the Stephen versions! :) It was a pleasant airing, as well--except for having to re-connect when my son decided to click the x to close the RP window....sighs. 3 year olds. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Dec 26 19:43:33 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon Branford) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:43:33 +0100 Subject: Stephen Fry's version Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7827 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 20:50:13 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:50:13 -0000 Subject: Stephen's version In-Reply-To: <010a01c06f7f$323f1aa0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <92b0a5+3fi9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7828 Dee wrote- "It was a pleasant airing, as well--except for having to re-connect when my son decided to click the x to close the RP window....sighs. 3 year olds." Well my computer decided to disconnect at my favourite part. (When Hermione kill the Devil's snare..."THERE'S NO WOOD!") Argh! Anyway I really enjoyed it, as much as, if not more than the Jim Dale's recording. And now Desert Island Discs is on...YEAH If only I could finally take off my pyjamas and do something!!! Scott From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Dec 26 20:50:36 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:50:36 -0000 Subject: L&J's jobs Message-ID: <92b0as+cf9b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7829 Just a little speculation, would the Department of Magical Intelligence be known as MI9 and three quarters? Pippin ps Hi Keith, welcome to the list! From vderark at bccs.org Tue Dec 26 21:03:17 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:03:17 -0000 Subject: Every Flavor Beans In-Reply-To: <200012261707.eBQH7kU04057@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <92b12l+mcp6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7830 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== > >Hello, i hope everyone is having happy holidays and is keeping up with HP > >news.... Has anyone tried the Everyflavor Betts Beans? > > Yeah, Santa was good to me. But I got a horseradish flavored one this morning > ("hmm, maybe I'll try this nice coconut...") > > Kathy Haven't encountered horseradish, although my son has. It's the sardine ones that really linger, in my experience. The pepper ones can be a bit strong too, but they don't stick around as long as sardine, if you know what I mean. Haven't had a booger one yet, either. Not sure I'll dare. I actually liked the grass one. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 21:21:30 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:21:30 -0000 Subject: No HP Merchandise for Christmas... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92b24q+7k1l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7831 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! Hi Voicelady and all: I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and others had very Harry Christmases, though. Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. Piece... by... piece! Singing the theme from the new Charlie's Angels movie, "Independent Women", Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 21:37:41 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:37:41 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions In-Reply-To: <92aq6d+s8f8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92b335+3kpi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7832 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > IIRC, rave's fic Bryter Layter, she has James and Lily having an > entirely Muggle-style wedding (which, on the theory of the bride's > parents paying for the wedding, makes sense -- and Hermione is also > Muggle-born) and then having an entirely Wizard-traditional naming > ceremony for Harry to make up for it. In which the officiant is a > "druid". That's all I needed for the traditions... thanks! You're the fifth person to recommend this fic... I've been on a MWPP diet as of late (the genre's been overrun with new and overeager writers over the past few months), but I think it's time to binge. I only really needed two scenes for flashbacks. The first is a pre- wedding scene, which I drafted yesterday while chatting with Grandma, a feat I'm proud of. The other is a reception scene... which I haven't written and which I don't want to mess up. While I've heard plenty of Beatles songs (I haven't been living under a rock), I have no idea what REM or Jimi Hendrix sound like... I know, I know. This from a woman who owns almost 300 CDs and has inherited almost 1000 LPs from her parents. Shame, isn't it? Now, if it was up to me I'd toss a wizarding version of Nas, DMX, and Jay-Z into the reception and have Brian McKnight or Christina Aguilera sing. But I'm trying to keep this as authentic as possible... the Weird Sisters/Celestina Warbeck sound like rock or heavy metal. Help, please... and while you're helping, send me audio links 'cause I have absolutely no idea what this music sounds like. Finally--I know that in this area, at lots of Middle Eastern and some African-American weddings, it is the custom to pin money to the bride's dress at the reception. Is this unique to us, or is it done elsewhere? Thanks again! Ebony From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 21:44:51 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:44:51 -0000 Subject: Dale vs Fry Message-ID: <92b3gj+9tl2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7833 Ok, I've just heard Stephen Fry's version of Harry Potter for the first time and I have to say it's not even close, Jim Dale is better, much better, a thousand times better. Dale sounds like a gifted actor who can give each character his own unique voice, Fry sounds like a text to speech computer program. From morine10 at aol.com Tue Dec 26 21:50:26 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:50:26 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Stephen's version Message-ID: <15.da848bf.277a6ca2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7834 In a message dated 12/26/00 4:04:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes: > Well my computer decided to disconnect at my favourite part. (When > Hermione kill the Devil's snare..."THERE'S NO WOOD!") Argh! > That's awful! For once I had no connection problems today! > Anyway I really enjoyed it, as much as, if not more than the Jim > Dale's recording. > I still haven't heard Dale's. I am treating myself to an early birthday present tomorrow and they will probably be it. > And now Desert Island Discs is on...YEAH > If only I could finally take off my pyjamas and do something!!! > Glad to see I'm not the only one still not dressed today! -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Dec 26 22:06:51 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (snuffles ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:06:51 -0000 Subject: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <200012261023.AA141165132@wintersmoon.com> Message-ID: <92b4pr+ggib@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7835 TYK () storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "amy" wrote: > Sorry - it's from watching WAY too much Due South...it > means "Thank you Kindly" - it goes along with all those other > abbreviations...BTW, LOL, IMHO, etc (can we say I've spent WAY too > much time on IM (that's AOL's Instant Messenger)) > > Amy > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: Snuffles MacGoo > Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:42:52 +1100 > > > >"TYK "- huh? Can you spell out (I thought I was keeping up!) > > >storm< > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via wintersmoon.com WebMail From morine10 at aol.com Tue Dec 26 22:08:33 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:08:33 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions Message-ID: <6f.efd3804.277a70e1@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7836 In a message dated 12/26/00 4:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, ebonyink at hotmail.com writes: > Finally--I know that in this area, at lots of Middle Eastern and some > African-American weddings, it is the custom to pin money to the > bride's dress at the reception. Is this unique to us, or is it done > elsewhere? > The dollar dance sounds along the same lines. I think that traditionally it was just with the bride. The male guests would pay the bride a dollar to dance with her. But lately I've been to some weddings where it's both the bride and groom. (Equal opportunity) In my husband's small hometown in PA there is an added twist. When the men (or women if the groom is taking part) are finished their spin with the bride they receive a shot of whiskey given out by the best man. Because my husband's hometown is highly concentrated with people of Irish and Polish decent, I want to believe that it's a custom brought over by immigrants from one of those countries. But, more than likely it just reflects on the drinking habits of the small town that's claim to fame is the country's oldest brewery. ; ) -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 22:09:05 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:09:05 -0000 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92b4u1+rons@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7837 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > As for my theory.... > I could be totally off-base but from what I've observed since joining this > group it seems those that are H/H-ers are much more vocal (about everything, > not just their ship preference). This to me is a Hermione trait. She > participates at every opportunity and she always has an answer or comment. > Whereas, the R/H-ers seem to remain quiet until something really strikes them > (and then you can't get them to shut up ). This is more Ron's style. > > I feel that I relate more to the character of Ron than Hermione. While I do > love her, aside from doing well in school I am nothing like Hermione. I have > much more in common with the wisecracking, laid-back, slightly insecure, > adorable , Ron. > > Do the other (what are we up to, three or four?) R/H-ers feel they relate > more to Ron? Do the H/H-ers relate to Hermione? > > Just wondering, > -Mo > Mo, That's really an interesting theory, and in my case it pans out completely. I have much more of a Ron-type personality. I never had the kind of assertive thing that Hermione does. And as a kid I never much felt the need to participate until and unless something grabbed me (as my unadulterated enthusiasm for Ron and the Weasleys in general grabs me). Which I guess is why lately it seems I can't shut up to save my life. Ron's perspective in the books is the one that I identify with most. Or if not Ron, Ginny or Neville even before Harry *or* Hermione. I can't identify too much with Harry, as I've never been a hero, nor have I had the kind of scrutiny or expectations that Harry endures. And Hermione is the kind of girl that I always envied just a little bit. Best friends with the heros, super-smart and capable of calling on her knowlege in a crisis, and on top of everything, able to clean-up and be beautiful and elegant. I just can't identify with her. She's almost too perfect. Can't wait to see how this theory works out for everyone else. Peace, kimberly From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Tue Dec 26 22:12:42 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:12:42 -0500 Subject: Merchandise for Christmas... References: <92b24q+7k1l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004401c06f89$01b4c240$4676d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7838 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebony " > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by > the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because > they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, > my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! > > Hi Voicelady and all: > > I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for > Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate > set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was > practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and > others had very Harry Christmases, though. > > Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird > passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the > other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of > course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. > That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. > Piece... by... piece! I'm sorry to hear about your serious gift misfortunes Ebony and Jeralyn.... I, on the other hand, didn't get anything that wasn't Harry Potter...well, I did get one thing for my husband that I shared that wasn't HP, but I'm not telling you guys about it! Let's see I got: GoF and PoA on tape (my first opportunity to hear the books on tape) HP Trivia Game Mystery at Hogwarts Game Set of 3 Journals (in which my first draft of ASA will now be written rather than the skanky spiral notebooks I've been using) HP Stationary set The puzzle with Harry and Hagrid going to Harry's Gringotts Vault. Then I got my 7yo A Gringotts Bank (gotta try to get him to save) A Hogwarts Journal that guides you to recording various memories So it was a very Harry Christmas for me, and given I had gotten myself almost no HP merchandise before this I feel like I'm catching up. YAY! BTW I enjoyed the Mystery at Hogwarts game. Brian and I played it this morning...Harry administered a sleeping potion in the Herbology classroom! carole From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 22:22:58 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:22:58 -0000 Subject: The Kiss In-Reply-To: <924vep+vjg6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92b5o2+526n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7839 Jim, Thanks for the advice and comments! I'm trying to stay out of the fanfic for now (both reading and writing), but it's getting harder and harder. I don't have the guts to try to tinker with JK's wonderful work at this point, although if she kills off or turns bad any of my beloved favorites, I'll have to write myself alternate endings just so I can sleep at night. I don't know if I could cope. But thanks for the encouragement all the same. I hope in the end we all get what we want, which at least on my part is simply for everyone to end up as close to happy ever after as possible. kimberly, who still holds out hope for happy ever after in real life too. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > Kimberly: "However if it is Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, > everyone's happy. Harry gets not only a girl who adores him (and I'm > hoping for some proof in the future that she's worthy of him as well, > since she's not very fleshed-out yet), he also gets the family he's > always lacked, and who have specifically shown him the only familial > love he's ever had." > > My feelings exactly about Ginny and Harry; she's likely to be as loyal > and loving as her mother is, and Harry's going to need it. I hope Ron > and Hermione are happy, but I can't see them together, even though JKR > is hitting us over the head with it. Read Ebony Elizabeth's excellent > fic, which is taking a look at R/H gone sour. I think marrying into > the loving Weasley family would be very good for Harry. > > Kimberley:"If Harry and Hermione were to end up together, Ron would be > on the outside of the threesome and it would ruin the great balance of > the friendships the three of them have. With Ron and Hermione > together, there would not be this lopsidedness, if only because Harry > is the protagonist, and thus not likely to be marginalized. Plus > Harry and Hermione together, as a muggle-born and a muggle-raised, > would be on the fringes of the wizarding world in regards to culture > and tradition." > > An additional point I hadn't thought of. There must be a schism in > wizarding society that leads to a lot of misunderstanding: some > wizards, like the Weasleys, are completely lost in the Muggle world, > while others, like Harry and Hermione, can move in both. This could > create real problems in wizard society, and in marriage too. > > Kimberley:"I'm hoping that if this isn't the way it goes, that nobody > will be paired up when the series ends." > > Me too, but don't be surprised if Harry isn't paired up. He's likely > to be the Hero, the "man alone", so taken up by his quest and his > ordeal he hasn't got anything left for another person. In other > words, like Frodo. I hope not for his sake. > > Don't just dream, write. We all like new fic by people with ideas. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 22:22:43 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:22:43 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions In-Reply-To: <6f.efd3804.277a70e1@aol.com> Message-ID: <92b5nj+f8i3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7840 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/26/00 4:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ebonyink at h... writes: > > > > Finally--I know that in this area, at lots of Middle Eastern and some African-American weddings, it is the custom to pin money to the > > bride's dress at the reception. Is this unique to us, or is it done elsewhere? > > > > The dollar dance sounds along the same lines. I think that traditionally it was just with the bride... AAH! That's *exactly* what it's called! The Dollar Dance! Thanks so much, Mo... I've been hanging around online to get verification for this, b/c otherwise I would have had to take the long route around the plotline I need to hit here. But if it's pretty widespread... (falls off chair laughing at the ideas flipping through her head) Of course, we do have a huge Polish immigrant population ("Polish Wedding" was shot in Hamtramck, an almost entirely Polish enclave of the city), so that might account for this. I've never seen it done in the South at all. Two more questions: 1) Has anyone ever seen it done in England? and 2) Is this restricted to the working and middle classes? I can't imagine old money doing this at their weddings... ;) --Ebony (who is not going anywhere near a mall today) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Dec 26 23:29:12 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:29:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... References: <92b24q+7k1l@eGroups.com> <004401c06f89$01b4c240$4676d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <008201c06f93$a964b900$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7841 I got the Nimbus ornament. :) At least I got that much....smiles. I can get myself the rest, perhaps at better prices than they were offering at the escalated prices right before Christmas! :) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Carole Estes To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 4:12 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebony " > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by > the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because > they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, > my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! > > Hi Voicelady and all: > > I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for > Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate > set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was > practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and > others had very Harry Christmases, though. > > Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird > passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the > other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of > course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. > That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. > Piece... by... piece! I'm sorry to hear about your serious gift misfortunes Ebony and Jeralyn.... I, on the other hand, didn't get anything that wasn't Harry Potter...well, I did get one thing for my husband that I shared that wasn't HP, but I'm not telling you guys about it! Let's see I got: GoF and PoA on tape (my first opportunity to hear the books on tape) HP Trivia Game Mystery at Hogwarts Game Set of 3 Journals (in which my first draft of ASA will now be written rather than the skanky spiral notebooks I've been using) HP Stationary set The puzzle with Harry and Hagrid going to Harry's Gringotts Vault. Then I got my 7yo A Gringotts Bank (gotta try to get him to save) A Hogwarts Journal that guides you to recording various memories So it was a very Harry Christmas for me, and given I had gotten myself almost no HP merchandise before this I feel like I'm catching up. YAY! BTW I enjoyed the Mystery at Hogwarts game. Brian and I played it this morning...Harry administered a sleeping potion in the Herbology classroom! carole eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Tue Dec 26 22:40:07 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:40:07 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions Message-ID: <91.4bac257.277a7847@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7842 In a message dated 12/26/00 5:23:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, ebonyink at hotmail.com writes: > Is this restricted to the working and middle classes? I can't > imagine old money doing this at their weddings... ;) > It really seems like a working/middle class type thing to me. I'm with you in that I can't see old money begging for money like that! : ) And one other point...I've never, ever seen it at a Protestant wedding. Only at Catholic (and a few Orthodox) weddings. But that's just been my experience. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 22:41:35 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:41:35 -0000 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: <92b4u1+rons@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92b6qv+kcn7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7843 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > That's really an interesting theory, and in my case it pans out completely. I have much more of a Ron-type personality. I never had the kind of assertive thing that Hermione does. And as a kid I never > much felt the need to participate until and unless something grabbed me (as my unadulterated enthusiasm for Ron and the Weasleys in general grabs me). But can we attribute Ron's characteristics to all the Weasleys, Kim? I'm not sure that we can... I see a family where each individual has their own personality. I also think that a lot of their behavior can be attributed to conventional birth-order wisdom. > I can't identify too much with Harry, as I've never been a hero, nor have I had the kind of scrutiny or expectations that Harry endures. Can you identify with a younger Harry, perhaps? Feeling all alone... desperately wanting to fit in and be liked... wanting friends and fun? Also, the weight of the world is on Harry's shoulders, and he feels it. Upon first reading GoF, I felt (among other things) very sorry for Harry. Here's this kid who wants desperately to be a normal 14 year old... a kid who has never had a real childhood, and as he's moving into manhood despite his troubles, a kid who most likely will *never* have a real childhood. > And Hermione is the kind of girl that I always envied just a little > bit. Best friends with the heros, super-smart and capable of calling on her knowledge in a crisis, and on top of everything, able to clean-up and be beautiful and elegant. I just can't identify with > her. She's almost too perfect. Hermione was definitely my "entrance point" into the books, and I think most women (and some men) in the H/H camp would agree. I don't think she's perfect, though. I think you've given a very accurate outside view of Hermione... but I rather think she'd laugh at most of the above. Hair that's less than ideal, oversized teeth, being thought of as an insufferable know-it-all and having no visible close female friendships is no picnic. When you're a kid that others always speak of in superlatives, you'd give just about anything to be "normal". At least, that's my take on things. BTW, while we're revealing our deepest feelings, I would have given anything to be a Ron growing up. How's that for self-disclosure? ;) --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Dec 26 22:47:32 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:47:32 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions In-Reply-To: <91.4bac257.277a7847@aol.com> Message-ID: <92b764+2i39@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7844 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/26/00 5:23:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ebonyink at h... writes: > > > > Is this restricted to the working and middle classes? I can't > > imagine old money doing this at their weddings... ;) > > > > It really seems like a working/middle class type thing to me. I'm with you > in that I can't see old money begging for money like that! : ) And one > other point...I've never, ever seen it at a Protestant wedding. Only at > Catholic (and a few Orthodox) weddings. But that's just been my experience. > -Mo Oh, darn it. Good point. My family's Protestant, and we don't do it. And the Catholic/Orthodox observation seems pretty accurate. I just can't see that being done at "Four Weddings and a Funeral", etc. That won't work, then. The Grangers seem very dignified from the few glimpses we've had of them in canon. Very "old money" in their traditions. And the custom doesn't seem very British to me. It would have been perfect, though... oh, heck, I may just invent some excuse and throw it in anyway. Thanks everyone for bearing with me! --Ebony From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Dec 26 23:08:15 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:08:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions References: <92b5nj+f8i3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4924DF.A4C24EE9@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7845 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > AAH! That's *exactly* what it's called! The Dollar Dance! Thanks > so much, Mo... I've never seen it done in the South at all. It's prevalent with the Hispanic culture here in Texas. But, like Mo, I would say it tends to be a Catholic thing from what I've observed. I don't see it as a likely custom in England myself, but I'm no expert! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Dec 26 23:46:25 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 01:46:25 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 Message-ID: <004201c06f96$10c07600$4aac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7846 >In the delightful issue of who dies I have nothing to offer but my gut feelings. >First of all, I disagree with anyone who thinks that one of the major characters (Harry, >Hermione, Ron) will die. I will bet anybody my last knut that the end of book 7 will find >them alive and well (after M. Pomfrey regrows several of their organs, obviously). I tend to agree with that. Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that she writed for children, Okay, maybe more adults read it than children, but as she often says, and as I heard her say in the interview with her I watched yersterday, seh exxentially still aims this for children reading, and so when she DOES kill, it won't be dramaticlly. So, no matter how many death eaters die - she will not go popping off "Good " carachters one by one. Whether you prefer Ron or Harry to "win" Hermione, or if they even go their own seperate ways (because, that's still AN option in the end,isn't it) there's no chance she's gonna kill the essential "Good". >I also quite firmly believe that these will not die either - Dumbledore (if he dies, it >will be at the end of book 7 only), Actually, that guess makes my previous assersion a little unsound if I agree with it. All along book 4 I though I saw signs of Dubledore's death (not in book 4 ).It's pretry obvious, Harry mentiones how old Dunmbeldore's looking infinite number of times...;-) So I do have a feeling he will either die naturally, or die heroiclly, but in a stage in which he knows he's not far from death any way., Not because he's not brave, but because he is too "Good" to die. I'd even started to imagine what the school would look like with a new principal (someone new, not Mcgonagall for some reason I don't know), and that Harry would have no one to turn to. But I am really at a loss about Dumbledore. On one hand, getting rid of him WILL make a change, because as it is now, all the books end like a murder mystery, the detective uncoveres everything and solves the mystery - that's Dumbldore, On the other hand - you just wouldn't feel safe. not just harry - but the reader as well, who always knows that whatever happens, Dumbledore will make all right at the end... >These are the possible deaths (I feel like some kind of Trelawney now): Bill or Charley >Weasley, Crookshanks, either Lupin OR Sirius, a not very central teacher (Sprout, Flitwick . No. Sirius can't die. specially not if harry dies. My bet is on Lupin, who by all accounts is a VERY noble and good person, brave, intelligent , etc. We REALLY like him, right? Almost like serious or just as much as Sirius. However, he is not serious, so he is a much better candidate to kill. I suppose. However, I think I personally like him just as much as sirius. So I really wouldn't want him killed. > Cho (I don't really think she'll die, though), Oh, I hope she does. :-) Sorry. not that I'm a H/H advocate. If I had to choose it'd be Ron, but I don';t know who's more likely, if any of them. The point is, this Harry Cho thing is silly, I never liked it. oh, but if she dies, harry'll have to express emition and be sad. hm.. I thnk I still prefer that she DID die... :-) >Sorry about this, but I realized that in my haste I forgot my prime candidate for heroic >death - Dobby. Winkey, of course, is a gonner too. > Why davka Dobby? Maya From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 00:14:05 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 00:14:05 -0000 Subject: R/H vs.H/H-Theory (wasFanfic Ships) In-Reply-To: <92b6qv+kcn7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92bc8d+dlp4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7847 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > But can we attribute Ron's characteristics to all the Weasleys, Kim? > I'm not sure that we can... I see a family where each individual has > their own personality. I also think that a lot of their behavior can > be attributed to conventional birth-order wisdom. Ebony, I wasn't meaning to attribute Ron's traits to anyone, just neelessly tacking on the fact that I love the rest of the Weasley family as well. Sorry for the confusion. But you bring up another reason I relate to Ron. Birth-order wise, I'm right up Ron's alley. And my big sister was the pretty, talented, graceful one. But I grew out of the living in the shadow thing, I'm sure Ron will too. > > > I can't identify too much with Harry, as I've never been a hero, > nor have I had the kind of scrutiny or expectations that Harry > endures. > > Can you identify with a younger Harry, perhaps? Feeling all alone... > desperately wanting to fit in and be liked... wanting friends and > fun? Also, the weight of the world is on Harry's shoulders, and he > feels it. Upon first reading GoF, I felt (among other things) very > sorry for Harry. Here's this kid who wants desperately to be a > normal 14 year old... a kid who has never had a real childhood, and > as he's moving into manhood despite his troubles, a kid who most > likely will *never* have a real childhood. But that's precisely what I mean. Of course I feel for Harry - I love him to pieces and want to scoop him up and hug him like Molly Weasley did - he's a wonderfully strong, courageous child. But I've never had the weight of the world on my shoulders. I had a reasonably normal childhood with much more ordinary kinds of problems. So I relate more to Ron than to Harry. I don't mean I don't like Harry, or sympathize with him - just that I don't have a frame of reference from which to understand his perspective quite like I do with Ron. > > > And Hermione is the kind of girl that I always envied just a little > > bit. Best friends with the heros, super-smart and capable of > calling on her knowledge in a crisis, and on top of everything, able > to clean-up and be beautiful and elegant. I just can't identify with > > her. She's almost too perfect. > > Hermione was definitely my "entrance point" into the books, and I > think most women (and some men) in the H/H camp would agree. I don't > think she's perfect, though. I think you've given a very accurate > outside view of Hermione... but I rather think she'd laugh at most of > the above. Hair that's less than ideal, oversized teeth, being > thought of as an insufferable know-it-all and having no visible close > female friendships is no picnic. When you're a kid that others > always speak of in superlatives, you'd give just about anything to > be "normal". At least, that's my take on things. I do see what you mean - I did relate to her more in the first and second book, when she seemed more like an awkward, smart, well-meaning girl with poor social skills. But that's not who she is anymore. At 14 she's already gotten rid of the big teeth and can control the hair if she so chooses. Maybe she doesn't have tons of female friends (maybe they're intimidated by her), but she does seem to be opening up to Ginny to some extent by the Yule Ball. As for the know-it-all thing, she could easily downplay that, but I don't think she should - she's very bright and there's no reason why she should have to hide that. To me that's not a negative at all. So I don't relate to Hermione as much because (deepest feelings, anyone?) I'm not quite on her level - she's more together at 14 than I am at 30. I'm afraid I'm on the defensive here because I feel like you've gotten the impression that I was saying I didn't like Hermione and Harry. Please let me assure you that none of what I was saying was meant to say that I didn't like them, just that perspective-wise I can relate easier to someone like Ron. My attachment to Ron and the rest of the Weasleys aside, the book is about Harry, and I wouldn't be reading if I didn't love him to death. Honest! In fact the reason I take the Ron and Hermione/ Harry and Ginny position is because I like them all and don't want anyone to be left out. I still think it works out well for everyone involved. I hope I made sense, kimberly > > BTW, while we're revealing our deepest feelings, I would have given > anything to be a Ron growing up. How's that for self-disclosure? ;) > > --Ebony From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 27 00:02:21 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:02:21 -0600 Subject: Shippers, Happy Endings & Related Topics Message-ID: <3A49318D.6C32A9A3@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7848 Hi all -- I'm catching up on the weekend's mail slowly but surely. For Mo's theory -- yes, this H/H shipper relates very strongly to Hermione. I was never as outgoing, extroverted & assertive as Hermione but I was Hermione on the inside, that's for sure. For Kathy -- the first boy who broke my heart was a blue-eyed redhead, so maybe you have something there. Maybe that's the *real* underlying reason why I lean H/H. :--) Ebony wrote: > I rather think the number of R/H fans is growing as more finish up > GoF, and we as humans like to be "right". > Hmmm ..... I'm not so sure that even if R & H date in Book 5 that it can be assumed that they are "right" & the H/H contingent is "wrong." We won't know anything at all until the series is over ... and maybe not even then, eh? Personally, I hope it's left ambiguous at the end ("Will Hermione get back together with Ron (they had a spat & split up in Book 6)?" "Will Hermione instead declare her true love for Harry?" "Will Harry finally see Ginny as a woman?") -- then all the shippers can happily create fanfic to suit their preference for eternity! Cassie wrote: > Ginny remains woefully undeveloped and uninteresting, which is probably why I just don't see her for > Harry. And I'm not in love with the argument that Harry should end > up with Ginny so he'd be part of a big happy family, because that > pretty much ignores what Ginny (whiney and undeveloped though she may > be) needs. It smacks of the "consolation prize argument" that a lot > of people use in saying that Ron should wind up with > Hermione "because Harry has everything else, fame, glory, Quidditch > skills, so Ron should get SOMETHING" -- it ignores what would be good > for Hermione or what she might want and by extension makes Ron sound > like a loser. > I'm with Cassie on this one (as she well knows). In the case of R/H, I think the fact that Ron's interest is so over-the-top, you'd have to be really thick to miss it -- people *assume* that Hermione is likewise interested. When I read the books, I think it's much clearer that Hermione has her cap set on Harry, not Ron. And, like Cassie, I hate the "consolation prize" arguments. > I'm sure this has been said before, but I just don't see where Harry > winding up with Hermione makes his relationship with the Weasleys > awkward. Mrs. Weasley adores him *and* she adores Hermione, and the > only time we've ever seen her react negatively to Hermione is when > she thought that Hermione was Harry's girlfriend and wasn't treating > him right! My impression is that she would have been perfectly > delighted if Hermione and Harry had been going out, and only reacted > negatively because she was afraid Hermione was doing him wrong (for > lack of a better phrase.) I can't see Mrs. Weasley turning Harry and > Hermione away simply because Hermione didn't end up marrying Ron (who > might not care at that point anyway), and if she did, then I'd be > pretty disappointed in her. > Bravo! I think that's an excellent point. Agreed -- Molly wasn't upset because Hermione had chosen Harry over her son Ron -- she was upset because she thought Hermione wasn't treating Harry properly. > Of course if I had my druthers Draco would reform himself and *he'd* end up with > Hermione, but I know that will never happen. (Runs away from Penny, > who is looking threatening.) > LOL! Nope -- I'd *far* rather see Hermione end up with Draco than with Ron. Cassie's reformed Draco that is. :--) Susan wrote: > After Ron pitches a jealous fit (indicating her interest), she > suggests that he ask her out first next time. They become oddly > formal with each other; JKR says something is going on between them. > It seems fairly conclusive to me, and I continue to be mystified that > there is all this hoopla about it. > Maybe it's just me -- but it seems entirely *too* obvious & pat to me. Besides, my sister & I had a fight earlier in the year & were "oddly formal" with each other for several weeks thereafter. I don't think that's at all an argument in support of Hermione sharing romantic feelings for Ron. In my mind, all the R/H evidence is just mainly evidence of Ron's obvious crush -- I have yet to see any points made that suggest clearly that Hermione has any interest in return. There are certainly plenty of people who would agree that it sure seems that Hermione's cap is set on her other best friend! :--) HAPPY ENDINGS -- Kimberly, Kelley & others have posited the idea that JKR will go for a neat & tidy ending, with everything all tied up in a bow & everyone blissfully happy. I'm a die-hard romantic -- really I am. But, I just don't see this "everyone is happy & paired off perfectly to make one big happy family" theory squaring very well with JKR's stated pronouncements that the series will get darker as it progresses. I agree that Cedric's death was a bit of a .... what's the word I'm looking for ... "set-up"? The pre-release interviews sort of gave us all the impression that someone *important* would die. Not that many of us didn't care about Cedric to some degree by the end of the book, but he wasn't an important character at *all* prior to GoF. But, I really do believe that there will be deaths that will hit us all much more heavily in the next 3 books. The tone & where she's headed with this series according to her interviews just doesn't jive with the "everyone lives & ends up happy ever after" ending that some are envisioning. IMO anyway. I do *not* subscribe to the "Harry will die at the end of Book 7" school of thought, but I do think he'll be war-weary & battle-scarred at the end (I love Dadgrid's fanfic along those lines -- "The Granger Interview"). Ron & Hermione? Well .... perhaps it is because *she* is my favorite character but I do have a hard time believing that JKR will kill Hermione off. If she did, as Lori noted to me once, you'd have 2 male main characters left, which you just don't see much. Of the Trio, I see Ron as the most likely to die. But, I'm not convinced that he will die by any means. The other main characters are fair game in my mind. Dumbledore seems an obvious choice -- the mentor of our hero will die by ... probably Book 6 is my prediction. Sirius or Lupin seems a prime target. I hate the thought but Sirius' death would have a far greater affect on Harry than the death of Lupin. Because she's said Hagrid is one of her top favorite characters, he might very well be the "death that half-crucifies JKR to write about" as she said in an interview awhile back. But, a happy ending with most all the good guys alive & a festive Christmas at the Burrow with Mr. & Mrs. Harry Potter & Mr. and Mrs. Ron Weasley? Sorry -- I just don't buy it. As I sit here composing this opus, Maya wrote: > Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that she writed for children, Okay, maybe more adults read it than children, but > as she often says, and as I heard her say in the interview with her I > watched yersterday, seh exxentially still aims this for children reading, > and so when she DOES kill, it won't be dramaticlly. So, no matter how many > death eaters die - she will not go popping off "Good " carachters one by > one. > I'd be very interested in hearing more about this particular interview Maya, since it contradicts virtually everything else I've ever heard her say on the subject. She's always maintained that she has no target audience, never intended to write for children & intends to stick fast to her pledge to not tone down the books for the younger readers (i.e., she's got a story to tell & she's planning to tell it regardless of how many 8 yr old readers she has). I maintain that we cannot assume that a "childrens'" series will end happily ever after. I think JKR is writing fantasy but not fairy tales. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 01:23:48 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:23:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 (Dee Note: OT) References: <004201c06f96$10c07600$4aac003e@default> Message-ID: <006401c06fa3$ac2da9c0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 7849 Maya, I am not certain what you have embedded in your message (see about for info about the original subject), but it asked me to download a "Unicode Hebrew translator" to view your message, something I am not familiar with. Does anyone else on the list know what this is, or why I gave me that message? Thanks! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maya Crabtree" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 > > >In the delightful issue of who dies I have nothing to offer but my gut > feelings. > >First of all, I disagree with anyone who thinks that one of the major > characters (Harry, > >Hermione, Ron) will die. I will bet anybody my last knut that the end of > book 7 will find > >them alive and well (after M. Pomfrey regrows several of their organs, > obviously). > > > I tend to agree with that. Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that > she writed for children, Okay, maybe more adults read it than children, but > as she often says, and as I heard her say in the interview with her I > watched yersterday, seh exxentially still aims this for children reading, > and so when she DOES kill, it won't be dramaticlly. So, no matter how many > death eaters die - she will not go popping off "Good " carachters one by > one. Whether you prefer Ron or Harry to "win" Hermione, or if they even go > their own seperate ways (because, that's still AN option in the end,isn't > it) there's no chance she's gonna kill the essential "Good". > > > >I also quite firmly believe that these will not die either - Dumbledore (if > he dies, it > >will be at the end of book 7 only), > > Actually, that guess makes my previous assersion a little unsound if I agree > with it. All along book 4 I though I saw signs of Dubledore's death (not in > book 4 ).It's pretry obvious, Harry mentiones how old Dunmbeldore's looking > infinite number of times...;-) So I do have a feeling he will either die > naturally, or die heroiclly, but in a stage in which he knows he's not far > from death any way., Not because he's not brave, but because he is too > "Good" to die. I'd even started to imagine what the school would look like > with a new principal (someone new, not Mcgonagall for some reason I don't > know), and that Harry would have no one to turn to. But I am really at a > loss about Dumbledore. On one hand, getting rid of him WILL make a change, > because as it is now, all the books end like a murder mystery, the detective > uncoveres everything and solves the mystery - that's Dumbldore, On the other > hand - you just wouldn't feel safe. not just harry - but the reader as > well, who always knows that whatever happens, Dumbledore will make all right > at the end... > > >These are the possible deaths (I feel like some kind of Trelawney now): > Bill or Charley > >Weasley, Crookshanks, either Lupin OR Sirius, a not very central teacher > (Sprout, Flitwick . > > No. Sirius can't die. specially not if harry dies. My bet is on Lupin, who > by all accounts is a VERY noble and good person, brave, intelligent , etc. > We REALLY like him, right? Almost like serious or just as much as Sirius. > However, he is not serious, so he is a much better candidate to kill. I > suppose. However, I think I personally like him just as much as sirius. So I > really wouldn't want him killed. > > > Cho (I don't really think she'll die, though), > > Oh, I hope she does. > :-) > Sorry. not that I'm a H/H advocate. If I had to choose it'd be Ron, but I > don';t know who's more likely, if any of them. The point is, this Harry Cho > thing is silly, I never liked it. oh, but if she dies, harry'll have to > express emition and be sad. hm.. I thnk I still prefer that she DID die... > :-) > > >Sorry about this, but I realized that in my haste I forgot my prime > candidate for heroic > >death - Dobby. Winkey, of course, is a gonner too. > > > > Why davka Dobby? > > > Maya > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 27 00:58:24 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:58:24 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shippers, Happy Endings & Related Topics Message-ID: <90.e13c881.277a98b0@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7850 In a message dated 12/26/00 7:22:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: > I maintain that we cannot assume that a "childrens'" series will end > happily ever after. I think JKR is writing fantasy but not fairy tales. > I absolutely agree with you on this. Although I've grown to love most of the characters, I really doubt that when (or if) they survive the series it will be without their own set of 'scars'. -Mo Who just swept the Harry Potter category on tonight's jeopardy preteen tournament and whose husband laughed hysterically as she jumped up and down in front of the TV shouting out the answers.... "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 27 01:14:07 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:14:07 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Snape the double agent In-Reply-To: <000c01c06dba$a1c71f60$e63670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7851 >This has undoubtedly been said already, but if Dumbledore is using Snape as >a double agent against Voldemort, he would surely not want him in the DADA >position. IMO, Snape would find it more difficult to persuade Voldemort >that he was prepared to betray Dumbledore if he was teaching the students >Defence Against The Dark Arts rather than Potions. That said, I'm sure >Snape would like nothing better than to teach DADA and the >students may have >picked up on this without realising why Dumbledore keeps >overlooking him for >the post. Speaking of Severus the double-agent, isn't Voldemort on to him already? I refer to book I, when Snape is threatening Quirrell (with the disembodied Voldemort possessing the back of Quirrell's turban). Nathan From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 27 01:14:10 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:14:10 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Order of the Phoenix In-Reply-To: <927j3o+964a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7852 >I wouldn't say that throwing a hex is dark arts. Its not nice, >maybe, but they do it all the >time, Harry, Ron, everybody. (Its probably analogous in magic >world to a slap in the face or >a punch in the stomach). Remember the combination of hexes Harry, Ron, Hermione, Fred and George threw at Malfoy and friends at the end of GoF? There ya go. Hmm... if I remember correctly, the hodgepodge result on Malfoy had him end up with tendrils on his face. Oooh... Cthuloid references. ^_^ Nathan From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 27 01:14:11 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:14:11 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks In-Reply-To: <01C06F29.5EECE6A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7853 >Dumbledore's is not lonely - he has Snape to keep him warm at night. Aiiiieeieieieieieiieieieieieieieee!!!! Thank you for that wonderful mental image... lessee, where did I put that summoning giant whiffle bat charm.... Nathan From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 01:17:45 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:17:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trelawney's "Predictions" & Harry-Cho Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7854 Okay, if this has been covered, i aplogize. I've been online a lot, as I am home from school and have nothing to do...I was reading the Barnes & Nobles chat when something that JKR said something that hit me. She mentioned that Trelawney's FIRST prediction will be important in coming books. Dumbledore said that the prediction at the end of book 3 was her 2nd prediction... Or was JKR refering to the prediction that the thing that Lavender is dreding will be on October 16th... Or that the grim is after Harry. Well we come to relize that the "grim" that she is seeing in Harry's future is none other than Sirus in Animagi form. So could the bad thing that happens to Lavender on October 16 (she didn't say what year, i belive) have something to do with Harry? Maybe Lavender has a crush on Harry. Oh about Cho... does anyone else think that she might possibly, even on a subconsious level, resent Harry? She might always associate him with Cedrics death. But i am just thinking as a muggle... VOX ET PRAETEREA NIHIL _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From meakerfam at juno.com Wed Dec 27 01:16:05 2000 From: meakerfam at juno.com (Mr and Mrs Meaker) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:16:05 -0600 Subject: FanFiction Message-ID: <20001226.191605.-614217.0.meakerfam@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7855 This is WAY BIG TIME off topic, but I just have to ask what everyone thinks about my very first published fan fiction. It has not THING one to do with Harry Potter, just to warn you. It is about my other faniticism, the old TV series V (if anyone here is old enough to remember -- yikes). I used the character Ham Tyler (played by Michael Ironsides (sigh -- we'll not get me started, OK? ) Here goes nuthin.... http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=153086 Pax, Crys (sending this to mostly Harry Potter lists) If you live, you unschool!!! Phone/Fax # = 877-569-4309 From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 01:56:43 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 01:56:43 -0000 Subject: Shippers, Happy Endings & Related Topics In-Reply-To: <3A49318D.6C32A9A3@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92bi8r+dqmf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7856 Someone wrote: "Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that she writed for children, Okay, maybe more adults read it than children, but as she often says, and as I heard her say in the interview with her I watched yersterday, seh exxentially still aims this for children reading, and so when she DOES kill, it won't be dramaticlly. So, no matter how many death eaters die - she will not go popping off "Good carachters one by one." Penny wrote: "I'd be very interested in hearing more about this particular interview Maya, since it contradicts virtually everything else I've ever heard her say on the subject. She's always maintained that she has no target audience, never intended to write for children & intends to stick fast to her pledge to not tone down the books for the younger readers (i.e., she's got a story to tell & she's planning to tell it regardless of how many 8 yr old readers she has). "I maintain that we cannot assume that a "childrens'" series will end happily ever after. I think JKR is writing fantasy but not fairy tales." I agree with this Penny. I am by no means saying that we shall come to the end of book VII and find all the characters living "Happily Ever After". I do think however that Jo is aware that a lot of her readers are children, including her own daughter. (Notice I didn't say that most or all of her readers were children just a lot.) She HAS to be aware of that so that even if she's not writing for children she's not going to be writing books that are comparable to R- rated movies. The books as someone else wrote won't become Horror Films. If there are numerous deaths it doesn't mean that the story is going to be reduced to a violent bloody massacre. I think this is what Maya was trying to say. Perhaps it wasn't though. I am still undecided as to whether I think Harry will die. All I can say is "We shall see". Then again I have been wondering whether or not Voldemort might die in books V or VI and then...well I could ramble incessantly (if I'm not already) but I think I just let everyone else comment. Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 02:16:00 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 02:16:00 -0000 Subject: Terribly Obscure Question Message-ID: <92bjd0+ffeq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7857 I know this is going to sound horribly obscure but I need to know this for FanFic purposes, and I thought perhaps some of the Brits on the list would know. There is a statue in Trafalgar Square. No, not the monument to Horatio Nelson, but a statue of a tree on a book on a boat, or something to that effect. I could use ANYTHING that anybody knows about it...I actually have a picture of it but I know nothing of it's history or even what it's called. And for all those who raised hands to to beta- thanks a bundle. Christmas slowed me down a bit but I should get it to you tomorrow. BTW, If anyone else want's to Beta e-mail off-list. I will be grateful for all the advice I can get! Scott From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 27 03:01:41 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:01:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tidbits of Snapeness, and Peter's strength References: <3A48F1FF.E4724106@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <001701c06fb1$576b05a0$4ac44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 7858 ----- Original Message ----- From: Firebolt To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 2:31 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tidbits of Snapeness, and Peter's strength Ebony said: Interesting observation. Over the holiday I thought about the significance of Peter's name. The Biblical Peter wasn't on the fringes of things; he was a leader amongst the Twelve... and yet he betrayed Christ. Now, it was Judas who *betrayed* Christ, i.e., who provided otherwise unavailable information to the enemy that they were able to use to destroy Him; Peter, OTOH, merely *denied* Christ, i.e., failed to affirm his belief in Him - although under the circumstances (immediately following Christ's arrest), it has always seemed to me that Peter acted wisely, under the Solomonic principle of "better a living dog than a dead lion" (Ecclesiastes 9:4); if Peter had affirmed his affiliation with Christ in the aftermath of His arrest, he would have merely sacrificed himself in a superfluous martyrdom. When he had the opportunity, Peter was invariably zealous in Christ's defense: it is Peter who Christ admonishes to set aside his sword - "those who live by the sword die by the sword" - when he slices off an earlobe of one of the arresting soldiers. Pettigrew has seemingly more in common with Judas - who died (either via suicide or divine retribution, according to conflicting accounts), we should remember, on Potter's Field - than with his Biblical namesake. Yet JKR does seem to be setting up a storyline in which Pettigrew will eventually redeem himself. And on a meta-narrative level, what's with Peter losing his original name entirely in GoF, and being labeled, by not only Voldemort but by the all-knowing narrator, by his alternate Animagus identity of Wormtail? Perhaps his degradation to permanently animalistic state? - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 03:10:14 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 03:10:14 -0000 Subject: Happy endings/Death? In-Reply-To: <92bi8r+dqmf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92bmim+qkon@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7859 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > I am still undecided as to whether I think Harry will die. All I can > say is "We shall see". Then again I have been wondering whether or > not Voldemort might die in books V or VI and then...well I could > ramble incessantly (if I'm not already) but I think I just let > everyone else comment. Well, I agree that Rowling isn't going to go for horror style graphic violence (notice that Adavra Kadavra is a quick death, not a painful drawn out one). I actually thought she was going to kill off a regular character in book IV. Where did people get the idea that Harry was going to die? This seems a pretty regular one in the HP Character death poll. I personally doubt that he will...Rowling just doesn't seem to be writing that dark, at least so far. Same thing for Hermione and Ron. I think about the darkest thing happening recently in the books is the fate of Neville's parents. As for Voldemort, unless Rowling pulls an "evil behind the evil" plot on us, I don't see him dying until book VII, but he probably will perish in some fashion. The older characters, IMO are probably more likely to get killed off. I don't see Dumbledore dying until VII or the very end of VI at least, because he's too important to the plot and structure of the series. Though I do suspect he will die, because they're always talking about how old he is, and the mentor dies quite frequently too. It would be exceedingly depressing if Rowling did kill off Sirius or Lupin. But there's not really much that makes me suspect she would. As for the faculty, I doubt she'll kill of McGonagall, as she's set up to be Dumbledore's successor. Snape, on the other hand, is possibly acting as a double agent, always a risky job, and is *not* on Voldemort's good books anyway, to put it mildly. The rest of them don't have enough pagetime for me to suspect one way or the other. I actually do hope she tells us more about them, especially the perennially mentioned but never very present professors Sinistra and Vector. Charmian From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 27 03:41:07 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:41:07 +0800 Subject: Professor Sinistra's subject was Happy endings/Death? In-Reply-To: <92bmim+qkon@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7860 >As for the faculty, I doubt she'll kill of McGonagall, as she's set >up to be Dumbledore's successor. Snape, on the other hand, is >possibly acting as a double agent, always a risky job, and is *not* >on Voldemort's good books anyway, to put it mildly. The rest of them >don't have enough pagetime for me to suspect one way or the other. I >actually do hope she tells us more about them, especially the >perennially mentioned but never very present professors Sinistra and >Vector. Which allows me a segue into the question: Why the heck is Astronomy so important as a first year subject? The only magical use I can see is Astronomy as a pre-requisite course for Divination. From duo at dangerous-minds.com Wed Dec 27 03:41:09 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:41:09 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tidbits of Snapeness, and Peter's strength In-Reply-To: <001701c06fb1$576b05a0$4ac44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7861 > Pettigrew has seemingly more in common with Judas - who died >(either via suicide or divine retribution, according to >conflicting accounts), we should remember, on Potter's Field - >than with his Biblical namesake. Yet JKR does seem to be setting >up a storyline in which Pettigrew will eventually redeem himself. Pettigrew owes Harry. I'm not sure though if Voldemort knows about this little, as we call it here, "utang na loob", literally "internal debt", more properly, "debt of gratitude". > And on a meta-narrative level, what's with Peter losing his >original name entirely in GoF, and being labeled, by not only >Voldemort but by the all-knowing narrator, by his alternate >Animagus identity of Wormtail? Perhaps his degradation to >permanently animalistic state? Or a loss of humanity. ^_^ Makes it all the sweeter if it is regained. Nathan From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 03:45:06 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 03:45:06 -0000 Subject: Merchandise for Christmas... In-Reply-To: <008201c06f93$a964b900$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <92bok2+m4ai@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7862 I got a lovely HP bookend (just one, I don't really use bookends, so it makes a cool figurine for my room). I also got a Hermione StoryScope, a light-up pen, and some stickers in my stocking. Today I bought myself the student planner! Umm, folks, I accidentally erased all the votes from my HP merchandise poll, so if you would wander on over to the poll section and vote again, that would be awesome. Hope everyone had a very Harry Christmas! ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rohleder" wrote: > I got the Nimbus ornament. :) > > At least I got that much....smiles. > > I can get myself the rest, perhaps at better prices than they were offering at the escalated prices right before Christmas! :) > ************************************************************ > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > ************************************************************ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carole Estes > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 4:12 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ebony " > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > > > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by > > the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because > > they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, > > my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! > > > > Hi Voicelady and all: > > > > I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for > > Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate > > set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was > > practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and > > others had very Harry Christmases, though. > > > > Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird > > passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the > > other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of > > course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. > > That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. > > Piece... by... piece! > > I'm sorry to hear about your serious gift misfortunes Ebony and Jeralyn.... > > I, on the other hand, didn't get anything that wasn't Harry Potter...well, I > did get one thing for my husband that I shared that wasn't HP, but I'm not > telling you guys about it! > > Let's see I got: > > GoF and PoA on tape (my first opportunity to hear the books on tape) > HP Trivia Game > Mystery at Hogwarts Game > Set of 3 Journals (in which my first draft of ASA will now be written rather > than the skanky spiral notebooks I've been using) > HP Stationary set > The puzzle with Harry and Hagrid going to Harry's Gringotts Vault. > > Then I got my 7yo > A Gringotts Bank (gotta try to get him to save) > A Hogwarts Journal that guides you to recording various memories > > So it was a very Harry Christmas for me, and given I had gotten myself > almost no HP merchandise before this I feel like I'm catching up. > > YAY! BTW I enjoyed the Mystery at Hogwarts game. Brian and I played it > this morning...Harry administered a sleeping potion in the Herbology > classroom! > > carole > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 27 04:04:30 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:04:30 -0600 Subject: HP stuff for Christmas Message-ID: <3A496A4E.F1F76622@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7863 I got a Quidditch mobile! My daughter, 5, picked it out for me when she and my husband went shopping. And I love it. Did anyone else get this? I hadn't seen mention of it. Oh, and a family friend brought me the Quidditch card game, and I've had no time at all to examine it. Not too bad, considering that Mom usually only gets three or four things, counting stuff for the "house" that guests bring and presents from ooky brothers.... --Amanda From kathleen at carr.org Wed Dec 27 03:58:13 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:58:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Every Flavor Beans Message-ID: <200012270416.eBR4GKU05331@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7864 >sardine, if you know what I mean. Haven't had a booger one yet, >either. Not sure I'll dare. I actually liked the grass one. > >Steve Vander Ark I actually had a booger-flavored one about an hour ago and it wasn't terrible (kinda flavorless actually). I liked the grass flavored one too! (And I was just thinking what a freak that would probably make me when I read your message Steve!). Kathy From kathleen at carr.org Wed Dec 27 04:09:56 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:09:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... Message-ID: <200012270428.eBR4S7U06482@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 7865 Ooooooooo, but I had a very Harry Christmas! Aside from the Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans in my stocking, I got: the stationary set the "Hermione the Bookworm" secret box the metal Hogwarts bookmark the Hogwarts sippy-cup thing the wall calendar the day-to-day calendar the picture frame with the Trio on broomsticks the Sorting Hat bookends AND...courtesy of my husband, the most adorable, wonderful man to walk the face of the earth, my very own personal copies of ALL 4 Books on CD (the Jim Dale versions). (Now I can stop hogging the library's copies!) Though I was hoping to get the trivia game (not to sound like Dudley or anything). Hmm, well I do have a birthday coming up..... Kathy From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 04:39:19 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 04:39:19 -0000 Subject: Tidbits of Snapeness, and Peter's strength In-Reply-To: <001701c06fb1$576b05a0$4ac44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <92brpn+n5bu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7866 I wrote: "Interesting observation. Over the holiday I thought about the significance of Peter's name. The Biblical Peter wasn't on the fringes of things; he was a leader amongst the Twelve... and yet he betrayed Christ." To which CMC replied: "Now, it was Judas who *betrayed* Christ, i.e., who provided otherwise unavailable information to the enemy that they were able to use to destroy Him; Peter, OTOH, merely *denied* Christ..." Mea culpa! Thanks for catching my clumsy attempt to reinterpret Holy Writ. ;) --Ebony From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 27 04:49:45 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:49:45 EST Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Snape the double agent Message-ID: <45.3b6143.277acee9@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7867 In a message dated 12/26/00 8:04:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, duo at dangerous-minds.com writes: > Speaking of Severus the double-agent, isn't Voldemort on to him already? I > refer to book I, when Snape is threatening Quirrell (with the disembodied > Voldemort possessing the back of Quirrell's turban). > We don't know all of what Snape said to Quirrell. From what I recall he just asked how far Quirrell had gotten. For all Voldemort knows, Snape was just trying to get to the Stone himself. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lavieboheme19 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 05:35:17 2000 From: lavieboheme19 at yahoo.com (Ellen Glassie) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:35:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... Message-ID: <20001227053517.29062.qmail@web6305.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7868 I got a wonderful HP item for Christmas...my mom knit me a Weasley sweater! It is a sort of reddish-marroon, appropriately ("Every year mum knits us a jumper, and mine's /always/ maroon...") and it has a big purple 'W' on the front of it, for Weasley. I tried to tell my mom that it was only Fred and George (and Percy?) who get letters on their sweaters, but she decided to make a general Weasley sweater instead of a specific one, and thus her choice. She was also under the false impression that Ron was my favorite, so she made the maroon one, with the W, whereas Fred is my favorite. It would've been fun to have a blue and yellow F sweater, although people might begin calling me "Fellen." As it is, I suppose they could call me "Wellen." This is NOT a suggestion! :) Always, Ellen ===== Angelina_Johnson at HarryPotterNetwork.zzn.com "So, Janey, how was school?" "It was okay." "Just okay?" "No, dad, it was spectacular." American Beauty __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From Aprilsong at aol.com Wed Dec 27 06:49:14 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 06:49:14 -0000 Subject: Unique HP Gifts! Message-ID: <92c3da+nqaf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7869 My friends and family think that my Harry obsession is "cute" at my advanced age. Thank goodness! For Christmas, one friend made up an entire set of her version of all the fun candy at Honey Dukes. I got bags of Chocolate Covered Frogs (gummi frogs with the bottoms dipped in white chocolate), Tina's Tangy Taffy (multi-colored homemade taffy wrapped in wax paper), Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans (some of EVERY flavor that Jelly Belly makes), Cauldron Cakes (Ding Dongs), Droobles Best Blowing Gum, (Dubble-Bubble) and a huge bar of Dementor Chocolate. She made labels for everything and drew pictures on them. It was so much fun. I also received, from various people, a Quidditch Card Game, Harry Potter Trivia Board Game, Quidditch Mug, 2 metal bookmarks, 2 paper book marks, a storyscope, A desk calendar, a Harry figurine, Every Flavor Beans (the real ones - sardine...Alas!), and a boxed set of the first four books. One friend actually put together a writing set that included a quill, parchment paper and Dragon's Blood Ink. Did anyone else read that Jelly Belly is adding vomit flavor beans to the next batch? From Aprilsong at aol.com Wed Dec 27 06:57:19 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 06:57:19 -0000 Subject: Wanted! Message-ID: <92c3sf+3rca@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7870 I'm looking for the Hallmark HP ornament. (Harry on a broom.) The stores sold out around here in a few hours. If you ask for it the clerks just laugh hysterically. Anyone have an idea where I can still find one? From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 07:59:02 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 07:59:02 -0000 Subject: Professor Sinistra's subject was Happy endings/Death? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92c7g6+vpo2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7871 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nathan" wrote: > > >As for the faculty, I doubt she'll kill of McGonagall, as she's set > >up to be Dumbledore's successor. Snape, on the other hand, is > >possibly acting as a double agent, always a risky job, and is *not* > >on Voldemort's good books anyway, to put it mildly. The rest of them > >don't have enough pagetime for me to suspect one way or the other. I > >actually do hope she tells us more about them, especially the > >perennially mentioned but never very present professors Sinistra and > >Vector. > > Which allows me a segue into the question: Why the heck is Astronomy so > important as a first year subject? The only magical use I can see is > Astronomy as a pre-requisite course for Divination. Was it a first year subject? I can't quite recall, as it's been awhile since I read the first book. Indeed, from all that stuff that Harry and co. did in Divination class, it doesn't seem like there is much left over for an Astronomy class. Charmian From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 08:02:13 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:02:13 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] L&J's jobs References: <92b0as+cf9b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7872 ----- Original Message ----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com Just a little speculation, would the Department of Magical Intelligence be known as MI9 and three quarters? Pippin Heehee! Its there hilarious posts that keep me on this list. You think the top-agent would be code-named double-u-seven? (W for wizard) thanks, yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Dec 27 09:39:51 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:39:51 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] No HP Merchandise for Christmas... Message-ID: <01C07045.2E975D60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7873 I am *deeply* jealous of the fabulous stuff that everyone got for Christmas. I don't have any living relatives so never score at this time of year. Usually I regard this as a bonus (never have to buy anything either) but I beginning to wonder if I was wrong ..... at least this year storm -----Original Message----- From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 7:22 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] No HP Merchandise for Christmas... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! Hi Voicelady and all: I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and others had very Harry Christmases, though. Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. Piece... by... piece! Singing the theme from the new Charlie's Angels movie, "Independent Women", Ebony To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 10:39:24 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 04:39:24 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7874 I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, that someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes no sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry. I always assumed, that they got married in their early twenties, or even right after they graduated Hogwarts. It would make sense that the wedding would happen, Harry would be born, and that would be about the time things started going really awry, bc i kind of though that they were in their last years of school when Voldemort really gained power. I know this all sounds incredibly muddled, but it is 4:28 in the morning, and i was awoken by a dream in which a man with a human head and a snake body was telling me he would kill me like my silly muggle mother(I have been reading HP on a loop for a few weeks now, i guess this means i need a break) Anyways, I always assumed Sirius and co to be younger than that, more like about 35, which is actually a pretty big difference, and Mrs. Weasley more in her late 40's, which makes sense seeing as how Bill is about 23. One of the main reasons I am so interested in the new books is bc i need this kind of stuff resolved, like Lily and James' pasts. I think that would make for an interesting series, to have JKR pull a George Lucas on us, and go back and write James Potter and the....books. I would read them. And BTW, i really want her to write "Hogwarts, a History" Now that i have thouroughly strayed off of that topic in a long email, since it has been a while, i just wanted to say that i think that Dumbledore doesn't look into the Mirror of the Erised bc he would see himself leading a common, almost Muggle life where he could sit around all day and not read the paper and not worry about anything about having to get out of his lazy-boy to pee. Stephanie Who can not sleep, and is realizing that this is more of a ramble than anything. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 10:59:08 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 04:59:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7875 Stephanie's HP Gifts: HP Trivia Game- Lots of fun, though no one in my family stands a chance ;) Quidditch Board game, though I havent had the oppurtunity to open it yet Hogwarts Sweatshirt Gryffindor and Quidditch Tshirts Hedwig Mug Hagrid and Harry Puzzle Audio CDs(I burned these myself bc i didnt want to spend that much and i made a set for a friend so she would listen on her trips bc she gets motion sick) Firebolt Ornament Every Flavor Beans, all mine were reg flavors thus far :( All the books in french(I get to read them for a grade in my indep study french class...woo hoo) And, IMO, my best gift, The Golden Snitch Keychain (mainly bc it had car keys to a used but still wonderful ford ecplorer attatched to it ;) ) Stephanie Who is NOT spoiled, but whose father has been married like 15 times and mother is remarried so i have a HUGE family.