H/H v H/R

[Scott]

No: HPFGUIDX 7593

Ok, I know I don't have much more to say on this topic but I'm 
dragging it our anyway. For clarification purposes this message is 
combining Penny's and Jim's...

Penny wrote:
"But, let's see what I can do .... the vehemence of the denial is 
actually, on reflection, more on Harry's part.  That was the point of 
Jim Flanagan's post earlier this week, and a point that I found 
interesting...Jim's point was that Harry may on a conscious or 
subconscious level have vehemently denied any feelings or attraction 
to Hermione as a defense mechanism, a mechanism he may employ with 
all other romantic entanglements until he's no longer a marked man.  
I think that's an interesting & valid point."

This is exactly what I think, and being a H/H shipper it's no suprise 
that I would argue this. But then why doesn't Harry view Cho in that 
same light. Why would he like to be involved with her but not 
Hermione. Perhaps viewing Hermione in the light of Friendship makes a 
difference. 

Jim wrote:
"I think that even at age 14 Harry would have developed strong 
feelings for Hermione, and 'just a friend' doesn't describe them. [I 
can testify to this with some authority, since I used to be a 14 year 
old boy: A girl with Hermione's intelligence and spirit is incredibly 
sexy.] So he was actively pushing her away, even against his own 
inclinations."

This sort of hits the nail on the head for me. I often wondered just 
WHY I was a H/H shipper and this is the best explanation. I'll admit 
that I'm a "bit" taken with Hermione. I agree with Jim 100% that 
Hermione's intelligence, spirit, and personality are VERY sexy (IMO 
more so than shallow beauty alone). However I don't know if that 
feeling is echoed by most boys my age (or Harry's)...So I guess my 
own feelings are what causes me to give (In My Mind) Harry and 
Hermione to each other. While it may never happen in the canon, I'm 
with Penny all the way on this one.


Penny wrote:
"The kiss in my mind is just possibly evidence of Hermione's feelings 
for Harry.  It's not straightforward by any means.  I don't think 
I've yet argued that it was.  I readily acknowledge it could very 
well be a red herring or just an insignificant detail that JKR threw 
in without any thought whatsoever.  But,  I do believe that (a) JKR 
emphasized the point (she could have just left it at "Hermione leaned 
up & kissed Harry on the cheek as they were saying goodbyes" - she 
needn't have added the "did something she'd never done before" bit), 
and (b) 14 yr old girls, in my experience, don't often take that sort 
of initiative.  I'm with Ebony's students -- I think there's more to 
it than "my best friend just went through this terrible tragedy."  
That might be all there is to it, but I'll go with the 14 yr olds 
with that one."

Is it at all possible that Hermione could also be holding back 
feelings for Harry.  I mean perhaps she thinks that Harry's attracted 
to her but she's not sure, thinking perhaps along the lines that 
Harry is afraid to show his feelings b/c of his situation.  Maybe she 
is making an effort to care about Harry from a distance as not to put 
him in an uncomfortable situation an not to offend Ron. 

Penny also wrote:
"OMG -- are we reading the same books?  Ron's "lack of intense 
ambition"????  He's *the* most ambitious character in the series in 
my book.  We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in GoF IMO.  He's 
far more ambitious than surface-level ambitious Percy.  Ron is 
incredibly insecure (I agree that Harry & Hermione have their own 
insecurities but Ron's insecurities are at least threefold what 
either H or H demonstrate). He's constantly trying to be better than 
everyone around him ... what was it he saw in the Mirror of Erised -- 
himself, standing alone, more successful & admired than any of his 
friends & family.  Well.... all I can say is we have a very different 
perspective on Ron.  I don't see him as stable, cheerful or 
unambitious.  Completely the opposite in my book.  Ron has lots of 
great qualities, but a healthy level of ambition is not one of them 
(IMO)."

I agree that Ron is quite ambitious, as much as, if not more than 
Percy. But Ron doesn't realise it. Does he? I mean he says that Percy 
would turn against the family (or something like that) as not to 
break the rules.  Percy knows what he wants and is actively trying to 
persue that goal. Ron however wants to be recognized but has no idea 
how to go about it. He doesn't even vent his ambition in a healthy 
way but instead bubbles with anger and burst out at his friends like 
a tea kettle left on a burner and forgotten. IMO at least Ron's type 
of ambition is far more dangerous. 

I too have to agree that I have a growing uneasiness about Ron. I 
wonder 
if he, like Edmund in the Narnia Books will become the tratior and 
something of an allegorical Judas (despite the fact that the HP books 
aren't exactly a Christian allegory.)

Scott

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"I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in 
fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your 
mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the 
here and now?  Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John 
Lennon 

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