SV: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony

[Sara Ludwig]

No: HPFGUIDX 7237

Why not just celebrate the wonderful oil thing. 
catrina
  ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- 
  Från: naama 
  Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com 
  Skickat: den 18 december 2000 16:28
  Ämne: [HPforGrownups] OT Re: Hannukkah, was: Essays, OT:Ebony


  Thanks Rita. A lot of what you wrote I didn't know. There's just one point that bothers me a 
  bit, regarding the dating of Hannukkah. You say that it was "adopted as a holiday in order 
  to compete with Persian/Zoroastrian celebration..", but at that time (Maccabbee rebellion) 
  Judea was under Seleucid (that is, hellenic) rule. Was Persian culture still such a major 
  influence on Jews in Judea?

  Naama


  --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" <catlady at w...> wrote:
  > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " <naama_gat at h...> wrote:
  > 
  > > BTW, It might come as a surprise to non-Jewish Americans, but
  > > Hanukka is not an important holiday at all, really. Its been made a
  > > lot of bc of its (completely coincidental) nearness to Christmas.
  > 
  > It's not really a COMPLETELY coincidental nearness to Xmas: both are 
  > at times set by the Winter Solstice. I think it is no longer 
  > controversial to say that, whenever Jesus ben Joseph's birthday is, 
  > it is not in mid-winter (when shepherds are not watching their flocks 
  > in the fields by night) but the Celebration was placed then in order 
  > to compete with the Pagan celebration of Mithras's birthday on Winter 
  > Solstice.
  > 
  > I'm afraid that it still is controversial to say that Hannukkah was 
  > adopted as a holiday in order to compete with the Persian / 
  > Zoraoastrian celebration of the Winter Solstice. How fortunate that 
  > SOME historical event (the Maccabees re-conquering the Temple, as it 
  > happens) occured at that time.
  > 
  > But the scholars spent 1900 or so years being VERY uncomfortable 
  > about Hannukkah, because of the Maccabee connection. First, while 
  > Judaea was 'under the heavy foot' of Rome, people liked to avoid the 
  > subject of Maccabees altogether, because it was that dynasty which 
  > had INVITED Rome to intervene (as their ally against Syria). Second, 
  > after the Bar Kochkba rebellion, grown-ups did not want their 
  > children listening to stories that would encourage them to rise up 
  > against the imperial overlords in a doomed rebellion and get 
  > themselves killed. Which is why emphasizing Judah Maccabee and 
  > his brothers as successful freedom fighters throwing off colonial 
  > rulers is a very twentieth (now twenti-first) century thing. Our 
  > (our = baby boomers's) great-grandparents believed that the holiday 
  > was ONLY about the MIRACULOUS OIL.


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