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Dec 27 11:09:22 2000 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:09:22 -0000 Subject: Stephen Fry's version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92cil2+lm0o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7876 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Simon Branford wrote: > I have just finished listening to it and it was fantastic. Also I am now listening to Jo on Desert Island Discs (they are replaying the one from earlier in the year that I managed to miss the first time round!). I have not yet heard the Dale version, but may have to, to compare the two. I liked the Fry version as it is fairly simple and he does not try to go over the top with accents or anything else. He lets the story speak for itself. Hear, hear. I haven't heard the Jim Dale version, but I thought Stephen Fry read the story really well. > > > Keith wrote: "Hi! I'm Keith (some of you might know me from the Paradigm of > Uncertainty and HP FanFiction eGroups as the author of Ginny The > Vampire Slayer), an 18 year old British student." > > Hello goes to Keith and I add that his story is well worth a read. Not least for the fantastic bad vampire that we meet in part 3 (I wonder who that could be!) It's Simon, for anyone who's wondering. From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Dec 27 11:26:22 2000 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:26:22 -0000 Subject: Shippers, Happy Endings & Related Topics In-Reply-To: <3A49318D.6C32A9A3@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92cjku+du4m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7877 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hmmm ..... I'm not so sure that even if R & H date in Book 5 that it can > be assumed that they are "right" & the H/H contingent is "wrong." We > won't know anything at all until the series is over ... and maybe not > even then, eh? Personally, I hope it's left ambiguous at the end ("Will > Hermione get back together with Ron (they had a spat & split up in Book > 6)?" "Will Hermione instead declare her true love for Harry?" "Will > Harry finally see Ginny as a woman?") -- then all the shippers can > happily create fanfic to suit their preference for eternity! I think this is unlikely, at least it won't be done for the reason given. Most readers of the books don't write or read fanfic, so they would be left in the cold. > > When I read the books, I think it's much clearer that > Hermione has her cap set on Harry, not Ron. And, like Cassie, I hate > the "consolation prize" arguments. > I agree that putting people together by default is ungood, but I don't think the books give much indication of Hermione's feelings either way - there may be some hints that she likes Ron (e.g. in the argument after the ball and her irritation over the 'pair of trolls' statement), but she and Harry seem to have a pretty platonic relationship in Book 4 (though I could see what happens in Lori's Paradigm of Uncertainty happening in the future). Mind you, I'd be the first to admit that I am definitely not Mr Relationship Expert, so I could be talking complete dingoes' kidneys. Besides, we all read the books differently. From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Dec 27 11:29:41 2000 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:29:41 -0000 Subject: Snape the double agent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92cjr5+uveh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7878 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nathan" wrote: > >This has undoubtedly been said already, but if Dumbledore is using Snape as > >a double agent against Voldemort, he would surely not want him in the DADA > >position. IMO, Snape would find it more difficult to persuade Voldemort > >that he was prepared to betray Dumbledore if he was teaching the students > >Defence Against The Dark Arts rather than Potions. That said, I'm sure > >Snape would like nothing better than to teach DADA and the > >students may have > >picked up on this without realising why Dumbledore keeps > >overlooking him for > >the post. > > Speaking of Severus the double-agent, isn't Voldemort on to him already? I > refer to book I, when Snape is threatening Quirrell (with the disembodied > Voldemort possessing the back of Quirrell's turban). > > Nathan Precisely! Snape CANNOT act as a double agent post-GoF! Voldemort knows he went over to the good side! Lots of fanfics have Snape doing this, and it really annoys me. When he made his speech in the graveyard, Voldemort said there was one Death Eater who had left him forever, and who would be killed. That must have been Snape (the one too scared to return was Karkaroff). From catlady at wicca.net Wed Dec 27 11:36:54 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:36:54 -0000 Subject: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92ck8m+tekl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7879 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, > that someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. My computation (in msg #4518) that came out that Sirius, Lupin, and Snape turn 43 during the year from Sept 2000 to August 2001. Thus, in GoF in the 1994-95 school year, they were 6 years younger, which is 37, which is pretty close to your assumption. > I know this all sounds incredibly muddled, but it is 4:28 in the > morning, and i was awoken by a dream in which a man with a human > head and a snake body was telling me he would kill me like my > silly muggle mother( Oh, scarey. I hope you had some chocolate! > always assumed (snip) Mrs. Weasley more in her late 40's, which > makes sense seeing as how Bill is about 23. >From msg #4518: "Also, by this timeline, Bill would be 29 and Charlie 27 during GoF. I don't think they seemed quite that old. Perhaps the people who were speculating that wizarding folk's longer life expectancy means they age more slowly all along were kind of right. (snip) perhaps they age like Muggles to age 21 and then age more slowly. How does that affect magic-Muggle mixed marriages? Does the Muggle spouse get to drink anti-aging potion as long as the marriage lasts, and thus live as long as wizarding folk? Or is the slow aging genetically inborn rather than a spell, and thus the Muggle spouse would get old and decrepit while the wizarding spouse is still young and strong.... " Further example of wizards aging more slowly: JKR told us in a chat that Dumbledore is 150 years old(+/- for difference between Now and Book). That would make him 100 (+/-) '50 years ago' in Tom Riddle's School Days. At which time, his hair was long but auburn. Which reminds me, in GoF, Molly Weasley reminisced of 'the gamekeeper before Hagrid, a man named Ogg'. Someone posted the question, if Hagrid became gamekeeper '50 years ago' (in Tom Riddle's School Days) and Molly remembers the gamekeeper before Hagrid, does that mean that she is at least 62 years old (i.e. having been at least a first-year at Hogwarts in the year during which Hagrid was expelled)? At that time, people on the list decided that Hagrid must have been made *Assistant Gamekeeper* when he was expelled at age 13, and become Gamekeeper later, upon Ogg's retirement. However, the new information about the wizard folks lifespan (JKR said 'and McGonagall is a sprightly 70') suggests that Molly Weasley might indeed be at least 62, maybe 70 like McGonagall. From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Dec 27 11:44:05 2000 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:44:05 -0000 Subject: Trelawney's "Predictions" & Harry-Cho In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92ckm5+443l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7880 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > > Okay, if this has been covered, i aplogize. > > Or was JKR refering to the prediction > that the thing that Lavender is dreding will be on October 16th... Or that > the grim is after Harry. Well we come to relize that the "grim" that she is > seeing in Harry's future is none other than Sirus in Animagi form. So could > the bad thing that happens to Lavender on October 16 (she didn't say what > year, i belive) have something to do with Harry? Maybe Lavender has a crush > on Harry. No (well, she might have a crush on Harry for all we know, but that wasn't the bad thing). The bad thing happened that year - she heard her rabbit had died. Though as Hermione said, that prediction wasn't very accurate as Lavender shouldn't really have been dreading that, the rabbit being young. > > Oh about Cho... does anyone else think that she might possibly, even on a > subconsious level, resent Harry? She might always associate him with Cedrics > death. But i am just thinking as a muggle... > Yeah, I agree that she'll have a nagging suspicion that Harry killed him, at least until Voldemort's return is proved conclusively. From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 27 13:04:58 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:04:58 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Merchandise for Christmas References: <3A48E373.A68A410A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <004b01c07005$9e721d40$152e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7881 Oooh, I'm sitting here, drooling with envy. My lil' bro got HP3, but I've got nothing, zip, nada (already have all teh books anyway). I got myself the wall calender (English version), and there is an extra "local" version, but some of the pics are the same and it's much more expensive. And there is no merchandise available here. The only possibility is the journals via Amazon, but they are really expensive for me, so I can just sit here and weep... ;-( Dinah From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 13:14:48 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:14:48 -0000 Subject: Digest Number 367 In-Reply-To: <004201c06f96$10c07600$4aac003e@default> Message-ID: <92cq08+defq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7882 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Maya Crabtree" wrote: > > >Sorry about this, but I realized that in my haste I forgot my prime > candidate for heroic > >death - Dobby. Winkey, of course, is a gonner too. > > > > Why davka Dobby? > BC he has exactly the right marginality to provide a very touching and pathetic death but one that is not too disheartening. Zehoo. Naama From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 27 13:26:51 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:26:51 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Peter's strength (and betrayal) References: <3A48F1FF.E4724106@urbanet.ch> <001701c06fb1$576b05a0$4ac44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <010501c07008$ad04dc00$152e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7883 > Now, it was Judas who *betrayed* Christ, i.e., who provided otherwise unavailable information to the >enemy that they were able to use to destroy Him; Peter, OTOH, merely *denied* Christ, i.e., failed to >affirm his belief in Him - although under the circumstances (immediately following Christ's arrest), it has >always seemed to me that Peter acted wisely, under the Solomonic principle of "better a living dog than a >dead lion" (Ecclesiastes 9:4) Just to bring in an new tidbit of interpretation: I read a very good novel that described the bible story from the Viewpoint of Deborah, and in this Jesus asked, or even told Judas to betray him because this was the only possible way from him to get crucified and save mankind. Somehow this theory, or whatever one might call it, left quite an impression and I keep on wondering about the motives people have for doing things. Funny enough I thought of Peter's denial of Christ only yesterday while thinking how to portray Peter (Pettigrew that is) and didn't come up with a solution yet (Next thing I'll start will be Greek and Roman mythologie, I know much more about those). But the "solution" would be top a problem that I created myself - I just can't take it for granted that PP, after being friends with Sirius and James, being respected by them, would just turn his back on them and work for the enemy. I always have to think of two things. First off, Minerva said she'd been harsh to Peter (Why? Because he was no good at Transfiguration? Couldn't be, right?) and after that Sirius told him that he was always following them around, following around people that were more powerful and more capable. I didn't think he said that only because he had been betrayed, but that this feeling had been there for quite some time, that Peter never was an equal. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 27 13:29:29 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:29:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Professor Sinistra's subject was Happy endings/Death? References: Message-ID: <010f01c07009$0b0a12c0$152e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7884 > Which allows me a segue into the question: Why the heck is Astronomy so > important as a first year subject? The only magical use I can see is > Astronomy as a pre-requisite course for Divination. In esoterical believes, Magic is focusing personal energy, and sometimes it's easier, sometimes it's harder. Some spells work better on a full moon, and so on. I guess it's the same principle here, you have to know your way with the stars beacuse they are relevant to performing magic. BTW, do they have flying classes only in their first year? Dinah From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Dec 27 13:38:03 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:38:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 372 Message-ID: <20001227133803.16221.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7885 --- "Stephanie Becvar" skrev: [snip] > Stephanie's HP Gifts: [lots of HP-stuff snipped] > All the books in french(I get to read them for a grade in my indep > study > french class...woo hoo) [car-keys snipped] I got naught but the Norwegian translation of PoA - my first in Norwegian - I have read all 4 in British English already (On the other hand - I happen to know there is a heraldry-book headed my way, though the mail has been putting obstacles in its way to prevent it from getting here in time for Christmas). I must say that I am not completely happy about the Norwegian translation, though (and it is not helped by the fact that it is quite expensive - USD25, I believe, for standard hardback edition). One thing is that all the charms and spells have been rewritten in some form of Norwegianized pig-latin, but the way he treats Hagrid and Ron... Hagrid apparently seems to have lost all spelling-skills he ever had. Just about every second word he writes is mis-spelled, to the degree that 2nd-graders would be expected to do better. Ron and his brothers (sans Percy) have been treated to such a dialect that one would believe they were the ones with dreadlocks, and not Lee Jordan. Their dialect seems to be the equivalent of an 'ultracool' Eastender. One very bright spot of the translation is Sir Callogan, though, who is quite an improvement on the original. Of some interest is that Fred and George have become Fred and Frank, while Oliver Wood has become Oliver Quist. Fudge ahs become Bloeuf. In general the Norwegian translation seems to be based to a degree on the assumption that Harry Potter is a children's series, even if the tranlator deserves reverence for the trouble he must have gone through creating Norwegian terms for names and words, while attempting to preserve the puns. Unfortunately, a lot of Rowling's silly words seem to have become childishly silly (childish as in big, purple dinosaur) in the Norwegian edition. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Dec 27 13:35:30 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:35:30 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror References: Message-ID: <015a01c07009$e2f382c0$152e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7886 > I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, that > someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes no > sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry Well, I think they are about 37 in GoF. (I just had to fix a date, add or take a few years or so) but I also thought that Lily is about two years younger than James, and had Harry when she was 22. Just my opinion... Dinah From amy at wintersmoon.com Wed Dec 27 15:04:39 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:04:39 -0000 Subject: Snape and the Death Eaters Message-ID: <92d0e7+984e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7887 First let me say that I do not have the books, particularly GoF, in front of me, so I'm doing this all from memory. Please feel free to correct and fill in gaps. I do think that Snape is going to be a double agent for Dumbledore again - although, I have no idea how he's going to pull it off. When they're in the infirmary at the end of GoF, Dumbledore sends Snape off telling him something to the effect of "I'm sorry to make you do this, but it has to be done." At surface glance (I've only read GoF twice) it comes across as Snape going back to Voldermort. And we've heard from Dumbledore multiple times that Snape turned to the "good" side at great personal risk. Dumbledore trusts him for a reason - we just don't know what that reason is yet. There's more to this story than we know. I seem to remember that when Voldermore was "introducing" the Death Eaters - I came up with more missing than just the three. The last three he talked about was 1) one that was at Hogwarts that had already come back to him, 2) one that had been a coward, and 3) one that had betrayed him. Ok...the first one, I was assuming was Barty Crouch, Jr. Voldermort knew he was there and following his orders. The second one...here's where I had a problem. There's two candidates - Karkaroff (who has fled) and Ludovic Bagman. I'm going with Karkaroff - he's still running (but I think Bagman is too). The third one...the one that had betrayed him and will now die for it. We're all assuming it's Snape. But, we still have Bagman floating around out there. We know he was a death eater and we know he turned other Death Eaters into the ministry in order to save himself. Bagman's betrayal isn't as severe as Snapes, but he is still a loose end. (Bagman wasn't in the cemetery, right?) Of course, there were quite a few Death Eaters that Voldermort didn't "introduce". I think Harry makes the comment that he's outnumbered 30 to 1....that would make for 28 DE, not including Voldermort and Wormtail. They only mentioned 9 (I believe). Thoughts? Comments? I'm not sure if you all have discussed this before... Amy From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Dec 27 15:06:05 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:06:05 -0000 Subject: HP Gifts Message-ID: <92d0gt+3s6o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7888 My boxed British editions finally arrived! Yippee!!!! On Xmas day, I got the Hermione under the sorting hat glow in the dark jigsaw puzzle, which was actually fun to do. I put the Slytherin banner together first... Pippin From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Wed Dec 27 15:17:18 2000 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:17:18 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 371 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7889 In a message dated 12/27/00 5:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << Where did people get the idea that Harry was going to die? This seems a pretty regular one in the HP Character death poll >> For me, this comes from the fact that she has remarked twice in chats "Why does everyone assume Harry will not be among the deaths?" Granted, I felt she was saying it in an amused way. And considering that I believe she loves him as much or more (hopefully) than we do, she will surely not let him die.. .. ?! Still, it lingers uneasily in my mind. ~Circe From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 27 15:45:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:45:34 -0600 Subject: Ages? References: Message-ID: <3A4A0E9E.9C49A982@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7890 Hi -- Stephanie Becvar wrote: > I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, > that > someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes > no > sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry. I > always assumed, that they got married in their early twenties, or even > right after they graduated Hogwarts. It would make sense that the > wedding would happen, Harry would be born, Well, I'll climb on my soapbox briefly to state that no matter what you believed as a teenager, babies do not *always* immediately follow marriage, even when the parents desperately want that. I suffered through 4 yrs of infertility to get where I am (6 mths pregnant at last) so .... I tend to get a bit touchy when people make this assumption (right up there with "Oh, you've been married 7 years? 'Bout time you two got around to having kids." Grrrr!). Okay ... anyway ... back to the Potters. Assuming no infertility, it is possible that they had Harry in their early 20s. But, I have assumed that Lily's occupation will turn out to be just as important as James' career -- in fact, I suspect that they must have been working in the same field. It seems more plausible to me that they worked at least several years before having a child, and that they were more likely mid-20s when they had Harry. I guess I don't see how Lily & James could have had an important occupation (and JKR has said we'll learn more about their occupation(s) and its importance later) for only a brief period of time after graduating. So, I say it seems more reasonable that they got married relatively early (maybe at age 19-20) but didn't have Harry until they were 25-27. > and Mrs. Weasley more in her late 40's, which makes sense seeing as > how Bill is about 23. We've had huge debates in the past about the ages of the older Weasley kids -- hopefully the Weasley FAQ can be uploaded soonish so you can more easily read the arguments we've advanced. I'm in the Bill is 26/27 in GoF camp. I put Charlie at 24-26 in GoF camp. You have to look at all the statements in the books about when Gryffindor last won the Quidditch Cup & House Cup & such to start really piecing it together. Simon has done a good draft of the Weasley FAQ so far so ... as soon as we can get our act together & start uploading these FAQs, you'll see what I mean. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 27 15:46:43 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:46:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wanted! References: <92c3sf+3rca@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4A0EE2.87E53E80@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7891 Hi -- Try ebay! I would think the Hallmark stores will restock at least some of this merchandise, although they may not restock Christmas ornaments at this point. If not, I'd go with ebay or one of the other auction sites. Or, try & find a friend who can get one at their Hallmark. Penny Leilani Webb wrote: > I'm looking for the Hallmark HP ornament. (Harry on a broom.) The > stores sold out around here in a few hours. If you ask for it the > clerks just laugh hysterically. Anyone have an idea where I can > still find one? > > > eGroups Sponsor [Click Here!] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Emerald7586 at aol.com Wed Dec 27 16:21:33 2000 From: Emerald7586 at aol.com (Emerald7586 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 16:21:33 -0000 Subject: No HP Merchandise for Christmas... In-Reply-To: <01C07045.2E975D60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <92d4ud+qj2s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7892 Hello everyone. Newbie over here-- I'll probably be a lurker,so don't expect to hear too much from my little corner. Anyway, I got this relly cool tapestry blanket thing for Christmas showing Harry sort of crouched down with his wand out, and as no one else mentioned this particular item, I just thought I'd comment. ~~ Emerald Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > I am *deeply* jealous of the fabulous stuff that everyone got for Christmas. I > don't have any living relatives so never score at this time of year. Usually I > regard this as a bonus (never have to buy anything either) but I beginning to > wonder if I was wrong ..... at least this year > > storm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at h...] > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 7:22 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] No HP Merchandise for Christmas... > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by > the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because > they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, > my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! > > Hi Voicelady and all: > > I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for > Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate > set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was > practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and > others had very Harry Christmases, though. > > Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird > passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the > other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of > course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. > That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. > Piece... by... piece! > > Singing the theme from the new Charlie's Angels movie, "Independent > Women", > > Ebony > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From morine10 at aol.com Wed Dec 27 16:34:35 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:34:35 EST Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror Message-ID: <85.4d62b85.277b741b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7893 In a message dated 12/27/00 5:40:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, StephBecvar at hotmail.com writes: > i really > want her to write "Hogwarts, a History" Yes, me too! I imagine that one will take her a long time though. > i just wanted to say that i think that Dumbledore doesn't look into the > Mirror of the Erised bc he would see himself leading a common, almost > Muggle life where he could sit around all day and not read the paper and > not worry about anything about having to get out of his lazy-boy to pee. > LOL! I agree. He's tired of (fighting evil) and we really see that in GoF. If he got to sit around all day, he could just concentrate on finding that room full of chamber pots! -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 27 16:33:14 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:33:14 -0600 Subject: Happy Endings References: <92bi8r+dqmf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4A19CA.78A4922F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7894 Hi -- Scott wrote: > I am by no means saying that we shall come to the end of book VII and > find all the characters living "Happily Ever After". I do think > however that Jo is aware that a lot of her readers are children, > including her own daughter. (Notice I didn't say that most or all of > her readers were children just a lot.) She HAS to be aware of that so > that even if she's not writing for children she's not going to be > writing books that are comparable to R-rated movies. The books as > someone else wrote won't become Horror Films. If there are numerous > deaths it doesn't mean that the story is going to be reduced to a > violent bloody massacre. > Oh, I'm definitely not saying that they will turn into the horror genre. But, what I am saying is that she's been planning the story (divided into 7 books) she wants to write since 1990, and she doesn't intend to change course/deviate from her intended path just because she has children readers. Being aware that you have a younger audience & deciding to change your story to suit the sensibilities of those younger readers are 2 different things. Here's a sneak peak at a portion of one of the FAQs that addresses this topic (footnotes omitted): <<<>>>>> In one of those interviews, she also said that she couldn't look herself in the mirror if she changed the story now to suit other people. She says she'll be sorry if she loses some of her readers along the way, but that it's a price she's willing to pay to stick to artistic integrity. So .... I guess I still just don't see how you can have a series with increasingly dark tones & truly portray evil for what it is and yet still end it realistically with all the good guys still around & all paired up romantically so that everyone is one big happy family. My perception is that JKR just isn't the type of author who will take this route. I'm not saying she'll kill off everyone & that it will be violent, bloody & R-rated but ... I also don't think we'll see an ending scene at the Burrow with Harry & Ginny Potter chatting happily with Ron & Hermione Weasley (and surrounded by all the other Weasleys, happily married all, and Hagrid, Sirius, Remus, etc.). That just sounds too sugar-coated to me, despite being the hopeless romantic that I am. :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Dec 27 17:16:55 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:16:55 -0000 Subject: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92d867+s273@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7895 Stephanie Becvar wrote: > I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, that > someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes no > sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry. I always > assumed, that they got married in their early twenties, or even right after > they graduated Hogwarts. It would make sense that the wedding would happen, > Harry would be born, and that would be about the time things started going > really awry, bc i kind of though that they were in their last years of > school when Voldemort really gained power. I know this all sounds > incredibly muddled, but it is 4:28 in the morning, and i was awoken by a > dream in which a man with a human head and a snake body was telling me he > would kill me like my silly muggle mother(I have been reading HP on a loop > for a few weeks now, i guess this means i need a break) Anyways, I > always assumed Sirius and co to be younger than that, more like about 35, > which is actually a pretty big difference, and Mrs. Weasley more in her late > 40's, which makes sense seeing as how Bill is about 23. One of the main > reasons I am so interested in the new books is bc i need this kind of stuff > resolved, like Lily and James' pasts. I think that would make for an > interesting series, to have JKR pull a George Lucas on us, and go back and > write James Potter and the....books. I would read them. And BTW, i really > want her to write "Hogwarts, a History" > > Now that i have thouroughly strayed off of that topic in a long email, since > it has been a while, i just wanted to say that i think that Dumbledore > doesn't look into the Mirror of the Erised bc he would see himself leading a > common, almost Muggle life where he could sit around all day and not read > the paper and not worry about anything about having to get out of his > lazy-boy to pee. > > Stephanie I tend to think that Lily and James married young (19-20) and had Harry a year or two after they were married. They would have been in their mid 20s when they died. This means Snape, Lupin and Sirius were in their mid 30s during PoA. To me it makes sense that Voldemort would recruit people in their late teens to late 20s, since this age group seems to be the most idealistic and easier to persuade (ex. Crouch Jr.). It seems that Lily and James were very powerful judging from Hagrid's disgust at the Dursley's story of the car accident. Furthermore, James seems to have been a very smart student (PoA, McGonagall). So it isn't hard for me to believe that Lily and James would work for "Our Side" immediately after graduation. Molly is at least 7 years older than Snape, Lupin and Sirius. In GoF, Molly stated that the whomping Willow was planted after she had left Hogwarts and Lupin (PoA) stated the Whomping Willow was planted the year he began Hogwarts. IF we assume that Molly and Arthur are 7 years older than Lupin, married immediately after graduating, and had Bill a year after their marriage, then Bill would be 12 years younger than Lupin and in his mid 20's during PoA. Interestingly, Molly (GoF) stated the Fat Lady lectured her for sneaking into Gryffindor Tower late one night after spending the evening with Arthur. Perhaps Bill was the result of this evening or another evening? If so, then Molly might have been pregnant with Bill during her Hogwarts time. Also, I think Arthur is older than Molly. In PS/SS, Ron tells Harry that his parents were both in Gryffindor. If Arthur and Molly are the same age (or if both were enrolled at Hogwarts concurrently), then wouldn't the Fat Lady have caught both of them sneaking into the Tower? The trouble spots for figuring out the Weasley ages is the date of the last time Gryffindor won the House Quidditch Cup (CoS) and in GoF where Bill states the last time he was at Hogwarts was 5 years ago. :-) Milz From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Dec 27 17:39:32 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:39:32 +0100 Subject: Little comments on Dumbledore, Lily and James, etc. References: <92bmim+qkon@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4A2954.2BDFE885@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7896 Charmian wrote: IMHO, Dumbledore *has* to die, or in any case somehow lose his omnipotence. Harry depends on him too much - he's never going to become mature enough and strong enough for a final showdown with Voldemort if deep down he's thinking that as long as Dumbledore's there, everything will be all right. Now, I don't want Sirius to die, and I certainly don't want Remus (my favorite along with Harry) to go down either. If it's any consolation, Remus does have a major part in book seven, meaning he's got to be around until then...of course, if I've got my rumors correctly, we also supposedly find out why some people become ghosts and others don't in that book as well, so maybe Remus dies in book V (he is a favorite of JKR, so maybe he's the death that will half kill her - please, no!) and comes back in VII...argh. In terms of Lily and James, I have a question: Why does everyone assume they got married right out of Hogwarts? Did I miss something in the books? Age 19/20 is really quite young for marriage, and we don't know much about their pre-marriage romance, either - maybe they were just friends who fell in love after they left Hogwarts, and got married afterwards. For that matter, there's also the matter of ageing. Harry doesn't know about that particular fact of wizard life yet, and from Dumbledore and McGonagall we can sort of gather that even at the age of, say, 70-100, wizards and witches look only youngish or middle-aged, so maybe MWPP are actually in their 40s or 50s...or is there a flaw in my logic? ~Firebolt, especially incoherent today Charmian wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " > wrote: > > > > > > I am still undecided as to whether I think Harry will die. All I > can > > say is "We shall see". Then again I have been wondering whether or > > not Voldemort might die in books V or VI and then...well I could > > ramble incessantly (if I'm not already) but I think I just let > > everyone else comment. > > Well, I agree that Rowling isn't going to go for horror style graphic > violence (notice that Adavra Kadavra is a quick death, not a painful > drawn out one). I actually thought she was going to kill off a > regular character in book IV. > > Where did people get the idea that Harry was going to die? This seems > a pretty regular one in the HP Character death poll. I personally > doubt that he will...Rowling just doesn't seem to be writing that > dark, at least so far. Same thing for Hermione and Ron. I think about > the darkest thing happening recently in the books is the fate of > Neville's parents. > > As for Voldemort, unless Rowling pulls an "evil behind the evil" plot > on us, I don't see him dying until book VII, but he probably will > perish in some fashion. > The older characters, IMO are probably more likely to get killed off. > I don't see Dumbledore dying until VII or the very end of VI at > least, because he's too important to the plot and structure of the > series. Though I do suspect he will die, because they're always > talking about how old he is, and the mentor dies quite frequently > too. > It would be exceedingly depressing if Rowling did kill off Sirius or > Lupin. But there's not really much that makes me suspect she would. > > As for the faculty, I doubt she'll kill of McGonagall, as she's set > up to be Dumbledore's successor. Snape, on the other hand, is > possibly acting as a double agent, always a risky job, and is *not* > on Voldemort's good books anyway, to put it mildly. The rest of them > don't have enough pagetime for me to suspect one way or the other. I > actually do hope she tells us more about them, especially the > perennially mentioned but never very present professors Sinistra and > Vector. > > Charmian > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Wed Dec 27 18:20:14 2000 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:20:14 -0000 Subject: Stephen Fry's version In-Reply-To: <92cil2+lm0o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92dbsu+51u6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7897 I listened to this for eight and ahalf hours yesterday. Imobile on the sofa with my sister bringing me beer each time the last can ran dry. I thought Stephen Fry's interpretation of Hermione on the train was spot on perfect. Dai From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 27 18:25:36 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:25:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Little comments on Dumbledore, Lily and James, etc. References: <92bmim+qkon@eGroups.com> <3A4A2954.2BDFE885@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <3A4A3420.794F3911@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7898 Hi -- Firebolt wrote: > In terms of Lily and James, I have a question: Why does everyone > assume they got married right out of Hogwarts? Did I miss something in > the books? Age 19/20 is really quite young for marriage, That's what I think. I'm also puzzled as to why people have made this assumption. I know Lily is described as a "young" woman when she came out of the wand, implying she was young when she died. But, she doesn't have to be 22 at her death to be young. I still think they were career-focused for several years at least before having Harry. > and we don't know much about their pre-marriage romance, either - > maybe they were just friends who fell in love after they left > Hogwarts, and got married afterwards. I like this theory too. It squares with the notion that as far as we now know, Lily didn't have any real part in the Marauders' lives at Hogwarts. It's quite possible it seems that they didn't fall in love until after Hogwarts -- maybe they even really got to know one another through their career(s). Or, like you said, they were friends who didn't become lovers until much later. I like that scenario for obvious reasons. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Dec 27 18:28:11 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:28:11 -0600 Subject: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror References: <92d867+s273@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4A34BB.F9FB8E7E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7899 Hi -- milz wrote: > The trouble spots for figuring out the Weasley ages is the date of > the last time Gryffindor won the House Quidditch Cup (CoS) and in GoF > where Bill states the last time he was at Hogwarts was 5 years ago. I still say that the 5 yr statement cannot be taken to mean that Bill was last at Hogwarts as a student 5 years ago (making him 23 in GoF). He's visiting Hogwarts then (in GoF) as an alumni, so if 5 years later, he comes back & makes the statement that it's been 5 yrs since he last saw Hogwarts, it wouldn't be right to conclude that he'd only been out of school 5 years in that case. See the logic or am I rambling? He could have visited Hogwarts as an alumni 5 yrs prior to GoF. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 19:28:05 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:28:05 -0000 Subject: Death Eater Roll Call? In-Reply-To: <92d0e7+984e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92dfs5+o4nf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7900 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: Personally, I doubt that Bagman was a death eater. Seems too incompetent and non-threatening. Same with Fudge. It seems that Rowling makes it a point in book IV that all of the bad stuff in the wizarding world is not necessarily associated with Voldemort. (And these guys don't seem malevolent, simply blind/irritating) But who knows? > (Bagman wasn't in the cemetery, right?) Of course, there were quite > a few Death Eaters that Voldermort didn't "introduce". I think Harry > makes the comment that he's outnumbered 30 to 1....that would make > for 28 DE, not including Voldermort and Wormtail. They only > mentioned 9 (I believe). > > Thoughts? Comments? I'm not sure if you all have discussed this > before... > > Amy >From Voldemort's assembly at the graveyard: (Harry, on p. 660, does say that he is outnumbered by "at least thirty to one" indeed, BTW) Actually Present: Wormtail/Pettigrew Avery (V performs Crucio upon him) Lucius Malfoy (wonder if Narcissa was there too?) Macnair (now destroys dangerous beasts for Ministry) Crabbe (senior) Goyle (sr.) Nott ("a stooped figure in Mr. Goyle's shadow") Mentioned by V, but not there: Lestranges (in Akzaban) A gap of six in the circle 3 dead, unnamed 1)too cowardly to return (probably Karkaroff) 2)"who I believe has left me forever" (probably Snape) 3)"my most faithful servant" at Hogwarts (Crouch Jr.) Other parts of book: Mentioned by Karkaroff in trial Pensieve scene: Antonin Dolohov (apprehended) Rosier (dead) Travers (helped murder the McKinnons, apprehended) Mulciber (specialized in Imperius Curse, apprehended) Rookwood (spy in ministry) Three other unnamed death eaters tried with Crouch Jr. p. 531 Sirius talks about people who became Death Eaters, also mentions that Rosier and Wilkes died the year before Voldemort's fall. I suspect that Rowling might use the Pensieve again or some other means of flashback, so this info might be relevant later. Charmian From machenback at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 19:32:23 2000 From: machenback at hotmail.com (machenback at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:32:23 -0000 Subject: Snape and the Death Eaters In-Reply-To: <92d0e7+984e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92dg47+m2nr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7901 I apologise if the following has already been reported on this list but I don't think it has; Back in October/November one of the posters on Jenna's UHPFC board attended a reading that JKR did in Vancouver.She reported that afterwards there was a Q&A session, during which JKR was asked straight out who the three "missing" Death Eaters were.JKR gave a reply which apparently made it obvious that the faithful servant was Barty, the coward was Karkaroff - and the one who had left forever and who would be killed was Snape. At this point, a groan of dismay swept over the audience at the thought of Snape dying (obviously there was a big Snape-fan contingent in that night). JKR looked very taken aback at this reaction and promptly said "Oh, you don't have to worry about Snape - he's tough." As a Snape fan myself, I hope this was an indication that he is going to make it through to the end of Book 7 in one piece, although I have no idea what he will be doing in the meantime. Other snippets from the same talk were that it is very significant that James's animagus form was a stag (stags apparently having a mythological enmity with snakes) and that registered animagi at least do not pick what form they take when they transform (I realise that that snippet raises more questions but I have no more on the point). I wonder if Bagman will turn out thoroughly bad in the end and whether he will be revealed to have had something to do with the attack on the Longbottoms, since as far as I remember Dumbledore did make a bit of a point of saying that given their mental state afterwards, neither of Neville's parents was up to much as witnesses. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > First let me say that I do not have the books, particularly GoF, in > front of me, so I'm doing this all from memory. Please feel free to > correct and fill in gaps. > > I do think that Snape is going to be a double agent for Dumbledore > again - although, I have no idea how he's going to pull it off. When > they're in the infirmary at the end of GoF, Dumbledore sends Snape > off telling him something to the effect of "I'm sorry to make you do > this, but it has to be done." At surface glance (I've only read GoF > twice) it comes across as Snape going back to Voldermort. And we've > heard from Dumbledore multiple times that Snape turned to the "good" > side at great personal risk. Dumbledore trusts him for a reason - we > just don't know what that reason is yet. There's more to this story > than we know. > > I seem to remember that when Voldermore was "introducing" the Death > Eaters - I came up with more missing than just the three. The last > three he talked about was 1) one that was at Hogwarts that had > already come back to him, 2) one that had been a coward, and 3) one > that had betrayed him. > > Ok...the first one, I was assuming was Barty Crouch, Jr. Voldermort > knew he was there and following his orders. The second one...here's > where I had a problem. There's two candidates - Karkaroff (who has > fled) and Ludovic Bagman. I'm going with Karkaroff - he's still > running (but I think Bagman is too). The third one...the one that > had betrayed him and will now die for it. We're all assuming it's > Snape. But, we still have Bagman floating around out there. We know > he was a death eater and we know he turned other Death Eaters into > the ministry in order to save himself. Bagman's betrayal isn't as > severe as Snapes, but he is still a loose end. > > (Bagman wasn't in the cemetery, right?) Of course, there were quite > a few Death Eaters that Voldermort didn't "introduce". I think Harry > makes the comment that he's outnumbered 30 to 1....that would make > for 28 DE, not including Voldermort and Wormtail. They only > mentioned 9 (I believe). > > Thoughts? Comments? I'm not sure if you all have discussed this > before... > > Amy From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Dec 27 20:06:23 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:06:23 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy endings/Death? In-Reply-To: <92bmim+qkon@eGroups.com> References: <92bi8r+dqmf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001227111654.00b85ae0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7902 At 03:10 AM 12/27/00 +0000, Charmian wrote: >Where did people get the idea that Harry was going to die? I think because this would be a way to save JKR from being oblidged to write about Harry for the rest of her life! Of course, this strategy didn't work for Arthur Conan Doyle with Sherlock Holmes at Reichenbach Falls, but then JKR,unlike Doyle, is making enough sums from the books that she could end it after book VII if she chose. On the other hand, these books have all along been touted as "A Wizard's Coming of Age", and that would be undermined by Harry dying at 17. Or perhaps JKR could take the Louisa May Alcott route and preclude any post-book VII sequels by writing a hasty and distinctly tear-jerking epilogue finishing off Harry's life in summary, along these lines (*Marginal* apologies to Alcott): "Harry never married, but lived, bravely and usefully, among his chosen people [Muggle-borns, werewolves, and half-giants], till he was Avada Kedavra-ed while defending them, and at last lay quietly asleep in the Wizard's wilderness he loved so well, with a lock of Cho's hair upon his breast, and a smile on his face which seemed to say that the greatest Auror of the century had fought his last fight and was at peace. And now, having endevored to suit everyone by many weddings, few deaths, and as much prosperity as the eternal ebbs and flows of magic will permit, let the incantations stop, the wands die out, and the curtain fall FOREVER [Got that, Time-Warner?] on the boy wizard with the remarkable scar." But let's hope that by the end of the series JKR is not disgusted enough to be tempted to embrace a conclusion *that* depressing! >Same thing for Hermione and Ron. I hope that the frequently touted scenario of Ron going over to the Dark Side, trying to kill Harry, but getting instead killed by Wormtail defending Harry is not played out. >As for Voldemort, unless Rowling pulls an "evil behind the evil" plot >on us, I don't see him dying until book VII, but he probably will >perish in some fashion. The only alternate scenario I see is if Voldy dies in book VI, and then the Death Eaters try to avenge him in VII (the message to the kiddies being: Evil forces die, but others still remain to be fought). >It would be exceedingly depressing if Rowling did kill off Sirius or >Lupin. But there's not really much that makes me suspect she would. My main anxiety about Sirius is his resemblance to Louisa May Alcott's hero Dan -- wild, passionate, loving of those he loves, ruthless to those he hates, and he even is unjustly thrown into prison where he almost wastes away. Alcott kills Dan off in the passage from _Jo's Boys_ that I parodied above. And I'm afraid of the same happening to Sirius. (I'm now waiting for someone to reassure me that Rowling is not Louisa May Alcott.) -- Dave From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 20:23:14 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:23:14 -0000 Subject: Origins of the "Farmer in the Dell" theory... Message-ID: <92dj3i+gmr4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7903 Afternoon, everyone... as I'm waiting around online for my beta- readers to show up so I can post to ff.net and resume inter-holiday hibernation , I ran across something of interest. Has anyone here ever heard of Gypsy? She's the teen author of the first known HP fanfic, "Harry Potter and the Man of Unknown" (c. summer 1999) and the first known inventor of the canon-implausible D/H pairing. Upon recommendation from another online fan, I traveled to her website which archived HP fanfic in the Golden Age before the HP section of ff.net, before the HP4GU Yahoo! Days, before even the U.S. publication of PoA... you get the point. ...and learned that she spotted the Farmer in the Dell situation as early as post-CoS. She calls it a "square", which may be more appropriate. Here's the link to her editorial, if anyone is interested: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/harrypotter/romance1.html It's funny... there's no date given, but from her comments about the "rumored new character, Ravenclaw Seeker Cho Chang" you can tell that she wrote the editorial pre-PoA. LOL! --Ebony (who doesn't know when to let an overbeaten topic die) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 20:44:42 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:44:42 -0500 Subject: Death Eater Roll Call? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7904 Charmian wrote: >Personally, I doubt that Bagman was a death eater. Seems too incompetent >and non-threatening. Same with Fudge. It seems that Rowling makes it a >point in book IV that all of the bad stuff in the wizarding world is not >necessarily associated with Voldemort. (And these guys don't seem >malevolent, simply blind/irritating) But who knows? I am very curious about JKR's further development of Fudge along these lines, but I tend to agree with you/hope you're right. You can interpret Fudge's behavior as suspicious: he's quite insistent on leading Harry back to the castle after the 3rd task, he brings a Dementor in to Crouch Jr. (& sics it on him?). But I hope it is explained not by his being a V sympathizer but as Harry sees it at the end of GoF: he is too threatened by the truth to see that he has to acknowledge it and choose sides. This kind of fear is just as dangerous as the fear that made Pettigrew sell a friend to save his skin, and just as dangerous as the righteous zealotry displayed by Crouch Sr. JKR has resisted dividing the wizarding world into nice people who are good vs. nasty people who are bad (the best example so far is Snape), and I'm glad. Speaking of Snape, to pick up on another thread, I think V *is* probably referring to him when he speaks of the one who has left and will be killed, but even V seems not 100% certain that this Death Eater has left the fold forever: a point in favor of S's pretending to return to V with the offer of being a spy at the end of GoF or sometime thereafter. No, V isn't going to trust him easily, but that's the way it is with spies--the closer they are to your enemy, the more valuable they are, but they're also a bigger risk. The possibility of having a loyal Death Eater at Hogwarts, one who has Dumbledore's trust despite his history, one who is Malfoy's Head of House (good for keeping an eye on him) and one who, furthermore, hates the Potters with a passion . . . this must pose a temptation to V, who luckily seems unable to read hearts. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 20:56:09 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:56:09 -0500 Subject: Number of students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7905 Hi all, JKR recently said in an interview that there are about 1000 students at Hogwarts. This seems very high. It would mean that, allowing for variations in class size, house size, and boy/girl split, there are on average 250 students per house, or 36 students per class year per house (18 boys, 18 girls, again on average). Potions with the Slytherins therefore means 72 students in one room! (Assuming that, a la most English classes, Snape only teaches 7 or so separate classes per term. If he has many more preps than that to do, no wonder he's such a grouch. I speak as a former boarding and private school teacher . . . ) So where are the other Griffindor boys Harry's age? Of course we only meet a handful of students due to the limitations of space and attention. But it does seem that there are only 5 Griffindor boys in Harry's year--him and his 4 roommates. It's certainly possible that there are others in another dorm, but put the various mentions of these 5 together with the problem of 70+ students in a classroom and 1000 seems high. Maybe they divide the entire school up into coexisting alternative universes, so that there are 3 Griffindor populations occupying the same space at any given time . . . ;-) Seriously, this is the kind of detail that gnaws at me. JKR usually seems pretty careful about this kind of thing. But maybe she never gave it a thought and just responded to the interviewer off the top of her head. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From catz109 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 20:58:36 2000 From: catz109 at hotmail.com (Rosie Becky) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:58:36 -0000 Subject: Stephen Fry's version In-Reply-To: <92dbsu+51u6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92dl5s+sor9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7906 I also listened to it, and my sister taped it even though it took up, like, 3 tapes. Madness! I also heard JKR when the story ended, In the interview. By the way hello! im new :oP From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 17:57:26 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:57:26 +0200 Subject: Listening to audio HP Message-ID: <001001c07049$5350c660$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7907 >My domestic partner, Tim, listens to books on tape instead of reading >books whenever he has the choice. One reason is that he can listen to >audiotapes while driving the car; the other reason is that he has >dyslexia and it takes him FOREVER to struggle through reading one >page. > Oh! I see. I hadn't thought of that. Strange that I didn't, because 3 of the members on my team in the place I volunteer in had a similar problem, and so we used to photocopy all the protocol of every meeting for them so that they wouldn't have to take notes, and we'd helped them with writing things down (the ones who were disgraphic) etc. If this is the case here, I'm sorry I seemed impolite in that remark... Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 17:33:28 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:33:28 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 Message-ID: <000f01c07049$51f973c0$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7908 >It will be Philosopher's Stone for the UK market. Each scene mentioning >said words are being shot twice using the different terminology for the >two markets - UK and US. That's really stupid. There are bound to be SOME variations between the secnes., although I've read the formal explanation for the initial usage of an "easier" word for Americans, and although I usually enjoy reveling superiority over americans, I am usually only kidding, and I think it's really some kind of an insult if it's meant for "easier understanding for americans" . They're not SO stupid. >No. Could you give a brief summary please ? Well, there was this OVER enthusiastic interviewer. This was a programme about books, that is appraantly on every week, I neve watched it before, I wasn't een wahtving this till I got a phone call from someone who knows I like HP and had just spoted it. anyway, this Interviewer guy was over enthusiatic and sounded like this was the firs ttim e he was meeting a famous author. Most of his Q's were not interesting, so I hardly remember. I DO remember that they discussed the "big death" , meaning, the "good" character marked for death in the course of the new 3 books. She said that most people think it's Ron or Hagrid, and that she has no idea where they get those ideas. in fact, maybe by saying that she was in fact implying that they will NOT be the ones? hard to tell. >>- Spike and Lynda from Press Gang, as well as to Beatrice and >> Benedik. >You had to get PG in there somewhere ?? ;-)) :-) I can't HELP it... ;-)) >Because it brings it all alive. can't wait to hear Stephen Fry do GOF !! Sure. I understand that - I saw Stephen Fry's name on the cassettes when I was over in England, and really wanted to buy it for myself, but didn't, because by that time I had spent so much of my money, taht I was starting to feel guilty... ;-) what I DID mean is why would you prefer to listen to the cassette inSTEAD of reading the books? (as the person I commented to implied). that would take half the point out of it, woduldn't it? >Oh, yeah I forgot to say welcome to the list from another newbie !! > >Michelle :-)) You didn't say you were new. But anyway, as oppsed to the PGML, it's nice to know someone before joining the list. Makes you feel more at home (not that the people from the PGML didn't - Kevin and Trav make it feel as if you're one of their distant relatives...;-) ). Anywya, The good thing I have observed about thislist is that you actually discuss HP, as opposed to the PGML, and I suppose also any other lists, who've run out of things to discuss and so mostly mail Off-topic. On the other hand, if I thought that getting 20 message a day was a lot - getting 50 a day is a little more difficult to keep up with. I am now replying to messages from 2 days ago, and have another 3 digests aehad of me.... ;-) Hope I can keep up. Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 21:13:39 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:13:39 +0200 Subject: What's next?? (+ OT Shakespeare) Message-ID: <001301c07049$e3012340$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7909 >Some have mentioned their like of Shakespeare's "Much Ado About >Nothing" (which is not one of my favorites--I prefer the tragedies) Well, I love them all, (At least all the ones I've read). And for me, I guess it depends on my mood. There was a time when I could just read Romeo and Juliet over and over and over again, and with my best friend we used to roll-play the reading on Macbeth, when we were at highschool, but when I was last in England I watched "As you like it" performed by the RSC, and got right back into the mood for the comedies (Sorry for being so tremeandously Off-Topic... - >while chatting about their R/H leanings. I'll use a line from Julius >Caesar that I think fits in this case: "Yet Brutus says he was >ambitious/And Brutus is an honorable man." that makes me smile. My mother, in every possible remotely fitting situation, quotes that very line, reminding us agian and again that in the days SHE was at school, they had to learnt hat WHOLE speech by heart... ;-) As I had to elarn many hyms from the bible by heart, I was not remotely impressed at the time (because in a way, as far as language complexities are concerned - Shakespeare is to young english speaking school kids what the bible's ancient language is to young herbrew-speaking school kids...) I've finished being Off-topic now.).;-) >Also consider the fact that shape-shifting is a possibility in this >magical world. Someone else could shape-shift (via Polyjuice Potion, >etc.) into Ron or Hermione and do a lot of damage. If we follow the >argument I've seen thrown about here that Harry is much closer to >Ron than Hermione, the logical choice would be Ron. > You know, that would be a good idea, an almost obvious idea , the polyjuice potion. I know you were just using that as an example to make your point, but it brings me to another point - after reding book 2 (all night, without stopping , even though I ahd a very important day ahead, I just couldn't stop - like many othes of you, I would guess) - after thinking the bookthrough, the next thought that came to me was - "so what's next?" Not in the sense that "Oh, this is such a thrilling end that leaves everything open " ( coz we know that's not true, of all the 4 books it's probably the least OPEN ending ) but in the sense that - JKR has made up so many things - what can she ever make up next which will also be interesting as the last two books and also complete new and original?? and she DID, she made it up. However, during book 4 I felt that the originality had gone down . there were less new things, probably I felt this way just because for the first time since books 1, Voldemort had really returned, and in books 2&3 he didn't. Even in the maze at the end, most of the creatures he'd met were creatures we already heard of or met in books 1-3. (but I suppose that you've all discussed book 4 over and over and over again, if you liked it more or less than theother books , if you felt that lack of the quiddich or not... ;-) ) . The thing is - I took book 4 from a friend who gets the books first before everyone - before I can get hold of them) and so she read it before me. and she only told me about the ending that it was "even more intricate and sophisticateed than the ending of PoA" . So I had really expedted something new and ecxuiting, - and the polyjuice potion WAS very sophisticated and the ending WAS surprising, but somehting in a way disappointed me , I though "ah, Polyjuoce potion, well, we've had that already." So that idea of someone impersonating Ron is excellent, .. except that it's been done, and BY ron and Harry, to Malfoy. My point is - what could she invent now? I just can't think. I know she WILL, but I have this feeling that my feelings while reading the end of book 4 were right. Maybe she's just invented SO many things in this new world that inventing more little details, spells, , charms etc, will be difficult - because then y?u'd think - " hold on! if there really IS a spell like that - why didn't Dumbldore perform it in situation X in book Y? " . I think Ive made a pretty pointless point , but if anyone has any ideas about this.... :-) Maya From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 27 21:28:43 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:28:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape the double agent References: <92cjr5+uveh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4A5F0A.8C5AF51F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7910 Keith Fraser wrote: > When he made his speech in the > graveyard, Voldemort said there was one Death Eater who had left him > forever, and who would be killed. That must have been Snape (the one > too scared to return was Karkaroff). Ah, but you know those "musts" are what trip us up! Voldemort gives no specifics. He *believes* that the one has left him forever, and if so must be killed, but if that is Snape, and Snape convinces him that he (S) has gotten over whatever was so unforgivable, then it is conceivable that Voldemort would accept him back. See, I'm of the school that thinks Snape loved Lily, and what has made Snape's return to Voldemort so not-even-entertained by both Dumbledore and Voldemort is that Voldemort killed Lily. Soooo, if Snape can manage to convincingly produce words that seem to betray Lily (by telling Voldemort he's cool with it now), there's a chance he can do the spy gig again. --Amanda, the one holding the "Snape" banner From editor at texas.net Wed Dec 27 21:31:58 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:31:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Merchandise for Christmas References: <3A48E373.A68A410A@swbell.net> <004b01c07005$9e721d40$152e07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A4A5FCE.A6E3C41C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7911 Dinah wrote: > And there is no merchandise available here. The only possibility is the > journals via Amazon, but they are really expensive for me, so I can just sit > here and weep... ;-( Okay, guys, everyone who got doubles of anything, pack 'em up and ship 'em to Dinah and Storm. We'll call it Project Sympathy (sounded just *oodles* better than Project Whiner....) Luv, Amanda From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 27 21:29:28 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:29:28 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 References: <004201c06f96$10c07600$4aac003e@default> Message-ID: <004301c0704d$c5c3a560$c4c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7912 ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Maya Crabtree Till: Skickat: den 27 december 2000 00:46 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 > > >In the delightful issue of who dies I have nothing to offer but my gut > feelings. > >First of all, I disagree with anyone who thinks that one of the major > characters (Harry, > >Hermione, Ron) will die. I will bet anybody my last knut that the end of > book 7 will find > >them alive and well (after M. Pomfrey regrows several of their organs, > obviously). > > > I tend to agree with that. Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that > she writed for children, Okay, maybe more adults read it than children, but > as she often says, and as I heard her say in the interview with her I > watched yersterday, seh exxentially still aims this for children reading, > and so when she DOES kill, it won't be dramaticlly. So, no matter how many > death eaters die - she will not go popping off "Good " carachters one by > one. Whether you prefer Ron or Harry to "win" Hermione, or if they even go > their own seperate ways (because, that's still AN option in the end,isn't > it) there's no chance she's gonna kill the essential "Good". > > > >I also quite firmly believe that these will not die either - Dumbledore (if > he dies, it > >will be at the end of book 7 only), > > Actually, that guess makes my previous assersion a little unsound if I agree > with it. All along book 4 I though I saw signs of Dubledore's death (not in > book 4 ).It's pretry obvious, Harry mentiones how old Dunmbeldore's looking > infinite number of times...;-) So I do have a feeling he will either die > naturally, or die heroiclly, but in a stage in which he knows he's not far > from death any way., Not because he's not brave, but because he is too > "Good" to die. I'd even started to imagine what the school would look like > with a new principal (someone new, not Mcgonagall for some reason I don't > know), and that Harry would have no one to turn to. But I am really at a > loss about Dumbledore. On one hand, getting rid of him WILL make a change, > because as it is now, all the books end like a murder mystery, the detective > uncoveres everything and solves the mystery - that's Dumbldore, On the other > hand - you just wouldn't feel safe. not just harry - but the reader as > well, who always knows that whatever happens, Dumbledore will make all right > at the end... > > No. Sirius can't die. specially not if harry dies. My bet is on Lupin, who > by all accounts is a VERY noble and good person, brave, intelligent , etc. > We REALLY like him, right? Almost like serious or just as much as Sirius. > However, he is not serious, so he is a much better candidate to kill. I > suppose. However, I think I personally like him just as much as sirius. So I > really wouldn't want him killed. > > > Cho (I don't really think she'll die, though), > > Oh, I hope she does. > :-) > Sorry. not that I'm a H/H advocate. If I had to choose it'd be Ron, but I > don';t know who's more likely, if any of them. The point is, this Harry Cho > thing is silly, I never liked it. oh, but if she dies, harry'll have to > express emition and be sad. hm.. I thnk I still prefer that she DID die... > :-) > > >Sorry about this, but I realized that in my haste I forgot my prime > candidate for heroic > >death - Dobby. Winkey, of course, is a gonner too. > > > > Why davka Dobby? > Maya --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dobby- Because he is this type of character, a good house elf with his own ideas, I don't see why Winkey should die though, she is more able to develope like someone could help her with her alcoholism and teach her some more new ideas, Hermione could do this... BTW I don't know if elves are mortal, does JKR say something about it? And why do you wish Cho dead when you don't want Hermione to get Harry?? Cho is a minor character, I don't think she is supposed to have a relationship with Harry. (I still think Ron will get Hermione) Dumbledore could influence the plot even as a ghost. There are as you say many implications of his near death so it might happen in book 5 already IMO. Harry can't die before book 7, the story would collapse if he did. Why should any teacher die other than Dumbledore, I don't see the point here. catrina PS - very OT When trying to send back the message my OE asked wether I wanted to use Unicode or ordinary...I left it unicoded. I hope everybody can read it. I am sort of a font collector having stored about 200 in my computer and some more on disk. I want this unicode font for my collection, Maya. I like the way it puts the quotation marks and other signs. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 21:55:51 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:55:51 +0200 Subject: HPstuff for christmas Message-ID: <002201c0704f$caa7dd60$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7913 >-A Hogwarts journal with a Hologram on the front moving between the >seal and the school. It has black pages and a green pen. >-The other Hogwarts journal. >-The Harry and the Sorting Hat secret box (I lost the thing that came >in it and had to search all the discarded wrapping paper and boxes. >Finally found it though.) >-The mystery at Hogwarts game. >-The Month Calendar and the Day by day one. (My Granmother, who has >only read book one, took one look at it and said "Is Harry supposed >to be drunk?") >-Those Enesco plastic stones. (Don't laugh, though I did since I had >told them the other day that they weren't worth buying ...oops) >-I also got the Qudditch notepad thing with the Brookstick pen >(really cute!) > Wow!!! all these things actually exist???? In Israel, although HP books have been best sellers for many months, although the books are always displayed in a place you will notice them in the stors, and although the biggest book store in Egnaknd has one side of its bags reading "Did you read Harry Potter yet?" (in hebrew of ocurSE). there is aboluetley NO merchadise of the kind! When I went over to England recently, I had expeted to see piles of it! Maybe I was't looking in the rigth place but ALL I saw was one monthly calendar. and not many of it at all. that was in WHSmith (for those of you who are british). in fact, wehnI had looked for it in the store, expecting to find it in a noticable place, I had difficulty finding it. I then looked in the "best sellers" shelf. then in the "fiction " shelf, then in the "paperback" shelf, then in the " books by author's name" (or whateveR) shelf., ONly then did it occur to me to visit the children;s corner, and there is was, not displayed (again) in a noticable place, but in R, for Rowling. like any other book. not that there's anything wrong about that, just that since in ISRAEL this british book was so admired and being read mostly by adu,ts etc, I HAD expected it to be ten times more in the UK, it's birthplace. And no merchadise. My friend who'd gone to the USA brought me back a HP blue mug with the Hogwarts coat of arms on it (with a Crabtree&Evelyn's soap in it...;-) ). and I was impressed, because I had never seen any HP menchandise...;-) she also got herself a little keyholder with a sorting hat that you shake and it tells you which houes you should be in... Hope you all enjoy you HP things. Aren't there some which you find just TOO much? TOO commercialized? I mean, my friend, while in the US e-mailed me and ASKED if I wnated the calender, but I said I didn't, for some reason I don't need to see thos pictures all the time. I prefer imagining it, and the coats of arms was okay, because 1) I love caots of arms 2)it's not really something you'd imagine so much differnetly. 3) I expect it's the same in both the english and Amercian versions... Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 22:06:31 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:06:31 +0200 Subject: MORE about HP gifts... Message-ID: <002901c07051$4884d2a0$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7914 More comments on HP Christmas gifts: >3. A stuffed Hedwig attached by strings to a Hogwarts banner & holding >a parchment note in her claws. When you move the banner, she flaps her >wings. I hadn't seen her at all before, but my mother-in-law found her >at Hallmark. She is *very* cool, although my husband is horrified by >her! woo, that DOES sound like a nice thing. >My sister & I played the Quidditch game twice yesterday I wonder if you could describe it. (I mean, further than what you already wrote. ) in general ... I wonder how it's done. Also, I don't remember who menntioned a game called something like "mystery at Hogwarts" - but I'd also like to hear about that...;-) Thanks! Maya From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 22:21:39 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:21:39 -0500 Subject: Who died first? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7915 Okay, I KNOW this question must've been discussed ad nauseam before I joined on, but I looked through the archives until my eyes popped out (and still only got 1/4 of the way through) and can't find it. Feel free to refer me to an approximate date or message # where it was discussed and I'll go read what people had to say. The question: WHY does James come out of V's wand before Lily, when he died before she did? Is this a howler of an error or a massive clue to future revelations? I thought maybe he died after her--if killed by something slower-acting than Avada Kedavra, perhaps he was still dying a lingering death when V killed her--but still, the wand spits things out in reverse order of its original action, so the first one cursed should be the last to emerge regardless of the time of the actual death. Help . . . Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 27 22:19:04 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:19:04 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 (Dee Note: OT)more OT References: <004201c06f96$10c07600$4aac003e@default> <006401c06fa3$ac2da9c0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <008e01c07053$a4ad6f40$c4c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7916 You don't need it, Denise because its only letters with higher ASCII numbers than the English that are affected, like in my 'Original message' note below, the specific Swedish letters come as Hebrew letters and signs. I don't know if you can see it in your end? I think you got the message because you don't have it. I seem to have the device in my computer since I have a few hebrew fonts installed, though none works the right way, from right to left! I got mine with IE, they call it hebrew enabled for viewing web pages. I hope this helped. Maybe we have an expert in the group that can explain better. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Denise Rohleder Till: Skickat: den 27 december 2000 02:23 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 367 (Dee Note: OT) > Maya, > I am not certain what you have embedded in your message (see about for info > about the original subject), but it asked me to download a "Unicode Hebrew > translator" to view your message, something I am not familiar with. > > Does anyone else on the list know what this is, or why I gave me that > message? > > Thanks! > ************************************************************ > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > ************************************************************ From Emerald7586 at aol.com Wed Dec 27 22:25:53 2000 From: Emerald7586 at aol.com (Emerald7586 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:25:53 -0000 Subject: Ages? In-Reply-To: <3A4A0E9E.9C49A982@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92dq9h+7qmt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7917 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Stephanie Becvar wrote: > > > I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, > > that > > someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes > > no > > sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry. I > > always assumed, that they got married in their early twenties, or even > > right after they graduated Hogwarts. It would make sense that the > > wedding would happen, Harry would be born, > > Well, I'll climb on my soapbox briefly to state that no matter what you > believed as a teenager, babies do not *always* immediately follow > marriage, even when the parents desperately want that. I suffered > through 4 yrs of infertility to get where I am (6 mths pregnant at last) > so .... I tend to get a bit touchy when people make this assumption > (right up there with "Oh, you've been married 7 years? 'Bout time you > two got around to having kids." Grrrr!). > > Okay ... anyway ... back to the Potters. Assuming no infertility, it is > possible that they had Harry in their early 20s. But, I have assumed > that Lily's occupation will turn out to be just as important as James' > career -- in fact, I suspect that they must have been working in the > same field. It seems more plausible to me that they worked at least > several years before having a child, and that they were more likely > mid-20s when they had Harry. I guess I don't see how Lily & James could > have had an important occupation (and JKR has said we'll learn more > about their occupation(s) and its importance later) for only a brief > period of time after graduating. So, I say it seems more reasonable > that they got married relatively early (maybe at age 19-20) but didn't > have Harry until they were 25-27. > > > and Mrs. Weasley more in her late 40's, which makes sense seeing as > > how Bill is about 23. > > We've had huge debates in the past about the ages of the older Weasley > kids -- hopefully the Weasley FAQ can be uploaded soonish so you can > more easily read the arguments we've advanced. I'm in the Bill is 26/27 > in GoF camp. I put Charlie at 24-26 in GoF camp. You have to look at > all the statements in the books about when Gryffindor last won the > Quidditch Cup & House Cup & such to start really piecing it together. > Simon has done a good draft of the Weasley FAQ so far so ... as soon as > we can get our act together & start uploading these FAQs, you'll see > what I mean. > > Penny > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] I was just rereading SS and on the second page it says "Mrs. Potter was Mrs. Dursley's sister, but they hadn't met for several years..." This means that if we assume the last time Petunia had seen Lily was before Petunia was married and Lily was still a minor and living at their parents house Lily probably did get married young and have Harry since she would have had to do that in the space of several years. The Dursleys had never seen Harry either, so he was probably born within the space of those few years. Petunia probably never saw Lily again after she herself was married due to her loathing of anything having to do with the wizarding world. I can't seem to type out how I'm thinking so if anyone can figure it out and tell everyone else in comprehendable logic I'd be very grateful. ~~ Emerald From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 22:26:01 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:26:01 -0000 Subject: MORE about HP gifts... In-Reply-To: <002901c07051$4884d2a0$59ac003e@default> Message-ID: <92dq9p+mhgn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7918 Maya wrote: "Also, I don't remember who menntioned a game called something like 'Mystery at Hogwarts' - but I'd also like to hear about that...;-) "Thanks!" Well I can tell you about if you really want to know.I've played it twice so I am really and expert Firstly the board is all wrong. The centre of the board is the Entrance Hall and there is no outside door! I know that it is a game and they weren't exactly going for accuracy but- Secondly, to make it really simple the game is a lot like Clue. You have to figure out Who conjured what and in what room/class. You move about the board to make guesses and when you do the other players have to show you one of their card is they have one of the cards that you guessed. Then to make an accusation you go to Fluffy's folder and if you get it right you win and if you get it wrong you're out. Fluffy's folder is where you put the chosen cards. Erm, I don't think that I did a very good job exlaining it, like I said it's just like clue. Scott From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 27 22:26:07 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:26:07 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks References: Message-ID: <00d201c07055$20e54000$c4c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7919 I think he has McGonagall with him to keep things straight. hehe catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Nathan Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 27 december 2000 02:14 ?mne: RE: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks >Dumbledore's is not lonely - he has Snape to keep him warm at night. Aiiiieeieieieieieiieieieieieieieee!!!! Thank you for that wonderful mental image... lessee, where did I put that summoning giant whiffle bat charm.... Nathan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 22:45:30 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:45:30 +0200 Subject: H/H H/R or whatever combination... Message-ID: <002f01c07056$b9a6f940$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7920 Okay, now I about this one I KNOW you've discussed it over and over again, howeverm since I;m new, I;ll please innocence and comment to the following: >together >> >at the Burrow for wonderful family holidays. It's just so perfect! >> >To me it's like the pieces of a puzzle fitting together - sure, you >> >can force pieces into other places, but the picture doesn't end up >> >nearly as pretty. Okay, the thing is, only in book 3 I really strated thinking serious which combination I'd prefer. On one hand, I sympathize more with Hermione and Ron. On other hand, although Ginny;s ok, I don't want Harry to get anyone who isn't perfect. Okay, Hermione is not perfect, but she'd fit Ron, we all see WHY, even those who think she should be with Harry. maybe she should, I mean, thye are both more sophisticated in the way they plan things , and Ron's hardly ever takes part in the planning stage. which is a pitty btw, coz I think he's capable of doing this just as well. back to my original point. In the perfect world - I'd have the 3 together. This brings me to the conclusion that what's most important for me in these heros'future, is not that any of them fall inlove with eachother, but rather that they remain the good fridnds and team that they are, very much like Harry's Dad & Co. THAT didn't disturb James marrying Lily, who wasn't one of the 4, but was apparantly in the general big "Good guys" group. the best for me would be that in their 20s they stay together, (whatever they do) and when they DO marry, still work together in something very important, maybe secret. as much as I like the idea of Ron and Hermione being together, I''d hate to see Harry "outside" as it were. After all, (and Ia m now speaking to all Ron & Hermione fans) - we still read the books a lot because of Harry. He needs his friends , I think more than they need him. Does anyone else think that they should all marry seperate people? Hope I;m not TOOOO repetative.... Maya >Subject: Tidbits of Snapeness, and Peter's strength > >upon Neville's parents during his "spying" days, which >imprinted on Neville's brain (perhaps he was there >during the attack when he was only 2 years old, or the >like), and that has pre-disposed Neville against >Snape, whether he realizes that's why he acts like a >git in the class or not (melting cauldrons, etc...)...> > >Dumbledore said at Karkaroff's trial (I forget the chapter number - 'The >Pensieve') that Snape had become a spy *before* Voldemort fell. The Longbottoms >were attacked afterwards, because Crouch Jr. and Co. were trying to find out >where Voldemort, who had already fallen, was currently located. > >turned spy. How do we know that he wasn't a spy for dumbledore to begin >with? Remember, Dumbledore knows stuff that the Ministry didn't know. And >someone said that even all of Voldies followers didn't even know who each >other were. Therefore, i conclude that it is entirely possible for snape >not to be a bad guy at all.> > >Again, at Karkaroff's trial, Dumbledore said that Snape had been a Death Eater >before turning back to the good guys. > > >"You know, many fan fic writers act as if Peter was merely a >tag-a-long, not as good at magic as James, Sirius and Lupin, >not "really" one of the four, almost sort of resented. I think this >diminishes the fact of his betrayal. It seems to be a sort of >squeamishness/reluctance to claim Peter as "one of us"--because it's >too scarey to imagine that someone you have totally accepted and >considered one of your team could have betrayed you." > >Ebony said: > >Interesting observation. Over the holiday I thought about the >significance of Peter's name. The Biblical Peter wasn't on >the fringes of things; he was a leader amongst the Twelve... and yet >he betrayed Christ. This is also why Ron is not immune to fulfilling >this role in his generation... because he *is* trusted.> > >Quite apart from the Ron-the-traitor debate, Peter is portrayed as a weakling >for two reasons apart from squeamishness: > >1. McGonagall says in the Hogsmeade conversation that Peter wasn't in the 'same >league as Potter and Black, talent-wise', and that she was 'often quite harsh >with him' for that reason. If you'll notice, she's also quite harsh with >Neville, who doesn't exactly have a lot of aptitude in Transfig (or much of >anything else, for that matter, although my theory is that it's more a block >coming from fear of what happened to his more-than-competent-parents or simple >lack of self-esteem than a lack of talent...but I digress), which sort of makes >people think of Peter as a less likable version of Neville, coupled with the >sqeamishness. > >2. Lupin states that Peter needed all the help he could get from James and >Sirius to become an Animagus. > >This isn't to say that he's as useless as a lot of people seem to think he is, >just not very brilliant, either. And I don't think he was on the fringes at all >- I doubt Sirius, James, and Lupin are really the elitist-genius type, and so >there's no real reason for them to have excluded him. > >~Firebolt > >Kassie Ostrander wrote: > >> Hello, i hope everyone is having happy holidays and is keeping up with HP >> news.... Has anyone tried the Everyflavor Betts Beans? I can't find them >> here in Michigan. >> >> Oh i had a point/ Everyone makes Snape out to be in Voldies inner circle >> turned spy. How do we know that he wasn't a spy for dumbledore to begin >> with? Remember, Dumbledore knows stuff that the Ministry didn't know. And >> someone said that even all of Voldies followers didn't even know who each >> other were. Therefore, i conclude that it is entirely possible for snape >> not to be a bad guy at all. >> >> VOX ET PRAETEREA NIHIL >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 24 > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:45:58 -0000 > From: "Keith Fraser" >Subject: Hello from a new member > >Hi! I'm Keith (some of you might know me from the Paradigm of >Uncertainty and HP FanFiction eGroups as the author of Ginny The >Vampire Slayer), an 18 year old British student. I'm also currently >listening to Book 1 being read out on the radio - believe it or not, >they're airing the whole thing, unabridged, in one go! > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 25 > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:47:18 EDT > From: "voicelady" >Subject: Re:HP Merchandise for Christmas > >I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > > > > From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Dec 27 22:49:29 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:49:29 -0000 Subject: Ron - relationships - J & L's jobs In-Reply-To: <92atkp+sdk7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92drlp+n51o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7921 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > It's quite all right - I'm glad I don't stand completely alone! Not at all; while the various shippers have some really good arguments for their viewpoints, I figure JKR will still take the simple approach. > And also maybe we're forcing real life onto fiction, which can be > deadly. As I said, I'd be a no-shipper if this was the real world, as> I'd rather real kids become adults before choosing their lifelong > mates. Very good point. I agree with this, as well. > See above about imposing reality onto fiction, and also nearly every > romantic comedy ever made to support my feeling that the bickering is > just the immature minds way of masking deeper feelings that they are > not yet ready to deal with. I don't think it >indicates an unhealthy > relationship at all. Right, I think these kids are not very mature yet, though Herm is doing pretty well, but the next few books will certainly show a change in them. > I'm hoping and praying that that's what she's going for, since she's > created characters that I've grown to love so. The only reason for my > stance is that I honestly think that it gives *all* of the characters > the chance to be Happy Ever After. Yes, we may not see the 'ever after' part, but I do think the kids will live. > I also think that her kindness to Neville (and her admonishing Harry > and Ron not to make light of him) speaks very well of her. That> solidified in my mind that she is going to eventually be proven worthy> of Harry's love. Harry and Ron and even Hermione have not given the> boy enough credit in the past, but she stood up for him. She needs > some more development, but I already quite like her. Absolutely. She may not ever be a star the way the trio are, but I just cannot believe we won't see her more fleshed out by the end. Kelley From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 27 22:52:03 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:52:03 -0000 Subject: Happy endings/Death? