OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony

[naama]

No: HPFGUIDX 7211

Thanks Rita. A lot of what you wrote I didn't know. There's just one point that bothers me a 
bit, regarding the dating of Hannukkah. You say that it was "adopted as a holiday in order 
to compete with Persian/Zoroastrian celebration..", but at that time (Maccabbee rebellion) 
Judea was under Seleucid (that is, hellenic) rule. Was Persian culture still such a major 
influence on Jews in Judea?

Naama


--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" <catlady at w...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " <naama_gat at h...> wrote:
> 
> > BTW, It might come as a surprise to non-Jewish Americans, but
> > Hanukka is not an important holiday at all, really. Its been made a
> > lot of bc of its (completely coincidental) nearness to Christmas.
> 
> It's not really a COMPLETELY coincidental nearness to Xmas: both are 
> at times set by the Winter Solstice. I think it is no longer 
> controversial to say that, whenever Jesus ben Joseph's birthday is, 
> it is not in mid-winter (when shepherds are not watching their flocks 
> in the fields by night) but the Celebration was placed then in order 
> to compete with the Pagan celebration of Mithras's birthday on Winter 
> Solstice.
> 
> I'm afraid that it still is controversial to say that Hannukkah was 
> adopted as a holiday in order to compete with the Persian / 
> Zoraoastrian celebration of the Winter Solstice. How fortunate that 
> SOME historical event (the Maccabees re-conquering the Temple, as it 
> happens) occured at that time.
> 
> But the scholars spent 1900 or so years being VERY uncomfortable 
> about Hannukkah, because of the Maccabee connection. First, while 
> Judaea was 'under the heavy foot' of Rome, people liked to avoid the 
> subject of Maccabees altogether, because it was that dynasty which 
> had INVITED Rome to intervene (as their ally against Syria). Second, 
> after the Bar Kochkba rebellion, grown-ups did not want their 
> children listening to stories that would encourage them to rise up 
> against the imperial overlords in a doomed rebellion and get 
> themselves killed. Which is why emphasizing Judah Maccabee and 
> his brothers as successful freedom fighters throwing off colonial 
> rulers is a very twentieth (now twenti-first) century thing. Our 
> (our = baby boomers's) great-grandparents believed that the holiday 
> was ONLY about the MIRACULOUS OIL.