The Ron thread: Misc. comments

[drmm at fuuko.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 4960

I hate my e-mail I hate my e-mail I hate my e-mail (I tried to send 
this post four times from my account and it wouldn't go through -- so 
it's coming from the web version).

As I'd be sending in fifty e-mails if I responded to everything I 
wanted too I'm combining a bunch into one. . . 

Simon wrote: <<Lucius is not the only one to say that Hermione is top 
of the class. It is mentioned at other time throughout the books, but 
I am sure that not one of those occasions is because Hermione has 
mentioned it.

I see Hermione as being insecure. The reason she seems to know all the
answers is because she works hard. She seems to work hard because she 
has a large fear of failure. She shows the obsessive 'I am going to 
fail' when
revising for exams. She has got better by GoF, but still spends most 
of her
time working and feeling that she has to put that work in. I get the
impression that Hermione believes that because she has become top of 
the
class she must now work very hard to maintain that position and she 
would be very upset if she did not remain as the top student.

Another problem I have with Hermione is that she is constantly trying 
to
organize the others. In PS she draws up revision timetables for them. 
She
nags at Harry when he is not working towards the tasks in GoF. Yes I 
know
that Ron and Harry do need convincing to do their work, but at the end 
of
the day it is their decision and they should be left to choose about 
how
much they do.>>

I'm glad someone else besides me agrees that Hermione is insecure, and 
that's one of the main reasons why she's so insistant on being at the 
top . . . And I love the example you provide.  It is Ron and Harry's 
choice.  While I'm sure Hermione doesn't want her friends to fail, her 
concern crosses into "nagging" which is, um, obnoxious.

Simon wrote <snip>: <<Hopefully he will get some opportunity to show 
his Quidditch ability in the future. His build suggests that he may be 
a good keeper. His seems to have good logical reasoning and forward 
thought to work out what moves others will take. On top of this he is 
tall which makes reaching the Quaffle much easier. There is a space in 
that position - so who knows - Ron for Gryffindor keeper.>>

As I think I said yesterday . . . I like this idea.  I think Ron's 
ability for chess strategy would transfer well to Quidditch.  He has 
an in-depth knowledge of the game already and I would love to see him 
use this in some way . . .

Simon wrote: <<I disagree here. I think all three suffer from 
childhood insecurities and I think that they all can grow out of these 
insecurities. Ron just needs an opportunity to realise he does have 
talents and is good at something - it just remains to be seen what 
this skill is.>>

Um, I agree :)

Norevoli wrote: <<If not speaking to each other is equivalent to being
obnoxious then Harry has had his moments too. How about that whole 
fiasco
with Crookshanks. Although the fight was primarily between Ron and 
Hermione Harry totally sided with Ron. I didn't see Harry trying to 
get the two of them to reconcile (like Hermione does in GoF by trying 
to get the two of
them to talk to each other).">>

Actually, the time I found Harry most obnoxious fight-wise is during 
the fight when Hermione told Prof. McGonagall about the Firebolt.  The 
Crookshanks fight was mainly between Ron and Hermione, although Harry 
clearly sided with Ron.  When they fought over Hermione turning the 
Firebolt in, Harry is equally as angry as Ron is, despite knowing that 
Hermione was only concerned for his safety.  It's only when Harry gets 
his Firebolt back before the Quidditch match that he's willing to make 
up with Hermione.  Oh, and before anyone jumps on me . . . Ron is just 
as bad :).

I've been going off on the flaws I see in Harry and Hermione, so now 
I'll mention that Ron's biggest flaw, IMO, is his temper.  I find his 
insecurity perfectly natural, and although it can be irritating at 
times, I understand it.  I also think Ron will grow out of his temper 
to a certain extent.  I had the worst temper as a child (I'm sure my 
family would agree) so I also understand it to a  certain extent.  
When you have that tendency it takes time to learn how to control it. 
 I learned how and I'm sure Ron will too :)  And, I might add, Ron 
probably inherited this from his father.  When Lucius insults him in 
CoS Mr. Weasly acted just as Ron does when Draco insults him . . . 
gosh, now I'm convinced Ron and Mr. Weasley are a lot alike . . .