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001227111654.00b85ae0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <92drqj+djdu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7922 Dave wrote: "Or perhaps JKR could take the Louisa May Alcott route and preclude any post-book VII sequels by writing a hasty and distinctly tear-jerking epilogue finishing off Harry's life in summary, along these lines (*Marginal* apologies to Alcott): "Harry never married, but lived, bravely and usefully, among his chosen people [Muggle-borns, werewolves, and half-giants], till he was Avada Kedavra-ed while defending them, and at last lay quietly asleep in the Wizard's wilderness he loved so well, with a lock of Cho's hair upon his breast, and a smile on his face which seemed to say that the greatest Auror of the century had fought his last fight and was at peace. And now, having endevored to suit everyone by many weddings, few deaths, and as much prosperity as the eternal ebbs and flows of magic will permit, let the incantations stop, the wands die out, and the curtain fall FOREVER [Got that, Time-Warner?] on the boy wizard with the remarkable scar." But let's hope that by the end of the series JKR is not disgusted enough to be tempted to embrace a conclusion *that* depressing!" While JKR and LMA are not the same, I have always liked LMA and so it is ok in my mind. I don't want this to happen mind you but- Your post reminded me of a post from back in our "Yahoo!" days. It was posted by a Dave too. Was this you? "Hopefully, she'd at least tell us what Harry and his friends did in their professions, whom they married, etc. before she ended it by declaring, 'And now having endevoured to suit everyone by many weddings, few deaths, and as much prosperity as the eternal fitness of wizardry will permit, let the music stop, the lights die out, and curtain fall forever on Harry Potter, the great wizard with the amazing scar." (Apologies toLouisa May Alcott.) :)" Scott From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Wed Dec 27 23:00:13 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 01:00:13 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Karkaroff Message-ID: <003601c07058$c6ac7dc0$59ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7923 >Again, at Karkaroff's trial, Dumbledore said that Snape had been a Death Eater >before turning back to the good guys. About Karkaroff - I was wondering. Okay, so he got off the hook after being first caught, but I still don't see how anyone would let him run a sCHOOl. judging form Dumbledore, the greatest wizard of them all - runnong a wizard's school is one of th most homourable things to do. Who made Karkaroff a headmaster anywya? even if he had "turned good"? >Hi! I'm Keith (some of you might know me from the Paradigm of >Uncertainty and HP FanFiction eGroups as the author of Ginny The >Vampire Slayer) The VAMPIRE SLAYER???????????? :-) This is getting really too strange... >, an 18 year old British student. I'm also currently >listening to Book 1 being read out on the radio - believe it or not, >they're airing the whole thing, unabridged, in one go! > I wish I could have heard that. there IS a way to get BBC round here, but we don't get the programme listings, and I asusme it's obtainable on the net,but I don't really have the time to look at that , specially not on a daily basis... From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Dec 27 22:51:42 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:51:42 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise for Christmas... References: <92bok2+m4ai@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <012a01c07058$0cdcbe00$c4c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7924 Here they sell some posters only as far as I could look. I haven't been to the SF book store yet, it's the most likely place to sell some merchandise. Needless to say I haven't got any HP things for Christmas. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kaitlin Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 27 december 2000 04:45 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise for Christmas... I got a lovely HP bookend (just one, I don't really use bookends, so it makes a cool figurine for my room). I also got a Hermione StoryScope, a light-up pen, and some stickers in my stocking. Today I bought myself the student planner! Umm, folks, I accidentally erased all the votes from my HP merchandise poll, so if you would wander on over to the poll section and vote again, that would be awesome. Hope everyone had a very Harry Christmas! ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rohleder" wrote: > I got the Nimbus ornament. :) > > At least I got that much....smiles. > > I can get myself the rest, perhaps at better prices than they were offering at the escalated prices right before Christmas! :) > ************************************************************ > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > ************************************************************ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carole Estes > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 4:12 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ebony " > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > > > I didn't receive a single HP item! Everybody is already cowed by > > the size of my collection and was afraid to buy me anything, because > > they were unsure of what I did and didn't have. On the other hand, > > my husband and I received some lovely handpainted end tables! > > > > Hi Voicelady and all: > > > > I thought I was the only one! No, I didn't get HP stuff for > > Christmas, either. My best gift IMO was a Winnie the Pooh chocolate > > set for two... one of my students gave me that. The rest was > > practical, grownup stuff. :( Glad to see that Scott, Penny, and > > others had very Harry Christmases, though. > > > > Since half of my friends/family thinks my HP obsession is a weird > > passing childhood-regression phase (including my sweetheart), and the > > other half thinks the books are literally and figuratively sinful, of > > course I can't count on any of them to get me stuff like that. > > That's why this working girl has built up her collection on her own. > > Piece... by... piece! > > I'm sorry to hear about your serious gift misfortunes Ebony and Jeralyn.... > > I, on the other hand, didn't get anything that wasn't Harry Potter...well, I > did get one thing for my husband that I shared that wasn't HP, but I'm not > telling you guys about it! > > Let's see I got: > > GoF and PoA on tape (my first opportunity to hear the books on tape) > HP Trivia Game > Mystery at Hogwarts Game > Set of 3 Journals (in which my first draft of ASA will now be written rather > than the skanky spiral notebooks I've been using) > HP Stationary set > The puzzle with Harry and Hagrid going to Harry's Gringotts Vault. > > Then I got my 7yo > A Gringotts Bank (gotta try to get him to save) > A Hogwarts Journal that guides you to recording various memories > > So it was a very Harry Christmas for me, and given I had gotten myself > almost no HP merchandise before this I feel like I'm catching up. > > YAY! BTW I enjoyed the Mystery at Hogwarts game. Brian and I played it > this morning...Harry administered a sleeping potion in the Herbology > classroom! > > carole > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 23:27:48 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:27:48 -0000 Subject: H/H H/R or whatever combination... In-Reply-To: <002f01c07056$b9a6f940$59ac003e@default> Message-ID: <92dttk+t4oi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7925 Hi, Maya and all-- Someone recently wrote in the ship debate: "...all of them together at the Burrow for wonderful family holidays. It's just so perfect! To me it's like the pieces of a puzzle fitting together - sure, you can force pieces into other places, but the picture doesn't end up nearly as pretty." This is exactly why I started writing "Trouble in Paradise". I began the serial at one of those perfect post-canon Weasley holiday celebrations... and I'm just letting the writing carry me along. Needless to say, what sound great in theory can be quite different than in practice. BTW, Ch. 3, "Boxing Day", has been posted at ff.net for anyone who's following the story. The URL is: http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=154118 My rationale for writing this particular fic? I can show you better than I can tell you why R/H isn't going to necessarily be all rainbows and teddy bears and sunshine. No real-world relationship is, and judging from the canon, it doesn't follow that any future dealings these characters have with each other will be idyllic. I'm trying to follow certain character traits I see in all of the characters to their logical conclusion... and it's scary. (laughing) Maya wrote: "Does anyone else think that they should all marry separate people?" If H/H is a future impossibility, yes! (j/k) Ship preference aside for a moment, I think the rational thing would be for all three to find love elsewhere. Making sure, of course, that the spouses are *very* understanding people who realize that the friendship of the Triad is completely platonic... yet in some ways, perhaps even emotionally deeper than any physically intimate relationships could ever be. If they could find such people, then yes, I think that would be best. Or maybe they could move to one of those societies that practice polyandry. Hermione could have two husbands (or three for the Draco fans) and the three biggest ship camps would be happy. Or maybe JKR will kill Hermione off before the canon close. Or maybe JKR will write an epilogue that tells us exactly what happens to each character from the end of Year 7 until the day they die. (Highly unlikely, I'll admit.) Some of our members have in the past proposed perpetual celibacy for Harry. Penny and others have countered that idea with some intriguing points that I tend to agree with. But has anyone ever thought of perpetual celibacy for all three? That would make the no- shippers who want to line all us hopeless romantics up against a wall and leave us to the mercy of a firing squad very happy. You know, it would *really* serve us right if all three died in Book 7. But then, knowing some of you, you'd then begin your fics and theories with "All of a sudden, Harry woke up and realized it was just a dream. Voldemort had been defeated, the wizarding world was saved, and all were free to live their lives according to the whims of HP fanatics with too much time on their hands." ;) In that case, count me among their numbers. --Ebony From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 23:39:39 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:39:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7926 >I still say that the 5 yr statement cannot be taken to mean that Bill >was last at Hogwarts as a student 5 years ago (making him 23 in GoF). >He's visiting Hogwarts then (in GoF) as an alumni, so if 5 years later, >he comes back & makes the statement that it's been 5 yrs since he last >saw Hogwarts, it wouldn't be right to conclude that he'd only been out >of school 5 years in that case. See the logic or am I rambling? He >could have visited Hogwarts as an alumni 5 yrs prior to GoF. > >Pennybut why 5 years ago? I mean, the twins would have been in their 1st >year, so he wouldnt have been coming to watch them play Quidditch, and >Percy would have been in his 3rd year, but he didnt play Quidditch. This >always confised me a lot....bc I want to know what he was doing there... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Dec 27 23:36:57 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:36:57 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy endings/Death? References: <92bmim+qkon@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002b01c0705e$4c3bd440$252c7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7927 > Snape, on the other hand, is possibly acting as a double agent, always a risky job, and is *not* on Voldemort's good books anyway, to put it mildly. The rest of them don't have enough pagetime for me to suspect one way or the other. I actually do hope she tells us more about them, especially the perennially mentioned but never very present professors Sinistra and Vector. Yes, I agree with you about the pagetime thing. JKR has said that the next death will be upsetting, devastating, even. So it's got to be someone whose head we've got inside. Otherwise it won't really devastate us. *** GOF POSSIBLE SPOILER *** Cedric's death made me feel shocked but not as sad as if I really felt I knew who he was or his abscence would make a massive difference to how I felt. Just my two pence-worth !! Michelle From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 23:47:44 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:47:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7928 >So where are the other Griffindor boys Harry's age? Of course we only meet >a handful of students due to the limitations of space and attention. But >it >does seem that there are only 5 Griffindor boys in Harry's year--him and >his >4 roommates. It says several times that the other Griffidor boys in Harrys class are Neville, Seamus, Dean, and Ron. Maybe Hogwarts is set up so that Slytherin and Griffindor are the hardest to get into, and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw have more students... In CoS though, when Griffidore 2nd years have Herbology with the Hufflepuffs, there are about 20 pairs of earmuffs meaning that there are about 20 student with the two groups combined. the 5 griffindor boys, plus the 3 girls that we know about (Lavender Brown, Parvati Patil, and Hermione) equals 7, leaving Hufflepuff with about 12 students in that grade.(prof. Sprout needs earmuffs too.) I guess that could work, but it leaves ravenclaw having a lot of people in Harry's grade... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From nlpnt at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 00:04:28 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:04:28 -0000 Subject: Ages? Copyright-date-based dating In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92e02c+k4bg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7929 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, that > someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes no > sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry. Personally, I prefer to ignore the "Deathday Party Dating" and assume that the main storyline of PS/SS takes place in 1997 (the original copyright date), and Harry was born in 1986. Thus; 1945; Dumbledore defeats Grindelwald, returning to Hogwarts shortly after. 1948; Chamber of Secrets opened. 1976; Voldy begins to gather power. c.1979; MWPP plus Lily graduate Hogwarts. 1979-86; This period gives J&L time to make their money, settle down and get married, before; July 31, 1986; Harry is born Late 1987; Major badness happens. J&L dead, Sirius imprisoned, Pettigrew "rats himself out", Harry winds up in Dursleyland. c. 1996; Sony introduces PlayStation in North Am.& Europe. Dudley, of course, has one of the first. Sep. 1997; Harry begins Hogwarts. Summer 2000; Dinky Duddydums defenestrates his abovementioned PlayStation. Bets now open on whether Vern& Petunia bought him a PS2 to replace it. The only thing with this is, of course, how DO you explain Nearly Headless Nick? OK, the "only thing", um, aside from the fact that as I write this, it puts about half of GoF in the future (Cedric Diggory lives! For now at least...) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 28 00:07:28 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 27 Dec 2000 16:07:28 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of students Message-ID: <20001228000728.28044.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7930 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 00:09:00 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:09:00 -0000 Subject: Ages? Copyright-date-based dating In-Reply-To: <92e02c+k4bg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92e0as+hrir@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7931 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > Personally, I prefer to ignore the "Deathday Party Dating" and assume that the main storyline of PS/SS takes place in 1997 (the original copyright date), and Harry was born in 1986. The only thing with this is, of course, how DO you explain Nearly Headless Nick? > OK, the "only thing", um, aside from the fact that as I write this, > it puts about half of GoF in the future (Cedric Diggory lives! For > now at least...) Interesting. So by your dating, the Yule Ball occurred day before yesterday? --Ebony (who really ought to get offline now) From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 28 00:13:42 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 01:13:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Petunia References: <92ckm5+443l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <027801c07064$10393900$c4c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7932 Am I the only one thinking aunt Petunia could be a witch? I think she is but wouldn't admit it. That makes her 'overmuggling' it sometimes. I think she is the person that knows why Harry has to be with the Dursleys. Maybe you discussed this ages ago but I have neither time noe the money(for the xtra internet bill) to read all the old messages. catrina [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 00:40:15 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:40:15 -0000 Subject: MORE about HP gifts... In-Reply-To: <002901c07051$4884d2a0$59ac003e@default> Message-ID: <92e25f+nnvd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7933 > > Also, I don't remember who menntioned a game called something like "mystery > at Hogwarts" - but I'd also like to hear about that...;-) > > Thanks! > Maya Maya, I got the game for my cousin's sons, and (happily) they insisted that we play it. It is, as some have said, almost exactly like Clue, but with several clever things adapted from other games like Monopoly and Sorry. There are quite a few more places than in Clue, including most of the classrooms and the library and great hall. For some reason on the character cards Draco and either Goyle or Crabbe (can't quite remember) are only in sillhouette, while the others have drawings of the characters. Some of the clever touches: -The person who's birthday is closest to Harry's gets to go first, according to the rules. -There is a ghost figure on the board. You can either move your own playing piece, or the ghost, or split your roll and move them both. Players cannot pass the ghost, so it is used to block other players. Also, if the ghost lands directly on someone's game peice, they are sent back to the beginning and must show one of their cards to the player who moved the ghost. -There are 'Hogwarts cards'. The # 1 was replaced on the dice with a little H symbol so that if you roll one of these, you get to pick a Hogwarts card. Some cards are sort of like in monopoly, where it will say something like: you learned a new potion, you may do such-and-such. The best of these is the invisibility cloak card, as when you have this card, the ghost cannot block you. From these cards you can also draw the secret passageways (like in Clue). They are not accessible until someone draws the card for them and places them on the board. At first I thought the game was going to be a little too complicated for my cousin's boys, who are 9 and 10, but after struggling through it once, the second time they really had picked up on it and were getting into strategizing. And even my niece, who's 17 and refuses to have anything to do with Harry Potter because she doesn't like all the hype, was watching by the end of the first game and played with us in the second game. Her comment? "This is the coolest game - it's Clue, it's Sorry - how come they didn't have this when I was little?" I had to bite my tongue to quit while I was ahead and not try and foist the books on her. Hope that makes a little sense, at least, kimberly From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 28 00:36:13 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 01:36:13 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Professor Sinistra's subject References: <010f01c07009$0b0a12c0$152e07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <02cc01c07068$68785480$c4c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 7934 But in her books it isn't real, pagan Magic JKR is talking about, its more the fairy tale or fantasy kind, anyway it's hugely exaggerated IMO. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Dinah Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 27 december 2000 14:29 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Professor Sinistra's subject was Happy endings/Death? > Which allows me a segue into the question: Why the heck is Astronomy so > important as a first year subject? The only magical use I can see is > Astronomy as a pre-requisite course for Divination. In esoterical believes, Magic is focusing personal energy, and sometimes it's easier, sometimes it's harder. Some spells work better on a full moon, and so on. I guess it's the same principle here, you have to know your way with the stars beacuse they are relevant to performing magic. BTW, do they have flying classes only in their first year? Dinah eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 01:10:23 2000 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Stephanie ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 01:10:23 -0000 Subject: Petunia In-Reply-To: <027801c07064$10393900$c4c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <92e3tv+tijl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7935 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > Am I the only one thinking aunt Petunia could be a witch? I think she is but wouldn't admit it. That makes her 'overmuggling' it sometimes. I think she is the person that knows why Harry has to be with the Dursleys. Well, I don't think she knows, necessarily, but at the end of GoF Dumbledore mentions Arabella Figg (and I'm sure this has been pondered, too), who *happens* to have the same surname as the woman who Harry had to spend time with when the Dursleys were out... So, I'm betting that Mrs. Figg (probably Arabella, the 'good' witch) knows why Harry has to be with the Dursleys. Personally, I like the idea of Petunia absolutely hating her sister Lily for being better at magic than she... It would be great motivation for her to be a wizard-hating Muggle, plus the added pain of having to raise Lily's wizard son. It would be enough (if you're crazy like Petunia seems to be) to make life hell for Harry, kind of like how Snape doesn't want to treat Harry well because of the way James (and co.) treated him (Snape) at school. Minn From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Dec 28 01:22:13 2000 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:22:13 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wanted! Message-ID: <95.4cdaf1d.277befc5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7936 In a message dated 12/27/2000 7:43:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << Try ebay! I would think the Hallmark stores will restock at least some of this merchandise, although they may not restock Christmas ornaments at this point. If not, I'd go with ebay or one of the other auction sites. Or, try & find a friend who can get one at their Hallmark. Penny >> That is a good idea. Tho I've seen a lot of HP stuff on Ebay going for a lot more than it is really worth:( ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 02:36:51 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 02:36:51 -0000 Subject: HP Merchandise for Christmas In-Reply-To: <3A4A5FCE.A6E3C41C@texas.net> Message-ID: <92e903+lmkq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7937 Amanda wrote: "Okay, guys, everyone who got doubles of anything, pack 'em up and ship 'em to Dinah and Storm. We'll call it Project Sympathy (sounded just *oodles* better than Project Whiner....)" I didn't get doubles but I would gladly send you my Enesco plastic stones. However I doubt anybody would actually pay to ship them. Not to mention I keep putting them in my mouth and wanting to eat them. (They look exactly like Jolly Rancher candies!) Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 02:39:15 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:39:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror References: Message-ID: <3A4AA7D3.F1408AB2@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7938 Hi -- Stephanie Becvar wrote: > Penny but why 5 years ago? I mean, the twins would have been in their > 1st year, so he wouldnt have been coming to watch them play Quidditch, > and Percy would have been in his 3rd year, but he didnt play > Quidditch. This always confised me a lot....bc I want to know what he > was doing there... He could have been at an alumni event 5 years prior to GoF. He could have made a trip to revisit his old stomping grounds before leaving for Egypt. Various things he could have been doing. Think about it this way. If Bill graduated 5 yrs prior to GoF, then Charlie must have graduated the year before Harry et al arrive at Hogwarts. Yet, Gryffindor hadn't won the House Cup in 7(?) yrs and hadn't won the Quidditch Cup in 8 yrs from PoA (I think). If Charlie was such an all-star Quidditch player, why would they have lost the cup all those years while he was playing for them? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 02:41:55 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:41:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? References: <92dq9h+7qmt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4AA873.74F2B9A0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7939 Hi -- Emerald7586 at aol.com wrote: > I was just rereading SS and on the second page it says "Mrs. Potter > was Mrs. Dursley's sister, but they hadn't met for several years..." > This means that if we assume the last time Petunia had seen Lily was > before Petunia was married and Lily was still a minor and living at > their parents house Lily probably did get married young and have > Harry since she would have had to do that in the space of several > years. But, we don't know which sister was older or younger, do we? Lily might have been older. I just think they hadn't seen each other in several years, and it doesn't seem important to me to try & figure out whether Lily was still at school the last time they saw each other since we don't know the sibling order. > The Dursleys had never seen Harry either, so he was probably > born within the space of those few years. Well, definitely. Harry was born 31 July 1981 (under most accepted timelines) and Dudley was born in May or thereabouts of the same year. So, Dudley & Harry are pretty much the same age. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 02:36:20 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:36:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? Copyright-date-based dating References: <92e02c+k4bg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4AA723.87589890@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7940 Hi -- nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: > Personally, I prefer to ignore the "Deathday Party Dating" and assume > that the main storyline of PS/SS takes place in 1997 (the original > copyright date), and Harry was born in 1986. Curious why you would "ignore" the DeathDay party dating since that's the most solid evidence of the timeline in question? The only real inconsistency with the Deathday date is NHH's statement that he hasn't eaten in nearly 400 yrs (SS/PS), if he's been dead 500 years according to CoS. But, I still think this is the most firm evidence of dating. Using the 1997 date is odd IMO too since the book wasn't written in 1997, it was merely copyrighted that year. The draft was completed sometime in 1995 according to JKR interviews. > c. 1996; Sony introduces PlayStation in North Am.& Europe. Dudley, of > course, has one of the first. Dursley doesn't have a playstation until GoF though, and under your timeline, he would wait 4 years to use his new playstation. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 28 03:37:50 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:37:50 -0500 Subject: Hermione, the Queen of Hogwarts (filk) References: <95.4cdaf1d.277befc5@aol.com> Message-ID: <001e01c0707f$8eb10fe0$f2dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 7941 Hermione, the Queen of Hogwarts (to the tune of Lydia The Tattooed Lady) (The Scene: The Gryffindor common room. Enter HARRY POTTER, NEVILLE LONGBOTTOM, GEORGE, FRED and RON WEASLEY, all sporting greasepaint mustaches and carrying large cigars. They gather round the piano, at which Dean Thomas performs). ALL: Hermione, Hermione, we say without irony Hermione, the queen of libraries GW: Her IQ shatters every record FW: Her brain was designed by Hewlett-Packard ALL: Hermione, Hermione, sing we 'round the piany Hermione, the queen of Hogwarts NL: She's read every book on the library shelves HP: Her test scores now average one hundred and twelve RW & FW: She's the founder of SPEW who will free all the elves ALL: She does know it all, that Hermione! La la la la la la, etc. HP & RW: While out on a stroll she once strayed 'cross a troll And so she became our friend in need GW & FW: She's been turned into stone, trapped in the mer-people's zone NL & HP: But for her we would gladly eat gillyweed ALL: Hermione, Hermione, stamp her face on the ha'penny, Hermione the queen of Hogwarts FW: Someday she'll be our Valedictorian RW & GW: Bringing glory to all of Gryffindorean ALL: Hermione, Hermione, may we ask with proprieny, On who will you bestow your heart? NL: Will Harry to your charms eventually succumb? GW & FW: Will this greatest of honors go to Viktor Krum? ALL (except RW): And as for Ron Weasley, won't he feel dumb If he loses the hand of Hermione? La La La La La, etc RW: She can whip up a mean batch of Polyjuice GW & FW: She helps Neville whenever he's all obtuse NL: She's a bulwark against Voldy's comin' doom HP: She can teach you a spell that will summon brooms NL: If there's a question in class, her hand shoots up HP: She assists Hagrid to nail all his Skrewts up GW & FW: She got Pomfrey to jazz with her dentals RW: So at the Yule Ball she was pure dazzlementals ALL: Hermione, Hermione, we all say without ennui Hermione, the queen of Hogwarts HP & NL: She used the time turner to gain extra bounce RW & FW: She forced Rita Skeeter her ways to renounce ALL: Weren't we ever glad once we learned to pronounce The tongue-twisting name of Hermione! La La La La La La HP: I said Her-my-oh-nee GW: He said Hermy-one NL: He said Herm-own-ninny HP & RW: We said Her-MY-on-e (they simultaneously light their cigars, which - since they were provided by Fred and George - all promptly explode) ALL: La La! - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 03:55:59 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:55:59 -0600 Subject: Origins of the "Farmer in the Dell" theory... References: <92dj3i+gmr4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4AB9CF.6D25B72F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7942 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > ...and learned that she spotted the Farmer in the Dell situation as > early as post-CoS. She calls it a "square", which may be more > appropriate. Thanks for the link to this site Ebony -- it was a treat to read this theory expounded in the pre-PoA days. Adds support to my argument that it *is* there, it just requires one to look carefully at the subtext. :--) > --Ebony (who doesn't know when to let an overbeaten topic die) Penny, who's right there with you on this one! P.S. If anyone hasn't yet ventured over to fanfiction.net to check out Ebony's ongoing serial "Trouble in Paradise," I can highly recommend it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Dec 28 03:57:16 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:57:16 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ships Ahoy/Happy Anniversary/500 Members! Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDF9@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7943 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ebony [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] > > > You are living, walking proof of a theory I presented earlier this > week here. I proposed that most avid Annefans (like you and I) lean > R/H. At least, the ones I know do. H/H is almost like Anne marrying > Roy Gardner... whereas Ron is more Gil-like in that he's the "boy > next door" type right now. > You know, I'd managed not to lean towards any pairing, until that paragraph. Plus, I'm in the midst of rereading GoF, just after the ball, and R/H is really making sense now. Ron doesn't know it, but Hermione is clueing in. And yes, I'm an Anne fan too. Your theory confirmed my growing feelings towards R/H. I'd join Kindred Spirits but I'm already drowning in e-mail. I had to move this list to my work account so I wouldn't get overwhelmed at home. Which means I've spent my spare time today catching up on 280 + e-mails because I had the last 4 days off. So scribble me down as a R/H shipper. Angela "Didn't get one HP item for the holidays, but I got Barbies!" Boyko From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 07:34:38 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 02:34:38 -0500 Subject: Motorbike, PS vs PoA Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7944 Hi all, I'm brand new to the list, so I apologize if I'm covering old territory. I notice a contradiction between the things Hagrid says about Sirius and his motorcycle in PS (I'm American but I think it was dumb to change the title so I'll stick with calling it PS) and PoA. In chapter 1 of book 1, after bringing Harry to Privet Drive, he tells Dumbledore and McGonagall that he has to get Sirius's motorbike back to him. But in chapter ? of book 3 (the scene in the 3 Broomsticks where Harry first learns that Sirius [supposedly] betrayed his parents--sorry, I don't own the books [sniff] so can't give a page number!) Hagrid says that when he first saw Sirius at the wreckage of the Potters' house, Sirius told him to take the motorbike and that he wouldn't be needing it anymore. This gets particular emphasis because Hagrid thinks, looking back, that he should've taken it as a clue that Sirius was up to something. (We, having finished the book and knowing Sirius is innocent, can take it as a sign of grief instead.) Okay, so what do you think--is this just an error on JKR's part or a clue? If the latter, to what? Any ideas, anyone? Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Dec 28 04:28:31 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 04:28:31 -0000 Subject: Shippers, Happy Endings & Related Topics / Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A49318D.6C32A9A3@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92efhf+9suk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7945 An aside to Carole to start: I bought myself the trivia game, thought the board was torn, , but sadly I have no fellow fans to play with... <:o( I suppose there will be a version for each book? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >>>Hmmm ..... I'm not so sure that even if R & H date in Book 5 that it can> be assumed that they are "right" & the H/H contingent is "wrong." We> won't know anything at all until the series is over ... and maybe not> even then, eh? Personally, I hope it's left ambiguous at the end ("Will> Hermione get back together with Ron (they had a spat & split up in Book> 6)?" "Will Hermione instead declare her true love for Harry?" "Will> Harry finally see Ginny as a woman?") -- then all the shippers can> happily create fanfic to suit their preference for eternity! <<<<< I half-think JKR will leave things ambiguous. It's part of my thinking that she won't go too in-depth with the relationhips. >>>I'm with Cassie on this one (as she well knows). In the case of R/H, I> think the fact that Ron's interest is so over-the-top, you'd have to be> really thick to miss it -- people *assume* that Hermione is likewise> interested. When I read the books, I think it's much clearer that> Hermione has her cap set on Harry, not Ron. And, like Cassie, I hate> the "consolation prize" arguments.<<<<< Actually, I don't see any evidence how Herm feels. I don't assume she returns Ron's feelings, but I don't know that she doesn't either. With Harry, I see Herm as just very compassionate and empathic towards what Harry has been through and is going through. She empathizes with Ron, too; at least she sees his side and what his demons are. But, I don't see the evidence that the H/H shippers do that says she fancies Harry. (It's been too long, Penny; remind me of your points again...) >>Bravo! I think that's an excellent point. Agreed -- Molly wasn't upset> because Hermione had chosen Harry over her son Ron -- she was upset> because she thought Hermione wasn't treating Harry properly.<<< Did someone really think that? I always saw Mrs. W's cold shoulder/snubbing of Herm as no more than point of evidence that *people* (at least Mrs. W) were believing Skeeter's story. Never occurred to me that some could see this as Mrs. W displaying pique that Herm liked Harry instead of her ickle Ronnikins. > Susan wrote: > > > After Ron pitches a jealous fit (indicating her interest), she > > suggests that he ask her out first next time. They become oddly > > formal with each other; JKR says something is going on between them. It seems fairly conclusive to me, and I continue to be mystified that> > there is all this hoopla about it. > > >>>Maybe it's just me -- but it seems entirely *too* obvious & pat to me. > Besides, my sister & I had a fight earlier in the year & were "oddly> formal" with each other for several weeks thereafter. I don't think> that's at all an argument in support of Hermione sharing romantic> feelings for Ron. In my mind, all the R/H evidence is just mainly> evidence of Ron's obvious crush -- I have yet to see any points made> that suggest clearly that Hermione has any interest in return. There> are certainly plenty of people who would agree that it sure seems that> Hermione's cap is set on her other best friend! :--) <<<<<<<<< Pat & obvious? Who're they again? I would have agreed with this BEFORE "Lily was in Gryff., naturally..." and PI was just a mistake, etc. I am so disappointed that these weren't tricks JKR had up her sleeve. Leads me to think we're paying more attention, and thinking more complexly about the books than she is. Not that she's making light of her creation, not at all. But she did let a few things slip. Hopefully, this was just due to pressure to get #4 out, and won't come up again. >>>HAPPY ENDINGS -- Kimberly, Kelley & others have posited the idea that> JKR will go for a neat & tidy ending, with everything all tied up in a> bow & everyone blissfully happy. I'm a die-hard romantic -- really I> am. But, I just don't see this "everyone is happy & paired off> perfectly to make one big happy family" theory squaring very well with> JKR's stated pronouncements that the series will get darker as it> progresses.<<<<<<< Okay, well 'happily ever after' is a bit glib. Let's say I see the surviving good guys getting some semblance of happiness in their lives at the end of the series. I can't see JKR leaving everyone in total misery when all is said and done (and I know that's not what you mean). As far as her pronouncements of things getting darker, I'm taking this with a grain of salt. I expect JKR to, if not conclusively pair people off, then to at least give us her patented loaded-sentence, a la The Kiss. She may not go so far as to say this one married that one, etc., but she will likely lead us one way or another. And I still think the Ha/G and R/He pairings are the most likely way she'll go--all my ship theories are based on what I think JKR'll do, not who I most want to end up together. (As to that, I really don't have any strong feelings; whatever JKr does, she does. I might be surprised at the road she takes, but I won't be disappointed, because 'I wanted Herm to go with Ron...' It doesn't matter all that much to me, really.) > I agree that Cedric's death was a bit of a .... what's the word I'm > looking for ... "set-up"? The pre-release interviews sort of gave us> all the impression that someone *important* would die. Not that many of> us didn't care about Cedric to some degree by the end of the book, but> he wasn't an important character at *all* prior to GoF. But, I really> do believe that there will be deaths that will hit us all much more> heavily in the next 3 books. The tone & where she's headed with this> series according to her interviews just doesn't jive with the "everyone> lives & ends up happy ever after" ending that some are envisioning. IMO> anyway. Well, I think it'll be more "hap. ev. aft." than not. If JKR gets to the end and doesn't give some sort of hint about what became of the group, and that they weren't somewhat happy, I'll be truly surprised. She may say 'dark', but really how dark do you think she'll go? There will be more deaths, but how many? Frank Bryce and Cedric are the only on-camera deaths so far, and when I wonder who else we'll lose by the end, the ones concerning me are the 'good guys'. I'd be very surprised if more than three or so are killed. So far, nothing in the books has been that 'scary' to me (of course, my usual reading is Stephen King). I believe Neil(?) mentioned so long ago, that a couple parts were disturbing; this is more my feeling--the DEs having fun levitating the muggle family at the QWC, Pettigrew cutting into Harry's arm on Vold's orders; not exactly frightening to me, but maybe my nine year-old self would think so. I have to admit I'm feverishly curious how JKR will make the story darker... >>>I do *not* subscribe to the "Harry will die at the end of Book 7" school> of thought, but I do think he'll be war-weary & battle- scarred at the> end (I love Dadgrid's fanfic along those lines -- "The Granger> Interview"). Ron & Hermione? Well .... perhaps it is because *she* is> my favorite character but I do have a hard time believing that JKR will> kill Hermione off. If she did, as Lori noted to me once, you'd have 2> male main characters left, which you just don't see much. Of the Trio,> I see Ron as the most likely to die. But, I'm not convinced that he> will die by any means.<<<<< Completely agree. >>>The other main characters are fair game in my mind. Dumbledore seems an> obvious choice -- the mentor of our hero will die by ... probably Book 6> is my prediction. Sirius or Lupin seems a prime target. I hate the> thought but Sirius' death would have a far greater affect on Harry than> the death of Lupin. Because she's said Hagrid is one of her top> favorite characters, he might very well be the "death that> half-crucifies JKR to write about" as she said in an interview awhile> back.<<<<<<<<< Yep, Dumble may be obvious, but I believe that's deliberate. Seriously, who will be shocked when it happens? She's warning us. I agree with your assessment of the effect of Sirius' death on Harry. For this reason, I hope she lets him live. He's the only person Harry has 'all to himself', plus he will be the one to tell Harry about J & L. JKR may not write with an audience in mind, but she knows half her audience are children. I would think she might be concerned how upsetting it could be to kids, for Harry to lose Sirius, after he's already lost his parents. Losing one or both parents must be a big fear to kids; Harry's lost both, and now that he has this surrogate father, he'll lose him too? Seems pretty cruel to me. Of course, she may deliberately go for this pathos, who knows? My strongest guesses for the death that will 'half-crucify' her? Dumble, Lupin, Hagrid. I worry we may lose others as well, but these three seem the strongest contenders to me. I also think if any more students go, it won't be the trio, Neville, Ginny, or Draco. The rest are fair game. Maybe we'll lose one of the Weasleys, hope not though... > But, a happy ending with most all the good guys alive & a festive > Christmas at the Burrow with Mr. & Mrs. Harry Potter & Mr. and Mrs. Ron> Weasley? Sorry -- I just don't buy it. I don't see it like this, either. I do expect rays of hope for the surviving good guys (and for us as well), and, as of now, I'm still putting my money on R/He, Ha/G. I in no way see the ending as maudlin or schmaltzy. By the same token, I don't see the end being gloomily, depressingly dark, either. Somber, but hopeful...? More like that... This concludes my own opus... Bet you guys wish I had stayed lurking, right? Kelley ;o] From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 04:32:06 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:32:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7946 >He could have been at an alumni event 5 years prior to GoF. He could >have made a trip to revisit his old stomping grounds before leaving for >Egypt. Various things he could have been doing. > >Think about it this way. If Bill graduated 5 yrs prior to GoF, then >Charlie must have graduated the year before Harry et al arrive at >Hogwarts. Yet, Gryffindor hadn't won the House Cup in 7(?) yrs and >hadn't won the Quidditch Cup in 8 yrs from PoA (I think). If Charlie >was such an all-star Quidditch player, why would they have lost the cup >all those years while he was playing for them? > >Penny He He, i did think of it that way, one of my prev posts brings that up for the age thing, i think my original age post ;) Stephanie SMiling like a dope _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Dec 28 04:39:52 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:39:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Who died first? References: Message-ID: <009801c07088$38e57980$3378d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7947 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Z" > > Okay, I KNOW this question must've been discussed ad nauseam before I joined > on, but I looked through the archives until my eyes popped out (and still > only got 1/4 of the way through) and can't find it. Feel free to refer me > to an approximate date or message # where it was discussed and I'll go read > what people had to say. > > The question: WHY does James come out of V's wand before Lily, when he died > before she did? Is this a howler of an error or a massive clue to future > revelations? It was a mistake that has been corrected in the most recent printings. There is a copy of the revised text in the files section of the egroup home page. carole From Aprilsong at aol.com Thu Dec 28 06:33:18 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 06:33:18 -0000 Subject: Serious Harry Withdrawal! Message-ID: <92emre+ndmv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7948 I just finished reading all four books again, played all the games I got for Christmas, never missed a question in the trivia game. I need another book and I need it now. Will someone suggest other titles that may keep me happy for the what seems like an unreasonable amount of time until book five arrives? Are there any other witch/wizard/magic type stories out there? From editor at texas.net Thu Dec 28 06:52:04 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:52:04 -0600 Subject: Off-Topic Thank You Note Message-ID: <3A4AE313.7685A5E9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7949 This is totally off-topic, but I was finally writing my Christmas card inserts (Polish folk think the Christmas season lasts until Three Kings, so I'm still covered), and it gave me a small clue why I have loved this list and its discussions so much. In a word, escapism, and here's what I've been escaping from (O Ye Pregnant One, here's what ya got to look forward to....). So Merry Christmas or whatever else you celebrate, marvel as the millennium turns, and thank you all again! --Amanda Card insert text: In partial remuneration for making you all wait so long for your cards, I sat down with our 2000 calendar, its little squares festooned with tiny printing, and sifted out the year's low- and high-lights for your reading pleasure. The tabulation and summaries follow. New teeth15 [9 baby (Michael) 3 adult (Kasia), 3 six-year molars (again Kasia; she started early)] Lost teeth3 [all Kasia (1 of which she swallowed). She made a little tooth-shaped pillow to hold them so the tooth fairy would not have to get squashed looking around under her bed pillow for the tooth. The tooth fairy appreciated that.] Injured teeth2 incidents [stroller fell over with Michael in it; Kasia fell and hit a chair] Repaired teeth1 [Mandy] Child illnesses of several days' duration8 [4 Tomek, 2 Kasia, 2 Michael] Fingers shut in car doors1 incident [Kasia shut it on Tomek, by accident] Adult illnesses2 [Mandy] Adult injuries2 [Jan, wrist & back] Emergency room trips1 [Kasia's meningitis symptoms, thankfully nothing] Surgeries1 [Tomek's ear tubes] Deaths and funerals of friends or family3 [one of which, Mandy's Uncle Walter, was the very last of her immediate older relatives, placing her in the oldest generation of her family at 35, which in her opinion feels very odd.] Births1 [Jan's sister had a baby girl in November, ending Kasia's isolation as the only girl-cousin on his side of the family; she's very excited about this] Major car repairs, straightforward4 Major car repairs involving weeks without the car, small claims action, and consumer complaints1 Regular car services5 Major remodeling projects1 [we finished the bonus room!] Major household repairs, completed1 [A/C, which took up our new kitten money, displeasing Kasia greatly] Major household repairs, put off1 [roof leaks at chimney and louver] Tax arguments with the county, successful1 Vacuum cleaner repair1 VCR repair1 Totally dead still cameras1 [during Michael's first birthday party, no less] Totally dead videocameras1 [during Jan's birthday gathering] Effectively dead cell phones1 Road trips involving at least one parent and one or more kids9 Movies without children1 [just Mandy, her birthday present (Chicken Run)] Dinners without children0 [including our 10th anniversary; we all went to the Magic Time Machine, where the fruit drinks that smoke and bubble (dry ice) were great hits with the kids. A romantic evening all round] Fancy evening out without children1 [Les Miserables] Sleepovers1 [Kasia's first, over at Brandy Vickers'] Michael progressed from learning to creep in January, to running and walking up stairs in December. He's starting to talk, but was arguing his points loudly before there was any verbal content, alas. He had a beach ball cake for his first birthday, in June, which we have no pictures of because that's when the camera died. He's tremendously loud and tremendously stubborn, and luckily for him, tremendously cute. Tomek started speech therapy at the Harry Jersig Center at Our Lady of the Lake in January, and goes twice a week. It seems to be helping; his progress continues slow but steady. After an irritating evaluation procedure by the Floresville school district, involving evaluators at the preschool and the house over several visits, an education plan was designed for him. He started school in special ed in Floresville in August, going half-days so he could continue therapy at the Jersig Center. He got to have three birthday parties in Septemberone at home (Superman cake), one at school (cupcakes with marzipan Superman logos), and one with the therapists at the Center. We put a lot of miles on the car this year, since the school is 15 miles south of our house, and the center is 25 miles north. Kasia turned 5 in June, and had a big party with a smiley face theme. She started kindergarten in August, being homeschooled by Mandy. She's a quick study when she's paying attention, and she's totally intractable otherwise. She started Daisy Scouts in October, and rode on a float with her troop in the Floresville Peanut Festival parade. She was very impressed with the diver from Texas in the Olympics who won the gold, and she wants to be a diver like her Tio when she grows up. From Aprilsong at aol.com Thu Dec 28 07:00:55 2000 From: Aprilsong at aol.com (Leilani Webb) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:00:55 -0000 Subject: Pardon me while I throw a childish fit... Message-ID: <92eof7+8s4j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7950 If there's any group of people who might understand, it's this one. Here goes: I want a wand I want to know what Butter Beer tastes like I want to fly on a broom, learn to apparate, and pet a baby unicorn I want a house elf (paid, of course, if they will accept it.) I want to shop in Diagon Alley I want to travel by Floo Powder I want a Cauldron Cake and some Pumpkin Juice I want all the photos in my albums to move I want to be an animagus (a dove, I think) I want a letter delivered by owl I want to see a real phoenix I want to slip a canary cream to an idiot boss Maybe someday technology will offer a real holideck or Fantasy Island. I'll be the first in line. From catlady at wicca.net Thu Dec 28 07:23:31 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:23:31 -0800 Subject: Ages / Merchandise / Wand Order / Straight / Headmaster Message-ID: <3A4AEA72.44D97E26@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7951 Milz wrote: > Interestingly, Molly (GoF) stated the Fat Lady lectured her for sneaking > into Gryffindor Tower late one night after spending the evening with > Arthur. (snip) Also, I think Arthur is older than Molly. In PS/SS, Ron > tells Harry that his parents were both in Gryffindor. If Arthur and Molly > are the same age (or if both were enrolled at Hogwarts concurrently), then > wouldn't the Fat Lady have caught both of them sneaking into the Tower? No, because Arthur was caught by Filch's predecessor, named Appollyon Pringle. Someone on this list suggested that Arthur had deliberately allowed himself to be caught, so as to gallantly protect Molly. Amanda wrote: > Okay, guys, everyone who got doubles of anything, pack 'em up and ship > 'em to Dinah and Storm. For my birthday back in November, one friend gave me the calendar, which is now on my wall, ready to be used starting Monday, and already have enabled me to complain on this list about the pictures. Another friend gave me the Department 56 box of the Golden Snitch. That was very thoughtful of her, and probably expensive, and I would LOVE to give the Golden Snitch box to the daughter of the list member who mentioned that his daughter got one and the wings both off even tho' she was gentle with it, or to anyone else who wants it. Except for the stamped tin charm/dangle of a broomstick (which I put on my keychain so I can pretend that I'm dating a Quidditch player), what use have *I* got for a box too small to hold anything?? My favorite HP present is the one I bought myself while I was Xmas shopping: the big blue mug with the Hogwarts shield of arms. The above mentioned friend showed that she doesn't know me as well as she thinks she does, by expressing surprise that my favorite mug was 'so masculine', and she had expected me to like one with Harry flying on his broomstick. For Xmas, yet a third friend gave me the HP Xmas stocking, which if I had liked much more, I would have bought for myself (but now, what do I do with it until next Xmas?) AND a Enesco 'mini figurine with story scope; which is Harry flying his broomstick. The figurine is another thing that I would like to give to someone who likes it better than I do. Therefore, people who want the Golden Snitch box (minus broomstick pendent) or the Harry figurine, send me your snail mail address at catlady @ wicca.net (minus the spaces). Maya Crabtree wrote: > My friend who'd gone to the USA brought me back a HP blue mug with > the Hogwarts coat of arms on it (with a Crabtree&Evelyn's soap in it...;-) ). Crabtree & Evelyn is whom I think of when I read your name.... The blue mug, minus the soap, and the Golden Snitch keychain, IIRC can both be bought from warner bros store website wbstore.com Amy Z wrote: > WHY does James come out of V's wand before Lily, when he died > before she did? Is this a howler of an error or a massive clue to future > revelations? Carole has already reported that JKR, Bloomsbury, and Scholastic all agree that James before Lily was an error, and it has been 'fixed' in recent printings of GoF. Before then, members of this list developed much better explanations: one, that Harry unconsciously used his exceptionally strong magic power to make James appear first because he was thinking so much about James. Another, that the person who came out before Lily wasn't actually James, but was actually Harry (they strongly resemble each other) and represented the UNSUCCESSFUL death curse that Voldemort had thrown at HP which backfired to destroy V. In that theory, James would have been the NEXT person to come out, if HP had waited long enough. Other theories explain how Lily died before James despite the dialogue remembered by HP: for example, that the person who said 'Run, I'll hold him off" was a family friend, who would have been the NEXT person to come out of the wand .... Sara Ludwig [are you Sara or Catrina?] wrote: > I think he [Dumbledore? Snape?] has McGonagall with him to keep > things straight. I suppose you used 'straight' in its meaning of 'heterosexual' (which MY McGonagall would not appreciate: she is spending HER nights with Hoochie), rather than in its literal meaning, which is what made me LOL while reading that post ... threesome, eh? Maya Crabtree wrote: > About Karkaroff - I was wondering. Okay, so he got off the hook > after being first caught, but I still don't see how anyone would let him > run a SCHOOL (snip) Who made Karkaroff a headmaster anyway? > even if he had "turned good"? Durmstrang, we were told, has a bad reputation for teaching Dark Arts, not just Defense Against. If Durmstrang had always had that ethically dubious orientation, Karkaroff having been a former Death Eater may have been a point in his FAVOR to the selection committee. Has Lucius Malfoy managed to get on the Board of Trustees of Durmstrang as well as of Hogwarts? voicelady wrote: > In PS/SS there are also only 20 brooms in the flying lesson. *I* think > that Jo was caught off-guard with the "how many students are there" > question, and she just threw out an answer to appease the crowd. > I don't think that she's analyzed the details as much as we have! Jo is torn between there being around 1000 students at the real Hogwarts, with several bedrooms for Gryffindor boys of Harry's years, and the common room being a large suite of rooms with several fireplaces, and there being more like 100 than 20 brooms in the flying class, cauldrons in the potions class, and there are teaching assistants as well as teachers (in order to deal with such large classes), versus, she simplified it to one bedroom with five boys, one common room, 20 students in the mentioned classes in order to make the story flow more smoothly as a work of fiction. Amy Z wrote: > I notice a contradiction between the things Hagrid says about Sirius > and his motorcycle (snip) In chapter 1 of book 1, after bringing Harry > to Privet Drive, he tells Dumbledore and McGonagall that he has to > get Sirius's motorbike back to him. But in chapter ? of book 3 (snip) > Hagrid says that when he first saw Sirius at the wreckage of the > Potters' house, Sirius told him to take the motorbike and that he > wouldn't be needing it anymore. In discussion IIRC before GoF was published, a lot of people decided that this is just another example of Hagrid's memory/reportage being influenced by his opinions, just like when he said there was never a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin, but at that time, he believed that Sirius was the traitor, and Sirius was in Gryffindor. In chapter 1 of book 1, Hagrid knew how much Sirius loved that motorcycle and therefore ignored that he had said Keep It. In Book 3, Hagrid 'knew' that Sirius was the traitor, therefore remembered everything in the light of that knowledge. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 08:01:45 2000 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:01:45 +0200 Subject: Number of students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7952 Hi, In one of the Gryffindor-Slytherin Quidditch matches (don't remember which one, and I don't have the books here) It says that everyone on the stands were cheering to Gryffindor team, except for the 200 Slytherins on their side of the stands. By my calculation, that means ~30 students per year (including the 7 players, who were not sitting), which sounds like a reasonably sized class. This makes sense? yael Date: 27 Dec 2000 16:07:28 -0800 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com Subject: Re: Number of students On Wed, 27 December 2000, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > In CoS though, when Griffidore 2nd years have Herbology with the Hufflepuffs, there are about 20 pairs of earmuffs meaning that there are about 20 student with the two groups combined. In PS/SS there are also only 20 brooms in the flying lesson. *I* think that Jo was caught off-guard with the "how many students are there" question, and she just threw out an answer to appease the crowd. I don't think that she's analyzed the details as much as we have! ;-p If we go by the clues from the books, it seems to me that there should be no more than 350-400 students in the school. Jeralyn, the Voicelady current book: "Winter's Heart" by Robert Jordan Current CD: the Beatles' 1 Thanks, yael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Their clothes were cut off the edge of the latest fashion, which was currently inclining towards wide hats, padded shoulders, narrow waists and pointed shoes and gave its followers the appearance of being very well-dressed nails." - Terry Pratchett, Pyramids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 08:58:18 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 03:58:18 -0500 Subject: Hermione, the Queen of Hogwarts Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7953 I laughed till I cried! Thanks, CM! Amy up at 4 a.m., trying not to wake spouse with my hysterical laughter _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 09:05:49 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 04:05:49 -0500 Subject: out of the wand correction (was Who died first?) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7954 >>The question: WHY does James come out of V's wand before Lily, when he died >>before she did? Is this a howler of an error or a massive clue to future >>revelations? >It was a mistake that has been corrected in the most recent >printings. >There is a copy of the revised text in the files section of the >egroup >home >page. >carole WOW--what a relief! I can stop banging my head against that one now. Interesting change: JKR didn't preserve the line "she [now, would be "he"] wants to see you" . . . do dads not have that same tenderness that would make a man who died in his son's infancy simply long to see his son grown up? JKR has disappointingly conventional gender expectations at times . . . whoa, I did NOT say that, don't want to be held responsible for starting that argument! ;-) Thanks, Carole-- Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 08:45:09 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:45:09 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Death Eater Roll Call? References: <92dfs5+o4nf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <014d01c070ad$b8612040$062907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7955 > 2)"who I believe has left me forever" (probably Snape) First I thought so, too (it just has to be him, right?) but then I stumbled about Snape spying again - which he couldn't do if they knew he had betrayed them. Sorry for being redundant, this has been said several times now, but how else could he have done it? On the other hand this would mean that he actually was in the cave and didn't interfere! Or did he? I really think he is on Dumbledore's side, and how Hary got out of that cave is all in a blur, he doesn't even realize how he finally manages it, shooting spells over his back and so on - so Snape might have helped him. Kinda late, but still... Actually, I don't think he was there, but it is just a thought that occured to me. Quite confusing. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 08:53:03 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:53:03 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of students References: Message-ID: <014e01c070ad$b919c1e0$062907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7956 > So where are the other Griffindor boys Harry's age? Of course we only meet > a handful of students due to the limitations of space and attention. But it > does seem that there are only 5 Griffindor boys in Harry's year--him and his > 4 roommates. It's certainly possible that there are others in another dorm, > but put the various mentions of these 5 together with the problem of 70+ > students in a classroom and 1000 seems high. That came to me when I read about the Gryffindor/Slytherin Quidditch match (in PoA, I think). If you count 3/4 in Gryffindor color, but 200 in Slytherin (that's the numbers given) you get a lot more people than actually *are* in the school if you take the Gryffindor-House youths of Harry's age as an example (278 if you multiply with 4 Houses, 7 classes). I first thought that maybe people from Hogsmeade would come to the match - I mean, everyone loves Quidditch and they wouldn't miss a game. But as Jo said there are 1000 pupils it leaves me puzzled as well. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 08:59:43 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:59:43 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Happy endings/Death? References: <92drqj+djdu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <014f01c070ad$b9d26380$062907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7957 I saw the "Book Show" on Sky News on Christmas Day and they had a really long interview with Jo (I guess many of you have already seen it, but it was actually the first one I ever saw). And she said that many children say "Don't kill Ron, don't kill Hagrid" but that she can't let them vote who'll die or not and if they have to die for the story then off they go :-( I still don't think they'll die (at least not in the next book), but still *sniffel* Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 09:04:51 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:04:51 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Professor Sinistra's subject References: <010f01c07009$0b0a12c0$152e07d5@oemcomputer> <02cc01c07068$68785480$c4c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <015001c070ad$ba711480$062907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7958 >But in her books it isn't real, pagan Magic JKR is talking about, its more the fairy tale or fantasy kind, >anyway it's hugely exaggerated IMO. >catrina But it's the only reason I could think of... Hmmmm *ponder*, in fairy tale magic the Moon can be significant, right? But the stars... Maybe they have to learn it as "knowledge foundation". If they take Divination they surely need it, it would take much too long to teach them how to do astronomy charts if they didn't already know how the sky works. Dinah From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 28 09:30:12 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:30:12 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Merchandise for Christmas Message-ID: <01C0710C.FFF27580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7959 ROFL! I like Project Whiner myself! storm -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [SMTP:editor at texas.net] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:32 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] HP Merchandise for Christmas Dinah wrote: > And there is no merchandise available here. The only possibility is the > journals via Amazon, but they are really expensive for me, so I can just sit > here and weep... ;-( Okay, guys, everyone who got doubles of anything, pack 'em up and ship 'em to Dinah and Storm. We'll call it Project Sympathy (sounded just *oodles* better than Project Whiner....) Luv, Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 28 09:38:05 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:38:05 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? Message-ID: <01C0710E.1A146940.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7960 Emerald said: I was just rereading SS and on the second page it says "Mrs. Potter was Mrs. Dursley's sister, but they hadn't met for several years..." This means that if we assume the last time Petunia had seen Lily was before Petunia was married and Lily was still a minor and living at their parents house Lily probably did get married young and have Harry since she would have had to do that in the space of several years. The Dursleys had never seen Harry either, so he was probably born within the space of those few years. Petunia probably never saw Lily again after she herself was married due to her loathing of anything having to do with the wizarding world. I can't seem to type out how I'm thinking so if anyone can figure it out and tell everyone else in comprehendable logic I'd be very grateful. I'm not sure where you got your base assumption from Emerald - they might have met in the street, at a family function or any number of places. Of course Harry was born in the years they had not seen each other - he was only 14? 18? months when James and Lily were killed. But remember Petunia did know of his existence and his name so she obviously had some access to a source of information somewhere ..... storm -----Original Message----- From: Emerald7586 at aol.com [SMTP:Emerald7586 at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:26 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Dec 28 09:40:02 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:40:02 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks Message-ID: <01C0710E.5E246C20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 7961 You fancy a threesome? We've never discussed *that* before storm -----Original Message----- From: Sara Ludwig [SMTP:sara.ludwig at telia.com] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:26 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks I think he has McGonagall with him to keep things straight. hehe catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fran: Nathan Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 27 december 2000 02:14 Amne: RE: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore & socks >Dumbledore's is not lonely - he has Snape to keep him warm at night. Aiiiieeieieieieieiieieieieieieieee!!!! Thank you for that wonderful mental image... lessee, where did I put that summoning giant whiffle bat charm.... Nathan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From donna.rae at verizon.net Thu Dec 28 11:02:10 2000 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (res097eu) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 06:02:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Serious Harry Withdrawal! References: <92emre+ndmv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <020201c070bd$a07313c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7962 Try The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. I'm on book two and it's filled with magic, dragons, evil wizards, good wizards, seekers, confessors, and the dark lord of the underworld trying to get everyone. Very satisfying to read. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Leilani Webb To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 1:33 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Serious Harry Withdrawal! I just finished reading all four books again, played all the games I got for Christmas, never missed a question in the trivia game. I need another book and I need it now. Will someone suggest other titles that may keep me happy for the what seems like an unreasonable amount of time until book five arrives? Are there any other witch/wizard/magic type stories out there? eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 11:07:28 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:07:28 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Serious Harry Withdrawal! References: <92emre+ndmv@eGroups.com> <020201c070bd$a07313c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <006201c070be$5e85d460$202907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7963 I'm currently reading "The house with a clock in its walls" and it's really great. Another good read is "Under sea, over stone" by Susan Cooper. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 11:07:55 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:07:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Merchandise References: <92emre+ndmv@eGroups.com> <020201c070bd$a07313c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <006c01c070be$6ee56b40$202907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7964 Oh, just call me a Whiner, I don't mind ;-) Can anyone tell me what is in the Harry Potter Stationery Kit ? I could get my hands on that one, but I don't really know what it is... Dinah From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Dec 28 12:16:06 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:16:06 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Karkaroff In-Reply-To: <003601c07058$c6ac7dc0$59ac003e@default> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7965 > >>Again, at Karkaroff's trial, Dumbledore said that Snape had been a Death >Eater >>before turning back to the good guys. > >About Karkaroff - I was wondering. Okay, so he got off the hook after being >first caught, but I still don't see how anyone would let him run a sCHOOl. >judging form Dumbledore, the greatest wizard of them all - runnong a >wizard's school is one of th most homourable things to do. Who made >Karkaroff a headmaster anywya? even if he had "turned good"? Methinks we better pose the question to the Durmstrang governors. Nathan From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Dec 28 12:22:30 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:22:30 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Dark is Rising was Serious Harry Withdrawal! In-Reply-To: <006201c070be$5e85d460$202907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7966 >I'm currently reading "The house with a clock in its walls" and it's really >great. Another good read is "Under sea, over stone" by Susan Cooper. Why limit yourself to book 1 of "The Dark is Rising" series, go for the whole thing! ^_^ Nathan From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 12:06:34 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:06:34 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Dark is Rising was Serious Harry Withdrawal! References: Message-ID: <000e01c070c6$9ff76500$632d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7967 > >I'm currently reading "The house with a clock in its walls" and it's really > >great. Another good read is "Under sea, over stone" by Susan Cooper. > > Why limit yourself to book 1 of "The Dark is Rising" series, go for the > whole thing! ^_^ > > Nathan Didn't have time nor money to get the rest of them, but I will! Dinah From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Dec 28 12:25:38 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:25:38 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7968 >It says several times that the other Griffidor boys in Harrys class are >Neville, Seamus, Dean, and Ron. Maybe Hogwarts is set up so that >Slytherin >and Griffindor are the hardest to get into, and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw >have more students... > >In CoS though, when Griffidore 2nd years have Herbology with the >Hufflepuffs, there are about 20 pairs of earmuffs meaning that there are >about 20 student with the two groups combined. the 5 griffindor >boys, plus >the 3 girls that we know about (Lavender Brown, Parvati Patil, and >Hermione) >equals 7, leaving Hufflepuff with about 12 students in that grade.(prof. >Sprout needs earmuffs too.) Then there are the Potion classes with references to 20 cauldrons. This is apparently a Gryffindor-Slytherin combined section. Nathan From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 13:38:11 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:38:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of students References: Message-ID: <3A4B4243.E378FEC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7969 Hi -- Amy Z wrote: > JKR recently said in an interview that there are about 1000 students > at > Hogwarts. This seems very high. > > Seriously, this is the kind of detail that gnaws at me. JKR usually > seems pretty careful about this kind of thing. But maybe she never > gave it a thought and just responded to the interviewer off the top of > her head. Amy - as others have said, we had some big debates about the number of students at Hogwarts prior to JKR's statement about 1000 students in October. I'll have all those debates included in the Hogwarts FAQ (eventually!). When she gave this interview, most all of us were left stunned, saying "Huh? Come again? *1000* students! That makes *no* sense with the internal evidence of the books." Like you, I'm inclined to think that she gave an off-the-cuff response that hadn't been thought out. Sigh. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 13:42:41 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:42:41 -0600 Subject: HPstuff for christmas References: <002201c0704f$caa7dd60$59ac003e@default> Message-ID: <3A4B4351.2C17F769@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7970 Hi -- Maya Crabtree wrote: > When I went over to England recently, I had expeted to see piles of > it! Maybe I was't looking in the rigth place but ALL I saw was one > monthly calendar. and not many of it at all. that was in WHSmith (for > those of you who are british). in fact, wehn I had looked for it in > the store, expecting to find it in a noticable place, I had difficulty > finding it. I then looked in the "best sellers" shelf. then in the > "fiction " shelf, then in the "paperback" shelf, then in the " books > by author's name" (or whateveR) shelf., ONly then did it occur to me > to visit the children;s corner, and there is was, not displayed > (again) in a noticable place, but in R, for Rowling. like any other > book. not that there's anything wrong about that, just that since in > ISRAEL this british book was so admired and being read mostly by > adu,ts etc, I HAD expected it to be ten times more in the UK, it's > birthplace. And no merchadise. I too was amazed at the lack of publicity or what have you with respect to the HP books in the UK. I was there last April, and like Maya, I had to really search to even *find* the books in the bookstores. There were no large displays like there are here. In the US, you can't walk into a bookstore without tripping over a large stack of HP books. Now that the merchandise is here, it turns out to be more widely distributed than I had thought it would be. I thought it would be sold exclusively through WB stores & Hallmark stores. Not so. Dept stores now all have large HP merchandise displays as well. > Hope you all enjoy you HP things. Aren't there some which you find > just TOO much? TOO commercialized? So far, I think many of us have complained about the commercialization but bought loads of the merchandise nonetheless. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Thu Dec 28 12:16:54 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:16:54 +0200 Subject: Identifying with the characters Message-ID: <003101c070d5$29f45fc0$f0ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7971 > >That's really an interesting theory, and in my case it pans out >completely. I have much more of a Ron-type personality. I never had >the kind of assertive thing that Hermione does. And as a kid I never >much felt the need to participate until and unless something grabbed >me (as my unadulterated enthusiasm for Ron and the Weasleys in general >grabs me). Which I guess is why lately it seems I can't shut up to >save my life. Ron's perspective in the books is the one that I >identify with most. Or if not Ron, Ginny or Neville even before Harry >*or* Hermione. > Hm, I think I feel the opposite, in a way. I'm only 19.5, so I can't really say I'll always be as I am now, but in genrela I am DEFINATELY the Hermione type. Especially in the last 3 years. The more things I did - the more I enjoyed doing even MORE things. I HATE resting and lounging aobut for more than a few hours a week, and sitting alone at home is only enjoyable if use it the READ or talk to my freinds over the phone. I always feel taht if I had the chance I could help in many things, and usually take too much upon myself. I never invested TOO much effort in studies, becuase there were other things I found more important and more intersting, a little like how Hermione loosens up on the study thing after the experience with going back in time proved to her that you just can't take EVERYTHING upon yourself. As I think I already wrote, after a freidn of mine had first started reading book 1 - he said that when reading Hermione right from the start - I immediately came to mind. (I wasn't too flattered though :-) In the beginning of the book Hermione's really annyoing).... On the other hand I feel very different from her, and closer to Ron, because even when I DO act like her, I don't do so with lots of selfconfidence, I am much less sure that I am RIGHT, and so sometimes keep quiet for a while because I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. However, I always feel bad in that state, and usully bounce back to my usual more bossy-Hermione type state...;-) And I think taht people either really like me for that weakness or REALLY dislike me for it. It's usually clear cut... I could never identify with Ginny though, Ron's insecurity is one thing, and to that I sometimes relate, but to Ginny's would be very difficult... >I can't identify too much with Harry, as I've never been a hero, nor >have I had the kind of scrutiny or expectations that Harry endures. In a way, I never think Harry could be real. I mean, I can very well picture Hermione and Ron as real people, even though Ron IS theoreticlly more different because he grew up in a wizard family, whereas Harry and Hermione know both worlds. But ron and Hermione, though not sterotype sort of characters, are still more realistic. Harry just has so many different things in him, that he just seems to disappear in a way, when I close the book. For example, I can be more sure about the way Ron and Hermione ought to look that Harry, even though Harry IS the most described one... his hair and glasses and slenderness are mentioned a LOT. That's why in a way, when I think that maybe the R/H solution is the best, I don;t wnat him to be with Ginny or Cho or anything. I just imagine that he sort of disappears, maybe as a legent, maybe he becomes somehting important and individual (NOT as a head of office/department in the ministry). But that Ron and Hermione still live. I don't really relate to Harry's feelings about not having a family, I understand them and sort of feel sorry for him, but can't really sympathize. Whereas Ron's feelings - Jealously of Harry - I can sympethize very well (even though my family is not poor). And also with Hermione's problems. Harry just seems a little harder to picture as a real person. Is there anyone who thinks they might agree with that - or am I jsut too confuesd? Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Thu Dec 28 12:19:52 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:19:52 +0200 Subject: More about Hermione Message-ID: <003201c070d5$2b905c80$f0ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7972 >And Hermione is the kind of girl that I always envied just a little >bit. Best friends with the heros, super-smart and capable of calling >on her knowlege in a crisis, and on top of everything, able to >clean-up and be beautiful and elegant. I just can't identify with >her. She's almost too perfect. > Oh, but she's not perfect at all! Okay, maybe in book 4 she is close to that. In that book I can;t sumpathize with her either, apart from the attempts to bring Harry and Ron back to being best friends. When that happened - I really DID shed some tears (and surprised myself at that ;;-) ) together with Hermione, or so I felt. But, it's true. she is more realistic in books 1-3 and easier to sympathize with. Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Thu Dec 28 13:29:35 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:29:35 +0200 Subject: Correction about the interview with JKR on Sky news Message-ID: <003301c070d5$2c8a9b00$f0ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7973 Penny, >I'd be very interested in hearing more about this particular interview >Maya, since it contradicts virtually everything else I've ever heard her >say on the subject. She's always maintained that she has no target >audience, never intended to write for children & intends to stick fast >to her pledge to not tone down the books for the younger readers (i.e., >she's got a story to tell & she's planning to tell it regardless of how >many 8 yr old readers she has). I'm sorry, I think I've been misleading. she didn't say in that interview that she's not going to kill good guys. She didn't say taht she's not going to kill MANY good guys. I know she is aware of her huge and in fact larger group of ADULT readers. All she DID say was that she doesn't understand why everybody seems to think she's going to kill Hagrid and/or Ron. She said that most of the speculations she gets are about those two, and she sounded as if she was in fact saying that it will not be actually one of those two... But that's just my own guess. Also, my own speculation is that she's not going to made a big WW3 out of this. although, it would be extremely thrilling to read, and will in fact make books 5-7 so very different from the first 3 and so very original (when I was beginning to wonder already what could she invent NOW that will suprise us as muich as the existing books had). I still think she is writing a children's books, although not necessarily FOR children. I am not sure how to descrive what I mean - I think I can onlysay that the "Children's Book" is a sort of type, and since started like that , even if bad things DO happen, I believe that WILL end it happily. I think that maybe people will die who are good, but that they will probably be people who are not young. that is - I don't believe she'll kill one of the three friends. It is more likely that the one/s to die will be either teachers or youngstres - even ones we like, but NOT our 3 heroes. Dumbleddore's a good bet, because he has done so much alreayd with his life. He has risen to the height of being the bet wizard in the world. He didn't WANT to become minister of Magic. He chose to become the headmaste of Hogwarts. He's fighted Voldemort in the past. His last mission in this world is to either orchestrate the final destroyal of Voldemort, or to help Harry to do so. The moment voldermort's out of the story (which will obviously be in the end of book 7) Dumbledore has fulfilled all he can. so he might be someone "good" to kill. Or Snape - he is also a good guy,and if he dies, he'll die in action, but we still don't LOVE him, so it won't be a shock. like I said, maybe I am being naive, but I tend to believe that Rowling will take that sort of line. People who we either don't LOVE or who we love but have "fufilled their roll" so to speak... Your thoughts? I'm sorry if I was misleading aobut that interview. The thing I noticed most was the annoying interveiwer , less thant he questions. In the end , he just sat there alone, doing a monolouge about how riding a train with JKRowling is the most woderful and magical thng in the world, and by THAT completely taking away the "ordinary woman" image that she's trying to keep. Yes,it was interesting to liten to her replies, It's thrilling to know what she'll write in the next three books. But she's not GODDESS , she doesn't try to project anyhting of the kind. And he really annoyed me with his adoration speech. ;-) Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Thu Dec 28 13:42:52 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:42:52 +0200 Subject: Unicode Hebrew Translator Message-ID: <003401c070d5$2deb1560$f0ac003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 7974 >Maya, >I am not certain what you have embedded in your message (see about for info >about the original subject), but it asked me to download a "Unicode Hebrew >translator" to view your message, something I am not familiar with. > >Does anyone else on the list know what this is, or why I gave me that >message? > >Thanks! >************************************************************ >~~Dee~~ I really have'nt a clue! I think it is possible to send hebrew through Outlook Express, which I use for e-mail, but I hardly ever do it, as my computer (as opposed to most conputers in Israel) is English-orintated. When you Hebrew-orientate your computer it's not as simple as French or Spanish. You have to have a completely new font. Everything also flips from right to left. that's if it goes right. If it goes wrong, it might flip everything upside down as if should, but might not display the hebrew letters - only strange symbols. On the other hand, it might show the hebrew letters but leave eerything left to right, so you would have to read everything left to right, from the end of the word or the end of the sentence.... Anyway, I don't use it in e-mail, especially not in this e-mail. and it seems to have succeeded in sending other messages to this list in the last two days. Maybe it's when I made a mistake, and whilre replying to one out of the 25 messages on the digest (which btw, does'n't seem to be daily, but more than one a day ;-) ), I forogt to delete all the other message below theone I was replying to and I think it sort of sent them back. Maybe I made another mistake. This has'n't happened before... ;-) Maya From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Dec 28 13:57:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:57:10 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shippers,Happy Endings & Related Topics / Merchandise References: <92efhf+9suk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4B46B6.555092CB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7975 Hi -- SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com wrote: > But, I don't see the evidence that the H/H shippers do that says she > fancies Harry. (It's been too long, Penny; remind me of your points > again...) Ah ... in short: she bought him expensive birthday gifts in CoS, PoA & GoF (granted, we don't even know when Ron's birthday *is* or what Hermione might be buying him); she chose to spend all or the vast majority of her time with Harry rather than Ron during the H/R fight; it's Harry who is the recipient of Krum's jealousy, not Ron ("Herm-own-ninny talks about Harry all the time according to Krum); she kissed Harry at the end of GoF. It's also just a feeling that I have as well, much like the R/H shippers see a mutual attraction between those two, I see evidence that Hermione likes Harry instead. I'm very intrigued by the girl that came up with the "Square" theory that Ebony talked about yesterday, before PoA. I know I wouldn't have picked up on it until after PoA. I guess I just agree with the instincts & intuition of all these teenage kids who think Hermione likes Harry. It's a gut feeling, combined with the "evidence" cited above. I know it won't be strong enough to convince any R/H shipper to change sides, but it's good enough for me. I still put my money on some variation of Farmer in the Dell/Square theory. There are also people like my sister, who have read each book through once, and are amazed that people would think anything other than Hermione likes Harry but Ron likes Hermione. Since she has accurately predicted more about each book's surprises & plot twists than anyone else I know, I'll put my money on her instincts as well. > I don't see it like this, either. I do expect rays of hope for the > surviving good guys (and for us as well), and, as of now, I'm still > putting my money on R/He, Ha/G. I in no way see the ending as > maudlin or schmaltzy. By the same token, I don't see the end being > gloomily, depressingly dark, either. Somber, but hopeful...? More > like that... Yes -- like you, I see the ending as being something somewhere in between schmaltzy and dead depressing. I don't think it will be all gloom & doom at the end; there will likely be a ray of sunshine & hope for our surviving characters. But, I think there will have been losses along the way. And, I just don't see JKR as the type author who will go for the "tie *everything* up with a neat bow" at the end. > Bet you guys wish I had stayed lurking, right? No, not at all. Great thoughts! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 28 14:13:56 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 28 Dec 2000 06:13:56 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Origins of the "Farmer in the Dell" theory... Message-ID: <20001228141356.3150.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7976 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 28 14:18:12 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 28 Dec 2000 06:18:12 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Serious Harry Withdrawal! Message-ID: <20001228141812.3173.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7977 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Dec 28 14:21:03 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 28 Dec 2000 06:21:03 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pardon me while I throw a childish fit... Message-ID: <20001228142103.3245.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 7978 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Dec 28 14:21:35 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:21:35 -0000 Subject: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <92fi9f+3iee@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7979 I hope everyone had a great seasonal celebration of whatever variety. We had a fall of snow in London this morning (28th), so I feel really, really festive. My theory on Sinistra's subject (Astronomy) is that it incorporates elements of Mathematics and Physics from which the students would glean some Muggle-oriented science. Some of the other subjects mirror or incorporate regular school subjects as well. Here's my take on this: - *Herbology = Botany/Gardening *Care of Magical Creatures = Zoology/Vetinary Science *Arithmancy = Arithmetic/Mathematics *Potions = Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology *Astronomy = (Astro)physics/Mathematics/Geography (of the Heavens) *Charms = Latin/Drama/Kinetics *DADA = Physical Education/Chemistry/Physics *Divination = Mathematics/Psychology/Phisosophy/Lunacy *Ancient Runes = (a branch of Divination) *Transfiguration = Physics/Biology (bioenergetics)/Physical Education *History of Magic = History/Tolerance (of boredom) *Quidditch = Physical Education/Driving Lessons [US: Driver's Ed] *Muggle Studies = History/Sociology/Technology etc. Most of these subjects would include use of English Language in the writing of essays, but there are a few topics that don't seem to be covered much at all: Terrestrial Geography (it's no wonder that no one knows where anything is located), Modern Languages, English Lit, Art, Music and Sex Education spring to mind. Overall, the curriculum seems very science-heavy and could do with an injection from the creative arts. For example, I'd love to see the Sorting Hat coaching the Hogwarts' School Choir ? that would have so much comic potential. *** How about dreaming up some new subjects for the students to study? Here are my suggestions: LINGOMANCY ? the study of spellcasting languages; NUTRIGENESIS ? the science of creating tasty food items from the ether; NEURYTHMICS ?advanced training in the combination of magical force and wrist action. KINETAESTHETICS? the development of skills in the artistic representation of moving images. Neil Christmas gifts: HP = 0; Socks = 0; Chocolate = 1 From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 15:04:26 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:04:26 -0000 Subject: Number of students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92fkpq+if7d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7980 Nathan:" Maybe Hogwarts is set up so that Slytherin and Griffindor are the hardest to get into, and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw have more students..." Who goes where is entirely up to the Sorting Hat, which puts people where their personal qualities suit them without regard to quotas or anything else. Having said that, I think you may well be right; Gryffindor and Slytherin students are exceptional, and there's a lot more people who do the work in life (Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw) then get the glory (or the notoriety). There's no evidence for this, though. I have a hard time with the 20 earmuffs and 20 brooms too. If the houses are indeed larger, as they must be to meet JKR's number, then the explanation might be that combined sections don't include ALL the Slytherins and ALL the Gryffindors. This actually has to be true once students start taking electives such as Divination and Arithmancy. Also, if the school only has 300+/- students (too low, IMO)the teachers have a lot of time on their hands. I said this before, but I have a hard time with very low numbers for the Hogwarts student body. The evidence is conflicting in many areas. We have the 20 student joint classes and the small dorms on one side, and the huge castle and seating for 1200 at the Yule Ball on the other. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 16:21:45 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:21:45 -0000 Subject: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror In-Reply-To: <92d867+s273@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92fpap+qpub@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7981 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > Interestingly, Molly (GoF) stated the Fat Lady lectured her for > sneaking into Gryffindor Tower late one night after spending the > evening with Arthur. Perhaps Bill was the result of this evening or > another evening? If so, then Molly might have been pregnant with Bill during her Hogwarts time. Also, I think Arthur is older than Molly. > In PS/SS, Ron tells Harry that his parents were both in Gryffindor. > If Arthur and Molly are the same age (or if both were enrolled at > Hogwarts concurrently), then wouldn't the Fat Lady have caught both > of them sneaking into the Tower? Maybe she did. IIRC Molly didn't explicitly say that Arthur wasn't there as well. She naturally remembered most vividly the scolding she got. Or, maybe the Fat Lady was harder on her than on Arthur bc she was a girl? You know, the way teachers (incuding female teachers!) discriminate, often without meaning to, against girls. I must say, though, that if she was like that then, she must have changed, bc she's not like that now, as far as I recall. ;-) Naama From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 28 16:20:02 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:20:02 -0000 Subject: Ebony References: <92dj3i+gmr4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009701c070ea$187edf80$c42f7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7982 > Afternoon, everyone... as I'm waiting around online for my beta- > readers to show up so I can post to ff.net and resume inter-holiday > hibernation , I ran across something of interest. Tried to e-mail you off list with my comments ( not many ) but the message was " undelivrable ". Got an alternative address ? Michelle From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 16:39:01 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:39:01 -0000 Subject: Little comments on Dumbledore, Lily and James, etc. In-Reply-To: <3A4A2954.2BDFE885@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <92fqb5+u4ip@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7983 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Firebolt wrote: > Charmian wrote: > > > IMHO, Dumbledore *has* to die, or in any case > somehow lose his omnipotence. Harry depends on him too much - he's never > going to become mature enough and strong enough for a final showdown with > Voldemort if deep down he's thinking that as long as Dumbledore's there, > everything will be all right. Why, oh, why does everyone here think that Dumbledore is a gonner? The argument that Harry "needs" Dumbledore to die so he can mature and so on is very unconvincing, IMO. For one thing, Harry has already realized that Dumbledore isn't omnipotent - when he couldn't save Sirius; and that he's not omniscient - when he admitted that he never knew about MWPP the whole time. You don't have to kill the father in order to let the son become a man. A much better way is to have the son become a man through accepting his father's fallibility. In the Lord of the Rings, where Gandalf plays a very similar role Dumbledore does in HP, he does not die at the end. He stays alive to orchestrate the downfall of Mordor and save Frodo and Sam (and the others). I don't present this as proof, of course, but just to show that Dumbledore dying is not structurally necessary . Naama From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Dec 28 16:54:02 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:54:02 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Little comments on Dumbledore, Lily and James, etc. References: <92fqb5+u4ip@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4B7029.52172F6B@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 7984 Gack, I didn't word myself properly, my fault. What I was trying to say is that Dumbledore could easily die because even though he actually does know that Dumbledore isn't a superhuman, he tends to think that Dumble has the answer to everything; remember that in PoA, Harry was shocked because he thought that Dumbledore didn't know how to save Sirius - until he told Hermione to use the Time Turner. So in order for Harry to 'grow up', as it were, something a bit more drastic than what's already happened needs to happen - and one way is for Dumbledore to die. Did I clarify myself, or only get more confusing? ~Firebolt naama wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Firebolt wrote: > > Charmian wrote: > > > > > > IMHO, Dumbledore *has* to die, or in any case > > somehow lose his omnipotence. Harry depends on him too much - he's > never > > going to become mature enough and strong enough for a final > showdown with > > Voldemort if deep down he's thinking that as long as Dumbledore's > there, > > everything will be all right. > > Why, oh, why does everyone here think that Dumbledore is a gonner? > The argument that Harry "needs" Dumbledore to die so he can mature > and so on is very unconvincing, IMO. For one thing, Harry has > already realized that Dumbledore isn't omnipotent - when he couldn't > save Sirius; and that he's not omniscient - when he admitted that he > never knew about MWPP the whole time. You don't have to kill the > father in order to let the son become a man. A much better way is to > have the son become a man through accepting his father's fallibility. > In the Lord of the Rings, where Gandalf plays a very similar role > Dumbledore does in HP, he does not die at the end. He stays alive to > orchestrate the downfall of Mordor and save Frodo and Sam (and the > others). I don't present this as proof, of course, but just to show > that Dumbledore dying is not structurally necessary . > > Naama > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Dec 28 17:19:39 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:19:39 -0000 Subject: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror In-Reply-To: <3A4AA7D3.F1408AB2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92fsnb+eum3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7985 Penny wrote: > Hi -- > > Stephanie Becvar wrote: > > > Penny but why 5 years ago? I mean, the twins would have been in their > > 1st year, so he wouldnt have been coming to watch them play Quidditch, > > and Percy would have been in his 3rd year, but he didnt play > > Quidditch. This always confised me a lot....bc I want to know what he > > was doing there... > > He could have been at an alumni event 5 years prior to GoF. He could > have made a trip to revisit his old stomping grounds before leaving for > Egypt. Various things he could have been doing. > > Think about it this way. If Bill graduated 5 yrs prior to GoF, then > Charlie must have graduated the year before Harry et al arrive at > Hogwarts. Yet, Gryffindor hadn't won the House Cup in 7(?) yrs and > hadn't won the Quidditch Cup in 8 yrs from PoA (I think). If Charlie > was such an all-star Quidditch player, why would they have lost the cup > all those years while he was playing for them? > > Penny It would be interesting to find out what event prompted Bill to visit Hogwarts 5 years before GoF. Also it's very possible to have all-star players and have a losing team: the Baltimore Orioles had one of the best pitchers for the last two years and have been in last place; the Washington Redskins have good players and are a sorry team too. My high school had an average baseball team and an above-average pitcher (who was recruited by the New York Yankees right after graduation); they NEVER won a State championship in the 4 years he pitched, because the rest of the team wasn't very good. Quidditch, like baseball and football (both kinds), is a TEAM sport. The overall performance of the TEAM depends on the performance of ALL the members. So, it's quite conceivable that Charlie was a superstar on an good team that won "seven years" ago, but was a superstar on an average team that failed to win thereafter. :-)Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Dec 28 17:27:11 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:27:11 -0000 Subject: Ages? and Dumbledore's Mirror In-Reply-To: <92fpap+qpub@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ft5f+apbf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7986 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > > > Interestingly, Molly (GoF) stated the Fat Lady lectured her for > > sneaking into Gryffindor Tower late one night after spending the > > evening with Arthur. Perhaps Bill was the result of this evening or > > another evening? If so, then Molly might have been pregnant with > Bill during her Hogwarts time. Also, I think Arthur is older than > Molly. > > In PS/SS, Ron tells Harry that his parents were both in Gryffindor. > > If Arthur and Molly are the same age (or if both were enrolled at > > Hogwarts concurrently), then wouldn't the Fat Lady have caught both > > of them sneaking into the Tower? > > Maybe she did. IIRC Molly didn't explicitly say that Arthur wasn't > there as well. She naturally remembered most vividly the scolding she > got. > Or, maybe the Fat Lady was harder on her than on Arthur bc she was a > girl? You know, the way teachers (incuding female teachers!) > discriminate, often without meaning to, against girls. I must say, > though, that if she was like that then, she must have changed, bc > she's not like that now, as far as I recall. ;-) > > Naama Maybe her attitude toward Fred and George's "laxity" is the result of her "mis-spent youth". I've known people who were reportedly wild as kids turn into very strict parents later in life. :-)Milz From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Dec 28 17:33:23 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:33:23 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Correction about the interview with JKR on Sky news References: <003301c070d5$2c8a9b00$f0ac003e@default> Message-ID: <001301c070f4$48a248a0$ca2e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 7987 > The thing I noticed most > was the annoying interveiwer , less thant he questions. In the end , he just > sat there alone, doing a monolouge about how riding a train with JKRowling > is the most woderful and magical thng in the world, and by THAT completely > taking away the "ordinary woman" image that she's > trying to keep Ugh, that bloke really was sleazy... But apart from that I found the interview quite interesting - or at least the fifteen minutes I saw. Dinah From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 18:01:20 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:01:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Dark is Rising was Serious Harry Withdrawal! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7988 I remember those books from when i was little! Anyway, i kind of want to read them again, can you please tell me who wrote them, so i'll be able to find them easily? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 18:09:24 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:09:24 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore/more death In-Reply-To: <92fqb5+u4ip@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92fvkk+qf8j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7989 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Firebolt wrote: > > Why, oh, why does everyone here think that Dumbledore is a gonner? > The argument that Harry "needs" Dumbledore to die so he can mature > and so on is very unconvincing, IMO. For one thing, Harry has > already realized that Dumbledore isn't omnipotent - when he couldn't > save Sirius; and that he's not omniscient - when he admitted that he > never knew about MWPP the whole time. You don't have to kill the > father in order to let the son become a man. A much better way is to > have the son become a man through accepting his father's fallibility. > In the Lord of the Rings, where Gandalf plays a very similar role > Dumbledore does in HP, he does not die at the end. He stays alive to > orchestrate the downfall of Mordor and save Frodo and Sam (and the > others). I don't present this as proof, of course, but just to show > that Dumbledore dying is not structurally necessary . You're right that we can't really use literary "formulae" to determine who's going to kick the bucket, but there are other reasons for thinking Dumbledore might die, namely the constant "impending mortality" passages, where Harry notices how tired and old Dumbledore seems, etc. One tends to think that JKR is preparing us for his demise with such passages. Picking up other related threads... Hmmm. So, JKR has stated that she will kill off a major character whom we will all be very sad to see go. Gosh, it's so good to belong to a mailing list that gives you interview info so you don't have to search for it yourself! That doesn't sound good for much of the cast, though, except the non-cuddly characters. Charmian From vderark at bccs.org Thu Dec 28 18:29:26 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:29:26 -0000 Subject: Number of students In-Reply-To: <92fkpq+if7d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92g0q6+9hkm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7990 > > I said this before, but I have a hard time with very low numbers for > the Hogwarts student body. The evidence is conflicting in many areas. > We have the 20 student joint classes and the small dorms on one side, > and the huge castle and seating for 1200 at the Yule Ball on the > other. Another thing...when they play Quidditch, the stands are said to be full of fans. I know we've talked about this already, but just think about it...there HAS to be more than 300 kids there for the stands to be anything close to "full." Three hundred people would never look like much of a crowd in a sports stadium. It doesn't look like much of a crowd in my theater, for that matter, and stadiums hold more than theaters. But then there HAS to be more teachers. Take Snape for example. Suppose he's teaching Potions to every level, double classes. That means that he teaches two first year, two second year, etc. for a total of fourteen classes a week. Because they're long--an hour and a half--that would fill the week with time for a few lab classes with upper level kids who are specializing in Potions. But that would only give them one class a week. That doesnt' work. Logically, classes would meet at least twice a week, and there are plenty of examples in the books of this. What about Charms? Two or three classes a week per house per level? That's 28 classes a week if it's once a week, 56 if it's twice a week, etc. That's not possible for poor old Flitwick, I'm thinking. That's a bit much in a five-day week with Friday afternoon off, which is the Hogwarts schedule. And that's with the low number of students, in the range of about 300 kids. Add kids and you add classes. A thousand kids? You'd need a staff of three or four times what we've seen so far, maybe more. Here's an interesting point, though. When I first read SS/PS, I imagined a large student body, maybe 700-1000 kids. I have no idea what gave me that impression. It wasn't anything I worked out or spotted evidence of. I just got that idea from the way the place sounded to me. I think that's the same thing that happened with Jo. She just imagined it that way but didn't logic it all out. Then she wrote details without thinking it through, but her overall picture, the way she just describes the world Harry and his friends live in, came through in her writing as being fairly large. We're trying to fit those two views together, the general impressions and the details, and they frankly don't fit. So we're stuck with taking at face value her comment of a thousand students and wait to see if she starts introducing new characters etc. in the next book to smooth it over. I'll bet she will. All of a sudden there will be some little comment about Harry seeing "all forty-eight teachers singing the school song together except McGonagall, who was trying to play the bagpipes, and Snape, who was hexing them so no sound came out" and "that huge class of Ravenclaw fifth years, the one with 96 kids in it, using up the hot water for the umpteenth time..." Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 28 17:51:10 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:51:10 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding Music/Wedding Traditions References: <92b5nj+f8i3@eGroups.com> <3A4924DF.A4C24EE9@swbell.net> Message-ID: <014201c070fd$ad208400$c42f7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 7991 > I don't see it as a likely custom in England myself, but I'm no expert! > The nearest thing I know is that Greeks pin money on the bride. But there is no equivalent to the Dollar Dance as far as I know. Scots, Irish, Welsh or anyone from outside the M25 please jump in if there are any local customs that contradict my statement !! Michelle From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 19:23:10 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:23:10 -0500 Subject: Identifying with the characters Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7992 >I could never identify with Ginny though, Ron's insecurity is one thing, >and >to that I sometimes relate, but to Ginny's would be very difficult... I don't particularly relate to Ginny but I don't think she's that insecure. She doesn't appear to be shy except where Harry is concerned. Ron observes that the first time Harry meets her (at the Burrow in 2) and it's true, around her family she is talkative and assertive. I like the common room scene in 4 where the boys are struggling with their dateless state for what it tells us about her--she is no shrinking violet when it comes to her brothers or when she's inflamed about something. As with many of us, being around someone she has a crush on brings out another side of her personality (look at the seldom-tongue-tied Harry when he tries to talk to Cho . . . ). Really, what's striking is how most of the characters take meeting HARRY POTTER in stride, albeit with an irresistable glance at his forehead. Meeting in the flesh a boy who has legendary status in your world, about whom (if you're Ginny's age) you've heard bedtime stories, for heaven's sake . . . sharing a train compartment with HP for the first time must've been like being in an elevator with Robert Redford, Abraham Lincoln, and Jesus all at once (sorry for the U.S. slant). I think I relate to Harry not because I think I'm like him or can imagine a life as a hero, orphan, teenage boy, etc.--i.e. not for all the reasons that I DO relate to Hermione, namely I was really like her in many ways (hope I've outgrown some of them). But we get inside his head more than anyone else's so he is real to me in many small ways. Esp. starting in PoA when things get dark . . . when we start seeing aspects of his personality that are harder to accept (though easy to understand), e.g. his bitterness and wish for revenge against SB. Amy Z. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 19:37:24 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:37:24 -0500 Subject: Serious Harry Withdrawal! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7993 Read Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy: Northern Lights [The Golden Compass in U.S.], The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass. I don't know why it always comes up in conjunction with HP, other than that JKR has recommended him and that they are British fantasies for young people--not everyone who loves HP is particularly a fantasy reader, including JKR! (Pullman describes himself as not a fantasy reader either.) They are very different in many ways, but I recommend HDM to total strangers on the street so I'll recommend it here too. These books are darker, more complex and adult--seldom funny, but profoundly imaginative and very well written. I only discovered them this year (thank heaven, only had to wait 2 months before #3 came out, it was agony) and I think they are books I will return to every couple of years for the rest of my life. Once you know what a daemon is you'll feel like you've known, or should've known, all your life. I also recommend Ursula LeGuin to every fantasy lover I know, though my two favorites of hers are not fantasy but scifi: The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed. She is one of the best living U.S. writers of any genre, in my opinion. Her fantasy stuff is the Earthsea trilogy (now a tetralogy actually). I would take these (Pullman and LeGuin) to a desert island above HP if I were rating fiction by how deeply it can change my life, but as the long months 'til book 5 stretch ahead of us, I wish I knew of something like HP for sheer inventiveness and humor. I laugh out loud reading HP. Terry Pratchett hasn't caught my imagination the same way; I loved Dahl when I was a kid but the hysteria level (emotional-hysterical, not funny-hysterical--does everyone "cry" instead of "say" in RD?!) raises my blood pressure; the closest thing I know is Douglas Adams and I've read everything of his. Happy reading, Amy Z. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 19:42:51 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:42:51 -0500 Subject: What WB should REALLY sell Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7994 I do think the commercialization is a shame (don't even get me started on Chris "Home Alone 2" Columbus as director of OUR FILM), but just the same I have one suggestion for the turners-out of HP stuff. The upcoming video game, I've heard, is an adventure game. I think they are missing the boat bigtime. Adventure games come and go, and to me getting your black-haired alter ego past a computer grindylow is pretty much like getting your fatigues-clad alter ego past a computer bad guy in some other adventure game. What I want to do is PLAY QUIDDITCH! something only a video game can give us, until someone tires of the scooter mania and starts marketing jet-propelled broomsticks. I don't even need a Firebolt. I'd take a ride on a humble Clean Sweep anyday. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 19:51:45 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:51:45 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] What WB should REALLY sell Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 7995 In a message dated 12/28/00 2:44:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, aiz24 at hotmail.com writes: > Me too! When and if that ever comes out and when and if my husband can ever get his hands on PS2, he'll have a hard time dragging me away! -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Dec 28 20:05:01 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:05:01 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Terribly Obscure Question References: <92bjd0+ffeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000c01c07109$974faf00$913770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 7996 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott " To: Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:16 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Terribly Obscure Question > I know this is going to sound horribly obscure but I need to know > this for FanFic purposes, and I thought perhaps some of the Brits on > the list would know. > > There is a statue in Trafalgar Square. No, not the monument to > Horatio Nelson, but a statue of a tree on a book on a boat, or > something to that effect. I could use ANYTHING that anybody knows > about it...I actually have a picture of it but I know nothing of it's > history or even what it's called. *** Scott, I had a look at it on the way home from work. For those who haven't seen it (most of you, I imagine), it's a very striking sculpture depicting a leafless tree sitting askew on top of a closed book, which is balanced on top of a giant rat. The twisting roots of the tree are visible and trail over the other components and onto the plinth. I can't recall the title of it - something arty like 'in spite of the development of knowledge' - but I think the sculptor's name was is Bill Woodrow. The plaque said something about the sculpture being a reference to the development of knowledge in humankind (I should have noted this down, shouldn't I?). My interpretation of it is that the tree represents growth or evolution, the book is the knowledge of the human race and the rat is the tendency to use that knowledge in a corrupting or devious way. Because the sculpture is so awkwardly balanced it seems that knowledge and growth could topple at any moment leaving only the corruption underneath. There was much debate about what should be put on the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square and I'm ashamed to say I hadn't even noticed that it was now occupied by something so interesting. Thanks for making me look under my own nose! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 20:27:15 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:27:15 -0000 Subject: Number of students In-Reply-To: <92g0q6+9hkm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92g7n3+c0bp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7997 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > > Here's an interesting point, though. When I first read SS/PS, I > imagined a large student body, maybe 700-1000 kids. I have no idea > what gave me that impression. It wasn't anything I worked out or > spotted evidence of. I just got that idea from the way the place > sounded to me. I think that's the same thing that happened with Jo. > She just imagined it that way but didn't logic it all out. Then she > wrote details without thinking it through, but her overall picture, > the way she just describes the world Harry and his friends live in, > came through in her writing as being fairly large. We're trying to > fit those two views together, the general impressions and the > details, and they frankly don't fit. I think you're right - the two views don't fit, but I am pretty gifted at suspending disbelief, and I don't really have a problem with it. I decided that as it's a magical school with ghosts and disappearing stairs and rooms full of chamber pots that appear out of nowhere, maybe my muggle arithmatic doesn't work there. My backup plan is to just figure as JKR has managed to tell a fabulous story with great style and emotion, I'll cut her some slack on the details. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 20:52:01 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:52:01 -0000 Subject: Terribly Obscure Question In-Reply-To: <000c01c07109$974faf00$913770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <92g95h+7k7n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7998 I asked- "There is a statue in Trafalgar Square. No, not the monument to Horatio Nelson, but a statue of a tree on a book on a boat, or something to that effect. I could use ANYTHING that anybody knows about it...I actually have a picture of it but I know nothing of it's history or even what it's called." *** To which Neil Responded- "Scott, I had a look at it on the way home from work. For those who haven't seen it (most of you, I imagine), it's a very striking sculpture depicting a leafless tree sitting askew on top of a closed book, which is balanced on top of a giant rat. The twisting roots of the tree are visible and trail over the other components and onto the plinth. "I can't recall the title of it - something arty like 'in spite of the development of knowledge' - but I think the sculptor's name was is Bill Woodrow. The plaque said something about the sculpture being a reference to the development of knowledge in humankind (I should have noted this down, shouldn't I?). My interpretation of it is that the tree represents growth or evolution, the book is the knowledge of the human race and the rat is the tendency to use that knowledge in a corrupting or devious way. Because the sculpture is so awkwardly balanced it seems that knowledge and growth could topple at any moment leaving only the corruption underneath. "There was much debate about what should be put on the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square and I'm ashamed to say I hadn't even noticed that it was now occupied by something so interesting. Thanks for making me look under my own nose!" *** Thanks a bunch. I know this makes no sense whatsoever but it really helps my fanfic... Scott From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 21:09:53 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:09:53 -0000 Subject: Number of students In-Reply-To: <92g0q6+9hkm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ga71+geps@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 7999 Steve:"Here's an interesting point, though. When I first read SS/PS, I imagined a large student body, maybe 700-1000 kids. I have no idea what gave me that impression." I've always felt the sheer size of the castle argues for more students. Even 1000 is none too many for that large a building. 300 would look totally lost. [My daughters' elementary school has 366 students in six years. It's none too big.] There's plenty of room for teacher apartments, among other things. I'll bet there's large areas of Hogwarts we haven't seen or heard anything about. As for the Quidditch stands, that's the one area that can be explained away, at least a little. There's likely to be plenty of alumni, locals, and general school Quidditch fans in the stands at a game. The seating for 1200 at the Yule Ball is more persuasive to me. Steve:"But then there HAS to be more teachers. Take Snape for example. Suppose he's teaching Potions to every level, double classes. That means that he teaches two first year, two second year, etc. for a total of fourteen classes a week. Because they're long--an hour and a half--that would fill the week with time for a few lab classes with upper level kids who are specializing in Potions." Exactly. We've got to remember that these books are about Harry, not Hogwarts, and JKR has to leave out more than she puts in. [There's obviously going to be an 'Annotated Harry Potter' some day, just like my 'Annotated Sherlock Holmes.'] So there may be lots of people at Hogwarts who just aren't characters in the books. If Snape is the Potions MASTER, then are there mere instructors? The instructors can't all be using Time Turners. From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 21:22:04 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:22:04 -0000 Subject: Splitting Hairs In-Reply-To: <92g7n3+c0bp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92gats+j0rj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8000 Kimberley:" I think you're right - the two views don't fit, but I am pretty gifted at suspending disbelief, and I don't really have a problem with it." I don't either. I doubt Steve does. "My backup plan is to just figure as JKR has managed to tell a fabulous story with great style and emotion, I'll cut her some slack on the details." I agree completely. Her characters are outstanding and her themes are wonderfully sophisticated and subtle. We fans only split hairs like this about stuff we *like*. These stories are good enough that we seek every possible morsel and then work it to death. We all really like this world, and we don't want to leave it. Most of us would give an arm to visit Hogsmeade and Hogwarts for just one day. I might even forget to count heads while I was there. From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 28 21:24:01 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:24:01 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Splitting Hairs References: <92gats+j0rj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004d01c07114$808eca20$8543063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8001 Most of us would give > an arm to visit Hogsmeade and Hogwarts for just one day. > I'd love an afternoon chatting with Dumbledore or an afternoon with Sirius....but that's another matter entirely ( vbg ). Michelle From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Dec 28 21:29:08 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:29:08 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pardon me while I throw a childish fit... Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDFA@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8002 I want to study Transfiguration. I want to camp like the wizards do - don't give me a pup tent with no indoor plumbing! Angela From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 21:31:14 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:31:14 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Splitting Hairs Message-ID: <3d.55cb752.277d0b22@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8003 In a message dated 12/28/00 4:23:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, jferer at yahoo.com writes: > We fans only split hairs like this about stuff we *like*. These stories are > good enough that we seek every possible morsel and then work it to death. > We all really like this world, and we don't want to leave it. Most of us > would give > an arm to visit Hogsmeade and Hogwarts for just one day. > This brings to mind a favorite quote of mine.... "Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few are to be chewed and digested." -Frances Bacon -Mo Who would definitely give an arm or leg.... ********************************** "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 21:33:19 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:33:19 -0000 Subject: Astronomy + ideas for classes In-Reply-To: <92fi9f+3iee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92gbiv+kgdo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8004 Most of our modern-day Muggle studies had their origins in the study of magic anyway. The mystical and Muggle branches of these sciences have always co-existed. It's therefore hard to figure out how a wizarding student can get by without touching on math and language at least. BTW, I would say Ancient Runes would be history/language/sociology. Comparing Potions to "Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology" gave me a thought. I can just picture Snape as an executive chef somewhere. the personality fits. I like your other classes. Who is teaching "Neurythmics," Professor Lennox? > LINGOMANCY ? the study of spellcasting languages; > NUTRIGENESIS ? the science of creating tasty food items from the > ether; > NEURYTHMICS ?advanced training in the combination of magical > force and wrist action. > KINETAESTHETICS? the development of skills in the artistic > representation of moving images. > > Neil > > Christmas gifts: HP = 0; Socks = 0; Chocolate = 1 From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 21:44:32 2000 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (kazz2439 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:44:32 -0000 Subject: Newbie Message-ID: <92gc80+hgrb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8005 Hi all, Just joined Egroups to join HPforGrownups! I'm glad there are others out there like me who fit the "8+" age group. Quite like 16 + VAT lol. I'm only on the #3 Potter book, but I'm sure by the time I post again, I'll be half way through the fourth. Well, to introduce myself I'm 23 now .. too bad you caught me in December lol. I'd still be 22 in November =D. I'm a uni/college student in London. For more info, check out my yahoo profile as I don't know how long I can hold your attention here?? lol. Hope to meet some of you all soon and have a Happy New Year if I don't =) Best wishes Kazz From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Dec 28 21:48:27 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:48:27 +0100 Subject: Snape as a cook [OT] References: <92gbiv+kgdo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4BB529.E0F2ED39@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8006 Masoumi, an author from FFN, has a few drawings of Snape teaching cooking on her website: http://romanov28.tripod.com/ They are not to be missed ^_^. ~Firebolt Jim Ferer wrote: > Comparing Potions to "Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology" gave me a > thought. I can just picture Snape as an executive chef somewhere. the > personality fits. From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Dec 28 21:55:32 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:55:32 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape as a cook [OT] References: <92gbiv+kgdo@eGroups.com> <3A4BB529.E0F2ED39@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <009101c07118$e7578400$8543063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8007 > Masoumi, an author from FFN, has a few drawings of Snape teaching cooking on > her website: http://romanov28.tripod.com/ > > They are not to be missed ^_^. > Hi Clicked on link, but couldn't fine them. Any hints as to which ones they are ? Michelle From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 22:09:28 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:09:28 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pardon me while I throw a childish fit... Message-ID: <43.e94ee4a.277d1418@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8008 If there's any group of people who might understand, it's this one. Here goes: I want a wand I want to know what Butter Beer tastes like I want to fly on a broom, learn to apparate, and pet a baby unicorn I want a house elf (paid, of course, if they will accept it.) I want to shop in Diagon Alley I want to travel by Floo Powder I want a Cauldron Cake and some Pumpkin Juice I want all the photos in my albums to move I want to be an animagus (a dove, I think) I want a letter delivered by owl I want to see a real phoenix I want to slip a canary cream to an idiot boss I wanna easter egg, from Mrs. Weasley. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Dec 28 22:15:23 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:15:23 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape as a cook [OT] References: <92gbiv+kgdo@eGroups.com> <3A4BB529.E0F2ED39@urbanet.ch> <009101c07118$e7578400$8543063e@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <3A4BBB79.22F6A90B@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8009 Um...in the fanart section, I think in the 'cartoony fanart' or the sketches (or whatever they're called). Should be somewhere in there, anyway. ~Firebolt PS I just posted a fic which I desperately need feedback on, especially constructive criticism (well, what other kind of good feedback is there?), because it's particularly weird. If anyone cares to take a look, the link is: http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=155291. Thanks! Michelle Apostolides wrote: > > Masoumi, an author from FFN, has a few drawings of Snape teaching > cooking on > > her website: http://romanov28.tripod.com/ > > > > They are not to be missed ^_^. > > > Hi > > Clicked on link, but couldn't fine them. Any hints as to which ones > they are ? > > Michelle > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 28 22:22:42 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:22:42 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Unicode Hebrew Translator OT References: <003401c070d5$2deb1560$f0ac003e@default> Message-ID: <016301c0711d$389a4b00$d7c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8010 Computers ARE funny sometimes! This message still is in some iso-8859-8 and on my computer shows the letters that should be Swedish as vav and one of the signs that indicate an'i' sound, a single dot - I never can learn their real names, sorry catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Maya Crabtree Till: Skickat: den 28 december 2000 14:42 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Unicode Hebrew Translator > > >Maya, > >I am not certain what you have embedded in your message (see about for info > >about the original subject), but it asked me to download a "Unicode Hebrew > >translator" to view your message, something I am not familiar with. > > > >Does anyone else on the list know what this is, or why I gave me that > >message? > > > >Thanks! > >************************************************************ > >~~Dee~~ > > > I really have'nt a clue! I think it is possible to send hebrew through > Outlook Express, which I use for e-mail, but I hardly ever do it, as my > computer (as opposed to most conputers in Israel) is English-orintated. When > you Hebrew-orientate your computer it's not as simple as French or Spanish. > You have to have a completely new font. Everything also flips from right to > left. that's if it goes right. If it goes wrong, it might flip everything > upside down as if should, but might not display the hebrew letters - only > strange symbols. On the other hand, it might show the hebrew letters but > leave eerything left to right, so you would have to read everything left to > right, from the end of the word or the end of the sentence.... > Anyway, I don't use it in e-mail, especially not in this e-mail. and it > seems to have succeeded in sending other messages to this list in the last > two days. > Maybe it's when I made a mistake, and whilre replying to one out of the 25 > messages on the digest (which btw, does'n't seem to be daily, but more than > one a day ;-) ), I forogt to delete all the other message below theone I was > replying to and I think it sort of sent them back. Maybe I made another > mistake. This has'n't happened before... ;-) > > Maya > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Dec 28 22:43:26 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:43:26 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes In-Reply-To: <92fi9f+3iee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001228141252.00d30e90@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8011 At 02:21 PM 12/28/00 +0000, Flying Ford Anglia wrote: >*Herbology = Botany/Gardening >*Care of Magical Creatures = Zoology/Vetinary Science >*Arithmancy = Arithmetic/Mathematics >*Potions = Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology >[etc.]... This makes sense to me (especially as Snape reminds me of my college chemistry teacher). >... a few topics that don't seem to >be covered much at all: Terrestrial Geography (it's no wonder that >no one knows where anything is located), Modern Languages, English >Lit, Art, Music and Sex Education spring to mind. A quick OT question: What is Sex Ed. like in the UK? Over here in the States you need a note from your parents to take it, and at that they only discuss STD. (The rest they assume you learn for yourself behind the bike sheds.) >Overall, the curriculum seems very science-heavy and could do with an >injection from the creative arts. For example, I'd love to see >the Sorting Hat coaching the Hogwarts' School Choir ? that >would have so much comic potential. Shouldn't there at least be a course in Chanting? >LINGOMANCY ? the study of spellcasting languages; It seems to be this would be a part of Ancient Runes >NUTRIGENESIS ? the science of creating tasty food items from the >ether; I've been wondering -- Does creating things _ex nihilo_ come under the heading of Charms or Transfiguration? And *what* exactly is getting charmed or transfigured? Air? The Ether? Quantum Foam?? >KINETAESTHETICS? the development of skills in the artistic >representation of moving images. I like this one... *Someone* must have painted Hogwarts' paintings. To this I would add: -- Magical Maladies and Medicine (Where did Madam Pomfrey learn??) -- Magical Music (Maybe Dumbledore is trying to start this one at Hogwarts.) -- Magical Machinery: There's plenty of these in fantasy -- such as Tik-Tok the clockwork man in the Oz Books and the Sultan's mechanical flying horse in the movie _The Thief of Bagdad_ -- so it seems there should be a class. And things like the Weasley's clock could be covered. -- Magical Home Economics: How to get rid of garden gnomes, make sauce come out of your wand, etc. (Mrs. Weasley could teach this.) -- Fundamental Magical Physics: How Magic works on the most fundamental level... This would be the Magical equivalent of Quantum Physics. -- Dave From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 28 22:35:39 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:35:39 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes References: <92fi9f+3iee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017301c0711e$b42bc9a0$d7c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8012 Good work, Neil what about some sewing and knitting - magical or muggle? What would you call a subject like needlework in greek/latin? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Flying Ford Anglia Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 28 december 2000 15:21 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes I hope everyone had a great seasonal celebration of whatever variety. We had a fall of snow in London this morning (28th), so I feel really, really festive. My theory on Sinistra's subject (Astronomy) is that it incorporates elements of Mathematics and Physics from which the students would glean some Muggle-oriented science. Some of the other subjects mirror or incorporate regular school subjects as well. Here's my take on this: - *Herbology = Botany/Gardening *Care of Magical Creatures = Zoology/Vetinary Science *Arithmancy = Arithmetic/Mathematics *Potions = Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology *Astronomy = (Astro)physics/Mathematics/Geography (of the Heavens) *Charms = Latin/Drama/Kinetics *DADA = Physical Education/Chemistry/Physics *Divination = Mathematics/Psychology/Phisosophy/Lunacy *Ancient Runes = (a branch of Divination) *Transfiguration = Physics/Biology (bioenergetics)/Physical Education *History of Magic = History/Tolerance (of boredom) *Quidditch = Physical Education/Driving Lessons [US: Driver's Ed] *Muggle Studies = History/Sociology/Technology etc. Most of these subjects would include use of English Language in the writing of essays, but there are a few topics that don't seem to be covered much at all: Terrestrial Geography (it's no wonder that no one knows where anything is located), Modern Languages, English Lit, Art, Music and Sex Education spring to mind. Overall, the curriculum seems very science-heavy and could do with an injection from the creative arts. For example, I'd love to see the Sorting Hat coaching the Hogwarts' School Choir - that would have so much comic potential. *** How about dreaming up some new subjects for the students to study? Here are my suggestions: LINGOMANCY - the study of spellcasting languages; NUTRIGENESIS - the science of creating tasty food items from the ether; NEURYTHMICS -advanced training in the combination of magical force and wrist action. KINETAESTHETICS- the development of skills in the artistic representation of moving images. Neil Christmas gifts: HP = 0; Socks = 0; Chocolate = 1 eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 22:42:38 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:42:38 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <76.65f3d56.277d1bde@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8013 In a message dated 12/28/00 5:38:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, DaveH47 at mindspring.com writes: > >... a few topics that don't seem to > >be covered much at all: Terrestrial Geography (it's no wonder that > >no one knows where anything is located), Modern Languages, English > >Lit, Art, Music and Sex Education spring to mind. > > A quick OT question: What is Sex Ed. like in the UK? Over here > in the States you need a note from your parents to take it, and at that > they only discuss STD. (The rest they assume you learn for yourself > behind the bike sheds.) > I have to disagree. The school I teach at very thoroughly teaches sex ed between health and family consumer science classes, my sixth graders are very in the know. They recently came back from class giving all the gory details about childbirth to an expectant colleague of mine after they had just watched "The Miracle of Birth" in health. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 22:44:59 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:44:59 -0500 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8014 >Good work, Neil >what about some sewing and knitting - magical or muggle? What would you >call a subject like needlework in greek/latin? >catrina how about Tapestry Design, or wizard economics? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 22:47:04 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pardon me while I throw a childish fit... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8015 >If there's any group of people who might understand, it's this one. >Here goes: > > I want a wand > I want to know what Butter Beer tastes like > I want to fly on a broom, learn to apparate, > and pet a baby unicorn > I want a house elf (paid, of course, if they will accept it.) > I want to shop in Diagon Alley > I want to travel by Floo Powder > I want a Cauldron Cake and some Pumpkin Juice > I want all the photos in my albums to move > I want to be an animagus (a dove, I think) > I want a letter delivered by owl > I want to see a real phoenix > I want to slip a canary cream to an idiot boss > > >I wanna easter egg, from Mrs. Weasley. > >-Mo I want to be able to summon up things that i can't reach. Accio= i belive( if i have the wrong words, sorry, i don't have GoF in front of me.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 22:49:54 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:49:54 EST Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <80.4da31e3.277d1d92@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8016 In a message dated 12/28/00 5:46:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kassie21 at hotmail.com writes: > or wizard economics? > would that be anything like something d-o-o economics? voodoo economics? : ) apologetically, -Mo **************** "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Dec 28 23:04:02 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:04:02 -0000 Subject: Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele Message-ID: <92ggt2+bdi8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8017 Although I'm not a great reader of fanfic, I notice that a lot of what I have encountered tends toward the Romantic variety, a la Danielle Steele. JKR shows herself to be an exceptionally talented writer by *not* taking the "easy way" of focusing on hormone-driven plot devices. I suppose the fact that HP is supposed to be children's literature has something to do with that as well. Nevertheless, it seems to me that writing complex characterizations must be far more demanding than, for example, describing a kiss that is "not too wet, not too dry, and with just the right amount of tongue," as I read in one HP fanfic recently. JKR appears to be developing many of her characters at multiple levels, albeit slowly. Here are some of my thoughts on her better (i.e., more complex) characterizations: Snape is the first character that comes to mind with respect to complexity, but we have yet to see more than an inkling of his other side. I'm still holding out for the possibility that his behavior toward Harry is just a ploy for Voldemort's benefit. I'd like to know that he's more than just a colicky 8-year-old in a man's body. Harry has most of the conventional characteristics of a kid's book hero. However, he sometimes displays a hard edge, and can be too quick to judge, characteristics perhaps acquired while living with the Dursleys. I was very glad to see him buckle down and work in the last book -- this shows that he is maturing and growing more responsible. Maybe he'll even stop to read "Hogwarts, a History." Ron displays typical adolescent bone-headedness, but we get to see loyalty, courage, and humor as well. I think that JKR writes his character particularly well (I knew kids just like him in school). I know that people here have written that Ron is one of the *least* developed characters, but I think that JKR's writing accurately reflects Ron's level of maturation. Hermione is alternately a bookworm, a perfectionist, a rebel, and a girl who doesn't mind saying "pee" in front of boys. I don't fully grock her character yet -- like Harry and Ron, she has more growing- up to do before she is as developed and interesting as she could be. [Here's an evil thought: Hermione as Minister of Magic, with a stay- at-home husband named Dennis.] Hagrid, the cuddly bear figure, drinks too much, sometimes uses poor judgement, has been to prison (twice!), cusses, and violates the laws against harboring dangerous creatures whenever it suits him. He is perhaps one of JKR's most extensively described characters, and far better developed than an equivalent character in Narnia, for example. Filch is an excellent character for a second-stringer. I loved the Quik-Spell scene, which showed how his insecurities contributed to make him what he is. JKR obviously decided that inventing a relationship between him and Mrs Norris (F/MN) was not necessary in order to sell more books at the 7-11. Dumbledore, for me, remains one-dimensional in his role of providing the polar "good" in the story, just as Voldemort provides the polar "evil." Dumbledore is quirky and he makes mistakes, but he has *no* vices. Even the charge of moral relativism for allowing Harry et al to violate school rules can be dismissed because "it's for the good," an old fairy tale standby. Maybe a mild dose of Danielle would pep him up a little. Finally, I think that Draco is a fairly well-developed character already, but has a lot more room for growth (and not just so that he can fit more snugly in his leather pants). I hope JKR will take his character in an interesting direction. -Jim Flanagan [in his sweat-stained jerkin, flexing his rippling biceps] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Dec 28 23:13:15 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:13:15 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] The Dark is Rising was Serious Harry Withdrawal! References: Message-ID: <01cf01c07123$c25f6680$d7c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8018 Susan Cooper but who wrote The House with a Clock in its Walls ? I would like to read it. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kassie Ostrander Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 28 december 2000 19:01 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] The Dark is Rising was Serious Harry Withdrawal! I remember those books from when i was little! Anyway, i kind of want to read them again, can you please tell me who wrote them, so i'll be able to find them easily? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morine10 at aol.com Thu Dec 28 23:37:34 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:37:34 EST Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] The Dark is Rising was Serious Harry Withdrawal! Message-ID: <4b.56ffc5e.277d28be@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8019 > but who wrote The House with a Clock in its Walls ? I would like to read it. > catrina > A great book. John Bellairs is the author. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 23:39:04 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:39:04 -0000 Subject: Snape as a cook/Masoumi [OT] In-Reply-To: <3A4BB529.E0F2ED39@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <92giuo+d64c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8020 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Firebolt wrote: > Masoumi, an author from FFN, has a few drawings of Snape teaching cooking on > her website: http://romanov28.tripod.com/ > > They are not to be missed ^_^. > > ~Firebolt Let me add another recommendation... I also like Masoumi's fics. "A Special Lecture" was hilarious, and caused me to breathe a sigh of heady relief... I came *very* close to teaching the health (read: sex ed) elective to the 7th and 8th graders at my school last year. --Ebony (who really enjoyed Neil's Hogwarts course listings) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Dec 28 23:57:00 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:57:00 -0000 Subject: Splitting Hairs In-Reply-To: <92gats+j0rj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92gk0d+tstj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8021 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > I agree completely. Her characters are outstanding and her themes are > wonderfully sophisticated and subtle. We fans only split hairs like > this about stuff we *like*. These stories are good enough that we > seek every possible morsel and then work it to death. We all really > like this world, and we don't want to leave it. Most of us would give > an arm to visit Hogsmeade and Hogwarts for just one day. > > I might even forget to count heads while I was there. You're right - the stories are wonderful, and I'd be tempted to submit to some sort of minor amputation if there was a promise of a trip to Harry's world as a result. And there are tons of details I do wonder about when I'm daydreaming the possibilities. My pet 'I wonder' for the moment is - what was Dumbledore's role in Flamel's alchemy research? According to my admittedly muggle calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 when he was born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life expectancies are even longer than I thought) that he must already have been tippling a certain elixer. So what would there be left for Dumbledore to do? And if he really thinks that unlimited money and eternal life are the things that are worst for us, then why was he interested in the stone and alchemy in general to begin with? That's my favorite current puzzle. Probably this was already discussed long before I came around - if so, I'd love some direction on the matter - anybody got a link for me? Pondering, kimberly From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Dec 29 00:38:08 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:38:08 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes In-Reply-To: <76.65f3d56.277d1bde@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001228163657.00d28bf0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8022 At 05:42 PM 12/28/00 -0500, morine10 at aol.com wrote: >I have to disagree. The school I teach at very thoroughly teaches sex ed >between health and family consumer science classes, my sixth graders are very >in the know. They recently came back from class giving all the gory details >about childbirth to an expectant colleague of mine after they had just >watched "The Miracle of Birth" in health. Well, obviously all Sex Ed. courses are not created equal. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I went to school in Orange County, CA. -- Dave From morine10 at aol.com Fri Dec 29 00:57:27 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:57:27 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <8.e370268.277d3b77@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8023 Well, obviously all Sex Ed. courses are not created equal. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I went to school in Orange County, CA. Well that's just our school. Trying to keep those teen pregnancies down! When I was that age they shepherded the girls off one day and the boys another each to see "the movie." Personally I got all my info from ABC's After School Specials and Judy Blume books. High school health was better but by then you'd learned it all (or at least thought you had). I would think that Poppy Pomfrey (when she and Dumbledore aren't snuggling - thought I'd throw in my two knuts on that subject ) gives a sex ed. class to all students. Not an everyday class but maybe one or two a term. I bet the Weasley twins are her favorite students ::giggles:: -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 01:00:06 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:00:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8024 >As for the Quidditch stands, that's the one area that can be explained >away, at least a little. There's likely to be plenty of alumni, >locals, and general school Quidditch fans in the stands at a game. >The seating for 1200 at the Yule Ball is more persuasive to me. I have a though pertaining to that subject. If the other two schools are at Hogwarts for the Triwizard Tournament, then where are they holding classes. should't they be learning something, after all they are suppossed to be at school _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 01:02:28 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:02:28 -0500 Subject: Numbers, Newbie, Snape cooking, & Ford Anglia Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8025 >"My backup plan is to just figure as JKR has managed to tell a >fabulous story with great style and emotion, I'll cut her some slack >on the details." > >I agree completely. Her characters are outstanding and her themes are >wonderfully sophisticated and subtle. We fans only split hairs like >this about stuff we *like*. These stories are good enough that we >seek every possible morsel and then work it to death. I brought up the student numbers problem and I do agree--I don't really care if it doesn't work out logically, I just like to spend yet more mental time in Hogwarts sorting it out! Kazz, beware: there are spoilers galore and we don't warn about them. Read GoF fast! (I'm sure you don't need urging.) Dave wrote: >This makes sense to me (especially as Snape reminds me of >my college chemistry teacher). Oh, you poor man! I assume you decided against majoring in chemistry! He also wrote: >A quick OT question: What is Sex Ed. like in the UK? Over here >in the States you need a note from your parents to take it, and at that >they only discuss STD. Not where I went to high school (public school, e.g. free provided by the town, in Connecticut). It was part of "health" and we learned all sorts of stuff, even hiding under our desks in embarrassment. You probably could get *out* of it with a note from the parents if they were opposed. I'm curious, does anyone know the U.S. equivalent of a Ford Anglia? I like to picture these things. I hope it's an Escort (that's a tiny 2-door or, in 4-door, a small wagon, non-Yanks)--I love the thought of the 9 Weasleys piling into that little thing--illegally expanded on the inside, of course. Shades of clown cars. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 01:02:57 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:02:57 -0000 Subject: Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele In-Reply-To: <92ggt2+bdi8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92gns2+iolg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8026 Hi, Jim and all-- I *just* finished posting a list of characterizations unique to fanfic on the HP FanFiction list. GMTA! Anyway, I'm about to get on my soapbox... ::::The entire list runs away, plugging up their ears.:::: --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Although I'm not a great reader of fanfic, I notice that a lot of > what I have encountered tends toward the Romantic variety, a la > Danielle Steele. Oh, no! Poor Jim! Word of advice: never, ever venture to the HP ff.net corner without a specific author/title in mind. I used to sift through the site this summer, but I simply cannot bring myself to do it anymore. The rate of growth has been *exponential*... when I first arrived at the site in March, there were only 10-16 pages of fics (with between 50-100 fics listed on each I think). Now there are 300+ pages. Blaise, one of our members here, is extremely good for "serious fic" or non-romance recommendations... and quality MWPP stuff. I also love her fics... she's on my favorites page. I'm mostly into romance and unashamed of that fact, but I can point out a lot of good humor writers and those who write across the genres. Soapbox unrelated to Jim's post: A common misconception is that Paradigm of Uncertainty (as one R/H shipper termed it, "the H/H Bible") is purely or primarily romance. But it, its prequel ASA, and its sequel STNE are classified as *mysteries*! If these stories were made into movies, they wouldn't be shelved between the Jane Austen movies and the Meg Ryan flicks. They would go into the action/adventure or drama category. Cassie classified her Draco Dormiens series as romance... but it's more romantic comedy, and DS would be action/adventure also IMO. I've seen a few knock these ladies and other popular writers in the fandom for the "shippiness" (I tend to think it's sour grapes... if I don't like something I just don't recommend it, instead of going around ranting). Name a movie/book/video game *with a plot* that doesn't include even the barest hint of sentimentalism. In lit studies, feminist critics call this tendency "panopticism"--a cultural trait left over from chivalry, in which the archtypal female becomes objectified under the male gaze. I'm usually neutral on the gender debate, but I *do* point out the fact that there is a sad reason why our books have J.K. instead of Joanne Kathleen splashed on their covers. There are certain assumptions that are often implied about writers who happen to be female. Many of these assumptions are inaccurate. It's probably a lot easier to write Danielle Steele (who I've never read) than JKR. But a common misconception is that most romantic fiction has no plot. This is simply untrue and quite unfair. Yes, the market is flooded with cheap dime-store romances. Might I point out that the market is also flooded with poorly written thrillers, mysteries, Westerns, etc.? Brace yourself--most of the works in the Western canon deal with love as a major theme, if not *the* central theme. As a matter of fact, one sociologist has stated that the Achilles' heel of Western culture may be this obsession with "love of ____". (It would take a long time to explain his entire argument... and I digress.) Most people hear/see the word "love" and think of "eros"--romantic love. In fact, this is but a small subset of the l-word. How about: --love of family --love of a friend --love of country/planet/humanity --love of occupation --love of justice --love of power --love of knowledge --love of money etc. etc. ad nauseam These are generally cloaked under various synonyms (patriotism, greed, etc.). However, unmasked, these are all a type of love. And I'd daresay that you'd find some vestige of one of these Great Universal Ideas *somewhere* in almost any narrative. I've been told over and over by my writing teachers that it's far easier to write a plot-driven story than a character-driven one. When an author can write both effectively at the same time--you wind up with a Rowling or a Tolkien. Ending rant with this: There's a reason why I'd be willing to bet that more people know the plot of "Romeo and Juliet" than of "King Lear". > Nevertheless, it seems to me that writing complex >characterizations must be far more demanding >than, for example, describing a kiss that is "not too wet, not too >dry, and with just the right amount of tongue," as I read in one HP f>anfic recently. LOL! As for hormones... spend a day or two with modern kids the same age as the HP characters. I'll admit, not *all* kids in the upper range of the 10-14 age bracket are obsessed with the opposite sex... but some are. According to my older students (the eighth graders), they think it's extremely unrealistic that the HP characters are still in the "latent stage" at 14-15. I did counter with the arguments that have been batted around here (wizards live longer, they have to control their emotions/magical powers, etc.). But one of my students summed up their attitude about it this summer. "Yeah, well, they're not space aliens, Miss Thomas." I *do* agree with the value you place on subtle characterization, Jim. I absolutely love creating story-people. A snappy plot never draws me in. Interesting characters inevitably do. This is because I'm a people person... I find who people *are* more interesting than what they do. > Snape is the first character that comes to mind with respect to > complexity, but we have yet to see more than an inkling of his >other side. I'm still holding out for the possibility that his behavior toward Harry is just a ploy for Voldemort's benefit. I'd like to know that he's more than just a colicky 8-year-old in a man's body. Again, I think you'd like reading Blaise's work. She really does a good job probing into Snape's head, a place that I'd rather avoid. :) > Harry has most of the conventional characteristics of a kid's book > hero. However, he sometimes displays a hard edge, and can be too quick to judge, characteristics perhaps acquired while living with the Dursleys. I was very glad to see him buckle down and work in the last book -- this shows that he is maturing and growing more > responsible. Maybe he'll even stop to read "Hogwarts, a History." I agree with this totally. Harry to me was mainly a POV narrator in PS/SS and CoS. I didn't really start to feel as if he was a hero in the conventional sense until reading PoA. But GoF?I read the last four chapters on July 8 standing up and pacing around the room. Then I closed the book, got online, and spent the next week searching for adult fans. I just *had* to discuss the book... and had to tell someone besides my students that there had to be more behind Harry's scar/survival of the Killing Curse than met the eye. > Ron displays typical adolescent bone-headedness, but we get to see loyalty, courage, and humor as well. I think that JKR writes his > character particularly well (I knew kids just like him in school). I know that people here have written that Ron is one of the *least* > developed characters, but I think that JKR's writing accurately > reflects Ron's level of maturation. I still would like to see more Ron. We haven't seen as much of him in the last two books as we did in the first two. I think that Hermione's character was brought to the forefront more in PoA and GoF. I have a feeling they'll be less and less omnipresent as the books go on, though... if (as JKR says) GoF is to be the longest of the books, most of the remaining storyline *has* to be devoted to the rise of Voldemort/Snape/Dumbledore/Hagrid, Madame Maxime and the Giants/the Dementors and Azkaban, etc. So I'd say we might see less of the friends as the books go on... meaning they won't be at Harry's side as much. Or might not be able to. I'll leave your idea of Hermione alone, as she is my favorite character. I think the way JKR has "drawn" her is just fine... I can totally relate to her. ;) > Hagrid, the cuddly bear figure, drinks too much, sometimes uses poor judgement, has been to prison (twice!), cusses, and violates the laws against harboring dangerous creatures whenever it suits him. He is perhaps one of JKR's most extensively described characters, and far better developed than an equivalent character in Narnia, for example. YES! I adore Hagrid and totally agree with the above. I think he's underused in fanfic as well... and do think we'll be seeing a lot more of him in the last 3 books. > Dumbledore, for me, remains one-dimensional in his role of providing > the polar "good" in the story, just as Voldemort provides the > polar "evil." Dumbledore is quirky and he makes mistakes, but he has > *no* vices. Even the charge of moral relativism for allowing Harry et > al to violate school rules can be dismissed because "it's for the > good," an old fairy tale standby. Maybe a mild dose of Danielle would > pep him up a little. LOL! I'm no expert on fantasy/sci-fi, but I think we've said here that Dumbledore is the "guide" figure in the novels. How pepped up was Yoda? I'm not sure... > Finally, I think that Draco is a fairly well-developed character > already, but has a lot more room for growth (and not just so that > he can fit more snugly in his leather pants). I hope JKR will take > his character in an interesting direction. Leather aside, I think the Draco as developed by fans is perhaps the most probable fanon characterization of all. Lucius seems to be firmly fixed on the "pure evil" route... but will his son choose the same path? If rumor is correct (Jenna's site? An interview I read a long time ago?), Draco will play a key role in Book 7... assisting Harry in his final defeat of Voldemort. It would be more cliche to keep him unredeemable and evil. As always, I enjoyed reading your thought processes, Jim! Anyone else have a different take on the characters? --Ebony ************** "Love is not all; it it not meat nor drink, Nor slumber, nor a roof against the rain. Nor yet a floating spar to men that sink, And rise and sink, and rise and sink again. Love cannot fill the thickened lung with breath, Nor cleanse the blood, nor set the broken bone, Yet many a man is making friends with death Even as I speak, for lack of love alone." --Emily Dickinson From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 01:09:47 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:09:47 -0500 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8027 Here in Michigan, economics is required... so is govenment and health, so what else would be the equivalent to economics? Maybe they don't need it because everything that they need can just be summoned up. No economy to speak of. We also have to take law and i know they have courts and trials, so how could a wizard becomee a lawyer with out wizard law or such? