[HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/ Definition of "Shipper" & "Mary Sue"

[Peg Kerr]

No: HPFGUIDX 7764

Note: I'm over 550 messages behind, and I suppose I'll annoy people by
posting answers to messages which were discussed exhaustively and dismissed
days ago, but I 'm just going to send these out; and anyway, I wanted to
wish you all a happy holidays.  Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, blessed
Solstice; whatever is your holiday of choice!  We had dinner at my
brother-in-law's last night, and there were crackers for the children, prime
rib, and Yorkshire pudding, and it made me think of all of you!

Peg

Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote:

> Hi --
>
> naama wrote:
>
> > You know, Ebony, you really hit a nerve here. Only when I read this
> > I realized I have an uncomfortable feeling about Ron too. I'm not
> > sure it arises from the same reason, though. I think its more because
> > of his relative nondescriptness. Hermione is very well defined and
> > rounded, IMO, and Harry is also, of course. Isn't Ron a little ... I
> > don't know how do describe it - pale, maybe. He's Harry's friend more
> > than he is his own person. Even when he has negative feelings they
> > are related to Harry (his jealousy of him in GoF). Am I the only one
> > to feel this way?
>
> Well, I'd agree more with Ebony that my own discomfort with Ron has to
> do with my growing unease that he may be susceptible to betrayal of
> Harry because of all his insecurities & envy.  And, like Ebony, I guess
> I don't have much sympathy for his troubles.  He has a loving family &
> plenty of talents of his own if he'd quit worrying about what everyone
> else has.  I think he's the weak link.

I don't quite see it yet.  I'm reserving judgment.  I see it more as Ron
being an adolescent, trying to figure out his own place in the world.  And
as for the idea that Ron is the "weak link" I don't yet see any sign that
he'd be tempted by anything that the dark side could offer.

>  Also - who the he.. on earth is Mary Sue?
>
> A "Mary Sue" is an original character in a work of fanfiction who
> essentially steals the show and gets the preferred romantic pairing (if
> the fanfic author has H/H tendencies, the "Mary Sue" character would win
> Harry's heart).  I think I'm explaining that one correctly, but someone
> should correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Penny

I also see a Mary Sue character as being a fanfic's writer's attempt to
write herself into the story and go off with the main character.  Which is
why I was a bit perplexed by Ebony's assertion here:

"Hermione is not really a "Mary Sue" (as we term the concept in fanfic).
She is rather a symbol (or a sign, if you want to be technical about
it--that's what in my notes) of JKR in the story.  I've heard her called  a
"surrogate". Simply put, she is a place for the author herself to
enter the story milieu and resolve some of the Freudian/Lacanian conflicts
she faces."

If Ebony is correct, that Hermione is the symbol of JKR in the story, and
the story is constructed so that she longs for Harry, then to me, that means
the Hermione IS a Mary Sue character, Q.E.D.  Would like a fuller
explanation from Ebony as to why she thinks Hermione ISN'T a Mary Sue.

Peg