Susan wrote: <<And I may be even more verbose.......Harry does have 
some effects from the emotional trauma/abuse of the Dursleys (although 
I think
many of us agreed that he didn't have as much as he would have in 
real life, given that he had NO support, and NO role models while 
with the Dursleys. In real life, abused kids who do well are found by
or find a teacher, older friend, or several who support them and
give them hope).  Also, some abused kids react by being perfect and 
overachieving (ah, says the Sorting Hat, a nice thirst to prove 
yourself). Harry has a hard time trusting adults, confiding in 
adults, and believing that adults will ever give him a fair shake 
(Snape doesn't help). He is slowly beginning to trust Sirius, Molly,
and Dumbledore. He trusts Hagrid more immediately (imo) because 
Hagrid is himself different and outcaste, and does not have a lot of
power.>>

Interesting point . . . I'd always considered Harry's difficulty 
trusting adults to be part of the normal childhood paranoia that 
adults are out to get you (I wasn't the only one, right? <g>).  
However, I suppose it could be part of the reason . . . I also think 
part of that's just Harry's personality though.

<<I like Ron, myself, but I also like Hermione. She stops being 
obnoxious and gets less and less obnoxious as the books go on and she 
matures. She wants to succeed, and will do that through book learning.
However, she starts breaking rules, and is terrific about supporting 
her friends. I think she's a great person and don't understand Dr MM
why you don't like her. She supports Harry, but more importantly 
doesn't take advantage of their split to ingratiate herself with one
or the other, she tries to get them to be friends again.>>

ARGH!  I *don't* dislike Hermione; I just don't identify with her but 
that doesn't mean I don't like her.  Just to make sure everyone 
understands, I think Hermione is a good, intelligent, well-meaning 
person.  I'm just attempting to point out what I see as her greatest 
character flaw.  In my opinion, her constant display of her academic 
prowess in front of classes is obnoxious.    And, as I've stated many 
times, as the books progress, she matures and displays less and less 
of this tendency.

<<I also object to the characterization of Molly Weasley as a pushy 
and 
obnoxious mother. She has her flaws, absolutely...but she is the ONLY
one in the family who is positive about Percy (who after all, is 
trying to do everything right)..her other flaw is her silly crush on 
Lockhart.....

But she is a great and wonderful mother...she and Arthur have created 
a warm, loving environment for their children. It's no easy task 
raising six children (anyone else know the song about Agnes? Lovely 
Anges who raised them strongwilled and kind). The Burrows is a fun 
and warm and secure place to be. She worries about her kids, and 
reminds them of their duties, because that's her role. She also loves
them tremendously, which is why Harry turns to her at the end of GofF
for care and reassurance. NO MOLLY BASHING!>>

I'm bashing Molly?  <sigh>  I think you're misinterpreting me.  I 
think she's a good mother who loves her kids tremendously.  When I 
said she was "pushy and overbearing" I was trying to point out 
something I see as a character flaw.  She's only pushy and overbearing 
when it comes to seeing her kids succeed.  She wants them to succed, 
which is a good thing.  I think she goes about it the wrong way. As 
for Percy. . . yes, she's proud of him, and has good reasons for it.  
However, by comparing Fred, George and Ron to him, she's entering a 
dangerous arena.  It can create *huge* amounts of friction between 
siblings.  I suspect part of the reason Fred & George are so 
antagonistic towards Percy (besides the fact that he's a prick <g>) is 
that Mrs. Weasly is always trying to get them to be more like him.

Susan wrote: <<What so Hermione should censor herself so that the 
boys, oops, other classmates don't feel bad and have a chance to 
answer the questions?

it's the teacher's responsibility not to call on the smartest/best
prepared student and equalize the answers. The student's 
responsibility is to answer the questions.>>

This has nothing to do with gender.  If Hermione was male, I'd see the 
exact same character flaws.  My entire point with the quote was to 
illustrate that Hermione doesn't give anyone *time* to volunteer.  She 
raises her hand and two seconds later blurts out the answer (that's 
how I read it anyway).  She doesn't give Prof. Sprout time to nod and 
say "Yes, Hermione," or call on someone else.

Susan wrote: <<Dr MM I'm afraid I must suggest that you have problems 
with females.  Sounds like your older sister intimidated you.>>

I'm not sure how you interpreted my issues with Hermione into having 
problems with females . . . Just to make sure everyone knows. . . I 
consider myself a moderate feminist.  I have one problem with the 
character, not with women in general.  If Hermione was a male 
character I'd feel the exact same way.

Some people interpret her actions as her having a stong, assertive 
nature; I interpret them as showing a deeper insecurity and a desire 
for praise in the academic environment that I find obnoxious.  <shrug> 
If you have a different opinion, that's fine.  This is just my view.

DrMM