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 01:10:47 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:10:47 -0000 Subject: Ford Anglia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92goan+blfg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8028 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > I'm curious, does anyone know the U.S. equivalent of a Ford Anglia? I like to picture these things. I hope it's an Escort (that's a tiny 2-door or, in 4-door, a small wagon, non-Yanks)--I love the thought of the 9 Weasleys piling into that little thing-- illegally expanded on the inside, of course. > Shades of clown cars. I have no idea what a Ford Anglia is or looks like... even after Neil told me in chat this summer. I feel very embarrassed about this fact, seeing as half my family works for Ford Motor Company and the extended lot of us drive nothing but Ford cars. (My mother nearly had a conniption when I asked for "a Camry or a Volvo" for college graduation.) Right now, I drive an Escort. It seats 2 normal-sized adults comfortably, 4 passably well, and although it has space for 5, it's a squeeze. If my car is anything like the Anglia, I think Molly Weasley needs her head examined... there is no way on earth 9 people could fit in an Escort without very obvious magic. I'm pretty sure there's an Anglia pic in the Files section here or over at our Yahoo! vacation home. :) --Ebony From gkallen2 at home.com Fri Dec 29 04:15:01 2000 From: gkallen2 at home.com (Greg and Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:15:01 -0800 Subject: GoF Question Message-ID: <00ef01c0714d$ea252fe0$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8029 Ok, I've almost finished listening to GoF (I'd already read it once). But I have a question, and it has probably come up, but I"m new, so if there are old posts, please just point me in the right direction. . . After Moody took Harry up to his office, after Harry escaped from Voldemort, Dumbledore told Snape to go get the truth serum, and also to go get Winky, the house elf from the kitchen. This was before they knew that the impostor Moody was actually Barty Crouch Jr. . . . How did he know?? Did I miss something?? How could he have ever suspected a dead man of impersonating Moody? Kelly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 01:18:16 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:18:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8030 Not to sound like a stupid american, but this has been driving me crazy. What does a bowler hat look like? can someone describe it to me? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Dec 29 01:23:44 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:23:44 -0000 Subject: Ages? Copyright-date-based dating In-Reply-To: <3A4AA723.87589890@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92gp30+7p6j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8031 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > nlpnt at y... wrote: > > c. 1996; Sony introduces PlayStation in North Am.& Europe. Dudley, of > > course, has one of the first. > > Dursley doesn't have a playstation until GoF though, and under your > timeline, he would wait 4 years to use his new playstation. > > Penny > > Not necessarily; he could've been using it all that time. Of course, that'd mean it'd have to have *lasted* all those years....a minor miracle where Dud's concerned ~:) From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 23:29:48 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8032 >We've had huge debates in the past about the ages of the older Weasley >kids -- hopefully the Weasley FAQ can be uploaded soonish so you can >more easily read the arguments we've advanced. I'm in the Bill is 26/27 >in GoF camp. I put Charlie at 24-26 in GoF camp. You have to look at >all the statements in the books about when Gryffindor last won the >Quidditch Cup & House Cup & such to start really piecing it together. >Simon has done a good draft of the Weasley FAQ so far so ... as soon as >we can get our act together & start uploading these FAQs, you'll see >what I mean. > >Penny My assumptions on this were from Book 3, when they talked about Not having won the Quidditch Cup in 8 years, since Charlie was captain...That would make Charlie about 21-22 at the time of that book bc i am assuming that they were talking the last time they won was his 7th year...And i always just got the feeling that Bill wasn't that much up on him. I dont have my books either(part of the sorrow of spreading HP to the world) so i could be wrong about this..... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Dec 29 01:42:47 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:42:47 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEDFF@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8033 Have you seen the TV show the "Avengers" with Patrick MacNee? He wears a bowler hat. KInd of round on top like a bowling ball. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kassie Ostrander [SMTP:Kassie21 at hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:18 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats > > > > Not to sound like a stupid american, but this has been driving me crazy. > What does a bowler hat look like? can someone describe it to me? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Dec 29 01:56:02 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:56:02 -0000 Subject: Ford Anglia In-Reply-To: <92goan+blfg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92gqvi+mf3r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8034 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > I'm curious, does anyone know the U.S. equivalent of a Ford > Anglia? I like to picture these things. I hope it's an Escort > (that's a tiny 2-door or, in 4-door, a small wagon, non-Yanks)--I > love the thought of the 9 Weasleys piling into that little thing-- > illegally expanded on the inside, of course. > > Shades of clown cars. > > I have no idea what a Ford Anglia is or looks like... even after Neil > told me in chat this summer. There are plenty of pics at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/2640/index.html And the Anglia is a 1960s car about Ford Aspire/Chevy Metro sized. It was imported into the US while American Ford didn't make anything near that small. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 29 04:17:15 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:17:15 -0600 Subject: Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele References: <92gns2+iolg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4C104B.BF0FD3F8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8035 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > Oh, no! Poor Jim! Word of advice: never, ever venture to the HP > ff.net corner without a specific author/title in mind. I'll second that! It sounds as though, from the phrase that you quoted to us in a fanfic you'd read, you've been reading fanfic written by an inexperienced writer, probably a teenage girl if I had to guess (NOT that I'm saying that *all* teenage girls are inexperienced writers who only write mindless drivel). Anyway .... Ebony's point is well-taken. The better fanfics are "found" by word-of-mouth recommendations (much like in the pre-HP-craze days over in the UK, when PS was propelled onto the bestseller lists by word of mouth recommendations). There are certain authors that are well-established as good fanfic writers -- the Fanfic FAQ will have rather a nice listing for everyone. In the meantime, ask around & you can find the better quality stuff. Sifting through 14,000 fanfics randomly is not a good way to find the good stuff. As Ebony mentioned, Blaise writes great MWPP stuff (and can probably point you in the direction of other good MWPP fics). PoU is, IMHO, the *best* HP fanfic out there, and like Ebony I don't think it's even remotely a Danielle Steele romance. >From your comments, I'd gather you've read Cassie's Draco series -- another fic I'd recommend highly. Ebony might have neglected to mention her own ongoing fic, but I can assure you it's well-worth a trip over to fanfiction.net to give it a whirl. We have several other wonderful fanfic writers in our midst, depending on your taste. > Soapbox unrelated to Jim's post: A common misconception is that > Paradigm of Uncertainty (as one R/H shipper termed it, "the H/H > Bible") is purely or primarily romance. But it, its prequel ASA, > and its sequel STNE are classified as *mysteries*! If these stories > were made into movies, they wouldn't be shelved between the Jane > Austen movies and the Meg Ryan flicks. They would go into the > action/adventure or drama category. Bravo, Ebony! Thanks. Carole & I did classify ASA as a romance, simply because we perceived our action plot wasn't nearly as central to the fic we were planning as it is in PoU. PoU is correctly classified as mystery (could also go under action or drama easily enough). It has a strong romance subplot, no question about that. But, it is primarily a mystery in my mind. > Cassie classified her Draco Dormiens series as romance... but it's > more romantic comedy, and DS would be action/adventure also IMO. I would agree with that as well. > I've seen a few knock these ladies and other popular writers in > the fandom for the "shippiness" (I tend to think it's sour > grapes... if I don't like something I just don't recommend it, instead > of > going around ranting). Again -- thanks! I'd hate to think that ASA is a Danielle Steele sort of story. Haven't read any Steele since I was 17 or so but ... I think I remember the gist of it all enough that I'd take offense if ASA were lumped into that genre. > It's probably a lot easier to write Danielle Steele (who I've never > read) than JKR. But a common misconception is that most romantic > fiction has no plot. This is simply untrue and quite unfair. Yes, > the market is flooded with cheap dime-store romances. Might I point > out that the market is also flooded with poorly written thrillers, > mysteries, Westerns, etc.? Yeah .... Zane Grey comes to mind. There must be at least as many of those type books churned out as Harlequin romances. > According to my older students (the eighth graders), they think it's > extremely unrealistic that the HP characters are still in the "latent > stage" at 14-15. I did counter with the arguments that have been > batted around here (wizards live longer, they have to control their > emotions/magical powers, etc.). But one of my students summed up > their attitude about it this summer. "Yeah, well, they're not space > aliens, Miss Thomas." ROFL! That's great! I think I do have to agree with them that the issue should be expanded more in Book 5 when the characters are 15 to stay within JKR's promise to age the characters believably. > I agree with this totally. Harry to me was mainly a POV narrator in > PS/SS and CoS. I didn't really start to feel as if he was a hero > in the conventional sense until reading PoA. I thought he was a conventional hero for the most part in CoS, but I do see the point that his character takes a dramatic turn in PoA. > But GoF?I read the last four chapters on July 8 standing up and pacing > around the room. I did too -- how funny! I was also muttering "No .... no ..... not Sirius ... dementor in the castle ... no.... not Sirius ... do I dare turn the page, there's a dementor in the castle .... no..." for a good 20 pages. My husband wandered into the room, already thinking I'd taken complete leave of my senses since I did *nothing* on July 8th except read GoF, and he really thought I'd lost it. > I'll leave your idea of Hermione alone, as she is my favorite > character. I think the way JKR has "drawn" her is just fine... I can > totally relate to her. ;) She's my favorite character as well ... and I'll echo Ebony -- I wouldn't change a thing about her character. I *love* her just the way she is. > > Dumbledore, for me, remains one-dimensional in his role of > providing > the polar "good" in the story, just as Voldemort provides > the > polar "evil." Dumbledore is quirky and he makes mistakes, but > he has > *no* vices. Even the charge of moral relativism for allowing > Harry et > al to violate school rules can be dismissed because "it's > for the > good," an old fairy tale standby. Maybe a mild dose of > Danielle would > pep him up a little. Well, Neil & I are both expecting that Dumbledore will be shown to be less one-dimensional in the next book. I think there must be more there (and no, it has nothing to do with that "gleam" in his eye). I just don't think he's completely white. Nice topic Jim ... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Dec 29 05:14:22 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:14:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats References: Message-ID: <00a301c07156$34f56f00$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8036 Ok....Neil, folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I always pictured a bowler as the hat that Mr. Banks wears in the Mary Poppins, the one the Bankers "pop". On a different note, watched WWonka and the Chocolate factory (always makes me want chocolate, dang, and all out too!), and there was a slimey teacher in there played by (hunts up the paper she wrote it on...aha!) David Battley. As he was around in the 70's, do you think there is any chance that his looks are what Snape was based on? He played the teacher who was making "wart remover" with the chemicals.... ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Kassie Ostrander To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:18 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats Not to sound like a stupid american, but this has been driving me crazy. What does a bowler hat look like? can someone describe it to me? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 29 04:40:08 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:40:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele References: <92ggt2+bdi8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000701c07151$6d004dc0$9ec54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8037 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Flanagan To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 6:04 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele Dumbledore, for me, remains one-dimensional in his role of providing the polar "good" in the story, just as Voldemort provides the polar "evil." Dumbledore is quirky and he makes mistakes, but he has *no* vices. Even the charge of moral relativism for allowing Harry et al to violate school rules can be dismissed because "it's for the good," an old fairy tale standby. Maybe a mild dose of Danielle would pep him up a little. I think you fail to do Dumbledore justice: sure, there are times - usually at the end of each book - in which he seems to be little more than JKR's mouthpiece, issuing forth the moral of the story - but we must also keep in mind (1) His rather perverse sense of whimsy , which is perpetually on display - from his initial appearance in SS/PS, in which he claims to have a scar that is a perfect map of the London, to the outlandish jokes that he uses to greet new Hogwarts arrivals, and on to such claims to have discovered "a beautifully proportioned room I have never seen before, containing a really rather magnificent collection of chamber pots (GoF, Ch. 22 - a "chamber of secrets, " indeed!). His description of himself before the Mirror of Erised is surely to be interpreted likewise. (2) A critic once described PG Wodehouse's Jeeves as "Iago in a sort of benign retirement." Could not the same thing be said of Dumbledore? There is a certain feeling I get that he is manipulating Harry like a chess-piece in his renewed campaign against Voldemort - that he is using Harry in a just cause, a cause that Harry willingly aligns himself with, makes it no less manipulative. Note how Dumbledore uses Harry to get back the Philosopher's Stone - or how the Invisibility Cloak just "happens" to fall into Harry's hands - or how he all but forces Hermione to reveal her secret time-turner to Ron and Harry, and then send them out with it on an extraordinarily dangerous mission. Does anyone really believe that Harry came across Dumbledore's Pensieve only because he failed to lock it up properly? (If so, see me for some great deals on Privet Drive condos I'm being forced to part with). The marvelously subversive passage in GoF Chap. 36, in which Harry notes the gleam of triumph in Dumbledore's eyes surely does not mean that Dumbledore is a hidden ally of Evil - but, just as disturbingly, it may mean that as an agent of Good, he must be willing to sacrifice others he truly cares about in order to achieve Evil's defeat..... And please keep even a mild does of Danielle far far distant from us all.................... - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lavieboheme19 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 29 04:40:43 2000 From: lavieboheme19 at yahoo.com (Ellen Glassie) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:40:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pardon me while I throw a childish fit... Message-ID: <20001229044043.15763.qmail@web6304.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8038 >I wanna easter egg, from Mrs. Weasley. I wanna Weasley Sweater... Oh wait, I have one. I wanna Weasley... Ellen ===== Angelina_Johnson at HarryPotterNetwork.zzn.com "So, Janey, how was school?" "It was okay." "Just okay?" "No, dad, it was spectacular." American Beauty __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Dec 29 04:53:10 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 04:53:10 -0000 Subject: Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele In-Reply-To: <3A4C104B.BF0FD3F8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92h5bm+n45i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8039 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: Ebony wrote: Soapbox unrelated to Jim's post: A common misconception is that Paradigm of Uncertainty (as one R/H shipper termed it, "the H/H Bible") is purely or primarily romance. But it, its prequel ASA, and its sequel STNE are classified as *mysteries*! If these stories were made into movies, they wouldn't be shelved between the Jane Austen movies and the Meg Ryan flicks. They would go into the action/adventure or drama category. > Penny wrote: "Bravo, Ebony! Thanks. Carole & I did classify ASA as a romance, simply because we perceived our action plot wasn't nearly as central to the fic we were planning as it is in PoU. PoU is correctly classified as mystery (could also go under action or drama easily enough). It has a strong romance subplot, no question about that. But, it is primarily a mystery in my mind." Oh, I'll go ahead and 'me too' that...why not. (*grins about the 'H/H Bible' term...I think I remember seeing that.*) While the romance subplot is central to both PoU and ASA neither one of them is *only* romance and I think PoU is correctly classified as a mystery. While ASA has both romance and a mystery plotlines, I would probably characterize it as drama since it deals with all sorts of relationships, not just romantic ones...although as Ebony pointed out there are all sorts of love and a story lacking in any sort of love at all would be pretty tedious. There might not be much in the way of romantic love in the canon at this point, but there's plenty of other kinds of love to keep it interesting...Harry's mother's love for him, Sirius' love for his friends and for Harry, Harry and Hermione and Ron's friendship for each other approaches love IMHO. Ebony wrote: Cassie classified her Draco Dormiens series as romance... but it's more romantic comedy, and DS would be action/adventure also IMO. > Penny wrote: I would agree with that as well. Yes...I had a hard time deciding how to classify DD, since it was meant to be humor primarily, then romance and mystery, but I finally classified it as romance so as to avoid the rage of those who hate seeing *any* romance in their HP fics -- I figured they might as well be warned. I also agree about DS being action/adventure and have changed its categorization on ff.net to reflect that. (If only they had a romantic comedy adventure category, but alas...) Ebony wrote: I've seen a few knock these ladies and other popular writers in the fandom for the "shippiness" (I tend to think it's sour grapes... if I don't like something I just don't recommend it, instead of going around ranting). Thanks Ebony. Hey, I'm happy just to be insulted in the same category as Lori, Penny and Carole. But it's nice to be defended. I guess I have two Patronuses now, a Heidi-shaped one and an Ebony- shaped one... Cassie From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 29 06:02:10 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 06:02:10 -0000 Subject: Bowler/Classes/Ford Anglia Message-ID: <00d501c0715d$39fdb780$3c3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8040 BOWLER HATS Kassie asked: <<>> Dee suggested: <<>> I think a bowler hat (bowler) is similar to an American Derby; it's a short, hard, felt hat (usually black) with a rounded dome and an even brim which turns up slightly at the edges. The hat Dee described is a top hat, opera hat or stovepipe, if IIR-Mary Poppins-C. Contrary to popular belief, bowlers aren't worn by *every* British businessman. An American friend of mine told me that when he first moved to London he expected all the businessmen to be wearing bowler hats, carrying rolled umbrellas and sporting military moustaches. He was quite disappointed when they weren't. HOGWARTS' CLASSES Firstly, the Wizarding Economics class is, naturally enough, called ECOGNOMICS. I imagine that it's taught by Griphook on release from Gringott's. *** I suggested: and Dave H said: "It seems to [me] this would be a part of Ancient Runes". I thought Runes were stones marked with glyphs, that were used for divining, rather like Tarot Cards? I'll add that Lingomancy would be paired with MAGICAL TONGUES - the study of such languages as Mermish, Elvish and Gobbledegook. *** Dave also asked: <<>> I'm not sure if there is something specific on the curriculum these days: there really ought to be. In my day (we're going back some years now), at primary level - about age 8 - we had a "meet a real live baby" session, which was meant to focus discussion on matters sexual. As it happened, I'd already met the baby and its mother, since they were my own brother and Mummy. This didn't stop me piping up with the question: "Can someone be a man and a woman at the same time?" to which the teacher replied: "Yes, but it's very rare." At secondary level, it was a combination of drawing the gonads of gentlemen and ladies in Biology lessons and discussing human sexuality with a 'trendy singing vicar' in Divinity (religious instruction). Behind the bike sheds was certainly the best place to learn about sex and drugs and rock'n'roll. FORD ANGLIA We're fairly sure that the Weasleys' car is a nippy 1960s Ford Anglia (a 105E) and not the earlier design, which was popular in the 40s and 50s. The 105E is depicted on the cover of CoS (UK edition) and JKR arrived in one when she launched GoF at King's Cross Station this year. It is a tiny car, which is important to the humour in references to the magically roomy seats and capacious boot. In reality, four people squeezed into a Muggle version would feel a bit like four gorillas in a shoebox. Neil (105E - also with a roomy seat, but on a diet) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 20:16:00 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:16:00 -0500 Subject: Fred or George (was Merchandise for Christmas...) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8041 Ellen wrote: >She was also under the false >impression that Ron was my favorite, so she made the >maroon one, with the W, whereas Fred is my favorite. Sounds like a cool sweater just the same! What a mom. I hope you like maroon better than Ron does. Ellen and others who prefer Fred to George or George to Fred, tell me: what's the difference between them, as you see it? I can't tell who's talking half the time, much less notice a difference in their personalities. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 08:21:41 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:21:41 -0000 Subject: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) Message-ID: <92hhil+5re1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8042 Awake much later than intended... again... While surfing I found a website that eloquently states the evangelical position against the Harry Potter novels. http://www.worthynews.com/harry-potter.html As an evangelical myself, I think it sums up the official "Religious Objections" position better than any website I've seen. (FAQ writers, are you listening? Or... um... am I supposed to be authoring the FAQ on religion? I thought mine were gender and ethnicity! Uh-oh...) Of course, no mention is made of any other children's fantasy novel that contains many of the same elements (if not more) of the Harry Potter books. No mention is made of fairy tales, of folklore, of even certain passages of the Bible that you don't read to your children. If we Christians are going to argue that Harry Potter is evil, I say we should argue fairly. That's the one thing that concerns me about Christian apologetics. It's like with the Great Ship Debates (had to slip it in somewhere!)... if you are truly correct (like H/H is ;)), lay all of your cards on the table and allow all opponents to do the same. The Right Answer should be obvious. Rationalism is never employed in any anti-HP drivel I've ever seen. If ever I suddenly decide that HP is wicked and compromising my faith (unlikely--been there, done that already), I'll offer up my services as a children's lit specialist-in-training and help construct an argument for Why Harry Potter is a Sign of the Impending End of the World that's a tad more bulletproof than what's currently out there. As one who loves and works with children, and as a Christian who's listened to the hysteria over The Systemic Demonic Corruption of Youth since my conversion, I am more than a little concerned with a growing trend in modern conservative Christianity that the anti-Harry Potter sentiment is a symptom of: isolationism. Instead of being salt and leaven, many serious Christians are choosing to bubble themselves off from the rest of the world, calling anything that is threatening or different "evil" and refusing to touch it. Thank God Jesus wasn't like that. But anyway... One point the site brings up that I readily agreed with is that the books are eerily addicting... hmm... maybe it *is* a vast left-wing conspiracy to force bad things like multiculturalism, globalism, and relativism upon unsuspecting children and adults! (shaking head) If you're of another religion, you *can't* appreciate how totally against HP most evangelical and Pentecostal ministers are. I'm starting to see why the arguments against HP are honestly bewildering most reasonable non-religious people... you can't understand the arguments unless you comprehend the evangelical and/or Pentecostal worldview on what Harry Potter represents in the Grand Scheme of Things. I have dear friends and family who sincerely think my HP obsession means that I'm starting to "backslide"... a significant number would question my very relationship with God (which, quite frankly, has nothing do with them anyway). My collegiate pastor would have a fit if he knew my best friend and I devoured the books. Of course, I was always the type to ask questions during Bible study like "Why are we boycotting ---fill in the blank with some prohibited vice--- and not absolutely everything else that contradicts a Biblical worldview?" so it probably wouldn't come as a total surprise. I came to Christianity as an adult and had the tendency to ask too many annoying questions. Believe it or not, once upon a time (and not too long ago, at that) I would have eaten up every word of this rhetoric. And now I realize that my own prejudices and fears would have had me miss out on a wonderful book series whose author's motive isn't being a cog in the formation of the New World Order or to Open Young Minds... but simply to entertain. I'm a committed Christian who happens to love Harry Potter. Some may think that's a paradox. I don't. Hey, where's Aberforth's Goat when you need him? --Ebony (who, due to more than 10-15% of parents/children "opting out", made the choice to table her Harry Potter unit this school year) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 08:36:57 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:36:57 -0000 Subject: Fred or George (was Merchandise for Christmas...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92hif9+sfso@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8043 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > Ellen and others who prefer Fred to George or George to Fred, tell me: what's the difference between them, as you see it? I can't tell who's talking half the time, much less notice a difference in their personalities. Thanks, Amy. I'd like to know the differences too. I really didn't notice any until GoF. At first, I thought Fred was the mouth and George was the brain of the duo. But in GoF (Ch. 23, "The Dream"?), when Harry, Ron, and Hermione are up in the owlery they overhear a conversation between the twins. Fred wants to go ahead and "convince" Bagman to pay the money they won in the World Cup bet; George is saying "it's wrong, it's blackmail". From this, I'd say the blackmail is Fred's idea and George is trying to talk him out of it. Hmm... interesting to contemplate. How do you differentiate between the twins? Which one is older? Which one more assertive? Which one more introspective? We have evidence that their own mother (PS/SS) and father (GoF) can't tell them apart. One wonders if JKR has separate Fred and George characterization files... or if all of their traits fall into one catch-all "Twin" category. And if she hasn't thought of them separately, how can we, as the reader? Of course, I have my own impressions, which are perhaps not supported by the books. Needless to say, I hope this thread of discussion isn't dropped immediately. --Ebony From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 08:43:17 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:43:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Marcus Flint Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8044 I know, we are all so anal with the incongruancies in the plot line, and we should be focusing on the story, but I look upon all of us, myself included, as having our notice of them being attributed to our supreme knowledge and vast fandom. So yes, that little piece was me warming up to say I found one that I didn't remember being discussed before and was wondering if anyone ahd an explanation. In Book 1, Marcus Flint is described as being a 6th year. Now, we all know that students spend 7 years at Hogwarts, and I would think that if you failed a level, they wouldnt be keen on your continuing with things. So, If Flint is STILL Slytherin Captain in PoA, that would put him in his 8th year....was this ever explained, because i certainly dont remember it to be so. In case there is a ? as to how I know he is a 6th year, and some people on this list question everything kidding kidding, i was kind enough to enclose the quote. "Harry noticed that she seemed to be speaking particularly to the Slytherin Captain, Marcus Flint, a 6th Year" SS p 185 HC 1st American Edition Stephanie Wishing she could be on the Quidditch team and spend some time with Fred Weasley ;) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 08:53:50 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:53:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fred or George (was Merchandise for Christmas...) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8045 >Ellen and others who prefer Fred to George or George to Fred, tell me: >what's the difference between them, as you see it? I can't tell who's >talking half the time, much less notice a difference in their >personalities. > >Amy This to me, has always been easy. I always looked at George as the more grounded, the more polite, who enjoys his escapades but is more along for the ride than anythng else. Kind of insecure, like Ron in the sense that he feels he has to prove himself, and the only way to do so is to live up to his role as a part of the weasley duo. Fred, whom i fancy ;), Is the more outgoing, zany, and funloving but equaly intelligent, i always felt like he kinda lacked some of good old george's morals(remember, george offered to help harry with his trunk). While yes, it can become difficult at times when JKR gives you the firsat twin to spart speaking and then refers to them merely as the other twin, i can sometimes catch by watching order, or by the way they phrase things. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Dec 29 09:52:06 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:52:06 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Marcus Flint/Number of students Message-ID: <01C071D9.3AAAFC20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8046 I think the only likely idea anyone came up with about Marcus Flint is that he had to repeat a year (didn't get the NEWTS he need to get into the ministery!) On the number of students thing (and why not) What about streaming? Admittedly nothing is said about this to support or otherwise this idea but the Knight bus' Ernie had to go to school somewhere and if Hogwarts is the only magical high school in the UK then this would have been it. Also, did I just dream that someone said that in CoS in "the Rogue Bludger" there was a reference to 200 Slytherins booing and hissing the Gryffindors while the rest of the school cheered them on. Because in my Brit/Aust ed there is no reverence to a specific number (p 126). 200 would make the 1000 sort of credible (if you factored in streaming and so on) storm -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie Becvar [SMTP:StephBecvar at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 6:43 PM To: HPforGrownUps at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Marcus Flint I know, we are all so anal with the incongruancies in the plot line, and we should be focusing on the story, but I look upon all of us, myself included, as having our notice of them being attributed to our supreme knowledge and vast fandom. So yes, that little piece was me warming up to say I found one that I didn't remember being discussed before and was wondering if anyone ahd an explanation. In Book 1, Marcus Flint is described as being a 6th year. Now, we all know that students spend 7 years at Hogwarts, and I would think that if you failed a level, they wouldnt be keen on your continuing with things. So, If Flint is STILL Slytherin Captain in PoA, that would put him in his 8th year....was this ever explained, because i certainly dont remember it to be so. In case there is a ? as to how I know he is a 6th year, and some people on this list question everything kidding kidding, i was kind enough to enclose the quote. "Harry noticed that she seemed to be speaking particularly to the Slytherin Captain, Marcus Flint, a 6th Year" SS p 185 HC 1st American Edition Stephanie Wishing she could be on the Quidditch team and spend some time with Fred Weasley ;) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From SHENmagic at aol.com Fri Dec 29 11:02:04 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 06:02:04 EST Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20[HPforGrownups]=20Digest=20Number=20378?= Message-ID: <4e.f69b3c1.277dc92c@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8047 In a message dated 12/28/00 3:31:16 PM, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: >I wish I knew of something like HP > >for sheer inventiveness and humor. Try Diane Duane's Door into Fire- humor, beauty, angst, quests, simplicity, magic, and for the "shippers" a gay relationship that broadens a bit.. --Aylihael When incognito...do as the cognitoes do From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Thu Dec 28 14:52:54 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:52:54 +0200 Subject: Snape's age, JKR's killing everybody, etc. Message-ID: <000001c0718a$d713d2c0$24ad003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8048 >Someone wrote: >"Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that she writed for >children, ah!!! I can't believe myself. WRITED? WRITED? WROTE. Where's my English pride??? ;-) Must be all the late night e-mailing...:-) (and now to the issue at hand..;-) : ) > The books as someone else wrote won't become Horror >Films. If there are numerous deaths it doesn't mean that the story >is going to be reduced to a violent bloody massacre. > >I think this is what Maya was trying to say. Perhaps it wasn't >though. > It's close, Scott. Thanks. :-) I did explain myself though in my reply to Penny's e-mail, so I suppose you'd have read it by now...;-) hope it's clearer. Charmain wrote: >The older characters, IMO are probably more likely to get killed off. >I don't see Dumbledore dying until VII or the very end of VI at >least, because he's too important to the plot and structure of the >series. Though I do suspect he will die, because they're always >talking about how old he is, and the mentor dies quite frequently >too. ;-) I feel that I'm always behind. I've only been mailing for 3 days, but nearly always after writing a new reply, I read on and see that someone';s already exprssed a very similar opinion before me... Stephanie wrote: >I have a question, i read somewhere, maybe on this list maybe not, that >someone assumed sirius, lupin, snape, etc. were about 43. This makes no >sense to me, bc that would make Lily around 30 when she had Harry. I always >assumed, that they got married in their early twenties, or even right after >they graduated Hogwarts. It would make sense that the wedding would happen, >Harry would be born, and that would be about the time things started going >really awry, > Anyways, I >always assumed Sirius and co to be younger than that, more like about 35, Well, since I only read each book twice, I don't remember everything. So I can't be sure. however, I do rmember a couple of months ago, when they had just started anouncing th cast for the film production, that they wrote (it was a site in hebrew) somehting like: "In the role of the Proffessor Snape we will be seeing Alan Rickman. Originally Tim Roth was cast for this role but for reasons we do not know as yet, they found a substitute. Also, Alan Rickman's age is better suited for the 40 year old Prof. Snape". So I wonder what this estination was based upon? I mean, I like both actors, and am vaguely femiliar with Rickman's age, (haven't a clue what Roth's age is exactly) - but even if Snape WERE 40 - I don't see that one would be more suitable than the other as far as their age appears on their faces. Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Thu Dec 28 17:30:32 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:30:32 +0200 Subject: Snape as a spy Message-ID: <000101c0718a$d88cb720$24ad003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8049 >2)"who I believe has left me forever" (probably Snape) Now that I think about it, this statement, assuming it refers to Snape, does not rule out the possibility of Snape's coming back. ALthough Snape isn't aware that Voldermort said those exact words, they do imply that at least for voldermort, it's not 100% CERTAIN that Snape won't come back. "I believe" is not "I know" . Maybe this leaves him the option to return? even if Voldermort won't accept him... From duo at dangerous-minds.com Fri Dec 29 12:16:53 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:16:53 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of students In-Reply-To: <92fkpq+if7d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8050 >Nathan:" Maybe Hogwarts is set up so that Slytherin and Griffindor >are the hardest to get into, and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw have more >students..." Err, this wasn't me. Nathan From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Dec 29 11:56:31 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:56:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) References: <92hhil+5re1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <012701c0718f$01c31cc0$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8051 > Of course, no mention is made of any other children's fantasy novel > that contains many of the same elements (if not more) of the Harry > Potter books. No mention is made of fairy tales, of folklore, of > even certain passages of the Bible that you don't read to your > children. Some christian society (I've forgotten the name of this one) said that Philip Pullman's books are even more bunrworthy than the HP books. That was a sentence that frightened, because if you get to *burning books* you're already quite far down the fashist lane. Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Dec 29 12:02:47 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:02:47 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's age, JKR's killing everybody, etc. References: <000001c0718a$d713d2c0$24ad003e@default> Message-ID: <012f01c0718f$43354340$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8052 > Also, Alan Rickman's age is better suited for > the 40 year old Prof. Snape". Huh, sorry??? AR is 54... and Tim Roth is 39. I think they got something wrong here. Dinah From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 29 13:14:34 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:14:34 -0000 Subject: Marcus Flint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92i2nq+5hrr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8053 Stephanie Becvar wrote: <<<[Marcus Flint] is STILL Slytherin Captain in PoA, that would put him in his 8th year....was this ever explained, because i certainly dont remember it to be so.>>> It wasn't explained in the books, but in message #5141 I reported on JKR's appearance on the UK radio programme, "Desert Island Discs," during which she mentioned children writing to her, asking things like "Why hasn't Marcus Flint left the school...?". In that case she would reply: "He is so stupid he had to do another year... either that or I made a mistake. But I prefer answer (a)". In the archives (mainly the Yahoo archives) you'll find that several people had previously suggested that Marcus Flint had to retake a year. What Trelawney-like deductive powers they had! It's a pity she went with answer (b) on the wand order thing, eh? Neil From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 29 14:04:56 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:04:56 -0000 Subject: Fred & George In-Reply-To: <92hif9+sfso@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92i5m9+ghbr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8054 Ebony said, on the subject of the Weasley twins: <<>> IMO, the above is evidence that Fred is the more impulsive and George the more cautious of the twins. I think it was also Fred who asked Angelina to the Yule Ball, and perhaps that was another example of his bolder character... I reckon the fact that Fred and George are identical twins will be crucial to a future storyline. It's also true, though, that the twins' closeness serves to exclude Ron and gives him the need for a surrogate brother, which is met in his friendship with Harry Potter. If Ron had had just one brother two years older than him, the two of them might easily have been closer and Ron might not have felt so isolated among the Weasley siblings. Having twin brothers that age meant that he would always be the third party in any relationship with them. For various reasons, none of his other siblings could give him what he wanted: Ginny is a girl, Percy is rather joyless and snooty and Bill and Charlie are much older. It's interesting that Ron is now in a friendship triangle that has the potential to exclude him in much the same way as his relationship with the twins. Perhaps this is another reason he would be over- sensitive about a growing relationship between Hermione and Harry or any imbalance in the component friendships. Neil (as usual, I bet someone else has already said all of this at some point...) From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 29 14:34:33 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:34:33 -0600 Subject: Ebony! Re: Anti-HP Site References: <92hhil+5re1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4CA0F9.477E5B26@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8055 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > While surfing I found a website that eloquently states the > evangelical position against the Harry Potter novels. > > http://www.worthynews.com/harry-potter.html > I've tried 4 different times to access this piece as I'm actually the one responsible for the Religion & HP FAQ. It's crashed my browser each time. I even tried just going to worthynews.com & tracking my way through to the HP piece. No dice -- I got to the site without trouble & to the feature archives without trouble but can't access the HP article without it crashing Netscape. Sinister plot?!! Anyway .... Ebony, could you cut & paste that article into a private email to me (or send it to the list despite the fact that we prefer links rather than cut & pasted articles for copyright reasons). Thanks! > One point the site brings up that I readily agreed with is that the > books are eerily addicting... hmm... maybe it *is* a vast left-wing > conspiracy to force bad things like multiculturalism, globalism, and > relativism upon unsuspecting children and adults! (shaking head) Oh, the horrors! > If you're of another religion, you *can't* appreciate how totally > against HP most evangelical and Pentecostal ministers are. I think that's an interesting observation. I grew up in a conservative city of 100,000 people -- it had no less than 100 *Baptist* churches alone (this figure doesn't of course include the myriad of other evangelical churches of the same basic ilk - Assembly of God, Church of Christ, Pentecostal, etc.). Even the less evangelical denominations couldn't help but be somewhat affected by the views of the monolithic power of the evangelical churches, so I was certainly affected by this climate despite being raised Methodist. Point is: Even though I'm violently opposed to their positions on virtually all issues, I do have a grasp of their basic mindset. My husband and his family, Lutheran for countless generations, have no idea what all the fuss is about. Question: my mother relayed a conversation she had with one of my aunts a few weeks ago. My aunt was telling my mother what she could & couldn't buy for her kids for Christmas (no Pokemon or HP but military "shoot 'em up" software games were okay). Apparently my aunt believes HP is evil and sinful. I find it interesting that she would have this conversation with my mom, who has one daughter completely obsessed with HP (me) and another daughter who reads HP books to her impressionable 3rd graders with nary a qualm. Of further interest is the fact that my aunt had already received my mass-mailing Christmas epistle in which I related that I'd been enchanted by & subsequently obsessed with HP over the year 2000. Should I send my aunt a copy of the "First Things" article that Peg references so often (which I love too btw)? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Dec 29 14:39:54 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 29 Dec 2000 06:39:54 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats Message-ID: <20001229143954.12952.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8056 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 16:01:32 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:01:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8057 >At 02:21 PM 12/28/00 +0000, Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > >*Herbology = Botany/Gardening > >*Care of Magical Creatures = Zoology/Vetinary Science > >*Arithmancy = Arithmetic/Mathematics > >*Potions = Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology > >[etc.]... >> >... a few topics that don't seem to > >be covered much at all: Terrestrial Geography (it's no wonder that > >no one knows where anything is located), Modern Languages, English > >Lit, Art, Music and Sex Education spring to mind. > >A quick OT question: What is Sex Ed. like in the UK? Over here >in the States you need a note from your parents to take it, and at that >they only discuss STD. (The rest they assume you learn for yourself >behind the bike sheds.) Actually, i think it goes by school here in the states. The first high school that i went to only discussed the "scientific" aspect of it where as the other one focuses on the methods of birth control and how to prevent an STD... It was never mentioned once in elementary school, apart from the whole, name that diagram test. >To this I would add: > >-- Magical Maladies and Medicine (Where did Madam Pomfrey learn??) > >-- Magical Music (Maybe Dumbledore is trying to start this one at >Hogwarts.) > >-- Magical Machinery: There's plenty of these in fantasy -- such as > Tik-Tok the clockwork man in the Oz Books and the Sultan's > mechanical flying horse in the movie _The Thief of Bagdad_ -- > so it seems there should be a class. And things like the > Weasley's clock could be covered. > >-- Magical Home Economics: How to get rid of garden gnomes, > make sauce come out of your wand, etc. (Mrs. Weasley could > teach this.) > >-- Fundamental Magical Physics: How Magic works on the most > fundamental level... This would be the Magical equivalent > of Quantum Physics. What about speech and PE... It doesn't seem like flying is all that strenuos... which brings up another point, if Harry is supposed to be flying around on the Quidditch field then how does he get covered with mud? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From morine10 at aol.com Fri Dec 29 16:20:11 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:20:11 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fred or George (was Merchandise for Christmas...) Message-ID: <9e.e15ae68.277e13bb@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8058 aiz24 at hotmail.com writes: > Ellen and others who prefer Fred to George or George to Fred, tell me: > what's the difference between them, as you see it? I can't tell who's > talking half the time, much less notice a difference in their personalities. > I think that JKR started to differentiate the two in GoF a bit. Fred seems to be more the spokesperson on occaision. Which is not to say that George has no input. It just says that Fred has been chosen to be the voice. As the sister of identical twins (younger, girls) I can say that this is (as I have observed from them over the last 20+ years) the case. While they are both of the same opionion, mind, whatever, there is always one that is the voice (or in thier case I like to say mouth). However, every six months or so they tend to switch off on the mouth role. I guess one gets tired and lets the other have a go - who knows. I've asked them but they don't even know that they do it. In a message dated 12/29/00 9:11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, neilward at dircon.co.uk writes: > It's also true, though, that the twins' closeness serves to exclude Ron and > gives him the need for a surrogate brother, which is met in his friendship > with Harry Potter. > Excellent point. I am very close to my sisters. However I could never, ever be as close as the two of them are to one another. They know what each other is thinking and have their own way of communicating that none of the rest of us completely understand. So Ron could never be that close with those two. Hence the importance of Harry. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 29 18:26:21 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:26:21 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 Message-ID: <92il0d+jrfh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8060 Minutes of Hogwarts Faculty Meeting November 15, 1995 In Attendance Headmaster Dumbledore ? Hogwarts' Headmaster ; Prof. Binns - History of Magic; Prof. Flitwick ? Charms; Mr. Hagrid ? Care of Magical Creatures; Prof. McGonagall ? Transfigurations; Prof. Moody ? Dark Arts Defense; Madam Pomfrey ? Nurse; Prof. Sinistra? Astronomy; Prof. Snape ? Potions; Prof. Sprout - Herbology Absent Madam Hooch - Quidditch; Prof. Trelawney ? Divination; Vector - Arithmancy * Headmaster Dumbledore reminded all faculty that Hogwarts will be under heightened scrutiny during the Triwizards Tournament, and staff were reminded to extend the utmost courtesy to our foreign guests, Ministry officials, and members of the press. Prof. Snape and Prof. Moody both made a statement about Headmaster Karkakoff of Durmstrang that they declined to repeat for the record. Prof. Snape inquired as to the status of the investigation of the irregularities surrounding the selection of the Triwazards champions. Headmaster Dumbledore reviewed the security procedures that were implemented during the Champions' selection, and reported that no clues have as yet been unearthed as to how this security was breached. Prof. Moody stated his opinion that the selection of Harry Potter (4th year Gryffindor) indicated that powerful dark forces were afoot, and requested everyone to maintain "constant vigilance." Prof. Snape stated, in his opinion, that Potter and Potter alone was responsible for what he termed "the Goblet of Fire fiasco," and moved (for the 29th time) that Potter be expelled from Hogwarts. Motion was tabled. * Prof. McGonagall asked for the faculty to review proper student disciplinary procedures, running from the least restrictive (losing points, detention) to most restrictive (expulsion). All interventions must be properly documented. Hogwarts was cited and fined two years ago when a previous Dark Arts Defense professor caused the bones in a student's arm to disappear. She reminded staff that transfiguration of students as a consequence for inappropriate behavior is strictly prohibited. Prof. Moody objected, claiming that spending 15 minutes as a rodent would teach a recalcitrant student more than a week of detention. Headmaster Dumbledore suggested that Prof. Moody lobby the appropriate Ministry officials if he wished to advocate for a change in this policy. Until then, only approved disciplinary procedures may be enacted. * Several professors expressed some concern over the placing of two unemployed house-elves on the payroll. There was some worry over the effect on the budget and Hogwarts' reputation. Headmaster Dumbledore reassured staff that the two house-elves in question were fully trustworthy, and would be unlikely to instigate any seditious undertakings. Prof. Snape still expressed concern over the precedent being created, and further noted that Hermione Granger (4th year Gryffindor) was contributing to the elves' unrest by distributing subversive literature on their behalf. He moved (for the 19nd time) that Ms. Granger be expelled. Motion tabled. * Headmaster Dumbledore expressed concern over budgetary overruns in the following departments: Care of Magical Creatures, DADA, and Potions. Mr. Hagrid attributed his Department's budget overrun to an unexpectedly high death rate among the Blast-Ended Skrewts, but assured the faculty that the population has now stabilized. It was noted that Prof. Moody ordered an unusually large supply of Polyjuice Potion, which he insisted was essential for the curriculum he is currently utilizing. Prof. Snape attributed the greater part of his department's budget expenses to replacing cauldrons and other materials ruined by Neville Longbottom (4th-year Gryffindor). He moved (for the 11th time) that Longbottom be expelled. Motion tabled. * Madam Pomfrey stated that the Blast-Ended Skrewts, currently being raised in Care of Magical Creatures, have resulted in a 263% increase in visits to the infirmary for lacerations, bruises, and first and second-degree burns. Mr. Hagrid pointed out that there were no incidents of third-degree burns, and that many students found the creatures "cute." Several professors asked what they were being raised for, and Mr. Hagrid replied that the Skrewts have several important uses. He was still researching their most important use. Staff narrowly voted to allow Mr. Hagrid to continue raising the Skrewts until the end of the current school year. At that time, their status will be re-evalauted. * Prof. Binns stated that he is still having 4.7 Galleons deducted each pay period for health insurance, despite the fact that as a ghost, he is no longer is at risk for illness or disability. Madam Pomfrey confirmed that Prof. Binns has not been seen in her infirmary since his acquisition of post-biological status. Headmaster Dumbledore promised to bring the matter to the attention of Payroll. * Prof. Flitwick and Prof. McGonagall stated that the Yule Ball Committee will hold its first meeting a week from Wednesday. All volunteers are appreciated! * Several professors expressed concern over Prof. Trelawney's continued absence at these faculty meetings. Headmaster Dumbledore acknowledged these concerns, and reminded faculty that he has spoken to her about her non-attendance on several occasions. She claims that wishes to attend, but certain unfortunate planetary alliances forbid it. Headmaster Dumbledore begged for the faculty's continued indulgence of Trelawney's eccentricities, and reminded everyone that her record of two accurate predictions has made her Hogwarts' most successful Divination Professor in over three centuries. * Headmaster Dumbledore reminded staff that Hogwarts' owls are to be used for official purposes only. Staff were reminded to use their own owls for all personal correspondence. * The first-floor girls' restroom on Gryffindor continues to be in disuse. Headmaster Dumbledore stated that its repair is not in the budget this year. * Prof. Snape moved (for the 15th time) that Ron Weasley (4th year Gryffindor) be expelled. He refused to cite a specific reason. Motion tabled. * Next meeting is scheduled for 11/29/95 From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Dec 29 18:29:55 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:29:55 -0000 Subject: Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele In-Reply-To: <000701c07151$6d004dc0$9ec54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <92il73+33pd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8061 In response to my original statement (below) that Dumbledore seems like a 1-dimensional character in certain respects, Caius Marcius (CMC) makes the point that Dumbledore has some very interesting dimensions, such as his odd sense of humor, and the fact that he has manipulated Harry and placed him (and his friends) into some very dangerous situations. On the latter point, Caius Marcus gives examples (below) of D's apparent willingness to put Harry's life in danger in order to defeat Evil. There is an interesting elaboration of this point that I'd like to suggest: Let's assume that both Dumbledore and Fudge are privy to Trelawny's First Prediction, which (I assume) is that Harry will be the downfall of Lord V. Fudge thinks it very important to safeguard Harry so that he can carry out his preordained mission, and repeatedly displays great concern for Harry's personal safety. However, Dumbledore puts a different spin on the prediction than Fudge does, and comes to the conclusion that *Harry is invulnerable* until he accomplishes this ultimate mission. At worst, Harry's death will somehow bring about the fall of Voldemort; however, Harry *cannot* die on a "mission" (e.g., closing the Chamber of Secrets, freeing Sirius, or participating in the TriWizard tourney) unless it *also* brings about V's downfall. Dumbledore thus feels free to put Harry's life at risk with impunity. The fact that others might be hurt or killed in the process is probably of secondary importance to him. This is War, after all. Coming back to the question of Dumbledore's character, I think this new interpretation gives me a much better appreciation for what *might* be going on underneath the hood. He must have more in common with a samurai warrior than a schoolmaster. A fitting role for Richard Harris. -JF ********************************************************************** ***** JF: Dumbledore, for me, remains one-dimensional in his role of providing the polar "good" in the story, just as Voldemort provides the polar "evil." Dumbledore is quirky and he makes mistakes, but he has *no* vices.... CMC: I think you fail to do Dumbledore justice... CMC: ...There is a certain feeling I get that he is manipulating Harry like a chess-piece in his renewed campaign against Voldemort - that he is using Harry in a just cause, a cause that Harry willingly aligns himself with, makes it no less manipulative... CMC: Note how Dumbledore uses Harry to get back the Philosopher's Stone - or how the Invisibility Cloak just "happens" to fall into Harry's hands - or how he all but forces Hermione to reveal her secret time- turner to Ron and Harry, and then send them out with it on an extraordinarily dangerous mission... CMC: ...The marvelously subversive passage in GoF Chap. 36, in which Harry notes the gleam of triumph in Dumbledore's eyes surely does not mean that Dumbledore is a hidden ally of Evil - but, just as disturbingly, it may mean that as an agent of Good, he must be willing to sacrifice others he truly cares about in order to achieve Evil's defeat... From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Dec 29 18:59:19 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 29 Dec 2000 18:59:19 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <978116359.29225@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8062 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Ford Anglia.gif Uploaded by : dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Description : A picture of a 1966 Ford Anglia 105E I came across in a classic car ad. For those interested. You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Ford+Anglia%2Egif To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, dwe199 at soton.ac.uk From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Dec 29 19:00:26 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:00:26 -0600 Subject: In need of a Brit phrase (OT mostly) Message-ID: <3A4CDF4A.C6AC3D34@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8063 Hi -- Carole & I are in need of a good turn of phrase to come out of a Brit's mouth & are at ...erm ... a loss for words. "The Ministry would be on me faster than _______________" (says Sirius Black) Can any of the Brits help us fill in this blank? Thanks ever so -- Penny From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Dec 29 19:08:17 2000 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:08:17 -0000 Subject: In need of a Brit phrase (OT mostly) In-Reply-To: <3A4CDF4A.C6AC3D34@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92inf1+blbb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8064 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Carole & I are in need of a good turn of phrase to come out of a Brit's > mouth & are at ...erm ... a loss for words. > > "The Ministry would be on me faster than _______________" (says Sirius > Black) > > Can any of the Brits help us fill in this blank? > > Thanks ever so -- > > Penny A common term for speed is "Shit off a shovel" I dunno if it's appropriate for this situation though as I've only heard it used to describe speed of an object (like the rapidness of Pete Postlethwaites heartbeat in Brassed Off) rather than someones reactions. You could try one of Cassie's techniques of using lines from Red Dwarf, there's one where Kryten, as a sheriff in the old west is described as being "faster than a toilet stop in rattle snake country" on drawing his gun. Although that's not exactly stereo typically british. Dai From Yaz at good.co.uk Fri Dec 29 19:14:50 2000 From: Yaz at good.co.uk (Yaz) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:14:50 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: In need of a Brit phrase (OT mostly) References: <92inf1+blbb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <0e0001c071cb$9e821980$bd3a073e@merchantbtinternet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8065 > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > Hi -- > > > > Carole & I are in need of a good turn of phrase to come out of a > Brit's > > mouth & are at ...erm ... a loss for words. > > > > "The Ministry would be on me faster than _______________" (says > Sirius > > Black) > > > > Can any of the Brits help us fill in this blank? > > > > Thanks ever so -- > > > > Penny > A common term for speed is "Shit off a shovel" Yep, "shit off a shovel" is the one that immediately sprung to mind for me too, if that's any help... Cheers Yaz ;-) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Dec 29 19:17:29 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:17:29 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] In need of a Brit phrase (OT mostly) References: <3A4CDF4A.C6AC3D34@swbell.net> Message-ID: <001c01c071cb$fdb57000$c83470c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8066 Penny said: <<>> You two at a loss for words? This is sirius... If it were me speaking I'd probably say something like "faster than you can say Jack Robinson," but you could put a lot of things in that gap without sounding un-British. How about going for a magical reference instead, such as "faster than Mrs Norris on roller skates"? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Fri Dec 29 19:26:29 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:26:29 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: In need of a Brit phrase (OT mostly) References: <92inf1+blbb@eGroups.com> <0e0001c071cb$9e821980$bd3a073e@merchantbtinternet.com> Message-ID: <001a01c071cd$3f3bec60$ad0d073e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8067 > > > "The Ministry would be on me faster than _______________" (says > > Sirius > > > Black) > > > > > > Can any of the Brits help us fill in this blank? > > > > > > Thanks ever so -- > > > > > > Penny > > > > A common term for speed is "Shit off a shovel" > > Yep, "shit off a shovel" is the one that immediately sprung to mind for me > too, if that's any help... Yup, that's exactly what came into my mind when I read this - also, I could definitely see Sirius saying it. Alix From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 19:37:37 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:37:37 -0000 Subject: Good MWPP fanfic In-Reply-To: <3A4C104B.BF0FD3F8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92ip61+gd1h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8068 Penny said I'd be the person to recommend good MWPP fanfic, so I'll put on my critic's hat and do just that, for Jim and anyone else who's interested. Apologies to those people who've seen me trot out the same list time after time - I haven't been reading enough fanfic lately to be able to expand it, so there are only authors I'm very familiar with here. Anyway, here's the list. WolfieTwins with 'Call of the Wild,' a story explaining what Remus Lupin did during the twelve years between the Potters' death and his job at Hogwarts. Their 'Best of All Possible Worlds' makes for hilarious reading once you've finished 'Call of the Wild.' morrigan with 'The Other Side' and many other pieces, all worth reading. Moon with 'Cub Scout' about MWPP at Hogwarts. Moon has also written two spoofs on the Mary Sue Syndrome: 'The Fic That Must Not Be Named' and 'Remus In Furs.' Both are hilarious. Hyphen with 'The Speculum Curse' and all her other work, almost all or which is hilarious. Read 'A Marriage of True Minds?' for an antidote to all the Lily/James soppiness. CLS with 'Black Shadow' about Sirius and his motorcycle, 'The Wolf in the Cage' about Remus after resigning from Hogwarts and various other fics. Superb writing. rave with 'Bryter Layter' about MWPP at school. GrimSlasher with two Remus/Sirius stories - not for people who don't agree with slash or are liable to be jealous ;-), but well written nonetheless. Katie Bell with tons of stories. 'I Am Sirius Black' and 'Love Is' are my favourites; the latter is a Snapefic. Earthwalk and Firecross have both written Snapefics which have been highly recommended, but I have not read the entirety of both yet and so cannot pass judgment. There are bound to be more, but that should keep you busy for a while. -Blaise, returning to Lurkage. From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Dec 29 19:53:17 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:53:17 -0000 Subject: Number of Students Message-ID: <92iq3d+na9c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8069 Hmmm... If there are 1000 students, as Rowling said in an interview a couple of months ago, then how long would the tables in the Great Hall have to be? 1000 students / 4 houses = 250 students per house 250 students / 2 sides of the table = 125 students per side assume 30 inches of space per student, then 125 students x 30 inches/student = 3750 inches = 312.5 feet (95m) Thus, each of the four tables has to be slightly longer than an American football field. Seems inconvenient, and there has been no mention of multiple tables for each house or the use of sound amplification to reach those at the far end of the hall. Maybe they use a trick similar to the Secret Keeper or confundus charm to make 3/4 of the students "invisible." -JF From particle at urbanet.ch Fri Dec 29 20:02:18 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:02:18 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Good MWPP fanfic References: <92ip61+gd1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4CEDC8.B9296354@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8070 Ohyes, and a very...interesting filk called 'The Bite Before Christmas', narrated from a sixth-year Lily Evans' PoV ^_^. A little bit gory, but hysterically funny. Also the Magical Mystica Tour for those in need of another Mary Sue spoof. Blaise has already mentioned Earthwalk's 'I Was Right', and I second that recommendation. It's well written, manages to make Snape sympathetic without glossing over his less desirable characteristics, and overall manages quite a different twist on things. ~Firebolt PS Would anyone like me to scan in PS in Slovak and add it to the covers section on the graphics ML? I know we already have it in Czech, but Slovak's a different language and a different cover (Mary Grand Pre again, unfortunately - not that I hate her drawings but we already have the American books...). PPS This is in all probability my last post for a week, as tomorrow morning I'm going on a week-long trip to Spain. Happy New Year, everyone! I almost wrote Harry New Year ^_^. Blaise wrote: > Penny said I'd be the person to recommend good MWPP fanfic, so I'll > put on my critic's hat and do just that, for Jim and anyone else > who's interested. Apologies to those people who've seen me trot out > the same list time after time - I haven't been reading enough fanfic > lately to be able to expand it, so there are only authors I'm very > familiar with here. Anyway, here's the list. From lizabee_uk at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 20:20:03 2000 From: lizabee_uk at hotmail.com (Lizabee ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:20:03 -0000 Subject: Feb intro 4 Hagrid & Ch31 Message-ID: <92irlj+bvmd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8071 I voentered to intro these descusion when i was an active member back in the summer, but unfortunatly Due to an overwellming work load & poor health I wont be able to mannage it. Sorry guys I hope you all understand & are able to find somone able to do this love Lizabee. P.S. I would just like to say, Robbie Coltrain Is all WRONG for Hagrid! From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Dec 29 20:28:23 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:28:23 -0000 Subject: Number of Students In-Reply-To: <92iq3d+na9c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92is57+8jc2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8072 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Hmmm... If there are 1000 students, as Rowling said in an interview a > couple of months ago, then how long would the tables in the Great > Hall have to be? > > 1000 students / 4 houses = 250 students per house > > 250 students / 2 sides of the table = 125 students per side > > assume 30 inches of space per student, then > > 125 students x 30 inches/student = 3750 inches = 312.5 feet (95m) > > Thus, each of the four tables has to be slightly longer than an > American football field. Seems inconvenient, and there has been no > mention of multiple tables for each house or the use of sound > amplification to reach those at the far end of the hall. Maybe they > use a trick similar to the Secret Keeper or confundus charm to make > 3/4 of the students "invisible." > > -JF 30 inches of space per student!!!! That's a lot of room! I've been at fancy to-do's where the formal place setting was confined to a very cramped 16 inches! Maybe there are speakers built into the walls? :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Dec 29 20:32:07 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:32:07 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 In-Reply-To: <92il0d+jrfh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92isc7+ejpr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8073 LMAO!!! :-)Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Minutes of Hogwarts Faculty Meeting > > November 15, 1995 > > In Attendance > > Headmaster Dumbledore ? Hogwarts' Headmaster ; Prof. Binns - > History of Magic; Prof. Flitwick ? Charms; Mr. Hagrid ? Care > of Magical Creatures; Prof. McGonagall ? Transfigurations; Prof. > Moody ? Dark Arts Defense; Madam Pomfrey ? Nurse; Prof. > Sinistra? Astronomy; Prof. Snape ? Potions; Prof. Sprout - > Herbology > > Absent > > Madam Hooch - Quidditch; Prof. Trelawney ? Divination; Vector - > Arithmancy > > > * Headmaster Dumbledore reminded all faculty that Hogwarts will be > under heightened scrutiny during the Triwizards Tournament, and staff > were reminded to extend the utmost courtesy to our foreign guests, > Ministry officials, and members of the press. Prof. Snape and Prof. > Moody both made a statement about Headmaster Karkakoff of Durmstrang > that they declined to repeat for the record. Prof. Snape inquired as > to the status of the investigation of the irregularities surrounding > the selection of the Triwazards champions. Headmaster Dumbledore > reviewed the security procedures that were implemented during the > Champions' selection, and reported that no clues have as yet been > unearthed as to how this security was breached. Prof. Moody stated > his opinion that the selection of Harry Potter (4th year Gryffindor) > indicated that powerful dark forces were afoot, and requested > everyone to maintain "constant vigilance." Prof. Snape > stated, in his opinion, that Potter and Potter alone was responsible > for what he termed "the Goblet of Fire fiasco," and moved > (for the > 29th time) that Potter be expelled from Hogwarts. Motion was tabled. > > * Prof. McGonagall asked for the faculty to review proper student > disciplinary procedures, running from the least restrictive (losing > points, detention) to most restrictive (expulsion). All > interventions must be properly documented. Hogwarts was cited and > fined two years ago when a previous Dark Arts Defense professor > caused the bones in a student's arm to disappear. She reminded > staff that transfiguration of students as a consequence for > inappropriate behavior is strictly prohibited. Prof. Moody objected, > claiming that spending 15 minutes as a rodent would teach a > recalcitrant student more than a week of detention. Headmaster > Dumbledore suggested that Prof. Moody lobby the appropriate Ministry > officials if he wished to advocate for a change in this policy. > Until then, only approved disciplinary procedures may be enacted. > > * Several professors expressed some concern over the placing of two > unemployed house-elves on the payroll. There was some worry over the > effect on the budget and Hogwarts' reputation. Headmaster > Dumbledore reassured staff that the two house-elves in question were > fully trustworthy, and would be unlikely to instigate any seditious > undertakings. Prof. Snape still expressed concern over the precedent > being created, and further noted that Hermione Granger (4th year > Gryffindor) was contributing to the elves' unrest by distributing > subversive literature on their behalf. He moved (for the 19nd time) > that Ms. Granger be expelled. Motion tabled. > > * Headmaster Dumbledore expressed concern over budgetary overruns in > the following departments: Care of Magical Creatures, DADA, and > Potions. Mr. Hagrid attributed his Department's budget overrun to > an unexpectedly high death rate among the Blast-Ended Skrewts, but > assured the faculty that the population has now stabilized. It was > noted that Prof. Moody ordered an unusually large supply of Polyjuice > Potion, which he insisted was essential for the curriculum he is > currently utilizing. Prof. Snape attributed the greater part of his > department's budget expenses to replacing cauldrons and other > materials ruined by Neville Longbottom (4th-year Gryffindor). He > moved (for the 11th time) that Longbottom be expelled. Motion tabled. > > * Madam Pomfrey stated that the Blast-Ended Skrewts, currently being > raised in Care of Magical Creatures, have resulted in a 263% increase > in visits to the infirmary for lacerations, bruises, and first and > second-degree burns. Mr. Hagrid pointed out that there were no > incidents of third-degree burns, and that many students found the > creatures "cute." Several professors asked what they were > being raised for, and Mr. Hagrid replied that the Skrewts have > several important uses. He was still researching their most > important use. Staff narrowly voted to allow Mr. Hagrid to continue > raising the Skrewts until the end of the current school year. At that > time, their status will be re-evalauted. > > * Prof. Binns stated that he is still having 4.7 Galleons deducted > each pay period for health insurance, despite the fact that as a > ghost, he is no longer is at risk for illness or disability. Madam > Pomfrey confirmed that Prof. Binns has not been seen in her infirmary > since his acquisition of post-biological status. Headmaster > Dumbledore promised to bring the matter to the attention of Payroll. > > * Prof. Flitwick and Prof. McGonagall stated that the Yule Ball > Committee will hold its first meeting a week from Wednesday. All > volunteers are appreciated! > > * Several professors expressed concern over Prof. Trelawney's > continued absence at these faculty meetings. Headmaster Dumbledore > acknowledged these concerns, and reminded faculty that he has spoken > to her about her non-attendance on several occasions. She claims > that wishes to attend, but certain unfortunate planetary alliances > forbid it. Headmaster Dumbledore begged for the faculty's > continued indulgence of Trelawney's eccentricities, and reminded > everyone that her record of two accurate predictions has made her > Hogwarts' most successful Divination Professor in over three > centuries. > > * Headmaster Dumbledore reminded staff that Hogwarts' owls are > to be used for official purposes only. Staff were reminded to use > their own owls for all personal correspondence. > > * The first-floor girls' restroom on Gryffindor continues to be > in disuse. Headmaster Dumbledore stated that its repair is not in the > budget this year. > > * Prof. Snape moved (for the 15th time) that Ron Weasley (4th year > Gryffindor) be expelled. He refused to cite a specific reason. > Motion tabled. > > * Next meeting is scheduled for 11/29/95 From lj2d30 at gateway.net Fri Dec 29 20:41:25 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:41:25 -0000 Subject: Ron's character development In-Reply-To: <20001219175725.C20563@ludism.org> Message-ID: <92istl+o6ev@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8074 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, marty at m... wrote: . > > I agree that Ron could use some development, and I would like to know more about him. On the other hand, that's one of his salient character features -- he's struggling to define himself. Psychologically, I like the idea that Ron feels comfortable in Harry's shadow because he's grown up in the shadow of his brothers, yet simultaneously feels the need to act out his conflict about that with Harry, too. I've always thought that Ron could feel vastly superior to Harry given his upbringing in the wizarding world, whereas Harry has only known of it for 4 years. Harry needs Ron. Ron is a veritable font of trivia/knowledge of the wizarding world for Harry. Yes, Harry's knowledge of it has grown exponentially, but he still relies on Ron for little comments and general information. I think it is a mark of Ron's character that he doesn't lord it over the "famous Harry Potter" that he knows more about the world into which they were both born. Perhaps it is because he is the youngest son in his family and has issues of "living up to" his older brothers that he doesn't take an air of superiority. I hope this makes sense. I'm recovering from a week of feasting and a four hour drive along curvy mountain roads with two cats in the backseat. Hope everyone had a great holiday! Trina From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Dec 29 20:23:26 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:23:26 -0000 Subject: Newbie References: <92gc80+hgrb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002101c071d9$b46a9660$ee9a7ed4@s8u7u5> No: HPFGUIDX 8075 Hi Kazz > Just joined Egroups to join HPforGrownups! Welcome to the group... glad to have new members, especially ones from the UK (the American's out-number us, as is typical of any internet based chat group). > Well, to introduce myself I'm 23 now .. too bad you caught me in > December lol. I'm 25 (lucky it's December, 26 in 8 days time!) >I'm a uni/college student in London. I remember those days... pity I have to work now :-( I'm down the road from you... on the Surrey / Berkshire border. Must meet sometime - maybe all us London (or close to London) members should have a 'physical' get together every now and then... you up for that Neil, Simon etc? Welcome aboard the HPforGrownUps Express... Nick. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 29 20:59:48 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:59:48 -0000 Subject: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) In-Reply-To: <012701c0718f$01c31cc0$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <92iu04+hj1r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8076 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > > Of course, no mention is made of any other children's fantasy novel > > that contains many of the same elements (if not more) of the Harry > > Potter books. No mention is made of fairy tales, of folklore, of > > even certain passages of the Bible that you don't read to your > > children. > > Some christian society (I've forgotten the name of this one) said that > Philip Pullman's books are even more bunrworthy than the HP books. That was > a sentence that frightened, because if you get to *burning books* you're > already quite far down the fashist lane. > I think sometimes there's a tendency on this group to over-caricature evangelicals. Do they pose a genuine threat to HP or are they merely rogue boggarts that transform themselves ? with our full cooperation ? into our most horrifying nightmare? Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK evangelicals have not succeeded in a number of decades in "banning" or "burning" any book in this country ? i.e., they have not caused any volume to become widely unavailable to the public at large. At worst, they have had books removed from school libraries or stopped books from being taught in class, and/or tried to discourage people from reading them. This seems to be the thrust of the anti-HP site that Ebony referenced for us. We may not agree with this, but that is a vastly different thing than censorship (e.g., making a work difficult or impossible to access, and making the possession of it a crime ? as in the Soviet Union, when Solzhenitsyn was only available through "samizdat", and you could do hard time if a copy were found in your possession). We may also disagree with their rationale for opposing HP, but certainly there are a number of groups across the political spectrum who have attempted (with varying degrees of success) the very same thing with literary works which they dislike (just think of Huckleberry Finn). Now, it may be argued that evangelicals would institute such Draco- nain restrictions if only they had the power. Perhaps. But they don't and in my measured judgment they never will. America is too fragmented (or "diverse," if you like a nicer word). Cromwell is not coming back, and Cotton Mather reigns no more. Evangelicals sense this too, and one should note the strong element of powerlessness and despair that emanates from their writings on cultural affairs. And why not? You would have a much easier time getting The Chamber of Secrets taught in a public school these days than you would the Book of Genesis or the Gospel of Matthew ? despite the obvious fact that large chunks of Western cultural and political history (not to mention Lloyd Webber musicals) are rendered incomprehensible to anyone ignorant of these writings. And "belief" has nothing to do with it? even the militant atheist Nietzsche declared that "Compared to the Bible, everything else is merely literature." - CMC From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 21:34:30 2000 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:34:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students(tables) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8077 Or maybe guys....it's just magic....... ;) If Mr. Weasley can make a ford anglica hold his whole family, imagine what dumbledore could do with some plain old tables ;) Stephanie >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > Hmmm... If there are 1000 students, as Rowling said in an interview >a > > couple of months ago, then how long would the tables in the Great > > Hall have to be? > > > > 1000 students / 4 houses = 250 students per house > > > > 250 students / 2 sides of the table = 125 students per side > > > > assume 30 inches of space per student, then > > > > 125 students x 30 inches/student = 3750 inches = 312.5 feet (95m) > > > > Thus, each of the four tables has to be slightly longer than an > > American football field. Seems inconvenient, and there has been no > > mention of multiple tables for each house or the use of sound > > amplification to reach those at the far end of the hall. Maybe >they > > use a trick similar to the Secret Keeper or confundus charm to make > > 3/4 of the students "invisible." > > > > -JF > >30 inches of space per student!!!! That's a lot of room! I've been at >fancy to-do's where the formal place setting was confined to a very >cramped 16 inches! > >Maybe there are speakers built into the walls? > >:-) Milz > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 21:37:03 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 16:37:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8078 > >30 inches of space per student!!!! That's a lot of room! I've been at >fancy to-do's where the formal place setting was confined to a very >cramped 16 inches! > >Maybe there are speakers built into the walls? > >:-) Milz > Let's not forget about the "magic factor". If they can expand small amounts of space to accomadate large objects, then they can obviously do that to the Great Hall tables.... Okay, assuming that there are 250 students per house table, if we give them each 20 inches of space, after all some of them are smaller then us, that gives us tables of approx. 208 ft. or about 70 yds. I think that there have to be either more than one table per House, the Houses are oviously not divided equally, and Harry only talks to people he knows... One another note...When they all crammed into the small car that had been magically expanded, what did the muggles see? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Fri Dec 29 21:40:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:40:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Misspellings References: <000001c0718a$d713d2c0$24ad003e@default> Message-ID: <3A4D04D7.15DD95B5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8079 Maya Crabtree wrote: > >Someone wrote: > >"Maybe I'm being naive, but let's not forget that she writed for > >children, > > ah!!! I can't believe myself. WRITED? WRITED? WROTE. Where's my English > pride??? ;-) Must be all the late night e-mailing...:-) Maya, I wouldn't worry until you send stuff with your own name misspelled. I don't think I've done it on this list yet, but I've had stuff go out signed "Amanad," "Adnama," and a few other fun ones. --Amanda From john at walton.to Fri Dec 29 23:55:14 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:55:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) In-Reply-To: <92iu04+hj1r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8080 Caius Marcius said: "large chunks of Western cultural and political history (not to mention Lloyd Webber musicals) are rendered incomprehensible to anyone ignorant of [The Bible]" ::funny look:: And this is supposed to be a BAD thing? --John ========================================= John Walton? john at walton.to Campaign Spending: $2 billion Having your little brother fix the polls for you: Priceless ========================================= From john at walton.to Sat Dec 30 00:02:19 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:02:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: In need of a Brit phrase (OT mostly) In-Reply-To: <001a01c071cd$3f3bec60$ad0d073e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8081 Alix Petty said: >>>> "The Ministry would be on me faster than _______________" (says >>> Sirius >>>> Black) >>>> >>>> Can any of the Brits help us fill in this blank? >>>> >>>> Thanks ever so -- >>>> >>>> Penny >> >> >>> A common term for speed is "Shit off a shovel" >> >> Yep, "shit off a shovel" is the one that immediately sprung to mind for me >> too, if that's any help... > > Yup, that's exactly what came into my mind when I read this - also, I could > definitely see Sirius saying it. > > Alix Of course, if you don't like the "shit off a shovel" one, Neil's suggestion of "faster than you can say X", with X being something to do with the Ministry. Alternatively, "Faster than Percy Weasley heading for a Prefect's Meeting" could work... Neil said (groan!): > You two at a loss for words? This is sirius... Ooh...that was baaad. That was very bad. Something tells me you've been watching a pantomime recently. (Oh, no it doesn't!) --John ========================================= John Walton? john at walton.to Campaign Spending: $2 billion Having your little brother fix the election for you: Priceless ========================================= From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 00:20:29 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 00:20:29 -0000 Subject: Splitting Hairs In-Reply-To: <92gk0d+tstj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92j9od+h8sl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8082 Kimberly:"My pet 'I wonder' for the moment is - what was Dumbledore's role in Flamel's alchemy research? According to my admittedly muggle calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 when he was born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life expectancies are even longer than I thought) that he must already have been tippling a certain elixer. So what would there be left for Dumbledore to do?" Perhaps Dumbledore was his protoge, his research assistant. K:"And if he really thinks that unlimited money and eternal life are the things that are worst for us, then why was he interested in the stone and alchemy in general to begin with?" Perhaps Dumbledore had his skills before he had his wisdom (nothing unusual there), or perhaps his intellectual curiosity drove him on. If he was Flamel's apprentice, he would have worked on those things Flamel set him to. Many scientists and their graduates have become close. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > > I agree completely. Her characters are outstanding and her themes > are > > wonderfully sophisticated and subtle. We fans only split hairs like > > this about stuff we *like*. These stories are good enough that we > > seek every possible morsel and then work it to death. We all really > > like this world, and we don't want to leave it. Most of us would > give > > an arm to visit Hogsmeade and Hogwarts for just one day. > > > > I might even forget to count heads while I was there. > > You're right - the stories are wonderful, and I'd be tempted to submit > to some sort of minor amputation if there was a promise of a trip to > Harry's world as a result. And there are tons of details I do wonder > about when I'm daydreaming the possibilities. My pet 'I wonder' for > the moment is - what was Dumbledore's role in Flamel's alchemy > research? According to my admittedly muggle calculations, if > Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 when he was > born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life expectancies are > even longer than I thought) that he must already have been tippling a > certain elixer. So what would there be left for Dumbledore to do? > And if he really thinks that unlimited money and eternal life are the > things that are worst for us, then why was he interested in the stone > and alchemy in general to begin with? That's my favorite current > puzzle. Probably this was already discussed long before I came around > - if so, I'd love some direction on the matter - anybody got a link > for me? > > Pondering, > kimberly From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 00:25:09 2000 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Karen ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 00:25:09 -0000 Subject: Newbie In-Reply-To: <002101c071d9$b46a9660$ee9a7ed4@s8u7u5> Message-ID: <92ja15+bd10@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8083 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Hi Kazz > > Welcome to the group... glad to have new members, especially ones > from the UK (the American's out-number us, as is typical of any > internet based chat group). > > I'm 25 (lucky it's December, 26 in 8 days time!) > > I remember those days... pity I have to work now :-( > I'm down the road from you... on the Surrey / Berkshire border. > Must meet sometime - maybe all us London (or close to London) > members should have a 'physical' get together every now and then... > you up for that Neil, Simon etc? > > Welcome aboard the HPforGrownUps Express... > > Nick. hiya Nick! At last we meet .. sort of. I didn't have a clue who this person was trying to add me to their pager LOL. Thanks for the welcome mate, glad to see other brits out there too. Specially since Potter hails from England! Great idea about the physcial f2f thing. Although, you'll have to introduce me to Neil, Simon etc! lol Catch me on the pager or my yahoo Friends club. More brits than other non-brits hehehe if you fancy a taste of home =) I think we have a few members that actually ARE down your road too! LOL The club URL is on my profile, under Friends Trivia. Come and check it out. The next quiz is on Sunday if Mark gets his finger out lol, or just catch mine on Mondays. Well, just past midnight so "tatty bye" =) From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 00:42:28 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 00:42:28 -0000 Subject: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) In-Reply-To: <92hhil+5re1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92jb1k+987b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8084 Ebony:"I am more than a little concerned with a growing trend in modern conservative Christianity that the anti-Harry Potter sentiment is a symptom of: isolationism." It seems that those conservative Christians are afraid their faith is fragile; there is a definite anti-intellectual streak that reminds me far too much of the Cultural Revolution. They, like Mao or Bill Gates, want no competition and no questions. Harry Potter books are about good and evil with no question where the author stands; loyalty, bravery, love of your friends, becoming truly mature, being different. The magic is secondary. That seems heretical, but I believe it. E:"I'm a committed Christian who happens to love Harry Potter. Some may think that's a paradox. I don't." Harry Potter doesn't conflict with Christian principles in any way, whatever the conservative wing may say. They don't own Christianity. From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 00:43:32 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:43:32 -0600 Subject: MORE about HP gifts... References: <002901c07051$4884d2a0$59ac003e@default> Message-ID: <3A4D2FB4.532F651C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8085 Hi -- Maya Crabtree wrote: > >My sister & I played the Quidditch game twice yesterday > > I wonder if you could describe it. (I mean, further than what you already > wrote. ) in general ... I wonder how it's done. It's a bit complicated but I'll try. It's a board where you set up 3 plastic hoop-like things at each end of the field. Each player (2 players) or team has 7 player pieces -- 2 beaters, 3 chasers, 1 keeper & 1 seeker. The keeper can only move amongst certain spaces around his goal posts. Very boring. There are 100 small tokens that get spread out, one in each green space on the "field." There are quite a few green spaces left though, once you've placed the tokens face down randomly. They are tiny little pieces & it's hard to avoid seeing the reverse side while you're putting them down or while you're moving players around. The board is *too* small!! Are you listening Hedwig who works for Warner Bros? There is one golden snitch token; numerous "Hogwarts" tokens that have no effect on play (get removed from the Board as they are turned over); several "quaffle" tokens (if a chaser lands on one, they get a quaffle shot; if another player lands on one, he just leaves it there & you try to get a chaser toward it pronto); several "speed" tokens which allow you to roll both dice on the next turn; several penalty tokens which remove a player from the game for 1 round of play; several "slow potion" tokens which require a player to sit out that turn but resume play on the next round -- I think that's it on the tokens. The first 2 times that a "1" is rolled, the player rolling the "1" gets control of a bludger. If you land on or over an opponent's player, you remove that player from the game for 2 full rounds. If one of your opponent's beaters lands in a space next to your bludger, he takes control of the bludger. We found that you typically lost control of both bludgers before actually getting to move them to try & knock out a player. If a chaser gets a quaffle token, he gets a shot at the goal not being guarded by the opponent's keeper -- very tricky to use the launcher. We didn't score many quaffle goals. If you score a quaffle goal, you get to try & shoot again on the next turn in lieu of moving that chaser. If the seeker turns over the snitch token, game is over (150 points to that team). If another player turns it over, it just stays up & you try to race your seekers to get it. There are more rules & such but that's the basic gist of it. MORE MERCHANDISE -- I got like 4 pewter Dumbledore ornaments & several duplicate bookmarks, so I took all of it to Hallmark yesterday to exchange for .. I knew not what. Turns out -- I'm *so* excited, I was able to get the glass, handpainted Hermione ornament to go with my handpainted Harry ornament for all of $.63 after the exchanged items weighed in. Yay! Hurrah! They are hanging sweetly next to one another on my tree at this moment. Must decide if I want the Ron one as an investment or if he'd only get in the way of my H/H ornaments. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 00:45:26 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:45:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? References: Message-ID: <3A4D3026.88BD0FE3@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8086 Hi -- Stephanie Becvar wrote: > My assumptions on this were from Book 3, when they talked about Not > having won the Quidditch Cup in 8 years, since Charlie was > captain...That would make Charlie about 21-22 at the time of that book > bc i am assuming that they were talking the last time they won was his > 7th year... But, by my math (admittedly never my strong suit), 8 years after his 7th year would make Charlie roughly 24-25 yrs old (assuming he was 17/18 during his 7th year). So, that makes him 25/26 in GoF -- which is how I've always thought of him. I figure Bill is 1 yr older too -- making him the 26/27 in GoF that I mentioned earlier. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 00:49:57 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:49:57 -0600 Subject: Stationary Set References: <92emre+ndmv@eGroups.com> <020201c070bd$a07313c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <006c01c070be$6ee56b40$202907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A4D3135.D00FA461@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8087 Hi -- Dinah wrote: > Can anyone tell me what is in the Harry Potter Stationery Kit ? I > could get my hands on that one, but I don't really know what it is... I didn't ask for it but got it anyway for Xmas. The back of the box recites: 8 pages of stationary, 10 envelopes, sticker sheet, rubber stamp, pocket photo album & address book. It's okay. I probably wouldn't have bought it myself but it was a gift. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 00:56:37 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:56:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ages? References: <92fsnb+eum3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4D32C5.7D9ECED4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8088 Hi -- milz wrote: > Also it's very possible to have all-star players and have a losing > team Quidditch, like baseball and football (both kinds), > is a TEAM sport. The overall performance of the TEAM depends on the > performance of ALL the members. So, it's quite conceivable that > Charlie was a superstar on an good team that won "seven years" ago, > but was a superstar on an average team that failed to win thereafter. I agree with this in theory, except that Charlie played as Seeker. I think the situation where one team wins the game, even though the other team's seeker caught the snitch, would be an anomaly (the World Cup being won by Ireland despite the snitch being caught by the Bulgarian seeker seems to be an oddity to the wizarding world). It wouldn't be so common that an average team with a superstar seeker would lose season after season I wouldn't think. And, how do you get to be regarded as a superstar seeker if you never catch the snitch? And, if you *do* catch the snitch, 9 times out of 10, your team wins the game, right? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 01:07:37 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:07:37 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Newbie References: <92ja15+bd10@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002a01c071fc$e6cf0c80$563770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8089 Nick said (and I must have missed it at the time): <<>> Oo-er. Should we bring our broomsticks? Kazz said: <> Hi Kazz! Allow me to be very British and shake hands with you to the tune of "Let's Get Physical" by Olivia Neutron-Bomb. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 01:36:29 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:36:29 -0000 Subject: Number of Students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92je6t+kdmb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8090 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > > One another note...When they all crammed into the small car that had been > magically expanded, what did the muggles see? Oh, you guys are making my brain hurt now... :) Just believe that the windows were customized (either tinted or mirrored) and call it a day. --Ebony From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 30 01:49:58 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:49:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) References: Message-ID: <001a01c07202$d1a7a5a0$dac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8091 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Walton To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) Caius Marcius said: "large chunks of Western cultural and political history (not to mention Lloyd Webber musicals) are rendered incomprehensible to anyone ignorant of [The Bible]" ::funny look:: And this is supposed to be a BAD thing? --John ========================================= John Walton john at walton.to Generally, one finds that only barbarians exult in their ignorance. Good night, John boy. - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 01:47:39 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:47:39 -0000 Subject: MORE about HP gifts... In-Reply-To: <3A4D2FB4.532F651C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92jerr+42g8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8092 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: MORE MERCHANDISE -- I got like 4 pewter Dumbledore ornaments & several duplicate bookmarks, so I took all of it to Hallmark yesterday to exchange for .. I knew not what. Turns out -- I'm *so* excited, I was able to get the glass, handpainted Hermione ornament to go with my handpainted Harry ornament for all of $.63 after the exchanged items weighed in. Yay! Hurrah! They are hanging sweetly next to one another on my tree at this moment. > > Must decide if I want the Ron one as an investment or if he'd only get in the way of my H/H ornaments. LOL! I was just at the WB store here today... there's still lots and lots of Harry Potter stuff in stock... looks much as it did in the beginning of November... and nothing's on sale. The manager said they're gearing up for the big movie next November... no discounts on HP in 2001 in sight. Not cool. I don't like the WB's ornaments. The Harry one was okay, but Hermione is honey-blonde with blue eyes. (Somehow I get the sneaking suspicion that the "new Hermione" was derived from test marketing... after all, Barbie doesn't have brown hair and brown eyes!) The Ron ornament is being Sorted but there's no red hair visible on either side of the hat. Must check Hudson's (same company as Dayton's--just a different name)... two sales associates were in line with me and said all Harry Potter stock was 50% off. The item I want next is the Quidditch bathrobe. Very plush, my favorite color. My advice, Penny? Get the Ron ornament... just hang him on the other side of Harry! ;) --Ebony From amy at wintersmoon.com Sat Dec 30 01:59:51 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:59:51 -0000 Subject: Number of Students Message-ID: <92jfin+k82v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8093 I'm in the middle of re-reading SS/PS and I noticed that when JKR is describing the Stadium seats, she says that there are "a couple hundred seats...". I'm thinking that this contradicts what's said later about the 200 Slytherin watching...multiply that by 4 and even if the the other houses don't have quite as many students, you're still talking between 600 and 800 students...that's a little bit more than "a couple hundred". Of course, when the 200 Slytherin were there, they didn't all *have* to be in seats...some of them could be standing elsewhere I guess. Also...have you all discussed whether a certain number of students are accepted each year or if that number is flexible? I would imagine that the Knight Bus driver wouldn't have necessarily have gone to Hogwarts. I've always gotten the impression that Hogwarts is pretty much like a "private" school - admission is by invitation only. If the number of students accepted each year is a flexible number, then the number of students at Hogwarts could be vastly different from year to year. Say you've got 200 students accepted in one year...they're now 7th year students. The following year, only 50 new ones come in (it was a slow year for Wizards and Witches births)...you've just dropped your attendance by 150. Amy From amy at wintersmoon.com Sat Dec 30 02:06:02 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 02:06:02 -0000 Subject: Question about the Ministry of Magic Message-ID: <92jfua+p6b8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8094 Has there been any discussion about how long the Ministry of Magic has been in place? Or Mr. Weasley's department? (Misuse of Muggle Artifacts) In the first chapter(?) of PS/SS when Hagrid flys in on Sirius's motercycle, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to Dumbledore or McGonagall. Which means that a)that didn't really care that the motorcycle was illegal, b)the Department for the misuse of muggle artifacts didn't exist, or c) Sirius was exempt from the rules that the rest of the witches and warlocks had to abide by. I think I'm personally going for b. I was just curious if anything like this had been addressed on the list before. Amy From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 02:06:10 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:06:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of Students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8095 > >Also...have you all discussed whether a certain number of students >are accepted each year or if that number is flexible? I would >imagine that the Knight Bus driver wouldn't have necessarily have >gone to Hogwarts. I've always gotten the impression that Hogwarts is >pretty much like a "private" school - admission is by invitation only. > >If the number of students accepted each year is a flexible number, >then the number of students at Hogwarts could be vastly different >from year to year. Say you've got 200 students accepted in one >year...they're now 7th year students. The following year, only 50 >new ones come in (it was a slow year for Wizards and Witches >births)...you've just dropped your attendance by 150. > >Amy > I had the impression during SS that Hogwarts only took Qualified Wizards. Remeber how Neville was so relieved that he was excepted? Or how Hagrid said its the best wizarding school in the country, names been down since he was born? I bet there are many other, less prestigus acadamys of wizadry. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 02:11:24 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:11:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Question about the Ministry of Magic Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8096 >Has there been any discussion about how long the Ministry of Magic >has been in place? Or Mr. Weasley's department? (Misuse of Muggle >Artifacts) In the first chapter(?) of PS/SS when Hagrid flys in on >Sirius's motercycle, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to >Dumbledore or McGonagall. Which means that a)that didn't really care >that the motorcycle was illegal, b)the Department for the misuse of >muggle artifacts didn't exist, or c) Sirius was exempt from the rules >that the rest of the witches and warlocks had to abide by. I think >I'm personally going for b. I was just curious if anything like this >had been addressed on the list before. > >Amy > I actually had a question that is quite similar... How long has the Decree for underage wizardry been along? In SS Petunia Dursley says that Lilly always used to come home and turn teacups into frogs, or something to that effect; could something have happened in recent years to warrent these changes? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sat Dec 30 02:41:35 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 02:41:35 -0000 Subject: Number of Students In-Reply-To: <92jfin+k82v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ji0v+qq1i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8097 I've always been confused on the topic of how many people attend Hogwarts. In Harry's year in his house there are 8 known students and if there are only around that number of students to each house for each year there couldn't be 1000 students as someone said J.K. said in an interview. It is all really confusing to me. I can see maybe half the number of students and Harry's year is just smaller than the rest but i never got the fealing of a thousand students being there. Also another note, I read in an interview from a long time ago that J.K. said that there were between 600-800 students so she really needs to make up her mind and potray that amount of students through her books. ~Star~ (PS: i'm new to this group and i just want to say that i'm a big Harry Potter fan and that i am so happy i have somewhere to talk about the books, no one i know is into the books and it's been a pain having to keep my questions and thoughts about them bottled up inside me! You all will be hearing alot from me!) From ABoyko at starchoice.com Sat Dec 30 03:02:56 2000 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:02:56 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape as a cook [OT] Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE0B@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8098 I have searched the site and can't find them! That red lettering on a black background doesn't help. :-( Angela > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape as a cook [OT] > > Masoumi, an author from FFN, has a few drawings of Snape teaching cooking > on > her website: http://romanov28.tripod.com/ > > They are not to be missed ^_^. > > ~Firebolt > > Jim Ferer wrote: > > > Comparing Potions to "Chemistry/Cookery/Pharmacology" gave me a > > thought. I can just picture Snape as an executive chef somewhere. the > > personality fits. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From heiditandy at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 03:08:49 2000 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:08:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats Message-ID: <20001230030849.98426.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8099 With apologies to The Little Prince, a bowler hat looks like a boa constrictor that swallowed an elephant --- ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > Have you seen the TV show the "Avengers" with > Patrick MacNee? He wears a > bowler hat. KInd of round on top like a bowling > ball. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kassie Ostrander [SMTP:Kassie21 at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:18 PM > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowler hats > > > > > > > > Not to sound like a stupid american, but this has > been driving me crazy. > > What does a bowler hat look like? can someone > describe it to me? > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > ===== heidi tandy What Maureen Dowd thinks David Souter was thinking on Monday, December 11, 2000: I know the Bushes are furious at me. That'll teach 'em to assume that a guy living like a monk in an isolated New Hampshire farmhouse is some kind of Live Free or Die nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 30 03:33:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:33:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] GoF Question References: <00ef01c0714d$ea252fe0$b0a90f18@wtrford1.mi.home.com> Message-ID: <3A4D579F.72F06ED9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8100 Greg and Kelly wrote: > Ok, I've almost finished listening to GoF (I'd already read it once). But I have a question, and it has probably come up, but I"m new, so if there are old posts, please just point me in the right direction. . . After Moody took Harry up to his office, after Harry escaped from Voldemort, Dumbledore told Snape to go get the truth serum, and also to go get Winky, the house elf from the kitchen. This was before they knew that the impostor Moody was actually Barty Crouch Jr. . . . How did he know?? Did I miss something?? How could he have ever suspected a dead man of impersonating Moody? I don't think Dumbledore knew for certain that it was Barty Jr. But he did know that Moody was not Moody, but someone using polyjuice. I suspect he sent for Winky because Winky had clearly been in the middle of things, with the involvement at the Quidditch Cup and all, and just as clearly knew more than she was telling. He probably wanted her right there while he was questioning whoever, so the facts could be brought out. As for the truth serum, he knew he'd need that no matter who it was. No oddity in his sending for that. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 30 03:35:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:35:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] just Bowlers References: <00d501c0715d$39fdb780$3c3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A4D5815.34C72588@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8101 Neil Ward wrote: > << What does a bowler hat look like? can someone describe it to me?>>> > > Dee suggested: > > <<>> > > I think a bowler hat (bowler) is similar to an American Derby; it's a short, hard, felt hat (usually black) with a rounded dome and an even brim which turns up slightly at the edges. The hat Dee described is a top hat, opera hat or stovepipe, if IIR-Mary Poppins-C. I think you're mistaken. I've seen Mary Poppins often enough in the past three years to have every nuance and line memorized (sort of the way non-parents often have Monty Python down), and George Banks does wear a bowler. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 30 03:38:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:38:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Stationary Set References: <92emre+ndmv@eGroups.com> <020201c070bd$a07313c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <006c01c070be$6ee56b40$202907d5@oemcomputer> <3A4D3135.D00FA461@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A4D58CC.972EC528@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8102 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > 8 pages of stationary, Nice to know it doesn't move while you're writing on it--perhaps a stationery set with such magical connotations needs such an assurance? --Amanda From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Dec 30 04:39:59 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 04:39:59 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Anne books-Gilbert & Christine In-Reply-To: <91terb+9ns9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92jouv+m78v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8103 This is horribly OT, I know, but I must leap to the defense of Gilbert Blythe. So bear with me, or I'll feed you all some of Neil's mice pies! Fact: Gilbert was never engaged to Christine Stuart. She was actually engaged to someone from her hometown the entire time she and Gilbert "saw" each other. He was merely being nice to the sister of a friend. Fact: Anne was in a foul mood when she and Gilbert went to dinner at Mrs. Fowler's and knowing Christine was going to be there did not help her mood. It was their anniversary and he didn't seem to remember it, but in reality he was simply worried about a patient of his and preoccupied with wondering if he had made the right decision regarding her care. Fact: It was Christine who was flirting with Gilbert. Fact: Gilbert Blythe loved Anne Shirley from the moment she cracked her slate over his head back in the Avonlea school. WARNING: NEVER INSULT GILBERT BLYTHE IN MY PRESENCE! Trina (who finds Hagrid's line quite handy) From kathleen at carr.org Sat Dec 30 04:05:16 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:05:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ebony! Re: Anti-HP Site Message-ID: <200012300451.eBU4puU13945@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8104 >I've tried 4 different times to access this piece as I'm actually the >one responsible for the Religion & HP FAQ. Penny: I suppose this may be one of those obscure things that only librarians read, but there was a very eloquent article recently in Horn Book Magazine by Kimbra Wilder Gish about the religious objections to HP. (Of course, it still didn't explain why some people feel they have the right to decide what other people's children can and cannot read, but that's another issue.) Anyway, if you think it would be helpful I would be happy to fax you a copy (they don't have it on their website, unfortunately). Kathy kathleen at carr.org From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 07:37:02 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 07:37:02 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] just Bowlers References: <00d501c0715d$39fdb780$3c3770c2@c5s910j> <3A4D5815.34C72588@texas.net> Message-ID: <004e01c07233$4d8479c0$653770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8105 I said: <<>> Amanda replied: <<>> You're right, I was mistaken. I must have been thinking of something else entirely. I will now write out the lyrics to "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" 100 times. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Dec 30 07:50:54 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 07:50:54 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <3A4B46B6.555092CB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92k44u+c7av@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8106 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer >>> >>>Ah ... in short: she bought him expensive birthday gifts in CoS, PoA &> GoF (granted, we don't even know when Ron's birthday *is* or what> Hermione might be buying him); she chose to spend all or the vast> majority of her time with Harry rather than Ron during the H/R fight;<<<<<<<<<<<< For some reason, I was thinking there were more pre-GoF 'clues'. Okay, true about the presents, both the Harry and Ron parts. I always thought she spent her time with Harry because she felt badly for him. If she didn't hang around with him, he'd be alone. She's too nice to let Harry be all by himself. I know someone mentioned Ron was hanging around with a group of guys... >>it's Harry who is the recipient of Krum's jealousy, not Ron > ("Herm-own-ninny talks about Harry all the time according to Krum); she> kissed Harry at the end of GoF.<<<<<<<<<< Well, Harry was the one going through the whole tri-wizard ordeal. Plus, he always has Vold trying to kill him. She's worried about him. What is there to say about Ron? I don't know what to think about the kiss... >>>It's also just a feeling that I have as> well, much like the R/H shippers see a mutual attraction between those> two, I see evidence that Hermione likes Harry instead. I'm very> intrigued by the girl that came up with the "Square" theory that Ebony> talked about yesterday, before PoA. I know I wouldn't have picked up on > it until after PoA.<<<<<<<<<<<<< Yeah, you know, that site belongs to a girl named Shanna, or Shana, don't remember now; she's about fifteen, somewhere in CA. I posted a link to her previous HP site (this other that Ebony posted is Shanna's new one, I think), back on hpanon, way back when (or it may have been Hogwarts Adult School). Her's was the first HP site I went to and bookmarked. She has the best rumors. Would love to know where she gets some of that info. I don't believe I ever saw the page with the 'square theory'. Though I don't really see the evidence that Harry likes Herm, I can see the F-I-T-D theory. Aside from the crush on Cho, it doesn't seem like Harry likes anyone. Not quite a square, what would you call it? HARRY / \ GINNY HERMIONE \ RON >>I guess I just agree with the instincts & intuition of all these teenage> kids who think Hermione likes Harry. It's a gut feeling, combined with> the "evidence" cited above. I know it won't be strong enough to> convince any R/H shipper to change sides, but it's good enough for me.> I still put my money on some variation of Farmer in the Dell/Square> theory.<<<<<<<<<<< I wonder though, if the teenage kids are pairing Herm with Harry because Herm is such a great character, so she'd _have_ to be with the "hero"? Maybe the teen kids (was it all girls, or did boys feel the same?) are thinking that -they'd- go for the "hero" so, that's who Herm should be with? (Projecting how they would feel onto Herm.) You know, the 'hero' -always- gets 'the girl'... (Geez, did that make ~any~ sense?) >>>There are also people like my sister, who have read each book through> once, and are amazed that people would think anything other than> Hermione likes Harry but Ron likes Hermione. Since she has accurately> predicted more about each book's surprises & plot twists than anyone> else I know, I'll put my money on her instincts as well. <<<<<<<<<<<< Hmm. She may be absolutely right. The first time I read the books, and before I knew ANY of you guys , I didn't see any 'Herm likes Harry', just Ron likes Herm. And, of course, this is from someone who hasn't made any correct predictions...YET... ;o] [[[> > I don't see it like this, either. I do expect rays of hope for the> > surviving good guys (and for us as well), and, as of now, I'm still> > putting my money on R/He, Ha/G. I in no way see the ending as> > maudlin or schmaltzy. By the same token, I don't see the end being> > gloomily, depressingly dark, either. Somber, but hopeful...? More> > like that...]]]] > >>>Yes -- like you, I see the ending as being something somewhere in > between schmaltzy and dead depressing. I don't think it will be all > gloom & doom at the end; there will likely be a ray of sunshine & hope> for our surviving characters. But, I think there will have been losses> along the way.<<<<<<<< Absolutely agreed. >>>And, I just don't see JKR as the type author who will go> for the "tie *everything* up with a neat bow" at the end.<<<<<<<<< *Everything*? No. I don't see that happening. I CAN see her pairing off Ha/G and R/He, though. (Probably just my latest incorrect prediction, right? Just call me Trelawney...) I'd be surprised if there WEREN'T several loose threads hanging, in case she decides she may want to return to HP someday... [[> > Bet you guys wish I had stayed lurking, right?]] > >>No, not at all. Great thoughts! > > Penny<<<<<<<<<<<< Haha. Why, thank you, Penny. For the longest time (what two, three months?) I felt I had nothing else to say... Should have known better.. Oh, and does anyone know? Will the owl poster for the movie be available for purchase? I'd love one that says "Philosopher's Stone" with green ink. Think I'll start practicing--- "Accio poster! Accio poster!" I FEEL the POW-ah... Kelley From astrothena at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 08:13:28 2000 From: astrothena at yahoo.com (astrothena at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 08:13:28 -0000 Subject: Question about the Ministry of Magic In-Reply-To: <92jfua+p6b8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92k5f8+9p03@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8107 Don't forget, when Sirius was flying around on his motorcycle, the Ministry was busy just trying to fight Voldemort. I'm sure they must have let some violations slide by. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > Has there been any discussion about how long the Ministry of Magic > has been in place? Or Mr. Weasley's department? (Misuse of Muggle > Artifacts) In the first chapter(?) of PS/SS when Hagrid flys in on > Sirius's motercycle, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to > Dumbledore or McGonagall. Which means that a)that didn't really care > that the motorcycle was illegal, b)the Department for the misuse of > muggle artifacts didn't exist, or c) Sirius was exempt from the rules > that the rest of the witches and warlocks had to abide by. I think > I'm personally going for b. I was just curious if anything like this > had been addressed on the list before. > > Amy From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Dec 30 09:40:39 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:40:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) References: <92jb1k+987b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010d01c07246$e957daa0$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8108 > Harry Potter doesn't conflict with Christian principles in any way, > whatever the conservative wing may say. They don't own Christianity. And I read statements of different christs that said that the books teach children goodness and braveness, so obviously there are huge differences... Dinah From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Dec 30 09:55:55 2000 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:55:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Question about the Ministry of Magic References: <92k5f8+9p03@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010f01c07246$eb463d20$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8109 > Don't forget, when Sirius was flying around on his motorcycle, the > Ministry was busy just trying to fight Voldemort. I'm sure they must > have let some violations slide by. Okay, so we have 1. flying cars, which are a no-no 2. flying carpets, which are forbidden, too 3. flying motorbike, ditto and, ram-ta-ta-tam 4. flying broomsticks, which are allowed. And last time I looked, those were "Muggle-Artefacts", too. Dinah From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 30 10:09:22 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 21:09:22 +1100 Subject: Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) Message-ID: <01C072A6.AD2FC320.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8110 Kimberly:"My pet 'I wonder' for the moment is - what was Dumbledore's role in Flamel's alchemy research? According to my admittedly muggle calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 when he was born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life expectancies are even longer than I thought) that he must already have been tippling a certain elixer. So what would there be left for Dumbledore to do?" Jim: Perhaps Dumbledore was his protoge, his research assistant. But Flannel still had - somehow - to get to 524. And JKR appears to be indicating that AD is getting old and tired at 150. I can see the extended life thing - but I doubt that it takes one to 524. (and its just occurred to me this would make Flannel born around the time of NHNick - spooky eh?) Storm -----Original Message----- From: Jim Ferer [SMTP:jferer at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 10:20 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Splitting Hairs From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Dec 30 10:36:37 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 21:36:37 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of Students, who goes to school? Message-ID: <01C072A8.9C61C820.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8111 References Amy! References (please) On p123 (brit/aust ed) PS chapter 'Hallowe'en' she says "Hundreds of seats were raised in stands" which is pretty different to 'a couple of hundred' And where in CoS does it say the 200 Slytherin students? I can't find it in my edition at all. The description on p.125/6, COS "the rouge bludger' (which is where I assume you are looking) doesn't give any numbers. I agree that entrance to Hogwarts is by invitation only, but I thought (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) that JKR has said that Hogwarts was the only wizarding school for the all of the UK. I understand the idea of varying student numbers but I can't imagine, in a population presently unaffected by war or famine that changes in birthrate would be significant (ie if it were to drop it would stay low for a number of years and then raise as circumstances improved) And I disagree re Ernie and other 'plebs' (for want of a better term) of the wizarding world not needing specifically focused magical training. If they have any magically skill level they will need to be trained to they can control it. IMO jobs don't appear to be 'allocated' on the basis of other than magical interests and skills (ie Fudge - I just can't see him being a great wizard!) but on other, non-magical, aptitudes. Obviously in some jobs specific magical powers are going to be more useful (eg Autor) but for many people there powers would simply be life-enhancing rather than life-defining (Or so I reckon). Had Neville been a squib he would have attended the local comprehensive. (them's fighting words) And completely OT (because that is so unlike me *not*) lock up your dogs and cats (and ferrets and rats) for the next few nights. Even animals who have no history of noise phobia can suddenly develop it and you don't want to lose a companion animal to the fireworks, or at least I assume you don't want to. Storm (who is annoyed that people have started letting of fireworks ALL READY - BASTARDS - and who will be spending tomorrow night in a house full of sedated dogs and wondering cats) -----Original Message----- From: Amy Winters [SMTP:amy at wintersmoon.com] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 12:00 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of Students I'm in the middle of re-reading SS/PS and I noticed that when JKR is describing the Stadium seats, she says that there are "a couple hundred seats...". I'm thinking that this contradicts what's said later about the 200 Slytherin watching...multiply that by 4 and even if the the other houses don't have quite as many students, you're still talking between 600 and 800 students...that's a little bit more than "a couple hundred". Of course, when the 200 Slytherin were there, they didn't all *have* to be in seats...some of them could be standing elsewhere I guess. Also...have you all discussed whether a certain number of students are accepted each year or if that number is flexible? I would imagine that the Knight Bus driver wouldn't have necessarily have gone to Hogwarts. I've always gotten the impression that Hogwarts is pretty much like a "private" school - admission is by invitation only. If the number of students accepted each year is a flexible number, then the number of students at Hogwarts could be vastly different from year to year. Say you've got 200 students accepted in one year...they're now 7th year students. The following year, only 50 new ones come in (it was a slow year for Wizards and Witches births)...you've just dropped your attendance by 150. Amy To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sat Dec 30 11:52:26 2000 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 11:52:26 -0000 Subject: Question about the Ministry of Magic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92ki9q+g795@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8112 In GoF Barty Crouch mentions how his Grandfather had a flying carpet - before they were made illegal. Also in CoS Mrs. Weasley mentions that Arthur wrote the protection of muggle artifacts laws himself. I don't think we're ever told how long Arthur has worked there but the laws can only have existed for that length of time. It's quite possible that a new swathe of muggle protection laws came in all at once, to allow Lilly Evans practising magic underage before that, in the same way the European Commission introduced a whole load of new standards and laws to Britain when we joined up (I think JKR is satirising this to some extent with alot of this stuff, particularly Percy's cauldron thickness in GoF). Dai --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > > > >Has there been any discussion about how long the Ministry of Magic > >has been in place? Or Mr. Weasley's department? (Misuse of Muggle > >Artifacts) In the first chapter(?) of PS/SS when Hagrid flys in on > >Sirius's motercycle, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to > >Dumbledore or McGonagall. Which means that a)that didn't really care > >that the motorcycle was illegal, b)the Department for the misuse of > >muggle artifacts didn't exist, or c) Sirius was exempt from the rules > >that the rest of the witches and warlocks had to abide by. I think > >I'm personally going for b. I was just curious if anything like this > >had been addressed on the list before. > > > >Amy > > > > > I actually had a question that is quite similar... How long has the Decree > for underage wizardry been along? In SS Petunia Dursley says that Lilly > always used to come home and turn teacups into frogs, or something to that > effect; could something have happened in recent years to warrent these > changes? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 01:01:38 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:01:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students References: <92ji0v+qq1i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011201c072c5$3c613060$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8113 > I can see ... maybe half the number of students and Harry's > year is just smaller than the rest Hmmmm. What if HWMNBM heard about Trewlany's first prediction and pulled a king Herod on Harry's generation of baby wizards? Ron and the other full-blooded wizards in his age group are the survivors. Thus, Harry's year is about a forth the size of all the other years. And presumably Harry hasn't noticed yet ... > ~Star~ > (PS: i'm new to this group and i just want to say that i'm a big > Harry Potter fan and that i am so happy i have somewhere to talk > about the books, no one i know is into the books and it's been a pain > having to keep my questions and thoughts about them bottled up inside > me! Welcome Star! And as for all those thoughts and questions you've put down to cellar--hey, it's New Year's isn't it? So haul 'em up and pop the corks! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 30 13:43:08 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 13:43:08 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students References: <92ji0v+qq1i@eGroups.com> <011201c072c5$3c613060$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <000d01c07266$734e0ee0$a63f7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8114 > Hmmmm. What if HWMNBM heard about Trewlany's first prediction and pulled a > king Herod on Harry's generation of baby wizards? Ron and the other > full-blooded wizards in his age group are the survivors. Thus, Harry's year > is about a forth the size of all the other years. And presumably Harry > hasn't noticed yet ... > HMI back !! It's actually quite feasible - Voldy wasn't after James and Lily, but Harry. Same goes for the Longbottoms. Harry might not have twigged because the fact hasn't been mentioned. and if they have to qualify to get in, he could just have thought that there weren't many boys of his age that were eligible. I think that you may have just hit upon something. Michelle From amy at wintersmoon.com Sat Dec 30 15:19:12 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:19:12 -0000 Subject: Number of Students, who goes to school? In-Reply-To: <01C072A8.9C61C820.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <92kudg+uctf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8115 Storm wrote... > References Amy! References (please)> I know, I know...and I'll try to do better in the future. I've been at my parents for a week now, using their computer. The only HP book I have with me is SS, which I've been reading to pick up more little details. I was downstairs, writing the email from memory, the book upstairs and my parents internet connection gets tempermental at times, so...but I will try to do better in the future. >On p123 (brit/aust ed) PS chapter 'Hallowe'en' she says "Hundreds of seats were raised in stands" which is pretty different to 'a couple of hundred< Yeah, I saw that when I looked it up last night before going to bed...but that still comes across to be as maybe 500 or 600 seats, not thousands. (If there had been 2000 seats, shouldn't it have said "Thousands of seats"?) > And where in CoS does it say the 200 Slytherin students? I can't find it in my edition at all. The description on p.125/6, COS "the rouge bludger' (which is where I assume you are looking) doesn't give any numbers.< To be honest, I have no idea...I thought I had seen it in a previous email on this subject. > I agree that entrance to Hogwarts is by invitation only, but I thought (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) that JKR has said that Hogwarts was the only wizarding school for the all of the UK. I understand the idea of varying student numbers but I can't imagine, in a population presently unaffected by war or famine that changes in birthrate would be significant (ie if it were to drop it would stay low for a number of years and then raise as circumstances improved) And I disagree re Ernie and other 'plebs' (for want of a better term) of the wizarding world not needing specifically focused magical training. If they have any magically skill level they will need to be trained to they can control it.> I don't see where they're being trained to control their powers at Hogwarts - they're being taught to use them and taught to do different things with them. There probably is a certain amount of control that is learned for the students that either have Muggle parents or in Harry's case, were raised in the Muggle world. But, I think that comes more from simply understanding what they are. I don't think Ron needs any training to use his power - just instruction as to what to do with it (learning new spells, charms, etc). Molly and Arthur would have (I hope) seen to it that the kids weren't blowing up things every time they got mad. Can you imagine what their house would have been like if they hadn't? 7 children...even the best behaved children will throw a temper tantrum once in a while. Molly and Arthur would have HAD to have trained their children to at least control their power. Of course, this also seems to make Hogwarts an elitist(sp) school, which I'm not sure I really like. So maybe I'd be happier going with the idea that all wizards and witches in the UK go to Hogwarts. I'm off to begin a 5 hour drive home...what I wouldn't give to be able to apparate Amy From foxmoth at qnet.com Sat Dec 30 15:30:57 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:30:57 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <92k44u+c7av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92kv3h+5c2s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8116 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > > I wonder though, if the teenage kids are pairing Herm with Harry > because Herm is such a great character, so she'd _have_ to be with > the "hero"? Maybe the teen kids (was it all girls, or did boys feel > the same?) are thinking that -they'd- go for the "hero" so, that's > who Herm should be with? (Projecting how they would feel onto > Herm.) You know, the 'hero' -always- gets 'the girl'... (Geez, did > that make ~any~ sense?) I wanted to get the boy angle myself, so I asked an expert, my 14 year old son. ME: "So, you know that kiss at the end of Goblet of Fire? Where Hermione kisses Harry?" MICHAEL: Yeah. ME: Is that significant? MICHAEl: Mom, that's INCREDIBLY significant. ME:So, what does it mean? MICHAEL:(grins) It means Hermione has a secret crush on Harry. Hmmm, I wonder if Harry thinks so too? Pippin (who still thinks that one day, maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of her life, Hermione belongs with Ron) From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 15:29:21 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:29:21 -0600 Subject: Book Banning References: <92iu04+hj1r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4DFF51.277551FD@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8117 Hi -- Caius Marcius wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK evangelicals have not succeeded in > a number of decades in "banning" or "burning" any book in this > country ? i.e., they have not caused any volume to become widely > unavailable to the public at large. At worst, they have had books > removed from school libraries or stopped books from being taught in > class, and/or tried to discourage people from reading them. This > seems to be the thrust of the anti-HP site that Ebony referenced for > us. We may not agree with this, but that is a vastly different thing > than censorship (e.g., making a work difficult or impossible to > access, and making the possession of it a crime ? as in the Soviet > Union, when Solzhenitsyn was only available through "samizdat", and > you could do hard time if a copy were found in your possession). While I see the distinction you're trying to make CMC, I'm not sure you're using the word "censorship" entirely appropriately. According to my dictionary, censorship is the act or process of censoring. "Censoring" is to examine and expurgate. "Expurgate" is to cleanse or purge. "Purge" is, among other things, to "remove." There's nothing in any of these definitions to square entirely with your notion that censorship is only in play if it applies to a wide segment of a population or carries extreme penalties for violation. In other words, isn't it still "censorship" if a religious group is successful in having the HP books (as an example) removed from a small local library that serves a community of say 200 people? Sure, those 200 people could perhaps drive 20 miles to the nearest larger community where the books had not been banned, so complete "access" has not been removed. But, in the final analysis, wasn't what happened in my hypothethical community of 200 people still censorship? Having books removed from libraries or enacting regulations that prohibit certain books from being read in school classrooms *is* in my mind nothing short of censorship. Those students or people can certainly typically gain access to the books through some other source, but their ordinary channels of supply have been cut off, because some other group of persons was successful in limiting free choice to available works of literature, art, etc. I would also argue that censorship of this nature is in fact a dangerous trend for our society. It's dangerous because of what we lawyers like to refer to as the "slippery slope" argument: if you ban one book for objectionable content, it's not too much longer before you're banning lots of other books right along with it. The above scenario has played out only very recently in a small community south of Houston, Santa Fe, Texas (side note: this is the same community that took school prayer to the Supreme Court last term). Several religious groups banded together with a proposal that the Harry Potter books be banned from school libraries and classrooms. The School Board in Santa Fe eventually voted to (a) allow the books to remain in the library but only permit students to check them out with parental permission forms, (b) ban students from overtly loaning the books to one another on the sly, and (c) prohibit the books from being read to students in classrooms. All the above doesn't seem too completely unreasonable at first blush, right? Well .... except that the next thing you know, that same coalition of religious groups decided that they wanted to ban all books from school libraries that contained even a single profane word. This would result in removing literally hundreds of books from those school libraries, many of them readily acknowledged as "classics." This measure was only voted down by the slimmest of margins (one vote). So, you may argue that I'm judgmental & extremist in my own way for "overstating" the dangers posed by book banning, but I'll consider it a dangerous precedent all the same. > We may also disagree with their rationale for opposing HP, but > certainly > there are a number of groups across the political spectrum who have > attempted (with varying degrees of success) the very same thing with > literary works which they dislike (just think of Huckleberry Finn). Is banning Huck Finn any less dangerous to our society than banning HP? > Now, it may be argued that evangelicals would institute such Draco- > nain restrictions if only they had the power. Perhaps. But they > don't and in my measured judgment they never will. America is too > fragmented (or "diverse," if you like a nicer word). Cromwell is not > coming back, and Cotton Mather reigns no more. I suppose you have more confidence in the likely interpretation to be given to the Bill of Rights by our Supreme Court than I do at the moment. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 15:40:15 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:40:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues References: <92k44u+c7av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4E01DE.F91A17B4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8118 Hi -- SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com wrote: > >>it's Harry who is the recipient of Krum's jealousy, not Ron > > ("Herm-own-ninny talks about Harry all the time according to Krum); > she> kissed Harry at the end of GoF.<<<<<<<<<< > > Well, Harry was the one going through the whole tri-wizard ordeal. > Plus, he always has Vold trying to kill him. She's worried about > him. What is there to say about Ron? Yeah, but if she really had a crush on Ron (whether she acknowledged it or not), wouldn't he come up alot in her conversations? Harry himself is amazed because Krum regards him as a genuine rival (he's thinking to himself, I'm just this skinny 14 yr old kid and you're an international quidditch star). In contrast, I have zero impression that Krum regards Ron as a rival in any form. > Though I don't really see the evidence that Harry likes Herm, I can > see the F-I-T-D theory. Aside from the crush on Cho, it doesn't seem > like Harry likes anyone. I have never heard any evidence that Harry likes Hermione. I have none. H/H is something I think would happen in the future ... but I think R/H is doomed because I don't think Hermione has those feelings for Ron. I think it's Harry that she likes. > Not quite a square, what would you call it? Well, it's still a square whether Harry likes Cho, someone else or no one. Isn't it? > I wonder though, if the teenage kids are pairing Herm with Harry > because Herm is such a great character, so she'd _have_ to be with > the "hero"? Maybe the teen kids (was it all girls, or did boys feel > the same?) are thinking that -they'd- go for the "hero" so, that's > who Herm should be with? (Projecting how they would feel onto > Herm.) You know, the 'hero' -always- gets 'the girl'... (Geez, did > that make ~any~ sense?) What you're saying does make sense, but I don't think it's so much that the teenagers are saying that Hermione belongs with Harry because he's the hero & she's a heroine of sorts. I think they're just saying that they perceive that Hermione likes Harry. As far as I know, none of them are arguing that Harry likes Hermione back either. Is this correct Ebony? Do the boys feel the same way the girls do? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 15:52:21 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:52:21 -0000 Subject: I Hate The Cover Art Message-ID: <92l0bl+vfe6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8119 I'm I the only one who HATES the cover art, particularly the way it depicts Harry? He looks like he's never been scared or angry or sad or thoughtful in his life, in fact he looks like a grinning imbecile. I know Harry Potter and that jerk on the cover is not Harry Potter. From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Dec 30 15:45:50 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:45:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues References: <92kv3h+5c2s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4E032E.BC0FD806@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8120 Hi -- foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > I wanted to get the boy angle myself, so I asked an expert, my 14 year > > old son. > ME: "So, you know that kiss at the end of Goblet of Fire? Where > Hermione kisses Harry?" > MICHAEL: Yeah. > ME: Is that significant? > MICHAEl: Mom, that's INCREDIBLY significant. > ME:So, what does it mean? > MICHAEL:(grins) It means Hermione has a secret crush on Harry. So, so far, *every* teenager who has been questioned by someone on this group has said that they think Hermione likes Harry. The kiss sounds more & more significant to me. > Pippin (who still thinks that one day, maybe not today, and maybe not > tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of her life, Hermione belongs with > > Ron) What -- so you don't trust Hermione to pick the right boy for herself? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 16:44:54 2000 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:44:54 -0000 Subject: Teenagers, sex and culture In-Reply-To: <92gns2+iolg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92l3e6+6gje@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8121 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > LOL! As for hormones... spend a day or two with modern kids the same > age as the HP characters. I'll admit, not *all* kids in the > upper range of the 10-14 age bracket are obsessed with the opposite > sex... but some are. According to my older students (the eighth > graders), they think it's extremely unrealistic that the HP > characters are still in the "latent stage" at 14-15. I did counter > with the arguments that have been batted around here (wizards live > longer, they have to control their emotions/magical powers, etc.). > But one of my students summed up their attitude about it this > summer. "Yeah, well, they're not space aliens, Miss > Thomas." I'd like to point out that American teenagers are quite likely to be different from teenagers from other cultures. The fact that they are all going through a similar biological change doesn't make *them* necessarily similar. The culture you grow up in determines to a great measure the way you view this biological change. And cultures vary enormously in the view they inculcate of body, sex, puberty. It seems to me that in American culture (which filters over here via TV and movies) body-sex-puberty is something different than in British culture. The fact that for (some) American teenagers sex-romance is of such central importance that they can't imagine it being otherwise, doesn't mean that we have to accept this as a universal truth. Sexual urges can be dealt with and thought about very differently. In the Middle Ages, for instance, sexual urges were viewed as so alien to the self that they were sometimes demonised (incubus, succubus). So, the fact that the biological process is the same, doesn't at all guarantee that the responses to it are the same. I think that this tendency to flatten a person to his/her "hormones" is a) very demeaning and b) is itself a cultural construct. Naama From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 16:53:16 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:53:16 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <3A4E032E.BC0FD806@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92l3ts+voem@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8122 Penny wrote: "So, so far, *every* teenager who has been questioned by someone on this group has said that they think Hermione likes Harry. The kiss sounds more & more significant to me. " Except this teenager. I know that I'm going against the popular opinion here but I'm just not that keen on labeling this kiss as significant. I'm not saying that it isn't or even that I don't think it could be but, when you look at the larger picture I don't see it. If for instance one of my female friends just up and kissed me on the cheek I would be at least a bit curious. I know hugging is different but I hug people all the time and that doesn't mean I have romantic feelings for them. Hermione gave Harry a hug in PS/SS when during the obstacles to get to the stone. After another three years of friendship I can see that two very close friends might exchange a kiss as a form of greeting or departure. I don't know you can say they wouldn't at fourteen but Harry has done so much...They found the stone then Harry had that ordeal in the chamber. Hermione was there when Harry found out the truth about his parent's death from a man who he was tempted to kill (Sirius) in PoA. And then it was Harry and Hermione that saved Sirius from the Dementor's kiss. In GoF Harry faced death in the form of the most evil wizard to ever live and came out alive. He witnessed the death of a friend (Cedric) and his future (along with the future of the whole wizarding world) is about as uncertain as can be. This is NOT you ordinary 14 year olds. If I had been through all this a kiss from a friend would be reassuring. I might be romantic but it wouldn't be strictly romantic. I'm not saying that this isn't H/H evidence but it's not the or most reliable. At least IMO.. :-) Scott From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 17:15:43 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:15:43 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Book Banning References: <92iu04+hj1r@eGroups.com> <3A4DFF51.277551FD@swbell.net> Message-ID: <00ae01c07284$3b7d70a0$5b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8123 Penny wrote, in response to Caius: <<>> I would say that whilst censorship might be implemented by an authoritative body in relation to a specific 'congregation,' it is often, as Penny suggests, not difficult to circumvent and certainly wouldn't apply to the population at large. Censorship suggests the alteration of the content ('expurgating' as indicated above) or the classification of the whole work for suitability ('examining' as above). I guess that in a school library books regarded as having unsuitable adult content might be censored in the latter sense and removed from the shelves. However, if that applied only in one library it would be a fairly toothless form of censorship. A ban, on the other hand, usually suggests the outlawing of something at the legislative level, with the attendant penalties. Even then, as with the prohibition of alcohol, it doesn't prevent people from access, it merely drives it underground and keeps black market traders in the lap of luxury. Thinking back to CMC's original post, I think it would be wrong to assume that extremists of whatever type could not change the law simply because they are a minority group; they can influence public opinion and, if they gain power, ignore the majority. IMO, the issue with religious opposition to the Harry Potter books (or any books for that matter) is whether that opposition could be interpreted as a reasonable move to protect those holding similar beliefs or as an attempt to dictate to the population at large. If it's the latter, I'd say it's unacceptable; if it's the former, I'd probably *think* it's unacceptable, but be more inclined to keep my nose out. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 17:34:41 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:34:41 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Book Banning (postscript) References: <92iu04+hj1r@eGroups.com> <3A4DFF51.277551FD@swbell.net> <00ae01c07284$3b7d70a0$5b3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <00c701c07286$e0aea560$5b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8124 I said: > IMO, the issue with religious opposition to the Harry Potter books (or any > books for that matter) is whether that opposition could be interpreted as a > reasonable move to protect those holding similar beliefs or as an attempt to > dictate to the population at large. If it's the latter, I'd say it's > unacceptable; if it's the former, I'd probably *think* it's unacceptable, > but be more inclined to keep my nose out. ...and, I should add, that in Penny's example of a religious group being successful in getting the HP books banned from a small local library, that *would* be unacceptable. In that case, the objecting parents should take responsibility for restricting what their children read and let the rest of the community make their own choices. However, when it comes to the school curriculum, I can see that it's very tricky: withdrawing children from classes in which a book is being taught seems OTT, so I can imagine some parents would suggest that the books be withdrawn instead. It comes down to whether the parents trust the school with their child's education and, ultimately, whether they have faith in the moral fibre of their children. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Dec 30 17:38:40 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:38:40 -0000 Subject: I Hate The Cover Art In-Reply-To: <92l0bl+vfe6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92l6j0+af21@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8125 I agree with your complaint about the childish looking covers. I am particularly annoyed by the US edition of Book 4. I suspect that the people who renamed "Philosopher's Stone" had a hand in the US cover art. Some of the HP cover art from other countries is better -- I particularly like the German depictions of Harry. On the other hand, some of the alternate covers are a lot worse than the US covers (Iceland, Iran). See the following website for a nice collection of international covers: http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/covergallery.htm -JF --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > I'm I the only one who HATES the cover art, particularly the way it > depicts Harry? He looks like he's never been scared or angry or sad > or thoughtful in his life, in fact he looks like a grinning imbecile. > I know Harry Potter and that jerk on the cover is not Harry Potter. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 17:45:00 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:45:00 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <3A4E01DE.F91A17B4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92l6us+868a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8126 Just when I thought I was going to get a *life* and be offline 'till the second... my car decides that it's sick of the snow and the brakes start coughing! AARGH! Oh, well... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > What you're saying does make sense, but I don't think it's so much that the teenagers are saying that Hermione belongs with Harry because he's the hero & she's a heroine of sorts. I think they're just saying that they perceive that Hermione likes Harry. As far as I know, none of them are arguing that Harry likes Hermione back either. Is this correct Ebony? Do the boys feel the same way the girls do? Actually, the few students in my classroom who are staunchly R/H were and are *all* girls. The first proponents of FITD were all eighth- grade boys. About 2/3 of the HP fanatics at my school seem to be boys. It's true that no one is arguing that Harry likes Hermione back. The kids argue that if anything, FITD will cause problems on Ron's part. My students' insistence on this square/betrayal theory was one of the reasons why I went back to my post-PoA H/H sentiment (admittedly, PoU was the other)... so please don't think I'm planting information in their heads. They have *no* idea that I'm such a fan... they just know that I've read the books and taught using them. I've been trying all vacation to comb the books and find evidence of Hermione's reciprocation of Ron's interest... I needed an "I knew I liked you, Ron, when..." scenario. I'm finding I'm making up stuff. I don't think any H/H shipper on list has ever said that Harry thinks of Hermione in canon at this point as anything other than one of his two best friends. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 17:59:12 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:59:12 -0000 Subject: Teenagers, sex and culture In-Reply-To: <92l3e6+6gje@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92l7pg+il8s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8127 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: I'd like to point out that American teenagers are quite likely to be different from teenagers from other cultures. The fact that they are all going through a similar biological change doesn't make *them* necessarily similar. The culture you grow up in determines to a great measure the way you view this biological change. And cultures vary enormously in the view they inculcate of body, sex, puberty. It seems to me that in American culture (which filters over here via TV and movies) body-sex-puberty is something different than in British culture. The fact that for (some) American teenagers sex-romance is of such central importance that they can't imagine it being otherwise, doesn't mean that we have to accept this as a universal truth. Sexual urges can be dealt with and thought about very differently. In the Middle Ages, for instance, sexual urges were viewed as so alien to the self that they were sometimes demonised (incubus, succubus). So, the fact that the biological process is the same, doesn't at all guarantee that the responses to it are the same. I think that this tendency to flatten a person to his/her "hormones" is a) very demeaning and b) is itself a cultural construct. ------------------------- Interesting assessment, Naama. I gritted my teeth while reading part of it--everyone here knows that I'm overly defensive of American kids. They're not nearly as brutish as some seem to think. It annoys me when people write them and their opinions off. The United States itself *is* a very unique cultural construct--I'm not sure that it can be compared effectively with anything else in world history. It's also a relatively young country... as John noted, one of the UK schools he attended is older than this country. I'll give you that our cultural youth may influence our collective thinking in some fashion. However, I used the above argument already with the kids... before I mentioned the fact that magical kids had to control their emotions, etc. I *did* say that the UK is emphatically *not* the US. "These aren't American kids in an American book, you guys! They don't think like you! Give them a break!" If I recall correctly, this is when the space alien comment was made. --Ebony From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 18:00:53 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:00:53 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cover Art/UK 'adult' GoF? References: <92l6j0+af21@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00d201c0728a$88cc0820$5b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8128 > Some of the HP cover art from other countries is better -- I > particularly like the German depictions of Harry. On the other hand, > some of the alternate covers are a lot worse than the US covers > (Iceland, Iran). See the following website for a nice collection of > international covers: I also like the German covers, which make Harry look rather trendy but - let's be frank - not very English. As many of you will know, the UK publishers produced two covers for each of the first three books - 'child-oriented' covers and 'adult-oriented' ones. As far as I am aware, the adult covers were used on the paperback versions (and audio versions) only, after the initial hardback editions had been out for a while. The adult covers feature somewhat spooky photoreal b/w images of significance to the story and I'm intrigued to know what they will use on the adult cover of GoF. To recap, here's what they used on the first three books:- PS - steam train CoS - flying car PoA - winged horse with eagle head (Buckbeak) These were all related to the alternative covers, but did not (I think) feature Harry or any of the human characters, so I would assume that the adult GoF would have a 'realistic' picture of a dragon, which was the main thing on the UK cover. Can anyone think of a single item, other than a dragon, that would sum up Goblet of Fire? The GoF itself, perhaps? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Dec 30 18:06:10 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:06:10 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teenagers, sex and culture References: <92l7pg+il8s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003101c0728b$34c4b0a0$14357bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8129 > > However, I used the above argument already with the kids... before I > mentioned the fact that magical kids had to control their emotions, > etc. I *did* say that the UK is emphatically *not* the US. "These > aren't American kids in an American book, you guys! They don't think > like you! Give them a break!" > > If I recall correctly, this is when the space alien comment was made. > Ebony, please do not take what I have to say as a slight on you and every other American. But you yourself have said that you don't know much about other cultures and, let's face it, how many American kids will have had the opportunity to experience what life over here is like ? Even if they have been to the UK, it's usually not possible to understand any culture unless you live in it for some considerable period of time. Don't forget that most kids think they know it all ( Whether they do or not is entirely another matter ). Naama has a good point and one that has played on my mind quite a bit when thinking about our discussions. Michelle From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Dec 30 17:48:02 2000 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:48:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I Hate The Cover Art References: <92l0bl+vfe6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006601c07288$a90268c0$4e49d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8130 ----- Original Message ----- From: > I'm I the only one who HATES the cover art, particularly the way it > depicts Harry? He looks like he's never been scared or angry or sad > or thoughtful in his life, in fact he looks like a grinning imbecile. > I know Harry Potter and that jerk on the cover is not Harry Potter. No, you are not alone. I really don't like the US cover art on books 1,2, or 3. These covers make Harry look way too much like Waldo in the "Where's Waldo" kids books. I had the worst time dispelling this image in my brain. In my opinion GoF isn't too bad and a lot better than the other 3. carole From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sat Dec 30 18:31:43 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 13:31:43 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <35.ec31012.277f840f@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8131 The more I read arguments either for H/H or R/H the more I am convinced that there will be no romantic relationships between these three at the end of Book VII (or beyond) and that if they are romantically involved it will be with persons outside their trio. I could see either an attempt at a relationship between Ron and Hermione that doesn't work out and/or Hermione trying to get involved w/ Harry and Harry turning her down (because he is afraid of what will happen to whoever is involved with him or because he's fallen for someone else). I still don't think Harry and Hermione are right for each other, but then I still don't particularly care for Hermione. (Eeek - there, I said it out loud. Now watch the bricks come flying!) I hope that if this happens, the 3 of them get over whatever happens and are still friends at the end of book VII, assuming they are all still alive (and I don't think they all will be). Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 18:53:29 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:53:29 -0000 Subject: Teenagers, sex and culture In-Reply-To: <003101c0728b$34c4b0a0$14357bd5@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <92lav9+t8gf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8132 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > >> > > Ebony, please do not take what I have to say as a slight on you and > every other American. But you yourself have said that you don't know much about other cultures... I don't recall saying this, Michelle. I don't know a whole lot about *British* culture, and will not pretend that I have expertise where I don't. But the above statement seems to imply that I don't know much about anything besides American culture (which in and of itself is a hodge-podge of just about every current civilization on the planet). Have I ever said this? > Naama has a good point and one that has played on my mind quite a bit when thinking about our discussions. (sigh) Again, I *do* see Naama's point. I stated that before. However, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm unsure that either of you see mine. My students were not trying to bash British kids or say *they* were weird; they were only trying to read their experiences into the books. They resented my "devil's advocate" statements, I think, because in their minds I was questioning their "ownership" of the books. Sort of the way a jazz aficionado/ critic from Albania might feel if an African-American questioned their ability to interpret their favorite music. I also doubt very seriously that as a rule American kids are less cosmopolitan or worldly wise that children in other cultures. I teach a number of children who are first-generation immigrants from elsewhere... this is not what I've observed. This thread is starting to feel a lot like the very uncomfortable ones that get started once in a while on the KS list of the "you can't possibly understand the books because you're not from Canada/Prince Edward Island" variety. Just an observation--I've also seen related "you can't understand" arguments often in African- American/Asian-American/Hispanic-American/Native American literature discussions and forums. Strangely, this cultural elitism always seems to manifest itself when a point is raised that someone disagrees with, then all of a sudden the American/white/Anglo is implied as being unqualified or not sophisticated enough to even make their observation. This is annoying--I might disagree with what you are saying, and perhaps even feel as if you have no right to say it because I know more about it than you do, but I respect your right to make your statement (case in point: the anti-HP Religious Right). One interesting aspect of cultural criticism is that the most *objective* critiques often come from persons who hail from outside of that culture (de Tocqueville comes to mind). --Ebony From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 19:27:08 2000 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:27:08 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <3A4E032E.BC0FD806@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92lcuc+7r5a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8133 -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > So, so far, *every* teenager who has been questioned by someone on this > group has said that they think Hermione likes Harry. Doesn't this seem strange to you? From my knowlege of kids that age it seems odd that it would be unanimous. It's specifically the time in many young lives when it begins to be fun to hold a dissenting opinion. So I've begun wondering about the question. > > ME: "So, you know that kiss at the end of Goblet of Fire? Where > > Hermione kisses Harry?" > > MICHAEL: Yeah. > > ME: Is that significant? I wonder, if you asked your average group of 8th graders who hadn't already discussed the topic simply if any of the characters had romantic feelings for each other, without having brought up the kiss, whether the responses might have been more varied. I don't know that it would, but it seems worth a try in the spirit of research. Pollsters, take note - does anyone have a group of previously unpolled 8th graders lying around? I can ask the two or three I have easy access to, but it won't be much of a sample. kimberly From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 30 21:08:35 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:08:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) References: <01C072A6.AD2FC320.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A4E4ED3.716F1423@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8134 About alchemy, and what Dumbledore was doing with Nicolas Flamel. Alchemy was not primarily the search for a way to turn lead into gold. While that was a byproduct, it was also an allegory for the transmutation of the alchemist. The processes and steps of alchemical research were intended as a search for truth, goodness, and self-improvement. By the time you can turn lead into gold, you're at a stage where you know that really doesn't matter. Sooo, it seems eminently logical to me that Dumbledore, clearly an individual who is interested in self-improvement and development, would seek Flamel, who achieved the Stone, to learn from, and ultimately to work with. Good theory? Whatcha think? --Amanda, who used to date a guy whose SCA persona was an alchemist Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Kimberly:"My pet 'I wonder' for the moment is - what was Dumbledore's > role in Flamel's alchemy research? According to my admittedly muggle > calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 > when he was born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life > expectancies are even longer than I thought) that he must already have > been tippling a certain elixer. So what would there be left for > Dumbledore to do?" > > Jim: Perhaps Dumbledore was his protoge, his research assistant. > > But Flannel still had - somehow - to get to 524. And JKR appears to be > indicating that AD is getting old and tired at 150. I can see the extended life > thing - but I doubt that it takes one to 524. (and its just occurred to me this > would make Flannel born around the time of NHNick - spooky eh?) > > Storm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Ferer [SMTP:jferer at yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 10:20 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Splitting Hairs > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 30 21:22:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:22:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students References: <92ji0v+qq1i@eGroups.com> <011201c072c5$3c613060$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A4E51FD.679E194F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8135 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > Hmmmm. What if HWMNBM heard about Trewlany's first prediction and pulled a > king Herod on Harry's generation of baby wizards? Ron and the other > full-blooded wizards in his age group are the survivors. Thus, Harry's year > is about a forth the size of all the other years. And presumably Harry > hasn't noticed yet ... Oh, excellent thought! A purpose, albeit twisted, behind the great numbers of killings. Has anyone in the books ever said *why* Voldemort was murdering? It sounded like he kind of was rampaging, and usually there's a reason.....and I've always suggested that each year's classes at Hogwarts are not "X number of students" but "all the students who qualify," which makes sense according to how the students are selected, and would make it almost certain that the size of class differed from year to year. So Harry's class is small, perhaps unusually so, and the reason is that some of the population their age was murdered. I wonder, did the Muggles that Voldemort killed have past wizarding progeny? --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 21:38:01 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 21:38:01 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <92lcuc+7r5a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92lkjp+5iov@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8136 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > I wonder, if you asked your average group of 8th graders who hadn't already discussed the topic simply if any of the characters had romantic feelings for each other, without having brought up the kiss, whether the responses might have been more varied. I don't know that it would, but it seems worth a try in the spirit of research. Hey, Kimberly and all... I know no one will believe me, but at lunchtime on July 10 the first question I asked over our sandwiches and apples was nothing ship- related. I asked them "did the death of Cedric surprise you?" (All the kids at this particular table spent the entire weekend reading GoF... I was fascinated by this and wanted their take on things.) The answer was yes--they were glad it was not Ron or the rumored Weasley twin. Then one kid (Jeff--mentioned him back in July) said, "I thought it would be Ron too. But the thing that got me most about this book is that now I think Ron is going to betray Harry." Me: "That's ridiculous. Ron is Harry's best friend." "But Ron's going to get really jealous of Harry in the next few books. Harry already has everything, and now Hermione likes him too." I'm sure this threw me as a loop. It jarred me enough so that I remember the gist of the conversation *and* several actual statements. Of course, I'd originally thought post-PoA there might be some evidence of H/H in GoF, but by the time I got to the chapters leading up to the first task, I'd shrugged it off. I got no sense whatsoever upon first reading that Hermione liked *anyone*... Ron, Harry, Krum, whoever. So I think I asked Jeff if he'd read GoF, or something else entirely. Then another, quieter kid (think it was Josh) pipes up with something like, "Yeah, I saw that too. God, I hope she doesn't kill Ron off... he's going to get mad and do something he shouldn't. And he's my favorite character!" "Well, that friendship is doomed, for sure," some of the others aid. "It's like a chain... each one likes someone else. If Hermione doesn't like Ron, and he finds out about her crush on Harry... boy, there's going to be some fireworks. He'd betray Harry because of it, I know he will." "Where in the world are you getting this from?" I said, extremely skeptical. "I'm your teacher, and I don't see all this crush stuff. Why do you think that Hermione sees Harry as anything other than her friend?" I remember Jeff telling me verbatim, "Because she kissed him." All around the table, there were nods. I'd actually forgotten that last page kiss upon first read. Someone actually had to show me their copy of the book--I remember it well. "So?" I said. You should have seen the looks on the kids' faces... it was like "humor her, she's an adult and doesn't know any better." It was almost as if every single one of them took this fact as much for granted as Harry having a scar. "Come on, Miss Thomas, she wouldn't have kissed him if she didn't like him." That's when (I told the list while we were still at Yahoo!) they told me to re-read the book again... giving their English teacher homework because she missed something essential. Needless to say, I remember that conversation as it was a first. So not only does this particular group think "shippiness" is important, they're asserting that this is central to the main plot... in their opinion, the DEs & V. have to get Harry's right and left arm away from him before they can really *get* to him. Seven months later, I'm with Scott... I'm still reluctant to chalk that up as an H/H victory. But to answer Kim's question, not only was my poll non-scientific, it didn't even start out as a poll at all. Just a discussion... and back then, I was on the opposite team anyway. If I'd thought of it, I might have gleaned more support for my case now. :) --Ebony From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 10:04:31 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:04:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students References: <92ji0v+qq1i@eGroups.com> <011201c072c5$3c613060$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A4E51FD.679E194F@texas.net> Message-ID: <025501c07311$1d4b8260$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8137 > Oh, excellent thought! A purpose, albeit twisted, behind the great numbers of > killings. Has anyone in the books ever said *why* Voldemort was murdering? It > sounded like he kind of was rampaging, and usually there's a reason.....and I've > always suggested that each year's classes at Hogwarts are not "X number of > students" but "all the students who qualify," which makes sense according to how > the students are selected, and would make it almost certain that the size of > class differed from year to year. Oooooo goody! I've come up with a real, bona fida theory! I don't really believe it though. How come, in four whole year at Hogwarts, neither Harry nor anyone else has remarked how small his class is? And also: HWMNBM must be an equal opportunity killer, since he apparently thinned out the girls just as thoroughly as he did the boys, and the future Slytherins just as mercilessly as the up-and-coming Gryffs. Still, it just might be ... and it could explain a few things ... Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat > > So Harry's class is small, perhaps unusually so, and the reason is that some of > the population their age was murdered. I wonder, did the Muggles that Voldemort > killed have past wizarding progeny? > > --Amanda > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sat Dec 30 22:21:33 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:21:33 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) References: <01C072A6.AD2FC320.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <3A4E4ED3.716F1423@texas.net> Message-ID: <006301c072af$5b2d1ba0$26c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8138 Good idea, yes Amanda what is a SCA persona? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Amanda Lewanski Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 30 december 2000 22:08 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) About alchemy, and what Dumbledore was doing with Nicolas Flamel. Alchemy was not primarily the search for a way to turn lead into gold. While that was a byproduct, it was also an allegory for the transmutation of the alchemist. The processes and steps of alchemical research were intended as a search for truth, goodness, and self-improvement. By the time you can turn lead into gold, you're at a stage where you know that really doesn't matter. Sooo, it seems eminently logical to me that Dumbledore, clearly an individual who is interested in self-improvement and development, would seek Flamel, who achieved the Stone, to learn from, and ultimately to work with. Good theory? Whatcha think? --Amanda, who used to date a guy whose SCA persona was an alchemist Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Kimberly:"My pet 'I wonder' for the moment is - what was Dumbledore's > role in Flamel's alchemy research? According to my admittedly muggle > calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 > when he was born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life > expectancies are even longer than I thought) that he must already have > been tippling a certain elixer. So what would there be left for > Dumbledore to do?" > > Jim: Perhaps Dumbledore was his protoge, his research assistant. > > But Flannel still had - somehow - to get to 524. And JKR appears to be > indicating that AD is getting old and tired at 150. I can see the extended life > thing - but I doubt that it takes one to 524. (and its just occurred to me this > would make Flannel born around the time of NHNick - spooky eh?) > > Storm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Ferer [SMTP:jferer at yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 10:20 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Splitting Hairs > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 22:50:21 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:50:21 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) References: <01C072A6.AD2FC320.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <3A4E4ED3.716F1423@texas.net> Message-ID: <003001c072b2$f937c220$e53770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8139 Amanda said: << Good theory? Whatcha think? It makes a lot of sense, given the apparent difference in their ages. Returning to the original thought about Dumbledore's role in Flamel's work, the text of PS describes Dumbledore as being particularly famous for "...his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel". This suggests that if Dumbledore started out as Flamel's student, he must have contributed something fairly astounding to later be considered Flamel's partner (given the fact that Flamel alone was credited with the Philosopher's Stone). I think there are historical examples of this sort of Spring-Autumn research partnership... if only I could remember one. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 23:09:36 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:09:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8140 >I don't really believe it though. How come, in four whole year at Hogwarts, >neither Harry nor anyone else has remarked how small his class is? And >also: >HWMNBM must be an equal opportunity killer, since he apparently thinned out >the girls just as thoroughly as he did the boys, and the future Slytherins >just as mercilessly as the up-and-coming Gryffs. > >Still, it just might be ... and it could explain a few things ... But, if you notice, there are more Slytherins and Hufflepuffs than Griffindors.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 23:20:43 2000 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:20:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8141 Okay, now i hope that noone gets too angry with me, but i have a couple of comments that i just have to say.... Harry doesn't like Hermione as anything more than a friend, when he and Ron had that fight, he said that things weren't as much fun with Hermione as your best friend. or some thing like that.. Number two: Hasn't anyone else been bothered by Harry and Ron's exclusiveness? When they got into that fight, Ron hung out with his brothers and Harry hung out with Hermione. There are other people their age, or are they just to good for them? The way they keep things from everyone is going to be a problem, i can just tell. With Voldemort back in power, and everyone choosing sides, Harry and Ron really should try to be nicer to everyone... Im not saying that they are mean, and everyone is probably just going to say that thats how kids are, but I remember being that age and if people appeared stuck up like that, it made it a lot harder to trust them. Okay, im pretty sure that i just wrote a lot of gibberish, so if this makes sense to anyone else, i give you permission to translate.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 23:26:06 2000 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Kazza mazzoo) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:26:06 -0000 Subject: Explanations please Message-ID: <92lque+lcqq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8142 hi, First off, on the msg line some say RE, some say SV. What does SV stand for?? Second of all, can anyone explain in PoA how Harry stops the dementors the first time round before he goes back in time with Hermione? First he thought it was his dad, but when he goes back he finds out it was himself, and stops them .. .but how did he manage it the first time. I think I have a bad case of Back To The Future here lol. It's like round robin, without the start! Does anyone know? Oh and a big shout out to Neil! Hi-de-ho neighbour =) Nice to meet you, and great rendition of Olivia Newton-John mate lol. Are you on Yahoo at all? Thanks for your help folks, and sorry if it's a weird one. Kazza From editor at texas.net Sat Dec 30 23:36:28 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:36:28 -0600 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) References: <01C072A6.AD2FC320.msmacgoo@one.net.au> <3A4E4ED3.716F1423@texas.net> <006301c072af$5b2d1ba0$26c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <3A4E717C.DE8D8046@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8143 Sara Ludwig wrote: > Good idea, yes Amanda > what is a SCA persona? A member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, an American (although we have overseas groups) organization that bills itself as a historical research group but which has probably more people interested in dressing as Vikings and partying. You develop a persona that could have existed, complete with personal history, armory, etc. And as I said, a former boyfriend's persona was an alchemist. In fact, he's the one that gave me the list of links to some of the names, that I posted a while back (don't have the message number, sorry). --Amanda From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Sun Dec 31 00:10:56 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:10:56 +0200 Subject: Hebrew fonts Message-ID: <004a01c072be$2b3944a0$e8a8003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8144 >PS - very OT >When trying to send back the message my OE asked wether I wanted to use Unicode or ordinary...I left it unicoded. I hope everybody can read it. I am sort of a font collector having stored about 200 in my computer and some more on disk. >I want this unicode font for my collection, Maya. I like the way it puts the quotation marks and other signs. :-) Okay. I can send you up to about 15 hebrew fonts if you really want... Just mail me offlist if you do... ;-) Not that it would be of any real use to you other than collecting... :-) Maya From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Sun Dec 31 00:08:52 2000 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Minnesota Girlie) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:08:52 -0000 Subject: H/H shippers, Krum, and other relationship stuff (Was Re: H/H shippers clues) In-Reply-To: <92kv3h+5c2s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ltek+b589@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8145 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > > > > > > I wonder though, if the teenage kids are pairing Herm with Harry > > because Herm is such a great character, so she'd _have_ to be with > > the "hero"? Maybe the teen kids (was it all girls, or did boys feel > > the same?) are thinking that -they'd- go for the "hero" so, that's > > who Herm should be with? (Projecting how they would feel onto > > Herm.) You know, the 'hero' -always- gets 'the girl'... (Geez, did > > that make ~any~ sense?) > > I wanted to get the boy angle myself, so I asked an expert, my 14 year > old son. > ME: "So, you know that kiss at the end of Goblet of Fire? Where > Hermione kisses Harry?" > MICHAEL: Yeah. > ME: Is that significant? > MICHAEl: Mom, that's INCREDIBLY significant. > ME:So, what does it mean? > MICHAEL:(grins) It means Hermione has a secret crush on Harry. >From a teenager's point of view: I think it's significant as well. I agree with all those who say that it could just be a greeting/farewell, but I don't think that Hermione would just up and kiss Harry on the cheek in farewell without doing so to Ron (she didn't, did she?), knowing how jealous and overlooked Ron is and feels. But, (on a kind of related note) I think Krum's "showdown" with Harry is because Krum 'knows' Harry better, having to compete against him in the Triwizard Tournament, and sees how talented he is as a wizard. Hermione has tried to help Harry succeed in the tournament (remember, they keep running into Krum in the library while looking up hexes and things). But... I don't doubt that Hermione would try to help Ron just as much if Ron were in this situation instead of Harry. Also, it has been hitting me over the head lately (re-reading the books) that Ron has a huge crush on Hermione. First, everything she does, he overreacts to. (I know, it sounds kind of lame, but come on, he's fourteen.) And then, before the Yule Ball, first he couldn't accept the fact that someone else had asked Hermione out, then he badgered her constantly about who she was going with, then he was generally bad-tempered at the Ball itself when it came to her, accusing her of passing information on to Viktor Krum. > Hmmm, I wonder if Harry thinks so too? What are you willing to bet that he didn't think twice about it? He's preoccupied with the return of Voldemort. Why would he think that one of his best friends had a crush on him? > Pippin (who still thinks that one day, maybe not today, and maybe not > tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of her life, Hermione belongs with > Ron) I agree... although it seems unlikely, I agree. :) Minnesota Girlie P.S. By the way, hi everyone :) This is my second post here at HP for Grownups, and I definitely do enjoy it here. From chortler at earthlink.net Sun Dec 31 00:11:05 2000 From: chortler at earthlink.net (Dante) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:11:05 -0600 Subject: Intro and questions... Message-ID: <3A4E7999.DDAE40F4@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8146 Hi all, Just joined the group so here's a quick introduction. My name is Dante and I'm 28 and am an elementary school teacher in Omaha, Nebraska. Originally from Olympia, Washington though. The characters I would most like to meet aside from Harry, Ron and Hermione are: Moaning Myrtle, Professor Trelawney who reminds me of a lot of some of the professors I had in college, and Dudley so I could poke him in the stomach. Some big picture questions that I have about the books are ones like, "How does Hogwarts compare/contrast to contemporary English boarding schools?" , "How will the popularity and the marketing of the books and merchandise affect the quality of the future books?" , "How will Harry and his friends mature in the coming books?" Well that's a start for you. Very glad to have found this list. -Dante From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 00:14:40 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:14:40 -0000 Subject: Veritaserum Question Message-ID: <92ltpg+prhi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8147 While chatting with Carole this afternoon, the following technical question came up... Remember Veritaserum (truth potion from GoF)? Say someone is suffering from Memory Charm-induced amnesia so that they have "forgotten" something crucial. If they were given Veritaserum, would they be able to give information about an event that occurred in the Memory Gap? In other words, does Veritaserum give the questioner actual truth (events as they actually occurred) or virtual truth (events as the person remembers). With all the psychobabble floating around in my head, I'm inclined to think that the memories were never really *erased*... perhaps just irretrievably repressed. In this case, Lockheart could get his memory back. OR--maybe once the memory is gone, it's gone forever. If that is the case, we can hang it up for Lockheart's recovery. What do you think? --Ebony From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 31 00:12:02 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:12:02 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please References: <92lque+lcqq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a501c072bf$a11371e0$26c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8148 SV is Re in Swedish(and Norwegian), my OE's fault. There is somewhere to change it to English, I just don't know where!!! All the Dementors stopping happens at the same time because they have the Time Turner. It makes the same time happen twice or maybe more, sort of a time machine. I hope you understand. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kazza mazzoo Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 31 december 2000 00:26 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please hi, First off, on the msg line some say RE, some say SV. What does SV stand for?? Second of all, can anyone explain in PoA how Harry stops the dementors the first time round before he goes back in time with Hermione? First he thought it was his dad, but when he goes back he finds out it was himself, and stops them .. .but how did he manage it the first time. I think I have a bad case of Back To The Future here lol. It's like round robin, without the start! Does anyone know? Oh and a big shout out to Neil! Hi-de-ho neighbour =) Nice to meet you, and great rendition of Olivia Newton-John mate lol. Are you on Yahoo at all? Thanks for your help folks, and sorry if it's a weird one. Kazza eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 00:22:44 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:22:44 -0000 Subject: Intro and questions... In-Reply-To: <3A4E7999.DDAE40F4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <92lu8k+2eik@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8149 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dante wrote: > > Just joined the group so here's a quick introduction. My name is Dante and I'm 28 and am an elementary school teacher in Omaha, Nebraska. Originally from Olympia, Washington though. Welcome, Dante! Nice to see another teacher... As for your questions: 1) "How does Hogwarts compare/contrast to contemporary English boarding schools?" I think John Walton is the resident authority on this... this summer there were some interesting posts about what elements JKR borrowed from schools she'd attended. 2) "How will the popularity and the marketing of the books and merchandise affect the quality of the future books?" As you'll see, many of us around here are merchandise fanatics... we talk about the woes of commercialization, but many of us (myself included) are starting to build collections. 3) "How will Harry and his friends mature in the coming books?" That's the #1 question that interests me as well (I think it's symptomatic of working on a day-to-day basis with kids and teens, don't you?). We discuss various aspects of this a lot. For instance, Jim Flanagan posted a very good character analysis/spec a few days ago... it's called "Characterizations: Rowling vs. Steele". Stay tuned, and welcome again. --Ebony From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 31 00:46:12 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:46:12 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Veritaserum Question Message-ID: <8f.4ea1ace.277fdbd4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8150 In a message dated 12/30/00 7:16:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, ebonyink at hotmail.com writes: > With all the psychobabble floating around in my head, I'm inclined to > think that the memories were never really *erased*... perhaps just > irretrievably repressed. > This would fit the theory that Neville has had his memory modified because he witnessed what happened to his parents. Moody's DADA classes may have brought some of these memories to the surface causing his reaction in class. Also - I know they use the term 'modified' but do they also use the term 'erased' interchangeably with it? -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Dec 31 00:49:49 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:49:49 -0000 Subject: Veritaserum Question In-Reply-To: <92ltpg+prhi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92lvrd+c3qp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8151 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > While chatting with Carole this afternoon, the following technical > question came up... > > Remember Veritaserum (truth potion from GoF)? Say someone is > suffering from Memory Charm-induced amnesia so that they > have "forgotten" something crucial. > > If they were given Veritaserum, would they be able to give > information about an event that occurred in the Memory Gap? In other > words, does Veritaserum give the questioner actual truth (events as > they actually occurred) or virtual truth (events as the person > remembers). I think it has to be virtual truth...otherwise you could ask anybody anything and get the truth ie, "What is the secret of life, the universe and everything?" With all the psychobabble floating around in my head, I'm inclined to > think that the memories were never really *erased*... perhaps just > irretrievably repressed. There *are* ways to break through a powerful memory charm, as Voldie did this to Bertha Jorkins, but they are apparently drastic and cause irreparable damage to the subject. It doesn't sound like Voldie used veritaserum on BJ, though I admit it's a possibility I hadn't thought of before. Pippin > From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Sun Dec 31 00:55:27 2000 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:55:27 +0200 Subject: Mystery at Hogwarts game Message-ID: <004c01c072c4$610ef2e0$e8a8003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8152 >Erm, I don't think that I did a very good job exlaining it, like I >said it's just like clue. Thanks Scott. You explained fine. I have clue, so as I understand from your description it's really quite identical apart from the vocabulary... weapon - spell.... dining room = gret hall, etc....;-) Thanks.... Maya From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 00:52:46 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 30 Dec 2000 16:52:46 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) Message-ID: <20001231005246.5460.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8153 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From amy at wintersmoon.com Sun Dec 31 00:59:50 2000 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:59:50 -0000 Subject: Merchandise - Department 56 Message-ID: <92m0e6+u2jg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8154 I was browsing the archives and this is actually in response to a question back in October (by Scott? I think?) Anyway, I had high hopes that Department 56 would come out with the lighted houses and figures. I have the whole thing planned out in my head...Diagon Alley, Hogsmeade, the Burrows, 4 Privet Lane. I was even trying to figure out where to find blank tombstones so I could make the GoF graveyard and Tom Riddle's tombstone. For those of you who don't know what D56 lighted houses are, imagine your own little Diagon Alley with each shop a different painted ceramic piece. I hope D56 eventually does come out with lighted houses - if they don't they're really missing out on making some money. Anyway, on the D56 website, they do have their new Harry Potter stuff listed. It includes a couple new secret boxes and a couple lighted scenes. The new secret boxes are a little better than the first ones - they're hinged boxes for one. Of course, they don't have pictures for everything yet :-( However the names of the new boxes are: "Under the Invisibility Cloak", "Professor of Potions", "Hermione Granger", "The Mirror Of ERISED", "Harry's Inheirtance", "Golden Snitch In Flight". (the first two have pics up) The lighted scenes...I'm not exactly sure what those are supposed to be. I for one would prefer to have the lighted houses. The two scenes are "Journey to Hogwarts" and "Hogwarts, School of Witchcraft and Wizardy". And of course there are no pictures. D56's website is not the easiest thing to navigate. Here's the link though if you want to check out the few pics they do have. http://www.d56.com/html/newproducts/decnewproducts.asp You're going to have to scroll down the page until you get to the Harry Potter section. This page lists ALL of their new products. Amy From duo at dangerous-minds.com Sun Dec 31 01:25:39 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:25:39 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please In-Reply-To: <92lque+lcqq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8155 >Second of all, can anyone explain in PoA how Harry stops the >dementors >the first time round before he goes back in time with Hermione? >First >he thought it was his dad, but when he goes back he finds out it was >himself, and stops them .. .but how did he manage it the first time. >I think I have a bad case of Back To The Future here lol. It's like >round robin, without the start! Does anyone know? It's one view of looking at time travel, in this case that the observations made in Time are fixed and immutable. Let's try observing the timeline from, for lack of words, Beyond Time. For an observer Beyond Time, that point of Time had two Harrys, one about to experience a Dementor's Kiss, one casting the Patronus Charm. The only confusion comes about when Harry has to live the same segment of time twice. Which is probably why time travel is heavily restricted... it reduces possible timeline sections into fixed, predictable pieces. Nathan From duo at dangerous-minds.com Sun Dec 31 01:25:37 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:25:37 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students In-Reply-To: <025501c07311$1d4b8260$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8156 >I don't really believe it though. How come, in four whole year at Hogwarts, >neither Harry nor anyone else has remarked how small his class is? >And also: >HWMNBM must be an equal opportunity killer, since he apparently thinned out >the girls just as thoroughly as he did the boys, and the future Slytherins >just as mercilessly as the up-and-coming Gryffs. Which probably explains why Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle juniors survived... their dads made sure they weren't on the Avada list. Nathan From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 01:18:00 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 30 Dec 2000 17:18:00 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please Message-ID: <20001231011800.14032.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8157 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 01:24:23 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:24:23 -0600 Subject: H/H shippers clues References: <92lkjp+5iov@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4E8AC7.59FC5607@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8158 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > I know no one will believe me, but at lunchtime on July 10 the first > question I asked over our sandwiches and apples was nothing ship- > related. I believe you -- mainly because I recall that you were not really a H/H shipper at all when you first found all of us on the listserves (hpanonymous & the Yahoo predecessor to this group). I seem to recall that I played some part in convincing you to join the H/H'ers, although I think your students were as big an influence as anything else perhaps. > "But Ron's going to get really jealous of Harry in the next few > books. Harry already has everything, and now Hermione likes him too." I'm with Jeff -- seems a likely scenario to me. > "Well, that friendship is doomed, for sure," some of the others > aid. "It's like a chain... each one likes someone else. If Hermione > doesn't like Ron, and he finds out about her crush on Harry... boy, > there's going to be some fireworks. He'd betray Harry because of it, > I know he will." Maybe my mind just works on a 14-yr old level but .... that's my feeling too. > "Where in the world are you getting this from?" I said, extremely > skeptical. "I'm your teacher, and I don't see all this crush stuff. > Why do you think that Hermione sees Harry as anything other than her > friend?" > > I remember Jeff telling me verbatim, "Because she kissed him." All > around the table, there were nods. I recall smiling when I read that line & thinking "Uh, huh. She *does* like him." Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 01:35:36 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:35:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students References: <92ji0v+qq1i@eGroups.com> <011201c072c5$3c613060$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A4E51FD.679E194F@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A4E8D68.699E1D9F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8159 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Aberforth's Goat wrote: > > > Hmmmm. What if HWMNBM heard about Trewlany's first prediction and > pulled a king Herod on Harry's generation of baby wizards? Ron and the > other full-blooded wizards in his age group are the survivors. Thus, > Harry's year is about a forth the size of all the other years. And > presumably Harry hasn't noticed yet ... So .... is this theory just that it was only Harry's year that was marked for rampaging murder of baby boys (and girls??)? Are you suggesting that Trelawney's first prediction was merely that a child (of either gender) born in 1980 would one day be Voldemort's downfall, and therefore, he was out to kill all the children born that year? Voldemort had apparently been powerful for 10 yrs prior to Harry's birth ("precious little to celebrate in 11 years"). Intriguing theory, although one wonders how some of the other families with babies born that year (Weasleys, Finnegan, Brown, etc.) survived if they hadn't done a Fidelius charm themselves? I would think that the prediction was more specific and that Harry in particular was Voldie's target, although this explanation helps to explain why Harry's class appears to be so small (given that there are supposed to be 1000 students at Hogwarts). > Oh, excellent thought! A purpose, albeit twisted, behind the great > numbers of killings. Has anyone in the books ever said *why* Voldemort > was murdering? It sounded like he kind of was rampaging, and usually > there's a reason..... > > So Harry's class is small, perhaps unusually so, and the reason is > that some of the population their age was murdered. I wonder, did the > Muggles that Voldemort killed have past wizarding progeny? So .... under this theory, are there still roughly 1000 students at Hogwarts -- but only 40 or so make up the students for Harry's year (where there should be 142 or so)? I still say JKR screwed up with the off-the-cuff comment about 1000 students. BTW Amanda -- thanks for the spelling correction on stationery/stationary. I .... ahem .... "usually" don't make those sorts of errors. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 01:39:45 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 30 Dec 2000 17:39:45 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Teenagers, sex and culture Message-ID: <20001231013945.9445.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8160 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 01:39:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:39:10 -0600 Subject: Religious Objections to HP References: <200012300451.eBU4puU13945@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A4E8E3E.9DE1801C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8161 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > I suppose this may be one of those obscure things that only librarians > read, but there was a very eloquent article recently in Horn Book > Magazine by Kimbra Wilder Gish about the religious objections to HP. > (Of course, it still didn't explain why some people feel they have the > right to decide what other people's children can and cannot read, but > that's another issue.) Anyway, if you think it would be helpful I > would be happy to fax you a copy (they don't have it on their website, > unfortunately) Thanks Kathy! If you'd rather not incur long-distance fax charges, just tell me what issue it's in. The Houston Public Library gets Horn Book magazine, and I have reason to go there for my research fairly frequently. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Malabud at excite.com Sun Dec 31 02:09:19 2000 From: Malabud at excite.com (Malabud) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:09:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Philippines Book Covers Message-ID: <27305318.978228560926.JavaMail.imail@blizzard.excite.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8162 I'm just curious, has anyone ever seen a book cover for the Philippines, or do they simply use the American or British version there? I checked the cover gallery at http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/covergallery.htm and I didn't see any for the Philippines. Also, does anyone know if any of the HP books are translated into Tagalog or Cebuano or some other major Filipino dialect? (I was secretly hoping for Waray-Waray, but I know that's never going to happen!) If I can recall my rusty Cebuano, I think it would be "Si Harry Potter ug ang Bato nga Filosopo/Salamangkiro" in that language. I kind of doubt they'd translate it into Cebuano, but it'd be cool to see it in Tagalog, at the very least. Please help me out here, O ye resident Filipinos on the list! Malabud (Psst...Can you guess where my handle comes from?) _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 02:46:54 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:46:54 -0000 Subject: Question about the Ministry of Magic In-Reply-To: <92ki9q+g795@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92m6mu+dqeb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8163 CoS ch.2 (p.21 of the US hardcover); "....Decree for the Reasonable Restriction of Underage Sorcery, 1875,...." So it was around when Lily was a kid. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > In GoF Barty Crouch mentions how his Grandfather had a flying carpet - > before they were made illegal. Also in CoS Mrs. Weasley mentions > that Arthur wrote the protection of muggle artifacts laws himself. I > don't think we're ever told how long Arthur has worked there but the > laws can only have existed for that length of time. It's quite > possible that a new swathe of muggle protection laws came in all at > once, to allow Lilly Evans practising magic underage before that, in > the same way the European Commission introduced a whole load of new > standards and laws to Britain when we joined up (I think JKR is > satirising this to some extent with alot of this stuff, particularly > Percy's cauldron thickness in GoF). > > > > Dai > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" > wrote: > > > > > > >Has there been any discussion about how long the Ministry of Magic > > >has been in place? Or Mr. Weasley's department? (Misuse of Muggle > > >Artifacts) In the first chapter(?) of PS/SS when Hagrid flys in on > > >Sirius's motercycle, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to > > >Dumbledore or McGonagall. Which means that a)that didn't really > care > > >that the motorcycle was illegal, b)the Department for the misuse of > > >muggle artifacts didn't exist, or c) Sirius was exempt from the > rules > > >that the rest of the witches and warlocks had to abide by. I think > > >I'm personally going for b. I was just curious if anything like > this > > >had been addressed on the list before. > > > > > >Amy > > > > > > > > > I actually had a question that is quite similar... How long has the > Decree > > for underage wizardry been along? In SS Petunia Dursley says that > Lilly > > always used to come home and turn teacups into frogs, or something > to that > > effect; could something have happened in recent years to warrent > these > > changes? > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sun Dec 31 02:58:40 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:58:40 +0100 (CET) Subject: Sundry topics (aka The Neverending Email) Message-ID: <20001231025840.23265.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8164 This did get long, didn't it? TOC: 1. AGES/QUESTION 2. CONNOISEUR HIPPOGRIFFS 3. MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER 4. PROFESSOR DUMBLEDORE'S MAP OF THE LONDON UNDERGROUND 5. COVER ART 6. ARE ALL SLYTHERINS ROTTEN TO THE BONE? 7. MINISTRY OF MAGIC AND MISUSE OF MUGGLE ARTEFACTS LAWS 8. POSSIBLY ANNOYING QUESTION 9. ROBES IN THE BOOKS AND IN THE MOVIE 10. STUDENT NUMBERS/WIZARD NUMBERS 11. TEACHER QUESTIONS 12. MODYFYING MY OPINION OF THE NORWEGIAN TRANSLATION OF THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN I am on digest, so I am answering (and possibly starting) several threads in one big lump (some of these things may have been said before, without having reached me yet). Pardon any ytPnIg rerOrs - I believe I caught most, but you just never know... Please ask if some things are not clear - it is 3:40 AM here (and raining, I believe - earlier today it was down to -10 degrees centigrade, with -18 just a few miles away). 1. AGES/QUESTION Some time ago, JKR answered about the ages of different teachers, referring to McGonagall, I believe, as being 'a springly 70' years old. Did she also state the age of Professor Snape, and could somebody please restate it if she did? 2. CONNOISEUR HIPPOGRIFFS Just a funny detail from 'PoA Chapter Fourteen - Snape's Grudge': "'Ah, well, people can be a bit stupid abou' their pets,' said Hagrid wisely. Behind him, Buckbeak spat a few ferret bones onto Hagrid's pillow." That scene takes on a whole new meaning after having read the GoF... ;-) 3. MUNDUNGUS FLETCHER For those of you that know of the British (BBC, possibly ITV) television series Heartbeat, Mundungus Fletcher makes me think of a cross-product between Claude Jeremiah Greengrass and Sgt. Blaketon. If he was the one raided by the ministry, he is probably a former auror, who served for a long time, paying his taxes (if wizards have do pay taxes, that is), and is now retired, living at home, having fun tinkering with his muggle objects. He is probably more than just a bit mad with these young aspiring hotheads from the ministry who are trying tot ake the fun out of life of old servicemen (it would be a bit like a local police-unit visiting retired sergeant-major of the North Staffordshire Regt, trying to confiscate his price-collection of side-arms collected through 45 years of service). 4. PROFESSOR DUMBLEDORE'S MAP OF THE LONDON UNDERGROUND Just to pick a very small nit (I do not even recall whose it was) - the scar on Professor Dumbledore's knee is of the London *Underground* (i.e. subway), not of London itself. (Do you think it updates itself when they open new lines or close old ones? And does it have the names of the stations?) 5. COVER ART I agree with the assessment of the three first US Covers. Have you noticed, though, that on the UK edition of PS, Harry's hair appears to be exceptionally tidy? 6. ARE ALL SLYTHERINS ROTTEN TO THE BONE? I do not believe so - in 'PoA Chapter Six - Talons and Tea Leaves', *all* of the students except Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle applauded, and then cheered, when Harry first was allowed to pat Buckbeak's beak, and then was allowed to fly him. Just something I noted. 7. MINISTRY OF MAGIC AND MISUSE OF MUGGLE ARTEFACTS LAWS I believe the reason flying cars and motorcycles are not allowed is because the flying may be accidentally activated by a muggle who pushed the wrong button by accident. I think flying brromsticks are not prohibited because (a) they are necessary for the wizarding world in Britain; and (b) I believe it takes some effort, both with magic and willpower, to get it off the ground. Thus, while muggle kids might be playing witches on a stray flying broomstick, the chances that they take to the skies is rather small. The restriction on flying carpets may just be a move to protect domestic broom-industry, or perhaps carpets are more responsive than brooms (they are family-vehicles, after all), and thus more easily will rise to the skies even if it is just occupied some muggle kids who have read Arabian Nights. 8. POSSIBLY ANNOYING QUESTION Have anybody managed to confirm or deny an apparently steafast rumour about Ron Weasley's name being a pun at the expense a certain Running Weasel and his yellow rat? I searched the messages of both this list and the archive-list, but found nothing conclusive. I do not place too much belief in the rumour (I believe it an Internet-myth, to be frank), mostly because nobody manage to say of which 'third dynasty' he was a member. It is not important, but it has been bugging me. 9. ROBES IN THE BOOKS AND IN THE MOVIE To rehack this old battered subject - I still do not agree with the pictures I have seen from the movie-sets, showing the hogwarts uniform as open robes, with dark trousers, shirt, tie and a house-specific knitted V-neck sweater. It simply looks too much like muggle school-uniforms to me. Also, there are points in the text that I find supportive of my view (I have just started rereading the series, to refresh my knowledge of Canon, as I have read rather a lot of fanfiction the last few months - don't want to get things mixed up). When Harry buys his first robes, at Madam Malkin's, she "slipped a long robe over his head" (PS Chapter Five - diagon Alley), and when Snape had been bitten by Fluffy, he had to hoist his robes up to show the bite to Filch (PS Chapter Eleven - Quidditch). In CoS, we are told that Hermiones had her robes pulled up over her face when she came out of her cubicle in Moaning Myrtle's bathrooms, with her face full of fur (CoS Chapter Twelve - The Polyjuice Potion). There is also no place that I can think of where a distinction is made between open and closed robes. Also, in PS, Harry is wearing jeans when arriving at Hogwarts, and I doubt jeans would be an accepted part of a uniform involving shirt and tie, when the trousers are visible. When younger wizarding-people wear trousers, jeans and sweater, I take that to be more a light case of youthful rebellion against the ways of the elders, in much the same way that the Beatles caused the hair of teenagers around the world to grow longer in the sixties. It may also be a sign of fascination with a muggle culture where the accepted standard of clothing finally is almost as easy to put on as robes are. The older generations seem to prefer robes, exercising some of the same standards as the scots do with kilts. It also makes sense to me that the school uniform is old-fashioned compared to the taste of the younger generations, as that does seem to be the standard in muggle schools in Britain and Australia, at least (I *do* watch A Country Practise and Home And Away occasionally!). 10. STUDENT NUMBERS/WIZARD NUMBERS The number of English wizard-students also determines the total population of wizards in Britain. I did some rough calculations on this, a month or two back, based on the assumption that the average wizard lives twice as long as the average muggle (based on JKR's age-statement - Dumbledore is 150). With that assumption, I concluded that the number of wizards in britain and Ireland is roughly 20 (twenty) times the number of students. 300-400 students would mean a British/Irish population of 6000-8000 wizards all ages. I think the spreadsheet is in the files section. For this reason alone I support a relatively high number of students at Hogwarts, because the wizarding-population needs to be of a certain size. The British Wizarding population is able to support a relatively large Ministry of Magic, with several departments under junior ministers, a large commercial district (Diagon Alley), a smaller commercial district (Hogsmeade - mainly supported by students, I admit) and a sizeable district for less honourable commercial activities (Knocturn Alley). Mr. Ollivander has 'thousands of narrow boxes', and I doubt that the majority of these are empty, and Gringotts has about a hundred goblins at work (PS Chapter Five - Diagon Alley), which indicates quite a high level of activity. There is also an influential daily newspaper, which does sound like it is based in Britain, and there is Witch Weekly (probably based in Britain, but maybe elsewhere), and at least one professional publication (Transfiguration Today). There has to be people enough to man all these industries and businesses, and look after children and the household (which I get the impression may be something of a norm still in wizarding society). Therefore I think that 300-400 students is a too low number, as the population of wizards this would indicate only barely would be able to support the level of activity we see. Also, remember that Hogwarts is *large* - Professor Flitwick's office is located on the seventh floor, and this is described as being one of the "...upper floors of the castle", not just a single tower (Both informations from 'PoA Chapter Twenty-one - Hermione's Secret'). It is not even specified as being the top floor. When at university, I went to a faculty where the buildings housed 500 students, where half had offices, relatively large staff, several auditoriums, a large research-cenbtre with a large staff, a large lab-building containing two large marine diesel-engines running of methane, a large hall for testing bending- and breaking-strength of full-size hullgirders, and several other labs, a large cafeteria, library, etc. The building had a total of three floors, with a footprint that was not particularly large. (Of course it grew larger if you included the 280m (919 ft) tow-tank and the 80mx60mx10m (262ftx197ftx33ft) wave-tank, but still it is not too large, and the footprint of the building still does not grow any larger than what I imagine must be the footprint of Hogwarts) The statement about 200 Slytherin supporters at a quidditch match was not from CoS - it was from 'PoA Chapter Fifteen - The Quidditch Final', where it also says that three quarters of the crowd were supporting Gryffindor. I believe the majority of these came from the students and staff at Hogwarts, as I cannot remember ever reading about spectators coming from other places than the school. The only reference to approaching spectators in that chapter refers to those coming from the inside of the castle (through the front doors). As far as tablespace goes, on the Royal Navy torpedo-boat Destroyers of the 'River'-class allowed 20 inches of seating-space per rating, and 18 inches of hammock-space (these were conditions described as palatial by the crew, so you can imagine what conditions were like in older classes of TBDs). Kids are small, particularly at age eleven (with a possible exception for Dudley Dursley) - they will manage. According to 'PS Chapter Seven - The Sorting Hat' there are four long tables for the students, and another long table at the top of the Great Hall, for the teachers. I think what Rowling has done to a degree basically equals what is known in model railroading as 'selective compression'. The concept is that you show enough of the scene so that it is recoganisable to the viewer/reader, but you do not show it all, as that would take to much space. 11. TEACHER QUESTIONS Am I correct in assuming that so far the only classes that have been explicitly stated as being with two houses, are those that involve a head of house teaching a class from his/her own house? No, I am not, I find 30 minutes after having typed this question - flying lessons and Care of Magical Creatures. Hagrid does have other duties beyond teaching though, and Flying doesn't seem to last all year. Is it also plausible that a teacher does not teach all the forms (grades in US English) - so that Professor McGonagall for instance only teaches every second form and those that have transfiguration and related subjects as electives, with another teacher (or two) tackling the rest of the transfiguration-classes? If she didn't, regardless of the number of students, she would either not be teaching much transfiguration per week, or she would be in desperate need of a time-turner to manage all classes. Even with eight periods per day, she wouldn't have enough time, if all classes of compulsory subjects were taught only with one or two houses - assuming two houses per class all seven years, four 45 or 50 minute classes per class give 56 periods of teaching per week. She would in fact need 12 periods per day, which assuming 6 double periods of 90 minutes per day, with four 10 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch-break means that the schooldays is 10hrs and 10 min long, lasting from 8:30 AM till 6:20 PM. The students wouldn't last half a year - much less the teachers. 12. MODYFYING MY OPINION OF THE NORWEGIAN TRANSLATION OF THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN I have previously stated a perhaps rather harsh opinion of the Norwegian translation of PoA. It was an opinion given before having read through the entirety of the translation. I have warmed a bit to the translation, but i still think it makes Hagrid look a bit like a blathering idiot. For a children's book, I think the translator has done a good job, but I believe I will stick with the UK editions all the same. One thing that annoys me, is that Norway did not have its own cover-art done (the American cover-art is used) - particularly annoying when one can see how well the Danish covers turned out. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 03:18:11 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:18:11 -0000 Subject: Sundry topics (Snape/covers/robes) In-Reply-To: <20001231025840.23265.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92m8hj+72p5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8165 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > This did get long, didn't it? Yes ~:) Did she also state the age of > Professor Snape, and could somebody please restate it if she did? > Other than Snape being a contemporary of MWPP, no. What amazes me is that when I first read SS, I pictured Hagrid and McG in their 40s, and Snape in his mid/late 50s. Wrong on all counts! > 5. COVER ART > I agree with the assessment of the three first US Covers. Have you noticed, though, that > on the UK edition of PS, Harry's hair appears to be exceptionally tidy? What gets me about this one is, if he's coming off the train at the end of the year, why does he look so surprised/confused? If, on the other hand, he's just on his way in September, why does he have a scarf in Gryffindor colors? > > 9. ROBES IN THE BOOKS AND IN THE MOVIE > To rehack this old battered subject - I still do not agree with the pictures I have seen > from the movie-sets, showing the hogwarts uniform as open robes, with dark trousers, > shirt, tie and a house-specific knitted V-neck sweater. It simply looks too much like > muggle school-uniforms to me. I always pictured Harry wearing shorts and kneesocks under his (open) robes- too many people who've omly ever seen him fully clothed seem to know about his knobby knees for them *not* to be on plain view. From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 31 03:09:14 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:09:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <200012310406.eBV46dU13149@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8166 >I've been trying all vacation to comb the books and find evidence of >Hermione's reciprocation of Ron's interest... I needed an "I knew I >liked you, Ron, when..." scenario. I'm finding I'm making up stuff. Okay, I don't understand how people can say that there is no evidence that Hermione likes Ron back. What about the several times in GoF when Hermione gets all annoyed at the attention Ron is paying to Fleur? I know I know, we've been through this before, I know the time after the 2nd task could be interpreted as H/H or H/R because Fleur kisses both Harry and Ron, but, I will say it again: When they are leaving Hogwarts at the end of GoF, Fleur "smiled at [Ron]; Hermione scowled" (GoF, UK ediiton, p.628). That's a SEMICOLON people; these things are related. And I still maintain that the kiss two pages later is a)Hermione being supportive of one of her best friends who has been through hell and b) a subtle attempt at getting back at Ron for the incident with Fleur. Although seriously I think putting any romantic spin on "the kiss" takes away from the story at this point. To me, the ending scene was a beautiful reiteration of the closeness of the 3 friends and how Harry can make it because of his friends support. That, more than my H/R leaning, is the reason why the big hooha about the kiss bugs me. It's like it cheapens the whole thing somehow. (And, as B. Bennett's "The Other Kiss" shows, we certainly don't know what happened after Harry went through that barrier, do we?). Anyway, rant over (for now) Kathy From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 31 03:22:40 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:22:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Religious Objections to HP Message-ID: <200012310420.eBV4KGU14638@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8167 >Thanks Kathy! If you'd rather not incur long-distance fax charges, just >tell me what issue it's in. The Houston Public Library gets Horn Book >magazine, and I have reason to go there for my research fairly >frequently. > >Penny Penny: It's in the May/June 2000 issue. Let me know if you have trouble getting hold of it, and I'll fax it to you. Kathy From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 04:30:30 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 04:30:30 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 In-Reply-To: <92il0d+jrfh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92mcp6+107ta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8168 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Prof. Binns has not been seen in her infirmary since his > acquisition of post-biological status. I LOL at the whole thing (you are often a very funny writer), but this was the BEST PHRASE. From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 31 03:36:07 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:36:07 -0500 Subject: Random Inconsistencies Message-ID: <200012310433.eBV4XoU16168@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8169 Okay, I have been listening to the books on the books on CD that my wonderful husband got me for Christmas, and I have noticed 2 little things in the first book that bugged me. 1) This has probably been mentioned before, but in light of the recent discussion about Lily and the Decree for the Restiction of Underage Wizardry, I'll say it anyway. When Hermione first meets Ron and Harry on the train, she says "I've tried a few simple spells just for practice and it's all worked for me." How come she didn't get in trouble? And how was Hermione Granger breaking the rules in the first place? At first I thought maybe she wouldn't know about the Decree, but come on, this is Hermione--she'd have read about it. 2) Another little one I caught today: Right before Harry discovers the Mirror of Erised, he comes across a suit of armor. "There was a suit of armor near the kistchens, he knew, but he must be five floors above there." (SS, p. 206) But they don't find out where the kitchens are until GoF, right? I know, I know, splitting hairs, but who else can I tell this stuff to? Kathy From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 31 03:46:48 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:46:48 -0500 Subject: Fanfic set in books Message-ID: <200012310444.eBV4iZU17108@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8170 Well, I am just talkative tonight I guess, but I have a question for all the fanfic experts here: I have noticed a small but growing number of fanfics that take place during the times of the books and show what might have been happening "offstage". Is there a term for these kind of fics? As an R/H shipper (but mostly as someone who just likes both Ron and Hermione better than Harry), I really enjoy these, because they often feature Ron and/or Hermione, and because I also like to speculate about what's going on offstage. When I started writing this, I was all ready to reel off a list of some that I had read, but of course now I am blanking! I guess "The Other Kiss" counts, even though it's technically right after GoF, and the only other one that comes to mind right away is "Masquerade", which despite being H/H is very good. (; Can anyone recommend any other good fanfics that fall into this category? (Or give me a name for them?) Kathy P.S. OK, one more thing and then I'll shut up. I had forgotten how many favorite lines I had from the first book. Today I came across a random favorite: George on Weasley sweaters: "Come on, get it on, they're lovely and warm." Actually I guess it's not all that funny, maybe it's just Jim Dale's reading of that line that cracks me up. He completely captures George Weasley in that line. From duo at dangerous-minds.com Sun Dec 31 05:05:45 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:05:45 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Philippines Book Covers In-Reply-To: <27305318.978228560926.JavaMail.imail@blizzard.excite.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8171 > >I'm just curious, has anyone ever seen a book cover for the Philippines, or >do they simply use the American or British version there? I checked the >cover gallery at http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/covergallery.htm and I >didn't see any for the Philippines. Hehe. We wish. I'm pretty certain Manila has the American edition covers. At least all the National Bookstores and PowerBooks outlets I've seen. >Also, does anyone know if any of the HP books are translated into >Tagalog or >Cebuano or some other major Filipino dialect? (I was secretly hoping for >Waray-Waray, but I know that's never going to happen!) If I can recall my >rusty Cebuano, I think it would be "Si Harry Potter ug ang Bato nga >Filosopo/Salamangkiro" in that language. I kind of doubt they'd >translate it >into Cebuano, but it'd be cool to see it in Tagalog, at the very least. >Please help me out here, O ye resident Filipinos on the list! I doubt (given the current state of the nation and economy) that there will ever be a Philippine edition and translation. A fanwork, probably, but that's treading on dangerously explosive eggs. OTOH, given the mania of dubbing Japanese anime and American animation into the vernacular, it might fly. The bottom line is money, of course. Nathan From duo at dangerous-minds.com Sun Dec 31 05:09:31 2000 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:09:31 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 In-Reply-To: <92mcp6+107ta@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8172 >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" >wrote: >> Prof. Binns has not been seen in her infirmary since his >> acquisition of post-biological status. > >I LOL at the whole thing (you are often a very funny writer), but >this was the BEST PHRASE. On this note, I wonder who was taking the minutes down? Definitely not Snape, from what I gather. Nathan From zsenya at yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 05:02:47 2000 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:02:47 -0000 Subject: Little announcement Message-ID: <92meln+8n0k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8173 Er, I hope this is okay to post, but I wanted to make a little announcement about a website that I have been working on with my friend Arabella. Perhaps I should add a warning - it is devoted to R/H-dom, so all three or four of you will be very interested...Here is the official wording, as posted on fanfiction.net Fanfic has become such fun for me that I've decided to branch out. Arabella (another author here - go HQoW!) and I have decided to become the Headmistresses of our own HP website! We now invite you to visit http://www.sugarquill.com, a site for fanfiction writers and like-minded Potterites, where you are welcome to submit your stories for beta-reading, and also to post your opinions for discussion on our boards! [Note for HP for Grownups - the main motivation for this site, we have to admit, is to have a shrine to Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny fan fiction, as well as drooling over Sirius and Lupin - we just wanted to gather what we could find that supported our theories in one place. It's been a great deal of fun to work on and we are really enjoying it] Please be advised: The Sugar Quill DOES NOT OFFICIALLY OPEN UNTIL JANUARY THE 5th, 2001. It's still a bit rough! Arabella and I (and the other dear Professors at Sugar Quill) are currently on our merry holidays and will be quite unable to fulfill our headmistressly duties until that time In the meantime, please come and browse and submit stories to us and join in the fray of discussion - just don't expect responses to your stories until AFTER JANUARY THE 5th! Thanks again, and see you at The Sugar Quill! ~Zsenya From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 05:05:43 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:05:43 -0000 Subject: Fanfic set in books In-Reply-To: <200012310444.eBV4iZU17108@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <92mer7+h1dr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8174 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > I have noticed a small but growing number of fanfics that take place during the times of the books and show what might have been happening "offstage". Is there a term for these kind of fics? I've seen them called "alternate --- year" fics, Kathy. I don't know if there's a term for them. > As an R/H shipper (but mostly as someone who just likes both Ron and Hermione better than Harry), I really enjoy these, because they often feature Ron and/or Hermione, and because I also like to speculate about what's going on offstage. When I started writing this, I was all ready to reel off a list of some that I had read, but of course now I am blanking! I guess "The Other Kiss" counts, even though it's technically right after GoF, and the only other > one that comes to mind right away is "Masquerade", which despite being H/H is very good. Both of those stories are on my ff.net favorites page... even with my ship preference and being unsympathetic to Ron, I really think B Bennett's "The Other Kiss" is very plausible and good. Masquerade is also on the page. Check out "Fallen Grace"... she's young but a good writer. She's also R/H. So is Zsenya... she's a member of this list. During this vacation I've read and reviewed all of her fics. I love what she's done with Ron. The fic occurs during the summer after GoF when Ron goes to visit Hermione. Mature, interesting writing... cute storyline... that should keep you busy for a while. Among the newest adolescent and teen writers at ff.net, I think that the better ones are R/H... the majority H/H during canon fics I've read are for the most part pretty badly written. (Speaking of which, Kathy, I was surprised to find that you're strongly R/H... I'll always be grateful to you for posting about "Yours and Yours and Yours" by wotan to the PoU list.) --Ebony From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 05:34:48 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:34:48 -0000 Subject: Another Anti-HP Site (yawn) In-Reply-To: <001a01c07202$d1a7a5a0$dac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <92mgho+pegp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8175 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Generally, one finds that only barbarians exult in their > ignorance. It's one thing for a Modern (or Postmodern) to use the word 'barbarian', but another for a Classical (Roman, or still more so Greek) to use it. If you had said 'philistine', I would have cut you and some slack and assumed that you know that that the Greek-speakers who introduced hearths to the east-by-south-eart coast of the Mediterranean died out some 2800 years ago... From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Dec 31 05:41:26 2000 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:41:26 +1100 Subject: Classes References: <00d501c0715d$39fdb780$3c3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <008a01c072ec$526939d0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8176 A mention of british sex-ed classes reminds me of a certain scene in The Meaning of Life. Simon. > I'm not sure if there is something specific on the curriculum these days: there really ought to be. In my day (we're going back some years now), at primary level - about age 8 - we had a "meet a real live baby" session, which was meant to focus discussion on matters sexual. As it happened, I'd already met the baby and its mother, since they were my own brother and Mummy. This didn't stop me piping up with the question: "Can someone be a man and a woman at the same time?" to which the teacher replied: "Yes, but it's very rare." At secondary level, it was a combination of drawing the gonads of gentlemen and ladies in Biology lessons and discussing human sexuality with a 'trendy singing vicar' in Divinity (religious instruction). Behind the bike sheds was certainly the best place to learn about sex and drugs and rock'n'roll. From vderark at bccs.org Sun Dec 31 05:44:12 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:44:12 -0000 Subject: flying motorcycles and other magic stuff In-Reply-To: <92m6mu+dqeb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92mh3c+jk2l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8177 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > CoS ch.2 (p.21 of the US hardcover); "....Decree for the Reasonable > Restriction of Underage Sorcery, 1875,...." > So it was around when Lily was a kid. I get the impression that Harry is being watched a LOT more closely than any of the other kids. For the rest, it's more of an empty threat, since no one really does more than maybe a spot check and their parents do the enforcing. Look at the Weasley twins, who spend all their free time dabbling in magic. They break that law all the time. But in Harry's case, it's enforced big time because otherwise he may draw the attention of Voldemort et al. He's being monitored in various ways constantly. > > > >Sirius's motercycle, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to > > > >Dumbledore or McGonagall. Which means that a)that didn't really > > care > > > >that the motorcycle was illegal, b)the Department for the misuse > of > > > >muggle artifacts didn't exist, or c) Sirius was exempt from the > > rules My opinion is that Sirius's motorcycle is not an enchanted Muggle motorcycle at all. It's a magical item that borrows some of its form from the Muggle version. We see this elsewhere in the Wizarding World: the Wizarding Wireless, for example, which looks like a radio but obviously doesn't work using radio waves or electronics, since they're incompatible with magic. It probably works with something similar to fire talking, but it's made to look like a radio because they've heard of them or seen them and borrowed the concept of a box that shares information and entertainment with a lot of folks at once. The Knight Bus is another example of this phenomenon in the Wizarding World. Sure, it's a bus in concept and intent, but it doesn't work anything like a normal bus. It's sort of a Magic-based equivelent. It even seems to travel to destinations in alphabetical rather than geographical order. This, by the way, mirrors the evident power of words for magic, such as an easy form of transfiguration being the changing of a guinea fowl into a guinea pig. The names make it easier to do, since they're similar. Changing the guinea pig into a hamster would be harder, presumably, while changing a hamster into a hammer would be a piece of cake. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Sun Dec 31 05:57:12 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:57:12 -0000 Subject: Random Inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <200012310433.eBV4XoU16168@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <92mhro+bsrh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8178 > 2) Another little one I caught today: Right before Harry discovers the Mirror > of Erised, he comes across a suit of armor. "There was a suit of armor near > the kistchens, he knew, but he must be five floors above there." (SS, p. 206) > But they don't find out where the kitchens are until GoF, right? I've been mulling this one over myself. I think JKR can get away with it because GF says that they don't know how to GET INTO the kitchens, not that they have no idea whatsoever where they are. They probably knew or could assume that the kitchens were "down that corridor somewhere," since it's a door that's in plain sight, right there in the entrance hall, opposite of the door that leads to the dungeons. Not only that, it's the door that leads to the Hufflepuff common room, so kids do go that way all the time. They could tell where the smells of cooking were coming from. They knew it must be down that corridor somewhere, and there was a suit of armor down there, but no one was quite sure where the entrance itself was. Except Fred and George, of course. Funny Harry didn't spot the kitchens on the Marauder's Map, though. A room that large? You'd think he'd have noticed it at some point. Hmmm... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 31 06:17:19 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:17:19 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please In-Reply-To: References: <92lque+lcqq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001230221044.00be4d20@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8179 At 09:25 AM 12/31/00 +0800, Nathan wrote: >For an observer Beyond Time, that point of >Time had two Harrys, one about to experience a Dementor's Kiss, one casting >the Patronus Charm. This seems the best theory. Harry must have seen the "ghost" of a parallel universe in which he conjures the Patronus which resolved itself when he actually did it. One would probably have to read a good book on quantum/parallel universe theory like one of Michio Kaku's books to understand it thoroughly. -- Dave From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 06:35:02 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 06:35:02 -0000 Subject: Sundry topics (aka The Neverending Email) In-Reply-To: <20001231025840.23265.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92mk2m+mj4o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8180 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > This did get long, didn't it? But remained fascinating. I am grateful for your support of my opinions about 1) Robes and 2) Number of Hogwarts Student/ Wizarding Population. Last night I was looking at a catalog of cross-stitch and needlepoint patterns and there were several views of Mad Ludwig's Neuschwanstein. Comparing the views one to another, about the time that I decided that there seem to be seven floors in the main building, I realised that Tim is right that Hogwarts looks like Neuschwanstein. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 06:44:42 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 06:44:42 -0000 Subject: Splitting Hairs In-Reply-To: <92gk0d+tstj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92mkkq+107bi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8181 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > what was Dumbledore's role in Flamel's alchemy research? According > to my admittedly muggle calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, > then Flamel was already 524 when he was born, which seems to > indicate (unless wizard life expectancies are even longer than I > thought) that he must already have been tippling a certain elixer. > So what would there be left for Dumbledore to do? I was under the impression that the work that Dumbledore did with 'his partner, Nicolas Flamel', was discovering the twelve uses of dragon's blood. Return question: how many of those twelve uses were already known BEFORE F & D's publication? From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 06:49:16 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 06:49:16 -0000 Subject: other two schools (was: Number of students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92mktc+sr90@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8182 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > If the other two schools are at Hogwarts for the Triwizard > Tournament, then where are they holding classes. >From the other two schools, the headmasters and a small group of students (all aged 17 or above) came to Hogwarts. All the sther teachers and students were left behind at the schools. So my question was, how do Durmstrang and Beauxbatons get along without their headmasters for a year? As for the visiting students getting their classes, it appears that each little group's headmaster is teaching all the classes (so they are missing out on the specialized expertise of the regular teachers), in their vehicle in which they also sleep. Personally, I think it would better achieve the goal of young witches and wizards making friends with foreigners if the visitors joined the Hogwarts classes in their subjects. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 06:55:18 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 06:55:18 -0000 Subject: Runes (was:B owler/Classes/Ford Anglia In-Reply-To: <00d501c0715d$39fdb780$3c3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <92ml8m+5mnk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8183 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > I thought Runes were stones marked with glyphs, that were used for > divining, rather like Tarot Cards? Runestones (runeSTONEs) are stones (antler, bone, and wood -- formerly living materials -- are supposed to be more authentic) marked with glyphs taht are used for divining. RUNEs are the glyphs on the stones, but they were an alphabet used for writing Norse languages before they were written on stones. Archaeologists find not-particularly-magical inscriptions written in runes, such as the name on a grave marker. Authentic magical use of runes was much more casting spells by carving runes onto rune wands and then reddening them with blood, rather than divination. IIRC, scrying in bowls of blood was a form of divination belonging to Odin, while dressing in cat-fur garments and going into shamanic trance (called seidhr or 'platform magic') was a form of divination belonging to Freya.i From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 07:07:34 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 07:07:34 -0000 Subject: Marcus Flint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92mlvm+lttp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8184 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > I would think that if you failed a level, they wouldn't be keen on > your continuing with things. As IIRC Neil already mentioned, the fans decided that Flint had failed too many classes and had to repeat one year BEFORE JKR said on in an on-line chat. Muggle schools don't let people with students with sufficiently bad grades have extra-curricular activities (unless they are REALLY GOOD athletes, important for the team to win), but I expect that Dumbledore believes that a student should be allowed to do the one thing he's good at. From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 31 06:09:35 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:09:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fanfic set in books Message-ID: <200012310708.eBV78PU05738@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8185 >Check out "Fallen Grace"... she's young but a good writer. She's >also R/H. So is Zsenya... she's a member of this list. During this >vacation I've read and reviewed all of her fics. I love what she's >done with Ron. The fic occurs during the summer after GoF when Ron >goes to visit Hermione. Mature, interesting writing... cute >storyline... that should keep you busy for a while. Hmm, I'll have to check out "Fallen Grace". I did actually read "A Muggle Summer" and enjoyd it immensely. >(Speaking of which, >Kathy, I was surprised to find that you're strongly R/H... I'll >always be grateful to you for posting about "Yours and Yours and >Yours" by wotan to the PoU list.) > >--Ebony Well, just because I think is H/H is inherently *wrong* (smirks in Penny's direction) doesn't mean I can't appreciate it. Actually, back when I first got into reading fanfic, I leaned H/H (of course, I don't think there WAS much R/H fic around then either). I think it was "The Best Man" series that really converted me, along with the realization that Ron and Hermione just belong together. I think the main thing is that I just really *like* Ron, and most H/H fics shunt him aside. Ebony, you seem to have good taste (aside from the whole H/H thing, of course (; )--I'll have to check out your favorites page. Kathy From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 07:13:29 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 07:13:29 -0000 Subject: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92mmap+74hs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8186 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > > What about speech and PE... It doesn't seem like flying is all that > strenuous... but getting to classes and meals and the library and back to the dorm IS all that strenuous. I keep wondering how physically disabled ("challenged") students manage. > if Harry is supposed to be flying around on > the Quidditch field then how does he get covered with mud? Harry, as Seeker, has to dive after the Snitch (and PRETEND to dive after the Snitch, as the Wronsky Feint). If the Snitch is hiding on or near the ground, he has to dive down near to the ground: near enough that his grab at the Snitch could splash up mud. I guess the Chasers might have to go near ground level if the Quaffle kind of fell, but I don't know how the Beaters and Keeper and covered with mud.... If their team had WON, it could have happened in the victory giant-hug-and-carry-the-star-athlete-on-shoulders. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Dec 31 07:24:34 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 07:24:34 -0000 Subject: Broomsticks (was: Question about the Ministry of Magic In-Reply-To: <010f01c07246$eb463d20$f82a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <92mmvi+92ak@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8187 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > Okay, so we have > 1. flying cars, which are a no-no > 2. flying carpets, which are forbidden, too > 3. flying motorbike, ditto > 4. flying broomsticks, which are allowed. > And last time I looked, those were "Muggle-Artefacts", too. These broomsticks are not Muggle artifacts; they would be of No Use for sweeping: for one thing, they have Twigs instead of Broomstraws. JKR is always going on about the twigs, such as the Firebolt having each twig individually selected, and Draco asserting that Weasleys have to save up twig by twig to buy a broomstick. I suspect they have other different from Muggle brooms (Muggle brooms like the ones that Filch keeps in what the book calls a "broom closet"). From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 31 08:33:48 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:33:48 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Flamel (Was: Splitting Hairs) Message-ID: <01C07360.D118EC20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8188 When i read this it really made me stop and think. I finally decided that Flamel (the spelling isn't a mistake i looked it up and that's how it is spelled) must had made the stone but was still working in alchemy, I believe that there is more to alchemy than the actually making of the stone but deals with how the magic goes to work through the stone and other such things that deal with the stone. Albus could have been helping Famel to understand the stone further, maybe Flamel creating the stone was part fluke. I hope that makes some sense ~Star~ Star I think you absolutely right here. And, err, sorry about the spelling Its not my forte. storm -----Original Message----- From: Star [SMTP:star_ling at crosswalkmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 10:53 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Fannel (Was: Splitting Hairs) On Sat, 30 December 2000, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > > Kimberly:"My pet 'I wonder' for the moment is - what was Dumbledore's > role in Flamel's alchemy research? According to my admittedly muggle > calculations, if Dumbledore is really 150, then Flamel was already 524 > when he was born, which seems to indicate (unless wizard life > expectancies are even longer than I thought) that he must already have > been tippling a certain elixer. So what would there be left for > Dumbledore to do?" > > Jim: Perhaps Dumbledore was his protoge, his research assistant. > > But Flannel still had - somehow - to get to 524. And JKR appears to be > indicating that AD is getting old and tired at 150. I can see the extended life > thing - but I doubt that it takes one to 524. (and its just occurred to me this > would make Flannel born around the time of NHNick - spooky eh?) > > Storm --------------------------------------------------- Get your free web based email from Crosswalk.com: http://mail.crosswalk.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 09:18:38 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:18:38 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Runes (was:.../Classes/...) References: <92ml8m+5mnk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00de01c0730a$c30ab560$ca3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8189 I wrote: "I thought Runes were stones marked with glyphs, that were used for divining, rather like Tarot Cards?" Catlady explained: <<>> *** Thanks, RITA. As you were explaining that, the phrase "runic alphabet" popped into my head. A friend of my brother's used to "cast the runes" and always referred to the stones as "runes", which must be how I got confused. I now suspect that she was a charlatan who just wanted to appear mysterious. I was thinking; we know very little about the Hogwarts' class Study of Ancient Runes (SAR), because none of the triumvirate have plumped for that option. IIRC, it's also the only class for which we don't know the teacher. I had assumed that it was a branch of Divination and perhaps, subconsciously, that Trelawney would teach it. However, if that were the case, why not just stick it under Divination and be done with it? I have two theories on this: (a) JKR is using 'Rune' to mean language, and intends SAR to be regarded as the magical languages class. However, it would still include magical *ancient* languages (including Latin???) only and not modern languages. (b) SAR is a branch of Divination, but is taught separately from the rest of Divination, because (i) it covers the origins rather than practice of modern Divination, (ii) Hogwarts has a specialist in Runes on the staff, perhaps for a limited period, (iii) Trelawney won't or can't teach the subject and clutches her temples when anyone mentions it, (iv) the teaching of Divination (and perhaps other subjects) is split between several teachers. *** Point (b)(iv), above, brings me to Chistian's comment (from his mammoth post): <<>> He also said: <<>> During the 'number of students' debate earlier this year, I posted something on the number of teachers, which made a similar point to Christian's. I didn't calculate the lesson times in the detail he has, but I did conclude that the apparently small staff we know could not be expected to teach 1000 students within a weekly timetable. If I may recap: - If there were 1000 students, the average year size would be about 150, which would place around 75 students in each double-House class. - Even the elective classes, which presumably draw from all four Houses, could easily attract 40-50 students. - The above suggest that there would need to be (a) more than 14 sessions per week for compulsory subjects even if each class was taught only lesson per week or (b) massive class sizes for all subjects. - From the students' point of view, there would have to be more than one lesson of the compulsory subjects per week or they would have a pretty thin timetable. - We can assume that the students have at least two sessions of each subject each week, because they sometimes have "double" lessons. Christian's assumption of four lessons per week seems reasonable. - As Christian calculated, a Professor such as McGonagall might be facing 56 teaching sessions per week even if we ignore class sizes. - If we accept that there are 1000 students and agree that most of the classes would have to be split into streams to make the numbers smaller, McGonagall could be teaching 56+ classes per week, but it might be approaching 100. At an hour a lesson, that would be 13 hours of teaching every weekday with no breaks for a catnap. - Conclusions: (a) 1000 students is virtually impossible unless there are many more teachers than we have seen, (b) JKR didn't do her sums (and probably didn't expect her work to be examined quite *this* closely). Happy New Year (a) Neil (b) Flying-Ford-Anglia From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 31 09:19:23 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:19:23 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <01C07368.EED1E520.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8190 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > > What about speech and PE... It doesn't seem like flying is all that > strenuous... Rita said: but getting to classes and meals and the library and back to the dorm IS all that strenuous. I keep wondering how physically disabled ("challenged") students manage. I don't think there are any students with disabilities at Hogwarts. I don't know that there are any PWDs anywhere in the magical world, except people like Moody who has acquired a disability later in life. storm -----Original Message----- From: Rita Winston [SMTP:catlady at wicca.net] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 5:13 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes > if Harry is supposed to be flying around on > the Quidditch field then how does he get covered with mud? Harry, as Seeker, has to dive after the Snitch (and PRETEND to dive after the Snitch, as the Wronsky Feint). If the Snitch is hiding on or near the ground, he has to dive down near to the ground: near enough that his grab at the Snitch could splash up mud. I guess the Chasers might have to go near ground level if the Quaffle kind of fell, but I don't know how the Beaters and Keeper and covered with mud.... If their team had WON, it could have happened in the victory giant-hug-and-carry-the-star-athlete-on-shoulders. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 31 09:33:19 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:33:19 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sundry topics (aka The Neverending Email) Message-ID: <01C07368.F33E18E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8191 This did get long, didn't it? Yes but all good The statement about 200 Slytherin supporters at a quidditch match was not from CoS - it was from 'PoA Chapter Fifteen - The Quidditch Final', where it also says that three quarters of the crowd were supporting Gryffindor. I believe the majority of these came from the students and staff at Hogwarts, as I cannot remember ever reading about spectators coming from other places than the school. The only reference to approaching spectators in that chapter refers to those coming from the inside of the castle (through the front doors). Christian - I'm convinced now of the 200 students - seen the evidence in PoA with my own eyes and am entirely reconciled to the JKR's 1000 students. Yeah! Course I bet I'm the only one but still. Thank you 10. STUDENT NUMBERS/WIZARD NUMBERS The number of English wizard-students also determines the total population of wizards in Britain. I did some rough calculations on this, a month or two back, based on the assumption that the average wizard lives twice as long as the average muggle (based on JKR's age-statement - Dumbledore is 150). With that assumption, I concluded that the number of wizards in britain and Ireland is roughly 20 (twenty) times the number of students. 300-400 students would mean a British/Irish population of 6000-8000 wizards all ages. I think the spreadsheet is in the files section. And this is fabulous - I was thinking about this just last night! How did you factor in birthrate - a stable population? And what about the possibility of an extended period of fertility for witches? storm -----Original Message----- From: Christian Stubo [SMTP:rhodhry at yahoo.no] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 12:59 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sundry topics (aka The Neverending Email) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 09:28:05 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:28:05 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: number of students References: <92ml8m+5mnk@eGroups.com> <00de01c0730a$c30ab560$ca3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <010301c0730b$fb6e05a0$ca3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8192 Sorry - I meant to add "no. students" to the Subject line of my last post [Re: Runes (was.../classes/...)] to account for the rambling piece below. I know how annoying it is when people do this, especially re scanning for the club FAQs. [repeated in part] > Point (b)(iv), above, brings me to Chistian's comment (from his mammoth > post): > > << in US English) - > so that Professor McGonagall for instance only teaches every second form and > those that > have transfiguration and related subjects as electives, with another teacher > (or two) > tackling the rest of the transfiguration-classes?>>> > > He also said: > > << the population of wizards this would indicate only barely would be able to > support the > level of activity we see.>>> > > During the 'number of students' debate earlier this year, I posted something > on the number of teachers, which made a similar point to Christian's. I > didn't calculate the lesson times in the detail he has, but I did conclude > that the apparently small staff we know could not be expected to teach 1000 > students within a weekly timetable. If I may recap: > > - If there were 1000 students, the average year size would be about 150, > which would place around 75 students in each double-House class. > > - Even the elective classes, which presumably draw from all four Houses, > could easily attract 40-50 students. > > - The above suggest that there would need to be (a) more than 14 sessions > per week for compulsory subjects even if each class was taught only lesson > per week or (b) massive class sizes for all subjects. > > - From the students' point of view, there would have to be more than one > lesson of the compulsory subjects per week or they would have a pretty thin > timetable. > > - We can assume that the students have at least two sessions of each subject > each week, because they sometimes have "double" lessons. Christian's > assumption of four lessons per week seems reasonable. > > - As Christian calculated, a Professor such as McGonagall might be facing 56 > teaching sessions per week even if we ignore class sizes. > > - If we accept that there are 1000 students and agree that most of the > classes would have to be split into streams to make the numbers smaller, > McGonagall could be teaching 56+ classes per week, but it might be > approaching 100. At an hour a lesson, that would be 13 hours of teaching > every weekday with no breaks for a catnap. > > - Conclusions: (a) 1000 students is virtually impossible unless there are > many more teachers than we have seen, (b) JKR didn't do her sums (and > probably didn't expect her work to be examined quite *this* closely). > > Happy New Year > > (a) Neil > (b) Flying-Ford-Anglia > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 11:02:51 2000 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:02:51 -0000 Subject: Questions from American Muggle/'Shipping Post Message-ID: <92n3or+bkta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8193 Apologies again, as a relative newbie, if these things have been discussed before. On the school: I get the impression from my limited amount of British cultural knowledge that Hogwarts is sort of like Eton or Harrow in terms of prestiege, but appears to be funded by the government. On the other hand, it also seems to be the wizarding equivalent of Oxbridge, based on what I heard Rowling has said (no higher ed.), and various clues in the books (Ron's elder siblings went to work right after school). On how nearly all the adults work for the state (with the exception of one of Ron's brothers who works for the bank, Lockhart, Skeeter, L. Malfoy, and Voldy...it seems to be the expected thing to go into civil service) : I recall reading an British novel set recently where a lot of the characters also all worked at Whitehall (and the rest were academics). Is this some sort of British convention? 'Shipping: I wish I could get involved in the whole H/R/H/Cho/Ginny imbroglio, but am sadly afflicted with Subversively Interesting Secondary Character Syndrome, a condition in which one is unable to obsess over the relationships of the main character, for some reason. (I also suffer from Angstiness Syndrome, but that's another post.) Also, they seem too young, mentally, at this point. But if Rowling decides to give the older characters some semblance of personal lives, I'll jump into the whole darn 'shipping thing. Charmian From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sun Dec 31 12:13:42 2000 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:13:42 -0000 Subject: Questions from American Muggle/'Shipping Post In-Reply-To: <92n3or+bkta@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92n7tm+d2tn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8194 Charmian" wrote: > > On the school: I get the impression from my limited amount of > British cultural knowledge that Hogwarts is sort of like Eton or > Harrow in terms of prestiege, but appears to be funded by the > government. On the other hand, it also seems to be the wizarding > equivalent of Oxbridge, based on what I heard Rowling has said (no > higher ed.), and various clues in the books (Ron's elder siblings > went to work right after school). JKR has indeed said that there are no wizard universities. Hogwarts is the only wizarding school in Britain, so it cannot help but be the best. Having been around for about a millenium or so it will have amassed a certain level of prestige. > On how nearly all the adults work for the state (with the exception > of one of Ron's brothers who works for the bank, Lockhart, Skeeter, > L. Malfoy, and Voldy...it seems to be the expected thing to go into > civil service) : I recall reading an British novel set recently > where a lot of the characters also all worked at Whitehall (and the > rest were academics). Is this some sort of British convention? No, we're not communists, we don't all work for the state. I can't imagine that all wizards do either. I think it just so happens that JKR put that in coincidentally. The civil service has to have a civilisation to serve otherwise it has nothing to do. It can't be completely self-serving (see second law of Thermodynamics). I don't think that Hogwards can be government funded. It must cost a mint to fund a child through a school like that; excellent class sizes and facilities, massive buildings and ground etc. not to mention the fact that it's a boarding school, although it could be independently funded through its' own investments. Recently Trinity College Cambridge found that its' investments had paid off so well that it considered letting students off tuition fees (Trinity has about ?300 million in readies according to a poll I saw a couple of years ago). With 1000 years of history, Hogwarts could easily have amassed quite a stash. Dai From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 12:25:54 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:25:54 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions from American Muggle/'Shipping Post References: <92n3or+bkta@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000801c07324$eb00f7e0$f53670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8195 Charmian said: <<>> Hi Charmian, We haven't heard about much of the wizarding job market outside Hogwarts, the Wizarding Government and the traders of Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade (and not much of the last two), so that may have created a biased picture. I'm not sure I agree that most of the adults work for the state: does Madam Malkin? Mr Ollivander? Madam Rosmerta? the authors of all those schoolbooks? There must be countless minor characters and unmentioned people who don't work for the state. When it comes to working for the state in real Britain, I think it depends on the choice of job, career or vocation . Obviously, some companies/bodies are state-owned or state-run, but many are privately-owned or privately-run. There is no expectation of people to join the civil service, although working for the civil service certainly carries prestige and a public (US: private) school/Oxbridge education could open a few doors there, particularly in Whitehall. Hmmm. I hope I've responded to your question and not got the wrong end of the stick! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sun Dec 31 13:13:18 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:13:18 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Number of Students References: Message-ID: <004701c0732b$72bf46e0$2160063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8196 > > > But, if you notice, there are more Slytherins and Hufflepuffs than > Griffindors.... > What if only children with parents who were in Gryffindor were killed, on the grounds hat they were the ones who would be most likely to have the necessary character traits to want to fight HWMNBN ? Michelle From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 31 14:47:49 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:47:49 -0000 Subject: Sundry topics: Neuschwanstein In-Reply-To: <92mk2m+mj4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ngul+i1pj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8197 There's a picture of Neuschwanstein Castle at this URL: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Geographic+Locations/neusch wanstein.jpg More here: http://www.castles.org/castles/Europe/Central_Europe/Germany/germany7. htm Be sure to cut and past the whole URL. Personally, I prefer the English castles and cathedrals as models for Hogwarts. Neuschwanstein doesn't seem "gothic" enough. Still, Hogwarts has to have at least 7 floors... -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > Last night I was looking at a catalog of cross-stitch and needlepoint > patterns and there were several views of Mad Ludwig's Neuschwanstein. > Comparing the views one to another, about the time that I decided > that there seem to be seven floors in the main building, I realised > that Tim is right that Hogwarts looks like Neuschwanstein. From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 31 14:50:46 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:50:46 -0000 Subject: 3D Cartography Message-ID: <92nh46+h2v8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8198 Does anyone know how the Marauders' map shows all seven+ floors (plus dungeons, sub-dungeons, etc.) simultaneously? It must be a pretty complex, multi-layered map. -JF From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 15:43:11 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:43:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues References: <200012310406.eBV46dU13149@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A4F540F.53DCF29@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8199 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Okay, I don't understand how people can say that there is no evidence > that Hermione likes Ron back. What about the several times in GoF when > Hermione gets all annoyed at the attention Ron is paying to Fleur? Hermione dislikes Fleur -- she dislikes Fleur even before Ron makes a prat out of himself trying to get Fleur's attention. She was disdainful of the entire BeauxBatons bunch, but I think she was particularly critical of Fleur. I think Hermione sees her as some sort of affront to women, and it doesn't seem to me that this dislike of Fleur has much to do with the attention that Ron is paying to Fleur so much as it is just a general dislike of Fleur as a person. If Harry were fawning all over Fleur, Hermione would have been upset with him too (IMO). Granted, Hermione probably is jealous of Fleur on some level, but I don't think it's connected to Ron necessarily. I think Hermione views her as simpering & vapid, and yet she was talented enough to get chosen as the School Champion for Beaux Batons. That probably irks Hermione more than anything, in my mind anyway. > When they are leaving Hogwarts at the end of GoF, Fleur "smiled > at [Ron]; Hermione scowled" (GoF, UK ediiton, p.628). That's a > SEMICOLON people; these things are related. As I said above, she has strong disdain for Fleur as a person. The fact that the two phrases are related by the semi-colon doesn't give you the definitive motivation for Hermione's scowl. It could be what you think: Hermione is jealous because Fleur is paying attention to her (Hermione's) love interest. Or, it could be what I think: Hermione's annoyed because she dislikes Fleur, and she doesn't want Fleur flirting even the slightest bit with one of her friends. Or, it could be other motivations that are more complex or more simplistic. Connection of two thoughts does not, however, yield an automatic black & white motivation. The Kiss: I'm sticking with the teenagers on that one. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 15:46:11 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:46:11 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 3D Cartography References: <92nh46+h2v8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000e01c07340$e5b01fc0$293770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8200 Jim Flanagan said: <<< Does anyone know how the Marauders' map shows all seven+ floors (plus dungeons, sub-dungeons, etc.) simultaneously? It must be a pretty complex, multi-layered map. I'd concluded that it shows the immediate vicinity of the viewer rather than the whole castle in 3D, but I guess it must be possible choose to view any area. In PoA the map is described as showing "every detail of the castle and grounds," but that doesn't necessarily mean it shows them simultaneously; if it were to show plan views of every level alongside each other in sufficient detail for names to be read against the moving dots it would have to be huge. Harry calls it a "ragged old bit of parchment," which sounds like something about the size of an open magazine, at most. Could it be that it tracks across the areas of interest when they are selected? In other words, if someone points at "Fourth Floor, East Wing" that level fades into view, but they can easily switch to viewing another area by pointing at it, or saying its name. In addition to the 'self-select' view and 'local' view, I think there must be an 'alarm' view, which alerts the viewer to a preset danger or to the location of something they seek. It would be a bit like setting a search engine to search for "Filch" or "Dementor" in comparison to using an on screen menu to select floors/areas to view. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From lexac3 at usa.net Sun Dec 31 16:26:10 2000 From: lexac3 at usa.net (Alex Corvus) Date: 31 Dec 00 09:26:10 MST Subject: Fanfic set in books Message-ID: <20001231162610.15338.qmail@nwcst289.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8201 Kathy wrote: >>I have noticed a small but growing number of fanfics that take place during the times of the books and show what might have been happening "offstage". Is there a term for these kind of fics?>> Missing Scenes. At least, that's what media fandom tends to call them when they're set offstage during a TV show or movie. I had typed up an introduction, complete with rambling, to go along with this, as it's my first step out of lurking, but then the computer froze up and ate it, and I must go madly clean my apartment in preparation for NEW Year's visitors, so I suppose I'll just say Hi for now. Hi. Alexa Maintain this, prag. - OZ and due South colliding, violently ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Dec 31 16:27:02 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:27:02 -0000 Subject: Happy New Year's Eve (OT) Message-ID: <92nmom+dsnn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8202 Looks like I'll be missing chat today, so I am dropping in now to wish a safe and happy New Year's Eve to everybody on the list! And a very Harry New Year to all. Pippin From morine10 at aol.com Sun Dec 31 16:33:32 2000 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:33:32 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <91.4e9e97c.2780b9dc@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8203 In a message dated 12/31/00 5:05:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, msmacgoo at one.net.au writes: > I don't think there are any students with disabilities at Hogwarts. I don't > know that there are any PWDs anywhere in the magical world, except people > like > Moody who has acquired a disability later in life. > It seems the only thing that medical magic is unable to fix is poor eyesight. -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 17:12:46 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:12:46 -0500 Subject: Newbie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8204 Nick wrote: >I'm down the road from you... on the Surrey / Berkshire border. Ooh...is that near the Dursleys?! ;-) Amy - - - - - - - - - - "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 17:21:53 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:21:53 -0500 Subject: bowlers, bowlers everywhere Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8205 Laurel and Hardy's hats are bowlers. There is something Ollie-ish about Fudge, isn't there? Or am I just under the influence of Jim Dale? (BTW, someone was wondering about his reading as vs. Fry's. I loved it--it was the way I first encountered the books, a dear person at work lent me all 4 on tape because I commute a long way--but if you like a very straight, unaccented reading, skip them. He really acts out each character. I was very, very impressed. As soon as someone starts talking you know who it is just from the voice. One other caveat: he is British but reads the U.S. versions.) I got curious about the difference between a bowler and a derby so I looked them up. According to the American Heritage Dictionary they're the same thing. Amy - - - - - - - - - - "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 17:31:36 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 17:31:36 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] bowlers, bowlers everywhere References: Message-ID: <001c01c0734f$87e1b2a0$f93470c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8206 Amy Z said: <<< Laurel and Hardy's hats are bowlers. There is something Ollie-ish about Fudge, isn't there?>>> I can't believe I didn't think of that!! As a (now lapsed) member of the Sons of the Desert - the L&H fan club - I should hang my head in shame. I don't see Fudge as nearly so large and pompous as Oliver Hardy, but more as a smarmy, mole-like man; rather reserved and dull. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 31 18:01:14 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:01:14 -0000 Subject: Fanfic set in books In-Reply-To: <20001231162610.15338.qmail@nwcst289.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <92ns9a+6po3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8207 I don't know if the literary device of retelling a story from a different POV has a specific name, but it has been used to good effect in Tom Stoppard's play (and movie) "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead," which parallels "Hamlet" from the POV of these two minor characters. The movie is available on video and I recommend it highly. Here's an interesting lecture that discusses Stoppard's play: http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/introser/stoppard.htm I think that part of the appeal of this device comes from an innate appreciation that we humans have for re-experiencing familar things "with a new twist." For example, familiar songs re- orchestrated, or plays restaged in a different time period. If you're interested in good HP fanfic that describes action from a different character's POV, take a look at "The Wolfsbane Potion" by Blaise, which retells portions of PoA from Snape's POV: http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=109904 It must be very difficult to write a parallel story that is creative and interesting, but which does not violate either the factual basis or the spirit of the original. Blaise does a good job of interpolating the action from Snape's point of view within JKR's original framework; however, she does insert an apocryphal subplot involving Snape attempting to do something that could be damaging to Lupin, contrary to Dumbledore's direct instructions. This subplot, though superficially plausible, goes counter (IMHO) to the layers of ambiguity that JKR has carefully erected around Snape and subverts his established loyalty to Dumbledore. Nevertheless, it is very interesting and well-written fic. -JF --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Alex Corvus wrote: > Kathy wrote: > > >>I have noticed a small but growing number of fanfics that take place during > the times of the books and show what might have been happening "offstage". Is > there a term for these kind of fics?>> > > Missing Scenes. > > At least, that's what media fandom tends to call them when they're set > offstage during a TV show or movie. > > I had typed up an introduction, complete with rambling, to go along with this, > as it's my first step out of lurking, but then the computer froze up and ate > it, and I must go madly clean my apartment in preparation for NEW Year's > visitors, so I suppose I'll just say Hi for now. > > Hi. > > Alexa > > Maintain this, prag. > - OZ and due South colliding, violently > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From kathleen at carr.org Sun Dec 31 17:34:42 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:34:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <200012311838.eBVIcIU04960@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8208 Penny wrote: >I think Hermione sees her as some sort of affront to >women, and it doesn't seem to me that this dislike of Fleur has much to >do with the attention that Ron is paying to Fleur so much as it is just >a general dislike of Fleur as a person. If Harry were fawning all over >Fleur, Hermione would have been upset with him too (IMO). Spoken like a a true H/H shipper. I still don't buy it though (I bet you're not surprised!). Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that you can't read all the H/H stuff into the books and then say there's "no" evidence that Hermione could like Ron back. There's just as much evidence; you just have to be willing to see it. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree! Kathy From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sun Dec 31 18:35:30 2000 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:35:30 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teenagers, sex and culture References: <92lav9+t8gf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000201c07359$604b3900$a75c063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8209 But the above statement seems to imply that I don't know much > about anything besides American culture (which in and of itself is a > hodge-podge of just about every current civilization on the planet). > Have I ever said this? I'm sorry if I misintepreted your previous statments. I honestly had no wish to offend. > (sigh) Again, I *do* see Naama's point. I stated that before. > However, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm unsure that > either of you see mine. It's easy to misinterpret a written message when you can't place emphasis on words, etc. I know. > My students were not trying to bash British kids or say *they* were > weird; they were only trying to read their experiences into the > books. They resented my "devil's advocate" statements, I think, > because in their minds I was questioning their "ownership" of the > books. Sort of the way a jazz aficionado/ critic from Albania might > feel if an African-American questioned their ability to interpret > their favorite music. I suppose so. But you have to remember that JKR seems to be using some of her own experiences in writing the books. And that ( unless I'm completely mistaken is middle class middle England ). And you have to remember the kiss in that context. Which is more difficult to do when you only ever see it on TV ( just like we do with American culture ) where accents and values are intermingled ( I'm thinking of pupular long running drama, comedy and teen shows here ) therefore creating the false impression that the two cultures are completely homogenous. Believe me, I 've lived in France and Germany but would still have no clue as to how their youth cultures work. > I also doubt very seriously that as a rule American kids are less > cosmopolitan or worldly wise that children in other cultures. I can only generalise from my own experiences, as can we all. But my howm town is Ford's UK HQ, so I've met quite a few people from different cultures myself. A lot of Americans, mostly. This is annoying--I might disagree with what you are saying, and perhaps even feel as if you have no right to say it because I know more about it than you do, but I respect your right to make your statement (case in point: the anti-HP Religious Right). I wasn't trying to slap you down, I respect your view on a lot of things. But this thing about the Kiss has been overblown anyway because it's just a peck. Goodness, men and women who've only just met give each other a peck on the cheek ! It's been really interesting reading about your students' views. But they see it in a contest of a society where I've gained the impression that dating starts far earlier than is the case in my experience ( south eastern corner of England ). That was my point in the last mail. > One interesting aspect of cultural criticism is that the most > *objective* critiques often come from persons who hail from outside > of that culture (de Tocqueville comes to mind). I've not studied literary criticism ( to pull a book apart for the sake of it is the quickest way to loathe a favourite book ) but if you want to e-mail me off line to explain this last point, I'd welcome that. Michelle From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sun Dec 31 19:30:26 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:30:26 -0000 Subject: Marcus Flint References: <92mlvm+lttp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007f01c07360$214b1fc0$d44d893e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 8210 > > I would think that if you failed a level, they wouldn't be keen on > > your continuing with things. > > As IIRC Neil already mentioned, the fans decided that Flint had > failed too many classes and had to repeat one year BEFORE JKR said on > in an on-line chat. Muggle schools don't let people with students > with sufficiently bad grades have extra-curricular activities (unless > they are REALLY GOOD athletes, important for the team to win), but I > expect that Dumbledore believes that a student should be allowed to > do the one thing he's good at. I always thought it was a reference to the still common practice of allowing a non academic pupil to stay on at a good university/ medical school because of their skill in rugby. Exeter my old uni and of course JKR's certainly still does this. Indeed people are given places and schoolarships based on rugby ability. I also know of at least one medical school which I won't name but its one of the best and most respected in the UK that gives applicants who are county rugby players offers upto 3 grades lower! Eg foe nom UK residents instead of AAB for example they might be offered BBC. They also get more opportunities to resit if they are winning for the uni. This is because rugby is all important. As Quidditch is equally important in the wizarding world I imagine the same rules apply. Heather > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 19:34:41 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:34:41 -0000 Subject: Teenagers, sex and culture In-Reply-To: <000201c07359$604b3900$a75c063e@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <92o1oh+10pvm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8211 Hi, Michelle and all: --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote:> I wasn't trying to slap you down, I respect your view on a lot of > things. But this thing about the Kiss has been overblown anyway because it's just a peck. Goodness, men and women who've only just met give each other a peck on the cheek ! Michelle (and Naama as well), I apologize for flying off the handle in my last post under this thread... that's the one thing that I have in common with Ron's character in real life. I don't want to seem like an insufferable know-it-all... I'm here to learn. The books fascinated me enough to want to know more about the author, the setting, etc. One of the things I've enjoyed most about the list is experiencing the different POVs on a topic we all happen to love--HP. And I know I treasure the insights we get from the Brits-in-residence... we're very fortunate to have you guys around to humor our questions about the cultural differences. And upon further thought, my gut feeling is to agree with you on the kiss thing. My initial impression was that it was insignificant... but even if it *was* meaningless, because of our endless discussions it sure brings a smile to this H/H shipper's face. ;) Feeling more than a little bit silly now, Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 19:41:50 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:41:50 -0000 Subject: Veritaserum Question In-Reply-To: <92lvrd+c3qp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92o25u+l5km@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8212 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > I think it has to be virtual truth...otherwise you could ask > anybody anything and get the truth ie, "What is the secret of life, the universe and everything?" OK, I understand this. All right, then. Let me give you a hypothetical situation. It may seem implausible, but allow me to use it for the purposes of illustration. One day, Neville goes to Dumbledore's office and steals the Sorting Hat. When he arrives back to the Gryffindor boys' dorm, Seamus puts him under a Memory Charm that succeeds in only erasing the last 1-2 hours of his memories. Later, he is interrogated by the teachers about whether or not he stole the hat. He says "no". Then Snape gives him Veritaserum and asks him, "Neville, did you take the Sorting Hat from D.'s office?" What would Neville say? Yes or no? This is what I meant by remembered truth vs. actual truth. In both cases, the person actually experienced the event at some point in time... so would the Veritaserum derive a "yes" or a "no"? --Ebony From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Dec 31 19:55:18 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:55:18 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <15.dddd58e.2780e926@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8213 In a message dated 12/31/2000 1:38:31 PM EST, kathleen at carr.org writes: << Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that you can't read all the H/H stuff into the books and then say there's "no" evidence that Hermione could like Ron back. There's just as much evidence; you just have to be willing to see it. >> Penny, I think you should try drafting a "no-evidence" motion for summary judgment and see if it holds up in court! Sorry, just couldn't help it! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 20:09:45 2000 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Kazza mazzoo) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:09:45 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please In-Reply-To: <00a501c072bf$a11371e0$26c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <92o3q9+llkn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8214 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > SV is Re in Swedish(and Norwegian), my OE's fault. There is somewhere to change it to English, I just don't know where!!! > All the Dementors stopping happens at the same time because they have the Time Turner. It makes the same time happen twice or maybe more, sort of a time machine. I hope you understand. > catrina Okay, so now what is OE?? LOL Or is that supposed to be IE? =D I understand how the time turner works, but I still don't get how he stopped the dementors the first time round before the time turner. Kazz From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 20:36:22 2000 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Kazza mazzoo) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:36:22 -0000 Subject: Explanations please In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001230221044.00be4d20@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <92o5c6+9qu9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8215 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 09:25 AM 12/31/00 +0800, Nathan wrote: > For an observer Beyond Time, that point of > Time had two Harrys, one about to experience a Dementor's Kiss, one > casting the Patronus Charm. > > This seems the best theory. Harry must have seen the "ghost" of a > parallel universe in which he conjures the Patronus which resolved > itself when he actually did it. One would probably have to read a > good book on quantum/parallel universe theory like one of Michio > Kaku's books to understand it thoroughly. > -- Dave Okay, I've gotten the hang of this parallel universe thingy now, but here's a thought .. If there were indeed 2 Harry's, one experience the Dementor's Kiss, and the oher casting the Patronus Charm, which one was first? a)If it was Harry with the Dementor's Kiss, there wouldn't even be a Harry 2 with the Patronus Charm, as he'd be dead. b)If it was Harry with the Patronus Charm, then he wouldn't have gone back to cast the spell and wouldn't have thought it was his dad. Any further thoughts people? Or have just muddied the water again hehehe Kazza From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 20:47:45 2000 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Kazza mazzoo) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:47:45 -0000 Subject: Egroups profile question Message-ID: <92o61h+dpk2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8216 Does anyone know how to modify the settings so that your whole email address is not listed? I looked myself up, and found that my whole email address was displayed, whereas some members only have abc123 at blankblankblank. Does anyone have their whole email address showing? Silly way to find out how to change it, because now people can go and find it LOL Nevermind eh, maybe next year I might get a new brain for Christmas hehehe Kazz From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 20:55:41 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:55:41 -0500 Subject: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? etc. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8217 -Are all Slytherins rotten . . . ? I firmly believe NO. Not only for the excellent reason given by Christian (most Slytherin students applauding Harry in CoMC class) but also because of what the Sorting Hat says: Griffindors are brave, Hufflepuffs hard-working, Ravenclaws smart, Slytherins ambitious. I'm not taking the SH's view as gospel--after all, it wouldn't be very nice if it sang about how this was the house for evil, power-mad sadists, so maybe it's being tactful. But I'll go with it because I like the idea that there is nothing inherently wrong with ambition. As we know, Harry is pretty proud, ambitious, and driven himself (maybe that's why the SH considered putting him in Slytherin). Those qualities are good servants, bad masters; without strong moral fiber to keep them in their place, they tend to make someone dangerous. I prefer this idea because otherwise we're left with the idea that about 25% of incoming Hogwarts students are evil to start with, at the tender age of 11 no less. I think character is much more malleable than that, and furthermore, that ambitious and tempted-to-the-Dark-Side characters are way more interesting than through-and-through evil-from-the-start characters. -Number of students cont'd >Also, remember that Hogwarts is *large* - Professor Flitwick's office is >located >on the >seventh floor, and this is described as being one of the "...upper floors >of the >castle", >not just a single tower (Both informations from 'PoA Chapter Twenty-one - >Hermione's >Secret'). It is not even specified as being the top floor. We do have to remember that the professors *live* there. Their homes are usually referred to interchangeably as their "offices" (e.g. with Trelawney and Lupin, though Snape, for one, seems to have a separate office and apartment, judging from the break-in in "The Egg and the Eye," GoF). So the building is not only a school, with classrooms, dormitories, etc., but includes full apartments for all the faculty, minus Hagrid. That takes up a lot of square footage, even with a bunch of unmarried, childless faculty (well, maybe Sinistra and other little-known profs are married and JKR just doesn't want to get into that). And those 100+ house-elves have to live somewhere. ;-) >I think what Rowling has done to a degree basically equals what is known in >model >railroading as 'selective compression'. The concept is that you show >enough of >the scene >so that it is recoganisable to the viewer/reader, but you do not show it >all, as >that >would take to much space. Absolutely. Just because we only know 3 4th-year Griffindor girls doesn't mean there are only three. Same goes for the boys, even. But other evidence suggests there are only about 20 students per class per house (class size, e.g.). I go with the "Jo said 1000 off the top of her head" theory. Although I love the HWMNBN-as-Herod theory! The end of PS all but promises we'll learn one day why V wanted to kill Harry in the first place. We might be nibbling around the mystery here. >Flying doesn't seem to last all year. This seems likely, but I don't think we can know; we can't go by Harry, who proves to be a natural so he never takes lessons again. Amy - - - - - - - - - - "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 20:59:11 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:59:11 -0500 Subject: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8218 >Okay, I don't understand how people can say that there is no evidence that >Hermione likes Ron back. What about the several times in GoF when Hermione >gets all annoyed at the attention Ron is paying to Fleur? I know I know, >we've been through this before, I know the time after the 2nd task could be >interpreted as H/H or H/R because Fleur kisses both Harry and Ron, but, I >will say it again: When they are leaving Hogwarts at the end of GoF, Fleur >"smiled at [Ron]; Hermione scowled" (GoF, UK ediiton, p.628). That's a >SEMICOLON people; these things are related. And I still maintain that the >kiss two pages later is a)Hermione being supportive of one of her best >friends who has been through hell and b) a subtle attempt at getting back >at Ron for the incident with Fleur. Although seriously I think putting any >romantic spin on "the kiss" takes away from the story at this point. To >me, the ending scene was a beautiful reiteration of the closeness of the 3 >friends and how Harry can make it because of his friends support. That, >more than my H/R leaning, is the reason why the big hooha about the kiss >bugs me. It's like it cheapens the whole thing somehow. (And, as B. >Bennett's "The Other Kiss" shows, we certainly don't know what happened >after Harry went through that barrier, do we?). >Anyway, rant over >(for now) >Kathy I agree with you on all counts, Kathy! I wonder what teenage *girls* say about the final kiss. Boys are more likely to think a kiss has to be about romance; girls kiss each other, their parents, etc., more readily, hence don't think every kiss is a prelude to romance/sex. I didn't even take notice of it (I'm 32, though, so what do I know? better ask a 14-year-old). Your sister in ranting, Amy P.S. I can't believe I'm getting into the shipper debate! I don't even know what the **** a shipper is! Is it from "relationship"? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 21:00:59 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:00:59 -0500 Subject: Wizard Economics Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8219 Someone, I forget who, questioned whether there is such a thing as economics in a world where you can just conjure up out of the ether whatever you need. We aren't privy to how-all this works, but we do know you can't just conjure anything. Otherwise Mrs. Weasley would just conjure Ron some decent dress robes, and more generally, the W's wouldn't be poor. Money does play a role in wizard life. Sad but true. Amy - - - - - - - - - - "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 21:04:55 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:04:55 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Egroups profile question References: <92o61h+dpk2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <012001c0736d$53de9720$7b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8220 Kazz asked: > Does anyone know how to modify the settings so that your whole email > address is not listed? I looked myself up, and found that my whole > email address was displayed, whereas some members only have > abc123 at blankblankblank. > Does anyone have their whole email address showing? Silly way to > find out how to change it, because now people can go and find it LOL Kazz, everyone sees their own e-mail address in full on the Members list while everyone else's appears in truncated form. Don't feel stupid though, I asked exactly the same question some time ago... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 21:20:59 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:20:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Re: H/H shippers clues References: Message-ID: <3A4FA33B.5C16C00D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8221 Hi -- Amy Z wrote: > I agree with you on all counts, Kathy! I wonder what teenage *girls* > say about the final kiss. Ebony confirmed yesterday that many of her students who placed significance on the kiss are girls. Cassie's 14 yr old cousins who said the same thing are girls. I think there's plenty of evidence that both boys *and* girls at that age (in the US at least) think it probably means Hermione has some romantic feelings for Harry. > P.S. I can't believe I'm getting into the shipper debate! I don't > even > know what the **** a shipper is! Is it from "relationship"? Yes! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 21:23:48 2000 From: slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com (Brigid Black) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:23:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8222 >From: "Amy Z" >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Re: H/H shippers clues >Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:59:11 -0500 > > > >Okay, I don't understand how people can say that there is no evidence >that > >Hermione likes Ron back. What about the several times in GoF when >Hermione > >gets all annoyed at the attention Ron is paying to Fleur? I know I know, > >we've been through this before, I know the time after the 2nd task could >be > >interpreted as H/H or H/R because Fleur kisses both Harry and Ron, but, I > >will say it again: When they are leaving Hogwarts at the end of GoF, >Fleur > >"smiled at [Ron]; Hermione scowled" (GoF, UK ediiton, p.628). That's a > >SEMICOLON people; these things are related. And I still maintain that >the > >kiss two pages later is a)Hermione being supportive of one of her best > >friends who has been through hell and b) a subtle attempt at getting back > >at Ron for the incident with Fleur. Although seriously I think putting >any > >romantic spin on "the kiss" takes away from the story at this point. To > >me, the ending scene was a beautiful reiteration of the closeness of the >3 > >friends and how Harry can make it because of his friends support. That, > >more than my H/R leaning, is the reason why the big hooha about the kiss > >bugs me. It's like it cheapens the whole thing somehow. (And, as B. > >Bennett's "The Other Kiss" shows, we certainly don't know what happened > >after Harry went through that barrier, do we?). > > >Anyway, rant over > >(for now) > > >Kathy > >I agree with you on all counts, Kathy! I wonder what teenage *girls* say >about the final kiss. Boys are more likely to think a kiss has to be about >romance; girls kiss each other, their parents, etc., more readily, hence >don't think every kiss is a prelude to romance/sex. I didn't even take >notice of it (I'm 32, though, so what do I know? better ask a 14-year-old). > >Your sister in ranting, >Amy > >P.S. I can't believe I'm getting into the shipper debate! I don't even >know what the **** a shipper is! Is it from "relationship"? Here is the opinion of several teenage girls: a kiss does not mean you ahve romantic feelings for a guy. If you were in a relationship with that guy it would mean something but if he was a friend and you kissed him it wouldn't nessecarily mean you liked a guy in a romantic way. I asked around and all the girls I know (some who hadn't read HP before I asked) didn't think that such a kiss would be romantic. They all said that the circumstances have to be taken into consideration. As always people have to remember that teenage boys think everything has something to do with sex. Girls do not usually have that problem and would not immediately think 'She likes him.' after reading that. Rantmeister General, Brigid _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 21:47:24 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 13:47:24 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <20001231214724.23158.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8223 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 21:48:54 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 13:48:54 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy New Year's Eve (OT) Message-ID: <20001231214854.23496.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8224 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 21:58:16 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 13:58:16 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 3D Cartography Message-ID: <20001231215816.15248.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8225 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 31 21:57:48 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 22:57:48 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please OT References: <92o3q9+llkn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <020001c07376$1c609240$c6c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8226 OE is Outlook Express, Microsoft's program to handle e-mail. IE is Internet Explorer. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kazza mazzoo Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 31 december 2000 21:09 ?mne: Re: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > SV is Re in Swedish(and Norwegian), my OE's fault. There is somewhere to change it to English, I just don't know where!!! > All the Dementors stopping happens at the same time because they have the Time Turner. It makes the same time happen twice or maybe more, sort of a time machine. I hope you understand. > catrina Okay, so now what is OE?? LOL Or is that supposed to be IE? =D I understand how the time turner works, but I still don't get how he stopped the dementors the first time round before the time turner. Kazz eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Sun Dec 31 22:01:11 2000 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:01:11 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Egroups profile question References: <92o61h+dpk2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <020101c07376$1d74c160$c6c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8227 I had the same problem, Kazz. Its only your own address that is shown complete because its Your account and Your groups, anyone else only sees your address shortened: I see mine whole but yours cut, you see yours whole but mine cut, ok? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kazza mazzoo Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 31 december 2000 21:47 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Egroups profile question Does anyone know how to modify the settings so that your whole email address is not listed? I looked myself up, and found that my whole email address was displayed, whereas some members only have abc123 at blankblankblank. Does anyone have their whole email address showing? Silly way to find out how to change it, because now people can go and find it LOL Nevermind eh, maybe next year I might get a new brain for Christmas hehehe Kazz eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From drmm at fuuko.com Sun Dec 31 22:14:57 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 22:14:57 -0000 Subject: the H/H kiss and other stuff . . . Message-ID: <92ob51+vdjh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8228 Er, this would be my take on the kiss that Hermione gives Harry in GoF. I can't see that it proves Hermione likes Harry. In fact, I would argue that it could prove she *doesn't* like Harry. I suspect that most (younger) girls would be very reluctant to kiss a guy they liked for fear that it would give away their secret crush. Therefore, when she kisses Harry she's not thinking from the POV of a girl with a crush, she's thinking from the POV of a friend and nothing more. I know I wouldn't have dreamed of it (although I admit I don't identify with Hermione much). And I don't know who posted this (I've been away) but that could explain why the girls in this persons class (or whatever it was) supported R/H rather than H/H. And on to other things . . . Someone a few weeks ago mentioned how the R/H shippers tend to be quieter than the H/H one and attributed this to the fact that the R/H supporters are less vocal. I'm an R/H supporter (although definatly not as um, obsessed? as some H/H fans). I don't have any problems being vocal about my opinions. Quite frankly I enjoy getting into discussions about disagreements and different opinions. However, I do think that there's a point in time when discussing different opinions becomes pointless. I think discussing the H/H vs. H/R argument *is* pointless. No matter how many logical arguments I and other H/R supporters come up with it's never going to change the opinion of H/H supporters like Penny. What will happen is that both of us will continue through the same cycle of arguments for or against the pairings ad nauseum (is that spelled right?). And eventually, this could easily lead to misunderstandings and possibly hurt feelings. I stated my reasons for preferring H/R (although I have no idea what message number that is) a few months ago and chose to leave it at that. There's a point in time when people just have to stop discussing something; they need to agree to disagree. I think the romance debate reached that point a long time ago. Therefore, I just don't post about it. That's why *this* Hermione/Ron fan isn't as vocal about it. And hopefully this makes sense. DrMM (who sometimes feels overwhelmed being in such a loud pro H/H environment) From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 31 22:33:46 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 09:33:46 +1100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please Message-ID: <01C073D5.F8501500.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8229 I understand how the time turner works, but I still don't get how he stopped the dementors the first time round before the time turner. Kazz He could do it because he had already done it. The two events (even though to HP and us appear to be sequential from out POV) are actually simultaneous. storm -----Original Message----- From: Kazza mazzoo [SMTP:kazz2439 at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:10 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > SV is Re in Swedish(and Norwegian), my OE's fault. There is somewhere to change it to English, I just don't know where!!! > All the Dementors stopping happens at the same time because they have the Time Turner. It makes the same time happen twice or maybe more, sort of a time machine. I hope you understand. > catrina Okay, so now what is OE?? LOL Or is that supposed to be IE? =D To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 22:32:21 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:32:21 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <20001231223221.6475.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8230 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 22:32:30 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:32:30 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <20001231223230.6494.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8231 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 22:40:16 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:40:16 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <20001231224016.7924.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8232 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 22:46:32 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:46:32 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I Hate The Cover Art Message-ID: <20001231224632.8701.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8233 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Dec 31 22:48:26 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:48:26 -0800 Subject: Chat. Message-ID: <20001231224826.3765.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8234 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 22:57:09 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:57:09 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cover Art/UK 'adult' GoF? Message-ID: <20001231225709.10544.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8235 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Dec 31 23:18:50 2000 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 10:18:50 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: <01C073DC.45C03E40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8236 Farmer in the Dell (farmer take a wife, wife take a child, child take a dog ... and so on) Search the list - sorry I appear to have deleted the relevant e-mail - there was some good discussion a week or so (26/27?) back with some links. storm -----Original Message----- From: Star [SMTP:star_ling at crosswalkmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 8:40 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues > kids argue that if anything, FITD will cause problems on Ron's part. What exactly it FITD, I've seen it refered to often as well as this square/betrayal theory but don't understand what, to the fulliest anyway, what either of them mean. I should have jioned this group sooner when i first found out about it instead of waiting! ~Star~ > My students' insistence on this square/betrayal theory was one of the > reasons why I went back to my post-PoA H/H sentiment (admittedly, PoU > was the other)... so please don't think I'm planting information in > their heads. They have *no* idea that I'm such a fan... they just > know that I've read the books and taught using them. > > I've been trying all vacation to comb the books and find evidence of > Hermione's reciprocation of Ron's interest... I needed an "I knew I > liked you, Ron, when..." scenario. I'm finding I'm making up stuff. > > I don't think any H/H shipper on list has ever said that Harry thinks > of Hermione in canon at this point as anything other than one of his > two best friends. > > --Ebony > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com --------------------------------------------------- Get your free web based email from Crosswalk.com: http://mail.crosswalk.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 23:14:56 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:14:56 -0000 Subject: Let's be fair! (was the H/H kiss and other stuff . . .) In-Reply-To: <92ob51+vdjh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92oelg+vvfv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8237 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > And on to other things . . . > > I think discussing the H/H vs. H/R argument *is* > pointless. No matter how many logical arguments I and other H/R > supporters come up with it's never going to change the opinion of H/H supporters like Penny. What will happen is that both of us will > continue through the same cycle of arguments for or against the > pairings ad nauseum (is that spelled right?). And eventually, this > could easily lead to misunderstandings and possibly hurt feelings. > > I stated my reasons for preferring H/R (although I have no idea what message number that is) a few months ago and chose to leave it at that. There's a point in time when people just have to stop > discussing something; they need to agree to disagree. I think the > romance debate reached that point a long time ago. Therefore, I just don't post about it. > > That's why *this* Hermione/Ron fan isn't as vocal about it. And > hopefully this makes sense. It makes sense, but do you really think that it's fair to give others a virtual hand-slap because they enjoy this sort of discussion? I don't think that H/Hers are "louder" than R/Hers--what a blatant generalization. The list is certainly not pro-H/H. The only H/Hers that have *regularly* posted on this topic are Penny and myself. There are at least several H/H fanfic writers here who barely ever say anything at all. Also, I am more than a little tired of people complaining about the admittedly tedious romance debate, yet not saying a single word about the constantly rehashed Wand Order and Number of Students discussions. I've never participated in the Wand Order debate... the way the scene was written in the 1st ed. of GoF never bothered me. I always skip the number of students posts, because the debate never interested me--I formed my opinion long ago, and don't care to discuss it. Yet I don't question the right of other members to discuss issues of interest to *them*. That's what the "next" and "delete" keys on my browser are for. Ship preferences aside, Penny is one of the listmoms and has dedicated a lot of her time to make this forum an interesting and safe place for all points of view. Let's be fair, please. --Ebony From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 23:24:15 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 15:24:15 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Random Inconsistencies Message-ID: <20001231232415.6138.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8238 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 23:58:17 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 17:58:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Let's be fair! (was the H/H kiss and other stuff . ..) References: <92oelg+vvfv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4FC819.26EB363B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8239 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > It makes sense, but do you really think that it's fair to give others > a virtual hand-slap because they enjoy this sort of discussion? I agree with Ebony. There are plenty of topics that get bandied about on this group that I ignore because I'm uninterested, giving priority to other topics, unknowledgeable or sick to death of hashing & rehashing. We all have our interests, and I don't think it's "fair" to label a discussion "pointless" for all people who might be enjoying the debates. The shipper debates come & go in waves. I know because I wrote the FAQ on that topic, and the messages are grouped together in big lumps, usually with 2-3 months in between each big grouping. It's a pattern that I would imagine will likely continue. > I don't think that H/Hers are "louder" than R/Hers--what a blatant > generalization. The list is certainly not pro-H/H. The only H/Hers > that have *regularly* posted on this topic are Penny and myself. > There are at least several H/H fanfic writers here who barely ever > say anything at all. Yes, I agree with that too. To be honest, I think the R/H crowd has been considerably more vocal with the shipper debates the last couple of weeks than the H/H group. But, like Ebony said, that would be a generalization. I do think the list can hardly be classified as pro-H/H. The PoU list *is* pro-H/H by & large for obvious reasons, but this group seems pretty divided. The fact that my name is the only one that seems to get dredged up everytime some R/H person wants to make a point about the H/H arguments should tell us all that. Kathy wrote: > Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that you can't read all the H/H stuff into the books and then say there's "no" evidence > that Hermione could like Ron back. There's just as much evidence; you just have > to be willing to see it. > What I should have said is there is no *irrefutable* evidence that Hermione likes Ron back. It is, in my mind, irrefutable that Ron likes Hermione. It is likewise irrefutable that Harry has not expressed any romantic interest in Hermione. What is open to debate on all sides are Hermione's feelings. I think the arguments that she likes Ron are arguable, subject to more than one interpretation. Just like the "kiss" (and the other H/H evidence) is subject to more than one interpretation. I've merely been arguing my case more strongly. I *could* argue R/H if I chose to. I just think H/H is stronger -- that's all. I think Hermione's feelings can't be ignored in the equation, and her feelings are not exactly crystal clear at this point. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Dec 31 23:58:44 2000 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 15:58:44 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] the H/H kiss and other stuff . . . Message-ID: <20001231235844.21887.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8240 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From drmm at fuuko.com Sun Dec 31 21:51:46 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:51:46 -0600 Subject: The H/H kiss.... and other stuff Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001231152118.00a977f0@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8258 Er, this would be my take on the kiss that Hermione gives Harry in GoF. I can't see that it proves Hermione likes Harry. In fact, I would argue that it could prove she *doesn't* like Harry. I suspect that most (younger) girls would be very reluctant to kiss a guy they liked for fear that it would give away their secret crush. Therefore, when she kisses Harry she's not thinking from the POV of a girl with a crush, she's thinking from the POV of a friend and nothing more. I know I wouldn't have dreamed of it (although I admit I don't identify with Hermione much). And I don't know who posted this (I've been away) but that could explain why the girls in this persons class (or whatever it was) supported R/H rather than H/H. And on to other things . . . Someone a few weeks ago mentioned how the R/H shippers tend to be quieter than the H/H one and attributed this to the fact that the R/H supporters are less vocal. I'm an R/H supporter (although definatly not as um, obsessed? as some H/H fans). I don't have any problems being vocal about my opinions. Quite frankly I enjoy getting into discussions about disagreements and different opinions. However, I do think that there's a point in time when discussing different opinions becomes pointless. I think discussing the H/H vs. H/R argument *is* pointless. No matter how many logical arguments I and other H/R supporters come up with it's never going to change the opinion of H/H supporters like Penny. What will happen is that both of us will continue through the same cycle of arguments for or against the pairings ad nauseum (is that spelled right?). And eventually, this could easily lead to misunderstandings and possibly hurt feelings. I stated my reasons for preferring H/R (although I have no idea what message number that is) a few months ago and chose to leave it at that. There's a point in time when people just have to stop discussing something; they need to agree to disagree. I think the romance debate reached that point a long time ago. Therefore, I just don't post about it. That's why *this* Hermione/Ron fan isn't as vocal about it. And hopefully this makes sense. DrMM (who sometimes feels overwhelmed being in such a loud pro H/H environment) *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Magic Knight Rayearth OAV's From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 19:46:02 2000 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:46:02 -0500 Subject: Third time? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8302 Another number question from a newbie: When Voldemort hits Harry with the Imperius curse, it is the "third time" Harry has felt the blissful mindlessness (GoF, 661/US ed. "Priori Incantatem"). What was the second time? Moody put it on him, of course, which you can interpret as once or several times, but definitely not twice (GoF, 232/US ed. "Beauxbatons and Durmstrang"). Amy - - - - - - - - - - "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com